View Full Version : i hired someone shitty...
jessicaduh
04-29-2009, 05:14 AM
but at least i only have 2 1/2 weeks before her appointment is over.
i've done everything i can to set a good example, be direct with her about the problems, assist her in setting measurable and detailed goals and a plan of action, be there to support her when she was going through crap, and to assist her in growing professionally...but nothing has sunk in.
i've told her that she probably shouldn't use me as a reference. it really sucks having to be that way...
i can't trust her with anything...i end up being forced to micro-manage; i'd rather get ass-raped by a porcupine than have to micro-manage. she does't retain annnnnnnnything - shit that i told her on day one, two, three, seventeen, eighty-four...you get it.
i think she might also be somewhat unstable...but that's another story.
i hired her in a rush as it was a very busy time of year and someone left unexpectedly. i went basically on experience alone...she had a lot of perfectly relevant experience, much more than any other candidate...and her interview was EXCELLENT. i mean, great. i feel duped.
it all makes me question myself, even though i've hired a number of other staff members before who have all turned out quite well...
when i hired her, i interviewed another candidate who a) did not have one specific piece of experience that i needed most, and b) was somewhat over-qualified...i recommended that candidate to a co-worker for a higher-up job; she was hired and has done beautifully, which makes me question myself slightly less...but still...ugh.
at least it was only a 6 month appointment.
so what do i do if people call me for a reference, or whatever? i know i'm not allowed to say "she sucks," but there are ways to kind of infer that she sucks without saying it explicitly...
Mullenax
04-29-2009, 05:20 AM
Never return the calls of the people hiring her the next time.
I had a person offer to refer me, then after I put in my two weeks all of my subsequent employers would say that they could not reach my references. This caused a red flag for them that I could only combat by giving other good references. It wasn't really a problem, but it did cause at least one major hiring delay.
If you want to cause a red flag without directly warning them, just make it clear that helping her is something you don't have time for.
~Katja~
04-29-2009, 05:39 AM
even if it's a 6 month contract, use a "trial period" to see if she or the next employee hired is a real match. An interview can be great when the person has no skills whatsoever regardless.
In most states employment is at will and you can let her go at any time, especially if she is not fulfilling her job to your satisfaction. You have business to conduct and are not running a charity.
jessicaduh
04-29-2009, 05:48 AM
while that is true, the position that i hired for is part training for the business world, but not the business world itself...i've mentioned before that i work with college students...it's somewhat of a paid internship more than it is a "job" job...so this is the place for them to be acquiring and honing skills...part of my job is to work with them on that.
~Katja~
04-29-2009, 05:56 AM
then don't sugar coat it with her, after telling her that this may not be the field for her to choose a career in, she should also refrain from using you as a reference.
Being nice will do nothing for her and her future.
jessicaduh
04-29-2009, 05:59 AM
believe me, i've been direct as possible. in a way, i think it's made me a better boss in that i've had to develop that ability.
nothing sinks in. i really think she just doesn't give a shit. if i didn't absolutely need some level of help for the next 2 1/2 weeks given how busy i will be, i would let her go early.
Dougie Brootal
04-29-2009, 06:09 AM
i just say "i wouldnt hire them again" that usually works, and they usually dont ask any other questions.
jessicaduh
04-29-2009, 06:10 AM
k...that's not one of those things that someone can sue you over saying, right?
Dougie Brootal
04-29-2009, 06:13 AM
k...that's not one of those things that someone can sue you over saying, right?
no.
jessicaduh
04-29-2009, 06:15 AM
ok, thanks.
Dougie Brootal
04-29-2009, 06:16 AM
yeah budday!
Death Metal Moe
04-29-2009, 06:20 AM
Tell her she should dress a little more sexy. I mean this is her job we're talking about... :innocent:
instrument
04-29-2009, 07:10 AM
Had the same thing happen to me in my old H-R department,
made me implement a skills test portion to the interview.
angrymissy
04-29-2009, 07:16 AM
When I worked for an employment agency, we were only allowed to verify dates of employment and whether or not they were rehirable. We could verify salary with permission from former employee. This is also all that my old company (large corporation) will verify as per corporate policy.
