Pat Tillman killed in Afghanistan

[Freakshow]

No link yet, being reported on another board.

The man passed up on millions of dollars playing in the NFL to join the army. It's a sad end to his story, considering he would have been young enough to return to the Cardinals after he served.


edit: Here is a <a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4815441/">Link</a>

Rest in Peace, Pat.

<img src=http://www.christpuncherrecords.com/sigs/moon.jpg>
I left my brain inside my other head

This message was edited by Freakshow on 4-23-04 @ 10:32 AM

[Tall_James]

Drudge is reporting it as a headline.


<img src=http://home.comcast.net/~jamesgpatton/tj2_sig.gif>

The Priest wore black on the seventh day and sat stone-faced while the building burned
[center]The Best Blog You're Not Reading (http://cheeseeatingbird.blogspot.com)

[Jack_Doff]

This news greatly saddens me. From everything I've read about him, I think he'd be disappointed that his death was singled out amongst all the dying over there, but I think he deserves to be recognized.

[Iamnotatool]

Abosolutely fucking brutal

<img src=http://thereisnogod.faithweb.com/images/iamnotatool.gif>
Please don't hold my huge nutbag against me, or I'll hold it against you that you have flapjack tits

[walking joint]

horrible news...as it is about anyone who is killed in Afghanistan. just knowing the name though makes it seem so much more personal. i remember before he was leaving they were doing interviews with him and his family and thinking how cool of a guy he was. very sad.

[Patches]

A true American hero. Alot of people talk of patriotism, but to walk away from a 3.6 million dollar contract to play football and serve your country in it's most desperate hour takes a man. If there is a God, and I like to believe there is, Mr. Tillman has his ticket to heaven punched. May he rest in peace.

http://sportsmed.starwave.com/media/nfl/2001/0530/photo/s_tillman_i.jpg



<img src=http://img24.photobucket.com/albums/v72/bcqueens/patches2.jpg>

<b>I'll punch every one of those bees in the face. Fuck bees. -Dane Cook</B>

[Freakshow]

Here is an older link when when he made his decision to leave the Cardinals.

<a href="http://www.nfl.com/teams/story/ARI/5364143">Linky</a>



<img src=http://www.christpuncherrecords.com/sigs/moon.jpg>
I left my brain inside my other head

[Crippler]

Here's the sad news as reported by CNN-SI (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/football/nfl/04/23/tillman.killed/index.html?cnn=yes) just a few minutes ago.

Damn, it's people like this that make it easy to remain proud to be an American, even when our country does foolish things. This is such a shame.

http://pic5.picturetrail.com/VOL77/857148/1548180/50299178.jpg
Let's get Sirius...
I plead the FiF!

[Wormwood]

I'm gutted.

Whether I agree with them or not, I greatly respect how his strong sense of values urged him to follow through with something so dangerous to his own life. He must have been a great person to know and be friends with.


<IMG SRC="http://img1.photobucket.com/albums/0903/dfaz11779/3e855bc7.gif">
UEFA Cup Semi-Final
First Leg
Newcastle 0 Marseille 0

[mdr55]

Rest in Peace Pat.


*Edit----- What's sad is I've been listening to ESPN radio and didn't hear anything about it. But yet they keep talking about the draft and Eli "fucking" Manning Drama queen.

This message was edited by mdr55 on 4-23-04 @ 12:27 PM

[furie]

http://tseery.homestead.com/files/us_flag_animated.gif


<img src="http://tseery.homestead.com/files/hanzo.jpg">

[JohnnyCash]

Thats terrible. I remember when the news came out that he was leaving football to join the Army. He was definetely someone to respect. Its tragic.

I am very, very sorry to hear this news.

<img src=http://img18.photobucket.com/albums/v53/monster6sixty6/guests/cash_sig.jpg>
Big thanks to Monsterone.

[mdr55]

A big FU to all those athletes that compare playing sports to going to war ("It's a war out there"). No one dies after your game is over.

And when those same athletes go on strike complaining they got to support themselves (yet they got like 4 cars, mad jewelry and a nice BIG house)- go fill out an application at McDonalds or something.

[Jennitalia]

That is just horrible.

<IMG SRC="http://www.chaoticconcepts.com/bans/jensig2.gif">

[HBox]

What a tragedy. He sacrificed so much before he even gave his life. To give up millions and fame to serve your country in one of its most dire times of need, when you know war is imminent, when you know this outcome is so very possible just goes to show you what kind of man Pat Tillman was. To use his ample physical gifts not for personal wealth, but for the betterment of our country and our world is an act of courage and heroism.

