All things McCain

[JerseySean]

If you want to see a bunch of family pics of the McCain clan, check out McCain's daughter's web site:
http://www.mccainblogette.com/

I'm not sure if Meghan is Cindy's daughter or McCain's daughter from the previous marriage that Cindy broke up. Either way, it looks like the fam is enjoying the campaign trail.

http://www.mccainblogette.com/docs/playlist/

Not for nothing, who would have thought that John McCain's daughter would listen to Siouxue and the Banshees, the Sex Pistols and Black Rock Coalition's own, Bad Brains

[scottinnj]

you could even angle for a threeway with her and her asian friend.

Ohhh dougggieee...

LINGER LOOOOOONGERR! burdipdoodip!

[Yerdaddy]

Sorry, thats sounds great in theory but in practice its a joke. At least the Fox News types are up front with their bias/take. The Times claims to be neutral and is anything but. In much of Europe, Israel, and many other nations you have the Socialist newspaper, The Left/Right wing newspaper, the workers newspaper, Catholic newspaper, etc etc. And they're upfront and honest about who they are. Here we have a media culture which claims on the one hand to be neutral, and yet if you press them they'll tell you its IMPOSSIBLE to take bias out of journalism and still sell newspapers. Unbiased journalism would read like the AP Wire. Boilerplate, boring, facts and figures with no analysis whatsoever. Once you add any analysis or do editing of any kind you have exercised bias of some kind. I'll give the Times credit for presenting more facts than Fox does, who will often only present the facts that support their agenda. But the Times is simply more subtle about their agenda than Fox is. They'll present all of the facts available but weight the piece so the reader comes to what they believe to be the correct conclusion. If you're a reader who politically is center-left, you'll trust the NY Times. If you're a reader who's center-right, you generally don't.

Ask the Newsroom
The McCain Article (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/21/business/media/21askthenewsroom.html?_r=1&oref=slogin)

A recent New York Times article (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/21/us/politics/21mccain.html)examined a number of decisions by Senator John McCain that raised questions about his judgment over potential conflicts of interest. The article included reporting on Mr. McCain’s relationship with a female lobbyist whose clients often had business before the Senate committee led by Mr. McCain. Since publication of the article, The Times has received over 2,000 comments (http://community.nytimes.com/article/comments/2008/02/21/us/politics/21mccain.html), many of them criticizing the handling of the article. Editors and reporters who worked on the article will be answering questions on Friday. Please send yours to askthetimes@nytimes.com.

Things about the NYT that make it uncomparable to Fox "News": the fact that they have an omnibudsman, their willingness to admit mistakes, their space for criticism of their own reporting by the public as well as their other reporters and other promenent people - like Bush administration officials being given plenty of space in the last 7 years to make their case unadulterated by the paper itself - and the fact that every reputable institution in public and private policy-making circles, incorporate the NYT reporting in its own research, while rarely will Fox ever earn that level of trust from institutions with reasons to have objective institutional knowledge. I trusted liberal wackos when I was one. I learned that I sucked through losing arguments in Congressional offices and the solution wasn't to find more moderate sources - it was to find more objective sources. In short, I don't trust the NYT because it's got a moderate liberal voice, (it actually has the voice of an institution that fears getting it's facts wrong because it loses credibility and thus money when it does). I trust the NYT because the Army War College trusts the NYT.

[A.J.]

Ok, this is not meant to knock McCains chick, she's beautiful, but tell me if I'm out of my fucking mind or you agree:

Doesn't John McCain's wife's mannerisms resemble an alien that is wearing a humans skin?

Having a stroke might do that to you.

McCain suffered a near-fatal stroke in April 2004 due to high blood pressure, but after several months of physical therapy to overcome her leg and arm limitations made a mostly full recovery, although she still suffers from some short-term memory loss and difficulties in writing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cindy_Hensley_McCain)

[Dirtybird12]

Newsweek: Sworn deposition McCain gave more than five years ago appears to contradict one part of this week's rebuttal to a New York Times story.

Story here (http://www.newsweek.com/id/114505)

[Bulldogcakes]

Ask the Newsroom
The McCain Article (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/21/business/media/21askthenewsroom.html?_r=1&oref=slogin)



Things about the NYT that make it uncomparable to Fox "News": the fact that they have an omnibudsman, their willingness to admit mistakes, their space for criticism of their own reporting by the public as well as their other reporters and other promenent people - like Bush administration officials being given plenty of space in the last 7 years to make their case unadulterated by the paper itself - and the fact that every reputable institution in public and private policy-making circles, incorporate the NYT reporting in its own research, while rarely will Fox ever earn that level of trust from institutions with reasons to have objective institutional knowledge. I trusted liberal wackos when I was one. I learned that I sucked through losing arguments in Congressional offices and the solution wasn't to find more moderate sources - it was to find more objective sources. In short, I don't trust the NYT because it's got a moderate liberal voice, (it actually has the voice of an institution that fears getting it's facts wrong because it loses credibility and thus money when it does). I trust the NYT because the Army War College trusts the NYT.

I agree that The NYTimes operates on a much higher level than Fox does, and didn't mean to infer that they're eqivalent in any way. To compare the depth you get from any major print source to TV info-tainment will leave Fox, MSNBC, CNN and everyone else except C-SPAN in the dust. So right away its apples and oranges. My point was about their pretense of objectivity. I've lived in Manhattan and met NYTimes reporters, photgraphers, staffers. And its not a cross section of America, as the old saw goes about 'a good newsroom'. It's a cross section of the (very liberal) Upper Westside of Manhattan.

Any non partisan institution SHOULD include the NYTimes as a trusted source, as well as including the more conservative sources like the Washington Times and Wall Street Journal. The Left and Right have valid arguments to make on all sorts of issues, lets just not pretend that the NYTimes is above these labels. It's the pretense of objectivity that bugs me the most.

[TheMojoPin]

And its not a cross section of America, as the old saw goes about 'a good newsroom.'

A good reporter is a good reporter, no matter where they're from, especialy in this day and age.

[TheMojoPin]

The Left and Right have valid arguments to make on all sorts of issues, lets just not pretend that the NYTimes is above these labels. It's the pretense of objectivity that bugs me the most.

Where is this pretense? Until this non-issue of "bias" came up, it was understood that a media outlet was presenting their perspective on the news.

[Yerdaddy]

I agree that The NYTimes operates on a much higher level than Fox does, and didn't mean to infer that they're eqivalent in any way. To compare the depth you get from any major print source to TV info-tainment will leave Fox, MSNBC, CNN and everyone else except C-SPAN in the dust. So right away its apples and oranges. My point was about their pretense of objectivity. I've lived in Manhattan and met NYTimes reporters, photgraphers, staffers. And its not a cross section of America, as the old saw goes about 'a good newsroom'. It's a cross section of the (very liberal) Upper Westside of Manhattan.

Any non partisan institution SHOULD include the NYTimes as a trusted source, as well as including the more conservative sources like the Washington Times and Wall Street Journal. The Left and Right have valid arguments to make on all sorts of issues, lets just not pretend that the NYTimes is above these labels. It's the pretense of objectivity that bugs me the most.

I never claimed that the NYT was without bias. I do claim that its main bias is towards objectivity and I've explained its institutional incentive for objectivity many times, in detail before. This story about McCain only reinforces that mechanism by making the paper itself part of the news. I don't think they shouldn't have run the story because, as the discussion page I linked to shows, they got their facts right and it is relevent, (the story is about McCain's reputation as a man who has learned from his past scandals yet is still potentially embroiled in a conflict of interest - having a close and possibly sexual relationship with a lobbyist with clients with interests before McCain's Congressional committee - while a candidate for President). But what's happening is the NYT is being questioned on the propriety of its reporting and it is responding wtih a level of forthcoming that does not exist in any sense at Fox "News" or other institutions that conservatives hold up as news sources that "represent" their "side" of the political spectrum. Candor and open self-examination do not exist at those locations because their economic interests do not depend on their reputations for getting their facts right, but by serving the informational wants of people on one side of the political spectrum. The more they tow the line - the better their ratings and higher their revenues. In contrast, the more the NYT is seen as carrying anyone's water - the more people on the other side reject them, and, probably more importantly, the less the public institutions will rely on them for information. Public criticism of Fox is constant and I know that if I could tune it in right now I could prove that within a half an hour I could find a provably false statement made by one of their pundits. Yet they wouldn't bother to correct their mistakes because their viewers trust them more if I criticize them.

As to the NYT having a liberal bias: I still welcome a challenge to prove it. I know that for every piece of information you could post that demonstrates a serving of liberal interests I could show one that serves conservative interests. The fact that you've met what you consider liberal elitist reporters from the NYT is anecdotal and if, like you assume, they are injecting their liberal bias into their reporting, that would be demonstrable by analyzing their work. Journalism has a set of rules of structure and when those rules are broken it is usually easily detectable. It is easily detectable in the words of the Fox "News" pundits. It is too often easily detectible in the reportage of the Washington Times, (which is a shame because they sometimes to break important stories, but if you've let your (crazy religious-political) agenda seep into your reporting as much as they have then you don't deserve the public trust afforded the independent newspapers such as the NYT and the Washington Post. But as long as nobody is willing to consent to a fact-check challenge with me or anyone on the liberal bias of the NYT then I will not accept that the paper sits on a certain side of the political spectrum and there needs to be more credibility given to some more conservative source to ballance my or anyone else's information.

In fact this whole issue of conservative and liberal sources of news is a red herring. The difference between the NYT and the conservative sources you're advocating have less to do with political bias but the fundamental structure of their presented information - Fox is fundamentally an opinion-generated organization while the NYT is fundamentally a hard news organization. This is so fundamentally obvious that I don't believe that anyone who still looks to Fox "News" for useful information on current events to be a politically responsible adult. Simply put: if you can't tell by watching Hannity or O'Rielly, or Fox's non-contracted regulars like Coulter or Malkin that these people are liars and that the institution that hosts them is not interested in truth in any way, then it's your own fault for not knowing what's going on in the world. (I'm addressing this group as a whole - not you, BDC.) I hear this from European and Arab liberals - and sometimes conservatives - that it's not Americans' fault that we have such bad governments, but it's the media that is controlled by one group or another that feeds us such bad information. That is such horseshit. The fact that Fox "News'" ratings have only gone up since conservatives have largely recognized that things in Iraq have not gone well, and that that same group has not recognized that the sources of information that had misleadingly, (and through a constant stream of glarlingly obvious logical falacies), and regularly told them for three years that things were going swimmingly, tells me that Fox's viewers don't really want to know what is happening in the world. So my usual response to the claim that it's not our fault is: "Bullshit! We, as Americans, have access to all the good and credible sources of information we could hope to have. We have the best print media in the world - even better than the UK. But we CHOOSE to listen to Fox "News" and Michael Moore even after it's blantantly obvious that they cannot be trusted. So it's OUR FAULT we don't know shit about the rest of the world and we elect people who are so enthusiastic to fuck it up. OUR FAULT!"

Nevertheless, there are conservative-run news organizations that are trusted and influential, like conservative newspapers in Chicago and Flordia and USA Today is decidedly conservative. The Wall Street Journal is probably more influential than the Washinton Post, but their reporting doesn't metriculate down to our level of discussion because they provide so little free content on their website. They target the business and political classes for a reason and they hold much more influence than the public understands. The Christian Science Monitor is run by a socially conservative religious institution, but it is committed to running an objective news organization and it's reputation relfects that.

The problem is not that there aren't conservative voices that are listened to - it's that the ones that deserve credibility are dwarfed in viewership by conservatives, by the disreputable screaming heads on cable TV and radio. That's free-market, but it's also THE CHOICE OF CONSERVATIVES TO LISTEN TO LIARS WHO MAKE THEM FEEL GOOD. When conservatives demand credible journalism from their sources then maybe they'll change. That would be good. What would be very very bad is if conservatives get their way and actually force their shitty sources of dogma and demonization into the public policy realm. Well... come to think of it it's too late. That's what gave us the last 7 years of Bush. Fuck. Nevermind. I forgot that I'm now in the era of hope that McCain's rise has signaled a new era in conservative responsibility. OK, I'm clicking my heels and rubbing my magic wand again, trying to keep my hope alive and my gym socks crunchy!

[epo]

Newsweek: Sworn deposition McCain gave more than five years ago appears to contradict one part of this week's rebuttal to a New York Times story.

Story here (http://www.newsweek.com/id/114505)

Though we've slightly ignored it, Perrynoid is on to the real story here.

This Vicki Iseman story isn't about the alleged affair, but the ramification is about the access of lobbyists to the seemingly pure, straight-talkin' John McCain. This story is about how the telecoms got to the Chair of the committee that rules over them (Commerce Committee).

Now the Washington Post has also run the story that Newsweek did. Click here (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/22/AR2008022202634.html?hpid=topnews).

This angle of the story is not going away.

[JerseySean]

Though we've slightly ignored it, Perrynoid is on to the real story here.

This Vicki Iseman story isn't about the alleged affair, but the ramification is about the access of lobbyists to the seemingly pure, straight-talkin' John McCain. This story is about how the telecoms got to the Chair of the committee that rules over them (Commerce Committee).

Now the Washington Post has also run the story that Newsweek did. Click here (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/22/AR2008022202634.html?hpid=topnews).

This angle of the story is not going away.

I dont see anything wrong with this. The reality is that every Congressman and Senator is DC knows lobbyists. There was nothing unethical done here. McCain wrote a letter asking the FCC to rule on a motion. The reality is that people who become lobbyists, become so because they have access to certain legislators. The question should be whether McCain betrayed the power of his office and it doesnt look like he did. I do agree with you that THIS story could be viewed as legit, while the NYT story made it seem like there was an improper affair.

[Yerdaddy]

I dont see anything wrong with this. The reality is that every Congressman and Senator is DC knows lobbyists. There was nothing unethical done here. McCain wrote a letter asking the FCC to rule on a motion. The reality is that people who become lobbyists, become so because they have access to certain legislators. The question should be whether McCain betrayed the power of his office and it doesnt look like he did. I do agree with you that THIS story could be viewed as legit, while the NYT story made it seem like there was an improper affair...

...because that's what his staff said.

[epo]

Oh wait, the latest NY Times article shows:

Files and McCain Letter Show Effort to Keep Loophole (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/23/us/politics/23lobby.html?_r=2&ref=us&oref=slogin&oref=slogin)

So McCain is lobbying in favor of the Telecomms when it favors the telecomm industry and definitively not the people? This is definitely a chink in the armor of "Straight-Talking John McCain".

[sailor]

Oh wait, the latest NY Times article shows:

Files and McCain Letter Show Effort to Keep Loophole (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/23/us/politics/23lobby.html?_r=2&ref=us&oref=slogin&oref=slogin)

So McCain is lobbying in favor of the Telecomms when it favors the telecomm industry and definitively not the people? This is definitely a chink in the armor of "Straight-Talking John McCain".

"Over the years, Mr. McCain has taken varying positions on broadcast ownership issues. He has supported the relaxation of the ownership rules, but he has also been sharply critical of rules that permit too much concentration of ownership in a single market."

sounds to me like he's willing to look at both sides and decide which he thinks is best in that particular instance.

