View Full Version : Obama Signs Order Reversing Ban On Stem Cell Research
drusilla
03-09-2009, 08:18 AM
WASHINGTON - President Barack Obama said Monday he is allowing federal taxpayer dollars to fund significantly broader research on embryonic stem cells because "medical miracles do not happen simply by accident," and promised his administration would make up for the ground lost under his predecessor.... (http://www.nypost.com/seven/03092009/news/nationalnews/obama_to_undue_bushs_limits_on_stem_cell_158761.ht m)
angrymissy
03-09-2009, 08:19 AM
Excellent.:clap:
MacVittie
03-09-2009, 08:21 AM
nice to have a president who wants to look forward, scientifically speaking
Dougie Brootal
03-09-2009, 08:32 AM
thank fucking god
ChrisTheCop
03-09-2009, 08:34 AM
Did we vote on this? Or is he just doing with our money what he feels like doing?
Like every other president.
Fezticle98
03-09-2009, 08:36 AM
Did we vote on this? Or is he just doing with our money what he feels like doing?
Like every other president.
Yes, it is still a representative democracy.
drusilla
03-09-2009, 08:40 AM
Did we vote on this? Or is he just doing with our money what he feels like doing?
Like every other president.
if he keeps going in this direction, he can do whatever the hell he wants
angrymissy
03-09-2009, 08:45 AM
Did we vote on this? Or is he just doing with our money what he feels like doing?
Like every other president.
I'd rather have my money go towards this than a billion other things I can think of.
Did we vote on this? Or is he just doing with our money what he feels like doing?
Like every other president.
If you had to vote on every single thing the government spends money on you'd have time for nothing else.
ChrisTheCop
03-09-2009, 08:51 AM
Yes, it is still a representative democracy.
if he keeps going in this direction, he can do whatever the hell he wants
I'd rather have my money go towards this than a billion other things I can think of.
Just testing ya. I am personally all for stem cell research, and the inevitable cloning for harvest that will come.
Just odd that we have no problem with a prez signing stuff willy nilly as long as its stuff WE agree with, whereas just a few short months ago, we wouldve complained. There ARE a large amount of American Citizens who are vehemently against Stem Cell Research, just so we know.
underdog
03-09-2009, 08:58 AM
Just testing ya. I am personally all for stem cell research, and the inevitable cloning for harvest that will come.
Just odd that we have no problem with a prez signing stuff willy nilly as long as its stuff WE agree with, whereas just a few short months ago, we wouldve complained. There ARE a large amount of American Citizens who are vehemently against Stem Cell Research, just so we know.
We're allowed to voice our pleasure and displeasure in our leaders and their decisions (most of which we never vote on) in this society. We vote on people who we think will make decisions we agree with.
angrymissy
03-09-2009, 09:02 AM
We're allowed to voice our pleasure and displeasure in our leaders and their decisions (most of which we never vote on) in this society. We vote on people who we think will make decisions we agree with.
And in this case, Obama is following through on a campaign promise. I voted for him because I wanted him to make these types of decisions.
Just odd that we have no problem with a prez signing stuff willy nilly as long as its stuff WE agree with, whereas just a few short months ago, we wouldve complained. There ARE a large amount of American Citizens who are vehemently against Stem Cell Research, just so we know.
religion doesn't govern the government, the constitution does
Furtherman
03-09-2009, 09:17 AM
This is great news.
booster11373
03-09-2009, 09:42 AM
religion doesn't govern the government, the constitution does
not for the last 8 years
ToiletCrusher
03-09-2009, 09:45 AM
I for one am happy. Should a woman decide to not have a child (unlike octomom), why not offer your embryo up to something that can benefit all of mankind (potentially)?
boosterp
03-09-2009, 09:45 AM
This is excellent news, finally we do not have a religious movement governing our population. Plus, from a scientific view we can finally move forward on planned research that will ultimately benefit the populous.
ToiletCrusher
03-09-2009, 09:52 AM
This is excellent news, finally we do not have a religious movement governing our population. Plus, from a scientific view we can finally move forward on planned research that will ultimately benefit the populous.
I completely agree. If other nations, that at time the US has tried to emulate, can do it, why do we turn our noses up to it?
That said, another thing would be the way some South American countries that have made a transition to natural gas fueled vehicles are suppliers of oil to the US as well. Though this is a separate thought.
The US is basically a decade behind on the science, we've made some progress on it but we're in the stone age while most of Europe and the Pacific Rim are in the iron age. We'll see the first successful reversal of heart disease in Germany or Britain by the time we're figuring out how we even want to proceed in attempting to fix a damaged heart.
ToiletCrusher
03-09-2009, 10:00 AM
The US is basically a decade behind on the science, we've made some progress on it but we're in the stone age while most of Europe and the Pacific Rim are in the iron age. We'll see the first successful reversal of heart disease in Germany or Britain by the time we're figuring out how we even want to proceed in attempting to fix a damaged heart.
Also a valid point but, the US has made many more advancements in the treatment of psychosocial disorders in the past 50 years than any other nation and I am not talking about medication treatments.
But, we still will be behind other countries because we are less likely to accept any treatment that isn't going to appease everyone. That's the problem here, too many special interest groups that hold up advancements.
The US is basically a decade behind on the science, we've made some progress on it but we're in the stone age while most of Europe and the Pacific Rim are in the iron age. We'll see the first successful reversal of heart disease in Germany or Britain by the time we're figuring out how we even want to proceed in attempting to fix a damaged heart.
This is why allowing a religious minority to dictate national policy is horrible public governance.
Not only does being behind the curve on the innovation of stem cell research hurt our citizenry in public health, but it also hurts us in the global economy. If we would be leading in this research, we could be the nation that could lead the technological development.
boosterp
03-09-2009, 10:06 AM
The US is basically a decade behind on the science, we've made some progress on it but we're in the stone age while most of Europe and the Pacific Rim are in the iron age. We'll see the first successful reversal of heart disease in Germany or Britain by the time we're figuring out how we even want to proceed in attempting to fix a damaged heart.
We are also well behind England in developing treatments for things like pain using THC derivatives. I spent 4 years of my career in pain research and there is so much we could learn from England in this category.
ToiletCrusher
03-09-2009, 10:08 AM
This is why allowing a religious minority to dictate national policy is horrible public governance.
Not only does being behind the curve on the innovation of stem cell research hurt our citizenry in public health, but it also hurts us in the global economy. If we would be leading in this research, we would be the nation that could lead the technological development.
Not to give props to my hometown but this decision makes a great impact on one of the nation's leading cancer research institutes, Roswell Park in Buffalo. Even when Clinton was in office, the type of research they wanted to do was limited. When Bush came to office, the research institute lost many jobs because of the direction they were going in (the emergence of stem cell research). Now, this institute stands to gain not only federal funding but the much more popular, private sector funding. This will bring a slew of white collar jobs, jobs for recent college graduates and make the entire health care industry here benefit from it.
