military to arrest and indefinitely detain Americans without trial or charges

[Duke]

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2011/12/02/the-national-defense-authorization-act-is-even-scarier-than-we-thought/

This week, the United States Senate passed S. 1867 also known as the National Defense Authorization Act including sections 1031 and 1032 which authorize the military to arrest and indefinitely detain American citizens without trial or charge. Despite national outcry over the bill which effectively suspends the Constitutional rights of those suspected of terrorist activities and would allow Americans to be incarcerated in Guantanamo Bay prison in Cuba, the Senate passed the bill by an overwhelming margin of 93-7. This means that Congress could easily override the President’s threatened veto.

[Snacks]

cant they throw "terrorist" on to any crime if they wanted essentially putting too much power in a already corrupt legal system?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

As usual 2 of the biggest scumbags in the Senate Graham and McCain were for this.

[Duke]

cant they throw "terrorist" on to any crime if they wanted essentially putting too much power in a already corrupt legal system?

yep! i am surprised how little attention this is getting

[spoon]

WF is more shocked about the lack of coverage with fast and furious.

and this is a fucking joke that helps no average citizen in any fucking way

just flush all our rights in the face of any challenge or war I guess huh?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

WF is more shocked about the lack of coverage with fast and furious.

and this is a fucking joke that helps no average citizen in any fucking way

just flush all our rights in the face of any challenge or war I guess huh?

This is a more recent story and it SHOULD be covered.

F&F is a major scandal in the administration specifically the Justice dept.

[A.J.]

I hope the bill contains a rider that creates a department to oversee this. I will not feel safe until we turn this country into a police state!

[spoon]

I hope the bill contains a rider that creates a department to oversee this. I will not feel safe until we turn this country into a police state!

i call chief wiggum status!

http://www.forkparty.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/chief-wiggum.png

[Duke]

What is scary is that no major news network is covering this

[Snacks]

What is scary is that no major news network is covering this

if it wasnt for this thread I wouldnt have heard about it either. Our media only cares about sex stories, whos banging who and racial problems and the Kardashians the important stuff that effects the masses doesnt matter anymore.

[brettmojo]

yep! i am surprised how little attention this is getting
There's too much else going on for anyone to care. It's actually a perfect time to pull shit like this.

[spoon]

yah, we as the shit public are just encouraged to spend via credit cards (money most don't have) to help the economy right!?

pay no attention to your rights and futures being dissolved every day over the last 20 years people

[Duke]

This needs to get more media attention. I know this week they will be talking about patrice on O&A/Ron and Fez..But someone needs to call in and talk about this on the show.

[A.J.]

yah, we as the shit public are just encouraged to spend via credit cards (money most don't have) to help the economy right!?

pay no attention to your rights and futures being dissolved every day over the last 20 years people

But spoon, it's a post-9/11 world! Things are different! We can't let the terrorists win!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Meanwhile we still allow TSA agents to give happy endings to toddlers and seniors because you know it's for our safety

[Duke]

i highly encourage all of you to spread word of this bill

[brettmojo]

Meanwhile we still allow TSA agents to give happy endings to toddlers and seniors because you know it's for our safety
You're right... At least the toddlers and seniors are getting something.

[Bob Impact]

Help me out here, I certainly don't trust that congress is doing the right thing at all, but reading through the bill it seems to explicitly stipulate that it does not apply to citizens, am I reading the wrong version?

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d112:s.01867:

(a) Custody Pending Disposition Under Law of War-
(1) IN GENERAL- Except as provided in paragraph (4), the Armed Forces of the United States shall hold a person described in paragraph (2) who is captured in the course of hostilities authorized by the Authorization for Use of Military Force (Public Law 107-40) in military custody pending disposition under the law of war.
(2) COVERED PERSONS- The requirement in paragraph (1) shall apply to any person whose detention is authorized under section 1031 who is determined--
(A) to be a member of, or part of, al-Qaeda or an associated force that acts in coordination with or pursuant to the direction of al-Qaeda; and
(B) to have participated in the course of planning or carrying out an attack or attempted attack against the United States or its coalition partners.

