Chris Christie Walking the Walk

[Barnaby Jones]

I'm asking the question.

[underdog]

It's a question why teachers who are making 50, 60, 70, 80 thousand dollars a year having a absolute shit fit over being asked to kick in a little towards their healthcare.

Because no matter how much money you make, you never want to give any back.

[Dude!]

the head of the NJ teachers union
makes OVER HALF A MILLION DOLLARS
a year

oh yeah, he's in it for the kids
fuck him and fuck the union

selfish assholes

NJ...you are so lucky
to have that governor

[JPMNICK]

Because no matter how much money you make, you never want to give any back.

that about sums it up right there.

[underdog]

the head of the NJ teachers union
makes OVER HALF A MILLION DOLLARS
a year

oh yeah, he's in it for the kids
fuck him and fuck the union

selfish assholes

NJ...you are so lucky
to have that governor

So if you make a lot of money, you can't have any passion at what you're doing?

[Tenbatsuzen]

Because no matter how much money you make, you never want to give any back.

And this is why there is such a disconnect between the teachers and everyone else in NJ who actually pays for healthcare.

[underdog]

And this is why there is such a disconnect between the teachers and everyone else in NJ who actually pays for healthcare.

You think 50k a year is a lot of money. You have a disconnect from anything past 1974.

[underdog]

And this is why there is such a disconnect between the teachers and everyone else in NJ who actually pays for healthcare.

Also, how does this create a disconnect? NO ONE wants to give anything back. It just creates jealousy.

[underdog]

I don't even know why I'm arguing for NJ teachers. After all these years, you fucking idiots still can't even pump your own gas or drive in the correct lane. Fuck it, abolish schooling altogether in NJ because it's apparent that you retards can't learn a fucking thing.

[Dude!]

I don't even know why I'm arguing for NJ teachers. After all these years, you fucking idiots still can't even pump your own gas or drive in the correct lane. Fuck it, abolish schooling altogether in NJ because it's apparent that you retards can't learn a fucking thing.

you're the idiot

take your Deval Patrick
and shove him up your ass

[epo]

You think 50k a year is a lot of money. You have a disconnect from anything past 1974.

Its rather ironic that a message board that is complaining that a radio persona isn't making 50K, yet a teacher makes 50K and its a goddamned problem.

Our values as a nation are so fucked up.

[Tenbatsuzen]

I don't even know why I'm arguing for NJ teachers. After all these years, you fucking idiots still can't even pump your own gas or drive in the correct lane. Fuck it, abolish schooling altogether in NJ because it's apparent that you retards can't learn a fucking thing.

...you are the fucking idiots who re-elect Menino term after term.

[Tenbatsuzen]

Its rather ironic that a message board that is complaining that a radio persona isn't making 50K, yet a teacher makes 50K and its a goddamned problem.

Our values as a nation are so fucked up.

When the hell did I say 50k was a lot of money? I said 50k was a lot for someone starting out entry level.

[Tenbatsuzen]

Again, I ask this: What makes teachers so special that they don't have to pay for healthcare? And they get raises even if they do a shitty job.

Even if they are accused of molesting a student, they still get paid until conviction.

[JPMNICK]

Again, I ask this: What makes teachers so special that they don't have to pay for healthcare? And they get raises even if they do a shitty job.

Even if they are accused of molesting a student, they still get paid until conviction.

i start a new job thursday. good salary, 2 weeks vacation, i pay 30% of my health care they employer pays 60%. no clue what that is going to cost me per month.

[Tenbatsuzen]

i start a new job thursday. good salary, 2 weeks vacation, i pay 30% of my health care they employer pays 60%. no clue what that is going to cost me per month.

Wait, 30% co-pay or you pay 30% of the premium?

[JPMNICK]

Wait, 30% co-pay or you pay 30% of the premium?
premium that comes out per check I think, i will check again tommorow

i think it comes out to like 90 bucks a check or 180 a month, the total for the policy is 600 a month

[WRESTLINGFAN]

you're the idiot

take your Deval Patrick
and shove him up your ass

I'll take a Jersey accent over a Boston one any day

[A.J.]

Not really a question of what they should make. It's more of a question why every teacher, regardless of merit, gets a raise every year.

It's a question why teachers who are making 50, 60, 70, 80 thousand dollars a year having a absolute shit fit over being asked to kick in a little towards their healthcare.

Don't blame teachers. Blame teachers' unions.

EDIT: I can't believe I agree with Dude.

[Jujubees2]

Are the teachers negotiating a new contract or is Christie trying to amend the current contract? If he's trying to amend the current contract I can see that being a major problem with the teachers.

[underdog]

...you are the fucking idiots who re-elect Menino term after term.

I don't live in Boston.

I'll take a Jersey accent over a Boston one any day

They both sound retarded.

[Dude!]

EDIT: I can't believe I agree with Dude.

we're practically soul-mates

[Jujubees2]

we're practically soul-mates

Do you want us to leave you two alone?

[epo]

Are the teachers negotiating a new contract or is Christie trying to amend the current contract? If he's trying to amend the current contract I can see that being a major problem with the teachers.

Christie is trying to amend an existing contract and doing it in a public forum.

Shocker that the teachers don't wanna play. :wacko:

[Jujubees2]

Christie is trying to amend an existing contract and doing it in a public forum.

Shocker that the teachers don't wanna play. :wacko:

That's what I was getting at. They have a signed contract with the state and now the state wants to renegotiate. I would think any union would be upset with that.

[epo]

That's what I was getting at. They have a signed contract with the state and now the state wants to renegotiate. I would think any union would be upset with that.

They have a contract and he wants two things:

1. No pay raises for the year.
2. 1.5% of their salary to go for health insurance.

So essentially, they have a signed contract and he wants them to take a 1.5% salary cut.

[Tenbatsuzen]

That's what I was getting at. They have a signed contract with the state and now the state wants to renegotiate. I would think any union would be upset with that.

The reason why they are trying to renegotiate is because there's an 11 billion dollar budget gap and if the union doesn't renegotiate, teachers will lose their jobs.

So the NJEA drew a line in the sand, and basically spending millions to blast Christie, when it's their own damn fault.

[spoon]

The reason why they are trying to renegotiate is because there's an 11 billion dollar budget gap and if the union doesn't renegotiate, teachers will lose their jobs.

So the NJEA drew a line in the sand, and basically spending millions to blast Christie, when it's their own damn fault.

So fire some shitty teachers, see if I give two shits. Hell, there are plenty of them out there...even if the teachers aren't the reason this state is in the shitter. However, that contract should never be broken. It would set one HELL of a example in what not to do. It'd be one thing to sit at the table and come up with a compromise, it's another to rip up the thing in their faces without any legal standing.

[Tenbatsuzen]

So fire some shitty teachers, see if I give two shits. Hell, there are plenty of them out there...even if the teachers aren't the reason this state is in the shitter. However, that contract should never be broken. It would set one HELL of a example in what not to do. It'd be one thing to sit at the table and come up with a compromise, it's another to rip up the thing in their faces without any legal standing.

Christie's been trying to get them to come to the table, and the NJEA flat out refuses. Instead, the NJEA has been making commercials saying "THINK ABOUT YOUR CHILDREN!" And they aren't going to fire shitty teachers, they are going to fire the younger, cheaper teachers.

Christie even offered a suggestion to the NJEA that they suspend union dues for one year to pay in for health care and the NJEA lost their goddamn mind.

[Jujubees2]

The reason why they are trying to renegotiate is because there's an 11 billion dollar budget gap and if the union doesn't renegotiate, teachers will lose their jobs.

So the NJEA drew a line in the sand, and basically spending millions to blast Christie, when it's their own damn fault.

And if there was an $11 billion surplus and the teachers went to Christe for a riase he would say "sorry, we have a signed contract."

[WRESTLINGFAN]

And this is why teachers unions are despised. Yesterday 26 billion dollars were wasted to bail them and other public sector unions out.


http://www.postcrescent.com/article/20100811/APC0101/8110600/1004&located=rss

[Serpico1103]

And this is why teachers unions are despised. Yesterday 26 billion dollars were wasted to bail them and other public sector unions out.


http://www.postcrescent.com/article/20100811/APC0101/8110600/1004&located=rss

The school district spends 800K a year on Viagra? There are 10K teachers. Is everyone using it? How expensive is viagara? If 1% of the teachers (only older men) are using it, it comes to $8K a year for a Viagra prescription.
Unless I misread the article.
Doesn't this contradict your stance on Obamacare. This is the government telling people how their healthcare will be controlled. What prescription do they decide teachers don't need next? Slippery slope- fight socialism.

Unions are despised because people like you have no concept of where the country was headed when collective bargaining was not a protected right. Are they perfect, no. Are they a necessity, yes.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

The school district spends 800K a year on Viagra? There are 10K teachers. Is everyone using it? How expensive is viagara? If 1% of the teachers (only older men) are using it, it comes to $8K a year for a Viagra prescription.
Unless I misread the article.
Doesn't this contradict your stance on Obamacare. This is the government telling people how their healthcare will be controlled. What prescription do they decide teachers don't need next? Slippery slope- fight socialism.

Unions are despised because people like you have no concept of where the country was headed when collective bargaining was not a protected right. Are they perfect, no. Are they a necessity, yes.

Want to talk about greed and excess? Its the AFT/NEA


http://www.clearwatergazette.com/20100805/nea.html

If they would have come to the table and negotiated then there wouldnt be threats of layoffs. Instead they continue to strongarm the taxpayers and as a result they get even more taxpayer dollars. So youre bailing out a teacher 3000 miles away

Here's a teachers view of his union


http://www.ntui.org/news-releases/greedy-teachers-union-must-be-opposed

[Serpico1103]

Want to talk about greed and excess? Its the AFT/NEA


http://www.clearwatergazette.com/20100805/nea.html

If they would have come to the table and negotiated then there wouldnt be threats of layoffs. Instead they continue to strongarm the taxpayers and as a result they get even more taxpayer dollars. So youre bailing out a teacher 3000 miles away

Here's a teachers view of his union


http://www.ntui.org/news-releases/greedy-teachers-union-must-be-opposed

If the unions didn't "strong arm" during negotiations, the teachers wouldn't want the jobs that they are being laid off from.
Do I think unions have problems? Yes. Do I think that eliminating unions would create more problems? Yes.

You have the attitude that is something is broken, throw it out. How about fixing it.

The teacher you cite seeks reform. Which I have no problem with. He complains of double dipping- did the district think of this when negotiating?

If not for the protected right of collective bargaining we would have been a third world country or fell into a revolution that led to socialism. Real socialism, not Obama socialism.

[TripleSkeet]

I dont know about other states so Im just going to stick with NJ. The teachers union fucked the teachers and any that got laid off need to blame the fucking union, not the governor.

The governor put a deal on the table where they would have a pay freeze for ONE YEAR and would volunteer to pay 1.5% of their medical benefits. Thats what they would have had to agree on to avoid layoffs. They turned it the fuck down.

Who the fuck are they that they cant go one year without a raise? And they cant pay any of their health insurance? No fucking unions have that. Only them and they dont even want to give an inch to keep their fellow teachers employed. Fuck them. Chris Christie has got my support as long as hes in there. And this is from a guy that was originally pissed at him because he took away the home rebate for a year. But I realized that everybody has to sacrifice when your state is in trouble.

