Sports Guy.... FIRED!

[Tenbatsuzen]

...and it's NOT Sid Rosenberg!

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/sports/Scott-Kaplan-Fired-Sports-Radio-San-Diego-138848799.html

[Snacks]

wonder if he would have been fired if he made those same comments about a man?

[Tenbatsuzen]

wonder if he would have been fired if he made those same comments about a man?

I'm not entirely sure because he was ragging on her appearance, not her play. You just can't call someone transgendered, especially a former female athlete, and get away with it.

[Snacks]

I'm not entirely sure because he was ragging on her appearance, not her play. You just can't call someone transgendered, especially a former female athlete, and get away with it.

you think if he called Boomer this he would have been fired?

Kaplan reportedly described Lloyd as a “sasquatch of a woman who breaks things down at halftime. I just can’t watch it.” Additionally, Kaplan called Lloyd an “monster” a “beast” and "an animal"

[A.J.]

Fuck you for making me think this was about Bill Simmons!

[Tenbatsuzen]

you think if he called Boomer this he would have been fired?

In a workplace, "busting balls" with guys is completely different than saying stuff like that about a female sportscaster.

I would have to hear it in context, but it also might be, as someone on FARK suggested, that they were looking for a reason to get rid of the guy.

[Snacks]

In a workplace, "busting balls" with guys is completely different than saying stuff like that about a female sportscaster.

I would have to hear it in context, but it also might be, as someone on FARK suggested, that they were looking for a reason to get rid of the guy.

I didn't say busting balls with a guy in the work place. My question is simple. If a sports talk host said what he said about another sports personality that was male would he get fired? Boomer doesn't work with Kaplan so this is perfect but use any radio personality. If Carton makes similar negative comments about Russo would or should he be fired?

[ozzie]

Kaplan reportedly described Lloyd as a “sasquatch of a woman who breaks things down at halftime. I just can’t watch it.” Additionally, Kaplan called Lloyd an “monster” a “beast” and "an animal"


http://www.cehd.umn.edu/tuckercenter/images/ngwsday2007lavoiloyd.jpg http://www.wnba.com/media/lynx/gellner_lloydcurry_030524.jpg

http://blogs.phillynews.com/inquirer/womhoops/DSCN4587.JPG

Shit, she's only like 6' 2". Not exactly "freakish" height...

http://images.checkoutmycards.com/zoom-back/ffcba9ca-f384-4d37-a185-16d970648837.jpg

[ozzie]

I didn't say busting balls with a guy in the work place. My question is simple. If a sports talk host said what he said about another sports personality that was male would he get fired? Boomer doesn't work with Kaplan so this is perfect but use any radio personality. If Carton makes similar negative comments about Russo would or should he be fired?

Other than general pleasantries, it's verboten now for any male to comment on a female co-worker's appearance... whether good or bad.

Remember Kornheiser and Hannah Storm?

http://leeloveshottrends.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/Tony-Kornheiser-Mocks-Hannah-Storm-Outfit.jpg

If he made fun of Wilbon's clothes or appearance, it's just "busting balls".

When he ripped Hannah Storm, it fell under "sexual harrassment".

Was the "sasquatch" in question a "co-worker" of Kaplan's? Or same employer?

[pennington]

wonder if he would have been fired if he made those same comments about a man?

I remember Imus used to say things about Howie Long like "He looks like he should have bolts in his neck". There was no public outcry, and I doubt Long was offended. Apparently it is acceptable to compare a man to Frankenstein but unacceptable to compare a woman to a Sasquatch.

Making comments about things people have no control over is (like how tall they are) is low class. Kaplan is a big boy, he should have immediately said he was sorry and invited her on his show. He didn't, of course, but he shouldn't have been fired.

[realmenhatelife]

I didn't say busting balls with a guy in the work place. My question is simple. If a sports talk host said what he said about another sports personality that was male would he get fired? Boomer doesn't work with Kaplan so this is perfect but use any radio personality. If Carton makes similar negative comments about Russo would or should he be fired?

If the sports guy said something that a man would traditionally be sensitive about then yes, I think he might get fired. If he said that a male broadcaster couldn't get it up or has a small dick, or was a closet gay, or probably didn't take care of his kids it would be analagous to this.

And he isn't getting fired for saying anything, he's getting fired for refusing to apologize. He's trying to show his boss up which is something you're generally not allowed to do regardless of gender.

[Snacks]

If the sports guy said something that a man would traditionally be sensitive about then yes, I think he might get fired. If he said that a male broadcaster couldn't get it up or has a small dick, or was a closet gay, or probably didn't take care of his kids it would be analagous to this.

And he isn't getting fired for saying anything, he's getting fired for refusing to apologize. He's trying to show his boss up which is something you're generally not allowed to do regardless of gender.

Lets be honest everything you mentioned wouldnt get a guy fired if he was saying it about another man. If a man complained about comments like this they would get attacked for not being a man or being too sensitive or told they should grow a pair etc. I cant think of any examples right now but we all have heard worse comments about men. The only comments I could think of that would get another fired would be slander or lies that could get the personality and station sued or overly racist comments.

[ozzie]

If the sports guy said something that a man would traditionally be sensitive about then yes, I think he might get fired. If he said that a male broadcaster couldn't get it up or has a small dick, or was a closet gay, or probably didn't take care of his kids it would be analagous to this.

And he isn't getting fired for saying anything, he's getting fired for refusing to apologize. He's trying to show his boss up which is something you're generally not allowed to do regardless of gender.

If Bob Costas threw it to Scott Hamilton at the rink, and NBC cameras caught Costas commenting about stretch marks around his dick-sucking-mouth, or his bald head being a result of rubbing it against too much man ass, or that there was no noticible bulge in hamilton's old skating outfits because he must tuck or have a micro-penis... and then refused to apologize?

Yeah, pretty sure he'd be fired.

[realmenhatelife]

Lets be honest everything you mentioned wouldnt get a guy fired if he was saying it about another man. If a man complained about comments like this they would get attacked for not being a man or being too sensitive or told they should grow a pair etc. I cant think of any examples right now but we all have heard worse comments about men. The only comments I could think of that would get another fired would be slander or lies that could get the personality and station sued or overly racist comments.

