The war on Christmas.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Well this time its not conjured up hysteria from Fox news claiming Atheists are hijacking the holiday



http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101127/ap_on_re_us/us_portland_car_bomb_plot

[Snacks]

you posted the wrong article. I think you wanted to post the one about atheist and their billboard at 1 of the tunnels that says "you know its a myth" and has the nativity scene?

its a nice billboard

[pennington]

http://d.yimg.com/a/p/ap/20101127/capt.cb275c2abf2244888f944e7943ec4d29-cb275c2abf2244888f944e7943ec4d29-0.jpg?x=213&y=266&xc=1&yc=1&wc=328&hc=410&q=85&sig=hVPJIKToJ3rKmDqCCgxZOw--

A 19 year old tough guy. I wonder what he'll look like after 40 years in federal prison.

[torker]

http://d.yimg.com/a/p/ap/20101127/capt.cb275c2abf2244888f944e7943ec4d29-cb275c2abf2244888f944e7943ec4d29-0.jpg?x=213&y=266&xc=1&yc=1&wc=328&hc=410&q=85&sig=hVPJIKToJ3rKmDqCCgxZOw--

A 19 year old tough guy. I wonder what he'll look like after 40 years in federal prison.

a little kool aid lipstick, and voila...
http://www.vibeweekly.com/mainsite/images/stories/slides/eababes/iman.jpg

[Furtherman]

Well this time its not conjured up hysteria from Fox news claiming Atheists are hijacking the holiday

Yes it is.

What you posted was an attempted terrorist act.

THIS is what we'll be hearing this year, which is the same shit from 5 years ago:

<table style='font:11px arial; color:#333; background-color:#f5f5f5' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='0' width='360' height='353'><tbody><tr style='background-color:#e5e5e5' valign='middle'><td style='padding:2px 1px 0px 5px;'><a target='_blank' style='color:#333; text-decoration:none; font-weight:bold;' href='http://www.thedailyshow.com'>The Daily Show With Jon Stewart</a></td><td style='padding:2px 5px 0px 5px; text-align:right; font-weight:bold;'>Mon - Thurs 11p / 10c</td></tr><tr style='height:14px;' valign='middle'><td style='padding:2px 1px 0px 5px;' colspan='2'<a target='_blank' style='color:#333; text-decoration:none; font-weight:bold;' href='http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-december-13-2005/christmas-with-the-kranks'>Christmas with the Kranks<a></td></tr><tr style='height:14px; background-color:#353535' valign='middle'><td colspan='2' style='padding:2px 5px 0px 5px; width:360px; overflow:hidden; text-align:right'><a target='_blank' style='color:#96deff; text-decoration:none; font-weight:bold;' href='http://www.thedailyshow.com/'>www.thedailyshow.com</a></td></tr><tr valign='middle'><td style='padding:0px;' colspan='2'><embed style='display:block' src='http://media.mtvnservices.com/mgid:cms:item:comedycentral.com:124107' width='360' height='301' type='application/x-shockwave-flash' wmode='window' allowFullscreen='true' flashvars='autoPlay=false' allowscriptaccess='always' allownetworking='all' bgcolor='#000000'></embed></td></tr><tr style='height:18px;' valign='middle'><td style='padding:0px;' colspan='2'><table style='margin:0px; text-align:center' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='0' width='100%' height='100%'><tr valign='middle'><td style='padding:3px; width:33%;'><a target='_blank' style='font:10px arial; color:#333; text-decoration:none;' href='http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-episodes/'>Daily Show Full Episodes</a></td><td style='padding:3px; width:33%;'><a target='_blank' style='font:10px arial; color:#333; text-decoration:none;' href='http://www.indecisionforever.com/'>Political Humor</a></td><td style='padding:3px; width:33%;'><a target='_blank' style='font:10px arial; color:#333; text-decoration:none;' href='www.facebook.com/thedailyshow'>The Daily Show on Facebook</a></td></tr></table></td></tr></tbody></table>

[DonInNC]

I hate the atheist versus Christmas debate. Mostly because I'm an athesist who celebrates christmas.

[Jayw]

I hate the atheist versus Christmas debate. Mostly because I'm an athesist who celebrates christmas.

Exactly. A lot of us are raised catholic and those traditions become part of you and your family until you get older and realize the god illusion is a joke. but christmas becomes a community thing whether you believe or not.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

http://d.yimg.com/a/p/ap/20101127/capt.cb275c2abf2244888f944e7943ec4d29-cb275c2abf2244888f944e7943ec4d29-0.jpg?x=213&y=266&xc=1&yc=1&wc=328&hc=410&q=85&sig=hVPJIKToJ3rKmDqCCgxZOw--

A 19 year old tough guy. I wonder what he'll look like after 40 years in federal prison.



That skinny doesnt have a chance

[StanUpshaw]

I hate the atheist versus Christmas debate. Mostly because I'm an athesist who celebrates christmas.

I don't know why you think this is any less offensive to believers than actively campaigning against the holiday. Christmas means one thing: Celebrating the birth of the son of God. Watering it down into some meaningless family get-together where you wear colorful sweaters and drink eggnog...that's just a more subtle destruction of the Holy day.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I don't know why you think this is any less offensive to believers than actively campaigning against the holiday. Christmas means one thing: Celebrating the birth of the son of God. Watering it down into some meaningless family get-together where you wear colorful sweaters and drink eggnog...that's just a more subtle destruction of the Holy day.

Never knew why people obsess over watching this.


<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Vf-4lCsLlpg?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Vf-4lCsLlpg?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

[A.J.]

"Hey there Mr. Muslim
Merry fucking Christmas
Put down that book the Koran
And hear some holiday wishes.

In case you haven't noticed
It's Jesus's birthday.
So get off your heathen Muslim ass
and fucking celebrate.

http://www.comedycentral.com/press/images/southpark/MrGarrison.jpg

[Bob Impact]

I don't know why you think this is any less offensive to believers than actively campaigning against the holiday. Christmas means one thing: Celebrating the birth of the son of God. Watering it down into some meaningless family get-together where you wear colorful sweaters and drink eggnog...that's just a more subtle destruction of the Holy day.

There's no such thing as a meaningless family get-together in my life.

[StanUpshaw]

How touching.

[epo]

I don't know why you think this is any less offensive to believers than actively campaigning against the holiday. Christmas means one thing: Celebrating the birth of the son of God. Watering it down into some meaningless family get-together where you wear colorful sweaters and drink eggnog...that's just a more subtle destruction of the Holy day.

So a holiday based in Pagan traditions is somehow celebrating the birth of a son of a holy being who most believe was born in September? Why can't the holiday simply be about the individuals interpretation of what's important to them?

Oh wait, the Pope said its about the Baby Jesus in 350 AD, so it must be true.

[pennington]

There's no such thing as a meaningless family get-together in my life.

Spend some time with my family.

[Snacks]

Exactly. A lot of us are raised catholic and those traditions become part of you and your family until you get older and realize the god illusion is a joke. but christmas becomes a community thing whether you believe or not.

thats exactly how I feel about Christmas. I dont celebrate the christian aspect of the holiday I celebrate the family and community aspect. Even if you dont believe, its a great way and reason to celebrate love and family. You dont need to believe in a deity in the sky or pray to give presents, have family over for big dinners and listen to beautiful christmas songs. I will always celebrate christmas, the secular version.

[OGC]

I don't know why you think this is any less offensive to believers than actively campaigning against the holiday. Christmas means one thing: Celebrating the birth of the son of God. Watering it down into some meaningless family get-together where you wear colorful sweaters and drink eggnog...that's just a more subtle destruction of the Holy day.


I just can't understand how people celebrating Christmas in whatever way they want, can affect your Christmas at all. Why should you consider your Holy day to be any less Holy just because someone else decides to wear a colorful sweater and drink some eggnog ?

Don't worry about what others do. Be happy in your own celebration.

[hanso]

Well this time its not conjured up hysteria from Fox news claiming Atheists are hijacking the holiday



http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101127/ap_on_re_us/us_portland_car_bomb_plot

They are pro-war even when they don't want it.

[Ritalin]

a little kool aid lipstick, and voila...
http://www.vibeweekly.com/mainsite/images/stories/slides/eababes/iman.jpg

That's pretty dead on. She's from Somalia, so it makes sense.

[Contra]

christmas trees smell good, presents are fun to get. the food is good, the music is fun and and triggers happy memories. Christmas is great, if you crazy people didn't want it hijacked you should have made it shittier. For example, who wants to celebrate kwanza this year instead?

[StanUpshaw]

So a holiday based in Pagan traditions is somehow celebrating the birth of a son of a holy being who most believe was born in September? Why can't the holiday simply be about the individuals interpretation of what's important to them?

Oh wait, the Pope said its about the Baby Jesus in 350 AD, so it must be true.

True? Who gives a fuck? No one is talking about historical fact.

I'm talking about the rhetoric surrounding the "war on Christmas." I'm talking about people commenting one moment that the fuss is invented by Fox News, while the next moment saying that they celebrate "Christmas" without believing in Christ! Completely oblivious that they're "waging war" in their own inconspicuous way.

