1984 In the school cafeteria

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Big brother is watching what the snot monsters eat now.



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/foodanddrink/foodanddrinknews/8510181/Cameras-track-school-lunches-in-Texas-to-tackle-child-obesity.html


"Trevino said the children will not be photographed, and only children who have the permission of their parents or guardians will be allowed to participate."



WHAT?
how can you opt out? either the cameras are on or they're not.

[Dudeman]

Big brother is watching what the snot monsters eat now.



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/foodanddrink/foodanddrinknews/8510181/Cameras-track-school-lunches-in-Texas-to-tackle-child-obesity.html


"Trevino said the children will not be photographed, and only children who have the permission of their parents or guardians will be allowed to participate."



WHAT?
how can you opt out? either the cameras are on or they're not.

This thread was brought to you by the WF REPORT

[WRESTLINGFAN]

.


CIVIL LIBERTARIANS ARE RUINING THIS COUNTRY

:furious::furious::furious::furious:

[A.J.]

I thought this had to do with my freshman year of high school.

[Judge Smails]

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k144/nostalgiamanila/movies/class1984.jpg

[Jujubees2]

Big brother is watching what the snot monsters eat now.



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/foodanddrink/foodanddrinknews/8510181/Cameras-track-school-lunches-in-Texas-to-tackle-child-obesity.html


"Trevino said the children will not be photographed, and only children who have the permission of their parents or guardians will be allowed to participate."



WHAT?
how can you opt out? either the cameras are on or they're not.

Did you even read the story? It only takes a photo of the food tray. So you can opt out by not scanning your tray.

[Dudeman]

Did you even read the story? It only takes a photo of the food tray. So you can opt out by not scanning your tray.

it is his right as an american to have outrage about something he hasn't read

(see Common, rapper)

[WRESTLINGFAN]

it is his right as an american to have outrage about something he hasn't read

(see Common, rapper)

The cameras are still on. Like there will be no abuse of scanning. Like the scanner will be constantly tunned on and off Youre so gullible its cute

[Jujubees2]

The cameras are still on. Like there will be no abuse of scanning. Like the scanner will be constantly tunned on and off Youre so gullible its cute

and you're so paranoid it's even cuter!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

and you're so paranoid it's even cuter!

Gov't out of the bedroom maaaaaaaaaaaaaan!!!!!!


Gov't in the lunchroom just scan away.

[Jujubees2]

Gov't out of the bedroom maaaaaaaaaaaaaan!!!!!!


Gov't in the lunchroom just scan away.

Don't dare to drive in Kings Point! They're watching you!

http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=news/local/long_island&id=8094311

[Dudeman]

Gov't out of the bedroom maaaaaaaaaaaaaan!!!!!!


Gov't in the lunchroom just scan away.

obesity epidemic -> increased CAD, diabetes, HTN, ESRD -> soaring healthcare costs = sound fiscal policy

[Crispy123]

Gov't out of the bedroom maaaaaaaaaaaaaan!!!!!!


Gov't in the lunchroom just scan away.

bedroom = private residence

lunchroom = public, taxpayer funded building


that analogy makes sense! :wacko:

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Don't dare to drive in Kings Point! They're watching you!

http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=news/local/long_island&id=8094311

When fried foods are against the law then this might be a valid arguement

[Dudeman]

bedroom = private residence

lunchroom = public, taxpayer funded building


that analogy makes sense! :wacko:

:clap:

[WRESTLINGFAN]

bedroom = private residence

lunchroom = public, taxpayer funded building


that analogy makes sense! :wacko:

Really?


What law made fried chicken and potato chips illegal?

[Dudeman]

Really?


What law made fried chicken and potato chips illegal?

i dont want my tax dollars that the goverment stole from me going to:


obesity epidemic -> increased CAD, diabetes, HTN, ESRD -> soaring healthcare costs = sound fiscal policy????

[Crispy123]

Really?


What law made fried chicken and potato chips illegal?

