All things McCain

[A.J.]

I know what you're saying, but that brings neither wealth nor privilege. He didn't get special treatment at Annapolis (nobody does) and the cushy assignments he got after coming back from Vietnam probably had more to do with being a POW than being an admiral's son. Don't believe me? Look up what an O-9 makes.

Oh, I know what you meant. Believe me -- I work with O-9s every day.

You're right that he had "cushy" assignments because of being a POW. His injuries limited the active duty assignments he could perform and because he couldn't qualify for certain command billets, he was never going to make Admiral himself.

[angrymissy]

Can the hit and runs please stop? I welcome all of you to have a real conversation like the majority here are.

I have real convos all the time in both of these threads, I'm entitled to a LOLpic dammit!

[epo]

I heard the clip of McCain on Leno last night. Did you know that he was a POW? You wouldn't know that, because he RARELY mentions it!

[Ritalin]

Out of respect to NY Dragon, I'd like to say honestly that McCain is in serious danger of completely diminishing and debasing his honorable service by making mention of it at the drop of the hat. It's a trend that highlights the larger problem I have with McCain, namely that he has thrown out most if not all of the Straight Talking goodwill that he built up in the 2000 election.

He's taking advice from the same people who viciously gutted him repeatedly. He's turned his back on so many strong independent positions in the past year that he's hardly recognizable.

He's lost control of his own narrative. He is - and I'm not making a joke here - turning into "noun, verb, POW", and it's sad and desperate.

In my opinion.

[K.C.]

McCain has supposedly made his choice:

One of the following:

Joe Lieberman -
Pros: Independent Democrat that would allow McCain to say he's the ultimate unifier with a split ticket
Cons: Horrible, awful, ridiculosuly bad campaigner. Also, this may be the oldest ticket ever. Also, no electoral advantage, as Lieberman can't flip Connecticut. Also, Lieberman is one of the most hawkish people on the war, next to GWB...would really entrench McCain with Bush on Iraq. Also, may not be appealing to the Christian base since he's a) a jew ( I remember the chain e-mail about the United States of Israel from 2000), and b) more liberal socially those people like.


Tim Pawlenty -
Pros: Could deliver Minnesota, and probably help Norm Coleman knock off Al Franken to retain his Senate seat for the Republicans.
Cons: A completely manilla choice. Presided over the great Minnesota bridge collapse. No name recognition outside Minnesota.

Tom Ridge
Pros: Solidifies McCain's flank on terrorism (maybe).
Cons: Rendell trumps Ridge in Pennsylvania politics...no way he could deliver the state. Also, too liberal socially.

Mitt Romney
Pros: Good spokesman for Republican style economics. Brings name recognition, and a little economic credibility to McCain's ticket.
Cons: Complete retard on foreign policy. Really not symbolic of what McCain wants to be putting forth if he's trying to win the working class in Michigan and Ohio. Also, doesn't have a ton of name recognition in Michigan anymore.

My guess is it's Romney, but none of these are great choices.

Norah O'Donnell on MSNBC said she heard it's down to Pawlenty and Ridge, so who knows.

[HBox]

John McCain's health care adviser: (http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/bus/stories/DN-Uninsured_27bus.ART.State.Edition2.4dce428.html)

But the numbers are misleading, said John Goodman, president of the National Center for Policy Analysis, a right-leaning Dallas-based think tank. Mr. Goodman, who helped craft Sen. John McCain's health care policy, said anyone with access to an emergency room effectively has insurance, albeit the government acts as the payer of last resort. (Hospital emergency rooms by law cannot turn away a patient in need of immediate care.)
"So I have a solution. And it will cost not one thin dime," Mr. Goodman said. "The next president of the United States should sign an executive order requiring the Census Bureau to cease and desist from describing any American – even illegal aliens – as uninsured. Instead, the bureau should categorize people according to the likely source of payment should they need care.
"So, there you have it. Voila! Problem solved."


I am officially heartbroken by what has happened to John McCain.


Obama should have this shit in ads yesterday.

[AKA]

I will watch as much of the GOP as I did with the DNC this week, but I can honestly say that the only person I'm looking forward into seeing is Huckabee.

Monday, Sept. 1

U.S. Sen. Joseph Lieberman (Conn.)
Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger (Calif.)
Vice President Richard B. Cheney
First Lady Laura Bush
President George W. Bush

Tuesday, Sept. 2

Former New York City Mayor Rudolph W. Giuliani
Former Gov. Mike Huckabee (Ark.)
Former Gov. Tom Ridge (Pa.)
Gov. Sarah Palin (Alaska)
Gov. Jon Huntsman (Utah)
Rosario Marin, California Secretary of the State and Consumer Services Agency and former Treasurer of the United States
Former U.S. Sen. Fred Thompson (Tenn.)
Gov. Linda Lingle (Hawaii)
Former Lt. Gov. Michael Steele (Md.)

Wednesday, Sept. 3

U.S. Sen. Norm Coleman (Minn.)
Meg Whitman, National Co-Chair for McCain 2008 and former President and CEO of eBay
Carly Fiorina, Victory ‘08 Chairman for the Republican National Committee and former Chairman and CEO of Hewlett-Packard Co.
Former Gov. Mitt Romney (Mass.)
Mrs. Cindy McCain
Gov. Bobby Jindal (La.)
Republican Party’s Vice Presidential Nominee

Thursday, Sept. 4

Gov. Tim Pawlenty (Minn.)
Gov. Charlie Crist (Fla.)
U.S. Sen. Sam Brownback (Kan.)
U.S. Sen. Mel Martinez (Fla.)
John McCain

[A.J.]

They're getting Bush and Cheney out of the way real quick aren't they?

[K.C.]

They're getting Bush and Cheney out of the way real quick aren't they?

Wouldn't you?

[A.J.]

I'm surprised they're letting Cheney speak at all.

Wednesday, Sept. 3

U.S. Sen. Norm Coleman (Minn.)
Meg Whitman, National Co-Chair for McCain 2008 and former President and CEO of eBay
Carly Fiorina, Victory ‘08 Chairman for the Republican National Committee and former Chairman and CEO of Hewlett-Packard Co.
Former Gov. Mitt Romney (Mass.)
Mrs. Cindy McCain
Gov. Bobby Jindal (La.)
Republican Party’s Vice Presidential Nominee

Hmmm. Interesting.

[epo]

I'm surprised they're letting Cheney speak at all.

Hmmm. Interesting.

Jindal would be an interesting pick. Either way, he's a guy with a bright political future.

[NewYorkDragons80]

Jindal would be an interesting pick. Either way, he's a guy with a bright political future.
It won't be Jindal. He already said it won't be him, and not in the cute "I have no plans" way.

[Zorro]

I will watch as much of the GOP as I did with the DNC this week, but I can honestly say that the only person I'm looking forward into seeing is Huckabee.

Monday, Sept. 1

U.S. Sen. Joseph Lieberman (Conn.)
Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger (Calif.)
Vice President Richard B. Cheney
First Lady Laura Bush
President George W. Bush

Tuesday, Sept. 2

Former New York City Mayor Rudolph W. Giuliani
Former Gov. Mike Huckabee (Ark.)
Former Gov. Tom Ridge (Pa.)
Gov. Sarah Palin (Alaska)
Gov. Jon Huntsman (Utah)
Rosario Marin, California Secretary of the State and Consumer Services Agency and former Treasurer of the United States
Former U.S. Sen. Fred Thompson (Tenn.)
Gov. Linda Lingle (Hawaii)
Former Lt. Gov. Michael Steele (Md.)

Wednesday, Sept. 3

U.S. Sen. Norm Coleman (Minn.)
Meg Whitman, National Co-Chair for McCain 2008 and former President and CEO of eBay
Carly Fiorina, Victory ‘08 Chairman for the Republican National Committee and former Chairman and CEO of Hewlett-Packard Co.
Former Gov. Mitt Romney (Mass.)
Mrs. Cindy McCain
Gov. Bobby Jindal (La.)
Republican Party’s Vice Presidential Nominee

Thursday, Sept. 4

Gov. Tim Pawlenty (Minn.)
Gov. Charlie Crist (Fla.)
U.S. Sen. Sam Brownback (Kan.)
U.S. Sen. Mel Martinez (Fla.)
John McCain



wee...wee....wee...boring....

[AKA]

wee...wee....wee...boring....

I can't think of one speaker, aside from Huckabee, that is going to be at all fun. Now that all things Reagan are gone, I guess we should be lucky they aren't trotting out the first President Bush to continue the ruse that he was ever a brilliant president - Jimmy Carter's legacy laughs at him.

Won't matter, imo - Hurricane Gustov is going to dominate the news cycle soon after this starts, which (if the media really did their jobs) could damage the GOP, but as much as it is spub that Obama is the media darling, McCain has really had a much easier pass since their primaries.

[Zorro]

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/08/28/mccain-notify-vp/

Apparently been made...will be "leaked" later. I can't imagine that it will generate any heat.

[KnoxHarrington]

I'm starting to see the same stories about the Secret Service spotting taking up positions at one possible candidate's house that you saw about them showing up at Biden's house leaking out.

About who?

Mitt Romney.

Oh, thank you Zombie Jesus.

[angrymissy]

uhhhhh :unsure:

http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1836909,00.html

There's a theme that recurs in your books and your speeches, both about putting country first but also about honor. I wonder if you could define honor for us?
Read it in my books.

I've read your books.
No, I'm not going to define it.

But honor in politics?
I defined it in five books. Read my books.

[Your] campaign today is more disciplined, more traditional, more aggressive. From your point of view, why the change?
I will do as much as we possibly can do to provide as much access to the press as possible.

But beyond the press, sir, just in terms of ...
I think we're running a fine campaign, and this is where we are.

Do you miss the old way of doing it?
I don't know what you're talking about.

Really? Come on, Senator.
I'll provide as much access as possible ...

[Zorro]

uhhhhh :unsure:

http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1836909,00.html

I'm no fan of McCain, but seems like gotcha journalism. Was there ever a time when reporters didn't feel it omportant to be part of the story?

[angrymissy]

It's this that got me:

There's a theme that recurs in your books and your speeches, both about putting country first but also about honor. I wonder if you could define honor for us?
Read it in my books.

[Zorro]

It's this that got me:

There's a theme that recurs in your books and your speeches, both about putting country first but also about honor. I wonder if you could define honor for us?
Read it in my books.

You're right.

I guess I feel like there's no way this guy's going to win...sort of a 2008 Bob Dole, so some of this stuff feels like piling on, but hey that's just me. Maybe I've got a soft spot for the old guy.

[angrymissy]

I think maybe he just needs a nap. Sounds cranky.

[Earlshog]

Won't matter, imo - Hurricane Gustov is going to dominate the news cycle soon after this starts, which (if the media really did their jobs) could damage the GOP, but as much as it is spub that Obama is the media darling, McCain has really had a much easier pass since their primaries.


ha-ha.... Bush will be giving his speech and the split screen will be the anarchy occurring on the streets of New Orleans for the second time in his presidency....

[epo]

I'm no fan of McCain, but seems like gotcha journalism. Was there ever a time when reporters didn't feel it omportant to be part of the story?

It's this that got me:

There's a theme that recurs in your books and your speeches, both about putting country first but also about honor. I wonder if you could define honor for us?
Read it in my books.

I'll agree that this is an example of "gotcha" journalism...but this is becoming a huge problem for his campaign. The media let him go on a number of things in the early stages of the general election due to his great long-term relationship with them. However now they are forced to play a little rough with him to save their own credibility.

