Lost: The Final Season - Destiny Found

[underdog]

The hull was damaged and water was coming through breaches.

So it evenly rained through the sub?

[Furtherman]

So it evenly rained through the sub?

Yes. That's what happens. It rains evenly on the sub. See: every submarine movie ever made.

[Doctor Manhattan]

...that's not how a bomb on a sub would go down.

How many times have you been on a sub when a bomb went off?

But to be fair, the rain on the set made it look like they were on a set, not a sub.

[K.C.]

Next week's episode is Jacobpalooza....it's suppose to give every last bit of back story as to what the hell Jacob and MIB are and why they're doing what they're doing.

As for surviving, Sawyer is definitely a goner. In fact, if we apply the "doubling back on itself/mirror" theory of this show, Sawyer is now in Season 4 Jack stage (minus the beard). He planned a great escape, got a bunch of people killed, and now he has to live with it.

I wouldn't be surprised if MIB preys on Sawyer's despair and makes him his new #2 in these last couple episodes to try and get him to kill the other candidates.

I also think Kate's in a pretty bad situation. MIB can kill her since she's not a candidate, and she's a useful tool in influencing both Jack and Sawyer. Doesn't look good for her.

Hurley would be disappointing. I think Richard, Ben and Miles are all going to show up briefly and go out in a blaze of glory.

Really, I see this coming down to what pretty much existed before. Jacob and MIB alone on the island, as a check on each other, with people coming and going over time as part of the progress of the evolution of man.

Only difference is now it will be Jack and MIB (unless MIB gets replaced by another dark individual, i.e. Ben or Sawyer (if he doesn't recover from the guilt of what just happened), which would be pretty sweet).

[instrument]

sounds great kc, but what of the other timeline?
something has to come of it, they haven't been subjecting it to us all this time for no reason....i hope?

[K.C.]

sounds great kc, but what of the other timeline?
something has to come of it, they haven't been subjecting it to us all this time for no reason....i hope?

Hard to say. There's two common beliefs:

1) It's an incomplete universe -- one which appears decent enough on the surface, but each character is irrepairably broken. Desmond found the pathway to salvation in that world and was able to bridge the two, allowing those in the island universe to find salvation if they've can do the same (characters like Michael are stuck...they haven't been allowed to "move on.")

2) It's a false reality created as a result of the MIB plan coming to fruition. MIB will be successful and kill the candidates in the couple of episodes, but with Desmond having bridged the gap, he can bridge the gap with the other 815ers and their memories in the Sideways will lead them to undertake actions from the Sideways world that reboot the Island timeline, in essence creating a loop in which everything will play out all over again from the beginning (in the hopes that they will choose to do the right thing the next time around and stop MIB)...it's been hinted that there's an eternal recurrence aspect to this show before...

[K.C.]

So why is Jack the candidate? (Other than he's the protagonist of the show)

All of the candidates were given a test this season (Locke's was last season)...all of them failed but Jack:

Locke - not a leader...by his own admission he knew this as early as Season 1 (White Rabbit)...given a chance and couldn't get out of the way of his own self-pity.

Sawyer - chose to deny he was on the island for a reason and chose to conspire in secret by trying to lie and con his way off the island

Sayid - could not let go of his guilt and anger of his past and rejected redemption in exchange for an offer to kill his way to salvation.

Hurley - Couldnt muster the fortitude to make a decision and lead when given the chance...instead of standing his ground he lied about Jacob telling them to go see MIB.

Jin & Sun - Unwillingly to sacrifice each other for the greater good.

[K.C.]

http://subs.timeinc.net/backissuestore/Main.jhtml?category=2010&subcategory=EW&xid=ewlink1

$44 on shitty EW magazines...fuck that.

To be a collectible, somebody has to want it, and I don't care how many Lost characters they slap on special covers, nobody will ever want that publication.

[Doctor Manhattan]

http://subs.timeinc.net/backissuestore/Main.jhtml?category=2010&subcategory=EW&xid=ewlink1

$44 on shitty EW magazines...fuck that.

To be a collectible, somebody has to want it, and I don't care how many Lost characters they slap on special covers, nobody will ever want that publication.

Just buy the one with your favorite Lostie. I will get the one with Tony Stark or maybe Locke/MIB

[PD]

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.

[underdog]

ABC has announced that as part of the "Jimmy Kimmel Live: Aloha to Lost" special, the network will show three alternate endings: (http://www.comingsoon.net/news/tvnews.php?id=65823)

Following the final episode of "Lost," Jimmy Kimmel will host a one-hour post-show discussion and celebration of the beloved series, SUNDAY, MAY 23 at 12:05 a.m., ET on ABC, following local news.

Kimmel will be joined in studio by Naveen Andrews, Nestor Carbonell, Alan Dale, Jeremy Davies, Emilie de Ravin, Michael Emerson, Matthew Fox, Daniel Dae Kim, Terry O'Quinn and Harold Perrineau, with special appearances by Jorge Garcia, Josh Holloway and Evangeline Lilly and an exclusive look at THREE ALTERNATIVE FINAL SCENES from the minds of executive producers Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse.

Jimmy Kimmel Live has been deluged by more studio audience ticket requests for this special than any show in its seven-plus year history. Watch the grand finale to the grand finale on "Jimmy Kimmel Live: Aloha to Lost."

[mikeyboy]

My mind is blown by the fact that Jimmy Kimmel Live has been on 7+ years.

[Willmore]

So what's the final count for finale day programming? 6 hours?

[Furtherman]

So what's the final count for finale day programming? 6 hours?

5 1/2.

2 hour re-cap, 2 1/2 hr finale, 1 hour of Kimmel.

[Willmore]

5 1/2.

2 hour re-cap, 2 1/2 hr finale, 1 hour of Kimmel.

I'm sure they'll figure out how to make a 2 hour Lost-themed Sham-Wow commercial to get me to waste 2 more hours of my life after Kimmel.

[Furtherman]

In a way, the "Lost" island -- with its cliques, secret crushes and occasionally long-winded lessons about physics -- has always been a little like high school. So with the series coming to an end, what better way to honor our favorite characters than by selecting "Lost" superlatives? (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/artsandliving/entertainmentnews/lost-superlatives/)

[mikeyboy]

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[Doctor Manhattan]

Damn, only 3 left.

[mikeyboy]

Damn, only 3 left.

...and less than 2 weeks until it's all over.

[EliSnow]

So why is Jack the candidate? (Other than he's the protagonist of the show)

All of the candidates were given a test this season (Locke's was last season)...all of them failed but Jack:

Locke - not a leader...by his own admission he knew this as early as Season 1 (White Rabbit)...given a chance and couldn't get out of the way of his own self-pity.

Sawyer - chose to deny he was on the island for a reason and chose to conspire in secret by trying to lie and con his way off the island

Sayid - could not let go of his guilt and anger of his past and rejected redemption in exchange for an offer to kill his way to salvation.

Hurley - Couldnt muster the fortitude to make a decision and lead when given the chance...instead of standing his ground he lied about Jacob telling them to go see MIB.

Jin & Sun - Unwillingly to sacrifice each other for the greater good.

And Jack was in denial and trashed Jacob's lighthouse. I don't think there has been any real "tests." Yes I think that Jack will be the replacement, but not because the other's have failed some tests designed to weed people out.

[K.C.]

And Jack was in denial and trashed Jacob's lighthouse. I don't think there has been any real "tests." Yes I think that Jack will be the replacement, but not because the other's have failed some tests designed to weed people out.

Jack's overcome it, though. The others haven't. I don't know if there were specific Jacob authorized tests...I didn't mean that....I just meant that from a character arc standpoint, that's why Jack ended up the candidate as much as anyone. Because he's the only one that both gets it and accepts it.

[disneyspy]

i dont know why but i'm super geeked about tonights episode,decided to stay up and watch it live

[disneyspy]

hmmmm so the MIB's name is esau

[IamFogHat]

Aaaaalllll right.

[HBox]

Aaaaalllll right.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaallllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll lllllllllll right.

[booster11373]

That first segment hammers the nail in the coffin of any science based theories.

Its annoying I said twins as soon as I saw the pregnant chick

MIB's name will be the big reveal tonight

I'm thinking Seth but something biblical for sure def old testament

[hammersavage]

Shoulda named them Chuck and Buck

[IamFogHat]

Mother.

[disneyspy]

kinda looked like jacob could hurt his brother

[Dan 'Hampton]

That light thing showed up way too late in the series unless it turns up being one of those pockets of energy.

[disneyspy]

That light thing showed up way too late in the series unless it turns up being one of those pockets of energy.

the well of souls?

[IamFogHat]

Yeah but see now the science realm is crashing in on the nonsense which I think is awesome.

[HBox]

This explanation of the wheel is nonsense.

[razorboy]

Am I the only person who finds this episode painfully boring and obvious?

[disneyspy]

well now we know were adam and eve in the cave came from,MIB and mother(she has to die soon) will be laid to rest there by jacob

[Dan 'Hampton]

This explanation of the wheel is nonsense.

Isanely nonsense. Overall I like this episode but why is it the third to last. This would have been great a year ago.

[booster11373]

Am I the only person who finds this episode painfully boring and obvious?

Im with you on that

How many more cliches and predictable plot elements will they use before the end of the episode?

[K.C.]

Reading some instant reaction to the episode....people are so pissed about it....I'll save my thoughts for the end.

[HBox]

1. Cave of light
2. System of streams of water
3. ???
4. FREEDOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[IamFogHat]

1. Cave of light
2. System of streams of water
3. ???
4. FREEDOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Phase 1: Collect Underpants
Phase 2: ?
Phase 3: Profit

[IamFogHat]

How the fuck are they planning on bridging the gap between he has a crazy mom to he becomes a smoke monster?

[razorboy]

How the fuck are they planning on bridging the gap between he has a crazy mom to he becomes a smoke monster?

Drugs, man.

[disneyspy]

How the fuck are they planning on bridging the gap between he has a crazy mom to he becomes a smoke monster?

he's going to take the smoke from the burning village in a rage of revenge


or some such nonsense

[booster11373]

At some point the wheel and light meet to form the perfect union so.........

This just isnt the episode I was looking for....

[TooLowBrow]

well now we know were adam and eve in the cave came from,MIB and mother(she has to die soon) will be laid to rest there by jacob

no way, why would jacob make their bones embrace?

[HBox]

How the fuck are they planning on bridging the gap between he has a crazy mom to he becomes a smoke monster?

They have 10 minutes left to do that.

There's a bunch of stupid shit going on here but I'm not hating this yet. But now I'm starting to see where a lot of these open ends are going to be left, likely the mother and where she came from and where this all started. Which I'm fine with.

The major problem I'm having is that these stranded people from god knows when somehow figuring out what is going on with this island better than the DHARMA initiative.

[K.C.]

How the fuck are they planning on bridging the gap between he has a crazy mom to he becomes a smoke monster?

Apparently in the last 10 minutes.

[IamFogHat]

All's I'm saying is, there's 8 minutes left, and next week I don't want an all flashback show of characters I know nothing about, so I hope this shit gets answered right now.

[disneyspy]

no way, why would jacob make their bones embrace?

because he's a perv

[disneyspy]

shhhh,the shows back on

[IamFogHat]

Oh no, it's gonna be Jacob's fucking fault!

