Rep. Gabrielle Giffords and Staff Shot in Arizona

[foodcourtdruide]

This has the making of an extremely awful story. I'm hoping for the best for the Congress Woman and her staff. It seems like some lunatic shot up an event she was holding:

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/rep-gabrielle-giffords-shot-grocery-store-event/story?id=12571452

[Zorro]

NPR reporting she's dead...

http://www.npr.org/2011/01/08/132764367/congresswoman-shot-in-arizona

that sucks

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Just heard on the radio there were others killed including a child. Such terrible news

[weekapaugjz]

fucked up.

The suspect ran off and was tackled by a bystander.

nice.

[Tenbatsuzen]

Palin better hope to God this fucker is just some lone nut and not whipped up by Teabag furor. Palin literally "targeted" her.

[underdog]

Palin better hope to God this fucker is just some lone nut and not whipped up by Teabag furor. Palin literally "targeted" her.

Yup (http://www.businessinsider.com/sarah-palin-take-back-the-20-2010-9)

[A.J.]

She has the dubious honor of being the second member of Congress to be killed in the line of duty. The first was Rep. Leo Ryan who was shot in killed at Jonestown back in 1978.

[Tenbatsuzen]

It appears Rep. Giffords is on the table in surgery, so she is just "mostly dead".

[Tenbatsuzen]

She has the dubious honor of being the second member of Congress to be killed in the line of duty. The first was Rep. Leo Ryan who was shot in killed at Jonestown back in 1978.

You are the second person who has said that. It's not "line of duty" because she is not cop, firefighter, or military. The better term is "while in office".

[Dudeman]

Yup (http://www.businessinsider.com/sarah-palin-take-back-the-20-2010-9)

Some comments from that website (Here's Where Sarah Palin Has Gone Democrat Huntin')

Remi Online (URL) on Sep 23, 1:33 PM said:
with a gun?or whit what?just kidin'

1termpresident on Sep 23, 1:35 PM said:
The Democrats will pay the price for not following the will of the peopl

shall on Sep 23, 4:33 PM said:
@Tea Bag Hypocrite: quit all the bellyaching about Palin.
At least she's out there kicking the excrement out of these socialist a-holes.

[A.J.]

You are the second person who has said that. It's not "line of duty" because she is not cop, firefighter, or military. The better term is "while in office".

True that. But I was quoting what I read.

[Zorro]

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/09/us/politics/09giffords.html?_r=1&hp

Second to last paragraph the Time with all sublety seems to implicate Fox news...

[Tenbatsuzen]

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/09/us/politics/09giffords.html?_r=1&hp

Second to last paragraph the Time with all sublety seems to implicate Fox news...

I still am leaning towards gun psycho and not politically motivated, as morbid as it sounds. If it's true he took out a kid, that smacks of crazy, not politically motivated assassin.

[booster11373]

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/09/us/politics/09giffords.html?_r=1&hp

Second to last paragraph the Time with all sublety seems to implicate Fox news...

Ms. Giffords, 40, was interviewed on Fox news on Friday to talk about a bill to cut to congressional salaries by 5 percent.

subtle implication? the last paragraph mentions she is married to an astronaut maybe NASA is involved?

[epo]

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/09/us/politics/09giffords.html?_r=1&hp

Second to last paragraph the Time with all sublety seems to implicate Fox news...

Bullshit.

[epo]

I still am leaning towards gun psycho and not politically motivated, as morbid as it sounds. If it's true he took out a kid, that smacks of crazy, not politically motivated assassin.

I'm leaning towards waiting for further details to come out about the white male who is responsible.

[Snacks]

I wouldnt be surprised if it was one of the many right wing nuts who listen to Beck, Palin, Rush etc and took their spews of hate and decided to shoot a Dem!

Sad day for America!

[Dudeman]

I still am leaning towards gun psycho and not politically motivated, as morbid as it sounds. If it's true he took out a kid, that smacks of crazy, not politically motivated assassin.

gun psycho and politically motivated aren't mutually exclusive. bottom line, though, is that time will tell about the person who did this.

[Zorro]

Some comments from that website (Here's Where Sarah Palin Has Gone Democrat Huntin')

Remi Online (URL) on Sep 23, 1:33 PM said:
with a gun?or whit what?just kidin'

1termpresident on Sep 23, 1:35 PM said:
The Democrats will pay the price for not following the will of the peopl

shall on Sep 23, 4:33 PM said:
@Tea Bag Hypocrite: quit all the bellyaching about Palin.
At least she's out there kicking the excrement out of these socialist a-holes.

You guys are super fast with the finger pointing.

[Dudeman]

You guys are super fast with the finger pointing.

you're right. (but that website from palin's pac is frightening, not to mention sharron angle's call for "Second Amendment remedies".)

[hanso]

If she needs an organ transplant. They might let her die on the table. As that is not funded thanks to bat shit Gov. Jan Brewer. There is your death panel.

[Tenbatsuzen]

I'm leaning towards waiting for further details to come out about the white male who is responsible.

Agreed. I'm in the camp of not pointing fingers. To be honest though, part of me kinda hope he was obsessed with Palin and did it for her. Would destroy her credibility for good.

[Tenbatsuzen]

If she needs an organ transplant. They might let her die on the table. As that is not funded thanks to bat shit Gov. Jan Brewer. There is your death panel.

Wow, you're dumb. The person who needed the organ transplant had their coverage lapse. As Giffords is a member of Congress, I assure you, there is no such problem there.

[Zorro]

I wouldnt be surprised if it was one of the many right wing nuts who listen to Beck, Palin, Rush etc and took their spews of hate and decided to shoot a Dem!

Sad day for America!

of course you wouldn't be surprised. Like I'm not surprised that my cousin the birther also listens to Alex Jones and is convinced the Queen of England is the head of some cabal seeking world domination. He also believes that Obama is keeping Dick Cheney alive for some reason i cannot quite understand...apparently Dick has something on him..

[Dudeman]

One frightening thing is that the 2nd amendment freaks will use this to support their position... if the congresswoman had a gun, she would have been able to defend herself.

[Ritalin]

Agreed. I'm in the camp of not pointing fingers. To be honest though, part of me kinda hope he was obsessed with Palin and did it for her. Would destroy her credibility for good.

It already is. That map with the targets is game over.

[Snoogans]

no one thinks its possibly to do with the immigration shit?

[Ritalin]

If it does, that doesn't make it any less crazy.

For a second I thought about Mexican drug guys. It's their style.

[foodcourtdruide]

Why is our media so fucking retarded? What was the point of reporting she was dead before they knew for sure she was? I'm sure the congresswoman has friends/family that are relying on the media for information.

[Tenbatsuzen]

If it does, that doesn't make it any less crazy.

For a second I thought about Mexican drug guys. It's their style.

Clean cut white male was the shooter. But the Mexican drug lords don't care about people leaving their country ONCE THEY'RE GONE. They are concerned with the transport, but Giffords would have nothing to do with that.

[epo]

no one thinks its possibly to do with the immigration shit?

If it was, its really dumb because Giffords supported Arizona on the issue and wanted the federal government to do more.

Of course...it doesn't mean its not within the realm of possibility.

[foodcourtdruide]

If it was, its really dumb because Giffords supported Arizona on the issue and wanted the federal government to do more.

Of course...it doesn't mean its not within the realm of possibility.

It's really all speculation. This could have just been a random psychopath.

[epo]

It's really all speculation. This could have just been a random psychopath.

Absolutely.

All we know is what has been reported: White male, 20s, semi-automatic weapon.

Speculation beyond that is useless.

[disneyspy]

Absolutely.

All we know is what has been reported: White male, 20s, semi-automatic weapon.

Speculation beyond that is useless.

i bet he was having an affair with the guys wife

[Snoogans]

Absolutely.

All we know is what has been reported: White male, 20s, semi-automatic weapon.

Speculation beyond that is useless.

an article i just read said it was an automatic weapon. i was wondering if they just didnt specify cause the news is stupid and acts like they are the same thing

[epo]

an article i just read said it was an automatic weapon. i was wondering if they just didnt specify cause the news is stupid and acts like they are the same thing

The likely answer is yes.

[Ritalin]

Clean cut white male was the shooter. But the Mexican drug lords don't care about people leaving their country ONCE THEY'RE GONE. They are concerned with the transport, but Giffords would have nothing to do with that.


See you're problem is trying to assign logical motives to those Mexican drug gangs. They shoot up entire bithday parties and chop heads off all the time.

[underdog]

I'm going to blame Obama.

[underdog]

Absolutely.

All we know is what has been reported: White male, 20s, semi-automatic weapon.

Speculation beyond that is useless.

If it was a black male, his color never would have been reported, maaaaaan.

[epo]

I'm betting her 2010 Republican (tea party) opponent Jesse Kelly wishes he didn't do this event on June 12:

http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/1294/aakelly048c.png

[Pitdoc]

I'm going to blame Obama.

According to Fox News, it's the only sensible thing to do.

[Ritalin]

Nah. Even if it turns out that the guy was a nutcase teabagger, it's not Fox News fault. Crazy is crazy.

