The 2008 Presidential Race

[ShowerBench]

You might have a point, IF Clinton and her surrogates hadn't played the race card so many times already in this contest. Honestly, if you don't think a quiet, yet obvious strategy of the Clinton campaign hasn't been to portrait Obama as the "black candidate", then you are a damned fool.

Come on. It is the Obama camp that has played the race card over and over and over again. The benign Clinton comments that included "white Americans" were not racist, they were attempts to be specific in describing the demographics she is winning in swing states and AVOID either implying blacks didn't work hard or claiming she had support that she doesn't have.

They read like a David Duke speech only if viewed through "Clintons are racist" prism.

I don't care about the feelings of rich powerful politicians including New York senators so if it hurt the Clintons feelings that doesn't concern me much, but it is a low accusation being made concerning these comments and I find myself somewhat sympathetic to them.

But more than that pissed off at yet another example of how everyone has to walk on eggshells regarding Barry Obama because if you say something that can be lied about as racist, you're going to be lied about as a racist.

Race Man
http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=aa0cd21b-0ff2-4329-88a1-69c6c268b304

[TheMojoPin]

Agree it was the same weakness and that's why I moved off backing him. I did originally because he was the white male in the Democratic field and I liked the message. Before I get called names, "white male" was important only because of what it means in terms of electability.

After a while when it looked like the Clinton strategy to emphasize the Billary factor of experience was successful, I switched because Edwards was just coming off as "weak" (a combination of inexperience and almost no focus on national security).

But Edwards has a classically DEMOCRATIC message that I liked. I don't see any message out of Obama except "I'm awesome and have special powers to change politics."

There is money at the root of the partisan divide, therefore neither side is ever going to be interested in compromising before they are forced to. "Post-partisan" is another word for acquiescence.

So, in short, you have zero problem compromising your own claimed political standards or beliefs so long as you back a "winner."

[ShowerBench]

So, in short, you have zero problem compromising your own claimed political standards or beliefs so long as you back a "winner."

Everybody here including you will compromise your own political standards for "a winner." Unless there is a candidate that matches up with your beliefs 100%, you'll be compromising. There hasn't been a candidate that matched mine more than about 70% in my entire life.

The fact that I won't vote for Obama is proof that I only compromise to a certain extent (which I admit is a lot). But I won't go as far as to vote for someone who has no discernible interest in representing the core of the Democratic party since FDR - the working class just because he slaps a "D" next to his name and then goes off and runs on "new politics."

What would be the point other than to install some meaningless hyped up brand into office.

[TheMojoPin]

Everybody here including you will compromise your own political standards for "a winner." Unless there is a candidate that matches up with your beliefs 100%, you'll be compromising. There hasn't been a candidate that matched mine more than about 70% in my entire life.

The fact that I won't vote for Obama is proof that I only compromise to a certain extent (which I admit is a lot). But I won't go as far as to vote for someone who has no discernible interest in representing the core of the Democratic party since FDR - the working class just because he slaps a "D" next to his name and then goes off and runs on "new politics."

What would be the point other than to install some meaningless hyped up brand into office.

Everyone compromises to the degree that they'll never find a candidate that they agree with 100% on every issue...but it's been incredibly telling that your posts don't actually indicate you largely support Hillary idealogically but that you simply like her chances as a winner. Your points are further muddled when you go out of your way to hem and haw about Obama as being such a "weird, inexperienced phony" when you claim to have initially supported an arguably even more "inexperienced candiate" who already got chewed up and spit out by the Republicans and then move on to acandidate that is the ultimate target for the Republicans, and whose weaknesses are so glaring that she's now losing to the weird, inexperienced phony" you continually deride. This is not saying your points are all inherrently false...just that they're undercut by your hypocritical approach that casts such a critical eye on Obama while so blatantly neglecting to recognize those same faults as being equally evident or worse in the candidates you do support.

In short, it's obvious that you simply don't like Obama, but you're trying to dress it up and spin it as purely analytical reasoning that has nothing to do with those type of personal sentiments. Your arguments fall apart because you continually sidestep the "faults" you single Obama out for having are almost always reflected equally or worse in Edwards or Clinton. It's not an idealogical difference since all 3 show remarkably similar voting and rhetoric habits. What it often comes down it simply not liking someone. You see that constantly from many of the Obama supporters here...it's not that Clinton is radically different from Obama politically: people simply don't like her. You don't have to like Obama...hate him all you want. It's just ridiculous for you to keep dressing it up as this clinical, unemotional, unimpeachable analysis that has exposed the "truth" abut him.

[epo]

Race Man
http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=aa0cd21b-0ff2-4329-88a1-69c6c268b304

Thanks for the reference to an article in the New Republic by a man who testified before Congress against the impeachment of Bill Clinton and consistently writes pro-Hillary & anti-Obama articles.

You mine as well have referenced that jerkoff Paul Begala.

[ShowerBench]

Everyone compromises to the degree that they'll never find a candidate that they agree with 100% on every issue...but it's been incredibly telling that your posts don't actually indicate you largely support Hillary idealogically but that you simply like her chances as a winner. Your points are further muddled when you go out of your way to hem and haw about Obama as being such a "weird, inexperienced phony" when you claim to have initially supported an arguably even more "inexperienced candiate" who already got chewed up and spit out by the Republicans and then move on to acandidate that is the ultimate target for the Republicans, and whose weaknesses are so glaring that she's now losing to the weird, inexperienced phony" you continually deride. This is not saying your points are all inherrently false...just that they're undercut by your hypocritical approach that casts such a critical eye on Obama while so blatantly neglecting to recognize those same faults as being equally evident or worse in the candidates you do support.

In short, it's obvious that you simply don't like Obama, but you're trying to dress it up and spin it as purely analytical reasoning that has nothing to do with those type of personal sentiments. Your arguments fall apart because you continually sidestep the "faults" you single Obama out for having are almost always reflected equally or worse in Edwards or Clinton. It's not an idealogical difference since all 3 show remarkably similar voting and rhetoric habits. What it often comes down it simply not liking someone. You see that constantly from many of the Obama supporters here...it's not that Clinton is radically different from Obama politically: people simply don't like her. You don't have to like Obama...hate him all you want. It's just ridiculous for you to keep dressing it up as this clinical, unemotional, unimpeachable analysis that has exposed the "truth" abut him.

I've been remiss lately in emphasizing the main reason I won't vote for Obama and the main reason I moved off Edwards: national security. Edwards started coming off as weak both in terms of the actual issue and its impact on electability. I don't trust Obama in this realm in particular and it's at the top of my list of important issues. I trust the Clintons and think Obama and McCain are at two opposite ends of crazy on it, but gun to the head I would say McCain is better than Obama.

The electability argument is made here because most posters don't think there are big differences between the two candidates. I don't agree but if that were the case electability would become the most important issue.

[ShowerBench]

Thanks for the reference to an article in the New Republic by a man who testified before Congress against the impeachment of Bill Clinton and consistently writes pro-Hillary & anti-Obama articles.

You mine as well have referenced that jerkoff Paul Begala.

You were for the impeachment of Clinton?

It doesn't matter "who" wrote an article, what matters is how the content holds up logically

[ShowerBench]

I will say this, as someone who posts at Kos and other sites, the regular Obama supporters here are far more intellectually honest than anywhere else and don't seem to relish promoting a phony issue or a lie the way most your comrades around the internet and even within the campaign itself do.

Ron and Fez listeners are just better than average.

[TheMojoPin]

I will say this, as someone who posts at Kos and other sites, the regular Obama supporters here are far more intellectually honest than anywhere else and don't seem to relish promoting a phony issue or a lie the way most your comrades around the internet and even within the campaign itself do.

Ron and Fez listeners are just better than average.

Along those lines, you clearly show you know how to research and argue a point very clearly and aggressively without attacking the other posters you're dealing with. You frustrate the hell out of me by only focusing on Obama's flaws, but I appreciate your contributions to the site.

[scottinnj]

The thing about Kos' site is that I don't get it. I get the main page, but it's all over the place information-wise, and too many "permalinks"

It's like a blog being run by 5800 people, with the comments section being totally unpoliced for the crazies. Kos does not make any sense to me, but I see him on Bill Mahr's show from time to time, and he seems like a cat who's got it together, although on the other side of my political spectrum. I'd like to have a beer with him sometime and hash it out with some of the things we disagree on.

[epo]

The thing about Kos' site is that I don't get it. I get the main page, but it's all over the place information-wise, and too many "permalinks"

It's like a blog being run by 5800 people, with the comments section being totally unpoliced for the crazies. Kos does not make any sense to me, but I see him on Bill Mahr's show from time to time, and he seems like a cat who's got it together, although on the other side of my political spectrum. I'd like to have a beer with him sometime and hash it out with some of the things we disagree on.

On that note Scott in there a right leaning site like the Daily Kos? Anything you would recommend?

[scottinnj]

Not Really. I got tired of those sites a while back. The whole "preaching to the choir" syndrome, you know. I like listening to the other side, and the more my side whines about a website, the more I want to get into it.

If R & F is in "best of" like this week, or ESD is totally off his rocker doing a Kinko, Kinko the Kid Loving Clown bit, I'm probably listening to Ed Schultz on AA. He's good, funny and fair to us "righties" as he named us.

I know what I believe in, so I listen to the other side, to see where I can find places I can compromise with. After all, we have to get through this thing we call the "Great Experiment" together.

Edit: See if you can get through the site Townhall.com (http://www.townhall.com) I used a link to it once that detailed Ron Paul's campaign money donations coming from the KKK and Neo-Nazi websites with his knowledge. Some of it is drivel, but some of it may make you think about stuff.

[scottinnj]

Ron and Fez listeners are just better than average.


Now THAT's a fucking Mod Quote. I gotta give props for SB for sticking to his guns, while not going off his rocker defending his position.

[HBox]

Try Andrewsullivan.com. That's much better than townhall. I could be more derisive about it but I'll be respectful to Scott.

[scottinnj]

Try Andrewsullivan.com. That's much better than townhall. I could be more derisive about it but I'll be respectful to Scott.

Andrew Sullivan is funny. No need to hold back on Townhall, HBox. I'm done with defending my "favorite" media outlets. I haven't listened to Rush in almost 6 years, Fox News is boooring, especially Steve Doochie and the morning zoo crew. I do like Judge Napolitano enough to put up with Brian Kilmeade, the right wing equivalent of a sports analyst that goes political.

If Townhall comes up with a douchebag opinion piece, let us know. If it is something worth defending, I'll step up. If it's another "Jeremiah Wright is Satan and Obama is the Anti-Christ" article, well, I can see why people get in a lather about that.

But notice the edit-it took a while for me to think of a site worth mentioning. I guess that's because I've been spending most of my time here and not on the right wing sites getting my programming updated. I hope my left wing freinds here don't use "left of center" sites only to get their talking points for debates here. I doubt it though. Most of the so-called "talking points" of the left have been said, done and vetted here days, weeks and months before the Left Wing leaders tell their minions what to think. And that's a good thing, because that proves that RF.net regulars are thinkers on their own and come up with ideas well before the politicians do.

