Global Warming Debate

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I can't wait for global warming and for New Jersey to go underwater. Its gonna be fabulous!

Sussex country will be the new Jersey Shore

[WRESTLINGFAN]

We have not heard from the bloated one lately.


http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysis/Article.aspx?id=522005

[epo]

Giant iceberg breaks off from Antarctic glacier (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/02/26/AR2010022601888.html?hpid=moreheadlines)

An iceberg the size of Luxembourg has broken off from a glacier in Antarctica after being rammed by another giant iceberg, scientists said on Friday, in an event that could affect ocean circulation patterns.

The 2,500 sq km (965 sq mile) iceberg broke off earlier this month from the Mertz Glacier's 160 km (100 miles) floating tongue of ice that sticks out into the Southern Ocean.

The collision has since halved the size of the tongue that drains ice from the vast East Antarctic ice sheet.

This debate isn't about Al Gore, or WrestlingFan...its about data, facts and science.

[booster11373]

Giant iceberg breaks off from Antarctic glacier (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/02/26/AR2010022601888.html?hpid=moreheadlines)



This debate isn't about Al Gore, or WrestlingFan...its about data, facts and science.

But that makes it easier for the idiots to have something to say about the issue

[tanless1]

Ever hear of Pangea ? We've never been static.

[SonOfSmeagol]

Giant iceberg breaks off from Antarctic glacier (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/02/26/AR2010022601888.html?hpid=moreheadlines)

This debate isn't about Al Gore, or WrestlingFan...its about data, facts and science.

good point.
from your article:

"The calving itself hasn't been directly linked to climate change but it is related to the natural processes occurring on the ice sheet"

[Dude!]

good point.
from your article:

"The calving itself hasn't been directly linked to climate change but it is related to the natural processes occurring on the ice sheet"


excellent point...face!

it is always 'global warming'
when it suits their agenda
even if the facts are ambiguous
or even contrary

i feel sad for people like epo
who have been brainwashed...
people should think for themselves

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Too much snow, climate change, too little snow climate change. Too Hot climate change, too cold climate change. Your team cant make earthquakes climate change, volcanoes climate change your team cant make the playoffs , climate change?

Its become the Tooth fairy Easter bunny and boogeyman all rolled into 1

[Snoogans]

the point about the ice breaking off wasnt to bring up climate change. It was them sayin that the ice could change ocean currents that should worry people.

not enough people understand just how much the ocean currents impact climate

[tanless1]

....you could say the same for sunspots

[tanless1]

Gentlmen - however arrogant and indignant and caustic the other side may be,....this will be an even tougher/longer fight if you do not open your heart to their return to reason. Global warming crowed are heavily invested emotionaly. They've been told(and they believed) they are the smartest on the block......don't freeze them out.

[booster11373]

Gentlmen - however arrogant and indignant and caustic the other side may be,....this will be an even tougher/longer fight if you do not open your heart their return to reason. Global warming crowed are heavily invested emotionaly. They've been told(and they believed) they are the smartest on the block......don't freeze them out.

Why are you some emotionally invested in disproving it?

[tanless1]

Nothing to disprove.

[tanless1]

Why are the snake oil salesmen run out of town ?

[booster11373]

Nothing to disprove.

So you believe that Mankind has had no effect on our enviroment?

[tanless1]

I do not believe that global warming is caused by man. I believe that a naturaly occuring event is being piggy backed for political and monetary gain of few.
Further more, I do not believe that oil is a fossile fuel, I believe it occurs naturaly as a product of the earths core, and if not used becomes an enviromental hazzard.

[tanless1]

I believe co2 is nessecary for the survival of man, and that we should stop paying farmers not to grow.

[tanless1]

I believe we should explore all fuel sources....instead of standing in the way of nuclear and in the way of petro.

[booster11373]

I do not believe that global warming is caused by man. I believe that a naturaly occuring event is being piggy backed for political and monetary gain of few.
Further more, I do not believe that oil is a fossile fuel, I believe it occurs naturaly as a product of the earths core, and if not used becomes an enviromental hazzard.

What is your basis for that belief? specifically your belief about oil

[tanless1]

I believe that our govt has stood in the way of exploring natural gas for decades.

[booster11373]

I believe that our govt has stood in the way of exploring natural gas for decades.

Thats not what I asked you, Why do you believe that oil is not a fossil fuel?

[tanless1]

I believe the department of interior is making yet another land grab under the guise of federal parks to either block access to natural recources , or to make themselves a 51% partner in whatever is excavated.

[Furtherman]

Thats not what I asked you, Why do you believe that oil is not a fossil fuel?

Give him some time to google the proposal that some believe.

[tanless1]

.....many reasons, the way the capped wells continue to refill for one.
...what makes you think they are fossil fuels ?

[StanUpshaw]

What are your feeling on evolution?

[booster11373]

.....many reasons, the way the capped wells continue to refill for one.
...what makes you think they are fossil fuels ?

My education.

Whats yours?

[tanless1]

I've written plenty on my feelings regarding evolution,,,,,you can check the other threads.

[booster11373]

I've written plenty on my feelings regarding evolution,,,,,you can check the other threads.

Will you explain your basis on believing that oil is not a fossil fuel?

[tanless1]

Common boost....what part of the chain dictates that its a dead dinasour or plant matter ? If this is the real boosterp , it won't be an issue for you.

[tanless1]

I'm sure you've got that long carbon chain on a post - it.....so sock it to me

[booster11373]

Common boost....what part of the chain dictates that its a dead dinasour or plant matter ? If this is the real boosterp , it won't be an issue for you.

I dont know who you think you are talking to but you dont seem capable of answering my original question

What is your basis for believing oil is not a fossil fuel

[tanless1]

I gave you anecdotal evidence, how about you post that molecule , and well discuss it.
....unless your education consists of a book and a teacher that told you it was true w/ no further thought

[tanless1]

....and be quick about it, I'm running out of battery

[booster11373]

I gave you anecdotal evidence, how about you post that molecule , and well discuss it.
....unless your education consists of a book and a teacher that told you it was true w/ no further thought

Even if thats my basis what is yours? are you capable of answering that question?

Why do you believe oil is not a fossil fuel?

[tanless1]

Petro is a c3......what was dirt again.....I'm not going to disertate unless you participate.

[tanless1]

Come on tiger,,,let's talk

[booster11373]

Petro is a c3......what was dirt again.....I'm not going to disertate unless you participate.

Your are just being silly now

Its a simple question Why do you believe that oil is not a fossil fuel?

it doesn't require you to elaborate at all, just tell us why you believe what you believe

[tanless1]

What energy is most commonly used to foster a chemical reaction/change ?

[disneyspy]

What energy is most commonly used to foster a chemical reaction/change ?

photosynthesis

[booster11373]

What energy is most commonly used to foster a chemical reaction/change ?

Ive asked this question numerous times now

Why do you believe that oil is not a fossil fuel?

You have proven incapable of answering it

[tanless1]

Now your just fishing, petro is only a combination of carbon and hydrogen to varied degrees.......where does the fossil come into the chain .... at what point is it attached

[tanless1]

photosynthesis
Thank you disney for participating.....I was thinking HEAT

[booster11373]

Now your just fishing, petro is only a combination of carbon and hydrogen to varied degrees.......where does the fossil come into the chain .... at what point is it attached

So you are unwilling to state your beliefs on why you believe that oil in not a fossil fuel is that correct?

[tanless1]

It is much easier to break an O bond than a carbon bond......so where does thr fossile come into play ?

[tanless1]

So far you've added nothing to the conversation......that simple to do. You get back to me ,as you must be very smart.

[booster11373]

You have the opportunity to enlighten us all by sharing your beliefs maybe even convert someone

[tanless1]

...I've given you the componets yet you are unable to indicate at which point the fossil is connected, it seems to me that you have nothing to add

[booster11373]

...I've given you the componets yet you are unable to indicate at which point the fossil is connected, it seems to me that you have nothing to add

You must be the most brilliant person on the planet why are you wasting your time in Idaho?

