Fort Hood Shooting

[Dude!]

The same lowlife who heads a cabinet dept to be aware of returning veterans too. Turns out that scum never deployed to Iraq or Afghanistan

And these douches in the media with their questions on why did he do this? Hey assholes Olbermann and crew Because he took a direct interpretation of the Koran

a middle-aged bull dyke
has more to fear from islam
than just about anyone

odd, how self-destructive
people are

[WRESTLINGFAN]

a middle-aged bull dyke
has more to fear from islam
than just about anyone

odd, how self-destructive
people are

A person who comes out of the closet in theocracies like Iran ends up getting a death sentence

Enough with the United States being overrun with Millions of Christian Fundamentalists, This is no way near a theocracy they represent a small population, as wacky as they are they are not on the same level as Jihadists. Yes there are a few nutjobs who are Christians who bomb abortion clinics but many of them just carry silly signs

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Janet Napolitano looks like the biggest fool around. Its not the people opposed to illegal aliens, people listening to talk radio or NRA members that we need to focus on

[angrymissy]

Janet Napolitano looks like the biggest fool around. Its not the people opposed to illegal aliens, people listening to talk radio or NRA members that we need to focus on

Why does she look like a fool? She is trying to prevent a backlash that did, indeed, happen after the 9/11 attacks on innocent Muslims and people who just look like Middle-Easterners. She's not exactly out of line in her comments.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Why does she look like a fool? She is trying to prevent a backlash that did, indeed, happen after the 9/11 attacks on innocent Muslims and people who just look like Middle-Easterners. She's not exactly out of line in her comments.

As reprehensible as they were there were not large scale attacks on anyone who had olive skin. She was definitely out of line with her comments as they had to be later retracted by DHS

[angrymissy]

As reprehensible as they were there were not large scale attacks on anyone who had olive skin. She was definitely out of line with her comments as they had to be later retracted by DHS

I can't find a report anywhere of DHS retracting their comments on trying to prevent a backlash against Muslims. How exactly was this out of line?

"This was a terrible tragedy for all involved," Napolitano told reporters in the United Arab Emirates' capital Abu Dhabi. "Obviously, we object to - and do not believe - that anti-Muslim sentiment should emanate from this."

Napolitano said her agency is working with state and local groups to try to deflect any anti-Muslim anger after the Thursday attacks by Army Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan, a Muslim who reportedly expressed growing dismay over the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. The shootings left 13 people dead and 29 wounded.

"This was an individual who does not, obviously, represent the Muslim faith," she said after meeting with a group of women university students.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I can't find a report anywhere of DHS retracting their comments on trying to prevent a backlash against Muslims. How exactly was this out of line?

I dont see roving gangs of madmen out in the streets calling for violence against Muslims. We know better than to act like 7th century animals. If anyone does attack someone based on that then of course prosecute them

Well According to Napolitano she said an apology was owed

Acknowledging that “an apology is owed,” Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano promised Thursday to “meet and clear the air” with veterans groups that were offended by her agency’s report citing “returning veterans” as terrorist risks to the U.S. “To the extent veterans read it as an accusation,” Napolitano told FOX News, “an apology is owed.” “I’ll meet with the leaders of some of the veterans groups,” she promised on “FOX & Friends.” “The last thing we want to do is offend or castigate all veterans

[angrymissy]

I dont see roving gangs of madmen out in the streets calling for violence against Muslims. We know better than to act like 7th century animals. If anyone does attack someone based on that then of course prosecute them

Well According to Napolitano she said an apology was owed

Acknowledging that “an apology is owed,” Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano promised Thursday to “meet and clear the air” with veterans groups that were offended by her agency’s report citing “returning veterans” as terrorist risks to the U.S. “To the extent veterans read it as an accusation,” Napolitano told FOX News, “an apology is owed.” “I’ll meet with the leaders of some of the veterans groups,” she promised on “FOX & Friends.” “The last thing we want to do is offend or castigate all veterans

That happened after 9/11 though. Cars in parking lots of Mosques were torched, a Sikh was shot and killed, Mosques and Middle Eastern businesses were torched as well, Muslims were beaten... it happened.

Ok, you're talking about something entirely different than the statement she made regarding the event that we are discussing.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

That happened after 9/11 though. Cars in parking lots of Mosques were torched, a Sikh was shot and killed, Mosques and Middle Eastern businesses were torched as well, Muslims were beaten... it happened.

Ok, you're talking about something entirely different than the statement she made regarding the event that we are discussing.

