NYC Politics and stuff

[WRESTLINGFAN]

http://gothamist.com/2011/05/25/nyc_health_department_wants_to_ban.php

[Chigworthy]

Under that proposed law, I'm guessing a fine Belgian Lambic will be outlawed at bodegas as well.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Mosque yes. Booze, transfats cigs and salt no

[Chigworthy]

Mosque yes. Booze, transfats cigs and salt no

It can be one more thing that New Yorkers bring up about how much their city sucks, right after they tell you it's the best place in the world.

[Jujubees2]

Of course WF is being overzealous again. If you read the story it states that they want to stop the sale of it at bodegas but it would still be available in liquor stores.

[sailor]

Shouldn't the real target be the store owners if they don't check id's?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Pointing out that the city is picking and choosing places of business isn't being overzealous

[Jujubees2]

Pointing out that the city is picking and choosing places of business isn't being overzealous

It is when you title the thread "NYC Wants to ban Mike's hard lemonade"

[Snoogans]

Unfortunately, these ‘bridging’ beverages are readily available to the adolescents to whom they are marketed. Alcopops are sold alongside beer, juice, and soda, in grocery and convenience stores. Children and adolescents already frequent these outlets for food and beverages, increasing their exposure to alcopops.

none of this makes sense. One, they are marketed to women, for the most part, not really kids. they dont use any dickhead cartoons or anything like cigarettes used to do.

And if they are sold alongside beer at stores the kids already go to, why are we tryin to ban it from OTHER stores? Im pretty sure there arent alot of kids wandering into bodegas

[Snoogans]

Assembly Member Ortiz and Senator Klein have introduced legislation to designate alcopops with an alcohol content of 6% or higher as liquor, thus restricting the sale of these drinks to liquor stores and taking them out of the grocery stores and delis where underage drinkers are more likely to purchase them.

or ya know, we enforce the laws about how you cant sell them to minors. So now we are gonna stop selling liquor because some people who own stores might sell it to minors?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

It is when you title the thread "NYC Wants to ban Mike's hard lemonade"

A ban is a ban. Now If I said citywide ban you would have an arguement. I want to know why someone in Spanish harlem will have to take the 4/5 to 86th street if he wants a mikes.


Why does Bloomy hate hispanics?

[Dudeman]

When it comes to government intrusion into the lives of citizens, history will record Mikes lemonade right along NSA warrentless wiretapping.

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSA_warrantless_surveillance_controversy)

You remember that controversy... started during an administration of Ron Paul's Republican party and exposed by those damn liberals at the NY Times.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

When it comes to government intrusion into the lives of citizens, history will record Mikes lemonade right along NSA warrentless wiretapping.

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSA_warrantless_surveillance_controversy)

You remember that controversy... started during an administration of Ron Paul's Republican party and exposed by those damn liberals at the NY Times.

When you mention Patriot act. Please tell me where ron paul supports it.

its your Democratic President signing the extension.

Its also your Democratic president starting another war, violating the war powers act.

[Chigworthy]

After watching Beer Wars, I wonder if this is some sort of conniving of the big three beer corporations. I'm assuming Mike's is still independent and the market for "Tequiza" has dried up.

[Dudeman]

When you mention Patriot act. Please tell me where ron paul supports it.

its your Democratic President signing the extension.

Its also your Democratic president starting another war, violating the war powers act.

I just wish you had your panties in as much of a bunch when Ron Paul's Republican party does warrentless wiretapping as you do about Mikes Lemonade or something by a democrat. Perspective and consistency.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Isnt Tequiza part of AB?

Sad now that its a Belgian company now, Budweiser can't call itself an American original

[sailor]

You're kidding there aren't kids in bodegas, right?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I just wish you had your panties in as much of a bunch when Ron Paul's Republican party does warrentless wiretapping as you do about Mikes Lemonade or something by a democrat. Perspective and consistency.

You soiled yours when it was dubya approving them but wheres your outrage now?

Thats right. the man with the funny name is in the Oval office. Nothing to see here


Do you remember the administration encouraging people to rat each other out in 2009 over the Obamacare issue? do you remember that defunct email address flag@whitehouse.gov


Iraq was illegal but Libya is ok?

[sailor]

If you want to discuss wiretapping, go to or make a thread for that, guys. Thanks.

[Snacks]

Another stupid bill/law for some stupid local politician to get his or her name out there to make it seem like hes protecting your kids. Once again if alcohol is legal then they have no right to say if its regular beer or fruity flavored beer. Just because something has a lemonade flavor or grape flavor doesnt mean kids want to drink it or that it is being made for kids. Do they really think if they stop selling at bodegas teens cant get beer or other alcohol other places? I would bet most teens dont get it themselves they steal it from their parents or have older friends/family members buy or for them anyway. So once again instead of going after the real problem they go after the problem that will fuck over the people that the bill isnt meant to which is avg joe adult citizen!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

This is the continued slippery slope. So whats next? Banning cigarettes in certain stores/neighborhoods ?

Maybe ban flavored cigars because there might be some teenagers using them to stuff their skunk weed into?

[Snoogans]

You're kidding there aren't kids in bodegas, right?

ive pretty much never seen people in bodegas, period. but all those places also sell beer. I dont get the whole point of how this is made for kids to buy when every single place its sold its sold next to beer.

[Dudeman]

You soiled yours when it was dubya approving them but wheres your outrage now?

Thats right. the man with the funny name is in the Oval office. Nothing to see here


Look at the latest issue of The NewYorker to see the real "left's" opinion on the current administration on wiretapping- not msncb. But that will require reading.

[Snacks]

ive pretty much never seen people in bodegas, period. but all those places also sell beer. I dont get the whole point of how this is made for kids to buy when every single place its sold its sold next to beer.

Exactly. Now if they wanted to pass a rule that the 4 loco and other fruity or all alcohol drinks cant be in cans that resemble an energy drink so that it doesnt confuse the dummies working the register, then do that but to ban it from being sold in stores that will continue to sell other alcoholic beverages similar is wrong!

[Devo37]

i totally agree with this ban! in fact, i think we should ban all businesses from operating in nyc.

if you can't sell anything, kids can't get their stupid little hands on it, right nanny?

:furious: :wallbash: :annoyed: :thumbdown:

p.s. first they came for the cigarettes, and you did nothing, because you don't smoke....

[Snacks]

i totally agree with this ban! in fact, i think we should ban all businesses from operating in nyc.

if you can't sell anything, kids can't get their stupid little hands on it, right nanny?

:furious: :wallbash: :annoyed: :thumbdown:

p.s. first they came for the cigarettes, and you did nothing, because you don't smoke....



I dont care where they sell cigarettes or alcohol. But there needs to be age laws on both and I have no problem with taxing the hell out of both and restricted them to where they can be smoked or drank!

[Misteriosa]

I dont care where they sell cigarettes or alcohol. But there needs to be age laws on both and I have no problem with taxing the hell out of both and restricted them to where they can be smoked or drank!

age laws on cigs and alcohol? is that what you mean? because last i checked, the laws currently say 18 for cigs and 21 for booze. :unsure:

[Chigworthy]

Isnt Tequiza part of AB?

Sad now that its a Belgian company now, Budweiser can't call itself an American original

Tequiza is made my a major corp, that's the point. Mike's stole the fruit malt market, now maybe the big boys are just trying to chip away at 'em. This type of business was documented in Beer Wars. And if you watch that, you'll realize that AB was nothing to be proud of as far as their practices.

[Snacks]

age laws on cigs and alcohol? is that what you mean? because last i checked, the laws currently say 18 for cigs and 21 for booze. :unsure:

yes, meaning they need to stay. no one is going after that people arent going after where they are sold either they only go after where they can be enjoyed!

[Snoogans]

age laws on cigs and alcohol? is that what you mean? because last i checked, the laws currently say 18 for cigs and 21 for booze. :unsure:

he was making the point that let the age law stop kids from buying it, not removing it for sale.

And in NJ, you have to be 19 to buy cigarettes

[Snoogans]

Tequiza is made my a major corp, that's the point. Mike's stole the fruit malt market, now maybe the big boys are just trying to chip away at 'em. This type of business was documented in Beer Wars. And if you watch that, you'll realize that AB was nothing to be proud of as far as their practices.

AB isnt AB anymore though. The company that makes stella bought them out. maybe they arent the same kinda animals they were

also, i wouldnt put it past smirnoff to wanna take a rip at mike's too. They are tryin to break in huge to that market, and from what I hear, they are actually better than mikes. I only had one kid of it and it was alright i guess but i couldnt drink that shit, its way too sweet. If im gonna run that much sugar past my teeth im just gonna get some promithazine. PURPLE

[sailor]

yes, meaning they need to stay. no one is going after that people arent going after where they are sold either they only go after where they can be enjoyed!

This is the most confusing thing I've read on here in months.

[Chigworthy]

AB isnt AB anymore though. The company that makes stella bought them out. maybe they arent the same kinda animals they were

also, i wouldnt put it past smirnoff to wanna take a rip at mike's too. They are tryin to break in huge to that market, and from what I hear, they are actually better than mikes. I only had one kid of it and it was alright i guess but i couldnt drink that shit, its way too sweet. If im gonna run that much sugar past my teeth im just gonna get some promithazine. PURPLE

My point about AB is that before they were purchased by Unibroue (I think), they were a pretty despicable company with their predatory political and marketing practices. And as far as I can tell, they are still using the same practices (three-tier distribution system) because all I see at the fucking store is ten miles of AB products and a separate fridge on a different aisle for local and micro beer.

The most telling part of Beer Wars was when Sam Calagione showed his subpoena for the lawsuit AB was bringing against him because the name "Punkin' Ale" was not descriptive enough. That and the part where they made up the imaginary scourge of "Neo-Prohibitionists" to scare people into preserving the three-tier system.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

If anything should be banned

http://startupfiance.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/20081020_zima.jpg

[WRESTLINGFAN]

The alcohol market has become conglomerated. I think the biggest one is Diageo which includes Smirnoff, Guinness, Cuervo and Baileys

Even the Beer companies have merged with Molson/Coors and SAB Miller. AB was purchased by InBev

[Snoogans]

My point about AB is that before they were purchased by Unibroue (I think), they were a pretty despicable company with their predatory political and marketing practices. And as far as I can tell, they are still using the same practices (three-tier distribution system) because all I see at the fucking store is ten miles of AB products and a separate fridge on a different aisle for local and micro beer.

The most telling part of Beer Wars was when Sam Calagione showed his subpoena for the lawsuit AB was bringing against him because the name "Punkin' Ale" was not descriptive enough. That and the part where they made up the imaginary scourge of "Neo-Prohibitionists" to scare people into preserving the three-tier system.

Inbev I believe was who bought them. I dont know about their practices. I dont wanna just assume they arent jerkoffs cause most big business are. I just know I like Stella

[FatassTitePants]

I am from rural PA and have no idea what a bodega is. Is it like when the Amish sell fruit on the side of the road?

[Snoogans]

I am from rural PA and have no idea what a bodega is. Is it like when the Amish sell fruit on the side of the road?

its kinda like a convienience store that stopped restocking shelves 19 months ago

[sailor]

If anything should be banned

http://startupfiance.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/20081020_zima.jpg

3 years ago?

[StanUpshaw]

Inbev I believe was who bought them. I dont know about their practices. I dont wanna just assume they arent jerkoffs cause most big business are. I just know I like Stella

http://i.imgur.com/mjKjK.jpg

preach

[SonOfSmeagol]

Look at the latest issue of The NewYorker to see the real "left's" opinion on the current administration on wiretapping- not msncb. But that will require reading.

my god, man, I stopped caring halfway thru the first para. NYer has good cartoons tho, sometimes.

