Lets Give Everything Away Everybody Is Entitled

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Jackson Jr should form the America owes me party


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[Furtherman]

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[underdog]

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[Dude!]

he's just as awful a person
as his father...ugh

he should have added
that everyone has the right
to pay off and bribe to get
a senate seat...like he tried to do

[WRESTLINGFAN]

http://www.aceshowbiz.com/images/still/failure_to_launch08.jpg

http://www.galsrock.fr/eshop/images/ani%20di%20franco%20canonl.jpeg

[razorboy]

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[WRESTLINGFAN]

he's just as awful a person
as his father...ugh

he should have added
that everyone has the right
to pay off and bribe to get
a senate seat...like he tried to do

His father is a great story on how a race hustling poverty pimp can knock a woman up and try to keep it hush hush while making a fortune in the race card business.


What a country

[Barnaby Jones]

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[jonyrotn]

This is the type of radical, out of the thinking that this country was built on...

[WRESTLINGFAN]

The Rev Jesse Jackson entitlement bill.


40 ACRES AND A HOE

[Barnaby Jones]

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[spoon]

At 1:00 I thought he was going to say the only thing that touches the long term unemployed was Hottub. I also would have accepted Wampus.

[jonyrotn]

Jackson Jr should form the America owes me party


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I guess I missed the part where he said this would only apply to Affrican Americans..

[jonyrotn]

At 1:00 I thought he was going to say the only thing that touches the long term unemployed was Hottub. I also would have accepted Wampus.
That was very funny..I also would have accepted just regular funny..

[spoon]

I guess I missed the part where he said this would only apply to Affrican Americans..

he's black?

[jonyrotn]

he's black?
only from the waist down like me..



Edit..I'm really chinese from the waist down..

[disneyspy]

only from the waist down like me..

no money in your pants pockets?

[jonyrotn]

no money in your pants pockets?
Hahaha..
No..Halfrican American..

[keithy_19]

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Stroke Muppets?

[brettmojo]

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[WRESTLINGFAN]

We are on our way to becoming more like Western Europe


http://www.cnbc.com/id/41969508

It gets even better.


High speed rail
:wallbash::wallbash::wallbash::wallbash:




http://thehill.com/blogs/on-the-money/budget/147253-sessions-says-hes-flabbergasted-by-massive-new-transportation-budget-

[Donnie Iris]

We are on our way to becoming more like Western Europe


http://www.cnbc.com/id/41969508

It gets even better.


High speed rail
:wallbash::wallbash::wallbash::wallbash:




http://thehill.com/blogs/on-the-money/budget/147253-sessions-says-hes-flabbergasted-by-massive-new-transportation-budget-


Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) countered Sessions by saying, "I think improving infrastructure is more important than tax breaks for billionaires. My colleague may disagree, but that is my view."

[WRESTLINGFAN]

More than a quarter of a trillion dollars were pissed away. Where are those shovelready jobs for infrastructure?


What happened to all the money from this

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/08/10/politics/main769547.shtml

[El Mudo]

OK, I'll bite.

What exactly did JJ Jr. say that was wrong there? He thinks poor kids to have access to technology in the classroom, which includes things like laptops and Ipods, most of which they can't afford.

Here (http://www.wired.com/entertainment/music/news/2004/07/64282)

Duke University will give each of its 1,650 incoming freshmen a free iPod this fall as part of an initiative to foster innovative uses of technology in the classroom, the school said Monday.

But Duke wants to experiment with creative academic uses for the devices. The school will preload the 20-GB iPods (retail price, $300) with freshman-orientation information, an academic calendar and even the Duke fight songs before handing them out to the incoming class Aug. 19.

Students also will be able to use the devices to download course content, recorded lectures, foreign language lessons, audio books and music from a special Duke website modeled after iTunes. The school will supply voice recorders for some classes, enabling students to record notes while working in the field.

Expanding the use of information both in the classroom and in the campus community is part of the school's overall goals, said Tracy Futhey, Duke's vice president of information technology. The school is looking forward to ideas from the faculty and students about additional uses for the devices, Futhey said. The student newspaper, for example, might use the iPods to distribute a daily audio editorial.

"There are a lot of creative ideas that students will come up with themselves," Futhey said.

Lisa Merschel, visiting assistant professor of Spanish, plays audio lessons for her students in her intensive elementary Spanish class using a CD-ROM. Occasionally, the lessons are too fast for some and too slow for others. "I can see their eyes glaze over or become anxious with fear," she said.

With the iPods, students will be able to pause, rewind and play audio lessons as often as they like.

Merschel is also planning to record native speakers reading the four novellas students are assigned during the semester, so students can hear the correct pronunciation, intonation and accent as well as read the text.


Heaven forbid we actually spend money to improve education in this country instead of cutting taxes for billionaires. Because that's a MUCH better use of money than to educate poor people, because if that happens, they might not be poor anymore, and we can't have that.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

OK, I'll bite.

What exactly did JJ Jr. say that was wrong there? He thinks poor kids to have access to technology in the classroom, which includes things like laptops and Ipods, most of which they can't afford.

Here (http://www.wired.com/entertainment/music/news/2004/07/64282)








Heaven forbid we actually spend money to improve education in this country instead of cutting taxes for billionaires. Because that's a MUCH better use of money than to educate poor people, because if that happens, they might not be poor anymore, and we can't have that.


Give out all the Ipods you want. NOT WITH MY MONEY!!!!

Steve Jobs can run a charity for that.


