Al-Qaida terrorist on Detroit flight attempts to blow up plane

[Foster]

A Northwest Airlines passenger landing in Detroit on Friday tried to blow up the flight, officials said. The passenger allegedly said he was acting of behalf of al-Qaida.

(http://www.newsday.com/news/nation/officials-al-qaida-terrorist-on-detroit-flight-attempts-to-blow-up-plane-1.1671554)

[Chigworthy]

http://www.latimes.com/news/nation-and-world/la-na-detroit-airline26-2009dec26,0,7667849.story

Here's a better article.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Whew!!! Im glad it wasnt those crazy Buddhists or Methodists again. Janet Napolitano is all over it, I can sleep well tonight

[GregoryJoseph]

Whew!!! Im glad it wasnt those crazy Buddhists or Methodists again

Careful now! People will jump down your throat and tell you how awful Christians are.

They killed thousands of people in the Middle Ages you know!

[Chigworthy]

I'm guessing it was a misunderstanding and he was just bringing 11 million dollars to some American that had helped fund the laundering of the money after the coup.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I'm guessing it was a misunderstanding and he was just bringing 11 million dollars to some American that had helped fund the laundering of the money after the coup.

Or someone called him a Dumb Nigerian and he heard it the wrong way

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Careful now! People will jump down your throat and tell you how awful Christians are.

They killed thousands of people in the Middle Ages you know!

Youre right, You know that Pope Benedict calling for another crusade should get everyone worried

[SatCam]

Plane incident called an act of terrorism

im glad we got that out of the way

[KnoxHarrington]

The initial reports of this had the dude shooing off fireworks -- now it's an "explosive."

Plus, I want to see some actual proof that he's with al-Qaida in any way.

I'm still thinking this is a random nutjob until I hear a little more.

I know this won't stop the "dur dur mud people wanna blow us up" parade, but oh well.

[Dude!]

The initial reports of this had the dude shooing off fireworks -- now it's an "explosive."

Plus, I want to see some actual proof that he's with al-Qaida in any way.

I'm still thinking this is a random nutjob until I hear a little more.

I know this won't stop the "dur dur mud people wanna blow us up" parade, but oh well.

yeah
like the random islamic nutjob
at fort hood

a surprising number
of random nutjobs
seem to be islamic

but surely, that is just a coincidence

[brettmojo]

a surprising number
of random nutjobs
seem to be religious

but surely, that is just a coincidence
Surely.

[pennington]

Expect even more extensive security searches at the airports. Right when everyone is traveling home from Christmas. Maybe his ultimate goal was to get everybody cranky after the holidays.

[pennington]

The initial reports of this had the dude shooing off fireworks -- now it's an "explosive."

Well, fireworks actually are explosives. But carry on...

[underdog]

If a plane blows up in Detroit, does anyone notice?

I know this won't stop the "dur dur mud people wanna blow us up" parade, but oh well.

It was already happening in this thread before your post.

[underdog]

They killed thousands of people in the Middle Ages you know!

Yes, because that's the last time Christians caused deaths.

Your history teacher was fucking horrible.

[KnoxHarrington]

Well, fireworks actually are explosives. But carry on...

True, but there's a difference between a M-80 and a brick of C4. I want to know if the dude had something that could actually bring down a plane, or was just a douche with a cherry bomb.

[Ritalin]

I don't see how discussing religion and/or race is going to make us any more secure. If a bomb goes off on the subway train I'm riding, it could have been carried on by any of the people in that car - except me of course.

[STC-Dub]

And my wife has a flight tomorrow, fun.

[Coach]

Don't worry, Obama is in Hawaii

[underdog]

I don't see how discussing religion and/or race is going to make us any more secure. If a bomb goes off on the subway train I'm riding, it could have been carried on by any of the people in that car - except me of course.

You're such a muslim apologist. Don't you understand that they're all awful people who want to kill other people?

And my wife has a flight tomorrow, fun.

Well, I guess statistically, she should be fine.

And my wife does, too. And she's coming out of Buffalo! If they're going after Detroit, what shithole are they going to next?! It could be Cleveland, Cincinnati or Buffalo!

[SatCam]

Expect even more extensive security searches at the airports. Right when everyone is traveling home from Christmas. Maybe his ultimate goal was to get everybody cranky after the holidays.

don't worry, they'll lax up on the security in 6mo-1yr until something like this happens again

If a plane blows up in Detroit, does anyone notice?

id rather be blown up than be in detroit

[Foster]

Don't worry, Obama is in Hawaii

ok, so he has an alibi

[Syd]

I don't see how discussing religion and/or race is going to make us any more secure. If a bomb goes off on the subway train I'm riding, it could have been carried on by any of the people in that car - except me of course.

Because no violence has been caused by Christianity. Especially no one named Eric Rudolph bombed the Atlanta Olympics. Nor are there ever bombings or other forms of terrorism at abortion clinics. It's best to focus on only one religion because there's only one religion capable of spawning violence.

[underdog]

Because no violence has been caused by Christianity. Especially no one named Eric Rudolph bombed the Atlanta Olympics. Nor are there ever bombings or other forms of terrorism at abortion clinics. It's best to focus on only one religion because there's only one religion capable of spawning violence.

Was Ritalin being sarcastic? If so, I completely missed it.

[pennington]

True, but there's a difference between a M-80 and a brick of C4. I want to know if the dude had something that could actually bring down a plane, or was just a douche with a cherry bomb.

That's fair. I'm sure we will find out in a few days.

[epo]

Don't worry, Obama is in Hawaii

What does that have to do with anything?

[epo]

The initial reports of this had the dude shooing off fireworks -- now it's an "explosive."

Plus, I want to see some actual proof that he's with al-Qaida in any way.

I'm still thinking this is a random nutjob until I hear a little more.

I know this won't stop the "dur dur mud people wanna blow us up" parade, but oh well.

God forbid we wait a couple of minutes for law enforcement to clarify the situation...let CABLE NEWS TELL US NOW!

[west milly Tom]

Because no violence has been caused by Christianity. Especially no one named Eric Rudolph bombed the Atlanta Olympics. Nor are there ever bombings or other forms of terrorism at abortion clinics. It's best to focus on only one religion because there's only one religion capable of spawning violence.

the religion that seems the most capable right now is Muslim. We all know that there are religious nuts of all kinds but the most relevant to us in the world today are Muslim.

[Dude!]

sometimes i almost wish for
a takeover by islamic terrorists
because people like
underdog, ritalin and syd
would be among the first
to be beheaded

[Kevin]

sometimes i almost wish for
a takeover by islamic terrorists
because people like
underdog, ritalin and syd
would be among the first
to be beheaded

Nothing you say
ever makes any
sense you should
try to make
valid points
in your
posts.

[west milly Tom]

sometimes i almost wish for
a takeover by islamic terrorists
because people like
underdog, ritalin and syd
would be among the first
to be beheaded


They're alright just different from you. I certainly don't wish for their beheading.

[Kevin]

the religion that seems the most capable right now is Muslim. We all know that there are religious nuts of all kinds but the most relevant to us in the world today are Muslim.

Every religion is fucked up

From the Nazi's to the IRA.

Isreal constintly commits human right attrociaties in Palistine.

When Religion is involved, EVERYONE is a fucking nut job.

[Syd]

sometimes i almost wish for
a takeover by islamic terrorists
because people like
underdog, ritalin and syd
would be among the first
to be beheaded

I'd rather die than cower in fear of the oogey boogey Muslims. 40,000+ people will unfortunately die this year due to motor vehicle accidents. That's almost guaranteed to be higher than the number of people killed worldwide by terrorism yet no one is particularly concerned about car accidents compared to how concerned people are by terrorism.

[Kevin]

Yes, because that's the last time Christians caused deaths.

Your history teacher was fucking horrible.

I'm pretty sure the Nazi's, Serbs and the IRA were all Muslims..

Right?

[west milly Tom]

I'd rather die than cower in fear of the oogey boogey Muslims. 40,000+ people will unfortunately die this year due to motor vehicle accidents. That's almost guaranteed to be higher than the number of people killed worldwide by terrorism yet no one is particularly concerned about car accidents compared to how concerned people are by terrorism.


Car accidents don't blow up buildings either.

[underdog]

sometimes i almost wish for
a takeover by islamic terrorists
because people like
underdog, ritalin and syd
would be among the first
to be beheaded

No one would dare behead me. I'm too precious.

Also, my point is never that Islamic terrorists aren't dangerous. It's that all religions are equal and should all be treated with the same disdain and fear.

[underdog]

Car accidents don't blow up buildings either.

So it's the buildings that we care about?

[west milly Tom]

Religion itself isn't bad its the nuts that feel they need to impose their beliefs on others. I think we can all agree on that.

[Foster]

I'd rather die than cower in fear of the oogey boogey Muslims. 40,000+ people will unfortunately die this year due to motor vehicle accidents. That's almost guaranteed to be higher than the number of people killed worldwide by terrorism yet no one is particularly concerned about car accidents compared to how concerned people are by terrorism.

I think the key word there is "accidents", recent studies show terrorism may be intentional

[west milly Tom]

I think the key word there is "accidents", recent studies show terrorism may be intentional



Ba Zing!

[Syd]

I think the key word there is "accidents", recent studies show terrorism may be intentional

I'll have to remember that death isn't all that big of a deal if someone dies accidentally.

[west milly Tom]

I'll have to remember that death isn't all that big of a deal if someone dies accidentally.



You're misdirection is not quite as good as David Copperfield's.

[underdog]

Religion itself isn't bad its the nuts that feel they need to impose their beliefs on others. I think we can all agree on that.

I would argue that organized religion is bad.

[Foster]

I'll have to remember that death isn't all that big of a deal if someone dies accidentally.

when anyones life is cut short its tragic, no matter what the cause,

but if you don't see a difference between someone dieing in an accident and someone being killed intentionally, then there is no point to continue this discussion

[Syd]

Motobecane bikes aren't as good as Giant bikes

[Syd]

when anyones life is cut short its tragic, no matter what the cause,

but if you don't see a difference between someone dieing in an accident and someone being killed intentionally, then there is no point to continue this discussion


if you don't see that the end result in both cases is the same, and one is exponentially more likely, then there is no point to continue this discussion

[west milly Tom]

if you don't see that the end result in both cases is the same, and one is exponentially more likely, then there is no point to continue this discussion

So what you're saying is that we are focusing too much on terrorism when we should be fighting against car accidents more?

[underdog]

So what you're saying is that we are focusing too much on terrorism when we should be fighting against car accidents more?

I think syd's point is that we overreact to terrorism too much.

It's similar to me as to when there was a video floating around about that girl who got a crazy side effect from the flu shot. People started freaking out and saying they wouldn't get the flu shot because of it, even though the chance of dying from the flu was like 100x higher than ever getting that side effect.

[Syd]

So what you're saying is that we are focusing too much on terrorism when we should be fighting against car accidents more?

What i'm saying is don't persecute Muslims because some people who have been victimized through American foreign policy have turned to violence as a response. Or the same people force other people to violent responses against America.

[epo]

Terrorism is nothing more than a tactic. Its been used by nation-states for hundreds of years and used by non-nation states since the IRA picked it up.

Instead of freaking out and changing the way we live, lets learn the lessons of history and deploy our awesome military/military intelligence to wipe out groups that choose to use this tactic.