So, yes, in the global economy this makes a huge difference. We could as a nation once again be a big draw for these types of jobs.
Not to give props to my hometown but this decision makes a great impact on one of the nation's leading cancer research institutes, Roswell Park in Buffalo. Even when Clinton was in office, the type of research they wanted to do was limited. When Bush came to office, the research institute lost many jobs because of the direction they were going in (the emergence of stem cell research). Now, this institute stands to gain not only federal funding but the much more popular, private sector funding. This will bring a slew of white collar jobs, jobs for recent college graduates and make the entire health care industry here benefit from it.
So, yes, in the global economy this makes a huge difference. We could as a nation once again be a big draw for these types of jobs.
If you take the same idea and apply it to "green technology" we should be thinking in the same direction. In the global economy, a premium is placed on the "brain jobs" and they both could be a huge source for economic stability/development.
The fact that we haven't thought like this is a major drag on our economy.
ToiletCrusher
03-09-2009, 10:20 AM
If you take the same idea and apply it to "green technology" we should be thinking in the same direction. In the global economy, a premium is placed on the "brain jobs" and they both could be a huge source for economic stability/development.
The fact that we haven't thought like this is a major drag on our economy.
Exactly, white collar jobs spur blue collar jobs. When we invest into new technologies and create more of these caliber jobs, we naturally see an increase in that region in more traditional service industry jobs.
Green jobs are just like medical research jobs. We need them.
booster11373
03-09-2009, 10:20 AM
This is why allowing a religious minority to dictate national policy is horrible public governance.
Not only does being behind the curve on the innovation of stem cell research hurt our citizenry in public health, but it also hurts us in the global economy. If we would be leading in this research, we could be the nation that could lead the technological development.
Here is the thing those people dont care, a large minority of them actualy believe and hope that the world as they know it will cease to exist when a jewish zombie falls from the sky and starts kicking ass
Why should they care about Americas place in terms of innovation and technology
Exactly, white collar jobs spur blue collar jobs. When we invest into new technologies and create more of these caliber jobs, we naturally see an increase in that region in more traditional service industry jobs.
Green jobs are just like medical research jobs. We need them.
Lets face the cold, hard truth: The nerds are now the key to our economy.
Exactly, white collar jobs spur blue collar jobs. When we invest into new technologies and create more of these caliber jobs, we naturally see an increase in that region in more traditional service industry jobs.
Green jobs are just like medical research jobs. We need them.
exactly, most of the south and midwest has energy reserves just begging to be tapped, be it geothermal along/around the fault lines, wind or tidal
if america got its shit in gear and was prepared to conserve energy and move away from hydrocarbons and coal we'd be in terrific shape
unfortunately, most of these technologies don't have the same profit margin without significant tax credits/breaks/incentives
ToiletCrusher
03-09-2009, 10:28 AM
Lets face the cold, hard truth: The nerds are now the key to our economy.
Bless their souls.
Caseyelan
03-09-2009, 10:39 AM
I love this.
LOVE.
This is the exact reason I voted for him.
boosterp
03-09-2009, 10:43 AM
exactly, most of the south and midwest has energy reserves just begging to be tapped, be it geothermal along/around the fault lines, wind or tidal
if america got its shit in gear and was prepared to conserve energy and move away from hydrocarbons and coal we'd be in terrific shape
unfortunately, most of these technologies don't have the same profit margin without significant tax credits/breaks/incentives
Texas has the largest amount of wind power generated in the US. My electric company (thank you deregulation) sells electricity that is solely wind generated. Texas is adding more wind farms and private investors have pumped millions into the project.
TheMojoPin
03-09-2009, 10:50 AM
Here is the thing those people dont care, a large minority of them actualy believe and hope that the world as they know it will cease to exist when a jewish zombie falls from the sky and starts kicking ass
AIM FOR THE HEAD!
Is there a provision that harvests the stem cells from violent prisoners? Because that would be so win-win.
ToiletCrusher
03-09-2009, 10:56 AM
Is there a provision that harvests stem cells the from violent prisoners? Because that would be so win-win.
What an amazing idea. Impregnate women prisoners and then rob the embryo from them the same way they rob our tax dollars. Not being sarcastic, I am rather serious.
ChrisTheCop
03-09-2009, 11:06 AM
What an amazing idea. Impregnate women prisoners and then rob the embryo from them the same way they rob our tax dollars. Not being sarcastic, I am rather serious.
I'm in!!
ToiletCrusher
03-09-2009, 11:07 AM
I'm in!!
Conjugal visits in the name of science!
boosterp
03-09-2009, 11:08 AM
What an amazing idea. Impregnate women prisoners and then rob the embryo from them the same way they rob our tax dollars. Not being sarcastic, I am rather serious.
You'd have to be an insider to realize the difficulty of doing anything research related with prisoners. It can be quite mind boggling, time consuming, and trying to fit a study withing regulations that is an expensive process even before trying to get the study approved. I'd rather rob the homeless chicks than try to get into the prisons.
Edit: we protect our prisoners better than the homeless.
brettmojo
03-09-2009, 11:17 AM
There ARE a large amount of American Citizens who are vehemently against Stem Cell Research, just so we know.
There's also a large amount of American citizens who think The Flintstones was historically accurate.
Surprisingly enough a lot of them are the same people.
brettmojo
03-09-2009, 11:21 AM
Lets face the cold, hard truth: The nerds are now the key to our economy.
http://media.pegasusnews.com/img/photos/2006/04/04/revenge.jpg
ChrisTheCop
03-09-2009, 11:22 AM
There's also a large amount of American citizens who think The Flintstones was historically accurate.
Surprisingly enough a lot of them are the same people.
You cant come into a Ron and Fez discussion and throw out a Ron Bennington quote as if it were your own!
This isnt a Tenbats dinner party.
ToiletCrusher
03-09-2009, 11:42 AM
You'd have to be an insider to realize the difficulty of doing anything research related with prisoners. It can be quite mind boggling, time consuming, and trying to fit a study withing regulations that is an expensive process even before trying to get the study approved. I'd rather rob the homeless chicks than try to get into the prisons.
Edit: we protect our prisoners better than the homeless.
I have worked with people in prisons in terms of research regarding child protection services related issues. I know how hard it can be.
Texas has the largest amount of wind power generated in the US. My electric company (thank you deregulation) sells electricity that is solely wind generated. Texas is adding more wind farms and private investors have pumped millions into the project.
yeah but that is the problem, the ideal states are already proving that it is fantastic but the less-than-ideals are being ignored because there is less incentive to generate "eco power" from there.
keithy_19
03-09-2009, 12:37 PM
yeah but that is the problem, the ideal states are already proving that it is fantastic but the less-than-ideals are being ignored because there is less incentive to generate "epo power" from there.
Epo power?!
brettmojo
03-09-2009, 12:38 PM
You cant come into a Ron and Fez discussion and throw out a Ron Bennington quote as if it were your own!
