Benghazi, IRS, and Wiretaps - Will any of it stick?

[furie]

Will any these controversies bring Obama or another member of his admin down?

[Kevin]

WF...

Did you hack Furie's account?

[keithy_19]

Will any these controversies bring Obama or another member of his admin down?

I didn't think so but now I'm second guessing myself.

[furie]

i have thoughts too!

[Dude!]

IRS bad, but survivable

Benghazi disgraceful lies,
but press didn't care

wiretapping the press
uh-oh
now they turn, and he is toast

[Syd]

IRS won't stick because half of it happened under a Republican appointee and Benghazi is such a very, very forced narrative by people who don't understand the military. That, and reality contradicts with their claims --

AFRICOM had no troops to spare, the nearest were in Europe. By the time the troops from Europe were ready to go, the second attack was over. For the CIA GRS mercs, Keane summarizes it pretty well here:

http://www.npr.org/2012/11/02/164207549/general-cia-responded-quickly-to-benghazi-attack

KEANE: Yes, they received an alarm bell and a call almost immediately upon the insurgents and terrorists, you know, storming the gate. They essentially did come through the front gate because there wasn't much protection there. What happened then is the chief of base at the CIA annex organized very rapidly a quick reaction force of a half dozen or so of his contract security, direct contract security people who all have either CIA background experience or military experience.

In addition to that, he was trying to organize some militia to accompany them and also to get some heavy machine guns. And it's been somewhat misunderstood and somewhat misrepresented what took place there. From the time they got the call to the time they left was 24 minutes and that's been verified now by surveillance tapes which will be made available to, you know, Senator Lieberman's committee as well as to the investigation that Secretary Clinton has ordered.

SIEGEL: These are surveillance tapes taken from the consulate itself and the CIA's looked at them and seen who was where when?

KEANE: This is tapes taken from the CIA base so they know when people left and when they returned, and there's also surveillance tapes, as I understand it, from the consulate as well. Now, I think from a practical matter, what happened here is the leader of the quick reaction force is working with the chief of base and he knows that he can go whenever he's ready. Meanwhile, his people are loading up equipment, ammunition, weapons, et cetera.

They're in vehicles. The vehicles are cranking, and every minute they're sitting out there seems like an hour. But meanwhile, they're trying to coordinate and facilitate the movement. At some point, the leader of the quick reaction force said, look, I'm going to go. This is taking too long. And the chief of base said, yeah, go. And out they went. They got delayed at the militia checkpoint as expected. They tried to get some machine guns from those guys.

They couldn't make it work, and they dismounted from their vehicles, moved on foot. Some Libyan militia did accompany them, and they entered the compound, fortunately, to be able to rescue everybody who was still alive and bring them back to the CIA annex by way of an ambushing route where their tires were all shot out. So there were no disobeying orders and the team left under that level of frustration.

The leader of the quick reaction force left when he was ready. There was no orders telling him to stand down, and I think the people sitting in the vehicles outside waiting for the leader of the quick reaction force just misunderstood what was taking place.

No air assets were in the region for a "show of force" (basically Top Gun, buzzing the locals*) and to get anything assembled it would take hours, and then the actual flight out there. On top of that, the local conditions were unknown and no one knew if the Libyans had any anti-aircraft abilities. Having a plane shot down would have been pretty bad publicity, especially if it wiped out a residential area in a nascent democracy.

This all on top of the fact that House republicans are so shit scared of Hillary that they're willing to reveal state secrets (the black site annex to the consulate) and this:

http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2013/05/voters-trust-clinton-over-gop-on-benghazi.html

PPP's newest national poll finds that Republicans aren't getting much traction with their focus on Benghazi over the last week. Voters trust Hillary Clinton over Congressional Republicans on the issue of Benghazi by a 49/39 margin and Clinton's +8 net favorability rating at 52/44 is identical to what it was on our last national poll in late March. Meanwhile Congressional Republicans remain very unpopular with a 36/57 favorability rating.

and

One interesting thing about the voters who think Benghazi is the biggest political scandal in American history is that 39% of them don't actually know where it is. 10% think it's in Egypt, 9% in Iran, 6% in Cuba, 5% in Syria, 4% in Iraq, and 1% each in North Korea and Liberia with 4% not willing to venture a guess.

People don't really care who died, how they died or anything like that. They're just desperate to get rid of Obama and think this is how. Plus it exposes how little people know about military operations and they think it's just some Jack Bauer shit when you can teleport people instantly to the battlefield and have them headshot terrists with pistols.

annnnnnnnnd

While voters overall may think Congress' focus should be elsewhere there's no doubt about how mad Republicans are about Benghazi. 41% say they consider this to be the biggest political scandal

How fucking stupid are they? The assassination of Ngo Dinh Diem/second Tonkin/Watergate/Nixon sabotaging peace talks were all instrumental into leading into the deaths of thousands of Americans. Oh, that and the whole "yeah there are totes weapons of mass destruction in in Iraq -- yellowcake uranium (just don't ask WHEN that intelligence was dated) which led to even more American deaths, $6 trillion of debt and 600k+ Iraqis dead.

But, hey, 4 people dying in 2 separate attacks in an unstable country is the worst scandal of all time. It's not even a scandal, and it's not even the worst one of recent history.

*Has surprising rate of success in Afghanistan

[spoon]

IRS won't stick because half of it happened under a Republican appointee and Benghazi is such a very, very forced narrative by people who don't understand the military. That, and reality contradicts with their claims --

AFRICOM had no troops to spare, the nearest were in Europe. By the time the troops from Europe were ready to go, the second attack was over. For the CIA GRS mercs, Keane summarizes it pretty well here:

http://www.npr.org/2012/11/02/164207549/general-cia-responded-quickly-to-benghazi-attack



No air assets were in the region for a "show of force" (basically Top Gun, buzzing the locals*) and to get anything assembled it would take hours, and then the actual flight out there. On top of that, the local conditions were unknown and no one knew if the Libyans had any anti-aircraft abilities. Having a plane shot down would have been pretty bad publicity, especially if it wiped out a residential area in a nascent democracy.

This all on top of the fact that House republicans are so shit scared of Hillary that they're willing to reveal state secrets (the black site annex to the consulate) and this:

http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2013/05/voters-trust-clinton-over-gop-on-benghazi.html



and



People don't really care who died, how they died or anything like that. They're just desperate to get rid of Obama and think this is how. Plus it exposes how little people know about military operations and they think it's just some Jack Bauer shit when you can teleport people instantly to the battlefield and have them headshot terrists with pistols.

annnnnnnnnd



How fucking stupid are they? The assassination of Ngo Dinh Diem/second Tonkin/Watergate/Nixon sabotaging peace talks were all instrumental into leading into the deaths of thousands of Americans. Oh, that and the whole "yeah there are totes weapons of mass destruction in in Iraq -- yellowcake uranium (just don't ask WHEN that intelligence was dated) which led to even more American deaths, $6 trillion of debt and 600k+ Iraqis dead.

But, hey, 4 people dying in 2 separate attacks in an unstable country is the worst scandal of all time. It's not even a scandal, and it's not even the worst one of recent history.

*Has surprising rate of success in Afghanistan

all this

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Benghazi, very little or almost no damage

IRS . Doesn't matter who was appointed. Obama said in his pressed something to the effect, if this is true. Well it is true. The IRS admitted guilt . Also it wasn't just some low level employees. Management had to sign off . This just makes people hate the irs even more.


Seizing of AP phone records could do some damage. Shit rolls downhill.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Even if the AP scandal or something bigger down the road forces Obama to resign, We are still fucked.


Biden becomes POTUS

[Syd]

bomb bomb bomb, bomb Iran if Biden were to happen in one of these Karl Rove fever dreams

more fallout from the IRS:

Republicans are still furious over IRS scrutiny of non-profit groups with "Tea Party" and "patriots" in their names, but the life of the scandal depends entirely upon the political affiliation of the hundreds of othergroups investigated by tax officials.

Only 25% of the 300 scrutinized groups seeking non-profit status were reportedly affiliated with right-wing causes. Whether the rest aligned with left-leaning causes like abortion and climate change will not be known until the entire list is released. The IRS told Gawker today that the full list has yet to be made public.
President Obama said he only learned of the Cincinnati office's tactics on Friday but "will not tolerate it." Republicans in Congress are calling for investigations.
IRS examinations of politically vocal non-profits is not new—the most recent outrage to make the national news was in 2006, when tax officials threatened and persecuted liberal churches during the presidency of George W. Bush.

http://gawker.com/irs-didnt-just-hunt-the-tea-party-liberal-churches-al-504685119

Basically coming at any 501s, and they weren't targeting specific groups. Now it's back to the IRS being the IRS, and Tea Party 501s being scam organizations since none of them were revoked their tax exempt status.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

More of a reason to scrap the tax laws and get rid of all these 501 groups. I'll say it again. Time for all religious institutions to pay up

[A.J.]

This guy is bulletproof.

[Jujubees2]

This guy is bulletproof.

Unlike Reagan

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Unlike Reagan



Gun control would have stopped that shooting

[WRESTLINGFAN]

This guy is bulletproof.



Gotti's Teflon eventually wore out.

[Syd]

Should get some light shed on the subpoena'd phone records and maybe in time, who was leaking classified CIA stuff to the press. Given the history of outing CIA information recently between retaliating against an op-ed by publicly outing Valerie Plame and exposing the CIA black site annex at Benghazi, I'm guessing they have an R somewhere in their name.

[SonOfSmeagol]

Syd=Little Jay Carney

[KnoxHarrington]

The IRS thing doesn't seem like it's going to go all that far: it certainly doesn't compare the way that Nixon used the IRS as a tool to punish political enemies, at least not from the information we have.

The Bengazi thing is totally played out. The only reason the Republicans are still talking about this bullshit at all is because they're having their feet held to the fire on this by idiots like Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck. The fact that they lack the courage to say "We've invesitgated this and there's nothing to it" shows what a piece of shit party the GOP is.

I'm not sure about the AP thing yet. But, again, this doesn't seem to speak to any widespread pattern of abuse of Presidential power. At least not yet.

[A.J.]

The Bengazi thing is totally played out. The only reason the Republicans are still talking about this bullshit at all is because they're having their feet held to the fire on this by idiots like Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck. The fact that they lack the courage to say "We've invesitgated this and there's nothing to it" shows what a piece of shit party the GOP is.

Not necessarily true. If State rewrote the CIA talking points, then we need to find out who did that and why. CIA doesn't want a replay of the pre-Iraq invasion intel fuckups.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

While I don't think Obama was in the oval office plotting to take down the tea party in regards to the IRS scandal, It does shed light that regardless of your political views, the Feds are overreaching and constantly abuse their powers

[Dude!]