I remember the incident regarding the Sikh, That was in the NYC Metro area I believe. And you know what happens when represhensible things are done like that? the perpetrators get arrested. It isnt like in other countries where they are held as heroes

[angrymissy]

I remember the incident regarding the Sikh, That was in the NYC Metro area I believe. And you know what happens when represhensible things are done like that? the perpetrators get arrested. It isnt like in other countries where they are held as heroes

That was only one of the incidents. A Sikh was beaten in the NYC Metro Area, one was shot and killed in AZ. Mosques were burned. Cars were torched, Middle Easterners were beaten.

My point is - she isn't out of line to make a statement against Muslim backlash.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

If this guy was named Maj. Thomas Jones he woulda been booted out of the Army before any of this would have happened. As red flags should have been raised. Thanks to political correctness and not wanting to offend anyone it was brushed under the rug until 13 people were gunned down

[A.J.]

If this guy was named Maj. Thomas Jones he woulda been booted out of the Army before any of this would have happened.

That's unusual.

[Freitag]

That's unusual.

It's what's new. WHOA-WHOA-WHOA-oh-WHOA

[badmonkey]

You guys have nitpicked nazi's vs socialism vs communism vs fascism to accomplish what?

The guy that killed unarmed Americans at Ft Hood hung out in a mosque in Falls Church, VA listening to an al qaeda sympathizing radical imam. I understand you have a vested interest in his mosque not being an influence on him or his participation there being an indicator of his agreement with that imam since our President spent 20 yrs listening to anti-American preaching in his church by Rev. Wright. Who gives a shit if Hitler was a socialist or a fascist? The Ft Hood shooter set off red flags and those red flags were ignored until he went on a shooting spree when it's too late. You guys are so easily distracted by making sure that your precious agenda not be attached to Hitler, that you seem to ignore the fact that we knew about this guy before he shot up our soldiers and did nothing about it. At a minimum, he should have been kicked out of the Army and maybe this could have been prevented. 13 innocent people were killed and you people are worried about the shooter being called a terrorist.

[EliSnow]

You guys have nitpicked nazi's vs socialism vs communism vs fascism to accomplish what?

The guy that killed unarmed Americans at Ft Hood hung out in a mosque in Falls Church, VA listening to an al qaeda sympathizing radical imam. I understand you have a vested interest in his mosque not being an influence on him or his participation there being an indicator of his agreement with that imam since our President spent 20 yrs listening to anti-American preaching in his church by Rev. Wright. Who gives a shit if Hitler was a socialist or a fascist? The Ft Hood shooter set off red flags and those red flags were ignored until he went on a shooting spree when it's too late. You guys are so easily distracted by making sure that your precious agenda not be attached to Hitler, that you seem to ignore the fact that we knew about this guy before he shot up our soldiers and did nothing about it. At a minimum, he should have been kicked out of the Army and maybe this could have been prevented.

Come on. People discussed these facts as well. This thread is over 12 pages long. You're acting like the Hitler thing started on page one and has taken up most of the thread.

Almost every thread has side detours. It's not like people entered into that type of discussion to avoid talking about what happened.

13 innocent people were killed and you people are worried about the shooter being called a terrorist

I'm calling bullshit. NO ONE in this thread was worred about calling this guy a terrorist. The issue was people using this incident to call all Muslims terrorist.

[angrymissy]

Who here is worried about him being called a terrorist?

It wasn't us posters with the "precious agendas" that brought up hitler, btw.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

So this lowlife vermin gets an education worth hundreds of thousands of dollars paid for by the taxpayer and is upset that there is a war against fundamentalist Islam. Let him get his court martial and Hang the SOB for treason

I will not lose sleep over that

[badmonkey]

Come on. People discussed these facts as well. This thread is over 12 pages long. You're acting like the Hitler thing started on page one and has taken up most of the thread.

Almost every thread has side detours. It's not like people entered into that type of discussion to avoid talking about what happened.



I'm calling bullshit. NO ONE in this thread was worred about calling this guy a terrorist. The issue was people using this incident to call all Muslims terrorist.

The detour occurs because of people nitpicking shit that doesn't matter, which is the staple of liberal debate on this forum.

Nobody's used this incident to "call all Muslims terrorist"... just this one guy, who just happens to be a Muslim terrorist who shot unarmed innocent people because of his insane religious beliefs.

[EliSnow]

The detour occurs because of people nitpicking shit that doesn't matter, which is the staple of liberal debate on this forum.