Get on a plane to Stockholm right now! I see a Nobel prize in your future

but you still manage to avoid answering why you believe oil is not a fossil fuel or explain what you think oil is or where it comes from

[Serpico1103]

Oil is formed mostly from the preserved remains of prehistoric zooplankton and algae which have been settled to the sea bottom in large quantities under anoxic conditions.
(Terrestrial plants tend to form coal, and very few dinosaurs have been converted into oil.)

Fossil fuel is just a catchy name.
But it is organic material.
The minority theory is Abiogenic theory. DOesn't involve living material. It is not accepted by any oil company.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_does_oil_form

Or should facts be left out of this?

[booster11373]

Oil is formed mostly from the preserved remains of prehistoric zooplankton and algae which have been settled to the sea bottom in large quantities under anoxic conditions.
(Terrestrial plants tend to form coal, and very few dinosaurs have been converted into oil.)

Fossil fuel is just a catchy name.
But it is organic material.
The minority theory is Abiogenic theory. DOesn't involve living material. It is not accepted by any oil company.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_does_oil_form

Or should facts be left out of this?

Sure bring fancy facts and lerning into this but tell us what you believe!

[tanless1]

Tell me where I'm wrong, indicate to me on the chain where fossil plant/body is connected and consider another way to make that bond......I never said I was smart.
Just a think'n our core is pretty hot , potental high.....I think we are missing somthing. Again, capped wells refill, we have oil sepage w/ no drilling......what causes that ? Methane would build to a point and stop w/ limited plant decomp....so how is crude motivated to the top ?

Willing to hear your thoughts

[tanless1]

Thanx serp, booster was no help

[tanless1]

....my phone is red, ill come back seeing as serpico is participating

[booster11373]

Thanx serp, booster was no help

So which one of those do you believe?

[disneyspy]

this discussion is silly,everyone knows petrol comes from gas pumps

[StanUpshaw]

Highest methane concentrations in the Arctic in 400,000 years

http://www.uaf.edu/news/news/20100303192545.html

[Bob Impact]

Highest methane concentrations in the Arctic in 400,000 years

http://www.uaf.edu/news/news/20100303192545.html

They should move some of the cows out of there.

[Recyclerz]

They should move some of the cows out of there.

It might also be ChriS Tanley and his scotch and Hot Pockets diet.

[tanless1]

The point is what we think we know may not be the only posibillity. Keep looking.

[tanless1]

...who benifits by peak oil therory ? How does acceptance of this therory effect price ? What happens if this therory is Proven false ? How would this effect gov't and would it be more difficult to control a people if energy was suddenly inexpensive? How does blocking access to available recourses effect the power/control dynamic ? .... and who benifits ?

[Syd]

...who benifits by peak oil therory ? How does acceptance of this therory effect price ? What happens if this therory is Proven false ? How would this effect gov't and would it be more difficult to control a people if energy was suddenly inexpensive? How does blocking access to available recourses effect the power/control dynamic ? .... and who benifits ?

Peak oil isn't a theory, it's a fact. Oil has peaked production in the US, and will peak elsewhere.

Acceptance of this theory already includes what is happening with the price of oil: it continually goes up as reserves continually dwindle.

If the theory is proven false, we'll have to take another look at our understanding of basic physics and mathematics.

It will affect government by causing energy shortages and rationing. It will be more difficult to control people if energy was suddenly inexpensive as there would be massive deflation as energy no longer was a driving cost of inflation.

Blocking access to available alternatives (I assume that is what you mean) ensures higher profits by a higher product cost. Who benefits? Anyone on an oil producer board or anyone who makes more money from their investments in oil to offset the increased cost of energy.

[booster11373]

...who benifits by peak oil therory ? How does acceptance of this therory effect price ? What happens if this therory is Proven false ? How would this effect gov't and would it be more difficult to control a people if energy was suddenly inexpensive? How does blocking access to available recourses effect the power/control dynamic ? .... and who benifits ?

Name a natural resource that is limitless

[Serpico1103]

Name a natural resource that is limitless
Fetus blood?

[booster11373]

Fetus blood?

sure you can drink it for eternal youth but can you run a car on it?

[epo]

Fetus blood?

I love vodka & fetus blood. Fucking delicious!

[StanUpshaw]

Name a natural resource that is limitless

Obviously nothing is literally limitless, but in practical terms, the trace uranium in seawater is damn close, and will likely be a primary source of energy in the future.

[hanso]

Name a natural resource that is limitless

Sunlight, Wind and water currents.

[booster11373]

Sunlight, Wind and water currents.

Those are considered renewable sources of energy but not really natural resources in the way that I meant the question

[hanso]

Highest methane concentrations in the Arctic in 400,000 years

http://www.uaf.edu/news/news/20100303192545.html

Better than the Antarctic where the ozone hole is.

[jckkeith]

Despite what we might sometimes think, people on this forum usually try to argue from a position of knowledge. That is pretty hard to do with the global warming debate. The complexity of the issue, combined with the stakes involved, make it easy and profitable for those with an agenda to make fraudulent, but apparently sound arguments. I reduced to looking at the arguments, discarding those with ulterior motives, and then seeing who has more experts on their side. I can't really make good arguments myself.

[tanless1]

Peak oil is false, they use the therory to make some feel smart when they argue shortage....but there is no shortage. Not when you intentionaly lock recources like anware , colorado basin, california coast, gulf of mexico....
Don't drill at home as it would drop the price of energy considerably.
Do any of you use antipersperant/deodarent ? Soap ? Sodium OH isn't good for the enviroment......need oil to hold your deodarent nice and neat.
....the point is, we are getting buffalowd.
You can accept the lie, or possibly see beyond......I know I won't convince you, I would however like you to think beyond what you've been fed.

[booster11373]

Peak oil is false, they use the therory to make some feel smart when they argue shortage....but there is no shortage. Not when you intentionaly lock recources like anware , colorado basin, california coast, gulf of mexico....
Don't drill at home as it would drop the price of energy considerably.
Do any of you use antipersperant/deodarent ? Soap ? Sodium OH isn't good for the enviroment......need oil to hold your deodarent nice and neat.
....the point is, we are getting buffalowd.
You can accept the lie, or possibly see beyond......I know I won't convince you, I would however like you to think beyond what you've been fed.

So do you think that there is a limitless supply of oil under the ground?

[tanless1]

I know you are just looking to mock me, that allright. I suspect that it a result of an inneraction w/the earths core , and this would continue to produce.

I do not believe this should be our only energy source, or even our preferd.

The goverment is not serious about nuclear as can be deduced by their cesation of the yucca mountain project.
Wind power is only good if the wind is blowing.... they are unable to store that.

...and until they have an energy that is equitable to petrol, stop lying about the scarsity w/ one hand...and signing bills to make it scarce w/ the other.

[Syd]

Peak oil is false, they use the therory to make some feel smart when they argue shortage....but there is no shortage. Not when you intentionaly lock recources like anware , colorado basin, california coast, gulf of mexico....
Don't drill at home as it would drop the price of energy considerably.
Do any of you use antipersperant/deodarent ? Soap ? Sodium OH isn't good for the enviroment......need oil to hold your deodarent nice and neat.
....the point is, we are getting buffalowd.
You can accept the lie, or possibly see beyond......I know I won't convince you, I would however like you to think beyond what you've been fed.

Oil production has reached a plateau already. New finds might have potentially large yields, but the rate of extraction is low and the cost to bring it to market is extremely high. I work in a field that exposes me to a lot of geology and nothing I've seen makes it sound like oil is in anything but an ever-increasingly short supply. When people talk up fields in the Gulf of Mexico, they don't often bring up the fact that it is in fairly deep water as well as being fairly deep underground. Some of the drilling proposed exceeds the depths we've ever drilled in straight dirt -- we're talking about drilling now through ocean and down into the surface below. It'll be an expensive process no matter what.

No energy source lasts forever, period. Even the sun has a clock ticking on when we're going to run out of solar energy.

[Chigworthy]

Sunlight, Wind and water currents.

Sunlight has a definite limit. There is a maximum amount that can reach any given square inch during a given period. You cannot pull limitless solar energy from the air; it's kind of like a flow of water down a creek. Not to mention that a star has a lifespan.

[hanso]

Their are examples of folks and businesses that have gone off the grid by using solar power for homes. And a business on roosevelt island that powers its store by means of currents from the nearby river.

