My black GF thinks I'm a racist. It's over.

[fezident]

I was called a "racist" by a black girl I've been dating since November.
We never talked about race. It actually never comes up. We're both damn near 40 and all that "mixed race couple" stuff has never even been mentioned. (although, when we were getting to know each other, she would say "once ya go black....")

We were talking about Obama and she keeps talking about how significant and culturally important it is that a black man might very well become president. She mentions it constantly. Every single day, she talks about "this is just amazing... when my parents & grandparents were growing up, they couldn't use the same water fountain... schools were segregated.... back of the bus... water fountains.... riots & beatings... etc etc. Now, in my lifetime, we might actually see a black man in the white house!!!"
She's gone off on this jag at least 2 dozen times.

Finally, I said "But that the hell does ANY of that have to do with electing him president in 2008?!"
To which she took offense.
I said "You've never ONCE mentioned that you thought he was qualified. I've never heard you come close to talking about a policy or a platform. You mention that he's black. And you mention water fountains and city buses but, you never once even mentioned that you truly believe he'd be an effective president!"

To which she replied "you wouldn't understand".


I saw Sheppard and Whoopi on The View have this EXACT argument with Hasslebeck, who, god bless 'er, was trying to make the same points that I'm making. Whoopi and Shari (?) were LITERALLY getting choked up... and immediately started talking about the back of the bus, the seperate water fountain, etc etc.
Hassleback would say "all that WAS true but, isn't it a form of racism to not vote for a white man TODAY because of incidents from 50 years ago?"
This was met with a chorus of "Awww, honey, you just don't understand, honey... all your life, politcians looked like YOU, now... we have one that looks like US!"

Which I think is incredibly (reverse) racist.
Voting for somebody because he "looks like 'us'"??!! Isn't that the very definition of "you people"?!!?


I said that to my chick, and she was ENRAGED and repeatedly screamed and cried that I'm a racist.

I then pointed out the obvious. "I've stated many times that I think Obama is qualified, you've never heard me say or do anything racist, and I've been sleeping with YOU for almost a year! The last thing I am is a racist!"

She then accused me using the "some of my best friends are black" defense, to which I replied "but some of my friends ARE black! Do you think I've hung out with them for 16 years just so I could use them as a defense in case I ever get accused of being a bigot?!"

etc etc etc.



I know I'm not covering any new ground here.
Everybody has stories like this.
But... I'm an articulate guy and I just can't seem to dial in just the right way to make my point that will make her understand where I'm comin' from. I feel like I've said all the obvious (and sincere) points and she still thinks I'm being less than genuine.


I know this is an unwinnable battle but, I'm open to your thoughts on this topic.


EDIT:
I should also mention that I auditioned for Justin Timberlakes band, and I made it fairly far into the process. I was then informed that he wanted a "black band so as to up his credibility". That's the exact wordage. I felt discriminated against. But I also felt that it was a step backward for black people too. None of us were being graded on our merits.
The affirmative action fight ensued. Yada yada yada.
She really seems to think that I'm a closed minded racist "like MOST white people".


EDIT TWO:
I didn't know which section to put this thread in but... whatever.

[Dude!]

mandingo relationships never work out well

[ANC]

Just tell her you wish Colin Powell was in the running...

[LaBoob]

Maybe you never will be able to get through to her, and maybe it's better she broke it off with you. You were right to engage in a discussion about the nature of her faith in Obama and right to point out a place where she could be wrong. If you can't discuss a topic like this with a person without her flipping out there might be things in your future that she's equally stubborn and overly-emotional about.

[grlNIN]

Is she from the South?

They're usually much more irrational and unintelligent.

[A.J.]

If you can't discuss a topic like this with a person without her flipping out there might be things in your future that she's equally stubborn and overly-emotional about.

She's a woman. There are always going to be things she's stubborn and overly-emotional about.

(I'm sorry -- I couldn't resist.)

[MisterSmith]

Maybe you never will be able to get through to her, and maybe it's better she broke it off with you. You were right to engage in a discussion about the nature of her faith in Obama and right to point out a place where she could be wrong. If you can't discuss a topic like this with a person without her flipping out there might be things in your future that she's equally stubborn and overly-emotional about.

Very well put, and I think you summed up what I was thinking better than I could.

It is a shame that she went off about something like that, but sometimes logic and emotions just don't mix.

[DolaMight]

but is it over?

[Doctor Z]

Chain your TV down.

[Dirtybird12]

Does she know you refer to her as your black gf ?

Do you introduce her to friends and family as your black gf ?

Does she refer to you as her white bf?

[MisterSmith]

Does she know you refer to her as your black gf ?

Do you introduce her to friends and family as your black gf ?

Does she refer to you as her white bf?

I am sure that is only being done as illustration for this thread/his post. If he said "It is over between me and Jane" and you don't know them personally, it could be very confusing. Her being Black is key to the issue at hand.

I am also sure that Fezident doesn't feel the need to drag his GF's real name into this.

[LaBoob]

She's a woman. There are always going to be things she's stubborn and overly-emotional about.

(I'm sorry -- I couldn't resist.)

Well I'm a woman and I never express emotion. NEVER.

[ozzie]

Is she from the South?

They're usually much more irrational and unintelligent.

This post is irrational and unintelligent. Are you from the North?

[A.J.]

Well I'm a woman and I never express emotion. NEVER.

"Fascinating."

http://www.heroestheseries.com/stills/zachary-quinto-spock-2.jpg

[grlNIN]

This post is irrational and unintelligent. Are you from the North?

Yes, i am actually against Thoreau's policies on civil disobedience.

Send 'em back swinging!

[DolaMight]

Is she from the South?

They're usually much more irrational and unintelligent.

This post is irrational and unintelligent. Are you from the North?

I think it was an attempt at a joke.

As a rule of thumb if you're gonna call an entire people stupid you should refrain from saying they're more unintelligent than one's self. Hey you! You're more stupid than me!

unless she meant northern blacks are much more irrational and unintelligent than southern blacks, then that would be just racist.

[midwestjeff]

You can never come back!

http://videodetective.com/photos/028/00119010_.jpg

[DarkHippie]

Yes, i am actually against Thoreau's policies on civil disobedience.

Send 'em back swinging!

