October 1st is Obamacare day

[thepaulo]

Don't forget to sign up.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/26/health/obamacare-open-enrollment/?hpt=he_c1

[thepaulo]

http://www.latimes.com/nation/politics/politicsnow/la-pn-healthcare-law-sale-20130926,0,183942.story

http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/18/opinion/carroll-obamacare-poll/

http://money.cnn.com/2013/09/19/pf/obamacare-scams/index.html?section=money_topstories&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+rss%2Fmoney_topstories+%28Top +Stories%29

http://money.cnn.com/2013/09/09/pf/taxes/obamacare-taxes/

http://money.cnn.com/2013/09/20/news/economy/obamacare-penalty/index.html

http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/11/health/obamacare-grants-community-centers/index.html

[sailor]

Yeah, looked it up and it has no impact on me. :(

[realmenhatelife]

I'd kindof like to sign up for it out of solidarity, I dont know if that's possible though.

[jennysmurf]

Since I don't have insurance at all, I'm totes gonna sign up. I've looked into the various plans (silver vs. bronze) and I'm a bit cornfuzzled about the whole thing.

[sailor]

Since I don't have insurance at all, I'm totes gonna sign up. I've looked into the various plans (silver vs. bronze) and I'm a bit cornfuzzled about the whole thing.

Poor AJ

[jennysmurf]

Poor AJ

I can't wait around forever.

[A.J.]

Poor AJ

I can't wait around forever.

It's MY fault.

It's like we're ALREADY married!

[jennysmurf]

It's MY fault.

It's like we're ALREADY married!

You're the one with the fancy insurance. You can afford to fly out here and woo me.

[A.J.]

Yes Dear.

[realmenhatelife]

Since I don't have insurance at all, I'm totes gonna sign up. I've looked into the various plans (silver vs. bronze) and I'm a bit cornfuzzled about the whole thing.

I was talking to my friend about it and she's having the same problem, she cant find good info. What I read makes it sound like after 10/1 the website will have better info on what you actually pay and what you actually get for that. And you have 2 months to sign up.


Watch out fellas, she's about to hook that birth control up....

[Dirtbag]

Watch out fellas, she's about to hook that birth control up....

Despite any reservations I have about Obamacare, if it gets more people on birth control I will be 100% for it.

[Misteriosa]

Despite any reservations I have about Obamacare, if it gets more people on birth control I will be 100% for it.

birth control will be at a very low cost, if not free. its already brought mine down from a $50/mo copay to fully covered on my insurance plan.

i got an email from my hr department this morning re: the aca.

To comply with Health Care Reform requirements, we have made a number of changes to our benefit plans. These changes include:

· Removal of annual and lifetime dollar limits on “essential” health benefits
· Coverage of eligible dependents until age 26
· Coverage of preventive care benefits at 100 percent
· Higher Medicare taxes for highly compensated employees

As of October 1, 2013, we are required to provide you with the attached information.

they still havent made clear what "essential" means.

[sailor]

birth control will be at a very low cost, if not free. its already brought mine down from a $50/mo copay to fully covered on my insurance plan.

i got an email from my hr department this morning re: the aca.



they still havent made clear what "essential" means.

Check with the insurer. We're mailing out similar stuff today, but it's just detailing what the health insurance marketplace is and who's affected (not me). We made similar changes like a year ago (dependence up to 26), don't know how they got away with not changing previously.

[spoon]

Check with the insurer. We're mailing out similar stuff today, but it's just detailing what the health insurance marketplace is and who's affected (not me). We made similar changes like a year ago (dependence up to 26), don't know how they got away with not changing previously.

they had to do it last year, they are just probably adding it to the memo/letter to make it look better

[sailor]

they had to do it last year, they are just probably adding it to the memo/letter to make it look better

Didn't think of that. Seemed sketchy.

[A.J.]

birth control will be at a very low cost, if not free. its already brought mine down from a $50/mo copay to fully covered on my insurance plan.

LA LA LA LA LA LA LA - I'M NOT LISTENING!!!

http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/x/young-boy-covering-his-ears-hands-15583288.jpg

[thepaulo]

Has everyone signed up?

[spoon]

WF was first in line

[jennysmurf]

I haven't done it yet. The site keeps crashing from all the traffic, so I'm going to give it a bit.

[Snoogans]

I haven't done it yet. The site keeps crashing from all the traffic, so I'm going to give it a bit.

there are reports that hackers have been fuckin with the system to make it seem like shit so the GOP and tea party can use it to make their case

[spoon]

I wouldn't put it past them to do it on purpose...it's not like they're busy now.

[sailor]

there are reports that hackers have been fuckin with the system to make it seem like shit so the GOP and tea party can use it to make their case

Most hackers are hardcore republicans, I hear.

[spoon]

The ones they pay with dew & cheese curls are...for a few days.

[epo]

they had to do it last year, they are just probably adding it to the memo/letter to make it look better

This.

Essential benefits are benefits which employers have to offer for their plans to be graded "valuable". So for the employee, they pay the cash and claim victory with employees. Did you see the wonderful thing they just did for you?

[epo]

I haven't done it yet. The site keeps crashing from all the traffic, so I'm going to give it a bit.

Trollop.

[jennysmurf]

Trollop.

Man whore.

[MHasegawa]

I'm just gonna pay the $95 and be done with this shit.:thumbdown:

[epo]

I'm just gonna pay the $95 and be done with this shit.:thumbdown:

$95 or 1% of gross income, whichever is higher.

[deliciousV]

$95 or 1% of gross income, whichever is higher.

right up until it goes up to $695

[Snoogans]

I'm just gonna pay the $95 and be done with this shit.:thumbdown:

why is it so bad? If you already have insurance, it doesnt really change much. If you dont have insurance, its nice to at least have the option. Besides, none of the policies go into effect until January, so you can wait a few weeks like im going to, and then go in when the system is free and it should be pretty easy. I went on last night just to check everything out and it worked fine.

And FYI, id assume the 95 dollars or 1% thing is to help offset the cost of the people who decide not to get insurance, then get hurt and go to the hospital and cant pay their bill.