[foodcourtdruide]

I think we all agree that muslim extremists that try to blow up airliners are very bad. Some people on this board try to put all muslims and all of islam in the extremist group though. It would be as if someone claimed the kkk is indicative of all Christianity. It is not valid.

[topless_mike]

http://blogs.seattleweekly.com/reverb/GZA.jpg

"for years, religion did nothing but divide"


seriously. eliminate religion, and you've just solved 60% of the world's problems.

[west milly Tom]

What i'm saying is don't persecute Muslims because some people who have been victimized through American foreign policy have turned to violence as a response. Or the same people force other people to violent responses against America.



Right so Muslim extremism is America's fault. good point.

[Furtherman]

the religion that seems the most capable right now is Muslim. We all know that there are religious nuts of all kinds but the most relevant to us in the world today are Muslim.

The most relevant to you.

They're alright just different from you. I certainly don't wish for their beheading.

There's truth in your jest!



When Religion is involved, EVERYONE is a fucking nut job.

I would argue that organized religion is bad.

Ahhh, the wise men. 'Tis the season!




To get back on topic (please, the religion argument will go NOWHERE)... I'm thinking the guy is just some lone nut. If was really an operative, it would have been a more elaborate execution of a plan.

[Foster]

What i'm saying is don't persecute Muslims because some people who have been victimized through American foreign policy have turned to violence as a response. Or the same people force other people to violent responses against America.

and we shouldn't fault automakers for making cars with defective airbags, because we deserve it for polluting the environment with those gas-guzzlers

[TripleSkeet]

I think this proves you never have to worry about another flight being hijacked ever again. The other passengers were on this guy before he could even get out of his seat.

[Syd]

Right so Muslim extremism is America's fault. good point.

Colonies eventually revolt. That's the way things work -- why wouldn't American imperialism have the same results as everyone else?

[Furtherman]

I think this proves you never have to worry about another flight being hijacked ever again. The other passengers were on this guy before he could even get out of his seat.

Oh and I hope he got a good pounding.

[west milly Tom]

The most relevant to you.



There's truth in your jest!.



no jest budday and me definitely also civilization as a whole. I get where you're coming from but Muslim extremism is the most prevalent form of religious nuttery today especially here in the US. Stop making excuses for violence. If it were Christian extremism you'd be singing a different tune.

[Furtherman]

no jest budday and me definitely also civilization as a whole. I get where you're coming from but Muslim extremism is the most prevalent form of religious nuttery today especially here in the US. Stop making excuses for violence. If it were Christian extremism you'd be singing a different tune.

There are thousands of people who consider themselves "god's warriors" in the United States who aren't Muslim. That IS christian extremism. They're much more dangerous than someone trying to come here are kill. They're teaching they're children their ways - which will be much more harmful. I didn't make any excuse for violence either.

[west milly Tom]

There are thousands of people who consider themselves "god's warriors" in the United States who aren't Muslim. That IS christian extremism. They're much more dangerous than someone trying to come here are kill. They're teaching they're children their ways - which will be much more harmful. I didn't make any excuse for violence either.


Who have the insidious "Gods Warriors" killed lately? And why are they more dangerous than terrorists?

[SatCam]

Instead of freaking out and changing the way we live, lets learn the lessons of history and deploy our awesome military/military intelligence to wipe out groups that choose to use this tactic.

i think if anything history teaches us to do the exact opposite. the fact that we blatantly ignore that is nothing short of mind boggling

[Furtherman]

Who have the insidious "Gods Warriors" killed lately? And why are they more dangerous than terrorists?

It does not matter that they haven't killed anyone yet, for they are no different then the beginnings of islamic extremism. Our good soldiers can target and hunt to wipe them out, for that's the only way to eliminate the threat. Some will get through, the odds are set. The christian extremism in our country is taking root. It's being dug into young minds. Cemented. And we all know how hard it is to remove things you learned as a child from your mind. That is dangerous. That will be a problem. Not an overseas problem, but a homegrown one.

[west milly Tom]

i think if anything history teaches us to do the exact opposite. the fact that we blatantly ignore that is nothing short of mind boggling

This.

[SatCam]

I think this proves you never have to worry about another flight being hijacked ever again. The other passengers were on this guy before he could even get out of his seat.

he managed to set himself on fire before anyone was able to do anything. had his bomb actually worked everyone would have died.

[Tenbatsuzen]

True, but there's a difference between a M-80 and a brick of C4. I want to know if the dude had something that could actually bring down a plane, or was just a douche with a cherry bomb.

For what it's worth, a couple of well placed cherry bombs in the galley can do some serious damage.

[TripleSkeet]

he managed to set himself on fire before anyone was able to do anything. had his bomb actually worked everyone would have died.

Thats not a hijacking.

[SatCam]

For what it's worth, a couple of well placed cherry bombs in the galley can do some serious damage.

ive just reported this post

[west milly Tom]

It does not matter that they haven't killed anyone yet, for they are no different then the beginnings of islamic extremism. Our good soldiers can target and hunt to wipe them out, for that's the only way to eliminate the threat. Some will get through, the odds are set. The christian extremism in our country is taking root. It's being dug into young minds. Cemented. And we all know how hard it is to remove things you learned as a child from your mind. That is dangerous. That will be a problem. Not an overseas problem, but a homegrown one.

Where does your hate for Christianity spring from? You sound totally nutty. the threat? let our soldiers wipe them out?

[SatCam]

Thats not a hijacking.

you're right, but when youre on fire it's kindve hard to defend yourself. the 9/11 planes were hijacked by 10 guys with boxcutters and knives. all im saying is today's incident proves nothing about hijacking. it does prove that someone can get onto a plane with a bomb and blow it up (provided they know how to make a working bomb)

[Furtherman]

Where does your hate for Christianity spring from? You sound totally nutty. the threat? let our soldiers wipe them out?

You need to read what I wrote again.

[underdog]

Ahhh, the wise men. 'Tis the season!

You just called Kevin and me "wise men". Are you drunk?

i think if anything history teaches us to do the exact opposite. the fact that we blatantly ignore that is nothing short of mind boggling

What are we blatantly ignoring?

[underdog]

Where does your hate for Christianity spring from? You sound totally nutty. the threat? let our soldiers wipe them out?

He's talking about our soldiers wiping out muslim extremists.

[SatCam]

What are we blatantly ignoring?

that trying to eliminate extremists just antagonizes them and creates more extremists.



and on a larger scale that war creates more problems than it solves

[Tenbatsuzen]

ive just reported this post

you're not old or creepy enough to be doing that.

[Furtherman]

He's talking about our soldiers wiping out muslim extremists.

I knew you were wise!

Or, able to comprehend english!

[west milly Tom]

He's talking about our soldiers wiping out muslim extremists.
you both missed my point.

Christian extremism is taking root in our country? This country was founded on Christian principles. You're so far off.

[Furtherman]

you both missed my point.

Christian extremism is taking root in our country? This country was founded on Christian principles. You're so far off.

At the risk of being ironic.

Oh good lord.

I can't go on explaining every explanation.

[west milly Tom]

At the risk of being ironic.

Oh good lord.

I can't go on explaining every explanation.

Right again I don't get it.

[opie's twisted balls]

If a plane blows up in Detroit, does anyone notice?
Only if it crashes in Grosse Pointe


the religion that seems the most capable right now is Muslim. We all know that there are religious nuts of all kinds but the most relevant to us in the world today are Muslim.
Thank you!! I don't live or travel in/to the West Bank so could frankly a flying fuck about what happens in that part of the world. I do care about what occurs in North America and Western Europe and by that measure islamic fundamentalists are the threat.


Every religion is fucked up

From the Nazi's to the IRA.
Nazi's were religiously based? Where did you go to skool?

Isreal constintly commits human right attrociaties in Palistine.
Of course the jews are at fault! The PLO are a humanitarian organization.


I'd rather die than cower in fear of the oogey boogey Muslims. 40,000+ people will unfortunately die this year due to motor vehicle accidents. That's almost guaranteed to be higher than the number of people killed worldwide by terrorism yet no one is particularly concerned about car accidents compared to how concerned people are by terrorism.
You're an idiot for attempting to make that comparison. My Ford has NEVER shouted al akhbar and attempted to behead me.

What i'm saying is don't persecute Muslims because some people who have been victimized through American foreign policy have turned to violence as a response. Or the same people force other people to violent responses against America.
The same American foreign policy that shells out tens of billions of dollars every year in aid to feed, heal, cloth, house, protect the poorest people on the planet?


The other passengers were on this guy before he could even get out of his seat.
I hope whoever was sitting in 22a used their notebook to beat this savage to within an inch of his useless life.


Christian extremism is taking root in our country? This country was founded on Christian principles. You're so far off.
Christian principles, laws, ideals and norms. If you don't like it then stay the fuck out!

[TripleSkeet]

you're right, but when youre on fire it's kindve hard to defend yourself. the 9/11 planes were hijacked by 10 guys with boxcutters and knives. all im saying is today's incident proves nothing about hijacking. it does prove that someone can get onto a plane with a bomb and blow it up (provided they know how to make a working bomb)

I understand that. What Im saying is passengers will never agin sit idly by while terrorists hijack a plane. I dont care if they have boxcutters or machetes. Where before the rule was always to just sit still and let them negotiate, now the rule is as soon as someone fucks around on the plane, everyone attacks.

Youll never again see another 9/11, where they hijack a plane full of people, and fly it into a target. Its been made pretty clear that if people are going to die on a plane, they are going to die fighting.

[Syd]

Of course the jews are at fault! The PLO are a humanitarian organization.

http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2009/12/24/18633548.php

Israel is the light



You're an idiot for attempting to make that comparison. My Ford has NEVER shouted al akhbar and attempted to behead me.

No, but the cruise control system has probably tried to burn you alive.


The same American foreign policy that shells out tens of billions of dollars every year in aid to feed, heal, cloth, house, protect the poorest people on the planet?

The same American foreign policy that set up the Taliban to eventually kill us, the same American foreign policy that sells weapons to our enemies to fund terrorist organizations (Iran Contra), the same American foreign policy that sets up military coups on democratically elected governments (see just about any political instability in South and Central America), the same American foreign policy that subsidizes state-sponsored terrorism (Israel). Keep kidding yourself into thinking that terrorists hate us for our freedom.

Christian principles, laws, ideals and norms. If you don't like it then stay the fuck out!

Which Christian principles? Anglican? Calvinist? Catholic? Lutheran?

America was founded on blood, currency and opportunism. God was just slathered on top to make it palatable to the public.

[Chigworthy]

America was founded on blood, currency and opportunism.

You forgot booze.

[NewYorkDragons80]

Don't worry, Obama is in Hawaii

Or was it Kenya? Or BOTH?!

[K.C.]

Surely.

When have Christians ever shown any nutjobbery??

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[yojimbo7248]

I don't understand why Christians would be more sympathetic toward Islam. Both religions have many interpretations, sects and many of those are violent. Just as a methodist in Michigan should not be held responsible for what Serbian Christians do to Albanians, it is just inaccurate and wrong to label all Muslims as violent, America-hating. The largest populations of Muslims is in Indonesia. The thing that annoys me the most about these "fuck political correctness, Muslims are trying to kill us and I hate them" discussions is the ignorance. At least learn something about your enemy if you are convinced Muslims are such a threat to the US.

[sailor]

Terrorism is nothing more than a tactic. Its been used by nation-states for hundreds of years and used by non-nation states since the IRA picked it up.