What law makes french toast illegal?

better yet,

What the fuck are you talking about?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Reason #71 to abolish the Dept of Agriculture

Reason #55 to abolish the Dept of Education

[Crispy123]

Reason #71 to abolish the Dept of Agriculture

Reason #55 to abolish the Dept of Education

reason #10001 to stay out of WF threads.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

What law makes french toast illegal?

better yet,

What the fuck are you talking about?

Use that arguement if youre doing lines of blow and the cops come in with a warrant and arrests you. I'll be waiting for your call from jail


Optional or not, it's just another way for Big Brother to watch us and squeal to the food police. This is one of those things that should not have federal funding. Talk about waste.

[Dudeman]

obesity epidemic -> increased CAD, diabetes, HTN, ESRD -> soaring healthcare costs = sound fiscal policy????

you offer no solution to this, wf

[WRESTLINGFAN]

reason 10001 to stay out of WF threads.

You people are so god damned inconsistent. Dont tap my phones maaaaaaaaan. I agree with that but the benevolent all knowing nanny state monitoring food intake you have nothing wrong with

[Crispy123]

What law makes french toast illegal?

better yet,

What the fuck are you talking about?

Use that arguement if youre doing lines of blow and the cops come in with a warrant and arrests you. I'll be waiting for your call from jail


Optional or not, it's just another way for Big Brother to watch us and squeal to the food police. This is one of those things that should not have federal funding. Talk about waste.

Which one of those questions was that an answer to? Or are you trying to justify that horrible analogy you made earlier?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

you offer no solution to this, wf

Personal responsibility, eating the right foods, diet exercise healthy lifestyle lower health care costs. Not soo diffucult.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Which one of those questions was that an answer to? Or are you trying to justify that horrible analogy you had earlier?

Youre comparing home invasions to a kid eating onion rings?


Why would any sane parent want to have their kids monitored on camera and scanned

[Crispy123]

Personal responsibility, eating the right foods, diet exercise healthy lifestyle lower health care costs. Not soo diffucult.

and yet recognizing the difference between private and public or making a coherent argument is...

Youre comparing home invasions to a kid eating onion rings?

case in point. What the fuck are you talking about?

[Snacks]

Who fucking cares if they are scanning it or keeping notes? No one is being filmed. The food is being filmed as it passes by the cameras. So unless you are interviewed and get permission to do so or you put your head on a tray as it goes by the camera then you have nothing to worry about. They arent filming the people eating or picking the food they are only filming what slides under the camera!

[Dudeman]

Personal responsibility, eating the right foods, diet exercise healthy lifestyle lower health care costs. Not soo diffucult.

Obviously thats not working at all. (fez taking personal resposibilty for his poor diet and lack of excercise, despite 3 heart attacks and diabetes?)

Your overly simple, cookie cutter response (personal responsibity) to this issue has failed.

And the first lady is trying to promote the necessary personal responsibility buy encouraging kids to eat healthy and exercise, and you mock her endlessly for it. (because she's a democrat?)

So now what???

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Who fucking cares if they are scanning it or keeping notes? No one is being filmed. The food is being filmed as it passes by the cameras. So unless you are interviewed and get permission to do so or you put your head on a tray as it goes by the camera then you have nothing to worry about. They arent filming the people eating or picking the food they are only filming what slides under the camera!

Again do you think there wont be any abuse of this?


Can't they do anything better with a 2MM Grant?

[Snacks]

Again do you think there wont be any abuse of this?


Can't they do anything better with a 2MM Grant?

how can they abuse it? unless they walk around with a camera crew there is no way to abuse it. The camera is stationary and is hanging down facing down. What are you so worried about?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

wouldn't it be easier if the government and the school just provide healthy food in the first place. The long and short of it is that the government already knows what these kids are eating so exactly where is this money going.?

[Dude!]

i dont want my tax dollars that the goverment stole from me going to:


obesity epidemic -> increased CAD, diabetes, HTN, ESRD -> soaring healthcare costs = sound fiscal policy????

gay sex > AIDS transmission, anal fissures, STD's > soaring healthcare costs = sound fiscal policy????

explain the difference to me

[WRESTLINGFAN]

how can they abuse it? unless they walk around with a camera crew there is no way to abuse it. The camera is stationary and is hanging down facing down. What are you so worried about?