I dont understand why it makes people so mad that the gov is attempting to give them an affordable way to get health insurance. That seems like something most people would be happy about

[spoon]

unfortunately many have ulterior motives and agendas that supersede what's right

it's a no fucking brainer to at least start in this direction, as even THIS is helping bring down costs as well. they need to find a fix for the part time loophole and all will be fine too and on the way to a public option

[Snoogans]

unfortunately many have ulterior motives and agendas that supersede what's right

it's a no fucking brainer to at least start in this direction, as even THIS is helping bring down costs as well. they need to find a fix for the part time loophole and all will be fine too and on the way to a public option

thats what I dont get. Its like people all of a sudden think you can tweak stuff in the future if it isnt working perfectly. Let it play out and find the issues and they will get corrected. I think this is gonna end up being a great plan, esp, like ive said, since the other side seems to hate it so much

[spoon]

Next up, fixing this HUGE gap between ceo's and their workers. It's actually quite sick.

[epo]

right up until it goes up to $695

I believe that's year three, which also is 2.5% of income (which is greater).

[Dude!]

6 people signed up
in Wisconsin so far

they may get as many as 14

[Tenbatsuzen]

Everyone doesn't "sign up". If you are under your employer's insurance, nothing really changes (outside of the reforms) and you don't have to do anything outside of your typical open enrollment.

[Snoogans]

6 people signed up
in Wisconsin so far

they may get as many as 14

6.5 million have signed up around the country even despite the GOP hacking the systems and all the people sayin no one cares.

[spoon]

it's the same bullshit warped reality the GOP was living in before the election

nothing they believe at this point seems to have validity to it beyond the thoughts of a toddler in that THEY WANT it that way

[Snoogans]

it's the same bullshit warped reality the GOP was living in before the election

nothing they believe at this point seems to have validity to it beyond the thoughts of a toddler in that THEY WANT it that way

that rules too. They point to all these polls and BS sayin look, people dont want obamacare. But the guy got fuckin re elected, and this is his big thing, so there must be some number of people who want this. Not to mention, i dont think most people even fuckin understand that this is probably a good thing, even for people who had insurance already. Even Misty is sayin this law already is saving her 50 bucks a month.

Not to mention, certain companies, even fuckin WALMART, have realized its not so bad and started giving people hours back. You cant blame obama care cause guys like Papa John are just scumbag greedy fucks

[Dude!]

6.5 million have signed up around the country even despite the GOP hacking the systems and all the people sayin no one cares.

wow..your number is
as made up as mine
6.5 milliaon...bullshit

[spoon]

but but, that shitty pizza not worth a dime will now cost us an extra one!

[Snoogans]

wow..your number is
as made up as mine
6.5 milliaon...bullshit

sorry, you are right. i miss spoke that. 6.5 million have put in applications already. This from what I heard on MSNBC, so I guess it oculd be BS

[thepaulo]

The government never did nothing for me. Fuck em'.

[hanso]

Everyone doesn't "sign up". If you are under your employer's insurance, nothing really changes (outside of the reforms) and you don't have to do anything outside of your typical open enrollment.

You go to the town hall meetings and raise hell. Where is my musket and tri-Corner Hat?

[epo]

Everyone doesn't "sign up". If you are under your employer's insurance, nothing really changes (outside of the reforms) and you don't have to do anything outside of your typical open enrollment.

Duh.

[spoon]

Duh.

let him go, he has his manage care hat on

[Midkiff]

The government never did nothing for me. Fuck em'.

They didn't prosecute you for that murder, that should count for something. :lol:

[Jujubees2]

Has anyone seen the death panels yet?

[Dude!]

Has anyone seen the death panels yet?

how could we?
dead patients don't talk

[spoon]

Sure...families never get involved as their loved ones are taken to the slaughter house. Good point.

[thepaulo]

http://www.nytimes.com/news/fiscal-crisis/2013/10/09/kochs-deny-pushing-for-shutdown-over-health-law/?_r=0


I suspect the Koch brothers are actual demons walking the face of the planet.

[thepaulo]

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/starbucks-ceo-howard-schultz-asks-lawmakers-customers-pay/story?id=20516809

Buy someone some coffee and sit down and work it out.

[jennysmurf]

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/starbucks-ceo-howard-schultz-asks-lawmakers-customers-pay/story?id=20516809

Buy someone some coffee and sit down and work it out.

I'll take the coffee, but I ain't working nothing out with nobody. Hmph.

[thepaulo]

I'll take the coffee, but I ain't working nothing out with nobody. Hmph.

How rude!

[jennysmurf]

How rude!

Just shut up and buy me a coffee.

[LeedsJr]

I'll take the coffee, but I ain't working nothing out with nobody. Hmph.

This is why you don't have health insurance yet. Just sayin'.

[Tenbatsuzen]

Duh.

Honest to fuck it's exactly this reaction why Obamacare doesn't have bipartisan support and why there is so much fucking misinformation spreading about it.

The Democrats have not exactly helped because there is no uniform spot where you can go that explains everything exactly out in simple layman's terms. And if there is, they aren't directing people to it.

[Tenbatsuzen]

let him go, he has his manage care hat on

You mean the "what I'm paid to do" hat?

[Snoogans]

You mean the "what I'm paid to do" hat?

i thought you were in sales at 101.5

[Tenbatsuzen]

n/m.

[epo]

Honest to fuck it's exactly this reaction why Obamacare doesn't have bipartisan support and why there is so much fucking misinformation spreading about it.

The Democrats have not exactly helped because there is no uniform spot where you can go that explains everything exactly out in simple layman's terms. And if there is, they aren't directing people to it.

Yea Matty, I'm clearly the problem with the tea party assholes in Washington. I also told old, white America about "death panels" so they'd reject the black dude.

Keep telling me about your brilliant theories.

[Tenbatsuzen]

Yea Matty, I'm clearly the problem with the tea party assholes in Washington. I also told old, white America about "death panels" so they'd reject the black dude.

Keep telling me about your brilliant theories.

Like this one?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_elite

[Tenbatsuzen]

Yea Matty, I'm clearly the problem with the tea party assholes in Washington. I also told old, white America about "death panels" so they'd reject the black dude.

Keep telling me about your brilliant theories.

