All things McCain

[NewYorkDragons80]

Subservient... I don't know if that's what I'm going for - incubators, breeders, yes. IMO - it's putting a potential life over a living woman's life.
If the woman's life is at stake, I believe she should be permitted to get an abortion because that's one life against another. But again, science cannot agree when life begins, so until it does (and I don't mean that facetiously, I'll seriously side with science on this), life should get the benefit of the doubt. IMO, that's the #1 function of government.

Missy, you're not a breeder or an incubator, but if there's another human being inside of you or any other woman (and now men! J/K) the government should protect it just the same as it protects any other person.

[NewYorkDragons80]

that picture was a "Goodfellas" reference
:smile: you know what I meant, fella

[GreatAmericanZero]

science can never "define life"..its an abstract term. There are sperms and eggs, there are fetuses, there are babies, there are children and so forth and so forth...the word "life" really means nothing

[Jujubees2]

science can never "define life"..its an abstract term. There are sperms and eggs, there are fetuses, there are babies, there are children and so forth and so forth...the word "life" really means nothing

Bull. Life means something. It means a breakfast cereal that Mikey likes!

http://www.imommies.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/life-cereal.bmp

[NewYorkDragons80]

One thing about a debate - it's not a speech. It's about thinking on your feet. Biden is well versed. He's been a senator for god knows how long. Her experience is being a mom, a mayor, part of the PTA, and governor for a year and a half.

He will DESTROY her.
You seem really bitter because this pick was one of the better coups in modern politics and you know it. I've been pulling for this chick (more ways than one, huddela huddelah) for months now, and I know her history, you don't. She wiped the floor with Frank Murkowski, who was a 4 term Senator and a governor. She's not an empty suit, she's established and tough in her own right. Stop assuming she's weak because she's a woman.

[TheMojoPin]

If the woman's life is at stake, I believe she should be permitted to get an abortion because that's one life against another. But again, science cannot agree when life begins, so until it does (and I don't mean that facetiously, I'll seriously side with science on this), life should get the benefit of the doubt. IMO, that's the #1 function of government.

Missy, you're not a breeder or an incubator, but if there's another human being inside of you or any other woman (and now men! J/K) the government should protect it just the same as it protects any other person.

So it's OK for the government to protect the welfare of the glob of goo that will be baby at the expense of the mother (and often ultimately other people around her), but not to ultimately protect the welfare of the mother at the expense of a glob of goo that will be a baby?

It's very easy to look at this as deciding that a potential person is more important than a person that already exists.

[TheMojoPin]

Bull. Life means something. It means a breakfast cereal that Mikey likes!

http://www.imommies.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/life-cereal.bmp

You can be a winner at the game of:

http://www.underconsideration.com/speakup/archives/38_games_life.jpg

[JerseySean]

To change gears, Sarah Palin is a true maverick. She will end up proving the end of the Obama campaign. Biden will not be able to beat her in a debate. He cant beat anybody. He is boring and long winded. He cannot play attack dog against her.

[mikeyboy]

Bull. Life means something. It means a breakfast cereal that Mikey likes!

http://www.imommies.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/life-cereal.bmp

Yay Life!

[IMSlacker]

To change gears, Sarah Palin is a true maverick. She will end up proving the end of the Obama campaign. Biden will not be able to beat her in a debate. He cant beat anybody. He is boring and long winded. He cannot play attack dog against her.

Ok, well I guess that settles it then.

[mikeyboy]

Okay, aging Presidential candidate makes somewhat inexperienced woman his VP to pick up key demos, then he dies in office, and his V.P. takes over the country. Does this sound to anyone like it could be an 80s Touchstone comedy starring Goldie Hawn?

[GreatAmericanZero]

You can be a winner at the game of:

http://www.underconsideration.com/speakup/archives/38_games_life.jpg

see this is the version of Life that was cool, cuz you had boring shitty jobs that you had bust your hump at. It was true to Life. Now, they redid the game where all the jobs are "cool", like you can be "Rock star" or "Tv host" or "professional baseball player". Absolute bullshit

Okay, aging Presidential candidate makes somewhat inexperienced woman his VP to pick up key demos, then he dies in office, and his V.P. takes over the country. Does this sound to anyone like it could be an 80s Touchstone comedy starring Goldie Hawn?

Mikeyboy is funny. No wonder hes so beloved

[epo]

To change gears, Sarah Palin is a true maverick. She will end up proving the end of the Obama campaign. Biden will not be able to beat her in a debate. He cant beat anybody. He is boring and long winded. He cannot play attack dog against her.

Wow. What an argument.

[Dingbat_Charlie]

Okay, aging Presidential candidate makes somewhat inexperienced woman his VP to pick up key demos, then he dies in office, and his V.P. takes over the country. Does this sound to anyone like it could be an 80s Touchstone comedy starring Goldie Hawn?

:laugh:


and wallace shawn as her wacky secretary of state.

[GreatAmericanZero]

although today i think it would be Anna Faris more than Goldie Hawn. Or maybe Molly Shannon if her new sitcom takes off this fall

[sailor]

This could have a negative effect on the PUMA crowd and the Clinton hardcores due to the impression of pandering. You take a disaffected crowd and you motivate them to not only vote for Obama, but work hard for him as well.

why isn't obama coming out to country music pandering? (yee-haw, he's just like us!) i believe you called that brilliant or something.

[GreatAmericanZero]

why isn't obama coming out to country music pandering? (yee-haw, he's just like us!) i believe you called that brilliant or something.

yeah, Obama coming out to that awful country shit was pandering...absolutely. But the effect of a song played after a speech to the VP candidate pick is quite different

[sailor]

yeah, Obama coming out to that awful country shit was pandering...absolutely. But the effect of a song played after a speech to the VP candidate pick is quite different

don't you feel it's sexist for all you folk to say she was only picked because she's a woman? and she does have executive office experience (i don't believe any of the other 3 do, but i could easily be wrong).

[epo]

why isn't obama coming out to country music pandering? (yee-haw, he's just like us!) i believe you called that brilliant or something.

Totally pandering. But he was also doing it with a song not a pick. Also he obviously picked it in part because Bush used it during one of his runs...furthering a theme that he is shitting all over the Bush legacy.

He didn't do it to contradict a core message such as ...... "experience matters".

yeah, Obama coming out to that awful country shit was pandering...absolutely. But the effect of a song played after a speech to the VP candidate pick is quite different

Exactly.

[GreatAmericanZero]

don't you feel it's sexist for all you folk to say she was only picked because she's a woman? and she does have executive office experience (i don't believe any of the other 3 do, but i could easily be wrong).

i already said that i hate women because not all of them will fuck me. what more could i say to come off more sexist?

[epo]

don't you feel it's sexist for all you folk to say she was only picked because she's a woman? and she does have executive office experience (i don't believe any of the other 3 do, but i could easily be wrong).

Yes, she is the only candidate with executive experience.

No it's not sexist to point out a candidate was selected for gender reasons when the candidate highlights that very point in her own introductory speech to the nation as she kissed up to Geraldine Ferraro and Hillary Clinton then dropped this number:

“It was rightly noted in Denver this week that Hillary left 18 million cracks in the highest, hardest glass ceiling in America,” Palin said. “But it turns out the women of America aren’t finished yet, and we can shatter that glass ceiling once and for all.”

If you can think of another reason that McCain picked her, despite her existence contradicting his entire argument against Senator Obama, I'd love to hear it.

[GreatAmericanZero]

Epo seems really into this political stuff

[TheMojoPin]

Epo seems really into this political stuff

Not much to do in Wisconsin besides grow old and die.

[sailor]

Totally pandering. But he was also doing it with a song not a pick. Also he obviously picked it in part because Bush used it during one of his runs...furthering a theme that he is shitting all over the Bush legacy.

He didn't do it to contradict a core message such as ...... "experience matters".



Exactly.

and biden wasn't done to placate old white guys on some level? or north-easterners? come on. and experience doesn't matter for vp nearly as much as for prez. if we worry about that, do we keep going down the whole line of succession checking everyone's credentials to be prez?

[HBox]

don't you feel it's sexist for all you folk to say she was only picked because she's a woman? and she does have executive office experience (i don't believe any of the other 3 do, but i could easily be wrong).

McCain has met her ONCE before today. Do you think that was enough for him to judge whether she was qualified to serve as President. I cannot give him the benefit of the doubt when he picks someone he barely knows.

[GreatAmericanZero]

and biden wasn't done to placate old white guys on some level? or north-easterners? come on. and experience doesn't matter for vp nearly as much as for prez. if we worry about that, do we keep going down the whole line of succession checking everyone's credentials to be prez?

i really do think George W. changed the way America takes its vice president. I remember when he chose Cheney, it changed everything. As hated as Cheney is today, when he was chosen, everyone was like "Cheney is a smart man and is a great choice"

Before the W. era, VP picks didn't mean much. But i think in the 21st century and beyond..its very very important.

And Biden was clearly chosen because he has a lot of foreign policy experience and hes an old white guy (stuff Obama lacked). It makes sense. Makes it a stronger ticket..i think anyone can agree with that. This broad, I don't know if she makes McCain stronger...I don't see it as of right now

[HBox]

and biden wasn't done to placate old white guys on some level? or north-easterners? come on. and experience doesn't matter for vp nearly as much as for prez. if we worry about that, do we keep going down the whole line of succession checking everyone's credentials to be prez?

The difference is Biden was picked because he appeals to those people on the issues. Palin absolutely does not appeal to Hillary voters on the issues. She's more socially conservative than McCain. That leaves only one, transparently obvious way that she appeals to Hillary voters.

[Dingbat_Charlie]

It is kind of scary to think that somebody with so little experience might be a few 72-year old heartbeats away from oval office. Though I'd still take her as president over, well, the president.

[sailor]

i really do think George W. changed the way America takes its vice president. I remember when he chose Cheney, it changed everything. As hated as Cheney is today, when he was chosen, everyone was like "Cheney is a smart man and is a great choice"

Before the W. era, VP picks didn't mean much. But i think in the 21st century and beyond..its very very important.

And Biden was clearly chosen because he has a lot of foreign policy experience and hes an old white guy (stuff Obama lacked). It makes sense. Makes it a stronger ticket..i think anyone can agree with that. This broad, I don't know if she makes McCain stronger...I don't see it as of right now

whether you think she's a good pick or not, it's no more pandering than biden or any other vp pick would be. it's done to help you with one group or another. period.

[GreatAmericanZero]

whether you think she's a good pick or not, it's no more pandering than biden or any other vp pick would be. it's done to help you with one group or another. period.

i gotta be honest..the people bringing up how old McCain is and how inexperienced she is is now really getting to me. When its the other way around its not as bad because Obama is selling himself...but McCain is selling himself, not this lady...but this lady could be president


Im just being honest..for real...its getting to me. its a damn good point

[HBox]

whether you think she's a good pick or not, it's no more pandering than biden or any other vp pick would be. it's done to help you with one group or another. period.

It's not that they are targeting people. It's how. She doesn't share anything with Hillary politically. This is at the very least creating the impression that McCain thinks people will vote for him simply because he has a woman on the ticket. Not because she's qualified to be President, not because they were close, not because she appeals to those voters on any policy ground. I haven't seen anything yet to suggest otherwise.

[joeyballsack]

So let me get this straight:

Its ok to be young, unexperienced and have no foriegn policy experience as President but not to be Vice President ?

Based on past history of our countries black leaders, you could also say Obama has as much of a chance of dying in office as Mcain if not greater.

(Note to the Secret Service: The above statement is not advocating violence in anyway)

[HBox]

So let me get this straight:

Its ok to be young, unexperienced and have no foriegn policy experience as President but not to be Vice President ?

Based on past history of our countries black leaders, you could also say Obama has as much of a chance of dying in office as Mcain if not greater.

(Note to the Secret Service: The above statement is not advocating violence in anyway)

Obama does have foreign policy experience. And if he does die he has a highly qualified VP.

[ahhdurr]

whether you think she's a good pick or not, it's no more pandering than biden or any other vp pick would be. it's done to help you with one group or another. period.

Exactamente.

The thing a bad VP pick has been about in terms of opposing attacks is painting the person as an awful choice as backup. The ads that ran during Mondale/Ferraro were almost dumb and blunt in the category of "do you want a PMSing broad with her finger on 'the button'?"

Especially in terms of McCain b/c he's already been painted as having a foot in the grave. One of the easiest ways to capitalize is going to be planting the assumption that you're actually voting for Palin.

[BinaryBimbo]

Just to clarify for everyone, it's pronounced "Pay-lin"

Thanks for clarifying that for me.

Nice pick by the way.

apparently it's PALE-in (http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Vote2008/story?id=5684098&page=1)

Thanks for clarifying that for me.

If this is a ploy to get female voters, it's insulting. Does McCain really think he'll fool anyone?

I think his campaign has bought into the PUMA nonsense, and believes there is a massive base of former Clinton supporters ready to jump. He is going to be quite disappointed.

I do think it will shore up woman who lean Right if she talks about health care and glass ceilings; but I agree that most of those Hillary people will go Obama.

This is always an interesting an illogical rhetorical debate due to the emotion but I'll try to map it out.

The conservatives have defined themselves as "Pro-Life", while liberals have defined themselves as "Pro-Choice".

Conservatives on this issue have defined their opponents has "Pro-Abortion" or nudge, nudge...babykillers. Liberals never bothered until recently to define their opponents as "Anti-Choice", but it is a valid rhetorical point.

