~ Pacific Politics ~

[spoon]

Very solid reporting here tied to the politics of the South China Sea and the Pacific Ocean corridor mainly concerning China...go figure.

South China Sea Disputes with Potential World Geopolitical Fallout (http://www.nytimes.com/newsgraphics/2013/10/27/south-china-sea/)

[A.J.]

This is kind of a big deal in terms of China's Blue Water naval aspirations, not to mention the Philippines could use the oil revenue from the Spratlys.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

One topic that has not been brought up too much is the trans pacific partnership. This is going to be NAFTA on roids. It will entail more corporatism. NAFTA CAFTA and TPP isn't free trade.

[spoon]

Explain that more wf, I know little of the tpp and who it would involve/hurt, but do not like the comparisons to nafta/cafta.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

It involves many of the Pacific rim countries like Japan, Malaysia, Singapore, and others. It also has countries in South America like Chile involved

This is being done behind closed doors and it passes a lot of authority to the President.
If you think Jobs exported to Mexico and India are bad, there is going to be more exported to countries especially in Southeast Asia.

It involves more involvement with the WTO as well. I didn't hear that much about the TPP until about a year ago

Its worse than NAFTA/CAFTA because more countries are involved I wasn't thrilled about NAFTA/CAFTA but at the very least it wasn't done in secret.

I don't know why the TPP isn't getting more coverage.

[spoon]

yah, that should be more visible surely…but probably isn't bc the public is much more aware of the negative dynamics of the prior agreements and they are probably hiding it purposely at this point

[SonOfSmeagol]

Very solid reporting here tied to the politics of the South China Sea and the Pacific Ocean corridor mainly concerning China...go figure.

South China Sea Disputes with Potential World Geopolitical Fallout (http://www.nytimes.com/newsgraphics/2013/10/27/south-china-sea/)
very cool multimedia article

rekindling with philippines is a good idea. not to take anything from the chinese people, but the nationalism is kind of concerning

[spoon]

Very concerning and that forrest expansion quote nails it.

[keithy_19]

Very concerning and that forrest expansion quote nails it.

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110518220324/athfwiki/images/9/9f/Frameyourmom.jpg

[spoon]

Those dumb bastard trees!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

NY Times is on board with the TPP


http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-switch/wp/2013/11/08/the-new-york-times-endorsed-a-secretive-trade-agreement-that-the-public-cant-read/?tid=pm_business_pop

[spoon]

Yah you know me!

[spoon]

THIS is something that should be in the press on both sides of the isle, NOT bullshit witch hunts like Benghazi, fast and furious or any time Obama takes a shit on the clock.

[Kevin]

THIS is something that should be in the press on both sides of the isle, NOT bullshit witch hunts like Benghazi, fast and furious or any time Obama takes a shit on the clock.

Bah, we are too busy waiting in line for the next big video game or what talentless hack did for attention.

Revolutions in America are dead.

They have succeeded in placing our attention to anywhere but what they are doing.

[spoon]

Sad but somewhat true. It'll change when the shit really hits the fan.

[Kevin]

Sad but somewhat true. It'll change when the shit really hits the fan.

There was already one and it failed miserably because of lack of coordination,communication and a Commissioner being in the bankers pocket...

No big coincidence that Kelly who fought hard to stifle OWS will now have a big security job at JP Morgan.

He was in James Dimon's back pocket.

[spoon]

Shocker

[Kevin]

It involves many of the Pacific rim countries like Japan, Malaysia, Singapore, and others. It also has countries in South America like Chile involved

This is being done behind closed doors and it passes a lot of authority to the President.
If you think Jobs exported to Mexico and India are bad, there is going to be more exported to countries especially in Southeast Asia.

It involves more involvement with the WTO as well. I didn't hear that much about the TPP until about a year ago

Its worse than NAFTA/CAFTA because more countries are involved I wasn't thrilled about NAFTA/CAFTA but at the very least it wasn't done in secret.