[epo]

"Over the years, Mr. McCain has taken varying positions on broadcast ownership issues. He has supported the relaxation of the ownership rules, but he has also been sharply critical of rules that permit too much concentration of ownership in a single market."

sounds to me like he's willing to look at both sides and decide which he thinks is best in that particular instance.

Especially when a 32-year old blonde is setting up the meetings.

The story out of this is that McCain's integrity will be questioned on everything now, versus the previous model in which he was questioned on basically very little.

[epo]

More McCain integrity news:

The Democratic National Committee (DNC) will file a complaint against Sen. John McCain (Ariz.) with the Federal Election Commission (FEC) Monday, charging that the presumptive Republican presidential nominee is breaking the law by trying to get out of a public financing agreement.

Link to story here. (http://thehill.com/campaign-2008/dnc-to-file-fec-complaint-against-mccain-2008-02-24.html)

I cannot tell you the irony of this. McCain is in trouble...for breaking the rules of the McCain-Feingold Act (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bipartisan_Campaign_Reform_Act).

[scottinnj]

More McCain integrity news:



Link to story here. (http://thehill.com/campaign-2008/dnc-to-file-fec-complaint-against-mccain-2008-02-24.html)

I cannot tell you the irony of this. McCain is in trouble...for breaking the rules of the McCain-Feingold Act (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bipartisan_Campaign_Reform_Act).

I never liked that law anyway. I may sound like an extremist, but that whole limit on campaign contributions seems bullshit to me. If I believe in a candidate, its my money, I should be able to donate as much as I want.

[JerseySean]

More McCain integrity news:



Link to story here. (http://thehill.com/campaign-2008/dnc-to-file-fec-complaint-against-mccain-2008-02-24.html)

I cannot tell you the irony of this. McCain is in trouble...for breaking the rules of the McCain-Feingold Act (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bipartisan_Campaign_Reform_Act).

This is all bullshit. The FEC wrote a letter to McCain last week and outlined what he needed to do not to break the law. The DNC's lawyers are full of shit on this one but they are trying to make him look like a hypocrite. This wont get any mainstream coverage and its campaign bullshit. I've had lawyers file this shit all the time. its meaningless.

[PhilDeez]

Especially when a 32-year old blonde is setting up the meetings.

The story out of this is that McCain's integrity will be questioned on everything now, versus the previous model in which he was questioned on basically very little.

Funny how Dean is going after McCain for doing something very similar to what he, Dean, did in 04.

This really is not an Integrity issue.

[epo]

Funny how Dean is going after McCain for doing something very similar to what he, Dean, did in 04.

This really is not an Integrity issue.

Normally when a candidate violates the rules which he trumpets, there is no integrity issue in the least bit.

[JerseySean]

Normally when a candidate violates the rules which he trumpets, there is no integrity issue in the least bit.

This is a bullshit charge, it will not be a violation. It was filed to pile on. Do you believe that McCain's lawyers wouldnt know this.

[PhilDeez]

Normally when a candidate violates the rules which he trumpets, there is no integrity issue in the least bit.

Okay, he is trying to withdraw from the puclic finacing program, something other candidates have done in the past, because he does not need it. Violation of rules? No. If this is how your guy needs to get a leg up, go for it.

[epo]

This is seriously getting boring. How many more days in a row is McCain gonna put himself in an integrity situation? Today its about radio host Bill Cunningham who got into trouble for the "Hussein" comments at a McCain rally:

McCain said he had never met the man, but Cunningham claims they’ve met twice. Although McCain said they may have attended the same fundraiser, he doesn’t recall meeting him, noting that he meets thousands of people at various events.

Link here. (http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/02/27/politics/fromtheroad/entry3884076.shtml)

[scottinnj]

Unless McCain and Cunningham were high fiving each other after the rally secretly backstage, I think McCain's rejection of Cunningham's rhetoric speaks for itself.

Especially after today when Cunningham got so pissed off over it, he got on the air, condemned McCain for being a softie and endorsed Hillary for President. His reasoning is that she will make such a mess of things, the country will come back to conservatives like him begging for mercy.

My personal thought is that he needs Hillary in office to complain about to raise his audience, and coincidentally, his ad rates....

[JerseySean]

Unless McCain and Cunningham were high fiving each other after the rally secretly backstage, I think McCain's rejection of Cunningham's rhetoric speaks for itself.

Especially after today when Cunningham got so pissed off over it, he got on the air, condemned McCain for being a softie and endorsed Hillary for President. His reasoning is that she will make such a mess of things, the country will come back to conservatives like him begging for mercy.

My personal thought is that he needs Hillary in office to complain about to raise his audience, and coincidentally, his ad rates....

Councilman Barack will make a mess.

[epo]

Councilman Barack will make a mess.

Unlike First Lady of Arkansas Hillary.

[JerseySean]

Unlike First Lady of Arkansas Hillary.

So would she, McCain is the only one that wouldnt

[epo]

So would she, McCain is the only one that wouldnt

If you think a 3rd Bush term is going to help this nation, then you and I have a completely different view on the world.

[JerseySean]

If you think a 3rd Bush term is going to help this nation, then you and I have a completely different view on the world.

Awww, so cute. DNC talking points from Wednesday, February 13th. I get those forwarded to me from buddys on the D side as well

[keithy_19]

If you think a 3rd Bush term is going to help this nation, then you and I have a completely different view on the world.

I don't think that McCain will be a 3rd Bush term. But that is just me.

[epo]

Awww, so cute. DNC talking points from Wednesday, February 13th. I get those forwarded to me from buddys on the D side as well

Awww.....I've only been saying that since November. But thanks for what Howard Dean said last week.

[scottinnj]

I don't think McCain if President, would be Bush part III, but I am uncomfortable enough with his stance on Iran to stay with Barack.

[HBox]

Awww, so cute. DNC talking points from Wednesday, February 13th. I get those forwarded to me from buddys on the D side as well

The person who broke out the "Chairman Obama" shit shouldn't be calling what anyone else says "cute."

[epo]

I don't think that McCain will be a 3rd Bush term. But that is just me.

If McCain's 100 years in Iraq comments doesn't reek of Bush stank, I don't know what does.

[epo]

Poor John. Seriously, somebody on his team needs to teach him how to work with the press:

Edit: The video doesn't wanna embed so here is the link (http://www.breitbart.tv/html/59014.html).

[Friday]

*sigh*

and this is our next president?

*sigh*

[DiabloSammich]

She shouldn't have pussed out on the "What are you angry?" question.

[epo]

He's angry cuz he's secretly a pirate.

http://www.unconfirmedsources.com/nucleus/media/3/20070716-McCain-Fired.jpg

Arrrrrgggggh.

[Dude!]

what are the clinton brothers hiding in their unreleased tax returns and the restricted files at the library

isn't it better to release the bad stuff now instead of having the press find it out the weekend before the nov election

or are the clintons waiting until the primaries are over and then they release the stuff when they have the nomination in hand

or will they just destroy or hide all the bad stuff so that it never comes out

[Bulldogcakes]

Poor John. Seriously, somebody on his team needs to teach him how to work with the press:

Edit: The video doesn't wanna embed so here is the link (http://www.breitbart.tv/html/59014.html).

Spoken like a true Democrat. Getting pissed off at a NYTimes reporter will only help him with his base, not hurt him. By the time the general election rolls around this is very, very old news. It's also too long to play in a TV ad, unlike Michelle Obama's lil doozy from a few weeks back.

Frankly, I thought it was pretty mild. He should have grabbed the mike and shoved it up her ass after the 3rd attempt. Then he would have my vote.

[epo]

Spoken like a true Democrat. Getting pissed off at a NYTimes reporter will only help him with his base, not hurt him. By the time the general election rolls around this is very, very old news. It's also too long to play in a TV ad, unlike Michelle Obama's lil doozy from a few weeks back.

Frankly, I thought it was pretty mild. He should have grabbed the mike and shoved it up her ass after the 3rd attempt. Then he would have my vote.

The last time I checked Michelle Obama wasn't running for a goddamned thing.

As for John McCain, this does nothing to stop the talk that he is a grumpy old man. Honest to god, his communications team should be ashamed of themselves.

[Bulldogcakes]

She shouldn't have pussed out on the "What are you angry?" question.

Actually, an obvious attempt to bait a presidential candidate on such a personal level like that ought to be below the NYTimes standards. I would bet that reporter just got reassigned for that interview. First, because she acted unprofessionally, second because there's no chance in hell McCain will ever speak to her again. She has just rendered herself useless to the NYTimes, who wants her to illicit as much info as possible from the candidate. You get more info on and off the record if the candidate likes and/or trusts you. She'll get nothing from Mccain ever again. Again, she's rendered herself useless.

[Bulldogcakes]

The last time I checked Michelle Obama wasn't running for a goddamned thing.
As for John McCain, this does nothing to stop the talk that he is a grumpy old man. Honest to god, his communications team should be ashamed of themselves.

She's not, but that won't stop some PAC from running that clip over and over again. Since Obama is Black and Clinton is a woman, the job of his/her opponent and supporters will be to raise doubts about them. 'Change' cuts both ways. For those generally unhappy with things it resonates in a positive way. For those more content it seems too risky.

Although I agree that Republicans tend to do better when they come across as more optimistic. But Reagan had a famous blowup

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and it only helped him.

[NewYorkDragons80]

If McCain's 100 years in Iraq comments doesn't reek of Bush stank, I don't know what does.
We’ve been in South Korea … we’ve been in Japan for 60 years. We’ve been in South Korea 50 years or so. That would be fine with me. As long as Americans are not being injured or harmed or wounded or killed. That’s fine with me, I hope that would be fine with you, if we maintain a presence in a very volatile part of the world where Al Queada is training and equipping and recruiting and motivating people every single day.
You know what he meant. Dude, you're better than that.

[TheMojoPin]

It's odd that Shower"The Democrat"Bench makes little to no appearances in the Republican threads, using his amazing powers of deduction to find "devastating" pieces about them.

Weird.

[sailor]

It's odd that Shower"The Democrat"Bench makes little to no appearances in the Republican threads, using his amazing powers of deduction to find "devastating" pieces about them.

Weird.

which allows you to make that comment. weirder. like he's a democrat triple-agent.

[NewYorkDragons80]

which allows you to make that comment. weirder. like he's a democrat triple-agent.

I was just about to say he'll never see Mojo's post

[HBox]

They had one of these for Barack, now they have one for McCain. (http://johnmccainisyourjalopy.com/)

My favorite so far: John McCain would remember where he put it if you would just shut up for a few minutes, Dolores.

[NewYorkDragons80]

Still no appearance from Showerbench. My feelings are officially hurt

[scottinnj]

Shower Bench is actually HBox in disguise. It's how he exorcises the schizophrenia he's suffering from, by having his conversations with himself here on the board.

[keithy_19]

Shower Bench is actually HBox in disguise. It's how he exorcises the schizophrenia he's suffering from, by having his conversations with himself here on the board.

He must hate himselves...

[HBox]

Three reporters from Arizona, on the condition of anonymity, also let me in on another incident involving McCain's intemperateness. In his 1992 Senate bid, McCain was joined on the campaign trail by his wife, Cindy, as well as campaign aide Doug Cole and consultant Wes Gullett. At one point, Cindy playfully twirled McCain's hair and said, "You're getting a little thin up there." McCain's face reddened, and he responded, "At least I don't plaster on the makeup like a trollop, you cunt." McCain's excuse was that it had been a long day. If elected president of the United States, McCain would have many long days.

......... (http://rawstory.com/news/2008/McCain_temper_boiled_over_in_92_0407.html)

:blink:

[keithy_19]

Bitch had it coming.

:innocent:

[epo]

I'll admit that this is kinda mean....yet funny.

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/RhYfmM1QFxk&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/RhYfmM1QFxk&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

[NewYorkDragons80]

I'll admit that this is kinda mean....yet funny.

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/RhYfmM1QFxk&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/RhYfmM1QFxk&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>
Creative, but I think when they start rattling off the list, it just comes off as nasty and rehearsed and makes McCain's age seem trivial, as it pretty much is.

I also think the age thing backfires because despite his age, he doesn't *look* 72. When people are told he's 72, and keep in mind that he spent 5 1/2 years being tortured, it makes him look even better for not *acting* like a guy in his 70s

[epo]

Cindy McCain: I'll never release my tax returns (http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-05-08-cindy-mccain-taxes_N.htm?csp=34)

WASHINGTON (AP) — Cindy McCain says she will never make her tax returns public even if her husband wins the White House and she becomes the first lady.

"You know, my husband and I have been married 28 years and we have filed separate tax returns for 28 years. This is a privacy issue. My husband is the candidate," Cindy McCain, wife of Republican presidential nominee-in-waiting John McCain, said in an interview aired on NBC's "Today" on Thursday.

Asked if she would release her tax returns if she was first lady, Cindy McCain said: "No."

Straight Talkin' McCains! Sure those crazy democrats can realize their tax returns...but we don't wanna admit that John McCain's wife is filthy fucking rich. That would ruin his image as of man of the people!

[scottinnj]

Cindy McCain: I'll never release my tax returns (http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-05-08-cindy-mccain-taxes_N.htm?csp=34)


WOW! Didn't he jump on the Tax Release Bandwagon when Kerry was competing against Bush in 2004? I could be wrong about that.

OOOOFFFF, this is just bad. I love it when people play the "Michelle Obama is a snobby bitch" card and leave Cindy McCain alone. It's not about the potential First Ladies, but it is about how the candidates earn and spend their money. Cindy is making a BIG mistake with this-the "privacy" argument went out the window the second your husband was on the first ballot. Get over it and play the game stupid.

[epo]

WOW! Didn't he jump on the Tax Release Bandwagon when Kerry was competing against Bush in 2004? I could be wrong about that.

OOOOFFFF, this is just bad. I love it when people play the "Michelle Obama is a snobby bitch" card and leave Cindy McCain alone. It's not about the potential First Ladies, but it is about how the candidates earn and spend their money. Cindy is making a BIG mistake with this-the "privacy" argument went out the window the second your husband was on the first ballot. Get over it and play the game stupid.

Yea...it's not a smart play on behalf of the McCains. If you think that Michelle Obama is a problem....try a bitchy beer heiress with a history of rehab. Good luck!

No wonder the democrats are kicking each other in the nuts for the right to run against Bob Dole....err John McCain.

[scottinnj]

No wonder the democrats are kicking each other in the nuts for the right to run against Bob Dole....err John McCain.


Ouch! I was in Kansas at the time and was a volunteer at ground zero of his campaign headquarters. That one hurt epo!


(even though you are right as rain!)

[epo]

And McCain takes the high road....umm....no. (http://www.newsmax.com/insidecover/hamas_barack_obama/2008/04/28/91539.html)

“I think it is very clear who Hamas wants to be the next president of the United States," McCain said in a conference call to bloggers Friday according to Fox News. "I think that the people should understand that I will be Hamas’ worst nightmare."

I guess my hope of a somewhat clean general election just got kicked in the nuts by McCain himself.

[scottinnj]

And McCain takes the high road....umm....no. (http://www.newsmax.com/insidecover/hamas_barack_obama/2008/04/28/91539.html)



I guess my hope of a somewhat clean general election just got kicked in the nuts by McCain himself.

I think he is surrounding himself with the Republican equivalent of a Hillary Clinton campaign staff.