Someone's on the American Transecendatal Movement chapter in Norton's Athology ;)

[grlNIN]

I meant the latter as a joke because the whole situation with the "black" girlfriend is a joke in itself.

I don't know anything about politics and i don't claim to but i have seen a lot of people stand behind Obama simply because of what it would mean to have a black man in the White House, as opposed to what it would mean to have someone who stands behind the issues he does in the White House.

[grlNIN]

Someone's on the American Transecendatal Movement chapter in Norton's Athology ;)

Summer III Philosophy actually.

[DarkHippie]

Summer III Philosophy actually.

I actually prefer Emerson to Thoreau, but that's just me.

[sailor]

i was expecting a steven lynch discussion.

[ahhdurr]

Let's talk penis size and girth units here... what're you sportin'?

We might just get to the bottom of this.

---------------------

You wouldn't understand is a great way to get emotional about something and shut down the discussion. And it's true - those emotional experiences that black people have had in their lives - I'll never have. I may have had similar experiences but never the experience of living in a predominantly white culture/power structure ? something.

You may be getting frustrated b/c you're attempting to bring the situation into the realm of distinct and discrete units of causality. Stop that. It's not good for you in many of these situations. Draw yourself a funny picture of the chaos god "Bojubu", hang that on your fridge and offer it small chaos concessions throughout today so that it leaves you alone.

She was fine right? Goddam.

---------------------

Did you meet Justin? Is he dreamy?:wub:

[ScottFromGA]

I was called a "racist" by a black girl I've been dating since November.
We never talked about race. It actually never comes up. We're both damn near 40 and all that "mixed race couple" stuff has never even been mentioned. (although, when we were getting to know each other, she would say "once ya go black....")

We were talking about Obama and she keeps talking about how significant and culturally important it is that a black man might very well become president. She mentions it constantly. Every single day, she talks about "this is just amazing... when my parents & grandparents were growing up, they couldn't use the same water fountain... schools were segregated.... back of the bus... water fountains.... riots & beatings... etc etc. Now, in my lifetime, we might actually see a black man in the white house!!!"
She's gone off on this jag at least 2 dozen times.

Finally, I said "But that the hell does ANY of that have to do with electing him president in 2008?!"
To which she took offense.
I said "You've never ONCE mentioned that you thought he was qualified. I've never heard you come close to talking about a policy or a platform. You mention that he's black. And you mention water fountains and city buses but, you never once even mentioned that you truly believe he'd be an effective president!"

To which she replied "you wouldn't understand".


I saw Sheppard and Whoopi on The View have this EXACT argument with Hasslebeck, who, god bless 'er, was trying to make the same points that I'm making. Whoopi and Shari (?) were LITERALLY getting choked up... and immediately started talking about the back of the bus, the seperate water fountain, etc etc.
Hassleback would say "all that WAS true but, isn't it a form of racism to not vote for a white man TODAY because of incidents from 50 years ago?"
This was met with a chorus of "Awww, honey, you just don't understand, honey... all your life, politcians looked like YOU, now... we have one that looks like US!"

Which I think is incredibly (reverse) racist.
Voting for somebody because he "looks like 'us'"??!! Isn't that the very definition of "you people"?!!?


I said that to my chick, and she was ENRAGED and repeatedly screamed and cried that I'm a racist.

I then pointed out the obvious. "I've stated many times that I think Obama is qualified, you've never heard me say or do anything racist, and I've been sleeping with YOU for almost a year! The last thing I am is a racist!"

She then accused me using the "some of my best friends are black" defense, to which I replied "but some of my friends ARE black! Do you think I've hung out with them for 16 years just so I could use them as a defense in case I ever get accused of being a bigot?!"

etc etc etc.



I know I'm not covering any new ground here.
Everybody has stories like this.
But... I'm an articulate guy and I just can't seem to dial in just the right way to make my point that will make her understand where I'm comin' from. I feel like I've said all the obvious (and sincere) points and she still thinks I'm being less than genuine.


I know this is an unwinnable battle but, I'm open to your thoughts on this topic.


EDIT:
I should also mention that I auditioned for Justin Timberlakes band, and I made it fairly far into the process. I was then informed that he wanted a "black band so as to up his credibility". That's the exact wordage. I felt discriminated against. But I also felt that it was a step backward for black people too. None of us were being graded on our merits.
The affirmative action fight ensued. Yada yada yada.
She really seems to think that I'm a closed minded racist "like MOST white people".


EDIT TWO:
I didn't know which section to put this thread in but... whatever.


well....try being from the South and say Obama isn't qualified.

its almost like this situation, but 10 times worse just cause I'm from the South.

[jonyrotn]

As a person who can not completely identifiy with either group, I'm gonna guess it has something to do with those same "unseen forces" that guide Jonny Depp in his selection of movie roles for instance..
There are some unexplainable powers at work within this universe that the human brain is just not capable of wrapping itself around..

If I were in your shoes I would try and orcastrate one last session of "break up sex"..Then when she's least expects it, stick your dry dick in her dry ass..Then tell everyone you know that she used to be a white man before her 2 year Brazilian "vacation"..That will make it easier to say goobye..


PS..You can thank me later for all the good advice..:wink:

[TheMojoPin]

I don't think you're a racist, but this:

I then pointed out the obvious. "I've stated many times that I think Obama is qualified, you've never heard me say or do anything racist, and I've been sleeping with YOU for almost a year! The last thing I am is a racist!"

probably wasn't the best thing to say in the situation.

If it escalaed this quickly, I'd assume there were other issues going with the relationship and this was just capped it off for her to break it off (not saying it was your fault, just that maybe the relationship as a whole was crumbling). If this came out of nowhere and everything was going great, tha makes her look a little bonkers and you're almost certainly better off getting out of that relationship.

[RoseBlood]

As a person who can not completely identifiy with either group, I'm gonna guess it has something to do with those same "unseen forces" that guide Jonny Depp in his selection of movie roles for instance..
There are some unexplainable powers at work within this universe that the human brain is just not capable of wrapping itself around..

If I were in your shoes I would try and orcastrate one last session of "break up sex"..Then when she's least expects it, stick your dry dick in her dry ass..Then tell everyone you know that she used to be a white man before her 2 year Brazilian "vacation"..That will make it easier to say goobye..