[razorboy]

Alright, I plan my Tuesday nights around watching a fucking television show, and that episode blew ape.

[TooLowBrow]

no way, why would jacob make their bones embrace?

fuckin hell

[IamFogHat]

Get the fuck out of the city! Adam and Eve are mother and son? Lost is so...I mean you it's the I uh, darkness, ok, mother and oh boy...

[disneyspy]

hey it was rushed but it tied some shit together

i give it a B+

[HBox]

That wasn't good.

[booster11373]

So the brothers name was never said...

Jacob is respocible for releasing the smoke monster...

And the point of all that was??????

[HBox]

So the brothers name was never said...

Jacob is respocible for releasing the smoke monster...

And the point of all that was??????

It explained a hell of a lot, what the island is all about, where Jacob and MIB came from, the Adam and Eve skeleton, etc.

It just did so in a boring way with sometimes dumb explanations.

[disneyspy]

jacobs brother's name had to have been esau like in the bible story

[K.C.]

I like the Smoke Monster origin, I like the Adam & Eve wrap up.

Everything else was very meh....a lot of filler it seemed like.

Alison Janney character kind of pointless (and not well acted), which was disappointing, because Darlton have been talking it up like her performance was Orson Welles in Citizen Kane for weeks.

Very average episode.

[booster11373]

It explained a hell of a lot, what the island is all about, where Jacob and MIB came from, the Adam and Eve skeleton, etc.

It just did so in a boring way with sometimes dumb explanations.

Did it? or just raise some more questions

Whats the light?

What was Howard Sterns boss doing on the island?

[HBox]

Did it? or just raise some more questions

Whats the light?

What was Howard Sterns boss doing on the island?

The light is the MacGuffin.

[K.C.]

Did it? or just raise some more questions

Whats the light?

What was Howard Sterns boss doing on the island?

It's the barrier between reality and hell...the cave is the gateway to hell/evil/malevolence that Jacob referenced in the Richard episode.

The "cork" if you will.

[booster11373]

The light is the MacGuffin.

It's the barrier between reality and hell...the cave is the gateway to hell/evil/malevolence that Jacob referenced in the Richard episode.

The "cork" if you will.

I guess but it just seems very unsatisfying and why not stae that as well explain the importance of the whole thing it would have more impact I feel

Or is it another one of the islands properties that causes people not to explain or explore commonalities in order to find solutions

[K.C.]

I guess but it just seems very unsatisfying and why not stae that as well explain the importance of the whole thing it would have more impact I feel

Or is it another one of the islands properties that causes people not to explain or explore commonalities in order to find solutions

Well, I think now that we have a Candidate (presumably), the more satisfying explanation and impact of the whole thing will be felt in the finale, as I would assume the Losties are going to come in contact with this thing before the end.

This was more of an establishing episode to set up the finale.

But, like I said, I found it kind of meh.

[johnniehardrock]

God released evil into the world.....Jacob created the smoke monster

Could they all be vampires? The wine was the blood the mom gives to Jacob so he becomes like her. The smoke monster is the mist of Nosferatu and the polar bear is a shape shifter

[K.C.]

I also think the cave is where the Swan Hatch was being built.

The well MIB was digging and building the wheel in is obviously the Orchid.

[TheGameHHH]

I liked what the episode did, in the sense that it tied up a lot of loose end for us going into the final 3 and a half hours. I know it did it in a boring way, but how else were they really gonna do it? If they wanted to make it good they would have literally had to spend an entire season further explaining the backstory of Jacob & MIB. It was just way more convienant to do it this way. I dug it, it dragged in a few areas but overall it got me excited for the last two epsiodes and I was happy.

[PD]

jacobs brother's name had to have been esau like in the bible story

not necessarily, as in the Bible story, Esau is born first, not Jacob.

[K.C.]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moirae

Mother = Clotho
Jacob = Lachesis
MIB = Atropos

[Furtherman]

Brothers! Did anyone see that coming?

[Doctor Manhattan]

This explanation of the wheel is nonsense.

So MIB was planning to use the light and water to construct a mechanism to allow him to leave the Island? a MECHANISM?!?!

I liked the episode but that is just weak writing. I am fine with them not explaining the literal reasons behind things,like where the mother came from and how she was able to make them immortal (she told MIB that he will not need to worry about death) and not be able to hurt each other (but somehow they seemed to still be able to) but if they are going to start explaining something don't do it like that. Reminded me of the whispers explanation from Michael, forced and weak.

Now, it was cool to see that MIB was the person behind the wheel that Ben and Locke used, and it's good to finally see who Adam and Eve are, but I somehow don't think that was planned from Season 1. I am sure they will say it was always the smoke monster's original body and the lady who stole him and his brother from their mother, but I have a little doubt.

So I guess we will not be finding out MIB's real name.

[underdog]

Im with you on that

How many more cliches and predictable plot elements will they use before the end of the episode?

That was my problem with the last episode. Fake Locke switched backpacks! OMG! No one could possibly see that coming!

[dereckfishboy]

Could the well be related to the well Locke warped in during season 5, the well that Desmond is stuck in now?

[MagillaGorillaz]

So the "Adam" skeleton is the man in black's remains. That means the smoke monster isn't really the man in black right? It just takes the form of him like what it did with Locke. Should we assume that the man in black teleported off the island and came back, like Locke coming back in Ajira plane?

[MagillaGorillaz]

And I think the temple was built on top of the stream of light. Wasn't it a dried up river bed where the wall was built?

[CurseoftheBambi]

So the "Adam" skeleton is the man in black's remains. That means the smoke monster isn't really the man in black right? It just takes the form of him like what it did with Locke. Should we assume that the man in black teleported off the island and came back, like Locke coming back in Ajira plane?

NO i believe its still him just him disembodied. its his Soul that's now the smoke monster now. his body is dead.

[mikeyboy]

It explained a hell of a lot, what the island is all about, where Jacob and MIB came from, the Adam and Eve skeleton, etc.

It just did so in a boring way with sometimes dumb explanations.

Exactly. This is kind of why I hate origin stories in comic book movies. If they said there was an online comic book you could read and find out exactly what was happening with Jacob and MIB if you wanted to, but otherwise you could just follow the Losties and kind of understand, that would have been good for me. Three episodes left and one was wasted on shit that probably could have been explained more quickly. None of it was surprising except for the Adam and Eve thing, and I that really isn't a major revelation.

[TooLowBrow]

So the "Adam" skeleton is the man in black's remains. That means the smoke monster isn't really the man in black right? It just takes the form of him like what it did with Locke. Should we assume that the man in black teleported off the island and came back, like Locke coming back in Ajira plane?

NO i believe its still him just him disembodied. its his Soul that's now the smoke monster now. his body is dead.

maybe its the (fake)mom

[instrument]

i was hoping for some mystery to this show, but from the looks of it they're going to explain it all.

kinda disappointing.
would be like if lynch explained what those bunnies were about.

[CurseoftheBambi]

not logical for it to be fake mom. fake mom didnt want to leave the island...esau always has wanted too. Also Since Jacob and Esau were first introduced jacob has never treated Esau like a parental figure...always a peer. There was never a deference to authority. Just equals.

and no mysteries oh yeah there will be...we have more questions in this episode....like who was the first guardian of the island and when did they discover the island was unique and needed to be. and why did "mom" lie.

[K.C.]

So the "Adam" skeleton is the man in black's remains. That means the smoke monster isn't really the man in black right? It just takes the form of him like what it did with Locke. Should we assume that the man in black teleported off the island and came back, like Locke coming back in Ajira plane?

NO i believe its still him just him disembodied. its his Soul that's now the smoke monster now. his body is dead.

Sort of.

As I said, the cave is malevolence, the light is the cork....by all accounts malevolence/hell/evil is a consuming construct so when MIB gets tossed in, the Smoke Monster essentially devours his soul.

So it's a symbiotic relationship. He's a Venom/Carnage type evil hybrid. It make me wonder if the same thing happened to Locke...did bringing Locke'a
body back fuse him to the soul-devouring monster...or even something like release the MIB and put Locke in his place.

Remember, Locke was extremely pissed with Desmond, and Desmond said he when asked by fake Locke that of course he knew who he was....he's John Locke.

I'm thinking they're may be more to that conversation than met the eye...that the Monster we are seeing is partly real John Locke, him having been consummed
by the malevolence of the Smoke Monster.

[Willmore]

If Man in Black couldn't get off the island, then how could Jacob get off and touch all the candidates?

Couldn't Alison Janney just tell Man in Black that he's special, he's going to be selected eventually and if he's patient, he'll be able to leave the island at will? Jacob would then just be the pussy that he is, accept it and die like any regular human being of old age. Man in Black would be the island's protector, and stay or leave the island whenever he wants, which is all he ever wanted.

Boom, problem solved, no need for 6 years of exposition.

[realmenhatelife]

My problem with the cave of light is actually the fault of all the people that complain about the ambiguity of Lost.

They obviously want to explain the island in only the most impressionistic terms, a haven or origin for whats good, a barrier for what's bad. However, people cant handle something that general, so they made it tangible and we get the cave of light. The result is something somehow too specific and not specific enough.

Is the smoke monster a portion of what the light keeps at bay, freed by the corruption of Jacob murdering his brother out of jelousy? Or was the mom the smoke monster the whole time, and is freed by MIBs death?

If the mom is the smoke monster it would explain how she was able to destroy the well and the village. It also would give her motivation for pitting her adopted sons against eachother, since MIB is so driven to leave the island and maybe thats what the smoke monster wants too, to spread maleavolance. This only works if whent he smoke monster posseses a body they retain some of their character- which would explain why the mom was greatful to be killed and released, and the MIB still wants to escape the island.

[K.C.]

If Man in Black couldn't get off the island, then how could Jacob get off and touch all the candidates?

Couldn't Alison Janney just tell Man in Black that he's special, he's going to be selected eventually and if he's patient, he'll be able to leave the island at will? Jacob would then just be the pussy that he is, accept it and die like any regular human being of old age. Man in Black would be the island's protector, and stay or leave the island whenever he wants, which is all he ever wanted.

Boom, problem solved, no need for 6 years of exposition.

"...to know the difference between right and wrong...it all becomes
meaningless if I have to tell them..." - Jacob

Plus, I didn't get the sense that Alison Janney was good or evil...she's like one of the Fates weaving different threads...and in that context, the MIB was always suppose to become the monster.

And that's why HE can't leave...it's never stated to Jacob that he can't leave.

[K.C.]

My problem with the cave of light is actually the fault of all the people that complain about the ambiguity of Lost.

They obviously want to explain the island in only the most impressionistic terms, a haven or origin for whats good, a barrier for what's bad. However, people cant handle something that general, so they made it tangible and we get the cave of light. The result is something somehow too specific and not specific enough.


100% agreed. You have the framework for pretty much all the answers, but people wan iron-clad indisputable answers and those are the people that are pissed.

[Willmore]

"...to know the difference between right and wrong...it all becomes
meaningless if I have to tell them..." - Jacob

Plus, I didn't get the sense that Alison Janney was good or evil...she's like one of the Fates weaving different threads...and in that context, the MIB was always suppose to become the monster.

And that's why HE can't leave...it's never stated to Jacob that he can't leave.

But the idea was that they were twins, thus they answer to the same rules and laws of the island up until the moment that Jacob becomes the protector and MIB - the smoke monster. If that is the case, then Jacob would not have been able to leave the island until he became a protector.

