~ Espn ~

[spoon]

Doc does not have near enough sampling to be judged.



I was told he couldn't handle it and he would have to prove himself in big spots. He had the second ever no-hitter his first start ever in the playoffs, one walk away from a perfect game and went 2-1 in his first stint (one loss in ace matchup vs Lincecum). He avenged the loss to Lincecum in which he was beaten by one guy, Ross, in game 5. Oh and somehow Halladay went 2/6 for a .333 playoff batting average. I'm sure that one will take a dip this year, but I fully expect him to be pretty awesome as usual in the 2011 postseason.

[Kevin]

What the FUCK are you talking about? Are you even a fucking Yankee fan? Pettite shit the bed in Game 6, not Mussina. Mussina fucked up in Game 1 but pitched well in 5.

Relax there internts musckels. We are all having a civilized argument here.

Its 10yrs ago I don't have it off the top of my head. I bet you looked it up. He was still terrible game 1 which is a huge game, ESP with an underdog Zona team going up against a dynasty three consecutive years World Champs. That gave them an important jump start to the series.

He still was a big part of that loss.

[Kevin]

Thanks for proving my point Kev. Halladay has a huge sample size, he just started in the playoffs later in his career and if he has some issues now he's not worthy? Come on. He's a top 10 or better pitcher for in all of MLB for over a decade now, but bc he's not lucky enough to start on NYY or willing enough to jump ship for the money early enough to get a larger sampling size for you and some voters I'm sure he still has something to prove? I guess if he stayed in Toronto and never got to the playoffs he'd never even have a shot and it would be right then. Hell, he's far from a lock just yet too, but it's surely NOT bc he has to prove to you or others he can do it 5 years in the playoffs.


If he never got the chance then no it shoud not hurt or help him.

I'm saying if you are there enough times then you will be hurt or elevated by what you do there.

[Kevin]

And lets not act like Doc is now in a lowly low market team now.

That team is real good from top to bottom top 3 with Boston NY.

[spoon]

And lets not act like Doc is now in a lowly low market team now.

That team is real good from top to bottom top 3 with Boston NY.

What's your point? Who said his current team is a low market team now?

In his first playoff game he didn't allow a hit Kev. That has little to do with his team in at least that playoff game. It's not like people are screaming for him to get a Cy bc of wins over a guy with superior stats, hell pitching like last year in the Felix vs CC debate. I'm really not sure why him now being on the phils played into this argument at all. Of course he'll get his playoff shots now, as he did last year bc he was traded from Toronto to Philly. Yet he took less money to be in Toronto for years and did the same for the Phils, which was why they ended up moving Lee who basically said at that point he was going to want max dollars.

[Tenbatsuzen]

Relax there internts musckels. We are all having a civilized argument here.

Its 10yrs ago I don't have it off the top of my head. I bet you looked it up. He was still terrible game 1 which is a huge game, ESP with an underdog Zona team going up against a dynasty three consecutive years World Champs. That gave them an important jump start to the series.

He still was a big part of that loss.

Your entire point was that he was the AJ Burnett of that series, when he was nowhere close.

The entire lynchpin of that series was Game 6 when Andy failed to put them away.

[Tenbatsuzen]

Halladay's ERA is over 3. Nobody in the modern era with no "earned" rings has less than 300 wins and 3+ ERA and is in the Hall.

Blyleven needed 14 ballots to get in.

Tommy John's not in.

Kaat's not in. (ring was barely earned)

At 184 wins, he needs at least 6 more 20 win seasons (at age 34) to make 300+.

[Kevin]

Your entire point was that he was the AJ Burnett of that series, when he was nowhere close.

The entire lynchpin of that series was Game 6 when Andy failed to put them away.


My point is you could have pointed out I was wrong and leave it at that
Not be a dick about it.

That GM 1 start was huge too.

[Tenbatsuzen]

My point is you could have pointed out I was wrong and leave it at that
Not be a dick about it.

That GM 1 start was huge too.

Stop. Game 1 was in Arizona. And the Yankees offense was NON EXISTENT.

[Kevin]

What's your point? Who said his current team is a low market team now?

In his first playoff game he didn't allow a hit Kev. That has little to do with his team in at least that playoff game. It's not like people are screaming for him to get a Cy bc of wins over a guy with superior stats, hell pitching like last year in the Felix vs CC debate. I'm really not sure why him now being on the phils played into this argument at all. Of course he'll get his playoff shots now, as he did last year bc he was traded from Toronto to Philly. Yet he took less money to be in Toronto for years and did the same for the Phils, which was why they ended up moving Lee who basically said at that point he was going to want max dollars.

I'm just saying he has all the tools team and ability to do it.

You are not getting the point I'm trying to make. Maybe it's my fault and I'm. Not explaining it right.

My point is.

If you have the chance to pitch in a lot of post season games, then it should not hurt you or matter.

My point is if you are lucky enough to be in the post season alot then what you do in it should then have an impact on your career. Good or bad.

Mo is considered the best because of his postseason mostly.

Is that fair to Hoffman and others that they weren't lucky enough to be on the Yankeees. Probably.

Does that make them not great pitchers? No

But on the other hand if Mo was mediocre to bad in the postseason then he probably would not be considered the best.

Its a risk reward thing.

[Kevin]

Stop. Game 1 was in Arizona. And the Yankees offense was NON EXISTENT.

It was 9-1 not 1-0 2-1

[Tenbatsuzen]

I think the era of seeing 300+ wins is over, to be honest. The closest two are CC and Halladay.

That said, here are some interesting cases for discussing:

Curt Schilling
Pedro Martinez
John Smoltz

All have rings, Schilling has 3.

Yet all have under 220 wins, but have over 3000 Ks. Every pitcher who has 3000+ K's who is eligible is in.

Pedro's ERA is under 3, Smoltz and Schilling are under 3.5.

The one thing that sets Smoltz apart is the 150 saves. You can compare him to Eckersley in that regard, but Eckersley has almost 400 saves.

[Kevin]

If Pedro does not make the HOF 1st ballot and upper 90s %. Then there should not be a HOF.

HE should get 100 but you know some douches will vote no just because.

[Tenbatsuzen]

It was 9-1 not 1-0 2-1

when Mussina left the game it was 5-1 and only 3 of those runs were earned.

[Tenbatsuzen]

If Pedro does not make the HOF 1st ballot and upper 90s %. Then there should not be a HOF.

HE should get 100 but you know some douches will vote no just because.

House Rules of the BBWAA: Gehrig didn't get 100 percent, so no one gets 100 percent. Ever.

[spoon]

Halladay's ERA is over 3. Nobody in the modern era with no "earned" rings has less than 300 wins and 3+ ERA and is in the Hall.

Blyleven needed 14 ballots to get in.

Tommy John's not in.

Kaat's not in. (ring was barely earned)

At 184 wins, he needs at least 6 more 20 win seasons (at age 34) to make 300+.

The problem is you're comparing eras as if they are even close to the same, and a career half over (11 years old) versus those 22,23 and 26 years long. The pitchers you mention have ~.540 win percentages and no Cy Young, while Halladay ALREADY has 2 (one in each league and a top candidate this year again) and .670 win percentage.

He's CLEARLY a more dominant pitcher of his era/overall and your argument is under water. Your use of borderline HOF pitchers to limit Halladay's value only made him look even more impressive in my analysis. The only factor he's missing is a few more years and it's clear he's a dedicated/regimented will help him later in his career even more than currently. So I'm going to go out on a limb here and project he's on a clear path to the HOF here. I'm biased sure, I admit he's one of my all-time fans to this day. Still, his career is on the HOF path and he is a better pitcher now than HOF BB ever was, 7th ballot and all.

[spoon]

I'm just saying he has all the tools team and ability to do it.

You are not getting the point I'm trying to make. Maybe it's my fault and I'm. Not explaining it right.

My point is.

If you have the chance to pitch in a lot of post season games, then it should not hurt you or matter.

My point is if you are lucky enough to be in the post season alot then what you do in it should then have an impact on your career. Good or bad.

Mo is considered the best because of his postseason mostly.

Is that fair to Hoffman and others that they weren't lucky enough to be on the Yankeees. Probably.

Does that make them not great pitchers? No

But on the other hand if Mo was mediocre to bad in the postseason then he probably would not be considered the best.

Its a risk reward thing.

Mo would be regardless of his postseason unless he was just FUCKING AWFUL. His season numbers are even more impressive over time to me than his ability to do it in a handful of games in the postseason. He does his thing year in and year out to unreal levels. That in itself puts the rest before him in his rearview mirror in the regular season easily. Postseason wasn't needed to make that call for me. As I said before, it just took it to another level/validated him again. Yet a few iffy postseasons wouldn't make me think he's not HOF or the top guy at the position ever. He'd just have a postseason issue.

[Tenbatsuzen]

The problem is you're comparing eras as if they are even close to the same, and a career half over (11 years old) versus those 22,23 and 26 years long. The pitchers you mention have ~.540 win percentages and no Cy Young, while Halladay ALREADY has 2 (one in each league and a top candidate this year again) and .670 win percentage.

He's CLEARLY a more dominant pitcher of his era/overall and your argument is under water. Your use of borderline HOF pitchers to limit Halladay's value only made him look even more impressive in my analysis. The only factor he's missing is a few more years and it's clear he's a dedicated/regimented will help him later in his career even more than currently. So I'm going to go out on a limb here and project he's on a clear path to the HOF here. I'm biased sure, I admit he's one of my all-time fans to this day. Still, his career is on the HOF path and he is a better pitcher now than HOF BB ever was, 7th ballot and all.

I wasn't making an argument whether Doc should be in or not; I was just pointing out some relevant facts for the case.

I think it basically comes down to this:

If Roy gets a ring, he'll be in at 250 wins.

If he doesn't get a ring, he's gonna have to fight for wins and K's.

[Kevin]

Mo would be regardless of his postseason unless he was just FUCKING AWFUL. His season numbers are even more impressive over time to me than his ability to do it in a handful of games in the postseason. He does his thing year in and year out to unreal levels. That in itself puts the rest before him in his rearview mirror in the regular season easily. Postseason wasn't needed to make that call for me. As I said before, it just took it to another level/validated him again. Yet a few iffy postseasons wouldn't make me think he's not HOF or the top guy at the position ever. He'd just have a postseason issue.

I agree

Mo is prob the dead wrong guy to use.

What if it was someone borderline in your opinion.

Would a good or bad post season career shift you one way or another?

[Tenbatsuzen]

This will sound kinda stupid and forward-looking, but if Cano keeps up his level of production for another 7-10 years, he's in. He's a bonafide superstar who hits for power and average, he's on the Yankees until 2013 at least.

[Tenbatsuzen]

I agree

Mo is prob the dead wrong guy to use.

What if it was someone borderline in your opinion.

Would a good or bad post season career shift you one way or another?

Greg Maddux is a lock and is 11-14 in the playoffs. Tom Glavine was 14-16.

Steve Carlton was 6-6 in the playoffs.

I think the person you want to use for this comparison is Andy Pettite.

240 wins. Five rings. 19-10 in the playoffs.

I honestly think Andy would be a lock if it wasn't for the HGH issue.

The fact that Andy came clean on it and was totally repentant goes a long way, but I think he'll have a really tough time getting in.

[Dirtbag]

House Rules of the BBWAA: Gehrig didn't get 100 percent, so no one gets 100 percent. Ever.I've always wondered how they decide who the asshole who doesn't vote for guys like Nolan Ryan gets to be.

[Kevin]

Greg Maddux is a lock and is 11-14 in the playoffs. Tom Glavine was 14-16.

Steve Carlton was 6-6 in the playoffs.

I think the person you want to use for this comparison is Andy Pettite.

240 wins. Five rings. 19-10 in the playoffs.

I honestly think Andy would be a lock if it wasn't for the HGH issue.

The fact that Andy came clean on it and was totally repentant goes a long way, but I think he'll have a really tough time getting in.

Good example on Andy.

The HGH really does hurt.

I'd also like to stupdy his stats more like ERA and run support.

[Kevin]

I actually think the perfect example on 2 players that got helped and killed on post season and rings.

Mattingly Puckett.

Numbers are very similar.

Puckett got in for two main reasons.

Playoffs/wins

And I also think Pucketts stats are more impressive as a CF than 1B.

But the rings and postseasons I think were the main reason.

[spoon]

Greg Maddux is a lock and is 11-14 in the playoffs. Tom Glavine was 14-16.

Steve Carlton was 6-6 in the playoffs.

I think the person you want to use for this comparison is Andy Pettite.

240 wins. Five rings. 19-10 in the playoffs.

I honestly think Andy would be a lock if it wasn't for the HGH issue.

The fact that Andy came clean on it and was totally repentant goes a long way, but I think he'll have a really tough time getting in.

He was FAR FROM coming clean on it. First off it was in response to his name being mentioned in the Mitchell report, not him offering it up for the good of the game. Next, he claimed it was only when injured taking HGH twice in 2002. If you believe that shit I just can't help you at this point. Mike Jacobs came clean on his use, taking full blame the other day, not Andy Petite.

Also, he almost NEVER matched up against other team's aces and was a great 2/3 guy on pretty much every team he played. Did he come up big in the playoffs for the yanks at times when needed? Sure, but who doesn't if they play with that fucking team...see brett fucking boone and luis sojo. Not to mention how many times it could have been a little enhanced performance in the end. Oh that's right, only hgh twice in 2002...conveniently a year where they didn't win the WS and he had what he believed was a good enough reason to cheat.

[Kevin]

This will sound kinda stupid and forward-looking, but if Cano keeps up his level of production for another 7-10 years, he's in. He's a bonafide superstar who hits for power and average, he's on the Yankees until 2013 at least.

Like Puckett I think his pos might be a big boost.

I'm gunna have to throw Padrioa in that convo too. Especially with an MVP and ring under his belt

[spoon]

Oh and how many of those wins were a product of, as Kevin likes to put it, a top level team and not just his ability as a pitcher. I'm sure there's an equation out there to predict his stats on other average teams or worse. In fact, even moving to a good team in the NL making the NL championship game and WS in 2/3 years and his win% there went down from .644 to .587. What would you expect of his stats if he just stayed in Houston, much less a weaker team at the time versus the yankeess. His rings do little for me overall. I'm a yankee hater, and even more so despise cheating, but I don't unfairly judge players based on their merit and history, much less what team they played with.

Petite is a HUGE no for me bc he wasn't even the ace of his staff, much less a dominant pitcher of his era for any length of time. The other pitchers Tenbat's mentioned early deserve it so much more. Hell, Pedro would be the #2 Cy winner of all time to Randy Johnson if Clemens didn't steal his with injections late in his career. The guy was so fucking amazing in his prime and could probably still be above .500, but then again wins are a way overvalued stat in evaluating a pitcher's place in the game. Writers are finally figuring this out.

[Tenbatsuzen]

I actually think the perfect example on 2 players that got helped and killed on post season and rings.

Mattingly Puckett.

Numbers are very similar.

Puckett got in for two main reasons.

Playoffs/wins

And I also think Pucketts stats are more impressive as a CF than 1B.

But the rings and postseasons I think were the main reason.

Mattingly played two more seasons than Puckett and Kirby had to retire because he got blinded on the field.

I agree the rings go a long way, but it's also a personality thing. The writers loved Kirby. Even though if Mojo was here, he'd destroy his character and call him a rapist again.