PS..You can thank me later for all the good advice..:wink:

Posts like this make me appreciate the fact this thread wasn't started in the "That's Life: The Forum" forum :lol:

[DarkHippie]

I wonder if she would vote for Alan Keyes

[fezident]

No... I don't introduce her as my "black girlfriend". As previously mentioned, it was necessary to illustrate that there are two different viewpoints in this relationship.




She happens to be from the south but, I don't notice her being particulary ignorant or inflexible or whatever. We are (were) a good fit.



Speaking of "good fit". My penis is a weapon. Pictures available on request. I don't give a shit.




Mentioning the "sex for almost a year" wasn't exactly I how I phrased it. I was trying to cut to the chase so my post wouldn't be any longer than it already was. It was more like "I tell you I love you.... I tell you that I think you're beautiful.... I laugh at your jokes.... the sex is amazing.... we've been best friends/significant others for almost a year... ummm... how on earth could you ever think that I have a racist bone in my body?!"





Yes.... it sure does appear that we are officially "done". Which is a shame. Somebody mentioned that this fight was probably indicative of a bigger problem but, I kinda disagree. I really & truly thought that everything was groovy. We actually LIKED our differences. (yes, that sounds corny.)




Yes, she was fine.




Kinda sucked that we broke up on my birthday. She was THAT passionate about it. Bummer.




Damn. I hope I don't have to go back to dating timid Canadian women and/or uptight Long Island Jews AGAIN.

[TheMojoPin]

If everything seemed fine and she flipped out over this and wanted to break it off, you're better off without her. That's not the recipe for any kind of healthy relationship that'll last.

[ahhdurr]

My penis is a weapon.

hehe.

[JerseyRich]

As a fellow bass player I would like to congratulate you on getting rid of this person that obviously was completely irrational.

I have no idea was bass playing has to do with it...

But move on bro.

[jonyrotn]

Posts like this make me appreciate the fact this thread wasn't started in the "That's Life: The Forum" forum :lol:Excuse me ROSEBLOOD, if that's even your real name? There is some really sound advice in this post and my advice to you is, don't show up for break up sex with a dry ass..Although I'm sure your bf is not the type of guy who would listen to advice from a message board but you're luckier then most..:wink:

[ChrisTheCop]

As a fellow bass player I would like to congratulate you on getting rid of this person that obviously was completely irrational.

I have no idea was bass playing has to do with it...

But move on bro.

Bass playing has everything to do with it!

So much easier to move on.

[ahhdurr]

I have no idea was bass playing has to do with it...


You guys are pros at finding the next place to flop and rummage around in a purse at 11 am wakeup when she's out at work.

I admire the solidarity.

[Tenbatsuzen]

I don't think one understands the term "racist".

The true form of being "racist" is having unmitigated hatred for an entire race of people, and nothing will change your mind. You see a persons skin color and you immediately assume all stereotypes and myths for their race.

A more proper term is being "prejudiced", "inappropriate", etc.



If the chick can't deal with your political differences, seriously, fuck her. She's obviously very passionate about it and someone who is willing to throw away a relationship over something as dumb as this ain't worth it.

[Alice S. Fuzzybutt]

http://www.eurweb.com/images/articles/200803/cleveland_brown(008-headshot-family-guy-med).JPG

Would she accept a plate of Rice Krispies treats as reparations?


(Sorry, it popped into my mind and I HAD to run with it.)

[GreatAmericanZero]

im the type of person who believes that as long as you don't see black people as "less of a person" than a white person, you are not racist. Everything else is fine.

i think every black person has the same exact potential, intellectually and physically as any white person. I think every person is a person, we are all human beings. So I don't think Im racist...everything else i do is acceptable.

So if i see a thugged out black person walking down a dark alley, am i nervous? Sure. But if i see Carl Winslow or Urkel looking black guys walking down the street I'm not. Im more nervous and prejudice because of "the look" or "the style" than the race. Id be nervous if i saw a skin head too.

Ive said the word "nigger".Ive used it to quote other people or songs, ive used it in old jokes ive heard and ive even said people were one. But I don't think that makes me racist. Because ive said people were "Fat pieces of shit" and I don't hate fat people...just ones that piss me off and I will use a hurtful insult to express it. Growing up in Long Island, Ive called many people "guinea mother fuckers"...or "he is such a fucking jew", its just the most insulting word to insult an individual, not a race

so as long as you don't "hate black people" you are not racist against black people. If you hate a few black people here and there..thats fine

[fezident]

G.A.Z. : I agree whole heartedly.

TENBATS: I feel ya but, I think the common usage of "racist" has replaced "prejudiced" nowadays. Kinda the way "Qtip" has replaced "cotton swab". Horrible example but... you know what I meant. And I agree that she's kinda sorta TRYING to make the bad outweigh the good. This is the most unreasonable she's ever been.

JERSEYRICH: I like where ya took this thread with the whole bass player angle. Some much needed levity to my otherwise crapass sitch. Bass players are typically nothing more than a lazy guitarist. And that's a mouthful!

JONYROTN: why should today be different than any other day? :wink:

girlNIN: my sentiments exactly.


I should probably learn how to do multiple quotations.

[TheMojoPin]

So if i see a thugged out black person walking down a dark alley, am i nervous? Sure. But if i see Carl Winslow or Urkel looking black guys walking down the street I'm not. Im more nervous and prejudice because of "the look" or "the style" than the race. Id be nervous if i saw a skin head too.

Couldn't agree more.

Ive said the word "nigger".Ive used it to quote other people or songs, ive used it in old jokes ive heard and ive even said people were one. But I don't think that makes me racist. Because ive said people were "Fat pieces of shit" and I don't hate fat people...just ones that piss me off and I will use a hurtful insult to express it. Growing up in Long Island, Ive called many people "guinea mother fuckers"...or "he is such a fucking jew", its just the most insulting word to insult an individual, not a race

Couldn't disagree more.

Such is life.

[GreatAmericanZero]

well to elaborate on "the nigger word", i always laugh when i hear people in the media say "why can't white people say the word?", because we can. We can say it as much as we want. We just can't say it in the media...we can't broadcast it. But I've said the word with complete computability in front of black people. That is because the context I use it in is not a racist context because I'm not a racist. And if i did say the word to the wrong person in the wrong way and I get my ass kicked...i could get the same from a fat guy that i call "Fatso". Offensive words exist, but they are only offensive in a certain context

[TheMojoPin]

I've just never felt the need to use a word like that in any kind of informal social setting. That's just me. Personally, I think people who do are being ignorant, insulting or just trying to be "shocking." Like I said, I just disagree with your line of thinking. Do what you want.