This isnt a Tenbats dinner party.
Great minds think alike, what can I say?
TheMojoPin
03-09-2009, 12:39 PM
Epo power?!
A car powered by insanity just doesn't seem too practical.
SatCam
03-09-2009, 12:52 PM
Obama signed an order reversing the ban on the federal government funding stem cell research.
keithy_19
03-09-2009, 12:52 PM
A car powered by insanity just doesn't seem too practical.
They also said a black man would never be president. Ye with little faith. I'd expect better from you Mojo.
if he keeps going in this direction, he can do whatever the hell he wantsI want to see an upward direction on the stock market first, we can cure the crippled and in firmed later, the walking need money now.
This is why allowing a religious minority to dictate national policy is horrible public governance.
Not only does being behind the curve on the innovation of stem cell research hurt our citizenry in public health, but it also hurts us in the global economy. If we would be leading in this research, we could be the nation that could lead the technological development.
But havent you heard, climatology is now as bad as a religion.
Worst news ever. You're all incredibly short sighted. Wait until we have an overpopulated planet where the average citizen is 113 years old.
People have to die, you know. I shan't partake in this President's flirtations with immortality.
ToiletCrusher
03-09-2009, 05:41 PM
Worst news ever. You're all incredibly short sighted. Wait until we have an overpopulated planet where the average citizen is 113 years old.
People have to die, you know. I shan't partake in this President's flirtations with immortality.
I see your point and raise you a Ritz cracker.
Worst news ever. You're all incredibly short sighted. Wait until we have an overpopulated planet where the average citizen is 113 years old.
People have to die, you know. I shan't partake in this President's flirtations with immortality.
Yeah what is he, playing god or sumtin'? A pox on his whole administration.
DarkHippie
03-09-2009, 06:10 PM
Worst news ever. You're all incredibly short sighted. Wait until we have an overpopulated planet where the average citizen is 113 years old.
People have to die, you know. I shan't partake in this President's flirtations with immortality.
lets kill all the doctors too.
IamFogHat
03-09-2009, 06:11 PM
Yay! About fucking time America.
lets kill all the doctors too.
Now yer talkin'!!!
Well, except for Dr. Steve.
ToiletCrusher
03-09-2009, 06:30 PM
Now yer talkin'!!!
Well, except for Dr. Steve.
What advice has he given that hasn't led to me being in the ER? None!
What advice has he given that hasn't led to me being in the ER? None!
While that may or may not be true, he bought me dinner and filled me with homemade booze when I visited him in Tennessee. For that he has earned a special place in my heart forever.
KnoxHarrington
03-09-2009, 07:25 PM
Obama signed an order reversing the ban on the federal government funding stem cell research.
I might be jumping on you unfairly, but I HATE this bullshit canard the right wing has spread about this. "Oh, these greedy scientists just want you to pay so they can do weird experiments with dead babies! They have stem cells they can use anyway! And if they want to do this weird-ass shit, let them do it on their own dime anyway!"
This is extremely theoretical research years away from practical application. Private funding isn't going to touch it. The vast majority of this research is funded by governments. A ban on federal funding was, in effect, a ban on such research entirely.
I might be jumping on you unfairly, but I HATE this bullshit canard the right wing has spread about this. "Oh, these greedy scientists just want you to pay so they can do weird experiments with dead babies! They have stem cells they can use anyway! And if they want to do this weird-ass shit, let them do it on their own dime anyway!"
This is extremely theoretical research years away from practical application. Private funding isn't going to touch it. The vast majority of this research is funded by governments. A ban on federal funding was, in effect, a ban on such research entirely.
Oh Knox! :wub:
scottinnj
03-09-2009, 08:19 PM
As one who is not comfortable with this, let me say first-congratulations, your side won, and now you have federal funding of embryonic stem cell research.
Please don't think this means that cures are just around the corner though. I got very tired of the BS the left was propogating throughout the last 8 years that Bush somehow cost lives because of his decision.
Private funding was in place, but like Knox said, there wasn't much compared to the mountain of cash federal funding could bring to the research. Bush's decision, however didn't affect any state from funding embryonic stem cell research. In fact, NJ shortly after the federal ban began its own funding for schools to do embryonic stem cell research. So don't think embryonic stem cell research ground to a halt due to Bush, or the research was relegated to workbenches in the back of CVS pharmacies. It was out there, and it was happening. It has also been happening in countries that fully funded embryonic stem cell research with their tax dollars. And I ask you, where is the progress?
Embryonic stem cells are easier to make then adult stem cells, they live longer and can be used to make just about any type of cell, like heart tissue or help grow parts of the nervous system.
The drawbacks are that they have difficulty merging with the tissue they are introduced to, and have a higher rejection rate from the host then adult stem cells. They also have a tendency to become tumeric (cancerous) more so then adult stem cells.
So again, congratulations on getting Bush's decision reversed. But remember, this does not automatically result in cures. Embryonic stem cell research has existed here in this country and overseas despite the Bush federal ban, and eight years later the medical community is not that much closer to basic answers regarding tissue integration and reducing the rate of tumeric cells. So does the introduction of US federal dollars magically speed things up? I'll take a wait and see attitude on that. On this topic though, I'd gladly be wrong and hopefully we'll be able to see some progress. I just wouldn't pop open the champagne bottles just yet.
keithy_19
03-09-2009, 08:29 PM
As one who is not comfortable with this, let me say first-congratulations, your side won, and now you have federal funding of embryonic stem cell research.
Please don't think this means that cures are just around the corner though. I got very tired of the BS the left was propogating throughout the last 8 years that Bush somehow cost lives because of his decision.
Private funding was in place, but like Knox said, there wasn't much compared to the mountain of cash federal funding could bring to the research. Bush's decision, however didn't affect any state from funding embryonic stem cell research. In fact, NJ shortly after the federal ban began its own funding for schools to do embryonic stem cell research. So don't think embryonic stem cell research ground to a halt due to Bush, or the research was relegated to workbenches in the back of CVS pharmacies. It was out there, and it was happening. It has also been happening in countries that fully funded embryonic stem cell research with their tax dollars. And I ask you, where is the progress?
Embryonic stem cells are easier to make then adult stem cells, they live longer and can be used to make just about any type of cell, like heart tissue or help grow parts of the nervous system.
The drawbacks are that they have difficulty merging with the tissue they are introduced to, and have a higher rejection rate from the host then adult stem cells. They also have a tendency to become tumeric (cancerous) more so then adult stem cells.
So again, congratulations on getting Bush's decision reversed. But remember, this does not automatically result in cures. Embryonic stem cell research has existed here in this country and overseas despite the Bush federal ban, and eight years later the medical community is not that much closer to basic answers regarding tissue integration and reducing the rate of tumeric cells. So does the introduction of US federal dollars magically speed things up? I'll take a wait and see attitude on that. On this topic though, I'd gladly be wrong and hopefully we'll be able to see some progress. I just wouldn't pop open the champagne bottles just yet.
