Benghazi, IRS, and Wiretaps - Will any of it stick?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

He's just another corrupt prick from Chicago

[spoon]

The GM bailout was done when the Democrats were in majority

I blame Boehner and McConnell for not calling out the administration with its circumventing of congress


How far should the president go? Should he be fitted for a faux military uniform ?

blame them for not being an idiot on this one like you?

and perhaps this far?

http://asecular.com/ran/0310/usslincoln_files/bush-nicesmile.jpg

[spoon]

He's just another corrupt prick from Chicago

so you're just talking to yourself in the end AGAIN

[WRESTLINGFAN]

blame them for not being an idiot on this one like you?

and perhaps this far?

http://asecular.com/ran/0310/usslincoln_files/bush-nicesmile.jpg


Obama didn't wear a flight suit but he kept parroting on how Bin Laden is dead and Al Qaeda is decimated

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Guess Barack never heard of Hamas, Hezbollah, Abu Sayyef and some of the offshoots of Al Qaeda like Ansar al Sharia

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Lois Lerner put on administrative leave

[brettmojo]

Lois Lerner put on administrative leave
Superman won't be happy.

[hanso]

blame them for not being an idiot on this one like you?

and perhaps this far?

http://asecular.com/ran/0310/usslincoln_files/bush-nicesmile.jpg

Loved ya on that cartoon show ha yaw!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

The excuse of Doug Shulman being appointed by the last administration is like saying my dog ate my homework

[Syd]

Al Qaeda is decimated. Unless we try to kill every single person ever, there will be other people with similar interests and goals as other people on the planet.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Where are the cries of racism and disrespect to Barack?

Yesterday a middle aged white woman was heckling our 1st black president.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

No they're not. Once someone high ranking is killed someone else moves up the chain. Al Qaeda is kind of like a franchise with many spinoffs

[hanso]

Where are the cries of racism and disrespect to Barack?

Yesterday a middle aged white woman was heckling our 1st black president.

Yeah just some middle aged white woman

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Wasn't it the leader of Code Pink?

Racist that she is. Nobody interrupts Barack.

[Syd]

No they're not. Once someone high ranking is killed someone else moves up the chain. Al Qaeda is kind of like a franchise with many spinoffs

al qaeda as a group is decimated, period, there's no one left to move up the chain

[SonOfSmeagol]

last week:

holder: "In regard to potential prosecution of the press for the disclosure of material. This is not something I’ve ever been involved in, heard of, or would think would be wise policy."


this week:

DOJ confirms Holder OK'd search warrant for Fox News reporter's emails (http://openchannel.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/05/23/18451142-doj-confirms-holder-okd-search-warrant-for-fox-news-reporters-emails)

obama: "And I’ve raised these issues with the Attorney General, who shares my concerns. So he has agreed to review existing Department of Justice guidelines governing investigations that involve reporters, and he’ll...report back to me by July 12th."


well that's comforting!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

AQ is not gone, The Powers that be are saying that for fluff and the low info voters gobble it up

[spoon]

mmmm

there's another one to "gobble up"

low info voters...translation, anyone not on my same page and votes another way

[Syd]

AQ is not gone, The Powers that be are saying that for fluff and the low info voters gobble it up

if we're getting technical, al qaeda never really existed

however, al qaeda as operated by bin laden and others is kaput

al qaeda as a boogeyman group that you espouse never existed, it's an umbrella "kilroy was here" for groups that wanted street cred

[hanso]

<param name="movie" value="http://embed.crooksandliars.com/v/MjczMTYtNjkzODA?color=C93033" /><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="quality" value="high" /><param name="wmode" value="transparent" /><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always" /><embed src="http://embed.crooksandliars.com/v/MjczMTYtNjkzODA?color=C93033" quality="high" wmode="transparent" width="440" height="366" allowfullscreen="true" name="clembedMjczMTYtNjkzODA" align="middle" quality="high" allowScriptAccess="always" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" pluginspage="http://www.adobe.com/go/getflashplayer"></embed></object>

STEWART: Now, think hard Peggy Noonan. Never in your lifetime have you seen a scandal this bad?

Check out the face she makes

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Holder wants to have off the record meetings with the media

So far the AP and NY Times have said fuck off

[WRESTLINGFAN]

If Holder ends up resigning, he still wins. He will either go back to private practice, become an adjunct professor or become an analyst like the combover captain David Axelrod did

[spoon]

Classic. You almost made it through one post...almost.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Once Miller leaves the IRS he will go to some lobbying firm or think tank. DC is a gagglefuck of inbreds in politics married to people in the media in turn married to lobbyists. It's an incestuous web of quasi elites.

It is like Versailles on the Potomac

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Eric Holder is being compared to Moses. Barack to Jesus


Don't wanna be in that religion

[spoon]

Sigh

[WRESTLINGFAN]

For Holder, The burning bush is actually the constitution

[spoon]

Oof

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Barack uses a TelePrompTer for the sermon on the temple mount

[spoon]

just fucking shut up

[WRESTLINGFAN]

The leper can't be cured because it's not covered under Obamacare. Judas sells him out for 30 shares of GM stock

[WRESTLINGFAN]

All hail big government


http://thehill.com/video/in-the-news/302899-more-trouble-for-the-irs

[SonOfSmeagol]

take me to your leader, cause I can't find him

http://cdn01.cdn.egotastic.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/01/IRS-Parody-220x165.jpg

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Might be another scandal

HHS Sec Cruella Sebelius is trying to shake down companies in regards to Obamacare

[WRESTLINGFAN]

The IRS was given 2 weeks to turn over pertinent info. They were given a week extension and they still didn't comply.


Try that measure with the IRS and see what happens

[hanso]

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/U6Qbm0rN-lc?feature=player_embedded" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Turn the IRS practice of thuggery against them. Padlock their offices and garnish their funding.


They failed to comply

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Hey Verizon customers


What's your view that the NSA is keeping your records?

That Barack. Champion of civil liberties

[Dude!]

Hey Verizon customers


What's your view that the NSA is keeping your records?

That Barack. Champion of civil liberties

It will turn out not to be
just Verizon, by the way

the low-IQ cabal
(Hanso, Spoon, etc)
will find a way to defend this
as a wonderful thing

[WRESTLINGFAN]

It will turn out not to be
just Verizon, by the way

the low-IQ cabal
(Hanso, Spoon, etc)
will find a way to defend this
as a wonderful thing


As well as torture and militarism. It's been sexy since 2009

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Another hearing on the IRS abuses today.

I wonder if the guy who played Mr Spock in that video will wear his Spock ears to the hearing

Rake these fuckers thru the coals.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Batshittery isn't just Chris Matthews and Al Sharpton

While there's no proof that Barack was calling the IRS directly. It's a stretch by this pseudo intellectual

http://www.ijreview.com/2013/06/57224-msnbc-loon-bashire-when-republicans-say-irs-theyre-really-calling-obama-the-n-word/

[spoon]

It will turn out not to be
just Verizon, by the way

the low-IQ cabal
(Hanso, Spoon, etc)
will find a way to defend this
as a wonderful thing

Nobody once was on board here with these type policies. So pathetic attempt once again to link this up. And why do you still post like an idiot? I am referring to the form, not the normal stupidity of your content.

[hanso]

eww had to read a dude comment.

It's called waiting on more of the story to come out not fly off handle over
everything when the right makes up so much garbage.

The Same Federal Judge Who Struck Down Obamacare Approved The Government's Sweeping Collection Of Phone Records

http://www.businessinsider.com/nsa-verizon-wiretap-judge-obamacare-roger-vinson-2013-6

must be a Lib. right? ^

also read this has been going on for 7 years

[hanso]

REVEALED: NSA Is Collecting Phone Records Of Millions Of Americans Daily

Under the terms of the blanket order, the numbers of both parties on a call are handed over, as is location data, call duration, unique identifiers, and the time and duration of all calls. The contents of the conversation itself are not covered.

The information is classed as "metadata", or transactional information, rather than communications, and so does not require individual warrants to access.