JJ's old man has profitted from being a poverty pimp and agitator, he can reach into his pockets and contribute.

Obama signed off on the tax breaks. Its all on him.

[El Mudo]

Give out all the Ipods you want. NOT WITH MY MONEY!!!!

Steve Jobs can run a charity for that.

Obama signed off on the tax breaks. Its all on him.


Where did I mention Obama? And when did I say he wasn't culpable for extending the Bush Tax Cuts?

He's saying that in order to guarantee equality of education, opportunity, etc., the Constitution needs to be amended in order to do so. That's ALL HE'S SAYING. And it's not without precedent, because we had to amend the Constitution in the late 1860s to define what a citizen was.

[El Mudo]

JJ's old man has profitted from being a poverty pimp and agitator, he can reach into his pockets and contribute.



What does JJ Sr. have to do with anything regarding the current topic of what his son said? That's the strawiest strawman that ever strawed.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Where did I mention Obama? And when did I say he wasn't culpable for extending the Bush Tax Cuts?

He's saying that in order to guarantee equality of education, opportunity, etc., the Constitution needs to be amended in order to do so. That's ALL HE'S SAYING. And it's not without precedent, because we had to amend the Constitution in the late 1860s to define what a citizen was.

No one is being denied an education in this country. Hell even the anchor babies of the border hoppers are entitled to it.

[foodcourtdruide]

What does JJ Sr. have to do with anything regarding the current topic of what his son said? That's the strawiest strawman that ever strawed.

He doesn't have a good argument against you, so he's making points against an opinion you haven't expressed. He does this in every single thread.

[El Mudo]

No one is being denied an education in this country. Hell even the anchor babies of the border hoppers are entitled to it.


No one said anyone was being denied an education. Quit inventing random arguments.

It's the EQUALITY of education he has an issue with. A poor kid shouldn't get less of an education just because he's fucking poor. The whole country was BUILT on the idea that "all men are created equal".

[Furtherman]

Changing the subject. That's the only way these neo-cons can try to get around their ignorance.

[El Mudo]

He doesn't have a good argument against you, so he's making points against an opinion you haven't expressed. He does this in every single thread.


You're right. I feel ashamed for attempting to engage him.

I apologize to everyone.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

He doesn't have a good argument against you, so he's making points against an opinion you haven't expressed. He does this in every single thread.

LET PRIVATE CHARITIES DONATE THEM!!!!


BEST BUY CAN DONATE SOME ALSO


EVERYTHING DOES NOT HAVE TO BE DOLED OUT FROM THE GOVERNMENT!!!!

[underdog]

Changing the subject. That's the only way these neo-cons can try to get around their ignorance.

I believe we're calling them regressives now.

[underdog]

You're right. I feel ashamed for attempting to engage him.

I apologize to everyone.

Everyone learns the hard way.

It's just so hard to resist sometimes, though.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Changing the subject. That's the only way these neo-cons can try to get around their ignorance.

HACK HACK AND HACK

NO one changed the topic.


HOW MANY TIMES HAVE I STATED I AM NOT A NEOCON.

[El Mudo]

Everyone learns the hard way.

It's just so hard to resist sometimes, though.


I know! That was such a nice hanging curveball that I couldn't stop myself

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I believe we're calling them regressives now.



http://www.jerichoschools.org/ms/library/social/images/temperance.jpg

[El Mudo]

http://www.jerichoschools.org/ms/library/social/images/temperance.jpg


Surprised you went after Teddy. Expected you to go after Beck's whippin' boy, Woodrow Wilson.

[Dude!]

Changing the subject. That's the only way these neo-cons can try to get around their ignorance.

like they change the subject
on gitmo?

oh wait, that's the neo-libs

[Donnie Iris]

You're right. I feel ashamed for attempting to engage him.

I apologize to everyone.

No problem, it happens to the best. Now you can just hang back and let the inane posts speak for themselves.

[Dudeman]

LET PRIVATE CHARITIES DONATE THEM!!!!


BEST BUY CAN DONATE SOME ALSO


EVERYTHING DOES NOT HAVE TO BE DOLED OUT FROM THE GOVERNMENT!!!!


Will charities ensure Skippy peanut butter containing Salmonella is recalled?

fda-recall-is-there-salmonella-in-your-skippy (http://healthland.time.com/2011/03/07/fda-recall-is-there-salmonella-in-your-skippy/)

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Everyone learns the hard way.

It's just so hard to resist sometimes, though.

Reach into your pocket and donate to some of your former fellow citizens.


Heres the latest CAD rate to USD


http://www.x-rates.com/d/CAD/USD/graph120.html

[Dude!]

Will charities ensure Salmonella containing Skippy peanut butter is recalled?

yeah, when i buy my Salmonella
i want to be assured it is
peanut butter-free

[Dudeman]

Will charities ensure Skippy peanut butter containing Salmonella is recalled?

fda-recall-is-there-salmonella-in-your-skippy (http://healthland.time.com/2011/03/07/fda-recall-is-there-salmonella-in-your-skippy/)

(waiting for predictable "free market" response)

[underdog]

I know! That was such a nice hanging curveball that I couldn't stop myself

The worst part is, even if you ignore him, he'll continue posting. He'll throw up links and add unfunny, non-witty one liners to go with them in random threads.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

(waiting for predictable "free market" response)

You can buy this for example.


http://timkindberg.com/images/large/jif.jpg

[WRESTLINGFAN]

The worst part is, even if you ignore him, he'll continue posting. He'll throw up links and add unfunny, non-witty one liners to go with them in random threads.

