The Verizon Strike

[Justice4all]

I know this might not effect that many people on here, but with over 40,000 workers striking at Verizon I think that's significant to talk about.
One guy who works there, some of us happen to know. I asked him how come such a huge strike.
He told me after 7 years of working there, he has only 2 weeks vacation and Verizon was looking to take 2 days away from everyone and make is 8 business days and not 10.
Most companies I know of give you two weeks right off the bat and by year 5 you get 3 weeks. After 7 you only get 2??
One of the other main stips was they wanted to get a lower form of medical benefits. Management claimed that the premiums were way too high to maintain for everyone. (Blame Obama for that one)
But the part that makes me root for the workers is that I was told (but did not verify) that the top 6 execs for Verizon made over 3 BILLION dollars combined between their benefits, bonuses and stock options.
that's over 500 million per person on average and they want to take away 40,000+ people vacations and lower their benefits? Fuck that!!
I find it disgusting.

[TripleSkeet]

From what I read Verizon also turned a profit of something like $6 billion dollars annualy, and their top 5 execs recieved $258 million in bonuses over the last 4 years. Meanwhile they are trying to strip the workers of some of their benefits, and pensions as well. Its really disgusting. Alot of guys around here work for them and every day they are out there, finding Verizon trucks, and blocking in the replacement workers so they cant get to their next job.

Its really fucked up what Verizon is trying to do. Im for the union on this one.

[Bob Impact]

These are workers from the failing union controlled wireline business, which is hemorrhaging customers. According to Fortune 94% of operating revenue came from the (non-union) wireless business which means these 45,000 workers had absolutely nothing to do with (and therefore no right to) that money.

http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2011/08/08/both-sides-could-lose-in-verizon-strikes/?section=magazines_fortune

This strike is going to get ridiculous. Verizon already called in the FBI and the union is claiming that Verizon management drove their cars into crowds of protesters.
http://money.cnn.com/2011/08/12/technology/verizon_strike/

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Im with the union on this, I know someone in the CWA union and they also want to outsource. Im for capitalism but theres a tipping point in when it becomes greed.

There were hundreds of CWA workers protesting in front of one of the execs house. As long as they dont destroy his property or threaten his family I dont have a problem with that.

[Dude!]

There were hundreds of CWA workers protesting in front of one of the execs house. As long as they dont destroy his property or threaten his family I dont have a problem with that.

with the Wisconsin recall
elections now over
they have lots of free time

[TeeBone]

Im with the union on this... Im for capitalism but theres a tipping point in when it becomes greed.

These two sentences perfectly encapsulate what it means to not have the ability to think like an adult. The, "...tipping point in when it becomes greed" comment is such a blathering left-wing talking point I have heard over and over on TV, its just sickening. Think for yourself...Oh wait, you support Unions----thinking for yourself may be difficult. I'd explain but it just would not be worth it. I know i will never change your mind....I just wanted to highlight how much of a rube you are.
Until you can fully understand the greed of a union, you will never have the capacity to have a debate on the subject.

[TripleSkeet]

These two sentences perfectly encapsulate what it means to not have the ability to think like an adult. The, "...tipping point in when it becomes greed" comment is such a blathering left-wing talking point I have heard over and over on TV, its just sickening. Think for yourself...Oh wait, you support Unions----thinking for yourself may be difficult. I'd explain but it just would not be worth it. I know i will never change your mind....I just wanted to highlight how much of a rube you are.
Until you can fully understand the greed of a union, you will never have the capacity to have a debate on the subject.

Unions definitely can be greedy. They also have many faults. But unless youve ever worked for a non-union company that would completely take advantage of that fact, you can never appreciate just how necessary they are. Its amazing what companies try to get away with when there is no union to call them out on their bullshit. The unions ability to put a stop to mistreatment by a companies managers and execs far out weigh any of their faults.

[TripleSkeet]

These are workers from the failing union controlled wireline business, which is hemorrhaging customers. According to Fortune 94% of operating revenue came from the (non-union) wireless business which means these 45,000 workers had absolutely nothing to do with (and therefore no right to) that money.

http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2011/08/08/both-sides-could-lose-in-verizon-strikes/?section=magazines_fortune

This strike is going to get ridiculous. Verizon already called in the FBI and the union is claiming that Verizon management drove their cars into crowds of protesters.
http://money.cnn.com/2011/08/12/technology/verizon_strike/

That may be true about where their money comes from but thats bullshit that they arent entitled to any of it. Theyve only recently started growing the Fios product. Its literally just hitting new areas around here and these are the guys that are going from home to home setting this shit up. I know a few guys that do this work and you couldnt pay me enough for this shit. Some of the houses they are to go to and work in are just disgusting. And they have to crawl around in these shitholes running wires in 100 degree days. They deserve everything they are asking for.

[spoon]

Im with the union on this, I know someone in the CWA union and they also want to outsource. Im for capitalism but theres a tipping point in when it becomes greed.

There were hundreds of CWA workers protesting in front of one of the execs house. As long as they dont destroy his property or threaten his family I dont have a problem with that.

These two sentences perfectly encapsulate what it means to not have the ability to think like an adult. The, "...tipping point in when it becomes greed" comment is such a blathering left-wing talking point I have heard over and over on TV, its just sickening. Think for yourself...Oh wait, you support Unions----thinking for yourself may be difficult. I'd explain but it just would not be worth it. I know i will never change your mind....I just wanted to highlight how much of a rube you are.
Until you can fully understand the greed of a union, you will never have the capacity to have a debate on the subject.

Ha! This couldn't be more perfect! Take that you liberal slut WF!

This just shows how quick people are to jump down throats and call someone a lemming bc of their views no matter where they come from, or how well thought out they are. I guess T hasn't been paying attention much, bc making these claims toward WF couldn't be more hilarious.

[spoon]

It seems our boy WF has AT LEAST come into most convos looking to discuss them versus the old tact. I sense some more middling tendencies of late, so we probably need guys like T and Dude! to step up the pace a little. WF however will surely keep up his RSS Feed, as StanUp so perfectly put it. Is our lil WF growing up before our very eyes? Udog doubts it!

Oh well, I still never thought I'd see that post from him here.

10 seconds until Dude! interjects with a president sambo or anti-semetic comment.

10
9

[sailor]

Ha! This couldn't be more perfect! Take that you liberal slut WF!

This just shows how quick people are to jump down throats and call someone a lemming bc of their views no matter where they come from, or how well thought out they are. I guess T hasn't been paying attention much, bc making these claims toward WF couldn't be more hilarious.

Yeah, that was the unintentionally funniest thing I've read on here.

[spoon]

Yeah, that was the unintentionally funniest thing I've read on here.

I just can't believe TS didn't touch on this! That post was indeed one of the best things I've ever read on this site! Seriously, perfect is too light a word for it.

[disneyspy]

once WF is done looking for the union label he'll be back to bash you lefties

[Misteriosa]

i never thought id see the day when WF is labeled a liberal. :blink:

[TripleSkeet]

I just can't believe TS didn't touch on this! That post was indeed one of the best things I've ever read on this site! Seriously, perfect is too light a word for it.

I cant believe I missed that myself. I dont know if I wasnt paying attention to who he was quoting or what.

[Furtherman]

Hilarious! But I wished they had gone back and forth. You guys ruined it!

[spoon]

Hilarious! But I wished they had gone back and forth. You guys ruined it!

Oh I'm sure WF will add plenty once he sees it!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I had an epiphany in regards to greed. I work for a buy side asset management firm. Almost 3 years ago our old CEO was forced out by the board due to our firm being invested in Lehman Citi AIG, Fannie and Freddie. You all know what happened with those companies.

In Dec 2008 we got a new CEO. He was at Goldman for about 20 years. In the summer of 08 he went aboard to Merrill Lynch and was there for only 3 months and received a 25mm golden parachute when BofA took over Merrill. When he came on board to my company he was given over 2million shares of company stock and a guaranteed minimum 6 million dollar year end bonus. The mkt has been up a lot since Dec 08 however our assets under management have been very lukewarm due to investors pulling their money out. At one time my firm was the top of the line for investment research but we are no longer what we were. Plus hundreds of jobs have been outsoorced to India and now our IT dept is being outsourced to Vietnam. I know my CEO is guaranteed his bonus and its his right to take that but IMHO its not the right thing to do. Our raises have not been anything to write home about and the bonus pool for middle mgt like me have been lousy. Morale is so fucking low. I am non union so my route now is to get the fuck out or hold out for a possible buyout and severance pkg.


Thats my tirade about greed, the right thing to do would for my CEO to forego his bonus there could have been more for the people in the trenches.

[TripleSkeet]

I had an epiphany in regards to greed. I work for a buy side asset management firm. Almost 3 years ago our old CEO was forced out by the board due to our firm being invested in Lehman Citi AIG, Fannie and Freddie. You all know what happened with those companies.

In Dec 2008 we got a new CEO. He was at Goldman for about 20 years. In the summer of 08 he went aboard to Merrill Lynch and was there for only 3 months and received a 25mm golden parachute when BofA took over Merrill. When he came on board to my company he was given over 2million shares of company stock and a guaranteed minimum 6 million dollar year end bonus. The mkt has been up a lot since Dec 08 however our assets under management have been very lukewarm due to investors pulling their money out. At one time my firm was the top of the line for investment research but we are no longer what we were. Plus hundreds of jobs have been outsoorced to India and now our IT dept is being outsourced to Vietnam. I know my CEO is guaranteed his bonus and its his right to take that but IMHO its not the right thing to do. Our raises have not been anything to write home about and the bonus pool for middle mgt like me have been lousy. Morale is so fucking low. I am non union so my route now is to get the fuck out or hold out for a possible buyout and severance pkg.


Thats my tirade about greed, the right thing to do would for my CEO to forego his bonus there could have been more for the people in the trenches.

Greed is like everything else. Most people dont care about it until it affects them. I swear every time some douchebag quotes Gordon Gecko like thats the way people should be I want to punch them in the fucking throat.

[StanUpshaw]

And just think...to all of those Vietnamese, you're the greedy cunt.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Greed is like everything else. Most people dont care about it until it affects them. I swear every time some douchebag quotes Gordon Gecko like thats the way people should be I want to punch them in the fucking throat.

Different topic but look at Jeter and the greed he showed during his free agency. I fault Yankee management but he already had his 10 yr 189mm deal. Theres no fucking way he should have gotten 17mm per year

[underdog]

It seems our boy WF has AT LEAST come into most convos looking to discuss them versus the old tact. I sense some more middling tendencies of late, so we probably need guys like T and Dude! to step up the pace a little. WF however will surely keep up his RSS Feed, as StanUp so perfectly put it. Is our lil WF growing up before our very eyes? Udog doubts it!

Oh well, I still never thought I'd see that post from him here.

10 seconds until Dude! interjects with a president sambo or anti-semetic comment.

10
9

I would love for WF to become a normal person, at some point. He actually seems halfway decent sometimes, when not discussing politics.

[Recyclerz]

I had an epiphany in regards to greed. I work for a buy side asset management firm. Almost 3 years ago our old CEO was forced out by the board due to our firm being invested in Lehman Citi AIG, Fannie and Freddie. You all know what happened with those companies.

In Dec 2008 we got a new CEO. He was at Goldman for about 20 years. In the summer of 08 he went aboard to Merrill Lynch and was there for only 3 months and received a 25mm golden parachute when BofA took over Merrill. When he came on board to my company he was given over 2million shares of company stock and a guaranteed minimum 6 million dollar year end bonus. The mkt has been up a lot since Dec 08 however our assets under management have been very lukewarm due to investors pulling their money out. At one time my firm was the top of the line for investment research but we are no longer what we were. Plus hundreds of jobs have been outsoorced to India and now our IT dept is being outsourced to Vietnam. I know my CEO is guaranteed his bonus and its his right to take that but IMHO its not the right thing to do. Our raises have not been anything to write home about and the bonus pool for middle mgt like me have been lousy. Morale is so fucking low. I am non union so my route now is to get the fuck out or hold out for a possible buyout and severance pkg.


Thats my tirade about greed, the right thing to do would for my CEO to forego his bonus there could have been more for the people in the trenches.

This is a perfect example of why I believe the right-wing/Republican/Tea Party solutions are exactly the wrong medicine to solve our current problems. The primary economic force of our lifetimes is the globalization of industrial economies and will remain so until we really start running out of oil, making the shipping costs more expensive than cheap labor. The managerial class "running" these enterprises are using the structural changes as cover to stuff their pockets full before either the shareholders or the workers get their first dollar, and the Tea Party "Cut taxes & regulations" mantra only make their kleptocracy easier and really does very little to help the small business people who are supposedly the beneficiaries of this agenda.

I don't believe that government bureaucrats are the ideal counterweight to try to stop this (pension managers both public & private should step up as major shareholders) but attacking government as the source of all evil is just a ruse.

That said, the Verizon workers should be more realistic and stop trying to preserve benefits that will completely disappear if the landline business dies and figure out how to be equal partners with management in stopping the downward spiral of the business and setting up a sustainable business model going forward.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I would love for WF to become a normal person, at some point. He actually seems halfway decent sometimes, when not discussing politics.

I still believe that we should have a smaller government and have some libertarian beliefs but Ive also realized that there should be some sort of deals made. I already have taken a somewhat softer stance on illegal immigration but still believe it is an important issue. A completely cut off department of education would be ideal but a 10% reduced budget I can live with.


I have no problem raising revenue, I still firmly believe that 200K isnt considered rich, but if you want to raise a hedge fund managers or an A list athletes taxes. Go for it.

Ive never classified myself as a tea party member, They want bigger government as long as it suits their needs,


Different thread but that italian sportscar banned by the NHTSA, how about classify it as a track car only.

[zildjian361]

What's Jeet got to do with this verizon strike, my FIOS works great:thumbup:

[furie]

i'm not a union guy, but verizon is the evil empire here and the workers aren't asking for much.

[Zipgun]

I know this will be long, but if you actually care or are interested, you'll read.

For those of you that are uneducated and siding with Verizon and the corporate greed that permeates this nation, I suggest you have a conversation with a person actually on strike, not listen to lies in the media that are paid for by Verizon. You will not see a negative news story about Verizon but you certainly will see a VZ commercial during it's broadcast. A news outlet will not run a bad story if it has VZ as a sponsor.

As a striking VZ employee, I can tell you. I may not get back to respond quickly, but that's probably because I'm walking a picket line.

Pensions? GONE. Period.
Benefits? GONE. The talk as of now is we'd have to pay $1000 a month for our benefits.
Get hurt on the job? Too bad. You get nothing.
You catch a cold? Better be gone within 24 hours and don't catch another one the rest of the year.
Job security? GONE.
You like where your office is? That's nice, we're moving it now up to 100 miles in any direction we please. And then we can move it another 100 miles again if we want. And again after that.
Have trouble with your service and want to talk to someone? Enjoy your trip to India or the Phillippines. After you're been hung up on at least once by our automated never ending phone tree.
Raises of 2% or dare I even ask 3% to adjust to the cost of living increases? Performance based approval. Which means you'll never see them ever because you'll never be given that approval no matter how well you did.
You have to take the day off short notice because your kid is sick or your car died or any other reason? Tough shit. Find someone else to deal with it. And don't be late or you'll be disciplined.


That's only a handful of things that we're dealing with.

We are NOT looking for anything more that what we have. We just don't want what we fought for (that had already been whittled away over the years) to be taken away.

Verizon reported $24.2 BILLION in pre-tax income for 2009 and 2010 yet paid $0 in federal income tax. In addition, Verizon actually claimed a tax REFUND of $1.3 BILLION. All while defrauding customers and falsifying records. But we employees are the ones that need to be taking pay cuts and have our pensions and benefits slashed? Not the executives that take millions upon millions in bonuses and additional perks?

