Scott Walker the naturally thin Chris Christie

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Well the public sector unions are going apeshit in Wisconsin. This is causing teachers to call out sick. Students are marching in the street.

From my take of this, the governor isnt taking away the right of collective bargaining for salaries. Its the pension and health care benefits that shouldnt be collectively bargained.

http://www.npr.org/2011/02/16/133814271/union-changes-in-wisconsin-spark-protests

[BustahMyTool]

Tilt is a kickass album

[HBox]

When a governor wants to unilaterally strip collective bargaining rights and threatens to send in the national guard in the event of a strike...... yeah, that's a bit much.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

When a governor wants to unilaterally strip collective bargaining rights and threatens to send in the national guard in the event of a strike...... yeah, that's a bit much.

"Tin soldiers and Obamas coming. We're finally on our own" just doesnt have the same appeal

[KnoxHarrington]

I'm sure Epo will be along soon to lay waste to this thread, so I'll just post my favorite Scott Walker song here:

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/RnLfST5Avqs" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[KC2OSO]

I'm sure Epo will be along soon to lay waste to this thread, so I'll just post my favorite Scott Walker song here:

Very nice tune. The intro is sort of long.

[spoon]

Yah I'd be willing to bet Eps is busy actually dealing with the situation versus being here to post about it. We'll get a check soon enough, but this mayor seems like a world class asshole. I wonder how many people think it's a good thing that the working class, our middle class is the only target of our government's budget crackdown. I truly can't believe how often people with rally to the cry that is completely against their own best interest. Sure some tweaks have to be made, but ripping those few unions we have left apart is NOT the answer. And this isn't going to fix budgets in any state. I am however angry that the dems didn't live up to their promise to make it easier/safer to unionize and protect those that want to do so.

[Pitdoc]

Well the public sector unions are going apeshit in Wisconsin. This is causing teachers to call out sick. Students are marching in the street.

From my take of this, the governor isnt taking away the right of collective bargaining for salaries. Its the pension and health care benefits that shouldnt be collectively bargained.

http://www.npr.org/2011/02/16/133814271/union-changes-in-wisconsin-spark-protests

Yes, he says he has to do it to avoid deficits.... deficits he created by giving big corporations in his state tax cuts ( He gave a tax cut to McDONALDS, saying they wouldn't open more restauraunts in the state if they didnt have them)

[spoon]

Yes, he says he has to do it to avoid deficits.... deficits he created by giving big corporations in his state tax cuts ( He gave a tax cut to McDONALDS, saying they wouldn't open more restauraunts in the state if they didnt have them)

classic

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Hosni Walker?

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/f_OPQR7RJ0w" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[epo]

I'll lay waste to this thread in depth at a later time, but let me state these quick points:

1. In total compensation public sector workers in WI make 8.2% less than private sectors for similar work.
2. The state is projected to have a $127M surplus as of January so this is an imaginary crisis.
3. In January Walker gave about $140M in tax cuts away to corporations.
4. Walker figures that this will save the state $300M over 2 years (look at point 3 for correlation).
5. He skipped the negotation process with the public unions and just did this. They were willing to give concesssions.
6. He wants to decertify the public unions which means they can't negotiate for anything but pay. Not on pension, health care, working conditions or safety.
7. He gave an exception to the decertification to cops & firefighters claiming public safety, yet they were the only groups to support him in the election. Political payback?

I've got to go now, we've got flaming bags of poo to put on his steps.

[Snoogans]

Yes, he says he has to do it to avoid deficits.... deficits he created by giving big corporations in his state tax cuts ( He gave a tax cut to McDONALDS, saying they wouldn't open more restauraunts in the state if they didnt have them)

i love that shit. The best part will be when no one can go to those new McDonalds they opened because the governor made them pay for their own benefits and took away their pensions

[KC2OSO]

http://www.tvacres.com/images/hats_jimmywalker.jpg

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I'll lay waste to this thread in depth at a later time, but let me state these quick points:

1. In total compensation public sector workers in WI make 8.2% less than private sectors for similar work.
2. The state is projected to have a $127M surplus as of January so this is an imaginary crisis.
3. In January Walker gave about $140M in tax cuts away to corporations.
4. Walker figures that this will save the state $300M over 2 years (look at point 3 for correlation).
5. He skipped the negotation process with the public unions and just did this. They were willing to give concesssions.
6. He wants to decertify the public unions which means they can't negotiate for anything but pay. Not on pension, health care, working conditions or safety.
7. He gave an exception to the decertification to cops & firefighters claiming public safety, yet they were the only groups to support him in the election. Political payback?

I've got to go now, we've got flaming bags of poo to put on his steps.

Don't even lay a hand on Lara Logan. as far as Anderson Cooper dont hurt him too badly

[Snoogans]

I'll lay waste to this thread in depth at a later time, but let me state these quick points:

1. In total compensation public sector workers in WI make 8.2% less than private sectors for similar work.
2. The state is projected to have a $127M surplus as of January so this is an imaginary crisis.
3. In January Walker gave about $140M in tax cuts away to corporations.
4. Walker figures that this will save the state $300M over 2 years (look at point 3 for correlation).
5. He skipped the negotation process with the public unions and just did this. They were willing to give concesssions.
6. He wants to decertify the public unions which means they can't negotiate for anything but pay. Not on pension, health care, working conditions or safety.
7. He gave an exception to the decertification to cops & firefighters claiming public safety, yet they were the only groups to support him in the election. Political payback?

I've got to go now, we've got flaming bags of poo to put on his steps.

you better hope no one does this or you will be forced to take down your map of houses that you want to burn shit on their porch

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I hope the protesters get creative like the Egyptians did and walk around like this


http://www.rachelleb.com/images/2005_08_07/cheesehead.jpg

[epo]

The Senate Democrats have left the Capitol to break the quorum. Without them there is no vote and the governor has called for the state police to track them down. Sort of like Texas democrats a few years ago with the redistricting challenge.

[Snoogans]

The Senate Democrats have left the Capitol to break the quorum. Without them there is no vote and the governor has called for the state police to track them down. Sort of like Texas democrats a few years ago with the redistricting challenge.

Maybe he will call on the CIA next. Or threaten to bomb his own state like Iran did

[epo]

Maybe he will call on the CIA next. Or threaten to bomb his own state like Iran did

This is fucking great. I love my party for putting this together and turning this into the event that is has become.

[spoon]

I'll lay waste to this thread in depth at a later time, but let me state these quick points:

1. In total compensation public sector workers in WI make 8.2% less than private sectors for similar work.
2. The state is projected to have a $127M surplus as of January so this is an imaginary crisis.
3. In January Walker gave about $140M in tax cuts away to corporations.
4. Walker figures that this will save the state $300M over 2 years (look at point 3 for correlation).


It's a lot easier to gain camp contributions from corps than unions as a Republican, yet he somehow landed those you mentioned which baffles me to no end.

Also, isn't it funny how badly everything has favored corporations since the days of Reagan (so bad for the country overall and especially the middle class and regulation)? I can't stand just about everything he has done. I loathe the guy so much I refuse to use that awful airport, not even for connections.

[Dudeman]

I'll lay waste to this thread in depth at a later time, but let me state these quick points:

1. In total compensation public sector workers in WI make 8.2% less than private sectors for similar work.
2. The state is projected to have a $127M surplus as of January so this is an imaginary crisis.
3. In January Walker gave about $140M in tax cuts away to corporations.
4. Walker figures that this will save the state $300M over 2 years (look at point 3 for correlation).
5. He skipped the negotation process with the public unions and just did this. They were willing to give concesssions.
6. He wants to decertify the public unions which means they can't negotiate for anything but pay. Not on pension, health care, working conditions or safety.
7. He gave an exception to the decertification to cops & firefighters claiming public safety, yet they were the only groups to support him in the election. Political payback?

You're dealing with real issues and real facts. WF, although having started this thread, is posting Hosni and Lara Logan jokes and posting pics of cheeseheads. Why do people still attempt to engage in discussions with him/her? He/She is the shirley phelps-roper of RF.net.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

You're dealing with real issues and real facts. WF, although having started this thread, is posting Hosni and Lara Logan jokes and posting pics of cheeseheads. Why do people still attempt to engage in discussions with him/her? He/She is the shirley phelps-roper of RF.net.

That line was so 2010 of you.

Why are teachers not going to work? If that was the private sector they would be tossed out on their asses.

I love how they are using children as their puppets. What do these kids know about taxes and collective bargaining?


Is there a law in WI that forbids public sector workers from striking? I know NY has something called the Taylor law

[spoon]

You're dealing with real issues and real facts. WF, although having started this thread, is posting Hosni and Lara Logan jokes and posting pics of cheeseheads. Why do people still attempt to engage in discussions with him/her? He/She is the shirley phelps-roper of RF.net.

Epo just sent me his true response to WF...

http://www.eddypolusa.com/lifes-too-short/uploaded_images/cheesehead-755518.jpg

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Epo just sent me his true response to WF...

http://www.eddypolusa.com/lifes-too-short/uploaded_images/cheesehead-755518.jpg

Anyone wearing a cheese head should not only lose their job, they should be Anderson Coopered

[spoon]

Anyone wearing a cheese head should not only lose their job, they should be Anderson Coopered

you know that really isn't epo I hope

bc epo is black

[Ogre]

I have said it before and I will say it again. The unions will kill the golden goose that is the United States. The Unions in Wisconsin cannot contribute 12% to their own Healthcare instead of 4%? They must have all of their retirement funded while suckers like you and I in the private non-union sector must provide for ALL of our own? SSB for anyone under 45 is a dream. So Madison is now Cario because some media types and political hacks bus in some freeloaders demanding a continuation of free shit? FUCK YOU ALL.

Yeah yeah yeah you all are sooooooooo smart and the rest of the country is soooooooooo uninformed. Keep believing that shit. This will come to a head and if it means that you want to call me names because you have no rational reason to support this shit....well you are a fucktard too.

Oh by the way your enlightened positions are a sham. This means you you faculty lounge liberals. When the streets go dark and the shit hits the fan, we will see how all of you marshmellows handle your backsides. My guess is you will all be crying like bitches in the corner....good luck with that.

[HBox]

I have said it before and I will say it again. The unions will kill the golden goose that is the United States. The Unions in Wisconsin cannot contribute 12% to their own Healthcare instead of 4%? They must have all of their retirement funded while suckers like you and I in the private non-union sector must provide for ALL of our own? SSB for anyone under 45 is a dream. So Madison is now Cario because some media types and political hacks bus in some freeloaders demanding a continuation of free shit? FUCK YOU ALL.

Yeah yeah yeah you all are sooooooooo smart and the rest of the country is soooooooooo uninformed. Keep believing that shit. This will come to a head and if it means that you want to call me names because you have no rational reason to support this shit....well you are a fucktard too.

Oh by the way your enlightened positions are a sham. This means you you faculty lounge liberals. When the streets go dark and the shit hits the fan, we will see how all of you marshmellows handle your backsides. My guess is you will all be crying like bitches in the corner....good luck with that.

I for one can't wait for the street ass-raping apocalypse.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

"... Meticulous attention should be paid to the special relationships and obligations of public servants to the public itself and to the government. All Government employees should realize that the process of collective bargaining, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted into the public service. It has its distinct and insurmountable limitations ... The very nature and purposes of Government make it impossible for ... officials ... to bind the employer ... The employer is the whole people, who speak by means of laws enacted by their representatives ...

"Particularly, I want to emphasize my conviction that militant tactics have no place in the functions of any organization of government employees. Upon employees in the federal service rests the obligation to serve the whole people ... This obligation is paramount ... A strike of public employees manifests nothing less than an intent ... to prevent or obstruct ... Government ... Such action, looking toward the paralysis of Government ... is unthinkable and intolerable."

Those are the words of............


http://libwww.cabrillo.edu/depts/politicalscience/images/fdr2.jpg

[Snoogans]

I have said it before and I will say it again. The unions will kill the golden goose that is the United States. The Unions in Wisconsin cannot contribute 12% to their own Healthcare instead of 4%? They must have all of their retirement funded while suckers like you and I in the private non-union sector must provide for ALL of our own? SSB for anyone under 45 is a dream. So Madison is now Cario because some media types and political hacks bus in some freeloaders demanding a continuation of free shit? FUCK YOU ALL.

Yeah yeah yeah you all are sooooooooo smart and the rest of the country is soooooooooo uninformed. Keep believing that shit. This will come to a head and if it means that you want to call me names because you have no rational reason to support this shit....well you are a fucktard too.

Oh by the way your enlightened positions are a sham. This means you you faculty lounge liberals. When the streets go dark and the shit hits the fan, we will see how all of you marshmellows handle your backsides. My guess is you will all be crying like bitches in the corner....good luck with that.

thats the thing, no one asked them. no one gave a chance to see what they would conceed. he is just tryin to take everything

[Dudeman]

I have said it before and I will say it again. The unions will kill the golden goose that is the United States. The Unions in Wisconsin cannot contribute 12% to their own Healthcare instead of 4%? They must have all of their retirement funded while suckers like you and I in the private non-union sector must provide for ALL of our own? SSB for anyone under 45 is a dream. So Madison is now Cario because some media types and political hacks bus in some freeloaders demanding a continuation of free shit? FUCK YOU ALL.

Yeah yeah yeah you all are sooooooooo smart and the rest of the country is soooooooooo uninformed. Keep believing that shit. This will come to a head and if it means that you want to call me names because you have no rational reason to support this shit....well you are a fucktard too.

Oh by the way your enlightened positions are a sham. This means you you faculty lounge liberals. When the streets go dark and the shit hits the fan, we will see how all of you marshmellows handle your backsides. My guess is you will all be crying like bitches in the corner....good luck with that.

Great! And here's a look at what it will look like when the knuckle-draggers are in charge:

Texas currently rank 47th in the nation in literacy, 49th in verbal SAT scores and 46th in math scores.

But the Texas State Legislature is looking to cut about $4.8 billion over the next two years from the schools.

The birth rate there is the highest in the country... It ranks third in teen pregnancies... And it is No. 1 in repeat teen pregnancies.

“Abstinence works,” said Governor Perry during a televised interview with Evan Smith of The Texas Tribune.

“But we have the third highest teen pregnancy rate among all states in the country,” Smith responded.

“It works,” insisted Perry.

“Can you give me a statistic suggesting it works?” asked Smith.

“I’m just going to tell you from my own personal life. Abstinence works,” said Perry, doggedly. (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/17/opinion/17gailcollins.html?src=me&ref=general)

[WRESTLINGFAN]

And what does pissing money away do? Newark, DC St Louis and Detroit arent examples of success stories

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Since those Democrat senators pussied out of the vote once they return they should be held accountable. They violated their oath of office. I dont know Wisconsins laws on elections but if allowed there should be a special election to replace the pansies who fled the state.