Did it bother you so much that you fled to another country?

Wuss!!!!

[Dudeman]

You can buy this for example.


http://timkindberg.com/images/large/jif.jpg

How would you know to buy that instead???? How do you know it doesn't have Salmonella????

Seriously, without changing the topic, without turning to name calling, how would this be dealt with without regulations. Can you admit they did good in this situation? What free-market/charity/church solution do you have in mind?

[foodcourtdruide]

How would you know to buy that instead???? How do you know it doesn't have Salmonella????

CHARITIES!!!!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

CHARITIES!!!!

So does everyone cower and never eat peanut butter again? You people are such pansies

[foodcourtdruide]

So does everyone cower and never eat peanut butter again? You people are such pansies

You have no answer for him, do you? Your whole philosophy has a gigantic flaw in it and will never work.

[underdog]

Did it bother you so much that you fled to another country?

Wuss!!!!

Exactly.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

like they change the subject
on gitmo?

oh wait, that's the neo-libs

We can ship the recalled peanut butter to Gitmo and feed it to the prisoners.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

You have no answer for him, do you? Your whole philosophy has a gigantic flaw in it and will never work.

Skippy and Jif aren't the only PB brands out there.

Whole foods sells organic, you can make your own there. Again, COMPETITION

Company A has a flawed product , it doesnt mean that Companies B-F also have

[underdog]

You have no answer for him, do you? Your whole philosophy has a gigantic flaw in it and will never work.

Stop it.

[Dudeman]

Skippy and Jif aren't the only PB brands out there.

Whole foods sells organic, you can make your own there. Again, COMPETITION

Company A has a flawed product , it doesnt mean that Companies B-F also have

The "free market" solution.

As I wrote already:

The anti-regulation people would argue that the free market would put Skippy out of business once the salmonella was found (or at least force them to ultimately get their own regulation- without any input from a FDA.)

But there are multiple problems with this course:

1. people would have to get sick before the problem was dealt with; (which increases the healthcare expenditures)

2. it assumes that we could trace the illnesses back to the skippy- if people are getting sick in different hospitals, in different cities, in different states, the connection may be very difficult to find;

3. ironically the backlash if the connection was made would really hurt Skippy and might result in people losing their jobs. the regulations, which anti-regulation people say doing nothing but hurt businesses and ultimately cost people their jobs, in this case may actually protect the company as a whole.

(I'm trying to engage you on this topic- not turn to name calling or slogans.)

[underdog]

(I'm trying to engage you on this topic- not turn to name calling or slogans.)

I'm sure it will work this time!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

The "free market" solution.

As I wrote already:

The anti-regulation people would argue that the free market would put Skippy out of business once the salmonella was found (or at least force them to ultimately get their own regulation- without any input from a FDA.)

But there are multiple problems with this course:

1. people would have to get sick before the problem was dealt with; (which increases the healthcare expenditures)

2. it assumes that we could trace the illnesses back to the skippy- if people are getting sick in different hospitals, in different cities, in different states, the connection may be very difficult to find;

3. ironically the backlash if the connection was made would really hurt Skippy and might result in people losing their jobs. the regulations, which anti-regulation people say doing nothing but hurt businesses and ultimately cost people their jobs, in this case may actually protect the company as a whole.

(I'm trying to engage you on this topic- not turn to name calling or slogans.)



Im saying let the consumer decide

There is no such thing as a free market here. This isnt Mogadishu, There should be some regulation. No one wants anarchy, but at the same time draconian measures are not needed

However in a somewhat free market environment people will lose their jobs if in fact consumers decide not to purchase Skippy. Theres no right to job protection

In a society like ours there is a risk of people getting sick, injured killed. But then thats the tradeoffs in living in a somewhat free society.

[Dudeman]

Im saying let the consumer decide

There is no such thing as a free market here. This isnt Mogadishu, There should be some regulation. No one wants anarchy, but at the same time draconian measures are not needed

However in a somewhat free market environment people will lose their jobs if in fact consumers decide not to purchase Skippy. Theres no right to job protection

In a society like ours there is a risk of people getting sick, injured killed. But then thats the tradeoffs in living in a somewhat free society.

1. Mogadishu?

2. You say you aren't for anarchy, but you can never agree to any government services or regulation, even in this seemingly non-controversial case

3. Like I said:
"it assumes that we could trace the illnesses back to the skippy- if people are getting sick in different hospitals, in different cities, in different states, the connection may be very difficult (and expensive) to find"

4. The healthcare expenditures for dealing with an outbreak of contaminated food, etc may end up greater than the screening for pathologic bacteria in our food supply

[Dudeman]

However in a somewhat free market environment people will lose their jobs if in fact consumers decide not to purchase Skippy. Theres no right to job protection

In a society like ours there is a risk of people getting sick, injured killed. But then thats the tradeoffs in living in a somewhat free society.

1. ok, if that is your answer. fine. but be honest about it. people will have to decide if they want to have someone preemptively checking the food supply for pathogenic bacteria or not.

2. if you are fine with people losing their jobs over these things, don't use potential job losses as your argument against regulations (which you know you do)

[WRESTLINGFAN]

1. Mogadishu?

2. You say you aren't for anarchy, but you can never agree to any government services or regulation, even in this seemingly non-controversial

3. Like I said:
"it assumes that we could trace the illnesses back to the skippy- if people are getting sick in different hospitals, in different cities, in different states, the connection may be very difficult to find"

4. The healthcare expenditures for dealing with an outbreak of contaminated food, etc may end up greater than the screening for pathologic bacteria in our food supply

1. Mogadishu is anarchy

2 Leave it to the states

[Dudeman]

2 Leave it to the states

How that would work in the case of Skippy? I assume Skippy is only made in a few states. If someone buys it in a different state, they will have to decide if they like the laws in that other state? I guess people would start to learn which states had regulations and which didn't and decide whether they want to buy stuff from the places that had regulations (but maybe costs more) or not.