I like you Scott.
I might be jumping on you unfairly, but I HATE this bullshit canard the right wing has spread about this. "Oh, these greedy scientists just want you to pay so they can do weird experiments with dead babies! They have stem cells they can use anyway! And if they want to do this weird-ass shit, let them do it on their own dime anyway!"
This is extremely theoretical research years away from practical application. Private funding isn't going to touch it. The vast majority of this research is funded by governments. A ban on federal funding was, in effect, a ban on such research entirely.
Actually private research has got most of the medical advances in the 20th century, some can say it was funded by government because a little was done at public universities but most was either done in private universities.
Now if you want to say government has funded military technology and helped us found the internet then yeah, to bad they dont get royalties......
Nancy Reagan praises Obama (http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20090309/pl_politico/19787;_ylt=AlRNGyaN7pVYirR7aDo3W8ms0NUE;_ylu=X3oDM TFlc2p0Mm11BHBvcwM4NQRzZWMDYWNjb3JkaW9uX3BvbGl0aWN zBHNsawNuYW5jeXJlYWdhbnA-)
Under fire from congressional Republicans for lifting restrictions on stem cell research, President Barack Obama got a powerful endorsement for his move Monday from Nancy Reagan, the former president’s wife.
“I’m very grateful that President Obama has lifted the restrictions on federal funding for embryonic stem cell research,” she wrote in a statement released shortly after Obama reversed the Bush administration limits. “These new rules will now make it possible for scientists to move forward. I urge researchers to make use of the opportunities that are available to them and to do all they can to fulfill the promise that stem cell research offers."
Nancy Reagan has been an outspoken advocate of stem cell research — and scientists hope that the research could someday lead to a cure for Alzheimer’s disease, which afflicted her late husband, Ronald Reagan.
Her statement also illustrates how support for the research crosses party lines, even though many in the anti-abortion movement strongly oppose the research on moral and ethical grounds.
I think that endorsement says a lot about this particular issue. Certainly I think proponents of stem cell research of any form will admit that it isn't an "automatic" that research will equate to fast cures. However delaying funding and research will not move the meter either.
As I've stated, I think its bad public health policy and bad economic policy to delay the funding any longer.
sailor
03-10-2009, 03:21 AM
What an amazing idea. Impregnate women prisoners and then rob the embryo from them the same way they rob our tax dollars. Not being sarcastic, I am rather serious.
here begins the slippery slope? babies being conceived simply for research is one of the reasons i'm ambivalent about this.
i also think it's ironic people will constantly bitch about drug companies and their profits, but now you all want to pay to do their r&d for them. doesn't that part bother anyone a bit? again, the research wasn't illegal, just the gov't wasn't paying for it.
if they do find some "miracle" cure for something, i can't wait for the thread here bitching about how much it costs.
and epo, all you quote says about this issue is that one old woman is in favor of it. don't go provin' mojo was right about you all along.
IMSlacker
03-10-2009, 03:27 AM
if they do find some "miracle" cure for something, i can't wait for the thread here bitching about how much it costs.
But we're gonna have universal health care. Free clone livers for everyone! Drinks are on me!
boosterp
03-10-2009, 04:02 AM
Please don't think this means that cures are just around the corner though
Actually, building on the knowledge we have and that that is all ready peer reviewed, duplicated, and published there are advance "just around the corner."
Private funding was in place, but like Knox said, there wasn't much compared to the mountain of cash federal funding could bring to the research.
So very true, hence why the research in this area nearly ground to a halt.
Bush's decision, however didn't affect any state from funding embryonic stem cell research. In fact, NJ shortly after the federal ban began...
State funding does not even begin to compare to NIH dollars, California is proof.
So don't think embryonic stem cell research ground to a halt due to Bush, ...
See above, I did say nearly. It is like having a school zone on a freeway.
It has also been happening in countries that fully funded embryonic stem cell research with their tax dollars. And I ask you, where is the progress?
There has been a ton of progress in areas such as endocrine disorders such as diabetes and neurology such as spinal cord disorders. Look it up.
The drawbacks are that they have difficulty merging with the tissue they are introduced to, and have a higher rejection rate from the host then adult stem cells. They also have a tendency to become tumeric (cancerous) more so then adult stem cells.
This is not entirely true. Since embryonic stem cells are not yet specialized they have an unique ability to adapt to their environment which makes the rejection rates slim to none. As far as tumors go, adult stem cells have the same rate as embryonic if I remember correctly. Even then the chance is slim that a tumor develops because other scientists have begun to perfect a delivery method that further reduces this chance. Even then a tumor does not mean cancer, cancer cells are very different where a benign tumor can be of the same tissue as the surrounding healthy tissue.
So much to address here. Look at the red comments.
here begins the slippery slope? babies being conceived simply for research is one of the reasons i'm ambivalent about this.
That only happens in the movies.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/22/Parts_The_Clonus_Horror_%28poster%29.jpg
here begins the slippery slope? babies being conceived simply for research is one of the reasons i'm ambivalent about this.
i also think it's ironic people will constantly bitch about drug companies and their profits, but now you all want to pay to do their r&d for them. doesn't that part bother anyone a bit? again, the research wasn't illegal, just the gov't wasn't paying for it..
There are already babies conceived simply as improving the odds of conception through in vitro fertilization. The same sort of babies that are essentially thrown out when the procedure is a success. The same sort of babies that can be used for stem cell research. If we're already wantonly destroying life, we might as well gain something out of it.
Also, the drug companies are by and large not profitable. The only real success story is Pfizer because of Viagra. Meanwhile, essential drugs like antibiotics are basically losses and never make their money back from their research. Governments must provide incentive for innovation since often times innovation isn't immediately profitable. Capitalism is often times at odds with innovation so the scary jackboot of socialism has to show up.
Dougie Brootal
03-10-2009, 05:52 AM
Worst news ever. You're all incredibly short sighted. Wait until we have an overpopulated planet where the average citizen is 113 years old.
People have to die, you know. I shan't partake in this President's flirtations with immortality.
but gvac, dont you want my diabetes cured?:glurps:
KatPw
03-10-2009, 05:59 AM
here begins the slippery slope? babies being conceived simply for research is one of the reasons i'm ambivalent about this.
I think the slippery slope really begins with IVF. We create multiple embryos in order for someone to have a biological child. We then either have leftover embryos, or cases like the crazy lady in California. Yes, some embryos are "adopted" by other couples for their own IVF, and some people are willing to pay to keep their own frozen. But what about all the embryos that no one wants to pay to keep frozen? Those just get incinerated. Better that they are used for good than be burned.
ecobag2
03-10-2009, 06:24 AM
This thread makes me ravenously hungry.
KatPw
03-10-2009, 06:30 AM
This thread makes me ravenously hungry.
Perhaps a nice fried egg sandwich is in order.