Jesus fucking christ...am I the only one who watched A Charlie Brown Christmas?

[sailor]

way to derail a light-hearted thread about terrorist plots.

[Snacks]

True? Who gives a fuck? No one is talking about historical fact.

I'm talking about the rhetoric surrounding the "war on Christmas." I'm talking about people commenting one moment that the fuss is invented by Fox News, while the next moment saying that they celebrate "Christmas" without believing in Christ! Completely oblivious that they're "waging war" in their own inconspicuous way.

Jesus fucking christ...am I the only one who watched A Charlie Brown Christmas?

how is celebrating christmas a war on christmas? if anything there are more people celebrating it then should/would, which means more people are embracing christmas.

[StanUpshaw]

how is celebrating christmas a war on christmas? if anything there are more people celebrating it then should/would, which means more people are embracing christmas.

It's Christmas, and they're celebrating...but they aren't celebrating Christmas.


Say you work in an office, and someone from another department brings in treats because it's her birthday. You don't know her, you don't care about her, but you eat her cupcake anyway. You're taking part in the celebration, but does this make you her friend? Of course not. To call yourself one would diminish any meaning in the word.

And likewise, people who celebrate "Christmas" without Christ are only helping to water down the religious aspect of the holiday. Naturally, to those who value the day's holiness, it is a great offense.

[Snacks]

It's Christmas, and they're celebrating...but they aren't celebrating Christmas.


Say you work in an office, and someone from another department brings in treats because it's her birthday. You don't know her, you don't care about her, but you eat her cupcake anyway. You're taking part in the celebration, but does this make you her friend? Of course not. To call yourself one would diminish any meaning in the word.

And likewise, people who celebrate "Christmas" without Christ are only helping to water down the religious aspect of the holiday. Naturally, to those who value the day's holiness, it is a great offense.

christians themselves have watered it down enough.

and your little birthday scenario is perfect because you prove our point. do people at an office all celebrate and eat a piece of cake? they do even if they arent friends with or even like that person. they do it because its a social thing to do. we are a social society first before we are a christian one. do you have any jewish friends? do you ever wish them happy Hanukkah?

I was raised catholic and now that I have grown and used common sense along with living and learning I no longer am. But I love christmas for what it is other then the christian part of it. to say its not right to celebrate because we arent celebrating it for the reasons you are is wrong. you live your life and honor the lead character from your ancient book. I will do it my way by getting fat and buying things I dont need nor do the people I buy them for. Add to that giving to charities and helping my neighbors and friends. Im happy with my way of treating the holiday. Its a bigger and longer thanksgiving, nothing more!

The funny thing is most people who fight that they are believers and so christian dont even know what the true meaning of christams is. its not about a tree or presents. but that hasnt stopped them from enjoying the secular part of the holiday. dont be fooled the entire gift giving is 100% about money and not what the day is meant to be about. so for those who want christmas to be about jesus and jesus only I say to you, go to church, donate your time to the poor and do not exchange gifts. honor your boy jesus with doing good for all not by celebrating it like every other non religious/secular person does!

[StanUpshaw]

christians themselves have watered it down enough.

and your little birthday scenario is perfect because you prove our point. do people at an office all celebrate and eat a piece of cake? they do even if they arent friends with or even like that person. they do it because its a social thing to do. we are a social society first before we are a christian one. do you have any jewish friends? do you ever wish them happy Hanukkah?

I was raised catholic and now that I have grown and used common sense along with living and learning I no longer am. But I love christmas for what it is other then the christian part of it. to say its not right to celebrate because we arent celebrating it for the reasons you are is wrong. you live your life and honor the lead character from your ancient book. I will do it my way by getting fat and buying things I dont need nor do the people I buy them for. Add to that giving to charities and helping my neighbors and friends. Im happy with my way of treating the holiday. Its a bigger and longer thanksgiving, nothing more!

The funny thing is most people who fight that they are believers and so christian dont even know what the true meaning of christams is. its not about a tree or presents. but that hasnt stopped them from enjoying the secular part of the holiday. dont be fooled the entire gift giving is 100% about money and not what the day is meant to be about. so for those who want christmas to be about jesus and jesus only I say to you, go to church, donate your time to the poor and do not exchange gifts. honor your boy jesus with doing good for all not by celebrating it like every other non religious/secular person does!

I haven't passed judgment on how anyone chooses to spend the day. All I'm doing is trying to get people to stop lying to themselves about those choices. If your desire is to have a secular celebration, have some scruples and admit it. To pretend that you're celebrating the birth of Christ, when you have no intention of doing so, is extremely disrespectful to people who hold the day sacred.

[Stuft]

do you have any jewish friends? do you ever wish them happy Hanukkah?....dont be fooled the entire gift giving is 100% about money and not what the day is meant to be about. so for those who want christmas to be about jesus and jesus only I say to you, go to church, donate your time to the poor and do not exchange gifts. honor your boy jesus with doing good for all not by celebrating it like every other non religious/secular person does!


As a Christian who does understand and celebrates Christmas for the right reasons -
yes and yes, to the first part. Mainly because i'm respectful of what other people's observances are, whether i agree with their beliefs or not.

And you couldn't be more wrong about your philosophy on the gifts part -*100% it's about money*. The wisemen brought gifts - EXPENSIVE gifts- to the new parents, in celebration of their child's birth and to show their appreciation. Familiarize yourself with something before you piss all over it.

Merry Christmas! :smile:

[Snacks]

I haven't passed judgment on how anyone chooses to spend the day. All I'm doing is trying to get people to stop lying to themselves about those choices. If your desire is to have a secular celebration, have some scruples and admit it. To pretend that you're celebrating the birth of Christ, when you have no intention of doing so, is extremely disrespectful to people who hold the day sacred.

but none of these none believers has said they are celebrating for any other reason but the secular one? who is lying about it? no one. the religious people celebrate for the fake/created birthday of someone who may or may not be anything more then a man who lived 2000 years ago. the secular people celebrate it for all the fun, food, gifts and reason to get together. similar to the original reason for the winter solstice (except we no longer need to kill our cattle because they wont make it through winter)

[Snacks]

As a Christian who does understand and celebrates Christmas for the right reasons -
yes and yes, to the first part. Mainly because i'm respectful of what other people's observances are, whether i agree with their beliefs or not.

And you couldn't be more wrong about your philosophy on the gifts part -*100% it's about money*. The wisemen brought gifts - EXPENSIVE gifts- to the new parents, in celebration of their child's birth and to show their appreciation. Familiarize yourself with something before you piss all over it.

Merry Christmas! :smile:

yeah, what gifts were given 100, 150 years ago? none or very little if any. gifts now are given not as a symbol of the 3 wise mens gifts but to put money in the pocket of corporations. giving an ipod doesnt equal what the story is of jesus birth. lets see all the religious corporate ceos tell people to donate their money rather then by their products. lol yeah right but thats what good christians SHOULD do and say!

his birth isnt even dec 25. that was decided 200 or more years later. the entire religion is made or fabricated years after he died to control and create 1 main relgion. because at the time pagans and christians were killing each other over religion. it was like a treaty. right now if they DECIDED or voted differently the majority of you would be following a different religion. the problem is none of you ever chose your faith, it was forced on you. the same way we learn the sky is blue we learn religion and when your young you will believe any and everything you are told by adults. when you get older and can think for yourself, no rational thinking person can truly say they believe what they were taught. if they do that tells me they were so indoctrinated that they cant think for themselves.

all all you religious people no more going to the girl picture thread and no talking about vagina's and sex. its not very christian of you to be tempted by the devil! or are you all cafeteria christians and only pick what you follow based on what you like and dislike? If you agree with the bible then the bible is right. If you disagree with the bible then they are only stories? Right?

[keithy_19]

As a unabashed watcher of Fox News, I can say that when Bill O'Reilly promotes his "we say merry christmas" bumper sticker I get annoyed.

So what if you say merry christmas? Who cares? Celebrate christmas how you want and let others celebrate (or not celebrate) how they want.

As for disagreeing with celebrating christmas if you don't observe it as a religious holiday, who cares? We get so caught up with words in this country.

[StanUpshaw]

but none of these none believers has said they are celebrating for any other reason but the secular one? who is lying about it? no one. the religious people celebrate for the fake/created birthday of someone who may or may not be anything more then a man who lived 2000 years ago. the secular people celebrate it for all the fun, food, gifts and reason to get together. similar to the original reason for the winter solstice (except we no longer need to kill our cattle because they wont make it through winter)

As long as you're calling it Christmas, you're lying about it. The name carries a deep, inherent significance. To celebrate Christmas divorced from Jesus, you're either lying to yourself about your religiosity, or you're consciously disrespecting the beliefs of others by engaging in a farce.

[Snacks]

As a unabashed watcher of Fox News, I can say that when Bill O'Reilly promotes his "we say merry christmas" bumper sticker I get annoyed.

So what if you say merry christmas? Who cares? Celebrate christmas how you want and let others celebrate (or not celebrate) how they want.