[Snacks]

I actually think the perfect example on 2 players that got helped and killed on post season and rings.

Mattingly Puckett.

Numbers are very similar.

Puckett got in for two main reasons.

Playoffs/wins

And I also think Pucketts stats are more impressive as a CF than 1B.

But the rings and postseasons I think were the main reason.

neither deserves the hof and if im not mistaken pucket got in only after he died? i think it was more a memorial for him that shouldnt have happened. they dont have hall #s especially mattingly coming from a power position. he has the glove and 1 hr season title but then his power #s died off. imo he wont ever get in unless the get him in like they did skooter who is another guy who has no business in the hof.

[Snacks]

He was FAR FROM coming clean on it. First off it was in response to his name being mentioned in the Mitchell report, not him offering it up for the good of the game. Next, he claimed it was only when injured taking HGH twice in 2002. If you believe that shit I just can't help you at this point. Mike Jacobs came clean on his use, taking full blame the other day, not Andy Petite.

Also, he almost NEVER matched up against other team's aces and was a great 2/3 guy on pretty much every team he played. Did he come up big in the playoffs for the yanks at times when needed? Sure, but who doesn't if they play with that fucking team...see brett fucking boone and luis sojo. Not to mention how many times it could have been a little enhanced performance in the end. Oh that's right, only hgh twice in 2002...conveniently a year where they didn't win the WS and he had what he believed was a good enough reason to cheat.

and it also came out later that he did it more then he admitted to. i dont understand why petite gets a pass from everyone? i dont care about anyone who did steroids, me and spoon totally disagree on this but i wouldnt care if they were still doing them. that being said i hate the double standard and the hypocrisy with this issue when it comes to everyone else and petite gets a pass all the time.

[spoon]

Like Puckett I think his pos might be a big boost.

I'm gunna have to throw Padrioa in that convo too. Especially with an MVP and ring under his belt

Jesus, Cano and Pedroia? You guys might want to revisit this conversation in 7 years or so. Now we're just getting fucking crazy as both have about 5 full seasons under their belts. Should I just add Brett Lawrie to the conversation at this point? He's had a great first two weeks and all...come on man! Brettward 40 hands for MVP/HOF!

[spoon]

And again it comes down to domination at your position and leading your teams for a set time for me being a huge factor overall. Puckett was a GG and Silver Slugger compiler and was the face of that team. Too bad about his vision killing his career early and then his untimely death.

10× All-Star selection (1986, 1987, 1988, 1989, 1990, 1991, 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995)
2× World Series champion (1987, 1991)
6× Gold Glove Award winner (1986, 1987, 1988, 1989, 1991, 1992)
6× Silver Slugger Award winner (1986, 1987, 1988, 1989, 1992, 1994)
1991 ALCS MVP
1993 MLB All-Star Game MVP
1993 Branch Rickey Award
1996 Roberto Clemente Award
Minnesota Twins #34 retired

[Snoogans]

since we are gettin all crazy, id like to throw Anthony Ranaudo in on the future HOF player discussion

He is a 21 year old who is currently tearing up single A Salem in the cape cod league. His future stats look incredible

[Tenbatsuzen]

neither deserves the hof and if im not mistaken pucket got in only after he died? i think it was more a memorial for him that shouldnt have happened. they dont have hall #s especially mattingly coming from a power position. he has the glove and 1 hr season title but then his power #s died off. imo he wont ever get in unless the get him in like they did skooter who is another guy who has no business in the hof.

Elected first ballot 2001, died 2006.

[spoon]

since we are gettin all crazy, id like to throw Anthony Ranaudo in on the future HOF player discussion

He is a 21 year old who is currently tearing up single A Salem in the cape cod league. His future stats look incredible

I just had my two week player on the Jays suggestion CRUSHED!

I'll see your Ranaudo and raise you a 16 Venezuelan Jay prospect Adonis Cardona! He is already hitting mid-90s with his fastball is is around 6' 4" 180! Sure fire HOF if I ever saw one. Hell he even has a thumb ring for Kevin!

[spoon]

Elected first ballot 2001, died 2006.

Funny Tenbats brought up Gehrig earlier, bc even though Puckett was mid-30s, he was still on top of the game when his lost vision in one eye. He batted at least .314 4 of his last 5 years (the one under at .296) and led the league in rbis the year prior to his retirement. I think THIS had more to do with it overall, bc he was surely going to continue with some pretty fucking solid numbers w/o said eye issue for at least a few more years.

[Tenbatsuzen]

I just had my two week player on the Jays suggestion CRUSHED!

I'll see your Ranaudo and raise you a 16 Venezuelan Jay prospect Adonis Cardona! He is already hitting mid-90s with his fastball is is around 6' 4" 180! Sure fire HOF if I ever saw one. Hell he even has a thumb ring for Kevin!

Pat Venditte. PITCHES FROM BOTH SIDES MOTHERFUCKERS. 300 wins right, 800 saves left!

[spoon]

Pat Venditte. PITCHES FROM BOTH SIDES MOTHERFUCKERS. 300 wins right, 800 saves left!

Let's be honest though, that is pretty fucking awesome and hope to see it work on some level in MLB!

[Tenbatsuzen]

Funny Tenbats brought up Gehrig earlier, bc even though Puckett was mid-30s, he was still on top of the game when his lost vision in one eye. He batted at least .314 4 of his last 5 years (the one under at .296) and led the league in rbis the year prior to his retirement. I think THIS had more to do with it overall, bc he was surely going to continue with some pretty fucking solid numbers w/o said eye issue for at least a few more years.

Wasn't he blinded because he got hit in the eye with a ball twice?

I remember a story where Kirby was doing color on an ESPN broadcast and someone came to the plate who had gotten hit recently and was wearing some sort of facial protection. Kirby was amazed by it and said something to the effect of, "I wish I had known about that, I'd still be playing today."

[Tenbatsuzen]

Let's be honest though, that is pretty fucking awesome and hope to see it work on some level in MLB!

Sabathia is actually right-handed, his father made him throw lefty.

That said, Venditte is kinda noodly-armed from both sides. I doubt he's going to be much in the majors.

[spoon]

Sabathia is actually right-handed, his father made him throw lefty.

That said, Venditte is kinda noodly-armed from both sides. I doubt he's going to be much in the majors.

I pretty much have read he's not so solid as a lefty, and even on his stronger side (righty) he's lacking in many areas at this point.

[spoon]

Wasn't he blinded because he got hit in the eye with a ball twice?

I remember a story where Kirby was doing color on an ESPN broadcast and someone came to the plate who had gotten hit recently and was wearing some sort of facial protection. Kirby was amazed by it and said something to the effect of, "I wish I had known about that, I'd still be playing today."

I didn't think so and it seems I remembered correctly. Here's what I found.

On September 28, 1995, Puckett was hit in the face by a Dennis Martinez fastball, leaving him bloodied with a shattered jaw. The injury marked the end of both his season and, as it turned out, his career. The following spring Puckett batted .360, but on March 28, the last day of training camp, he woke up unable to see out of his right eye. He was diagnosed with glaucoma, and four eye surgeries in a four-month span did nothing to improve his vision. On July 12, 1996, Puckett, wearing a white patch over his right eye, announced his retirement from baseball. He was 36 years old.

[Snacks]

Elected first ballot 2001, died 2006.

how did he get elected 1st ballot? thats just wrong. I understand guys that had shortened careers due to injury sometimes get in but guys like Pujols who would get in right now if his career was over because he is a beast. But pucket hit for great avg and everything else was decent. he was never a power, guy, never a big rbi or runs guy even though had a couple of years that he went over the 100 rbis mark. he wasnt a speed guy he was just an above avg player. im shocked he got in 1st ballot.

[Tenbatsuzen]

how did he get elected 1st ballot?

80 percent of the Baseball Writers Association of America wrote "Kirby Puckett" on a piece of paper.

[Kevin]

Jesus, Cano and Pedroia? You guys might want to revisit this conversation in 7 years or so. Now we're just getting fucking crazy as both have about 5 full seasons under their belts. Should I just add Brett Lawrie to the conversation at this point? He's had a great first two weeks and all...come on man! Brettward 40 hands for MVP/HOF!

I was not saying they are worthy now.

I was saying that if you were going to say Cano is on track then you have to put in Padrioa in also.

[foodcourtdruide]

posada is in.

One, he played for the yankees. 2, he hit VERY VERY well for a catcher, probably better than most HOF catchers. Even if he wasnt a yankee, i think he has done plenty as a catcher to get in. Go look at the offensive stats of catchers who are in the hall and you will be shocked at the lack of numbers

Disagree. He hit very well for a catcher, don't get me wrong. He's a fantastic player and had a great career. However, for most of his career as a catcher he's been a defensive liability. If he was a great defensive catcher I'd say he'd be in. His number are not that great relative to the error he played in. At any point in his career was he the best catcher in baseball? He only went to 5 All-Star games in his career. I think players like Posada getting in water-own the hall of fame.

[Snoogans]

Disagree. He hit very well for a catcher, don't get me wrong. He's a fantastic player and had a great career. However, for most of his career as a catcher he's been a defensive liability. If he was a great defensive catcher I'd say he'd be in. His number are not that great relative to the error he played in. At any point in his career was he the best catcher in baseball? He only went to 5 All-Star games in his career. I think players like Posada getting in water-own the hall of fame.

Piazza was a brutal defensive catcher. I know his offense was better, but his defense was worse than posadas.

Also, so what if he wasnt the best catcher. You guys forget that the people who vote consider steroids. Jorge is gonna get votes wayyyy before pudge. Besides, was Chipper Jones ever the best 3rd baseman in baseball, no probably not. But he still might get in. it is possible for more than 1 HOFer to play the same position at the same time.

[Kevin]

Tom Glavine should get in just for that Met performance vs Fla alone.


Best pitched big game ever.

[Snoogans]

Posada at this moment career stats:

274 with 271 HRs, 1058 RBI, 378 doubles, and 1654 hits. I know hjis defense blew but, he smokes alot of other guys who are already in the HOF

Johnny bench played 17 years and hit 267. fisk only hit 269 and gary carter hit 262.

Again, the defense, but i think posada will get voted in, esp since he is a clean player. his numbers compare well enough that he will prob slide in. Then if you add the fact he played for the Yanks, he will be in there

[foodcourtdruide]

Piazza was a brutal defensive catcher. I know his offense was better, but his defense was worse than posadas.

Also, so what if he wasnt the best catcher. You guys forget that the people who vote consider steroids. Jorge is gonna get votes wayyyy before pudge. Besides, was Chipper Jones ever the best 3rd baseman in baseball, no probably not. But he still might get in. it is possible for more than 1 HOFer to play the same position at the same time.

You can only really judge a player relative to other players at their time. It makes no sense to compare Bench or Carter to Posada. If you started doing that, do you know how many SS you'd put in the HOF? The game changes, you can only judge a player relative to their own generation, which is why his never being the best catcher at the time is signficant.

Also, Piazza stunk at throwing runners out, but he was a good defensive catcher.

[Snoogans]

You can only really judge a player relative to other players at their time. It makes no sense to compare Bench or Carter to Posada. If you started doing that, do you know how many SS you'd put in the HOF? The game changes, you can only judge a player relative to their own generation, which is why his never being the best catcher at the time is signficant.

Also, Piazza stunk at throwing runners out, but he was a good defensive catcher.

see here is what you guys arent gettin, you are using your logic. Im using the voters logic. Every guy who has ever been voted in has been compared to guys from history. It just happens that way. It might not be right, but it happens that way.

But comparing him just against his peers gets him MORE help cause most of them were on roids and arent gonna get votes.

[foodcourtdruide]

see here is what you guys arent gettin, you are using your logic. Im using the voters logic. Every guy who has ever been voted in has been compared to guys from history. It just happens that way. It might not be right, but it happens that way.

But comparing him just against his peers gets him MORE help cause most of them were on roids and arent gonna get votes.

Ohhhh, sorry. I thought we were arguing if he DESERVED to get in or not.

[Snoogans]

Ohhhh, sorry. I thought we were arguing if he DESERVED to get in or not.

no, whether he will or not

[foodcourtdruide]

no, whether he will or not

I say will, but not within the first few ballots.

[Kevin]

I say will, but not within the first 4 ballots.

This has always been my pet peeve...

If you are not good enough to go on the first ballot, what the hell did you do between that time to be good enough to go 2nd 3rd 4th ballot.

You are either a HOF or you're not.

[cougarjake13]

This has always been my pet peeve...

If you are not good enough to go on the first ballot, what the hell did you do between that time to be good enough to go 2nd 3rd 4th ballot.

You are either a HOF or you're not.

exactly

this is mine too


if he's a hall of famer he should get in first ballot and not the 3rd or 4th bc the first few had better players eligible and now this year theres no clear cut guy and they go ohh this guys worthy and vote him in

[Snacks]

This has always been my pet peeve...

If you are not good enough to go on the first ballot, what the hell did you do between that time to be good enough to go 2nd 3rd 4th ballot.

You are either a HOF or you're not.

exactly

this is mine too


if he's a hall of famer he should get in first ballot and not the 3rd or 4th bc the first few had better players eligible and now this year theres no clear cut guy and they go ohh this guys worthy and vote him in

exactly, i have always hated this. you are or you are not a HoF!

[cougarjake13]

they should have only 1 year of eligibility after that 5 yr waiting period


then your stats are either worthy or not

use whatever criteria you want but they either have them or dont

[epo]

If Jorge Posada is a Hall of Famer, they should lock the doors and burn the building down.

[Snoogans]

If Jorge Posada is a Hall of Famer, they should lock the doors and burn the building down.

joe namath


thats all i need to say

[epo]

joe namath


thats all i need to say

Thats a pox on the NFL. No need for baseball to also do something dumb.

[Tenbatsuzen]

Posada at this moment career stats:

274 with 271 HRs, 1058 RBI, 378 doubles, and 1654 hits. I know hjis defense blew but, he smokes alot of other guys who are already in the HOF

Johnny bench played 17 years and hit 267. fisk only hit 269 and gary carter hit 262.

Again, the defense, but i think posada will get voted in, esp since he is a clean player. his numbers compare well enough that he will prob slide in. Then if you add the fact he played for the Yanks, he will be in there

Bench, Fisk, and Carter all had a lot more home runs. And a lot more hits. That's the problem.



Regardingly Mattingly not getting in compared to Puckett, a friend of mine put it perfectly:

Being on the Yankees was a liability to Don's HOF case. He was supposed to win rings and didn't. If Mattingly played for the Cubs, his plaque would have been installed years ago.

[Snacks]

Bench, Fisk, and Carter all had a lot more home runs. And a lot more hits. That's the problem.



Regardingly Mattingly not getting in compared to Puckett, a friend of mine put it perfectly:

Being on the Yankees was a liability to Don's HOF case. He was supposed to win rings and didn't. If Mattingly played for the Cubs, his plaque would have been installed years ago.

you are kidding right? other then gg's what #s does he have to get him in the hall? remember hes a 1b not a ss.

[Tenbatsuzen]

you are kidding right? other then gg's what #s does he have to get him in the hall? remember hes a 1b not a ss.

We just had this conversation last night. Compare his numbers to Puckett's. Very similar.

[Snacks]

We just had this conversation last night. Compare his numbers to Puckett's. Very similar.

and yesterday I said I didnt think pucket should be in the hall either.

[Kevin]

Yea Neither is a HOF

[Earlshog]

I think the era of seeing 300+ wins is over, to be honest. The closest two are CC and Halladay.