[K.C.]

But the idea was that they were twins, thus they answer to the same rules and laws of the island up until the moment that Jacob becomes the protector and MIB - the smoke monster. If that is the case, then Jacob would not have been able to leave the island until he became a protector.

I don't know that it is the idea, though (other than they're obviously twins).

From the very beginning, the Alison Janney character raised MIB much different than Jacob, and cultivated his curiousity and desire to question things. You could easily take that as her grooming him for the destiny of becoming the Smoke Monster, whereas she was grooming Jacob for the destiny of protector.

When she tells him he can never leave the island, it's because he HAS to become the Monster. And once he becomes the Monster, he can never leave because that evil can never be unleashed.

There are rules to how they are to interact with each other...but not necessarily one set of rules for both.

[realmenhatelife]

If you take Allison Janney as the Smoke Monster prior to her death is it possible that she took the form of the brother's birth mother in order to manipulate MIB into joining the others?

[Furtherman]

I liked what the episode did, in the sense that it tied up a lot of loose end for us going into the final 3 and a half hours. I know it did it in a boring way, but how else were they really gonna do it? If they wanted to make it good they would have literally had to spend an entire season further explaining the backstory of Jacob & MIB. It was just way more convienant to do it this way. I dug it, it dragged in a few areas but overall it got me excited for the last two epsiodes and I was happy.

Agreed. I liked the episode. I admit I'm a bit of a Lost geek, and it rarely let's me down, but I think it was an excellent backstory to the brothers.

100% agreed. You have the framework for pretty much all the answers, but people wan iron-clad indisputable answers and those are the people that are pissed.

Agreed as well.


There are things that I wish we knew about, like where Jacob's and MIB's fake mother came from, where did their original mother's people come from (what language were they speaking), what exactly is the "light"? Why could MIB see dead people, but not the cave which he searched for over 30 years?

These are questions that might not be answered.

I'm OK with that.

I was surprised that MIB's "people" were killed. I though we would find out that they were the people who built the statue. I doubt that Jacob and MIB built it together. There is a whole history behind who these people are, like the fake mother. Greek? Egyptian? The game that MIB found on the beach is Egyptian in origin, a predecessor to Backgammon. In fact, I saw that exact game in the exhibit of King Tut's Treasure last year (you can see it now in NYC on 44th & Broadway).

That's the history I would like to know, but will probably not be answered.

But that's not the crux of the show - the characters are, and I feel for them more than any of these questions that may or may not be answered. I feel they've been going in an excellent direction and look forward to the wrap up, even though I know I'll miss this show big time.

I loved that we found who the skeletons were, with the flashback, as I figured it would be two of the 815 survivors.

I was also surprised to see that Jacob and MIB were brothers, as obvious as it is now, it just wasn't brought up that it was a possibility. Twists like that are great.

[K.C.]

The two biggest problems I had with the episode is I thought the acting (specifically Alison Janney and the little kids) was weak, and the placement of the episode as third to last is a little rough.

I think this would have been a great episode to use as the premiere.

But from a mythology standpoint it works and makes sense. I like it more today than I did last night.

[realmenhatelife]

The two biggest problems I had with the episode is I thought the acting (specifically Alison Janney and the little kids) was weak, and the placement of the episode as third to last is a little rough.

I think this would have been a great episode to use as the premiere.

But from a mythology standpoint it works and makes sense. I like it more today than I did last night.

The acting was weak but I love the placement of the episode. I do like the break in traditional action considering how saturated we will be next week, and I love anything that pisses off Lost fans.

[CurseoftheBambi]

Here is your brief recap of "Across the Sea." For the more detailed recap of this episode, go to the next page! *From abc.com lost)

Flashback:
- Claudia washes up on the island, shipwrecked and very pregnant
- Mother helps her give birth to twin boys
- Mother kills Claudia and raises the boys as her own
- Mother tells Jacob and the Boy in Black the island is the only place in the world
- A 13-year-old Boy in Black finds a senet game and teaches a 13-year-old Jacob how to play it
- Hunting boar, Jacob and his brother discover other people living on the island
-Claudia appears to the Boy in Black and tells him she is his mother and the other people on the island are his people who shipwrecked there
- The Boy in Black leaves to go live with his people and find a way off the island
- 30 years later, Jacob discovers the Man in Black and his people are digging wells trying to find a way to leave
- Mother knocks the Man in Black unconscious and kills all the people in his village
- Mother performs a ceremony and Jacob becomes the protector of the island
- The Man in Black regains consciousness, sees what Mother did, and kills her
- Jacob throws the Man in Black into the heart of the island and creates the smoke monster
- Jacob leaves the bodies of his mother and his brother in the caves

So...given what MIB said about Jacob taking his body...smokey is still MIB as has been shown.

[CurseoftheBambi]

and Jacob didn't kill MIB out of jealousy (actually he didnt even kill him) he did what he did to him out of anger than he killed Mother not jealousy.

and i strongly dont believe claudia's post death appearance was her as smokie given the above reasons. As well Smokie has always appeared with some deceit involved. There was no deceit with MIB. she told him what Mother did. *(killed her and prevented him and jacob from knowing the truth about about the other people on the island and that there were other places with people than what mother told them that this is everything) and never told MIB to kill mother to set it free. Smokey has been wanting to get free from the island since it was introduced as MIB and has been shown as MIB's motivation as a bodied human. Which has never been Mother's motivation at all...its always her motivation to stay isolated and on the island.

[HBox]

I don't know where this talk of MiB being dead and some other entity being released is coming from. If the smoke monster wasn't really the MiB he would be able to kill Jacob whenever he cared to.

I still find this episode a disappointment. I don't know how they managed to make an episode about the origins of Jacob and MiB boring but they did.

[realmenhatelife]

and Jacob didn't kill MIB out of jealousy (actually he didnt even kill him) he did what he did to him out of anger than he killed Mother not jealousy.

and i strongly dont believe claudia's post death appearance was her as smokie given the above reasons. As well Smokie has always appeared with some deceit involved. There was no deceit with MIB. she told him what Mother did. *(killed her and prevented him and jacob from knowing the truth about about the other people on the island and that there were other places with people than what mother told them that this is everything) and never told MIB to kill mother to set it free. Smokey has been wanting to get free from the island since it was introduced as MIB and has been shown as MIB's motivation as a bodied human. Which has never been Mother's motivation at all...its always her motivation to stay isolated and on the island.

You're right, my idea becomes somewhat contradictory. The mother must have some sort of power to do what she did though, and I do think shes manipulating both sons. I feel like the ultimate resolution of the show will be the contemporary losties breaking the cycle that Jacob and MIB have been locked in.

[disneyspy]

God released evil into the world.....Jacob created the smoke monster

Could they all be vampires? The wine was the blood the mom gives to Jacob so he becomes like her. The smoke monster is the mist of Nosferatu and the polar bear is a shape shifter

johhhhnnnnie,watcha smokin?

[CurseoftheBambi]

she's defintely been manlipulating them since she told them 1)there was no other place than the island and 2) lied saying they were the only people in existence 3) of course saying she was their mother. The question is...WHY?

After seeing that Esau really isnt Evil as we thought he was. The question what were Mother's reasons for doing what she was doing other than to protect the source/heart of the island? At first I saw her as someone who was a needy psycho woman...i dont think its as simple as that since Esau has proven to not be simple as being evil.

And that the colors that are used to symbolize Jacob and Esau have nothing to do with good and evil just black means Esau and White means Jacob. Nothing to do with Good and Evil at all.

[PD]

If you don't watch Jimmy Kimmel...

Jacob and the Man in Black: LOST Game
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8JBYlNTf-Q

[CurseoftheBambi]

Key Points on the source/heart of the island:

when the Esau and Jacob are kids -

She leads them blindfolded through a bamboo field. Mother explains she is taking them to someplace that only she can show them. The Boy in Black asks if she knew about the men, and Mother says yes. She didn't tell the boys because the men are dangerous and she didn't want to frighten them. Jacob asks what makes the men dangerous, and Mother says the same thing that makes all men dangerous. They come, they fight, they destroy, they corrupt. And it always ends the same. The Boy in Black picks up on something and asks where they "come" from. Mother quickly says another part of the island. And she warns the boys to never go looking for them because the men will hurt them. Jacob asks why, and Mother says because they're people and that's what people do. The Boy in Black says they're people, so does that mean they can hurt each other? Mother stops, and we can see the pain in her face. She gently pulls their blindfolds off and says no, she's made it so they can never hurt each other.

The boys look past her and see something amazing. They ask what this place is, and Mother says it's the reason they're here. They are standing at a pristine part of the island, a stream shrouded in darkness from the trees surrounding it. The stream flows into a small opening underground and cascades over a waterfall into a crevice. And from inside the crevice rises a pure white light. The light creates a sense that something exceptional and special lies beneath the waterfall deep in the earth.

Mother holds the boys back from stepping into the water. Jacob seems a little confused, maybe even scared, but his brother is fascinated. Almost hypnotized. He asks what's down there, and Mother tells him, with quiet reverence, light. The warmest, brightest light they have ever seen or felt. And they must make sure no one ever finds it. The Boy in Black says it's beautiful, and Mother says yes, it is. That's why they want it. A little bit of the light is in every man, and they always want more. Jacob is afraid and asks if the men can take it. Mother says no, but they will try. And if they try, they could put it out. If the light goes out here, it goes out everywhere. So Mother has protected this place but she can't protect it forever. The Boy in Black asks then who will, and Mother says it will have to be one of them.

When Jacob is an Adult -
Mother returns to the caves and wakes Jacob telling him it's time. She leads him through the jungle and bamboo field to the stream. Jacob realizes something happened, and Mother says she had to say good-bye to his brother. They reach the area with the underground opening and waterfall, and Mother says Jacob is going to protect it now. Jacob asks what's down there, and Mother says life, death, rebirth. It's the source. The heart of the island. She asks Jacob to promise one thing -- no matter what, he won't ever go down there. He asks if he would die, and Mother says it would be worse than dying. Much worse.

[King Imp]

So, can we all agree on one thing now that I and another person here speculated on? That MIB really isn't "bad". Smokey may be, but deep down inside MIB just wanted to go home.

[Doctor Manhattan]

Damon Lindelof tweeted this:Wait. "Polarizing" is a BAD thing?

If this wasn't the 3rd to last episode I don't think there would be as much negative talk about it. I thought it was a good episode, I was epecting an "Ab Aeterno" for the MIB which we sort of got...

[CurseoftheBambi]

yeah i can agree that MIB is far from being simply evil. he's very very complex and i dont think he's evil any more than i think jacob is good or the ulitmate expression of good like i dont think MIB is the ulitmate expression of evil we've been thinking he was. now as far as jacob's words to Richard...those are now in question to me. unless they relate to how MIB is now that he's no longer human and has the smoke form. that some how the smoke form will make destruction happen then it would have jacob's words make sense still. Otherwidse they sound like Mother's a bit.


hopes this made sense and not rambling run on as i think it is...

[instrument]

So, can we all agree on one thing now that I and another person here speculated on? That MIB really isn't "bad". Smokey may be, but deep down inside MIB just wanted to go home.

Home? Um, sorry dude he is home. Born right there on the island.