[underdog]

Palin pulled her graphic with crosshairs off the website, apparently. Whoops.

[Ritalin]

Her father Spencer Giffords, 75, was rushing to the hospital when asked if his 40-year-old daughter had any enemies. "Yeah," he told The New York Post. "The whole tea party."

[KnoxHarrington]

I hope that if actual evidence emerges that this guy was a follower of the Tea Party or Palin, the media reports it and doesn't pussy out like they have on similar stories to this (like the nutbar flying a plane into the IRS building.)

You can't sling the violent, reckless shit that the teabaggers spew all the time without blowback. They need to get called out.

[Ritalin]

Dr. Steven Rayle, a former emergency room doctor who now works in a hospice, said that he had witnessed the shootings. He said the congresswoman was standing behind a table outside the Safeway greeting passersby when the gunman approached her from behind, held a gun about a foot from her head and began firing.

. “He must have got off 20 rounds,” he said. Ms. Giffords slumped to the ground and staff members immediately rushed to her aid, Dr. Rayle said.

Dr. Rayle said he performed CPR on some of the victims. He said one of the victims was a young child and appeared to be in critical condition with a gunshot wound.

[epo]

And a federal judge got killed too.

Wow.

[foodcourtdruide]

I hope that if actual evidence emerges that this guy was a follower of the Tea Party or Palin, the media reports it and doesn't pussy out like they have on similar stories to this (like the nutbar flying a plane into the IRS building.)

You can't sling the violent, reckless shit that the teabaggers spew all the time without blowback. They need to get called out.

It all goes back to the media's bizarre obsession with presenting the two sides as being equally rational. How hard is it to find quotes from tea baggers about shooting their opponents? Why is that?

[foodcourtdruide]

And a federal judge got killed too.

Wow.

Wow. This will be one of the darkest days in our nation's history.

[epo]

What we know:

White Male, 20s, 9mm Glock

[KnoxHarrington]

It all goes back to the media's bizarre obsession with presenting the two sides as being equally rational. How hard is it to find quotes from tea baggers about shooting their opponents? Why is that?

Because they're shit-scared of Fox News calling them "liberals."

Fuck the press.

[Ritalin]

What we know:

White Male, 20s, 9mm Glock

Looking for a second suspect, according to Fox - who seem to be covering this the best. MSNBC isn't bad, CNN is lost in space.

[Snacks]

One frightening thing is that the 2nd amendment freaks will use this to support their position... if the congresswoman had a gun, she would have been able to defend herself.

they seem to think if everyone had a gun this wouldnt happen. Yes it would but the shooter would just be killed quicker afterwards by the other people. The person who was shot would still be shot. So that argument has always made me laugh.

Im on the fence about gun issues. The laws only make it harder for regular people getting them. Criminals dont follow those laws so it doesnt prevent bad people getting guns. Then again if we limited gun sales and gun production maybe these things wouldnt happen. Guns get in bad peoples hands by trickle down effect. Most guns are originally purchased the right way then they are either stolen or sold illegally afterwards and thats how the criminal gets them.

So maybe if we stop production except for police and military these things wouldnt happen?

[epo]

Because they're shit-scared of Fox News calling them "liberals."

Fuck the press.

Here's one for you:

“We need to realize that the rhetoric, and the firing people up and … for example, we’re on Sarah Palin’s ‘targeted’ list, but the thing is, the way she has it depicted, we’re in the crosshairs of a gun sight over our district. When people do that, they’ve gotta realize that there are consequences to that action.” - U.S. Representative Gabrielle Giffords

I'm sure the media is ignoring that one.

[Snoogans]

they seem to think if everyone had a gun this wouldnt happen. Yes it would but the shooter would just be killed quicker afterwards by the other people. The person who was shot would still be shot. So that argument has always made me laugh.

Im on the fence about gun issues. The laws only make it harder for regular people getting them. Criminals dont follow those laws so it doesnt prevent bad people getting guns. Then again if we limited gun sales and gun production maybe these things wouldnt happen. Guns get in bad peoples hands by trickle down effect. Most guns are originally purchased the right way then they are either stolen or sold illegally afterwards and thats how the criminal gets them.

So maybe if we stop production except for police and military these things wouldnt happen?

most of these guns arent american. Glocks are from Austria. The majority of illegal guns in the US are not produced in the US so it wouldnt matter.

[Ritalin]

I have no use for guns and I think they should be tightly regulated and licensed. I served in the Army so I'm not afraid of a weapon.

And when I stay at my Uncle's way out in bumfuck nowhere, I get it. I can't blame him for owning a gun.

[epo]

White Male, 22, 9mm Glock

[Tenbatsuzen]

White Male, 22, 9mm Glock

anthony cumia laughs

[epo]

Jared Laughner, White Male, 22, 9mm Glock

[Dudeman]

“We need to realize that the rhetoric, and the firing people up and … for example, we’re on Sarah Palin’s ‘targeted’ list, but the thing is, the way she has it depicted, we’re in the crosshairs of a gun sight over our district. When people do that, they’ve gotta realize that there are consequences to that action.” - U.S. Representative Gabrielle Giffords

that's a great quote. but we still need to wait for the details.

[A.J.]

Guns get in bad peoples hands by trickle down effect. Most guns are originally purchased the right way then they are either stolen or sold illegally afterwards and thats how the criminal gets them.

If only trickle-down economics worked as efficiently....

[A.J.]

Jared Laughner, White Male, 22, 9mm Glock

That son of a bitch. I'll bet he'll use the "Subway Defense".

http://stupidcelebrities.net/wp-content/jaredmain.jpg

[epo]

Wanna bet that Chuck Todd feels like an asshole? (http://kateoplis.tumblr.com/post/2655554409/msnbc-talks-to-rep-gabrielle-gifford-about-the)

[Dudeman]

Jared Laughner, White Male, 22, 9mm Glock

found a facebook page. not much their except a small pic.

[epo]

found a facebook page. not much their except a small pic.

Sounds like the spelling could be Loughner or Laughner. Not sure.

[Tenbatsuzen]

9 year old is dead, Giffords expected to make it.

[StanUpshaw]

Look at this fucking thread.


And I'M the one who gets called a creep.

[keithy_19]

9 year old is dead, Giffords expected to make it.

Federal judge is also among the deceased.

[underdog]

Look at this fucking thread.


And I'M the one who gets called a creep.

Creep.

[Tenbatsuzen]

Look at this fucking thread.


And I'M the one who gets called a creep.

yeah, because you just made it about yourself

[foodcourtdruide]

Look at this fucking thread.


And I'M the one who gets called a creep.

Huh?

[keithy_19]

Judge John Roll.

[disneyspy]

yeah, because you just made it about yourself

listen to the master

[Zorro]

If she needs an organ transplant. They might let her die on the table. As that is not funded thanks to bat shit Gov. Jan Brewer. There is your death panel.

What transplants are not covered? Do you know? Do you know why? Do you know how decisions about who gets a transplant are made? Did you know that many of the other mandates of the new federal health care legislation draws money away from transplants? Do you know that 100% of people that receive a liver because of Hepatitis C will have that new liver destroyed by the same disease? Do you know how many people get turned down for transplants when funding is not an issue?

[Dudeman]

What transplants are not covered? Do you know? Do you know why? Do you know how decisions about who gets a transplant are made? Did you know that many of the other mandates of the new federal health care legislation draws money away from transplants? Do you know that 100% of people that receive a liver because of Hepatitis C will have that new liver destroyed by the same disease? Do you know how many people get turned down for transplants when funding is not an issue?

I'm not sure what you're point is. I've taken care of many transplant patients. What's the point of your hepC comment- people with FSGS can get a kidney transplant even though the same disease will attack the transplanted kidney.

This is an article about the arizona transplant issue. (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/19/us/19transplant.html)

"When Arizona lawmakers voted last spring to cut some state-financed transplant coverage, they relied on data provided by state health officials showing that the procedures were rarely successful. But transplant experts and some patients who have undergone the now-discontinued procedures question the state’s numbers."

"Liver transplants for those with hepatitis C, which the state also discontinued, have a survival rate exceeding 80 percent after one year and 60 percent after five years, the transplant group said. Arizona’s study of such procedures was far more pessimistic, saying such transplants “do not significantly affect the diseases they are intended to cure.”

[Zorro]

Look at this fucking thread.


And I'M the one who gets called a creep.

Yeah but they mean that in the nicest way

[Tenbatsuzen]

I'm not sure what you're point is. I've taken care of many transplant patients. What's the point of your hepC comment- people with fsgs can get a kidney transplant even though the same disease will attack the transplanted kidney.

Arizona hospital let someone who had no insurance get denied a transplant who had Hep C.

Hanso was drawing a corollary between that incident and this one.

[keithy_19]

Guy was a nut (obviously). Shep Smith has been reading various things the guy has written and he talks a lot about illiterate people and how he won't support a currency that is based on gold and has in God we trust on it. He's all over the place.

