Credit cards terrify dumb people

[StanUpshaw]

I've been hearing a lot of bitching about how the banks are charging for debit card purchases, and whenever it comes up, my first question is "Why aren't you using a credit card?"

What follows is usually some venom about how they're predators and rapists and how their friend's third cousin committed suicide because of his debts. The gist being that if they have a credit card, they won't be able to resist buying more than they can afford.

I don't know, but evidently these people are always having their debit card purchases denied for insufficient funds. It's just too goddamn difficult to know how much money you have, spend less than that, then pay it off each month. Maybe even build up your credit score, and if you're lucky...score some airline miles. NOPE! It's debit cards for me!

[Kevin]

Maybe its because you don't want to pay like 500 bucks for a 300 item?

[StanUpshaw]

Why would you buy a $300 item if you can't afford it?

[HBox]

Why would you buy a $300 item if you can't afford it?

If that was a necessary $300 purchase. Like say, a prescription for your child.

[Snacks]

The reason credit card companies give such high limits is they want you and know most people cant control themselves. So if someone decides not to use their credit card as a way to control spending it is actually a good thing because atm cards wont allow you to spend what you dont have. I dont see the problem or why its wrong. I would rather people be like that then use their credit card and then get themselves in trouble. The biggest problem is it only takes that 1 purchase when you say "fuck it I can pay it off later" to get yourself in trouble and thats what the banks/cc are hoping for!

You're bitching about people not taking personal responsibility/controlling themselves but they are by using atms rather then cc.

[StanUpshaw]

Can a mod change the thread title to: Credit cards [rightly] terrify dumb people

[StanUpshaw]

If that was a necessary $300 purchase. Like say, a prescription for your child.

So alternatively they'd just not buy it at all? What the fuck is your point?

[HBox]

So alternatively they'd just not buy it at all? What the fuck is your point?

I'm saying that all people who run up debt are not the stupid, irresponsible people you seemingly think they are. And they don't all deserve to be gouged by credit card companies.

[StanUpshaw]

I'm saying that all people who run up debt are not the stupid, irresponsible people you seemingly think they are. And they don't all deserve to be gouged by credit card companies.

If they have a credit card, they can choose to take out an 18% loan and buy what they need.

But if they only have a debit card, then they have no options. How are they better off in that situation?

[spoon]

I'm saying that all people who run up debt are not the stupid, irresponsible people you seemingly think they are. And they don't all deserve to be gouged by credit card companies.

I see both points here and they simply aren't in the same area. Yes people sometimes have little choice to use a card w/o the funds to pay it all off monthly and or in the short-term. Of course this doesn't make them idiots, but doing so in other areas on multiple cards and up to the limits for luxuries and then blaming the cards/banks is pathetic.

In contrast, card companies/banks now roll with rates that in the past were pretty much on par with fucking illegal loan sharks, but now can almost do as they choose legally. One party is pretty much married to the financial world, while the other is having one night stands.

[HBox]

BTW, I meant to say not all the people in my first post. Obviously many people are stupid, irresposnible fucktards who use credit cards for dumb things.

I guess a more salient point would be that, at the point of purchase, it costs banks the same for using a credit card and a debit card. Why the fees for one and not the other?

[StanUpshaw]

I guess a more salient point would be that, at the point of purchase, it costs banks the same for using a credit card and a debit card. Why the fees for one and not the other?[/color][/size]

Credit cards generate revenue and debit cards don't. And there are some credit cards that do have monthly fees.

[sailor]

I guess a more salient point would be that, at the point of purchase, it costs banks the same for using a credit card and a debit card. Why the fees for one and not the other?

the point for the debit card fees at BoA is that it does cost the bank more for debit transactions.

[Snacks]

I see both points here and they simply aren't in the same area. Yes people sometimes have little choice to use a card w/o the funds to pay it all off monthly and or in the short-term. Of course this doesn't make them idiots, but doing so in other areas on multiple cards and up to the limits for luxuries and then blaming the cards/banks is pathetic.

In contrast, card companies/banks now roll with rates that in the past were pretty much on par with fucking illegal loan sharks, but now can almost do as they choose legally. One party is pretty much married to the financial world, while the other is having one night stands.

Might be your best analogy ever!

[StanUpshaw]

the point for the debit card fees at BoA is that it does cost the bank more for debit transactions.

Don't the transactions cost essentially the same, only now the fees the banks can charge the merchant for debit purchases have been capped?