(also, this seems to be a different answer than what you just posted above, which seemed to imply that you feel that the free market could take care of this.)

[El Mudo]

1. Mogadishu is anarchy

2 Leave it to the states

Yes, because the states and municipalities are loaded with money right now. Absolutely none of them are saddled by crippling debt.


Dammit STOP DRAGGING ME BACK IN!

[Dudeman]

Dammit STOP DRAGGING ME BACK IN!

at least this is a moderately productive interaction, rather than the slogans and name calling

[Dudeman]

Im saying let the consumer decide


I still don't understand how they can do this. First, who is going to make that connection between people getting sick and Skippy being the source? Doctors in different hospitals in different states likely won't make the connection. And the people who are already sick won;t have had a choice.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Yes, because the states and municipalities are loaded with money right now. Absolutely none of them are saddled by crippling debt.


Dammit STOP DRAGGING ME BACK IN!

Well if they didnt have to send so much money to the Leviathan in DC they would be able to hold onto more of it.


The other shortfall is due to the unfunded bloated pensions that politicians promised decades back

[Dudeman]

Well if they didnt have to send so much money to the Leviathan in DC they would be able to hold onto more of it.


The other shortfall is due to the unfunded bloated pensions that politicians promised decades back

Quote:
Originally Posted by WRESTLINGFAN
Im saying let the consumer decide

I still don't understand how they can do this. First, who is going to make that connection between people getting sick and Skippy being the source? Who's going to figure out that the Skippy caused the kid to get Salmonella? Doctors in different hospitals in different states likely won't make the connection that there was a pervasive problem that the community/consumers should know about. Even if they figured out it came from the Skippy, they would have to assume it was an isolated case.

And the people who are already sick won;t have had a choice.



Quote:
Originally Posted by WRESTLINGFAN
2 Leave it to the states

How that would work in the case of Skippy? I assume Skippy is only made in a few states. If someone buys it in a different state, they will have to decide if they like the laws in that other state? I guess people would start to learn which states had regulations and which didn't and decide whether they want to buy stuff from the places that had regulations (but maybe costs more) or not.

(also, this seems to be a different answer than what you just posted above, which seemed to imply that you feel that the free market could take care of this.)

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Quote:
Originally Posted by WRESTLINGFAN
Im saying let the consumer decide

I still don't understand how they can do this. First, who is going to make that connection between people getting sick and Skippy being the source? Who's going to figure out that the Skippy caused the kid to get Salmonella? Doctors in different hospitals in different states likely won't make the connection that there was a pervasive problem that the community/consumers should know about. Even if they figured out it came from the Skippy, they would have to assume it was an isolated case.

And the people who are already sick won;t have had a choice.



Quote:
Originally Posted by WRESTLINGFAN
2 Leave it to the states

How that would work in the case of Skippy? I assume Skippy is only made in a few states. If someone buys it in a different state, they will have to decide if they like the laws in that other state? I guess people would start to learn which states had regulations and which didn't and decide whether they want to buy stuff from the places that had regulations (but maybe costs more) or not.

(also, this seems to be a different answer than what you just posted above, which seemed to imply that you feel that the free market could take care of this.)

Only 1 state

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skippy_peanut_butter


It doesnt say where the rest of the plants are. Maybe Mexico?


This is just a hypothesis but maybe the Mexican gov't doesnt have the same standards as we do.

Consumers shop with their dollars, brand loyalty means nothing when in cases like this.

[Dudeman]

Consumers shop with their dollars, brand loyalty means nothing when in cases like this.

1. I don't understand how the consumer would make the connection between Skippy and Salmonella? Doctors in different hospitals in different states likely won't make the connection that there was a pervasive problem that the community/consumers should know about. Even if they figured out it came from the Skippy (which would be very difficult for an individual doctor/hospital), they would have to assume it was an isolated case.

2. The people who are already sick won;t have had a choice.

3. And from a purely $ standpoint, it will also cost money to treat individuals who get sick from tainted food/water/air. You may hate $ for screening programs, but $ for healthcare expenditures (not to mention the missed days of work) would increase.

(If your answer is "tough luck", than that's your answer. Americans will have to decide if not screening our food supply for pathogenic bacteria (ie. the Salmonella that was found in the Skippy peanut butter) is what they really want.)

[foodcourtdruide]

(If your answer is "tough luck", than that's your answer. Americans will have to decide if not screening our food supply for pathogenic bacteria (ie. the Salmonella that was found in the Skippy peanut butter) is what they really want.)

Americans have already decided. WF has a point of view that is not reasonable and is easily refuted with common sense. He's holding on to it, and you can see his answers are becoming more and more vague.

[Dudeman]

Americans have already decided. WF has a point of view that is not reasonable and is easily refuted with common sense. He's holding on to it, and you can see his answers are becoming more and more vague.

i'm really trying to engage on a specific area of disagreement and trying to understand his point of view

[foodcourtdruide]

i'm really trying to engage on a specific area of disagreement and trying to understand his point of view

I think it's pretty clear that he just doesn't care about the people who will get sick, but probably won't say that. We'll see. Goodluck.