Syd=Little Jay Carney

Syd is quite a bit brighter
than the Hanso-Spoon-Gutter types

it is just that he has been brainwashed
somewhere along the line...
it's too bad, really,
he could have amounted to something

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I think Woodward and Bernstein need a 40 year reunion

[Syd]

While I don't think Obama was in the oval office plotting to take down the tea party in regards to the IRS scandal, It does shed light that regardless of your political views, the Feds are overreaching and constantly abuse their powers

Even though 75% of the groups audited weren't Tea Party groups? Now in the wake of the manufactured scandal, the only issue at hand is the IRS should have thought about the optics of the audits and re-worked them.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Doesn't matter whatever group it is.

The Feds are overreaching

The 16th amendment needs to be repealed so there's no 501 C types organizations among other reasons

[SonOfSmeagol]

Not necessarily true. If State rewrote the CIA talking points, then we need to find out who did that and why. CIA doesn't want a replay of the pre-Iraq invasion intel fuckups.

So Obama says this just yesterday:

"We have been clear throughout that immediately after this event happened we were not clear who exactly had carried it out, how it had occurred, what the motivations were."

Yet his administration went pretty much all in on the Sunday shows 5 days after 9/11/12 by blaming the video, while scrubbing out all info on AQ, prior attacks and warnings, including this removed info:

"The Agency has produced numerous pieces on the threat of extremists linked to al-Qaida in Benghazi and eastern Libya. These noted that, since April, there have been at least five other attacks against foreign interests in Benghazi by unidentified assailants, including a June attack against the British ambassador's convoy. We cannot rule out the individuals had previously surveilled the U.S. facilities, also contributing to the efficacy of the attacks."

It seems like he wanted to deflect all dialogue away from his Admin (and their actions/inactions) and onto some random video. With the election coming up and stuff. Yet he accuses GOP of politicizing this, while apparently that's what HE did in the first place!

I don't see how any reasonable person can say "yep, I'm ok - all important questions have been answered."

Also, if there were such warnings about Libya, and with the 9/11 anniv coming up, why didn't State and the military prepare for the contingency?

[Syd]

What contingency? Have every single facility that America operates worldwide be on ready? If we're worried about the deficit, that's a massive amount of money to spend on 4 lives.

Furthermore, how would an attack on a CIA facility negatively impacted Obama? He's shown consistently that he's handled foreign affairs quite well. Even the killing of four Americans wouldn't even register as a blip compared to his accolades.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Imagine if all of this happened under Clinton, There would be a mountain of corpses many with "accidental deaths "

[keithy_19]

What contingency? Have every single facility that America operates worldwide be on ready? If we're worried about the deficit, that's a massive amount of money to spend on 4 lives.

Furthermore, how would an attack on a CIA facility negatively impacted Obama? He's shown consistently that he's handled foreign affairs quite well. Even the killing of four Americans wouldn't even register as a blip compared to his accolades.

Yup. Only 4 lives. :wallbash:

[Syd]

Yup. Only 4 lives. :wallbash:

The world's a dangerous place. People have been dying overseas at diplomatic facilities and spy facilities for years.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

In the wake of new scandals. Obama does what he does best

Hang out with celebrities and fundraise

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I wonder if Barack is doing blow again

[A.J.]

The world's a dangerous place. People have been dying overseas at diplomatic facilities and spy facilities for years.

That will be of great comfort to the families of those who were needlessly killed.

[Syd]

That will be of great comfort to the families of those who were needlessly killed.

Yes, as it was great comfort to those families of dead soldiers and other Americans when we found all those WMDs in Iraq. Or all those people who died at diplomatic facilities in the previous 8 years. Funny how criticizing the president was unpatriotic up until Obama was elected!

This is a politically motivated scandal to attempt to sweep the legs out from under Hillary Clinton and absolutely nothing else. No one gives a shit about the 4 dead people and people should stop with the crocodile tears because that isn't helping the families of the dead people to have this false narrative of a giant government coverup to murder specifically 4 people. People should at least be consistent with their false outrage is all I am saying.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Stewart skewers Barack

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/stewart-destroys-obama-over-irs-scandal-lack-of-managerial-competence-youve-vindicated-conspiracy-theorists/

[Pitdoc]

Benghazi - Petering out.There really IS no "there" there. Especially when you consider that there were 12 attacks during Bush's administration , with 60 dead , and not one peep from conservatives then . Right now its all about tarring Hillary .

IRS- Those groups SHOULD be examined with a fine tooth comb. Some groups are electioneering for one specific group ,and that is expressly forbidden . 75% of those groups examined were not Tea Party groups . The ONLY group that got DENIED tax -exempt status was a group that wanted to press for electing Democratic women ,and they should have .I'm still pissed that big groups like Americans for Prosperity are tax -exempt ,and don't have to release their "donors" ,and their only goal is to elect conservatives (same thing for that one Obama group ) . Have no problem with any group electioneering,as long as they do it on their dime , not on taxpayers (this includes religion).

AP wiretaps- They'll catch hell, and probably should.Still this is all because Republicans last year were screaming about national security leaks , and were accusing the administration of doing it .They'll never pin this on Holder, as he expressly recused himself from anything to do with this ,as he was accused of being one of the leaks . He appointed a special attorney, and its this attorney that took it upon himself to tap AP.

[Syd]

Some of the terms looked for were purely political, and in order for taxpayers to subsidize the "social welfare" aspect of these groups, they need to be largely apolitical in their efforts.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Axelrod proved my point when he said that the fed gov't is too big for Obama to micromanage everything. Exactly !!!




The solution? Make it more bloated

[Recyclerz]

This guy is bulletproof.

Another one of your secret projects?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

This guy is bulletproof.



Chocolate bulletproof

[El Mudo]

Will any these controversies bring Obama or another member of his admin down?

No, but the poo flinging monkeys in Congress will spend most of the next two years doing nothing but trying to.

There's a million good reasons to throw out Obama (like the drone stuff, or his refusal to satisfactorily prosecute anyone on Wall Street or from the Bush Administration), but these things aren't.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Obama is not going anywhere. Even if the house impeaches him, there's no way the Senate will shitcan him

[Pitdoc]

Obama is not going anywhere. Even if the house impeaches him, there's no way the Senate will shitcan him

This...

but if that's the case ,why the HELL has the House voted 36 times( 37th try on Thursday) to repeal Obamacare? It will NEVER pass in the Senate, and they've spent over 25 MILLION with these votes. I guess so they won't be primaried as do-nothings.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

As much as I disagree with the bill, I agree that voting to repeal it is a waste of time and money

If the GOP had any decent leadership they should try to focus on recruiting candidates who can win. Maybe they can get enough to win in 2014 so they can get a 2/3 majority in 2014. It's a big leap but not impossible, or they can hold a majority if 2014 is a success and nominate a competent person.

[Syd]

This...

but if that's the case ,why the HELL has the House voted 36 times( 37th try on Thursday) to repeal Obamacare? It will NEVER pass in the Senate, and they've spent over 25 MILLION with these votes. I guess so they won't be primaried as do-nothings.

Because it's like the tail end of the French Revolution after the Mountain became prominent and began dictating to the leaders of how they should act. Even perceived slights against them are going to be viewed as treasonous. Thus, Republicans are going to have to cater to the same populist forces till they're cast off and new Republicans come into place.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Wanna shitcan Citizens United , American Crossroads and all the SuperPacs? Scrap our tax system and simplify the laws. No more 501 and 527 groups. This way all the dark money practices can disappear and Sheldon Adelsons won't be involved in politics.

I'm not defending SuperPacs but if the tax laws are so complex and archaic , there are much smarter people than the IRS who can create these groups.

[SonOfSmeagol]

What contingency? Have every single facility that America operates worldwide be on ready? If we're worried about the deficit, that's a massive amount of money to spend on 4 lives.

Furthermore, how would an attack on a CIA facility negatively impacted Obama? He's shown consistently that he's handled foreign affairs quite well. Even the killing of four Americans wouldn't even register as a blip compared to his accolades.

I didn't say worldwide, I said Libya. But now that you mentioned it I would think that posts in all other Islamic states would've increased their alert on 9/11 anniv. That is, if State didn't quash increased strength not wanting to offend Muslim sensibilities.

You imply that he should get some sort of pass for Benghazi because of other events. And you say the deaths are just a blip. ridiculous.

You throw in "CIA facility" in some sort of attempt to diffuse the event. It was a actually a diplomatic post with the ambassador present. ambassadors are of course briefed on CIA work at their posts but you might be just a bit curious as to what that rascal Stevens was doing at your "CIA facility" on 9/11 anniv.

[keithy_19]

Yes, as it was great comfort to those families of dead soldiers and other Americans when we found all those WMDs in Iraq. Or all those people who died at diplomatic facilities in the previous 8 years. Funny how criticizing the president was unpatriotic up until Obama was elected!


You're kidding me, right?

[Jujubees2]

Late Benghazi U.S. Ambassador Christopher Stevens turned down offers of more security — twice: report (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/late-benghazi-ambassador-turned-security-report-article-1.1345119#ixzz2TPLcgqUE)

[SonOfSmeagol]

Late Benghazi U.S. Ambassador Christopher Stevens turned down offers of more security — twice: report (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/late-benghazi-ambassador-turned-security-report-article-1.1345119#ixzz2TPLcgqUE)

good find, didya see this in the actual article you linked?:

"One person familiar with the events said Stevens might have rejected the offers because there was an understanding within the State Department that officials in Libya ought not to request more security, in part because of concerns about the political fallout of seeking a larger military presence in a country that was still being touted as a foreign policy success."

" 'The embassy was told through back channels to not make direct requests for security, ' an official familiar with the case, who agreed to discuss the case only anonymously because of the sensitivity of the subject, told McClatchy."

[WRESTLINGFAN]

No fan of Carney, however, I sorta feel bad for the schlub. He's gotta feel like a punching bag trying to answer questions while probably saying to himself " I don't need this shit " especially over the last few days with these 3 issues

[Syd]

You're kidding me, right?

No I'm just wondering when it became vogue to worry about dead Americans overseas in America. It's like all of a sudden people care about how troops and civilians are used in wars and we're not content to just slap a yellow ribbon on the back of our SUV and mumble "we support the troops" while idly fingering our bellybuttons.

I didn't say worldwide, I said Libya. But now that you mentioned it I would think that posts in all other Islamic states would've increased their alert on 9/11 anniv. That is, if State didn't quash increased strength not wanting to offend Muslim sensibilities.

You imply that he should get some sort of pass for Benghazi because of other events. And you say the deaths are just a blip. ridiculous.

You throw in "CIA facility" in some sort of attempt to diffuse the event. It was a actually a diplomatic post with the ambassador present. ambassadors are of course briefed on CIA work at their posts but you might be just a bit curious as to what that rascal Stevens was doing at your "CIA facility" on 9/11 anniv.