"HERE COMES THE FAILDOZER!" beep beep

[epo]

I think he is surrounding himself with the Republican equivalent of a Hillary Clinton campaign staff.

"HERE COMES THE FAILDOZER!" beep beep

Here's a good one. McCain, famous for his temper once called his wife a very bad name in public: (http://rawstory.com/news/2008/McCain_temper_boiled_over_in_92_0407.html)

Three reporters from Arizona, on the condition of anonymity, also let me in on another incident involving McCain's intemperateness. In his 1992 Senate bid, McCain was joined on the campaign trail by his wife, Cindy, as well as campaign aide Doug Cole and consultant Wes Gullett. At one point, Cindy playfully twirled McCain's hair and said, "You're getting a little thin up there." McCain's face reddened, and he responded, "At least I don't plaster on the makeup like a trollop, you c**t." McCain's excuse was that it had been a long day. If elected president of the United States, McCain would have many long days.

Seriously, this is going to be like shooting fish in a barrel!

[Judge Smails]

FOX 5 in NYC has a subliminal message for all of us. Oh, that crazy Rupert!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSAOQuLxSdY&eurl=http://www.breitbart.tv/?p=94133

(Oh great, I can't embed videos again. Fuck you Ronfez.net 2.1!)

[NewYorkDragons80]

And McCain takes the high road....umm....no. (http://www.newsmax.com/insidecover/hamas_barack_obama/2008/04/28/91539.html)

I guess my hope of a somewhat clean general election just got kicked in the nuts by McCain himself.

"We like Mr. Obama and we hope he will win the election... He has a vision to change America."
-Ahmed Yousef, chief political adviser to the Prime Minister of Hamas
listen for yourself here (http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives2/2008/04/020315.php) (it's about 4:00 in)

[sailor]

Here's a good one. McCain, famous for his temper once called his wife a very bad name in public: (http://rawstory.com/news/2008/McCain_temper_boiled_over_in_92_0407.html)



Seriously, this is going to be like shooting fish in a barrel!

for all the talk of wanting a clean campaign focusing on the issues, now you're going to make a big deal out mccain calling his wife a dirty word? oh, my! how dare an adult use bad words? naughty, naughty!

[scottinnj]

-Ahmed Yousef, chief political adviser to the Prime Minister of Hamas
listen for yourself here (http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives2/2008/04/020315.php) (it's about 4:00 in)


sailor, to be fair, didn't we scoff the media every time they reported on a european leader "hoping" we would elect john kerry? and i recall a day or two after the 04 election seeing the front page of more then a few international newspapers mocking america and calling us dummies for electing bush to a second term. i personally think it's a non-issue, i could give a fuck who hamas wants to be president. none of the current candidates seem to be as naive as jimmy carter seems to be.

[scottinnj]

for all the talk of wanting a clean campaign focusing on the issues, now you're going to make a big deal out mccain calling his wife a dirty word? oh, my! how dare an adult use bad words? naughty, naughty!

herw we agree, sailor. the fact of this story is that it is hearsay, parroted by some in the media to generate a story that isn't there. i don't give a damn if mccain has a bad temper. i'm more concerned about becoming enrgy-independant and what to do about iraq and afghanistan that will benefit us instead of the continual propping up by our military of a corrupt and lazy government in iraq.

[HBox]

Charlie Black, McCain's chief political adviser, has had an interesting career. (http://obsidianwings.blogs.com/obsidian_wings/2008/05/mccain-and-char.html#more)

[scottinnj]

yeah, that's the kind of press he's going to get for hiring former lobbyists. that mistake will always come back around to bite any candidate running for a national position.

[epo]

McCain is being put into a horrible spot over Virginia Senator Jim Webb's GI Bill, which would essentially give those who served in Iraq & Afghanistan the same type of benefits that the veterans of World War II received. There are 60 co-sponsors in the Senate and over 300 co-sponsors in the House of Representatives.

This bill obviously has overwhelming support and will pass on to the White House. The President is currently threatening to veto it (Link here (http://thinkprogress.org/2008/05/18/webb-gi-bill-veto/)) and John McCain has decided to stand with the President. (Link here (http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/05/15/1025436.aspx).)

This is the perfect example of the rubber hitting the road for the neo-con republicans. They flash their lapel pins, they put their magnets on their SUVs and tell us about how they support the troops. Yet, consistently when benefits are to be given for the soldiers who served in combat, the "money ain't there".

And in running for President, the "Maverick" John McCain has stepped in line with the status quo of his party. I will be completely interested to see how he tries to work himself out of this mess & how much damage this could potentially do to McCain's image.

[scottinnj]

This is a terrific bill. Jim Webb was on O'Reilly and outlined the bill, and as a veteran, it sounds great! These kids getting out of the service now need something like this, especially the beefing up of mental health benefits.

My question is: what is the president's reason for a veto threat? Is it not good enough, does he want more in the bill, or is he just being a penny pincher now after 8 years of having things his way?

I just don't get it.

[epo]

This is a terrific bill. Jim Webb was on O'Reilly and outlined the bill, and as a veteran, it sounds great! These kids getting out of the service now need something like this, especially the beefing up of mental health benefits.

My question is: what is the president's reason for a veto threat? Is it not good enough, does he want more in the bill, or is he just being a penny pincher now after 8 years of having things his way?

I just don't get it.

Penny Pinchers (from the MSNBC link) (http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/05/15/1025436.aspx)

The Administration sided with McCain, arguing benefits that were too generous and too early in active duty service would hurt reenlistments -- and would lure service members off of military bases and onto college campuses. "My job is to get people to stay in the military, not only to join, but to stay as well," McCain said from the campaign trail in Ohio Wednesday.

"Support the troops" my foot.

[scottinnj]

McCain is being put into a horrible spot over Virginia Senator Jim Webb's GI Bill.

And in running for President, the "Maverick" John McCain has stepped in line with the status quo of his party. I will be completely interested to see how he tries to work himself out of this mess & how much damage this could potentially do to McCain's image.

I'm convinced he has a campaign staff that is afraid the base of the Republican Party is not going to support him in November. This type of bill is perfect for McCain. He can (if he changes his mind in time, but I'm afraid it's too late) support the bill, which has very popular support, and at the same time be bucking the president which would maintain his "maverick" image. But instead of campaigning towards independants, the message is all over the place.

Combine that with Obama staying on track. Sincerity goes a long way, even if you don't like everything you hear. If Hillary doesn't machine gun her way out of the nomination, but leaves with grace, the Democrats will be united, the base will be there, and Obama will only have to concentrate on winning moderates and independants over while McCain keeps throwing out a confused message to the American people.

[scottinnj]

In the simplest terms, the Webb bill would effectively pay for tuition and housing at a four-year public college for those serving at least three years of active duty. The McCain measure isn't as generous, as it increases existing education benefits by $400 a month for the same time served: from $1,100 to $1,500.


That's a non-issue for me. Here in NJ if you are a member of the National Guard, all you have to do is complete basic and advanced training, show up for your weekend drill dates, and do your two/three week a year deployment, and any state accredited school that accepts you is paid for, on top of any bonuses and pay/benefits you receive as a Guardsman.

Active duty personel should recieve the same treatment. 'Nuff said.

[epo]

Fish in a goddamned barrel:

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[scottinnj]

........................McCain reject's pastor's endorsement. (http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D90QUHPG0&show_article=1)


I think it was the whole "Hitler was good for the Jews" comments:

In his sermon, Hagee said, "Then God sent a hunter. A hunter is someone with a gun, and he forces you. Hitler was a hunter. ... How did it happen? Because God allowed it to happen. Why did it happen? Because God said, 'My top priority for the Jewish people is to get them to come back to the land of Israel.'"

[NewYorkDragons80]

"Support the troops" my foot.
As a member of the active-duty military, I can say that McCain is right on this. We shouldn't be increasing the benefits for the 4 and out guys, we should be increasing the benefits for the guys who are worth investing in.

[scottinnj]

As a member of the active-duty military, I can say that McCain is right on this. We shouldn't be increasing the benefits for the 4 and out guys, we should be increasing the benefits for the guys who are worth investing in.

Well, I humbly disagree. When my father got out of the Marine Corps in 1948, he served in the Marine Reserves until 1952. But he was a "4 and out" trooper, as were hundreds of thousands of others who were drafted back then to fight the war.

It isn't the length of time these soldiers are serving, it is they are serving in a time of war, which is eating up a lot of their opportunities for college and civilian careers due to stop loss and multiple tours in combat zones that negate their ability for college educations through the correspondence courses offered by the Army.

And let's not forget they volunteered for this type of duty, and unlike veterans like myself who fought 100 hour wars and went home, these guys/girls aren't able to do so. So I can see the case for higher benefits for today's soldiers vs. veterans such as myself. Our current troop forces are trying to do once again what my father's crop of veterans did: save the world from a facist upheaval.


I say they deserve it. The soldiers who join and get out after one term of enlistment are no less honorable in their service then those who re-enlist and make the military their career.

[NewYorkDragons80]

Who should be McCain's running mate? Charlie Crist and Tim Pawlenty are both governors of swing states and have similarly moderate views and both were equally critical to McCain's nomination. Their status as beltway outsiders helps reinforce McCain's insurgent campaign. Both are good choices, but seem unlikely given the apparent need for McCain to run with a more traditional conservative. Then again, if McCain is truly looking to take the Republicans back to the middle as I hope he is, he may just surprise everyone and nominate one of these fellas.

Condoleezza has too much working against her and is way too establishment to do any kind of good in the current political climate.

Huckabee has a lot of charisma, but his recent controversial comments almost definitely prevent him from running. Besides, as his MSNBC appearances seem to be confirming, he is looking to get a TV show.

Romney somehow took up the conservative mantle despite being a fairly liberal governor of Massachusetts. I don't see him energizing anyone or any genuine excitement about the prospects of a Romney VP slot... except for old Mitt himself.

Bobby Jindal of Louisiana is from the south, 100% conservative, but is an Indian-American. If McCain is shooting for the base, Jindal's not the best choice given his ethnicity (unfortunately).

I really like Alaska governor Sarah Palin. She's pro-life, life-long gun-owner, a reformer (saved Alaska's Republican Party from Murkowski family corruption), pro-gay rights, and a solid federalist. And I think the South relates to Alaska pretty well. It's basically Texas with snow and without so much trash. Besides, Palin's a bona fide milf

[NewYorkDragons80]

I say they deserve it. The soldiers who join and get out after one term of enlistment are no less honorable in their service then those who re-enlist and make the military their career.
It's not a question of honor. Everyone who signs up and puts their ass on the line is equally honorable. It's a matter of how much the government should invest in a soldier/sailor/airman/marine who they're only going to have for 4 years. Instead, they should extend those benefits for those who re-enlist and extend their commitment.

[scottinnj]

It's not a question of honor. Everyone who signs up and puts their ass on the line is equally honorable.

You and I both agree with that. I said that not directed to you, but because I'm afraid of the rhetoric from the White House and the McCain camp is being interpreted by people as "career soldiers are more important then the short-timers" If you make the military your career, on average if you join up at 18-20 years old, serve the full extent of 20 years, you retire at around 40 years old with a pension and full medical, and you are still young enough to establish a second source of income.
It's not even the college benefits I'm worried about. And those who do 4 years in my opinion don't deserve the same retirement benefits that retired soldiers get. I just want increased VA protection for wounds and injuries that are service-related, and I'd like to see more provisions for mental health PTSD therapy.
I'm flexible on the college benefits. I'd like to see an increase to reflect the new average price of tuition vs. when I was got out 15 years ago, but if I need to flex on this, I'd stick with the medical benefits and let go of the college part.

[A.J.]

........................McCain reject's pastor's endorsement. (http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D90QUHPG0&show_article=1)


I think it was the whole "Hitler was good for the Jews" comments:

Hagee has referred to the Roman Catholic Church as "the great whore" and called it a "false cult system."

Yeah, it's the only one.

In his sermon, Hagee said, "Then God sent a hunter. A hunter is someone with a gun, and he forces you. Hitler was a hunter. ... How did it happen? Because God allowed it to happen. Why did it happen? Because God said, 'My top priority for the Jewish people is to get them to come back to the land of Israel.'"

Couldn't omnipotent God just have miracled the Jews back to Israel? Wouldn't that have saved a lot more time and heartache?

Did God have a press conference where he outlined his plans for the Jews? I must have missed that.

[NewYorkDragons80]

You and I both agree with that. I said that not directed to you, but because I'm afraid of the rhetoric from the White House and the McCain camp is being interpreted by people as "career soldiers are more important then the short-timers" If you make the military your career, on average if you join up at 18-20 years old, serve the full extent of 20 years, you retire at around 40 years old with a pension and full medical, and you are still young enough to establish a second source of income.
It's not even the college benefits I'm worried about. And those who do 4 years in my opinion don't deserve the same retirement benefits that retired soldiers get. I just want increased VA protection for wounds and injuries that are service-related, and I'd like to see more provisions for mental health PTSD therapy.
I'm flexible on the college benefits. I'd like to see an increase to reflect the new average price of tuition vs. when I was got out 15 years ago, but if I need to flex on this, I'd stick with the medical benefits and let go of the college part.
Well, when it comes to veterans' medical benefits, McCain unveiled a healthcare plan long before any other candidate was talking about it.Veterans should get a card to use at any health care facility so they won't have to wait for routine care at veterans' hospitals
Financially, the career people ARE more important than short term servicemen. Not for VA benefits, but DEFINITELY for college tuition. McCain is absolutely right: grant incentives to those who stay in before you extend them for those who don't. If I graduate pilot training, I owe the Air Force 10 years. Why? Because that training cost them an assload of money. As much as the Air Force is a bunch of nincompoops with money, they have a right to keep me around after they spent so much money.

Now let's talk about McCain's possible running mates and why it should be Sarah Palin

[scottinnj]

i'm mobile right now-wifey needs the laptop to chastise a wayward nurse at her work.....otherwise i'd be asking for pics of this delicious g.i.l.f.

cya!

[epo]

So McCain has consistently against 527s in his career....and yet this from Vets For Freedom:

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/701RVV7MbT4&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/701RVV7MbT4&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

And guess who is on their Policy Board? John McCain's two best friends, Joe Lieberman and Lindsey Graham. Link here. (http://www.vetsforfreedom.org/about/advisors2.aspx)

Straight Talk is dead.

[NewYorkDragons80]

So McCain has consistently against 527s in his career....and yet this from Vets For Freedom:

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/701RVV7MbT4&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/701RVV7MbT4&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

And guess who is on their Policy Board? John McCain's two best friends, Joe Lieberman and Lindsey Graham. Link here. (http://www.vetsforfreedom.org/about/advisors2.aspx)

Straight Talk is dead.
Yeah it looks bad, but if McCain isn't on the board himself, I'm willing to believe he had nothing to do with this. Also, while Lieberman and Graham serve on the board of advisors, do you really think they produce their commercials? The only problem McCain would have with this is that it singles out Obama. It's not dirty or cheap, but it does grasp at straws. I mean, the Huffington Post and countless other organizations have become shameless vehicles to chip away at McCain while Obama and Hillary attack each other. But I'm not going to imply that Obama or Hillary is pulling the strings of any of the liberal 527's

[scottinnj]

i gotta give mccain a bit of a break on the 527s. they are the reason he was attacked so badly in the nomination for the 2000 elections. plus a bunch of state republican chairman are thumbing their noses at mccain and running ads mccain objects to. he may be the rnc nominee, but enough republicans hate him enough to ignore the tradition of listening to the party leader when he objects to campaign tactics that aren't part of his rhetoric.

