Rutgers student filmed having sex commits suicide, 2 charged with filming

[Earlshog]

In a case of video voyeurism gone high-tech, a pair of Rutgers University freshmen secretly placed a camera in a dorm room earlier this month and broadcast a live feed of a fellow student’s "sexual encounter" on the internet, police said Tuesday.

New York Post is reporting the victim has commited suicide



http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/charged_with_taping_rutgers_student_9G3XCTxdLoZ3VP JNyk8spO

[TjM]

In a case of video voyeurism gone high-tech, a pair of Rutgers University freshmen secretly placed a camera in a dorm room earlier this month and broadcast a live feed of a fellow student’s "sexual encounter" on the internet, police said Tuesday.

New York Post is reporting the victim has commited suicide



http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/charged_with_taping_rutgers_student_9G3XCTxdLoZ3VP JNyk8spO


:wallbash::wallbash:

Obamawho

09/29/2010 10:12 AM

I watched all the kids commenting on the Video tape above. All they spoke of was the invasion of privacy and the nerve of the perps. for putting it on the Internet. Not one word of the act itself being wrong, and what was a girl doing in a boy's dormitory room alone . But with todays liberalism and moral decline , I wouldn't expect anyone to even know what fornication or adultery is , let alone know it's wrong. And to be a Virgin today means to be held in disdain and to be ridiculed. What a Society . And we're going to try to win the entire world over to our way of thinking ? Well we've got as much chance of that happening as we have of making Obama admit he's a Muslim.


Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/charged_with_taping_rutgers_student_9G3XCTxdLoZ3VP JNyk8spO#ixzz10vbvg8xU

I give us 5 years tops before we implode. Too many fucking idiots think like this guy

[Earlshog]

:wallbash::wallbash:



I give us 5 years tops before we implode. Too many fucking idiots think like this guy

I take it this fella will not be at the march to reinstall sanity

[biggestmexi]

pics or it didnt happen

[TjM]

Fornication Is Wrong!!!!

[Earlshog]

pics or it didnt happen

:laugh: thanks for picking up the slack while Jezo is in London...

[Willmore]

Fornication Is Wrong!!!!

Fez is a modern-day saint.

[Serpico1103]

:wallbash::wallbash:



I give us 5 years tops before we implode. Too many fucking idiots think like this guy

He had to mention Liberalism.
He misses how close his ideas are to those of radical Muslims.

Just read the article. It was a guy who committed suicide. Sexist in me just figured it was a girl. Was it straight sex? Or was he worried about parents finding out?

[TjM]

He had to mention Liberalism.
He misses how close his ideas are to those of radical Muslims.

Just read the article. It was a guy who committed suicide. Sexist in me just figured it was a girl. Was it straight sex? Or was he worried about parents finding out?

Had to be gay. Why would a dude kill himself if people knew he banged a chick :blink:

[Judge Smails]

Had to be gay. Why would a dude kill himself if people knew he banged a chick :blink:

Fat chick?

[Fallon]

Had to be gay. Why would a dude kill himself if people knew he banged a chick :blink:





pics or it didnt happen

Ewww.

[TjM]

Fat chick?

Wouldn't matter he could go with the Drunk and Horny defense

[Willmore]

Had to be gay. Why would a dude kill himself if people knew he banged a chick :blink:

Have you seen the chick?

http://www.ronfez.net/gallery//watermark.php?file=3820

[Serpico1103]

It is a really fucked up move, to videotape someone without their knowledge having sex, and then post it on the internet. Show it to some friends, eh, just douchey, but to put it on the internet, complete asshole move.

[Jujubees2]

Had to be gay. Why would a dude kill himself if people knew he banged a chick :blink:

Fat chick?

Small penis?

[TjM]

Small penis?

How could they tell on a hidden cam what was it a 6 camera porn shoot?

[Earlshog]

Had to be gay. Why would a dude kill himself if people knew he banged a chick :blink:

Its early and its obviously just speculation but could he have been in on it and was scared of the consequences?

[TjM]

Its early and its obviously just speculation but could he have been in on it and was scared of the consequences?

Not a bad theory.

[angrymissy]

It was gay sex according to Gawker

http://gawker.com/5651050/how-a-college-kid-livestreamed-his-roommate-having-gay-sex-possibly-causing-a-suicide

http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/7/2010/09/dharun3.jpg

[Serpico1103]

Gay sex was the most likely reason.

He might be faking his suicide just to get revenge on the assholes. Either way I hope the guys get heavy sentences. Punish them and maybe discourage more of this nonsense.

I wonder if the prison will broadcast their gay sex.

[TripleSkeet]

Yes its a dick move and an invasion of privacy. I just dont know how I feel about these guys getting charged with something like murder and getting heavy jail sentences. I mean Im sure they didnt expect that to happen.

If someone is so sensitive about their feelings they could kill themselves over a humiliation is it really right to give the guys doing the teasin jail time?

My point is if these guys get jail time it should be the same amount of time they wouldve gotten if this kid wouldve found out, went to the cops, and pressed charges. The suicide should have nothing to do with it. They shouldnt go to jail because a kid couldnt handle embarrassment.

[TjM]

Yes its a dick move and an invasion of privacy. I just dont know how I feel about these guys getting charged with something like murder and getting heavy jail sentences. I mean Im sure they didnt expect that to happen.

If someone is so sensitive about their feelings they could kill themselves over a humiliation is it really right to give the guys doing the teasin jail time?

My point is if these guys get jail time it should be the same amount of time they wouldve gotten if this kid wouldve found out, went to the cops, and pressed charges. The suicide should have nothing to do with it. They shouldnt go to jail because a kid couldnt handle embarrassment.

I think a fear of being outed is a wee bit different than that

[Zorro]

I think a fear of being outed is a wee bit different than that

It's 2010. Why is "outed" still in the vernacular?

[sailor]

Yes its a dick move and an invasion of privacy. I just dont know how I feel about these guys getting charged with something like murder and getting heavy jail sentences. I mean Im sure they didnt expect that to happen.

If someone is so sensitive about their feelings they could kill themselves over a humiliation is it really right to give the guys doing the teasin jail time?

My point is if these guys get jail time it should be the same amount of time they wouldve gotten if this kid wouldve found out, went to the cops, and pressed charges. The suicide should have nothing to do with it. They shouldnt go to jail because a kid couldnt handle embarrassment.

you can get charged with murder for a heart attack (http://jonathanturley.org/2009/01/30/robber-charged-with-murder-after-elderly-lady-has-heart-attack/). their actions led to his death. don't know if it will hold up, but "they didn't expect it to happen" is hardly a defense.

[TjM]

It's 2010. Why is "outed" still in the vernacular?

True. Everyone is very accepting these days

[Dude!]

True. Everyone is very accepting these days

um, not everyone

maybe the kids parents
wouldn't have been

[terry-c]

um, not everyone

maybe the kids parents
wouldn't have been

pretty sure this was said with a sarcastic tone...A country that does not allow gay marriages and is still on the fence about whether a soldier can live his life in the open is FAR from accepting.

[Serpico1103]

Yes its a dick move and an invasion of privacy. I just dont know how I feel about these guys getting charged with something like murder and getting heavy jail sentences. I mean Im sure they didnt expect that to happen.

If someone is so sensitive about their feelings they could kill themselves over a humiliation is it really right to give the guys doing the teasin jail time?

My point is if these guys get jail time it should be the same amount of time they wouldve gotten if this kid wouldve found out, went to the cops, and pressed charges. The suicide should have nothing to do with it. They shouldnt go to jail because a kid couldnt handle embarrassment.

you can get charged with murder for a heart attack (http://jonathanturley.org/2009/01/30/robber-charged-with-murder-after-elderly-lady-has-heart-attack/). their actions led to his death. don't know if it will hold up, but "they didn't expect it to happen" is hardly a defense.

They are being charged with the invasion of privacy. As far as I know they are not being charged for the kid's death.
It is similar to the cyber-bullying case where the 13 yo girl killed herself because of Myspace harassment. I don't think they will be charged for the death, but it will make their current charges harder to plea down. What might have been a slap on the wrist for first time offenders, taken as a stupid prank, will now be taken very seriously.

[Snacks]

Yes its a dick move and an invasion of privacy. I just dont know how I feel about these guys getting charged with something like murder and getting heavy jail sentences. I mean Im sure they didnt expect that to happen.

If someone is so sensitive about their feelings they could kill themselves over a humiliation is it really right to give the guys doing the teasin jail time?

My point is if these guys get jail time it should be the same amount of time they wouldve gotten if this kid wouldve found out, went to the cops, and pressed charges. The suicide should have nothing to do with it. They shouldnt go to jail because a kid couldnt handle embarrassment.

I agree, total fucked up move to do that to your roommate but I would bet this isnt the 1st time this has happened in a college dorm room now days. I would guess they could say they left it on by accident or couldnt the roommate say he thought someone was stealing from him room and to his surprise all his video showed was gay sex? Im not saying he isnt wrong but how can they arrest someone for video taping their own dorm room? How many times do we see video from some random store that shows people doing something? These people dont sign off on using a video of them?

[Snacks]

They are being charged with the invasion of privacy. As far as I know they are not being charged for the kid's death.
It is similar to the cyber-bullying case where the 13 yo girl killed herself because of Myspace harassment. I don't think they will be charged for the death, but it will make their current charges harder to plea down. What might have been a slap on the wrist for first time offenders, taken as a stupid prank, will now be taken very seriously.

I guess that makes sense. I just hate when something happens and we always need to blame/charge someone when someone else kills themselves. Teasing bullying is awful. But everyone has gone through it no matter who you are and no matter how popular you were. We need to teach our kids about teasing and bullying but we also need to stop babying kids and teach them to toughen up and grow some thicker skin.

[Serpico1103]

I agree, total fucked up move to do that to your roommate but I would bet this isnt the 1st time this has happened in a college dorm room now days. I would guess they could say they left it on by accident or couldnt the roommate say he thought someone was stealing from him room and to his surprise all his video showed was gay sex? Im not saying he isnt wrong but how can they arrest someone for video taping their own dorm room? How many times do we see video from some random store that shows people doing something? These people dont sign off on using a video of them?

The kid announced he was going to live stream the "action" beforehand online. Had he only videotaped it, he probably would be ok, it would be seen as a prank. But, announcing it beforehand, and then live streaming, turns it into a serious invasion of privacy.http://gawker.com/5651050/how-a-college-kid-livestreamed-his-roommate-having-gay-sex-possibly-causing-a-suicide?skyline=true&s=i

[Dude!]

We need to teach our kids about teasing and bullying but we also need to stop babying kids and teach them to toughen up and grow some thicker skin.

this was not teasing
or bullying

there is a huge difference
between teasing a guy
by calling him a fag

and videotaping him
having sex with a man
and then showing it
to the WORLD

[Morken]

We need to teach our kids about teasing and bullying but we also need to stop babying kids and teach them to toughen up and grow some thicker skin. You're right...but that doesn't apply in this case. In this case, a clear breach of privacy and a purposeful action in trying to humiliate, took place.

The gay community needs to get their shit together. People shouldn't have to feel embarrassed to be gay in todays American. Sure, not everyone is going to accept it on the outside, but people who are gay themselves are the important aspects who need to learn to accept who they are.

Just as I get on liberals for their terrible views on race in this country, I am equally disgusted with conservatives for their views on homosexuality. This sub-culture of constant judging is ridiculous!

[Serpico1103]

Just as I JUDGE liberals for their terrible views on race in this country, I am equally JUDGMENTAL with conservatives for their views on homosexuality. This sub-culture of constant judging is ridiculous!

Keep up the good work.

[Zorro]

this was not teasing
or bullying

there is a huge difference
between teasing a guy
by calling him a fag

and videotaping him
having sex with a man
and then showing it
to the WORLD

So, if it were sex with a woman it would be ok?

[Dude!]

So, if it were sex with a woman it would be ok?

no, it would NOT be OK

[Serpico1103]

So, if it were sex with a woman it would be ok?

At least than I would want to see the evidence.

[TjM]

um, not everyone

maybe the kids parents
wouldn't have been

YOU!?

YOU OF ALL FUCKING PEOPLE DIDN'T GET THAT?!! :blink:

[Tenbatsuzen]

Knowing Middlesex county prosecutors, and knowing that Plainsboro and Princeton residents can afford very good lawyers, they better have a fucking airtight case if they move for some sort of manslaughter charge.

I'm still trying to figure out what the girl has to do with it. Outside of the punk using her computer... was she just an accessory?

I'm wondering if the media is going to go after the hate crime angle, the cyberbullying angle, or both.

No matter what, it's a black eye for Rutgers. Here's a university whose professors made a big stink that the football players are getting all the money while they best and brightest students are suffering, meanwhile an Engineering and Pharmacy student do this.

Another thing that bothers me about this, totally unrelated:

Lets say the girl had nothing really to do with this. Her name has been dragged completely in the mud, and if someone googles her down the road, all these results will pop up. It'll NEVER GO AWAY.

For some reason, that bothers me about the criminal justice system, the media, and the internet..

[Snacks]

Knowing Middlesex county prosecutors, and knowing that Plainsboro and Princeton residents can afford very good lawyers, they better have a fucking airtight case if they move for some sort of manslaughter charge.

I'm still trying to figure out what the girl has to do with it. Outside of the punk using her computer... was she just an accessory?

I'm wondering if the media is going to go after the hate crime angle, the cyberbullying angle, or both.

No matter what, it's a black eye for Rutgers. Here's a university whose professors made a big stink that the football players are getting all the money while they best and brightest students are suffering, meanwhile an Engineering and Pharmacy student do this.

Another thing that bothers me about this, totally unrelated:

Lets say the girl had nothing really to do with this. Her name has been dragged completely in the mud, and if someone googles her down the road, all these results will pop up. It'll NEVER GO AWAY.

For some reason, that bothers me about the criminal justice system, the media, and the internet..

I have been saying this for years especially about rape cases. Maybe crimes shouldnt be reported to the media til after the cases are tried or plead out? It will allow for better jury selection and a jury that wont have read shit about cases or prejudge a case before going to trial. It will also prevent falsely accused people from having their lives ruined. We all no even people found no guilty still have people that will never believe them and no matter what will treat them like criminals.

[Serpico1103]

Knowing Middlesex county prosecutors, and knowing that Plainsboro and Princeton residents can afford very good lawyers, they better have a fucking airtight case if they move for some sort of manslaughter charge.

I'm still trying to figure out what the girl has to do with it. Outside of the punk using her computer... was she just an accessory?

I'm wondering if the media is going to go after the hate crime angle, the cyberbullying angle, or both.

No matter what, it's a black eye for Rutgers. Here's a university whose professors made a big stink that the football players are getting all the money while they best and brightest students are suffering, meanwhile an Engineering and Pharmacy student do this.

Another thing that bothers me about this, totally unrelated:

Lets say the girl had nothing really to do with this. Her name has been dragged completely in the mud, and if someone googles her down the road, all these results will pop up. It'll NEVER GO AWAY.

For some reason, that bothers me about the criminal justice system, the media, and the internet..

They won't try for any sort of homicide charge.
The girl was part of the "conspiracy", she might have a chance at leniency.
I doubt they will charge them with a hate crime, he didn't use any slurs, it didn't seem out of hate, more out of childishness. I don't know if they have a cyber-bullying statute there.

The internet makes the publication of identities it worse. Our society is advancing technologically faster than our the rest of our culture.

[TripleSkeet]

you can get charged with murder for a heart attack (http://jonathanturley.org/2009/01/30/robber-charged-with-murder-after-elderly-lady-has-heart-attack/). their actions led to his death. don't know if it will hold up, but "they didn't expect it to happen" is hardly a defense.