So...increase tensions worldwide (remember: "Islamic" states have allies) so we can leave other places with less people protecting them? Also, who was going to pay for it?

And yeah, I throw in CIA facility because that's what the facility was for. It's a spy outpost. That's why the only people protecting it were Blue Mountain with the February 17 brigade. They're not proper security -- one is adventure tourism and the other is a bunch of untrained partisans. If it was a diplomatic facility, it would have better security (which would have drawn attention to it) Instead the closest thing to trained soldiers were the GRS mercs that responded. The sort-of-confirmed rumor that the target was the black site prison annex, when the two other deaths happened from mortar strikes. That's where the actual troops went because that was what was trying to be protected.

As to why Stevens was there, who knows. There are unsubstantiated rumors of it being used to facilitate arms transfers to Syrian rebels. Regardless, a diplomat doesn't just stay holed up in an embassy all day in a country that lacks a strong central government. It's ruled by militias, and the guy for all we know was going out to see what was what. A spy outpost is a hub of intelligence and given what Stevens was doing when he was dying, there apparently was a shitload of documents there worth destroying.

[SonOfSmeagol]

So...increase tensions worldwide (remember: "Islamic" states have allies) so we can leave other places with less people protecting them? Also, who was going to pay for it?

And yeah, I throw in CIA facility because that's what the facility was for. It's a spy outpost. That's why the only people protecting it were Blue Mountain with the February 17 brigade. They're not proper security -- one is adventure tourism and the other is a bunch of untrained partisans. If it was a diplomatic facility, it would have better security (which would have drawn attention to it) Instead the closest thing to trained soldiers were the GRS mercs that responded. The sort-of-confirmed rumor that the target was the black site prison annex, when the two other deaths happened from mortar strikes. That's where the actual troops went because that was what was trying to be protected.

As to why Stevens was there, who knows. There are unsubstantiated rumors of it being used to facilitate arms transfers to Syrian rebels. Regardless, a diplomat doesn't just stay holed up in an embassy all day in a country that lacks a strong central government. It's ruled by militias, and the guy for all we know was going out to see what was what. A spy outpost is a hub of intelligence and given what Stevens was doing when he was dying, there apparently was a shitload of documents there worth destroying.

dude, when was the last time you worried about something getting paid for :dry:

as for the other stuff I had no idea. I'd love to know more. :innocent:

[Syd]

dude, when was the last time you worried about something getting paid for :dry:

as for the other stuff I had no idea. I'd love to know more. :innocent:

I'm just pointing out that the motto of post-Bush America is no paying for anything at all, ever.

For what happened and the reasons, we'll never know exactly what happened in Benghazi. It's all CIA shit and the CIA isn't going to run an expose on one of their failings. Reasonable money is that the CIA picked up someone from a Salafist group and had them in a prison (based on Broadwell saying as much) and more-or-less confirmed by Issa's hearing on Benghazi that was aired on C-SPAN.

Blue Mountain is a relic of the Bush years when outsourcing military/security to merc groups, they had no business being out there. They subcontracted the work out to the Feb17 brigade because Libya had strict rules on what mercs could operate in their country (they had to be Libyans basically)

Given how fucked up the country is and how horribly splintered it is after years of authoritarian rule, the only people "left" that weren't fighting for a cause were people who may have fired a gun once or twice but generally were doing it purely for money, not out of skill or interest. There were teachers, carpenters, engineers and a whole motley group of people assembled into the militia. When the first attack happened, they bugged out/stood aside because they weren't getting paid enough to die there. Even though as we found out from the videos, it was only a few people that actually were attacking and the rest were actual protesters. Anyway, long story short an RPG or grenade lit up the consulate and started a fire, the Salafists or whoever came in and started additional fires which ultimately killed Stevens and Smith.

GRS soldiers (CIA in-house mercs) came in and relieved the consulate and things calmed down some, Libyans came in and pulled Stevens out and rushed him to a hospital. I think Smith was either dead already or they couldn't find his corpse. I can't remember the timeline exactly if the GRS guys showed up first before the Libyans went in. Oh, and there was garden-variety looting going on as well which added to the confusion -- no one knew if they were coming for intel, whether it was protesters just doing their normal song and dance or if it was an unorganized attack that escalated.

After that, the Salafists came back looking for the annex. The annex had beefed up their security, but only from local Americans and Libyans. Nearest troops were days away and by the time they were ready, the annex had already been attacked and the mortars had killed the two additional Americans.

If we want to blame it on anything, blame it on being in the middle of an ongoing civil war in the middle of a violent area. It's not Obama's fault, it's not House GOP's fault and it's not the fault of the video that caused protests. It's just a shit sandwich that the GOP is trying to use to tar and feather Clinton because they can't compete against her in 2016.

There was no giant conspiracy, no one really knew the cause because at first glance, everything pointed toward a random act of violence spurred on by protesters. You can tell because half the initial reports from the varying agencies involved didn't match up. Some groups thought it was this, some groups thought it was that. If it was a top-down conspiracy, the stories would have been the same despite each agency having wildly different information at first (i.e. some people had drone feeds, some people had the camera feeds, some people had eyewitness reports)

But, like I said, no one has really given a shit about Americans dying anywhere up to this point. It's sad that corpses are used for political purposes but this is the world we live in and stringing 4 dead guys up like marionettes to do a jig to get someone elected is just something we have to accept as normal and expected.

[Dude!]

and stringing 4 dead guys up like marionettes to do a jig to get someone elected is just something we have to accept as normal and expected.

and saying they were killed
because of an Internet video
to get someone reelected,
when that was known to be
a lie from the get-go, is just
the kind of lie we have to accept
as normal and expected.

[Syd]

and saying they were killed
because of an Internet video
to get someone reelected,
when that was known to be
a lie from the get-go, is just
the kind of lie we have to accept
as normal and expected.

it wasn't known to be a lie from the get go because no one had any idea what happened

hence the whole thing being a surprise attack and stuff -- the closest thing they had to a warning was one of the Feb17 guys taking photos of the compound a few days prior

[Dude!]

it wasn't known to be a lie from the get go because no one had any idea what happened

if they had no idea
what had happened
then why did they
DEFINITIVELY say...
day after day...
that it was caused by
an Internet video?

making up stories is lying

[Syd]

who
said
day after day
that definitively
it was the
video
because after
people found out
it was probably
ansar al sharia
or another
salafist group
they
said it
was a
terrorist
attack but
it wasn't
because terr-
orism is generally
targeted against
civilians and
not government
installations

[Syd]

furthermore what does what they say caused the attack have any bearing on it, blaming it on terrorism is also untruthful because it was most likely a prison break or a revenge attack

the consulate and black site annex were very specifically targeted

so if anyone came out and said it was terrorism right away, they'd also be lying

even though that is what the GOP wanted people to hear -- a lie

[brettmojo]

That will be of great comfort to the families of those who were needlessly killed.

Afghanistan? Iraq? Vietnam?

It's hilarious this is being made out by the GOP as an exception and gross failure of leadership when it's the norm for this country. Meanwhile let's vote to repeal Obamacare again...

[A.J.]

So the next time I head out to work in an embassy I should know that if I'm killed, I had it coming.

Gotcha.

[Syd]

I remember the witchhunts that went on after Katrina, and people were held accountable for the woeful inadequacy of FEMA's response to multiple states in the region. I'm amazed that Brown was held accountable and that Bush was scrutinized for appointing someone who was more of a friend than a person capable of running an emergency management agency.

In other news;
http://www.newrepublic.com/article/113217/irs-tea-party-scandal-conservative-political-correctness-action

op-ed, but worth noting for this gem:

But, in fact, the IRS’s great conservative crackdown is even more innocent than that. It turns out that the applications the conservative groups submitted to the IRS—the ones the agency subsequently combed over, provoking nonstop howling—were unnecessary. The IRS doesn’t require so-called 501c4 organizations to apply for tax-exempt status. If anyone wants to start a social welfare group, they can just do it, then submit the corresponding tax return (form 990) at the end of the year. To be sure, the IRS certainly allows groups to apply for tax-exempt status if they want to make their status official. But the application is completely voluntary, making it a strange basis for an alleged witch hunt.

So why would so many Tea Party groups subject themselves to a lengthy and needless application process? Mostly it had to do with anxiety—the fear that they could run afoul of the law once they started raising and spending money. “Our business experience was that we had to pay taxes once there was money coming through here,” says Tom Zawistowski, the recent president of the Ohio Liberty Coalition, which tangled with the IRS over its tax status. “We felt we were under a microscope. … We were on pins and needles at all times.” In other words, the groups submitted their applications because they perceived themselves to be persecuted, not because they actually were.

Fine—there’s no law against neurosis. But, to borrow a thought experiment from my colleague Alec MacGillis, consider all this from the perspective of the IRS’s Cincinnati office, which handles tax-exempt groups. You’re minding your own business in 2009 when you start to receive dozens of applications from right-leaning groups, applications you didn’t solicit and don’t require. You peruse a few of the applications and it looks like many of the groups, while claiming to be “social welfare” organizations, have an overtly political purpose, like backing candidates with specific ideological agendas. Suffice it to say, you don’t need an inquisitorial mind to decide the applications deserve careful vetting. One Tea Party activist from Waco, Texas, has complained that an IRS official told her he was “sitting on a stack of tea party applications and they were awaiting word from higher-ups as to how to process them.” The quote is intended to sound nefarious—an outtake from some vast left-wing conspiracy—but it’s actually perfectly straight-forward: The IRS was unexpectedly flooded by dodgy 501c4 applications and was at a loss over how to manage them.

Again, the issue at hand is some mid-management deciding to shortcut scrutiny by using keywords. Sherrod all over again with Miller being the victim of faux-rage.

So the next time I head out to work in an embassy I should know that if I'm killed, I had it coming.

Gotcha.

Or, you work at an embassy in a warzone that's actually a consulate operated mainly by the CIA and is woefully understaffed by security because it was trying to keep a low profile (go look at the photos -- the building itself wasn't even remotely defensible)

It's not Stevens' or Smith's fault that they died but rather that the consulate itself wasn't meant to be an impregnable fortress. Apart from the embassy in Iraq, most embassies aren't actually even fortresses and there's a long history of attacks on them. It's mostly a "we can't be surprised when people die overseas in semi-hostile areas that still have sectarian violence happening" sort of deal.

[ozzie]

I didn't realize that our ambassadors were drafted, and sent into dangerous locations against their will.

For some reason, I thought it was a voluntary position.

I didn't accept an offer to work in Chihuahua, Mexico a few years back. I looked into the job, the area, the crime rate... talked with a few American workers down there, and had no problem telling them "no, thanks".

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Quit beating up the IRS . They are a fine bureaucracy and for the past 100 years our tax system has been making great strides to make sure that our taxes are being collected and our esteemed politicians are spending that money in an efficient manner

[brettmojo]

So the next time I head out to work in an embassy I should know that if I'm killed, I had it coming.