[epo]

i gotta give mccain a bit of a break on the 527s. they are the reason he was attacked so badly in the nomination for the 2000 elections. plus a bunch of state republican chairman are thumbing their noses at mccain and running ads mccain objects to. he may be the rnc nominee, but enough republicans hate him enough to ignore the tradition of listening to the party leader when he objects to campaign tactics that aren't part of his rhetoric.

If anything Scott, I would see that as a more damning argument against McCain. I've believed that Senator McCain is a man of honor, a man of high standards. If anyone should be above the 527 muck, it should be McCain because of his experiences in 2000.

[NewYorkDragons80]

If anything Scott, I would see that as a more damning argument against McCain. I've believed that Senator McCain is a man of honor, a man of high standards. If anyone should be above the 527 muck, it should be McCain because of his experiences in 2000.
But he has nothing to do with the group; 2 friends of his are part of it. He's STILL getting hammered by 527's. If you're so disgusted, then don't vote for Obama because he's complicit in attacks on McCain by SEIU, Moveon.org, New Democratic Network, or any of the countless 527's whose support he has enjoyed.

[epo]

But he has nothing to do with the group; 2 friends of his are part of it. He's STILL getting hammered by 527's. If you're so disgusted, then don't vote for Obama because he's complicit in attacks on McCain by SEIU, Moveon.org, New Democratic Network, or any of the countless 527's whose support he has enjoyed.

I would be equally disgusted if Deval Patrick or Bill Richardson were a part of a 527.

Of course those two friends of McCain's aren't just friends, they both hold chairs on McCain's election campaign. And both friends are policy advisors for this particular 527. Of course, such a position is a direction violation of McCain's ethics policy for his campaign.

"No person with a McCain Campaign title or position may participate in a 527 or other independent entity that makes public communications that support or oppose any presidential candidate."

Link here. (http://fe63.news.sp1.yahoo.com/s/politico/20080516/pl_politico/10394)

So McCain is obviously turning a blind eye to this violation of his campaign policy. That is an ethical problem.

[HBox]

I do not understand why McCain has so loaded up his inner circle with these people. It's like he's so convinced of his own infallibility that he doesn't care what anything looks like. (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24844889)

Republican presidential candidate Sen. John McCain’s national campaign general co-chair was being paid by a Swiss bank to lobby Congress about the U.S. mortgage crisis at the same time he was advising McCain about his economic policy, federal records show.

[Bulldogcakes]

I do not understand why McCain has so loaded up his inner circle with these people. It's like he's so convinced of his own infallibility that he doesn't care what anything looks like. (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24844889)

That doesn't strike me as unusual. Pretty tame stuff. Stuff like that goes on all the time in Washington on both sides. People have to make a living, and in DC they usually do it lobbying for someone. That doesn't necessarily mean this guy is dirty or corrupt, or that Mccain should automatically exclude him. The main thing is that everyone is up front about it, and it seems obvious to me that was done in this case.

What bothers you about this?

[NewYorkDragons80]

So McCain is obviously turning a blind eye to this violation of his campaign policy. That is an ethical problem.
Read my first reply to this. I think it's pretty likely that Graham and Lieberman probably didn't know about these ads.
From the site:
Established by combat veterans of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan on November 11, 2007, Veterans Day, VFFPAC will endorse and offer extended support through financial contributions and media assistance to Republicans, Democrats, and Independents who support victory in the Global War on Terrorism. Bottom Line: VFFPAC will support those who support victory — that is our only litmus test.
Maybe I'm too ready to defend the McCain camp, but I really don't think these 2 fellas are sitting around approving or disapproving ads six months after the photo op and honorary position.

[epo]

Read my first reply to this. I think it's pretty likely that Graham and Lieberman probably didn't know about these ads.
From the site:

Maybe I'm too ready to defend the McCain camp, but I really don't think these 2 fellas are sitting around approving or disapproving ads six months after the photo op and honorary position.

I agree they probably are not participating in advertising creation, however they do have positions in the 527. And the issue is the rule by the McCain camp that I'll quote again:

"No person with a McCain Campaign title or position may participate in a 527 or other independent entity that makes public communications that support or oppose any presidential candidate."

Both Lieberman & Graham clearly break that rule.

You can't claim to be "straight-talkin" and break your own rules. You are going to get called on it everytime.

[Sue Johanson]

Did you know?

Americans are a decade behind Canada when it comes to sex education and understanding their bodies

It's the truth!

[epo]

I thought Vladimir Putin was from Russia?

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/jfealLrWLIY&hl=en"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/jfealLrWLIY&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[jonyrotn]

McCain? Shit..I thought this thread was to announce McDonald's started to sell cokecaine..When will that fucking clown realize 'happy' meals are sold by the gram..

JK..I could eat a 'Box' lunch eight days a week..

[KnoxHarrington]

A good example of why you should monitor feedback on your site, from John McCain's golf product page:

http://store.johnmccain.com/ReviewsList.asp?ProductCode=FDR2583&Reviews=Y

A sampler, before they're pulled:

"This set has no juice, no drive. It's practically tailor made for doddering old retards who can't even muster the brainpower to figure out that Putin isn't "The President of Germany"!!!!! It should have a hollow shaft that you can fill with Geritol, steroids and vitamin-pee just for those occasions when you're afraid your bones might crumble into dust. Oh, and in case I didn't mention it, John McCain is a doddering old retard who shouldn't be allowed out of his wheelchair, let alone into the White House!

That is all."


"
Defective balls June 10, 2008
Reviewer: Charles Keating from Houston Texas United States
I was expecting the McCain balls to fly straight, but the lobbyists must have gotten to them, cause the balls seem to go in random directions based on who's paying for lunch. Maybe they lost the real McCain balls in Iraq, or maybe they slipped in some Richard Nixon balls by mistake."

"Thank You John for the reminder... June 9, 2008
Reviewer: from Northern Minnesota
That we don't need to sacrifice anything...if we don't golf, the terrorists have won. In order to keep the economy strong, we need to support places which purchase pesticides and herbicides...fouling the waters, killing birds...Jesus is returning and he's going to be angry if we're not out golfing in times like these...having dominion over the earth and ruining an otherwise beautiful walk in the woods.

(And let's continue to torture the detainees...remember all the reliable information it elicited from you...maybe we can get them to make radio broadcasts)"


Comedy gold.

[angrymissy]

"If we don't golf, the terrorists win"

:clap:

[A.J.]

Defective balls

I blame his time in the Hanoi Hilton for that.

[epo]

I seriously don't think McCain understands that we live in a YouTube world:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/FyBwMy27Aoc&hl=en"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/FyBwMy27Aoc&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

This will continue to be a problem for McCain, especially the ways he's shifted over the past 8 years in views.

[epo]

I commented that McCain doesn't know that we live in a YouTube world....but I guess the real answer is in this video:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/_R9wnMVZE_Q&hl=en"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/_R9wnMVZE_Q&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

When asked if he owns a PC or a Mac, McCain answers "Neither, I'm an illiterate...."

Ahhhh....I see now.

[djjd]

when i saw the headline i thought maybe anthony had made a function faux pas


McCain event canceled over fundraiser's rape 'joke'
Posted: 02:35 PM ET

WASHINGTON (AP) — Questions from the media prompted Republican John McCain to cancel a fundraiser at the home of a Texas oilman who once joked that women should give in while being raped.

The Texan, Republican Clayton "Claytie" Williams, made the joke during his failed 1990 campaign for governor against Democrat Ann Richards. Williams compared rape to the weather, saying, "As long as it's inevitable, you might as well lie back and enjoy it."

He also compared Richards to the cattle on his ranch, saying he would "head her and hoof her and drag her through the dirt."

Williams' comments made national news at the time and remain easy to find on the Internet. Even so, McCain's campaign said it hadn't known about the remarks.

"These were obviously incredibly offensive remarks that the campaign was unaware of at the time it was scheduled," McCain spokesman Brian Rogers said. "It's positive that he did apologize at the time, but the comments are nonetheless offensive."

The campaign said it would not return money Williams had raised for McCain because the contributions came from other individuals supporting McCain and not from Williams. Williams told his hometown newspaper, the Midland Reporter-Telegram, that he had raised more than $300,000 for McCain.

[mrr0b0t0420]

Grow some balls McCain.

[K.C.]

Typical politician move.

But honestly, how can you blame McCain...

The fact that something that happened publicly in 1990 (almost 20 f'ing years ago), and I'm sure has been hashed out in the media in Texas before, can haunt a presidential campaign in 2008 shows how fucked up American politics is.

He knows the game he has to play.

[MadMatt]

I blame McCain's staff for this. They should have known that even planning to go to a fund raiser hosted by Clayton Williams would be a bad idea.

The guy is still a political pariah in most parts of the country, and you would have to be retarded not to think his infamous "rape comment" wouldn't pop back up - especially given the current political climate.

[A.J.]

The Texan, Republican Clayton "Claytie" Williams, made the joke during his failed 1990 campaign for governor against Democrat Ann Richards. Williams compared rape to the weather, saying, "As long as it's inevitable, you might as well lie back and enjoy it."

Hoo hoo -- he ripped off Bobby Knight.

[high fly]

Notice that Mccain is keeping the rape apologists's money.

I think I can explain this.

You see, McCain has already done the spade work to lock up the all-important "philanderer vote."
But his staff did some checking and discovered that the oft-ignored "spouses of philanderers vote" could very well offset the "philanderer vote."
So, wisely, McCain is now angling for the "rapist vote."

[spoon]

It'd be amazing if an election EVER centered on the issues, ideas of the the candidates versus this shit. However, this is a sad sad man with money and it's the only reason he has any relevance at all.

[epo]

McCain is being put into a horrible spot over Virginia Senator Jim Webb's GI Bill, which would essentially give those who served in Iraq & Afghanistan the same type of benefits that the veterans of World War II received. There are 60 co-sponsors in the Senate and over 300 co-sponsors in the House of Representatives.

This bill obviously has overwhelming support and will pass on to the White House. The President is currently threatening to veto it (Link here (http://thinkprogress.org/2008/05/18/webb-gi-bill-veto/)) and John McCain has decided to stand with the President. (Link here (http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/05/15/1025436.aspx).)

This is the perfect example of the rubber hitting the road for the neo-con republicans. They flash their lapel pins, they put their magnets on their SUVs and tell us about how they support the troops. Yet, consistently when benefits are to be given for the soldiers who served in combat, the "money ain't there".

And in running for President, the "Maverick" John McCain has stepped in line with the status quo of his party. I will be completely interested to see how he tries to work himself out of this mess & how much damage this could potentially do to McCain's image.

So remember John McCain's position AGAINST the GI Bill passed by Jim Webb? Listen to this shit:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Z1aJGaRxDCM&hl=en"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Z1aJGaRxDCM&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

This guy doesn't realize that we can access his statements from a month ago. Senator McCain...we've got this thing called the internet.

But seriously, this is just horrible framing on McCain's behalf.

[scottinnj]

Wow, epo is quoting himself.


This has just become the super-ultra-mega-thread of the Politics and Current Events forum.


LONG LIVE EPO!

[epo]

Wow, epo is quoting himself.


This has just become the super-ultra-mega-thread of the Politics and Current Events forum.


LONG LIVE EPO!

I didn't wanna quote myself, but I wanted to give some context for McCain's obvious bullshit on this important bill. Talk about being stuck in a real bad situation!

[scottinnj]

I got it. It's just another reason why I can't vote for this guy. His attitude on the military seems to be stuck in 1960s mode when the draft was still in place.

He is just so out of touch. And that is saying a lot, because his son is a Lieutenant serving in the Marines and is in Iraq.

[epo]

I got it. It's just another reason why I can't vote for this guy. His attitude on the military seems to be stuck in 1960s mode when the draft was still in place.

He is just so out of touch. And that is saying a lot, because his son is a Lieutenant serving in the Marines and is in Iraq.

It's a shame too.

In many ways I feel terrible ripping on McCain as he has obviously done so much for this nation. But at the end of the day, this guy has obviously sold his sold to the Republican Party for the nomination that I just can't respect him anymore.

[HBox]

Hanoi Hilton jailer calls McCain a damn dirty liar, says he'd vote for him. (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25418965/)

[scottinnj]

It's a shame too.

In many ways I feel terrible ripping on McCain as he has obviously done so much for this nation. But at the end of the day, this guy has obviously sold his sold to the Republican Party for the nomination that I just can't respect him anymore.


Don't be. You've been one of the most respectful on this board while bringing up legit criticism.

I'm hoping after his first head-to-head with Obama after the nominations will get him back to reality so we can have a good campaign.

So far:
Not going to vote for McCain, unless he goes back to the 2000 McCain we all respect.

Still probably going to vote for Obama, unless something big happens. And with everything that's been thrown at him so far, "big" probably means a sex tape where he is with that martian that likes looking in girl's bedrooms.



http://media.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/content/img/photos/2008/05/30/alienpicture_t600.jpg

[A.J.]

Hanoi Hilton jailer calls McCain a damn dirty liar, says he'd vote for him. (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25418965/)

I'm not a religious man but I hope there IS a hell so this guy can burn in it for what he did to McCain and all the other POWs.

[HBox]

McCain will not be charged for posing as bride in illegal gay wedding. (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25336573/)

[NewYorkDragons80]

In many ways I feel terrible ripping on McCain as he has obviously done so much for this nation. But at the end of the day, this guy has obviously sold his sold to the Republican Party for the nomination that I just can't respect him anymore.
I'm not trying to be confrontational, I'd just like to know where he "changed" or "sold out". He compromised on immigration, but that's the only thing that really comes to mind.

[Jujubees2]

I'm not trying to be confrontational, I'd just like to know where he "changed" or "sold out". He compromised on immigration, but that's the only thing that really comes to mind.

Let's see.

Bush tax cuts

Abortion

Torture

Jerry Falwell

The new GI Bill

http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/9111.html

[NewYorkDragons80]

Let's see.

Bush tax cuts

Abortion

Torture

Jerry Falwell

The new GI Bill

http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/9111.html
Bush tax cuts - he doesn't want to repeal existing tax cuts.

Abortion - He's always been pro-life. In 2000, he basically admitted he was on the fence about whether or not overturning Roe v Wade would be good or bad, but he's always been pro-life.

Torture - He's always been against torture. Torture was always illegal, then a new bill was introduced that proclaimed to be anti-torture and snuck in amendments that would've forced the CIA to use Army tactics and McCain voted against it.

Jerry Falwell - Fine. But what difference does that make?

The new GI Bill - Was bullshit from word go. It extended benefits for people on the first enlistment while offering no incentives for reenlistments. In other words, it would seriously damage the enlisted corps in the military.

[epo]

Bush tax cuts - he doesn't want to repeal existing tax cuts.

Abortion - He's always been pro-life. In 2000, he basically admitted he was on the fence about whether or not overturning Roe v Wade would be good or bad, but he's always been pro-life.