[Snacks]

Don't the transactions cost essentially the same, only now the fees the banks can charge the merchant for debit purchases have been capped?

I dont pa any fees using any atm/debit card. Which bank is charging you these fees?

[StanUpshaw]

I dont pa any fees using any atm/debit card. Which bank is charging you these fees?

The banks are charging the merchant for both credit and debit transactions. You're paying for it with higher prices for your goods and services.

[Snacks]

The banks are charging the merchant for both credit and debit transactions. You're paying for it with higher prices for your goods and services.

If its $2.00 cash I pay $2.00 with my atm not a penny more from my bank or from the store. As a business owner there is a transaction fee for every swipe to me. But like you said I add that fee to everyone. So the people paying cash are also paying a hidden fee so why not use your atm anyway? Its technically not costing you anymore money b/c those fees are added to the item no matter how you pay! The person paying cash is getting fucked in reality!

[StanUpshaw]

More and more you see places (lots of gas stations) offering cash discounts.

As far as what card you'd choose as a customer, the way I see it, credit offers the most versatility. If you swipe debit, it's over and done with; there's no risk and no reward.

With credit, it allows you the option of deciding when and how much to pay, if you happen to need that flexibility. Plus you can earn whatever member benefits come with your card. And probably most importantly, you build your credit (though I'm not sure how much monthly activity really matters, or if just having credit accounts open and in good standing is key).

[underdog]

More and more you see places (lots of gas stations) offering cash discounts.

As far as what card you'd choose as a customer, the way I see it, credit offers the most versatility. If you swipe debit, it's over and done with; there's no risk and no reward.

With credit, it allows you the option of deciding when and how much to pay, if you happen to need that flexibility. Plus you can earn whatever member benefits come with your card. And probably most importantly, you build your credit (though I'm not sure how much monthly activity really matters, or if just having credit accounts open and in good standing is key).

If a gas station has a "cash" discount, it's the same price for a debit card. Using your debit card as a credit card there ends up getting you the credit price, though.

I only have one credit card because I ruined my credit when I was younger. Now, I just buy whatever I can afford and the debit card works great for that. I wouldn't really trust myself with more credit cards, either.

[spoon]

udog, you really don't have the control to have a decent limit ccard?

I'm not messing w/ u either, just curious. I guess I never really had the issue so it's odd to me. As I ran up a little in college too, but within the realm of what I knew I'd pay back after I got a job and knew I could manage. Not to mention a lot of my charges were for books, food and blowing off steam at the time.

ccards for pts, and I have two great ones, are gold if used right

[Dude!]

I only have one credit card because I ruined my credit when I was younger. Now, I just buy whatever I can afford and the debit card works great for that. I wouldn't really trust myself with more credit cards, either.

it's great that you survived
the loss of most of your credit cards

but it must have been tough on IHOP

[underdog]

udog, you really don't have the control to have a decent limit ccard?

I'm not messing w/ u either, just curious. I guess I never really had the issue so it's odd to me. As I ran up a little in college too, but within the realm of what I knew I'd pay back after I got a job and knew I could manage. Not to mention a lot of my charges were for books, food and blowing off steam at the time.

ccards for pts, and I have two great ones, are gold if used right

Like I said, I have one credit card now (I think I have $45 available). I destroyed the limit on like 6 others when I was 18. I'm terrible with money.

Although, if I got a normal card right now, I'm sure I'd be fine with it. I'd be able to pay off a small card month to month. I just don't know if I'd qualify, and don't care to find out.

it's great that you survived
the loss of most of your credit cards

but it must have been tough on IHOP

ihop? Really?

[sailor]

The banks are charging the merchant for both credit and debit transactions. You're paying for it with higher prices for your goods and services.

from a merchant's perspective it's a trade-off; they are charged a small fee for the convenience of having their money wired directly into their bank account (cards) vs no fee (cash) but they have to pay someone to count/reconcile it and have to physically transfer it themselves to the bank. physical cash also leads to threat of theft. i don't think prices for consumers go up due to use of cards.

[PapaBear]

from a merchant's perspective it's a trade-off; they are charged a small fee for the convenience of having their money wired directly into their bank account (cards) vs no fee (cash) but they have to pay someone to count/reconcile it and have to physically transfer it themselves to the bank. physical cash also leads to threat of theft. i don't think prices for consumers go up due to use of cards.
The problem with the "small fee", that led to the government's overhaul of the rules deals with the fees being higher for credit than for debit. For instance... When you use a debit card, they ask "Is this credit or debit"? When I would use my paypal debit card (proceeds from ebay sales went on the card), it was to my advantage to say "credit". If I used it as credit, I got a cash reward from paypal. But the merchant would get charged more if I said "credit". Some places (Walmart is one) wouldn't even give me the option to use it as credit. It automatically went into the system as debit. The new government rules made it so the banks could no longer charge two different fees to the merchant. So now, they're making up the difference by charging us customers, instead of the merchants. And I doubt the merchants are passing on their savings to us.

