Norton Vs. Sirius/XM

[Gvac]

This past week the Sirius brass issued an edict that Norton is no longer allowed to record promos for his upcoming stand-up dates. They say it constitutes an advertisement and the comedy clubs should be paying for it.

Norton and O&A say it's free publicity for satellite radio when Norton has a show because he always plugs Sirius/XM and there's the potential for him to lure more subscribers.

Who do you think is right?

[badorties]

This past week the Sirius brass issued an edict that Norton is no longer allowed to record promos for his upcoming stand-up dates. They say it constitutes an advertisement and the comedy clubs should be paying for it.

Norton and O&A say it's free publicity for satellite radio when Norton has a show because he always plugs Sirius/XM and there's the potential for him to lure more subscribers.

Who do you think is right?

shouldn't the plugs be part of norton's compensation ...?

artie has always plugged away on the stern show, the crew of miserable men use their awful show to promote their horrible acts and jackie has plugged his jokeland empire over the air for decades

i havent' heard the show, why is it different for norton ...?

[Gvac]

shouldn't the plugs be part of norton's compensation ...?

artie has always plugged away on the stern show, the crew of miserable men use their awful show to promote their horrible acts and jackie has plugged his jokeland empire over the air for decades

i havent' heard the show, why is it different for norton ...?

Opie also argued just what your first point was - Norton gets paid far less than what he should (according to Opie) because the plugs are part of his compensation.

Apparently Sirius/XM doesn't have a problem with Norton plugging his gigs while he's on the air, it's the recorded promos that run all day that they are taking umbrage with.

[Foster]

Opie also argued just what your first point was - Norton gets paid far less than what he should (according to Opie) because the plugs are part of his compensation.

Apparently Sirius/XM doesn't have a problem with Norton plugging his gigs while he's on the air, it's the recorded promos that run all day that they are taking umbrage with.

listening to the re-play on thursday, I thought Norton straightened it all out during a break and his promos will run, just not as frequently

[badorties]

good for jimmy

[Gvac]

Wow...only one vote for Sirius/XM thus far.

Who, you ask?

Why, Mr. Corporate puppet himself - epo!

[epo]

I'll say the plugs during the show are fine. But the actual plugs that take place of paid advertising are a problem for the organization from a cash flow perspective. Unless those advertising spots are a part of his actual contract, I would pull them.

[Foster]

I'll say the plugs during the show are fine. But the actual plugs that take place of paid advertising are a problem for the organization from a cash flow perspective. Unless those advertising spots are a part of his actual contract, I would pull them.

the argument O&A put forth was that when Jimmy goes on shows like Leno and at his gigs he is always plugging the Sirius/XM. The cost of advertising on the Tonight Show is far more than a spot on their show.

[epo]

the argument O&A put forth was that when Jimmy goes on shows like Leno and at his gigs he is always plugging the Sirius/XM. The cost of advertising on the Tonight Show is far more than a spot on their show.

While that may be true, that is a common practice for someone working for an organization. Jimmy isn't really doing anything out of the norm on this one.

It is business practices such as giving Jimmy free advertising that has satellite radio is such a financial mess. Somebody needs to clean it up.

[Sinestro]

I'll say the plugs during the show are fine. But the actual plugs that take place of paid advertising are a problem for the organization from a cash flow perspective. Unless those advertising spots are a part of his actual contract, I would pull them.

What you said

[Foster]

While that may be true, that is a common practice for someone working for an organization. Jimmy isn't really doing anything out of the norm on this one.

It is business practices such as giving Jimmy free advertising that has satellite radio is such a financial mess. Somebody needs to clean it up.

have you heard the repetition of the commercials played during the breaks?
I'm sure if it came between doing a spot for Jimmy and an ad for Anal Lube the Anal Lube spot would be played. The fact is there is a ton of open time during the breaks and putting a Jimmy spot or a spot for someone else isn't taking away from the all those quality products.

[epo]

have you heard the repetition of the commercials played during the breaks?
I'm sure if it came between doing a spot for Jimmy and an ad for Anal Lube the Anal Lube spot would be played. The fact is there is a ton of open time during the breaks and putting a Jimmy spot or a spot for someone else isn't taking away from the all those quality products.