And you completely missed the point. When you take, for example, this article:

http://www.newsday.com/opinion/columnists/lane-filler/filler-the-real-reason-obamacare-won-t-work-1.6222264

When this asshole is ALREADY FUCKING COVERED by his employer but then writes a scare article about signing up on the exchanges.

[Tenbatsuzen]

Basically what I'm trying to say Epo, is that even though we are on the same side of the Obamacare issue, your dismissiveness of a point I was trying to make illustrates WHY EXACTLY something that is needed like Obamacare has become so polarizing. Democrats have an issue trying to explain it in simple issues and then become pissy when called it on it, and America is left going "WTF?" We hear about death panels and all this bullshit, but I guarantee you if you ask 100 americans what Obamacare means to them, more than half wouldn't realize they wouldn't see a change if they are still under their employers insurance.

The harsh reality is that for 75 percent of the non-senior population of the United States, you're not going to see a change for the time being. Perhaps when the reforms start driving prices down and assholes stop using the ER as a health spa...

[Snoogans]

Basically what I'm trying to say Epo, is that even though we are on the same side of the Obamacare issue, your dismissiveness of a point I was trying to make illustrates WHY EXACTLY something that is needed like Obamacare has become so polarizing. Democrats have an issue trying to explain it in simple issues and then become pissy when called it on it, and America is left going "WTF?" We hear about death panels and all this bullshit, but I guarantee you if you ask 100 americans what Obamacare means to them, more than half wouldn't realize they wouldn't see a change if they are still under their employers insurance.

The harsh reality is that for 75 percent of the non-senior population of the United States, you're not going to see a change for the time being. Perhaps when the reforms start driving prices down and assholes stop using the ER as a health spa...

i agree with most of this sentiment. However, the bolded part. Every woman I know who takes birth control now gets it free. it made a 40-60 dollar a month difference for every single woman who takes birth control. Thats pretty immediate.

[Tenbatsuzen]

i agree with most of this sentiment. However, the bolded part. Every woman I know who takes birth control now gets it free. it made a 40-60 dollar a month difference for every single woman who takes birth control. Thats pretty immediate.

Good point. I'm trying to verbalize that people think we MUST sign up and we MUST take Obama's healthcare and ALL Insurance is going to be through the government when we are nowhere near that point.

There is a ton of misinformation out there and no one - NOT EVEN THE PRESIDENT - has come out with a speech or tried ti explain it in layman's speech.

Remember when Ross Perot had charts and shit when he was running? He was trying to explain stuff, and he was some goof who still got 19% of the vote. The left's response to Obamacare is basically "look it up yourself and fight it out on the internet."

If Obama had 30 minutes on TV explaining the very basic tenets of Obamacare, all this misinformation would fade away REAL quick.

[Tenbatsuzen]

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2013/oct/04/facebook-posts/closer-look-facebook-post-mans-struggle-obamacare-/

More complete viral horseshit re: Obamacare.

[Dude!]

of the 5 people who've
signed up in Iowa,
the death panels have
already said 4 must die

[spoon]

Misinformation and lack of information are not one in the same. And tenbats, I would NEVER take your advice on anything even if involved with it, much less health coverage after your awesome tgifridays and radio careers! Just no.

[epo]

Like this one?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_elite

Actually Matty if you read this thread the only person I take that tone with is you. Notice the trend?

And there are a multitude of reasons why people don't know enough about The ACA and I'm probably #20,981,541 on that list.

Let's put GOP governors rejecting Medicaid dollars, the GOP house for demonizing the bill and third party groups advertising misinformation while the government is launching their campaign at the front of the line.

[thepaulo]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Health_Organization_ranking_of_health_system s



http://www.bloomberg.com/visual-data/best-and-worst/most-efficient-health-care-countries


Ranking

Country

Expenditure Per Capita


1 France France 4
2 Italy Italy 11
3 San Marino San Marino 21
4 Andorra 23
5 Malta 37
6 Singapore Singapore 38
7 Spain Spain 24
8 Oman Oman 62
9 Austria 6
10 Japan Japan 13
11 Norway 16
12 Portugal Portugal 27
13 Monaco 12
14 Greece 30
15 Iceland Iceland 14
16 Luxembourg 5
17 Netherlands Netherlands 9
18 United Kingdom United Kingdom 26
19 Republic of Ireland Ireland 25
20 Switzerland Switzerland 2
21 Belgium 15
22 Colombia Colombia 49
23 Sweden Sweden 7
24 Cyprus Cyprus 39
25 Germany Germany 3
26 Saudi Arabia Saudi Arabia 63
27 United Arab Emirates United Arab Emirates 35
28 Israel Israel 19
29 Morocco Morocco 99
30 Canada Canada 10
31 Finland Finland 18
32 Australia Australia 17
33 Chile 44
34 Argentina Argentina 15
35 Denmark 8
36 Dominica 70
37 Costa Rica Costa Rica 50
38 United States United States 1
39 Slovenia Slovenia 29
40 Cuba Cuba 118
41 Brunei 32
42 New Zealand New Zealand 20
43 Bahrain 48
44 Croatia 56
45 Qatar Qatar 27
46 Kuwait 41
47 Barbados 36
48 Thailand Thailand 64
49 Czech Republic Czech Republic 40
50 Malaysia Malaysia

[foodcourtdruide]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Health_Organization_ranking_of_health_system s



http://www.bloomberg.com/visual-data/best-and-worst/most-efficient-health-care-countries


Ranking

Country

Expenditure Per Capita


1 France France 4
2 Italy Italy 11
3 San Marino San Marino 21
4 Andorra 23
5 Malta 37
6 Singapore Singapore 38
7 Spain Spain 24
8 Oman Oman 62
9 Austria 6
10 Japan Japan 13
11 Norway 16
12 Portugal Portugal 27
13 Monaco 12
14 Greece 30
15 Iceland Iceland 14
16 Luxembourg 5
17 Netherlands Netherlands 9
18 United Kingdom United Kingdom 26
19 Republic of Ireland Ireland 25
20 Switzerland Switzerland 2
21 Belgium 15
22 Colombia Colombia 49
23 Sweden Sweden 7
24 Cyprus Cyprus 39
25 Germany Germany 3
26 Saudi Arabia Saudi Arabia 63
27 United Arab Emirates United Arab Emirates 35
28 Israel Israel 19
29 Morocco Morocco 99
30 Canada Canada 10
31 Finland Finland 18
32 Australia Australia 17
33 Chile 44
34 Argentina Argentina 15
35 Denmark 8
36 Dominica 70
37 Costa Rica Costa Rica 50
38 United States United States 1
39 Slovenia Slovenia 29
40 Cuba Cuba 118
41 Brunei 32
42 New Zealand New Zealand 20
43 Bahrain 48
44 Croatia 56
45 Qatar Qatar 27
46 Kuwait 41
47 Barbados 36
48 Thailand Thailand 64
49 Czech Republic Czech Republic 40
50 Malaysia Malaysia

It says we spend $8600 per capita, average person income in this country is almost $43k. That means per capita we spend almost 20% on health care. Please explain to me how single payer or universal health care could POSSIBLY cost more? We are rubes.