It can already be done by diy means. It can also be done on a grander scale imo.

[StanUpshaw]

Going off the grid is ridiculously impractical and it doesn't solve anything. It's another example of that "Green" posturing that Chig was talking about.

A lot of power companies offer a renewable option. Here in the midwest, Alliant (http://www.alliantenergy.com/Environmental/SecondNature/index.htm) lets you designate that either 25, 50 or 100% of your electricity is provided by renewable sources. You pay a premium on your bill, then that money is pooled and purchases more renewable capacity.

Unfortunately, this transaction is just between you and the power company, and you don't get a roof-full of solar panels to advertise to your neighbors about how green you are.

[Dude!]

you don't get a roof-full of solar panels to advertise to your neighbors about how green you are.

bingo...
that is what it is all about
for those people

[Jujubees2]

bingo...
that is what it is all about
for those people

Yeah, it would really suck if everyone had solar panels on their roofs so we didn't have to burn fossil fuels for energy.

[booster11373]

Yeah, it would really suck if everyone had solar panels on their roofs so we didn't have to burn fossil fuels for energy.

For some reason being innovative and concerned has become a negative to certain segment of the this country's population

[Syd]

For some reason being innovative and concerned has become a negative to certain segment of the this country's population

education and intelligence are bad, replaced with being "folksy" and "authentic"

[Serpico1103]

Do they make solar panels for ivory towers?

[booster11373]

education and intelligence are bad, replaced with being "folksy" and "authentic"

It was all ways my understanding that Americans in general had a bit of anti-intellectualism in them but I also thought that it was cyclic in nature.

[epo]

For some reason being innovative and concerned has become a negative to certain segment of the this country's population

Its so fucking depressing...

[Dude!]

please...
like you guys are 'intellectual'

not!
just easily led

[Snoogans]

please...
like you guys are 'intellectual'

not!
just easily led

do you walk around just sprayin aresol cans into the air?

[Dude!]

do you walk around just sprayin aresol cans into the air?

no, i spend my time looking for
patches of green in my yard
so i can say that proves
global warming

[hanso]

Going off the grid is ridiculously impractical and it doesn't solve anything. It's another example of that "Green" posturing that Chig was talking about.

A lot of power companies offer a renewable option. Here in the midwest, Alliant (http://www.alliantenergy.com/Environmental/SecondNature/index.htm) lets you designate that either 25, 50 or 100% of your electricity is provided by renewable sources. You pay a premium on your bill, then that money is pooled and purchases more renewable capacity.

Unfortunately, this transaction is just between you and the power company, and you don't get a roof-full of solar panels to advertise to your neighbors about how green you are.

You would really rather trust the power comany, and pay extra, then be self sufficient?

That plan sounds all well and good. But it my state it has already been found to be fraudulent.

And don't misinterpret off the grid. They still have meters. However they spin real slow if at all. Or even backwards. Where they can sell power back to the company.

[epo]

You would really rather trust the power comany, and pay extra, then be self sufficient?
That plan sounds all well and good. But it my state it has already been found to be fraudulent.

Which is one of the reasons that the mass de-regulation of the 80s is fucking killing us now. Reagan was a sham.

[hanso]

Which is one of the reasons that the mass de-regulation of the 80s is fucking killing us now. Reagan was a sham.

Don't forget Enron & the 90 election of Bush.

[StanUpshaw]

You would really rather trust the power comany, and pay extra, then be self sufficient?
That plan sounds all well and good. But it my state it has already been found to be fraudulent.

Pay extra? You couldn't be more wrong.

Residential solar cost (http://www.solarbuzz.com/SolarIndices.htm) figures out to 34.88 cents/kWh in sunny climates and 76.73 cents/kWh in cloudy climates. Grid power (http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/electricity/epm/table5_6_a.html) averages 11.33 cents/kWh in the US. Alliant's surcharge (http://www.alliantenergy.com/Environmental/SecondNature/015496) for 100% renewable power is TWO CENTS per kWh.

As far as trust...all I have to do is drive down the highways and see new wind farms popping up every year. If that isn't enough, I also can rely on a third party's (http://www.green-e.org/base/profile?id=76) certification.

Of course, it could all be a BIG OIL conspiracy, and those windmills are really made of balsa wood.


And don't misinterpret off the grid. They still have meters. However they spin real slow if at all. Or even backwards. Where they can sell power back to the company.

Then that's not "off the grid," dummy.

Off the grid means a garage full of batteries and diesel generators for backup.

[vjr97]

its our current orbit around the sun thats causing the northern ice caps to melt.90% of the worlds ice is n anartica and it not melting at all WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OO

[underdog]

its our current orbit around the sun thats causing the northern ice caps to melt.90% of the worlds ice is n anartica and it not melting at all WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OO

It's like reading a science book.

[disneyspy]

It's like reading a science book.

i really think theres more than .90% of the worlds ice is down there so dont believe him

[disneyspy]

we should relocate the starving polar bears and over abundant deer herd in the US to the south pole

[underdog]

i really think theres more than .90% of the worlds ice is down there so dont believe him

I'm not even sure where anartica is.

[hanso]

I'm not even sure where anartica is.

Why is colder than the arctic? It is the south pole after all.

[disneyspy]

Why is colder than the arctic? It is the south pole after all.

chile down there

[SonOfSmeagol]

Why is colder than the arctic? It is the south pole after all.

Heat rises

[hanso]

Pay extra? You couldn't be more wrong.

Residential solar cost (http://www.solarbuzz.com/SolarIndices.htm) figures out to 34.88 cents/kWh in sunny climates and 76.73 cents/kWh in cloudy climates. Grid power (http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/electricity/epm/table5_6_a.html) averages 11.33 cents/kWh in the US. Alliant's surcharge (http://www.alliantenergy.com/Environmental/SecondNature/015496) for 100% renewable power is TWO CENTS per kWh.

As far as trust...all I have to do is drive down the highways and see new wind farms popping up every year. If that isn't enough, I also can rely on a third party's (http://www.green-e.org/base/profile?id=76) certification.

Of course, it could all be a BIG OIL conspiracy, and those windmills are really made of balsa wood.



Then that's not "off the grid," dummy.

Off the grid means a garage full of batteries and diesel generators for backup.

"You pay a premium on your bill" sounds like extra. The same plan is more here. You go ahead and trust that the money is going to efforts that will cut out the power company in the long run. {insert name calling here}
I bet that money is not going anywhere near it.
And get caught up on terminology where your at it

[vjr97]

we should relocate the starving polar bears and over abundant deer herd in the US to the south pole

bears eat people.FUCK them!!! muahahahahahaha .................polar bears are brown bears and they'll easily adapt to upper canada that will still be frozen(eating those dear deers of yours along the way) there not going to forget how to swim any time soon.im sure they walk there way across b4 scientist or blow hards like u know know whats going on

[Chigworthy]

The possible problem with solar panels is that the ratio of roof space to energy use in metropolitan areas is pretty poor. Another thing to consider is that every square inch of solar panel on the planet is a square inch that cannot be utilized for photosynthesis.

[StanUpshaw]

"You pay a premium on your bill" sounds like extra. The same plan is more here. You go ahead and trust that the money is going to efforts that will cut out the power company in the long run. {insert name calling here}
I bet that money is not going anywhere near it.
And get caught up on terminology where your at it

You're not making any sense. The power company owns the wind farms...how exactly would they get "cut out"?

[hanso]

The local power companies don't build wind farms. or even solar for that matter. Nukes is about it.

http://fastflip.googlelabs.com/search?client=news&um=1&q=power+company+building+wind+farms

[disneyspy]

bears eat people.FUCK them!!! muahahahahahaha .................polar bears are brown bears and they'll easily adapt to upper canada that will still be frozen(eating those dear deers of yours along the way) there not going to forget how to swim any time soon.im sure they walk there way across b4 scientist or blow hards like u know know whats going on

you calling me a blowhard? well im calling you a chimney sweep

[hanso]

You're not making any sense. The power company owns the wind farms...how exactly would they get "cut out"?

I thought the same. I have never heard of this before. Do you have a url?

