Georgia passes AZ style bill (a wrestlingfan joint)

[WRESTLINGFAN]

It still needs to clear its house of reps, but the peach state has had it with the 400K illegals crowding its state


http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/dpp/news/immigration/georgia-senate-passes-arizona-style-bill-to-restrict-illegal-immigration-ncx-04122011


The 9th circuit upheld Holders unjust lawsuit against AZ SB1070 so it looks like it will be going to SCOTUS. One positive thing is that the 9th is the most overturned circuit court. Looks like It could be another 5-4 decision

[Dude!]

One positive thing is that the 9th is the most overturned circuit court. Looks like It could be another 5-4 decision

thank god that GW
made two outstanding
appointments...

alito is the best

the two new dykes
are the worst

[WRESTLINGFAN]

thank god that GW
made two outstanding
appointments...

alito is the best

the two new dykes
are the worst

Both will side with Holder especially that fat wise latina women who hates white firefighters

[Dude!]

Both will side with Holder especially that fat wise latina woman who hates men

agreed

[TripleSkeet]

But whos gonna pick all their peaches now?

Oooohhhh.
However, lawmakers eliminated a contentious piece of the bill which would have required businesses to register their workers on a federal program called E-Verify. The program determines if they are eligible to work in the US.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

But whos gonna pick all their peaches now?

Oooohhhh.

People who will work for more than pennies per hour

Georgians ?

http://www.dol.state.ga.us/



Georgia Unemployment Rate: 10.2%


Georgias burden .... close to 2.5 billion dollars


http://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/stories/2010/07/05/daily42.html

[Syd]

But whos gonna pick all their peaches now?

Oooohhhh.

Migrant workers, as they have and always will. They're illegal aliens, but, they're untouchable thanks to corporations protecting their status.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Migrant workers, as they have and always will. They're illegal aliens, but, they're untouchable thanks to corporations protecting their status.


Also the US chamber of commerce

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Mexico needs to be looked at seriously. Since 2006 there have been over 30K murders due to the drug war. Maybe legalize some here. Also the police and government are corrupt and as a result its spilling over to border towns. Maybe Mexico should bring back capital punishment, Its not a good situation when Afghanistan is much safer

[Snoogans]

Mexico needs to be looked at seriously. Since 2006 there have been over 30K murders due to the drug war. Maybe legalize some here. Also the police and government are corrupt and as a result its spilling over to border towns. Maybe Mexico should bring back capital punishment, Its not a good situation when Afghanistan is much safer

you wanna legalize cocaine and heroin in the US because there is drug wars in Mexico? Im gonna go ahead and say that weed is not the reason these cartels have most of the cash they have. So legalizing weed really wont do much to change things down there. If you really wanna bring down the drug cartels in mexico, start with dust bombing all the cocoa plants in Peru, Columbia and other countries in SA

[WRESTLINGFAN]

you wanna legalize cocaine and heroin in the US because there is drug wars in Mexico? Im gonna go ahead and say that weed is not the reason these cartels have most of the cash they have. So legalizing weed really wont do much to change things down there. If you really wanna bring down the drug cartels in mexico, start with dust bombing all the cocoa plants in Peru, Columbia and other countries in SA

They are using drug mules, Especially for weed. There is a huge demand here for that. I think at the very least that should be legalized but thats for another arguement.

Also all those guns going south of the border. Its not from gun shows or shops its our own ATF involved.

As far as the powder, The CIA probably still has a vested interest in SA

[Snoogans]

They are using drug mules, Especially for weed. There is a huge demand here for that. I think at the very least that should be legalized but thats for another arguement.

Also all those guns going south of the border. Its not from gun shows or shops its our own ATF involved.

As far as the powder, The CIA probably still has a vested interest in SA

i agree weed should be legal, however you are sorely mistaken. And this is one thing I truly truly know about. Most of the Mules they use arent for weed. Most of the weed they were bringing in were through those tunnels in Cali and Arizona and most of them were doing that themselves.

Here is a bombshell for all the US "authorities" Somewhere between 65-70% of all weed in the US is grown in , GASP, THE US. And when you get into the higher end weed, its like 85-90% is local and what isnt is usually from Canada or Europe.
85-90% of the money that goes to South American cartels is cocaine. About 60% of mexican money is cocaine but out of the other 40%, about 90% of that is heroin and other opiates. Not weed. We started taking care of the weed shit ourselves


as for your ATF involvement, no. The ATF isnt giving them guns just cause they didnt come from some show. Most of the guns they get through the US are illegal guns the US got through Europe. Surplus guns from fallen countries, and just guns that were legally sold in other countries. Its very rare to find illegal guns made in america in countries other than the US. Most of the US made or born illegal guns end up in the hands of the mafia or gangs and shit in local cities. Mexico is like AK 47s and shit. They might come through us but they dont come from us.

[Contra]

i agree weed should be legal, however you are sorely mistaken. And this is one thing I truly truly know about. Most of the Mules they use arent for weed. Most of the weed they were bringing in were through those tunnels in Cali and Arizona and most of them were doing that themselves.

Here is a bombshell for all the US "authorities" Somewhere between 65-70% of all weed in the US is grown in , GASP, THE US. And when you get into the higher end weed, its like 85-90% is local and what isnt is usually from Canada or Europe.
85-90% of the money that goes to South American cartels is cocaine. About 60% of mexican money is cocaine but out of the other 40%, about 90% of that is heroin and other opiates. Not weed. We started taking care of the weed shit ourselves


as for your ATF involvement, no. The ATF isnt giving them guns just cause they didnt come from some show. Most of the guns they get through the US are illegal guns the US got through Europe. Surplus guns from fallen countries, and just guns that were legally sold in other countries. Its very rare to find illegal guns made in america in countries other than the US. Most of the US made or born illegal guns end up in the hands of the mafia or gangs and shit in local cities. Mexico is like AK 47s and shit. They might come through us but they dont come from us.

FACE!

Thank you for typing all of this so I didn't have to.

[KnoxHarrington]

i agree weed should be legal, however you are sorely mistaken. And this is one thing I truly truly know about. Most of the Mules they use arent for weed. Most of the weed they were bringing in were through those tunnels in Cali and Arizona and most of them were doing that themselves.

Here is a bombshell for all the US "authorities" Somewhere between 65-70% of all weed in the US is grown in , GASP, THE US. And when you get into the higher end weed, its like 85-90% is local and what isnt is usually from Canada or Europe.
85-90% of the money that goes to South American cartels is cocaine. About 60% of mexican money is cocaine but out of the other 40%, about 90% of that is heroin and other opiates. Not weed. We started taking care of the weed shit ourselves


as for your ATF involvement, no. The ATF isnt giving them guns just cause they didnt come from some show. Most of the guns they get through the US are illegal guns the US got through Europe. Surplus guns from fallen countries, and just guns that were legally sold in other countries. Its very rare to find illegal guns made in america in countries other than the US. Most of the US made or born illegal guns end up in the hands of the mafia or gangs and shit in local cities. Mexico is like AK 47s and shit. They might come through us but they dont come from us.

I, for one, will never dispute anything you say about weed.

[A.J.]

i agree weed should be legal, however you are sorely mistaken. And this is one thing I truly truly know about. Most of the Mules they use arent for weed. Most of the weed they were bringing in were through those tunnels in Cali and Arizona and most of them were doing that themselves.

Here is a bombshell for all the US "authorities" Somewhere between 65-70% of all weed in the US is grown in , GASP, THE US. And when you get into the higher end weed, its like 85-90% is local and what isnt is usually from Canada or Europe.
85-90% of the money that goes to South American cartels is cocaine. About 60% of mexican money is cocaine but out of the other 40%, about 90% of that is heroin and other opiates. Not weed. We started taking care of the weed shit ourselves


as for your ATF involvement, no. The ATF isnt giving them guns just cause they didnt come from some show. Most of the guns they get through the US are illegal guns the US got through Europe. Surplus guns from fallen countries, and just guns that were legally sold in other countries. Its very rare to find illegal guns made in america in countries other than the US. Most of the US made or born illegal guns end up in the hands of the mafia or gangs and shit in local cities. Mexico is like AK 47s and shit. They might come through us but they dont come from us.

Snoogans for Weed Czar!

[Snoogans]

yea, now if i only knew how to fix bullpens

[TripleSkeet]

People who will work for more than pennies per hour

Georgians ?

http://www.dol.state.ga.us/



Georgia Unemployment Rate: 10.2%


Georgias burden .... close to 2.5 billion dollars


http://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/stories/2010/07/05/daily42.html

I think you missed the point of my quote. The illegals are going to keep picking their peaches because their employers arent affected by this bill.

At what point are you going to realize you are never going to get Americans to do the menial jobs these people do?

They are either too lazy to do it, or want way to much money. Its a shit job you dont need any kind of education for. They arent going to pay you $10 / hour for that shit.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I think you missed the point of my quote. The illegals are going to keep picking their peaches because their employers arent affected by this bill.

At what point are you going to realize you are never going to get Americans to do the menial jobs these people do?

They are either too lazy to do it, or want way to much money. Its a shit job you dont need any kind of education for. They arent going to pay you $10 / hour for that shit.

Really ?


Different state however.



Damn teabaggers stealing jobs from those poor illegals.

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Y34U07CxVm0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


Im for a guest worker program. After those peaches are harvested, adios until next season.

[SonOfSmeagol]

At what point are you going to realize you are never going to get Americans to do the menial jobs these people do?

They are either too lazy to do it, or want way to much money. Its a shit job you dont need any kind of education for. They arent going to pay you $10 / hour for that shit.

So let's keep those non-Americans down where they belong - workin' for the man?

If they were here legally, then supply and demand would remain in force. If the peaches were worth picking, then a fair price would be paid for picking them, and they would be picked. If not worth it, then they would rot.

Right now a fair price is not being paid, no? Illegal aliens are not the driver, they're a convenient means to the end currently.

[PapaBear]

Migrant workers, as they have and always will. They're illegal aliens, but, they're untouchable thanks to corporations protecting their status.

Real migrant workers aren't illegal aliens. They are given visas to work during the picking season, then sent home. I live in apple country. For as long as I've been here (42 years), Jamaicans, Haitians, and Mexicans have arrived in the fall legally, live in camps during the harvest, then are sent home when the harvest is over.

[TripleSkeet]

So let's keep those non-Americans down where they belong - workin' for the man?

If they were here legally, then supply and demand would remain in force. If the peaches were worth picking, then a fair price would be paid for picking them, and they would be picked. If not worth it, then they would rot.

Right now a fair price is not being paid, no? Illegal aliens are not the driver, they're a convenient means to the end currently.

Workin for the man??? How about willing to do the work most americans want TOO MUCH money to do. A fair price and a price which americans would do that same work are 2 different things.

Again, its unskilled labor. People that dont speak english and with an education of a 5th grader can do the work. They shouldnt get more then minimum wage and I dont know too many Americans willing to bust their ass like that for minimum wage.

[SonOfSmeagol]

Workin for the man??? How about willing to do the work most americans want TOO MUCH money to do. A fair price and a price which americans would do that same work are 2 different things.

Again, its unskilled labor. People that dont speak english and with an education of a 5th grader can do the work. They shouldnt get more then minimum wage and I dont know too many Americans willing to bust their ass like that for minimum wage.

I can't figure out your point: are you defending this status quo, or just saying we should accept it as inevitable?

In fact they mostly make much less than minimum wage, work long long hours without OT, are exposed to pesticides and other lousy work conditions, are paid under the table so they and their employers are paying nothing into Soc Sec and Medicare, unemployment is unavailable to them when needed, and they live in abject poverty.

So they give that, and you get cheap food. Again, if the work is worth it to the market then it will get done at a fair price. The reason that they and other unskilled worker are paid so little is that they are here illegally, so the system exploits them. If they were here legally then nobody would be available for the system to exploit, wages would be higher becsause they would be driven by the real labor market, and then Americans just may work those jobs.

[KnoxHarrington]

I can't figure out your point: are you defending this status quo, or just saying we should accept it as inevitable?

In fact they mostly make much less than minimum wage, work long long hours without OT, are exposed to pesticides and other lousy work conditions, are paid under the table so they and their employers are paying nothing into Soc Sec and Medicare, unemployment is unavailable to them when needed, and they live in abject poverty.

So they give that, and you get cheap food. Again, if the work is worth it to the market then it will get done at a fair price. The reason that they and other unskilled worker are paid so little is that they are here illegally, so the system exploits them. If they were here legally then nobody would be available for the system to exploit, wages would be higher becsause they would be driven by the real labor market, and then Americans just may work those jobs.

Yeah. People do not hire illegal immigrants to give them $15/hr and full bennies, including 401(k). They hire them to work them like dogs for $5/hr, and a threat to call "La Migra" on them if they complain.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Farmwork requires very low skills. Thats why a guest worker plan is the best way to go. Its a minimum wage job and when the harvest is over they leave until the next season. The government isnt getting ripped off for tax purposes, the corporations have accountability. If for instance someone gets injured on the job because there are shady working conditions, then that specific corporation can get fines levied.

To Knox's point if an illegal alien injures himself hes not going to risk outing himself and face possible deportation.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

It is law


http://articles.cnn.com/2011-04-15/politics/georgia.legislature_1_illegal-immigrants-immigration-status-sign-law?_s=PM:POLITICS

[foodcourtdruide]

Farmwork requires very low skills. Thats why a guest worker plan is the best way to go. Its a minimum wage job and when the harvest is over they leave until the next season. The government isnt getting ripped off for tax purposes, the corporations have accountability. If for instance someone gets injured on the job because there are shady working conditions, then that specific corporation can get fines levied.

To Knox's point if an illegal alien injures himself hes not going to risk outing himself and face possible deportation.

That seems like it would require a huge amount of administrative oversight.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

ATF has more 'splainin to do


http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31727_162-20053961-10391695.html


"Damning, newly-obtained emails show that a key gun shop owner made explicit concerns in writing last year in the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms’ “gunwalking” scandal.

Starting in late 2009, ATF allegedly directed an undetermined number of Phoenix-area gun shop owners to go ahead with sales of thousands of assault rifles and other weapons to suspicious buyers. Insiders claim ATF knew the buyers were connected to Mexico’s drug cartels, but let the guns “walk” onto the street anyway in a misguided attempt to obtain intelligence. ATF and the Justice Department have denied that.

Investigators from Sen. Charles Grassley (R-Iowa) obtained the emails this week."


Excerpts from Chuck Grassleys letter to DoJ

On June 17, 2010, the gun dealer wrote to the ATF to again express concerns after seeing a report
on Fox News about firearms and the border:

The segment, if the information was correct, is disturbing to me. When
you, [the Assistant U.S. Attorney], and I met on May 13th, I shared my
concerns with you guys that I wanted to make sure that none of the
firearms that were sold per our conversation with you and various ATF
agents could or would ever end up south of the border or in the hands of
the bad guys. … I want to help ATF with its investigation but not at the risk
of agents‟ safety because I have some very close friends that are U.S.
Border Patrol agents in southern AZ[.]5

Incredibly, the FFL sent this email six months before guns from the same ATF operation were found at the scene of Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry‟s murder. So, not only were
the ATF agents who later blew the whistle predicting that this operation would end in tragedy, so were the gun dealers—even as ATF urged them to make the sales. Furthermore, according to the FFL, there were “one or two” occasions on which his employees actually witnessed and recorded with surveillance cameras an exchange of money between the straw purchaser and another individual on the premises.6

Despite this actual knowledge of a straw purchase, the dealer said ATF officials wanted him to proceed with the transaction.7 However, his employees refused to process the sale.8

In light of this new evidence, the Justice Department‟s claim that the ATF never knowingly sanctioned or allowed the sale of assault weapons to straw purchasers is simply not credible.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

How many times have we told this waterhead president and his handlers like Bloomberg no ?


http://content.usatoday.com/communities/theoval/post/2011/04/obama-plans-to-intensify-immigration-debate/1

[foodcourtdruide]

How many times have we told this waterhead president and his handlers like Bloomberg no ?


http://content.usatoday.com/communities/theoval/post/2011/04/obama-plans-to-intensify-immigration-debate/1

So you want immigration reform, but are against a debate on immigration..... what?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

So you want immigration reform, but are against a debate on immigration..... what?