People like Pat Tillman are most deserving of seeing and living in the world that they are working so hard to create. That he and so many other like him won't be able to is a tragedy among tragedies.

http://members.aol.com/joepersico/myhomepage/sig1.jpg?mtbrand=AOL_US

This message was edited by HBox on 4-23-04 @ 1:35 PM

[Patches]

Statement on Tillman from Former Cards HC Dave McGinnis:

"This is a painful day for the Tillman family and my condolences go out to them. I have known Pat since 1998 and I don't know if I have ever met a more dedicated person in my lifetime. He represented all that was good in sports, bringing passion, honor, integrity and dignity to the game.

Pat knew his purpose in life. He proudly walked away from a career in football to a greater calling, which was to protect and defend our country. Pat represents those who have and will make the ultimate sacrifice for our freedom. I am overwhelmed with a sense of sorrow, but I also feel a tremendous feeling of pride for him and his service.

He was not the first and won't be the last to give his life for his country. He always shunned the limelight and I am sure he would want that continued, but his life deserves to be celebrated and for his story to be told. He and the people he served with are what make this country such a special place. It was an honor to be his friend and coach and I will miss him."


Well said, coach.

<img src=http://img24.photobucket.com/albums/v72/bcqueens/patches2.jpg>

<b>I'll punch every one of those bees in the face. Fuck bees. -Dane Cook</B>

[BoondockSaint]

Rest in Peace Pat.


*Edit----- What's sad is I've been listening to ESPN radio and didn't hear anything about it. But yet they keep talking about the draft and Eli "fucking" Manning Drama queen.

This message was edited by mdr55 on 4-23-04 @ 12:27 PM

To his credit, Francesa has spent his whole show on taking callers talking about it.

RIP Pat.

http://img2.photobucket.com/albums/v11/squrl/albundy.bmp
Thanks to monsterone for the sig!

[BoondockSaint]

Arizona senator John McCain
"I am heartbroken today by the news of Pat Tillman's death. The tragic loss of this extraordinary young man will seem a heavy blow to our nation's morale, as it is surely a grievous injury to his loved ones. Many American families have suffered the same terrible sacrifice that Pat's family must now bear, and the patriotism that their loved ones' exemplified is as fine and compelling as Pat's. But there is in Pat Tillman's example, in his unexpected choice of duty to his country over the riches and other comforts of celebrity, and in his humility, such an inspiration to all of us to reclaim the essential public-spiritedness of Americans that many of us, in low moments, had worried was no longer our common distinguishing trait.

"When Pat made his choice to leave the NFL and became an Army Ranger, he declined requests for interviews because he viewed his decision as no more patriotic than that of his less-fortunate, less-renowned countrymen who loved our country enough to volunteer to defend her in a time of peril. It is that first lesson of patriotism that we should reaffirm in our own lives as we celebrate the courageous life and mourn the heroic death of this most honorable American."




http://img2.photobucket.com/albums/v11/squrl/albundy.bmp
Thanks to monsterone for the sig!

[Patches]

Damn... the more I read about this the more I learn what a cool character this guy this guy actually was- Graduated Arizona State in 3 1/2 years with a degree in marketing and a 3.84 GPA.

<img src=http://img24.photobucket.com/albums/v72/bcqueens/patches2.jpg>

<b>I'll punch every one of those bees in the face. Fuck bees. -Dane Cook</B>

[BrianTheBailBondsman]

Well that knocks the hell out of blackJesus' rant on doumb athletes.<P> But all kidding aside... Its men like this that are the reason that we live as free as we do... God bless him and all those who have and who continue to protect our way of life.

<center><img src="http://www.proworldinc.com/images/A1/20/A12020A.jpg" width="128" height="100" border="3" alt=""></a></center>

[douchebagsean]

i wonder how simeon rice feels about his utterly incompentent remarks regarding tillmans decision to leave the nfl now

"eck-a-see + an-frax=
am-ba-lance!"
"im a gonna c-i-l-l my landlord"

[AFRO]

Whats amazing is you hear everyday that there was another soldier killed in iraq or afghanastan.

But now you can put a face to the name. And not just a face but probably a good guy. Somebody who had values. Its a shame that somebody like this is no longer around. Not to say Tillman is different from any other person who dies in combat. Watching sports so much, your able to put a face with such a horrible thing. Its a sad day.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OA_Austin/files/XFilesPics/penguin.gif

"White people are so Scared of Black people"

[TheMojoPin]

http://www.downstreetmagazine.com/images/half-mast.jpg

<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=TheMojoPin">
2% << December boys got it BAD >> "You can tell some lies about the good times we've had, but I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

[keithy_19]

Pat Tillman was such a great man. People like him are few and far between. RIP Pat.


