All things McCain

[GreatAmericanZero]

See, THAT'S FUNNY!

ugh...

I don't know how the guy behind the Naked Gun, Airplane! and Kentucky Fried Movie could fall so far as to not even live up the standard set by the Wayans brothers, and then do that.

yeah, funny people tend to lose it at some point. Dan Aykroyd hasn't made anyone laugh in 15 years

[IMSlacker]

yeah, funny people tend to lose it at some point. Dan Aykroyd hasn't made anyone laugh in 15 years

11 years.

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[thepaulo]

fuck all politicians they suck dick

[ladyface]

Half point.

[DolaMight]

fuck all pretend movie reviewers they suck dick

[epo]

fuck all politicians they suck dick

eww.

[thepaulo]

They take us for a bunch of suckers.

[Recyclerz]

fuck all politicians they suck dick

Well, some of the right-wing nut jobs apparently do, sure. And Barney Frank, of course. But if this were true about ALL politicians I'm thinking a certain governor from a certain northern "state" might not have five kids.

[NewYorkDragons80]

fuck all politicians they suck dick
Did Paulo say he wants to mouthfuck politicians? Contact the Secret Service!

[epo]

Did Paulo say he wants to mouthfuck politicians? Contact the Secret Service!

That might just how they get things done in Florida...it's a strange state!

[epo]

Eight years after S.C., Karl Rove works with Sen. McCain’s camp (http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/eight-years-after-s.c.-karl-rove-works-with-sen.-mccains-camp-2008-09-08.html)

Eight years after helping George Bush defeat John McCain in a bitter primary, Karl Rove appears to be playing a significant role in helping the Arizona Republican win the presidency.

Rove has downplayed his contact with the McCain campaign, but the former adviser to President Bush met with GOP delegates from Colorado last Wednesday. Rove, who is now a Fox News analyst, told reporters after the meeting that he has friends in the McCain organization who occasionally seek his advice.

Straight talk indeed.

[DarkHippie]

Has anyone talked about McCain being part of the Keating Five?

[scottinnj]

Has anyone talked about McCain being part of the Keating Five?

NO!!!! We're talking about transvestite swine, but Obama HAS NOT MENTIONED AT ALL THE SAVINGS AND LOAN BAILOUT SCANDAL!!!

I can see Obama's war room discussion now:

"Let's do an ad to remind the American people McCain's involvement with the Savings and Loan scandal"

"Naaah, that would involve numbers and fancy lawyer words. What we should do is have Obama respond to fake outrage in order to keep the GOP on the offense for a few more days!"

[scottinnj]

Eight years after S.C., Karl Rove works with Sen. McCain’s camp (http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/eight-years-after-s.c.-karl-rove-works-with-sen.-mccains-camp-2008-09-08.html)


Straight talk indeed.

Remember I told you about that? It is all about keeping the White House in GOP hands.

[Jujubees2]

So the McCain camp tries to present facts that aren't even facts...

Ad Hawk: McCain's Fact-Free 'Fact Check' (http://blog.newsweek.com/blogs/stumper/archive/2008/09/10/ad-hawk-mccain-s-fact-free-fact-check.aspx)

[JerseySean]

Right up until the last sentence (I don't think Obama is inexperienced, has bad judgment, or a bad record on taxes), I agree.

That's the mold of this election.

But none of that has anything to do with Sarah Palin. Never will the question be ask, "Senator Obama, compare your experience to Sarah Palin."


I feel vindicated folks. Obama has been running against Palin and he has been LOSING.

http://www.suntimes.com/news/brown/1157191,CST-NWS-brown11.article

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122108935141721343.html?mod=todays_columnists

[mikeyboy]

I feel vindicated folks. Obama has been running against Palin and he has been LOSING.

http://www.suntimes.com/news/brown/1157191,CST-NWS-brown11.article

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122108935141721343.html?mod=todays_columnists

I haven't read them yet, but aren't they both opinion pieces? Heck, one of them's written by Karl Rove.

[foodcourtdruide]

I haven't read them yet, but aren't they both opinion pieces? Heck, one of them's written by Karl Rove.

Finally, a non-bias source.

[JerseySean]

I haven't read them yet, but aren't they both opinion pieces? Heck, one of them's written by Karl Rove.

Yes mikeyboy, but it comes from a liberal and conservative comentator. I said earlier that if this becomes Obama v Palin, McCain wins. I am glad to see that mr Rove reads my posts on .net. Polling data suggests that since Obama and the Dems have been off message for the last few weeks, they have dipped severely.

[mikeyboy]

Yes mikeyboy, but it comes from a liberal and conservative comentator. I said earlier that if this becomes Obama v Palin, McCain wins. I am glad to see that mr Rove reads my posts on .net. Polling data suggests that since Obama and the Dems have been off message for the last few weeks, they have dipped severely.