Instead of freaking out and changing the way we live, lets learn the lessons of history and deploy our awesome military/military intelligence to wipe out groups that choose to use this tactic.

muslims? wow, never expected epo to take such a hard-line stance.

[Ritalin]

the religion that seems the most capable right now is Muslim. We all know that there are religious nuts of all kinds but the most relevant to us in the world today are Muslim.

I agree. How does a conversation about that make us safer? I'm
talking about security. If you want to talk about religion or race, go ahead, but one doesn't have to do
anything with the other.

[Ritalin]

sometimes i almost wish for
a takeover by islamic terrorists
because people like
underdog, ritalin and syd
would be among the first
to be beheaded

Dude, swing and a miss. I'm not defending any religion or race. I could give a shit about that, and I think that Muslims need to clean their own house. I think you'd actually be surprised how
much that is happening here in New York, and they've thwarted several attacks with the help
of the Muslim community here.

But all I'm concerned with is security. I really don't care about religion at all.

[sr71blackbird]

Detroit is such a key area too....

[underdog]

I don't understand why Christians would be more sympathetic toward Islam. Both religions have many interpretations, sects and many of those are violent. Just as a methodist in Michigan should not be held responsible for what Serbian Christians do to Albanians, it is just inaccurate and wrong to label all Muslims as violent, America-hating. The largest populations of Muslims is in Indonesia. The thing that annoys me the most about these "fuck political correctness, Muslims are trying to kill us and I hate them" discussions is the ignorance. At least learn something about your enemy if you are convinced Muslims are such a threat to the US.

But they're brown! And they hate our freedom!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

The United States can withdraw its military from every Muslim country and the extremists will still have a chip on their shoulder, they will keep beating their wives, call for Jihad if someone draws a picture of Mohammed and will remain having their backwards 7th century mindset

[FUNKMAN]

the countries full of terrorists... we avg about 12,000 murders a year, or last I heard

what's the difference between murderers and terrorists, body odor?

the victims all end up the same way

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I don't understand why Christians would be more sympathetic toward Islam. Both religions have many interpretations, sects and many of those are violent. Just as a methodist in Michigan should not be held responsible for what Serbian Christians do to Albanians, it is just inaccurate and wrong to label all Muslims as violent, America-hating. The largest populations of Muslims is in Indonesia. The thing that annoys me the most about these "fuck political correctness, Muslims are trying to kill us and I hate them" discussions is the ignorance. At least learn something about your enemy if you are convinced Muslims are such a threat to the US.

Anyone who says no to pork and booze is a threat regardless of religion

[Furtherman]

Right again I don't get it.

I think you have the ability to get it, because you start off logical:

Religion itself isn't bad its the nuts that feel they need to impose their beliefs on others. I think we can all agree on that.


But then a word or phrase is read incorrectly and you say something like this:

Where does your hate for Christianity spring from? You sound totally nutty. the threat? let our soldiers wipe them out?

Which has nothing to do with what I was talking about.

[epo]

muslims? wow, never expected epo to take such a hard-line stance.

Quite to the contrary. Instead of freaking out and attacking "large groups" we should use our intelligence community to isolate the group or even sect of groups that cause such activity and deal with those that employ terrorism in that manner.

This insane "blame all muslims" shit is just madness.

[furie]

Expect even more extensive security searches at the airports. Right when everyone is traveling home from Christmas. Maybe his ultimate goal was to get everybody cranky after the holidays.

it won't change much here in the US, as passengers are already screened for explosives and liquids

[furie]

the countries full of terrorists... we avg about 12,000 murders a year, or last I heard

what's the difference between murderers and terrorists, body odor?

the victims all end up the same way

intent

for a murderer, the act of murderer is the end, the goal.
for a terrorist, the act of murder is a means to an end, a tactic to instill fear in a population and try to coerce change in a government

no real difference to the victim, true, but you can see how a terrorist would be more dangerous to the government than a murderer.

[cougarjake13]

intent

for a murderer, the act of murderer is the end, the goal.
for a terrorist, the act of murder is a means to an end, a tactic to instill fear in a population and try to coerce change in a government

no real difference to the victim, true, but you can see how a terrorist would be more dangerous to the government than a murderer.


wow

too much knowledge for the day after christmas

[A.J.]

Don't worry, Obama is in Hawaii

ok, so he has an alibi

:laugh:

Don't worry, Obama is in Hawaii

What does that have to do with anything?

Because if something like this had happened when Bush was at his ranch, he'd have caught hell for it.

[Syd]

:laugh:





Because if something like this had happened when Bush was at his ranch, he'd have caught hell for it.

I never really understood the hate with that. It's kind of funny to rag on Bush for vacation time, but, look at a picture of Bush in 2000 and look at a picture of Bush in 2005. There's no legitimate way that you age that much in 5 years without massive amounts of stress. Let the president take as much time as they need, I'm pretty sure some people have invented things that allow people in one location to communicate to people in another location.

[KnoxHarrington]

I never really understood the hate with that. It's kind of funny to rag on Bush for vacation time, but, look at a picture of Bush in 2000 and look at a picture of Bush in 2005. There's no legitimate way that you age that much in 5 years without massive amounts of stress. Let the president take as much time as they need, I'm pretty sure some people have invented things that allow people in one location to communicate to people in another location.

Besides, I get the feeling that if Obama rushed back to Washington after this, he'd be attacked for grandstanding and trying to score political points out of the situation.

This sounds more and more like a lone nutjob who wasn't working with anyone. I'm not saying it's not serious, but it also looks like the situation is well under control.

[furie]

It doesn't like it's worth taking a vacation as president. he still has to get up early for the situation briefings and has to deal with this shit.

[FUNKMAN]

intent

for a murderer, the act of murderer is the end, the goal.
for a terrorist, the act of murder is a means to an end, a tactic to instill fear in a population and try to coerce change in a government

no real difference to the victim, true, but you can see how a terrorist would be more dangerous to the government than a murderer.

i can understand that and thanks for the viewpoint

thing is murderers such as serial killers, there is really no end unless they get caught. also how many people go missing as well but are not considered murdered? i'm sure it is thousands more per year

maybe, just maybe if we solve a lot of the reasons why people murder each other it would have an affect on people making a decision to become a terrorist...

economic status and political views are two of the biggest factors... religion is just being used as an excuse/tool to fight back against people who feel they are being oppressed by...

gotta say the recent happenings with the big banks(not all) but they gambled away trillions of dollars and very few stashed away huge sums of money. they've left millions of people having to labor for more years of their lives, homeless, jobless... in a system we have they received bailouts with taxpayer money, and they are supposed to pay it back... so what do they do, they raise credit card interest rates 5, 10, 15% just because they can

so they stole or gambled taxpayer money away, got repaid with taxpayer money, and are repaying with taxpayer money.

the problem is really too big to solve via legal, or political means. i thought Obama would call these issues out and address them head-on but even he is caught up in a system where he wields just so much power

the problem with terrorism is innocent people are being hurt. the people that need to be hurt live high on a hill somewhere

[Furtherman]

maybe, just maybe if we solve a lot of the reasons why people murder each other it would have an affect on people making a decision to become a terrorist...

economic status and political views are two of the biggest factors... religion is just being used as an excuse/tool to fight back against people who feel they are being oppressed by...


This is what the anti-muslim-ers in this thread have to realize.

Well said. Funkman is wise.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

This is what the anti-muslim-ers in this thread have to realize.

Well said. Funkman is wise.

Many of the high profile terrorist attacks going back to as early as 2001 have been done by well educated middle class Muslims, IE 9/11, London, Fort Hood for example,

This schtick that they are poor uneducated doesnt cut it anymore

[WRESTLINGFAN]

It doesn't like it's worth taking a vacation as president. he still has to get up early for the situation briefings and has to deal with this shit.

Does he clear brush?

[Furtherman]

Not a schtick, fact. Don't forget the majority of terrorist attacks rather than only the high profile ones.

[Donnie Iris]

Many of the high profile terrorist attacks going back to as early as 2001 have been done by well educated middle class Muslims, IE 9/11, London, Fort Hood for example,

This schtick that they are poor uneducated doesnt cut it anymore

I have no idea what your point is here.

Those that hate the "evil-doers" most fail to see that they are in fact very much similar to those they abhor. Unfounded disdain on both sides is created by sweeping small-minded generalizations. There are awful and amazing people of all walks (and religions).

[Son of Muta]

Many of the high profile terrorist attacks going back to as early as 2001 have been done by well educated middle class Muslims, IE 9/11, London, Fort Hood for example,

This schtick that they are poor uneducated doesnt cut it anymore

Pittsburgh, PA., April 4, 2009 - Richard Poplawski opened fire Pittsburgh Police officers: 3 dead, 2 wounded http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pittsburgh_Shooting#Aftermath

Camp Liberty, May 11, 2009 - Sgt. John M. Russell kills 5 fellow soldiers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp_Liberty_killings

Atlanta, GA., July 27, 1996 - Eric Rudolph kills 1 and wounds 111 at Centennial Olympic Park http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olympic_Bomber

OKC bombing, Oklahoma City, OK., April 19, 1995 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oklahoma_City_bombing

That's just four instances of non-Muslim, home grown Christian Extremism, what say you?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Army_of_God_(USA)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-abortion_violence#United_States

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Patriot_movement

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Identity_movement

Those are some of the right wing groups that Homeland Security said were on the rise...but I guess Beck and Hannity know what's right.

[opie's twisted balls]

The same American foreign policy that set up the Taliban to eventually kill us, the same American foreign policy that sells weapons to our enemies to fund terrorist organizations (Iran Contra), the same American foreign policy that sets up military coups on democratically elected governments (see just about any political instability in South and Central America), the same American foreign policy that subsidizes state-sponsored terrorism (Israel). Keep kidding yourself into thinking that terrorists hate us for our freedom.
I'm not suggesting that all American or Western foreign policy is correct but I prefer it over the savagery that's spawned from the Taliban and Saudi sponsored Wahhabi madrassas. Its childish and disingenuous to make a blanket statement thats its "freedom" that they dislike. Yes, our freedom of religion, speech, assembly, thought, economy goes against their beliefs but of course I acknowledge that the American presence in the middle east is a cause for consternation but thats not justification for terrorism.


America was founded on blood, currency and opportunism. God was just slathered on top to make it palatable to the public.
Ya, thats all.


The thing that annoys me the most about these "fuck political correctness, Muslims are trying to kill us and I hate them" discussions is the ignorance.
No, thats not a realistic or mature approach. I like Imperial Hubris (http://www.amazon.com/Imperial-Hubris-West-Losing-Terror/dp/1574888498) as a good overview on why certain muslims are pissed with the west and we as a whole don't "get it".


it won't change much here in the US, as passengers are already screened for explosives and liquids
Ya, no change (http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/bound+Calgary+passengers+face+delays+under+securit y+measures/2382638/story.html) whatsoever (http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/Europe+tightens+security+after+foiled+attack/2382495/story.html). :rolleyes:

Besides, I get the feeling that if Obama rushed back to Washington after this, he'd be attacked for grandstanding and trying to score political points out of the situation.
Thats alright, at least the media would be showing equality and start to treat him the same way they did Bush.