With that being said, I'm sick of our soldiers dying over there. Pull them out. Pull them out and carpet bomb the fucking savages.

http://www.silentpix.com/modules/Coppermine/albums/userpics/dreamcometruesig.jpg

This message was edited by KeithyBoBeefy on 4-23-04 @ 3:43 PM

[TheMojoPin]

Over where?

<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=TheMojoPin">
2% << December boys got it BAD >> "You can tell some lies about the good times we've had, but I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

[Patches]

over 'there'

<img src=http://img24.photobucket.com/albums/v72/bcqueens/patches2.jpg>

<b>I'll punch every one of those bees in the face. Fuck bees. -Dane Cook</B>

[TheMojoPin]

That's what I thought.

<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=TheMojoPin">
2% << December boys got it BAD >> "You can tell some lies about the good times we've had, but I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

[Mike Teacher]

not a big sports fan, didnt really know who he was, maybe i remember the original story, and maybe were supposed to treat all deaths equally or whatever, but just unreal. surreal.

War Is Hell. Literaly rise out of the ground Hell On Earth. Ten years ago Now, right Now, the slaughter in Rwanda was going on unabated, and what have we learned?

Some might posit that this human experiment is on the edge of failure.

<IMG SRC="http://members.aol.com/miketeachr/newsig">

This message was edited by Mike Teacher on 4-23-04 @ 4:49 PM

[keithy_19]

Over in Iraq and over in Afghanistan.

http://www.silentpix.com/modules/Coppermine/albums/userpics/dreamcometruesig.jpg

[Davios]

It absolutely broke my fucking heart when I found out about it this morning. The guy is one of the most stand up personalities I have ever seen in sports. While he was on the cardinals he was making 3 million dollars, the rams offered him 9 and he turned them down stating he wanted to stay with the team that brought him into the league. He was just an incredibly loyal amazing person.

Not sure how many people actually know what Simeon Rice said about him, I did hear someone mention it though. When he left to be an army ranger Rice said it was because he was no good at football. Keeping in mind he broke the cardinal tackle record in one season. Rice said he watched too many rocky and rambo movies. I really hope that now he now realizes what he actually said.

[HBox]

Over in Iraq and over in Afghanistan.

Thanks for taking a thread about remebering a brave hero, and flushing it down the toilet. Good job.

http://members.aol.com/joepersico/myhomepage/sig1.jpg?mtbrand=AOL_US

This message was edited by HBox on 4-23-04 @ 5:25 PM

[Davios]

If anyone gets the chance, turn on espn news at some point today I am pretty sure they are going to be playing the tribute they had at the espy awards last year throughout the day. It's pretty emotional.

[samnyc]

I used to watch him on NY1 every morning. I particularly enjoyed his Today in the Papers segment. RIP Pat.

[A.J.]

Thank you Pat Tillman for your service and sacrifice.

I hope the Cardinals retire his number. It'd be a small way to honor his memory.

<img src=http://img40.photobucket.com/albums/v124/Canofsoup15/Sigs/AJinDC-Sig.jpg>

A Skidmark/canofsoup15 production.

Red Sox Nation

[HBox]

I hope the Cardinals retire his number. It'd be a small way to honor his memory.

People in Arizona are already trying to get the Cardinals to name their new stadium after him.

http://members.aol.com/joepersico/myhomepage/sig1.jpg?mtbrand=AOL_US

[monsterone]

a hero and a warrior.

<center><img border=1 src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=monsterone01"><br></center>

<center>
<font color=black size=2>don't blame the jews, the italians killed christ</font>
<font color=white>moe & horde king, come back soon</font>


</center>
[color=White]

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Thank you Pat Tillman for your unselfishness and your dedication and devotion to fighting the good fight and making the supreme sacrifice.

FIRE SATHER!!!!!!!

This message was edited by WRESTLINGFAN on 4-23-04 @ 9:20 PM

[El Mudo]

I hope the Cardinals retire his number. It'd be a small way to honor his memory


I know Arizona State is...i believe i heard the Cards will too...


Are they going to ship his brother home?

http://midatlantic.comcastsportsnet.com/images/maryland_logo.gif
<marquee> M-A-R-Y-L-A-N-D MARYLAND...WILL WINNNNNN!! </marquee>

[Yerdaddy]

He walked the walk. He let principles guide his life over money. For that he made America a better country. May he rest in peace and be remembered with pride by his family.

<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=bonedaddy5">
Fuck it from behind.

[TastelessGinny]

I weighed in on this earlier (http://www.livejournal.com/users/msginnyo/151952.html), from a mother's perspective.

I've got a girl who will be 21 in August, a son who will be turning 15 soon and a 13 year old girl. I can't help but think of Mrs. Tillman tonight.

