Rep. Gabrielle Giffords and Staff Shot in Arizona

[WRESTLINGFAN]

A passage from the kos.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:8DSJuFJ9ZaIJ:m.dailykos.com/stories/2011/1/6/933828/-.html+My+CongressMAN+voted+against+Nancy+Pelosi!+A nd+is+now+DEAD+to+me!&cd=6&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

[KnoxHarrington]

A passage from the kos.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:8DSJuFJ9ZaIJ:m.dailykos.com/stories/2011/1/6/933828/-.html+My+CongressMAN+voted+against+Nancy+Pelosi!+A nd+is+now+DEAD+to+me!&cd=6&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

Seriously, you're digging through Kos message boards and finding someone using the phrase "dead to me" and representing that as a threat? I think most illegal aliens have a better grasp of English idiomatic phrases than you do.

Here is the bigger issue here. You keep picking random douchebags on cable TV or posters. This comment, on the other hand, comes from a sitting member of the House of Representatives:

"I want people in Minnesota armed and dangerous on this issue of the energy tax because we need to fight back. Thomas Jefferson told us, "Having a revolution every now and then is a good thing," and the people – we the people – are going to have to fight back hard if we're not going to lose our country. And I think this has the potential of changing the dynamic of freedom forever in the United States."

The crazies are much more in the mainstream and at the center of the political right.

[StanUpshaw]

Thomas Jefferson is directly responsible for shooting those people.

[A.J.]

I never understood the spouse being able to take over. It just doesn't seem to make any sense to me virtually willing over your job, or worse since this time it isn't even proven they'd give that to their spouse as a will would legally indicate.

It's not "taking over" per se: they still have to be elected to the seat. Typically in these instances, the late Members were already in "safe districts". The widow is simply nominated as the incumbent party's primary candidate (without challenge) and then goes on to run in the special election. Like I said, it's assumed that they'd win anyway -- and maybe with a little extra "sympathy vote" to boot.

[HBox]

In this case the spouse is an astronaut. i doubt he would give that up for her seat.

[underdog]

In this case the spouse is an astronaut. i doubt he would give that up for her seat.

He's an "astronaut"?

[HBox]

He's an "astronaut"?

Yep. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_E._Kelly)

[Ogre]

Back in 2002 Cass Sunstein published the book Republic.Com. In it he predicted the new media's effect on political discourse. I remember at the time thinking the guy really hit on something when he suggested the biggest effect would be that no longer would you be forced to seek out news nor would you be exposed to differing points of view. What was happening he said was that we were each developing our own versions of The Daily Me. So, instead of having to turn the pages of a newspaper and be introduced to a story we would otherwise not read now we can seek out stories that echo the opinions we already hold.

So, you have Ron Perlman only watching MSNBC or Anthony Cumia getting his news from FOX. Even newspapers like the Times or WSJ are demographically driven to "give you what you want" not challenge long held beliefs.

I'm not sure news was ever fair and balanced. My personal opinion is it had more to do with a homogenous society than actual balancing, but I'm just some dope from Queens. Even if it was it will never be again. It is marketed like soap and like soap it's just another product to consume. Truth apparently is relative.

Agreed and Agreed. Optics is and always will be the foundation for the "Truth" as it is presented to the masses for consumption and record.

[Furtherman]

The 9 year old girl who was killed was born on 9/11/2001.

Also was the granddaughter of former Phillies coach Dallas Green.

So tragic.

[underdog]

Yep. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_E._Kelly)

He definitely looks like an "astronaut". I wonder if Fez knows him.

[Dudeman]

Seriously, you're digging through Kos message boards and finding someone using the phrase "dead to me" and representing that as a threat? I think most illegal aliens have a better grasp of English idiomatic phrases than you do.

Here is the bigger issue here. You keep picking random douchebags on cable TV or posters. This comment, on the other hand, comes from a sitting member of the House of Representatives:



The crazies are much more in the mainstream and at the center of the political right.

Yeah, there is no comparison between Palin (Rep VP nominee), Bachmann (Rep congresswoman), Angle (Rep senate nominee), OReilly & Beck (who are popular authors and TV personlaities) with anyone on MSNBC, which has crappy ratings. Maybe the better comparison is Beck with Jon Stewart.

BECK DC RALLY SIGNS:
http://www.strangepolitics.com/images/content/167617.jpg
http://kaystreet.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/616px-obama-nazi_comparison_-_tea_party_protest.jpg

RALLY TO RESTORE SANITY SIGNS
http://hurryupharry.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/sanity.jpg
http://www.themudflats.net/wp-content/uploads/Sanity-signs-deux-496x500.jpg
http://www.mediaite.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/185266366.jpg

[hanso]

You were the fucking retard who brought up the transplant issue in the first place trying to instigate. Tell me, WHAT KIND OF ORGAN TRANSPLANT DO YOU NEED FOR A GSW TO THE HEAD?!?

You were the fucking retard that keeps hashing this shit over when I already told you my intention. If you can't figure it out yourself. Or keep on hashing. Then my last option will be to add you on my troll list.

[hanso]

What the fuck are you talking about? He didnt mention Beck and Fox news by name but that was his message. His words were like people who listen to certain radio hosts and watch popular cable shows.


This is supposed to be a top law enforcement official in the county and he says idiotc things like this.

Didn't you just get done saying it is the same on both sides? Now this has to mean one thing only?

[Ogre]

You were the fucking retard who brought up the transplant issue in the first place trying to instigate. Tell me, WHAT KIND OF ORGAN TRANSPLANT DO YOU NEED FOR A GSW TO THE HEAD?!?

Im no Dr. Steve, but I would have to guess...Brain?

[Tenbatsuzen]

In this case the spouse is an astronaut. i doubt he would give that up for her seat.

Yes, but he's an astronaut who is going to be out of a job soon. I believe he's piloting one of the last shuttle missions. Then he'll have nothing to do. So the decision is - pilot the last shuttle mission on a FLYING DEATHTRAP or take a secure job that will have a lifelong pension.

[Tenbatsuzen]

Im no Dr. Steve, but I would have to guess...Brain?

...they can do that now? Shit, then, get my scrubs!

[HBox]

Let's look for a second at Trent Franks, a Republican representative from Arizona. He's been a Rep since 2003.

This is what he said today on Meet The Press: (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40988386/ns/politics/)

On NBC’s Meet the Press Sunday, a fellow member of the Arizona delegation, Republican Rep. Trent Franks said it was ironic that when Giffords “was out doing her job as a member of Congress, some deranged degenerate shot her down. And I will tell you that I think that’s an attack not only on freedom and the country itself; it’s an attack on humanity.”

Pay attention to that bolded part as you watch this video of Trent Franks from September 26, 2009.

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/9HpcfU2bh1g?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/9HpcfU2bh1g?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

Here's the relevant quote from the video:

A president that has lost his way that badly, that has no ability to see the image of God in these little fellow human beings, if he can't do that right, then he has no place in any station of government and we need to realize that he is an enemy of humanity.

Was anything made of this today on Meet The Press? Of course not.

[A.J.]

You were the fucking retard who brought up the transplant issue in the first place trying to instigate. Tell me, WHAT KIND OF ORGAN TRANSPLANT DO YOU NEED FOR A GSW TO THE HEAD?!?

Im no Dr. Steve, but I would have to guess...Brain?

...they can do that now? Shit, then, get my scrubs!

You'll probably need this too....

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31KZVY0WJ6L._SX500_.jpg

[sailor]

He used a similar phrase twice; so what? Unless you're saying he thinks Obama did it.

[StanUpshaw]

We've already established that Thomas Jefferson did it, so I think Obama is in the clear.

[HBox]

He used a similar phrase twice; so what? Unless you're saying he thinks Obama did it.

I'm saying that he used a similar phrase to describe an insane murderer and the fucking President of the United States, Barack Obama. If you can't see what is wrong with that I don't know what else to say.

[sailor]

I'm saying that he used a similar phrase to describe an insane murderer and the fucking President of the United States, Barack Obama. If you can't see what is wrong with that I don't know what else to say.

that really is silly. what if he said they were both crazy? it really is s stretch, especially other than the humanity part, he used different words.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Didn't you just get done saying it is the same on both sides? Now this has to mean one thing only?



So the sheriff is comparing Arizona to what was going on in the south 60 years ago? What a fucking cheap comment by someone looking to get some face time. There aren't lynchings of Hispanics or German shepards and hoses on them.There are no segregated drinking fountains It was a crazed lunatic who shot RFK and it is a lunatic who shot Giffords and the other victims yesterday.

[Snacks]

So the sheriff is comparing Arizona to what was going on in the south 60 years ago? What a fucking cheap comment by someone looking to get some face time. There aren't lynchings of Hispanics or German shepards and hoses on them.There are no segregated drinking fountains It was a crazed lunatic who shot RFK and it is a lunatic who shot Giffords and the other victims yesterday.

but isnt the crazed lunatic always someone who believes in what the right (repubs) stands for?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Loughner's reading list included the communist manifesto and he isn't a believer of god. And hates Israel His ramblings are all over the place

[disneyspy]

http://imeanwhat.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/Sarah-Palin-001.jpg

[Dudeman]

Loughner's reading list included the communist manifesto and he isn't a believer of god. And hates Israel His ramblings are all over the place

That still doesn't justify the excessive hate from the right. Just because you don't come out and say to take a gun and shoot the politician, it is highly inflammatory to talk about taking "second amendment remedies" to deal with "enemies of hummanity."

Also, how did someone who apparently was showing signs of severe mental illness purchase a gun legally? Thanks for the strict interpretation of the 2nd amendment.

Finally, should there be any government funding of care for those with severe mental illness. Clearly when they don't get the help they need they are not only a danger to themselves but to innocent 9 year olds. But I guess taxes to support government programs, like child protective services or support for the mentally ill) is government greed. (Maybe churches and charities can diagnose the mentally ill, and prescribe their antipsychotics, and ensure they take their medications on schedule- didn't you cite the Cato Institute in attempt to argue that churches and charities can do all the things government does better?)

[disneyspy]

That still doesn't justify the excessive hate from the right. Just because you don't come out and say to take a gun and shoot the politician, it is highly inflammatory to talk about taking "second amendment remedies" to deal with "enemies of hummanity."

Also, how did someone who apparently was showing signs of severe mental illness purchase a gun legally? Thanks for the strict interpretation of the 2nd amendment.

Finally, should there be any government funding of care for those with severe mental illness. Clearly when they don't get the help they need they are not only a danger to themselves but to innocent 9 year olds. But I guess taxes to support government programs is government greed. (Maybe churches and charities can diagnose the mentally ill, and prescribe their antipsychotics, and ensure they take their medications on schedule.)

http://lyingdognews.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/crosshairs_500.jpg

[joeyballsack]

For those of you having an issue with the Palin graphic, what do you say about these, used by the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee:

http://www.verumserum.com/media/2010/03/DCCC-target-map.jpghttp://www.verumserum.com/media/2010/03/DCCC-map-legend.jpg

http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/7560/targets.jpg

How about this ad featuring crosshairs over a Republican candidate dating back to
2005 ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epdJWNA65oY

[disneyspy]

For those of you having an issue with the Palin graphic, what do you say about these, used by the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee:

http://www.verumserum.com/media/2010/03/DCCC-target-map.jpghttp://www.verumserum.com/media/2010/03/DCCC-map-legend.jpg

http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/7560/targets.jpg

How about this ad featuring crosshairs over a Republican candidate dating back to
2005 ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epdJWNA65oY

weak sauce holmes,i dont see a bunch of boke ass white democrats marching around chanting kill all who vote for reform like you tea baggers

[hanso]

That still doesn't justify the excessive hate from the right. Just because you don't come out and say to take a gun and shoot the politician, it is highly inflammatory to talk about taking "second amendment remedies" to deal with "enemies of hummanity."

Also, how did someone who apparently was showing signs of severe mental illness purchase a gun legally? Thanks for the strict interpretation of the 2nd amendment.

Finally, should there be any government funding of care for those with severe mental illness. Clearly when they don't get the help they need they are not only a danger to themselves but to innocent 9 year olds. But I guess taxes to support government programs, like child protective services or support for the mentally ill) is government greed. (Maybe churches and charities can diagnose the mentally ill, and prescribe their antipsychotics, and ensure they take their medications on schedule- didn't you cite the Cato Institute in attempt to argue that churches and charities can do all the things government does better?)

It seems that Republican Rep. Trent Franks (AZ) is from that background. And could have used some meds by playing that video.

The foxes are running the hen house.

[joeyballsack]

weak sauce holmes,i dont see a bunch of boke ass white democrats marching around chanting kill all who vote for reform like you tea baggers

I am not a tea bagger and I voted for Obama.

I just find if disturbing that some of you take a meaningless graphic and equate it to a hit order to make a political point. It all kind of reminds me of blaming video games for the Columbine shootings.

[disneyspy]

I am not a tea bagger and I voted for Obama.

I just find if disturbing that some of you take a meaningless graphic and equate it to a hit order to make a political point. It all kind of reminds me of blaming video games for the Columbine shootings.

clearly you have no idea how manipulated the teabaggers are,especially the east coast republican money that has been spent here in michigan to rile up the rubes,you may want to come down from your lofty perch

[Crispy123]

For those of you having an issue with the Palin graphic, what do you say about these, used by the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee:

How about this ad featuring crosshairs over a Republican candidate dating back to
2005 ?

For the graphic, if a Repub had been hit with a dart at a townhall meeting then someone from the Dems would have to answer to THAT.

As far as the video, Im guessing your talking about when the ad says the FBI focused on Hayworth's corruption. You might want to get down to the range because it is a HUGE stretch to call those "crosshairs".

I didn't make the ad, but it would be much more easy for me to beleive that the 2 second graphic was the view from a microscope "focusing" in on Hayworth. There is no shooting, firing, or reference to violence at anytime. Just the act of focusing on corruption. It is a pathetic attempt to compare that to Palins graphic.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Let's look for a second at Trent Franks, a Republican representative from Arizona. He's been a Rep since 2003.