Fire the teachers who called out sick but were well enough to protest and encourage students to march with them. Teachers lose sympathy when they pull shit like that.

[epo]

Since those Democrat senators pussied out of the vote once they return they should be held accountable. They violated their oath of office. I dont know Wisconsins laws on elections but if allowed there should be a special election to replace the pansies who fled the state.

Fire the teachers who called out sick but were well enough to protest and encourage students to march with them. Teachers lose sympathy when they pull shit like that.

A group of politicians stop a bill that would strip public workers their right to collectively bargain and they are villains?

Wrong.

They are fucking heroes. Obey them.

[epo]

I'll lay waste to this thread in depth at a later time, but let me state these quick points:

1. In total compensation public sector workers in WI make 8.2% less than private sectors for similar work.
2. The state is projected to have a $127M surplus as of January so this is an imaginary crisis.
3. In January Walker gave about $140M in tax cuts away to corporations.
4. Walker figures that this will save the state $300M over 2 years (look at point 3 for correlation).
5. He skipped the negotation process with the public unions and just did this. They were willing to give concesssions.
6. He wants to decertify the public unions which means they can't negotiate for anything but pay. Not on pension, health care, working conditions or safety.
7. He gave an exception to the decertification to cops & firefighters claiming public safety, yet they were the only groups to support him in the election. Political payback?

I've got to go now, we've got flaming bags of poo to put on his steps.

I have said it before and I will say it again. The unions will kill the golden goose that is the United States. The Unions in Wisconsin cannot contribute 12% to their own Healthcare instead of 4%? They must have all of their retirement funded while suckers like you and I in the private non-union sector must provide for ALL of our own? SSB for anyone under 45 is a dream. So Madison is now Cario because some media types and political hacks bus in some freeloaders demanding a continuation of free shit? FUCK YOU ALL.

Yeah yeah yeah you all are sooooooooo smart and the rest of the country is soooooooooo uninformed. Keep believing that shit. This will come to a head and if it means that you want to call me names because you have no rational reason to support this shit....well you are a fucktard too.

Oh by the way your enlightened positions are a sham. This means you you faculty lounge liberals. When the streets go dark and the shit hits the fan, we will see how all of you marshmellows handle your backsides. My guess is you will all be crying like bitches in the corner....good luck with that.

Did you bother to read any of my post about the situation, or did you just want to go on an idiotic right-wing rant?

[underdog]

I have said it before and I will say it again. The unions will kill the golden goose that is the United States. The Unions in Wisconsin cannot contribute 12% to their own Healthcare instead of 4%? They must have all of their retirement funded while suckers like you and I in the private non-union sector must provide for ALL of our own? SSB for anyone under 45 is a dream. So Madison is now Cario because some media types and political hacks bus in some freeloaders demanding a continuation of free shit? FUCK YOU ALL.

Yeah yeah yeah you all are sooooooooo smart and the rest of the country is soooooooooo uninformed. Keep believing that shit. This will come to a head and if it means that you want to call me names because you have no rational reason to support this shit....well you are a fucktard too.

Oh by the way your enlightened positions are a sham. This means you you faculty lounge liberals. When the streets go dark and the shit hits the fan, we will see how all of you marshmellows handle your backsides. My guess is you will all be crying like bitches in the corner....good luck with that.

Exactly!

I agree with you, Ogre. Fuck all the workers and the unions! We should eliminate both workers and unions! The corporations and government will work much better and have fewer problems if we got rid of all workers and unions! Who needs people to run these systems!? Let's get rid of everyone!

[underdog]

Did you bother to read any of my post about the situation, or did you just want to go on an idiotic right-wing rant?

Have you ever seen any of his other posts?

[spoon]

And what does pissing money away do? Newark, DC St Louis and Detroit arent examples of success stories

Yes, losing almost all their industrial capacity had nothing to do with it. Factories in and around Newark and Patterson were jettisoned all over the world to countries with disgustingly workers rights and wages so low it's comical to help a few CEO's get another country club membership, a new maid and slightly higher dividends/stock price. What business geniuses they are. Like HP's wonder woman ceo the republicans so love to suck ass with.

[spoon]

Since those Democrat senators pussied out of the vote once they return they should be held accountable. They violated their oath of office. I dont know Wisconsins laws on elections but if allowed there should be a special election to replace the pansies who fled the state.

Fire the teachers who called out sick but were well enough to protest and encourage students to march with them. Teachers lose sympathy when they pull shit like that.

Only from assholes buddy. Complete fucking assholes.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

A group of politicians stop a bill that would strip public workers their right to collectively bargain and they are villains?

Wrong.

They are fucking heroes. Obey them.

They are fucking cowards. They are obligated to fulfill their duties as mandated by the state constitution.


The public sector unions can still bargain for their salaries.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Bust all public employee unions. Every last one of them. The leadership of most of these unions are infested with thugs who use mafia tactics to roll spineless politicians to get what they do not deserve. Bust them all up.

Partys over. Taxpayers have had enough subsidizing these fucking parasites retirements. These people in Wisconsin are losing support and are pissing off the taxpayers even more. They bite the hands that feed them.

[BustahMyTool]

I'm sure Epo will be along soon to lay waste to this thread, so I'll just post my favorite Scott Walker song here:

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/RnLfST5Avqs" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

great song

[BustahMyTool]

strange Scott Walker never got more fans

[BustahMyTool]

guess he is just one of those people who is a huge influence but never gets much personality

[BustahMyTool]

Like the Velvet Underground

[BustahMyTool]

or Pixies

[BustahMyTool]

or Pink Floyd

[WRESTLINGFAN]

The Democrat senators want to play this game? Fine All thats needed to pass is 1 Dem vote. One of the GOP senators should switch parties so theres a vote.

I see all the rent a mobs are out in full force including Obama's Organizing for America

Ahhhh Americas yutes they are our future

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/cufj2d8Co5A" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Only from assholes buddy. Complete fucking assholes.

Like name calling is really going to champion the cause :lol:

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Yes, losing almost all their industrial capacity had nothing to do with it. Factories in and around Newark and Patterson were jettisoned all over the world to countries with disgustingly workers rights and wages so low it's comical to help a few CEO's get another country club membership, a new maid and slightly higher dividends/stock price. What business geniuses they are. Like HP's wonder woman ceo the republicans so love to suck ass with.

Jeff Immelt continues to outsource. Thats Ok though he's in bed with Obama. Notice Big Eddie on MSNBC won't call out his boss?

[BustahMyTool]

just happy to see all the Scott Walker love

[BustahMyTool]

Scott Walker deserves all the praise. The man is a genius

[BustahMyTool]

there never would have been a David Bowie without Scott Walker

[Snoogans]

Like name calling is really going to champion the cause :lol:

its a hell of alot better than just spouting incorrect nonsense about things and hoping people listen

[BustahMyTool]

My favorite Scott Walker is Scott 4

[WRESTLINGFAN]

its a hell of alot better than just spouting incorrect nonsense about things and hoping people listen

Whats nonsense? Teachers are supposed to be in the classrooms not out in the streets and especially sicking out then going to protest

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Haven't we learned anything from the Giffords shooting? Words have meaning. What happened to all the talk of civility?

Check out the dumbass at 31 seconds in. He has the sign upside down


<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/J-O-ngDdKZw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Snoogans]

Whats nonsense? Teachers are supposed to be in the classrooms not out in the streets and especially sicking out then going to protest

Actually, the teachers agreed to be in the classroom educating students during the collective bargaining agreements. they agreed to teach for that compensation, which they have had taken from them without even a chance at compromise. you dont live up to the agreements, neither do we.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Actually, the teachers agreed to be in the classroom educating students during the collective bargaining agreements. they agreed to teach for that compensation, which they have had taken from them without even a chance at compromise. you dont live up to the agreements, neither do we.

Teachers agreed to be public servants at the behest of the taxpayer when they sign their contracts.

Face it. The well has run dry. This childish attitude of public servants is the reason why the country is turning against them.

[Snoogans]

Teachers agreed to be public servants at the behest of the taxpayer.

yea agreed to a certain compensation package to take the roll as a public servant. Now, without any bargaining, the package they agreed to has been changed. there by, they now HAVENT agreed to do it.

They arent fuckin slaves asshole. They agreed to that cause of the compensation package.

[Snoogans]

Teachers agreed to be public servants at the behest of the taxpayer when they sign their contracts.

Face it. The well has run dry. This childish attitude of public servants is the reason why the country is turning against them.

The well has run dry because the people who run the system misuse and misspend. Its not cause they pay too much to the teachers or the unions. Its cause instead of realizing they have to pay that and not spending money on other dumb shit, they spend on dumb shit, give terrible tax breaks to billionaires, and then cry poverty.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

yea agreed to a certain compensation package to take the roll as a public servant. Now, without any bargaining, the package they agreed to has been changed. there by, they now HAVENT agreed to do it.

They arent fuckin slaves asshole. They agreed to that cause of the compensation package.

You public servants are entitled to your wages only. Why should anyone subsidize your lavish pensions and benefits. You have been programmed to feel entitled. Your selfishness and me 1st attitude is sickening


Keep up with the name calling you people are losing support. Everyone else has to sacrifice but you public servants feel that you shouldnt.

[Snoogans]

You public servants are entitled to your wages only. Why should anyone subsidize your lavish pensions and benefits. You have been programmed to feel entitled. Your selfishness and me 1st attitude is sickening


Keep up with the name calling you people are losing support. Everyone else has to sacrifice but you public servants feel that you shouldnt.

did you even read the story? They were willing to sacrafice and he never even talked to them.

And my selfishness and me first attitude? How about you talk about what I said. I addressed why the current teachers walked out. They took the jobs on the agreement that they had these benefits. Whether you or me or anyone thinks they should or shouldnt, thats for future discussion. the point is they walked out of work now cause the agreement they accepted to take the job was changed. You arent even arguing the same point anymore.

Do you really wanna be like tenbatz? If so, you are doing an awful job. You are supposed to want epo to be your friend.

But just like him, you arent smart enough to change the point mid argument and get away with it. We notice. Go home now, i think you have some reading to do.

and im not a public servant asshole. Im not in a union, and my job has nothing to do with tax payers. Just cause it helps you feel better to assume im just sayin this cause i dont want to be effected, im not, at all. this would have zero effect on me. Im making the points because they are right. Not because of bias.

Just because all your points are from some bias doesnt mean you can assume all ours are. Thats why you are stupid and we call you names. Not to insult, but because the names apply. You are stupid, you are an asshole, and you are beginning to make me thing you are legitimately learning disabled

[Donnie Iris]

You public servants are entitled to your wages only. Why should anyone subsidize your lavish pensions and benefits. You have been programmed to feel entitled. Your selfishness and me 1st attitude is sickening


Keep up with the name calling you people are losing support. Everyone else has to sacrifice but you public servants feel that you shouldnt.

Broad generalizations=Vast intelligence

You're smart!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

did you even read the story? They were willing to sacrafice and he never even talked to them.

And my selfishness and me first attitude? How about you talk about what I said. I addressed why the current teachers walked out. They took the jobs on the agreement that they had these benefits. Whether you or me or anyone thinks they should or shouldnt, thats for future discussion. the point is they walked out of work now cause the agreement they accepted to take the job was changed. You arent even arguing the same point anymore.

Do you really wanna be like tenbatz? If so, you are doing an awful job. You are supposed to want epo to be your friend.

But just like him, you arent smart enough to change the point mid argument and get away with it. We notice. Go home now, i think you have some reading to do.

and im not a public servant asshole. Im not in a union, and my job has nothing to do with tax payers. Just cause it helps you feel better to assume im just sayin this cause i dont want to be effected, im not, at all. this would have zero effect on me. Im making the points because they are right. Not because of bias.

Just because all your points are from some bias doesnt mean you can assume all ours are. Thats why you are stupid and we call you names. Not to insult, but because the names apply. You are stupid, you are an asshole, and you are beginning to make me thing you are legitimately learning disabled

They called out sick and are showing up to protest. Thats the point. If this was tried in the private sector they would have been tossed out on their asses. I know a sickout isnt a strike but its the same mob like mentality.

Would they spend as much effort teaching as they do protesting (which is costing the taxpayer even more money), maybe America’s children would learn more, and have higher test scores when compared to students from other countries.

Self-serving public parasites. How about paying into their retirement pensions like everybody else?

Ingrates.



Your name calling means nothing. If it makes you feel better to whine like a child then go ahead. The Bill is going to get passed!!! Wheres the bias? I said that they have the right to bargain for salary but thats it. Sometimes contracts need to be renegotiated. These are bad economic times.

[Snoogans]

They called out sick and are showing up to protest. Thats the point. If this was tried in the private sector they would have been tossed out on their asses. I know a sickout isnt a strike but its the same mob like mentality.


Your name calling means nothing. If it makes you feel better to whine like a child then go ahead. The Bill is going to get passed!!! Wheres the bias? I said that they have the right to bargain for salary but thats it. Sometimes contracts need to be renegotiated. These are bad economic times.

the bill will never get passed cause they wont vote til enough repubs flip

im going to attempt to seriously address this one more time:
THEY OFFERED TO RENEGOTIATE. THE GOVERNOR DIDNT. HE THREW IT ALL OUT AND IS TRYIN TO TAKE AWAY THERE ABILITY TO NEGOTIATE. THEY EVEN SAID THEY WOULD MAKE CONCESSIONS AND HE WOULDNT EVEN TALK TO THEM. where is the renegotiation? The governor is the one refusing to negotiate, not the people. THE FACT YOU DONT UNDERSTAND THIS IS WHY YOU ARE A MORON.

And thats where the bias is. Instead of you actually reading the facts, you are seeing what you want. The people walked out because the governor WONT negotiate AT ALL. It is basically just like a strike, and they have the RIGHT TO DO THAT. If it wasnt their right, they would be in jail. They arent, so you are wrong.

And incase you didnt know, you get to bargain for more than your salary in private jobs. You think private companies offer benefits and things like that cause they are nice and want to? NO. THEY WANT MONEY. They offer them because they know that no qualified people would take the jobs if they didnt get those benefits. Nothing is just about salary. So you arguing they get to argue their salary, as if its some great point, MEANS THEY ARE GETTING SCREWED.

Do you even have a job? Do you know anything?

[Snoogans]

Self-serving public parasites. How about paying into their retirement pensions like everybody else?

Ingrates.



.

Wait, who is doing the name calling and looking childish? And by everyone else, you mean like cops and firefighters? Oh wait, they dont. And they arent going to lose that right in this bill because why? Oh yea, cause they endorsed the governor. So now he is doing political favors on top of tryin to fuck people. What ingrates!!!!

and the reason they dont pay into their benefits and pensions is because THEY GET PAID LESS. they make 8% less, so the benefits make up the difference.