<center>Ron & Fez Class of 2000<br>Old-old-old school crew</center>

[Duke]

Rest In Peace Pat


do they really now if he is dead yet cuse i hear something on ESPN saying they dont know yet....

<img src="http://images.satcam.aboho.com/dukesig.jpg"

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I remember seeing him on TV after 9/11 and he was saying how his father and grandfather served in the military, and Tillman said something like so many people have fought and died for our freedoms and I havent done a damn thing. Pat you did a great thing and we salute you

FIRE SATHER!!!!!!!

[NewYorkDragons80]

A big FU to all those athletes that compare playing sports to going to war ("It's a war out there"). No one dies after your game is over.
Ding fucking ding. I remember when Any Given Sunday came out and I think it was Jim Brown who said (paraphrasing) "I thought, 'what does Oliver Stone know about football?' and then I thought of Platoon and I knew he understood"

This guys is a real hero. I am absolutely shocked that this has happened. When I first heard of him joining up, I joked that the war in Afghanistan would be over before he finished training. Boy was I wrong. God bless him.

<marquee>
"To insist on strength is not war-mongering. It is peace-mongering." -Senator Barry M. Goldwater "If gold should rust, what will iron do?" -Geoffrey Chaucer "Worship him, I beg you, in a way that is worthy of thinking beings.-Romans 12:1</marquee>
<img src=http://members.aol.com/cityhawk80/images/nydragonssig.bmp?mtbrand=AOL_US>

[waffle]

As I began to hear about this yesterday it just got me thinking about how tragic this war has become and how there is now more of a face on who has been lost and what is going on over there. Besides some of the local guys I have seen in the papers this hits the world of sports and I guess becasue of the fact that Pat was an NFLer and I have seen him play really strikes me.

ESPN had a really good expose on him and his brother this morning which looks like it was done before he was about to go over or at least in his early stages. There was a nice moment of silence this afternoon at the draft and just a nice touch all around to a very class guy. God bless his family and Rest in Peace Pat.

http://pleaseforgetme.com/SIGS/wafflesigy.gif

[FUNKMAN]

All i've heard on the news is the word "hero" which i have to disagree with. I feel he was foolish. His ego was a bit too much and i believe he felt he was 'somewhat invincible'. One thing you learn is no matter how great of shape you are in or how intelligent you think you might be, when you get hit with a few bullets from an 'automatic rifle or happen to be standing near an exploding grenade' you are gonna die like anyone else...

again hindsight is 20/20 but we shouldn't be pushing Democracy down Iraq's throat...

EDIT: open mouth, stick foot in... i 'assumed' he joined to go into Iraq without reading the article...
guess it's just how 'ticked off' i'm getting at the loss of lives and 'money that could be put to much better use here at home'


i'll just leave my original post and 'take it like a man'
:blush:





<img src="http://www.markfarner.com/2001tour/ribfest8_small.jpg">
We're An American Band

This message was edited by FUNKMAN on 4-24-04 @ 6:09 PM

[shamus mcfitzy]

With that being said, I'm sick of our soldiers dying over there. Pull them out. Pull them out and carpet bomb the fucking savages.


if anything should just be noted it is that people are also dying for what they believe in in Iraq and Afghanistan too. While it's so easy to just paint them as the bad guys they are also human beings. I think anyone willing to give up his/her life for his/her country is to be admired in some way. Pat Tillman is a hero and its horrible to blame any soldier for these deaths, they are a product of war. Tillman obviously went to war with the risk of death and he that's what makes him a hero: to make the ultimate sacrifice for what he believed in.

[Teenweek]

Hope this works, wanted to debut this here.



http://ourworld.cs.com/CTophe1981/tillman1.jpg

[sr71blackbird]

<p>This is weird.&nbsp; I really feel bad for the guy and his family. <a href="http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061109/ap_on_re_us/inquest_for_a_warrior" target="_blank">Story</a></p>

[CofyCrakCocaine]

<p>It's very upsetting to think he was killed by friendly fire instead of by enemy fire because that makes you wonder what could have been even because this whole thing was a complete fuck-up rather than combat; it shows how easy it is to get yourself blown away, regardless of who it is firing. On the other hand, one has to wonder why this SNAFU happened in the first place...and while I feel anger at the people who killed him, I doubt I could ever really blame them. Adrenaline does alot of crazy things to your thought process.</p>

[dereckfishboy]