Maybe that's why we should all join together and tell all the politicians to suck a bag of dicks, go home and we'll run the show right here on RF.net! :drunk: :thumbup: :clap:

[epo]

Try Andrewsullivan.com. That's much better than townhall. I could be more derisive about it but I'll be respectful to Scott.

I think Sullivan is an interesting guy to say the least. He was one of the first conservative thinkers to turn on Bush (he supported Kerry). I always find it intriguing to read an opposing point of view, especially when we come to the same point but in a very different method. This is often the case with Sullivan.

Although, I must admit that when I read the Daily Dish I often think of this..........

http://writingcompany.blogs.com/this_isnt_writing_its_typ/images/sullivan_cpap.jpg

[ShowerBench]

This says it all about my reservations about Obama (and what I suspect are those of many of the Clinton supporters who will defect to McCain in November), especially with regard to Iran.

Note particularly the cautionary tale on Kennedy/Khrushchev.

Obama Needs a History Lesson

http://news.yahoo.com/s/realclearpolitics/20080509/cm_rcp/obama_needs_to_study_history_b&printer=1;_ylt=Apgg4MNCK2fPMnOL6JwGyprSos4F

[TheMojoPin]

This says it all about my reservations about Obama (and what I suspect are those of many of the Clinton supporters who will defect to McCain in November), especially with regard to Iran.

Note particularly Kennedy/Khrushchev.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/realclearpolitics/20080509/cm_rcp/obama_needs_to_study_history_b&printer=1;_ylt=Apgg4MNCK2fPMnOL6JwGyprSos4F

That editorial is incredibly selective in its historical perspectives/quotes/events.

[ShowerBench]

Obama's been to 57 states? :blink:

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[TheMojoPin]

I can't imagine that was anything except a joke.

[FUNKMAN]

not sure if it's been mentioned before but McCain stated:

" two of our greatest Presidents both have the last name of Bush "

[cougarjake13]

not sure if it's been mentioned before but McCain stated:

" two of our greatest Presidents both have the last name of Bush "

has alzheimers set in already for him ???

[Zorro]

http://breakingnews.nypost.com/dynamic/stories/O/OBAMA_ENDORSEMENT?SITE=NYNYP&SECTION=HOME

[scottinnj]

Edit: See if you can get through the site Townhall.com (http://www.townhall.com) I used a link to it once that detailed Ron Paul's campaign money donations coming from the KKK and Neo-Nazi websites with his knowledge. Some of it is drivel, but some of it may make you think about stuff.

My bad. I didn't mean Townhall.com-I got that mixed up with The American Thinker (http://www.americanthinker.com/)

Townhall.com is more like a place where B-list conservative talk show hosts post their columns. Like I said, I'm done with the preaching to the choir thing.

American Thinker is conservative, but it doesn't seem to be all that bad.

[keithy_19]

Like most people in Mingo County, West Virginia, Leonard Simpson is a lifelong Democrat. But given a choice between Barack Obama and John McCain in November, the 67-year-old retired coalminer would vote Republican.

“I heard that Obama is a Muslim and his wife’s an atheist,” said Mr Simpson, drawing on a cigarette outside the fire station in Williamson, a coalmining town of 3,400 people surrounded by lush wooded hillsides.

It made me giggle for a few reasons.

[sailor]

what reasons?

[Friday]

Obama's been to 57 states? :blink:

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ooof.
i think he meant to say 47 states.

still not as ridiculous as Hillary's "a woman is like a teabag" comment.

[A.J.]

Forgive me if this has been stated before but I realized the other day that no matter who wins this election (Obama, Clinton or McCain), this will be the first time since 1960 that a sitting U.S. Senator has been elected President.

That's a neat little bit of trivia.

[foodcourtdruide]

Nothing shows the complete stupidity and lack of integrity of our media than elections. Last week Obama was the front-runner in the media because he beat Clinton in NC by a wide margin and didn't lose Indiana as much as they expected. Everyone knew and SAID that Clinton would win WV by a large margin, but it will not be enough.

Now Clinton won WV by a large margin and SUDDENLY SHE'S BACK IN THE RACE! This is called generating false news. The WV race did VERY VERY VERY VERY little to improve Clinton's chances. Our media has zero integrity and this race highlights it. Sensationalism and conflict are much more important than reporting real news to the American people.

[Zorro]

My favorite part of this is that Hillary has gone from presumtive nominee to Hillbilly hopeful

[epo]

Nothing shows the complete stupidity and lack of integrity of our media than elections. Last week Obama was the front-runner in the media because he beat Clinton in NC by a wide margin and didn't lose Indiana as much as they expected. Everyone knew and SAID that Clinton would win WV by a large margin, but it will not be enough.

Now Clinton won WV by a large margin and SUDDENLY SHE'S BACK IN THE RACE! This is called generating false news. The WV race did VERY VERY VERY VERY little to improve Clinton's chances. Our media has zero integrity and this race highlights it. Sensationalism and conflict are much more important than reporting real news to the American people.

Let's face it, the longer the Clinton brothers are in the race, the better the story is for the media. The "horserace" sells papers, the horserace drives ratings. Our corporate media loves it.

By the last count, Obama needs 140 delegates to clinch, Clinton needs 308. With 428 delegates left, he only needs 34% of the remaining delegates to win the nomination. Let's face it...this race is over.

If the race wasn't over, McCain wouldn't be claiming that Hamas hearts Obama. And if Clinton was winning, the Republicans would claim that Vince Foster was murdered by Monica's blue dress.

[Dude!]

as a hardworking white person
i may have to switch over to clinton

[epo]

If you want a major reason the Clintons have lost this race, it's strategy. The Dean factor of the Democratic Party is in control and they are running a 50-state strategy as a means to build a national organization, rather than a "blue state coalition" that the Clintons believe in.

In 2006 Howard Dean came under great scrutiny by the Clinton people for this strategy as they felt he was spending too much money. In fact, Paul Begala gave us this nugget on CNN:

"What he has spent it on, apparently, is just hiring a bunch of staff people to wander around Utah and Mississippi and pick their nose."

And yet from the morning news...a traditional republican Mississippi stronghold votes blue. A democratic county clerk defeated a local mayor for a U.S. House seat. Link to story here. (http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/Top_News/2008/05/14/us_south_turning_democratic_blue/6618/)

I guess building an organization to end the 50/50 divide just might work. Goodbye Clintons!

[Zorro]

If you want a major reason the Clintons have lost this race, it's strategy. The Dean factor of the Democratic Party is in control and they are running a 50-state strategy as a means to build a national organization, rather than a "blue state coalition" that the Clintons believe in.

In 2006 Howard Dean came under great scrutiny by the Clinton people for this strategy as they felt he was spending too much money. In fact, Paul Begala gave us this nugget on CNN:



And yet from the morning news...a traditional republican Mississippi stronghold votes blue. A democratic county clerk defeated a local mayor for a U.S. House seat. Link to story here. (http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/Top_News/2008/05/14/us_south_turning_democratic_blue/6618/)

I guess building an organization to end the 50/50 divide just might work. Goodbye Clintons!


This election was her Iraq. She declared mission accomplished before the race was run.

[NewYorkDragons80]

By the last count, Obama needs 140 delegates to clinch, Clinton needs 308. With 428 delegates left, he only needs 34% of the remaining delegates to win the nomination. Let's face it...this race is over.

If the race wasn't over, McCain wouldn't be claiming that Hamas hearts Obama. And if Clinton was winning, the Republicans would claim that Vince Foster was murdered by Monica's blue dress.
Hillary still has the popular vote. As long as that's true, good luck getting her to concede. And don't forget that Hamas endorsed Obama before McCain reported the fact.

[Zorro]

Edwards endorses Obama...
Day late dollar short

[NewYorkDragons80]

Edwards endorses Obama...
Day late dollar short
Who is this Edward you speak of?

[foodcourtdruide]

Hillary still has the popular vote. As long as that's true, good luck getting her to concede. And don't forget that Hamas endorsed Obama before McCain reported the fact.

Obama is leading in the popular vote by almost 600,000. She can't win. This is ridiculous. She's prolonging this and helping McCain.

[epo]

Hillary still has the popular vote. As long as that's true, good luck getting her to concede. And don't forget that Hamas endorsed Obama before McCain reported the fact.

Obama is leading in the popular vote by almost 600,000. She can't win. This is ridiculous. She's prolonging this and helping McCain.

Seriously, you Clinton people crack me up. "She's winning the popular vote!"

Ok, let's think about this. The way that the Clintons are measuring this is with Florida & Michigan, which is quite funny. You see the candidates (except Kucinch), including Hillary agreed to and signed a document within the party that under the current rules, the tallies of those rules don't count.

So either Hillary is treating you like you are stupid or is lying to you. I report, you decide.

[Heather 8]

Who is this Edward you speak of?

Pitzy's dreamboat.

http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/b/6/edwards_breckgirls.jpg

:wub:

[scottinnj]

I report, you decide.

Fair and Balanced Daddyo!

[scottinnj]

i just got an email-john edwards just endorsed barack obama.

[NewYorkDragons80]

Seriously, you Clinton people crack me up.
I'm a Clinton person?

I was making the argument she's gonna make for pushing this thing into Denver, not cheerleading for her campaign. I think I've made it clear since I signed up at rf.net in August of 2001 that I'm a McCain guy.

[epo]

I'm a Clinton person?

I was making the argument she's gonna make for pushing this thing into Denver, not cheerleading for her campaign. I think I've made it clear since I signed up at rf.net in August of 2001 that I'm a McCain guy.

My mistake, I apologize. I was fooled by your use of the "she has more votes" line, because under the rules that she agreed to, she doesn't.

Once again, my apology.

[NewYorkDragons80]

S'all good in the hood

[scottinnj]

http://opinionhead.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/mccain.jpgVS.
http://z.about.com/d/usliberals/1/0/G/1/SenBarackObama



MAY THE MOST QUALIFIED CANDIDATE WIN!

[scottinnj]

Hannity just accused Obama of unleashing a myriad of attacks against McCain, while saying McCain has been nothing but conciliartory towards Obama.

[scottinnj]

Even though Obama talked about pulling out of Iraq because our soldiers have stepped up but not the Iraqi government, it seems like the Iraqi government is getting ready to take control all by themselves:

Story Here (http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=080603142949.hgvghqxe&show_article=1)

A joint vision on this issue is yet to be achieved between the two sides, and ... the Iraqi side has a different vision, and it will not undercut or be negligent towards Iraqis' rights and sovereignty," Dabbagh said.

[TheMojoPin]

Luke..LUKE...you must go to the Dabbagh system...

[scottinnj]

Ben? Beeeeeennnnnnn...........!

http://www.alexandgregory.com/images/Ben%20kenobi%20ghost.gif

[FUNKMAN]

not sure if it's been mentioned but John McCain stated

" two of our greatest presidents both have the last name of Bush "


i mean just let that one sink in a little bit

[NewYorkDragons80]

not sure if it's been mentioned but John McCain stated

"Funkman is a shit stirrer"
Stop treating McCain like he is a 3rd Bush term. Enough. It's a lie. Think for yourself, don't let a blog do it for you.