AND PRIVATE COMPANIES MATCH ON 401K. SO NOBODY COMPLETELY PAYS THEIR OWN RETIREMENT. THE FACT THAT PRIVATE EMPLOYEES MAKE MORE MONEY MAKES UP FOR THE FACT THEY PAY PART OF THEIR BENEFITS. AND ITS A REALLY SMALL PART

I paid around 89 bucks a month for total benefits at Prestige Motors. Thats around 15% of what my coverage actually cost.

They make 8% less and year and their coverage would cost about 89 bucks a month to them. Im sure that 89 a month is way less than the 8% of salary. So the public employees are still CHEAPER.

[KC2OSO]

there never would have been a David Bowie without Scott Walker

Who can forget this
http://lh4.googleusercontent.com/public/4TaGhuWG5K1OnBTD-2Df__esjD_nzUjoLvRoD8-0x0-f6hUPXA2R4ksuRb96XInlOtDOeXGk77kEb6JYm6SyMHmYtQPZk cCZq39PaRUhU_9EE0X5eV0N0iJDgHtPitBXGc551PEdD01E6f0 mgZ0

[Snoogans]

all the facts are here. WF will never understand, so I give up.

Enjoy your day, you mentally disabled asshole

[WRESTLINGFAN]

the bill will never get passed cause they wont vote til enough repubs flip

im going to attempt to seriously address this one more time:
THEY OFFERED TO RENEGOTIATE. THE GOVERNOR DIDNT. HE THREW IT ALL OUT AND IS TRYIN TO TAKE AWAY THERE ABILITY TO NEGOTIATE. THEY EVEN SAID THEY WOULD MAKE CONCESSIONS AND HE WOULDNT EVEN TALK TO THEM. where is the renegotiation? The governor is the one refusing to negotiate, not the people. THE FACT YOU DONT UNDERSTAND THIS IS WHY YOU ARE A MORON.

And thats where the bias is. Instead of you actually reading the facts, you are seeing what you want. The people walked out because the governor WONT negotiate AT ALL. It is basically just like a strike, and they have the RIGHT TO DO THAT. If it wasnt their right, they would be in jail. They arent, so you are wrong.

And incase you didnt know, you get to bargain for more than your salary in private jobs. You think private companies offer benefits and things like that cause they are nice and want to? NO. THEY WANT MONEY. They offer them because they know that no qualified people would take the jobs if they didnt get those benefits. Nothing is just about salary. So you arguing they get to argue their salary, as if its some great point, MEANS THEY ARE GETTING SCREWED.

Do you even have a job? Do you know anything?

Hes not going to negotiate because THE STATE IS BROKE!!!! WHATS THERE TO OFFER????? THATS THE FACT!!!!

You people think that money magically appears and it can be doled out.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

all the facts are here. WF will never understand, so I give up.

Enjoy your day, you mentally disabled asshole

Workers of the world unite !!!!!

[Snoogans]

Hes not going to negotiate because THE STATE IS BROKE!!!! WHATS THERE TO OFFER????? THATS THE FACT!!!!

You people think that money magically appears and it can be doled out.

he is tryin to take shit away to save money. they offered to make concessions to save money. he refused to even hear them. but then you call all the workers assholes for not being willing to renegotiate. this is why you are a dumb cock. Now ill leave you be til th8e next time you start bashing immigrants or some other dumb BS. Have a good day, i really hope you get hit by a bus on your way to unemployment

[WRESTLINGFAN]

he is tryin to take shit away to save money. they offered to make concessions to save money. he refused to even hear them. but then you call all the workers assholes for not being willing to renegotiate. this is why you are a dumb cock. Now ill leave you be til th8e next time you start bashing immigrants or some other dumb BS. Have a good day, i really hope you get hit by a bus on your way to unemployment

You know nothing about me .

Public servants are oblijed to show up for work. Now if they want to protest, dock their pay

Youre too stupid to realize that I am against illegal aliens. Not immigrants.

Speaking of buses enjoy your ride on that short one.

[Snoogans]

You know nothing about me .

Public servants are oblijed to show up for work. Now if they want to protest, dock their pay

Youre too stupid to realize that I am against illegal aliens. Not immigrants.

Speaking of buses enjoy your ride on that short one.

Why do you suck so many dicks? Did your uncle make you touch it when you were young?

[Furtherman]

Hes not going to negotiate because THE STATE IS BROKE!!!! WHATS THERE TO OFFER????? THATS THE FACT!!!!

You people think that money magically appears and it can be doled out.

The state is not broke. The state's fiscal bureau says the state could end up with a surplus, but it was the Governor who pushed through tax cut policies in his first days in office. He rushed through spending for special interests groups - $140 million - in January. The people that helped him get elected. The people of the state came second in this case, and now they're pissed.

Good for them.




And settle down WF and Snoogans... this isn't Wisconsin.

[KnoxHarrington]

he is tryin to take shit away to save money. they offered to make concessions to save money. he refused to even hear them. but then you call all the workers assholes for not being willing to renegotiate. this is why you are a dumb cock. Now ill leave you be til th8e next time you start bashing immigrants or some other dumb BS. Have a good day, i really hope you get hit by a bus on your way to unemployment

Public workers are an easy target because dumb Fox News watching motherfuckers have this bullshit notion that they're paid a lot more than workers in similar positions in the private sector (they're not) and that they get paid to do jack shit (actually either work for the gov't, or talk to someone who does, and you'll learn the truth about that.) So a grandstanding douche like Scott Walker can make easy political points with idiots by saying he's going to get them under control.

But as you've noted, busting the public sector union gives Walker a lot of leverage to start fucking private sector workers too. And it's such short-term, cheap political thinking, because it makes Wisconsin far less attractive to workers and employers. But, hey, who gives a fuck as long as the hayseeds vote for you, right Scott?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Why do you suck so many dicks? Did your uncle make you touch it when you were young?

In the snoogans household thats considered a holiday



Thou protesteth too much. walk outs, or whatever does not make us taxpayers that receive no payment from government employment sympathic to their plight. Then when they use the children to help them protest, shame on them So now Madison schools are closed so teachers can go protest. They will lose no pay because the day will have to made up later. Parents had to scramble for childcare arrangements and will have to adjust summer vacation because school will go longer into the summer because of the selfish me first attitudes of the teachers.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

The state is not broke. The state's fiscal bureau says the state could end up with a surplus, but it was the Governor who pushed through tax cut policies in his first days in office. He rushed through spending for special interests groups - $140 million - in January. The people that helped him get elected. The people of the state came second in this case, and now they're pissed.

Good for them.




And settle down WF and Snoogans... this isn't Wisconsin.

Im not the one reverting to pathetic name calling. He's acting like his benefits are being cut

[Snoogans]

In the snoogans household thats considered a holiday



Thou protesteth too much. walk outs, or whatever does not make us taxpayers that receive no payment from government employment sympathic to their plight. Then when they use the children to help them protest, shame on them So now Madison schools are closed so teachers can go protest. They will lose no pay because the day will have to made up later. Parents had to scramble for childcare arrangements and will have to adjust summer vacation because school will go longer into the summer because of the selfish me first attitudes of the teachers.

oh im sorry. I didnt know you spoke for every tax payer in the world. And yea, most times when there is a threat of strike and things from unions, they arent sided with by a great majority cause its usually over stuff like raises and more benefits. If they ever announced that teachers or other public workers were just being stripped of all benefits, yea most NJ and NY private workers would be pissed and feel for those people. You just dont cause you are biased and a jerkoff

[WRESTLINGFAN]

oh im sorry. I didnt know you spoke for every tax payer in the world. And yea, most times when there is a threat of strike and things from unions, they arent sided with by a great majority cause its usually over stuff like raises and more benefits. If they ever announced that teachers or other public workers were just being stripped of all benefits, yea most NJ and NY private workers would be pissed and feel for those people. You just dont cause you are biased and a jerkoff

A majority of the taxpayers have had it subsidizing retirements and healthcare benefits.


I dont know much about Wisconsins laws on public servants. However in NY they have the Taylor law which forbids striking. Toussaint pulled this in 2005 and the TWU was fined severely

These unions dont give a damn about "the children" They ar ejust used as props Its their union, the politicians 1st and screw everyone else.


As shown here
http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/100108249.html


Teachers paying an additional 6% into their own pension/benefit fund (which they will get back) is somehow lost wages???

[El Mudo]

A majority of the taxpayers have had it subsidizing retirements and healthcare benefits.


I dont know much about Wisconsins laws on public servants. However in NY they have the Taylor law which forbids striking. Toussaint pulled this in 2005 and the TWU was fined severely

These unions dont give a damn about "the children" They ar ejust used as props Its their union, the politicians 1st and screw everyone else.


As shown here
http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/100108249.html


Teachers paying an additional 6% into their own pension/benefit fund (which they will get back) is somehow lost wages???



I like having good teachers. And people to put out fires. And officers to police the streets. And people to plow the streets when it snows.

[epo]

The Democrat senators want to play this game? Fine All thats needed to pass is 1 Dem vote. One of the GOP senators should switch parties so theres a vote.

I see all the rent a mobs are out in full force including Obama's Organizing for America

Ahhhh Americas yutes they are our future

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/cufj2d8Co5A" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

You are dead wrong about your facts. They do not need one Democratic vote to pass the bill. They need 20 senators to have a legal quorum. There are 19 GOP senators and 14 Democrats. Hence, with 14 Senators out of state, there is no quorum, hence no vote.

Stop proving how ignorant you really are.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

You are dead wrong about your facts. They do not need one Democratic vote to pass the bill. They need 20 senators to have a legal quorum. There are 19 GOP senators and 14 Democrats. Hence, with 14 Senators out of state, there is no quorum, hence no vote.

Stop proving how ignorant you really are.

My bad about that. Im wrong.

However Why do Democrat Senators hate democracy?


They can't hide forever.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I like having good teachers. And people to put out fires. And officers to police the streets. And people to plow the streets when it snows.

So would people in the outer boros of NYC

[epo]

My bad about that. Im wrong.

However Why do Democrat Senators hate democracy?

They can't hide forever.

They love democracy hence the move.

It's hilarious that a party that bitched about a federal bill that took 6 months of open debate was "jammed down our throat", yet a bill to strip worker rights with no public debate was put up for vote within 4 days?

That's not jamming it down our throats, that's fucking workers in the ass.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I hope all the public sector unions spend every last dime on lawsuits, etc then in 2012 They wont be able to contribute to Obamas campaign in 2012

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Uh Oh!! The thugs are calling in the heavy guns now. He's making an appearance tomorrow


http://la912er.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/richard-trumka-2009-9-15-11-11-5.jpg

[Dude!]

I like having good teachers. And people to put out fires. And officers to police the streets. And people to plow the streets when it snows.

so do I
but I think they should contribute
to the costs of their health-care
and retirement plans
like I do

[BustahMyTool]

Dude!

my favorite poster
good to
see you
buddy

[El Mudo]

so do I
but I think they should contribute
to the costs of their health-care
and retirement plans
like I do



And they were willing to make concessions on that front, but they never got the chance to even go to the bargaining table. You don't just force workers, who have bargained an agreement collectively in good faith, to do something you want them to do. That's the very definition of fucking tyranny.

[foodcourtdruide]

A majority of the taxpayers have had it subsidizing retirements and healthcare benefits.


These are working people. I seriously doubt a majority of taxpayers in this country believe that people who work should not have healthcare benefits or the ability to retire.

[El Mudo]

Here's the bigger issue.

Why do you hate unions so much? Why would you protect the powerful, and not the powerless?

Blue collar, unionized labor in private sector in this country is pretty much already dead. Why strip that right away from the public sector?

For all this talk about "tax dollars", why isn't anyone pointing out that tax rates are at their lowest since the 1950s? (http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/taxes/2010-05-10-taxes_N.htm) And not only did the State just cut taxes, we just cut them AGAIN at the federal level when Obama decided to keep the Bush Tax Cuts. Why would anyone be shocked that there are budget crises all over the fucking country at the moment at all levels of government?

The biggest problem with this country is that we want the Government to do everything, but God forbid we actually pay for it. It will never cease to boggle my mind.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

These are working people. I seriously doubt a majority of taxpayers in this country believe that people who work should not have healthcare benefits or the ability to retire.

They want public sector workers to contribute to their own retirement and healthcare.

[underdog]

Why do you retards keep arguing with wrestlingfan?

[foodcourtdruide]

They want public sector workers to contribute to their own retirement and healthcare.

This doesn't make sense to me. If part of their compensation package is retirement and healthcare, how are they not?

[foodcourtdruide]

Why do you retards keep arguing with wrestlingfan?

I have no idea.

[foodcourtdruide]

Here's the bigger issue.

Why do you hate unions so much? Why would you protect the powerful, and not the powerless?

Blue collar, unionized labor in private sector in this country is pretty much already dead. Why strip that right away from the public sector?

For all this talk about "tax dollars", why isn't anyone pointing out that tax rates are at their lowest since the 1950s? (http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/taxes/2010-05-10-taxes_N.htm) And not only did the State just cut taxes, we just cut them AGAIN at the federal level when Obama decided to keep the Bush Tax Cuts. Why would anyone be shocked that there are budget crises all over the fucking country at the moment at all levels of government?

The biggest problem with this country is that we want the Government to do everything, but God forbid we actually pay for it. It will never cease to boggle my mind.

The funny thing is, I think unions in this country need major, major reform. ESPECIALLY in the private sector. However, people like WF seem to just hate unions because they don't want working class people to have proper representation. I agree with you, mind boggling.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

This doesn't make sense to me. If part of their compensation package is retirement and healthcare, how are they not?

Contracts can't be renegotiated, amended etc?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Public sector unions exposed

http://www.lewrockwell.com/block/block54.html

[El Mudo]

The funny thing is, I think unions in this country need major, major reform. ESPECIALLY in the private sector. However, people like WF seem to just hate unions because they don't want working class people to have proper representation. I agree with you, mind boggling.

It's not a question just of reform, it's that they just don't have the bodies anymore, especially in the private sector. (http://economics.about.com/od/laborinamerica/a/union_decline.htm)

The shift to service industry employment, where unions traditionally have been weaker, also has been a serious problem for labor unions. Women, young people, temporary and part-time workers -- all less receptive to union membership -- hold a large proportion of the new jobs created in recent years. And much American industry has migrated to the southern and western parts of the United States, regions that have a weaker union tradition than do the northern or the eastern regions.

It's the McDonalds model of business. You keep the rate of turnover high with low wages and few benefits, and pass the "savings" on to your customers. Or you just move your shit to Mexico or Asia where people will work for a dollar an hour.