[Don Stugots]

what a crappy way to spend your birthday.

[GreatAmericanZero]

yeah im just a "word is a word" type of guy. Also, I think anything that people "take seriously" in the world is the perfect subject for mockery..especially something like a word, which really is just the vibrations of your vocal cords putting sounds together if you break it down. Its really quite comical to me that it matters

[TheMojoPin]

yeah im just a "word is a word" type of guy. Also, I think anything that people "take seriously" in the world is the perfect subject for mockery..especially something like a word, which really is just the vibrations of your vocal cords putting sounds together if you break it down. Its really quite comical to me that it matters

But they're not just words. Our species survives largely based on its ability to communicate with each other through spoken lanuages. If those are "just words," then everything is potenially "just words," and that strikes me as a complete cop-out of any kind of interpersonal responsibility.

[GreatAmericanZero]

But they're not just words. Our species survives largely based on its ability to communicate with each other through spoken lanuages. If those are "just words," then everything is potenially "just words," and that strikes me as a complete cop-out of any kind of interpersonal responsibility.

words matter in sentences and context. But to say that a word by itself and just itself is "bad" is funny to me.

[TheMojoPin]

words matter in sentences and context. But to say that a word by itself and just itself is "bad" is funny to me.

But some words are defined by negativity, just like there are words definied by being positive. It's always been like that. Dismissing "bad words" altogether doesn't make you some kind of maverick...it is, in my opinion, an arrogant and willfully ignorant decision. Our communication is such a powerful tool, and our choices dictate how it's used. I'm not saying it's impossible for you to try and use certain words lightly or just kidding around, but you can't just dimiss them as "just words."

GAZ, I'm talking aobut this in general and not trying to slam you. You don't sound like a bad guy at all..I just disagree on this.

[IamPixie]

how on earth could I have a racist bone in my body




That's what she said.

Seriously though, if you really had something special I don't think it's worth throwing it all way.

[TheMojoPin]

That's what she said.

Seriously though, if you really had something special I don't think it's worth throwing it all way.

I doubt they really did if she was so quick to destroy it all like she did.

Fezident, something tells me you saved yourself a bunch of headaches down the line.

[GreatAmericanZero]

But some words are defined by negativity, just like there are words definied by being positive. It's always been like that. Dismissing "bad words" altogether doesn't make you some kind of maverick...it is, in my opinion, an arrogant and willfully ignorant decision. Our communication is such a powerful tool, and our choices dictate how it's used. I'm not saying it's impossible for you to try and use certain words lightly or just kidding around, but you can't just dimiss them as "just words."

but there are ways you can use "the nigger word" that aren't offensive at all. First example i thought of is that "curb your enthusiasm" episode cuz they brought it up on R&F..but theres the Patti Smith song "Rock and Roll Nigger" and even if a professor was reading some historical quote where that word was used...its an offensive word in an inoffensive context. There probably will be a couple still offended, but i think those people are silly. But I can't see any word, existing by itself, as being "bad" or "good". Its just a word. Context is everything

[fezident]

Context really is everything here.
Here at work, whenever the guys who work for me disagree with each other, they say "oh, fuck your couch, nigga!". Obviously they got it from watching that Dave Chappelle sketch but... it kinda took on a harmless life of it's own. They say it all the time. About as often as we'd say "you've GOT to be kidding me!" ... or something like that.

It IS harmless and non-offensive because the guys are a tightly knit bunch. They get along. They know the intent. There's a complete absence of malice. In fact, it's the opposite. When they say "I'm going to the deli, y'all niggas want anything?"... nobody bats an eye.
But I used to flip the fuck out! I couldn't believe how freely they threw it around. But, they loved it.
Say that same shit to the wrong person who doesn't get the joke, and ya got yerself a fistfight, lawsuit, or both.

I truly believe that context is everything.


Having said all that, I never joked around and said it to my girl. I don't say nigga or nigger EVER. And even if I did, her and I weren't "there". That wasn't our relationship. The word still had a value to her. And it was a negative one at that.

[Death Metal Moe]

This "We gotta get one of our own in there no matter what" is the kind of mentality that had people cheering when OJ was aquitted even though any rational person knows he got away with murder.

Sorry, I say move on. You have a lot of good times but when it got to something deeper she freaked out? That's not good.

I mean I know she's a woman and they freak out whenever they want anyway but the race shit just can't be put up with bro.

[fezident]

Truth.

[IamPixie]

I doubt they really did if she was so quick to destroy it all like she did.

Fezident, something tells me you saved yourself a bunch of headaches down the line.

Sometimes people do extreme things to prove a point. Most likely she dumped him to prove how passionate she really felt about the subject. and based on fezidents first post he comes off a little nonchalant and condescending about a subject that obviously means a great deal to her.

It's not just about politics for many black people. not at all.

So if you claim you love her it shouldn't be that hard to realize that. But if you feel you were in the right and being right and logical is more important to you -then parting ways was for the best.

Plus she's a chick soo... yea.

[TheMojoPin]

but there are ways you can use "the nigger word" that aren't offensive at all. First example i thought of is that "curb your enthusiasm" episode cuz they brought it up on R&F..but theres the Patti Smith song "Rock and Roll Nigger" and even if a professor was reading some historical quote where that word was used...its an offensive word in an inoffensive context. There probably will be a couple still offended, but i think those people are silly. But I can't see any word, existing by itself, as being "bad" or "good". Its just a word. Context is everything

Right, I'm not saying people can NEVER use it in any context, but I find the attempts to use it casually or make it "no big deal," by blacks or whites or whoever, really forced and stupid-sounding to me. And there's a difference between seeing it in song's like Smith's or used by people like Elvis Costello or John Lennon in their songs...yeah, it's often just a cheap attempt to shock or get attention, but it's ultimately still being used with the idea that that words has a really ugly history and typically means something really hurtful. That's totally different than people tossing it around in jokes or casual conversation "trying to take it back" or whatever.

Just my opinion. I simply choose to not use it like that or hang around people that do, ad I've found neither decisions difficult to stick by. Again, such is life.