[FUNKMAN]

Stop treating McCain like he is a 3rd Bush term. Enough. It's a lie. Think for yourself, don't let a blog do it for you.

no blogs, saw him say it live on CNN

so go fuck yourself douchebag!

[scottinnj]

why did you call him a fucking douchebag?
so you saw it live. big deal. got a link?
that was a bit over the top, for real, don't ya think?
c'mon lets all just relax over these things, and remember our friendship on this board is more important then proving a point.
and "fixing" funkman's quote to call him a shit-stirrer was out of line too. you didn't need to do that to make your point either, dragon

[Upstruckman]

I wish John McCain would have the balls to ask George Allen to be his running mate.:clap:

[NewYorkDragons80]

"fixing" funkman's quote to call him a shit-stirrer was out of line too. you didn't need to do that to make your point either, dragon
Perhaps you and I have a different take on the term "shit-stirrer", but I use it in a joking way. Some of my best friends could medal in shit-stirring in international competition, so I didn't use it as a means to offend anyone. This was the third or fourth time Funkman used that meaningless quote. McCain's been on the country's radar for 9 years, so anybody who tells you his presidency is a third Bush term is either on the payroll of an opposing campaign or lying to themselves.

Obama voted for Bush's energy plan
Obama voted for Bush's immigration plan
Obama has voiced his unequivocal support for Israel

Barack Obama... 4 more years of failed Bush policies!

[epo]

Fuck that greatest Bush quote....this is the quote that I'm worried about with John McCain:

"Only the most deluded of us could doubt the necessity of this war. " - about the Iraq War (http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/convention2004/johnmccain2004rnc.htm)

John McCain
August 30, 2004
Republican National Convention

[scottinnj]

Perhaps you and I have a different take on the term "shit-stirrer", but I use it in a joking way. Some of my best friends could medal in shit-stirring in international competition, so I didn't use it as a means to offend anyone. This was the third or fourth time Funkman used that meaningless quote. McCain's been on the country's radar for 9 years, so anybody who tells you his presidency is a third Bush term is either on the payroll of an opposing campaign or lying to themselves.

Obama voted for Bush's energy plan
Obama voted for Bush's immigration plan
Obama has voiced his unequivocal support for Israel

Barack Obama... 4 more years of failed Bush policies!


That was just me seeing a fire starting and wanting to put it out. Believe you me, ask epo or Mojo, I was quite the little hissy fit maker when I first came to the board. But I found it nice that epo, yerdaddy and Mojo would quietly talk me down, and then I figured this place was much better then the BS over at MySpace and the other message boards.

Your comment stood on its own about McCain-Don't misunderstand me about why I called you out. And if you were joking, I didn't get it, so I apologize for stepping on your spot dude.

[epo]

I read the funniest article ever today:

GOP frets Barr could play spoiler in prez race (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080622/ap_on_el_pr/bob_barr;_ylt=AuvUTOY0Up2BI7YfDVR6..2s0NUE)

"Bob could be the Ralph Nader of 2008," said Dan Schnur, a GOP consultant in California who worked on McCain's 2000 campaign but is not involved in this year's contest. Consumer advocate Nader is the third-party candidate many Democrats blame for helping George W. Bush narrowly win in 2000.

Bob Barr's campaign is the least of McCain's issues.

[A.J.]

I read the funniest article ever today:

GOP frets Barr could play spoiler in prez race (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080622/ap_on_el_pr/bob_barr;_ylt=AuvUTOY0Up2BI7YfDVR6..2s0NUE)



Bob Barr's campaign is the least of McCain's issues.

Ummm....no.

[epo]

Of course it's really damn early, but if I were McCain's team I would wonder about things:

Survey USA Indiana poll: (http://www.surveyusa.com/client/PollReport.aspx?g=d62471d9-b9f8-4274-8312-16c1006a5764)

Obama: 48 (41)
McCain: 47 (50)

That's a problem.

[scottinnj]

Bob Barr's campaign is the least of McCain's issues.

You're right, but it's still a factor in close states. But the way McCain's campaign is handling things like setup questions-"If Bin Laden hits America, is that good for McCain's campaign?" Yech! Black should have punched that guy instead of answering such a horrid question, but he did, and that makes McCain look like a douche. "I hope we get hit so I can get re-elected"

And weird lottery campaigns-300 million for a new battery system. HEY! Let's pool our money and go down to the dollar store, get 40 pounds of D batteries and put them in a really cool looking enclosure. We'll win for sure!


I was looking forward to a campaign of ideas. But between McCain, Charlie Black and now Dobson, I'm getting the same old, same old from my former freinds at the GOP.

I'm gonna vote for Obama so hard I put a hole in the voting machine. Don't worry, I'll wait until everyone else voted.

[epo]

Gordon Smith is a Republican Senator from Oregon. He is up for re-election so what is he doing?

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/ZGDJijGCeO4&hl=en"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ZGDJijGCeO4&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

He is trying to hook himself to Barack Obama. The McCain camp can't be thrilled about this.

[A.J.]

Gordon Smith is a Republican Senator from Oregon. He is up for re-election so what is he doing?

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/ZGDJijGCeO4&hl=en"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ZGDJijGCeO4&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

He is trying to hook himself to Barack Obama. The McCain camp can't be thrilled about this.

It does make sense considering that Smith is one of the more liberal Republicans -- much like Chris Shays of CT. Oregon's GOP Senators typically fit that mold.

[AKA]

It does make sense considering that Smith is one of the more liberal Republicans -- much like Chris Shays of CT. Oregon's GOP Senators typically fit that mold.

Too bad Lincoln Chafee did have Obama to hitch his campaign to in 2006.

[AKA]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/curtoid/myspace_choice.jpg

I may not be voting for the guy, but the least they could have done was get a decent pic of McCain - I swear it looks photoshopped/morphed to look like one of those evil Presidents from "24"

[TooLowBrow]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/curtoid/myspace_choice.jpg

I may not be voting for the guy, but the least they could have done was get a decent pic of McCain - I swear it looks photoshopped/morphed to look like one of those evil Presidents from "24"

mccain has a very peanut shaped head

[epo]

The latest Rasmussen poll in MONTANA: (http://rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/montana/election_2008_montana_presidential_election2)

Obama - 48%
McCain - 43%

Holy Shit! I didn't believe it at first, but the Republicans really are losing the west.

[TheMojoPin]

The latest Rasmussen poll in MONTANA: (http://rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/montana/election_2008_montana_presidential_election2)

Obama - 48%
McCain - 43%

Holy Shit! I didn't believe it at first, but the Republicans really are losing the west.

Eh...I'm sure you already go there, but 538 (http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/) tends to much more reliable in their projections (which is great for Obama).

[NewYorkDragons80]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/curtoid/myspace_choice.jpg

I may not be voting for the guy, but the least they could have done was get a decent pic of McCain - I swear it looks photoshopped/morphed to look like one of those evil Presidents from "24"
Dude, I saw that too and my first thought was that it's simultaneously a subtle and obvious effort against McCain. Just as bad as the Time magazine OJ photoshop.

[TheMojoPin]

Dude, I saw that too and my first thought was that it's simultaneously a subtle and obvious effort against McCain. Just as bad as the Time magazine OJ photoshop.

Really? It's how the man photographs:

http://whoisjohnmccain.name/who-is-john-mccain.jpg

This next one is his official headshot, which is what was used for the banner, just flipped around. If anything, they did him a favor cutting down the reoslution:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/47/John_McCain_official_photo_portrait.JPG/473px-John_McCain_official_photo_portrait.JPG

As someone who is also always the victim of terrible photographs, I feel his pain.

[PhishHead]

As someone who is also always the victim of terrible photographs, I feel his pain.

LIES!!!

[TheMojoPin]

If only it was, Phishay. I suffer Jim Breur-syndrome as soon as the shutter snaps...I either look high and/or retarded. And I'm an unfunny jackass.

[PhishHead]

If only it was, Phishay. I suffer Jim Breur-syndrome as soon as the shutter snaps...I either look high and/or retarded. And I'm an unfunny jackass.

I photograph horribly as well so i feel your pain.

[K.C.]

Obama, McCain, Obama, McCain, blah blah blah.

Where's the Ralph Nader, Bob Barr, Cynthia McKinney, Gloria La Riva chatter??

Where's the article links on Gene Amondson, Brian Moore, Roger Calero, Alan Keyes, and Chuck Baldwin?



It's going to be a close election, but I see La Riva edging out Keyes and Barr by a couple percentage points to be elected the first female Communist president in U.S. History.

[TheMojoPin]

Monica Moorehead fan since day #1.

[epo]

So according to the latest Rasmussen poll (http://rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/south_dakota/election_2008_south_dakota_presidential_election2) in South Dakota things are tightening up:

McCain: 47
Obama: 43

The reason this seems noteworthy to me is this is a state that Bush won by 60-38% over Kerry. I would ask what would be the cause of this difference in polling?


McCain is weak.
Republican brand is injured.
Obama is strong.
Democratic brand is strong.
The West and the High Plains are changing.


I'm really intrigued as to what the real answer is.

[scottinnj]

The West and the High Plains are changing.

I'm really intrigued as to what the real answer is.


So.......you're saying "Brokeback Mountain" was a documentary instead of a drama?

http://msp236.photobucket.com/albums/ff142/jethronyc212/brokeback_mountain.jpg

[epo]

So.......you're saying "Brokeback Mountain" was a documentary instead of a drama?

http://msp236.photobucket.com/albums/ff142/jethronyc212/brokeback_mountain.jpg

Hmm......

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa280/neworleanslady68/obama.jpg

[scottinnj]

Hmm......

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa280/neworleanslady68/obama.jpg

No way. Check that man for ciggies, 'cause I swear to God, he's the Marlboro Man!

*swooning in a non-homo way*


NO HOMO!

[epo]

No way. Check that man for ciggies, 'cause I swear to God, he's the Marlboro Man!

*swooning in a non-homo way*


NO HOMO!

On a semi-serious note though, I do really wonder about the polling in that part of the country. I've heard stories about the hunters & the conservationists finally realizing they are essentially on the same side.

I wonder if the environment is their driving issue?

[sailor]

On a semi-serious note though, I do really wonder about the polling in that part of the country. I've heard stories about the hunters & the conservationists finally realizing they are essentially on the same side.

I wonder if the environment is their driving issue?

i've never heard of a hunter who wasn't a conservationist on some level. i'd say the average hunter is more environmentally conscious than the average non-hunter, by a long ways.

[epo]

i've never heard of a hunter who wasn't a conservationist on some level.

Exactly. But now the non-crazy tree huggers and the hunters are friends? It almost seems too logical.

[scottinnj]

On a semi-serious note though, I do really wonder about the polling in that part of the country. I've heard stories about the hunters & the conservationists finally realizing they are essentially on the same side.

I wonder if the environment is their driving issue?

Could be. A good hunter is an enviromentalist first. It's all about the balance, and smokey venison links slow-cooked over hot embers.