I don't know why the TPP isn't getting more coverage.


So what you're saying is they are doing this....INCOGNITO?



http://i.huffpost.com/gadgets/slideshows/266290/slide_266290_1813665_free.gif?1354114715769

[spoon]

Heating up? (http://news.yahoo.com/china-military-sends-air-patrols-defense-zone-033423305.html)

[A.J.]

This is Quemoy and Matsu all over again. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Taiwan_Strait_Crisis)

[spoon]

it happened a few year later in much the same fashion too

yet you read this again and realize just why other countries wanted atomic weapons even more so back then

On September 12, the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff recommended the use of nuclear weapons against mainland China. Eisenhower, however, resisted pressure to use nuclear weapons or involve American troops in the conflict. However, on December 2, 1954, the United States and the ROC agreed to the Sino-American Mutual Defense Treaty, which did not apply to islands along the Chinese mainland. This treaty was ratified by the U.S. Senate on February 9, 1955.


I mean nuclear attacks that quick and for that?! Talk about an itchy trigger finger.

[A.J.]

This was the Eisenhower policy of "brinksmanship". The Quemoy-Matsu affair made the administration realize that this policy was ridiculous: we would go to nuclear war over a couple of little islands that were valuable for guano (bat droppings)? Kennedy ushered in the era of "flexible response": a balanced, conventional response.

(Forgive me: this was my major in college -- back when there was still a Soviet Union).

[spoon]

This was the Eisenhower policy of "brinksmanship". The Quemoy-Matsu affair made the administration realize that this policy was ridiculous: we would go to nuclear war over a couple of little islands that were valuable for guano (bat droppings)? Kennedy ushered in the era of "flexible response": a balanced, conventional response.

(Forgive me: this was my major in college -- back when there was still a Soviet Union).

forgive you, no way…keep it coming!

I love history and have already learned plenty just paying attention to a region I hardly did until the last few years. You can call me the Pro Holy See bc I'm rooting for the ROC to take China (PROC)! Ha! As if THAT will happen!

Seriously though, very interesting time after WWII in that region, as it is again now.

[A.J.]

You can call me the Pro Holy See bc I'm rooting for the ROC to take China (PROC)! Ha! As if THAT will happen!

Yeah, thanks President Carter for another brilliant foreign policy move there for breaking off relations with Taiwan. That was the same year he gave the Panama Canal back to Panama.

When I lived in DC, up the street from my house was the "Taiwan Economic and Cultural Representative Office in the U.S." -- basically their embassy since we don't have formal relations with Taiwan (sorry Chien-Ming Wang). And down the street was the "Interests Section of the Islamic Republic of Iran".

[Syd]

Yeah, thanks President Carter for another brilliant foreign policy move there for breaking off relations with Taiwan.

It helped with the Sino-Soviet split. China had been our proxy to fight the Soviets after Nixon went to China. After more work by the US, the world had a new entrant (China) to the second Great Game and one that had local interest in it.

That was the same year he gave the Panama Canal back to Panama.

The options were to give it back or engage in a land war in Panama. They were pretty upset about sovereignty issues and the issue had been going on for over a decade that came to a head with the January 9th/Martyr's Day riots.

[spoon]

They just renamed it the Mariano Canal.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Latest on TPP.


If anything, this underscores even more that Obama is another corporatist shill. All this talk about his concern for the middle class is a load of BS



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/08/tpp-trade-agreement_n_4409211.html?icid=maing-grid7%7Cmain5%7Cdl1%7Csec1_lnk2%26pLid%3D416353

[spoon]

You are just incapable huh?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

At least Romney was overt about him being a corporatist and proving it every day.


Barack goes around saying inequality etc while carousing with hedge fund managers and raising tons of cash, He's just as big as a shill. However his followers blindly believe that he's one of them


The TPP is just another win for crony capitalism, favoritism and DC insiders.