I know conservatives don't like the "Anti-Choice" point, but logically it is completely valid in light of the issue. To argue otherwise is just silly.

Well if you put it like that it makes sense...

What a fool JerseySean is. When will he realize that women's rights doesn't stop at voting and equal pay. Rather, it extends to the right to impede the rights of others. Namely, the unborn. I mean, if you don't agree that women have the right to murder, then go eat a stegosaurus you damn dinosaur.

Right people are so afraid of giant lizards.

[ahhdurr]

So let me get this straight:

Its ok to be young, unexperienced and have no foriegn policy experience as President but not to be Vice President ?

Based on past history of our countries black leaders, you could also say Obama has as much of a chance of dying in office as Mcain if not greater.

(Note to the Secret Service: The above statement is not advocating violence in anyway)

There's a van outside your house - no sudden moves ok?

[GreatAmericanZero]

yeah..what is concerning me, as i said before is if McCain dies or becomes sick..cuz he is fuckin' old

but Obama is young and he is called "inexperienced", but he is selling himself. If Sarah Palin is as great of a speaker as Obama and is as charismatic and intelligent sounding..thats another thing (and to be fair, i haven't heard her speak yet. haven't heard of her til 3 hours ago). But people who are voting for Obama are taking a chance on Obama. If something happens to him, we have a qualified individual "just in case".

McCain, who is a likable man, is very old and there is more likely for something to happen to him. The people who are voting for him arent necessarily taking a chance on this Sarah Palin, shes just some chick McCain chose to be the VP. That is more scary to me....I can't explain it, but as someone who is trying to make up there mind as a voter, I see the big difference

[joeyballsack]

Obama does have foreign policy experience. And if he does die he has a highly qualified VP.


What foreign policy experience does he have ?

[Jujubees2]

yeah..what is concerning me, as i said before is if McCain dies or becomes sick..cuz he is fuckin' old

but Obama is young and he is called "inexperienced", but he is selling himself. If Sarah Palin is as great of a speaker as Obama and is as charismatic and intelligent sounding..thats another thing (and to be fair, i haven't heard her speak yet. haven't heard of her til 3 hours ago). But people who are voting for Obama are taking a chance on Obama. If something happens to him, we have a qualified individual "just in case".

McCain, who is a likable man, is very old and there is more likely for something to happen to him. The people who are voting for him arent necessarily taking a chance on this Sarah Palin, shes just some chick McCain chose to be the VP. That is more scary to me....I can't explain it, but as someone who is trying to make up there mind as a voter, I see the big difference


I think the inexperienced thing is a matter of the GOP saying one thing and doing another. The GOP started the whole "Obama doesn't have the experience to be president" mantra.

[joeyballsack]

I think the inexperienced thing is a matter of the GOP saying one thing and doing another. The GOP started the whole "Obama doesn't have the experience to be president" mantra.

Actually wasnt it Clinton and Biden saying that in the primaries ?

[HBox]

What foreign policy experience does he have ?

He's been on the Senate Foreign Relations committee since entering the Senate.

[GreatAmericanZero]

I think the inexperienced thing is a matter of the GOP saying one thing and doing another. The GOP started the whole "Obama doesn't have the experience to be president" mantra.

i agree. the "inexperience" mantra is the same thing as the "flip-flop" mantra when Kerry ran

And I really don't see what it means. Obama is going to have a staff and he will put qualified people in charge of what they are experienced in. Hes a smart man..he'll understand what his staff tells him. And I would think that for any intelligent presidential candidate. And thats why i feel like McCain is going to hurt himself by putting someone who can be labeled as "inexperience" just as much as his opponent. McCain will say "Obama, you are inexperienced" and Obama can say "yeah, we'll you're fuckin' old and that girl you have is worse than me. she can't even make a good speech". And then FACE to you republicans

I still consider myself a "swing voter" now. I may be a little leaning towards the Dems cuz i watched all that coverage, but I may sound completely different after the Republican convention. I'm one of those annoying swing voters everyone makes fun of

[GreatAmericanZero]

Actually wasnt it Clinton and Biden saying that in the primaries ?

yeah cuz they were trying to win. duh.

[AKA]

Yay Life!

http://rodfathermobile.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/windowslivewritermichaelconnickactuallylikesvista-df10image09.png

[sailor]

swing voters are morons.

[GreatAmericanZero]

swing voters are morons.

why? because we don't like to be told what to do and keep an open mind til we are certain. Wow we are such assholes

[HBox]

My mind is seriously blown that McCain picked Palin after meeting her only once or twice (I've heard either or). How can you pick someone who might be President after meeting them twice? And this was the man chiding Obama for allegedly putting politics in front of country.

[epo]

and biden wasn't done to placate old white guys on some level? or north-easterners? come on. and experience doesn't matter for vp nearly as much as for prez. if we worry about that, do we keep going down the whole line of succession checking everyone's credentials to be prez?

Was an element of selecting Biden to appeal to working-class whites? Certainly.

But there is something to be said for a candidate's selection of running mate. It is the first real decision that a presidential candidate makes and is idealistically seen as the first signal as voters as to the "future president's" decision making process.

So Senator Obama picked a 36-year veteran with vast experience in domestic and foreign policy making, who can help him negotiate the waters of Washington. Senator McCain picked an Alaskan governor with experience as a mayor of a 9,000 population and 1.5 years of experience in the governors chair to gain favor with the PUMA crowd.

McCain essentially did two rhetorical two things with this pick. He weakened his best argument (Obama is inexperienced) and strengthened his opponents best argument (Judgment is greater than experience).

[HBox]

why? because we don't like to be told what to do and keep an open mind til we are certain. Wow we are such assholes

Make up your mind already! We're waiting ova here!

[AKA]

I was going to make this point when I logged back in, but since you did I thought I would just bring attention back to it, because it speaks VOLUMES to me that McCain did this out of weakness - she may very well be outside of Washington, but this is the skeeviest, cynical, POLITICAL choice he could have made, and speaks volumes to his character since the 2000 election. John McCain is a phony. Phooey!

McCain has met her ONCE before today.

[GreatAmericanZero]

i gotta learn more about Palin, but it seems impressive to me that she is the Governor of Alaska. Men out number women so much in Alaska..she does prove that men will vote for her. I need to learn more about this chick. I hope some nude pictures surface of her..that would be hot!

[NewYorkDragons80]

No it's not sexist to point out a candidate was selected for gender reasons when the candidate highlights that very point in her own introductory speech to the nation as she kissed up to Geraldine Ferraro and Hillary Clinton then dropped this number:
It is sexist to say Biden is gonna wipe the floor with her if all you know about her is her gender and what you found by googling her name for 10 mins.
If you can think of another reason that McCain picked her, despite her existence contradicting his entire argument against Senator Obama, I'd love to hear it.
She's a proven reformer who has had a dramatic change on Alaska politics. She also has the highest approval rating of any elected official in the country.

[Freakshow]

I don't think this was done for swing voters or Hillary voters at all. I think it was to energize the conservative base that elected Bush twice (the second time in the middle of a very unpopular war). If it gets a couple of extra women votes that's probably nice. But she seems like Rommney without the Mormon baggage.

[Friday]

Epo seems really into this political stuff

understatement of the year! w00t!


oh. and i agree with the anti-banana clip sentiments of earlier today. :smile:

[GreatAmericanZero]

i was just reading her Wiki. She won 2nd in Miss Alaska beauty pagent. That means shes a pretty chick. Girls hate women that are pretty. She wont get the chick vote


Lets see someone call me sexist now!

[epo]

It is sexist to say Biden is gonna wipe the floor with her if all you know about her is her gender and what you found by googling her name for 10 mins.

Actually I'm basing that claim on experience. How in the hell is she going to hold up to Biden on foreign affairs? He was in Georgia 10 days ago. How is she going to hold up to him on women's rights? He wrote the Defense of Women Act? How is she going to hold up to him on crime? He wrote the Clinton Crime Bill.

On personal credibility alone, I don't she how she is going to hold up to Joe. Will she put up a good fight? Sure, but Biden is a great debater and knows how to transition that experience into rhetoric.

She's a proven reformer who has had a dramatic change on Alaska politics. She also has the highest approval rating of any elected official in the country.

Ok, she's popular. What is the "proven record" of reform?

[GreatAmericanZero]

and in all honesty, is Alaska really a state?

As the great Ronnie B said "to be a state you have to touch a state"

[Tenbatsuzen]

Okay, aging Presidential candidate makes somewhat inexperienced woman his VP to pick up key demos, then he dies in office, and his V.P. takes over the country. Does this sound to anyone like it could be an 80s Touchstone comedy starring Goldie Hawn?

No, a failed TV show with Geena Davis.

[GreatAmericanZero]

No, a failed TV show with Geena Davis.

i forgot about that. I remember having a conversation with Sheepy about that show..i couldn't remember the title, and sheepy said that it was called "First Cunt". Hes a very offensive person

[Tenbatsuzen]

:smile: you know what I meant, fella

OK, follow the logic:

Palin was compared to look like Dr. Melfi - Lorraine Bracco.

Bracco was in goodfellas.

There was a scene were Bracco was roughed up by some neighborhood toughs. She was crying and Henry Hill flipped out and pistolwhipped them.

[Tenbatsuzen]

i forgot about that. I remember having a conversation with Sheepy about that show..i couldn't remember the title, and sheepy said that it was called "First Cunt". Hes a very offensive person

Commander in Chief. Kyle Secor played the "First Husband"?? Sutherland was the slimy republican.

I miss Kyle Secor. He ruled in HLOTS.

[Tenbatsuzen]

and in all honesty, is Alaska really a state?

As the great Ronnie B said "to be a state you have to touch a state"

Doesn't Obama have roots with Hawaii?

[GreatAmericanZero]

Doesn't Obama have roots with Hawaii?

yeah he was born in Hawaii...but hes senator of a real state, Illinois. John McCain was born in the Panama Canal on a naval base..we don't bust his balls about that either.

[epo]

Doesn't Obama have roots with Hawaii?

Born in Hawaii, raised in Kansas & Hawaii.

[HBox]

Doesn't Obama have roots with Hawaii?

Yes. They tried to make him change his name to Toby but he didn't God bless him.

::wipes away a tear::

[Tenbatsuzen]

It is sexist to say Biden is gonna wipe the floor with her if all you know about her is her gender and what you found by googling her name for 10 mins.

She's a proven reformer who has had a dramatic change on Alaska politics. She also has the highest approval rating of any elected official in the country.

Sexist?

I wouldn't think Hilary Clinton would get killed in a debate, and she wouldn't.

You do realize that she wasn't even in Kindergarten yet when Biden was taking his Senate seat?

Yes, she's young. But she's more conservative than McCain, and that makes me NOT WANT TO VOTE FOR HER. Not because she's a woman. She has LOW experience and his platform is repugnant to me. THAT'S why I don't like her as a pick.

This is pandering by the McCain camp to pick up the PUMAs. Plain and fucking simple.

Approval ratings mean shit when you've only been on the job 18months. You wanna know what Bush's approval ratings were 18 months into the job?

"Effect on Alaska Politics"? ALASKA IS THE LEAST POPULATED STATE IN THE UNION! It's basically being the Mayor of a mid-sized city.

[Tenbatsuzen]

Yes. They tried to make him change his name to Toby but he didn't God bless him.

::wipes away a tear::

Obama, a genuine lazy bum... I know we'll make it through... hard times in the EEUU....

[GreatAmericanZero]

Yes. They tried to make him change his name to Toby but he didn't God bless him.

::wipes away a tear::

haha...you gotta admit "Chicken George" sounds very presidential

[GreatAmericanZero]

Obama, a genuine lazy bum... I know we'll make it through... hard times in the EEUU....

hey if voting for Obama makes a meal of Chicken Wings & Lemonade more acceptable, I'm there. Thats delicious

[HBox]

hey if voting for Obama makes a meal of Chicken Wings & Lemonade more acceptable, I'm there. Thats delicious

That's change I believe in.

[Tenbatsuzen]

That's change I believe in.

YES WE CAN!

[Tenbatsuzen]

I'm inspired to re-writes patches now.

[GreatAmericanZero]

I'm inspired to re-writes patches now.

im so used to the "Black Earl" version, when I hear the real "patches" i think its a parody of "Black Earl"

[Zorro]

Sexist?

I wouldn't think Hilary Clinton would get killed in a debate, and she wouldn't.

You do realize that she wasn't even in Kindergarten yet when Biden was taking his Senate seat?

Yes, she's young. But she's more conservative than McCain, and that makes me NOT WANT TO VOTE FOR HER. Not because she's a woman. She has LOW experience and his platform is repugnant to me. THAT'S why I don't like her as a pick.

This is pandering by the McCain camp to pick up the PUMAs. Plain and fucking simple.

Approval ratings mean shit when you've only been on the job 18months. You wanna know what Bush's approval ratings were 18 months into the job?

"Effect on Alaska Politics"? ALASKA IS THE LEAST POPULATED STATE IN THE UNION! It's basically being the Mayor of a mid-sized city.

All the guys that hate women say stuff like this...

[scottinnj]

First off, I think I've earned the right to say I told you so, since I called this months ago.



Yes you did, and I secretly was rooting for her as well for the GOP side. Biden is a good choice for Obama, but I had hoped he had picked Richardson as his running mate. Hell, I hoped the Dems had picked Richardson for the nomination.