That said, here are some interesting cases for discussing:

Curt Schilling
Pedro Martinez
John Smoltz

All have rings, Schilling has 3.

Yet all have under 220 wins, but have over 3000 Ks. Every pitcher who has 3000+ K's who is eligible is in.

Pedro's ERA is under 3, Smoltz and Schilling are under 3.5.

The one thing that sets Smoltz apart is the 150 saves. You can compare him to Eckersley in that regard, but Eckersley has almost 400 saves.

all three in....

Pedro Im not sure why this would be an interesting case? He is in first ballot without question.

Smoltz and Schillings post season numbers will be the deciding factor

[newport king]

I don't think the Little League World Series deserves its own thread, but some of these games have been terrific. Mexico's game yesterday was excellent, and Pennsylvania (home team) vs Kentucky (with Snoogans little brother Mclarty DEALING the other night) was another good one.

The Pennsylvania team gets about 42,000 people showing up. In contrast that's more than most MLB teams get.

[Snoogans]

I don't think the Little League World Series deserves its own thread, but some of these games have been terrific. Mexico's game yesterday was excellent, and Pennsylvania (home team) vs Kentucky (with Snoogans little brother Mclarty DEALING the other night) was another good one.

The Pennsylvania team gets about 42,000 people showing up. In contrast that's more than most MLB teams get.

i saw that during one of the regional final games. I was fuckin laughin my ass off.

[foodcourtdruide]

all three in....

Pedro Im not sure why this would be an interesting case? He is in first ballot without question.

Smoltz and Schillings post season numbers will be the deciding factor

Agreed. How is Pedro an interesting case? He's first ballot without question.

[newport king]

isnt that EXACTLY what he said?

[underdog]

all three in....

Pedro Im not sure why this would be an interesting case? He is in first ballot without question.

Smoltz and Schillings post season numbers will be the deciding factor

yeah, really don't get how Pedro is with those other two. A case could be made that Pedro was one of the most dominating pitchers of all time. Height of the steroid era, his ERAs were : 1.90, 2.89, 2.07, 1.74!

[foodcourtdruide]

isnt that EXACTLY what he said?

It was just such an outrageous comment it needed to be repeated.

[newport king]

The Canadian coach has annoyed me now in this game. He just being a dick to his catcher.

[cougarjake13]

The Canadian coach has annoyed me now in this game. He just being a dick to his catcher.

he thought he was a goalie

[spoon]

Man I really can't stand listening to Gruden. He's really just talking and saying nothing CONSTANTLY. He just said of Tom Coughlin, "He loves football...he loves where he is...and I just hope my son get to play for Coughlin". Greeeeeeeeeeat! Thanks for sharing Jon.

[cougarjake13]

Man I really can't stand listening to Gruden. He's really just talking and saying nothing CONSTANTLY. He just said of Tom Coughlin, "He loves football...he loves where he is...and I just hope my son get to play for Coughlin". Greeeeeeeeeeat! Thanks for sharing Jon.

didnt even know he had kids

[cougarjake13]

Man I really can't stand listening to Gruden. He's really just talking and saying nothing CONSTANTLY. He just said of Tom Coughlin, "He loves football...he loves where he is...and I just hope my son get to play for Coughlin". Greeeeeeeeeeat! Thanks for sharing Jon.

he really is becoming madden 2.0

[CountryBob]

Starting to get commonplace for ESPN to report on things that are not true. They have been reporting all about WVU going to the Big 12 like it was a done deal and now, the Big 12 has said hold on.

ESPN dosent give a damn if what they report is true or not and I just wish they would wait until things are official.

[Snoogans]

Starting to get commonplace for ESPN to report on things that are not true. They have been reporting all about WVU going to the Big 12 like it was a done deal and now, the Big 12 has said hold on.

ESPN dosent give a damn if what they report is true or not and I just wish they would wait until things are official.

apparently they said hold on cause Louisville is using some political muscle and personal relationships to big 12 people to try to steal that invite away

[ozzie]

Starting to get commonplace for ESPN to report on things that are not true.....

ESPN dosent give a damn if what they report is true or not and I just wish they would wait until things are official.

Cameron Newton and I agree with you.

[newport king]

U know what espn should show more? Poker. There just isnt enough of it on tv...to be fair they started it, then someone got the bright idea for this years main event "lets not show hole cards" it was the most boring television ever.

[spoon]

c'mon man!

REALLY?

SOOooooo fucking awful it's comical.

C'MON MAN!

[cougarjake13]

maybe shes had some work done or is wearing extra make up but

linda cohn is looking very bangable today

[JimBeam]

ESPN's First Take has had some form of Tim Tebow debate with Stephen A Smith and Skip Bayless all fuckin' week.

How could they hae not covered all of their points by now ? It's not that complex of a topic.

How could a producer at the #1 sports media outlet think this is good TV ?

The 2 clowns are polarizing enough and their extreme opinions on a silly topic dont help.

Kahnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn !!!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

So NBC Sports is rebranding versus and starting its own 24/7 sports channel to rival ESPN.

http://adage.com/article/mediaworks/nbc-sports-network-plans-a-long-game-espn/231447/


Don't think this will turn out well. I remember CNNSI in the early 2000's and that ended after a couple of years

[underdog]

ESPN's First Take has had some form of Tim Tebow debate with Stephen A Smith and Skip Bayless all fuckin' week.

How could they hae not covered all of their points by now ? It's not that complex of a topic.

How could a producer at the #1 sports media outlet think this is good TV ?

The 2 clowns are polarizing enough and their extreme opinions on a silly topic dont help.

Kahnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn !!!

Soon, ESPN Will Be Nothing But 24 Hours Of People Disagreeing With Skip Bayless (http://deadspin.com/5871669/soon-espn-will-be-nothing-but-24-hours-of-people-disagreeing-with-skip-bayless)

Also, when people support Colin Cowherd, this is the type of programming you're going to get.

[cougarjake13]

So NBC Sports is rebranding versus and starting its own 24/7 sports channel to rival ESPN.

http://adage.com/article/mediaworks/nbc-sports-network-plans-a-long-game-espn/231447/


Don't think this will turn out well. I remember CNNSI in the early 2000's and that ended after a couple of years



People may be sick enough of espns bullshit for this to actually work this time

[spoon]

plus nbc has ALWAYS been loaded with sports and now they just have a flagship

sorry, cnn was linked to TBS/TNN and the fucking braves only at the time





NBC has the NHL, Olympics, NBA, evening NFL, NCAA and soooo much more. I'm sure this channel has longevity and legs, bc it was fine already just being vs with fucking bull riding, hunting and tractor pulls.

[ozzie]

So NBC Sports is rebranding versus and starting its own 24/7 sports channel to rival ESPN.

http://adage.com/article/mediaworks/nbc-sports-network-plans-a-long-game-espn/231447/


Don't think this will turn out well. I remember CNNSI in the early 2000's and that ended after a couple of years

I don't remember seeing any "live" sports on CNN/SI. From what I remember, it was almost all "sportscenter" type hilight shows, and other talking heads. The only channel it competed with was ESPN News.

VS already has the NHL, and I've watched several college football games on there this year. I've already watched more hours on VS than I ever did on CNN/SI, even before this merger.

[weekapaugjz]

i'm also hoping the nbc sports channel is decent. i like their hockey coverage and have watched a few college football games as well. i hope they can use a good late night highlight show. i can't fucking stand sportscenter.

[spoon]

i'm also hoping the nbc sports channel is decent. i like their hockey coverage and have watched a few college football games as well. i hope they can use a good late night highlight show. i can't fucking stand sportscenter.

I want an NHL tonight type show too. I think that was actually one thing ESPN did quite well back in the day. Vs has something like it, but it's not that good and never on at a fixed time which I hate.

[cougarjake13]

NHL network has a good show

[weekapaugjz]

I want an NHL tonight type show too. I think that was actually one thing ESPN did quite well back in the day. Vs has something like it, but it's not that good and never on at a fixed time which I hate.

i'd love an 11-12 highlights show and a 12-1 nhl tonight. it would be perfect.

[Snacks]

I want an NHL tonight type show too. I think that was actually one thing ESPN did quite well back in the day. Vs has something like it, but it's not that good and never on at a fixed time which I hate.

i would think you will be getting this. vs is a hockey station right now and they will want to promote 1 of the sports they have that espn doesnt plus its a show that they can offer that espn no longer offers. i hope they have versions of baseball tonight and an nfl show i just dont want to see any chris berman types and hope they dont bring dungy over and give him a daily show. that man has the personality of a pebble.

[hanso]

NHL network has a good show

I don't get this one but watch the others MLB, NFL NBA over something like Sportscenter.

[cougarjake13]

U don't get NHL network ? On ur tv deal?

[hanso]

U don't get NHL network ? On ur tv deal?

It's not there. And I have no sports pack.

[disneyspy]

It's not there. I have no sports pack.

after this sunday,i drop mine,only got it for the redzone

[cougarjake13]

It's not there. And I have no sports pack.


I don't have one either it's just part of my normal cable package

[hanso]

after this sunday,i drop mine,only got it for the redzone

Mine dosn't have that it's made up of nesn type channels, YES etc. It's not much better.

I do have 5 espn channels though. Wanted classics before when I didn't have it, but don't even watch it. Funny how it works that way.

[King Imp]

Holy shit, you would think this was Favre Watch 2012 last night! Every 5 fucking minutes they kept cutting to either LSU's or Alabama's team bus driving on their way to the Superdome. For a game that is 5 fucking days away! Are you kidding me?

[Gutter]

Holy shit, you would think this was Favre Watch 2012 last night! Every 5 fucking minutes they kept cutting to either LSU's or Alabama's team bus driving on their way to the Superdome. For a game that is 5 fucking days away! Are you kidding me?

slow week in sports. Some college hoops stuff and hockey, but no Monday night football to carry them through Wednesday and they've already done about 4 days worth of coverage because Justin Tuck made a backhanded comment where he "sort of' called the Falcons dirtbags.

[ozzie]

Holy shit, you would think this was Favre Watch 2012 last night! Every 5 fucking minutes they kept cutting to either LSU's or Alabama's team bus driving on their way to the Superdome. For a game that is 5 fucking days away! Are you kidding me?

This is ESPN's "superbowl". They covered almost 30 other insignificant bowls, and spent a lot of money to get this thing. They need ratings and ad $ to cover their costs.

A good portion of the country was turned off by the BCS giving them two SEC teams in a re-match. The only ones that were really happy about this was people in bama and Louisiana, and there's not enough viewers in just those two states to bring in the ratings.

They're trying desperately to hype this game as much as possible as "the game of the century, part II" to bring back their college football fans, let alone drawing in people that don't normally watch the sport.

As Frank Cross told us, it's not enough that people want to watch. "They have to be so scared to miss it! So terrified!"

It would tickle me to death if the ratings for this travesty were their worst ever.

Fuck ESPN for supporting the BCS and trying to sell and promote the idea that this bullshit system "works".

If they allowed any of their employees to do legitimate sports reporting, the "BCS" and the NCAA would get hammered for this shit. But instead, they all preach and follow the company line, and try to convince us that this is a "real" championship.

[Snoogans]

This is ESPN's "superbowl". They covered almost 30 other insignificant bowls, and spent a lot of money to get this thing. They need ratings and ad $ to cover their costs.

A good portion of the country was turned off by the BCS giving them two SEC teams in a re-match. The only ones that were really happy about this was people in bama and Louisiana, and there's not enough viewers in just those two states to bring in the ratings.

They're trying desperately to hype this game as much as possible as "the game of the century, part II" to bring back their college football fans, let alone drawing in people that don't normally watch the sport.

As Frank Cross told us, it's not enough that people want to watch. "They have to be so scared to miss it! So terrified!"

It would tickle me to death if the ratings for this travesty were their worst ever.

Fuck ESPN for supporting the BCS and trying to sell and promote the idea that this bullshit system "works".

If they allowed any of their employees to do legitimate sports reporting, the "BCS" and the NCAA would get hammered for this shit. But instead, they all preach and follow the company line, and try to convince us that this is a "real" championship.

the best part is, alot of the AP voters are sayin that if Bama wins a close game, they feel LSU was still a better team this year and will keep them number 1. the BCS and NCAA are already shitting over it. I cant wait. I hope this game ends 3-0

[Snacks]

the best part is, alot of the AP voters are sayin that if Bama wins a close game, they feel LSU was still a better team this year and will keep them number 1. the BCS and NCAA are already shitting over it. I cant wait. I hope this game ends 3-0

shouldnt they? bama lost a close game at home why is this 1 game on a neutral site have more value? if bama does lose a close game then it should be a shared title because they will both have 1 loss. if they give it to bama its like bamas home loss a couple of months ago meant nothing.

and this is why many felt a rematch was bullshit. it was a reward to bama for losing at home. i wish ok st would have pounded stanford then it would have really fucked this entire situation up with multiple shared titles and maybe even a 3 way shared championship. no matter what happens other then lsu winning this will be yet another year that teams and fans will be pissed.

[Snoogans]

shouldnt they? bama lost a close game at home why is this 1 game on a neutral site have more value? if bama does lose a close game then it should be a shared title because they will both have 1 loss. if they give it to bama its like bamas home loss a couple of months ago meant nothing.

and this is why many felt a rematch was bullshit. it was a reward to bama for losing at home. i wish ok st would have pounded stanford then it would have really fucked this entire situation up with multiple shared titles and maybe even a 3 way shared championship. no matter what happens other then lsu winning this will be yet another year that teams and fans will be pissed.

i agree they should be. Im just sayin its making them shit

[cougarjake13]

Even better a safety in 4th quarter to win 2-0

[ozzie]

the best part is, alot of the AP voters are sayin that if Bama wins a close game, they feel LSU was still a better team this year and will keep them number 1. the BCS and NCAA are already shitting over it. I cant wait. I hope this game ends 3-0

People had better change the channel after this game, or pick up an un-biased newspaper, if they want to hear anything other than the winner of this game is now the "undisputed national champion", because every head at ESPN will be singing the same song.

Yeah, I saw where someone had polled the AP voters, and anything other than an LSU win will split the votes. Some are committed to going along with the BCS, but the others have said they'll consider giving their vote to either LSU (even with a loss) or OkState, based on how the game is played.

[Snoogans]

People had better change the channel after this game, or pick up an un-biased newspaper, if they want to hear anything other than the winner of this game is now the "undisputed national champion", because every head at ESPN will be singing the same song.

Yeah, I saw where someone had polled the AP voters, and anything other than an LSU win will split the votes. Some are committed to going along with the BCS, but the others have said they'll consider giving their vote to either LSU (even with a loss) or OkState, based on how the game is played.

they had one guy who flat said he is voting for LSU as long as they dont lose by more than 21 cause they were THAT good all year. Honestly, i couldnt give a fuck about either school in general, but i dont think anyone can argue that LSU was the best school in the country, hands down, all season. So i actually really hope they win. I dont care about votes or controversy, so for once, id just like to see the right team get it

[ozzie]

they had one guy who flat said he is voting for LSU as long as they dont lose by more than 21 cause they were THAT good all year. Honestly, i couldnt give a fuck about either school in general, but i dont think anyone can argue that LSU was the best school in the country, hands down, all season. So i actually really hope they win. I dont care about votes or controversy, so for once, id just like to see the right team get it

I'm kinda the same way.