Thats not the same thing. That man put so much fear into the woman her heart gave out. HE did that to her, she didnt do it to herself.

Im not saying the kids arent complete dickholes and dont deserve to be punished, but the bottom line is a suicide is a suicide. Not Murder.

And I dont care what the reason, gay, parents wont accept you, feeling humiliated, I just could never condone suicide. I know its not a popular opinion or one that alot of people agree with but I just look at suicide as an act of cowardice. Its the ultimate copout. It just seems like such a selfish wasteful act to me. But hey, thats just my opinion.

Im glad they are being prosecuted for invasion of privacy though, they definitely deserve a punishment for that.

[PapaBear]

At the very least, the guy will be a financial failure for the rest of his life. I'd think a civil suit would be a cinch to win.

[Melk]

The people who conspired to stream this guy's sexual encounter are responsible for the consequences of the victim's emotional response in the same way that a person who causes a sickly person to have a heart attack by threatening him with a fake pistol. You cannot judge the physical or emotional health of anyone you bully. If the victim is able to cope with your abuse, great.

[Death Metal Moe]

It's 2010. Why is "outed" still in the vernacular?

Mostly because of this dogshit:

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp95/tobinobin/Religion_by_StarDragon77.jpg

Strike religion down where ever you find it.

[NewYorkDragons80]

The kid announced he was going to live stream the "action" beforehand online. Had he only videotaped it, he probably would be ok, it would be seen as a prank. But, announcing it beforehand, and then live streaming, turns it into a serious invasion of privacy.http://gawker.com/5651050/how-a-college-kid-livestreamed-his-roommate-having-gay-sex-possibly-causing-a-suicide?skyline=true&s=i

Clearly a fucked up move, but I have no time for people who say this should be a "hate" crime. Does anyone else think that position for gay rights groups is self-defeating? Did anyone stop to think this kid was deeply troubled before he was caught on tape fooling around with a member of the same sex?

[Drew85]

Clearly a fucked up move, but I have no time for people who say this should be a "hate" crime. Does anyone else think that position for gay rights groups is self-defeating? Did anyone stop to think this kid was deeply troubled before he was caught on tape fooling around with a member of the same sex?

He could of been, but the gawker one I read and statement from the family seemed he had a good friends and family, it could of been just the embarrassment just made him go overboard.

There's been a few other deaths this month..

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/7220896.html

http://www.lgbtqnation.com/2010/09/gay-teen-dies-after-10-days-on-life-support-following-suicide-attempt-over-anti-gay-bullying/

[TjM]

Speaking of tolerance

http://gawker.com/5651222/deranged-attorney-general-harassing-radical-gay-student-body-president

[Drew85]

Speaking of tolerance

http://gawker.com/5651222/deranged-attorney-general-harassing-radical-gay-student-body-president

I read about that the other day, I'm not sure how this guy isn't in trouble?

Back to this story, just awful all around.

[Melk]

Did anyone stop to think this kid was deeply troubled before he was caught on tape fooling around with a member of the same sex?

Are you suggesting that if the victim was mentally unstable that the bullying party is not guilty?

Who records someone having sex and distributes the recording to a mass audience against the wishes of the participants without meaning to cause the recorded party harm?

Is it a hate crime? That is up to the legal system to decide. But this recording was not made in that guy's better interests.

[Melk]

Speaking of tolerance

http://gawker.com/5651222/deranged-attorney-general-harassing-radical-gay-student-body-president
The Anderson Cooper clip made me laugh harder than I have laughed in a long time. Buster Bluth should just come out of the closet and embrace his secret.

[TripleSkeet]

The people who conspired to stream this guy's sexual encounter are responsible for the consequences of the victim's emotional response in the same way that a person who causes a sickly person to have a heart attack by threatening him with a fake pistol. You cannot judge the physical or emotional health of anyone you bully. If the victim is able to cope with your abuse, great.

No. Its not the same thing.

Spin it all you want but in one instance a person is causing uncontrolled physical harm to another person through fear. You cant stop yourself from having a heart attack.

The other instance is a guy that was humiliated and CHOSE to end his life rather then go on. The kids are responsible for his humiliation, hes responsible for his death.


By your way of thinking if a guy gets fired and kills himself because he considers himself a failure and an embarrassment to his family, the boss should go to jail.

[Dude!]

By your way of thinking if a guy gets fired and kills himself because he considers himself a failure and an embarrassment to his family, the boss should go to jail.

the act that resulted
in the suicide
was illegal

firing an employee is not
(generally)

[Serpico1103]

The people who conspired to stream this guy's sexual encounter are responsible for the consequences of the victim's emotional response in the same way that a person who causes a sickly person to have a heart attack by threatening him with a fake pistol. You cannot judge the physical or emotional health of anyone you bully. If the victim is able to cope with your abuse, great.

Courts generally do not hold people responsible for another's suicide, except in limited exceptions; they aided in the suicide, they were legally responsible for the person's well-being and in some employment situations.
In this case, I think the victim had tweeted, or made some online comments, that he knew about the first time his roommate videoed him. So, the roommate could not reasonably think doing it again would cause him to commit suicide, when his reaction to the first was so mild.
Suicide is seen as intervening act, breaking the chain of causation.

The two are responsible in a way, and I am sure they will suffer consequences, but they will not be charged with his suicide.

[Serpico1103]

The Anderson Cooper clip made me laugh harder than I have laughed in a long time. Buster Bluth should just come out of the closet and embrace his secret.

Wow, another self-hating Christian homosexual. How does he still have his job?

[Dude!]

How does he still have his job?

no matter where one
stands politically
that is a good question

what an idiot!

[Serpico1103]

no matter where one
stands politically
that is a good question

what an idiot!

I have no problem with him being against the student body president's policies. It is his tactics that are frightening. Using the Nazi symbol, standing outside his house, calling him racist, and Satan's representative. Even if they were both running for the same office, it would be crazy behavior, but he is doing it as a "concerned" alumni.
The college kid should get a restraining order. I see a murder suicide coming. I hope it is a suicide-murder.

[TjM]

I have no problem with him being against the student body president's policies. It is his tactics that are frightening. Using the Nazi symbol, standing outside his house, calling him racist, and Satan's representative. Even if they were both running for the same office, it would be crazy behavior, but he is doing it as a "concerned" alumni.
The college kid should get a restraining order. I see a murder suicide coming. I hope it is a suicide-murder.

I love the extreme right wing nutjobs "Recruiting Homosexuals" theory. UNCLE LANCE/BRUCE WANTS YOU!!! TO JOIN THE MAUVE ARMY!!! :laugh:

Fucking idiots

[Dude!]

I love the extreme right wing nutjobs "Recruiting Homosexuals" theory. UNCLE LANCE/BRUCE WANTS YOU!!! TO JOIN THE MAUVE ARMY!!! :laugh:

Fucking idiots

you tried to recruit me

[Serpico1103]

I love the extreme right wing nutjobs "Recruiting Homosexuals" theory. UNCLE LANCE/BRUCE WANTS YOU!!! TO JOIN THE MAUVE ARMY!!! :laugh:

Fucking idiots

Is there a sign-on bonus? Just asking.

[TjM]

you tried to recruit me

I tried to LOVE you! :glurps:

[Jujubees2]

I love the extreme right wing nutjobs "Recruiting Homosexuals" theory. UNCLE LANCE/BRUCE WANTS YOU!!! TO JOIN THE MAUVE ARMY!!! :laugh:

Fucking idiots

Is there a sign-on bonus? Just asking.

Will they send me somewhere special to train?

[TjM]

Will they send me somewhere special to train?


Provincetown or San Fran

[Jujubees2]

Will they send me somewhere special to train?

Provincetown or San Fran

Oh, then sign me up!

[newport king]

The Anderson Cooper clip made me laugh harder than I have laughed in a long time. Buster Bluth should just come out of the closet and embrace his secret.

did i hear anderson cooper correctly and this guy's boss's name is mike cox???

come on!!

[Serpico1103]

did i hear anderson cooper correctly and this guy's boss's name is mike cox???

come on!!

Yes, but the guy's name is Mike Smith. I guess Cooper had Cox on his mind.

[Dude!]

Yes, but the guy's name is Mike Smith. I guess Cooper had Cox on his mind.

wow...that's unbelievable

same guy who turned
the "Tea Party" into "teabaggers"

'cause of all the balls
he's sucked on

[Earlshog]

http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/09/30/new.jersey.student.suicide/index.html?hpt=T1&iref=BN1


The New York City Medical Examiner's office said Thursday that a body recovered a day earlier from the Hudson River is Clementi's.

[Freitag]

Here's the thing that I don't get...

Obviously, the kid reported it to the authorities. Only way they would have found out. With 150 followers, the perp didn't have a huge audience.

If that's the case, the perps would have been suspended and kicked out of school, and the kid would have had the room all to himself. Rutgers doesn't take that kind of stuff lightly.

I'm thinking this goes back to his family didn't know and he couldn't deal with it. And that's the shame of it.

[Earlshog]

Here's the thing that I don't get...

Obviously, the kid reported it to the authorities. Only way they would have found out. With 150 followers, the perp didn't have a huge audience.

If that's the case, the perps would have been suspended and kicked out of school, and the kid would have had the room all to himself. Rutgers doesn't take that kind of stuff lightly.

I'm thinking this goes back to his family didn't know and he couldn't deal with it. And that's the shame of it.

Yeah its very strange... The girl in the room next door says he was obviously gay so you would think those close to him would have had an inkling. He seems to have discussed the situation at length on that message board and really didn't seem to be overly distraught.

Then he wrote on his facebook "sorry jumping off the GW Bridge". It really seems like there is more to this story. If those details don't emerge before the story inevitably dies as part of the 24 hour new cycle one would think the local media will follow this up and provide some possible explanations.

[Death Metal Moe]

Says a lot about the people who watched gay sex too. Hopefully they kill themselves as well.

[Serpico1103]

Yeah its very strange... The girl in the room next door says he was obviously gay so you would think those close to him would have had an inkling. He seems to have discussed the situation at length on that message board and really didn't seem to be overly distraught.

Then he wrote on his facebook "sorry jumping off the GW Bridge". It really seems like there is more to this story. If those details don't emerge before the story inevitably dies as part of the 24 hour new cycle one would think the local media will follow this up and provide some possible explanations.

I wonder if the suicide is unrelated. Since, he knew the kid already taped him the first time. I don't think if it was all that big a deal he would have done it again so quickly.
Just curious, they are still assholes who will hopefully be punished. This new generation has to realize that posting things on the internet isn't the same as writing "For a good blowjob, call 18667660339" on the bathroom wall.

[Melk]

By your way of thinking if a guy gets fired and kills himself because he considers himself a failure and an embarrassment to his family, the boss should go to jail.
It is legal to fire someone. Don't make leaps about "my way of thinking."

I don't think these guys are murderers, but they alegedly provoked a mentally unstable person to end his life. If this turns out to be true, they are responsible.

[CaptainBlowhole]

I have not had time to read all these posts, but it just occurred to me of the possibility of the guy he was making out with might have had a reason to be even more upset about his "secret" getting out and maybe assumed this guy was in on it and killed him for it?
Was that guy identified yet?

[Melk]

I have not had time to read all these posts, but it just occurred to me of the possibility of the guy he was making out with might have had a reason to be even more upset about his "secret" getting out and maybe assumed this guy was in on it and killed him for it?
Was that guy identified yet?
Sheepy?

[Serpico1103]

It is legal to fire someone. Don't make leaps about "my way of thinking."

I don't think these guys are murderers, but they alegedly provoked a mentally unstable person to end his life. If this turns out to be true, they are responsible.

Only if they had some responsibility for his care and his suicide was reasonably foreseeable.
Otherwise, only the broadcasting and secret taping is a crime.

I have not had time to read all these posts, but it just occurred to me of the possibility of the guy he was making out with might have had a reason to be even more upset about his "secret" getting out and maybe assumed this guy was in on it and killed him for it?
Was that guy identified yet?

The plot thickens.
He could have been murdered, or killed himself because he knew about the prior and taping and he felt guilty for his partner being outed.
.

[SatCam]

So the new thing all over the news is this guy was involved with the 9/11 coverup as well as keeping obama's real kenyan birth certificate out of the news. Apparently the guy he was making out with was none other than... you guessed it, former new jersey governor and outed homosexual Jim McGreevy. So McGreevy was checking twitter he saw that he was implicated so he tweeted "every1 saw the webcam vid of me makin out last night. dam" and as it turns out, his ex-lover found out Golan Cipel follows Mcgreevy and saw his tweet Now it's important that you know that Cipel's 4th cousin once removed on his step mother's side is Rahm Emanuel. Yes that's right, the now former white house chief of staff. So Cipel is now going around trying to make a big deal out of this because mcgreevy fucked him over a few years ago, he lost his job and all that. So mcreevys pissed right, so he knows about emanuel being related AND he found out the secrets about obama's kenyan birth certificate thru his little lolita over at rutgers, so now he's trying to black mail cipel and emanuel to get cipel to stop talking shit on twitter. so obama gets wind that mcgreevys trying to bring the truth about his birth certificate so he says to emanuel dude you gotta fake run for mayor of chicago and resign so this stuff doesnt get out of hand. and while all this stuff is going on it turns out the kid was depressed to begin with and had big self esteem issues so he jumped off a bridge.

[CaptainBlowhole]

Very interesting! But seriously, if it turns out that the guy he was making out with killed him and used all this to cover it up to throw off the trail, it does make sense in a way. I was just hypothesizing to just explore the idea a little, and imagine what piece is missing from this puzzle beyond the obvious and who else might have to lose or gain by this possibility.

[Snacks]

It is legal to fire someone. Don't make leaps about "my way of thinking."

I don't think these guys are murderers, but they alegedly provoked a mentally unstable person to end his life. If this turns out to be true, they are responsible.

To play devils advocate. If a straight guy lived in a dorm with a lot of gays and they made fun of him and called him a breeder and he couldnt handle being teased would it be their fault if he killed himself? When does some cracking on someone stop being just friendly making fun of someone to become something criminal?

I agree with TripleSkeet. The people bullying or making fun of someone arent responsible when someone takes his own life. Should the media be held responsible when a celebrity kills themselves because of overly media attention? If Lyndsey Lohan killed herself should every paparazzi photographer, EXtra, E news, ET be held responsible?

And before you say they put themselves out there, what about some avg person who becomes part of a news media story. They didnt ask for media attention but in those cases the media doesnt leave them alone.

My point is, when you kill yourself it should be on the person who killed themselves not someone else.

[CaptainBlowhole]

Its up to a person how they chose to react to a difficult situation, and it is the most admirable quality in people to possess the ability to rise above the firestorm and see their way though it. If this guy took his life because he did not want to deal with the difficulty he foresaw in rising above it, it was a flaw in his character and reveals a weakness in his spirit and his vision of his own self worth.
Obviously his tormentors were cruel to put him in situation by doing what they allegedly did, but they did not drive him to the GW Bridge and shove him off it. That was (apparently) his own doing and his own choice. In my mind, I can see him in total anguish as his personal secret was aired for "the world" to see, even though that world was actually quite small in perspective to the real world at large. I imagine him fearing his parents discovery of his secret that he probably tried to shield them from out of fear that they will judge him and condemn his sexual preference. We will never know, but we do know there was a secret that someone wanted hidden so much that they weakly chose death over its revelation.

[Dude!]

To play devils advocate. If a straight guy lived in a dorm with a lot of gays and they made fun of him and called him a breeder and he couldnt handle being teased would it be their fault if he killed himself? When does some cracking on someone stop being just friendly making fun of someone to become something criminal?