[epo]

The June fundraising numbers (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25715558/) are in and they are quite eye-opening:

Obama - $52 million
McCain - $22 million

Mind you these numbers are really before the Clinton people I know started giving to Obama. However, the RNC has a shitload of money on hand and that must be respected.

[Jujubees2]

So according to the latest Rasmussen poll (http://rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/south_dakota/election_2008_south_dakota_presidential_election2) in South Dakota things are tightening up:

McCain: 47
Obama: 43

The reason this seems noteworthy to me is this is a state that Bush won by 60-38% over Kerry. I would ask what would be the cause of this difference in polling?


McCain is weak.
Republican brand is injured.
Obama is strong.
Democratic brand is strong.
The West and the High Plains are changing.


I'm really intrigued as to what the real answer is.


It also might have something to do with Howard Dean's idea of competing in every election in every state. When he became head of the DNC, he started placing workers in every state to help with local elections. That may now be paying off on the national level.

[Zorro]

It also might have something to do with Howard Dean's idea of competing in every election in every state. When he became head of the DNC, he started placing workers in every state to help with local elections. That may now be paying off on the national level.

I think you're reading more into this than it deserves. McCain is a horrible candidate.

[foodcourtdruide]

So according to the latest Rasmussen poll (http://rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/south_dakota/election_2008_south_dakota_presidential_election2) in South Dakota things are tightening up:

McCain: 47
Obama: 43

The reason this seems noteworthy to me is this is a state that Bush won by 60-38% over Kerry. I would ask what would be the cause of this difference in polling?


McCain is weak.
Republican brand is injured.
Obama is strong.
Democratic brand is strong.
The West and the High Plains are changing.


I'm really intrigued as to what the real answer is.

You don't think it could be that people are simply reacting to a struggling economy under a Republican president?

[trucker ace]

I was thinking the other night while driving my Rig that if we could get a majority of people to threaten not to vote this November because of gas prices, how fast do you think McCain or Obama would do something to lower prices?

[TooLowBrow]

I was thinking the other night while driving my Rig that if we could get a majority of people to threaten not to vote this November because of gas prices, how fast do you think McCain or Obama would do something to lower prices?

thats stupid, whos more important to them.. a bunch of individuals, or a big, rich corporation?

[scottinnj]

I was thinking the other night while driving my Rig that if we could get a majority of people to threaten not to vote this November because of gas prices, how fast do you think McCain or Obama would do something to lower prices?

Even if you could, and only 100 dullards voted in November, and 60 people voted for one guy and 40 voted for the other guy, the guy who won would claim a "decisive" victory and everything they do would be "madated by the people"

Meanwhile the other 299,999,900 citizens who sat it out are screwed, once again.

[JerseySean]

I was thinking the other night while driving my Rig that if we could get a majority of people to threaten not to vote this November because of gas prices, how fast do you think McCain or Obama would do something to lower prices?

The only way to lower gas prices is to have a two pronged approach which is investment in new technology and drilling what we currently have. Thats what you can do. Another huge problem is the weak dollar. The dollar is the standard at which oil is traded, but when that is falling against other currencies, the price goes sky high.
its more complicated than hugging a tree or a gas tax holiday.

[HBox]

I was thinking the other night while driving my Rig that if we could get a majority of people to threaten not to vote this November because of gas prices, how fast do you think McCain or Obama would do something to lower prices?

It certainly would be an unprecedented tragedy if more than half the people didn't vote.

[epo]

The only way to lower gas prices is to have a two pronged approach which is investment in new technology and drilling what we currently have. Thats what you can do. Another huge problem is the weak dollar. The dollar is the standard at which oil is traded, but when that is falling against other currencies, the price goes sky high.
its more complicated than hugging a tree or a gas tax holiday.

Don't forget the added cost of oil speculators. They are doing a serious number on the price these days.

[NewYorkDragons80]

Exactly. But now the non-crazy tree huggers and the hunters are friends? It almost seems too logical.
Only problem is that it hinges on the hunters being swayed to Obama on the basis that he's the superior environmental candidate. Assuming this cosmic shift is taking place, the gun-owners still don't have any reason to vote against McCain. He's for the environment and for guns. Obama is only half of that.

[NewYorkDragons80]

2004 Poll trends (http://www.pollingreport.com/wh04gen.htm)
This time 4 years ago, Bush was trailing Kerry by 5 points.

[Jujubees2]

I was thinking the other night while driving my Rig that if we could get a majority of people to threaten not to vote this November because of gas prices, how fast do you think McCain or Obama would do something to lower prices?

Let's face it, The party is over. there wil be no more "cheap" gasoline. Why should there be? The oil companies are getting us for $4.00 a gallon now with little to no drop in demand and therefore are pulling in record profits. Even if crude oil prices were to come down, do you think the oil companies are going to pass that on to the consumer?

[Zorro]

Let's face it, The party is over. there wil be no more "cheap" gasoline. Why should there be? The oil companies are getting us for $4.00 a gallon now with little to no drop in demand and therefore are pulling in record profits. Even if crude oil prices were to come down, do you think the oil companies are going to pass that on to the consumer?

Yeah...let's blame the oil companies for everything...man. Seriously they're corporations...they are obligated to maximize profits. Old chestnut: Hate the game not the player.

[Jujubees2]

Let's face it, The party is over. there wil be no more "cheap" gasoline. Why should there be? The oil companies are getting us for $4.00 a gallon now with little to no drop in demand and therefore are pulling in record profits. Even if crude oil prices were to come down, do you think the oil companies are going to pass that on to the consumer?

Yeah...let's blame the oil companies for everything...man. Seriously they're corporations...they are obligated to maximize profits. Old chestnut: Hate the game not the player.

I wasn't blaming the oil companies. I was responding to the post that suggested we threaten not to vote this year to get gas prices to come down and how that would not work because the oil business is driven by profits, not politicians.

[Zorro]

Just a general political note... The Feds have dropped their investigation into Rev Al

http://www.ny1.com/ny1/content/index.jsp?stid=1&aid=84037

[epo]

So here is the new John McCain ad:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/oHXYsw_ZDXg&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/oHXYsw_ZDXg&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Now is this ad: Smart? Incredibly dumb? Racist?

It could be smart for trying to exploit Obama's strength and momentum & framing it as a weakness, while juxtaposing them against "real problems".

It could be incredibly dumb by pointing out that "Obama is way more popular than I am".

Or it could be racist by using the "where are the white women at" theory against a black man running for office. The same theory that was used against Harold Ford in 2006.

Hmm........

[BinaryBimbo]

So here is the new John McCain ad:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/oHXYsw_ZDXg&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/oHXYsw_ZDXg&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Now is this ad: Smart? Incredibly dumb? Racist?

It could be smart for trying to exploit Obama's strength and momentum & framing it as a weakness, while juxtaposing them against "real problems".

It could be incredibly dumb by pointing out that "Obama is way more popular than I am".

Or it could be racist by using the "where are the white women at" theory against a black man running for office. The same theory that was used against Harold Ford in 2006.

Hmm........

It sure is interesting to see McCain do this sort of ad now; I think it makes him, (McCain), look kinda weak even if it does make the point that Obama will raise taxes effectively. The premise that Obama will cause higher oil or gas pricing doesn't strike me as holding much weight though.

I'll take "Incredibly dumb" for fifty Alex.

[badmonkey]

So here is the new John McCain ad:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/oHXYsw_ZDXg&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/oHXYsw_ZDXg&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Now is this ad: Smart? Incredibly dumb? Racist?

It could be smart for trying to exploit Obama's strength and momentum & framing it as a weakness, while juxtaposing them against "real problems".

It could be incredibly dumb by pointing out that "Obama is way more popular than I am".

Or it could be racist by using the "where are the white women at" theory against a black man running for office. The same theory that was used against Harold Ford in 2006.

Hmm........

Sorry epo but... racist? seriously?

[angrymissy]

I don't think it's racist, I think it makes McCain look whiney.

[epo]

Sorry epo but... racist? seriously?

One could easily argue that the use of blonde bimbos (Hilton, Spears) versus the backdrop of a black man running for president has implicit implications about race for certain demographics. I'm not saying it was intended that way, but I'm saying that it might be a convenient subtext for certain blocs of voters.

Ohhh...and that gigantic phallic symbol in the ad doesn't hurt either.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/jGQ-ISsDm8M&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/jGQ-ISsDm8M&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[NewYorkDragons80]

Sorry epo but... racist? seriously?
If you can think of a better way to see it, I'd like to hear it mister.

Isn't it obvious? The McCain camp's strategic placement of blonde white women and BLATANT phallic symbols in their ads is part of the racist attacks we've all been expecting. It isn't a stretch at all, my friend.

[scottinnj]

Stupid? Yes.

Racist? No.

History's worst/dummest/silliest/most out of touch campaign commercial?

HellaYeah!

[NewYorkDragons80]

Stupid? Yes.

Racist? No.

History's worst/dummest/silliest/most out of touch campaign commercial?

HellaYeah!
The commercial is a little disappointing, but how do you deal with a guy who draws crowds on fluff?

I'm not saying Obama doesn't have ideas, but if people are drawn to his charisma and image as much as or more than actual ideas, then the image is also fair game.

[epo]

Stupid? Yes.

Racist? No.

History's worst/dummest/silliest/most out of touch campaign commercial?

HellaYeah!

Former McCain advisor John Weaver on today's ad: (http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/07/weaver_mccains_former_strategi.php)

With the release today of a McCain television ad blasting Obama for celebrity preening while gas prices rise, and a memo that accuses Obama of putting his own aggrandizement before the country, Weaver said he's had "enough."

The ad's premise, he said, is "childish."

"John's been a celebrity ever since he was shot down," Weaver said. "Whatever that means. And I recall Ronald Reagan and George H. W. Bush going overseas and all those waving American flags."

[epo]

If you can think of a better way to see it, I'd like to hear it mister.

Isn't it obvious? The McCain camp's strategic placement of blonde white women and BLATANT phallic symbols in their ads is part of the racist attacks we've all been expecting. It isn't a stretch at all, my friend.

Blonde white whores known for their sexual adventures. The more of think of it, the more obvious it gets.

Yes, the point of the ad was not the sexual/racist overtones...but good ol' Charlie Black didn't mind the secondary message.

[K.C.]

So here is the new John McCain ad:

Now is this ad: Smart? Incredibly dumb? Racist?

It could be smart for trying to exploit Obama's strength and momentum & framing it as a weakness, while juxtaposing them against "real problems".

It could be incredibly dumb by pointing out that "Obama is way more popular than I am".

Or it could be racist by using the "where are the white women at" theory against a black man running for office. The same theory that was used against Harold Ford in 2006.

Hmm........


I'd say you're probably stretching a bit on the race thing. The Harold Ford one was obvious, but I think it was all part of making the point that his an 'airhead celebrity.'

As for the ad...yeah, I had to laugh when they said "he's the biggest celebrity in the world' as if people liking him is a BAD thing.

[IMSlacker]

I'd say you're probably stretching a bit on the race thing. The Harold Ford one was obvious, but I think it was all part of making the point that his an 'airhead celebrity.'