I want this fucking system to change, and I want a goddammed playoff of some form NOW. So usually every year, once Auburn is out of the running, I start rooting for "chaos". I want the whole thing to just blow up in their fat faces so they'll be forced to make a change.

BUT... it shouldn't be at LSU's expense. Not this year. WVU and Oregon both winning their bowl games has sealed LSU's resumè. I would have loved to see them playing OkState or given anyone else a shot at them, but barring that, they don't deserve to have all their accomplishments taken away by losing this bullshit re-match.

I just hope the disagreement and general dissatisfaction on having a re-match itself is enough to force some change.

So, to that end, I'm hoping for either a boring ass game, or just pure LSU domination.

I want to be able to open my door at halftime, and listen to the groans, and hearing channels being changed all around the country.

[Snoogans]

I'm kinda the same way.

I want this fucking system to change, and I want a goddammed playoff of some form NOW. So usually every year, once Auburn is out of the running, I start rooting for "chaos". I want the whole thing to just blow up in their fat faces so they'll be forced to make a change.

BUT... it shouldn't be at LSU's expense. Not this year. WVU and Oregon both winning their bowl games has sealed LSU's resumè. I would have loved to see them playing OkState or given anyone else a shot at them, but barring that, they don't deserve to have all their accomplishments taken away by losing this bullshit re-match.

I just hope the disagreement and general dissatisfaction on having a re-match itself is enough to force some change.

So, to that end, I'm hoping for either a boring ass game, or just pure LSU domination.

I want to be able to open my door at halftime, and listen to the groans, and hearing channels being changed all around the country.

if they were playin OK State id be rooting for Ok State. Cause I fuckin hate the SEC and their general (im aware not all of them, but a large number, alot like yankee fans) we are better than everyone and fuck you attitudes. But Bama had their fuckin shot. they didnt get it done. they didnt even win their fuckin DIVISION, nevermind conference. LSU romped. They werent all pretty, but they never are all pretty. they got it done, and they beat all comers. And i think Mike Gundy would even tell you LSU was hands down the best team.

Saban never would, cause saban is the ultimate douche bag. In fact, i think id be rooting against him no matter who they played (except Penn State)

[El Mudo]

Even better a safety in 4th quarter to win 2-0

I'd like to see LSU win 1-0.

And yes, you can score one point in an American football game.

While safeties are generally worth two points, they are worth one point when they occur during a point-after attempt.
College football rules allow either team to score a one-point safety after a touchdown. Say that Team B blocks Team A's extra-point attempt, and a player on Team B picks up the ball on the 1-yard line. Looking for an opening, the player with the ball runs backwards voluntarily into his end zone, where he is tackled. Team A receives one point for the conversion safety, and the score is now 7–0. Team A then kicks off from its own 30-yard line, as after any touchdown. A conversion safety has occurred at least once in the NCAA, in a game between Texas and Texas A&M in 2004. Following the Longhorns TD from a blocked punt, the ensuing PAT was blocked and recovered by a Texas A&M player on the one yard line. The player tried to make a return, but was tackled in his own endzone for a one point safety.
Although exceedingly unlikely, college football's rules also allow the defensive team to score a one-point conversion safety on a PAT or conversion try. One possible scenario: Team B blocks Team A's extra-point attempt, and a player on Team B picks up the loose ball and runs towards the opposite end zone. Before reaching the goal line, he fumbles the ball and it is recovered by a player from Team A, who then voluntarily runs into his own (Team A's) end zone and is tackled. Team B would score one point for the conversion safety and the score would then be 6–1. No team has ever scored a defensive conversion safety in an American college football game. However, the rule is notable as being one of just two ways a team may finish a game with a score of exactly one point in American football. The second way is a forfeit in American college or high school football. For example, when Team A forfeits, the final score is 1–0 for Team B.[10]

[Snoogans]

I'd like to see LSU win 1-0.

And yes, you can score one point in an American football game.

isnt that kinda how leon lett blew that game for the cowboys against miami in the snow? I know it was a FG so it wasnt one point, but wasnt that kinda how it happened?

[Snacks]

they had one guy who flat said he is voting for LSU as long as they dont lose by more than 21 cause they were THAT good all year. Honestly, i couldnt give a fuck about either school in general, but i dont think anyone can argue that LSU was the best school in the country, hands down, all season. So i actually really hope they win. I dont care about votes or controversy, so for once, id just like to see the right team get it

i agree that lsu was the best team but i want them to lose because i want this to be fucking smack in the face of the sport, bcs, ncaa and every asshole at espn.

[Snacks]

I'd like to see LSU win 1-0.

And yes, you can score one point in an American football game.

but it seems in college they blow the whistle before the player run in back in the 1st place.

isnt that kinda how leon lett blew that game for the cowboys against miami in the snow? I know it was a FG so it wasnt one point, but wasnt that kinda how it happened?

no its not. he touched a blocked fg in play pass the line of scrimmage. if he would have let the ball die or the dolphins land on it, it would have been game over but because he touched it while it was still moving and not behind the line of scrimmage for some stupid reason it was miami ball and a retry. never understood it myself but i was happy it worked out in my teams favor.

[ozzie]

if they were playin OK State id be rooting for Ok State. Cause I fuckin hate the SEC and their general (im aware not all of them, but a large number, alot like yankee fans) we are better than everyone and fuck you attitudes. But Bama had their fuckin shot. they didnt get it done. they didnt even win their fuckin DIVISION, nevermind conference. LSU romped. They werent all pretty, but they never are all pretty. they got it done, and they beat all comers. And i think Mike Gundy would even tell you LSU was hands down the best team.

Saban never would, cause saban is the ultimate douche bag. In fact, i think id be rooting against him no matter who they played (except Penn State)

Auburn would never leave the SEC, so I'm stuck with these assholes.

There was talk of moving them over to the SEC East when Mizzou joined, and I would have settled for that.

UGA, UT and UF fans aren't a lot better, but they're better than bammer and LSU fans. Those "hayseeds" are just fucking unbearable.

No other fan base, or bunch of reporters, would put up with Saban's condescending statements. He treats bama fans, boosters, administration and their corp of reporters like shit, and yet they all worship him as blindly as they did bear, and it just feeds their ego and sense of entitlement.

There are actual U of Alabama grads that I get along with just fine. The worst ones are the ones that couldn't even locate Tuscaloosa on a map, let alone have ever stepped foot on that campus.

One of my best buds is a coonass LSU fan, and he's cool, but he's also an exception. Most of those fuckers are just as disillusioned. Seemed to have started around the same time Saban took them to their first title in 2003.

Coincidence?

[underdog]

I'd like to see LSU win 1-0.

And yes, you can score one point in an American football game.

Someone would have to score a TD for the 1 point to happen.

[Snoogans]

Someone would have to score a TD for the 1 point to happen.

yea good point. the game couldnt end 1-0 cause the other team would need to get 6 first.

Silly mudo

[JimBeam]

Auburn would never leave the SEC, so I'm stuck with these assholes.

There was talk of moving them over to the SEC East when Mizzou joined, and I would have settled for that.

UGA, UT and UF fans aren't a lot better, but they're better than bammer and LSU fans. Those "hayseeds" are just fucking unbearable.

No other fan base, or bunch of reporters, would put up with Saban's condescending statements. He treats bama fans, boosters, administration and their corp of reporters like shit, and yet they all worship him as blindly as they did bear, and it just feeds their ego and sense of entitlement.

There are actual U of Alabama grads that I get along with just fine. The worst ones are the ones that couldn't even locate Tuscaloosa on a map, let alone have ever stepped foot on that campus.

One of my best buds is a coonass LSU fan, and he's cool, but he's also an exception. Most of those fuckers are just as disillusioned. Seemed to have started around the same time Saban took them to their first title in 2003.

Coincidence?

You're calling fans of LSU, from Baton Rouge and New Orleans," hayseeds " ?

Neither is NYC by any means but please let's not get silly.

What in God's name are the people who root for Auburn ? The entire surrounding community was a giant double wide trailer.

Now I've never been to Tuscaloosa so I can't comment on that town but I have been through Auburn's campus and I've seen more infrastructure in a post-earthquake Haiti.

[ozzie]

but it seems in college they blow the whistle before the player run in back in the 1st place.

They usually let a blocked XP attempt play out. In the Capital One Bowl on Monday, So Car blocked Nebraska's XP att, and returned it for 2 pts the other way.

From what the rule says, if a Neb player had knocked it out of his hands near the goal line, and fell on it in their own endzone, the score would have been 6 - 1 instead of 6 - 2.

[Snoogans]

but it seems in college they blow the whistle before the player run in back in the 1st place.



no its not. he touched a blocked fg in play pass the line of scrimmage. if he would have let the ball die or the dolphins land on it, it would have been game over but because he touched it while it was still moving and not behind the line of scrimmage for some stupid reason it was miami ball and a retry. never understood it myself but i was happy it worked out in my teams favor.

i remember him diving on a the ball and knocking it away. i was like 11 or 12 i think when it happened. in fact, that and beebe knocking the ball out of his hand at the 1 are the only 2 things i remember about leon lett at all

[JimBeam]

shouldnt they? bama lost a close game at home why is this 1 game on a neutral site have more value?

Because it's the National Championship Game.

Show me any sport, any one in the world, were it says that you don't ever have to beat a team a 2nd time to win the title ?

You can't because it doesn't exist.

The same sport that allowed a 2 loss LSU team to be called a national champion is now saying that LSU will have to beat a team a 2nd time to be champion.

[JimBeam]

By the way I hate that every link you go to on ESPN's site has a video that automatically plays.

That's so annoying.

[Snoogans]

By the way I hate that every link you go to on ESPN's site has a video that automatically plays.

That's so annoying.

you can change that. I dont completely remember how, but i shut it off, now i have to actually click them to play. otherwise they just load and sit there like a deadspin video

[Snoogans]

Because it's the National Championship Game.

Show me any sport, any one in the world, were it says that you don't ever have to beat a team a 2nd time to win the title ?

You can't because it doesn't exist.

The same sport that allowed a 2 loss LSU team to be called a national champion is now saying that LSU will have to beat a team a 2nd time to be champion.

i get the point its a title game. and of course, teams play in the SB who played earlier. giants and pats were technically 1-1 against each other in 07-08. But they had a playoff. We dont have a playoff. So we can only pick the best team. If Bama beats LSU 10-7, i dont think that means they were the better team this year, and id prob be one of those who voted for LSU. Cause the poll is supposed to reflect the entire body, not the result of just one game. You want it to be based on that game, you gotta have playoffs. Otherwise, you gotta judge every game

[Snacks]

Because it's the National Championship Game.

Show me any sport, any one in the world, were it says that you don't ever have to beat a team a 2nd time to win the title ?

You can't because it doesn't exist.

The same sport that allowed a 2 loss LSU team to be called a national champion is now saying that LSU will have to beat a team a 2nd time to be champion.

true but in college 1 loss knocks you out of a title shot and did for 10 other teams. this 1 team is getting a rematch against the only undefeated team in the league. someone else should have gotten the chance. we already watched that boring game that bama lost at home as the fav. if this was a playoff game then fine but its for the title. they were put in the game over other deserving teams they didnt win their way in. if lsu losses its only fair they get the same help so a tie for the title or a best of 3 which would never happen.

[Snacks]

i get the point its a title game. and of course, teams play in the SB who played earlier. giants and pats were technically 1-1 against each other in 07-08. But they had a playoff. We dont have a playoff. So we can only pick the best team. If Bama beats LSU 10-7, i dont think that means they were the better team this year, and id prob be one of those who voted for LSU. Cause the poll is supposed to reflect the entire body, not the result of just one game. You want it to be based on that game, you gotta have playoffs. Otherwise, you gotta judge every game

ok this because you obviously just said this better then me!

[underdog]

You're calling fans of LSU, from Baton Rouge and New Orleans," hayseeds " ?

Neither is NYC by any means but please let's not get silly.

What in God's name are the people who root for Auburn ? The entire surrounding community was a giant double wide trailer.

Now I've never been to Tuscaloosa so I can't comment on that town but I have been through Auburn's campus and I've seen more infrastructure in a post-earthquake Haiti.

Everyone south of the middle of Jersey is a hayseed.

[JimBeam]

i get the point its a title game. and of course, teams play in the SB who played earlier. giants and pats were technically 1-1 against each other in 07-08. But they had a playoff. We dont have a playoff. So we can only pick the best team. If Bama beats LSU 10-7, i dont think that means they were the better team this year, and id prob be one of those who voted for LSU. Cause the poll is supposed to reflect the entire body, not the result of just one game. You want it to be based on that game, you gotta have playoffs. Otherwise, you gotta judge every game

I don't like to make the comparison to pro sports, which are obvious ( Giants/Patriots, Red Sox/Yankess, etc .. ), but again most of those sports have schedules that are comparable.

You play teams from your division mutliple times and you play equally as good teams, for the most part, every other game.

That's just not the case in college football.

New Orleans is as much of a home game for LSU as Tiger Stadium.

Let's be clear about something, while LSU left Alabama with the win you could argue that Alabama lost that game as much as LSU won it.

If LSU had gone in there and rolled them by several TDs and then they split this game maybe I'd see an argument, but a close game, lost in overtime, does not trump a game both teams know is for all the marbles.

OK St is simply not in the argument. As I've stated many times you can't lose to a team with a losing record, and have the combined losses of your best wins be 8, and expect tpo be considered a champion.

I wouldn't be surprised to see a few AP vote go to LSU if they lose but I don't think the sentiment is as big as it's being made out.

You'll have people try and make statements but the respected voters will pick the winner of the game.

[ozzie]

You're calling fans of LSU, from Baton Rouge and New Orleans," hayseeds " ?

Neither is NYC by any means but please let's not get silly.

What in God's name are the people who root for Auburn ? The entire surrounding community was a giant double wide trailer.

Now I've never been to Tuscaloosa so I can't comment on that town but I have been through Auburn's campus and I've seen more infrastructure in a post-earthquake Haiti.

The "hayseed" comment was a knock at Snoogans from the NASCAR thread a while back.

It was a joke.

But don't act like there aren't "hayseeds" in the state of Louisiana either. It's not like the whole fan base lives in colonial mansions, or in "urban" settings.

Yes, there are mobile homes parked off AU's campus, but that's mainly because they did away with male "dorms" back while I was there, and apartments or fraternity houses were the only option. A lot of students who planned to go on to grad school invested in a mobile home they could sell off to someone else after they graduated, rather than throwing it all down the drain on an overpriced apartment.

That, and it's just not a big "city". It's a college town. Hotels are limited because they're only booked 8 weekends a year. A lot of season ticket holders have bought and parked mobile homes up there that they use only on game weekends, rather than driving an RV back and forth.

There's no jobs in Auburn, so unless you're going to continue to work or teach at the U, almost all AU grads move away.

So, please, don't try to judge "people who root for Auburn" by how our students choose to live.

[Snoogans]

Everyone south of the middle of Jersey is a hayseed.

and north of boston. Seriously, WHY THE FUCK WOULD ANYONE EVER STAY IN MAINE AFTER SEPTEMBER.

[JimBeam]

true but in college 1 loss knocks you out of a title shot and did for 10 other teams. this 1 team is getting a rematch against the only undefeated team in the league. someone else should have gotten the chance. we already watched that boring game that bama lost at home as the fav. if this was a playoff game then fine but its for the title. they were put in the game over other deserving teams they didnt win their way in. if lsu losses its only fair they get the same help so a tie for the title or a best of 3 which would never happen.