I agree with TripleSkeet. The people bullying or making fun of someone arent responsible when someone takes his own life. Should the media be held responsible when a celebrity kills themselves because of overly media attention? If Lyndsey Lohan killed herself should every paparazzi photographer, EXtra, E news, ET be held responsible?

And before you say they put themselves out there, what about some avg person who becomes part of a news media story. They didnt ask for media attention but in those cases the media doesnt leave them alone.

My point is, when you kill yourself it should be on the person who killed themselves not someone else.

why do you insist
on calling this "bullying"

a person has a right
to expect PRIVACY in
their own home
for chrissakes

gay sex is only
complicating the equation

how would you like
someone to secretly
videotape you in your
own house, and put it
out there for the world to see?

the creep factor of someone
taping me secretly
would set me off

unlike this poor kid,
i would have killed the perp
instead of myself

[Serpico1103]

why do you insist on calling this "bullying"a person has a rightto expect PRIVACY intheir own home for chrissakes
nd put itout there for the world to see?
ay sex is onlyunlike this poor kid,
i would have killed the perp
instead of myselfcomplicating the equationhow would y like
someone to secretlyvideotape you in your
own house, athe creep factor of someone
taping me secretly
would set me off


It is probably not "bully", because they weren't doing it to harm the victim, they were just doing it as a goof. A horrible prank, not a malicious act.

[Snacks]

why do you insist
on calling this "bullying"

a person has a right
to expect PRIVACY in
their own home
for chrissakes

gay sex is only
complicating the equation

how would you like
someone to secretly
videotape you in your
own house, and put it
out there for the world to see?

the creep factor of someone
taping me secretly
would set me off

unlike this poor kid,
i would have killed the perp
instead of myself

and if its not bullying (which I agree its not I just used that because of other similar cases of people killing themselves) then he killed himself for even less of a reason. We all want our privacy and what was done to him was wrong. But to kill yourself over privacy being violated, well we will have millions of people jumping off the GWB.

[Tenbatsuzen]

Few things:

Was the kids taping the gay kid a hate crime? Yes.

Did the kids provoke the gay kid into suicide? No. Why?

The kid had time to think about and know about what he was doing. At least 48 hours passed between the incident (which he knew about, and had time to post on a message board about it) and killing himself.

It's not like he drove off as soon as he found out.

He could have found someone to talk to. There are options. ESPECIALLY at Rutgers.

Are the kids douches? Yes. But the space between the incidents and the suicide is too much to blame instant provocation out of passion. This was a premeditated act by the gay kid.

[Melk]

It is probably not "bully", because they weren't doing it to harm the victim, they were just doing it as a goof. A horrible prank, not a malicious act.
How were they not trying to harm the victim?

Trying to embarrass someone is an act of malice. It is certainly not murder, but it is not an innocent act. They were trying to make a fool out of a guy trying to get his nut off in the privacy of his own bedroom. If this were a sexy heterosexual, blond-haired girl duped by a group of dorm guys, a lot of the people posting (not all) would do a complete 180 on their opinion.

[Snacks]

Few things:

Was the kids taping the gay kid a hate crime? Yes.

Did the kids provoke the gay kid into suicide? No. Why?

The kid had time to think about and know about what he was doing. At least 48 hours passed between the incident (which he knew about, and had time to post on a message board about it) and killing himself.

It's not like he drove off as soon as he found out.

He could have found someone to talk to. There are options. ESPECIALLY at Rutgers.

Are the kids douches? Yes. But the space between the incidents and the suicide is too much to blame instant provocation out of passion. This was a premeditated act by the gay kid.

wait, why is it a HATE crime? I hate that term so much. They werent doing it because they hated him they did it as a joke. A bad joke but it was a joke. I would never do something like this but its not a hate crime its an invasion of privacy. The problem I even have with privacy now a days is we shouldnt expect any anymore. I think the thing that might help the roommate is that it was also his room. Im guessing when you share a dorm room you should never feel there is privacy.

I asked this before maybe someone with a legal background would know. If he said he left his webcam on to make sure people didnt steal his shit but happened to catch his roommate hooking up. Wouldnt that be ok?

[Serpico1103]

How were they not trying to harm the victim?

Trying to embarrass someone is an act of malice. It is certainly not murder, but it is not an innocent act. They were trying to make a fool out of a guy trying to get his nut off in the privacy of his own bedroom. If this were a sexy heterosexual, blond-haired girl duped by a group of dorm guys, a lot of the people posting (not all) would do a complete 180 on their opinion.

I mean, it seemed like it was a prank meant to be funny, not an act meant to destroy someone. Funny at the victim's expense, but still most humor can be seen as hurtful.
These are young people. They weren't executives at a corporation posting tapes of an affair of another executive hoping to ruin his career. I think what they did is very wrong. I don't think they are responsible for his death. Had they posted the video and said "die faggot." Had they mailed the video to his parents. Had they put the video up during classes at school. That would be different.

To be clear. I hope they serve prison time. Especially the guy, who seemed to be the real instigator. But, I do not think, and it seems all courts agree, they can not be held criminally responsible for the kid's death.

[Melk]

I asked this before maybe someone with a legal background would know. If he said he left his webcam on to make sure people didnt steal his shit but happened to catch his roommate hooking up. Wouldnt that be ok?
This question is moot.

[Tenbatsuzen]

wait, why is it a HATE crime? I hate that term so much. They werent doing it because they hated him they did it as a joke. A bad joke but it was a joke. I would never do something like this but its not a hate crime its an invasion of privacy.

Kid was targeted because he was gay. Think the roommate would have this much of an issue if he was having sex with a girl?

It's a fine line, but the kid's sexuality DEFINITELY figures into it. Ergo, there's a tolerance factor.

[Stuft]

.......I asked this before maybe someone with a legal background would know. If he said he left his webcam on to make sure people didnt steal his shit but happened to catch his roommate hooking up. Wouldnt that be ok?

Posting it on the internet makes the whole thing *not ok*- advertising it beforehand, even, most certainly makes it not ok.

I do agree w/ most, tho, that i don't think they're ultimately responsible for his decision to commit suicide.

[Snacks]

This question is moot.

why is that moot? From what I read the charge of broadcasting it over the internet isnt as it sounds. That charge stems from them looking at the video feed in that girls dorm room not from sending it or posting it.

If I was the defense attorney that would be my claim. He left it on thinking his roommate was stealing from him and instead he caught the roommate getting some action.

[Serpico1103]

Kid was targeted because he was gay. Think the roommate would have this much of an issue if he was having sex with a girl?

It's a fine line, but the kid's sexuality DEFINITELY figures into it. Ergo, there's a tolerance factor.

You made a huge leap. He did it = he did it because he was gay = he hates gays. I didn't see anything the guy posted that showed hate or angry towards the victim.; just goofiness. "Two guys making out, Yay!"

A crime, not a hate crime.

[Serpico1103]

why is that moot? From what I read the charge of broadcasting it over the internet isnt as it sounds. That charge stems from them looking at the video feed in that girls dorm room not from sending it or posting it.

If I was the defense attorney that would be my claim. He left it on thinking his roommate was stealing from him and instead he caught the roommate getting some action.

Not sure what you have read.
He posted that he would be broadcasting it. He didn't innocently check to see if someone was stealing his stuff and just happen to see two guys having sex.
He set up the camera to video two men having sex. He invited others to watch beforehand.

I am missing where you think this can be spun into an innocent mistake.

[Snacks]

Kid was targeted because he was gay. Think the roommate would have this much of an issue if he was having sex with a girl?

It's a fine line, but the kid's sexuality DEFINITELY figures into it. Ergo, there's a tolerance factor.

No I dont think he had a problem with his roommate having gay or straight sex. I think it was a typical immature college freshmen thinking he was being funny. Maybe the kid who was gay had a problem with it getting out but I dont think gay or straight changes things. Do you think the roommate wouldnt have done this if he was straight? I think he would still have recorded it no matter who it was or what kind of sex it was.

We throw hate crime around way too often. Crime is crime we shouldnt find people more guilty based on what we think is hate or not. You dont know what was going on in someones mind so you shouldnt be allowed to double charges because you think the crime was done out of hate. whatever the crime is it is nothing more. I say that for this case and any other case out there.

[Snacks]

Not sure what you have read.
He posted that he would be broadcasting it. He didn't innocently check to see if someone was stealing his stuff and just happen to see two guys having sex.
He set up the camera to video two men having sex. He invited others to watch beforehand.

I am missing where you think this can be spun into an innocent mistake.

I must have missed the part where he posted it for others to see beforehand.

[Serpico1103]

I must have missed the part where he posted it for others to see beforehand.

Check AngryMissy's post, page 1, post 19.

[Melk]

I mean, it seemed like it was a prank meant to be funny, not an act meant to destroy someone. Funny at the victim's expense, but still most humor can be seen as hurtful.
(...)
To be clear. I hope they serve prison time. Especially the guy, who seemed to be the real instigator. But, I do not think, and it seems all courts agree, they can not be held criminally responsible for the kid's death.
I see the instigators as trying to humiliate this guy for their own enjoyment. It is unlikely that they were intending this kid to drop out of college or kill himself. But, this was not a normal prank.

On a personal level, I am irritated that so many people are so anti-CCTV (Big Brother) and so pro-public surveillance (Little Brother).

[Serpico1103]

I see the instigators as trying to humiliate this guy for their own enjoyment. It is unlikely that they were intending this kid to drop out of college or kill himself. But, this was not a normal prank.

On a personal level, I am irritated that so many people are so anti-CCTV (Big Brother) and so pro-public surveillance (Little Brother).

I see it more as a prank that they think is funny without realizing, which they should, that it could be very hurtful to the victim. Especially if the kid was out, they maybe didn't realize being out on campus is much different than being out on the internet.

[Tenbatsuzen]

This also explains why Fez flipped the fuck out in DC.

[TripleSkeet]

the act that resulted
in the suicide
was illegal

firing an employee is not
(generally)

No the act didnt cause the suicide. The person that killed themselves caused the suicide. It doesnt matter WHY some kills themselves. It doesnt make those people responsible. If I find out my wife is cheating on me, and just lose my shit and kill myself does that mean its her fault? No. And I guess you would say thats because cheating isnt a crime.

How about this one? If a broker swindles a guy out of his life's savings, and after a few days the guy puts a bullet in his own head, does that mean the brokers responsible? His crime of stealing money from the guy is the reason the guy killed himself. Does that mean he should get charged with murder?

This kid had the right to privacy, which was violated and which the other kids should be punished for. But he doesnt have a right to be free from humiliation or embarrassment. Thats fucking ridiculous. If you could go to jail for making fun of someone or just straight embarrassuing them Id be serving about 15 consecutives life terms right now.

[Melk]

Does that mean he should get charged with murder?
He was responsible for the act that provoked the suicide. It isn't murder. He will be charged with things like invasion of privacy.

This kid had the right to privacy, which was violated and which the other kids should be punished for. But he doesnt have a right to be free from humiliation or embarrassment. Thats fucking ridiculous.
The right to privacy supersedes the non-existent right to be free from humiliation or embarrassment that assume that we are arguing for. The lawyer or the family in this case could seek damages related to pain and suffering related to the incident. This isn't even a new, trendy part of legal tort. This has been a legal option for generations. I am not an expert, but I believe that you are responsible for the psychological consequences your victim suffers in the commission of a crime.

This isn't getting a wedgie.
This isn't passive name-calling.
This is video recording someone in the privacy of their own residence against his will.

This will likely be tried like the crime where the mother harassed her daughter's rival on Facebook and/or as a civil trial.

If I find out my wife is cheating on me, and just lose my shit and kill myself does that mean its her fault? No. And I guess you would say thats because cheating isnt a crime.
Your sarcasm aside, you are mostly correct. However, there may be laws in certain jurisdictions that treat adultery as a crime and thus the wife could be tried for adultery criminally and for responsibility in your suicide civilly (assuming someone you know takes up the case for you.)

How about this one? If a broker swindles a guy out of his life's savings, and after a few days the guy puts a bullet in his own head, does that mean the brokers responsible? His crime of stealing money from the guy is the reason the guy killed himself. Does that mean he should get charged with murder?
The broker is potentially responsible for the swindle and also potentially responsible for the pain and suffering that his crime caused the victim and his family.

[TripleSkeet]

It doesnt matter, they arent responsible for the kids death and every law expert Ive seen interviewed on news shows about this agrees.

If youre going for a money angle thats one thing, but there are laws and maximum sentences for invasion of privacy. My point is that as far as it should go and these kids should not be held responsible because that young man couldnt handle being humiliated.

I feel bad that the kid got outed the way he did, but as far as his suicide is concerned I view him as a coward.

[keithy_19]

I feel bad that the kid got outed the way he did, but as far as his suicide is concerned I view him as a coward.

I take issue with this statement. I get that killing yourself isn't the best thing that a person can do, but he obviously was put into a situation he couldn't handle. Being humilated in such a personal way, at a vulnerable point of his life, pushed him to complete a series of rash descions. He's not a coward.

As for the jerk off people who orchestrated this, they're not going to get charged in relation to his death. I remembering hearing that they are trying to factor in hate crime legislation with this, but I don't think it will be much more than they are already going to get.

[Melk]

I feel bad that the kid got outed the way he did, but as far as his suicide is concerned I view him as a coward.
As you said, if I am going for the money thing... the guys have legal and/or civil responsibility. If they are found guilty of invading his privacy, they may be held responsible for the grief, stress, pain or suffering they caused him.

Do you believe that the suicide of the victim of a crime whether it an invasion of privacy, bullying or a hate crime negate the weight of a pain and suffering claim? I get the impression that you are trivializing this guy's pain and suffering because you have a beef against people who can's take a little ball-bustin'.

[CofyCrakCocaine]

It doesnt matter, they arent responsible for the kids death and every law expert Ive seen interviewed on news shows about this agrees.

If youre going for a money angle thats one thing, but there are laws and maximum sentences for invasion of privacy. My point is that as far as it should go and these kids should not be held responsible because that young man couldnt handle being humiliated.

I feel bad that the kid got outed the way he did, but as far as his suicide is concerned I view him as a coward.

I know the family of the guy, so I hope you fucking drop dead you fuck. Go fuck yourself for the rest of your fucking life, you Philly fuck. Fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck you.

[spoon]

fuck who now?

[Melk]

866-fu-line-1

[NewYorkDragons80]

Are you suggesting that if the victim was mentally unstable that the bullying party is not guilty?

Who records someone having sex and distributes the recording to a mass audience against the wishes of the participants without meaning to cause the recorded party harm?

Is it a hate crime? That is up to the legal system to decide. But this recording was not made in that guy's better interests.

The bullying party is guilty of invasion of privacy, PERIOD DOT. Our legal system should not be used to pursue justice beyond its rightful boundaries. Suicide was an option the victim *chose* to exercise, and the defendants' responsibility ended in that dorm room.

[PapaBear]

The bullying party is guilty of invasion of privacy, PERIOD DOT. Our legal system should not be used to pursue justice beyond its rightful boundaries. Suicide was an option the victim *chose* to exercise, and the defendants' responsibility ended in that dorm room.
I completely agree with this. If the guy who killed himself, had been constantly bullied, and he had pursued abuse complaints through the school (and or) court system, then it would be more than just an invasion of privacy issue. That said, I'm still willing to bet that the family of the dead guy, will end up winning a civil judgment.

[Melk]

The bullying party is guilty of invasion of privacy, PERIOD DOT. Our legal system should not be used to pursue justice beyond its rightful boundaries. Suicide was an option the victim *chose* to exercise, and the defendants' responsibility ended in that dorm room.
We'll see.