[scottinnj]

All right some one had to say it.

Id hit it.
Shes got kinds a Tina Fey vibe thats working for me in a big way
http://livingalaska.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/sarah_palin2.jpg
http://wonkette.com/assets/resources/2006/12/Miss%20Wasilla%201984.jpg
Plus she'll fish with ya Im in
http://www.alaskaseafood.org/industry/enews/092607govpalinfish.jpg



OH, HELL YEAH!!

[scottinnj]

She sprearheaded passing parental consent laws,

You are pro-choice but against parental rights?


(see how complicated it gets?)

[scottinnj]

I don't think this was done for swing voters or Hillary voters at all. I think it was to energize the conservative base that elected Bush twice (the second time in the middle of a very unpopular war). If it gets a couple of extra women votes that's probably nice. But she seems like Rommney without the Mormon baggage.


http://noondayranch.com/library/COWBELL-1.JPG


Send Freakshow to the Big Ass Prize Closet! That's exactly what it was for. She's probably the only true conservative on the national level since Ronald Reagan that could help McCain heal his rift with the base of the GOP.

Plus she's hot.:smoke:

[scottinnj]

I need to learn more about this chick. I hope some nude pictures surface of her..that would be hot!

I dare you to rub one out in the voting booth. Double-dog dare you.

[NewYorkDragons80]

Sexist?

I wouldn't think Hilary Clinton would get killed in a debate, and she wouldn't.

You do realize that she wasn't even in Kindergarten yet when Biden was taking his Senate seat?
Yes, she's young. But she's more conservative than McCain, and that makes me NOT WANT TO VOTE FOR HER. Not because she's a woman. She has LOW experience and his platform is repugnant to me. THAT'S why I don't like her as a pick.
None of those has anything to do with your baseless claim that Biden would wipe the floor with Palin. I say baseless because you've never seen her debate. Of course you're welcome to disagree with her on absolutely every issue. Not voting for her is your decision, but saying she is going to lose a debate with Biden is something you said when you haven't even heard her speak. She went toe to toe with a 4 term senator and incumbent governor and embarassed him. Obama, on the other hand, has debated Alan Keyes, Hillary Clinton, and chickened out of the Town Hall debates.

This is pandering by the McCain camp to pick up the PUMAs. Plain and fucking simple.

Approval ratings mean shit when you've only been on the job 18months. You wanna know what Bush's approval ratings were 18 months into the job?
It's not about pandering, you silly little goose. It's about someone who's actually brought change to a state where many thought change was impossible. Ethics reform, refusing the bridge to nowhere, state budget cuts, local revenue sharing, taking on oil companies, building the natural gas pipeline which many thought was impossible, denying pet projects, selling off the creature comforts of previous administrations, and on and on and on. She isn't Bush and this isn't 2002, so good for you and your approval ratings.

"Effect on Alaska Politics"? ALASKA IS THE LEAST POPULATED STATE IN THE UNION! It's basically being the Mayor of a mid-sized city.
But it has a huge oil and natural gas supply and an entrenched political machine that she turned around. It's like when Obama was governor of... I mean mayor of... I mean office branch manager...

[scottinnj]

Born in Hawaii, raised in Kansas & Hawaii.

Another plus in my book for Obama. You can ALWAYS trust a Kansan.

[Tenbatsuzen]

None of those has anything to do with your baseless claim that Biden would wipe the floor with Palin. I say baseless because you've never seen her debate. Of course you're welcome to disagree with her on absolutely every issue. Not voting for her is your decision, but saying she is going to lose a debate with Biden is something you said when you haven't even heard her speak. She went toe to toe with a 4 term senator and incumbent governor and embarassed him. Obama, on the other hand, has debated Alan Keyes, Hillary Clinton, and chickened out of the Town Hall debates.


I heard her speak today. She sounded like Mary Lou Retton as a motivational speaker. Julie, your cruise director. A hottie pharmaceutical rep. Yeah, she's energetic. And definitely not your typical politician.



It's not about pandering, you silly little goose.


You use a show reference. You invalidate your points and I stop reading.

[Tenbatsuzen]

Another plus in my book for Obama. You can ALWAYS trust a Kansan.

http://www.patfullerton.com/superman/pix/clark/clark1978c.jpg

[HBox]

refusing the bridge to nowhereHer opposition was lukewarm, if non-existent. (http://blogs.tnr.com/tnr/blogs/the_plank/archive/2008/08/29/did-palin-really-fight-the-bridge-to-nowhere.aspx)

Link not working at the moment, here's some of it:

Republicans have been heavily touting Sarah Palin's reformist credentials, with her supposed opposition to Alaska's "Bridge to Nowhere" as Exhibit A (http://voices.washingtonpost.com/capitol-briefing/2008/08/palin_and_mccain_share_enemies.html). But how hard did she really fight the project? Not very, it seems. Here's what she told the Anchorage Daily News on October 22, 2006, during the race for the governor's seat (via Nexis): 5. Would you continue state funding for the proposed Knik Arm and Gravina Island bridges?
Yes. I would like to see Alaska's infrastructure projects built sooner rather than later. The window is now--while our congressional delegation is in a strong position to assist.So she was very much for the bridge and insisted that Alaska had to act quickly—the party of Ted Stevens and Don Young might soon lose its majority, after all. By that point, the project was endangered for reasons that had nothing to do with Palin—the bridge had become a national laughingstock, Congress had stripped away the offending earmark, shifting the money back to the state's general fund, and future federal support seemed unlikely. True, after Palin was sworn into office that fall, her first budget didn't allocate any money for the bridge. But when the Daily News asked on December 16, 2006, if she now opposed the project, Palin demurred and said she was just trying to figure out where the bridge fit on the state's list of transportation priorities, given the lack of support from Congress. Finally, on September 19, 2007, she decided to redirect funds away from the project altogether with this sorry-sounding statement (http://74.125.95.104/search?q=cache:RL3FJAhN1ksJ:gov.state.ak.us/archive.php%3Fid%3D623%26type%3D1+%22Ketchikan+des ires+a+better+way+to+reach+the+airport,+but+the+%2 4398+million+bridge+is+not+the+answer&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3&gl=us&client=firefox-a):
"Ketchikan desires a better way to reach the airport, but the $398 million bridge is not the answer," said Governor Palin. "Despite the work of our congressional delegation, we are about $329 million short of full funding for the bridge project, and it's clear that Congress has little interest in spending any more money on a bridge between Ketchikan and Gravina Island," Governor Palin added. "Much of the public's attitude toward Alaska bridges is based on inaccurate portrayals of the projects here. But we need to focus on what we can do, rather than fight over what has happened."
Maybe I've missed something, but it sure lookslike she was fine with the bridge in principle, never had a problem with the earmarks, bristled at all the mockery, and only gave up on the project when it was clear that federal support wasn't forthcoming. Now, Charles Homans, who knows Alaska well, says (http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2008_08/014463.php) Palin's anti-corruption instincts are fairly solid (she sold off the gubenatorial jet upon taking office, for one), and a casual Nexis search suggests that she's fiscally conservative (insofar as that term makes sense in a quasi-socialist state like Alaska), but this hardly looks like the "Mr. Smith Goes To Washington" moment everyone's making it out to be.

[epo]

Guess who has a rich history of supporting Pat Buchanan.....

From an AP report in 1999: (http://www.thenation.com/blogs/jstreet/350730/sarah_palin_buchananite)

"Pat Buchanan brought his conservative message of a smaller government and an America First foreign policy to Fairbanks and Wasilla on Friday as he continued a campaign swing through Alaska. Buchanan's strong message championing states rights resonated with the roughly 85 people gathered for an Interior Republican luncheon in Fairbanks. … Among those sporting Buchanan buttons were Wasilla Mayor Sarah Palin and state Sen. Jerry Ward, R-Anchorage."

Don't believe me....listen to Pat talk about Governor Palin....

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/U9rZkJfKoEU&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/U9rZkJfKoEU&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[scottinnj]

That actually brings me some comfort....Pat Buchanan was one of the few conservatives opposed to the initial invasion of Iraq.

[Ritalin]

don't you feel it's sexist for all you folk to say she was only picked because she's a woman? and she does have executive office experience (i don't believe any of the other 3 do, but i could easily be wrong).

She was only picked because she is a woman.

Does anyone seriously doubt that? The same person, exact same credentials - only XY - doesn't get a chance at the short list.

[NewYorkDragons80]

Tenbat... You quoted a black earl song 2 pages ago. What's your fuckin problem?

[epo]

That actually brings me some comfort....Pat Buchanan was one of the few conservatives opposed to the initial invasion of Iraq.

I understand that. I've got a pretty simple rule of thumb with Pat....

Pat on my TV = interesting ideologue.
Pat in my elected office = frightening ideologue.

[Dudeman]

http://tizona.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/sarah_palin_02.jpg

palin is to women's causes as clarence thomas is to african-american causes.

(i just put the picture in to draw attention.)

[Tenbatsuzen]

http://tizona.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/sarah_palin_02.jpg

palin is to women's causes as clarence thomas is to african-american causes.

(i just put the picture in to draw attention.)

Is this recent? If so, notice that #5 is missing from this picture.

[Tallman388]

That's a dumb analogy.
By virtue of Thomas being the second black supreme court justice, he further advances the cause of African-Americans much like Palin being the second woman VP Nominee further advances women's causes. While neither are the best example that women or african-americans may want, future generations will look back and consider them someone to thank for their respective contributions, whether they agree with their politics or not.

[Tallman388]

Is this recent? If so, notice that #5 is missing from this picture.

#5 is still pretty young, so it's probably not too recent

[Friday]

just to put it out there.
this woman ... who is supposedly going to 'get the hockey-mom vote'... is leaving her child, who is less than 5 months old.... to campaign for Vice President.

i am sorry... but considering her stance on abortion, ( her poor choice in hair accessories), and the fact that she feels fine leaving her infant child with others while she pursues her own ambitions... leaves me to believe that she is not going to hit the notes with the wide variety of women she is expected to.

on the outside... classic choice by McCain ... but only because she is a female.
but any woman with pride in family and the right to choose will see this as a surface choice.
i guess the republicans will have to sit back and hope that middle americans are as stupid as they were eight years ago.

[Dudeman]

That's a dumb analogy.
By virtue of Thomas being the second black supreme court justice, he further advances the cause of African-Americans much like Palin being the second woman VP Nominee further advances women's causes. While neither are the best example that women or african-americans may want, future generations will look back and consider them someone to thank for their respective contributions, whether they agree with their politics or not.

nothing you said changes my statement. (in some ways it actually stregthens my statement... thanks)

[Tenbatsuzen]

#5 is still pretty young, so it's probably not too recent

Number 5 was born less than six months ago... but it will be very telling if Palin doesn't make her a focal point of the campaign if the other kids are featured.

[Tenbatsuzen]

just to put it out there.
this woman ... who is supposedly going to 'get the hockey-mom vote'... is leaving her child, who is less than 5 months old.... to campaign for Vice President.

i am sorry... but considering her stance on abortion, ( her poor choice in hair accessories), and the fact that she feels fine leaving her infant child with others while she pursues her own ambitions... leaves me to believe that she is not going to hit the notes with the wide variety of women she is expected to.

on the outside... classic choice by McCain ... but only because she is a female.
but any woman with pride in family and the right to choose will see this as a surface choice.
i guess the republicans will have to sit back and hope that middle americans are as stupid as they were eight years ago.

FYI, the kid has Down's Syndrome too. You get +1 from me.

[Tallman388]

nothing you said changes my statement. (in some ways it actually stregthens my statement... thanks)

I don't see how, but congratulations.

[Tenbatsuzen]

FYI, the kid has Down's Syndrome too. You get +1 from me.

Not to quote myself, but this plus Tracey's point about the kid needing her mom will be Biden's blazing sword. Of course, now that it's out there, I'm sure the GOP will be preparing a response that her father is taking care of her.

[Tallman388]

Not to quote myself, but this plus Tracey's point about the kid needing her mom will be Biden's blazing sword. Of course, now that it's out there, I'm sure the GOP will be preparing a response that her father is taking care of her.

Or a response about Biden's child rearing skills. Or probably an off topic response like, "how would Joe know? He still thinks he graduated in the top half of his law school class."

[epo]

I'm just throwing this out there......

The more and more I think about this selection, the harder and harder I rack my brain. This can't possibly be about women, not with her views on women's rights and moral issues. This has to have a point and be able to fix a weakness for McCain.

All I can come up with is this...McCain got hammered last week on the "house" thing. Not necessarily because of the number of houses, but because of the impression of Senator McCain being out of touch with the average American in a shit economy.

So he and his people came up with a "hail mary" on Governor Palin. But what is her contribution? ANWAR and domestic drilling. That will be his link to the American people that he "gets it"...and will fix their pocket book.

[epo]

Not to quote myself, but this plus Tracey's point about the kid needing her mom will be Biden's blazing sword. Of course, now that it's out there, I'm sure the GOP will be preparing a response that her father is taking care of her.

Nice point, especially in light of Biden's history and the "My boys need a dad more than Delaware needs a Senator" story.

[scottinnj]

just to put it out there.
this woman ... who is supposedly going to 'get the hockey-mom vote'... is leaving her child, who is less than 5 months old.... to campaign for Vice President.



dumb analogy. I don't think Obama has seen much of his two girls in the past few months either, yet you seem not to have a problem with him.

I guess her husband is playing Mr. Mom right now.