Based on what ? This isn't little league where everybody gets a chance.

You want to play for a title don't lose games you're supposed to win.

Other than that hoax Ok St what other teams were shutout of a legit chance at the title ?

An Oregon team that lost to LSU and USC ?

A Boise St team that lost to TCU ( who lost to SMU ) ?

[Snoogans]

Based on what ? This isn't little league where everybody gets a chance.

You want to play for a title don't lose games you're supposed to win.

Other than that hoax Ok St what other teams were shutout of a legit chance at the title ?

An Oregon team that lost to LSU and USC ?

A Boise St team that lost to TCU ( who lost to SMU ) ?

which is why it should have playoffs. but it doesnt. so all you can do is look at the whole year, and 1 loss to bama doesnt change that i think LSU was a better team all year

[JimBeam]

The "hayseed" comment was a knock at Snoogans from the NASCAR thread a while back.

It was a joke.

But don't act like there aren't "hayseeds" in the state of Louisiana either. It's not like the whole fan base lives in colonial mansions, or in "urban" settings.

And bullshit you saw a fucking mobile home on Auburn's "campus". Every square foot is used up by the university.

Now, there are TONS of them off campus, but that's mainly because they did away with male "dorms" back while I was there, and apartments or fraternity houses were the only option. A lot of students who planned to go on to grad school invested in a mobile home they could sell off to someone else after they graduated, rather than throwing it all down the drain on an overpriced apartment.

That, and it's just not a big "city". It's a college town. Hotels are limited because they're only booked 8 weekends a year. A lot of season ticket holders have bought and parked mobile homes up there that they use only on game weekends, rather than driving an RV back and forth.

There's no jobs in Auburn, so unless you're going to continue to work or teach at the U, almost all AU grads move away.

So, please, don't try to judge "people who root for Auburn" by how our students choose to live.

If there was an inside joke then my aplogies but don't try and make Lousiana look backwoods like some Hollywood charicature.

[Snoogans]

If there was an inside joke then my aplogies but don't try and make Lousiana look backwoods like some Hollywood charicature.

everyone got mad at me and called me racist and said i was being a douche to the south cause i said people who like nascar, and spend most free time camping and fishing are hayseeds, despite the fact that i never said any place, just people who do that, who exist in all places. So thats where the hayseed joke came from

[Snacks]

Based on what ? This isn't little league where everybody gets a chance.

You want to play for a title don't lose games you're supposed to win.

Other than that hoax Ok St what other teams were shutout of a legit chance at the title ?

An Oregon team that lost to LSU and USC ?

A Boise St team that lost to TCU ( who lost to SMU ) ?

ok thats fine well Bama was supposed to be LSU at home they were favored and everyone expected them to win. LSU preseason was predicted to have 3 loses but didnt so that "supposed to win" crap means nothing. ok st lost 1 game a few days after another tragedy of campus. sorry but that should be given consideration. if they played any other time they would have killed iowa st. if you arent going to have a playoff where people play their way in then you cant say this isnt little league. 1st because little league not everyone gets in the playoff because little league is run the same way 99.9% other sports are run. div 1 college football is the only sport that allows computers and votes to pick its champion not play on the field or winning games. we could pick any 2 teams with 1 loss and call that a championship game. that doesnt mean they are legitimate champions.

[Snoogans]

ok thats fine well Bama was supposed to be LSU at home they were favored and everyone expected them to win. LSU preseason was predicted to have 3 loses but didnt so that "supposed to win" crap means nothing. ok st lost 1 game a few days after another tragedy of campus. sorry but that should be given consideration. if they played any other time they would have killed iowa st. if you arent going to have a playoff where people play their way in then you cant say this isnt little league. 1st because little league not everyone gets in the playoff because little league is run the same way 99.9% other sports are run. div 1 college football is the only sport that allows computers and votes to pick its champion not play on the field or winning games. we could pick any 2 teams with 1 loss and call that a championship game. that doesnt mean they are legitimate champions.

and i tried to make the point that even more so than most schools, Ok State is very close between its sports programs. And the kids were told about it an hour before the game. You can argue how much effect that mighta had, but it definately has some effect. and yea iowa state ended up 6-7, that hurts ALOT. But they at least were in a good conf playing really good comp. if they were in the MWC or something, they prob woulda won 10 games or more. they arent a bad team. they arent good, but they arent bad. But you cant ever underestimate how that news fucked with those kids heads. I dont get why they just didnt wait til after the game to tell them

[JimBeam]

which is why it should have playoffs. but it doesnt. so all you can do is look at the whole year, and 1 loss to bama doesnt change that i think LSU was a better team all year

Playoffs don't work because it's not equitable.

If we get to the proposed Super Conferences, with 64 teams, than maybe it'll make sense but right now giving SMU a spot in a playoff, simply because they won their league, is crazy.

On paper they look like ARK, with 2 losses, but ARK's were to LSU and Alabama, where SMU's were to Marshall and UAB.

And even if there was a playoff and LSU and Alabama met again wouldn't the argument be the same ?

Why then would Alabama's wins over Wisconsin and Clemson ( theoretically ), leading them to play LSU, cancel out the loss at home to LSU ?

[Snoogans]

Playoffs don't work because it's not equitable.

If we get to the proposed Super Conferences, with 64 teams, than maybe it'll make sense but right now giving SMU a spot in a playoff, simply because they won their league, is crazy.

On paper they look like ARK, with 2 losses, but ARK's were to LSU and Alabama, where SMU's were to Marshall and UAB.

And even if there was a playoff and LSU and Alabama met again wouldn't the argument be the same ?

Why then would Alabama's wins over Wisconsin and Clemson ( theoretically ), leading them to play LSU, cancel out the loss at home to LSU ?

how is it not equitable? clearly you have missed the 11 times where i put up my playoff proposal that keeps money in place for every bowl game, makes a few of them more money, and still uses the BCS, and says fuck off to the smaller shit conferences who really dont deserve a spot, but at the same time, allows one who might run the table, like a boise, a chance to get into the BCS top 8 (or 16) and make the playoff anyway. Cause my playoff would just use the BCS order, so they dont cry either

[underdog]

and north of boston. Seriously, WHY THE FUCK WOULD ANYONE EVER STAY IN MAINE AFTER SEPTEMBER.

And 20 miles west of Boston.

[ozzie]

i get the point its a title game. and of course, teams play in the SB who played earlier. giants and pats were technically 1-1 against each other in 07-08. But they had a playoff. We dont have a playoff. So we can only pick the best team. If Bama beats LSU 10-7, i dont think that means they were the better team this year, and id prob be one of those who voted for LSU. Cause the poll is supposed to reflect the entire body, not the result of just one game. You want it to be based on that game, you gotta have playoffs. Otherwise, you gotta judge every game

Exactly.

Would bama have deserved to make it into an 8 team playoff field? Arguably, yes.

But when 120 schools are all competing for 2 precious spots, you just can't say that anyone "deserves" a re-match, no matter the circumstances of the first meeting.

And in this case, bama had every fucking advantage in the world in that first meeting, and still couldn't put it in the endzone.

For year's they've tried to sell the BCS on the fact that it protected "the integrity of the regular season", and that "every game counts".

Now, well, I guess nothing counts except for the fucking vote of biased coaches, and people put on the Harris poll, some of whom have definite interests in who gets in. 4 of the 6 computer polls had OkState at #2, so let's not act like bama is the "undisputed second best team in the country". That poll was put in to try to keep a biased vote from being the only factor in who plays. They just didn't give it enough weight.

For as many regular season games as ESPN airs, you would think they wouldn't be blindly supporting this travesty the way they are.

Most average sports fans already think college football is a joke. This shit doesn't help.

[JimBeam]

ok thats fine well Bama was supposed to be LSU at home they were favored and everyone expected them to win.

Who said Alabama was supposed to win ?

Some thought they would but by no means was there any huge thought that Alabama would beat the higher ranked team w/o a doubt.

That game was speculation/opinion by everybody as much as this upcoming one is.

Actually Arkansas is the national champion because you know they lost an actual player on their team not a women's basketball coach.

[Snoogans]

Exactly.

Would bama have deserved to make it into an 8 team playoff field? Arguably, yes.

But when 120 schools are all competing for 2 precious spots, you just can't say that anyone "deserves" a re-match, no matter the circumstances of the first meeting.

And in this case, bama had every fucking advantage in the world in that first meeting, and still couldn't put it in the endzone.

For year's they've tried to sell the BCS on the fact that it protected "the integrity of the regular season", and that "every game counts".

Now, well, I guess nothing counts except for the fucking vote of biased coaches, and people put on the Harris poll, some of whom have definite interests in who gets in. 4 of the 6 computer polls had OkState at #2, so let's not act like bama is the "undisputed second best team in the country". That poll was put in to try to keep a biased vote from being the only factor in who plays. They just didn't give it enough weight.

For as many regular season games as ESPN airs, you would think they wouldn't be blindly supporting this travesty the way they are.

Most average sports fans already think college football is a joke. This shit doesn't help.

thats the craziest part to me. ESPN should have an interest in every team gettin as much exposure and chance as every other team. fuck they have contracts to show mac and wac and fuckin sun belt games. All they are doing is basically limiting the potential fan pool. NFL blew up because everyones team now can think they have a chance every year. all ESPN is doing is reinforcing to casual fans that most teams dont have a chance, no matter what the fuck they do

[Snoogans]

Who said Alabama was supposed to win ?

Some thought they would but by no means was there any huge thought that Alabama would beat the higher ranked team w/o a doubt.

That game was speculation/opinion by everybody as much as this upcoming one is.

Actually Arkansas is the national champion because you know they lost an actual player on their team not a women's basketball coach.

yea its that simple. 18 19 year old kids get told an hour before the game that someone they had gotten very close to as a person, regardless of what job the fuckin person had, just died in a plane crash. Thats not gonna have any effect, cause fuck em right, its just a basketball coach.

Thats the dumbest shit i have ever heard. they arent fuckin machines, bro. They are still people

[JimBeam]

Exactly.

Would bama have deserved to make it into an 8 team playoff field? Arguably, yes.

But when 120 schools are all competing for 2 precious spots, you just can't say that anyone "deserves" a re-match, no matter the circumstances of the first meeting.

And in this case, bama had every fucking advantage in the world in that first meeting, and still couldn't put it in the endzone.

For year's they've tried to sell the BCS on the fact that it protected "the integrity of the regular season", and that "every game counts".

Now, well, I guess nothing counts except for the fucking vote of biased coaches, and people put on the Harris poll, some of whom have definite interests in who gets in. 4 of the 6 computer polls had OkState at #2, so let's not act like bama is the "undisputed second best team in the country". That poll was put in to try to keep a biased vote from being the only factor in who plays. They just didn't give it enough weight.

For as many regular season games as ESPN airs, you would think they wouldn't be blindly supporting this travesty the way they are.

Most average sports fans already think college football is a joke. This shit doesn't help.

Ozzie your impartiallity to all things SEC is in question because in my opinion you simply can't seperate from Auburn. Your bias against Alabama is clear as day.

Biased coaches ?

You think the vote by Gary Pinkell is what made Alabama #2 ?

No the coaches could actually look at the on the field results and see that Alabama was clearly a better team and while they didn't have any tragedey's, that I know of, they lost to the undefeated #1 team in the country.

Who gives a shit what the avergae sports fan thinks ?

I don't know about you but I don't like things because other people like them. What is this high school ?

I guess being a grown man I don't need my sport to be accepted by people who think Kevin James is the height of hilarity and who think the singers on American Idol are really good.

[Snoogans]

also, and i have no knowledge of how it is at Ok State in regards to this, but at most major colleges, the coaches also teach classes. And alot of athletes take those classes, even across sports. Meaning, there is a decent chance that some of these football players actually had those other sports coaches as professors. Bobby Knight had football players in almost all of his classes at indiana. Its not like because they are different sports, they dont support each other, and never talk to each other. They are athletes, regardless of sport, and that brings a special bond between them. It makes it very very important.

[ozzie]

thats the craziest part to me. ESPN should have an interest in every team gettin as much exposure and chance as every other team. fuck they have contracts to show mac and wac and fuckin sun belt games. All they are doing is basically limiting the potential fan pool. NFL blew up because everyones team now can think they have a chance every year. all ESPN is doing is reinforcing to casual fans that most teams dont have a chance, no matter what the fuck they do

I know it's not a popular opinion, but ^^ THIS ^^, right there, is why I continue to advocate a playoff system that includes all conference champions.

Hell, make the lesser conferences play there way in, or whatever, but for fuck's sake, this game would be so much more interesting every week if people actually had a reason to care about the outcome of Northern Illinois vs. Toledo on a Tuesday night in November. (Which was a helluva fucking game, I might add)

NONE... I repeat, NONE of the conference championship games this year meant a goddammed thing. Including the SECCG.

Voters had already decided that, at worst, they might move LSU down to #2 behind bama.

NONE of them meant anything! Not regular season games... fucking conference championship games were rendered meaningless! There's something seriously wrong with this system when this is the case.

[Snoogans]

Ozzie your impartiallity to all things SEC is in question because in my opinion you simply can't seperate from Auburn. Your bias against Alabama is clear as day.

Biased coaches ?

You think the vote by Gary Pinkell is what made Alabama #2 ?

No the coaches could actually look at the on the field results and see that Alabama was clearly a better team and while they didn't have any tragedey's, that I know of, they lost to the undefeated #1 team in the country.

Who gives a shit what the avergae sports fan thinks ?

I don't know about you but I don't like things because other people like them. What is this high school ?

I guess being a grown man I don't need my sport to be accepted by people who think Kevin James is the height of hilarity and who think the singers on American Idol are really good.

i dont thik thats what he was going for. I think he meant people who are casual observers who we want to get into the sport. contrary to what most of you guys think, most of this country doesnt give a fuck about college football. And most NFL fans also dont give a shit. And eventually, all this nonsense is gonna push away people who dont give a shit, to the point where the only place that will still even talk about college football is down south. You arent the major sport everyone in the SEC seems to think it is. the SEC is major,cause they own where they are. and the texas schools, same thing. but aside from that, and maybe los angeles (who really doesnt care about anything) no one else cares that much.

It saddens me how few people i have to really talk about college football with around here. no one cares. they cared for 2 weeks when rutgers was top ten. rutgers lost, and no one cared anymore. so you need to worry about alienating fans.

[Snoogans]

I know it's not a popular opinion, but ^^ THIS ^^, right there, is why I continue to advocate a playoff system that includes all conference champions.

Hell, make the lesser conferences play there way in, or whatever, but for fuck's sake, this game would be so much more interesting every week if people actually had a reason to care about the outcome of Northern Illinois vs. Toledo on a Tuesday night in November. (Which was a helluva fucking game, I might add)

NONE... I repeat, NONE of the conference championship games this year meant a goddammed thing. Including the SECCG.

Voters had already decided that, at worst, they might move LSU down to #2 behind bama.

NONE of them meant anything! Not regular season games... fucking conference championship games were rendered meaningless! There's something seriously wrong with this system when this is the case.

See thats why i go with the BCS thing. any school in one of those conferences who runs the table is gonna finish high enough in rankings to make a playoff. if you play in the sun belt, im sorry but, if you arent 12-0 i dont even wanna hear from you. you really dont deserve it. thats just how it is. But if FIU somehow won all its out of conf games and ran the table, they would end up ranked high enough to get in, or have the undefeated exception. You can make that happen without giving an auto bid to a team that finished 7-6 and won the mac championship game.