I want enforcement and its already been debated, no amnesty no path to citizenship. Obama is bringing this up again because his Latino support has tumbled because he didnt deliver the goods

[foodcourtdruide]

I want enforcement and its already been debated, no amnesty no path to citizenship. Obama is bringing this up again because his Latino support has tumbled because he didnt deliver the goods

If you don't get your way, will you take your ball and go home?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

If you don't get your way, will you take your ball and go home?

Obamas amnesty pow wow included Dick Trumka, Mike Bloomberg and Al Sharpton Sharpton ? really? They are all open borders worshippers. Why were no Border state governors or members of congress invited ?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

If you don't get your way, will you take your ball and go home?

You should ask that to the illegals

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Guess who else loves 4/15?


http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/why-illegal-immigrants-favorite-day-is-april-15-119689189.html


There were dozens of articles saying that illegals pay taxes. Big deal sales taxes, while some may pay federal taxes thru stolen SSNs. They are not taxpayers

[Jujubees2]

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2011/04/20/2011-04-20_undocumented_unlike_rich_pay_plenty_in_taxes.ht ml

[WRESTLINGFAN]

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2011/04/20/2011-04-20_undocumented_unlike_rich_pay_plenty_in_taxes.ht ml

Amazing how these are 1 sided articles. It doesnt say how much was paid out to them in social services, entitlements, cost to hold them in prisons, educating their children. This article is very misleading

Again while they might pay taxes, they are not taxpayers


Albor Ruiz is just another hack for that rag always siding with the criminals and their supporters

[Barnaby Jones]

Amazing how these are 1 sided articles.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

[WRESTLINGFAN]

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Albor Ruiz


ENOUGH SAID

They pay taxes but they are still a net drain to our society. I'll make it simple for you. If someone sneaks into the staples ctr and has Lakers floor seats and doesnt pay for them but they buy $50.00 worth of concessions, its still a loss.

[Barnaby Jones]

Amazing how these are 1 sided articles

My favorite part of this is that you know he posted this without a single hint of irony!!! He's genuinely criticizing someone else for posting "1 sided articles!!!" It's adorable how cluelessly self-aware he is, like some kind of gigantic, retarded baby!!!! Goochie-goochie-goo, WF!!!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

My favorite part of this is that you know he posted this without a single hint of irony!!! He's genuinely criticizing someone else for posting "1 sided articles!!!" It's adorable how cluelessly self-aware he is, like some kind of gigantic, retarded baby!!!! Goochie-goochie-goo, WF!!!

wrestlingfan, i have a question

do you have any
baby boys
locked in cages
in your basement
like BJ?

Definitely no

[Barnaby Jones]

Poor fat little baby realizes he's been spanked yet again so he resorts to homophobia in this thread and xenophobia in the other!!! He's so scared!!! Go back to frantically Googling every single half assed blog that sort of (but not really) backs up your crazy thought du jour!!!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Poor fat little baby realizes he's been spanked yet again so he resorts to homophobia in this thread and xenophobia in the other!!! He's so scared!!! Go back to frantically Googling every single half assed blog that sort of (but not really) backs up your crazy thought du jour!!!

BJ can not debate and still defends the liability of illegal immigration. Im sure your sweaty meaty fingers are just pounding away right now

[Dude!]

BJ can not debate and still defends the liability of illegal immigration. Im sure your sweaty meaty fingers are just pounding away right now

why do you even bother
with mentally-ill old women?

[TripleSkeet]

I can't figure out your point: are you defending this status quo, or just saying we should accept it as inevitable?

In fact they mostly make much less than minimum wage, work long long hours without OT, are exposed to pesticides and other lousy work conditions, are paid under the table so they and their employers are paying nothing into Soc Sec and Medicare, unemployment is unavailable to them when needed, and they live in abject poverty.

So they give that, and you get cheap food. Again, if the work is worth it to the market then it will get done at a fair price. The reason that they and other unskilled worker are paid so little is that they are here illegally, so the system exploits them. If they were here legally then nobody would be available for the system to exploit, wages would be higher becsause they would be driven by the real labor market, and then Americans just may work those jobs.

Im saying I have no problem with people that come here illegally and do hard work for cheap. Is it necessarily fair? I guess not, but hey, thats the price you pay to live here illegally. I just dont agree with the retards crying about how illegals steal jobs from hard working americans. Id rather be able to afford a landscaper because he uses cheap foreign labor then not be able to afford one because he uses regular Americans and has to pay them alot more. I know its selfish, but hey, fuck it, Im selfish.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I wish we had the choice of being selfish in regards to the babysitting we have to do for the illegals and their anchor babies. I wish I could be selfish and not provide them with food housing, education and healthcare and every other entitlement just because they scaled a fence and managed to take advantage of the birthright citizenship loophole and for the most part not pay taxes on their wages. Yes I know some already do but they receive more in a refund than they pay.


The illegal aliens wore out their welcome, we as a generous nation provided them with blanket amnesty, entitlements etc and they kept taking advantage and abusing the taxpayers many times since 1986 and they still came here to feed off the nanny state. We were more than generous and their refusal to be a part of our society and balkanize themselves led to 80% of the country being against them being here and their enablers and employers and politicians catering to their needs.


I am glad any chance for amnesty is dead. Let the Luis Guiterrez Bob Menendez and George and Jeb Bush John McCain complain all they want, we will tell them again NO!!!!!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Now the crybabies in the Mexican government want to sue US gunmakers. Calderon is a real piece of work. He encourages his unwanted to flood the borders so we have to babysit them and then we say no mas and start booting them out, he whines like the little puta that he is.



http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31727_162-20056210-10391695.html

[Barnaby Jones]

BJ can not debate and still defends the liability of illegal immigration. Im sure your sweaty meaty fingers are just pounding away right now

Still swirling the bowl pretending that people aren't just destroying the obvious stupidity of your arguments about anything, WF??? You delude yourself into thinking that people argue with you because they disagree with you (it's the only way your feeble mind can process anything that isn't broken down into cheesy, headline-ready slogans) instead of just recognizing how dumb your arguments are!!! I love how you bomb this site with links to articles and blogs that you post only because they oppose something you oppose, but half of the time you don't even bother to look to see how it often contradicts with other sources and your own ideas!!! It's really hilarious that you just blindly assume anything that opposes something you oppose agrees with you or your other sources!!!

Face fact, chump: the world you want will never exist!!! You're wasting your life with worthless, meaningless fury and it's hilarious!!!!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Still swirling the bowl pretending that people aren't just destroying the obvious stupidity of your arguments about anything, WF??? You delude yourself into thinking that people argue with you because they disagree with you (it's the only way your feeble mind can process anything that isn't broken down into cheesy, headline-ready slogans) instead of just recognizing how dumb your arguments are!!! I love how you bomb this site with links to articles and blogs that you post only because they oppose something you oppose, but half of the time you don't even bother to look to see how it often contradicts with other sources and your own ideas!!! It's really hilarious that you just blindly assume anything that opposes something you oppose agrees with you or your other sources!!!

Face fact, chump: the world you want will never exist!!! You're wasting your life with worthless, meaningless fury and it's hilarious!!!!


This coming from a troll whose city looks like a Central American slum. Good luck when CA slides into the ocean. Let's see who finally kills it, the illegals or San Andreas faultline

[spoon]

yah B Jones, good luck with that meaningless retort to your post

God I hope that slide has a shark tank around it like at Atlantis! California will LOVE it!

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_By4bHOEZ7DA/TIfhxOtyKNI/AAAAAAAACCo/NBNBKBgykKk/s1600/waterslide.jpeg

[WRESTLINGFAN]

3 million needy dependent illegal aliens in Ca isn't a problem of course not!!!

LA county alone paying out in the tens of millions alone in welfare. Tens of billions in the red for the entire state thanks to the human tsunami of illegals. You and BJ sound Luke Baghdad Bobs

[SonOfSmeagol]

Im saying I have no problem with people that come here illegally and do hard work for cheap. Is it necessarily fair? I guess not, but hey, thats the price you pay to live here illegally. I just dont agree with the retards crying about how illegals steal jobs from hard working americans. Id rather be able to afford a landscaper because he uses cheap foreign labor then not be able to afford one because he uses regular Americans and has to pay them alot more. I know its selfish, but hey, fuck it, Im selfish.

Well at least you're honest. Maybe offer a little warm lemonade when they're out there slaving on your lawn, every other week or so.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

yah B Jones, good luck with that meaningless retort to your post

God I hope that slide has a shark tank around it like at Atlantis! California will LOVE it!

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_By4bHOEZ7DA/TIfhxOtyKNI/AAAAAAAACCo/NBNBKBgykKk/s1600/waterslide.jpeg

Just picture those people as taxdollars just sliding away into a cesspool of entitlements

[TripleSkeet]

Well at least you're honest. Maybe offer a little warm lemonade when they're out there slaving on your lawn, every other week or so.

:lol::lol::lol:

The best part is, I dont have a landscaper, LOL. I did when I lived in Florida, TONS of cheap foreign labor over there. I just like to know if I decide I want it, I can afford it. And Im not an animal, Ill make sure the water I give them is ice cold.....right from the hose.

[TripleSkeet]

They pay taxes but they are still a net drain to our society. I'll make it simple for you. If someone sneaks into the staples ctr and has Lakers floor seats and doesnt pay for them but they buy $50.00 worth of concessions, its still a loss.

Youre not helping yourself with this analogy. Because its ridiculous and wrong. Now if the guy that snuck in somehow prevented someone from buying that floor seat, then they would lose money, but it doesnt. Sneaking into a game doesnt cost a sports team anything, they are actually up $50 from that guy being there.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Youre not helping yourself with this analogy. Because its ridiculous and wrong. Now if the guy that snuck in somehow prevented someone from buying that floor seat, then they would lose money, but it doesnt. Sneaking into a game doesnt cost a sports team anything, they are actually up $50 from that guy being there.

you get the point

The fact of the matter is, if an illegal pays $5000 thru a phony Social security number but gets back $8000 thru child credits EITC he is a drain on the tax system

In a nutshell anyone receiving less back then their liability is a taxpayer and most illegals are not

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Neo con scumbags like Lindsey Graham and McCain want all out war against a country that did not invade us. Big sis insists the border is safer than ever, but if you think Al Qaeda are ruthless savages take a peek at the animals south of the border

The powers that be insist that its only illiterate peasants who want to mow lawns and pregnant women waiting to drop a kid that are infesting this country

http://www.aolnews.com/2011/04/22/expert-sylvia-longmire-mexican-drug-cartels-infesting-us-even/

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/apr/19/violent-mexican-drug-gang-expands-into-us/

Makes Fallujah circa 2004 look like a carnival cruise ship

"Known for mounting the severed heads of their rivals on poles or hanging their dismembered bodies from bridges in cities throughout Mexico, the Zetas have easily become the most feared criminal gang in Mexico — where 35,000 people have been killed in a continuing drug war. Everyone is a potential victim: men, women and children."

[Snoogans]

Neo con scumbags like Lindsey Graham and McCain want all out war against a country that did not invade us. Big sis insists the border is safer than ever, but if you think Al Qaeda are ruthless savages take a peek at the animals south of the border

The powers that be insist that its only illiterate peasants who want to mow lawns and pregnant women waiting to drop a kid that are infesting this country

http://www.aolnews.com/2011/04/22/expert-sylvia-longmire-mexican-drug-cartels-infesting-us-even/

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/apr/19/violent-mexican-drug-gang-expands-into-us/

Makes Fallujah circa 2004 look like a carnival cruise ship

"Known for mounting the severed heads of their rivals on poles or hanging their dismembered bodies from bridges in cities throughout Mexico, the Zetas have easily become the most feared criminal gang in Mexico — where 35,000 people have been killed in a continuing drug war. Everyone is a potential victim: men, women and children."

the craziest part is the Zetas, in terms of money and control of territories, arent even that big compared to like Sinaloa(sp) and shit

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Shi'ite Muslim terrorists working with the cartels

http://liveshots.blogs.foxnews.com/2011/02/21/hezbollah-working-with-cartels/


If the neocons paid more attention to the southern border instead of invading countries that arent a threat to us, maybe this problem could be averted. I think 100K troops guarding the border is a much better strategy than 100K troops acting as social workers 8000 miles away

[TripleSkeet]

Neo con scumbags like Lindsey Graham and McCain want all out war against a country that did not invade us. Big sis insists the border is safer than ever, but if you think Al Qaeda are ruthless savages take a peek at the animals south of the border

The powers that be insist that its only illiterate peasants who want to mow lawns and pregnant women waiting to drop a kid that are infesting this country

http://www.aolnews.com/2011/04/22/expert-sylvia-longmire-mexican-drug-cartels-infesting-us-even/

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/apr/19/violent-mexican-drug-gang-expands-into-us/

Makes Fallujah circa 2004 look like a carnival cruise ship

"Known for mounting the severed heads of their rivals on poles or hanging their dismembered bodies from bridges in cities throughout Mexico, the Zetas have easily become the most feared criminal gang in Mexico — where 35,000 people have been killed in a continuing drug war. Everyone is a potential victim: men, women and children."

What exactly is the point in killing children in a drug war???? I mean, why would these people just execute random innocent people? What is it that they gain from that? Im not being a smartass I just really have no interest in drug culture so I dont know.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I wouldnt mind some of these zetas http://www.customink.com/photos/system/images/431/original/zetas.jpg?1274836934


or this one


http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa78/looking4good/catherinezetajones-k045.jpg

[KnoxHarrington]

By the way, a new study estimates that illegal immigrants paid more than $11B in taxes last year...certainly more than some other people we could mention did.

his past month, there was much outrage over the fact that General Electric, despite making $14.2 billion in profits, paid zero U.S. taxes in 2010. General Electric actually received tax credits of $3.2 billion from American taxpayers.

At the same time that General Electric was not paying taxes, many undocumented immigrants, who are typically accused of taking advantage of the system while not contributing to it by many on the right, paid $11.2 billion in taxes. A new study by the Institute for Taxation and Economic Policy shows that undocumented immigrants paid $8.4 billion in sales taxes, $1.6 billion in property taxes, and $1.2 billion in personal income taxes last year. The study also estimates that nearly half of all undocumented immigrants pay income taxes.

OMG THESE BROWN PEOPLE ARE A BURDEN ON THE TAXPAYER

No, fucknuts, they are taxpayers.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

By the way, a new study estimates that illegal immigrants paid more than $11B in taxes last year...certainly more than some other people we could mention did.



OMG THESE ILLEGAL BROWN, YELLOW AND WHITE PEOPLE ARE A BURDEN ON THE TAXPAYER

No, fucknuts, they are taxpayers.


This is just CA

http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/immigrationnaturalizatio/a/caillegals.htm

"In hosting America's largest population of illegal immigrants, California bears a huge cost to provide basic human services for this fast growing, low-income segment of its population. A new study from the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR) examines the costs of education, health care and incarceration of illegal aliens, and concludes that the costs to Californians is $10.5 billion per year."