So he ignores the question about honor and basically tells them to define honor in politics in his own terms from his books.....this is not just a "fuck you" but it's a challenge. Here is the problem with "challenging" the media: They control the medium.

He will lose this fight.

[K.C.]

My sources tell me the VP is either Jeb Bush, George P. Bush, Jenna Bush, or Barbara Bush (the younger, not the demon lady)

[brettmojo]

My sources tell me the VP is either Jeb Bush, George P. Bush, Jenna Bush, or Barbara Bush (the younger, not the demon lady)
I heard the VP is Viagra.

Doesn't he realize that didn't work for Dole?

[keithy_19]

I heard the VP is Viagra.

Doesn't he realize that didn't work for Dole?

Kind sir, you have no idea if that worked for Mr. Dole.


Oh, you mean to win the presidency....

[A.J.]

I can't think of one speaker, aside from Huckabee, that is going to be at all fun.

Really? Not even Independent Democrat Joe Lieberman? I'm curious to see what he has to say.

[AKA]

Really? Not even Independent Democrat Joe Lieberman? I'm curious to see what he has to say.

I saw him an Orioles game one time and wanted to kick him.

I'm much more interested hearing Fez doing an impression of him of what he has to say.

http://www.zachary.com/s/static/droopy.jpeg

[A.J.]

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/08/28/mccain-notify-vp/

Apparently been made...will be "leaked" later. I can't imagine that it will generate any heat.

Palin wouldn't be a bad pick. Neither would Lisa Murkowski.

[BinaryBimbo]

Sarah Palin may be the pick
Alaska Gov.

Watching MSNBC and someone needs a new phone number this morning:ohmy:

[Dirtybird12]

Mr. Old and Out of Touch has chosen Gov. Sarah Palin as his running mate.

And of course we know WHY he chose a woman.

[DolaMight]

Mr. Old and Out of Touch has chosen Gov. Sarah Palin as his running mate.

And of course we know WHY he chose a woman.

It's clear in choosing Palin that strategists are calculating the majority of the electorate will be be voting on image over policies and character.

McCain thinks he can pick up a good portion of the disgruntled Hillary vote.

McCain needed somebody who is genuinely capable of handling the responsibility of having the finger on the button. When you vote mccain you also vote for Palin to be prez, cuz there's a 40% chance he will die in office, 60% chance he will die by the end of a 2nd term. I don't care how old his mom is, he's 72 and he's already past the average male lifespan. I love McCain but I wish he got it in 00. He's clearly not as sharp as he used to be. His oldness is scary.

She's a woman and she's gorgeous, she might be able to get him elected on that by siphoning away the simple minded voting on image electorate.

But can she take Biden in the VP debate? I just hope she doesn't embarrass herself.

Can she lead the country? She a first term gub from a state that is basically a foreign country. It's practically canada. Gotta touch a state... as the ol saying goes.

All that said it's be another tight 50/50 nov 2nd.

[epo]

It's clear in choosing Palin that strategists are calculating the majority of the electorate will be be voting on image over policies and character.

McCain thinks he can pick up a good portion of the disgruntled Hillary vote.

McCain needed somebody who is genuinely capable of handling the responsibility of having the finger on the button. When you vote mccain you also vote for Palin to be prez, cuz there's a 40% chance he will die in office, 60% chance he will die by the end of a 2nd term. I don't care how old his mom is, he's 72 and he's already past the average male lifespan. I love McCain but I wish he got it in 00. He's clearly not as sharp as he used to be. His oldness is scary.

She's a woman and she's gorgeous, she might be able to get him elected on that by siphoning away the simple minded voting on image electorate.

But can she take Biden in the VP debate? I just hope she doesn't embarrass herself.

Can she lead the country? She a first term gub from a state that is basically a foreign country. It's practically canada. Gotta touch a state... as the ol saying goes.

All that said it's be another tight 50/50 nov 2nd.

She is a very nice pick for style, but the first term governor thing hurts the "inexperience" talking point for McCain. I think it's his best argument and this pick erases that.

And Biden will mop the floor with her.

[DolaMight]

She is a very nice pick for style, but the first term governor thing hurts the "inexperience" talking point for McCain. I think it's his best argument and this pick erases that.

And Biden will mop the floor with her.

McCain still doesn't have an issue with inexperience, he's still gonn be the boss. Unless he dies. Whereas Obama/Biden the inexperience is in charge.

And Obama killed his "Washington insider" talking point by picking Biden. Now they're even.

Has anyone ever heard Palin talk? Other than her eskimo eloctorate? She must be able to throw down to a degree if they chose her.

[K.C.]

And of course we know WHY he chose a woman.

Is this chick a real social conservative? Because if that's the case, I don't think this 'we'll pick up Hillary supporters' thing is going to fly.

If he wanted Hillary supporters, a Christine Todd Whitman choice would have bee appropriate.

[epo]

Is this chick a real social conservative? Because if that's the case, I don't think this 'we'll pick up Hillary supporters' thing is going to fly.

If he wanted Hillary supporters, a Christine Todd Whitman choice would have bee appropriate.

Or Kay Bailey Hutchinson. Her murky views on abortion might have flown with that crowd.

[A.J.]

Is this chick a real social conservative?

Pro-life.

Sarah Heath Palin (born February 11, 1964)

She was born the day The Beatles played their first U.S. concert at the old Washington Coliseum in DC. Weird!

[angrymissy]

Is this chick a real social conservative? Because if that's the case, I don't think this 'we'll pick up Hillary supporters' thing is going to fly.

If he wanted Hillary supporters, a Christine Todd Whitman choice would have bee appropriate.

She's anti-choice. anti-gay marriage (but waffles a bit, it seems). pro death penalty.

[OleBullNuts]

She defeated the incumbent governor in the primary, and a former 2-term democrat governor in the general election. She made her bones fighting corruption in the Alaska GOP and has approval ratings hovering around 90%. As a Republican I'm definitely energized by this choice, I won't have to get drunk now to pull the lever for McCain.

[sailor]

She's anti-choice. anti-gay marriage (but waffles a bit, it seems). pro death penalty.

does either side gain anything from calling the other pro-death or anti-choice? can't we be above that?

[Freakshow]

does either side gain anything from calling the other pro-death or anti-choice? can't we be above that?

edit: i eff'd up.

[sailor]

she's also actually pro-choice. so there's that...

pro-death.

fuck hypocrisy.

[Freakshow]

sorry, I misread. She is pro-life...

[Jujubees2]

So McCain picks a first-term governor for his VP and he attacks Obama for not having the experience to be president?

[A.J.]

So McCain picks a first-term governor for his VP and he attacks Obama for not having the experience to be president?

Yeah epo mentioned that (http://www.ronfez.net/forums/showpost.php?p=1841870&postcount=533).

[Jujubees2]

So McCain picks a first-term governor for his VP and he attacks Obama for not having the experience to be president?

Yeah epo mentioned that (http://www.ronfez.net/forums/showpost.php?p=1841870&postcount=533).

Sorry.

[sailor]

sorry, I misread. She is pro-life...

damn you, sir.

[Freakshow]

McCain still doesn't have an issue with inexperience, he's still gonn be the boss. Unless he dies. Whereas Obama/Biden the inexperience is in charge.

And Obama killed his "Washington insider" talking point by picking Biden. Now they're even.


And this is the appropriate response to that comment.

[Tall_James]

I love this pick for the sheer mayhem it will bring into the Democratic Party attack mode. How will they go after her without coming across as anti-female and further alienating the on-the-fence Hillary supporters? How will the NOW (a notoriously Dem organization) approach this?

I still haven't decided who I'm voting for yet but love the spectacle. And by spectacle I mean the WWE-style campaigns that are soon to come.

It'll make things really interesting.

:popcorn:

[CruelCircus]

I can't think of one speaker, aside from Huckabee, that is going to be at all fun. Now that all things Reagan are gone, I guess we should be lucky they aren't trotting out the first President Bush to continue the ruse that he was ever a brilliant president - Jimmy Carter's legacy laughs at him.


Michael Steele gave a great speech four years ago which, for whatever reason, did not get nearly the pub that Obama's did. Look for him to do it again. Carly Fiorina is interesting and I'd imagine her speech will have a couple of good sound bites to it. Unfortunately, Joe Lieberman is no Zell Miller, so the token Dem slot probably won't be nearly as much fun as it was last time.

[JerseySean]

Yeah epo mentioned that (http://www.ronfez.net/forums/showpost.php?p=1841870&postcount=533).

Right, key word, President. Not Vice President. Plus Palin has executive experience of which Obama has none.

[Dude!]

She's anti-choice. anti-gay marriage (but waffles a bit, it seems). pro death penalty.

anti-choice of what?

you mean anti-abortion, so just say it that way

i am ambivalent on abortion
palin had a downs syndrome fetus and opted not to abort it
she will win huge points from the christians on that and shore up the 'base'

she was also picked to appeal to women
what is wrong with that

she wants to drill at anwar and knows alot about energy
that is important this year

she ran on anti-corruption in Alaska and is considered a reformer
she reinforces the maverick image

i want to know more about her and see how she does on the national stage

but as of now i have just moved from undecided
to mccain-palin

[K.C.]

anti-gay marriage (but waffles a bit, it seems)

Well...she won't be waffling anymore.



But that's the point. It's like he picked Elisabeth Hasslebeck. Once those Hillary broads hear the words coming out Palin's mouth, any that haven't followed to Obama, will jump in.

[Earlshog]

Radio Physic Radio Physic O & A get into deep doo doo for waking fun of her kid with down syndrome

[Freakshow]

Michael Steele gave a great speech four years ago which, for whatever reason, did not get nearly the pub that Obama's did. Look for him to do it again. Carly Fiorina is interesting and I'd imagine her speech will have a couple of good sound bites to it. Unfortunately, Joe Lieberman is no Zell Miller, so the token Dem slot probably won't be nearly as much fun as it was last time.

I voted for Michael Steele last year. It got real ugly here in Maryland because he put a real scare in the machine.

[NewYorkDragons80]

First off, I think I've earned the right to say I told you so, since I called this months ago.
She's anti-choice. anti-gay marriage (but waffles a bit, it seems). pro death penalty.
Correction: anti-abortion. She brings a lot of credibility to the issue, since she kept her child knowing he would be born with Down's Syndrome.
Against gay marriage, but supports all the benefits of civil unions and signed them into law in AK

What the media has yet to report (and I'll grant them that they've only had a few hours so far) is how much of a reformer Palin has been in Alaska. She chased out the Murkowskites and their cronies, slashed spending, and has maintained an 80% approval rating. She also has more leadership experience than Obama. I acknowledge the shrewdness of picking a conservative woman, but there's an incorruptability to her.

The McCain ticket is about more than just a token woman, she's achieved more against bigger odds than Hilary has.
McCain and Palin both have children serving in the military
McCain and Palin both have practiced legitimate alternatives to abortion
McCain and Palin both are symbols of change.

[NewYorkDragons80]

And Biden will mop the floor with her.
Based on what?

By the way, Palin is also brings economic and energy credentials to the table. She managed to pass the natural gas pipeline (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601082&sid=acNe2vW46POk&refer=canada)that most observers thought was impossible. Almost forgot about that. Silly me. Oh and I forgot to menton that Republican party elites weren't handing her symbolic positions to prep her for higher office, she earned her accomplishments.

This is more than just a token woman candidate.

[JerseySean]

It's clear in choosing Palin that strategists are calculating the majority of the electorate will be be voting on image over policies and character.

McCain thinks he can pick up a good portion of the disgruntled Hillary vote.