The NSA, as part of a program secretly authorized by President Bush on 4 October 2001, implemented a bulk collection program of domestic telephone, internet and email records. A furore erupted in 2006 when USA Today reported that the NSA had "been secretly collecting the phone call records of tens of millions of Americans, using data provided by AT&T, Verizon and BellSouth" and was "using the data to analyze calling patterns in an effort to detect terrorist activity." Until now, there has been no indication that the Obama administration implemented a similar program.

http://www.businessinsider.com/nsa-collecting-phone-records-of-americans-2013-6

article originally appeared on guardian.co.uk

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/06/nsa-phone-records-verizon-court-order

My guess is there was word of an attack, then they did this and it leaked.

Can you Hezbollah me now?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

It was wrong then and wrong now.

The PA was passed in 2001 and is sadly still in place.

Barack was supposed to be the champion of civil liberties . Anything to make tens of millions of rubes vote for him twice

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Can you monitor me now ?

Si Se puede !!!!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Nobody once was on board here with these type policies. So pathetic attempt once again to link this up. And why do you still post like an idiot? I am referring to the form, not the normal stupidity of your content.



While you're opposed to the NDAA and PA, you still show support for the TSA and their practice of guilt before innocence and berating passengers

[hanso]

It was wrong then and wrong now.

The PA was passed in 2001 and is sadly still in place.

Barack was supposed to be the champion of civil liberties . Anything to make tens of millions of rubes vote for him twice

The fiddling of it didn't leak for 5 years.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

It's still wrong that it's being practiced today.


Amazing how the Feds can't find all these foreign students who have never stepped in a classroom but they can data mine a call to order Chinese takeout.


That fucking idiot Lindsey Graham is ok with all of this

[hanso]

I meant went when it was first implemented under Bush. It was leaked fast this time like everything else ( transparency )

[SonOfSmeagol]

I meant went when it was first implemented under Bush. It was leaked fast this time like everything else ( transparency )

a newspaper story based on a leak is exactly what happens when you DON'T have transparency.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

So what's the theme of the next IRS shindig ?

[Jujubees2]

So what's the theme of the next IRS shindig ?

It should be a Tea Party!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

There's 2 sets of rules .

The ruling class at the IRS can't seem to find receipts and records

For us if we can't provide our paperwork, we could face harsh penalties

[SonOfSmeagol]

say it ain't so, Grey Lady

nyt editorial board: President Obama’s (FBI, NSA) Dragnet. (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/07/opinion/president-obamas-dragnet.html?pagewanted=1&_r=2&)

The administration has now lost all credibility on this issue. Mr. Obama is proving the truism that the executive will use any power it is given and very likely abuse it.
...
Mr. Obama clearly had no intention of revealing this eavesdropping, just as he would not have acknowledged the killing of Anwar al-Awlaki, an American citizen, had it not been reported in the press.

pretty scathing throughout, though there are subtle undertones that somehow it's the Patriot Act itself that's at true fault rather than the guy, who happens to O, who uses it. it is, after all, the nyt

[Syd]

remember when the liberals were telling the chickenhawks how allowing the intelligence community into every facet of their life would come back and bite them in the ass when their guy wasn't in the whitehouse?

well, now there's an atheist communist nazi muslim with the same power as the dubmeister

[PapaBear]

With exception of a few Dems, most of both sides of Congress are all for this. In other words, they're ALL assholes.

[SonOfSmeagol]

With exception of a few Dems, most of both sides of Congress are all for this. In other words, they're ALL assholes.

yep, pretty much

senate votes for Patriot Act, 98-1 (http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=107&session=1&vote=00313)

house votes for Patriot Act, 357-66 (http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2001/roll398.xml)

and the reauths later were up there too

[PapaBear]

I was actually referring to how they still feel about it now, but yeah... That's a good indication.

[SonOfSmeagol]

you're right - the reactions/support from both sides is pretty amazing. *puts on foil hat and asks*: what do they know?

[brettmojo]

Bomb Bomb Bomb Bomb Bomb Bomb Bomb Bomb Bomb Bomb Bomb Bomb Bomb
Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama Obama
Washington Washington Washington Washington Washington Washington
Assassinate Assassinate Assassinate Assassinate Assassinate Assassinate
Flotus Flotus Flotus Flotus Flotus Flotus Flotus Flotus Flotus Flotus
Bin Laden Bin Laden Bin Laden Bin Laden Bin Laden Bin Laden Bin Laden
Crock Pot Crock Pot Crock Pot Crock Pot Crock Pot Crock Pot Crock Pot
Ala Akbar Ala Akbar Ala Akbar Ala Akbar Ala Akbar Ala Akbar Ala Akbar
Muhammad Muhammad Muhammad Muhammad Muhammad Muhammad
Boston Bombing Boston Bombing Boston Bombing Boston Bombing Boston
World Trade Center World Trade Center World Trade Center World Trade
9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11
Blow Up Congress Blow Up Congress Blow Up Congress Blow Up Congress
Suicide Bomber Suicide Bomber Suicide Bomber Suicide Bomber Suicide
Nsa Nsa Nsa Nsa Nsa Nsa Nsa Nsa Nsa Nsa Nsa Nsa Nsa Nsa Nsa Nsa Nsa Nsa Nsa

[Dude!]

well, now there's an atheist communist nazi muslim with the same power as the dubmeister

he is not a nazi

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Where do you get one of those squirting fish ?

[SonOfSmeagol]

it's a gag, right? a joke?

Through a top-secret program authorized by federal judges working under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA), the U.S. intelligence community can gain access to the servers of nine Internet companies for a wide range of digital data. (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/politics/prism-collection-documents/)

Documents: U.S. mining data from 9 leading Internet firms; companies deny knowledge (http://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/us-intelligence-mining-data-from-nine-us-internet-companies-in-broad-secret-program/2013/06/06/3a0c0da8-cebf-11e2-8845-d970ccb04497_story.html)

[spoon]

While you're opposed to the NDAA and PA, you still show support for the TSA and their practice of guilt before innocence and berating passengers

sigh

still an idiot huh?

what a shocker

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Barack must be hoping TS Andrea becomes a category 5

[Dude!]

yeah, then Chris Christie
could blow him again
and everyone would be so happy

[hanso]

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/YDlThNhnhlE?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Obama told us to trust him in regards to the latest NSA scandal

Just like to trust him with the economy , Obamacare and everything else?

[spoon]

why yes, obamacare (a bullshit term in itself) and everything else

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Actually Obamacare is a term of endearment. Barack and his minions are proud to say it

[spoon]

they simply tried to take it back

[SonOfSmeagol]

Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind the NSA surveillance revelations ...hanging out in Hong Kong (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/09/edward-snowden-nsa-whistleblower-surveillance)

how bout that UK press

[furie]

a newspaper story based on a leak is exactly what happens when you DON'T have transparency.

exactly! :clap:

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Another potential scandal that the administration has to deal with now.

Now this happened at State but it's just another dark cloud

http://m.cbsnews.com/storysynopsis.rbml?pageType=politics&url=http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57588601/state-dept-dismisses-allegations-of-endemic-misconduct/&catid=57588601

[hanso]

Where is this guy Snowden? Don't nobody got some plows and shovels to get him out? tttssss guns x2 biotch






Rand Paul is tool, let me copy what the ACLU did but chisel money out of people

(sue the us gov over prism )

[hanso]

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/t27ie4qFlXM?feature=player_embedded" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[spoon]

shocker

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Shocker is that Barack is all of a sudden a neo con

[hanso]

<param name="movie" value="http://embed.crooksandliars.com/v/Mjc0MjEtNjk5NTE?color=C93033" /><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="quality" value="high" /><param name="wmode" value="transparent" /><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always" /><embed src="http://embed.crooksandliars.com/v/Mjc0MjEtNjk5NTE?color=C93033" quality="high" wmode="transparent" width="440" height="366" allowfullscreen="true" name="clembedMjc0MjEtNjk5NTE" align="middle" quality="high" allowScriptAccess="always" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" pluginspage="http://www.adobe.com/go/getflashplayer"></embed></object>

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Correction, he's been one for a couple of years

[spoon]

Sure, he didn't join here just as he said until they went unconventional and never started a single ground war. Either he's an AWFUL neo con or you're just an idiot. Smart money is on the latter.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Afghanistan is not going well.