Does their sales staff do a shitty job? Dunno, but it sure seems like it. But from a pure business perspective its their job to play the Anal Lube ad instead of the Jimmy comedy club ad. Anal lube pays them money, while Jimmy doesn't.

[Dash77]

Let Jimmy plug I liked it better when most of the comics did plugs there was better than the tronix or life lock crap..

[Foster]

Does their sales staff do a shitty job? Dunno, but it sure seems like it. But from a pure business perspective its their job to play the Anal Lube ad instead of the Jimmy comedy club ad. Anal lube pays them money, while Jimmy doesn't.

I agree the Anal Lube takes priority over the Jimmy spot,
but Jimmy is paying the company back by plugging Sirius at his shows

[epo]

Let Jimmy plug I liked it better when most of the comics did plugs there was better than the tronix or life lock crap..

As a listener I'd like funk music instead of commercials. However funk music isn't going to pay the bills, and neither are Jimmy's ads for his comedy club dates.

[disneyspy]

we are the market that advertisers should be creamin their shorts over,if we have disposable income for xm and not just those ham n egger terrestial radio listeners why does sirius/xm have such shitty clients for advertisers?

[sailor]

we are the market that advertisers should be creamin their shorts over,if we have disposable income for xm and not just those ham n egger terrestial radio listeners why does sirius/xm have such shitty clients for advertisers?

we really like anal lube.

[K.C.]

Here's what I took out of it.

First, I understand SiriusXM's position on stopping the promos for Rich Vos, Patrice O'Neal, Bob Kelly, etc. That's just giving away free commercial time. If they want to plug their gigs, come in studio. It helps the show, and it helps the company.

Now, in regards to Norton, he's an extension of the show. His comedy gigs and public appearances feed back into the show and could potentially led to more subscribers for the platform.

For example, someone catches Norton's HBO One Night Stand on TV, and decides they like him. They look up his website to find out if he's doing any gigs near them in the near future, and they find out that he's a regular every day on the Opie & Anthony show on SiriusXM radio.

That's beneficial to the company.

If Norton does a set on Letterman or Leno, and wins people over...that's beneficial to the company.

So I don't see the problem.

Now, if they're bumping paying commercials for these promos, that's another thing, but I don't get the impression they really are.

[sailor]

have you heard the repetition of the commercials played during the breaks?
I'm sure if it came between doing a spot for Jimmy and an ad for Anal Lube the Anal Lube spot would be played. The fact is there is a ton of open time during the breaks and putting a Jimmy spot or a spot for someone else isn't taking away from the all those quality products.

Does their sales staff do a shitty job? Dunno, but it sure seems like it. But from a pure business perspective its their job to play the Anal Lube ad instead of the Jimmy comedy club ad. Anal lube pays them money, while Jimmy doesn't.

you realize he said the same thing, even though you phrased it like you were disagreeing?

[MadMatt]

While that may be true, that is a common practice for someone working for an organization. Jimmy isn't really doing anything out of the norm on this one.

It is business practices such as giving Jimmy free advertising that has satellite radio is such a financial mess. Somebody needs to clean it up.

That is ridiculous. How is taking care of the on-air talent bad for business?

Sirius is F-ed for far larger issues than helping support on-air talent. I would much rather hear spots for comedy gigs than crap that is playing on other XM stations at a competing time - it is like they are trying to drive listeners away from the channel. If I want to know what else is on SiriusXM, I will flip around or check the website.

That said, I fucking HATE Sirius and what they have done to satellite radio. They are trying to make it like commercial radio, which is what I DON'T WANT. Shallow playlists, prattling DJ's, increased prices, etc. I liked XM and fucking HATE Sirius.

[Bob Impact]

That is ridiculous. How is taking care of the on-air talent bad for business?

Sirius is F-ed for far larger issues than helping support on-air talent. I would much rather hear spots for comedy gigs than crap that is playing on other XM stations at a competing time - it is like they are trying to drive listeners away from the channel. If I want to know what else is on SiriusXM, I will flip around or check the website.

That said, I fucking HATE Sirius and what they have done to satellite radio. They are trying to make it like commercial radio, which is what I DON'T WANT. Shallow playlists, prattling DJ's, increased prices, etc. I liked XM and fucking HATE Sirius.