[GreatAmericanZero]

yeah i went to a racially diverse high school (cuz pixie went to my same high school), but there were black people on my bus, and the black kids and the white kids would sit in the back and rap, and all the kids used "the nigga word", no one was offended

[Death Metal Moe]

Sometimes people do extreme things to prove a point. Most likely she dumped him to prove how passionate she really felt about the subject. and based on fezidents first post he comes off a little nonchalant and condescending about a subject that obviously means a great deal to her.

It's not just about politics for many black people. not at all.

So if you claim you love her it shouldn't be that hard to realize that. But if you feel you were in the right and being right and logical is more important to you -then parting ways was for the best.

Plus she's a chick soo... yea.

Well if she is willing to throw something away to prove a point to a guy that obviously isn't racist then it didn't mean shit to her.

There's talks, there's arguments, there's freaking out you can save the relationship from, then there's this.

[GreatAmericanZero]

oh wait, was it just racist of me to say the black kids would sit at the back of the bus?


If it was..for THAT..i wholeheartedly apologiiiiiiiiiiiiize

[TheMojoPin]

Sometimes people do extreme things to prove a point. Most likely she dumped him to prove how passionate she really felt about the subject. and based on fezidents first post he comes off a little nonchalant and condescending about a subject that obviously means a great deal to her.

It's not just about politics for many black people. not at all.

So if you claim you love her it shouldn't be that hard to realize that. But if you feel you were in the right and being right and logical is more important to you -then parting ways was for the best.

Plus she's a chick soo... yea.

I'm just looking at it as a relationship between two people where, as Fezident has told us, everything was going great and she was willing to smash all of that and dump him just because of a minor difference in politics she had to twist to call him a "racist." That's not a recipe for a lasting, stable relationship no matter what color anyone is.

[Death Metal Moe]

Truth.

I'm glad you agree man, sorry to be so blunt. It's EXTREMELY easy for us to sit back and discuss your broken heart here. It must hurt more knowing that it was over something like this too. You didn't cheat on her, you didn't forget her birthday, you just had a discussion with her about something that was a hot button issue for her.

Just wanted to say I recognize you lost something and am very sorry, as we all discuss this issue emotionally detached because it doesn't concern us directly.

[TheMojoPin]

yeah i went to a racially diverse high school (cuz pixie went to my same high school), but there were black people on my bus, and the black kids and the white kids would sit in the back and rap, and all the kids used "the nigga word", no one was offended

I went to globally diverse schools all the way through high school...and yet, here I am. I very rarely heard non-backs using that word in any public context, and when they did it usually ended up being pretty ugly. I'm not talking about quoting a song...I'm assuming you're talking about dopes freestyling and deciding to drop it.

[zildjian361]

where the white woman at?:unsure::drunk::smoke:

[Death Metal Moe]

So if you claim you love her it shouldn't be that hard to realize that. But if you feel you were in the right and being right and logical is more important to you -then parting ways was for the best.


Just re-read that. Come on Pixie, you're gonna put this on him now? That's not fair at all. They had a discussion and she called him a racist out of nowhere with nothing to back it up?

That's fucked up.

[IamPixie]

Well if she is willing to throw something away to prove a point to a guy that obviously isn't racist then it didn't mean shit to her.

There's talks, there's arguments, there's freaking out you can save the relationship from, then there's this.

I'm just looking at it as a relationship between two people where, as Fezident has told us, everything was going great and she was willing to smash all of that and dump him just because of a minor difference in politics she had to twist to call him a "racist." That's not a recipe for a lasting, stable relationship no matter what color anyone is.


Sometimes people do extreme things to prove a point. Most likely she dumped him to prove how passionate she really felt about the subject. and based on fezidents first post he comes off a little nonchalant and condescending about a subject that obviously means a great deal to her.

Last night was huge milestone in black american history. What's so hard to understand about that? It's not some petty non-issue both of you are making it out to be. :wacko:

[IamPixie]

Just re-read that. Come on Pixie, you're gonna put this on him now? That's not fair at all. They had a discussion and she called him a racist out of nowhere with nothing to back it up?

That's fucked up.

I'm not saying it wasn't fucked up. it was fucked up.

[TheMojoPin]

Last night was huge milestone in black american history. What's to hard to understand about that? It's not some petty non-issue both of you are making it out to be. :wacko:

You really think his comment was worth destroying their relationship over?

[GreatAmericanZero]

One of the hardest lessons to learn when you are a guy...when you are absolutely right, logically and intellectually, sometimes you gotta just give up and let the girl have the win. Its frustrating...its horrible and one of the biggest blow to everything you know about the world...but its part of being a man. Its hard, but sometimes, as a man, you just have to compromise your integrity. And thats that.

[Death Metal Moe]

Last night was huge milestone in black american history. What's to hard to understand about that? It's not some petty non-issue both of you are making it out to be. :wacko:

Yes, it was.

Now I still want to hear more from him. What's racist about that? What's racist to say he's had a huge celebrity-like career in the media so far but now I want some more substance before I decide who I'm voting for?

And what was racist about him asking her about why besides "He's one of us" she was voting for him?

[fezident]

Hey... the last thing I am is perfect.
But I've been in my fair share of arguements and fights, and I gotta say... something about THIS fight felt lopsided. It was almost as if she was "over fighting". It was like she was saying things to me that perhaps she's wanted to say to other white people... but never did. Or couldn't.

I'm not excited about just dropping everything and moving on without her but, somebody here (perhaps Mojo?) said that if this fight happened the way it did, we obviously don't have a real future. And I'm inclined to agree.

But if you asked me two days ago if there was a future. I would've said "hell yes!"


Aaaanyway..... thanx buddays.

[IamPixie]

You really think his comment was worth destroying their relationship over?

No, I don't. If it were me I probably would have locked myself in the bathroom and cried. but that's just me.

[TheMojoPin]

It's a crappy spot to be in, budday. That said, the "I slept with YOU" line was a baaaaaaaaaaaaad idea in any context.

[EliSnow]

Just re-read that. Come on Pixie, you're gonna put this on him now? That's not fair at all. They had a discussion and she called him a racist out of nowhere with nothing to back it up?

That's fucked up.

She does have a point. As any married guy knows, there's a point when he realizes that it's better to cede the ground on an issue and not need to be right.