This is what he said today on Meet The Press: (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40988386/ns/politics/)



Pay attention to that bolded part as you watch this video of Trent Franks from September 26, 2009.

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/9HpcfU2bh1g?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/9HpcfU2bh1g?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

Here's the relevant quote from the video:



Was anything made of this today on Meet The Press? Of course not.

Again those without sin.

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/zkYmS5ylCrk?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/zkYmS5ylCrk?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>



Let me guess noone knows who Olbermann is

[WRESTLINGFAN]

That still doesn't justify the excessive hate from the right. Just because you don't come out and say to take a gun and shoot the politician, it is highly inflammatory to talk about taking "second amendment remedies" to deal with "enemies of hummanity."

Also, how did someone who apparently was showing signs of severe mental illness purchase a gun legally? Thanks for the strict interpretation of the 2nd amendment.

Finally, should there be any government funding of care for those with severe mental illness. Clearly when they don't get the help they need they are not only a danger to themselves but to innocent 9 year olds. But I guess taxes to support government programs, like child protective services or support for the mentally ill) is government greed. (Maybe churches and charities can diagnose the mentally ill, and prescribe their antipsychotics, and ensure they take their medications on schedule- didn't you cite the Cato Institute in attempt to argue that churches and charities can do all the things government does better?)

It isn't just the hate that is coming from the right. It's the left that has its share too. I don't even want to hear who is Frances Fox Piven. THOSE ARE HER WORDS. SHE WANTS VIOLENCE

In a chilling and almost unbelievable editorial again in The Nation (”Mobilizing the Jobless,” January 10/17, 2011 edition), she calls on the jobless to rise up in a violent show of solidarity and force. As before, those calls are dripping with language of class struggle. Language she and her late husband Richard Cloward made popular in the 60s.

“So where are the angry crowds, the demonstrations, sit-ins and unruly mobs?” she writes. “After all, the injustice is apparent. Working people are losing their homes and their pensions while robber-baron CEOs report renewed profits and windfall bonuses. Shouldn’t the unemployed be on the march? Why aren’t they demanding enhanced safety net protections and big initiatives to generate jobs?”


As far as programs for mental health. If the states didnt have to send so many billions to Washington there would be money for things like this but your obsesion with wanting the federal government to manage everything, with their track record of mismanagement and fraud it would go down a rathole, more bureaucrats , more payroll and more waste

[Crispy123]

It isn't just the hate that is coming from the right. It's the left that has its share too. I don't even want to hear who is Frances Fox Piven. THOSE ARE HER WORDS. SHE WANTS VIOLENCE

In a chilling and almost unbelievable editorial again in The Nation (”Mobilizing the Jobless,” January 10/17, 2011 edition), she calls on the jobless to rise up in a violent show of solidarity and force. As before, those calls are dripping with language of class struggle. Language she and her late husband Richard Cloward made popular in the 60s.

“So where are the angry crowds, the demonstrations, sit-ins and unruly mobs?” she writes. “After all, the injustice is apparent. Working people are losing their homes and their pensions while robber-baron CEOs report renewed profits and windfall bonuses. Shouldn’t the unemployed be on the march? Why aren’t they demanding enhanced safety net protections and big initiatives to generate jobs?”

As far as programs for mental health. If the states didnt have to send so many billions to Washington there would be money for things like this but your obsesion with wanting the federal government to manage everything, with their track record of mismanagement and fraud it would go down a rathole, more bureaucrats , more payroll and more waste

I don't know who this person is or read the quote but just asking where they are isn't exactly a call for violence.

And this person to my knowledge hasn't been glorified and plastered all over the news by the leaders of the Democratic party.

[underdog]

It isn't just the hate that is coming from the right. It's the left that has its share too. I don't even want to hear who is Frances Fox Piven. THOSE ARE HER WORDS. SHE WANTS VIOLENCE

In a chilling and almost unbelievable editorial again in The Nation (”Mobilizing the Jobless,” January 10/17, 2011 edition), she calls on the jobless to rise up in a violent show of solidarity and force. As before, those calls are dripping with language of class struggle. Language she and her late husband Richard Cloward made popular in the 60s.

“So where are the angry crowds, the demonstrations, sit-ins and unruly mobs?” she writes. “After all, the injustice is apparent. Working people are losing their homes and their pensions while robber-baron CEOs report renewed profits and windfall bonuses. Shouldn’t the unemployed be on the march? Why aren’t they demanding enhanced safety net protections and big initiatives to generate jobs?”


As far as programs for mental health. If the states didnt have to send so many billions to Washington there would be money for things like this but your obsesion with wanting the federal government to manage everything, with their track record of mismanagement and fraud it would go down a rathole, more bureaucrats , more payroll and more waste

Your efforts to provide examples on the left are terrible.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Because those on the left are peaceful people


http://www.history.ucsb.edu/faculty/marcuse/classes/33d/projects/media/BushHitlerShitAsshole.jpg


http://www.reuters.com/resources/r/?m=02&d=20081027&t=2&i=6547344&w=&fh=&fw=&ll=460&pl=300&r=2008-10-27T195741Z_01_BTRE49Q1JGB00_RTROPTP_0_USA-POLITICS-PALIN-EFFIGY


http://img182.imageshack.us/i/img2416.jpg/sr=1


http://zombietime.com/global_day_of_action_march_18_2006/IMG_5723.JPG


http://media.photobucket.com/image/anti%20war%20march%20bush%20hitler/UCLABruinKid/Rally-BushHitler.jpg


Yes we get it, Progressives spell better.

[Zorro]

For those of you having an issue with the Palin graphic, what do you say about these, used by the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee:

http://www.verumserum.com/media/2010/03/DCCC-target-map.jpghttp://www.verumserum.com/media/2010/03/DCCC-map-legend.jpg

http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/7560/targets.jpg

How about this ad featuring crosshairs over a Republican candidate dating back to
2005 ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epdJWNA65oY



I'd be terrified if we lived in the 1500's and assassins were archers

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Your efforts to provide examples on the left are terrible.

I guess you think Frances Fox Piven is Jeremy Pivens mother

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Because those on the left are peaceful people


http://www.history.ucsb.edu/faculty/marcuse/classes/33d/projects/media/BushHitlerShitAsshole.jpg


http://www.reuters.com/resources/r/?m=02&d=20081027&t=2&i=6547344&w=&fh=&fw=&ll=460&pl=300&r=2008-10-27T195741Z_01_BTRE49Q1JGB00_RTROPTP_0_USA-POLITICS-PALIN-EFFIGY


http://img182.imageshack.us/i/img2416.jpg/sr=1


http://zombietime.com/global_day_of_action_march_18_2006/IMG_5723.JPG


http://media.photobucket.com/image/anti%20war%20march%20bush%20hitler/UCLABruinKid/Rally-BushHitler.jpg


Yes we get it, Progressives spell better.


HORRIBLE EXAMPLES UNDERRDOG????

[spoon]

They've been working on the DSM V for a while now. Last I heard, it may come out in 2 years.

Yah, last I heard the same, five years ago. Thanks for the update though as I've been out of that field for a while now.

[spoon]

I'm not going to get into this with you. If you feel that this is the right thing to do. While millions are being spent on things like studies of why squirrels bite each others nuts off. Fine, lean that way, vote that way.

OK you got me, why do they do that? :innocent:

[disneyspy]

OK you got me, why do they do that? :innocent:

cuz they're nuts!!

[Crispy123]

I'm not going to get into this with you. If you feel that this is the right thing to do. While millions are being spent on things like studies of why squirrels bite each others nuts off. Fine, lean that way, vote that way.

OK you got me, why do they do that? :innocent:

They store them for winter, duh.

[spoon]

More sadness. (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=6004887)

Holy shit that hits home and is AWFUL. My niece just got elected to student gov in PA at 9 (she turned 10 over the holidays) and have done some similar things with her when I see here and or she comes out to the NYC area.

So tough to read on it's own, but tying it into that and I get one hell of a disgusting feeling all over. God love the little kid and family. :glurps:

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I dont believe that there wiill be martial law like the Alex Jones followers think, however I hope people dont start overreacting when politicians, pundits and bloggers say figuaritive things like "They need to beat/defeat their opponent or that their opponents need to be held accountable for their votes vote them out or something like that. This type of hysteria goes too far.


We had tens of millions of people voice their anger in November. What happened in AZ was tragic but it's not how sane people think. Using this tragedy to try to pick apart words is counter productive

[HBox]

Yah, last I heard the same, five years ago. Thanks for the update though as I've been out of that field for a while now.

Wired just did a really interesting piece on the new DSM. There's a lot of controversy and fighting behind the scenes at the APA about writing the thing.

[spoon]

no one died, but Allee Bautsch (jindal's head fund-raiser, i believe) and her boyfriend were attacked last april for political reasons (allegedly it was for wearing palin pins), but there is no mention of her name when i searched cnn and msnbc's sites. her leg was broken and the guy's jaw and nose were broken. if this was done by a right-wing nutjob, it would be a bigger story (or a story at all). just saying. (i also never heard of her till i was doing some research today to show there are kooks on both sides and media on both sides are biased.)

It wasn't a story because it wasn't politically motivated. (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/04/16/new-orleans-cops-search-assailants-attacked-jindals-campaign-aide/)

But the Obama cheeked girl in Pittsburgh was! So we always have those kooks out there as well.

[Dudeman]

HORRIBLE EXAMPLES UNDERRDOG????

Once again, there is a big difference between pictures of individual citizens or someone's house and the following:

-Republican congresswoman (Bachmann- "I want people in Minnesota armed and dangerous on this issue of the energy tax, because we need to fight back")

-Republican nominee for US Senate (Angle- "if this Congress keeps going the way it is, people are really looking toward those Second Amendment remedies and saying my goodness what can we do to turn this country around? I'll tell you the first thing we need to do is take Harry Reid out.")

-Republican nominee for VP (Palin- "Don’t retreat. Instead - reload!")

[underdog]

HORRIBLE EXAMPLES UNDERRDOG????

YES.

This shit isn't from sitting fucking congressmen.

[HBox]

But the Obama cheeked girl in Pittsburgh was! So we always have those kooks out there as well.

That one was fake. The girl did it to herself.

[underdog]

I dont believe that there wiill be martial law like the Alex Jones followers think, however I hope people dont start overreacting when politicians, pundits and bloggers say figuaritive things like "They need to beat/defeat their opponent or that their opponents need to be held accountable for their votes vote them out or something like that. This type of hysteria goes too far.


We had tens of millions of people voice their anger in November. What happened in AZ was tragic but it's not how sane people think. Using this tragedy to try to pick apart words is counter productive

Who the fuck are you talking to? No one here brings up Alex Jones except you. Stop acting like he's mainstream because you listen to him.

[underdog]

Uhh... they weren't crosshairs. Yeah, that's the ticket! (http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/01/palin-aide-crosshairs-on-target-list-not-actually-gun-sights.php?ref=fpi)

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Once again, there is a big difference between pictures of individual citizens or someone's house and the following:

-Republican congresswoman (Bachmann- "I want people in Minnesota armed and dangerous on this issue of the energy tax, because we need to fight back")

-Republican nominee for US Senate (Angle- "if this Congress keeps going the way it is, people are really looking toward those Second Amendment remedies and saying my goodness what can we do to turn this country around? I'll tell you the first thing we need to do is take Harry Reid out.")

-Republican nominee for VP (Palin- "Don’t retreat. Instead - reload!")

Does it matter who says it> I dont give a fuck if its a politician pundit, or some hack that goes on MSNBC



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No sane person says stuff like this in jest

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Who the fuck are you talking to? No one here brings up Alex Jones except you. Stop acting like he's mainstream because you listen to him.

I dont listen to him and I think hes a loon. Quit trying to nit pick and say who is relevant or who isn't

[WRESTLINGFAN]

YES.

This shit isn't from sitting fucking congressmen.


It doesn't matter if its from a politician or a blogger its still psychotalk either way!!!!!!

[underdog]

I dont listen to him and I think hes a loon. Quit trying to nit pick and say who is relevant or who isn't

THERE IS NO ONE ON THE LEFT LIKE GLENN BECK. Stop trying to find the person. Anyone on the left as crazy and inciting as Beck doesn't have anywhere near the audience he does. Your example of some crazy person having someone hanging at their house is not the same fucking thing.

And if you don't listen to Alex Jones, why do you know so much? I'm on the left and can say I have literally never heard Alex Jones's words once in my life.

[underdog]

It doesn't matter if its from a politician or a blogger its still psychotalk either way!!!!!!

Yes, but you don't see that there's a fucking difference in the messenger?

[Dudeman]

It doesn't matter if its from a politician or a blogger its still psychotalk either way!!!!!!

of course there is a difference

[spoon]

Did you notice this part:



The crazy extreme fringe is always going to be the crazy extreme fringe. But it rarely, if ever, came from sitting Congressmen and prominent media figures, and never to the degree of the last year and a half. The only thing that this lazy equivocation does is let people get away with irresponsible rhetoric without consequences. Just like Epo said before, in the future this shit has to stop from everyone. Let us all just make sure that we hold people accountable for what they say.

While I agree with both of you (Boxy & Epo), how you "hold people accountable for what they say"? It's a very tricky topic to say the least.

[HBox]

While I agree with both of you (Boxy & Epo), how you "hold people accountable for what they say"? It's a very tricky topic to say the least.

Nothing that would impinge on their right to free speech but it would be nice if 1. The media did a better job of calling them out on it rather than falling back on this he said, she said, every side does it bullshit and 2. The voters didn't react positively to that shit.

It would be best if politicians themselves acted more responsibly.

[Crispy123]

While I agree with both of you (Boxy & Epo), how you "hold people accountable for what they say"? It's a very tricky topic to say the least.

Yeah they kept their language intentionally vague and "metaphoric". Ultimatley it is a sick individual that is moved to that kind of violence by someone they see on TV.

