R&F Sirius/XM Listening Thread for 06-23-09

[ToiletCrusher]

I've had people do both.


Often.

I hope it was because you won the game early and ended drinking prematurely.

[PD]

I should add that my friend was not "handed" this money. He earned it himself. He wasn't a trust fund kid.

His father was a doctor and did well enough to pay for his college. But after that, my friend made all his own money.

I got that by the way; I know a lot of people like that.
In addition there are actually a lot of poor immigrants who will scrimp elsewhere to spend money on their kids educations

[epo]

I was gonna bring up Oshkosh.

The hidden gem of drinking in all of this is Stevens Point. They seriously rival Madison.

[PD]

I was gonna bring up Oshkosh.

B'Gosh?

[ToiletCrusher]

B'Gosh?

watch your language, potty mouth.

[EliSnow]

So, what about your kids?

Will they know a life where doors open to them because of the paper they hold in their hand?

If so, is that because you experienced this yourself?

Or, let me ask you this, if you never attended an Ivy League school, would you feel the same way?

As I said, my kids will go to public school rather than a private school. If they get the chance to go to an Ivy League school and we can afford so they get a door opened for them, I hope they do. Because it is an advantage.

As for my experience, because it happened for me, and because I saw it happening around me, I know that the facts about this. But I can guarantee you that for every door that was opened for me, I got the job and kept it because of my abilty. I would have had doors open for me if I hadn't gone to an Ivy League school because of that ability. And my kids (hopefully) will be able to do the same thing.

But this is the way the system is, and as long as we're a capitalist society, it's not going to change. So, acknowledging that, I'm going to do what I can within my means to give my kids the best chance to get the opportunities that will help them live the life they want.

[PD]

So, what about your kids?

Will they know a life where doors open to them because of the paper they hold in their hand?

If so, is that because you experienced this yourself?

Or, let me ask you this, if you never attended an Ivy League school, would you feel the same way?

It's not exactly that way, but I'm sure it seems that way.

As I said, people do "pre screening".

If someone told you they were a Navy Seal, or graduated from West Point, would you have preconceptions?

I will (possibly) still the pot more to say that there are actual differences when attending some of the more prestigious schools. You can be an idiot there, or you can be a captain of industry after having graduated from State school (My good friend from HS is CEO of a major company after having graduated from Binghamton SUNY). There are however more opportunities at some places than at others. That is capitalism.

[EliSnow]

I got that by the way; I know a lot of people like that.
In addition there are actually a lot of poor immigrants who will scrimp elsewhere to spend money on their kids educations

I won't say he necessarily "scrimps" because he still has a very nice lifestyle.

But he's not Paris Hilton or some of these idiot rich kids on the Hills, etc.

[ToiletCrusher]

As I said, my kids will go to public school rather than a private school. If they get the chance to go to an Ivy League school and we can afford so they get a door opened for them, I hope they do. Because it is an advantage.

As for my experience, because it happened for me, and because I saw it happening around me, I know that the facts about this. But I can guarantee you that for every door that was opened for me, I got the job and kept it because of my abilty. I would have had doors open for me if I hadn't gone to an Ivy League school because of that ability. And my kids (hopefully) will be able to do the same thing.

But this is the way the system is, and as long as we're a capitalist society, it's not going to change. So, acknowledging that, I'm going to do what I can within my means to give my kids the best chance to get the opportunities that will help them live the life they want.

But, giving them the best chances to get opportunities doesn't rely solely on where an education comes from. Obviously, I wish your family all the successes in the world, but my point is that if they are prepared to make as much as they can from as little as possible, no opportunity to succeed will be missed.

It's not exactly that way, but I'm sure it seems that way.

As I said, people do "pre screening".

If someone told you they were a Navy Seal, or graduated from West Point, would you have preconceptions?

I will (possibly) still the pot more to say that there are actual differences when attending some of the more prestigious schools. You can be an idiot there, or you can be a captain of industry after having graduated from State school (My good friend from HS is CEO of a major company after having graduated from Binghamton SUNY). There are however more opportunities at some places than at others. That is capitalism.

This doesn't stir anything more than it already has been.

But, we can compare the outliers all day. An idiot from an ivy league school became president of the US and a high school dropout became the leader of one of the largest and most profitable software companies in history.

[EliSnow]

It's not exactly that way, but I'm sure it seems that way.

As I said, people do "pre screening".

If someone told you they were a Navy Seal, or graduated from West Point, would you have preconceptions?

I will (possibly) still the pot more to say that there are actual differences when attending some of the more prestigious schools. You can be an idiot there, or you can be a captain of industry after having graduated from State school (My good friend from HS is CEO of a major company after having graduated from Binghamton SUNY). There are however more opportunities at some places than at others. That is capitalism.

Exactly. And there are a whole lot of things that play into getting into a school or getting a job besides the diploma, test scores, etc., although they are all factors.