<p>&nbsp;</p><strong>CofyCrakCocaine</strong> wrote:<br /><p>It's very upsetting to think he was killed by friendly fire instead of by enemy fire because that makes you wonder what could have been even because this whole thing was a complete fuck-up rather than combat; it shows how easy it is to get yourself blown away, regardless of who it is firing. On the other hand, one has to wonder why this SNAFU happened in the first place...and while I feel anger at the people who killed him, I doubt I could ever really blame them. Adrenaline does alot of crazy things to your thought process.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Most of our soldiers that are killed fighting overseas in this conflict never the people who killed them. A friend of mine told me most of the firefights he was in were over before he knew he was in one. I'm not going to pretend to know what happened or how these soldiers felt when it happened, but I'll wager the confusion they felt could cancel out a young man's training fairly easily. <br /></p>

[CofyCrakCocaine]

Yep. I'm sure this stuff happens more often than the frequency of news reports would indicate. What a damn shame.<br />

[Captain Rooster]

<p>Now, as a former soldier&nbsp; ... and noe a Vet ... all I, we, can do is try and remember the valiant effort Tillman and his brother offered this country. Mistakes happen ... men running around with utomoatic weapons, surrounded by fear will shoot first and ask questions later at times. Sad but true. </p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Pat is my hero. God bless him and the poor men who were responsible for his death. They NEVER would have killed a fellow Ranger ... ugh ... forget it. </p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Remember the Veterans this Friday and Sat (al least). </p>

[CofyCrakCocaine]

<p>I won't pretend to understand any of the experience of being in combat or what it does to you. I know things, and I may hear stories, but I will never understand any of the thoughts that goes on, and unless I get involved in the military someday, I expect I shall never presume to know what goes on in your heart and mind in the heat of such situations. I do fully believe none of our rangers, or any of our servicemen for that matter, would ever rationally blow away one of their own unless they were mistaken to be hostiles, and even then only if they were unaware of their identities- I don't know this for fact, but I believe it to be. It's all just a tragedy, for everyone involved. I should just shut up about it because I simply don't know what the fuck I'm talking about. Rooster I have the utmost respect for men like you. It's an honor to have you doing what you do for our country, and the same goes for every man and woman out there.</p>

[FUNKMAN]

they have to change the term &quot; Friendly Fire &quot;... anything that fucking kills you should not have the word &quot;Friendly&quot; in it...

[Captain Rooster]

<p>Funk, the technical term is fratricide ... I call it The Saddest, Most Tragic Mistake a Soldier Could Ever Make--A scar that will never leave the victim's family or the soul of the shooter and fellow soldier. </p><p>War fucking sucks. </p>

[FUNKMAN]

<strong>Captain Rooster</strong> wrote:<br /><p>Funk, the technical term is fratricide ... <strong><font size="2">I call it The Saddest, Most Tragic Mistake</font></strong> a Soldier Could Ever Make--A scar that will never leave the victim's family or the soul of the shooter and fellow soldier. </p><p>War fucking sucks. </p><p>AGREED!</p>

[Yerdaddy]

April 21, 2007
Army’s Documents Detail Secrecy in Tillman Case (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/21/us/21tillman.html?pagewanted=print)
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

Within hours of Cpl. Pat Tillman’s death, the Army was engaged in an information lockdown. Phone and Internet connections were cut off at a base in Afghanistan. Guards were posted on a wounded platoon mate of his. A captain ordered a noncommissioned officer to burn Corporal Tillman’s uniform.

Army investigative documents reviewed by The Associated Press describe how the military tried to seal off information about Corporal Tillman’s death from all but a few soldiers. Officers quietly passed their suspicion — that he had been killed by American fire — up the chain of command to the highest ranks of the military, but the truth did not reach his family for five weeks.

The clampdown, and misinformation issued by the military, lie at the heart of a growing Congressional investigation. “We want to find out how this happened,” said Representative Henry A. Waxman, the California Democrat who heads the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee, which has scheduled a hearing for Tuesday. “Was it the result of incompetence, miscommunication or a deliberate strategy?”

The issue is also central to punishments that the Army is weighing against nine officers, including four generals, faulted in the latest Pentagon report on the case of Corporal Tillman, the football star turned Ranger fighting in Afghanistan.


What country am I from?

[Tenbatsuzen]

What country am I from?

I hate to say it, but nothing is more American than trying to cover up your fuckups and passing the buck on the blame and problems. It's that way in corporate America; it's no different in the military. Only difference is, peoples' lives are on the line.

[Yerdaddy]

I hate to say it, but nothing is more American than trying to cover up your fuckups and passing the buck on the blame and problems. It's that way in corporate America; it's no different in the military. Only difference is, peoples' lives are on the line.

http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/8830/freeimussigrc7.jpg

I love your sense of irony.

[Tenbatsuzen]

http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/8830/freeimussigrc7.jpg

I love your sense of irony.


I don't follow what you're trying to say. That Imus tried to coverup his own problems and pass the buck? He did no such thing.

