Killin girl babies

[StanUpshaw]

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/10/health/10birth.html

Test Can Tell Fetal Sex at 7 Weeks, Study Says

A simple blood test that can determine a baby’s sex as early as seven weeks into pregnancy is highly accurate if used correctly, a finding that experts say is likely to lead to more widespread use by parents concerned about gender-linked diseases, those who are merely curious and people considering the more ethically controversial step of selecting the sex of their children.

The appeal of the test, which analyzes fetal DNA found in the mother’s blood, is that it can establish sex weeks earlier than other options, like ultrasound, and is noninvasive, unlike amniocentesis and other procedures that carry small risks of miscarriage. The finding came in a study published online Tuesday in The Journal of the American Medical Association.

The tests have been available to consumers in drugstore chains and online for a few years, but their use has been limited, partly because their accuracy was unclear. One company, which guaranteed 99.9 percent accuracy as early as five weeks into pregnancy, filed for bankruptcy after a lawsuit by scores of women whose tests showed the opposite sex of the baby they ended up having.

European doctors now routinely use the tests to help expectant parents whose offspring are at risk for rare gender-linked disorders determine whether they need invasive and costly genetic testing. For example, Duchenne muscular dystrophy affects boys, but if the fetus is not the at-risk sex, such tests are unnecessary. But doctors in the United States generally have not prescribed the tests because they are unregulated and medical labs are not yet federally certified to use them.

That and other aspects of the pregnancy landscape could change as a result of the new study. The journal study analyzed reams of research on fetal DNA tests — 57 studies involving about 6,500 pregnancies — and found that carefully conducted tests could determine sex with accuracy of 95 percent at 7 weeks to 99 percent at 20 weeks.

The study “has wide-reaching implications,” said Dr. Louise Wilkins-Haug, director for maternal-fetal medicine and reproductive genetics at Brigham and Women’s Hospital in Boston, who was not involved in the research. “Individuals need to be careful” to ensure that companies use rigorous laboratory procedures and support accuracy claims with data, she added.

One potential worry is that women might abort fetuses of an undesired sex. Several companies do not sell tests in China or India, where boys are prized over girls and fetuses found to be female have been aborted. While sex selection is not considered a widespread objective in the United States, companies say that occasionally customers expressed that interest, and have been denied the test. A recent study of third pregnancies in the journal Prenatal Diagnosis found that in some Asian-American groups, more boys than girls are born in ratios that are “strongly suggesting prenatal sex selection,” the authors said.

...

Is the United States headed toward a gender genocide?

WHAT SAY YOU?

[PapaBear]

No. But China would like this.

[Tenbatsuzen]

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/10/health/10birth.html



Is the United States headed toward a gender genocide?

WHAT SAY YOU?

For fuck's sake, NO. Most sane people in this country will not abort even if it's not the preferred sex.

WTF is the times doing with this kind of slanted article?

The thing is this: if you're making decisions on needing genetic testing five weeks in, you're in a super-high risk pregnancy ANYWAY and you're gonna need testing.

And the ultrasound would pick up on physical defects that chromosonal testing won't pick up.

[jennysmurf]

As a nanny, I've worked for several families that would abort their child if they found out it wasn't physically perfect, and even more so if they knew there would be a more serious birth defect. Some people are crappy, and only have kids to fit in to the social circle. Of course, these people shouldn't be allowed to breed, but there you go.

[TripleSkeet]

Why just the girls? I know plenty of people that tried more then they would have just because they wanted a girl. Of course they wouldnt abort the baby if it was a boy but then again they arent sociopaths.

[Tenbatsuzen]

As a nanny, I've worked for several families that would abort their child if they found out it wasn't physically perfect, and even more so if they knew there would be a more serious birth defect. Some people are crappy, and only have kids to fit in to the social circle. Of course, these people shouldn't be allowed to breed, but there you go.

Can you say that for a fact? Seriously? And how can you abort "even more so". Aborting is aborting.

You just made the jump from aborting due to sex to making a blanket judgement on people for aborting because of serious birth defects. It's not a situation I'd wish on any parent, but I'm not going to judge a parent because they aborted due to Trisomy or something else. They had their reasons to do it.