Or by home do you mean death?
If thats the case then yes he is bad due to the only means he has of getting there.

I wonder if their mother couldnt be killed till she found a successor and recite that little encantation... gotta wonder how the candidate will be appointed.

[King Imp]

Home? Um, sorry dude he is home. Born right there on the island.

Or by home do you mean death?
If thats the case then yes he is bad due to the only means he has of getting there.

I wonder if their mother couldnt be killed till she found a successor and recite that little encantation... gotta wonder how the candidate will be appointed.

Home as in where his real mother and the rest of those shipwreck survivors came from.
He understood that he and Jacob were never meant to be there and even said this wasn't his home.

[underdog]

They need to make a montage of people on Lost being knocked out in one shot. The number has to be in the hundreds at this point.

[disneyspy]

Home as in where his real mother and the rest of those shipwreck survivors came from.
He understood that he and Jacob were never meant to be there and even said this wasn't his home.

i dont know if those ship wreck survivors were from the same place,she was already on the island and setttled nto the cave when they came ashore

[AF Mike]

If Man in Black couldn't get off the island, then how could Jacob get off and touch all the candidates?

Couldn't Alison Janney just tell Man in Black that he's special, he's going to be selected eventually and if he's patient, he'll be able to leave the island at will? Jacob would then just be the pussy that he is, accept it and die like any regular human being of old age. Man in Black would be the island's protector, and stay or leave the island whenever he wants, which is all he ever wanted.

Boom, problem solved, no need for 6 years of exposition.


He can get off the island, we've seen it. He was on the freighter as Christan and
told Michael that the island was done with him right before he blew up.
The freighter was outside the stupid dome of island mysticism.

[King Imp]

He can get off the island, we've seen it. He was on the freighter as Christan and
told Michael that the island was done with him right before he blew up.
The freighter was outside the stupid dome of island mysticism.

That's assuming that MIB is the one who appears to people. I personally believe that it's Jacob who is the one who changes into these other forms.

Didn't Ilana say that once MIB/Smokey takes a form, if he leaves that form he can't get it back? If so, then how would that explain looking like Christian, becoming Yemi, and going back to Christian?

[CurseoftheBambi]

i dont know if those ship wreck survivors were from the same place,she was already on the island and setttled nto the cave when they came ashore

She (claudia) said they were when she spoke to BIB (boy in black LOL)

That's assuming that MIB is the one who appears to people. I personally believe that it's Jacob who is the one who changes into these other forms. The show has stated its always been MIB who's taken those forms...he's confessed to it. Except for Michael and Richard's wife at the end of his episode everyone dead person so far has been smokey. Oh and to be really obvious not his real mom, Claudia also.

Didn't Ilana say that once MIB/Smokey takes a form, if he leaves that form he can't get it back? If so, then how would that explain looking like Christian, becoming Yemi, and going back to Christian? No she said he was stuck in John's form.

[Dell]

She (claudia) said they were when she spoke to BIB (boy in black LOL)

The show has stated its always been MIB who's taken those forms...he's confessed to it. Except for Michael and Richard's wife at the end of his episode everyone dead person so far has been smokey. Oh and to be really obvious not his real mom, Claudia also.

No she said he was stuck in John's form.

Michael, Richard's wife and Claudia were all ghosts...is it more than a coincidence that MIB and Hurley are the only ones that can see the ghosts?

[CurseoftheBambi]

they're both special...

[instrument]

Thats sounds great but walt wasnt dead.....soooooooooooooooooo.

And desmond saw the little kid as well....

[K.C.]

So, can we all agree on one thing now that I and another person here speculated on? That MIB really isn't "bad". Smokey may be, but deep down inside MIB just wanted to go home.

Originally, no...there's parallels in character structure to human MIB and Milton's Lucifer in Paradise Lost, but Milton's Lucifer is actually interpreted as very complex some what heroic and more tragically flawed than anything.

The Smokey symbiotic creation of MIB...yes, it's evil.

[Rawkus]

i'm really having a problem with this season and the way some plot points are being wrapped up. It's just all this "magik" thats going on as the explanation for things. I like it when they at least TRY to have some kind of scientific reasoning for things behind the show but there should at least be a balance between science being an answer as opposed to "oh abracadabra, there you go..magic". I find this a real cheap rip off to the viewers

[mikeyboy]

Lost Props Auction (http://www.profilesinhistory.com/lost-auction-preview/lost-auction-preview)

[K.C.]

i'm really having a problem with this season and the way some plot points are being wrapped up. It's just all this "magik" thats going on as the explanation for things. I like it when they at least TRY to have some kind of scientific reasoning for things behind the show but there should at least be a balance between science being an answer as opposed to "oh abracadabra, there you go..magic". I find this a real cheap rip off to the viewers


First off, there is a scientific explanation to the show that collaborates with the philosophical explanation.

Second, it's just as far fetched and "Magik"

That's what's so amazing...show people time travel, magical pockets of electromagnetic energy
that cause doomsday scenarios, alternate realities and so forth and they're engaged.

That stuff is as far-fetched and thoeretical as any philosphical or religious concept.

The problem is that people are just uncomfortable with philosophy, period.

But acting like one was a realistic explanation and the other is hocus pocus isn't close to true, because anyone who's ever broken down the
science concepts of this show at an academic level basically would basically tell you all of it is based off of magical theoretical substances that don't exist in this universe.

[CountryBob]

HaHa - I love that Adam And Eve was not Bernard and Rose. Everybody that predicted that can suck it!

[CurseoftheBambi]

http://www.hitfix.com/blogs/whats-alan-watching/posts/exclusive-interview-lost-producers-damon-lindelof-and-carlton-cuse-talk-across-the-sea

[disneyspy]

Lost Props Auction (http://www.profilesinhistory.com/lost-auction-preview/lost-auction-preview)

i so need to win this

http://www.profilesinhistory.com/components/com_mtree/img/listings/m/537.jpg

[Furtherman]

i'm really having a problem with this season and the way some plot points are being wrapped up. It's just all this "magik" thats going on as the explanation for things. I like it when they at least TRY to have some kind of scientific reasoning for things behind the show but there should at least be a balance between science being an answer as opposed to "oh abracadabra, there you go..magic". I find this a real cheap rip off to the viewers

What K.C. said. There has been your "magik" element since the first episode. Hanging on that as an problem really doesn't work if you've been following the show.

i so need to win this

http://www.profilesinhistory.com/components/com_mtree/img/listings/m/537.jpg

You can buy that at ABC.com store, if you really need one.

[Willmore]

they're both special...

http://www.patriciaebauer.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/20080731_simple-jack.jpg

[K.C.]

What K.C. said. There has been your "magik" element since the first episode. Hanging on that as an problem really doesn't work if you've been following the show.
.

And that's the thing...give them "magik" rooted in science and they love it. Give them stuff rooted in mythology and it's infantile and stupid.

I get if people say they don't have a preference for philosphy/mythology stories. Fair enough, everyone has their tastes.

But I think there's also some sort of hipster bias against mythology stories, as if the science story is more realistic.

Um...no...because it's not rooted in any provable or factually established
medium of science. It's all hypothetical fields which have quasi-mythological and religious connotations to them when you get into issue like separate realities and time-travel.

[Fallon]

Kimmel rules.

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[Fallon]

http://i40.tinypic.com/wrhp4y.jpg

[Rawkus]

And that's the thing...give them "magik" rooted in science and they love it. Give them stuff rooted in mythology and it's infantile and stupid.

I get if people say they don't have a preference for philosphy/mythology stories. Fair enough, everyone has their tastes.

But I think there's also some sort of hipster bias against mythology stories, as if the science story is more realistic.

Um...no...because it's not rooted in any provable or factually established
medium of science. It's all hypothetical fields which have quasi-mythological and religious connotations to them when you get into issue like separate realities and time-travel.

that really wasn'tthe point i was trying to make at all. I think it was pretty late when i made the last post but my real problem is with the last episode-across the sea. Some of the explanations we've waited for for so long i feel are just cheap now. I just thought the last episode was the worst one i've seen in a long time. Maybe it was the bad acting from "mother" but something about it really just rubbed me the wrong way. The one before it, i thought was amazing, but, if this is the explanation for jacob and the man in black then sorry, i'm a little disappointed.

This is NOT some kind of "hipster bias" against mythology. But am i not allowed to think the last episode wasn't written to the usual high standard that this show has kept?

[K.C.]

that really wasn'tthe point i was trying to make at all. I think it was pretty late when i made the last post but my real problem is with the last episode-across the sea. Some of the explanations we've waited for for so long i feel are just cheap now. I just thought the last episode was the worst one i've seen in a long time. Maybe it was the bad acting from "mother" but something about it really just rubbed me the wrong way. The one before it, i thought was amazing, but, if this is the explanation for jacob and the man in black then sorry, i'm a little disappointed.

This is NOT some kind of "hipster bias" against mythology. But am i not allowed to think the last episode wasn't written to the usual high standard that this show has kept?

There's a lot about that episode I thought was bad, acting being #1...I probably projected some of the other complaints I've read about this episode on to your argument.

Certainly you're entitled to be disappointed. I actually didn't think it was a great episode either. There's a lot of beneath the surface story that can be pieced together off the episode that ties much of the show up, but it wasn't presented particularly well.

My point was more in relation to people thinking that this episode has ruined Lost (which there are a lot of, the namesake of this board being one of them), and the general complaints about Season 6 that I've heard all year. I think both are largely just people who had particular visions and are lashing out because it didn't happen that way.

[fezident]

people who had particular visions and are lashing out because it didn't happen that way.

Those negative feelings of frustration are, if nothing else, LOGICAL.

Meaning... the show zigged when it should've zagged... and now people are reacting to it.
I remember... all those years ago... we were quite focused on the relationships between the characters themselves. (IE: this passenger unknowingly works for a company that was just bought by another passenger. These two passengers don't even know they're siblings. etc etc)
The show -seemingly- was about how every passenger had a past and they had certain talents and certain secrets. The plane crash was the catalyst for them all to work together... to learn from each other.... to heal... to face their fears... etc etc.

Over time, more and more supernatural elements were introduced. Now... we've got an underground wheel that causes the island to skip like a stone through time and dimensions.
For a while... it looked like we were dealing with scientists... fertility.... experiments.... and EMP-induced time travel. Over time... more and more supernatural elements were added and now we've got two mysterious immortal siblings who are, basically, playing a 2000 year long game of chess.


The frustration with the show (and it's creators) are hard earned. The plot lines and the characters have not ended up where ( or when!) we, the fans of the first season, had ever expected.
Some people might LOVE those unexpected turns.
Others... are annoyed by it. Not unlike hearing a chord progression that goes unresolved.

[K.C.]

The frustration with the show (and it's creators) are hard earned. The plot lines and the characters have not ended up where ( or when!) we, the fans of the first season, had ever expected.
Some people might LOVE those unexpected turns.
Others... are annoyed by it. Not unlike hearing a chord progression that goes unresolved.


Uh......what?

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The character arcs, progression, and coming full circle of those stories from the early seasons has been pretty substantial.

Especially in Season 6, which has done a fantastic job of calling back Season 1 and tying those up.

In fact, those character stories have BEEN Season 6...everything else has been window dressing. It's been about Jack's evolution, Locke's legacy, Sawyer's journey from loner to investing everything into something and losing it, Claire's long prophesized doom, Sayid's inability to take responsibility and let go...it's been mostly tied back into Season 1.