[foodcourtdruide]

Contracts can't be renegotiated, amended etc?

I thought the issue was they tried to make concessions but Walker prevented them?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

the Democratic Senators in WI are cowards. They are behaving like children. They were elected by the people of that state and swore an oath to do their jobs. Instead, they have chosen to hide like children because they no longer like the game.

[foodcourtdruide]

the Democratic Senators in WI are cowards. They are behaving like children. They were elected by the people of that state and swore an oath to do their jobs. Instead, they have chosen to hide like children because they no longer like the game.

Yes, you've already said this. Thanks for the random thought.

[Donnie Iris]

Why do you retards keep arguing with wrestlingfan?

Thank you.

I think I'm going to copy this for future re-posting.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

http://lacrossetribune.com/news/article_dbfe5872-3665-11e0-94e7-001cc4c002e0.html

"But the governor said Friday that he did not have 15 months to negotiate with the union, the amount of time it typically takes for the state and its unions to agree on contracts."

"Walker said he would likely have had to fire 1,500 people and cut about 200,000 children off Medicaid to make up the difference. He said those numbers get even worse going forward, perhaps costing more than 5,500 people their jobs in the next biennial budget."


Why do public sector unions hate poor people?

[foodcourtdruide]

http://lacrossetribune.com/news/article_dbfe5872-3665-11e0-94e7-001cc4c002e0.html

"But the governor said Friday that he did not have 15 months to negotiate with the union, the amount of time it typically takes for the state and its unions to agree on contracts."


Why do public sector unions hate poor people?

Wow, that is the worst excuse ever.

[El Mudo]

Public sector unions exposed

http://www.lewrockwell.com/block/block54.html

I've read some dumb articles in my time, but that could possibly be the dumbest article I've ever read. Ever.

According to our friends on the left, the reason we need unions is because without them, employers would grind employees into the ground. Were organized labor to disappear, wages would plummet; workers would have to work on Sundays ("If you don't come in Sunday, don't bother coming in Monday"), tip their hat to their bosses, and suffer all sorts of other indignities, including losing virtually all improvements in working conditions made over the last century.

Yes, because there's no history (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pullman_Strike) of labor violence (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Railroad_Strike_of_1877) in this country at all (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harlan_County,_USA). None whatsoever. (http://www.lutins.org/labor.html) We can trust management to hire us at a living wage.

Wages cannot long be higher than this amount, or the company will lose money on every worker it hires. For example, if compensation is $10, and revenue taken in due to the efforts of the worker is $7, then the firm loses $3 every hour the man is on the shop floor.

Which means they can't sell a high volume of shit at low low prices, so they cut labor costs instead. Walmart.

If wages were really set by employers, why is it that employees such as Shaquille O'Neal, Brad Pitt, Brittney Spears and Bill Gates all earn mega bucks? Generosity? No, the reason they do is because their productivity (ability to fill seats in sports arenas, movie theaters, concert halls in the case of the first three, and manage a large company for the latter) is very, very high. Did their present employers not pay them satisfactorily (that is, in accordance with productivity) others would gladly jump in and do so.

Craziness that he brings up entertainers. Secondly, Gates owned his own company. Thirdly, they all had a skill that they exploited to make their mega bucks. Not all workers are skilled, which is why they need to be protected by something like a Union.

When unions artificially boost wages above this stipulated $7 productivity, they look good in the short run. But in the long run they create business failures and rust belts. Just as you cannot shove the water in the bathtub in a downward direction without slopping some of it out onto the floor, it is impossible for any substantial length of time to maintain wages above productivity levels. (Actually, the former is a mere physical impossibility; the latter, in addition, violates the economic laws of logic, or praxeology.)

Bullshit. What creates rust belts and business failures are cutting labor costs. When people can't get a job with a decent wage, they move away to some place they can. When businesses want to cut labor costs, they pack up their shit and move to some place that costs them a dollar an hour for labor, which, again, puts people out of work.

If organized labor is really the only institution that stands between the workingman and abject poverty, how is it that real wages have been increasing, while the rate of unionization has been declining over the last half century (see table 1)? Why is it the some industries that have never come within a million miles of unions (computers, banking, accounting) pay very high wages, often in excess of that earned by the rank and file? Given that they are at the mercy of the capitalist pigs, should they not have been ground into the dust? How can it be that the south, which is the least unionized part of the country, is the fastest growing? In what way account for the fact that countries where western style unionism is all but unknown (Hong Kong, Singapore, Japan) are economic powerhouses, with standards of living envied in many places on the globe?

Because not every worker is skilled. Those are the ones that need to be protected. People are fleeing south because all the manufacturing jobs have left the Northeast and Midwest.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

In case anyone missed this most important topic from the article


Currently most state employees pay nothing toward their pensions

[epo]

In case anyone missed this most important topic from the article


Currently most state employees pay nothing toward their pensions

You missed this fact in Wisconsin:

State employees in Wisconsin receive 8.2% LESS in total compensation than their private sector peers. "Total compensation" means the combination of Pay, benefits and pension.
Stop following the talking points and cherry picking one component of compensation from the complete package.

Your point is again invalid.

[El Mudo]

In case anyone missed this most important topic from the article


Currently most state employees pay nothing toward their pensions


And as we've said over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again, THEY WERE WILLING TO MAKE CONCESSIONS BUT HE REFUSED TO NEGOTIATE AND THREATENED TO CALL OUT THE NATIONAL GUARD.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

UAW vs Non union automakers.

Who is doing better in the US?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

You missed this fact in Wisconsin:

State employees in Wisconsin receive 8.2% LESS in total compensation than their private sector peers. "Total compensation" means the combination of Pay, benefits and pension.
Stop following the talking points and cherry picking one component of compensation from the complete package.

Your point is again invalid.

Guess you never heard of overtime?

http://www.jsonline.com/watchdog/watchdogreports/93866069.html


Did anyone force them to take state jobs? Lets see how many have luxury cars, LCD TVs cell phones etc. All those are not necessities.

[epo]

Guess you never heard of overtime?

http://www.jsonline.com/watchdog/watchdogreports/93866069.html

Did anyone force them to take state jobs? Lets see how many have luxury cars, LCD TVs cell phones etc. All those are not necessities.

Ok, lets put this on the line:

My sister is a state worker. She has a degree in criminal justice and works for the department of corrections. Her job requires that she works with murderers, rapists and pedophiles on a daily basis. She literally has men who threaten to rape and murder her & often she has the delight of having human shit thrown at her. She deals with society's scum.

She has not had a pay raise in 3 years due to the State budget, to which her union agreed to because that's how we do it in Wisconsin. Now for the priviledge of working for the state, this new Governor of Wisconsin wants her to:

1. Contribute to her pension, which comes out of her net pay.
2. Double her health care payment, which comes out of her net pay.
3. Lose her collective bargaining rights, which means that she will have ZERO say in her schedule, work conditions and work safety.

This was all proposed without bringing her union to the table. This was all done without her voice.

And for this right to serve, this Governor would like to drive my sister, a single mom with a deadbeat ex-husband to the poverty line.

Don't you ever fucking dare tell me that state workers in Wisconsin are lazy, living the high-life or aren't doing their share.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Ok, lets put this on the line:

My sister is a state worker. She has a degree in criminal justice and works for the department of corrections. Her job requires that she works with murderers, rapists and pedophiles on a daily basis. She literally has men who threaten to rape and murder her & often she has the delight of having human shit thrown at her. She deals with society's scum.

She has not had a pay raise in 3 years due to the State budget, to which her union agreed to because that's how we do it in Wisconsin. Now for the priviledge of working for the state, this new Governor of Wisconsin wants her to:

1. Contribute to her pension, which comes out of her net pay.
2. Double her health care payment, which comes out of her net pay.
3. Lose her collective bargaining rights, which means that she will have ZERO say in her schedule, work conditions and work safety.

This was all proposed without bringing her union to the table. This was all done without her voice.

And for this right to serve, this Governor would like to drive my sister, a single mom with a deadbeat ex-husband to the poverty line.

Don't you ever fucking dare tell me that state workers in Wisconsin are lazy, living the high-life or aren't doing their share.

And there are tons of other people like your sister in the private sector who have been taking a beating over the last 3 years. Hers isn't the exception.

While her situation is different, there are many lazy overpaid bloated bean counters who fill redundant positions.


Sorry to break the news to you but a job is not a right either in the private or public sector. I know FDR proposed a 2nd bill of rights but that meant nothing.

[Dude!]

i hope walker goes reagan
and fires them all
and replaces with non-union
workers like the patco thing

[sailor]

On the face of it, this just sounds unconstitutional to me. Epo, I don't get why your sister wouldn't have control over without collective bargaining. Heck, from your comparison to the private sector it sounds like the union may have failed her and the rest.

[underdog]

And as we've said over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again, THEY WERE WILLING TO MAKE CONCESSIONS BUT HE REFUSED TO NEGOTIATE AND THREATENED TO CALL OUT THE NATIONAL GUARD.

Why do you retards keep arguing with wrestlingfan?

.

[foodcourtdruide]

While her situation is different, there are many lazy overpaid bloated bean counters who fill redundant positions.



This is just something you are making up to justify your argument. Here's a newsflash: Not all workers in the private sector are perfect either.

And while that doesn't impact your wallet in something as simple as taxes, it still ends up costing you money.

The way to handle some bad workers is not by taking workers rights away. I can't believe a working class American thinks like you, but apparently there are many that do. It's baffling to me.

[Snoogans]

http://lacrossetribune.com/news/article_dbfe5872-3665-11e0-94e7-001cc4c002e0.html

"But the governor said Friday that he did not have 15 months to negotiate with the union, the amount of time it typically takes for the state and its unions to agree on contracts."

"Walker said he would likely have had to fire 1,500 people and cut about 200,000 children off Medicaid to make up the difference. He said those numbers get even worse going forward, perhaps costing more than 5,500 people their jobs in the next biennial budget."


Why do public sector unions hate poor people?

or he woulda had to not give 140 million in tax cuts to rich businesses who donated to his campaign.

[Furtherman]

Snoogans, I told you to settle down on the last page, but after the nonsense WF has been shoveling post after post, have at him.

[sailor]

Snoogans, I told you to settle down on the last page, but after the nonsense WF has been shoveling post after post, have at him.

Settle down, moddie.

[epo]

On the face of it, this just sounds unconstitutional to me. Epo, I don't get why your sister wouldn't have control over without collective bargaining. Heck, from your comparison to the private sector it sounds like the union may have failed her and the rest.

Her union has never failed her. They have stood up for her on every grievance she has ever had. She may have a difficult job, but she chose her profession for a reason.

The reason that she hasn't had a pay raise in a few years is because the previous governor was facing a budget crunch. So in the fair way to work with the union, he brought them to the table and came to an agreement that everyone could live with. They didn't get a pay raise, but nobody lost their jobs. In other words, the union negotiated a deal to protect their members.

The public sector in Wisconsin has never asked to lead on salaries/compensation in this state. All they've ever asked for is to be treated fairly and obviously this governor doesn't care about that, all he cares about is union busting.

[Furtherman]

Settle down, moddie.

He's just trolling at this point.

[Snoogans]

Snoogans, I told you to settle down on the last page, but after the nonsense WF has been shoveling post after post, have at him.

its cool man. I got sick of making points and was just tryin to set him off before. just leave the option open for future threads and ill do my best

[WRESTLINGFAN]

He's just trolling at this point.

I am offering a different opinion. Does it bother you that not everyone on this board is a progressive or a Democrat? Why does that bother you?

The cries that its a war on the working class and that people are being exploited is a worn out line. People choose to become public workers. Nobody put a gun to their head.

The whole national guard issue I disagree with. I think thats too much. Im sure Madison has more than enough police if the protesters get violent.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Oh you silly progressives. Haven't you learned anything from Tuscon ?

The one thing you have on the Teabaggers. You can spell.

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://pajamasmedia.com/tatler/files/2011/02/wisconsin-1.jpg&imgrefurl=http://pajamasmedia.com/tatler/2011/02/17/photos-wi-protesters-call-gov-walker-a-dictator-put-crosshairs-on-his-face/&usg=__mRRS_3krNfZEabrh1hVUPBuI0rI=&h=349&w=491&sz=74&hl=en&start=0&zoom=1&tbnid=roXbYnhOwMbMbM:&tbnh=116&tbnw=150&ei=RsleTYKjB4K78gaUpK3aCw&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dwalker%2Bis%2Ba%2Bdictator%26hl%3Den% 26biw%3D1046%26bih%3D516%26gbv%3D2%26tbs%3Disch:1&itbs=1&iact=rc&dur=1015&oei=RsleTYKjB4K78gaUpK3aCw&page=1&ndsp=17&ved=1t:429,r:4,s:0&tx=58&ty=61

[foodcourtdruide]

I am offering a different opinion. Does it bother you that not everyone on this board is a progressive or a Democrat? Why does that bother you?

The cries that its a war on the working class and that people are being exploited is a worn out line. People choose to become public workers. Nobody put a gun to their head.

The whole national guard issue I disagree with. I think thats too much. Im sure Madison has more than enough police if the protesters get violent.

It just might.


http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://pajamasmedia.com/tatler/files/2011/02/wisconsin-1.jpg&imgrefurl=http://pajamasmedia.com/tatler/2011/02/17/photos-wi-protesters-call-gov-walker-a-dictator-put-crosshairs-on-his-face/&usg=__mRRS_3krNfZEabrh1hVUPBuI0rI=&h=349&w=491&sz=74&hl=en&start=0&zoom=1&tbnid=roXbYnhOwMbMbM:&tbnh=116&tbnw=150&ei=RsleTYKjB4K78gaUpK3aCw&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dwalker%2Bis%2Ba%2Bdictator%26hl%3Den% 26biw%3D1046%26bih%3D516%26gbv%3D2%26tbs%3Disch:1&itbs=1&iact=rc&dur=1015&oei=RsleTYKjB4K78gaUpK3aCw&page=1&ndsp=17&ved=1t:429,r:4,s:0&tx=58&ty=61

It's not that your opinion is different, it's that it is very easily rebuked and rather than retract points that clearly show your flawed and dillusional logic you just change the topic.

Even in the above quote, you say that people choose to become public workers, no one puts a gun to their head. What does that even mean? So public workers should be mistreated because they chose to be public workers? WHAT?! These are still workers that are providing a service for society, your complete disrespect for that shows entitlement BY YOU.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

It's not that your opinion is different, it's that it is very easily rebuked and rather than retract points that clearly show your flawed and dillusional logic you just change the topic.

Even in the above quote, you say that people choose to become public workers, no one puts a gun to their head. What does that even mean? So public workers should be mistreated because they chose to be public workers? WHAT?! These are still workers that are providing a service for society, your complete disrespect for that shows entitlement BY YOU.