If Erin Andrew's stalker got an extra long sentence for due to her pain and suffering, these kids are going to be punished fairly harshly for privacy violation as they should be.

Even if the maximum sentence is 6 months, they deserve the full punishment.

[Melk]

That said, I'm still willing to bet that the family of the dead guy, will end up winning a civil judgment.Agreed. This is my point the whole time.

[spoon]

I think the invasion of privacy is a HUGE issue here not even taking into consideration the indirect implications of their actions. This along with the Andrews case show just how far people have lost their way and are willing to put things up they have no right doing so. I'm not saying they should go to jail for years, but we surely need to have laws to make people fear throwing up private acts in private settings no matter what they are.

[PapaBear]

I think the invasion of privacy is a HUGE issue here not even taking into consideration the indirect implications of their actions. This along with the Andrews case show just how far people have lost their way and are willing to put things up they have no right doing so. I'm not saying they should go to jail for years, but we surely need to have laws to make people fear throwing up private acts in private settings no matter what they are.
Fuck... I was going to give opinions about jail and civil litigation, but it just made me have to think more about it more... and more... FUCK YOU ALL, FOR MAKING ME THINK!:wallbash:

[Melk]

Fuck... I was going to give opinions about jail and civil litigation, but it just made me have to think more about it more... and more... FUCK YOU ALL, FOR MAKING ME THINK!:wallbash:
I actually worry about the slippery slope where a couple of douchebags filming their gay roommate or Erin Andrews may lead to people getting arrested for photographing public places.

[PapaBear]

I actually worry about the slippery slope where a couple of douchebags filming their gay roommate or Erin Andrews may lead to people getting arrested for photographing public places.
I was thinking more about the whole "bullying thing".

[spoon]

I actually worry about the slippery slope where a couple of douchebags filming their gay roommate or Erin Andrews may lead to people getting arrested for photographing public places.

The key here is they weren't even close to public places so I doubt that will come into play.

[Melk]

I was thinking more about the whole "bullying thing".
Legislation on this topic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyberbullying) keeps coming up and getting retooled by lawmakers throughout the states.

[Melk]

The key here is they weren't even close to public places so I doubt that will come into play.
I hope so.

[NewYorkDragons80]

Agreed. This is my point the whole time.

While I think that's accurate, I don't necessarily think that's a good thing. I'd like to hear from some lawyers on this, but what are everyone's thoughts on the reduced burden of proof in civil cases? I think it's been abused and this is a case where a rightly angry family will earn money from a cruel act, but not one motivated by malice. I just can't accept that the victim was something other than the prime mover in the death itself.

[Freitag]

Here's a thought I had.

What if it wasn't the "spying" Ravi did that led to this kid jumping, but rather, it was rejection from the kid's date?

Details are coming out now that the other person was an "older man". If that's the case, why didn't they go to his place? Maybe because the other guy wasn't single? Maybe the other guy was hiding something?

It's just a thought process. Maybe the kid told the other guy something, and the other guy freaked out.

[Dude!]

Here's a thought I had.

What if it wasn't the "spying" Ravi did that led to this kid jumping, but rather, it was rejection from the kid's date?

Details are coming out now that the other person was an "older man". If that's the case, why didn't they go to his place? Maybe because the other guy wasn't single? Maybe the other guy was hiding something?

It's just a thought process. Maybe the kid told the other guy something, and the other guy freaked out.

wow...gotta love the speculation

what if the older man
was the president of Rutgers?

that would explain alot

[Serpico1103]

While I think that's accurate, I don't necessarily think that's a good thing. I'd like to hear from some lawyers on this, but what are everyone's thoughts on the reduced burden of proof in civil cases? I think it's been abused and this is a case where a rightly angry family will earn money from a cruel act, but not one motivated by malice. I just can't accept that the victim was something other than the prime mover in the death itself.

The tort would be either negligent or intentional infliction of emotional distress. The school could also be liable, if they were made aware of the problem and did nothing. However, the kid knew about the first incident and repeated the behavior, so he didn't seem so torn up about. That is what makes me wonder if there was something different about the second incident; either what happened or who it was with.

[TripleSkeet]

We'll see.

If Erin Andrew's stalker got an extra long sentence for due to her pain and suffering, these kids are going to be punished fairly harshly for privacy violation as they should be.

Even if the maximum sentence is 6 months, they deserve the full punishment.

I agree with this. If this is the full punishment for invasion of pruivacy, I have no problem with them recieving it.

I'm not saying they should go to jail for years, but we surely need to have laws to make people fear throwing up private acts in private settings no matter what they are.

Not sure what the punishment is, but if its something like mentioned above, where its 6 months in jail, that should be a suitable enough deterrant. You cant just make every law super harsh to keep people from breaking them. This was a joke gone wrong, I mean you can never predict that someone can be so embarrassed they would kill themselves


I know the family of the guy, so I hope you fucking drop dead you fuck. Go fuck yourself for the rest of your fucking life, you Philly fuck. Fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck you.

Look dude, if you got something to say to me, dont beat around the bush, just come out and say it. If theres one thing I hate its passive aggresiveness.

[TripleSkeet]

I know the family of the guy, so I hope you fucking drop dead you fuck. Go fuck yourself for the rest of your fucking life, you Philly fuck. Fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck you.

Oh and since you know the fam could you clear up something alot of people have been speculating about? Were they the type of people that would be mortified about their son being gay? I only ask because alot of people were saying it may have been because his family would never accept him and make his life hell. Just wondering if they were the type to accept him as a gay man or not.

[Snacks]

While I think that's accurate, I don't necessarily think that's a good thing. I'd like to hear from some lawyers on this, but what are everyone's thoughts on the reduced burden of proof in civil cases? I think it's been abused and this is a case where a rightly angry family will earn money from a cruel act, but not one motivated by malice. I just can't accept that the victim was something other than the prime mover in the death itself.

I have always found it to be one of the many problems with the justice system. I never understood how you could be found not guilty during a criminal trial but guilty during a civil suit. Like the OJ case he was found not guilty (lets not argue is he really was or wasnt) of murder. Yet he lost the civil case? Sorry if you are not guilty your are not guilty in both. We shouldnt allow someone to be sued and lose after they were just found not guilty in another court. If you couldnt prove they did the crime in criminal court how on earth is it ok to find them liable civilly? I never understood it and no matter what anyone says I wont accept it.

[TripleSkeet]

I have always found it to be one of the many problems with the justice system. I never understood how you could be found not guilty during a criminal trial but guilty during a civil suit. Like the OJ case he was found not guilty (lets not argue is he really was or wasnt) of murder. Yet he lost the civil case? Sorry if you are not guilty your are not guilty in both. We shouldnt allow someone to be sued and lose after they were just found not guilty in another court. If you couldnt prove they did the crime in criminal court how on earth is it ok to find them liable civilly? I never understood it and no matter what anyone says I wont accept it.

I agree with this.

[Serpico1103]

I have always found it to be one of the many problems with the justice system. I never understood how you could be found not guilty during a criminal trial but guilty during a civil suit. Like the OJ case he was found not guilty (lets not argue is he really was or wasnt) of murder. Yet he lost the civil case? Sorry if you are not guilty your are not guilty in both. We shouldnt allow someone to be sued and lose after they were just found not guilty in another court. If you couldnt prove they did the crime in criminal court how on earth is it ok to find them liable civilly? I never understood it and no matter what anyone says I wont accept it.

Reasonable approach to an issue.

Because, being imprisoned is seen as the ultimate penalty, so the proof needed is higher. Just because you are found not guilty does not mean you are innocent, that is why you are declared not guilty instead of innocent.
The civil burden is lower to allow for recovery when even though the person was found, not guilty, there is a substantial chance that they are still liable.

Accept nothing I have posted; this or any other post.

[Snacks]

Reasonable approach to an issue.

Because, being imprisoned is seen as the ultimate penalty, so the proof needed is higher. Just because you are found not guilty does not mean you are innocent, that is why you are declared not guilty instead of innocent.
The civil burden is lower to allow for recovery when even though the person was found, not guilty, there is a substantial chance that they are still liable.

Accept nothing I have posted; this or any other post.

thats all well and good but being found not guilty in a criminal case should help the person in a civil suit.

[Serpico1103]

thats all well and good but being found not guilty in a criminal case should help the person in a civil suit.

It does. It just doesn't win the case. There isn't some higher law that decided the standard of proof necessary for criminal and civil suits. They decided that freedom was more valuable than assets, so the standard for losing your freedom was set higher. They could just as easily both be the lower standard.
There are problems with the civil system, but having a lower standard I do not think is one of the problems.

[TripleSkeet]

It does. It just doesn't win the case. There isn't some higher law that decided the standard of proof necessary for criminal and civil suits. They decided that freedom was more valuable than assets, so the standard for losing your freedom was set higher. They could just as easily both be the lower standard.
There are problems with the civil system, but having a lower standard I do not think is one of the problems.

I agree. Judging by the amount of money they reward these people with the standard should be just as high as it is for criminal cases.

[Serpico1103]

I agree. Judging by the amount of money they reward these people with the standard should be just as high as it is for criminal cases.

Do you think every civil suit is won? Do you think every civil suit that is won, the plaintiffs end up with millions?

[TripleSkeet]

Do you think every civil suit is won? Do you think every civil suit that is won, the plaintiffs end up with millions?

No. But the fact they CAN awrd it is enough for me to think they should have a higher standard.

There isnt enough proof to lock you up but there is enough to bankrupt you? Yea, that sounds fair.

[Serpico1103]

No. But the fact they CAN awrd it is enough for me to think they should have a higher standard.

There isnt enough proof to lock you up but there is enough to bankrupt you? Yea, that sounds fair.
Exactly!
Freedom is worth more than bankruptcy. They could make them both the lower standard. Would that be ok with you, the same proof to be locked and bankrupt?

[TripleSkeet]

Exactly!
Freedom is worth more than bankruptcy. They could make them both the lower standard. Would that be ok with you, the same proof to be locked and bankrupt?

No. My point is to bankrupt a person they should have to reach the same burden of proof they have to reach to put them in jail. Thats not lowering the criminal proof standards, thats raising the proof standards for civil cases. Guilty should mean guilty. A court of law is not the place to LOWER standards.

[Justice4all]

Mostly because of this dogshit:

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp95/tobinobin/Religion_by_StarDragon77.jpg

Strike religion down where ever you find it.

Just because you don't believe in it makes it wrong.

Not all people who follow certain religions goose-step in line with the higher-ups perspectives on gays and/or persecutions.

[Justice4all]

Speaking of tolerance

http://gawker.com/5651222/deranged-attorney-general-harassing-radical-gay-student-body-president

Jesus this guy is out of his mind! I would be surprised if he doesn't get fired and maybe sued.

[Justice4all]

No I dont think he had a problem with his roommate having gay or straight sex. I think it was a typical immature college freshmen thinking he was being funny. Maybe the kid who was gay had a problem with it getting out but I dont think gay or straight changes things. Do you think the roommate wouldnt have done this if he was straight? I think he would still have recorded it no matter who it was or what kind of sex it was.

We throw hate crime around way too often. Crime is crime we shouldnt find people more guilty based on what we think is hate or not. You dont know what was going on in someones mind so you shouldnt be allowed to double charges because you think the crime was done out of hate. whatever the crime is it is nothing more. I say that for this case and any other case out there.

It is possible that the kid who broadcast the escapade was jealous of his roommate because the gay kid was able to get a date and the other one maybe wasn't.
Not saying that's it but it IS possible.

[Serpico1103]

Jesus this guy is out of his mind! I would be surprised if he doesn't get fired and maybe sued.

He took a voluntary leave of absence; facing a disciplinary hearing when he returns. On Monday, they will both be in court, the student is seeking an order of protection against the ADA. Even in the picture the ADA looks gay. (http://www.annarbor.com/news/university-of-michigan-student-body-president-assistant-state-attorney-general-face-off-in-court-mon/)

[Crossweird]

From today's Star Ledger: "Friends support pair charged in Rutgers sex video case"...

Those who know Ravi describe him as spirited and outgoing. He is a formidable breakdancer and, in addition to running track at West Windsor-Plainsboro North, was co-captain of the Ultimate Frisbee team.

Another friend, Mark Lin, 17, said Ravi had near-perfect scores on his SATs.

Those who knew Wei in middle and high school said she played volleyball, sang in a choir and enjoyed many friendships.

I'm not sure that it's a great idea to point out that the two are both happy, smart, athletic, and popular.

[Dude!]

Ravi had near-perfect scores on his SATs.

so why would he go
to Rutgers?

[Crossweird]

so why would he go
to Rutgers?

Ultimate Frisbee scholarship.

[Tenbatsuzen]

so why would he go
to Rutgers?

I know you're going for a joke, but Rutgers is a very good school. And ironically, since we're discussing tolerance, also has a very large asian and Indian/Pakistani student population.

[Tenbatsuzen]

What annoys me about the case is the following:

1) Everyone thinks the reason Tyler killed himself is because he was in the closet and he was "outed", yet all indicators show that Tyler was out of the closet already.

2) Several news reports say that "Tyler felt like he had no where to go" when this is false. Tyler reported what happened to the RA who was setting up disciplinary action. That's why the kids were arrested. If Tyler doesn't report what happened, nobody knows about it.

3) With Tyler dead, you cannot prove beyond a shadow of a doubt this was a hate crime, so it's going to be incredibly tough to prosecute it as such. Even Tyler posted on a message board that outside of the filming, his roommate was "pretty cool".

There are too many parts of the puzzle missing here. I almost want to go on Websleuths to see, but I may start killing people in a blind rage if I do.

[Serpico1103]

What annoys me about the case is the following:

1) Everyone thinks the reason Tyler killed himself is because he was in the closet and he was "outed", yet all indicators show that Tyler was out of the closet already.

2) Several news reports say that "Tyler felt like he had no where to go" when this is false. Tyler reported what happened to the RA who was setting up disciplinary action. That's why the kids were arrested. If Tyler doesn't report what happened, nobody knows about it.

3) With Tyler dead, you cannot prove beyond a shadow of a doubt this was a hate crime, so it's going to be incredibly tough to prosecute it as such. Even Tyler posted on a message board that outside of the filming, his roommate was "pretty cool".

There are too many parts of the puzzle missing here. I almost want to go on Websleuths to see, but I may start killing people in a blind rage if I do.

You mean the media isn't honest journalism? Enraging!

[Tenbatsuzen]

You mean the media isn't honest journalism? Enraging!

the news media is also not reporting that Tyler apparently had an account on a gay cam-chat site.

[Tenbatsuzen]

In light of recent events, does anyone find this Windows 7 commercial with the kid outside of his dorm room with a computer while his roomate gets it on horribly inappropriate?

[PapaBear]

In light of recent events, does anyone find this Windows 7 commercial with the kid outside of his dorm room with a computer while his roomate gets it on horribly inappropriate?
It's hetero sex, so it's acceptable.

[Snacks]

In light of recent events, does anyone find this Windows 7 commercial with the kid outside of his dorm room with a computer while his roomate gets it on horribly inappropriate?

I didnt find it inappropriate it is what its is. These kids are in college they play jokes on each other. I wonder if this kid was having sex with a female and killed himself if it would be getting as much press as it is getting?

I have a feeling this kid had more issues then this video. The roommate should never have done it but I wonder how many times roommates do shit like this to each other and its laughed off? Im sorry but they should not be honoring this guy. He killed himself, its not like he died in a car accident, over dose or was beat up and killed because he was gay. This all happened because he killed himself. No matter what you think of his roommate he isnt some kind of martyr.