[Devo37]

I dont care where they sell cigarettes or alcohol. But there needs to be age laws on both and I have no problem with taxing the hell out of both and restricted them to where they can be smoked or drank!

...and next a a sugar tax, and a starch tax, and a salt tax, and a red-meat tax, and an any-meat tax, and a you-didn't-eat-your-vegetables tax, and punitive taxes on everything that Nanny says is bad for us. "Eat your nutritional gruel and stare blankly at the floor, peasant."

taxing items until only the well to-do can afford them. hmmm... isn't that the sort of thing that revolutions get fought over??

[Snoogans]

...and next a a sugar tax, and a starch tax, and a salt tax, and a red-meat tax, and an any-meat tax, and a you-didn't-eat-your-vegetables tax, and punitive taxes on everything that Nanny says is bad for us. "Eat your nutritional gruel and stare blankly at the floor, peasant."

taxing items until only the well to-do can afford them. hmmm... isn't that the sort of thing that revolutions get fought over??



uhhh, if you meant our revolution, then no. it was being taxed at all without having votes

[Devo37]

uhhh, if you meant our revolution, then no. it was being taxed at all without having votes

no, wasn't thinking of the american revolution, but after a quick google search, didn't find what i was thinking of (governments taxing and privatizing natural resources until the average joe could no longer afford basic resources).

at any rate, anyone who thinks, "i don't _____, so i don't care" better keep watch over their shoulder, because their _____ will be on the list before they know it.

[Snoogans]

no, wasn't thinking of the american revolution, but after a quick google search, didn't find what i was thinking of (governments taxing and privatizing natural resources until the average joe could no longer afford basic resources).

at any rate, anyone who thinks, "i don't _____, so i don't care" better keep watch over their shoulder, because their _____ will be on the list before they know it.




i agree. i was just pointing out that usually revolutions come from more than that.

[sailor]

i agree. i was just pointing out that usually revolutions come from more than that.

a large factor in the arab revolutions this year was high food prices/food inflation. granted i don't think that was tax based, but the end result is the same.

[underdog]

none of this makes sense. One, they are marketed to women, for the most part, not really kids. they dont use any dickhead cartoons or anything like cigarettes used to do.

And if they are sold alongside beer at stores the kids already go to, why are we tryin to ban it from OTHER stores? Im pretty sure there arent alot of kids wandering into bodegas

Have you seen the Mike's commercials? They're not marketed to women.

You're kidding there aren't kids in bodegas, right?

From what I've seen, they just hang out in large groups outside of them.

AB isnt AB anymore though. The company that makes stella bought them out. maybe they arent the same kinda animals they were

also, i wouldnt put it past smirnoff to wanna take a rip at mike's too. They are tryin to break in huge to that market, and from what I hear, they are actually better than mikes. I only had one kid of it and it was alright i guess but i couldnt drink that shit, its way too sweet. If im gonna run that much sugar past my teeth im just gonna get some promithazine. PURPLE

My point about AB is that before they were purchased by Unibroue (I think), they were a pretty despicable company with their predatory political and marketing practices. And as far as I can tell, they are still using the same practices (three-tier distribution system) because all I see at the fucking store is ten miles of AB products and a separate fridge on a different aisle for local and micro beer.

The most telling part of Beer Wars was when Sam Calagione showed his subpoena for the lawsuit AB was bringing against him because the name "Punkin' Ale" was not descriptive enough. That and the part where they made up the imaginary scourge of "Neo-Prohibitionists" to scare people into preserving the three-tier system.

Inbev I believe was who bought them. I dont know about their practices. I dont wanna just assume they arent jerkoffs cause most big business are. I just know I like Stella

Yeah, it was inbev.

Unibroue is a Canadian brewer. Makes some of the best beer in the world, too.

[sailor]

From what I've seen, they just hang out in large groups outside of them.

Sure, 'cause they can get cigs, soda and snacks there.

[El Mudo]

Mosque yes. Booze, transfats cigs and salt no

*sigh*

First of all, it wasn't a "mosque". It was a community centre. And it was nowhere near Ground Zero.

Secondly, there's nothing in there that says they want to "ban" those types of liquor beverages. They simply want to restrict them to liquor stores.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

*sigh*

First of all, it wasn't a "mosque". It was a community centre. And it was nowhere near Ground Zero.

Secondly, there's nothing in there that says they want to "ban" those types of liquor beverages. They simply want to restrict them to liquor stores.

It has a mosque in it.


In case you are interested, I dont think the mosque should be blocked. However Bloomy doesn't want a Walmart built on the West side by the river.

Its still a ban. Why could they sell beer but not Mikes. Its basically flavored malt liquor

[underdog]

It has a mosque in it.


In case you are interested, I dont think the mosque should be blocked. However Bloomy doesn't want a Walmart built on the West side by the river.

Its still a ban. Why could they sell beer but not Mikes. Its basically flavored malt liquor

They better not build a walmart on the west side. NIMBY.

[Snoogans]

Have you seen the Mike's commercials? They're not marketed to women.



Actually thats the point. they started tryin to make those commercials cause the only people who bought it was women. Mike has those few commercials but I still dont see any guys buying it. And Smirnoff is marketed towards women. This isnt only about mike's, its about all those fag malt things. And majority of them are marketed to women.

[sailor]

They better not build a walmart on the west side. NIMBY.

You decided on a place to live?

[Snoogans]

They better not build a walmart on the west side. NIMBY.

i thought you were moving to brooklyn

[TripleSkeet]

i totally agree with this ban! in fact, i think we should ban all businesses from operating in nyc.

if you can't sell anything, kids can't get their stupid little hands on it, right nanny?

:furious: :wallbash: :annoyed: :thumbdown:

p.s. first they came for the cigarettes, and you did nothing, because you don't smoke....



Exactly. People never realized with the whole smoking shit that eventually, they will get to something you like.

[underdog]

You decided on a place to live?

i thought you were moving to brooklyn

Went with a place in Hell's Kitchen. Moved in on Wednesday.

[StanUpshaw]

Exactly. People never realized with the whole smoking shit that eventually, they will get to something you like.

If they tax my PokeMan cards, I'm taking this shit to the streets.

[Dudeman]

If you want to look at a real debate on how to control a drug- crystal meth- watch this documentary:


THE METH EPIDEMIC
An investigation into how and why meth use spiraled out of control and became the fastest-growing drug abuse problem in America
(http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/meth/)

It features the debate over how to regulate OTC pseudoephedrine used to make meth.
(You can skip to 35:00 if you just want to see that debate, but the other stuff is kind of interesting too.)

It also completely makes a mockery of Ron Paul's argument that if we legalize drugs nothing will change- ie. people won't just start using drugs. Looking a real statistics, you can see here that just making it easier or more difficult to obtain the starting materials for meth affected number of arrests, deaths, ER visits due to meth- and those things don't just affect the user, they affect communities, tax payers, employers, families, children, etc.

[hanso]

But didn't they switch to other stuff to make it? Like alkaline batteries from what I heard. And this other stuff sounds like it would more harmful.

[sailor]

Went with a place in Hell's Kitchen. Moved in on Wednesday.

look at moneybags living in midtown.

[underdog]

look at moneybags living in midtown.

Barely Midtown, and I'm way over on the west side.

[sailor]

Barely Midtown, and I'm way over on the west side.

yeah, and those are long blocks too. plenty of bodegas to enjoy a nice mike's, for the time being.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Barely Midtown, and I'm way over on the west side.

HK has been revitalized up over the past 10-15 yrs it isn't run down like it used to be. There are some nice bars/lounges in that area. Theres a good place on 46th and 12th called Hudson terrace across from the old Soundfactory club. Great rooftop bar , nice view of the hudson and good looking honies

[StanUpshaw]

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/12/business/company-news-denmark-bans-kellogg-s-vitamin-enriched-cereals.html
DENMARK BANS KELLOGG'S VITAMIN-ENRICHED CEREALS

Danish health officials said yesterday that they had banned several vitamin-enriched products of the cereal maker Kellogg, saying they could be harmful if eaten regularly. The 18 products, which include enriched versions of brands already on the Danish market like Corn Flakes, Rice Krispies and Special K, were to be introduced in Denmark soon. Paolo Drotsby, a spokesman at the Danish Veterinary and Food Administration, said that the products could cause liver and kidney damage in children and could harm developing fetuses. Kellogg, based in Battle Creek, Mich., said it was puzzled by the rejection, as many of the products are already being sold in other European countries. ''We're extremely concerned and mystified, as we never have had such problems,'' said John Buckles, managing director for Kellogg in the Nordic region. He said the company would try to resolve the matter.

Sounds like paradise, eh brodude?

[underdog]

HK has been revitalized up over the past 10-15 yrs it isn't run down like it used to be. There are some nice bars/lounges in that area. Theres a good place on 46th and 12th called Hudson terrace across from the old Soundfactory club. Great rooftop bar , nice view of the hudson and good looking honies

9th Ave is ridiculous.

I have no reason to leave the area around my apartment. It's awesome.

[Snoogans]

9th Ave is ridiculous.

I have no reason to leave the area around my apartment. It's awesome.

we gotta get up for a beer sometime fool

[deliciousV]

I'm so glad I live down here in hayseed land where you can still smoke in a bar and outdoors. You big city folks are so enlightened.

[underdog]

we gotta get up for a beer sometime fool

Sounds good. I'm always up for drinking.

[Syd]

...and next a a sugar tax, and a starch tax, and a salt tax, and a red-meat tax, and an any-meat tax, and a you-didn't-eat-your-vegetables tax, and punitive taxes on everything that Nanny says is bad for us. "Eat your nutritional gruel and stare blankly at the floor, peasant."

taxing items until only the well to-do can afford them. hmmm... isn't that the sort of thing that revolutions get fought over??



On the upside, if all these things are banned the revolution won't be a bunch of morbidly obese white people ramming cop cars in their rascal scooters.

Fun fact: 1 in 3 Americans are obese. BMIs north of 30, meaning 25% of their body is pure fat. A healthy person has 15-20% body fat and often less.

Culling some of the shit that is turning the population into people who can barely walk up stairs and need Handicap placards for their SUV lest they get winded walking into buy the next weekload of 1500 calories a serving food they shove down their stupid throats.

If the people are unwilling to stop being big rotund fucks who can't even sit in airline seats without spilling over into the next seat it's time to step in. It's pretty clear they can't exist in civilized society without gorging themselves to the point of developing diabetes. It's not nanny state, it's "hey tubby put down the second helping of the 20 lbs of Pizza Hut pasta for $10 you just ordered"

[StanUpshaw]

You should start a site like Stormfront, but against fat people.

Such hate...it's really vile.

[TripleSkeet]

On the upside, if all these things are banned the revolution won't be a bunch of morbidly obese white people ramming cop cars in their rascal scooters.

Fun fact: 1 in 3 Americans are obese. BMIs north of 30, meaning 25% of their body is pure fat. A healthy person has 15-20% body fat and often less.

Culling some of the shit that is turning the population into people who can barely walk up stairs and need Handicap placards for their SUV lest they get winded walking into buy the next weekload of 1500 calories a serving food they shove down their stupid throats.

