Gay Marriage

[Furtherman]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/p480x480/428602_10150547475294032_642649031_8772704_7663566 13_n.jpg

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Biggest homophobes in the country are blacks and hispanics

[Snacks]

The Scariest Gay Marriage Chart Ever. (http://cdn.front.moveon.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Gay-Marriage-Legalized-Chart.gif)

haha so true and yet scares the shit out of so many for no reason.

[Furtherman]

Biggest homophobes in the country are Americans

Fixed.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Hispanics, especially immigrants are rabidly homophobic. In Latin American countries with the Church being a dominant force and their culture being very masculine, They look down on anyone who's gay.


Prop 8 in CA was voted due to the heavy presence of them. And influence from the Mormons.

[underdog]

Hispanics, especially immigrants are rabidly homophobic. In Latin American countries with the Church being a dominant force and their culture being very masculine, They look down on anyone who's gay.


Prop 8 in CA was voted due to the heavy presence of them. And influence from the Mormons.

It's because of religion. Hispanics and blacks are usually very religious.

[ozzie]

haha so true and yet scares the shit out of so many for no reason.

http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lnzejfpsHQ1qesdbbo1_500.png

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I have no objections to gays being married. As long as churches arent forced to perform them its fine with me

[Snacks]

I have no objections to gays being married. As long as churches arent forced to perform them its fine with me

why would churches be forced to marry anyone? a catholic church isnt forced to marry a jewish couple if a jewish couple for some stupid reason wanted to get married in a church so why would anything change?

[ozzie]

I have no objections to gays being married. As long as churches arent forced to perform them its fine with me

I may be naive here, but when has any church ever been forced to perform any marriage?

I'm only familiar with the Catholics, and they've refused to marry plenty of people for purely religious reasons, that could have been legally married in a courthouse, or anywhere else.

[RoseBlood]

I'm only familiar with the Catholics, and they've refused to marry plenty of people for purely religious reasons, that could have been legally married in a courthouse, or anywhere else.

If the right amount of money were waved in the churches face, I'd be surprised they'd turn down anybody.

[ozzie]

why would churches be forced to marry anyone? a catholic church isnt forced to marry a jewish couple if a jewish couple for some stupid reason wanted to get married in a church so why would anything change?

Beat me to it.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

why would churches be forced to marry anyone? a catholic church isnt forced to marry a jewish couple if a jewish couple for some stupid reason wanted to get married in a church so why would anything change?

Different topic but churches, catholic hospitals under Obamacare are being forced to provide contraceptives and the morning after pill. The administration might back off from that.


On another note. Tax all Churches, Synogagues, Mosques, and other houses of worship

[ozzie]

Different topic but churches, catholic hospitals under Obamacare are being forced to provide contraceptives and the morning after pill. The administration might back off from that.

Uh, yeah, that is a much different topic.

On another note. Tax all Churches, Synogagues, Mosques, and other houses of worship

Can we tax ALL charities and NPO's too?

I want part of my pink ribbon money to go to the schools, roads and defending this great country, damnit!

[Snacks]

Different topic but churches, catholic hospitals under Obamacare are being forced to provide contraceptives and the morning after pill. The administration might back off from that.


On another note. Tax all Churches, Synogagues, Mosques, and other houses of worship

different situation. hospitals are there to care for patients of all race, religions etc plus they are there to do no harm. the churches themselves arent religious institutions or churches. they arent owned or under any churches umbrella. I dont believe the pope or vatican have any ownership or relationship with any so called "catholic hospitals"

I could be wrong, if so tell us about it.

[underdog]

why would churches be forced to marry anyone? a catholic church isnt forced to marry a jewish couple if a jewish couple for some stupid reason wanted to get married in a church so why would anything change?

I may be naive here, but when has any church ever been forced to perform any marriage?

I'm only familiar with the Catholics, and they've refused to marry plenty of people for purely religious reasons, that could have been legally married in a courthouse, or anywhere else.

don't let logic get in your way of arguing with WF.

Different topic but churches, catholic hospitals under Obamacare are being forced to provide contraceptives and the morning after pill. The administration might back off from that.

Yes, completely different topic.

[Snacks]

Uh, yeah, that is a much different topic.



Can we tax ALL charities and NPO's too?

I want part of my pink ribbon money to go to the schools, roads and defending this great country, damnit!

Maybe they should!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

different situation. hospitals are there to care for patients of all race, religions etc plus they are there to do no harm. the churches themselves arent religious institutions or churches. they arent owned or under any churches umbrella. I dont believe the pope or vatican have any ownership or relationship with any so called "catholic hospitals"

I could be wrong, if so tell us about it.