Absolute bullshit. I've seen detours happen in every forum, whether it's politics, sports or comic books. Going "off-topic" happens so often on this board that people have bitched about it often.

The detour also was started by someone arguing for a conservative side. And that person continued to take part in the detour.

And again, the detour started on page 10 of the thread after nine pages of discussion on this topic.

So your liberal debate staple is bullshit.


Nobody's used this incident to "call all Muslims terrorist"... just this one guy, who just happens to be a Muslim terrorist who shot unarmed innocent people because of his insane religious beliefs.

No one said that anyone is this thread did that. Just as no one is this thread said they were worried about calling this guy a terrorist.

Shit, Mojo came right out and called the guy an extremist.

[badmonkey]

I'm calling bullshit. NO ONE in this thread was worred about calling this guy a terrorist. The issue was people using this incident to call all Muslims terrorist.



Nobody's used this incident to "call all Muslims terrorist"... just this one guy, who just happens to be a Muslim terrorist who shot unarmed innocent people because of his insane religious beliefs.

No one said that anyone is this thread did that. Just as no one is this thread said they were worried about calling this guy a terrorist.

Make up your mind.

[EliSnow]

Make up your mind.

The two are not contradictory. The first part refers to a concern that people, not just on this board, would do that.

I was not saying that someone actually said that. If that's what I meant, that's what I would have said.

[badmonkey]

The two are not contradictory. The first part refers to a concern that people, not just on this board, would do that.

I was not saying that someone actually said that. If that's what I meant, that's what I would have said.

Ohhhhhhhhhhhh.... so you're upset about something that isn't actually happening.

[EliSnow]

Ohhhhhhhhhhhh.... so you're upset about something that isn't actually happening.

Who said I or anyone else was "upset?" I was talking about what the discussion was in this thread.

And in the past, similar incidents have led to those sentiments. So, it's not like it couldn't happen.

[sr71blackbird]

If this guy was trying to contact Al Quada and become a terrorist, why was he so dead set about being shipped off to Afghanistan? He would have been right with "his people", if thats where his mind and heart were going, right?
If these reports that we were aware of his leanings and intentions to contact Al Quada turn out to be true, why would we send him there?

Finally, and this is a super crazy long idea, but I'll just throw it out there: is there the slightest possibility that this could be a "wag the dog" type of event to divert public attention away from the health care and slumping approval issues? Again, I just threw it out there to see what people think, and not to incite anything or fan flames.
Not that I think it is either, it just came into my mind that this might be a perfect cover to divert the countrys attention away from something....

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Imagine this was the cold war during the 1950s and There was an incident where an army Officer was communicating with Moscow. What would happen? A rope a tree, some assembly required

[midwestjeff]

Imagine this was the cold war during the 1950s

I tried but I got stuck on the sheer awesomeness of a whites only water fountain.

Maybe later.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I tried but I got stuck on the sheer awesomeness of a whites only water fountain.

Maybe later.

http://www.dance-lyrics.com/ama/ani_difranco_b0000058me.jpg

[GregoryJoseph]

ISLAM IS A RELIGION OF PEACE!!!


Oy vey...

[high fly]

Imagine this was the cold war during the 1950s and There was an incident where an army Officer was communicating with Moscow. What would happen? A rope a tree, some assembly required

No, we had "the rule of law" back in the 50s, too.
We'd put them on trial if we had the evidence, but there were other times we did not.
I know of at least one chap who was an American military officer who spied for the Soviets and is buried at Arlington.

You're confused with lynching, which didn't involve the Soviets at all......

[WRESTLINGFAN]

No, we had "the rule of law" back in the 50s, too.
We'd put them on trial if we had the evidence, but there were other times we did not.
I know of at least one chap who was an American military officer who spied for the Soviets and is buried at Arlington.

You're confused with lynching, which didn't involve the Soviets at all......

Well we have evidence here 13 people are dead 41 are injured and a madman took a literal interpretation of the Koran

[WRESTLINGFAN]

ISLAM IS A RELIGION OF PEACE!!!


Oy vey...


INFIDEL !!!!!

[midwestjeff]

INFIDEL !!!!!

Seriously.

While the rest of us losers sit around here talking about it
this guy is in heaven banging virgins.

[mikeyboy]

Seriously.

While the rest of us losers sit around here talking about it
this guy is in heaven banging virgins.

but, he's not dead.

[midwestjeff]

but, he's not dead.

Fucking lawyers.

Always coming with the details.