McCain needed somebody who is genuinely capable of handling the responsibility of having the finger on the button. When you vote mccain you also vote for Palin to be prez, cuz there's a 40% chance he will die in office, 60% chance he will die by the end of a 2nd term. I don't care how old his mom is, he's 72 and he's already past the average male lifespan. I love McCain but I wish he got it in 00. He's clearly not as sharp as he used to be. His oldness is scary.

She's a woman and she's gorgeous, she might be able to get him elected on that by siphoning away the simple minded voting on image electorate.

But can she take Biden in the VP debate? I just hope she doesn't embarrass herself.

Can she lead the country? She a first term gub from a state that is basically a foreign country. It's practically canada. Gotta touch a state... as the ol saying goes.

All that said it's be another tight 50/50 nov 2nd.

Siphoning the simple minded electorate, how about BARACK OBAMA. There is nothing more simple minded than an Obama crowd screaming yes we can. Ask them how and youll hear silence. She has beaten more talented politicians than Biden.

[drjoek]

All right some one had to say it.

Id hit it.
Shes got kinds a Tina Fey vibe thats working for me in a big way
http://livingalaska.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/sarah_palin2.jpg
http://wonkette.com/assets/resources/2006/12/Miss%20Wasilla%201984.jpg
Plus she'll fish with ya Im in
http://www.alaskaseafood.org/industry/enews/092607govpalinfish.jpg

[JerseySean]

She's anti-choice. anti-gay marriage (but waffles a bit, it seems). pro death penalty.

Yes, God forbid she didnt abort a Down's syndrome child. She also instituted recognizing gay rights for civil unions which she put in place by executive order because the legislature wouldnt pass it. Stop the bogus rhetoric, anti-choice is ridiculous

[NewYorkDragons80]

She is a very nice pick for style, but the first term governor thing hurts the "inexperience" talking point for McCain. I think it's his best argument and this pick erases that.
Responsibilities of the Vice President:
1) To cast a vote in the event of a Senate deadlock
2) To preside over and certify the official vote count of the U.S. Electoral College.

[A.J.]

How will the NOW (a notoriously Dem organization) approach this?

The same way the NAACP attacks black Republicans: they're sellouts and it's a token pick.

[Freakshow]

The same way the NAACP attacks black Republicans: they're sellouts and it's a token pick.

The NOW has been the same since Ike Turner passed.

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[NewYorkDragons80]

Just to clarify for everyone, it's pronounced "Pay-lin"

[angrymissy]

Yes, God forbid she didnt abort a Down's syndrome child. She also instituted recognizing gay rights for civil unions which she put in place by executive order because the legislature wouldnt pass it. Stop the bogus rhetoric, anti-choice is ridiculous

Bogus rhetoric? Anti-choice is ridiculous? Give me a fucking break. That happens to be a BIG issue in who I vote for.

She is hardcore pro-life, a member of "Feminists for Life" for christsakes.

She is against abortion. I'm not saying her child personally - she is against it POLITICALLY.

[A.J.]

Responsibilities of the Vice President:
1) To cast a vote in the event of a Senate deadlock
2) To preside over and certify the official vote count of the U.S. Electoral College.

3) Go to funerals of foreign heads of state.

[sailor]

Just to clarify for everyone, it's pronounced "Pay-lin"

apparently it's PALE-in (http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Vote2008/story?id=5684098&page=1)

[KnoxHarrington]

Responsibilities of the Vice President:
1) To cast a vote in the event of a Senate deadlock
2) To preside over and certify the official vote count of the U.S. Electoral College.


Well, that kind of changes when the prospective President is in his 70s with a history of cancer.

[sailor]

3) Go to funerals of lesser foreign heads of state.

fixed

[JerseySean]

Bogus rhetoric? Anti-choice is ridiculous? Give me a fucking break. That happens to be a BIG issue in who I vote for.

She is hardcore pro-life, a member of "Feminists for Life" for christsakes.

She is against abortion. I'm not saying her child personally - she is against it POLITICALLY.

Yea stop saying anti-choice just say pro life. I cant understand that, so our economy is in a tough problem, the Soviets are preparing for a comeback tour, gas is 3.50 a gallon, but hey, at least ill be able to go to the clinic.

[Rockvillejoe]

palin

brilliant choice. she's a female, hot, feisty, and capable....and:

she was a state champion basketball point guard-she is a minority, she has executive experience.

what can they say? she has no real experience? like obama?

basketball player? like obama?

minority? like obama?

look for some hillary supporters support. it takes all the steam out of obama and his hypnotic, feel good, charade.

who ever thought there would be a vice president you could pleasure yourself to?, (okay, since dan quayle) .

i said this election was over last march. that prediction is even stronger now.

thaaaaaaaank hooooooooooyooooooooo

btw, how's the radio program going? i'm waiting for the merger?

[angrymissy]

Yea stop saying anti-choice just say pro life. I cant understand that, so our economy is in a tough problem, the Soviets are preparing for a comeback tour, gas is 3.50 a gallon, but hey, at least ill be able to go to the clinic.

It's anti-choice to me, sorry. Pro-"life" indicates there is a "life" somehow being "saved". That, my friend, is rhetoric up the ass. Might seem insignificant to you, but you're a male, correct? Sorry, as a woman, it's a GIGANTIC issue to me in many ways - and I will never support someone who is against abortion rights, as I feel it is an indicator of their deeper feelings towards women.

[drjoek]

Wait the guy from Monty Python is McCains running mate?
http://www.spotlightcd.com/hallfame/portraits/michael_palin.jpg
I thought you had to be from the US?











Oh

Nevermind

[Friday]

It's anti-choice to me, sorry. Pro-"life" indicates there is a "life" somehow being "saved". That, my friend, is rhetoric up the ass. Might seem insignificant to you, but you're a male, correct? Sorry, as a woman, it's a GIGANTIC issue to me in many ways - and I will never support someone who is against abortion rights, as I feel it is an indicator of their deeper feelings towards women.

agreed x 100 billion.

[KnoxHarrington]

agreed x 100 billion.

If this is a ploy to get female voters, it's insulting. Does McCain really think he'll fool anyone?

I think his campaign has bought into the PUMA nonsense, and believes there is a massive base of former Clinton supporters ready to jump. He is going to be quite disappointed.

[Freakshow]

It's anti-choice to me, sorry. Pro-"life" indicates there is a "life" somehow being "saved". That, my friend, is rhetoric up the ass. Might seem insignificant to you, but you're a male, correct? Sorry, as a woman, it's a GIGANTIC issue to me in many ways - and I will never support someone who is against abortion rights, as I feel it is an indicator of their deeper feelings towards women.

but, but, but. She IS a woman.


http://www.epix.de/images/scanners4.jpg

[JerseySean]

It's anti-choice to me, sorry. Pro-"life" indicates there is a "life" somehow being "saved". That, my friend, is rhetoric up the ass. Might seem insignificant to you, but you're a male, correct? Sorry, as a woman, it's a GIGANTIC issue to me in many ways - and I will never support someone who is against abortion rights, as I feel it is an indicator of their deeper feelings towards women.

See Missy, I am pro choice. But you think Sarah Palin hates women?

[angrymissy]

but, but, but. She IS a woman.


http://www.epix.de/images/scanners4.jpg

Exactly. To me - she is a woman who does not care about the rights of other women.

She doesn't personally believe in abortion? Fine and dandy. She wants to push that belief on other women? Not so much.

[angrymissy]

See Missy, I am pro choice. But you think Sarah Palin hates women?

Hates women? No. Has an antiquated view on women's rights? Yep.

I do not believe being anti-abortion = hating women. I believe someone who is anti-abortion and wishes to pass legislation on it (I could care less what someone's personal beliefs are) does not have the right attitude towards womens rights, IMO, for me to support them for political office.

[DolaMight]

It's anti-choice to me, sorry. Pro-"life" indicates there is a "life" somehow being "saved". That, my friend, is rhetoric up the ass. Might seem insignificant to you, but you're a male, correct? Sorry, as a woman, it's a GIGANTIC issue to me in many ways - and I will never support someone who is against abortion rights, as I feel it is an indicator of their deeper feelings towards women.

Why don't you both compromise and call her pro-fetus

[JerseySean]

Exactly. To me - she is a woman who does not care about the rights of other women.

She doesn't personally believe in abortion? Fine and dandy. She wants to push that belief on other women? Not so much.

She is a self described feminist. Umm...How has any politician pushed that on anyone ever? Roe v Wade came down in 73 and it has not been outlawed since. It is a bogus boogeyman issue and I dont understand how one could say Palin doesnt care about rights of women. She is the ultimare feminist.

[JerseyRich]

Hates women? No. Has an antiquated view on women's rights? Yep.

I do not believe being anti-abortion = hating women. I believe someone who is anti-abortion and wishes to pass legislation on it (I could care less what someone's personal beliefs are) does not have the right attitude towards womens rights, IMO, for me to support them for political office.

It's a religious view that manages to find it's way into her political views.

Ain't this country great?!

[JerseySean]

Hates women? No. Has an antiquated view on women's rights? Yep.

I do not believe being anti-abortion = hating women. I believe someone who is anti-abortion and wishes to pass legislation on it (I could care less what someone's personal beliefs are) does not have the right attitude towards womens rights, IMO, for me to support them for political office.

Who defines women's rights, you and NARAL?

[DolaMight]

Exactly. To me - she is a woman who does not care about the rights of other women.

She doesn't personally believe in abortion? Fine and dandy. She wants to push that belief on other women? Not so much.

Angrymissy why do you hate women so much? Why are you so against the republican party? It's the official party of women.

[angrymissy]

She is a self described feminist. Umm...How has any politician pushed that on anyone ever? Roe v Wade came down in 73 and it has not been outlawed since. It is a bogus boogeyman issue and I dont understand how one could say Palin doesnt care about rights of women. She is the ultimare feminist.

The "ultimate feminist"??? Show me. A Feminist does not punish a woman with Pregnancy.

It is so easy for a man to sit there and say Roe vs. Wade is a moot point. IT IS NOT. The court is tipping and the next President could appoint enough justices to overturn it. McCain wants to do it. Bush just had contraception defined as abortion.

http://www.dakotavoice.com/2008/03/south-dakota-abortion-ban-gaining.html

[angrymissy]

Who defines women's rights, you and NARAL?

Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't realize I was allowed to have a personal opinion on what I believe to be violating the rights of women.

My personal beliefs are what I vote on.

[sailor]

It's anti-choice to me, sorry. Pro-"life" indicates there is a "life" somehow being "saved". That, my friend, is rhetoric up the ass. Might seem insignificant to you, but you're a male, correct? Sorry, as a woman, it's a GIGANTIC issue to me in many ways - and I will never support someone who is against abortion rights, as I feel it is an indicator of their deeper feelings towards women.

but you can look at it from the other side and say you're pro-death and this is an indicator of your deeper feelings toward babies. to me that sounds no more silly than your view-point. and she's a woman who supports the unborn babies' rights to live, doees that make her a self-hating woman in your view?

it all comes down to if you think the fetus is a living person. i do, and i assume you don't. i respect that even though i disagree with you. i only wish for the same in return. too much to ask for?

[epo]

Bogus rhetoric? Anti-choice is ridiculous? Give me a fucking break. That happens to be a BIG issue in who I vote for.

She is hardcore pro-life, a member of "Feminists for Life" for christsakes.

She is against abortion. I'm not saying her child personally - she is against it POLITICALLY.

This is always an interesting an illogical rhetorical debate due to the emotion but I'll try to map it out.

The conservatives have defined themselves as "Pro-Life", while liberals have defined themselves as "Pro-Choice".