I dont know if the hospitals fall under the archdiocese.

Hospitals arent turning anyone away. However mandating that these institutions provide these violates the 1st amendment. They want these institutions to pay for contraceptions and abortions, that violates church doctrine

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Maybe they should!

Another reason to repeal the 16th amendment. No more deductions


If you want to own a home, have kids, be married, live alone, etc. that is your choice and the tax code should have no bearing on anything you do.

[weekapaugjz]

I dont know if the hospitals fall under the archdiocese.

Hospitals arent turning anyone away. However mandating that these institutions provide these violates the 1st amendment. They want these institutions to pay for contraceptions and abortions, that violates church doctrine

since when do women's health issues fall under the 1st ammendment?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

since when do women's health issues fall under the 1st ammendment?

The church is against contraceptions and abortions.


Women are free to go to the thousands of other clinics out there.

[Furtherman]

since when do women's health issues fall under the 1st ammendment?

I've heard others say this too... and I don't get it either. Someone explain it to me slowly.

[HBox]

I hope that the churches get that exception. I really do. Then I'm going to sit back and wait..... and wait... and wait.... until the first breakthrough comes from stem cell research and watch those fuckers flounder around like a fish out of water.

[Tenbatsuzen]

I hope that the churches get that exception. I really do. Then I'm going to sit back and wait..... and wait... and wait.... until the first breakthrough comes from stem cell research and watch those fuckers flounder around like a fish out of water.

then they'll think they'll turn into lots more fishes out of water. and bread too. tss tss

[WRESTLINGFAN]

then they'll think they'll turn into lots more fishes out of water. and bread too. tss tss

STARVIN!!!!!

[zentraed]

Different topic but churches, catholic hospitals under Obamacare are being forced to provide contraceptives and the morning after pill. The administration might back off from that.


On another note. Tax all Churches, Synogagues, Mosques, and other houses of worship

This is inaccurate. If you provide health insurance to your employees, unless you are a church or other form of a purely religious institution, it must include coverage for contraception. The Obama administration has simply said that institutions like church-affiliated hospitals do not qualify for exemptions.

Part of health care reform is mandating minimum coverage levels. No one is forcing women to take birth control pills. If you work at a Catholic hospital and don't want to take the pill, then don't ask your doctor for it. If you do want it, it will be free to you just like it is to every other woman in the country, as it should be.

[Syd]

Just offer them free rectal surgery for all the little boys they fuck. Compromise!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

This is inaccurate. If you provide health insurance to your employees, unless you are a church or other form of a purely religious institution, it must include coverage for contraception. The Obama administration has simply said that institutions like church-affiliated hospitals do not qualify for exemptions.

Part of health care reform is mandating minimum coverage levels. No one is forcing women to take birth control pills. If you work at a Catholic hospital and don't want to take the pill, then don't ask your doctor for it. If you do want it, it will be free to you just like it is to every other woman in the country, as it should be.

The gov't is mandating that catholic hospitals and universities fully pay for contraceptives and morning after pills. That violates church doctrine.

Employees should seek employment elsewhere if they disagree with this. They are not obligated to work there.

[Crispy123]

The gov't is mandating that catholic hospitals and universities fully pay for contraceptives and morning after pills. That violates church doctrine.

No. People having premarital sex and/or sex for any reason other than procreation violates church doctrine. Interestingly enuff covering up for little boy, ass rapists doesn't.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

No. People having premarital sex and/or sex for any reason other than procreation violates church doctrine. Interestingly enuff covering up for little boy, ass rapists doesn't.

People having premarital sex have the luxury of going to confession.


Now if the Church would allow priests to marry like they were able to once before there wouldnt be rampant abuse.

[Crispy123]

People having premarital sex have the luxury of going to confession.


Now if the Church would allow priests to marry like they were able to once before there wouldnt be rampant abuse.

So your problem is with the Church and not the President. Finally, we can agree. :smile:

[WRESTLINGFAN]

So your problem is with the Church and not the President. Finally, we can agree. :smile:

Actually its with both.

[Crispy123]

Actually its with both.

and we were so close, darn it! Maybe I will go try and watch some Fox news...

[WRESTLINGFAN]

and we were so close, darn it! Maybe I will go try and watch some Fox news...

Come on I do disagree with the church doesnt that count?

[ozzie]

The gov't is mandating that catholic hospitals and universities fully pay for contraceptives and morning after pills.