It's bad for business when commercials that aren't being paid for are being aired. As for the whole "plugging during appearances " thing, I would expect that an employee would do that, if not, oh well, that's a shame. If it came down to it I would recommend Norton, and by extension O&A renegotiate with Sirius XM to determine if they can find a place where they and the company agree on compensation, but to assume that unpaid commercials should be aired that benefit NOT only Norton but comedy clubs as well is ridiculous.

[Serpico1103]

It would seem to me that Norton's agent fucked up. If Norton considered the plugs as part of his compensation it should have been included in his contract.

I miss the comics plugs, they were always a funny break during the otherwise repetitive commercials.

[Foster]

That is ridiculous. How is taking care of the on-air talent bad for business?

Sirius is F-ed for far larger issues than helping support on-air talent. I would much rather hear spots for comedy gigs than crap that is playing on other XM stations at a competing time - it is like they are trying to drive listeners away from the channel. If I want to know what else is on SiriusXM, I will flip around or check the website.

That said, I fucking HATE Sirius and what they have done to satellite radio. They are trying to make it like commercial radio, which is what I DON'T WANT. Shallow playlists, prattling DJ's, increased prices, etc. I liked XM and fucking HATE Sirius.

exactly! the concept of having so many God damn commercials on a service we are paying for is ridiculous.

I would rather go back to paying the extra $2 a month and let the channel fill the breaks the way they please.









...and I know thats just wishful thinking

[epo]

It would seem to me that Norton's agent fucked up. If Norton considered the plugs as part of his compensation it should have been included in his contract.

I miss the comics plugs, they were always a funny break during the otherwise repetitive commercials.

Absolutely. And this part of what drives me insane about some people in talk radio. As the hosts...your professional problems are not my problems. I don't wanna hear about them.

[sailor]

Absolutely. And this part of what drives me insane about some people in talk radio. As the hosts...your professional problems are not my problems. I don't wanna hear about them.

and others would find it interesting. opinions and tastes vary.

[Serpico1103]

and others would find it interesting. opinions and tastes vary.

I would find it interested, but usually the conversation is too inside and filled with "well we can't talk about that" or "we resolved it, but we can't go into it now."

I would like the "inside stories" but they are usually too edited to understand or enjoy.

When Norton came back from meeting with the executive why couldn't he go to into detail about what was wrong with his plugs and how Sirius wants his plugs?

[Evolved]

listening to the re-play on thursday, I thought Norton straightened it all out during a break and his promos will run, just not as frequently

You're correct, this is a non issue. It was a misunderstanding.

[TripleSkeet]

While that may be true, that is a common practice for someone working for an organization. Jimmy isn't really doing anything out of the norm on this one.

It is business practices such as giving Jimmy free advertising that has satellite radio is such a financial mess. Somebody needs to clean it up.

1. Even if its "the norm" its something Jimmy doesnt have to do. The fact that he does it is good for the company, giving something back should be a non-issue. But then again corporate thinking has always been "do for us, do for us, do for us...and when theres nothing left, we throw you away like trash" so it doesnt surprise me.

2. Also, how is giving free advertising to someone who works for a show on your station part of the problem? The whole "sell" of satellite radio was commercial free radio. If they have to now depend on ads to survive Id say they have some far bigger problems going on.

[cougarjake13]

i can see both sides of the argument but im with norton

[KEITHJAY]

Maybe he shouldn't get as many regular commercials but where does it stop,next their going to say stop the on air plugs for Jim and others.The commercials are shit anyway and there getting worse, I fuckin pay for this shit? rant,rant rant, :thumbdown:

[~Katja~]

I agree the Anal Lube takes priority over the Jimmy spot,
but Jimmy is paying the company back by plugging Sirius at his shows

I don't know about you, but last time I ordered Anal Lube it had Sirius XM written all over it... and then it got plugged in ... never mind

[OGC]

It would seem to me that Norton's agent fucked up. If Norton considered the plugs as part of his compensation it should have been included in his contract.

This hits the point exactly. I am amazed that every little item of compensation isn't written into his contract. Unless I am wrong, Opie and Anthony (and I assume Norton) have signed new contracts since the merger. They all seemed to sense that things were not going to be so rosy with Sirius calling the shots so they should have had everything they expected as compensation listed.