If the people are unwilling to stop being big rotund fucks who can't even sit in airline seats without spilling over into the next seat it's time to step in. It's pretty clear they can't exist in civilized society without gorging themselves to the point of developing diabetes. It's not nanny state, it's "hey tubby put down the second helping of the 20 lbs of Pizza Hut pasta for $10 you just ordered"

Fucking ridiculous. Land of the free homie. As in, free to be fat if I want to without my government forcing me into shape. Only took 70 years for people to forget what trying make the perfect race can lead to, huh?

[Syd]

Fat isn't a race, homie.

[Dudeman]

Fucking ridiculous. Land of the free homie. As in, free to be fat if I want to without my government forcing me into shape. Only took 70 years for people to forget what trying make the perfect race can lead to, huh?

Its not about forcing them to be a perfect race. It is about trying to be fiscally responsible and control the out of control health care costs from hypertension, hypercholesterolemia, heart disease, kidney disease, diabetes, etc. What's your solution for that issue?

[Syd]

Its not about forcing them to be a perfect race. It is about trying to be fiscally responsible and control the out of control health care costs from hypertension, hypercholesterolemia, heart disease, kidney disease, diabetes, etc. What's your solution for that issue?

Bitch about high taxes while you gorge on twice-fried salted cow lard, the easiest solution to the problem instead of personal responsibility.

[TripleSkeet]

Its not about forcing them to be a perfect race. It is about trying to be fiscally responsible and control the out of control health care costs from hypertension, hypercholesterolemia, heart disease, kidney disease, diabetes, etc. What's your solution for that issue?

Nothing. Leave it the way it is. Maybe look into why these costs are so high. How about regulating the pharmaceutical companies so they can stop raping the public for their medicine? I dont really care, the bottom line is FORCING people to be healthy is wrong. This country was founded on the right to be free. Free to live however healthy OR unhealthy you see fit.

Beside, fixing one problem just leads to another. The last thing I want is people living longer then they already are. I see that as a big problem. Besides the fact that when Im old enough to retire the SS well is going to be dryer then Betty Whites twat, overpopulation is a growing problem not just with the country but with the world. Theres nothing to be gained by forcing people to live longer.

[TripleSkeet]

Fat isn't a race, homie.

Neither is blonde hair and blue eyes, but that was part of what they were aiming for.

[StanUpshaw]

Nothing. Leave it the way it is. Maybe look into why these costs are so high. How about regulating the pharmaceutical companies so they can stop raping the public for their medicine?

And while we're at it...let's stop Ferrari from raping the public for their cars.

[Dudeman]

Nothing. Leave it the way it is. Maybe look into why these costs are so high. How about regulating the pharmaceutical companies so they can stop raping the public for their medicine? I dont really care, the bottom line is FORCING people to be healthy is wrong. This country was founded on the right to be free. Free to live however healthy OR unhealthy you see fit.

Beside, fixing one problem just leads to another. The last thing I want is people living longer then they already are. I see that as a big problem. Besides the fact that when Im old enough to retire the SS well is going to be dryer then Betty Whites twat, overpopulation is a growing problem not just with the country but with the world. Theres nothing to be gained by forcing people to live longer.

This commentary lacks any medical insight.

Simply, it isn't cheaper to have people with unhealthy lifestyles as you imply.

When a person who has chosen to live an unhealthy lifestyle shows up in the ER with a myocardial infarction or in renal failure, the bills for the stents and CABG and dialysis will start pilling up. Should the doctor not treat them?

It ultimately costs YOU (as a tax payer and insurance payer) more money to care for those people than if you have them engaging in preventive medicine (including living a healthier lifestyle) and living longer. They get the hypertension, diabetes, heart disease, kidney disease, etc but medicine has expensive interventions for those aligments; and medicine is often good enough to keep them alive with dialysis, stents, CABG, etc- not too mention the medications (anti-hypertenzive, oral hypoglycemics, statins.)

The 50 yo with diabetes and 3 stents takes up alot more healthcare resources than the 80yo who's live a healthier lifestyle and didn't develop htn, cad, type II DM.

We can certainly talk about dealing with pharm profits- those above what is needed for R&D. But I doubt you libertarians are interested in exploring those government interventions into the free market????

And aren't you libertarians into fiscal responsibility. Still don't hear any solutions for dealing with the exploding healthcare costs? Deny services?

[StanUpshaw]

I thought you progressives were into Keynesian economics? Shouldn't all that stimulus injected into the health care industry make you spontaneously cum all over yourself?

[SatCam]

when i was younger, if people found out you were drinking mike's you'd be laughed out of 7th grade. if it gets banned from bodegas maybe itll become cool

[brettmojo]

Forcing the races to integrate didn't work either. We're no closer now than we were 50 or 60 years ago to having a black mayor in Americ... I mean we're no closer to having a black congressman... No wait I mean we're no closer to having a black president... Hey, wait a second...

[StanUpshaw]

Forcing the races to integrate didn't work either. We're no closer now than we were 50 or 60 years ago to having a black mayor in Americ... I mean we're no closer to having a black congressman... No wait I mean we're no closer to having a black president... Hey, wait a second...

Did you mean to post in this thread?

[Chigworthy]

Did you mean to post in this thread?

Which thread?

[TripleSkeet]

This commentary lacks any medical insight.

Simply, it isn't cheaper to have people with unhealthy lifestyles as you imply.

When a person who has chosen to live an unhealthy lifestyle shows up in the ER with a myocardial infarction or in renal failure, the bills for the stents and CABG and dialysis will start pilling up. Should the doctor not treat them?

It ultimately costs YOU (as a tax payer and insurance payer) more money to care for those people than if you have them engaging in preventive medicine (including living a healthier lifestyle) and living longer. They get the hypertension, diabetes, heart disease, kidney disease, etc but medicine has expensive interventions for those aligments; and medicine is often good enough to keep them alive with dialysis, stents, CABG, etc- not too mention the medications (anti-hypertenzive, oral hypoglycemics, statins.)

The 50 yo with diabetes and 3 stents takes up alot more healthcare resources than the 80yo who's live a healthier lifestyle and didn't develop htn, cad, type II DM.

We can certainly talk about dealing with pharm profits- those above what is needed for R&D. But I doubt you libertarians are interested in exploring those government interventions into the free market????

And aren't you libertarians into fiscal responsibility. Still don't hear any solutions for dealing with the exploding healthcare costs? Deny services?

YOU libertarians??? Is that what I am?

I dont give a fuck if its cheaper to force people to live a healthier lifestyle. I dont care if it costs everyone more in insurance premiums. Thats the fucking price you pay to live in whats supposed to be a FREE country.

So, what? Its only ok for a country to be free as long as it doesnt cost or inconvenience you as a citizen? Go live in China. They have no problem telling their people what to do for what they consider the good of the country.

I dont care if people live unhealthy lifestyles or not. I dont care if it makes insurance go up and the society as a whole has to compensate for it. If thats what has to be done in order for me or anyone else to have the right to eat or drink whatever we want then its worth it. There is no excuse you can come up with that would make me say its a good idea to legislate what we as human beings can or cannot eat and drink. None. To agree with such a fucking premise goes against EVERYTHING this country was founded on.

[TripleSkeet]

And while we're at it...let's stop Ferrari from raping the public for their cars.

People can live without Ferraris, they cant live without medication. If the same drug is sold cheaper in other countries, it can be sold cheaper here too.

[Snacks]

YOU libertarians??? Is that what I am?

I dont give a fuck if its cheaper to force people to live a healthier lifestyle. I dont care if it costs everyone more in insurance premiums. Thats the fucking price you pay to live in whats supposed to be a FREE country.

So, what? Its only ok for a country to be free as long as it doesnt cost or inconvenience you as a citizen? Go live in China. They have no problem telling their people what to do for what they consider the good of the country.

I dont care if people live unhealthy lifestyles or not. I dont care if it makes insurance go up and the society as a whole has to compensate for it. If thats what has to be done in order for me or anyone else to have the right to eat or drink whatever we want then its worth it. There is no excuse you can come up with that would make me say its a good idea to legislate what we as human beings can or cannot eat and drink. None. To agree with such a fucking premise goes against EVERYTHING this country was founded on.

Thats what you dont get. Hes not saying ban it or make it illegal or at least I dont think anyone really thinks this. I think most people think it should all stay legal and allow people to eat, drink or even smoke whatever the fuck they want. But if it is no good for your health then you need to be responsible for that. Society shouldnt have to pay for something that you could have fixed by quiting smoking or eating healthier! So if you want to eat or drink things that will hurt you, fine do it but there should be a higher tax on it to go towards the healthcare that it will cost everyone else when youre fat and need dialysis!

[Snacks]

People can live without Ferraris, they cant live without medication. If the same drug is sold cheaper in other countries, it can be sold cheaper here too.

People can live without a burger and fries too. They can also live without a pack a cigarettes or a beer!

As for the Ferrari example its the perfect example. No one needs to go 150 mph and no one needs a $250k car. But no one should make it illegal to buy 1. What we do is say fine buy that car but now you will pay a higher insurance rate because its more dangerous and a higher luxury tax!

[Dudeman]

YOU libertarians??? Is that what I am?

I dont give a fuck if its cheaper to force people to live a healthier lifestyle. I dont care if it costs everyone more in insurance premiums. Thats the fucking price you pay to live in whats supposed to be a FREE country.

So, what? Its only ok for a country to be free as long as it doesnt cost or inconvenience you as a citizen? Go live in China. They have no problem telling their people what to do for what they consider the good of the country.

I dont care if people live unhealthy lifestyles or not. I dont care if it makes insurance go up and the society as a whole has to compensate for it. If thats what has to be done in order for me or anyone else to have the right to eat or drink whatever we want then its worth it. There is no excuse you can come up with that would make me say its a good idea to legislate what we as human beings can or cannot eat and drink. None. To agree with such a fucking premise goes against EVERYTHING this country was founded on.

So what's your solution to the effects of the exploding healthcare costs (due in large part to health consequences of the metabolic syndrome epidemic) on the deficit and the economy?

[Dudeman]

People can live without Ferraris, they cant live without medication.

They can massively decrease the need for some medications (oral hypoglycemics, anti-hypertensives, statins) by improving their lifestyle choices.

Any doctor worth anything knows that the first line of treatment for the metabolic syndrome is lifestyle changes (improved diet and excercise); medications are second line.

[StanUpshaw]

So what's your solution to the effects of the exploding healthcare costs (due in large part to health consequences of the metabolic syndrome epidemic) on the deficit and the economy?

What needs to be solved? Government spending results in a stronger economy due to Keynesian economic factors. The fatter people get, the more gets spent, the better off we are.

[Snacks]

They can massively decrease the need for some medications (oral hypoglycemics, anti-hypertensives, statins) by improving their lifestyle choices.

Any doctor worth anything knows that the first line of treatment for the metabolic syndrome is lifestyle changes (improved diet and excercise); medications are second line.

Exactly. Nothing aggravates me more then people that are on cholesterol lowering medicines. All it does is lower your # when tested it doesnt stop the rest of your body getting all the shit that cholesterol does. The only way to truly lower your cholesterol is to eat better!

[Dudeman]

What needs to be solved? Government spending results in a stronger economy due to Keynesian economic factors. The fatter people get, the more gets spent, the better off we are.

You've become WF. Thus, there is no reason to engage in a discussion. :surrender: Just know that your slogan based, one size fits all approach to everything doesn't work in the real world.

[StanUpshaw]

You've become WF. Thus, there is no reason to engage in a discussion. :surrender: Just know that your slogan based, one size fits all approach to everything doesn't work in the real world.

Perhaps I've mistaken you with epo or something, but aren't you in favor of governmental stimulus? Explain why this doesn't count.