This sounds more and more like a lone nutjob who wasn't working with anyone.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/26/AR2009122601311.html?hpid=topnews

[KnoxHarrington]

In case you were wondering what sort of security measures were going to be imposed after this to make flying even more of a hellish experience, here you go:

Among other steps being imposed, passengers on international flights coming to the United States will apparently have to remain in their seats for the last hour of a flight without any personal items on their laps. Overseas passengers will be restricted to only one carry-on item aboard the plane, and domestic passengers will probably face longer security lines.

...

On its Web site, American Airlines said the T.S.A. had ordered new measures for flights departing from foreign locations to the United States, including mandatory screening of all passengers at airport gates during the boarding process. All carry-on items would be screened at security checkpoints and again at boarding, the airline said. It urged passengers to leave extra time for screening and boarding.

In effect, the restrictions mean that passengers on flights of 90 minutes or less would most likely not be able to leave their seats at all, since airlines do not allow passengers to walk around the cabin while a plane is climbing to its cruising altitude.




I'm just glad this guy didn't put this bomb up his ass or anything.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/27/us/27security.html?_r=4&ref=gaberivera&pagewanted=all

[Syd]

I'm not suggesting that all American or Western foreign policy is correct but I prefer it over the savagery that's spawned from the Taliban and Saudi sponsored Wahhabi madrassas. Its childish and disingenuous to make a blanket statement thats its "freedom" that they dislike. Yes, our freedom of religion, speech, assembly, thought, economy goes against their beliefs but of course I acknowledge that the American presence in the middle east is a cause for consternation but thats not justification for terrorism.

Would you be willing to sacrifice your own life to kill Saudis or Afghanis because of how their society acts? Would you be more willing to sacrifice your own life if Saudis began harassing, brutalizing and eventually killing your family and your neighbors?

The people who come to kill Americans here usually are highly educated, mostly well-off individuals. They're not so silly to attack us for our freedoms, they attack us because of American policy.

[epo]

Thats alright, at least the media would be showing equality and start to treat him the same way they did Bush.


I hate that right-wing talking point.

[Dude!]

The people who come to kill Americans here usually are highly educated, mostly well-off individuals. They're not so silly to attack us for our freedoms, they attack us because of American policy.

like you have a clue
as to their motives

unless...you're one of them

[Syd]

like you have a clue
as to their motives

unless...you're one of them

if Mexico invaded Virginia and began sabre-rattling against Maryland, I'd not only be one of them but i'd be head of the deconquista

[Syd]

however, I'm not going to kill Mexicans because they have decriminalized drugs and recognize gay marriages

[TripleSkeet]

In case you were wondering what sort of security measures were going to be imposed after this to make flying even more of a hellish experience, here you go:



I'm just glad this guy didn't put this bomb up his ass or anything.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/27/us/27security.html?_r=4&ref=gaberivera&pagewanted=all

Great. Next step, handcuffing us to the fucking seats.

[keithy_19]

however, I'm not going to kill Mexicans because they have decriminalized drugs and recognize gay marriages

Mexicans are libertarians!? Shit, I'm sneaking over!

[opie's twisted balls]

Would you be willing to sacrifice your own life to kill Saudis or Afghanis because of how their society acts?
No because that's not the path I chose in life. I will however support those who do.

Would you be more willing to sacrifice your own life if Saudis began harassing, brutalizing and eventually killing your family and your neighbors?
I would but what I wouldn't be prepared to do is take a group that I declare to be my enemy and sell them my oil or accept billions in foreign aid.

Great. Next step, handcuffing us to the fucking seats.
Airport security in 2015:
-arrive at airport 12 hours before your flight
-check ALL baggage, only personal items you're allowed is ID
-strip off all your cloths and be issued a smock
-be administered a high colonic to insure you don't have a bomb up your ass
-only be fed jello or clear liquids
-wait for your flight

[Ritalin]

According to ABC, this guy was Al Qaeda, who sewed PETN (plastic nitro) into his underwear in Yemen. It didn't go off because it was improperly fused.

According to the Daily News, the US was warned about his guy by his own father, but he wasn't on any No Fly list.

I'm reading through this thread, and you're all clucking like chickens back and forth at each other and missing the whole point, which is security.

Frankly, I think this latest failed airline bombing is another McGuffin. The fact remains that at anytime a reasonably organized group of crazies can shut the whole thing down by blowing themselves up on subway cars in New York, Washington and Chicago, and there's nothing we can do to stop it except stay diligent with our domestic intelligence.

Now you can go back to squawking about muslims and christians and Saudis and nonsense.

[opie's twisted balls]

I'm reading through this thread, and you're all clucking like chickens back and forth at each other and missing the whole point, which is security.
No security, specifically ineffective security, is the canary. Extremist terrorism conducted by radicalized muslims is still the larger issue.

[sailor]

Quite to the contrary. Instead of freaking out and attacking "large groups" we should use our intelligence community to isolate the group or even sect of groups that cause such activity and deal with those that employ terrorism in that manner.

This insane "blame all muslims" shit is just madness.

first it was epo wanting the religion of the muslims eradicated via violence, now he's clarifying that it's because he "blames all muslims". i think he's pulling a mojo and slipping off the deep end.

[Ritalin]

No security, specifically ineffective security, is the canary. Extremist terrorism conducted by radicalized muslims is still the larger issue.

Not if it isn't being conducted in the United States.

Now we're back to security. Ineffective? Yeah, in every case where someone slips through. So let's fix that.

Or does it make more sense to you to try to fix radicalized muslims?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Pittsburgh, PA., April 4, 2009 - Richard Poplawski opened fire Pittsburgh Police officers: 3 dead, 2 wounded http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pittsburgh_Shooting#Aftermath

Camp Liberty, May 11, 2009 - Sgt. John M. Russell kills 5 fellow soldiers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp_Liberty_killings

Atlanta, GA., July 27, 1996 - Eric Rudolph kills 1 and wounds 111 at Centennial Olympic Park http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olympic_Bomber

OKC bombing, Oklahoma City, OK., April 19, 1995 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oklahoma_City_bombing

That's just four instances of non-Muslim, home grown Christian Extremism, what say you?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Army_of_God_(USA)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-abortion_violence#United_States

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Patriot_movement

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Identity_movement

Those are some of the right wing groups that Homeland Security said were on the rise...but I guess Beck and Hannity know what's right.


No ones doubting those threats. Check out these websites please

http://thereligionofpeace.com/

jihadwatch.org

[opie's twisted balls]

Not if it isn't being conducted in the United States.
Thats fine except there are those of us who live outside the US and still threatened by islamic based terrorism.

Now we're back to security. Ineffective? Yeah, in every case where someone slips through. So let's fix that.
Of course! Screen, scan, poke, probe and PROFILE to the point that airport security is actually effective.

Or does it make more sense to you to try to fix radicalized muslims?
Fix, no. Treat as an identifiable threat that should at best be eliminated or at worst be prevented from harming western society, yes.

[Doogie]

For all you pinko commies who forgot we were fighting SAVAGES. I will gladly give you the addresses of TEN people I know killed by MUSLIMS!!!!!! Not Jews. Not Hindu's. Not Christians. But Muslims.

PM me...I will give you there addresses and you all can spit in their faces and tell em muslim is a nice religion.

Last I looked...the names on the flights crashing into the towers, or the pentagon, or Madrid, or London were Mickey, Tommy or Vinny.

Instead of giving you the "shut the fuck up" speech...I give you addresses instead. Addresses of daughters and sons who will never know their fathers and mothers growing up. Tell them Islam is a good religion...Tell em FAGGOTS!!!!

SHUT THE FUCK UP FAGGOTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

For those who opt out I give you an anthem that shall give you great pride and some tears: Obama pride (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yDrtNEr_5M).

[WRESTLINGFAN]

This guy was not living in a mudhut or relying on rice from UNICEF

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2009/12/27/2009-12-27_untitled__2london27m.html

[LordJezo]

I have to get on an international flight in 5 and a half hours.

Does this mean I am safe because this dude used up the remaining plane terrorism credits for the year?

[Dude!]

For all you pinko commies who forgot we were fighting SAVAGES. I will gladly give you the addresses of TEN people I know killed by MUSLIMS!!!!!! Not Jews. Not Hindu's. Not Christians. But Muslims.

PM me...I will give you there addresses and you all can spit in their faces and tell em muslim is a nice religion.

Last I looked...the names on the flights crashing into the towers, or the pentagon, or Madrid, or London were Mickey, Tommy or Vinny.

Instead of giving you the "shut the fuck up" speech...I give you addresses instead. Addresses of daughters and sons who will never know their fathers and mothers growing up. Tell them Islam is a good religion...Tell em FAGGOTS!!!!

SHUT THE FUCK UP FAGGOTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

For those who opt out I give you an anthem that shall give you great pride and some tears: Obama pride (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yDrtNEr_5M).

YAY!

[Ritalin]

I concede every point you guys are making. Yes, this was done by a well off educated radicalized Muslim. Yes, radical Islam is a security problem for the US. None of this knowledge makes my subway ride any safer.

You want to profile? Great, now you have to stop not only Middle Easterners, but also indoneseans, and every guido looking cat along the Jersey shore. Because I live here in Queens and every second generation middle easterner in my neighborhood looks like Jersey Shore. Plus, have we forgotten John Walker Lindh?

You guys are just ranting. What can we do that we aren't already doing that will make us safer?

[underdog]

tell em muslim is a nice religion.

The religion isn't "muslim".

[Dude!]

he's right
it's the moslem religion

[WRESTLINGFAN]

he's right
it's the moslem religion

Also the Moose-lim religion

[A.J.]

You want to profile? Great, now you have to stop not only Middle Easterners, but also indoneseans, and every guido looking cat along the Jersey shore.

Well, they ARE destroying America in their own way.

[Syd]

This guy was not living in a mudhut or relying on rice from UNICEF

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2009/12/27/2009-12-27_untitled__2london27m.html

Therein lies the problem. There are a lot of foreign professionals that are naturalized citizens or even second generationers that we can't ostracize just to make people feel safer. There are upwards of 25,000 flights per day in America. Do we just not allow anyone with foreign sounding names on planes now?

The reality of the situation is that there there is no stopping it, it's something you have to live with. The marginalized, be it real or imaginary, people in our society or any society have become quite radical and are now prone to violence. The same sort of mental defects that allows someone to be persuaded to violent action are the same that guides people who bring murder and violence to schools and campuses.

You're not just going to violence your way out of this problem. This is something you'll have to live with and accept. America doesn't have enough money, troops or influence to take over the world and shut down all the borders to protect us all. Someone will slip through. White people with white names are already being radicalized by terrorists -- what will we do when a white, anglo-saxon and formerly Protestant guy named John Smith inevitability commits an act of terror under the banner of Al Qaeda or another terrorist organization?

[opie's twisted balls]

You want to profile? Great, now you have to stop not only Middle Easterners, but also indoneseans, and every guido looking cat along the Jersey shore. Because I live here in Queens and every second generation middle easterner in my neighborhood looks like Jersey Shore. Plus, have we forgotten John Walker Lindh?
Someone's ethnicity is one part of what needs to be included to determine if they're a bona fide threat. Their relationships, political or religious affiliation, spending habits, income sources, travel history, etc. all need to be taken into consideration. Had effective profiling been in place prior to 9/11 and without the bullshit political correctness from organizations like the ACLU individuals like Mohamed Atta and Hani Hanjour would have been stopped. Human intelligence is how this war is going to be won.