[TripleSkeet]

So fire some shitty teachers, see if I give two shits. Hell, there are plenty of them out there...even if the teachers aren't the reason this state is in the shitter. However, that contract should never be broken. It would set one HELL of a example in what not to do. It'd be one thing to sit at the table and come up with a compromise, it's another to rip up the thing in their faces without any legal standing.

Its not breaking a contract. Its renegotiating it to avoid layoffs. He basically told them if you dont want any layoffs, this is what we need. Instead the union fucked their own and left them jobless. The worst part is the "shitty" teachers arent the ones losing their jobs. Its the young ones, the ones starting their career, the ones that still care about the job and the kids that are getting laid off.

The scumbags that have tenure and couldnt care less about the kids as long as they keep getting their checks are the ones that are keeping their jobs. Believe me, I know plenty of teachers, 99% of the teachers I know are blaming the union for the layoffs.

[Serpico1103]

Its not breaking a contract. Its renegotiating it to avoid layoffs. He basically told them if you dont want any layoffs, this is what we need. Instead the union fucked their own and left them jobless. The worst part is the "shitty" teachers arent the ones losing their jobs. Its the young ones, the ones starting their career, the ones that still care about the job and the kids that are getting laid off.

The scumbags that have tenure and couldnt care less about the kids as long as they keep getting their checks are the ones that are keeping their jobs. Believe me, I know plenty of teachers, 99% of the teachers I know are blaming the union for the layoffs.

So, no matter what the deal was, as long as it avoided any lay offs, the union should accept it?
The union's job is protect the majority. Those poor junior teachers that got laid off, made a decision to join an organization that rewards seniority and protects the majority at the determent to the minority. Maybe they should have taken jobs at private schools.

[Dude!]

collective bargaining =
collective farms

[Serpico1103]

collective bargaining =
collective farms

collective bargaining = ?
collective farms = ?

[TripleSkeet]

So, no matter what the deal was, as long as it avoided any lay offs, the union should accept it?
The union's job is protect the majority. Those poor junior teachers that got laid off, made a decision to join an organization that rewards seniority and protects the majority at the determent to the minority. Maybe they should have taken jobs at private schools.

Maybe the union should realize that their sweet deal is a little unreasonable and tightening the belt JUST a little bit for the benefit of all is what they should do. The offer was more then fair.

I know guys in the electricians union that renegotiated their pay raises over the course of 3 years in order to avoid both layoffs. They took a little less then they were going to get for the good of their brethren.

Thats the problem with this country. Instead of trying to help everyone people are all about themselves. "ME ME ME. I cant go one fucking year without a raise! I dont want to pay a couple of dollars for my healthcare! I dont care if it puts people out of work! Fuck them! Its all about me and making sure I have more and more money!!!"

[Serpico1103]

Maybe the union should realize that their sweet deal is a little unreasonable and tightening the belt JUST a little bit for the benefit of all is what they should do. The offer was more then fair.

I know guys in the electricians union that renegotiated their pay raises over the course of 3 years in order to avoid both layoffs. They took a little less then they were going to get for the good of their brethren.

Thats the problem with this country. Instead of trying to help everyone people are all about themselves. "ME ME ME. I cant go one fucking year without a raise! I dont want to pay a couple of dollars for my healthcare! I dont care if it puts people out of work! Fuck them! Its all about me and making sure I have more and more money!!!"

The only problem with your argument is reality. The union officials are voted in by a majority. So it is a "we, we, we" attitude.
Again, if you are a teacher and don't want to be part of a union, because I understand unions have their drawbacks, teach in private school. Don't join a union and then scream that the union is screwing you by doing exactly what a union does.

[badmonkey]

When the people paying the taxes that pay your salary are getting pay freezes due to the shitty economy, you should probably shut the fuck up and accept your pay freeze as well.

[foodcourtdruide]

The only problem with your argument is reality. The union officials are voted in by a majority. So it is a "we, we, we" attitude.
Again, if you are a teacher and don't want to be part of a union, because I understand unions have their drawbacks, teach in private school. Don't join a union and then scream that the union is screwing you by doing exactly what a union does.

While I generally do favor the idea of unions, I don't like the idea of "if you don't want to be part of a union, teach in a private school." While union officials may be voted in by a majority, there are incredibly large problems with the opaqueness of union elections.

I always find the left and rights approach to unions incredibly annoying. The right wants them not to exist at all costs and the left wants to protect them at all costs, for their various personal gains. I think unions could be a fantastic thing, but they need great oversight and regulation. The possibility for corruption within unions is just too great.

[Serpico1103]

While I generally do favor the idea of unions, I don't like the idea of "if you don't want to be part of a union, teach in a private school." While union officials may be voted in by a majority, there are incredibly large problems with the opaqueness of union elections.

I always find the left and rights approach to unions incredibly annoying. The right wants them not to exist at all costs and the left wants to protect them at all costs, for their various personal gains. I think unions could be a fantastic thing, but they need great oversight and regulation. The possibility for corruption within unions is just too great.

I agree that unions like all large organizations, social, economic or political, need careful regulation.
When union boss abuse their power they should be dealt with swiftly. Just like politicians, e.g. Rangel. And corporations, e.g. Enron.
Corporations are empowered by the government. To deal with that and other imbalances of power, unions must be protected.
I think tenure shouldn't give you absolute protection, but some protection is necessary.

[spoon]

Its not breaking a contract. Its renegotiating it to avoid layoffs. He basically told them if you dont want any layoffs, this is what we need. Instead the union fucked their own and left them jobless. The worst part is the "shitty" teachers arent the ones losing their jobs. Its the young ones, the ones starting their career, the ones that still care about the job and the kids that are getting laid off.

The scumbags that have tenure and couldnt care less about the kids as long as they keep getting their checks are the ones that are keeping their jobs. Believe me, I know plenty of teachers, 99% of the teachers I know are blaming the union for the layoffs.

I HIGHLY doubt 99% of the teachers you know blame the union. I too know plenty of teachers, my sister being one and they aren't so clear cut on this issue as you like to put out there. There are a ton of shitty teachers out there, this is obvious, especially those old codgers playing it out to the very end collecting paychecks even though they haven't updated a lesson plan in years. These teachers shouldn't be protected as they often are. Not only are they the worst teachers, but they also collect the biggest paychecks and require the most from their healthcare plans.

I don't think teachers and the unions they represent should just bow down as Badmonkey so easily puts out there. There are many areas of our tax system, government and of course it's all tied to waste and profiteering in the end. I don't think the huge issue right now is teacher contracts as Christie wants us to think.

[Dude!]

I don't think the huge issue right now is teacher contracts as Christie wants us to think.

what is?

[epo]

I dont know about other states so Im just going to stick with NJ. The teachers union fucked the teachers and any that got laid off need to blame the fucking union, not the governor.

The governor put a deal on the table where they would have a pay freeze for ONE YEAR and would volunteer to pay 1.5% of their medical benefits. Thats what they would have had to agree on to avoid layoffs. They turned it the fuck down.

You are making a very large error in that you are applying your "success measurements" and not theirs to this story.

By assuming that their success is "keep all the jobs" you completely miss the boat on their strategies. You may disagree with that strategy, but you are not looking at the situation from their perspective at all.

A good union understands that for long-term sustainability, they must take some lumps for the overall good of its members. In this case they understand that the market bears a certain level of demand for teachers which doesn't really allow for massive layoffs and buckling to the political demands of the Governor would have only hurt their organization.

[spoon]

what is?

read the lines right before ur quoted section

[TripleSkeet]

You are making a very large error in that you are applying your "success measurements" and not theirs to this story.

By assuming that their success is "keep all the jobs" you completely miss the boat on their strategies. You may disagree with that strategy, but you are not looking at the situation from their perspective at all.

A good union understands that for long-term sustainability, they must take some lumps for the overall good of its members. In this case they understand that the market bears a certain level of demand for teachers which doesn't really allow for massive layoffs and buckling to the political demands of the Governor would have only hurt their organization.

I know about 30 or so teachers (Its amazing how many you meet working in the bar business). Half of them have been laid off. If theres no money they arent going to keep them. Period. They will do what every other big corporation does to save money. Lay the teachers off they need to, and just have the remaining teachers pick up the slack for the same pay.

The ones I talked all said originally they were pissed at the governor. I understood, I felt the same way when they first announced no home rebate. But after talking to other people and finding out what was offered and talking to people in other unions and seeing what they are going through, Im serious, just about every one of them said now they blame the union and all the old fuck teachers that dont do shit but coast for the reason they dont have a job.

Ive never really been big on unions. While they do serve a solid purpose in defending workers from unfair working conditions, I think they have just as many negatives when it comes to nepotism and internal politicing for themselves. Ive seen guys in unions like the sprinkler fitters, who bust their ass daily and get laid off while other kids come to work high off their ass on pills, pot, and worse get to keep their jobs because their dad or uncle also happens to be in the union and has been there for a long time.

Youre fucked either way. The only smart way to work anymore is to work for yourself.

[Serpico1103]

I know about 30 or so teachers (Its amazing how many you meet working in the bar business). Half of them have been laid off. If theres no money they arent going to keep them. Period. They will do what every other big corporation does to save money. Lay the teachers off they need to, and just have the remaining teachers pick up the slack for the same pay.

The ones I talked all said originally they were pissed at the governor. I understood, I felt the same way when they first announced no home rebate. But after talking to other people and finding out what was offered and talking to people in other unions and seeing what they are going through, Im serious, just about every one of them said now they blame the union and all the old fuck teachers that dont do shit but coast for the reason they dont have a job.



A union wants as many members as possible. The more members, the more power they have. Also, more dues to embezzle.
The union needs to think long term for the benefit of the union as a whole. Not, what will benefit some junior teachers right now.

[TripleSkeet]

A union wants as many members as possible. The more members, the more power they have. Also, more dues to embezzle.
The union needs to think long term for the benefit of the union as a whole. Not, what will benefit some junior teachers right now.

Thats all they care about right there.

Im not saying I dont understand WHY the union took the stance they did, Im saying they are the reason these teachers are out of work, not Chris Christie.

[Serpico1103]

Thats all they care about right there.

Im not saying I dont understand WHY the union took the stance they did, Im saying they are the reason these teachers are out of work, not Chris Christie.

And I am saying, I doubt you did a real thorough analysis of the negotiations to determine whether the offer that the union declined was actually a better offer for the membership as a whole.

Union corruption is a problem. Eliminating unions would create a bigger problem.

[epo]

Chris Christie Blames Washington for Not Fixing New Jersey’s Race to the Top Blunder (http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2010/08/chris_christie_blames_obama_ad.html)

After just barely losing out on $400 million in federal education money because his state's Race to the Top application included budgetary data from the wrong years, New Jersey governor Chris Christie claimed that the lazy bureaucrats in the federal government are really to blame.

Of course Christie is blaming Washington for his staff fucking up their application, but that doesn't fly. Seriously man, show some accountability and admit you fucked up.

[spoon]

what exactly happened here eps? I'm too tired to read that and have some work to get done.

[Tenbatsuzen]

Chris Christie Blames Washington for Not Fixing New Jersey’s Race to the Top Blunder (http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2010/08/chris_christie_blames_obama_ad.html)



Of course Christie is blaming Washington for his staff fucking up their application, but that doesn't fly. Seriously man, show some accountability and admit you fucked up.

No, *he* didn't "fuck up", someone down the line "fucked up", who he didn't name.

So he basically took some accountability for taking the heat when it was a pencil pusher who fucked up.