Thats from '04 so you know that number has gone up

And look how much they cost the taxpayer with welfare and education and healthcare and unpaid medical bills, incarceration. Yes these illegals are real contributors

Big fucking deal.. again They pay sales taxes. So does everyone else. Lets give them sainthood. What about American citizens who are taxed on every level including local. And are subsidizing them and their families by being forced to babysit them. Illegal aliens are not taxpayers.

[foodcourtdruide]

This is just CA

http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/immigrationnaturalizatio/a/caillegals.htm

"In hosting America's largest population of illegal immigrants, California bears a huge cost to provide basic human services for this fast growing, low-income segment of its population. A new study from the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR) examines the costs of education, health care and incarceration of illegal aliens, and concludes that the costs to Californians is $10.5 billion per year."

Thats from '04 so you know that number has gone up

And look how much they cost the taxpayer with welfare and education and healthcare and unpaid medical bills, incarceration. Yes these illegals are real contributors

Big fucking deal.. again They pay sales taxes. So does everyone else. Lets give them sainthood. What about American citizens who are taxed on every level including local. And are subsidizing them and their families by being forced to babysit them. Illegal aliens are not taxpayers.

Because of their low income, illegal immigrants would have to pay very little in the way of income taxes anyway. They use things like welfare, healthcare, etc. at a much lower rate than their legal socio-economic counterparts for fear of deportation. Just accept they are not a huge burden to taxpayers, and any crazy scheme you have to get rid of them would ultimately pay the tax payer a lot more than the current system we have now.

Stop pretending your reasons for hating them is financial, it's a lie and we all know it.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Because of their low income, illegal immigrants would have to pay very little in the way of income taxes anyway. They use things like welfare, healthcare, etc. at a much lower rate than their legal socio-economic counterparts for fear of deportation. Just accept they are not a huge burden to taxpayers, and any crazy scheme you have to get rid of them would ultimately pay the tax payer a lot more than the current system we have now.

Stop pretending your reasons for hating them is financial, it's a lie and we all know it.


I already backed off the notion of mass deportations because it would cost too much. Denying them social services, cracking down on the employers and landlords and starving them out would force them to self deport. They started leaving AZ when SB 1070 was passed. Make life unbearable for them by not affording them any opportunity and they will leave on their own

So now you speak for everyone



Most illegal aliens do use public assistance, yet proving my statement that they are needy dependant people who can not carry their own weight.


In other words they are a financial liability.

http://www.allvoices.com/s/event-8702329/aHR0cDovL2Npcy5vcmcvaW1taWdyYW50LXdlbGZhcmUtdXNlLT IwMTE=


Its not just financial reasons, its also due to the increased crime, the lowering of the property values and quality of life, unlicensed drivers many who drive drunk their sense of entitlement too. They feel they should be rewarded

[WRESTLINGFAN]

The census also shows that illegals are sucking off the teet of the taxpayers


http://www.examiner.com/law-enforcement-in-national/census-most-illegal-alien-families-on-government-dole

[foodcourtdruide]

I already backed off the notion of mass deportations because it would cost too much. Denying them social services, cracking down on the employers and landlords and starving them out would force them to self deport. They started leaving AZ when SB 1070 was passed. Make life unbearable for them by not affording them any opportunity and they will leave on their own

So now you speak for everyone



Most illegal aliens do use public assistance, yet proving my statement that they are needy dependant people who can not carry their own weight.


In other words they are a financial liability.

http://www.allvoices.com/s/event-8702329/aHR0cDovL2Npcy5vcmcvaW1taWdyYW50LXdlbGZhcmUtdXNlLT IwMTE=


Its not just financial reasons, its also due to the increased crime, the lowering of the property values and quality of life, unlicensed drivers many who drive drunk their sense of entitlement too. They feel they should be rewarded

WF, I really can't argue with you. Did you read the link you posted? Your statement:

Most illegal aliens do use public assistance, yet proving my statement that they are needy dependant people who can not carry their own weight.

IS COMPLETELY in contrast to what the article was saying.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

WF, I really can't argue with you. Did you read the link you posted? Your statement:

Most illegal aliens do use public assistance, yet proving my statement that they are needy dependant people who can not carry their own weight.

IS COMPLETELY in contrast to what the article was saying.

•Welfare use tends to be high for both new arrivals and established residents. In 2009, 60 percent of households with children headed by an immigrant who arrived in 2000 or later used at least one welfare program; for households headed by immigrants who arrived before 2000 it was 55 percent.

Doesnt sound conflicting to me


If someone comes here for the intent to collect off the taxpayer they are needy and dependant. , poor people having children regardless of immigration status is the most immoral thing a parent can do. Illegal aliens are immoral because they are having children knowing that they can be deported and separated from their anchor babies. No one forced them to come here.

[foodcourtdruide]

•Welfare use tends to be high for both new arrivals and established residents. In 2009, 60 percent of households with children headed by an immigrant who arrived in 2000 or later used at least one welfare program; for households headed by immigrants who arrived before 2000 it was 55 percent.

Doesnt sound conflicting to me


If someone comes here for the intent to collect off the taxpayer they are needy and dependant. , poor people having children regardless of immigration status is the most immoral thing a parent can do. Illegal aliens are immoral because they are having children knowing that they can be deported and separated from their anchor babies. No one forced them to come here.

The part you quoted was about immigrants in general, not just illegals. Also, I'm SO ANNOYED at you for making me have to go through the article and point these pieces out, but your statement:

Most illegal aliens do use public assistance, yet proving my statement that they are needy dependant people who can not carry their own weight.

Did you see this:

•An unwillingness to work is not the reason immigrant welfare use is high. The vast majority (95 percent) of immigrant households with children had at least one worker in 2009. But their low education levels mean that more than half of these working immigrant households with children still accessed the welfare system during 2009.

They ARE working, but becuase their income levels are so low they need assistance. And AGAIN this applies to ALL immigrants, not just illegals. They are not "needy, dependent people," that is such an unfair assessment.

In fact, this is what YOUR LINK said about illegals:

•Illegal immigrant households with children primarily use food assistance and Medicaid, making almost no use of cash or housing assistance. In contrast, legal immigrant households tend to have relatively high use rates for every type of program.

THIS AGREES WITH MY POINT THAT YOU ORIGINALLY THOUGHT WAS SO ABSURD:
They use things like welfare, healthcare, etc. at a much lower rate than their legal socio-economic counterparts for fear of deportation.

Why did you even post this link? It's not about illegal immigrants, it's about immigrants in general, and furthmore poverty in general. It is not proving the point you want to prove.

You have NO ability to think critically about things.

Take this part of your link for example:

•We estimate that 52 percent of households with children headed by legal immigrants used at least one welfare program in 2009, compared to 71 percent for illegal immigrant households with children. Illegal immigrants generally receive benefits on behalf of their U.S.-born children.

Why do you think that is? Do you think legal immigrants are 19% more capable than illegal immigrants? Did you read the rest of the article? Did you know that the majority of that 71% comes from food assistance? Do you think we shouldn't give food to starving people? Is that what you mean by "starving them out"? Do you think that we should literally allow these people to starve to death? Do you think that we should let american citizens (their children) starve to death? Do you think that deporting their parents, and having the children go into foster care would ultimately cost this country less money? Do you see how you have absolutely no critical thought on this issue? Do you see that bumper stickers don't solve complex problems?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

The part you quoted was about immigrants in general, not just illegals. Also, I'm SO ANNOYED at you for making me have to go through the article and point these pieces out, but your statement:

Most illegal aliens do use public assistance, yet proving my statement that they are needy dependant people who can not carry their own weight.

Did you see this:

•An unwillingness to work is not the reason immigrant welfare use is high. The vast majority (95 percent) of immigrant households with children had at least one worker in 2009. But their low education levels mean that more than half of these working immigrant households with children still accessed the welfare system during 2009.

So what, they work but the amount of social services they use outweighs their wages

They ARE working, but becuase their income levels are so low they need assistance. And AGAIN this applies to ALL immigrants, not just illegals. They are not "needy, dependent people," that is such an unfair assessment.

Yes it is a fair assessment. Maybe they should think twice about having children. Its not their right or my responsibility for their poor choices
In fact, this is what YOUR LINK said about illegals:

•Illegal immigrant households with children primarily use food assistance and Medicaid, making almost no use of cash or housing assistance. In contrast, legal immigrant households tend to have relatively high use rates for every type of program.


The foodstamps and medicaid have to come from somewhere, theres no such thing as free.

THIS AGREES WITH MY POINT THAT YOU ORIGINALLY THOUGHT WAS SO ABSURD:
They use things like welfare, healthcare, etc. at a much lower rate than their legal socio-economic counterparts for fear of deportation.

How so? Even though I am against a giant welfare state, at least the legal ones went thru proper channels The illegals are still participating in these programs and are still a burden to taxpayers. In regards to killing some entitlements thats for another thread


Why did you even post this link? It's not about illegal immigrants, it's about immigrants in general, and furthmore poverty in general. It is not proving the point you want to prove.

Illegal aliens are still using these programs and being rewarded for breaking the law. No one forced them to come here

You have NO ability to think critically about things.

I just did!!!
Take this part of your link for example:

•We estimate that 52 percent of households with children headed by legal immigrants used at least one welfare program in 2009, compared to 71 percent for illegal immigrant households with children. Illegal immigrants generally receive benefits on behalf of their U.S.-born children.

Why do you think that is? Do you think legal immigrants are 19% more capable than illegal immigrants? Did you read the rest of the article? Did you know that the majority of that 71% comes from food assistance? Do you think we shouldn't give food to starving people? Is that what you mean by "starving them out"? Do you think that we should literally allow these people to starve to death? Do you think that we should let american citizens (their children) starve to death? Do you think that deporting their parents, and having the children go into foster care would ultimately cost this country less money? Do you see how you have absolutely no critical thought on this issue? Do you see that bumper stickers don't solve complex problems?

Again food assistance is being rewarded for their behavior. Break down the doors and its carte blanche to feed off the taxpayers. 80% of us have said no more and enough is enough, but what does it matter to you?

No matter how you look at it illegals are still a net drain to our society. The FAIR report said that they cost taxpayers 113 billion annually while they contribute much less

It does not have to be complex, you always have to make things more complex than they are. Quit rewarding the illegals and they will leave.

Heres an idea, since I am in favor of cutting off all taxpayer funded services to them, maybe they can go and beg to the church for food. Its the church who wants open borders to fill the dwindling attendances on Sunday mornings



The illegal aliens took that chance of coming here and knew that they are here illegally. They should know that they risk a chance of getting deported Its personal responsibility. They need to be responsible parents and not let everyone else clean up the mess.


If they are deported they can take their anchor babies with them. No one said that families should be separated. If the anchor baby loophole was closed, maybe they would think twice about having children and risk being punished


You seem to think that illegal aliens are honorable people but they are here to take advantage of our politicians unwillingness to enforce laws and the fact that greedy corporations want cheap labor


Maybe we might have to look at more restrictions for legal immigrants. We are not a developing nation anymore and there are more than enough people 310MM is our population. We already allow 1mm people in annually. Coming here is not a right.

Granting another amnesty is suicidal as it would encourage more illegals to flood the country, plus with chain migration you can see the population swell up to 500 million before 2050. Do you know what chain migration is? It basically allows someone given amnesty to bring over their extended family. Now imagine 20 million people given amnesty, our population would be off the chart.

The problem needs to be solved, and it doesnt have to be more complex than youre making it out to be. Punish the illegals, They need to decide if deported if they want to bring their anchor babies back with them. If they are moral then they would. Use Arizona as a model, when SB1070 passed the illegals left in droves


I dont know your party affiliation so I wont judge you, however a growing majority of Democrats and some liberals have had it with the amount of illegal aliens and the amount of money pissed away for them. They are sick and tired of the pandering, the free passes and the lack of respect that the illegals have for our laws.


Look at the replies fromSnacks, He probably disagrees with everything I believe in when it comes to politics, I think hes left of center but from his reply he's fed up with this problem as well.


No more rewarding illegals, punish them and the employers, no more entitlements and close the anchor baby loophole. Its not that complicated

[Syd]

You all might have said enough is enough, but money talks and bullshit walks. You still buy products from companies that employ illegal immigrants almost certainly.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

They still don't get the message.

SIN LOS SPAM!!!!
Las Mujeres Longoria y Dawson , Usted todo comprende?


http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-04-28/obama-enlists-longoria-dawson-to-aid-immigration-overhaul-plan.html

[WRESTLINGFAN]

You all might have said enough is enough, but money talks and bullshit walks. You still buy products from companies that employ illegal immigrants almost certainly.

No thanks to greedy corporations.

A streamlined guest worker seasonal program would cut into that

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I really wish some of these open borders and amnesty worshippers would stop with the complaining when it comes to words that makes them offended


Saying illegal aliens is not racist. While the majority of illegals are from Latin America there isnt a race of illegals. Many come from China and Europe. According to the dictionary


al·ien   /ˈeɪlyən, ˈeɪliən/ Show Spelled
[eyl-yuhn, ey-lee-uhn] Show IPA

–noun
1. a resident born in or belonging to another country who has not acquired citizenship by naturalization ( distinguished from citizen).


So if they are not a citizen and they are here illegally, Hence illegal alien

[Furtherman]

http://cbswwmx.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/best-photo-ever-will-kate-kiss-girl.jpg?w=385&h=314

[WRESTLINGFAN]

http://cbswwmx.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/best-photo-ever-will-kate-kiss-girl.jpg?w=385&h=314

Mum , even our beloved UK has this problem just like the Yanks. Whats with all the needy dependant Pakistanis?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I love how this is the headline


Immigration advocates press President Obama

More like La Raza wants to call the shots

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0511/54629.html

Luis Gutierrez is nothing but a parasite. Who does he really represent ?

Oh and its not those teabaggin NASCAR types opposed to the influx of illegals


http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/may/9/democrats-hit-obama-with-gap-on-illegals/


This is basically big business and the political class going against the will of the people. They want the cheap uneducated labor and the promisr of future ignorant needy dependant voters who will re elect them and dole out more goodies for them for their blind loyalty

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Debunking the pro amnesty/open border myths


1) They are an economic necessity - Not true. The idea that a bunch of desperately poor, uneducated, unskilled, illegal foreigners are an economic necessity is ludicrous. In fact, when you compare cost vs. benefit, it is obvious that they are not only NOT a necessity, they are not even an asset. Rather, they are a liability and a huge one at that.

2) They do work Americans won’t do - Not true. They do work Americans won’t do for $7 an hour (especially if Americans can collect welfare and unemployment forever). Of course, if you got rid of the illegals, the jobs wouldn’t pay $7 an hour. The people who wanted the work done would have to pay a wage that was attractive enough to get Americans to do the work. And it might even be enough so Americans could support themselves and get off welfare and unemployment !!

3) They work & contribute to our society - So do I. And if I break the law and commit crimes, I can expect to pay a penalty of some kind. Anything from a small fine to the death penalty. I do not receive a reward. This argument makes no sense.

4) They are just trying to make better lives - Aren’t we all? The difference is that most of us understand that we don’t have a right to acquire by illegal means those things that we find difficult to acquire by legal means. And we certainly don’t have the right to do it in a foreign country. Mexico does not allow foreigners to enter their country illegally and break it’s laws. If you believe differently, go give it a try. Call me collect from the dungeon. Let me know how it went.....

5) It is impossible to round up and deport the illegals - We don’t have to. All we have to do is remove the incentives that brought them here in the first place. No jobs. No housing. No taxpayer financed services or benefits. Once we remove the incentives that brought them here, they will leave on their own.

6) Immigration control is racist - This is just another play of the race card by people who have no other cards to play. Immigration control is the world-wide status quo. There is nothing racist about it. Furthermore, the USA welcomes LEGAL immigrants of all races and ethnicities from all over the world who have gone through the legal immigration process. This is not just a bad argument, it is an attempt to create racial hatred and division.