[JimBeam]

yea its that simple. 18 19 year old kids get told an hour before the game that someone they had gotten very close to as a person, regardless of what job the fuckin person had, just died in a plane crash. Thats not gonna have any effect, cause fuck em right, its just a basketball coach.

Thats the dumbest shit i have ever heard. they arent fuckin machines, bro. They are still people

We discussed this a few weeks back.

I'm not trying to be insensetive to the loss but the ARK players were told 5 days before the LSU game that one of their teammates died.

Why is that any less tragic ?

The fact that they lost to a 10-1 team makes that irrelevant ?

Simply put it's my opinion that neither LSU nor Alabama nor Arkansas would have lost a game to Iowa St under any circumstance.

LSU coming off of Hurricane Katrina went 11-2.

You don't think there was any emotion for them ?

The fact that we're discusing a tragedey off the field to warrant a team's championship caliber is far worse than anything the BCS has ever done.

[Snoogans]

We discussed this a few weeks back.

I'm not trying to be insensetive to the loss but the ARK players were told 5 days before the LSU game that one of their teammates died.

Why is that any less tragic ?

The fact that they lost to a 10-1 team makes that irrelevant ?

Simply put it's my opinion that neither LSU nor Alabama nor Arkansas would have lost a game to Iowa St under any circumstance.

LSU coming off of Hurricane Katrina went 11-2.

You don't think there was any emotion for them ?

The fact that we're discusing a tragedey off the field to warrant a team's championship caliber is far worse than anything the BCS has ever done.

i never said its less tragic. i never said anything about anyone. my whole arguement was strickly for Ok State in that one game verse Iowa State. I didnt say arkansas shouldnt have their tragedy considered. if that week had been the only game they lost, id prob say the same thing, even with having 5 days instead of an hour. Id completely agree. but they lost a 2nd game also, so they are out of a chance. Im sorry but thats just life in NCAA right now.

and again, i didnt argue anything of championship caliber. just bringing up points why that one game could have been effected. I, for one, woulda voted Ok State 2nd, but thats just cause they played better all year, in my opinion, then bama did

[JimBeam]

I know it's not a popular opinion, but ^^ THIS ^^, right there, is why I continue to advocate a playoff system that includes all conference champions.

Hell, make the lesser conferences play there way in, or whatever, but for fuck's sake, this game would be so much more interesting every week if people actually had a reason to care about the outcome of Northern Illinois vs. Toledo on a Tuesday night in November. (Which was a helluva fucking game, I might add)

NONE... I repeat, NONE of the conference championship games this year meant a goddammed thing. Including the SECCG.

Voters had already decided that, at worst, they might move LSU down to #2 behind bama.

NONE of them meant anything! Not regular season games... fucking conference championship games were rendered meaningless! There's something seriously wrong with this system when this is the case.

Conference championship games sucked because the leagues or teams in them sucked.

The PAC12 with UCLA as a participant at 5-4 and 6-8 overall ?

Big 10 ? ACC ?

Even the SEC game was anti-climactic for the reason you mentioned and the otherwise suckiness in general of a Mark Richt team.

He may make Stoops look like Bear Bryant.

[JimBeam]

When the hell is ARK/Kansas St ?

Is it the opening act for LSU/Alabama.

I hadn't even realized that I totally missed OK/Iowa and was wondering when that was gonna happen.

[ozzie]

Ozzie your impartiallity to all things SEC is in question because in my opinion you simply can't seperate from Auburn. Your bias against Alabama is clear as day.

Biased coaches ?

You think the vote by Gary Pinkell is what made Alabama #2 ?

No the coaches could actually look at the on the field results and see that Alabama was clearly a better team and while they didn't have any tragedey's, that I know of, they lost to the undefeated #1 team in the country.

Who gives a shit what the avergae sports fan thinks ?

I don't know about you but I don't like things because other people like them. What is this high school ?

I guess being a grown man I don't need my sport to be accepted by people who think Kevin James is the height of hilarity and who think the singers on American Idol are really good.

You're a grown man? Are you 40?

Exactly WHEN do you think these coaches look at any team they aren't preparing for "on the field"?

And, yep, Pinkel went along with the rest of the SEC coaches who had a vote. They all voted for bama at #2. Why? More money for their conference. (Or Mizzou's future conference)

Nick Saban got a vote. Mike Gundy didn't. Not only that, but Saban added an extra "fuck you" by moving them down to #4 just to further help his cause.

Seriously, just stop even trying to argue that they aren't voting for what's in the best interest of their school.

Virginia voted to put themselves in the top-25. So did La Tech's coach. Spurrier has repeatedly put Duke into his top-25 in just about every pre-season poll. The whole thing is a joke to them.

As for my position stemming from a perceived bias against bama... don't even try it. I was saying the same shit against Michigan "deserving" a re-match against tOSU in 2006. And was still all for a playoff system last year, even with AU sitting at #1.

And, yes, I give a shit about how my favorite sport is perceived. Just as any "fan" is protective of their sport. It's humiliating trying to defend a passion for a sport that still determines it's "champion" by voting, like it's fucking figure skating or gymnastics.

[Snoogans]

You're a grown man? Are you 40?

Exactly WHEN do you think these coaches look at any team they aren't preparing for "on the field"?

And, yep, Pinkel went along with the rest of the SEC coaches who had a vote. They all voted for bama at #2. Why? More money for their conference. (Or Mizzou's future conference)

Nick Saban got a vote. Mike Gundy didn't. Not only that, but Saban added an extra "fuck you" by moving them down to #4 just to further help his cause.

Seriously, just stop even trying to argue that they aren't voting for what's in the best interest of their school.

Virginia voted to put themselves in the top-25. So did La Tech's coach. Spurrier has repeatedly put Duke into his top-25 in just about every pre-season poll. The whole thing is a joke to them.

As for my position stemming from a perceived bias against bama... don't even try it. I was saying the same shit against Michigan "deserving" a re-match against tOSU in 2006. And was still all for a playoff system last year, even with AU sitting at #1.

And, yes, I give a shit about how my favorite sport is perceived. Just as any "fan" is protective of their sport. It's humiliating trying to defend a passion for a sport that still determines it's "champion" by voting, like it's fucking figure skating or gymnastics.

and, i believe that money is equally divided among the schools. Right there is your answer.

In fact, ill try to find it too, a month or so back espn did a big article about why the coaches poll is a sham and how easy it is for some coaches to manipulate it to benefit their own schools even when their own schools arent part of the voting process. they are even debating getting rid of the coaches poll cause of how unfair it is.

[JimBeam]

I guess I'm different in that I don't feel I have to defend the things I like to people.

I love college baseball when most people don't but I don't feel the need to make everybody like it.

I can debate college football in here and with people I watch the games with.

I don't ever feel the urge to get the idiot on the other side of the cube from me to understand college football.

[ozzie]

and, i believe that money is equally divided among the schools. Right there is your answer.

In fact, ill try to find it too, a month or so back espn did a big article about why the coaches poll is a sham and how easy it is for some coaches to manipulate it to benefit their own schools even when their own schools arent part of the voting process. they are even debating getting rid of the coaches poll cause of how unfair it is.

Rutgers got a top-25 vote, but it didn't come from Schiano. (Peterson, Boise State)

And Chizik had a vote, but didn't chose to put Auburn in his.

So they're not all guilty of promoting their own schools directly.

BUT... yeah, there's other ways of helping your own cause. The SEC isn't the only conf that shares bowl money equally. The MAC conference coaches all put No. Illinois into their top-25. Sun Belt coaches put in Arkansas State. The whole thing is a joke.

Anyone who says it's "unbiased" is just fooling themselves.

[Snoogans]

I guess I'm different in that I don't feel I have to defend the things I like to people.

I love college baseball when most people don't but I don't feel the need to make everybody like it.

I can debate college football in here and with people I watch the games with.

I don't ever feel the urge to get the idiot on the other side of the cube from me to understand college football.

its not about defending things i like. i dont defend that i like CFB. In fact, im on record as sayin though i wouldnt mind a playoff, i dont care if they have one. i love college football. i loved it back when michigan was splitting titles cause it was only about human polls. I dont care. i just love the game, how its played, the multiple offenses and defenses you only see on that level. i love it all. Thats what i dont want it to die. So thats why i kinda understand why we need to get those extra fans,. and also why its important to keep fans of smaller schools interested. that brings the money.

Look bama fans will always be bama fans. Bama will always sell, they wont have mopney problems, they are fine. but do you really want a college football with 64 schools at most? I like being able to watch some 56-54 shit show between nevada and hawaii. I like bowl games. I just wanna make sure it all stays around for me to keep enjoying, and doesnt die cause the stupid NCAA pushed off all the people who used to care and didnt get anyone else to come in and watch

[Snoogans]

Rutgers got a top-25 vote, but it didn't come from Schiano. (Peterson, Boise State)

And Chizik had a vote, but didn't chose to put Auburn in his.

So they're not all guilty of promoting their own schools directly.

BUT... yeah, there's other ways of helping your own cause. The SEC isn't the only conf that shares bowl money equally. The MAC conference coaches all put No. Illinois into their top-25. Sun Belt coaches put in Arkansas State. The whole thing is a joke.

Anyone who says it's "unbiased" is just fooling themselves.

but again, its still helping their own cause. Auburn votes for auburn, then Ok State makes the game by 1 vote, then auburn loses money. So to a point, its fuckin stupid for them not to vote bama. I get it. thats why it should be gone.

and yea, awesome Peterson. what a fuckin hypocrit that asshole is. anyone anytime right, as long as you submit to our 50000 demands to play us. Oh yea, and fuck how things are, and fuck sticking up for the little guy like we have. We are just gonna move and be the big guy now and then fuck the little guys.

Fuckin Boise. Im so glad i always hated them. fuck them, AND FUCK THEIR STUPID FIELD.

[Snoogans]

espn is awesome. its the under armour HS all american game. Anyone who actually has this shit on (like me) probably likes football a little too much. Do they really need to spend 3 minutes at the beginning of the game explaining these are the best in the US at HS football? Doesnt the term All American sorta imply that? Did you really have to name 50 college guys who once played in this game? EVERYONE IN THIS FUCKIN GAME IS GOING TO PLAY IN COLLEGE. OR THEY WOULDNT BE IN THIS GAME

[cougarjake13]

espn is awesome. its the under armour HS all american game. Anyone who actually has this shit on (like me) probably likes football a little too much. Do they really need to spend 3 minutes at the beginning of the game explaining these are the best in the US at HS football? Doesnt the term All American sorta imply that? Did you really have to name 50 college guys who once played in this game? EVERYONE IN THIS FUCKIN GAME IS GOING TO PLAY IN COLLEGE. OR THEY WOULDNT BE IN THIS GAME




fuck its in my city and i still aint watching it

[ozzie]

espn is awesome. its the under armour HS all american game. Anyone who actually has this shit on (like me) probably likes football a little too much. Do they really need to spend 3 minutes at the beginning of the game explaining these are the best in the US at HS football? Doesnt the term All American sorta imply that? Did you really have to name 50 college guys who once played in this game? EVERYONE IN THIS FUCKIN GAME IS GOING TO PLAY IN COLLEGE. OR THEY WOULDNT BE IN THIS GAME

I turned it on for a little while, but I'm trying hard to ween myself off of following recruits, so I turned it off.

I tried to just stop worrying about "potential" signees, and just taking an interest into "commits".

But when "commits" start de-committing... I've decided that it's best for me to just wait until signing day, and look and see who went where.

I'm fucking tired of getting played by 17 year old kids.

Daphne, AL HS is just down the road. My kids play against Daphne kids all the time, in all sports. I've had parents of Daphne players work for me. I don't "follow" their program, but it's hard not to when they're winning state titles.

Long story short, last June, a 5-Star RB from Daphne committed to AU. I remember seeing the kid playing pee-wee ball on the big fields while I was coaching my little ones.

My boys were excited, and started watching any Daphne game they could, and wanted to go see them a couple of Friday nights.

Well... the day before the "dead period" began in December, he announced he was flipping to bama. Fucking hipocrite Saban, and all of his "a commit is a commit, and shouldn't visit other schools", had swept in and orchestrated a coup, and got the Daphne coaches to convince him to go to bama.

I've been following this stuff long enough that I don't get my hopes up, but goddammit, since JUNE? All through the HS season, he was coming. My youngest was even asking for a #4 AU jersey for his birthday, one that he could wear for the next 4 years.

So... yeah, wake me up on February 1st, and let me know who's going where, because I'm done following these kids.

And since this is the espn thread... fuck espn for continuing to try to dramatize these kids announcements. They're encouraged to wait until these all-star games that air on espn to announce which school they're going to, and almost all of them will string along 3 or more different schools so they can do the "hat shell game" on the table in front of the cameras.

[Snoogans]

I turned it on for a little while, but I'm trying hard to ween myself off of following recruits, so I turned it off.

I tried to just stop worrying about "potential" signees, and just taking an interest into "commits".

But when "commits" start de-committing... I've decided that it's best for me to just wait until signing day, and look and see who went where.

I'm fucking tired of getting played by 17 year old kids.

Daphne, AL HS is just down the road. My kids play against Daphne kids all the time, in all sports. I've had parents of Daphne players work for me. I don't "follow" their program, but it's hard not to when they're winning state titles.

Long story short, last June, a 5-Star RB from Daphne committed to AU. I remember seeing the kid playing pee-wee ball on the big fields while I was coaching my little ones.

My boys were excited, and started watching any Daphne game they could, and wanted to go see them a couple of Friday nights.

Well... the day before the "dead period" began in December, he announced he was flipping to bama. Fucking hipocrite Saban, and all of his "a commit is a commit, and shouldn't visit other schools", had swept in and orchestrated a coup, and got the Daphne coaches to convince him to go to bama.

I've been following this stuff long enough that I don't get my hopes up, but goddammit, since JUNE? All through the HS season, he was coming. My youngest was even asking for a #4 AU jersey for his birthday, one that he could wear for the next 4 years.

So... yeah, wake me up on February 1st, and let me know who's going where, because I'm done following these kids.

And since this is the espn thread... fuck espn for continuing to try to dramatize these kids announcements. They're encouraged to wait until these all-star games that air on espn to announce which school they're going to, and almost all of them will string along 3 or more different schools so they can do the "hat shell game" on the table in front of the cameras.

I wasnt watchin to follow recruits. I always kinda wait til late in that process to look at that shit. Basically the NBA game i was gonna watch didnt start til 8, and this shit started at 730 after sportscenter. so i just left it on for half hour. It was fuckin terrible too.

There was one awesome part where this kid from Baton Rouge chose Bama over LSU and his mom got really bummed out, so they asked her why and she was like i hate Bama, LSU NUMBER 1, and the kid just started laughing

[El Mudo]

isnt that kinda how leon lett blew that game for the cowboys against miami in the snow? I know it was a FG so it wasnt one point, but wasnt that kinda how it happened?

I believe by touching it he made the ball "live" by becoming the equivalent of a person returning the ball at that point. I don't think Miami could advance the ball, but Lett's play rendered that moot.

Also:

RULE 8, Section 3, Article 2: If the defensive team gains possession of the ball on a point-after attempt and is tackled in the end zone, the offense is awarded one point. The rule also applies if the defense recovers a fumble and is tackled in its own end zone.