I dont believe that if you went on the radio and said Chris Russo has a small dick and then refused to either apologize or stop talking about it you wouldn't get fired. If you let it go it makes your whole station a joke. You're also talking about a minority issue, it's a white guy picking on a woman in an industry where white men far outnumber everyone else.

[Tenbatsuzen]

I didn't say busting balls with a guy in the work place. My question is simple. If a sports talk host said what he said about another sports personality that was male would he get fired? Boomer doesn't work with Kaplan so this is perfect but use any radio personality. If Carton makes similar negative comments about Russo would or should he be fired?

If Carton went on a rampage about Francesa saying he was fat an had a speech impediment, he would ABSOLUTELY get in trouble. And if he kept at it after being warned, he'd get fired.

I don't think this is a one-time thing with Kaplan, especially with how defiant he was.

Suzyn Waldman is not the most attractive woman in the world. When Boomer and Craig make fun of her, it's from bad calls she's made, but not her looks.

[TripleSkeet]

Are you guys really trying to act like their isnt a double standard for women and men when it comes to this stuff? GET THE FUCK OUTTA HERE. If this were a man saying this about another man, or a woman saying this about a man, NOTHING would happen.

I give this guy credit for not apologizing though. Fuck that. They probably wouldve fired him after his apology anyway. At least he went out with some self respect.

[Snacks]

Are you guys really trying to act like their isnt a double standard for women and men when it comes to this stuff? GET THE FUCK OUTTA HERE. If this were a man saying this about another man, or a woman saying this about a man, NOTHING would happen.

I give this guy credit for not apologizing though. Fuck that. They probably wouldve fired him after his apology anyway. At least he went out with some self respect.

after they fired him he did apologize.

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2012/feb/09/tp-kaplan-sorry-about-lloyd-words/

[realmenhatelife]

Are you guys really trying to act like their isnt a double standard for women and men when it comes to this stuff? GET THE FUCK OUTTA HERE. If this were a man saying this about another man, or a woman saying this about a man, NOTHING would happen.

I give this guy credit for not apologizing though. Fuck that. They probably wouldve fired him after his apology anyway. At least he went out with some self respect.

If there is or isn't this isn't an example you can use to highlight that.

[Snacks]

If there is or isn't this isn't an example you can use to highlight that.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/SX6Nn3BaeLA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/pLxHLpYic4c" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[realmenhatelife]

This used to get yelled around us a lot to laugh, and once we were bowling yelling it during the persons backswing trying to screw them up or whatever, and then we noticed a skinny goth guy bowling with his hugely fat goth girlfriend a few lanes down and we felt bad that they might have misconstrued.

[TripleSkeet]

If there is or isn't this isn't an example you can use to highlight that.

It absolutely is. Broadcasters make fun of guys all the time for whatever reason. Has Siragusa never been made fun of for his weight? Same thing. The difference is some oversensitive cunt probably called management and complained on this guy (I doubt it was even Lloyd) and thats all it took.

[TripleSkeet]

after they fired him he did apologize.

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2012/feb/09/tp-kaplan-sorry-about-lloyd-words/

:wallbash: What a pussy.

[Gutter]

eh....I mean seriously....what the hell are you still doing on terrestrial radio anyway? Blessbing in disguise.

[realmenhatelife]

It absolutely is. Broadcasters make fun of guys all the time for whatever reason. Has Siragusa never been made fun of for his weight? Same thing. The difference is some oversensitive cunt probably called management and complained on this guy (I doubt it was even Lloyd) and thats all it took.

A man wouldn't assign value on a sexual judgement of another man and get away with it. Semantically guys can comment on another mans size, to an extent if it's in good fun and not mentioning dick size. But the spirit of what he says about her is not the same spirit as what someone would say about Charles Barkley. The context is totally different with a woman, I understand how that looks like a double standard but it actually isn't because you're not comparing apples to apples.

And aside from you're jumping to a conclusion about how it was decided that this was unprofessional, why is a woman a cunt for not wanting to be judged in such a juvenile way? Do you think he's talking about her size because he respects her, and thinks she can take a ribbing like one of the fellas? No, he's a little pussy hiding behind a mic shitting on an easy target like he was in third grade.

[TripleSkeet]

A man wouldn't assign value on a sexual judgement of another man and get away with it. Semantically guys can comment on another mans size, to an extent if it's in good fun and not mentioning dick size. But the spirit of what he says about her is not the same spirit as what someone would say about Charles Barkley. The context is totally different with a woman, I understand how that looks like a double standard but it actually isn't because you're not comparing apples to apples.

And aside from you're jumping to a conclusion about how it was decided that this was unprofessional, why is a woman a cunt for not wanting to be judged in such a juvenile way? Do you think he's talking about her size because he respects her, and thinks she can take a ribbing like one of the fellas? No, he's a little pussy hiding behind a mic shitting on an easy target like he was in third grade.

Shes a giant woman, and thats how he described her. I didnt know its his job to worry about the feelings of every sports journalist out there. Like I said, I see and hear people in that industry get made fun of all the time. Maybe its just looser reigns up here on WIP but the sportscasters here, especially people like Howard Eskin and Angelo Cataldi, say WAY worse about all kinds of sports figures. Men and women alike.

In my opinion working in a field as a public figure leaves you open to criticism and insults. Instead of firing guys and trying to emasculate them by forcing them to apologize when they clearly dont mean it like they are 5 year olds, these public figures should be forced to either get thicker skin, or go into another line of work.

And wheres the line? Should these guys also not be allowed to make fun of the athletes they are talking about? Or just the female ones?

[realmenhatelife]

Shes a giant woman, and thats how he described her. I didnt know its his job to worry about the feelings of every sports journalist out there. Like I said, I see and hear people in that industry get made fun of all the time. Maybe its just looser reigns up here on WIP but the sportscasters here, especially people like Howard Eskin and Angelo Cataldi, say WAY worse about all kinds of sports figures. Men and women alike.

In my opinion working in a field as a public figure leaves you open to criticism and insults. Instead of firing guys and trying to emasculate them by forcing them to apologize when they clearly dont mean it like they are 5 year olds, these public figures should be forced to either get thicker skin, or go into another line of work.

And wheres the line? Should these guys also not be allowed to make fun of the athletes they are talking about? Or just the female ones?