[sailor]

The problem with the "small fee", that led to the government's overhaul of the rules deals with the fees being higher for credit than for debit. For instance... When you use a debit card, they ask "Is this credit or debit"? When I would use my paypal debit card (proceeds from ebay sales went on the card), it was to my advantage to say "credit". If I used it as credit, I got a cash reward from paypal. But the merchant would get charged more if I said "credit". Some places (Walmart is one) wouldn't even give me the option to use it as credit. It automatically went into the system as debit. The new government rules made it so the banks could no longer charge two different fees to the merchant. So now, they're making up the difference by charging us customers, instead of the merchants. And I doubt the merchants are passing on their savings to us.

never imagined they'd pass any savings along.

on another note, how is people seeing something could be a problem for them a sign they're "dumb people?" it would be like if he started a thread saying alcohol scares dumb people; because he can have a drink and stop, why can't everyone else?

[PapaBear]

never imagined they'd pass any savings along.

on another note, how is people seeing something could be a problem for them a sign they're "dumb people?" it would be like if he started a thread saying alcohol scares dumb people; because he can have a drink and stop, why can't everyone else?
You don't actually try to analyze his thoughts, do you?

[TripleSkeet]

udog, you really don't have the control to have a decent limit ccard?

I'm not messing w/ u either, just curious. I guess I never really had the issue so it's odd to me. As I ran up a little in college too, but within the realm of what I knew I'd pay back after I got a job and knew I could manage. Not to mention a lot of my charges were for books, food and blowing off steam at the time.

ccards for pts, and I have two great ones, are gold if used right

Its not always about control. Ive always been good at managing money. I lost my job a year before my wedding. I was out of work for 6 months. In the meantime shit had to be paid for. The hall, the flowers, the cake etc. So I had to put them on credit cards.

Once I got married I had to add that credit card debt to the $10k my wife had. So now I had a ton of credit card debt to pay off. My wife is terrible at managing money so I took over the bills when we got married. Its been tough but in the last 6 years I got about 60% of it paid off.

The whole point of using a debit card was "same as cash". This way less people had to take cash out of the bank or ATMs every time they wanted to buy something. Now they have people using the cards and they want to charge them all fees for it? Thats bullshit. TD Bank sucks shit but at least they dont do that. If I had a BoA account I wouldve transferred it the minute that policy started.

[StanUpshaw]

never imagined they'd pass any savings along.

on another note, how is people seeing something could be a problem for them a sign they're "dumb people?" it would be like if he started a thread saying alcohol scares dumb people; because he can have a drink and stop, why can't everyone else?

My point was that it was an irrational fear. These people AREN'T getting their debit purchases rejected all the time, they're able to manage their money just fine. Yet somehow they believe if they have a credit card, the Dark Lord Sauron will be able to exert his influence to corrupt their minds and compel them to spend.

[TripleSkeet]

My point was that it was an irrational fear. These people AREN'T getting their debit purchases rejected all the time, they're able to manage their money just fine. Yet somehow they believe if they have a credit card, the Dark Lord Sauron will be able to exert his influence to corrupt their minds and compel them to spend.

Its easier to spend money when you dont see it leaving. When you use a debit card that transaction goes in your checkbook, so you know how much you can and cant spend. How many times to people use their credit card, and at the end of the month get a statement thats alot higher then they thought it would be? It happens all the time. Its easier to budget your money with debit cards.

[StanUpshaw]

Its easier to spend money when you dont see it leaving. When you use a debit card that transaction goes in your checkbook, so you know how much you can and cant spend. How many times to people use their credit card, and at the end of the month get a statement thats alot higher then they thought it would be? It happens all the time. Its easier to budget your money with debit cards.

This qualifies as dumb to me.

[sailor]

This qualifies as dumb to me.

This qualifies as dumb to me.

[TripleSkeet]

This qualifies as dumb to me.

Me too.

[Snacks]

This qualifies as dumb to me.

Me too.

Me three!

[StanUpshaw]

Buncha dummies in this thread