Conservatives on this issue have defined their opponents has "Pro-Abortion" or nudge, nudge...babykillers. Liberals never bothered until recently to define their opponents as "Anti-Choice", but it is a valid rhetorical point.

I know conservatives don't like the "Anti-Choice" point, but logically it is completely valid in light of the issue. To argue otherwise is just silly.

[JerseySean]

The "ultimate feminist"??? Show me. A Feminist does not punish a woman with Pregnancy.

It is so easy for a man to sit there and say Roe vs. Wade is a moot point. IT IS NOT. The court is tipping and the next President could appoint enough justices to overturn it. McCain wants to do it.

Who has she punished. The AK legislature is conservative enough to pass an abortion outlaw, she sisnt push for that.

[NewYorkDragons80]

Hates women? No. Has an antiquated view on women's rights? Yep.
What a fool JerseySean is. When will he realize that women's rights doesn't stop at voting and equal pay. Rather, it extends to the right to impede the rights of others. Namely, the unborn. I mean, if you don't agree that women have the right to murder, then go eat a stegosaurus you damn dinosaur.

[NewYorkDragons80]

This is always an interesting an illogical rhetorical debate due to the emotion but I'll try to map it out.

The conservatives have defined themselves as "Pro-Life", while liberals have defined themselves as "Pro-Choice".

Conservatives on this issue have defined their opponents has "Pro-Abortion" or nudge, nudge...babykillers. Liberals never bothered until recently to define their opponents as "Anti-Choice", but it is a valid rhetorical point.

I know conservatives don't like the "Anti-Choice" point, but logically it is completely valid in light of the issue. To argue otherwise is just silly.
I call you pro-choice, you call me pro-life. To do anything else is to invite senseless debate like the past 2 or so pages have demonstrated

[angrymissy]

but you can look at it from the other side and say you're pro-death and this is an indicator of your deeper feelings toward babies. to me that sounds no more silly than your view-point. and she's a woman who supports the unborn babies' rights to live, doees that make her a self-hating woman in your view?

it all comes down to if you think the fetus is a living person. i do, and i assume you don't. i respect that even though i disagree with you. i only wish for the same in return. too much to ask for?

I have not used the word "hate" once in any of my posts.

Being "Pro-life" "anti-choice", however you wish to call it, does not, in MY opinion, align her beliefs on women's rights with mine. Punishing a woman with a pregnancy she does not want is stone age to me.

[sailor]

This is always an interesting an illogical rhetorical debate due to the emotion but I'll try to map it out.

The conservatives have defined themselves as "Pro-Life", while liberals have defined themselves as "Pro-Choice".

Conservatives on this issue have defined their opponents has "Pro-Abortion" or nudge, nudge...babykillers. Liberals never bothered until recently to define their opponents as "Anti-Choice", but it is a valid rhetorical point.

I know conservatives don't like the "Anti-Choice" point, but logically it is completely valid in light of the issue. To argue otherwise is just silly.

except i heard anti-choice 20 years ago in college. from my recollection, both started around the same time and both are silly.

[angrymissy]

Who has she punished. The AK legislature is conservative enough to pass an abortion outlaw, she sisnt push for that.

She sprearheaded passing parental consent laws, and poorly written "partial birth abortion" restrictions. Putting someone who supports those things in line to the Presidency is not my cup of tea.

[Freakshow]

I have not used the word "hate" once in any of my posts.

Being "Pro-life" "anti-choice", however you wish to call it, does not, in MY opinion, align her beliefs on women's rights with mine. Punishing a woman with a pregnancy she does not want is stone age to me.

were you seriously ever considering voting for mccain, though? seems like a bit of a silly argument to get into unless this was singularly responsible for picking one candidate from the other.

[epo]

I call you pro-choice, you call me pro-life. To do anything else is to invite senseless debate like the past 2 or so pages have demonstrated

The issue is what it is. It is highly emotional and very important to voters on both sides. The only time I use "Anti-Choice" is when a conservative gets too heavy into the "Pro-Abortion" talk.

But I agree....you are pro-life, I'm pro-choice.

[JerseySean]

I have not used the word "hate" once in any of my posts.

Being "Pro-life" "anti-choice", however you wish to call it, does not, in MY opinion, align her beliefs on women's rights with mine. Punishing a woman with a pregnancy she does not want is stone age to me.

Right with yours. But dont proclaim your values to be the values of all women. I think Palin is brilliant. She has given her life to public serv ice, raised a large family and oh yea served as Governor for a very industrious state. When she had a child with a birth defect, she chose to keep it rather than abort. Dont you find that to be admirable? Or do you think she didnt stand up for your values? I dont get it

[angrymissy]

What a fool JerseySean is. When will he realize that women's rights doesn't stop at voting and equal pay. Rather, it extends to the right to impede the rights of others. Namely, the unborn. I mean, if you don't agree that women have the right to murder, then go eat a stegosaurus you damn dinosaur.

Ah, but you consider a fetus or embryo to have the same rights as a born, human woman. I do not.

[sailor]

I have not used the word "hate" once in any of my posts.

Being "Pro-life" "anti-choice", however you wish to call it, does not, in MY opinion, align her beliefs on women's rights with mine. Punishing a woman with a pregnancy she does not want is stone age to me.

it was this line that i found insulting and demeening to myself and others "I feel it is an indicator of their deeper feelings towards women."

and i feel killing living baby, just because you decide it's not what you want, is stone age to me.

and i wrote the self-hating before you clarified you didn't think it was hate. it wasn't worth going back to change it. i got lazy. sue me.

[Caseyelan]

I should make my sig pic:
"what missy said"


cause I seem to always agree with her.

[angrymissy]

Right with yours. But dont proclaim your values to be the values of all women. I think Palin is brilliant. She has given her life to public serv ice, raised a large family and oh yea served as Governor for a very industrious state. When she had a child with a birth defect, she chose to keep it rather than abort. Dont you find that to be admirable? Or do you think she didnt stand up for your values? I dont get it

Read my previous posts - I do not claim to speak for all women - not at all. I always say MY OPINION, or doesn't mesh with MY BELIEFS or PERSONALLY.

All I have said is - she is not someone I could support. I do not speak for everyone, I speak for myself. Abortion rights are an important issue to me.

[JerseySean]

She sprearheaded passing parental consent laws, and poorly written "partial birth abortion" restrictions. Putting someone who supports those things in line to the Presidency is not my cup of tea.

See I think that anyone who is not an idealogue on both sides should be able to say the following,

Abortion is the law of the land. It should not be encouraged but it is legal. However, we should not let people abort a BABY at 7 months into a pregnancy. Moreover, 14 year old girls shouldnt be allowed to get an abortion without consent from their parents. Thats just common sense.

[angrymissy]

it was this line that i found insulting and demeening to myself and others "I feel it is an indicator of their deeper feelings towards women."

and i feel killing living baby, just because you decide it's not what you want, is stone age to me.

and i wrote the self-hating before you clarified you didn't think it was hate. it wasn't worth going back to change it. i got lazy. sue me.

There are a myriad of other reasons why women abort other than "they simply don't want it".

That's fine. That's your opinion. Mine happens to be that punishing women with pregnancy is a lose, lose situation, and stone age, akin to the Scarlet Letter. I see it as viewing a woman as an incubator. I don't think a pregnant 13 or 14 year old should be forced to birth. I don't think someone raped should be forced to birth. I don't think someone with a child with a severe birth defect that will be born dead or die soon after birth should be forced to birth.

[JerseySean]

Ah, but you consider a fetus or embryo to have the same rights as a born, human woman. I do not.

A formed fetus, yes of course. Who wouldnt? It is barbaric to think otherwise.

[Zorro]

I love this pick for the sheer mayhem it will bring into the Democratic Party attack mode. How will they go after her without coming across as anti-female and further alienating the on-the-fence Hillary supporters? How will the NOW (a notoriously Dem organization) approach this?

I still haven't decided who I'm voting for yet but love the spectacle. And by spectacle I mean the WWE-style campaigns that are soon to come.

It'll make things really interesting.

:popcorn:


They'll just portray as a traitor to the cause...the feminist version uncle tom

[Caseyelan]

More importantly.... I am watching her on TV right now... and I am having a serious problem.

IS THAT A BANANA CLIP HOLDING HER UPDO IN PLACE?


ugh.

[KatPw]

She is anti-choice. She is a Creationist. She has other people raise her five children. She was a mayor in a small town, and has only been governor for a year and a half. She is a borderline fundamentalist. She is being investigated by the Feds for illegal firing practices. She is in bed with Big Oil.
I'm going to go vomit now.

[Zorro]

More importantly.... I am watching her on TV right now... and I am having a serious problem.

IS THAT A BANANA CLIP HOLDING HER UPDO IN PLACE?


ugh.

Yeah she's no Jennifer Granholm

[KnoxHarrington]

See I think that anyone who is not an idealogue on both sides should be able to say the following,

Abortion is the law of the land. It should not be encouraged but it is legal. However, we should not let people abort a BABY at 7 months into a pregnancy. Moreover, 14 year old girls shouldnt be allowed to get an abortion without consent from their parents. Thats just common sense.

What if those parents are the parents of the baby?

What if the girl is scared that her parents will disown her -- or worse -- if she tells them?

And please give me an actual case of a D&X. (I will not use the bullshit term "Partial birth abortion") done electively.

[angrymissy]

See I think that anyone who is not an idealogue on both sides should be able to say the following,

Abortion is the law of the land. It should not be encouraged but it is legal. However, we should not let people abort a BABY at 7 months into a pregnancy. Moreover, 14 year old girls shouldnt be allowed to get an abortion without consent from their parents. Thats just common sense.

You can't get an abortion at 7 months unless the mother's life is in danger or there is severe fetal defect. The vast majority of abortions are actually performed before 11 weeks.

Now, as for parental consent. If you want to prevent late term abortions, parental consent will only cause them. I had an abortion when I was 15. I did not tell my parents. I had it early, and safe. Now- if I was faced with telling my parents to obtain one, I can GUARANTEE you that I would have waited. I would have been faced with a later term, riskier procedure. What about the girls with superreligious parents, or ones that will literally kick them out or kick the shit out of them?

[Caseyelan]

Wtf Is A Snowmachine Racer!?

[sailor]

There are a myriad of other reasons why women abort other than "they simply don't want it".

That's fine. That's your opinion. Mine happens to be that punishing women with pregnancy is a lose, lose situation, and stone age, akin to the Scarlet Letter. I see it as viewing a woman as an incubator. I don't think a pregnant 13 or 14 year old should be forced to birth. I don't think someone raped should be forced to birth. I don't think someone with a child with a severe birth defect that will be born dead or die soon after birth should be forced to birth.

and to me it's still murdering a baby. sorry you think this is an indicator of my feelings toward women, because it isn't.

[angrymissy]

More importantly.... I am watching her on TV right now... and I am having a serious problem.

IS THAT A BANANA CLIP HOLDING HER UPDO IN PLACE?

ugh.

Fuck her abortion stance, banana clip = IMPEACHMENT.

[angrymissy]

and to me it's still murdering a baby. sorry you think this is an indicator of my feelings toward women, because it isn't.

You would force a 13 year old raped by her father to birth the child?

[sailor]

You would force a 13 year old raped by her father to birth the child?

the baby did no wrong. so, yes.

[JerseySean]

You can't get an abortion at 7 months unless the mother's life is in danger or there is severe fetal defect. The vast majority of abortions are actually performed before 11 weeks.

Now, as for parental consent. If you want to prevent late term abortions, parental consent will only cause them. I had an abortion when I was 15. I did not tell my parents. I had it early, and safe. Now- if I was faced with telling my parents to obtain one, I can GUARANTEE you that I would have waited. I would have been faced with a later term, riskier procedure. What about the girls with superreligious parents, or ones that will literally kick them out or kick the shit out of them?