ENACTED: The most notable instance of the rule came in 2004 during a Texas-Texas A&M game.

After a dropped snap, Texas kicker Dusty Mangum kicked the ball into the offensive line and it rolled shy of the goal line.

During a scramble for the ball, officials ruled Texas A&M’s Jaxson Appel recovered an Aggie fumble and was smothered in the end zone for a one-point safety.

The point allowed UT to tie the game at 13-13, and the sixth-ranked ’Horns went on to win 26-13.

[JimBeam]

espn is awesome. its the under armour HS all american game. Anyone who actually has this shit on (like me) probably likes football a little too much. Do they really need to spend 3 minutes at the beginning of the game explaining these are the best in the US at HS football? Doesnt the term All American sorta imply that? Did you really have to name 50 college guys who once played in this game? EVERYONE IN THIS FUCKIN GAME IS GOING TO PLAY IN COLLEGE. OR THEY WOULDNT BE IN THIS GAME

I had it on for a few minutes and then saw some awful pass interference call and changed the channel.

I got to see Herm Edwards get all uppity for second though.

[JimBeam]

There was one awesome part where this kid from Baton Rouge chose Bama over LSU and his mom got really bummed out, so they asked her why and she was like i hate Bama, LSU NUMBER 1, and the kid just started laughing

One of my LSU friends had something on Facebook about that but I hadn't checked the video yet. I just saw the screencap of what appeared to be his mom hanging her head.

[Snoogans]

I had it on for a few minutes and then saw some awful pass interference call and changed the channel.

I got to see Herm Edwards get all uppity for second though.

i flipped back on the game thinkin it would be over after the baketball game ended. there was like 11 min left in the 4th quarter and i noticed herman edwards team only had 1 Time out left. It really made me laugh actually

[Snoogans]

One of my LSU friends had something on Facebook about that but I hadn't checked the video yet. I just saw the screencap of what appeared to be his mom hanging her head.

if you can find the video, its fuckin awesome

[Snoogans]

One of my LSU friends had something on Facebook about that but I hadn't checked the video yet. I just saw the screencap of what appeared to be his mom hanging her head.

http://deadspin.com/5873606/top-football-recruit-makes-college-decision-on-live-television-much-to-his-mothers-visible-displeasure

[ozzie]

I wasnt watchin to follow recruits. I always kinda wait til late in that process to look at that shit. Basically the NBA game i was gonna watch didnt start til 8, and this shit started at 730 after sportscenter. so i just left it on for half hour. It was fuckin terrible too.

There was one awesome part where this kid from Baton Rouge chose Bama over LSU and his mom got really bummed out, so they asked her why and she was like i hate Bama, LSU NUMBER 1, and the kid just started laughing

Yeah, again, at the risk of sounding like I JUST point out bama crap, that's another one that is very suspicious. They might not be "breaking any rules" on this one, but once again, Saban bends the shit out of them.

As you saw, everyone thought the kid was going to LSU. It was a "done deal". So how does Saban get him to agree to go that far from home? Gives his girlfriend a scholarship to attend, so the boy will go where the pussy is.

Yeah, Mom isn't too happy, and LSU fans are pretty pissed.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/a4drWJwvVKE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Snoogans]

Yeah, again, at the risk of sounding like I JUST point out bama crap, that's another one that is very suspicious. They might not be "breaking any rules" on this one, but once again, Saban bends the shit out of them.

As you saw, everyone thought the kid was going to LSU. It was a "done deal". So how does Saban get him to agree to go that far from home? Gives his girlfriend a scholarship to attend, so the boy will go where the pussy is.

Yeah, Mom isn't too happy, and LSU fans are pretty pissed.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/a4drWJwvVKE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

the funniest part is, like 4 months after he gets there, they will be broken up and he will be tryin to fuck every girl in Bama. That shit wont even matter

[underdog]

Yeah, again, at the risk of sounding like I JUST point out bama crap, that's another one that is very suspicious. They might not be "breaking any rules" on this one, but once again, Saban bends the shit out of them.

As you saw, everyone thought the kid was going to LSU. It was a "done deal". So how does Saban get him to agree to go that far from home? Gives his girlfriend a scholarship to attend, so the boy will go where the pussy is.

Yeah, Mom isn't too happy, and LSU fans are pretty pissed.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/a4drWJwvVKE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Maybe he just wants to get away from his shitty mom.

[ozzie]

the funniest part is, like 4 months after he gets there, they will be broken up and he will be tryin to fuck every girl in Bama. That shit wont even matter

It's still not official until signing day... and sometimes they still flip AFTER signing day.

This kid with the AU hat, that had just moments before announced his "commitment" to Auburn? Flipped to bama the weekend before signing day last year:

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e74/2004PontiacGTP/2011-01-08150609.jpg

And, yeah, NBC stages this shit too. But, still, fuck ESPN.

[JimBeam]

So how does Saban get him to agree to go that far from home?

Kids form both LSU and Alabama come from across the whole country never mind the southeast.

I went to LSU from the Bronx. My wife's cousin went to Alabama from Chappaqua NY.

It's not like he chose to go to Oregon from Baton Rouge ( but even that wouldn't be crazy in this day and age ).

[ozzie]

Kids form both LSU and Alabama come from across the whole country never mind the southeast.

I went to LSU from the Bronx. My wife's cousin went to Alabama from Chappaqua NY.

It's not like he chose to go to Oregon from Baton Rouge ( but even that wouldn't be crazy in this day and age ).

It's farther than "Mom" wanted him to go.

The family lives in New Orleans. She wanted him to go to Baton Rouge so the family could visit and attend games.

[underdog]

It's farther than "Mom" wanted him to go.

The family lives in New Orleans. She wanted him to go to Baton Rouge so the family could visit and attend games.

Again, maybe that's why he didn't want to go to LSU.

[Snacks]

Maybe he just wants to get away from his shitty mom.

thats what i was thinking. many kids want to actually go a little further away from home so they can have that college life without the headaches of their family and friends being so close by.

also. how do you know his gf got a scholarship to bama?

[Snoogans]

thats what i was thinking. many kids want to actually go a little further away from home so they can have that college life without the headaches of their family and friends being so close by.

also. how do you know his gf got a scholarship to bama?

it probably leaked out. its not uncommon. They tried to do that shit all the time int he 80s. SMU did it alot along with the cash they promised

[Snacks]

it probably leaked out. its not uncommon. They tried to do that shit all the time int he 80s. SMU did it alot along with the cash they promised

even if she did, thats a loophole that every school probably uses and even so I dont see a problem with it. now 2 people get an education but from what i read she already lives like 20 mins from bama so i dont know if she is older, already attends bama, maybe he met her while on a visit etc?

[ozzie]

thats what i was thinking. many kids want to actually go a little further away from home so they can have that college life without the headaches of their family and friends being so close by.

also. how do you know his gf got a scholarship to bama?

Type "Landon Collins Girlfriend" into a google search.

I got it from "the bunker" on the AU rivals site, which is a pay site, so I can't post a link.

Most of it is coming from disgruntled LSU fans, but the rivals main board has a lot of "insiders" who are spouting this as "fact", and saying that Landon has tweeted as much in the past.

I don't really give a shit, because the kid was never considering AU at all. It's just funny to me that when it happens to LSU, it's starts getting some attention.

They're pissed because he grew up in Geismar, LA (even if he said he's from "New Orleans") which is only 20 miles or so from Tiger Stadium. Everyone just assumed he was a lock to LSU, so last night was a real shock to them.

And even if she is awarded some kind of academic or athletic scholarship to bama, that's not against the rules. But if she got it over other deserving kids just to cooerce her boyfriend to commit there, it's not exactly "ethical" either.

I just hate that ESPN encourages these kids to string along a couple of schools, and wait until January to announce in on their programs. I need LSU to win on Monday, and I don't need their coaching staff having any other distractions.

[JimBeam]

I didn't see but what kinda propsect was this kid ?

Top 10, 25, 50, 100 ?

Making up fake schlarships is a long way to go to land a guy that you don't think is gonna be a mega star.

You'd have to promise that kinda thing to 30 kids and that's extending the conspiracy way too far.

Here's how that conversation between Saban and the president of the school would have to go :

Saban : " He look I'm really trying to land some good recruits. I need the university to give me not only the scholarships for the athletes but I'm gonna need 30 more for their friends/family/ "

President : " Oh so you just need me to give you 30 free educations ? And this gets us what ? "

Saban : " These kids could really be maybe might be descent some day. "

President : " That sounds like a great return on investment potential liability not withstanding. "

[ozzie]

even if she did, thats a loophole that every school probably uses and even so I dont see a problem with it. now 2 people get an education but from what i read she already lives like 20 mins from bama so i dont know if she is older, already attends bama, maybe he met her while on a visit etc?

Again, according to rumor, no, she's not enrolled yet, but will be enrolling at bama next fall. Still no "credible" source found to confirm anything, but the coonass that works for me just left my office repeating the same thing, and swears he's got someone that's gonna email him "proof".

I didn't see but what kinda propsect was this kid ?

Top 10, 25, 50, 100 ?

Making up fake schlarships is a long way to go to land a guy that you don't think is gonna be a mega star.

You'd have to promise that kinda thing to 30 kids and that's extending the conspiracy way too far.

Here's how that conversation between Saban and the president of the school would have to go :

Saban : " He look I'm really trying to land some good recruits. I need the university to give me not only the scholarships for the athletes but I'm gonna need 30 more for their friends/family/ "

President : " Oh so you just need me to give you 30 free educations ? And this gets us what ? "

Saban : " These kids could really be maybe might be descent some day. "

President : " That sounds like a great return on investment potential liability not withstanding. "

See, that's the thing. I'm not sure Saban even needs to clear this with the Prez, or anyone else.

He and his wife set up "The Saban Scholarships (http://www.rolltide.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/060808aaa.html)" in 2008.

This "girlfriend" could have been "awarded" one of those.

Again, there's nothing "illegal" or against NCAA rules about this... it's just another way to manipulate the system.

They only way to make this "fair", would be to put all HS prospects in a "draft", and let each school take their pick... but that would or could NEVER happen. The field will never be level. Some schools just have advantages over others, (like Saban scholarships to hand out?) and the "rich" get richer.

The only thing that kinda levels the playing field is the number of athletic scholarships they can hand out, and you might as well call that the "Bear Bryant Rule". Before then, bama would allow Bear to sign as many as he wanted. It's well documented that he'd do whatever it took to keep a top kid from signing at a rival school, and had basically an unlimited budget to do so.

And even now, there are ways around that. Figure this... you can only have 85 football scholarships, right? There's a whole SITE (http://oversigning.com/testing/) dedicated to trying to figure out how how bama gets around this every year. Their slogan is, "Where 30 + 29 + 28 + 32 = 85"... referring to how many bama signed in a series of years. (And, no, it's not an AU run site). And they're going to sign more than the 25 the SEC allows again this year. How? Count them against last year's class.

Their way around it is to go through, and any under-performing kids on scholarship, get "processed". Some transfer on their own, some are "encouraged", or however you want to look at it. But the thing bama does more than anyone else is to put kids on "medical hardship". Got a junior who doesn't project to start the next year, and is "wasting" one of Nick's precious scholarships? Oh, well, he tweaked his ankle, so he'll finish out school living in the athletic dorm, eating like a king, and still on a full academic ride as a "medical hardship".

Sure, this is available to every school, and most have used this. But the last time I looked, the combined SEC schools had used this loop hole a total 25 times... more than half of those were at Alabama. No one exploits a loop hole more than they do.

Then there's "grey shirting" and other shit. And, if all else fails, take on a few more that are "walk ons", where they somehow find the money to "pay their own way". There's a lot of financial checking that goes on with "walk ons" now, but back in the days when they first limited bear's scholarships...

As far as who this particular kid is... ESPN has him ranked as the #1 Safety in the country, and the #7 overall HS prospect.

Sure, there are no guarantees with any kid... but from all accounts, this kid is a baller.

[JimBeam]

I would think the NCAA would monitor in some way scholarship programs run by people directly related to athletic programs.

But who knows.

[Snoogans]

so i have myself signed up for text alerts from ESPN for certain things. Usually most of it is pretty cool info i wouldnt have otherwise seen. I have NCAA football, NBA and NFL news and then specific to my favorite team news. Occasionally, however, i get gems like these:

ESPN NFL - Tim Tebow sets sports Tweets per second record (9,420), surpassing Women's World Cup Final (7,196)



really? WHO THE FUCK EVEN CARED TO KEEP TRACK OF THAT? STOP IT

[ozzie]

so i have myself signed up for text alerts from ESPN for certain things. Usually most of it is pretty cool info i wouldnt have otherwise seen. I have NCAA football, NBA and NFL news and then specific to my favorite team news. Occasionally, however, i get gems like these:

ESPN NFL - Tim Tebow sets sports Tweets per second record (9,420), surpassing Women's World Cup Final (7,196)



really? WHO THE FUCK EVEN CARED TO KEEP TRACK OF THAT? STOP IT

How do they track that anyway? Is that what all that "hash tag" shit is about? Or do they have something that counts how many "tweets" (goddamn I hate typing that) included "tebow"?

All this tells me is that more and more people are on twitter every day, and they all comment on whatever pop culture shit is going on at the time.

My guess is that the superbowl (or someone or some team in it) will "out-tweet" Timmy... then exceeded by something during the 2012 summer olympics... followed by some other shit next fall.

[Snoogans]

How do they track that anyway? Is that what all that "hash tag" shit is about? Or do they have something that counts how many "tweets" (goddamn I hate typing that) included "tebow"?

All this tells me is that more and more people are on twitter every day, and they all comment on whatever pop culture shit is going on at the time.

My guess is that the superbowl (or someone or some team in it) will "out-tweet" Timmy... then exceeded by something during the 2012 summer olympics... followed by some other shit next fall.

that, and im sure more people were watching that game than were watching the womens WC final. Its so fuckin stupid.

[ozzie]

that, and im sure more people were watching that game than were watching the womens WC final. Its so fuckin stupid.

If ESPN is bothering to report this as sports news, it confirms the fact that they're just interested in ratings, and nothing else.

Some asshole is probably earning a paycheck watching google trends and twitter and reporting back to the suits on what the "hot topics" are.

Little Timmy breaking the fucking tweet per second record just means they'll think we want MORE St. Timothy, and I'm sure they'll be more than happy to oblige.

[hanso]

Breaking news Mon. was that Lady GaGa tweeted about Tebow.Glad my dvr picked this up before PTI started.

[ozzie]

When do the ratings come out?

I did a quick search, and could only find overnight ratings from network tv.

Just wondering if espn got their money's worth last night.

I'd love to see it by region. I'm sure they did very well in the southeast.

I thought it was pretty telling that espn started a crawl after the game telling viewers that the "BCS" was going to meet today to discuss changes.

It came off sounding like the moose outside of wally world. "Sorry for the two SEC teams tonight folks. We're working on it. Please come back and tune in again next season for America's second favorite sport! Sooooorry... uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh!"

[underdog]

When do the ratings come out?

I did a quick search, and could only find overnight ratings from network tv.

Just wondering if espn got their money's worth last night.

I'd love to see it by region. I'm sure they did very well in the southeast.

I thought it was pretty telling that espn started a crawl telling viewers that the "BCS" was going to meet today to discuss changes.