Getting involved in other countries civil wars is being a neocon

Syria might not go well as Assad has weapons and cash coming from Moscow and Tehran with assistance from Hezbollah

[spoon]

Ah ok sure thing wf.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Yea sure thing like foreign fighters going to Syria to join the Jihadist rebels ?

[spoon]

Exactly

[hanso]

Rove: NSA surveillance is OK because fictional cops do it on TV shows

Cheney: Obama has ‘no credibility’ — but the NSA is ‘to be believed’

[hanso]

Afghanistan is not going well.


Getting involved in other countries civil wars is being a neocon

Syria might not go well as Assad has weapons and cash coming from Moscow and Tehran with assistance from Hezbollah

Putin questions why Western powers support Syrian rebels who ‘eat human organs’

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/06/16/putin-questions-why-western-powers-support-syrian-rebels-who-eat-human-organs/

[Jujubees2]

Putin questions why Western powers support Syrian rebels who ‘eat human organs’

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/06/16/putin-questions-why-western-powers-support-syrian-rebels-who-eat-human-organs/

Putin is a thief!


Putin camp: Kraft's story 'weird' (http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/9392090/vladimir-putin-denies-stealing-new-england-patriots-owner-robert-kraft-super-bowl-ring)

[Furtherman]

Question about this NSA "scandal".

Am I missing something? This article is from 2006, yet the journalist was never hailed as a hero NOR deemed a traitor, It says the same thing that Snowden is saying. So technically, this should not shock anyone since the "Patriot Act" hasn't kept quiet about similar practices since 2001. It just smells of a which hunt, and I'm wondering why this is considered such a media darling now? Did he also tweet pictures of his junk? WTF?

Could this just be a distraction that the powers that be are using because there is no more Bin Laden-type bad guy out there now? This "attack" on our freedom is something to unite people in fear?

[spoon]

there really shouldn't be such shock out there overall, but my guess is the outright nature of the presentation leaked, much less the first hand account adds a real life feel to it all

yet under their guy it's fine, under as Colbert put it so perfectly, an ACTUAL big brother (not their guy), the other side is now against it

I was against it under W, against it now and will always be against it. We do need laws to protect abuse at the very least as many have stated, but as we go on over time there is less accountability at the top and with corporations. Basically wherever there is power, funds and PACs, you'll see abuses and bullshit lining the sidelines in the aftermath that we the common man can't even ask for repercussions bc they work them out of the legal code. See Monsanto, Natural Gas/Big Oil and the government on both sides as clear examples.

[Syd]

A black man is president, which means everything he does should be feared. Once a white guy is president again, no one will care.

edit:
seriously, remember when he was going to deliver a video address to schoolchildren and white people flipped totally the fuck out?

ifwhiteamericatoldthetruthforonedayit'sworldwouldf allapart

[deliciousV]

A black man is president, which means everything he does should be feared. Once a white guy is president again, no one will care.

elected and reelected overwhelmingly by white people. Just stop.

Nobody was run thru the ringer more than Bush 2, a Yale/Harvard grad who was painted to be stupid. This president is not being treated any harder by the right than Bush was by the left. Easy to jump on the race card, harder to prove it. And even weaker to try.

[Syd]

elected and reelected overwhelmingly by white people. Just stop.

Nobody was run thru the ringer more than Bush 2, a Yale/Harvard grad who was painted to be stupid. This president is not being treated any harder by the right than Bush was by the left. Easy to jump on the race card, harder to prove it. And even weaker to try.

Bush 2 was a dullard. He crashed and burned a baseball team and he continually handed off important policy decisions to "subordinates" who ran the show. He deliberately ignored multiple warnings of 9/11, deliberately allowed people to die in favor of nepotism (Brown/FEMA) and was routinely shown to be wildly out of his league in foreign relations (unless he was looking into Putin's soul via his eyes, because that's totally not some fucking Taylor Swift song lyric)

Now as far as your other dismissals, Obama earned the least number of white votes by percent of any Democratic presidential candidate since Mondale. The majority of his votes came from whites, but whites in non-racist areas (urban) while the racist areas (suburbs/exurbs/rural) broke for McCain/Romney.

Difference is nowadays white share of voters is continually declining, hence the level of crazy. From Space Admiral Bachmann declaring "Obamacare is the crown jewel of socialism" to fat, white chickenhawks crying about a Marine holding an umbrella over Obama's head. All that shit is to blame because of a black man being president and I couldn't be happier. The global south was due, and they're getting it in slowly but in a truly satisfying way.

[deliciousV]

Bush 2 was a dullard. He crashed and burned a baseball team and he continually handed off important policy decisions to "subordinates" who ran the show. He deliberately ignored multiple warnings of 9/11, deliberately allowed people to die in favor of nepotism (Brown/FEMA) and was routinely shown to be wildly out of his league in foreign relations (unless he was looking into Putin's soul via his eyes, because that's totally not some fucking Taylor Swift song lyric)

Now as far as your other dismissals, Obama earned the least number of white votes by percent of any Democratic presidential candidate since Mondale. The majority of his votes came from whites, but whites in non-racist areas (urban) while the racist areas (suburbs/exurbs/rural) broke for McCain/Romney.

Difference is nowadays white share of voters is continually declining, hence the level of crazy. From Space Admiral Bachmann declaring "Obamacare is the crown jewel of socialism" to fat, white chickenhawks crying about a Marine holding an umbrella over Obama's head. All that shit is to blame because of a black man being president and I couldn't be happier. The global south was due, and they're getting it in slowly but in a truly satisfying way.

you assume that rural people are racist, not taking into account that these same people voted against past white democrats. These are mostly people of faith who ALWAYS vote against pro choice candidates.

[Syd]

you assume that rural people are racist, not taking into account that these same people voted against past white democrats. These are mostly people of faith who ALWAYS vote against pro choice candidates.

Yes, and at one point in time the Republican party was, you know, for a powerful central government. Times change. Racism in rural America doesn't as they continually elect openly racist politicians who follow this man's advice:

You start out in 1954 by saying, “Nigger, nigger, nigger.” By 1968 you can’t say “nigger”—that hurts you, backfires. So you say stuff like, uh, forced busing, states’ rights, and all that stuff, and you’re getting so abstract. Now, you’re talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you’re talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is, blacks get hurt worse than whites.… “We want to cut this,” is much more abstract than even the busing thing, uh, and a hell of a lot more abstract than “Nigger, nigger.”

[deliciousV]

Yes, and at one point in time the Republican party was, you know, for a powerful central government. Times change. Racism in rural America doesn't as they continually elect openly racist politicians who follow this man's advice:

horseshit. Enjoy the kool aid if you are falling for that.

[Syd]

horseshit. Enjoy the kool aid if you are falling for that.

falling for what? that Lee Atwater's strategy in the post-Goldwater era isn't still in use? The Republican party is anti-black because blacks are great scapegoats for rural America to blame for their problems. Well, non-whites because as you can see WF wants to blame everything on hispanics even though WF is a non-white and used to get blamed for problems.

[deliciousV]

falling for what? that Lee Atwater's strategy in the post-Goldwater era isn't still in use? The Republican party is anti-black because blacks are great scapegoats for rural America to blame for their problems. Well, non-whites because as you can see WF wants to blame everything on hispanics even though WF is a non-white and used to get blamed for problems.

what Atwater said in 1981 is repugnant, and his own opinion. The fact that you believe that it's policy among any part of government proves you to be no better than any other conspiracy theory believing redneck.
Every recent president has had his nose bloodied, either by things done under their watch or their own actions, Clinton, a white guy, was impeached for a blowjob. Now your president is catching a little hell, whether deserved or not, for things occurring on his watch, and you cry racism. Bullshit, it goes with the job, he isn't being treated any different than his predecessors.

[Dude!]