It isn't his job to comment on her size at all unless shes blocking shots or spiking volley balls. Making those comments belies a greater issue about professional respect. You know as well as I do there are ways to bust balls and there are ways to be aggressive. I hate people that do one and pretend it's the other.

It's wrong to emasculate him by making him apologize but it's not wrong to masculate her by calling her a behemoth? Double standard?

The line is where his boss says it is. Sports radio depends on someone being the heel so everyone can get all worked up and say 'oh what a douche bag' etc etc and thats a balancing act. It's all fake, which is why pretending you have principles and refusing to apologize is even more stupid. I'm not saying he should be prosecuted, in my opinion you cant cross a free speech line that justifies being arrested. But on the other end there's no such thing as someone being 'over sensitive.' It's your right to be offended by anything.

[TripleSkeet]

It isn't his job to comment on her size at all unless shes blocking shots or spiking volley balls. Making those comments belies a greater issue about professional respect. You know as well as I do there are ways to bust balls and there are ways to be aggressive. I hate people that do one and pretend it's the other.

It's wrong to emasculate him by making him apologize but it's not wrong to masculate her by calling her a behemoth? Double standard?

The line is where his boss says it is. Sports radio depends on someone being the heel so everyone can get all worked up and say 'oh what a douche bag' etc etc and thats a balancing act. It's all fake, which is why pretending you have principles and refusing to apologize is even more stupid. I'm not saying he should be prosecuted, in my opinion you cant cross a free speech line that justifies being arrested. But on the other end there's no such thing as someone being 'over sensitive.' It's your right to be offended by anything.

Thats completely wrong. He has a talk show. He can talk about whatever he wants. Yes its mostly sports based, but that doesnt mean he cant talk about her as a sportscaster. Do you ever even listen to sports radio? They talk about everything and everyone. Athletes, coaches, referees, other sportscasters, journalists, sideline reporters, movie, books, musuic, food. Its his show. If his boss wants to fire him for what he said, fine. I dont agree with it but I dont agree with many corporate decisions and the way they do things. Im just dissapointed he fucking apologized. Fuck that. Stand by what you say and be a man. I dont give a fuck what the job is or how much the pay is, I could NEVER apologize for something if Im not really sorry.

[realmenhatelife]

Thats completely wrong. He has a talk show. He can talk about whatever he wants. Yes its mostly sports based, but that doesnt mean he cant talk about her as a sportscaster. Do you ever even listen to sports radio? They talk about everything and everyone. Athletes, coaches, referees, other sportscasters, journalists, sideline reporters, movie, books, musuic, food. Its his show. If his boss wants to fire him for what he said, fine. I dont agree with it but I dont agree with many corporate decisions and the way they do things. Im just dissapointed he fucking apologized. Fuck that. Stand by what you say and be a man. I dont give a fuck what the job is or how much the pay is, I could NEVER apologize for something if Im not really sorry.

But the question is, is there a double standard and I'm saying no, because he's going after that woman in a way that is more personal than he would go after a man. The shit they say about men is not the same thing they say about women because misogyny is inherent in media, sports, and men.

And obviously he cant talk about whatever he wants, he doesn't own the radio station or the air time, he talks at the consent of many other people and everyone who runs a talk show is expected to maintain a level of professionalism.

He's not going to stand by what he said because it's all a bullshit act, he doesn't give a shit about what he said. And, I really dont think you would is his situation. Imagine you're a mediocre guy who knows he's mediocre getting paid way too much money to do an incredibly easy job. You're really gonna flush that on some throwaway nonsense and go sell fucking cars for a living while the station hires some other mediocre jabroni to take over for you, the callers grumble for three days, and then fall right back in line with calling to bitch about the same shit as last week? Would you burn the lottery ticket because the counter guy gave you a dirty look?

Is it being a man to stand by something thats wrong and stupid just because you said it? Isn't that being a prick?

[Snacks]

But the question is, is there a double standard and I'm saying no, because he's going after that woman in a way that is more personal than he would go after a man. The shit they say about men is not the same thing they say about women because misogyny is inherent in media, sports, and men.

And obviously he cant talk about whatever he wants, he doesn't own the radio station or the air time, he talks at the consent of many other people and everyone who runs a talk show is expected to maintain a level of professionalism.

He's not going to stand by what he said because it's all a bullshit act, he doesn't give a shit about what he said. And, I really dont think you would is his situation. Imagine you're a mediocre guy who knows he's mediocre getting paid way too much money to do an incredibly easy job. You're really gonna flush that on some throwaway nonsense and go sell fucking cars for a living while the station hires some other mediocre jabroni to take over for you, the callers grumble for three days, and then fall right back in line with calling to bitch about the same shit as last week? Would you burn the lottery ticket because the counter guy gave you a dirty look?

Is it being a man to stand by something thats wrong and stupid just because you said it? Isn't that being a prick?

what?

Women in the media get away with much more when talking about anything and everything especially if they are talking negative or degrading men. This is such bullshit that you are brainwashed to believe the opposite.

Here is a prime example posted on youtube. If men commented or discussed/joked about something like this that was done towards a woman they would be fired before the next commercial break. After joking and having fun with this discussion towards the end of the video you will see the apology. Even the apology was fucked up and not serious.

http://youtu.be/VKgwczruOSQ?t=36s

[realmenhatelife]

what?

Women in the media get away with much more when talking about anything and everything especially if they are talking negative or degrading men. This is such bullshit that you are brainwashed to believe the opposite.

Here is a prime example posted on youtube. If men commented or discussed/joked about something like this that was done towards a woman they would be fired before the next commercial break. After joking and having fun with this discussion towards the end of the video you will see the apology. Even the apology was fucked up and not serious.

http://youtu.be/VKgwczruOSQ?t=36s

1. These women are functionally retarded.

2. The video backs up what I say about there not being a double standard. They did that segment and after the producer said to them You need to apologize, you crossed the line of what we're holding as our standard for good taste on this program. Then they apologized. If they refused to apologize they would have shit canned atleast Sharon. It's the same exact thing.

They didn't "get away" with anything. Even in the midst of the discussion Leah Remeny and the girl from Roseanne try and put the brakes on Sharon Osbourne. They also weren't talking negatively or specifically degrading the guy, they were making light of his situation but aside from Sharon did not imply that he brought it on himself or deserved it.