7) We are a nation of immigrants - Not true. I am not an immigrant. Nor were my parents We are, however, a nation that has, historically, allowed and even encouraged legal immigration. And we continue to do so. The issue at hand is illegal immigration, which has nothing to do with legal immigration. This argument is totally irrelevant to the issue at hand.

8) They are people. We must treat them humanely - Yes & yes. But lets not pretend like they are victims who were dragged here kicking and screaming against their will. Nothing could be further from the truth. They came of their own free will and for their own benefit and they broke the law to do it. People should not be rewarded for breaking laws and committing crimes. Sending them home is the right thing to do. There is nothing “draconian” about it.

9) It is wrong to break up families- Yes. Unfortunately, families are often broken up by criminal activity. If you don’t believe it, just drop by any prison or jail on visiting day. We can’t keep families together if some family members choose to participate in criminal activity.

[Crispy123]

If I type something in a bold font, that makes it true!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

If I type something in a bold font, that makes it true!

It also makes it a fact

[Crispy123]

It also makes it a fact

I especially like the "fact" that America is not a nation of immigrants.

You are a loon and I keep coming into these stupid threads when I tell myself not to, that is a fact.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I especially like the "fact" that America is not a nation of immigrants.

You are a loon and I keep coming into these stupid threads when I tell myself not to, that is a fact.

I should correct that, now we are a country of illegal aliens. Loon? I just pointed out all the rebuttals of the pro amnesty lobby


A loon is the Bullshitter in chief making idiotic remarks about building a moat with alligators and making himself look stupid. That line he even had to read off the prompter.

[Crispy123]

I just put random Fox news talking points instead of a rebuttal of the pro amnesty lobby

fixed

[WRESTLINGFAN]

fixed


Does everything center around fox news? A large majority of the country is opposed to Amnesty and open borders and the influx of lllegals including many DEMOCRATS most dont have a favorable opinion of Fox

You should have your own show on MSNBC. The Fat Turk at 6pm has no ratings. You can replace him. Better yet go on at 8pm. The constantly bitter O'Donnell needs to be put away

[Crispy123]

PREDICATABLE

but true

Does everything center around fox news? A large majority of the country is opposed to Amnesty and open borders and the influx of lllegals including many DEMOCRATS most dont have a favorable opinion of Fox.

Sure those poll numbers jive with Fox news and the Heritage Institute but not OTHER sources.

Poll: Sympathy on immigration, desire for secure borders (http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2010-05-03-immigration-poll_N.htm)

The great thing about Democrats, they are allowed to have different opinions on the issues.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

but true


2+2=4



FOX NEWS FOX NEWS!!!!!!

[Crispy123]

2+2=4



FOX NEWS FOX NEWS!!!!!!

illegal immigrants are dirty, brown and evil!

illegal immigrants are dirty, brown and evil!

illegal immigrants are dirty, brown and evil!

http://www.ostrichheadinsand.com/images/ostrich_head_in_sand.jpg

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Immigration doesn't need fixing.

Dealing with Illegal aliens does. Fix the fence, fix the incentives and fix any state, or city that is harboring illegal aliens by denying them federal or state money.

Fix the businesses that hire illegals by arresting the owners, and confiscate business assets.


Illegal Alien Problem solved.

Doesnt take a 3000 page bill.

[Jujubees2]

illegal immigrants are dirty, brown and evil!

illegal immigrants are dirty, brown and evil!

illegal immigrants are dirty, brown and evil!

http://www.ostrichheadinsand.com/images/ostrich_head_in_sand.jpg

And they drive drunk a lot too!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

And they drive drunk a lot too!

not even God couldnt save her



http://www.aolnews.com/2010/08/03/police-illegal-immigrant-kills-nun-in-drunken-driving-crash/

[Jujubees2]

not even God couldnt save her



http://www.aolnews.com/2010/08/03/police-illegal-immigrant-kills-nun-in-drunken-driving-crash/

Sister Glenna Smith says the Catholic nuns have always provided social services - including adult literacy courses and counseling - regardless of immigration status, and they are upset the tragedy has become fodder for policy debate.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Sister Glenna Smith says the Catholic nuns have always provided social services - including adult literacy courses and counseling - regardless of immigration status, and they are upset the tragedy has become fodder for policy debate.

With dwindling membership in the church. Hell take what you can get

[Jujubees2]

Get ready for WF to blow a gasket!

In-state tuition proposal for children of illegal immigrants passes state House (http://www.newstimes.com/news/article/In-state-tuition-proposal-for-children-of-illegal-1377211.php#ixzz1MEma0D9D)

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Get ready for WF to blow a gasket!

In-state tuition proposal for children of illegal immigrants passes state House (http://www.newstimes.com/news/article/In-state-tuition-proposal-for-children-of-illegal-1377211.php#ixzz1MEma0D9D)

Doesnt surprise me. This coming from a state full of idiots who voted for someone who lied about being in 'Nam

[Jujubees2]

Doesnt surprise me. This coming from a state full of idiots who voted for someone who lied about being in 'Nam

Can't argue with you there.

WRESTLINGFAN

Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Stamford CT
Posts: 7,061

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Should I bring my passport next time I come to da Bx ?

[Jujubees2]

Should I bring my passport next time I come to da Bx ?

Hell no, we have an open border policy. Just bring lots of pesos.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Hell no, we have an open border policy. Just bring lots of pesos.

The weak dollar is killin me. I paid over 1500 pesos for Yankees tickets for Sundays game

[Jujubees2]

The weak dollar is killin me. I paid over 1500 pesos for Yankees tickets for Sundays game

Wait til you try to buy a cerverza a the game

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Big Sis and Obama still think the border is safe


http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_18049095?source=rss

[Barnaby Jones]

Big Sis and Obama still think the border is safe


http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_18049095?source=rss

How desperate, even for you!!!

Spoiler alert: two border patrol agents were tragically killed en route to arrest some illegals when their vehicle was hit by a freight train!!! WF's loopy brain has convinced him that this wouldn't have happened if America had totally realistic and not expensive at all sealed borders!!!!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

How desperate, even for you!!!

Spoiler alert: two border patrol agents were tragically killed en route to arrest some illegals when their vehicle was hit by a freight train!!! WF's loopy brain has convinced him that this wouldn't have happened if America had totally realistic and not expensive at all sealed borders!!!!

Were the BP agents trying to join a couple of hobos in a boxcar ?
If the illegals didnt infest the border they would be alive

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Moats and alligators as Obama yuks it up with amnesty worshippers meanwhile border residents are fleeing their homes due to illegals starting fires


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1386893/Obama-slammed-Horseshoe-Canyon-victims-moats-alligator-jokes.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

[TripleSkeet]

Were the BP agents trying to join a couple of hobos in a boxcar ?
If the illegals didnt infest the border they would be alive

Youre really stretching the blame game now. If illegals didnt infest the border maybe those guys wouldnt have had jobs and wouldve been trying to join the hobos in the boxcar.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Think Afghanistan is bad ?


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110516/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/lt_drug_war_guatemala

[Barnaby Jones]

Were the BP agents trying to join a couple of hobos in a boxcar ?
If the illegals didnt infest the border they would be alive

Really??? So you actually have an image in your mind of a world where border patrols aren't needed and nobody would ever try to enter the country illegally??? Because that's the only way you can definitively say that these men wouldn't have been killed!!!

But I guess you thinking that anti-immigration policies can somehow stop fire answers that question!!!

Oh, I'll bet your answer to all of this is to seal of the borders with the military, right???? Guess all that talk about cutting government spending is just bull-shit, slappy!!!!

[Barnaby Jones]

Think Afghanistan is bad ?


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110516/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/lt_drug_war_guatemala

Once again WF just blindly posts an article based on his frantic, sweaty Google searches!!! Wonder what his point is talking about drug deaths in Guatemala??? Is WF endorsing that the US intervene in Central America to deal with the cartels??? Mr. Ron Paul would be appalled!!!!!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Really??? So you actually have an image in your mind of a world where border patrols aren't needed and nobody would ever try to enter the country illegally??? Because that's the only way you can definitively say that these men wouldn't have been killed!!!

They could have dies in another way but the cause of their death was drug running illegals coming across the border


But I guess you thinking that anti-immigration policies can somehow stop fire answers that question!!!


Why must you always confuse illegal with legal

Oh, I'll bet your answer to all of this is to seal of the borders with the military, right???? Guess all that talk about cutting government spending is just bull-shit, slappy!!!!

Government doing what its required to do

It would be a hell of a lot cheaper than pissing away trillions to nation build. I WILL POST ARTICLE 4 SECTION 4 FOR THE MILLIONTH TIME. READ IN BOLD


The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Crispy123]

Government doing what its required to do

It would be a hell of a lot cheaper than pissing away trillions to nation build. I WILL POST ARTICLE 4 SECTION 4 FOR THE MILLIONTH TIME. READ IN BOLD


The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence.

in·va·sionnoun /inˈvāZHən/ 
invasions, plural

1.An instance of invading a country or region with an armed force

could this be what they meant?

[Dudeman]

could this be what they meant?

Only if you strictly interpret the constitution.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

could this be what they meant?

These definitions too

2. the entrance or advent of anything troublesome or harmful, as disease.
3. entrance as if to take possession or overrun

[Crispy123]

These definitions too

2. the entrance or advent of anything troublesome or harmful, as disease.
3. entrance as if to take possession or overrun


so the constitution protects us from polio and mumps? awesome! free healt care for all WF says so!!!

[Dudeman]

so the constitution protects us from polio and mumps? awesome! free healt care for all WF says so!!!

The Koch brothers' companies are "entering" (ie. dumping) formaldehyde, a known harmful carcinogen, into the water supply.... federal government start protecting because it is your constitutional duty.

Hey, who knew you could twist the cookie-cutter, slogan based approach to government called "strict constitutional interpretation" into whatever you want it to mean.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

The Koch brothers' companies are "entering" (ie. dumping) formaldehyde, a known harmful carcinogen, into the water supply.... federal government start protecting because it is your constitutional duty.

Hey, who knew you could twist the cookie-cutter, slogan based approach to government called "strict constitutional interpretation" into whatever you want it to mean.



Speaking of contaminating water


The presidents favorite company is responsible for dumping PCBs into the water

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Hey Carlos

I didnt know illegal alien is a race. Fucking dope

http://www.ajc.com/sports/atlanta-braves/santana-blasts-georgia-immigration-946782.html

[hanso]

Government doing what its required to do

It would be a hell of a lot cheaper than pissing away trillions to nation build. I WILL POST ARTICLE 4 SECTION 4 FOR THE MILLIONTH TIME. READ IN BOLD


The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

<iframe width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/4VBkQAkhcS8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Maybe the wingnuts interprete it this way. After all they do worship on the Regan alter.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Aliens will not bother invading this shit planet so there's nothing to worry about

[hanso]

Aliens will not bother invading this shit planet so there's nothing to worry about

Only if you talk funny and live in the sticks.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Mexico enforces its laws yet they cry and complain when we enforce ours


http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/2011/05/18/2011-05-18_mexican_cops_bust_513_migrants_packed_in_2_truc ks_headed_for_us_border_we_were_s.html

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Ah yes the benefits of open borders and allowing the bottom of the barrell from the 3rd world to infest our country.


http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2011/05/20/2011-05-20_alexander_alfaro_sentenced_to_212_years_in_pris on_for_his_role_in_newark_schooly.html

[Barnaby Jones]

WF's true colors creeping through again! 6 people arrested and convicted...only one was an illegal immigrant!!! Even he can't claim the crime wouldn't have happened if that one guy wasn't here, so now he's turning on the "the bottom of the barrell from the 3rd world" yet again!!! So what's WF's answer???? Deny immigration from certain countries? Deny immigration to anyone with any type of criminal record???? Deny immigration to anyone below a certain income level??? Drop some knowledge on us, DubyaEff!!!!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

WF's true colors creeping through again! 6 people arrested and convicted...only one was an illegal immigrant!!! Even he can't claim the crime wouldn't have happened if that one guy wasn't here, so now he's turning on the "the bottom of the barrell from the 3rd world" yet again!!! So what's WF's answer???? Deny immigration from certain countries? Deny immigration to anyone with any type of criminal record???? Deny immigration to anyone below a certain income level??? Drop some knowledge on us, DubyaEff!!!!

Like we dont let enough people in this country here LEGALLY!!!!!


Whiskey Tango Foxtrot? Do you know the difference btwn legal and illegal ?


We avg over 1 million to come in thhe right way

http://www.numbersusa.com/content/nusablog/cbreiter2/may-4-2009/does-united-states-admit-a-reasonable-number-legal-immigrants.html


Where are most of the illegals from?


Do a goodle search for crimes by illegals. The names of the criminals are not named Sven Jorgensen.

[SonOfSmeagol]

WF's true colors creeping through again! 6 people arrested and convicted...only one was an illegal immigrant!!! Even he can't claim the crime wouldn't have happened if that one guy wasn't here, so now he's turning on the "the bottom of the barrell from the 3rd world" yet again!!! So what's WF's answer???? Deny immigration from certain countries? Deny immigration to anyone with any type of criminal record???? Deny immigration to anyone below a certain income level??? Drop some knowledge on us, DubyaEff!!!!

What a dog might see:

WF___________________________________!!!! _______________________________!!!! __________WF's____________???? ___________________________???? ____________________???? _______WF________!!!!

[Barnaby Jones]

Like we dont let enough people in this country here LEGALLY!!!!!


Whiskey Tango Foxtrot? Do you know the difference btwn legal and illegal ?


We avg over 1 million to come in thhe right way

http://www.numbersusa.com/content/nusablog/cbreiter2/may-4-2009/does-united-states-admit-a-reasonable-number-legal-immigrants.html


Where are most of the illegals from?


Do a goodle search for crimes by illegals. The names of the criminals are not named Sven Jorgensen.

Dodging questions yet again!!! The ol' DubyaEff dodge! He avoids them like Haystack Calhoun was coming for him!!!! Here. try again:

WF's true colors creeping through again! 6 people arrested and convicted...only one was an illegal immigrant!!! Even he can't claim the crime wouldn't have happened if that one guy wasn't here, so now he's turning on the "the bottom of the barrell from the 3rd world" yet again!!! So what's WF's answer???? Deny immigration from certain countries? Deny immigration to anyone with any type of criminal record???? Deny immigration to anyone below a certain income level??? Drop some knowledge on us, DubyaEff!!!!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Dodging questions yet again!!! The ol' DubyaEff dodge! He avoids them like Haystack Calhoun was coming for him!!!! Here. try again:

WF's true colors creeping through again! 6 people arrested and convicted...only one was an illegal immigrant!!! Even he can't claim the crime wouldn't have happened if that one guy wasn't here, so now he's turning on the "the bottom of the barrell from the 3rd world" yet again!!! So what's WF's answer???? Deny immigration from certain countries? Deny immigration to anyone with any type of criminal record???? Deny immigration to anyone below a certain income level??? Drop some knowledge on us, DubyaEff!!!!

Must I explain everything to you?

Alfaro is part of MS-13. And where did they originate from? Hmmm lets see Holland? How about having quotas for immigration. Coming here is not a right its a privilege. Most criminals from foreign countries are violent people like rapists, drug dealers etc. Income level why not. If you can not sustain yourself and family without feeding off the taxpayer why should you be allowed to come here. Continued mass immigration both legal and illegal with a massive nanny state welfare system is unsustainable


Please refer to how many people we let in legally. Muchas gracias, Merci, Grazie, Salamat

[foodcourtdruide]

Must I explain everything to you?