Yes, and at one point in time the Republican party was, you know, for a powerful central government. Times change. Racism in rural America doesn't as they continually elect openly racist politicians who follow this man's advice
Quote:
You start out in 1954 by saying, “Nigger, nigger, nigger.” By 1968 you can’t say “nigger”—that hurts you, backfires. So you say stuff like, uh, forced busing, states’ rights, and all that stuff, and you’re getting so abstract. Now, you’re talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you’re talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is, blacks get hurt worse than whites.… “We want to cut this,” is much more abstract than even the busing thing, uh, and a hell of a lot more abstract than “Nigger, nigger.”


like that other phony
fake-dogooding fraud
Bill Moyers,
Syd will take any opportunity
to use the "n" word

i bet he had a boner
after posting that

[WRESTLINGFAN]

like that other phony
fake-dogooding fraud
Bill Moyers,
Syd will take any opportunity
to use the "n" word

i bet he had a boner
after posting that


The same self serving Moyers who was a hit man for LBJ & wasn't too fond of gays

[Syd]

what Atwater said in 1981 is repugnant, and his own opinion. The fact that you believe that it's policy among any part of government proves you to be no better than any other conspiracy theory believing redneck.
Every recent president has had his nose bloodied, either by things done under their watch or their own actions, Clinton, a white guy, was impeached for a blowjob. Now your president is catching a little hell, whether deserved or not, for things occurring on his watch, and you cry racism. Bullshit, it goes with the job, he isn't being treated any different than his predecessors.

Obama isn't my President. I think you're mistaking "defending" with "supporting"

Also, what Atwater said wasn't his own opinion. Crack open a history book and check out who he was and what campaigns he worked for. Then crack open a newspaper and see if there has been any difference in campaigns from back then and right now.

This isn't a conspiracy theory, this is, like, reality and stuff. Sorry you don't actually believe evidence laid bare in front of your eyes. We'll pretend it is all sunshine, sparkle ponies and rainbows, babycakes.

[deliciousV]

Obama isn't my President. I think you're mistaking "defending" with "supporting"

Also, what Atwater said wasn't his own opinion. Crack open a history book and check out who he was and what campaigns he worked for. Then crack open a newspaper and see if there has been any difference in campaigns from back then and right now.

This isn't a conspiracy theory, this is, like, reality and stuff. Sorry you don't actually believe evidence laid bare in front of your eyes. We'll pretend it is all sunshine, sparkle ponies and rainbows, babycakes.

so you believe that every time any republican says cut taxes he's laughing into his hand because he means something else? Did they let Powell and Rice in on the code? See, what you are calling "evidence" is just opinion. You want higher taxes and more programs and giveaways and anybody who doesn't is a racist? And you had no response to the fact that every recent president has had his feet held to the fire, but ,ummm "supporters" of this one get to take the low road and cry racism. You have lost all credibility by trotting that tired bullshit out, you are crippled too high for crutches and just a far left version of WF.

[hanso]

Powell was sent down the river as was the head of the RNC

[Syd]

so you believe that every time any republican says cut taxes he's laughing into his hand because he means something else? Did they let Powell and Rice in on the code? See, what you are calling "evidence" is just opinion. You want higher taxes and more programs and giveaways and anybody who doesn't is a racist? And you had no response to the fact that every recent president has had his feet held to the fire, but ,ummm "supporters" of this one get to take the low road and cry racism. You have lost all credibility by trotting that tired bullshit out, you are crippled too high for crutches and just a far left version of WF.

Yes. The Republican agenda needs a scapegoat (the same as the Democratic agenda needs one) and blacks/non-whites fit the bill. It's not "opinion" it's actual concrete evidence. Let's take another quote from a former head of the RNC:

“From now on, the Republicans are never going to get more than 10 to 20 percent of the Negro vote and they don’t need any more than that…but Republicans would be shortsighted if they weakened enforcement of the Voting Rights Act. The more Negroes who register as Democrats in the South, the sooner the Negrophobe whites will quit the Democrats and become Republicans. That’s where the votes are. Without that prodding from the blacks, the whites will backslide into their old comfortable arrangement with the local Democrats.”

I never said I wanted higher taxes and giveaways, you just assume that because that is what you've been told; that there's a binary choice involved. All I was saying is that "lower taxes" and "state rights" evolved from racist politics because it became effette to drop the n-bomb. Considering that is all that is said, that state rights and low taxes don't happen under any particular party I'm going to go ahead and say that it's about racism. Unless, of course, you can find examples otherwise.

I did have a response to "feet held to the fire" in the original post, when I pointed out that white people flipped their shit when Obama was going to address kindergarteners via a televised speech. Or, when Joe Wilson shouted "you lie" to Obama during a speech. There's a distinct lack of respect for the office, and it's only come about now that there's a non-white holding it. That's racism. Racism isn't about calling someone a nigger or a wetback, it's treating them as unequals. Blacks, non-whites and poor people, are categorized as sub-human and have been for some time (circa 1776 for America)

Let me ask you this, so I can get an idea of how idealized your worldview is:
Were The Troubles caused by differences of opinion of transubstantiation between Protestants and Catholics?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Was it racism when the head of code pink ridiculed and heckled Obama a couple of weeks ago?

[deliciousV]

Yes. The Republican agenda needs a scapegoat (the same as the Democratic agenda needs one) and blacks/non-whites fit the bill. It's not "opinion" it's actual concrete evidence. Let's take another quote from a former head of the RNC:



I never said I wanted higher taxes and giveaways, you just assume that because that is what you've been told; that there's a binary choice involved. All I was saying is that "lower taxes" and "state rights" evolved from racist politics because it became effette to drop the n-bomb. Considering that is all that is said, that state rights and low taxes don't happen under any particular party I'm going to go ahead and say that it's about racism. Unless, of course, you can find examples otherwise.

I did have a response to "feet held to the fire" in the original post, when I pointed out that white people flipped their shit when Obama was going to address kindergarteners via a televised speech. Or, when Joe Wilson shouted "you lie" to Obama during a speech. There's a distinct lack of respect for the office, and it's only come about now that there's a non-white holding it. That's racism. Racism isn't about calling someone a nigger or a wetback, it's treating them as unequals. Blacks, non-whites and poor people, are categorized as sub-human and have been for some time (circa 1776 for America)

Let me ask you this, so I can get an idea of how idealized your worldview is:
Were The Troubles caused by differences of opinion of transubstantiation between Protestants and Catholics?

I don't know what you hope to learn, I'm not Irish. I really don't know enough about that subject to have a solid opinion and really don't feel like doing homework right now. Just off the top of my head, based on other conflicts in history, I'd guess that there was a lot more to it than whether a cracker became flesh, my guess is it ultimately came down to land.

[Syd]

Was it racism when the head of code pink ridiculed and heckled Obama a couple of weeks ago?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2013/05/23/code-pink-founder-medea-benjamin-heckles-obama-repeatedly/

What do you think?

I don't know what you hope to learn, I'm not Irish. I really don't know enough about that subject to have a solid opinion and really don't feel like doing homework right now. Just off the top of my head, based on other conflicts in history, I'd guess that there was a lot more to it than whether a cracker became flesh, my guess is it ultimately came down to land.

It's the same way racism is nuanced nowadays. You get a big, shiny label to easily apply -- Protestants hate Catholics, or in this case, a racist is someone who calls someone a racial epithet.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/12/081217124146.htm

Sums it up. We're all fairly racist to begin with, and with years of propaganda shoveled into our faces. To go back to Atwater, look at the Willie Horton ad and see the demographics of GOP voters nowadays. That ad stuck with them the same way the Daisy ad stuck with leftists. However, the GOP never broke ranks with their base the same way the Democrats did which is why you only have the Code Pink nonsense every once in a blue moon instead of it being day-in-, day-out messaging.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

It's only racism when a middle aged white guy interrupts the president.

People like Michael Eric Dyson , Joe Madison, Chris Matthews and others kept bringing up Wilson but were not as vocal when a middle aged woman heckled Barack.

[A.J.]

[QUOTE=Syd;3067558]http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2013/05/23/code-pink-founder-medea-benjamin-heckles-obama-repeatedly/

What do you think?

I think it's cunty-ism.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

There's "ism" going on every day and it's not just limited to race

Look what happens when it comes to education. Many times people who go to ivy league schools are considered superior to someone who went to a state school.

[hanso]

It's only racism when a middle aged white guy interrupts the president.