[StanUpshaw]

Regarding parents who would choose to abort based on gender, can you elaborate on why you think they are "crappy" or "sociopathic"?


Do you guys see an ethical difference between aborting a fetus based on gender vs. implanting an embryo of the desired gender?

[Tenbatsuzen]

Regarding parents who would choose to abort based on gender, can you elaborate on why you think they are "crappy" or "sociopathic"?


Do you guys see an ethical difference between aborting a fetus based on gender vs. implanting an embryo of the desired gender?

There is an absolute difference. The first choice is killing an organism, the second is manipulating an organism.

As for the parental question, I'm pro choice but not a huge believer in abortion. I'd prefer for every possible option to be looked at before ending the pregnancy. However, I don't think it's "crappy" or "sociopathic" to end a pregnancy due to massive birth defects like Trisomy. As I said, it's a decision best left to the parents, who themselves have to deal with the decision that was made.

Personally, I think the fears of people terminating kids due to gender is just hype. Most (and I say this about 99.99% of the country) are happy if the baby is born healthy.

[StanUpshaw]

There is an absolute difference. The first choice is killing an organism, the second is manipulating an organism.

You'd still have to fertilize a bunch of eggs and filter out desired sex.

[jennysmurf]

Forget it. I wrote several responses, but all of them will be attacked mercilessly. I now remember why I steer clear of the political thread. It's hard to explain something in type. I've worked for shallow, materialistic people who don't care about their children, and only had them because it was the thing to do. If they discovered their child might be born with even a slight defect, they wouldn't think twice about aborting it because he or she wouldn't be perfect. That's all I was trying to say. Yes, they were and probably still are crappy people.

[Tenbatsuzen]

You'd still have to fertilize a bunch of eggs and filter out desired sex.

You asked the difference between a fetus and an embryo. As I said, again, one is terminating, the other is manipulating. Even if you're fertilizing eggs for an IVF procedure, the rest of the embryos are kept on ice. That's still not termination unless you make the decision, but again, there's a difference between fetus and embryo.

[Tenbatsuzen]

You'd still have to fertilize a bunch of eggs and filter out desired sex.

Actually, wait.

Since we can't manipulate sex right now, you're asking the wrong question.

Who is to say that down the road we can't manipulate the chromosomes of one embryo to produce a male or female baby? That's where I was coming from.

You just can't pick a boy or girl embryo right now, so there's no parallel between abortion and selectively choosing embryos.

My thought process is coming from using genetic manipulation.

[keithy_19]

Forget it. I wrote several responses, but all of them will be attacked mercilessly. I now remember why I steer clear of the political thread. It's hard to explain something in type. I've worked for shallow, materialistic people who don't care about their children, and only had them because it was the thing to do. If they discovered their child might be born with even a slight defect, they wouldn't think twice about aborting it because he or she wouldn't be perfect. That's all I was trying to say. Yes, they were and probably still are crappy people.

I got your post.

I've wondered myself that if I were to ever want kids what I would do if I found out my child had a birth defect. I guess quality of life would come into play (of the child, not me).

I don't think I would want to know though. It would be my child and defects wouldn't change my love for him/her.

[StanUpshaw]

You just can't pick a boy or girl embryo right now, so there's no parallel between abortion and selectively choosing embryos.

Of course you can.


I don't understand how you can convince yourself to post about shit when you quite obviously have no clue.

[Tenbatsuzen]

Of course you can.


I don't understand how you can convince yourself to post about shit when you quite obviously have no clue.

Go fuck yourself. We were having a discussion and you decide to be a cunt about something. I'm perfectly capable of admitting I don't know about something - which in this case, I didn't - I didn't know sex selection was capable through IVF - but you're still asking the wrong questions.

If you're putting the money and pain that IVF entails, you just want a healthy kid. There's no comparison to aborting because of wrong sex. Apples and oranges.

[Tenbatsuzen]

I got your post.

I've wondered myself that if I were to ever want kids what I would do if I found out my child had a birth defect. I guess quality of life would come into play (of the child, not me).