[StanUpshaw]

I thought the same. I have never heard of this before. Do you have a url?

http://www.alliantenergy.com/Environmental/RenewableAlternativeEnergy/014405

It looks like half of their capacity they own, and half they purchase from independent operations.

[Serpico1103]

It's like reading a science book.

The ones that teach creationism and that dinosaur bones were put there to test our faith.

[hanso]

I should have put state power and light's. There is that terminology getting in the way again. Most state power and lights run a monopoly.

[StanUpshaw]

God bless the free market. http://fi.somethingawful.com/images/smilies/emot-911.gif

[epo]

God bless the free market. http://fi.somethingawful.com/images/smilies/emot-911.gif

Free market = Good.

Free market w/out regulations = Very bad.

[hanso]

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/QLNViUsRCVU&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/QLNViUsRCVU&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>


Your market should be a model. It still is diy for the most part.

[Chigworthy]

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/QLNViUsRCVU&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/QLNViUsRCVU&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>


Your market should be a model. It still is diy for the most part.

Why would you need a "furnace" that only works on warm sunny days? What a waste of resources.

[hanso]

Why would you need a "furnace" that only works on warm sunny days? What a waste of resources.

He got wasted from his resources. Its made of his empty beer cans.

[tanless1]

This is worth looking at.
Sweetwaterrec.com

[StanUpshaw]

This is worth looking at.
Sweetwaterrec.com

:confused::confused::confused:

What does this have to do with anything?

[underdog]

:confused::confused::confused:

What does this have to do with anything?

That could be the response to any number of his posts.

[tanless1]

Now that's just hurtful underdog. It has been mentioned earlier in this thread the problem of available fresh water. Here is available technology. It is just a sample of technology coming from the common man, not govt....of course mojo was participating in the conversation back then

[tanless1]

Granted, the video presentation needs work.

[StanUpshaw]

Now that's just hurtful underdog. It has been mentioned earlier in this thread the problem of available fresh water. Here is available technology. It is just a sample of technology coming from the common man, not govt....of course mojo was participating in the conversation back then

He should get together with the water fueled car guy...together they'd be unstoppable.




Is your name Mark, by any chance?

[tanless1]

No, it is not mark.

Or did you mean mark, as in rube ?

[StanUpshaw]

Yes, mark as in rube.

[tanless1]

.

[tanless1]

What makes you call bull shit ?

[StanUpshaw]

Because you simply believe the claims of some crank on the internet without any evidence whatsoever.

Where are the purity tests?
Where are measurements of power consumption?
Where is the cost comparison between this gizmo and established methods?

Proof, god dammit!

[tanless1]

Ok, you got me there.

[tanless1]

.....except I know the people involved w/the product. One is writing code up at the nuclear facility. I've worked w/ the other 2 for the past 8 years.

[booster11373]

Because you simply believe the claims of some crank on the internet without any evidence whatsoever.

Where are the purity tests?
Where are measurements of power consumption?
Where is the cost comparison between this gizmo and established methods?

Proof, god dammit!

But he BELIEVES it works, thats seems guod enough

[tanless1]

....how about this? If your interested, contact them for purity reports.

[tanless1]

...and you BELIEVE in man made global warming

[StanUpshaw]

.....except I know the people involved w/the product. One is writing code up at the nuclear facility. I've worked w/ the other 2 for the past 8 years.

I'm sure they're smart guys. But vouching for them is not proof of anything. It still requires evidence.

....how about this? If your interested, contact them for purity reports.

Why not just post them on their website? What do they have to hide?

[booster11373]

...and you BELIEVE in man made global warming

:wallbash:

[tanless1]

Evedince is available. I've been keeping my mouth shut on this project for over 5 years.

[tanless1]

If you noticed, the website is still mostly under construction. Send him a message and indicate what you'd like to see.

[tanless1]

...the point of this, beyond the technology, is that it is the citizen that comes up w/the idea, the inovation. Not pouring our money into the bottomless pit and empty promises of goverment .

[tanless1]

Gotta get to bed, you can beat me up later.

[StanUpshaw]

If you noticed, the website is still mostly under construction. Send him a message and indicate what you'd like to see.

I'm no engineer or microbiologist; emailing me the data won't do any good. Why not just publish it on his website so qualified people can evaluate it?

[booster11373]

...the point of this, beyond the technology, is that it is the citizen that comes up w/the idea, the inovation. Not pouring our money into the bottomless pit and empty promises of goverment .

Do you think we would have got to the moon with thinking like this?

[StanUpshaw]

Or better yet, go on national television like this guy:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/FHL6L9i2AWA&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/FHL6L9i2AWA&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[StanUpshaw]

Could you also ask your friend to explain how the machine knows to kill all the bacteria and pathogens in the water, but does not harm the algae that ended up growing in some of his sample jars?

[tanless1]

Ask him yourself, but as a favor to me.....ask like a human being instead as the snarky shits you often come across as here.

[tanless1]

...hell, I sent my kettle korn to a lab so I could get the nutritiuonal data. I believe he's done the same......like I said, I've been mum for years as I did not want to monkey up the patent process, so I'm not up to date.

[tanless1]

I just saw the videos for the first time tonight,

[tanless1]

Could you also ask your friend to explain how the machine knows to kill all the bacteria and pathogens in the water, but does not harm the algae that ended up growing in some of his sample jars?

You know that an electrical field can be used to drop a molecule from suspension....I apologize for poor terminology, my books have been packed 17 years...ugh. I want to get planted and play

[tanless1]

....they tried to get this online intime for katrina, just wasn't close enough.

[Chigworthy]

Where do I sign up? I'd like to invest $50,000.

[hanso]

Remember there is no extreme weather. Enjoy your sprinkles New England. Plant a victory garden.

[tanless1]

What happend 100 years ago to cause similiar water levels ?.... maybe it was the alaskan methane beds then too.

2 solutions are available. 1) encourage the thining of the ozone (hole) so the naturaly occuring "greenhouse gas" can vent into the vaccum of space.
......or
2) use it.

[StanUpshaw]

What happend 100 years ago to cause similiar water levels ?.... maybe it was the alaskan methane beds then too.

2 solutions are available. 1) encourage the thining of the ozone (hole) so the naturaly occuring "greenhouse gas" can vent into the vaccum of space.
......or
2) use it.

Did snoogans dose me, or is this just the most insane post ever written?

We can use the hole in the ozone layer to vent greenhouse gasses into space? Are you honestly that stupid?

[tanless1]

Are you. Honestly that dim to believe that the person who's explained a process to you, is unquestionably correct.

...is space not a vaccum ?
...has the warming and cooling not been happening for millinia ?
...was not canada once coverd in ice ?
....will canada not be coverd in ice again ?

Think outside the box, not one that's been drawn for you by those who stand to garner more power and more wealth at your expence.

Id insert an insult at this point, but I won't , as that would do nothing to further the conversation.

.... did the tiger not attack because of the rock in your pocket, or because there was no tiger ?

[tanless1]

.....and perhaps you should consider the naturaly occouring methane beds..... and not the other issues if ( apologies, this text replaces another insult) .....

[StanUpshaw]

I'd answer you, but I honestly have no idea what the fuck you're saying. String together a coherent sentence, and then I will proceed to show you where you're wrong. All I've been able to gather so far is that you think the earth's atmosphere is like a balloon, and if we poke a hole in it, all the air inside will rush out.



...you fucking imbecile

[tanless1]

If that's all you've gatherd, then you are wasting my time. Faking a lack of comprehension to dodge what is clearly written.....that is imbecilic.
Perhaps you should try reading again.....its ok, I'll wait. Try a sentence at a time.....and then address it. This is not an emotional rant about some trucker cutting me off....so pop another zoloft and give it another shot, tiger. I believe in you(a little) you can do it.