Torture - He's always been against torture. Torture was always illegal, then a new bill was introduced that proclaimed to be anti-torture and snuck in amendments that would've forced the CIA to use Army tactics and McCain voted against it.

Jerry Falwell - Fine. But what difference does that make?

The new GI Bill - Was bullshit from word go. It extended benefits for people on the first enlistment while offering no incentives for reenlistments. In other words, it would seriously damage the enlisted corps in the military.

Like I've said before, I don't think McCain or his people understand that this is a YouTube world:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/D5-DnNsoA5Y&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/D5-DnNsoA5Y&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[epo]

In other McCain camp news, Florida Governor Charlie Crist announced that he is "engaged" to his "girlfriend" Carol Rome. Link to story here. (http://www.palmbeachpost.com/blogs/content/shared-blogs/palmbeach/floridapolitics/entries/2008/07/03/crists_fifth_engagement.html)

Crist has been rumored to be on McCain's short list for VP. Of course many believe this is a move by the governor to make himself more attractive for that position.

(Note: There have been large rumors for years that Crist is very, very gay. Girlfriend in Niagra Falls gay.)

[epo]

If you want to see John McCain's biggest problem, look no further than this Gallup polling chart:

http://images.dailykos.com/images/user/426/gallupA.jpg

68% of the country is "concerned" about his being too much like Bush. And as Obama veers to the middle, McCain seems to be shifting to the right. I honestly don't know what his advisers are thinking.

http://static.flickr.com/61/224082420_3c512477bb.jpg

Happy November democrats!

[Zorro]

I'm not trying to be confrontational, I'd just like to know where he "changed" or "sold out". He compromised on immigration, but that's the only thing that really comes to mind.

Campaign Finance

Iraq Pullout

Late Term Abortions

Guns

...oh wait that's the other guy...

[keithy_19]

Obama and McCain are both politicians. They both flip to get votes. At the end of the day, I don't think either person will change much that is going on in the world. But that's just my uninformed opinion.

[NewYorkDragons80]

(Note: There have been large rumors for years that Crist is very, very gay. Girlfriend in Niagra Falls gay.)
On a scale of 1 to 10...

Leave the guy alone. This isn't Larry Craig we're talking about. This is a moderate who supports civil unions and hasn't used the gay community as his punching bag during election season. Besides, you don't know that he's gay, so it's really none of any of our business.

Epo, you've really been on a cold streak lately.

[epo]

On a scale of 1 to 10...

Leave the guy alone. This isn't Larry Craig we're talking about. This is a moderate who supports civil unions and hasn't used the gay community as his punching bag during election season. Besides, you don't know that he's gay, so it's really none of any of our business.

Epo, you've really been on a cold streak lately.

I don't really give a shit about Charlie Crist's anything. The rumors about Crist aren't anything that I've made up. And furthermore, this is exactly the way that those Veep vetting teams are looking at things & I found Crist's timing to be fascinating.

Would you rather that I mention that Insider Advantage (http://www.southernpoliticalreport.com/story.aspx?sid=460) has McCain only winning Georgia by 2 points in the latest poll?

McCain: 46%
Obama: 44%

[HBox]

I found the whole "Victory Savings" and deficit thing by McCain's campaign to be incredibly depressing. I haven't seen a more shameless attempt to capitalize on general economic ignorance by any candidate.

[epo]

The manner in which McCain continues to distort his voting record and outright lie to people is just getting old. What's really getting old is the manner in which he tries to link himself to the new GI Bill, a bill he greatly opposed.

Here is an example of a fellow veteran calling McCain on his bullshit, and the "Straight Talker" not liking it.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/hzr3pdXqZ98&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/hzr3pdXqZ98&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Anybody else notice the manner in which people are using the phrase "Straight Talk Express" as a means to call McCain on his bullshit?

[Jujubees2]

Looks like the McCain camp can't get its numbers right either

A Spanish-language McCain radio ad gets nearly all its facts wrong. (http://www.newsweek.com/id/145031)

[NewYorkDragons80]

I don't really give a shit about Charlie Crist's anything.
I confused your posting the information for giving a shit. My mistake.
Would you rather that I mention that Insider Advantage (http://www.southernpoliticalreport.com/story.aspx?sid=460) has McCain only winning Georgia by 2 points in the latest poll?
McCain: 46%
Obama: 44%
They're polls. How often have the polls been right so far this year?

[epo]

I confused your posting the information for giving a shit. My mistake.

I think a candidate for VP of the USA getting married possibly for the sake of image in interesting. I don't care about his sexuality. I believe that the rumors prompted the move, hence making it a story. Happy?

They're polls. How often have the polls been right so far this year?

Actually, outside of New Hampshire & Nevada in the primaries, they've been pretty amazing this year.

[sailor]

don't you get tired of posting that obama's flawless and everyone else is a moron? we get it, you like him.

[epo]

don't you get tired of posting that obama's flawless and everyone else is a moron? we get it, you like him.

Not flawless at all.

But why don't you try pointing out Obama's bullshit or defending McCain. They are running for President of the freaking United States, not me. But hell, if I'm all you've got this year...then the Republican Party is in worse shape than I thought.

[sailor]

Not flawless at all.

But why don't you try pointing out Obama's bullshit or defending McCain. They are running for President of the freaking United States, not me. But hell, if I'm all you've got this year...then the Republican Party is in worse shape than I thought.

it has nothing to do with who i like. i've felt this way since the democratic primaries, where obama was my favorite of the lot.

[epo]

it has nothing to do with who i like. i've felt this way since the democratic primaries, where obama was my favorite of the lot.

Which is perfectly fine. But I'm still waiting for someone to prove me wrong on one of my single points about John McCain in this thread. I have tried to consistently link to You Tube videos of the man or direct & credible media sources about him.

[NewYorkDragons80]

Which is perfectly fine. But I'm still waiting for someone to prove me wrong on one of my single points about John McCain in this thread.
Go to the last page. You're not waiting, you're just not paying attention. I explained alleged "flip-flops" and you posted a video that repeated the original claims.

[epo]

Bush tax cuts - he doesn't want to repeal existing tax cuts.


I'll do these one at a time. It's much cleaner that way.

In 2000, McCain was against the Bush Tax Cuts. This was chronicled in the in the South Carolina debate. Link here. (http://www.usnews.com/blogs/capital-commerce/2008/2/5/mccain-on-the-bush-tax-cuts.html)

He then again attacked & voted against those very tax cuts again in 2003. Link to voting record here. (http://senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=108&session=1&vote=00179)

Here is McCain on Meet the Press in 2007 talking about his shift to Tim Russert.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/dYsKiA3Myyw&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/dYsKiA3Myyw&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

He claimed that tax cuts would hurt the lower income in the 2000 statement. He claimed it against in 2004. He changed his mind in 2007 as shown by this video.

He claimed that the Bush tax cuts had increased government intake as a means for that vote, but that is simply not the truth. Link here from factcheck.org.
(http://www.factcheck.org/taxes/supply-side_spin.html)
This is a flip.

[epo]

Abortion - He's always been pro-life. In 2000, he basically admitted he was on the fence about whether or not overturning Roe v Wade would be good or bad, but he's always been pro-life.


This is one that I'll give McCain. He has always had a very nuanced approach on abortion (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=18632802).

"I have stated time after time after time that Roe v Wade was a bad decision, that I support a woman — the rights of the unborn — that I have fought for human rights and human dignity throughout my entire political career," McCain said. "To me, it's an issue of human rights and human dignity."

That is a pretty tight statement rhetorically. He hates the decision, but abides by it. If given an opportunity, he would overturn it. All while not addressing the stance completely. Very nice work.

[epo]

Torture - He's always been against torture. Torture was always illegal, then a new bill was introduced that proclaimed to be anti-torture and snuck in amendments that would've forced the CIA to use Army tactics and McCain voted against it.


I agree that for years, McCain was at the forefront of the torture argument and many human rights advocates expressed their appreciation for that stance.

But yet, on February 13, 2008 McCain voted against a bill that:

would force the C.I.A. to abide by the rules set out in the Army Field Manual on Interrogation, which prohibits physical force and lists approved interrogation methods. (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/17/us/politics/17torture.html?ref=politics)

In that manual the following is the key: (http://www.army.mil/institution/armypublicaffairs/pdf/fm2-22-3.pdf)

SEC. 327. LIMITATION ON INTERROGATION TECHNIQUES.
(a) LIMITATION.—No individual in the custody or under the effective control of an element of the intelligence community or instrumentality thereof, regardless of nationality or physical location, shall be subject to any treatment or technique of interrogation not authorized by the United States Army Field Manual on Human Intelligence Collector Operations.
(b) INSTRUMENTALITY DEFINED.—In this section, the term ‘‘instrumentality’’, with respect to an element of the intelligence community, means a contractor or subcontractor at any tier of the element of the intelligence community.

If that isn't a flop, I've never seen one.

[NewYorkDragons80]

I agree that for years, McCain was at the forefront of the torture argument and many human rights advocates expressed their appreciation for that stance.

But yet, on February 13, 2008 McCain voted against a bill that:



In that manual the following is the key: (http://www.army.mil/institution/armypublicaffairs/pdf/fm2-22-3.pdf)



If that isn't a flop, I've never seen one.
But torture is already illegal, so the CIA must abide by that whether or not this bill was passed

[epo]

I've seen this ad from Planned Parenthood run in Wisconsin quite a bit already.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/eivTm-VmfXg&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/eivTm-VmfXg&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

This won't help McCain's attempts to appeal to women.

[scottinnj]

I've always hated that. Dick pills covered by Medicare and commercial insurance but birth control devices are not.

The women that have insurance coverage (like my wife and sister-in-law did) was usually for some weird plumbing issue that called for fewer and lighter periods. Once my wife and also her sis had a baby, the insurance coverage went away once it was safe to use the pill again.

The fact that my Medicare payment and my health insurance premiums help pay for old codgers to get it on at the retirement home is just creepy creepy creepy.

[Jujubees2]

I've always hated that. Dick pills covered by Medicare and commercial insurance but birth control devices are not.

The women that have insurance coverage (like my wife and sister-in-law did) was usually for some weird plumbing issue that called for fewer and lighter periods. Once my wife and also her sis had a baby, the insurance coverage went away once it was safe to use the pill again.

The fact that my Medicare payment and my health insurance premiums help pay for old codgers to get it on at the retirement home is just creepy creepy creepy.

And if men could have babies, there would be no talk about outlawing abortions.

Luckily, my health care coverage does include birth control for my wife (gee, I should check on the Viagra coverage).

[sailor]

mccain better for stock market. (http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSN2143994620080723)

[Zorro]

And if men could have babies, there would be no talk about outlawing abortions.

Luckily, my health care coverage does include birth control for my wife (gee, I should check on the Viagra coverage).

Birth control is covered as a matter of law in New York.

...and people on medicare are by definition OVER 65 so I doubt birth control is an issue.

[epo]

mccain better for stock market. (http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSN2143994620080723)

Those are the same people who thought that Bush Sr. was a better pick than Clinton. Honestly their assess is all about tax rates...and with the government this far in the red, not raising some taxes is going to continue to de-value the dollar. If we de-value any more, we are going to crush this economy of ours.

[sailor]

Those are the same people who thought that Bush Sr. was a better pick than Clinton. Honestly their assess is all about tax rates...and with the government this far in the red, not raising some taxes is going to continue to de-value the dollar. If we de-value any more, we are going to crush this economy of ours.

i doubt economists are as simplistic as you let on. it's not like they have pottery degrees.

[angrymissy]

I've seen this ad from Planned Parenthood run in Wisconsin quite a bit already.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/eivTm-VmfXg&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/eivTm-VmfXg&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

This won't help McCain's attempts to appeal to women.

holy crap. That's just uncomfortable. I heard the quote before but never saw the video. :surrender:

[Zorro]

holy crap. That's just uncomfortable. I heard the quote before but never saw the video. :surrender:

Watching McCain do just about anything is uncomfortable. I feel bad for him. He just doesn't seem up to it.

[epo]

From the Hotline: (http://hotlineblog.nationaljournal.com/archives/2008/07/a_premature_vic.html)

John McCain campaign spokesman Tucker Bounds issued the following statement on Barack Obama's speech in Germany today:

"While Barack Obama took a premature victory lap today in the heart of Berlin, proclaiming himself a 'citizen of the world,' John McCain continued to make his case to the American citizens who will decide this election. Barack Obama offered eloquent praise for this country, but the contrast is clear. John McCain has dedicated his life to serving, improving and protecting America. Barack Obama spent an afternoon talking about it."

This is a gigantic mistake on the part of the McCain campaign and I can't believe they are doing this. This is language that Kennedy, Reagan and Bush Sr. used. If they continue on this path it will slap them in the face.

[scottinnj]

From the Hotline: (http://hotlineblog.nationaljournal.com/archives/2008/07/a_premature_vic.html)

John McCain campaign spokesman Tucker Bounds issued the following statement on Barack Obama's speech in Germany today:


This is a gigantic mistake on the part of the McCain campaign and I can't believe they are doing this. This is language that Kennedy, Reagan and Bush Sr. used. If they continue on this path it will slap them in the face.

You are so right. Kennedy's words are mis-represented as "unpatriotic" but he was speaking as an American showing solidarity with repressed Germans and between the lines, telling the Soviets to shit in their hat.

Reagan actually used "citizen of the world" at a U.N. event he gave a speech at.

Obama showed once again, you can be a patriotic American and show love for the world.

Great speech.

[NewYorkDragons80]

You are so right. Kennedy's words are mis-represented as "unpatriotic" but he was speaking as an American showing solidarity with repressed Germans and between the lines, telling the Soviets to shit in their hat.
But Obama isn't Kennedy, not by a long shot. He isn't even president. Who was Obama showing solidarity with? Against whom?

[HBox]

But Obama isn't Kennedy, not by a long shot. He isn't even president. Who was Obama showing solidarity with? Against whom?

You can't be serious.

[Tenbatsuzen]

Back in 2000, I was really pro-McCain. I don't know what happened in those 8 years, but I'm as indecisive this year as I was in 2004 on who to vote for.

[SinA]

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/FPTfpCdZjBQ&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/FPTfpCdZjBQ&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[NewYorkDragons80]

You can't be serious.
What part do you disagree with?

[HBox]

What part do you disagree with?

Obama was showing solidarity with people of the world, and he didn't need to ally against anything to do it. We don't need to be allied against some other group to show solidarity with our fellow American citizens.

[keithy_19]

Obama was showing solidarity with people of the world, and he didn't need to ally against anything to do it. We don't need to be allied against some other group to show solidarity with our fellow American citizens.

Oh HBox, he was showing solidarity with the world because he is the anti-christ. You really need to stay on top of these important factors when you decide who you're voting for.

[HBox]

Oh HBox, he was showing solidarity with the world because he is the anti-christ. You really need to stay on top of these important factors when you decide who you're voting for.

I can't believe I missed that. Dammit.

[NewYorkDragons80]

Obama was showing solidarity with people of the world, and he didn't need to ally against anything to do it. We don't need to be allied against some other group to show solidarity with our fellow American citizens.
Well all the other Presidents who were mentioned as giving basically the same speech were rallying against communism. What was the common interest in Obama's speech?