So yeah, if you get called, you can simply say you would not rehire. Give no more details than that and you're set.
hydee
04-29-2009, 07:27 AM
It is hard when you are in the position of employer and teacher. Learning to balance out the two roles is hard and takes a long time, so I don't envy your position in this at all.
I would say that after the end of her time, give her a fairly blunt exit interview. I always found exit interviews even in the worst situations to be a great learning experience for not only the person leaving ( So they know what to improve and work on for the future) but also for the boss in finding out how they can improve their balancing of the roles.
Feedback whether negative of positive is good for everyone.
topless_mike
04-29-2009, 07:34 AM
how bad is it that you cannot even give a professional opinion about somebody with the fear of being sued.
to me, it would suck trying to get an idea of a person from their last employer.
and to me, if i was an employer, its my obligation to give an objective and professional opinion, regardless of my personal feelings towards said person.
jessicaduh
04-29-2009, 07:51 AM
I would say that after the end of her time, give her a fairly blunt exit interview. I always found exit interviews even in the worst situations to be a great learning experience for not only the person leaving ( So they know what to improve and work on for the future) but also for the boss in finding out how they can improve their balancing of the roles.
sage advice..i think i'll do that.
Freitag
04-29-2009, 09:57 AM
Playing Devil's Advocate:
the problem with saying "Will not rehire" is that it may paint a broader picture that might indicate even worse issues that really weren't there. Since you can't give more details, it would make the HR person go, "Why wouldn't you rehire? Was she stealing? Drugs?" etc. etc. And of course, you can't answer those questions.
Doing that might screw her in getting a job where she's a better fit down the road.
Employees not being a good fit happens. It's a fact of life. I would stress to her to NOT use you as a reference, but I wouldn't take the extra step of telling other employers you wouldn't rehire. Especially in this job market.
Dougie Brootal
04-29-2009, 10:17 AM
Playing Devil's Advocate:
the problem with saying "Will not rehire" is that it may paint a broader picture that might indicate even worse issues that really weren't there. Since you can't give more details, it would make the HR person go, "Why wouldn't you rehire? Was she stealing? Drugs?" etc. etc. And of course, you can't answer those questions.
Doing that might screw her in getting a job where she's a better fit down the road.
Employees not being a good fit happens. It's a fact of life. I would stress to her to NOT use you as a reference, but I wouldn't take the extra step of telling other employers you wouldn't rehire. Especially in this job market.
who gives a shit?
jessicaduh
04-29-2009, 10:21 AM
i am definitely planning to tell her not to use me as a reference; i'm just trying to hedge my bets in case someone does call, you dig?
one morning, i came in to find a cash box combination that she had set to 6-6-6. that's kind of retarded and kind of lame and kind of eyebrow raising.
i can't raise one eyebrow, but i always try to. i think it probably looks like i had a stroke, but i do it anyway. in my mind, i'm the rock. in reality, probably more like Dick Clark.
Freitag
04-29-2009, 10:37 AM
who gives a shit?
Because let's say that her exit interview turns on a light. Or maybe, because the ex-employee needs to make money, she takes a job at target just to make ends meet.
Saying "will not rehire" could prevent her from getting a job that she may be better qualified for. It's basically scorching the Earth in a situation where the employee just didn't fit in.
jessicaduh
04-29-2009, 10:40 AM
Because let's say that her exit interview turns on a light. Or maybe, because the ex-employee needs to make money, she takes a job at target just to make ends meet.
Saying "will not rehire" could prevent her from getting a job that she may be better qualified for. It's basically scorching the Earth in a situation where the employee just didn't fit in.
i agree with you.
Dougie Brootal
04-29-2009, 10:40 AM
Because let's say that her exit interview turns on a light. Or maybe, because the ex-employee needs to make money, she takes a job at target just to make ends meet.