And Season 1 more than anything was about fate/destiny/why are we here/what's the purpose type plot themes. The science turn came later. This is actually a more back to basics season.

[paulisded]

The backlash I'm seeing here and on other sites and boards is to be expected. The build-up, hype, and expectations were so huge that there is nothing they can do without a good percentage of the audience feeling disappointed. Personally, I'm not a big fan of the religion aspects of the show, but I've enjoyed the season, and unless there's some cheesy everybody lives happily ever after ending I'm not going to feel cheated.

[K.C.]

The backlash I'm seeing here and on other sites and boards is to be expected. The build-up, hype, and expectations were so huge that there is nothing they can do without a good percentage of the audience feeling disappointed. Personally, I'm not a big fan of the religion aspects of the show, but I've enjoyed the season, and unless there's some cheesy everybody lives happily ever after ending I'm not going to feel cheated.

Any Sci-Fi type show will lose parts of its audience when it starts to deal out heavy doses of "show mythology."

It's why Sci-Fi is a niche genre (especially in terms of TV)...because the premise can't really support a huge audience.

Lost is getting it pretty badly, though, because it built such a huge audience based on the strength of their character arcs. There's as many people, if not more, who still care about stuff like who Kate ends up with than they do any of the science or religion shit from the past two seasons.

And then there's people who lock in to an idea, and inevitably will think anything that doesn't line up with it is weak.


On a final note, I'd never tell anyone they're wrong for not liking it. I get that. I just take exception to people acting like the show failed them based on weak or sloppy writing. Because most of it totally fits as far as writing fluency as far as I can tell.

[fezident]

I hear ya.
But... I chose my words carefully.

My sense of things, when the show began, was that the show was reality based... and that there was some "strange" things going on. Which is why I purposely said "more and more supernatural elements were introduced". Meaning.... those elements WERE there but, certainly not the focus.

I stand by my opinion that, somebody who HATED fantasy-based tv shows, could've been a huge fan of the first season. Back then... we seemed to be talking about drug addiction, marriage & fidelity, love, murder, grifters, fugitives, being a single parent, and just basic survival.

YOU ARE RIGHT though. There is no doubt that the show always had some seriously weird shit going on. Hell... the series BEGINS with a paralyzed man who is suddenly and inexplicably able to walk & run. Having said that... there was a while there where it SEEMED like the writers were (attempting to) work in plotlines that explained the strange phenomenon with some kinda earthly explanation.

The hatch, the numbers, doctors feverishly working to deal with fertility issues, the purple skies, the (seemingly) random encounters and intertwining backstory of all the players, etc etc etc were SEEMINGLY going to be explained by more than these-events-are-the-whims of-an-immortal-guardian-who "has a thing for numbers".


In many ways I'm agree with your views on the show.
But I'm also saying that this is a glass is half full situation. The fantastical aspects of the show was always present.... it's just that (IMO) it wasn't always in the forefront.
Those first months seemed dedicated to the survivors trying to learn from their mistakes on the main land... and create their own functioning society. Now, we're seeing a very different show.

Two halves of a whole? Yes.
It wasn't an even split the whole time though. Not to all of us, anyway.

[instrument]

i think it was kinda neat that jacob and his brother were just normal folks bestowed some sort of powers...with what seems to be little to no explanation.

hell, smokie killing his mom is very similar to ben killing jacob. And Jacobs blind faith towards his mother is very similar to locke. Unless we missed out on some greater explanation jacob knows very little of the island and the light.

[K.C.]

I hear ya.
But... I chose my words carefully.

My sense of things, when the show began, was that the show was reality based... and that there was some "strange" things going on. Which is why I purposely said "more and more supernatural elements were introduced". Meaning.... those elements WERE there but, certainly not the focus.

I stand by my opinion that, somebody who HATED fantasy-based tv shows, could've been a huge fan of the first season. Back then... we seemed to be talking about drug addiction, marriage & fidelity, love, murder, grifters, fugitives, being a single parent, and just basic survival.

YOU ARE RIGHT though. There is no doubt that the show always had some seriously weird shit going on. Hell... the series BEGINS with a paralyzed man who is suddenly and inexplicably able to walk & run. Having said that... there was a while there where it SEEMED like the writers were (attempting to) work in plotlines that explained the strange phenomenon with some kinda earthly explanation.

The hatch, the numbers, doctors feverishly working to deal with fertility issues, the purple skies, the (seemingly) random encounters and intertwining backstory of all the players, etc etc etc were SEEMINGLY going to be explained by more than these-events-are-the-whims of-an-immortal-guardian-who "has a thing for numbers".


In many ways I'm agree with your views on the show.
But I'm also saying that this is a glass is half full situation. The fantastical aspects of the show was always present.... it's just that (IMO) it wasn't always in the forefront.
Those first months seemed dedicated to the survivors trying to learn from their mistakes on the main land... and create their own functioning society. Now, we're seeing a very different show.

Two halves of a whole? Yes.
It was an even split the whole time though. Not to all of us, anyway.

You're definitely right. This season has two of the most "show mythology"/fantastical heavy episodes of the entire series (Richard's, and last week's).

But I also think people are overvaluing the Jacob story arc when they say that everything is now explained by two demigods playing cosmic backgammon.

There's a philosophical explanation and a scientific one happening at the same time. One hasn't negated the other.

Oceanic 815 came to the island because these people were chose for a purpose (philosophical). Oceanic 815 also literally crashed because Desmond didn't push the hatch button and the electromagnetic overload ripped it out of the sky (scientific). One hasn't over ridden the other.

Both are true. The show is littered with dualities like that.

And I think that's going to be a lot what people see in the show when they look back after they give it some distance. Two competing explanations that are both right. A scientific and a philosophical. An earthly and a supernatural.

[paulisded]

You're definitely right. This season has two of the most "show mythology"/fantastical heavy episodes of the entire series (Richard's, and last week's).

But I also think people are overvaluing the Jacob story arc when they say that everything is now explained by two demigods playing cosmic backgammon.

There's a philosophical explanation and a scientific one happening at the same time. One hasn't negated the other.

Oceanic 815 came to the island because these people were chose for a purpose (philosophical). Oceanic 815 also literally crashed because Desmond didn't push the hatch button and the electromagnetic overload ripped it out of the sky (scientific). One hasn't over ridden the other.

Both are true. The show is littered with dualities like that.

And I think that's going to be a lot what people see in the show when they look back after they give it some distance. Two competing explanations that are both right. A scientific and a philosophical. An earthly and a supernatural.

To me, the complaints have been similar to the arc of a critically-acclaimed, somewhat innovative band. Their first two or three albums see absolutely no criticism. They're "fresh", they cover new ground, and everything they do is a surprise. Then comes the hit album. It may not be quite as good as the earlier material, but they get a pass because it's still better than the majority of stuff on the pop charts. It's that next album, though, where every little element of the release is over-analysed. In retrospect, it may be every bit as good as the debut, but the expectations for it being the next "Sgt. Pepper" cause it to be considered a disappointment.

[CurseoftheBambi]

there's a poster over on the ABC lost board claiming to be someone who works behind the scenes and says everyone's gonna be disappointed and gives some half ass explanation about why there will be no answers. and some people are lapping it up like its gospel and not some person behind a keyboard saying shit. People are stoopid...then again when you're living in a world where people want more birth certificate proof than there is given already...i can see why people believe him....stoopid people.:wallbash:

* before anyone says anything I do know how to spell Stupid...i'm using the slang of it*

harvard53190

5 hours ago

WARNING: ***SPOILER ALERT*** ***SPOILER ALERT*** I worked on the set of Lost for the last two seasons, and I can tell you without a doubt that the final show is very disappointing. The writers of Lost do not answer ANY of the questions that people have been asking. And it's because they don't have the answers. A little known fact is that the original idea of Lost came from a writer named Anthony Spinner. ABC thought Spinner wanted too much money so they turned him down, copied his idea, and had Lindelof and Cuse write the show. There was a huge lawsuit in which ABC settled out of court for $6.5 million. But that's beside the point. Lost became a huge success at the complete surprise of the writers, and they were not prepared for it. They were told to keep the viewers guessing, but they ran out of ideas and started relying on viewer's theories to steer the direction of the show. Whenever a popular theory was accepted, the writers would write a show to take it in the opposite direction. But as ironic as it may sound, by prolonging the life of Lost for so long, with no clear direction or purpose, they themselves got 'lost'. They created questions that can never be answered, because there are no answers. In the end the writers tried frantically to tie it all together, to make some sense of it all, but it was just impossible. The final show is a huge disappointment.

[Furtherman]

On a final note, I'd never tell anyone they're wrong for not liking it. I get that. I just take exception to people acting like the show failed them based on weak or sloppy writing. Because most of it totally fits as far as writing fluency as far as I can tell.

Well said. I also feel that the episode was perfect for the overall scope of the show.

I've said this before, but if anyone was frustrated by "Across The Sea", I think reading Doc Jensen's analysis over at EW.com will really help put things in perspective. (and re-read K.C.'s posts too... they're excellent)

Lost recap: A Boy's Best Friend Is His Mother (http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20313460_20368574,00.html)

[King Imp]

Those negative feelings of frustration are, if nothing else, LOGICAL.

Meaning... the show zigged when it should've zagged... and now people are reacting to it.
I remember... all those years ago... we were quite focused on the relationships between the characters themselves. (IE: this passenger unknowingly works for a company that was just bought by another passenger. These two passengers don't even know they're siblings. etc etc)
The show -seemingly- was about how every passenger had a past and they had certain talents and certain secrets. The plane crash was the catalyst for them all to work together... to learn from each other.... to heal... to face their fears... etc etc.

Over time, more and more supernatural elements were introduced. Now... we've got an underground wheel that causes the island to skip like a stone through time and dimensions.
For a while... it looked like we were dealing with scientists... fertility.... experiments.... and EMP-induced time travel. Over time... more and more supernatural elements were added and now we've got two mysterious immortal siblings who are, basically, playing a 2000 year long game of chess.


The frustration with the show (and it's creators) are hard earned. The plot lines and the characters have not ended up where ( or when!) we, the fans of the first season, had ever expected.
Some people might LOVE those unexpected turns.
Others... are annoyed by it. Not unlike hearing a chord progression that goes unresolved.

This is pretty much my feeling as well. Don't get me wrong, I still like the show and I do like this season (albeit I'm confused beyond belief), but it does feel like everything that happened before has no bearing on what's going on now. All that stuff you mentioned is basically thrown out the window and is all of a sudden replaced by a millennia-long struggle between good and evil. It's like why even bother with all that stuff leading up to this. Looking back on it, who cares about Ben and the whole Dharma stuff as they were nothing more than grain of sand in the overall grand design.

And of course there is still the thing about why exactly these people were chosen which I'm sorry to say with such little time left I have no faith that it will ever be explained. If some people are fine with that, then more power to you, but just know that you will be in the minority there. The vast majority want answers, especially the big ones and if this ends up like another fucking Sopranos where we are supposed to just decide for ourselves what happened, then there will be major backlash.

[Willmore]

Spoiler!


Man in Black has a name, it's:

Esau. Which brings us back to the biblical. Esau was the twin brother of Jacob ... shocker. God renamed Jacob Israel - the patriarch and founder of the Israelites. They were the sons of Isaac and Rebekah.