They voluntarily took those jobs.

How are they being mistreated? They can still bargain for their wages. The governor wants them to contribute to their retirement/healthcare you would think that they are being fed to the lions.


When I am being taxed to subsidize someones retirement I should have a say. However your logic of biting the hand that feeds you shows your ignorance

[foodcourtdruide]

They voluntarily took those jobs.

How are they being mistreated? They can still bargain for their wages. The governor wants them to contribute to their retirement/healthcare you would think that they are being fed to the lions.

:wallbash::wallbash::wallbash::wallbash::wallbash: :wallbash:

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Words have meaning progressives.

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/stories/2011/02/17/PR_wis_signs_0217.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/stories/2011/02/17/nationworld.qp-5329271.sto&usg=__z_STp_NOfiWkdy444OLnMo4hOl4=&h=380&w=505&sz=50&hl=en&start=16&zoom=1&tbnid=NzGLX8mBhqTySM:&tbnh=160&tbnw=213&ei=4steTc2LIZH4gAe2x9yhDQ&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dscott%2Bwalker%2Bsigns%26hl%3Den%26bi w%3D1046%26bih%3D516%26gbv%3D2%26tbs%3Disch:10%2C3 87&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=326&vpy=134&dur=749&hovh=195&hovw=259&tx=109&ty=69&oei=3steTfmUNcL-8Ab_2YXuCw&page=2&ndsp=8&ved=1t:429,r:1,s:16&biw=1046&bih=516


http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.prwatch.org/files/images/Scott%2520Walker%2520Blows%2520Goats.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.prwatch.org/node/9944&usg=__o2pOePStvCmmp3X3R8AVw4D1r0E=&h=600&w=800&sz=44&hl=en&start=56&zoom=1&tbnid=MubKaXdFnmoQoM:&tbnh=154&tbnw=208&ei=QsxeTeqGEoidgQee163vDQ&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dscott%2Bwalker%2Bsigns%26hl%3Den%26bi w%3D1046%26bih%3D516%26gbv%3D2%26tbs%3Disch:1&itbs=1&iact=rc&dur=47&oei=3steTfmUNcL-8Ab_2YXuCw&page=7&ndsp=8&ved=1t:429,r:4,s:56&tx=114&ty=88


http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://cmsimg.fdlreporter.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde%3FSite%3DU0%26Date%3D20110217%26Category%3DF ON0101%26ArtNo%3D110217026%26Ref%3DAR%26MaxW%3D640 %26Border%3D0&imgrefurl=http://www.fdlreporter.com/article/20110217/FON0101/110217026/-what-democracy-looks-like-&usg=__MAzUwyrc8UWIxGvIbWoK6mPMhi4=&h=399&w=600&sz=22&hl=en&start=16&zoom=1&tbnid=gHDaOruySYCpeM:&tbnh=166&tbnw=228&ei=bMxeTY_gMILHgAeOhpHUDQ&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dscott%2Bwalker%2Bsigns%26hl%3Den%26bi w%3D1046%26bih%3D516%26gbv%3D2%26tbs%3Disch:1&itbs=1&iact=rc&dur=344&oei=3steTfmUNcL-8Ab_2YXuCw&page=2&ndsp=8&ved=1t:429,r:4,s:16&tx=102&ty=88

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5257/5451822649_4a8fbb414e.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.foundingbloggers.com/wordpress/2011/02/note-to-union-tough-guys-hitler-was-a-socialist/&usg=__ezlSOrOZKFjBLEL15vS5Qq7c4rI=&h=375&w=500&sz=170&hl=en&start=40&zoom=1&tbnid=nqVz7aZncFs6dM:&tbnh=165&tbnw=226&ei=hsxeTeCQHYHpgAeW0MjTDQ&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dscott%2Bwalker%2Bsigns%26hl%3Den%26bi w%3D1046%26bih%3D516%26gbv%3D2%26tbs%3Disch:1&itbs=1&iact=rc&dur=188&oei=3steTfmUNcL-8Ab_2YXuCw&page=5&ndsp=8&ved=1t:429,r:6,s:40&tx=79&ty=83


I wonder what Feingolds opinion on that last sign is

[Dude!]

Words have meaning progressives.

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/stories/2011/02/17/PR_wis_signs_0217.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/stories/2011/02/17/nationworld.qp-5329271.sto&usg=__z_STp_NOfiWkdy444OLnMo4hOl4=&h=380&w=505&sz=50&hl=en&start=16&zoom=1&tbnid=NzGLX8mBhqTySM:&tbnh=160&tbnw=213&ei=4steTc2LIZH4gAe2x9yhDQ&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dscott%2Bwalker%2Bsigns%26hl%3Den%26bi w%3D1046%26bih%3D516%26gbv%3D2%26tbs%3Disch:10%2C3 87&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=326&vpy=134&dur=749&hovh=195&hovw=259&tx=109&ty=69&oei=3steTfmUNcL-8Ab_2YXuCw&page=2&ndsp=8&ved=1t:429,r:1,s:16&biw=1046&bih=516


http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.prwatch.org/files/images/Scott%2520Walker%2520Blows%2520Goats.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.prwatch.org/node/9944&usg=__o2pOePStvCmmp3X3R8AVw4D1r0E=&h=600&w=800&sz=44&hl=en&start=56&zoom=1&tbnid=MubKaXdFnmoQoM:&tbnh=154&tbnw=208&ei=QsxeTeqGEoidgQee163vDQ&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dscott%2Bwalker%2Bsigns%26hl%3Den%26bi w%3D1046%26bih%3D516%26gbv%3D2%26tbs%3Disch:1&itbs=1&iact=rc&dur=47&oei=3steTfmUNcL-8Ab_2YXuCw&page=7&ndsp=8&ved=1t:429,r:4,s:56&tx=114&ty=88


http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://cmsimg.fdlreporter.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde%3FSite%3DU0%26Date%3D20110217%26Category%3DF ON0101%26ArtNo%3D110217026%26Ref%3DAR%26MaxW%3D640 %26Border%3D0&imgrefurl=http://www.fdlreporter.com/article/20110217/FON0101/110217026/-what-democracy-looks-like-&usg=__MAzUwyrc8UWIxGvIbWoK6mPMhi4=&h=399&w=600&sz=22&hl=en&start=16&zoom=1&tbnid=gHDaOruySYCpeM:&tbnh=166&tbnw=228&ei=bMxeTY_gMILHgAeOhpHUDQ&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dscott%2Bwalker%2Bsigns%26hl%3Den%26bi w%3D1046%26bih%3D516%26gbv%3D2%26tbs%3Disch:1&itbs=1&iact=rc&dur=344&oei=3steTfmUNcL-8Ab_2YXuCw&page=2&ndsp=8&ved=1t:429,r:4,s:16&tx=102&ty=88

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5257/5451822649_4a8fbb414e.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.foundingbloggers.com/wordpress/2011/02/note-to-union-tough-guys-hitler-was-a-socialist/&usg=__ezlSOrOZKFjBLEL15vS5Qq7c4rI=&h=375&w=500&sz=170&hl=en&start=40&zoom=1&tbnid=nqVz7aZncFs6dM:&tbnh=165&tbnw=226&ei=hsxeTeCQHYHpgAeW0MjTDQ&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dscott%2Bwalker%2Bsigns%26hl%3Den%26bi w%3D1046%26bih%3D516%26gbv%3D2%26tbs%3Disch:1&itbs=1&iact=rc&dur=188&oei=3steTfmUNcL-8Ab_2YXuCw&page=5&ndsp=8&ved=1t:429,r:6,s:40&tx=79&ty=83


I wonder what Feingolds opinion on that last sign is

i bet feingold's parents
collaborated with the nazis
and sold-out other jews

[WRESTLINGFAN]

i bet feingold's parents
collaborated with the nazis
and sold-out other jews

Somewhere Epo is laughing

[Dude!]

Somewhere Epo is laughing

no, he's too busy crying
cause his day is over, baby
OVER

[epo]

A protest has started in Ohio over a proposed bill that......strips public employees of their collective bargaining rights!

Link to story here. (http://www.tribtoday.com/page/content.detail/id/553392/Hundreds-protest-bill.html?nav=5021)

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Wow, these open minded progressives are so tolerant and enlightened. :lol:

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://mchenrycountyblog.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/Hitler-equals-Scott-Walker.png&imgrefurl=http://www.mchenrycountyblog.com/&usg=__EoSP_us-5g-owkEC1MWHblcu3bE=&h=355&w=579&sz=198&hl=en&start=0&zoom=1&tbnid=hVLxhvfQNDG2NM:&tbnh=118&tbnw=173&ei=0NReTY-SMcSt8Abh4sntCw&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dscott%2Bwalker%2Bsigns%26hl%3Den%26bi w%3D1046%26bih%3D516%26gbv%3D2%26tbs%3Disch:1&itbs=1&iact=rc&dur=453&oei=0NReTY-SMcSt8Abh4sntCw&page=1&ndsp=15&ved=1t:429,r:3,s:0&tx=122&ty=55

[Dudeman]

It's not that your opinion is different, it's that it is very easily rebuked and rather than retract points that clearly show your flawed and dillusional logic you just change the topic.


What's new? The only question is why bother continuing to attempt to have interactions with him/her?

[Dudeman]

The cries that its a war on the working class and that people are being exploited is a worn out line.

No, it isn't.

Just because you aren't aware of or aren't interested in other peoples' problems doesn't mean they don't exist.

[Dude!]

Wow, these open minded progressives are so tolerant and enlightened. :lol:

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://mchenrycountyblog.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/Hitler-equals-Scott-Walker.png&imgrefurl=http://www.mchenrycountyblog.com/&usg=__EoSP_us-5g-owkEC1MWHblcu3bE=&h=355&w=579&sz=198&hl=en&start=0&zoom=1&tbnid=hVLxhvfQNDG2NM:&tbnh=118&tbnw=173&ei=0NReTY-SMcSt8Abh4sntCw&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dscott%2Bwalker%2Bsigns%26hl%3Den%26bi w%3D1046%26bih%3D516%26gbv%3D2%26tbs%3Disch:1&itbs=1&iact=rc&dur=453&oei=0NReTY-SMcSt8Abh4sntCw&page=1&ndsp=15&ved=1t:429,r:3,s:0&tx=122&ty=55

it's people like that
who turned gifford
into a waterhead

so uncivil

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I see useless Education Sec'y Duncan is giving his support for his bretheren. Only striking government teachers could win federal praise for NOT doing their jobs.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

it's people like that
who turned gifford
into a waterhead

so uncivil

Will Al Sharpton lead the way to get Ed Schultz and Mike Malloy removed from the airwaves?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

It wouldnt be a circus by the race hustler himself


http://www.wkbt.com/Global/story.asp?S=14058089

[BustahMyTool]

i bet feingold's parents
collaborated with the nazis
and sold-out other jews

I get that feeling, too

[BustahMyTool]

it's people like that
who turned gifford
into a waterhead

so uncivil

that's what I love about you Dude!

Always encouraging everyone to be civil

[WRESTLINGFAN]

The teachers are definitely teaching.

Teaching kids to lie by calling out sick and going protesting

They are teaching to steal by colecting tax dollars by not working

Wait till those little brats marching in the street have to go to school in July. No PS3 for you Junior :lol:

[spoon]

What's new? The only question is why bother continuing to attempt to have interactions with him/her?

IN a way I agree, but to be honest it's nice to have the facts put out there, many that are even new to me. Epo continually argues based on facts and WF just tells us the ride is over and our worker's rights line is old. Sorry WF, that's complete and utter bs. Instead of passing on all these tax cuts to the rich so they can get richer, how about we pay people a decent wage with decent benefits who occupy important jobs that should be paid by our overall tax dollars.

Sure there are some who play the system and they shouldn't be protected, and this is where Unions should take a step back (bad teachers get ousted, not just the young/new ones). However, it's amazing the middle-class jobs are under attack, not the top gov official like Walker and his staff, his pay-back jobs and payback tax cuts. How is it that was think the money to go after is that of public servants, not the other way around?

If the money for the public sector workers was managed correctly, it would have grown versus being used to fund other bullshit just like with Social Security and other programs.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

IN a way I agree, but to be honest it's nice to have the facts put out there, many that are even new to me. Epo continually argues based on facts and WF just tells us the ride is over and our worker's rights line is old. Sorry WF, that's complete and utter bs. Instead of passing on all these tax cuts to the rich so they can get richer, how about we pay people a decent wage with decent benefits who occupy important jobs that should be paid by our overall tax dollars.

Sure there are some who play the system and they shouldn't be protected, and this is where Unions should take a step back (bad teachers get ousted, not just the young/new ones). However, it's amazing the middle-class jobs are under attack, not the top gov official like Walker and his staff, his pay-back jobs and payback tax cuts. How is it that was think the money to go after is that of public servants, not the other way around?

If the money for the public sector workers was managed correctly, it would have grown versus being used to fund other bullshit just like with Social Security and other programs.

The workers are already being paid decent wages and benefits. Again No one is taking away to collectively bargain for their salaries. How many times must I say that?

I love it how people cry and complain when they are receiving other peoples money for their gold plated retirements and healthcare packages. Nobody is ever satisfied.

I provide facts but if you just want to dismiss them then go ahead. The system used to subsidize their perks is unsustainable and now the bubble has burst.


Let these greedy public sector unions keep fanning the flames. Its going to blow up in their faces. The sympathy for them ran out years ago.

[spoon]

Udog and Dudeman are right. Why bother? I simply can't buy that you think just wages are negotiable but saftey, benefits and everything else is off the table.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Udog and Dudeman are right. Why bother? I simply can't buy that you think just wages are negotiable but saftey, benefits and everything else is off the table.

Safety?

Those teachers really have to worry about the Taliban throwing acid in the eyes of schoolgirls.

Again Unions lose sympathy when they turn to moblike tactics.

http://www.jsonline.com/news/opinion/116355379.html

[WRESTLINGFAN]

The talk of civility only lasted about a month.


<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/GEq-wj4_W7o" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


These teachers are really living on Ramen noodles and grape soda. Break out the violins

http://www.teacher-world.com/teacher-salary/wisconsin.html

[WRESTLINGFAN]

This is fucking youtube gold. Way to keep that stereotype you progressive whore. THIS IS FOR THE KIIIIIIIIIDS!!!!!!!!


:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/XfWE05dezVA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Snoogans]

Safety?

Those teachers really have to worry about the Taliban throwing acid in the eyes of schoolgirls.

Again Unions lose sympathy when they turn to moblike tactics.

http://www.jsonline.com/news/opinion/116355379.html

yea, cause teachers are the only people employed publicly. NO OTHER JOBS

[WRESTLINGFAN]

yea, cause teachers are the only people employed publicly. NO OTHER JOBS

Nobody said that. However they are the ones who are the most vocal.