[underdog]

ramblings of the supposed shooter (http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:EHMYwjAu6p8J:www.bollywoodsargam.co m/video_todayfeaturedvideo.php%3Fblockbustermoviecli p%3DmFQDJEnJkp0----Top_Secret%253A_Your_Unlocatable_Street!_(Time_%25 26_Double_Blind_Grammar)_featured_hollywood_blockb uster_video.html%20Classitup10&cd=17&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us)

alleged youtube page of the shooter (http://www.youtube.com/user/Classitup10)

[keithy_19]

Some of his favorite books: The Communist Manifesto, Mein Kampf.

[midwestjeff]

Somebody better call this guy.
And call, don't text, because Machete don't text.

http://www.onlinemovieshut.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/machete.jpg

[Tenbatsuzen]

Guy was a nut (obviously). Shep Smith has been reading various things the guy has written and he talks a lot about illiterate people and how he won't support a currency that is based on gold and has in God we trust on it. He's all over the place.

So you're basically saying we should go get Jerry Lehane?

[Tenbatsuzen]

Some of his favorite books: The Communist Manifesto, Mein Kampf.

So he IS or he ISN'T a Palin supporter? I'm confused.

[keithy_19]

So he IS or he ISN'T a Palin supporter? I'm confused.

People jump the gun with this stuff. The point of it is, regardless of affiliation the guy is psychotic.

[underdog]

So he IS or he ISN'T a Palin supporter? I'm confused.

He reads. He obviously isn't a Palin supporter.

[HBox]

There seem to some empty constitution rhetoric that is somewhat reminiscent of what you'd hear from the tea party but mostly it's a ridiculously huge amount of indecipherable crazy.

The guy is a maniac, plain and simple.

[Zorro]

I'm not sure what you're point is. I've taken care of many transplant patients. What's the point of your hepC comment- people with FSGS can get a kidney transplant even though the same disease will attack the transplanted kidney.

This is an article about the arizona transplant issue. (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/19/us/19transplant.html)

"When Arizona lawmakers voted last spring to cut some state-financed transplant coverage, they relied on data provided by state health officials showing that the procedures were rarely successful. But transplant experts and some patients who have undergone the now-discontinued procedures question the state’s numbers."

"Liver transplants for those with hepatitis C, which the state also discontinued, have a survival rate exceeding 80 percent after one year and 60 percent after five years, the transplant group said. Arizona’s study of such procedures was far more pessimistic, saying such transplants “do not significantly affect the diseases they are intended to cure.”


I asked a lot of questions because I think it's a complicated issue. The original post made it sound as if you couldn't get a transplant in Arizona.

My point was and remains that we have limited resources and how we allocate those resources is an essential conversation that this country has avoided for far too long and the health care law did nothing to address. We love simple answers to complex questions but the answers are not simple. To vilify Arizona or Oregon (it has implemented other cost containment measures) as bat shit or shortsighted is to attack the only people in this country that seem willing to take on this tough issue.

[sailor]

sad news.

glad she'll make it, if that turns out to be correct. would the governor appoint someone or would there be an election? even if you're a republican, you'd have to want someone similar to her beliefs to take her place. you don't want political change like this.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Unfortunalely keyboard detectives immediately said teabaggers, Fox News Glenn Beck etc. The shooter's beliefs appear to be all over the place. Remember when that guy flew his plane into the IRS building people assumed it was some crazy right wing ant government person but in his diatribe he was critical of Bush for not having a national healthcare system but all the hysteria was that he was a teabagger. The search warrants for his computer havent even been signed yet but as usual people always want to jump the gun

[Zorro]

more books by Loughner: I had favorite books: Animal Farm, Brave New World, The Wizard Of OZ, Aesop Fables, The Odyssey, Alice Adventures Into Wonderland, Fahrenheit 451, Peter Pan, To Kill A Mockingbird, We The Living, Phantom Toll Booth, One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest, Pulp,Through The Looking Glass, The Communist Manifesto, Siddhartha, The Old Man And The Sea, Gulliver's Travels, Mein Kampf, The Republic, and Meno.




His youtube site. Prolly be taken down...
http://www.youtube.com/user/Classitup10#p/a/u/1/nHoaZaLbqB4

[Dudeman]

Unfortunalely keyboard detectives immediately said teabaggers, Fox News Glenn Beck etc. The shooter's beliefs appear to be all over the place. Remember when that guy flew his plane into the IRS building people assumed it was some crazy right wing ant government person but in his diatribe he was critical of Bush for not having a national healthcare system but all the hysteria was that he was a teabagger. The search warrants for his computer havent even been signed yet but as usual people always want to jump the gun

why did palin reportedly take down her graphic of crosshairs over the 20 democratic reps? did she "jump the gun"?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

sad news.

glad she'll make it, if that turns out to be correct. would the governor appoint someone or would there be an election? even if you're a republican, you'd have to want someone similar to her beliefs to take her place. you don't want political change like this.

From what I have seen on the news. She was a fairly conservative dem. She is a gun owner herself and was a border hawk.

This is a tragedy, unfortunately this probably won't be the last of events like these. Politicians on both sides are vulnerable. I know Palins name has been thrown into thisd debate but there are tons of people who hate her. If something did like this hapened to her there would be a lot of nutjobs on the daily kos posting vile comments too.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

why did palin reportedly take down her graphic of crosshairs over the 20 democratic reps? did she "jump the gun"?

People make assumptions all the time. Bloomberg thought it was someone opposed to Obamacare who ws the times square would be bomber

[Dudeman]

I asked a lot of questions because I think it's a complicated issue. The original post made it sound as if you couldn't get a transplant in Arizona.

My point was and remains that we have limited resources and how we allocate those resources is an essential conversation that this country has avoided for far too long and the health care law did nothing to address. We love simple answers to complex questions but the answers are not simple. To vilify Arizona or Oregon (it has implemented other cost containment measures) as bat shit or shortsighted is to attack the only people in this country that seem willing to take on this tough issue.

If this guy turns out to be schizophrenic, then the question will turn to funding of mental health. Cutting those services doesn't just harm the mentally ill, but obviously can harm those around them. (See Va Tech shooting.)

28,000 state residents affected by drastic cuts to behavioral health this year.
The cuts, which amount to a $65 million drop since 2008, affect Arizonans who need behavioral-health services but do not qualify for the Arizona Health Care Cost Containment System (AHCCCS), which is the state's version of Medicaid and is for Arizona's poorest residents. The cuts represent a 52 percent reduction over two fiscal years. (http://azstarnet.com/news/science/health-med-fit/article_1404e540-646e-5155-90d0-5b6274f1068d.html)

tax cuts for the rich!!

[foodcourtdruide]

From what I have seen on the news. She was a fairly conservative dem. She is a gun owner herself and was a border hawk.

This is a tragedy, unfortunately this probably won't be the last of events like these. Politicians on both sides are vulnerable. I know Palins name has been thrown into thisd debate but there are tons of people who hate her. If something did like this hapened to her there would be a lot of nutjobs on the daily kos posting vile comments too.

The vile hatred is on the fringe for the left, but it's moving towards the center for the right. You can pretend this isn't true all you want, but it's why a lot of people drew a connection between the shooter and the tea party immediately. Have you heard the stuff Beck says? He's seemingly preparing his listeners for an impending revolution. I agree that nonsense goes on for the left also, but NO WHERE is it as tolerated as it is by the right.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

The vile hatred is on the fringe for the left, but it's moving towards the center for the right. You can pretend this isn't true all you want, but it's why a lot of people drew a connection between the shooter and the tea party immediately. Have you heard the stuff Beck says? He's seemingly preparing his listeners for an impending revolution. I agree that nonsense goes on for the left also, but NO WHERE is it as tolerated as it is by the right.

Im not denying that the right has its fringe. Im saying that it's on both sides. Beck and Alex Jones have a bigger platform. There are a lot of left wing revolutionaries too but they don't have their own tv and radio shows

[underdog]

From what I have seen on the news. She was a fairly conservative dem. She is a gun owner herself and was a border hawk.

This is a tragedy, unfortunately this probably won't be the last of events like these. Politicians on both sides are vulnerable. I know Palins name has been thrown into thisd debate but there are tons of people who hate her. If something did like this hapened to her there would be a lot of nutjobs on the daily kos posting vile comments too.

The vast majority of the people who hate Palin don't have guns.

[keithy_19]

The vile hatred is on the fringe for the left, but it's moving towards the center for the right. You can pretend this isn't true all you want, but it's why a lot of people drew a connection between the shooter and the tea party immediately. Have you heard the stuff Beck says? He's seemingly preparing his listeners for an impending revolution. I agree that nonsense goes on for the left also, but NO WHERE is it as tolerated as it is by the right.

Once again, I would like to remind everyone that Beck has said that he wants his viewers to act out in violence. He has never said anything about being peaceful.

[underdog]

Im not denying that the right has its fringe. Im saying that it's on both sides. Beck and Alex Jones have a bigger platform. There are a lot of left wing revolutionaries too but they don't have their own tv and radio shows

Alex Jones isn't the left's answer to Beck.

Beck is a mainstream person on a major cable news network. Stop trying to compare the two. There is no one on the left close to Palin/Beck trying to incite people of the left against the right.