That's not to say that a guy should never stand his ground and insist that he's right and stand by it. Ultimately, it's a choice. Is the issue you're making a stand on important enough to the guy to risk losing hte relationship. There are things that are important enough.

This is probably one of them, but it's up to the guy to make the stand.

That's all I see Pixie saying here.

[Death Metal Moe]

Hey... the last thing I am is perfect.
But I've been in my fair share of arguements and fights, and I gotta say... something about THIS fight felt lopsided. It was almost as if she was "over fighting". It was like she was saying things to me that perhaps she's wanted to say to other white people... but never did. Or couldn't.

I'm not excited about just dropping everything and moving on without her but, somebody here (perhaps Mojo?) said that if this fight happened the way it did, we obviously don't have a real future. And I'm inclined to agree.

But if you asked me two days ago if there was a future. I would've said "hell yes!"


Aaaanyway..... thanx buddays.


Yea, sorry again bro. I'm done in this thread, I didn't even notice it was turning into a political discussion that has nothing to do with you and your thread topic.

[IamPixie]

Hey... the last thing I am is perfect.
But I've been in my fair share of arguements and fights, and I gotta say... something about THIS fight felt lopsided. It was almost as if she was "over fighting". It was like she was saying things to me that perhaps she's wanted to say to other white people... but never did. Or couldn't.



She might have been feeling black guilt for boning "the man". But that's not your issue it's her, I suppose.

[IamPixie]

It's a crappy spot to be in, budday. That said, the "I slept with YOU" line was a baaaaaaaaaaaaad idea in any context.

:lol:

[TheMojoPin]

Yea, sorry again bro. I'm done in this thread, I didn't even notice it was turning into a political discussion that has nothing to do with you and your thread topic.

Political discussion?

Where are the politics? The political talk was from fezident himself in describing the situation.

[GreatAmericanZero]

this thread did get political, but i think underneath it all is just a "man" "woman" problem

Man says something he sees as harmless. Woman reacts in an over sensitive way. Man is annoyed and confused, meanwhile Woman is crazy and illogical. Who hasn't been there?

[Dougie Brootal]

Right, I'm not saying people can NEVER use it in any context, but I find the attempts to use it casually or make it "no big deal," by blacks or whites or whoever, really forced and stupid-sounding to me. And there's a difference between seeing it in song's like Smith's or used by people like Elvis Costello or John Lennon in their songs...yeah, it's often just a cheap attempt to shock or get attention, but it's ultimately still being used with the idea that that words has a really ugly history and typically means something really hurtful. That's totally different than people tossing it around in jokes or casual conversation "trying to take it back" or whatever.

Just my opinion. I simply choose to not use it like that or hang around people that do, ad I've found neither decisions difficult to stick by. Again, such is life.

whats so special about lennon, smith, and costello that its okay for them? their just human beings too.

[EliSnow]

It's a crappy spot to be in, budday. That said, the "I slept with YOU" line was a baaaaaaaaaaaaad idea in any context.

Yeah, I wouldn't be suprised if Strom Thurmand used it at some point.

And Fezident, I'm not saying that because I think you're racist like Thurmand, because I don't.

[Dougie Brootal]

No, I don't. If it were me I probably would have locked myself in the bathroom and cried. but that's just me.

whats to cry about? i dont understand this statement.

[sailor]

But some words are defined by negativity, just like there are words definied by being positive. It's always been like that. Dismissing "bad words" altogether doesn't make you some kind of maverick...it is, in my opinion, an arrogant and willfully ignorant decision. Our communication is such a powerful tool, and our choices dictate how it's used. I'm not saying it's impossible for you to try and use certain words lightly or just kidding around, but you can't just dimiss them as "just words."

GAZ, I'm talking aobut this in general and not trying to slam you. You don't sound like a bad guy at all..I just disagree on this.

i hated top gun and am offended by your use of the "m" word. kindly, discontinue its use.

[IamPixie]

can we please not turn this into: "But, why can I say nigger?!" thread. it's really fucking boring and repetitious.

[TheMojoPin]

whats so special about lennon, smith, and costello that its okay for them? their just human beings too.

I didn't say it was "OK." I said that when guys like that do in songs it comes across, to me, as trying really hard to be "edgy" or shocking and it's cheesy as hell at the very least. Tha sai, they're still using it with the understanding that the word has a ton of baggage with it. They're not using it like it's no big deal and "just another word."

And please shrink your fucking sig setup. That's obnoxious as hell.

[TheMojoPin]

i hated top gun and am offended by your use of the "m" word. kindly, discontinue its use.

http://www.ieatpaint.com/topgun/gayiceman.jpg

[sailor]

http://www.ieatpaint.com/topgun/gayiceman.jpg

iceman...you stink.

[Dougie Brootal]

can we please not turn this into: "But, why can I say nigger?!" thread. it's really fucking boring and repetitious.

not my intention at all and im sorry if it looks that way.

[TheMojoPin]

Yeah, I wouldn't be suprised if Strom Thurmand used it at some point.

And Fezident, I'm not saying that because I think you're racist like Thurmand, because I don't.

Dude, that line is epic fail said by a guy to a girl in an argument regardless of race. It's only gonna be taken as "oh, I lowered myself to fuck you."

[TheMojoPin]

iceman...you stink.

Meet me on the volleyball court, fucko. We're gonna settle this like sweaty, chiseled, soundtracked by Kenny Loggins MEN.

[Dougie Brootal]

I didn't say it was "OK." I said that when guys like that do in songs it comes across, to me, as trying really hard to be "edgy" or shocking and it's cheesy as hell at the very least. Tha sai, they're still using it with the understanding that the word has a ton of baggage with it. They're not using it like it's no big deal and "just another word."

And please shrink your fucking sig setup. That's obnoxious as hell.

okay. i misunderstood. ill see what i can do about the sig.

[sailor]

Meet me on the volleyball court, fucko. We're gonna settle this like sweaty, chiseled, soundtracked by Kenny Loggins MEN.

you've lost that lovin' feelin'

http://www.audioshocker.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/maverick07.jpg

[GreatAmericanZero]

I didn't say it was "OK." I said that when guys like that do in songs it comes across, to me, as trying really hard to be "edgy" or shocking and it's cheesy as hell at the very least. Tha sai, they're still using it with the understanding that the word has a ton of baggage with it. They're not using it like it's no big deal and "just another word."