Gotcha.

In Libya?

Yes.

It's not exactly Canada or England.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

So glad we led from behind to help make Libya a bastion for a western democracy


Next stop Damascus. Regime change baby !!!!

[Snoogans]

So the next time I head out to work in an embassy I should know that if I'm killed, I had it coming.

Gotcha.

i dont think thats what they are tryin to say. At least I hope not. I think what they mean is, why are they all of a sudden making a big deal out of something that happened a bunch of times before and no one ever made a big deal about it. or sayin why didnt we make a bigger deal out of the other ones. I dont think anyone is sayin anything about how they dont care about the people.
Maybe Syd is, cause that shit is wayyyy to long so i only read about 25% of it

[Snoogans]

In Libya?

Yes.

It's not exactly Canada or England.

im pretty sure the embassy he works out of when he does, or did, is in Qatar

[jimmyolsenblues]

Benghazi, IRS, and Wiretaps - Will any of it stick?
Not only will it not stick
Hillary Clinton will win in 2016, bank on it.
Immigration, Gay , Women vote.
romney won the white vote and still lost the election.

If only white people had voted on Tuesday, Mitt Romney would have carried every state except for Massachusetts, Iowa, Connecticut and New Hampshire, according to the news media’s exit polls. Nationally, Romney won 59 percent of the white vote, a towering twenty-point margin over Obama. (Exit polls were canceled in nineteen states by the consortium of news media that run them.)
http://www.thenation.com/blog/171093/bad-news-about-white-people-romney-won-white-vote-almost-everywhere#

[WRESTLINGFAN]

As long as the low info voters are the majority, I see a Clinton win in 2016 if she runs

[spoon]

So glad we led from behind to help make Libya a bastion for a western democracy


Next stop Damascus. Regime change baby !!!!

well you're an idiot to start if you think that was the goal in any way

well, you're just an idiot period .

[spoon]

As long as the low info voters are the majority, I see a Clinton win in 2016 if she runs

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

yep, that's it!

this is an all time record for the excuses to be flying

Don't blame me! I don't vote for the big parties WF is ON IT!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

well you're an idiot to start if you think that was the goal in any way

well, you're just an idiot period .


You're an idiot to think interventionilism isn't our M.O.


How many other Muslim countries affairs should we get involved with ?

Neo Con policies. Sexy since 2009

[WRESTLINGFAN]

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

yep, that's it!

this is an all time record for the excuses to be flying

Don't blame me! I don't vote for the big parties WF is ON IT!


Ive stated numerous times , Romney ran a bad campaign, however 60 million people were still dumb enough to reelect Barack

[spoon]

You're an idiot to think interventionilism isn't our M.O.


How many other Muslim countries affairs should we get involved with ?

Neo Con policies. Sexy since 2009

who said that?

must have missed it with your conversation that goes on in your fucking brainless vapid head

[WRESTLINGFAN]

who said that?

must have missed it with your conversation that goes on in your fucking brainless vapid head



Your silence speaks words.


If you oppose intervening in Syria, speak up.

[spoon]

Ive stated numerous times , Romney ran a bad campaign, however 60 million people were still dumb enough to reelect Barack

no matter how many times you say something stupid and beyond the point, it's still stupid

say it again fool

go for it

he lost bc he was a terrible choice and had horrible policy ideas and continues to be a joke in everything he does, touches and of course says. at this point of extremes in the GOP, Duke might have more real support from the core if he were to throw his hood in the ring. I'm sure you'd have some extra to fill his closet void of linens if he were to do so.

[Syd]

i dont think thats what they are tryin to say. At least I hope not. I think what they mean is, why are they all of a sudden making a big deal out of something that happened a bunch of times before and no one ever made a big deal about it. or sayin why didnt we make a bigger deal out of the other ones. I dont think anyone is sayin anything about how they dont care about the people.
Maybe Syd is, cause that shit is wayyyy to long so i only read about 25% of it

No I was saying that people die constantly overseas on diplomatic missions and all of a sudden giving a shit is a joke. People need to either be consistent or just admit that it's a big hullabaloo to try and pin on Obama and no one actually cares about the dead.

[spoon]

Your silence speaks words.


If you oppose intervening in Syria, speak up.

my silence!?

fucking fool, you jump all over and now we're supposed to write our dissertation on any said topic and any branch possible to cover the bases in a conversation with your loopy fucked logic? Sorry WF, you can fuck off and just have fun with your assertions with nothing behind them but your newest bullshit counterpoint bc you failed again.

at this moment with the limited facts as I know them, yes I oppose intervention in Syria

not too tough to say we've been way too involved on a political and world landscape for decades, but again that wasn't the fucking point of our discussion and my counterpoint to your bullshit. Again WF, the reason for being in Lybia was not what you put out there AT ALL and now here we are talking about a HUGE, BROADER off topic overall concept/policy of the US. You're an idiot.

[Bob Impact]

No I was saying that people die constantly overseas on diplomatic missions and all of a sudden giving a shit is a joke. People need to either be consistent or just admit that it's a big hullabaloo to try and pin on Obama and no one actually cares about the dead.

Literally less than a month ago a diplomat died in Afghanistan.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

no matter how many times you say something stupid and beyond the point, it's still stupid

say it again fool

go for it

he lost bc he was a terrible choice and had horrible policy ideas and continues to be a joke in everything he does, touches and of course says. at this point of extremes in the GOP, Duke might have more real support from the core if he were to throw his hood in the ring. I'm sure you'd have some extra to fill his closet void of linens if he were to do so.


The electorate has become dumbed down. Any other time a competent opponent would have smoked his ass in a landslide.

Speaking of sheets, you should change yours.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

my silence!?

fucking fool, you jump all over and now we're supposed to write our dissertation on any said topic and any branch possible to cover the bases in a conversation with your loopy fucked logic? Sorry WF, you can fuck off and just have fun with your assertions with nothing behind them but your newest bullshit counterpoint bc you failed again.

at this moment with the limited facts as I know them, yes I oppose intervention in Syria

not too tough to say we've been way too involved on a political and world landscape for decades, but again that wasn't the fucking point of our discussion and my counterpoint to your bullshit. Again WF, the reason for being in Lybia was not what you put out there AT ALL and now here we are talking about a HUGE, BROADER off topic overall concept/policy of the US. You're an idiot.


Libya was a hornets nest and an illegal involvement by the US because this president violated the war powers act.


Benghazi was bound to happen because after Gadafi was toppled, The flag of Al Qaeda was raised there.

[SonOfSmeagol]

my silence!?

fucking fool, you jump all over and now we're supposed to write our dissertation on any said topic and any branch possible to cover the bases in a conversation with your loopy fucked logic? Sorry WF, you can fuck off and just have fun with your assertions with nothing behind them but your newest bullshit counterpoint bc you failed again.

at this moment with the limited facts as I know them, yes I oppose intervention in Syria

not too tough to say we've been way too involved on a political and world landscape for decades, but again that wasn't the fucking point of our discussion and my counterpoint to your bullshit. Again WF, the reason for being in Lybia was not what you put out there AT ALL and now here we are talking about a HUGE, BROADER off topic overall concept/policy of the US. You're an idiot.

what's up with this toxic name-calling internet bullshit

[WRESTLINGFAN]

With all this Benghazi talk , I feel much safer that a Coptic filmmaker is still in jail

[TripleSkeet]

i dont think thats what they are tryin to say. At least I hope not. I think what they mean is, why are they all of a sudden making a big deal out of something that happened a bunch of times before and no one ever made a big deal about it. or sayin why didnt we make a bigger deal out of the other ones. I dont think anyone is sayin anything about how they dont care about the people.
Maybe Syd is, cause that shit is wayyyy to long so i only read about 25% of it

Because they are so desperate to get the nigger out of office they will cling to anything they can to try and make that happen. Pretty sure I just read the Republicans held a vote for the 37th fucking time to try and repeal Obamacare.

Its horrible that 4 people died. But put it in perspective. 4 Americans died in an unstable foreign country that arent fans of America. It happens all the fucking time. A president isnt going to resign over something miniscule, and yes in the grand scheme of things, its miniscule, like this. Especially considering so many presidents including the one right before him cost thousands of Americans their lives by using lies to perpetuate false wars against non-existant threats.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

The person who was in charge of the Tax exempt group in Cincinatti now runs the Obamacare enforcement department

[WRESTLINGFAN]

WaPo gives Babs Boxer 3 Pinocchios for going on the senate floor for saying that lack of security funding caused the terrorism in Libya

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Anyone see the Joint press conference with the PM of Turkey?

There was a Marine holding an umbrella so Obama wouldn't get some water on him .

Wheres Biden when you need him?

[PapaBear]

WaPo gives Babs Boxer 3 Pinocchios for going on the senate floor for saying that lack of security funding caused the terrorism in Libya
LOL LOLZ WTF, hanso!!!

Don't bother trying to translate. I won't be back to here to see it. I just wish you people (and by "you people" I mean, YOU) would start speaking fucking English.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

The Washington Post uses a ratings system of Pinocchios when politicians lie or give out false info.


I referred to them because they aren't an opinion site like Breitbart. They are the NY Times of the beltway.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

The scandal that can unite the country is the IRS. A huge majority of the country regardless of party affiliation despises that bureaucracy

[spoon]

The electorate has become dumbed down. Any other time a competent opponent would have smoked his ass in a landslide.

Speaking of sheets, you should change yours.

boo...your jokes are worse than you logic and reasoning

if you think the electorate is dumbed down now more than ever, do explain this

oh I already know why you think this, but you don't have the BALLS to actually say it

so now go off and work out an angle hurry

[spoon]

Libya was a hornets nest and an illegal involvement by the US because this president violated the war powers act.


Benghazi was bound to happen because after Gadafi was toppled, The flag of Al Qaeda was raised there.

illegal involvement...ha!

you think this wouldn't be A HUGE ISSUE if this congress had any real reason to believe this AT ALL when it is pushing this Benghazi issue as much as they have with so little to go with...come on. IDIOT!

and again, I answered your question and you didn't have anything for it so here we change tracks and now we're talking about the next gov in Lybia? Oh, I thought we were nation building and yet we let them sort that out even toward an end we don't like. What an odd combination!

[spoon]

what's up with this toxic name-calling internet bullshit

he earned it

either pay attention or fuck yourself if you think you're going to check in every 11 months and come at me for things you have zero clue about

[spoon]

Anyone see the Joint press conference with the PM of Turkey?

There was a Marine holding an umbrella so Obama wouldn't get some water on him .

Wheres Biden when you need him?

sigh

now you're after him for pretty much walking

good stuff

fuck Biden, he wasn't there so he's shit too!

f'n hell, it is talking to WF

[spoon]

The scandal that can unite the country is the IRS. A huge majority of the country regardless of party affiliation despises that bureaucracy

is this the new rallying cry of the hate gov in any capacity crowd? hey, we all hate the IRS right? full of surprises you are!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

is this the new rallying cry of the hate gov in any capacity crowd? hey, we all hate the IRS right? full of surprises you are!