[sailor]

Fuckin' omanis got it figured out!

[SonOfSmeagol]

It says we spend $8600 per capita, average person income in this country is almost $43k. That means per capita we spend almost 20% on health care. Please explain to me how single payer or universal health care could POSSIBLY cost more? We are rubes.

interesting. can you explain specifically the leap from those facts to the conclusion that single payer is same or better?

[foodcourtdruide]

interesting. can you explain specifically the leap from those facts to the conclusion that single payer is same or better?

How could anything be worse? Our health care is shitty and incredibly expensive. I find it hard to believe that a single-payer system would cost more than a 20% tax, and it would make healthcare more accessible. This is totally anecdotal, but have you ever been to a country with single-payer or universal health care? I spent some time in Japan and the health care system puts ours to shame.

I guess to summarize: we are doing it wrong.

[SonOfSmeagol]

How could anything be worse? Our health care is shitty and incredibly expensive. I find it hard to believe that a single-payer system would cost more than a 20% tax, and it would make healthcare more accessible. This is totally anecdotal, but have you ever been to a country with single-payer or universal health care? I spent some time in Japan and the health care system puts ours to shame.

I guess to summarize: we are doing it wrong.

it IS worse, and could be even more so.

look at the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid, the closest thing to a single-payer system the Fed govt has now. Over $50,000,000,000 in "improper payments" per year, yet they try to clamor for more staff?! Good luck fixing that bloated ineffective mess, yet alone adding to it, like obamacare is. Some people will try to tout that CMS has the lowest admin costs of anyone, however that's a bad stat because they put the admin burden of time, effort, and thus $, onto the providers, insurers, and patients. CMS has little to nothing going for it when you measure a service organization's ability and track record in delivering speed, quality, OR price - and I'll bet you will see the same with obamacare. When my mom passed last year it took CMS THREE MONTHS to even acknowledge her very straightforward case and ONE YEAR to resolve it, after errors on their part and much needless back-and-forth.

oh sure, CMS pays needed benefits, but at what price? similarly, obamacare has benefits, but at what price? the ends do NOT justify the means

no thanks to even MORE Federal involvement in healthcare. They should regulate it, set standards and such, but stay OUT of the business.

[Pitdoc]

no thanks to even MORE Federal involvement in healthcare. They should regulate it, set standards and such, but stay OUT of the business.

Yeah , they've been trying to regulate it since the 30s, and the party of big business ( i.e.; insurance companies) have kept it from happening .The only times since FDR was Medicare in the 60s and now the ACA . And both times the Republicans have said it was the worst thing in the world . Try to get a Republican to sell getting rid of Medicare these days if he wants his job.Its why they want to kill the ACA before it starts.If they thought it would suck a big one they would RUN on it next year, instead of trying to stall it for a year .The only reason the ACA got through is that there's something in it for the insurance companies (and they own both Dems AND Repubs) .

john Stewart said it best . Its not Obama's race. its the fact that anything that helps the less fortunate (and doesnt make them some green ) is "mooching" and must be stopped, to order to lower our taxes

The ACA is one step of many to get to get to universal single payer. Only when that is in will people say "Why didnt we do this 50 years ago (That's how long it might take) ?

[spoon]

pitdoc pretty much summed it up perfectly

ulterior motives abound

[thepaulo]

Let me know when they approve euthanasia coverage.
I'd like some liquid morphine.

http://euthanasia.procon.org/

[Midkiff]

How could anything be worse? Our health care is shitty and incredibly expensive. I find it hard to believe that a single-payer system would cost more than a 20% tax, and it would make healthcare more accessible. This is totally anecdotal, but have you ever been to a country with single-payer or universal health care? I spent some time in Japan and the health care system puts ours to shame.

I guess to summarize: we are doing it wrong.

Right on dude, exactly. I have lived in 3rd World countries with universal health care, and the system is awesome, way better than ours. And guess what, righties... you can still pay to go to a sweet private clinic if you want to, and it is STILL way cheaper than the US because those people have to compete against the universal health care system. Duhhh!

[jennysmurf]

He's right. Like it or not, it doesn't add up....dang it.....I really need this to work...

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/IsVqOe07cdY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[HBox]

He's right. Like it or not, it doesn't add up....dang it.....I really need this to work...

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/IsVqOe07cdY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

It's bullshit. The vast majority of people he is talking about, the sick and elderly, are already covered by Medicare and Medicaid. We are already paying for it. And since the ACA was put into affect the rate of health care spending growth has slowed, so facts rebut his "math," of which there is none to speak of.

He is speaking out against the very concept of insurance as if we didn't already have it. OF COURSE sick people use more health care spending. That's the whole fucking point of INSURANCE. Some people pay more than they put in to pay for those who need more than they pay in. They do this to ENSURE that if they find themselves sick they too will be covered.

And when dealing with the concept of INSURANCE one of the most important factors is the size of the risk pool. The bigger the pool the better. Unless of course we accept his premise that the system is about be inundated with 500 pound diabetic heart failure patients. There may be be a lot of sick people waiting to get into the pool but there are many more people who previously couldn't afford or didn't have access to health insurance.

But the fact that "sick people are more expensive to treat so we shouldn't do it" is a valid argument, which he is essentially saying without saying because he is a coward without the courage to verbalize what he actually thinks, is the biggest reason I hate this country and most of the people in it. And every time someone whines about the ACA my heart warms. Your tears are delicious.