Saying "will not rehire" could prevent her from getting a job that she may be better qualified for. It's basically scorching the Earth in a situation where the employee just didn't fit in.
sorry, im in a really bad mood and just being a dick.
please ignore any and all comments made by me.
razorboy
04-29-2009, 10:53 AM
please ignore any and all comments made by me.
We always have buddy.
hydee
04-29-2009, 11:11 AM
Because let's say that her exit interview turns on a light. Or maybe, because the ex-employee needs to make money, she takes a job at target just to make ends meet.
Saying "will not rehire" could prevent her from getting a job that she may be better qualified for. It's basically scorching the Earth in a situation where the employee just didn't fit in.
I agree with you. I mean I did HR for a brief time with a company and sometimes when an exit interview happens there are moments when someone behavior, while still not being what you want it to, will make more sense because of the 1 on 1 encounter.
Also sometimes jobs aren't a good fit. So giving someone the benefit of employment elsewhere is always just the human thing to do.
joepo
04-29-2009, 11:16 AM
I was hired by someone who thinks I'm shitty, but he's a fag so I don't care.
"I eat my own poo"
SatCam
04-29-2009, 04:09 PM
Because let's say that her exit interview turns on a light. Or maybe, because the ex-employee needs to make money, she takes a job at target just to make ends meet.
Saying "will not rehire" could prevent her from getting a job that she may be better qualified for. It's basically scorching the Earth in a situation where the employee just didn't fit in.
Yes good point, BUT she said she told the girl not to use her as a reference. Basically, if you use her as a reference you won't get the job. Simple as that.
Tenbatsuzen
04-29-2009, 06:06 PM
Yes good point, BUT she said she told the girl not to use her as a reference. Basically, if you use her as a reference you won't get the job. Simple as that.
Yes, but HR depts. still call your previous employers to verify previous employment.
Reference is different than verification. Using as a reference means you can get into details about an employee. Verification, you can't outside will you won't you rehire.
jessicaduh
05-06-2009, 12:20 PM
OMG, seriously. dense! i can't take it. i have neither the time nor the desire to micro-manage. :wallbash:
one more week. exit interview. i can do this.
conman823
05-06-2009, 12:38 PM
then don't sugar coat it with her, after telling her that this may not be the field for her to choose a career in, she should also refrain from using you as a reference.
Being nice will do nothing for her and her future.
Exactly. This country has a HUGE problem with being stright forward with people. We act like we have to walk on egg shells with everyone and its bullshit. Business is business.
The post I quoted below is exactly what you should tell this person.
but at least i only have 2 1/2 weeks before her appointment is over.
i've done everything i can to set a good example, be direct with her about the problems, assist her in setting measurable and detailed goals and a plan of action, be there to support her when she was going through crap, and to assist her in growing professionally...but nothing has sunk in.
i've told her that she probably shouldn't use me as a reference. it really sucks having to be that way...
i can't trust her with anything...i end up being forced to micro-manage; i'd rather get ass-raped by a porcupine than have to micro-manage. she does't retain annnnnnnnything - shit that i told her on day one, two, three, seventeen, eighty-four...you get it.
i think she might also be somewhat unstable...but that's another story.
i hired her in a rush as it was a very busy time of year and someone left unexpectedly. i went basically on experience alone...she had a lot of perfectly relevant experience, much more than any other candidate...and her interview was EXCELLENT. i mean, great. i feel duped.
it all makes me question myself, even though i've hired a number of other staff members before who have all turned out quite well...
when i hired her, i interviewed another candidate who a) did not have one specific piece of experience that i needed most, and b) was somewhat over-qualified...i recommended that candidate to a co-worker for a higher-up job; she was hired and has done beautifully, which makes me question myself slightly less...but still...ugh.
at least it was only a 6 month appointment.
so what do i do if people call me for a reference, or whatever? i know i'm not allowed to say "she sucks," but there are ways to kind of infer that she sucks without saying it explicitly...