[Snacks]

1. These women are functionally retarded.

2. The video backs up what I say about there not being a double standard. They did that segment and after the producer said to them You need to apologize, you crossed the line of what we're holding as our standard for good taste on this program. Then they apologized. If they refused to apologize they would have shit canned atleast Sharon. It's the same exact thing.

They didn't "get away" with anything. Even in the midst of the discussion Leah Remeny and the girl from Roseanne try and put the brakes on Sharon Osbourne. They also weren't talking negatively or specifically degrading the guy, they were making light of his situation but aside from Sharon did not imply that he brought it on himself or deserved it.

so these women who are national tv are allowed to have an excuse that they are "retarded" ? Got it!

The video backs up nothing but their apology was a joke and not serious. the entire time they were laughing and proving that they were only saying sorry because they were told too. my point is if a man talked about a woman being cut up, mangled or abused they wouldnt even get the chance to apologize they would be out. They even mentioned during their original joking that if reversed it wouldnt be a laughing matter.

[realmenhatelife]

so these women who are national tv are allowed to have an excuse that they are "retarded" ? Got it!

The video backs up nothing but their apology was a joke and not serious. the entire time they were laughing and proving that they were only saying sorry because they were told too. my point is if a man talked about a woman being cut up, mangled or abused they wouldnt even get the chance to apologize they would be out. They even mentioned during their original joking that if reversed it wouldnt be a laughing matter.

Thats not an excuse, I'm just saying these women are morons. I dont think women are right because they're women and men are wrong because they're men. These are some stupid, stupid women.

I'm not saying the radio guy needed to apologize sincerely either. If the story was "radio guy fired after shitty apology" I wouldn't side with his station over it. You showed me a clip where a single woman runs with a joke that the rest of them realize has gotten away from them and was a bad idea, and then they have to collectively apologize. You've completely illustrated my opinion that if a woman made comments at a personal level to a man, which I have already outlined would have to involve something like his dick, that she would be made to apologize the same as the sports guy saying a woman is an unfuckable yeti she beast.

[TripleSkeet]

I cant believe Im saying this but I agree with Snacks. Women are ABSOLUTELY allowed more leeway to make fun of men than when the roles are reversed. They absolutely are.

As far as what I would do, well you can ask my wife, I dont apologize if I dont feel Im wrong. Ever. Its cost me a job before. Its gotten my parents called to school. And looking back, I dont regret it at all. I can also see it in my son. Hes 2 1/2 and he doesnt budge if he doesnt want to. Ever. A part of me wishes he would bend a little because I know life can be tough and you can be fucked out things wrongfully if you dont bend to others to accomodate them, even if I dont think you should. But theres a small part of me thats proud of him as well.

Any job that emasculates you and forces you to give an apology you dont mean isnt worth having. I dont care how easy it is or how much it pays. Ive recently had a boss at one of my jobs tell me she didnt like something I put on my Facebook. My reply was simple. Tough shit. Its my personal page. If you dont like it, dont go on my page. But Im not changing what I say or taking anything down. When she asked me what Id do if it threatened my job I told her honestly to go ahead and fire me, Ill just go get a job somewhere else. To me principles are worth more than a job.

[realmenhatelife]

I cant believe Im saying this but I agree with Snacks. Women are ABSOLUTELY allowed more leeway to make fun of men than when the roles are reversed. They absolutely are.As far as what I would do, well you can ask my wife, I dont apologize if I dont feel Im wrong. Ever. Its cost me a job before. Its gotten my parents called to school. And looking back, I dont regret it at all. I can also see it in my son. Hes 2 1/2 and he doesnt budge if he doesnt want to. Ever. A part of me wishes he would bend a little because I know life can be tough and you can be fucked out things wrongfully if you dont bend to others to accomodate them, even if I dont think you should. But theres a small part of me thats proud of him as well.

Any job that emasculates you and forces you to give an apology you dont mean isnt worth having. I dont care how easy it is or how much it pays. Ive recently had a boss at one of my jobs tell me she didnt like something I put on my Facebook. My reply was simple. Tough shit. Its my personal page. If you dont like it, dont go on my page. But Im not changing what I say or taking anything down. When she asked me what Id do if it threatened my job I told her honestly to go ahead and fire me, Ill just go get a job somewhere else. To me principles are worth more than a job.

If you're digging your heels in on stuff you dont believe, just on the principle, and you will not consider that you could be incorrect or have 1 specific point of view in a world of other points of view, I see that as a personal fault. That's my opinion, as it is my opinion that this guy was talking out of his ass just to fill time and when it came back to bite him he got stubborn.

Now, Not in that clip you dont see women getting more slack than men.

But this raises a question that comes up a lot in conversations like this. You're talking about a majority/minority relationship. The majority isn't as likely to pipe up about something like language because it has more to lose, and has a vested interest in not reminding the minority of all the ways they are the minority. The king doesn't make fun of the jester, it's extra bad taste that way. Minority groups exist because it is implicit that if you're the majority your interests are already spoken for, a majority interest group is redundant. If white men or just men really felt put out by stuff that minorities are saying they could make a big stink about it and either control the system to eliminate what they dont like or draw a lot of attention to an issue and put pressure on the variable factors for change.

If the view girls didn't apologize dont you think white men could put together a boycott faster and more effectively than say an asian rights group? Ironically when a special interest group is trying to leverage advertisers I think the threat usually comes from the how the majority will react if the advertiser is seen as insensitive. They arent as concearned about losing a small group of people they weren't marketing to in the first place, they're worried about the bad press driving away the majority.

[Snacks]

I cant believe Im saying this but I agree with Snacks. Women are ABSOLUTELY allowed more leeway to make fun of men than when the roles are reversed. They absolutely are.

As far as what I would do, well you can ask my wife, I dont apologize if I dont feel Im wrong. Ever. Its cost me a job before. Its gotten my parents called to school. And looking back, I dont regret it at all. I can also see it in my son. Hes 2 1/2 and he doesnt budge if he doesnt want to. Ever. A part of me wishes he would bend a little because I know life can be tough and you can be fucked out things wrongfully if you dont bend to others to accomodate them, even if I dont think you should. But theres a small part of me thats proud of him as well.