[underdog]

ISLAM IS A RELIGION OF PEACE!!!


Oy vey...

I wish you could add more cliches to political threads.

[Serpico1103]

ISLAM IS A RELIGION OF PEACE!!!
Oy vey...

How would Anthony react to his gun logic used against him.
Religion doesn't kill people. People kill people.

[disneyspy]

Seriously.

While the rest of us losers sit around here talking about it
this guy is in heaven banging virgins.


i dont think they're really virgins

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Seriously.

While the rest of us losers sit around here talking about it
this guy is in heaven banging virgins.

He could be in hell soon taking it in the ass from Mohammed Atta

[sr71blackbird]

The noose is tightening

[WRESTLINGFAN]

This wasnt terrorism, it was a man made disaster

[badmonkey]

On the bright side, they're executing John Allen Muhammad tonight (http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iusIZC8PvRjuCm5Im_c_yzitM93AD9BT097G0) in Virginia.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

On the bright side, they're executing John Allen Muhammad tonight (http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iusIZC8PvRjuCm5Im_c_yzitM93AD9BT097G0) in Virginia.

And it was a success, Hes off to see super Allah


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_sniper_execution

[SonOfSmeagol]

And it was a success, Hes off to see super Allah


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_sniper_execution

I so agree with the punishment meted out, as small a consolation to the victims as it was. I’m pissed it took so long. How sad is it that the guy had absolutely nothing to say. I disagree that he died with dignity, as his lawyer said. I think he died in utter disgrace to most other humans, and in the end, everything his pitiful life represented.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I so agree with the punishment meted out, as small a consolation to the victims as it was. I’m pissed it took so long. How sad is it that the guy had absolutely nothing to say. I disagree that he died with dignity, as his lawyer said. I think he died in utter disgrace to most other humans, and in the end, everything his pitiful life represented.

And I hope the same result is for Hassan. To hell with giving him 3 hots and a cot for the rest of his life if he comes out of that coma and faces court martial. I dont care if he is called a "martyr" The SOB should suffer a slow death sentence

[TheMojoPin]

ISLAM IS A RELIGION OF PEACE!!!


Oy vey...

Considering it a "religion of peace" or a "religion of hate" are both simplistic, inaccurate views reliant on interpretations of wildly inconsistent religious texts. One could easily make an argument for either viewpoint using the same book, which just goes to show how nobody should be using it to explicitly dictate their life.

This can also be applied to almost every other major religious text from the main global religions.

[TheMojoPin]

The FBI REALLY dropped the ball here. Completely unacceptable.

[high fly]

Considering it a "religion of peace" or a "religion of hate" are both simplistic, inaccurate views reliant on interpretations of wildly inconsistent religious texts. One could easily make an argument for either viewpoint using the same book, which just goes to show how nobody should be using it to explicitly dictate their life.

This can also be applied to almost every other major religious text from the main global religions.


It's a religion of peace for 1.3 billion and is not one of peace for a few thousand.
Kinda like Christianity, where most are peaceful but a small minority are not.

I think the Muslim extremists have done to Islam what the KKK or Christian IIdentity have done to Christianity....

[TheMojoPin]

If this guy was named Maj. Thomas Jones he woulda been booted out of the Army before any of this would have happened. As red flags should have been raised. Thanks to political correctness and not wanting to offend anyone it was brushed under the rug until 13 people were gunned down

What a stupid conclusion. If the FBI and the DoD actually knew what is being claimed any claims of PC would have been even bullshittier than usual since he could have been prosecuted as a criminal well before this occured. "Political correctness" has nothing to do with this.

[~Katja~]

On the bright side, they're executing John Allen Muhammad tonight (http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iusIZC8PvRjuCm5Im_c_yzitM93AD9BT097G0) in Virginia.
heard the news say he was pronounced dead at 9:11 pm

[TheMojoPin]

It's a religion of peace for 1.3 billion and is not one of peace for a few thousand.
Kinda like Christianity, where most are peaceful but a small minority are not.

I think the Muslim extremists have done to Islam what the KKK or Christian IIdentity have done to Christianity....

Both sides, however, can make conclusive arguments using the same texts.

[weekapaugjz]

heard the news say he was pronounced dead at 9:11 pm

OH MY GOD!!! IT'S A CONSPIRACY!!!