[hanso]

<embed src="http://www.disclose.tv/embedPlayer.php?vid=9678fa54dc9751a0633fe2584" flashvars="config=http://www.disclose.tv/videoConfigXmlCode.php?pg=video_42404_no_0_extsite" quality="high" bgcolor="#000000" width="425" height="355" name="flvplayer" align="middle" allowscriptaccess="always" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" pluginspage="http://www.macromedia.com/go/getflashplayer" allowfullscreen="true"><br><a href="http://www.disclose.tv">Disclose.tv</a> <a href="http://www.disclose.tv/action/viewvideo/42404/Wave_power/">Wave power Video</a>

<embed src="http://www.disclose.tv/embedPlayer.php?vid=8c8566b78ac2b99c542bef8c3" flashvars="config=http://www.disclose.tv/videoConfigXmlCode.php?pg=video_10814_no_0_extsite" quality="high" bgcolor="#000000" width="425" height="355" name="flvplayer" align="middle" allowscriptaccess="always" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" pluginspage="http://www.macromedia.com/go/getflashplayer" allowfullscreen="true"><br><a href="http://www.disclose.tv">Disclose.tv</a> <a href="http://www.disclose.tv/action/viewvideo/10814/Giant_rubber_snake_could_be_the_future__power/">Giant rubber snake could be the future power Video</a>

[hanso]

When Noubar Afeyan, the CEO of Flagship Ventures in Cambridge, MA, set out to invent the ideal renewable fuel, he decided to eliminate the middleman. Biofuels ultimately come from carbon dioxide and water, so why persist in making them from biomass--corn or switchgrass or algae? "What we wanted to know," Afeyan says, "is could we engineer a system that could convert carbon dioxide directly into any fuel that we wanted?"

TR10: Solar Fuel Designing The Perfect Renewable Fuel

http://www.technologyreview.com/energy/25077/?a=f

[tanless1]

Solar fuel is nice, but the storage source is batterys...same for wind. also requires one to wire there house twice as an inverter eats power in the conversion.
I've said it before all solutions on the table, but they aren't. One can use a solar to process the corn....on the home scale( I'm all for that also) global warming is not an issue, its the politics behind the hysteria that will consume us.

[tanless1]

....scanned the article. Just wait till these fuckers get loose and mutate, they thought R-11 was bad.
....appreciate it hanso(that is not intended as sarcasm)

[Syd]

Solar fuel is nice, but the storage source is batterys...same for wind. also requires one to wire there house twice as an inverter eats power in the conversion.
I've said it before all solutions on the table, but they aren't. One can use a solar to process the corn....on the home scale( I'm all for that also) global warming is not an issue, its the politics behind the hysteria that will consume us.

Until someone can obfuscate the differences between a battery and a capacitor, renewable/green energy won't be useful at any household.

I agree with your second point though. I could care less about convincing people one way or the other about global warming. However, having us all conserve energy and use renewable sources means energy prices in the future won't bite us as hard.

[Jujubees2]

Drill, baby, drill....

Gulf oil spill: Slick caused by exploding Louisiana oil rig may drift to U.S. shore (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2010/04/27/2010-04-27_oil_slick_caused_by_exploding_louisiana_oil_rig _may_drift_to_us_shore.html)

[Dude!]

Drill, baby, drill....

Gulf oil spill: Slick caused by exploding Louisiana oil rig may drift to U.S. shore (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2010/04/27/2010-04-27_oil_slick_caused_by_exploding_louisiana_oil_rig _may_drift_to_us_shore.html)

you don't think it odd
that obama says we'll drill
and then 2 weeks later
this happens?

it was obviously not
'an accident'
it was a planned disaster
to discredit drilling

the question is:
did obama have a part
in the planning?

[Serpico1103]

you don't think it odd
that obama says we'll drill
and then 2 weeks later
this happens?

it was obviously not
'an accident'
it was a planned disaster
to discredit drilling

the question is:
did obama have a part
in the planning?
LordDude!?

[underdog]

you don't think it odd
that obama says we'll drill
and then 2 weeks later
this happens?

it was obviously not
'an accident'
it was a planned disaster
to discredit drilling

the question is:
did obama have a part
in the planning?

Do you post from a cell phone?

[hanso]

Drill, baby, drill....

Gulf oil spill: Slick caused by exploding Louisiana oil rig may drift to U.S. shore (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2010/04/27/2010-04-27_oil_slick_caused_by_exploding_louisiana_oil_rig _may_drift_to_us_shore.html)

How about the timing of that? scheech.

you don't think it odd
that obama says we'll drill
and then 2 weeks later
this happens?

it was obviously not
'an accident'
it was a planned disaster
to discredit drilling

the question is:
did obama have a part
in the planning?

If it was there would have been fewer or no deaths. And it would have happened when the sea was more calm. So it could have been capped.

[Jujubees2]

How about the timing of that? scheech.



If it was there would have been fewer or no deaths. And it would have happened when the sea was more calm. So it could have been capped.

Don't rain on Dude's! conspiracy theories.

[tanless1]

Its not just dude's . Elf has a history of this, weather underground as well.

.....was there a reniscanse fair in the area ?

[Serpico1103]

Its not just dude's . Elf has a history of this, weather underground as well.

.....was there a reniscanse fair in the area ?

Sirisly?

[Bob Impact]

Until someone can obfuscate the differences between a battery and a capacitor, renewable/green energy won't be useful at any household.

^ This, exactly this.

[hanso]

Titty earthquake day in Indonesia. Now that was planned.

[tanless1]

50/50 siris

[epo]

Newspapers Retract 'Climategate' Claims, but Damage Still Done (http://www.newsweek.com/blogs/the-gaggle/2010/06/25/newspapers-retract-climategate-claims-but-damage-still-done.html)

A lie can get halfway around the world while the truth is still putting its boots on, as Mark Twain said (or “before the truth gets a chance to put its pants on,” in Winston Churchill’s version), and nowhere has that been more true than in "climategate." In that highly orchestrated, manufactured scandal, e-mails hacked from computers at the University of East Anglia’s climate-research group were spread around the Web by activists who deny that human activity is altering the world’s climate in a dangerous way, and spun so as to suggest that the scientists had been lying, cheating, and generally cooking the books.

Long story made short = Global warming science is real and those who started the "scientific debate" against it are lying fucks.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

More collusion from the alarmists to funnel money for another global welfare program.

Cancun? Give me a break. Why cant they have their conventions in St Louis or Detroit?


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101210/ap_on_sc/climate#mwpphu-container

[epo]

More collusion from the alarmists to funnel money for another global welfare program.

Cancun? Give me a break. Why cant they have their conventions in St Louis or Detroit?


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101210/ap_on_sc/climate#mwpphu-container

That has nothing to do with the fact that industrial lobbying is blocking real reform to stop man made causes of Global Warming.

[Snacks]

More collusion from the alarmists to funnel money for another global welfare program.

Cancun? Give me a break. Why cant they have their conventions in St Louis or Detroit?


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101210/ap_on_sc/climate#mwpphu-container

No matter what you want to call them, everyone has to agree that we need to make changes to try and slow down global warming if at all possible? Even if they are wrong about global warming what harm could it do to make changes? We have more to lose by doing nothing!

[spoon]

No matter what you want to call them, everyone has to agree that we need to make changes to try and slow down global warming if at all possible? Even if they are wrong about global warming what harm could it do to make changes? We have more to lose by doing nothing!

No no, let's pollute more bc that in itself is good right? :wallbash:

I guess they really think this is another entitlement program?!?! I just don't see it at all but why question something that seems to be working on the average rube in this shithole we call home at this point. Fuck logic and reason, let's just do what we want!

http://creepandpeep.net/gallery/d/19962-1/cartman1xt3.jpg

[StanUpshaw]

No matter what you want to call them, everyone has to agree that we need to make changes to try and slow down global warming if at all possible? Even if they are wrong about global warming what harm could it do to make changes? We have more to lose by doing nothing!

It all depends on who "we" means.

As long as the entire planet is playing by the same rules, then yeah, we can afford to err on the side of caution.

[spoon]

It all depends on who "we" means.

As long as the entire planet is playing by the same rules, then yeah, we can afford to err on the side of caution.

We all know that's all but impossible, but does that mean we should role back our minimum wage and working age limits bc other countries don't operate with the same rules?

I get your point, but sometimes you need to lead the way for things that are right.

[epo]

We all know that's all but impossible, but does that mean we should role back our minimum wage and working age limits bc other countries don't operate with the same rules?

I get your point, but sometimes you need to lead the way for things that are right.