They are paying scab labor to do OUR work and hiring the NJ State Police and other local PD's and paying them PREMIUM OT wages to intimidate and threaten us, that's costing them MORE than if they just paid the workers regularly. But the wireline business is failing and they're broke?

You know that cell phone you use? It requires landlines.
Yes. It requires landlines to work.
But see, you didn't know that, did you?

For days 1 & 2 of the strike, it was the NJ State Police that were guarding our building while we peaceably walked the picket line. Well the state took them back, so now, local PD's are being PAID PREMIUM to be VZ's personal security.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y296/atamichimpo/scabsecurity.jpg

See this car? Sure, looks normal. Nope.
This is a VZ spy that's been parked with a running motor across from my office. It was solidified when I asked the Verizon hired Toms River NJ PD to question why he was parked illegally. The officer talked to him, let him stay there and then told us it was not our concern. I was told it was private property and the police allowed him to remain with his engine running. Violating a law about loitering, being parked within mere feet from a stop sign and also a multi-thousand dollar fine for idling with no purpose that any other citizen would be cited for. As a resident of Toms River and taxpayer, that is appalling.

It was clear that if I continued my questioning of the officer that I had to ask to investigate the matter, even though it was 50 yards away directly in front of him, I was going to end up in the backseat. I recited the actual laws back to the officer which were that he was loitering, idling with no purpose and parked in front of of a stop sign. I asked if that was me, would I get a citation and he stood in total silence. Again, this was none of my concern.

We picketers that were left at that time walked away as if we were leaving for the night. The car fell for the ruse and left, but after we walked back he rounded the corner and returned to his post. Further cementing the fact that he was there purely to spy on us. And of course when we actually left, he went on his way.

And understand that those officers have the option to turn down the duty. It's paid for by Verizon and not a scheduled tour. They are working those shifts by their own decision, not orders.

Two of my coworkers were HIT BY A CAR that crossed the picket line by a customer that thought he could come to our building, which isn't even a customer location, and the local police let the driver go with no charges. A HIT AND RUN that was given the OK by the Verizon paid police force.

Despite making $19.5 billion in profits and paying out $258 million to it’s top 5 executives in the last four years, Verizon wants to take back more than 50 years of collective bargaining and destroy middle class jobs, just like many of the other large corporations. The President of Verizon makes $55,000 a day, how much does the average American worker make per day?

Verizon has paid $0 in federal corporate income taxes over the last three years, how much has the average American worker paid in federal income tax?

Verizon received nearly $1 billion in tax benefits from the federal government (your money) over the last three years, how much has the average American worker received in tax benefits?

We have been on strike for one week. We have made nothing. The CEO has made $385,000 plus benefits for life in that week. Do you find this acceptable?

We understand that we may have to give up some things that we have had in the past, but we should not have to give up everything including our job security. All we are asking is for Verizon to sit down and bargain with the people that helped build it. It’s time to bring jobs back to America and end corporate greed.

Instead of yelling "Go back to work!" out of your car window and driving away like a coward, stop and have an actual conversation like a reasonable person with one of us.

Are there slogan shouting picketers that aren't as well informed? Of course. But you can find some of us that are much better informed to have a conversation with.

Just talk to us, and you'll see that we ARE the American worker.

[spoon]

I know this will be long, but if you actually care or are interested, you'll read.

For those of you that are uneducated and siding with Verizon and the corporate greed that permeates this nation, I suggest you have a conversation with a person actually on strike, not listen to lies in the media that are paid for by Verizon. You will not see a negative news story about Verizon but you certainly will see a VZ commercial during it's broadcast. A news outlet will not run a bad story if it has VZ as a sponsor.

As a striking VZ employee, I can tell you. I may not get back to respond quickly, but that's probably because I'm walking a picket line.

Pensions? GONE. Period.
Benefits? GONE. The talk as of now is we'd have to pay $1000 a month for our benefits.
Get hurt on the job? Too bad. You get nothing.
You catch a cold? Better be gone within 24 hours and don't catch another one the rest of the year.
Job security? GONE.
You like where your office is? That's nice, we're moving it now up to 100 miles in any direction we please. And then we can move it another 100 miles again if we want. And again after that.
Have trouble with your service and want to talk to someone? Enjoy your trip to India or the Phillippines. After you're been hung up on at least once by our automated never ending phone tree.
Raises of 2% or dare I even ask 3% to adjust to the cost of living increases? Performance based approval. Which means you'll never see them ever because you'll never be given that approval no matter how well you did.
You have to take the day off short notice because your kid is sick or your car died or any other reason? Tough shit. Find someone else to deal with it. And don't be late or you'll be disciplined.


That's only a handful of things that we're dealing with.

We are NOT looking for anything more that what we have. We just don't want what we fought for (that had already been whittled away over the years) to be taken away.

Verizon reported $24.2 BILLION in pre-tax income for 2009 and 2010 yet paid $0 in federal income tax. In addition, Verizon actually claimed a tax REFUND of $1.3 BILLION. All while defrauding customers and falsifying records. But we employees are the ones that need to be taking pay cuts and have our pensions and benefits slashed? Not the executives that take millions upon millions in bonuses and additional perks?

They are paying scab labor to do OUR work and hiring the NJ State Police and other local PD's and paying them PREMIUM OT wages to intimidate and threaten us, that's costing them MORE than if they just paid the workers regularly. But the wireline business is failing and they're broke?

You know that cell phone you use? It requires landlines.
Yes. It requires landlines to work.
But see, you didn't know that, did you?

For days 1 & 2 of the strike, it was the NJ State Police that were guarding our building while we peaceably walked the picket line. Well the state took them back, so now, local PD's are being PAID PREMIUM to be VZ's personal security.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y296/atamichimpo/scabsecurity.jpg

See this car? Sure, looks normal. Nope.
This is a VZ spy that's been parked with a running motor across from my office. It was solidified when I asked the Verizon hired Toms River NJ PD to question why he was parked illegally. The officer talked to him, let him stay there and then told us it was not our concern. I was told it was private property and the police allowed him to remain with his engine running. Violating a law about loitering, being parked within mere feet from a stop sign and also a multi-thousand dollar fine for idling with no purpose that any other citizen would be cited for. As a resident of Toms River and taxpayer, that is appalling.

It was clear that if I continued my questioning of the officer that I had to ask to investigate the matter, even though it was 50 yards away directly in front of him, I was going to end up in the backseat. I recited the actual laws back to the officer which were that he was loitering, idling with no purpose and parked in front of of a stop sign. I asked if that was me, would I get a citation and he stood in total silence. Again, this was none of my concern.

We picketers that were left at that time walked away as if we were leaving for the night. The car fell for the ruse and left, but after we walked back he rounded the corner and returned to his post. Further cementing the fact that he was there purely to spy on us. And of course when we actually left, he went on his way.

And understand that those officers have the option to turn down the duty. It's paid for by Verizon and not a scheduled tour. They are working those shifts by their own decision, not orders.

Two of my coworkers were HIT BY A CAR that crossed the picket line by a customer that thought he could come to our building, which isn't even a customer location, and the local police let the driver go with no charges. A HIT AND RUN that was given the OK by the Verizon paid police force.

Despite making $19.5 billion in profits and paying out $258 million to it’s top 5 executives in the last four years, Verizon wants to take back more than 50 years of collective bargaining and destroy middle class jobs, just like many of the other large corporations. The President of Verizon makes $55,000 a day, how much does the average American worker make per day?

Verizon has paid $0 in federal corporate income taxes over the last three years, how much has the average American worker paid in federal income tax?

Verizon received nearly $1 billion in tax benefits from the federal government (your money) over the last three years, how much has the average American worker received in tax benefits?

We have been on strike for one week. We have made nothing. The CEO has made $385,000 plus benefits for life in that week. Do you find this acceptable?

We understand that we may have to give up some things that we have had in the past, but we should not have to give up everything including our job security. All we are asking is for Verizon to sit down and bargain with the people that helped build it. It’s time to bring jobs back to America and end corporate greed.

Instead of yelling "Go back to work!" out of your car window and driving away like a coward, stop and have an actual conversation like a reasonable person with one of us.

Are there slogan shouting picketers that aren't as well informed? Of course. But you can find some of us that are much better informed to have a conversation with.

Just talk to us, and you'll see that we ARE the American worker.

My father can attest to the bolded part as it had a LOT to do with him finally retiring from his reporter/editor position for over decades. He was told to scrap story after story bc of sponsors or links to certain politicians in the past. Some eventually went down, but to say these assholes (individuals and companies) probably would have been exposed earlier is an understatement. He fought the good fight and suffered many injustices in the workplace bc of it. I expect him to write a book about it very soon as so much today links into his lifetime experience and he's a fantastic writer. In fact, tie in that he also was on strike the better part of a decade from one news outlet only to start a competing one in the same area and same field in the meantime bc of issues Zip here writes of, his story and experience is very vital to today's shitty political, corporate and worker's rights environment.

[spoon]

Oh and zip, the Verizon picketers in front of the Rt. 3 store was receiving a lot of support from what I saw. I gave a supportive beep, even if it's only a gesture. As the people lose time and time again, it eventually hits us all. I find it amazing cops can be so stupid as to align with those same forces that would love to strip their benefits and more as well. Funny how an OT paycheck can make you do things without thinking of the impact.

I've also had those type discussions with overzealous police officers only to get the same "back of the car" threats with NOTHING to justify it. When a cop is in the wrong, they get loud, forceful and threaten the very people who ACTUALLY pay their salaries.

[Tenbatsuzen]

A friend of mine is also on strike and basically illustrated the same issues that Zipgun did. I was taken aback how far Verizon wanted to go with this.

I posted in response a simple comment about how bad it was for his medical bennies to go up that much and how the NJEA lost their minds over a 1.5% salary reduction to pay for medical last year.

And in walks a teacher who loses their mind and screams about how we know "nothing" about the situation, even when I showed him a letter from the NJEA Union Head about 1.5% salary to medical benefits was unacceptable. (Mind you, for a 45k a year teacher, this equals about 700 bucks a YEAR, as opposed to the 500-1000 bucks a MONTH verizon workers are looking at.


I'm with Verizon workers on this one. I know it's a union for technology that is becoming obsolete, but strong arm tactics from a private company are just unacceptable.

[CruelCircus]

Hey Zipgun, why do you want to work for such an awful company?

Alot of guys around here work for them and every day they are out there, finding Verizon trucks, and blocking in the replacement workers so they cant get to their next job.

I'm all for the workers standing up for themselves, but here's my line.
That's just some childish bullshit. These guys are just trying to do work, and customers are getting fucked in the process.
I'd have no problem locking those guys up.

[PapaBear]

Hey Zipgun, why do you want to work for such an awful company?
Is he supposed decide, "The company I work for sucks. I should go work somewhere else, because they suck!"?

[CruelCircus]

Is he supposed decide, "The company I work for sucks. I should go work somewhere else, because they suck!"?

Yes.

[PapaBear]

Yes.
Very wise move, in today's job market.

[CruelCircus]

Very wise move, in today's job market.

Way to twist what I said into something much more "spectacular."

No one's saying just jump into unemployment.
But there's no reason to not start looking for a new job.
The old rule is that you never quit a job w/o a new one lined up.

[PapaBear]

Way to twist what I said into something much more "spectacular."

No one's saying just jump into unemployment.
But there's no reason to not start looking for a new job.
The old rule is that you never quit a job w/o a new one lined up.
The rules are WAY different these days. Especially for jobs that most of the striking Verizon workers have. Not only is the overall job market in terrible shape, but they are in a market that is dissipating. And, I'm sure the vast majority of them have worked for Verizon for a long time. You don't work a job like that for many years, and just decide to find a new place to work.

[Zipgun]

Hey Zipgun, why do you want to work for such an awful company?
When I started there 18 years ago, it was a good job. It's slowly declined contract after contract that they keep chipping away at what we have. When you have 18 years of your life invested in a career, you don't just throw it away and start from zero again somewhere else with less than what you had in the first place. I was 21 when I started there. It's essentially the only work experience worth any mention I could ever put on a resume. And for that matter, my experience there ONLY applies to there. I'd be throwing out all of my seniority, vacation accrual, pension, etc...

That particular building I'm being locked out of and being bullied by the locally hired police force that I pay taxes for? I've spent over 1/4 of my life in it. I have built a career and invested in it. I take pride in doing my job well.



I'm all for the workers standing up for themselves, but here's my line.
That's just some childish bullshit. These guys are just trying to do work, and customers are getting fucked in the process.
I'd have no problem locking those guys up.

No. Those guys are trying to do OUR work. Those are scabs and managers that do not know how to do the job and attempting to do the work of highly trained and skilled technicians. They are lucky they finish their shifts with their lives. Not because of violence, but because of incompetence.

They are management, not electrical workers.

They've driven trucks into ditches, shorted out power lines on poles causing huge sparks, not properly set up caution flags and cones on busy highways when they are working on the shoulder, not putting their chocks under the bucket truck's wheels, even driven wrecklessly to avoid even looking picketers, the people they've known and worked with for many years, in the eye. They don't even have the knowledge on the proper technique to take a ladder off of the top of a van. That's just a few examples. Aside from that, they're driving around all day avoiding their work or doing a piss poor job when they attempt it.

Yeah, go to Youtube and enter Verizon Scab. Spend a few hours watching.

[Dude!]

Oh and zip, the Verizon picketers in front of the Rt. 3 store was receiving a lot of support from what I saw. I gave a supportive beep, even if it's only a gesture.

wow...way to take a stand
i'm surprised that verizon
did not cave there and then

[TripleSkeet]

Im going to have to ask my friends how the polide around here have been. I completely believe your stories, but Philly has always been such a large pro-union town, I wonder if the cops have given the strikers a hard time or not.

[TripleSkeet]

wow...way to take a stand
i'm surprised that verizon
did not cave there and then

What is he supposed to do? Picket a company he doesnt work for?

[Zipgun]

wow...way to take a stand
i'm surprised that verizon
did not cave there and then

Actually, it helps a lot. It's public support. It makes people talk about it later in their day. "Hey did you see those Verizon workers out on Hooper Ave?". It spreads and catches on. And it helps lift the spirits of the people walking the line. And the scabs inside the buildings can hear it and it's just another thing to remind them that WE'RE being supported by the public, not them.

So thank you, I appreciate it from those of you that do beep and wave.

And yeah, if you want to walk the line in support even if you don't work there, we're happy to have you. Wear a red shirt. The more the better. Just be respectful and peaceable.


We are walking for ALL American workers and standing up to the face of corporate greed.

[Zipgun]

Im going to have to ask my friends how the polide around here have been. I completely believe your stories, but Philly has always been such a large pro-union town, I wonder if the cops have given the strikers a hard time or not.

Honestly, from what I've heard, the police have been very supportive everywhere with the exception of Toms River, NJ. Right where I live and work.

Seems the chief was not happy with us. VZ is paying his cops salaries at the moment. Since they are, he's VZ's lackey now.

Apparently the cheif rolled through a picket line at a technician garage in an unmarked car and in plain clothes, naturally. So of course some picketers called him a scab, without knowing it was a police chief. Nor did he take the time to explain who he was and his thin skin took offense. He then called for a pick up truck from the school district to also cross the line into the parking lot of the garage and of course, picketers called that truck a scab, etc. Why he would need a pick up truck from the local school district to cross into a VZ garage parking lot? Your guess is as good as mine, and my guess is that he just wanted to see what happened.

So now he's a VZ pitbull and his minions are not our friends.

[spoon]

What is he supposed to do? Picket a company he doesnt work for?

Not to mention I said it was only a gesture. I was working myself at the time and really do side with the union on this and most issue of late.

To me circus, ur take is completely unreal and spoken like someone with a business can do no wrong stance/gov is too big and the cause of all our ills.