Youu cant get an advil at school. Abortions are usually safe, but still carry risks. A 15 year old girl in a panic will not be able to evaluate the risks properly as I have a friend who is having trouble conceiving now because of abortion complications from when she was 16. Stop it, that is just common sense

[Caseyelan]

In case you weren't watching....
She has said the word UNION 14 times.

[epo]

Forget the abortion argument....I'm just disturbed by the "USA, USA, USA" chant during her speech.

I hate jingo-ism.

[angrymissy]

the baby did no wrong. so, yes.

The 13 year old did no wrong either.

Who's life is more important? The potential life, or the already living? That is what it comes down to.

[Caseyelan]

the baby did no wrong. so, yes.

Which baby are you talking about? The fetus or the frigging 13 year old child who's life is now not important enough to protect?

[JerseySean]

Forget the abortion argument....I'm just disturbed by the "USA, USA, USA" chant during her speech.

I hate jingo-ism.

Yes God forbid we show some patriotism.

[KnoxHarrington]

The 13 year old did no wrong either.

Who's life is more important? The potential life, or the already living? That is what it comes down to.


Typical "pro-life": if you're not a fetus or a vegetable, go screw

[angrymissy]

Youu cant get an advil at school. Abortions are usually safe, but still carry risks. A 15 year old girl in a panic will not be able to evaluate the risks properly as I have a friend who is having trouble conceiving now because of abortion complications from when she was 16. Stop it, that is just common sense

Abortion is statistically 10x safer than pregnancy. She would have just as much of a chance to have problems conceiving from a prior pregnancy.

They literally sit you down and read you every single risk twice, then make you sign a paper, then make you sit with a counselor, before you can have the abortion, at least in NYS.

[epo]

Palin: "I wanted to stop business as usual."

Really? What about this:

Palin facing investigation in Alaska (http://thehill.com/campaign-2008/palin-facing-investigation-in-alaska-2008-08-29.html)

Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin (R), Sen. John McCain’s (R-Ariz.) running mate, faces an investigation over her controversial firing of a public safety commissioner.

State lawmakers approved an investigation late last month into whether the governor retaliated against former commissioner Walt Monegan for not firing a state trooper entangled in a divorce and ongoing custody battle with Palin’s sister. The investigation will also examine whether Palin or any of her family members pressured Monegan to fire state trooper Mike Wooten because of the messy divorce.

They've all got holes........

[TheMojoPin]

Very possibly a very smart pick by McCain. Despite her flaws, picking her and timing his announcement when he did is easily the smartest two things he's done this entire election cycle thus far.

[JerseySean]

The 13 year old did no wrong either.

Who's life is more important? The potential life, or the already living? That is what it comes down to.

There are exceptions to that. In parental consent states, the abortion doctors/clinics can take a girl before a judge and pay lawyers to do so, so they can lay out a case before a judge for something like that.

[A.J.]

You would force a 13 year old raped by her father to birth the child?

I love how some of the right to lifers would demand this yet bitch about how they have to pay more in taxes to support the government programs the mother and child would probably need.

[Caseyelan]

I had an abortion when I was 16.
I learned from my mistake.
I haven't thought about that fetus since the day they sucked it out.
It really never ever has bothered me.
Call me a murderer.... I feel nothing.

[epo]

Yes God forbid we show some patriotism.

Patriotism and jingoism are two totally different worlds. Some people don't understand that.

[angrymissy]

Yes God forbid we show some patriotism.

http://memewatch.com/thelist/archives/pix/morans.jpg

[sailor]

The 13 year old did no wrong either.

Who's life is more important? The potential life, or the already living? That is what it comes down to.

they're both already living, that's the major difference we have with each other.

Which baby are you talking about? The fetus or the frigging 13 year old child who's life is now not important enough to protect?

equally as important. life is life. the abortion will not make her horror go away.

[angrymissy]

There are exceptions to that. In parental consent states, the abortion doctors/clinics can take a girl before a judge and pay lawyers to do so, so they can lay out a case before a judge for something like that.

Do your research on it. It is a HUGE deal... which only, again, extends the length of time it takes to get an abortion, and puts the girl under even more fear.

[epo]

I love how some of the right to lifers would demand this yet bitch about how they have to pay more in taxes to support the government programs the mother and child would probably need.

Ding, ding! Or paying more in taxes to support programs which help to prevent the pregnancy in the first place.

Let me just state that I'm pro-death. I'm pro-choice on the way in and in extreme cases, pro-capital punishment & pro-euthansia on the way out.

[angrymissy]

they're both already living, that's the major difference we have with each other.

equally as important. life is life. the abortion will not make her horror go away.

And forcing her to birth will leave her with a constant, life time reminder.

[JerseySean]

they're both already living, that's the major difference we have with each other.



equally as important. life is life. the abortion will not make her horror go away.

I disagree with sailor here. But come on now guys, how often is that the case? I suspect not many.

[Dude!]

Forget the abortion argument....I'm just disturbed by the "USA, USA, USA" chant during her speech.

I hate jingo-ism.

apparently you didn't see all the flags waving at obamas speech last night
also alot of fags waving

[angrymissy]

I disagree with sailor here. But come on now guys, how often is that the case? I suspect not many.

But if you believe abortion is wrong or murder - how is it less wrong if you were raped as compared to contraception failing. Murder is murder. Wrong is wrong.

[JerseySean]

Do your research on it. It is a HUGE deal... which only, again, extends the length of time it takes to get an abortion, and puts the girl under even more fear.

No, a girl can get a hearing in 3 days before a family judge in most cases. So you didnt do you research

[epo]

Palin just mentioned Ferraro and Clinton and the "18 million cracks".

Ding, ding.....we have the rationale!

[A.J.]

Ding, ding! Or paying more in taxes to support programs which help to prevent the pregnancy in the first place.

Let me just state that I'm pro-death. I'm pro-choice on the way in and in extreme case, pro-capital punishment & pro-euthansia on the way out.

Ditto. Some lives are worthless.

[sailor]

But if you believe abortion is wrong or murder - how is it less wrong if you were raped as compared to contraception failing. Murder is murder. Wrong is wrong.

correct.

[angrymissy]

No, a girl can get a hearing in 3 days before a family judge in most cases. So you didnt do you research

In 3 days after they take the time to find someone to advocate for them before a judge.

My point is, right there, you're punishing the girl again.

My point is, if it had been me, I would have been scared to try to go in front of a judge. Again, it's something, a hurdle, that most would put off.

What if the judge says no? Do you understand how intimidating it would be to go before a judge as a pregnant teen, so he can decide your fate?

[JerseySean]

But if you believe abortion is wrong or murder - how is it less wrong if you were raped as compared to contraception failing. Murder is murder. Wrong is wrong.

I think its wrong. I dont know anyone who is proud of it. I think we all agree there should be less of it. I beleive in someone's ability to choose. But it still isnt a positive thing for our society. But yes a 7 month old fetus, thats murder.

[epo]

Is "Right Now" by Van Halen the only song that republicans are allowed to use?

[A.J.]

She sounds like Marge Gunderson. I was so hoping she'd yell "TAN SIERRA! TAN SIERRA!"

[epo]

apparently you didn't see all the flags waving at obamas speech last night
also alot of fags waving

Nice homosexual "joke".

Flag waving is much different that breaking into a "USA" chant 3 times during a 10 minute speech.

Nuance is a funny thing.

[epo]

She sounds like Marge Gunderson. I was so hoping she'd yell "TAN SIERRA! TAN SIERRA!"

All of this for what?....a little bit of money?

[TheMojoPin]

I think its wrong. I dont know anyone who is proud of it. I think we all agree there should be less of it. I beleive in someone's ability to choose. But it still isnt a positive thing for our society. But yes a 7 month old fetus, thats murder.

An abortion that late is typically done only if the mother's life is at risk from the pregnancy.

[Freakshow]

Is "Right Now" by Van Halen the only song that republicans are allowed to use?

Yes, now that Toby Keith 'came out' as a democrat...

[sailor]

An abortion that late is typically done only if the mother's life is at risk from the pregnancy.

but the baby is usually viable at that time, so why not just deliver it rather than kill it? is it less risky to kill it then deliver it?

[TheMojoPin]

but the baby is usually viable at that time, so why not just deliver it rather than kill it? is it less risky to kill it then deliver it?

I'm not going to pretend that I know, but I would assume that most woman that far along and getting the abortion only because their lives are at risk actually wanted the child, and the complications endangering the mother have likely done something critical or severely damaging to the child's development.

Bottom line, abortions that late simply don't happen as often as people seem to think. They're very extreme, last option resorts. Doctors aren't tossing them out there like, "oh, you don't want that baby at 7 months? NO PROBLEM!"

[KnoxHarrington]

I'm not going to pretend that I know, but I would assume that most woman that far along and getting the abortion only because their lives are at risk actually wanted the child, and the complications endangering the mother have likely done something critical or severely damaging to the child's development.

Bottom line, abortions that late simply don't happen as often as people seem to think. They're very extreme, last option resorts. Doctors aren't tossing them out there like, "oh, you don't want that baby at 7 months? NO PROBLEM!"

"Partial birth" abortion is a myth sold to rubes to try to sell the larger anti-choice agenda. They can tell graphic stories about what it does and say "Look what these feminists do!"

The Bush Administration wants a defintion of "abortion" that could include the use of contraceptives. Don't think this is about "saving babies.". It's about controlling women.

[foodcourtdruide]

but the baby is usually viable at that time, so why not just deliver it rather than kill it? is it less risky to kill it then deliver it?

I think only doctors with relevant experience can really answer this question.

[DolaMight]

Very possibly a very smart pick by McCain. Despite her flaws, picking her and timing his announcement when he did is easily the smartest two things he's done this entire election cycle thus far.

I was unsure at first thinking it was just a gimmick to use a pretty face to woo Hillary voters but it's made a huge impact.

For the first time I can remember McCain has knocked Obama off the front page, the day after Obama's speech which is supposed to be his day and give him momentum.

All the papers here and worldwide are announcing first female VP candidate. It really helps counter Obama's first black president appeal.

Unless that state strooper story gets outta hand this is a great pick.

I love the fact that the people who claim McCain will continue Bush's warlike ways now have to contend with the fact that McCain and Palin both have children serving in the war. They can't be hit with the draft-dodging willing to make war with no pesonal sacrifice like Bush/Cheney.

[NewYorkDragons80]

If you don't know when life begins, and nobody does, then life gets the benefit of the doubt.

I'm pretty liberal on social issues except for this one, and it sucks that pro-life people are labeled as having some deeper problem with women just because they believe developing children have rights. Amazingly, that's somehow a misogynistic position. Just as unfair is the characterization that all pro-lifers believe women are subservient by definition. That is what missy was implying wasn't it?

[Jujubees2]

If you don't know when life begins, and nobody does, then life gets the benefit of the doubt.

I'm pretty liberal on social issues except for this one, and it sucks that pro-life people are labeled as having some deeper problem with women just because they believe developing children have rights. Amazingly, that's somehow a misogynistic position. Just as unfair is the characterization that all pro-lifers believe women are subservient by definition. That is what missy was implying wasn't it?

If men could get pregnant, this wouldn't be an issue!

[Freakshow]

I was unsure at first thinking it was just a gimmick to use a pretty face to woo Hillary voters but it's made a huge impact.

For the first time I can remember McCain has knocked Obama off the front page, the day after Obama's speech which is supposed to be his day and give him momentum.