[Dudeman]

Originally Posted by foodcourtdruide
Americans have already decided. WF has a point of view that is not reasonable and is easily refuted with common sense. He's holding on to it, and you can see his answers are becoming more and more vague.

i appreciate you saying that- a little reality check helps me before I head off to work.

I think it's pretty clear that he just doesn't care about the people who will get sick, but probably won't say that. We'll see. Goodluck.

I disagree. He feels you can't protect everyone from everything. And he's right to some extent. (Look WF, I dont think it hurst my position to acknowledge the strengths of your arguments.) But screening our food supply for Salmonella seems reasonable- and in this case effective. (And there is still the fact that screening programs will reduce hospitalizations, ER visits, lawsuits, etc- so even on a purely $ standpoint, the regulations/screening aren't all bad.)

[foodcourtdruide]

i appreciate you saying that- a little reality check helps me before I head off to work.



I disagree. He feels you can't protect everyone from everything. And he's right to some extent. (Look WF, I dont think it hurst my position to acknowledge the strengths of your arguments.) But screening our food supply for Salmonella seems reasonable- and in this case effective. (And there is still the fact that screening programs will reduce hospitalizations, ER visits, lawsuits, etc- so even on a purely $ standpoint, the regulations/screening aren't all bad.)

You're forgetting that in his perfect world, things like ER Visits, Hospitalizations, etc would not cost tax payer (his) money, it will be up to charities and churches.

I truly think people like him just believe that poor people are at fault for their poverty, and if the result is them laying in a gutter and dying, then so be it. It's as simplistic a world view as can be, and to be quite honest.. sounds like an incredibly relaxing way to see things.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

i appreciate you saying that- a little reality check helps me before I head off to work.



I disagree. He feels you can't protect everyone from everything. And he's right to some extent. (Look WF, I dont think it hurst my position to acknowledge the strengths of your arguments.) But screening our food supply for Salmonella seems reasonable- and in this case effective. (And there is still the fact that screening programs will reduce hospitalizations, ER visits, lawsuits, etc- so even on a purely $ standpoint, the regulations/screening aren't all bad.)

I'll concede that food supplies especially from other countries should have some screening, however there shouldn't be overwhelming scutiny.

Maybe a lot of this can be averted if these jobs werent sent abroad

[Dudeman]

You're forgetting that in his perfect world, things like ER Visits, Hospitalizations, etc would not cost tax payer (his) money, it will be up to charities and churches.

I truly think people like him just believe that poor people are at fault for their poverty, and if the result is them laying in a gutter and dying, then so be it. It's as simplistic a world view as can be, and to be quite honest.. sounds like an incredibly relaxing way to see things.

Even middle class, upper middle class, rich, whatever who have insurance will get sick in this case. Insurance premiums go up. Lawsuits occur.

But I don't want this turning into name calling or mean-spirited generalizations like "he hates the poor." It is a simple question of how to deal with this real world scenario of Salmonella in our peanut butter.

[Dudeman]

I'll concede that food supplies especially from other countries should have some screening, however there shouldn't be overwhelming scutiny.

Maybe a lot of this can be averted if these jobs werent sent abroad

1. You said that you want the free market or states to take care of it. Now you say screening is ok? Great... we talked about a real world case, you (barely) gave some ground and backed off your slogans.... and the world isn't going to end.

2. What is the difference if the Salmonella is from the US or Mexico?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Even middle class, upper middle class, rich, whatever who have insurance will get sick in this case. Insurance premiums go up. Lawsuits occur.

But I don't want this turning into name calling or mean-spirited generalizations like "he hates the poor." It is a simple question of how to deal with this real world scenario of Salmonella in our peanut butter.

I thought Obamacare was going to reduce costs.

[Misteriosa]

2. What is the difference if the Salmonella is from the US or Mexico?

salmonella from the us has citizenship.. not like that illegal salmonella with its anchor baby brood...

[Dudeman]

I thought Obamacare was going to reduce costs.

:surrender:

I tried everyone, but the change of direction, slogans, etc was going to have to occur at some point.

WF, you know I've tried. I've acknowledged the strengths of your theoretical arguments. I've tried numerous times to engage with you on specific issues. I think you have 2 general issues- 1. your points have merit, but you should consider not having to always stick to the slogans to the bitter end (all government, all regulations, etc are always inherently bad), and 2. you should really think through the real world consequences of your hard line stances (or better yet, go into the community and live life.)
:surrender:

[Dudeman]

salmonella from the us has citizenship.. not like that illegal salmonella with its anchor baby brood...

good one... with that, off to work

[foodcourtdruide]

:surrender:

I tried everyone, but the change of direction, slogans, etc was going to have to occur at some point.

WF, you know I've tried. I've acknowledged the strengths of your theoretical arguments. I've tried numerous times to engage with you on specific issues. I think you have 2 general issues- 1. your points have merit, but you should consider not having to always stick to the slogans to the bitter end (all government, all regulations, etc are always inherently bad), and 2. you should really think through the real world consequences of your hard line stances (or better yet, go into the community and live life.)
:surrender:

I'm pointing and laughing at you.

[Dudeman]

I'm pointing and laughing at you.

1. fuck you :smile:

2. because this discussion has already taken place, today's reading assignment:

http://files.sharenator.com/url_quotThe_Junglequot_By_Upton_Sinclair-s312x475-108352-580.jpg

[underdog]

I'm pointing and laughing at you.

We all are.

[underdog]

:surrender:

I tried everyone, but the change of direction, slogans, etc was going to have to occur at some point.