[newport king]

as a striking employee, i just don't understand people's position in rooting for a corporation in this situation.

as far as it being a "dying" technology, people are very misinformed.

wireless was built on wireline's back with wireline dollars. These corporate pigs stopped giving a shit about copper years ago. It's been the equivalent of putting a band-aid on a gunshot wound for the last 15 years. Now though, the company has put all their eggs into the Fios basket, (that i install) which incase you didn't know is the WIRELINE side of the company.

So don't tell me its not as profitable as it once was, because all those landlines they "lost" are all DSL and Fios subscribers.

Just so you know what we deal with on the street level, i've been asking for a fucking screwdriver for over 4 months, that i'm told we don't have the money for... yet they can build this castle in Basking Ridge.

<iframe width="560" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/31HdIdhLirk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[spoon]

corporate cribs?

if that doesn't just sum up the world today

:wallbash:

[newport king]

and on a side note, the cops (at least where i've been) couldn't be cooler. there may have been some people i know, that got picked up and there may have been a show put on for anyone watching, but they were immediately dropped off around the corner.

[Zipgun]

as a striking employee, i just don't understand people's position in rooting for a corporation in this situation.

as far as it being a "dying" technology, people are very misinformed.

wireless was built on wireline's back with wireline dollars. These corporate pigs stopped giving a shit about copper years ago. It's been the equivalent of putting a band-aid on a gunshot wound for the last 15 years. Now though, the company has put all their eggs into the Fios basket, (that i install) which incase you didn't know is the WIRELINE side of the company.

So don't tell me its not as profitable as it once was, because all those landlines they "lost" are all DSL and Fios subscribers.

Just so you know what we deal with on the street level, i've been asking for a fucking screwdriver for over 4 months, that i'm told we don't have the money for... yet they can build this castle in Basking Ridge.

<iframe width="560" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/31HdIdhLirk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

And that's only for the upper Echelon of management.

My office has a fucked up vending machine that barely works and overcharges by a dime for everything when it does, 3rd time hand-me-down stained cubicles, 2nd time around computers, a leaky roof, toilets that don't flush, filthy carpets and crumbling and water stained ceiling tiles.

The newest thing at my office is a dumpster. The last one caught fire when the cleaning crew threw out the ashtray into it.

[newport king]

oh and one more fact about this company,

a guy i know and work with was shot on the job, while being robbed. The company offered 5,000 for any tips leading to an arrest.

30 days later someone cut a cable and the offered 50,000 for any tip that leads to an arrest.

nice right?

[StanUpshaw]

That's actually a pretty outstanding thing they did.

[newport king]

Shut up. Isnt there a ufc fight u can go jerk off to?

[StanUpshaw]

Volkmann-Castillo right now. Wrestler vs wrestler...kinda boring.

[newport king]

Actually let me elaborate on the story. The guy got shot in a part of Irvington thats been deemed a 2man area, but since management declared "theres no such thing as 2man area" he was working alone.

Oh and zipgun, at least u have furniture. They came in and cleared out every chair and table we had in the tech room. This also included a microwave. You want a hot lunch? Fuck you. Theyre crying poverty but had enough money to install the very best GPS system available so if you're lucky enough to have a truck with AC, many do not, you cant actually use it because you are allowed no longer than a half hour of idle time for your entire day.

[Tenbatsuzen]

They've even pissed off the IndyCar drivers...

http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/8918/imag0029l.jpg

[TripleSkeet]

Not to mention I said it was only a gesture. I was working myself at the time and really do side with the union on this and most issue of late.


You and your half assed gestures. If you really wanna show your dedication youd burn down their offices.

Ill tell you what, Verizon is just cutting their own throat doing this shit in this area. Comcast already has a stranglehold on the market here as it is. They just started pushing Fios and because of the low intro rate alot of people either switched or considered it. But after this? No way. I know alot of people stopped considering it and wouldnt be surprised to see even more switching back to Comcast.

[Snacks]

You and your half assed gestures. If you really wanna show your dedication youd burn down their offices.

Ill tell you what, Verizon is just cutting their own throat doing this shit in this area. Comcast already has a stranglehold on the market here as it is. They just started pushing Fios and because of the low intro rate alot of people either switched or considered it. But after this? No way. I know alot of people stopped considering it and wouldnt be surprised to see even more switching back to Comcast.

people for the most part care only about cost and speed of internet. fios is cheaper and has a better package. no one is switching to comcast because of this unless they are union loyalist. if they already have fios and are still on contract they arent switching either. most people even a lot of supporters arent wasting their own money by cancelling their service and paying a cancellation fee.

not to mention fios internet and tv is so much better then comcast and you get more hd channels.

[TripleSkeet]

people for the most part care only about cost and speed of internet. fios is cheaper and has a better package. no one is switching to comcast because of this unless they are union loyalist. if they already have fios and are still on contract they arent switching either. most people even a lot of supporters arent wasting their own money by cancelling their service and paying a cancellation fee.

not to mention fios internet and tv is so much better then comcast and you get more hd channels.

Fios internet and tv isnt better then Comcast around here. More HD channels of shit I dont watch. Also Im not sure if they do now but for the longest time you couldnt watch any Phillies and Flyers games that were on CSN on Verizon. Thats like 98% of their home games. Most people werent going to agree to that shit around these parts.

Now they are saying their football package is free. But thats bullshit too. Its only for a year and only if you get their most expensive package for something like 5 months or so. And even if it was free they are about a year too late. Once Comcast came out with the Redzone Channel, nobody gave a shit about having the NFL package as you could see all the highlights from around the league, as they happened, for free.

Now of course this area is probably well taken care of as Comcasts home tower is based here and they have huge investments in the sports teams, but Im just saying how it is here. Verizon has no chance of topping Comcast here, and all this is doing is hurting their chances of getting anyone that was on the fence about switching.

[Zipgun]

oh and one more fact about this company,

a guy i know and work with was shot on the job, while being robbed. The company offered 5,000 for any tips leading to an arrest.

30 days later someone cut a cable and the offered 50,000 for any tip that leads to an arrest.

nice right?

That's the tech that was in Irvington, right?

The management also knows that's what is referred to a "Two-man" area. No tech goes in there by himself because it's a bad area and they get robbed all the time. Was he sent with a second tech? Nope. They disregard the safety of our techs because they need to make their metrics. So he got shot.

[TripleSkeet]

I'm all for the workers standing up for themselves, but here's my line.
That's just some childish bullshit. These guys are just trying to do work, and customers are getting fucked in the process.
I'd have no problem locking those guys up.

The cops cant lock them up. They arent doing anything violent or illegal. All they are doing is sitting down in a public street blocking a truck so other replacement workers cant do THEIR jobs. Ive got no problem with it. Even if it does fuck the customers. Because the union guys arent the ones fucking the customers, Verizon is by trying to turn these guys into fucking sweat shop workers.

[sailor]

The cops cant lock them up. They arent doing anything violent or illegal. All they are doing is sitting down in a public street blocking a truck so other replacement workers cant do THEIR jobs. Ive got no problem with it. Even if it does fuck the customers. Because the union guys arent the ones fucking the customers, Verizon is by trying to turn these guys into fucking sweat shop workers.

and how are they doing that? double-parking?

[disneyspy]

and how are they doing that? double-parking?

tsssss maybe they're brewing coffee and have donuts or sumpthin tsss sssss

[TripleSkeet]

and how are they doing that? double-parking?

No. Literally sitting down or standing up in front of the truck. They dont touch the drivers or use any violence. They just stand there. Obviously the truck isnt going to hit them or run them over. So they stand there and block them in. When the guy calls the cops the cop will eventually get there and tell the union workers to move, and they will. But it definitely holds them up. You know how long it takes a cop to respond to a call that "some union workers are standing in front of a truck so they cant leave their parking space"???

They even have friends on Facebook messaging them or texting them whenever they see Verizon trucks so they know where to go to block them in.

[Snacks]

No. Literally sitting down or standing up in front of the truck. They dont touch the drivers or use any violence. They just stand there. Obviously the truck isnt going to hit them or run them over. So they stand there and block them in. When the guy calls the cops the cop will eventually get there and tell the union workers to move, and they will. But it definitely holds them up. You know how long it takes a cop to respond to a call that "some union workers are standing in front of a truck so they cant leave their parking space"???

They even have friends on Facebook messaging them or texting them whenever they see Verizon trucks so they know where to go to block them in.

Thats just childish and stupid. It shit like that, that makes people go against the unions and the workers who are stkining because at the end of the day the other guy is just trying to make a living too. The people they should be fighting are the ceos and the stock holders not joe schmo who is probably struggling even more then the union worker.

[StanUpshaw]

But it's THEIR job. They're entitled to it.

[TripleSkeet]

Thats just childish and stupid. It shit like that, that makes people go against the unions and the workers who are stkining because at the end of the day the other guy is just trying to make a living too. The people they should be fighting are the ceos and the stock holders not joe schmo who is probably struggling even more then the union worker.

Look, Ive got a cousin that works non-union, and he had problems with union guys while working too. But he was a guy that tried getting in the union and couldnt, so he went to a non-union company and was harrassed by a union recruiter. He actually chased the guy back to his car with a pipe wrench. But this is different.

They ARE going against the CEOS when they do stuff like this. Not the scabs. Those guys are getting paid by the hour regardless of if their truck is blocked in. But the harder they make it for Verizon to do business, and the more complaints they get from customers, the better chance there is of a deal getting done.

Whats the point of striking peacefully if they replace all their workers with scabs who work for less and the job still gets done? What incentive do they have to do business with the union? None. You dont just LET the company give away your jobs when your in a union. It would be stupid on their part and would hurt them in the long run. They are doing this the right way. No violence. No threats. Just peaceful protest.

Shit if this were 35 years ago these scabs would be coming back to the office with broken bones and bruises all over them.

[StanUpshaw]

Look, Ive got a cousin that works non-union, and he had problems with union guys while working too. But he was a guy that tried getting in the union and couldnt, so he went to a non-union company and was harrassed by a union recruiter. He actually chased the guy back to his car with a pipe wrench. But this is different.

They ARE going against the CEOS when they do stuff like this. Not the scabs. Those guys are getting paid by the hour regardless of if their truck is blocked in. But the harder they make it for Verizon to do business, and the more complaints they get from customers, the better chance there is of a deal getting done.

Whats the point of striking peacefully if they replace all their workers with scabs who work for less and the job still gets done? What incentive do they have to do business with the union? None. You dont just LET the company give away your jobs when your in a union. It would be stupid on their part and would hurt them in the long run. They are doing this the right way. No violence. No threats. Just peaceful protest.

Shit if this were 35 years ago these scabs would be coming back to the office with broken bones and bruises all over them.

You're a parody.

[Snacks]

Look, Ive got a cousin that works non-union, and he had problems with union guys while working too. But he was a guy that tried getting in the union and couldnt, so he went to a non-union company and was harrassed by a union recruiter. He actually chased the guy back to his car with a pipe wrench. But this is different.

They ARE going against the CEOS when they do stuff like this. Not the scabs. Those guys are getting paid by the hour regardless of if their truck is blocked in. But the harder they make it for Verizon to do business, and the more complaints they get from customers, the better chance there is of a deal getting done.

Whats the point of striking peacefully if they replace all their workers with scabs who work for less and the job still gets done? What incentive do they have to do business with the union? None. You dont just LET the company give away your jobs when your in a union. It would be stupid on their part and would hurt them in the long run. They are doing this the right way. No violence. No threats. Just peaceful protest.

Shit if this were 35 years ago these scabs would be coming back to the office with broken bones and bruises all over them.

and thats why people go against the union. i look it as there are people looking for work that have familes too. No one owns any of these jobs and the "scabs" need to work too.

[Dude!]

The people they should be fighting are the ceos and the stock holders....

yeah, like the
union pension funds

[TripleSkeet]

and thats why people go against the union. i look it as there are people looking for work that have familes too. No one owns any of these jobs and the "scabs" need to work too.

They are doing the disservice to all the guys that came before them and fought and busted their ass for employee rights. What good is all that shit if these guys are willing to be treated like dogshit and work for peanuts? If the union doesnt stop these assholes, they just get replaced by them and thats it. Why would they willingly do that?

People dont go against the union for fights like this either. Most people support them in this fight. They go against the unions when they try to hold up the company for more money or drag out jobs to keep their guys working while their workers fuck around because they are protected.

Ive never been a huge union guy. I know they can be as corrupt tas the companies that employ them, I just think this is one of those times where they are completely in the right.

[TripleSkeet]

You're a parody.

Do you even contribute to conversations anymore? Or strictly troll for arguments?

Suck a dick.

[Zipgun]

Thats just childish and stupid. It shit like that, that makes people go against the unions and the workers who are stkining because at the end of the day the other guy is just trying to make a living too.

No. At the end of the day, that scab is grabbing quick money that he knows is temporary and is fully aware that he's taking it out of the hands of a union worker. No one crosses a picket line to work without knowing exactly what they're getting into. The managers that normally work in my building? I don't have a problem with as much because they would normally come to work there anyway, but when I see cars crossing the picket line with plates from New York, Tennessee, Florida, Pennsylvania? Fuck you. You're a fucking scab.


The people they should be fighting are the ceos and the stock holders not joe schmo who is probably struggling even more then the union worker.

And we are. There are pickets and vigils literally in front of CEO Lowell McAdam's house in Mendham. And by the way, WE ARE stockholders. I don't know how Joe Schmo is strugging any harder than any of us. Not getting paid, is not getting paid. Neither of us are working so sounds like we're pretty even. And on 9/7, we have no benefits anymore. They run out 30 days after a work stoppage. So good luck to any of the 45,000 of us that have recently had surgery, need a procedure, have ongoing health issues, or need daily medications.



Man, it really bugs me when people just blurt stupid shit out without knowing the facts.

What is it that you do for a living?

[Snacks]

No. At the end of the day, that scab is grabbing quick money that he knows is temporary and is fully aware that he's taking it out of the hands of a union worker. No one crosses a picket line to work without knowing exactly what they're getting into. The managers that normally work in my building? I don't have a problem with as much because they would normally come to work there anyway, but when I see cars crossing the picket line with plates from New York, Tennessee, Florida, Pennsylvania? Fuck you. You're a fucking scab.



And we are. There are pickets and vigils literally in front of CEO Lowell McAdam's house in Mendham. And by the way, WE ARE stockholders. I don't know how Joe Schmo is strugging any harder than any of us. Not getting paid, is not getting paid. Neither of us are working so sounds like we're pretty even. And on 9/7, we have no benefits anymore. They run out 30 days after a work stoppage. So good luck to any of the 45,000 of us that have recently had surgery, need a procedure, have ongoing health issues, or need daily medications.



Man, it really bugs me when people just blurt stupid shit out without knowing the facts.

What is it that you do for a living?

The facts are that you have a job and the company decided to make changes you guys decided not to like what they offered and walked off the job and picketed. Thats your right and its also the companies right to make decisions that are better for their bottom line. Other people who arent working decide to take the job and you guys think its ok to threaten them or do illegal shit like block their cars in, harass them because their scabs? How dare they cross your union lines? The fact that "scabs" can go to work and pick up where the union workers left off tells me that all of you are easily replaceable and not as valuable as you think. If any idiot can walk off the street and do or learn your job its a good thing. Its not like my fios being installed was any better from the union worker. I had fios installed and it tooks 2 guys 3 hours to use my same comcast lines for all my tvs and basically put the stupid box in my basement. They didnt program everything properly and showed up with 3 out of 5 boxes wrong. The order was right they grabbed or packed their trucks wrong. So we had to accept the wrong boxes just to get the job completed. I have had fios, comcast and direct tv. Fios is by far the best tv and internet but by far the worse installers. Direct tv which are mainly contracted self employed or small business workers were by far the fastest , friendliest and quickest at their job not to mention they cleaned their mess up after they were done. So I shed no tears for the union guys who installed my fios!