[Tenbatsuzen]

And BTW Epo:


Sometimes, it's just about finishing the test. In the first phase of the competition, Hawaii turned in an incomplete application. In the second phase, not only did they turn in a completed application, but they were awarded with a grant of $75 million.


I wonder who told Hawaii that they should fix their application?

[Dude!]

And BTW Epo:



I wonder who told Hawaii that they should fix their application?

we'll never know
records disappear
in hawaii...if they
ever actually existed

[spoon]

oh God
you have to be a character
because your gimmick
never stops
and you just won't
let shit go

[Dude!]

oh God
you have to be a character
because your gimmick
never stops
and you just won't
let shit go

you don't have to respond
to everything i write

[spoon]

I see stupid posts....http://allaboutadvocacy.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/movie_i_see_dead_people.jpg

[epo]

No, *he* didn't "fuck up", someone down the line "fucked up", who he didn't name.

So he basically took some accountability for taking the heat when it was a pencil pusher who fucked up.

So Christie didn't deflect blame to Washington with this quote?

“That’s the stuff the Obama administration should answer for. Are you guys just down there checking boxes like mindless drones, or are you thinking?” said the Republican governor said. “When the president comes back to New Jersey, he’s going to have to explain to the people of the state of New Jersey why he’s depriving them of $400 million that this application earned.”

Sorry Chris, but this is your responsibility not Washington. Your people fucked up and Washington acted accordingly.

[epo]

And BTW Epo:

I wonder who told Hawaii that they should fix their application?

So the government is supposed to fix Governor Christie's improperly done homework for him?

Get real.

[Freitag]

So the government is supposed to fix Governor Christie's improperly done homework for him?

Get real.

Christie was lied to by his own people covering their butts who actually screwed up. He was told there was verbal correction on the app. Obama said no. Christie saw the video, and promptly fired Bret Schundler, the person who was responsible for what happened.

[Earlshog]

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2010/10/gov_christie_pulls_funding_for.html


TRENTON — Two senior officials say Gov. Chris Christie today will kill the controversial $8.7 billion Hudson River rail tunnel project, which he says the state cannot afford to build.

[Earlshog]

we'll never know
records disappear
in hawaii...if they
ever actually existed

:lol:

[Zorro]

So Christie didn't deflect blame to Washington with this quote?



Sorry Chris, but this is your responsibility not Washington. Your people fucked up and Washington acted accordingly.

Just reread this stuff. Seems like pitting states against one another isn't good policy in the first place, but to deny because of a clerical error where's all that humanity the administration is supposed to have. You'd think Christie hadn't paid his $75 bucks so they let his house burn down.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Way to go Governor, tell Schumer to mind his own business





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[Snacks]

Way to go Governor, tell Schumer to mind his own business





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I didnt vote for this man but I will vote when it comes to reelection if he continues the job he is doing! Good for him. Im a liberal but Im tired of Schumer and all his preaching. He preaches and bitches about everything just to get on camera. He has done some good but he thinks just because hes a NY senator he get involved in everyones business!

I also like that Christie is standing up for the Jersey sports fan. I might hate the Jets but Im so tired of NJ never getting its due respect and acknowledgment when it comes the the Jets and Giants. He has been up front talking about how they are both Jersey teams and how he will be making the bets if any against the Gov of the other SB team if the Jets go. He makes sure to mention this every time and I m happy he does. Every other Gov has always taken the back seat to NY. To be honest Jersey is so much better and has so much more to offer then NY. The only thing NY has worth anything is Manhattan, thats it. NJ shouldnt take 2nd class to anyone especially the rest of NY!

Dont back down Christie, tell them to pay for easier access to our state and airports if they want this so bad!

[foodcourtdruide]

I'm trying to follow this, but am finding it crazy confusing and searching for information that isn't biased is incredibly difficult.

Anyway, so here's how I'm understanding it. For good or bad, Christie cancelled the the rail-way project, now he wants to use $1.8 billion from The Port Authority of NEW YORK that was to be allocated to the project, instead to fix roads in NEW JERSEY. Why on Earth should that be applauded? That seems totally shitty, and while I understand people in New Jersey would like it, why wouldn't a representative from NY who was in favor of the initial project be outraged?

Am I wrong here? I'm not going to pretend to understand the complexeties of inter-state budgets, but I don't get how Christie has done something so brilliant and ethically correct.

[foodcourtdruide]

I didnt vote for this man but I will vote when it comes to reelection if he continues the job he is doing! Good for him. Im a liberal but Im tired of Schumer and all his preaching. He preaches and bitches about everything just to get on camera. He has done some good but he thinks just because hes a NY senator he get involved in everyones business!

I also like that Christie is standing up for the Jersey sports fan. I might hate the Jets but Im so tired of NJ never getting its due respect and acknowledgment when it comes the the Jets and Giants. He has been up front talking about how they are both Jersey teams and how he will be making the bets if any against the Gov of the other SB team if the Jets go. He makes sure to mention this every time and I m happy he does. Every other Gov has always taken the back seat to NY. To be honest Jersey is so much better and has so much more to offer then NY. The only thing NY has worth anything is Manhattan, thats it. NJ shouldnt take 2nd class to anyone especially the rest of NY!

Dont back down Christie, tell them to pay for easier access to our state and airports if they want this so bad!

This is just crazy hometown pride talk.

[Snacks]

This is just crazy hometown pride talk.

No its not!! Why do so many people from Brooklyn, Bronx, Queens Staten Island move to Jersey? Because it better and you can have a better life. The reverse situations is limited. If people from Jersey move to NY 99% of those do it to live in Manhattan! They dont want to move to the other shit holes they might as well stay in Jersey!

[foodcourtdruide]

No its not!! Why do so many people from Brooklyn, Bronx, Queens Staten Island move to Jersey? Because it better and you can have a better life. The reverse situations is limited. If people from Jersey move to NY 99% of those do it to live in Manhattan! They dont want to move to the other shit holes they might as well stay in Jersey!

I think 23% of people in New Jersey move to Delaware to be closer to Rhode Island. Hey look, I can throw out crazy, made-up statistics too!

[Furtherman]

No its not!! Why do so many people from Brooklyn, Bronx, Queens Staten Island move to Jersey? Because it better and you can have a better life. The reverse situations is limited. If people from Jersey move to NY 99% of those do it to live in Manhattan! They dont want to move to the other shit holes they might as well stay in Jersey!

Why do so many people from Brooklyn, Bronx, Queens and Staten Island move to another part of the state? It's a big ass state.

[Snacks]

I think 23% of people in New Jersey move to Delaware to be closer to Rhode Island. Hey look, I can throw out crazy, made-up statistics too!

Im not throwing it out. Go to south Jersey from exit 120 and south and they entire area is filled with transplants from Brooklyn and Staten Island. My ex who is from Staten Island is the only one from her entire family that is still on the Island. Every cousin, Aunt both her brothers, her sister and both her parents all moved to Jersey over the past 10 years at different times. The only reason she cant move is her husband is a NYC cop!

BTW Delaware is south, RI is north, if you're going to use an example at least use one that makes sense! Say they are moving to Delaware to be closer to Maryland!

No one, not even the people who live on Staten Island will say its better then Jersey. It used to be part of Jersey til we gave it to NY to get rid of that dump!

[Snacks]

Why do so many people from Brooklyn, Bronx, Queens and Staten Island move to another part of the state? It's a big ass state.

Because the rest of the state sucks. Also moving to Jersey you can still be close enough to NYC and still able to work in NYC and visit their old neighborhoods but not have to live in those shit holes! NJ has it all.

[foodcourtdruide]

Im not throwing it out. Go to south Jersey from exit 120 and south and they entire area is filled with transplants from Brooklyn and Staten Island. My ex who is from Staten Island is the only one from her entire family that is still on the Island. Every cousin, Aunt both her brothers, her sister and both her parents all moved to Jersey over the past 10 years at different times. The only reason she cant move is her husband is a NYC cop!

BTW Delaware is south, RI is north, if you're going to use an example at least use one that makes sense! Say they are moving to Delaware to be closer to Maryland!

No one, not even the people who live on Staten Island will say its better then Jersey. It used to be part of Jersey til we gave it to NY to get rid of that dump!

I do not understand your need to take personal situations and apply it to the masses. I'm not originally from Staten Island, it's a pretty nice place to live though. I'm sure parts of New Jersey are much nicer than Staten Island, but I probably can't afford to live there.

[Zorro]

It's not the Port Authority of New York. It's the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey. A dual state agency.

[foodcourtdruide]

It's not the Port Authority of New York. It's the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey. A dual state agency.

Got'cha, that makes a lot more sense. Would they usually be responsible for the maintenance Christie is trying to allocate the money for?

[epo]

I'm trying to follow this, but am finding it crazy confusing and searching for information that isn't biased is incredibly difficult.

Anyway, so here's how I'm understanding it. For good or bad, Christie cancelled the the rail-way project, now he wants to use $1.8 billion from The Port Authority of NEW YORK that was to be allocated to the project, instead to fix roads in NEW JERSEY. Why on Earth should that be applauded? That seems totally shitty, and while I understand people in New Jersey would like it, why wouldn't a representative from NY who was in favor of the initial project be outraged?

Am I wrong here? I'm not going to pretend to understand the complexeties of inter-state budgets, but I don't get how Christie has done something so brilliant and ethically correct.

It would appear that by keeping the amount of the toll that was designated for other purposes, Governor Christie is a reckless tax & spender who has broken the public trust.

Or he's a gimmick politician who gutted infrastructure development and still wants the money to fill his budget.

[Tenbatsuzen]

It would appear that by keeping the amount of the toll that was designated for other purposes, Governor Christie is a reckless tax & spender who has broken the public trust.

Or he's a gimmick politician who gutted infrastructure development and still wants the money to fill his budget.

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHA HAHAH

Before you point ANY finger at Jersey politicians about gutting infrastructure development, Christie is probably very, very low on this list.

And as for "breaking the public trust", you do realize that Christie is RIDICULOUSLY popular in New Jersey right now?

I gotta ask you something, epo... State Dinners are usually a barometer of who is in favor and who is not. So can you explain, with Christie having two very public blowups with the Obama admin in less than a year (Race to the Top and ARC Tunnel) why he was there?

Answer: Keep your enemies closer.

[epo]

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHA HAHAH

Before you point ANY finger at Jersey politicians about gutting infrastructure development, Christie is probably very, very low on this list.

And as for "breaking the public trust", you do realize that Christie is RIDICULOUSLY popular in New Jersey right now?

I gotta ask you something, epo... State Dinners are usually a barometer of who is in favor and who is not. So can you explain, with Christie having two very public blowups with the Obama admin in less than a year (Race to the Top and ARC Tunnel) why he was there?

Answer: Keep your enemies closer.

Fine then Governor Christie is a reckless tax & spender who has broken the public trust by keeping the amount of the toll that was designated for other purposes.

Finally we agree on something.

[spoon]

...AND WE'RE OFF!

You're going to destroy his man-lust for you epo! Be careful! :wub:

[Snacks]

Christie hasnt been spending any money. He has actually been saving the state taxpayers money but cutting so much shit for cops, fireman and teachers. NJ is the only state where civil service jobs actually pay as much as private sector jobs. You then add the benefits packages and their pension plan and they can retire after 25 years. Sorry enough is enough.

When a cop retires at 45 years old and his pension is over $100k a year something is wrong. NJ is a very left leaning, liberal state yet he now has like a 70% approval rating and its because both sides think he is doing the right things right now!