We really shit the bed on this one when we had the chance. By not ratifying the Kyoto Protocol, we pretty much gave the underdeveloped world the green flag to ignore environmental standards in their developmental efforts.

So as China developed by polluting, Africa will do the same fucking thing. And by not taking the lead and putting pressure on these global regions to comply, we hurt our competitiveness in the global market place.

[StanUpshaw]

We all know that's all but impossible, but does that mean we should role back our minimum wage and working age limits bc other countries don't operate with the same rules?

I get your point, but sometimes you need to lead the way for things that are right.

Fortunately our economy has evolved to a point where that's not an issue here, but if we were a country who was in competition for that type of work, then yes! Outlawing your citizens from earning whatever meager income they can would be horribly cruel.

When it comes to carbon, the losses from any legal restrictions you apply would be offset to a degree by the gains you'd see from alt energy growth, but it's impossible to get around the fact that increasing energy costs impacts literally every transaction we make, and as a result, it necessarily decreases our competitiveness.

[Syd]

Fossil fuel energy will continually increase in price while renewable energy will increase in price, but not at nearly the same rate as fossil fuel energy. Eventually renewable energy will become far cheaper since, we'll like, not run out of solar energy or tidal energy or geothermal or hydroelectric energy for longer than the useful lifetime of the human race.

It's about the long term of humanity versus the short term profits of corporations.

[StanUpshaw]

Fossil fuel energy will continually increase in price while renewable energy will increase in price, but not at nearly the same rate as fossil fuel energy. Eventually renewable energy will become far cheaper since, we'll like, not run out of solar energy or tidal energy or geothermal or hydroelectric energy for longer than the useful lifetime of the human race.

It's about the long term of humanity versus the short term profits of corporations.

The first sentence started off correct, but they got progressively more wrong until the last one, deserving of this guy:http://i.imgur.com/XKQxW.gif

You're not doing the cause any good with the ridiculous doomsaying.

[Syd]

ah yeah I forgot how all resources are unlimited even though billions are competing for them

[A.J.]

So as China developed by polluting, Africa will do the same fucking thing.

"Don't forget India!"

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_xaddn0XbbnM/SktynBbCBzI/AAAAAAAAAq4/YprLznJtXQ4/s320/kerry-bush-debate.jpg

[Snoogans]

ah yeah I forgot how all resources are unlimited even though billions are competing for them

we will just make more fossil fuel with the bodies of the dead. more people and animals means more dead, more oil. BAM

[WRESTLINGFAN]

This has got to be one of the dumbest women on the planet. While her state was being overrun with illegal aliens as Gov., this bloated hack worries about the weather.

No wonder why so many people think DHS needs to be eliminated.

http://discussions.agweb.com/showthread.php?11111-Man-made-global-warming-now-part-of-home-land-security.&p=147542#post147542

[Snacks]

This has got to be one of the dumbest women on the planet. While her state was being overrun with illegal aliens as Gov., this bloated hack worries about the weather.

No wonder why so many people think DHS needs to be eliminated.

http://discussions.agweb.com/showthread.php?11111-Man-made-global-warming-now-part-of-home-land-security.&p=147542#post147542

Whats worse the planet earth breaking down or The USA having too many illegals? I am anti illegals but I think the entire planet is more important and has more of an effect on society and everyone then the illegals in the USA. Why cant we go after both problems?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Whats worse the planet earth breaking down or The USA having too many illegals? I am anti illegals but I think the entire planet is more important and has more of an effect on society and everyone then the illegals in the USA. Why cant we go after both problems?

Man made global warming is not proven science. If we are going to have a DHS (I think its a waste of money) in any case shouldn't it focus on problems like illegal immigration and terrorism etc?

[spoon]

Man made global warming is not proven science. If we are going to have a DHS (I think its a waste of money) in any case shouldn't it focus on problems like illegal immigration and terrorism etc?

:wallbash:

[dameon666]

If the govt. wants to minimize a behavior, tax it. I'm ok w/ that, but they need to keep it simple and transparent. Gas tax, OK. Coal tax, OK. Electricity tax, OK. BUT, leave it to me to decided what type of car I want to use and how much I want to spend to insulate my house. Seriously, what good does it do to have a super efficient house if you have to leave the front door open just to get some fresh air? ...and if I get a hundred mi/gal, if gas is cheap I won't worry about saving/combining trips, I'll just drive more. Only price affects true energy usage, and it doesn't require 15,000+ pages of legislation to set the prices of energy appropriately for purposes of energy conservation.

The legislation these guys keep passing takes away our free will, our options, our choices of how to live. They constantly make it harder to start a business or get ahead. They build the taxes in so deep that no one knows how much they are really paying in. We are like servants in the world they are creating.

[underdog]

If the govt. wants to minimize a behavior, tax it. I'm ok w/ that, but they need to keep it simple and transparent. Gas tax, OK. Coal tax, OK. Electricity tax, OK. BUT, leave it to me to decided what type of car I want to use and how much I want to spend to insulate my house. Seriously, what good does it do to have a super efficient house if you have to leave the front door open just to get some fresh air? ...and if I get a hundred mi/gal, if gas is cheap I won't worry about saving/combining trips, I'll just drive more. Only price affects true energy usage, and it doesn't require 15,000+ pages of legislation to set the prices of energy appropriately for purposes of energy conservation.

The legislation these guys keep passing takes away our free will, our options, our choices of how to live. They constantly make it harder to start a business or get ahead. They build the taxes in so deep that no one knows how much they are really paying in. We are like servants in the world they are creating.

I don't think your sig pic is large enough.

[epo]

Man made global warming is not proven science. If we are going to have a DHS (I think its a waste of money) in any case shouldn't it focus on problems like illegal immigration and terrorism etc?

You're an idiot.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

You're an idiot.

Janet Napolitano Big sis. Save us from a Cadillac Escalade

[spoon]

You're an idiot.

It's literally the same shit I hear on WABC radio when I do a radio check on Hannity, Rush or Mark Levin. Parrot boy is worse than an idiot, he doesn't think for himself.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

It's literally the same shit I hear on WABC radio when I do a radio check on Hannity, Rush or Mark Levin. Parrot boy is worse than an idiot, he doesn't think for himself.

I dont fall lockstep with the alarmists. I dont practice the religious cult of man made global warming or is it climate change, you sky is falling fanatics seem to change the word du jour.


When you bow to the politicians who want to regulate lightbulbs and everything else youre a pathetic hapless lemming who can not think for yourself.


Worry about yourself and what car you drive.

The amount of faith you have in Big sis Napolitano and other political hacks is laughable yet insane at the same time

[spoon]

I dont fall lockstep with the alarmists. I dont practice the religious cult of man made global warming or is it climate change, you sky is falling fanatics seem to change the word du jour.


When you bow to the politicians who want to regulate lightbulbs and everything else youre a pathetic hapless lemming who can not think for yourself.


Worry about yourself and what car you drive.

The amount of faith you have in Big sis Napolitano and other political hacks is laughable yet insane at the same time

I've yet to see ONE person even mention Napolitano in any way outside of you. Most here just think it isn't a bad idea to clean things up for pure sensible reasons versus the pollution and destruction we've seen in past generations. Sometimes advancement needs a little push here and there, as in MPG ratings and cleaner running fuel/equipment standards. Sure it'll cost some money at the start, but the INVESTMENTS have many compounding positives moving forward, especially alt energy sources if ever made viable. Come on man, do you really believe we're Napolitano lovers!? REALLY?! Now you're just being an idiot on purpose bc again, the shows I hear daily rip into her. She's their target and all the canned one liners and lingo they use across all right wing media outlets are almost, if not completely, IDENTICAL.

[foodcourtdruide]

I've yet to see ONE person even mention Napolitano in any way outside of you. Most here just think it isn't a bad idea to clean things up for pure sensible reasons versus the pollution and destruction we've seen in past generations. Sometimes advancement needs a little push here and there, as in MPG ratings and cleaner running fuel/equipment standards. Sure it'll cost some money at the start, but the INVESTMENTS have many compounding positives moving forward, especially alt energy sources if ever made viable. Come on man, do you really believe we're Napolitano lovers!? REALLY?! Now you're just being an idiot on purpose bc again, the shows I hear daily rip into her. She's their target and all the canned one liners and lingo they use across all right wing media outlets are almost, if not completely, IDENTICAL.