People like Michael Eric Dyson , Joe Madison, Chris Matthews and others kept bringing up Wilson but were not as vocal when a middle aged woman heckled Barack.

Wilson is a sitting member of the hill who did it while a session was on the floor. When was this ever done before in modern times?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

There were fights on the floor of congress in the 19th century

You're grasping straws. Heckling is heckling regardless where it happens and who does it

How about we switch to a parliamentary system like the Brits do. Now that's heckling

[A.J.]

There were fights on the floor of congress in the 19th century

You're grasping straws. Heckling is heckling regardless where it happens and who does it

How about we switch to a parliamentary system like the Brits do. Now that's heckling

My Congressman, Jim Moran, once shoved a colleague on the House floor and threatened to break the nose of another.

[hanso]

I'm grasping straws? It was directed to the commander in chief , that part was just side stepped.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

And the head of code pink heckled and addressed the Commander in chief on a speech about national security and defense

[hanso]

Yeah thats the same thing.


Square pegs round holes..why do i even try?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

It's a bigger deal because somehow the halls of congress are sacred?

The US Capitol has some of the most corrupt unethical people on the planet. It's an institution that has been mired in filth and sleaze for 200 years

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Over 200

[hanso]

If you continually see no difference/label it a mere interupution i won't waste time with it, but you put it as a question and that was how i remember it going down

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I would have waited until after the speech but Obama did lie

Under Obamacare. Illegals are covered

[Syd]

I would have waited until after the speech but Obama did lie

Under Obamacare. Illegals are covered

How?

SEC. 1411. PROCEDURES FOR DETERMINING ELIGIBILITY FOR EXCHANGE PARTICIPATION, PREMIUM TAX CREDITS AND REDUCED COST-SHARING, AND INDIVIDUAL RESPONSIBILITY EXEMPTIONS.

(1) IN GENERAL.—An applicant for enrollment in a qualified health plan offered through an Exchange in the individual market shall provide—

(A) the name, address, and date of birth of each individual who is to be covered by the plan (in this subsection referred to as an ‘‘enrollee’’); and

(B) the information required by any of the following paragraphs that is applicable to an enrollee.

(2) CITIZENSHIP OR IMMIGRATION STATUS.—The following information shall be provided with respect to every enrollee:

(A) In the case of an enrollee whose eligibility is based on an attestation of citizenship of the enrollee, the enrollee’s social security number.

(B) In the case of an individual whose eligibility is based on an attestation of the enrollee’s immigration status, the enrollee’s social security number (if applicable) and such identifying information with respect to the enrollee’s immigration status as the Secretary, after consultation with the Secretary of Homeland Security, determines appropriate.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

There was a 28 million dollar grant that pertains to migrant farm workers.

That was authorized by HHS

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Think illegals won't get denied when the Medicaid expansion gets implemented ?

I got a war to sell you

[Syd]

Migrant workers have work visas, they're not illegal immigrants.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

And many migrant workers use fake documents

The federal government refuses to enforce immigration laws, what makes you think that they will adhere to those provisions in Obamacare ?

[hanso]

<param name="movie" value="http://embed.crooksandliars.com/v/Mjc0MzgtNzAwNzk?color=C93033" /><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="quality" value="high" /><param name="wmode" value="transparent" /><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always" /><embed src="http://embed.crooksandliars.com/v/Mjc0MzgtNzAwNzk?color=C93033" quality="high" wmode="transparent" width="440" height="284" allowfullscreen="true" name="clembedMjc0MzgtNzAwNzk" align="middle" quality="high" allowScriptAccess="always" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" pluginspage="http://www.adobe.com/go/getflashplayer"></embed></object>

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Once again. The IRS is knowingly sending refunds to illegals who claim dependents in their home countries.

[Syd]

How does one file taxes without a social security number?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Stolen number or dead persons or they use an ITIN

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Hasn't the federal government been committing discrimination since 1965?

[Syd]

Stolen number or dead persons or they use an ITIN

So they're paying taxes and as far as anyone can tell, they're legitimate taxpayers. Are they not due the same as anyone else that is a legitimate taxpayer?

-or-

If they're already illegal immigrants, why are they paying taxes at all?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

If they committed identity theft, they are not legitimate. That's like robbing a bank and putting $100 money to the poor box at a church


The ones that do pay federal income taxes are getting more back via EITC and the ones claiming children in their home countries are breaking the law

While they pay taxes they are not tax payers. If your refund is even $1 more than your liability you're not a taxpayer. That goes for Corporations too. Ahem GM and GE

[Syd]

Who are they taking the money from? They're paying taxes.

[foodcourtdruide]

If they committed identity theft, they are not legitimate. That's like robbing a bank and putting $100 money to the poor box at a church



Actually, it's nothing like this. It would be like stealing money from a bank, but putting the exact same amount of money back into that bank.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

They are paying taxes but they are robbing from the treasury.


Their refund is larger than their taxes paid

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Actually, it's nothing like this. It would be like stealing money from a bank, but putting the exact same amount of money back into that bank.



But they are getting more of a return

And they are stealing. They took someone's identity

[Syd]

Their refund is larger than their taxes paid

How does that work?

[spoon]

so you believe that every time any republican says cut taxes he's laughing into his hand because he means something else? Did they let Powell and Rice in on the code? See, what you are calling "evidence" is just opinion. You want higher taxes and more programs and giveaways and anybody who doesn't is a racist? And you had no response to the fact that every recent president has had his feet held to the fire, but ,ummm "supporters" of this one get to take the low road and cry racism. You have lost all credibility by trotting that tired bullshit out, you are crippled too high for crutches and just a far left version of WF.

I call complete bullshit on that bolded statement, and your take here DV. If you think defending Obama in cases such as those put out by WF here all day is the same as wanting higher taxes, more programs and giveaways (classic toss in rhetoric) then I can't help you either. Also, there is PLENTY of areas where this GOP party has shown its true color in what and why they think what they do of this prez, even compared to their other whipping boy Clinton. I'm sorry, to not see it is almost as bad as someone missing WF's obvious witch hunt and hate in one direction versus good dialogue and discussion...much less any semblance of focus on a topic.

[spoon]

Powell was sent down the river as was the head of the RNC

and Rice was what in terms of actual importance to the cabal of actual power under W (of which even he wasn't in)...they were figureheads, all of them for different reasons

W, the name and lineage to get elected, Rice and Powell, well I think you can guess what was behind those appointments everyone saw through, much less how Powell was absolutely destroyed on the public stage and on purpose in my opinion...bc he actually had one of his own in the end and was a threat to take some power away from the old guard with his military history and more centric GOP ways/ideals.

[spoon]

[QUOTE=Syd;3067558]http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2013/05/23/code-pink-founder-medea-benjamin-heckles-obama-repeatedly/

What do you think?

I think it's cunty-ism.

in this case, a lack of civility...but that is usually the case when staging civil unrest at a press event to get the word out on you cause, your organization and tie into your book

there is reason she is doing this outside of a pure cause here that some I completely agree with, just not so much her tact and where she chose to do so... just as in the other cases they too had their reasons, and lack of respect and perhaps something deeper as Syd points out is often at play. all are not one in the same/equal

[spoon]

Wilson is a sitting member of the hill who did it while a session was on the floor. When was this ever done before in modern times?

pretty much one of the biggest differences bt some of these here

and yes, there is NOTHING on average behind that state school vs ivy league thing at all...first off, entry level averages in terms of grades/sat scores and so much more...and that's just to get fucking in

sure there are W cases in which nepotism and money cloud the picture, but those are a small percentage of the students overall, however unfortunate that factor is

stupid example by a stupid fuck

[WRESTLINGFAN]

How does that work?



Earned income tax credit


Claiming people as dependents In their home countries

[Syd]

Earned income tax credit


Claiming people as dependents In their home countries

EITC is a tax credit, it only offsets taxable income. You can't be refunded on taxes you never paid in the first place.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Exactly. It's a credit and it goes to a certain class of taxpayer

When Jose claims his anchor babies here and dependents in May hee co his return is more than his liability

[spoon]

Wf's band name...Jose and the Anchor Babies

[A.J.]