[A.J.]

sad news.

glad she'll make it, if that turns out to be correct. would the governor appoint someone or would there be an election? even if you're a republican, you'd have to want someone similar to her beliefs to take her place. you don't want political change like this.

A special election would take place only if she was physically unable to return to office, and resigns her seat, or if she dies. On the other hand, spouses of Members of Congress have been known to fill the seats in such cases. One of the better examples was Mary Bono winning Sonny Bono's seat after he died.

[keithy_19]

why did palin reportedly take down her graphic of crosshairs over the 20 democratic reps? did she "jump the gun"?

I don't like Palin, but saying that because she had an image of democratic reps in crosshairs it was encouraging people to shoot them is a bit out there. It's a symbol. It doesn't have to be a call for violence.

[underdog]

I don't like Palin, but saying that because she had an image of democratic reps in crosshairs it was encouraging people to shoot them is a bit out there. It's a symbol. It doesn't have to be a call for violence.

Well, she apparently thought it was something because she pulled it down.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

The vast majority of the people who hate Palin don't have guns.

Whatever weapon of choice isnt the case. Remember these words?


http://www.nydailynews.com/gossip/2008/09/19/2008-09-19_sandra_bernhard_issues_gang_rape_warning-2.html

I am very critical of progressives and weak kneed republicans. I admit that but I choose my words wisely. I cant stand the policies of Pelosi, Schumer et al. but I dont want anything to happen to them or their families

[Dudeman]

I don't like Palin, but saying that because she had an image of democratic reps in crosshairs it was encouraging people to shoot them is a bit out there. It's a symbol. It doesn't have to be a call for violence.

That's a bit naive. And how do you explain these comments by Palin's friends:


During the 2010 midterm elections, Republican senate nominee Sharron Angle of Utah said that "if this Congress keeps going the way it is, people are really looking toward those Second Amendment remedies." "I'll tell you the first thing we need to do is take Harry Reid out."

In March 2009, Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-Minn) said she wanted the residents of her state "armed and dangerous" over President Obama's plan to reduce global warming through cap and trade legislation.

[epo]

I don't like Palin, but saying that because she had an image of democratic reps in crosshairs it was encouraging people to shoot them is a bit out there. It's a symbol. It doesn't have to be a call for violence.

It is referenced because it is the epitome of Palin's pattern of lowbrow and completely irresponsible rhetoric that is meant to appeal to the lowest common denominator.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I really hope I am wrong but I can see events like this from now on there will be security checks pat downs etc. Unfortunately we now live in a society when something tragic like this happens extreme security measures will be set up going forward. Its the 9/11 changed everything mentality

[disneyspy]

Whatever weapon of choice isnt the case. Remember these words?


http://www.nydailynews.com/gossip/2008/09/19/2008-09-19_sandra_bernhard_issues_gang_rape_warning-2.html

I am very critical of progressives and weak kneed republicans. I admit that but I choose my words wisely. I cant stand the policies of Pelosi, Schumer et al. but I dont want anything to happen to them or their families

way to make it about you,tell him matty

[underdog]

Whatever weapon of choice isnt the case. Remember these words?


http://www.nydailynews.com/gossip/2008/09/19/2008-09-19_sandra_bernhard_issues_gang_rape_warning-2.html

I am very critical of progressives and weak kneed republicans. I admit that but I choose my words wisely. I cant stand the policies of Pelosi, Schumer et al. but I dont want anything to happen to them or their families

No black people know who Sandra Bernhard is.

[foodcourtdruide]

Im not denying that the right has its fringe. Im saying that it's on both sides. Beck and Alex Jones have a bigger platform. There are a lot of left wing revolutionaries too but they don't have their own tv and radio shows

It's absolutely laughable that you're comparing the popularity of beck and Alex Jones.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

No black people know who Sandra Bernhard is.

Cant argue with that

[keithy_19]

Well, she apparently thought it was something because she pulled it down.

I don't think it was smart of her to put up something like that in the first place. She had to know (or maybe not...) that it doesn't look good. Especially considering how people who dislike her paint her out to be a nut. So it was very stupid of her.

I don't think Palin wants people to be killed. I don't. So in light of what happened maybe she realized how the ad she was running could be seen as an actual threat by violence.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

There goes the stereotype that he was a radical Christian. They just said that at an Army recruiting station he was given a bible and was angry over that.


Sounds like this guy is like the IRS Building crash Pilot

[Snacks]

I don't like Palin, but saying that because she had an image of democratic reps in crosshairs it was encouraging people to shoot them is a bit out there. It's a symbol. It doesn't have to be a call for violence.

everything Palin, Beck and Rush have said is subliminal messages of killing or violence to get their way. in some cases they have said the words but most of the time their stupid followers listen to them and take what they say as serious as they could.

Im usually the type of person who says you can blame others for someones actions but lately the hate filled, violence spewing right needs to take the blame because they have wanted this fight. Now maybe the left can start to stand up and not be pussies. You dont need guns to be tough!

[Dudeman]

I really hope I am wrong but I can see events like this from now on there will be security checks pat downs etc. Unfortunately we now live in a society when something tragic like this happens extreme security measures will be set up going forward. Its the 9/11 changed everything mentality

Should the mentally ill have the right to buy a gun?

[keithy_19]

everything Palin, Beck and Rush have said is subliminal messages of killing or violence to get their way. in some cases they have said the words but most of the time their stupid followers listen to them and take what they say as serious as they could.

Im usually the type of person who says you can blame others for someones actions but lately the hate filled, violence spewing right needs to take the blame because they have wanted this fight. Now maybe the left can start to stand up and not be pussies. You dont need guns to be tough!

When has Beck spewed violence?

[keithy_19]

Should the mentally ill have the right to buy a gun?

No.

[Dudeman]

No.

(the question was for WF)

[Snacks]

When has Beck spewed violence?

every time he speaks he spews nonsense, hate and violent tones. I cant think of any specific right now but if i decide to look up some quotes i will post them for you.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

(the question was for WF)

What Keithy said.


However does one tragic event call for draconian measures across the board? Excessive security etc ?

[weekapaugjz]

However does one tragic event call for draconian measures across the board? Excessive security etc ?

if this would have been an illegal immigrant who did this you'd be having a shit fit about having boarder security enhanced in a draconian fashion.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

if this would have been an illegal immigrant who did this you'd be having a shit fit about having boarder security enhanced in a draconian fashion.

Illegal aliens are committing crimes like Rape, DWI molestation on a regular basis. What an awful comparison

[Ritalin]

What Keithy said.


However does one tragic event call for draconian measures across the board? Excessive security etc ?

That's not what's going to happen, WF. What will happen is you'll see politicians use this as an excuse to surround themselves with more taxpayer funded security detail. Does this shooting mean that the...say out of thin air... Mayor of Pittsburgh needs a bigger security detail? No but that's what you'll see.

[keithy_19]

(the question was for WF)

I know, but I felt like answering.

[StanUpshaw]

Should the mentally ill have the right to buy a gun?

Define mentally ill.

[StanUpshaw]

Ewwwwww.

Never mind, this is still gross.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

That's not what's going to happen, WF. What will happen is you'll see politicians use this as an excuse to surround themselves with more taxpayer funded security detail. Does this shooting mean that the...say out of thin air... Mayor of Pittsburgh needs a bigger security detail? No but that's what you'll see.

I wouldn't be surprised if it did. Politicians have been vulnerable to events like this since the beginning of time, Its going to happen again, but do we need to have a mentality that we need some form of excessive security so "THESE THINGS WILL NEVER HAPPEN AGAIN?"

[underdog]

Illegal aliens are committing crimes like Rape, DWI molestation on a regular basis. What an awful comparison

White people are, too.

[Dudeman]

What Keithy said.


However does one tragic event call for draconian measures across the board? Excessive security etc ?

Wait, but you're a strict constitutional guy. If it isn't something in the constitution, the congress doesn't have the right to do it, right? This is how you explained the gun laws on 01-29-2010:

Whats there to explain about the 2nd ammendment. What part of KEEP and bear arms needs explaining in detail.


Gun laws. 2nd Ammendment.


Is it possible that the world is more complex than your simplified sloan view of things?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Wait, but you're a strict constitutional guy. If it isn't something in the constitution, the congress doesn't have theright to do it, right? This is how you explained the gun laws:





Is it possible that the world is more complex than your simplified sloan view of things?

I don't want to live in an overbearing police state. In our society, unfortunately tragic events like these happen. Do we need politicians giving speeches from behind bulletproof glass?


JFK was shot in an open aired car, This did not prevent future presidents from walking Pennsylvania ave on inaugaration day.

[Dudeman]

I don't want to live in an overbearing police state. In our society, unfortunately tragic events like these happen. Do we need politicians giving speeches from behindbulletproof glass?


JFK was shot in an open aired car, This did not prevent future presidents from walking Pennsylvania ave on inaugaration day.

That has absolutely nothing to do with what I wrote.

How do you reconcile your point of view that "Whats there to explain about the 2nd ammendment. What part of KEEP and bear arms needs explaining in detail" with the mentally ill's right to own a gun???