Of course a reasonable person can see the argument that O&A and Norton make but Sirius is much more business like than XM ever was. They sort of have to watch every penny given their stagering debt.

[lleeder]

I think the comedians deserve all the plugs they can get. Some of the gigs these guys do to get paid are awful. I saw Bob Kelly at Ollies Point on a sunday a few months back and the amount of people tha showed up was embarassing. I can only imagine how many are there in Nebraska or whereever farmers live.

The thing I'll still never understand is why there are commercials at all? We pay a subscription fee yet we still have dick cream ads and live reads???? Wow satellite is revolutionary!!:thumbdown:

[Drunky McBetidont]

I think the comedians deserve all the plugs they can get. Some of the gigs these guys do to get paid are awful. I saw Bob Kelly at Ollies Point on a sunday a few months back and the amount of people tha showed up was embarassing. I can only imagine how many are there in Nebraska or whereever farmers live.

The thing I'll still never understand is why there are commercials at all? We pay a subscription fee yet we still have dick cream ads and live reads???? Wow satellite is revolutionary!!:thumbdown:

who pays to see bob kelly? fuckin' rube. did ya get those rick shapiro tix too? hahaha.

[Dash77]

As a listener I'd like funk music instead of commercials. However funk music isn't going to pay the bills, and neither are Jimmy's ads for his comedy club dates.

But they pay Jimmy for his service to the show, they can either pony up more money for Jimmy or let him plug..

[epo]

But they pay Jimmy for his service to the show, they can either pony up more money for Jimmy or let him plug..

That's a problem between him and his agent.

[Meataball23]

That is ridiculous. How is taking care of the on-air talent bad for business?

Sirius is F-ed for far larger issues than helping support on-air talent. I would much rather hear spots for comedy gigs than crap that is playing on other XM stations at a competing time - it is like they are trying to drive listeners away from the channel. If I want to know what else is on SiriusXM, I will flip around or check the website.

That said, I fucking HATE Sirius and what they have done to satellite radio. They are trying to make it like commercial radio, which is what I DON'T WANT. Shallow playlists, prattling DJ's, increased prices, etc. I liked XM and fucking HATE Sirius.

x2

Distain what they've done to the music channels (47,43,54,48,etc) they seem to have the same 15 song loop constantly. Also the djs and commercials are just too much. How much do I have to pay for different songs and limited commercials w/ Ron and Fez b/c I'll pay it....as long as Im employed

[dickydean]

I think Jim should be allowed to plug his gigs. Having said that like everything else there should be limits. I remember a Norton promo played so often I expected some whinney bitch to say "tell them about the discount Harry"

[oh_kee_pa]

if you step back and look at the whole thing SiriusXM is 100% in the right...

the gigs he plugs leads to O&A fans going, because O&A fans listen to the channel... then, at the Gigs he plugs SiriusXM, but they already have it because thats who he plugged the gig to... it's obviously a cycle effect...

and to use a late night spot as a defense is weak, IMO...

[Sinestro]

if you step back and look at the whole thing SiriusXM is 100% in the right...

.

So why haven't you voted yet?

[TripleSkeet]

and to use a late night spot as a defense is weak, IMO...

Really? Because Im pretty sure when he kills on the Tonight Show and then proceeds to tell thousands of people that dont have Sirius where they can listen to him, thats a pretty good ad for Sirius/XM. Better then most of their other advertisements.

[Evolved]

Really? Because Im pretty sure when he kills on the Tonight Show and then proceeds to tell thousands of people that dont have Sirius where they can listen to him, thats a pretty good ad for Sirius/XM. Better then most of their other advertisements.

Exactly. It more than the company does. Or Stern.

[Bob Impact]

Really? Because Im pretty sure when he kills on the Tonight Show and then proceeds to tell thousands of people that dont have Sirius where they can listen to him, thats a pretty good ad for Sirius/XM. Better then most of their other advertisements.

And that relates to comedy clubs how?

[sailor]

And that relates to comedy clubs how?

obviously the quid pro quo that's been the basis of most arguments in this thread. he promotes satellite during his gigs, including tonight show and clubs and they allow him to promote these same gigs on satellite.

[foodcourtdruide]

obviously the quid pro quo that's been the basis of most arguments in this thread. he promotes satellite during his gigs, including tonight show and clubs and they allow him to promote these same gigs on satellite.