[StanUpshaw]

Ignoring for a moment the fucking ludicrous notion that political rhetoric containing war metaphor is somehow new or one-sided...are you people really suggesting that there is some sort of subliminal programming happening due to a crosshair graphic?

[HBox]

Ignoring for a moment the fucking ludicrous notion that political rhetoric containing war metaphor is somehow new or one-sided...are you people really suggesting that there is some sort of subliminal programming happening due to a crosshair graphic?

No, but if you've been paying any attention the last year and a half you know there is a shitload more than that mostly innocuous little thing you mentioned. It's not any one of those things, it's all of them. You add all of that together with a crazy guy who takes it all a bit too seriously and it's not a stretch to see something bad happen. This incident shows how easy it can be to get within shooting range of a representative.

[Dudeman]

Does it matter who says it> I dont give a fuck if its a politician pundit, or some hack that goes on MSNBC



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No sane person says stuff like this in jest

Who the hell is Ted Rall?

We're talking about a republican nominee for Vice President of the US, a US congresswoman, and a republican nominee for US Senate.

Make your comparisons roughly analogous.

[HBox]

Who the hell is Ted Rall?

We're talking about a republican nominee for Vice President of the US, a US congresswoman, and a republican nominee for US Senate.

Make your comparisons roughly analogous.

Some guy who lives down the street who voted for Obama likes to kick his dog.

SEE! BOTH SIDES DO IT.

[Dudeman]

Some guy who lives down the street who voted for Obama likes to kick his dog.

SEE! BOTH SIDES DO IT.

yeah, wf is furiously searching every quote from every democratic official in the past 70 years.

[StanUpshaw]

Wow. Usually in these reactionary "moral panic" situations, the claim is that "[fill in the blank] is corrupting our children!"

Sarah Palin must be the devil herself is she's able to corrupt our adults.

[Snacks]

Wow. Usually in these reactionary "moral panic" situations, the claim is that "[fill in the blank] is corrupting our children!"

Sarah Palin must be the devil herself is she's able to corrupt our adults.

No such thing as the devil but she is an evil bitch and the people who follow her are dumb cock suckers with guns!

[disneyspy]

No such thing as the devil but she is an evil bitch and the people who follow her are dumb cock suckers with guns!

HAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAAAHAHA!!!!

[Ritalin]

Who the fuck are you talking to? No one here brings up Alex Jones except you. Stop acting like he's mainstream because you listen to him.

I have no idea who Alex Jones is.

[Dudeman]

How did this guy, who apparently everyone who had contact with him- such as the teachers and students at his school- felt was severely mentally disturbed, not get seen by mental health services? And how did he legally buy a gun?

Heaven forbid we don't strictly interpret the 2nd amendment and put more barriers in place for people buying guns.

Heaven forbid we raise taxes to provide better mental health services.

[underdog]

How did this guy, who apparently everyone who had contact with him- such as the teachers and students at his school- felt was severely mentally disturbed, not get seen by mental health services? And how did he legally buy a gun?

Heaven forbid we don't strictly interpret the 2nd amendment and put more barriers in place for people buying guns.

Heaven forbid we raise taxes to provide better mental health services.

Did he legally own his gun?

[Dudeman]

Did he legally own his gun?

yes (you could figure that out by a 2 second internet search...). he was rejected from joining the army but allowed to legally buy a gun.

[Dudeman]

yes (you could figure that out by a 2 second internet search...). he was rejected from joining the army but allowed to legally buy a gun.

and apparently the type of gun he was using was banned by a Clinton-era ban, but that was allowed to expire in 2004.

[spoon]

HORRIBLE EXAMPLES UNDERRDOG????

I love when people quote themselves all the time.

[spoon]

That one was fake. The girl did it to herself.

Of course, that was my point for WF to see!

[underdog]

yes (you could figure that out by a 2 second internet search...). he was rejected from joining the army but allowed to legally buy a gun.

It was easier to ask you to do the work for me. Thanks.

[keithy_19]

yes (you could figure that out by a 2 second internet search...). he was rejected from joining the army but allowed to legally buy a gun.

Because he failed a drug test, right?

[spoon]

yes (you could figure that out by a 2 second internet search...). he was rejected from joining the army but allowed to legally buy a gun.

To get rejected by the Army right now is not an easy thing either. Shows how off this guy must be.

[StanUpshaw]

To get rejected by the Army right now is not an easy thing either. Shows how off this guy must be.

And not the shooting spree?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

THERE IS NO ONE ON THE LEFT LIKE GLENN BECK. Stop trying to find the person. Anyone on the left as crazy and inciting as Beck doesn't have anywhere near the audience he does. Your example of some crazy person having someone hanging at their house is not the same fucking thing.

And if you don't listen to Alex Jones, why do you know so much? I'm on the left and can say I have literally never heard Alex Jones's words once in my life.

conservative talk radio has a bigger audience, I agree but all it takes is one nutjob who listens to the lunacy of Mike Malloy or read what Piven writes in the nation magazine. That specific magazine is popular with progressives.

Alex Jones is the main guy behind the 9/11 inside job movement. Chris Matthews had a segment on him during one of his documentaries The Rise of the new Right.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Who the hell is Ted Rall?

We're talking about a republican nominee for Vice President of the US, a US congresswoman, and a republican nominee for US Senate.

Make your comparisons roughly analogous.

Again. All it takes is one crazy fuck to listen to any wacko on the left. Doesnt matter how big the audience is

[Dude!]

She describes him as "quite liberal" and as a "political radical."

http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2011/01/jared_loughner_alleged_shooter.php

left-wing pothead
shoots a dem
but it's all glenn beck's fault

[spoon]

And not the shooting spree?

Yes Stan, not the shooting spree.

[HBox]

A Senior Republican Senator speaking to Politico anonymously: (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0111/47294.html#ixzz1AZuUEqgt)

“There is a need for some reflection here - what is too far now?” said the senator. “What was too far when Oklahoma City happened is accepted now. There’s been a desensitizing. These town halls and cable TV and talk radio, everybody’s trying to outdo each other.”

The vast majority of tea party activists, this senator said, ought not be impugned.

“They’re talking about things most mainstream Americans are talking about, like spending and debt,” the Republican said, before adding that politicians of all stripes need to emphasize in the coming days that “tone matters.”

“And the Republican Party in particular needs to reinforce that,” the senator said.

That he said this anonymously means he is a complete chickenshit. But it's also telling about the state of the conservative movement right now.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

But the Obama cheeked girl in Pittsburgh was! So we always have those kooks out there as well.




http://storage.people.com/jpgs/19880704/19880704-750-0.jpg

[Snoogans]

Again. All it takes is one crazy fuck to listen to any wacko on the left. Doesnt matter how big the audience is

NO ONE IS SAYIN THAT NO ONE CAN HEAR THAT SHIT AND GO CRAZY. THEY ARE TELLIN YOU THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN SOME ASSHOLE ON RADIO PAID TO CAUSE A STIR AND SOMEONE WHO IS AN ELECTED OFFICIAL SAYING SOMETHING. DO YOU NOT SEE THE DIFFERENCE?

If you were in school and other students started to say this shit, fine, thats part of school. If TEACHERS start to say it to the students, the students tend to believe it more, cause thats the power person, thats the person they look up to. THATS WHY ITS SUCH A BIG DEAL YOU DUMB BLIND FAGGOT.

Stop arguing with people just to keep arguing. Either admit you have no idea or admit you are deflecting to other things, but stop acting so stupid. Its people like you and your dumb arrogance and inability to actually listen to points and have reasonable discussions and accept you might be wrong that make the rest of the world think the US is nothing but selfish assholes who DONT LISTEN TO ANYONE

[HBox]

http://storage.people.com/jpgs/19880704/19880704-750-0.jpg

yeah, wf is furiously searching every quote from every democratic official in the past 70 years.

Looks like you were right!!

[spoon]

http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2011/01/jared_loughner_alleged_shooter.php

left-wing pothead
shoots a dem
but it's all glenn beck's fault

Wow thanks for the twitter news update from a random girl they think went to school with him.

And why is it his school pic from only a few years back looks like some class pic in the 70's?

[Snoogans]

http://storage.people.com/jpgs/19880704/19880704-750-0.jpg

What the fuck does this have to do with ANYTHING?

[Dudeman]

What the fuck does this have to do with ANYTHING?

hey, that was my question.

[underdog]

What the fuck does this have to do with ANYTHING?

This could be the response to any of his posts.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

NO ONE IS SAYIN THAT NO ONE CAN HEAR THAT SHIT AND GO CRAZY. THEY ARE TELLIN YOU THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN SOME ASSHOLE ON RADIO PAID TO CAUSE A STIR AND SOMEONE WHO IS AN ELECTED OFFICIAL SAYING SOMETHING. DO YOU NOT SEE THE DIFFERENCE?

If you were in school and other students started to say this shit, fine, thats part of school. If TEACHERS start to say it to the students, the students tend to believe it more, cause thats the power person, thats the person they look up to. THATS WHY ITS SUCH A BIG DEAL YOU DUMB BLIND FAGGOT.

Stop arguing with people just to keep arguing. Either admit you have no idea or admit you are deflecting to other things, but stop acting so stupid. Its people like you and your dumb arrogance and inability to actually listen to points and have reasonable discussions and accept you might be wrong that make the rest of the world think the US is nothing but selfish assholes who DONT LISTEN TO ANYONE



If students start to talk about taking over the school and shooting everything up in sight you would just dismiss it as locker room shenanigans?

[underdog]

conservative talk radio has a bigger audience, I agree but all it takes is one nutjob who listens to the lunacy of Mike Malloy or read what Piven writes in the nation magazine. That specific magazine is popular with progressives.

Alex Jones is the main guy behind the 9/11 inside job movement. Chris Matthews had a segment on him during one of his documentaries The Rise of the new Right.

You're like jlehane3 without his charisma.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

What the fuck does this have to do with ANYTHING?

Remember the post about the woman faking her own assault saying it was Obama supporters?



Ask Steven Pagones about the Tawan Brawley lies

[Snoogans]

If students start to talk about taking over the school and shooting everything up in sight you would just dismiss it as locker room shenanigans?

no dick, you are clearly missing the point. The point is people in a position of power, elected officials, said this shit and put it into peoples heads. When it comes from a position of authority, like a rep or a teacher, that has more weight on the audience then when it comes from a peer like another student or some guy who calls a radio show or gives his opinion in a blog. How can you not tell the fuckin difference?

[underdog]

If students start to talk about taking over the school and shooting everything up in sight you would just dismiss it as locker room shenanigans?

ALEX JONES ISN'T TAKING OVER THE LEFT.

God fucking damnit. NO ONE KNOWS WHO ALEX JONES IS. NO ONE IS LISTENING TO HIM.

THE GUY HANGING A DUMMY OF A PERSON OUTSIDE THEIR HOUSE ISN'T TAKING OVER THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

You're like jlehane3 without his charisma.

Progressives claim that they are the only ones who are informed and know who's who in the media. If someone didnt know who Frank Rich or Paul Krugman was they would have a field day on them

[Snoogans]

Remember the post about the woman faking her own assault saying it was Obama supporters?



Ask Steven Pagones about the Tawan Brawley lies

yea but what does that have anything to do with this conversation? that was how many years ago? And if I remember right ( i might not cause I dont give a shit cause it doesnt matter) that was like Reverend Al and shit. That wasnt ELECTED OFFICIALS. That was some guy who calls himself a reverend and does shit that no one, either side, agrees with. That has NO BEARING on this argument. AT ALL

[WRESTLINGFAN]

ALEX JONES ISN'T TAKING OVER THE LEFT.

God fucking damnit. NO ONE KNOWS WHO ALEX JONES IS. NO ONE IS LISTENING TO HIM.

THE GUY HANGING A DUMMY OF A PERSON OUTSIDE THEIR HOUSE ISN'T TAKING OVER THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY.

THE MESSAGE IS JUST AS IMPORTANT AS THE FUCKING MESSENGER!!!!!!

[Snoogans]

Progressives claim that they are the only ones who are informed and know who's who in the media. If someone didnt know who Frank Rich or Paul Krugman was they would have a field day on them

WHO GIVES A FUCK? THIS IS ABOUT ELECTED OFFICIALS DOING IT. NOT SOME FRINGE FUCK NO ONE EVEN CARES ABOUT.

I really really hate you

[keithy_19]

NO ONE IS SAYIN THAT NO ONE CAN HEAR THAT SHIT AND GO CRAZY. THEY ARE TELLIN YOU THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN SOME ASSHOLE ON RADIO PAID TO CAUSE A STIR AND SOMEONE WHO IS AN ELECTED OFFICIAL SAYING SOMETHING. DO YOU NOT SEE THE DIFFERENCE?

If you were in school and other students started to say this shit, fine, thats part of school. If TEACHERS start to say it to the students, the students tend to believe it more, cause thats the power person, thats the person they look up to. THATS WHY ITS SUCH A BIG DEAL YOU DUMB BLIND FAGGOT.

Stop arguing with people just to keep arguing. Either admit you have no idea or admit you are deflecting to other things, but stop acting so stupid. Its people like you and your dumb arrogance and inability to actually listen to points and have reasonable discussions and accept you might be wrong that make the rest of the world think the US is nothing but selfish assholes who DONT LISTEN TO ANYONE

I know this is directed at WF, but is it so hard for people to look at context of a statement and realize that it's not a call for violence? I see the Palin crosshairs ad, and I not once think that it was intended to get people to try to kill anyone. Sure, someone who is psychotic may think that, but that doesn't mean that the person who says it should have to stifle.

Just my opinion though.

[underdog]

Progressives claim that they are the only ones who are informed and know who's who in the media. If someone didnt know who Frank Rich or Paul Krugman was they would have a field day on them

I have no fucking idea who either of those people are.