The camera needs maintenance and needs to be operated, if you think theres no chance someone wont reposition it, thats being naive

[Crispy123]

wouldn't it be easier if the government and the school just provide healthy food in the first place. The long and short of it is that the government already knows what these kids are eating so exactly where is this money going.?

So you want the government to come into the schools and ass rape all the children?

Thats socialism!!!




(yay, I can do it too!)

[Dudeman]

gay sex > AIDS transmission, anal fissures, STD's > soaring healthcare costs = sound fiscal policy????


sex education and condoms


(but nice try)

[Snacks]

obviously thats not working at all. (fez taking personal resposibilty for his poor diet and lack of excercise, despite 3 heart attacks and diabetes?)

Your overly simple, cookie cutter response (personal responsibity) to this issue has failed.

so now what???

exactly. if you put 100 kids in a room with cookies, candy and fruits and veggies and tell he kids eat whatever you want 90% if not more would pick the crap. Fuck you could do that with educated adults and the same % would pick crap. People who are dying of lung cancer cant stop smoking, people who are obese dont change their eating habits for life. Personal responsibility is a nice theory but its not realistic. We have created a society of guilty pleasures and instant gratification and thats fine but its very hard to change. so maybe by educating people and showing them exactly what they are doing will help change.

[Zorro]

We're going to snap a picture of the food tray at the cashier and we will know what has been served," said Dr. Roberto Trevino of the San Antonio-based Social and Health Research Center, which is implementing the pilot programme at five schools with high rates of childhood obesity and children living in poverty.


Targeting black kids. Typical.

[Snacks]

The camera needs maintenance and needs to be operated, if you think theres no chance someone wont reposition it, thats being naive

and once again you dont answer the question. WHAT FUCKING ABUSE COULD HAPPEN? do you think someone will make child porn out of fat kids eating chips? Do you think they will create hidden videos to show on TV for Americas funniest videos or for youtube? What could they use these for other then to try to understand how dumb we truly are?

[Dudeman]

wouldn't it be easier if the government and the school just provide healthy food in the first place.

You are exactly like the first lady of the united states!!!!!!!!


To make school food healthy, Michelle Obama has a tall order

Obama noted in announcing her initiative last week, "and what we don't want is a situation where parents are taking all the right steps at home -- and then their kids undo all that work with salty, fatty food in the school cafeteria," she explained. "So let's move to get healthier food into our nation's schools." (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/02/11/AR2010021103894.html)


Michelle and WF sitting in a tree, restricting personal choice, i n g?

[Zorro]

and once again you dont answer the question. WHAT FUCKING ABUSE COULD HAPPEN? do you think someone will make child porn out of fat kids eating chips? Do you think they will create hidden videos to show on TV for Americas funniest videos or for youtube? What could they use these for other then to try to understand how dumb we truly are?

one word: MARKETING

[WRESTLINGFAN]

and once again you dont answer the question. WHAT FUCKING ABUSE COULD HAPPEN? do you think someone will make child porn out of fat kids eating chips? Do you think they will create hidden videos to show on TV for Americas funniest videos or for youtube? What could they use these for other then to try to understand how dumb we truly are?

Someone can post youtube videos of fatties if they are able to reposition the camera. When programs like this happen there are always unintended consequences just like with a lot of other gov't programs

[WRESTLINGFAN]

You are exactly like the first lady of the united states!!!!!!!!


To make school food healthy, Michelle Obama has a tall order

Obama noted in announcing her initiative last week, "and what we don't want is a situation where parents are taking all the right steps at home -- and then their kids undo all that work with salty, fatty food in the school cafeteria," she explained. "So let's move to get healthier food into our nation's schools." (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/02/11/AR2010021103894.html)


Michelle and WF sitting in a tree, restricting personal choice, i n g?