[Dude!]

It's bullshit. ...is the biggest reason I hate this country and most of the people in it. And every time someone whines about the ACA my heart warms. Your tears are delicious.

wow...such vitriol against
the benign and loveable jennysmurf

[jennysmurf]

wow...such vitriol against
the benign and loveable jennysmurf

I took no offense. I've said myself that I need the current system to change--and I still have high hopes for the ACA. It's just really hard to separate facts from fiction. That's why I post things here--someone is going to have something to say about it so that I can see things from all sides. I do appreciate your concern though. :wink:

[deliciousV]

It's bullshit. The vast majority of people he is talking about, the sick and elderly, are already covered by Medicare and Medicaid. We are already paying for it. And since the ACA was put into affect the rate of health care spending growth has slowed, so facts rebut his "math," of which there is none to speak of.

He is speaking out against the very concept of insurance as if we didn't already have it. OF COURSE sick people use more health care spending. That's the whole fucking point of INSURANCE. Some people pay more than they put in to pay for those who need more than they pay in. They do this to ENSURE that if they find themselves sick they too will be covered.

And when dealing with the concept of INSURANCE one of the most important factors is the size of the risk pool. The bigger the pool the better. Unless of course we accept his premise that the system is about be inundated with 500 pound diabetic heart failure patients. There may be be a lot of sick people waiting to get into the pool but there are many more people who previously couldn't afford or didn't have access to health insurance.

But the fact that "sick people are more expensive to treat so we shouldn't do it" is a valid argument, which he is essentially saying without saying because he is a coward without the courage to verbalize what he actually thinks, is the biggest reason I hate this country and most of the people in it. And every time someone whines about the ACA my heart warms. Your tears are delicious.

Wazzat?

[jennysmurf]

Wazzat?

So is he saying that you're the cause of my tears? Cause it would be great to have someone to blame.

[deliciousV]

So is he saying that you're the cause of my tears? Cause it would be great to have someone to blame.

blame away M'dear, anything I can do to help.

[Pitdoc]

So is he saying that you're the cause of my tears? Cause it would be great to have someone to blame.

Sweet tears might be a sign of diabetes. The ACA would cover you for that.

[jennysmurf]

Sweet tears might be a sign of diabetes. The ACA would cover you for that.

DelV ain't sweet, so I think I'm okay.

[deliciousV]

DelV ain't sweet, so I think I'm okay.

am so

[jennysmurf]

am so

Nuh uh.

[deliciousV]

Nuh uh.

compelling argument, I give.:surrender:

[keithy_19]

Look, Jenny's tears are clearly a source of nutrition for HBox. Under ACA she will be forced to well up often to treat everyone with those magical sweet droplets of sadness.

I'm sorry Jenny, but it's up to you to save us all.

[SonOfSmeagol]

But the fact that "sick people are more expensive to treat so we shouldn't do it" is a valid argument, which he is essentially saying without saying because he is a coward without the courage to verbalize what he actually thinks, is the biggest reason I hate this country and most of the people in it. And every time someone whines about the ACA my heart warms. Your tears are delicious.
he didn't say that at all - he simply said that it will have to be paid for by someone, and he's right.

Your comment about the tears is so fucking pretentious and douchey, wtf.

And who the fuck cares what you say about the "the biggest reason I hate this country and most of the people in it". Since you bring it up -- keep your reasons to yourself, stfu, and get the fuck out. good fucking riddance.

[jennysmurf]

Look, Jenny's tears are clearly a source of nutrition for HBox. Under ACA she will be forced to well up often to treat everyone with those magical sweet droplets of sadness.

I'm sorry Jenny, but it's up to you to save us all.

Dang it, that's all I need!

[sailor]

Knock it off, you two. (Pick any two. Mix-and-match. Have fun with it.)

[jennysmurf]

Knock it off, you two. (Pick any two. Mix-and-match. Have fun with it.)

I didn't do nothin.

[SonOfSmeagol]

about obama care:

All citizens are required to have health insurance by jan 2014 or face a fine, a fine much lower than the insurance itself. According to the plan, most of the citizens must buy insurance in order to generate enough $ to provide subsidies for the rest.

There are no barriers to attaining insurance anytime if you have pre-existing conditions.

There are a lot of people who surely need and will sign up, but there seems also to be a lot of people who don't want or need insurance.

Why, then, would any person who doesn't want or need insurance sign up rather than pay the fine and then jump on board when they need to? And, if they don't sign up, then doesn't that blow the subsidies model? Who pays for the subsidies then - surely not the fine-payer? Why not make the fine the same as the cost of insurance and send the slacker a policy - a mandate is a fucking mandate!

[Pitdoc]

about obama care:

All citizens are required to have health insurance by jan 2014 or face a fine, a fine much lower than the insurance itself. According to the plan, most of the citizens must buy insurance in order to generate enough $ to provide subsidies for the rest.


Why, then, would any person who doesn't want or need insurance sign up rather than pay the fine and then jump on board when they need to? And, if they don't sign up, then doesn't that blow the subsidies model? Who pays for the subsidies then - surely not the fine-payer? Why not make the fine the same as the cost of insurance and send the slacker a policy - a mandate is a fucking mandate!

THAT is the reason for those creepy ads(not sure who REALLY paid for them) that show Uncle Sam giving a pelvic to a girl with Obamacare . They figure that if they can't well, fairly legislate it out,, they'll try to STARVE the law by getting all young people to not sign up . But that was already delineated before the bill passed (and by the way, it is now THE LAW OF THE LAND) All they need is 7 million people to sign up , and they're clear..If a lot more than 7 million sign up , then it SAVES the government money .. a lot , over 10 years (Check the CBO) . It was fought out over the course of the law ( Yes, there were "negotiations" , over a year of them ) But single payer got tossed out rather early , as both Obama and the Dems saw it was a hill too high to climb. They gave HUNDREDS of amendments to the law to the Right wing..in exchange for NO votes in the House.