[Syd]

I love the irony that right wingers claim to love freedom but deep down they're just another authoritarian that so desperately wants a big brother to coddle them and keep them enslaved

[KingGeno]

Here we go again, with less explodey:

http://www.cnn.com/2009/TRAVEL/12/27/airline.attack.security/index.html


'Disruptive' passenger prompts 2nd alert on Detroit-bound jet


(CNN) -- A Northwest Airlines jet was met by police at Detroit, Michigan's airport Sunday after its flight crew reported a "verbally disruptive" passenger, airline and airport officials said.


The crew of the Amsterdam, Netherlands-to-Detroit flight requested assistance two days after a man was accused of attempting to set off an explosive device aboard a jet flying the same route. Passengers were being let off the jetliner after landing, according to Susan Elliott, a spokeswoman for Delta Air Lines, which owns Northwest.
President Obama has ordered a review of security screening processes after Friday's botched terror attack on a U.S. airliner, White House press secretary Robert Gibbs said Sunday.


Appearing on the ABC program "This Week" and the NBC program "Meet the Press," Gibbs said Obama is receiving regular briefings by his national security staff on the incident in which a suspect allegedly tried to detonate an explosive device on a Northwest Airlines flight from Amsterdam, The Netherlands, making its final approach to Detroit, Michigan.


The suspect, 23-year-old Nigerian Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, was on a broad watch list of 550,000 names since last month, Gibbs said.
That list does not automatically bring tighter screening of individuals, Gibbs said, and Obama has ordered a review of the procedures for determining which people on the list undergo more stringent checking.


Obama also called for "a review to ... figure out why an individual with the chemical explosive he had on him could get on a plane in Amsterdam and fly into the United States," Gibbs said on NBC.


"The president is very confident that this government is taking the steps that are necessary to take our fight to those who seek to do us harm," Gibbs said on the ABC program.


Authorities on Sunday focused their investigation on how a lone traveler smuggled explosives aboard the Northwest Airlines flight and who might have helped him.
Abdulmutallab, who had a multiple entry visa to the United States, was charged Saturday in a federal criminal complaint.


Q&A: Why did security checks fail to spot explosives (http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/12/27/airline.attack.qanda/index.html)
People on the flight described a chaotic scene that began with a popping sound followed by flames erupting at Abdulmutallab's seat. Jasper Schuringa, a Dutch passenger on the flight from Amsterdam, leaped across the aisle to grab the suspect, who according to authorities suffered burns on his legs.


Schuringa told CNN he saw that Abdulmutallab was holding a burning object between his legs.


"I pulled the object from him and tried to extinguish the fire with my hands and threw it away," Schuringa said. He said he heard fire extinguishers as he pulled Abdulmutallab out of his seat and dragged him to the front of the plane.


In Nigeria, Abdulmutallab checked no baggage on his trip that originated in Lagos on a KLM flight to Amsterdam, where he changed planes to the Northwest flight, according to Harold Demuren, director-general of Nigeria's Civil Aviation Authority.


The suspect had a shoulder bag and went through the normal check-in process with his passport and U.S. visa scanned, Demuren said Sunday. The multiple-entry U.S. visa was issued in London, England, in June 2008 with an expiration date of June 2010, Demuren said.


Abdulmutallab then passed through a walk-through metal detector and put his shoulder bag through an X-ray screening machine, Demuren said. He also said the suspect underwent secondary screening at the boarding gate for the KLM flight, according to officials of the Dutch airline.


The father of the suspect recently contacted the U.S. Embassy in Nigeria with concerns his son was planning something, a senior U.S. administration official said Saturday.
The father -- identified by a family source as Umaru Abdulmutallab -- contacted the embassy "a few weeks ago" saying his son, Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, had "become radicalized," the senior administration official, who is familiar with the case, told CNN.
A family source told CNN that the elder Abdulmutallab -- who recently retired as chairman of First Bank PLC, one of Nigeria's premier banks -- had contacted the embassy in Nigeria's capital, Abuja, and various other security agencies earlier than the timeline provided by the administration official. The family source said Abdulmutallab went to those agencies about three months ago after receiving a text message from his son.




The source, who lives at the family home in Kaduna in northern Nigeria, said the son informed his family in the text message that he was leaving school in Dubai to move to Yemen. He implied that he was leaving "for the course of Islam."
The family member said Abdulmutallab "had no family consent or support," adding he "absconded to Yemen."


Abdulmutallab's information about his son was forwarded to the National Counter-Terrorism Center, and Abdulmutallab was added to a general watch list, a senior administration official said. But the official said "the info on him was not deemed specific enough to pull his visa or put him on a no-fly list."


In addition, the official said there was "no derogatory information that would have prevented him from getting a visa" back in June 2008.


A law enforcement official familiar with the investigation into Abdulmutallab said investigators are still trying to trace his past travels.


"Investigators are looking into any al Qaeda connections and whether he had help and training from Yemen," the law enforcement official said.


A preliminary FBI analysis found that the device on the plane contained PETN, also known as Pentaerythritol Tetranitrate, a highly explosive chemical compound. In addition, FBI agents recovered what appear to be remnants of a syringe near Abdulmutallab's seat, believed to have been part of the device.


The family source said Abdulmutallab received a college degree at the University College London, where spokesman Dave Weston said a man named Umar Farouk Abdul Mutallab was enrolled in the mechanical engineering department between September 2005 and June 2008.


When Abdulmutallab returned to Nigeria from London, he told his family he wanted to get a second college degree in Cairo, Egypt, or Saudi Arabia, the family source said. The family refused because they were worried that he may have developed ties to some dubious people. He went to Dubai instead, the source said, where he sent a text message saying he had gone to Yemen to start a new life and that it would be difficult for anyone to reach him because he had thrown away his SIM card.


Abdulmutallab's father notified the U.S. Embassy with information on his son, saying the family feared he went to Yemen to participate in "some kind of jihad."
A federal security bulletin obtained by CNN said Abdulmutallab claimed the explosive device used Friday "was acquired in Yemen along with instructions as to when it should be used."


Yemeni authorities have yet to receive official information on the terror attempt, according to a Yemeni official who asked not to be named because he is not authorized to speak to the media. But, the source said the country's government will take immediate action once the attempted bombing suspect's alleged link to the country is officially identified.


Earlier Saturday, the Netherlands' national coordinator for counterterrorism told CNN that Abdulmutallab had gone through "normal security procedures" in Amsterdam before boarding the flight and those were "well-performed."


The initial impression is that the suspect was acting alone and did not have any formal connections to organized terrorist (http://topics.cnn.com/topics/Terrorism) groups, a U.S. administration official said.
Rep. Bennie Thompson, D-Mississippi, who chairs the House Committee on Homeland Security, said the attempted act of terrorism would be the focus of an oversight hearing next month. Sen. Jay Rockefeller, D-West Virginia, also said his Senate Commerce Committee would hold a hearing on the incident.


In Nigeria, the government said Saturday that it "received with dismay the news of attempted terrorist attack on a U.S. airline" and has ordered its security agencies to investigate the incident.


Officials from the Nigerian Embassy in Washington have flown to Michigan "to gain Consular access" to Abdulmutallab, the embassy said in a statement Saturday. The embassy said it plans to cooperate with U.S. authorities.


An official with the Transportation Security Administration told CNN there will be increased security measures taken on international flights to the United States. The official advised travelers to allow for extra time before the flight. There will be no change in the number of carry-on bags allowed.



95% of that article is old news

[opie's twisted balls]

I love the irony that right wingers claim to love freedom but deep down they're just another authoritarian that so desperately wants a big brother to coddle them and keep them enslaved
Don't confuse freedom with responsibility.

[Syd]

Don't confuse freedom with responsibility.

Responsibility to what? Destroy the shit out of the Constitution? Every single one of the things you proposed is more at home in some bullshit banana republic. Go back to whatever horrible central American country you belong to.

[opie's twisted balls]

Responsibility to what? Destroy the shit out of the Constitution? Every single one of the things you proposed is more at home in some bullshit banana republic. Go back to whatever horrible central American country you belong to.
LOL, I'll stay right where I am thank you very much.

If you have the freedom to drive you have the responsibility to follow the laws. If you have the freedom to own a gun you have to follow the laws. If you have the freedom to enter the US or travel from state to state shouldn't there also be the requist laws to insure public safety? No I don't want a protectionist or authoritian nanny state but I do what is government and law enforcement to have the tools and ability to find and stop assholes before they commit crime be it domestic or internationally in source.

Laws and oversight are in place and change with demand and the current circumstances. If there's a demonstrable threat then you deal with it as directly as possible and don't pussyfoot around because of political correctness.

[Syd]

Then I don't want black people, gun owners or the mentally infirm travelling on mass transportation because they're all the usual suspects for committing violence. Let's not pussyfoot on safety. I want my government to take care of everything for me.

[opie's twisted balls]

Then I don't want black people, gun owners or the mentally infirm travelling on mass transportation
How are you going to get around?

I want my government to take care of everything for me.
Might I suggest Cuba.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Responsibility to what? Destroy the shit out of the Constitution? Every single one of the things you proposed is more at home in some bullshit banana republic. Go back to whatever horrible central American country you belong to.

I wish all the landscapers would. Speaking of which our incompetent DHS Sec Napolitano was yapping away about the Detroit incident, meanwhile as Governor she couldnt keep a bunch of illiterate peasants from ruining AZ

[A.J.]

Then I don't want black people, gun owners or the mentally infirm travelling on mass transportation because they're all the usual suspects for committing violence.

I don't want them in movie theaters.

[furie]

Quote:
Originally Posted by furie View Post
it won't change much here in the US, as passengers are already screened for explosives and liquids


Ya, no change whatsoever.


you understand that those articles involve flight bound for the US, and not IN the US, as I stated, right?

the TSA already looks for this kind of attack, but of course this guy was introduced into the system at a less secure airport. So not much will change IN THE US.

[west milly Tom]

Responsibility to what? Destroy the shit out of the Constitution? Every single one of the things you proposed is more at home in some bullshit banana republic. Go back to whatever horrible central American country you belong to.

You get uglier with every post. I will say though, that I respect you more than most. You don't try to mask what you are through the guise of political correctness ir fairness. You're unabashedly what you are. That being said, the destruction of our constitution has always been at the hands of your ilk. The purpose of the constitution was to protect the citizens, restrict national government, and specifically limit the powers thereof. If you remember your history class out country was originally intended to be a union of states. the men who wrote cthe document believed that the centralization of power was the key to totalitarianism and should be avoided at all costs.

The simple fact that you all skate around is that we are fighting a war right now against Islamic extremism. It exists in an organized way and, may I speculate, is much more dangerous than the threat of car accident. The state of things could have been better with Bush but they're worse now. Giving terrorists access to our legal system but denying that same access to SEALs who hunt terrorists is a fucking travesty. Ill never understand how anyone can say that terrorism is not an issue.

[TripleSkeet]

Now we're back to security. Ineffective? Yeah, in every case where someone slips through. So let's fix that.


Theres only so much you can do. Especially if that person is willing to take themselves out with you. The truth is if someone is willing to kill themselves to blow up a building, there really is nothing that can be done about it. If I knew how to build a bomb and didnt mind killing myself, I could blow up Independance Hall, Phillys City Hall, or the Liberty Bell tomorrow. I could also blow up just about any crowd I wanted to. And there isnt a god damn thing they can do about it.