As for disagreeing with celebrating christmas if you don't observe it as a religious holiday, who cares? We get so caught up with words in this country.

oreilly does it get the religious right all crazed and for ratings no more no less. i say happy holidays because it is the holidays season its not just christmas, there is kwanza (sp?) Hanukkah, new years, winter solstice etc. its so much easier to say happy holidays then trying to guess what someone believes or follows.

As long as you're calling it Christmas, you're lying about it. The name carries a deep, inherent significance. To celebrate Christmas divorced from Jesus, you're either lying to yourself about your religiosity, or you're consciously disrespecting the beliefs of others by engaging in a farce.

would you rather me call it xmas because thats what it is. its an X for whatever you want or choose to celebrate. you may need god or jesus to celebrate christmas but many people dont and more and more are moving away from religion. these same people who dont believe in jesus or have any use for him or those teachings still love the holidays themselves for every other reason. no matter what you call it people will celebrate as they see fit. I will not personally be bringing jesus into my celebration!

[hanso]

They have to wank off the religious right every third topic. It's in the fox news contract.

[OGC]

As long as you're calling it Christmas, you're lying about it. The name carries a deep, inherent significance. To celebrate Christmas divorced from Jesus, you're either lying to yourself about your religiosity, or you're consciously disrespecting the beliefs of others by engaging in a farce.


And how does this take away from your "true" Christmas celebration ?

[KnoxHarrington]

Someone's got Stan's back on this!


<table style='font:11px arial; color:#333; background-color:#f5f5f5' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='0' width='360' height='353'><tbody><tr style='background-color:#e5e5e5' valign='middle'><td style='padding:2px 1px 0px 5px;'><a target='_blank' style='color:#333; text-decoration:none; font-weight:bold;' href='http://www.colbertnation.com'>The Colbert Report</a></td><td style='padding:2px 5px 0px 5px; text-align:right; font-weight:bold;'>Mon - Thurs 11:30pm / 10:30c</td></tr><tr style='height:14px;' valign='middle'><td style='padding:2px 1px 0px 5px;' colspan='2'><a target='_blank' style='color:#333; text-decoration:none; font-weight:bold;' href='http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/258567/december-15-2009/the-blitzkrieg-on-grinchitude---treesus---christ-mas-tree'>The Blitzkrieg on Grinchitude - Treesus & CHRIST-mas Tree</a></td></tr><tr style='height:14px; background-color:#353535' valign='middle'><td colspan='2' style='padding:2px 5px 0px 5px; width:360px; overflow:hidden; text-align:right'><a target='_blank' style='color:#96deff; text-decoration:none; font-weight:bold;' href='http://www.colbertnation.com/'>www.colbertnation.com</a></td></tr><tr valign='middle'><td style='padding:0px;' colspan='2'><embed style='display:block' src='http://media.mtvnservices.com/mgid:cms:item:comedycentral.com:258567' width='360' height='301' type='application/x-shockwave-flash' wmode='window' allowFullscreen='true' flashvars='autoPlay=false' allowscriptaccess='always' allownetworking='all' bgcolor='#000000'></embed></td></tr><tr style='height:18px;' valign='middle'><td style='padding:0px;' colspan='2'><table style='margin:0px; text-align:center' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='0' width='100%' height='100%'><tr valign='middle'><td style='padding:3px; width:33%;'><a target='_blank' style='font:10px arial; color:#333; text-decoration:none;' href='http://www.colbertnation.com/full-episodes/'>Colbert Report Full Episodes</a></td><td style='padding:3px; width:33%;'><a target='_blank' style='font:10px arial; color:#333; text-decoration:none;' href='http://www.indecisionforever.com/'>2010 Election</a></td><td style='padding:3px; width:33%;'><a target='_blank' style='font:10px arial; color:#333; text-decoration:none;' href='http://www.colbertnation.com/video/tag/March%20to%20Keep%20Fear%20Alive'>March to Keep Fear Alive</a></td></tr></table></td></tr></tbody></table>

[StanUpshaw]

And how does this take away from your "true" Christmas celebration ?

plz read thread


And likewise, people who celebrate "Christmas" without Christ are only helping to water down the religious aspect of the holiday. Naturally, to those who value the day's holiness, it is a great offense.

[DonInNC]

OK, so I don't celebrate Chistmas. Now I'm one of those assholes who goes around saying "Happy Holidays" and demanding that the nativity scene be taken from the town square. I understand your frustration, but Christmas is a major part of our culture, thanks in no small part to the Church. Most people over the age of 12 understand the "true meaning" of the holiday, and we all have to come terms with how celebrating it conflicts with our beliefs. That applies to believers and non-believers alike.

[sailor]

OK, so I don't celebrate Chistmas. Now I'm one of those assholes who goes around saying "Happy Holidays" and demanding that the nativity scene be taken from the town square. I understand your frustration, but Christmas is a major part of our culture, thanks in no small part to the Church. Most people over the age of 12 understand the "true meaning" of the holiday, and we all have to come terms with how celebrating it conflicts with our beliefs. That applies to believers and non-believers alike.

you meant you're "not" one of them?

[TripleSkeet]

I just can't understand how people celebrating Christmas in whatever way they want, can affect your Christmas at all. Why should you consider your Holy day to be any less Holy just because someone else decides to wear a colorful sweater and drink some eggnog ?

Don't worry about what others do. Be happy in your own celebration.

I think its more the other way around. I dont see many Catholics screaming at people that decorate their home or office with Santa Claus shit. I see people freaking out when people try to set up a Nativity set.

Minding your business works both ways. Like it or not the Nativity IS a part of Christmas tradition for a huge segment of people in this country. If they want to celebrate that as part of their Christmas tradition, they should be able to without assholes jumping on their backs about "forcing religion" on them.

In my house, having a nativity set up is as much tradition as a Christmas tree. Without one it would feel like something big was missing in this house. I dont care if others celebrate it or not, as long as they dont tell me that I cant.

[JohnGacysCrawlSpace]

Christmas should be put on hold and should be celebrated every 3-5 years. I think that would be just enough time to recuperate from the bullshit of buying and decorating and forced cheer.

[spoon]

Christmas should be put on hold and should be celebrated every 3-5 years. I think that would be just enough time to recuperate from the bullshit of buying and decorating and forced cheer.

bite ur tongue, I LOVE forced cheer

[A.J.]

Festivus for the rest of us!

http://www.festivusweb.com/images/seinfeld-festivusjpg.jpg

[Snacks]

I think its more the other way around. I dont see many Catholics screaming at people that decorate their home or office with Santa Claus shit. I see people freaking out when people try to set up a Nativity set.

Minding your business works both ways. Like it or not the Nativity IS a part of Christmas tradition for a huge segment of people in this country. If they want to celebrate that as part of their Christmas tradition, they should be able to without assholes jumping on their backs about "forcing religion" on them.

In my house, having a nativity set up is as much tradition as a Christmas tree. Without one it would feel like something big was missing in this house. I dont care if others celebrate it or not, as long as they dont tell me that I cant.

i have never once heard 1 person or organization fight someone, an individual about putting the nativity scene on their property. NOT ONCE. I have heard them bitch about it when its does on public owned property like a town hall or court house. I personally dont care if they do it on public property but the people who do their point and argument is valid because it shows the govt promoting 1 religion over another. if they want to put santa at the court house, fine thats the secular all inclusive part of the holidays.!

I have heard catholics/christians fight that muslums dont have the right to open their mosques. so its ok when christians want to fight others holidays or just practicing their religion but not the other way around.

[Crispy123]

i have never once heard 1 person or organization fight someone, an individual about putting the nativity scene on their property. NOT ONCE. I have heard them bitch about it when its does on public owned property like a town hall or court house. I personally dont care if they do it on public property but the people who do their point and argument is valid because it shows the govt promoting 1 religion over another. if they want to put santa at the court house, fine thats the secular all inclusive part of the holidays.!

I have heard catholics/christians fight that muslums dont have the right to open their mosques. so its ok when christians want to fight others holidays or just practicing their religion but not the other way around.

Whatever you call him, Santa Claus, Father Christmas, or Saint Nicholas he is not secular.

[underdog]

i have never once heard 1 person or organization fight someone, an individual about putting the nativity scene on their property. NOT ONCE. I have heard them bitch about it when its does on public owned property like a town hall or court house. I personally dont care if they do it on public property but the people who do their point and argument is valid because it shows the govt promoting 1 religion over another. if they want to put santa at the court house, fine thats the secular all inclusive part of the holidays.!

Yeah, I never really hear anyone actually complaining about nativity scenes or people saying Merry Christmas. I just hear people complaining that other people are complaining about people saying Merry Christmas.

[Snacks]

Whatever you call him, Santa Claus, Father Christmas, or Saint Nicholas he is not secular.

santa claus is very secular. the santa claus you take pictures with has nothing to do with the fake birthday of jesus. he is 100% separate from the church and their christmas.

is the easter bunny part of the religious part of easter or is it some made up added bonus to make money and sell a cute bunny to kids?