If you were working would you be losing your insurance on 9/7? No so dont blame anyone for this new inconvenience but your union for deciding to strike. Whatever happened to the days of old that the union actually gave its members cash while picketed and while on strike? Do you guys no longer get?

You guys are stockholders then show up to meetings when they have their quarterly and yearly voting and vote for your best interests. The problem is most workers who get stock options dont pay attention to that shit and never vote. Its only after there are cutbacks and down sizing that they pay attention and then blame the the stockholders and ceos.

[newport king]

Snacks, there is so much wrong with, not only your line of thinking, but your entire post. Just go on youtube and type in verizon scabs and see for yourself how "easily replaceable" we are. We have caught managers working unsafely, in our instance, we would get 15 to 30 days suspension for.

And sailor, no, theyre not blocking in vehicles. They'll throw up a picket line around it though making it hard to get back in.

I get aggravated when i hear people talk about how this country is in a recession and we should basically be happy to have a job. No not here. Not in this case. Not when they post record profits and still want about 20,000 in concessions from every member.

[Zipgun]

The facts are that you have a job and the company decided to make changes you guys decided not to like what they offered and walked off the job and picketed. Thats your right and its also the companies right to make decisions that are better for their bottom line.
The changes the company made were not for the good of the company. They were to increase their already in the billions profits, not revenue, but profits, to supplement the bank accounts of the executives. They cannot do it to the customers or they'll walk, so they take it back from the employees by cutting their pensions, benefits and wages. No executives took a single cut in anything. The CEO makes $55,000 a DAY and has benefits for life. Not to mention tens of millions of dollars in bonuses.



Other people who arent working decide to take the job and you guys think its ok to threaten them or do illegal shit like block their cars in, harass them because their scabs? How dare they cross your union lines? The fact that "scabs" can go to work and pick up where the union workers left off tells me that all of you are easily replaceable and not as valuable as you think.

There have been NO threats and we are picketing and protesting within our legal rights.
And again, you are clueless to think that the scabs are even remotely competent to do the jobs of trained electrical workers.


If any idiot can walk off the street and do or learn your job its a good thing. Its not like my fios being installed was any better from the union worker. I had fios installed and it tooks 2 guys 3 hours to use my same comcast lines for all my tvs and basically put the stupid box in my basement. They didnt program everything properly and showed up with 3 out of 5 boxes wrong. The order was right they grabbed or packed their trucks wrong. So we had to accept the wrong boxes just to get the job completed. I have had fios, comcast and direct tv. Fios is by far the best tv and internet but by far the worse installers. Direct tv which are mainly contracted self employed or small business workers were by far the fastest , friendliest and quickest at their job not to mention they cleaned their mess up after they were done. So I shed no tears for the union guys who installed my fios!

What you DON'T know is that those technicians would love to have done everything properly for you. The MANAGEMENT does not supply the garages with the proper equipment for them to install so their option is to give you the best that they can or give you nothing. We complain about it constantly, but we cannot tell you about that at the time of the install. We are not permitted to disparage to company in the least or we get fired. Techs are also getting gigged about times to do the installs and maintenance jobs and have move on to the next job or they get disciplined. If they didn't give you as much time as the job demanded, it's because their boss threatens their job if they don't increase "productivity".



If you were working would you be losing your insurance on 9/7? No so dont blame anyone for this new inconvenience but your union for deciding to strike. Whatever happened to the days of old that the union actually gave its members cash while picketed and while on strike? Do you guys no longer get?

YES, YOU IDIOT! WE WOULD HAVE LOST OUR BENEFITS! THAT'S THE POINT!
The new contract that would have taken effect on 8/7 would demand that in order to keep them, we would be paying NO LESS than $1000 PER MONTH at the very least. Or go ahead and just not have them. Our UNION is fighting for us to KEEP them! Can you afford $1000 a month OR MORE for benefits, which are even less than the ones we had?


You guys are stockholders then show up to meetings when they have their quarterly and yearly voting and vote for your best interests. The problem is most workers who get stock options dont pay attention to that shit and never vote. Its only after there are cutbacks and down sizing that they pay attention and then blame the the stockholders and ceos.

We have union officials to do that. You can't have 45,000 of us across the entire footprint logistically show up.


And you still haven't told me what you do for a living.

[Zipgun]

Wait a second...

I just realized I'm having an argument with the guy that calls his mom to blurt out things without researching.

Ok, now I understand why you don't get it.

[Zipgun]

Here. I'll do some of the heavy lifting for you.

http://www.imprintwebdesign.com/strike/

[Zipgun]

Yep. Any idiot off the street can do the job.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y296/atamichimpo/283030_1927906282905_1399640503_31713018_4601179_n .jpg



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<iframe width="560" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/w_riiXoztMY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

And a personal favorite.

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[TripleSkeet]

The facts are that you have a job and the company decided to make changes you guys decided not to like what they offered and walked off the job and picketed. Thats your right and its also the companies right to make decisions that are better for their bottom line. Other people who arent working decide to take the job and you guys think its ok to threaten them or do illegal shit like block their cars in, harass them because their scabs? How dare they cross your union lines? The fact that "scabs" can go to work and pick up where the union workers left off tells me that all of you are easily replaceable and not as valuable as you think. If any idiot can walk off the street and do or learn your job its a good thing. Its not like my fios being installed was any better from the union worker. I had fios installed and it tooks 2 guys 3 hours to use my same comcast lines for all my tvs and basically put the stupid box in my basement. They didnt program everything properly and showed up with 3 out of 5 boxes wrong. The order was right they grabbed or packed their trucks wrong. So we had to accept the wrong boxes just to get the job completed. I have had fios, comcast and direct tv. Fios is by far the best tv and internet but by far the worse installers. Direct tv which are mainly contracted self employed or small business workers were by far the fastest , friendliest and quickest at their job not to mention they cleaned their mess up after they were done. So I shed no tears for the union guys who installed my fios!

If you were working would you be losing your insurance on 9/7? No so dont blame anyone for this new inconvenience but your union for deciding to strike. Whatever happened to the days of old that the union actually gave its members cash while picketed and while on strike? Do you guys no longer get?

You guys are stockholders then show up to meetings when they have their quarterly and yearly voting and vote for your best interests. The problem is most workers who get stock options dont pay attention to that shit and never vote. Its only after there are cutbacks and down sizing that they pay attention and then blame the the stockholders and ceos.

Dude, these ideas are like from the dark ages of sweatshops. Let me guess, you sided with NFL owners too, right? The poor saps should be happy just to get the scraps they do, who cares if the company makes billions, they supply the jobs, so they should get whatever they want. Fuck the workers, right? Thats the attitude thats KILLING America right now. Its also that attitude that is allowing these fucking companies to outsource the jobs to countries like India where they pay these guys pennies so they dont have to spend money by paying a fair wage. Until shit like this is stopped, things are just gonna get worse.

Not sure what you do for a living, but how would you like your years of loyalty and hard work, which you received raises and promotions for, rewarded with a boot to your ass in order to bring some new kid with no experience who will try to do your job for peanuts? Thats corporate business at its best, unless youre at the very top of the ladder.

[Rhah]

http://www.alternet.org/economy/152010/americans_don%27t_realize_just_how_badly_we%27re_g etting_screwed_by_the_top_0.1_percent_hoarding_the _country%27s_wealth/

[CountryBob]

Here's an idea - if you want to have a company to provide service in America, you must use American's for service. no more outsourcing to cheap ass countries. I called AOL the other day and was talking to Vijay Singh in the Phillipines. A 2 minute conversation took 30 minutes to happen. Sorry, not the right thread////

[TripleSkeet]

Here's an idea - if you want to have a company to provide service in America, you must use American's for service. no more outsourcing to cheap ass countries.

Until they are somehow able to create and enforce a law like this, America is going to continue to slide downward.

[sailor]

Until they are somehow able to create and enforce a law like this, America is going to continue to slide downward.

The country is not sliding downhill because customer service jobs are going to India.

[Rhah]

I believe top management of companies should have to live in whatever country they are stashing the majority of their offshore profits in to avoid paying US taxes.

[Zipgun]

The country is not sliding downhill because customer service jobs are going to India.

So you support the shipping of American jobs overseas while there's unemployment at extraordinary levels so ridiculously wealthy corporations can make even more money?

That might fall just under actual terrorism as being less patriotic.

[Tenbatsuzen]

So you support the shipping of American jobs overseas while there's unemployment at extraordinary levels so ridiculously wealthy corporations can make even more money?

That might fall just under actual terrorism as being less patriotic.

OK, so:

1) http://teaandpolitics.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/mohammed_atta.jpg?w=202&h=271

2) http://www.greanvillepost.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/discover-peggy-russian-300x217.jpg

[Zorro]

So you support the shipping of American jobs overseas while there's unemployment at extraordinary levels so ridiculously wealthy corporations can make even more money?

That might fall just under actual terrorism as being less patriotic.

I guess I'm having trouble following this thread because it's the hard-wired division of Verizon that's on strike. Unless you move the properties these guys install to it would be impossible to out source those jobs.
further...

As I understood workers were being asked to contribute more to their benefits packages in lieu of wage freezes and layoffs. They can scream all they want but they're hard-wired guys in a virtual world. Verizon is losing a million wired customers a year. The reality is the world these workers grew up in no longer exists, the why's and wherefor's are another discussion, but for today its either take waht you get or walk.

[newport king]

They can scream all they want but they're hard-wired guys in a virtual world. Verizon is losing a million wired customers a year. The reality is the world these workers grew up in no longer exists, the why's and wherefor's are another discussion, but for today its either take waht you get or walk.

they don't count "lost lines" as dsl or fios subscribers. don't believe the hype on how much they're "losing" if you're losing subscriber lines to yourself, is it really a loss?

[Zorro]

So you support the shipping of American jobs overseas while there's unemployment at extraordinary levels so ridiculously wealthy corporations can make even more money?

That might fall just under actual terrorism as being less patriotic.

Mega-Corporations are no longer American. They're Belgian, Italian, Canadian, Brazilian, Chinese, Mexican and on and on. The days of a Patriotic American corporation went out with the flood. Trade deals negotiated by your government turned them into citizens of the world. Corporate responsibilty knows no border it knows a bottom line and what's good for that bottom line is to maximize profits. If it takes slapping a pink ribbon on a box of Cheerios, an American Flag on a can of Bud or a rain forest free slogan on a box of paper to make you feel better that's what it does. But it needs to make money. Whether it makes it in Bangalore or Bangor it doesn't care. Patriotism and Nationalism no longer have a place in the corporate mindset.

[Snacks]

The changes the company made were not for the good of the company. They were to increase their already in the billions profits, not revenue, but profits, to supplement the bank accounts of the executives. They cannot do it to the customers or they'll walk, so they take it back from the employees by cutting their pensions, benefits and wages. No executives took a single cut in anything. The CEO makes $55,000 a DAY and has benefits for life. Not to mention tens of millions of dollars in bonuses.




There have been NO threats and we are picketing and protesting within our legal rights.
And again, you are clueless to think that the scabs are even remotely competent to do the jobs of trained electrical workers.



What you DON'T know is that those technicians would love to have done everything properly for you. The MANAGEMENT does not supply the garages with the proper equipment for them to install so their option is to give you the best that they can or give you nothing. We complain about it constantly, but we cannot tell you about that at the time of the install. We are not permitted to disparage to company in the least or we get fired. Techs are also getting gigged about times to do the installs and maintenance jobs and have move on to the next job or they get disciplined. If they didn't give you as much time as the job demanded, it's because their boss threatens their job if they don't increase "productivity".




YES, YOU IDIOT! WE WOULD HAVE LOST OUR BENEFITS! THAT'S THE POINT!
The new contract that would have taken effect on 8/7 would demand that in order to keep them, we would be paying NO LESS than $1000 PER MONTH at the very least. Or go ahead and just not have them. Our UNION is fighting for us to KEEP them! Can you afford $1000 a month OR MORE for benefits, which are even less than the ones we had?



We have union officials to do that. You can't have 45,000 of us across the entire footprint logistically show up.


And you still haven't told me what you do for a living.

I have always made my own living working for myself and now that i decided to work for someone else after all these years im not out of work. So yes i know what its like. thats why i say either work for yourself or you are stuck living by others rules. thats just the way it is. sorry

[newport king]

Mega-Corporations are no longer American. They're Belgian, Italian, Canadian, Brazilian, Chinese, Mexican and on and on. The days of a Patriotic American corporation went out with the flood. Trade deals negotiated by your government turned them into citizens of the world. Corporate responsibilty knows no border it knows a bottom line and what's good for that bottom line is to maximize profits. If it takes slapping a pink ribbon on a box of Cheerios, an American Flag on a can of Bud or a rain forest free slogan on a box of paper to make you feel better that's what it does. But it needs to make money. Whether it makes it in Bangalore or Bangor it doesn't care. Patriotism and Nationalism no longer have a place in the corporate mindset.

I actually couldn't agree more. and assuming you're not a mega-rich CEO, my question is why are people ok with this? I mean, when does it stop?

[Snacks]

:ohmy:Mega-Corporations are no longer American. They're Belgian, Italian, Canadian, Brazilian, Chinese, Mexican and on and on. The days of a Patriotic American corporation went out with the flood. Trade deals negotiated by your government turned them into citizens of the world. Corporate responsibilty knows no border it knows a bottom line and what's good for that bottom line is to maximize profits. If it takes slapping a pink ribbon on a box of Cheerios, an American Flag on a can of Bud or a rain forest free slogan on a box of paper to make you feel better that's what it does. But it needs to make money. Whether it makes it in Bangalore or Bangor it doesn't care. Patriotism and Nationalism no longer have a place in the corporate mindset.

and you are correct. this is a global market its not all about us anymore and we need to understand that. maybe our asshole politicians need to change laws to make it easier to stay here. maybe they need to cut off the loopholes that get these corp to pay no taxes? I think the oil companies who make billions in profits per quarter need to actually pay taxes rather then given a tax credits. We need to create new energy jobs and new tech jobs and get rid of old jobs. Sorry but as technology changes old world jobs will be lost or at least cut back on. Not all union workers are bad but I think so many Americans hate the unions of today because of the public sector unions. I also think many people look at it as in this bad economy anyone walking out on a job is stupid.

[Bob Impact]

The changes the company made were not for the good of the company. They were to increase their already in the billions profits, not revenue, but profits,
You realize this is the goal of every single for profit company ever right? And that earning profit, not revenue is in the best interest of the company?
to supplement the bank accounts of the executives.
And you too right, didn't you say you're a stock holder?


There have been NO threats and we are picketing and protesting within our legal rights.
And again, you are clueless to think that the scabs are even remotely competent to do the jobs of trained electrical workers.

What you DON'T know is that those technicians would love to have done everything properly for you. The MANAGEMENT does not supply the garages with the proper equipment for them to install so their option is to give you the best that they can or give you nothing. We complain about it constantly, but we cannot tell you about that at the time of the install. We are not permitted to disparage to company in the least or we get fired. Techs are also getting gigged about times to do the installs and maintenance jobs and have move on to the next job or they get disciplined. If they didn't give you as much time as the job demanded, it's because their boss threatens their job if they don't increase "productivity".

No arguement here, I used to be in the low voltage installation business, it's not an cake walk of a job and management never makes it easier.


YES, YOU IDIOT! WE WOULD HAVE LOST OUR BENEFITS! THAT'S THE POINT!
The new contract that would have taken effect on 8/7 would demand that in order to keep them, we would be paying NO LESS than $1000 PER MONTH at the very least. Or go ahead and just not have them. Our UNION is fighting for us to KEEP them! Can you afford $1000 a month OR MORE for benefits, which are even less than the ones we had?