Just because you don't have a job and all you do is watch cable news and listen to talk radio doesn't mean the rest of us are the same.

[StanUpshaw]

I can't wait until this thread ends up on CNN. Someone on here is going to crack, that much is clear, but I'm not sure who.

Right now I'm thinking the odds look like this:

2:1 WRESTLINGFAN
3:1 Tenbatsuzen
5:1 Dudeman
10:1 Crispy
10:1 HBox
25:1 Disneyspy
70:1 Snoogans
100:1 Dude!
200:1 epo

[WRESTLINGFAN]

yea but what does that have anything to do with this conversation? that was how many years ago? And if I remember right ( i might not cause I dont give a shit cause it doesnt matter) that was like Reverend Al and shit. That wasnt ELECTED OFFICIALS. That was some guy who calls himself a reverend and does shit that no one, either side, agrees with. That has NO BEARING on this argument. AT ALL

Pagones was an elected official and it ruined him. The Duke LaCrossse players were torn a new one when that was all made up and it was the DA Mike Nifong who wanted to make himself famous and would have done anything to rake them thru the coals.

[Snoogans]

THE MESSAGE IS JUST AS IMPORTANT AS THE FUCKING MESSENGER!!!!!!

no, it isnt. and you know it isnt, so now you are just sayin shit to fight. There is no way you can possibly believe that the source of something doesnt make it more or less important.

So if Sarah Palin or whoever it is you most admire in politics told you something, you wouldnt be more likely to put more faith and belief in that than if some convicted rapist told you something?

You are just a fuckin fraud.

[underdog]

THE MESSAGE IS JUST AS IMPORTANT AS THE FUCKING MESSENGER!!!!!!

NO, IT'S NOT.

People say crazy shit all the time all over the world. When people IN FUCKING POWER pass the message, IT CARRIES MORE POWER.

I don't even know why I argue with you.

[spoon]

I can't wait until this thread ends up on CNN. Someone on here is going to crack, that much is clear, but I'm not sure who.

Right now I'm thinking the odds look like this:

2:1 WRESTLINGFAN
3:1 Tenbatsuzen
5:1 Dudeman
10:1 Crispy
10:1 HBox
25:1 Disneyspy
70:1 Snoogans
100:1 Dude!
200:1 epo

:lol::lol::lol:

I'd flip a few around bc the odds are off, but wtf man? I don't get ranked! :furious:

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I have no fucking idea who either of those people are.

Just because I don't have a job and all I do is post on RF NET and drink shitty canadian beer doesn't mean everyone is the same.

Fixed

[Snoogans]

I know this is directed at WF, but is it so hard for people to look at context of a statement and realize that it's not a call for violence? I see the Palin crosshairs ad, and I not once think that it was intended to get people to try to kill anyone. Sure, someone who is psychotic may think that, but that doesn't mean that the person who says it should have to stifle.

Just my opinion though.

keithy, dont be a moron. Im pretty sure most people dont really think Palin wanted someone to shoot this lady in the fuckin head. The whole point is, when you feed this shit to people, crazy people DO take it that way. So if you irresponsibly feed the shit, or feed it from positions that would tend to have more credibility and more following, people ARE going to take it that way. Thats why you cant do shit like that.

Its not nearly the same as if some jerkoff who worked in a shoe store was telling people to do the same thing. then its just some crazy fuck. this is supposed to be a reliable person who has your best interests in mind. Thats why people take it too seriously

[underdog]

I can't wait until this thread ends up on CNN. Someone on here is going to crack, that much is clear, but I'm not sure who.

Right now I'm thinking the odds look like this:

2:1 WRESTLINGFAN
3:1 Tenbatsuzen
5:1 Dudeman
10:1 Crispy
10:1 HBox
25:1 Disneyspy
70:1 Snoogans
100:1 Dude!
200:1 epo

It will be wrestlingfan. He's going to see some tan, irish guy run a red light and kill him because he thinks it's an illegal breaking the law.

[spoon]

Pagones was an elected official and it ruined him. The Duke LaCrossse players were torn a new one when that was all made up and it was the DA Mike Nifong who wanted to make himself famous and would have done anything to rake them thru the coals.

Why are all your cases now linked to racial lines...once again?

[underdog]

Fixed

I'm drinking fine caribbean rum, thank you very much.

[Snoogans]

Pagones was an elected official and it ruined him. The Duke LaCrossse players were torn a new one when that was all made up and it was the DA Mike Nifong who wanted to make himself famous and would have done anything to rake them thru the coals.

ok again, not an elected official, and not anything to do with what we are talkin about. How does someone wanting to get famous off being a prosecutor in a rape case have ANYTHING to do with this?

[underdog]

I'm drinking fine caribbean rum, thank you very much.

And damnit, I have a job! It's the only reason I'm in this awful fucking country.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

It will be wrestlingfan. He's going to see some tan, irish guy run a red light and kill him because he thinks it's an illegal breaking the law.

Youre going to snap and crack some french canadian over the head with a hockey stick for not speaking English

[WRESTLINGFAN]

And damnit, I have a job! It's the only reason I'm in this awful fucking country.

Its not for the great variety of Canadian artists on the radio?

[keithy_19]

It will be wrestlingfan. He's going to see some tan, irish guy run a red light and kill him because he thinks it's an illegal breaking the law.

This is just absurd. There's no such thing as a Tan irish guy.

[keithy_19]

Its not for the great variety of Canadian artists on the radio?

One of the best bands out there today is Canadian (The Constantines).

[spoon]

ok again, not an elected official, and not anything to do with what we are talkin about. How does someone wanting to get famous off being a prosecutor in a rape case have ANYTHING to do with this?

Bc anyone who is on the side of immigrants or dark skinned people (right or wrong) have to be liberals and he incorrectly thinks it proves his point.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Why are all your cases now linked to racial lines...once again?

Does it matter what color the people are?

[HBox]

I know this is directed at WF, but is it so hard for people to look at context of a statement and realize that it's not a call for violence? I see the Palin crosshairs ad, and I not once think that it was intended to get people to try to kill anyone. Sure, someone who is psychotic may think that, but that doesn't mean that the person who says it should have to stifle.

Just my opinion though.

There's been enough crazy shit happening to that there is a significant amount of people are at the very least getting worked up way too much. There were already 2 incidents involving Giffords recently. Her office was vandalized after her vote for health care reform and at the last one of these Meet your congresswoman things a tea party protester dropped a concealed weapon.

The Palin crosshair thing is one of many things, and pales in comparison to some of the words coming out of her and other's mouths.

When someone is constantly saying that the President and his party are destroying the nation does that lead anywhere good? Is there any justification for saying that? Is it really that much of a stretch to think it could lead to violence when people hear that kind of talk over and over for a long period of time?

[Snoogans]

Does it matter hwat color the people are?

to you it does immigrant boy

[underdog]

Youre going to snap and crack some french canadian over the head with a hockey stick for not speaking English

Everyone speaks English here. It's Toronto, not Quebec.

Its not for the great variety of Canadian artists on the radio?

Ugh. Thank fucking god for sirius. Regular radio here is fucking horrendous.

[keithy_19]

keithy, dont be a moron. Im pretty sure most people dont really think Palin wanted someone to shoot this lady in the fuckin head. The whole point is, when you feed this shit to people, crazy people DO take it that way. So if you irresponsibly feed the shit, or feed it from positions that would tend to have more credibility and more following, people ARE going to take it that way. Thats why you cant do shit like that.

Its not nearly the same as if some jerkoff who worked in a shoe store was telling people to do the same thing. then its just some crazy fuck. this is supposed to be a reliable person who has your best interests in mind. Thats why people take it too seriously

First off, I'll be a moron as I please.

Secondly, I think Palin needs to use much much better judgement when saying things. I agree with that. She seems to not really be an elected figure with the way she represents herself. Granted, some people eat her style up.

I understand your point about the difference between someone elcted to an office an a nobody spouting rhetoric. It could be just me, but I don't really think of politicians as reliable. Not inherently anyway.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Everyone speaks English here. It's Toronto, not Quebec.



Ugh. Thank fucking god for sirius. Regular radio here is fucking horrendous.

May all your channels be the verge and laugh attack and all those Canadian news channels especially the French speaking ones

[spoon]

There's been enough crazy shit happening to that there is a significant amount of people are at the very least getting worked up way too much. There were already 2 incidents involving Giffords recently. Her office was vandalized after her vote for health care reform and at the last one of these Meet your congresswoman things a tea party protester dropped a concealed weapon.

The Palin crosshair thing is one of many things, and pales in comparison to some of the words coming out of her and other's mouths.

When someone is constantly saying that the President and his party are destroying the nation does that lead anywhere good? Is there any justification for saying that? Is it really that much of a stretch to think it could lead to violence when people hear that kind of talk over and over for a long period of time?

It's amazing how far the repubs/right took things being out of power for the first time in years, and so quickly. Obama wasn't even in office and they were on the attack in suspect and petty ways immediately. Will the parties ever work together again in the country's best interest? I highly doubt it. I understand both parties go on the attack, but the vitriol of late has been much worse than I ever remember, and it's mostly on one side (especially with people in what are supposed to be respected positions).

[Snoogans]

First off, I'll be a moron as I please.

Secondly, I think Palin needs to use much much better judgement when saying things. I agree with that. She seems to not really be an elected figure with the way she represents herself. Granted, some people eat her style up.

I understand your point about the difference between someone elcted to an office an a nobody spouting rhetoric. It could be just me, but I don't really think of politicians as reliable. Not inherently anyway.

but you arent shoot up a function crazy. The point is yes, we understand what they mean. cause we are sane. People who would do this type of thing DONT understand that dont mean really do it, and thats why this is fucked up

[keithy_19]

It's amazing how far the repubs/right took things being out of power for the first time in years, and so quickly. Obama wasn't even in office and they were on the attack in suspect and petty ways immediately. Will the parties ever work together again in the country's best interest? I highly doubt it. I understand both parties go on the attack, but the vitriol of late has been much worse than I ever remember, and it's mostly on one side (especially with people in what are supposed to be respected positions).

Alaska is the stunted step-child of the Union.

[keithy_19]

but you arent shoot up a function crazy. The point is yes, we understand what they mean. cause we are sane. People who would do this type of thing DONT understand that dont mean really do it, and thats why this is fucked up

I understand this. And I do think that people, especially in power and overly public figures, should watch what they say. But where do we draw the line? Should we all watch what we say because someone might take it to the extreme?

I have a feeling we won't agree on this, but it was nice sparring with you.

[HBox]

It's amazing how far the repubs/right took things being out of power for the first time in years, and so quickly. Obama wasn't even in office and they were on the attack in suspect and petty ways immediately. Will the parties ever work together again in the country's best interest? I highly doubt it. I understand both parties go on the attack, but the vitriol of late has been much worse than I ever remember, and it's mostly on one side (especially with people in what are supposed to be respected positions).

It's especially galling when the biggest reason the shit started getting stirred, health care reform, was much, much closer to what Republicans had been proposing just years ago than anything Democrats had been proposing leading into the debate.

They clearly started this talk only to help them win the election. I don't believe one of these people believe this heated rhetoric but that isn't stopping them from saying it. Maybe this will scare them into toning it down because I'm sure they won't do it out of the kindness of their heart.

[StanUpshaw]

<iframe title="YouTube video player" class="youtube-player" type="text/html" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/7gAU550GlLQ" frameborder="0"></iframe>

[hanso]

So the sheriff is comparing Arizona to what was going on in the south 60 years ago? What a fucking cheap comment by someone looking to get some face time. There aren't lynchings of Hispanics or German shepards and hoses on them.There are no segregated drinking fountains It was a crazed lunatic who shot RFK and it is a lunatic who shot Giffords and the other victims yesterday.

The sheriff made comments on hate speech. Didn't say which side they come from mind you. Now the right will make these same kinda comments over what he said. That is how this will pan out.

[hanso]

OK you got me, why do they do that? :innocent:

It's a natural form of genocide. And why you see fewer red squirrels up north. Or the funky looking ones that the studies are being done on in the AZ region.

[hanso]

This is just absurd. There's no such thing as a Tan irish guy.

http://www.10pix.ru/img1/1611/3238003.jpg

[Tenbatsuzen]

I can't wait until this thread ends up on CNN. Someone on here is going to crack, that much is clear, but I'm not sure who.

Right now I'm thinking the odds look like this:

2:1 WRESTLINGFAN
3:1 Tenbatsuzen
5:1 Dudeman
10:1 Crispy
10:1 HBox
25:1 Disneyspy
70:1 Snoogans
100:1 Dude!
200:1 epo

Snoogs is more prone to irrational anger than I am. He'll get a bad steak from shop rite and lose his shit. I'm pissed he's at 70:1.

[keithy_19]

Snoogs is more prone to irrational anger than I am. He'll get a bad steak from shop rite and lose his shit. I'm pissed he's at 70:1.

I'm happy I'm not on the list.

[Tenbatsuzen]

I'm happy I'm not on the list.

You're such a pussy if you picked up an automatic weapon the end result would be Christopher Bizilj.

[keithy_19]

You're such a pussy if you picked up an automatic weapon the end result would be Christopher Bizilj.

I enjoy how children under 16 were admitted free to the gun convention. Bravo society.

And bullshit. I'd shoot the gun and then go home and think about and possibly defecate. Because that's what men do.

[Tenbatsuzen]

I enjoy how children under 16 were admitted free to the gun convention. Bravo society.

And bullshit. I'd shoot the gun and then go home and think about and possibly defecate. Because that's what men do.

Fuck kids under 16 getting into the gun show, what about the dad - a DOCTOR no less - letting his son under the age of 10 handle a MACHINE GUN.

No reason to do that. None. 2nd amendment or not. But he was punished. He has to live with the guilt and the images of seeing his son without the back of his head for the rest of his life.

[Zorro]

And not the shooting spree?

if they knew he were willing to go on a shooting spree they'd signed him right up with an afternoon flight to Kabul.