My employer doesn't "fully pay" for anything I receive that is covered on my health care plan. It's not like they receive an invoice for a month's supply of birth control pills for my wife.

You're acting like a catholic university is being forced to buy and stock contraceptives for their employees. Like they were being forced to put out a bowl of condoms in the break room.

My employer signed with BCBS under a particular plan, and they pay a certain percentage. We pay the rest.

It's been a while since I've been involved in health care decisions, but most offered a "cafeteria plan", where there were line-item decisions to be made on co-pays, deductibles, etc. I don't ever remember seeing options as detailed as what medications were covered and such, but I guess some may drill down to the gnat's ass.

All this is saying is that BCBS, United Health Care, etc., now have to include coverage for "contraceptives and morning after pills" in the plans they provide to businesses, and that my employer couldn't decline this coverage to their employees. And, initially, there were no exceptions.

[ozzie]

If you do want it, it will be free to you just like it is to every other woman in the country, as it should be.

I don't know about anyone else's health care plan, but NOTHING on ours is "free".

Every year BCBS raises our premium rates 9 to 13%. Every, fucking, year, regardless of use.

To offset the cost to the employess, my bossess routinely raise co-pays and deductibles on visits and all medications.

The last two year's I've been "out of pocket" for thousands of dollars on top of what is withheld from my check.

BCBS has a fucking strangle hold on this state. Sure, our company could shop around, and go with a competitor, but most employees would revolt. They want their BCBS coverage so they can go to THEIR doc and fave hospital, and BCBS knows this, so they get away with charging whatever the fuck they want.

I've lobbied for going with United Health care, or ANYONE who offers a "Health Savings Plan" option, but I get voted down.

In THIS state... private health care is a fucking monopoly, and the doctors and hospital staff I've spoken to agree with me. BOTH sides get screwed down here, while BCBS makes out like a bandit.

[zentraed]

I don't know about anyone else's health care plan, but NOTHING on ours is "free".

Every year BCBS raises our premium rates 9 to 13%. Every, fucking, year, regardless of use.

Contraceptives are considered part of preventive care now, and, just like annual physicals, they are to be provided with no copays to everyone on an approved healthcare plan. Religious institutions get an extra year to comply.

Insurance companies now also have to request approval for all large rate increases (I think anything over 9%), and those requests and the amounts approved are documented on the healthcare.gov site. If an insurance company (depending on size) doesn't spend around 85% of premium dollars on actual healthcare expenses, they have to refund the difference. Those provisions just went into effect this year.

Slightly more on-topic, healthcare benefits for gay partners are taxed differently than for married couples. The deduction provision didn't survive to the final bill.

[StanUpshaw]

So wait...why do gay couples need contraceptives?

[A.J.]

So wait...why do gay couples need contraceptives?

To keep away the AIDS.

[Crispy123]

To keep away the AIDS.

cool, AIDs.

[Dude!]

I don't know about anyone else's health care plan, but NOTHING on ours is "free".

Every year BCBS raises our premium rates 9 to 13%. Every, fucking, year, regardless of use.

To offset the cost to the employess, my bossess routinely raise co-pays and deductibles on visits and all medications.

The last two year's I've been "out of pocket" for thousands of dollars on top of what is withheld from my check.

BCBS has a fucking strangle hold on this state. Sure, our company could shop around, and go with a competitor, but most employees would revolt. They want their BCBS coverage so they can go to THEIR doc and fave hospital, and BCBS knows this, so they get away with charging whatever the fuck they want.

I've lobbied for going with United Health care, or ANYONE who offers a "Health Savings Plan" option, but I get voted down.

In THIS state... private health care is a fucking monopoly, and the doctors and hospital staff I've spoken to agree with me. BOTH sides get screwed down here, while BCBS makes out like a bandit.

you'd probably feel better
if they'd color-code their invoices

[CountryBob]

I don't know about anyone else's health care plan, but NOTHING on ours is "free".

Every year BCBS raises our premium rates 9 to 13%. Every, fucking, year, regardless of use.

To offset the cost to the employess, my bossess routinely raise co-pays and deductibles on visits and all medications.

The last two year's I've been "out of pocket" for thousands of dollars on top of what is withheld from my check.

BCBS has a fucking strangle hold on this state. Sure, our company could shop around, and go with a competitor, but most employees would revolt. They want their BCBS coverage so they can go to THEIR doc and fave hospital, and BCBS knows this, so they get away with charging whatever the fuck they want.

I've lobbied for going with United Health care, or ANYONE who offers a "Health Savings Plan" option, but I get voted down.