Wf's band name...Jose and the Anchor Babies

Mariachi band.

[hanso]

It's Jose and the Anchor Babies Mariachi band we hope you have enjoyed the show

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I hear they do an excellent Mariachi type cover of Madonna's Borderline and Pink Floyd's another brick in the wall

[WRESTLINGFAN]

It's Jose and the Anchor Babies Mariachi band we hope you have enjoyed the show



I heard the news today oh boy. Pancho Villa had just won the war

[WRESTLINGFAN]

To Congressman Don Young, the song is Get Back

[SonOfSmeagol]

EITC is a tax credit, it only offsets taxable income. You can't be refunded on taxes you never paid in the first place.

Yes, You Can. thanks to "refundable tax credits"

Those making less than $30,000 receive more back from the IRS than they pay in income taxes, due to the generosity of such preferences as the EITC and the child credit.

charts 6, 8-10
Putting a Face on America's Tax Returns: A Chartbook (http://taxfoundation.org/slideshow/putting-face-americas-tax-returns)

[deliciousV]

I call complete bullshit on that bolded statement, and your take here DV. If you think defending Obama in cases such as those put out by WF here all day is the same as wanting higher taxes, more programs and giveaways (classic toss in rhetoric) then I can't help you either. Also, there is PLENTY of areas where this GOP party has shown its true color in what and why they think what they do of this prez, even compared to their other whipping boy Clinton. I'm sorry, to not see it is almost as bad as someone missing WF's obvious witch hunt and hate in one direction versus good dialogue and discussion...much less any semblance of focus on a topic.

Did you read the Atwater quote I was responding to? There was no reason for me to address the forced bussing, so I was talking about what he said about lowering taxes, what's the opposite of lowering? And I have no problem with people defending Obama, defend away. But don't start crying racism, it's weak. You had no problem with the left turning W's image into that of a retard, because you don't like him, some people don't like Obama, that doesn't make being critical of him racist.
And can I have a difference of opinion with somebody on this board without you feeling like you are their lawyer? He was doing fine defending himself, having you make your usual personal attack on anybody who dares not be as liberal as you is predictable and played out.

[SonOfSmeagol]

hear, hear

[Syd]

Did you read the Atwater quote I was responding to? There was no reason for me to address the forced bussing, so I was talking about what he said about lowering taxes, what's the opposite of lowering? And I have no problem with people defending Obama, defend away. But don't start crying racism, it's weak. You had no problem with the left turning W's image into that of a retard, because you don't like him, some people don't like Obama, that doesn't make being critical of him racist.
And can I have a difference of opinion with somebody on this board without you feeling like you are their lawyer? He was doing fine defending himself, having you make your usual personal attack on anybody who dares not be as liberal as you is predictable and played out.

So if it isn't racism, what is it? Did they just pick up the torch from Atwater and drop it all of a sudden but keep his rhetoric?

moreover, why hasn't any GOP President in the post-Southern Strategy era ever ran a budget surplus or cut government spending? The last one to run a back-to-back surplus was Eisenhower.

and this:
http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2012/08/romneys-birther-joke-explained-one-number-he-needs-61-white-vote-win/56192/

Racist whites in former slave states are dying off faster than they can be replaced. North Carolina will consistently be in play and eventually won, Texas' demographic shifts are in the near future and when that happens the GOP will no longer be a viable national party unless they re-tool the Southern Strategy to not depend wholly on the racist white vote.

[Syd]

Yes, You Can. thanks to "refundable tax credits"



charts 6, 8-10
Putting a Face on America's Tax Returns: A Chartbook (http://taxfoundation.org/slideshow/putting-face-americas-tax-returns)

Well color me surprised. Still, the EITC as a share of "expenditures" is less than that of the biggest single welfare handout for taxes: home mortgage tax deductions.

[deliciousV]

So if it isn't racism, what is it? Did they just pick up the torch from Atwater and drop it all of a sudden but keep his rhetoric?

moreover, why hasn't any GOP President in the post-Southern Strategy era ever ran a budget surplus or cut government spending? The last one to run a back-to-back surplus was Eisenhower.

and this:
http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2012/08/romneys-birther-joke-explained-one-number-he-needs-61-white-vote-win/56192/

Racist whites in former slave states are dying off faster than they can be replaced. North Carolina will consistently be in play and eventually won, Texas' demographic shifts are in the near future and when that happens the GOP will no longer be a viable national party unless they re-tool the Southern Strategy to not depend wholly on the racist white vote.

I am not going to let myself believe that every time a republican says "lower taxes" it's code for racism, that's just stupid.
And the whole idea that the south is racist just because they vote more to the right is also stupid, as I said before, the south and the middle of the country vote pro life, not anti black.
The most racist person I've met since living in the south was from Jersey, he was my Mother inlaws neighbor, he walked into the house one day while me and 3 over 60 southern raised men were watching golf and said "I can't believe you guys are watching that "N*****" play golf. He was an asshole, I don't count him as a representative of the north east.
Obama is being attacked because some shit has hit the fan, I don't agree with all of the criticism, but I'm not gonna call it racism just because he's black. That's some scapegoating shit.

[Dude!]

The most racist person I've met since living in the south was from Jersey, he was my Mother inlaws neighbor, he walked into the house one day while me and 3 over 60 southern raised men were watching golf and said "I can't believe you guys are watching that "N*****" play golf. He was an asshole, I don't count him as a representative of the north east.

8 of the 10 most segregated cities
in the country are in the north
(Milwaukee is #2, for the
sanctimonius epo)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/04/07/americas-10-most-segregated-cities_n_845092.html#s261062&title=1_Detroit_Michigan

people in Philly and Boston are
more racist than people in Atlanta,
and it's made more insidious
by their pretending not to be.

[spoon]

Did you read the Atwater quote I was responding to? There was no reason for me to address the forced bussing, so I was talking about what he said about lowering taxes, what's the opposite of lowering? And I have no problem with people defending Obama, defend away. But don't start crying racism, it's weak. You had no problem with the left turning W's image into that of a retard, because you don't like him, some people don't like Obama, that doesn't make being critical of him racist.
And can I have a difference of opinion with somebody on this board without you feeling like you are their lawyer? He was doing fine defending himself, having you make your usual personal attack on anybody who dares not be as liberal as you is predictable and played out.

calling bullshit, bc it was, is not a personal attack

and nobody said not to be critical of Obama's policy, something I have done as well

yet to NOT admit there is more to it from many out there is just plain ignorance. W was compared to idiocy bc of his speaking abilities, actions and history. It's not crying racism, it's fucking calling it out.

oh and I'm not acting as anyone's lawyer soft skinned DV, I'm chiming in on a FUCKING MESSAGE BOARD. In case you didn't know, that's how these things work so learn to fucking deal and stop crying like a bitch about it. Attack my position, my take and my response, but PLEASE stop being a SOFT BITCH!

[spoon]

hear, hear

fuck yourself, fuck yourself

[SonOfSmeagol]

http://static2.bigstockphoto.com/thumbs/5/1/6/large2/6152637.jpg

[Syd]

I am not going to let myself believe that every time a republican says "lower taxes" it's code for racism, that's just stupid.

Even though the whole concept was packaged specifically because Republicans could no longer call people niggers and expect to get votes?

And the whole idea that the south is racist just because they vote more to the right is also stupid, as I said before, the south and the middle of the country vote pro life, not anti black.

They vote anti-poor, which is basically most of the south but especially non-whites.

Obama is being attacked because some shit has hit the fan, I don't agree with all of the criticism, but I'm not gonna call it racism just because he's black. That's some scapegoating shit.

So shit hit the fan when Obama was going to address kindergarteners before their first year in school? What about when PPACA was being kicked around some and people were portraying Obama as a stereotypical spearchucker? Or portraying him as "an Arab"? What shit hit the fan then there?

What about birtherism? What's so hard to believe that Obama was born in America?

Not specifically Obama, but with the "voter ID" laws. Pennsylvania went to court for it and had this to say:

Pennsylvania “will not offer any evidence in this action that in-person voter fraud has in fact occurred in Pennsylvania and elsewhere” or even argue “that in person voter fraud is likely to occur in November 2012 in the absense of the Photo ID law.”

http://www.aclupa.org/downloads/ApplewhiteStipulation.pdf

Yet, voter ID laws disproportionately impact non-white voters.