I will gladly give you the addresses of TEN people I know killed by MUSLIMS!!!!!!

PM me...I will give you there addresses and you all can spit in their faces and tell em muslim is a nice religion.


How can I spit in their faces if theyve already been killed by muslims? :blink:

[Syd]

You get uglier with every post. I will say though, that I respect you more than most. You don't try to mask what you are through the guise of political correctness ir fairness. You're unabashedly what you are. That being said, the destruction of our constitution has always been at the hands of your ilk. The purpose of the constitution was to protect the citizens, restrict national government, and specifically limit the powers thereof. If you remember your history class out country was originally intended to be a union of states. the men who wrote cthe document believed that the centralization of power was the key to totalitarianism and should be avoided at all costs.

and I don't disagree with you there. I sometimes wish the Shays Rebellion had been more successful or that the North had lost during the Civil War. The outcomes of both led to a democracy becoming more and more like a republic run by the elite.

The simple fact that you all skate around is that we are fighting a war right now against Islamic extremism. It exists in an organized way and, may I speculate, is much more dangerous than the threat of car accident.

40,000+ people die each year from a car accident. Statistically speaking it's a safe bet that anyone in this thread will die from a car accident, of any possible cause of death -- not just terrorism. I'd consider that to be an extreme threat. The reality of the situation is that terrorism and the threat thereof isn't. There are other things to be concerned about dying from. That and we should be honestly concerned with the size and scope of government. There's no reason we need to be giving up our rights because there's an outside chance of a terrorist attacking us. This goes on to the next point: we're a nation of law and there's no point in us being dragged down to the level of totalitarians and theocracies that are attempting to bring us down.

The state of things could have been better with Bush but they're worse now. Giving terrorists access to our legal system but denying that same access to SEALs who hunt terrorists is a fucking travesty. Ill never understand how anyone can say that terrorism is not an issue.

Yeah, things were SO much better under Bush. There wasn't anyone using the USPS as their personal anthrax delivery system and there sure as shit wasn't anyone driving around randomly murdering people in the DC metro area. Boy, the change he instituted stopped any and all terrorism.

edit:
to lighten the thread up here's the Eagles mascot eating it badly
http://i48.tinypic.com/v8kn7s.jpg

[opie's twisted balls]

you understand that those articles involve flight bound for the US, and not IN the US, as I stated, right?

the TSA already looks for this kind of attack, but of course this guy was introduced into the system at a less secure airport. So not much will change IN THE US.
Yes I realize that the current "enhancements" to pre-flight security have been made for US bound flights. That said I'd be surprised if once the current holiday travel season is over the same changes weren't also implemented for domestic flights.

As for the TSA already looking for this?? In the past two years of ~40 US domestic flights and another dozen or so international flights originating in the US I can only think of twice where my carry on bags were hand checked and thats only after I was selected for secondary screening. The standard screening doesn't include all carry on bags being hand searched and doesn't include all passengers being patted down.

[NewYorkDragons80]

Doesn't the failure of this attack prove that the liquid ban is bullshit?

[west milly Tom]

on the way to work this morning I heard Janet Napalitano clips where she says the system worked perfectly.

What a lying sack of shit. The guy boarded in Amsterdam with no passport, no luggage, while on a terrorist watch list, carrying explosives. What part of the system worked right? And where is His Holiness? I guess he's to busy in Hawaii.

[LordJezo]

So anyway, might have been mentioned here but if not.

This mother fucker has made it even more of a pain in the ass to fly. On the flight home yesterday evening we were all made aware of yet another rule "to keep everyone safe". For the final hour of all US bound international flights you must remain in your seat, turn off all electronic devices, and remove everything from your lap. No moving about. If you get up then security will have to deal with you. Whatever that means.

Me "Um, can I read a book? It's not in my lap if I hold it out"

Stewardess "Well, I don't know. I guess that would be okay"

Bah.

When the announcement was made everyone first looked around in shock and then everyone jumped up to go to the bathroom.

[Kublakhan61]

on the way to work this morning I heard Janet Napalitano clips where she says the system worked perfectly.

What a lying sack of shit. The guy boarded in Amsterdam with no passport, no luggage, while on a terrorist watch list, carrying explosives. What part of the system worked right? And where is His Holiness? I guess he's to busy in Hawaii.

What's the Dalai Lama have to do with this??

Really though, what do you want from Obama on this? All he can do is say a few words. It's too late to prevent this particular event. The problem with airline security is that it is a repetitive and thankless job. Those doing it regard it as such - they do not think all day, everyday that they are ensuring the safety of the US citizen. Have you flown from JFK or LGA recently? Those jokers do not give a shit about that job, beyond it being a steady job.

[west milly Tom]

What's the Dalai Lama have to do with this??

Really though, what do you want from Obama on this? All he can do is say a few words. It's too late to prevent this particular event. The problem with airline security is that it is a repetitive and thankless job. Those doing it regard it as such - they do not think all day, everyday that they are ensuring the safety of the US citizen. Have you flown from JFK or LGA recently? Those jokers do not give a shit about that job, beyond it being a steady job.

Agreed. Let's be honest though. Who works that job? There is no incentive to perform. I wonder what their entry level hourly wage is. On the other hand have you ever flown into or out of Israel? That's the kind of security we need for all US bound flights.

[A.J.]

So anyway, might have been mentioned here but if not.

This mother fucker has made it even more of a pain in the ass to fly. On the flight home yesterday evening we were all made aware of yet another rule "to keep everyone safe". For the final hour of all US bound international flights you must remain in your seat, turn off all electronic devices, and remove everything from your lap. No moving about. If you get up then security will have to deal with you. Whatever that means.

Me "Um, can I read a book? It's not in my lap if I hold it out"

Stewardess "Well, I don't know. I guess that would be okay"

Bah.

When the announcement was made everyone first looked around in shock and then everyone jumped up to go to the bathroom.

Cavity searches will be next. I'm serious.

I fucking hate flying back to the States or on U.S. carriers. I hope someone pisses or shits their seat to show how utterly ridiculous this policy is.

[Kublakhan61]

Agreed. Let's be honest though. Who works that job? There is no incentive to perform. I wonder what their entry level hourly wage is. On the other hand have you ever flown into or out of Israel? That's the kind of security we need for all US bound flights.

Right, the incentive is keeping the world safe - but after a few months of the same boring grind the whole notion of protecting the US from an attack sort of goes by the wayside, especially if there isn't an attack for a long period of time. I'd guess they make about $15/hr.
I'm beginning to think we need a rotating system for the people who work those positions - you can't stay on longer then 3-6 months.

[Ritalin]

Or, just go to the full body scanners.

[Dude!]

on the way to work this morning I heard Janet Napalitano clips where she says the system worked perfectly.

What a lying sack of shit. The guy boarded in Amsterdam with no passport, no luggage, while on a terrorist watch list, carrying explosives. What part of the system worked right? And where is His Holiness? I guess he's to busy in Hawaii.

that creepy dyke
is in waaaaaay over her head

that's probably exactly the way
obama wants it....
very ineffective homeland security
and immigration control
so his islamic buddies can
over-run the US unchecked

[LordJezo]

Recommendation now is to check in 4 hours before your flight

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20091227/ts_alt_afp/usattacksnigeriaairporttravel_20091227214321

Oy.

This is all part of the plot to keep people from leaving their own country, we are slowly becoming slaves to our government. They can't just come out and ban us from leaving so they are doing all that they can to make it hard for us.

[furie]

Yes I realize that the current "enhancements" to pre-flight security have been made for US bound flights. That said I'd be surprised if once the current holiday travel season is over the same changes weren't also implemented for domestic flights.

As for the TSA already looking for this?? In the past two years of ~40 US domestic flights and another dozen or so international flights originating in the US I can only think of twice where my carry on bags were hand checked and thats only after I was selected for secondary screening. The standard screening doesn't include all carry on bags being hand searched and doesn't include all passengers being patted down.

the current screening doesn't include all bags being searched because the new x-ray units that were rolled out two years ago are more than simple x-ray scanners.
they also look for liquids and powders based on the density of the object. and based on that density they can determine (usually) the difference between rdx, gun power, or plain old baby powder. sometimes it can't which is why they do the hand search, when the unit and the operator can't tell what the item is.

it can't tell the difference in liquids yet, which is why everything including water is still banned.

[Ritalin]

on the way to work this morning I heard Janet Napalitano clips where she says the system worked perfectly.

What a lying sack of shit. The guy boarded in Amsterdam with no passport, no luggage, while on a terrorist watch list, carrying explosives. What part of the system worked right? And where is His Holiness? I guess he's to busy in Hawaii.



yeah, that Napolitano clip pisses me off, too. At the very least we should be able to make the security measures we already have at our disposal
work, and when they don't we need to be honest about it and fix it. She's got to go.

[west milly Tom]

yeah, that Napolitano clip pisses me off, too. At the very least we should be able to make the security measures we already have at our disposal
work, and when they don't we need to be honest about it and fix it. She's got to go.


in the latest idiot news story of the day Napalitano remarks that her statements Sunday were "taken out of context". Lol.

[SonOfSmeagol]

in the latest idiot news story of the day Napalitano remarks that her statements Sunday were "taken out of context". Lol.

Yes, she clarified, no shit, that all the portions of the system that didn't break worked just fine.

[epo]

that creepy dyke
is in waaaaaay over her head

that's probably exactly the way
obama wants it....
very ineffective homeland security
and immigration control
so his islamic buddies can
over-run the US unchecked

GOP blame at TSA? (http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/1209/GOP_blame_at_TSA.html#)

As Republicans seek to put the blame for the widespread perception of ineptness at the Transportation Security Administration on the Obama administration, Democrats are arguing that Republican legislators bear part of the blame and that they're politically vulnerable on the subject.

Perhaps the largest impediment to change at the agency: South Carolina Republican Sen. Jim DeMint has a hold on the appointment of a TSA chief, over his concern that the new administration could allow security screeners to unionize.

Republicans have cast votes against the key TSA funding measure that the 2010 appropriations bill for the Department of Homeland Security contained, which included funding for the TSA, including for explosives detection systems and other aviation security measures.

We can all play the blame game....

[angrymissy]

Wouldn't the screeners in Amsterdam be the ones responsible for letting him on the plane, not our TSA?

[west milly Tom]

GOP blame at TSA? (http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/1209/GOP_blame_at_TSA.html#)



We can all play the blame game....



Nice try. From the same article:

"UPDATE: DeMint spokesman Wesley Denton responds:

Democrats have only themselves to blame for not having a confirmed TSA administrator. [
b Obama waited 243 days in office before making a nomination and Harry Reid has been too busy trading earmarks for votes on health care to schedule debate on the nominee. This is an important debate because many Americans don't want someone running the TSA who stands ready to give union bosses the power to veto or delay future security measures at our airports."

243.

[epo]

Nice try. From the same article:

"UPDATE: DeMint spokesman Wesley Denton responds:

Democrats have only themselves to blame for not having a confirmed TSA administrator. [
b Obama waited 243 days in office before making a nomination and Harry Reid has been too busy trading earmarks for votes on health care to schedule debate on the nominee. This is an important debate because many Americans don't want someone running the TSA who stands ready to give union bosses the power to veto or delay future security measures at our airports."

243.

Wow...a spokesperson!

[epo]

Wouldn't the screeners in Amsterdam be the ones responsible for letting him on the plane, not our TSA?