I don't think I would want to know though. It would be my child and defects wouldn't change my love for him/her.

You are speaking too broadly.

There are defects that are fixable, and there are those that are not.

You want to know everything possible through genetic testing so you are prepared.

[keithy_19]

You are speaking too broadly.

There are defects that are fixable, and there are those that are not.

You want to know everything possible through genetic testing so you are prepared.

I'm just saying that if I could find out if the child has down syndrome or a condition like that I don't think I would want to know.

Of course, this is me saying that now when I don't have any desire at all to be a parent.

[Earlshog]

Forget it. I wrote several responses, but all of them will be attacked mercilessly. I now remember why I steer clear of the political thread. It's hard to explain something in type. I've worked for shallow, materialistic people who don't care about their children, and only had them because it was the thing to do. If they discovered their child might be born with even a slight defect, they wouldn't think twice about aborting it because he or she wouldn't be perfect. That's all I was trying to say. Yes, they were and probably still are crappy people.

More along the lines of Aborting a baby cause it has browns eyes and they want blue, than say a serious quality of life issue like sever down syndrome. Kinda like the Paris Hiltinazation of parenting.

[Earlshog]

For fuck's sake, NO. Most sane people in this country will not abort even if it's not the preferred sex.

WTF is the times doing with this kind of slanted article?

The thing is this: if you're making decisions on needing genetic testing five weeks in, you're in a super-high risk pregnancy ANYWAY and you're gonna need testing.

And the ultrasound would pick up on physical defects that chromosonal testing won't pick up.


I read the article and didn't think it was slanted, I thought they did a good job of reporting and pointing out this possible ramifications of this test.

[TripleSkeet]

Regarding parents who would choose to abort based on gender, can you elaborate on why you think they are "crappy" or "sociopathic"?


Do you guys see an ethical difference between aborting a fetus based on gender vs. implanting an embryo of the desired gender?

I just think its a terrible reason. I can see someone aborting a child with birth defects because they dont think they can handle it, or financially they dont think theyd be able to provide a good life for the child, but just having abortion after abortion of what would be healthy children just because they arent the gender you are shooting for seems psychopathic. It wouldnt change my views on being pro choice, but it would creep me out.

I dont know much about the process of gender manipulation so I cant comment on the differences except it seems like you would be doing this before giving the child an actual chance to grow inside you, so it seems different to me. I dont know.

[TripleSkeet]

I'm just saying that if I could find out if the child has down syndrome or a condition like that I don't think I would want to know.

Of course, this is me saying that now when I don't have any desire at all to be a parent.

When we found out the gender of my daughter we did the Downs test because my wife was 30 and it came back abnormal. Had to wait 2 weeks for the amnio to find out definitely or not. Then we realized we put ourselves through 2 weeks of stress and worry for nothing. Even if it came back positive we werent going to abort the baby, so why did we bother getting the test? Preparation maybe?

So when we found out the gender for my son my wife didnt even bother with the test that time.

[Furtherman]

Eventually, it will come to this.

Doctor, how's the baby?

It will be fucked up.

Ok, abort.

OR

Doctor, how's the baby?

It will be healthy.

Ok, let's do this.



To abort on the basis of sex will most likely be illegal, and should be, because that's the detrimental to the progression of the species.

BUT, there will still be a few abortions done because of that because there are assholes who think that way. We'll never get rid of them.

[StanUpshaw]

Eventually, it will come to this.

Doctor, how's the baby?

It will be fucked up.

Ok, abort.

OR

Doctor, how's the baby?

It will be healthy.

Ok, let's do this.



To abort on the basis of sex will most likely be illegal, and should be, because that's the detrimental to the progression of the species.

BUT, there will still be a few abortions done because of that because there are assholes who think that way. We'll never get rid of them.

A woman's right to choose?

[Furtherman]

A woman's right to choose?

It always comes down to the woman.

[TripleSkeet]

A woman's right to choose?

Alot of women make choices based on what their BF or husbands want. So I wouldnt put all the weight on them.