[SatCam]

I almost want to go on Websleuths to see, but I may start killing people in a blind rage if I do.

how do you think we feel when we read your posts in this thread?

[StanUpshaw]

I have a feeling this kid had more issues then this video. The roommate should never have done it but I wonder how many times roommates do shit like this to each other and its laughed off? Im sorry but they should not be honoring this guy. He killed himself, its not like he died in a car accident, over dose or was beat up and killed because he was gay. This all happened because he killed himself. No matter what you think of his roommate he isnt some kind of martyr.

In other threads there would be half a dozen posters rushing to be the first one to explain how the media is narrative driven and that the mythology of a tragic death caused by a love that dare not speak its name is just far too juicy to pass up. Evidently certain narratives are too juicy even for those critical minds.

[Justice4all]

He took a voluntary leave of absence; facing a disciplinary hearing when he returns. On Monday, they will both be in court, the student is seeking an order of protection against the ADA. Even in the picture the ADA looks gay. (http://www.annarbor.com/news/university-of-michigan-student-body-president-assistant-state-attorney-general-face-off-in-court-mon/)
Well it looks like we have to wait another three weeks before we see what the outcome of this will be. (http://www.annarbor.com/news/shirvell-armstrong-hearing-delayed-for-three-weeks/)

[Tenbatsuzen]

My blood is fucking boiling.

STOP ACTING LIKE THE KID WAS OUTED ON THE INTERNET. THAT'S NOT WHAT CAUSED HIM TO JUMP.

He either jumped from 1) the invasion of privacy (which is doubtful, because he talked about it on the gay forum) or 2) my theory that his lover rejected him.

[Serpico1103]

My blood is fucking boiling.

STOP ACTING LIKE THE KID WAS OUTED ON THE INTERNET. THAT'S NOT WHAT CAUSED HIM TO JUMP.

He either jumped from 1) the invasion of privacy (which is doubtful, because he talked about it on the gay forum) or 2) my theory that his lover rejected him.

Not sure why, but you might be too emotionally invested in this story.

[Dude!]

Not sure why, but you might be too emotionally invested in this story.

are you suggesting
that he's the lover?

[Tenbatsuzen]

Not sure why, but you might be too emotionally invested in this story.

Because the media is taking all the sensationalist angles and missing the fucking elephant in the room that a major piece is missing.

[Justice4all]

Well it looks like we have to wait another three weeks before we see what the outcome of this will be. (http://www.annarbor.com/news/shirvell-armstrong-hearing-delayed-for-three-weeks/)



And the gay president speaks out. This is going to be interesting when the hearing is finally had. (http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/10/07/michigan.justice.blog/index.html?hpt=T1)

[Justice4all]

My blood is fucking boiling.

STOP ACTING LIKE THE KID WAS OUTED ON THE INTERNET. THAT'S NOT WHAT CAUSED HIM TO JUMP.

He either jumped from 1) the invasion of privacy (which is doubtful, because he talked about it on the gay forum) or 2) my theory that his lover rejected him.

How do you know for a FACT that he wasn't outed? Do you have any factual proof to show otherwise?

[spoon]

How do you know for a FACT that he wasn't outed? Do you have any factual proof to show otherwise?

Come on, why cloud arguments with actual facts? This is TeMZbats we're talking about here.

[Tenbatsuzen]

How do you know for a FACT that he wasn't outed? Do you have any factual proof to show otherwise?

Because Ravi tweeted that his roommate was gay back in August. That's outing with the same audience. (on twitter) Kid didn't jump then.

Someone who is closeted doesn't hook up with a guy in their dorm room. That's pretty open behavior.

[Tenbatsuzen]

How do you know for a FACT that he wasn't outed? Do you have any factual proof to show otherwise?

And in reverse, do you have any evidence that he was in the closet? All of the behavior he's exhibited says otherwise. I'm not blaming the victim, but there is a major piece of this puzzle missing and putting the blame solely on them is wrong and smacks of a witchhunt.

He posted on the forum that he knew what his roommate was doing, and he reported it. Then there's a window after he reported it, then he jumped.

I want to know what happened in the window between him posting on the forum and his jumping off the bridge.

[TripleSkeet]

Because Ravi tweeted that his roommate was gay back in August. That's outing with the same audience. (on twitter) Kid didn't jump then.

Someone who is closeted doesn't hook up with a guy in their dorm room. That's pretty open behavior.

Hes got a point.

[SatCam]

And in reverse, do you have any evidence that he was in the closet? All of the behavior he's exhibited says otherwise. I'm not blaming the victim, but there is a major piece of this puzzle missing and putting the blame solely on them is wrong and smacks of a witchhunt.

He posted on the forum that he knew what his roommate was doing, and he reported it. Then there's a window after he reported it, then he jumped.

I want to know what happened in the window between him posting on the forum and his jumping off the bridge.

Can you just accept the fact that people commit suicide for illogical reasons? Suicide itself is an illogical act to most people. Maybe he was outed? Maybe he was embarrassed to be caught on camera? Maybe his lover broke up with him? Maybe his grandma is sick with cancer? Maybe he was abused as a child? He's dead and there's really no sense in trying to figure things out.


Plus you're getting your facts from news articles and online forums. If you really want to solve this mystery grab a pen and paper and drive out to Rutgers.

[TripleSkeet]

Can you just accept the fact that people commit suicide for illogical reasons? Suicide itself is an illogical act to most people. Maybe he was outed? Maybe he was embarrassed to be caught on camera? Maybe his lover broke up with him? Maybe his grandma is sick with cancer? Maybe he was abused as a child? He's dead and there's really no sense in trying to figure things out.


Plus you're getting your facts from news articles and online forums. If you really want to solve this mystery grab a pen and paper and drive out to Rutgers.

I think his point is, and I may be wrong, thats its frustrating that the "news sources" are basically reporting this like it was a hate crime. Like this kid had been bullied by his roommate for being gay and then the roommate outed him causing him to go over the edge and committ suicide. Now anyone that spent 5 minutes reading about the story would know better, but if you read Facebook at all youll see most people are fucking morons and are just going with the headlines and what they hear on the tv "news". Ive been arguing with people on FB for 2 days now over this because they are fucking retarded and dont know how to actually research a news story. Its taken everything Ive got to try to explain to them nicely why they are wrong instead of just calling them stupid cuntfaces.

He made valid points that his actions are not ones that are usualy for a closeted gay college kid. I think he is saying the same thing you are that he may have killed himself for another reason but that reason wouldnt have been as attractive to the news shows as the one they are putting up now. Its like they took the old standard "Never let the facts get in the way of a good story" literally.

[Tenbatsuzen]

Can you just accept the fact that people commit suicide for illogical reasons? Suicide itself is an illogical act to most people. Maybe he was outed? Maybe he was embarrassed to be caught on camera? Maybe his lover broke up with him? Maybe his grandma is sick with cancer? Maybe he was abused as a child? He's dead and there's really no sense in trying to figure things out.


Plus you're getting your facts from news articles and online forums. If you really want to solve this mystery grab a pen and paper and drive out to Rutgers.

That's EXACTLY IT.

If Tyler jumped for reasons outside of the webcam, then there's no "bullying" like the news likes to portray it. The running theory I've had for a while is that Tyler admitted to his hookup what happened with the webcam, the hookup freaked out (because either the hookup is deeply in the closet or has something to hide) and broke up with Tyler. Tyler is heartbroken, he jumps off the bridge.

You can't prosecute the other kids on hate crime charges or anything else if that's the case.

Ravi and Wei can't face their accuser in Clementi, but if they wanted to really slam dunk hate crime charges, why not find the hookup? Find the person, have them testify, and you've got yourself a case. But the person who Tyler was hooking up with is ether. Why? Wouldn't a person who just lost their boyfriend because of two cyberbullies want to have their story out there?

There is a pretty big window between Tyler's calm and rational behavior (reporting it to the RAs, and complaining about it on a message board) and then his totally irrational behavior (jumping off the bridge).

There is more to this story.

[Tenbatsuzen]

I think his point is, and I may be wrong, thats its frustrating that the "news sources" are basically reporting this like it was a hate crime. Like this kid had been bullied by his roommate for being gay and then the roommate outed him causing him to go over the edge and committ suicide. Now anyone that spent 5 minutes reading about the story would know better, but if you read Facebook at all youll see most people are fucking morons and are just going with the headlines and what they hear on the tv "news". Ive been arguing with people on FB for 2 days now over this because they are fucking retarded and dont know how to actually research a news story. Its taken everything Ive got to try to explain to them nicely why they are wrong instead of just calling them stupid cuntfaces.

He made valid points that his actions are not ones that are usualy for a closeted gay college kid. I think he is saying the same thing you are that he may have killed himself for another reason but that reason wouldnt have been as attractive to the news shows as the one they are putting up now. Its like they took the old standard "Never let the facts get in the way of a good story" literally.

pretty much this

it's a combination of my annoyance of college kids acting stupid, the news completely misrepresenting the story, and a massive hole in the timeline.

[spoon]

If you don't want to be accused of things like this, how about not illegally filming people in their private moments and poke fun at it. What else can his motivations be? To show his roommate having sex he doesn't agree with? I guess it was just a Nat Geo film for his overall thesis on gay sex in the wild. Oh and just bc someone of the same sex goes into your dorm room, doesn't mean ur in the fucking open with your sexuality. I don't know what type of college Matt went to, but I guess that was the deciding factor. :wallbash:

Surely it's only a hate crime and a bad thing if they outed the guy who killed himself versus the boyfriend I guess too. I think it's easy to see there was nothing good to come from this, and they fucking knew it. I'm not saying they thought he'd commit suicide, but it wasn't just locker room humor bt fucking friends that much is clearly obvious.

[spoon]

Also, things don't have to happen IMMEDIATELY after the event for it to be linked or the cause. I guess the 911 crews didn't really acquire health issues from the ground zero cleanup bc they didn't die on 9/12 right?! I think that logic is fucking stupid as well, bc the overall pressure, ridicule and all out having to deal with this in many different areas even if out with close family in the past has to be huge and troubling for a young kid no matter how strong. Sure suicide is no answer, but it's not like they had NOTHING to do with whatever transpired even if it wasn't an immediate or completely direct result.

[Tenbatsuzen]

Silly question time:

If the kid was so embarrassed that it happened - embarrassed to the point that he killed himself of the shame - why did he report it to the RA and two superiors?

It's one thing to anonymously talk about it on a message board. It's another thing completely to report it "in real life". He did this with no prodding.

Up to that point, he was doing everything that people tell you do when you're a victim of being bullied - report it, document it, etc. He did everything right. So then why jump? Because something else happened.

[spoon]

Silly Answer Time:

Can we know for sure at this point and is it really are entitled to know?! I'm sure we will bc of the 24 hr news cycle these days, but truly it's not our business.

Seriously, you don't see how things can cascade and build as the information gets out there further with more and more scrutiny? I think it's just as big a leap if not more to think that as the rest to say it's definitely a hate crime.

[keithy_19]

I hate the concept of hate crimes. Fact of it is, if this kid wasn't gay and was in the room with some girl and the filmed it I would hope they get the same punishment they will get now.

[TripleSkeet]

If you don't want to be accused of things like this, how about not illegally filming people in their private moments and poke fun at it. What else can his motivations be? To show his roommate having sex he doesn't agree with? I guess it was just a Nat Geo film for his overall thesis on gay sex in the wild. Oh and just bc someone of the same sex goes into your dorm room, doesn't mean ur in the fucking open with your sexuality. I don't know what type of college Matt went to, but I guess that was the deciding factor. :wallbash:

Surely it's only a hate crime and a bad thing if they outed the guy who killed himself versus the boyfriend I guess too. I think it's easy to see there was nothing good to come from this, and they fucking knew it. I'm not saying they thought he'd commit suicide, but it wasn't just locker room humor bt fucking friends that much is clearly obvious.

Maybe he was just filming his roommate having sex as a prank., Its not his fault he happens to fuck guys.

Ive filmed a roommate at my shore house fucking on our couch. It just happened to be a right place right time moment. About 6 of the guys in my house get back from the bar and are sitting on the deck with a couple of girls we hung out with drinking beers and smoking some cigarettes. The video camera is sitting on the tabel and the outside lights are off. This other roommate comes home later with some random girl and apparently thinks we are still at the bar. They are making out on the couch and shit and nobody is paying much time til the girls shirt comes off. Then we realize that we can see in but unless he walks right up to the door he cant see out. Out came the video camera. An hour later we had it hooked up to the tv and eventually every kid we knew in Sea Isle had seen it. Same thing happened the next year with a different couple.

We didnt do it to hurt the girls reputation or to offend the kid. We did it as a gag because he didnt know we were there. And of course once the story got out everyone that ever walked into the shore house asked to see it.

What Im saying is maybe a joke is just a joke. What would it have been if someone this girl knew told her about the tape and she killed herself because she was so embarrassed? Would we have gone from a bunch of guys pulling a practical joke to "bullies forcing kids to kill themselves"? Its ridiculous.

[angrymissy]

Because Ravi tweeted that his roommate was gay back in August. That's outing with the same audience. (on twitter) Kid didn't jump then.

Someone who is closeted doesn't hook up with a guy in their dorm room. That's pretty open behavior.

Yes they do. There are all sorts of different forms of being out. I guarantee for this kid, he was not fully out, but went to college and decided he could be out there. College, to most gay teens, is where you get to go and be free and out, test it out in a way. But then - he is filmed, which outs him to the motherfucking WORLD, including his family. That can be life ending for a gay teen.

You know that my brother is gay... I can tell you we all KNEW he was gay - but he did not come out to us until he was pretty much forced to (getting gay bashed). BUT - at school, it turned out he was pretty much out. If someone videotaped him and outed him to the WORLD, where people would see, gossip, people from my hometown would perhaps tell my Grandmother (who still doesn't know, and probably never will), it would be the end of the world for him.

It's a very complicated issue, and it's definitely not as black and white as you're making it. Being openly gay at college, and while posting on a gay message board is TOTALLY different from being openly gay to your family and the rest of the world.

[angrymissy]

And in reverse, do you have any evidence that he was in the closet? All of the behavior he's exhibited says otherwise. I'm not blaming the victim, but there is a major piece of this puzzle missing and putting the blame solely on them is wrong and smacks of a witchhunt.

He posted on the forum that he knew what his roommate was doing, and he reported it. Then there's a window after he reported it, then he jumped.

I want to know what happened in the window between him posting on the forum and his jumping off the bridge.

Someone finds out about the video that he knows will spread it around to say, his family, friends, hometown, etc... People outside of his comfort zone.

[angrymissy]

Silly question time:

If the kid was so embarrassed that it happened - embarrassed to the point that he killed himself of the shame - why did he report it to the RA and two superiors?

It's one thing to anonymously talk about it on a message board. It's another thing completely to report it "in real life". He did this with no prodding.

Up to that point, he was doing everything that people tell you do when you're a victim of being bullied - report it, document it, etc. He did everything right. So then why jump? Because something else happened.

I am going to sound like a broken record here, but I'll summarize:

Being open at school does not equal being open at home or to your family.

[angrymissy]

I hate the concept of hate crimes. Fact of it is, if this kid wasn't gay and was in the room with some girl and the filmed it I would hope they get the same punishment they will get now.

I am going to explain to you exactly why hate crimes are necessary.

My brother, while in high school, was jumped by 4 kids while getting off the bus, simply because he was gay, and they said "he looked at them the wrong way". They plotted it all day at school, yelling "we're gonna get you faggot". Teachers saw, didn't do shit.

So when I report this to the police, I assume they will immediately prosecute these kids on assault charges right?