Fuck it. I hope the public sector unions get busted. At least in the private sector if people want to organize, the consumer has the choice to purchase a product from a non union shop IE cars. However the government is a legalized monopoly so theres no competition. AFSCME and other unions were born in Wisconsin. I'd love to see them die

[Snoogans]

Nobody said that. However they are the ones who are the most vocal.


Fuck it. I hope the public sector unions get busted. At least in the private sector if people want to organize, the consumer has the choice to purchase a product from a non union shop IE cars. However the government is a legalized monopoly so theres no competition. AFSCME and other unions were born in Wisconsin. I'd love to see them die

25000 people showed up at the capitol. Im pretty sure they werent all teachers

[WRESTLINGFAN]

25000 people showed up at the capitol. Im pretty sure they werent all teachers

I agree to that. But its the teachers who dont give a fuck about the children. Did they think of the single mother who had to take days off from work to watch their children because the teachers lied?

Fire the teachers and anyone else who did a sickout. Im sure theres a long waiting list especially for people out of work to fill these positions.

Oh BTW. Way to keep up the union boss practice. Its ok right? He's a fireman

http://www.lohud.com/article/20110218/NEWS02/102180378/Yonkers-fire-union-official-charged-in-100-000-theft

[Snoogans]

I agree to that. But its the teachers who dont give a fuck about the children. Did they think of the single mother who had to take days off from work to watch their children because the teachers lied?

Fire the teachers and anyone else who did a sickout. Im sure theres a long waiting list especially for people out of work to fill these positions.

we can spin this all we want. How is it not the state? Maybe the state doesnt care about children, so they are cutting the package knowing the good teachers wont take it, and now they are gonna bring in cheaper, crappy teachers who make the kids even dumber?

Why not attack all the southern towns who cancelled school for 2 inches of snow. they must not give a fuck about children either? Can you not see? This is a cause that they are gettin behind for their livleyhood. If they tried to take benefits from police, would you call police assholes for demanding benefits?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

we can spin this all we want. How is it not the state? Maybe the state doesnt care about children, so they are cutting the package knowing the good teachers wont take it, and now they are gonna bring in cheaper, crappy teachers who make the kids even dumber?

Why not attack all the southern towns who cancelled school for 2 inches of snow. they must not give a fuck about children either? Can you not see? This is a cause that they are gettin behind for their livleyhood. If they tried to take benefits from police, would you call police assholes for demanding benefits?

Yes like the teachers making high salaries are quality teachers. Gotta love that tenure and the results are kids who cant point out Iraq on a map, are not able to tell how much change to give if someone gave them $10.00 for something that costs $9.85. Lets piss away billions more on education. Fuck it. Lets triple the budget on the Dept of Education.

[Snoogans]

Yes like the teachers making high salaries are quality teachers. Gotta love that tenure and the results are kids who cant point out Iraq on a map, are not able to tell how much change to give if someone gave them $10.00 for something that costs $9.85. Lets piss away billions more on education. Fuck it. Lets triple the budget on the Dept of Education.

yea, the kids have nothing to do with it. Every kid that is stupid, its all the teachers fault. its never cause the kid didnt pay attention. Are the teachers supposed to electro shock kids to make sure they try? Did you even go to school?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

yea, the kids have nothing to do with it. Every kid that is stupid, its all the teachers fault. its never cause the kid didnt pay attention. Are the teachers supposed to electro shock kids to make sure they try? Did you even go to school?

No I didnt I magically could read, write, solve math equations etc at 18 months.


These teachers are serious and mean business. They refuse to fuck their teenage students until their demands are met

[Dude!]

I'll lay waste to this thread in depth at a later time, but let me state these quick points:

2. The state is projected to have a $127M surplus as of January so this is an imaginary crisis.

see, this is why you can't
be taken seriously..

you just out and out lie

your crappy state has a
budget deficit of over
2 billion dollars
(some estimates say 3.6 billion)

you have the highest per-person
budget deficit in the country...
4 times california's!

you just make up stuff to support
your emotional postions, dear
"useful idiot"

[Dude!]

even the commie rag
Milwaukee Journal Sentinel
is on to these thugs

http://www.jsonline.com/news/opinion/116434554.html

[WRESTLINGFAN]

even the commie rag
Milwaukee Journal Sentinel
is on to these thugs

http://www.jsonline.com/news/opinion/116434554.html

Nothing Democratic when Democrats flee like a bunch of pansies when they dont get their way

They will feel right at home in the progressive cesspool known as Chicago.

[Crispy123]

Seriously, who wants this "progress" from "progressives" anyways? We don't need teachers or teachers unions. Those kids should be in a factory working 18 hour days if they are over the age of 10, not in school.

[Dan 'Hampton]

Fuck them and fuck the south!

[KnoxHarrington]

Seriously, who wants this "progress" from "progressives" anyways? We don't need teachers or teachers unions. Those kids should be in a factory working 18 hour days if they are over the age of 10, not in school.

Yeah, fuck this progress shit. All kids should have their dreams crushed as early as possible and forced into a life of hard labor for menial wages. Education gives them the idea that they live in a country where you can do whatever you want with your life, regardless of the circumstances of your birth. What kind of faggot commie bullshit is that?

Especially if they're poor. And really especially if they're...well, you know. Not of fair hue.

[BustahMyTool]

How is that hopey, changey thing working out for you progressives?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Yeah, fuck this progress shit. All kids should have their dreams crushed as early as possible and forced into a life of hard labor for menial wages. Education gives them the idea that they live in a country where you can do whatever you want with your life, regardless of the circumstances of your birth. What kind of faggot commie bullshit is that?

Especially if they're poor. And really especially if they're...well, you know. Not of fair hue.

You seem to think this is the 19th century with your over the top emotional diatribe. No kid is being denied an education. Fuck even if someone is here illegally. The supreme court in 1982 mandated that they are entitled to an education. I happen to disagreee with it, but thats an arguement for another time.


You progressives think that having taxpayers subsidize viagra prescriptions for Milwaukee teachers is a human right. No wonder most of the country thinks you are delusional.

If anyone hates minority students its your dear leader
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-4860043-503544.html

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Seriously, who wants this failure from "progressives" anyways? We don't need teachers unions. Those kids should be in a classroom learing the 3 R's not reading Heather has 2 Mommies if they are under the age of 10.

Fixed

[Dan 'Hampton]

This fucktard^^^^ still thinks there's a difference. Then again him and his ilk are responsible for destroying the American manufacturing sector and the "American Dream".

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Why the fuck is Obama sticking his nose in this? Its none of his god damned business. This isnt a federal issue.


Heres the reason why. His rent a mob has a stake in this


http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/news/116495913.html?page=1



Jesse Jackson graced Madison with his appearance wheres his brother in arms, the other media whore and the other half of the poverty pimping street hustlers Al Sharpton?

[epo]

see, this is why you can't
be taken seriously..

you just out and out lie

your crappy state has a
budget deficit of over
2 billion dollars
(some estimates say 3.6 billion)

you have the highest per-person
budget deficit in the country...
4 times california's!

you just make up stuff to support
your emotional postions, dear
"useful idiot"

Silly boy.

A deficit is a current funding issue.
A debt is a structural/overall amount due.

Wisconsin works under a 2-year budget. The new Governor claims that the previous budget has a deficit problem. However the Legislative Fiscal Bureau of Wisconsin in January report had a surplus for this 2-year budget (much due to worker sacrifice via negotiations).

Link to that report here. (http://legis.wisconsin.gov/lfb/Misc/2011_01_31Vos&Darling.pdf)

At the end of the day, defending Governor Walker is standing up against the working man.

[KnoxHarrington]

This fucktard^^^^ still thinks there's a difference. Then again him and his ilk are responsible for destroying the American manufacturing sector and the "American Dream".

And too fucking stupid to realize that when the corporations that run the Republican Party get what they want, they'll be the first thrown under the bus.

That's the brilliance of right-wing politics in the post-Reagan era: getting so many people to work so ardently for their own destruction.

[epo]

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/_3mw49mk_x0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[WRESTLINGFAN]

And too fucking stupid to realize that when the corporations that run the Republican Party get what they want, they'll be the first thrown under the bus.

That's the brilliance of right-wing politics in the post-Reagan era: getting so many people to work so ardently for their own destruction.

Like the Democrats aren't in bed with corporations too. Give it a rest already. The Dems are just as bad.

How about Democrats throwing blue collar workers under the bus. They are the first ones to pass excessive environmental regulations on smokestack industries forcing some to close down. Sure Nancy Pelosi is real concerned with a coal miner in W Va.

Lets talk brilliance. 100 years of progressive policies from the income tax to the new deal, great society and every other bloated top heavy government program. What has it done? Formed a subculture of needy and dependant zero liability voters who keep voting for the Democrats. Cities like Detroit St Louis Chicago etc. are 3rd world slums. The Dems want to keep them in their cycle of poverty and the zero liability voter is faithful and keeps electing them they will always voe themselves a pay raise since someone else is paying for it.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/_3mw49mk_x0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>



You bastards will come begging to the taxpayers on your knees when you want a bailout

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/EO_5o9Gup6g" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>





YOURE PUBLIC FUCKING SERVANTS NOW SHUT UP AND FILL THOSE POTHOLES!!!!!!!!

[KnoxHarrington]

Like the Democrats aren't in bed with corporations too. Give it a rest already. The Dems are just as bad.

How about Democrats throwing blue collar workers under the bus. They are the first ones to pass excessive environmental regulations on smokestack industries forcing some to close down. Sure Nancy Pelosi is real concerned with a coal miner in W Va.

Lets talk brilliance. 100 years of progressive policies from the income tax to the new deal, great society and every other bloated top heavy government program. What has it done? Formed a subculture of needy and dependant zero liability voters who keep voting for the Democrats. Cities like Detroit St Louis Chicago etc. are 3rd world slums. The Dems want to keep them in their cycle of poverty and the zero liability voter is faithful and keeps electing them they will always voe themselves a pay raise since someone else is paying for it.

Oh, please, enough with the "Democrats are just as bad!" thing. Especially given shit like this:

As the nation focuses on the efforts of Governor Scott Walker to take away collective bargaining rights from public employees in Wisconsin, new information is coming to light that reveals what is truly going on here.

Mother Jones is reporting that much of the funding behind the Walker for Governor campaign came from none other than uber-conservatives, the infamous Koch Brothers.

What’s more, the plan to kill the unions is right out of the Koch Brothers play book.

Koch-backed groups like Americans for Prosperity, the Cato Institute, the Competitive Enterprise Institute, and the Reason Foundation have long taken a very antagonistic view toward public-sector unions. Several of these groups have urged the eradication of these unions. The Kochs also invited Mark Mix, president of the National Right to Work Legal Defense Foundation, an anti-union outfit, to a June 2010 confab in Aspen, Colorado;

Via Mother Jones

If you are reluctant to believe that this is a coordinated attack, consider this-

This afternoon, Marty Beil, executive director of the Wisconsin Public Workers Union, sent a message to the Governor’s office agreeing to the cuts to pension & welfare benefits sought by Walker in his bill. The governor’s response was “nothing doing.” He wants the whole kit and kaboodle – the end of the collective bargaining rights of the public unions.

Please find me a Democratic initiative -- or politician -- as bought and paid for by industry as this is.

And note that the unions are willing to compromise, but Walker is not.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Oh, please, enough with the "Democrats are just as bad!" thing. Especially given shit like this:

Again the Democrats arent exactly saints either.

Please find me a Democratic initiative -- or politician -- as bought and paid for by industry as this is.

And note that the unions are willing to compromise, but Walker is not.

Obama is being pimped out by Wall Street. So is Schumer.


Want to talk Democrats bought off by corporations? How about Durbin, Nelson, Tom Harkin

Agri business loves them. They love those ethanol subsidies.


I'll say it again. Walker is allowing them to bargain for salaries. I think public sector unions should be busted because the government is a monopoly. In the private sector when a union shop company dies, the union does too


You want to bring up the Koch brothers? I will refer a name that finances progressive policies. The Lord of Left wingers himself.


http://s4.hubimg.com/u/647527_f520.jpg

[Dudeman]

How about Democrats throwing blue collar workers under the bus. They are the first ones to pass excessive environmental regulations on smokestack industries forcing some to close down. Sure Nancy Pelosi is real concerned with a coal miner in W Va.


It is called empathy. Just because you and Rand Paul are devoid of it, doesn't mean it fails to exist. Some people would rather have a factory regulated so it doesn't have unsafe working conditions or pollute the community instead of increasing the owner's profit margins.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

It is called empathy. Just because you and Rand Paul are devoid of it, doesn't mean it fails to exist. Some people would rather have a factory regulated so it doesn't have unsafe working conditions or pollute the community instead of increasing the owner's profit margins.

Empathy that some politician 3000 miles away voted for a policy that made a steelworker lose his job. Fuck it. Maybe he can work on Pelosi's vineyard

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Michelle Rhee was driven out because the thugs in the teachers union didnt like real reform.


http://www.minnpost.com/worldcsm/2010/12/07/23984/teachers_union_target_michelle_rhee_to_raise_1_bil lion_for_education_reform


Parasites like Randi Weingarden and the rest of the thugs are only concerned about power their its for the children rhetoric is a fucking lie.

[El Mudo]

Michelle Rhee was driven out because the thugs in the teachers union didnt like real reform.


http://www.minnpost.com/worldcsm/2010/12/07/23984/teachers_union_target_michelle_rhee_to_raise_1_bil lion_for_education_reform


Parasites like Randi Weingarden and the rest of the thugs are only concerned about power their its for the children rhetoric is a fucking lie.


Rhee wasn't "driven out". She made herself a ton of enemies (as did most of the people in the Fenty Administration), and quit when Vince Gray was elected (http://voices.washingtonpost.com/dcschools/2010/09/rhee_election_result_devastati.html?wpisrc=nl_buzz ).

And here (http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2010/10/13/130542069/)

According to NPR's Claudio Sanchez, "weeks earlier, Rhee had hinted that she could not work for Gray, the man expected to become the next mayor, because she didn't think he would be willing to make the tough political decisions that are still necessary to whip the system into shape, or to take on the teachers' union, which gave Gray's campaign lots of money."

[Dudeman]

Empathy that some politician 3000 miles away voted for a policy that made a steelworker lose his job. Fuck it. Maybe he can work on Pelosi's vineyard

What does it matter if it is 3miles or 3000 miles. If a company is putting its employees or neighbors in danger, it has to be regulated. PERIOD

Real life example?