[Tenbatsuzen]

Fine then Governor Christie is a reckless tax & spender who has broken the public trust by keeping the amount of the toll that was designated for other purposes.

Finally we agree on something.

How exactly do you define "reckless" tax and spender, given that the majority of Christie's admin so far has been cutting things to the bone? The main reason Christie killed the ARC tunnel was because of the massive budget overruns?

[spoon]

Christie hasnt been spending any money. He has actually been saving the state taxpayers money but cutting so much shit for cops, fireman and teachers. NJ is the only state where civil service jobs actually pay as much as private sector jobs. You then add the benefits packages and their pension plan and they can retire after 25 years. Sorry enough is enough.

When a cop retires at 45 years old and his pension is over $100k a year something is wrong. NJ is a very left leaning, liberal state yet he now has like a 70% approval rating and its because both sides think he is doing the right things right now!

I heard Bloomberg addressing this for NYC as well. He is trying to limit the early retirement to all uniform city employees, such as police and firemen. Everyone else it's 65. I really can't argue with that. In fact, I also believe most police and firemen get done way too early as I know people who were retired at freaking 45 as Snacks said. I understand the reasoning behind it all, but it's just a huge burden there as well on the state/city. Bt the pensions and the benefits, how can this model be sustainable?

[epo]

Christie hasnt been spending any money. He has actually been saving the state taxpayers money but cutting so much shit for cops, fireman and teachers. NJ is the only state where civil service jobs actually pay as much as private sector jobs. You then add the benefits packages and their pension plan and they can retire after 25 years. Sorry enough is enough.

When a cop retires at 45 years old and his pension is over $100k a year something is wrong. NJ is a very left leaning, liberal state yet he now has like a 70% approval rating and its because both sides think he is doing the right things right now!

If by 70%, you mean 53%...then you are right. (http://www.trentonian.com/articles/2011/01/11/news/doc4d2c5df036eaf005542813.txt)

[Tenbatsuzen]

BTW, I fully enjoy watching Epo spin when it comes to Christie. Unlike Palin, it's a conservative who 1) gets shit done 2) the people love 3) and if he feels like it, is the most credible threat to Obama right now.

[Tenbatsuzen]

If by 70%, you mean 53%...then you are right. (http://www.trentonian.com/articles/2011/01/11/news/doc4d2c5df036eaf005542813.txt)

53% in a ridiculously blue state. Yeah, I'd say people love him here.

[spoon]

Christie hasnt been spending any money. He has actually been saving the state taxpayers money but cutting so much shit for cops, fireman and teachers. NJ is the only state where civil service jobs actually pay as much as private sector jobs. You then add the benefits packages and their pension plan and they can retire after 25 years. Sorry enough is enough.

When a cop retires at 45 years old and his pension is over $100k a year something is wrong. NJ is a very left leaning, liberal state yet he now has like a 70% approval rating and its because both sides think he is doing the right things right now!

My problem comes in what is cut (not all of it) and who is cut in certain instances. I also heard Bloomberg wants to cut some teaching positions due to their budget issues in NYC. He wants the cuts to come based on merit, not seniority/tenure. There is a very tough to lift law in place to do this, and most think it won't happen. So in the end good young teachers will lose their jobs while old lazy awful teachers will be protected once again.

Also, the ARC is something that common citizens will need/use often moving forward as the existing mass transit and roads clog further. They don't fund these things bc they usually get pushed through regardless, as the politicians continue to find ways to support other shitty projects not needed by the public, but surely needed by those getting the funds funneled their way.

[spoon]

BTW, I fully enjoy watching Epo spin when it comes to Christie. Unlike Palin, it's a conservative who 1) gets shit done 2) the people love 3) and if he feels like it, is the most credible threat to Obama right now.

While I don't HATE Christie, I surely don't find him even close to a credible threat to Obama. He'd lose half the pub base just for being a fat NJ governor. If he is the most credible threat to Obama, congrats to Obama on his reelection now!

[epo]

How exactly do you define "reckless" tax and spender, given that the majority of Christie's admin so far has been cutting things to the bone? The main reason Christie killed the ARC tunnel was because of the massive budget overruns?

I just wanna make sure I have this story right: New York/New Jersey have a tunnel project scheduled and the government passes a toll (usage tax) to pay for it. Said toll is approved for the project. Governor Christie cancels NYJ commitment to project. Governor Christie then wants to keep toll (usage tax) and re-direct it to a purpose for which it wasn't originally intended, hence breaking the public trust (re: Public trust doctrine, not popularity polling).

Did I get that wrong?

[Tenbatsuzen]

Also, the ARC is something that common citizens will need/use often moving forward as the existing mass transit and roads clog further. They don't fund these things bc they usually get pushed through regardless, as the politicians continue to find ways to support other shitty projects not needed by the public, but surely needed by those getting the funds funneled their way.

People said the same thing about the Lautenberg transfer station, and it's widely unused.

It's actually happening in reverse. A lot of companies are allowing employees to work remotely or in places that are cheaper than Manhattan. That's actually lessening the flow of people going into NYC daily.

[epo]

53% in a ridiculously blue state. Yeah, I'd say people love him here.

That's not the argument. The argument was 70%.

I deal in facts.

[epo]

BTW, I fully enjoy watching Epo spin when it comes to Christie. Unlike Palin, it's a conservative who 1) gets shit done 2) the people love 3) and if he feels like it, is the most credible threat to Obama right now.

I would love to see Christie run, as Obama would destroy him on a national level and we'd never have to listen to that douche again.

[Tenbatsuzen]

I just wanna make sure I have this story right: New York/New Jersey have a tunnel project scheduled and the government passes a toll (usage tax) to pay for it. Said toll is approved for the project. Governor Christie cancels NYJ commitment to project. Governor Christie then wants to keep toll (usage tax) and re-direct it to a purpose for which it wasn't originally intended, hence breaking the public trust (re: Public trust doctrine, not popularity polling).

Did I get that wrong?

You did, actually, because Christie is asking for permission (not just taking the money and using it willy-nilly) with the commissioners of the PANYNJ.

And I also believe that NJ was paying for a majority of the project, but I'll have to go back and review it because it's been a while.

Oh, and BTW, this plan was actually hatched by Corzine - asking people who use the roads - via tolls - to subsidize the work that needs to be done on it via toll hikes. So actually the money IS being used at it was originally intended.

Christie actually downsized and removed a lot of fat from Corzine's plan.

And to be honest, I'd much rather have my toll hikes go to pay for the roads rather than a person in a union who gets paid 70K a year to sit in that booth, especially when I have EZ pass.

[spoon]

53% in a ridiculously blue state. Yeah, I'd say people love him here.

Love?! It means pretty split and like you said a victory in this state for a republican usually. Yet this isn't something so out of the ordinary. Whitman served for about 7 years in the 90's into 2001, while Kean pretty much covered the 80's with 8 years in office. If anything, over time it's been pretty back and forth.

82-90 Republican
90-94 Democratic
94-01 Republican
01-02 Republican (many different names until Cody took over once Whitman became EPA Administrator)
02=10 Democratic
10-? Republican

[Tenbatsuzen]

Can I ask a stupid question Epo?

I just wanna make sure I have this story right: New York/New Jersey have a tunnel project scheduled and the government passes a toll (usage tax) to pay for it. Said toll is approved for the project.

The ARC tunnel is a rail tunnel. Can I ask you the sense of a "usage tax" to pay for a rail tunnel by people who commute by car?

If anything, the money is being used properly. Usage tax to help repair the roads the people who are paying for it use. Not putting money into a project that car commuters wouldn't use.

[spoon]

People said the same thing about the Lautenberg transfer station, and it's widely unused.

It's actually happening in reverse. A lot of companies are allowing employees to work remotely or in places that are cheaper than Manhattan. That's actually lessening the flow of people going into NYC daily.

Yah, then drive the commute and tell me that bc it's bullshit. And there is a difference bt a stop on the fucking NJTPK that was argued forever by people that took issue with the location, versus the ARC project and the plan behind it. Not to mention as epo said, it was our tolls that were supposed to have already paid for it.

[Tenbatsuzen]

Love?! It means pretty split and like you said a victory in this state for a republican usually. Yet this isn't something so out of the ordinary. Whitman served for about 7 years in the 90's into 2001, while Kean pretty much covered the 80's with 8 years in office. If anything, over time it's been pretty back and forth.

82-90 Republican
90-94 Democratic
94-01 Republican
01-02 Republican (many different names until Cody took over once Whitman became EPA Administrator)
02=10 Democratic
10-? Republican

Codey didn't take over as Governor until McGreevey resigned. Someone else took over for Whitman when she left, I want to say it was Francis someone, but I can't remember.

I forgot who ran against McGreevey in 2002, but Forrester was destroyed in 2006 by Corzine and his money.

[epo]

You did, actually, because Christie is asking for permission (not just taking the money and using it willy-nilly) with the commissioners of the PANYNJ.

And I also believe that NJ was paying for a majority of the project, but I'll have to go back and review it because it's been a while.

Oh, and BTW, this plan was actually hatched by Corzine - asking people who use the roads - via tolls - to subsidize the work that needs to be done on it via toll hikes. So actually the money IS being used at it was originally intended.

Christie actually downsized and removed a lot of fat from Corzine's plan.

And to be honest, I'd much rather have my toll hikes go to pay for the roads rather than a person in a union who gets paid 70K a year to sit in that booth, especially when I have EZ pass.

It doesn't matter who passed the toll, but wasn't the toll was passed for the original intent of the rail tunnel? So if the tunnel is dead, shouldn't Christie rescind the toll?

[epo]

Can I ask a stupid question Epo?

The ARC tunnel is a rail tunnel. Can I ask you the sense of a "usage tax" to pay for a rail tunnel by people who commute by car?

If anything, the money is being used properly. Usage tax to help repair the roads the people who are paying for it use. Not putting money into a project that car commuters wouldn't use.

Not really, its a transportation tax. Its a very common way to fund projects of that ilk.

[Tenbatsuzen]

Yah, then drive the commute and tell me that bc it's bullshit. And there is a difference bt a stop on the fucking NJTPK that was argued forever by people that took issue with the location, versus the ARC project and the plan behind it. Not to mention as epo said, it was our tolls that were supposed to have already paid for it.

I need to find this wide approval for the ARC project, because I'm not seeing it. Nobody wanted or saw the need for it. The tunnel to Macy's basement, I think, was the colloquial term.

Jersey politics is well known for wasteful spending. Speaking of the NJ Turnpike, you just have to look off 16W to see evidence of THAT.

[Tenbatsuzen]

Not really, its a transportation tax. Its a very common way to fund projects of that ilk.

But using highway tolls to pay for road improvements is breaking the public trust?

[spoon]

Codey didn't take over as Governor until McGreevey resigned. Someone else took over for Whitman when she left, I want to say it was Francis someone, but I can't remember.

I forgot who ran against McGreevey in 2002, but Forrester was destroyed in 2006 by Corzine and his money.

Wrong.

Following Whitman's resignation and DiFrancesco's departure, John O. Bennett served as acting governor for three and a half days. During that time, he signed a few bills into law, gave a State of the State Address, and held parties at Drumthwacket, the New Jersey Governor's Mansion. Similarly, Richard J. Codey served as acting governor as well, Because control of the New Jersey State Senate was split, resulting in two Senate co-Presidents, Codey and Bennett, each held the office of acting governor for three days. Perhaps this spectacle as much as any other factor led to the voters' decision to amend the state constitution to create the office of Lieutenant Governor.