[AKA]

Guess who has a rich history of supporting Pat Buchanan.....

From an AP report in 1999: (http://www.thenation.com/blogs/jstreet/350730/sarah_palin_buchananite)

Yup - I was going to post this too.

So, she and her husband actually saw Patrick Buchanan speak to the nation back in 1992, where he declared his "US against THEM" cultural war and they agreed so much they took up the cause several years later?

Ughhttp://www.politicsandtechnology.com/images/gop.elephant.dead.jpg

[Tenbatsuzen]

dumb analogy. I don't think Obama has seen much of his two girls in the past few months either, yet you seem not to have a problem with him.

I guess her husband is playing Mr. Mom right now.

There is a tremendous difference between the ages of Obama's girls and a baby that is less than five months old who is developmentally disabled.

[Friday]

FYI, the kid has Down's Syndrome too. You get +1 from me.

oooooh. this is big for us. :wink:

[NewYorkDragons80]

Nobody would be discussing whether she should be paying more attention to her family if she was a man. Oops, I forgot my opinions aren't valid because I quote the show this board is based around. Except when tenbatsuzen does it...

[HBox]

If anyone in Obama's campaign comes after her about her son it is political suicide. Leave it be. Her family is her own business.

[Tenbatsuzen]

This has been a very fucking weird day for me. Who would have thought you'd see the day that I'm turning my back on the Republican party?

[scottinnj]

I'm just throwing this out there......

The more and more I think about this selection, the harder and harder I rack my brain. This can't possibly be about women, not with her views on women's rights and moral issues. This has to have a point and be able to fix a weakness for McCain.


Occam's razor, bro. It's all about shoring up the base and making nice nice with conservatives after all his tomfoolerly being the maverick in the party.

[HBox]

This has been a very fucking weird day for me. Who would have thought you'd see the day that I'm turning my back on the Republican party?

Some said this day will never come. What are they to say now?

[scottinnj]

There is a tremendous difference between the ages of Obama's girls and a baby that is less than five months old who is developmentally disabled.

Not as a political argument. It's just dumb.

[scottinnj]

This has been a very fucking weird day for me. Who would have thought you'd see the day that I'm turning my back on the Republican party?

Welcome brother. Breathe the fresh air of (I) independant status. It's invigorating.

[Tenbatsuzen]

If anyone in Obama's campaign comes after her about her son it is political suicide. Leave it be. Her family is her own business.

Not necessarily. Biden will get a lot of women to turn their back on Palin if he brings up the fact that she's putting a career in front of her own child that has special needs.

That could backfire; Palin did not take maternity leave when Trig was born (I thought it was a daughter, it's actually a son) so who knows. It's a dicey situation.

[Friday]

dumb analogy. I don't think Obama has seen much of his two girls in the past few months either, yet you seem not to have a problem with him.

I guess her husband is playing Mr. Mom right now.

you don't have kids do you?
and if you do ... well then i am not sure how you can feel this way.

in the first year of life there is no more important presence than the Mother and the Father.
but, understandably so, it is the Mother who occupies the most important role in these important months.

and many women go to work again... even within a few months. but campaigning and then possibly occupying the job of Vice President is not the same as your run of the mill Admin, Lawyer, Marketing, or even Sales position.

Obamas girls are older... they still need their dad and they do get to see alot of him. Much like Carter's daughter, Chelsea Clinton, and numerous kids before them did. But this is a Newborn we are talking about... and a disabled newborn to boot.

[epo]

If anyone in Obama's campaign comes after her about her son it is political suicide. Leave it be. Her family is her own business.

Exactly. If people on the street say it...fine, you can't control that. But anyone involved with the campaign in any remote way is NOT to talk about that. Ever.

[Tenbatsuzen]

Some said this day will never come. What are they to say now?

To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women.

[sailor]

just to put it out there.
this woman ... who is supposedly going to 'get the hockey-mom vote'... is leaving her child, who is less than 5 months old.... to campaign for Vice President.

i am sorry... but considering her stance on abortion, ( her poor choice in hair accessories), and the fact that she feels fine leaving her infant child with others while she pursues her own ambitions... leaves me to believe that she is not going to hit the notes with the wide variety of women she is expected to.

on the outside... classic choice by McCain ... but only because she is a female.
but any woman with pride in family and the right to choose will see this as a surface choice.
i guess the republicans will have to sit back and hope that middle americans are as stupid as they were eight years ago.

if she was a man, you'd never consider that question. do you realize how sexist that is? (i believe her husband takes care of the kids, but i could be mistaken.)

yeah, i'm late to the party and others have said similar things already. meh.

[Tenbatsuzen]

Nobody would be discussing whether she should be paying more attention to her family if she was a man. Oops, I forgot my opinions aren't valid because I quote the show this board is based around. Except when tenbatsuzen does it...

See. this is why you can't debate. "Silly goose" is an O&A show reference, you're on RonFez.net.

[Tenbatsuzen]

if she was a man, you'd never consider that question. do you realize how sexist that is? (i believe her husband takes care of the kids, but i could be mistaken.)

HER HUSBAND IS AN OIL MAN!

[Tenbatsuzen]

Nice point, especially in light of Biden's history and the "My boys need a dad more than Delaware needs a Senator" story.

Biden lost his wife and his daughter in the accident, right?

[Friday]

if she was a man, you'd never consider that question. do you realize how sexist that is? (i believe her husband takes care of the kids, but i could be mistaken.)

did you miss the sentence where i noted that the MOTHER is the most important contact a child can have in it's first year of life??

i know you are a new daddy... and i respect and fully understand the importance that position holds, but it is not comparable to a newborn child's bond to it's mother.

[HBox]

Not necessarily. Biden will get a lot of women to turn their back on Palin if he brings up the fact that she's putting a career in front of her own child that has special needs.

That could backfire; Palin did not take maternity leave when Trig was born (I thought it was a daughter, it's actually a son) so who knows. It's a dicey situation.

As a side note, did you hear the story of her giving birth to her last child?

Governor Sarah Palin welcomed her fifth child into the world today. Her spokesperson, Sharon Leighow says Palin interrupted a meeting of the Governors’ Energy Conference in Texas yesterday when she recognized she was going into labor. Leighow says the labor subsided enough for Palin to return to Alaska on a late flight before giving birth this morning.

Link here. (http://aprn.org/2008/04/18/governor-palin-gives-birth-to-5th-child/)

I also heard it mentioned on MSNBC that she gave a speech after her water broke, but I can't get that confirmed anywhere else.

But I'm going to give her the benefit of the doubt and wait for someone to explain to me why flying back to Alaska to give birth was a good idea.

[epo]

Biden lost his wife and his daughter in the accident, right?

Yes. And both sons were hospitalized for a length of time.

[Tenbatsuzen]

As a side note, did you hear the story of her giving birth to her last child?



Link here. (http://aprn.org/2008/04/18/governor-palin-gives-birth-to-5th-child/)

I also heard it mentioned on MSNBC that she gave a speech after her water broke, but I can't get that confirmed anywhere else.

But I'm going to give her the benefit of the doubt and wait for someone to explain to me why flying back to Alaska to give birth was a good idea.

http://www.ktuu.com/global/story.asp?s=8194634

She gave a speech in TEXAS and then flew to Alaska. Not only that, the baby was a month premature.

I love this warm and fuzzy CRAP quote.



"Trig is beautiful and already adored by us. We knew through early testing he would face special challenges, and we feel privileged that God would entrust us with this gift and allow us unspeakable joy as he entered our lives. We have faith that every baby is created for good purpose and has potential to make this world a better place. We are truly blessed."

[scottinnj]

you don't have kids do you?
and if you do ... well then i am not sure how you can feel this way.

in the first year of life there is no more important presence than the Mother and the Father.
but, understandably so, it is the Mother who occupies the most important role in these important months.

and many women go to work again... even within a few months. but campaigning and then possibly occupying the job of Vice President is not the same as your run of the mill Admin, Lawyer, Marketing, or even Sales position.

Obamas girls are older... they still need their dad and they do get to see alot of him. Much like Carter's daughter, Chelsea Clinton, and numerous kids before them did. But this is a Newborn we are talking about... and a disabled newborn to boot.

Yes, three. If you are going to use this argument, then you could say that Obama's two girls are moving into the age group where they will need their father at home to be a role model while they try to figure boys out. See how I reversed the argument? And I'm not even the political genius Karl Rove, who, like him or not, will be "advising" the McCain campaign and don't you think he isn't prepared for an argument like that?

As a parent, I know what you are saying. I had problems with the governor of Massachussetts (correct me if I'm wrong) who is governing the state with newborn twins. It just doesn't sit right.

But politically, its a dumb argument to bring up because of years of NOW arguments that said "women and mothers have as much right in the workplace as men do"

[sailor]

did you miss the sentence where i noted that the MOTHER is the most important contact a child can have in it's first year of life??

i know you are a new daddy... and i respect and fully understand the importance that position holds, but it is not comparable to a newborn child's bond to it's mother.

first, i quoted something like a full page before you threw out that 2nd line. 2nd i disagree. traditionally, that may be true, but if the father is the primary care-giver the baby would bond just as closely as he would have with the mother.

[Tenbatsuzen]

Hbox -

Should McCain's introduction of Palin be the depressing line of the day?

If not, "Is your son an organ donor?" should be.

[Friday]

Yes, three. If you are going to use this argument, then you could say that Obama's two girls are moving into the age group where they will need their father at home to be a role model while they try to figure boys out. See how I reversed the argument? And I'm not even the political genius Karl Rove, who, like him or not, will be "advising" the McCain campaign and don't you think he isn't prepared for an argument like that?

As a parent, I know what you are saying. I had problems with the governor of Massachussetts (correct me if I'm wrong) who is governing the state with newborn twins. It just doesn't sit right.

But politically, its a dumb argument to bring up because of years of NOW arguments that said "women and mothers have as much right in the workplace as men do"

NOW is not the organization one should use in the choosing of a political candidate.

I know... because i was an active member for 6 years.

[scottinnj]

NOW is not the organization one should use in the choosing of a political candidate.

I know... because i was an active member for 6 years.

Agreed, but you get my point right?


Edit: I used to be a card-carrying member of the NRA. Hint-don't vote for the candidate they endorse.

[Friday]

first, i quoted something like a full page before you threw out that 2nd line. 2nd i disagree. traditionally, that may be true, but if the father is the primary care-giver the baby would bond just as closely as he would have with the mother.

it has nothing to do with tradition... it is scientifically proven.

and one of the main reasons men feel 'replaced' after the birth of a child...because the mother/child bond is so strong.

[AKA]

This morning Rev. Dobson, from the "Focus On The Family" cult, came out and said he support McCain, after the Palin pick (http://www.politico.com/blogs/jonathanmartin/0808/Dobson_greenlights_McCainPalin.html) - this after saying that he would never vote for the man, under any circumsta (http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=53743)nce.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/images2/dobson.jpg

Meanwhile, we are 24 hours removed from last night, and Dobson still hasn't explained why Jesus didn't listen to him - after all, about 2 weeks ago they all prayed for God to rain on Obama's big night.

Here's a quote from Stuart Shepard director of digital media from that group, captured on video:

I'm talking 'umbrella-ain't-going-to-help-you rain. I'm still pro life, and I'm still in favour of marriage as being between one man and one woman. And I would like the next president who will select justices for the next Supreme Court to agree.

and

Sure it's boyish humour perhaps to wish for something like that. But at the same time it's something people feel very strongly about. They're concerned about where he would take the nation.

And a Noah size rain was going to fix it for them?

So, what does it say about God's moral compass that it was, by all accounts, a gorgeous night last night in Denver - or that now a hurricane is barreling down on the Gulf Coast on the eve of the Republican Convention - 3 years since a major US city was washed away from another hurricane, killing more than 1500 people, and exposing hideous weaknesses in this Republican administration? What's God's big message there?

Interesting that the Democrats held their convention on the 88th Anniversary of Women's Right to Vote and the 45th Anniversary of the MLK speech - while the Republicans are holding their convention during the 3rd Anniversary of the Katrina aftermath or the 41st Anniversary of the final episode of GILLIGAN'S ISLAND.

[Tenbatsuzen]

This morning Rev. Dobson, from the "Focus On The Family" cult, came out and said he support McCain, after the Palin pick (http://www.politico.com/blogs/jonathanmartin/0808/Dobson_greenlights_McCainPalin.html) - this after saying that he would never vote for the man, under any circumsta (http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=53743)nce.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/images2/dobson.jpg

Meanwhile, we are 24 hours removed from last night, and Dobson still hasn't explained why Jesus didn't listen to him - after all, about 2 weeks ago they all prayed for God to rain on Obama's big night.

Here's a quote from Stuart Shepard director of digital media from that group, captured on video:



and



And a Noah size rain was going to fix it for them?

So, what does it say about God's moral compass that it was, by all accounts, a gorgeous night last night in Denver - or that now a hurricane is barreling down on the Gulf Coast on the eve of the Republican Convention - 3 years since a major US city was washed away from another hurricane, killing more than 1500 people, and exposing hideous weaknesses in this Republican administration? What's God's big message there?

Interesting that the Democrats held their convention on the 88th Anniversary of Women's Right to Vote and the 45th Anniversary of the MLK speech - while the Republicans are holding their convention during the 3rd Anniversary of the Katrina aftermath or the 41st Anniversary of the final episode of GILLIGAN'S ISLAND.