Alfaro is part of MS-13. And where did they originate from? Hmmm lets see Holland? How about having quotas for immigration. Coming here is not a right its a privilege. Most criminals from foreign countries are violent people like rapists, drug dealers etc. Income level why not. If you can not sustain yourself and family without feeding off the taxpayer why should you be allowed to come here. Continued mass immigration both legal and illegal with a massive nanny state welfare system is unsustainable


Please refer to how many people we let in legally. Muchas gracias, Merci, Grazie, Salamat

WF, he's saying that your attempted linkage between him being an illegal immigrant and him being a violent criminal is a weak one. The two have nothing to do with each other. If you're anti-illegal immigration, this story really doesn't advance your point.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

WF, he's saying that your attempted linkage between him being an illegal immigrant and him being a violent criminal is a weak one. The two have nothing to do with each other. If you're anti-illegal immigration, this story really doesn't advance your point.

It does. MS-13 Members are mostly illegal aliens. If the illegal wasn't in the country there is a good chance the others wouldnt have joined MS-13

They are spread out all over the country and they make the mob look like amateurs

[Barnaby Jones]

It does. MS-13 Members are mostly illegal aliens. If the illegal wasn't in the country there is a good chance the others wouldnt have joined MS-13

They are spread out all over the country and they make the mob look like amateurs

And if they weren't here illegally you have no way of knowing who would still have come here legally!!! We always end up back here, hence my questions!!! Completely stopping illegal immigration (impossible without spending even more money than they cost now) wouldn't stop people in the poorer economic brackets from coming here!!! Poverty is the primary cause of crime!!! So again, I ask my questions and again I expect you to ignore them!!!

WF's true colors creeping through again! 6 people arrested and convicted...only one was an illegal immigrant!!! Even he can't claim the crime wouldn't have happened if that one guy wasn't here, so now he's turning on the "the bottom of the barrell from the 3rd world" yet again!!! So what's WF's answer???? Deny immigration from certain countries? Deny immigration to anyone with any type of criminal record???? Deny immigration to anyone below a certain income level??? Drop some knowledge on us, DubyaEff!!!!

Explain how you would prevent poor people from coming to this country legally, DubyaEff!!!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

And if they weren't here illegally you have no way of knowing who would still have come here legally!!! We always end up back here, hence my questions!!! Completely stopping illegal immigration (impossible without spending even more money than they cost now) wouldn't stop people in the poorer economic brackets from coming here!!! Poverty is the primary cause of crime!!! So again, I ask my questions and again I expect you to ignore them!!!

WF's true colors creeping through again! 6 people arrested and convicted...only one was an illegal immigrant!!! Even he can't claim the crime wouldn't have happened if that one guy wasn't here, so now he's turning on the "the bottom of the barrell from the 3rd world" yet again!!! So what's WF's answer???? Deny immigration from certain countries? Deny immigration to anyone with any type of criminal record???? Deny immigration to anyone below a certain income level??? Drop some knowledge on us, DubyaEff!!!!

Explain how you would prevent poor people from coming to this country legally, DubyaEff!!!


Wow those teabaggers at NPR seem to disagree with you in regards to crime and economies.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=97234406

Whats your point?

So does maintaining a navy, establishing post offices and post roads. Those cost money too

Stopping illegal immigration costs money because preventing illegal immigration is in the constitution again article 4 section 4

How can you screen out people who can not support themselves? Very simply. Ever apply for a mortgage especially post sept 2008? You have to prove your income, assets, liabilities, tax returns, credit score etc. Now we can apply this to foreigners too.

Again, think our laws are too harsh, look at your amigos to the south, talk about pot calling kettle brown


Here are some examples


Mexico welcomes only foreigners who will be useful to Mexican society:

Foreigners are admitted into Mexico "according to their possibilities of contributing to national progress." (Article 32)

Immigration officials must "ensure" that "immigrants will be useful elements for the country and that they have the necessary funds for their sustenance" and for their dependents. (Article 34)

Foreigners may be barred from the country if their presence upsets "the equilibrium of the national demographics," when foreigners are deemed detrimental to "economic or national interests," when they do not behave like good citizens in their own country, when they have broken Mexican laws, and when "they are not found to be physically or mentally healthy." (Article 37)

The Secretary of Governance may "suspend or prohibit the admission of foreigners when he determines it to be in the national interest." (Article 38)

[WRESTLINGFAN]

ARIZONA WINS :clap::clap:


http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/05/26/scotus.arizona.law/index.html?section=cnn_latest

[Barnaby Jones]

Wow those teabaggers at NPR seem to disagree with you in regards to crime and economies.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=97234406

Whats your point?

So does maintaining a navy, establishing post offices and post roads. Those cost money too

Stopping illegal immigration costs money because preventing illegal immigration is in the constitution again article 4 section 4

How can you screen out people who can not support themselves? Very simply. Ever apply for a mortgage especially post sept 2008? You have to prove your income, assets, liabilities, tax returns, credit score etc. Now we can apply this to foreigners too.

Again, think our laws are too harsh, look at your amigos to the south, talk about pot calling kettle brown


Here are some examples


Mexico welcomes only foreigners who will be useful to Mexican society:

Foreigners are admitted into Mexico "according to their possibilities of contributing to national progress." (Article 32)

Immigration officials must "ensure" that "immigrants will be useful elements for the country and that they have the necessary funds for their sustenance" and for their dependents. (Article 34)

Foreigners may be barred from the country if their presence upsets "the equilibrium of the national demographics," when foreigners are deemed detrimental to "economic or national interests," when they do not behave like good citizens in their own country, when they have broken Mexican laws, and when "they are not found to be physically or mentally healthy." (Article 37)

The Secretary of Governance may "suspend or prohibit the admission of foreigners when he determines it to be in the national interest." (Article 38)

More spin from DubyaEff!!! Nobody brought up Mexico's immigration policy!!!

And why are you so shy about saying you just want to cut off immigration???? Most immigrants seeking to relocate here couldn't even dream of being able "to prove your income, assets, liabilities, tax returns, credit score etc." Why beat around the bush? Unless you're a complete moron you KNOW most immigrants coming here from around the world wouldn't be able to live up to the expectations that you no doubt have for this criteria!!! Why the false front of tolerance??? Stop lying to yourself and us and just say you want the borders all but closed!!! That's the only thing that makes sense if you're truly being inclusive with that criteria and not just targeting Latin American, right????

[Barnaby Jones]

And holy shit, I forgot about the NPR link!

OK, follow me on this: "poverty is the primary cause of crime!"

WF: "Oh yeah?!?! Well, here's a link that says recessions and depressions don't cause increases in crime!!"

Brilliant!!! He really can't see the difference between what that article is talking about and how most crime is caused by people BORN INTO THE LOWER ECONOMIC LEVELS. Keep on truckin, DubyaEff!!!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

More spin from DubyaEff!!! Nobody brought up Mexico's immigration policy!!!

And why are you so shy about saying you just want to cut off immigration???? Most immigrants seeking to relocate here couldn't even dream of being able "to prove your income, assets, liabilities, tax returns, credit score etc." Why beat around the bush? Unless you're a complete moron you KNOW most immigrants coming here from around the world wouldn't be able to live up to the expectations that you no doubt have for this criteria!!! Why the false front of tolerance??? Stop lying to yourself and us and just say you want the borders all but closed!!! That's the only thing that makes sense if you're truly being inclusive with that criteria and not just targeting Latin American, right????

SINCE WHEN IS ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION A RACE?

Holy shit, your side is obsessed with race. Its like a sickness with you.

I want people coming here that can support themselves and NOT be a burden to taxpayers. How hard is that to understand. According to your wacky theory its WF hates Mexicans. The line is old tired and worn out.

I do think we need to ease legal immigration. Not cut it off completely. I will mention this again. We already allow more than 1MM people in annually legally. With our population at 310MM how much more do you want to allow in?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

And holy shit, I forgot about the NPR link!

OK, follow me on this: "poverty is the primary cause of crime!"

WF: "Oh yeah?!?! Well, here's a link that says recessions and depressions don't cause increases in crime!!"

Brilliant!!! He really can't see the difference between what that article is talking about and how most crime is caused by people BORN INTO THE LOWER ECONOMIC LEVELS. Keep on truckin, DubyaEff!!!

And what happens with depressions and recessions. People don't move up the ladder for the most part.

Massive unemployment,foreclosures etc and where are these skyrocketing rates?

[damsamintytix]

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[foodcourtdruide]

I want people coming here that can support themselves and NOT be a burden to taxpayers.

This is simply a lie, becuase:

1. WF's initial proposals were wayyyyyyyyy more expensive than allowing the status quo.
2. WF sees absolutely no way loosening immigration laws could help taxpayers.

I'm not pretending to know what his agenda is, but it is clearly not this.

[foodcourtdruide]

And what happens with depressions and recessions. People don't move up the ladder for the most part.

Massive unemployment,foreclosures etc and where are these skyrocketing rates?

WF, barnaby is saying that a person who lives their lives in a culture of poverty is more likely to cause crime than someone who transitioned into poverty mid-life because of a recession or depression.

[Jujubees2]

SINCE WHEN IS ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION A RACE?

Holy shit, your side is obsessed with race. Its like a sickness with you.

I want people coming here that can support themselves and NOT be a burden to taxpayers. How hard is that to understand. According to your wacky theory its WF hates Mexicans. The line is old tired and worn out.

I do think we need to ease legal immigration. Not cut it off completely. I will mention this again. We already allow more than 1MM people in annually legally. With our population at 310MM how much more do you want to allow in?

How can they prove that they can support themselves here if they can't get a job because they aren't US citizens?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

How can they prove that they can support themselves here if they can't get a job because they aren't US citizens?

Not every person coming here legally is dirt poor.

Look at people from developing countries like India and the Philippines for example. They are in the technology and medical field respectively.


For unskilled workers, theres a guest worker program and thats how it should be. Guests. After the season is over go back to your specific country and reapply to come here

[WRESTLINGFAN]

WF, barnaby is saying that a person who lives their lives in a culture of poverty is more likely to cause crime than someone who transitioned into poverty mid-life because of a recession or depression.

Someone coming here from Guatemala or Haiti gives him carte blanche to commit crimes? Its common sense to know that youre not supposed to commit a crime especially if youre here illegally.

Being poor is no excuse to steal

[WRESTLINGFAN]

This is simply a lie, becuase:

1. WF's initial proposals were wayyyyyyyyy more expensive than allowing the status quo.
2. WF sees absolutely no way loosening immigration laws could help taxpayers.

I'm not pretending to know what his agenda is, but it is clearly not this.

How is that possible when you have an increased supply of people competing with American citizens for jobs ?

With increased immigration, especially illegal the schools and prisons become overcrowded thus killing the taxpayer. In CA they want to realease 40+K prisoners, many of them are illegals

[foodcourtdruide]

Someone coming here from Guatemala or Haiti gives him carte blanche to commit crimes? Its common sense to know that youre not supposed to commit a crime especially if youre here illegally.

Being poor is no excuse to steal

What are you talking about? Do you honestly think mine or barnaby's point is that people from Guatemala or Haiti have carte blanche to commit crimes?

We're trying to explain to you that criminal behavior has more to do with socio-economic status than immigration status, and the lack of crime spikes during a recession doesn't necessarily prove us wrong.

[foodcourtdruide]

How is that possible when you have an increased supply of people competing with American citizens for jobs ?

With increased immigration, especially illegal the schools and prisons become overcrowded thus killing the taxpayer. In CA they want to realease 40+K prisoners, many of them are illegals

So you see no way that illegal immigrants benefit this country financially? None at all?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

What are you talking about? Do you honestly think mine or barnaby's point is that people from Guatemala or Haiti have carte blanche to commit crimes?

We're trying to explain to you that criminal behavior has more to do with socio-economic status than immigration status, and the lack of crime spikes during a recession doesn't necessarily prove us wrong.

Where are Haitians and Guatemalans on the socio economic scale ?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

So you see no way that illegal immigrants benefit this country financially? None at all?

How so? Cheap lettuce?

The very little they contribute is miniscule on how much they take from us

And if they left A head wouldnt skyrocket to $20

[foodcourtdruide]

How so? Cheap lettuce?

The very little they contribute is miniscule on how much they take from us

And if they left A head wouldnt skyrocket to $20

Then why do articles like this exist?
http://www.newsweek.com/2010/05/14/why-americans-think-wrongly-that-illegal-immigrants-hurt-the-economy.html

I'm not saying they are a negative or positive, but your hyperbolic statement is just incorrect and the only reason you make it is to advance your own agenda.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Then why do articles like this exist?
http://www.newsweek.com/2010/05/14/why-americans-think-wrongly-that-illegal-immigrants-hurt-the-economy.html

I'm not saying they are a negative or positive, but your hyperbolic statement is just incorrect and the only reason you make it is to advance your own agenda.

And that article isn't advancing his own agenda?

He is still making excuses for people coming here illegally. A lot of illegals who pay federal income taxes get more in return thru Tax credits like EITC.

Ive posted the FAIR estimate of illegals costing taxpayers over 100 billion annually. Most of it is to the states but in the end it is still a net loss.


Since when is enforcing the law an agenda?

[hanso]

http://i.imgur.com/QGYfE.jpg

They made it a video game. Hey WF you want this?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

http://i.imgur.com/QGYfE.jpg

They made it a video game. Hey WF you want this?

If youre outraged over that then show your anger against GTA where you can beat up hookers

[foodcourtdruide]

And that article isn't advancing his own agenda?

He is still making excuses for people coming here illegally. A lot of illegals who pay federal income taxes get more in return thru Tax credits like EITC.

Ive posted the FAIR estimate of illegals costing taxpayers over 100 billion annually. Most of it is to the states but in the end it is still a net loss.


Since when is enforcing the law an agenda?

My point is that you are making an hyperbolic statement to advance your agenda, not what is correct or incorrect.

Also, you don't post about any other law being enforced except this one. I think it's really insincere for you to say that enforcing the law is the reason for your position. I wish you'd just be honest.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

My point is that you are making an hyperbolic statement to advance your agenda, not what is correct or incorrect.

Also, you don't post about any other law being enforced except this one. I think it's really insincere for you to say that enforcing the law is the reason for your position. I wish you'd just be honest.



Therer arent 20 million rapists, murderers or bank robbers but there are 20 million illegals.

Laws are enforced all the time. Why should illegal immigration be an exception?

[foodcourtdruide]

Therer arent 20 million rapists, murderers or bank robbers but there are 20 million illegals.

Laws are enforced all the time. Why should illegal immigration be an exception?

Because draconian enforcement of immigration laws would ultimately be more destructive to our society than it would be beneficial. The same reason traffic laws should not be enforced 100%, the same reason hundreds of other laws should not be enforced 100%.

I think sometimes you believe the people arguing with you are some type of faceless liberal talking point.

[foodcourtdruide]

Therer arent 20 million rapists, murderers or bank robbers but there are 20 million illegals.

Laws are enforced all the time. Why should illegal immigration be an exception?

Also, how many pot smokers do you think there are? Come on WF, "the law" is not the reason you are so anti-illegal immigrant. That's insulting that you'd say so.

[hanso]

If youre outraged over that then show your anger against GTA where you can beat up hookers

I will take that as a no then.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Also, how many pot smokers do you think there are? Come on WF, "the law" is not the reason you are so anti-illegal immigrant. That's insulting that you'd say so.

Youre comparing pot smoking to illegal immigration? Thats a huge stretch

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Because draconian enforcement of immigration laws would ultimately be more destructive to our society than it would be beneficial. The same reason traffic laws should not be enforced 100%, the same reason hundreds of other laws should not be enforced 100%.

I think sometimes you believe the people arguing with you are some type of faceless liberal talking point.