As for the ad...yeah, I had to laugh when they said "he's the biggest celebrity in the world' as if people liking him is a BAD thing.

Also, 200,000 people aren't going to show up to see Paris Hilton speak, so the comparison doesn't make any sense.

[NewYorkDragons80]

Yes, the point of the ad was not the sexual/racist overtones...but good ol' Charlie Black didn't mind the secondary message.
Epo might be backing off the racist elements, but not me. I intend to find racism in everything the campaign releases, and I know there's an army of people like me who hope to expose McCain for the racist he is. Come back to us, epo.

[angrymissy]

http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/07/weaver_mccains_former_strategi.php

Weaver, McCain's Former Strategist, Calls "Celeb" Ad "Childish"

John Weaver, for years one of John McCain's closest friends and confidants, has been in exile since his resignation from McCain's presidential campaign last year. With the exception of an occasional interview, he has, by his own account, bit his tongue as McCain's campaign has adopted a strategy that Weaver believes "diminishes John McCain."

more @ link

[foodcourtdruide]

Am I crazy or did McCain originally say there wouldn't be negative campaigning? He's been taking personal shots at Obama lately.

[badmonkey]

Am I crazy or did McCain originally say there wouldn't be negative campaigning? He's been taking personal shots at Obama lately.

What do you expect? He's a racist.

[foodcourtdruide]

What do you expect? He's a racist.

I don't think McCain is a racist.

[TooLowBrow]

I don't think McCain is a racist.

i think he's shown to be surprisingly tolerant

[NewYorkDragons80]

It sure is interesting to see McCain do this sort of ad now; I think it makes him, (McCain), look kinda weak even if it does make the point that Obama will raise taxes effectively.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-0704030881apr04,0,6678847.story
McCain isn't the only one who fights dirty.

[foodcourtdruide]

i think he's shown to be surprisingly tolerant

How's that? I don't think anything either way.

[K.C.]

Am I crazy or did McCain originally say there wouldn't be negative campaigning? He's been taking personal shots at Obama lately.

Saying "he's more popular than me" is a personal shot?

That may be the worst personal shot (verbal shot, of course) in history.


The McCain add would have been more effective if he had just stood in from of a camera, held his hand up and said

"Come on...he's black! Black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black
.
.
.
.
BLACK!"

I'm John McCain, and I approve this message

[foodcourtdruide]

Saying "he's more popular than me" is a personal shot?

That may be the worst personal shot (verbal shot, of course) in history.


The McCain add would have been more effective if he had just stood in from of a camera, held his hand up and said

"Come on...he's black! Black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black
.
.
.
.
BLACK!"

I'm John McCain, and I approve this message

No, but saying Obama would lose a war to win a campaign is a personal shot.

[TooLowBrow]

How's that? I don't think anything either way.

just if i were him i would be an outspoken anti-vietnamese

[angrymissy]

just if i were him i would be an outspoken anti-vietnamese

oh, he is...

"I hated the gooks. I will hate them as long as I live."

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/opinion/hongop.shtml

[badmonkey]

oh, he is...



http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/opinion/hongop.shtml

That one's easy.

"That's not the John McCain I've known for 73 years" -- John McCain

[angrymissy]

Lol, whoopsie:

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/07/paris-hiltons-d.html?cid=124723684#comments

Contributors to McCain's campaign for the Republican presidential nomination included Rick Hilton. In fact, Hilton was so enthusiastic about his candidate of choice that, The Times' Tina Daunt reports, federal records show he donated twice as much as the law allows (the campaign returned the excess).

Now, of course, daughter Paris Hilton is the costar (along with Britney Spears) in a controversial new McCain ad aimed at ridiculing Barack Obama.

No word yet on how the elder Hilton is reacting to the new ad, but Daunt will have details on how it's playing in Hollywood in a story that will post later today on The Times' website.

[badmonkey]

Lol, whoopsie:

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/07/paris-hiltons-d.html?cid=124723684#comments

Contributors to McCain's campaign for the Republican presidential nomination included Rick Hilton. In fact, Hilton was so enthusiastic about his candidate of choice that, The Times' Tina Daunt reports, federal records show he donated twice as much as the law allows (the campaign returned the excess).

Now, of course, daughter Paris Hilton is the costar (along with Britney Spears) in a controversial new McCain ad aimed at ridiculing Barack Obama.

No word yet on how the elder Hilton is reacting to the new ad, but Daunt will have details on how it's playing in Hollywood in a story that will post later today on The Times' website.

Rick Hilton is about 20 years too late to start caring about that girl and where her image surfaces.

[NewYorkDragons80]

Wait, so Missy honestly thinks that was directed at all Vietnamese people?

[epo]

I suppose Obama summed up the McCain ad (http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/07/obama_taunts_mccain_is_that_th.php)the best:

"We want to have a serious debate. But so far, we've been hearing about Paris Hilton and Britney Spears. I do have to ask my opponent: is that the best you can come up with? Is that really what the election is about? Is that worthy of the American people?"

Issues...what a concept!

[ChrisTheCop]

Obama wants to have a serious debate?
Didnt he turn down McCain's request to have an actual debate??? Several in fact???

[epo]

Obama wants to have a serious debate?
Didnt he turn down McCain's request to have an actual debate??? Several in fact???

They are already scheduled: (http://www.youdecide2008.com/2007/06/13/full-2008-debate-schedule-from-dnc-and-gop/)


September 26, 2008: Presidential debate with domestic policy focus, University of Mississippi, Oxford, MS
October 2, 2008: Vice Presidential debate, Washington University, St. Louis, MO
October 7, 2008: Presidential debate in a town hall format, Belmont University, Nashville, TN
October 15, 2008:Presidential debate with foreign policy focus, Hofstra University, Hempstead, NY

[midwestjeff]

They are already scheduled: (http://www.youdecide2008.com/2007/06/13/full-2008-debate-schedule-from-dnc-and-gop/)


September 26, 2008: Presidential debate with domestic policy focus, University of Mississippi, Oxford, MS
October 2, 2008: Vice Presidential debate, Washington University, St. Louis, MO
October 7, 2008: Presidential debate in a town hall format, Belmont University, Nashville, TN
October 15, 2008:Presidential debate with foreign policy focus, Hofstra University, Hempstead, NY


This is probably a dumb question, but can these be attended by the public?

[epo]

This is probably a dumb question, but can these be attended by the public?

Not a dumb question at all. If you are looking at attending any of the events, use the website of the Commission on Presidential Debates. Click here. (http://www.debates.org/)

Since all of the details aren't finalized there are no specifics yet, but there will be soon enough.

[midwestjeff]

Not a dumb question at all. If you are looking at attending any of the events, use the website of the Commission on Presidential Debates. Click here. (http://www.debates.org/)

Since all of the details aren't finalized there are no specifics yet, but there will be soon enough.

Cool. Thanks.
My mom is a newspaper editor(small, IL paper)
and wanted me to look into getting her into the Nashville debate.
All my research starts on .Net, and rightfully so. Thanks again Epo.

[NewYorkDragons80]

Obama, however, did not agree to the Town hall debates McCain proposed. So aside from the obligatory debates, Obama turned down the others.

[ChrisTheCop]

Obama, however, did not agree to the Town hall debates McCain proposed. So aside from the obligatory debates, Obama turned down the others.

That is indeed what I meant.
I wasnt saying he wouldnt debate at all,
that would be like saying he would accept matching public funds.:wink:

[Zorro]

I love this thing....
http://www.breitbart.tv/html/143513.html

I love a good political dust up...this should help

[angrymissy]

I like this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPPLSHKH0h4

[angrymissy]

Obama, however, did not agree to the Town hall debates McCain proposed. So aside from the obligatory debates, Obama turned down the others.

McCain wanted 10 debates in 10 weeks, right after Obama was named as the nominee. McCain had plenty of time to campaign since he cinched it early, Obama was just getting started.

[ladyface]

This is all in the build up to the Christian fundamentalist wing of the GOP to claim He is the anti-christ. I'm telling you. They're going to go there.

[epo]

I love this thing....
http://www.breitbart.tv/html/143513.html

I love a good political dust up...this should help

I can't describe what a stupid idea this is. Mocking hope is one of the shittiest ideas a political candidate can have. Remember how well this worked:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/a1ckrEeHDRY&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/a1ckrEeHDRY&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

I can't believe McCain's people are dumb enough to play this game...especially since they saw Mark Penn fail with the same tactics 5 months earlier.

[PhishHead]

who allowed Epo to post again?

[epo]

McCain wanted 10 debates in 10 weeks, right after Obama was named as the nominee. McCain had plenty of time to campaign since he cinched it early, Obama was just getting started.

Exactly. McCain was trying to (and was partially successful) create a talking point that "Obama was ducking him". The offer itself was a clever ploy to get Obama to play on McCain's "home turf" of the town hall. It would have been the equivalent of Obama offering to have a "speech-off" once per week.

[foodcourtdruide]

Exactly. McCain was trying to (and was partially successful) create a talking point that "Obama was ducking him". The offer itself was a clever ploy to get Obama to play on McCain's "home turf" of the town hall. It would have been the equivalent of Obama offering to have a "speech-off" once per week.

Or challenging McCain to a game of basketball.

[epo]

Or challenging McCain to a game of basketball.

Or using the internets.

[ladyface]

Or using the internets.

Or a game of 'Capital Cities'.

[Zorro]

I can't describe what a stupid idea this is. Mocking hope is one of the shittiest ideas a political candidate can have. Remember how well this worked:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/a1ckrEeHDRY&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/a1ckrEeHDRY&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

I can't believe McCain's people are dumb enough to play this game...especially since they saw Mark Penn fail with the same tactics 5 months earlier.

Apparently you've been MIA on this. While it didn't work for Clinton it's actually been gaining traction for McCain...

[keithy_19]

Gallup has them tied at 44%. http://www.gallup.com/poll/109219/Gallup-Daily-Race-Tied-44.aspx

[epo]

Apparently you've been MIA on this. While it didn't work for Clinton it's actually been gaining traction for McCain...

It worked for Clinton in the short-term as well...but that's all it is, a short-term strategy. The McCain campaign better have a helluva strategy beyond this or they are screwing themselves.

[NewYorkDragons80]

McCain wanted 10 debates in 10 weeks, right after Obama was named as the nominee. McCain had plenty of time to campaign since he cinched it early, Obama was just getting started.
So how many weeks does Obama need to prepare in order to campaign? It's not like he began campaigning the day he got the nom. He had his ideas formed and he's obviously a gifted communicator. Why should the timeframe between clinching the nom and the town halls matter?

This was all about money. It's just like the federal matching funds. Obama realized town hall meetings level the playing field because they circumvent fundraising. A campaign on a shoestring budget could win big in the polls at a town hall. Conversely, a campaign with an enormous war chest could show their lack of improv skills and say something stupid that will put them in a position where all the millions and millions of dollars can't fix the image they solidified that night.

[TheMojoPin]

Now Obama doesn't have a problem with offshore drilling.