And what slogan have I ever used? I keep repeating myself only because you never dare to answer my question.

[Dudeman]

Perhaps I've mistaken you with epo or something, but aren't you in favor of governmental stimulus? Explain why this doesn't count.


And what slogan have I ever used? I keep repeating myself only because you never dare to answer my question.

1. Your simplified slogan baised, one size fits all answer to everything is in refrence to your absolute and dogmatic statement above about government regulation of citizens' freedoms.

"To agree with such a fucking premise goes against EVERYTHING this country was founded on."- that sounds simple, absolute and dogmatic to me...

2. Stimulus can be used to turn around a massive recession, as occurred in 2008. It is not meant to be a constant and rising force, like the effect the metabolic syndrome epidemic is having on the economy. Two different things. (But I guess you could say the metabolic syndrome has been a good stimulus for pharm companies- be nice if the rest of the economy, minus oil companies, had those profits.)

3. What question of your's haven't I answered- was it about the stimulus vs. healthcare expenditures? I guess my response is as in #2.

4. That brings me back to my question-

Metabolic syndrome is an epidemic, and it is resulting in medical sequelae that are having a serious negative effect on the economy. The metabolic syndrome is due in large part to poor health care choices by individuals, and the major prevention and treatment for this problem is by improving diet and excercise.

How do you propose decreasing the severe negative effects of the rise in metabolic syndrome on health care expenditures.

[TripleSkeet]

4. That brings me back to my question-

Metabolic syndrome is an epidemic, and it is resulting in medical sequelae that are having a serious negative effect on the economy. The metabolic syndrome is due in large part to poor health care choices by individuals, and the major prevention and treatment for this problem is by improving diet and excercise.

How do you propose decreasing the severe negative effects of the rise in metabolic syndrome on health care expenditures.

The same thing weve done the last 200 hundred years. Treat it as best you can and let those people eventually die. Why does something have to be done? Its not an epidemic, its a lifestyle choice. Personally, Id rather eat whatever the fuck I want and die at 75 then cut things like red meat, alcohol and sugar out of my life and live to be 90.

[TripleSkeet]

Thats what you dont get. Hes not saying ban it or make it illegal or at least I dont think anyone really thinks this. I think most people think it should all stay legal and allow people to eat, drink or even smoke whatever the fuck they want. But if it is no good for your health then you need to be responsible for that. Society shouldnt have to pay for something that you could have fixed by quiting smoking or eating healthier! So if you want to eat or drink things that will hurt you, fine do it but there should be a higher tax on it to go towards the healthcare that it will cost everyone else when youre fat and need dialysis!

You dont get to choose where your money gets spent. Theres plenty of diseases me and my family have never had, but Im sure my insurance company has treated people with them, therefore eventually raising my costs. When it comes to healthcare, society absolutely should all pay its part equally. Even if its for people that are overweight or have health issues because of lifestyle choices.

I havent been in a fucking hospital for over 30 years. Havent had more then a routine doctors visit in all that time. Yet Ive paid health insurance all those years regardless. So if I eventually get diabetes, why the fuck shouldnt I be taken care of? For the last 30 years the money from me has gone to help other people, so when its my time to get something for that fucking money, Im entitled to it.

We already pay crazy taxes on things like cigarettes and alcohol, my point is when the fuck is it enough? Are you seriously telling me that cigarettes arent taxed enough?

If you put a tax on every food and drink that can be potentially unhealthy youll be taxing the fuck out of EVERYTHING.

Heres another quick question. Do you guys really believe that if the governments efforts to force people to live healthier actually work, that your health insurance is somehow going to decrease??? Because if you do youre a fucking moron.

[StanUpshaw]

1. Your simplified slogan baised, one size fits all answer to everything is in refrence to your absolute and dogmatic statement above about government regulation of citizens' freedoms.

"To agree with such a fucking premise goes against EVERYTHING this country was founded on."- that sounds simple, absolute and dogmatic to me...

2. Stimulus can be used to turn around a massive recession, as occurred in 2008. It is not meant to be a constant and rising force, like the effect the metabolic syndrome epidemic is having on the economy. Two different things.

3. What question of your's haven't I answered- was it about the stimulus vs. healthcare expenditures? I guess my response is as in #2.

4. That brings me back to my question-

Metabolic syndrome is an epidemic, and it is resulting in medical sequelae that are having a serious negative effect on the economy. The metabolic syndrome is due in large part to poor health care choices by individuals, and the major prevention and treatment for this problem is by improving diet and excercise.

How do you propose decreasing the severe negative effects of the rise in metabolic syndrome on health care expenditures.

I didn't say that, in fact, but it's more or less what I feel. And it serves well to counter your slogan of "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few." I don't know how having principles can really be avoided, but I'm pretty sure I'm not going to apologize for it.


As far as solving it, lets be clear: YOU claim it's a huge problem. It seems to be your illegal immigration in that way, but instead of hating brown people, you hate the obese. I'm not quite as militant as you, so I'm not willing to forsake, as TS said, EVERYTHING this country was founded on in order to get even with the fatties.

Overall, I think it's incredibly naive to think that health care spending will ever go down. People have an unlimited capacity of want. As long as technology continues progressing, people will continue to demand it. It was antibiotics yesterday, and insulin today. It will be stem cells tomorrow and nanobots the day after that. It's such a misguided notion that whittling away at one problem will actually solve anything. Until we can all be immortal, we're going to be spending money to delay death while maximizing pleasure. Reducing the share of that figure that obesity occupies is fine, but it will just be filled by something else.

[Dudeman]

Heres another quick question. Do you guys really believe that if the governments efforts to force people to live healthier actually work, that your health insurance is somehow going to decrease??? Because if you do youre a fucking moron.



moron...??? Shall we use smoking as an example.

The volume of data arguing who is and who is not a moron, I'm afraid to say, is not in your favor.

Tons of information and statistics on the CDC website. For example:
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5926a1.htm#fig1

Way to much info to post... check out the link. But here are some fun graphs. Something seems to be changing

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/figures/00000143.gif

http://www.nyc.gov/html/doh/images/pr2010/pr050-10-graph1.gif

[Dudeman]

Its not an epidemic, its a lifestyle choice.

100% wrong.

No academic or government organization has ever said anything other than that, by definition, there is a "obesity" epidemic.

You are entitled to your own opinions; you are not entitled to your own facts.

http://www.cdc.gov/chronicdisease/resources/publications/AAG/obesity.htm

The Obesity Epidemic
More than one-third of U.S. adults (over 72 million people) and 17% of U.S. children are obese. During 1980–2008, obesity rates doubled for adults and tripled for children. During the past several decades, obesity rates for all population groups—regardless of age, sex, race, ethnicity, socioeconomic status, education level, or geographic region—have increased markedly. (http://www.cdc.gov/chronicdisease/resources/publications/AAG/obesity.htm)

[TripleSkeet]

moron...??? Shall we use smoking as an example.

The volume of data arguing who is and who is not a moron, I'm afraid to say, is not in your favor.

Tons of information and statistics on the CDC website. For example:
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5926a1.htm#fig1

Way to much info to post... check out the link. But here are some fun graphs. Something seems to be changing

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/figures/00000143.gif

http://www.nyc.gov/html/doh/images/pr2010/pr050-10-graph1.gif

Did you really just show me a chart that says the rate of smoking and deaths related to it have gone down? Am I supposed to be amazed by this miraculous discovery youve shown me??? NO FUCKING SHIT.

Now show me the chart that says these statistics have lowered insurance rates, because thats what I said. If anything youve just proved my point. According to your charts, insurance rates should be going down, but according to earlier posts they are "exploding". Why is that???

[TripleSkeet]

100% wrong.

No academic or government organization has ever said anything other than that, by definition, there is a "obesity" epidemic.

You are entitled to your own opinions; you are not entitled to your own facts.

http://www.cdc.gov/chronicdisease/resources/publications/AAG/obesity.htm

The Obesity Epidemic
More than one-third of U.S. adults (over 72 million people) and 17% of U.S. children are obese. During 1980–2008, obesity rates doubled for adults and tripled for children. During the past several decades, obesity rates for all population groups—regardless of age, sex, race, ethnicity, socioeconomic status, education level, or geographic region—have increased markedly. (http://www.cdc.gov/chronicdisease/resources/publications/AAG/obesity.htm)

Its an epidemic because they are against it. Obesity isnt a fucking disease, its a lifestyle choice. I dont give a fuck what the government defines it as. They also says alcohism is a fucking disease, and I believe thats bullshit also.

Diseases have epidemics, and sorry, but I dont consider a disease to be anything you can control. Just about anyone can lose weight and not be obese if they choose not to. Therefore its a lifestyle CHOICE.

[StanUpshaw]

I wonder which has occurred more...dudeman saying "oral hypoglycemics" or WF saying "anchor babies".

[Snacks]

You dont get to choose where your money gets spent. Theres plenty of diseases me and my family have never had, but Im sure my insurance company has treated people with them, therefore eventually raising my costs. When it comes to healthcare, society absolutely should all pay its part equally. Even if its for people that are overweight or have health issues because of lifestyle choices.

I havent been in a fucking hospital for over 30 years. Havent had more then a routine doctors visit in all that time. Yet Ive paid health insurance all those years regardless. So if I eventually get diabetes, why the fuck shouldnt I be taken care of? For the last 30 years the money from me has gone to help other people, so when its my time to get something for that fucking money, Im entitled to it.

We already pay crazy taxes on things like cigarettes and alcohol, my point is when the fuck is it enough? Are you seriously telling me that cigarettes arent taxed enough?

If you put a tax on every food and drink that can be potentially unhealthy youll be taxing the fuck out of EVERYTHING.

Heres another quick question. Do you guys really believe that if the governments efforts to force people to live healthier actually work, that your health insurance is somehow going to decrease??? Because if you do youre a fucking moron.

I highly doubt you havent used your insurance in 30 years. You have kids? So you as an individual in your family might not be using it but Im sure your wife and kids have used more then what you have paid! Between the birth of a child and all the Drs appoints that kids have and shots and all the rushing to the drs office for a fever that is nothing etc. Add on top of that all that mandatory women check ups after birth and during pregnancies!

[Dudeman]

I wonder which has occurred more...dudeman saying "oral hypoglycemics" or WF saying "anchor babies".

Difference is that I don't go out of my way to big up the topic and start posts about it. When someone argues against the need or effectiveness of some (not all) government, I'm just going to bring up the topic.

[Snacks]

Did you really just show me a chart that says the rate of smoking and deaths related to it have gone down? Am I supposed to be amazed by this miraculous discovery youve shown me??? NO FUCKING SHIT.

Now show me the chart that says these statistics have lowered insurance rates, because thats what I said. If anything youve just proved my point. According to your charts, insurance rates should be going down, but according to earlier posts they are "exploding". Why is that???

actually no he proved his point. You said the govt telling you what to do doesnt solve shit. Well those charts prove that the govt taxing the shit out of smoking has forced people to stop which they probably wouldnt if it was cheap like it used to be. Now b/c the govt forced you to take notice many people have quit now lowering the lung cancer deaths. It actually proves that making people pay more for things that are harmful will help stop people from hurting themselves. Do you really think people will stop something because a dr says so? no they will stop when they cant afford it or when its not worth the price!