Why the fuck is this tool using the Canadian/English spelling of "Favor"?

[HBox]

it has nothing to do with tradition... it is scientifically proven.

and one of the main reasons men feel 'replaced' after the birth of a child...because the mother/child bond is so strong.

http://briancromer.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/ron-burgundy.jpg

"It's science."

[sailor]

it has nothing to do with tradition... it is scientifically proven.

and one of the main reasons men feel 'replaced' after the birth of a child...because the mother/child bond is so strong.

from psychology today: (http://psychologytoday.com/articles/index.php?term=19960501-000041&page=3)

Subsequent inquiries showed that while fathers could be as nurturing as mothers, they tended to leave such duties to moms.

...


And when fathers are primary caregivers, they are likely to display many of the so-called maternal traits.

i know there's more, but i'm too tired to hunt down studies.

[scottinnj]

And a Noah size rain was going to fix it for them?

This is why I won't vote R this year or for a long while....my conservative Christian brothers and sisters in the GOP have lost their googly-eyed minds.

[thejives]

He only met her once ... but once was enough.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2351/1903451448_635a36aed2_o.jpg

This will definitely be an interesting race. Where's K.C.'s in depth analysis?

However, I'm dismayed by the abortion talk. Some posters I have a lot of respect for took the slightest provocation from Missy to go nuts. It would be nice if you guys could show some class, state your opinion, and then talk about the VP pick without launching a crusade.

Let's remember the real loser in all of this. Mitt Romney.

[HBox]

Let's remember the real loser in all of this. Mitt Romney.

The world surely weeps for him.

[thejives]

The world surely weeps for him.

$40 million of his own money, and all he has to show for it are a dozen blond sons named Tab.

[DolaMight]

She was only picked because she is a woman.

Does anyone seriously doubt that? The same person, exact same credentials - only XY - doesn't get a chance at the short list.

Yeah it seems that way but her record placates the red state fear of mccain's loose stance on abortion and gay marriage. He threw them a bone so they'll all show up and although true liberal women will not fall for the ploy a good portion of hillary's support was just because she's female, just as a good portion of obama's support is because he's black. Simple people like historical firsts, it's fun to be a part of something. In an election that's gonna be 50/50 again those few fools could make the difference.

McCain weighed her inexperience and the fact she'll likely assume power as he'll likely die in office and still it made more sense than romney or any other.

The thought of a soccermom as the most powerful person in the world scares me but I'll borrow the Obama defense and state that whatever happens she'll surround herself with smart people as all Presidents do and she'll be as capable as any other just as Obama would be.

[thejives]

http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2369/11524337/20431407/332353267.jpg

[DolaMight]

If anyone in Obama's campaign comes after her about her son it is political suicide. Leave it be. Her family is her own business.

actual excerpt from transcript of 08 VP debate moderated by Charles Gibson.

BIDEN: Let me say first that I think Mrs. Palin and her husband love their son. I think they love him very much. And you can't have anything but respect for the fact that they're willing to talk about the fact that they have a down syndrome son, the fact that they embrace him.

GIBSON: Mrs.Palin, response?

PALIN: Well, Charles, let me simply thank the senator for the kind words he said about my family and our son. I appreciate that very much.

GIBSON: That's it?

PALIN: That's it.

[Dudeman]

The thought of a soccermom as the most powerful person in the world scares me but I'll borrow the Obama defense and state that whatever happens she'll surround herself with smart people as all Presidents do and she'll be as capable as any other just as Obama would be.

Yeah but Obama was also President of the Harvard Law review, so he knows a little something about the law and constitution, which are probably helpful as President.

(I'm sure our current president still doesnt know much about law and the constitution beyond a superficial familiarity.)

[HBox]

I keep coming back to this because it blows my mind. John McCain picked a person who could eventually be President after meeting her once. ONCE. When I was younger I needed more interviews to get a job at Great Adventure than it took for Sarah Palin to get a job that could conceivably end up with her being President of the United States of America.

[DolaMight]

Yeah but Obama was also President of the Harvard Law review, so he knows a little something about the law and constitution, which are probably helpful as President.

(I'm sure our current president still doesnt know much about law and the constitution beyond a superficial familiarity.)

And she'll surely have another President of the Harvard Law review advising her plus she knows how to ride a snowmobile. Advantage Palin.

As for G.W. if he had croneys leading him in a wiser direction people wouldn't be as likely to think he's an ignorant monster like he's perceived as being. It's all about who you surround yourself with.

[El Mudo]

Yeah it seems that way but her record placates the red state fear of mccain's loose stance on abortion and gay marriage. He threw them a bone so they'll all show up and although true liberal women will not fall for the ploy a good portion of hillary's support was just because she's female, just as a good portion of obama's support is because he's black. Simple people like historical firsts, it's fun to be a part of something. In an election that's gonna be 50/50 again those few fools could make the difference.

McCain weighed her inexperience and the fact she'll likely assume power as he'll likely die in office and still it made more sense than romney or any other.

The thought of a soccermom as the most powerful person in the world scares me but I'll borrow the Obama defense and state that whatever happens she'll surround herself with smart people as all Presidents do and she'll be as capable as any other just as Obama would be.



stop calling her a "soccer mom"


She's a hockey mom goddammit

[DolaMight]

I keep coming back to this because it blows my mind. John McCain picked a person who could eventually be President after meeting her once. ONCE. When I was younger I needed more interviews to get a job at Great Adventure than it took for Sarah Palin to get a job that could conceivably end up with her being President of the United States of America.

Does it really matter?

Here fill out this form and check off all the boxes that apply to you. As with most competitions the process consists of one interview and an exam. The winner is the person with the highest score on the test and unless they physically assaulted a board member or made numerous threats against the united nations the exam winner gets the job.

She had the most qualifications that met the requirements of his respective constituency. What she brings is what he was looking for. So he met Romney on multiple occasions, does that really mean Romney is more qualified?

[DolaMight]

stop calling her a "soccer mom"


She's a hockey mom goddammit

UK Telagraph:

McCain picks "Footballmom for VP"

happy?

[DolaMight]

stop calling her a "soccer mom"


She's a hockey mom goddammit

I bet she was a puckbunny too.

[HBox]

Does it really matter?

Here fill out this form and check off all the boxes that apply to you. As with most competitions the process consists of one interview and an exam. The winner is the person with the highest score on the test and unless they physically assaulted a board member or made numerous threats against the united nations the exam winner gets the job.

She had the most qualifications that met the requirements of his respective constituency. What she brings is what he was looking for. So he met Romney on multiple occasions, does that really mean Romney is more qualified?

How can you judge if a person can do the job of being President meeting them once? It shows that McCain was deeply unserious about this process. He made a choice based on politics with barely a thought to whether she was qualified. The closest parallel I can think of is Harriet Miers.

Palin might be ready to be President. I don't know, you don't know. But neither does John McCain. He didn't even make the effort to find out. That says a lot more about John McCain than anyone else.

[Tenbatsuzen]

How can you judge if a person can do the job of being President meeting them once? It shows that McCain was deeply unserious about this process. He made a choice based on politics with barely a thought to whether she was qualified. The closest parallel I can think of is Harriet Miers.

Palin might be ready to be President. I don't know, you don't know. But neither does John McCain. He didn't even make the effort to find out. That says a lot more about John McCain than anyone else.

I agree with this. McCain made this big show of having Romney, Crist, Jindal, and others at his ranch in Sedona over the fourth of July in order to get to know them.

Even Obama knew of or at the very least worked with Biden on the Senate floor.

But he met her... once.

That doesn't even qualify if you'll SLEEP with them, let alone RUN THE FUCKING COUNTRY.

[keithy_19]

I agree with this. McCain made this big show of having Romney, Crist, Jindal, and others at his ranch in Sedona over the fourth of July in order to get to know them.

Even Obama knew of or at the very least worked with Biden on the Senate floor.

But he met her... once.

That doesn't even qualify if you'll SLEEP with them, let alone RUN THE FUCKING COUNTRY.

I would sleep with her and her elder daughter. She is a very impressive femle. Something even Hillary said. I see this as a brilliant move by McCain.

I find it even more amazing (and awesome) that by the end of this election we will have made United States Histoy.

[led37zep]

I find it even more amazing (and awesome) that by the end of this election we will have made United States Histoy.

And the sun will still rise regardless of the outcome, that (in itself) is history.

[DolaMight]

Palin might be ready to be President. I don't know, you don't know. But neither does John McCain. He didn't even make the effort to find out. That says a lot more about John McCain than anyone else.

Exactly. Only McCain and his staff knows. We can only speculate. His handlers have stated repeatedly that she has been studied and evaluated for months. McCain's staff have done well for him thus far. They recommended her and he then met with her. He must have seen a hint of what they saw and because he trusts their judgment therefore he made that decision. It's really not as crazy as you make it out to be. It's still about surrounding yourself with good people.

[HBox]

Exactly. Only McCain and his staff knows. We can only speculate. His handlers have stated repeatedly that she has been studied and evaluated for months. McCain's staff have done well for him thus far. They recommended her and he then met with her. He must have seen a hint of what they saw and because he trusts their judgment therefore he made that decision. It's really not as crazy as you make it out to be. It's still about surrounding yourself with good people.

The first and only time he met her was in February. That was before he even won the nomination. The next time he saw her he was introducing her as his VP. That does not sit well with me at all. Some choices are too important to leave completely to your staff as McCain did here. This was the most important decision he has made since deciding to run for President and he left it all to his staff?

[DolaMight]

The first and only time he met her was in February. That was before he even won the nomination. The next time he saw her he was introducing her as his VP. That does not sit well with me at all. Some choices are too important to leave completely to your staff as McCain did here. This was the most important decision he has made since deciding to run for President and he left it all to his staff?

I don't even know if it was all left to his staff but if it wasn't and he had a good impression of her in the one time they met how does it make a difference if he met huckabee 10x more. Politicians are phony, they say what you want to hear. At some point what you are on paper and persona win out.

Obama's staffers told him Biden was his best chance to win, as did McCain's with Palin. Palin never said McCain is all there, apt and cleancut for his age, do you think Biden's comment went over well with Obama? Unlikely. Yet Obama listened to his staffers to his staffers advice over personal issues. That's politics.

[HBox]

I don't even know if it was all left to his staff but if it wasn't and he had a good impression of her in the one time they met how does it make a difference if he met huckabee 10x more. Politicians are phony, they say what you want to hear. At some point what you are on paper and persona win out.

Obama's staffers told him Biden was his best chance to win, as did McCain's with Palin. Palin never said McCain is all there, apt and cleancut for his age, do you think Biden's comment went over well with Obama? Unlikely. Yet Obama listened to his staffers to his staffers advice over personal issues. That's politics.

George W. Bush met Vladimir Putin once. He looked in his eyes and got a sense of his soul. That worked out well.

Obama met and worked with Biden. They were both Senators. They've worked together throughout Obama's entire Senate career on the foreign relations committee. They know each other, they know how to work together and most importantly on top of that Biden has had a very long and public career in government.

And Joe Biden was quite clearly and obviously not his best chance to win. That was Hillary Clinton.

[PapaBear]

He only met her once ... but once was enough.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2351/1903451448_635a36aed2_o.jpg


Who's that?

[DolaMight]

George W. Bush met Vladimir Putin once. He looked in his eyes and got a sense of his soul. That worked out well.

Leave mission accomplished out of this. He's no maverick.

And Joe Biden was quite clearly and obviously not his best chance to win. That was Hillary Clinton.

I cede this point. Hillary woulda got him a couple more votes while losing some moderates for Biden.

FYI - I like Obama, I just don't think he's as straight as McCain. Either way it's a welcome change.

I don't like that McCain has to play games to get elected but I've been a fan and followed him long enough to know that some of these necessary politics must be eating him up.

I give it up to both candidates thus far for running a respectful swiftboat free campaign. Very refreshing.

[scottinnj]

He only met her once ... but once was enough.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2351/1903451448_635a36aed2_o.jpg



Who's that?

Geena Davis if her daddy had a drunk brother.

[JerseySean]

She was only picked because she is a woman.

Does anyone seriously doubt that? The same person, exact same credentials - only XY - doesn't get a chance at the short list.

Yes Bobby Jindal was on the short list. And its not because he's indian/

[HBox]

Yes Bobby Jindal was on the short list. And its not because he's indian/

It was because he was an exorcist. (http://www.newoxfordreview.org/article.jsp?did=1294-jindal)

[JerseySean]

I'm just throwing this out there......

The more and more I think about this selection, the harder and harder I rack my brain. This can't possibly be about women, not with her views on women's rights and moral issues. This has to have a point and be able to fix a weakness for McCain.


You are wrong on this. Sarah Palin is the ideal 21st century woman. Shes not some NOW or NARAL dyke who is still looking to burn her bra. She is a college educated blue collar girl who is smart, wholesome, feminine and embodies the values of many Americans; family, hard work, public service and success. She had a child with downs and continued to work hard for Alaska. She is what the real 21st century women and families strive for and she has her femininity.

[epo]

You are wrong on this. Sarah Palin is the ideal 21st century woman. Shes not some NOW or NARAL dyke who is still looking to burn her bra. She is a college educated blue collar girl who is smart, wholesome, feminine and embodies the values of many Americans; family, hard work, public service and success. She had a child with downs and continued to work hard for Alaska. She is what the real 21st century women and families strive for and she has her femininity.