WF, you know I've tried. I've acknowledged the strengths of your theoretical arguments. I've tried numerous times to engage with you on specific issues. I think you have 2 general issues- 1. your points have merit, but you should consider not having to always stick to the slogans to the bitter end (all government, all regulations, etc are always inherently bad), and 2. you should really think through the real world consequences of your hard line stances (or better yet, go into the community and live life.)
:surrender:

It was such a predictable ending, too. I was hoping for something more original, but no.

[foodcourtdruide]

1. fuck you :smile:

2. because this discussion has already taken place, today's reading assignment:

http://files.sharenator.com/url_quotThe_Junglequot_By_Upton_Sinclair-s312x475-108352-580.jpg

One of those books that changed my life. I think your advice to WF was spot on. Not all of the world's complex problems can be answered with a slogan.

[El Mudo]

You're forgetting that in his perfect world, things like ER Visits, Hospitalizations, etc would not cost tax payer (his) money, it will be up to charities and churches.

I truly think people like him just believe that poor people are at fault for their poverty, and if the result is them laying in a gutter and dying, then so be it. It's as simplistic a world view as can be, and to be quite honest.. sounds like an incredibly relaxing way to see things.


It's that goddamn Rand bullshit. Ties into this feeling of superiority that some people have, where they feel like "I (or so and so) made it, so why didn't you?"

The world is not black and white. Sometimes people succeed because frankly, they get lucky, or the catch an unbelievable break. It doesn't all come from simply "working hard". You can be the hardest worker in the world, but if you don't catch that break, or are lucky enough to where something big happens (like when you send your tape of parody songs into the local radio station, which leads to a multimillion dollar broadcasting career), it doesn't make you any less of a person than someone that did.

And you know what? Even "success" is something that's debatable, because everything is not about fucking money. People go into the public services like teaching, and fight fires and become soldiers and police the streets because they feel a certain obligation to serve society. They deserve the right to have a roof over their heads and their kids educated as much as the next guy.

[underdog]

One of those books that changed my life. I think your advice to WF was spot on. Not all of the world's complex problems can be answered with a slogan.

What about with a bumper sticker or NY Post headline?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41422xwBTgL.jpg


http://www.happybirthdaypeace.com/symbols/page/1266026398_Visualize%20Whirled%20Peas%20SIG.jpg

[WRESTLINGFAN]

It's that goddamn Rand bullshit. Ties into this feeling of superiority that some people have, where they feel like "I (or so and so) made it, so why didn't you?"

The world is not black and white. Sometimes people succeed because frankly, they get lucky, or the catch an unbelievable break. It doesn't all come from simply "working hard". You can be the hardest worker in the world, but if you don't catch that break, or are lucky enough to where something big happens (like when you send your tape of parody songs into the local radio station, which leads to a multimillion dollar broadcasting career), it doesn't make you any less of a person than someone that did.

And you know what? Even "success" is something that's debatable, because everything is not about fucking money. People go into the public services like teaching, and fight fires and become soldiers and police the streets because they feel a certain obligation to serve society. They deserve the right to have a roof over their heads and their kids educated as much as the next guy.

No one is disagreeing about the middle class shouldnt have their children educated. Thats not the point.


Sure money isn't everything. However the main purpose of working before anything else is to make money. Cops and Firemen aren't opposed to making a salary


If someone makes some hokey demo tape and makes a fortune whats wrong with that?
In life some people are born into money and some have to risk their savings, marriages etc to make a fortune. Some become rich and lose everything. Some even bounce back Thats just part of life. Im not saying its right or wrong but thats reality.

Its not our right to judge whats moral and immoral as long as its legal. A Rod is making 33 million this year just to play a sport. Good for him.

If you invent something and you sell your patent and get a huge payday ....Mazeltov

Should the super rich pay 39.6% Sure. Im not opposed to that.

[Bob Impact]

It's that goddamn Rand bullshit. Ties into this feeling of superiority that some people have, where they feel like "I (or so and so) made it, so why didn't you?"

The world is not black and white. Sometimes people succeed because frankly, they get lucky, or the catch an unbelievable break. It doesn't all come from simply "working hard". You can be the hardest worker in the world, but if you don't catch that break, or are lucky enough to where something big happens (like when you send your tape of parody songs into the local radio station, which leads to a multimillion dollar broadcasting career), it doesn't make you any less of a person than someone that did.

And you know what? Even "success" is something that's debatable, because everything is not about fucking money. People go into the public services like teaching, and fight fires and become soldiers and police the streets because they feel a certain obligation to serve society. They deserve the right to have a roof over their heads and their kids educated as much as the next guy.

As a man who loves Rand's work let me just put this out there... Your first point is the exact opposite of what Rand wrote, she advocated that people should NEVER compare themselves to others. Your value is based on you and you alone, regardless of how anyone else thinks of you. Replace the phrase "obligation to serve society" with "desire to serve justice" and you basically have a paragraph that Rand would have written. Point is, the Tea party != Objectivism.

[Bob Impact]

Also, to be clear, I do agree with a few of your points I have a great job, I am not ashamed of the fact that I make a very good wage, nor that I am very good at what I do, but primarily my job is great because I get to create what I want in the way I want to create it. I got this job by taking a temporary position years ago and through a series of lucky breaks (a new hire didn't show for his first day which allowed the money that would have gone to his salary to go to mine) as well as my own work and talents.