Sounds hot


Restricting personal choice would be banning junk food if brought from home.

[Dudeman]

exactly. if you put 100 kids in a room with cookies, candy and fruits and veggies and tell he kids eat whatever you want 90% if not more would pick the crap. Fuck you could do that with educated adults and the same % would pick crap. People who are dying of lung cancer cant stop smoking, people who are obese dont change their eating habits for life. Personal responsibility is a nice theory but its not realistic. We have created a society of guilty pleasures and instant gratification and thats fine but its very hard to change. so maybe by educating people and showing them exactly what they are doing will help change.

yea!

follow the logic:
1. poor personal choices: lack of exercise, poor diet
2. obesity epidemic
3. CAD, HTN, ESRD, diabetes
4. increased healthcare costs

Anyone here have good solutions? Here are some options:
1. personal choice... wait that is the problem, not the solution
2. tax unhealthy food to get the people with bad choices paying for the increased healthcare expenditures
3. find ways to promote healthier lifestyle choices

Not an easy situation, no easy solutions. But if you want to deal with out of control healthcare expenditures, you've got to start somewhere.

(crispy123, snacks, jujubees2... pleasure doing business with you)

[Crispy123]

yea!

follow the logic:
1. poor personal choices: lack of exercise, poor diet
2. obesity epidemic
3. CAD, HTN, ESRD, diabetes
4. increased healthcare costs

Anyone here have good solutions? Here are some options:
1. personal choice... wait that is the problem, not the solution
2. tax unhealthy food to get the people with bad choices paying for the increased healthcare expenditures
3. find ways to promote healthier lifestyle choices

Not an easy situation, no easy solutions. But if you want to deal with out of control healthcare expenditures, you've got to start somewhere.

(crispy123, snacks, jujubees2... pleasure doing business with you)

likewise!

except you forgot: repeal dept of Ag, Fox = good MSNBC = bad, and Obama is a Socialist.

[Dude!]

sex education and condoms


(but nice try)

nice try on your part...

wh no taking pictures of cocks
and weighing the semen left
in your butt?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

likewise!


except you forgot: repeal dept of Ag, Agree Fox = bad MSNBC = bad, and Obama is a Corporatist .


Fixed

[WRESTLINGFAN]

yea!

follow the logic:
1. poor personal choices: lack of exercise, poor diet
2. obesity epidemic
3. CAD, HTN, ESRD, diabetes
4. increased healthcare costs

Anyone here have good solutions? Here are some options:
1. personal choice... wait that is the problem, not the solution
2. tax unhealthy food to get the people with bad choices paying for the increased healthcare expenditures
3. find ways to promote healthier lifestyle choices

Not an easy situation, no easy solutions. But if you want to deal with out of control healthcare expenditures, you've got to start somewhere.

(crispy123, snacks, jujubees2... pleasure doing business with you)

Tax deductions for gym,pilates yoga memberships. Could be an incentive for people to get off the couch

[Dudeman]

Tax deductions for gym,pilates yoga memberships. Could be an incentive for people to get off the couch

That's the best you can offer for the obesity epidemic? Pathetic.

Not so easy when you have to actually find real solutions for real problems, rather than just relying on the same tired slogans (personal responsibility will solve all the problems!) and criticizing everyone else's attempts.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

That's the best you can offer for the obesity epidemic? Pathetic.

Not so easy when you have to actually find real solutions for real problems, rather than just relying on the same tired slogans (personal responsibility will solve all the problems!) and criticizing everyone else's attempts.

Why does everything have to be some massive project when some simple solutions can be used. Why not? If youre spending $80 a month on a membership thats your incentive.


Even without the taxbreaks The weathers nice now go for a walk or hop on a bike.

Theres P90X and other DVDs. There are tons of ways to live healthy.


You can even buy this


http://www.ethicurean.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/eat_this_not_that.jpg

[Dudeman]

Why does everything have to be some massive project when some simple solutions can be used. Why not? If youre spending $80 a month on a membership thats your incentive.