Basically, no matter how hard you wish otherwise there hasn't been a single action performed by the post-Goldwater GOP that doesn't scapegoat, victimize or otherwise harm non-whites.

Which is, why, you know, the rate of non-white GOP votes is so abysmal.

Some of the stuff like Benghazi and the IRS are just manufactured outrages that would happen to any opposite-party president, sure. It's the other stuff that show the complete lack of respect the GOP and its voters have for non-whites.

[SonOfSmeagol]

Well color me surprised. Still, the EITC as a share of "expenditures" is less than that of the biggest single welfare handout for taxes: home mortgage tax deductions.

people keeping more of their own money is hardly a "welfare handout"

[Syd]

people keeping more of their own money is hardly a "welfare handout"

So should people who make payments on their car be entitled to keeping more of their own money? What about lay-a-way? Or RV payments? What about credit card payments?

it's a handout and you're bad at understanding the concept

[deliciousV]

Even though the whole concept was packaged specifically because Republicans could no longer call people niggers and expect to get votes?



They vote anti-poor, which is basically most of the south but especially non-whites.



So shit hit the fan when Obama was going to address kindergarteners before their first year in school? What about when PPACA was being kicked around some and people were portraying Obama as a stereotypical spearchucker? Or portraying him as "an Arab"? What shit hit the fan then there?

What about birtherism? What's so hard to believe that Obama was born in America?

Not specifically Obama, but with the "voter ID" laws. Pennsylvania went to court for it and had this to say:



http://www.aclupa.org/downloads/ApplewhiteStipulation.pdf

Yet, voter ID laws disproportionately impact non-white voters.

Basically, no matter how hard you wish otherwise there hasn't been a single action performed by the post-Goldwater GOP that doesn't scapegoat, victimize or otherwise harm non-whites.

Which is, why, you know, the rate of non-white GOP votes is so abysmal.

Some of the stuff like Benghazi and the IRS are just manufactured outrages that would happen to any opposite-party president, sure. It's the other stuff that show the complete lack of respect the GOP and its voters have for non-whites.

it is telling to me that when you originally quoted the Atwater interview you cut off the last sentence "And subconsciously maybe that is part of it, I’m not saying it."
You clearly have never read the entire interview, Atwater was saying that that had been the attitude during elections in the 60's and 70's, he was not stating it as a matter of strategic policy, in fact he was saying that national defense and the economy were now the leading issues nationwide, including the south.
You are using a small part of an interview completely out of context, Atwater repeatedly stated in that interview that racial prejudice no longer plays a significant role in Southern elections, and that Reagan won the South in 1980 on the same issues with which he swept the rest of the country: the economy and national defense. It requires a great deal of dishonesty to twist Atwater’s words into the exact opposite of what he actually said.

[Syd]

Let's use an in-context quote, then:

From now on, the Republicans are never going to get more than 10 to 20 percent of the Negro vote and they don't need any more than that...but Republicans would be shortsighted if they weakened enforcement of the Voting Rights Act. The more Negroes who register as Democrats in the South, the sooner the Negrophobe whites will quit the Democrats and become Republicans. That's where the votes are. Without that prodding from the blacks, the whites will backslide into their old comfortable arrangement with the local Democrats

The more Negroes who register as Democrats in the South, the sooner the Negrophobe whites will quit the Democrats and become Republicans.

anyway go fire up some objectivist tripe and mansplain your way out of that

[deliciousV]

Let's use an in-context quote, then:





anyway go fire up some objectivist tripe and mansplain your way out of that

you're still cherry picking, and ignoring the context, and the era being discussed. I'm annoyed you made me read this stupid interview. There is ALWAYS a racial/socioeconomic element to every campaign, on both sides, they'd be fools to ignore it. Was it racist of the Obama campaign to target and send buses into poor black Cleveland neighborhoods on election day to get out the black vote? Tell me how it's different.

[Syd]

you're still cherry picking, and ignoring the context, and the era being discussed. I'm annoyed you made me read this stupid interview. There is ALWAYS a racial/socioeconomic element to every campaign, on both sides, they'd be fools to ignore it. Was it racist of the Obama campaign to target and send buses into poor black Cleveland neighborhoods on election day to get out the black vote? Tell me how it's different.

Enfranchisement.

[deliciousV]

Enfranchisement.

Mansplain

[SonOfSmeagol]

So should people who make payments on their car be entitled to keeping more of their own money? What about lay-a-way? Or RV payments? What about credit card payments?

it's a handout and you're bad at understanding the concept

no. in no case, ever, is it a handout when people pay less taxes out of money that they make. concept: taxes are what people pay the gov't for goods and services.

for the first stuff you mention, it's interest, not payments, and consumer or personal loan interest was deductible until starting after the (bipartisan) tax reform act of 1986. I used to deduct all that stuff myself. hey I'd be all for further simplification of the tax code. eliminate the deductions and flatten it out, nice and fair

[Syd]

Mansplain

enfranchisement is the most basic principle of democracy

no. in no case, ever, is it a handout when people pay less taxes out of money that they make. concept: taxes are what people pay the gov't for goods and services.

for the first stuff you mention, it's interest, not payments, and consumer or personal loan interest was deductible until starting after the (bipartisan) tax reform act of 1986. I used to deduct all that stuff myself. hey I'd be all for further simplification of the tax code. eliminate the deductions and flatten it out, nice and fair

So it isn't a handout, despite it directly targeting a specific part of society and gives them money back that they weren't otherwise due. Gotcha, mighty narrow concept of "handout" because, in theory, someone with EITC tax credits can have a negative income tax rate (also a bipartisan idea)

[SonOfSmeagol]

So it isn't a handout, despite it directly targeting a specific part of society and gives them money back that they weren't otherwise due. Gotcha, mighty narrow concept of "handout" because, in theory, someone with EITC tax credits can have a negative income tax rate (also a bipartisan idea)

well yeah, those with "refundable credits" are getting a handout for sure. those who pay less taxes out of their earnings are not. it doesn't start with the gov't, it starts with the earner and his/her own money, and it gets paid it out from there for goods and services. like I said, flatten it out, with consideration for the very low earners.

[Syd]

well yeah, those with "refundable credits" are getting a handout for sure. those who pay less taxes out of their earnings are not. it doesn't start with the gov't, it starts with the earner and his/her own money, and it gets paid it out from there for goods and services. like I said, flatten it out, with consideration for the very low earners.

Shouldn't renters get to claim deductions then too? Why only some people get credits?

[SonOfSmeagol]

Shouldn't renters get to claim deductions then too? Why only some people get credits?

it's only interest, not payments - there's no interest on rent. besides, they did away with all the random interest deductions, but kept the mortgage one because it encourages people to make long term investments.

still, flatten it out. how about a straightout flat no-deductions tiered 1-5%, 10, 20, 30 (income levels TBD), with 15% for long term capital gains. done. progressive, or what?

[Syd]

it's only interest, not payments - there's no interest on rent. besides, they did away with all the random interest deductions, but kept the mortgage one because it encourages people to make long term investments.

still, flatten it out. how about a straightout flat no-deductions tiered 1-5%, 10, 20, 30 (income levels TBD), with 15% for long term capital gains. done. progressive, or what?

There's interest on car payments, and if you keep a car long enough it becomes something of a long term investment. It's a handout, plain and simple. Same thing with using a credit card or personal loan to purchase, say, oil or another fungible product that is non-renewable.

And no, it isn't progressive because of marginal utility. The first $50,000 or so of income is far more important than the next $50,000 of income and so on and so forth. That's why true capitalists and libertarians support a negative income tax rate and true socialists and leftists support the welfare state. It's only the American "socially liberal, financially conservative (but they really mean liberal)" types that support "flattening" the tax because it boosts short term profits at the expense of long term societal stability.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Warrant issued for Snowden, arrangements for asylum for him to go to Iceland are being discussed

[WRESTLINGFAN]

ABC news reports that Snowden will be going to Venezuela

[SonOfSmeagol]

There's interest on car payments, and if you keep a car long enough it becomes something of a long term investment. It's a handout, plain and simple. Same thing with using a credit card or personal loan to purchase, say, oil or another fungible product that is non-renewable.