[StanUpshaw]

It always comes down to the woman.

But you just said it should be illegal.

[Furtherman]

But you just said it should be illegal.

Like that will stop a woman who has made up her mind.

[Earlshog]

There is an absolute difference. The first choice is killing an organism, the second is manipulating an organism.

As for the parental question, I'm pro choice but not a huge believer in abortion. I'd prefer for every possible option to be looked at before ending the pregnancy. However, I don't think it's "crappy" or "sociopathic" to end a pregnancy due to massive birth defects like Trisomy. As I said, it's a decision best left to the parents, who themselves have to deal with the decision that was made.

Personally, I think the fears of people terminating kids due to gender is just hype. Most (and I say this about 99.99% of the country) are happy if the baby is born healthy.

No one is until mid way through Jr year in hs and your girlfriend is pregnant...

[angrymissy]

As a nanny, I've worked for several families that would abort their child if they found out it wasn't physically perfect, and even more so if they knew there would be a more serious birth defect. Some people are crappy, and only have kids to fit in to the social circle. Of course, these people shouldn't be allowed to breed, but there you go.

I actually know 2 people who aborted due to severe fetal defect , and let me tell you, it was not because their children would not fit into their social circle... and they are most certainly fit to breed, one of them now has 3 happy, healthy children.

[angrymissy]

And I hate nothing more than the attitude that women would have abortion after abortion to get the perfect child. Yes, women, we are just that dumb. Abortion is not like getting a mani/pedi for christsakes. It's painful, expensive and not an easy thing to do.

[Snacks]

Alot of women make choices based on what their BF or husbands want. So I wouldnt put all the weight on them.

tell that to all the guys who wanted an abortion but instead are paying child support and have kids when the gf/wife/ ex etc all decided to do as they wanted!

[Snacks]

I actually know 2 people who aborted due to severe fetal defect , and let me tell you, it was not because their children would not fit into their social circle... and they are most certainly fit to breed, one of them now has 3 happy, healthy children.

i dont see the problem, why bring more pain in suffering to a family and to the child who will never live a quality life? its sucks but with technology you would hope we could prevent shit like this. we are an overpopulated society as it is.

[Snacks]

And I hate nothing more than the attitude that women would have abortion after abortion to get the perfect child. Yes, women, we are just that dumb. Abortion is not like getting a mani/pedi for christsakes. It's painful, expensive and not an easy thing to do.

whoever thinks that is just dumb. how anyone can think that is ridiculous.

[cougarjake13]

As a nanny, I've worked for several families that would abort their child if they found out it wasn't physically perfect, and even more so if they knew there would be a more serious birth defect. Some people are crappy, and only have kids to fit in to the social circle. Of course, these people shouldn't be allowed to breed, but there you go.

glad this wasnt available when i was born, i wouldnt be here then

[jennysmurf]

I actually know 2 people who aborted due to severe fetal defect , and let me tell you, it was not because their children would not fit into their social circle... and they are most certainly fit to breed, one of them now has 3 happy, healthy children.

You missed my point completely. I wasn't talking about people aborting for severe birth defects, I was talking about the kind of people who would use the knowledge of what sex their child would be or whether or not it would be "perfect" to abort the child. I was talking about specific people I've worked for, I know them, and they shouldn't be allowed to breed. I don't know your friends, and was not basing my comment on them.

[StanUpshaw]

You missed my point completely. I wasn't talking about people aborting for severe birth defects, I was talking about the kind of people who would use the knowledge of what sex their child would be or whether or not it would be "perfect" to abort the child. I was talking about specific people I've worked for, I know them, and they shouldn't be allowed to breed. I don't know your friends, and was not basing my comment on them.

Did you catch this post?

And I hate nothing more than the attitude that women would have abortion after abortion to get the perfect child. Yes, women, we are just that dumb. Abortion is not like getting a mani/pedi for christsakes. It's painful, expensive and not an easy thing to do.

[TripleSkeet]

tell that to all the guys who wanted an abortion but instead are paying child support and have kids when the gf/wife/ ex etc all decided to do as they wanted!