Someone driving 10MPH over the speed limit doesnt compare to a foreigner taking advantage of our welfare, prison, education and healthcare system

Illegal immigration is a much bigger issue than me doing 70 on the FDR.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Hyperbole is saying that because someone is brown they are going to get harassed for going to get ice cream like Obama said.


This issue is one topic that most people in the country agree with Its not like medicare, taxes where its mainly on party lines. Illegal immigration is a serious problem and do not offer amnesty

[foodcourtdruide]

Youre comparing pot smoking to illegal immigration? Thats a huge stretch

Absolutely not. Especially when you talk about impact on the taxpayer. I'm pretty sure the cost of the "War on Drugs" eclipses any potentially negative impact illegal immigrants have on our economy.

[foodcourtdruide]

Someone driving 10MPH over the speed limit doesnt compare to a foreigner taking advantage of our welfare, prison, education and healthcare system

Illegal immigration is a much bigger issue than me doing 70 on the FDR.

Why? I'm pretty sure wreckless driving has been responsible for more deaths in this country than illegal immigration. This is just a matter of perspective.

[foodcourtdruide]

Hyperbole is saying that because someone is brown they are going to get harassed for going to get ice cream like Obama said.


This issue is one topic that most people in the country agree with Its not like medicare, taxes where its mainly on party lines. Illegal immigration is a serious problem and do not offer amnesty

I don't know what any of these comments have to do with the rest of our conversation.

[Snacks]

Why? I'm pretty sure wreckless driving has been responsible for more deaths in this country than illegal immigration. This is just a matter of perspective.

first of all that argument is stupid because going 70 mph in a 60 isnt wreckless driving. So by that alone youre wrong. But lets look at it seriously even drunk driving and real speeding like 60 in a 35 etc still probably doesnt equal the deaths of illegal immigration. 1st all the deaths of the illegals that try to come here and die on the way would be part of that stat and so would illegals who drive drunk and wreckless. Then you would add all the crime and murder caused by illegals. I would bet everything that illegal immigration in all its form has caused more deaths then wreckless driving.

[foodcourtdruide]

first of all that argument is stupid because going 70 mph in a 60 isnt wreckless driving. So by that alone youre wrong. But lets look at it seriously even drunk driving and real speeding like 60 in a 35 etc still probably doesnt equal the deaths of illegal immigration. 1st all the deaths of the illegals that try to come here and die on the way would be part of that stat and so would illegals who drive drunk and wreckless. Then you would add all the crime and murder caused by illegals. I would bet everything that illegal immigration in all its form has caused more deaths then wreckless driving.

I would take that bet. I'll do some research on it later.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Why? I'm pretty sure wreckless driving has been responsible for more deaths in this country than illegal immigration. This is just a matter of perspective.

A lot of illegal aliens are driving recklessly. Many of them have killed Americans by driving drunk If one hits your car who are you going to sue? Now if youre hurt by a citizen they have insurance.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I don't know what any of these comments have to do with the rest of our conversation.

It has to do with everything. Granting amnesty only encourages more illegal immigration. Its been tried over and over again. We didnt get to 20 million overnight

[SonOfSmeagol]

Because draconian enforcement of immigration laws would ultimately be more destructive to our society than it would be beneficial. The same reason traffic laws should not be enforced 100%, the same reason hundreds of other laws should not be enforced 100%.

I think sometimes you believe the people arguing with you are some type of faceless liberal talking point.

Just get to the point and make your case FOR illegal immigration and settle this once and for all.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Wikileaks show the reason for open borders


http://www.alipac.us/article-6304-thread-1-0.html

[Syd]

Capital would vastly prefer for Mexico to remain an independent nation due to the established nature of the haves and have-nots. Bringing them into the fold of a first world country would cause an immediate demand for extra services which would invariably lead to higher wages demanded by workers.

[foodcourtdruide]

Just get to the point and make your case FOR illegal immigration and settle this once and for all.

I am not FOR illegal immigration. I am for a sane solution to the immigration problems in this country that does not include mass deportation of hard working people to appease xenophobes.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Mexico is not a poor country as it has the 13th largest GDP in the world. Furthermore it has vast amounts of resources, a high literacy and life expectancy rate, low infant mortality rates for example.


The Mexicans have a corruption problem within their government. They need to fix their own mess not bring it across the border. Comparing Mexico to sub Saharan Africa doesnt validate arguements for illegal aliens coming over.

[foodcourtdruide]

A lot of illegal aliens are driving recklessly. Many of them have killed Americans by driving drunk If one hits your car who are you going to sue? Now if youre hurt by a citizen they have insurance.

This is a nonsense comment. A lot of non-illegal aliens drive recklessly too.

[foodcourtdruide]

It has to do with everything. Granting amnesty only encourages more illegal immigration. Its been tried over and over again. We didnt get to 20 million overnight

Great. If you were arguing with a group of people promoting mass amnesty then I'd understand why you said this.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I am not FOR illegal immigration. I am for a sane solution to the immigration problems in this country that does not include mass deportation of hard working people to appease xenophobes.




Mass deportations is too costly, but cutting off the incentives for them both on the supply and demand, and non emergency services is a way to have attrition thru practical enforcement.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I am not FOR illegal immigration. I am for a sane solution to the immigration problems in this country that does not include mass deportation of hard working people to appease xenophobes.

This would be valid if you were arguing with someone who wanted to hunt down brown people

[WRESTLINGFAN]

This is a nonsense comment. A lot of non-illegal aliens drive recklessly too.

Agreed but you can sue a citizen who has insurance. An illegal hits you youre SOL

[foodcourtdruide]

first of all that argument is stupid because going 70 mph in a 60 isnt wreckless driving. So by that alone youre wrong. But lets look at it seriously even drunk driving and real speeding like 60 in a 35 etc still probably doesnt equal the deaths of illegal immigration. 1st all the deaths of the illegals that try to come here and die on the way would be part of that stat and so would illegals who drive drunk and wreckless. Then you would add all the crime and murder caused by illegals. I would bet everything that illegal immigration in all its form has caused more deaths then wreckless driving.

Ok Snacks.
http://www.centurycouncil.org/learn-the-facts/drunk-driving-research

"10,839 people who died in alcohol-impaired driving crashes."

Seriously, do I have to do more research? Do I have to research non-alcohol related reckless driving deaths? Sorry for not knowing exactly what reckless driving is, since you seem to be some sort of expect, would you agree drunk driving is part of it?

Can you prove illegal immigrants killed over 10,000 people in 2010?

Here's some help with your reasearch:
According to the United States Border Patrol, 1,954 people died crossing the U.S–Mexico border between the years 1998-2004
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Migrant_deaths_along_the_Mexico_%E2%80%93_United_S tates_border

That's 7 years.

So, anyway, back to my original point: if you were really concerned about safety of Americans you'd be much more focused on decreasing road related deaths caused by reckless driving than you would be on a crusade against illegal immigrants.

[foodcourtdruide]

This would be valid if you were arguing with someone who wanted to hunt down brown people

That is such BS. You have been promoting draconian measures against illegal immigrants on this board and accusing them of being much more of a burden on society than they really are. 90% of your posts are articles about illegal immigrants that have committed crimes. You are on some bizarre crusade against illegal immigrants.

[foodcourtdruide]

Mass deportations is too costly, but cutting off the incentives for them both on the supply and demand, and non emergency services is a way to have attrition thru practical enforcement.

Or finding ways to allow a cheap labor force come into this county that's mutually beneficial to both our society and the individual.. whatever.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

How many of those fatalities involved people who are here illegally.? You also have to factor the per capita rates of drunk driving deaths by illegal aliens. They might be less than 10% of the population but when included in those number the rates can get alarming


Theres also the fact that if they were not here , more people would be alive. I know that always wants to be danced around but theres no way around that

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Or finding ways to allow a cheap labor force come into this county that's mutually beneficial to both our society and the individual.. whatever.

Im all for a legal guest worker program. Unskilled labor is needed agreed. They can get paid a somewhat decent wage and not be a quasi indentured servant. It puts responsibility on the employer, thats something we all can agree on

[Snacks]

Ok Snacks.
http://www.centurycouncil.org/learn-the-facts/drunk-driving-research

"10,839 people who died in alcohol-impaired driving crashes."

Seriously, do I have to do more research? Do I have to research non-alcohol related reckless driving deaths? Sorry for not knowing exactly what reckless driving is, since you seem to be some sort of expect, would you agree drunk driving is part of it?

Can you prove illegal immigrants killed over 10,000 people in 2010?

Here's some help with your reasearch:
According to the United States Border Patrol, 1,954 people died crossing the U.S–Mexico border between the years 1998-2004
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Migrant_deaths_along_the_Mexico_%E2%80%93_United_S tates_border

That's 7 years.

So, anyway, back to my original point: if you were really concerned about safety of Americans you'd be much more focused on decreasing road related deaths caused by reckless driving than you would be on a crusade against illegal immigrants.

and of those 10,000 people that died in car accidents how many of those were from illegals or had illegals involved? Also the argument was about deaths and illegal immigrants meaning all deaths, murders, drug overdoses etc. So you still didnt prove anything nor do you have to because Im not doing research to look up #s either.

and the concern isnt just deaths its other things like health care, other crimes, jobs for those that come here, learning the language, having car insurance, overpopulation, healthcare etc. Its not just 1 issue. How many illegals are in american jails not for crossing the border but for other serious crimes?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

That is such BS. You have been promoting draconian measures against illegal immigrants on this board and accusing them of being much more of a burden on society than they really are. 90% of your posts are articles about illegal immigrants that have committed crimes. You are on some bizarre crusade against illegal immigrants.

Draconian measures would be stopping people just because they are a certain skin color without probable cause.


I never called for cops to just go up to people and ask veahhh ahhh zee paperz ?

Now if theres a minivan with a busted taillight going 30MPH over the limit. The driver stops and the van has 30 people in it, no one speaks english including the driver and no drivers lic or registration, that is probable cause.



Denying them non emergency services, closing the anchor baby loophole and not giving them jobs and cracking down on the employers is a sensible way of dealing with them

[WRESTLINGFAN]

This shows the proportions of illegal aliens killing and maiming Americans. They based this out a population of 15mm illegal aliens


http://www.trafficaa.com/2010/09/22/how-many-americans-are-being-killed-in-traffic-accidents-by-illegal-aliens.html

"However, as previously noted, the data suggests that the proportional involvement of illegal aliens is far higher. As noted in Not all Hit and Run Accident Victims Die, often the injuries are often crippling, life long, and require many years of treatments and hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars in medical costs".

[foodcourtdruide]

This shows the proportions of illegal aliens killing and maiming Americans. They based this out a population of 15mm illegal aliens


http://www.trafficaa.com/2010/09/22/how-many-americans-are-being-killed-in-traffic-accidents-by-illegal-aliens.html

"However, as previously noted, the data suggests that the proportional involvement of illegal aliens is far higher. As noted in Not all Hit and Run Accident Victims Die, often the injuries are often crippling, life long, and require many years of treatments and hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars in medical costs".

This is your proof? An article that doesn't provide a solid number,but a theory, then makes a statement that proves your point without any actual proof? Why didn't you just post one of your own previous posts?

Even if what this article says is true (5% of reckless driving incidents are caused by illegal immigrants), my earlier point is still valid. If you were concerned with "the safety of americans" or whatever bumper sticker you'd be much more supportive with draconian enforcement of driving laws than you would draconian enforcement of illegal immigration.

[foodcourtdruide]

Denying them non emergency services, closing the anchor baby loophole and not giving them jobs and cracking down on the employers is a sensible way of dealing with them

Ok, this is what you believe? Then why do you constantly post stories that put illegal immigrants in a bad light? What does an illegal immigrant committing a crime have ANYTHING to do with any of these solutions?

[StanUpshaw]

This shows the proportions of illegal aliens killing and maiming Americans. They based this out a population of 15mm illegal aliens


http://www.trafficaa.com/2010/09/22/how-many-americans-are-being-killed-in-traffic-accidents-by-illegal-aliens.html

"However, as previously noted, the data suggests that the proportional involvement of illegal aliens is far higher. As noted in Not all Hit and Run Accident Victims Die, often the injuries are often crippling, life long, and require many years of treatments and hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars in medical costs".

Have to agree with fcd on this one. Those guesses don't mean anything. It would be like saying the Drake Equation proves extra-terrestrial intelligence.

Your mantra is always "enforce the laws that are on the books". If the problem that you're presenting is that people are needlessly dying because of unlicensed drivers, then I would agree with you. However, focusing on one-twentieth of that problem seems pretty stupid.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Have to agree with fcd on this one. Those guesses don't mean anything. It would be like saying the Drake Equation proves extra-terrestrial intelligence.

Your mantra is always "enforce the laws that are on the books". If the problem that you're presenting is that people are needlessly dying because of unlicensed drivers, then I would agree with you. However, focusing on one-twentieth of that problem seems pretty stupid.

That Report was based on estimates. The illegal alien population isn't set in stone. The govt says there are about 12mm but they always underestimate. I believe it's 20mm. The point is that in regards to driving an illegal is less likely to have insurance.


It's not just their reckless driving, it's the economic damage they do which is astronomical.


Illegal aliens broke the law the second they came across the border

[StanUpshaw]

That Report was based on estimates. The illegal alien population isn't set in stone. The govt says there are about 12mm but they always underestimate. I believe it's 20mm. The point is that in regards to driving an illegal is less likely to have insurance.
Anyone who drives without insurance is a problem. Again, focusing on one sliver of the pie is stupid.

It's not just their reckless driving, it's the economic damage they do which is astronomical.

Poor people have a degree of drain on the state, but the economy reaps huge benefits from having an ample supply of cheap labor. Find me a paper -- NOT A BLOG (http://www.ssrn.com/) -- that reaches the same conclusion you have.

Illegal aliens broke the law the second they came across the border
Enough with this. You don't give a fuck about the law. The only time it's supposedly sacrosanct is when it's convenient for your ideology.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

A blog means nothing ? How so if it has sources to back up it's arguenents. Again if I hit your car you can sue my INS. Company. How is it that I don't care about the law? I know robbing a bank is against the law so I will not do that

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Ok, this is what you believe? Then why do you constantly post stories that put illegal immigrants in a bad light? What does an illegal immigrant committing a crime have ANYTHING to do with any of these solutions?

Because having illegal aliens in this country to the tune of millions of people is not beneficial to the country. If these people would have stayed in their country those crimes would have not been committed.

Having all these people puts a strain on schools, hospitals, prisoms and infrastructure. Also the fact that millions of anchor babies have been born that takes more from the taxpayer in the form of entitlements, education, healthcare etc. This is rewarding them for violating our laws.

Thats like a cop pulling you over for a DWI stop then buying you a 6 pack after you post bail

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Have to agree with fcd on this one. Those guesses don't mean anything. It would be like saying the Drake Equation proves extra-terrestrial intelligence.

Your mantra is always "enforce the laws that are on the books". If the problem that you're presenting is that people are needlessly dying because of unlicensed drivers, then I would agree with you. However, focusing on one-twentieth of that problem seems pretty stupid.

Its not just people dying from unlicensed drivers, thats just part of it. Theres also the other factors of having millions of illegals here.

[StanUpshaw]

A blog means nothing ? How so if it has sources to back up it's arguenents.
Do I really have to explain the difference between something written on wetbackwatch.com and something written in an academic journal?

Again if I hit your car you can sue my INS. Company.
It's a problem...one not limited by citizenship status. Explain why focusing on the 5-10% of the offenders makes any sense.

How is it that I don't care about the law? I know robbing a bank is against the law so I will not do that
But the reason that you don't rob the bank is not because robbery is listed in some big brown law book. The mere fact that your representatives passed a piece of legislation has no bearing on whether or not you support -- or even follow -- any particular law.