[Crispy123]

Wrong. He is a religious figure. Originating from Norse Mythology and coopted by the Christians.

[Snacks]

Wrong. He is a religious figure. Originating from Norse Mythology and coopted by the Christians.

Sinterklass, saint nicholas, and santa claus are the same but different. when people think of the fat jolly, red hat, grey bearded guy they dont think religion they think of reindeer and xmas presents. it may have been taken by the christians but its not a religious symbol. if you want to call it that then call it a pagan.

[TripleSkeet]

Yeah, I never really hear anyone actually complaining about nativity scenes or people saying Merry Christmas. I just hear people complaining that other people are complaining about people saying Merry Christmas.

Most articles I see are about people complaining about nativity scenes in either public places like courthouses or parks, or in the workplace. Either way its fucking ridiculous. The nativity is part of Xmas whether you like it or not. If you dont like how someone decorates, how about just biting your tongue and dealing with it? I hate people that pick and choose what is allowed as decor. Thats just fucking annoying.

[cougarjake13]

That skinny doesnt have a chance

if he starts sucking a lot of dicks he will


and i mean a lot of dicks

[Furtherman]

http://media.nj.com/ledgerupdates_impact/photo/9079953-large.jpg

[A.J.]

That is so awesome.

[Pitdoc]

Sinterklass, saint nicholas, and santa claus are the same but different. when people think of the fat jolly, red hat, grey bearded guy they dont think religion they think of reindeer and xmas presents. it may have been taken by the christians but its not a religious symbol. if you want to call it that then call it a pagan.

Santa Claus didn't even wear red until a certain company wanted some brand recognition in the 30's .The Company?
Coca Cola.

[Snacks]

Santa Claus didn't even wear red until a certain company wanted some brand recognition in the 30's .The Company?
Coca Cola.

exactly! like i said secular not religious!

[Dougie Brootal]

You don't know her, you don't care about her, but you eat her cupcake anyway.


HOT!

[Crispy123]

exactly! like i said secular not religious!

Just because it doesn't match with YOUR religion doesn't make it secular.

[Snacks]

Just because it doesn't match with YOUR religion doesn't make it secular.

I have no religion and santa in his red hat, 8 reindeer, snow men and elves have nothing to do with religion. secular meaning separating it from religion, thats what these things do they separate it from the religious aspect to make it different from what the true religious holiday is!

You celebrate it with jesus and all but remove the none religious aspects from it and then its not secular. I will celebrate it without jesus and all the commercial stuff meaning it is secular.

[StanUpshaw]

Santa Claus didn't even wear red until a certain company wanted some brand recognition in the 30's .The Company?
Coca Cola.

For fucks sake dude. (http://www.snopes.com/holidays/christmas/santa/cocacola.asp)

[WRESTLINGFAN]

http://media.nj.com/ledgerupdates_impact/photo/9079953-large.jpg

http://www.lushtshirts.co.uk/images/products/god_atheist.jpg

[TripleSkeet]

http://media.nj.com/ledgerupdates_impact/photo/9079953-large.jpg

Whats the point of this? For people that hate religion, atheists are doing the SAME THING when they do shit like this. Trying to "enlighten" those that "dont know any better" and try to get them on their side. So dumb.

Wouldnt you look at someone like an ass if they put up a sign dedicated to something they didnt believe in like "Theres No Tooth Fairy! Your parents sneak money under your pillow!"? Yea, exactly.

[Furtherman]

Wouldnt you look at someone like an ass if they put up a sign dedicated to something they didnt believe in like "Theres No Tooth Fairy! Your parents sneak money under your pillow!"? Yea, exactly.

Not if you were trying to teach children the truth.

[Snacks]

Whats the point of this? For people that hate religion, atheists are doing the SAME THING when they do shit like this. Trying to "enlighten" those that "dont know any better" and try to get them on their side. So dumb.

Wouldnt you look at someone like an ass if they put up a sign dedicated to something they didnt believe in like "Theres No Tooth Fairy! Your parents sneak money under your pillow!"? Yea, exactly.

whats the point of these?

http://www.eternalgospelherald.com/Billboard%20-%20God's%20Way.jpg

http://www.tampabay.com/multimedia/archive/00106/b4s_billboard020810_106642c.jpg

http://i625.photobucket.com/albums/tt335/calm2k/GodsBillboardGIF.gif

why do non christians and non believers need to be told what to believe? ts the same shit and agnostic and atheist people are selling their message just like christians are. Sucks that they may get some former religious people to see the real truth , huh? Dont like competition in beliefs?


Its also their right we do have freedom of speech in this country. if you dont want your kids to know the truth then lie to them a little better. their kids if they ask continue to lie about jesus and everything else you teach them. their your kids you raise them. Its not anyone else's job to hide your kids from things you dont want them to see.

[Crispy123]

I have no religion and santa in his red hat, 8 reindeer, snow men and elves have nothing to do with religion. secular meaning separating it from religion, thats what these things do they separate it from the religious aspect to make it different from what the true religious holiday is!

You celebrate it with jesus and all but remove the none religious aspects from it and then its not secular. I will celebrate it without jesus and all the commercial stuff meaning it is secular.

OK, so youre just ignorant. Now Im getting it.

[Snacks]

OK, so youre just ignorant. Now Im getting it.

Now Im realistic you are being ignorant! Sorry if reality messes with your fantasy!

Now Im got it too!

[StanUpshaw]

"Now Im got it too!"

http://i.imgur.com/1v9a5.gif http://i.imgur.com/1v9a5.gif http://i.imgur.com/1v9a5.gif

Are you a rapper from the Dirty South?

[torker]

I have no religion
and santa in his red hat,
8 reindeer,
snow men
and elves have nothing to do with religion.
secular
meaning

separating

it
from religion,
thats what these things do
they

separate

it
from the religious aspect to make
it
different from what the true religious holiday is!

You celebrate
it
with
jesus
and all but remove the none religious aspects from
it
and then its not secular.
I
will celebrate
it
without
jesus
and all the commercial stuff
meaning
it is secular.
http://www.vintagecostumers.com/1950smens/1950sm11.jpg

[Crispy123]

My fantasies of words and their definitions are heavily induced by those damned sirens Merriam and Webster.


p.s. bravo Torker!

[Snacks]

"Now Im got it too!"

http://i.imgur.com/1v9a5.gif http://i.imgur.com/1v9a5.gif http://i.imgur.com/1v9a5.gif

Are you a rapper from the Dirty South?

imabe imabe imabe!!!

[underdog]

Whats the point of this?

To antagonize you people. They're not tithing 10% to a corporation or going to church so they have nothing better to do with their time or money.

[TripleSkeet]

whats the point of these?

http://www.eternalgospelherald.com/Billboard%20-%20God's%20Way.jpg

http://www.tampabay.com/multimedia/archive/00106/b4s_billboard020810_106642c.jpg

http://i625.photobucket.com/albums/tt335/calm2k/GodsBillboardGIF.gif

why do non christians and non believers need to be told what to believe? ts the same shit and agnostic and atheist people are selling their message just like christians are. Sucks that they may get some former religious people to see the real truth , huh? Dont like competition in beliefs?


Its also their right we do have freedom of speech in this country. if you dont want your kids to know the truth then lie to them a little better. their kids if they ask continue to lie about jesus and everything else you teach them. their your kids you raise them. Its not anyone else's job to hide your kids from things you dont want them to see.

Hey dumbass, they are just as bad. Thats my point though. Atheists claim to be so much smarter and more enlightened then the "rubes" but they are doing the same fucking thing.

Advertising to get people to not believe in God is the same thing as advertising to get people to believe in God. Congratulations, youre no better then the people you make fun of.

And only a true asshole would be so arrogant to believe they know exactly how and what created the universe. I dont care if you believe in God or not, but to claim your version is the "truth" is hilarious. All you know is what you think you know. Im sure 600 years ago there were plenty of enlightened people like yourself trying to teach the dumb uneducated people about how the Earth was flat too.

[TripleSkeet]

For the record, this is the bullshit I was talking about earlier...

http://www.myfoxphilly.com/dpp/news/local_news/city-hall-removes-xmas-from-display

Fucking ridiculous.

I liked it alot better when someone would complain about something and the response they would get would be "Hey! Thanks for voicing your concern." and then they were promptly ignored.

[Barnaby Jones]

Advertising to get people to not believe in God is the same thing as advertising to get people to believe in God. Congratulations, youre no better then the people you make fun of.

Really? Billboards make atheists the SAME as organized religion?!?? That's all it takes?!?!?

And only a true asshole would be so arrogant to believe they know exactly how and what created the universe. I dont care if you believe in God or not, but to claim your version is the "truth" is hilarious. All you know is what you think you know. Im sure 600 years ago there were plenty of enlightened people like yourself trying to teach the dumb uneducated people about how the Earth was flat too.

Oh Lord!!!! (:innocent::innocent::innocent:) The American school system strikes again!!! The flat Earth theory was nonsense in Columbus' time!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myth_of_the_Flat_Earth

But nice try trying to flip it to make it seem like atheism and science are going to be the areas where people are believing in goofy shit!!!!