[Yerdaddy]

I don't follow what you're trying to say. That Imus tried to coverup his own problems and pass the buck? He did no such thing.

That wouldn't be irony now would it? The irony was that I expressed outrage about high-level Pentagon cover-up of the fratracide of a well-known American soldier fighting in Afghanistan and you brushed it off as "no big deal! Everybody does it." while flying a protest sig defending a crusty old millionaire shock-jock who lost his job for a blatantly racist AND mysogenist slur. The irony is that the Imus "issue" has generated 659 posts in one thread and turned the whole fucking board into a bunch of Yerdaddys ready to storm the White House with pitchforks and torches and the fact that we're losing the War on Terror barely earns a fucking shrug from most of you. The strong likelyhood that this post will probably result in derailing this thread into yet another Imus cry-thread is irony. Despite the fact that I could give two shits whether the piece of shit gets fired or his salary doubled. The fact that I'm the dick simply for not drinking the Koolaid - THAT'S THE IRONY. The fact that if Bush launched an invasion of Iran tomorrow all you people flagellating yourselves over the "Passion of the Imus" will be the first ones to call me a traitor for saying it's a bad idea. That, my friend, is called irony.

Where the fuck is that little bald girl staring at Karl Rove's bald spot and channeling the idea to you people that "there is no war"? I want to kick her fucking teeth out.

[Tenbatsuzen]

That wouldn't be irony now would it? The irony was that I expressed outrage about high-level Pentagon cover-up of the fratracide of a well-known American soldier fighting in Afghanistan and you brushed it off as "no big deal! Everybody does it." while flying a protest sig defending a crusty old millionaire shock-jock who lost his job for a blatantly racist AND mysogenist slur. The irony is that the Imus "issue" has generated 659 posts in one thread and turned the whole fucking board into a bunch of Yerdaddys ready to storm the White House with pitchforks and torches and the fact that we're losing the War on Terror barely earns a fucking shrug from most of you. The strong likelyhood that this post will probably result in derailing this thread into yet another Imus cry-thread is irony. Despite the fact that I could give two shits whether the piece of shit gets fired or his salary doubled. The fact that I'm the dick simply for not drinking the Koolaid - THAT'S THE IRONY. The fact that if Bush launched an invasion of Iran tomorrow all you people flagellating yourselves over the "Passion of the Imus" will be the first ones to call me a traitor for saying it's a bad idea. That, my friend, is called irony.

Where the fuck is that little bald girl staring at Karl Rove's bald spot and channeling the idea to you people that "there is no war"? I want to kick her fucking teeth out.

What are you talking about? Have you ever worked in an office? People cover up their fuckups all the time. The very fact that the coverup of the friendly fire death of America's most famous special forces soldier shouldn't be shocking nor surprising. Hence why I said "people's lives are on the line". I wasn't disagreeing with you, so stop with the self-immolation.

I never mentioned Imus in this thread. I was simply explaining to you that the fact that people tried to cover their own asses shouldn't shock nor surprise you, especially given the current leader of the administration and his cronies.

YOU made this a thread about Imus. YOU called this out. Here's a claw hammer, pull the fucking nails out of your hands and feet, dude.

[Gvac]

The fact that a bunch of radio fanatics who habitually post on a radio message board are concerned about the issue of free speech on the radio is ironic to you, Yerdaddy?

I don't understand what you're trying to say.

[Gvac]

And just because Tillman was in the NFL doesn't mean this thread belongs in the "Games And Sports" forum.

It should be moved.

[boeman]

And just because Tillman was in the NFL doesn't mean this thread belongs in the "Games And Sports" forum.

It should be moved.


It only took you 3 years to notice this... :wink:

[Yerdaddy]

I think Tillman deserves better than a 3 page thread about how he honored us and how that honor was tarnished by his superiors and by us. I'll take this spat to PMs and I suggest any further mention of it be taken somewhere other than this thread.

[Yerdaddy]

Tillman's brother blasts military (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070424/ap_on_go_co/tillman_friendly_fire)

WASHINGTON - Pat Tillman's brother accused the military Tuesday of "intentional falsehoods" and "deliberate and careful misrepresentations" in portraying the football star's death in Afghanistan as the result of heroic engagement with the enemy instead of friendly fire.

"We believe this narrative was intended to deceive the family but more importantly the American public," Kevin Tillman told a House Government Reform and Oversight Committee hearing. "Pat's death was clearly the result of fratricide," he said.

"Revealing that Pat's death was a fratricide would have been yet another political disaster in a month of political disasters ... so the truth needed to be suppressed," said Tillman, who was in a convoy behind his brother when the incident happened three years ago but didn't see it.