Even without the taxbreaks The weathers nice now go for a walk or hop on a bike.

1. What is your "simple solution"???

That's you and Ron in a nut shell- complaining about solutions not being easier and simpler, but not offering a real solution that really deals with the real problem and real people because dealing with some real problems is actually difficult with no easy simple answers

2. I agree!!!! Go for a walk or hop on a bike (while wearing a bike helmet). But people aren't doing that. So the problem continues.....

[WRESTLINGFAN]

1. What is your "simple solution"???

2. I agree!!!! Go for a walk or hop on a bike (while wearing a bike helmet). But people aren't doing that. So the problem continues.....

Helmet optional

In life we make choices, the only other thing is to make exercise mandatory. Do you want that?

[Dudeman]

Helmet optional


still waiting to hear your "simple solution"

[WRESTLINGFAN]

still waiting to hear your "simple solution"

Eat right diet and exercise. If I get sick my cost wont be as much.


Personal responsiblilty.
Keep the government out as much as possible. For every problem they try to fix, they create new ones.

Not too difficult

[Dudeman]

Eat right diet and exercise. If I get sick my cost wont be as much.


Personal responsiblilty.
Keep the government out as much as possible. For every problem they try to fix, they create new ones.

Not too difficult

No shit. THe question isn't what is healthy (better diet and exercise); the question is how to get people to make the right diet and exercise decisions. Because clearly they are not.

You're not dealing with the problem. We already went over this:

If it were that simple, why aren't people making those personal choices?????????

Personal choices (bad diet and lack of exercise) is causing the problem. How can it be the solution??? Why all of a sudden are people going to start eating healthy and exercising?

How do we get them to make those choices, because they clearly aren't?

Waiting for the "simple solution" to the real problem/question...

[WRESTLINGFAN]

No shit. THe question isn't what is healthy (better diet and exercise); the question is how to get people to make the right diet and exercise decisions. Because clearly they are not.

You're not dealing with the problem. We already went over this:

If it were that simple, why aren't people making those personal choices?????????

People are free to choose how to live their lives
Personal choices (bad diet and lack of exercise) is causing the problem. How can it be the solution??? Why all of a sudden are people going to start eating healthy and exercising?

How do we get them to make those choices, because they clearly aren't?

Those are the consequences of living in a relatively free society. If you want to kill obesity then have North Korea type government

Waiting for the "simple solution" to the real problem/question...

The simple soulution is for people to take charge of their own lives. There is no excuse not to be healthy with all the resources out there. It doesnt have to be a fucking project like you want it to be. Does everything have to be put in some 4000 page bill from some fat bloated politician?

Also how about Obama not appointing a fatty as Surg General?

Should she be the top Doc ?


http://www.danielangle.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/surgeongeneral.jpg

[Dudeman]

[B]The simple soulution is for people to take charge of their own lives. There is no excuse not to be healthy with all the resources out there.


I agree, that is the simple solution.

But the reality is they aren't.

So now what?


(stop just saying personal responsibility, because then i just have to say that that obviously isn't working.)

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I agree, that is the simple solution.

But the reality is they aren't.

So now what?


(stop just saying personal responsibility, because then i just have to say that that obviously isn't working.)

Obama could appoint a SG who isnt the size of a linebacker for one. Maybe have PSA's showing the effects of eating junkfood and fast foos on a regular basis.

[Dudeman]

Obama could appoint a SG who isnt the size of a linebacker for one. Maybe have PSA's showing the effects of eating junkfood and fast foos on a regular basis.

1. You'd mock those PSAs endlessly. (And doesn't seem like they fit into your definition of the role of government.)

2. That's the best youve got for the obesity epidemic? Pathetic.

Peace out. :surrender:

[Crispy123]

Obama could appoint a SG who isnt the size of a linebacker for one. Maybe have PSA's showing the effects of eating junkfood and fast foos on a regular basis.