[Dudeman]

actually no he proved his point. You said the govt telling you what to do doesnt solve shit. Well those charts prove that the govt taxing the shit out of smoking has forced people to stop which they probably wouldnt if it was cheap like it used to be. Now b/c the govt forced you to take notice many people have quit now lowering the lung cancer deaths. It actually proves that making people pay more for things that are harmful will help stop people from hurting themselves. Do you really think people will stop something because a dr says so? no they will stop when they cant afford it or when its not worth the price!

thanks. i wasn't going to reply when someone argues against something like that... like talking to someone who argues against evolution.

[TripleSkeet]

actually no he proved his point. You said the govt telling you what to do doesnt solve shit. Well those charts prove that the govt taxing the shit out of smoking has forced people to stop which they probably wouldnt if it was cheap like it used to be. Now b/c the govt forced you to take notice many people have quit now lowering the lung cancer deaths. It actually proves that making people pay more for things that are harmful will help stop people from hurting themselves. Do you really think people will stop something because a dr says so? no they will stop when they cant afford it or when its not worth the price!

When was that the argument? No shit if you make something unaffordable people will stop using it. When did I ever say that wouldnt work?

I had 2 points...

A. That even if it works, it wont lower health insurance rates, which so far, looks like Im right.

B. Even if it works the government has no right to tell people they should take care of themselves and live longer. Where the fuck is it written that that is the governments job??? As an American I have the fucking right to hurt myself if I want to and its nobodies business but my own. I dont care if a doctor says so, people shouldnt HAVE to stop anything. They should stop if they WANT to.

Thats the basic DEFINITION of free country. "For your own good" has been the reason given from every nation that has limited the freedom of its people.

[TripleSkeet]

I highly doubt you havent used your insurance in 30 years. You have kids? So you as an individual in your family might not be using it but Im sure your wife and kids have used more then what you have paid! Between the birth of a child and all the Drs appoints that kids have and shots and all the rushing to the drs office for a fever that is nothing etc. Add on top of that all that mandatory women check ups after birth and during pregnancies!

I havent been in the hospital 30 years or used my insurance for more then a normal doctors visit in that time. Yes my wife used insurance when she was pregnant with my kids, but she worked and paid into that her whole life also before meeting me and when I had kids I started paying MORE. So no, that money paid out all those years was NOT used. You act like my rates havent gone up since Ive had kids or that my wife never paid for health insurance.

[Dudeman]

Even if it works the government has no right to tell people they should take care of themselves and live longer. Where the fuck is it written that that is the governments job???

Nevermind the desire to have people be healthier, what about the need to not spend so much on obesity related diseases?

Or if you don't care about or believe the economic issues, how about what our military says about the problem:


Too Fat to Fight? Military Recruitment Grapples With Obesity Epidemic

According to the study, more than 140,000 individuals failed their military entrance physicals between 1995 and 2008 because of weight problems -- a 70 percent increase over that same period.

And with the military annually discharging more than 1,200 first-time enlistees before their contract expirations because of weight problems, according to the report, obesity imposes a hefty $60 million price tag for the military to recruit and train replacements.
(http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/military-recruitment-grapples-obesity-epidemic/story?id=11431486)

[sailor]

smokers are less of a drain on the healthcare system. they die quick and young. ask any economist.

also, it's a myth that cholesterol is bad. check out the fun little documentary fat head.

[TripleSkeet]

Nevermind the desire to have people be healthier, what about the need to not spend so much on obesity related diseases?

Or if you don't care about or believe the economic issues, how about what our military says about the problem:


Too Fat to Fight? Military Recruitment Grapples With Obesity Epidemic

According to the study, more than 140,000 individuals failed their military entrance physicals between 1995 and 2008 because of weight problems -- a 70 percent increase over that same period.

And with the military annually discharging more than 1,200 first-time enlistees before their contract expirations because of weight problems, according to the report, obesity imposes a hefty $60 million price tag for the military to recruit and train replacements.
(http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/military-recruitment-grapples-obesity-epidemic/story?id=11431486)

Theres nothing you can post thats going to make me think its a good idea for the government to FORCE me into shape.

Wasnt that like the whole base idea behind the science fiction stories of robots and computers taking over the world? That man needed to be protected from himself? Yea, Id rather be fat and free, thanks.

[Crispy123]

check out the fun little documentary fat head.

watch the personal attacks buddy.

[Syd]

There is no excuse you can come up with that would make me say its a good idea to legislate what we as human beings can or cannot eat and drink. None. To agree with such a fucking premise goes against EVERYTHING this country was founded on.

What exactly was the country founded on? And which foundation are you referring to, the Confederation or the Republic? Are you including when the government was essentially reformed in the Reconstruction Era? There have been rather large changes to what the country was that we need to clear up so we know what iteration of "the founding of America" we're talking about. Plus, are we considering America to be a Christian nation? While Christian dietary laws aren't as far-ranging as other religions, they still exist.

Fact is, you're buying far too much into the romanticized notion of what the Founding Fathers were about. They were hypocrites, liars and thieves. The only thing noble they ever did was die. For all the talk of egalitarianism and freedom, that sure as fuck never applied to slaves or anyone involved in the Shay's Rebellion. The founding fathers were nothing more than the predecessors to Capital.

Get fucked unless you're rich and white, that's what the country was founded on. The one rule that holds true regardless of time period, political party or anything else you can throw at it.

[StanUpshaw]

http://i.imgur.com/vApNw.jpg

[WRESTLINGFAN]

What exactly was the country founded on? And which foundation are you referring to, the Confederation or the Republic? Are you including when the government was essentially reformed in the Reconstruction Era? There have been rather large changes to what the country was that we need to clear up so we know what iteration of "the founding of America" we're talking about. Plus, are we considering America to be a Christian nation? While Christian dietary laws aren't as far-ranging as other religions, they still exist.

Fact is, you're buying far too much into the romanticized notion of what the Founding Fathers were about. They were hypocrites, liars and thieves. The only thing noble they ever did was die. For all the talk of egalitarianism and freedom, that sure as fuck never applied to slaves or anyone involved in the Shay's Rebellion. The founding fathers were nothing more than the predecessors to Capital.

Get fucked unless you're rich and white, that's what the country was founded on. The one rule that holds true regardless of time period, political party or anything else you can throw at it.



Yup like they are really fucked, They are oppressed by the man

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j278/scorpiad/oprah-winfrey.jpg


http://www.blackenterprise.com/files/2010/04/obama-official-photo1.jpeg

http://www.blackenterprise.com/files/2011/03/Russell-Simmons.jpg

[A.J.]

smokers are less of a drain on the healthcare system. they die quick and young. ask any economist.

<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/FVhrIfaPKxw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Syd]

Yup like they are really fucked, They are oppressed by the man



Whew three examples, did you go get some vato from out front of the Home Depot to do the heavy lifting?

Back in reality, mysteriously the black unemployment rate is roughly double that of the white rate

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t02.htm

Systemic oppression, or lazy browns?

What about Indian reservations? More lazy browns, or systemic oppression?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Whew three examples, did you go get some vato from out front of the Home Depot to do the heavy lifting?

Back in reality, mysteriously the black unemployment rate is roughly double that of the white rate

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t02.htm

Systemic oppression, or lazy browns?

What about Indian reservations? More lazy browns, or systemic oppression?

There are many factors here are some

Government dependence only continues people to be lazy. The far left wants people to be unproductive so they can promise them more entitlements and in return they get reelected.


Want to talk about black unemployment?

http://www.vanderbilt.edu/magazines/vanderbilt-magazine/2007/11/illegal_immigration_hurts_african_americans/


Indians who get off the dependancy of the government thrive while the ones on the reservations are prone to economic depression, health issues etc.



<iframe width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Y1Ey_g4wOnw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Now its fireworks.

While its not a complete ban, these busybodies will stop at nothing to make everyone else miserable just like them


http://www.fox5sandiego.com/news/rss/kswb-fireworks-lawsuit-ruling-may-doom-la-jolla-cove-fireworks-20110527,0,5183651.story?track=rss

[Dude!]

Get fucked unless you're rich and white, that's what the country was founded on. The one rule that holds true regardless of time period, political party or anything else you can throw at it.

the 'poor and black'
have had their revenge
on the 'rich and white'

by soaking the country dry
via transfer payments

by destroying once great cities

by unleashing a 50-year crime spree
unparalleled in history

and it is always someone else's fault

[sailor]

What's that got to do with ny? They've been illegal here forever.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

What's that got to do with ny? They've been illegal here forever.

Not all fireworks are. Macy's still has the 4th of july display. There could be a ruling one day saying that debris from firworks can be harmful to the east river

[WRESTLINGFAN]

the 'poor and black'
have had their revenge
on the 'rich and white'

by soaking the country dry
via transfer payments

by destroying once great cities

by unleashing a 50-year crime spree
unparalleled in history

and it is always someone else's fault

Reparations Maaaaaaaaaaaaaan !!!!!!!!

[Syd]

Government dependence only continues people to be lazy. The far left wants people to be unproductive so they can promise them more entitlements and in return they get reelected.

So...why isn't that an issue in Europe with countries seeing vastly greater standards of living yet having quite a few entitlement programs? Why aren't people in France unproductive, despite working several weeks less than American counterparts?

Plus, even with those entitlements people that are closer to you in political mindset -- Geert Wilders and the PVV/Party for Freedom aren't having any issues being elected despite "the far left keeping people unproductive so they can be re-elected"

Blame the government all you want, but, blacks have and always will be an underclass so long as white men remain in power.

[Syd]

the 'poor and black'
have had their revenge
on the 'rich and white'

by soaking the country dry
via transfer payments

by destroying once great cities

by unleashing a 50-year crime spree
unparalleled in history

and it is always someone else's fault

hey, it's like every

other

person

in

history

t
h
at has

a roug
h

time

and

bl
a
m
e
s

it on

the

jews

just reme
m
ber

to tell

them

they will

be allo

wed

out

of

t
he

ghettos

and

they

will lo
ve
you, napoleondude!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

So...why isn't that an issue in Europe with countries seeing vastly greater standards of living yet having quite a few entitlement programs? Why aren't people in France unproductive, despite working several weeks less than American counterparts?

Plus, even with those entitlements people that are closer to you in political mindset -- Geert Wilders and the PVV/Party for Freedom aren't having any issues being elected despite "the far left keeping people unproductive so they can be re-elected"

Blame the government all you want, but, blacks have and always will be an underclass so long as white men remain in power.

Western europe is drowning in a sea of red ink due to its massive nanny state social democracy model. Add in millions of immigrants from Africa the mid east and Pakistan who are on the government dole and you have a crisis whats going on today.


Blacks are an underclass due to these policies of dependancy, The great society has done nothing but harm to the structure of the black family, replacing fathers with a check

[Dudeman]

Blacks are an underclass due to these policies of dependancy, The great society has done nothing but harm to the structure of the black family, replacing fathers with a check

They were doing so well before the great society?

The great society's effect on black family is nothing compared to the effects of slavery (which was designed in part to break up families) followed by economic, racial, educational, and political injustices at the end of slavery and persisting at high levels until the 60's and the great society, and continuing in an institutional manner (and still in some places in an overt manner) to the present day.

Sociology 101... a child most often grows up to replicate the family structure that they grew up with. It is a negative cycle in many parts of Aferican American society.

I think we both agree that we want that cycle to end. But lets not pretend that the great society started that cycle. If it isn't the absolute best way to end it, I could agree at some level with that. But you again offer no other solution besides "personal responsibility"- which Sociology 101 demonstrate without a doubt doesn't reverse centuries of a trend.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

They were doing so well before the great society?

The great society's effect on black family is nothing compared to the effects of slavery (which was designed in part to break up families) followed by economic, racial, educational, and political injustices at the end of slavery and persisting at high levels until the 60's and the great society, and continuing in an institutional manner (and still in some places in an overt manner) to the present day.