[mendyweiss]

http://www.uksport.gov.uk/assets/Image/newsArchive/john_mcenroe_general_mainz.jpgWhat part do you disagree with?

[NewYorkDragons80]

You can't be serious.
http://www.uksport.gov.uk/assets/Image/newsArchive/john_mcenroe_general_mainz.jpg
Does any Obama supporter have anything remotely objective or factual to add?

[epo]

Well all the other Presidents who were mentioned as giving basically the same speech were rallying against communism. What was the common interest in Obama's speech?

The common interest was our shared history and values with Europe & our joint interest in not becoming isolationist while moving forward.

The theme of communism was replaced with tyranny of all varieties. From Afghanistan to Darfur.

Here is the text of the speech. (http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/07/full_text_of_obama.php)

[epo]

Does any Obama supporter have anything remotely objective or factual to add?

I do. Do you notice that this thread mirrors the major problem with the McCain campaign right now? The thread is becoming about Obama and not McCain.

The race has become that as well. The story isn't "McCain's policy" or "McCain's speech"...the story for Senator McCain has become his reaction or dismissal of or to a speech or policy directed by Senator Obama. The race is no longer about these two candidates...it's about one candidate and whether or not the public trusts him to do the job.

In fact the most recent poll from MSNBC/Wall Street Journal bears that out: (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25816799/)

Indeed, 51 percent of respondents say they are focusing more on what kind of president Obama would be, compared with just 27 percent who say they’re focusing more on McCain.

McCain needs to turn that number otherwise Obama will continue to drive the election coverage.

[NewYorkDragons80]

The race has become that as well. The story isn't "McCain's policy" or "McCain's speech"...the story for Senator McCain has become his reaction or dismissal of or to a speech or policy directed by Senator Obama. The race is no longer about these two candidates...it's about one candidate and whether or not the public trusts him to do the job.
That's only this week. You were the one who posted McCain's reaction to Obama's Berlin speech, a discussion ensued, and now you're using a topic you presented to prove a point you want to be true. Everyone knows this trip was going to heavily favor Obama while the media has failed to objectively present him at every possible turn. McCain simply accepted the reality that the trip was going to be the only story this week, and all they could do was respond to it. Stop treating it like something it isn't

[epo]

That's only this week. You were the one who posted McCain's reaction to Obama's Berlin speech, a discussion ensued, and now you're using a topic you presented to prove a point you want to be true. Everyone knows this trip was going to heavily favor Obama while the media has failed to objectively present him at every possible turn. McCain simply accepted the reality that the trip was going to be the only story this week, and all they could do was respond to it. Stop treating it like something it isn't

Yea...I'm making up the fact that McCain has completely taken a back seat. Once again, I'll use this thread as an example. There hasn't been a single post in this thread since July 8th about a McCain policy or story that wasn't reactionary or just us bickering. That post was about McCain's narrative of "Victory Savings" (http://www.ronfez.net/forums/showpost.php?p=1784967&postcount=379).

McCain took that backseat far before Obama went to Europe. He & his people need to find a way to drive the bus for awhile.

[sailor]

Yea...I'm making up the fact that McCain has completely taken a back seat. Once again, I'll use this thread as an example. There hasn't been a single post in this thread since July 8th about a McCain policy or story that wasn't reactionary or just us bickering. That post was about McCain's narrative of "Victory Savings" (http://www.ronfez.net/forums/showpost.php?p=1784967&postcount=379).

McCain took that backseat far before Obama went to Europe. He & his people need to find a way to drive the bus for awhile.

other than your 7/24 post in the obama thread there's nothing in there aboot his policies either. i think it's silly to look for that type of thing on this board.

[NewYorkDragons80]

other than your 7/24 post in the obama thread there's nothing in there aboot his policies either. i think it's silly to look for that type of thing on this board.
Sailor, you friggin canuck :lol:

Wait, this must mean sailor's winning the race because my post was directed at him

[HBox]

Does any Obama supporter have anything remotely objective or factual to add?

In the future I will strive to live up to objectively striving for the facts. I certainly won't do something as trivial as taking offense at four words in a speech simply meant to show solidarity with people in other countries because apparently only a threat as grave as communism justifies being friendly with Europe.

[HBox]

Here's something factual: Study says major network news more friendly to McCain than Obama. (http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-onthemedia27-2008jul27,0,6802141.story)

[Jujubees2]

Of course the McCain people don't want the media to focus on him because they may just find out about his lapses of sanity.

http://www.nydailynews.com/opinions/2008/07/26/2008-07-26_john_mccains_nuke_safety_whopper.html

[NewYorkDragons80]

McCain up by 4 among likely voters (http://blogs.usatoday.com/onpolitics/)

[epo]

Ok, I'll be the first to admit that I love political gaffs. Today, McCain said something that I'm sure he didn't realize the implications of...but is nonetheless fucking hilarious. (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/08/05/scenes-from-the-trail-mccain-makes-the-rounds-at-biker-rally/#more-11147)

Indeed, McCain felt so comfortable at the event that he even volunteered his wife for the rally’s traditional beauty pageant, an infamously debauched event that’s been known to feature topless women.

“I encouraged Cindy to compete,” McCain said to cheers. “I told her with a little luck she could be the only woman ever to serve as first lady and Miss Buffalo Chip.”

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So who wants to tell Senator McCain the implications of what he's just said?

[NewYorkDragons80]

Ok, I'll be the first to admit that I love political gaffs. Today, McCain said something that I'm sure he didn't realize the implications of...but is nonetheless fucking hilarious. (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/08/05/scenes-from-the-trail-mccain-makes-the-rounds-at-biker-rally/#more-11147)



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So who wants to tell Senator McCain the implications of what he's just said?
I don't know if it's a gaff when you appropriately address a crowd and then your detractors take it out of its proper context

[epo]

I don't know if it's a gaff when you appropriately address a crowd and then your detractors take it out of its proper context

Ok, I'll bite. How in the hell is "encouraging your wife to be Miss Buffalo Chip" at Sturgis being out of context? He said it, there are no other interpretations, there is no misreading.

That is nothing sort of "Hey dudes, look at this piece of tail that I'm banging! Her tits and ass are great, so she'd be great in your degrading competition. Seriously honey, I'm trying to win, whip out yer tits!"

[K.C.]

That is nothing sort of "Hey dudes, look at this piece of tail that I'm banging! Her tits and ass are great, so she'd be great in your degrading competition. Seriously honey, I'm trying to win, whip out yer tits!"

That actually would have made me take my vote back under advisement.

Although I have the suspicious feeling that when Cindy McCain unstraps that bra every night, those things sink down to her waste.

[NewYorkDragons80]

Ok, I'll bite. How in the hell is "encouraging your wife to be Miss Buffalo Chip" at Sturgis being out of context? He said it, there are no other interpretations, there is no misreading.
I thought you were emphasizing the buffalo chip part. So I thought you were coming from the angle of "He's calling his wife Miss Shit." His wife's a former beauty queen, and miss buffalo chip is a beauty contest. No one thinks he was asking his wife to go topless. He was relating to the crowd. Last time I checked, your guy's done it once or twice.

[epo]

I thought you were emphasizing the buffalo chip part. So I thought you were coming from the angle of "He's calling his wife Miss Shit." His wife's a former beauty queen, and miss buffalo chip is a beauty contest. No one thinks he was asking his wife to go topless. He was relating to the crowd. Last time I checked, your guy's done it once or twice.

The part I was making fun of is that "Miss Buffalo Chip" is essentially a skin-to-win "beauty contest" held at a biker rally. I'm not saying that he knew the context, but damn does it come off poorly.

[scottinnj]

"Hey dudes, look at this piece of tail that I'm banging! Her tits and ass are great, so she'd be great in your degrading competition. Seriously honey, I'm trying to win, whip out yer tits!"

I have the suspicious feeling that when Cindy McCain unstraps that bra every night, those things sink down to her waste.

Hey! I thought this was the Politics forum, not the Hot Chicks forum!

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s190/gabbybabble/2008-05/19/cindy-mccain-vogue.jpg

ROWR!!

[A.J.]

Although I have the suspicious feeling that when Cindy McCain unstraps that bra every night, those things sink down to her waste.

I hope she doesn't get shit-covered tits.

[scottinnj]

The part I was making fun of is that "Miss Buffalo Chip" is essentially a skin-to-win "beauty contest" held at a biker rally. I'm not saying that he knew the context, but damn does it come off poorly.

I don't know dude. Here's what she was competing against:

http://www.outerbanksfreepress.com/assets/mmmbcstage5t.jpg

I don't think they stand a chance against Cindy.

[angrymissy]

oh man

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/08/13/mccain-in-the-21st-centur_n_118759.html

Speaking to reporters about the situation in Georgia, Sen. John McCain denounced the aggressive posture of Russia by claiming that:"in the 21st century nations don't invade other nations."

[epo]

So apparently Jackson Browne is suing the McCain campaign for their use of the song "Runnin on Empty" in a political ad. (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/08/jackson-browne.html) The ad itself may or may not be silly, as I don't care enough about the details and/or Jackson Browne to read any further.

My only question is "Runnin on Empty"? Christ, the McCain campaign is lame.

[Zorro]

So apparently Jackson Browne is suing the McCain campaign for their use of the song "Runnin on Empty" in a political ad. (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/08/jackson-browne.html) The ad itself may or may not be silly, as I don't care enough about the details and/or Jackson Browne to read any further.

My only question is "Runnin on Empty"? Christ, the McCain campaign is lame.

I was alway under the impression that these guys can whine, but political use is Fair Use...am I wrong.

[A.J.]

So apparently Jackson Browne is suing the McCain campaign for their use of the song "Runnin on Empty" in a political ad. (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/08/jackson-browne.html) The ad itself may or may not be silly, as I don't care enough about the details and/or Jackson Browne to read any further.

My only question is "Runnin on Empty"? Christ, the McCain campaign is lame.

Agreed. They should have used Metallica's "Fuel".

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[epo]

In an interview yesterday with the Pueblo Chieftain newspaper, Senator McCain discussed re-opening the 1922 Colorado River Compact. (http://www.chieftain.com/articles/2008/08/15/news/local/doc48a548fed1e6f772542859.txt) This is the perfect example of the phrase "all politics are local" as the idea would be to re-direct greater amounts of water to Southern California & Arizona from upstream areas such as Colorado & Wyoming.

And if you've spent anytime in the West, the one thing you learn is "Don't fuck with their natural resources!"

This might be one of the bigger mis-steps McCain has made. I'll be interested in seeing how he tries to work his way out of it.

[KnoxHarrington]

I'm not quite sure what to make of this one: a charming little story McCain told last night about how seeing a cross drawn in the dirt gave him hope as a POW turns out to have a slight problem. It apparently didn't happen to him, it seems to be a story stolen from something that happened to Alexander Solzhenitsyn. Story here, along with the quote:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/8/17/122230/161/239/569299

OK, I guess there's the infinitesimally small chance that something exactly like that happened to both McCain and Solzhenitsyn, but I seriously doubt it. It strikes me as one of those utterly unnecessary lies. At least with Clinton's lie about dodging sniper fire in Bosnia, you could see some motivation -- it was to try to give some sort of "experience" she'd had in foreign affairs, and to tell people she wasn't just along for the ride. But this lie...I dunno. It really does sound like dementia, in a way, like he really thinks this happened to him.

The thought of this old fart being President scares me. I've been around quite a few people with dementia in my days. McCain reminds me of them in some ways.

[sailor]

I'm not quite sure what to make of this one: a charming little story McCain told last night about how seeing a cross drawn in the dirt gave him hope as a POW turns out to have a slight problem. It apparently didn't happen to him, it seems to be a story stolen from something that happened to Alexander Solzhenitsyn. Story here, along with the quote:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/8/17/122230/161/239/569299

OK, I guess there's the infinitesimally small chance that something exactly like that happened to both McCain and Solzhenitsyn, but I seriously doubt it. It strikes me as one of those utterly unnecessary lies. At least with Clinton's lie about dodging sniper fire in Bosnia, you could see some motivation -- it was to try to give some sort of "experience" she'd had in foreign affairs, and to tell people she wasn't just along for the ride. But this lie...I dunno. It really does sound like dementia, in a way, like he really thinks this happened to him.

The thought of this old fart being President scares me. I've been around quite a few people with dementia in my days. McCain reminds me of them in some ways.

i'm pretty sure that story is used in his book faith of our fathers, along with many other tales from his years in the prison camp. i don't understand why you wouldn't think something like that would happen fairly often. is it unthinkable that there are christian guards who have to keep their beliefs hidden, who have no way to express themselves to the prisoners they feel a bond with? would we be shocked to hear the same story from a nazi concentration camp?

[cougarjake13]

I'm not quite sure what to make of this one: a charming little story McCain told last night about how seeing a cross drawn in the dirt gave him hope as a POW turns out to have a slight problem. It apparently didn't happen to him, it seems to be a story stolen from something that happened to Alexander Solzhenitsyn. Story here, along with the quote:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/8/17/122230/161/239/569299

OK, I guess there's the infinitesimally small chance that something exactly like that happened to both McCain and Solzhenitsyn, but I seriously doubt it. It strikes me as one of those utterly unnecessary lies. At least with Clinton's lie about dodging sniper fire in Bosnia, you could see some motivation -- it was to try to give some sort of "experience" she'd had in foreign affairs, and to tell people she wasn't just along for the ride. But this lie...I dunno. It really does sound like dementia, in a way, like he really thinks this happened to him.

The thought of this old fart being President scares me. I've been around quite a few people with dementia in my days. McCain reminds me of them in some ways.


hed'll prob die in office and whoever the vp is will take over

[epo]

i'm pretty sure that story is used in his book faith of our fathers, along with many other tales from his years in the prison camp. i don't understand why you wouldn't think something like that would happen fairly often. is it unthinkable that there are christian guards who have to keep their beliefs hidden, who have no way to express themselves to the prisoners they feel a bond with? would we be shocked to hear the same story from a nazi concentration camp?

Sailor, it is from Faith of our Fathers. However the question now is whether the story was lifted from Alexander Solzhenitsyn.

I have no clue whether this story is his or not, but apparently McCain is a huge Solzhenitsyn fan and wrote an article about him two weeks ago. Link here (http://www.nysun.com/opinion/solzhenitsyn-at-work/83117/).

[sailor]

Sailor, it is from Faith of our Fathers. However the question now is whether the story was lifted from Alexander Solzhenitsyn.

I have no clue whether this story is his or not, but apparently McCain is a huge Solzhenitsyn fan and wrote an article about him two weeks ago. Link here (http://www.nysun.com/opinion/solzhenitsyn-at-work/83117/).

he has so many other (better) stories, i don't see the need to lift this one. my main point was he was being called senile (dementia even!), but it's a story he'd probably told since a young age.

[epo]

I find it interesting that Andrew Sullivan has picked up the Cross story (http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/08/mccains-cross-i.html).

[Zorro]

Sailor, it is from Faith of our Fathers. However the question now is whether the story was lifted from Alexander Solzhenitsyn.

I have no clue whether this story is his or not, but apparently McCain is a huge Solzhenitsyn fan and wrote an article about him two weeks ago. Link here (http://www.nysun.com/opinion/solzhenitsyn-at-work/83117/).

I want the video...