[epo]

But using highway tolls to pay for road improvements is breaking the public trust?

Not at all. Its a transportation usage fee for a transportation project.

If it was a transportation fund raid for bourbon, that would be a violation of the public trust.

[epo]

But using highway tolls to pay for road improvements is breaking the public trust?

And no answer for the continuation of the toll?

[Tenbatsuzen]

It doesn't matter who passed the toll, but wasn't the toll was passed for the original intent of the rail tunnel? So if the tunnel is dead, shouldn't Christie rescind the toll?

Paying tolls in NJ is a way of life. You ask people who actually live here if they would rather pay higher tolls with that money going into road repair OR that money going into a tunnel they may not use, I would assure you, the answer would be resoundingly for the former.

The holes in the budget Christie received that Schumer is slamming him for is because of reckless spending by his predecessor. If you really want to talk reckless tax and spend, look no further than Corzine.

ARC tunnel was pointless and ill-conceived, and Ray LaHood agreed with Christie on that.

[spoon]

I need to find this wide approval for the ARC project, because I'm not seeing it. Nobody wanted or saw the need for it. The tunnel to Macy's basement, I think, was the colloquial term.

Jersey politics is well known for wasteful spending. Speaking of the NJ Turnpike, you just have to look off 16W to see evidence of THAT.

Classic Tenbats, where the fuck did I ever say one way or the other the support or lack thereof for the ARC project? Can you ever have a debate on these things without making bullshit arguments on the side? I can't definitively remember the public's view either way on this one, but I do remember it being more of a spend, tax, toll and less government debacle these things usually turn into. Let's not argue the actual details and it's risk/benefit overall, let's pick sides and yell to gain votes of the idiots on both sides. Your "colloquial term" was/is one of many used by those against it for reasons stated above. Which is fine, I'm not 100% behind the exact details of any project. Yet let's keep the facts in order here.

[Tenbatsuzen]

Wrong.

Three whole days. Oooh. DiFrancesco who I was thinking of. Codey was in on a more permanent basis in 2004, and it's why a Lt. Gov post was created.

[epo]

Paying tolls in NJ is a way of life. You ask people who actually live here if they would rather pay higher tolls with that money going into road repair OR that money going into a tunnel they may not use, I would assure you, the answer would be resoundingly for the former.

The holes in the budget Christie received that Schumer is slamming him for is because of reckless spending by his predecessor. If you really want to talk reckless tax and spend, look no further than Corzine.

ARC tunnel was pointless and ill-conceived, and Ray LaHood agreed with Christie on that.

But this is not about Corzine, this is about Christie.

A toll passed by Corzine for a project is continued by Christie without the project. That is using a tax for other purposes to fill a budget gap.

If Christie was intellectually honest about the process, he would kill the toll for the old project. Then he would ask his state legislature to approve a new toll for the new purposes.

[Tenbatsuzen]

And no answer for the continuation of the toll?

...you're acting like tolls in NJ are going to go away entirely.

[Tenbatsuzen]

But this is not about Corzine, this is about Christie.

A toll passed by Corzine for a project is continued by Christie without the project. That is using a tax for other purposes to fill a budget gap.

If Christie was intellectually honest about the process, he would kill the toll for the old project. Then he would ask his state legislature to approve a new toll for the new purposes.

State Legislature. In New Jersey. Riiiiiiiiiiiight.

[epo]

State Legislature. In New Jersey. Riiiiiiiiiiiight.

So because Christie can't pass a new tax in New Jersey for real purposes, he should continue an old tax for fraudulent purposes?

[spoon]

Three whole days. Oooh. DiFrancesco who I was thinking of. Codey was in on a more permanent basis in 2004, and it's why a Lt. Gov post was created.

Yes, which is why you were wrong Matt. I'm not trying to get you as you always do. Yet I clearly remembered that debacle causing the lt. governor position to be installed in NJ, and you clearly didn't. So yes, he was in office for a short term, but once he did take over in 02 it was indeed Democratic until 2010 as I posted. FACT.

[Tenbatsuzen]

Yes, which is why you were wrong Matt. I'm not trying to get you as you always do. Yet I clearly remembered that debacle causing the lt. governor position to be installed in NJ, and you clearly didn't. So yes, he was in office for a short term, but once he did take over in 02 it was indeed Democratic until 2010 as I posted. FACT.

Just a question though - DiFrancesco was in power for a lot longer than 3 days. So why did you say "Cody" took over when it was 3 days?

Something about changing facts, changing the argument, etc. etc... maybe?

And "Cody" didn't take over for Whitman when she left for the EPA post, as you originally said. So you were wrong as well.

[spoon]

State Legislature. In New Jersey. Riiiiiiiiiiiight.

Well unlike on the national scene with repubs, getting rid of revenue at this time would be a train wreck for the state. It's simply not the time to even attempt this type move...even if the tax cuts for the rich were pushed through on a national level.

[spoon]

Just a question though - DiFrancesco was in power for a lot longer than 3 days. So why did you say "Cody" took over when it was 3 days?

Something about changing facts, changing the argument, etc. etc... maybe?

And "Cody" didn't take over for Whitman when she left for the EPA post, as you originally said. So you were wrong as well.

It was a simple point as to where the dems took over and it was in 02. They all took over for Whittman in theory bc it was her term they were filling out. I said "when Cody took over", the year he actually did take over the term until the next election. Simple really, try reading versus trying to save face.

[spoon]

Oh and your, "Just a question", "Can I ask a stupid question" tactic is cute and extremely pathetic.

[Snacks]

If by 70%, you mean 53%...then you are right. (http://www.trentonian.com/articles/2011/01/11/news/doc4d2c5df036eaf005542813.txt)

because 802 people polled equals the majority!

[Snacks]

I just wanna make sure I have this story right: New York/New Jersey have a tunnel project scheduled and the government passes a toll (usage tax) to pay for it. Said toll is approved for the project. Governor Christie cancels NYJ commitment to project. Governor Christie then wants to keep toll (usage tax) and re-direct it to a purpose for which it wasn't originally intended, hence breaking the public trust (re: Public trust doctrine, not popularity polling).

Did I get that wrong?

It was going to still cost close to $5 billion dollars more in possible overruns that the NJ tax payers (no one else) would have to pay for. Good Job Mr Christie!

[epo]

because 802 people polled equals the majority!

Its called a scientific poll. Its not a "perfect" reflection, but I'd guarantee the real number is closer to 53 than to 70.

Wanna bet on that?

[epo]

It was going to still cost close to $5 billion dollars more in possible overruns that the NJ tax payers (no one else) would have to pay for. Good Job Mr Christie!

So you are justifying Governor Christie's false tax?

[Snacks]

Its called a scientific poll. Its not a "perfect" reflection, but I'd guarantee the real number is closer to 53 than to 70.

Wanna bet on that?

yeah there is polls out there that say he has 33% approval. Im going by what I hear on my local news my local radio and the people I talk to. I have talked to more then 802 people myself does that mean I can say 95% approval?

Polls are meaningless especially ones that ask so few people.

People in NJ dems and reps seem very happy with what he is doing. Mainly those who own homes and pay taxes.

Why are you even talking about Christie? Dont you live in Wisc? You know nothing of the problems we have in this state. We have the highest property tax and 1 or 2 in insurance. We need someone to fix that and he seems to be on the right track!

The house I grew up in the taxes were $1000 a year (which was a lot back then) Now 20 years later they are $8000! The lot is 50x 100 and the taxes are $8000 a year. My brothers taxes are $12,000 a year. My Uncles taxes are $30,000 a year. These are all just property taxes in middle class towns not even rich town! Enough is enough.

[Snacks]

So you are justifying Governor Christie's false tax?

I dont know anything about a false tax I do know that the reason he stopped the construction going forward was over runs. They wouldnt give an exact amount it was going to cost and 100% of these cost were to be paid by NJ not NY, Not the FEDS and Not the port authority!

So that is justified.

[epo]

I must admit Snacks, your uneducated approach to public polling doesn't shock me.

[epo]

I dont know anything about a false tax I do know that the reason he stopped the construction going forward was over runs. They wouldnt give an exact amount it was going to cost and 100% of these cost were to be paid by NJ not NY, Not the FEDS and Not the port authority!

So that is justified.

Please read the previous couple of pages. I'm not going to repeat myself.

[Snacks]

I must admit Snacks, your uneducated approach to public polling doesn't shock me.

I must admit you talking about something you dont know nor about a place you probaly never even visited doesnt surprise me.

If you will make educated decision based on polling of 800 people when it affects 9,000,000 people well then you are an idiot and please never make any decisions that affect others.

[Snacks]

Please read the previous couple of pages. I'm not going to repeat myself.

No one asked you to. Stay out of NJ and we will stay out of cheese country. We all know the fly over states mean nothing anyway so worry about you and we will worry about us here!

[epo]

I must admit you talking about something you dont know nor about a place you probaly never even visited doesnt surprise me.

If you will make educated decision based on polling of 800 people when it affects 9,000,000 people well then you are an idiot and please never make and decisions that affect others.

Your approach to scientific public polling is cute. Everytime you attempt to insult me on a fact-based realm you look dumber for it.

[TripleSkeet]

I personally love the guy. I think hes the best thing to happen to Jersey in a long time. The fucking guy came in with a 9 billion dollar deficit and hes doing everything he can to clean that shit up. The bottom line is to fix the state everybody has to do their part. The teachers didnt want to help so BOOM....layoffs. Good. He also just laid off 150 Camden cops. People are crying like it really fucking matters. They dont do dick there anyway. Hopefully theyll burn the whole fucking city to the ground.

And personally, being in South Jersey I really dont give a shit about some New York tunnel project. The fact hes shutting that shit down and keeping the money for the state of NJ instead makes me like him even more.

[Snacks]

I personally love the guy. I think hes the best thing to happen to Jersey in a long time. The fucking guy came in with a 9 billion dollar deficit and hes doing everything he can to clean that shit up. The bottom line is to fix the state everybody has to do their part. The teachers didnt want to help so BOOM....layoffs. Good. He also just laid off 150 Camden cops. People are crying like it really fucking matters. They dont do dick there anyway. Hopefully theyll burn the whole fucking city to the ground.

And personally, being in South Jersey I really dont give a shit about some New York tunnel project. The fact hes shutting that shit down and keeping the money for the state of NJ instead makes me like him even more.

Exactly. Even though I live n Northern NJ and would use the tunnel Im glad he is doing the same. How bad are our roads? We have more pot holes then any other state. We needed someone to come in here and fix shit. Im happy I was wrong. I voted for Corzine and now I see the difference and its amazing what he is doing. I dont love everything hes doing but most people know it necessary evils in order to fix the problems this state has.

[TripleSkeet]

Exactly. Even though I live n Northern NJ and would use the tunnel Im glad he is doing the same. How bad are our roads? We have more pot holes then any other state. We needed someone to come in here and fix shit. Im happy I was wrong. I voted for Corzine and now I see the difference and its amazing what he is doing. I dont love everything hes doing but most people know it necessary evils in order to fix the problems this state has.

Thats the thing. Hes doing what he has to do to fix the state. Most people want everything fixed as long as they dont have to participate in any way. Shit, I had to lose out on my homeowner tax rebate for a year....and even though I filed I still havent gotten it this year yet, but I understand it needed to be done. If everyone would just tighten their belt a little bit we could get the state back on track. The people that bitch and complain are the ones that dont want to pitch in.