Any job that emasculates you and forces you to give an apology you dont mean isnt worth having. I dont care how easy it is or how much it pays. Ive recently had a boss at one of my jobs tell me she didnt like something I put on my Facebook. My reply was simple. Tough shit. Its my personal page. If you dont like it, dont go on my page. But Im not changing what I say or taking anything down. When she asked me what Id do if it threatened my job I told her honestly to go ahead and fire me, Ill just go get a job somewhere else. To me principles are worth more than a job.

I said the same thing to myself when i first responed defending you. Then as I thought about it further we seem to agree a lot more then I thought. Other then Tom Brady and some sports stuff I think we might agree to much to be honest! :help:

[Snacks]

If you're digging your heels in on stuff you dont believe, just on the principle, and you will not consider that you could be incorrect or have 1 specific point of view in a world of other points of view, I see that as a personal fault. That's my opinion, as it is my opinion that this guy was talking out of his ass just to fill time and when it came back to bite him he got stubborn.

Now, Not in that clip you dont see women getting more slack than men.

But this raises a question that comes up a lot in conversations like this. You're talking about a majority/minority relationship. The majority isn't as likely to pipe up about something like language because it has more to lose, and has a vested interest in not reminding the minority of all the ways they are the minority. The king doesn't make fun of the jester, it's extra bad taste that way. Minority groups exist because it is implicit that if you're the majority your interests are already spoken for, a majority interest group is redundant. If white men or just men really felt put out by stuff that minorities are saying they could make a big stink about it and either control the system to eliminate what they dont like or draw a lot of attention to an issue and put pressure on the variable factors for change.

If the view girls didn't apologize dont you think white men could put together a boycott faster and more effectively than say an asian rights group? Ironically when a special interest group is trying to leverage advertisers I think the threat usually comes from the how the majority will react if the advertiser is seen as insensitive. They arent as concearned about losing a small group of people they weren't marketing to in the first place, they're worried about the bad press driving away the majority.

the reason i believe most of the times that men dont complain is men will get even more shit for being too sensitive or bitching about shit. there is a no win situation for men.

[TripleSkeet]

If you're digging your heels in on stuff you dont believe, just on the principle, and you will not consider that you could be incorrect or have 1 specific point of view in a world of other points of view, I see that as a personal fault. That's my opinion, as it is my opinion that this guy was talking out of his ass just to fill time and when it came back to bite him he got stubborn.

I dont know where I said I dig my heels in on stuff I dont believe. I dont do that. Its stuff I do believe. Im willing to listen to other points of view and have a back and forth discussion all day, but at the end of the day, if I think Im right, I think Im right. Im never gonna be the guy thats tells you what you want to hear just to keep you happy. I feel the same way about apologizing if Im not sorry. I wont do it. Its funny, my Italian descent comes from Calabria, and they say in Italy they describe the Calabrese as "hard heads". Growing up I was told that I was a perfect example of this more times then I could count. It bothers me that now its seen as a negative trait. To me being disengenuous and phony are the worst things a person can be.......besides gay.

But this raises a question that comes up a lot in conversations like this. You're talking about a majority/minority relationship. The majority isn't as likely to pipe up about something like language because it has more to lose, and has a vested interest in not reminding the minority of all the ways they are the minority. The king doesn't make fun of the jester, it's extra bad taste that way. Minority groups exist because it is implicit that if you're the majority your interests are already spoken for, a majority interest group is redundant. If white men or just men really felt put out by stuff that minorities are saying they could make a big stink about it and either control the system to eliminate what they dont like or draw a lot of attention to an issue and put pressure on the variable factors for change.

I disagree. White men pretty much have lost their right to speak up about defending themselves in this country. Because whenever they even try to point it out, its usually met with "White men are doing fine. Look at all the rich white people in this country." Great. But thats not the majority of white people. Or they bring up how "White men had it made for hundreds of years" Great. Again that wasnt me. Its to the point where white men need to be treated worse as a way to make up the the inequalities of the past. Some people think thats fair, Im just not one of them. In my eyes, if everyone wants to be equal they should all be treated equally.

I would say maybe white guys dont cause a stink because they have more of a sense of humor then women or minorities do, but I know thats not true. Most minorities feel the same way, its the vocal few that claim to speak for all of the others that are the problem. In situations like this, or the Imus firing, what really wouldve happened if they hadnt fired these guys or forced them to apologize? Nothing. People wouldve forgotten about it and moved on. But once they realize companies will cowtow and fire people if you make empty threats, then others are sure to follow, as has been seen. Whats left is a bland boring society where you cant laugh at anyone for fear of "offending" others. Making fun of people is now being attacked by media types as a form of bullying. Its getting ridiculous.

[Snacks]

I dont know where I said I dig my heels in on stuff I dont believe. I dont do that. Its stuff I do believe. Im willing to listen to other points of view and have a back and forth discussion all day, but at the end of the day, if I think Im right, I think Im right. Im never gonna be the guy thats tells you what you want to hear just to keep you happy. I feel the same way about apologizing if Im not sorry. I wont do it. Its funny, my Italian descent comes from Calabria, and they say in Italy they describe the Calabrese as "hard heads". Growing up I was told that I was a perfect example of this more times then I could count. It bothers me that now its seen as a negative trait. To me being disengenuous and phony are the worst things a person can be.......besides gay.



I disagree. White men pretty much have lost their right to speak up about defending themselves in this country. Because whenever they even try to point it out, its usually met with "White men are doing fine. Look at all the rich white people in this country." Great. But thats not the majority of white people. Or they bring up how "White men had it made for hundreds of years" Great. Again that wasnt me. Its to the point where white men need to be treated worse as a way to make up the the inequalities of the past. Some people think thats fair, Im just not one of them. In my eyes, if everyone wants to be equal they should all be treated equally.

I would say maybe white guys dont cause a stink because they have more of a sense of humor then women or minorities do, but I know thats not true. Most minorities feel the same way, its the vocal few that claim to speak for all of the others that are the problem. In situations like this, or the Imus firing, what really wouldve happened if they hadnt fired these guys or forced them to apologize? Nothing. People wouldve forgotten about it and moved on. But once they realize companies will cowtow and fire people if you make empty threats, then others are sure to follow, as has been seen. Whats left is a bland boring society where you cant laugh at anyone for fear of "offending" others. Making fun of people is now being attacked by media types as a form of bullying. Its getting ridiculous.

ok maybe we dont agree on A LOT of stuff i forgot you are racist and homophobic at times!. I hope youre joking about that?