[epo]

So I have a question. As Andrew Sullivan has pointed out. (http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/08/was-mccain-tort.html)...under the Bush/Cheney rules of "torture" which John McCain now supports the rules have changed. The definition of torture has changed to the degree that John McCain was never officially "tortured" despite the physical evidence that the man was obviously brutalized.

So my question is this. Who is the bigger whore: Bush and Company for making the rule or McCain for agreeing to the new rules?

[epo]

By the way, the Christian Science Monitor (http://features.csmonitor.com/politics/2008/08/20/watchdogs-make-it-harder-for-politicians-to-stretch-the-truth/) reported today that one of the stories that John McCain told at the Presidential Forum, is a goddamned lie:

The McCain campaign had also put out the story that Mother Teresa “convinced” Cindy to bring home two orphans from Bangladesh in 1991.

Mrs. McCain, it turns out, never met Mother Teresa on that trip. (Once contacted by the Monitor, the campaign revised the story on its website.)

That's right, this man stood in front of the religious world and the nation at large and fucking lied to you. If this isn't a major story in tomorrow's news cycle, then our media is a damned joke.

[ChrisTheCop]

By the way, the Christian Science Monitor (http://features.csmonitor.com/politics/2008/08/20/watchdogs-make-it-harder-for-politicians-to-stretch-the-truth/) reported today that one of the stories that John McCain told at the Presidential Forum, is a goddamned lie:



That's right, this man stood in front of the religious world and the nation at large and fucking lied to you. If this isn't a major story in tomorrow's news cycle, then our media is a damned joke.

...a politician lied? go on.

[scottinnj]

My wife is a good judge of character-

Quote:

"I don't trust this guy"


'nuff said.

If you're gonna lie about orphans or getting shot at in Kosovo or if you never heard anti-american rhetoric from your pastor or not, then you're gonna lie about WMDs being stored in diamond mines on Mars and send in the troops.

[Knowledged_one]

this doesnt bode well on such a small thing, kinda comes across like grandpa simpson

http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20080821/pl_politico/12685

[Knowledged_one]

By the way, the Christian Science Monitor (http://features.csmonitor.com/politics/2008/08/20/watchdogs-make-it-harder-for-politicians-to-stretch-the-truth/) reported today that one of the stories that John McCain told at the Presidential Forum, is a goddamned lie:



That's right, this man stood in front of the religious world and the nation at large and fucking lied to you. If this isn't a major story in tomorrow's news cycle, then our media is a damned joke.

thats just like Obamas lie about his families history in reference to WWII

[epo]

this doesnt bode well on such a small thing, kinda comes across like grandpa simpson

http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20080821/pl_politico/12685

It's an awful gaffe....and not shockingly Obama is making some hay with it.

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[DarkHippie]

thats just like Obamas lie about his families history in reference to WWII

I haven't heard this. Do you have a link? And wasn't half his family in Kenya?

[Knowledged_one]

I haven't heard this. Do you have a link? And wasn't half his family in Kenya?

http://townhall.com/Columnists/AmandaCarpenter/2008/05/27/obamas_wwii_uncle_flap

In a speech in 2002 he said it was his grand-father who was part of it

[DarkHippie]

http://townhall.com/Columnists/AmandaCarpenter/2008/05/27/obamas_wwii_uncle_flap

In a speech in 2002 he said it was his grand-father who was part of it

hmm, I've refered to my great uncle as 'uncle' before. Its seems more of a gaff than an outright lie

[KnoxHarrington]

It's an awful gaffe....and not shockingly Obama is making some hay with it.



I think the "I forget how many houses I own" thing could end up being for the McCain campaign what staring in wide-eyed wonder at the grocery scanner was for the George H.W. Bush re-election campaign: the big gaffe that spoils the chance they had to make themselves look like the candidate for "Regular Joe."

This is why I think Obama will win, more than anything: McCain's going to blow it. If I'm working for his campaign I am not looking forward to the debates.

[NewYorkDragons80]

The Cindy McCain/Mother Theresa thing isn't that big of a deal. Bridget was adopted from a Bangladeshi orphanage run by Mother Theresa. Does anybody really care if Mother Theresa was personally involved?

The house thing is more devastating than the Mother Theresa claim. John McCain wasn't in Bangladesh, so the campaign can pass it off as misinterpretation... or anything. If the media ran with these, they'd really be grasping at straws.

[NewYorkDragons80]

If I'm working for his campaign I am not looking forward to the debates.
No matter what you think of Obama, the guy is dogshit off the cuff. That's why he dodged the Town Hall meetings.

[KnoxHarrington]

This is frankly hilarious: the money line in a new McCain attack ad is "Celebrities don't have to worry about family budgets. But we sure do." It's an extension of his attack line calling Obama an out-of-touch, elitist "celebrity".

But let's look at the McCain family budget, shall we?

The McCains increased their budget for household employees from $184,000 in 2006 to $273,000 in 2007, according to John McCain’s tax returns.

That's right. The McCains pay $270,000 per year for butlers and maids--that's $50,000 more than the median value of an American home.


I know I'm sure as hell having to cut things out of my budget to keep paying my butler. What about you?

This, with the "I don't know how many houses I own" line, is really going to destroy McCain's ability to paint himself as the candidate of the "Regular Joe".

Or maybe voters are even more stupid than I think they are. I dunno.

Quote from this article: http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/8/22/111814/070/950/572640

[epo]

The Cindy McCain/Mother Theresa thing isn't that big of a deal. Bridget was adopted from a Bangladeshi orphanage run by Mother Theresa. Does anybody really care if Mother Theresa was personally involved?

The house thing is more devastating than the Mother Theresa claim. John McCain wasn't in Bangladesh, so the campaign can pass it off as misinterpretation... or anything. If the media ran with these, they'd really be grasping at straws.

Not to me. The Mother Teresa thing to me speaks to the heart of who John McCain is.

First of all, John and Cindy McCain did a wonderful thing by adopting that little girl. It's a touching story and one that should inspire more families of means to do things like it. But I would like to point out that this is the same little girl who was the subject of the infamous 2000 South Carolina push polls by the Bush campaign. McCain was outraged and most of decent America was there with him.

So why would McCain need to "gin up" this story to include Mother Teresa? The only answer is for political gain. The only answer that I can think of is that John McCain wants to be the President of the United States so badly, that he is willing to tell a well-thought out lie about his own daughter.

This wasn't a gaffe, this is should make each "family values" voter question John McCain's character.

[BinaryBimbo]

This is frankly hilarious: the money line in a new McCain attack ad is "Celebrities don't have to worry about family budgets. But we sure do." It's an extension of his attack line calling Obama an out-of-touch, elitist "celebrity".

But let's look at the McCain family budget, shall we?



I know I'm sure as hell having to cut things out of my budget to keep paying my butler. What about you?

This, with the "I don't know how many houses I own" line, is really going to destroy McCain's ability to paint himself as the candidate of the "Regular Joe".

Or maybe voters are even more stupid than I think they are. I dunno.

Quote from this article: http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/8/22/111814/070/950/572640

I hate to break this to you; but John Kerry is married to a very rich woman, and Al Gore is a very rich man. And let's not forget that Billry made 10 extra extra large last year as well.

My point is that the vast majority of those interested in the politics at this juncture already know these things, and they don't mean squat unless they can parlay this into talk mid-October.

I seriously doubt that JFK could have accurately answered that same question off the cuff. Ditto Kerry. Gore is such an anal fuck he probably always knows down to the penny what he has in his pocket; but he most likely couldn't tell you what real estate he owns without having an aide figure it out for him. In fact I cannot remember a President who wasn't a millionaire coming into it either by himself, or with his family fortune. Some like the Clintons made most of their coin afterwards; but there is little doubt they were already millionaires when he first took office.

Obama needs to drop this shit now; both sides do, imho. They both will come off as whinng rich kids trying to deny to who they are. Obama made the gaffe today of saying he made his last 4 million over 2 years instead of one; as if that makes a fucking difference. Then he tried to qualify his richness by saying McCain has lived like a King for 25 years while he, (Obama), has only done it for two! OH! Well in that case...nevermind:wacko:

I might add that The Daily Kos is the last thing any self respecting Independent or Republican will be reading anytime soon; so you are really taking talking points from the choir and relaying them to the choir. Nothing will come of this bs except a bitterness from older non-text friendly Dems who will feel played by this cell phone number grab campaign that ignores them - the real money.

[KnoxHarrington]

I hate to break this to you; but John Kerry is married to a very rich woman, and Al Gore is a very rich man. And let's not forget that Billry made 10 extra extra large last year as well.

My point is that the vast majority of those interested in the politics at this juncture already know these things, and they don't mean squat unless they can parlay this into talk mid-October.

I seriously doubt that JFK could have accurately answered that same question off the cuff. Ditto Kerry. Gore is such an anal fuck he probably always knows down to the penny what he has in his pocket; but he most likely couldn't tell you what real estate he owns without having an aide figure it out for him. In fact I cannot remember a President who wasn't a millionaire coming into it either by himself, or with his family fortune. Some like the Clintons made most of their coin afterwards; but there is little doubt they were already millionaires when he first took office.

Obama needs to drop this shit now; both sides do, imho. They both will come off as whinng rich kids trying to deny to who they are. Obama made the gaffe today of saying he made his last 4 million over 2 years instead of one; as if that makes a fucking difference. Then he tried to qualify his richness by saying McCain has lived like a King for 25 years while he, (Obama), has only done it for two! OH! Well in that case...nevermind:wacko:

I might add that The Daily Kos is the last thing any self respecting Independent or Republican will be reading anytime soon; so you are really taking talking points from the choir and relaying them to the choir. Nothing will come of this bs except a bitterness from older non-text friendly Dems who will feel played by this cell phone number grab campaign that ignores them - the real money.

Of course. But where's Obama's ad talking about how he struggles to make the family budget?

[epo]

This "outrage" by the right over the fact that the Obama campaign is making some hay out of this housing gaffe is downright hilarious.

There is always a cycle in these national elections and it seems to go something like this:

Candidates promise to play fair
General election begins
Republican immediately goes dirty
Democrat finally responds
Republicans are "outraged" over Democratic tone


If Obama wants to crush this thing, he should stand up and continue to kick McCain right in the nuts.

[BinaryBimbo]

Of course. But where's Obama's ad talking about how he struggles to make the family budget?

I just don't see these things as a tit for tat type of event. At some point the public decides it has gone too far, and by the time everyone realizes it the damage is generally already done.


Kerry had Teresa Hines last cycle, and try as they might the Republicans never were able to get much traction out of the 'rich and out of touch' bit - the flip flopping and very unconvincing responses to the VietNam medals stuff, was what did him in imho. We all had a good time laughing at Teresa, and hoping she would be a resident White House pill popper ala Betty Ford; but in the end she had nothing to do with the outcome.

There were crazy details there too. Kerry's Dad also married a rich woman who supported him; so the oppurtunity to make him look like a carpetbagger was great. The public didn't give a crap though because we expect our politicians to be both liars, and wealthy, these days.

As far as I recall - every single candidate for President this election cycle for the two Parties is a millionaire. It's a non issue once fleshed out a little.

[BinaryBimbo]

This "outrage" by the right over the fact that the Obama campaign is making some hay out of this housing gaffe is downright hilarious.

There is always a cycle in these national elections and it seems to go something like this:

Candidates promise to play fair
General election begins
Republican immediately goes dirty
Democrat finally responds
Republicans are "outraged" over Democratic tone


If Obama wants to crush this thing, he should stand up and continue to kick McCain right in the nuts.

While I agree Obama should not stop attacking for one minute; I think he needs to pick his attack positions better, and this one is neither relavent nor likely to pay off while it has the potential to backfire on him. Why take a chance when there is nothing to be gained beyond the initial news cycle? Republicans will always 'act' outraged at a Democratic attack; but we know different. In the last two days Obamas people have made two rapid fire response ads to the McCain responses in which they gave no time to policy that a President Obama would enact to help 'poor' people.

And yet he plays this silly kids game on the text messages for his VP pick. Looks a lot like unfocused bs to me. Meanwhile Sean Hannity offered $1000.00 to Obamas Brother discovered living in Africa on $1.00 a week that Obama has never done a damn thing for. Do you see how this can backfire yet?Obama is getting ripped apart on Fox over his live abortion stance in Illinois Senate, and his biggest eneny. (Hannity), is making him look like an elitist pig who talks a good game and ignores his own family living in the deepest sort of poverty imaginable to any American.

[K.C.]

Here's McCain's dilemma.

Obama is going to come hard at him on economics, and Biden is going to come hard on Iraq.

McCain can probably deflect a decent amount of the punches from Biden, but Obama is just going to wear him down on the economy.

So McCain needs to decide whether he picks a defensive VP, or a guy that he can attack Obama from another angle with.


Mitt Romney is horrible choice to me, for so many reason. First, I think he's just a horrific campaigner, especially since he betrayed what got him elected in Mass.

Second, Romney won't solve McCain's problem on economics. He might help stop the bleeding a little bit, but the tone of this electorate is very much in favor of Obama on economic policy.

Nevermind the fact, that the party insiders still hate McCain, and still are whispering about Romney as the 2012 front runner if McCain loses. That'd make me a little nervous if I was him.


Huckabee would be a great choice. There's still a lot of social conservatives and Huckabee is a rock star for that crowd. He's a a very charismatic campaigner, who could do a lot of good for McCain in areas like Ohio where the people my tilt toward Obama economically, but may vote McCain/Huckabee on values.

The Republican insiders would hate this ticket, but they're not NOT going to vote. There's more growth potential with Huckabee.


I think McCain should give some weight to picking a geographic VP from either Florida or Ohio, but there's enough states that Obama has the potential to pick off in the southwest, that he can actually win this election without Ohio or Florida.

McCain doesn't want to put all his eggs in Florida with someone like Crist, only to get beat down in Nevada, Colorado, and New Mexico.


I think it all comes down to whether McCain takes ownership of his campaign, and picks a guy that will help him best, or whether he caves to the pressure of the party, who desperately want someone like Romney.

[NewYorkDragons80]

Here's McCain's dilemma.

Obama is going to come hard at him on economics, and Biden is going to come hard on Iraq.

McCain can probably deflect a decent amount of the punches from Biden, but Obama is just going to wear him down on the economy.

So McCain needs to decide whether he picks a defensive VP, or a guy that he can attack Obama from another angle with.


Mitt Romney is horrible choice to me, for so many reason. First, I think he's just a horrific campaigner, especially since he betrayed what got him elected in Mass.

Second, Romney won't solve McCain's problem on economics. He might help stop the bleeding a little bit, but the tone of this electorate is very much in favor of Obama on economic policy.

Nevermind the fact, that the party insiders still hate McCain, and still are whispering about Romney as the 2012 front runner if McCain loses. That'd make me a little nervous if I was him.


Huckabee would be a great choice. There's still a lot of social conservatives and Huckabee is a rock star for that crowd. He's a a very charismatic campaigner, who could do a lot of good for McCain in areas like Ohio where the people my tilt toward Obama economically, but may vote McCain/Huckabee on values.

The Republican insiders would hate this ticket, but they're not NOT going to vote. There's more growth potential with Huckabee.