And please shrink your fucking sig setup. That's obnoxious as hell.

there has been comedians that have used it and i thought it was unnecessary for shock value. But I've also heard white comedians say it where it was absolutely hilarious and necessary.

My favorite was on some David Cross cd..it was a while ago and he was talking about that guy that resigned because he said "there would be less problems in the world if Strom Thurmand was president" (i forgot his name..was it Trent Lott or someone else?). Anyway, he does a bit of him explaining himself on BET and the punchline to the whole joke was this guy saying "It was a misunderstand...when I said 'all niggers are faggots', what i meant to say was 'all faggots are niggers'". I didnt explain it well, but it was a hilarious punchline

but anyway, Pixie doesn't want this thread to be an "N-word" discussion...and I'm more on the vibe right now that Fezidents problem is more of a "man v. woman" problem than a "black v. white" problem. They could've had an arguement about the kitchen drapes and had this same result

[TheMojoPin]

there has been comedians that have used it and i thought it was unnecessary for shock value. But I've also heard white comedians say it where it was absolutely hilarious and necessary.

My favorite was on some David Cross cd..it was a while ago and he was talking about that guy that resigned because he said "there would be less problems in the world if Strom Thurmand was president" (i forgot his name..was it Trent Lott or someone else?). Anyway, he does a bit of him explaining himself on BET and the punchline to the whole joke was this guy saying "It was a misunderstand...when I said 'all niggers are faggots', what i meant to say was 'all faggots are niggers'". I didnt explain it well, but it was a hilarious punchline

I totally agree on this. Again, I'm not saying people can't ever say it, and these guys are typically doing it to make a point/joke to a huge audience revolving around the ugliness of that word. They're not tossing it out there as if it's no big thing, and it's totally different than 4 or 5 buddies giggling over the word amongst themselves (which they can do, whatever, I just don't want a part of it).

And yeah, we're sidetracking this. My bad.

[ahhdurr]

:blink::blink:She does have a point. As any married guy knows, there's a point when he realizes that it's better to cede the ground on an issue and not need to be right.


Eli - so wise.
<br>
I am married still today only because of the utter miracle of having internalized this lesson.
<br>
Completely depends though. As was mentioned - you pick what's important and you fight to the death for something you consider isn't worth living with. (to the death of the relationship)
<br>
One of the buzz lines you'll hear in a 12 step program is "do you want to be right or happy?"

Pretty amazing when you take a look at it disspationatley, how were all social creatures - i.e. we are as much our society and groups with whom we identify as we are ourselves. It's as though history and current events broke you up more than anything personal. (:blink: or something)

[ahhdurr]

whats to cry about? i dont understand this statement.

Let me tell you about women Grasso..

That just means "I'm all bunched up with emotion - I need to feel like I'm right and you're a total asshole and I hate my mother and I think I'm fat and aahhhhhHHH!!HH!HH!H!HH!H!H!H!HH"

So I cry in the bathroom.

Ride it out.

[LittlePapi]

Dude, I'm so with you..I totally have the "fever for the flavor" but what I did was kinda like a quick end around.. I chose a team with a similar look but a much weaker defence..

I try to only bang Dominican chicks..Period!
They're just about as beautiful as black women but they A) barely speek the fucking language (big plus) and B) don't have nearly as foul a disposition as many of today's black women and most importantly, C)They scream "AYE PAPI".. You don't know how hard your dick could even get until you hear a woman scream that shit, followed by some other hot spanish word that I don't know..

Don't get me wrong, if you're an epic fail in the bedroom she will probably be bent over the lazyboy gettin plowed in the ass by the neighbor before your car is even in gear in the morning but all women have there idiosyncrasies, don't they? :wink:

[EliSnow]

One of the buzz lines you'll hear in a 12 step program is "do you want to be right or happy?"





QFMFT

[furie]

http://www.paunchstevenson.com/photos/ted-danson-blackface-2.jpg

there's only one man who can help you

[GreatAmericanZero]

My white GF thinks im gay cuz i wanted her to strap on a dildo and suck her cock. WTF!

[SatCam]

I think they did a Jerry Springer episode along these same lines

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[Tenbatsuzen]

She might have been feeling black guilt for boning "the man". But that's not your issue it's her, I suppose.

If he's racist, gives new meaning to the term "hatefuck".

[Tenbatsuzen]

"Nigger" and "Faggot" have evolved because of our instant news format to be immediately red flags.

I mean, Axl Rose had a song on GNR lies about "niggers and faggots". The song generated some heat back in the day, but it died out. Now? That album would be banned from stores. Guaranteed.

I admit that I use hateful speech sometimes, but I also know where there are lines to be drawn. I usually "know my audience" and I know the people who I say it in front of won't be offended.

One of the things Gvac didn't understand is how "faggot" is hate speech. To a lot of people, and especially Human Resources types, "faggot" is just as bad as "nigger".

[donnie_darko]

this is crazy, really.

so if you two were married, do you think you would be getting a divorce over questioning her support for obama?

i think its more sad that you wasted so much of your life with someone who obviously can't have an honest discussion.


and tenbatsuzen, i remember once in highschool getting into a fight over someone using the "n-word", not because i cared but because i was with a group of my black friends and it was expected.

sure i was 14 then, but i'm left to wonder how many people display false outrage to the word, simply because they believe it's expected.

[GreatAmericanZero]

And one of the hypocrisy of the media


the word "nigger" is an offensive word, but it hasn't always been a word you can't say on tv.

They said it on SNL during that famous Chevy Chase/Pryor skit. I remember an episode of "Family Matters" where it was written on one of the kids locker. It was taken in a serious matter, but that word still was on tv

at the time, you couldn't say the word "shit" on tv, which pretty much everyone says and no one is ever offended by.

Today, you can say "shit" on a few channels. The word "nigga" is still said on shows like "Dave Chappelle", "South Park" and "The Boondocks". But you can not say "Fuck" on any of those shows..even though anyone would say "Nigger" in any of its forms is way more offensive than "Fuck" in any of its forms. Its just so weird

[ahhdurr]

"Nigger" and "Faggot" have evolved because of our instant news format to be immediately red flags.