Do you get paid in cash ?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

sigh

now you're after him for pretty much walking

good stuff

fuck Biden, he wasn't there so he's shit too!

f'n hell, it is talking to WF

A few drops of water is going to vaporize him that he needs someone to hold an umbrella ?

What a pansy

[WRESTLINGFAN]

illegal involvement...ha!

you think this wouldn't be A HUGE ISSUE if this congress had any real reason to believe this AT ALL when it is pushing this Benghazi issue as much as they have with so little to go with...come on. IDIOT!

and again, I answered your question and you didn't have anything for it so here we change tracks and now we're talking about the next gov in Lybia? Oh, I thought we were nation building and yet we let them sort that out even toward an end we don't like. What an odd combination!

Yes illegal . Among other violations this constitutional scholar has committed.

We knew in advance that some of those rebels included Al Qaeda and their affiliated groups .

[WRESTLINGFAN]

he earned it

either pay attention or fuck yourself if you think you're going to check in every 11 months and come at me for things you have zero clue about



You earned your title of being a vitriolic twat

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I know the term democracy is tossed around by politicians and the media, but why does Mr Constitutional scholar keep saying that we are a democracy? He mentioned it in his press conf a couple of times yesterday

[Syd]

Because as of right now, the populist legislature is dictating the course of government. Granted, money is now better than votes for House seats but it's still closer to a democracy right now than a republic.

[SonOfSmeagol]

he earned it

either pay attention or fuck yourself if you think you're going to check in every 11 months and come at me for things you have zero clue about

Ugh. don't flatter yourself. The only clue needed is but one of your angry yappy posts. and if you're trying to be funny you ain't. your personal attacks are clearly mean-spirited. like I said: toxic.

[spoon]

Do you get paid in cash ?

nope

[spoon]

A few drops of water is going to vaporize him that he needs someone to hold an umbrella ?

What a pansy

he's the president, not a UFC fighter so I hardly believe the guy is a pussy for keeping himself in order/someone holding an umbrella

it's another in a LONG line of WHO THE FUCK CARES Obama hard on moments for WF

[spoon]

Yes illegal . Among other violations this constitutional scholar has committed.

We knew in advance that some of those rebels included Al Qaeda and their affiliated groups .

of course it is

ranks right up there with his vacation utilization and umbrella policy, yet somehow the GOP let it go and would much rather grasp at straws here...so either your take is completely contrived bullshit, or the GOP just dropped a chance to go at Obama. Yah, I let you all do the math.

[spoon]

You earned your title of being a vitriolic twat

sounds nice

and in regard to you, a badge of honor

:smoke:

[spoon]

I know the term democracy is tossed around by politicians and the media, but why does Mr Constitutional scholar keep saying that we are a democracy? He mentioned it in his press conf a couple of times yesterday

bc it has never been used this way by every single president and politician for decades

more semantics solid ground

[A.J.]

A few drops of water is going to vaporize him that he needs someone to hold an umbrella ?

What a pansy

he's the president, not a UFC fighter so I hardly believe the guy is a pussy for keeping himself in order/someone holding an umbrella

it's another in a LONG line of WHO THE FUCK CARES Obama hard on moments for WF

WF is a former Marine and I think he was making light of the fact that the Marines, and the Army as well, are not permitted to use umbrellas when in uniform.

Sorry for being nerdy like that.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

he's the president, not a UFC fighter so I hardly believe the guy is a pussy for keeping himself in order/someone holding an umbrella

it's another in a LONG line of WHO THE FUCK CARES Obama hard on moments for WF



Mr Big badass who smokes people out with drones is so delicate that he needs an umbrella held by a marine?

It wasn't raining that hard. Besides like he doesn't have another suit to put on after the press conference?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

WF is a former Marine and I think he was making light of the fact that the Marines, and the Army as well, are not permitted to use umbrellas when in uniform.

Sorry for being nerdy like that.


Exactly

If anything they can't find a canopy or awning ?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

bc it has never been used this way by every single president and politician for decades

more semantics solid ground



I acknowledged that it's been used by others but it's still incorrect

Barack is supposed to be Mr Constitution. I guess article 4 section 4 was in fine print

[WRESTLINGFAN]

of course it is

ranks right up there with his vacation utilization and umbrella policy, yet somehow the GOP let it go and would much rather grasp at straws here...so either your take is completely contrived bullshit, or the GOP just dropped a chance to go at Obama. Yah, I let you all do the math.



You've never seen me bash these pussy republicans?

[spoon]

Ugh. don't flatter yourself. The only clue needed is but one of your angry yappy posts. and if you're trying to be funny you ain't. your personal attacks are clearly mean-spirited. like I said: toxic.

flatter myself? do point out where I did that!? or tried to be funny?

as for the rest, not sure I denied it ONCE, much less didn't indulge in the fact I lay into the fucking bullshit artist spewing shit all day long all over this board and surely many many many others.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ZuiaQt7p1YI/UMUQm-WVQlI/AAAAAAAAAy4/l5TF0yzt2RA/s1600/puking.gif

[spoon]

WF is a former Marine and I think he was making light of the fact that the Marines, and the Army as well, are not permitted to use umbrellas when in uniform.

Sorry for being nerdy like that.

surely that truly wasn't his angle, much less did he remember this

it was another attack on the POTUS and if he said what you did it would have been a completely different discussion...but again, look at the original post and his reply to me. that was NOT what he meant, but he'll probably take your out. yet there is a HUGE difference bt a marine using it for themselves or to help cover a dignitary, much less our prez. not saying I agree or not, but these are not one in the same either.

[spoon]

Mr Big badass who smokes people out with drones is so delicate that he needs an umbrella held by a marine?

It wasn't raining that hard. Besides like he doesn't have another suit to put on after the press conference?

see, no real point just bullshit ire that deflates any true issues you may have

par for the WF course

[spoon]

Exactly

If anything they can't find a canopy or awning ?

EXACTLY?!

why you are quite the liar too I see

BULLSHIT that had ANYTHING to do with your take...and there are now three fucking posts to show it before you got to AJ's post and you say "exactly" !?

hilarious again :lol:

[spoon]

I acknowledged that it's been used by others but it's still incorrect

Barack is supposed to be Mr Constitution. I guess article 4 section 4 was in fine print

oh man, I guess it was

[spoon]

You've never seen me bash these pussy republicans?

has nothing to do with the point

nothing

UNLESS you are claiming they are dropping the ball here without actually keeping on topic and straying hard left with your eyes closed. Regroup here WF, is this your claim?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

surely that truly wasn't his angle, much less did he remember this

it was another attack on the POTUS and if he said what you did it would have been a completely different discussion...but again, look at the original post and his reply to me. that was NOT what he meant, but he'll probably take your out. yet there is a HUGE difference bt a marine using it for themselves or to help cover a dignitary, much less our prez. not saying I agree or not, but these are not one in the same either.

Sure Sgt Spoon. I'll trust your knowledge of military etiquette being in the 101st Keyboard brigade

If Mr Smartest president didn't know that then he is to be attacked, plus he looks foolish and opens himself up to attack. Someone doesn't go to 12 weeks of hell to hold an umbrella

He's president. He's not a king

[WRESTLINGFAN]

EXACTLY?!

why you are quite the liar too I see

BULLSHIT that had ANYTHING to do with your take...and there are now three fucking posts to show it before you got to AJ's post and you say "exactly" !?

hilarious again :lol:


Amazing people like you who wouldn't survive 2weeks in girl scout camp is questioning my knowledge of military customs and etiquette

It's not hilarious , it's pathetic

[WRESTLINGFAN]

has nothing to do with the point

nothing

UNLESS you are claiming they are dropping the ball here without actually keeping on topic and straying hard left with your eyes closed. Regroup here WF, is this your claim?

Will water vaporize Barack?

He looked like a pussy out there. Furthermore a Marine had to hold an umbrella for a foreign head of state.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Never knew we had a diva as president

[A.J.]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ZuiaQt7p1YI/UMUQm-WVQlI/AAAAAAAAAy4/l5TF0yzt2RA/s1600/puking.gif

Get out of the street ya fuckin' bum!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

How about the guards at the tomb of the unknowns have umbrellas? We could have them emerge from inside the barrels of the rifles they hold

[spoon]

Amazing people like you who wouldn't survive 2weeks in girl scout camp is questioning my knowledge of military customs and etiquette

It's not hilarious , it's pathetic

people like me? you have zero clue and I didn't question your knowledge of military customs you assfuck, I completely dismiss your intentions of said post had ANYTHING to do with AJ's take. It's extremely hilarious, but now let's attempt to play this game.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

nope


Where does the IRS rank out of your favorite bureaucracies

[spoon]

Sure Sgt Spoon. I'll trust your knowledge of military etiquette being in the 101st Keyboard brigade

If Mr Smartest president didn't know that then he is to be attacked, plus he looks foolish and opens himself up to attack. Someone doesn't go to 12 weeks of hell to hold an umbrella

He's president. He's not a king

for fuck's sake you're an idiot since you're even TRYING to go this route

ok wf, you were speaking on the etiquette of marine policy...sure thing fuckwad

12 weeks of hell to serve their country and who might I ask is the top of the chain of command oh military wizard?

[spoon]

How about the guards at the tomb of the unknowns have umbrellas? We could have them emerge from inside the barrels of the rifles they hold

par for the course

your ideas are ludicrous attempts as tying in and fall on their face like everything you attempt

[spoon]

Where does the IRS rank out of your favorite bureaucracies

what a stupid question

[WRESTLINGFAN]

for fuck's sake you're an idiot since you're even TRYING to go this route

ok wf, you were speaking on the etiquette of marine policy...sure thing fuckwad

12 weeks of hell to serve their country and who might I ask is the top of the chain of command oh military wizard?


The commander in chief can not give unlawful orders no matter how small they are.

That means he can't send in a Marine to cut the line when he goes out for a five guys run

[WRESTLINGFAN]

par for the course

your ideas are ludicrous attempts as tying in and fall on their face like everything you attempt



When you're talking about Obama it's definitely par for the course since his 2nd home is on the links

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I'm done talking about umbrellas

Back to the IRS . Enough of these promises of more transparency and offering half hearted apologies

Gut that bureaucracy, Kill the 16th amendment. But why do that? Instead grow the government , add more pages to the tax laws and then get pissed that there are these loopholes and 501 and 527's

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I bought a couple of powerball games last night

It's 550 Million. That's a cash value of 350 mill

Between fed and CT state tax , if I'm the sole winner I'll have to pay over 110 million on my earnings
Is that enough for a fair share ?