Here is the well documented story of McWane, Inc- a situation totally analogous to the one we are posting about:

-McWane, Inc., based in Birmingham, Alabama, is a manufacturer of cast iron pipes
-one of America’s largest privately owned companies
-The company's operating revenues are estimated to be about $1.75 billion

-4,600 workers have been injured in McWane's foundries
-McWane has ignored worker and environmental safety to focus on production and profitability.

-The free market FAILED to protect those workers or the surrounding neighborhoods.

-Fortunately, PBS, the NYTimes, and federal government laws and agencies stepped in.
-In 2003 PBS Frontline in cooperation with the New York Times and the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation investigated the company
-between 1995 and 2003, McWane has been found in violation of U.S. Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) regulations more than four hundred times.
-in July 2010, Mcwane agreed to pay $4 million to settle more than 400 violations of environmental laws.

-In recent years the company has upgraded many of its facilities to meet federal safety standards. The company's Union Foundry has won several safety awards from local and state officials

links:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/workplace/mcwane/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McWane

[Dudeman]

Some more on McWane:

-The McWane corporation's aggressive management style -- what it calls "disciplined management practices" -- has helped the company to achieve tremendous profits through increasing worker productivity. Some critics argue, however, that McWane's gains have come at a very high cost: its workers' safety -- and in some cases their lives. But McWane's way of doing business is not the only way, as a comparison with its longtime Birmingham competitor, the American Cast Iron Pipe Co. (ACIPCO), clearly suggests.

-More than 4,600 of its workers have been hurt on the job since 1995, and nine have been killed.

-federal inspectors from the Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA), detail conditions at the plant, including scarred and disfigured workers, puddles of molten metal on the floor, and poorly lit work areas.

-In this confidential 1996 memo to the New York State attorney general's office, McWane's attorneys state that the company would not accept any criminal responsibility for the 1995 death of an employee at its Kennedy Valve plant in Elmira, N.Y. Playing political hardball, they warn that criminal charges "could result in the closure of Kennedy Valve that would cost the Elmira area more than 320 jobs."
-- This sounds like some shit WF would write, if he/she were a lawyer.
-- But regulations have occurred, safety has improved, and the company isn't out of business.

More links:

One of the world's largest manufacturers of cast-iron sewer and water pipe is also one of the most dangerous employers in America. (http://www.nytimes.com/2003/01/08/national/08PIPE.html?ref=dangerousbusiness)

The story of how a reclusive family ascended into the ranks of the nation's wealthiest dynasties is an often-painful one, written in the blood and tears of its workers. (http://www.nytimes.com/2003/01/09/national/09PIPE.html?ref=dangerousbusiness)

McWane Inc. workers have been maimed and killed by safety failures. Yet regulators and police have never taken a coordinated approach to end patterns of transgression. (http://www.nytimes.com/2003/01/10/national/10PIPE.html?ref=dangerousbusiness)

Fortunately, AFTER the NYTimes and PBS did their reporting on the conditions and the inability of federal agencies to regulate those bad conditions (due to lack of funding), the company was finally forced to start making changes- without going out of business. The original reports were made in 2003, a follow up was done in 2008.

[Dudeman]

Empathy that some politician 3000 miles away voted for a policy that made a steelworker lose his job. Fuck it. Maybe he can work on Pelosi's vineyard

and I live 2000 miles from McWane headquaters, but I still don't want their profit margin to come above the workers' safety or the air and water safety of the surrounding neighborhood.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Overbearing politicians 3000 miles away with their idiotic policies because they have to regulate light bulbs kill more jobs


http://www.climatechangedispatch.com/politics-propaganda/7634-democrat-policies-kill-last-major-incandescent-light-bulb-factory-in-usa


Nobody wants anarchy but excessive overbearing regulation kills jobs.


If there would actually be competition new factories would open up with safer conditions. We dont need politicians interloping when many of them don't know anything about the private sector.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Rhee wasn't "driven out". She made herself a ton of enemies (as did most of the people in the Fenty Administration), and quit when Vince Gray was elected (http://voices.washingtonpost.com/dcschools/2010/09/rhee_election_result_devastati.html?wpisrc=nl_buzz ).

And here (http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2010/10/13/130542069/)

A ton of enemies because she wanted to change things and end business as usual.


Why Fentley was driven out.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/09/15/AR2010091500834.html

DC spends about 13K per student and how are those results?


Obama was pimped out by the AFT/NEA but wont send his daughters to the DC public school system.

[Dudeman]

Nobody wants anarchy but excessive overbearing regulation kills jobs.


If there would actually be competition new factories would open up with safer conditions. We dont need politicians interloping when many of them don't know anything about the private sector.


Lack of regulation kills people: "More than 4,600 of its workers have been hurt on the job since 1995, and nine have been killed."

Did you read anything I wrote or linked to???? These REAL LIFE examples clearly refute your SLOGANS.
-The company had profits when regulations were NOT enforced. Competition and the free market couldn't put them out of business when they had poor conditions because they could operate at a low cost. The free market neither protected the workers and the surrounding neighbors- only the free press and government regulations did.
-When the regulations were enforced, the company did not go out of business.

I'm basing my conclusions on real life facts. Stop relying on Ron and Rand Paul slogans, and start looking at the facts.

Your link ridiculous and not analogous to the situation we were discussing. You want to cut regulations that lead to newer and better technology to save a job? What about having the workers shift over to working on the newer technology. Who is producing the new light bulbs? what about the jobs created producing new bulbs? if a new technology comes along, should we ignore it to protect jobs? Is protecting a job so an older technology can remain analagous to regulating deadly working conditions?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Lack of regulation kills people: "More than 4,600 of its workers have been hurt on the job since 1995, and nine have been killed."

Did you read anything I wrote or linked to???? These REAL LIFE examples clearly refute your SLOGANS.
-The company had profits when regulations were NOT enforced. Competition and the free market couldn't put them out of business when they had poor conditions because they could operate at a low cost. The free market neither protected the workers and the surrounding neighbors- only the free press and government regulations did.
-When the regulations were enforced, the company did not go out of business.

I'm basing my conclusions on real life facts. Stop relying on Ron and Rand Paul slogans, and start looking at the facts.

Your link has no facts. It is a half page long- how can something this complicated be summarized that quickly- who is producing the new light bulbs? what about the jobs created producing new bulbs? if a new technology comes along, should we ignore it to protect jobs? Is protecting a job so an older technology can remain analagous to regulating deadly working conditions? what is the science behind the effects on the environment of different blubs???

My link has facts if you dont want to read it than dont read it. I know youre used to meaningless drivel like a 2500 page healthcare bill. For you bigger is better.


I said again there needs to be regulation but not an overbearing federal government. Yes, there are good regulations like having seatbelts in cars but a federal MPG minimum?


Look what this caused...


http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2001/07/cafe-standards-should-be-repealed

http://www.nationalcenter.org/NPA546CAFEStandards.html


Our government is killing us

[booster11373]

Empathy that some politician 3000 miles away voted for a policy that made a steelworker lose his job. Fuck it. Maybe he can work on Pelosi's vineyard

You have said alot of stupid things but this might be the most stupid. I think you should win some kind of prize

[Dudeman]

You have said alot of stupid things but this might be the most stupid. I think you should win some kind of prize

studies have shown that empathy can only go 36.2 miles

[WRESTLINGFAN]

You have said alot of stupid things but this might be the most stupid. I think you should win some kind of prize

You add nothing.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

studies have shown that empathy can only go 36.2 miles

According to a blue ribbon Congressional panel which released the 6000 page report

[Dudeman]

My link has facts if you dont want to read it than dont read it. I know youre used to meaningless drivel like a 2500 page healthcare bill. For you bigger is better.


I said again there needs to be regulation but not an overbearing federal government.

What the fuck does overbearing mean? A company has 4600 workers injured and 9 killed, but you don't want regulations that could harm those jobs???

Your link stupid- One is a regulation that protects the safety of workers and the surrounding neighborhood. The other is a regulation that spurs the use of a better technology. Both of those goals are NOT overbearing. (And your link says absolutely nothing about the jobs created by the new technology.)

1. Is a regulation overbearing if it protects workers from severe bodily harm or death, at the possible expense of an owner's profit margin?
2. Is a regulation overbearing if it promotes a superior, safer technology? (Doesn't that regulation actually promote the creating of jobs by spurring on a new industry? And if it doesn't, should safety and progress be counter-regulated?)

[Dudeman]

According to a blue ribbon Congressional panel which released the 6000 page report

You make up things about horrible federal government stuff- just like Ron and his buddy Michelle Bachmann do in order to rile up the rubes.

I cite specific examples of federal laws and agencies (ie. OSHA) that when fully funded do things to help people.

In return, you can only say you don't want "anarchy" or "overbearing" regulations. On that we agree. I guess I don't feel that regulations that inhibit deadly working conditions or dumping of waste in local streams or limit asthma-flair inducing substances into the air of surrounding neighborhoods to be "overbearing", even if they reduce the owner's profit margin. Do you considering those to be "overbearing"? I don't feel a regulation is "overbearing" if it promotes a better, safer technology- (that should shift jobs from one technology to another, not destroy them.)

[WRESTLINGFAN]

You make up things about horrible federal government stuff- just like Ron and his buddy Michelle Bachmann do in order to rile up the rubes.

I cite specific examples of federal laws and agencies (ie. OSHA) that when fully funded do things to help people.

In return, you can only say you don't want "anarchy" or "overbearing" regulations. On that we agree. I guess I don't feel that regulations that inhibit deadly working conditions or dumping of waste in local streams or limit asthma-flair inducing substances into the air of surrounding neighborhoods to be "overbearing", even if they reduce the owner's profit margin. Do you considering those to be "overbearing"? I don't feel a regulation is "overbearing" if it promotes a better, safer technology- (that should shift jobs from one technology to another, not destroy them.)

Yes congress legislating on something like a lightbulb is overbearing. Trying to pass a climate change bill when there are arguements about man made global warming out there so that it can grease the palms of globalists is overbearing. Federal minimum wage laws when it should be mandated on a state level is overbearing. CAFE standards which have lead to killing people is overbearing. Title IX is overbearing The 16th ammendment is overbearing


All that one size fits all solutions give us is conflict. I guess it fits right in line with what Sun Tzu wrote about so long ago - divide and conquer

Representative Pete Stark from California said in this town hall meeting that “THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT CAN DO MOST ANYTHING IN THIS COUNTRY”…



Remember John Dingle wanted to "Control the People"

[A.J.]

Rhee wasn't "driven out". She made herself a ton of enemies (as did most of the people in the Fenty Administration), and quit when Vince Gray was elected (http://voices.washingtonpost.com/dcschools/2010/09/rhee_election_result_devastati.html?wpisrc=nl_buzz ).

And here (http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2010/10/13/130542069/)

Fenty/Rhee were doomed the second they dared to fix the shitty DC schools.

[Dudeman]

I guess I don't feel that regulations that inhibit deadly working conditions or dumping of waste in local streams or limit asthma-flair inducing substances into the air of surrounding neighborhoods to be "overbearing", even if they reduce the owner's profit margin. Do you considering those to be "overbearing"? [/I]

?

[Dudeman]

You have said alot of stupid things but this might be the most stupid. I think you should win some kind of prize

what about saying that John Dingell wants to "control the people" as support for his desire to dismantle the federal government?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

?

Psst. Ever hear of local and state governments?

[Dudeman]

Yes congress legislating on something like a lightbulb is overbearing. Trying to pass a climate change bill when there are arguements about man made global warming out there so that it can grease the palms of globalists is overbearing. Federal minimum wage laws when it should be mandated on a state level is overbearing. CAFE standards which have lead to killing people is overbearing. Title IX is overbearing The 16th ammendment is overbearing


All that one size fits all solutions give us is conflict. I guess it fits right in line with what Sun Tzu wrote about so long ago - divide and conquer

Representative Pete Stark from California said in this town hall meeting that “THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT CAN DO MOST ANYTHING IN THIS COUNTRY”…



Remember John Dingle wanted to "Control the People"

You believe those things because your empathy can only travel so far

[WRESTLINGFAN]

You believe those things because your empathy can only travel so far

Empathy is best left to the individual and not to the government.

[Dudeman]

You have said alot of stupid things but this might be the most stupid. I think you should win some kind of prize

That really is a huge claim. What about this one: "Empathy is best left to the individual and not to the government."

Ok maybe the one about empathy not being able to travel 3000 miles is better. I don't know.

[Dudeman]

Empathy is best left to the individual and not to the government.

Another stupid, meaningless SLOGAN. (Do you have evidence to support this claim?)

That's right, you want an individual (or a church or a charity) to go to a factory that has working conditions that resulted in 4600 injuries and 9 deaths and do the investigation and enforce humane changes!!!!

[Syd]

If there would actually be competition new factories would open up with safer conditions. We dont need politicians interloping when many of them don't know anything about the private sector.

You don't think workers organizing would fix this? Instead of a government based solution, a free market solution could be made through a strong, effective union to guarantee worker safety.

[Dudeman]

You don't think workers organizing would fix this? Instead of a government based solution, a free market solution could be made through a strong, effective union to guarantee worker safety.

It really is unbelievably stupid/naive. He/She thinks the free market encourages worker's rights and worker safety. It is the total opposite of everything that has happened and is happening in the real world ever. (Ironically, he/she wants to turn us into Mexico or China- no worker protection (via regulations or unions), but superior bottom-lines/profit margins for corporations.)

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Another stupid, meaningless SLOGAN. (Do you have evidence to support this claim?)

That's right, you want an individual (or a church or a charity) to go to a factory that has working conditions that resulted in 4600 injuries and 9 deaths and do the investigation and enforce humane changes!!!!

Yes its called day to day life.


Accidents happen and factories make changes/improvements. Your idea of having draconian regulations so "it never happens again" kills businesses.


There are always going to be accidents, workplace deaths its inevitable but a top down overly excessive regulation practice makes it more difficult for someone to run their business

[WRESTLINGFAN]

It really is unbelievably stupid/naive. He/She thinks the free market encourages worker's rights and worker safety. It is the total opposite of everything that has happened and is happening in the real world ever. (Ironically, he/she wants to turn us into Mexico or China- no worker protection (via regulations or unions), but superior bottom-lines/profit margins for corporations.)

Since your concerned about my gender. Im a straight white male, property owner and taxpayer. Or in your terms. THE ENEMY

whenever some tragedy happens, politicians who have no idea how the private sector works scramble to get their fat faces on TV and name a bill after themselves. Does Chuck Schumer know how to run a steel mill?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

It amazes me how these public sector unions cry poverty for their members. How many millions did they piss away lobbying for Obama care and like the pussies they were like the SEIU they were the 1st to get exemptions, How about during election season. All the attack ads on how the opponent wants to take food away from the union members children. Fuck the public sector unions. I hope this union busting wave spreads to states like Florida, and Ohio. Cuomo in ground zero for progressives NY is talking about taking on the union. I would love to see the unions go apeshit over a Democrat taking them on.