TheMojoPin
03-10-2009, 06:35 AM
There are already babies conceived simply as improving the odds of conception through in vitro fertilization. The same sort of babies that are essentially thrown out when the procedure is a success. The same sort of babies that can be used for stem cell research. If we're already wantonly destroying life, we might as well gain something out of it.
Mmmmmm, wonton baby soup.
KnoxHarrington
03-10-2009, 07:01 AM
Actually private research has got most of the medical advances in the 20th century, some can say it was funded by government because a little was done at public universities but most was either done in private universities.
Now if you want to say government has funded military technology and helped us found the internet then yeah, to bad they dont get royalties......
Perhaps eventually private research gets it in a form that can be actually used, but almost all of it is built on discoveries made through public financing.
Saying "a little was done at public universities" is a laughable statement. Perhaps, but the "little" was what started the whole goddam thing out in the first place.
KnoxHarrington
03-10-2009, 07:04 AM
I think the slippery slope really begins with IVF. We create multiple embryos in order for someone to have a biological child. We then either have leftover embryos, or cases like the crazy lady in California. Yes, some embryos are "adopted" by other couples for their own IVF, and some people are willing to pay to keep their own frozen. But what about all the embryos that no one wants to pay to keep frozen? Those just get incinerated. Better that they are used for good than be burned.
And here's the thing: you might only need cells extracted from embryos for a while. Once the research gets going, it may become possible to clone new cells from existing ones, meaning no more "babies" (sic) need to be used anyway.
But the shit the Bush Administration ban was leaving scientists with (most of those lines were either played out or outright tainted) really harmed the chances of getting there.
boosterp
03-10-2009, 07:05 AM
And here's the thing: you might only need cells extracted from embryos for a while. Once the research gets going, it may become possible to clone new cells from existing ones, meaning no more "babies" (sic) need to be used anyway.
But the shit the Bush Administration ban was leaving scientists with (most of those lines were either played out or outright tainted) really harmed the chances of getting there.
So true.
Nancy Reagan praises Obama (http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20090309/pl_politico/19787;_ylt=AlRNGyaN7pVYirR7aDo3W8ms0NUE;_ylu=X3oDM TFlc2p0Mm11BHBvcwM4NQRzZWMDYWNjb3JkaW9uX3BvbGl0aWN zBHNsawNuYW5jeXJlYWdhbnA-)
I think that endorsement says a lot about this particular issue. Certainly I think proponents of stem cell research of any form will admit that it isn't an "automatic" that research will equate to fast cures. However delaying funding and research will not move the meter either.
As I've stated, I think its bad public health policy and bad economic policy to delay the funding any longer.Well dropping rules against federal funding isnt a big deal, it was a bigger deal that bush didnt let anyone use embryonic stem cells even banned it for private research which is why a lot of that was done outside the US. There appears to be a big boost for alzheimers and dementia patients in the stem cell study so there is a big reason why shes supports this as wold anyone who has had someone go through those stages. Its painful to see suffering in family members.
Perhaps eventually private research gets it in a form that can be actually used, but almost all of it is built on discoveries made through public financing.
Saying "a little was done at public universities" is a laughable statement. Perhaps, but the "little" was what started the whole goddam thing out in the first place.
Not exactly, a lot of groundbreaking discoveries were through private endowments or private universities, there are very few public university facilities that can come close to private universities in the research department.
Tenbatsuzen
03-10-2009, 02:38 PM
As one who is not comfortable with this, let me say first-congratulations, your side won, and now you have federal funding of embryonic stem cell research.
Please don't think this means that cures are just around the corner though. I got very tired of the BS the left was propogating throughout the last 8 years that Bush somehow cost lives because of his decision.
He retarded the growth of science. JFK laid a challenge out in 1960 to get to the moon. We were there in 9 years.
As for cures being around the corner, that HIV treatment that may or may not be a cure was done using stem cells. Granted, we don't know what the situation is, but who knows where that'll lead in 10 years.
There was absolutely no strong ethical or moral reason to stop stem cell research outside of what the religious right was harping on. And they are a minority in this country.
He retarded the growth of science. JFK laid a challenge out in 1960 to get to the moon. We were there in 9 years.
As for cures being around the corner, that HIV treatment that may or may not be a cure was done using stem cells. Granted, we don't know what the situation is, but who knows where that'll lead in 10 years.
There was absolutely no strong ethical or moral reason to stop stem cell research outside of what the religious right was harping on. And they are a minority in this country.
No he let our science in that field get behind a few years, in other places the science went forward just fine, his was just a pussy position since he knew he could never get abortion banned and was kinda like a little kid saying he was going to take his ball and go home. If abortions are legal they should force every doctor to collect stem cells if it could cure any prevalent sickness, I think the most promising treatments are for dementia, alzheimers, and aids currently. Also I thought I read something about cancer being suppressed using stem cells. But most cures are a decade away.
Sarge
03-10-2009, 06:24 PM
It's about time. I was hoping Obama would do this, didn't think it would be this quick. It hits home for me, one of my twin girls had a stroke at birth, and I've read that this research could possibly help someone with her condition.
Tall_James
03-10-2009, 06:44 PM
MUST HAVE MORE DELICIOUS STEM CELLS!
http://anamericanwarning.com/community/photos/hillary/images/550/424x375.aspx
thejives
03-10-2009, 06:56 PM
This thread is fun to read.
There's no argument here. This is a good thing. Sure, some people might think it's a bad thing, but they didn't care what we thought for 8 years and then they lost an election.
boosterp
03-10-2009, 06:58 PM
No he let our science in that field get behind a few years, in other places the science went forward just fine, his was just a pussy position since he knew he could never get abortion banned and was kinda like a little kid saying he was going to take his ball and go home. If abortions are legal they should force every doctor to collect stem cells if it could cure any prevalent sickness, I think the most promising treatments are for dementia, alzheimers, and aids currently. Also I thought I read something about cancer being suppressed using stem cells. But most cures are a decade away.
Alzheimer's is a totally different boat because of the way the plaques develop where as dementia which has several different causes may have some hope. In neurology where we think will be the near future of advancements is Parkinson's. spinal cord disorders/injury, and traumatic brain injury (because the brain can rewire).
Endocrine wise is of course diabetes, a kidney disorder with a portion of your kidneys that act as the main filter (simple terms), and some other diabetic caused problems.
In the gastrointestinal field would be various liver diseases minus Hep C, certain GI cancers, and problems such as Crone's disease.
Of course oncology could greatly benefit from stem cells so the possibilities are numerous.
This info comes from talking to many of my former peers yesterday and today so I have yet to hear from other fields.
Bob Impact
03-10-2009, 07:00 PM
First thing I've agreed with him on. Good job Obama.
Dave's Cackle
03-10-2009, 07:04 PM
No he let our science in that field get behind a few years, in other places the science went forward just fine
Example(s)?
Also I thought I read something about cancer being suppressed using stem cells. But most cures are a decade away.