It's pretty easy to cherry pick opinions though, isn't it. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I'm sure there are differing opinions out there, regardless of party line. Finding someone who has the same opinion as you really doesn't vindicate anything.

[JerseySean]

It's pretty easy to cherry pick opinions though, isn't it. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I'm sure there are differing opinions out there, regardless of party line. Finding someone who has the same opinion as you really doesn't vindicate anything.

No but I took critisism on this board for that comment. But the fact is that Obama has suffered since doing that. Im with epo on this, he needs to stop talking about Palin and stay on message. From Obama comparing his campaign to Wasilla, Alaska to the lipstick gaffe, he will not win by taking her on. he needs to ignore her and go after McCain and the Republicans. It wasnt finding, it was the theme in a few polico articles from yesterday and RCP headlines today. It is the theme of Chris Matthews, Rachel Maddow and other liberal comentators. I've heard the same on air america today. It seems to be consensus from political professionals that he has gaffed by running against her directly. Hence, vindicated.

[celery]

It's pretty easy to cherry pick opinions though, isn't it. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I'm sure there are differing opinions out there, regardless of party line. Finding someone who has the same opinion as you really doesn't vindicate anything.

Rove has a regular column in the WSJ. Given that he's working for the McCain campaign, it's obviously just political propaganda.

[JerseySean]

Rove has a regular column in the WSJ. Given that he's working for the McCain campaign, it's obviously just political propaganda.

He is not working for McCain

[scottinnj]

He is not working for McCain

You mean he is not on the McCain payroll. But he still is giving advice to the campaign managers. He even said it himself on Hannity's show during the convention.

[TheMojoPin]

Yes mikeyboy, but it comes from a liberal and conservative comentator. I said earlier that if this becomes Obama v Palin, McCain wins. I am glad to see that mr Rove reads my posts on .net. Polling data suggests that since Obama and the Dems have been off message for the last few weeks, they have dipped severely.

Or the GOP ticket is getting the usual second convention bounce exactly when it was estimated it would show up in the polls.

[AKA]

During the primaries, in states like Ohio and Pennsylvania especially, Sen. Obama underperformed compared to the polling data. It had been said (more than once) that some voters were just not honest, and that once they were alone in the booths that they would not be able to bring themselves to vote for Obama - whether it be because of experience, "class" or race.

All during the Democratic and GOP conventions, I told everyone that I immediately knock off 4-5 points off of any Obama number, because of what happened in states like Ohio and Pennsylvania.

So, now that Gov. Palin has joined the election, we're seeing people suddenly free to be honest because they can now, in good conscious, vote for "change" - and they can be honest about it.

I absolutely think the numbers we're seeing now are the true numbers - that this election is split like no other, because of race, gender, class, conservative, liberal - and I think (finally) the issue of abortion really will make a difference one way or another in a presidential election (more than just the "read meat" red states use for local ballots to get the 'seeds out to vote) - it's not a great discovery, but what really sets these two apart for most people during this election cycle will settle on the supreme court.


If Obama wins the electoral vote and not the popular vote, I will never stop laughing - I'll just call my dad every day out in Kansas and laugh. Of course - that said - some people thought 2004 would go that way too...

[DarkHippie]

As much as they piss me off, I have to give credit to the repbulicans for playing the game so well. They know exactly what move to make and when. If they were only as good at running the country as they are at getting elected.

[A.J.]

It was inevitable.

http://www.mypartyshirt.com/images/vpilf.jpg

[El Mudo]

NO!!!! We're talking about transvestite swine, but Obama HAS NOT MENTIONED AT ALL THE SAVINGS AND LOAN BAILOUT SCANDAL!!!

I can see Obama's war room discussion now:

"Let's do an ad to remind the American people McCain's involvement with the Savings and Loan scandal"

"Naaah, that would involve numbers and fancy lawyer words. What we should do is have Obama respond to fake outrage in order to keep the GOP on the offense for a few more days!"



....Or probably because 4 of the 5 were Democrats, and McCain was cleared of wrong doing

[Furtherman]

I don't know if this website leans one way or the other, but it has a review of Palin's interview.

It's not good.

Without being smarmy about it or unfurling gotcha questions, ABC News anchor Charles Gibson demonstrated that he knows volumes more about national security and foreign policy than does Republican vice-presidential candidate Sarah Palin. (http://www.slate.com/id/2199999/)

[El Mudo]

I don't know if this website leans one way or the other, but it has a review of Palin's interview.

It's not good.