[spoon]

Thats the thing. Hes doing what he has to do to fix the state. Most people want everything fixed as long as they dont have to participate in any way. Shit, I had to lose out on my homeowner tax rebate for a year....and even though I filed I still havent gotten it this year yet, but I understand it needed to be done. If everyone would just tighten their belt a little bit we could get the state back on track. The people that bitch and complain are the ones that dont want to pitch in.

I'm not for him or against him fully. At times I like his approach and areas of budget cuts, at other times I don't. Saying if you disagree you don't want to pitch in is incredibly wrong. I can easily think of better ways to trim the fat in government versus cutting cops and teachers. You're telling me his way is the only way to do this? I think government is SOOO out of whack these days that someone can act like they are doing something novel when in fact they are doing their job while protecting their own interests as well. He's using the crisis to attack all the groups that protect worker's rights. While I feel unions need a kick in the ass to get on the right track/purpose in most areas, I feel government and corporations need it more but you don't see him going there do you?

[TripleSkeet]

I'm not for him or against him fully. At times I like his approach and areas of budget cuts, at other times I don't. Saying if you disagree you don't want to pitch in is incredibly wrong. I can easily think of better ways to trim the fat in government versus cutting cops and teachers. You're telling me his way is the only way to do this? I think government is SOOO out of whack these days that someone can act like they are doing something novel when in fact they are doing their job while protecting their own interests as well. He's using the crisis to attack all the groups that protect worker's rights. While I feel unions need a kick in the ass to get on the right track/purpose in most areas, I feel government and corporations need it more but you don't see him going there do you?

I can understand that. Believe me, I LOATHE corporations. And cutting teachers and cops may not be the best way, but when the teachers get what these teacher do, you either cut them or change that shit. Im sorry but EVERYONE should at least pay some of their healthcare. If a private employer wants to pay for it fine, but teachers dont pay any of it, and they expect it to just stay that way. Thats fucking ridiculous. So if they dont wanna give a little back then some of them get laid off, oh well. I feel bad for the teachers losing their jobs but not for the situation because its one that couldve been avoided if they agreed to help out.

I mean, any government employee is going to feel their job is one that doesnt need to be cut, but the bottom line is, one way or another some of them have to be in order to get the budget back on track.

[Pitdoc]

Exactly. Even though I live n Northern NJ and would use the tunnel Im glad he is doing the same. How bad are our roads? We have more pot holes then any other state. We needed someone to come in here and fix shit. Im happy I was wrong. I voted for Corzine and now I see the difference and its amazing what he is doing. I dont love everything hes doing but most people know it necessary evils in order to fix the problems this state has.

If Christie wants to divert an additional TAX on his residents,that was supposed to go to a tunnel, then he should be forced to go before them and ask to do so.If he plays it right , they might buy it.Maybe if they made it a proposition in the next election; Do you want to raise taxes to make NJ roads better ? OK, fine. I want to see Governor Cut Taxes try to sell that . If he can , more power to him ( as NJ roads are truly shit). At the same time, he better give back the $270 million he pocketed from the train tunnel HE cancelled back to the federal government. For some reason he's going to court to fight that.

[foodcourtdruide]

I don't understand this debate at all.

Epo's point is that Christie is trying to divert funding meant for one thing, to something entirely different, and that's fucked up.

Tenbatz and Spoon's points are that people like Christie.

What the fuck?

[foodcourtdruide]

I'm not for him or against him fully. At times I like his approach and areas of budget cuts, at other times I don't. Saying if you disagree you don't want to pitch in is incredibly wrong. I can easily think of better ways to trim the fat in government versus cutting cops and teachers. You're telling me his way is the only way to do this? I think government is SOOO out of whack these days that someone can act like they are doing something novel when in fact they are doing their job while protecting their own interests as well. He's using the crisis to attack all the groups that protect worker's rights. While I feel unions need a kick in the ass to get on the right track/purpose in most areas, I feel government and corporations need it more but you don't see him going there do you?

I find it absolutely bizarre that the working class supports hurting worker rights. It's mind-boggling to me.

[epo]

I find it absolutely bizarre that the working class supports hurting worker rights. It's mind-boggling to me.

Working people have learned to scapegoat other working people. Reagan taught us that.

What most people don't generally understand is that data shows that when organized labor improves its standing, all private & public sector workers are helped by this because it changes the average market cost for labor.

Instead, they want a tax cut...for the rich & corporations.

[foodcourtdruide]

Working people have learned to scapegoat other working people. Reagan taught us that.

What most people don't generally understand is that data shows that when organized labor improves its standing, all private & public sector workers are helped by this because it changes the average market cost for labor.

Instead, they want a tax cut...for the rich & corporations.

It's almost like their philosophy is: "If I made less money, then I'd make more money"

[epo]

It's almost like their philosophy is: "If I made less money, then I'd make more money"

If that teacher pays more for insurance, then my life will improve.

[Tenbatsuzen]

I don't understand this debate at all.

Epo's point is that Christie is trying to divert funding meant for one thing, to something entirely different, and that's fucked up.

Tenbatz and Spoon's points are that people like Christie.

What the fuck?

But my point was is that Christie isn't diverting it to something else entirely, he's diverting it to something that more people will get a use out of, and in fact, is even a better use of the money than originally intended.

[Snacks]

But my point was is that Christie isn't diverting it to something else entirely, he's diverting it to something that more people will get a use out of, and in fact, is even a better use of the money than originally intended.

Exactly!

What are they going to do with the whole that was already dug out for the tunnel? They arent going to leave it there are they?

[epo]

But my point was is that Christie isn't diverting it to something else entirely, he's diverting it to something that more people will get a use out of, and in fact, is even a better use of the money than originally intended.

So the money was approved for A. He is diverting the money without approval to B. This is fine because you approve. What if you didn't approve?

See how this logic/argument by Christie is completely intellectually disingenuous and a violation of the public trust?

[Tenbatsuzen]

So the money was approved for A. He is diverting the money without approval to B. This is fine because you approve. What if you didn't approve?

See how this logic/argument by Christie is completely intellectually disingenuous and a violation of the public trust?


He is requesting approval from the PANYNJ. It's not a voter issue.

If I didn't approve, I wouldn't use the turnpike.

[Tenbatsuzen]

Exactly!

What are they going to do with the whole that was already dug out for the tunnel? They arent going to leave it there are they?

They didn't start digging yet, did they? There's no way they could have.

[Snacks]

They didn't start digging yet, did they? There's no way they could have.

From what I remember they did! It broke ground in June! At least I thought it did!

[Tenbatsuzen]

From what I remember they did! It broke ground in June! At least I thought it did!

Checked wikipedia, yeah, they did. In fact, concerns about running overbudget on the start of tunneling is what happened to start the ball rolling on cancellation.

[TripleSkeet]

I find it absolutely bizarre that the working class supports hurting worker rights. It's mind-boggling to me.

Since when does a workers "rights" include not paying a dime towards their own healthcare and getting a raise every single year???? I must have missed the memo.

[epo]

Since when does a workers "rights" include not paying a dime towards their own healthcare and getting a raise every single year???? I must have missed the memo.

So the middle class is fighting the middle class.

Reagan and his rich cronies won.

[Tenbatsuzen]

So the middle class is fighting the middle class.

Reagan and his rich cronies won.

I still haven't heard an explanation about what makes teachers so special that they can't be bothered to pay for healthcare.

Cops, firefighters, I can understand. Dangerous work where you put your body at risk. But I'm still waiting for an explanation on teachers.

[Ogre]

Working people have learned to scapegoat other working people. Reagan taught us that.

What most people don't generally understand is that data shows that when organized labor improves its standing, all private & public sector workers are helped by this because it changes the average market cost for labor.

Instead, they want a tax cut...for the rich & corporations.

Maybe public sector workers' life improves. The Union representation is much higher in public sector jobs than private. Being that the private sector is the part of the economy that creates wealth and the public sector consumes wealth; that leads to the natural conclusion that Unions facilitate a drain on the Nation's wealth.

Quite simply, Unions are not a true represenatation of the productive workforce that drives our economy. They are a drain. They are shields for the lazy and unmotivated.

The Union dues are directed towards political cronies, rather than doing anything to help improve long term working conditions through sustainable collective bargaining agreements.

The American people will rise up against the Unions before this is all done. I believe that.

**begin baseless attack here**

[Furtherman]

All your baseless are belong to us.

[TripleSkeet]

So the middle class is fighting the middle class.

Reagan and his rich cronies won.

I dont get how that has to do with fighting the working class. The state made a deal with the union. When they dont have the funds the governmor gave the union an option, start paying a miniscule percentage of your own healthcare and take a one year pay freeze....or we lay off teachers. Apparently the union would rather some teachers go without work then sacrifice a small amount for the good of everyone.

Those teachers that got fucked out of their job? They arent the "rich" ones. They are the ones that needed the work most.

And Im not for giving tax breaks to the rich either, I dont know where that came from. But the bottom line is people are fucking selfish. I know if somebody asked me "Listen, money is tight, if you agree to a pay freeze for one year I wont have to lay off one of your co-workers, otherwise, I gotta take his job away" I would do it. Its not like they are asking them to take a fucking pay cut for Gods sake.

[Tenbatsuzen]

I dont get how that has to do with fighting the working class. The state made a deal with the union. When they dont have the funds the governmor gave the union an option, start paying a miniscule percentage of your own healthcare and take a one year pay freeze....or we lay off teachers. Apparently the union would rather some teachers go without work then sacrifice a small amount for the good of everyone.

Those teachers that got fucked out of their job? They arent the "rich" ones. They are the ones that needed the work most.

And Im not for giving tax breaks to the rich either, I dont know where that came from. But the bottom line is people are fucking selfish. I know if somebody asked me "Listen, money is tight, if you agree to a pay freeze for one year I wont have to lay off one of your co-workers, otherwise, I gotta take his job away" I would do it. Its not like they are asking them to take a fucking pay cut for Gods sake.

I've made these points to Epo before, Skeet. Apparently, they know how to do things better 2000 miles away.

[Dude!]

Milwaukee is only
900 miles from NJ

[Zorro]

Milwaukee is only
900 miles from NJ

900 miles and a world away.

How's that new Harley plant in India working out.

[Dude!]

900 miles and a world away.

How's that new Harley plant in India working out.

hey, don't expect me
to defend that hell-hole

i was just pointing out
the facts

[Tenbatsuzen]

Milwaukee is only
900 miles from NJ

The point is, it just illustrates the typical left-wing elitism "we know better than you know" bullshit that grinds my gears.

Here's a politician who is basically doing his own thing in NJ. He's not a senator, and he has indicated MULTIPLE times he has zero interest running for president. What he does should not effect epo in the slightest, but epo rails against him like he's Sarah Palin's buddy or something.

Not only that, epo has taken a simple redirection of funds into "breaking the public the trust" and even going so far of accusing Christie of being a corrupt politician because he wants to... repair the roads?

[Snacks]

The point is, it just illustrates the typical left-wing elitism "we know better than you know" bullshit that grinds my gears.

Here's a politician who is basically doing his own thing in NJ. He's not a senator, and he has indicated MULTIPLE times he has zero interest running for president. What he does should not effect epo in the slightest, but epo rails against him like he's Sarah Palin's buddy or something.

Not only that, epo has taken a simple redirection of funds into "breaking the public the trust" and even going so far of accusing Christie of being a corrupt politician because he wants to... repair the roads?