Can you please stop worshipping Napolitano?

Lol. He brings her name up sometimes in the immigration thread and I'm always like, "huh?" I guess she's this weeks right-wing media target.

[spoon]

Can you please stop worshipping Napolitano?

Lol. He brings her name up sometimes in the immigration thread and I'm always like, "huh?" I guess she's this weeks right-wing media target.

It does make me hungry for Neapolitan ice cream too! That fucker!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I've yet to see ONE person even mention Napolitano in any way outside of you. Most here just think it isn't a bad idea to clean things up for pure sensible reasons versus the pollution and destruction we've seen in past generations. Sometimes advancement needs a little push here and there, as in MPG ratings and cleaner running fuel/equipment standards. Sure it'll cost some money at the start, but the INVESTMENTS have many compounding positives moving forward, especially alt energy sources if ever made viable. Come on man, do you really believe we're Napolitano lovers!? REALLY?! Now you're just being an idiot on purpose bc again, the shows I hear daily rip into her. She's their target and all the canned one liners and lingo they use across all right wing media outlets are almost, if not completely, IDENTICAL.

What You fucking progressives call Investments are nothing but a power grab. A couple of weeks ago a bunch of scientists in Cancun with questionable backgrounds wanted the UN to take our money and piss it away to some 3rd world shitholes. Like the money would really go to good use.

Why should the government dictate MPG standards? IF THERES A DEMAND FOR IT, THEN THE MARKET WILL DEEM SO!!!!!!

Are you defending what big sis is saying? Do you feel threatened by climate? Napolitano is a fucking incompetent hack. A thousand times worse than Chertoff and Ridge combined.


You people always say that you dont want to be dictated to on what god to believe and spout out against religion. I agree with that but you are fucking hypocrites when people challenge the theory of man made climate change/global warming. Live your life the way you want to and quit telling the rest of us on how we should.

[spoon]

You sound like a man going crazy and all worried the government is going to take you land, job and dog.

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[WRESTLINGFAN]

Because a Green economy was such a success en Espana


http://westinstenv.org/sosf/2010/12/19/the-wind-power-fraud-and-ripoff/

[StanUpshaw]

So how about that ethanol...am I right fellas? :thumbup:

[epo]

So how about that ethanol...am I right fellas? :thumbup:

I don't mind criticism of ethanol at all. I do mind a lack of thought that we need an alternative to fossil fuels.

[StanUpshaw]

And I don't mind a discussion of alternative energy sources...as long as people can demonstrate they understand just how enormous our energy demands are, how minute the the current contributions of alternative energy are, and the hard realities of what it would take to increase that percentage.

[Dudeman]

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[Syd]

So how about that ethanol...am I right fellas? :thumbup:

The problem with ethanol is lack of proper infrastructure to move it and the high cost of converting corn to usable gas. As pipelines start coming online as well as cellulosic ethanol plants, the cost will be reduced and the water requirements will plummet as well. What was once waste product (corn stalks, for example) will become usable energy. Cellulosic is the key when we're able to convert biomass into fuel. Other fuels such as biobutanol will allow for a fuel that retains a similar energy content as gasoline/diesel as well.

It's a work in progress and nothing will ever cost the same or have the same qualities as gas. Since we're now on the downward slope of crude oil recovery it's not like everyone can just sit back and hope things get better. Energy prices will skyrocket and those that had the willpower to invest in sources that aren't directly tied to crude oil will succeed. The lazy and the energy gourmands will just be left wishing they did something.

wish I could find more about it but BP ran a car in the American Le Mans Series that was a mixture of ethanol/biobutanol. The weak point of biobutanol is that it has a very low octane rating that's largely unsuitable for automobiles. However, biobutanol has an energy content nearly identical to that of gas. Ethanol has an extremely high octane rating, but has somewhere around 80% the energy content of gas. Mix the two, you have a suitably renewable fuel that doesn't hemorrhage the mileage of a car running it.

[Recyclerz]

Higher and higher. (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/22/science/earth/22carbon.html?_r=1&hp)

[sailor]

Doesn't e85, for instance cost less than regular gas? What's the issue then with high costs like you mention?

[StanUpshaw]

Doesn't e85, for instance cost less than regular gas? What's the issue then with high costs like you mention?

E85 has 70-75% of the energy content of gasoline, so it should cost less no matter what, but the price you pay at the pump is enormously suppressed by the massive subsidies we Americans generously provide.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

E85 has 70-75% of the energy content of gasoline, so it should cost less no matter what, but the price you pay at the pump is enormously suppressed by the massive subsidies we Americans generously provide.


He thanks you for your charitable contribution

http://www.apfn.org/apfn/wesley_clark.jpg



http://www.growthenergy.org/news-media-center/ethanol-in-the-news/wesley-clark-calls-for-more-ethanol-in-iowa-stop/

[StanUpshaw]

I'm going to pull a Dixie Chicks here:

I'm ashamed Tom Harkin is an Iowan.

[Syd]

Doesn't e85, for instance cost less than regular gas? What's the issue then with high costs like you mention?

It will pretty much always cost more, but right now it is heavily subsidized. Oil is cheap because you're just pulling it out of the ground and you use, like, 1 barrel of oil worth of energy to extract like 40 barrels of oil. Ethanol if I remember correctly isn't more than like 1 barrel for 5-10 for wildly optimistic returns. More energy has to be spent cultivating the biomass to be converted as well as the lower energy content per unit.

though one thing to remember is that Ethanol does have an extremely high octane rating -- if in the future the technology becomes commonplace to allow gas engines to ignite fuel through compression rather than spark plugs, ethanol will increase the overall efficiency of the engine.

[StanUpshaw]

Lol. I just ordered an tripod that weighs all of eight ounces and am having it flown to me overnight. Amazon hates the environment.

http://www.amazon.com/b?ie=UTF8&node=2441323011&tag=gmgamzn-20

[hanso]

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The folks on this channel have never brought up eratic/extreme weather conditions as far as I know. Which has been in the global warming description all along.

[Dudeman]

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The folks on this channel have never brought up eratic/extreme weather conditions as far as I know. Which has been in the global warming description all along.

Here is the article this genius was referring to:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/26/opinion/26cohen.html


This is the resume of the author:
Dr. Judah Cohen, Director of Seasonal Forecasting, joined Atmospheric and Environmental Research, Inc. as a Staff Scientist in 1998. Prior to AER, he spent two years as a National Research Council Fellow at the NASA Goddard Institute for Space Studies after two years as a research scientist at MIT’s Parsons Laboratory. Cohen received his Ph.D. in Atmospheric Sciences from Columbia University in 1994

[hanso]

Every time I see coverage on this from them. It is slamming/needling/joking on the pro side of this and never bringing up the basic description of it. Which we see every weather season. Not very fair or balanced on their part.

[spoon]

typical report on something they don't like/disagree with

[WRESTLINGFAN]

On an episode of Nova scientists dug into core samples in Antarctica and thy found evidence that it went thru numerous cycles over millions of years. It showed that it was a once tropical climate that had shellfish and plankton.

Man and indistry is no match for the changing climate cycles, The earth has gone thru countless patterns over its 4.5 billion years. So climate and weather is natural and not man made.

[spoon]

On an episode of Nova scientists dug into core samples in Antarctica and thy found evidence that it went thru numerous cycles over millions of years. It showed that it was a once tropical climate that had shellfish and plankton.

Man and indistry is no match for the changing climate cycles, The earth has gone thru countless patterns over its 4.5 billion years. So climate and weather is natural and not man made.

Right, we have NO effect on climate bc you saw a program on tv that said the earth didn't look like it does now millions of years ago. Ok, that settles it.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Right, we have NO effect on climate bc you saw a program on tv that said the earth didn't look like it does now millions of years ago. Ok, that settles it.

What the fuck do they know? They are just a bunch of Scientists

[spoon]

What the fuck do they know? They are just a bunch of Scientists

Yes, they are indeed. Yet did you listen to the actual show or just hear what you wanted? I'm pretty sure I saw the same show, or at least one just like it, and of they were looking at weather patterns over HUGE amounts of time and how we are currently going through a similar possible change at an exponentially faster rate with man being the catalyst behind it. While we may not be able to control some aspects of weather, saying we have no impact is a completely different discussion they never staked claim to. In fact, these people are not on the side you think.