I would go the Cayman and Swiss bank route. Starve this govt as much as possible!!

[Syd]

You can't really do that with income like that. The game is rigged to keep people from moving up the ladder.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

It's up to 600 million. I'm not going to hold it in all cash especially with these rates

All that money can buy me some good accountants

[hanso]

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcReBSDvm640Dzy627QW-Yf3pgIXTpRIy_JefEuUXLNepwnr9fiqY0VzlQ

[Snoogans]

I bought a couple of powerball games last night

It's 550 Million. That's a cash value of 350 mill

Between fed and CT state tax , if I'm the sole winner I'll have to pay over 110 million on my earnings
Is that enough for a fair share ?

I would go the Cayman and Swiss bank route. Starve this govt as much as possible!!

im pretty sure you miscalculated the taxes, unless CT has no lotto tax which still would usually only apply to CT only games.

Right now, at 600, the cash lump sum is 376 million. The highest federal tax bracket is 39.8% right now. In NJ, the highest tax bracket is 10%. So knocks 49% off of 376 mill.

You are lookin at a tax bill of somewhere around 185 million

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I did a quick calculation of federal 25% and state tax of 6.7 % based on the old amount of 350 before it went up. It was around 111 million. The new amount is about 120 million

The tax rates are from usamega.com

To my surprise California has no state income tax

[Snoogans]

I did a quick calculation of federal 25% and state tax of 6.7 % based on the old amount of 350 before it went up. It was around 111 million. The new amount is about 120 million

The tax rates are from usamega.com

To my surprise California has no state income tax

those are the rates they withhold when they give you your money. those arent your tax rates, fool. You have to pay it at income tax bracket levels. As if you earned it. That much money puts you in the highest brackets. Your hit is gonna be like 49%

[Snoogans]

and California is a different set of rules for its lotto. Its very confusing but they only allow you to win money that was raised in california, so thats why they dont tax it. You wouldnt get the full 600 if you bought the ticket in cali

[Dude!]

To my surprise California has no state income tax

Huh?


Tax Bracket (Single) Marginal Tax Rate
$0+ 1.00%
$7,124+ 2.00%
$16,890+ 4.00%
$26,657+ 6.00%
$37,005+ 8.00%
$46,766+ 9.30%
$1,000,000+ 10.30%

[Snoogans]

Huh?


Tax Bracket (Single) Marginal Tax Rate
$0+ 1.00%
$7,124+ 2.00%
$16,890+ 4.00%
$26,657+ 6.00%
$37,005+ 8.00%
$46,766+ 9.30%
$1,000,000+ 10.30%

he was referring to just the lotto i believe.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Should have clarified that.

No one ever gets the advertised amount. I think it's based on an annuity. If I was to be the sole winner, based in CT I'm looking at a payout of a little over 257 million after taxes. States with no state tax on lottery winnings are looking at 282 million. Some have a non resident rate if you buy it there and live in another state.


In any case I know it takes no effort to buy a ticket but damn that's still a shitload of taxes

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Huh?


Tax Bracket (Single) Marginal Tax Rate
$0+ 1.00%
$7,124+ 2.00%
$16,890+ 4.00%
$26,657+ 6.00%
$37,005+ 8.00%
$46,766+ 9.30%
$1,000,000+ 10.30%

No wonder Tiger Woods lives in FL

[Snoogans]

Should have clarified that.

No one ever gets the advertised amount. I think it's based on an annuity. If I was to be the sole winner, based in CT I'm looking at a payout of a little over 257 million after taxes. States with no state tax on lottery winnings are looking at 282 million. Some have a non resident rate if you buy it there and live in another state.


In any case I know it takes no effort to buy a ticket but damn that's still a shitload of taxes

no dude, you are wrong. Even on annuity, you would still pay in the highest tax bracket. You just get more money cause they dont lop off 40% of it at the beginning. Trust me you are massively underestimating the tax bill

[Pitdoc]

I bought a couple of powerball games last night

It's 550 Million. That's a cash value of 350 mill

Between fed and CT state tax , if I'm the sole winner I'll have to pay over 110 million on my earnings
Is that enough for a fair share ?

I would go the Cayman and Swiss bank route. Starve this govt as much as possible!!

Unfortunately, they take all the taxes out even BEFORE they hand you the check .Still, its about 257 million after cash value & Fed/Conn taxes. I live in NY state, but wouldn't even think about my palace overlooking Central Park until next year, because if I moved there before Jan 1, NYC would want 9%
of my total winnings

A site called USA Mega breaks down all the taxes taken out by state

[Snoogans]

Unfortunately, they take all the taxes out even BEFORE they hand you the check .Still, its about 257 million after cash value & Fed/Conn taxes. I live in NY state, but wouldn't even think about my palace overlooking Central Park until next year, because if I moved there before Jan 1, NYC would want 9%
of my total winnings

A site called USA Mega breaks down all the taxes taken out by state

thats the taxes the state takes out at the time you get your winnings. thats not the total taxes you owe at the end of that year.

[PapaBear]

thats the taxes the state takes out at the time you get your winnings. thats not the total taxes you owe at the end of that year.
I'm pretty sure the IRS takes their money up front, too.

[PapaBear]

Now that I think of it, my sister went through the tax deal. It was only $50,000, so not quite the same thing. The IRS didn't take it right away. But she contacted them and asked what she owed. She also asked if she owed anything from past years unrelated to the winnings. They gave her a total (she didn't have to wait until tax time), and she paid it. Unfortunately for her, even though they said what she owed from the past, they later came back and said they found something they had overlooked. Of course, all of the money was gone by then.

[Snoogans]

I'm pretty sure the IRS takes their money up front, too.

when you win a lotto thing, the feds withhold 25%. The states it varies. Thats what they withhold upfront. That doesnt mean thats all you owe. At the end of the year, when you file taxes, you have to pay the difference being you move to a higher tax bracket (this is obviously only for lotto winnings that move you to a higher tax bracket)

If you took lump sum tomorrow, 380 mill say. They will take 25% of it right then for taxes. You will have to pay the other 19.8% at the end of the year

[PapaBear]

Ouch

[Pitdoc]

thats the taxes the state takes out at the time you get your winnings. thats not the total taxes you owe at the end of that year.

Yes the Feds take their money upfront too. That website breaks down how much both the Feds & each individual state take for each drawing . It works out to about 43% of whatever the whole Jackpot is if you take Lump sum.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

The money the Feds take and depending what state you're in is more than a fair share

Plus the taxes don't end there. If you decide to buy property and collect rental income , invest and receive cap gains , dividends etc then that's more taxes.

If I win, the 1st thing I'm doing is shopping around for the best accountant

[Pitdoc]

The money the Feds take and depending what state you're in is more than a fair share

Plus the taxes don't end there. If you decide to buy property and collect rental income , invest and receive cap gains , dividends etc then that's more taxes.

If I win, the 1st thing I'm doing is shopping around for the best accountant

The first thing you do when you win is DON'T TELL ANYONE . My lottery fantasies as so detailed & paranoid that all I think about is ;

A- Which of the meth heads in my rural area is going to break into my house and kill me for obviously storing gold bars in my house ?

2- Will the town council in my small town suddenly impose a local, one-year-only income tax just to siphon off a few million?

III - How can I collect my winnings without giving out my real name( it varies state by state) ?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Depending on what state you live in , you can choose to remain anonymous , others require that you are made public.

[spoon]

States Rights!

[Syd]

County rights!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

No county tax here in CT

However I will pay a 9 figure tax bill btwn Fed and State if I am the sole winner.

Can't remain anonymous , if I should win I'll wear one of those Groucho Marx disguises

[SonOfSmeagol]

IRS has Lotteries Unit to determine fair share based on who wins

[Snoogans]

Yes the Feds take their money upfront too. That website breaks down how much both the Feds & each individual state take for each drawing . It works out to about 43% of whatever the whole Jackpot is if you take Lump sum.

no. What they withhold at the beginning is not what you end up owing. Your total bill is based on the state you live in. In NJ, it would be 49.8%

[Snoogans]

five—New Hampshire, Tennessee, Texas, South Dakota and Washington —don’t have a state income tax. Should a resident of one of those states be the sole winner, he or she will have to fork over 35% to Uncle Sam —or $ 136 $161.7 million. (That 35% is the top rate on ordinary income, such as wages, and gambling winnings are taxed as ordinary income. Note: Some readers are confused by the fact that Mega Millions only withholds 25% federal tax. But I’m sorry to report that you still owe tax at the 35% rate.)

This was written before the highest tax bracket bumped back up to 39.8. Now that its 39.8, thats how much you owe to the feds.

In NJ, the highest is 10%. So basically, you are gonna lose half

[WRESTLINGFAN]

No wonder the tax laws should be overhauled

[Snoogans]

No wonder the tax laws should be overhauled

in fairness, Its not as hard to swallow when its money you didnt really do anything for. Id be alot more pissed that I had to pay 49% in taxes if I was working for the money rather than if I bought 10 bucks in tickets and won 400 mill.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I agree it takes no effort to pick numbers or get a quick pick but man, that's still a lot to fork up

Dividends and cap gains are taxed different than salaried income however if you're killing the market that's even more to pay up

[WRESTLINGFAN]

If nobody hits the jackpot, some reports are that it could hit a billion for Wednesdays drawing

[hanso]

Will any these controversies bring Obama or another member of his admin down?

If it had happened under Bush the head of the offending agency would have been transferred and promoted.

That is if there was anything to these things which there is not.

[Snoogans]

If nobody hits the jackpot, some reports are that it could hit a billion for Wednesdays drawing

i cant imagine someone wont win. Im pretty sure they are gonna sell so many tickets someone will have to

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Just like the woman in this administration who got promoted to run
the Obamacare enforcement division


We had a treasury sec in Geithner in which the IRS reports to, that was unable to report his own taxes correctly?

There are Monsanto execs in leadership of the ag dept

I'll admit, this happens whoever is president. Let's not dismiss that the Obama admin is innocent

[WRESTLINGFAN]

i cant imagine someone wont win. Im pretty sure they are gonna sell so many tickets someone will have to



There might be a couple of top prizes. I remember the big jackpot for mega in November had that.
I saw on the news that some people waited for hours to buy their tickets. I was in and out of my local stationary store in less than 2 minutes, those hour long lines are probably in rural areas where there are limited places to buy.

[Snoogans]

There might be a couple of top prizes. I remember the big jackpot for mega in November had that.
I saw on the news that some people waited for hours to buy their tickets. I was in and out of my local stationary store in less than 2 minutes, those hour long lines are probably in rural areas where there are limited places to buy.

no, they are most likely in border towns or cities next to states that dont have powerball. Remember the fuckin lines they used to get in CT all over before NY and NJ had it

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Also most likely in states where's there's no income tax / non resident tax

[Snoogans]

Also most likely in states where's there's no income tax / non resident tax

that doesnt matter cause you dont live there. If I drove to a state that had no income tax to buy the ticket, I would still have to pay state taxes to NJ cause I live there. It might be a bit less cause it wasnt in the state, same as how working in a different state is, but you still have to pay something

[SonOfSmeagol]

If it had happened under Bush the head of the offending agency would have been transferred and promoted.