Right, you're not working so you don't get benefits from the company who you're not working for. Seems fair to me.


We have union officials to do that. You can't have 45,000 of us across the entire footprint logistically show up.

If you're a stock holder you should be getting a proxy vote card every year, shouldn't you? As far as I know you don't need to literally show up to the meeting.

[Snacks]

I actually couldn't agree more. and assuming you're not a mega-rich CEO, my question is why are people ok with this? I mean, when does it stop?

people are ok with this because everyone wants everything. we have gotten so used to it and out own president told us after 9/11 not to sacrifice but to go spend and live life as usual. I was just talking about this with my cousin not too long ago. Everything has become too affordable. In the past only certain income levels drove a Cadillac. If you were a middle class family you had a chevy or a ford etc. The one neighbor with a caddy was the "rich neighbor". Now every other person has a benz, bmw, lexus etc. Xmas and birthdays were a time when you got presents now people want what they want so they buy it now because its more affordable. Everyone now has plasma tvs? If this was the 60s or 70s no one would have the great new items except the rich but we have been sold a bill of goods that we all deserve to have the same. The american dream. We all deserve and should own a home even though in reality most shouldnt and that was part of the reason of the financial crisis. Blame idiots who know nothing about their finances and blame corp greed that has figured out a way to let you finance everything. The problem is that big bubble burst and so will others.

I dont think most of us are against the worker but a lot of us say be happy in this moment in time to have a job. I also blame a lot of you who vote republican. You dont want to pay crazy health care costs but when Obama wanted to have health care for all the repubs voted it down and he settled for this new crap deal which now raises health care.

amd 1 more thing, yes all 45k of you can show up and vote. thats what those meetings are for, for stock holders to get their say even those who own 1 share. the problem is you guys dont care until its too late and this is where the union drops the ball.

[angrymissy]

These two sentences perfectly encapsulate what it means to not have the ability to think like an adult. The, "...tipping point in when it becomes greed" comment is such a blathering left-wing talking point I have heard over and over on TV, its just sickening. Think for yourself...Oh wait, you support Unions----thinking for yourself may be difficult. I'd explain but it just would not be worth it. I know i will never change your mind....I just wanted to highlight how much of a rube you are.
Until you can fully understand the greed of a union, you will never have the capacity to have a debate on the subject.

This could be one of the most hilarious things I have ever read here. WF YOU FILTHY LIB!

[StanUpshaw]

Yep. Any idiot off the street can do the job.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y296/atamichimpo/283030_1927906282905_1399640503_31713018_4601179_n .jpg



<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/fZIHE3qYEtE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

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<iframe width="560" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/w_riiXoztMY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

And a personal favorite.

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Congrats....you're Westboro with more annoying accents.

[Zipgun]

Congrats....you're Westboro with more annoying accents.

You're so far off and ridiculous I can't even have a reasonable debate. So you're now just not even part of tthis conversation to me.

[TripleSkeet]

Patriotism and Nationalism no longer have a place in the corporate mindset.

And that, in my opinion, will eventually result in the true downfall of this country. The corporate mindset is the worst thing Ive ever encountered. I dont know how people do it. They would have to pay me millions just to work at a mid-level corporate style 9-5 job.

Snacks, I disagreed with most of what you posted in here, but youre right about one thing, nothing beats working for yourself.

[Zipgun]

You realize this is the goal of every single for profit company ever right? And that earning profit, not revenue is in the best interest of the company?

And you too right, didn't you say you're a stock holder?

Of course profit is the motivation, no denying that. But you make that through your customers by providing excellent service. Not by taking it from your employees.
And when you're already making tens of billions in profit as it is, but also throw in more than an additional billion in a tax rebate while not paying any federal taxes at all, why the need to be greedy for even more from the work force that built your company in the first place? Where is the line drawn when tens of billions of dollars in profit just isn't enough?
And as far as stockholders, some are, some aren't. That's up to the individual. It depends where you place your 401k investments.


Right, you're not working so you don't get benefits from the company who you're not working for. Seems fair to me.
You're missing the point. The scenario he posed was that if I WAS working, I'd have my benefits and I explained that no, we wouldn't even if we were working. Unless we pay into them. I'm not even that opposed to that idea, within reason. As of last talks, our concession for our benefits would be $22,000 a year. Or of course, elect nothing. That is not within reason.

I just got my letter in the mail today explaining that my benefits expire as of 8/31. If I want to go with COBRA, it will cost me $1700 a month. While I am not getting a paycheck at all.


If you're a stock holder you should be getting a proxy vote card every year, shouldn't you? As far as I know you don't need to literally show up to the meeting.

True. And you're right. And I believe I do. But I can only speak for myself. It is unfortunate that the majority of our members likely do not. And that's on us. But also bear in mind that we as stockholders are holding virtually nothing by comparison to the executives.

[Zipgun]

I guess I'm having trouble following this thread because it's the hard-wired division of Verizon that's on strike. Unless you move the properties these guys install to it would be impossible to out source those jobs.

Of course technicians will always be needed in the field. But any call center employee, clerical staff and general office worker's job can easily be shifted anywhere in the world. And without the "hard-wired" part of the facilities, wireless does not work. Wireless depends on land lines. So they're aren't as seperate as they'd like you to believe.


As I understood workers were being asked to contribute more to their benefits packages in lieu of wage freezes and layoffs.

No. We're being asked to contribute to our benefits at the cost of $22,000 a year WHILE getting a wage and pension freeze as well. Not in lieu of.


They can scream all they want but they're hard-wired guys in a virtual world. Verizon is losing a million wired customers a year.

And not each one lost is truly lost. Many are becoming DSL (which is still hard-wired copper) or FiOS. Or they left for a cell phone, which would likely still be VZ. I don't really know where you're going with this "Virtual world". Do fiber optic cables only exist in cyberspace in your mind?



The reality is the world these workers grew up in no longer exists, the why's and wherefor's are another discussion, but for today its either take waht you get or walk.

Again, not really sure what that's supposed to mean. These workers BUILT what you are now referring to as this "new world". So I guess that's the "why's and wherefor's". Whatever that means. One of those things isn't even a word, I don't think.

And the attitude of take what you get or walk is about as equal to being given a shit sandwich and being thankful that you got some bread out of it.

[Zipgun]

:ohmy:

and you are correct. this is a global market its not all about us anymore and we need to understand that. maybe our asshole politicians need to change laws to make it easier to stay here. maybe they need to cut off the loopholes that get these corp to pay no taxes? I think the oil companies who make billions in profits per quarter need to actually pay taxes rather then given a tax credits. We need to create new energy jobs and new tech jobs and get rid of old jobs. Sorry but as technology changes old world jobs will be lost or at least cut back on. Not all union workers are bad but I think so many Americans hate the unions of today because of the public sector unions. I also think many people look at it as in this bad economy anyone walking out on a job is stupid.

Honestly, I don't disagree with the majority of this at all.

I just want to correct you about these "old world" jobs being lost. We're not blacksmiths, we're not barrel hoopers. We're working with the fastest technology out of anyone in the game. Those same technicians in the field, in the central offices monitoring the network, and so on, that were doing your copper service? Yeah, they are handling your fiber optic network as well. I don't know where you thought there was some difference between who did what.

[TripleSkeet]

Again, not really sure what that's supposed to mean. These workers BUILT what you are now referring to as this "new world". So I guess that's the "why's and wherefor's". Whatever that means. One of those things isn't even a word, I don't think.

And the attitude of take what you get or walk is about as equal to being given a shit sandwich and being thankful that you got some bread out of it.

This made me crack the fuck up. I was thinking the same thing. They are talking like Verizon workers are VHS repairmen. You guys realize these arent some jobs that are just dissapearing right? Their work is actually growing, not shrinking. See all these commercials telling people they should switch to FIOS? Who the fuck do you guys think are installing it???

[Rhah]

I want to know what happened to the whole Made in the USA campaign. Oh yeah, that's right, barely anything is anymore. A few brands, maybe, like Zippo or something?

American pride needs to mean something again and companies that show loyalty to their country need to be rewarded by the people of that country.

America is one of the worst countries at protecting its products from foreign imports and does about zero to fight for getting our products exported to other countries. These so-called free trade partners of our economy have tons of protectionist laws for their own goods to help their local economies but when the US tries to do anything like that we are yelled at by the free trade puppets of the right wing party.

So, we are the only country that plays fair to free trade while all other countries write their own laws and have growing national economies.

[disneyspy]

I want to know what happened to the whole Made in the USA campaign.

walmart

[StanUpshaw]

I want to know what happened to the whole Made in the USA campaign.

John Mellencamp stopped getting radio play

[sailor]

walmart

I expected you to point out where we rank in manufacturing.

[disneyspy]

I expected you to point out where we rank in manufacturing.

#1 in manufacturing AND exports!!

[sailor]

#1 in manufacturing AND exports!!

Wha-wha-wha??!?

[Marc with a c]

#1 in manufacturing AND exports!!

why don't they export you?

[PapaBear]

why don't they export you?
Too much red tape involved with antiquities.

[spoon]

Here's an idea - if you want to have a company to provide service in America, you must use American's for service. no more outsourcing to cheap ass countries. I called AOL the other day and was talking to Vijay Singh in the Phillipines. A 2 minute conversation took 30 minutes to happen. Sorry, not the right thread////

Vijay is from Fiji.

[PapaBear]

I knew a Vijay Singh who was from Pakistan. And why would anyone need to call AOL?

[spoon]

True. And you're right. And I believe I do. But I can only speak for myself. It is unfortunate that the majority of our members likely do not. And that's on us. But also bear in mind that we as stockholders are holding virtually nothing by comparison to the executives.

Not to mention proxy votes are so fucking trite and meaningless. You usually get a shot give an up or down vote on the board of directors and various other positions. Go ahead and put no, see what good that does each of your 49 share voices when one regional manager gets 200,000 shares just to come to the company and he's mid-level.

And snacks, really let down by your posts. Scabs are fucking garbage and aren't worth their weight in shit, and these verizon heads seem even less valuable. I think it all comes down to extreme greed, terrible tie to dividends and a lack of responsibility to the very people who made the company what it is today.

Oh and DTV was THE WORST service and setup I ever had in my entire life of bad cable/tv setups. DTV's contracted assholes have no clue, all have their own ideas and no plan of attack. The company then claims it's not them with all the fuck ups and by then I just told them to fuck off and I'll endure cablevision. Too bad Verizon didn't see fit to install Fios lines to my area of NJ. I guess it's bc we don't need those outdated hard lines in this "virtual world" of today right Zorro?

[spoon]

I knew a Vijay Singh who was from Pakistan. And why would anyone need to call AOL?

To get online silly!

[PapaBear]

To get online silly!
But wouldn't you need a phone modem, and some sort of company that provides a non cellular or broadband connection? This is all foreign to me.

[spoon]

But wouldn't you need a phone modem, and some sort of company that provides a non cellular or broadband connection? This is all foreign to me.

Perhaps he wanted advice for his wicked slice?

[CountryBob]

Vijay is from Fiji.

I knew a Vijay Singh who was from Pakistan. And why would anyone need to call AOL?

My email account was hacked the other day and I didnt know what I should do - that's why I called AOL. I also knew a Vijay Singh who was from Chicago....

[TripleSkeet]

And snacks, really let down by your posts. Scabs are fucking garbage and aren't worth their weight in shit, and these verizon heads seem even less valuable. I think it all comes down to extreme greed, terrible tie to dividends and a lack of responsibility to the very people who made the company what it is today.


Oh well Ive had a few arguments with people recently about this and the NFL lockout and apparently, what Ive learned is "The bosses made the company". Yea, it seems the NFL owners made the NFL what it is today and the players should just be grateful the owners are generous enough to pay them what they do to play a game."

Also, these Verizon workers are lucky just to have a job and should shut up and take what they are given, because the big bosses are the ones running the company and make it what it is today.

Peoples attitudes are amazing. A few weeks back while arguing about the NFL lockout I literally had to tell a customer he was a fucking moron. Do they have ANY respect for the hard work people put in to build a company? Or do they really think its as simple as sinking money into a business and watching it grow???

[TeeBone]

I pass a mob of these fuckers everyday on my way to work in Chelmsford, Mass. They have a huge office right off route 3, down the street form my office. They all wear red, walk in circles and hang signs around their necks that read, 'I.B.E.W.'----the elctricians OR my favorite sign----"Verizon=Unfair Business Practices."

If you are that unhappy, are willing to walk in a fucking circle all day and proudly wear a sign around your neck decribing how unfair the company you work for is, then why in the Holly Hell would you want to go back to work there?

Lazy, entitled shit-heads of Mass Unite!!!!

[Tenbatsuzen]

I pass a mob of these fuckers everyday on my way to work in Chelmsford, Mass. They have a huge office right off route 3, down the street form my office. They all wear red, walk in circles and hang signs around their necks that read, 'I.B.E.W.'----the elctricians OR my favorite sign----"Verizon=Unfair Business Practices."

If you are that unhappy, are willing to walk in a fucking circle all day and proudly wear a sign around your neck decribing how unfair the company you work for is, then why in the Holly Hell would you want to go back to work there?

Lazy, entitled shit-heads of Mass Unite!!!!

IBEW is the name of the union. Why exactly do you have a problem with these people identifying who they are and what Union they belong to?

I'll give you an example.

Let's say you like doing your job, and you're good at doing it. You're a skilled worker, and leaving this position would be difficult given the somewhat monopoly Verizon has on wiring. You agreed, when you took your job, to have a certain level of benefits.

Now, a few years later, they tell you that they want you to pay an EXORBITANT amount of money to cover your health insurance. Benefits that your union negotiated for.

How exactly is that fair?

I'm not a huge union guy by any stretch of the imagination but the concessions Verizon wants are insane.

[underdog]

I pass a mob of these fuckers everyday on my way to work in Chelmsford, Mass. They have a huge office right off route 3, down the street form my office. They all wear red, walk in circles and hang signs around their necks that read, 'I.B.E.W.'----the elctricians OR my favorite sign----"Verizon=Unfair Business Practices."

If you are that unhappy, are willing to walk in a fucking circle all day and proudly wear a sign around your neck decribing how unfair the company you work for is, then why in the Holly Hell would you want to go back to work there?

Lazy, entitled shit-heads of Mass Unite!!!!

I'm constantly reminded of how shitty massachusetts is when you leave the city.

[TripleSkeet]

IBEW is the name of the union. Why exactly do you have a problem with these people identifying who they are and what Union they belong to?

I'll give you an example.

Let's say you like doing your job, and you're good at doing it. You're a skilled worker, and leaving this position would be difficult given the somewhat monopoly Verizon has on wiring. You agreed, when you took your job, to have a certain level of benefits.

Now, a few years later, they tell you that they want you to pay an EXORBITANT amount of money to cover your health insurance. Benefits that your union negotiated for.

How exactly is that fair?

I'm not a huge union guy by any stretch of the imagination but the concessions Verizon wants are insane.

Oh didnt you know? Contracts only have to be honored by the employees. When the employee wants to renegotiate the contract, they are greedy assholes, but when the bosses want to do it, they are just being businessmen.

[Tenbatsuzen]

Oh didnt you know? Contracts only have to be honored by the employees. When the employee wants to renegotiate the contract, they are greedy assholes, but when the bosses want to do it, they are just being businessmen.

I'm still shaking my head over the idiocy of this and how simple the concession Christie wanted from the teachers.

[Zipgun]

I pass a mob of these fuckers everyday on my way to work in Chelmsford, Mass. They have a huge office right off route 3, down the street form my office. They all wear red, walk in circles and hang signs around their necks that read, 'I.B.E.W.'----the elctricians OR my favorite sign----"Verizon=Unfair Business Practices."