[hanso]

Was it called Secrets Beneath the Ice ?

[spoon]

Was it called Secrets Beneath the Ice ?

Not sure on my end what it was called.

It was a few years back and it really wasn't very earth shattering to me overall.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Junk science satellite crashes into Pacific. Nearly half a billion pissed away




http://news.yahoo.com/s/space/20110304/sc_space/rocketcarryingnewnasaclimatesatellitelikelycrashed intopacificocean

[spoon]

Junk science satellite crashes into Pacific. Nearly half a billion pissed away




http://news.yahoo.com/s/space/20110304/sc_space/rocketcarryingnewnasaclimatesatellitelikelycrashed intopacificocean

Yeah, "junk science"...right. In fact, who the fuck cares about our weather, our planet or the effects of the Sun on our atmosphere. Actually WF, this sat perhaps could have solidified the argument either way, as it wasn't going up to prove one thing over another, it was to research the overall interaction of the sun on our atmosphere and specific particles. Yes, completely junk science to study this as the sun continues to show volatile/drastic changes of late as well. Let's just look away.

You never fail to politicize even the most remotely political issue, and be completely wrong with it as well.

NASA's lost Glory

The Glory satellite was designed to study the interaction between the sun's energy and Earth's atmosphere, with a specific focus on tiny particles – called aerosols – and their role in the planet's climate. Scientists hoped the satellite would address key uncertainties in climate research — especially those surrounding the contributions of manmade and natural aerosols to global climate change.

"It would have made important measurements to the understanding of Earth as a system and the impacts of climate change," said Mike Luther, deputy associate administrator for programs in NASA's science division.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

You're damn fucking right when half a billion of our tax dollars were pissed away. As far as climate change hysteria I am politicizing it when some hack politician legislates on lightbulbs which contain mercury.

[Crispy123]

"It would have made important measurements to the understanding of Earth as a system and the impacts of climate change," said Mike Luther, deputy associate administrator for programs in NASA's science division.

Fez's mesiah has spoken.

[keithy_19]

As someone who hates the earth I am happy to see it being destroyed.

[spoon]

You're damn fucking right when half a billion of our tax dollars were pissed away. As far as climate change hysteria I am politicizing it when some hack politician legislates on lightbulbs which contain mercury.

different discussion...again

[Syd]

You're damn fucking right when half a billion of our tax dollars were pissed away. As far as climate change hysteria I am politicizing it when some hack politician legislates on lightbulbs which contain mercury.

if you're worried about mercury, where's the outrage against coal power plants?

[spoon]

if you're worried about mercury, where's the outrage against coal power plants?

Pick and choose, the mantra of any good hypocrite.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

if you're worried about mercury, where's the outrage against coal power plants?

I am not wearing a hazmat uniform in Connecticut.


Its not just mercury. No one should tell anyone what kind of lightbulb to use in their place of living.

If you choose to buy those bulbs, fine, its your money but its fucking ridiculous to demand that I buy them too.

[spoon]

I am not wearing a hazmat uniform in Connecticut.


Its not just mercury. No one should tell anyone what kind of lightbulb to use in their place of living.

If you choose to buy those bulbs, fine, its your money but its fucking ridiculous to demand that I buy them too.

successful again at changing the convo in only a few posts

[WRESTLINGFAN]

successful again at changing the convo in only a few posts

My state is leading the way to reduce mercury emissions.



http://www.newrules.org/environment/rules/mercury-pollution/mercury-reduction-coal-plants-ct


Buzz off EPA. We can take care of our own state

[hanso]

As someone who hates the earth I am happy to see it being destroyed.

I can print out the pages of your blog and burn them if that helps.

[hanso]

The light bulb thing has more to do with progress in technology. Like LED bulbs being used more.

WF just because you pay taxes does not give you the right to be wasteful. I'm glad my taxes go to finding ways of being more efficient.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

The light bulb thing has more to do with progress in technology. Like LED bulbs being used more.

WF just because you pay taxes does not give you the right to be wasteful. I'm glad my taxes go to finding ways of being more efficient.

Again. Buy whichever lightbulbs YOU want. Where are all these jobs for LED being created? Thats right China.


A program subsidizing the purchase of CFL's fails? Whoa I am shocked
:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:


http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704259704576033890595565026.html

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Careful not to drop one of these death bulbs


http://www.ct.gov/dph/lib/dph/cfl_fact_sheet_final.pdf



Leave it to progressives to come up with an 800 page bill in 2007 , signed by Dubya which once took a simple sweep of an incandescent bulb , now turns it into an all day project.


No wonder these fuckbags are hated.

[A.J.]

if you're worried about mercury, where's the outrage against coal power plants?

I'm outraged against Loretta Lynn's father.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Mercury Morris is reduced to doing hair growth commercials

[hanso]

WF is just mad that someday his Easy Bake oven won't work.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

WF is just mad that someday his Easy Bake oven won't work.

No pot brownies for the progressives then

[Dan 'Hampton]

Die. P

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Anything that makes Waxman throw a shit fit is ok with me :clap:

Neuter the EPA

http://www.nytimes.com/cwire/2011/03/04/04climatewire-new-anti-epa-bill-aims-to-rein-in-agencys-cl-37816.html

[WRESTLINGFAN]

And the newest one concerned about the earth....


CHARLIE MANSON

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/04/19/charles-manson-global-warming_n_851187.html


He does have something in common with AlGORE as both are cult leaders

:lol::lol::lol:

[TripleSkeet]

And the newest one concerned about the earth....


CHARLIE MANSON

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/04/19/charles-manson-global-warming_n_851187.html


He does have something in common with AlGORE as both are cult leaders

:lol::lol::lol:

Im trying to understand your posts, I dont know why but I am.

Are you seriously trying to say that climate change is a complete myth and the Earths weather hasnt changed at all since, say, we were kids 30 years ago? Really???

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Im trying to understand your posts, I dont know why but I am.

Are you seriously trying to say that climate change is a complete myth and the Earths weather hasnt changed at all since, say, we were kids 30 years ago? Really???

No ones denying that at all, however It is not proven that human beings are the sole result of that. Drive a golf cart, drive a ferrari it makes no difference to me, however I dont need some former VP mandating that I must adhere to a peasant lifestyle while he lives like a king

[TripleSkeet]

No ones denying that at all, however It is not proven that human beings are the sole result of that. Drive a golf cart, drive a ferrari it makes no difference to me, however I dont need some former VP mandating that I must adhere to a peasant lifestyle while he lives like a king

Ok, I can agree with that. And while I doubt humans are the sole reason for climate change, I think to deny people have anything to do with it at this point is just retarded. Youve now got billions of people on this planet, not only sucking up the natural resources like a group of locusts but also polluting the land, air and water with all kinds of chemicals that wouldnt be there if it werent for mankind. That kind of shit is going to affect the earth and in turn the weather as a result.

[A.J.]

Youve now got billions of people on this planet, not only sucking up the natural resources like a group of locusts but also polluting the land, air and water with all kinds of chemicals that wouldnt be there if it werent for mankind. That kind of shit is going to affect the earth and in turn the weather as a result.

Save the planet: thin the herd.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

These leftist Latin American leaders really amaze me.


http://www.ens-newswire.com/ens/apr2011/2011-04-20-01.html


In regards to earth day. Is it a coincidence that Its the same day as Lenins?

[Recyclerz]

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Mildly entertaining especially insofar that you get to hear scientists say fuck a lot.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Beware of those CFL Lightbulbs that your overlords in the federal government will require in the next few years

http://www.sacbee.com/2011/05/10/3615738/telstar-recalls-energy-saving.html


How we allow our dear leaders to enact laws to ban incandescent lightbulbs on private property which harm no one is beyond me,

A little mercury in fish people go batshit. Drop a CFL bulb, dont worry just be careful cleaning up the mess.

Dont even compare this to recalled cars. In 2014 buying cars will remain voluntary. Who knows maybe Chevy volts will be mandatory