It's not like Norton works for free though. Do we know if things like promotion for satellite on the tonight show aren't part of his contract? I don't think the two have that much to do wtih eachother. I think sirius/xm and Norton just need to work this out, which they probably will.

[Bob Impact]

obviously the quid pro quo that's been the basis of most arguments in this thread. he promotes satellite during his gigs, including tonight show and clubs and they allow him to promote these same gigs on satellite.

Quid pro quo is THE phrase there, long story short is that Norton is a paid employee, if he feels like his compensation isnt right he can renegotiate and see what his value is to the company. I was listening to him and O&A claim that they've always acted in good faith with companies they've worked for... are they serious?

[sailor]

It's not like Norton works for free though. Do we know if things like promotion for satellite on the tonight show aren't part of his contract? I don't think the two have that much to do wtih eachother. I think sirius/xm and Norton just need to work this out, which they probably will.

as others have pointed out, it seems like they already have. this thread has become more of an intellectual exercise than anything else.

[MadMatt]

Quid pro quo is THE phrase there, long story short is that Norton is a paid employee, if he feels like his compensation isnt right he can renegotiate and see what his value is to the company. I was listening to him and O&A claim that they've always acted in good faith with companies they've worked for... are they serious?

What they were saying is that the agreement has existed since Jimmy started with the show (and with the other comedians since at least WNEW). Everything should have continued with Sirius as their agreement called for a continuation of agreements made during the XM tenure. However, Sirius is nixing the plug portion as they don't see it as a viable or official part of the agreement.

Legally Sirius may be in the right, but it is completely a dick move they plays against operating in "good faith" and doesn't do what is best for the talent or channel.

[Liverspot]

Plug away Jimmy......

And Opie can drop in a FH Reilly plug every so often as well........

[Bob Impact]

What they were saying is that the agreement has existed since Jimmy started with the show (and with the other comedians since at least WNEW). Everything should have continued with Sirius as their agreement called for a continuation of agreements made during the XM tenure. However, Sirius is nixing the plug portion as they don't see it as a viable or official part of the agreement.

Legally Sirius may be in the right, but it is completely a dick move they plays against operating in "good faith" and doesn't do what is best for the talent or channel.

My point is that when you're dealing with a show that has NEVER operated in good faith with Sirius then Sirius has ZERO reason to operate based upon good faith agreements O&A made with XM.

[~Katja~]

obviously the quid pro quo that's been the basis of most arguments in this thread. he promotes satellite during his gigs, including tonight show and clubs and they allow him to promote these same gigs on satellite.

but he is allowed to plug the gigs during the show, it's the extra productions they run to advertise his shows, when he goes on any tv show or has a gig he does not run a produced commercial for sirius xm either, I can understand them asking to stop or reduce that.
He, just like all other comedians are welcome to plug during the show.
His ads run even between replays and on random weekend schedule, not just during the actual O&A time slots.

If I read right, someone already said that Jimmy discussed and cleared this all up with corporate and he will be allowed to play them but less often, so I am not sure why there is still an argument on this anyway.

[Bob Impact]

If I read right, someone already said that Jimmy discussed and cleared this all up with corporate and he will be allowed to play them but less often, so I am not sure why there is still an argument on this anyway.

Mostly sexual tension.

[TripleSkeet]

My point is that when you're dealing with a show that has NEVER operated in good faith with Sirius then Sirius has ZERO reason to operate based upon good faith agreements O&A made with XM.

I never said Sirius had to do anything. My point was when you have an employee that does extra by giving you free advertisement on huge rated television shows, it would be nice to have the common courtesy to let the guy promote his comedy gigs on his channel.

Like I said, the corporate way of thinking...take, take, take, take...and never ever give unless you are forced to.

[Bob Impact]

I never said Sirius had to do anything. My point was when you have an employee that does extra by giving you free advertisement on huge rated television shows, it would be nice to have the common courtesy to let the guy promote his comedy gigs on his channel.

Like I said, the corporate way of thinking...take, take, take, take...and never ever give unless you are forced to.

I still don't get it... how is promoting himself and the show he's on an example of Sirius taking anything from him?