^^^^^^^^ This.

[west milly Tom]

Wow...a spokesperson!


What was accomplished during the first 243 days? Oh I remember a lot of apologizing for America, accepting awards, traveling all over the globe.

[epo]

What was accomplished during the first 243 days? Oh I remember a lot of apologizing for America, accepting awards, traveling all over the globe.

Talk all the shit you want, but DeMint's crack spokesperson has no answer for this:

Quiet GOP tactic stalls top Obama appointments (http://washingtontimes.com/news/2009/nov/29/quiet-gop-tactic-stalls-obama-picks/)

Sen. Jim DeMint has locked a "hold" on President Obama's pick to head the Transportation Security Administration over concerns the nominee would undermine safety by allowing airport security screeners to unionize, the latest in a series of appointments stymied by Republican objections that are increasingly frustrating the Senate's Democratic majority.

The South Carolina Republican single-handedly put the brakes on the nomination with a "hold" - an informal practice by which a senator can keep a nomination or legislation from going to the Senate floor. It is virtually the only weapon left in the minority's arsenal to affect the chamber's business now that Republicans don't have enough votes in their caucus to mount a filibuster on their own.

Of course, why let the truth get in the way of a good talking point?

[angrymissy]

Presidents do usually have to travel around the Globe... it's kind of part of their job.

[foodcourtdruide]

Presidents do usually have to travel around the Globe... it's kind of part of their job.

Did you hear Obama had the nerve to be with his family on Christmas when this happened? If that was Bush the media would have destroyed him, because every president before Obama has spent Christmas working a 16-hour shift in the White House.

[west milly Tom]

Listening to the Obama about it now.

[west milly Tom]

Presidents do usually have to travel around the Globe... it's kind of part of their job.



True but typically they accomlish something with their trips. China nothing, Europe nothing, Copenhagen Olympics nothing, Copenhagen Climate nothing.

But I digress, Obama said in his speech just now that they will review the incident. I feel safer already.

[Dude!]

I feel safer already.

you should
after all,
the system worked

[hanso]

True but typically they accomlish something with their trips. China nothing, Europe nothing, Copenhagen Olympics nothing, Copenhagen Climate nothing.

But I digress, Obama said in his speech just now that they will review the incident. I feel safer already.

Typically??? Give an example of one of these resent Presidential trips that accomplished something please.

Obama must be watching CNN they won't let this story rest.

[SonOfSmeagol]

Talk all the shit you want, but DeMint's crack spokesperson has no answer for this:

Quiet GOP tactic stalls top Obama appointments (http://washingtontimes.com/news/2009/nov/29/quiet-gop-tactic-stalls-obama-picks/)

Of course, why let the truth get in the way of a good talking point?

So what? Where's YOUR truth in confronting the party, administration, and leaders that are actually responsible for running this government function and are now wholly accountable for its actions? Your argument, still weak, would have somewhat more credibility had you also taken a look at who's actually answerable to the incident. Instead you paw meekly at minority party straws.

[Tall_James]

Mafia.

[epo]

So what? Where's YOUR truth in confronting the party, administration, and leaders that are actually responsible for running this government function and are now wholly accountable for its actions? Your argument, still weak, would have somewhat more credibility had you also taken a look at who's actually answerable to the incident. Instead you paw meekly at minority party straws.

You mean the people working the gate in Amsterdam.

[Jughead]

Xmas makes a lot of sense to me ....I thought about it happening like we have for almost 8 years now at every major event or christian holiday. I have not checked out the all the post in this thread yet.. And my wife has been very sick( Better now) to keep up with the news but I do on a daily basis ...My gut feeling is this was real and we as a nation have forgotten like we said we would never do.....

[SonOfSmeagol]

You mean the people working the gate in Amsterdam.

DHS has the responsibility for monitoring, testing, and assuring that accepted security measures are met for flights in-bound to the US, most especially for US carriers.

[Ritalin]

You mean the people working the gate in Amsterdam.

no, Epo. I usually agree with you, but this is a failure at Homeland security. It's just the truth. I wish people would be less partisan when it comes to security. Both sides of the aisle.

[furie]

DHS has the responsibility for monitoring, testing, and assuring that accepted security measures are met for flights in-bound to the US, most especially for US carriers such as AA.

Umm, yes and no.
DHS does not have the legal authority to test security outside of the US. Just as foreign governments can not test security here. Monitoring? yes. DHS does set the standards that screening for inbound flights are to be met. but enforcing those standards is difficult.

[TripleSkeet]

My gut feeling is this was real and we as a nation have forgotten like we said we would never do.....

Forgotten what??? What do you want us to do? Strip search every person that gets on every flight?

Maybe you were one of the people that drank the kool aid and believed we could actually stop terrorism., but guess what? You cannot stop a person from comitting suicide and taking people with them. Its fucking impossible. But American people dont want to hear the truth. They need to be spoonfed bullshit so that they can believe we are safe. Like some fucking child believing the tooth fairy is going to take his tooth and leave him some money for it.

There were a few hundred people at risk in this incident. Why is it more important to save a couple hundred people on a plane then say....at a parade? If someone walks into a crowd of people at a parade and has a bomb strapped to his chest, guess what? Those people are dead. You cant stop it. Just accept that fact and pray you and your loved ones arent one of the unlucky ones to be around one of these guys when they decide to hit the switch.

[angrymissy]

Umm, yes and no.
DHS does not have the legal authority to test security outside of the US. Just as foreign governments can not test security here. Monitoring? yes. DHS does set the standards that screening for inbound flights are to be met. but enforcing those standards is difficult.

^
|

Furie knows more than any of us do.

[angrymissy]

Did you hear Obama had the nerve to be with his family on Christmas when this happened? If that was Bush the media would have destroyed him, because every president before Obama has spent Christmas working a 16-hour shift in the White House.

And the nerve to visit the troops in HI on Christmas while he was there! How dare he!

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2009/12/27/us/27memo_CA0/popup.jpg

[Dude!]

i wish mojo pin was around
so he could change the title
of this thread

the perp is not a terrorist
that term has been banned
by obama and napolitano

this was a 'man-caused disaster'
not an act of terror
and the perp is, therefore,
a 'man-caused disaster instigator'
and not a terrorist

[Ritalin]

i wish mojo pin was around
so he could change the title
of this thread

the perp is not a terrorist
that term has been banned
by obama and napolitano

this was a 'man-caused disaster'
not an act of terror
and the perp is, therefore,
a 'man-caused disaster instigator'
and not a terrorist

yawn

[keithy_19]

And the nerve to visit the troops in HI on Christmas while he was there! How dare he!

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2009/12/27/us/27memo_CA0/popup.jpg

It would be more badass if he visited the troops in Afghanistan on Christmas.

[sr71blackbird]

I have heard it suggested that since a few of these terrorists are of the same ethnic background, that they should consider that their ethnic background might be a give away as to possible future terrorist attack people.
I suggest that since all of them are also male, that the gender and ethnic attributes be eliminated from any profile, because these traits make it too easy to detect a would be terrorist.

[epo]

I have heard it suggested that since a few of these terrorists are of the same ethnic background, that they should consider that their ethnic background might be a give away as to possible future terrorist attack people.
I suggest that since all of them are also male, that the gender and ethnic attributes be eliminated from any profile, because these traits make it too easy to detect a would be terrorist.

So you are saying we should look at Muslim males?

That's only approximately 1/8th of the worlds population. That should be easy enough.

[sr71blackbird]

No no, I'm saying we should not look at them. We should only concentrate on blonde blue eyed women.

[hanso]

What do you want us to do? Strip search every person that gets on every flight?


We should only concentrate on blonde blue eyed women.

And take pics

[Kublakhan61]

Forgotten what??? What do you want us to do? Strip search every person that gets on every flight?

Maybe you were one of the people that drank the kool aid and believed we could actually stop terrorism., but guess what? You cannot stop a person from comitting suicide and taking people with them. Its fucking impossible. But American people dont want to hear the truth. They need to be spoonfed bullshit so that they can believe we are safe. Like some fucking child believing the tooth fairy is going to take his tooth and leave him some money for it.

There were a few hundred people at risk in this incident. Why is it more important to save a couple hundred people on a plane then say....at a parade? If someone walks into a crowd of people at a parade and has a bomb strapped to his chest, guess what? Those people are dead. You cant stop it. Just accept that fact and pray you and your loved ones arent one of the unlucky ones to be around one of these guys when they decide to hit the switch.

Well, I think the problem is that we failed at stopping a potential act of terror, that you and I cannot bring a bottle of water on the plane, yet this man brought explosives on with him. We can't have a lighter, he got explosives on the plane. You've side stepped the whole issue to rant about American's and your own superiority.

This isn't about trying to stop someone from committing suicide and hurting those around them, its about the airline industry doing what they claim to be doing - searching passengers. If you're going to search me, and you're going to pat me down, and make me toss my SEALED bottle of water, and run my name through a lost of potential terrorists - then be sure to get the guy who is bringing explosives on the plane.

A parade is a poor comparison. You know that. You're just too angry all the time to stop and think before posting. Yes, that is personal but read over your post. You read like a maniac.

We have forgotten. We'd rather not wait 'forever' to board a plane. We regard increased security as a hassle. Our security officers are bored want to go home. We are rude to them for bothering to attempt enforcing safety regulations. They have forgotten because we have forgotten.

[west milly Tom]

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2009/12/two_bomb_airplane_plotters_rel.html

Turns out the plotters of this attack were released from Gitmo in November. They did have some art therapy before being freed though. Jeeze.

[A.J.]

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2009/12/two_bomb_airplane_plotters_rel.html

Turns out the plotters of this attack were released from Gitmo in November. They did have some art therapy before being freed though. Jeeze.

Repeat offenders: just like our own criminal justice system!

[foodcourtdruide]

The "well-dressed man" thing is totally bizarre. I really don't believe in conspiracy theories, but what the fuck what the fuck!!??!

http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/index.ssf/2009/12/flight_253_passenger_says_at_l.html

[A.J.]

The "well-dressed man" thing is totally bizarre. I really don't believe in conspiracy theories, but what the fuck what the fuck!!??!

http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/index.ssf/2009/12/flight_253_passenger_says_at_l.html

Flight 253 passenger: Sharp-dressed man aided terror suspect Umar Farouk Abdul Mutallab onto plane without passport

Fucking ZZ Top....

[foodcourtdruide]

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2009/12/two_bomb_airplane_plotters_rel.html

Turns out the plotters of this attack were released from Gitmo in November. They did have some art therapy before being freed though. Jeeze.

Just to clarify, they were released in November, 2007. If anything, this proves how ineffective Gitmo was.

[underdog]

Just to clarify, they were released in November, 2007. If anything, this proves how ineffective Gitmo was.

It's much more misleading and easier to blame Obama if you just say "November", though.

[foodcourtdruide]

It's much more misleading and easier to blame Obama if you just say "November", though.

I was wondering why this story wasn't on a loop on foxnews.

[angrymissy]

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2009/12/two_bomb_airplane_plotters_rel.html

Turns out the plotters of this attack were released from Gitmo in November. They did have some art therapy before being freed though. Jeeze.

November of 2007. They were released by Bush Admin.

[Ritalin]

November of 2007. They were released by Bush Admin.

face

[underdog]

Just to clarify, they were released in November, 2007. If anything, this proves how ineffective Gitmo was.