All the papers here and worldwide are announcing first female VP candidate. It really helps counter Obama's first black president appeal.

Unless that state strooper story gets outta hand this is a great pick.

I love the fact that the people who claim McCain will continue Bush's warlike ways now have to contend with the fact that McCain and Palin both have children serving in the war. They can't be hit with the draft-dodging willing to make war with no pesonal sacrifice like Bush/Cheney.

She isn't the first female VP canidate. Get it right, Canada...

[DolaMight]

She isn't the first female VP canidate. Get it right, Canada...

name one.

EDIT: I forgot Geraldine Ferraro was the first shemale VP candidate. Palin still the first female VP.

[futool]

She isn't the first female VP canidate. Get it right, Canada...

maybe they meant first Republican VP candidate.:unsure:

[Zorro]

name one.

geraldine ferraro

[futool]

name one.

Mondale / Ferraro

[IMSlacker]

Mandale / Ferraro

http://www.vintagedepotdirect.com/media/PB27.jpg

[A.J.]

She isn't the first female VP canidate. Get it right, Canada...

name one.

geraldine ferraro

http://maremare1225.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/mondale-ferraro.jpg

That's alright. Nobody here remembers them either.

[Freakshow]

maybe they meant first Republican VP candidate.:unsure:

or "if elected, she's be the first female vice president."

[DolaMight]

maybe they meant first Republican VP candidate.:unsure:

yeah I just didn't bother to read that part of the headline.

[Zorro]

or "if elected, she's be the first female vice president."

I thought Hillary was a vice-president....oh wait that's co-president...sorry

[angrymissy]

If you don't know when life begins, and nobody does, then life gets the benefit of the doubt.

I'm pretty liberal on social issues except for this one, and it sucks that pro-life people are labeled as having some deeper problem with women just because they believe developing children have rights. Amazingly, that's somehow a misogynistic position. Just as unfair is the characterization that all pro-lifers believe women are subservient by definition. That is what missy was implying wasn't it?

Subservient... I don't know if that's what I'm going for - incubators, breeders, yes. IMO - it's putting a potential life over a living woman's life.

I think it's fine and dandy to have your own beliefs on the matter, but not to push said beliefs on others, especially when it pertains to something that you can never experience (pregnancy)

[A.J.]

I think it's fine and dandy to have your own beliefs on the matter, but not to push said beliefs on others, especially when it pertains to something that you can never experience (pregnancy)

That's not true.

http://lh4.ggpht.com/fisherwy/R_UGyGV-uGI/AAAAAAAAOYs/6eBbC1pyZa4/pregnant+man+THOMAS+BEATIE+oprah+winfrey+show+pict ure%5B4%5D.jpg

[ahhdurr]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080829/ap_on_el_pr/cvn_veepstakes_palin

So whoever it was saying the Illuminati decide who'll be figure head are right it seems. I'd like to congratulate Barack Obama as first African -American president of these United States. Well done.

[angrymissy]

That's not true.

http://lh4.ggpht.com/fisherwy/R_UGyGV-uGI/AAAAAAAAOYs/6eBbC1pyZa4/pregnant+man+THOMAS+BEATIE+oprah+winfrey+show+pict ure%5B4%5D.jpg

IT HAS A UTERUS!

[Freakshow]

IT HAS A UTERUS!

It's Uterus not uter-u!

[Tallman388]

It's Uterus not uter-u!

I've been telling my wife this for the last 6 months, she has yet to find it funny. I wish she watched the Simpsons more.

[futool]

If you don't know when life begins, and nobody does, then life gets the benefit of the doubt.

I'm pretty liberal on social issues except for this one, and it sucks that pro-life people are labeled as having some deeper problem with women just because they believe developing children have rights. Amazingly, that's somehow a misogynistic position. Just as unfair is the characterization that all pro-lifers believe women are subservient by definition. That is what missy was implying wasn't it?


I agree with your "life gets the benefit of the doubt". I also partially agree with your take on the labels given to pro-lifers. But...
What moral argument could you possible make that gives you the right to tell others what they can and can't do? If your pro life, Great! No one is forcing you to get an abortion. If your 14 yo daughter gets pregnant and you decide as a family to keep the child i say God Bless. See, It feels nice to know that your beliefs can be followed without others getting involved. And i would NEVER tell anyone they couldn't. For myself, I'm in a place in life that i could responsibly care for a child and would never consider abortion, but i'm still pro choice for the rest of the world. It's not my decision to make nor should society.

As for Pro-Lifers.. STAY THE FUCK OUT OF OTHER PEOPLES LIFE'S!!!!
Worry about your own shit...

Subservient... I don't know if that's what I'm going for - incubators, breeders, yes. IMO - it's putting a potential life over a living woman's life.

I think it's fine and dandy to have your own beliefs on the matter, but not to push said beliefs on others, especially when it pertains to something that you can never experience (pregnancy)

Well, that a much nicer way of putting it :smile:

It's time for me to go take my pills :blink:

[sailor]

I agree with your "life gets the benefit of the doubt". I also partially agree with your take on the labels given to pro-lifers. But...
What moral argument could you possible make that gives you the right to tell others what they can and can't do? If your pro life, Great! No one is forcing you to get an abortion. If your 14 yo daughter gets pregnant and you decide as a family to keep the child i say God Bless. See, It feels nice to know that your beliefs can be followed without others getting involved. And i would NEVER tell anyone they couldn't. For myself, I'm in a place in life that i could responsibly care for a child and would never consider abortion, but i'm still pro choice for the rest of the world. It's not my decision to make nor should society.

As for Pro-Lifers.. STAY THE FUCK OUT OF OTHER PEOPLES LIFE'S!!!!
Worry about your own shit...



ridiculous argument. "hey, if you're against shooting your neighbor in the head, that's great no one's forcing you to, just don't tell others they can't do it."

[sailor]

I think only doctors with relevant experience can really answer this question.

because you're not a doctor i'm not allowed to ask?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I see a resemblance to Dr Melfi

http://newsminerextra.com/2006/election/images/candidates/thumbs/mug_spalin.jpg


http://www.omaha.com/neo-images/photos/large/040707kcdrmelfisopranos.jpg

[mikeyboy]

I see a resemblance to Dr Melfi

http://newsminerextra.com/2006/election/images/candidates/thumbs/mug_spalin.jpg


http://www.omaha.com/neo-images/photos/large/040707kcdrmelfisopranos.jpg

I think she has kind of a Nia Vardolos look.

http://weblogs.variety.com/wga_strike_blog/images/2007/11/26/niavardalos.jpg

[Tenbatsuzen]

I think the pick of Palin is awful. Underexperienced, highly conservative. She's got a MILF appeal, but that's the only redeeming thing right now.

I never could understand a woman being pro-life yet pro-death penalty. NEVER makes sense to me.

Biden is going to fucking wipe the floor with her.

[Tenbatsuzen]

I see a resemblance to Dr Melfi

http://newsminerextra.com/2006/election/images/candidates/thumbs/mug_spalin.jpg


http://www.omaha.com/neo-images/photos/large/040707kcdrmelfisopranos.jpg

This is what McCain will do after Biden makes her cry at the debates:

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h228/ickyway/henry212.gif

[A.J.]

I never could understand a woman being pro-life yet pro-death penalty. NEVER makes sense to me.

As you probably know, the argument is that the adult did something wrong but the baby did not.

[DolaMight]

<iframe height="339" width="425" src="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22425001/vp/26457563#26457563" frameborder="0" scrolling="no"></iframe>


After hearing her talk for the first time this is who she reminds me of ... lovable marge.
http://www.moviemaker.com/magazine/issues/47/images/frances.fargo.jpg

She sounds too much like a soccer mom. Speaks like a city councilman. Biden will likely embarrass her. If the debate goes bad her only hope might be that people get the impression IQ is bullying her.

[A.J.]

After hearing her talk for the first time this is who she reminds me of ... lovable marge.
http://www.moviemaker.com/magazine/issues/47/images/frances.fargo.jpg

I know. (http://www.ronfez.net/forums/showpost.php?p=1842186&postcount=645)

[ahhdurr]

This is what McCain will do after Biden makes her cry at the debates:

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h228/ickyway/henry212.gif

He'll have to go with more of a "one inch punch". Really limited range of motion in those shoulders.

[DolaMight]

I know. (http://www.ronfez.net/forums/showpost.php?p=1842186&postcount=645)

showoff

[K.C.]

Speaks like a PTA mom

Fixed.

[ahhdurr]

As you probably know, the argument is that the adult did something wrong but the baby did not.

That baby knew goddam well what it was doing.

[K.C.]

Sarah Palin reminds me of the Sparkle Motion lady from Donnie Darko

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/ouFnQTq6gNQ&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ouFnQTq6gNQ&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[A.J.]

This is what McCain will do after Biden makes her cry at the debates:

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h228/ickyway/henry212.gif

"I know there are Vice Presidential candidates who would have gotten out the minute their running mate gave them a gun to hide. But I didn't. I have to admit the truth. It turned me on."

[epo]

There are two things that I think could really hurt the McCain campaign with this pick:

1. You motivate the Clintons & their people. This could have a negative effect on the PUMA crowd and the Clinton hardcores due to the impression of pandering. You take a disaffected crowd and you motivate them to not only vote for Obama, but work hard for him as well.

2. You create a Quayle talking point. I'm not saying its fair as I don't know too much about Palin, but democratic surrogates are already working this angle (http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/dailypolitics/2008/08/palin-quayle.html):

"I think (her selection) would be something similar to Dan Quayle," Clyburn said. "Dan Quayle proved to be sort of an embarrassment as a campaigner. Being thrust on a national stage like that could be very tough."

If they make that stick, this shit is gonna get ugly.

[Tenbatsuzen]

As you probably know, the argument is that the adult did something wrong but the baby did not.

Doesn't matter. You're still taking a life no matter what. Totally invalidates the pro-life argument that all life is precious.

If you want to use religious rhetoric, even Jesus forgives you no matter what your sin. If Jesus can forgive a murderer, then you can't kill him because your judgment says you should.

Somebody being pro-life/pro-choice as VP/President doesn't make a lick of difference anyway. Even if Roe v. Wade is overturned, it goes back to the states, and there are so many more resources and education available to women to get an abortion than there was in the late 60's early 70's.

[K.C.]

You're right.

Hillary will respond to this with great vengeance and furious anger.

How dare anyone try to usurp her spot as top woman.

[Tenbatsuzen]

"I know there are Vice Presidential candidates who would have gotten out the minute their running mate gave them a gun to hide. But I didn't. I have to admit the truth. It turned me on."

"SARAH! WHAT ARE YOU DOING WITH THOSE VOTES?!?!? WE NEEDED THOSE!"

[futool]

ridiculous argument. "hey, if you're against shooting your neighbor in the head, that's great no one's forcing you to, just don't tell others they can't do it."

Now that's just ignorant. There's a huge difference between abortion and murder and you know it. But i get the point your trying to make. It's a common argument for pro life advocates. A life is a life regardless, right? OK, since your painting with such a large brush, let me ask you a hypothetical... A little girls body is riddled with cancer, her quality of life is gone, she spends 20 hours a day screaming in pain and is expected to live less than a week. Would you put her on Hospice?

Sure you would. Because we love her and don't want her to die in pain.

Did you know that Hospice administers drugs specificity designed to shut down the bodies organs so that the death process can be quickened? They also make sure that the "appearance" of death is less traumatic for the family by dosing her with opiates. Basically, they kill the little girl quicker and with less drama... Now to be fair they also try to slow the process as well. In cases of family members trying to get there to say good buy. But the point is, we as a society do this all the time. It happens thousands of times per day and the hypocritical pro lifers don't say shit. Would you have the moral convictions to tell that girls family they CAN'T do? I think not...