[Snacks]

Illegal aliens are committing crimes like Rape, DWI molestation on a regular basis. What an awful comparison

this is murder and public fear just as bad if not worse!

[Dudeman]

Define mentally ill.

http://www.addictmedicine.com/images/DSM_IV_2.jpg

[WRESTLINGFAN]

That has absolutely nothing to do with what I wrote.

How do you reconcile your point of view that "Whats there to explain about the 2nd ammendment. What part of KEEP and bear arms needs explaining in detail" with the mentally ill's right to own a gun???

Each state has it's own laws. Some are more draconian than others. Looking back on what I said earlier this year, I did do some reading on the incorporation clause and how the Heller case might actual be more damaging to the states.

[underdog]

Sarah Palin just deleted this tweet :

http://i.imgur.com/mGMts.png

[disneyspy]

hey undie,LET THE PUPPIES BREATHE is up at BMT

[underdog]

hey undie,LET THE PUPPIES BREATHE is up at BMT

Oooooh shit. Thanks!

[CaptainBlowhole]

The shooters youtube page and uploads are odd. LINK (http://www.youtube.com/user/Classitup10#p/u/2/PnNx0WThoF0)

[epo]

Sarah Palin just deleted this tweet :

http://i.imgur.com/mGMts.png

The targets and the tweets both got cleaned. It's like somebody figured out the trouble on the horizon...

[underdog]

The targets and the tweets both got cleaned. It's like somebody figured out the trouble on the horizon...

The good news for her is that when these things resurface, she can just tell her followers that they were doctored by the liberal media and they'll believe her.

[underdog]

The good news for her is that when these things resurface, she can just tell her followers that they were doctored by the liberal media and they'll believe her.

Or they won't realize or see how there is anything wrong with what she was saying/doing.

[epo]

The good news for her is that when these things resurface, she can just tell her followers that they were doctored by the liberal media and they'll believe her.

They actually got a ton of exposure today. It'll be interesting to see how they get used against her in the GOP primary if/when she's dumb enough to run for POTUS.

[sailor]

http://www.addictmedicine.com/images/DSM_IV_2.jpg

bulimics (http://psychcentral.com/disorders/) can't buy guns?

[Zorro]

It is referenced because it is the epitome of Palin's pattern of lowbrow and completely irresponsible rhetoric that is meant to appeal to the lowest common denominator.

thank god her opponents are highbrows appealing to the best instincts of their constituency.

...on a different matter the sheriff of Pima County thinks Arizona is ground zero for bigotry and hate.

[Zorro]

Is it they don't know the other guy's ID or are they just not releasing it?

[sailor]

Is it they don't know the other guy's ID or are they just not releasing it?

epo posted his name earlier.

[HBox]

epo posted his name earlier.

I think Zorro was referring to second gunman's ID.

[sailor]

I think Zorro was referring to second gunman's ID.

didn't hear about that. i heard there was a rumored partner, but thought it was a driver.

[epo]

Illegal aliens are committing crimes like Rape, DWI molestation on a regular basis. What an awful comparison

Oh look, WF talking about immigration!

What a goddamned surprise.

[sailor]

Oh look, WF talking about immigration!

What a goddamned surprise.

weeka started it.

[HBox]

Oh look, WF talking about immigration!

What a goddamned surprise.

Name me one legal immigrant who has done any of those things you wisenheimer!

[Zorro]

I think Zorro was referring to second gunman's ID.

Yup, second guy...seems odd that after 5-6 dead they wouldn't release more info.

as I'm watching press conference I am getting the feeling that they (Arizona Police) may have dropped a ball. Apparently this guy Loughner was a person of interest in other stuff...and was denied entry into the Army.

more importantly the Sheriff again said "Vitriol has its consequences"

lastly I am reminded of the McVeigh bombing...not the majority opinion, but I believe it began the resurrection of Clinton. The GOP has already postponed the health care vote...

...and apparently Loughner posted his goodbye note o myspace which probably explains why no one saw it...

[Zorro]

Define mentally ill.

White men posting on message boards?

[sailor]

...and apparently Loughner posted his goodbye note o myspace which probably explains why no one saw it...

ha!

[jauble]

Underdog is so left he makes Epo look straight.

[underdog]

Underdog is so left he makes Epo look straight.

Me? Really?

I'm currently arguing with someone on facebook about why stricter gun control laws are useless and probably harmful to actual responsible gun owners.

I just think Sarah Palin and everyone who follows her are fucking retarded.

[jauble]

Me? Really?

I'm currently arguing with someone on facebook about why stricter gun control laws are useless and probably harmful to actual responsible gun owners.

I just think Sarah Palin and everyone who follows her are fucking retarded.

Lets leave poor little Trig out of this.

[underdog]

Lets leave poor little Trig out of this.

You just hate me because I'm a Patriots fan.

[underdog]

Lets leave poor little Trig out of this.

And I think Trig is the smart one of that family.

[jauble]

You just hate me because I'm a Patriots fan.

No there was one thing, I read the whole thread at once that made me a bit insane, for the record I hate the bitch.

[underdog]

No there was one thing, I read the whole thread at once that made me a bit insane, for the record I hate the bitch.

What did I post? I've been drinking and forgot.

[jauble]

What did I post? I've been drinking and forgot.

Well shit maybe I was combining a few posts and just blamed you.

(filthy pats fan)

[epo]

The 9 year old girl who was killed was born on 9/11/2001.

[jauble]

The 9 year old girl who was killed was born on 9/11/2001.

Quanspiracy?

Really sucks though.

[underdog]

The 9 year old girl who was killed was born on 9/11/2001.

Really?

[epo]

Really?

Yup. Unless Luke Russert is lying.

[epo]

The 9 year old girl who was killed was born on 9/11/2001.

She was featured in a book called "Faces of Hope: Babies Born on 9/11".

[Zorro]

Yup. Unless Luke Russert is lying.

He's still around?

[epo]

He's still around?

At age 25, he'll likely be reporting for the next 40 years.

[Zorro]

At age 25, he'll likely be reporting for the next 40 years.

I've never actually seen him report. Last I'd heard of him was in a newspaper article in which anonymous NBC newspeople were expressing anger that he was on the air. After the article appeared I kinda sorta thought they had sent him somewhere to learn the craft. Did not know he was on the air.

[Tenbatsuzen]

I've never actually seen him report. Last I'd heard of him was in a newspaper article in which anonymous NBC newspeople were expressing anger that he was on the air. After the article appeared I kinda sorta thought they had sent him somewhere to learn the craft. Did not know he was on the air.

Is he still on XM with Carville?

[epo]

I've never actually seen him report. Last I'd heard of him was in a newspaper article in which anonymous NBC newspeople were expressing anger that he was on the air. After the article appeared I kinda sorta thought they had sent him somewhere to learn the craft. Did not know he was on the air.

He's one of their main reporters from the Hill and actually did an excellent job for MSNBC today & was good on Twitter.

Is he still on XM with Carville?

I believe he is.

[epo]

And of course, the Westboro Baptist Church members will be attendance for the funerals (http://www.godhatesfags.com/fliers/20110108_AZ-Shooter-Connecting-the-Dots.pdf).

[Zorro]

And of course, the Westboro Baptist Church members will be attendance for the funerals (http://www.godhatesfags.com/fliers/20110108_AZ-Shooter-Connecting-the-Dots.pdf).

Do these clowns still have their tax exempt status?

[epo]

Do these clowns still have their tax exempt status?

Unfortunately I wonder why any church has that exemption.

[spoon]

Why is our media so fucking retarded? What was the point of reporting she was dead before they knew for sure she was? I'm sure the congresswoman has friends/family that are relying on the media for information.

I thought the same thing. Everyone now cares more about being first versus accurate.

[hanso]

Wow, you're dumb. The person who needed the organ transplant had their coverage lapse. As Giffords is a member of Congress, I assure you, there is no such problem there.

The?
It's over a hundred. To quote you Wow, you're dumb.

[Tenbatsuzen]

At age 25, he'll likely be reporting for the next 40 years.

Or 33, give or take.

[Tenbatsuzen]

The?
It's over a hundred. To quote you Wow, you're dumb.

No, two have died. But there are 98 people who are living who are not on the list because they have no coverage and Arizona is broke.

[hanso]

What transplants are not covered? Do you know? Do you know why? Do you know how decisions about who gets a transplant are made? Did you know that many of the other mandates of the new federal health care legislation draws money away from transplants? Do you know that 100% of people that receive a liver because of Hepatitis C will have that new liver destroyed by the same disease? Do you know how many people get turned down for transplants when funding is not an issue?

Seems to me she did it to thumb her nose at "Obamacare". Same as she ignored a federal mandate over immigration. I would expect no less from the tea party.

[hanso]

Arizona hospital let someone who had no insurance get denied a transplant who had Hep C.

Hanso was drawing a corollary between that incident and this one.

Not at all. I was drawing on the atmosphere that is AZ. politics. And that crazy bitch Jan Brewer.

[hanso]

Once again, I would like to remind everyone that Beck has said that he wants his viewers to act out in violence. He has never said anything about being peaceful.