Ahhh so we DO need government telling us what to do. Interesting. This sounds a lot like the Surgeon Generals pledge to fight childhood obesity, BTW

Surgeon General’s Pledge
I pledge to:

•Be a role model by making healthy choices for myself.
•Help children be physically active through everyday play and participation in sports.
•Support children’s healthy eating habits.
A healthy future is our gift to our children.



Signature

[Snacks]

Its the same argument when it comes to regulation for businesses. The people like WF think there shouldnt be laws because people will do the right thing. The problem is they wont. They will only live up to what they HAVE to do by law. So regulate them so they cant fuck people over. Same goes with this. People know they are doing wrong but its easier and cheaper to eat like a pig and be lazy. So instead of giving a tax break for gym membership lets give better education, better healthcare and reward people for being healthy by them living longer!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Ahhh so we DO need government telling us what to do. Interesting. This sounds a lot like the Surgeon Generals pledge to fight childhood obesity, BTW

Those aren't demands see the difference ?

Since we are paying the fat bastard she should set an example

[Crispy123]

Those aren't demands see the difference ?

Since we are paying the fat bastard she should set an example

Have you figured out the difference between a private residence and a public school yet?

Tell me what the demand is by scanning lunch trays.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

No I don't know the difference. Explain to me


Like this won't have unintended consequences and abuses. This grant money doled out should be going to i dunno maybe books, school supplies , maintenance of the school. Maybe it has a leaky roof.


This is your Ag and Ed dept at its best

[Dudeman]

Have you figured out the difference between a private residence and a public school yet?

Tell me what the demand is by scanning lunch trays.

Have we come up with better "simple" solutions to the obesity epidemic and the rising healthcare expenditures?

So far we have the colossally stupid "personal choice" solution (which is the problem, not the solution), some PSAs, and gym membership discounts.

So easy to throw out cookie cutter slogans and mock people trying to deal with real world problems, a little harder actually having to deal with the real world, right Ron Paul?

[SonOfSmeagol]

So far we have the colossally stupid "personal choice" solution (which is the problem, not the solution), some PSAs, and gym membership discounts.

are you insane? Personal Choice is not a "problem" or a "solution". It just is, and will always be.

[Dudeman]

are you insane? Personal Choice is not a "problem" or a "solution". It just is, and will always be.

Don't just look for buzz words, follow the conversation. He said personal choice would SOLVE the obesity epidemic, when a major contribution to the epidemic is people making poor health care choices. Get out of the abstract and into the real world.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Have we come up with better "simple" solutions to the obesity epidemic and the rising healthcare expenditures?

So far we have the colossally stupid "personal choice" solution (which is the problem, not the solution), some PSAs, and gym membership discounts.

So easy to throw out cookie cutter slogans and mock people trying to deal with real world problems, a little harder actually having to deal with the real world, right Ron Paul?

You always have to turn something into a monsterous project. What should be done? Have a blue ribbon panel fuck lets spend 10 billion on that followed by a 3000 page bill


No wonder shit doesnt get done in this country pseudo intellectuals just sitting on their asses with no solutions or just kick the can down the road and expand already bloated bureaucracies or come up with new ones.

[Dudeman]

You always have to turn something into a monsterous project. What should be done? Have a blue ribbon panel fuck lets spend 10 billion on that followed by a 3000 page bill


No wonder shit doesnt get done in this country pseudo intellectuals just sitting on their asses with no solutions or just kick the can down the road and expand already bloated bureaucracies or come up with new ones.

Ok. So what's your simple solution?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Ok. So what's your simple solution?

Let people decide on their own


Broccoli yes. Fried Chicken no

Will Obesity ever be wiped out? Of course not but people are free to decide what to eat that affects their lives.

[Dudeman]

Let people decide on their own


Broccoli yes. Fried Chicken no

Will Obesity ever be wiped out? Of course not but people are free to decide what to eat that affects their lives.

Holy shit. You didn't just do that.

No 'personal choice answer' as the "simple solution"- once again, bad personal choices is what is contributing to the epidemic.

How do you get people to make the choice "Broccoli yes. Fried Chicken no" because they aren't doing that?