[~Katja~]

OH MY GOD!!! IT'S A CONSPIRACY!!!
or stupid news channels hyping it up.


edit: or maybe I confuse you for that other guy

[weekapaugjz]

or stupid news channels hyping it up.


you really try to peg me as an idiot any way you can... I get it, you are way off. But keep at it if that makes you happy. I could care less.


it's a fucking joke. relax.

it had nothing to do with you. just conspiracy theories, maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan!

[~Katja~]

it's a fucking joke. relax.

it had nothing to do with you. just conspiracy theories, maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan!
see my edit. sorry :)

[Dude!]

weekapaugjz is racist
against germans

[weekapaugjz]

weekapaugjz is racist
against germans

my family tree
begs to differ

[Dude!]

my family tree
begs to differ

uh-oh
that makes you a self-hating german

[weekapaugjz]

uh-oh
that makes you a self-hating german

being german
has nothing to do
with my self hating

[Dude!]

being german
has nothing to do
with my self hating

is your last name zed?

[weekapaugjz]

is your last name zed?

nope
but you have
the first letter
right

[Dude!]

nope
but you have
the first letter
right

i deduced that
from the jz

brilliant, i say

[high fly]

Originally Posted by high fly
It's a religion of peace for 1.3 billion and is not one of peace for a few thousand.
Kinda like Christianity, where most are peaceful but a small minority are not.

I think the Muslim extremists have done to Islam what the KKK or Christian IIdentity have done to Christianity....

Both sides, however, can make conclusive arguments using the same texts.


At least they seem conclusive to those involved.
Same with killers who are of other faiths who seek religious justification.
Ever read Pape's book analyzing suicide bombers?
He shows that religion is more of an organizing factor rather than a motivation...

[TheMojoPin]

At least they seem conclusive to those involved.
Same with killers who are of other faiths who seek religious justification.
Ever read Pape's book analyzing suicide bombers?
He shows that religion is more of an organizing factor rather than a motivation...

I have not. What's it called?

[mikeyboy]

I have not. What's it called?

Your mom.

*checks forum*

whew

[TheMojoPin]

Your mom.

*checks forum*

whew

http://hikkyz.net/void/img/badenoughdude.jpg

[A.J.]

The FBI REALLY dropped the ball here. Completely unacceptable.

Shocking that. Since they're still using a pre-9/11 computer network.

[TheMojoPin]

Shocking that. Since they're still using a pre-9/11 computer network.

I hope they just create another security agency instead of actually making sure the pre-existing ones share and act on their information.

[A.J.]

I hope they just create another security agency instead of actually making sure the pre-existing ones share and act on their information.

B-b-b-but...the politicians need to show the American people they're DOING something!

[TheMojoPin]

B-b-b-but...the politicians need to show the American people they're DOING something!

Welcome aboard to the Center for Secure Homeland Intelligence Investigation!

[Dude!]

at times like these
i think we all miss
Dick Cheney

[A.J.]

Welcome aboard to the Center for Secure Homeland Intelligence Investigation!

CS....HIII!

http://images.dailyradar.com/media/uploads/showhype/story_large/2009/01/30/245n9tc.jpg

[high fly]

I have not. What's it called?

DYING TO WIN The Strategic Logic of Suicide Terrorism, by Robert A. Pape (Random House, 2005)

What Pape did was examine every case of suicide bombing from 1980 to 2003. For many of them there were biographical articles in local news media with interviews of those who knew the bomber as well as those videos they sometimes make. There was a lot more he looked at, too.
He found a lot of common threads between them, here are a couple of quotes:

“first, although religious motives may matter and although Islamic groups receive the most attention in Western media, modern suicide terrorism is not limited to Islamic fundamentalism… the explicitly antireligious Tamil Tigers have committed 76 of the 315 suicide attacks, more than any group;….
….Even among Muslims, secular groups account for over a third of suicide attacks. The Kurdish PKK, which has used suicide bombers as part of its strategy to achieve Kurdish autonomy, is guided by the secular Marxist-Leninist ideology of its leader, Abdullah Ocalan, rather than by Islam. Even in the conflicts most characterized by Islamic fundamentalism, groups with secular ideologies account for an important number of suicide attacks. The Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, a Marxist-Leninist group, and the al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades, with allegiance to Yasser Arafat’s Fatah movement, together account for thirty-one of ninety-two suicide attacks against Israel, while communist and socialist groups, such as the secular Lebanese National Resistance Front, the Lebanese Communist Party, and the Syrian National Socialist Party, account for twenty-seven of thirty-six attacks in Lebanon in the 1980s.
Overall, Islamic fundamentalism is associated with about half of the suicide terrorist attacks that have occurred from 1980 to 2003….” – page 16 - 17