Then why do you still watch it?

[spoon]

most of these guns arent american. Glocks are from Austria. The majority of illegal guns in the US are not produced in the US so it wouldnt matter.

But the US is a HUGE market for them.

[spoon]

yeah, because you just made it about yourself

listen to the master

Fuck you both from making me laugh in this thread. Dspy twice already as I catch up on it with the affair speculation post. WTF is going on, the shooting, then tbats and dspy make me laugh! Oh no, this tied to the birds and fish means the world might really be ending!

AHHHH!

[spoon]

Alex Jones isn't the left's answer to Beck.

Beck is a mainstream person on a major cable news network. Stop trying to compare the two. There is no one on the left close to Palin/Beck trying to incite people of the left against the right.

Alex Jones is his comparison to Beck!? For fuck's sake man, that's weak as hell. I'm pretty sure Alex is OUT THERE all on his own.

[spoon]

A special election would take place only if she was physically unable to return to office, and resigns her seat, or if she dies. On the other hand, spouses of Members of Congress have been known to fill the seats in such cases. One of the better examples was Mary Bono winning Sonny Bono's seat after he died.

I never understood the spouse being able to take over. It just doesn't seem to make any sense to me virtually willing over your job, or worse since this time it isn't even proven they'd give that to their spouse as a will would legally indicate.

[PapaBear]

I never understood the spouse being able to take over. It just doesn't seem to make any sense to me virtually willing over your job, or worse since this time it isn't even proven they'd give that to their spouse as a will would legally indicate.
I wonder if that's a Congressional rule, or a state rule. I'd bet it's probably a state rule.

[spoon]

if this would have been an illegal immigrant who did this you'd be having a shit fit about having boarder security enhanced in a draconian fashion.

Sure he would.

Illegal aliens are committing crimes like Rape, DWI molestation on a regular basis. What an awful comparison

You mean just like the rest of the population? Yes it's an awfully good point he made.

[spoon]

http://www.addictmedicine.com/images/DSM_IV_2.jpg

They still haven't updated that in full!?

[spoon]

Unfortunately I wonder why any church has that exemption.

Agreed

[hanso]

Alex Jones is his comparison to Beck!? For fuck's sake man, that's weak as hell. I'm pretty sure Alex is OUT THERE all on his own.

If it weren't for Jesse Ventura he would have no exposure. And even that's not saying much.


Quote:
Originally Posted by A.J. View Post
A special election would take place only if she was physically unable to return to office, and resigns her seat, or if she dies. On the other hand, spouses of Members of Congress have been known to fill the seats in such cases. One of the better examples was Mary Bono winning Sonny Bono's seat after he died.

I seem to remember when Bush was in office. There was only one Dem. member of congress over the right. And his seat was lost when he fell ill. (heart trouble)

[CaptainBlowhole]

In all his uploads, his pattern of words and thoughts are off kilter. He is clearly deranged. It looks like they are trying to associate him with the Tea Party somehow in the media, but it just seems he is a nut and his expressed thoughts do not coincide with any of the ideology of the Tea Party that I have seen.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

it's nauseating to see Olbermann trying to politicize such an incident so quickly, while also trying to absolve himself of what he so regularly accuses others of doing.

[KnoxHarrington]

it's nauseating to see Olbermann trying to politicize such an incident so quickly, while also trying to absolve himself of what he so regularly accuses others of doing.

This shit won't fly anymore. Please show me examples of Olbermann using rhetoric as loaded with violent imagery as Palin has used.

The "Both sides are bad!" argument is old and busted.

[Melk]

it's nauseating to see Olbermann trying to politicize such an incident so quickly, while also trying to absolve himself of what he so regularly accuses others of doing.
I agree. I don't understand why the people off the news media, bloggers, and blog commenters are crafting a motivation for this incident without enough.

I also wonder why the news media is avoiding the term, "assassination" or "assassination attempt," when describing the incident. But, I have only had a chance to read some web sites and news sites since the incident.

[epo]

This shit won't fly anymore. Please show me examples of Olbermann using rhetoric as loaded with violent imagery as Palin has used.

The "Both sides are bad!" argument is old and busted.

The days of the false equivalency are over.

[Ogre]

it's nauseating to see Olbermann trying to politicize such an incident so quickly :nono:, while also trying to absolve himself of what he so regularly accuses others of doing.

This is just the beginning of what will be a lenghty discussion filled with accusations, denials, politicization and attempted legislation as a result of this tragedy.

It is a sad day in America that an elected official cannot safely meet with thier constituents in a public setting.

Let the co-opting of a Tragedy begin.

This asshole who did this is/was a coward.

[hanso]

Just saw the Palin crosshair deal and the congresswomans response of it on CBS News Sunday Morning.

[Ogre]

Just saw the Palin crosshair deal and the congresswomans response of it on CBS News Sunday Morning.

That gimmick is the stupidity that will be the end of her political life.

[KnoxHarrington]

That gimmick is the stupidity that will be the end of her political life.

It's both unfair and fitting that her political career will probably be ended by something she really had no responsibility for, since it's more and more obvious the guy who did this was just pretty much a nutbar.

But you spew enough vile shit out there, some of it will eventually come back on you.

[hanso]

it's nauseating to see Olbermann trying to politicize such an incident so quickly, while also trying to absolve himself of what he so regularly accuses others of doing.

And what would that be? He mostly points out what the right is up too. About the only thing he drums up are free health clinics.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

This shit won't fly anymore. Please show me examples of Olbermann using rhetoric as loaded with violent imagery as Palin has used.

The "Both sides are bad!" argument is old and busted.

There aren't nuts on both sides?

Without all his facts he blames Limbaugh Beck et al. He doesnt realize that this guy is a nut who rambles all over the place from wanting gold to back up currency to being anti zionist and being an atheist. Sure he had meinkampf but one of his books on his list was the communist manifesto.

Typical rhetoric by Olbermann.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

And what would that be? He mostly points out what the right is up too. About the only thing he drums up are free health clinics.

And he says nothing what the left is up to. The man is a fucking coward. He will not have anyone on his show who disagrees with him. At least Maddow/Schultz/Matthews do from time to time.

[Zorro]

The days of the false equivalency are over.

Seriously? Let's be honest its not. It can't be because blaming Sara Palin for this or Keith for that is an essential part of todays Americana. We love to spend time and talk about shit that does nothing to solve the real issues and problems facing the country. Olberman Vs O'Reilly will continue ad infinitum the great distraction will move forward as the wheels fall off the country.

[HBox]

At this moment it doesn't seem like this was specifically politically motivated. But does that mean we have to wait until it definitively happens? There is no equivalency here. You have one party who used the most extreme rhetoric possible just to win an election. Nothing was out of bounds. Obama and Congress are nazis, communists, marxists, whatever. They are destroying the country, taking away your freedom and sending your grandmother to die. This shit is coming from everywhere from the deepest extremes where you are always going to hear this shit to sitting Congressman and Senators to the most popular radio shows to the most popular cable new network. And then you sprinkle in some vague suggestions of violence. Sure, there is freedom of speech and I'm not here suggesting anyone step in and forcibly stop them. But what good place could this possibly lead to?

You can't blame any one person for all this. There's way too many people with their hand in this. I just hope this makes these people reconsider their words the next time they want to say someone they disagree with is destroying this country, or worse.

But I have no confidence that will happen. I'm sure the people involved (sans Congressmen and women, hopefully) will just dig deeper.

[KnoxHarrington]

There aren't nuts on both sides?

Without all his facts he blames Limbaugh Beck et al. He doesnt realize that this guy is a nut who rambles all over the place from wanting gold to back up currency to being anti zionist and being an atheist. Sure he had meinkampf but one of his books on his list was the communist manifesto.

Typical rhetoric by Olbermann.

This isn't about whether or not Olbermann is full of shit. He is. I don't watch his awful show.

I wanted you to find me an example of Olbermann using rhetoric as violent as Sarah Palin's "reload" comment, or her map with gunsights on it.

[Dudeman]

They still haven't updated that in full!?

They've been working on the DSM V for a while now. Last I heard, it may come out in 2 years.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

This isn't about whether or not Olbermann is full of shit. He is. I don't watch his awful show.

I wanted you to find me an example of Olbermann using rhetoric as violent as Sarah Palin's "reload" comment, or her map with gunsights on it.

There is none from him. Thats your answer. However When he goes on TV and using a stereotype of a white teabagger who listens to talk radio without all his facts he needs to be called out on that.


If something happens to Palin, I am not going to say its Olbermanns fault because he goes on TV and has a segment on her almost every night.


You know damn well that all the left wing blogs will have their comments of Joy if something does happen to Palin.

[hanso]

No, two have died. But there are 98 people who are living who are not on the list because they have no coverage and Arizona is broke.

I'm not going to get into this with you. If you feel that this is the right thing to do. While millions are being spent on things like studies of why squirrels bite each others nuts off. Fine, lean that way, vote that way.

[HBox]

More sadness. (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=6004887)

An uncle of the 9-year-old girl told the Arizona Republic that a neighbor was going to the event and invited her along because she had just been elected to the student council and was interested in government.