Without being smarmy about it or unfurling gotcha questions, ABC News anchor Charles Gibson demonstrated that he knows volumes more about national security and foreign policy than does Republican vice-presidential candidate Sarah Palin. (http://www.slate.com/id/2199999/)



Earlier in this week, Jack Shafer proposed 10 questions for Gibson to toss at Palin. Before that, he predicted that Palin would beat the press by running as the new Spiro Agnew and likened Sarah Palin to a natural disaster.

Think that about sums it up

[Ritalin]

I just watched an excerpt of McCain on the View - I think it was today - and he said that he prays every day for guidance.

You know what? Bullshit. Bull fucking shit. He does not. I'm standing right here and saying he doesn't.

And if I were religious I would be offended that McCain is tossing around legitimate faith like a political football. I don't begrudge anyone their faith. It's intensely important and private and a very large part of some people's lives. I respect that. I respect Sarah Palin's faith. I think it's genuine and I think she is genuine about it.

I'm not even talking about the idea that a politician would use his or her faith to guide their decisions. Obama strikes me as a man with faith, and while I wish he didn't talk about it so much I recognize that it's an important part of his life and it will guide his decisions. There are certain issues - stem cell research, reproductive rights, marriage - where I want a politician who is guided less by his or her religion than by what is best for our country, and I personally regard any politician or candidate who can't separate the dictates of faith from sound public policy to be unqualified for office.

But John McCain is cynically waving the God flag in order to win an election. That in itself isn't novel or surprising. Listening to him actually testify to daily prayer for guidance was shocking.

I guess I'm just late to the party, but I was stunned when I heard it.

[JerseySean]

I just watched an excerpt of McCain on the View - I think it was today - and he said that he prays every day for guidance.

You know what? Bullshit. Bull fucking shit. He does not. I'm standing right here and saying he doesn't.

And if I were religious I would be offended that McCain is tossing around legitimate faith like a political football. I don't begrudge anyone their faith. It's intensely important and private and a very large part of some people's lives. I respect that. I respect Sarah Palin's faith. I think it's genuine and I think she is genuine about it.

I'm not even talking about the idea that a politician would use his or her faith to guide their decisions. Obama strikes me as a man with faith, and while I wish he didn't talk about it so much I recognize that it's an important part of his life and it will guide his decisions. There are certain issues - stem cell research, reproductive rights, marriage - where I want a politician who is guided less by his or her religion than by what is best for our country, and I personally regard any politician or candidate who can't separate the dictates of faith from sound public policy to be unqualified for office.

But John McCain is cynically waving the God flag in order to win an election. That in itself isn't novel or surprising. Listening to him actually testify to daily prayer for guidance was shocking.

I guess I'm just late to the party, but I was stunned when I heard it.

Angry. Well check this out

A new University of Cincinnati Ohio Poll in Ohio shows Sen. John McCain leading Sen. Barack Obama among likely voters, 48% to 44%.

[Jujubees2]

Angry. Well check this out

A new University of Cincinnati Ohio Poll in Ohio shows Sen. John McCain leading Sen. Barack Obama among likely voters, 48% to 44%.

It's God's will I tell ya'

[Furtherman]

he said that he prays every day for guidance.

If I believed that, he would have lost my vote right then and there.

But I think he's just pandering to the pray-ers anyway.

[JerseySean]

If I believed that, he would have lost my vote right then and there.

But I think he's just pandering to the pray-ers anyway.

Yes because praying for guidance is an automatic disqualifier isnt it?

[ladyface]

I absolutely think the numbers we're seeing now are the true numbers - that this election is split like no other, because of race, gender, class, conservative, liberal - and I think (finally) the issue of abortion

Not forgetting moral conscience, and oh yes, intelligence.

[celery]

lol

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[Furtherman]

Yes because praying for guidance is an automatic disqualifier isnt it?

You're talking to yourself. The only thing that guides you is yourself. But if someone believed that they were getting guidance from somewhere else... then yea, they're loony and would be dangerous to be in a powerful position.

[JerseySean]

You're talking to yourself. The only thing that guides you is yourself. But if someone believed that they were getting guidance from somewhere else... then yea, they're loony and would be dangerous to be in a powerful position.

So who are you voting for?

[NewYorkDragons80]

As much as they piss me off, I have to give credit to the repbulicans for playing the game so well. They know exactly what move to make and when. If they were only as good at running the country as they are at getting elected.
I have a lot of faith that a McCain or Obama administration will run this nation competently.

[Furtherman]

So who are you voting for?

McCain.

[Ritalin]

Angry. Well check this out

A new University of Cincinnati Ohio Poll in Ohio shows Sen. John McCain leading Sen. Barack Obama among likely voters, 48% to 44%.