I'm wrong and McCain picked Palin for her experience as a mayor of 9,000 strong? Or her 1.5 years of experience of governorship? Especially in light of his telling us that EXPERIENCE is what matters in this election.

Was it her hatred of polar bears? Or her affiliation with Pat Buchanan? Or her beauty pageant status? Or her disdain of her own rights?

Honestly, what is the point of this candidate...and please save me your Hannity fanboy bullshit. How does she honestly help Senator John McCain?

If I'm so wrong about her helping him on ANWAR, then what is the goddamned point?

[JerseySean]

How can you judge if a person can do the job of being President meeting them once? It shows that McCain was deeply unserious about this process. He made a choice based on politics with barely a thought to whether she was qualified. The closest parallel I can think of is Harriet Miers.

Palin might be ready to be President. I don't know, you don't know. But neither does John McCain. He didn't even make the effort to find out. That says a lot more about John McCain than anyone else.

Obama made his pick based on politics. The Biden pick was a gross overreaction to the situation in Georgia and Obama's failure to properly respond to the situation and react in a timely manner. Here is the difference.

OBAMA, inexperienced...running for PRESIDENT
PALIN.......inexperienced...running for VICE PRESIDENT. She will learn in the process and if God forbid something were to happen to MCCain, one would assume she willl have learned on the job. Obama has demonstrated throughout the campaign that he just doesnt understand foreign policy. Attacking Pakistan, lame reaction to Russia/Georgia, talking to Iran, etc., etc., etc. Lets see what Palin does

[JerseySean]

I'm wrong and McCain picked Palin for her experience as a mayor of 9,000 strong? Or her 1.5 years of experience of governorship? Especially in light of his telling us that EXPERIENCE is what matters in this election.

Was it her hatred of polar bears? Or her affiliation with Pat Buchanan? Or her beauty pageant status? Or her disdain of her own rights?

Honestly, what is the point of this candidate...and please save me your Hannity fanboy bullshit. How does she honestly help Senator John McCain?

If I'm so wrong about her helping him on ANWAR, then what is the goddamned point?

It is experience and judgement. Obama has shown he has neither. Also, she brings women to the table as I stated above.

[epo]

It is experience and judgement. Obama has shown he has neither. Also, she brings women to the table as I stated above.

Experience and judgment.

The VP pick is a candidates first "display" to the public of their judgment. Obama picked the most qualified man that he could find. McCain picked a person he met once in the spring who filled a political gap.

If you think that McCain's pick is the real judgment of a political leader in this nation then you are part of the problem.

[KnoxHarrington]

Obama made his pick based on politics. The Biden pick was a gross overreaction to the situation in Georgia and Obama's failure to properly respond to the situation and react in a timely manner. Here is the difference.

OBAMA, inexperienced...running for PRESIDENT
PALIN.......inexperienced...running for VICE PRESIDENT. She will learn in the process and if God forbid something were to happen to MCCain, one would assume she willl have learned on the job. Obama has demonstrated throughout the campaign that he just doesnt understand foreign policy. Attacking Pakistan, lame reaction to Russia/Georgia, talking to Iran, etc., etc., etc. Lets see what Palin does

Couldn't I just as easily say that the Palin pick is a gross overreaction to the invented media bullshit "PUMA" story as well?

It's an idiotic pick that completely negates the attack McCain had that had the best chance of sticking.

[JerseySean]

Experience and judgment.

The VP pick is a candidates first "display" to the public of their judgment. Obama picked the most qualified man that he could find. McCain picked a person he met once in the spring who filled a political gap.

If you think that McCain's pick is the real judgment of a political leader in this nation then you are part of the problem.

I think Obama's nomination by the Ds shows a lack of judgement on behalf of the Dem electorate. Moreover, Obama picked Biden because he blew the answer on the Georgia situation, plain and simple. Biden is a weak pick, politically. Palin could turn out to be a great move as it brings women to the table. Also guys, there is only one President that I can name who chose someone purely for experience and knowledge and not politics. That is Bush with his pick of Cheney. everything else was politics pure and simple. Biden and Palin is for pure political reasons. Recognize that and lets stop pretending either of these picks are for experience or reformers or for whatevver. They both sure up weaknesses or enhance the ticket in some way by innoculating from future attacks or blunders. EPO, just recognize this and take the discussion from there.

[JerseySean]

Couldn't I just as easily say that the Palin pick is a gross overreaction to the invented media bullshit "PUMA" story as well?

It's an idiotic pick that completely negates the attack McCain had that had the best chance of sticking.

No, Obama made a blunder with Georgia. Puma was just a story and i sincerely doubt it had any influence in the decision making process.

[keithy_19]

It's anti-choice to me, sorry. Pro-"life" indicates there is a "life" somehow being "saved". That, my friend, is rhetoric up the ass. Might seem insignificant to you, but you're a male, correct? Sorry, as a woman, it's a GIGANTIC issue to me in many ways - and I will never support someone who is against abortion rights, as I feel it is an indicator of their deeper feelings towards women.

What if you agree with everything else the person believes in? I know that's never the case, but it's just a hypothetical.

[keithy_19]

To be entirely honest, seeing what Paline has accoplished in her life, FROM HUMBLE BEGINNINGS, while having multiple children, one with a devestating condition, I can't help but think she is one of the most remarkable examples of what a female can accomplish in a still very male controlled world. Good for her. Good pick for McCain.

[keithy_19]

Experience and judgment.

The VP pick is a candidates first "display" to the public of their judgment. Obama picked the most qualified man that he could find. McCain picked a person he met once in the spring who filled a political gap.


Obama picked Biden, though personally Biden comes off as a very smug person. Something that Obama has been criticized of being as of late. And Obama needed a vp who filled the gap of foreign policy.

McCain may have picked a vp who he doesn't have a strong relationship with, but he does pick a candidate who can go toe to toe with Obama over how she came from nothing and made something of herself (much like Obama's message). You have a strong female who has proven she has the ability to fight for what she belives in and get things passed, all while keeping the population pretty steadfast in liking her.

Great choice by Senator McCain in my opinion.

[LordJezo]

http://www.fohguild.org/forums/attachments/screenshots/86644d1220036174-funny-strange-random-pics-2808213597_d09b3bf54f.jpg

[Tenbatsuzen]

You are wrong on this. Sarah Palin is the ideal 21st century woman. Shes not some NOW or NARAL dyke who is still looking to burn her bra. She is a college educated blue collar girl who is smart, wholesome, feminine and embodies the values of many Americans; family, hard work, public service and success. She had a child with downs and continued to work hard for Alaska. She is what the real 21st century women and families strive for and she has her femininity.

She hasn't raised a kid with downs, she only had him 4 months ago.

And how the hell can someone who is pro-life and pro-creationism a "21st century woman"?

[Tenbatsuzen]

http://www.fohguild.org/forums/attachments/screenshots/86644d1220036174-funny-strange-random-pics-2808213597_d09b3bf54f.jpg

Aw, FUCK. He's right.

[Dudeman]

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_CSUPQ7EpU_4/R7YtsE6IMLI/AAAAAAAAGAk/iylVohIFwSY/bentsen_quayle1002-735139.jpg

governor, i know hillary clinton. hillary clinton is a friend of mine. governor, you're no hillary clinton.

[GreatAmericanZero]

i dont think i understand america.

i looked up google trends to see where Sarah Palin fell, she wasn't in there, but number 4 and 6 was about that awful "For Better or Worse" comic strip. WTF?

[TheMojoPin]

You are wrong on this. Sarah Palin is the ideal 21st century woman. Shes not some NOW or NARAL dyke who is still looking to burn her bra.

AKA she's YOUR kind of 21st century woman because she shuts the fuck up and doesn't make waves and "knows her place."

[KnoxHarrington]

Hey, let's play a game. I'll post a quote, you tell me where it's from. Ready? Here we go.

Sarah Palin may well have concealed inner reservoirs of greatness. I hope so! But I'd guess that John McCain does not have a much better sense of who she is, what she believes, and the extent of her abilities than my enthusiastic friends over at the Corner. It's a wild gamble, undertaken by our oldest ever first-time candidate for president in hopes of changing the board of this election campaign. Maybe it will work. But maybe (and at least as likely) it will reinforce a theme that I'd be pounding home if I were the Obama campaign: that it's John McCain for all his white hair who represents the risky choice, while it is Barack Obama who offers cautious, steady, predictable governance.

Here's I fear the worst harm that may be done by this selection. The McCain campaign's slogan is "country first." It's a good slogan, and it aptly describes John McCain, one of the most self-sacrificing, gallant, and honorable men ever to seek the presidency.

But question: If it were your decision, and you were putting your country first, would you put an untested small-town mayor a heartbeat away from the presidency?

Daily Kos? Some op-ed in the New York Times? MSNBC?

Nope.

It's David Frum, in the National Review Online.

Republicans are starting to get what a monumental fuck-up this was.

http://frum.nationalreview.com/post/?q=M2VhOWE0N2VkOWI3MDdlODRlZWE4ODljMDc2NjliZDk=

[KnoxHarrington]

AKA she's YOUR kind of 21st century woman because she shuts the fuck up and doesn't make waves and "knows her place."

That quote made me change my mind about where he's getting his "research". I was thinking Hannity, now I'm thinking it's from Michael "Savage" Weiner.

[CruelCircus]

AKA she's YOUR kind of 21st century woman because she shuts the fuck up and doesn't make waves and "knows her place."

Everything I've been reading about her seems to indicate this is exactly the opposite of who she is.

[TheMojoPin]

Everything I've been reading about her seems to indicate this is exactly the opposite of who she is.

I was talking about JerseySean's summation of the "perfect 21st century woman." Declarations that someone is a "real woman" because she isn't a "feminist dyke" say a lot.

[Dan 'Hampton]

She's something different from the 3 other career politicians in this race. Whats the harm in that? I'm having a hard time seeing how change will come from anyone inside the beltway.

[CruelCircus]

Well, then, you didn't make your point very well.

[CruelCircus]

The more and more I think about this selection, the harder and harder I rack my brain. This can't possibly be about women, not with her views on women's rights and moral issues.

I keep reading these statements about women's rights as if they are foregone conclusions. When will you guys get that your view on what constitutes "women's rights" and "moral issues" is NOT universally accepted? You can't just state things like that as fact.

I myself am "pro-choice", but I realize that about half the women in this country don't think that way. To them, Sarah Palin is a great example, and a great role-model. (Not counting the ones who think she shouldn't be running for office in the first place...)

[epo]

No, Obama made a blunder with Georgia.

How? Tell me how Obama made a blunder with Georgia and I want links. Prove this statement with something I call facts.

[Tenbatsuzen]

i dont think i understand america.

i looked up google trends to see where Sarah Palin fell, she wasn't in there, but number 4 and 6 was about that awful "For Better or Worse" comic strip. WTF?

The author is retiring.

[Tenbatsuzen]

I keep reading these statements about women's rights as if they are foregone conclusions. When will you guys get that your view on what constitutes "women's rights" and "moral issues" is NOT universally accepted? You can't just state things like that as fact.

I myself am "pro-choice", but I realize that about half the women in this country don't think that way. To them, Sarah Palin is a great example, and a great role-model. (Not counting the ones who think she shouldn't be running for office in the first place...)

Pro-choice doesn't mean pro-abortion. I would much rather see a woman carry to term and give it up for adoption, but that's not my CHOICE because it's a woman's body.

Pro-choice is about women's rights, it's the utmost CORNERSTONE of women's rights, whether they believe in it or not.

You do understand that blacks in the south back in the day still rode in the back of the bus even after they didn't have to, right?

Her being pro-life isn't my problem, it's pro-life/teach creationism which I REALLY have a problem with. Apparently, some people didn't get the memo about the separation of church and school.

You do realize that people who are pro-life and teach creationism are the same ones who are anti-stem cell?


OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHH.

THERE'S A BIDEN BLAZING SWORD.

He can't attack her directly on her kid, but if he puts the implication out there that stem cell research can help kids with birth defects...

[GreatAmericanZero]

she wants to teach creationism? Yuck. So basically we have a VP candidate thats as smart as Earl..thats great.

[sailor]

The author is retiring.

nerd.

[epo]

I think Obama's nomination by the Ds shows a lack of judgement on behalf of the Dem electorate.

So defeating one of the greatest political machines in our modern age means that Obama is a bad politician? I don't get your point.

Moreover, Obama picked Biden because he blew the answer on the Georgia situation, plain and simple.

Proof of this statement?

Biden is a weak pick, politically.

Once again this statement has no proof. I'll give you polling data to the contrary:

Perceptions with independent (http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/08/can-biden-out-hillary-hillary.html)s:

Candidate Fav-Unfav
Biden 42-29 (+13)
Bayh 31-21 (+10)
Kaine 24-23 (+1)
Sebelius 18-21 (-3)
Clinton 39-57 (-18)

As you can see, from the DATA, Senator Biden was the strongest candidate amongst independents from the "top choices". Weak pick my ass.

Palin could turn out to be a great move as it brings women to the table.

Once again NO PROOF. I'll give you proof to the contrary. When polled on the question: "Is Sarah Palin ready to be President?" she polled at a -23 with women (http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/08/women-more-skeptical-of-palin-than-men.html). -23

Great move my ass.

Also guys, there is only one President that I can name who chose someone purely for experience and knowledge and not politics. That is Bush with his pick of Cheney. everything else was politics pure and simple. Biden and Palin is for pure political reasons. Recognize that and lets stop pretending either of these picks are for experience or reformers or for whatevver. They both sure up weaknesses or enhance the ticket in some way by innoculating from future attacks or blunders.