Your actions are decided upon a risk-benefit calculation of getting caught, as well as your personal ethical inclinations.

If you actually cared about The Law as some sort of sacred dicta (like you pretend it is when it comes to immigration), you would never knowingly speed or jaywalk because doing so would be against The Law.

I'm willing to bet you can't make that claim, so that is what I mean about you not caring about the law.

[StanUpshaw]

Its not just people dying from unlicensed drivers, thats just part of it. Theres also the other factors of having millions of illegals here.

Then pick a factor, and let's debate it. You're so afraid of actually backing up your beliefs. You always post some article, people shoot it down, then you do your impression of the Gish Gallop and bring up a dozen other subjects.

Pick your best line of reasoning and actually defend it against criticism.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Do I really have to explain the difference between something written on wetbackwatch.com and something written in an academic journal?


It's a problem...one not limited by citizenship status. Explain why focusing on the 5-10% of the offenders makes any sense.


But the reason that you don't rob the bank is not because robbery is listed in some big brown law book. The mere fact that your representatives passed a piece of legislation has no bearing on whether or not you support -- or even follow -- any particular law.

Your actions are decided upon a risk-benefit calculation of getting caught, as well as your personal ethical inclinations.

If you actually cared about The Law as some sort of sacred dicta (like you pretend it is when it comes to immigration), you would never knowingly speed or jaywalk because doing so would be against The Law.

I'm willing to bet you can't make that claim, so that is what I mean about you not caring about the law.

I know the difference btwn what someone in Harvard writes and someone with FAIR writes. Im saying that the FAIR articles shouldnt be dismissed because the writer might not have an ivy league degree. He goes out and does his research too.

In regards to driving its the illegal who is more likely not to have the insurance. I agree that unlicensed drivers are a problem but the bulk of them are illegals


Jaywalking isn't as serious as someone coming here illegally which has a snowball effect

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Then pick a factor, and let's debate it. You're so afraid of actually backing up your beliefs. You always post some article, people shoot it down, then you do your impression of the Gish Gallop and bring up a dozen other subjects.

Pick your best line of reasoning and actually defend it against criticism.

Im not afraid to back up my beliefs at all. I'' argue that illegal aliens put a strain on our already out of control entitlement system. They are being rewarded with a loophole for birthright citizenship which opens the door to medicaid, welfare, section 8 housing, etc etc.


Why should someone who knowingly broke the law be rewarded with anything they dont deserve?

[hanso]

Because having illegal aliens in this country to the tune of millions of people is not beneficial to the country. If these people would have stayed in their country those crimes would have not been committed.

Having all these people puts a strain on schools, hospitals, prisoms and infrastructure. Also the fact that millions of anchor babies have been born that takes more from the taxpayer in the form of entitlements, education, healthcare etc. This is rewarding them for violating our laws.

Thats like a cop pulling you over for a DWI stop then buying you a 6 pack after you post bail

Millions, don't you mean trillions? If all this was taken care of. And they just keep coming, then wouldn't our tax burden be at least doubled?

With this new bill the cops are on top of it right? (And why stop there? Let's give local police all federal powers).

[foodcourtdruide]

If you actually cared about The Law as some sort of sacred dicta (like you pretend it is when it comes to immigration), you would never knowingly speed or jaywalk because doing so would be against The Law.

I'm willing to bet you can't make that claim, so that is what I mean about you not caring about the law.

This sums up what I was trying to say much better than I ever could. It's clearly not about "the law". It's only about the law because it supports WF's beliefs.

[foodcourtdruide]

A blog means nothing ? How so if it has sources to back up it's arguenents. Again if I hit your car you can sue my INS. Company. How is it that I don't care about the law? I know robbing a bank is against the law so I will not do that

This is a pretty good example of why you care more about supporting your ideology than what's best for society.

If you really cared about more people having insurance, you'd allow illegal aliens to obtain drivers licenses and car insurance. This is a much easier, feasible tactic than counting on strict/unrealistic enforcement of illegal immigration. However, you'd never support that because you don't care about what's best for society, you only care about your agenda.

So, the result is that more people are driving without insurance, and illegal immigrants don't have the "luxury" of having a drivers license or insurance.

Congratulations WF, you have just cut off your nose to spite your face.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

This sums up what I was trying to say much better than I ever could. It's clearly not about "the law". It's only about the law because it supports WF's beliefs.



No you dont. Youre awarding people with privliges. Driving isn't a right. What you do is you allow people to sue the illegals landlord, if hes driving a landscaping truck for example, sue the employer


They dont make enough in order to get insurance granting them licenses will only put more of them on our roads, leaving Americans holding the bag when they are involved in accidents. Sure lets allow more of them on already congested roads and streets


Giving them licenses will allow them to get other services, and even allow voter fraud

Giving more incentives to illegals only encourages more of the same. Cut the incentives and they will leave.

[foodcourtdruide]

Does Jaywalking affect 310MM other people ?

In its own ways it does. There's the cost of enforcement, the medical costs associated with accidents, etc.

I like that you're focusing on jaywalking, becuase you can't possibly even begin to make the argument that speeding/reckless driving or illegal drugs have less of an impact than illegal immigration.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

In its own ways it does. There's the cost of enforcement, the medical costs associated with accidents, etc.

I like that you're focusing on jaywalking, becuase you can't possibly even begin to make the argument that speeding/reckless driving or illegal drugs have less of an impact than illegal immigration.

I dont think theres a huge jaywalking problem in the country


What about having an extra 20 million people who can potentially cause accidents, murder, rape etc.

[foodcourtdruide]

What about having an extra 20 million people who can cause accidents, murder, rape etc.

This is such a losing argument, WF. Just stop. Do you want a population cap, because the less people that exist the less people that are likely to murder someone? This is crazy talk.

[hanso]

Because having illegal aliens in this country to the tune of millions of people is not beneficial to the country. If these people would have stayed in their country those crimes would have not been committed.

Having all these people puts a strain on schools, hospitals, prisoms and infrastructure. Also the fact that millions of anchor babies have been born that takes more from the taxpayer in the form of entitlements, education, healthcare etc. This is rewarding them for violating our laws.

Thats like a cop pulling you over for a DWI stop then buying you a 6 pack after you post bail


There are so many. If they let Scott Peterson out. He couldn't even take his boat out on the bay.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

This is such a losing argument, WF. Just stop. Do you want a population cap, because the less people that exist the less people that are likely to murder someone? This is crazy talk.



Coming to this country is not a right. There is a way to apply and get processed. Now if you want to streamline the process for legal immigration and kill the red tape we can have a discussion about that.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

There are so many. If they let Scott Peterson out. He couldn't even take his boat out on the bay.

5MM is just a drop in the bucket, youre so right

[foodcourtdruide]

Coming to this country is not a right. There is a way to apply and get processed. Now if you want to streamline the process for legal immigration and kill the red tape we can have a discussion about that.

Don't you understand this is what I want? Instead of fighting an absurd losing battle against something that debatably has a negative impact on us, why don't we rid ourselves of social dogmas and do what's best for our country?

[hanso]

Those darn burdensome anchor babies & the dream act! Look what this one went and did.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/raul-a-reyes/son-of-mexican-immigrants_b_857118.html

[hanso]

5MM is just a drop in the bucket, youre so right

Dare I ask, where do get these stats? I see no hard stats in google only op-eds.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Dare I ask, where do get these stats? I see no hard stats in google only op-eds.



Pew Hispanic center

[Dudeman]

Originally Posted by WRESTLINGFAN
Coming to this country is not a right. There is a way to apply and get processed. Now if you want to streamline the process for legal immigration and kill the red tape we can have a discussion about that.

Don't you understand this is what I want? Instead of fighting an absurd losing battle against something that debatably has a negative impact on us, why don't we rid ourselves of social dogmas and do what's best for our country?

x2

[hanso]

Pew Hispanic center

It seems like a hard stats to come up with (the babies) what ever the source. I don't see any on it so far. (see PS below)

However I do see something off from the stats overall you have posted

20M was your #

"There were 11.2 million unauthorized immigrants living in the United States in March 2010, virtually unchanged from a year earlier, according to new estimates from the Pew Hispanic Center. The number of unauthorized immigrants in the workforce, 8 million, also did not differ from 2009. Both the population and workforce estimates are below their 2007 peaks, apparently driven by a decline in the number of Mexicans, the largest group of unauthorized immigrants. The report also includes estimates of state populations of unauthorized immigrants and of annual births to unauthorized immigrants."
http://pewhispanic.org/reports/report.php?ReportID=133

PS looks like babies are part of the overall number of 11.2 million and if counted apart would/should bing the over number down.

[sailor]

No you dont. Youre awarding people with privliges. Driving isn't a right. What you do is you allow people to sue the illegals landlord, if hes driving a landscaping truck for example, sue the employer

no one checks citizenship to rent an apartment.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Alabama gets it right.

http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysis/Article/574515/201106061822/Alabamas-Law-On-Immigrants-Tops-Arizonas.htm

Too bad NY is becoming more of a sanctuary state in which Andrew Cuomo acting like his old man refuses to enforce the laws by dropping out of the secure communities program.

[Syd]

HB56 requires proof of citizenship or residency before voting, a giant protection against vote fraud.

Cool, voter disenfranchisement fucking rocks. This is why I hope I live long enough to see the whites become a minority so I can laugh when all this shit blows back on us.

[StanUpshaw]

Cool, voter disenfranchisement fucking rocks. This is why I hope I live long enough to see the whites become a minority so I can laugh when all this shit blows back on us.

That's certainly a telling statement.

[Snacks]

Cool, voter disenfranchisement fucking rocks. This is why I hope I live long enough to see the whites become a minority so I can laugh when all this shit blows back on us.

WTF does that mean? You make it seem like these laws are to prevent Americans from voting. They are to prevent undocumented people from voting and to be honest even if you are born here and dont have documentation you shouldnt be voting. You make it seem like only legal brown people wont be able to vote because of this. There will be whites who dont have proof of residents who cant vote just like there will be "minorities" with proof who can vote. Every American should have some sort of documentation by the time they are 18 to prove they are licensed to drive, to vote and pay their taxes or receive their benefits.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Cool, voter disenfranchisement fucking rocks. This is why I hope I live long enough to see the whites become a minority so I can laugh when all this shit blows back on us.




your grandkids will qualify for affirmative action.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Cool, voter disenfranchisement fucking rocks. This is why I hope I live long enough to see the whites become a minority so I can laugh when all this shit blows back on us.

Why does everything have to be a racial issue with you? Illegal aliens aren't a race. Youre talking about a very serious matter like voting.


you need ID to enter a courthouse, You need documentation ie a ticket to get into Yankee stadium and even a movie theatre. Enough with its to put down the brown people.

[Syd]

WTF does that mean? You make it seem like these laws are to prevent Americans from voting. They are to prevent undocumented people from voting and to be honest even if you are born here and dont have documentation you shouldnt be voting. You make it seem like only legal brown people wont be able to vote because of this. There will be whites who dont have proof of residents who cant vote just like there will be "minorities" with proof who can vote. Every American should have some sort of documentation by the time they are 18 to prove they are licensed to drive, to vote and pay their taxes or receive their benefits.

http://sunstateactivist.org/ssablog/2011/03/29/legislating-disenfranchisement-photo-id-laws-for-voters-advance-in-dozens-of-states/

specifically, this: http://www.truthaboutfraud.org/documents/policy_brief_voter_fraud.html


It's voter disenfranchisement that targets the poor/working class who are less likely to have state IDs due to cost/travel issues of actually getting to the DMV, as well as college crowds who, despite being eligible to vote in a particular area, are denied the opportunity due to lack of local state ID and last but not least metro areas that has vastly more voters than actual drivers licenses.

Last but not least, it is a race thing. Illegal aliens are anyone that's a bit swarthy. White people won't be asked to verify ID (I sure as shit wasn't when I registered to vote in the county ot the polling place near me in 2008) or they'd flip the fuck out like they are with the TSA. They're fine having that stuff done to anyone that looks vaguely Arabic but woah, hold the horses, not us WASPs! Same shit applies to voter disenfranchisement rules, but with a bit more tact.

If anyone gave a shit about the sanctity of voting there'd be more investigations/oversight with voting machines instead of no-bid contracts with Diebold.

[Snacks]

http://sunstateactivist.org/ssablog/2011/03/29/legislating-disenfranchisement-photo-id-laws-for-voters-advance-in-dozens-of-states/

specifically, this: http://www.truthaboutfraud.org/documents/policy_brief_voter_fraud.html


It's voter disenfranchisement that targets the poor/working class who are less likely to have state IDs due to cost/travel issues of actually getting to the DMV, as well as college crowds who, despite being eligible to vote in a particular area, are denied the opportunity due to lack of local state ID and last but not least metro areas that has vastly more voters than actual drivers licenses.

Last but not least, it is a race thing. Illegal aliens are anyone that's a bit swarthy. White people won't be asked to verify ID (I sure as shit wasn't when I registered to vote in the county ot the polling place near me in 2008) or they'd flip the fuck out like they are with the TSA. They're fine having that stuff done to anyone that looks vaguely Arabic but woah, hold the horses, not us WASPs! Same shit applies to voter disenfranchisement rules, but with a bit more tact.

If anyone gave a shit about the sanctity of voting there'd be more investigations/oversight with voting machines instead of no-bid contracts with Diebold.

Im asked every time I vote to show my ID. Every single person in this country should have some form of ID. Unless you hiding something everyone can get proof of who they are. I think you can even get a county ID for free so thats just an excuse to separate and use race baiting for another issue. Everyone can get a cellphone then everyone can get an ID. Its not hard and if you cant get somewhere to get an ID chances are you werent going out to vote anyway. And if you were going to send in an absentee ballot then you need to prove who you are first just to get that absentee ballot, if not then we could have millions of fraud absentee ballots.

I really dont get this argument about IDs., everyone in America over 18 needs to prove who they are and under 18 should too. Schools give IDs for free, lets pass a law that pays for those who cant afford them if they arent already free. This way there is no excuse.

[Jujubees2]

Why does everything have to be a racial issue with you? Illegal aliens aren't a race. Youre talking about a very serious matter like voting.


you need ID to enter a courthouse, You need documentation ie a ticket to get into Yankee stadium and even a movie theatre. Enough with its to put down the brown people.

Um, no you don't. I was on jury duty for four weeks and never was asked for ID to enter the courthouse nor was anyone else. And the reason you need a ticket to get into Yankee Stadium is because they charge admission. Last time I checked they don't charge you to vote (at least not yet).

As a Libertarian I would think that you would be against imposing restrictions on our freedoms. I don't remember the constitution stating that all citizens must carry a form of ID.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Um, no you don't. I was on jury duty for four weeks and never was asked for ID to enter the courthouse nor was anyone else. And the reason you need a ticket to get into Yankee Stadium is because they charge admission. Last time I checked they don't charge you to vote (at least not yet).

As a Libertarian I would think that you would be against imposing restrictions on our freedoms. I don't remember the constitution stating that all citizens must carry a form of ID.

Im against cops just going up to people and asking for ID without probable cause. I dont want a police state but if someone is driving 100MPH and swerving on the pkwy and gets pulled over, then asking for drivers lic insurance registration is proper procedure

Lets say Im doing 75 in a 65 and I dont have my license. They can run a scan thru the system and see that I have a valid license.


In regards to non citizens, thats a different story. according to federal law they must carry at all times. So that means any alien who is stopped for probable cause must have them
I will reiterate cops shouldnt stop some short brown person on the street just to fuck with them and harass them


http://www.ehow.com/list_7490474_rules-carrying-immigration-papers.html

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Um, no you don't. I was on jury duty for four weeks and never was asked for ID to enter the courthouse nor was anyone else. And the reason you need a ticket to get into Yankee Stadium is because they charge admission. Last time I checked they don't charge you to vote (at least not yet).