Thanks to Bush, they're a decade away instead of being closer...
beachbum
03-10-2009, 07:25 PM
I think that if the religious right anti-stem cell people realized what was going on they wouldn't be so freaked out.I have a friend who is a hard core Hannity/Fox guy.He went off on this the other night.After talkling to him for a while I found out that he really didn't have a firm grasp on the concept.Surprise surprise.
These little petri dishes of multi cellular goo are not technically embryos.They are little clumps of fertilized,divided cells that hold the potential of growing into embryos.Once I explained to him that they not only weren't aborting fetus' for experimental purposes and explained that if these "embryos" were not used they were disposed of he wasn't nearly as freaked out.Of course,he still wouldn't agree with it because Sean Hannity wouldn't want him to.
boosterp
03-10-2009, 07:49 PM
I think that if the religious right anti-stem cell people realized what was going on they wouldn't be so freaked out.I have a friend who is a hard core Hannity/Fox guy.He went off on this the other night.After talkling to him for a while I found out that he really didn't have a firm grasp on the concept.Surprise surprise.
These little petri dishes of multi cellular goo are not technically embryos.They are little clumps of fertilized,divided cells that hold the potential of growing into embryos.Once I explained to him that they not only weren't aborting fetus' for experimental purposes and explained that if these "embryos" were not used they were disposed of he wasn't nearly as freaked out.Of course,he still wouldn't agree with it because Sean Hannity wouldn't want him to.
Most embryos that we extract from have yet to even begin to look like a fetus. At 32 (if I remember correctly) cells we have enough embryonic cells to clone. This is just as many if not less than what most in vitro clinics implant into women. I will double check my facts once our medical library here comes back online.
beachbum
03-10-2009, 08:04 PM
Most embryos that we extract from have yet to even begin to look like a fetus. At 32 (if I remember correctly) cells we have enough embryonic cells to clone. This is just as many if not less than what most in vitro clinics implant into women. I will double check my facts once our medical library here comes back online.
That's exactly my point.It's not like they are taking pinkie sized embryos with actual heart beats.If my wife and I utilized a fertility clinic and lets say ended up with 12 fertilized "embryos".Once we conceived and determined that we weren't going to use the rest they would be disposed of.This doesn't mean that we are throwing our children into the trash.Why shouldn't these magical little cells be used to possibly find a cure for cancer,parkinson's disease,alzheimers,or spinal cord injuries?
I personally feel that if these people don't want these cells to be used for medicine they should be forced to implant these "embryos" carry them to full term and raise them as their own.Short of that shut the fuck up.
boosterp
03-10-2009, 08:34 PM
That's exactly my point.It's not like they are taking pinkie sized embryos with actual heart beats.If my wife and I utilized a fertility clinic and lets say ended up with 12 fertilized "embryos".Once we conceived and determined that we weren't going to use the rest they would be disposed of.This doesn't mean that we are throwing our children into the trash.Why shouldn't these magical little cells be used to possibly find a cure for cancer,parkinson's disease,alzheimers,or spinal cord injuries?
I personally feel that if these people don't want these cells to be used for medicine they should be forced to implant these "embryos" carry them to full term and raise them as their own.Short of that shut the fuck up.
But there is an inherent ethical problem in your post. The issue is that you consent for the embryos to serve a certain purpose and you then can determine their disposition. It is not possible for me as a researcher to use your embryos without consent, then we have to add in genetic counciling due to a certain CFR, on top of that we have to specify exactly what will happen to these embryos. It is not an easy regulatory process but it is meant to protect you the donor.
beachbum
03-11-2009, 04:47 AM
I understand the consent issue.My point is that if you are not going to implant them,why throw them away?I'm sure it's more respectful than just banging the dish on the side of the toilet bowl but why should it be?
If people against stem cell research use a fertility clinic what do they do with their unused specimens?Certainly they don't implant them all or we would have a whole lot more octomoms.
angrymissy
03-11-2009, 06:47 AM
I think that if the religious right anti-stem cell people realized what was going on they wouldn't be so freaked out.I have a friend who is a hard core Hannity/Fox guy.He went off on this the other night.After talkling to him for a while I found out that he really didn't have a firm grasp on the concept.Surprise surprise.
These little petri dishes of multi cellular goo are not technically embryos.They are little clumps of fertilized,divided cells that hold the potential of growing into embryos.Once I explained to him that they not only weren't aborting fetus' for experimental purposes and explained that if these "embryos" were not used they were disposed of he wasn't nearly as freaked out.Of course,he still wouldn't agree with it because Sean Hannity wouldn't want him to.
It won't matter.... The new idea being implanted by talk radio - PEOPLE WILL GET PREGNANT AND ABORT FOR MONEY... which from what I understand, it wouldn't even possible to use product of abortion for stem cell research.
topless_mike
03-11-2009, 07:18 AM
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/images/popcorn.gif
ecobag2
03-11-2009, 08:14 AM
MUST HAVE MORE DELICIOUS STEM CELLS!
http://anamericanwarning.com/community/photos/hillary/images/550/424x375.aspx
EXACTLY! Fuckin starvin'.
ecobag2
03-11-2009, 08:24 AM
Honestly knew nothing on this issue before skimming these posts. Im amazed at what IV fert actually is.
Seems the issue is "you're not using my $ for something that I oppose on deep moral grounds." I imagine there are numerous other wasteful and ethically dubious federal money vacuums out there taht dont generatre as much heat.
I think also that its great we dont waste stem cells off something like IV fertilization but youd have to keep some people from actuallyhaving and killing babies too... or something along those lines.
Dont get me wrong - children need to be stopped. But this has potential for getting out of hand it seems. Just potential... I think keeping that in mind is important.
sailor
03-11-2009, 09:39 AM
william saletan in slate (http://www.slate.com/id/2213287/):
On Monday, President Obama lifted the ban on federal funding of stem-cell research using destroyed human embryos. If you support this research, congratulations: You won. Now for your next challenge: Don't lose your soul.
The best way to understand this peril is to look at an issue that has become the mirror image of the stem-cell fight. That issue is torture. On Jan. 22, Obama signed an executive order prohibiting interrogation methods used by the Bush administration to extract information from accused terrorists. "We can abide by a rule that says we don't torture, but that we can still effectively obtain the intelligence that we need," the president declared. "We are willing to observe core standards of conduct not just when it's easy, but also when it's hard."
The next day, former Bush aide Karl Rove accused Obama of endangering the country by impeding interrogations of the enemy. "They don't recognize we're in a war," said Rove. "In a war, you do not take tools that are working and stop using them and say we'll get back to you in four months, six months, eight months, a year, and tell you what we're going to do to replace this valuable tool which has helped keep America safe."'
To most of us, Rove's attack is familiar and infuriating. We believe, as Obama does, that it's possible to save lives without crossing a moral line that might corrupt us. We reject the Bush administration's insistence on using all available methods rather than waiting for scrupulous alternatives. We see how Rove twists Obama's position to hide the moral question and make Obama look obtuse and irresponsible.