Watch with those "typical left wing" crap. Im (at least used to be and still consider myself) as left as they come especially on social issues. I do see my wrong thinking on certain issues. Im still against most right wing ideas when it comes to taxes, health care and helping others. But we as a country need to get past this type of talk. We also need to stop staying on the party line even when our own party is wrong. We need fresh ideas and need to do whats right for all Americans not just those who side with us!

[Justice4all]

Go fuck yourself. My mom was a fucking teacher for thirty fucking years and did a damn good job. Teachers if anything are underpaid

Amen

[Justice4all]

you are 100% right. there is no fucking reason these small towns of 16,000 have full fire and police depts.

You're kidding right???

[Justice4all]

Im not religious, lLet the gays get married if they want. Abortion should be left to the states. Against the buildup in Afghanistan. Against a bio metric ID card. Repeal the patriot act. Against nationalized healthcare, Audit the fed, opposed all bailouts. Slash entitlement programs. Eliminate dept of Education, Repeal the patriot act.


and Affirmative action???

[Dude!]

and Affirmative action???

= racism

[weekapaugjz]

The point is, it just illustrates the typical left-wing elitism "we know better than you know" bullshit that grinds my gears.

hack

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/what-grinds-my-gears.jpg

[foodcourtdruide]

The point is, it just illustrates the typical left-wing elitism "we know better than you know" bullshit that grinds my gears.

Here's a politician who is basically doing his own thing in NJ. He's not a senator, and he has indicated MULTIPLE times he has zero interest running for president. What he does should not effect epo in the slightest, but epo rails against him like he's Sarah Palin's buddy or something.

Not only that, epo has taken a simple redirection of funds into "breaking the public the trust" and even going so far of accusing Christie of being a corrupt politician because he wants to... repair the roads?

A simple redirection of funds?? It's $1.8 billion dollars!!! I know we all want to hate Chuck Schumer because a lot of people with television and radio shows tell us we should, but the original context of this conversation was about Christie's rebuttal to Schumer's remarks. I fail to understand how Schumer was in the wrong, considering Christie killed a project Schumer seemed to support, then attempted to use the money allocated for the project (which was allocated by the Port Authority of NEW YORK and NEW JERSEY) for something in NEW JERSEY that Schumer has NO vested interest in. Though a politically shrewd move, Christie's fake outrage in those clips is quite comical.

[foodcourtdruide]

Since when does a workers "rights" include not paying a dime towards their own healthcare and getting a raise every single year???? I must have missed the memo.

And since when does it not? If you support workers, wouldn't you want all workers to receive these benefits, instead of taking it away from those who do? How did the right convince America that workers should be compensated as little as possible?

[foodcourtdruide]

Quite simply, Unions are not a true represenatation of the productive workforce that drives our economy. They are a drain. They are shields for the lazy and unmotivated.



Thanks for taking an extremely complex issue and turning it into several bumper stickers. Again, how did the right make the American working class hate workers?

[Tenbatsuzen]

A simple redirection of funds?? It's $1.8 billion dollars!!! I know we all want to hate Chuck Schumer because a lot of people with television and radio shows tell us we should, but the original context of this conversation was about Christie's rebuttal to Schumer's remarks. I fail to understand how Schumer was in the wrong, considering Christie killed a project Schumer seemed to support, then attempted to use the money allocated for the project (which was allocated by the Port Authority of NEW YORK and NEW JERSEY) for something in NEW JERSEY that Schumer has NO vested interest in. Though a politically shrewd move, Christie's fake outrage in those clips is quite comical.

The money is being collected by NEW JERSEY tollbooths.

[disneyspy]

new jersey has the worst fucking roads in the eastern half of the country,they should pay us to drive on their shitty roads

[epo]

Not only that, epo has taken a simple redirection of funds into "breaking the public the trust" and even going so far of accusing Christie of being a corrupt politician because he wants to... repair the roads?

I fucking dare you to quote me in any thread on this board calling Governor Christie "corrupt".

In fact I'll send you $20 if you can, because its impossible.

Don't fucking put words in my mouth.

[epo]

But my point was is that Christie isn't diverting it to something else entirely, he's diverting it to something that more people will get a use out of, and in fact, is even a better use of the money than originally intended.

And you've completely ignored my calling out your argument that "because you like the re-direction" of funds that's its ok.

Answer this question: What if a governor were redirecting those funds to something you didn't like? Would you support it then?

[epo]

Maybe public sector workers' life improves. The Union representation is much higher in public sector jobs than private. Being that the private sector is the part of the economy that creates wealth and the public sector consumes wealth; that leads to the natural conclusion that Unions facilitate a drain on the Nation's wealth.

Quite simply, Unions are not a true represenatation of the productive workforce that drives our economy. They are a drain. They are shields for the lazy and unmotivated.

The Union dues are directed towards political cronies, rather than doing anything to help improve long term working conditions through sustainable collective bargaining agreements.

The American people will rise up against the Unions before this is all done. I believe that.

**begin baseless attack here**

If you could fit a few more talking points into your messages, I would truly appreciate it.

[epo]

I still haven't heard an explanation about what makes teachers so special that they can't be bothered to pay for healthcare.

Cops, firefighters, I can understand. Dangerous work where you put your body at risk. But I'm still waiting for an explanation on teachers.

Instead of bitching about the benefits that others in the working class get, why aren't the working class bitching about not receiving those same benefits themselves?

Unions in this nation help all workers by strengthening what human resources would call the "market-based" compensation. When you gut the unions via their salary/benefits, you reduce the average market compensation for workers and remove your own personal leverage per your value.

Of course, feel free....bitch away about how teachers, government workers, union peeps in general "make too much", then cry to us about how shitty your own wages/benefits are.

[Justice4all]

yeah, like babysitting kids
after school makes us more
competitive in the world

we should permanently cut
every optional school program
and teach the kids math and science
all day long

that's the only way we'll ever
compete with the dots and chinks

i'm sure epo will miss his
home ec and band practice
but fuck him

Said the racist

[Tenbatsuzen]

And you've completely ignored my calling out your argument that "because you like the re-direction" of funds that's its ok.

Answer this question: What if a governor were redirecting those funds to something you didn't like? Would you support it then?

I already did. I said I wouldn't drive on the turnpike.

[epo]

I already did. I said I wouldn't drive on the turnpike.

So was that a yes or no to your support for fund raiding?

Yes or No.

[Tenbatsuzen]

So was that a yes or no to your support for fund raiding?

Yes or No.

If I'm going to be charged for something I wouldn't use vs. being charged for something I would - and it's really not "raiding" if he's asking for permission from the PANYNJ - then you have your answer.

You still haven't answered why you constantly vilify someone who doesn't affect you at all.

[epo]

If I'm going to be charged for something I wouldn't use vs. being charged for something I would - and it's really not "raiding" if he's asking for permission from the PANYNJ - then you have your answer.

You still haven't answered why you constantly vilify someone who doesn't affect you at all.

And yet still, I don't see a yes/no answer from you.

And I mock Governor Christie because I think he's a goon.

[epo]

If I'm going to be charged for something I wouldn't use vs. being charged for something I would - and it's really not "raiding" if he's asking for permission from the PANYNJ - then you have your answer.

You still haven't answered why you constantly vilify someone who doesn't affect you at all.

And you still haven't found the post in which I call Governor Christie "corrupt"?

Keep looking...

[Tenbatsuzen]

Instead of bitching about the benefits that others in the working class get, why aren't the working class bitching about not receiving those same benefits themselves?

Unions in this nation help all workers by strengthening what human resources would call the "market-based" compensation. When you gut the unions via their salary/benefits, you reduce the average market compensation for workers and remove your own personal leverage per your value.

Of course, feel free....bitch away about how teachers, government workers, union peeps in general "make too much", then cry to us about how shitty your own wages/benefits are.

My wages aren't shitty. I'm just not that self-entitled, and I understand how the economics of healthcare and benefits work. If we all received those benefits, the socioeconomic problems we face right now would be much, much worse.

[Dude!]

Said the racist

aw, shaddup and go
suck some Snack-family cock

[foodcourtdruide]

My wages aren't shitty. I'm just not that self-entitled, and I understand how the economics of healthcare and benefits work. If we all received those benefits, the socioeconomic problems we face right now would be much, much worse.

This is actually a highly debatable statement. One can argue the reason healthcare costs are so high is because we don't all receive these benefits. My wife is in Japan right now, where do you think I'd rather get sick? And I have health insurance.

[Tenbatsuzen]

This is actually a highly debatable statement. One can argue the reason healthcare costs are so high is because we don't all receive these benefits. My wife is in Japan right now, where do you think I'd rather get sick? And I have health insurance.

And you're saying if we ALL received those benefits, the costs would be lower? Really?

The entire system is broken because it was built on a bad foundation.

[TripleSkeet]

And since when does it not? If you support workers, wouldn't you want all workers to receive these benefits, instead of taking it away from those who do? How did the right convince America that workers should be compensated as little as possible?

Sure. Id also want all workers to have a company car and expense account. But Im fucking realistic. It cant be done. Matty is right, if every state worker had their entire healthcare paid for and guaranteed raises every single year the fucking state would be in worse shape then its already in.

Its not realistic. Its your own healthcare. Paying 1 1/2 percent of it yourself is hardly asking too much. Especially if it would save the jobs of your fellow coworkers. And guaranteed raises??? How the fuck do you figure people have a right to that??? Do private businesses guarantee raises for their employees every year? Or do they base them on actual performance? Which way makes more sense?

Im sorry but freezing your pay for 1 year and putting in such a small percentage for healthcare is hardly being compensated "as little as possible". Especially for a 9 month a year job.

[epo]

And you're saying if we ALL received those benefits, the costs would be lower? Really?

The entire system is broken because it was built on a bad foundation.

Actually if we all had those benefits AND we accessed our primary/preventative care we'd lower our health care expenses.

[Tenbatsuzen]

Actually if we all had those benefits AND we accessed our primary/preventative care we'd lower our health care expenses.

[citation needed]

We'd be lowering our expenses, sure, but what about the goverment? Taxes? Jobs for people working in healthcare? Not to mention an explosion in litigation from potential malpractice.

[epo]

[citation needed]

We'd be lowering our expenses, sure, but what about the goverment? Taxes? Jobs for people working in healthcare? Not to mention an explosion in litigation from potential malpractice.

I ain't citing shit, as I'm watching the football game. But I will say this, I do communications for a health care provider and you'd be shocked to see the amount of unnecessary expense is in the system because of lack of access and prevention.

[foodcourtdruide]

And you're saying if we ALL received those benefits, the costs would be lower? Really?

The entire system is broken because it was built on a bad foundation.

http://www.good.is/post/cost-of-health-care-by-country-as-compared-to-life-expectancy/

This graphic is absolutely amazing. Why do you think this is? How much do you think health care costs the individual in Japan? Why do you think it's a lot cheaper? Do you think the quality is worse? Again, my wife is in Japan and we have health insurance (I work for a great company). It would be MUCH cheaper to get sick in Japan than here, EVEN MINUS my monthly health insurance costs.

In my opinion, people who think like you are the bad foundation. You believe that the people who are getting healthcare are the problem, not the other way around.

[foodcourtdruide]

[citation needed]

We'd be lowering our expenses, sure, but what about the goverment? Taxes? Jobs for people working in healthcare? Not to mention an explosion in litigation from potential malpractice.