[Snacks]

Hey dumbass, they are just as bad. Thats my point though. Atheists claim to be so much smarter and more enlightened then the "rubes" but they are doing the same fucking thing.

Advertising to get people to not believe in God is the same thing as advertising to get people to believe in God. Congratulations, youre no better then the people you make fun of.

And only a true asshole would be so arrogant to believe they know exactly how and what created the universe. I dont care if you believe in God or not, but to claim your version is the "truth" is hilarious. All you know is what you think you know. Im sure 600 years ago there were plenty of enlightened people like yourself trying to teach the dumb uneducated people about how the Earth was flat too.

... or the enlightened people like me were the ones trying to teach you stupid fucks that the world was round while you assholes believed it was flat!!!

If you read anything about the atheist group created that billboard this year you would know they did it because they are tired of being blamed for the"war of christmas" every year. So they figured they wouldnt sit by this year and they would actually say what they wanted to.

this whole war on christmas is and was started because Bill Oreilly and asshole christians didnt like that stores said "happy hilodays" and holiday sales instead of christmas sales or merry christmas. thye didnt like that it was easier to include everyones beliefs. so they created the war on christmas. but every year they throw atheists into the "war" when usually they dont bring up anything. so this year that group chose to make their comments. good for them! if believers want everyone to know what they believe atheists should do the same. this way people can make decision with all the facts instead of only the ones they were forced to learn as a child!

[Snacks]

For the record, this is the bullshit I was talking about earlier...

http://www.myfoxphilly.com/dpp/news/local_news/city-hall-removes-xmas-from-display

Fucking ridiculous.

I liked it alot better when someone would complain about something and the response they would get would be "Hey! Thanks for voicing your concern." and then they were promptly ignored.

i would never complain about any of that, personally. but holidays works just as well for all not just for christians! its not atheist complaining about this it was others of other faiths! why not make it all inclusive and call it a holiday village? if its public funded it has to be, if its private call it whatever you want!

[Snacks]

Really? Billboards make atheists the SAME as organized religion?!?? That's all it takes?!?!?



Oh Lord!!!! (:innocent::innocent::innocent:) The American school system strikes again!!! The flat Earth theory was nonsense in Columbus' time!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myth_of_the_Flat_Earth

But nice try trying to flip it to make it seem like atheism and science are going to be the areas where people are believing in goofy shit!!!!

I never knew that either, thanks! its nice to learn something new but like anything its shit like this that we were taught as children and we are all brain washed to believe. similar to religion!!!!!

[CYYYFYYY]

I have many Jewish friends who celebrate Christmas. This annoys me to no END! Not because I feel they are being bad Jews. I feel it is disrespectful to Christians. They don’t believe Jesus is the son of G-d; they just like the trees and the gifts and the songs. If someone Christian says Oh I am going to celebrate Chanukah because I like lighting the 8 candles (Really 9) of a Menorah and I like 8 gifts however I don’t believe or care about anything else I would be pissed. As for me saying happy holidays..... I never say that. I say Merry Christmas. Several Jewish coworkers (I am Jewish) tell me no it is a holiday party not a Christmas party. Well before this job I worked in a Jewish organization and we NEVER did anything for Chanukah. Never even considered it because it is not a big holiday. But now I am not in a Jewish organization all of a sudden Chanukah is a big deal The whole thing is STUPID! I will go to a Christmas party but I would not host one. I can appreciate people celebrating something I do not believe in but I would NOT host a Christmas party. If you want to be an atheist I have no issues with that but celebrate your birthday and thanksgiving and any non religious holiday.

[Furtherman]

I have many Jewish friends who celebrate Christmas. This annoys me to no END! Not because I feel they are being bad Jews. I feel it is disrespectful to Christians. They don’t believe Jesus is the son of G-d; they just like the trees and the gifts and the songs. If someone Christian says Oh I am going to celebrate Chanukah because I like lighting the 8 candles (Really 9) of a Menorah and I like 8 gifts however I don’t believe or care about anything else I would be pissed. As for me saying happy holidays..... I never say that. I say Merry Christmas. Several Jewish coworkers (I am Jewish) tell me no it is a holiday party not a Christmas party. Well before this job I worked in a Jewish organization and we NEVER did anything for Chanukah. Never even considered it because it is not a big holiday. But now I am not in a Jewish organization all of a sudden Chanukah is a big deal The whole thing is STUPID! I will go to a Christmas party but I would not host one. I can appreciate people celebrating something I do not believe in but I would NOT host a Christmas party. If you want to be an atheist I have no issues with that but celebrate your birthday and thanksgiving and any non religious holiday.

Too many rules. Simplify your life.

[Furtherman]

Im sure 600 years ago there were plenty of enlightened people like yourself trying to teach the dumb uneducated people about how the Earth was flat too.

Really? Billboards make atheists the SAME as organized religion?!?? That's all it takes?!?!?



Oh Lord!!!! (:innocent::innocent::innocent:) The American school system strikes again!!! The flat Earth theory was nonsense in Columbus' time!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myth_of_the_Flat_Earth

But nice try trying to flip it to make it seem like atheism and science are going to be the areas where people are believing in goofy shit!!!!

True. Say what you want about the creation of the universe, but like the billboard says, you KNOW it's a myth, concerning the nativity. It will eventually be phased out, just like all those other god myths that were around much longer than the jesus one.

I for one am glad to witness the beginnings of it... gives me hope in humanity's future.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays, say whatever you want. However Stores should not be pressured into saying either term. If they want to say Christmas sales fine, If people get offended they can choose to go to another store. Merchants and customers should be able to make their own choices.

I dont want Bill Donaghue from the Catholic League or some representative from the Gay left handed Atheist alliance calling the shots.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

True. Say what you want about the creation of the universe, but like the billboard says, you KNOW it's a myth, concerning the nativity. It will eventually be phased out, just like all those other god myths that were around much longer than the jesus one.

I for one am glad to witness the beginnings of it... gives me hope in humanity's future.

Now if they can only remove foot baths paid for by taxpayer dollars.

[StanUpshaw]

True. Say what you want about the creation of the universe, but like the billboard says, you KNOW it's a myth, concerning the nativity. It will eventually be phased out, just like all those other god myths that were around much longer than the jesus one.

I for one am glad to witness the beginnings of it... gives me hope in humanity's future.

The beginnings? What are you talking about?

[Furtherman]

True. Say what you want about the creation of the universe, but like the billboard says, you KNOW it's a myth, concerning the nativity. It will eventually be phased out, just like all those other god myths that were around much longer than the jesus one.

I for one am glad to witness the beginnings of it... gives me hope in humanity's future.

The beginnings? What are you talking about?

See the bold above.

[StanUpshaw]

See the bold above.

Do you have such little understanding of history, or are you just that naive?


Ever heard of the Enlightenment?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

See the bold above.

How will religions be phased out? People have been believing in some form of a supreme being or higher power. There will always be that factor no matter of its a Sun God, Allah or some giant spacecraft. For example Christianity is dying in Europe, while Islam is expanding, but quickly gaining converts in Africa.




To say that religion will never be around someday is just crazy.

[Furtherman]

Do you have such little understanding of history, or are you just that naive?


Ever heard of the Enlightenment?

You've got to be kidding. Apparently my posts have escaped you.

[StanUpshaw]

You've got to be kidding. Apparently my posts have escaped you.

Your posts say that you think some billboard is the beginning of the end for religion.

[Furtherman]

How will religions be phased out? People have been believing in some form of a supreme being or higher power. There will always be that factor no matter of its a Sun God, Allah or some giant spacecraft. For example Christianity is dying in Europe, while Islam is expanding, but quickly gaining converts in Africa.




To say that religion will never be around someday is just crazy.

Well, I guess I should clarify that in many educated and modern societies, religious symbols and ceremonies will be phased out eventually. It's not going to happen overnight, but everytime I hear of one being taken down, I think it's a good thing.

No, there will always be religion in underdeveloped and poor nations, because that's where they can be easily exploited. However, since our world is more connected now more than ever, younger and younger will people realize that it's all made up, and that will be less religion in those areas, which is good.

[Furtherman]

Your posts say that you think some billboard is the beginning of the end for religion.

No, it did not. It said religion will eventually be phased out, and then I expanded on it. We're smarter now as a race, and we'll find better things to do with our time than worry about gods.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Well, I guess I should clarify that in many educated and modern societies, religious symbols and ceremonies will be phased out eventually. It's not going to happen overnight, but everytime I hear of one being taken down, I think it's a good thing.

No, there will always be religion in underdeveloped and poor nations, because that's where they can be easily exploited. However, since our world is more connected now more than ever, younger and younger will people realize that it's all made up, and that will be less religion in those areas, which is good.

Western Europe has advanced countries like the UK for example. It is not a poor country but there is a gorwing Muslim population.