This is all based on this: http://spoilerslost.blogspot.com/2010/05/did-abchulu-reveal-mibs-name.html#axzz0nvSgSM7T

Any thoughts.

[NewYorkDragons80]

Spoiler!


Man in Black has a name, it's:

Esau. Which brings us back to the biblical. Esau was the twin brother of Jacob ... shocker. God renamed Jacob Israel - the patriarch and founder of the Israelites. They were the sons of Isaac and Rebekah.

This is all based on this: http://spoilerslost.blogspot.com/2010/05/did-abchulu-reveal-mibs-name.html#axzz0nvSgSM7T

Any thoughts.

Not exactly Earth-shattering.

[CurseoftheBambi]

ive been calling him that for months...but its not official lost continuity yet.

[underdog]

Well said. I also feel that the episode was perfect for the overall scope of the show.

I've said this before, but if anyone was frustrated by "Across The Sea", I think reading Doc Jensen's analysis over at EW.com will really help put things in perspective. (and re-read K.C.'s posts too... they're excellent)

Lost recap: A Boy's Best Friend Is His Mother (http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20313460_20368574,00.html)

I love the EW recaps.

[K.C.]

To me, the complaints have been similar to the arc of a critically-acclaimed, somewhat innovative band. Their first two or three albums see absolutely no criticism. They're "fresh", they cover new ground, and everything they do is a surprise. Then comes the hit album. It may not be quite as good as the earlier material, but they get a pass because it's still better than the majority of stuff on the pop charts. It's that next album, though, where every little element of the release is over-analysed. In retrospect, it may be every bit as good as the debut, but the expectations for it being the next "Sgt. Pepper" cause it to be considered a disappointment.

I can definitely see that.

[Tall_James]

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[disneyspy]

Spoiler!


Man in Black has a name, it's:

Esau. Which brings us back to the biblical. Esau was the twin brother of Jacob ... shocker. God renamed Jacob Israel - the patriarch and founder of the Israelites. They were the sons of Isaac and Rebekah.

This is all based on this: http://spoilerslost.blogspot.com/2010/05/did-abchulu-reveal-mibs-name.html#axzz0nvSgSM7T

Any thoughts.

i said that after the first few minutes of the show tuesday night

now i'll add my two cents-it wasnt that bad an episode it just didnt have the main characters in it that weve spent 6 years following so it sucked compared to the other episodes because it wasnt what were used to

[celery]

http://topcultured.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/anti-locke-brakes.jpg

[disneyspy]

http://topcultured.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/anti-locke-brakes.jpg

hahahaahahaaha thats so fuckin stupid its funny

[PD]

dunno if this was mentioned:
'Lost' gets a letter from George Lucas (http://blog.zap2it.com/frominsidethebox/2010/05/lost-gets-a-letter-from-george-lucas.html)

The Force is with the producers of "Lost." (http://blog.zap2it.com/frominsidethebox/lost/)

At Thursday's (May 13) "Lost Live: The Final Celebration," ABC Studios executive Barry Jossen read a letter from George Lucas to executive producers Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse. No, he wasn't demanding royalties for all the "Star Wars" references that have littered "Lost" over the past six seasons. He was merely congratulating the show on its run and offering some words of support.

Here's the text of the letter:

Congratulations on pulling off an amazing show. Don't tell anyone ... but when 'Star Wars' first came out, I didn't know where it was going either. The trick is to pretend you've planned the whole thing out in advance. Throw in some father issues and references to other stories -- let's call them homages -- and you've got a series.

In six seasons, you've managed to span both time and space, and I don't think I'm alone in saying that I never saw what was around the corner. Now that it's all coming to an end, it's impressive to see how much was planned out in advance and how neatly you've wrapped up everything. You've created something really special. I'm sad that the series is ending, but I look forward to seeing what you two are going to do next.

Afterward Lindelof said, "I just want to apologize to Mr. George Lucas for everything I said about the prequels ..." -- drawing one of many big laughs from the hugely appreciative crowd at UCLA's Royce Hall.

also in that blog:
Other notes from "Lost Live":

- Malcolm David Kelley, who played Walt in the show's first couple seasons, admits that his teenage growth spurt knocked him out of a regular role: "It messed me up a little bit. I wish it could have waited a couple years." Kelley, who turned 18 last week, is a good eight to 10 inches taller than he was when the series began.

- A crowd of UCLA students gathered across the street from the red carpet to wave at and cheer for the actors as they arrived. We heard one girl yell "Daniel, you're my constant!" at Jeremy Davies, and as he made his way up the carpet, Jorge Garcia heard chants of "Jorge, Jorge!"

[instrument]

- Malcolm David Kelley, who played Walt in the show's first couple seasons, admits that his teenage growth spurt knocked him out of a regular role: "It messed me up a little bit. I wish it could have waited a couple years." Kelley, who turned 18 last week, is a good eight to 10 inches taller than he was when the series began

always wondered what his angle was gonna be, and the whole bird thing... and he seems to be the only person on the island that showed up as a "ghost" while still alive?

[barjockey]

I'm halfway through season 5 and the acting gets worse and worse especially Hugo and Kate. Ben too

[Kevin]

http://topcultured.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/anti-locke-brakes.jpg

Thats made me really laff.

So fucking funny.

[K.C.]

always wondered what his angle was gonna be, and the whole bird thing... and he seems to be the only person on the island that showed up as a "ghost" while still alive?

They said on one of the DVDs that Walt was suppose to be psychic...that's why he was "Special."

It makes a lot of sense actually if you go back and watch the Walt moments:
-He's studying birds and a bird flies into Brian Porter's glass window.
-He's drawn to the polar bear comic and later gets attacked
by a polar bear.
-He tells Locke not to open the hatch door, which is key in the chain of events that lead to where we are, and is Locke's proverbial down the rabbit hole moment in terms of being taken by the island to the point where he becomes MIBs pawn (and leads to his death).
-Last season, he tells Locke that he had a
vision of him on the island in a suit and people wanted to hurt him. This was the aftermath of
the Ajira landing.

Also, in the Season 4 Michael episode,
we learned that Walt kept having dreams that woke him up screaming at night...presumably more island visions.

The one mystery about him is how Taller Ghost Walt existed
when Walt isn't dead.

That's about it.

[Kevin]

This

thread

has

too

many

words..

ADD

Can't

take

it

self

destructing..

[Furtherman]

I'm halfway through season 5 and the acting gets worse and worse especially Hugo and Kate. Ben too

I don't get this criticism, as it has been mentioned before in this thread. I'm not sure what the standard of acting is but all the players in this show have done an excellent job. The only time it felt a little forced was the child actors who played Jacob and MIB, but they're kids and is expected.

I don't see how anyone could say that Ben's acting is bad. He won an Emmy for his work, and well deserved too.

[CountryBob]

I think that we need to quit criticizing this last season - lets enjoy the series as a whole as one of the very best in television history. BTW... I love this season as all of them - just sad its almost over and I hope something comes along to get the viewer involved as much as this show has. I have never researched mythology and visited message boards on behalf of a TV show before - i like this concept and hope that it wont end with LOST.

[K.C.]

I think that we need to quit criticizing this last season - lets enjoy the series as a whole as one of the very best in television history. BTW... I love this season as all of them - just sad its almost over and I hope something comes along to get the viewer involved as much as this show has. I have never researched mythology and visited message boards on behalf of a TV show before - i like this concept and hope that it wont end with LOST.

LOST probably won't end.

ABC/Disney owns the right, and the franchise is worth a ton. Definitely will probably see future LOST shows, video games, books, etc, much in the vain of Star Wars and Star Trek.

Whether it meets the quality Damon and Carlton have kept it to....another story.

That's also part of the reason I expect it to be somewhat of a circular, open-ended ending that kind of leaves the show mythology (Jacob/MIB) where it began (although I expect the characters will get closure)...to protect ABC's future to capitalize on the show.

[Furtherman]

Everyone who has died on Lost.

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[IamFogHat]

Here we go friends!

[IamFogHat]

So Kate's good as new I guess.

[IamFogHat]

Fuck. I hate (not in a bad way) when I forget what characters aren't privy to some things and it's a surprise to them.

[TooCute]

someone's gonna die........!!!!!!!!

[IamFogHat]

Holy shit!

[HBox]

So, uh, why would SmokeLocke promise Ben the island, and then very soon after say he's going to destroy the island?

[TooCute]

because this show is dumb and I hate it and I wish it was over already

[hammersavage]

wow, does this show eat a bag of dick right now

[booster11373]

I love the Desmond sideways stuff it takes the bad taste of the whole magic portal stuff out of my mouth

[hammersavage]

Im love the Desmond sideways stuff it takes the bad taste of the whole magic portal stuff out of my mouth

it should be an hour of that. its the only thing thats well written or interesting at this point.

[SHANEFROMGA]

the guy claire axed in the chest is on the kfc double down commercial.

[Dell]

the guy claire axed in the chest is on the kfc double down commercial.

HAHAHA...don't know if it is really him, but it looks like him...

[TooLowBrow]

this has nothing to do with this season but...



ok, hurley got the numbers, remember them?, which signify the candidates and was the code on the computer and was the wining lottery #, from dave who i guess was a ghost

hurley was the only person to have preknowledge of the #'s
and he was told by a supernatural being

why?

what did this lead to? why did they pick him and how did the #'s ever effect anything?

[HBox]

this has nothing to do with this season but...



ok, hurley got the numbers, remember them?, which signify the candidates and was the code on the computer and was the wining lottery #, from dave who i guess was a ghost

hurley was the only person to have preknowledge of the #'s
and he was told by a supernatural being

why?

what did this lead to? why did they pick him and how did the #'s ever effect anything?

1. Numbers
2. Candidates
3. ????
4. FATE

[Furtherman]

Excellent set up for next week. Glad to see Zie go, surprised to see Widmore go, wish there was a final scene with Richard and Fake Locke, but that shows how much MIB doesn't care about anyone. Awesome showing of Anna lucia. I said they were all gonna meet up at Locke's wedding, but it's gonna be Jack's kid's concert. Jack's wife will be there... gotta be Juliet. Loved it.

[underdog]

Really enjoyed that episode. Felt like they tied up some stuff and prepared the finale very well. I'm pumped for the last episode.

[instrument]

Loved how hugo knew anna lucia, and i enjoyed this whole ep. I wonder if richard is dead though.

And i wonder if jack can be killed now? If ben could so easily kill jacob wouldnt the same hold true for jack? Or was it all just obi wan like sacrafice to get jack in position.

Anywho, sunday!

[K.C.]

Loved how hugo knew anna lucia, and i enjoyed this whole ep. I wonder if richard is dead though.

And i wonder if jack can be killed now? If ben could so easily kill jacob wouldnt the same hold true for jack? Or was it all just obi wan like sacrafice to get jack in position.

Anywho, sunday!

I think the point they were trying to convey is that Jacob foresaw his death when MIB first figured out that he could influence people to kill Jacob, just like his Mother foresaw her death when the MIB left and joined the human settlers.

And in that respect, Jack is what he has left at this point.


The biggest question, I guess, from this episode, is that if the Sideways is the failsafe in which Desmond can save everything, is it already an indication that Jack is going to fail?