These teachers and other public servants want to strike while still getting paid? Imagine if the taxpayers decided to go on strike and decide not to pay their property taxes.

[Dude!]

It amazes me how these public sector unions cry poverty for their members. How many millions did they piss away lobbying for Obama care and like the pussies they were like the SEIU they were the 1st to get exemptions, How about during election season. All the attack ads on how the opponent wants to take food away from the union members children. Fuck the public sector unions. I hope this union busting wave spreads to states like Florida, and Ohio. Cuomo in ground zero for progressives NY is talking about taking on the union. I would love to see the unions go apeshit over a Democrat taking them on.

These teachers and other public servants want to strike while still getting paid? Imagine if the taxpayers decided to go on strike and decide not to pay their property taxes.


the motto of the democrats
is "hypocrita regina" (hypocrites rule)
so you should not be surprised

they are awful, awful people

[WRESTLINGFAN]

the motto of the democrats
is "hypocrita regina" (hypocrites rule)
so you should not be surprised

they are awful, awful people

If McConnell and the other GOP Senators fled to Canada during the Obama care vote Obama would have been calling for their heads on a platter

[WRESTLINGFAN]

You fuckers have no sympathy. I hope this goes viral. The only people supporting these parasites now are the progressives on this board and MSNBC


<object style="height: 390px; width: 640px"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/ipqEzJpeqis?version=3"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ipqEzJpeqis?version=3" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="390"></object>

[WRESTLINGFAN]

This will make the teachers unions go insane

http://www.eduinreview.com/blog/2011/02/chicago-high-school-sends-100-percent-of-graduates-to-college/

[Syd]

These teachers and other public servants want to strike while still getting paid? Imagine if the taxpayers decided to go on strike and decide not to pay their property taxes.

So who's fault is it? The workers that fought for the right to strike or the taxpayers who bent over and shit away all their rights?

[midwestjeff]

This will make the teachers unions go insane

http://www.eduinreview.com/blog/2011/02/chicago-high-school-sends-100-percent-of-graduates-to-college/

It fails to mention that 97 percent of them are going on basketball scholarships.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

So who's fault is it? The workers that fought for the right to strike or the taxpayers who bent over and shit away all their rights?

You are trying to blame the taxpayers. The ones paying their salaries and perks?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

It fails to mention that 97 percent of them are going on basketball scholarships.

They play football too

[Donnie Iris]

How empty and lonely one's life must be to invest this much attention and subsequent pseudo outrage over an issue that has no effect whatsoever on said person.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

How empty and lonely one's life must be to invest this much attention and subsequent pseudo outrage over an issue that has no effect whatsoever on said person.

When my tax dollars are being funneled to the Dept of Education to be doled out to a state 1000 miles away youre damned fucking right I am outraged

You must be a zero liability voter. So it will mean nothing to you when these unions whore themselves out for a federal bailout,

[Donnie Iris]

You must be a zero liability voter. So it will mean nothing to you when these unions whore themselves out for a federal bailout,

A response within minutes, shocking.

Good point, voters like you are clearly a liability.

[epo]

Why are we mad in Wisconsin? Representative Gordon Hintz speaks for me:

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/lZsOKNfNkfQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[WRESTLINGFAN]

A response within minutes, shocking.

Good point, voters like you pay the liabilities of the zero liability voters.



Fixed

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Why are we mad in Wisconsin? Representative Gordon Hintz speaks for me:

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/lZsOKNfNkfQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Better get used to wearing orange Hintz, youll be in a jumpsuit soon

[epo]

Better get used to wearing orange Hintz, youll be in a jumpsuit soon

In the long history of idiotic comments you've ever made, that might be the most idiotic comment of the bunch.

[KnoxHarrington]

In the long history of idiotic comments you've ever made, that might be the most idiotic comment of the bunch.

Don't say that. I'm sure it can get much worse.

I'm about ready to declare this the worst thread in RF.net history. Almost.

[sailor]

Why are we mad in Wisconsin? Representative Gordon Hintz speaks for me:

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/lZsOKNfNkfQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

b'gosh!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

In the long history of idiotic comments you've ever made, that might be the most idiotic comment of the bunch.

Elections have consequences. !!!!!!!!!


Dont like Walker? You can recall him in 2012

[epo]

Elections have consequences. !!!!!!!!!

Dont like Walker? You can recall him in 2012

Bullshit. We have rules in state government and the Republican Caucus shit all over them. They have ZERO respect for those rules and the fine traditions of that legislative body.

Fuck you and the asinine horse you rode in on.

[hanso]

There are too many bozos drinking from the tea party kool-aid.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

i took the liberty of doing my own research. These are the teachers compensation packages in Madison I used as an example. Saw a few of them. It doesnt look like they are living like people in Calcutta.


http://www.postcrescent.com/article/99999999/APC0110/80221166/DataMine-Search-Wisconsin-teacher-salaries?appSession=492829383081081

[hanso]

Now look at how much they pay out of pocket. Health inc. supplies etc.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Bullshit. We have rules in state government and the Republican Caucus shit all over them. They have ZERO respect for those rules and the fine traditions of that legislative body.

Fuck you and the asinine horse you rode in on.

So why was the Senator carousing with union hacks and teachers instead of being under the dome at the state capitol.


Hey Epo, What happened to civility like your lords on the left said we should have? Havent we learned anything from the Giffords shooting?


Mods. Calm him down please.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Now look at how much they pay out of pocket. Health inc. supplies etc.

They qualify for a tax deduction. Plus they have a ton of time off. Those are the tradeoffs.

[epo]

So why was the Senator carousing with union hacks and teachers instead of being under the dome at the state capitol.


Hey Epo, What happened to civility like your lords on the left said we should have? Havent we learned anything from the Giffords shooting?


Mods. Calm him down please.

Once again, you are completely out of your element. This was a Representative, not a Senator and he was visiting a school district while not in scheduled session as if that's a fucking crime.

You obviously have no clue on how government works.

[Tenbatsuzen]

Once again, you are completely out of your element. This was a Representative, not a Senator and he was visiting a school district while not in scheduled session as if that's a fucking crime.

You obviously have no clue on how government works.

I know, isn't it fucking annoying when somebody who thinks they know better chimes in on your local politics?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Once again, you are completely out of your element. This was a Representative, not a Senator and he was visiting a school district while not in scheduled session as if that's a fucking crime.

You obviously have no clue on how government works.

I know that after Walker being in office a year you can have him recalled




So having 14 Senators fleeing like cowards is how government works for you. I see now.

[epo]

I know, isn't it fucking annoying when somebody who thinks they know better chimes in on your local politics?

I knew this shit was coming.

Listen Matty, not once in this thread has WrestlingFan based a single argument in fact, data or proof.

So stick that point of yours where the sun doesn't shine.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I know, isn't it fucking annoying when somebody who thinks they know better chimes in on your local politics?


Speaking of chiming in on local politics



http://climatelab.org/@api/deki/files/603/=Official_portrait_of_Barack_Obama.jpg

[Dude!]

Listen Matty, not once in this thread has WrestlingFan based a single argument in fact, data or proof.

what a joke
your 'facts' are
made up

you probably made up
that sad sister story too

[Tenbatsuzen]

So stick that point of yours where the sun doesn't shine.

Wisconsin?

[Tenbatsuzen]

I knew this shit was coming.

Listen Matty, not once in this thread has WrestlingFan based a single argument in fact, data or proof.

So stick that point of yours where the sun doesn't shine.

And for what it's worth: how is this any different than your anti-Christie agenda, given that a majority of your posts are based on your dislike of Christie rather than fact, data, or proof?

Example: blaming the failure of race to the top on Christie, when it was actually Bret Schundler's fault and he lied about it to Christie. Christie promptly fires him, how EXACTLY was this Christie's fault? You were bent trying to blame it on him.

[epo]

And for what it's worth: how is this any different than your anti-Christie agenda, given that a majority of your posts are based on your dislike of Christie rather than fact, data, or proof?

Example: blaming the failure of race to the top on Christie, when it was actually Bret Schundler's fault and he lied about it to Christie. Christie promptly fires him, how EXACTLY was this Christie's fault? You were bent trying to blame it on him.

Nice re-write of history. I seem to recall it something like this: New Jersey failed to deliver their paperwork into the federal government under their rules. Governor Christie initially bitched about the federal government not letting them re-do or alter the paperwork instead of taking responsibility.

Later, Governor Christie fired someone in an act of accountability after whining like a bitch.

[Syd]

You are trying to blame the taxpayers. The ones paying their salaries and perks?

The taxpayers pay them for a service that they provide. They don't pay them to adhere to their shitty economic ideals no more than I pay anything owned by the Kochs for their retarded libertarian scumbag agenda.

[Tenbatsuzen]

Nice re-write of history. I seem to recall it something like this: New Jersey failed to deliver their paperwork into the federal government under their rules. Governor Christie initially bitched about the federal government not letting them re-do or alter the paperwork instead of taking responsibility.

Later, Governor Christie fired someone in an act of accountability after whining like a bitch.

You remember incorrectly. There was a screwup and Christie was told it was the Government's fault by Schundler. Christie did bitch, and then the Obama admin showed him what really happened. (In that the issue was Schundler's fault, as they asked the team to fix the issue several times)

When Christie realized he had been lied to by Schundler, he promptly fired him. For 1) fucking up and 2) lying to him.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

The taxpayers pay them for a service that they provide. They don't pay them to adhere to their shitty economic ideals no more than I pay anything owned by the Kochs for their retarded libertarian scumbag agenda.

You can elect not to buy anything from the Koch's and not worrying about going to jail. Taxpayers don't have that alternative.


Damned those libertarian ideas to hell !!!!!!

[epo]

You remember incorrectly. There was a screwup and Christie was told it was the Government's fault by Schundler. Christie did bitch, and then the Obama admin showed him what really happened. (In that the issue was Schundler's fault, as they asked the team to fix the issue several times)

When Christie realized he had been lied to by Schundler, he promptly fired him. For 1) fucking up and 2) lying to him.

Sure, Schundler lied. But lets' not re-write what Christie actually did, which is what I ripped him for:

New Jersey Gov Rips U.S. Education Dept. for Loss of Race to the Top Funds (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/08/26/new-jersey-governor-blasts-drones-loss-federal-education-grant/)

Christie said the "clerical error" could have easily been fixed if someone in Washington had picked up the phone.

"That's the stuff that drives people nuts about government and that's the stuff the Obama administration should answer for. Are you guys just down there checking boxes like mindless drones, or are you thinking?" he said.

"When the president comes back to New Jersey, he's going to have to explain to the people of the state of New Jersey why he's depriving them of $400 million that this application earned because one of his bureaucrats in Washington couldn't pick up the phone and ask a question, couldn't go on the Internet and find information, or wouldn't accept the verbal representation" of the state's education commissioner during a follow-up interview, Christie said.

Let's not forget: Christie blasted the White House and the President for a fuck-up on his staff. Trying to re-write that is just crazy talk.

[Syd]

You can elect not to buy anything from the Koch's and not worrying about going to jail. Taxpayers don't have that alternative.


Damned those libertarian ideas to hell !!!!!!

it's pretty difficult not to support them because of how involved they are in the market

Also, as I said earlier, unions are pretty libertarian, seeing as they're a free market solution to labor issues

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Teabaggers might be bad spellers, but they respect the enviornment more.


http://althouse.blogspot.com/2011/02/how-much-respect-did-demonstrators-show.html


Progressives are such peaceful tolerant, open minded non violent people. WWGT ? (What would Giffords Think)


http://www.frugal-cafe.com/public_html/frugal-blog/frugal-cafe-blogzone/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/profane-protest-signs-madison-wisconsin2.jpg


http://www.frugal-cafe.com/public_html/frugal-blog/frugal-cafe-blogzone/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/wisconsin-protest-sign-swallowed-teacher.jpg



http://www.frugal-cafe.com/public_html/frugal-blog/frugal-cafe-blogzone/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/madison-wi-protest-fox-news-sign.jpg


http://www.frugal-cafe.com/public_html/frugal-blog/frugal-cafe-blogzone/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/profane-protest-signs-madison-wisconsin.jpg

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Egyptians stand with the Cairo Cheeseheads


http://www.alternet.org/newsandviews/article/480087/protesters_in_cairo%20%20%27s_tahrir_square_show_s olidarity_with_wisconsin_workers%27_uprising/


I hope no Wisconsonite gets beheaded if they offer a muslim some pork brats and beer.

[weekapaugjz]

http://www.frugal-cafe.com/public_html/frugal-blog/frugal-cafe-blogzone/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/wisconsin-protest-sign-swallowed-teacher.jpg

:thumbup:

[KnoxHarrington]

:thumbup:

Fucking love that sign.

Much more clever than the misspelled racial slurs you see at a teabagger rally.

[KnoxHarrington]

Oh, by the way, that video of a "doctor" handing out excuses that WF got so angry about.

Total bullshit.

http://crooksandliars.com/karoli/wisconsin-protesters-breitbarted-over-bogus

The "doctors" were plants, intentionally put there to get video for Fox News to use.

But, yeah, both sides are just as bad, amirite?

[KnoxHarrington]

And meanwhile, while dumb motherfucker WF keeps getting in a tizzy over public servants merely asking for the right to keep collective bargaining, I bet he doesn't have shit to say about this:

Federal prosecutors in Los Angeles have dropped their criminal investigation into Angelo R. Mozilo, the former chief executive of Countrywide Financial, once the nation’s largest mortgage lender, according to a person with direct knowledge of the investigation.

The closure of the case after two years of inquiry follows last October’s settlement by Mr. Mozilo of insider trading allegations made by the Securities and Exchange Commission. Regulators had contended that Mr. Mozilo sold $140 million in Countrywide stock between 2006 and 2007 even as he recognized that his company was faltering. Countrywide and Bank of America paid $45 million of Mr. Mozilo’s $67.5 million settlement, and he was responsible for the rest.

Without admitting or denying wrongdoing, Mr. Mozilo agreed to be banned from serving as an officer or a director of a public company.

The conclusion by prosecutors that Mr. Mozilo, 72, did not engage in criminal conduct while directing Countrywide will likely fuel broad concerns that few high-level executives of financial companies are being held accountable for the actions that led to the financial crisis of 2008.

Hundreds of billions of dollars have been lost by investors while millions of borrowers have lost their homes. Few of the people who ran the institutions that contributed to the disaster have been found liable.

Except maybe to find a way to blame it on illegal aliens or some dumb shit like that.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/20/business/20mozilo.html?_r=2&pagewanted=print