Outstanding. That's a terrific showing of our brotherhood.



If you are that unhappy, are willing to walk in a fucking circle all day and proudly wear a sign around your neck decribing how unfair the company you work for is, then why in the Holly Hell would you want to go back to work there?

Because we take pride in our work. We have built careers over decades. We had an acceptable contract. What we want is to go back with that contract and not go back to a contract that demands we lose our pension, lose any wage adjustments for the cost of living, lose our benefits, have managers have more rights to fire us for whatever reason they want and a laundry list of other concessions.


Lazy, entitled shit-heads of Mass Unite!!!!

Yeah, men and women that deal with climbing poles, installing cable, handling voltage, going down manholes knee deep in water and rats, getting numerous wasp stings when opening crossboxes, opening panels in inner cities and being overrun by cockroaches or going into dangerous neighborhoods and getting robbed or shot, in blistering heat or freezing rain, all while being forced after their regular day or on their day off to come in to work making their work week 60 hours long or longer while having to ignore the obligations of family or their otherwise free time because of the "needs of the business" all so YOUR service is working sure are a bunch of do-nothing assholes.

Not like all that back breaking labor you do every day in your office in Chelmsford, I'm sure.

[foodcourtdruide]

Oh well Ive had a few arguments with people recently about this and the NFL lockout and apparently, what Ive learned is "The bosses made the company". Yea, it seems the NFL owners made the NFL what it is today and the players should just be grateful the owners are generous enough to pay them what they do to play a game."

Also, these Verizon workers are lucky just to have a job and should shut up and take what they are given, because the big bosses are the ones running the company and make it what it is today.

Peoples attitudes are amazing. A few weeks back while arguing about the NFL lockout I literally had to tell a customer he was a fucking moron. Do they have ANY respect for the hard work people put in to build a company? Or do they really think its as simple as sinking money into a business and watching it grow???

I don't understand how any working person can be OK with what Verizon is doing. The fact that they made extremely high profits that were pocketed by executives, and now they are cost-cutting on the backs of their labor force scares the SHIT out of me as a middle class worker. Don't they see that Verizon can set a precedence for all companies in their position to do the same thing? It's mind-boggling to me how the lower and middle classes can support this.

[Zipgun]

I don't understand how any working person can be OK with what Verizon is doing. The fact that they made extremely high profits that were pocketed by executives, and now they are cost-cutting on the backs of their labor force scares the SHIT out of me as a middle class worker. Don't they see that Verizon can set a precedence for all companies in their position to do the same thing? It's mind-boggling to me how the lower and middle classes can support this.

100%

It's knee-jerk reaction. People do not see the big picture. Union or not, they'll come for them next and then they'll change their thinking.

Verizon has recently hired mercenary group Blackwater. Yes, THAT Blackwater, as security. LITERALLY gearing up to wage war on the middle class.

[Rhah]

Yeah, lets get rid of Unions. Also have fun working weekends and more than 40 hours a week for no overtime you ignorant rubes. Idiots.

[TripleSkeet]

I don't understand how any working person can be OK with what Verizon is doing. The fact that they made extremely high profits that were pocketed by executives, and now they are cost-cutting on the backs of their labor force scares the SHIT out of me as a middle class worker. Don't they see that Verizon can set a precedence for all companies in their position to do the same thing? It's mind-boggling to me how the lower and middle classes can support this.

Well I figure out how and why this asshole I was arguing with felt the way he did the next week when I saw him. Turns out he owns his own business, feels he should be able to do and say whatever he wants to his workers and if they dont like it they can walk. I asked how many of his employees were Mexicans that he was paying shit wages and he shut up. Then I told him the reason he has to get them is because if he hired Americans and talked to them that way theyd either tell him to go fuck himself or beat the shit out of him. The old fuck got pissed and walked out.

[newport king]

http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/video?id=8311812


there u go verizon. well done. out of service 10 days, 3 visits by a couple scabs, they couldn't figure it out, now she's dead. bravo. and verizon's statement is there was a "broken cable"...no there wasn't that doesnt cause static. the sad thing is, me or someone just as qualified as me would have had her in service within 24 hours.

[Dude!]

http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/video?id=8311812the sad thing is, me or someone just as qualified as me would have had her in service within 24 hours.

right...except you were on strike
and refused to do your job

so you killed her

[Zipgun]

http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/video?id=8311812


there u go verizon. well done. out of service 10 days, 3 visits by a couple scabs, they couldn't figure it out, now she's dead. bravo. and verizon's statement is there was a "broken cable"...no there wasn't that doesnt cause static. the sad thing is, me or someone just as qualified as me would have had her in service within 24 hours.

Nah, it's residential copper. It still would have been at least a week for VCS to fail it to cable, then have a splicer no access it and then have the inside boss have someone scrub the job out as test ok, trouble to cpe.

[Zipgun]

right...except you were on strike
and refused to do your job

so you killed her

Please. Adults are talking.

[Dude!]

Please. Adults are talking.

i've seen no evidence of that

[Zipgun]

i've seen no evidence of that

That's because you're a barely functioning retard that can't even put a post together like a person.

[newport king]

right...except you were on strike
and refused to do your job

so you killed her

nope. verizon has awesome contingency workers who are more than capable of handling this situation and are meeting the demands of their customers. just ask this lady. oh thats right, u can't she's dead.

i'm tired of trying to sway people's opinions on this. either you're for or against it, depending on where your political agenda lies.

i'm not one for politics but common sense has to kick in at some point.

[Dude!]

That's because you're a barely functioning retard that can't even put a post together like a person.

at least i have a job

[newport king]

at least i have a job

so i guess you're just a real piece of shit.

[Misteriosa]

can we not have personal attack please?

thaaaaaaaanks.

[Zipgun]

at least i have a job

Are you really looking to have an actual educated debate during this? Or is it just your typical mode of being an asshole contrarian? Because you've really had nothing worth contributing. If you want to take part, no problem, but then actually have something to debate with. Otherwise, I really don't have any interest in you.

[TeeBone]

IBEW is the name of the union. .

I believe I stated that in my post.....I get the fact they are electricians.....My beef was with the, 'Verizon= Unfair' people.

[TeeBone]

Not like all that back breaking labor you do every day in your office in Chelmsford, I'm sure.

You have no idea how hard I had to work to get where I am. Cut grass, dug ditches (seriously), worked hard and finally was able to earn a degree. All the while, working my way up and NOT bitching and moaning along the way. If you CAN work, you SHOULD work. Especially today, walking in a circle complaining about your employer with the hopes of once again working there is simply odd to me. I never took a hand out or complained because life is about a series of choices. If you choose to work in a hole and get attacked by wasps----that's your choice. Why bitch about it? Do something else. Mass is filled with all the trappings of laziness and lack of self-worth.

[Zipgun]

You have no idea how hard I had to work to get where I am. Cut grass, dug ditches (seriously), worked hard and finally was able to earn a degree. All the while, working my way up and NOT bitching and moaning along the way. If you CAN work, you SHOULD work. Especially today, walking in a circle complaining about your employer with the hopes of once again working there is simply odd to me. I never took a hand out or complained because life is about a series of choices. If you choose to work in a hole and get attacked by wasps----that's your choice. Why bitch about it? Do something else. Mass is filled with all the trappings of laziness and lack of self-worth.

Ok, so after you did all that to get to where you are and built a career and started a family, someone tells you that you have to start all over again with nothing and there will be next to nothing for you in the future. Of course, you have the option to pursue a career elsewhere, again, starting from nothing. Or, you can have a union behind you that can fight for your rights and work towards getting you back to where you worked hard to get.

Good for you if you're the type that's going to just go along with whatever shit hand you're dealt. I'd rather have someone that has my back in trying to fight for what I worked hard for.

And even in times before the strike, my union fights for my rights. They keep bosses from firing people for unjust reasons, fight to get backpay for undeserved suspensions, ensure we have a voice when it comes to grievances and offers countless other resources for it's members.

[underdog]

You have no idea how hard I had to work to get where I am. Cut grass, dug ditches (seriously), worked hard and finally was able to earn a degree. All the while, working my way up and NOT bitching and moaning along the way. If you CAN work, you SHOULD work. Especially today, walking in a circle complaining about your employer with the hopes of once again working there is simply odd to me. I never took a hand out or complained because life is about a series of choices. If you choose to work in a hole and get attacked by wasps----that's your choice. Why bitch about it? Do something else. Mass is filled with all the trappings of laziness and lack of self-worth.

I'm from Massachusetts. I've done virtually nothing, yet I keep getting promoted. I'm as lazy as a person could be. Now I live in Manhattan and live like a rock star.

Good job on all that hard work.

[Snacks]

AT the end of the day Union or not, shouldnt we all agree that our politicians should be doing what unions do but for free? We pay politicians to represent us and do whats best for the masses. shouldnt they be making sure we all make living wages, get raises, benefits, safe working environments. etc?

I just dont understand why politicians dont fight for us all?

[Dude!]

I just dont understand why politicians dont fight for us all?

i don't want them fighting for me
i want them to leave me alone

[Snacks]

i don't want them fighting for me
i want them to leave me alone

so then what do all taxpayers pay them for?

[Zipgun]

i don't want them fighting for me
i want them to leave me alone

When you become eligible for Social Security, be sure and tell them "No thanks".

[Dude!]

i will gladly say no thanks
when they stop taking 6÷%
from me, matched by my employer

[CountryBob]

The mining industry used to be run by the unions but over the years the laws that have been created and an overall change in management from the owners has made the UMWA almost obsolete.

A few of my companies mines were union but the one I worked for wasn't. We would get some new employees coming from a union mine and after they worked for us for a while, they would admit that they enjoyed non union wages, bonuses perks that we gave to keep the unions out over what they had being represented.

But, what Zipgun is describing seems to me that a union is valuable in this situation - bringing together all of the individual voices to fight for what they believe in. I am in HR and was very shocked at what they are doing to the employee benefits - while making massive proffits. That is just wrong and I would like to read about what the corporation says the reason for this would be.

[epo]

I pass a mob of these fuckers everyday on my way to work in Chelmsford, Mass. They have a huge office right off route 3, down the street form my office. They all wear red, walk in circles and hang signs around their necks that read, 'I.B.E.W.'----the elctricians OR my favorite sign----"Verizon=Unfair Business Practices."

If you are that unhappy, are willing to walk in a fucking circle all day and proudly wear a sign around your neck decribing how unfair the company you work for is, then why in the Holly Hell would you want to go back to work there?

Lazy, entitled shit-heads of Mass Unite!!!!

I'm so fucking tired of right-wing, anti-union ignorant bullshit. Some hard-working union brother or sister, who has devoted their career to some company with the promise of a decent wage, average benefits and a sliver of a retirement benefit....suddenly is a "lazy entitled shithead" because they don't wanna get fucked in the ass.

The irony is that in this country we have the argument all wrong. It isn't the right-leaning workers vs. the left-leaning workers, or the union brothers vs. the non-union workers....its workers vs the elites.

The rich in this country are stripmining the fuck out of our resources, our people and our future & the workers are bickering about the crumbs to their delight.

[Jujubees2]

AT the end of the day Union or not, shouldnt we all agree that our politicians should be doing what unions do but for free? We pay politicians to represent us and do whats best for the masses. shouldnt they be making sure we all make living wages, get raises, benefits, safe working environments. etc?

I just dont understand why politicians dont fight for us all?

Because most of their campaign contributions come from the corporations. And it will be even worse now that the Supreme Court ruled that the corporations can give unlimited amounts to candidates.

[Zipgun]

Because most of their campaign contributions come from the corporations. And it will be even worse now that the Supreme Court ruled that the corporations can give unlimited amounts to candidates.

And corporations that do business with each other are no different. Which is why you see virtually nothing about the strike in the media. A news organization isn't going to report on the strike in a negative way towards Verizon, because they're a sponsor. They report something pro-union, Verizon pulls their ads. Watch your nightly news and you won't see a thing, but you'll see a FiOS commercial or a wireless commercial with no problem.

You won't hear the news reports of a manager hitting a picketing technician with his truck while crossing a picket line. You won't hear the story about how TWO of my coworkers being hit by a customer crossing a picket line to get into my building, which isn't even a customer location, and having the Verizon-hired Toms River Twp. Police Dept. let the man go without charging him with a hit and run. Or the other manager from our building that ran over another picketing technician's foot while crosssing (she's at last being charged with assault). Or the manager in CT that grabbed a picketer and slammed his head into a brick wall.

[Earlshog]

I'm so fucking tired of right-wing, anti-union ignorant bullshit. Some hard-working union brother or sister, who has devoted their career to some company with the promise of a decent wage, average benefits and a sliver of a retirement benefit....suddenly is a "lazy entitled shithead" because they don't wanna get fucked in the ass.

The irony is that in this country we have the argument all wrong. It isn't the right-leaning workers vs. the left-leaning workers, or the union brothers vs. the non-union workers....its workers vs the elites.

The rich in this country are stripmining the fuck out of our resources, our people and our future & the workers are bickering about the crumbs to their delight.

socialist commie! :wink:

[Dude!]

I'm so fucking tired of right-wing, anti-union ignorant bullshit. Some hard-working union brother or sister, who has devoted their career to some company with the promise of a decent wage, average benefits and a sliver of a retirement benefit....suddenly is a "lazy entitled shithead" because they don't wanna get fucked in the ass.

The irony is that in this country we have the argument all wrong. It isn't the right-leaning workers vs. the left-leaning workers, or the union brothers vs. the non-union workers....its workers vs the elites.

The rich in this country are stripmining the fuck out of our resources, our people and our future & the workers are bickering about the crumbs to their delight.

hey epo, i read that the
teacher's union in Wisconsin
just layed off 40% of its employees
because they spent millions
trying to unseat Alberta Darling

42 people would still have their jobs
if the greedy, idiotic union hadn't flushed
their members' dues down the drain

nice work

[epo]

hey epo, i read that the
teacher's union in Wisconsin
just layed off 40% of its employees
because they spent millions
trying to unseat Alberta Darling

42 people would still have their jobs
if the greedy, idiotic union hadn't flushed
their members' dues down the drain

nice work

Really? That's your conclusion? Its nice that you can obey the elite right-wing's talking points about organized labor.

Why don't you just admit that you'd rather stand up for corporations rather than working people?

[Zipgun]

Why don't you just admit that you'd rather stand up for corporations rather than working AMERICAN people?

Fixed that for ya.

I'm sure he'd have no problem with people working in India or the Phillippines doing our jobs.

[epo]

Fixed that for ya.

I'm sure he'd have no problem with people working in India or the Phillippines doing our jobs.

I'm a lucky guy. I went to college, post-graduate work and work in my field of study. I've got a professional, non-union office job, which has a good compensation & benefits package.

But the thing I still remember is that unionized working people make that compensation possible. When we have a strong middle class, it drives our economy. When unions pressure organizations to strengthen their compensation, it helps raise standards in the marketplace.

I know that I stand on the floor for compensation that unions have created. I thank them everyday for what they've done for me.

[TripleSkeet]

hey epo, i read that the
teacher's union in Wisconsin
just layed off 40% of its employees
because they spent millions
trying to unseat Alberta Darling

42 people would still have their jobs
if the greedy, idiotic union hadn't flushed
their members' dues down the drain

nice work

Theres only 105 teachers in the state of Wisconsin?

[Tenbatsuzen]

The rich in this country are stripmining the fuck out of our resources, our people and our future & the workers are bickering about the crumbs to their delight.

The same could be said for the NJEA and educational administrators in the state of NJ.

Unions work if they are fair and not abusive.

Personally, I don't think government and unions should mix. That's the main problem.

