Tillman family criticize Army's friendly-fire prob [Archive]

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Doctor Manhattan

05-23-2005, 10:32 AM

<a href="http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/05/23/tilman.probe.ap/index.html" target="_blank">CNN version</a><a href="http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,157321,00.html" target="_blank">Fox News Version</a><a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7946201/" target="_blank">MSNBC Version</a><a href="http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=8572932" target="_blank">Reuters Version</a>If I remember correctly Ron and Fez said something about Government Lies in favor or Patriotic feelings. when this story broke last year. I belive that show was on <a href="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/viewmessages.cfm/CurrentPage/3/forum/46/Topic/41242/RequestTimeout/500" target="_blank">2004-04-23</a>Edit: the "e" was cut off from the title.<a href="http://www.xmradio.com/" target="_blank"><img src="http://members.cox.net/nicksporsche/StarGuy.jpg" border="0" /></a>

This message was edited by SKW on 5-23-05 @ 2:32 PM

HBox

05-23-2005, 10:42 AM

No prob, bob. 

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TheMojoPin

05-23-2005, 11:20 AM

This has actually been going around for a while, but nobody's really been listening to the family.The truth has zero bearing on the courage and integrity of Tillman himself...just how the government blatantly lied about his death and used it to their advantage as ghoulishly as possible.I don't know, I can't even muster the strength to get angry over the lies upon lies of this administration...it's just sad at this point.

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Bulldogcakes

05-23-2005, 05:56 PM

And which administration DIDN'T lie every time it suited their purposes?And in war, there's lots of gruesome shit going on daily. Lies are the least of the sins of War.  

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FUNKMAN

05-23-2005, 06:05 PM

friendly fire SUCKS BALLStough enough to find out your child got killed via the enemy, but extremely tough to find out it was by your ownthe parents are hurting and should eventually let this pass... the lie came after the fact

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Doctor Manhattan

05-23-2005, 06:14 PM

quote: And which administration DIDN'T lie every time it suited their purposes? How happy would you be if your loved one died and an administration (doesn't matter which party) used it to further their propaganda. Your loved one gave his/her life for an ad campaign? Your loved ones life is the equivalent of a "Be all you can be" commercial <a href="http://www.xmradio.com/" target="_blank"><img src="http://members.cox.net/nicksporsche/StarGuy.jpg" border="0" /></a>

This message was edited by SKW on 5-23-05 @ 10:15 PM

HBox

05-23-2005, 06:34 PM

As far as lies go, this wasn't even the first
time the Pentagon or whoever makes these decision jerked around the
family of a servicemember. Jessica Lynch?Every administration lies, but this one has gone above and beyond. 

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A.J.

05-24-2005, 01:46 AM

tough enough to find out your child got killed via the enemy, but extremely tough to find out it was by your ownHow do you think the poor bastard who pulled the trigger felt when he found out that he had killed his fellow soldiers?

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Doctor Manhattan

05-24-2005, 04:06 AM

I have no problem with "Friendly Fire"Of course it sucks, but so do a lot of aspects of war. It was an accident, and there is no shame in that. Tillman signed up knowing he was putting himself in danger, his family knew that as well.Bottom line: The government needs to respect the people who serve and the memories of those who give their lives to protect us.I understand the government lies, but they have gone way too far. The members of the armed forces are the most sacred asset to the government, people risk their lives and deserve better.

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FMJeff

05-24-2005, 06:53 AM

I don't know what pisses me off more, friendly fire or Funkman saying "friendly fire sucks balls". Way to tug at the heartstrings there, pal. I would've gone with "way not cool" but you're the wordsmith, not i.

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FUNKMAN

05-24-2005, 07:09 AM

I don't know what pisses me off more, friendly fire or Funkman saying "friendly fire sucks balls". Way to tug at the heartstrings there, pal. I would've gone with "way not cool" but you're the wordsmith, not i. been thinking about it but i'm just not getting you're reaction here...   i honestly feel that it can leave a 'much bitter' taste in a parents mouth that their child was killed by one of our own then by the enemy. i know it bugs the shit out of me no matter how many times someone says 'it's part of war'...