Would you fucking believe that they told me the kid said my brother looked at them "suggestively" and almost acted like he was asking for it? IN FUCKING WESTCHESTER COUNTY. We're not talking Nebraska or some shit here. They didn't even immediately arrest the kid.

You know what got them moving? Having a lawyer contact them, and say we would move for hate crime charges, which would get the feds involved. Guess who was immediately arrested then?

My brother did not press hate crime charges, just pursued charges for the assault. But without that protection in place, we faced a bigoted police department who didn't want to do shit. I can only imagine that it's even worse in less progressive areas of the country.

[Snacks]

I am going to explain to you exactly why hate crimes are necessary.

My brother, while in high school, was jumped by 4 kids while getting off the bus, simply because he was gay, and they said "he looked at them the wrong way". They plotted it all day at school, yelling "we're gonna get you faggot". Teachers saw, didn't do shit.

So when I report this to the police, I assume they will immediately prosecute these kids on assault charges right?

Would you fucking believe that they told me the kid said my brother looked at them "suggestively" and almost acted like he was asking for it? IN FUCKING WESTCHESTER COUNTY. We're not talking Nebraska or some shit here. They didn't even immediately arrest the kid.

You know what got them moving? Having a lawyer contact them, and say we would move for hate crime charges, which would get the feds involved. Guess who was immediately arrested then?

My brother did not press hate crime charges, just pursued charges for the assault. But without that protection in place, we faced a bigoted police department who didn't want to do shit. I can only imagine that it's even worse in less progressive areas of the country.

let me ask you this. if your brother wasnt gay do you think that would have changed the way the police handled it? do you think the police would have arrested them without the same response? I dont know the whole story but I dont think it would change things as far as what the police did initially. They probably still would have made it out to be just 1 group of kids picking on/beating on another. crime is crime and I for one have always been against the term and charges "hate crime". Does someone being gay or of a different race mean that charges should be doubled because someone decided it was out of hate? I have always said when getting in a fight people will use the most nasty things they can say to someone to hurt them or egg them on. Do you really think if a black guy and white guy got into a fight and one started calling the other a N word or the other started calling the other a cracker etc. Dont you think that sometimes those words are thrown out to piss the other person off more? Do you not think that non racist people have used words like that during the heat of an argument to piss the other person off even more? Do you not think that during a fight you are going to use and say the nastiness stuff you can to get underneath the skin and piss someone off as much as you can? My point is charges shouldnt be trumped up because of words during a fight.

[angrymissy]

let me ask you this. if your brother wasnt gay do you think that would have changed the way the police handled it? do you think the police would have arrested them without the same response? I dont know the whole story but I dont think it would change things as far as what the police did initially. They probably still would have made it out to be just 1 group of kids picking on/beating on another. crime is crime and I for one have always been against the term and charges "hate crime". Does someone being gay or of a different race mean that charges should be doubled because someone decided it was out of hate? I have always said when getting in a fight people will use the most nasty things they can say to someone to hurt them or egg them on. Do you really think if a black guy and white guy got into a fight and one started calling the other a N word or the other started calling the other a cracker etc. Dont you think that sometimes those words are thrown out to piss the other person off more? Do you not think that non racist people have used words like that during the heat of an argument to piss the other person off even more? Do you not think that during a fight you are going to use and say the nastiness stuff you can to get underneath the skin and piss someone off as much as you can? My point is charges shouldnt be trumped up because of words during a fight.

I absolutely do think it would have been handled differently, considering what the police said to me. "well, we interviewed the kid that hit him, and he seemed to think your brother was coming on to him sexually, that's why this happened". The kid admits he beat the shit out of my brother, then says that, and is not arrested? They need to "investigate" after that? While the person in charge of the case basically tells me that, and says "well, that's why it happened"?

I know a girl in the same town, who simply got slapped in the face on the street, and that dude was arrested IMMEDIATELY.

By the way, this wasn't some simple fight. This kid and his friends put my brother in the hospital. It was a beatdown from behind. They broke his nose so badly that he had blood soaked through his clothes.

There is a difference between "words during a fight", and a premeditated attack on someone simply because they are gay, and as I said, once you throw Federal involvement in, it gets the local police moving fast. Do I think hate crimes should be used when someone says something in the heat of the moment? No. Do I think this situation with the Rutgers student constitutes a hate crime? No. Do I think they should be used for a premeditated attack on someone SIMPLY because they are gay? Absolutely. In this case, it got a restraining order put together for my brother QUICKLY, when the police were stalling beforehand... and my brother did not seek hate crime charges. He just wanted a restraining order, restitution for his ruined clothing and medical bills, and the kid to be prosecuted for what he had done.

I think hate crime charges are necessary until we, as a Country, get to a point where we're not dealing with local law enforcement that are going to pose a problem to minorities, gays, etc. If this happened to my brother in NY, I can only imagine the obstacles faced in other parts of the country.

[Snacks]

I absolutely do think it would have been handled differently, considering what the police said to me. "well, we interviewed the kid that hit him, and he seemed to think your brother was coming on to him sexually, that's why this happened". The kid admits he beat the shit out of my brother, then says that, and is not arrested? They need to "investigate" after that? While the person in charge of the case basically tells me that, and says "well, that's why it happened"?

I know a girl in the same town, who simply got slapped in the face on the street, and that dude was arrested IMMEDIATELY.

By the way, this wasn't some simple fight. This kid and his friends put my brother in the hospital. It was a beatdown from behind. They broke his nose so badly that he had blood soaked through his clothes.

There is a difference between "words during a fight", and a premeditated attack on someone simply because they are gay, and as I said, once you throw Federal involvement in, it gets the local police moving fast. Do I think hate crimes should be used when someone says something in the heat of the moment? No. Do I think this situation with the Rutgers student constitutes a hate crime? No. Do I think they should be used for a premeditated attack on someone SIMPLY because they are gay? Absolutely. In this case, it got a restraining order put together for my brother QUICKLY, when the police were stalling beforehand... and my brother did not seek hate crime charges. He just wanted a restraining order, restitution for his ruined clothing and medical bills, and the kid to be prosecuted for what he had done.

I think hate crime charges are necessary until we, as a Country, get to a point where we're not dealing with local law enforcement that are going to pose a problem to minorities, gays, etc. If this happened to my brother in NY, I can only imagine the obstacles faced in other parts of the country.

I dont understand how any cop could allow someone to admit they beat someone up and not arrests the person because that person said "he flirted with me or cam onto to me". How could you as a cop justify that was a good enough reason? Thats like saying a women has the right to hit every guy that flirts with her if she didnt want that guy to come on to her? Wow I just dont understand how someone can think its ok to do that? In all honesty why would anyone ever care if a gay person flirted with them? Take it as a compliment and tell them sorry Im straight.

So whatever happened? Did they pay your brother for his doctor bills/clothes, get any arrested, jail time etc?

[angrymissy]

I dont understand how any cop could allow someone to admit they beat someone up and not arrests the person because that person said "he flirted with me or cam onto to me". How could you as a cop justify that was a good enough reason? Thats like saying a women has the right to hit every guy that flirts with her if she didnt want that guy to come on to her? Wow I just dont understand how someone can think its ok to do that? In all honesty why would anyone ever care if a gay person flirted with them? Take it as a compliment and tell them sorry Im straight.

So whatever happened? Did they pay your brother for his doctor bills/clothes, get any arrested, jail time etc?

The worst part about it was, my brother did come on to this kid in any way, shape, or form. He'd been harassing my brother for a while, my brother would avoid him, cross the hall at school, ignore it, etc. etc. etc. It was an incredibly frustrating experience, especially considering my family has lived in this town for generations. I also got the "well, it's a big deal in their culture" excuse from the cop as well (the kid was South American who moved here when he was like 5 or something). Maybe the kid himself was a repressed homosexual or something, who knows!

After 4 days of nothing happening and the Detective/cop giving me an ever increasing attitude when I would call to see what was going on, we contacted a friend who was a lawyer, who started contacting the PD on our behalf and who mentioned the hate crime charges and bad publicity for the PD. Wow! Suddenly the kid was arrested and a restraining order issued.

Yes, the kid ended up paying restitution, was put on probation for 6 months, and had to volunteer for like 25 hours working with AIDS patients. Restraining order was extended to a year. He was not allowed to finish the year out at the High School, he was expelled and sent to another school. Fantastic part about that was, he knocked up some girl in my brothers senior class. When my brother went to his Senior prom, the kid was there, in full violation of the restraining order and expulsion (that the school knew about as well). Rather than make a big stink about it and ruin his prom, my Brother stayed away from him. When we called the police about it later on, they said "So, did you expect us to send a car there and drag him out of the prom?". I gave up after that. What a total fucking nightmare, and it really soured me on the local Police.

Honestly, I 100% believe this treatment was due to the fact that my brother is gay. I grew up in this town, and the Police there were DYING to arrest people. I saw people get arrested by bike cops for the lamest shit ever (loitering) my entire life. Then an open and shut assault case that includes a confession from the attacker comes their way and they do nothing about it and blame the victim? It really made me sick.

[Tenbatsuzen]

Someone finds out about the video that he knows will spread it around to say, his family, friends, hometown, etc... People outside of his comfort zone.

Does your opinion change on this if there's evidence that Tyler had a profile on a gay sex cam chat site?

[Tenbatsuzen]

Of course, there's the amateurs in cyberbullying - like the couple in Michigian who went after a 7 year old girl dying of a neurological disorder...

and then there's the cyberbullying that everyone can enjoy, when /b/ gets a hold of the above story and goes to work better than Kool Moe Dee.

[spoon]

Does your opinion change on this if there's evidence that Tyler had a profile on a gay sex cam chat site?

Why would that change anything at all?

[angrymissy]

Does your opinion change on this if there's evidence that Tyler had a profile on a gay sex cam chat site?

I know the entire background to the story, and no, it most certainly does not change my opinion.

There is a big difference between cam sexing with other gay guys on an internet site under an alias, and being outed via video by someone at your college where shittons of people who are local to you attend. Your parents or family aren't going to find you on a gay cam sex site. When your roommate invites people on twitter to view video of you hooking up with a dude, people then say, oh WHO is his roommate? Oh that guy? So and so went to High School with him. Then So and So gets told, then they tell someone else "did you know he was gay? And they caught him on video", and so on and so on until it gets back to people who know his family.

If this guy was truly out and openly gay, someone from his hometown, High School, family, yadda yadda yadda, would have mentioned it by now.

[angrymissy]

And fuck this asshole who filmed him. He deserves to get the book thrown at him, not under hate crime charges, but under the violation of privacy ones. They need to come down hard on people who do shit like this to deter others from doing it "as a joke" in the future. You don't videotape someone without their knowledge and broadcast it on the internet. It's criminal.

Plus, as more and more info comes out, it seems this Ravi was a fucking douche trying to mock his roommate prior to this. It's one thing to post "found out my roommate is gay", it's another thing to do that, and then post links to him discussing his sexuality on a gay message board. What a dick.

Ravi tweeted on Aug. 22, "Found out my roommate is gay," according to Forbes.com, and then posted a link to a gay men's website where Ravi said Clementi had placed posts.

Knowing the town they come from well, I'm sure Mommy and Daddy have already got high priced lawyers on the case.

[angrymissy]

I also read an interesting opinion on Gawker. It seems the initial post that the roommate linked when saying he found out his roommate was gay, was him under a different user name.

Based on what was posted, someone said, "What if the person posted about what happened on that message board was actually the ROOMMATE - trying to gauge reaction for what he had done, and trying to see exactly how much trouble he would get into? All speculation, but good points in this quoted comment from Gawker:

Could they have actually been from Ravi and not Clementi?

Yes, they could.

It's not far fetched. If you re-read the cit2mo posts, there are far more linguistic clues pointing to Ravi being concerned over if he's crossed over the line in any kind of serious legal trouble, than Clementi dealing with this roommate situation.

Bear with me in the reply for a few: Reply

Image of Polly Sorbate Polly Sorbate 10/02/10
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(Cont:)

"given the angle of the webcam I can be confident that that was all he could have seen."

-Only seeing what the camera viewed would anyone be sure of that.

"and idk....if I could....it would be nice to get him in trouble but idk if I have enough to get him in trouble,..."

-First thing cit2mo is wondering is if he could get this roommate in trouble.

..."i mean....he never saw anything pornographic....he never recorded anything...."

-How would cit2mo know this for sure? cit2mo would know if he had been sexual in the room to rule that out, but cit2mo would not know if anything was recorded. Only Ravi or the viewers would know.

-Why would cit2mo refer to his own sexual activity as "pornographic?" anyway. It doesn't fit except for someone who is focused on the legal points of it. Again, Clementi could not know if Ravi or anyone else recorded it.

".I mean aside from being an asshole from time to time, he's a pretty decent roommate."

Sure, he is.

"oh yah, on the school website it says recording people where there is an expectation of privacy (bathroom bedroom etc) without the consent of everyone involved could.....COULD......result in being expelled

the only things is....there are too many'could's .....the fact that he didn't ACTUALLY record me (to my knowledge) and the fact that the school really prolly won't do much of anything....."

-Once again, cit2mo did not have any way of knowing if he was recorded, and now he admits "to his knowledge" he doesn't actually know for sure. But, earlier cit2mo said for sure he wasn't, when he was mulling if Ravi could get in legal trouble: "i mean....he never saw anything pornographic....he never recorded anything...." Inconsistent.

"I ran to the nearest RA and set this thing in motion......
we'll see what happens........"

-"Ran to"? Odd choice of words for oneself, especially in this situation. Someone who got told on would more commonly use "ran to".

My Spidey senses have been tingling ever since I first read the cit2mo posts that they were not from Clementi. These linguistic clues never set right for me from the start, and these new updates to the story only reinforces cit2mo isn't Clementi.. not that it is.

[Tenbatsuzen]

Knowing the town they come from well, I'm sure Mommy and Daddy have already got high priced lawyers on the case.

No offense -- but that class bias behavior right there. It's the same as saying that someone is white trash. Ravi and Wei were upper-middle to lower-upper class, but so was Clementi.


I have absolutely no issue with the fact that Ravi should be nailed to the wall on privacy charges. That much is legitimate. They should be kicked out of Rutgers, and if not do jail time, at the very least, do a shit-ton of community service. It's already been well established that Ravi is a douche.

I am not sure what role Wei played in this and there doesn't seem to be a lot of detail on this. Playing Devil's advocate, as cops always don't understand cybercrime, they picked her up because they (Ravi?) was setting it up or tweeting on her computer.

That said, I want to know how Ravi found out Tyler was gay if he didn't tell him according to the 8/22 tweet.

Rutgers students don't move in til a week later, on 8/28. Which means one of two things:

1) Tyler told him
2) Tyler sent him an email and Ravi googled it.

Either way, not closeted behavior.

[angrymissy]

No offense -- but that class bias behavior right there. It's the same as saying that someone is white trash. Ravi and Wei were upper-middle to lower-upper class, but so was Clementi.


I have absolutely no issue with the fact that Ravi should be nailed to the wall on privacy charges. That much is legitimate. They should be kicked out of Rutgers, and if not do jail time, at the very least, do a shit-ton of community service. It's already been well established that Ravi is a douche.

I am not sure what role Wei played in this and there doesn't seem to be a lot of detail on this. Playing Devil's advocate, as cops always don't understand cybercrime, they picked her up because they (Ravi?) was setting it up or tweeting on her computer.

That said, I want to know how Ravi found out Tyler was gay if he didn't tell him according to the 8/22 tweet.

Rutgers students don't move in til a week later, on 8/28. Which means one of two things:

1) Tyler told him
2) Tyler sent him an email and Ravi googled it.

Either way, not closeted behavior.

