Why is Catholic guilt so damn strong?

[jamesdiggy]

I was born and raised Irish-Catholic.(I have a sister who's a Nun) While I'm no longer religious, I still feel that incredible, prudish, Catholic guilt? Even Sweet Melissa's moans make me uncomfortable. Is there any cure? Help me Horde King, you're my only help.

Cake or Death? Uh, I'll have the cake please.

[IkeaBoy]

well guilt is a powerful tool of all religions. if one looks at religion as a way to keep order then the one surefire way to make sure people follow your rules is to force guilt upon them. And it keeps you coming back to the religion, if you feel you've sinned and the only way to be "cleansed" of the sin is through the priests, etc. then you keep returning and following the faith.

[/quote]
"My review of 2001 the year is the same as my review of 2001: A Space Odyssey- overlong, hard to follow, and only enjoyable if you're really really stoned." - Lewis Black
"a single death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic"- joseph stalin

[Excomunicated Reeshy]

I'm an Irish-Catholic too. I was brought up with the old ways of Ireland-meaning- if it feels good -it;s got to be bad! Over the years I have gotten over those feelings but have also retained my faith in the Catholic reiligion as it was meant to be!

<img src=http://www.stonesmania.com.ar/rs_2001/keith/dibujos/images/rich2.jpg>

[HordeKing1]

JAMES - You describe one of the dangers inherent in religions, that of guilt.

Religious guilt is particularly strong because it is indoctrinated into us from infancy and reinforced throughout life. Moreover, the punishment for violation of religious precepts is said to be an eternity in hell. This is pretty frightening for most people and is used to keep people in the faith.

To many people, religion serves as a massive superego, preventing them from doing normal, healthy things (for fear of divine retribution). That is when the religious values start to become especially problematic.

Sex is a HUGE area of guilt for many religious people, particularly christians. Sex is thought of as basically evil and dirty and only permitted by god for continuation of the species. (Apparantly, from the actions of the diocese reported in todays paper, sex b/w a priest and over a hundred little boys are perfectly acceptable.)

Sex is a normal function of any living organism and yet the sexual urge is repressed by many religions. This leads to the "Catholic High School Girl Syndrome" where following escape they often become very promiscuous.

The promiscuity is one way they throw off the years of pent of repression and begin living as functioning human beings - and yes, sex is essential for normal human functioning.

Many many people, like REESHY, are able to move away from their indoctrination into the mentality of; "if it feels good it must be bad." They can and do retain their belief in god and/or other creators but over time begin to realize that excessive guilt is counterproductive.

It's a long process until you can internalize your intellectual knowledge that your guilt is baseless. Hearing a woman moan orgasmically should not make you uncomfortable. Instead, it should be celebrated.

Ultimately, your sex life is up to you. If you choose to remain a virgin until marriage, that's completely fine. The converse is true as well.

The goal is to base your actions on what YOU want to do, not on guilt or fear.


http://members.aol.com/rnfpantera/hking2

[CovDiesel]

Horde King... I love you man.. Because you are the best at taking shots at religion.

Guilt is something you should be able to put down.. espicially Catholic guilt... use the sacrament of reconciliation if it's really bothering you... talk to a priest and contrary to Horde King's opinion... not all of them are kid touchers.

... but not all of them aren't either.

<IMG SRC="http://members.aol.com/dxixrxt/covbball.jpg">

[Tall_James]

talk to a priest and contrary to Horde King's opinion... not all of them are kid touchers.


I am a fairly observant Irish-Catholic and while I believe that a lot of the tenets of the church are outdated and wrongly directed, as a whole the gospel of "do unto others as you would have done unto you" is still pretty right on the money. In my opinion, you have to make your own communion with God first, privately, instead of blindly towing the company line.

But everytime I hear of a pedophile priest, I get mad enough to take a bat and chase these fuckers down.

<img src=http://users.rcn.com/jamespatton/tall%20james%20sig%20copy.jpg>
Dodging low-flying aircraft since 1977.

[Tall_James]

The goal is to base your actions on what YOU want to do, not on guilt or fear.


I agree as long as you make your decision intelligently and not just because it feels right to do it. There's a lot of bad things out there that, unlike guilt, can actually kill you.

<img src=http://users.rcn.com/jamespatton/tall%20james%20sig%20copy.jpg>
Dodging low-flying aircraft since 1977.

[blakjeezis]

I qoute Al Pacino
"Guilt is like a bag of bricks. Leave it at the fuckin' door."

<IMG SRC =http://blakjeezis.homestead.com/files/bully.jpg>
White people are so scared of blakjeezis

[IkeaBoy]

use the sacrament of reconciliation if it's really bothering youwhich is precisely how religion gets you like Columbia House

[/quote]
"My review of 2001 the year is the same as my review of 2001: A Space Odyssey- overlong, hard to follow, and only enjoyable if you're really really stoned." - Lewis Black
"a single death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic"- joseph stalin

[TheGameHHH]

If you posted in this thread, you are going to hell.

IT'S TIME TO PLAY THE GAME-AHHH!

<IMG SRC="http://wwfallon.homestead.com/files/RFnetTheGameHHH.jpg">
Thanks Fallon for the sig!