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Knowledged_one

05-24-2005, 07:18 AM

I used to work for the DOD on the F/A-18 E/F Super Hornet.  I worked in flight test and through testing we cleared alot of things that the military flew in sorties not only in Iraq but Afgan as well.We regularly heard updates from our pilots who got rotated to live combat.  They told us that friendly fire does occur and it is bad, sometimes it is intelligence's fault, sometimes it is our own soldiers fault, other times it is simply bad luck.  One story we got told that happens quite alot is:  A ground unit spots a nest of (insert name here), they radio in the coordinates from a GPS unit to a ground station which communicates the information through the MIDS system (Multiship ID) to an air ship above.  However, the GPS unit that they use to target had old batteries that had to be changed so instead of sending the what they think to be correct coordinates is instead there own coordinates because after replacing the batteries the GPS reset to their current location.  Now this is only one example of how through no specific action friendly fire occurs and there were many many more.  And covering up the story is bad enough but what in my opinion is worse is that we have people die all the time but only through celebrity do we hear about these things.  Pat Tillman would be embarrassed if he knew what was happening with him being a poster boy for recruitment - and he was embarrassed when he was alive at the attention he was getting.Lets not only concentrate on Pat Tillman but the close to 1800 men/women that have lost their life defending us - but make sure you tell bobo to grab some flags and burn them in their honor

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high fly

05-25-2005, 03:06 PM

quote: And which administration DIDN'T lie every time it suited their purposes?   Bulldog, most of us learned when we were tykes that "Just because little Johnny down the street jumps off the roof, it doesn't mean you have to."  quote:   And in war, there's lots of gruesome shit going on daily. Lies are the least of the sins of War.   Not when those lies CAUSE the war, and their result is: * Over 1,600 of our finest DEAD. * Thousands more having to live the rest of their lives shitting in a bag, or blind, or without limbs, or without internal organs, or with large chunks of their brains. * Hundreds of billions in national treasure, GONE. * Nearly all of the sympathy and support from the rest of the world we enjoyed after 9/11, GONE. * The credibility of the President, GONE. * Billions of dollars worth of military equipment, BROKEN OR USED UP. * Our attention and efforts in the Global War on Terror has been diverted and distracted, a cardinal sin in military strategy. Thus bin Laden, Mullah Omar & co. go free and al Qaeda gets stronger because of the amateurs running the war. * A subversion of the principle of viewing our military personnel as being so precious to us, that we only send them off to die when it is absolutely necessary and as a last resort.     " and they ask me why I drink" <img src="http://64.177.177.182/katylina/highflysig.jpg" border="0" /> Big ups to sex bomb baby Katylina (LHOOQ) for the sig! 

This message was edited by high fly on 5-25-05 @ 7:08 PM

high fly

05-25-2005, 03:23 PM

quote: The truth has zero bearing on the courage and integrity of Tillman himself...just how the government blatantly lied about his death and used it to their advantage as ghoulishly as possible. Of course you are correct, Mojo.I think it explains why they gave Tillman the Silver Star.The last I heard, the medal was given for what they think Tillman was thinking of doing when he was killed.No, the ones this whole fiasco who are disgraced in this affair are the heartless, gutless liars in the administration who are so cavalier with the lives of our military personnel. I don't know, I can't even muster the strength to get angry over the lies upon lies of this administration...it's just sad at this point. MOJO, those of us who sit at home comfortable, thanks to the sacrifices of men like Tillman, OWE him and all the others whose lives this administration has thrown away. The administration which came into office proclaiming it would "usher in a new era of personal responsibility" has failed miserably to do so.   I believe their blundering will cause Bush to be one of our most despised presidents, viscerally despised the way Nixon is. Bush has played right into the terrorist's hands and has assured that the terrorists will continue to grow stronger, thus costing more and more American lives to be lost unnecessarily. 

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A.J.

05-25-2005, 11:24 PM

because of the amateurs running the war.So who would be considered the "professionals"?

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LiquidCourage

05-31-2005, 03:55 PM

I've heard a few friendly fire stories that made me want to just kick someone in the asshole.

FUNKMAN

05-31-2005, 03:58 PM

I've heard a few friendly fire stories that made me want to just kick someone in the asshole. very funny! thanks for the chuckle but that's how it makes me feel too

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LiquidCourage

05-31-2005, 04:02 PM

I know of someone who had a bomb dropped on them cause some officer didn't want to wait 5 minutes for him to get off of the bridge they were going to blow...

high fly

06-02-2005, 02:50 PM

quote:  quote: because of the amateurs running the war.  So who would be considered the "professionals"?Thanks, AJ, for the 50 mph fastball, waist-high, right down the middle. "Professionals" would be those with combat experience.That eliminates Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Feith, Wurmser, Rice, Hadley, Cheney and Bush.  Were I king, there is one man out there who I would have running the GWOT and that is retired Marine General Al Gray.The man is a stone-cold killer, highly intelligent, creative and does not suck up the way a Hugh Shelton or a Tommy Franks do. 