Sure luck or chance or whatever you want to call it has a part in the world, I don't think Rand would even try to say that it doesn't, in fact you can see the points you make in her work. The thing we're all talking about here is entitlement, Rand just railed against it more uniformly than most.
Look a the primary villains of Atlas Shrugged a little bit more closely... that book is not against the "little guy" in any way.
1) An heir who feels they are owed unearned respect (James Taggart)
2) The thieving corporation who is fleecing the public to line their own pockets (90% of the villains in Atlas Shrugged)
3) The "little guy" who doesn't want to work for their life(Phillip Rearden)

Now look at the heros:
1) An heiress and an heir who want to make their own mark on their families legacy (Dagny Taggart and Francisco D'Anconia).
2) A "little guy" who always wants to do the right thing (Eddie Willers)
3) The "self made man" (John Galt and Hank Rearden)

Point is, I get that people have a gut reaction to Rand because of the douchebags who call themselves Objectivists but when you actually look at it objectively (see what I did there?) she's a pretty reasonable gal, at least on paper... her personal life... oof.

[Recyclerz]

Also, to be clear, I do agree with a few of your points I have a great job, I am not ashamed of the fact that I make a very good wage, nor that I am very good at what I do, but primarily my job is great because I get to create what I want in the way I want to create it. I got this job by taking a temporary position years ago and through a series of lucky breaks (a new hire didn't show for his first day which allowed the money that would have gone to his salary to go to mine) as well as my own work and talents.

Sure luck or chance or whatever you want to call it has a part in the world, I don't think Rand would even try to say that it doesn't, in fact you can see the points you make in her work. The thing we're all talking about here is entitlement, Rand just railed against it more uniformly than most.
Look a the primary villains of Atlas Shrugged a little bit more closely... that book is not against the "little guy" in any way.
1) An heir who feels they are owed unearned respect (James Taggart)
2) The thieving corporation who is fleecing the public to line their own pockets (90% of the villains in Atlas Shrugged)
3) The "little guy" who doesn't want to work for their life(Phillip Rearden)

Now look at the heros:
1) An heiress and an heir who want to make their own mark on their families legacy (Dagny Taggart and Francisco D'Anconia).
2) A "little guy" who always wants to do the right thing (Eddie Willers)
3) The "self made man" (John Galt and Hank Rearden)

Point is, I get that people have a gut reaction to Rand because of the douchebags who call themselves Objectivists but when you actually look at it objectively (see what I did there?) she's a pretty reasonable gal, at least on paper... her personal life... oof.

See, if all right-wing nuts were as cool as Bob Impact we could have nice things around here. :innocent:
By laying out his thinking and being a person instead of just indulging in ad hominem attacks or screamng bumpersticker slogans he adds to the discourse.

Which is why I'll be very polite and respectful when I explain to him why he's wrong about everything. :wink: But I have to leave to go serve Mammon at the moment.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

What gets me is when I hear about working people. What is the definition of that? Just because someone isn't working on an assembly line or a teacher doesnt mean that they are not working people. There are tons of people who work white collar jobs working long hours and are not making 6 figure salaries. Many on the left think only the blue collars are the only people that are working class.


As far as the right, they are just as guilty. When they say catchphrases like true Americans or that the Midwest is real America

[A.J.]

What gets me is when I hear about working people. What is the definition of that? Just because someone isn't working on an assembly line or a teacher doesnt mean that they are not working people. There are tons of people who work white collar jobs working long hours and are not making 6 figure salaries. Many on the left think only the blue collars are the only people that are working class.


As far as the right, they are just as guilty. When they say catchphrases like true Americans or that the Midwest is real America

I'll agree on this point. I fucking hate the term "working families". It's bullshit. I'm pretty sure that Bil Gates and Warren Buffet go to work every day just like I do. And really, does everyone in the family work? Because I'm pretty sure there are child labor laws out there to prevent this.

[underdog]

Because I'm pretty sure there are child labor laws out there to prevent this.

Well, for now. (http://voices.kansascity.com/entries/missouri-senator-wants-repeal-child-labor-laws/)

[Bob Impact]

See, if all right-wing nuts were as cool as Bob Impact we could have nice things around here. :innocent:
By laying out his thinking and being a person instead of just indulging in ad hominem attacks or screamng bumpersticker slogans he adds to the discourse.
NO WAR FOR OIL!
NO WAR FOR OIL!
NO WAR FOR OIL!
NO WAR FOR OIL!
NO WAR FOR OIL!
NO WAR FOR OIL!

Wait, I mean... what?

But I have to leave to go serve Mammon at the moment.
I seriously laughed hard.

[hanso]

Let's deregulate everything. There won't be any fraud. The free market will soar. It always works itself out.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Fuck that. I want more federal bureaucracies layered on top of already existing agencies. The government isnt big enough.

[Syd]

Let's deregulate everything. There won't be any fraud. The free market will soar. It always works itself out.

given that half of the American population lives within 10 miles of a Superfund site, the market came up a bit short. Should have just let it get to 100%! up with hazardous waste! down with regulations!

[Dude!]

Fuck that. I want more federal bureaucracies layered on top of already existing agencies. The government isnt big enough.

right on!

and layoff the best teachers
first!

if they've been there the
longest...they must be the best!
seniority rocks!

rubber rooms at full pay
for all felonious teachers!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

right on!

and layoff the best teachers
first!

if they've been there the
longest...they must be the best!
seniority rocks!

rubber rooms at full pay
for all felonious teachers!

Heres my Public sector union rally cry. Today's t shirt color du jour is Red.