I'm all for a politician who is willing to change their mind, but this is getting ridiculous, especially when he took such a lofty and pronounced opposition to it and basically told people to get more tune-ups.

Tighten that shit up, son.

[sailor]

wrong thread

[TheMojoPin]

The energy crisis is like the primo election topic right now, foo'.

[epo]

Now Obama doesn't have a problem with offshore drilling.

I'm all for a politician who is willing to change their mind, but this is getting ridiculous, especially when he took such a lofty and pronounced opposition to it and basically told people to get more tune-ups.

Tighten that shit up, son.

I understand the need to take away McCain's wedge, but I'm not a fan of this shift.

[TheMojoPin]

I understand the need to take away McCain's wedge, but I'm not a fan of this shift.

He's basically stabbing Pelosi in the back with this.

Combined wih the wiretapping support, I'm getting very wary of voting for this man.

[Zorro]

It amazes me that the wheels are coming off the country and the best Obama seems to manage is a tie...

[foodcourtdruide]

I don't know why he said this. If you listen to his words he carefully constructs them to say drilling with many restrictions. If this is the case, why allow drilling at all? Your short-term gains are non-existant and your long-term gains could be irrelevant.

This really disappointed me. I think drilling offshore is akin to continiously lowering taxes and increasing the nations debt. You're simply putting a bandaid on a gaping knife wound.

Annoyed at Obama over this.

[extracheese]

goodbye to the

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/4294/vc1021lic2.jpg (http://imageshack.us) http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/4294/vc1021lic2.139eee1ff9.jpg (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=402&i=vc1021lic2.jpg)

[keithy_19]

Obama, the Non-Washington politican my ass.

[TheMojoPin]

goodbye to the

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/4294/vc1021lic2.jpg (http://imageshack.us) http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/4294/vc1021lic2.139eee1ff9.jpg (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=402&i=vc1021lic2.jpg)

Indian Ocean?

[epo]

Obama, the Non-Washington politican my ass.

Actually he's Chicago politician. Washington has nothing on them.

[Zorro]

Indian Ocean?

Magnetism...

[epo]

So here is the newest doozy from the McCain camp:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/pZKxWrPQFXc&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/pZKxWrPQFXc&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

So just because Obama didn't mention your hometown, he forgot about you? Seriously...McCain is a better man than this.

[Zorro]

So here is the newest doozy from the McCain camp:

(removed ad for brevity)

So just because Obama didn't mention your hometown, he forgot about you? Seriously...McCain is a better man than this.

Man...you gotta admit McCain has something going with these ads. Remember when Clinton hit her stride, but it was too late to win? McCain is appealing to those voters.

There's also dissension in Obama's base as evidenced by the "Open Letter to Barack" in the current issue of The Nation

Since your historic victory in the primary, there have been troubling signs that you are moving away from the core commitments shared by many who have supported your campaign, toward a more cautious and centrist stance--including, most notably, your vote for the FISA legislation granting telecom companies immunity from prosecution for illegal wiretapping, which angered and dismayed so many of your supporters.

Full letter here: http://www.thenation.com/doc/20080818/open_letter

I can't envision a scenario where McCain wins, but given Obama's problem with his base and the USA today poll showing young voters are now much less likely to vote at all come November. Obama needs some "strategery"

[epo]

<object width="464" height="388" classid="clsid:d27cdb6e-ae6d-11cf-96b8-444553540000"><param name="movie" value="http://www2.funnyordie.com/public/flash/fodplayer.swf?96d0a705" /><param name="flashvars" value="key=64ad536a6d" /><param name="allowfullscreen" value="true" /><embed width="464" height="388" flashvars="key=64ad536a6d" allowfullscreen="true" quality="high" src="http://www2.funnyordie.com/public/flash/fodplayer.swf?96d0a705" type="application/x-shockwave-flash"></embed></object><div style="text-align:center;width: 464px;">See more <a href="http://www.funnyordie.com/paris_hilton">Paris Hilton</a> videos at Funny or Die</div>

[NewYorkDragons80]

Uh oh.... It turns out that in 2005 Obama compared himself to Paris Hilton (http://www.time.com/time/verbatim/20050228/5.html).
I'm so overexposed, I'm making Paris Hilton look like a recluse

[scottinnj]

That was okay until the one minute mark, then the funny suddenly left the video.

[epo]

A nice little visual courtesy of today's Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2008/06/09/ST2008060900950.html). It shows the difference in McCain & Obama's tax plans.

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii49/j2christ/GR2008061200193.gif

I report, you decide.

[TooLowBrow]

A nice little visual courtesy of today's Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2008/06/09/ST2008060900950.html). It shows the difference in McCain & Obama's tax plans.

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii49/j2christ/GR2008061200193.gif

I report, you decide.

i have to make a decision... save $19 in taxes

or... save $567 in taxes

im gonna bet on black, just like in vegas

[epo]

i have to make a decision... save $19 in taxes

or... save $567 in taxes

im gonna bet on black, just like in vegas

Maybe this race will eventually be about ideas!

(I'm still doubting it.)

[Zorro]

Just got a text message from Obama campaign "Barack will announce his VP choice via txt msg between now and the convention"

[epo]

Just got a text message from Obama campaign "Barack will announce his VP choice via txt msg between now and the convention"

That campaign certainly does love technology.

[TooLowBrow]

Just got a text message from Obama campaign "Barack will announce his VP choice via txt msg between now and the convention"

so.. you got that going for you

[Zorro]

Obama email

Barack Obama is about to make one of the most important decisions of this campaign -- choosing a running mate.

You have helped build this movement from the bottom up, and Barack wants you to be the first to know his choice.

Sign up today to be the first to know:

http://my.barackobama.com/vp

You will receive an email the moment Barack makes his decision, or you can text VP to 62262 to receive a text message on your mobile phone.

Once you've signed up, please forward this email to your friends, family, and coworkers to let them know about this special opportunity.

No other campaign has done this before. You can be part of this important moment.

[epo]

Obama email

Hence leading to a string of text messages for the 18-29 demographic reminding them to vote on November 4.

It seems to be a smart play.

[cougarjake13]

Just got a text message from Obama campaign "Barack will announce his VP choice via txt msg between now and the convention"

so.. you got that going for you

which is nice

[TooLowBrow]

which is nice

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g82/jubjub2112/CaddyShackBillMurrayUnkempt.jpg
:thumbup:

[Jujubees2]

Now Obama doesn't have a problem with offshore drilling.

I'm all for a politician who is willing to change their mind, but this is getting ridiculous, especially when he took such a lofty and pronounced opposition to it and basically told people to get more tune-ups.

Tighten that shit up, son.

It's called a compromise. He will agree to limited offshore drilling in exchange for devoting more resources to finding alternative energy sources.

After eight years of an administration just ramming through their agenda, it's a welcome relief that someone is willing to compromise. That's how things used to get done in the good old days of politics.

[epo]

Serious question. The Olympics are obviously a gigantic opportunity to reach the non-political crowd for both candidates. Both are running ads as they should be. Here are both ads:

McCain:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/_3DxDBH9nn4&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/_3DxDBH9nn4&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Obama:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/tz7m2JhVOdY&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/tz7m2JhVOdY&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Now can somebody explain to me what the fuck McCain is doing? During the Olympics he's going negative? So the Americans win all of these gold medals and he wants people to feel negative? Is this how Steve Schmidt is presenting John McCain?

[epo]

Epo might be backing off the racist elements, but not me. I intend to find racism in everything the campaign releases, and I know there's an army of people like me who hope to expose McCain for the racist he is. Come back to us, epo.

I find today's "web ad" by the McCain people to be pathetic and building upon the "quiet" racist theme from the "Celebrity" ad. First the ad:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/aIOvJ0L2Rys&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/aIOvJ0L2Rys&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

4 females all proclaiming their love for Obama, all white of course. The ad ends with the line "hot chicks dig Obama". Seriously white men....fear his BIG BLACK COCK! He'll steal your chicks and once they go black they won't come back!

Also, nice lie about the $42K tax increase policy.

[HBox]

I find today's "web ad" by the McCain people to be pathetic and building upon the "quiet" racist theme from the "Celebrity" ad. First the ad:

<object height="344" width="425">

<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/aIOvJ0L2Rys&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" height="344" width="425"></object>

4 females all proclaiming their love for Obama, all white of course. The ad ends with the line "hot chicks dig Obama". Seriously white men....fear his BIG BLACK COCK! He'll steal your chicks and once they go black they won't come back!

Also, nice lie about the $42K tax increase policy.

On the plus side now I have an awesome sig.

[A.J.]

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/aIOvJ0L2Rys&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/aIOvJ0L2Rys&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

4 females all proclaiming their love for Obama, all white of course. The ad ends with the line "hot chicks dig Obama". Seriously white men....fear his BIG BLACK COCK! He'll steal your chicks and once they go black they won't come back!

"Oh, it's twue it's twue!"

http://www.morethings.com/fan/blazing_saddles/madeline_kahn-cleavon_little.jpg

[Zorro]

http://www.gallup.com/poll/109564/Gallup-Daily-McCain-Obama-Tied-44.aspx

[Jujubees2]

http://www.gallup.com/poll/109564/Gallup-Daily-McCain-Obama-Tied-44.aspx

I've never understood the significance of a national poll for presidential elections. Popular vote means nothing in a presidential election as Al Gore found out in 2000.

[Zorro]

I've never understood the significance of a national poll for presidential elections. Popular vote means nothing in a presidential election as Al Gore found out in 2000.

It's a pretty good indicator of trends

[epo]

It's a pretty good indicator of trends

It's a decent indicator of the feel of the day, I'll grant that point. However this Obama/McCain tracking poll has naturally ebbing/flowing from Obama +7 to even since late June. Never has McCain really broken out of that rut.

Furthermore with the international mess in Georgia & the Obama family on vacation, McCain absolutely should have picked up ground this week.

For a great view of the race, go to 538.com (http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/).

[epo]

I found this little nugget today on the Gallup (http://www.gallup.com/poll/108061/Candidate-Support-Red-Purple-Blue-States.aspx) polling data page. It breaks down the race by Red/Blue/Purple states. While I in many ways hate those terms, it is interesting data.

[epo]

July's official fundraising numbers are in: (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0808/12577.html)

Obama - $51 M
McCain - $27 M

That is a record month for both candidates.

[Dirtybird12]

859 members of the military donated a total of $335,536 to Obama. McCain received $280,513 from 558 military donors.

Among soldiers serving overseas at the time of their donations, 134 gave a total of $60,642 to Obama while 26 gave a total of $10,665 to McCain. That was less than the amount received by Republican Ron Paul, who collected $45,512 from 99 soldiers serving abroad, the report said.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-08-14-military-donations_N.htm

[NewYorkDragons80]

859 members of the military donated a total of $335,536 to Obama. McCain received $280,513 from 558 military donors.

Among soldiers serving overseas at the time of their donations, 134 gave a total of $60,642 to Obama while 26 gave a total of $10,665 to McCain. That was less than the amount received by Republican Ron Paul, who collected $45,512 from 99 soldiers serving abroad, the report said.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-08-14-military-donations_N.htm
I've given around $300 to McCain since June of 07, and my name still hasn't shown up on Opensecrets. So until I see myself included, I consider these studies to be incomplete.