Tough shit for them. I don't feel sorry for kids who have Mommy and Daddy bail them out. Mommies and Daddies are the ones who are creating these entitled little shits who do things like then and then expect no consequences.

Ravi found out he was gay by seeing his posts on his computer on a gay message board. After tweeting he found out he was gay, he then posted a link showing Tylers posts on the gay message board.

You have no idea what is closeted vs not closeted behavior. I'm sorry to be blunt, but you don't, especially from what you posted here. You're making blanket statements based on how you feel gay people act. There are many, many different levels of being out. Even if he TOLD his roommate he was gay, like I said before, college is a place where gay teens go and test the waters. You can get out at school and definitely not out to your family.

[Tenbatsuzen]

I also read an interesting opinion on Gawker. It seems the initial post that the roommate linked when saying he found out his roommate was gay, was him under a different user name.

Based on what was posted, someone said, "What if the person posted about what happened on that message board was actually the ROOMMATE - trying to gauge reaction for what he had done, and trying to see exactly how much trouble he would get into? All speculation, but good points in this quoted comment from Gawker:

That's all well and good, but did anyone look at the Cit2Mo account and see when it was created and the past post history of Cit2mo? All of this speculation could be easily stopped if it wasn't him.

Creating some dumbfuck conspiracy that Ravi purposely went on a gay site to gauge this is really, REALLY out there. He would know damn well there would be a problem, why go into the belly of the beast to see what kind of trouble he would get into?

All of this would be solved with a simple IP ping too.

[Tenbatsuzen]

Ravi found out he was gay by seeing his posts on his computer on a gay message board. After tweeting he found out he was gay, he then posted a link showing Tylers posts on the gay message board.

How? Ravi tweeted on 8/22 that the roommate was gay, Rutgers move-in wasn't til 8/28.

[StanUpshaw]

Give it a rest dude. Unless you have a gay brother you don't get to have an opinion.

[Tenbatsuzen]

You have no idea what is closeted vs not closeted behavior. I'm sorry to be blunt, but you don't, especially from what you posted here. You're making blanket statements based on how you feel gay people act. There are many, many different levels of being out. Even if he TOLD his roommate he was gay, like I said before, college is a place where gay teens go and test the waters. You can get out at school and definitely not out to your family.

Double-edged sword: You're telling me that his friends, family, everyone around him didn't know he was gay, but the first thing he does when he gets to school is tell his roommate, a complete stranger, that he's gay? Absolutely does not make sense, even with the levels you talk about of outness.

And just like you said that people haven't said Tyler was out, well, I haven't seen people say Tyler was in the closet either. People are making assumptions either way.

[Tenbatsuzen]

Give it a rest dude. Unless you have a gay brother you don't get to have an opinion.

Cousin.

[Tenbatsuzen]

I also read an interesting opinion on Gawker. It seems the initial post that the roommate linked when saying he found out his roommate was gay, was him under a different user name.

Based on what was posted, someone said, "What if the person posted about what happened on that message board was actually the ROOMMATE - trying to gauge reaction for what he had done, and trying to see exactly how much trouble he would get into? All speculation, but good points in this quoted comment from Gawker:

http://blogs-images.forbes.com/kashmirhill/files/2010/09/Tyler-Clementi.jpg

Not Ravi.

[Tenbatsuzen]

What Ravi was doing was an invasion of privacy, but not really a hate crime. When he 'dared' people to IChat him, what he was basically doing was doing a "live" version of someone giving you a blind link to Lemonparty, Tubgirl or Goatse - an image that is way out of your sexual comfort zone to annoy you.


Douchey, yes. Prank, yes. But I don't think it's as dark and malicious as it's painted to be.

[angrymissy]

Give it a rest dude. Unless you have a gay brother you don't get to have an opinion.

Do you have anything of substance to add, or do you just want to be a dick?

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, I have personal experience with this topic, so I share.

[angrymissy]

Double-edged sword: You're telling me that his friends, family, everyone around him didn't know he was gay, but the first thing he does when he gets to school is tell his roommate, a complete stranger, that he's gay? Absolutely does not make sense, even with the levels you talk about of outness.

And just like you said that people haven't said Tyler was out, well, I haven't seen people say Tyler was in the closet either. People are making assumptions either way.

It absolutely does make sense, as college is where a lot of people become free with being gay.

But I doubt he was told by Tyler. Why would Tyler give him a link to a gay message board he was posting on. I think he either had a screen name for Tyler or whatever, did internet search, and came up with the message board posts, and figured it out himself.

[angrymissy]

That's all well and good, but did anyone look at the Cit2Mo account and see when it was created and the past post history of Cit2mo? All of this speculation could be easily stopped if it wasn't him.

Creating some dumbfuck conspiracy that Ravi purposely went on a gay site to gauge this is really, REALLY out there. He would know damn well there would be a problem, why go into the belly of the beast to see what kind of trouble he would get into?

All of this would be solved with a simple IP ping too.

The IP resolved to Rutgers. Takes more than that to get the actual computer. They suponead Rutgers for electronic communications from all of them, so it will probably come out.

It's really not as crazy as what everyone else has been floating out there.

[Tenbatsuzen]

It absolutely does make sense, as college is where a lot of people become free with being gay.

But I doubt he was told by Tyler. Why would Tyler give him a link to a gay message board he was posting on. I think he either had a screen name for Tyler or whatever, did internet search, and came up with the message board posts, and figured it out himself.

That kinda circles back to the not exactly closeted behavior, you know? If he was free with the Cit2Mo screen name with a complete stranger, then what's to stop family, friends, etc. at home googling it?

[angrymissy]

and it goes back to what I said about kids coming out in college, but not to their family

[Tenbatsuzen]

and it goes back to what I said about kids coming out in college, but not to their family

But the Cit2Mo screen name was established at least 3 years ago, just like I have an established screen name and you have an established screen name.

I think we can both agree that there's too much evidence on EITHER side to indicate whether Tyler was in or out of the closet.

This is a very complex case and there's a lot of variable factors that go into it.

[Justice4all]

Because Ravi tweeted that his roommate was gay back in August. That's outing with the same audience. (on twitter) Kid didn't jump then.

Someone who is closeted doesn't hook up with a guy in their dorm room. That's pretty open behavior.

that's open behavior for his dorm. But not for his whole school (all three campus's) or his family.

And if the roommate tweeted back in August the kid was gay, it shows he had a problem with that fact. If he didn't it would not have been a point of his tweet.

[Justice4all]

Maybe he was just filming his roommate having sex as a prank., Its not his fault he happens to fuck guys.

Ive filmed a roommate at my shore house fucking on our couch. It just happened to be a right place right time moment. About 6 of the guys in my house get back from the bar and are sitting on the deck with a couple of girls we hung out with drinking beers and smoking some cigarettes. The video camera is sitting on the tabel and the outside lights are off. This other roommate comes home later with some random girl and apparently thinks we are still at the bar. They are making out on the couch and shit and nobody is paying much time til the girls shirt comes off. Then we realize that we can see in but unless he walks right up to the door he cant see out. Out came the video camera. An hour later we had it hooked up to the tv and eventually every kid we knew in Sea Isle had seen it. Same thing happened the next year with a different couple.

We didnt do it to hurt the girls reputation or to offend the kid. We did it as a gag because he didnt know we were there. And of course once the story got out everyone that ever walked into the shore house asked to see it.

What Im saying is maybe a joke is just a joke. What would it have been if someone this girl knew told her about the tape and she killed herself because she was so embarrassed? Would we have gone from a bunch of guys pulling a practical joke to "bullies forcing kids to kill themselves"? Its ridiculous.

No..but it makes those actions creepy as hell still.

[Justice4all]

I am going to explain to you exactly why hate crimes are necessary.

My brother, while in high school, was jumped by 4 kids while getting off the bus, simply because he was gay, and they said "he looked at them the wrong way". They plotted it all day at school, yelling "we're gonna get you faggot". Teachers saw, didn't do shit.

So when I report this to the police, I assume they will immediately prosecute these kids on assault charges right?

Would you fucking believe that they told me the kid said my brother looked at them "suggestively" and almost acted like he was asking for it? IN FUCKING WESTCHESTER COUNTY. We're not talking Nebraska or some shit here. They didn't even immediately arrest the kid.

You know what got them moving? Having a lawyer contact them, and say we would move for hate crime charges, which would get the feds involved. Guess who was immediately arrested then?

My brother did not press hate crime charges, just pursued charges for the assault. But without that protection in place, we faced a bigoted police department who didn't want to do shit. I can only imagine that it's even worse in less progressive areas of the country.


If I remember correctly, you posted about when this happened.

[Tenbatsuzen]

No..but it makes those actions creepy as hell still.

No one is saying Ravi isn't a dick and violated privacy by doing this to Tyler. The point of contention was is this a hate crime and did it cause him to jump.

[Justice4all]

Double-edged sword: You're telling me that his friends, family, everyone around him didn't know he was gay, but the first thing he does when he gets to school is tell his roommate, a complete stranger, that he's gay? Absolutely does not make sense, even with the levels you talk about of outness.

And just like you said that people haven't said Tyler was out, well, I haven't seen people say Tyler was in the closet either. People are making assumptions either way.

Think about it for a moment. Is it possible that they met up before the big move in and Tyler told him, privately, 'look, if I have someone over and it's a guy, don't freak out'.

If my roommate was gay I wouldn't care but WOULD like a heads up before he started bringing home guys instead of have a bomb dropped on me when he finally did bring one home. It makes things less tense/uncomfortable. Besides, it gives Ravi an opportunity to find other housing if he has a problem with it. I know I am removed from dorm situations for 20 year almost, but if I am not mistaken, they give some kids chances to change their rooming situation if they have an issue with a roommate or what have you.

[Justice4all]

No one is saying Ravi isn't a dick and violated privacy by doing this to Tyler. The point of contention was is this a hate crime and did it cause him to jump.

I was trying to say what Tripleskeet did was creepy, wasn't meant to be about Ravi/Tyler

[Tenbatsuzen]

Think about it for a moment. Is it possible that they met up before the big move in and Tyler told him, privately, 'look, if I have someone over and it's a guy, don't freak out'.

If my roommate was gay I wouldn't care but WOULD like a heads up before he started bringing home guys instead of have a bomb dropped on me when he finally did bring one home. It makes things less tense/uncomfortable. Besides, it gives Ravi an opportunity to find other housing if he has a problem with it. I know I am removed from dorm situations for 20 year almost, but if I am not mistaken, they give some kids chances to change their rooming situation if they have an issue with a roommate or what have you.

Ravi was living with Tyler for three weeks. If this was a hate crime, that Ravi "hates the gays", Ravi would have moved out after 2 days. If Ravi was that disgusted, he could have commuted from home - Plainsboro is less than a 25 minute commute to New Brunswick.

That's another key factor - a bully wouldn't like to share his living space with the object of his bullying, which kinda moves this away from hate crime territory as well. Tyler complained of nothing else except for the webcam stuff, so it wasn't like Ravi was brutalizing him the entire time.

Tyler had no complaints about Ravi except there was a personality clash and the webcamming. It wasn't like Ravi was picking on Tyler and it escalated to this. From Tyler's own admission on the justusboys site, his only issue was the spying and he reported it.

[Justice4all]

Ravi was living with Tyler for three weeks. If this was a hate crime, that Ravi "hates the gays", Ravi would have moved out after 2 days. If Ravi was that disgusted, he could have commuted from home - Plainsboro is less than a 25 minute commute to New Brunswick.

That's another key factor - a bully wouldn't like to share his living space with the object of his bullying, which kinda moves this away from hate crime territory as well. Tyler complained of nothing else except for the webcam stuff, so it wasn't like Ravi was brutalizing him the entire time.

Tyler had no complaints about Ravi except there was a personality clash and the webcamming. It wasn't like Ravi was picking on Tyler and it escalated to this. From Tyler's own admission on the justusboys site, his only issue was the spying and he reported it.


My brother had a similar situation when he was in college. He requested a new roommate since the old one was writing creepy things in red pen on the walls and bed. (things like kill, murder...red flag words and phrases) as well as posters. Having a personality clash can be enough to want a new roommate or move to other housing.

I don't think Ravi needed to be a bully, or was being a bully, but I see enough information (based on what is being presented here) that Ravi did NOT like having a gay roommate.

And besides....what kid do YOU know who wants to commute to college when he can get away from home and dorm at the school. Not many I know want to stay home when they go away to school, I can tell you that.

[Tenbatsuzen]

I don't think Ravi needed to be a bully, or was being a bully, but I see enough information (based on what is being presented here) that Ravi did NOT like having a gay roommate.

And besides....what kid do YOU know who wants to commute to college when he can get away from home and dorm at the school. Not many I know want to stay home when they go away to school, I can tell you that.

I think your second paragraph ties into your first paragraph here. Ravi's 18, privileged kid, he's away from home and in a dorm room with a gay kid that takes him out of his comfort zone and bringing older men into their dorm room to hook up with. Quiet shy kid but being sexual. Ravi could have been creeped out by it.

Just because you're uncomfortable with the situation doesn't mean you're committing a hate crime or you hate gays. If I was 18 and wasn't that familiar with the gay community, I probably wouldn't feel that great about living with someone who was gay either.

[Justice4all]

Just because you're uncomfortable with the situation doesn't mean you're committing a hate crime or you hate gays.

This I do agree with.

[Justice4all]

And now even a NY gubernatorial candidate is saying being gay 'isn't an option'. (http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/10/10/new.york.paladino.gays/index.html?hpt=T1)

[spoon]

Ravi was living with Tyler for three weeks. If this was a hate crime, that Ravi "hates the gays", Ravi would have moved out after 2 days. If Ravi was that disgusted, he could have commuted from home - Plainsboro is less than a 25 minute commute to New Brunswick.

That's another key factor - a bully wouldn't like to share his living space with the object of his bullying, which kinda moves this away from hate crime territory as well. Tyler complained of nothing else except for the webcam stuff, so it wasn't like Ravi was brutalizing him the entire time.

Tyler had no complaints about Ravi except there was a personality clash and the webcamming. It wasn't like Ravi was picking on Tyler and it escalated to this. From Tyler's own admission on the justusboys site, his only issue was the spying and he reported it.

Yep, that includes women living with men/husbands. God knows they are never bullied, mentally or physically abused. Most of the time they look for people not living with them. Can't be bullying at all. Case solved, thanks tenbats esquire.

[TripleSkeet]

If I remember correctly, you posted about when this happened.

I dont think so. How much expectation of privacy can you have when you fuck in the living room of a shore house where 10 people are living???

[Melk]

With the number of people who are posting rants about this not being a hate crime, how many of us are actually calling this a hate crime?

[angrymissy]

I don't consider this a hate crime. I think the roommate was the type of douche that would do this to anyone, straight or gay. I also don't think he realized what the consequences mentally could be to outing someone.

That being said, I think they need to be punished severely to set precedence and prevent kids from doing shit like this in the future (to other kids gay OR straight). With all this technology now, it's bound to keep happening. Make the punishment severe to deter kids from even thinking about doing shit like this.

[Justice4all]

I dont think so. How much expectation of privacy can you have when you fuck in the living room of a shore house where 10 people are living???

Pointing to your friend and bringing everyone to the window so they can look in and laugh is one thing...pulling out the camera to film them and show it to the whole world?

I know someone who did the same thing, started fucking in the middle of the living room at a beach house they shared with other friends. Wasn't the smartest thing in the world they did, but nobody stopped to film it. They just talked about it the next day and years to come. It was the chocolate syrup that made it legendary.

Not everyone wants their stupid mistakes broadcast for the world to see.

And the posting about it when it happened part was for Missy, I remember when that happened to her brother.