[SonOfSmeagol]

THAT is the reason for those creepy ads(not sure who REALLY paid for them) that show Uncle Sam giving a pelvic to a girl with Obamacare .They figure that if they can't well, fairly legislate it out,, they'll try to STARVE the law by getting all young people to not sign up . But that was already delineated before the bill passed (and by the way, it is now THE LAW OF THE LAND) All they need is 7 million people to sign up , and they're clear..If a lot more than 7 million sign up , then it SAVES the government money .. a lot , over 10 years (Check the CBO) . It was fought out over the course of the law ( Yes, there were "negotiations" , over a year of them ) But single payer got tossed out rather early , as both Obama and the Dems saw it was a hill too high to climb. They gave HUNDREDS of amendments to the law to the Right wing..in exchange for NO votes in the House.

what is the reason, again?

And no votes in the senate either, not to mention that quite a few dems voted nay and it barely squeaked thru the house. But think of the opportunity squandered by the powers that be at that time to craft a bipartisan effort. they didn't give shit, btw, to the "Right wing" because they had the majorities and there was no need to

[keithy_19]

I didn't do nothin.

Quit your dodging and start your crying. I've been on my feet all day and my back is sore.

[jennysmurf]

Quit your dodging and start your crying. I've been on my feet all day and my back is sore.

I'll get you off your feet and onto your back.:devil2:

[keithy_19]

I'll get you off your feet and onto your back.:devil2:

So...you like to ride?

Neat.

[jennysmurf]

So...you like to ride?

Neat.

Not really, I just thought it made a nice euphemism. Sorry to disappoint. :down:

[Pitdoc]

what is the reason, again?

And no votes in the senate either, not to mention that quite a few dems voted nay and it barely squeaked thru the house. But think of the opportunity squandered by the powers that be at that time to craft a bipartisan effort. they didn't give shit, btw, to the "Right wing" because they had the majorities and there was no need to

The quote was asking about young people signing up for insurance. MY QUOTE was responding to it, saying that the new TV ads, and the college visits by some groups , are designed to STOP young college students from signing up .

The reason why there would never be a bipartisan effort is quite obvious .. When it was pushed by Romney in Massachusets , it was a sensible way to make people responsible for their health care .Unfortunately, the ACA was proposed and pushed by Blackenstein ( I love how Bill Maher keeps making up these nametags for the scary black man who is obviously a communist socialist Kenyan) .

[SonOfSmeagol]

The quote was asking about young people signing up for insurance. MY QUOTE was responding to it, saying that the new TV ads, and the college visits by some groups , are designed to STOP young college students from signing up .

The reason why there would never be a bipartisan effort is quite obvious .. When it was pushed by Romney in Massachusets , it was a sensible way to make people responsible for their health care .Unfortunately, the ACA was proposed and pushed by Blackenstein ( I love how Bill Maher keeps making up these nametags for the scary black man who is obviously a communist socialist Kenyan) .
Why would they need to 'scare' anyone when there's no incentive to sign up per my scenario above?

And...your reason that obamacare is a complete partisan job that got NO votes from the opposition is...because he's black?

Good luck with your hyperpartisan foolishness. You come across pretty hopeless in that regard.

[Pitdoc]

Why would they need to 'scare' anyone when there's no incentive to sign up per my scenario above?

And...your reason that obamacare is a complete partisan job that got NO votes from the opposition is...because he's black?

Good luck with your hyperpartisan foolishness. You come across pretty hopeless in that regard.

I guess they don't need to scare anybody...which is why they put out the creepiest ad ever.. What ad ever ends with anybody,let alone a paper mache' Uncle Sam, holding up a speculum( or putting on a glove , as in the male oriented ad that few saw) with a big smile ? Greater than 50% of bankruptcies these days are due to health bills.This includes young people( or their families) .There's a good incentive

This Congress,, and I mean the Republican side , from DAY ONE has said that they will do everything in their power to ruin this man.They for years referred to him as "the other " .Of course, their fringier side still think he is not American (amazing that a good majority of them are from the South ),Why are they so afraid of this strange, unusual ,weird....guy from Hawaii? If you say there's not something funny here , well, who's foolish..I'm just amazed nobody has shot at him yet . of course, if Hllary get elected in 3 years, get ready of years of "She had Vince Foster killed" talk . They IMPEACHED the last Democratic president before Obama

Your hyperpartisan comment is another example of what the media is buying into ...equivalency . Even during Bush's presidency, Congress got things done.. This Congress has done about 20% of what the "Do Nothing Congress" of the 40s did .Yet the Republican version of "compromise" is accept what we are giving you .If you don't , you aren't negotiating. Its what they've said during this whole shutdown debacle(now less so) ,"The President just doesn't want to negotiate ".By "negotiate" they meant either throw away a Law of the Land, or delay it a year, so that the Republicans can run on it next year . If the Dems in 2007 had told George Bush , "We won't approve a debt ceiling unless you ban ALL semi-automatic guns" , would THAT have been a negotiation? Its the REPUBLICAN who have shut down our country , and threaten the world, not the Democrats. Yet all you hear in the 'left -wing media" is that Congress is the cause of all this.

Now, Obama has done a horrible job of selling the ACA, and the computer glitches haven't helped (Once again,, money changed hands to get those lucrative IT contracts, like all government contracts) . But the same thing happened with Medicare . Which, by the way, if Obama had surrendered the ACA for 6 months of a debt ceiling, would have been the NEXT thing on the list to cut in order to keep the global economy spinning. It's why the debt ceiling shouldn't exist . One of the "proposals " that the House put out last night was that the Treasury couldn't use any "emergency measures" to keep the debt ceiling up . Why would th Executive Branch give up ANY of their powers to keep things moving for 6 months?

[Midkiff]

Pitdoc is right on point!