The only thing I didn't like about the episode is how quickly Ben turned heel again, and really for no apparent reason (although I'll reserve judgment on that after finale...maybe there is something behind it). But it really seems to take the luster off of his redemption episode.

As for some of the missing characters:

Widmore - Dead
Zoe - Dead
Frank - I'm going to guess dead
Richard - I'm going to guess alive

All in all, I like the set up for the final push.

Good episode.

[Adolf]

great episode

[Pestz4Evah]

Is the concert they are going to Jack's son's concert or the Daniel Widmore/Driveshaft concert? Or are they the same thing?

[CountryBob]

this has nothing to do with this season but...



ok, hurley got the numbers, remember them?, which signify the candidates and was the code on the computer and was the wining lottery #, from dave who i guess was a ghost

hurley was the only person to have preknowledge of the #'s
and he was told by a supernatural being

why?

what did this lead to? why did they pick him and how did the #'s ever effect anything?

I think that by him winning the lottery it made his life miserable - remember he considered himself unlucky by winning. Jacob mentioned that all of the candidates were missing something and searching in their real life and that's why he chose them.

[Tommy Marbles]

I don't understand why Jacob would wait hundreds of years after the creation of "the Monster" to start picking these candidates out. Was there some kind of catalyst at one point or another that made him start going through his mystical lighthouse phone book?

[Furtherman]

The lighthouse had many more names than the 815 survivors. I believe that Jacob has brought others here over the centuries, but this is the first group that has succeeded this far.

I also liked Ben's heel turn, because his ultimate revenge against Widmore was still brewing in him.

So psyched for Sunday.

[Furtherman]

Is the concert they are going to Jack's son's concert or the Daniel Widmore/Driveshaft concert? Or are they the same thing?

I didn't think they would be the same thing, but it would be great if it was!

[Tommy Marbles]

Didn't it feel a tad forced when Jacob was explaining to Hurley, Sawyer, Jack and Kate that he selected them because they were all "lost" in one way or another in their former lives. For me it came across as more exposition than necessary. Didn't we know that all along, and even got friends to begin watching the show with very similar explanations of the plot?

And why wouldn't he select a scientist who could build a smoke monster gun

[Tommy Marbles]

Ben: why would I help you smoke monster
Locke: because all of this can be yours
Ben: all of what
Locke: all of this island we're going to blow up
Ben: ...sounds good. you drive a hard bargain, sir, but I like the cut of your jib

[underdog]

The only thing I didn't like about the episode is how quickly Ben turned heel again, and really for no apparent reason (although I'll reserve judgment on that after finale...maybe there is something behind it). But it really seems to take the luster off of his redemption episode.

My feeling is Ben is going to redeem himself in the final episode. All this getting close to smokey is for a reason. It's why he doesn't say anything after he's promised the island and then smokey says he's going to destroy the island. He's been able to get too close to smokey, due to smokey's blinding desire to leave the island. I feel like Ben and his relationship with smokey is going to play a huge part in the final episode.

[mikeyboy]

Is the concert they are going to Jack's son's concert or the Daniel Widmore/Driveshaft concert? Or are they the same thing?

I think the same thing. Remember Widmore told Desmond that the his son (Faraday) was combining rock and classical music for the event.

[instrument]

The driveshaft concert is mostlikely over...seeing enough time has passed for locke to leave the hospital after spinal sugery.

[Furtherman]

I think the same thing. Remember Widmore told Desmond that the his son (Faraday) was combining rock and classical music for the event.

I forgot that... cool.

Jack will be there. Will he bring Locke with him? A little post-operation get to know each other moment?

Sawyer and Miles will probably show up when they hear Kate is there.

Who are Hurley and Sayid getting? Ben?

[mikeyboy]

The driveshaft concert is mostlikely over...seeing enough time has passed for locke to leave the hospital after spinal sugery.

...and yet Kate and Sayid were still in holding cells. It did seem to be an incredibly quick recovery.

[Furtherman]

Fan made finale trailer than Damon Lindof tweeted himself with this message: WOW

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[instrument]

It was funny seeing jack still denying it was more than chance that locke wound up in his office..

[PD]

Really enjoyed that episode. Felt like they tied up some stuff and prepared the finale very well. I'm pumped for the last episode.
this.
it had a couple of twists (richard), it had evil ben, it had setup where Jack steps up.

[PD]

The only thing I didn't like about the episode is how quickly Ben turned heel again, and really for no apparent reason (although I'll reserve judgment on that after finale...maybe there is something behind it). But it really seems to take the luster off of his redemption episode.

My feeling is Ben is going to redeem himself in the final episode. All this getting close to smokey is for a reason. It's why he doesn't say anything after he's promised the island and then smokey says he's going to destroy the island. He's been able to get too close to smokey, due to smokey's blinding desire to leave the island. I feel like Ben and his relationship with smokey is going to play a huge part in the final episode.
I think ben will ultimately be on the "good" side - and the sideways Ben dinner with Alex and Rousseau helps me think that.

[K.C.]

I just had an interesting thought...we never got a full explanation about Libby....her giving Desmond the boat that sends him to the island and spying on Hurley...is it possible that Libby was the failsafe of this timeline like Desmond is of the flash sideways? Desmond's job seems to be to get people in place to save the island...Libby got Desmond to the island, who in turn became the new failsafe. And that in of itself is like the Jacob/Jack dynamic..."do this job as long as you can"

There are definitely some similarities to the Libby flashback scenes and the flash sideways Desmond.

[Kevin]

So after all that time, there is still running water in the compound, and when he turns it on, it just comes out clean...

Yea... Ok...

[Furtherman]

So after all that time, there is still running water in the compound, and when he turns it on, it just comes out clean...

Yea... Ok...

OMG you're right. This show sucks.

[underdog]

My feeling is Ben is going to redeem himself in the final episode. All this getting close to smokey is for a reason. It's why he doesn't say anything after he's promised the island and then smokey says he's going to destroy the island. He's been able to get too close to smokey, due to smokey's blinding desire to leave the island. I feel like Ben and his relationship with smokey is going to play a huge part in the final episode.

I love these recaps (http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20313460_20386359,00.html)

And he actually agrees with me about Ben! I'm finally forming relevant opinions about Lost, with only one episode to go.

[booster11373]

So after all that time, there is still running water in the compound, and when he turns it on, it just comes out clean...

Yea... Ok...

I think he let the tap run for a few seconds in their defence

[Kevin]

I think he let the tap run for a few seconds in their defence



Yea, but when water isnt turned on for a while, and a long while in this case, it comes out brown because of the rust in the pipes, and it makes a sound. That didnt happen.

[CountryBob]

Fan made finale trailer than Damon Lindof tweeted himself with this message: WOW

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Damn - that was great! I am gonna get my memory erased after Sunday and watch the series all over again!

[realmenhatelife]

I've always been incredibly attracted to Alex, and she was exponentially cuter in this last episode with her hair in braids.

[booster11373]

Yea, but when water isnt turned on for a while, and a long while in this case, it comes out brown because of the rust in the pipes, and it makes a sound. That didnt happen.

You didnt see the episode where Ben replaced all the metal pipes in the compound with PVC? What kind of fan are you?

[Kevin]

You didnt see the episode where Ben replaced all the metal pipes in the compound with PVC? What kind of fan are you?



Ohhhhh..

hmmm

musta missed that...

odd, i thought ive seen every ep..

[TooCute]

How is Jacob telling Jack hey dude you gotta keep this island safe by keeping the torhc lit blah blah blah just because I said so very different from hey Desmond you gotta push this button all day to keep us all safe just because I said so...

[Kevin]

How is Jacob telling Jack hey dude you gotta keep this island safe by keeping the torhc lit blah blah blah just because I said so very different from hey Desmond you gotta push this button all day to keep us all safe just because I said so...



Miracles.

[Freitag]

Last night was the first episode I saw since the pilot.

Apparently, they're all going to a concert.

Will this end like Bill and Ted's Bogus Journey?

[underdog]

How is Jacob telling Jack hey dude you gotta keep this island safe by keeping the torhc lit blah blah blah just because I said so very different from hey Desmond you gotta push this button all day to keep us all safe just because I said so...

That's one of the points of it. It shows how far Jack has come. He's started to believe in something other than just science.

[Kevin]

Last night was the first episode I saw since the pilot.

Apparently, they're all going to a concert.

Will this end like Bill and Ted's Bogus Journey?



Locke does kinda sorta look like death..

[Tenbatsuzen]

Locke does kinda sorta look like death..

I take it the concert is gonna be the Hobbit's band, right? Crankstick or something?

[Kevin]

I take it the concert is gonna be the Hobbit's band, right? Crankstick or something?

Driveshaft...

They are known for big sounds and of course terrible songs.

[Kevin]

Anyone notice that Kid Smokey looked NOTHING like grown up Smoke?

Kid Jacob looked alot like grown up Jacob.

[K.C.]

How is Jacob telling Jack hey dude you gotta keep this island safe by keeping the torhc lit blah blah blah just because I said so very different from hey Desmond you gotta push this button all day to keep us all safe just because I said so...


Character story arc. It's not different. He's different.


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[K.C.]

I think the other thing to consider, is that while people are focusing a little too much on the Jacob/MIB aspect of the story (because it's the most polarizing), I think the show is generally conveying that everything Jack has done in the last two seasons has been to try and make sure that the people who have died (Boone, Shannon, Eko, Libby, etc.)...who have made sacrifices (Charlie, Sayid)...and the people who have helped mold his evolution along the way (Locke) didn't die in vain.

That's the motivation for the characters.

The Jacob/MIB stuff is the context of the conversation. At a character level, it's still about all the people along the way and that's really what the show is about...character evolution and resolution.

[Furtherman]

The Jacob/MIB stuff is the context of the conversation. At a character level, it's still about all the people along the way and that's really what the show is about...character evolution and resolution.

Perfectly said. You and Doc Jensen really should be writing about Lost together.

[Furtherman]

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[PD]

top 10 lost spoilers from Letterman (with Carlton and Damon)
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[K.C.]

The Ben part of that Top 10 rules.

[Furtherman]

Damon and Carlton were at the NY Times for a Q&A tonight and I went... It was great, with two surprise guests and they even showed a non-spoilery clip with drew a big applause from the crowd. I'll check to see if it's online tomorrow, because it is a must see for all Lost fans and any doubters, because it probably help you see the show with less cynicism. Fantastic interview.

[Furtherman]

Here is the clip of Sunday's finale, if you want to see it. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkSZ0tUqAgA)


Shot from a phone, so it's not the best quality.

[PD]

Damon and Carlton were at the NY Times for a Q&A tonight and I went... It was great, with two surprise guests and they even showed a non-spoilery clip with drew a big applause from the crowd. I'll check to see if it's online tomorrow, because it is a must see for all Lost fans and any doubters, because it probably help you see the show with less cynicism. Fantastic interview.
must have been good - Im jealous.

Seems originally Illana was supposed to be Jacob's daughter, but they changed it.
I dunno how they would have done that though.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/celebritology/2010/05/lost_revelation_was_ilana.html

[Furtherman]

must have been good - Im jealous.

It was.

I hope it available soon, as it gave a great insight to what goes into writing a show, especially this one. Damon gave a great analogy: Writing a show like this is like having the Greatest American Hero suit, but you don't have the instructions. You can fly, but it can get bumpy on the way. They admit their mistakes, but also showed how they had the idea of where the show was going since the beginning. They showed clips from previous seasons showing their direction.