Certainly there is always an element of politics in the selection, but honestly it is the first test of the potential president's decision making. They must be able to be ready to serve immediately in the chance that something could happen to the president. History and William Henry Harrison tell us that.

Are you going to tell me that John Edwards was a good pick?
Are you going to tell me that Dan Quayle was a good pick?
Are you going to tell me that Thomas Eagleton was a good pick?

At the end of the day, Sarah Palin is less qualified than all of them.

EPO, just recognize this and take the discussion from there.

I recognize this, that you are a man that needs to start bringing some proof to these discussions otherwise you are just another gasbag who is puking up what Sean Hannity tells you.

[JerseySean]

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_CSUPQ7EpU_4/R7YtsE6IMLI/AAAAAAAAGAk/iylVohIFwSY/bentsen_quayle1002-735139.jpg

governor, i know hillary clinton. hillary clinton is a friend of mine. governor, you're no hillary clinton.

OK Debbie Wasserman Schultz

[JerseySean]

AKA she's YOUR kind of 21st century woman because she shuts the fuck up and doesn't make waves and "knows her place."

Does she? Because she stirred up more shit in Alaska than anyone ever had before. She has bigger balls than McCain or obama. Oh but wait, because I am a Republican, I must want women to shut up and stay in the kitchen right? So smug dude.

[Friday]

i think this all calls for the introduction of LIVE DEBATES in the chat room!

[GreatAmericanZero]

Does she? Because she stirred up more shit in Alaska than anyone ever had before. She has bigger balls than McCain or obama. Oh but wait, because I am a Republican, I must want women to shut up and stay in the kitchen right? So smug dude.

"Stirring up Shit" in Alaska is like Rocking the house at your high school's "battle of the band" though

[epo]

And how the hell can someone who is pro-life and pro-creationism a "21st century woman"?

Here is the best part of the pro-creationism stuff......her dad was a science teacher!

Oh the irony.................

[JerseySean]

How? Tell me how Obama made a blunder with Georgia and I want links. Prove this statement with something I call facts.

He got destroyed in the media for it and dropped 4 points in the gallup tracking on or around Aug 11th. McCain gave a stong response to Russia, Obama played kittie-kat and dropped in the tracking.

[Friday]

He got destroyed in the media for it and dropped 4 points in the gallup tracking on or around Aug 11th. McCain gave a stong response to Russia, Obama played kittie-kat and dropped in the tracking.

meow meow LINKS? meow FACTS meow meow.

[Tenbatsuzen]

"Stirring up Shit" in Alaska is like Rocking the house at your high school's "battle of the band" though

QFT. They stir up shit in New Jersey, or Texas, or Florida, that's something else. But Alaska? Again, there's only 600,000 people there. Not for nothing, Corey Booker has generated more change.

Charlie Crist would have been a better choice, IMHO.

[JerseySean]

meow meow LINKS? meow FACTS meow meow.

On August 8th, 48-42 Obama, on August 12th tied at 44

http://www.gallup.com/poll/109564/Gallup-Daily-McCain-Obama-Tied-44.aspx

[Tenbatsuzen]

meow meow LINKS? meow FACTS meow meow.

I should photoshop that headshot of you to have cats-eyes and whiskers

[Tenbatsuzen]

With the initial "shock" over, I am going to wait til her speech at the RNC and the debate before I make my final decision. Maybe NYD80 and JerseySean have a point. I don't think they do, but maybe.

[JerseySean]

QFT. They stir up shit in New Jersey, or Texas, or Florida, that's something else. But Alaska? Again, there's only 600,000 people there. Not for nothing, Corey Booker has generated more change.

Charlie Crist would have been a better choice, IMHO.

First of all Booker has generated NO change. Second, http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/013/851orcjq.asp

[JerseySean]

Also, Obama lost ground after Biden.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/109834/Gallup-Daily-Bounce-Obama-Post-Biden-Tracking.aspx

So much for that big Biden approval

[epo]

He got destroyed in the media for it and dropped 4 points in the gallup tracking on or around Aug 11th. McCain gave a stong response to Russia, Obama played kittie-kat and dropped in the tracking.

Since you can't fucking answer this question I will. Here are the statements from both candidates (http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/08/08/1255737.aspx):

Senator Obama:

“I strongly condemn the outbreak of violence in Georgia, and urge an immediate end to armed conflict. Now is the time for Georgia and Russia to show restraint, and to avoid an escalation to full scale war. Georgia’s territorial integrity must be respected. All sides should enter into direct talks on behalf of stability in Georgia, and the United States, the United Nations Security Council, and the international community should fully support a peaceful resolution to this crisis.”

Senator McCain

"[T]he news reports indicate that Russian military forces crossed an internationally recognized border into the sovereign territory of Georgia. Russia should immediately and unconditionally cease its military operations and withdraw all forces from sovereign Georgian territory. What is most critical now is to avoid further confrontation between Russian and Georgian military forces. The consequences of Euro-Atlantic stability and security are grave. The government of Georgia has called for a ceasefire and for a resumption of direct talks on South Ossetia with international mediators. The U.S. should immediately convene an emergency session of the United Nations Security Council to call on Russia to reverse course. The U.S. should immediately work with the EU and the OSCE to put diplomatic pressure on Russia to reverse this perilous course that it has chosen."

"I repeat, the government of Georgia has called for a ceasefire and for a resumption of direct talks on South Ossetia with international mediators. The United States should immediately convene an emergency session of the United Nations Security Council and to call on Russia to reverse course. The U.S. should immediately work with the EU and the OSCE to put diplomatic pressure on Russia to reverse this perilous course that it has chosen. We should immediately call a meeting of the North Atlantic Council to asses Georgia's security and review measures NATO can take to contribute to stabilizing this very dangerous situation. Finally, the international community needs to establish a truly independent and neutral peacekeeping force in South Ossetia."

They said the same fucking thing, except McCain felt the need to repeat himself.

[Friday]

I should photoshop that headshot of you to have cats-eyes and whiskers

it would be appropriate... http://www.ronfez.net/forums/images/icons/icon10.gif

[sailor]

alaska 1st in area, 47th in population

delaware 49th in area, 45th in population

i remember it being equally as big a deal when biden was selected.

[JerseySean]

Since you can't fucking answer this question I will. Here are the statements from both candidates (http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/08/08/1255737.aspx):

Senator Obama:



Senator McCain



They said the same fucking thing, except McCain felt the need to repeat himself.

OBAMA dropped 4 points in 3 days during the Georgia crisis. There is my proof, see above

[JerseySean]

Since you can't fucking answer this question I will. Here are the statements from both candidates (http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/08/08/1255737.aspx):

Senator Obama:



Senator McCain



They said the same fucking thing, except McCain felt the need to repeat himself.

No you missed it dude:

Of course we have to deal with Russia and we deal with Putin," McCain told Pennsylvania radio station WITF. "But it has to be on a very realistic basis. And not one that there's any illusions about his ambitions."

McCain, who said he doesn't view the current conflict as a reignition of the Cold War, told NPR that the U.S. and its allies must "make the Russians understand that this kind of behavior is not a part of what we view as the 21st century."

At a town hall meeting attended by more than 2,000 in York, Pa., McCain recounted his conversation with Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili.

"I told him that I know I speak for every American when I say to him, today, we are all Georgians," he said.

[epo]

OBAMA dropped 4 points in 3 days during the Georgia crisis. There is my proof, see above

While Michael Phelps was swimming, Georgia was not a huge story to most Americans. (Although it did receive coverage, but honestly not enough.) The bigger story in the political race was this angle by John McCain:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/2c0vctCfhH8&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/2c0vctCfhH8&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[epo]

No you missed it dude:

Of course we have to deal with Russia and we deal with Putin," McCain told Pennsylvania radio station WITF. "But it has to be on a very realistic basis. And not one that there's any illusions about his ambitions."

McCain, who said he doesn't view the current conflict as a reignition of the Cold War, told NPR that the U.S. and its allies must "make the Russians understand that this kind of behavior is not a part of what we view as the 21st century."

At a town hall meeting attended by more than 2,000 in York, Pa., McCain recounted his conversation with Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili.

"I told him that I know I speak for every American when I say to him, today, we are all Georgians," he said.

Mind you also, Senator Obama was on vacation at the time.

[scottinnj]

AKA she's YOUR kind of 21st century woman because she shuts the fuck up and doesn't make waves and "knows her place."

Well, she's governor. That's a pretty good spot to be "placed in"

[JerseySean]

While Michael Phelps was swimming, Georgia was not a huge story to most Americans. (Although it did receive coverage, but honestly not enough.) The bigger story in the political race was this angle by John McCain:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/2c0vctCfhH8&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/2c0vctCfhH8&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

No dude, it was Russia and Georgia. If any campaign could make an ad that could tank an opponent like that in 3 days, this thing would be over already. You are overvaluing that ad.

[Tenbatsuzen]

Mind you also, Senator Obama was on vacation at the time.

He's right. Obama was completely off the radar when he was in Hawaii for the week.

That could explain the drop. McCain got some solo spotlight time.

[CruelCircus]

Pro-choice doesn't mean pro-abortion.

Of course, but I'm not sure where you got that from what I wrote.

I would much rather see a woman carry to term and give it up for adoption, but that's not my CHOICE because it's a woman's body.

Well, luckily in this country, we don't limit the right to have opinion and form policy by genitalia.

Pro-choice is about women's rights, it's the utmost CORNERSTONE of women's rights, whether they believe in it or not. You do understand that blacks in the south back in the day still rode in the back of the bus even after they didn't have to, right?

Pro-choice is about societal beliefs, it's about personal and social responsibility, and it's about how we as people go about family and bringing along the next generation. I hate when people try to cut men out of the debate. It's a bullshit argument to say "you don't have to carry the baby, so you don't have the right to have an opinion." Every issue has implications far beyond the people most directly affected by it. To use your inflammatory analogy, it'd be like saying since you don't have to ride in the back of the bus, you're not allowed to have an opinion on race relations.

Her being pro-life isn't my problem, it's pro-life/teach creationism which I REALLY have a problem with. Apparently, some people didn't get the memo about the separation of church and school.
You do realize that people who are pro-life and teach creationism are the same ones who are anti-stem cell?

None of this has anything to do with what I wrote. My point was that people are working with built-in assumptions on what constitutes true women's rights. Their arguments are then intellectually deficient, b/c it doesn't acknowledge the reality of the differences and nuance among us.

THERE'S A BIDEN BLAZING SWORD.

Stop handing out glowing weaponry!!

[JerseySean]

Quote:
Pro-choice is about women's rights, it's the utmost CORNERSTONE of women's rights, whether they believe in it or not. You do understand that blacks in the south back in the day still rode in the back of the bus even after they didn't have to, right?

Are you really comparing those two things. Again, I am basically pro-choice, but you just dont even understand the otherside of that argument. This sounds like something Olberman would say.

[epo]

No dude, it was Russia and Georgia. If any campaign could make an ad that could tank an opponent like that in 3 days, this thing would be over already. You are overvaluing that ad.

He's right. Obama was completely off the radar when he was in Hawaii for the week.

That could explain the drop. McCain got some solo spotlight time.

McCain was running negative ads about Senator Obama for two straight weeks hammering him, Obama went on vacation and then Georgia happened.

Honestly, when looking at the polling, you should be ashamed that McCain didn't pick up 8 points.

[JerseySean]

McCain was running negative ads about Senator Obama for two straight weeks hammering him, Obama went on vacation and then Georgia happened.

Honestly, when looking at the polling, you should be ashamed that McCain didn't pick up 8 points.

Obama still had ads running, both positive and negative. Numbers dont move like that without a catastophic event. The typical static of a campaign wouldnt move numbers like that. To pick up 8 would be impossible.

[Tenbatsuzen]

Obama still had ads running, both positive and negative. Numbers dont move like that without a catastophic event. The typical static of a campaign wouldnt move numbers like that. To pick up 8 would be impossible.

Georgia hardly qualifies as a "catastrophic event".

[JerseySean]

Georgia hardly qualifies as a "catastrophic event".

Exactly, which is why the 4 points was a max for McCain anbd it wasnt just the ads. Want clear on that, sorry

[epo]

Obama still had ads running, both positive and negative. Numbers dont move like that without a catastophic event. The typical static of a campaign wouldnt move numbers like that. To pick up 8 would be impossible.

And yet Obama picked up 8 points this week (http://www.gallup.com/poll/109900/Gallup-Daily-Obama-Continues-Lead-49-41.aspx). Huh. A cumulative tally of events is hard to pull off.

[TheMojoPin]

Obama has likely had a slight bump post-convention, but nothing near 8 or 9 points. (http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/) More like 4 or 5 at the very most.

[hammersavage]

OBAMA dropped 4 points in 3 days during the Georgia crisis. There is my proof, see above

Why are we quoting these dumb polls like they give any conclusion as to what till happen? They do nothing.

But if you do want to quote them, Obama now has as big a lead as he's ever had in the polls.

[JerseySean]

And yet Obama picked up 8 points this week (http://www.gallup.com/poll/109900/Gallup-Daily-Obama-Continues-Lead-49-41.aspx). Huh. A cumulative tally of events is hard to pull off.