November of 2007. They were released by Bush Admin.

face

No one can see you but me, foodcourtdruide.

[Ritalin]

No one can see you but me, foodcourtdruide.


face

[EliSnow]

It's much more misleading and easier to blame Obama if you just say "November", though.

Did you forget that Obama was an anti-constitutionalist in college?




Apparently, WMT's reporting skills haven't gotten any better.

[west milly Tom]

Yea wasn't trying to mislead anyone. It was the Bush Administration that shit the bed on this one.

[west milly Tom]

Did you forget that Obama was an anti-constitutionalist in college?




Apparently, WMT's reporting skills haven't gotten any better.

He still is. Everything he has done has been totally unconstitutional. He's a Socialist plain and simple. The paper hoax was one thing but his track record speaks for itself.

[EliSnow]

He still is. Everything he has done has been totally unconstitutional. He's a Socialist plain and simple. The paper hoax was one thing but his track record speaks for itself.

Again, your reading comprehension skills stinks.

I said in college. You have no evidence that he was an anti-constitutionalist in college.

And your arguments about him being a Socialist have always been full of crap.

He has not sought to rid the US of free market or capitalist system.

[Pittsburgh]

Again, your reading comprehension skills stinks.

I said in college. You have no evidence that he was an anti-constitutionalist in college.

And your arguments about him being a Socialist have always been full of crap.

He has not sought to rid the US of free market or capitalist system.

I agree. Speaking as a Socialist, Obama is no friend of mine so far.

[angrymissy]

He still is. Everything he has done has been totally unconstitutional. He's a Socialist plain and simple. The paper hoax was one thing but his track record speaks for itself.

I'm a little confused because a few pages back you claimed that Obama has accomplished nothing...

Can you explain what he has done that is unconstitutional?

Can you explain exactly what Socialism is and what Socialist policies he has implemented?

Thanks.

[foodcourtdruide]

No one can see you but me, foodcourtdruide.

No one but underdog will read this.

[angrymissy]

No one but underdog will read this.

I am too mesmerized by his Cat Albert avatar to see it

[Furtherman]

Yea wasn't trying to mislead anyone.

That's good.

He still is. Everything he has done has been totally unconstitutional. He's a Socialist plain and simple. The paper hoax was one thing but his track record speaks for itself.

Wait... but... that's.... misleading.

I'm a little confused because a few pages back you claimed that Obama has accomplished nothing...

Can you explain what he has done that is unconstitutional?

Can you explain exactly what Socialism is and what Socialist policies he has implemented?

Thanks.

I so wish we would get an answer. Why do you continue to tease with valid questions?!?!

[EliSnow]

Everything he has done has been totally unconstitutional.

Everything, huh?

So selecting Cabinet members was a violation of Article II of the Constitution which gives him that right?

Making military decisions about the conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan were violations of Article II of the Constitution which make him Commander in Chief?

I could go on and on, but so far, you haven't identified one action that was unconstitutional and why.

[Furtherman]

If you're going to read blogs like the "american thinker" (nice logo too - Uncle Sam, thinking, looks soooo serious), you're going to have these misguided notions.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I'm a little confused because a few pages back you claimed that Obama has accomplished nothing...

Can you explain what he has done that is unconstitutional?

Can you explain exactly what Socialism is and what Socialist policies he has implemented?

Thanks.

Obama is not a socialist, he does not ride mass transit, send his kids to public school, he doesnt live in Public Housing (yes the Whitehouse is technically) but you get the point

[EliSnow]

Obama is not a socialist, he does not ride mass transit, send his kids to public school, he doesnt live in Public Housing (yes the Whitehouse is technically) but you get the point

Actually, I don't.

If living in the White House or any residence paid for by the government, then every President is a socialist.

In fact, the above would be true of all Presidents and most politicians.

Given that, it streches to the terms "socialist" beyond what is being meant, as people call Obama to differentiate him from conservatives and other politicians.

[Syd]

He has not sought to rid the US of free market or capitalist system.

It's been quite the opposite. Obama has been one of the most fervent supporters of private, completely free market enterprises (at least at international corporate level)

[west milly Tom]

Everything, huh?

So selecting Cabinet members was a violation of Article II of the Constitution which gives him that right?

Making military decisions about the conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan were violations of Article II of the Constitution which make him Commander in Chief?

I could go on and on, but so far, you haven't identified one action that was unconstitutional and why.

one: the signing of an executive order this weekend giving interpol, a foreign police force, full diplomatic immunity. Clearly a violation of 4.

[EliSnow]

And BTW, living in the White House is not the same as living in public housing.

First, it's considered part of the President's compensation.

Second, it helps him do his job that he essentially lives where his office is.

So, it's all tied to his job as President.

[west milly Tom]

It's been quite the opposite. Obama has been one of the most fervent supporters of private, completely free market enterprises (at least at international corporate level)

Agreed his big business policies have been very pro market.

[sailor]

Actually, I don't.

If living in the White House or any residence paid for by the government, then every President is a socialist.

In fact, the above would be true of all Presidents and most politicians.


Given that, it streches to the terms "socialist" beyond what is being meant, as people call Obama to differentiate him from conservatives and other politicians.

I think you missed a few nots and got his point backwards.

[hanso]

Obama took heat for selecting Cabinet members that are from the right.
Does this somehow make those members selected Socialists as well?

[EliSnow]

I think you missed a few nots and got his point backwards.

Very possibly, because I'm not seeing how the stuff he points out makes Obama a socialist or not a socialist.

And I assume the "not" was sarcasm, but I could be wrong.

[EliSnow]

Agreed his big business policies have been very pro market.

Then, how can he be a "Socialist plain and simple?"

[angrymissy]

one: the signing of an executive order this weekend giving interpol, a foreign police force, full diplomatic immunity. Clearly a violation of 4.

You do realize that Interpol is not a foreign police force, right?

Interpol is an organization that ASSISTS law enforcement in whatever country they are operating within. The people actually doing the work and making the arrests in said countries are the law enforcement agency of that country.

Obama amended the order that Reagan put in place, removing Interpol from facing taxes or administrative constraints. Interpol cannot arrest you. Interpol cannot seize your belongings.

It's not like it is in the movies.

[west milly Tom]

Then, how can he be a "Socialist plain and simple?"



Its all part of the larger agenda, phase one of the take over of the free market. his core belief is that profit is bad and unfair. Some legislation he's championing is clear redistribution of wealth in action.

[EliSnow]

one: the signing of an executive order this weekend giving interpol, a foreign police force, full diplomatic immunity. Clearly a violation of 4.

What's "4?"

[hanso]

WMT can't come up with one Presidential trip that accomplished something?

You did say Typically so I added recent.

[EliSnow]

Its all part of the larger agenda, phase one of the take over of the free market. his core belief is that profit is bad and unfair. Some legislation he's championing is clear redistribution of wealth in action.

But as you agreed, he's been Pro-Market.

If he wanted to take over the free market, he would have let it get as bad as it could, so that it would be easier to take over. Making it stronger does not help.

This is just idiocy.

[Furtherman]

We're in phase one of the grand scheme! How villainous!

[EliSnow]

From the Order:

By this EO, Obama has conferred diplomatic immunity upon INTERPOL, exemption from being subject to search and seizure by law enforcement, exemption from US taxes, and immunity from FOIA requests, etc.
Obama just declared INTERPOL records immune from search and seizure -- "The archives of international organizations shall be inviolable."

This is what the order does.

Assuming "4" meant the Fourth Amendment, this clearly does not give Interpol the right search anyone's home without probable cause or a warrent.

[angrymissy]

From the Order:

This is what the order does.

Assuming "4" meant the Fourth Amendment, this clearly does not give Interpol the right search anyone's home without probable cause or a warrent.


But that's not what the blog said! Or the chain email! Or HANNITY!!!

[EliSnow]

But that's not what the blog said! Or the chain email! Or HANNITY!!!

Even some of those types of news sources are clear on this:

From the New American (http://www.thenewamerican.com/index.php/usnews/politics/2649-obama-executive-order-on-interpol-gives-fatcats-full-tax-exemption), which is a conservative source.

The executive order also notes that Interpol employees and their property “shall be immune from search, unless such immunity be expressly waived, and from confiscation. The archives of international organizations shall be inviolable.”

The latter provision has caused some alarm on the Internet, where many have feared Interpol — which is a law-enforcement agency — would be given more authority to operate in the United States. However, this executive order does nothing to change the authority of Interpol to operate in the United States, except to exempt them from taxes and searches.


So, saying that this order is "clearly" a violation of the 4th Amendment is another ridiculous statement based upon nothing but fear-mongering on the internet.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Actually, I don't.

If living in the White House or any residence paid for by the government, then every President is a socialist.

In fact, the above would be true of all Presidents and most politicians.

Given that, it streches to the terms "socialist" beyond what is being meant, as people call Obama to differentiate him from conservatives and other politicians.

Some socialist, hes in beautiful weather while we are all freezing over here

[EliSnow]

Some socialist, hes in beautiful weather while we are all freezing over here

Now that point I'm getting.

[Dude!]

But that's not what the blog said! Or the chain email! Or HANNITY!!!

whose puppet are you?

[angrymissy]

Even some of those types of news sources are clear on this:

From the New American (http://www.thenewamerican.com/index.php/usnews/politics/2649-obama-executive-order-on-interpol-gives-fatcats-full-tax-exemption), which is a conservative source.

So, saying that this order is "clearly" a violation of the 4th Amendment is another ridiculous statement based upon nothing but fear-mongering on the internet.


What I did when I heard about this was:

Look up Obama's Amendment
Look up the original order
Look up the sections that were being Amended
Look up Interpol and what they do

And it was then pretty damned easy to figure out what was going on. It's all freely available on the Internet if you don't need your opinions spoon fed to you.

[angrymissy]

whose puppet are you?

I don't read left blogs, I don't watch MSNBC, I don't believe ANY email I get. I only watch cable news if I'm flipping around the dial and when I'm stuck in my doctors office waiting room.

As I stated above, I research the facts to come up with my own opinion on the matter. In doing so, you can find that the statement regarding the Executive Order was bunk.

I did see this whole schpeil passed around in emails and on other forums recently... and it comes from a chain email and a bunch of alarmist, uniformed blogs.

[underdog]

whose puppet are you?

Cat Albert's.

[angrymissy]

Cat Albert's.

I love him.

[hanso]

PSSSttt try Nixon to China

[disneyspy]

PSSSttt try Nixon to China

or carter to the mideast,oh wait,its still messed up over there

[EliSnow]

What I did when I heard about this was:

Look up Obama's Amendment
Look up the original order
Look up the sections that were being Amended
Look up Interpol and what they do

And it was then pretty damned easy to figure out what was going on. It's all freely available on the Internet if you don't need your opinions spoon fed to you.

But Missy, you're asking people to actually think and not blindly believe things they read because they want those things to be true.

That's too much work.

[hanso]

or carter to the mideast,oh wait,its still messed up over there

That would count. It's hard to come up with recent sitting visits that amounted to anything.

[EliSnow]

That would count. It's hard to come up with recent sitting visits that amounted to anything.

Well, at least anything so visibly substantial. Sometimes these meetings accomplish minor goals that pay off later.

If a President is able to provide some type of personal credibility with other leaders in a personal meeting, that can pay off at some later date when we need something from the other leader.

[Syd]

Everything I disagree with is socialism