No one is talking about wiping out obesity. Your typical straw man rhetoric. It is about curbing the obesity epidemic's contribution to the out of control healthcare expenditures- you know, fiscal responsibility...

Once again, you've mocked others' attempts to deal with the problem... what is your solution?

(And if you say personal choice again, then I know you are a total fucking joke.)

[SonOfSmeagol]

Don't just look for buzz words, follow the conversation. He said personal choice would SOLVE the obesity epidemic, when a major contribution to the epidemic is people making poor health care choices. Get out of the abstract and into the real world.

I follow it just fine, right here in the real world. Choose to watch your own house. Choose to look out for your kids, mother, father, brother, sister, cousin and all the rest and tell them what's what. Choose to go to the school and see what's up. Choose to look out for your friend or acquaintance, and if you're not close enough, find someone closer.

The First Lady's initiative is admirable, and worthwhile. As are other awareness, informational, advisory programs. But, the government will NOT make the choices. I will.

[Dudeman]

I follow it just fine, right here in the real world. Choose to watch your own house. Choose to look out for your kids, mother, father, brother, sister, cousin and all the rest and tell them what's what. Choose to go to the school and see what's up. Choose to look out for your friend or acquaintance, and if you're not close enough, find someone closer.

The First Lady's initiative is admirable, and worthwhile. As are other awareness, informational, advisory programs. But, the government will NOT make the choices. I will.

Then how are you going to control the out of control health care expenditures due (in part) to the obesity epidemic?

But thank-you for at least acknowledging what Michelle Obama is trying to do is worthwhile. I appreciate someone who can acknowledge when something is good, regardless of partisan leanings.

I know what you guys don't like for the solutions. There are no easy solutions. I'm open to hear alternatives, if they are serious and legitimate attempts.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Holy shit. You didn't just do that.

No 'personal choice answer' as the "simple solution"- once again, bad personal choices is what is contributing to the epidemic.

How do you get people to make the choice "Broccoli yes. Fried Chicken no" because they aren't doing that?

No one is talking about wiping out obesity. Your typical straw man rhetoric. It is about curbing the obesity epidemic's contribution to the out of control healthcare expenditures- you know, fiscal responsibility...

Once again, you've mocked others' attempts to deal with the problem... what is your solution?

(And if you say personal choice again, then I know you are a total fucking joke.)



PERSONAL CHOICE


POLICE YOUR OWN FUCKING SELF AND QUIT LOOKING FOR THE GOVT TO GUIDE YOU

[SonOfSmeagol]

Then how are you going to control the out of control health care expenditures due (in part) to the obesity epidemic?

But thank-you for at least acknowledging what Michelle Obama is trying to do is worthwhile. I appreciate someone who can acknowledge when something is good, regardless of partisan leanings.

I know what you guys don't like for the solutions. There are no easy solutions. I'm open to hear alternatives, if they are serious and legitimate attempts.

I think this whole thing is essentially the same as the soda debate last month and I feel the same here as I did then:
http://ronfez.net/forums/showpost.php?p=2842911&postcount=50

Snacks said it really well, much better than I did (I'm not sure I would completely disallow advertising though):
http://ronfez.net/forums/showpost.php?p=2843880&postcount=80

[Dudeman]

PERSONAL CHOICE


POLICE YOUR OWN FUCKING SELF AND QUIT LOOKING FOR THE GOVT TO GUIDE YOU

That's not a solution to the effect of the obesity epidemic on the rising healthcare expenditures. That will neither deal with the obesity epidemic, nor the rise in health care expenditures and their contribution to the economy.

Just know that you and Ron Paul's cookie cutter, slogan based attempt at a solution have failed, and you have failed to provide a viable alternative. You can only criticize. You can't actually deal with trying to solve real world problems.

[StanUpshaw]

That's not a solution to the effect of the obesity epidemic on the rising healthcare expenditures. That will neither deal with the obesity epidemic, nor the rise in health care expenditures and their contribution to the economy.