As a Libertarian I would think that you would be against imposing restrictions on our freedoms. I don't remember the constitution stating that all citizens must carry a form of ID.

Going to a yankee game doesnt affect anyone. Voting does however. I am not saying that there should be a fee, however when people vote it affects fiscal policy social policy domestic and foreign issues. Do you want just anyone to vote. There are a lot of 16 and 17 yr olds who can pass for 18, having ID to vote is not discrimination

[Jujubees2]

Going to a yankee game doesnt affect anyone. Voting does however. I am not saying that there should be a fee, however when people vote it affects fiscal policy social policy domestic and foreign issues. Do you want just anyone to vote. There are a lot of 16 and 17 yr olds who can pass for 18, having ID to vote is not discrimination

But you have to register to vote. You don't just walk in off the street and say I want to vote.

[foodcourtdruide]

But you have to register to vote. You don't just walk in off the street and say I want to vote.

He's beating around the bush, but WF believes not everyone in this country is qualified to vote, this actually goes beyond immigration status.

[Jujubees2]

Going to a yankee game doesnt affect anyone. Voting does however. I am not saying that there should be a fee, however when people vote it affects fiscal policy social policy domestic and foreign issues. Do you want just anyone to vote. There are a lot of 16 and 17 yr olds who can pass for 18, having ID to vote is not discrimination

And while I want only those we are legally eligible to vote, yes, I want MORE people to exercise their right to vote. I think it's pitiful that is some elections the percentage in below 40%. Even in the past 2010 election only 41.5% of eligible voters actually voted.

And unless a state provides free ID to all citizens it is discrimination to require an ID to vote.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

And while I want only those we are legally eligible to vote, yes, I want MORE people to exercise their right to vote. I think it's pitiful that is some elections the percentage in below 40%. Even in the past 2010 election only 41.5% of eligible voters actually voted.

And unless a state provides free ID to all citizens it is discrimination to require an ID to vote.

Some people just dont care about politics and that will never change. Voting is more than pulling a lever for the most popular person or if he or she fits someones specific identity. Sad to say a lot of people vote identity politics. Example Everyone in my neighborhood voted for Mario Cuomo because he had an italian 1st and last name.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

He's beating around the bush, but WF believes not everyone in this country is qualified to vote, this actually goes beyond immigration status.

In many ways yes. Just because someone is 18 and has a pulse shouldnt give them carte blanche to vote.

Would you want some hardcore male evangelical to pull the lever to ban abortion without looking at both sides of the issue? Over time an infomed electorate might change his position on this.

[foodcourtdruide]

In many ways yes. Just because someone is 18 and has a pulse shouldnt give them carte blanche to vote.

Would you want some hardcore male evangelical to pull the lever to ban abortion without looking at both sides of the issue? Over time an infomed electorate might change his position on this.

Yes I would. Though I don't agree with him, he is representative of a segment of our society. That is democracy.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Yes I would. Though I don't agree with him, he is representative of a segment of our society. That is democracy.

With rights comes responsibilities something like abortion is a serious matter especially to women. I think someone being against abortion or gay marriage because his pastor says it is, shows some irresponsibility and ignorance on part of the voter.


People should make some case why they are for or against an issue or policy. One scenario might be that someone had an abortion at age 16 and had left her emotionally distraught for years and she had regrets about it and now shes pro life.

People change their opinions on issues as they get older or if something happens to them like having an abortion etc. On some issues they might have their views set in stone but change their views also on other topics


On illegal immigration do you want someone voting against amnesty because they hate mexicans or someone who looks at the economic, fiscal social services entitlements implication.


I will submit that there are fringe people who just hate brown people but most people look at the factors and base their views on that.

[foodcourtdruide]

With rights comes responsibilities something like abortion is a serious matter especially to women. I think someone being against abortion or gay marriage because his pastor says it is, shows some irresponsibility and ignorance on part of the voter.


People should make some case why they are for or against an issue or policy. One scenario might be that someone had an abortion at age 16 and had left her emotionally distraught for years and she had regrets about it and now shes pro life.

People change their opinions on issues as they get older or if something happens to them like having an abortion etc. On some issues they might have their views set in stone but change their views also on other topics


On illegal immigration do you want someone voting against amnesty because they hate mexicans or someone who looks at the economic, fiscal social services entitlements implication.


I will submit that there are fringe people who just hate brown people but most people look at the factors and base their views on that.

I don't want society to decide if someone should be able to vote based on the integrity of their arguments. Not only do I object to that based on my beliefs in what democracy is and what it should be, I think it's completely impractical.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I don't want society to decide if someone should be able to vote based on the integrity of their arguments. Not only do I object to that based on my beliefs in what democracy is and what it should be, I think it's completely impractical.

That opens the door for Sarah Palin to be elected if that was entirely the case. Do you want a President Palin ?

Shes a dope but shes got a huge following and is very charasmatic, in a bad way, many of her supporters are ignorant just like she is. If she can somehow mobilize more people going for her because shes a mama grizzly you betcha eye wink etc. Imagine how much damage she can do as President.

[Dudeman]

In many ways yes. Just because someone is 18 and has a pulse shouldnt give them carte blanche to vote.

Would you want some hardcore male evangelical to pull the lever to ban abortion without looking at both sides of the issue? Over time an infomed electorate might change his position on this.

Wow, I always think you can't post something even more stupid than before, but you always manage to do it.

If there is anything that defines big government, it is deciding who can and who can not vote. How, Mr. strict contstitutionalist, can that be justified by the constitution?

If we are designing a system to determine who can't vote, it is going to have to have you at or near the top of that list.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Wow, I always think you can't post something even more stupid than before, but you always manage to do it.

If there is anything that defines big government, it is deciding who can and who can not vote. How, Mr. strict contstitutionalist, can that be justified by the constitution?

If we are designing a system to determine who can't vote, it is going to have to have you at or near the top of that list.

Voting is not just a right its a responsibility. The way someone vote affects the populstion LET ME THROW IN THAT PESKY GENERAL WELFARE LINE OF THE CONSTITUTION!!! again like issues of gay rights abortion taxation etc. Do you want someone just voting because someone told him how to vote. Thats just naive.



Maybe try something like CA ?

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2004/04/25/californians_consider_granting_14_year_olds_the_ri ght_to_vote/

I would love to see your expression if by chance Palin did win based on that everyone should vote no matter what.

You dont want a well educated electorate? An informed electorate contributes to a better democratic republic. We all know not everyone is well educated. A lot of people dont know who the VP or their rep in congress or event heir 2 Senators are

In your utopia you would want to take that right away from me


I know this will make you irate but the 17th ammendment should be repealed. Having popular elections for senators should not be left for the people, that should only be for the H.O.R.

[TripleSkeet]

That opens the door for Sarah Palin to be elected if that was entirely the case. Do you want a President Palin ?

Shes a dope but shes got a huge following and is very charasmatic, in a bad way, many of her supporters are ignorant just like she is. If she can somehow mobilize more people going for her because shes a mama grizzly you betcha eye wink etc. Imagine how much damage she can do as President.

If there are enough assholes in this country to elect this dumbell President then its time to blow up the country anyway.

[Snacks]

And while I want only those we are legally eligible to vote, yes, I want MORE people to exercise their right to vote. I think it's pitiful that is some elections the percentage in below 40%. Even in the past 2010 election only 41.5% of eligible voters actually voted.

And unless a state provides free ID to all citizens it is discrimination to require an ID to vote.

Who is being discriminated against? Everyone has id in this country for some reason or another. To drive, to go on a plane, most jobs are even requiring them and giving them for work but your saying that we shouldnt require proof of residents and proof of who you are for 1 of the most important things in this country which is elected our nations leaders? Why make it easier for fraud on both sides. This doesnt just hurt the left it helps the right because they can easily double and triple vote if we allow no proof of anything to vote.

[Jujubees2]

Who is being discriminated against? Everyone has id in this country for some reason or another. To drive, to go on a plane, most jobs are even requiring them and giving them for work but your saying that we shouldnt require proof of residents and proof of who you are for 1 of the most important things in this country which is elected our nations leaders? Why make it easier for fraud on both sides. This doesnt just hurt the left it helps the right because they can easily double and triple vote if we allow no proof of anything to vote.

While this study is a little old, it does show that there are millions of people in the country without valid government issued ID.

http://www.brennancenter.org/page/-/d/download_file_39242.pdf

As for double and triple voting, I'm not sure how other states do it but in NY when I vote I go to the table for my district, give the person my name, they check to make sure I'm registered, and then mark in the book that I voted so I can't go back and vote again.

[Snacks]

While this study is a little old, it does show that there are millions of people in the country without valid government issued ID.

http://www.brennancenter.org/page/-/d/download_file_39242.pdf

As for double and triple voting, I'm not sure how other states do it but in NY when I vote I go to the table for my district, give the person my name, they check to make sure I'm registered, and then mark in the book that I voted so I can't go back and vote again.

Thats what I do too but they ask for our license to make sure we are the ones voting not a family member voting for us which would easily happen and then you could have 1 person voting for 2 or 3 family members even when the other 2 werent going to vote or might have voted differently. As for needing ID to register to vote, if you dont have ID require ID to register we can register in other counties under different names, and vote there so even if and when they write your name that you voted you can go somewhere else claim to be someone else and vote. Everyone in this country that is here legally has and needs to have a social security #. If you dont have one you arent paying taxes, basically you arent even accounted for. We need to make it so that we have proof of who people are in order vote. SS cards are free arent they? I got mine at birth why can others? Why are we making a big deal out of people having ID/SS cards etc. Without them in todays America you cant do anything anyway. I personally think its a matter of time before our social security # will have some sort of other ID or code with it for doing things like online voting to make it even easier to vote. But that will only be when we really are secure enough without the chance of a hacker altering the election. But having people be able to vote from home or work will actually allow more voters to vote, make it easier for people to get involved and limit the amount of fraud (once they figure away to do this)!

[Syd]

Social Security cards aren't a good thing to carry around, since the SS# is a vital part of your identity.

The solution is to look at the facts and realize voter fraud isn't a big issue. It's just a boogeyman to make people think Democrats are lining up a bunch of swarthies to vote and re-vote like the Irish did in Gangs of New York while it's real purpose is voter disenfranchisement.

Now as far as the calls of "JUST GO GET AN ID THEY'RE FREE"

Even if they are free, they're not all that easy to get if you're a working poor.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/05/17/AR2009051702053.html

Read this article, if only to gain some insight on how difficult it is to be poor in America.

[Dudeman]

Social Security cards aren't a good thing to carry around, since the SS# is a vital part of your identity.

The solution is to look at the facts and realize voter fraud isn't a big issue. It's just a boogeyman to make people think Democrats are lining up a bunch of swarthies to vote and re-vote like the Irish did in Gangs of New York while it's real purpose is voter disenfranchisement.

Now as far as the calls of "JUST GO GET AN ID THEY'RE FREE"

Even if they are free, they're not all that easy to get if you're a working poor.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/05/17/AR2009051702053.html

Read this article, if only to gain some insight on how difficult it is to be poor in America.

x 2

well said

[Snacks]

Social Security cards aren't a good thing to carry around, since the SS# is a vital part of your identity.

The solution is to look at the facts and realize voter fraud isn't a big issue. It's just a boogeyman to make people think Democrats are lining up a bunch of swarthies to vote and re-vote like the Irish did in Gangs of New York while it's real purpose is voter disenfranchisement.

Now as far as the calls of "JUST GO GET AN ID THEY'RE FREE"

Even if they are free, they're not all that easy to get if you're a working poor.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/05/17/AR2009051702053.html

Read this article, if only to gain some insight on how difficult it is to be poor in America.

I know whats its like to be poor. I know what its like to have a father who is dealing with health issues and being raised by a single mother working 2, 3 and even 4 jobs at a time. She still got her ID, she still voted when she could.

The big boogyman in the room is saying that its hard to get an id even if they are free. Its not hard. Most govt offices have some sort of "late hours" 1 day a week. Go on your lunch break, go before work, go after work. Its a 1 time thing. If you are working that hard and that often chances are you are driving which means you have a license and thats your ID right there.

This excuse is a way to make it seem like its so anti minority or poor but the fact is the majority of poor people, minorities and people who dont drive have drivers licensees. Even people who dont drive go to DMV and get a license for id purposes only. And the other excuse is that these same people work too many hours to be able to get these ids, well that true but if your working somewhere chances are they asked for some form of id. If you are so poor that you dont work, then you have all the time in the world to go get 1 of these free ids.

At the end of the day everyone should have some form of id on them at all times because you never know when you might need it. If we need to offer more free ids thats fine with me, it cost pennies to make 1 now a days with technology and access.

[StanUpshaw]

x 2

You agree with him...big surprise.

You two are attached at the sandy vagina.

[sailor]

Isn't it illegal to walk around without an id? Don't you need multiple forms of id to get any job? I'm not involved in either side of this debate but I don't see how people are going around without id.

[PapaBear]

Isn't it illegal to walk around without an id? Don't you need multiple forms of id to get any job? I'm not involved in either side of this debate but I don't see how people are going around without id.
You don't need to have an ID on you at all times.

[Syd]

Isn't it illegal to walk around without an id? Don't you need multiple forms of id to get any job? I'm not involved in either side of this debate but I don't see how people are going around without id.

Depends wildly on the job, but, it isn't a requirement. Nor is it a requirement to always have an ID on you -- a cop can demand identification, but you're under no obligation to provide a form of ID*


*You can very likely be arrested illegally for not coughing up identification, so, just ask the cop if you're free to leave and if they say no then give up your form of ID or refuse and take your right to remain silent so you can hire a lawyer. It's still illegal as fuck but people are falling all over themselves to erode the 4th amendment more so that's not going to last. Shit like the Arizona law is going to move us more and more toward "your papers, please"

[sailor]

Depends wildly on the job, but, it isn't a requirement. Nor is it a requirement to always have an ID on you -- a cop can demand identification, but you're under no obligation to provide a form of ID*


*You can very likely be arrested illegally for not coughing up identification, so, just ask the cop if you're free to leave and if they say no then give up your form of ID or refuse and take your right to remain silent so you can hire a lawyer. It's still illegal as fuck but people are falling all over themselves to erode the 4th amendment more so that's not going to last. Shit like the Arizona law is going to move us more and more toward "your papers, please"

i've never heard of a job not needing id, unless they're paying you illegally "under the table."

[WRESTLINGFAN]

If youre not a citizen you need your Green card at all times

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/361724/are_immigrants_required_to_carry_their.html?cat=17

[WRESTLINGFAN]

You dont need to have a draconian policy to just round them up. Make life unbearable for them and they will leave. Georgia proves this


http://www.examiner.com/immigration-reform-in-national/illegal-aliens-fleeing-georgia-due-to-new-immigration-law

[WRESTLINGFAN]

A congressional study was needed for this?


http://www.usnews.com/news/washington-whispers/articles/2011/06/15/report-most-illegal-immigrants-come-from-mexico


Whats next? a study that most terrorists are muslim?

[Jujubees2]

Whats next? a study that most terrorists are muslim?

All Terrorists are Muslims…Except the 94% that Aren’t (http://www.loonwatch.com/2010/01/not-all-terrorists-are-muslims/)

[WRESTLINGFAN]

All Terrorists are Muslims…Except the 94% that Aren’t (http://www.loonwatch.com/2010/01/not-all-terrorists-are-muslims/)

That only includes the US


Here we only have to worry about MS 13 and the Earth Liberation Front

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Looks like Texas is getting it right

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/7600228.html