Sociology 101... a child most often grows up to replicate the family structure that they grew up with. It is a negative cycle in many parts of Aferican American society.

I think we both agree that we want that cycle to end. But lets not pretend that the great society started that cycle. If it isn't the absolute best way to end it, I could agree at some level with that. But you again offer no other solution besides "personal responsibility"- which Sociology 101 demonstrate without a doubt doesn't reverse centuries of a trend.

Have they done well since?


http://nodnc.com/modules.php?name=news&file=article&sid=461

"Sociologist Andrew Billingsley has traced the historical lifeline of the Black family. In 1890 the number of intact Black families with fathers and mothers at home was 80%. Over the next seven decades through 1960, that figure held remarkably constant"


A solution isnt having poverty pimps like Sharpton and Jackson who make millions on the line of victimhood. Having wehite policitians visiting the churches during election season and not coming back until the next election cycle has not helped their cause either.


Maybe they should listen to Mr Cosby instead of the so called de facto leaders like Jesse and Al


http://www.nowpublic.com/culture/bill-cosby-stop-blaming-whitey

[Dudeman]

Have they done well since?


http://nodnc.com/modules.php?name=news&file=article&sid=461

"Sociologist Andrew Billingsley has traced the historical lifeline of the Black family. In 1890 the number of intact Black families with fathers and mothers at home was 80%. Over the next seven decades through 1960, that figure held remarkably constant"


A solution isnt having poverty pimps like Sharpton and Jackson who make millions on the line of victimhood. Having wehite policitians visiting the churches during election season and not coming back until the next election cycle has not helped their cause either.


Maybe they should listen to Mr Cosby instead of the so called de facto leaders like Jesse and Al


http://www.nowpublic.com/culture/bill-cosby-stop-blaming-whitey

So you're saying it was better in the 1880's?

Either way, don't argue with me. Argue with the guy who posted this. He seems to think the 180 opposite of you.. that things are getting better.


Yup like they are really fucked, They are oppressed by the man

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j278/scorpiad/oprah-winfrey.jpg


http://www.blackenterprise.com/files/2010/04/obama-official-photo1.jpeg

http://www.blackenterprise.com/files/2011/03/Russell-Simmons.jpg

[TripleSkeet]

What exactly was the country founded on? And which foundation are you referring to, the Confederation or the Republic? Are you including when the government was essentially reformed in the Reconstruction Era? There have been rather large changes to what the country was that we need to clear up so we know what iteration of "the founding of America" we're talking about. Plus, are we considering America to be a Christian nation? While Christian dietary laws aren't as far-ranging as other religions, they still exist.

Fact is, you're buying far too much into the romanticized notion of what the Founding Fathers were about. They were hypocrites, liars and thieves. The only thing noble they ever did was die. For all the talk of egalitarianism and freedom, that sure as fuck never applied to slaves or anyone involved in the Shay's Rebellion. The founding fathers were nothing more than the predecessors to Capital.

Get fucked unless you're rich and white, that's what the country was founded on. The one rule that holds true regardless of time period, political party or anything else you can throw at it.

The freedom to live our lives as we see fit. As long as our lifestyle doesnt hurt other people. I think its worked pretty well too.

The problem is, because insurance companies dont like to actually have to give back the money they are paid for doing nothing, they raise peoples costs, and blame it on unhealthy lifestyle choices. Basically causing people to cry that their higher premiums are an example of them being "hurt" by others lifestyle choices.

Ridiculous bullshit.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

So you're saying it was better in the 1880's?

Either way, don't argue with me. Argue with the guy who posted this. He seems to think the 180 opposite of you.. that things are getting better.

People like Condi Rice, Oprah Clarence THomas grew up in the segregated south and worked hard to achieve their status.

I never said it was easier 120 years ago, but in the 45 years as a whole has the great society done much good for the blacks ?

[Dudeman]

People like Condi Rice, Oprah Clarence THomas grew up in the segregated south and worked hard to achieve their status.


You republican Neocons always stick together.

"Go into any inner city neighborhood, and folks will tell you that government alone can’t teach our kids to learn — they know that parents have to teach, that children can’t achieve unless we raise their expectations and turn off the television sets and eradicate the slander that says a black youth with a book is acting white."- our president, or as you know him, Barry Hussein

[sailor]

You republican Neocons always stick together.

"Go into any inner city neighborhood, and folks will tell you that government alone can’t teach our kids to learn — they know that parents have to teach, that children can’t achieve unless we raise their expectations and turn off the television sets and eradicate the slander that says a black youth with a book is acting white."- our president, or as you know him, Barry Hussein

I used to get a kick out of my friends accusing one another of talking white if they used proper grammar.

[Misteriosa]

I used to get a kick out of my friends accusing one another of talking white if they used proper grammar.

haha i used to get that all the time :o

[WRESTLINGFAN]

You republican Neocons always stick together.

"Go into any inner city neighborhood, and folks will tell you that government alone can’t teach our kids to learn — they know that parents have to teach, that children can’t achieve unless we raise their expectations and turn off the television sets and eradicate the slander that says a black youth with a book is acting white."- our president, or as you know him, Barry Hussein

I use rice as an example and I am labeled a NEO-CON :lol:. Typical bumper sticker reaction from you. I guess you idnt see the many postings on my support of Ron and Rand Paul, opposition to the patriot act, nation building, decriminilization of marijuana etc.

You mention parents but when most come from families that arent intact due to the failures of the great society what good is being done ?

I am so upset that you didnt throw in Fox news

[Zorro]

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/Anti-Obesity-Housing-Unveiled-in-Bronx-123011538.html


They don't mention the Crown Fried Chicken to te left and Chinese take ot on the right.

[Misteriosa]

that new building is *right* next to my job. it looks really really nice. they already have the excersice equipment in place. i was wondering who would be able to move there. it would be a great place to live if the neighborhood wasnt such shit. and for those of you wondering: there is a mcdonalds, a chinese food place, a pizza shop, a spanish food restaurant, a spanish fried food truck which opertes in the spring and summer, and a chicken spot across the street. there are virtually NO healthy food options besides a salad in the pizza shop and maybe a sandwich from the bodega. then again, thats how it is for most of the bronx...

good luck losing that weight with the smell of big macs wafting thru the air as you run that treadmill :o

[Contra]

this thread is about mike's hard lemonade...right?


Holy derailment Batman!

[sailor]

that new building is *right* next to my job. it looks really really nice. they already have the excersice equipment in place. i was wondering who would be able to move there. it would be a great place to live if the neighborhood wasnt such shit. and for those of you wondering: there is a mcdonalds, a chinese food place, a pizza shop, a spanish food restaurant, a spanish fried food truck which opertes in the spring and summer, and a chicken spot across the street. there are virtually NO healthy food options besides a salad in the pizza shop and maybe a sandwich from the bodega. then again, thats how it is for most of the bronx...

good luck losing that weight with the smell of big macs wafting thru the air as you run that treadmill :o

there's always home cooking. most fast food won't be good for you no matter where you go.

when did hunt's point become longwood? kinda funny with all the prostitution that took (takes?) place there.

[hanso]

this thread is about mike's hard lemonade...right?


Holy derailment Batman!

Not grape soda?

[Jujubees2]

Not grape soda?

I like grape Nehi

http://www.youthink.com/quiz_images/quiz1077outcome9.jpg

[sailor]

I like grape Nehi

http://www.youthink.com/quiz_images/quiz1077outcome9.jpg

That's racist!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

No salty foods at NYC Run shelters
Only the government knows how to feed the poor. You do gooders and your charity aren't in compliance
Sorry homeless and needy, Bloomberg would rather see you starve


http://news.yahoo.com/nyc-ban-unhealthy-food-homeless-shelters-irks-volunteers-044640156.html

[keithy_19]

this thread is about mike's hard lemonade...right?


Holy derailment Batman!

I hate this forum.

[Syd]

No salty foods at NYC Run shelters
Only the government knows how to feed the poor. You do gooders and your charity aren't in compliance
Sorry homeless and needy, Bloomberg would rather see you starve


http://news.yahoo.com/nyc-ban-unhealthy-food-homeless-shelters-irks-volunteers-044640156.html

Feeding people unhealthy garbage that the rest of the America shovels into their face isn't good for them. If you're homeless, you're not exactly eating too well to begin with and a bacon fried butter stick isn't going to be very good for them.

[A.J.]

bacon fried butter stick

Fucking starving.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Feeding people unhealthy garbage that the rest of the America shovels into their face isn't good for them. If you're homeless, you're not exactly eating too well to begin with and a bacon fried butter stick isn't going to be very good for them.

Regulating charity. You really worship the state.


Fuck the homeless, The enemy is salt

[Jujubees2]

Feeding people unhealthy garbage that the rest of the America shovels into their face isn't good for them. If you're homeless, you're not exactly eating too well to begin with and a bacon fried butter stick isn't going to be very good for them.

And WF will be the first to complain when a homeless person has to be hospitalized (on the taxpayer's dime) due to an unhealthy diet.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

And WF will be the first to complain when a homeless person has to be hospitalized (on the taxpayer's dime) due to an unhealthy diet.


Hence a need for more charity and less government in regards for healthcare for the poor

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Like the hungry are really going to say. I want Organic vegetables from Whole Foods

[StanUpshaw]

Like the hungry are really going to say. I want Organic vegetables from Whole Foods

They rejected all those perfectly good muffin stumps I tried to donate.

[Syd]

Hence a need for more charity and less government in regards for healthcare for the poor

There's not enough charity to help out, and most charity usually requires some sort of Jesusing up

[Crispy123]

They rejected all those perfectly good muffin stumps I tried to donate.

Weird, I saw something just like this on an episode of Everybody Loves Raymond. I think it was the mom that opened a store just to sell muffin tops.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I thought this was out of the onion. Those enlightened ones in NYC never cease to amaze


http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2012/03/26/war-on-words-nyc-dept-of-education-wants-50-forbidden-words-removed-from-standardized-tests/

[Chigworthy]

Weird, I saw something just like this on an episode of Everybody Loves Raymond. I think it was the mom that opened a store just to sell muffin tops.

That is weird. What are the odds?

[Jujubees2]

True cost of U.S. obesity: $190 billion a year in excess medical spending (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/47211549/ns/health-diet_and_nutrition/)

The books on obesity remain open. The latest entry: An obese man is 64 percent less likely to be arrested for a crime than a healthy man.

I think they commit as much crime as skinner guys they just can't run as fast so they get caught easier.

[StanUpshaw]

The books on obesity remain open. The latest entry: An obese man is 64 percent less likely to be arrested for a crime than a healthy man.

I think they commit as much crime as skinner guys they just can't run as fast so they get caught easier.

This makes so little sense, I'm convinced you're hanso's gimmick account.

[A.J.]

True cost of U.S. obesity: $190 billion a year in excess medical spending (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/47211549/ns/health-diet_and_nutrition/)

The books on obesity remain open. The latest entry: An obese man is 64 percent less likely to be arrested for a crime than a healthy man.

I think they commit as much crime as skinner guys they just can't run as fast so they get caught easier.

But smokers are still much, much worse.

[Crispy123]

The books on obesity remain open. The latest entry: An obese man is 64 percent less likely to be arrested for a crime than a healthy man.

I think they commit as much crime as skinner guys they just can't run as fast so they get caught easier.

Skinner

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/9B-r3ASxdck" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[sailor]

But smokers are still much, much worse.