[instrument]

I see the end showing the differences in the two jacks, how unbelieving he is in fate as sideways jack (unwilling to believe locke was meant to meet hom etc.) And how jack after the island is finally ready to have faith.

[Furtherman]

I see the end showing the differences in the two jacks, how unbelieving he is in fate as sideways jack (unwilling to believe locke was meant to meet hom etc.) And how jack after the island is finally ready to have faith.

Jack: I don't believe in fate. Locke: You do. You just don't know it yet.

Lost season 1 episode 25

[PD]

interesting
Loved and Lost

http://www.nationalpost.com/arts/lost/index.html

[mikeyboy]

interesting
Loved and Lost

http://www.nationalpost.com/arts/lost/index.html

Since it's set up by seasons, isn't Ana Lucia in the wrong place? I thought she didn't show up until season 2

[Servo]

Since it's set up by seasons, isn't Ana Lucia in the wrong place? I thought she didn't show up until season 2

She was actually in the season 1 finale... Jack meets her in the airport bar.

[mikeyboy]

She was actually in the season 1 finale... Jack meets her in the airport bar.

ah. okay.

[K.C.]

By my calculations, there are only a few people left from the various island factions

Green = Alive
Orange = Missing/Unknown
Blue = Off-Island

Anyone not listed is dead.

Fuselage Survivors
Jack Shephard
Kate Austen
Hugo Reyes
James Ford
Claire Littleton
Rose Nadler
Aaron Littleton
Walt Lloyd

Tail Survivors
Bernard Nadler
Cindy Chandler
Zack
Emma
11 extras (all kidnapped by the Others in Season 2)

Others
Benjamin Linus
Richard Alpert
Remaining people who defected to MIB and were scattered in Widmore's strike

Kahana Freighter
Miles Straume
Frank Lapidus


DHARMA Initiative
All dead or off island.

Outsiders
Desmond Hume

1950-1970s Others
Eloise Hawking

Ajira 316
All dead

Widmore Team
All dead

Miscellaneous
The Man In Black
Vincent

[instrument]

i'm kinda disappointed we never found out why rousseau's team was on the island, her message about the black rock always made me thing she may have been related to widmore... Too bad she's too young to be penny's mom....which i also thought was gonna be an interesting reveal too.

[K.C.]

i'm kinda disappointed we never found out why rousseau's team was on the island, her message about the black rock always made me thing she may have been related to widmore... Too bad she's too young to be penny's mom....which i also thought was gonna be an interesting reveal too.

The Penny's mom part still may be...remember, Desmond & Co. are en route to the Charlie/Daniel concert being thrown at the Widmore gala in the Flash Sideways, which Penny is suppose to be at as well.

As far as the Rousseau part goes, they were never there for a reason. I think they basically said they left Tahiti to perform some type of research in the Pacific and ended up there by accident. They were never trying to get to the island.

[instrument]

if thats the case why would she say she was as the black rock? it sounds like whoever would've been looking for them had knowledge of the black rock being on the island? or did i always read too far into that.

If anybody can hear this, I'll try to make it to the Black Rock. Please help us ! They are all dead. They are dead. It [or he] killed them. It [or he] killed them all. I'll try to make it to the Black Rock."

[K.C.]

if thats the case why would she say she was as the black rock? it sounds like whoever would've been looking for them had knowledge of the black rock being on the island? or did i always read too far into that.

If anybody can hear this, I'll try to make it to the Black Rock. Please help us ! They are all dead. They are dead. It [or he] killed them. It [or he] killed them all. I'll try to make it to the Black Rock."

Because it says its name on the boat

http://ncjl.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/the-black-rock-02.jpg

[K.C.]

Pop-up version of the pilot episode on ABC tonight.

That actually would be pretty interesting. I watched the Pilot a month or so ago and there's a lot of pieces in it that foreshadowed things over the years.

The biggest one is obviously the Locke/Walt backgammon scene, but there's a lot of smaller pieces of foreshadowing as well.

[instrument]

Yes.......and sending a distress message referencing something that no ones heard of would be pointless thus why i always assumed from the message that whoever was looking for them had some knowledge of the island.

[MagillaGorillaz]

I hope we see a flash sideways Vincent.

[K.C.]

Yes.......and sending a distress message referencing something that no ones heard of would be pointless thus why i always assumed from the message that whoever was looking for them had some knowledge of the island.

While that's true...I think you're reading too much into it.

Nobody was looking for her. She recorded a panicked distress signal, and I think that's all there was to it.

The biggest Rousseau question in my mind is if she was on the island at the same time the DHARMA Initative and Others were, how the hell did no one find her.

[SHANEFROMGA]

While that's true...I think you're reading too much into it.

Nobody was looking for her. She recorded a panicked distress signal, and I think that's all there was to it.

The biggest Rousseau question in my mind is if she was on the island at the same time the DHARMA Initative and Others were, how the hell did no one find her.

going bat-shit crazy makes you the most tremendice hide and go seek player ever.

[SHANEFROMGA]

okay last season rose, benard and vincent were seen in the past living in a wood house they built in the 1970s, same house that ben took locke too to "talk" to jacob, and the same house the "body guards" of jacob burned down when they arrived on the island and saw the powder circle had been broken. where are benard and rose ? did they die in the 70s when the group tried to reset time ? i hope they mention that on the finale.

[Furtherman]

Rose and Bernard's house was not the same house that Ben took Locke to see Jacob, who as it turned out, was never Jacob in the first place, but MIB.

Rose and Bernard are not in the 70ks as they would travel through time as well with all 815ers. So they are still on the island, at their house, with Vincent.

[HBox]

Rose and Bernard are not in the 70ks as they would travel through time as well with all 815ers. So they are still on the island, at their house, with Vincent.

Oh WONDERFUL.

[Furtherman]

This pop-up pilot episode is great! Great reminders.

[K.C.]

Rose and Bernard's house was not the same house that Ben took Locke to see Jacob, who as it turned out, was never Jacob in the first place, but MIB.

Rose and Bernard are not in the 70ks as they would travel through time as well with all 815ers. So they are still on the island, at their house, with Vincent.

THIS.

I also offered up the following theory about Jacob's cabin and the containment ring.
-MIB appears to little kid Ben in the 70s as his mom (The Man Behind The Curtain)
-Kid Ben runs into the jungle and encounters Richard; he tells Richard he was chasing his mom through the jungle (The Man Behind The Curtain)
-Richard goes back to The Others and tells Eloise and Widmore (who are leading the Others), he tells them the story of how when he first came to the island, the black smoke appeared to him as his dead wife and then as a man who offered to bring her back if he killed Jacob. (Ab Aeterno)
-The Others devise a plan to trap MIB in the cabin by luring it in and trapping it in the containment ring.
-A few years pass...
-Eloise shoots Daniel; The Incident happens and from her perspective, Jack's plan failed to reverse the fate of her killing her son (The Incident)
-Distraught, Eloise, remembering Richard's story about the offer to get back someone who was lost, seeks out MIB and makes a deal to help him, in exchange for eliminating the existence in which she's doomed to kill her son.

So Eloise freed him, and her part about guiding people has been all in the name of the MIB portion of his plan to kill Jacob.

[PD]

Here is the clip of Sunday's finale, if you want to see it. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkSZ0tUqAgA)


Shot from a phone, so it's not the best quality.
they showed that clip when Damon and Carlton were on Jimmy Kimmel.

http://lost-media.com/2010/05/22/videos-damon-and-carlton-on-jimmy-kimmel-live/

if you didnt see that, it was interesting; they had audience give a few questions to later ask carlton and damon.
The audience included an interesting older multi-racial couple....

[Tenbatsuzen]

they showed that clip when Damon and Carlton were on Jimmy Kimmel.

http://lost-media.com/2010/05/22/videos-damon-and-carlton-on-jimmy-kimmel-live/

if you didnt see that, it was interesting; they had audience give a few questions to later ask carlton and damon.
The audience included an interesting older multi-racial couple....

the term is INTERracial. Derek Jeter is multi-racial.

[PD]

the term is INTERracial. Derek Jeter is multi-racial.
yeah, i realized it after i posted it.

unless both of them have interracial parents...

[Tall_James]

remember, Desmond & Co. are en route to the Charlie/Daniel concert being thrown at the Widmore gala

I hope he does "Devil Went Down To Georgia", always a crowd pleaser.

[SHANEFROMGA]

Rose and Bernard's house was not the same house that Ben took Locke to see Jacob, who as it turned out, was never Jacob in the first place, but MIB.

Rose and Bernard are not in the 70ks as they would travel through time as well with all 815ers. So they are still on the island, at their house, with Vincent.

i coulda sworn they were in the past, but hey, the show has had so many twists i could very well be mistaken.

[SHANEFROMGA]

Rose and Bernard's house was not the same house that Ben took Locke to see Jacob, who as it turned out, was never Jacob in the first place, but MIB.

Rose and Bernard are not in the 70ks as they would travel through time as well with all 815ers. So they are still on the island, at their house, with Vincent.

1977
Following the events of the previous episode, "Follow the Leader", Kate Austen (Evangeline Lilly), Juliet Burke (Elizabeth Mitchell) and James "Sawyer" Ford (Josh Holloway) are on a submarine leaving the island. Kate convinces Juliet and Sawyer that they need to stop Jack from detonating a hydrogen bomb on the island. They force the captain (William Makozak) to surface so that they may leave, instructing the captain to continue on course away from the island. They arrive on the island, where they are greeted by Vincent the dog, who has been in the care of Rose (L. Scott Caldwell) and Bernard Nadler (Sam Anderson) for the past three years. Rose explains to the trio that she and Bernard are now retired and live a quiet life near the beach, scavenging food and avoiding detection by the Dharma Initiative. Rose points them to the Dharma barracks and they leave.

they were living in the cabin that benard built for them.

[SHANEFROMGA]

1977
Following the events of the previous episode, "Follow the Leader", Kate Austen (Evangeline Lilly), Juliet Burke (Elizabeth Mitchell) and James "Sawyer" Ford (Josh Holloway) are on a submarine leaving the island. Kate convinces Juliet and Sawyer that they need to stop Jack from detonating a hydrogen bomb on the island. They force the captain (William Makozak) to surface so that they may leave, instructing the captain to continue on course away from the island. They arrive on the island, where they are greeted by Vincent the dog, who has been in the care of Rose (L. Scott Caldwell) and Bernard Nadler (Sam Anderson) for the past three years. Rose explains to the trio that she and Bernard are now retired and live a quiet life near the beach, scavenging food and avoiding detection by the Dharma Initiative. Rose points them to the Dharma barracks and they leave.

they were living in the cabin that benard built for them.

after watching the episode on hulu, i was right about them being in the 70s, maybe not so much on the cabin, unless benard did some work on it between times.

[PD]

after watching the episode on hulu, i was right about them being in the 70s, maybe not so much on the cabin, unless benard did some work on it between times.
except we don't know the effect of detonating Jughead on them.
it made Jack/Sawyer and group leap back to current time- we don't know what it did or didn't do to Bernard & Rose.

[Tommy Marbles]

Walt has to come into play tonight, right? Wasn't he the most critical aspect of the show at one point?