(3) DISPOSITION UNDER LAW OF WAR- For purposes of this subsection, the disposition of a person under the law of war has the meaning given in section 1031(c), except that no transfer otherwise described in paragraph (4) of that section shall be made unless consistent with the requirements of section 1033.

(4) WAIVER FOR NATIONAL SECURITY- The Secretary of Defense may, in consultation with the Secretary of State and the Director of National Intelligence, waive the requirement of paragraph (1) if the Secretary submits to Congress a certification in writing that such a waiver is in the national security interests of the United States.

(b) Applicability to United States Citizens and Lawful Resident Aliens-
(1) UNITED STATES CITIZENS- The requirement to detain a person in military custody under this section does not extend to citizens of the United States.
(2) LAWFUL RESIDENT ALIENS- The requirement to detain a person in military custody under this section does not extend to a lawful resident alien of the United States on the basis of conduct taking place within the United States, except to the extent permitted by the Constitution of the United States.

[brettmojo]

i highly encourage all of you to spread word of this bill
"Oh hey Joe CoWorker... Did you hear about that bill that lets the military hold you indefinitely?"

"Yeah yeah yeah did you see the ass on that new girl? Shit that reminds me I gotta' set my dvr to record Big Bang Theory."

[Duke]

http://www.aclu.org/blog/national-security/senators-demand-military-lock-american-citizens-battlefield-they-define-being

UPDATE I: Don’t be confused by anyone claiming that the indefinite detention legislation does not apply to American citizens. It does. There is an exemption for American citizens from the mandatory detention requirement (section 1032 of the bill), but no exemption for American citizens from the authorization to use the military to indefinitely detain people without charge or trial (section 1031 of the bill). So, the result is that, under the bill, the military has the power to indefinitely imprison American citizens, but it does not have to use its power unless ordered to do so.

But you don’t have to believe us. Instead, read what one of the bill’s sponsors, Sen. Lindsey Graham said about it on the Senate floor: “1031, the statement of authority to detain, does apply to American citizens and it designates the world as the battlefield, including the homeland.”

There you have it — indefinite military detention of American citizens without charge or trial. And the Senate is likely to vote on it Monday or Tuesday.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I guess the government never heard of Posse Comateus

[brettmojo]

You all do realize this has nothing to do with terrorism right?

That is, unless you consider the aliens terrorists.

[spoon]

Meanwhile we still allow TSA agents to give happy endings to toddlers and seniors because you know it's for our safety

sigh

[WRESTLINGFAN]

sigh



NeoCon

[spoon]

i'm just impressed you didn't turn it into someone actually wanting that randomly in this thread, until your most recent post to me of course


sheepy horn

[Bob Impact]

OK, got section 1031, I still don't see where this applies to US citizens, unless it's the portion that talks about supporting al-Qaeda.

SEC. 1031. AFFIRMATION OF AUTHORITY OF THE ARMED FORCES OF THE UNITED STATES TO DETAIN COVERED PERSONS PURSUANT TO THE AUTHORIZATION FOR USE OF MILITARY FORCE.

(a) In General- Congress affirms that the authority of the President to use all necessary and appropriate force pursuant to the Authorization for Use of Military Force (Public Law 107-40) includes the authority for the Armed Forces of the United States to detain covered persons (as defined in subsection (b)) pending disposition under the law of war.

(b) Covered Persons- A covered person under this section is any person as follows:
(1) A person who planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or harbored those responsible for those attacks.
(2) A person who was a part of or substantially supported al-Qaeda, the Taliban, or associated forces that are engaged in hostilities against the United States or its coalition partners, including any person who has committed a belligerent act or has directly supported such hostilities in aid of such enemy forces.