“The strategic logic of suicide terrorism is aimed at political coercion. The vast majority of suicide terrorist attacks are not isolated or random acts by individual fanatics, but rather occur in clusters as part of a larger campaign by an organized group to achieve a specific political goal. Moreover, the main goals of suicide terrorist groups are profoundly of this world. Suicide terrorist campaigns are primarily nationalistic, not religious, nor are they particularly Islamic….. every group mounting a suicide campaign over the past two decades has had as a major objective – or as its central objective – coercing a foreign state that has military forces in what the terrorists see as their homeland to take those forces out….” – page 21


The above quotes are not based on opinion, but on research that bear them out. Pape has a number of charts and graphs to illustrate his findings.
I can post some more quotes from the book if you want.
Some of the major bookstores have copies of Pape's book in stock or it can be ordered pretty cheap....

[Serpico1103]

DYING TO WIN The Strategic Logic of Suicide Terrorism, by Robert A. Pape (Random House, 2005)


The above quotes are not based on opinion, but on research that bear them out. Pape has a number of charts and graphs to illustrate his findings.
I can post some more quotes from the book if you want.
Some of the major bookstores have copies of Pape's book in stock or it can be ordered pretty cheap....

While his argument seems logically. Did he take into account that they hate our freedoms?

I don't think it takes a genius to figure out that terror groups need real motivation to gather widespread support. Unfortunately, the US all too often gives them motivation by acting like a bull in a china shop with no regard with other cultures or traditions dating back to before our Declaration of Independence.
You don't win a war on terror by fighting a war. You win a war on terror by taking away the fuel for the terrorist's propaganda. Let Bin Laden be an extremist, but take away his steady supply of anger disenfranchised hopeless young adult males.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

While his argument seems logically. Did he take into account that they hate our freedoms?

I don't think it takes a genius to figure out that terror groups need real motivation to gather widespread support. Unfortunately, the US all too often gives them motivation by acting like a bull in a china shop with no regard with other cultures or traditions dating back to before our Declaration of Independence.
You don't win a war on terror by fighting a war. You win a war on terror by taking away the fuel for the terrorist's propaganda. Let Bin Laden be an extremist, but take away his steady supply of anger disenfranchised hopeless young adult males.

While I agree that staying in Afghanistan isnt the best way of fighting the war on Extremest Islam. While many terrorists are Young males, the wave of terrorist attacks outside the middle east since 2001 haven not been conducted by poor Arabs living in some refugee camp in Gaza. Many were carried out by well educated some of them upper middle class men with a twisted view of their religion

[high fly]

While I agree that staying in Afghanistan isnt the best way of fighting the war on Extremest Islam. While many terrorists are Young males, the wave of terrorist attacks outside the middle east since 2001 haven not been conducted by poor Arabs living in some refugee camp in Gaza. Many were carried out by well educated some of them upper middle class men with a twisted view of their religion

That applies to the ones who carried out suicide campaigns over there as well.
It was not a twisted view of their religion that drove them to make suicide bombing attacks. Rather, it was the occupation of their homeland by a democracy that could not be fought any other way.
A great deal of them were not religious at all, and at least one of them in Lebanon was a female American Christian schoolteacher, as I recall.

Pape shows that public support for Palestinian suicide bombing is far greater than their support for Islamic fundamentalism so there is no connection between their religious beliefs and suicide bombing. Those who support suicide bombing are far more likely to support secular rather than religious insurgent groups.

[high fly]

While his argument seems logically. Did he take into account that they hate our freedoms?

I don't think it takes a genius to figure out that terror groups need real motivation to gather widespread support. Unfortunately, the US all too often gives them motivation by acting like a bull in a china shop with no regard with other cultures or traditions dating back to before our Declaration of Independence.
You don't win a war on terror by fighting a war. You win a war on terror by taking away the fuel for the terrorist's propaganda. Let Bin Laden be an extremist, but take away his steady supply of anger disenfranchised hopeless young adult males.


What Pape says, and what we also read supported by excellent arguments in Michael Scheuer's Imperial Hubris and Through Our Enemies' Eyes is they attack us for what we do rather than what we are. They are not attacking us because we drink booze, watch porn, have high divorce rates or are nice to gays.




Here is why bin Laden says he is attacking us:

“The call to wage war against America was made because America has spearheaded the crusade against the Islamic nation, sending tens of thousands of its troops to the land of the two holy Mosques [Saudi Arabia] over and above its meddling in its affairs and its politics, and its support of the oppressive, corrupt and tyrannical regime that is in control. These are the reasons behind the singling out of America as a target.”