Ya know, I agree it sucks, I know a few guys its happened to. But heres the thing. When asked, EVERY one of them said they didnt pull out. I have a pretty hard time feeling for guys when I hear that. I know its possible to get a girl pregnant by fucking them and not cumming inside them, I just dont know anyone its ever happened to.

When I asked these guys why they didnt some of the reasons I got were "I dont like to pull out" or "She didnt want me to" or "Im just too lazy to get up". I mean...to me thats just jaw dropping. Unless youre trying to get the girl pregnant what the fuck kind of logic is that? How can I feel bad for a guy when I hear that dumb shit?

Personally I used condoms until I was 22. After that I was pretty much done with them. But I made sure I ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS pulled out when I was sleeping with a girl. Didnt matter who it was. Didnt matter if they said they were on birth control, or wanted me to stay inside her, or anything. The first time I ever didnt pull out was with my wife and that was after we had been together 6 years and were trying to have a kid. If you dont want a child and are too lazy to use the old pull and pray method, Ive got no sympathy for you.

[Snacks]

Ya know, I agree it sucks, I know a few guys its happened to. But heres the thing. When asked, EVERY one of them said they didnt pull out. I have a pretty hard time feeling for guys when I hear that. I know its possible to get a girl pregnant by fucking them and not cumming inside them, I just dont know anyone its ever happened to.

When I asked these guys why they didnt some of the reasons I got were "I dont like to pull out" or "She didnt want me to" or "Im just too lazy to get up". I mean...to me thats just jaw dropping. Unless youre trying to get the girl pregnant what the fuck kind of logic is that? How can I feel bad for a guy when I hear that dumb shit?

Personally I used condoms until I was 22. After that I was pretty much done with them. But I made sure I ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS pulled out when I was sleeping with a girl. Didnt matter who it was. Didnt matter if they said they were on birth control, or wanted me to stay inside her, or anything. The first time I ever didnt pull out was with my wife and that was after we had been together 6 years and were trying to have a kid. If you dont want a child and are too lazy to use the old pull and pray method, Ive got no sympathy for you.

IMO it is a womans decision and should be. my response was to you saying that many girls will listen to what their bf or husbands want. I disagree, I think in some cases they do but I would bet the majority of abortions are made purely by the pregnant womens choice to abort for whatever reason they choose just like i think they are also the one who decide to keep the baby no matter what the bf or anyone else wants. Im fine with that and think thats how it should be.

[jennysmurf]

Did you catch this post?

Yep.

[TripleSkeet]

IMO it is a womans decision and should be. my response was to you saying that many girls will listen to what their bf or husbands want. I disagree, I think in some cases they do but I would bet the majority of abortions are made purely by the pregnant womens choice to abort for whatever reason they choose just like i think they are also the one who decide to keep the baby no matter what the bf or anyone else wants. Im fine with that and think thats how it should be.

I understand, Im just saying theres also alot of women that allow themselves to get pressured to wither keep or not keep the baby against what they really want.

[Earlshog]

Ya know, I agree it sucks, I know a few guys its happened to. But heres the thing. When asked, EVERY one of them said they didnt pull out. I have a pretty hard time feeling for guys when I hear that. I know its possible to get a girl pregnant by fucking them and not cumming inside them, I just dont know anyone its ever happened to.

When I asked these guys why they didnt some of the reasons I got were "I dont like to pull out" or "She didnt want me to" or "Im just too lazy to get up". I mean...to me thats just jaw dropping. Unless youre trying to get the girl pregnant what the fuck kind of logic is that? How can I feel bad for a guy when I hear that dumb shit?

Personally I used condoms until I was 22. After that I was pretty much done with them. But I made sure I ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS pulled out when I was sleeping with a girl. Didnt matter who it was. Didnt matter if they said they were on birth control, or wanted me to stay inside her, or anything. The first time I ever didnt pull out was with my wife and that was after we had been together 6 years and were trying to have a kid. If you dont want a child and are too lazy to use the old pull and pray method, Ive got no sympathy for you.

different story with men... I hear ya partner... I mean... well.... :help: