OFFICIAL 2004 ELECTION DAY THREAD [Archive] - Page 2?login=1

JPMNICK

11-03-2004, 06:03 AM

Curtoid, love the subtitle.

No matter who wins, people are going to be enraged.

It will SEEM worse to all of us in the North East if bush wins because of how pro-democratic our area is. People like ron and fez who are Kerry supporters as well as friends and family will most likely be pissed about this. I am sure if you were in the middle of all those red states, a different song would be sung.

anyway I am glad it is finally over, and I hope in the next four years (regardless of who wins) someone says something to people like Puff Daddy and the celebs to keep their mouths shut. They really drive me insance. Its cool to have a prefrence, and if asked talk about it for a few seconds, but there is no need tot ry and force yoru views on everyone and tell them if they do no make this choice they are basically idiots and are going to hell.

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Thanks to Monsterone for my first sig.

This message was edited by JPMNICK on 11-3-04 @ 10:14 AM

Doctor Manhattan

11-03-2004, 06:18 AM

If Bush wins this time, it's not Bush cheating. I don't think Bush really cheated in 2000. Katherine Harris and Jeb Bush took advantage of the close election of 2000. It's not totally clear if they "cheated" but it looks like it.

If Bush serves 4 more years, it's because of the voters(Electoral and Popular). And we'll just have to see how W tries to turns things around with no pressure of re-election on his shoulders. I'll support Bush as my President if he wins, but will always question stupid choices made by either Kerry or Bush.

Sure, you get a $300 check (borrowing your Tax return early) but is it worth a few thousand soldier's lives?

The number of Soldiers killed in iraq past 1120 now (http://icasualties.org/oif/BY_DOD.aspx)

I understand he went into Iraq becuase of the mistaken intel he recieved, but he also said he would have still gone into Iraq knowing what he knows now.

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This message was edited by SKW on 11-3-04 @ 10:22 AM

FMJeff

11-03-2004, 06:27 AM

In a country that shuns liberals as anti-patriotic hippies, that bans gay marraiges and denies them even civil unions, that can elect senators who would deny a woman all her rights to an abortion, and to elect another who said his opponent looked like a terrorist, what is the point? It's obvious the "moral majority" of this country rules this country... the united states has returned to the biblical conservatism rampant during its religious persecution/witch burning days, only today is gays, muslims, and unwanted pregnant mothers who have become proverbially burnt...

in a country built on freedom and independence and respect for all life to deny gay people even the rights of a civil union makes me want to vomit on this country...absolutely disgraceful...

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It made my heart sing.

Tenbatsuzen

11-03-2004, 06:33 AM

Tall_James

11-03-2004, 06:35 AM

I'm outtahere. Cheers!

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[center]"Freakshow Makes...Tall James Takes"

Reephdweller

11-03-2004, 06:38 AM

in a country built on freedom and independence and respect for all life to deny gay people even the rights of a civil union makes me want to vomit on this country...absolutely disgraceful...

Keep in mind, on this issue John Kerry was also against it. From a personal standpoint I don't have an issue with it. I also don't have a problem with a woman's right to choose. I think that in this election it will come down to mostly the fact that more people felt Bush would be better at protecting us against foreign threats and that they were willing to let his failures on most domestic issues like the economy slide.

On these issues I think people need to grow up and accept the fact that we're in a new age where these are the realities of life. I also support stem cell research. So for all these issues I have a moderate viewpoint. I think most people do, they just felt that as far as security goes that Bush was better overall. It also comes down to the fact that people know what they're getting with Bush. We don't with Kerry and that might have made the difference.

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Reephdweller

11-03-2004, 06:41 AM

I voted for Bush the same way my girlfriend voted for Kerry - with disgust, and not wanting to do it, but we had to follow what our core beliefs were.

All the Democrats had to do was offer up something - ANYTHING - that was better than Kerry, and they would have mopped this election up.

This is pretty much how I felt. I've been less than happy with a lot of the things that Bush has done. I questioned a lot of his moves and I could honestly say that if someone better and more appealing had come along whether democrat, republican or independant I would have have voted for them. The democrats blew it plain and simple.

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HBox

11-03-2004, 06:42 AM

I just hope that Bush realizes that, despite this pretty decisive win, he is still the President of the 48% of people who didn't vote for him, and that's a lot of fucking people. Of course, he didn't care when most of the people didn't vote for him so I'm pretty fucking scared. And I'd like to echo what ADF said:

Bush winning the popular and electoral vote speaks of an American mindset that I don't agree with in the slightest.

My thoughts exactly. And now something for the conspiracy theorists: We can all agree that it looked like from both our own experiences going to the polls and all those long lines on TV that turnout was way up. Yet, looking at the popular vote totals the turnout wasn't up at all; it just went up in line with population growth, and nothing more. That doesn't seem right......

EDIT: Oh yeah, and apparently everyone hates gays.

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This message was edited by HBox on 11-3-04 @ 10:43 AM

angrymissy

11-03-2004, 06:44 AM

Keep in mind, on this issue John Kerry was also against it

John Kerry was against calling it "marriage" but for civil unions.

These laws were all passed in favor of NO rights for gays wishing to be in a civil union. They'll get no rights from the state, their relationship will not be recognized.

This country seriously makes me want to vomit. I feel like were taking a step 30 years back... Can't wait until they force prayer in school.

If we get attacked again and need help from the rest of the world, we're totally fucked. This just solidifies the rest of the world's hatred of us.

 <img src="http://thereisnogod.faithweb.com/images/missy2.gif" width="300" height="100" border="1">

FMJeff

11-03-2004, 06:44 AM

absolutely disgraceful...

No, Jeff. What's absolutely disgraceful, and I thought this since day 1, is that with all the problems that the Bush presidency has had, and even with my views, the Democratic party absolutely screwed the pooch by giving the People John Kerry.

I voted for Bush the same way my girlfriend voted for Kerry - with disgust, and not wanting to do it, but we had to follow what our core beliefs were.

All the Democrats had to do was offer up something - ANYTHING - that was better than Kerry, and they would have mopped this election up.

i don't think so man...this country has grown increasingly more conservative on every possible issue over the years...how you can still elect a senator like Jim Bunning or Jim Dement with full knowledge of the fact that they are extreme right nutjobs....no this country is following a trend...a return to the word of jesus christ in its response to muslim attacks and it will continue to go in that direction...

i only hope i fucking die before it gets unbearable to live...

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It made my heart sing.

silera

11-03-2004, 06:45 AM

All the Democrats had to do was offer up something - ANYTHING - that was better than Kerry, and they would have mopped this election up.

Actually, all they had to do was offer someone better than Bush.

I'm more concerned that after the 4 years Bush has shown us, people still wanted more of him.

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Reephdweller

11-03-2004, 06:48 AM

John Kerry was against calling it "marriage" but for civil unions.

You're right. However one of the most hypocritical things to me about Kerry was that when people on talk shows would say directly to him or one of his campaign press people that he was against gay marriage I didn't really see a lot of them trying to deny it or even clarify his position on it. I watched pretty carefully how he danced around the issue and to me it's sad that he was this way. Because if he really was in favor of it I think he should have stood up for his beliefs.

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This message was edited by Reefdweller on 11-3-04 @ 10:49 AM

angrymissy

11-03-2004, 06:50 AM

It really fucking disgusts me that the head of Diebold, the company handling the e-voting, campaigns to raise money for the republician party, and "promised to deliver the votes in ohio" to Bush.

WHAT THE FUCK? Why are these people the ones in charge of electronic voting.

 <img src="http://thereisnogod.faithweb.com/images/missy2.gif" width="300" height="100" border="1">

JPMNICK

11-03-2004, 06:56 AM

regardless of what he said (Pres. of Diebold), I am positive that there was no vote rigging on his part. those systems are checked for those types of things. He was just stating his opinion on who he wanted to win

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Thanks to Monsterone for my first sig.

angrymissy

11-03-2004, 06:57 AM

Because if he really was in favor of it I think he should have stood up for his beliefs.

I think he made it pretty clear during the debates that he was in favor of gays being offered a civil union with rights.

I believe that because we are the United States of America, we're a country with a great, unbelievable Constitution, with rights that we afford people, that you can't discriminate in the workplace. You can't discriminate in the rights that you afford people.

You can't disallow someone the right to visit their partner in a hospital. You have to allow people to transfer property, which is why I'm for partnership rights and so forth.

 <img src="http://thereisnogod.faithweb.com/images/missy2.gif" width="300" height="100" border="1">

silera

11-03-2004, 06:57 AM

The democrats blew it plain and simple.

America blew it.

I am sad and saddened that this vote came down to whether or not some rednecks that fuck their cousins are ok with two faggots getting hitched.

The election isn't a fucking football game. Four years ago, after going through most of my adult life with Clinton, I didn't think that the president made much of a difference.

Four years later, I am dead certain that the President does. This president has done a bang up job of anally raping his country in a combined frenzied of an ill conceived foreign policy and fiscally, constitutionally, and environmentally irresponsible domestic agenda.

If we do not hold our leaders responsible for their actions, we have failed.

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FMJeff

11-03-2004, 07:01 AM

Ndugu

11-03-2004, 07:02 AM

the majority of the people dont want gay marriage, we know this for a fact now, unbearable to live, are you fucking kidding me, because gay people cant get married, you people still have your cell phones, your jobs, your right to go on message boards and anonymously voice your opinion, your right to paint a swastica on the american flag, the right to call the president a murderer, and even wish death upon him, unbearable to live? take a look at the world people, you have it pretty fucking good here

"What are you liberals, on dope?"

silera

11-03-2004, 07:03 AM

I watched pretty carefully how he danced around the issue and to me it's sad that he was this way. Because if he really was in favor of it I think he should have stood up for his beliefs.

So that George Bush could reinforce to all the bible belt that John Kerry was a homo loving commie fetus eater.

You'd rather vote for someone that disagrees with your position on social issues just because they are clear on the fact. Abortion, no. Gay marriage, no. Church State separation, no. Evolution, no. Global warming, no. Oil independancy, no.

$400 rebate, Bush GOOD.

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JPMNICK

11-03-2004, 07:04 AM

America blew it.

I am sad and saddened that this vote came down to whether or not some rednecks that fuck their cousins are ok with two faggots getting hitched.

Stereo-Typing like this (well, not EXACTLY like this) is what is keeping the Dems from making inroads in the Red States, Those people feel that the Dems do nto take them seriously.

Most people would be quick to snap judge the Red States like Silera has. And I am sure there are plenty of them who would in turn stereo type us. But In order to win an election, you need to get everyone on baord with you AND your platform. this has not been happening and the republics are continuing their stronghold on the midwest.

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Thanks to Monsterone for my first sig.

This message was edited by JPMNICK on 11-3-04 @ 11:05 AM

FMJeff

11-03-2004, 07:06 AM

because if he really was in favor of it I think he should have stood up for his beliefs.

no candidate will ever get elected in this country if he supports homosexuals...that's just an embarassing and disgusting truth about the level of close-mindedness of the people of this country...

ugh i cant take it, i just want to barf...

<center><img src="http://thereisnogod.faithweb.com/images/fmjeff.gif">
 
It made my heart sing.

Reephdweller

11-03-2004, 07:07 AM

Missy, you're probably right, I missed one of the debates so I could've not heard him say that.

Silera, I totally understand the disgust that you and Jeff and others feel about this. I think that at the end of the day FEAR will ultimately be the main factor in why this country voted the way it did. Granted I did vote for Bush, though it was mainly for the reasons I've listed in this thread and previously. By and large there is a significant portion of the voting public who doesn't take even ten minutes to digest the candidates and their positions. As much as people may have criticized me for making fun of Kerry's appearance it was mostly to demonstrate the idiocy of people today. Today people vote on a candidates looks, on fear, on everything but actually taking the time to look at the facts and the figures. It's wrong and I wish people took their vote more seriously.

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silera

11-03-2004, 07:08 AM

because gay people cant get married

That's not the issue. The problem is that it was turned into an issue. To be divisive, to misconstrue, to turn out the religious right vote, and that it actually was able to make all the legitimate issues take the back seat is disgusting.

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Tazz

11-03-2004, 07:11 AM

You'd rather vote for someone that disagrees with your position on social issues just because they are clear on the fact.

In a word, yes. I may disagree with Bush on most social issues, but at least he says what he means. I would have considered voting for a Democrat that didn't speak in vague terms and tip toe around issues. But Kerry did exactly that.

<img src=http://tazz1376.homestead.com/files/homersig.gif>

HBox

11-03-2004, 07:11 AM

Kerry just conceded. It's over, for real.

http://www.myimgs.com/random/hbox/sig

silera

11-03-2004, 07:13 AM

Most people would be quick to snap judge the Red States like Silera has.

No. You misread my sentence. I said rednecks and faggots in the same sentence. I said it to point out how stupid the issue was because this election wasn't about gay marriage to me.

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LordJezo

11-03-2004, 07:13 AM

Kerry calls Bush (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&e=1&u=/ap/20041103/ap_on_el_pr/eln_election_rdp)

------------------------
I KISS YOU!

badorties

11-03-2004, 07:15 AM

ugh ...

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angrymissy

11-03-2004, 07:15 AM

I can't wait till Bush gets to appoint a new Supreme Court Justice who will sit for 20+ years and keep fucking us long after Bush is gone.

 <img src="http://thereisnogod.faithweb.com/images/missy2.gif" width="300" height="100" border="1">

silera

11-03-2004, 07:17 AM

In a word, yes. I may disagree with Bush on most social issues, but at least he says what he means. I would have considered voting for a Democrat that didn't speak in vague terms and tip toe around issues. But Kerry did exactly that.

That doesn't make any sense.

At all.

If you ask me if the sky is blue, and I say yes but sometimes it's cloudy, or nightime, or reddish, I'd be overanalyzing and possibly trying to cover all the bases.

If you ask me if the sky is blue and I say, no silly it's Green, GreEN, GREEN, GREEEEEEEEEEEEEN, I'd be stupid, insane or a liar.

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This message was edited by silera on 11-3-04 @ 11:18 AM

42nd-delay

11-03-2004, 07:18 AM

Based on the fact that the GOP picked up seats in the Senate and House, I think it's obvious that the cards were stacked against any Democrat. What would have worked? A more liberal candidate in a country that slides ever more towards evangelicalsim and conservatism? A more conservative candidate that wouldn't have been different from Bush?

I'm more upset about the way this country is changing more than anything else, cause it seems like there's no hope if things continue this way.

------------------------------
"42nd-delay is the only person who's making sense." - Ron, 3-12-02

badorties

11-03-2004, 07:24 AM

I can't wait till Bush gets to appoint a new Supreme Court Justice who will sit for 20+ years and keep fucking us long after Bush is gone.

i'm more looking forward to thomas being chief justice for the next few generations ...

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JPMNICK

11-03-2004, 07:24 AM

Silera you are right i did misread yoru comment. Sorry about that. But what i said after i still think is true, that them Dems do not give enough attention or respect to the midwest.

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Thanks to Monsterone for my first sig.

LordJezo

11-03-2004, 07:24 AM

4 MORE YEARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

------------------------
I KISS YOU!

LordJezo

11-03-2004, 07:24 AM

4 MORE YEARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

------------------------
I KISS YOU!

SatCam

11-03-2004, 07:26 AM

Why does MSNBC say "Kerry calls president to concede after hard-fought election" and then the actual story says that he hasn't????

Although I am frustrated that there are "No"s across the board on the issue of Gay Marrige/Unions, giving the decision to the state was John Kerry's idea, and thats what was done.

Daschle down was a shot in the heart. They got the minority leader/former majority leader OUT of the senate. Crazy.

0%
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FUCK YOU OHIO!

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JPMNICK

11-03-2004, 07:26 AM

BTW, just because Kerry concedes does that really mean anything? I mean the votes still need to be counted and the Electoral College still needs to vote based on the state votes.

http://home.comcast.net/~nickcontardo/a_schilling_ft1.jpg
Thanks to Monsterone for my first sig.

SatCam

11-03-2004, 07:28 AM

I don't think conceeding has any legal value, but it does give the media the right of way in saying "Bush wins".

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Iamnotatool

11-03-2004, 07:30 AM

Nader in a landslide

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Reephdweller

11-03-2004, 07:31 AM

JP, his conceding doesn't mean that Bush has won, though I'm sure that somewhere along the line he caught returns from other states or heard more about the situation in Ohio probably being bleak so he decided to concede. However technically it is not over until one the candidates has at least 270 electoral votes.

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TheMojoPin

11-03-2004, 07:35 AM

NADER UBER ALLES!

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Se7en

11-03-2004, 07:40 AM

Kerry has just conceded to Bush.

For those of you who are somehow still hoping for a miracle for Kerry in Ohio - please, it's over. Kerry would have to have virtually ALL of the provisional ballots cast his way, which is almost statitically impossible.

The final electoral vote will be something like 286 Bush, 252 Kerry.

The popular vote is around 51% Bush, 48% Kerry. And it should be noted, that Bush has set the record for the most popular votes ever won by any candidate (higher even than Reagan in the 80s). He also won a majority of the nation's votes, something that the beloved Bill Clinton could not accomplish.

It's a decisive victory, made all the more spectacular by the huge gains by Republicans in both houses of Congress, including scoring a major political (and in many cases, personal) victory over Tom Daschle. [Are you "saddened and dismayed" by your loss, Tom?]

How must this feel to the Democrats! I mean, after all that's happened - the massive campaigns to register new voters, the ridiculous "Vote or Die" nonsense, the 527s, George Soros burning money like it's going out of style paying for ads in battlegrounds states, Michael Moore's opus of hate "Fahrenheit 9/11"......and NONE of it made a difference. If anything, it only shifted things FURTHER to Bush. Mission quite truly accomplished.

It's time for the Democrats to step back and consider that, quite possibly, they no longer represent the beliefs and values of America.

Kudos to John Kerry, though - his concession does spare his party the sure death it would have received had he dragged this through the courts for a month.

It's finally over. Thank god we don't have to deal with this bullshit until four years down the road.

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LordJezo

11-03-2004, 07:41 AM

HBox

11-03-2004, 07:43 AM

All I can say is that I hope you people are right.

http://www.myimgs.com/random/hbox/sig

silera

11-03-2004, 07:44 AM

I just hope that Bush realizes that, despite this pretty decisive win, he is still the President of the 48% of people who didn't vote for him, and that's a lot of fucking people.

After the last four years of diviseness, a campaign that catered specifically to the religious right and neo-cons, and knowing that he doesn't have to run again, I'm pretty sure that not only won't Bush care about what the world thinks of America, he won't care about what 48% America think of America.

Shit, Bush spent the better part of the last two months TRASHING Massachussets. Paul Revere, Boston Tea Party, Plymoth Rock, founding fathers, all negated by the fact that it turns blue every election. Meanwhile, CA, MA, NY and the blue states can continue to send the Federal Government taxes only to get less than 80% back on every dollar to subsidize the red states.

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angrymissy

11-03-2004, 07:44 AM

silera

11-03-2004, 07:46 AM

It's finally over. Thank god we don't have to deal with this bullshit until four years down the road.

Fuck the two party system!

I say George Bush selects our next president!

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badorties

11-03-2004, 07:47 AM

I wonder how all of Hollywood and all the rest of the "stars" that were hardcore rooting for Kerry and out in the media every day saying how we need Kerry and how Kerry needs to win are feeling right now..

i would assume they're just as disappointed as the other 55,067,592 that didn't vote for bush ...

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TheMojoPin

11-03-2004, 07:48 AM

I wonder how all of Hollywood and all the rest of the "stars" that were hardcore rooting for Kerry and out in the media every day saying how we need Kerry and how Kerry needs to win are feeling right now..

Wonder what R&F will have to say about it all.

------------------------
I KISS YOU!

I don't understand this mentality at all.

They supported who they wanted to support. They just have more money and resources to make it known who they support. How many people do you know around you keep their political views completely secret? It's what people talk about! They just have the means to talk to MANY MORE people about it...and what's this notion of that the celebrities somehow lost "more" than any other Democratic voter? Christ, get over yourselves, people...they don't get punished now for supporting someone who lost.

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42nd-delay

11-03-2004, 07:51 AM

It's time for the Democrats to step back and consider that, quite possibly, they no longer represent the beliefs and values of America.

If that's true, it's quite scary, since the values of America seem to consist of:

allegiance to leader who thrives on deception, secrecy and fear;

reckless economic policies and a lack of fiscal restraint;

a desire to write discrimination into the law;

a clear misconception of the the facts surrounding the war in Iraq;

a dangerous misunderstanding of the war on terror, including underfunding efforts to stop nuclear proliferation and protect chemical/nuclear plants;

a lack of concern about the environment;

disdain towards finding common ground with the rest of world;

eroding the seperation of church and state;

... plus the rest I'm forgetting.

------------------------------
"42nd-delay is the only person who's making sense." - Ron, 3-12-02

This message was edited by 42nd-delay on 11-3-04 @ 11:55 AM

FUNKMAN

11-03-2004, 07:53 AM

How must this feel to the Democrats! I mean, after all that's happened - the massive campaigns to register new voters, the ridiculous "Vote or Die" nonsense, the 527s, George Soros burning money like it's going out of style paying for ads in battlegrounds states, Michael Moore's opus of hate "Fahrenheit 9/11"......and NONE of it made a difference. If anything, it only shifted things FURTHER to Bush. Mission quite truly accomplished.

i respect your opinion but i would have to differ

my opinion is as i stated earlier the most impact on people voting for Bush was "people are afraid", they're afraid of terrorism and another attack and they feel Bush is the best guy to fight terrorism
they read of the bombings, kidnappings and beheadings in Iraq almost on a daily basis

(imho) this means the terrorists actually won the election

if you believe that most americans are better off than they were 4 years ago then i would just have to differ

<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/SatCam/sig_funkmanstill.jpg">

Se7en

11-03-2004, 07:53 AM

And it should be noted, that Bush has set the record for the most popular votes ever won by any candidate (higher even than Reagan in the 80s).

Everyone keeps saying this, yet failing to notice that the american population is HIGHER than ever before. So of course, each election, one of the candidates could get the highest number of votes ever.

If that factoid doesn't impess you, the fact that he won a majority - again, something Clinton could NOT do - should.

Most were predicting Kerry would win the PV, but it's turned out he got quite trounced in it. Losing by over 3.5 million votes.

Which brings me up to something discussed a few weeks back - for all of you out there who took the position that the PV should be the deciding factor in who is President, do you still have that p.o.v., now that Bush has SOLIDLY won the PV?

<center><img border="0" src="http://se7enrfnet.homestead.com/files/7_sig.gif" width="300" height="100">
 
 
Don't blame me....I voted for Kodos.
I look forward to an orderly election that will eliminate the need for a violent bloodbath. </center>

Se7en

11-03-2004, 07:59 AM

Fuck the two party system!

I say George Bush selects our next president!

http://www.pete-online.us/Images/WhinersLosers.jpg

I've also got some nice cheese to go with your w(h)ine.

<center><img border="0" src="http://se7enrfnet.homestead.com/files/7_sig.gif" width="300" height="100">
 
 
Don't blame me....I voted for Kodos.
I look forward to an orderly election that will eliminate the need for a violent bloodbath. </center>

angrymissy

11-03-2004, 07:59 AM

If that factoid doesn't impess you, the fact that he won a majority - again, something Clinton could NOT do - should.

I don't really consider 51% a real majority, but thats my opinion. 48% of the country voted against him.

 <img src="http://thereisnogod.faithweb.com/images/missy2.gif" width="300" height="100" border="1">

silera

11-03-2004, 08:01 AM

Which brings me up to something discussed a few weeks back - for all of you out there who took the position that the PV should be the deciding factor in who is President, do you still have that p.o.v., now that Bush has SOLIDLY won the PV?

I think that a popular vote would ensure that more would participate, and that the leadership of this country would benefit by truly reflecting what the citizens want.

The popular vote is not a Democratic or Republican perk. Had there been a popular vote this time, who knows how many more people would turn out?

I didn't vote because I knew New York was for Kerry. I'm sure many republicans in New York didn't vote for the same reason.

<center>http://hometown.aol.com/bonedaddy5/images/silerass.jpg
AND WHAT?</center>

TheMojoPin

11-03-2004, 08:02 AM

Which brings me up to something discussed a few weeks back - for all of you out there who took the position that the PV should be the deciding factor in who is President, do you still have that p.o.v., now that Bush has SOLIDLY won the PV?

Very much so, and I'd be shocked and dismayed if you didn't as well.

Last night made it very clear there were MANY ways for Bush to lose the office of the president because of the electoral vote system, despite winning the popular vote by several MILLION votes.

Just because your guy won, it should be glaringly obvious how faulty this system is. By electoral voting standards, this is a close election...whereas by the popular vote standard, Bush won by MORE THAN THREE MILLION VOTES. Doesn't that concern you just a LITTLE bit? Or do you need the system to actually fuck your side over before you decides it bugs you?

<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=TheMojoPin">
1979 <> "You can tell some lies about the good times we've had, but I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

HBox

11-03-2004, 08:02 AM

Which brings me up to something discussed a few weeks back - for all of you out there who took the position that the PV should be the deciding factor in who is President, do you still have that p.o.v., now that Bush has SOLIDLY won the PV?

I said he won decisively because of that, and if Kerry did somehow win Ohio legitimately, I still would have acknowledged that Bush should have been the rightful President, IMO.

But you need to stop pulling this stuff out of your ass. Most of the pre-election predictions that had Kerry winning said that bush would likely win the popular vote. I didn't read one prediction that predicted the opposite.

BTW, I was almost hoping that kerry won without taking the popular vote, if only to have a bunch of new supporters on my side, most of whom can get shit done, unlike these spineless Democrats.

http://www.myimgs.com/random/hbox/sig

TheMojoPin

11-03-2004, 08:04 AM

If that factoid doesn't impess you, the fact that he won a majority - again, something Clinton could NOT do - should.

I don't really consider 51% a real majority, but thats my opinion. 48% of the country voted against him.

48% of the VOTERS is a far cry from 48% of the COUNTRY.

Just FYI.

<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=TheMojoPin">
1979 <> "You can tell some lies about the good times we've had, but I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

Hottub

11-03-2004, 08:04 AM

4 more years... (http://dailynews.att.net/cgi-bin/news?e=pub&dt=041103&cat=news&st=newsd864ge6g0&src=ap)

<img src="http://artemis.gamedaemons.net/hottub.gif" border=0 align=right>

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LordJezo

11-03-2004, 08:04 AM

Dems lost in the house, dems lost in the senate, dems lost governers, dems lost in gay marriage..

This rocks so much!

------------------------
I KISS YOU!

silera

11-03-2004, 08:05 AM

Seven, at no point have I whined regarding the Bush win. At no point have I stated any question regarding his legitimacy as the winner.

My problems with this election are what it reflects on us as a nation.

However, you are free to dismiss anything of substance I have said, and quote a comment made facetiously. It's easier than addressing any real issues.

<center>http://hometown.aol.com/bonedaddy5/images/silerass.jpg
AND WHAT?</center>

saveopieanthony.net

11-03-2004, 08:07 AM

There is freedom within, there is freedom without
Try to catch the deluge in a paper cup
There's a battle ahead, many battles are lost
But you'll never see the end of the road
While you're travelling with me

Hey now, hey now
Don't dream it's over
Hey now, hey now
When the world comes in
They come, they come
To build a wall between us
We know they won't win

Now I'm towing my car, there's a hole in the roof
My possessions are causing me suspicion but there's no proof
In the paper today tales of war and of waste
But you turn right over to the T.V. page

Hey now, hey now
Don't dream it's over
Hey now, hey now
When the world comes in
They come, they come
To build a wall between us
We know they won't win

Now I'm walking again to the beat of a drum
And I'm counting the steps to the door of your heart
Only shadows ahead barely clearing the roof
Get to know the feeling of liberation and release

Hey now, hey now
Don't dream it's over
Hey now, hey now
When the world comes in
They come, they come
To build a wall between us
Don't ever let them win

Oavirus.com.

"None on us" O&A

"Billy Staples is a big waist" R+Fhttp://politics-suck.com/kerrysucks.jpg

This message was edited by saveopieanthony.net on 11-3-04 @ 12:08 PM

TheMojoPin

11-03-2004, 08:07 AM

dems lost in gay marriage..

Something tells me that if your main concern with the gay marriage issue is whether or not the Left or the Right "wins it," then you didn't even come close to "getting it" in the first place.

<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=TheMojoPin">
1979 <> "You can tell some lies about the good times we've had, but I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

angrymissy

11-03-2004, 08:07 AM

48% of the VOTERS is a far cry from 48% of the COUNTRY.

Just FYI.

true true tis' what I meant

 <img src="http://thereisnogod.faithweb.com/images/missy2.gif" width="300" height="100" border="1">

silera

11-03-2004, 08:08 AM

dems lost in gay marriage..

Something tells me that if your main concern with the gay marriage issue is whether or not the Left or the Right "wins it," then you didn't even come close to "getting it" in the first place.

yARRRRRRRRg!

<center>http://hometown.aol.com/bonedaddy5/images/silerass.jpg
AND WHAT?</center>

HBox

11-03-2004, 08:11 AM

And until my bitterness subsides, I'm gonna start berating Bush voters everytime he fucks up. :mad:

http://www.myimgs.com/random/hbox/sig

Tazz

11-03-2004, 08:13 AM

I didn't vote because I knew New York was for Kerry

Those who don't vote have no right to complain.

<img src=http://tazz1376.homestead.com/files/homersig.gif>

TheMojoPin

11-03-2004, 08:13 AM

OK, since the Republicans have the majority in EVERYTHING...when things fucks up, how are they gonna be able to turn and blame the "scary liberals?"

It's all on their heads, now.

Hmmmm, maybe this dominance will finally put some of those yammering pundits out of business. It's pretty hard to rail about the "liberal menace" when your guys control EVERYTHING.

<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=TheMojoPin">
1979 <> "You can tell some lies about the good times we've had, but I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

HBox

11-03-2004, 08:15 AM

Hmmmm, maybe this dominance will finally put some of those yammering pundits out of business. It's pretty hard to rail about the "liberal menace" when your guys control EVERYTHING.

They've controlled everything for 2 years now!

http://www.myimgs.com/random/hbox/sig

silera

11-03-2004, 08:17 AM

Those who don't vote have no right to complain.

I hope this is a bad joke.

However, in case it's not and you actually meant that. I pointed out my lack of a vote to explain why I disagree with the electoral college. I moved to Jersey in the last month and a half and couldn't register there because I needed to have proof of my new address which didn't come before the registration deadline.

I am registered in New York but a) I wanted Kerry and New York was for Kerry and b) I didn't think it was ethical that I should go and vote on local elections in a state that I no longer lived in.

Furthermore, if I did not vote because I was an immigrant, or because I was too young, or because I was a lazy fuck, the constitution does say that I do INDEED have a right to complain.

<center>http://hometown.aol.com/bonedaddy5/images/silerass.jpg
AND WHAT?</center>

This message was edited by silera on 11-3-04 @ 12:21 PM

mdr55

11-03-2004, 08:19 AM

Meanwhile, CA, MA, NY and the blue states can continue to send the Federal Government taxes only to get less than 80% back on every dollar to subsidize the red states.

What's so wrong about keeping our farms and corn fields safe from terrorist? Heck, America got to eat. Thanks for everything Boss Hog.

42nd-delay

11-03-2004, 08:19 AM

They've controlled everything for 2 years now!

It's just that, after 8 years of Bush, the outcome of his policies should be crystal clear - and in a way, for once in his life, he should have to clean up the mess he's made.

------------------------------
"42nd-delay is the only person who's making sense." - Ron, 3-12-02

TheMojoPin

11-03-2004, 08:21 AM

Again, I ask...what the fuck good was John Edwards?

Just another highlight of how ridicuously awful the modern Democratic party is, when their golden boy VP-nominee can't even carry his own goddamn state.

<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=TheMojoPin">
1979 <> "You can tell some lies about the good times we've had, but I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

cumbiero_81

11-03-2004, 08:25 AM

Lets thank the Bush Supporters + Voters :

http://www.pr9000.net/archives/ugly.jpg

http://www.cantstopthebleeding.com/C1505939912/E1515749934/Media/Kenny%20ugly.jpg

http://bushspeaks.com/img/bush_handicapped.jpg

<html>
<center>
<img src = "http://www.cumbiaycuarteto.com/Graphics/Ron_Fez_Banner.jpg">
</center>
</html>

East Side Dave

11-03-2004, 08:36 AM

Dark day for America.

<img src=http://www.richstillwell.com/ESD.gif>
Big Ass Mafia

Click this link (http://www.publicbroadcasting.net/thenight/ppr/index.shtml) to hear my show on 90.5 The Night FM;
Friday and Saturday Night: Midnight to 5 AM you bastards!

mikeyboy

11-03-2004, 08:44 AM

And it should be noted, that Bush has set the record for the most popular votes ever won by any candidate (higher even than Reagan in the 80s).

Everyone keeps saying this, yet failing to notice that the american population is HIGHER than ever before. So of course, each election, one of the candidates could get the highest number of votes ever.

Additionally, Kerry also got more votes yesterday than Reagan did in 1980 or 1984. (http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0781450.html)

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Uncle Smokey

11-03-2004, 08:48 AM

Just another highlight of how ridicuously awful the modern Democratic party is, when their golden boy VP-nominee can't even carry his own goddamn state.

As much as the modern Democratic party loves to shoot itself in the foot, I can't lay this one on them. There is nothing in the universe of Dem party principles that can energize and expand their base the way the Republicans can by sparking up the evangelical right. Christ, with the progress of this war, the ballooning of the debt, the shattering of longstanding alliances, the relentless assault on the environment and the Constitution, there is no WAY that an involved populace would permit the Republicans to shape the debate in terms of distracting "morality" questions of the sort which carried the day. The red states weren't voting the way they did because of a lack of a viable Democratic party or candidate; they voted as they did because they prefer a social agenda rooted in easy, black and white answers to moral questions of negligible importance. There is not a damn thing the Democrats could have done about that.

<IMG SRC="http://www.jrsfilm.com/bishop1.asp">

East Side Dave

11-03-2004, 08:48 AM

Who cares about facts, Mikey????? We're Bush Republicans- and we're fucking dumb!!!!!!!

<img src=http://www.richstillwell.com/ESD.gif>
Big Ass Mafia

Click this link (http://www.publicbroadcasting.net/thenight/ppr/index.shtml) to hear my show on 90.5 The Night FM;
Friday and Saturday Night: Midnight to 5 AM you bastards!

HBox

11-03-2004, 08:51 AM

I know how desperate Republicans are to have another Reagan, but please stop. Bush isn't it. Reagan won by 17 million votes in 1984. Bush won by 3.5 million. Reagan nearly swept the electoral college. Bush will barely win it. There is no comparison in any real way.

But here's some good news: At least The Daily Show will be hilarious for the next 4 years.

http://www.myimgs.com/random/hbox/sig

This message was edited by HBox on 11-3-04 @ 12:59 PM

silera

11-03-2004, 09:04 AM

The red states weren't voting the way they did because of a lack of a viable Democratic party or candidate; they voted as they did because they prefer a social agenda rooted in easy, black and white answers to moral questions of negligible importance. There is not a damn thing the Democrats could have done about that.

Ding! Ding! Ding!

<center>http://hometown.aol.com/bonedaddy5/images/silerass.jpg
AND WHAT?</center>

A.J.

11-03-2004, 09:07 AM

It's pretty hard to rail about the "liberal menace" when your guys control EVERYTHING.

Except the media of course. :)

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Red Sox Nation

Doctor Manhattan

11-03-2004, 09:16 AM

http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2004/ALLPOLITICS/11/03/election.main/top.bush.tuesday.ap.jpg

God Damn, that guy looks happy.

Congrats W, You actually won one. You will be serving 2 terms unlike HW.

If Jeb runs and wins then I'm gonna move out of the USA, "Stone Cold Steve Austin" style with the 2 fingered yelling "So Long, Suckers"

Seriously, I hope he takes these next 4 years to make me and the anti-Bush people see we were wrong.

If during the 2008 campaign, Hillary and Jeb are debating how to end the Iraq invasion, how to find Osama Bin Laden and whatever other mess W2 gets us into then I'm gonna be pissed.

I'd love to have you Bush People tell me "I told you so" when Bush fixes at least some of our problems.

<a href="http://www.fox.com/24"><img src="http://members.cox.net/nicksporsche/wwjbd.jpg" border=0></a>

This message was edited by SKW on 11-3-04 @ 1:16 PM

curtoid

11-03-2004, 09:22 AM

A few things...

First...the Redskins fucking loss! This is just so unfair! ((stomps foot))

Next...seriously...this election, in the end, came down to one thing - fear. People are still afraid, and if they aren't, the administration will make sure they are. Of terrorists, of gays, of Janet Jackson's hooter, of the French, of so called "liberals," of each other. How the strongest country in the world can retreat into a defensive posture of frightened babies will be one for the history books.

An example of how fear has changed everything.from January until September 2001, some of the top news stories were about the environment - there were successes in fighting the arctic drilling as well as arsenic in the water. Now, in a post-9/11 world maybe one of the most explosive issues has been neutered useless. Not for discussion in the debates, and not even brought up in polls.

Unlike 2000, there is no doubt the Republicans won (I'll leave off "fair and square" just because I can be petty). One thing that I haven't seen discussed is the ballot initiatives all across the country helped bring out the conservative base. It was a calculated, planned, coordinated effort that the Democrats really have a hard time getting their hands around, because the liberal/progressive interests are so much more complex; so many key issues that they can target, its tough to come up with a select group of topics to stay on message. The GOP came up with some key issues, in some key states, to give more incentive to their base to get out there.

Something else.redistricting, by both the GOP & the Democrats, have left house members across the country with districts that, for the most part, go uncontested in the election cycles. What we are left with, on both sides, is the extremes of both sides governing in the House of Reps (because they don't have to appeal to any sort of moderate compromises), and pretty damn near impossible to work with each other once they all get to Washington. Each election cycle fewer and fewer seats really go challenged. It leaves the house divided, bitter and impossible to work in, and ultimately makes the red states redder, and the blue states bluer, which trickles up to the Presidential level. And so we start off on election day with only 10 states that really matter. Again - we need to get rid of the electoral college.

And for people who are freaked out that with the Republicans continuing to control everything (even though they will continue to complain like outsiders), just remember that Bush is a lame duck, and now that he has been reelected, members of his own party will feel less inclined to rubber stamp each and every thing his administration tries to push through. There may be some pressure on those running for re-election in 2006, but for the most part the real conservatives (upset over nation building and huge deficits) and the moderates (some with more in common with the democrats, even if they don't admit it, and queasy from the more extreme talk coming from the neo-con and religious core) could actually make some of the more egregious items on the administration's plate not come to fruition.

Finally, everyone knows the pendulum will swing back in the other direction. It always does. Many on the left had assumed that it couldn't swing any more to the right than it had, but then Janet Jackson whipped her titty out & judges said that Gay people can hook up, and common sense went out the window across the country and was replaced by fear. Maybe now it finally has gone too far.

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"One of our normal friends." - RB

SatCam

11-03-2004, 09:22 AM

I have a feeling the next millenium will be ruled by the next 1,000 generations of Bushes and Clintons!

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A.J.

11-03-2004, 09:26 AM

Historically, second terms don't go very well for Presidents. Let's hope for all of our sakes that this too shall be reversed.

One great sight last night: Marion Barry is back in DC politics!

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JPMNICK

11-03-2004, 09:35 AM

within 12 months of re-election some rep. somewhere will call for an impeachment. i just have a gut feeling. I think for lying about the WMD's.

http://home.comcast.net/~nickcontardo/a_schilling_ft1.jpg
Thanks to Monsterone for my first sig.

torker

11-03-2004, 09:38 AM

Bush took a majority of the vote.

it's a mandate

<IMG SRC=http://us.f2.yahoofs.com/users/41855e91zfa5977f1/torker131313/__sr_/3429.jpg?pfmXSiBBbcFBYXzk>

Doctor Manhattan

11-03-2004, 09:45 AM

within 12 months of re-election some rep. somewhere will call for an impeachment. i just have a gut feeling. I think for lying about the WMD's.

It sure hurt Clinton.

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Uncle Smokey

11-03-2004, 09:53 AM

within 12 months of re-election some rep. somewhere will call for an impeachment. i just have a gut feeling. I think for lying about the WMD's.

No no no. Lying about wmd helps you get re-elected. Lying about getting you dick sucked gets you impeached. How is it that you dont have this straight by now?

<IMG SRC="http://www.jrsfilm.com/bishop1.asp">

Furtherman

11-03-2004, 10:01 AM

New map of the American conscience unveiled:

http://www.patriotresource.com/lotr/pics/locations/mordor.jpg

<IMG SRC="http://www.chaoticconcepts.com/randomizer/random.php?uid=7">
...with thanks to JustJon

11-03-2004, 10:23 AM

Here's to 4 more years.

4 more years of hell in the White House

4 more years of finding the WMD's

4 More more years of Tax cuts for the wealthy

<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v366/ag1247/yanks2.gif">

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Furtherman

11-03-2004, 10:34 AM

I'm going to start dating my checks 1950.

<IMG SRC="http://www.chaoticconcepts.com/randomizer/random.php?uid=7">
...with thanks to JustJon

JPMNICK

11-03-2004, 10:49 AM

MSNBC: What happened to the anticipated big youth vote? They came out in the same percentage - 17 percent - this election as they did in 2000?

Russert: Right, but last time they voted for Al Gore over George W. Bush 48 percent to 46 percent. They were considerably much more in support of John Kerry this time - but with no overwhelming total number.

Earlier in the thread Reefy and I were wondering hwo much the Vote of Die thing impacted the election. This is according to Tim Russert.

http://home.comcast.net/~nickcontardo/a_schilling_ft1.jpg
Thanks to Monsterone for my first sig.

A.J.

11-03-2004, 10:54 AM

What happened to the anticipated big youth vote?

They didn't Choose so they Lost.

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torker

11-03-2004, 10:59 AM

They didn't Choose so they Lost.

P. Diddy is mobilizing the death squads

This message was edited by torker1313 on 11-3-04 @ 3:00 PM

HBox

11-03-2004, 11:01 AM

I read somewhere that the youth vote was way up, except that every other demographic group was up as well, so it didn't make a difference.

http://www.myimgs.com/random/hbox/sig

Freakshow

11-03-2004, 11:07 AM

New map of the American conscience unveiled:

Does this mean I get to meet a girl so fair? That would rule.

<center><img width=300 src=http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=Freakshow>
Thanks Furtherman, SatCam, Reefdweller, and Monsterone! We don't need a cure we need a final solution</center>

SatCam

11-03-2004, 11:11 AM

Earlier in the thread Reefy and I were wondering hwo much the Vote of Die thing impacted the election.

Once you hit 18 does anyone even watch MTV anymore?

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Reephdweller

11-03-2004, 11:26 AM

Once you hit 18 does anyone even watch MTV anymore?

Not since they stopped playing music videos

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Tenbatsuzen

11-03-2004, 11:26 AM

Do you know what I don't get?

The people who say "we're doomed!" "it's a dark day for America", etc. etc. etc.

Explain your reasoning. Now.

I've been listening to talk radio today. Even when libs are given an open forum, THEY CAN'T COME UP WITH A SOLID, LOGISTICAL REASON WHY KERRY SHOULD HAVE WON.

- He never fully explained his plans for social, economic, or war reform.

- He was hypocritical with his stance on his service in Vietnam

- His record was hardcore liberal

I want to know why we're doomed. I want to know why we're going into the shitter. I want to know after 220+ fucking years of being the greatest country on Earth, why it's all going to end.

And for everyone who's using the war as a crutch, here's a newsflash: There is no chance in hell that Kerry was going to pull everyone out of Iraq come February 2005. Wanna know why? Because if we do, the political quagmire would create an even WORSE situation than we have now.

<center><img src="http://s95227862.onlinehome.us/sigs/chadsig1.jpg"></center>

Furtherman

11-03-2004, 11:38 AM

Yes, the hardcore "liberals" will say we're doomed. But they were always a half empty type of bunch.

What does cast a dark cloud over America is that Bush:

1) failed to establish himself as a respected world leader, Americans who travel abroad are fighting growing anti-American anger.

2) the nation's economy is a deficit economists could not have imagined in their most negative forecasts

3) His skills as an oilman have resulted in a near doubling of prices at the gas pump.

And we re-elected him.

<IMG SRC="http://www.chaoticconcepts.com/randomizer/random.php?uid=7">
...with thanks to JustJon

Doctor Manhattan

11-03-2004, 11:41 AM

from cnn.com

Bush became the first U.S. presidential candidate since his father to win with more than 50 percent of the vote. (Special Report: America Votes 2004)

That would be impressive, but there have only been 2 presidental canidates before him and one of them was himself.

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silera

11-03-2004, 11:49 AM

Explain your reasoning. Now.

Read them. They're there. You just don't agree with them.

-Kerry supports a woman's right to choose, had a national healthcare plan, had plans to bring fiscal constraint back to the white house.
-Kerry fought in a war and decided after he fought, like many other American Protesters of the Vietnam War, that it was a bad thing. Some people call it growth, others call it hypocrisy.
-Why is being a liberal automatically an insult and a negative? I simply don't see where it fits into this equation.

Stop with the fake exasperation. You're not exasperated because you don't understand, you're exasperated because you don't agree.

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Reephdweller

11-03-2004, 11:51 AM

Like others have said, I don't quite get the whole "sky is falling" attitude that some people have had here. I'm not defending Bush and there are plenty of questionable things on his part that are worthy of criticism, though I think the whole "we are doomed" thing is a bit much. I am hopefull that things will be better in his second term.

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HBox

11-03-2004, 11:55 AM

He never fully explained his plans for social, economic, or war reform.

Is that something only Bush can get away with, because I have no idea what he's gonna do either.

Anyway, John Kerry's website explained a lot of his plans in detail.

He was hypocritical with his stance on his service in Vietnam

What the hell does that mean? And what does it have to do with anything? And don't say he based his candidacy on it; he's barely mentioned his service in Vietnam since September.

His record was hardcore liberal

That is just wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong. (http://www.spinsanity.org/post.html?2004_07_25_archive.html#1090945107759910 52)

And have you even been paying attention to those of us who are sick and tired of the Democrats pandering to the middle?

I want to know why we're doomed.

We're not. But we're headed downhill, IMO. And I use the last 4 years to come to that conclusion.

http://www.myimgs.com/random/hbox/sig

Mike Teacher

11-03-2004, 11:56 AM

in a country built on freedom and independence and respect for all life

White + Male + Land Owner = all life?

The Elitism, racism, and sexism was far worse back then. No comparison.

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Reephdweller

11-03-2004, 11:56 AM

Kerry supports a woman's right to choose, had a national healthcare plan, had plans to bring fiscal constraint back to the white house.

I agree and understand your concerns on these issues. I have the same concerns as well. I just don't understand the doom that some people are expressing. What I mean is, what is the "doom" you are talking about. Silera gave very good and valid examples of what is of concern to her with this administration. I would just like to see those who are just saying "we're screwed" or whatever will explain what it is that they're worried about with another four years of Bush.

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Tenbatsuzen

11-03-2004, 12:09 PM

Explain your reasoning. Now.

Read them. They're there. You just don't agree with them.

-Kerry supports a woman's right to choose, had a national healthcare plan, had plans to bring fiscal constraint back to the white house.

I also support a woman's right to choose. As I've said before, I support stem cell research and a woman's right, although I'm pro-adoption. As for national healthcare, the numbers that Kerry was quoting to support this was absolutely astronomical, which was not fiscal constraint.

-Kerry fought in a war and decided after he fought, like many other American Protesters of the Vietnam War, that it was a bad thing. Some people call it growth, others call it hypocrisy.

BUT THAT'S JUST IT. I have absolutely zero issue with Kerry protesting Vietnam after the fact. I took issue with the fact that his Vietnam service was a MAJOR MAJOR MAJOR component of his platform.

You can't serve in something, be a huge protestor against it, and then turn around and be so proud of your service that it's a building block of your campaign.

-Why is being a liberal automatically an insult and a negative? I simply don't see where it fits into this equation.

I never said being a liberal is a bad thing. I take issue with this over-obnoxious hardcore liberals (cough*moveon*cough) who equate Bush with Satan himself.

Stop with the fake exasperation. You're not exasperated because you don't understand, you're exasperated because you don't agree.

I'm exasperated with people who are telling us we are so doomed.

Even with the very slim chance that Roe v. Wade is overturned, it'll go back to a state by state basis. Abortion will never be 100 percent illegal in America again.

<center><img src="http://s95227862.onlinehome.us/sigs/chadsig1.jpg"></center>

Furtherman

11-03-2004, 12:11 PM

Tenbatsuzen

11-03-2004, 12:24 PM

What I fear most is that Bush will bring in more of his type of thinking people into our government.

We may be at the start of a path whereas America will become what we are supposedly fighting - a nation run by religious regimes and supported by fanatics.

Do people really think that the military state they envision is possible in 4 years' time?

It's not.

We saw how this election went. Bush is toeing a very, very fine line, and all it takes is one or two major snafus and we'll swing back to the left for change.

<center><img src="http://s95227862.onlinehome.us/sigs/chadsig1.jpg"></center>

FMJeff

11-03-2004, 12:25 PM

What I fear most is that Bush will bring in more of his type of thinking people into our government.

We may be at the start of a path whereas America will become what we are supposedly fighting - a nation run by religious regimes and supported by fanatics.

<IMG SRC="http://www.chaoticconcepts.com/randomizer/random.php?uid=7">
...with thanks to JustJon

It's already happening

When Bush went to bed about 5 a.m., it wasn't clear he had won. He awoke at 7 a.m. and arrived in the Oval Office about an hour later with his father, the former president. He visited with his senior staff and made congratulatory calls, including one to Rep. Jim DeMint, R-South Carolina, who won his race for the Senate.

"Now's the time to get it done," McClellan said Bush told DeMint in a reference to the president's second-term agenda.

Demint is a far right radical. We're fucking doomed. I mean it. "Now's the time to get it done??!?!?!?!?" What the fuck kind of code is that? You're talking about the next holocaust in this country, aren't you...fucker....

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It made my heart sing.

This message was edited by FMJeff on 11-3-04 @ 4:25 PM

ADF

11-03-2004, 12:29 PM

SatCam

11-03-2004, 12:30 PM

I don't think you guys get it...

Now I forget what my point is.

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Furtherman

11-03-2004, 12:30 PM

Do people really think that the military state they envision is possible in 4 years' time?

Who said anything about a military state?

<IMG SRC="http://www.chaoticconcepts.com/randomizer/random.php?uid=7">
...with thanks to JustJon

FMJeff

11-03-2004, 12:32 PM

This is why we're doomed.

-Our political standing in the world will fall precipitously.

-Bush's economic policies will bring our deficit to armageddon proportions.

-It gives the green light to intolerance.

-The American conscience seems to be "Fuck the rest of the world, we're the United States and we'll do what we want."

I don't have any confidence that Bush's policies will make us any better off in a political, moral, economic, or physical sense. In fact, I believe they will lead us in quite the opposite direction.

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It made my heart sing.

This message was edited by FMJeff on 11-3-04 @ 4:35 PM

SatCam

11-03-2004, 12:33 PM

Okay, I have a serious question. Several of you have been saying that we're doomed. But to what extent? As long as the earth doesn't crash into the sun, I think I'm cool.

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Neogoon

11-03-2004, 12:36 PM

Do you know what I don't get?

The people who say "we're doomed!" "it's a dark day for America", etc. etc. etc.

Explain your reasoning. Now.

Because some of us don't want to live in a theocracy.
(Did you know that Ashcroft's & his morals police were set to launch a major crackdown on pornography and was only diverted because of Sept. 11? Check Frontline some time and think about that the next time you're running a batch.)

Because despite calls for cooperation and bipartisanship, the Republican leadership of the House & Senate and the administration have gone above and beyond to shut the minority party of out the decisionmaking process, instead giving unprecedented access to special interests and the shock troops of the religious right...not to mention subverting public science on bioethics, energy policy, stem cell research, and the environment. (Perhaps you missed the open letter authored by the Nobel laureates.)

Because Bush's evangelical fundamentalist handlers will get to appoint as many as 3 Supreme Court justices based on their own rigid ideological litmus test. (They're not going to make the "mistake" of nominating centrist judges like O'Connor and Souter again.)

Because some of us don't like the fact that the decision to invade Iraq was made on September 12, 2001. (Check the Cheney memo.) And because some of us don't want to invade Iran and Syria -- at least, not before stabilizing Afghanistan and Iraq, gaining international support, having a plan for the postwar, and before exhausting all available options -- and definitely not in some blind belief in a magic democratic domino effect for the Middle East.

Because some of us feel his war on terror is fixated on Vietnam-style bodycounts of the top-tier al Qaeda leadership -- despite evidence that the nature of Islamist fundamentalist terror has shifted to a decentralized network of franchise united by a common ideology instead of a centrally-coordinated network, and that without an effective multi-tiered strategy that impacts the root causes of Islamic terror, every 500lb bomb we drop recruits for bin Laden. Who we haven't captured yet.

Because some of us don't like ballooning deficits, and a president whose only fiscal policy is tax cuts for the rich. (Economy growing? Tax cuts for the rich. Economy slumping? Tax cuts for the rich & invade Iraq.)

Because some of us think we should actively trying to do something about the Israeli/Palestinian situation, instead of trying to bring about the Endtime.

Because some of don't like the hypocrisy of a president who believes in states' rights on abortion, but believes that we need a constitutional amendment on gay marriage. Or the hypocrisy of claiming to be fiscally responsible, yet throwing no-bid, cost-plus, no-oversight sweetheart deals to Halliburton, KBR, Bechtel.

Because some of don't like a president who is a moron...a moron so blinded by ideology that he can never recognize, let alone admit a mistake.

Ceci n'est pas une signature.

Tenbatsuzen

11-03-2004, 12:39 PM

Another thing I can't understand...

Bush is so evil, yet he's a moron.

An evil moron is someone who robs a bank, shoots a teller, and then calls a cab to to pick him up.

In order to fuck with you people that much, he's anything but a moron.

<center><img src="http://s95227862.onlinehome.us/sigs/chadsig1.jpg"></center>

furie

11-03-2004, 12:42 PM

so much for all of us moving onand putting the past behind us.

<img src="http://homepage.mac.com/furie1335/.Pictures/rfsigs/mkf.jpg">

<a href="http://fallingtowardsapotheosis.blogspot.com/">mental vomit</a>

SatCam

11-03-2004, 12:43 PM

Because some of us don't like ballooning deficits, and a president whose only fiscal policy is tax cuts for the rich. (Economy growing? Tax cuts for the rich. Economy slumping? Tax cuts for the rich & invade Iraq.)
Because some of us think we should actively trying to do something about the Israeli/Palestinian situation, instead of trying to bring about the Endtime.
Because some of don't like a president who is a moron...a moron so blinded by ideology that he can never recognize, let alone admit a mistake.
I disagree, however I'm not a supporter of Bush and I do not think we're doomed.

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curtoid

11-03-2004, 12:47 PM

An evil moron is someone who robs a bank, shoots a teller, and then calls a cab to to pick him up.

If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/curtoid/22.jpg
"One of our normal friends." - RB

SatCam

11-03-2004, 12:49 PM

If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

...it must be the Aflac duck!
http://afl-al-westfl.com/_images/duckbody1.gif

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Tazz

11-03-2004, 12:49 PM

Maybe someone can help me out here. If the tax cuts were only for the rich, why did my paycheck get a little bigger after they passed?

Unless 40K a year makes you "wealthy" in this country.

<img src=http://tazz1376.homestead.com/files/homersig.gif>

Reephdweller

11-03-2004, 12:50 PM

As long as the earth doesn't crash into the sun, I think I'm cool.

Oh man, but wouldn't that be so cool!!

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Reephdweller

11-03-2004, 12:52 PM

Is that AFLAC...

http://afl-al-westfl.com/_images/duckbody1.gif

or AFFLECK?

http://ak1.aka.eonline.com/7/1480/1218/0001/www.eonline.com/Features/Features/Hot16/Guys/Images/pic.affleck.jpg

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HBox

11-03-2004, 12:53 PM

Maybe someone can help me out here. If the tax cuts were only for the rich, why did my paycheck get a little bigger after they passed?

Unless 40K a year makes you "wealthy" in this country.

No one was ever saying they were ONLY for the wealthy.

http://www.myimgs.com/random/hbox/sig

Neogoon

11-03-2004, 12:58 PM

Is that AFLAC...

or AFFLECK?

I thought it was
http://www.flecktones.com/downloads/bnrbasb.gif

Ceci n'est pas une signature.

Neogoon

11-03-2004, 01:06 PM

so much for all of us moving onand putting the past behind us.

Eh, who knows; the French sent Bush a nice letter. (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=518&e=13&u=/ap/eln_world_view)

"PARIS - European allies alienated by President Bush (news - web sites)'s first four years in power offered Wednesday to let bygones be bygones, saying they want to work with the new administration and seeking, right from Day 1, to get the new White House to listen more to overseas opinion."

Then again, we saw how the administration implemented "bipartisanship" in the first term. Those boys sure do know how to reward their buds and punish their foes...

Ceci n'est pas une signature.

LordJezo

11-03-2004, 01:08 PM

Michael Moore replaces homepage with a picture of Bush made from the faces of the dead soldiers (http://www.michaelmoore.com/)

What an American champion.

He's falling apart now that the election did not go his way.

------------------------
I KISS YOU!

Furtherman

11-03-2004, 01:12 PM

Truth in art. Our troops are dying in Iraq for what?

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This message was edited by Furtherman on 11-3-04 @ 5:13 PM

reeshy

11-03-2004, 01:14 PM

No one was ever saying they were ONLY for the wealthy.

Not true...the liberal media coined that phrase!!!!!

[center]<IMG SRC="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=reeshy">
[center]

LordJezo

11-03-2004, 01:16 PM

Truth in art. Our troops are dying in Iraq for what?

For a cause over half the country seemed fix to re-elect the president on.

Seems like the left really does not matter at all and most of us will go with our president till the end.

------------------------
I KISS YOU!

GodsFavoriteMan

11-03-2004, 01:17 PM

No one was ever saying they were ONLY for the wealthy.

Not true...the liberal media coined that phrase!!!!!

No. . .we liberals coined that phrase.

<img src="http://home.comcast.net/~stan_ferguson/goodluvin_copy.jpg">

SatCam

11-03-2004, 01:21 PM

Michael Moore replaces homepage with a picture of Bush made from the faces of the dead soldiers

He's exploiting our troops!!!!!!

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This message was edited by SatCam on 11-3-04 @ 5:25 PM

canofsoup15

11-03-2004, 01:24 PM

Next...seriously...this election, in the end, came down to one thing - fear. People are still afraid, and if they aren't, the administration will make sure they are. Of terrorists, of gays, of Janet Jackson's hooter, of the French, of so called "liberals," of each other.

I honestly don't understand this whole "voting on fear" thing everyone has brought up. I haven't heard anything terrorizing in at least a month now, except for the recent Osama Bin Laden tape. And if people were that afraid of the tape and terror, wouldn't they do what he ordered and vote third party or become a blue state. (http://www.antiwar.com/cole/?articleid=3898)

Do you know what I don't get?

The people who say "we're doomed!" "it's a dark day for America", etc. etc. etc.

I don't get that either. Sure he's a bad president, you'd be lying to yourself if you didn't think that. I even support the guy and I know that he's a bad president. But anti-Bush people are making it sound like we just elected Satan, and he's planning on bombing America himself. Relationships overseas have never been stellar, the Middle East for the most part has disliked us for awhile. I spoke with a friend who came over here from Germany for a year or two about our relationship with them, and he explained that Europe doesn't dislike America or it's people, it dislikes our president. It's not necessarily a good thing, but they aren't going to start mugging Americans.

I hope that these next four years will get better, I can't imagine it getting that much worse, I think that it's time to become more cautious and to attempt to heal. I think that the tone of this administration in the past months has been to do just that: Heal. I can only hope for the best.

One more thing: Without the war in Iraq, a good load of Kerry supporters lose their arguments, including some on this board. There are exceptions (like Silera) who actually get involved in politics instead of walking in with their head up their ass. Thanks to those people (who learn facts).

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 All I need is your head on stake.</marquee>

This message was edited by canofsoup15 on 11-3-04 @ 5:27 PM

Hottub

11-03-2004, 02:03 PM

Wow, Bush winning put a lot of people here on edge. It is not the end of the world. And he is not a stupid man.
Like it or not, he is our President for another 4 years.
We, as Americans, need to let go of our petty resentment, and get behind our Commander-in-Chief.
True, he is no Reagan, but he ain't no Carter either!! (The President, not the Mod.)

Look on the bright side, now we've got 4 more years of Jenna to look forward to!

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keithy_19

11-03-2004, 02:04 PM

:)

Edit: Mr. Moore is a horrible human being.

http://64.177.177.182/katylina/keithy.gif

This message was edited by Keithy_19 on 11-3-04 @ 6:05 PM

JerryTaker

11-03-2004, 02:15 PM

To everyone whining and bitching and complaining about only having two partys, and "our choices suck" yadda:

Enjoy your one party government.

I hear the summers are nice in the netherlands....

 
[The Patriot Act has decreed this sig indecent, and has put JerryTaker under suspicion]

Bestinshow

11-03-2004, 02:16 PM

I didn't vote for Bush because he made me afraid. I voted for Bush because he keeps me from being afraid. Its Kerry that scares the shit out of me, as he should of you.

And I don't give a shit what the people of Germany think of Bush. I and many others despise the leaders of France and germany. Do you think they give a shit what you think of Shroeder or Chirac?

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Yerdaddy

11-03-2004, 02:16 PM

Do you know what I don't get?

The people who say "we're doomed!" "it's a dark day for America", etc. etc. etc.

Here's my honest reply. It's an incomplete expression of what I feel right now. Take it or leave it.

Everything I posted in the last year about how the administration's handling of the Iraq war were understated. For the last two weeks I've been debating whether to create a thread explaining how I think the Iraq war cannot be "won" at this point. I wanted to describe what I understand about how the loss of Fallujah and 4 of the 18 provinces of Iraq over the last 7 months, and the decision to wait until after our election to try to take them back with only two months left before the Iraqi elections will most likely undermine the Iraqi elections so much as to make them meaningless. At that point, there will be nothing in Iraq resembling the "democracy" we set as the goal, and instead Iraq will be irrevocably divided by ethnic, political, religious and tribal differences and will most likey descend into civil war. I didn't post this opinion because I figured it would just be construed as an attempt by me to undermine Bush's reelection. Now that the election is settled I think it's important to say to you all that I think Iraq is lost. It is now a salvage operation, although I think after the Iraqi elections that we won't have the influence any longer to effect any positive changes. Iraq will be ruled by one or two minority parties that will have a strong incentive, based on the popular sentiment among Iraqis that the US should leave, to minimize our presence and fight it out amongst themselves. At this point I honestly don't think that either Kerry or Bush would have been able to save Iraq from the insurgency, which the military, under its current civilian leadership has not proved capable of restraining. From what I've heard from military commanders and from the problems that are currently getting worse, they just don't have a handle on it yet, and I think it's too late for them to find a solution and apply it. The insurgency will outlast us in Iraq, and it only remainst to be seen how the Iraqis themselves will try and defeat it before it rips that country apart.

For me, this is the most difficult part of the Bush victory. The American people have chosen not to think about this war and the war on terrorism in a complex way. They have chosen not to hold the administration's failures in conducting this war against them. They have endorsed not only war as a first choice for dealing with crises, but they have accepted even poorly planned wars as acceptable over the possibility of using diplomacy and cooperation as alternatives to war. In short, I think the message sent is that we feel that war=strength, simplicity=strength, complexity=weakness, and international cooperation=weakness. I think this signals a return to pre-WWI days of "might makes right" in how all nations conduct their foreign policies. There will be contempt for and a continual weakening of non-proliferation treaties and an increase in regional arms races. There will be an increase in comptition among global powers, from Europe to Russia, Japan and China, in contrast to the Cold War alliances that made avoidance of open conflict a primary objective, and security and economic cooperation a tool for achieving that end. You want to know what won the Cold War? It was our capacity to develop technology through international free markets and fair competition with our security partners in Japan and Europe. By the time the Soviet Union was achieving its goal of leading the world in production of pig iron and heavy machinery we were leading the world in microchips and plastics, which rendered the USSR a virtual third world country. That kind of cooperation is fundamentally undermind if the sole remaining superpower declares its foreign policy to be military and economic domination of the world, (see the "National Security Strategy of the United States"). If this were the policy of any other country, we would immediately feel threatene

keithy_19

11-03-2004, 02:23 PM

From Punkvoter.com:

We gave it our best shot. Senator Kerry today said that now we need to come together and heal as a nation. FUCK THAT. There's no fucking way, I am going to come together with these homophobic, flag-waving, god-fearing, gun-toting, uneducated, isolationist, ethnocentric REDNECKS. We live in a country that's in a shroud of ignorance. We do not compromise or come together with them. We fight them and everything they stand for. We as a community have to take care of each other and respect each other because apparently our current government has no interest in that. They do not care about gay people, they do not care about sick people, they do not care about black people, they do not care about poor people, they do not care about the rest of the world, they do not care about our environment, and they especially don't care about a woman's right to choose. We may have lost the battle, shit we may have lost the war...but we are not losing our minds. WE ARE RIGHT...THEY ARE WRONG...just because we seem to be the minority doesn't mean we come together with them. We continue to fight..and drink...and try to have a good fucking time. That's my plan anyway, thanx to you all, Fat Mike

Is it safe to say that he is a horrible person? Is it safe to say he's just bitter because all of his effort turned out to do nothing?

http://64.177.177.182/katylina/keithy.gif

FUNKMAN

11-03-2004, 02:39 PM

fucking Ohio!

<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/SatCam/sig_funkmanstill.jpg">

Bestinshow

11-03-2004, 02:49 PM

And I don't know if I find it scary or funny that so many people feel, that because a President refers to a bible once in a while, that he is a dictator that is going to lead us to totaltarianism. Maybe you people need to unbutton your top button.

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mdr55

11-03-2004, 02:54 PM

fucking Ohio!

http://us.ent4.yimg.com/tv.yahoo.com/tv/photos/5e/4f/242893.jpg

Cleveland rocks! Cleveland ROCKS!!!

fucking Ohio.

mikeyboy

11-03-2004, 02:56 PM

And I don't know if I find it scary or funny that so many people feel, that because a President refers to a bible once in a while, that he is a dictator that is going to lead us to totaltarianism. Maybe you people need to unbutton your top button.

Nobody in this thread has said anything like that. When you generalize people's opinions and put your own spin on it like that, it's insulting.

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Bestinshow

11-03-2004, 03:03 PM

Actually people have insinuated that. I am generalizing as not to attack or insult people specially.

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silera

11-03-2004, 03:03 PM

Refering to the bible and legislating it are two different things.

Every American president as far as I know has been Christian. Yet, for over 200 years, the seperation of church and state has been maintained as much to keep the Church out of the State as the other way around, and maybe even moreso.

It's more than just referring to the bible when you want to make it illegal for same sex couples to marry. It's more than just a reference to the bible when we ignore science based on what your bible says regarding life.

It's an imposition of your religion onto those that may not share your beliefs. An imposition that has shown throughout history to be the downfall of all the greatest nations.

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AND WHAT?</center>

mikeyboy

11-03-2004, 03:09 PM

Actually people have insinuated that.

That's a stretch, at least the way you stated it, even with exageration for effect.

And this doesn't help:

Maybe you people need to unbutton your top button.

This illustrates one of the real problems of this forum. People stop short of personal attack on individuals, but but take shots at groups instead (you people, you liberals, you Bush zealots). If people came in here more to discuss the issues rather than point fingers at supporters on the other side, this might actually be a civil forum.

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Hottub

11-03-2004, 03:16 PM

If people came in here more to discuss the issues rather than point fingers at supporters on the other side, this might actually be a civil forum.

Mike makes a pretty good point here. I think once the bitterness of the election has passed, and we ALL come to accept the fact that Mr. Bush is indeed our president, there is a chance for some REAL intellectual discussion in this forum.
I'll probably just be lurking until cooler heads prevail.

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TheMojoPin

11-03-2004, 03:18 PM

And I don't give a shit what the people of Germany think of Bush. I and many others despise the leaders of France and germany. Do you think they give a shit what you think of Shroeder or Chirac?

Here's the main and possibly ONLY reason I wanted Kerry to win over Bush...the hope of maintining our lasting foreign alliances.

Conservatives in this country have demonstrated in the last 4 years they don't give a shit about their fellow Americans just because they vote differently than them...and they sure as hell don't give a flying fuck about anyone else in the world. And that's been abundantly reflected in the Bush administration.

And I'm not saying we need to suck up or kiss everyone else's ass in the world...but Bush's dick-swinging nonsense is going to get us royally fucked.

In case nobody's noticed, the European Union has gotten a WHOLE LOT MORE united in the last few months, in no small part due to America pushing away her European allies. And don't assume for a second that a united European Union wouldn't be able to fuck os over sixteen ways to Sunday. And it doesn't to be with force...if they and their allies decided to enact sanctions againt America, we're fucked. I mean, disastrously fucked. A functioning European Union needs us for NOTHING.

<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=TheMojoPin">
1979 <> "You can tell some lies about the good times we've had, but I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

FUNKMAN

11-03-2004, 03:48 PM

the Springsteen performances were pretty good...

fucking Hawaii!

<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/SatCam/sig_funkmanstill.jpg">

Hottub

11-03-2004, 03:52 PM

And it doesn't to be with force...if they and their allies decided to enact sanctions againt America, we're fucked. I mean, disastrously fucked. A functioning European Union needs us for NOTHING.

Damn Mojo, I really expected more from you. Do you honestly think the EU would turn their backs on us??

C'mon, lay off the double cappuccino's and chill out.

There may be 1 or 2 countries that would possibly put tarrifs on our exports, but to have the EU, as a body, fuck us...

Ain't happinin', Bro. Not now, not ever!

<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v381/artemisentreri/hottub.gif" border=0 align=right>

"Ahh, Beer. The cause of, and answer to all of life's problems"
Big A.S.S.#22127
The Cruising Vessel (http://www.silentpix.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=Myalbums&file=thumbnails&album=41)

sr71blackbird

11-03-2004, 03:54 PM

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/turnersports/images/albert_lrg.jpg

YESSSSSSSSS!!

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sr71blackbird

11-03-2004, 04:04 PM

How did Chuck Floyd do?

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Reephdweller

11-03-2004, 04:05 PM

Bestinshow

11-03-2004, 04:13 PM

What some consider religious issues others consider morality issues. Different people draw there sense of morality from different sources. I am far from religious yet I feel I have a strong sense of morality. I have nothing against homosexuals, afterall, what people do behind closed doors is their business. I probably wouldn't want to know what half my heterosexual neighbors do either, but thats not my business. But I still believe marriage should be between a man and a woman with the intention of creating a family. Otherwise, why not have brothers and sisters or single parents with their children marry for convenience? Where do you draw the line? Who has the right to decide whats indescent? If the issue is benefits such as insurance than whats wrong with this civil union thing thats being discussed?

And as far as the whole abortion thing, nobody is going to make abortion completely illegal. But partial birth abortion should be illegal. If you cant decide within your first month, thats too bad. People need to be somewhat responsible.

As far as the stem cell research, thats a whole different can of worms. I hear so much crap on both sides I dont know what to think. All I know is alot of money had been spent on it, over many years and so far little has been learned(As far as I understand) Maybe there are more efficient methods of research. This doesnt sem to be as conclusive as som ewould have you believe. If it were , there would be more work done in the private sector.

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Reephdweller

11-03-2004, 04:13 PM

What the fuck did I just write?

I'm a meaty breasted zilch that should have a barn door blown out the back of head!!!

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sr71blackbird

11-03-2004, 04:13 PM

Yes those types are out there, but they're not all of them.

Were talking about the nonsensical ravings of a lunatic mind

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This message was edited by sr71blackbird on 11-3-04 @ 8:16 PM

Snoogans

11-03-2004, 04:20 PM

How did Chuck Floyd do?

seriously, did he win

http://home.comcast.net/~rmfallon/RFnetSnoogs.jpg
http://snoogans194.blogspot.com/
GO SAWX!!!!!
The worst choke job in the history of sports Snoogans 1, Monitor 0

Bestinshow

11-03-2004, 04:23 PM

Heather 8

11-03-2004, 04:32 PM

How did Chuck Floyd do?

seriously, did he win

Nope.

From WBAL:

Democrat Christopher Van Hollen Jr. defeated retired military officer Chuck Floyd to win a second term representing the 8th Congressional District, covering parts of Montgomery and Prince George's counties. With 100 percent of precincts reporting, Van Hollen had 74 percent of the vote.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v294/RFPeachy/RFnetPeachy.jpg
Thanks WWFallon!

You can be disappointed, but you cannot walk away. This fight has just begun.

canofsoup15

11-03-2004, 04:34 PM

But my faith in this country was shaken yesterday. I think we expressed that we are not going to hold republican leaders accountable for failures of any kind. We endorsed a campaign that was princibly waged through demonization of the opposition rather than honest debate of issues. We accepted that our fears could be manipulated for political gain by leaders. I hope I'm wrong, and I mean no personal offence to people who disagree with me, but I can't help feeling that America lost yesterday.

I think you might be overreacting a tad, but I think I know where you're coming from. I just think that saying that (since we elected Bush) we agree with his making of mistakes, it quite a leap from what it actually is. Yes, the majority of the country agrees that Bush should be president, but to say that they completely ignored his problems is a bold statement. I think it was more of a uncertainty issue rather than a fear or ignorance issue. I will admit that I do not know (to the full extent) the level of stupidity in the heartland and the mid-west, where the Bush supporters are located, but I do not think they can be that incredibly stupid. At least I hope not.

Also, you have to take into account that most of those mid-western states don't have the amount of people that states like Florida and Texas have, so while it may look like he has a huge area of supporters, alot of that can be farmland.

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 All I need is your head on stake.</marquee>

Bestinshow

11-03-2004, 04:40 PM

He had 4 million more supporters than Kerry did.

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TheMojoPin

11-03-2004, 04:42 PM

Conservatives in this country have demonstrated in the last 4 years they don't give a shit about their fellow Americans just because they vote differently than them...and they sure as hell don't give a flying fuck about anyone else in the world. And that's been abundantly reflected in the Bush administration.

This is funny, I have one mod busting my balls for making generalizations. While another mod is making generalizations about my post which is completely off the mark. I never said I didnt give a flying fuck about the rest of the world. I said I didn't give a flying fuck about Shroeder or Chirac. See the difference??? This forum is becoming so tiresome. You can unabashedly bash bush but I can't find fault with leaders that I personally don't like? Maybe its you who don't care for people that vote different than you. My dislike for these two scumbags has nothing to do with how I feel about anyone else.

I didn't make ANY generalizations about YOUR post. I used a point YOU made to spin off onto my own point. You didn't say it, I didn't say you said it...I said it myself. Honestly, get over yourself. I went off on a tangent to my own idea based in connection to something you brought up. It's a train of thought. I didn't accuse you of anything...I simply used a quote that helped reflect my larger point.

I said nothing even implying you couldn't criticize foreign leaders. Not that you actually did that...you only said you "despised" them. That, to me, is indicative of a larger problem I see looming for this country as a whole down the line.

And yes, I used the generalization of "conservatives" to basically mean "ALL CONSERVATIVES," politician or voter or otherwise. It basically stands. I did that on purpose. That reason, the fullscale alienation of most of our major allies, is because of the neo-con mindset that has settled upon the majority of conservatives in this country when it comes to countries other than America...and that is, to make it REALLY simple, that they don't matter at the end of the day.

And a lot of THAT extends from the neo-con tendancy to complete discount and downright loathe anyone in their own country who shares political opinions different from their own. And that is NOT to say that liberals don't do the same to conservatives. On the contrary, liberals are just as discriminatory and biased when it comes to their conservative contemporaries. But that does NOT extend, for the most part, to liberal feelings to the rest of the world. And yes, they can be WAY too wishy-washy at times when it comes to America dealing with other countries...but ultimately, they have a far better chance of making us some lasting alliances with the countries around the world that will shape the globe's future, or ensuring and strengething the ones we already have.

Sometimes people use generalizations for a reason. I had a point to make, and I wasn't trying to take a "shot" at anyone...I was trying to argue something I feel VERY strongly about, and it's a VERY real problem that I feel zero need to pussyfoot around. Modern conservatives, for the most part, are neo-xenophobes, and that mentality extends to and is supported by the Bush White House, and our country is going to pay the price for it down the line.

It's just a repeat of the same shortsightedness that fucked us over when it came to Afghanistan and Iraq. And odds are, it WON'T have anything to do with guns and bombs when it comes to Europe. A fully-functioning European Union could make our money worthless in no time flat. And if the current "fuck those European pricks" mentality continues, they could very easily shut us out just out of spite for continued diplomatic slights.

<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=TheMojoPin">
1979 <> "You can tell some lies about the good times we've had, but I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

Yerdaddy

11-03-2004, 04:46 PM

Damn Mojo, I really expected more from you. Do you honestly think the EU would turn their backs on us??

C'mon, lay off the double cappuccino's and chill out.

There may be 1 or 2 countries that would possibly put tarrifs on our exports, but to have the EU, as a body, fuck us...

Ain't happinin', Bro. Not now, not ever!
See my comment about the international cooperative competition that spurred the technological and economic revolution and left the Soviet Union behind. That is the kind of complex set of principles that led us to be the only remaining superpower. Replacing those principles with the principles of dominance and hegemony will alienate and threaten our allies and cause us to lose what has made us great in this century. The EU, Japan, Russia, and our other allies in the Middle East, Asia and Latin America will respond JUST LIKE WE WOULD and work to contain us. They will not directly threaten us, with sanctions or certainly not militarily, but they will work to isolate us - using bilateral trade agreements to cut us off from markets rather than cooperating with us to open markets multilaterally. They will compete with the intention of weakening us rather than the mutually beneficial competition advanced during the Cold War. This antagonism, that the Bush administration initiated through the strategy document I mentioned previously and through its arrogant diplomacy regarding the Iraq War, will also undermine our cooperative relationships involving the sharing of intelligence in the war on terrorism and other global security issues. It is not a simple matter of imposing sanctions on us or not. It's a matter of preserving or abandoning the complex international economic and security systems that were developed under our own leadership and with our own interests in mind. The EU is more united than it was ever expected to be. It is also threatened by our current posturing.

<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=bonedaddy5">
Fuck it from behind.

This message was edited by Yerdaddy on 11-3-04 @ 8:46 PM

HBox

11-03-2004, 04:48 PM

I think I found a solution:

http://yglesias.typepad.com/matthew/images/unknown.jpg

http://www.myimgs.com/random/hbox/sig

Reephdweller

11-03-2004, 04:56 PM

I thought it was Jesusville.

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Yerdaddy

11-03-2004, 05:00 PM

I think you might be overreacting a tad, but I think I know where you're coming from. I just think that saying that (since we elected Bush) we agree with his making of mistakes, it quite a leap from what it actually is. Yes, the majority of the country agrees that Bush should be president, but to say that they completely ignored his problems is a bold statement. I think it was more of a uncertainty issue rather than a fear or ignorance issue. I will admit that I do not know (to the full extent) the level of stupidity in the heartland and the mid-west, where the Bush supporters are located, but I do not think they can be that incredibly stupid. At least I hope not.

If we had split our votes and elected a democratic majority of Congress then I would have a different view. Americans have traditionally tended away from having one party dominating the branches of government. But with republicans in charge of all three branches of government what accountability is there for the administration? What are the structural safeguards for deterring more of the administration's failures in Iraq? I can't think of any outside of what the public was willing to put in place through the electoral process last night. The administration doesn't even have to respond to the will of republican voters. They learned last night that their constituents aren't going to switch to democrats when major mistakes are made - not even congressionally. It's a flaw in our thumbs up or down electoral system, but traditionally disapproval with a president translates to voting the opposition into Congress. That didn't happen, so it was unfortunately just a big thumbs up for everything over the last four years.

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Fuck it from behind.

TheMojoPin

11-03-2004, 05:02 PM

"What's THIS place, BIBLEVANIA?!?"

http://www.interactive.org/gfx/iaa-5/photo_2.jpg

<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=TheMojoPin">
1979 <> "You can tell some lies about the good times we've had, but I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

HBox

11-03-2004, 05:06 PM

I don't want to go off calling some of the Bush voters stupid, but I'm gonna anyway: With the state of the war on terror, Iraq, the economy, health care and our stretched out military, for 21% of voters to say that their biggest issue when voting is "moral values" is just fucking stupid. There are plenty of reasons I can understand why people wouldn't vote for Kerry and vote for Bush, but I just cannot understand how, with the state of this country and the world, that THAT is the biggest issue on their minds. I just can't.

http://www.myimgs.com/random/hbox/sig

Hottub

11-03-2004, 05:08 PM

The EU is more united than it was ever expected to be. It is also threatened by our current posturing.

This is true, to a point. The main reason they are united is not a sence of unity at all. There are still centuries of resentment steeping in Europe.
I have been to Ireland, Portugal, and Spain. The main reason they are toeing the line is to get much-needed funds to help rebuild their highway and byways, and bail out their debts to foreign lenders. (read USA)

Yes, I have, indeed, travelled on the N-17!! Before and after.

To quote Thomas Jefferson (please people, know which proper noun to replace. I already got reamed on my "Dogma's of a quit past quote!!. which by the way, was Fucking brilliant!)

"Slavery is like holding a wolf by it's ears.You may not like it... but you dare not let go."

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This message was edited by Hottub on 11-3-04 @ 9:16 PM

TheMojoPin

11-03-2004, 05:09 PM

Dude, don't sleep through history class!

The "silent majority" of traditionally conservative voters have been around since WW2. And it typically takes "moral issues" to roust them from their slumber, and you get them to the polls, they ALWAYS vote Republican. Getting the gay marriage issue this "important" was a stroke of genius for the right, intentional or not.

<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=TheMojoPin">
1979 <> "You can tell some lies about the good times we've had, but I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

HBox

11-03-2004, 05:13 PM

I finally saw the Daily Show election special before. I was too busy watching the real news last night. And the way Jon Stewart was deteriorating before my very eyes throughout that show as he realized what was happening is exactly what I was going through last night. It was a funny episode too. I probably should have watched it last night. What I did to myself watching all night long long after I knew what was going to happen I think can be classified as masochism.

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Tenbatsuzen

11-03-2004, 05:21 PM

LordJezo

11-03-2004, 05:28 PM

County by county map of the election.. look at all that red!!

http://images.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/elections2004/_images/2004countymap2.gif

------------------------
I KISS YOU!

HBox

11-03-2004, 05:31 PM

Didn't we establish after last night that most of the exit polls were a bunch of horseshit, that they were all fucked up?

Point taken. But its still pretty clear what happened last night. Look at all the gay marriage votes. Look at the new Senators from Oklahoma and South Carolina(I know, those are very red states, but still). They wear their intolerance as a badge of honor.

And, just to be clear, I wasn't trying to bash Bush supporters. 19% of those moral values voters voted for Kerry. They were no better.

http://www.myimgs.com/random/hbox/sig

Tenbatsuzen

11-03-2004, 05:33 PM

The vote to ban gay marriage sickens me.

Christ, with all the talking I do, pro-choice, stem cell, OK with gay marriage, am I really a republican?

Someone hold me.

<center><img src="http://s95227862.onlinehome.us/sigs/chadsig1.jpg"></center>

HBox

11-03-2004, 05:34 PM

http://images.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/elections2004/_images/2004countymap2.gif

And I thought Bush's base was evangelicals! It's actually open, empty space!

BTW, am I the only one noticing the blue creeping in from the Mexican border? Uh oh!!!!!!!

http://www.myimgs.com/random/hbox/sig

This message was edited by HBox on 11-3-04 @ 9:36 PM

LordJezo

11-03-2004, 05:38 PM

HBox

11-03-2004, 05:41 PM

Makes me proud

That's a really fucked up thing to be proud of. Do you go to hospitals and watch gay people unable to visit their partner and cry tears of joy?

http://www.myimgs.com/random/hbox/sig

Tenbatsuzen

11-03-2004, 05:44 PM

The vote to ban gay marriage sickens me.

Makes me proud the American people are fed up with the left wing liberal slime that was being thrown at them.

Traditional values are still holding firm and the left can only squirm.

------------------------
I KISS YOU!

Um, go back and re-read my post.

<img src="http://www.freewebtown.com/campfire/__hr_Just+Gigantic.jpg">

Just for the hell of it, since the some say we're nothing but gigantic boobs.

<center><img src="http://s95227862.onlinehome.us/sigs/chadsig1.jpg"></center>

Yerdaddy

11-03-2004, 05:47 PM

Can someone show me the left wing version of this horse shit on this board?:

Makes me proud the American people are fed up with the left wing liberal slime that was being thrown at them.

Traditional values are still holding firm and the left can only squirm.

<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=bonedaddy5">
Fuck it from behind.

Hottub

11-03-2004, 05:48 PM

. 19% of those moral values voters voted for Kerry.

100 -19 =

"anybody??"

<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v381/artemisentreri/hottub.gif" border=0 align=right>

"Ahh, Beer. The cause of, and answer to all of life's problems"
Big A.S.S.#22127
The Cruising Vessel (http://www.silentpix.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=Myalbums&file=thumbnails&album=41)

Heather 8

11-03-2004, 05:49 PM

The vote to ban gay marriage sickens me.

Christ, with all the talking I do, pro-choice, stem cell, OK with gay marriage, am I really a republican?

Someone hold me.

*holds arms open*

Come, embrace the dark side.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v294/RFPeachy/RFnetPeachy.jpg
Thanks WWFallon!

You can be disappointed, but you cannot walk away. This fight has just begun.

Reephdweller

11-03-2004, 06:10 PM

Attorney General John Ashcroft 'plans to submit his resignation to Bush in the next several days'...

I guess all is not bad news afterall.

<center><IMG SRC="http://www.chaoticconcepts.com/randomizer/random.php?uid=3">
Reefy's website... (http://www.osirusonline.com/)</center>

<center>Check out The Ron and Fez Show Logs...UPDATED!!!!! (http://www.osirusonline.com/ronfez.htm)</center>
<marquee behavior=alternate bgcolor="#FFFFFF">Right now you could care less about me...
but soon enough you will care, by the time I'm done</marquee>

Tenbatsuzen

11-03-2004, 06:15 PM

*holds arms open*

Come, embrace the dark side.

I just kicked a homeless guy and told him to get a job.

<center><img src="http://s95227862.onlinehome.us/sigs/chadsig1.jpg"></center>

mdr55

11-03-2004, 06:18 PM

*holds arms open*

Come, embrace the dark side.

I just kicked a homeless guy and told him to get a job.

You should have told him to get an education. It solves everything.

Heather 8

11-03-2004, 06:20 PM

Dude... total self-c-block.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v294/RFPeachy/RFnetPeachy.jpg
Thanks WWFallon!

You can be disappointed, but you cannot walk away. This fight has just begun.

smeagol

11-03-2004, 06:23 PM

ah, what a great country. The freedom for all you ill-tempered Bush bashers to continue to spew your hate filled vitriole and pathetic rationalizations. So much here sounds so petty and resounds with enough negative energy to...oh nevermind *yawn*

Have at it if you must, but may I suggest:

Get over it.

Who is this man, GW Bush? A stand-up guy, is what he is.

Who is this man, JF Kerry? I tried, I asked but still I never did see or hear who this man is.

It really is as simple as that, and America has spoken out loud and clear in agreement.

President GW Bush continues to have my trust and goodwill.

And goodbye and good luck to you JF Kerry.
I said good DAY, sir!

What a great day this is! What a country!

YES!!!

Dudeman

11-03-2004, 06:35 PM

It is now official. Stupid people (ie the majority) vote Bush/ Republican; smart people vote Kerry/ Democrat:

VOTE BY EDUCATION

BUSH KERRY

H.S. Graduate
52% 47%

Some College
54% 46%

Postgrad Study
44% 55%

Plato was right. Democracy (while it insures against a tyrant) will drag government down to the masses (dumb people.)

-I'll log off now, and listen to your
response.-

Ndugu

11-03-2004, 06:39 PM

i used to have the plato fun factory, but the donuts i made didnt taste that good, i still dont see why plato has to be brought into this, FUN FOR ALL!

"What are you liberals, on dope?"

Ndugu

11-03-2004, 06:44 PM

and also there is a difference between being educated and being intelligent, the modern college student is inherently liberal, do to the opinions forced upon them by the "lefty" professors, and i also take offense to the generalization that all republicans are dumb, i wouldnt go around calling all democrats pussy tree hugging queers

"What are you liberals, on dope?"

canofsoup15

11-03-2004, 06:51 PM

It is now official. Stupid people (ie the majority) vote Bush/ Republican; smart people vote Kerry/ Democrat:

This is one of the dumbest things I've heard this entire election, from various sources as well. First of all, the statistics contradict what you say because those with some college supported Bush more than those with no college. Second, you cannot measure intelligence by someones own opinion or belief structure, and especially through their years of education.

Einstein failed math in high school and didn't go to college.

<img src=http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v124/Canofsoup15/Sigs/ERUZIES1.gif>

<marquee behavior=alternate>
I got the glass, I got the steel. I got the love to hate.
 All I need is your head on stake.</marquee>

TheMojoPin

11-03-2004, 07:21 PM

Have at it if you must, but may I suggest:

Get over it.

What a ridiculous suggestion, even if it was tongue-in-cheek.

<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=TheMojoPin">
1979 <> "You can tell some lies about the good times we've had, but I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

TheMojoPin

11-03-2004, 07:23 PM

It is now official. Stupid people (ie the majority) vote Bush/ Republican; smart people vote Kerry/ Democrat:

So "some college" is dumb?

Well, color me retarded!

Disgustingly arrogant.

<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=TheMojoPin">
1979 <> "You can tell some lies about the good times we've had, but I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

reeshy

11-03-2004, 07:28 PM

OK:

Bush won

Kerry lost

Move along now...there's nothing to see here now...go home!!!!

[center]<IMG SRC="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=reeshy">
[center]

Tenbatsuzen

11-03-2004, 07:29 PM

It is now official. Stupid people (ie the majority) vote Bush/ Republican; smart people vote Kerry/ Democrat:

VOTE BY EDUCATION

FLAWED EXIT POLL DATA, GENIUS!!!

<center><img src="http://s95227862.onlinehome.us/sigs/chadsig1.jpg"></center>

GodsFavoriteMan

11-03-2004, 08:40 PM

and also there is a difference between being educated and being intelligent, the modern college student is inherently liberal, do to the opinions forced upon them by the "lefty" professors,

Does anyone really believe that? I mean I have had more than my share of Republican professors (two economics and one Business Law--they actually stated their politics, I've only had one openly liberal professor and that was in Biology). Does that mean that despite everything I've experienced, all the decisions I've made, what I've learned from my parents, and what I've actually seen all goes down the drain because a few professors are Republican? The only liberal ideal my Biology professor shoved down our throats was Evolution. And while I'm on that topic I live in a Red state, and I work and go to school with many of these Republicans who vote for moral values or whoever is closer to Jesus, and they are the vast majority of the Republicans I have met. Try coming down here to Tennessee some time, go to a church while visiting, see how hypocritical they are. It's the reason I stopped going, I still consider myself a Christian, but I can't handle these short sighted, narrow minded dicks.

The last place I want politics fed to me is in Church, give what is due to Caeser to Caeser, and give what is due to God to God. That's a paraphrase, but it's in the bible, Jesus said it, even he believed in the seperation of Church and State.

Holy Shit, what a rant.

<img src="http://home.comcast.net/~stan_ferguson/goodluvin_copy.jpg">

IrishAlkey

11-03-2004, 11:51 PM

Fuck, yeah!

Kill me before the red states do...

<center><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v381/artemisentreri/alkey.gif"></center>

Yerdaddy

11-04-2004, 02:28 AM

<a href="http://www.theonion.com/" target="_blank">God Puts His Tool Back Into Office</a>

<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=bonedaddy5">
Fuck it from behind.

A.J.

11-04-2004, 04:14 AM

Look on the bright side, now we've got 4 more years of Jenna to look forward to!

And Barbara isn't too shabby either. Looks like she could cut glass.

http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20041103/i/r308466963.jpg

<img src=http://img40.photobucket.com/albums/v124/Canofsoup15/Sigs/AJinDC-Sig.jpg>

A Skidmark/canofsoup15 production.

Red Sox Nation

Mike Teacher

11-04-2004, 04:16 AM

Turkeys Done!

<IMG SRC="http://members.aol.com/miketeachr/esig">

Furtherman

11-04-2004, 06:56 AM

"PARIS - European allies alienated by President Bush (news - web sites)'s first four years in power offered Wednesday to let bygones be bygones, saying they want to work with the new administration and seeking, right from Day 1, to get the new White House to listen more to overseas opinion."

New administration? Meet the new administration, same as the old administration.

Traditional values are still holding firm and the left can only squirm.

No, the left and everyone else in America can stand firm - with no movement forward. No progress. No new enterprises.

If anything, we've fallen backwards, while the rest of the world moves on.

<IMG SRC="http://www.chaoticconcepts.com/randomizer/random.php?uid=7">
...with thanks to JustJon

curtoid

11-04-2004, 06:58 AM

Of the 114 million people who voted in this last election, almost 23 million people put "morals" as a top reason. About 1/5 of the total voters.

Of that, almost 5 million actually voted for Kerry - believing he had higher morals than the President.

So, what we are left with is not quite 18 million George Bush voters who put morality above the economy, health care, the environment, the war in iraq, terrorism, social security and other tangable issues. That's still less than only one-third of those who voted for for Bush.

Yes it was an important factor in a close election, but it should not be considered a mandate.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/curtoid/dailymirror.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/curtoid/22.jpg
"One of our normal friends." - RB

This message was edited by curtoid on 11-4-04 @ 11:00 AM

curtoid

11-04-2004, 06:59 AM

crap

This message was edited by curtoid on 11-4-04 @ 10:59 AM

Tenbatsuzen

11-04-2004, 07:22 AM

Of the 114 million people who voted in this last election, almost 23 million people put "morals" as a top reason. About 1/5 of the total voters.

Of that, almost 5 million actually voted for Kerry - believing he had higher morals than the President.

So, what we are left with is not quite 18 million George Bush voters who put morality above the economy, health care, the environment, the war in iraq, terrorism, social security and other tangable issues. That's still less than only one-third of those who voted for for Bush.

Yes it was an important factor in a close election, but it should not be considered a mandate.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/curtoid/dailymirror.jpg

Curtoid, as we've established several times in this thread, any of that data about ethnicity, employment, what voters thought was important, etc. came from EXIT POLL DATA - which I'm sure many of the Kerry people can tell you 48 hours later - was EXTREMELY flawed.

<center><img src="http://s95227862.onlinehome.us/sigs/chadsig1.jpg"></center>

silera

11-04-2004, 07:38 AM

From what I've read, the exit poll data was off about 2%-5%. That's hardly extreme.

<center>http://hometown.aol.com/bonedaddy5/images/silerass.jpg
AND WHAT?</center>

FUNKMAN

11-04-2004, 07:41 AM

the exit poll data was off about 2%-5%

that's about as much as my poll gets off... man, marriage is tough

<img src="http://img18.photobucket.com/albums/v53/monster6sixty6/guests/fm_sig.jpg">

curtoid

11-04-2004, 07:46 AM

Curtoid, as we've established several times in this thread, any of that data about ethnicity, employment, what voters thought was important, etc. came from EXIT POLL DATA - which I'm sure many of the Kerry people can tell you 48 hours later - was EXTREMELY flawed.

The early exit data, everyone admits, was flawed - and I was not one of those who jumped on the "woo! hoo! we won!" bandwagon at 3pm on Tuesday. The later exit data, which everyone is pointing to (especially the GOP and their talk of mandates because of moral issues cited in those exit polls) is universally accepted. There is a consistency among the different pollers as well.

Exit polls showed that 22 percent of voters named "moral values" as the most important issue to them-ranking it higher than the economy and the Iraq war. Of them, 79 percent voted for President Bush. In Ohio, 24 percent of those surveyed identified themselves as "white evangelical/born-again Christians."

Newsweek - Updated: 10:56 a.m. ET Nov. 4, 2004 (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6401635/site/newsweek/)

Again - I am just putting my perspective on this kind of information; yes, it was more than likely the slight edge needed in a tight election, but it is hardly a majority of the country - it wasn't even the majority of people who voted for Dubya.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/curtoid/22.jpg
"One of our normal friends." - RB

This message was edited by curtoid on 11-4-04 @ 11:49 AM

Tazz

11-04-2004, 07:51 AM

Guess You Can't Run to Canada (http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/11/03/canada.us.reut/index.html)

There goes that idea that I see hippies on TV talking about.

But statistics show a gradual decline in U.S. citizens coming to work and live in Canada, ]which has an ailing health care system and relatively high levels of personal taxation..

Is that what you people really want? Because that's what Kerry wanted.

<img src=http://tazz1376.homestead.com/files/homersig.gif>

curtoid

11-04-2004, 08:01 AM

Is that what you people really want? Because that's what Kerry wanted.

No - we'd much rather have less health coverage security if we switch jobs, have Merck continue to get wealthier and wealthier, play the "what drugs can I afford to do without this month?" game, watch friends who are stage 4 cancer patients mount insane credit card debts and have our aging parents denied access to hospitals because their HMOs are only good at hospitals less conveninet to them.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/curtoid/22.jpg
"One of our normal friends." - RB

silera

11-04-2004, 08:07 AM

But statistics show a gradual decline in U.S. citizens coming to work and live in Canada, which has an ailing health care system and relatively high levels of personal taxation..

Is that what you people really want? Because that's what Kerry wanted.

Please stop making inflammatory and juvenile statements like that.

It does no good.

You can argue that Kerry's healthcare system wouldn't work, but to say that he wanted to create an ailing healthcare system and high levels of taxation is an outright lie.

Was he overextending himself? Did he have a vision of things that he couldn't complete? Was he possibly wrong? Sure, maybe, who knows.

Guess what? All of the above can be said for Bush as well.

<center>http://hometown.aol.com/bonedaddy5/images/silerass.jpg
AND WHAT?</center>

This message was edited by silera on 11-4-04 @ 12:08 PM

Tazz

11-04-2004, 08:26 AM

You can argue that Kerry's healthcare system wouldn't work, but to say that he wanted to create an ailing healthcare system and high levels of taxation is an outright lie.

I meant that it wouldn't work and we'd have to pay for it. Didn't mean for it to sound like I implied that he would create something to purposely fail.

<img src=http://tazz1376.homestead.com/files/homersig.gif>

Bestinshow

11-04-2004, 09:12 AM

Can someone show me the left wing version of this horse shit on this board?:

Conservatives in this country have demonstrated in the last 4 years they don't give a shit about their fellow Americans just because they vote differently than them...and they sure as hell don't give a flying fuck about anyone else in the world. And that's been abundantly reflected in the Bush administration

It is now official. Stupid people (ie the majority) vote Bush/ Republican; smart people vote Kerry/ Democrat:

<img src=http://publish.hometown.aol.com/gpigking/myhomepage/xxbis.gif?mtbrand=aol_us>
<marquee>I am not part of any percentage. I am the Bestinshow<marquee>
[center]Kiss a Doberman Today

TheMojoPin

11-04-2004, 09:17 AM

Unless you can show that my quote is somehow WRONG, then quit presenting it like it's some kind of fallacy.

Just because you don't like it doesn't make it not a reality.

That's my main reason for not voting for Bush, and I'm sticking to it.

Am I wrong?

Up until this point, you've presented zero to counter it...you've just complained that it was said.

Neo-cons = xenophobes, and their policies are an extension of that, and it's gonna work out horribly for America down the line.

I'm using the generalization because I honestly feel it's true. Of course there are going to be a few exceptions, but it's my honest opinion, that the MAJORITY of neo-cons are alarmist, over-reactionary xenophobes more concerned with just convincing themselves they're right NOW as opposed to thinking in the long term.

I hope I'm proved wrong, but as of right now, that's 100% what I believe, based on what I've seen and heard over and over again countless times in the last three years since 9/11.

You're trying to present my opinion as some kind of cheap shot, and it's not. It's something I'm deathly afraid of, and I'm getting sick of you belittling that fear just because you don't like to hear it.

<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=TheMojoPin">
1979 <> "You can tell some lies about the good times we've had, but I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 11-4-04 @ 1:21 PM

HBox

11-04-2004, 09:26 AM

Elizabeth Edwards has breast cancer. (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6408029/)

This must be the best week of John Edwards' life.

http://www.myimgs.com/random/hbox/sig

Ndugu

11-04-2004, 09:28 AM

can you specify what you are so afraid of, what possibly could geroge bush do in four years to make you "afraid", and what awful things has he done to you already

"What are you liberals, on dope?"

Bestinshow

11-04-2004, 09:29 AM

Because your opinion and I'm sure others here is pandering to all of Europe and the UN is the way to go, that makes it athoratative? Who makes your opinion fact? Because I have more faith in our government to make descisions than kissing anyone's ass (As do many "NEO" conservatives as you like throw the term around) doesn't make it wrong nor does it mean we "don't give a fuck about anyone else" as you put it. We have the right to our opinion as do you. It is the typical arrogance of the left to say that only they know whats good for us and everyone else is stupid.

<img src=http://publish.hometown.aol.com/gpigking/myhomepage/xxbis.gif?mtbrand=aol_us>
<marquee>I am not part of any percentage. I am the Bestinshow<marquee>
[center]Kiss a Doberman Today

TheMojoPin

11-04-2004, 09:36 AM

Where the hell did I say that I was definitely right, and everyone else should follow my opinion?!?! You pulled that completely out of thin air. I didn't even come close to doing what you're accusing me of. I posted what I MYSELF am 100% sure in right now. NOWHERE did say my ideas are the final say on ANYTHING.

If you're going to continue accusing me of things I didn't say, quote them, right now. If you can't, quit slinging spin. It's insulting. I stated VERY CLEARLY that what I was postng was just and ONLY my opinion, and that I was getting frustrated that you were continually singling out my posts as examples of "unjustified liberal mudslinging." THAT'S IT. Everything else you just ranted on in your last post on you literally made up. Don't accuse me of things I'm not even coming close to doing. I didn't say everyone else was definitely wrong, or that anyone was "stupid." If what you just posted is directed at ME, you're flat-out lying, and it's pissing me off. I offered for ANYONE to prove me wrong. Why is NOBODY doing that, and instead accusing me of insulting other people?

Ndugu, I already explained twice in this thread why I think the current administration's foreign policies are going to harm us greatly in the future, and why I'm afraid. If you don't want to read them, it's not my problem.

<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=TheMojoPin">
1979 <> "You can tell some lies about the good times we've had, but I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 11-4-04 @ 1:42 PM

SatCam

11-04-2004, 09:41 AM

Elizabeth Edwards has breast cancer.

Ouch.

<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/SatCam/sig90_general_political.jpg" align="right" alt="LAL!" /><a href="http://www.satelitecam.tk">Ron and Fez Drops and Bits</a>
50%[color=white]

Bestinshow

11-04-2004, 09:42 AM

TheMojoPin

11-04-2004, 09:51 AM

Insulting??????Its insulting that you continuosly insist that conservatives don't give a shit about anyone else. Because its your opinion doesnt give you the right to insult anyone. Thats like me saying that liberals are bunch of no ball pussys , but thats my opinion. If I said that, how would that fly?

PROVE MY OPINIONS WRONG.

I specified my point. I didn't just drop some cheap shot and run. I specified that neo-cons do NOT give a shit AT ALL about anyone else in this country that votes differently from them, thanks to the widespread demonization of "liberals," and they clearly don't give a flying fuck about what anyone else in the world thinks of their foreign policies. That is my honest opinion, and nothing more. The last four years have demonstrated that clearly. The reactions of the hundreds of countries around the world have demonstrated that. Every time I turn on the radio to a political talk show, I feel my fears are justified. Every time I turn on Fox News, I feel my fears are justified. Most of the conservative posters make me feel my fears are justified.

Again, like I said, prove me wrong. Yelling at me saying you just don't like what I'm saying doesn't do that. I WANT to be proven wrong.

What, am I supposed to lie about why I didn't vote for Bush, or why I'm not a Republican, or why I honestly fear the neo-con movement in this country?

IT'S NOT A CHEAP SHOT. If you want to prove me wrong, feel free to do so, and humiliate me. But ONLY complaining about how something is said doesn't accomplish anything.

Look, say what you want about liberals and Democrats as a whole. If nobody counters it, live fully self-assured in your decision. That's the beauty of an opinion, be it ACTUALLY right or wrong.

<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=TheMojoPin">
1979 <> "You can tell some lies about the good times we've had, but I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 11-4-04 @ 2:00 PM

Bestinshow

11-04-2004, 10:05 AM

TheMojoPin

11-04-2004, 10:18 AM

Prove you wrong?????What a joke!!!!!!!How can you prove any such ridulous statement right or wrong? Its ironic how you talk of how the right demonizes the left while you wear your complete hatred for the right on your sleeve. And you can admit that or deny it, but its my opinion that you do.

Fine.

You're not gonna buy it, but I don't "hate" the "right." I don't hate ANYONE over their political beliefs...well, I'd hate Nazis, but we're not dealing with Nazis. I don't hate any AMERICANS over their political beliefs. And I didn't cast a broad stroke over "the right." I've been very careful to specifically use the term "neo-con," because THAT'S who my fear (Notice how I've said "fear" several times now, not "hate?") stems from. I feel neo-cons betray true, traditional conservative values, and they're in charge. They've twisted the Republican party as a whole, and have warped the mentalities and perspectives of many, if not most, conservative/Republican voters.

The neo-cons very actively spout a "we're always right"-agenda that's going to come back and bite us in the ass. Our actions in Iraq flew in the face of most of the other major nations in the world, most of whom WERE our allies. This was met with a very clear "who gives a fuck?"-mentality from the current administration, and tht wasn't a good choice.

Nowhere have I ever even implied we're supposed to "kiss the rest of the world's ass," or whatever you said above about Europe and the UN...but there has to be a middle ground between that and the current notion of not caring whether anyone else supports our foreign policies or not. It's inherrently dangerous...how can we expect to have successful FOREIGN policy if we're going to fly so blatantly in the face of the FOREIGN nations outside of the US?

Maybe this will make more sense...the way I view neo-cons shanghai-ing the Republican party? It's the equivalent of an extremist liberal group like MoveOn.org taking control of the Democrats and shaping practically ALL of their decision, policies and voters.

Look, in the end, you're only hearing what you want to hear. You accused me of things I didn't say, and opinions I don't have. There's really no way for me to counter that. I presented my points as clearly as possibly, but you insist on just viewing and cheapening them as some kind of "hate speech." How am I supposed to possibly counter being charged with things I never said? Am I supposed to lie about which major issues today drive my political opinions? This is simply how I see things. I could be wrong. I don't think I am. I hope I am.

<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=TheMojoPin">
1979 <> "You can tell some lies about the good times we've had, but I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 11-4-04 @ 2:20 PM

Yerdaddy

11-04-2004, 10:21 AM

You're comparing Mojo to Ndugu? What is wrong with you?

<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=bonedaddy5">
Fuck it from behind.

TheMojoPin

11-04-2004, 10:23 AM

He didn't say that.

<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=TheMojoPin">
1979 <> "You can tell some lies about the good times we've had, but I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

Yerdaddy

11-04-2004, 10:27 AM

Looks to me like that's exactly what he did. But OK. Game on.

<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=bonedaddy5">
Fuck it from behind.

TheMojoPin

11-04-2004, 10:29 AM

Well, I don't think so.

Bestinshow, I'll let you have the last word before I lock this thread. The election is over, there will be other issues down the line...this one is done for the time being.

<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=TheMojoPin">
1979 <> "You can tell some lies about the good times we've had, but I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

IrishAlkey

11-04-2004, 10:45 AM

I DON'T GIVE A SHIT IF THE REST OF THE WORLD THINKS WE'RE ASSHOLES BUT BY GOLLY JOE AND BILL WON'T BE GETTING MARRIED ON MY WATCH!

<center><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v381/artemisentreri/alkey.gif"></center>

Furtherman

11-04-2004, 10:46 AM

I'd like to have the last word.

Rumplestilskin!

<IMG SRC="http://www.chaoticconcepts.com/randomizer/random.php?uid=7">
...with thanks to JustJon

curtoid

11-04-2004, 10:50 AM

Word!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/curtoid/22.jpg
"One of our normal friends." - RB

Bestinshow

11-04-2004, 10:52 AM

No, actually, I wasn't comparing you to anyone. It was that one particular post that annoyed me. And it degenerated into a ridiculous argument. To be honest, I was surprised to see you make such a sweeping generalization.

Anyway, your last post clears it up just a little. I disaggree with you on your classification of the present base as neoconservative, but I understand your fear of having people at any extreme running the government. Radicals at either extreme do feel they know everything. But in my opinion the second term will be different. I believe relationships will be restored going forward. But thats my opinion. Only time will tell us who is right.

Okay, lock it up, its getting stuffy in here.

<img src=http://publish.hometown.aol.com/gpigking/myhomepage/xxbis.gif?mtbrand=aol_us>
<marquee>I am not part of any percentage. I am the Bestinshow<marquee>
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This message was edited by Bestinshow on 11-4-04 @ 2:54 PM