That is if there was anything to these things which there is not.

so...what's your point then
:unsure:

[hanso]

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After taking her viewers through the whole, long, ugly mess with ABC's big "scoop" on the Benghazi emails and the how the story pretty much fizzled out by the end of the week with the discovery that Republicans were responsible for doctoring the supposed quotes from the emails that they published, Rachel Maddow gave her two cents on ABC still protecting the sources who lied to them.

MADDOW: And now, part of the scandal here is a press scandal. You know what? When you get used like this and you end up publishing false information, false quotes, you have to correct it. But the bigger scandal here is not a process matter, not a press matter. There's a very stark fact that somebody in Congress right now, or somebody working for somebody in Congress right now, a staffer, concocted a big lie to try to make the White House look very desperately bad on this Benghazi scandal that they otherwise have not been able to get traction on.

Who told the lie? And a note to my journalist pals who got involved in this scandal. If your source lied to you, they are not actually a source. They are a con artist and you are their victim. It means you don't have to protect them any more. They're not a source.

When you get lied to, when you are a tool of somebody else's deception, when you get lied to, the person lying to you is no longer a source, they are news. Their lie to you is itself news and you can report that news. Republican Congressional offices shopped a false dossier as if it was a White House email. That is a story. The office and the staffers and the members of Congress maybe who did that... that is news. And if you know who it is, you can say so.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

i cant imagine someone wont win. Im pretty sure they are gonna sell so many tickets someone will have to



1 Winner in central Florida. Is it CJ 13 ?

[hanso]

Rove says his super PAC is same as NAACP because it’s for ‘social welfare’

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/05/19/rove-says-his-super-pac-is-same-as-naacp-because-its-for-social-welfare/

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Rove's PAC should be called anything but super. Over 300 million raised and an awful election rate

[epo]

No county tax here in CT

However I will pay a 9 figure tax bill btwn Fed and State if I am the sole winner.

Can't remain anonymous , if I should win I'll wear one of those Groucho Marx disguises

Wait, if you won a $590 lottery you'd have a 9 figure tax bill? Your generosity knows no bounds.

[epo]

Rove says his super PAC is same as NAACP because it’s for ‘social welfare’

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/05/19/rove-says-his-super-pac-is-same-as-naacp-because-its-for-social-welfare/

The abuses of the 501c4 program by political groups of either side is outrageous.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Wait, if you won a $590 lottery you'd have a 9 figure tax bill? Your generosity knows no bounds.



Your argument that the government will let you keep done is why these tax laws need a sledgehammer
To them

[SonOfSmeagol]

Your argument that the government will let you keep done is why these tax laws need a sledgehammer
To them

he didn't say that. but how funny would it be for you of all people to have to fork over a couple 100M to the gov't. you'd have last laugh though

[WRESTLINGFAN]

James Rosen of Fox news named as criminal co conspirator by DoJ in regards to a story about North Korea in 2009. The Feds tracked his email and visits to State dept

[brettmojo]

James Rosen of Fox news named as criminal co conspirator by DoJ in regards to a story about North Korea in 2009. The Feds tracked his email and visits to State dept

He must be innocent. He's not Mexican. Hope they find the Mexican behind this.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

He must be innocent. He's not Mexican. Hope they find the Mexican behind this.



Jaime Rosario

[WRESTLINGFAN]

How does the smartest president ever not know until he sees it on the news?

CEOs are held accountable via Sarbannes Oxley. Time to use the same method for the president

He's the Chief Executive of the federal govt

[SonOfSmeagol]

James Rosen of Fox news named as criminal co conspirator by DoJ in regards to a story about North Korea in 2009. The Feds tracked his email and visits to State dept

This is really bad. No one in media - left or right - is giving Os DOJ cover on this one. Might be it for holder.

[Dude!]

Obama seems to be very happy
about the devastation in Oklahoma
...almost giddy

Sandy saved him last October
the tornado won't

[spoon]

How does the smartest president ever not know until he sees it on the news?

CEOs are held accountable via Sarbannes Oxley. Time to use the same method for the president

He's the Chief Executive of the federal govt

yes, clearly the same thing

:wallbash:

what a precedent you'd like to set

as if this gov and the parties don't go after each other enough, now you think this makes sense

[SonOfSmeagol]

yes, clearly the same thing

:wallbash:

what a precedent you'd like to set

as if this gov and the parties don't go after each other enough, now you think this makes sense



Really? What specific provisions of SOX can't be tailored or adjusted to the gov't to help it be more accountable and responsible?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

yes, clearly the same thing

:wallbash:

what a precedent you'd like to set

as if this gov and the parties don't go after each other enough, now you think this makes sense


Yes really. If an agency was cooking the books and the President signed off. Funding for next FY gets cut.


Obama couldn't wait to announce to the world about bin laden , but these other issues he's Forrest Obama.


He should keep his inner circle with him on the golf course


Then again the government has cheating and stealing down to a science

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Obama seems to be very happy
about the devastation in Oklahoma
...almost giddy

Sandy saved him last October
the tornado won't


He might just slip away again. Yesterday's poll his approval rating was still over 50%


He could sell nuke secrets to Al Qaeda and the low info voters would still defend him

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Lizz Winstead co creator of the daily show was happy about the tornado but she offered an apology after how destructive it was. I know she's not a politician but it won't get 24/7 coverage like some obscure congressman said wetback on some cut rate Alaska radio station

[spoon]

never heard that, but if she did it's pathetic at best

yet what does the level or area of a radio station have to do with a congressman saying something SOOOOOOoooo fucking racist and stupid. he dug his own there, the station has nothing to do with it outside of the venue this idiot chose to expose himself with. and a major difference here is one is a writer/comedian, the other is a politician. how dumb can you be (congressman)?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Those people in Oklahoma aren't a protected class . That's why it will get no coverage

[WRESTLINGFAN]

The Senate Majority leader said Barack didn't have negro dialect . That lasted about 5 minutes

[spoon]

The Senate Majority leader said Barack didn't have negro dialect . That lasted about 5 minutes

first, this makes what another said fine?

second, it's called what you routinely fight for and your past that comes into play as well. we all say stupid shit, ESPECIALLY YOU, but some come from a better foundation on certain issues. yet, there is a clear difference between saying some people have a way of speaking versus a racial slur.

[spoon]

Those people in Oklahoma aren't a protected class . That's why it will get no coverage

not protected? I'd beg to differ they sure as shit get a LOT of gov money and are pretty much on the take plenty themselves...perhaps not this specific locations, but surely PLENTY in Oklahoma are. Also, it got plenty of coverage and continues to. Yet they'll get their FEMA funding bc the coasts won't play/shouldn't play politics with these events. Sandy, fuck the coverage, how about the support. And again, big difference in size and scope of each event so again, nice try.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

first, this makes what another said fine?

second, it's called what you routinely fight for and your past that comes into play as well. we all say stupid shit, ESPECIALLY YOU, but some come from a better foundation on certain issues. yet, there is a clear difference between saying some people have a way of speaking versus a racial slur.


It's a double standard . Fluke is called a slut then it gets 24/7 Coverage. Some unfunny cunt makes a joke about loss of property and life hardly any coverage

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Stupid shit you or I say doesn't affect millions of people . For example blaming a YouTube video or saying a country had WMD.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

not protected? I'd beg to differ they sure as shit get a LOT of gov money and are pretty much on the take plenty themselves...perhaps not this specific locations, but surely PLENTY in Oklahoma are. Also, it got plenty of coverage and continues to. Yet they'll get their FEMA funding bc the coasts won't play/shouldn't play politics with these events. Sandy, fuck the coverage, how about the support. And again, big difference in size and scope of each event so again, nice try.



Those people in Oklahoma are taxpayers who lost everything. They pay for big bureaucracies. Now they probably get more back from DC than they pay into as many red states do , that's more of a reason to scrap these tax laws


Yes illegals are protected. If a white guy gets his head bashed in, it won't get the coverage like if an illegal gets his head bashed.

Illegals have a huge grievance lobby representing them from getting their deportations stopped to making sure they go on the dole

[Dude!]

The Senate Majority leader said Barack didn't have negro dialect . That lasted about 5 minutes

Biden said he was very clean--
for a black man

[WRESTLINGFAN]

If Jackson castrated Obama it wouldn't be news. Black on black crime hardly is

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Tomorrow should be interesting

Lois Lerner is going to plead the 5th

[KnoxHarrington]

The abuses of the 501c4 program by political groups of either side is outrageous.


I'm really afraid that after this, the already piss-poor regulation these non-profits are getting will get even worse.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Why is it so damn difficult to scrap our tax system and gut the IRS ? No more citizens united, loopholes , shell corps and offshore accounts


I know. We need a big bloated tax system with a giant bureaucracy to keep growing the government

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Sheryl Atkissons computer hacked by the feds according to Politico

Obama must be praying for another natural disaster

[hanso]

citizens united should have been a big blinking light. But you say work around it oookeey

[SonOfSmeagol]

I'm really afraid that after this, the already piss-poor regulation these non-profits are getting will get even worse.

Small potatoes. First fix the gov't targeting it's political enemies while at the same time smoothing the way for it's friends. Then look at fixing the same bloated, hugely inefficient govt so it can actually do its job while being held accountable.

[SonOfSmeagol]

citizens united should have been a big blinking light. But you say work around it oookeey

Irrelevant. Lame attempt to try to spin the conservatives into the turd pie that's all O's.

[Syd]

Small potatoes. First fix the gov't targeting it's political enemies while at the same time smoothing the way for it's friends. Then look at fixing the same bloated, hugely inefficient govt so it can actually do its job while being held accountable.

Actually a big reason the whole "scandal" happened was because the IRS was understaffed at that office.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

That's a creative excuse

[epo]

Actually a big reason the whole "scandal" happened was because the IRS was understaffed at that office.

But that's the GOP gimmick. Underfund an area you want to change, then blame that area for being "inefficient" and call for "reform".

Its the best con going today...

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Government offices understaffed ?

That's hysterical.


Understaffed means dead weight paper pushers doing nothing while a couple of people pick up the slack

[SonOfSmeagol]

But that's the GOP gimmick. Underfund an area you want to change, then blame that area for being "inefficient" and call for "reform".

Its the best con going today...

That's a questionable generalization. esp in this case where the dems controlled congress and the pursestrings for two years before this targeting started

[Syd]

That's a questionable generalization. esp in this case where the dems controlled congress and the pursestrings for two years before this targeting started

Good thing the world is entirely static and there wasn't an astroturf campaign that suddenly created a litany of groups that were overtly political sounding who don't understand tax code who began inundating an IRS office with applications!