[SonOfSmeagol]

I guess they don't need to scare anybody...which is why they put out the creepiest ad ever.. What ad ever ends with anybody,let alone a paper mache' Uncle Sam, holding up a speculum( or putting on a glove , as in the male oriented ad that few saw) with a big smile ? Greater than 50% of bankruptcies these days are due to health bills.This includes young people( or their families) .There's a good incentive

This Congress,, and I mean the Republican side , from DAY ONE has said that they will do everything in their power to ruin this man.They for years referred to him as "the other " .Of course, their fringier side still think he is not American (amazing that a good majority of them are from the South ),Why are they so afraid of this strange, unusual ,weird....guy from Hawaii? If you say there's not something funny here , well, who's foolish..I'm just amazed nobody has shot at him yet . of course, if Hllary get elected in 3 years, get ready of years of "She had Vince Foster killed" talk . They IMPEACHED the last Democratic president before Obama

Your hyperpartisan comment is another example of what the media is buying into ...equivalency . Even during Bush's presidency, Congress got things done.. This Congress has done about 20% of what the "Do Nothing Congress" of the 40s did .Yet the Republican version of "compromise" is accept what we are giving you .If you don't , you aren't negotiating. Its what they've said during this whole shutdown debacle(now less so) ,"The President just doesn't want to negotiate ".By "negotiate" they meant either throw away a Law of the Land, or delay it a year, so that the Republicans can run on it next year . If the Dems in 2007 had told George Bush , "We won't approve a debt ceiling unless you ban ALL semi-automatic guns" , would THAT have been a negotiation? Its the REPUBLICAN who have shut down our country , and threaten the world, not the Democrats. Yet all you hear in the 'left -wing media" is that Congress is the cause of all this.

Now, Obama has done a horrible job of selling the ACA, and the computer glitches haven't helped (Once again,, money changed hands to get those lucrative IT contracts, like all government contracts) . But the same thing happened with Medicare . Which, by the way, if Obama had surrendered the ACA for 6 months of a debt ceiling, would have been the NEXT thing on the list to cut in order to keep the global economy spinning. It's why the debt ceiling shouldn't exist . One of the "proposals " that the House put out last night was that the Treasury couldn't use any "emergency measures" to keep the debt ceiling up . Why would th Executive Branch give up ANY of their powers to keep things moving for 6 months?

ya, thanks for proving my point in that your entire post blames the "other side" except for obama not selling it well enough (huh? the most effective political team in modern times couldn't sell it?) and his "glitches". Just a few highlights:

"....There's a good incentive " - not for the scenario I outlined above, there isn't

"The President just doesn't want to negotiate " - obama: "I will not negotiate"

"By "negotiate" they meant either throw away a Law of the Land, or delay it a year" - law of the land? The one that obama has unilaterally changed to suit his purposes such as delaying certain key verifications that will certainly impact the financial picture of obamacare? That law of the land?

"Yet all you hear in the 'left -wing media" is that Congress is the cause of all this." - no, they're pretty much putting the blame for the shutdown on house repubs, where it belongs.

"Medicare...would have been the NEXT thing on the list to cut" - truth is, medicare and SS needs some serious fixes or we're fucked. even obama SAID this, but he still has yet to act.

[Snoogans]

ya, thanks for proving my point in that your entire post blames the "other side" except for obama not selling it well enough (huh? the most effective political team in modern times couldn't sell it?) and his "glitches". Just a few highlights:

"....There's a good incentive " - not for the scenario I outlined above, there isn't

"The President just doesn't want to negotiate " - obama: "I will not negotiate"

"By "negotiate" they meant either throw away a Law of the Land, or delay it a year" - law of the land? The one that obama has unilaterally changed to suit his purposes such as delaying certain key verifications that will certainly impact the financial picture of obamacare? That law of the land?

"Yet all you hear in the 'left -wing media" is that Congress is the cause of all this." - no, they're pretty much putting the blame for the shutdown on house repubs, where it belongs.

"Medicare...would have been the NEXT thing on the list to cut" - truth is, medicare and SS needs some serious fixes or we're fucked. even obama SAID this, but he still has yet to act.

i havent followed really any of this argument, so im not commenting on any of your opinion or whatever. Just to point out, there was a reason Obama wouldnt negotiate.
Its because they had already negotiated, over the summer, and him and boehner and the repubs and dems all came to a deal that they would keep obamacare, and pass a clean budget in exchange for Dems taking a budget that was 70 bill less than they were asking for. The Dems agreed to the concessions, and then went about there business. When it came time to vote on a budget, the Repubs backed out of the deal (which they planned to do the entire time, as it turns out) and demanded more shit. I wouldnt negotiate after that, either.

[SonOfSmeagol]

i havent followed really any of this argument, so im not commenting on any of your opinion or whatever. Just to point out, there was a reason Obama wouldnt negotiate.
Its because they had already negotiated, over the summer, and him and boehner and the repubs and dems all came to a deal that they would keep obamacare, and pass a clean budget in exchange for Dems taking a budget that was 70 bill less than they were asking for. The Dems agreed to the concessions, and then went about there business. When it came time to vote on a budget, the Repubs backed out of the deal (which they planned to do the entire time, as it turns out) and demanded more shit. I wouldnt negotiate after that, either.
Not really. Those cuts were already in place because of sequester.

[Pitdoc]

ya, thanks for proving my point in that your entire post blames the "other side" except for obama not selling it well enough (huh? the most effective political team in modern times couldn't sell it?) and his "glitches". Just a few highlights:

"....There's a good incentive " - not for the scenario I outlined above, there isn't

"The President just doesn't want to negotiate " - obama: "I will not negotiate"

"By "negotiate" they meant either throw away a Law of the Land, or delay it a year" - law of the land? The one that obama has unilaterally changed to suit his purposes such as delaying certain key verifications that will certainly impact the financial picture of obamacare? That law of the land?

"Yet all you hear in the 'left -wing media" is that Congress is the cause of all this." - no, they're pretty much putting the blame for the shutdown on house repubs, where it belongs.

"Medicare...would have been the NEXT thing on the list to cut" - truth is, medicare and SS needs some serious fixes or we're fucked. even obama SAID this, but he still has yet to act.

Lets look at your proposal above

All citizens are required to have health insurance by jan 2014 or face a fine, a fine much lower than the insurance itself. According to the plan, most of the citizens must buy insurance in order to generate enough $ to provide subsidies for the rest.

There are no barriers to attaining insurance anytime if you have pre-existing conditions.

There are a lot of people who surely need and will sign up, but there seems also to be a lot of people who don't want or need insurance.

Why, then, would any person who doesn't want or need insurance sign up rather than pay the fine and then jump on board when they need to? And, if they don't sign up, then doesn't that blow the subsidies model? Who pays for the subsidies then - surely not the fine-payer? Why not make the fine the same as the cost of insurance and send the slacker a policy - a mandate is a fucking mandate!