I mean, Axl Rose had a song on GNR lies about "niggers and faggots". The song generated some heat back in the day, but it died out. Now? That album would be banned from stores. Guaranteed.

I admit that I use hateful speech sometimes, but I also know where there are lines to be drawn. I usually "know my audience" and I know the people who I say it in front of won't be offended.

One of the things Gvac didn't understand is how "faggot" is hate speech. To a lot of people, and especially Human Resources types, "faggot" is just as bad as "nigger".

It's ironic you're mentioning this considering you burst my bubble (so to speak) on the Pryor album.

I felt like I was in posession of plutonium when I pulled that title out of the old moldy box of records I'd been given. You know - like back when plutonium might have been sold as a health tonic or somesuch thing in a general store. I felt like a character in 1984... no shit.

My first thought was "what the fuck? This thing wouldn't make it past his agent today" - or whatever the inital stage of the artist's concept is.

And context is so important. I recall a race relations class I took in 1998 and some of the other classes I had taken at the time that dealt heavily with free speech issues where nigger was uttered - by myself even in oral presentations as a manner of communication. And I wrestled with whether or not I was going to say it in my discussion (the context was simply quoting that sax player in The Commitments in drawing paralells to early Irish immigrants and blacks of that same time). I was the only white guy in the class and it was received as expected. Well. And I didn't get the sense that anyone was upset or just 'taking it' b/c that's what they felt they had to do to appear educated. There were whitey hating m/f'rs in that class. They just respected my right to discuss and use otherwise unpopular terms.

blank blank blank blank blank blank blank blank blank blank blank blank.... you know ... I just had a lot to say there but every one of those words became unpopular so guess what? Now we don't know shit. We're communicating ineffectively and it's getting worse.

One of the greatest things I've found on this board is a community where people use potentially dangerous and awful concepts and words in a responsible manner. Whether it be for humor or for enlightenment or whatever - but they're generally not just used to make people feel bad.

It's not just words though, and I'm not beyond conspiracy theory on this, but ANYTHING dangerous is kept out of anyone's hands now. Words/concepts/materials... I was working on my A/C recently and had to argue with an HVAC store owner (and throw my licenses at him ultimately) just to get a cleaning product for the aluminum.

Get ye to the higher echelons of the power structure or you better get used to asking permission.

[scottinnj]

Well I'm a woman and I never express emotion. NEVER.

You must be horrible in bed.
:wink:

[sr71blackbird]

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[TheMojoPin]

Here's the thing about trying to "figure out" when it's OK to say certain words...all the examples tossed out in the most recent posts are great. They're detailing situations where people are trying to make an academic point or highlight the heated nature of the word or whatever. Ultimately, these are all instances where nobody is forgetting for an instant what the word means and the extensive history it has. It strikes me as hollow when examples such as those are used to decry how "sensitive" we've become when it's ultimately too many people complaining that they and their buddies or some radio show they listen to "can't" use the word as some stupid bit of shock or just to get attention or whatever. I'm not saying that's the case with everyone here, but it's too often these great arguments or examples tossed there ultimately to defend the use of the word in ways where it's being used only to insult someone or elicit a "shocked" reaction.

And personally, I think it's a good thing if we've moved passed a point where you saw that word more often, even if it was in examinations of what it was. It shouldn't be forgotten, but I'd prefer to evolve into a world where we've somewhat progressed beyond how ugly that word was, and I simply don't see how using it more accomplishes that. Words tha hateful or insulting typically never evolve into something "positive," so it strikes me as a total pipe dream ad non-point for people to argue that using it more somehow "depowers" it or "takes it back" or "makes it just a word."

[IamFogHat]

I couldn't be with someone who thought I held racist views against her people. I dated a girl of secular Muslim decent a few years back, and her family was from Afganistan, and we dated post-US invasion of said country, and I remember one night we had a really weird exchange in which she was heartfeltfully (and understandably, she still had family over there) critical of our invasion, and I was like, (to paraphrase) 'Al Quaeda is "responsible" for 9-11, so listen, if Ireland or if NRI soldiers committed terrorist attacks I wouldn't be opposed to fighting back in any sense of the word. Now I know this is a complex issue, but take it as a microcosm, and it was a very awkward night, and somehow she recognized where I was coming from, as opposed to her initial thought process which was me attacking Muslims blindly, and so from there things were ok. I know it's not the same situation, but I do feel where you're coming from.

[scottinnj]

Dude, by now it boils down to this:

If you still love her and want to be with her, call her up and say you're sorry and beg her to come back. The make-up sex will be fantastic, guaranteed in this situation.

If you think about it, and decide that you didn't really love her and it's okay that this is over, then put it behind you and move on.

[FUNKMAN]

she sounds a bit naive 'for lack of a better word'... i'm just curious to see if 'in time' you guys would get back together

if not, please pm me her phone number :tongue:

[LaBoob]

You must be horrible in bed.
:wink:


How would I know? I'm too busy just laying there and thinking of England.

[Tenbatsuzen]

How would I know? I'm too busy just laying there and thinking of England.

Maybe you need a woman's touch.

[A.J.]

How would I know? I'm too busy just laying there and thinking of England.

Traitor.

[CofyCrakCocaine]

The first key to politics is to never take it personally- any politician worth his/her salt would tell ya that. Which is why most people can't handle political discussions very well and the topic should be avoided at all costs. Especially when it coincides with someone's sense of identity- you can't question the qualifications of someone's father or mother to them; the same kind of emotion goes into something like what you and your GF split over.

People get weird about that stuff- never discuss Custer with a Lakota Sioux where you question whether Crazy Horse had the right to scalp C.Dog or not- you'll find yourself in shittier water than if you stuck to your high morals by giving your honest and plain opinion.

[lleeder]

Ive said the word "nigger"

If the mods had balls that would be his new Mod quote.

I've never let winning a political arguement come between me and pussy.

[lleeder]

I remember an episode of "Family Matters"

Has anyone ever listened to someones point after they said this phrase?

[IamPixie]

I've never let winning a political arguement come between me and pussy.

Lleeder, ftw.

[Dougie Brootal]

id appreciate it if everyone would stop saying the word faggot in here... lets try heterosexually challenged. thanks!

[K.C.]

Racist.

http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2005/03/24/rickygervais_wideweb__430x322.jpg