I think McCain should give some weight to picking a geographic VP from either Florida or Ohio, but there's enough states that Obama has the potential to pick off in the southwest, that he can actually win this election without Ohio or Florida.

McCain doesn't want to put all his eggs in Florida with someone like Crist, only to get beat down in Nevada, Colorado, and New Mexico.


I think it all comes down to whether McCain takes ownership of his campaign, and picks a guy that will help him best, or whether he caves to the pressure of the party, who desperately want someone like Romney.
It's no secret that I'm a big supporter of Sarah Palin for VP. I don't really believe in regionalism in winning a state, so Pawlenty, Crist, and Romney don't really do it for me. Palin brings economic and energy credentials and a charisma that matches Obama's. She's a traditional conservative, but has also granted same-sex benefits to state employees and thrown out the good ole boys in Alaskan politics. She's also a self-made woman, which counts for more int he eyes of most Americans than riding your husband's coattails. Palin is a candidate who can satisfy the conservative and moderate wings at the same time.

[Ritalin]

Here is comes! This is going to be fun:

Biden: "Your kitchen table is like mine, you sit there at night after you put the kids to bed and you talk about what you need. That's not a worry John McCain has to worry about. He'll have to figure out which of the seven kitchen tables to sit at."

[NewYorkDragons80]

Here is comes! This is going to be fun:

Biden: "Your kitchen table is like mine, you sit there at night after you put the kids to bed and you talk about what you need. That's not a worry John McCain has to worry about. He'll have to figure out which of the seven kitchen tables to sit at."
http://z.about.com/d/tvcomedies/1/7/U/-/-/-/tobias_funke.jpg
Oh Tobias, you blowhard!

[epo]

Here is comes! This is going to be fun:

Biden: "Your kitchen table is like mine, you sit there at night after you put the kids to bed and you talk about what you need. That's not a worry John McCain has to worry about. He'll have to figure out which of the seven kitchen tables to sit at."

In an interview with CBS today (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0808/12754.html), McCain answered the housing question with this:

"I am grateful for the fact that I have a wonderful life,” McCain said. “I spent some years without a kitchen table, without a chair, and I know what it's like to be blessed by the opportunities of this great nation."

Ok, this needs to be said...not everything is about your time in Vietnam. Stop using it as an excuse please.

[epo]

It's no secret that I'm a big supporter of Sarah Palin for VP. I don't really believe in regionalism in winning a state, so Pawlenty, Crist, and Romney don't really do it for me. Palin brings economic and energy credentials and a charisma that matches Obama's. She's a traditional conservative, but has also granted same-sex benefits to state employees and thrown out the good ole boys in Alaskan politics. She's also a self-made woman, which counts for more int he eyes of most Americans than riding your husband's coattails. Palin is a candidate who can satisfy the conservative and moderate wings at the same time.

She would definitely be an interesting pick. Doesn't she have a newborn child though?

[A.J.]

In an interview with CBS today (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0808/12754.html), McCain answered the housing question with this:

"I am grateful for the fact that I have a wonderful life,” McCain said. “I spent some years without a kitchen table, without a chair, and I know what it's like to be blessed by the opportunities of this great nation."

Ok, this needs to be said...not everything is about your time in Vietnam. Stop using it as an excuse please.

True, but it's better than saying "I have these things because I married a young, hot heiress."

[epo]

McCain's new ad:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/3NrQ36Djf2E&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/3NrQ36Djf2E&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Seriously? That passed through your communications team? How is this even relevant?

[NewYorkDragons80]

She would definitely be an interesting pick. Doesn't she have a newborn child though?
She does, and I've heard pundits raise that issue, but would people ask that question if she was a male?

And McCain has a tough time with the housing issue, but those aren't his houses, really. I'll admit he's overstepping the POW thing, but it's not feasible for him to say "I'm rich beotch!!!" What's McCain supposed to do, sell his wife's houses whenever the economy goes bad?

[BinaryBimbo]

McCain's new ad:

...

Seriously? That passed through your communications team? How is this even relevant?

That is lame as can be.

[scottinnj]

McCain's new ad:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/3NrQ36Djf2E&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/3NrQ36Djf2E&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Seriously? That passed through your communications team? How is this even relevant?

"I'm John McCain and I approved this message"

Really John?

"I'm scottinnj and I thought this message sucked dogshit through a straw"

[sailor]

why is trying to appeal to hillary backers not seen as a good thing?

[NewYorkDragons80]

By the way, I think the Biden pick underscores how good a pick Palin would be. Aside from the reasons I already stated, seeing Biden use his attack dog style on a woman would really backfire on him

[scottinnj]

IMO the hardcore Hillary supporters who are still mad at the Obama camp are going to sit it out instead of voting for McCain.

They are the mirror image of Romney supporters who are mad at the Republican Party and McCain. There's no way you'll see any of them voting for Obama-it's a sin in their churches.

No way will a Hillary Democrat vote for McCain either-how do you explain that at the next "It's takes a village" chapter reading?

[scottinnj]

By the way, I think the Biden pick underscores how good a pick Palin would be. Aside from the reasons I already stated, seeing Biden use his attack dog style on a woman would really backfire on him

Although I'm with you with the Palin pick for VP, I don't think Biden is going to say one word if she was the VP candidate. I'm pretty sure Obama basted a picture of McCain in steaksauce, put it in front of Joe's face, let him sniff it and said "Go get 'em!"

Biden was tapped to give advice to Obama on foreign policy when elected and to be a headhunter during the election.

[KnoxHarrington]

McCain's campaign seems so tone-deaf about what voters believe. The McCain ad seems to be aimed at the "PUMA" crowd, but that crowd has dwindled to nothing, and would be gone entirely if the "pro-Obama MSM" would stop paying attention to them. So very few people actually believe what the ad alleges.

[NewYorkDragons80]

Although I'm with you with the Palin pick for VP, I don't think Biden is going to say one word if she was the VP candidate. I'm pretty sure Obama basted a picture of McCain in steaksauce, put it in front of Joe's face, let him sniff it and said "Go get 'em!"
OK, but what's he going to do in the VP debates? His debate style is abrasive (which I actually like), but that's not going to fly if he's debating a skirt.

[scottinnj]

OK, but what's he going to do in the VP debates? His debate style is abrasive (which I actually like), but that's not going to fly if he's debating a skirt.

Unless he goes all out and acts like a neanderthal loon, nobody's going to care. Besides, she's got what it take to go toe-to-toe with Biden. It will be probably more interesting then the Obama/McCain "Let's keep it civil" debates.

[Ritalin]

McCain's new ad:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/3NrQ36Djf2E&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/3NrQ36Djf2E&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Seriously? That passed through your communications team? How is this even relevant?

Yeah, it doesn't even make much sense. Well, it does if he's trying to pick off some disaffected Clintonistas - who are going to try to make a big mess at the convention. I don't think it's going to work though. If anything this is going to make Hillary hold her nose and do the right thing at the convention. Support the ticket and move on.

What am I saying? That's crazy talk. She's not going to do that.

[Ritalin]

By the way, I think the Biden pick underscores how good a pick Palin would be. Aside from the reasons I already stated, seeing Biden use his attack dog style on a woman would really backfire on him

So you have to send a woman out to do your fighting for you?

[KnoxHarrington]

Yeah, it doesn't even make much sense. Well, it does if he's trying to pick off some disaffected Clintonistas - who are going to try to make a big mess at the convention. I don't think it's going to work though. If anything this is going to make Hillary hold her nose and do the right thing at the convention. Support the ticket and move on.

What am I saying? That's crazy talk. She's not going to do that.

The Clinton campaign has said they will release her delegates to Obama on Wednesday.

Sorry, MSM, you're not getting the Clinton bitch-fit you've been hoping for.

[epo]

McCain answers the "house" question:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/-vqnkatmS9g&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/-vqnkatmS9g&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Thoughts?

[NewYorkDragons80]

Unless he goes all out and acts like a neanderthal loon, nobody's going to care. Besides, she's got what it take to go toe-to-toe with Biden. It will be probably more interesting then the Obama/McCain "Let's keep it civil" debates.
I'm not for one moment saying that Biden would be sexist or intentionally aggressive towards Palin. What I am saying is that it would be difficult, given his style, to debate a woman with a very amiable personality like Sarah Palin and not give the impression that he is being nasty.
So you have to send a woman out to do your fighting for you?
No, I'm talking about Biden attacking Palin, you silly little goose.
McCain answers the "house" question:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/-vqnkatmS9g&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/-vqnkatmS9g&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Thoughts?
Not bad. There's no easy way to say 1) you're rich 2) it's really your chick's money.

[A.J.]

Not bad. There's no easy way to say 1) you're rich 2) it's really your chick's money.

"Tell me about it."

http://ap.grolier.com/images/cache/125/news0391.jpg

[Ritalin]

McCain answers the "house" question:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/-vqnkatmS9g&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/-vqnkatmS9g&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Thoughts?

Hold on.

McCain was a POW? Why haven't I heard that yet?

[BinaryBimbo]

McCain answers the "house" question:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/-vqnkatmS9g&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/-vqnkatmS9g&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Thoughts?

I thought he answered it relatively well; but I take exception to the POW reference in this case - it just seems like a symphathy grab in this case.

I also think that his people dropped the ball because lost in the coinversation is that McCain basically did answer the question the first time. He said, 'and there's the condos, I'll have to have an aide get back to you on that'. IMHO it appeared as though he wasn't unsure of the amount of personal housing, and just wanted to kick that Q to the aides to insure a correct answer. It's almost as if his mind reconized at that moment that not having a tally of investment propeties was not good.

At any rate - the second poorest Senator lives in a family compound in Delaware, and he was just tapped for Veep for the Dems. I think this has given all it can, and to beat it further risks allienating the very people you hope to sway with the argument.

Let your surrorgates hammer McCain on issues while Obama appears to take a higher road over the personal stuff. The housing thing is a character issue, and it simply opens up the past few months of Wright/Ayers/Rezko, etc. in response. They need to move away from that sort of stuff, and convince people they have a solid plan to lead.

[NewYorkDragons80]

I thought he answered it relatively well; but I take exception to the POW reference in this case - it just seems like a symphathy grab in this case.
It does, however, show that McCain wasn't born into real privilege or wealth. He was a career military guy making an officer's salary. He made ends meet, but he was never wealthy until he married Cindy.

[A.J.]

It does, however, show that McCain wasn't born into real privilege or wealth. He was a career military guy making an officer's salary. He made ends meet, but he was never wealthy until he married Cindy.

Not to be Neddy Nitpicker, but McCain was born into privilege in the sense that he was the son of two noted Admirals who are the namesakes of DDG-51: USS McCain (http://www.mccain.navy.mil/Site%20Pages/namesake.aspx).

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1c/USS_John_S._McCain_DDG-56.jpg/800px-USS_John_S._McCain_DDG-56.jpg

[J.Clints]

I should have the Sign in my yard today. McCain all the way. Whh hooo

[angrymissy]

http://punditkitchen.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/political-pictures-john-mccain-mitt-romney-grin-creepy.jpg

[Recyclerz]

This may have been said by somebody else already in thread (if so, I apolgize for missing the post(s)) but the thing that has most surprised and disappointed me is how fundamentally unprepared John McCain has been to run for President. Now I disagree with McCain on most policy issues, but I see him not only as a heroic figure for his surviving the POW time, but as a fundamentally decent person who wants to do the right thing for the country. In fact, a couple of years ago, I thought he might have both the smarts and sense of duty to come in and be the clean-up guy behind the fucktards we've had for the last eight years - i.e. to make some unpopular decisions (raising taxes, trimming Social Security and Medicare benefits in the future, cutting other spending (including military) to sustainable levels, etc. If you were planning to be a one-term President anyway and had enough self-confidence that you could stand to be reviled in the short-run with the chance to be lionized by history by taking the unpopular but necessary decisions to partially undo the mess that has been left to you by your predecessors,that is to act like an adult, then this election is a perfect opportunity.

But what has he come to the table with? Doubling down on the tax cuts that further enable the very rich in this country to stuff their Gucci luggage with cash before the shit really hits the fan, a plan to fuck over the people who currently have health insurance subsidized by their employers without any real benefits to those who don't have coverage, and based on his statements following Russia's shenanigans in Georgia, a foreign policy that would have worked fine 25 years ago when there still was a Soviet Union but seems dangerously out-of-date as we need to find a way to lead in a multi-polar world. Top that off with a ridiculously derivative Rovian attack ad campaign and you have a figure that is metaphorically melting before our eyes. I hope he can find his innate sense of decency and bring it to this campaign so that we can have an election we as a country don't have to be ashamed of again.

[epo]

why is trying to appeal to hillary backers not seen as a good thing?

When its pandering at the lowest level:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/WLQGWpRVA7o&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/WLQGWpRVA7o&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[scottinnj]

This may have been said by somebody else already in thread (if so, I apolgize for missing the post(s)) but the thing that has most surprised and disappointed me is how fundamentally unprepared John McCain has been to run for President. Now I disagree with McCain on most policy issues, but I see him not only as a heroic figure for his surviving the POW time, but as a fundamentally decent person who wants to do the right thing for the country. In fact, a couple of years ago, I thought he might have both the smarts and sense of duty to come in and be the clean-up guy behind the fucktards we've had for the last eight years - i.e. to make some unpopular decisions (raising taxes, trimming Social Security and Medicare benefits in the future, cutting other spending (including military) to sustainable levels, etc. If you were planning to be a one-term President anyway and had enough self-confidence that you could stand to be reviled in the short-run with the chance to be lionized by history by taking the unpopular but necessary decisions to partially undo the mess that has been left to you by your predecessors,that is to act like an adult, then this election is a perfect opportunity.

But what has he come to the table with? Doubling down on the tax cuts that further enable the very rich in this country to stuff their Gucci luggage with cash before the shit really hits the fan, a plan to fuck over the people who currently have health insurance subsidized by their employers without any real benefits to those who don't have coverage, and based on his statements following Russia's shenanigans in Georgia, a foreign policy that would have worked fine 25 years ago when there still was a Soviet Union but seems dangerously out-of-date as we need to find a way to lead in a multi-polar world. Top that off with a ridiculously derivative Rovian attack ad campaign and you have a figure that is metaphorically melting before our eyes. I hope he can find his innate sense of decency and bring it to this campaign so that we can have an election we as a country don't have to be ashamed of again.



As an ex-Republican, that pretty much sums it up for me.

[NewYorkDragons80]

Not to be Neddy Nitpicker, but McCain was born into privilege in the sense that he was the son of two noted Admirals who are the namesakes of DDG-51: USS McCain (http://www.mccain.navy.mil/Site%20Pages/namesake.aspx).

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1c/USS_John_S._McCain_DDG-56.jpg/800px-USS_John_S._McCain_DDG-56.jpg
I know what you're saying, but that brings neither wealth nor privilege. He didn't get special treatment at Annapolis (nobody does) and the cushy assignments he got after coming back from Vietnam probably had more to do with being a POW than being an admiral's son. Don't believe me? Look up what an O-9 makes.

[NewYorkDragons80]

So you have to send a woman out to do your fighting for you?
http://punditkitchen.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/political-pictures-john-mccain-mitt-romney-grin-creepy.jpg
Can the hit and runs please stop? I welcome all of you to have a real conversation like the majority here are.