"Last in 1st out. Thats what we are all about"

[Dan 'Hampton]

Oooooh that rhymes. You must be a hit amongst your dull friends.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Oooooh that rhymes. You must be a hit amongst your dull friends.

Roses are Red
Violets are blue
Just tell your boyfriend
I wish I could quit you

[Barnaby Jones]

Roses are Red
Violets are blue
Just tell your boyfriend
I wish I could quit you

Typical regressive resorting to gay-bashing yet again and then crying foul when people say he's biogted!!!!

[Dan 'Hampton]

He's a wrestling fan obviously a fan of the gay.

[Syd]

also, throwing it out there as with others in this thread that I've done nothing spectacular, never really applied myself or worked very hard at anything but I've managed to lead a rather successful life so far. Why? As a white, born into middle upper class male I have no idea why I'd not have to struggle at any juncture in my life.

[underdog]

also, throwing it out there as with others in this thread that I've done nothing spectacular, never really applied myself or worked very hard at anything but I've managed to lead a rather successful life so far. Why? As a white, born into middle upper class male I have no idea why I'd not have to struggle at any juncture in my life.

I feel like I wrote that.

[hanso]

He's a wrestling fan obviously a fan of the gay.

When does he make himself a Sovereign Citizen?

[hanso]

You want to see the free market in action. Look at the CBA for the NFL. Don't worrie you get a merit badge.

[Bob Impact]

You want to see the free market in action. Look at the CBA for the NFL. Don't worrie you get a merit badge.

I was going to post a reply but I realized I have no idea what this is supposed to mean, do you mean that the union dropping out of federal mediation, decertifying and suing the owners to see their private financials is somehow a function of the free market?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

You want to see the free market in action. Look at the CBA for the NFL. Don't worrie you get a merit badge.

The NFL is different from the government. The NFL made something like 6 billion dollars last year. Wisconsin is not in the black

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I feel like I wrote that.

In other words, White guilt

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Typical regressive resorting to gay-bashing yet again and then crying foul when people say he's biogted!!!!

The only bigotry I have is towards trolls like you.

[hanso]

They went from splititng 1 B to now at 9 B. And won't open the books.
Sports teams always cry no profits yet hide a vast lump sum. Most big Corps cook books/have two sets.

[hanso]

A sports team gets big players that was never the case for the team. Season tickets sell out in a few weeks. The folks selling all these tickets get fired as a result for all their hard work. Free market woking itself out.

[Crispy123]

I was going to post a reply but I realized I have no idea what this is supposed to mean, do you mean that the union dropping out of federal mediation, decertifying and suing the owners to see their private financials is somehow a function of the free market?

The union didn't drop out of federal mediation. The CBA expired. The union decertified to file an antitrust lawsuit on the owners. The federal judge in the matter already ruled that the owners violated the CBA by the deal they made with the TV networks.

[Syd]

I was going to post a reply but I realized I have no idea what this is supposed to mean, do you mean that the union dropping out of federal mediation, decertifying and suing the owners to see their private financials is somehow a function of the free market?

NFL is so far from the free market. It's kind of a clusterfuck of neoliberal capitalism with a dash of concussions.

[hanso]

Yes, the seasonal operation with sharing and caps among teams are that. In order to give every team a fair shot. (any given sunday)

However the social ecnomic scale of workers to owners is much like it. If not for the players union they would get screwed far more. (trickle down)

[foodcourtdruide]

I don't think the NFL or other sports leagues would be a good example of pro or con-free market. They obviously aren't "free-market" since they operate under the rules of a non-free-market society, and they aren't "socialist" because they have a clear private profit motive. I just think they're two totally different things.

[Syd]

It's neo-liberal capitalist. It uses the state to enforce a monopoly or unfair conditions for the explicit motive of profit. Given that owners don't really do anything -- municipalities, states or other local entities end up paying for the stadium and the athletes provide the talent they're little more than white guys with money, yet they're the ones making the majority of the money while not taking any risk themselves.

[jonyrotn]

Don't worrie you get a merit badge.This reeks of Freudian slip..

[foodcourtdruide]

It's neo-liberal capitalist. It uses the state to enforce a monopoly or unfair conditions for the explicit motive of profit. Given that owners don't really do anything -- municipalities, states or other local entities end up paying for the stadium and the athletes provide the talent they're little more than white guys with money, yet they're the ones making the majority of the money while not taking any risk themselves.

I don't think that's either liberal or capitalist. It's something totally different, actually closer to an ogliarchy (which is really what WF probably wants) if you ask me.

[hanso]

This reeks of Freudian slip..

That was for WF saying he gets a raise based on it.

[hanso]

It's neo-liberal capitalist. It uses the state to enforce a monopoly or unfair conditions for the explicit motive of profit. Given that owners don't really do anything -- municipalities, states or other local entities end up paying for the stadium and the athletes provide the talent they're little more than white guys with money, yet they're the ones making the majority of the money while not taking any risk themselves.

You could replace CEO with that.

[sailor]

I don't think the NFL or other sports leagues would be a good example of pro or con-free market. They obviously aren't "free-market" since they operate under the rules of a non-free-market society, and they aren't "socialist" because they have a clear private profit motive. I just think they're two totally different things.

it's definitely not con-free.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_FQriLVy7Z-c/ShSXMk8uxWI/AAAAAAAAAC8/zviO55c2fjY/s320/vick2.jpg

http://www.freshyounginsight.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/AdamPacmanJones.jpeg

http://www.deathwish.net/~andy/moes/2002/chmuraincourt.jpg