[keithy_19]

Fuck kids under 16 getting into the gun show, what about the dad - a DOCTOR no less - letting his son under the age of 10 handle a MACHINE GUN.

No reason to do that. None. 2nd amendment or not. But he was punished. He has to live with the guilt and the images of seeing his son without the back of his head for the rest of his life.

I agree with you.

[underdog]

I agree with you.

You're going on the list.

[keithy_19]

You're going on the list.

Son of a bitch. :wallbash:

[Tenbatsuzen]

You're going on the list.

Is that Underdog's Delicious Poutine List?

[hanso]

Those at that age could steal them and not get into much trouble for being underaged.

[hanso]

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Geraldo At Large - FOXNews

[WRESTLINGFAN]

At the time of the Ft Hood shooter I remember the media saying don't jump to conclusions, dont label him a Muslim terrorist etc. However the same people assume it was a teabagger. There were rumors saying Loughner was a vet of the Afghan war.

[Crispy_Mobile]

At the time of the Ft Hood shooter I remember the media saying don't jump to conclusions, dont label him a Muslim terrorist etc.

I don't remember this at all.

I remember people saying this guy WAS Muslim, a shitty soldier (UA a bunch), and linked to radical clerics. Everything I saw was about why the Army didn't spot the Assclown sooner.

Do you have examples of this?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I don't remember this at all.

I remember people saying this guy WAS Muslim, a shitty soldier (UA a bunch), and linked to radical clerics. Everything I saw was about why the Army didn't spot the Assclown sooner.

Do you have examples of this?

After the 1st few days it was in fact he was linked to radical Clerics. I'm talking about when it 1st happened, there were calls for people not to rush to judgement. Even Obama said it

However Olbermann, Krugman are too quick to blame teabaggers and talk radio


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[foodcourtdruide]

After the 1st few days it was in fact he was linked to radical Clerics. I'm talking about when it 1st happened, there were calls for people not to rush to judgement. Even Obama said it

However Olbermann, Krugman are too quick to blame teabaggers and talk radio


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This is not at all what Crispy was asking for. Obama is not a member of the media. Why can't you just admit what happened in Arizona was a sign that the mainstream rightwing press needs to tone their shit down a bit? Disagreeing and arguing is one thing, but violent metaphors and pseudo-calls for revolution in mainstream politics can be dangerous.

[foodcourtdruide]

I can't wait until this thread ends up on CNN. Someone on here is going to crack, that much is clear, but I'm not sure who.

Right now I'm thinking the odds look like this:

2:1 WRESTLINGFAN
3:1 Tenbatsuzen
5:1 Dudeman
10:1 Crispy
10:1 HBox
25:1 Disneyspy
70:1 Snoogans
100:1 Dude!
200:1 epo

I can't believe I couldn't even make it on this list, I started the damn thread.

[angrymissy]

After the 1st few days it was in fact he was linked to radical Clerics. I'm talking about when it 1st happened, there were calls for people not to rush to judgement. Even Obama said it

However Olbermann, Krugman are too quick to blame teabaggers and talk radio


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You should actually watch and listen to what Olbermann said...

[angrymissy]

This is not at all what Crispy was asking for. Obama is not a member of the media. Why can't you just admit what happened in Arizona was a sign that the mainstream rightwing press needs to tone their shit down a bit? Disagreeing and arguing is one thing, but violent metaphors and pseudo-calls for revolution in mainstream politics can be dangerous.

THIS THIS THIS.

All I see from the Right are efforts to shift blame to the left, or defend their own.

How about "yeah, it's getting a little heated and people need to turn it down a notch"

I mean, come on, the fucking gun crosshairs, the veiled hints at revolution (we came unarmed, THIS TIME), fucking references to "2nd amendment remedies" and overthrowing the Government.

No one can even own up to saying this awful shit. Palin deleted her map, then had an aide say they were "prospecting marks", are you fucking serious?

Giffords actually COMMENTED ON THE MAP, saying it was irresponsible and could incite violence, and look what it did.

And then, I see people linking a map Dems put out with archery bullseyes marking STATES they need to reclaim as if it's the same thing... yeah, there is a big difference between crosshairs on specific people, with the words "Don't retreat, reload" and a map with a bullseye on a state saying "We need this state to win!"

[angrymissy]

Maybe a week ago, Jeff was flipping through the channels and stopped on Glenn Beck.

He was solemnly yabbering about how the Govt needs to be stopped, how Obama is ruining our nation, yadda yadda.

Behind him on the chalkboard, read something like. "citizen uprising", "armed revolution". I even asked Jeff to rewind/pause so I could confirm that was what I was seeing. I couldn't believe I was seeing it. For months, every time I see this shit, and it happens a lot, with all these thinly veiled threats regarding guns and 2nd amendment rights, I've been thinking "this is going to rile up the lunatics, they are going to think they're saving their country".

These people won't even OWN UP to saying this shit. It needs to be dialed down, way down.

A good quote I read on a site today ""The question is not 'did Sarah Palin's violent rhetoric cause this shooting?' The question is 'does inciting violence factor in a multi-factorial process?'""

[Tenbatsuzen]

But Missy, the left wing media was just as bad when Bush was in office. The problem is, Loughner isn't talking so people are immediately jumping to conclusions. ESPECIALLY Olbermann. But the more you look at Loughner, and the facts of the case, it's looking more and more like he wasn't dialed up by news media... he was just a nut who had targeted Giffords all the way back in 2007 and he was crazy. Totally crazy.

[Dude!]

fucking references to "2nd amendment remedies" and overthrowing the Government.

No one can even own up to saying this awful shit. Palin deleted her map, then had an aide say they were "prospecting marks", are you fucking serious?

such harsh and
un-ladylike language

you are part of the problem

[CountryBob]

I lean towards the right but I am embarrased how angry the right seems to be now. I will not waste my time watching Glen Beck - he has lost it. Palin's cross hairs on those states were rediculous and I can see how some mentally unstable idiot could interpret that in a violent way. My stepmom is such a blinded, emotional political ninja about any issue that is left or anything to do with Obama. She has ruined friendships and dosent talk to some of her family because they dont 100% agree with her Right views. Once, she was vocal in her beliefs but now she is 1 step away from being violent - and maybe all because of the way the media is brainwashing her. She watches Glen Beck and O'Reily everyday and is constantly mad about our country. I wonder how many others feel the same?

[foodcourtdruide]

But Missy, the left wing media was just as bad when Bush was in office. The problem is, Loughner isn't talking so people are immediately jumping to conclusions. ESPECIALLY Olbermann. But the more you look at Loughner, and the facts of the case, it's looking more and more like he wasn't dialed up by news media... he was just a nut who had targeted Giffords all the way back in 2007 and he was crazy. Totally crazy.

This is absolutely not the case. The media on the left did not routinely use violent metaphors and make hints at revolutions against the government. That did not happen.

[angrymissy]

But Missy, the left wing media was just as bad when Bush was in office. The problem is, Loughner isn't talking so people are immediately jumping to conclusions. ESPECIALLY Olbermann. But the more you look at Loughner, and the facts of the case, it's looking more and more like he wasn't dialed up by news media... he was just a nut who had targeted Giffords all the way back in 2007 and he was crazy. Totally crazy.

No they weren't. I keep hearing the Right saying "you did it first!" and it's totally bullshit. And we are now talking about ELECTED OFFICIALS HERE saying these things. 2nd amendment remedies, arm yourself, the fundamentals of this country are being destroyed, Obama is the enemy, yadda yadda. You absolutely cannot even try to compare the state of things now to then. People weren't suggesting "2nd amendment remedies" to take care of Bush. Mainstream left media were not writing "ARMED REVOLUTION" on chalkboards while solemnly talking about the country being led to shit by the President. You had a few extreme leftist protesters and the like calling Bush a nazi. That's the extent of it. Look at what we're seeing now.

Did you actually watch Olbermann's segment yourself? I suggest you do.

He is absolutely crazy. And what these people are doing with their thinly veiled threats of gun violence is just AS crazy.

[angrymissy]

I lean towards the right but I am embarrased how angry the right seems to be now. I will not waste my time watching Glen Beck - he has lost it. Palin's cross hairs on those states were rediculous and I can see how some mentally unstable idiot could interpret that in a violent way. My stepmom is such a blinded, emotional political ninja about any issue that is left or anything to do with Obama. She has ruined friendships and dosent talk to some of her family because they dont 100% agree with her Right views. Once, she was vocal in her beliefs but now she is 1 step away from being violent - and maybe all because of the way the media is brainwashing her. She watches Glen Beck and O'Reily everyday and is constantly mad about our country. I wonder how many others feel the same?

I know there are people out there like you, because I have friends who are conservative but don't buy into the craziness going on. But I know people exactly like you are describing, who are basically brainwashed by media and believe everything they read on the internet, or see on TV, and they are scary. I have a family member that truly, honestly believes that Obama is a practicing Muslim who was born in Kenya, and is taking part in a secret plot to overthrow the Govt. and put us all under Shai'ra law. When people start thinking like that, they think they are doing the right thing by killing members of the Government.

[Tenbatsuzen]

This is absolutely not the case. The media on the left did not routinely use violent metaphors and make hints at revolutions against the government. That did not happen.

Comparing Bush to Hitler? Bumper Stickers with the elephant and a swastika?

[KnoxHarrington]

No they weren't. I keep hearing the Right saying "you did it first!" and it's totally bullshit. And we are now talking about ELECTED OFFICIALS HERE saying these things. 2nd amendment remedies, arm yourself, the fundamentals of this country are being destroyed, Obama is the enemy, yadda yadda. You absolutely cannot even try to compare the state of things now to then. People weren't suggesting "2nd amendment remedies" to take care of Bush.

Did you actually watch Olbermann's segment yourself? I suggest you do.
He is absolutely crazy. And what these people are doing with their thinly veiled threats of gun violence is just AS crazy.

I'm less concerned about the "media" and more that this shit is coming from actual political figures on the Right: a Vice-Presidential nominee, a Senatorial candidate, a sitting member of the House of Representative. I'm sure you can find people saying awful shit about Bush all damn day on Kos or Democratic Underground or one of those places. Find me actual Democratic elected officials and candidates saying shit with the same level of bile as Palin, Angle, or Bachmann.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

No they weren't. I keep hearing the Right saying "you did it first!" and it's totally bullshit. And we are now talking about ELECTED OFFICIALS HERE saying these things. 2nd amendment remedies, arm yourself, the fundamentals of this country are being destroyed, Obama is the enemy, yadda yadda. You absolutely cannot even try to compare the state of things now to then. People weren't suggesting "2nd amendment remedies" to take care of Bush.

Did you actually watch Olbermann's segment yourself? I suggest you do.
He is absolutely crazy. And what these people are doing with their thinly veiled threats of gun violence is just AS crazy.

I've pointed out people on the left calling for violent revolution and it was dismissed on this board as some wack jobs with no audience or people who didnt know who these people are. People like Frances Fox Piven aren't household names but they do have a following and write in magazines by the nation. Mike Malloy isn't Rush Limbaugh but thinking of him as just a crazy uncle is a weak arguement

[KnoxHarrington]

I've pointed out people on the left calling for violent revolution and it was dismissed on this board as some wack jobs with no audience or people who didnt know who these people are. People like Frances Fox Piven aren't household names but they do have a following and write in magazines by the nation. Mike Malloy isn't Rush Limbaugh but thinking of him as just a crazy uncle is a weak arguement

Mike Molloy is not a member of the House of Representatives!

The crazies are a part of the very heart of the Republican party.

[angrymissy]

Comparing Bush to Hitler? Bumper Stickers with the elephant and a swastika?

You are talking about bumper stickers with swastikas vs. people running for office suggesting "2nd amendment remedies" if they don't get what they want. vs. people with signs "We came unarmed, THIS TIME".

It's not even close to the same... and you are talking about fringe individuals vs. the mainstream media and actual politicians getting a lot of face time on television.

[Tenbatsuzen]

I lean towards the right but I am embarrased how angry the right seems to be now. I will not waste my time watching Glen Beck - he has lost it. Palin's cross hairs on those states were rediculous and I can see how some mentally unstable idiot could interpret that in a violent way. My stepmom is such a blinded, emotional political ninja about any issue that is left or anything to do with Obama. She has ruined friendships and dosent talk to some of her family because they dont 100% agree with her Right views. Once, she was vocal in her beliefs but now she is 1 step away from being violent - and maybe all because of the way the media is brainwashing her. She watches Glen Beck and O'Reily everyday and is constantly mad about our country. I wonder how many others feel the same?

I'm right here with you. I'm a moderate, who will cross party lines to vote for the candidate I feel that can better serve my community. Listening to people like Rush, Beck, Malzberg, etc. make me sick. I don't even watch cable news unless there's a breaking news story - I mainly read google news to disseminate what's going on and then draw my own conclusions.

My father gave me a lot of static for a while because I volunteered for Clinton's campaign in 1992. That made me realize that when it comes to politics, I should keep my mouth shut. I've been maintaining a lie to my parents that I voted for Ron Paul because if they found out who I really voted for I'd never hear the end of it. And as I said - I would have full bore been in McCain's camp if he didn't make the decision to pick Palin as his running mate. As documented here, it was a move to pander to Hillary's base, which failed spectacularly.

[foodcourtdruide]

Comparing Bush to Hitler? Bumper Stickers with the elephant and a swastika?

That was not the left-wing mainstream media, and it certainly wasn't democrats in office (except maybe a few super-fringe ones). I remember when moveon.org made some reference to the Bush Administration and Nazi's and everyone lost their mind. That shit goes on ROUTINELY now. It's commonplace for a right-wing commentator (and elected officials !!!!) to make such comparisons.

Was MSNBC super critical of Bush? Sure. Was Air America super critical of Bush? Sure. But NOTHING like this, and please show me where anything like what the scenario Missy described with Beck occurs on the mainstream left.

I can't believe you're acting like it's anyhwere NEAR the same.