[IkeaBoy]

oh, like THIS thread is what verified my hellboundedness

[/quote]
"My review of 2001 the year is the same as my review of 2001: A Space Odyssey- overlong, hard to follow, and only enjoyable if you're really really stoned." - Lewis Black
"a single death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic"- joseph stalin

[nellie]

If you posted in this thread, you are going to hell.

see ya there ;)

i am the inner child..... quiet, sensitive, and shy

[DarkHippie]

"Guilt is like a bag of bricks. Leave it at the fuckin' door."

very true. perhaps you are the messiah

white jesus is so scared, of blakjeezis

<IMG SRC=http://diskeater.homestead.com/files/flagu.gif>
<i>support your local 420: union of brotherhood</i>

[DarkHippie]

jewish guilt isn't exactly a piece of cake either. what's unique about jewish guilt though, is that the brunt comes not from the religion, but from your own family. the whole "you're breakin' your mother's heart" thing. I think this is because Judaism is as much an ethnicity and bloodline as it is a religion.

for example: i do not follow the jewish faith, yet i will always consider myself jewish, as much as an Irishmen considers himself Irish. and my children, though they will find their own religion when its time, will be tought the history of the jews, because its the history of their ancestors. What other people can trace their geneology back 3500 years (the second oldest modern religion, behind Hinduism).

<IMG SRC=http://diskeater.homestead.com/files/flagu.gif>
<i>support your local 420: union of brotherhood</i>

[TomPoo]

I feel guilty about feeling guilty... now that is fucked up!!!!

<IMG SRC="http://tompoo.50megs.com/images/sig_2.jpg" width=296 height=107>
There is nothing more exhilerating than pointing out
the shortcomings of others, is there?
---Tom Poo

[wilee]

Why is it so hot in here? And why are there so many of us in this handbasket?

I was raised Roman Catholic, and know all about the guilt thing. While I didn't go to catholic school, I think everyone is right in saying that guilt is the force that attempts to keep everyone in line.

Most religions state that the one that you are worshipping is "all-knowing" meaning that he knows what you did. Therefore, nothing escapes him- not the "pre-marital sex" or the guy you beat up. All of these things are to make you feel guilty so that you do toe the line about doing good things. If "He" can see you do those "bad things" it makes you think twice.

HK is right about guilt being a powerful motivator, and that its one of the things they DRILL into you when your younger (when it makes the most impact). But most people as they grow up do take a less directed view of their faith (as have I) and realize that of the edicts that are handed out by the church, many are written by men. Feeling ashamed or guilty of what you do should be because you know it's not the right thing to do, not because someone told you that you shouldn't do it.

<IMG SRC="http://cwjr.home.infi.net/rocket.jpg">

[HordeKing1]

TALL JAMES - The day I wrote the reply, the cover story of Newsday was an article about a priest who had sexually molested and abused over 130 boys. To add to this horror and to further compound the lasting effects of this crime, the diocess had full knowledge of the actions of this monster priest - but did nothing other than keep transfering him to different churches - leaving him free to continue to molest other little boys. They didn't even send the "man of god" for treatment. (In my opinion the only treatment for a child molester/abuser is death.)

If this was a one time occurance, it would be a tragedy. The fact that it is not at all unusual for a priest to sexually molest young boys is a grave indictment of a system where people's natural, normal and healthy sexual drives are repressed and regarded as sinful.

Just as necrophiliacs seek employment in mortuaries, pedophiles often seek employment in a field that gives them unfettered access to little children.

Of course not all priests are pedophiles. Most are dedicated people doing the best they can to offer guidance to their "flock." Nonetheless there are many priests with pedophilliac tendencies and it is irresponsible to ignore this, just as it is irresponsible to ignore the role that repression of normal desires plays in the development of sexual deviances, fetishes or guilt.

http://members.aol.com/rnfpantera/hking2

[Tall_James]

Horde King, I totally agree with you. As you can see by my previous post, I have a lot of problems with the church. Not the least of which is the tragedy of these poor kids getting abused by people who are supposed to be "good guys". Yes, the church is dead wrong in covering up what they did. These kids are scarred forever due to the fact that predators are allowed free reign.

I have always felt that a "Vatican III" needs to be adopted which will allow priests to be married. It makes sense because times have changed. If priests are allowed to be married (as clergy in other faiths) there will be less instances of this happening. You rarely hear about the Rabbi or Minister who does these horrible things.

I love my faith and my beliefs. The church that I go to in order to express them publicly has, in my opinion, a lot of work to do to get their shit together.

It just hurts so much to hear shit like this. You're right, like the cops, its the .01% who give the church this black eye. However, kick these motherfuckers or send them to jail like the cops do when one of them is found to be dirty.



<img src=http://users.rcn.com/jamespatton/tall%20james%20sig%20copy.jpg>
Dodging low-flying aircraft since 1977.

[jamesdiggy]

Great responses, all well thought and informative. I think the thing about debating religion is that there is never going to be a definitive "right" answer. To have faith one almost has to cast aside logic, and I don't mean that as an insult. I mean that there are no clear patterns when it comes to faith. I'm a constantly questioning Agnostic, while my sister is a completely convinced Nun, so it's not in the genes. Anyway, it's nice to know there are a lot of fellow messed up catholics like me.

Cake or Death? Uh, I'll have the cake please.