In THIS state... private health care is a fucking monopoly, and the doctors and hospital staff I've spoken to agree with me. BOTH sides get screwed down here, while BCBS makes out like a bandit.

We have had to increase our employees monthly premiums by over 40 % in the past 2 years alone!

One reason is our utilization rate has been through the roof and being fully insured - we have to suffer the wrath each renewal time. But I will say that BCBS is gouging customers each year since Health care reform was mentioned - because they dont know what the future really holds. My rep at BCBS agrees with me that 10% is just a "blue SKy" charge for the hell of it.

[ozzie]

We have had to increase our employees monthly premiums by over 40 % in the past 2 years alone!

One reason is our utilization rate has been through the roof and being fully insured - we have to suffer the wrath each renewal time. But I will say that BCBS is gouging customers each year since Health care reform was mentioned - because they dont know what the future really holds. My rep at BCBS agrees with me that 10% is just a "blue SKy" charge for the hell of it.

We had ONE year under United Health Care this decade. They sent a rep in to explain their plan, and also to explain this "Health Savings Plan" that they offered.

I had been in the exec meetings when it was decided to change, so I had a little "heads up" on what that HSP was all about.

The couple that explained it to the troops did a terrible job of explaining. All these folks heard was that one was "FREE", the other, the employee had to pay the first $2k each year. (or $4k for "family")

In the end, there were TWO of us in the whole company who went the HSP route, and the other was one of the directors.

People bitched from day one because certain docs and hospitals in this state didn't accept UHC.

Me? I fucking loved it. Under their HSP, a single employee paid 100% of the first $2k, and 0% of any additional cost. OH, and the company dropped $500 in the plan from the start. By the end of the year, my balance was over $1500, and I would only be responsible for the first $2k the following year, so I was looking good.

BUT, because of all the bitching, they announced we were going back to BCBS. I had one last paycheck to deposit whatever I wanted/could into that account, and that was it.

I still had money on that fucking card until last year.

How did BCBS welcome our company back? By raising the rates 11%. And, yup, around 10% avg every year since.

But, to your point... the company thinks they're doing what's in the employee's best interest by trying to keep the employee paid portion as low as possible.

But, to do so, they're upping the co-pays and deductibles every year.

I would love to see what the increased premium cost would have been, vs. the amount I paid in higher co-pays and deductibles. I would bet that I ended up paying more this way.

[ozzie]

you'd probably feel better
if they'd color-code their invoices

When there's a call back to another thread, I never know which one to respond to.

Yup, I'm anal retentive about a lot of things. Not ashamed of it. I landed a pretty damn good position mainly based on organizational skills and managing people, problems and handling logistics. It carries over into my personal life often.

[RoseBlood]

Powerful Argument For Gay Marriage From A Republican:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/CbmbdWK6338" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Snacks]

Powerful Argument For Gay Marriage From A Republican:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/CbmbdWK6338" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

and at 3:25 we see why she now feels this way and is going against her party. sorry i cant feel for her or take repubs serious when they only side with these things when it hits home. the right is so anti choice in many things in peoples personal lives yet only are for those choices when they or their family members are affected. they use religion for why they are against so many things but once a family member is gay or wants an abortion etc then they are ok. bull shit.

[RoseBlood]

and at 3:25 we see why she now feels this way and is going against her party. sorry i cant feel for her or take repubs serious when they only side with these things when it hits home. the right is so anti choice in many things in peoples personal lives yet only are for those choices when they or their family members are affected. they use religion for why they are against so many things but once a family member is gay or wants an abortion etc then they are ok. bull shit.
I agree with what you're saying, the point she makes should hit home for all Americans regardless of party lines. It's not about feeling for her or taking Repubs seriously, it's about garnishing as much support for a human rights issue as possible.

[hanso]

Different topic but churches, catholic hospitals under Obamacare are being forced to provide contraceptives and the morning after pill. The administration might back off from that.


On another note. Tax all Churches, Synogagues, Mosques, and other houses of worship

Answer is to do away with religious hospitals.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

and at 3:25 we see why she now feels this way and is going against her party. sorry i cant feel for her or take repubs serious when they only side with these things when it hits home. the right is so anti choice in many things in peoples personal lives yet only are for those choices when they or their family members are affected. they use religion for why they are against so many things but once a family member is gay or wants an abortion etc then they are ok. bull shit.

Yup


http://www.nydailynews.com/news/dick-cheney-lobbied-maryland-gay-marriage-bill-report-article-1.1025192