(c) Disposition Under Law of War- The disposition of a person under the law of war as described in subsection (a) may include the following:
(1) Detention under the law of war without trial until the end of the hostilities authorized by the Authorization for Use of Military Force.
(2) Trial under chapter 47A of title 10, United States Code (as amended by the Military Commissions Act of 2009 (title XVIII of Public Law 111-84)).
(3) Transfer for trial by an alternative court or competent tribunal having lawful jurisdiction.
(4) Transfer to the custody or control of the person's country of origin, any other foreign country, or any other foreign entity.
(d) Construction- Nothing in this section is intended to limit or expand the authority of the President or the scope of the Authorization for Use of Military Force.
(e) Authorities- Nothing in this section shall be construed to affect existing law or authorities, relating to the detention of United States citizens, lawful resident aliens of the United States or any other persons who are captured or arrested in the United States.

[furie]

if it wasnt for this thread I wouldnt have heard about it either.

same here.

i guess that's to keep down the outrage.

[IamFogHat]

http://www.lonelyplanet.com/maps/north-america/canada/map_of_canada.jpg

[underdog]

http://www.lonelyplanet.com/maps/north-america/canada/map_of_canada.jpg

I lived there. It sucked.

[Duke]

Sen. Rand Paul Defends American Citizens Against Indefinite Detainment


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rghhz_t5POo&feature=player_embedded

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Sen. Rand Paul Defends American Citizens Against Indefinite Detainment


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rghhz_t5POo&feature=player_embedded

Just like his old man. He actually supports and defends the constitution.

[Duke]

http://www.dailypaul.com/190083/senate-passes-defense-bill-with-defeat-of-detainee-amendment-by-senator-rand-paul

[Duke]

http://www.opencongress.org/bill/112-s1867/show

[Bob Impact]

http://www.opencongress.org/bill/112-s1867/show

This is exactly what I needed. The problem is that the bill seems to be that excluding American citizens where it actually just puts detention up to the discretion of the military. Glad to get that out of the way, now I can officially say BBBBBOOOOO!

[Duke]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKaTxjxnYfE&feature=relmfu

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Obama signed the NDAA bill last night. Way to go Mr Constitutional scholar.

[furie]

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/12/25/1048711/-Montanans-Launch-Recall-of-Senators-Who-Approved-NDAA-Military-Detention-Merry-Christmas,-US-Senate

[hanso]

This is a provision the whole thing has to do with $ toward the next overall military budget that will be $1.030–$1.415 trillion.

"The $662 billion bill authorizes money for military personnel, weapons systems, the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq and national security programs in the Energy Department for the fiscal year beginning Oct. 1.

The measure also freezes some $700 million in assistance until Pakistan comes up with a strategy to deal with improvised explosive devices.

Obama signed the bill in Hawaii, where he is vacationing with his family."

"The administration also pushed Congress to change a provision that would have denied U.S. citizens suspected of terrorism the right to trial and could have subjected them to indefinite detention. Lawmakers eventually dropped the military custody requirement for U.S. citizens or lawful U.S. residents.

"My administration will not authorize the indefinite military detention without trial of American citizens," Obama said in the signing statement. "Indeed, I believe that doing so would break with our most important traditions and values as a nation."".

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Latest-News-Wires/2012/0101/Obama-signs-defense-bill-despite-serious-reservations


This also has sanctions against Iran dealing with oil and the world bank.
Some of this is in the story url above.

There is news that Iran test-fired a surface-to-surface cruise missiles today and or Sun. even though Sat. it was said to be called off with an offer for more talks.

I also read that Iran's currency has already dropped some 20 % before any of this took place while food has gone up 40%. And they make most of there $ off oil.

Also if they were to block the strait of hormuz it is said to be an act of war due to international implications. (blockade of an international waterway is an act of war.)

[Bob Impact]

I'll sign it into law but I totally won't do it, PROMISE!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Wikimedia to go dark in protest of SOPA


http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Press_releases/English_Wikipedia_to_go_dark

[PapaBear]

Wikimedia to go dark in protest of SOPA


http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Press_releases/English_Wikipedia_to_go_dark
I don't know what this has to do with this thread, but there isn't a SOPA thread that I can find. Wiki is now dark. The Interrobang said they were going to go dark too, but they aren't. Maybe they just didn't figure out how to do it.