The same Bush-Rove tactics are being used today in the stem-cell fight. But they're not coming from the right. They're coming from the left. Proponents of embryo research are insisting that because we're in a life-and-death struggle—in this case, a scientific struggle—anyone who impedes that struggle by renouncing effective tools is irrational and irresponsible. The war on disease is like the war on terror: Either you're with science, or you're against it.
angrymissy
03-11-2009, 09:58 AM
Also from that article:
If you don't want to end up this way—dead to ethics and drifting wherever science takes you—you have to keep the dilemmas alive. You have to remember that conflicting values are at stake. On this point, Obama has been wiser than his supporters. "Many thoughtful and decent people are conflicted about, or strongly oppose, this research," the president acknowledged on Monday. "We will never undertake this research lightly. We will support it only when it is both scientifically worthy and responsibly conducted."
Example(s)?
Thanks to Bush, they're a decade away instead of being closer...
Why do you need examples? Did bush ban stem cell research in every other country? I dont think so.
Do you think that GSK or Pfizer stopped researching because bush banned it here? Are you fucking nuts? They just used that money in other nations, canada for instance and a few european countries.
If you want to bash bush for anything you can bash him for losing jobs that went to other places because of his banning the research here, but it is a fallacy to say that he set it back 10 years. But that kind of thinking is right in line for people that just want to blame bush for everything, the man is pretty much a failure right now, so at least get your blame game straight.
Why do you need examples? Did bush ban stem cell research in every other country? I dont think so.
Do you think that GSK or Pfizer stopped researching because bush banned it here? Are you fucking nuts? They just used that money in other nations, canada for instance and a few european countries.
If you want to bash bush for anything you can bash him for losing jobs that went to other places because of his banning the research here, but it is a fallacy to say that he set it back 10 years. But that kind of thinking is right in line for people that just want to blame bush for everything, the man is pretty much a failure right now, so at least get your blame game straight.
You're absolutely right; he actually has set it back far more than 10 years. This type of research isn't something that can be turned on instantly, our best minds in the field have already left and any sort of foreign researcher have gone to where the opportunities are.
Like I said, you'll see a real world application of stem cell therapy probably for heart disease before you see any sort of noteworthy breakthrough with American stem cell research.
You're absolutely right; he actually has set it back far more than 10 years. This type of research isn't something that can be turned on instantly, our best minds in the field have already left and any sort of foreign researcher have gone to where the opportunities are.
Like I said, you'll see a real world application of stem cell therapy probably for heart disease before you see any sort of noteworthy breakthrough with American stem cell research.
Jesus christ you people are stupid.
Do you really think that all these brightest minds, who get paid a shitload of money to do research by international companies didnt pay to ship them out of this country to do their research?
The only thing bush did on this topic was to deprive the american people of tax dollars on their salaries that went to some other country where the research was being done, get the fuck over it, you can blame bush for a lot of shit but all this did was take the research out of country. And only embryonic stem cell research, not the stem cell research that is still being done here.
Oh and FYI there have already been noteworthy american stem cell research done, try and have actual facts before making an ass out of yourself.
foodcourtdruide
03-12-2009, 07:07 AM
SP1! - Can you try to make your points without announcing how dumb we all are? There's really no reason for it.
EliSnow
03-12-2009, 07:15 AM
SP1! - Can you try to make your points without announcing how dumb we all are? There's really no reason for it.
Or to put it another way: tone it down SP1!. You can make your point without insults. If you can't, you may need a vacation.
Jesus christ you people are stupid.
Do you really think that all these brightest minds, who get paid a shitload of money to do research by international companies didnt pay to ship them out of this country to do their research?
What does that have to do with anything? Researchers follow the money so that they can, you know, research.
The only thing bush did on this topic was to deprive the american people of tax dollars on their salaries that went to some other country where the research was being done, get the fuck over it, you can blame bush for a lot of shit but all this did was take the research out of country. And only embryonic stem cell research, not the stem cell research that is still being done here.
Embryonic stem cell research is the key. Trying to understand stem cells without using ones that are a completely blank slate would be like, well is like trying to read a book with all the consonants removed. Furthermore, the research is essentially -gone- from this country. It's being spearheaded in other countries and it will remain that way. The same way that France embraced nuclear power and is now at the forefront of the field. Nothing is going to change that and with every revision of the technology research money goes there, not here.
Oh and FYI there have already been noteworthy american stem cell research done, try and have actual facts before making an ass out of yourself.
Yes and they're all remarkably impractical and don't really have shit to do with curing the leading cause of death.
What does that have to do with anything? Researchers follow the money so that they can, you know, research.
Embryonic stem cell research is the key. Trying to understand stem cells without using ones that are a completely blank slate would be like, well is like trying to read a book with all the consonants removed. Furthermore, the research is essentially -gone- from this country. It's being spearheaded in other countries and it will remain that way. The same way that France embraced nuclear power and is now at the forefront of the field. Nothing is going to change that and with every revision of the technology research money goes there, not here.
No they dont follow the money, if you are bright the company comes and gets you, thats how it always has been and will continue to be.
You still have have all the research being done by the big pharmaceutical companies, it does not matter where it is done simply because the we always fund it through our over paying of drug prices which funds a shit load of the research. And the only reason we didnt get behind nuclear power was because of 3 mile island then all the environmentalists jumped on that to stop what was actually a cleaner technology but because they said it wasnt worth the risk we stopped.
Yes and they're all remarkably impractical and don't really have shit to do with curing the leading cause of death.
Yes of course, adult stem cell research has not proved viable at all (http://www.jillstanek.com/archives/2008/11/adult_stem_cell_1.html)
Oh and just so you know it was an american researcher that was working out of country (http://blog.wired.com/wiredscience/2007/05/doctor_claims_s.html), like I said, blame him for sending jobs over seas and losing their workers tax revenue but it has not set the research back in the slightest.
Do not keep acting like the research isnt being done, these are major corporations who will get the people to do the research if the money is there, you people act like greed is a new thing.
And fine I can tone it down eli but every time I even provide proof it seems like people cant read all of a sudden.
Yet another article (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601124&refer=home&sid=ac9.rZCRCs8Y)talking about how adult stem cell is leading cures and stopping the progression of illnesses.
Furtherman
03-12-2009, 10:23 AM
The other damaging factor that remains of the U.S. catching up in these scientific trials is that the countries that have been working will most likely come up first with the patients and ownership of any advantages. They'll make better profits.
But all we can do is move forward, and we have the new administration to thank for that!
you're missing the point -- embryonic stem cells are mainly for research, adult stem cells are generally what need to be used because of their availability
also a lot of that aids research was done through cancer research and the human genome project, not really much in the way of independent stem cell research
furthermore, foreign countries will hold sway over who gets to use their stem cell therapy -- if the companies who have moved overseas don't want to play ball they won't really be able to do much in that host country any more
last but not least, curing aids is great and all but that isn't heart disease
The other damaging factor that remains of the U.S. catching up in these scientific trials is that the countries that have been working will most likely come up first with the patients and ownership of any advantages. They'll make better profits.