The world is getting advanced, I agree with you in regards to media communication etc, but there will always be impoverished people. You can't phase out religion, just like you cant phase out poverty. Theres about 6 billion people on the earth and look how many are living on next to nothing each day.

[Furtherman]

Western Europe has advanced countries like the UK for example. It is not a poor country but there is a gorwing Muslim population.

The world is getting advanced, I agree with you in regards to media communication etc, but there will always be impoverished people. You can't phase out religion, just like you cant phase out poverty. Theres about 6 billion people on the earth and look how many are living on next to nothing each day.

The UK also lets all those growing Muslim population in, that's their own fault. But there is always a chance that one day poverty will be phased out. Maybe. Perhaps. Naahh, I'm not that optimistic.

[TripleSkeet]

Here my view on religion in general. Its faith based. Do I believe everything written in the bible? Of course not. It was written by men. Most guys cant even get the details from a story from the night before right. Its the message.

Theres nothing wrong with what the bible teaches. Most of the lessons in religions are pretty basic and united. Be good to other people. Treat them the way you would like to be treated. Be honest. Take care of each other. Be thankful for everything you have in life. Whats wrong with that? Why would people have issues with that. And please dont say you dont because when you attack an entire religion thats what you are attacking.

I for one see plenty of faults with the church. Which is why I dont go. They let the prejudices of men take away from the teachings of Jesus. But it doesnt change those teachings. I just dont understand the actual outrage some people have towards others because they have faith in a higher power.

I dont give a fuck what you say about science. Regardless of the whole flat Earth theory, the bottom line is 100 years ago scientists wouldnt even be able to dream about things scientists know and learn now. New things are learned all the time. And there is absolutely no way of knowing if there is or is not a soul, what happens after you die, or if there is or is not a God. Like I said before, the arrogance it takes to assume you know the exact answers to questions like that is astounding.

[TripleSkeet]

No, it did not. It said religion will eventually be phased out, and then I expanded on it. We're smarter now as a race, and we'll find better things to do with our time than worry about gods.

Religion will never be phased out. It provides hope for those that just dont have much in life. And those people are and probably always will be the majority of people on this world.

[TripleSkeet]

i would never complain about any of that, personally. but holidays works just as well for all not just for christians! its not atheist complaining about this it was others of other faiths! why not make it all inclusive and call it a holiday village? if its public funded it has to be, if its private call it whatever you want!

Heres the thing, like it or not this is the CHRISTMAS season for the majority of people. Why must they change their signs for the minority? Why should they change it at all? If the sign originally said Happy Holidays and some people complained to change it to Merry Xmas I would feel the same exact way. But the thing is they changed it to appease a few people that complained. I fucking HATE that in every sense, not just this case.

Right now they have a poll up on the news site and its something like 97% for keeping the sign. So why change it to appease the rest? I just dont get it.

Oh and can one of the atheists here tell me what exactly it is that bothers them about someone like myself celebrating the birth of what I believe is the son of God? Whether its the correct date or not is irrelevant. Why exactly does that bother YOU?

[Furtherman]

Here my view on religion in general. Its faith based. Do I believe everything written in the bible? Of course not. It was written by men. Most guys cant even get the details from a story from the night before right. Its the message.

Theres nothing wrong with what the bible teaches. Most of the lessons in religions are pretty basic and united. Be good to other people. Treat them the way you would like to be treated. Be honest. Take care of each other. Be thankful for everything you have in life. Whats wrong with that? Why would people have issues with that. And please dont say you dont because when you attack an entire religion thats what you are attacking.

I for one see plenty of faults with the church. Which is why I dont go. They let the prejudices of men take away from the teachings of Jesus. But it doesnt change those teachings. I just dont understand the actual outrage some people have towards others because they have faith in a higher power.

I dont give a fuck what you say about science. Regardless of the whole flat Earth theory, the bottom line is 100 years ago scientists wouldnt even be able to dream about things scientists know and learn now. New things are learned all the time. And there is absolutely no way of knowing if there is or is not a soul, what happens after you die, or if there is or is not a God. Like I said before, the arrogance it takes to assume you know the exact answers to questions like that is astounding.

That's a great view, and is pretty much what mine is too, but no, attacking a religion does not mean I'm attacking being grateful. One does not need one to have the other. And no one here has assumed to know the exact answers. Even the most vocal atheistic voice acknowledge that.

But your whole defense is admirable... I sense a tinge of Philadelphia based Catholic School guilt in there! haha.

[Furtherman]

Religion will never be phased out. It provides hope for those that just dont have much in life. And those people are and probably always will be the majority of people on this world.

True... but I said there is always a chance....

[Barnaby Jones]

I dont give a fuck what you say about science. Regardless of the whole flat Earth theory, the bottom line is 100 years ago scientists wouldnt even be able to dream about things scientists know and learn now.

Uh, 100 years ago was 1910! You might want to rethink that statement!!! You had people writing stories and making films about the scientific breakthroughs we'd have later, yet you think scientists would be clueless about these things and not thinking about them at all?!?! I guess space travel would have been here a bit sooner if all those dumb ass scientists in 1902 went to go see A Trip to the Moon!!!!

[TripleSkeet]

That's a great view, and is pretty much what mine is too, but no, attacking a religion does not mean I'm attacking being grateful. One does not need one to have the other. And no one here has assumed to know the exact answers. Even the most vocal atheistic voice acknowledge that.

But your whole defense is admirable... I sense a tinge of Philadelphia based Catholic School guilt in there! haha.

No I dont mean attacking being greatful. But when you say the Catholic Religion is a joke. Youre not sitting there taking out all the good teachings it has either. You are condemning the whole instead of the bad parts.

Thats like sonmeone telling a kid "High School sucks".... but not mentioning stuff like you learn alot, you can play sports, you meet alot of new friends, you start dating... the things that are good about a high school experience.

I dont hassle people that are atheists, I just dont agree with the whole combatative attitude. From those on the Christian side as well. I never understood why someone cant just have their own beliefs and let others have theirs without trying to act smarter or superior to one another.

[TripleSkeet]

Uh, 100 years ago was 1910! You might want to rethink that statement!!! You had people writing stories and making films about the scientific breakthroughs we'd have later, yet you think scientists would be clueless about these things and not thinking about them at all?!?! I guess space travel would have been here a bit sooner if all those dumb ass scientists in 1902 went to go see A Trip to the Moon!!!!

Scientists have always theorized about the future. Theyve gotten some things right, and a ton of shit wrong too. Didnt the patent office say "everything that can be invented has been invented"....in 1900?

[Barnaby Jones]

Scientists have always theorized about the future. Theyve gotten some things right, and a ton of shit wrong too. Didnt the patent office say "everything that can be invented has been invented"....in 1900?

Of course people get things wrong!!! Scientific thought is supposed to be an ever evolving process where there is never really THE answer to anything!!! It's just silly to get all worked up over people making broad generalized statements about religion and then turn right around make one about science in the early 20th century where you said they could never "dream" about what we know now!!!

And what does the patent office have to do with science?!?

[StanUpshaw]

Scientists have always theorized about the future. Theyve gotten some things right, and a ton of shit wrong too. Didnt the patent office say "everything that can be invented has been invented"....in 1900?

I think the people who say that are the same as the people who say Coca Cola invented Santa Claus.

[angrytruckingguy]

Religion will never be phased out. It provides hope for those that just dont have much in life. And those people are and probably always will be the majority of people on this world.

"....opium of the masses?"

[Furtherman]

Scientists have always theorized about the future. Theyve gotten some things right, and a ton of shit wrong too. Didnt the patent office say "everything that can be invented has been invented"....in 1900?

I think the people who say that are the same as the people who say Coca Cola invented Santa Claus.

Yep. That's just people misquoting something because they want it to be true. Religion works the same way.

"....opium of the masses?"

Yep as well.

[TripleSkeet]

Of course people get things wrong!!! Scientific thought is supposed to be an ever evolving process where there is never really THE answer to anything!!! It's just silly to get all worked up over people making broad generalized statements about religion and then turn right around make one about science in the early 20th century where you said they could never "dream" about what we know now!!!


My point is you can trust in science but that doesnt prove the non-existence of a God that created the universe. There are people on here that claim "science" proves there no such thing as God. Thats a load of horseshit.

[Barnaby Jones]

My point is you can trust in science but that doesnt prove the non-existence of a God that created the universe. There are people on here that claim "science" proves there no such thing as God. Thats a load of horseshit.

Those people are fools that don't grasp the concepts of scientific thought and reasoning and the scientific method!

[spoon]

Religion will never be phased out. It provides hope for those that just dont have much in life. And those people are and probably always will be the majority of people on this world.

You mean a crutch or way of pacifying the masses so they think everything will be better in the next life if they don't cause any trouble here. Works quite well in helping those in power and those in control financially doesn't it?

And saying you don't believe in something with no proof (faith I know) is completely different than saying you know the "exact answer".

If you (in general, not TS) need religion to guide your life so be it. I think it's funny to say that the codes in religion are all about the same bc they are not. Hell, even within Christianity things are strikingly different between the Old and New testaments alone. Perhaps this hope isn't what people need with little in this life. Perhaps they would be more apt to actually make a better life and advance themselves in this life versus spending huge amounts of time and money to invest themselves in whatever religion they subscribe to.