Just know that you and Ron Paul's cookie cutter, slogan based attempt at a solution have failed, and you have failed to provide a viable alternative. You can only criticize. You can't actually deal with trying to solve real world problems.

Long term weight loss has about the same success rate of long-term heroin cessation, so nothing he could suggest, nor anything you have suggested is what I would call "viable".

[Dudeman]

Long term weight loss has about the same success rate of long-term heroin cessation, so nothing he could suggest, nor anything you have suggested is what I would call "viable".

What? Are you saying poor diet and lack of exercise have nothing to do with adverse health outcomes??

Yes, "obesity" is not really a good description of the problem- that's why doctors prefer the term "metabolic syndrome."

The goal isn't really to just become less obese. The goal is to reduce the "metabolic syndrome." And exercise and better diet (ie. lifestyle choices) are far and away the first line of attempting to reduce the metabolic syndrome. Medications, like statins for hypercholesterolemia or oral hypoglycemic agents for type II diabetes, are second line choices.


FYI, the WHO definition of metabolic syndrome:

The World Health Organization criteria (1999) require presence of one of diabetes mellitus, impaired glucose tolerance, impaired fasting glucose or insulin resistance, AND two of the following:
Blood pressure: ≥ 140/90 mmHg
Dyslipidemia: triglycerides (TG): ≥ 1.695 mmol/L and high-density lipoprotein cholesterol (HDL-C) ≤ 0.9 mmol/L (male), ≤ 1.0 mmol/L (female)
Central obesity: waist:hip ratio > 0.90 (male); > 0.85 (female), or body mass index > 30 kg/m2
Microalbuminuria: urinary albumin excretion ratio ≥ 20 µg/min or albumin:creatinine ratio ≥ 30 mg/g

[StanUpshaw]

What? Are you saying poor diet and lack of exercise have nothing to do with adverse health outcomes??

That's nowhere near what I said. In fact, what I said is still there, two posts above this one, so feel free to reread it.

[Dudeman]

That's nowhere near what I said. In fact, what I said is still there, two posts above this one, so feel free to reread it.

Got it.

But where did I ever say anything about long term weight loss?

Yes, I used the term obesity, but as I explained above, that has become an unfortunate substitution for the much better description- metabolic syndrome.

If I had described the problem that way, instead of "obesity epidemic", would that have been better? I think it would be....

How do we get people to make better lifestyle choices (exercise and better diet) to reduce the prevalence of the metabolic syndrome which has a major negative effect on our healthcare expenditures and ultimately our economy?

[StanUpshaw]

How do we get people to make better lifestyle choices (exercise and better diet) to reduce the prevalence of the metabolic syndrome which has a major negative effect on our healthcare expenditures and ultimately our economy?

I don't know.

What I do know is that it's a scientific matter, not a legislative one.

[Dudeman]

I don't know.

What I do know is that it's a scientific matter, not a legislative one.

But the science/medical issue is sort of settled. Every internist, cardiologist, endocrinologist, and pediatrician agrees that the first line of intervention for the metabolic syndrome is lifestyle changes (before statins, anti-hypertensives, oral hypoglycemics, etc.)

Many MDs and MD-MPHs are in their communities trying to increase exercise and proper diet choices. We all want people to make the right choices. That would be far and away the best/ideal solution. But it just is insufficient right now.

Meanwhile we can't afford to continue paying for the consequences of the metabolic syndrome- diabetes, HTN-> ESRD-> dialysis, CAD-> stents and CABG procedures.

[StanUpshaw]

Like you said, doctors and WF agree that the best course of action is for people to make healthier choices.

But since that doesn't work well, you contend that you have to alter a person's ability to make free choice. If you're going to cross that line, why not do something that will actually work? Declare that an obese person is breaking the law. Being obese is no different than riding a motorcycle without a helmet (worse even!). It's an unreasonable burden for society to bear.

Make the obese register, then set fitness goals they must reach, and if they don't they have to pay fines or serve time. I don't see why we have to pussyfoot around the issue, and I don't see why the fit should have to be punished by overarching legislation or taxes.