[underdog]

ok maybe we dont agree on A LOT of stuff i forgot you are racist and homophobic at times!. I hope youre joking about that?

Do you listen to the show this board is based on?

[TripleSkeet]

Do you listen to the show this board is based on?

Thank you. :lol:

[TripleSkeet]

ok maybe we dont agree on A LOT of stuff i forgot you are racist and homophobic at times!. I hope youre joking about that?

Racist sometimes. For the record my brother is gay as well as one of my best friends. Ive got no problem with the fags.

[realmenhatelife]

I dont know where I said I dig my heels in on stuff I dont believe. I dont do that. Its stuff I do believe. Im willing to listen to other points of view and have a back and forth discussion all day, but at the end of the day, if I think Im right, I think Im right. Im never gonna be the guy thats tells you what you want to hear just to keep you happy. I feel the same way about apologizing if Im not sorry. I wont do it. Its funny, my Italian descent comes from Calabria, and they say in Italy they describe the Calabrese as "hard heads". Growing up I was told that I was a perfect example of this more times then I could count. It bothers me that now its seen as a negative trait. To me being disengenuous and phony are the worst things a person can be.......besides gay.



I disagree. White men pretty much have lost their right to speak up about defending themselves in this country. Because whenever they even try to point it out, its usually met with "White men are doing fine. Look at all the rich white people in this country." Great. But thats not the majority of white people. Or they bring up how "White men had it made for hundreds of years" Great. Again that wasnt me. Its to the point where white men need to be treated worse as a way to make up the the inequalities of the past. Some people think thats fair, Im just not one of them. In my eyes, if everyone wants to be equal they should all be treated equally.

I would say maybe white guys dont cause a stink because they have more of a sense of humor then women or minorities do, but I know thats not true. Most minorities feel the same way, its the vocal few that claim to speak for all of the others that are the problem. In situations like this, or the Imus firing, what really wouldve happened if they hadnt fired these guys or forced them to apologize? Nothing. People wouldve forgotten about it and moved on. But once they realize companies will cowtow and fire people if you make empty threats, then others are sure to follow, as has been seen. Whats left is a bland boring society where you cant laugh at anyone for fear of "offending" others. Making fun of people is now being attacked by media types as a form of bullying. Its getting ridiculous.

I dont know you but I'll take your word on it, I do however think sports guys are the absolute scum of journalism and are constantly saying things they dont believe just to perpetuate their format. I think if you offered Angelo Cataldi a dollar more than he gets now he'd do mornings in Dallas tomorrow. And that's what I believe of this guy who is just shouting nonsense without thinking about it and when someone said to him "This isn't the product we want to put out." he dug his heels in. Even if he is the kind of guy that really, truly believes he needs to point out that this woman is big, that he would describe that as part of his belief system, then he's an even bigger douche bag than just a typical loudmouth valueless sports guy. We're all Sicilians in my family, and growing up I knew lots of loud mouths who didn't know shit but insisted they knew everything, and they really wanted to let you know it, and believed it was true just because it came out of their mouths, and I said to myself I will NEVER be one of these assholes.

I'm a white guy with no money and I think I can say anything at any time. Someone telling you that they dont like what you're saying isn't the same as limiting free speech. I never bought that argument that one side just needs to keep their mouths shut in the spirit of free speech. That's a contradiction, keep your mouth shut can never be the answer for free speech. There are more consequences to free speech now but most of that comes from corporate culture. Take Imus. I didn't think what Imus said was racist, I understand how someone might take it as racist. That's a difference of opinion and even if he meant to be racist no broadcaster is dumb enough to come out and say 'Yeah I was making a black joke because you know what their hair is like.' The company Imus works for punishes him, so why are we mad at the people who think what he said was racist? Why arent they free to express their opinion? Their right to protest and assemble and boycott, which is constitutional. The only person to be mad at in this situation, to me, is the company who said that they value the potential lost revenue over Imus and his product.

I would like to hear about instances where white people are institutionally treated worse as some form of reparations, that is an experience I havent had and I cant imagine what you mean.

Consider that in this country it was much less permissable for minorities to express themselves freely and that the majority is not used to things coming into their realm of experience that arent tailored specifically for them, or any kind of descenting point of view. Any kind of change is very unsettling and everyone has an urge to maintain the status quo, even if the status quo isn't good for them. The status quo has been really good for white guys so if we really want to get into equality it's going to seem like we're losing something even though we're just evening out.

[TripleSkeet]

I'm a white guy with no money and I think I can say anything at any time. Someone telling you that they dont like what you're saying isn't the same as limiting free speech. I never bought that argument that one side just needs to keep their mouths shut in the spirit of free speech. That's a contradiction, keep your mouth shut can never be the answer for free speech. There are more consequences to free speech now but most of that comes from corporate culture. Take Imus. I didn't think what Imus said was racist, I understand how someone might take it as racist. That's a difference of opinion and even if he meant to be racist no broadcaster is dumb enough to come out and say 'Yeah I was making a black joke because you know what their hair is like.' The company Imus works for punishes him, so why are we mad at the people who think what he said was racist? Why arent they free to express their opinion? Their right to protest and assemble and boycott, which is constitutional. The only person to be mad at in this situation, to me, is the company who said that they value the potential lost revenue over Imus and his product.

I would like to hear about instances where white people are institutionally treated worse as some form of reparations, that is an experience I havent had and I cant imagine what you mean.

Consider that in this country it was much less permissable for minorities to express themselves freely and that the majority is not used to things coming into their realm of experience that arent tailored specifically for them, or any kind of descenting point of view. Any kind of change is very unsettling and everyone has an urge to maintain the status quo, even if the status quo isn't good for them. The status quo has been really good for white guys so if we really want to get into equality it's going to seem like we're losing something even though we're just evening out.

Its not about being treated worse, its about being held to a different standard then others. Black radio shows make fun of white people all the time. Women television shows make fun of men constantly, yet its all considered acceptible humor. Yet if a white radio host specifically makes fun of a black person for being black, theyre career is over. Mocking women is starting to also become taboo anymore. Its ridiculous. Personally I think in the context of comedy nothing should be off limits. Thats just a personal opinion of mine. If you get offended your only option should be to change the channel and not listen / watch. You shouldnt be able to bully companies to fire people because you got your feelings hurt. Again, my personal opinion.