[angrymissy]

I've pointed out people on the left calling for violent revolution and it was dismissed on this board as some wack jobs with no audience or people who didnt know who these people are. People like Frances Fox Piven aren't household names but they do have a following and write in magazines by the nation. Mike Malloy isn't Rush Limbaugh but thinking of him as just a crazy uncle is a weak arguement

You pointed out approx 2 videos of people that 98% of the country wouldn't even recognize their names... versus now we have these things being said on a DAILY basis on mainstream media watched by millions of people, and things being said by elected officials.

The rhetoric in the country now is a billion times more intense and violent than it was during Bush's term. You cannot honestly say that it isn't. You cannot turn such a blind eye to support your party.

You can't pick out 1 or 2 people saying something extreme once, and compare it to tons of people in the media and ELECTED OFFICIALS saying even more extreme things on a practically DAILY basis.

It's just like the people trying to compare this:
Don't Retreat, Reload!
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01799/palin_1799720c.jpg

to the map with archery bullseyes on it saying "we need to win these states" sent out by Dems. It's ridiculous. You can't honestly say it's the same thing

[foodcourtdruide]

I've pointed out people on the left calling for violent revolution and it was dismissed on this board as some wack jobs with no audience or people who didnt know who these people are. People like Frances Fox Piven aren't household names but they do have a following and write in magazines by the nation. Mike Malloy isn't Rush Limbaugh but thinking of him as just a crazy uncle is a weak arguement

WF, do you even know what people are saying to you? No one is denying that if you dig deep enough you can find a lunatic that represents ANY ideology. The point everyone is trying to make is that the violent rhetoric doesn't come from the fringe on the right, it's part of their mainstream message and that is dangerous. Bringing up Alex Jones and Frances Fox Piven (WHO?!) does nothing to dispel this point.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I'm less concerned about the "media" and more that this shit is coming from actual political figures on the Right: a Vice-Presidential nominee, a Senatorial candidate, a sitting member of the House of Representative. I'm sure you can find people saying awful shit about Bush all damn day on Kos or Democratic Underground or one of those places. Find me actual Democratic elected officials and candidates saying shit with the same level of bile as Palin, Angle, or Bachmann.

This isnt like what Palin said but someone can take this the wrong way

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http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/06/14/obama-we-bring-a-gun/

[angrymissy]

WF, do you even know what people are saying to you? No one is denying that if you dig deep enough you can find a lunatic that represents ANY ideology. The point everyone is trying to make is that the violent rhetoric doesn't come from the fringe on the right, it's part of their mainstream message and that is dangerous. Bringing up Alex Jones and Frances Fox Piven (WHO?!) does nothing to dispel this point.

Exactly. If you had 1 or 2 nuts on the right with some little radio show blaring this stuff, no one would be making a big deal out of it.

You now have these things shouted out on a daily basis on television, radio, internet, and by elected officials. It is a totally different ballgame, and anyone who doesn't see that, is pandering to defend their party at any cost.

[Tenbatsuzen]

You are talking about bumper stickers with swastikas vs. people running for office suggesting "2nd amendment remedies" if they don't get what they want. vs. people with signs "We came unarmed, THIS TIME".

It's not even close to the same... and you are talking about fringe individuals vs. the mainstream media and actual politicians getting a lot of face time on television.

The people with the Hitler bumper stickers for Bush on the left (moveon.org, etc.) are the same people who brought signs that said "we came unarmed" on the right. Lots of hot air, but you have no idea how serious they are about it.

Westboro gets a lot of face time on TV. How much do people take them seriously?

As for Sharron Angle, she was running for a senate seat approx. 500 miles away from Loughner lived. You can't say that what Angle said made Loughner jump up and decide to do what he did. That's jumping to a conclusion. We're talking about the Right Wing media brainwashing people, and then you suggest to me I listen to Olbermann's opinion? He's leading the brigade that this is Palin's fault! It's one of the main reasons why I don't watch cable news at all!

And you know what? As much as I hate to say it, Harry Reid's a fucking dolt and we would have been better served as a whole if he wasn't in office. I can't tell you if Angle's words cause Loughner to go shooting, but I can tell you that Harry Reid was responsible for me losing at least 3-5 thousand dollars.

[angrymissy]

This shit, right here:

BACHMANN: And really now in Washington, I’m a foreign correspondent in enemy lines. And I try to keep everyone back here in Minnesota know exactly the nefarious activities that are taking place in Washington. [...]

I want people in Minnesota armed and dangerous on this issue of the energy tax because we need to fight back. Thomas Jefferson told us, having a revolution every now and then is a good thing, and the people — we the people — are going to have to fight back hard if we’re not going to lose our country. And I think this has the potential of changing the dynamic of freedom forever in the United States.

Angle: I feel that the Second Amendment is the right to keep and bear arms for our citizenry. This not for someone who's in the military. This not for law enforcement. This is for us. And in fact when you read that Constitution and the founding fathers, they intended this to stop tyranny. This is for us when our government becomes tyrannical...


Manders: If we needed it at any time in history, it might be right now.

Angle: Well it's to defend ourselves. And you know, I'm hoping that we're not getting to Second Amendment remedies. I hope the vote will be the cure for the Harry Reid problems.

[Furtherman]

WF, do you even know what people are saying to you? No one is denying that if you dig deep enough you can find a lunatic that represents ANY ideology. The point everyone is trying to make is that the violent rhetoric doesn't come from the fringe on the right, it's part of their mainstream message and that is dangerous. Bringing up Alex Jones and Frances Fox Piven (WHO?!) does nothing to dispel this point.

WF is constantly dropping names of left leaning pundits who I have never heard of either, but I think that speaks to the right's audience. They have so many pundits because of their large audience of people who need to be told what to think. Others can think for themselves.

[angrymissy]

The people with the Hitler bumper stickers for Bush on the left (moveon.org, etc.) are the same people who brought signs that said "we came unarmed" on the right. Lots of hot air, but you have no idea how serious they are about it.

Westboro gets a lot of face time on TV. How much do people take them seriously?

As for Sharron Angle, she was running for a senate seat approx. 500 miles away from Loughner lived. You can't say that what Angle said made Loughner jump up and decide to do what he did. That's jumping to a conclusion. We're talking about the Right Wing media brainwashing people, and then you suggest to me I listen to Olbermann's opinion? He's leading the brigade that this is Palin's fault! It's one of the main reasons why I don't watch cable news at all!

And you know what? As much as I hate to say it, Harry Reid's a fucking dolt and we would have been better served as a whole if he wasn't in office. I can't tell you if Angle's words cause Loughner to go shooting, but I can tell you that Harry Reid was responsible for me losing at least 3-5 thousand dollars.

Moveon.org was denounced rather publically by everyone when they made a Bush/Nazi comment, ONCE. Now you have HUNDREDS of news people, private organizations, and elected officals making such comments. It's just not the same. It's like 5% compared to 50%.

No one is saying that one person made this guy shoot a congresswoman. We are saying that all of these people together are stirring up a rather violent pot, which is only going to incite the crazies even further.

You did not listen to what Olbermann said, obviously. I can tell this because of what you are saying. Before you comment on what he said, you should really listen to it yourself, rather than repeating snippets that were reported on certain websites. If you listened to his statement, you would know that he also blamed HIMSELF and the left media. My point is that you should not comment on what Olbermann's opinion on this situation is, without actually LISTENING to his statement yourself so you will actually know what was said. You said earlier that you read the news and form your own opinion, but here you are forming your own opinion on Olbermanns view of this shooting, without actually listening to what Olbermann had to say about it. I actually despise Olbermann, but I watched his segment on this.

Harry Reid being responsible for you losing a few thousand dollars, does not excuse Sharon Angle from using such violent inciting words. I hate Palin with a passion, I would not excuse anyone from saying there should be a violent uprising against her simply because I think she would put our country in the shitter.

[Tenbatsuzen]

That was not the left-wing mainstream media, and it certainly wasn't democrats in office (except maybe a few super-fringe ones). I remember when moveon.org made some reference to the Bush Administration and Nazi's and everyone lost their mind. That shit goes on ROUTINELY now. It's commonplace for a right-wing commentator (and elected officials !!!!) to make such comparisons.

Was MSNBC super critical of Bush? Sure. Was Air America super critical of Bush? Sure. But NOTHING like this, and please show me where anything like what the scenario Missy described with Beck occurs on the mainstream left.

I can't believe you're acting like it's anyhwere NEAR the same.

It's about ratings. Fox has consistently better ratings than CNN or MSNBC, which is why you hear this so much. It's the #1 reason why I don't watch cable news. I make my own decisions, and I don't need a former morning zoo guy or a guy who rehashed Barry Sanders highlights to help me with that.

Palin is a dolt. Harry Reid is a dolt. Both parties on either side are COMPLETELY fucked up.

I have said two things before, and I'll reiterate:

I believe in my heart of hearts that while the intent of the internet was to open lines of communication between everyone, it's made us stupider and most hostile in the long run. Mistruths spread like wildfire and are accepted as fact, and when the truth arises, the damage has been done and no one cares.

The internet is also dangerous because it gives anyone a voice - and an audience - and allows their message to be spread, no matter how wrong.

[foodcourtdruide]

The people with the Hitler bumper stickers for Bush on the left (moveon.org, etc.) are the same people who brought signs that said "we came unarmed" on the right. Lots of hot air, but you have no idea how serious they are about it.

Westboro gets a lot of face time on TV. How much do people take them seriously?



You are just willfully ignoring reality. You really don't see the difference between a Hitler bumper sticker and a sign saying "We came unarmed, THIS TIME"? One is a political hyperbole and the other is a THREAT.

Also, you're ignoring one of the key points Missy is making. The people inciting the violence on the right are THEIR LEADERS IN OFFICE. That is a HUGE difference than when Bush was in power.

[foodcourtdruide]

Moveon.org was denounced rather publically by everyone when they made a Bush/Nazi comment, ONCE.

It's insane, when moveon.org made these comments they were destroyed by the mainstream media. It was a huge controversy.

[angrymissy]

It's insane, when moveon.org made these comments they were destroyed by the mainstream media. It was a huge controversy.

It was a gigantic controversy, and they were immediately denounced by pretty much everyone on the left, politicians, media, everyone. The same things are said on a daily basis now by the right, and are NOT denounced, but applauded.

[Tenbatsuzen]

Moveon.org was denounced rather publically by everyone when they made a Bush/Nazi comment, ONCE. Now you have HUNDREDS of news people, private organizations, and elected officals making such comments. It's just not the same. It's like 5% compared to 50%.

No one is saying that one person made this guy shoot a congresswoman. We are saying that all of these people together are stirring up a rather violent pot, which is only going to incite the crazies even further.

You did not listen to what Olbermann said, obviously. I can tell this because of what you are saying. Before you comment on what he said, you should really listen to it yourself, rather than repeating snippets that were reported on certain websites. If you listened to his statement, you would know that he also blamed HIMSELF and the left media. My point is that you should not comment on what Olbermann's opinion on this situation is, without actually LISTENING to his statement yourself so you will actually know what was said. You said earlier that you read the news and form your own opinion, but here you are forming your own opinion on Olbermanns view of this shooting, without actually listening to what Olbermann had to say about it. I actually despise Olbermann, but I watched his segment on this.

Harry Reid being responsible for you losing a few thousand dollars, does not excuse Sharon Angle from using such violent inciting words. I hate Palin with a passion, I would not excuse anyone from saying there should be a violent uprising against her simply because I think she would put our country in the shitter.

Actually, Olbermann said this to me last night on Twitter:



@Keith Olbermann Deft and accurate summary of Right Wing Media in full-fledged panic and utter denial: http://bit.ly/hKMxwM

@Matt F. @KeithOlbermann So the fact Loughner had Giffords "in his sights" a full year before Palin was on a national level is irrelevant?

@KeithOlbermann The GOP and the far right existed long before Palin. This climate is not exclusively her fault. Fox, Bush, et al, contributed



That REALLY sounds like a guy who is taking fault for this. You're talking about the situation NOW, since 2008, and Olbermann again puts blame on the GOP, saying it's all their fault going back to the Bush administration.

I've kept an eye on this. All of this shit really exploded when the election cycle for 2008 started. For Olbermann to blame the GOP and Fox/Bush for this situation smacks of recklessness and washing his hands of the situation.

[angrymissy]

Giffords herself said this about the Palin "crosshairs map"

"We are on Sarah Palin's targeted list, but the way that she has it depicted has the cross hairs of a gun sight over our district. When people do that, they have to realize that there are consequenc*es to that action."”

[angrymissy]

Actually, Olbermann said this to me last night on Twitter:



That REALLY sounds like a guy who is taking fault for this. You're talking about the situation NOW, since 2008, and Olbermann again puts blame on the GOP, saying it's all their fault going back to the Bush administration.

I've kept an eye on this. All of this shit really exploded when the election cycle for 2008 started. For Olbermann to blame the GOP and Fox/Bush for this situation smacks of recklessness and washing his hands of the situation.

You are reading response tweets. Like I said, he fairly succinctly explains his views on this entire situation in detail. I suggest you watch that, as he actually takes blame HIMSELF. He says it, out loud, himself. I don't know why you wouldn't just watch it, rather than cherry pick tweets, unless you want to just believe in your head that he places all the blame on Palin.

And, he is not blaming Palin or the GOP for this shooting directly. No one is. They are blaming them for creating a political climate where threats of violence are acceptable. Now that an act of violence has occurred, OF COURSE they are going to be called out on it. Why wouldn't they be?

The woman put out a map, with a crosshair specifically placed over a district, with the name of this congresswoman as a target, and said "don't retreat, reload". The congresswoman was shot. Should this just be ignored?

[Tenbatsuzen]

You are just willfully ignoring reality. You really don't see the difference between a Hitler bumper sticker and a sign saying "We came unarmed, THIS TIME"? One is a political hyperbole and the other is a THREAT.