[epo]

Personally, I don't think government and unions should mix. That's the main problem.

I agree.

State run unions are un-American.

[spoon]

hey epo, i read that the
teacher's union in Wisconsin
just layed off 40% of its employees
because they spent millions
trying to unseat Alberta Darling

42 people would still have their jobs
if the greedy, idiotic union hadn't flushed
their members' dues down the drain

nice work

The idiocy of your style of posting is only trumped by it's content.

[disneyspy]

The idiocy of your style of posting is only trumped by it's content.

when did you become such an ass kisser?

[Dude!]

The idiocy of your style of posting is only trumped by it's content.

why don't you share
some of your excess income
with the poor strikers?

you're always bragging about
making over $200,000 per year

[MIKEYDAKEN]

so is everyone happy to go back to work?
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2011/08/20/2011-08-20_verizon_workers_decide_to_end_strike_without_a_ contract_was_nations_largest_walk.html

[TripleSkeet]

They still have to work out a new contract, but I think this was a victory for the union. I think Verizon realized without those 45,000 workers they were pretty fucked.

[epo]

They still have to work out a new contract, but I think this was a victory for the union. I think Verizon realized without those 45,000 workers they were pretty fucked.

Which is the exact point of having a union. Individually, these workers would've had to accept whatever management wanted them to accept.

Standing together, they were able to negotiate as a whole. Good for them for standing up.

[spoon]

Hoping for the best possible outcome for the V workers here.

[disneyspy]

Hoping for the best possible outcome for the V workers here.

thanks,oh you meant the verizon guys,nevermind

[Zipgun]

Which is the exact point of having a union. Individually, these workers would've had to accept whatever management wanted them to accept.

Standing together, they were able to negotiate as a whole. Good for them for standing up.

Absolutely. And we're not done fighting, but at least we'll be back to earning a living. We're still going to lose some things that we don't want to. You ALWAYS get cuts in a negotiation. It's just a matter of stopping the bleeding.

But it just shows, don't just fucking take the ass raping that is going to be handed to you. Whittle it down to a hand job. It still sucks, but it's something you can live with.

[Bob Impact]

But it just shows, don't just fucking take the ass raping that is going to be handed to you. Whittle it down to a hand job. It still sucks, but it's something you can live with.

And here ladies and gentlemen, is the logical end of all collectivist thought.

[cougarjake13]

And here ladies and gentlemen, is the logical end of all collectivist thought.

id prefer a hand job to an ass raping

[TeeBone]

It isn't the right-leaning workers vs. the left-leaning workers, or the union brothers vs. the non-union workers....its workers vs the elites.
I'm going to guess that you have no money, live in a basement and complain constantly about this....Just a guess I know but if you keep waiting for a handout and someone to do it for you, you will never be rich and have all the things you want. Idiots that say money can't buy you happiness have obviously never been poor and then made money. Happiness--maybe not, but it certainly helps take your mind off things and you will have less worries overall.
Get off you pussy ass and get to work! Stop reciting all the left-wing talking point bullshit you hear on MSNBC.

[foodcourtdruide]

I'm going to guess that you have no money, live in a basement and complain constantly about this....Just a guess I know but if you keep waiting for a handout and someone to do it for you, you will never be rich and have all the things you want. Idiots that say money can't buy you happiness have obviously never been poor and then made money. Happiness--maybe not, but it certainly helps take your mind off things and you will have less worries overall.
Get off you pussy ass and get to work! Stop reciting all the left-wing talking point bullshit you hear on MSNBC.

I really don't understand this post at all. How old are you, TeeBone?

[pennington]

http://www.northjersey.com/news/business/Verizon_workers_going_back_to_work_without_deal.ht ml

I've been following this but don't have a dog in the race. I noticed the following quote in the above article:

“Our success was based on our strength and unity and rallying the country on our behalf,” said Huber. “The company tried an attack on middle class Americans and they lost.”

Not to be argumentative but how did Verizon lose? They got their employees back without giving up anything and they saved money by not paying strikers' wages. Any backlog in repairs will get caught up.

I was talking to my mailman yesterday, a union member himself, and he said one of his neighbors works for Verizon. When a Verizon repair truck was working on his street, the striking guy that worked for Verizon (and his wife) came out and were making such a scene that another neighbor called the police. To me this doesn't seem to be the way to get people on your side.

That "attack on the middle class" line hasn't worked for years. And showing up at an executive's house to harass his family? It's a chickenshit move and they probably lose more public support than they gain.

It seems that the union has come out of this weaker than when they went into it.

[Zipgun]

I'm going to guess that you have no money, live in a basement and complain constantly about this....Just a guess I know but if you keep waiting for a handout and someone to do it for you, you will never be rich and have all the things you want. Idiots that say money can't buy you happiness have obviously never been poor and then made money. Happiness--maybe not, but it certainly helps take your mind off things and you will have less worries overall.
Get off you pussy ass and get to work! Stop reciting all the left-wing talking point bullshit you hear on MSNBC.

This may be the stupidest post in this thread of all. Who ever said anything about anyone looking for handouts? I guess you don't realize we're talking about people that WANT to work.

You talk about reciting left-wing talking points and MSNBC but meanwhile, this entire post sounds like you had Bill O'Reilly write it for you.

[Dude!]

I'm going to guess that you have no money, live in a basement and complain constantly about this....Just a guess I know but if you keep waiting for a handout and someone to do it for you, you will never be rich and have all the things you want. Idiots that say money can't buy you happiness have obviously never been poor and then made money. Happiness--maybe not, but it certainly helps take your mind off things and you will have less worries overall.
Get off you pussy ass and get to work! Stop reciting all the left-wing talking point bullshit you hear on MSNBC.

you are wrong about epo
he has a high-paid job
working for a greedy non-union
'health care' company
in an industry that rips-off
the taxpayers in a big way

he is not poor, just a hypocrite

[Zipgun]

Not to be argumentative but how did Verizon lose? They got their employees back without giving up anything and they saved money by not paying strikers' wages. Any backlog in repairs will get caught up.

Not exactly. We are going back to work, but under the previous contract we had. There's still the new contract to be worked out, so it's not over. Generally, they spend more money for contingent workers than they do for union workers. Plus the hiring of local police departments as security paying them premium OT. Tack on the amount of customers that they lost. They took a pretty decent financial hit. With that said, they STILL made a profit. Which just helps to illustrate our point that they make billions upon billions in profit, on top of revenue, and we see no reason to make us give them even more money out of our pockets, as well. They could have held out long enough to bankrupt the union financially, but their management force couldn't hold up. They can pay contingent workers and go through them and use them up, but the managers that they need to keep are burnt out from working 100 hour weeks. Add to that also the severe weather that came through. That was one of the biggest helps of all. And those contingent workers are also not really capable of truly fixing the network. They can patch things up and band-aid things all they want, but our guys are going to have a shitload of cleanup to do when we go back.



I was talking to my mailman yesterday, a union member himself, and he said one of his neighbors works for Verizon. When a Verizon repair truck was working on his street, the striking guy that worked for Verizon (and his wife) came out and were making such a scene that another neighbor called the police. To me this doesn't seem to be the way to get people on your side.


I don't disagree. I'm not a fan of those tactics. I mean, give a scab hell all you want, but never do it around customers. They're not our enemy, we need them for support and for their bills. But there's always misguided people along with the good.



It seems that the union has come out of this weaker than when they went into it.

That remains to be seen yet. It depends on what they settle for.

[epo]

I'm going to guess that you have no money, live in a basement and complain constantly about this....Just a guess I know but if you keep waiting for a handout and someone to do it for you, you will never be rich and have all the things you want. Idiots that say money can't buy you happiness have obviously never been poor and then made money. Happiness--maybe not, but it certainly helps take your mind off things and you will have less worries overall.
Get off you pussy ass and get to work! Stop reciting all the left-wing talking point bullshit you hear on MSNBC.

Personal attacks rather than discussing the topic at hand.

How boring.

[StanUpshaw]

I don't disagree. I'm not a fan of those tactics. I mean, give a scab hell all you want, but never do it around customers.

Or post it on youtube?

[Bob Impact]

Not exactly. We are going back to work, but under the previous contract we had. There's still the new contract to be worked out, so it's not over. Generally, they spend more money for contingent workers than they do for union workers. Plus the hiring of local police departments as security paying them premium OT. Tack on the amount of customers that they lost. They took a pretty decent financial hit. With that said, they STILL made a profit. Which just helps to illustrate our point that they make billions upon billions in profit, on top of revenue, and we see no reason to make us give them even more money out of our pockets, as well. They could have held out long enough to bankrupt the union financially, but their management force couldn't hold up. They can pay contingent workers and go through them and use them up, but the managers that they need to keep are burnt out from working 100 hour weeks. Add to that also the severe weather that came through. That was one of the biggest helps of all. And those contingent workers are also not really capable of truly fixing the network. They can patch things up and band-aid things all they want, but our guys are going to have a shitload of cleanup to do when we go back.

I'll preface this by saying that I'm not trying to go after you but to understand... Here's (in my mind) what you got: 2 less weeks of pay, management that was borderline hostile (based on your previous posts) who is now annoyed with you, a mess to clean up from replacement workers and the existing contract for at least a little while longer. What exactly did the union accomplish outside of keeping the status quo and making life harder for you?

[Zipgun]

Or post it on youtube?

Eh, it's a fine line, I guess.

[Snacks]

I'll preface this by saying that I'm not trying to go after you but to understand... Here's (in my mind) what you got: 2 less weeks of pay, management that was borderline hostile (based on your previous posts) who is now annoyed with you, a mess to clean up from replacement workers and the existing contract for at least a little while longer. What exactly did the union accomplish outside of keeping the status quo and making life harder for you?

Union dues?

[StanUpshaw]

It's another month under the prior, acceptable contract, right?




And then the handjob (probably with some kissing and nipple play).

[Zipgun]

I'll preface this by saying that I'm not trying to go after you but to understand... Here's (in my mind) what you got: 2 less weeks of pay, management that was borderline hostile (based on your previous posts) who is now annoyed with you, a mess to clean up from replacement workers and the existing contract for at least a little while longer. What exactly did the union accomplish outside of keeping the status quo and making life harder for you?

I said that remains to be seen, we still don't have our new contract. It's entirely possible we go back to a shitty deal that our union settled for. The management team was hostile before, and they'll be hostile after. But they're running scared for their own jobs when this is all over. There will be a management rif. And when this is over, a lot of them will get a handshake, a thank you and a you're fired. And they don't have a union they can have fight for their job. As far as the mess that we're going to clean up, that just means making back the money we lost, and then some, in overtime.

[Zipgun]

Union dues?

The union doesn't collect dues while we strike.

[Zipgun]

It's another month under the prior, acceptable contract, right?


There's not really a specific date set, as far as I know.




And then the handjob (probably with some kissing and nipple play).

Kissing will not happen.

[Kevin]

I said that remains to be seen, we still don't have our new contract. It's entirely possible we go back to a shitty deal that our union settled for. The management team was hostile before, and they'll be hostile after. But they're running scared for their own jobs when this is all over. There will be a management rif. And when this is over, a lot of them will get a handshake, a thank you and a you're fired. And they don't have a union they can have fight for their job. As far as the mess that we're going to clean up, that just means making back the money we lost, and then some, in overtime.

Why is management getting fired considered somewhat of a win for you guys?

They are just going to bring in the same kind of douches to manage.

If you do not get a better deal out of this then its a terrible for everyone involved.

Every union delagate should be fired.

You should have been prepared for more than a 2 week strike.

When my Union have strikes (32BJ) They usually get most of what they want.

[StanUpshaw]

Do union delegates have unions?

[Snacks]

The union doesn't collect dues while we strike.

yeah but they do now, thats my point and the answer to the question asked (What exactly did the union accomplish outside of keeping the status quo and making life harder for you?) Answer Union Dues!!! Maybe I should have said they continue to get Union Dues (for nothing gained)

So they got you to strike, miss 2 weeks of pay, your old contract back while they figure out what you will lose and in return they still get their dues!

[Zipgun]

Why is management getting fired considered somewhat of a win for you guys?

They are just going to bring in the same kind of douches to manage.

I never said that management getting fired was a win.


If you do not get a better deal out of this then its a terrible for everyone involved.

Every union delagate should be fired.


As I said, we WILL make concessions and lose some of what we already have. That happens in every contract. It's just a matter of containing your losses and picking what you're willing to let go of in order to keep what's important. That's why it's called negotiating. Have you even read this thread at all? And why should they all be fired? Based on your logic, they'd just be replaced by people equal to them anyway. And they're mainly elected or accept the position when no one else will, so the only people that would fire them would be Verizon.



You should have been prepared for more than a 2 week strike.


I did, as many of us did. I worked 20 hours of overtime a week to build up my bank account and made cutbacks in my spending. Many people scheduled their vacation time during August. Historically, you'd still be paid if you had pre-scheduled vacation time, but the company cancelled everyone's vacations which they'd not done previously. So even with preparations, you can still get screwed.



When my Union have strikes (32BJ) They usually get most of what they want.

By the way, thanks for standing by us in solidarity as your union has asked you to do.

[Kevin]

I never said that management getting fired was a win.



As I said, we WILL make concessions and lose some of what we already have. That happens in every contract. It's just a matter of containing your losses and picking what you're willing to let go of in order to keep what's important. That's why it's called negotiating. Have you even read this thread at all? And why should they all be fired? Based on your logic, they'd just be replaced by people equal to them anyway. And they're mainly elected or accept the position when no one else will, so the only people that would fire them would be Verizon.




I did, as many of us did. I worked 20 hours of overtime a week to build up my bank account and made cutbacks in my spending. Many people scheduled their vacation time during August. Historically, you'd still be paid if you had pre-scheduled vacation time, but the company cancelled everyone's vacations which they'd not done previously. So even with preparations, you can still get screwed.



By the way, thanks for standing by us in solidarity as your union has asked you to do.

I wasn't trying to be a dick or anything like that.

I just do not agree with the going back to work before a deal.

It shows weakness.

I hope it works out for the best for you guys.

[Zipgun]

yeah but they do now, thats my point and the answer to the question asked (What exactly did the union accomplish outside of keeping the status quo and making life harder for you?) Answer Union Dues!!! Maybe I should have said they continue to get Union Dues (for nothing gained)

So they got you to strike, miss 2 weeks of pay, your old contract back while they figure out what you will lose and in return they still get their dues!

The union PUT us back to work. We are going to be making a living. If that means getting my paycheck and benefits while they work this out, that's a good thing. That's our union bargaining with Verizon in good faith. Which is what Verizon has yet to do with the union.

You do realize that dues pay for us to continue to have the union work for us, right? Do you think it runs itself for free? If we don't pay dues, the company bankrupts the union, and then we get nothing. I don't think you really know how things work.

[Zipgun]

I wasn't trying to be a dick or anything like that.

I just do not agree with the going back to work before a deal.

It shows weakness.

I hope it works out for the best for you guys.

Thank you, I appreciate that.

[Snacks]

The union PUT us back to work. We are going to be making a living. If that means getting my paycheck and benefits while they work this out, that's a good thing. That's our union bargaining with Verizon in good faith. Which is what Verizon has yet to do with the union.

You do realize that dues pay for us to continue to have the union work for us, right? Do you think it runs itself for free? If we don't pay dues, the company bankrupts the union, and then we get nothing. I don't think you really know how things work.

that same union made you go on strike and made you no money for those 2 weeks. if you are happy paying those dues, good for you! i hope you guys get everything you ask for, as long as my fios doesnt go up!

[Kevin]

that same union made you go on strike and made you no money for those 2 weeks. if you are happy paying those dues, good for you! i hope you guys get everything you ask for, as long as my fios doesnt go up!

Your Fios is going up regardless.