It came off sounding like the moose outside of wally world. "Sorry for the two SEC teams tonight folks. We're working on it. Please come back and tune in again next season for America's second favorite sport! Sooooorry... uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh!"

What kind of shitty football fan doesn't want to watch SEC team play each other?!

I think I'd watch every bowl game if it included two SEC teams.

I would have enjoyed Alabama or LSU going against a high powered offense, just to see what would happen (Les Miles and Saban are way too conservative sometimes), but last night's game felt like the two best teams in the nation playing each other.

[ozzie]

What kind of shitty football fan doesn't want to watch SEC team play each other?!

Off of the top of my head... I'd guess OkState fans weren't too thrilled about watching this game from home.

Does that make them "shitty football fans"?

[CountryBob]

Bama's defense was fucking unbelievable last night. LSU looked like my Hokies during the ACC conf championship game.

[underdog]

Off of the top of my head... I'd guess OkState fans weren't too thrilled about watching this game from home.

Does that make them "shitty football fans"?

No, but being OK State fans makes them shitty football fans.

[Snoogans]

No, but being OK State fans makes them shitty football fans.

THATS NOT TRUE!!!

https://encrypted-tbn1.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQcyULhobJOSPnLsPvgZIZqBoY8C1Oca Fn867F-4MIvO0jAMd95eQ

[JimBeam]

I'm a MAN. I'm 40.

And ranked #3.

[ozzie]

Alabama-LSU produces lowest TV rating for national championship in BCS era (http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2012/01/alabama-lsu_produces_lowest_tv.html)

[KnoxHarrington]

Alabama-LSU produces lowest TV rating for national championship in BCS era (http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2012/01/alabama-lsu_produces_lowest_tv.html)

This will get us a playoff if nothing else does.

[JimBeam]

And you think a Boise St/Houston game in round 1 of a playoff would do any better ?

I bet that game last night did better than Clemson/WVU.

[underdog]

Alabama-LSU produces lowest TV rating for national championship in BCS era (http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2012/01/alabama-lsu_produces_lowest_tv.html)

This will get us a playoff if nothing else does.

Was this the first one on ESPN?

[JimBeam]

Was this the first one on ESPN?

They've always been on netwrok TV as far as i can remember.

I watched in a bar kast night so I didn't notice the channel.

It wasn't on ABC ?

[Snoogans]

They've always been on netwrok TV as far as i can remember.

I watched in a bar kast night so I didn't notice the channel.

It wasn't on ABC ?

no, ESPN

[underdog]

no, ESPN

If this is the first year on ESPN, then the ratings against other years is meaningless.

[JimBeam]

What the hell were they showing on ABC that they didn't take the game ?

[Snoogans]

What the hell were they showing on ABC that they didn't take the game ?

Celebrity Wife Swap

[JimBeam]

That's just awful.

[underdog]

What the hell were they showing on ABC that they didn't take the game ?

I think ESPN recently won the rights to show the BCS Championship for the next few years.

[cougarjake13]

Yeh reg tv isn't just gonna give it up

They got outbid

[Snoogans]

I think ESPN recently won the rights to show the BCS Championship for the next few years.

ABC and ESPN are one company, so they can put it on either.

[underdog]

Alabama-LSU produces lowest TV rating for national championship in BCS era (http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2012/01/alabama-lsu_produces_lowest_tv.html)

Alabama-LSU produce 2nd highest rated cable program ever (http://www.espnmediazone3.com/us/2012/01/10/bcs-national-championship-cable%E2%80%99s-second-biggest-audience-of-all-time/)

2nd to only last year's BCS championship (on ESPN).

[JimBeam]

Ahhhh so there's another side of the story.

This is like a Fox News/CNN kinda thing.

But again wouldn't Disney, the parent company, expect to get more viewers by putting it on ABC as opposed to ESPN ?

[Snoogans]

Ahhhh so there's another side of the story.

This is like a Fox News/CNN kinda thing.

But again wouldn't Disney, the parent company, expect to get more viewers by putting it on ABC as opposed to ESPN ?

you are lookin at it wrong. its what would get more total viewers.

Meaning, celebrity wife swap on ABC and the game on ESPN would get way more total people than the game on ABC and then 6 straight reruns of NFL primetime on ESPN or whatever garbage is usually on monday night

[Snoogans]

ESPN NFL - Broncos QB Tim Tebow is America's favorite active pro athlete, according to ESPN sports poll.




what fuckin GEMS these text updates are.

[JimBeam]

I heard last week that Mark Schlereth ( sp ?? ) and some guy are getting an evening radio show.

Ugh

[Snoogans]

I heard last week that Mark Schlereth ( sp ?? ) and some guy are getting an evening radio show.

Ugh

probably stupid skip bayless or something retarded. cause we cant get enough of that motherfucker

[JimBeam]

They mentioned the guys name but I didn't recognize it.

I think he's a black guy that usually anchors one of the Sports Centers.

[JimBeam]

http://http://www.awfulannouncing.com/2012-articles/january/latest-odd-couple-espn-radio-show-debuts-tonight.html

Now I recognize the guy after seeing his face.

He filled in for Scott Van Pelt the week after Christmas.

[Snoogans]

yea that guy is on SC once in awhile. He is fuckin terrible. man this show is gonna be DOGSHIT

[JimBeam]

I don't wanna hear Schlereth for the short amount of time they have him on other shows nevermind for 3 hours.

[KnoxHarrington]

probably stupid skip bayless or something retarded. cause we cant get enough of that motherfucker

ESPN loves trolls. They want people who get other people talking about them, even if it's just to say "Holy shit, is this guy a fucking moron." They have Bayliss for the same reason they have Cowherd and Woody Paige.

[Snoogans]

I don't wanna hear Schlereth for the short amount of time they have him on other shows nevermind for 3 hours.

is this gonna be on all ESPN radios? Cause right now at 7pm when we dont have a knicks game (or awful NY Ronge), we get the LEGEND that is Stephen A Smith for 2 hours. As bad as he is, i really dont wanna lose that for these 2 bums. I could do without awful Bill Daughtry at 9pm though

[JimBeam]

I initially heard them talking about it on Mad Dog Radio.

My guess is it'll be on the non-local ESPN outlets like SiriusXM and ESPN.com.

[Snoogans]

ESPN loves trolls. They want people who get other people talking about them, even if it's just to say "Holy shit, is this guy a fucking moron." They have Bayliss for the same reason they have Cowherd and Woody Paige.

at least woody page is only allowed on as part of someone elses show. Bayliss has like a 4 hour show on ESPN 2 everyday. its fuckin insane.

Did they cancel cowherds stupid TV show yet or do enough people still watch it to jerk off to Michelle Beadle?

[cougarjake13]

at least woody page is only allowed on as part of someone elses show. Bayliss has like a 4 hour show on ESPN 2 everyday. its fuckin insane.

Did they cancel cowherds stupid TV show yet or do enough people still watch it to jerk off to Michelle Beadle?



Well Jim Rome just said he's moving to CBS so that's the slot they're taking I'm guessing

[Snoogans]

Well Jim Rome just said he's moving to CBS so that's the slot they're taking I'm guessing

roms show was only half hour long. i dont believe he did a radio show for ESPN, i think he just worked for some station in LA and did ESPN on the side. Not sure though

[JimBeam]

at least woody page is only allowed on as part of someone elses show. Bayliss has like a 4 hour show on ESPN 2 everyday. its fuckin insane.

Did they cancel cowherds stupid TV show yet or do enough people still watch it to jerk off to Michelle Beadle?

Both ( The Herd and SportsNation ) of Cowherd's shows are still on as of yesterday/today.

They simulcast him on cable but I notice move it around a lot.

It was at one point on ESPNU but a few times in the last few weeks it was moved to one of the other channels ( even though they didn't seem to be showing anything special on ESPNU ).

[cougarjake13]

roms show was only half hour long. i dont believe he did a radio show for ESPN, i think he just worked for some station in LA and did ESPN on the side. Not sure though



No radio show on Espn
Thought it said stink was gettin a tv show

[spoon]

yah, pretty much everything on espn is fucking awful, including the knicks...the only thing I CAN stand is a ranger game here and there

[Snoogans]

yah, pretty much everything on espn is fucking awful, including the knicks...the only thing I CAN stand is a ranger game here and there

the knicks are hardly ever on ESPN. And the Rangers never are. Did you mean MSG?

[spoon]

is this gonna be on all ESPN radios? Cause right now at 7pm when we dont have a knicks game (or awful NY Ronge), we get the LEGEND that is Stephen A Smith for 2 hours. As bad as he is, i really dont wanna lose that for these 2 bums. I could do without awful Bill Daughtry at 9pm though

no, it was mainly to counterpoint that...but WFAN has the devs, espn is the flagship for the rangers

[Snoogans]

no, it was mainly to counterpoint that...but WFAN has the devs, espn is the flagship for the rangers

oh i thought you meant ESPN TV, thats why i was confused.

[JimBeam]

I got the sample of Hill & Schlereth this morning because they were filling in for Cowherd.

It was as dreadful as we imagined.

2 minutes into it Schlereth had to remind the audience that he was on a team that won 2 straight titles.

[Snacks]

I got the sample of Hill & Schlereth this morning because they were filling in for Cowherd.

It was as dreadful as we imagined.

2 minutes into it Schlereth had to remind the audience that he was on a team that won 2 straight titles.

i cant listen and watch when hes on tv schlereth, listening to him on the radio has to be even worse.

he got to be one of the worst sports tv analyst i have heard. its not his knowledge as much as its the way he talks and how he seems very douche to me.

[cougarjake13]

He maybe it's the close proximity between Wwe n ESPN but they seem to like keep hiring former Wwe employees

[KnoxHarrington]

Fucking ESPN. So ESPN.com is running a feature called "#NFLAnyEra" (yes, the title is a goddam Twitter hashtag) in which they try to pick players who would have succeeded in any era of the NFL, who would compete with Hall of Fame players.

Guess who they have at #19. (http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7403681/no-19-broncos-qb-tim-tebow)

Seriously, ESPN, knock this shit off

[Snacks]

Fucking ESPN. So ESPN.com is running a feature called "#NFLAnyEra" (yes, the title is a goddam Twitter hashtag) in which they try to pick players who would have succeeded in any era of the NFL, who would compete with Hall of Fame players.

Guess who they have at #19. (http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7403681/no-19-broncos-qb-tim-tebow)

Seriously, ESPN, knock this shit off

thats funny and sad all at the same time

[HBox]

Fucking ESPN. So ESPN.com is running a feature called "#NFLAnyEra" (yes, the title is a goddam Twitter hashtag) in which they try to pick players who would have succeeded in any era of the NFL, who would compete with Hall of Fame players.

Guess who they have at #19. (http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7403681/no-19-broncos-qb-tim-tebow)

Seriously, ESPN, knock this shit off

Tim Tebow is a perfect early 1900s QB.

[cougarjake13]

it'll nvr end

cause even when he retires he'll become coach and then maybe gm and all the nfl will be full of tebows

[Snoogans]

Tim Tebow is a perfect early 1900s QB.

i agree, the first guy i thought of was tebow cause they never threw back then


WING T BABY

[underdog]

Tim Tebow is a perfect early 1900s QB.

He'd probably have been great in the 40s.

[underdog]

While doing the highlights for the Aussie Open, one of the sportscenter anchors just said, "Is wayne brady gonna have to choke a bitch?"

He might have changed it to "is wayne brady gonna have to djokovic", but it was still fucking weird.

[ozzie]

Yeah, again, at the risk of sounding like I JUST point out bama crap, that's another one that is very suspicious. They might not be "breaking any rules" on this one, but once again, Saban bends the shit out of them.

As you saw, everyone thought the kid was going to LSU. It was a "done deal". So how does Saban get him to agree to go that far from home? Gives his girlfriend a scholarship to attend, so the boy will go where the pussy is.

Yeah, Mom isn't too happy, and LSU fans are pretty pissed.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/a4drWJwvVKE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I guess the scholarship thing was just a rumor, but now Yahoo is reporting:

Landon Collins’ mom claims Nick Saban offered her son’s girlfriend a job (http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaaf-dr-saturday/landon-collins-mom-claims-nick-saban-offered-her-195755038.html)

[HBox]

I guess the scholarship thing was just a rumor, but now Yahoo is reporting:

Landon Collins’ mom claims Nick Saban offered her son’s girlfriend a job (http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaaf-dr-saturday/landon-collins-mom-claims-nick-saban-offered-her-195755038.html)

Wow. What a cunt. Way to try to ruin your son's and his girlfriend's lives.

[Tenbatsuzen]

Wow. What a cunt. Way to try to ruin your son's and his girlfriend's lives.

GEE I WONDER WHAT PROBLEM THE MOM HAD WITH THE GIRLFRIEND

[ozzie]

Wow. What a cunt. Way to try to ruin your son's and his girlfriend's lives.

The fucker of it is... even if it's true, I'm not sure if there's anything "illegal" about it, or if this is yet just another loophole that Saban has exploited.

They've got another kid right now that they offered a scholarship... but when Saban needed to make room, they found another loophole.

Nick Saban to Atlanta RB: You can’t sign with Alabama until 2013 (http://blogs.ajc.com/recruiting/2012/01/15/nick-saban-tells-star-atlanta-rb-to-wait-until-next-year-to-sign-with-alabama/)

What will do you do this fall? “He said I’m going to stay in Georgia. They are going to find me a job. I’m going to work. I’m going to physical therapy at least seven days per week. I guess I will work, go to physical therapy and get strong … I will come in with the class of 2013. I’ll get there with the early group so I can do winter workouts and spring football.”

So he doesn't enroll now, earns money at a job that someone at bama has found for him, while bama (presumably) pays for him to go to physical therapy every day, and then joins the team next year?

And, somehow, this is ok?

So I guess if Reggie Bush's parents were simply given positions at the university, then he'd still have his heisman?

It doesn't make any sense.

[Gutter]

dumb twat probably wants all the fame in her hometown that would come along with her son being a star at LSU. I'm sure she's been taking advantage of that very well during his high school years.

[Tenbatsuzen]

ANd BTW, good on Landon, his girlfriend is SMOKING hot.

His mother is so self-absorbed it's mindboggling. Her son is still going to play for one of the top echelon programs in the country, have an EXCELLENT shot at a national title every year.

[HBox]

Well hopefully this kid goes on to have a successful NFL career and this bitch dies penniless in a ditch somewhere.

[ozzie]

ANd BTW, good on Landon, his girlfriend is SMOKING hot.

His mother is so self-absorbed it's mindboggling. Her son is still going to play for one of the top echelon programs in the country, have an EXCELLENT shot at a national title every year.

Yeah, I don't know what to believe anymore.

Last week it was rumored on rivals that the reason Mom wanted him at LSU, was that when Saban visited, he only talked to Landon about getting him into the NFL. Nothing about earning a degree.

Now this.

[Tenbatsuzen]

Yeah, I don't know what to believe anymore.

Last week it was rumored on rivals that the reason Mom wanted him at LSU, was that when Saban visited, he only talked to Landon about getting him into the NFL. Nothing about earning a degree.

Now this.

It just shows how dumb the mom is and how she's doing it out of spite. She doesn't "leak" it to some source, she just comes right out and says it.

And National Signing Day is still days away, Bama and LSU could pull their commitments over this shit, can't they?

That Heisman talk really bothers me. Nothing about winning as a team, nothing about getting to the NFL, it's all about her son's playing time. Disturbing.

Helicopter mom.