Why do you think we're not paying for people working in healthcare now through our healthcare costs? Does it all just exists in some free magical free-enterprise vacuum?

[spoon]

And you still haven't found the post in which I call Governor Christie "corrupt"?

Keep looking...

He's now going with "vilify"...come on stupid!

Oh and this whole epo can't comment or come from a logical point of view on an issue, which is very universal in this ountry, bc he's not in NJ is INSANE and a cop out. He's involved in the discussion bc of his beliefs and you'd rather not have him here simply bc it differs from your own view? Truthfully, that's all I see when people cry about where he lives. It just means you can't stand on your arguments in a debate from a guy 2000/900 miles away so you just yell outsider. He can't possibly understand the complex differences in another state in the same country in this day and age right?! Hopefully he'll read my smoke signal post, or get my western union telegram in a few weeks.

[spoon]

My wages aren't shitty. I'm just not that self-entitled, and I understand how the economics of healthcare and benefits work. If we all received those benefits, the socioeconomic problems we face right now would be much, much worse.

Or possibly we wouldn't be paying healthcare execs multi-million dollar salaries and bonuses every year. Perhaps the money would go toward healthcare, and actual changes for the good would happen with the system if not bogged down by almost useless managed care gate keepers.

[spoon]

I ain't citing shit, as I'm watching the football game. But I will say this, I do communications for a health care provider and you'd be shocked to see the amount of unnecessary expense is in the system because of lack of access and prevention.

yes

[spoon]

http://www.good.is/post/cost-of-health-care-by-country-as-compared-to-life-expectancy/

This graphic is absolutely amazing. Why do you think this is? How much do you think health care costs the individual in Japan? Why do you think it's a lot cheaper? Do you think the quality is worse? Again, my wife is in Japan and we have health insurance (I work for a great company). It would be MUCH cheaper to get sick in Japan than here, EVEN MINUS my monthly health insurance costs.

In my opinion, people who think like you are the bad foundation. You believe that the people who are getting healthcare are the problem, not the other way around.

pathetic to say the least

it's amazing the US is still even close to the avg world life expectancy

paying that type money, our average should be at 97 years

[foodcourtdruide]

pathetic to say the least

it's amazing the US is still even close to the avg world life expectancy

paying that type money, our average should be at 97 years

The graphic obviously doesn't tell the whole story. Maybe we have more obesity, which contributes to healthcare costs, maybe we simply go to the doctor more often. But we are CLEARLY doing something VERY VERY WRONG.

[Zorro]

And yet still, I don't see a yes/no answer from you.

And I mock Governor Christie because I think he's a goon.

Wow...calling an overwieght italian guy a goon, now that's unique

[Zorro]

http://www.good.is/post/cost-of-health-care-by-country-as-compared-to-life-expectancy/

This graphic is absolutely amazing. Why do you think this is? How much do you think health care costs the individual in Japan? Why do you think it's a lot cheaper? Do you think the quality is worse? Again, my wife is in Japan and we have health insurance (I work for a great company). It would be MUCH cheaper to get sick in Japan than here, EVEN MINUS my monthly health insurance costs.

In my opinion, people who think like you are the bad foundation. You believe that the people who are getting healthcare are the problem, not the other way around.

Japanese physicians do not have to work under the threat of constant lawsuits forcing them to practice defensive medicine. How you can pass legislation that does not address medical malpractice and call it reform is beyond me.

[foodcourtdruide]

Japanese physicians do not have to work under the threat of constant lawsuits forcing them to practice defensive medicine. How you can pass legislation that does not address medical malpractice and call it reform is beyond me.

Eh, I don't know if I buy this as the huge difference. This was a pretty brilliant comment from an article in NYT at the time when the debate was hot:

"As the cost of health care goes up, the medical liability component of it has stayed fairly constant. "

http://prescriptions.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/08/31/would-tort-reform-lower-health-care-costs/

Also, was medical malpractice addressed in the healthcare legislation that passed recently? I recall Obama embracing the republican ideas on Tort Reform.

[TripleSkeet]

The graphic obviously doesn't tell the whole story. Maybe we have more obesity, which contributes to healthcare costs, maybe we simply go to the doctor more often. But we are CLEARLY doing something VERY VERY WRONG.

It cant be that. According to that chart the average # of Dr. visits a year for the US is under 4. Where Japan is at 12 or more.

[Pitdoc]

Japanese physicians do not have to work under the threat of constant lawsuits forcing them to practice defensive medicine. How you can pass legislation that does not address medical malpractice and call it reform is beyond me.

Contrary to conservative beliefs , medical malpractice reform is not going to save healthcare. Its a small part
( but it SHOULD be done, going to arbitration boards, but the people who can change that are lawyers,so don't hold your breath) .The real change is when we DO go to a national form of healthcare. The real reason for rising healthcare is that 1. American lifestyle creates a patient with a lot more health problems ( yes, we're fat , lazy and eat crummy) 2. As long as healthcare is based on the PROFIT MARGIN , we are screwed. % of regular insurance premiums that go for "Administration" at insurance companies ? 30%. Same administration at Medicare? 2%. That difference is profit for these companies and the major reason why a lot of Americans are uninsured or going broke from healthcare. if they had just pushed Medicare for all,it would have STILL been better for everyone.

[Zorro]

Contrary to conservative beliefs , medical malpractice reform is not going to save healthcare. Its a small part
( but it SHOULD be done, going to arbitration boards, but the people who can change that are lawyers,so don't hold your breath) .The real change is when we DO go to a national form of healthcare. The real reason for rising healthcare is that 1. American lifestyle creates a patient with a lot more health problems ( yes, we're fat , lazy and eat crummy) 2. As long as healthcare is based on the PROFIT MARGIN , we are screwed. % of regular insurance premiums that go for "Administration" at insurance companies ? 30%. Same administration at Medicare? 2%. That difference is profit for these companies and the major reason why a lot of Americans are uninsured or going broke from healthcare. if they had just pushed Medicare for all,it would have STILL been better for everyone.

Medicare is the greatest governement program ever created as long as you don't need it. Because once you do it sucks. Waits for Doctors and tests are inteminably long. Supplemental coverage to try and speed the process runs more the $500 a month. On top of all that many of the best Doctors won't take it because they can't make a living with reimbursement rates that are artificially low.

BTW...I could find no factual basis for the 30% profit claim you make.

[Pitdoc]

Medicare is the greatest governement program ever created as long as you don't need it. Because once you do it sucks. Waits for Doctors and tests are inteminably long. Supplemental coverage to try and speed the process runs more the $500 a month. On top of all that many of the best Doctors won't take it because they can't make a living with reimbursement rates that are artificially low.

BTW...I could find no factual basis for the 30% profit claim you make.

I said ADMINISTRATION, not profits.However, that's where the profit comes from with private insurance(and I don't mean they make 30% profit) . Medicare isn't IN it for a profit, which is one reason why their administrative fees are so low.
Still, one way it keeps that administration low is to low ball everything. Low compensation to doctors, hospitals, etc. But insurance companies are no better. Turn around time for reimbursement could take years.Still, it's a DEFINATE payment, while insurance companies will try to find any way to refuse to pay your claim. Medicare was never meant to pay EVERYTHING, just about 80% of everything. The insurance companies make up the difference. One of the reasons healthcare in those socialized systems is so low is because they pay doctors next to nothing, about what a bank branch manager makes . There was a great show on PBS base ona book ,where a guy goes around & looks at national healthcare in several countries, and that is a constant; those docs get paid not that much.

[epo]

Christie: 'You're not entitled to know everything I do' (http://videos.nj.com/star-ledger/2011/09/christie_youre_not_entitled_to.html)

Following revelations that Gov. Chris Christie met privately with billionaire oil tycoon and conservative financier David Koch earlier this year and then headlined a closed meeting of conservatives in Colorado hosted by Koch and his brother in June, Christie has angrily defended his right not to publicly disclose his schedule for events not related to his office. Speaking to reporters during a press conference in Bergenfield on education reform, Christie again stated that he would not reveal events he attends in his personal time.

Keep it up buddy, you'll be in the private sector soon enough.

[spoon]

Christie: 'You're not entitled to know everything I do' (http://videos.nj.com/star-ledger/2011/09/christie_youre_not_entitled_to.html)



Keep it up buddy, you'll be in the private sector soon enough.

Can we just put him in home and forget about him completely? I don't even want him in the private sector.

[A.J.]

Christie: 'You're not entitled to know everything I do' (http://videos.nj.com/star-ledger/2011/09/christie_youre_not_entitled_to.html)

Get him Wikileaks!

[spoon]

Get him Wikileaks!

no worries, christie wears diapers I'm sure

















abooooo to me!

[keithy_19]

Can we just put him in home and forget about him completely? I don't even want him in the private sector.

He is a public figure, but if his meeting are not involved with his public position, does he have to divulge information about them?

[spoon]

He is a public figure, but if his meeting are not involved with his public position, does he have to divulge information about them?

No, but with the Koch brothers do you really think it had nothing to do with his office and others in NJ?

[Tenbatsuzen]

No, but with the Koch brothers do you really think it had nothing to do with his office and others in NJ?

It's all part of "For the love of God please run for president" thing.

Also: Loretta Weinberg double dips, and also is a pawn of the NJEA. So let's not go overboard.

He wasn't on state business, the trip wasn't paid for by taxpayer money, Loretta is just fucking bitter.

[Recyclerz]

Looks like Christie's predecessor has gotten himself into a wee bit o' trouble (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=141908262)

And when I say wee I mean lots. Corzine made the mistake of using gov't. accounting tricks when he returned to the private sector. Oops!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy.

[Tenbatsuzen]

Looks like Christie's predecessor has gotten himself into a wee bit o' trouble (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=141908262)

And when I say wee I mean lots. Corzine made the mistake of using gov't. accounting tricks when he returned to the private sector. Oops!



http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-CAgZ1wriBv0/TZGTHQxmnDI/AAAAAAAACq8/W7gvmo6nyws/s1600/king-of-comedy_jerry.jpg

Epo, comment?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

M F Global

That explains it all

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Interesting article about Sarbannes Oxley Dodd Frank and the MF Global scandal

http://pointsandfigures.com/2011/11/04/mf-global-and-sarbanes-oxley-dodd-frank/

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Corzine just doesnt know where the money is.


http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2011/12/corzine-at-a-loss-to-explain-missing-1-2b/

How the fuck does 1.2 billion get lost? Prime brokers have compliance departments as well as back office operations to reconcile the firms general ledgers to outside banks and other custodians of securities.

[hanso]

Christie clams 'No Homo'!

Christie Vetoes Marriage Equality Bill

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-02-17/christie-vetoes-gay-marriage-setting-up-n-j-override-fight.html

[Judge Smails]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/wHN0ZeS5c-4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[hanso]

New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie announced Thursday that his state intends to allow betting on sporting events, in defiance of a federal law against sports gambling, according to multiple reports

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/governor-says-nj-will-implement-sports-betting-on-its-own-defying-federal-ban-on-it/2012/05/24/gJQA6XfUoU_story.html

The Goombas must have got to him "Hey, yo!"

[Silent Beard]

New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie announced Thursday that his state intends to allow betting on sporting events, in defiance of a federal law against sports gambling, according to multiple reports

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/governor-says-nj-will-implement-sports-betting-on-its-own-defying-federal-ban-on-it/2012/05/24/gJQA6XfUoU_story.html

The Goombas must have got to him "Hey, yo!" Talk about racist!