[TripleSkeet]

Pointing to your friend and bringing everyone to the window so they can look in and laugh is one thing...pulling out the camera to film them and show it to the whole world?

I know someone who did the same thing, started fucking in the middle of the living room at a beach house they shared with other friends. Wasn't the smartest thing in the world they did, but nobody stopped to film it. They just talked about it the next day and years to come. It was the chocolate syrup that made it legendary.

Not everyone wants their stupid mistakes broadcast for the world to see.

And the posting about it when it happened part was for Missy, I remember when that happened to her brother.

It wasnt something that was planned, the camera was sitting there and somebody just decided to grab it so the roommates that hadnt come home yet could see it later.

It doesnt matter, if people decide to fuck in a public place, and yes the living room of a shorehouse with 10 roommates IS a public place, then you have no business being mad if someone happens to film it. Im sure now with phones capable of video it happens even more. And the roommate it happened to, even thopugh embarrassed, obviously agreed as he never got mad or tried saying anything to us. In his own words "I knew I shouldve just brought her up to my room."

[Tenbatsuzen]

NJ hands down a 15-count indictment on Ravi, including bias crime charges.


http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2011/04/grand_jury_hands_down_15-count.html

I love the grandstanding the AG makes. The main issue with the case is an invasion of privacy. IT'S NOT A BIAS CRIME.

They absolutely will not be able to make the bias charges stick. I guarantee it.

[TripleSkeet]

That poor kid is gonna do jail time for a silly practical joke. Its ridiculous. Even if they dont get the bias charges to stick, which they shouldnt, they are still gonna try and make an example of this guy. Damn shame.

[weekapaugjz]

That poor kid is gonna do jail time for a silly practical joke. Its ridiculous. Even if they dont get the bias charges to stick, which they shouldnt, they are still gonna try and make an example of this guy. Damn shame.

if your son was the one who killed himself, would you still say it was a silly practical joke?

[dereckfishboy]

if your son was the one who killed himself, would you still say it was a silly practical joke?

Oh my god, what a weak fucking argument. I have kids, and I am the first to admit that if anything happened to them, then I would not be a person fit to gauge what rational judgement on the matter is. That's eye-for-an-eye bullshit and has no place in a logical discussion about what is right or not. The victims and the accused have a special viewpoint that cannot possibly be objective, so if you find yourself thinking "what if that was my son" instead of "what if I were the accused or the victim", it's a bullshit argument and a weak substitute for an actual good point. When you stoop to that shit, you've already lost the debate.

[TripleSkeet]

if your son was the one who killed himself, would you still say it was a silly practical joke?

Yes. If your son was the one who was looking at 15 years in jail for a practical joke, would you still be standing there saying he deserves it?

[TripleSkeet]

Oh my god, what a weak fucking argument. I have kids, and I am the first to admit that if anything happened to them, then I would not be a person fit to gauge what rational judgement on the matter is. That's eye-for-an-eye bullshit and has no place in a logical discussion about what is right or not. The victims and the accused have a special viewpoint that cannot possibly be objective, so if you find yourself thinking "what if that was my son" instead of "what if I were the accused or the victim", it's a bullshit argument and a weak substitute for an actual good point. When you stoop to that shit, you've already lost the debate.

It doesnt matter, Im not the type of person to let a personal interest change my views. This guy had no intention of having this kid hurt himself. He played a dumb practical joke and deserves a punishment that fits the crime, not one that will scare anyone else from ever making fun of a person again. Thats not what America is about. If I supported laws like that I would move to the middle east where they cut your hands off for stealing.

Personally, Ive always laughed at gay jokes, as I do any jokes making fun of any kind of people. I also laugh at AIDS jokes, providing they are funny. I mean I am an O and A fan. A few years back my gay brother contracted HIV at 23 years old. I feel for him, I really do. And while I personally dont usually make AIDS jokes, if I hear them on the radio or on tv I dont get offended NOW that I know someone that has it. I laugh just like I always did. How fucking hypocritical would that be to criticize others about jokes I once found funny because now they hit close to home???

As far as this case goes, I personally hope Im doing the best at raising my kids to be stronger then this poor boy. I want them to know that no matter how bad or ugly life gets, its the greatest gift in the world and you dont ever throw it away. You just keep your head up and keep going and it will get better. It always does. I really feel bad for this kid but I dont blame his suicide on his roommate. I blame it on weakness.

[weekapaugjz]

Yes. If your son was the one who was looking at 15 years in jail for a practical joke, would you still be standing there saying he deserves it?

i'm not saying he deserves the kid deserves to get 15 years but he needs to get a substantial punishment. in no way is he a "poor kid" as you put it earlier. i do not think this is a hate crime and in no way think it solely falls on the kid who filmed it. actions have consequences and unfortunately someone lost their life in this nonsense. if you truly feel the kid should have no punishment whatsoever, you are entitled to your opinion, but we couldn't be further in our points of view.

[weekapaugjz]

Oh my god, what a weak fucking argument. I have kids, and I am the first to admit that if anything happened to them, then I would not be a person fit to gauge what rational judgement on the matter is. That's eye-for-an-eye bullshit and has no place in a logical discussion about what is right or not. The victims and the accused have a special viewpoint that cannot possibly be objective, so if you find yourself thinking "what if that was my son" instead of "what if I were the accused or the victim", it's a bullshit argument and a weak substitute for an actual good point. When you stoop to that shit, you've already lost the debate.

i'm not stooping to any shit. i was simply asking skeet a question about his point of view. and saying someone's question is "shit" or "weak fucking argument" is an awesome way to conduct a debate.

[Tenbatsuzen]

I agree that the kid needs to do time. 15 years? No. But at least a year or two at a minimum security facility.

I said this before - it was a practical joke because he wanted to set it up like a blind link to lemonparty. If someone sends you a link to lemonparty, do you hate the gays? No. You just want to put someone out of their sexual comfort zone.

You can't prove bias crime because from what I've read, Ravi had gay friends in high school. You put them on the stand. "Are you gay?" Yes. "Was Ravi friends with you?" Yes. "Did Ravi know you were gay?" Yes. Reasonable doubt is now in play for a bias crime.

[Furtherman]

I really feel bad for this kid but I dont blame his suicide on his roommate. I blame it on weakness.

actions have consequences and unfortunately someone lost their life in this nonsense.


I agree TripleSkeet. It was a mean joke, and the guy seems to be a dickhead, but he didn't make that kid jump.

No one lost their life, a life was ended by his own doing.

[foodcourtdruide]

I agree TripleSkeet. It was a mean joke, and the guy seems to be a dickhead, but he didn't make that kid jump.

No one lost their life, a life was ended by his own doing.

Agreed. If I steal someone's wallet and they kill themselves because of it, should I be put on trial for murder? Just sounds insane.

[CountryBob]

I agree TripleSkeet. It was a mean joke, and the guy seems to be a dickhead, but he didn't make that kid jump.

No one lost their life, a life was ended by his own doing.

Agreed. If I steal someone's wallet and they kill themselves because of it, should I be put on trial for murder? Just sounds insane.

Agree, Agree and Agree

[Tenbatsuzen]

I agree TripleSkeet. It was a mean joke, and the guy seems to be a dickhead, but he didn't make that kid jump.

No one lost their life, a life was ended by his own doing.

Big time agreement.

[TripleSkeet]

i'm not saying he deserves the kid deserves to get 15 years but he needs to get a substantial punishment. in no way is he a "poor kid" as you put it earlier. i do not think this is a hate crime and in no way think it solely falls on the kid who filmed it. actions have consequences and unfortunately someone lost their life in this nonsense. if you truly feel the kid should have no punishment whatsoever, you are entitled to your opinion, but we couldn't be further in our points of view.

Whoa whoa whoa. I never said the kid doesnt deserve any punishment whatsoever. I said I feel bad for this kid because they are going to try and completely overpunish him to try and make an example and pacify the people that claim he was "cyberbullied to death". The crime was invasion of privacy, and thats the crime he deserves to be punished for. But tampering with evidence for deleting his Twitter post??? Really?? And a bias crime? Its overkill.

[Snacks]

Whoa whoa whoa. I never said the kid doesnt deserve any punishment whatsoever. I said I feel bad for this kid because they are going to try and completely overpunish him to try and make an example and pacify the people that claim he was "cyberbullied to death". The crime was invasion of privacy, and thats the crime he deserves to be punished for. But tampering with evidence for deleting his Twitter post??? Really?? And a bias crime? Its overkill.

I love how they just add charges on top of charges with almost every case just to make people plead guilty because the more charges the harder not to get convicted of something. Our legal system is really shitty. He deleted his tweets and his texts and whatever. Who WOULDNT do that? Even the invasion of privacy claim is tough. It was a SHARED dorm room. It was his room too. Is there really any privacy in a shared dorm room?

[Snoogans]

I love how they just add charges on top of charges with almost every case just to make people plead guilty because the more charges the harder not to get convicted of something. Our legal system is really shitty. He deleted his tweets and his texts and whatever. Who WOULDNT do that? Even the invasion of privacy claim is tough. It was a SHARED dorm room. It was his room too. Is there really any privacy in a shared dorm room?

the invasion of privacy comes from the fact he video taped something without consent and then released it to the public. It doesnt actually mean that he went into the kids room and filmed something he wasnt supposed to see. Regardless of who you share your housing with, what happens in the housing is private to the rest of the world and you need permission to share that outside of the housing.

If the kid had been doing the act outside of a private room, like in a field or under a tree or something, then they can film and release it all they want

[Tenbatsuzen]

The girl has flipped and is getting charges dropped to testify against Ravi.

Unless she has testimony to state that Ravi said something to add to the hate crime charges, I don't see what possibly she can add to the fact that he turned the camera on, which we already know he did.

[Tenbatsuzen]

Some new facts about the case were posted today:

1) Clementi came out to his parents. Dad was accepting, mom was not.

2) Ravi deduced Clementi was gay from his email address and tracing it to other gay websites.

3) Although Ravi did make fun of Clementi being gay - Clementi made fun of Ravi being an Indian.

4) Ravi was apparently very uncomfortable changing his clothes around Clementi.

[Tenbatsuzen]

Ravi's got a tremendous set of brass balls.

Ravi rejects plea deal that has no jail time, will go to trial (http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2011/12/do_not_publish_--_dharun_ravi.html)

Wow. Either the lawyer knows that the case is incredibly weak, especially on the bias intimidation charge, or it's horribly bad advice.

Maybe he just doesn't want to be convicted of the bias charge. I could see that.

[Snacks]

Ravi's got a tremendous set of brass balls.

Ravi rejects plea deal that has no jail time, will go to trial (http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2011/12/do_not_publish_--_dharun_ravi.html)

Wow. Either the lawyer knows that the case is incredibly weak, especially on the bias intimidation charge, or it's horribly bad advice.

Maybe he just doesn't want to be convicted of the bias charge. I could see that.

that is ballsy. the reason why so many people who arent guilty take plea deals are so they get no jail time or less jail time but dont realize that they still have a record that hurts them later. all the courts and prosecutors ever care about is their "win record" they dont care if you are truly guilty. they want to trump up charges so you get scared that you will do 30 years and plead you down to lesser charges just to get the win of a guilty plea.

our entire legal system sucks.

[Tenbatsuzen]

Thanks to Space Edge for this:

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2012/02/06/120206fa_fact_parker?currentPage=all

Great, long article detailing all the facts about the case.

What it basically sums up is this: Ravi's an asshole, an immature idiot, but what he did was not a hate crime.

[Tenbatsuzen]

Ravi's got a tremendous set of brass balls.

Ravi rejects plea deal that has no jail time, will go to trial (http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2011/12/do_not_publish_--_dharun_ravi.html)

Wow. Either the lawyer knows that the case is incredibly weak, especially on the bias intimidation charge, or it's horribly bad advice.

Maybe he just doesn't want to be convicted of the bias charge. I could see that.

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/indianajones/images/thumb/6/67/Knight.jpg/250px-Knight.jpg

You have chosen... poorly.

Sigh. The defense pretty much did all they could to inject REASONABLE DOUBT this was not a hate crime, including the fact that 1) Tyler was not intimidated by Ravi because he had another "date" after he knew Ravi was spying on him and 2) Multiple people said Ravi had no problem with gay people.

What pisses me off is that the news COMPLETELY fucked up because for 15 minutes after the verdict there was conflicting stories about him getting a mixed verdict (guilty on spying, not guilty on hate crime) and then it turned out he was guilty on everything.

Bad decision.

[KnoxHarrington]

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/indianajones/images/thumb/6/67/Knight.jpg/250px-Knight.jpg

You have chosen... poorly.

Sigh. The defense pretty much did all they could to inject REASONABLE DOUBT this was not a hate crime, including the fact that 1) Tyler was not intimidated by Ravi because he had another "date" after he knew Ravi was spying on him and 2) Multiple people said Ravi had no problem with gay people.

What pisses me off is that the news COMPLETELY fucked up because for 15 minutes after the verdict there was conflicting stories about him getting a mixed verdict (guilty on spying, not guilty on hate crime) and then it turned out he was guilty on everything.

Bad decision.

And the plea bargain he was offered would have prevented him from being deported, which he is undoubtedly going to be now.

[Tenbatsuzen]

The judge ends up being the most sane one in this trial, basically seeing through the jury's flawed conviction on the hate crime.

I don't think he should have gotten 30 days - little TOO lenient - but I would have been OK with six months.

That said, a couple of observations:

Tyler Clementi's mom is fucking disgusting. She calls for Ravi's blood when she did more damage to Tyler in 18 years than he could have dreamed of in 3 weeks. She then compares what Ravi did to Matthew Sheppard - a MURDER VICTIM - instead of a suicidal jumper.

She rejects her kid when he comes out, and now she wants to be a crusader for his memory? GET THE FUCK OUT.

The prosecutor, who was willing to do a plea deal with Ravi before the trial for no jail time, now wants to waste MORE taxpayers' money on this travesty because they aren't happy with 30 days?

BTW:

There was another Rutgers gay-straight roommate pairing. While the straight roommate was asleep, the gay roommate SEXUALLY ASSAULTED HIM.

Oh, where was the press on that?

[CountryBob]

The judge ends up being the most sane one in this trial, basically seeing through the jury's flawed conviction on the hate crime.

I don't think he should have gotten 30 days - little TOO lenient - but I would have been OK with six months.

That said, a couple of observations:

Tyler Clementi's mom is fucking disgusting. She calls for Ravi's blood when she did more damage to Tyler in 18 years than he could have dreamed of in 3 weeks. She then compares what Ravi did to Matthew Sheppard - a MURDER VICTIM - instead of a suicidal jumper.

She rejects her kid when he comes out, and now she wants to be a crusader for his memory? GET THE FUCK OUT.

The prosecutor, who was willing to do a plea deal with Ravi before the trial for no jail time, now wants to waste MORE taxpayers' money on this travesty because they aren't happy with 30 days?

BTW:

There was another Rutgers gay-straight roommate pairing. While the straight roommate was asleep, the gay roommate SEXUALLY ASSAULTED HIM.

Oh, where was the press on that?

Oh Im sure Fez will bring it up and defend the straight kid - - - NOT!

[Crispy123]

Is there a link to this gay rape story?

[Tenbatsuzen]

Is there a link to this gay rape story?

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2012/04/rutgers_student_pleads_guilty.html

[spoon]

Altman, who became involved in the two cases at about the same time, said the reason one became a major news story and the other escaped notice until now was "the power of the victim."

That does pretty much sum this up nicely. I never heard a thing on this until now to back it up.

[Crispy123]

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2012/04/rutgers_student_pleads_guilty.html

well he was a Korean gay so what did they expect???