Well, they COULDN'T make a mandate the cost of the insurance, as a higher penalty was negotiated away after a full years battle . As stated , they need 7 million to sign up to break even.When 40 million can sign up,thats a lot of savings. Subsidies from well people to help sick people? It's not "socialism" .It's called INSURANCE. The small $90 fine will make up for those people who will eventually wind up in my emergency room & not pay their bill

By "negotiate " he meant 2 things. First,, he would NOT give up the ACA .Not by defunding it, not by delaying it .At teh end , the only thing the Republicans wanted was to not fund the subsides...of their own staffers .. Smooth move. He ALSO wasn't going to negotiate anything in order for the Congress to do their job & pass the debt ceiling.

Yes, its a law of the land.. Passed by both the House and Senate, validated by the Supreme Court ,and , again, verified by the American people when they voted to re-eelect teh president and to keep the Senate in the Democratic majority .Yes , he's delayed something that he COULD delay .Don't really see Congress going to impeach him for that , do you? . Yes, THAT law of the land. You GET NOTHING!! You LOSE!!! GOOD DAY SIR!!!

They first mention Congress, but I must admit that they're (finally ) breaking things down and splitting it between Dems & Repubs.. And the difference is NEWS.

Not going to argue with you there.. First, for SS & Medicare..Cut out the cutoff in tax for anybody earning more than $140 K. But then , the Dems want those taxes on and the Repubs want to cut Grandma's SS check in half .The only thing they SHOULD( but don't ) pass is a law making Medicare fraud punishable by life imprisonment , with no parole . Make screwing the government HURT.

[SonOfSmeagol]

Yes , he's delayed something that he COULD delay .Don't really see Congress going to impeach him for that , do you? . Yes, THAT law of the land. You GET NOTHING!! You LOSE!!! GOOD DAY SIR!!!

The only thing they SHOULD( but don't ) pass is a law making Medicare fraud punishable by life imprisonment , with no parole . Make screwing the government HURT.

good day to YOU, sir! :laugh:

that punishment seems a little harsh - how about if they pay it back with interest, and penalty?

[Pitdoc]

good day to YOU, sir! :laugh:

that punishment seems a little harsh - how about if they pay it back with interest, and penalty?

But they've got to fill those prisons somehow, if they're starting to decriminalize drugs(kidding)

Truce.. Go over to the Cute Chick GIF thread at the end & watch bouncing boobs.It makes all this horseshit worthless.

[SonOfSmeagol]

But they've got to fill those prisons somehow, if they're starting to decriminalize drugs(kidding)

Truce.. Go over to the Cute Chick GIF thread at the end & watch bouncing boobs.It makes all this horseshit worthless.
Absolutely! It takes two boobs - left and right - to make a perfect set. :laugh:

[SonOfSmeagol]

this thing is turning out to be kind of a stinker

[epo]

Not really, I just thought it made a nice euphemism. Sorry to disappoint. :down:

Vixen.

[Dude!]

hey epo,
premiums doubling for some
and way up for everyone
in Wisconsin...
nice work!

http://www.maciverinstitute.com/

[Dude!]

And when dealing with the concept of INSURANCE one of the most important factors is the size of the risk pool. The bigger the pool the better. Unless of course we accept his premise that the system is about be inundated with 500 pound diabetic heart failure patients. There may be be a lot of sick people waiting to get into the pool but there are many more people who previously couldn't afford or didn't have access to health insurance.

But the fact that "sick people are more expensive to treat so we shouldn't do it" is a valid argument, which he is essentially saying without saying because he is a coward without the courage to verbalize what he actually thinks, is the biggest reason I hate this country and most of the people in it. And every time someone whines about the ACA my heart warms. Your tears are delicious.

it's been a month since this idiot
made this ridiculous post...

i wonder if his heart is still warming?

ha-ha, loser,
looks like the joke's on you
(and the 5 million
who have LOST coverage)

[hanso]

Denial-Of-Service Tool Targeting Healthcare.gov Site Discovered

http://arstechnica.com/security/2013/11/new-denial-of-service-attack-aimed-directly-at-healthcare-gov/

[SonOfSmeagol]

Denial-Of-Service Tool Targeting Healthcare.gov Site Discovered

http://arstechnica.com/security/2013/11/new-denial-of-service-attack-aimed-directly-at-healthcare-gov/
holy shit! oh no! outrage!
Researchers have uncovered software available on the Internet designed to overload the struggling Healthcare.gov website with more traffic than it can handle.

there's no evidence Healthcare.gov has been subjected to any significant denial-of-service attacks since going live last month

[SonOfSmeagol]

it's been a month since this idiot
made this ridiculous post...

i wonder if his heart is still warming?

ha-ha, loser,
looks like the joke's on you
(and the 5 million
who have LOST coverage)

maybe he got his fill of US tears and has moved on to find love in mexico, or canada

[thepaulo]

What more can you ask of the man? He is bending over backwards and kissing his own ass.


http://www.nbcnews.com/health/obamacare-fix-now-where-do-we-go-here-2D11599939

[SonOfSmeagol]

What more can you ask of the man? He is bending over backwards and kissing his own ass.


http://www.nbcnews.com/health/obamacare-fix-now-where-do-we-go-here-2D11599939
it really was more of a half-ass kissing and he only puckered under extreme pressure, not of his own volition. In any case it's way too little way too late

[Dude!]

liars deserve what they get

[A.J.]

So my company sent me a form to fill out with the attached:

Healthcare reform law states certain dental coverage benefits for children as one of 10 required “essential health benefits”. All members, no matter what their age, gender (male or female), or parental status (kids or no kids), must have all 10 essential health benefits, including pediatric dental coverage.

I have no kids but I have to carry pediatric dental coverage? Do I get maternity time as well?

So fucking stupid and wasteful.

[PapaBear]

The mind wobbles. Doesn't it?

http://thumbnails.hulu.com/10/333/31958_384x288_generated__SNT4rg18fkiWM%2BYPYvABCw. jpg

[A.J.]

Vital Social Issues N' Stuff with Kelly!

[PapaBear]

Vital Social Issues N' Stuff with Kelly!
All of my knowledge of social issues is based on that show.