“The Arab Peninsula has never – since Allah made it flat, created its desert, and encircled it with seas – been stormed by any force like the Crusader armies spreading in it like locusts eating its riches and wiping out its plantations. All this is happening at a time in which nations are attacking Muslims like people fighting over a plate of food...
No one argues today about three facts that are known to everyone. We will list them, in order to remind everyone:
First, for over seven years the United States has been occupying the lands of Islam in the holiest of places, the Arabian Peninsula, plundering its riches, dictating to its rulers, humiliating its people, terrorizing its neighbors, and turning its bases in the Peninsula into a spearhead through which to fight the neighboring Muslim peoples...
Second, despite the great devastation inflicted on the Iraqi people by the Crusader-Zionist alliance, and despite the huge number of those killed, which has exceeded one million...here they come to annihilate what is left of this people and to humiliate their Muslim neighbors.
Third, if the Americans’ aims behind these wars are religious and economic, the aim is also to serve the Jews petty state and divert attention from its occupation of Jeruselem and murder of Muslims there...
All these crimes and sins committed by the Americans are a clear declaration of war on Allah, his messenger and Muslims...
On that basis, and in compliance with Allah’s order, we issue the following fatwa to all Muslims:
The ruling to kill the Americans and their allies – civilians and military – is an individual duty for every Muslim....in order to liberate the al-Aqsa Mosque and the holy mosque [Mecca] from their grip, and in order for their armies to move out of all the lands of Islam, defeated and unable to threaten any Muslim.”

[Willmore]

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/11/13/fort.hood.hasan/index.html


Fuck the handicapped. First they take our parking spots, then they start killing our soldiers.

[opie's twisted balls]

Alleged Fort Hood shooter paralyzed from waist down, lawyer says

Well diddums! Too fucking bad the savage wasn't paralyzed from the neck up. Useless pile of shitty douchey mealy petulant radical garbage.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/11/13/fort.hood.hasan/index.html


Fuck the handicapped. First they take our parking spots, then they start killing our soldiers.

Great hes another protected class. A fucking handicapped Muslim

[Dude!]

Great hes another protected class. A fucking handicapped Muslim

he's going to sue the army
for his injuries no doubt

john edwards will probably
represent him for 50%
of the take

[A.J.]

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/11/13/fort.hood.hasan/index.html


Fuck the handicapped. First they take our parking spots, then they start killing our soldiers.

Guess he'll be taking a new oath.

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[WRESTLINGFAN]

Guess he'll be taking a new oath.

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Anyone see the similarity?

http://burbanked.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/pyle.jpg


http://wwwimage.cbsnews.com/images/2009/11/05/image5542033g.jpg

[hanso]

Shiny jihad head

[WRESTLINGFAN]

How was he promoted so quickly with very bad progress reports? Im not sure if the Military promotes people in the medical field differently than for example an Infantry officer. When I was in the Military it an average of 10 years for someone to become a Major which is a field grade officer. I believe Hassan made Maj in about 6 years

[EliSnow]

How was he promoted so quickly with very bad progress reports? Im not sure if the Military promotes people in the medical field differently than for example an Infantry officer. When I was in the Military it an average of 10 years for someone to become a Major which is a field grade officer. I believe Hassan made Maj in about 6 years

I read somewhere that medical/mental personnel get promoted differently than regular military.

[TheMojoPin]

I read somewhere that medical/mental personnel get promoted differently than regular military.

Yeah. The horrible irony in a lot of this is that it appears he rose as quickly as he did and the military was reluctant to let him go because of their desperate need for mental health practitioners.

[SonOfSmeagol]

Injured soldier outraged suspected shooter receives salary while his family financially struggles in recovery...The Army has not classified the wounds of the Ft. Hood victims as “combat related” and declines to label the shooting a “terrorist attack” (http://www.nbcdfw.com/investigations/Accused-Fort-Hood-Shooter-Paid-278000-While-Awaiting-Trial-208230691.html)

outrageous. PC bullshit. is the tone of this administration focused on not offending Islamic sensibilities, or maybe not wanting to admit a radical Islamic attack on our own soil, either way at the expense of injured troops?


mojo bump

[PapaBear]

The military has a long history of trying to get out of paying more, by not classifying injuries as "combat related". They have no legal loophole, in regards to the shooter's pay. This has nothing to do with this administration, or any other administration.

