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  • Getting Rid of the IRS

    There is a proposal to replace the IRS with a national sales tax. What do you think?

    Personally I think it will catch all these fuckers that work "off the books" and be much more fair than the current system where people are able to avoid paying their fare share. Now your neighbor that owns a restaurant will have to pay taxes on that money he bought the BMW with.


  • #2
    How high would the sales tax be?

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    • #3
      I agree with it. I think it is the fairest way to deal with income proportionately as it applies to wealth. I&#39;d need to see the details as how they would deal with poorest in the nation and ensuring that their sales taxes get placed back in their pockets.



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      • #4
        IRS has been lloongg ggoonnee... ;p



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        • #5
          How high would the sales tax be?
          I&#39;ve heard about 23%.

          The thing is, despite all this talk about it being simpler, I think it would end up being just as complex as the old system. How long before some items start to get taxed more, and some less? How long til you can defer taxes. Politics is all about benefiting this constituent group or that, and inevitably, that would occur in a new tax system.

          The other thing is, the sales tax would have to apply to every purchase, including stuff like stocks. I have to say I don&#39;t have much faith that the Republicans who support a national sales tax would also support having securities taxed at 23%.

          Finally, despite this talk of not having an IRS, how will we make sure everyone pays the right amount of tax? And can you imagine getting audited for that - you&#39;d have to keep your receipts from the whole year.

          ------------------------------
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          • #6
            So would it work that of you made 50,000 per year, you would actually get 50,000 per year. And then every purchase you made would have a 23% tax on it. That works out much better for most people, considering you are probably in a higher tax bracket than that now. Would we still pay the 6%(or whatever) state tax on top of the 23%? Either way, I think you would still come out ahead.

            The thing is how would they take out for medicare and all of the other wonderful deductions?

            And what about interest earned, all tax free?


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            • #7
              There is really no concrete proposal for this yet. And, seriously, don&#39;t believe that there will be no more IRS. There has to be some kind of enforcement agency for this, no matter if they call it the IRS or something else.

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              • #8
                That works out much better for most people, considering you are probably in a higher tax bracket than that now.
                Actually, that&#39;s not the case at all. I&#39;m not sure about the bracket&#39;s, but I know there are lower brackets than that, and when you take into account dedcutions and tax credits, most people pay less than 23%.

                And what about interest earned, all tax free?
                Usually under these proposals, savings and investements are tax free. It&#39;s supposed to encourage people to save. The only problem is I don&#39;t think a lot people have a choice as to whether to save or not.

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                • #9
                  It&#39;s supposed to encourage people to save.
                  Actually the deal with this proposal is that it it trying to eliminate fraud. Other governments have much greater success at collecting the sales tax (aka Value Added Tax) than individual taxes and although there are schemes to beat the taxes the fraud is more difficult. Individuals have no tax returns limiting those with an incentive to cheat and hopefully reducing fraud.

                  The big "but" here is what Silera points out. The poor spend a higher percentage of their income than the rich. Under a sales tax propsal the poor would then be bearing a higher percentage (proportionally) of the tax burden.

                  To fix that you&#39;d need tax returns proof of income and we&#39;d be back to the IRS thing.

                  I personally like the idea because it cuts back on the "cash" economy, but there are too many "vested" interests on both sides of the aisle.

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                  • #10

                    I agree with it. I think it is the fairest way to deal with income proportionately as it applies to wealth
                    Thats false. Sales tax is a regressive tax. The less you make, the higher the percentage of your money goes into taxes.

                    I do agree that it is the best way for uber-rich types to pay their fair share, but for those not in the highest brackets it could be a nightmare.

                    Also, does this mean that items will now be taxed twice? By the state and by the federal government?

                    One last point. Personally, a 20-something percentage tax would make me think twice about any purchases I make. This plan would put a lot more money into my pocket, but not a whole lot would go back into the economy. I simply wouldnt spend the amount of money that I currently do.

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                    • #11
                      Why would anyone want to get rid if Irs? She&#39;s one of the better callers.


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                      • #12
                        Steve Forbes put this idea out there when he ran in 96. He hsaid he could balance everything with a 19% flat tax


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                        • #13
                          Well, if everyone is paying a 20% tax, wouldn&#39;t my 20% tax on my Saturn be proportionate with a wealthier person&#39;s 20% tax on a BMW?

                          I just think that while the excessively rich do not need to use most of their disposable income, the income they do use gets spent at a different level than the general public.

                          I still have reservations regarding the give back to the middle class and poor, but this is not a communist society so maybe a flat tax/sales tax is the most democratic way of dealing with income.

                          On a social level, the increased income that is assumed because tax evasion would be eliminated (allegedly), could be used to address social programs to provide better education, training, healthcare, and housing so that no matter how little you earn, you will have the basic tools required to live.

                          Once you have a population where the bare minimum isn&#39;t sub par, the responsibility lies in the individual to decide if they want to live at the bare minimum or work their way out of it.

                          This is all hypothetical and of course isn&#39;t impossible now, but the idea intrigues me just the same.


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                          • #14

                            Well, if everyone is paying a 20% tax, wouldn&#39;t my 20% tax on my Saturn be proportionate with a wealthier person&#39;s 20% tax on a BMW
                            You don&#39;t seem to understand.

                            If I make 100,000 a year, and I&#39;m paying 20% on everything i buy, I can afford that.

                            If I make 20,000 a year, and I&#39;m paying 20% on everything I buy, thats a much larger % of my money towards taxes.

                            The tax system we have now is progessive, meaning that the more you make the more you pay. Well, thats the theory any way. Thats what tax brackets are. If you only make a little but of money, you are only taxed a small percentage of that. If you make a shitload, your tax rate is supposed to be very high.

                            By doing a sales tax, or a flat tax, you are screwing poor people. They dont have the extra money to pay the sales tax. If it now costs 15,000 a year to buy groceries, a rich person wont have a problem, but if the person only making 20,000 a year is paying 15,000 annually for groceries, he&#39;s fucked.

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                            • #15
                              That&#39;s why I want see how the difference would be taken care of.

                              20% sales tax, combined with a flat tax, and rebates/incentives for the poor may be better than the current system.

                              I think the current system sucks for the poor and sucks harder for the middle class. So, maybe considering a change, and trying to deal with the pros and cons of it wouldn&#39;t hurt.


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