And no, it isn't progressive because of marginal utility. The first $50,000 or so of income is far more important than the next $50,000 of income and so on and so forth. That's why true capitalists and libertarians support a negative income tax rate and true socialists and leftists support the welfare state. It's only the American "socially liberal, financially conservative (but they really mean liberal)" types that support "flattening" the tax because it boosts short term profits at the expense of long term societal stability.

yeah, car interest also used to allow to be deducted. but if the car loses value because you're using it up it's not much of a investment. if you set up as a corp you can take depreciation as a non-cash expense on a car tho. but again, one last time, paying less taxes from money you earn is not a handout.

on the second part I did use the term flatten but what I depicted is actually tiered, not totally flat. a big simplification from the current tho. don't get what you mean by "true capitalists and libertarians support a negative income tax rate" ... people realize that taxes are essential for certain gov't goods and services which in turn are essential to support the free enterprise - they just don't want to be over-regulated. however there is tremendous room for improvement in how gov't spends money and manages itself

[SonOfSmeagol]

ABC news reports that Snowden will be going to Venezuela

lands in Moscow, ouch, US. may be headed for Ecuador, senor

[Dude!]

lands in Moscow, ouch, US. may be headed for Ecuador, senor

after the Chinese
and now the Russians
will have downloaded everything
on his computers!

[Syd]

on the second part I did use the term flatten but what I depicted is actually tiered, not totally flat. a big simplification from the current tho. don't get what you mean by "true capitalists and libertarians support a negative income tax rate" ... people realize that taxes are essential for certain gov't goods and services which in turn are essential to support the free enterprise - they just don't want to be over-regulated. however there is tremendous room for improvement in how gov't spends money and manages itself

Negative income tax or welfare state allows to reconcile the need for "maximum employment" and, well, 5% of the population simply not being employed because they represent the ability for business to expand.

Also there isn't tremendous room. Medicare, for example, is something like 200% more efficient than private insurers.

As far as over-regulating, regulations are there because profit precedes public health concerns. Killing people en masse (look at cancer rates around superfund sites) because it's a little bit more cost effective isn't a great idea. Ditto for Keystone XL -- there's no reason not to spend the extra money to route the pipeline around the Ogallala aquifer so we, like, don't poison the fuck out of the most important natural resource America has.

[hanso]

ABC news reports that Snowden will be going to Venezuela

Funny how this guy said he wasn't running when this all started. CBS show this morning had him going to Moscow, maybe that was a flight hub.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Not a good week for Barack

Putin dismisses him at the G8 and now the Chinese wouldn't hand over Snowden

[Syd]

it's revenge for Guangcheng, natch

too bad Fox didn't pick up any stories about him for you WF

[brettmojo]

Not a good week for Barack

Putin dismisses him at the G8 and now the Chinese wouldn't hand over Snowden

The US didn't meet the legal requirements for extradition... Good. People should be protesting in the streets over what the guy open their eyes to but they're too busy worring what a rapper and a fat-assed whore named their kid.

[keithy_19]

The US didn't meet the legal requirements for extradition... Good. People should be protesting in the streets over what the guy open their eyes to but they're too busy worring what a rapper and a fat-assed whore named their kid.

You leave North West out of this! An american treasure that child is!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

it's revenge for Guangcheng, natch

too bad Fox didn't pick up any stories about him for you WF



As BM said, the US fucked up the paperwork

Who was in the bureaucracy that dropped the ball? HK has a consistent extradition agreement with the US

Maybe Al Sharpton will bring up revenge over the Boxer Rebellion

[Syd]

The US didn't meet the legal requirements for extradition... Good. People should be protesting in the streets over what the guy open their eyes to but they're too busy worring what a rapper and a fat-assed whore named their kid.

http://yahoo.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-05-10-nsa_x.htm

didn't then, won't now

people protest based on Maslow's hierarchy of needs, and vague 4th amendment rights aren't all that important

As BM said, the US fucked up the paperwork

Who was in the bureaucracy that dropped the ball? HK has a consistent extradition agreement with the US

Maybe Al Sharpton will bring up revenge over the Boxer Rebellion

there was a better chance of you welcoming open borders than Snowden being extradited, China is extremely upset still about Guangcheng

oh and this was funny timing:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/23/chen-guangcheng-visits-taiwan

[spoon]

As BM said, the US fucked up the paperwork

Who was in the bureaucracy that dropped the ball? HK has a consistent extradition agreement with the US

Maybe Al Sharpton will bring up revenge over the Boxer Rebellion

Yah, maybe.

[Dude!]

The US didn't meet the legal requirements for extradition... Good. People should be protesting in the streets over what the guy open their eyes to but they're too busy worrying what a rapper and a fat-assed whore named their kid.

wow...your posts
are usually nonsensical,
but that one was dead-on.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Yah, maybe.



Knowing Sharpton he thinks the boxer rebellion is when someone fires their trainer

[spoon]

i bet

[spoon]

great point

[WRESTLINGFAN]

IRS sends almost 24,000 tax refunds to 1 address for illegals

This was according to an IG memo

Shouldn't this trigger a red flag?

Now Illegals live packed into flop houses but there's no way 24,000 can live in a 2 family house

[brettmojo]

Now Illegals live packed into flop houses but there's no way 24,000 can live in a 2 family house

You'd be surprised.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

24 in a rusty 1988 Chrysler minivan is more likely

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Can't we just hire chimpanzees to bang on keyboards?

Don't these useless bureaucrats know that there are tons of free porn sites ?


http://m.nydailynews.com/1.1382447

[A.J.]

Can't we just hire chimpanzees to bang on keyboards?

No need to be racist about GS-3s.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Here's a good laugh. "Mistakenly"


http://news.yahoo.com/irs-mistakenly-exposed-thousands-social-security-numbers-132648716.html

[spoon]

your humor is awful, unmistakably

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Not so funny for the poor souls that got their SSN's posted

Just another reason to scrap this tax system and take a sledgehammer to the IRS

[spoon]

SURE IS!

WHO can argue that concrete logic!?

:wallbash:

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Think the IRS sucks balls now? Wait for the individual mandate enforcement.

[spoon]

Think the IRS sucks balls now? Wait for the individual mandate enforcement. derp!

<iframe width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/v3rhQc666Sg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[SonOfSmeagol]

With an endless parade of distractions, political posturing and phony scandals, Washington has taken its eye off the ball

while I may have mused it in the past, I can now say it with firm conviction: what an asshole

[brettmojo]

while I may have mused it in the past, I can now say it with firm conviction: what an asshole

Yes. How dare he point out what everyone else already knew. Call him Captain Obvious.

[Jujubees2]

Quote:
With an endless parade of distractions, political posturing and phony scandals, Washington has taken its eye off the ball

while I may have mused it in the past, I can now say it with firm conviction: what an asshole

This is why we need Anthony Weiner back in Washington. He'll keep everyone's eyes on his balls!

[SonOfSmeagol]

This is why we need Anthony Weiner back in Washington. He'll keep everyone's eyes on his balls!

:laugh:

I don't get that guy, he must be a glutton for punishment. and his wife looks permanently pissed off.

[SonOfSmeagol]

Yes. How dare he point out what everyone else already knew. Call him Captain Obvious.

ok, so you think of the issues with irs, state, doj, etc - issues that affected many peoples lives in very unpleasant ways - as phony. by all means you're entitled to voice that opinion. in his position, and with what has gone on, he is not

[A.J.]

:laugh:

I don't get that guy, he must be a glutton for punishment. and his wife looks permanently pissed off.

They're both addicted to power.

[spoon]

he may have mused it indeed

[Syd]

GUESS WHAT IS BACK IN THE NEWS

(sounds like the stooge who worked for the british firm that subbed out security to some random schleps)

[spoon]

Got to up those ratings somehow...and we all know it won't be something the GOP actually DOES that is good and helps anyone or anything.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Lara Logan was looking mighty hot last night

[A.J.]

She has nice boobies.