[Zorro]

I've given around $300 to McCain since June of 07, and my name still hasn't shown up on Opensecrets. So until I see myself included, I consider these studies to be incomplete.

You'd be better off buying lotto tickets... mega's up to 81 million

[cougarjake13]

im gonna vote for pete rose

[TooLowBrow]

im gonna vote for pete rose

i'll bet you $50 he doesnt win

[cougarjake13]

i'll bet you $50 he doesnt win

wow only 50 ???

[scottinnj]

im gonna vote for pete rose

After watching the administration get caught with their pants down during the Russian invasion of Georgia and S. Ossettia, I'm all for just walking in to the booth, and pressing every damn button and whichever one is lit when I press the "vote" button that's who I want for President.


ANYTHING IS BETTER THEN THIS!

[angrymissy]

I can't take people like this. I can't take it. They freaking exist.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/SpJfWOWkB2Q&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/SpJfWOWkB2Q&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[A.J.]

I can't take people like this. I can't take it. They freaking exist.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/SpJfWOWkB2Q&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/SpJfWOWkB2Q&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

"We need God in our governments." Fucking dullards. I so want to form an atheist political party.

I swear, people like this need to spend some time in Saudi Arabia where THEIR government is based upon a holy book. And because of that, they just issued a fatwa that the celebration of birthdays and anniversaries is un-Islamic because it's not in the Quran and because it imitates non-Islamic religions. (http://www.arabnews.com/?page=1&section=0&article=113092&d=20&m=8&y=2008)

[angrymissy]

"We need God in our governments." Fucking dullards. I so want to form an atheist political party.

I swear, people like this need to spend some time in Saudi Arabia where THEIR government is based upon a holy book. And because of that, they just issued a fatwa that the celebration of birthdays and anniversaries is un-Islamic because it's not in the Quran and because it imitates non-Islamic religions. (http://www.arabnews.com/?page=1&section=0&article=113092&d=20&m=8&y=2008)

I would kill for a truly atheist President.

[Jujubees2]

I would kill for a truly atheist President.

Just sign up for the Army and you can go to Iraq right now and KILL for a Christian president!

[badmonkey]

http://jimvarney.org/ernest.jpg
You can't have Government without Vern...
Knowhattamean?

[angrymissy]

I swear, people like this need to spend some time in Saudi Arabia where THEIR government is based upon a holy book. And because of that, they just issued a fatwa that the celebration of birthdays and anniversaries is un-Islamic because it's not in the Quran and because it imitates non-Islamic religions. (http://www.arabnews.com/?page=1&section=0&article=113092&d=20&m=8&y=2008)

But they're BROWN so it's different.

[K.C.]

i'll bet you $50 he doesnt win

He'll get 100% of the vote out of Philadelphia, I know that much.

[HBox]

I can't take people like this. I can't take it. They freaking exist.

<object height="344" width="425">

<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/SpJfWOWkB2Q&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" height="344" width="425"></object>

I need to read this bawble.

That dumb little girl said, and this is word for word, "President Bush would say and hold up to what he would say we would not be in what were now because he says he's such Christian and believes in the Bible but yet he's not doing what he needs to be doin."

[Recyclerz]

I need to read this bawble.

That dumb little girl said, and this is word for word, "President Bush would say and hold up to what he would say we would not be in what were now because he says he's such Christian and believes in the Bible but yet he's not doing what he needs to be doin."


I don't think it is fair to judge all Christians, Southerners or even Southern Christians by these poor benighted people. I've spent a fair amount of time down in Dixie over the last ten years and I've generally liked most of the people I've met and worked with down there, albeit with some fairly stark political and social differences. Admittedly, most of the folks I've gotten to know have been to college so they have a wider perspective on the world then those ladies in the video. But I'm sure that Badmonkey or TeeBone could link us to some videos made by Young Republicans who find similarly "low information" Obama supporters.

Although it is way too early to start getting fraidy scared by the polls, I'm starting to worry that I've underestimated the latent level of racism remaining in the white population. I'v encountered many older folks (60+) in my circle of acquaintences, who frankly should know better, coming up with some of the same lame excuses on why they're not supporting Obama as we've seen in some of these wacky you tube videos.

[HBox]

I don't think it is fair to judge all Christians, Southerners or even Southern Christians by these poor benighted people. I've spent a fair amount of time down in Dixie over the last ten years and I've generally liked most of the people I've met and worked with down there, albeit with some fairly stark political and social differences. Admittedly, most of the folks I've gotten to know have been to college so they have a wider perspective on the world then those ladies in the video. But I'm sure that Badmonkey or TeeBone could link us to some videos made by Young Republicans who find similarly "low information" Obama supporters.

Although it is way too early to start getting fraidy scared by the polls, I'm starting to worry that I've underestimated the latent level of racism remaining in the white population. I'v encountered many older folks (60+) in my circle of acquaintences, who frankly should know better, coming up with some of the same lame excuses on why they're not supporting Obama as we've seen in some of these wacky you tube videos.

Hey. I was just making fun of these people because they can't speak correctly.

[Recyclerz]

Hey. I was just making fun of these people because they can't speak correctly.

Oh, that's OK then. :smile:

[scottinnj]

I'v encountered many older folks (60+) in my circle of acquaintences, who frankly should know better, coming up with some of the same lame excuses on why they're not supporting Obama as we've seen in some of these wacky you tube videos.


You've met my mom? Her excuse is that "Obama is a dynamic, energetic politician. Just like what the Bible says how the AntiChrist is going to be like."

Obama is the AntiChrist. My mom has said a lot of dumb, stupid close minded things, but that one made me want to choke her to death.

[angrymissy]

You've met my mom? Her excuse is that "Obama is a dynamic, energetic politician. Just like what the Bible says how the AntiChrist is going to be like."

Obama is the AntiChrist. My mom has said a lot of dumb, stupid close minded things, but that one made me want to choke her to death.

My Grandmother is very intelligent and with it (and not religious), and she was adamant that Obama is the anti-christ. I was shocked to hear it coming from her.

She also said something along the lines of "give him a hat and two cymbals and you've got a monkey"

[PapaBear]

that one made me want to choke her to death.
Just tell the cops the Anti Christ made you do it.

[A.J.]

I would kill for a truly atheist President.

I'll do it then. And I'm naming Jeff Ambassador to China.

[scottinnj]

Oooof, Ken Burns on MSNBC was a bit too much in his glowing praises of Ted Kennedy.

I like the guy, but that was damn close to groupie obsession.

[Zorro]

Oooof, Ken Burns on MSNBC was a bit too much in his glowing praises of Ted Kennedy.

I like the guy, but that was damn close to groupie obsession.

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n67/Chas4604/tedvwsmall.jpg

[angrymissy]

Oooof, Ken Burns on MSNBC was a bit too much in his glowing praises of Ted Kennedy.

I like the guy, but that was damn close to groupie obsession.

I think Chris Matthews had a hard on over it. It was a good speech, but they were salivating over it wayyyyy too much.

[K.C.]

In the 'no one is listening' section:

<iframe height="339" width="425" src="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22425001/vp/26439584#26439584" frameborder="0" scrolling="no"></iframe>

[epo]

The latest USA Today/ Gallup Poll is out about the VP picks for both candidates. (Link here (http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-08-30-palin-poll_N.htm)) The net numbers for "more likely to vote for" on both sides are basically equal. But there are some interesting numbers in terms of "Qualified to Serve":

Biden's numbers are 57% Qualified, 18% Not Qualified, 26% no opinion. That's a net number of +39%

Palin's numbers are 39% Qualified, 33% Not Qualified, 29% no opinion. That's a net number of +6%.


If you are one of the campaigns do you go after the undecideds on the VP or does it really make a difference? Given the context that the "more likely to vote for" number is tied so it may not matter under some analysis, but Palin's net number is the lowest confidence number since Dan Quayle.

[GreatAmericanZero]

i dont know where it happened, but at some point Epo became the political writer whose work i read the most of. His posts have rose above the regular political columnist and bloggers i come across

[epo]

A snippet from tomorrow's 60's Minutes interview with Obama & Biden

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/oHi0K-78ZaQ&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/oHi0K-78ZaQ&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Note that he avoided trashing Governor Palin when given the opportunity. Good for him, let's make this about the issues.

[Zorro]

A snippet from tomorrow's 60's Minutes interview with Obama & Biden

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/oHi0K-78ZaQ&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/oHi0K-78ZaQ&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Note that he avoided trashing Governor Palin when given the opportunity. Good for him, let's make this about the issues.

Palin was such an unexpected pick the Obama campaign had nothing on her. I'm sure the opposition research team is in full action mode and the trashing will begin when and if necessary.

[epo]

Palin was such an unexpected pick the Obama campaign had nothing on her. I'm sure the opposition research team is in full action mode and the trashing will begin when and if necessary.

Or the trashing is being left to political surrogates. Let the crazies say the crazy stuff and make the Quayle or Harriet Myers comparisons.

If Senator Obama has one weakness it is that he only attacks when absolutely necessary.

[JerseySean]

Or the trashing is being left to political surrogates. Let the crazies say the crazy stuff and make the Quayle or Harriet Myers comparisons.

If Senator Obama has one weakness it is that he only attacks when absolutely necessary.

Yea but the problem is that it needs to be women doing this. But then who are the women surrogates Obama could use. Sebilius from Kansas? No. McCaskill from MO, no. hillary is still in a room buring Barack in effigy.

[foodcourtdruide]

Yea but the problem is that it needs to be women doing this. But then who are the women surrogates Obama could use. Sebilius from Kansas? No. McCaskill from MO, no. hillary is still in a room buring Barack in effigy.

Huh? Am I missing something? Where?

[epo]

Yea but the problem is that it needs to be women doing this. But then who are the women surrogates Obama could use. Sebilius from Kansas? No. McCaskill from MO, no. hillary is still in a room buring Barack in effigy.

Actually Clinton is the PERFECT surrogate to go on the attack against Palin. At this point there isn't a need to send her out yet, as the media is having a field day with her while they figure out who this Governor is.

If she needs defining in a week, expect to see a woman in a pantsuit on your TV.

[JerseySean]

Actually Clinton is the PERFECT surrogate to go on the attack against Palin. At this point there isn't a need to send her out yet, as the media is having a field day with her while they figure out who this Governor is.

If she needs defining in a week, expect to see a woman in a pantsuit on your TV.

Dude, she has to be FURIOUS, fucking FURIOUS that she wasnt selected for VP and then this chick was for McCain. We all know her personality and what makes her tick, do you think shes really ready to go on the attack for him. I think not. Plus she put such an emphesis on being a woman when running, she may screw up her own Presidential ambitions down the road.

[epo]

Dude, she has to be FURIOUS, fucking FURIOUS that she wasnt selected for VP and then this chick was for McCain. We all know her personality and what makes her tick, do you think shes really ready to go on the attack for him. I think not. Plus she put such an emphesis on being a woman when running, she may screw up her own Presidential ambitions down the road.