I got into Yale when another football player I know, whose brother played FB for Yale, didn't. He had better test scores than I, but I got in. I think he may have been a better football player. We both had the ability but I got in. I'm not exactly sure why I did, but I think it's because I came from a family with no college degrees and from a farm town that didn't send kids to Ivy League schools. That was my story and my background was rare at Yale. His was not.

After college, a classmate with better grades and pedigree than I applied to the same law school I did. I got in and he didn't. Why? My LSAT scores were higher than his, and maybe again because of my story.

I got hired at the DA's office in NY as a paralegal because of personal contacts.

I got an interview at my first job in law school because I waited tables at Texas Arizona in Hoboken, and the lawyers drank there. When they saw it on my resume, they called me up and set up the interview.

[RhinoinMN]

The hidden gem of drinking in all of this is Stevens Point. They seriously rival Madison.


i would say that SP beats them per capita.

[epo]

i would say that SP beats them per capita.

7 years of my life, down the drain.

[RhinoinMN]

Honorable mentions to UW LaCrosse and UM Mankato.

[EliSnow]

But, giving them the best chances to get opportunities doesn't rely solely on where an education comes from.

I never said it was the sole factor. Having an Ivy League diploma is a big help in getting those opportunties though.

Obviously, I wish your family all the successes in the world, but my point is that if they are prepared to make as much as they can from as little as possible, no opportunity to succeed will be missed.

In an ideal world, this would be true. But this is not an ideal world. You may miss some opportunities with such preparation. You could still be as successful as anyone else following this preparation, but it's not a guarantee. Nothing is.

The whole point of my position is that the degree increases the odds for someone to succeed. Which is why a lot of people in NYC and elsewhere do what they do.

[ToiletCrusher]

The whole point of my position is that the degree increases the odds for someone to succeed. Which is why a lot of people in NYC and elsewhere do what they do.

Specific to one's chosen field.

[EliSnow]

Specific to one's chosen field.

Well, yes, there are fields that schools other than Ivy's do just as well or better than the Ivy's. And in some regional areas, diplomas from some schools may be regarded as well an Ivy.

I was told by the football coach for Carleton College in MN that a Carleton degree was just as good as a Yale degree for getting a job in Minneapolis. Knowing Carleton and knowing the "landscape" in Minneapolis, he's probably right.

Again, having an Ivy League degree is no guarantee to succeed, and it certainly is not necessary to succeed.

But overall, it still has its advantages.

[PD]

It's like "Money doesn't buy happiness, but it sure helps"

[EliSnow]

It's like "Money doesn't buy happiness, but it sure helps"

Pretty much.

But isn't that the American dream? To do well and make money so your kids are better off and don't have the same obstacles that you did?

In all likelihood, they are going to have their own set of problems and obstacles, but that doesn't stop anyone from trying to live this dream?

[ToiletCrusher]

Well, yes, there are fields that schools other than Ivy's do just as well or better than the Ivy's. And in some regional areas, diplomas from some schools may be regarded as well an Ivy.

The south.


I was told by the football coach for Carleton College in MN that a Carleton degree was just as good as a Yale degree for getting a job in Minneapolis. Knowing Carleton and knowing the "landscape" in Minneapolis, he's probably right.

I don't know enough to compare that. But, I'll take your word.

Again, having an Ivy League degree is no guarantee to succeed, and it certainly is not necessary to succeed.

I never said it was a guarantee to succeed. I simply said that there is an inequality.

But overall, it still has its advantages.

Some. But, again only to select fields.

[EliSnow]

I never said it was a guarantee to succeed. I simply said that there is an inequality.

I'm not sure what that necessarily means to my points. I never said whether it was equal or not. It's part of life and why it may be important to some parents.

Some. But, again only to select fields.

Hence, the use of the word overall. It doesn't apply in every field or area. But as whole I think it does. And I think that position is supported by the stats on the average income of Ivy League grads over all compared to others.

[PD]

there is also a value to opportunity, and certain things give you more opportunity.

it also is not necessarily just means to an end. It is not just all about leading to a career.

[EliSnow]

there is also a value to opportunity, and certain things give you more opportunity.

it also is not necessarily just means to an end. It is not just all about leading to a career.

True. For a long time, parents wanted their daughters to go to the Ivy's (or the Seven Sisters, back in the '50's etc). so they meet the rich husband and be set for life. :wink:

Seriously, I agree with you.

[ToiletCrusher]

I'd love to sit here and chat with you, but then I would need to get another beer.

Cheers! It was fun!

[PD]

Maybe one of you mods can prune this into an offtopic thread; it is a pretty good discussion- the value of educational instistutions.

[ToiletCrusher]

Maybe one of you mods can prune this into an offtopic thread; it is a pretty good discussion- the value of educational instistutions.

Agreed.

[PD]

True. For a long time, parents wanted their daughters to go to the Ivy's (or the Seven Sisters, back in the '50's etc). so they meet the rich husband and be set for life. :wink:

Seriously, I agree with you.

at Cornell there is the school of Human Ecology, which is predominantly female.

everyone joked about the students there getting MRS degree.