The committee's chairman, Rep. Henry Waxman (news, bio, voting record), D-Calif., accused the government of inventing "sensational details and stories" about Pat Tillman's death and the 2003 rescue of Jessica Lynch, perhaps the most famous victims of the Afghanistan and Iraq wars.

Lynch, then an Army private, was badly injured when her convoy was ambushed in Iraq. She was subsequently rescued by American troops from an Iraqi hospital but the tale of her ambush was changed into a story of heroism on her part.

Still hampered by her injuries, Lynch walked slowly to the witness table and took a seat alongside Tillman's family members.

"The bottom line is the American people are capable of determining their own ideals of heroes and they don't need to be told elaborate tales," Lynch said.

Kevin Tillman said his family has sought for years to get at the truth about Pat Tillman's death, and have now concluded that they were "being actively thwarted by powers that are more interested in protecting a narrative than getting at the truth and seeing justice is served."

Rep. Elijah Cummings (news, bio, voting record), D-Md., questioned how high up the chain of command the information about Tillman's friendly fire death went, and whether anyone in the White House knew before Tillman's family.

Pat Tillman's mother, Mary Tillman, said she believed former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld must have known. "The fact that he would have died by friendly fire and no one told Rumsfeld is ludicrous," she said.

[Tenbatsuzen]

I think Tillman deserves better than a 3 page thread about how he honored us and how that honor was tarnished by his superiors and by us. I'll take this spat to PMs and I suggest any further mention of it be taken somewhere other than this thread.

Yeah, it's called having your number retired by your pro team and your college team, plus a memorial outside of both stadiums, plus a park in front of the pro stadium.

And putting a face to the idea of "the ultimate sacrifice".

[Yerdaddy]

Yeah, it's called having your number retired by your pro team and your college team, plus a memorial outside of both stadiums, plus a park in front of the pro stadium.

And putting a face to the idea of "the ultimate sacrifice".

Yeah and that makes up for the fact that he has now become a symbol for both heroic sacrifice AND government and military corruption. His family doesn't seem to be satisfied with memorials, why are you? Why is it that every post out of you in this thread is meant to downplay the the disgrace that the military has brought on Tillman, the military itself and on the country? Every post you've posted here can be summarized as "it's no big deal" and "shut up already". Which is why I said he deserves more than a three page thread - because you, who are now saying "no big deal" about the government lying to the public and Tillman's family for political reasons, have been bleeding outrage out of your ass about fired shock-jocks and Nifong but you take the opposite position on Pat Tillman. Tell me why you want this story to go away?

[Tenbatsuzen]

Yeah and that makes up for the fact that he has now become a symbol for both heroic sacrifice AND government and military corruption. His family doesn't seem to be satisfied with memorials, why are you? Why is it that every post out of you in this thread is meant to downplay the the disgrace that the military has brought on Tillman, the military itself and on the country? Every post you've posted here can be summarized as "it's no big deal" and "shut up already". Which is why I said he deserves more than a three page thread - because you, who are now saying "no big deal" about the government lying to the public and Tillman's family for political reasons, have been bleeding outrage out of your ass about fired shock-jocks and Nifong but you take the opposite position on Pat Tillman. Tell me why you want this story to go away?

Newsflash: the entire administration is corrupt and has screwed up royally over and over again since mid-2002. Remember the days when Bush was just seen as a mumbling idiot and Trey and Matt made a wacky sitcom about him on Comedy Central? I do.

I never said I want this story to go away. It's a tragedy, as I've explained to you in PM. But here's the problem: You are placing more importance on Pat Tillman's life than any other soldier who has given their life over there. It is a tragedy and a damn shame that Pat gave his life. But his family was well-taken care of, when you combine an NFL pension with death benefits from the government etc. etc. If you want to remember every single person who died tragically in Iraq and Afghanistan with threads, we'd break the board. I'm aware we've lost 3000+ people. But I feel for people who died, leaving behind a family. I feel for people like Ty Ziegel (http://www.worldpressphoto.org/index.php?option=com_photogallery&task=view&id=875&Itemid=146&bandwidth=high]?rss), who have to live out the rest of their life constantly remembering the war.

I'm not upset about the coverups and garbage in this situation. I'm more concerned about the coverups and garbage we're NOT hearing about.

[Yerdaddy]

That is a complete bullshit post and you know it. You are still obfuscating for your own reasons - and, I believe, for the same reasons the Pentagon lied to the public about it in the first place.

The fact that Tillman was, like thousands of other soldiers, killed is clearly not the issue here. Whether the family have recieved financial compensation for his death is also obviously not the issue here. Even the fact that he was killed in a "friendly fire" incident is not the issue.

This story of Pat Tillman is unique and everyone reading this thread can tell you what is different about it and why it is, at this point and time, newsworthy and why this discussion is significant.