[SonOfSmeagol]

Good thing the world is entirely static and there wasn't an astroturf campaign that suddenly created a litany of groups that were overtly political sounding who don't understand tax code who began inundating an IRS office with applications!

understaffed and underworked, yet O's Foundation got quick attention. Meanwhile, that same stressed-out office found time to ask ridiculous, exhaustive questions of: conservative groups.

IRS stalled conservative groups, but gave speedy approval to Obama foundation (http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/irs-stalled-conservative-groups-but-gave-speedy-approval-to-obama-foundation/2013/05/16/90c53e8a-be57-11e2-89c9-3be8095fe767_story.html)

Probing questions, long delays for tea party groups (http://www.cnn.com/2013/05/16/politics/tea-party-irs/)

I'm not saying it was systemic and malicious, cause that's not clear yet, but this targeting and overreach in IRS and elsewhere has gotta be fixed and the non-answers so far aren't helping!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Shulman was asked about his 118 visits to the WH and his best answer was for the Easter egg roll

He's probably been there more than Dick Trumka

Lois Lerner should resign. Her performance was an embarrassment

[Snoogans]

you guys are still talkin about this? I guess Obama's tornado didnt do its job. Thanks, guys. I cant wait for the earthquake next week now

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Barack should spend less time on the links , fund raising and partying with A listers and more time being an executive. Maybe , just maybe he will find things out before he "hears about it in the media "

[SonOfSmeagol]

you guys are still talkin about this? I guess Obama's tornado didnt do its job. Thanks, guys. I cant wait for the earthquake next week now

definitely! when he said he first heard about the tornado from the press I just wasn't buying it

[spoon]

Barack should spend less time on the links , fund raising and partying with A listers and more time being an executive. Maybe , just maybe he will find things out before he "hears about it in the media "

sigh :dry:

[Syd]

Maybe , just maybe he will find things out before he "hears about it in the media "

So he should break the law that specifically prevents interaction between the IRS and the executive branch?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

So he should break the law that specifically prevents interaction between the IRS and the executive branch?



No , we should have a president who knows how to be an executive

Speaking of breaking the law. Obama has broken the law numerous times

[Syd]

understaffed and underworked, yet O's Foundation got quick attention. Meanwhile, that same stressed-out office found time to ask ridiculous, exhaustive questions of: conservative groups.

IRS stalled conservative groups, but gave speedy approval to Obama foundation (http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/irs-stalled-conservative-groups-but-gave-speedy-approval-to-obama-foundation/2013/05/16/90c53e8a-be57-11e2-89c9-3be8095fe767_story.html)

Probing questions, long delays for tea party groups (http://www.cnn.com/2013/05/16/politics/tea-party-irs/)

I'm not saying it was systemic and malicious, cause that's not clear yet, but this targeting and overreach in IRS and elsewhere has gotta be fixed and the non-answers so far aren't helping!

First article is hot, steaming garbage:

The IRS approved charitable status for the foundation, which was run by President Obama’s brother and named after his father, in about a month’s time. The IRS also agreed to give the group this important financial status retroactively, back to 2009, when it had begun its fundraising.

So, a social welfare group that has a tax status that prohibits mainly political activity didn't raise any red flags for audits for a group named after a person; yet a social welfare group that has openly political sounding names did have red flags raised?

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/113217/irs-tea-party-scandal-conservative-political-correctness-action#

anyway, that's a good article from an accounting perspective and not a perspective of fundraising and 2014 elections

[Syd]

No , we should have a president who knows how to be an executive

Speaking of breaking the law. Obama has broken the law numerous times

good thing you have proof of this! you should send it into the news and get some appearance fees

[WRESTLINGFAN]

good thing you have proof of this! you should send it into the news and get some appearance fees



Violating bankruptcy laws in the GM bailout, circumventing congress by giving illegals amnesty, not getting congressional consent for attacking Libya, just to name a few

[Syd]

Violating bankruptcy laws in the GM bailout, circumventing congress by giving illegals amnesty, not getting congressional consent for attacking Libya, just to name a few

What bankruptcy laws were violated?

How has he given illegals amnesty?

What consent was necessary for attacking Libya?

[hanso]

What bankruptcy laws were violated?

How has he given illegals amnesty?

What consent was necessary for attacking Libya?

All these questions and more will be answered in the the right wing nut conspiracy round up coming up!

No offense WF it emanates from some hellish cesspool then goes right up to the floor of the house and senate.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Bond holders were screwed over

An executive order was issued last year

He violated the war powers act

[WRESTLINGFAN]

All these questions and more will be answered in the the right wing nut conspiracy round up coming up!

No offense WF it emanates from some hellish cesspool then goes right up to the floor of the house and senate.


Actually presidents can not make law. There's this legislative body that has 2 chambers called the House and Senate

Tell me again how this president is as pure as fresh fallen snow

[WRESTLINGFAN]

There were hearings this week that Apple dodged taxes by having offshore shell corporations.

The Senators were angry about that, but do those useless fossils realize that the same laws they write causes companies to keep their cash outside the US ?

[Pitdoc]

There were hearings this week that Apple dodged taxes by having offshore shell corporations.

The Senators were angry about that, but do those useless fossils realize that the same laws they write causes companies to keep their cash outside the US ?

ANGRY about it? Every senator was doing their best to BLOW the Apple president , like if they did he'd give them a free IPad.

[disneyspy]

ANGRY about it? Every senator was doing their best to BLOW the Apple president , like if they did he'd give them a free IPad.

no shit,that piece on jon stewart's show was hilarious

[sailor]

There were hearings this week that Apple dodged taxes by having offshore shell corporations.

The Senators were angry about that, but do those useless fossils realize that the same laws they write causes companies to keep their cash outside the US ?

Really crazy it's cheaper to borrow cash than bring their own money into the country.

[hanso]

Actually presidents can not make law. There's this legislative body that has 2 chambers called the House and Senate

Tell me again how this president is as pure as fresh fallen snow

My point was that it gets to that level and there is loony comments made by them just about every day.

[Syd]

Bond holders were screwed over

What laws were violated, the law against screwing bond holders?

An executive order was issued last year

Which executive order, and how was it illegal?

He violated the war powers act

How so?
http://www.loc.gov/law/help/war-powers.php

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Using the excuse that it was done under NATO and leading from behind still doesn't give Obama to circumvent congress


Obama is not an Emperor, King or Emir

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Federal bankruptcy laws. Again bond holders were screwed over

Only congress can pass laws on immigration and naturalization. Executive orders don't give a free pass for any president to do whatever he wants. Obama violated the constitution by granting amnesty by allowing certain illegals to stay here

The president is Commander in chief but it's congress who can declare war or give the president an authorization


If Obama wants to rule by executive fiat, let him in some third world banana republic

[hanso]

Using the excuse that it was done under NATO and leading from behind still doesn't give Obama to circumvent congress


Obama is not an Emperor, King or Emir

leading from behind??? Let's see when you start a preemptive war with a nation that had nothing to do with our own national tragedy loosing more of our finest that died in said event. That would be up front and center.

[hanso]

Federal bankruptcy laws. Again bond holders were screwed over

Only congress can pass laws on immigration and naturalization. Executive orders don't give a free pass for any president to do whatever he wants. Obama violated the constitution by granting amnesty by allowing certain illegals to stay here

The president is Commander in chief but it's congress who can declare war or give the president an authorization


If Obama wants to rule by executive fiat, let him in some third world banana republic

And the sate of Arizona

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Iraq and Afghanistan are big failures and will cost us trillions


However Dubya did get authorization from both houses. It does not change the overall result but he followed the procedures


Now I wish we would actually go back to getting formal war declarations

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Arizona can't deport illegals , They still have to hand them over to the Feds to boot them

[Syd]

Federal bankruptcy laws. Again bond holders were screwed over

Only congress can pass laws on immigration and naturalization. Executive orders don't give a free pass for any president to do whatever he wants. Obama violated the constitution by granting amnesty by allowing certain illegals to stay here

The president is Commander in chief but it's congress who can declare war or give the president an authorization


If Obama wants to rule by executive fiat, let him in some third world banana republic

alright well if you're not going to do it, I am going to go let Fox News know about this. I'm pretty sure I will get a TV deal out of blowing the lid off of that. I am looking forward to seeing an ombudsman take down Obama for violating the federal bankruptcy law by screwing over bondholders, violating the constitution by issuing an executive order that granted amnesty to certain illegals and declaring war, or maybe not asking for authorization and maybe violating the war powers act which realistically only applies when war is declared

[hanso]

Iraq and Afghanistan are big failures and will cost us trillions


However Dubya did get authorization from both houses. It does not change the overall result but he followed the procedures


Now I wish we would actually go back to getting formal war declarations

Have cost us, it was off books, no longer the case after Bush left office.

There is none of the war declaration going back to ww2
I'm talking about "boots on ground" Vs your so called 'lead from behind'

Arizona can't deport illegals , They still have to hand them over to the Feds to boot them

You are the one that brought up Only congress can pass laws on immigration and naturalization. In which Arizona went and did what they pleased with.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Yes it has cost us with the outlying factors to rehab vets with PTSD and other injuries.

Obama put the wars on the books .

I stand corrected on the immigration laws. States can pass immigration laws, Only congress can pass naturalization laws .

Obama or any president can not circumvent congress

[WRESTLINGFAN]

alright well if you're not going to do it, I am going to go let Fox News know about this. I'm pretty sure I will get a TV deal out of blowing the lid off of that. I am looking forward to seeing an ombudsman take down Obama for violating the federal bankruptcy law by screwing over bondholders, violating the constitution by issuing an executive order that granted amnesty to certain illegals and declaring war, or maybe not asking for authorization and maybe violating the war powers act which realistically only applies when war is declared


The GM bailout was done when the Democrats were in majority

I blame Boehner and McConnell for not calling out the administration with its circumventing of congress


How far should the president go? Should he be fitted for a faux military uniform ?

[Syd]

Have cost us, it was off books, no longer the case after Bush left office.

Obama raised the deficit more than any other president!

Oh, wait, he had ~$6 trillion or so of war debt coming to him because of our vacation to the graveyard of empires. Oops.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

And who is continuing the activities in the graveyard of empires ?

2 Billion a week is being spent to subsidize the poppy seeds and prop up one of the most corrupt governments on the planet

Gotta fight turrism

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Throw in the billions we piss away for an over the top police state , TSA and laws like the patriot act


Bin Laden is laughing at us while banging his virgins

[spoon]

Actually presidents can not make law. There's this legislative body that has 2 chambers called the House and Senate

Tell me again how this president is as pure as fresh fallen snow

and there it is, he pretty much nailed all zero of us on that fallen snow tangent

fucking idiot