Also, you're ignoring one of the key points Missy is making. The people inciting the violence on the right are THEIR LEADERS IN OFFICE. That is a HUGE difference than when Bush was in power.

Who are the elected officials (key word, not candidates) that have made threats?

I've seen people like LaRouche PAC make the Obama = Hitler designations, but those aren't elected leaders.

Angle wasn't elected either.

Jesse Kelly - who was a soldier and knows something about weapons - wasn't elected either.

The key is - the news media - who propagate these ideas in the name of RATINGS - are the biggest people to blame in this whole mess. It's the ONLY FUCKING REASON we know about people like Westboro and the Catholic League. You look at Westboro, it's basically one family from west bumfuck Kansas, and the Catholic League is Bill Donahue and some good letterhead and a contacts list.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

WF is constantly dropping names of left leaning pundits who I have never heard of either, but I think that speaks to the right's audience. They have so many pundits because of their large audience of people who need to be told what to think. Others can think for themselves.

Remember this?


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And what dofference does it make on the size of the audience or the persons name recognition. Just because they arent as famous doesn't underscore their rhetoric. Ed Schultz was talking about tossing Cheney's heart like a football

[CountryBob]

Palin is a dolt. Harry Reid is a dolt. Both parties on either side are COMPLETELY fucked up.

I have said two things before, and I'll reiterate:

I believe in my heart of hearts that while the intent of the internet was to open lines of communication between everyone, it's made us stupider and most hostile in the long run. Mistruths spread like wildfire and are accepted as fact, and when the truth arises, the damage has been done and no one cares.

The internet is also dangerous because it gives anyone a voice - and an audience - and allows their message to be spread, no matter how wrong.

Well said :thumbup:

[angrymissy]

Here:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/08/keith-olbermann-arizona-shooting_n_806311.html

Appearing on a special edition of "Countdown," Olbermann told his audience that "we need to put the guns down. Just as importantly we need to put the gun metaphors away and permanently."

Olbermann continued, "Left, right, middle - politicians and citizens - sane and insane. This morning in Arizona, this age in which this country would accept "targeting" of political opponents and putting bullseyes over their faces and of the dangerous blurring between political rallies and gun shows, ended."

He concluded his special comment with this powerful statement, including an apology for his own actions: "Violence, or the threat of violence, has no place in our Democracy, and I apologize for and repudiate any act or any thing in my past that may have even inadvertently encouraged violence. Because for whatever else each of us may be, we all are Americans."

What he said there is what EVERYONE should be saying. That statement right there should have been said word for word by Palin.

[angrymissy]

Who are the elected officials (key word, not candidates) that have made threats?

I've seen people like LaRouche PAC make the Obama = Hitler designations, but those aren't elected leaders.

Angle wasn't elected either.

Jesse Kelly - who was a soldier and knows something about weapons - wasn't elected either.

The key is - the news media - who propagate these ideas in the name of RATINGS - are the biggest people to blame in this whole mess. It's the ONLY FUCKING REASON we know about people like Westboro and the Catholic League. You look at Westboro, it's basically one family from west bumfuck Kansas, and the Catholic League is Bill Donahue and some good letterhead and a contacts list.

Michelle Bachmann.

[Tenbatsuzen]

You are reading response tweets.



No, Olbermann said that to me DIRECTLY when I asked him if it's irrelevant that Loughner targeted Giffords in 2007. I took out my screen name.

[angrymissy]

Remember this?


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And what dofference does it make on the size of the audience or the persons name recognition. Just because they arent as famous doesn't underscore their rhetoric. Ed Schultz was talking about tossing Cheney's heart like a football

I don't know if I should even bother trying to explain this to you again. Read my prior posts, I guess.

2 no name lefty people saying something once or twice does not equal hundreds of people, including elected officials, saying even worse things on a daily basis.

[angrymissy]

No, Olbermann said that to me DIRECTLY when I asked him if it's irrelevant that Loughner targeted Giffords in 2007. I took out my screen name.

Yes, a single sentence response to you. As I said before, and quoted up above, he takes responsibility himself for the climate today.

Do you see that he says "this climate" was not created solely by Palin? He is not blaming them for the shooting. He is blaming them for contributing to this ridiculous, violence tinged, political climate that has gotten worse and worse over the past few years.

[Tenbatsuzen]

Michelle Bachmann.

And the reason why that out-of-context quote was proliferated? News media and the internet!

[CountryBob]

You are reading response tweets. Like I said, he fairly succinctly explains his views on this entire situation in detail. I suggest you watch that, as he actually takes blame HIMSELF. He says it, out loud, himself. I don't know why you wouldn't just watch it, rather than cherry pick tweets, unless you want to just believe in your head that he places all the blame on Palin.

And, he is not blaming Palin or the GOP for this shooting directly. No one is. They are blaming them for creating a political climate where threats of violence are acceptable. Now that an act of violence has occurred, OF COURSE they are going to be called out on it. Why wouldn't they be?

The woman put out a map, with a crosshair specifically placed over a district, with the name of this congresswoman as a target, and said "don't retreat, reload". The congresswoman was shot. Should this just be ignored?

It should not be ignored - everyone (media, politicians) need to realize that there are crazy people in this world and due to the internet and technology these days, they need to be more cautious about what goes out to the masses. Hopefully now, (after a terrible shooting) we may think differently - but I am feeling that nothing will change.

[angrymissy]

And the reason why that out-of-context quote was proliferated? News media and the internet!

Not taken out of context one bit. You can go watch the video yourself.

I am not an idiot, I think you know that. I don't just take things at face value, I research them. Go ahead and research what she said, it was not taken out of context at all. The woman is incredibly uninformed and borderline dangerous. She says shit like that all the time.

CHRIS MATTHEWS: So you believe that Barack Obama may have anti-American views?

BACHMANN: Absolutely. I’m very concerned he may have anti-American views.

Stir the pot, stir the crazies.

[Furtherman]

Remember this?



No.

[A.J.]

When there are people like this out there, it doesn't take much amping up from the far right politicos and pundits to cause an incident like this to happen.

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[angrymissy]

Another Bachmann gem

"I said I had very serious concerns that Barack Obama had anti-American views," she said. "And now I look like Nostradamus."

Are all of these just taken out of context, even when you can watch the full video of it being said? Even when it is said multiple times? Oh, and Bachmann tried to say that Matthews "tricked" her into saying that in the first place, then just repeated it again.

So when you have public officials calling Obama "Anti-American", shouting "liar" at him, etc etc, it's a tiny tad bit different than what was happening with Bush.

[Snacks]

But Missy, the left wing media was just as bad when Bush was in office. The problem is, Loughner isn't talking so people are immediately jumping to conclusions. ESPECIALLY Olbermann. But the more you look at Loughner, and the facts of the case, it's looking more and more like he wasn't dialed up by news media... he was just a nut who had targeted Giffords all the way back in 2007 and he was crazy. Totally crazy.

wtf are you talking about. the left has never called or hinted to their base to be violent towards the repubs. maybe they should be a little nastier or have more fighting words but then again thats what the right has been doing for 2+ years now and this shit happens. like i said before there are nut jobs on both sides but it seems the nuttier ones are on the right and they have guns and are influenced much easier!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Because Democrats dont say insane things


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[Snacks]

Comparing Bush to Hitler? Bumper Stickers with the elephant and a swastika?

thats nasty and true but it wasnt violent and it wasnt asking the left to arm themselves and shoot to kill. thats what the right and beck, palin rush etc do!

[Snacks]

I'm right here with you. I'm a moderate, who will cross party lines to vote for the candidate I feel that can better serve my community. Listening to people like Rush, Beck, Malzberg, etc. make me sick. I don't even watch cable news unless there's a breaking news story - I mainly read google news to disseminate what's going on and then draw my own conclusions.

My father gave me a lot of static for a while because I volunteered for Clinton's campaign in 1992. That made me realize that when it comes to politics, I should keep my mouth shut. I've been maintaining a lie to my parents that I voted for Ron Paul because if they found out who I really voted for I'd never hear the end of it. And as I said - I would have full bore been in McCain's camp if he didn't make the decision to pick Palin as his running mate. As documented here, it was a move to pander to Hillary's base, which failed spectacularly.

then your not a man and your parents are assholes for not allowing you to be honest and vote for who you want. and there is the problem, you need to be afraid to admit when you vote for who you feel is right for the country rather then who your parents have been programed to vote for. your in your 30s (i think) and you still need to lie? wow sorry but thats very pussy!

[angrymissy]

More:

Paul Broun, R Congressman, GA
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/11/12/congressman-sorry-for-likening-obama-to-hitler/
Republican Paul Broun is sorry for calling President-elect Barack Obama a 'Marxist' and comparing him to Adolf Hitler, the Georgia Congressman said Tuesday.
-
Jim Demint, R Congressman, SC
Our country under Obama is just like Germany before WW2
http://washingtonindependent.com/50152/demint-america-is-where-germany-was-before-world-war-ii
-
Sen. Richard Shelby (R-AL)
Sen. Jim Inhofe (R-OK)
Both questioned if Obama was truly a US Citizen
http://washingtonindependent.com/30958/i-haven%E2%80%99t-seen-any-birth-certificate
http://thinkprogress.org/2009/07/27/inhofe-birthers-point/
-
Rep. Trent Franks (R-AZ)
Obama is an "enemy of humanity"
http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2009/09/29/franks
-
Former Rep. Tom Tancredo (R-CO)
“a more serious threat to America than al Qaeda,” and said he was “a dedicated enemy of the Constitution"
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/jul/22/the-case-for-impeachment/
-

[Dudeman]

No they weren't. I keep hearing the Right saying "you did it first!" and it's totally bullshit. And we are now talking about ELECTED OFFICIALS HERE saying these things. 2nd amendment remedies, arm yourself, the fundamentals of this country are being destroyed, Obama is the enemy, yadda yadda. You absolutely cannot even try to compare the state of things now to then. People weren't suggesting "2nd amendment remedies" to take care of Bush. Mainstream left media were not writing "ARMED REVOLUTION" on chalkboards while solemnly talking about the country being led to shit by the President. You had a few extreme leftist protesters and the like calling Bush a nazi. That's the extent of it. Look at what we're seeing now.


Why bother going over this here anymore? The obvious differences have been pointed out over and over again, but a few people here (WF) won't acknowledge the obvious. Yes, there is dumb rhetoric on both sides, but the exposure, intensity and volume on one side is greater than the other.

(On a side note, while the discussion of violent rhetoric is worthwhile, I think the discussions more germane to the situation are: (1) the ability of a severely mentally ill individual to buy a gun (strict interpretation of the 2nd amendment) and (2) funding of mental health services (taxes & government services = bad.)

[angrymissy]

Now that I have posted names of elected officials who have said nutbar things about Obama, can someone please show me some examples of elected officials saying similar things about Bush during his term?

There are even more, those are just the few I was able to pull this AM.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I cant believe people are dismissing the rhetoric of the left as unimportant. I dont care of its a politician , Radio Host, writer for a progressive magazine or someone on MSNBC. Yes the right has their crazies but so does the left. Trying to sweep it under the rug or make excuses that their audience isn't big is such a weak and desperate arguement.

[KnoxHarrington]

I cant believe people are dismissing the rhetoric of the left as unimportant. I dont care of its a politician , Radio Host, writer for a progressive magazine or someone on MSNBC. Yes the right has their crazies but so does the left. Trying to sweep it under the rug or make excuses that their audience isn't big is such a weak and desperate arguement.

What's "weak and desperate" is responding to this by saying something like "Oh, those are surveyor's marks on that map, not crosshairs."

[angrymissy]

I cant believe people are dismissing the rhetoric of the left as unimportant. I dont care of its a politician , Radio Host, writer for a progressive magazine or someone on MSNBC. Yes the right has their crazies but so does the left. Trying to sweep it under the rug or make excuses that their audience isn't big is such a weak and desperate arguement.

It's not that it's unimportant, it's that it is FAR less prevalent than what is now happening under Obama's term. Can you at least agree with that? I can't see how you wouldn't be able to see it.

Also, the amount of elected officials comparing Obama to Hitler, Chavez, saying that he is not eligible to be President... can you find me some elected officials who said that during Bush's term?

[angrymissy]

What's "weak and desperate" is responding to this by saying something like "Oh, those are surveyor's marks on that map, not crosshairs."

I would have far more respect for the woman if she would have admitted to her mistake and apologized. Instead, you get that disgusting bullshit.

I am not a fan of Olbermann, but what he said, is exactly what should have came out of Palin's mouth.

"Violence, or the threat of violence, has no place in our Democracy, and I apologize for and repudiate any act or any thing in my past that may have even inadvertently encouraged violence. Because for whatever else each of us may be, we all are Americans."

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Olbermann apologizes for speaking too soon


http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/256747/mr-civility-katrina-trinko

[Dudeman]

It's not that it's unimportant, it's that it is FAR less prevalent than what is now happening under Obama's term. Can you at least agree with that? I can't see how you wouldn't be able to see it.

Also, the amount of elected officials comparing Obama to Hitler, Chavez, saying that he is not eligible to be President... can you find me some elected officials who said that during Bush's term?

Save yourself. Don't try to get him to just admit the obvious. This is his point of view:

I cant believe people are dismissing the rhetoric of the left as unimportant. I dont care of its a politician , Radio Host, writer for a progressive magazine or someone on MSNBC. Yes the right has their crazies but so does the left. Trying to sweep it under the rug or make excuses that their audience isn't big is such a weak and desperate arguement.

No matter how stupid you make think it is, he's not going to budge.

[angrymissy]

Olbermann apologizes for speaking too soon

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/256747/mr-civility-katrina-trinko

So, they are criticizing him for apologizing for saying anything that would be inflammatory.

Yup, sounds like the Right to me.

Seriously, with this shit?

By the way, that headline is amazingly deceptive.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

It's not that it's unimportant, it's that it is FAR less prevalent than what is now happening under Obama's term. Can you at least agree with that? I can't see how you wouldn't be able to see it.