So please don't give me some horse shit argument about life is a life. :nono:




Aside from this discussion i hope we can still be buds :drunk:

[Tenbatsuzen]

I guess during the RNC, there will be a long tracking shot following McCain as he takes the stage.

[Tenbatsuzen]

I think an issue Palin is dealing with is that she was a highly visible governor. Even if the idea of abortion popped into her head for her most recent kid, she couldn't go and do it. She's not Maude.

So I do give credit to Palin for sticking to her principles in regards to this. It's a tough choice to make, and I know that people on this board can probably identify with the choice she had to make. it's one a parent would never want to be forced to make.

[ahhdurr]

:clap:"I know there are Vice Presidential candidates who would have gotten out the minute their running mate gave them a gun to hide. But I didn't. I have to admit the truth. It turned me on."

[sailor]

Now that's just ignorant. There's a huge difference between abortion and murder and you know it. But i get the point your trying to make. It's a common argument for pro life advocates. A life is a life regardless, right? OK, since your painting with such a large brush, let me ask you a hypothetical... A little girls body is riddled with cancer, her quality of life is gone, she spends 20 hours a day screaming in pain and is expected to live less than a week. Would you put her on Hospice?

Sure you would. Because we love her and don't want her to die in pain.

Did you know that Hospice administers drugs specificity designed to shut down the bodies organs so that the death process can be quickened? They also make sure that the "appearance" of death is less traumatic for the family by dosing her with opiates. Basically, they kill the little girl quicker and with less drama... Now to be fair they also try to slow the process as well. In cases of family members trying to get there to say good buy. But the point is, we as a society do this all the time. It happens thousands of times per day and the hypocritical pro lifers don't say shit. Would you have the moral convictions to tell that girls family they CAN'T do? I think not...

So please don't give me some horse shit argument about life is a life. :nono:




Aside from this discussion i hope we can still be buds :drunk:

i've never heard of hospice, so won't pretend to have an opinion on it.

what's the difference between killing a baby 5 months before or after birth? to me, none, even tho' it's not a popular view on this board.

i just think it's silly to act like you can't force what you believe on others thru the power of law. unless you're going to be a libertarian, the laws you want will have an impact on restricting the freedoms of others.

[Tenbatsuzen]

i've never heard of hospice, so won't pretend to have an opinion on it.

what's the difference between killing a baby 5 months before or after birth? to me, none, even tho' it's not a popular view on this board.


The "parasite" or "cancer" argument would be used, that until the fetus is viable, if it's unwanted, it's nothing more than an organism that needs to be expelled for the greater good of the "host body".

I don't mind people who are pro-life; I have an issue with the people who are IN YOUR FACE pro-life.

Personally, seeing the agony some members of my family had trying to have a kid, I would have loved for someone to give up a kid for adoption rather than aborting it. But it is what it is.

[epo]

i've never heard of hospice, so won't pretend to have an opinion on it.

what's the difference between killing a baby 5 months before or after birth? to me, none, even tho' it's not a popular view on this board.

i just think it's silly to act like you can't force what you believe on others thru the power of law. unless you're going to be a libertarian, the laws you want will have an impact on restricting the freedoms of others.


A hospice is a facility for those who are terminally ill and are in the final stages of life. It is generally their goal to make those final days as comfortable as possible for the patient and their family.

As for the "forcing what you believe on others thru the power of law" point....it's an interesting point when delivered by social conservatives. They argue for "small government"...then effectively attempt to tell YOU how to govern your personal life through the use of law.

[HBox]

Sarah Palin, just one month ago: (http://politicalwire.com/archives/2008/08/29/quote_of_the_day.html)

As for that VP talk all the time, I'll tell you, I still can't answer that question until somebody answers for me what is it exactly that the VP does every day? I'm used to being very productive and working real hard in an administration.

Ouch.

[sailor]

A hospice is a facility for those who are terminally ill and are in the final stages of life. It is generally their goal to make those final days as comfortable as possible for the patient and their family.

As for the "forcing what you believe on others thru the power of law" point....it's an interesting point when delivered by social conservatives. They argue for "small government"...then effectively attempt to tell YOU how to govern your personal life through the use of law.

i know what a hospice is, it sounded like he was speaking of a drug called Hospice. sorry if i read it incorrectly.

and i'm actually fairly liberal on social issues, other than abortion and death penalty (and i could live without the death penallty even though i'm in favor of it).

[HBox]

Sarah Palin, just one month ago: (http://politicalwire.com/archives/2008/08/29/quote_of_the_day.html)

As for that VP talk all the time, I'll tell you, I still can't answer that question until somebody answers for me what is it exactly that the VP does every day? I'm used to being very productive and working real hard in an administration.

Ouch.

I didn't want this quote getting bottom paged.

[A.J.]

Sarah Palin, just one month ago: (http://politicalwire.com/archives/2008/08/29/quote_of_the_day.html)

As for that VP talk all the time, I'll tell you, I still can't answer that question until somebody answers for me what is it exactly that the VP does every day? I'm used to being very productive and working real hard in an administration.

Ouch.

It's actually a valid question since you are going from being the Chief Executive of a state, to a job that was described by one of its own as "not being worth a bucket of warm piss".

One of two things would happen though: either McCain is going to be very active and on the go to show he's not too old, OR, she's going to be a very active and high-profile VP who will be asked to go out and act as McCain's "eyes and ears".

[Tenbatsuzen]

One of two things would happen though: either McCain is going to be very active and on the go to show he's not too old, OR, she's going to be a very active and high-profile VP who will be asked to go out and act as McCain's "eyes and ears".

you know who ELSE was from Alaska?

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g168/grahamofborg/Star%20Trek/riker.jpg

[Tenbatsuzen]

i know what a hospice is, it sounded like he was speaking of a drug called Hospice.


There is a drug like that. It allows for interstellar travel by folding space, but it also makes you talk with a scottish lisp.

[HBox]

Palin also supports teaching creationism in schools. (http://dwb.adn.com/news/politics/elections/story/8347904p-8243554c.html)

[hammersavage]

As for the "forcing what you believe on others thru the power of law" point....it's an interesting point when delivered by social conservatives. They argue for "small government"...then effectively attempt to tell YOU how to govern your personal life through the use of law.

DING DING! Always one of the biggest sticking points I have with conservatives. It's hipocracy on a base level.

[Tenbatsuzen]

Palin also supports teaching creationism in schools. (http://dwb.adn.com/news/politics/elections/story/8347904p-8243554c.html)

Hoooooo boy.

[AKA]

So, McCain blinked and didn't pick Mitt because of a combination of (a) he's a Morman and (b) they hate each other - those are the only reasons NOT to have picked him.

As to why he picked Palin, on a 20 year cycle the Republicans make what looks to be a dumb choice that works out for them - and this time, with her, I see a GOP combination platter at work here...

* She's a Gov - the last governor selected by a major party to run as a Vice President was Spiro, back in 1968, and that worked out for the Republicans...

* She's a novice - lots of reminders of Quayle, which might actually help - the bar will be set so low for her during the debates, all she has to do is make a couple of decent points and she could 'win' against Biden, but even if she doesn't it still might work; Quayle never satisfied the "commander in chief" test either, and they got in back in 1988 ...

* She's a she - The Republicans can do something that the Dems didn't do, also back in '88, and get a woman in as a Vice President - by picking her, McCain has assured himself that the Democrats won't be the only ones who can enjoy the warm glow of a "change" election..

* She's a Conservative Maverick - she fights corruption, but she sues the Feds because the Polar Bear is put on the Endangered Species list - she passes bills to give relief to Alaskians from high fuel costs, but her HUSBAND IS A FUCKING OIL MAN WORKING FOR BP?!

:wallbash:

Oh, bother...

[futool]

i've never heard of hospice, so won't pretend to have an opinion on it.

what's the difference between killing a baby 5 months before or after birth? to me, none, even tho' it's not a popular view on this board.

i just think it's silly to act like you can't force what you believe on others thru the power of law. unless you're going to be a libertarian, the laws you want will have an impact on restricting the freedoms of others.


Sorry, i just assume people know this goofy medical shit. Hospice is often used in terminal care. They are often called when there's very little left to do than make the patient & family comfortable.

Of course you can force others to do what you believe is right thru law. We do it all the time. But how you feel about when life begins is not shared by everyone and shouldn't be forced upon others.

How would you like it if the majority of the country swung in the complete opposite direction and said "Your only allowed to have 1 child and any other pregnancies will be terminated immediately". You , me and everyone else would fucking loose our shit right? So don't be surprised when a pro choicer has the same reaction.

And yes there's a huge difference between -5 months & +5 months.
This is still a cluster of slop. Granted, that slop might someday form into Jessica Alba.
http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:nK32kzcU-V6ldM:http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/i/bcst/yp/hnation/187/51151563.jpg

And this is MY cluster of slop when he was 5 months.
http://img373.imageshack.us/img373/8752/img21917211662nl8.jpg


Listen the bottom line is nobody is imposing their beliefs on you, so why would you impose on them?

[futool]

There is a drug like that. It allows for interstellar travel by folding space, but it also makes you talk with a scottish lisp.
:clap::clap::clap:
Very funny sir, very funny.

Palin also supports teaching creationism in schools. (http://dwb.adn.com/news/politics/elections/story/8347904p-8243554c.html)

:ohmy: Your kidding right?

[HBox]

:clap::clap::clap:
Very funny sir, very funny.



:ohmy: Your kidding right?

Palin was answering a question from the moderator near the conclusion of Wednesday night's televised debate on KAKM Channel 7 when she said, "Teach both. You know, don't be afraid of information. Healthy debate is so important, and it's so valuable in our schools. I am a proponent of teaching both."

Unfortunately not.

[epo]

Palin also supports teaching creationism in schools. (http://dwb.adn.com/news/politics/elections/story/8347904p-8243554c.html)

That only furthers the "Bush policies/McCain = the same/terrible" talking point that the democrats have been making a ton of ground on. I understand the need to keep the religious right base happy...but my God. (Pun completely intended.)

[Tenbatsuzen]

:clap::clap::clap:
Very funny sir, very funny.





I am so glad someone got that. I was really afraid I was reaching there.

"Whoever controlsh the schpice... controlsh the univershive."

[DolaMight]

you know who ELSE was from Alaska?

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g168/grahamofborg/Star%20Trek/riker.jpg

What's a good abortion discussion without Lieutenant Riker? jack of all trades.

[HBox]

And then there's the federal investigation she's under. Her sister is going through a contentious divorce and child custody battle with a state trooper. So Palin allegedly tried to have him him fired. When his superior refused, the superior was fired.

More here, including video of a local news report. (http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/211310.php)

[Freakshow]

So, McCain blinked and didn't pick Mitt because of a combination of (a) he's a Morman and (b) they hate each other - those are the only reasons NOT to have picked him.

As to why he picked Palin, on a 20 year cycle the Republicans make what looks to be a dumb choice that works out for them - and this time, with her, I see a GOP combination platter at work here...

* She's a Gov - the last governor selected by a major party to run as a Vice President was Spiro, back in 1968, and that worked out for the Republicans...

* She's a novice - lots of reminders of Quayle, which might actually help - the bar will be set so low for her during the debates, all she has to do is make a couple of decent points and she could 'win' against Biden, but even if she doesn't it still might work; Quayle never satisfied the "commander in chief" test either, and they got in back in 1988 ...