Now I can explain it to you again, like I did in PMs, but I'm sure you'd distort my words again and spin the story away from the issues the family is trying to address by testifying before COngress. So I'll leave our little spat at this:

You can either explain why this story is or is not unique and important or you can leave the rest of the board with the knowledge that you are guilty of distorting the story of Pat Tillman for your own poltical purposes just like the military did. Any rational and half-way objective person already knows the answer to this question. So my challenge is to see if you have the decency just to aknowledge the wrong that has been done, or if you'll continue to distort?

[Tenbatsuzen]

That is a complete bullshit post and you know it. You are still obfuscating for your own reasons - and, I believe, for the same reasons the Pentagon lied to the public about it in the first place.

The fact that Tillman was, like thousands of other soldiers, killed is clearly not the issue here. Whether the family have recieved financial compensation for his death is also obviously not the issue here. Even the fact that he was killed in a "friendly fire" incident is not the issue.

This story of Pat Tillman is unique and everyone reading this thread can tell you what is different about it and why it is, at this point and time, newsworthy and why this discussion is significant.

Now I can explain it to you again, like I did in PMs, but I'm sure you'd distort my words again and spin the story away from the issues the family is trying to address by testifying before COngress. So I'll leave our little spat at this:

You can either explain why this story is or is not unique and important or you can leave the rest of the board with the knowledge that you are guilty of distorting the story of Pat Tillman for your own poltical purposes just like the military did. Any rational and half-way objective person already knows the answer to this question. So my challenge is to see if you have the decency just to aknowledge the wrong that has been done, or if you'll continue to distort?

Mind explaining to me what I'm distorting? What political game am I playing? What I'm saying is, for every Pat Tillman, I am concerned about Lance Corporal Roscoe Suarez from Talladega, Alabama, who was killed in friendly fire, the incident was covered up, and we're not hearing a peep.

Tillman's coverup got out because he was FAMOUS.

I'm disgusted with the government, but I'm not surprised that they covered it up. What I am concerned about is the people who die in incidents like this and we don't hear about it because they aren't famous.

Funny how you turned this into an Imus thing, got called out, proven wrong, and are trying to spin it with your typical long-winded sanctimonious cockrambles to try and make you look smart and important, when you're missing the big picture that I'M FUCKING AGREEING WITH A LARGE BASIS OF YOUR STATEMENT, DUMMY.

[Tenbatsuzen]

And Pat, it's really, REALLY bad form to call someone who has a well-formed opinion that differers than yours a "bullshit post", and then accuse them of having some maniacal political agenda that is pro-war and pro-government.

[Yerdaddy]

Mind explaining to me what I'm distorting? What political game am I playing? What I'm saying is, for every Pat Tillman, I am concerned about Lance Corporal Roscoe Suarez from Talladega, Alabama, who was killed in friendly fire, the incident was covered up, and we're not hearing a peep.

Tillman's coverup got out because he was FAMOUS.

I'm disgusted with the government, but I'm not surprised that they covered it up. What I am concerned about is the people who die in incidents like this and we don't hear about it because they aren't famous.

Funny how you turned this into an Imus thing, got called out, proven wrong, and are trying to spin it with your typical long-winded sanctimonious cockrambles to try and make you look smart and important, when you're missing the big picture that I'M FUCKING AGREEING WITH A LARGE BASIS OF YOUR STATEMENT, DUMMY.

OK then. People reading this can now see for themselves what you said and what I said and judge for themselves what the issues in the Pat Tillman story are and see which one of us is addressing them and which one is avoiding them. I'm not calling you out on anything; I'm letting your posts speak for themselves.

I will continue to follow the story because I think it is important and represents a number of problems we Americans need to address now and in the future. I'll ask you not to dog me in this thread and make it about you and me anymore, or to keep pushing your point that this is a simple story of a single soldier killed in battle and that all the other issues should be ignored. That is patently bullshit and I'm not going to pull punches anymore.

Also, my name isn't Pat.

[A.J.]

Also, my name isn't Pat.

"It's Shirley."

http://www.affordablehousinginstitute.org/blogs/us/Airplane_nielsen_rumack_small.jpg

[Yerdaddy]

But there are some who call me... Tim.

http://neuroticchild.tripod.com/monty_python/tim.jpg

[cupcakelove]

But there are some who call me... Tim.

http://neuroticchild.tripod.com/monty_python/tim.jpg

I miss Tripod Tim.

[Tenbatsuzen]

I apologize, I thought your name was Pat.

[cupcakelove]

I apologize, I thought your name was Pat.

His name isn't the biggest mystery.

http://www.michaeldimarco.com/UserFiles/Image/sweeney_pat.jpg