Its used to be like that. Where a persons employer would actually support their employee. Like you said, its a corporate culture now. That kind of support is gone. If theres a chance they might lose one nickel, they cut the employee. Thats corporate loyalty. Its one of the many things I despise about corporate culture. I really feel the whole corporate idealology is whats ruining our country. The thing that bothers me most is what costs these people their jobs isnt actual boycotts, its the THREAT of a boycott. For once Id like someone to actually back their employee, wait to see if theres actually a boycott that directly shows lost revenue, and then make the decision to fire their employee. Because basically I feel people in this country are too lazy and accustomed to immediate gratification to ever truly boycott anything again. Could you imagine people saying they are going to boycott Walmart? Or Coca Cola? or anything they use regularly? It would never happen.

[realmenhatelife]

Its not about being treated worse, its about being held to a different standard then others. Black radio shows make fun of white people all the time. Women television shows make fun of men constantly, yet its all considered acceptible humor. Yet if a white radio host specifically makes fun of a black person for being black, theyre career is over. Mocking women is starting to also become taboo anymore. Its ridiculous. Personally I think in the context of comedy nothing should be off limits. Thats just a personal opinion of mine. If you get offended your only option should be to change the channel and not listen / watch. You shouldnt be able to bully companies to fire people because you got your feelings hurt. Again, my personal opinion.

Its used to be like that. Where a persons employer would actually support their employee. Like you said, its a corporate culture now. That kind of support is gone. If theres a chance they might lose one nickel, they cut the employee. Thats corporate loyalty. Its one of the many things I despise about corporate culture. I really feel the whole corporate idealology is whats ruining our country. The thing that bothers me most is what costs these people their jobs isnt actual boycotts, its the THREAT of a boycott. For once Id like someone to actually back their employee, wait to see if theres actually a boycott that directly shows lost revenue, and then make the decision to fire their employee. Because basically I feel people in this country are too lazy and accustomed to immediate gratification to ever truly boycott anything again. Could you imagine people saying they are going to boycott Walmart? Or Coca Cola? or anything they use regularly? It would never happen.

But I dont think there is a different standard, Anthony makes fun of black people, specific black people, all the time. The Talk girls in that clip were made to apologize for making fun of a white guy getting his dick cut off. That whole black morning crew got fired for doing the tsunami song. Tracy Morgan kept his job on network TV. I dont think anyone is immune. Context is always the most important thing and that doesn't have anything to do with the race or gender of the speaker. And at the end of the day you are still legally, constitutionally permitted to say whatever you want about anyone you want. There's no legal responsibility that people are going to pay you for it, or enjoy it, but you're allowed to post it on the internet or self publish a book or just talk to your friends.

I've already said my piece about these offended parties needing to maintain their right to complain/boycott/protest as free speech, so I wont rehash it. But also think why might a minority group be so invested in addressing a negative stereotype in media? Think about how many people that stereotype reaches, and how many people are morons who just believe what they see on TV. Or look at the lack of judgement and tact people have, who cant tell when something is done in sport and when something is inappropriate. So if I see a negative stereotype on TV as part of a joke and noone is complaining about it that must mean the joke is always ok to perpetuate. I'm just saying I totally get why you might not want to keep your mouth shut if someone is making your whole race or gender look like an asshole, especially when that race or gender has a history of being descriminated against. You might find that a much more sensitive subject.

I dont like how little dialogue happens in the whoel scenerio. I would like for an environment where the offended party can explain why they're offended, and the offending party can explain their intent, and you can apologize without assuming guilt if thats what you choose to do, or you can leave it where it is and deal with the consequences if thats what happens too. It is possible to be sorry you offended someone for soemthing you didn't mean. But our current system is 1 side is screaming about how pissed they are and the other side either immediately and meaninglessly apologizing or refusing to listen to whats going on. We would get to a place where these things arent instant crisis if for awhile we just tried talking to eachother.

[TripleSkeet]

I agree to a point. The apology is just ridiculous because it comes with no discussion, no explanation, nothing. Its just a way of emasculating the person like they were a child. And its usually followed with a termination anyway. The people apologized to either dont accept it, or accept it and want the guys job anyway.

For the record, Stereotypes arent just made up. They are usually based on some kind of trends. Do ALL Italians enjoy eating pasta? No. Do most? In my experience, yes. Do ALL black people like buffalo wings and tip like shit? No. Do a large portion of them? Again, in my experience, yes. Do ALL Irish people enjoy drinking their face off? No. Do ALOT of them? Again, based on my experience, yes. You can never really say ALL people do anything, but youll find alot of stereotypes have some pretty firm roots. But in 2012 even mentioning something like this spurs this bullshit phony outrage and shock. Like your trying to start a klan rally. Its almost taboo to even discuss such things.

[realmenhatelife]

I agree to a point. The apology is just ridiculous because it comes with no discussion, no explanation, nothing. Its just a way of emasculating the person like they were a child. And its usually followed with a termination anyway. The people apologized to either dont accept it, or accept it and want the guys job anyway.

For the record, Stereotypes arent just made up. They are usually based on some kind of trends. Do ALL Italians enjoy eating pasta? No. Do most? In my experience, yes. Do ALL black people like buffalo wings and tip like shit? No. Do a large portion of them? Again, in my experience, yes. Do ALL Irish people enjoy drinking their face off? No. Do ALOT of them? Again, based on my experience, yes. You can never really say ALL people do anything, but youll find alot of stereotypes have some pretty firm roots. But in 2012 even mentioning something like this spurs this bullshit phony outrage and shock. Like your trying to start a klan rally. Its almost taboo to even discuss such things.

Yes and no on stereotypes. Because you also have to remember that stereotypes are perpetuated by racism. How realistic is blackface? Or to say that black people like fried chicken and watermelon? Who the fuck doesn't like fried chicken and watermelon? Or Jeremy Lin comes off the bench for the Nicks and instantly becomes a phenom, and one of the first things anyone has to say about him is he has a small dick. Just this morning Anthony is yelling that 98% of the people on First 48 are black and his implication is that black people are criminals, not at all taking into consideration the media bias that shows, that white people would rather watch a show about black people getting locked up than other white people. And he certainly isn't bringing up how Hoarders, Intervention, and every Vanguard Oxycotin special are all white people. Do black people really tip badly or do servers just remember that more because of the stereotype? Were these people raised to tip badly? Is there a relation to poverty, or a history of poverty? My grandparents tip like shit because they grew up during the depression. Anyway, stereotypes are generally misapplied in my opinion.