* She's a she - The Republicans can do something that the Dems didn't do, also back in '88, and get a woman in as a Vice President - by picking her, McCain has assured himself that the Democrats won't be the only ones who can enjoy the warm glow of a "change" election..

* She's a Conservative Maverick - she fights corruption, but she sues the Feds because the Polar Bear is put on the Endangered Species list - she passes bills to give relief to Alaskians from high fuel costs, but her HUSBAND IS A FUCKING OIL MAN WORKING FOR BP?!

:wallbash:

Oh, bother...

'84 not '88. Get your facts straight USA...

[epo]

'84 not '88. Get your facts straight USA...

???

Quayle was the VP in the 88 election, not the 84 election.

[Tenbatsuzen]

What's a good abortion discussion without Lieutenant Riker? jack of all trades.

He examines a vagina, pulls down his shirt, and then bellows, "What the hell is going on down there?"

[Freakshow]

And then there's the federal investigation she's under. Her sister is going through a contentious divorce and child custody battle with a state trooper. So Palin allegedly tried to have him him fired. When his superior refused, the superior was fired.

More here, including video of a local news report. (http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/211310.php)

Hey, you read her wikipedia page. awesome.

[Freakshow]

* She's a she - The Republicans can do something that the Dems didn't do, also back in '88, and get a woman in as a Vice President -



Ferraro was 84 not 88.

[HBox]

Hey, you read her wikipedia page. awesome.

Silly me for trying to learn a bit about a Vice Presidential candidate.

[Freakshow]

Silly me for trying to learn a bit about a Vice Presidential candidate.

sorry, budday didn't mean to be snarky. But i'm pretty sure we're all going to hear a whole lot about in the next couple weeks. It's not some big secret...

[HBox]

sorry, budday didn't mean to be snarky. But i'm pretty sure we're all going to hear a whole lot about in the next couple weeks. It's not some big secret...

Fair enough.

[K.C.]

* She's a Conservative Maverick

Not anymore.

McCain turned in his credentials at the door. She'll do the same.

[GreatAmericanZero]

Alot of people talk shit about this Sarah Palin, but I absolutely LOVE her brother, Michael Palin. I think hes a genius, def in my top 4 Monty Python-ers.


In all seriousness, I don't know how it will pan out and I'm not going to pretend that I do. It doesn't need to be said that this is a move to get the Hilary votes over to his side (duh). But I do know that women want a woman in that office. Ive seen political columnist speak and the first question always asked is by a (usually overweight) woman saying "When will there be a woman president?" So there we go. It will definitely be an interesting election to say the least

[Dude!]

I think the pick of Palin is awful. Underexperienced, highly conservative. She's got a MILF appeal, but that's the only redeeming thing right now.

I never could understand a woman being pro-life yet pro-death penalty. NEVER makes sense to me.

Biden is going to fucking wipe the floor with her.

Will this be with his own words
or from words he has plagarized from others

[GreatAmericanZero]

Americans of all types will see a movie where the lead is a black man (Will Smtih and Denzel Washignton are two of the biggest biggest stars in the world)...i dont know too many that would see a movie that is being opened by a woman (julia roberts movies always suck!)

Just a thought...

[Tenbatsuzen]

Will this be with his own words
or from words he has plagarized from others

One thing about a debate - it's not a speech. It's about thinking on your feet. Biden is well versed. He's been a senator for god knows how long. Her experience is being a mom, a mayor, part of the PTA, and governor for a year and a half.

He will DESTROY her.

[HBox]

Will this be with his own words
or from words he has plagarized from others

It will be his own words. Many, many, many, MANY of his own words.

[Tenbatsuzen]

Americans of all types will see a movie where the lead is a black man (Will Smtih and Denzel Washignton are two of the biggest biggest stars in the world)...i dont know too many that would see a movie that is being opened by a woman (julia roberts movies always suck!)

Just a thought...

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51VVP4YQ1TL.jpg

[GreatAmericanZero]

so let me ask you guys a question..i dont know how many of you support mccain and this decision, but this is what doesn't make sense to me (and im seriously a swing voter, i havent made up my mind yet)

ok, so the republicans tactic on the Dems has been Obama is too young and inexperienced. But they just chose a vp candidate thats a little younger than Obama and has even less foreign policy experience

so, now it seems both sides are evenly matched...1 inexperienced person, 1 old white experienced person

i would think a better strategy for the republicans would've been to get another "experienced" politician as VP and then they will be double as strong, instead of now canceling eachother out



i dunno...i actually think this whole "experience" point people have been throwing around is stupid, any president is going to put experienced people in charge of aspects in their administration...im just not getting this move from what i know about politics (except as a "hey hilary voters, vote for me now")

[angrymissy]

I think VP choice for McCain is more important than VP choice for Obama. He is O to the LD. Higher chance of him kickin it in office.

[GreatAmericanZero]

I think VP choice for McCain is more important than VP choice for Obama. He is O to the LD. Higher chance of him kickin it in office.

oh wow..good point


i am just laughing at intolerant white men today. Haha - its going to be one or the other. FACE!

[boobieman]

Never expected McCain's pick to be her. Not that I care that it is a women, but she only been governor of Alaska for less then 1 term. And it's Alaska, what do you have to govern over? Make sure the ice stays, the penguins and polar bears are alright, and that the deadliest catch is filmed for the next season.

This could screw up McCain. Doesn't matter, I think I am Nader Raidering this election.

One thing for sure...stunt brain doesn't know shit!

SEEEEYAYAAAAAAAYYYY

[Tenbatsuzen]

so let me ask you guys a question..i dont know how many of you support mccain and this decision, but this is what doesn't make sense to me (and im seriously a swing voter, i havent made up my mind yet)

ok, so the republicans tactic on the Dems has been Obama is too young and inexperienced. But they just chose a vp candidate thats a little younger than Obama and has even less foreign policy experience

so, now it seems both sides are evenly matched...1 inexperienced person, 1 old white experienced person

i would think a better strategy for the republicans would've been to get another "experienced" politician as VP and then they will be double as strong, instead of now canceling eachother out



i dunno...i actually think this whole "experience" point people have been throwing around is stupid, any president is going to put experienced people in charge of aspects in their administration...im just not getting this move from what i know about politics (except as a "hey hilary voters, vote for me now")

I considered myself undecided until McCain his pick for VP, because to me, that's what it was going to boil down to.

I was uninspired by the pick of Biden, but I could deal with it.

However, McCain's pick just flabbergasts me and pushes me strongly into Obama's camp. And I was a huge McCain supporter. It's a smart move, but it's the equivalent of trading deadline deal for a soon-to-be free agent. Sure, it'll help you for the next three months, but will it help 2-3 years down the road?

[DolaMight]

I think this election is going to end suddenly in an involuntary act of passion at the RNC with McCain awkwardly jamming his tongue down Sarah's throat. Palin taken aback by the gesture eventually gives in and they do circular tongue motions in and outside of their mouths with slobber running down their cheeks and sloppy old people kissing sounds broadcast on the mic's. When they come to they both dust off and look around wondering if anyone saw that.

[angrymissy]

I think this election is going to end suddenly in an involuntary act of passion at the RNC with McCain awkwardly jamming his tongue down Sarah's throat. Palin taken aback by the gesture eventually gives in and they do circular tongue motions in and outside of their mouths with slobber running down their cheeks and sloppy old people kissing sounds broadcast on the mic's. When they come to they both dust off and look around wondering if anyone saw that.

http://studiocsk.com/data/vomit.jpg

[futool]

so let me ask you guys a question..i dont know how many of you support mccain and this decision, but this is what doesn't make sense to me (and im seriously a swing voter, i havent made up my mind yet)

ok, so the republicans tactic on the Dems has been Obama is too young and inexperienced. But they just chose a vp candidate thats a little younger than Obama and has even less foreign policy experience

so, now it seems both sides are evenly matched...1 inexperienced person, 1 old white experienced person

i would think a better strategy for the republicans would've been to get another "experienced" politician as VP and then they will be double as strong, instead of now canceling eachother out



i dunno...i actually think this whole "experience" point people have been throwing around is stupid, any president is going to put experienced people in charge of aspects in their administration...im just not getting this move from what i know about politics (except as a "hey hilary voters, vote for me now")

:unsure: I dunno...
The whole thing is offensive to woman actually.

[GreatAmericanZero]

I considered myself undecided until McCain his pick for VP, because to me, that's what it was going to boil down to.

I was uninspired by the pick of Biden, but I could deal with it.

However, McCain's pick just flabbergasts me and pushes me strongly into Obama's camp. And I was a huge McCain supporter. It's a smart move, but it's the equivalent of trading deadline deal for a soon-to-be free agent. Sure, it'll help you for the next three months, but will it help 2-3 years down the road?

yeah...i agree with what you're saying. Im not going to talk shit about her til i see her speak, but what you say seems right. Plus Im not the biggest fan of women...it just annoys the shit out of me when they won't fuck me. Just a pet peeve

[Tenbatsuzen]

yeah...i agree with what you're saying. Im not going to talk shit about her til i see her speak, but what you say seems right. Plus Im not the biggest fan of women...it just annoys the shit out of me when they won't fuck me. Just a pet peeve

Oh, Palin is MILF to the extreme. I've never wanted to have sex with an elected official before until I saw this:

http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/1684/sarahpalin73158921ur7.jpg

[HBox]

I think this election is going to end suddenly in an involuntary act of passion at the RNC with McCain awkwardly jamming his tongue down Sarah's throat. Palin taken aback by the gesture eventually gives in and they do circular tongue motions in and outside of their mouths with slobber running down their cheeks and sloppy old people kissing sounds broadcast on the mic's. When they come to they both dust off and look around wondering if anyone saw that.

That would look like an old man making out with his daughter.

[Freakshow]

meh. Q99.7 sucks.

[HBox]

meh. Q99.7 sucks.

And I had such high hopes for the official station of the Iditarod. How can you screw THAT up?

[KnoxHarrington]

When I first saw this pick this morning, I thought "Well, maybe it's not a bad one", but the more I think about it, the more I see what a stupid pick it was. The main reason is that the McCain campaign has just lost the one charge they have that will truly stick to Obama: inexperience. The whole "Is he ready?" thing. It's hard to argue that experience matters and you can't trust Obama on one hand, and on the other pick some chick who's been governor of a state with about 100 people living in it for like 6 weeks to be the one who steps in if you die. So does or doesn't it, McCain?

[GreatAmericanZero]

When I first saw this pick this morning, I thought "Well, maybe it's not a bad one", but the more I think about it, the more I see what a stupid pick it was. The main reason is that the McCain campaign has just lost the one charge they have that will truly stick to Obama: inexperience. The whole "Is he ready?" thing. It's hard to argue that experience matters and you can't trust Obama on one hand, and on the other pick some chick who's been governor of a state with about 100 people living in it for like 6 weeks to be the one who steps in if you die. So does or doesn't it, McCain?

yeah thats a good point too. The main attack the Republicans are using they can't really use anymore...or atleast the Dems can throw it back at them easily.


Btw, im like an hour from Lexington, in the Florence area of N. KY. Haven't been to Lexington yet, anything fun to do there?

[boobieman]

http://wonkette.com/223252/join-the-mile-high-club-with-gilf-sarah-palin

Now Bill Clinton just wished he picked her as his VP.


SEEYAYAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

[boobieman]

Of course Palin is no this......

http://nicedeb.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/hillary-clinton.jpg


SEEEYAYAYAYAYA

[NewYorkDragons80]

This is what McCain will do after Biden makes her cry at the debates
Seriously, what is that based on?

[GreatAmericanZero]

Seriously, what is that based on?

that picture was a "Goodfellas" reference