I've read economists say smokers aren't a net drain either as they die younger and don't draw resources from the state for 30 years. Yes, they get cancer, but everyone gets something in their old age.

[A.J.]

I've read economists say smokers aren't a net drain either as they die younger and don't draw resources from the state for 30 years. Yes, they get cancer, but everyone gets something in their old age.

THANK you.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

The taxes I pay on my cigars funds the SCHIP for low income children.


You're welcome

[Syd]

I've read economists say smokers aren't a net drain either as they die younger and don't draw resources from the state for 30 years. Yes, they get cancer, but everyone gets something in their old age.

They still go to the hospital and suck up valuable time. 50% of all your lifetime medical costs happen in the final few years of your life.

[sailor]

They still go to the hospital and suck up valuable time. 50% of all your lifetime medical costs happen in the final few years of your life.

Yes, but let's not act like only smokers have medical bills, which is the whole justification behind sin taxes.

[Snacks]

Smokers don't hurt only themselves they also hurt others through 2nd hand smoke.

[Syd]

Yes, but let's not act like only smokers have medical bills, which is the whole justification behind sin taxes.

True, but they disproportionately cause harm to society relative to the average citizen.

[keithy_19]

Smokers don't hurt only themselves they also hurt others through 2nd hand smoke.

Eh.

[sailor]

True, but they disproportionately cause harm to society relative to the average citizen.

In what sense?

[sailor]

Eh.

If you could smoke within 50 yards of another human I could buy it.

[keithy_19]

If you could smoke within 50 yards of another human I could buy it.

:drunk:

[zildjian361]

and Happy Hour too.

[keithy_19]

and Happy Hour too.

:drunk:

[Chigworthy]

The taxes I pay on my cigars funds the SCHIP for low income children.


You're welcome

I order online and don't pay CA sales tax. Rage against the machine!

[jennysmurf]

I order online and don't pay CA sales tax. Rage against the machine!

You're supposed to pay the taxes on your online purchases! There's a special box for it on your tax form! You mean, you just wrote a zero?? I am so telling the governor next time I'm unlucky enough to have to be in Sacramento.

[Snacks]

I order online and don't pay CA sales tax. Rage against the machine!

Don't be surprised if years later you get a tax bill. I quit smoking cigarettes 6 years ago but the last year or so that I did smoke I would order cartons online. 3 years after I quit I got a tax bill in the mail for $300 or something like that. It had a list of ever carton I bought. I was so pissed because it was so many years later, I already quit and now I have to pay for something I no longer did and if you avg it out I actually paid more per pack because of this tax bill.

So happy I quit.

On a side note - AJ didn't you quit like 6 months ago too? How is it going for you?

[keithy_19]

You're supposed to pay the taxes on your online purchases! There's a special box for it on your tax form! You mean, you just wrote a zero?? I am so telling the governor next time I'm unlucky enough to have to be in Sacramento.

It's completely fine. He's here illegally.

[jennysmurf]

It's completely fine. He's here illegally.

That explains some things.

[A.J.]

Smokers don't hurt only themselves they also hurt others through 2nd hand smoke.

Fat people hurt others through their appearance.

[A.J.]

On a side note - AJ didn't you quit like 6 months ago too? How is it going for you?

It'll be 4 months on the 16th. During last night's Sox game I was ready to smoke a carton.

But thank you for asking.

[Chigworthy]

It'll be 4 months on the 16th.

I've sent you a congratulatory cigar.

[A.J.]

I've sent you a congratulatory cigar.

http://quarrylanefarms.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/drooling-homer1.gif

[Snacks]

It'll be 4 months on the 16th. During last night's Sox game I was ready to smoke a carton.

But thank you for asking.

Congrats! you should be passed the cravings part by now. Stick with it, Im sure you feel better already?

[RoseBlood]

The taxes I pay on my cigars funds the SCHIP for low income children.


You're welcome

This bothers you?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

This bothers you?

Yes, because its another federal program. Leave it to the states at the very least.


Also people should be thanking smokers for subsidizing this.

[RoseBlood]

Yes, because its another federal program. Leave it to the states at the very least.


Also people should be thanking smokers for subsidizing this.

Stop whining about your taxes going toward helping people. Start worrying about when they go toward hurting people.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Stop whining about your taxes going toward helping people. Start worrying about when they go toward hurting people.

Guess you havent seen my criticism of still being in Afghanistan.

[StanUpshaw]

Stop whining about your taxes going toward helping people. Start worrying about when they go toward hurting people.

So you'd be okay with it if a mugger steals your purse, then gives it to a crippled kid.

[keithy_19]

So you'd be okay with it if a mugger steals your purse, then gives it to a crippled kid.

Is it my Coach purse?

I mean, yeah RoseBlood, would ya?

:flush:

[Syd]

Yes, because its another federal program. Leave it to the states at the very least.

The states haven't even uniformly proven they can allow democracy to happen -- 9 states still have to check with the federal government about voting issues because of their gross inadequacy. If they can't be trusted to preserve a right that no one, liberal or conservative, disagrees with how can they be trusted to help the people that are at the bottom rung of capitalism?

[StanUpshaw]

The states haven't even uniformly proven they can allow democracy to happen -- 9 states still have to check with the federal government about voting issues because of their gross inadequacy. If they can't be trusted to preserve a right that no one, liberal or conservative, disagrees with how can they be trusted to help the people that are at the bottom rung of capitalism?

"Government can't be trusted to function without corruption at the state level. This proves that government can only be trusted to function at the federal level.

Syd logic: I can't lift 100 lbs...better try 5000.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

The states haven't even uniformly proven they can allow democracy to happen -- 9 states still have to check with the federal government about voting issues because of their gross inadequacy. If they can't be trusted to preserve a right that no one, liberal or conservative, disagrees with how can they be trusted to help the people that are at the bottom rung of capitalism?

This country isn't a democracy. So if there are fake ID's being made should we just go to a national drivers license?

[Syd]

This country isn't a democracy. So if there are fake ID's being made should we just go to a national drivers license?

Voters Act was more about keeping states from paper bag testing at the polls. So if there are states preventing people from voting because they're black, and the white people are scared shitless of it, then yes we should make the federal government step in and allow people to rightfully vote. Also fake IDs aren't that common -- stop allowing the narrative to be pushed on you. http://www.brennancenter.org/content/resource/voting_law_changes_in_2012

"Government can't be trusted to function without corruption at the state level. This proves that government can only be trusted to function at the federal level.

Syd logic: I can't lift 100 lbs...better try 5000.

StanUpshaw logic: I didn't take history classes because of lieberal bias and ignored that the country didn't even last a decade under a limited federal government approach because of feuds between states, insurrections and utterly gridlocked commerce. Better try that again!

if it worked, it would have worked in the past. It didn't, because your political theory is a fairy tale you tell to people who are too simplistic to understand that they're not better than everyone else.

[StanUpshaw]

StanUpshaw logic: I didn't take history classes because of lieberal bias and ignored that the country didn't even last a decade under a limited federal government approach because of feuds between states, insurrections and utterly gridlocked commerce. Better try that again!

if it worked, it would have worked in the past. It didn't, because your political theory is a fairy tale you tell to people who are too simplistic to understand that they're not better than everyone else.

It's such an absurd argument on its face.

One set of imaginary borders: Impossible! It'll never work!
A different set of imaginary borders: Yup, that's the ticket!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Voters Act was more about keeping states from paper bag testing at the polls. So if there are states preventing people from voting because they're black, and the white people are scared shitless of it, then yes we should make the federal government step in and allow people to rightfully vote. Also fake IDs aren't that common -- stop allowing the narrative to be pushed on you. http://www.brennancenter.org/content/resource/voting_law_changes_in_2012



StanUpshaw logic: I didn't take history classes because of lieberal bias and ignored that the country didn't even last a decade under a limited federal government approach because of feuds between states, insurrections and utterly gridlocked commerce. Better try that again!

if it worked, it would have worked in the past. It didn't, because your political theory is a fairy tale you tell to people who are too simplistic to understand that they're not better than everyone else.



In many states you need some form of ID to receive entitlements, why should voting be excluded

[Syd]

It's such an absurd argument on its face.

One set of imaginary borders: Impossible! It'll never work!
A different set of imaginary borders: Yup, that's the ticket!

It may be an absurd argument, but the US literally like, completely unironically, straight-faced, didn't last for a decade under a weak government rule. So it isn't an imaginary thing, it isn't an hypothesis, it actually literally happened.

http://www.socialstudiesforkids.com/subjects/articlesofconfederation.htm

Your politics are farcical nonsense that a bunch of people who are earmarked for depression suddenly decide they're important and they can go fuck off and go Galt (which has happened several times, and always fails because libertarians are inept at functioning in any form of society)


In many states you need some form of ID to receive
entitlements, why should voting be excluded

So voting is an entitlement? Should we expect to show papers any time we talk? Any time we walk down the street to protect our privacy? Voting is, again, literally a right and voter fraud is completely fabricated to allow the GOP to marginalize voters because their policies are actively hostile toward non-white, non upper-class, non-male citizens and they couldn't function without doing so. This is why the GOP is so contemptuous toward compulsory voting or early voting or anything that increases voter participation. Voters who are traditionally negatively affected by these policies vote Democrat so the GOP, like their iconic Lincoln, actively subvert the democratic process.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

So having rights requires no responsibility ? In CT I have the right to own a pistol but I have a responsibility to take safety classes.



I've never called for a massive police state just stopping people for no reason and asking for papers

[StanUpshaw]

It may be an absurd argument, but the US literally like, completely unironically, straight-faced, didn't last for a decade under a weak government rule. So it isn't an imaginary thing, it isn't an hypothesis, it actually literally happened.

Of course it didn't work. Power only knows how to grow. Without fail, a weak federal government will evolve into a powerful federal government. But here's the thing: I don't want a weak federal government. I want NO federal government. And once that happens, I want no state government. And when that happens, I want no county government. And when that happens, I want no city government.

You see, I don't like it when people claim they have the right to kill me if I disagree with them.



Your politics are farcical nonsense that a bunch of people who are earmarked for depression suddenly decide they're important and they can go fuck off and go Galt (which has happened several times, and always fails because libertarians are inept at functioning in any form of society)

And your politics are the rantings of a delusional megalomaniac who thinks his will should be forced upon the world, because he knows best.

It's hilarious that you have the fucking gall to bring up political histories, seeing how yours has a death toll of 100,000,00+. Your beliefs are literally like, completely unironically evil.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

It amazes me when I hear that the reason why communism has failed is due to its not ever applied correctly.

Communism/Central planning is doomed to fail from the beginning. Take something as recent as the nationalization of oil companies by Chavez. The govt takes them over, Chavez implements social programs and housing and all these benefits for the common good. That means money that would go towards regular maintenance of the platforms and rigs goes to these programs and as a result due to wear and tear and no maintenance eventualy the wells run dry and theres no oil to be extracted.

In regards to taking farms away from the farm owner, he's thrown in a prison and now theres 100 people who collectively now work on the farm but they know nothing about tilling the land and raising livestock, the animals die and the crops rot.


Man by instinct is hardwired for greed, the proletariat class who emerge as the new political class become the Bourgeoisie

[Syd]

You see, I don't like it when people claim they have the right to kill me if I disagree with them.

but in the absence of government, I would have the right to kill you because I disagree with you?


It's hilarious that you have the fucking gall to bring up political histories, seeing how yours has a death toll of 100,000,00+. Your beliefs are literally like, completely unironically evil.

How yours <mine> has a death toll of 10/100 million?