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A.J.

06-02-2005, 11:57 PM

Wurmser"...DEAD!  Niedemeyer...DEAD!..."  Sorry I couldn't resist.And I don't recall Clinton, Les Aspin, John Deutsch, William Cohen or Sandy Berger (to name a few) having had any combat experience either.  But I digress.Was Al Gray the former Commandant who pissed off people when he suggested to his young Marines that they should wait to get married?  Because I happen to think he was right.  I like the idea of putting a Marine in charge because most of the time they are going to be the first ones on the ground.  That's why I was glad to see a Marine finally chosen to be CJCS -- General Peter Pace.  "You're not a suck up...you're a KILLER!"

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Recyclerz

10-18-2005, 01:12 PM

Commie Symp magazine The Nation claims Pat Tillman as its own:<a title="Pat Tillman, Our Hero" href="http://www.thenation.com/doc/20051024/zirin" target="_self">http://www.thenation.com/doc/20051024/zirin</a>I had seen the Sept. newspaper article referred to in the story at the time but I guess I didn't post it on here.   I thought the guy was a hero when he walked away from the NFL to sign up in the military even as I assumed he was probably a Red Stater.  The fact that he actually thought through the important stuff  makes his death even more tragic for me.  I guess this proves that you should automatically disbelieve anything that comes out of this Administration's propaganda machine (as if we needed more proof).

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high fly

10-19-2005, 06:39 AM

quoteBulldogcakes: And which administration DIDN'T lie every time it suited their purposes?When I was a kid, my mommy taught me a lesson that went something like, "Now son, just because little Johnny down the street jumps off the roof it doesn't mean you have to.What I've been wondering for some time now is why Tillman was given the Silver Star.Only thing I've heard is he got it because of what they believe he was thinking about doing.    " ...and they ask me why I drink" <img src="http://64.177.177.182/katylina/highflysig.jpg" border="0" /> Big ups to sex bomb baby Katylina (LHOOQ) for the sig!

This message was edited by high fly on 10-19-05 @ 10:48 AM

high fly

10-19-2005, 06:48 AM

quote:  quote: Wurmser  "...DEAD!  Niedemeyer...DEAD!..."  Sorry I couldn't resist.And I don't recall Clinton, Les Aspin, John Deutsch, William Cohen or Sandy Berger (to name a few) having had any combat experience either.  But I digress.   One difference between two of the Republicans is that former Bush administration officials Feith and Perle were fired from the Reagan and Nixon administrations for giving classified information to a foreign nation, but that didn't stand in the way of Bush 43 hiring them to positions where they would handle highly classified information. They also put one Michael ledeen on the payroll handling highly classified information, even though he was listed by the CIA as being "an agent of a foreign government." That permissiveness apparently has been extended to Rove and Libby.  quote:  Was Al Gray the former Commandant who pissed off people when he suggested to his young Marines that they should wait to get married?  Because I happen to think he was right.    Yes, and he was the driving force behind changing Marine Corps doctrine from attrition to maneuver warfare.  quote:  I like the idea of putting a Marine in charge because most of the time they are going to be the first ones on the ground.  That's why I was glad to see a Marine finally chosen to be CJCS -- General Peter Pace.  "You're not a suck up...you're a KILLER!" Gray is a stone-cold killer, like i said, as well as a very smart, innovative thinker.While the idea of having a Marine in charge is attractive, so far I don't see Pace as being the kind of fighting Marine Gray is.   " ...and they ask me why I drink" <img src="http://64.177.177.182/katylina/highflysig.jpg" border="0" /> Big ups to sex bomb baby Katylina (LHOOQ) for the sig!" ...and they ask me why I drink" Big ups to sex bomb baby Katylina (LHOOQ) for the sig!

This message was edited by high fly on 10-19-05 @ 11:21 AM

A.J.

10-19-2005, 11:24 PM

Welcome back high fly.

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