Actually DUDE, she has to be FURIOUS with the McCain campaign for being so condescending to her supporters that he thought by picking a person with the same plumbing that he'd appeal to her people.

I think not.

And if she has ambitions down the road, or if she is worried about the "Clinton legacy" in history...she'll destroy Governor Palin, if there is anything left to destroy after this week.

[thejives]

And if she has ambitions down the road, or if she is worried about the "Clinton legacy" in history...she'll destroy Governor Palin, if there is anything left to destroy after this week.

You're right. (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/01/us/politics/01clinton.html?bl&ex=1220500800&en=1a179099917e6d64&ei=5087%0A) As always.

Please stop quoting this guy. He's not a serious poster.

[JerseySean]

Actually DUDE, she has to be FURIOUS with the McCain campaign for being so condescending to her supporters that he thought by picking a person with the same plumbing that he'd appeal to her people.

I think not.

And if she has ambitions down the road, or if she is worried about the "Clinton legacy" in history...she'll destroy Governor Palin, if there is anything left to destroy after this week.

She will do just enough for Obama to say she kept her promise.

[A.J.]

She will do just enough for Obama to say she kept her promise.

"Don't keep your distance."

http://laurendo.files.wordpress.com/2006/11/evita.jpg

[NewYorkDragons80]

She also said something along the lines of "give him a hat and two cymbals and you've got a monkey"
The same could be said for Bush.

EDIT: The same is said regularly about Bush

[angrymissy]

The same could be said for Bush.

EDIT: The same is said regularly about Bush

Yeah, but I know what good ol' Grandma meant (personally) with that statement.

[foodcourtdruide]

Dude, she has to be FURIOUS, fucking FURIOUS that she wasnt selected for VP and then this chick was for McCain. We all know her personality and what makes her tick, do you think shes really ready to go on the attack for him. I think not. Plus she put such an emphesis on being a woman when running, she may screw up her own Presidential ambitions down the road.

Did you see what she said at the convention? Are you still believing the media lie that Hillary Clinton is huddled in a corner waiting to destroy Obama?

[TheMojoPin]

Palin really is in a win-win siuation with her speech tonight. The bar has been set so low for her that even if she completely screws it up she still "succeeds."

[A.J.]

Palin really is in a win-win siuation with her speech tonight. The bar has been set so low for her that even if she completely screws it up she still "succeeds."

Voting on the curve! Woo hoo!

[TheMojoPin]

I never thought there'd be someone on a presidential ticket who would be hidden from the press as much as Bush, but hey, here we are with Palin. I fully expect the Republicans to try running the Unknown Comic the next go-around.

[DolaMight]

sure drudge is what it is and US is just a soap opera mag but what can you say.

US WEEKLY MAG CASTS ITS VOTE EARLY...
<img src="http://www.drudgereport.com/us1.jpg">
<img src="http://markhalperin.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/usnewscover.jpg" width="200">

[NewYorkDragons80]

Yeah, but I know what good ol' Grandma meant (personally) with that statement.
I can only assume what she meant, but Obama has pretty big ears. I'm only sayin...

[JerseySean]

I never thought there'd be someone on a presidential ticket who would be hidden from the press as much as Bush, but hey, here we are with Palin. I fully expect the Republicans to try running the Unknown Comic the next go-around.

Come on, she will be more than available after the convention. The McCain camp wants this to be the first big impression to the American people of an unknown.

[celery]

Has Drudge always been such a right-wing propagandist? I know he's been accused of it in the past, but I can't ever remember it being so blatant. I'm taking his site off my bookmarks.


HURRICANE SARAH HITS ST. PAUL

ALASKAN WONDER READIES SPEECH OF A LIFETIME...

CHANCE TO FIRE BACK AT MEDIA...

McCain, a leader for all civilizations, says former rival...

PEYSER: A TIME-WARPED SEXIST ASSAULT ON PALIN...

NOONAN: Clear and Present Danger To the American Left...

WSJ: Why Obama Can't Close the Sale... Buchanan: McCain took 'biggest gamble in presidential history'; is 'paying off, big-time'...

UK: Why Sarah has the X appeal...

[JerseySean]

Has Drudge always been such a right-wing propagandist? I know he's been accused of it in the past, but I can't ever remember it being so blatant. I'm taking his site off my bookmarks.


HURRICANE SARAH HITS ST. PAUL

ALASKAN WONDER READIES SPEECH OF A LIFETIME...

CHANCE TO FIRE BACK AT MEDIA...

McCain, a leader for all civilizations, says former rival...

PEYSER: A TIME-WARPED SEXIST ASSAULT ON PALIN...

NOONAN: Clear and Present Danger To the American Left...

WSJ: Why Obama Can't Close the Sale... Buchanan: McCain took 'biggest gamble in presidential history'; is 'paying off, big-time'...

UK: Why Sarah has the X appeal...

No Drudge put up the Obama and Hillary stuff that way too. I honestly dont think this is out of the ordinary for covering a big political story.

[TheMojoPin]

Come on, she will be more than available after the convention. The McCain camp wants this to be the first big impression to the American people of an unknown.

So why even bother announcing before the convention?

[JerseySean]

So why even bother announcing before the convention?

Because it creates a buzz. Obviously that has worked for better or worse. She made appearances with McCain over the weekend. Tonight will be her big night. I think this complaint is premature at this point. If it is the same situation next week, i would think its valid.

[TheMojoPin]

Because it creates a buzz. Obviously that has worked for better or worse. She made appearances with McCain over the weekend. Tonight will be her big night. I think this complaint is premature at this point. If it is the same situation next week, i would think its valid.

I think it's plenty valid now. She's been the VP candidate for almost a week now and hasn't been open to the press for questioning once. It's absurd.

[celery]

No Drudge put up the Obama and Hillary stuff that way too. I honestly dont think this is out of the ordinary for covering a big political story.

http://www.drudgereportarchives.com/data/2008/08/27/20080827_150258.htm

CNN: BILL TO SKIP BARACK'S BIG NIGHT

WIRE: Obama Speech Site Resembles 'Ancient Greek Temple'...

Clinton Supporters Say 'Speech Didn't Heal'...

...excitement faded quickly

GALLUP Daily: McCain Takes Lead After Biden Pick...

[epo]

http://www.drudgereportarchives.com/data/2008/08/27/20080827_150258.htm

CNN: BILL TO SKIP BARACK'S BIG NIGHT

WIRE: Obama Speech Site Resembles 'Ancient Greek Temple'...

Clinton Supporters Say 'Speech Didn't Heal'...

...excitement faded quickly

GALLUP Daily: McCain Takes Lead After Biden Pick...

Fair and Balanced!

[JerseySean]

http://www.drudgereportarchives.com/data/2008/08/27/20080827_150258.htm

CNN: BILL TO SKIP BARACK'S BIG NIGHT

WIRE: Obama Speech Site Resembles 'Ancient Greek Temple'...

Clinton Supporters Say 'Speech Didn't Heal'...

...excitement faded quickly

GALLUP Daily: McCain Takes Lead After Biden Pick...

Pull it from last Friday. You dont think the Clinton v Obama thing is worth bringing up? Obama got the same thing after hsi speech

[celery]

Pull it from last Friday. You dont think the Clinton v Obama thing is worth bringing up? Obama got the same thing after hsi speech

Fair enough..

superseded by McCain picking Palin (which is newsworthy, I'll give you that).

----
http://www.drudgereportarchives.com/data/2008/08/29/20080829_032738.htm

THE SPEECH

DENVER ROCKED...

Obama embarks on 67-day sprint to election...

GALLUP DAILY: OBAMA UP BY 6...

AP: Obama speech spares details, keeps up attacks...

----

Just added to today's headlines:

THEN: NEWSWEEK PRAISED PALIN IN OCT 2007...

McCain ad: Palin more qualified than Obama...

He clearly has a hard-on for Sarah Palin.

[JerseySean]

Fair enough..

superseded by McCain picking Palin (which is newsworthy, I'll give you that).

----
http://www.drudgereportarchives.com/data/2008/08/29/20080829_032738.htm

THE SPEECH

DENVER ROCKED...

Obama embarks on 67-day sprint to election...

GALLUP DAILY: OBAMA UP BY 6...

AP: Obama speech spares details, keeps up attacks...

----

Just added to today's headlines:

THEN: NEWSWEEK PRAISED PALIN IN OCT 2007...

McCain ad: Palin more qualified than Obama...

Even if you look at the DEMOCRAT:devil2: stuff during the primary, youll see similar stuff as well. Drudge usually picks a good story and sensationalized it on his page. Im fine with that and I think he has been pretty fair. As far as a hardon for Palin, this is an exciting time. It is not every day that someone that noone has heard of gets thrust into the national arena like this. You have to admit this is a 4 time in a lifetime event.

[DolaMight]

Fair enough..

superseded by McCain picking Palin (which is newsworthy, I'll give you that).

----
http://www.drudgereportarchives.com/data/2008/08/29/20080829_032738.htm


I didn't know that drudge hosted archives

I know about the waybackmachine.com but drudge has a cache of every change to the page.

I went back to a random date in the runup to the Iraq war and I forgot how ridiculous and phony those scare stories were.

Look how scary this headline was:
U.S Officials: Iraqi Drones May Target American Cities (http://www.drudgereportarchives.com/data/2003/02/24/20030224_232831.htm)

the source of course
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,79450,00.html

[NewYorkDragons80]

I think it's plenty valid now. She's been the VP candidate for almost a week now and hasn't been open to the press for questioning once. It's absurd.
If she's this unavailable after the convention, then it's a cause for concern. However, I think this is a calculated move to allow the sharks to circle and let her remain silent, then have her give a really powerful speech tonight. Will the speech be that strong? Will this move pay off? We'll see. Maybe you're right and the bar has been set low, but I'm pretty confident in her speaking skills. Let's see if I'm proven wrong tonight.

[TheMojoPin]

If she's this unavailable after the convention, then it's a cause for concern. However, I think this is a calculated move to allow the sharks to circle and let her remain silent, then have her give a really powerful speech tonight. Will the speech be that strong? Will this move pay off? We'll see. Maybe you're right and the bar has been set low, but I'm pretty confident in her speaking skills. Let's see if I'm proven wrong tonight.

I agree it was a calculated move, but I think it was more to let the baby story hit and hopefully fade and potentially avoid the quagmire of the hurriaine turning into areal disaster. That said, I don't think it bodes well for their pick if they thought so little of her ability to handle herself in the midst of all that that they completely removed her from media inquiry.

[JerseySean]

If she's this unavailable after the convention, then it's a cause for concern. However, I think this is a calculated move to allow the sharks to circle and let her remain silent, then have her give a really powerful speech tonight. Will the speech be that strong? Will this move pay off? We'll see. Maybe you're right and the bar has been set low, but I'm pretty confident in her speaking skills. Let's see if I'm proven wrong tonight.

Right his critizism will be valid in about a week. Of course it is calculated. Its not about hiding it is about max impact tonight.