Yea its called 4 nights of prime time. That is actually underperforming for a conventiuon bounce. I cant seem to find good numbers but if my memory serves correct

Clinton 92- 30 points( overstated because Perot dropped out that week)
Dukakis, 88-20 points
Gore 2000, -13 points.

By these standards Obama underperformed especially as it was predicted by many pundits on Fox, MSNBC, CNN and various liberal blogs that he would be somewhere near 15. The obama convention was a failure.

[Tenbatsuzen]

Second, http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/013/851orcjq.asp


It's funny how that article says that Palin "crushes" everyone who gets in her way.

From today's Washington Post:



For most of her tenure as governor of Alaska, Sarah Palin has enjoyed widespread popularity and a reputation as a maverick who refused to stand by fellow Alaska Republicans facing their own ethics scandals.

But the 44-year-old Palin, who was selected as Sen. John McCain's running mate today, is now the focus of her own state ethics investigation as part of the so-called "Troopergate" scandal, a bizarre controversy involving the firing of a state police chief and his reluctance to fire an Alaska state trooper, Palin's former brother-in-law who has been involved in a bitter custody fight with her younger sister.

Just two weeks ago, Palin revealed an audio recording of an aide pressuring the state's Public Safety Department to fire trooper Mike Wooten, the Anchorage Daily News reported.



Well, now.

[KnoxHarrington]

Yea its called 4 nights of prime time. That is actually underperforming for a conventiuon bounce. I cant seem to find good numbers but if my memory serves correct

Clinton 92- 30 points( overstated because Perot dropped out that week)
Dukakis, 88-20 points
Gore 2000, -13 points.

By these standards Obama underperformed especially as it was predicted by many pundits on Fox, MSNBC, CNN and various liberal blogs that he would be somewhere near 15. The obama convention was a failure.

Even Obama's campaign manager said not to expect as much of a bounce because the voting public is so polarized now.

So please find me a link to where it was predicted that he'd get a 15% bounce.

My suspicion is your link is "I heard it on Hannity."

[JerseySean]

It's funny how that article says that Palin "crushes" everyone who gets in her way.

From today's Washington Post:



Well, now.

If obama wants to talk about Palin having a no-tolerance policy in State Government for abuse and violence against spouces, Im sure Palin would love to talk about that. A trooper was married to her sister, beat her and then was able to continue as a trooper. The sister didnt report the assault to the police because she didnt want the public embarrasment for her sister.

[JerseySean]

Even Obama's campaign manager said not to expect as much of a bounce because the voting public is so polarized now.

So please find me a link to where it was predicted that he'd get a 15% bounce.

My suspicion is your link is "I heard it on Hannity."

It is so funny how people always fall back on, "Whered you get that, Hannity?". Actually no dick I was watching MSNBC and i think even Rachel Maddow said it on Thursday. Ive stated before, I dont watch or listen to Hannity.

[epo]

Yea its called 4 nights of prime time. That is actually underperforming for a conventiuon bounce. I cant seem to find good numbers but if my memory serves correct

Clinton 92- 30 points( overstated because Perot dropped out that week)
Dukakis, 88-20 points
Gore 2000, -13 points.

By these standards Obama underperformed especially as it was predicted by many pundits on Fox, MSNBC, CNN and various liberal blogs that he would be somewhere near 15. The obama convention was a failure.

If by "liberal blogs or media" you mean John McCain's campaign and surrogates, then yes you are absolutely correct. Link here. (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/08/22/mccain-camp-obama-will-ge_n_120678.html?page=3)

Also, you will see in the note from Sarah Simmons from the McCain that Bill Clinton got a historic 16 point bump after his convention. I would like to point out that is slightly less than 30.

[Tenbatsuzen]

If obama wants to talk about Palin having a no-tolerance policy in State Government for abuse and violence against spouces, Im sure Palin would love to talk about that. A trooper was married to her sister, beat her and then was able to continue as a trooper. The sister didnt report the assault to the police because she didnt want the public embarrasment for her sister.

Mmm. I haven't seen anything about the Trooper having spousal abuse issues. And if it was true, it would be a pretty open and shut case for the divorce and custody, wouldn't it?

[Tenbatsuzen]

If obama wants to talk about Palin having a no-tolerance policy in State Government for abuse and violence against spouces, Im sure Palin would love to talk about that. A trooper was married to her sister, beat her and then was able to continue as a trooper. The sister didnt report the assault to the police because she didnt want the public embarrasment for her sister.

OK, I re-read this. Trooper is an asshole. But it also happened before Palin was governor.

[A.J.]

you know who ELSE was from Alaska?

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g168/grahamofborg/Star%20Trek/riker.jpg

What's a good abortion discussion without Lieutenant Riker? jack of all trades.

That's COMMANDER Riker. LIEUTENANT Riker was his duplicate who later called himself "Tom" and joined the Maquis.

Thanks very much Matty for making me show my Trek nerdiness YET AGAIN.

[epo]

If obama wants to talk about Palin having a no-tolerance policy in State Government for abuse and violence against spouces, Im sure Palin would love to talk about that. A trooper was married to her sister, beat her and then was able to continue as a trooper. The sister didnt report the assault to the police because she didnt want the public embarrasment for her sister.

And thats a great personal story and that guy sounds like an asshole. But here is the problem with that as a government official:

No crime was reported.

[A.J.]

That would look like an old man making out with his daughter.

You mean like when McCain kisses his wife Cindy?

[JerseySean]

OK, I re-read this. Trooper is an asshole. But it also happened before Palin was governor.

Correct but apparently there have been more incidents since. It will come out if the investigation noise ratchets up. Please see here: http://media.adn.com/smedia/2008/07/25/20/Complaint_memo_against_Wooten_4-1-05.source.prod_affiliate.7.pdf

[Tenbatsuzen]

So apparently, the trooper is an asshole, got reprimanded for it, but that wasn't good enough for the Palins, who had a vendetta against him. Which is their right; but it's also the sister's damn fault for not reporting it. Embarassment for her sister? For WHAT? How the hell is spousal abuse for a victim EMBARASSING?

[KnoxHarrington]

It is so funny how people always fall back on, "Whered you get that, Hannity?". Actually no dick I was watching MSNBC and i think even Rachel Maddow said it on Thursday. Ive stated before, I dont watch or listen to Hannity.

Then you can easily find me a link on MSNBC to it. Try typing "Obama 15% bounce" in their search engine.

OK, I did the work for you, and found this:

Yesterday, the McCain campaign released a memo saying that Obama should receive a 15-point (!!!) bounce from his convention. But here’s a big caveat: We haven’t had a back-to-back convention schedule in a very long time, so it may make historical comparisons moot. But let's crunch some numbers from the Gallup chart McCain's campaign sent around. The average Dem convention bounce since '64 is 6.2 points. The average GOP convention bounce since '64 is 5.3 points. The average FIRST convention bounce: 6.3 points. The average SECOND convention bounce is: 5.2 points. With just three instances since '64 of open-seat presidential elections, it's useless to attempt an average if you did this average based on Olympic score (tossing the high and the low), the average convention bounce would be 5.6 points, which feels about the right bar for expectations. The Clinton example the McCain folks are using -- 16 points after the '92 Dem convention! -- is really a reach considering that Ross Perot (who was the front-runner the week before the Dem convo) dropped out the week of the Dem convo. So toss the Clinton bounce out any analysis window.

which was discounting talk that was coming out of the McCain camp, probably a dirty political trick to minimize the actual bounce he got.

It's from here: http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/category/1015.aspx

And I apologize for assuming you listen to Hannity. I would think most people who do are better informed than you are.

[A.J.]

One thing about a debate - it's not a speech. It's about thinking on your feet. Biden is well versed. He's been a senator for god knows how long. Her experience is being a mom, a mayor, part of the PTA, and governor for a year and a half.

He will DESTROY her.

But I think that can work against Obama. He promised change and who did he pick for a Veep? A man that's been in the Senate since 1973.

[Tenbatsuzen]

That's COMMANDER Riker. LIEUTENANT Riker was his duplicate who later called himself "Tom" and joined the Maquis.

Thanks very much Matty for making me show my Trek nerdiness YET AGAIN.

I caught the error, but I let it slide, because I knew you were gone for the day. Muhahahahahahah.

Loved Tom Riker's pull-away beard on DS9.

[JerseySean]

And thats a great personal story and that guy sounds like an asshole. But here is the problem with that as a government official:

No crime was reported.

Agreed, but click the link on my above post. But it wont be about that. That issue will be framed as such.

Obama or surrogates or media make a lot of noise about investigation.

Palin explains the story, domestic violence, etc.

Alaska legislator who doesnt like her starts talking.

McCain camp explains why Palin is a maverick, has cleaned up state govt.

End of the day, Palin is a smart strong woman who stood up to domestic violence and goold ol boys network and was a maverick, blah blah. Obama will not touch this one with a ten foot pole

[A.J.]

Okay, aging Presidential candidate makes somewhat inexperienced woman his VP to pick up key demos, then he dies in office, and his V.P. takes over the country. Does this sound to anyone like it could be an 80s Touchstone comedy starring Goldie Hawn?

That, or a failed Geena Davis drama on ABC.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/5d/Commander_logo.jpg

EDIT: Matty beat me to it pages ago.

Christ, this thread is long!

[KnoxHarrington]

Agreed, but click the link on my above post. But it wont be about that. That issue will be framed as such.

Obama or surrogates or media make a lot of noise about investigation.

Palin explains the story, domestic violence, etc.

Alaska legislator who doesnt like her starts talking.

McCain camp explains why Palin is a maverick, has cleaned up state govt.

End of the day, Palin is a smart strong woman who stood up to domestic violence and goold ol boys network and was a maverick, blah blah. Obama will not touch this one with a ten foot pole

Umm, Palin did not "clean up state gov't." The main example of her fighting "corruption" is killing the "bridge to nowhere", but it's clear that she fought for it until it was clear that federal funding was going to be killed anyway by other people, then, hey, she started talking about what a bad idea it was and how it should be killed.

And here is a link to what I just said:

http://medianation.blogspot.com/2008/08/palin-favored-bridge-to-nowhere.html

[Tenbatsuzen]

Agreed, but click the link on my above post. But it wont be about that. That issue will be framed as such.

Obama or surrogates or media make a lot of noise about investigation.

Palin explains the story, domestic violence, etc.

Alaska legislator who doesnt like her starts talking.

McCain camp explains why Palin is a maverick, has cleaned up state govt.

End of the day, Palin is a smart strong woman who stood up to domestic violence and goold ol boys network and was a maverick, blah blah. Obama will not touch this one with a ten foot pole

Standing up to Domestic Violence is GETTING IT REPORTED AND GETTING THE GUY THROWN IN JAIL.

It's a lot easier to fire a cop after he's committed a crime than using smoke and mirrors and political pressure.

Sorry, this isn't washing. It sounds like a bad divorce with someone who's got some power.

[JerseySean]

Then you can easily find me a link on MSNBC to it. Try typing "Obama 15% bounce" in their search engine.

OK, I did the work for you, and found this:



which was discounting talk that was coming out of the McCain camp, probably a dirty political trick to minimize the actual bounce he got.

It's from here: http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/category/1015.aspx

And I apologize for assuming you listen to Hannity. I would think most people who do are better informed than you are.

Obama got 8. Now I will be curious to see Monday morning's Gallup numbers whicvh include the Palin rollout. Im gonna say 46-44 Obama by monday morning.

[Friday]

well... my lifetime republican father has just told me that he is definitely Not going to vote for McCain.

if i wasn't sold before... that seals it up.

and i think i just saw a pig in the sky! wheeeeee

[A.J.]

i really do think George W. changed the way America takes its vice president. I remember when he chose Cheney, it changed everything. As hated as Cheney is today, when he was chosen, everyone was like "Cheney is a smart man and is a great choice"

Before the W. era, VP picks didn't mean much. But i think in the 21st century and beyond..its very very important.

And Biden was clearly chosen because he has a lot of foreign policy experience and hes an old white guy (stuff Obama lacked). It makes sense. Makes it a stronger ticket..i think anyone can agree with that. This broad, I don't know if she makes McCain stronger...I don't see it as of right now

Not really. Originally the Vice President was the guy who came in second. And running mates were often selected for political reasons and/or to appeal to a particular region of the nation.

I think the modern "importance" of selecting a VP came in 1960 with Kennedy needing LBJ to deliver southern states.

[Tenbatsuzen]

and i think i just saw a pig in the sky! wheeeeee

http://tvmedia.ign.com/tv/image/article/730/730566/thesimpsons-homerpalooza_1157493000.jpg

"Sorry about that!"

[Tenbatsuzen]

BTW, I just wanted to share, my right nostril had been itching something fierce for the last few days. I just blew my nose and what came out was the equivalent of a sun dried tomato.

[epo]

I wanted a bit of historic context for the historic Clinton 16 point bounce that McCain's people tried to set as a marker for Senator Obama. Here is how the week went:

Thursday, July 9: Senator Gore named as VP
Friday, July 10: Time magazine poll shows public doubts about economy
Saturday, July 11: Ross Perot offends NAACP - refers to audience as "you people"
Monday, July 13: Democratic National Convention opens in NYC
Wednesday, July 15: Pope has tumor removed
Wednesday, July 15: Ed Rollins announces he is leaving the Perot campaign.
Wednesday, July 15: Bill Clinton is nominated by Democratic Party
Thursday, July 16: Ross Perot quits race.

Honestly, look at the totality of events that it took to capture a 16-point bounce in the polls.