[TripleSkeet]

Yes and no on stereotypes. Because you also have to remember that stereotypes are perpetuated by racism. How realistic is blackface? Or to say that black people like fried chicken and watermelon? Who the fuck doesn't like fried chicken and watermelon? Or Jeremy Lin comes off the bench for the Nicks and instantly becomes a phenom, and one of the first things anyone has to say about him is he has a small dick. Just this morning Anthony is yelling that 98% of the people on First 48 are black and his implication is that black people are criminals, not at all taking into consideration the media bias that shows, that white people would rather watch a show about black people getting locked up than other white people. And he certainly isn't bringing up how Hoarders, Intervention, and every Vanguard Oxycotin special are all white people. Do black people really tip badly or do servers just remember that more because of the stereotype? Were these people raised to tip badly? Is there a relation to poverty, or a history of poverty? My grandparents tip like shit because they grew up during the depression. Anyway, stereotypes are generally misapplied in my opinion.

Well obviously not all stereotypes are true, I know that. But alot of them are pretty spot on. There could be alot of reasons why of course, its not just some natural predetermined thing. I think for years women got the whole bad driver rap because for a long time women didnt do alot of driving, and when they did they would be preoccupied with stuff men never dealt with like makeup and such which could distract them.

The tipping thing is truth though. Its not just me remembering. Ask just about any server or bartender in any part of the country and youll find the same things said. At one job we had to take a sensitivity training class. 3 hours, led by a black guy. After making us list all kinds of stereotypes we had learned, the first thing he said is, "I know alot of black people dont tip." Even he had no idea why this was. Told me even his father in law, who had money and had no problem picking up a check, for some reason didnt know how to tip well. I used to wait on Allen Iverson weekly. Hed run up $800 tabs and leave nothing until I finally said something to him. I dont know why it is.

[realmenhatelife]

Well obviously not all stereotypes are true, I know that. But alot of them are pretty spot on. There could be alot of reasons why of course, its not just some natural predetermined thing. I think for years women got the whole bad driver rap because for a long time women didnt do alot of driving, and when they did they would be preoccupied with stuff men never dealt with like makeup and such which could distract them.

The tipping thing is truth though. Its not just me remembering. Ask just about any server or bartender in any part of the country and youll find the same things said. At one job we had to take a sensitivity training class. 3 hours, led by a black guy. After making us list all kinds of stereotypes we had learned, the first thing he said is, "I know alot of black people dont tip." Even he had no idea why this was. Told me even his father in law, who had money and had no problem picking up a check, for some reason didnt know how to tip well. I used to wait on Allen Iverson weekly. Hed run up $800 tabs and leave nothing until I finally said something to him. I dont know why it is.

I've heard the tipping thing from all different people to. And we could mathematically determine how the races tip and it wouldn't be racist or a stereotype to show that black people are less likely to tip than whites. There are lots of reasons why, and I think if the only reason to a person is "They're black" thats when it becomes a stereotype and thats when it's negative. The truth can exist if you're willing to understand the whys, race is never a why, there is no tipping gene.

[Snacks]

I've heard the tipping thing from all different people to. And we could mathematically determine how the races tip and it wouldn't be racist or a stereotype to show that black people are less likely to tip than whites. There are lots of reasons why, and I think if the only reason to a person is "They're black" thats when it becomes a stereotype and thats when it's negative. The truth can exist if you're willing to understand the whys, race is never a why, there is no tipping gene.

there might not be a gene but people are a product of their environment and like it or not this country is very segregated and people especially in citys and the suburbs of metropolitan areas live mainly among people similar to who they are. Go to most neighborhoods in these areas and you will see blacks mainly living among blacks, italians living among lots of italians, latinos living among latinos, asaians living among asians, jews living among jews etc. when your a product of your environment and surroundings you wind of having a lot of similarities among your people/area. Like TS said no one group is ever all to 1 stereotype but the reason so many stereotypes seems to have some truth to them has a lot to do with how and the environment in which you are raised.

[realmenhatelife]

there might not be a gene but people are a product of their environment and like it or not this country is very segregated and people especially in citys and the suburbs of metropolitan areas live mainly among people similar to who they are. Go to most neighborhoods in these areas and you will see blacks mainly living among blacks, italians living among lots of italians, latinos living among latinos, asaians living among asians, jews living among jews etc. when your a product of your environment and surroundings you wind of having a lot of similarities among your people/area. Like TS said no one group is ever all to 1 stereotype but the reason so many stereotypes seems to have some truth to them has a lot to do with how and the environment in which you are raised.

Like it or not believing a stereotype helps perpetuate it too. If you were black and every time you go out to eat the server feels shafted because you were seated in their section you're gonna pick up on it, and feel less inclined to tip.
In my experience neighborhoods arent nearly as delineated anymore as you're making them out to be.

[TripleSkeet]

Like it or not believing a stereotype helps perpetuate it too. If you were black and every time you go out to eat the server feels shafted because you were seated in their section you're gonna pick up on it, and feel less inclined to tip.
In my experience neighborhoods arent nearly as delineated anymore as you're making them out to be.

I dont know where you live, but they are around here. Blacks, Asians, Italians, Irish...they all have their own neighborhoods. Are there other nationalities living there too? Of course, but its like a 90/10 split.

You may not like the stereotype, but blame those that cause it. If 9 times out of 10 I wait on a black guy he doesnt tip me, expecting me to believe your gonna be that black guy that does just so Im not stereotyping you is just foolish and unrealistic. Instead do some speaking out among your people and try to get them to change the way they are. Its funny, I worked with a couple black bartenders and barbacks, and they would say more racist shit against other blacks, and I mean HATEFUL racist shit, stuff that would make me blush, then anything I had ever heard from white bartenders. They were that mad that these guys were perpetuating negative stereotypes and making them look bad, instead of getting mad at those that eventually came to expect that type of behavior.