I'm sorry, I just don't see it the same way you do. Religion is a crutch.

[Snacks]

You mean a crutch or way of pacifying the masses so they think everything will be better in the next life if they don't cause any trouble here. Works quite well in helping those in power and those in control financially doesn't it?

And saying you don't believe in something with no proof (faith I know) is completely different than saying you know the "exact answer".

If you (in general, not TS) need religion to guide your life so be it. I think it's funny to say that the codes in religion are all about the same bc they are not. Hell, even within Christianity things are strikingly different between the Old and New testaments alone. Perhaps this hope isn't what people need with little in this life. Perhaps they would be more apt to actually make a better life and advance themselves in this life versus spending huge amounts of time and money to invest themselves in whatever religion they subscribe to.

I'm sorry, I just don't see it the same way you do. Religion is a crutch.

spoon, maybe you should pray more?! Jesus is the greatest thing since Zarathustra and he is the greatest since Attis of Phrygia and on and on.

Funny thing about all these religious men. They were all born to virgins. There are 10 or so similar stories of similar jesus like men that predate jesus. if you changed the name of the lead character you wouldnt know which was which. the truth is, there has always been some form of god or a son of god that people have believed in. The christian story just happens to be the one that took off. (because kings and powerful chose which religion people had to believe in and you did or you were killed) Like a movie. There have been plenty of movies that are similar but some make it some dont.

Another funny thing is now a days when we hear of a jesus like man who claims to be jesus reborn or a son of god we immediately know he is a crazy person. Why is that? Because we are a smarter civilization and know thats not the case. But some believe that a book written 1900 years ago by men about another man 100 years later is a true account of this mans life?

I dont think science explains anything as much as common sense. We know now how we would act to someone like jesus. We also know if our daughter came home and told us she was a virgin but god impregnated her to deliver her son we would call her a whore and know shes lying. Back then people didnt know any better. lies lasted longer because they couldnt be proven. people thought thunder was when god was angry and rain from gods tears.

[spoon]

I'm not looking to belittle someone's beliefs, that's not my goal here. However, it's not as if saying why you think the way you do is antagonistic. I find those who do believe, especially when older, find it offensive when you don't just fall in line with their beliefs or at least play along. Most of the time they don't so much debate the issue, but get angry with a big heap of righteous indignation to say the least.

[Jujubees2]

Back then people didnt know any better. lies lasted longer because they couldnt be proven. people thought thunder was when god was angry and rain from gods tears.

That's crazy. We all know thunder is when the angels who are bowling roll a strike.

[spoon]

That's crazy. We all know thunder is when the angels who are bowling roll a strike.

What does it sound like when they get a 7/10 split?

[Snacks]

That's crazy. We all know thunder is when the angels who are bowling roll a strike.

thats so funny you said that. my brother who has become very religious since getting married and having kids used to tell his kids that it was our father bowling with our grandfather. every time he would say that I wanted to say "no its thunder nothing more nothing less" but they arent my kids.

I hate when they lie to the kids with shit like that. My nephew for some reason cant eat tuna fish but can eat chicken salad. so when my sister in law makes tuna for my niece she make chicken salad for my nephew. since he wants to be able to have everything others has she lies to him and says its tuns too. I hate that because if he goes to a friends to play or whatever he wont know what he truly eats and something could happen since its a wierd allergy. I say tell them the truth so they are better prepared.

[StanUpshaw]

I'm not looking to belittle someone's beliefs, that's not my goal here. However, it's not as if saying why you think the way you do is antagonistic. I find those who do believe, especially when older, find it offensive when you don't just fall in line with their beliefs or at least play along. Most of the time they don't so much debate the issue, but get angry with a big heap of righteous indignation to say the least.

I'd like to know why any discussion that deals even slightly with religion has to be bombarded by nonbelievers with their (to quote myself) "obvious, juvenile critiques of faith."

This thread had nothing to do with the tenets of the religion, yet several of you are either too immature or too insecure to miss an opportunity to shit all over other people's beliefs.

Besides it completely derailing whatever thread it's in for pages at a time, no one EVER says anything different. How can you just regurgitate the same elementary arguments over and over again? Obviously it doesn't sway anyone. You guys must just love to hear it parroted back and forth among yourselves. It's so fucking tiresome.

[Son of Muta]

And there is absolutely no way of knowing if there is or is not a soul, what happens after you die, or if there is or is not a God. Like I said before, the arrogance it takes to assume you know the exact answers to questions like that is astounding.

Nothing happens when you die, you are just no more..you cease to be, to quote John Cleese. You get put into the ground, rot and become part of the earth.


As an atheist, I am confident that there is no god and that I don't have to rely on blind faith to get through life. But If someone needs religion to make it through the day, to each his own, I don't judge personally.

[Snacks]

I'd like to know why any discussion that deals even slightly with religion has to be bombarded by nonbelievers with their (to quote myself) "obvious, juvenile critiques of faith."

This thread had nothing to do with the tenets of the religion, yet several of you are either too immature or too insecure to miss an opportunity to shit all over other people's beliefs.

Besides it completely derailing whatever thread it's in for pages at a time, no one EVER says anything different. How can you just regurgitate the same elementary arguments over and over again? Obviously it doesn't sway anyone. You guys must just love to hear it parroted back and forth among yourselves. It's so fucking tiresome.

and religious people dont do that? all you have to do is mention you dont believe in jesus or god or whatever and you get talked to like you are going to hell and how we must repent and take jesus into our hearts blah blah blah. so why is it ok for religious people to preach their shit but others cant do the same with their beliefs? your job is to spread the word of the lord? well atheists job is to spread the word that there is no lord. why cant they both say what they want to say?

1 side cant be the only one heard. how else can someone make an informed decision if they dont know all the opinions and facts?

[StanUpshaw]

and religious people dont do that? all you have to do is mention you dont believe in jesus or god or whatever and you get talked to like you are going to hell and how we must repent and take jesus into our hearts blah blah blah. so why is it ok for religious people to preach their shit but others cant do the same with their beliefs? your job is to spread the word of the lord? well atheists job is to spread the word that there is no lord. why cant they both say what they want to say?

1 side cant be the only one heard. how else can someone make an informed decision if they dont know all the opinions and facts?

When does that ever happen here? Show me any thread where Crispy was ranting at people to repent.

[Barnaby Jones]

I'd like to know why any discussion that deals even slightly with religion has to be bombarded by nonbelievers with their (to quote myself) "obvious, juvenile critiques of faith."

This thread had nothing to do with the tenets of the religion, yet several of you are either too immature or too insecure to miss an opportunity to shit all over other people's beliefs.

Besides it completely derailing whatever thread it's in for pages at a time, no one EVER says anything different. How can you just regurgitate the same elementary arguments over and over again? Obviously it doesn't sway anyone. You guys must just love to hear it parroted back and forth among yourselves. It's so fucking tiresome.

Tough shit, Corky!!!!

[underdog]

I'd like to know why any discussion that deals even slightly with religion has to be bombarded by nonbelievers with their (to quote myself) "obvious, juvenile critiques of faith."

This thread had nothing to do with the tenets of the religion, yet several of you are either too immature or too insecure to miss an opportunity to shit all over other people's beliefs.

Besides it completely derailing whatever thread it's in for pages at a time, no one EVER says anything different. How can you just regurgitate the same elementary arguments over and over again? Obviously it doesn't sway anyone. You guys must just love to hear it parroted back and forth among yourselves. It's so fucking tiresome.

Really?

[StanUpshaw]

Yep.

[Barnaby Jones]

He's very delicate and sensitive like that!!!!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

The famous Philosopher St Thomas Aquinas said it best


"Clearly the person who accepts the Church as an infallible guide will believe whatever the Church teaches."

[spoon]

I'd like to know why any discussion that deals even slightly with religion has to be bombarded by nonbelievers with their (to quote myself) "obvious, juvenile critiques of faith."

This thread had nothing to do with the tenets of the religion, yet several of you are either too immature or too insecure to miss an opportunity to shit all over other people's beliefs.

Besides it completely derailing whatever thread it's in for pages at a time, no one EVER says anything different. How can you just regurgitate the same elementary arguments over and over again? Obviously it doesn't sway anyone. You guys must just love to hear it parroted back and forth among yourselves. It's so fucking tiresome.

You really need to read more thoroughly bc TS, among others, brought up plenty you state this thread had nothing to do with. Like it or not, this thread isn't some rigid template where you have full control over it's direction. And what fun would that be knowing how quickly you start blowing yourself on any topic.

While you may think it's tiresome to read the same ideas on religion, you're the king of that general tactic basically saying the same condescending bullshit in every thread. In fact, I've yet to see you actually add anything without putting your own thoughts up on a pedestal, even when clearly and blatantly wrong (evolution/mutation discussion). Your debating style is exactly what you claim annoying, juvenile and immature. I guess it's not immature to constantly read and post in threads/topics you have no interest in the discussion?