Also, the amount of elected officials comparing Obama to Hitler, Chavez, saying that he is not eligible to be President... can you find me some elected officials who said that during Bush's term?

Do you remember all the Democratic pols calling for Bush's impeachment.

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2008/06/12/democrats_scuttle_proposal_to_impeach_bush/

I agree there is a lot of resentment towards Obama but Dubya's 8 yearswere not exactly a walk in the park either

[WRESTLINGFAN]

So, they are criticizing him for apologizing for saying anything that would be inflammatory.

Yup, sounds like the Right to me.

Seriously, with this shit?

By the way, that headline is amazingly deceptive.

Because Olbermann says psycho talk all the time in a desperate plea to get viewers.


Heres another example

http://patterico.com/2007/09/10/olbermann-fox-news-worse-than-al-qaeda/

[angrymissy]

Because Olbermann says psycho talk all the time in a desperate plea to get viewers.

Heres another example

http://patterico.com/2007/09/10/olbermann-fox-news-worse-than-al-qaeda/

Here we go, with the "BUT YOU DID IT FIRST!"

Point here - Olbermann came out with a statement against violence, and apologized if he had said anything inflammatory, and said it should stop. Instead of joining him and denouncing violence, they went on the attack against him. Typical.

Palin has said far worse, why are they not denouncing her? Instead, they deflect and try to attack the left.

[angrymissy]

Do you remember all the Democratic pols calling for Bush's impeachment.

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2008/06/12/democrats_scuttle_proposal_to_impeach_bush/

I agree there is a lot of resentment towards Obama but Dubya's 8 yearswere not exactly a walk in the park either

Calling for an impeachment is nothing like the quotes I posted above... and it was basically all Kunich.

Can you find something similar to what I posted? An elected official comparing Bush to Hitler? Calling him anti-American?

[Snacks]

Do you remember all the Democratic pols calling for Bush's impeachment.

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2008/06/12/democrats_scuttle_proposal_to_impeach_bush/

I agree there is a lot of resentment towards Obama but Dubya's 8 yearswere not exactly a walk in the park either

how were the Clinton years? They went after him with everything and the only thing they found was he got blow jobs. The entire 8 years he was in office they tried everything to fuck him. The difference between the 2 is Bush deserved to be impeached. They both lied, Clinton lied about a personal matter that effect no one. Bush's lie created wars all over the middle east, made us hated world wide and his lies led to 4000+ Americans being killed and another 25,000+ being wounded for life. Oh not to mention out economy and society shifted even greater to 1 side having it all and the rest left with scraps!

Dont fucking compare the 2!

[CountryBob]

how were the Clinton years? They went after him with everything and the only thing they found was he got blow jobs. The entire 8 years he was in office they tried everything to fuck him. The difference between the 2 is Bush deserved to be impeached. They both lied, Clinton lied about a personal matter that effect no one. Bush's lie created wars all over the middle east, made us hated world wide and his lies led to 4000+ Americans being killed and another 25,000+ being wounded for life. Oh not to mention out economy and society shifted even greater to 1 side having it all and the rest left with scraps!

Dont fucking compare the 2!

I dont follow alot but did Bush lie or was he acting on misinformation?

[foodcourtdruide]

I dont follow alot but did Bush lie or was he acting on misinformation?

You can probably make arguments for both.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Calling for an impeachment is nothing like the quotes I posted above... and it was basically all Kunich.

Can you find something similar to what I posted? An elected official comparing Bush to Hitler? Calling him anti-American?

Politicians saying a President gets enjoyment out of soldiers with heads blown off isnt psycho talk?


I already said Obama gets his ctrticism some over the top but Dubya had his and there were a lot of hateful words. Just because the left doesnt have a bigger platform using that as an excuse just doent work.


I already said it doesnt matter if its a pol or some dope with a microphone. Its still psychotalk across the board

[midwestjeff]

You can probably make arguments for both.

At that point you are really just splitting crosshairs.

[Snacks]

I dont follow alot but did Bush lie or was he acting on misinformation?

in my opinion and many other peoples opinion he lied. Even if he had misinformation he wanted to go to war with Iraq. He found a reason or whatever reason he could use. They had nothing to do with 9/11 but he now had an excuse for war and used so called misinformation to justify it! yet it seemed like created information that he wanted rather then that was true! equals a lie!

[Dudeman]

I dont follow alot but did Bush lie or was he acting on misinformation?

Former White House press secretary Scott McClellan writes in a new memoir that the Iraq war was sold to the American people with a sophisticated "political propaganda campaign" led by President Bush and aimed at "manipulating sources of public opinion" and "downplaying the major reason for going to war."

But in a chapter titled "Selling the War," he alleges that the administration repeatedly shaded the truth and that Bush "managed the crisis in a way that almost guaranteed that the use of force would become the only feasible option."

"Over that summer of 2002," he writes, "top Bush aides had outlined a strategy for carefully orchestrating the coming campaign to aggressively sell the war. . . . In the permanent campaign era, it was all about manipulating sources of public opinion to the president's advantage."

McClellan, once a staunch defender of the war from the podium, comes to a stark conclusion, writing, "What I do know is that war should only be waged when necessary, and the Iraq war was not necessary." (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/27/AR2008052703679.html)

[angrymissy]

Politicians saying a President gets enjoyment out of soldiers with heads blown off isnt psycho talk?


I already said Obama gets his ctrticism some over the top but Dubya had his and there were a lot of hateful words. Just because the left doesnt have a bigger platform using that as an excuse just doent work.


I already said it doesnt matter if its a pol or some dope with a microphone. Its still psychotalk across the board

You've found that one, got any others? Maybe some Bush is hitler? Or Bush is anti-American even?

My point is (it's the point I've been trying to make this entire thread), that while there did exist hatred for Bush, it was nowhere even close to the level of out there, mainstream hatred of Obama.

[Dudeman]

in my opinion and many other peoples opinion he lied. Even if he had misinformation he wanted to go to war with Iraq. He found a reason or whatever reason he could use. They had nothing to do with 9/11 but he now had an excuse for war and used so called misinformation to justify it! yet it seemed like created information that he wanted rather then that was true! equals a lie!

It isn't just your opinion, it is Bush's own White House Press Secretary's opinion (as I quoted above.)

[WRESTLINGFAN]

how were the Clinton years? They went after him with everything and the only thing they found was he got blow jobs. The entire 8 years he was in office they tried everything to fuck him. The difference between the 2 is Bush deserved to be impeached. They both lied, Clinton lied about a personal matter that effect no one. Bush's lie created wars all over the middle east, made us hated world wide and his lies led to 4000+ Americans being killed and another 25,000+ being wounded for life. Oh not to mention out economy and society shifted even greater to 1 side having it all and the rest left with scraps!

Dont fucking compare the 2!

Give me a break Like the Clinton and Obama white houses are pure. Stop it already

[WRESTLINGFAN]

The 24 hr cable news cycle has conditioned many to say things without getting all the facts and info. It sadly happened again. Talk radio and tea party was blamed there were preliminary reports saying he was an Afghan war vet.

[angrymissy]

The 24 hr cable news cycle has conditioned many to say things without getting all the facts and info. It sadly happened again. Talk radio and tea party was blamed there were preliminary reports saying he was an Afghan war vet.

Any links?

He stated online that he was a military recruit... which was found to be false. Sure you didn't hear them discussing that?

[razorboy]

The 24 hr cable news cycle has conditioned many to say things without getting all the facts and info. It sadly happened again.

Nobody made you post.

[disneyspy]

Any links?

www.crazyWFblog.com

[Snacks]

Give me a break Like the Clinton and Obama white houses are pure. Stop it already

Who said they were Pure? (Actually Obama has done nothing wrong (that we know of so far) But what Clinton did doesnt compare to what Bush did. Sorry, getting a blow job and lying about it doesnt bother me. 100K or more people world wide, injured or dead bothers me!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Any links?

He stated online that he was a military recruit... which was found to be false. Sure you didn't hear them discussing that?



http://www.mediaite.com/online/who-is-the-assailant-that-opened-fire-on-rep-gabrielle-giffords/


"In an interview earlier with Shepard Smith, Arizona State Representative Linda Lopez identified the assailant as a veteran of the Afghanistan War, though that is not yet confirmed. Also, the assailant had also been identified as a 22 year-old white male, though no further information has thus been released".

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Who said they were Pure? (Actually Obama has done nothing wrong (that we know of so far) But what Clinton did doesnt compare to what Bush did. Sorry, getting a blow job and lying about it doesnt bother me. 100K or more people world wide, injured or dead bothers me!

Because dead balkans and 80 civilians in Texas don't matter?


Obama is continuing nation building, the eroding of the economy, the patriot act. He made sure the UAW was bailed out but not the bond holders. His mismanagement of the BP oil spill. Don't worry theres still 2 years more to go.

[angrymissy]

http://www.mediaite.com/online/who-is-the-assailant-that-opened-fire-on-rep-gabrielle-giffords/


"In an interview earlier with Shepard Smith, Arizona State Representative Linda Lopez identified the assailant as a veteran of the Afghanistan War, though that is not yet confirmed. Also, the assailant had also been identified as a 22 year-old white male, though no further information has thus been released".

#1: Fox News.

#2: A State Rep said it during an interview

#3. It specifically says that was not confirmed.

[A.J.]

Nice.

Arizona's public defender's office has asked that Loughner be represented by the attorney who represented the Unabomber (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/09/AR2011010904478.html?hpid=topnews).

[Furtherman]

Obama is continuing nation building, the eroding of the economy, the patriot act. He made sure the UAW was bailed out but not the bond holders. His mismanagement of the BP oil spill. Don't worry theres still 2 years more to go.

You continue to glorify the exact rhetoric which is the problem that flash-fired these past three days. You're not going to find anyone here who will agree with you, and not because they on the left, it's because you're just filled with that same nonsensical "facts" the right spews on a daily basis.

Obama is vilified on a daily basis by your talk gods for practices whose successes or failures won't even be felt for years. (the oil spill, really?) It's irresponsible journalism, a term I'd use lightly. It's laughable, despite your thinly veiled "I'm in the middle" statements.

Bush's term was no walk in the park? He was vilified because of an act that was instant and planned: When half this country sat in front of their televisions, confused, as to why we were invading Iraq. All the shit he caught after that was deserved.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

You continue to glorify the exact rhetoric which is the problem that flash-fired these past three days. You're not going to find anyone here who will agree with you, and not because they on the left, it's because you're just filled with that same nonsensical "facts" the right spews on a daily basis.

Obama is vilified on a daily basis by your talk gods for practices whose successes or failures won't even be felt for years. (the oil spill, really?) It's irresponsible journalism, a term I'd use lightly. It's laughable, despite your thinly veiled "I'm in the middle" statements.

Bush's term was no walk in the park? He was vilified because of an act that was instant and planned: When half this country sat in front of their televisions, confused, as to why we were invading Iraq. All the shit he caught after that was deserved.

I don't need the talkers or Fox news to see Obama's mismanagent and his failures and his continued sinking of the economy. Defending Obama's continuing of the Bush agenda is pathetic.


The Stimulus another failure. When the amount of money wasted on this gets known even more will you defend that? Obama's main goal was to revive the economy but he pushed thru a healthcare scam when it was not wanted and the economy is still bleeding. In 2008 he was campaigning on jobs but in 2009-2010 he had to get this 2 trillion dollar waste of money thru

[WRESTLINGFAN]

#1: Fox News.

#2: A State Rep said it during an interview

#3. It specifically says that was not confirmed.

# 4 Why would she say that then?

[Snacks]

Because dead balkans and 80 civilians in Texas don't matter?


Obama is continuing nation building, the eroding of the economy, the patriot act. He made sure the UAW was bailed out but not the bond holders. His mismanagement of the BP oil spill. Don't worry theres still 2 years more to go.

what 80 civilians do you speak of?

Even if whatever nonsense you are talking about was true (doubt it) 100k or more people dont equal anything Obama or Clinton could ever do.

[A.J.]

Defending Obama's continuing of the Bush agenda is pathetic.

Nobody is defending this since nobody is pointing it out.

[Furtherman]

I don't need the talkers or Fox news to see Obama's mismanagent and his failures and his continued sinking of the economy. Defending Obama's continuing of the Bush agenda is pathetic.


The Stimulus another failure. When the amount of money wasted on this gets known even more will you defend that? Obama's main goal was to revive the economy but he pushed thru a healthcare scam when it was not wanted and the economy is still bleeding. In 2008 he was campaigning on jobs but in 2009-2010 he had to get this 2 trillion dollar waste of money thru

Right.

I rest my case.

[A.J.]

what 80 civilians do you speak of?

Probably Waco.

[foodcourtdruide]

what 80 civilians do you speak of?

Even if whatever nonsense you are talking about was true (doubt it) 100k or more people dont equal anything Obama or Clinton could ever do.

My guess is Waco?

[midwestjeff]

Could be Waco.

[foodcourtdruide]

Nobody is defending this since nobody is pointing it out.

This is WF's debate tactic we've all come to love. He has a debate with someone who does not exist. Especially when he's clearly wrong, he will argue against a point no one made.

[angrymissy]

# 4 Why would she say that then?

Probably a mix up due to the fact that he did, indeed apply for military service.

A State rep saying something like that during an interview, is not exactly them reporting that as fact... they even said it wasn't confirmed.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

what 80 civilians do you speak of?

Even if whatever nonsense you are talking about was true (doubt it) 100k or more people dont equal anything Obama or Clinton could ever do.

Remember Waco ?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

This is WF's debate tactic we've all come to love. He has a debate with someone who does not exist. Especially when he's clearly wrong, he will argue against a point no one made.

Whats wrong with pointing out mismanagement of other Presidents? Bush was called a war criminal. Obama is continuing drone strikes , more than Bush .Civilians have been killed but nothing, not a word about Obama the war criminal. Its Obama so it gets swept under the rug. I see it now