[TripleSkeet]

I still don't get it... how is promoting himself and the show he's on an example of Sirius taking anything from him?

Are you really trying to tell me you dont understand how plugging a show that you can only hear by subscribing to Sirius on a national talk show with millions of viewers benefits Sirius as a company?

Really? Because if you dont I cant even continue this conversation because it would be like trying to talk to a lamp.

ITS FREE EXPOSURE ON A NATIONAL LEVEL. And they happily accept it. Just dont ask for anything in return.

[epo]

Are you really trying to tell me you dont understand how plugging a show that you can only hear by subscribing to Sirius on a national talk show with millions of viewers benefits Sirius as a company?

Really? Because if you dont I cant even continue this conversation because it would be like trying to talk to a lamp.

ITS FREE EXPOSURE ON A NATIONAL LEVEL. And they happily accept it. Just dont ask for anything in return.

But its not like that practice doesn't have anything benefits for his show. If the show can correlate subs to their program, it benefits the company but it also gives them more leverage to negotiate.

The whole issue is seems to be that he didn't have the plugs in his contract, and expected that practice to continue despite the new company having a much more business minded approach.

While I may loathe the "corporate" mindset of it, to expect different on Norton's behalf is simply childish.

[Bob Impact]

Are you really trying to tell me you dont understand how plugging a show that you can only hear by subscribing to Sirius on a national talk show with millions of viewers benefits Sirius as a company?

Really? Because if you dont I cant even continue this conversation because it would be like trying to talk to a lamp.

ITS FREE EXPOSURE ON A NATIONAL LEVEL. And they happily accept it. Just dont ask for anything in return.

You aren't reading what I'm writing, yes it benefits Sirius as well, but UNTIL Sirius demands that he plugs the show without any benefit to him it's a moot point. The "Anything in return" has changed from plugging on a national show to a lower contracted pay rate... this is the essence of the "Anti-Corporate" arguments I hear, they all shift around so that corporate is ALWAYS wrong and asking too much, it's NEVER that the worker/talent is.

Edit: All said and done I like what their solution was and understand where Norton was coming from, but at the end of the day I sympathize way more with corporate on this one, they're in the right here.

[scottinnj]

opinions and tastes vary.

which is why Anal Lube comes in so many flavors. I myself prefer the grape flavor. It's slippery texture and syrupy taste gives it a jelly-like experience.

Just type in "XM202" in the promo code section on your Anal Lube checkout page, and you'll recieve an additional 10% off your order!

[scottinnj]

Mostly sexual tension.

Which is why Anal Lube is recommended by two out of three marriage counselors to "spice things up" in the bedroom.

Any order over 6 oz. and we'll include FREE (excluding shipping charges) the proctologist-designed Anal Lube Insertion Kit, a $9.95 value to make prepping your spouse with proper lubrication quick and easy.
Just type in "AnalInsertionKit" in the promo code, add a mere $2.00 handling charge, and the kit is included with your order.

[Bob Impact]

Which is why Anal Lube is recommended by two out of three marriage counselors to "spice things up" in the bedroom.

Any order over 6 oz. and we'll include FREE (excluding shipping charges) the proctologist-designed Anal Lube Insertion Kit, a $9.95 value to make prepping your spouse with proper lubrication quick and easy.
Just type in "AnalInsertionKit" in the promo code, add a mere $2.00 handling charge, and the kit is included with your order.

:lol:

My favorite is the "free gift that's too sensual to mention on the radio... just enter promo code 'DOLL'..."

[scottinnj]

:lol:

My favorite is the "free gift that's too sensual to mention on the radio... just enter promo code 'DOLL'..."

All the ads with "promo codes" are the worst....it's the same read for all the radio personalities (like the gold commercials) and they all have their own promo code.

[TjM]

:lol:

My favorite is the "free gift that's too sensual to mention on the radio... just enter promo code 'DOLL'..."

I still want to know what that unmentionable free gift is

[KingModem]

Sirius XM is in the right. Unless it was in Jimmy's contract. It is basically like working at Old Navy and wearing the clothes you sell there for free outside of work. Not necessarily a bad thing because it promotes the store, but you should still buy the clothes at a discount because you are taking inventory from the store.

Make sense?

All in all, Jimmy got a lot of free ads from XM, so he should be appreciative at the least for what he got.