You know what we all need here, people who not only suck themselves off, but more that actually quote themselves to make points.

[StanUpshaw]

You really need to read more thoroughly bc TS, among others, brought up plenty you state this thread had nothing to do with. Like it or not, this thread isn't some rigid template where you have full control over it's direction. And what fun would that be knowing how quickly you start blowing yourself on any topic.

While you may think it's tiresome to read the same ideas on religion, you're the king of that general tactic basically saying the same condescending bullshit in every thread. In fact, I've yet to see you actually add anything without putting your own thoughts up on a pedestal, even when clearly and blatantly wrong (evolution/mutation discussion). Your debating style is exactly what you claim annoying, juvenile and immature. I guess it's not immature to constantly read and post in threads/topics you have no interest in the discussion?

You know what we all need here, people who not only suck themselves off, but more that actually quote themselves to make points.

You are.

[spoon]

of course

[torker]

Time to start fighting back.
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[TripleSkeet]

thats so funny you said that. my brother who has become very religious since getting married and having kids used to tell his kids that it was our father bowling with our grandfather. every time he would say that I wanted to say "no its thunder nothing more nothing less" but they arent my kids.

I hate when they lie to the kids with shit like that. My nephew for some reason cant eat tuna fish but can eat chicken salad. so when my sister in law makes tuna for my niece she make chicken salad for my nephew. since he wants to be able to have everything others has she lies to him and says its tuns too. I hate that because if he goes to a friends to play or whatever he wont know what he truly eats and something could happen since its a wierd allergy. I say tell them the truth so they are better prepared.

I see that as 2 totally different examples. Barring the food one, which is a legitimate health risk and should be mentioned to your sister-in-law, whats wrong with giving kids some fantasy?

It really bothers you that your brother tells his kids its their grandfather bowling in Heaven when it thunders??? Why? Why would that bother you? Would you also have parents stop telling their kids about Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy? God what a boring, sad life that would be for a kid. Having all the fun and mystery sucked out of life.

I could never. I love seeing the looks on my kids faces when they think Santa came the night before. I like seeing them watch wrestling and thinking its real. I want to see them believe a magician and pull a rabbit out of his hat. And see how wide their eyes get when I pull my thumb in half.

Those kind of things are what makes a childhood a childhood. The fantasy, the willingness to believe that anything is possible. Its a beautiful thing. I would never want to intentionally take that innocence away from a child.

I'm not looking to belittle someone's beliefs, that's not my goal here. However, it's not as if saying why you think the way you do is antagonistic. I find those who do believe, especially when older, find it offensive when you don't just fall in line with their beliefs or at least play along. Most of the time they don't so much debate the issue, but get angry with a big heap of righteous indignation to say the least.

I hate that too. Thats what I mean where I say let each people have their own beliefs. If someone tells me they dont believe in God, I shrug and say "No big deal to me." I expect the same courtesy if someone asks and I say that I do believe in God.

[Snacks]

[QUOTE=TripleSkeet;2792435]I see that as 2 totally different examples. Barring the food one, which is a legitimate health risk and should be mentioned to your sister-in-law, whats wrong with giving kids some fantasy?

It really bothers you that your brother tells his kids its their grandfather bowling in Heaven when it thunders??? Why? Why would that bother you? Would you also have parents stop telling their kids about Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy? God what a boring, sad life that would be for a kid. Having all the fun and mystery sucked out of life.

I could never. I love seeing the looks on my kids faces when they think Santa came the night before. I like seeing them watch wrestling and thinking its real. I want to see them believe a magician and pull a rabbit out of his hat. And see how wide their eyes get when I pull my thumb in half.

Those kind of things are what makes a childhood a childhood. The fantasy, the willingness to believe that anything is possible. Its a beautiful thing. I would never want to intentionally take that innocence away from a child.


edit. forget it, not going to go crazy explaining something we obviously cant agree on..

[A.J.]

Here my view on religion in general. Its faith based. Do I believe everything written in the bible? Of course not. It was written by men. Most guys cant even get the details from a story from the night before right. Its the message.

Theres nothing wrong with what the bible teaches. Most of the lessons in religions are pretty basic and united. Be good to other people. Treat them the way you would like to be treated. Be honest. Take care of each other. Be thankful for everything you have in life. Whats wrong with that? Why would people have issues with that. And please dont say you dont because when you attack an entire religion thats what you are attacking.

I for one see plenty of faults with the church. Which is why I dont go. They let the prejudices of men take away from the teachings of Jesus. But it doesnt change those teachings. I just dont understand the actual outrage some people have towards others because they have faith in a higher power.

I dont give a fuck what you say about science. Regardless of the whole flat Earth theory, the bottom line is 100 years ago scientists wouldnt even be able to dream about things scientists know and learn now. New things are learned all the time. And there is absolutely no way of knowing if there is or is not a soul, what happens after you die, or if there is or is not a God. Like I said before, the arrogance it takes to assume you know the exact answers to questions like that is astounding.

Good points. What frightens people like me is that some people can take the Bible to be the literal word of God as revealed through his "prophets". You described religion the way I consider it to be: a philosophical concept drawn from a variety of sources.

[Snacks]

Good points. What frightens people like me is that some people can take the Bible to be the literal word of God as revealed through his "prophets". You described religion the way I consider it to be: a philosophical concept drawn from a variety of sources.

sounds good to me too so why not just take it as a good guide on how to live a good life while acknowledging that it isnt real or that there is not such think as a guy with magical powers?

I have no problem with people living a life like that but what your saying is if its not the word of god then its a bunch of stories put in a book by men that they created, nothing more nothing less.

Once you pick and choose what is what god wants or said and what isnt makes it seem foolish. how can some be important and other things not be? Thats another problem I have. People love to pick and choose what they want to follow and what they say they dont need to follow. If you are going to live and believe in a religion shouldnt you follow it to the T and live that life? By not doing that arent you going against your own beliefs? And if it is only a book or guide why put so much stock into something written so long ago? Why not learn and grow with new teachings by smarter more evolved people who now have things to back up what has truly happened and have proof?

What a vicious cycle!

[Donnie Iris]

Keep your Crimbus bush trimmed and wet!

[TripleSkeet]

sounds good to me too so why not just take it as a good guide on how to live a good life while acknowledging that it isnt real or that there is not such think as a guy with magical powers?

I have no problem with people living a life like that but what your saying is if its not the word of god then its a bunch of stories put in a book by men that they created, nothing more nothing less.

Once you pick and choose what is what god wants or said and what isnt makes it seem foolish. how can some be important and other things not be? Thats another problem I have. People love to pick and choose what they want to follow and what they say they dont need to follow. If you are going to live and believe in a religion shouldnt you follow it to the T and live that life? By not doing that arent you going against your own beliefs? And if it is only a book or guide why put so much stock into something written so long ago? Why not learn and grow with new teachings by smarter more evolved people who now have things to back up what has truly happened and have proof?

What a vicious cycle!

No. Take the lesson, and leave the opinions put in by men of the past where it is. You use your own logic as a grown adult, and take from it what you believe is right. That book was written in a different time, it doesnt mean all the stories in it are false. There are many people from the bible that have proven to be real. And some that are obviously exagerated stories that were made to prove a lesson.


Look at our forefathers of this country. They laid down the Constitution over 200 years ago. But we still follow it. Do we follow EVERYTHING they taught? No. We use what weve learned and our logic to change the things we feel isnt right. Such as having slaves and giving women the same rights as men. You evolve with the culture, but dont lose the lesson.

Even the church leaders dont follow the religion to a T anymore. If they did, mass would still be said in latin and with the preists back facing the congregation. Women wouldnt be handing out communion and the Pope wouldnt constantly change the rules of the church. Thats what I mean when I say I follow the religion but not the church. Nowhere does God say you have to give the church money. Nowhere does God say you even have to go to church. The church was a nice idea turned bad by men, who used it for greed and corruption. Doesnt make the religion itself or its lessons any less good.

[Gutter]

Keep your Crimbus bush trimmed and wet!

can not wait for the creepy insanely awkward tom and eric crimbus special. that show gives me acid flashbacks and i've never done acid.

[Crispy123]

You heathens had better fucking repent!

oh and you can shit all over people for their beleifs but you have to accept that there is NO God with the exact same amount of effort it takes a believer to accept that there is A God (or Gods).

[TripleSkeet]

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/cityhall/111153509.html

Im shocked. Bravo Mayor Nutter.

[torker]

.

[Furtherman]

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/cityhall/111153509.html

Im shocked. Bravo Mayor Nutter.

Bravo? BRAVO? I, for one, am still appaled.

Didn't we beat those German bastards in WW TWO??!!! And now they're setting up villages in our cities?!

OUTRAGED!!!!!

[Gutter]

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/cityhall/111153509.html

Im shocked. Bravo Mayor Nutter.

A victory for common sense? INCONCEIVABLE!!!

[Furtherman]

A victory for common sense? INCONCEIVABLE!!!

Common sense? More like HITLER!!!!!