[Snacks]

Your Fios is going up regardless.

thats the problem these things seem to go up for no reason. everything else goes down but tv, internet etc seems to go up.

[Zipgun]

that same union made you go on strike and made you no money for those 2 weeks. if you are happy paying those dues, good for you! i hope you guys get everything you ask for, as long as my fios doesnt go up!

THE UNION WENT ON STRIKE TO SHOW THE COMPANY THAT WE'RE SERIOUS ABOUT NOT TAKING WHAT THEY WERE DEMANDING!

ARE YOU LEGALLY FUCKING RETARDED?

YOU STUPID FUCK.


Seriously, I can't even have this discussion with you anymore. The same fucking morons going around and around like you're not even reading anything. Go ahead. Worship corporations that don't give the slightest fuck about you or any other American worker. Take their side. Up with billionaires! Fuck anyone else trying to make a living. Let them ship jobs from Americans to sweatshop conditions in foreign countries. Let them pay people virtually nothing and starve their families while they take a private jet just to cash a check for millions upon millions in bonuses. Fuck anyone else. You seriously have to have a debilitating mental illness to take up the argument that the corporations are the victim. And all you're worried about is your FiOS bill going up? Oh it will. Because the CORPORATION needs to keep feeding, you fucking moron. Who the fuck do you think it is that made that shit even fucking work in the first place? The same people you're calling lazy and greedy. Yeah, we're greedy. Because WE'RE the ones that made billions upon billions in profit and WE'RE the ones trying to squeeze every last dime out of the company. You're seriously fucking moronic.


And fuck any rules about personal attacks. He's a fucking douche and a moron that calls his mommy and makes her cry with stupid shit. You all know it. Go ahead and ban me if you want, I really don't care.

[epo]

that same union made you go on strike and made you no money for those 2 weeks. if you are happy paying those dues, good for you! i hope you guys get everything you ask for, as long as my fios doesnt go up!

No offense intended, but do you understand the point of a union?

[Dude!]

He's a fucking douche and a moron that calls his mommy and makes her cry with stupid shit.

Snacks hates his mom
because she belongs to a union

[Kevin]

No offense intended, but do you understand the point of a union?


I sensed a little offense there...

[Snacks]

THE UNION WENT ON STRIKE TO SHOW THE COMPANY THAT WE'RE SERIOUS ABOUT NOT TAKING WHAT THEY WERE DEMANDING!

ARE YOU LEGALLY FUCKING RETARDED?

YOU STUPID FUCK.


Seriously, I can't even have this discussion with you anymore. The same fucking morons going around and around like you're not even reading anything. Go ahead. Worship corporations that don't give the slightest fuck about you or any other American worker. Take their side. Up with billionaires! Fuck anyone else trying to make a living. Let them ship jobs from Americans to sweatshop conditions in foreign countries. Let them pay people virtually nothing and starve their families while they take a private jet just to cash a check for millions upon millions in bonuses. Fuck anyone else. You seriously have to have a debilitating mental illness to take up the argument that the corporations are the victim. And all you're worried about is your FiOS bill going up? Oh it will. Because the CORPORATION needs to keep feeding, you fucking moron. Who the fuck do you think it is that made that shit even fucking work in the first place? The same people you're calling lazy and greedy. Yeah, we're greedy. Because WE'RE the ones that made billions upon billions in profit and WE'RE the ones trying to squeeze every last dime out of the company. You're seriously fucking moronic.


And fuck any rules about personal attacks. He's a fucking douche and a moron that calls his mommy and makes her cry with stupid shit. You all know it. Go ahead and ban me if you want, I really don't care.

i love this argument about jobs going over seas verizon has said that time and time again. yet these jobs arent going to go overseas because if we truly need poll workers and installers then i doubt that will be done by anyone in china, unless they ship those workers here.

I have read everything you wrote and dont agree with it. you are the piece of shit who worships a union thats fine but we dont have to agree. Im all for the workers rights, but companies have a right to make money you seem to feel that they need to only do what you want them to do and they cant decide to make changes. thats why there are workers and their are bosses. if you want to be a boss start your own business and see how it is. im so tired of people crying about how much the corp executives make but when people complain about others being overpaid that are in unions they are wrong?

i said i hope you get what you want but im not paying anymore for it. why would i be happy to pay more and more for you? what do you do for me nothing so go fuck yourself and go pay for whatever you lose yourself!

[epo]

I sensed a little offense there...

Actually I don't. There is a very large percentage of people who have no grasp of the history or the mission of a labor union.

[Snacks]

Snacks hates his mom
because she belongs to a union

my mom hates unions im actually the only dem in the family but i dont follow party lines on everything. im fo avg joe citizen but when people bitch and moan about being owned something it turns me off. i have no problem with people fighting what they deserve but also understand what it is to own and run a business while paying everyone salaries and their health insurance. people have choices, you can work somewhere else and if you cant find another job that just proves the point of being happy with what you have. the people that worked for me were valued and for that i paid them well and gave them 100% medical paid in full by my company.

[Kevin]

i love this argument about jobs going over seas verizon has said that time and time again. yet these jobs arent going to go overseas because if we truly need poll workers and installers then i doubt that will be done by anyone in china, unless they ship those workers here.

I have read everything you wrote and dont agree with it. you are the piece of shit who worships a union thats fine but we dont have to agree. Im all for the workers rights, but companies have a right to make money you seem to feel that they need to only do what you want them to do and they cant decide to make changes. thats why there are workers and their are bosses. if you want to be a boss start your own business and see how it is. im so tired of people crying about how much the corp executives make but when people complain about others being overpaid that are in unions they are wrong?

i said i hope you get what you want but im not paying anymore for it. why would i be happy to pay more and more for you? what do you do for me nothing so go fuck yourself and go pay for whatever you lose yourself!

Companies do have the right to make money, but workers who are mainly responsible for them making that money also have the right to ask for their fair share of it.

[Snacks]

Actually I don't. There is a very large percentage of people who have no grasp of the history or the mission of a labor union.

I do and know many union workers and even many guys who run a few unions. they are dying off you can blame corp america, you can blame the unions themselves or you can blame the workers for no longer wanting anyone to speak for them.

[Snacks]

Companies do have the right to make money, but workers who are mainly responsible for them making that money also have the right to ask for their fair share of it.

i agree 100% and thats why i say work for companies that treat their employees fairly. if you dont like your job find a new one. if you listened to the verizon employees over the past 2 weeks they have more complaints about their working environment then can be believable. if things truly were that bad there and unsafe either their union hasnt done a good job keeping them safe or everything was exaggerated for theatrics to make their argument about the other stuff seem more valid!

[Kevin]

my mom hates unions im actually the only dem in the family but i dont follow party lines on everything. im fo avg joe citizen but when people bitch and moan about being owned something it turns me off. i have no problem with people fighting what they deserve but also understand what it is to own and run a business while paying everyone salaries and their health insurance. people have choices, you can work somewhere else and if you cant find another job that just proves the point of being happy with what you have. the people that worked for me were valued and for that i paid them well and gave them 100% medical paid in full by my company.

Have you seen the job market? Unless you have a connection some place, its pretty fucking hard to find a job.

Which is partly why the workers went back. They have a line that can fill many blocks of people who would take their jobs for less money and less benefits.

The only thing that's stopped Verizon from taking those workers is a huge publicity hit.

[Snacks]

Have you seen the job market? Unless you have a connection some place, its pretty fucking hard to find a job.

Which is partly why the workers went back. They have a like that can fill many blocks of people who would take their jobs for less money and less benefits.

The only thing that's stopped Verizon from taking those workers is a huge publicity hit.

yes i have, im currently out of work so trust me i know it. i decided after years and years of owning multiple businesses to sell them and go into the work force because ins and taxes were getting out of hand. working for someone else turns out to be a big mistake because you give them control. its sucks i know but i would be better off working for myself because at least i know i am responsible for my success or failures.

we talk about companies not caring for their workers anymore, that may be true. but remember when workers lived for and loved their companies? people dont care about them anymore they want whats best for them and to get whatever they can get out of their jobs. thats fine too, but dont complain when a big company doesnt invest in you personally anymore, to them now you are just a number as to you the company is just a paycheck!

i actually blame politicians for ins getting out of hand and the underemployment going on right now. they could do so much more for all of us, workers and business but each has decided to pick 1 side and only work for that 1 side.

[Zipgun]

i love this argument about jobs going over seas verizon has said that time and time again. yet these jobs arent going to go overseas because if we truly need poll workers and installers then i doubt that will be done by anyone in china, unless they ship those workers here.


You stupid fuck. Not everyone that works for Verizon is a technician. They already have India and the Phillippines taking customer calls. It's happening now. But see, that would require reading the very thread you're posting in.




I have read everything you wrote and dont agree with it.

Clearly you haven't. See above.


you are the piece of shit who worships a union thats fine but we dont have to agree. Im all for the workers rights, but companies have a right to make money you seem to feel that they need to only do what you want them to do and they cant decide to make changes. thats why there are workers and their are bosses. if you want to be a boss start your own business and see how it is. im so tired of people crying about how much the corp executives make but when people complain about others being overpaid that are in unions they are wrong?

I don't speak rambling moron? Anyone here a translator?



i said i hope you get what you want but im not paying anymore for it. why would i be happy to pay more and more for you? what do you do for me nothing so go fuck yourself and go pay for whatever you lose yourself!

It's gotten to the point I may have to call the Guinness book people. You may have the record for being profoundly fucking retarded and not being locked up.

You honestly think that if your bill goes up that the money from that is going to the union worker? And it's the workers that make the decisions to raise rates?

Your life must be amazing. It has to be freeing to be able to wander around and be that stupid without a care in the world.

[disneyspy]

simmer down with the name calling please

[Zipgun]

No. Fuck him.

Ban me if you feel that's what you have to do, but I'm not treating that fucking dope with kid gloves.

[Snacks]

No. Fuck him.


No fuck you and keep talking tough! I said nothing personal about you except i disagree with you but you think you can come at me?

Fucking sheep cant handle other peoples views.

[Zipgun]

No fuck you and keep talking tough! I said nothing personal about you except i disagree with you but you think you can come at me?

Fucking sheep cant handle other peoples views.

Because you keep arguing points that don't make any sense or are completely wrong or have been covered already but you don't fucking read. It's unbelievably frustrating to continue a debate with someone that has no clue.

You contradict your own points. You have no idea how unions work. You have no clue how Verizon even works, apparently. You really have no business in the discussion.

[Snacks]

Because you keep arguing points that don't make any sense or are completely wrong or have been covered already but you don't fucking read. It's unbelievably frustrating to continue a debate with someone that has no clue.

You contradict your own points. You have no idea how unions work. You have no clue how Verizon even works, apparently. You really have no business in the discussion.

I made no points about anything other then union collected their dues, which they werent while you were striking. that i want you guys to get whatever you can but not at the expense of my bill going up any more then it already has. that they talked about jobs going overseas and i was saying that certain jobs cant go overseas which is a fact but you brought it back to operators and office workers etc which wasnt what i was talking about. i talked about the striking worker acting like a douche towards the "scab" worker when its the ceos they should be mad at etc. nothing i said wasnt true nor was it out of line but because it didnt side with you are your argument you decide to come at me. i dont go for that shit either!

[TripleSkeet]

After reading the last 3 pages it seems like some guys here really have no idea what a union is or what they do. Its almost comical.

Snacks, dont you live in North Jersey? What do you mean, the unions are dying off? Are you insane? Unions are as strong as ever, especially in the northeast. I mean it depends on the union and the industry, but still you got the carpenters, electricians, pipe fitters, truck drivers, constrcution workers, cops, firemen, the list goes on and on.

[underdog]

yes i have, im currently out of work so trust me i know it. i decided after years and years of owning multiple businesses to sell them and go into the work force because ins and taxes were getting out of hand. working for someone else turns out to be a big mistake because you give them control. its sucks i know but i would be better off working for myself because at least i know i am responsible for my success or failures.

we talk about companies not caring for their workers anymore, that may be true. but remember when workers lived for and loved their companies? people dont care about them anymore they want whats best for them and to get whatever they can get out of their jobs. thats fine too, but dont complain when a big company doesnt invest in you personally anymore, to them now you are just a number as to you the company is just a paycheck!

i actually blame politicians for ins getting out of hand and the underemployment going on right now. they could do so much more for all of us, workers and business but each has decided to pick 1 side and only work for that 1 side.

What kind of businesses have you owned?

[StanUpshaw]

What kind of businesses have you owned?

Eager Beaver Bereavement Counselors, Inc.

[Snacks]

What kind of businesses have you owned?

Salons, Marketing, consulting, concert and talent bookings, trade show org, import/export of products and lotions, and i was even a part owner of an mma apparel business but only because i knew about the production, manufacturing side of it i knew nothing about mma!

Not that it should matter but I have had multiple LLC and Delaware corporations. I have paid my fair share and taxes and have always paid my employees above their competitors avg and 100% of their insurance. If I had to do it all over again I wouldnt have sold anything and I would tried to continue to grow but I was fooled and went to work for someone else.

[Tenbatsuzen]

I don't speak rambling moron? Anyone here a translator?


http://www.avitable.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/ispeakjive.jpg

[spoon]

i agree 100% and thats why i say work for companies that treat their employees fairly. if you dont like your job find a new one. if you listened to the verizon employees over the past 2 weeks they have more complaints about their working environment then can be believable. if things truly were that bad there and unsafe either their union hasnt done a good job keeping them safe or everything was exaggerated for theatrics to make their argument about the other stuff seem more valid!

Yes go out and work for that other HUGE company gobbling up every little company out there so they eventually can raise rates and fuck over their workforce. Our monopoly laws have been chipped away at so much they are almost worthless and now comes the worker's rights and compensation.

Snacks, do you have any idea how off the pay scale bt common workers and CEOs in the same companies are these days? It's literally getting close, or as some reports claim, WORSE than the robber baron days of old.

[StanUpshaw]

Concern about the perverse incentives brought about by the executive compensation structure are one thing.


Complaining that their salaries ARE TOO DAMN HIGH is just naked envy.

[Syd]

Snacks, do you have any idea how off the pay scale bt common workers and CEOs in the same companies are these days? It's literally getting close, or as some reports claim, WORSE than the robber baron days of old.



http://www.declineoftheempire.com/2010/10/americas-new-gilded-age.html


There's a "new" kind of class warfare being waged in in the United States, but you have to look very closely to find it. Perhaps "warfare" is the wrong word, for a war must have two sides in active opposition to each other, whereas this time around we only have two sides. This "warfare" is creating conditions that more and more resemble those of the late 19th century when America did not yet have an extensive Middle Class. Mark Twain dubbed this corrupt era the "Gilded Age."

The great egalitarian (socialist) movements of the 20th century are long gone. In the decades after the Great Depression and World War II, the Democrats assimilated some of the socialist agenda, which faded away during the Cold War. In the 1960s, Lyndon Johnson could still wage a war on poverty. When I was growing up, Democrats stood for labor unions and rights of working people. Republicans ... did not. For years and years, everybody understood that this was how things worked.

In 2010 no political party or faction represents working Americans. However, the wealthy are very well represented on both sides of political aisle because they have the ability to pay the bribes the politicians depend on for their election. Robert Reich has noted that campaign spending in this year's election is completely out of control. This is the first election (of many to come) taking place after the Supreme Court lifted restrictions on campaign donations.

[TripleSkeet]

Concern about the perverse incentives brought about by the executive compensation structure are one thing.


Complaining that their salaries ARE TOO DAMN HIGH is just naked envy.

I dont think anyone would complain that their salaries are too high if they didnt try to take away the other employees benefits and pensions to pay for it. Fuck that. You wanna pay your CEO millions in bonuses? Be my guest, but take that shit out of your fucking pocket, not mine.