If someone calls you for a reference just confirm her employment with you for the time. If they press for details then "She didn't fit in well with my staff." End of discussion.
jessicaduh
05-12-2009, 11:49 AM
Yay! she was accepted by the one graduate school she had applied to, so she won't be seeking employment at this time, and the point is moot.
Whew! that is a tremendous load off of my mind. (i'm also very happy for her...i obviously think that she could use some more time before heading into the professional world if she is to best succeed.)
Oh, and, 3 more days.
boosterp
05-12-2009, 11:50 AM
Yay! she was accepted by the one graduate school she had applied to, so she won't be seeking employment at this time, and the point is moot.
Whew! that is a tremendous load off of my mind. (i'm also very happy for her...i obviously think that she could use some more time before heading into the professional world if she is to best succeed.)
Oh, and, 3 more days.
:clap:
Death Metal Moe
05-12-2009, 11:58 AM
Yay! she was accepted by the one graduate school she had applied to, so she won't be seeking employment at this time, and the point is moot.
Whew! that is a tremendous load off of my mind. (i'm also very happy for her...i obviously think that she could use some more time before heading into the professional world if she is to best succeed.)
Oh, and, 3 more days.
Well it's a solution but you really kinda hid from doing anything. Gotta be a little more managerial in the future.
jessicaduh
05-12-2009, 12:09 PM
um, how did i hide, exactly?
Death Metal Moe
05-12-2009, 12:13 PM
um, how did i hide, exactly?
Because you just put up with her. You don't leave someone who isn't doing their job in their position, it just slows everything down. You cut out the cancer. If she was this bad she should have been out of your workplace weeks ago.
jessicaduh
05-12-2009, 12:17 PM
i've stated previously....she wasn't hired for a position where i could - or would - just fire her. it's more of an internship/learning experience. i was very direct with her and checked in frequently about her performance, but i also provided her with every opportunity to grow and improve...which is the whole point of this job. it's not just a job where she fills a role, it's a part of her education. the problem is that she didn't take advantage of it...for that, i'm disappointed. i've looked at everything I personally did to see if the blame might have possibly been partly mine, but neither i nor my supervisor see that as having been the problem.
i did everything - short of firing her - that i think i could have. yes, i could have fired her. if she were a full-time staff member or something, i would have. but this is not a situation that can be judged from that set of guidelines.
Death Metal Moe
05-12-2009, 12:24 PM
There had to have been a way to get rid of her if she was THAT bad. Emphasize that her horrible performance is slowing you down because you have to dedicate an unnecessarily long amount of time telling her the same things over and over again. Bring it down to $$$ and you'll get someone's attention.
If you weren't willing to do that, I don't think she was as bad as you let on. Or if you felt doing that was too harsh, then that was a poor decision from a supervisor's standpoint.
jessicaduh
05-12-2009, 12:34 PM
i didn't want to get rid of her. i wanted her to give a shit. it wasn't about what she could provide to me, it was about what i could provide to her.
and...when you're in higher education, it's about the people, not the $.
Death Metal Moe
05-12-2009, 12:52 PM
i didn't want to get rid of her. i wanted her to give a shit. it wasn't about what she could provide to me, it was about what i could provide to her.
and...when you're in higher education, it's about the people, not the $.
Well then what's the problem? You took a hard case under your wing and tried to teach her. She didn't take to it, now she's gone. If you knew things like this could happen as part of the responsibility of teaching these people, sounds like it comes with the territory.
jessicaduh
05-12-2009, 12:55 PM
just forget it. i'm sooooo not interested in defending any of it.
Drunky McBetidont
05-12-2009, 01:01 PM
just forget it. i'm sooooo not interested in defending any of it.
you live in arkansas, so the farm hand didn't work out? great internship.:blink:
Death Metal Moe
05-12-2009, 01:05 PM
just forget it. i'm sooooo not interested in defending any of it.
What's to defend? I didn't know we were arguing. If you were just venting in this thread, then fine. But it seemed this girl was a BIG problem and you really shouldn't have put up with it.
Just my opinion. But either way she's out in a few days. My "advice" is in the future, don't put yourself through this again. Just advice, take or leave it.
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