[SonOfSmeagol]

The military has a long history of trying to get out of paying more, by not classifying injuries as "combat related". They have no legal loophole, in regards to the shooter's pay. This has nothing to do with this administration, or any other administration.

sure, I can reluctantly accept the shooter's pay, which would probably be in place regardless of classification of the incident. But as far as the troops go, this was an unprecedented incident and the civilian and military Administration could indeed find a way to make good, imo.

[PapaBear]

sure, I can reluctantly accept the shooter's pay, which would probably be in place regardless of classification of the incident. But as far as the troops go, this was an unprecedented incident and the civilian and military Administration could indeed find a way to make good, imo.
I don't know. Did anyone get any combat or terrorism related pay when McVeigh bombed the Federal building in OK? I don't know if anyone in the building was military, but there's a good chance there was. And it was surely as much an act of terrorism as the Ft. Hood shootings were.

Did anyone get it when the Pentagon was attacked on 911?

Or the USS Cole?

[SonOfSmeagol]

I don't know. Did anyone get any combat or terrorism related pay when McVeigh bombed the Federal building in OK? I don't know if anyone in the building was military, but there's a good chance there was. And it was surely as much an act of terrorism as the Ft. Hood shootings were.

Did anyone get it when the Pentagon was attacked on 911?

Or the USS Cole?

not sure about military being killed in OKC, but I would think that for the Pentagon and Cole they would've since those were clearly labeled terrorism. if they didn't, they should've for all three.

btw I've visited the OKC memorial and if anyone gets the chance they should go - it's something. haven't been to the pentagon one yet, sad to say

[PapaBear]

not sure about military being killed in OKC, but I would think that for the Pentagon and Cole they would've since those were clearly labeled terrorism. if they didn't, they should've for all three.
Agreed. It really is ridiculous how narrow the classifications can be for combat pay. The perks of being an officer, over being enlisted, often mirror the differences between being a corporate CEO and a lowly "employee".

[SonOfSmeagol]

related is the backlog for VA claims:

V.A. Aims to Reduce Its Backlog of Claims...plans to process 250,000 claims that are one year or older within the next six months (V.A. Aims to Reduce Its Backlog of Claims)

I heard guidelines were recently opened for older vets so they could get more care, and combined with appeals and new requests the system is overloaded. hope they can clear it out - this is gov't money fucking well spent.

having said that, I know that there are huge inefficiencies in agencies like this, and they will likely spend much more to solve the immediate problem rather than the bigger picture. VA systems are antiquated or nonexistent I understand.

[hanso]

Read that this guy will try to represent himself in court

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Hassan will be entitled to an office and legal staff as well being able to question witnesses for the prosecution

[Jujubees2]

Read that this guy will try to represent himself in court

“a man who represents himself in court has a fool for a client.”

[Syd]

Read that this guy will try to represent himself in court

doesn't sound like the guy is entirely mentally fit to be on trial

[SonOfSmeagol]

doesn't sound like the guy is entirely mentally fit to be on trial

it sounds like he's making a "defense of others" argument: by killing the troops about to deploy to Afghanistan he was protecting the Taliban.

not all the facts are in yet on this case, and I'm not sure how open the military court will be...but, to be blunt, I see a sad-ass jihadist here ... are jihadists mentally unfit?

Judge gives accused Ft. Hood shooter 24 hours to outline defense (http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-hasan-court-martial-fort-hood-shooting-20130604,0,5480295.story)

[spoon]

let's just hope vinny can get his defense in order in time!

[SonOfSmeagol]

guilty (http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Nidal-Hasan-Verdict-Fort-Hood-Shooting-Trial-220834651.html)

can we stop paying him now and get him breaking some rocks until martyr day?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

guilty (http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Nidal-Hasan-Verdict-Fort-Hood-Shooting-Trial-220834651.html)

can we stop paying him now and get him breaking some rocks until martyr day?

I would rather him be sentenced to life of hard labor. Don't execute him. It will only make him a martyr.

[A.J.]

guilty (http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Nidal-Hasan-Verdict-Fort-Hood-Shooting-Trial-220834651.html)

can we stop paying him now and get him breaking some rocks until martyr day?

That's going to be hard to do from a wheelchair.

[SonOfSmeagol]

That's going to be hard to do from a wheelchair.

bah! these AQ guys are nothing if not improvisors

[WRESTLINGFAN]

If Hassan gets death. Perry won't be the one who signs it. The president would have to