The closest movement I actually relate to was the Mountain, which even if you attribute all the deaths from the Reign of Terror on don't quite add up. Thanks for just assuming that I'm a socialist communist secular Islamofascist because Fox News tells you that anyone who opposes conservative views is one.

[StanUpshaw]

but in the absence of government, I would have the right to kill you because I disagree with you?




How yours <mine> has a death toll of 10/100 million?

The closest movement I actually relate to was the Mountain, which even if you attribute all the deaths from the Reign of Terror on don't quite add up. Thanks for just assuming that I'm a socialist communist secular Islamofascist because Fox News tells you that anyone who opposes conservative views is one.

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck

[hanso]

The states haven't even uniformly proven they can allow democracy to happen -- 9 states still have to check with the federal government about voting issues because of their gross inadequacy. If they can't be trusted to preserve a right that no one, liberal or conservative, disagrees with how can they be trusted to help the people that are at the bottom rung of capitalism?

Good point: he has a problem with federal waste ( liability ) and collection of taxes ( asset )

To further your point: if everthing was left on the lower levels city/state etc. we would still have Rep./Dem - con/lib only the Constitution would/could be left out of the picture, much like the blanket laws the right have been passing where they have power. Voter suppression/poll tax - abortion/Roe v. Wade, and many others.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Massholes never cease to amaze

Someone can exaggarate their background to further their careers or leave a woman to die in a watery grave via a 69 Olds but, hell this ban is for the children

http://www.examiner.com/article/massachusetts-bans-school-bake-sales

[PapaBear]

This is being done all over the country. Kennedy had nothing to do with it.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Dont text and walk in Fort Lee NJ


http://www.examiner.com/article/fort-lee-texting-law-effect-text-messages-while-walking-illegal


Whats next? banning a doubletake when a hot looking woman walks by?

[sailor]

Dont text and walk in Fort Lee NJ


http://www.examiner.com/article/fort-lee-texting-law-effect-text-messages-while-walking-illegal


Whats next? banning a doubletake when a hot looking woman walks by?

This has its own thread already.

[Jujubees2]

Surprised WF hasn't picked up on this already.

Big soda ban: Bloomberg administration proposes ban on sugary drinks larger than 16 ounces (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/big-soda-ban-bloomberg-administration-proposes-ban-sugary-drinks-larger-16-ounces-article-1.1087241#ixzz1wS6vZEsj)

[A.J.]

While I agree with this on principle, it's another example of the banning of personal freedoms. I expect Ron will be all over this one.

[StanUpshaw]

While I agree with this on principle, it's another example of the banning of personal freedoms. I expect Ron will be all over this one.

What sort of twisted principles do you hold that agree with the banning of personal freedoms?

[Furtherman]

These huge sugary drinks cause major health problems, which we all end up paying for, so let the ban go forth.


Personal freedom? Wah. Buy two 12 ounce drinks and double fist your way to fatdom.

[sailor]

These huge sugary drinks cause major health problems, which we all end up paying for, so let the ban go forth.


Personal freedom? Wah. Buy two 12 ounce drinks and double fist your way to fatdom.

I can't wait till he rolls out the ID cards and you can only have two beers a night.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

For a Jew, Bloomberg loves to implement some policies of the 3rd Reich

[Furtherman]

I can't wait till he rolls out the ID cards and you can only have two beers a night.

I know that's the quick retort to any banning of a substance or action, but I don't think banning things like smoking or large quantaties of sugar or salt would ever come to such extreme measures.

[StanUpshaw]

I know that's the quick retort to any banning of a substance or action, but I don't think banning things like smoking or large quantaties of sugar or salt would ever come to such extreme measures.

You would have said the same thing ten years ago if someone talked about banning 16+ oz. drinks.

[sailor]

I know that's the quick retort to any banning of a substance or action, but I don't think banning things like smoking or large quantaties of sugar or salt would ever come to such extreme measures.

I think this is sarcasm, but it's a bit subtle if so.

[Furtherman]

You would have said the same thing ten years ago if someone talked about banning 16+ oz. drinks.

My mother banned me from having 16+ oz. drinks. And I rarely drink soda. That's a win for me.

[sailor]

My mother banned me from having 16+ oz. drinks. And I rarely drink soda. That's a win for me.

That's part of the problem. The mayor should not be acting like your mommy.

[A.J.]

What sort of twisted principles do you hold that agree with the banning of personal freedoms?

I don't. But getting fatties to stop eating crappy foods is not a bad thing.

If I was still a smoker, I'd be glad to watch others get a taste of what we had to deal with.

[A.J.]

For a Jew, Bloomberg loves to implement some policies of the 3rd Reich

Hitler hated smoking too!

[Furtherman]

That's part of the problem. The mayor should not be acting like your mommy.

As long as he doesn't beat me with a belt, I see no problem with trying to curb this country's obesidy problem. It'll never be a cure, but it doesn't hurt either. And, if people want to buy two 12 ounce drinks, that's more money. A win for Mohammad who owns the 7-11.

[Furtherman]

I don't. But getting fatties to stop eating crappy foods is not a bad thing.

Exactly. This whole "but my personal freedom" rally is a bit silly when it's something that's actually good for you.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

where does it end? What if Bloomberg decides that those frappaccinos and other products that starbucks sells has too much caffeine? Why not ban the extra flavoring as well? Theres a lot of sugar, fat etc in those $5 coffees with all the add ons

How about those 64 ounce gatorades? they have a ton of sugar in them as well. Might as well ban all the food for those street fairs. No more zeppole or fried dough with sugar at the San Gennaro festival, gotta worry about fatties

Or maybe Bloomberg will put a limit on sausage and pepper wedges

[SonOfSmeagol]

Where's the specific proof that 16oz+ sodas cause obesity? Also, if people want 24oz and can't get it, they're probly gonna buy 2 16s because those will only be pennies more than the 12s, so they end up with 32oz!

[StanUpshaw]

As long as he doesn't beat me with a belt, I see no problem with trying to curb this country's obesidy problem. It'll never be a cure, but it doesn't hurt either. And, if people want to buy two 12 ounce drinks, that's more money. A win for Mohammad who owns the 7-11.

You blind, stupid cow.

He's not using a belt, he's using the threat of fines, imprisonment, and death. THAT IS WHAT THE LAW IS. Wake the fuck up you lemming piece of shit.

[sailor]

Exactly. This whole "but my personal freedom" rally is a bit silly when it's something that's actually good for you.

Seriously, you know he'd ban alcohol if he could.

[sailor]

You blind, stupid cow.

He's not using a belt, he's using the threat of fines, imprisonment, and death. THAT IS WHAT THE LAW IS. Wake the fuck up you lemming piece of shit.

Knock off the personal attacks.

And WF, Gatorade is included in the ban.

[Jujubees2]

Knock off the personal attacks.

And WF, Gatorade is included in the ban.

But beer isn't!

[sailor]

But beer isn't!

Correct.

[Furtherman]

You blind, stupid cow.

He's not using a belt, he's using the threat of fines, imprisonment, and death. THAT IS WHAT THE LAW IS. Wake the fuck up you lemming piece of shit.

Yep. Silly.

[Furtherman]

Seriously, you know he'd ban alcohol if he could.

They already tried that.

[A.J.]

Where's the specific proof that 16oz+ sodas cause obesity? Also, if people want 24oz and can't get it, they're probly gonna buy 2 16s because those will only be pennies more than the 12s, so they end up with 32oz!

See the Middle East and Japan. Ever since we started selling our beverages and fast foods over there, there's been an explosion of obesity and diabetes in places that were traditionally very healthy.

We export crap.

[Furtherman]

See the Middle East and Japan. Ever since we started selling our beverages and fast foods over there, there's been an explosion of obesity and diabetes in places that were traditionally very healthy.

We export crap.

If they can't see it in their own country, they're not going to believe it's happening in some faraway, magical place.

[StanUpshaw]

Knock off the personal attacks.


Exhorting the government to fine/imprison/murder peaceful citizens: Keep up the good work

Calling names: STOP IT YOU BAD MAN

[sailor]

Exhorting the government to fine/imprison/murder peaceful citizens: Keep up the good work

Calling names: STOP IT YOU BAD MAN

Ok.

[StanUpshaw]

Ok.

I'm just trying to understand the logic here.

Name calling is wrong. Obviously, it goes without saying. Someone could get their feelings hurt.

But threats of violence are okay? Can I threaten to pay the mob to do violence to fellow boardmembers, or is it only okay when I pay the mayor to do violence against fellow boardmembers?

Is it okay to pay the mayor to do violence against black boardmembers, or just fat ones?

[Crispy123]

If they can't see it in their own country, they're not going to believe it's happening in some faraway, magical place.

hey i have the right to drain the health care system and burden society with my shitty lifestyle choices if I want, maaaaaan.

[StanUpshaw]

hey i have the right to drain the health care system and burden society with my shitty lifestyle choices if I want, maaaaaan.

Who owns your body?

[Crispy123]

Who owns your body?

who bodys your own?

[SonOfSmeagol]

See the Middle East and Japan. Ever since we started selling our beverages and fast foods over there, there's been an explosion of obesity and diabetes in places that were traditionally very healthy.

We export crap.

I wasn't really questioning if sugar can make people fat, just wondering if there was any real logic behind that 16oz number.

[A.J.]

Gotcha.

Years ago, Dennis Miller had a good bit about large sodas.

[sailor]

I'm just trying to understand the logic here.

Name calling is wrong. Obviously, it goes without saying. Someone could get their feelings hurt.

But threats of violence are okay? Can I threaten to pay the mob to do violence to fellow boardmembers, or is it only okay when I pay the mayor to do violence against fellow boardmembers?

Is it okay to pay the mayor to do violence against black boardmembers, or just fat ones?

I don't think he did anything like that.

[Crispy123]

I wasn't really questioning if sugar can make people fat, just wondering if there was any real logic behind that 16oz number.

I see all kinds of studies about portion sizes increasing as obesity increases.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1447051/

http://www.nature.com/oby/journal/v12/n3/abs/oby200464a.html

http://journals.lww.com/nutritiontodayonline/Abstract/2003/03000/The_Supersizing_of_America__Portion_Size_and_the.4 .aspx

[StanUpshaw]

I don't think he did anything like that.

Was he endorsing a law that makes selling some soda illegal?

[sailor]

Was he endorsing a law that makes selling some soda illegal?

Just make your point sans the Socratic method.

[StanUpshaw]

Just make your point sans the Socratic method.

Are you afraid of exploring the logic of your beliefs?

[Furtherman]

All you have is your anger.

And an empty 16 oz plastic cup of crap.

[StanUpshaw]

All you have is your anger.

And an empty 16 oz plastic cup of crap.

I get angry when people advocate the use of force against me.

[disneyspy]

I get angry when people advocate the use of force against me.

don't worry about it,that preacher in NC can't really put you guys in a concentration camp

[Furtherman]

I get angry when people advocate the use of force against me.

That Bloomberg sure has a scary finger wag, doesn't he? Do you go all Hulk when the mailmain approaches your door too? There could be a summons in that bag!

[Furtherman]

don't worry about it,that preacher in NC can't really put you guys in a concentration camp

:laugh:

[StanUpshaw]

That Bloomberg sure has a scary finger wag, doesn't he? Do you go all Hulk when the mailmain approaches your door too? There could be a summons in that bag!

Face up to what you're advocating. You want to use the force of government to infringe on the rights of peaceful citizens because that's what fits your personal preferences. You're no better than a a pro lifer.