[hanso]

And he says nothing what the left is up to. The man is a fucking coward. He will not have anyone on his show who disagrees with him. At least Maddow/Schultz/Matthews do from time to time.

He does point out what the left has done. How the right blocks or lies about it. He does have the goofy looking black guy with the glasses on. Who is from the right to give his own POV quite a bit. His name escapes me.

And he does not talk on Palin every night. He only does it when those on the right have some kind of gaf. Which is quite often.

[epo]

Seriously? Let's be honest its not. It can't be because blaming Sara Palin for this or Keith for that is an essential part of todays Americana. We love to spend time and talk about shit that does nothing to solve the real issues and problems facing the country. Olberman Vs O'Reilly will continue ad infinitum the great distraction will move forward as the wheels fall off the country.

Maybe not, but the tolerance for it is completely gone now for many of us. This whole "Fair & Balanced" angle of many reporters is bullshit and needs to stop.

When Glenn Beck or Sarah Palin or Keith Olbermann or who the fuck ever acts crazy, lets stop pretending that there is automatically some equivalent force balancing their shit out.

[sailor]

no one died, but Allee Bautsch (jindal's head fund-raiser, i believe) and her boyfriend were attacked last april for political reasons (allegedly it was for wearing palin pins), but there is no mention of her name when i searched cnn and msnbc's sites. her leg was broken and the guy's jaw and nose were broken. if this was done by a right-wing nutjob, it would be a bigger story (or a story at all). just saying. (i also never heard of her till i was doing some research today to show there are kooks on both sides and media on both sides are biased.)

[HBox]

no one died, but Allee Bautsch (jindal's head fund-raiser, i believe) and her boyfriend were attacked last april for political reasons (allegedly it was for wearing palin pins), but there is no mention of her name when i searched cnn and msnbc's sites. her leg was broken and the guy's jaw and nose were broken. if this was done by a right-wing nutjob, it would be a bigger story (or a story at all). just saying. (i also never heard of her till i was doing some research today to show there are kooks on both sides and media on both sides are biased.)

It wasn't a story because it wasn't politically motivated. (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/04/16/new-orleans-cops-search-assailants-attacked-jindals-campaign-aide/)

[Barnaby Jones]

no one died, but Allee Bautsch (jindal's head fund-raiser, i believe) and her boyfriend were attacked last april for political reasons (allegedly it was for wearing palin pins), but there is no mention of her name when i searched cnn and msnbc's sites. her leg was broken and the guy's jaw and nose were broken. if this was done by a right-wing nutjob, it would be a bigger story (or a story at all). just saying. (i also never heard of her till i was doing some research today to show there are kooks on both sides and media on both sides are biased.)

Nice spin! What you forget to mention is that this story is only mentioned once on FoxNews. com!

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/04/16/new-orleans-cops-search-assailants-attacked-jindals-campaign-aide/

So you really think that if there was actually anything to the idea that this was a politically motivated attack that Fox would have only buried it on a single mention on their web site in a story where the focus is on how it appeared to just be a vicious robbery??? Hmmmmmm!!! Nice try, sailor!!!!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Even the Pima county sheriff had his knee jerk reaction blaming Talk Radio and Fox news. He's exploiting the tragedy to blame one group without all his facts. Truly despicable.


Yes there is political discourse, this is a tragedy but there has always been discourse. There were millions of angry voters about Obamacare, Bailouts, deficits etc, but the electorate took their anger to the ballot box 2 months ago. There was a smooth transition of power a couple of days ago. Yes there are nutjobs who want to overthrow the government. No sane person wants another civil war or coup d'etat . But I dont think we are becoming Burma.

There will be tragic events like these, unfortunately but we have gone thru many events like these and have made it these past 2 centuries.

[HBox]

Even the Pima county sheriff had his knee jerk reaction blaming Talk Radio and Fox news. He's exploiting the tragedy to blame one group without all his facts. Truly despicable.

Yes, of everything that happened yesterday what the sheriff said was truly despicable. As always you cut through meaningless, head-shooting chaff and get straight to the heart of the issue.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Yes, of everything that happened yesterday what the sheriff said was truly despicable. As always you cut through meaningless, head-shooting chaff and get straight to the heart of the issue.

What the fuck are you talking about? He didnt mention Beck and Fox news by name but that was his message. His words were like people who listen to certain radio hosts and watch popular cable shows.


This is supposed to be a top law enforcement official in the county and he says idiotc things like this.

[HBox]

What the fuck are you talking about? He didnt mention Beck and Fox news by name but that was his message. His words were like people who listen to certain radio hosts and watch popular cable shows.


This is supposed to be a top law enforcement official in the county and he says idiotc things like this.

I agree. There is far too much attention being paid to the violence yesterday and not nearly enough paranoia about what the sheriff said.

Because really, after seeing a dead 9 year old, a dead federal judge and a Congresswoman with a hole in her head he should have kept his concentration on what really matters, the overly sensitive feelings of paranoid right wingers.

[Barnaby Jones]

What the fuck are you talking about? He didnt mention Beck and Fox news by name but that was his message. His words were like people who listen to certain radio hosts and watch popular cable shows.


This is supposed to be a top law enforcement official in the county and he says idiotc things like this.

He should specified and said anyone who has Ron Paul-ian beliefs is the true danger!!! Hee-hee!!! They mentioned Arizona and the gold standard in this loon's beliefs and I was all like, "oh no, the illegals finally broke WF's brain and he snapped!!!"

[Barnaby Jones]

I agree. There is far too much attention being paid to the violence yesterday and not nearly enough paranoia about what the sheriff said.

Because really, after seeing a dead 9 year old, a dead federal judge and a Congresswoman with a hole in her head he should have kept his concentration on what really matters, the overly sensitive feelings of paranoid right wingers.

Hey, let's be reasonable here!!! If the sheriff was saying the same thing about "progressives" and illegal immigrants WF would be first in line screaming about how unfair that would be!!!

[Tenbatsuzen]

I'm not going to get into this with you. If you feel that this is the right thing to do. While millions are being spent on things like studies of why squirrels bite each others nuts off. Fine, lean that way, vote that way.

You were the fucking retard who brought up the transplant issue in the first place trying to instigate. Tell me, WHAT KIND OF ORGAN TRANSPLANT DO YOU NEED FOR A GSW TO THE HEAD?!?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Hey, let's be reasonable here!!! If the sheriff was saying the same thing about "progressives" and illegal immigrants WF would be first in line screaming about how unfair that would be!!!


I would call him out if he didnt have all the facts in that case too

[Tenbatsuzen]

I agree. I don't understand why the people off the news media, bloggers, and blog commenters are crafting a motivation for this incident without enough.

I also wonder why the news media is avoiding the term, "assassination" or "assassination attempt," when describing the incident. But, I have only had a chance to read some web sites and news sites since the incident.

True, why are they avoiding the word assassination? Because the guy is crazy? Hinckley was fucking loony too and they call what happened to Reagan an assassination attempt.

[Zorro]

At this moment it doesn't seem like this was specifically politically motivated. But does that mean we have to wait until it definitively happens? There is no equivalency here. You have one party who used the most extreme rhetoric possible just to win an election. Nothing was out of bounds. Obama and Congress are nazis, communists, marxists, whatever. They are destroying the country, taking away your freedom and sending your grandmother to die. This shit is coming from everywhere from the deepest extremes where you are always going to hear this shit to sitting Congressman and Senators to the most popular radio shows to the most popular cable new network. And then you sprinkle in some vague suggestions of violence. Sure, there is freedom of speech and I'm not here suggesting anyone step in and forcibly stop them. But what good place could this possibly lead to?

You can't blame any one person for all this. There's way too many people with their hand in this. I just hope this makes these people reconsider their words the next time they want to say someone they disagree with is destroying this country, or worse.

But I have no confidence that will happen. I'm sure the people involved (sans Congressmen and women, hopefully) will just dig deeper.


Everyone is acting like this is all new like somehow the eight years under GWB didn't happen. Code Pink calling him a murderer, the left screaming vitriol that the Patriot Act was designed by Dick Cheney to take away your freedoms. Thousand of war protestors with W and Cheney in Hitler mustaches. On Election night I was at an Obama event when a democratic rep in NYC turned to me and said she wished the cancer had gone to McCain's brain and what else could Sara Palin expect but a retarded baby.

Remember how Hillary Clinton had Vince Foster killed and then they were coming to take away your guns and have all the children put in some Orwellian version of a state school.

Vitriol and nastiness have been a part of American politics since day one.

My overarching point is that as long as a comment from Sarah Palin or Barack Obama will generate a scary fundraising appeal and with it millions of dollars this will never end. Because we're not about solving problems we are about getting elected and staying in control.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

He should specified and said anyone who has Ron Paul-ian beliefs is the true danger!!! Hee-hee!!! They mentioned Arizona and the gold standard in this loon's beliefs and I was all like, "oh no, the illegals finally broke WF's brain and he snapped!!!"