But all we can do is move forward, and we have the new administration to thank for that!
you're missing the point -- embryonic stem cells are mainly for research, adult stem cells are generally what need to be used because of their availability
also a lot of that aids research was done through cancer research and the human genome project, not really much in the way of independent stem cell research
furthermore, foreign countries will hold sway over who gets to use their stem cell therapy -- if the companies who have moved overseas don't want to play ball they won't really be able to do much in that host country any more
last but not least, curing aids is great and all but that isn't heart disease
I cant believe either one of you actually believe that companies did research in these other countries and think that those countries will refuse to let it come here or that they could even do that? Can we forbid other nations from using drugs developed over here? Its the companies that control that and in this day and age very few drugs are developed strictly by government funding since private funding removes hindrances that our government puts on them.
The companies that develop these drugs are international but the cash cow is the american public, we end up paying for most of the research through our purchases. The actual research has not been set back and it will be here simply because we end up buying all that shit to prolong our pointless lives sitting around watching sports.
Furtherman
03-12-2009, 01:10 PM
I cant believe either one of you actually believe that companies did research in these other countries and think that those countries will refuse to let it come here or that they could even do that? Can we forbid other nations from using drugs developed over here? Its the companies that control that and in this day and age very few drugs are developed strictly by government funding since private funding removes hindrances that our government puts on them..
What?
What I said had nothing to do with.... whatever you just said.
What?
What I said had nothing to do with.... whatever you just said.
It was ongoing and the point is the pharmaceutical company owns that product and get almost anything they want for moving their companies research facility there and employing the locals, along with all the tax revenue the country receives. Just like here in the states when plants get state tax breaks to move to their state to employ the locals, it works the same way just for a country.
However, they're getting plenty of public funding to do their research in the host country. That is their leverage and why they're allowed a certain amount of freedom with their research.
underdog
03-12-2009, 04:38 PM
This should be a poll.
However, they're getting plenty of public funding to do their research in the host country. That is their leverage and why they're allowed a certain amount of freedom with their research.
Again, its not setting any research back, just costing us jobs and tax dollars, my point remains get the blame right just tax revenue, any feasible drugs will be here in no time if they can make money on it.
Its the way of the world.
SonOfSmeagol
03-12-2009, 05:58 PM
I propose a total immediate embryonic ban, no exceptions.
That'll end the debate, be far on the way to ending global warming, and - BONUS - end the rampant bleeding-heart liberal bullshit once and for all - all in about 80-100 years time!
Being heads in a jar, all the right-wingers will be obviously be safe, and will rise up and prevail!
Recyclerz
08-23-2010, 05:35 PM
More judicial activism from right-wing judges
Judge puts kibosh on Federal funding on embryonic stem cell research (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/24/health/policy/24stem.html?_r=1&hp) :ohmy:
It's kind of early to figure out where this will end up but it will be fun to see each side flip their "bedrock" principles (I'm guessing with the right-wing approving the judicial reach and the left being shocked by it) of how the judiciary should act because they agree/disagree with the result.
To me it seems that the judge is over-reaching in overturning an Executive branch policy decision but we'll see how this develops. (for the record I disagreed with W's original policy decision but believed it was within his rights/powers to make it.)
Serpico1103
08-23-2010, 07:47 PM
Original plaintiff in case that won appeal-
“We do not want to see stem cell research that would destroy embryos,” Mr. Stoddart said. “Embryos are preborn human life that should be protected and not destroyed. If there was a way of extracting the stem cells without destroying them, I would not be opposed to it.”
I hate people.
But the judge may have ruled properly. Without eliminating the Dickey Wicker amendment, I do not think Obama has the power to sign that executive order.
Maybe while the Dems still rule they will act on it. Or not.
Kevin
08-23-2010, 07:53 PM
Original plaintiff in case that won appeal-
``We do not want to see stem cell research that would destroy embryos,`` Mr. Stoddart said. ``Embryos are preborn human life that should be protected and not destroyed. If there was a way of extracting the stem cells without destroying them, I would not be opposed to it.``
I hate people.
This is why we will never advance as a civilization..
Dude!
08-23-2010, 08:33 PM
This is why we will never advance as a civilization..
i would have been
in favor of SC research
if you had been
an embryo destroyed
spoon
08-23-2010, 09:31 PM
i would have been
in favor of SC research
if you had been
an embryo destroyed
:lol:
But the ruling is wrong and more short-sighted actions based loosely on religion and it's imposed on us all. We'll just continue to fall behind in everything while the right and left argue on fringe issues to fire up their respective bases. It's time to push religious ideologies aside and start making judgments based on law and decisions on advancement.
Kevin
08-23-2010, 09:47 PM
i would have been
in favor of SC research
if you had been
an embryo destroyed
I would too if you can tell who is your mom and who is your sister..
You Cletus's are very tricky like that.
Dude!
08-24-2010, 06:08 AM
I would too if you can tell who is your mom and who is your sister..
You Cletus's are very tricky like that.
Timmy!
angrymissy
08-24-2010, 06:10 AM
Yes, lets just keep embryos on storage for eternity. That makes much more sense. :blink:
Yes, lets just keep embryos on storage for eternity. That makes much more sense. :blink:
Purgatory?
I wasted some pre-embrionic cells on my wife's tits last night.
angrymissy
08-24-2010, 08:09 AM
I wasted some pre-embrionic cells on my wife's tits last night.
MURDERER!
I wasted some pre-embrionic cells on my wife's tits last night.
MURDERER!
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Furtherman
04-29-2011, 07:58 AM
Sweet.
A federal court has given the Obama administration the go-ahead to continue embryonic stem cell research.
The controversial 2-1 decision Friday is a victory for supporters of federally funded testing for a range of diseases and illnesses.
The U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia lifted an injunction imposed last year by a federal judge, who said all embryonic stem cell research at the National Institutes of Health amounted to destruction of embryos, in violation of congressional spending laws.
The case is Sherley v. Sebelius (10-5287).
foodcourtdruide
04-29-2011, 09:36 AM
Sweet.
Great news!
SonOfSmeagol
04-30-2011, 01:39 PM
I dunno. I understand the potential for scientific gains and all that, and can pretty much agree that the research is a "good thing" for humankind as a whole. But there's something fundamentally sad about destroying human embryos for research purposes.
StanUpshaw
04-30-2011, 01:44 PM
I dunno. I understand the potential for scientific gains and all that, and can pretty much agree that the research is a "good thing" for humankind as a whole. But there's something fundamentally sad about destroying human embryos for research purposes.
They use leftover embryos created for patients undergoing in vitro fertilization. The embryos are being destroyed anyway. This will put them to use instead.
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