He should have gotten his facts straight. You were probably one of the gullible fucks who thought it was an extremist Christian teabagger

[HBox]

True, why are they avoiding the word assassination? Because the guy is crazy? Hinckley was fucking loony too and they call what happened to Reagan an assassination attempt.

I did see it used a couple times yesterday. But it's probably being avoided because right wingers would freak out even more.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I wonder what the conspiracy theorists will say about this. As expected the WBC will be picketing


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/09/westboro-baptist-church-arizona_n_806319.html

[HBox]

Everyone is acting like this is all new like somehow the eight years under GWB didn't happen. Code Pink calling him a murderer, the left screaming vitriol that the Patriot Act was designed by Dick Cheney to take away your freedoms. Thousand of war protestors with W and Cheney in Hitler mustaches. On Election night I was at an Obama event when a democratic rep in NYC turned to me and said she wished the cancer had gone to McCain's brain and what else could Sara Palin expect but a retarded baby.

Remember how Hillary Clinton had Vince Foster killed and then they were coming to take away your guns and have all the children put in some Orwellian version of a state school.

Vitriol and nastiness have been a part of American politics since day one.

So, acting like Captain Renault and being all "shocked" is disingenuous and to make it sound one sided is untruthful.

Did you notice this part:

This shit is coming from everywhere from the deepest extremes where you are always going to hear this shit

The crazy extreme fringe is always going to be the crazy extreme fringe. But it rarely, if ever, came from sitting Congressmen and prominent media figures, and never to the degree of the last year and a half. The only thing that this lazy equivocation does is let people get away with irresponsible rhetoric without consequences. Just like Epo said before, in the future this shit has to stop from everyone. Let us all just make sure that we hold people accountable for what they say.

[hanso]

What does it matter what it's called? She was the target.

[Barnaby Jones]

Everyone is acting like this is all new like somehow the eight years under GWB didn't happen. Code Pink calling him a murderer, the left screaming vitriol that the Patriot Act was designed by Dick Cheney to take away your freedoms. Thousand of war protestors with W and Cheney in Hitler mustaches. On Election night I was at an Obama event when a democratic rep in NYC turned to me and said she wished the cancer had gone to McCain's brain and what else could Sara Palin expect but a retarded baby.

Oh man, always see people on the Right bringing this up and never fails to be so obviously missing the point!!! Yes, there's nutjobs and assholes on both sides...the difference now is that nutjobs and assholes on the Right are being stirred up by mainstream politicians and media personalities!!! Please showed me when you saw the comparable version of that riling up the morons calling Bush a Nazi with similar pandering, and dangerous, rhetoric!!!!

[epo]

I wonder what the conspiracy theorists will say about this. As expected the WBC will be picketing


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/09/westboro-baptist-church-arizona_n_806319.html

We already covered it, but the WBC isn't conspiracy, the WBC are just assholes.

[Barnaby Jones]

He should have gotten his facts straight. You were probably one of the gullible fucks who thought it was an extremist Christian teabagger

Nah, I just thought it was you!!!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Nah, I just thought it was you!!!

Youre a sick bastard

[Barnaby Jones]

Youre a sick bastard

Hey, you're the one that's been setting up an online manifesto of crazy here!!!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Oh man, always see people on the Right bringing this up and never fails to be so obviously missing the point!!! Yes, there's nutjobs and assholes on both sides...the difference now is that nutjobs and assholes on the Right are being stirred up by mainstream politicians and media personalities!!! Please showed me when you saw the comparable version of that riling up the morons calling Bush a Nazi with similar pandering, and dangerous, rhetoric!!!!

Those without sin....


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[WRESTLINGFAN]

Hey, you're the one that's been setting up an online manifesto of crazy here!!!

Youre the crazy one.


Voicing my criticism of progressive politics is far from a manifesto

[epo]

Those without sin....


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Who is Mike Malloy?

[Barnaby Jones]

Those without sin....


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So fucking predictable!!! MIKE MALLOY is your example of a mainstream media personality???? LOLOLOLOLOL!!!:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::laugh ::laugh::laugh:

Let me guess, you're also the type that turns around and laughs about how shitty the ratings are for "progressive" radio, right??? Can't have it both ways, baby!!!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

So fucking predictable!!! MIKE MALLOY is your example of a mainstream media personality???? LOLOLOLOLOL!!!:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::laugh ::laugh::laugh:

Big Eddy isnt mainstream enough you ?


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[Barnaby Jones]

Youre the crazy one.


Voicing my criticism of progressive politics is far from a manifesto

It's cute that you think that!!!

Our of curiosity, why do you keep deluging this place with your manifesto??? It would seem like you'd be much better served by a blog, since posting it here just highlights how out there you are since literally nobody ever agrees with you on your main points, and even when someone talks about how they kind of agree with some logical point you accidentally made you quickly drive them off with your crazy!!! Do you really think anyone agrees with you here, or that you're convincing anyone of anything??? It's a weird masochism you seem to have!!!

[epo]

Big Eddy isnt mainstream enough you ?


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Once again, you are playing the stupid fucking "false equivalency" card.

In that case Ed Schultz was being a douche, and it should be treated as such. Let's stop pretending the world is "Fair & Balanced" just because Rupert Murdoch thinks it should be.

[Barnaby Jones]

Big Eddy isnt mainstream enough you ?


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Nope!!! Keep trying, bubba!!!

And I love how you pull out these single quotes, like it's anything like the very conscious and intentionally themed and repetitive rhetoric that's continually playing on fear, anger, paranoia and violence trying to get people riled up!!! Yeah, one fat blowhard ranting about Cheney that one time is obviously the same thing!!! What's it like in that head of yours???

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Nope!!! Keep trying, bubba!!!

And I love how you pull out these single quotes, like it's anything like the very conscious and intentionally themed and repetitive rhetoric that's continually playing on fear, anger, paranoia and violence trying to get people riled up!!! Yeah, one fat blowhard ranting about Cheney that one time is obviously the same thing!!! What's it like in that head of yours???

This has got to be one of your most idiotic replies ever. If you are comparing me to the shooter, clearly you are the deranged lunatic.


So what if someone did actually try to harm Cheney you think schultz wouldn't be shitting a brick over what he said?

[booster11373]

It's cute that you think that!!!

Our of curiosity, why do you keep deluging this place with your manifesto??? It would seem like you'd be much better served by a blog, since posting it here just highlights how out there you are since literally nobody ever agrees with you on your main points, and even when someone talks about how they kind of agree with some logical point you accidentally made you quickly drive them off with your crazy!!! Do you really think anyone agrees with you here, or that you're convincing anyone of anything??? It's a weird masochism you seem to have!!!

:clap:

[WRESTLINGFAN]

It's cute that you think that!!!

Our of curiosity, why do you keep deluging this place with your manifesto??? It would seem like you'd be much better served by a blog, since posting it here just highlights how out there you are since literally nobody ever agrees with you on your main points, and even when someone talks about how they kind of agree with some logical point you accidentally made you quickly drive them off with your crazy!!! Do you really think anyone agrees with you here, or that you're convincing anyone of anything??? It's a weird masochism you seem to have!!!

Does it bother you that there are people who happen to disagree with the huge majority of people on this thread or do you want everyone to agree with all of your opinions. Whats next do you want to live an all white neighborhood ? Does everyone who live where I live in the Northeast have to be a progressive?

Your juvenile comments mean nothing to me. I dont have to explain my opinions to you.

BTW youre saying NOBODY agrees with any of my points? Take the helmet off you clod


Youre not getting away with trying to be some message board Psychologist, youre just another schlub with a keyboard

[WRESTLINGFAN]

:clap:

You fail at kissing ass

[StanUpshaw]

I find no irony in this thread whatsoever. Nor in this post.

[Zorro]

Oh man, always see people on the Right bringing this up and never fails to be so obviously missing the point!!! Yes, there's nutjobs and assholes on both sides...the difference now is that nutjobs and assholes on the Right are being stirred up by mainstream politicians and media personalities!!! Please showed me when you saw the comparable version of that riling up the morons calling Bush a Nazi with similar pandering, and dangerous, rhetoric!!!!

I'm hardly on the right, but you left out the rest of my comment. Guess it didn't fit with your agenda.

[booster11373]

You fail at kissing ass

You are repetitive and predictable I cant understand why people engage you at all

[Zorro]

Back in 2002 Cass Sunstein published the book Republic.Com. In it he predicted the new media's effect on political discourse. I remember at the time thinking the guy really hit on something when he suggested the biggest effect would be that no longer would you be forced to seek out news nor would you be exposed to differing points of view. What was happening he said was that we were each developing our own versions of The Daily Me. So, instead of having to turn the pages of a newspaper and be introduced to a story we would otherwise not read now we can seek out stories that echo the opinions we already hold.

So, you have Ron Perlman only watching MSNBC or Anthony Cumia getting his news from FOX. Even newspapers like the Times or WSJ are demographically driven to "give you what you want" not challenge long held beliefs.

I'm not sure news was ever fair and balanced. My personal opinion is it had more to do with a homogenous society than actual balancing, but I'm just some dope from Queens. Even if it was it will never be again. It is marketed like soap and like soap it's just another product to consume. Truth apparently is relative.