Meh. I don't think any polls are important yet.

It's too early.

[epo]

Last year in a republican debate, John McCain told us why he was more qualified than his opponents to work in the executive branch of our government (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/21/us/politics/21debate-transcript.html?_r=1&pagewanted=3&fta=y&oref=slogin):

I am prepared. I am prepared. I need no on-the-job training.

I wasn't a mayor for a short period of time. I wasn't a governor for a short period of time.

Oh the irony of your own words.

[Dirtybird12]

3 parts of todays VIEW w/ the maverick :sad:

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[epo]

http://images.dailykos.com/images/user/3/McCain_Palin.jpg

[AKA]

I am surprised it took the McCain Campaign so long to co-opt the "change" issue and I'm a little disappointed Sen. Obama didn't see it coming.

During the primaries Gov. Romney latched onto it so fast he was even using the same "font" in his banners that Obama used. Sen. McCain should have looked at Sen. Clinton to see that running on "experience" in a change year was not going to win him anything. Both Clinton and McCain could have easily ran with the narratives of "change" early on if they had wanted to - both have impressive narratives - the wife of Bush's predecessor and the candidate who had been in a bitter fight 8 years earlier with.

Back in 2000 the Republicans ran with the "change" issue against Vice President Gore - the most qualified person to that point to run for the office since Richard Nixon. They "successfully" used it against him. Since Nixon left office, "Change" and "Experience" are tied at 4 elections each (although an argument could be made that 84 and 96 elections were really about changing one experience with another).

I really would have loved to have seen McCain 2000 in this election, with the last 4 years wiped clean. Not that he shouldn't have supported the surge or the policies he really believed in, but those images of him practically in Bush's lap, giggling like a 7 year old, frustrate and piss me off - because I really think that McCain 2000 could have gone as far, and would have been on better footing entering the election - and might have even been able to put Sen. Lieberman on the ticket. This pandering mouse of a man I once had respect for really is sad and scary.

I have a lot of faith that a McCain or Obama administration will run this nation competently.

I don't disagree with this, but what is really giving Obama an edge (for me) is that in his first big decision he picked Sen. Biden, and that gives me more comfort for the people he will surround himself with - experienced, smart and not afraid to express their opinions. That contrasts sharply with the Gov. Palin pick, as well as surrounding himself with scum like Rick Davis and especially (now) that ass-hat Tucker Eskew - one of the South Carolina strategists the McCain 2000 campaign team once held responsible for the smears.

http://www.cofc.edu/communication/council/graphics/eskew.jpg

[HBox]

The McCain campaign: John McCain created Blackberry. (http://www.politico.com/blogs/jonathanmartin/0908/HoltzEakin_McCain_helped_create_BlackBerry.html?sh owall)

I'm not holding my breath that the "liberal media" will cram this down our throats as they did the "Al Gore created the Internet" phenomenon.

[epo]

The McCain campaign: John McCain created Blackberry. (http://www.politico.com/blogs/jonathanmartin/0908/HoltzEakin_McCain_helped_create_BlackBerry.html?sh owall)

I'm not holding my breath that the "liberal media" will cram this down our throats as they did the "Al Gore created the Internet" phenomenon.

I threw away my internets in 2000 and now I've gotta throw away my Blackberry. Fuck!

Seriously though, that might be the dumbest thing I've ever read.

[DiabloSammich]

Seriously though, that might be the dumbest thing I've ever read.




Really?? (http://www.jrcigarblogs.com/)

[NewYorkDragons80]

I threw away my internets in 2000 and now I've gotta throw away my Blackberry. Fuck!

Seriously though, that might be the dumbest thing I've ever read.

The Al Gore thing was at a time when the internet was good at perpetuating rumors, but the truth was "still putting its pants on," as Churchill said. I don't think the blogs are going to let this one get carried away.

[epo]

The Al Gore thing was at a time when the internet was good at perpetuating rumors, but the truth was "still putting its pants on," as Churchill said. I don't think the blogs are going to let this one get carried away.

I get your point, but this only perpetuates the stereotype that McCain is "out of touch" and doesn't know jack shit about the economy. That could be the overriding message at play here.

[K.C.]

Ugh...well, I guess she was smart enough to tie Obama and Biden in, too, but McCain's surrogates do him no favors.

Nothing like pointing out your own candidates aren't qualified to run a business in a time of economic crisis.


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[HBox]

Ugh...well, I guess she was smart enough to tie Obama and Biden in, too, but McCain's surrogates do him no favors.

Nothing like pointing out your own candidates aren't qualified to run a business in a time of economic crisis.


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To be fair, she wasn't qualified to run HP either.

[NewYorkDragons80]

I get your point, but this only perpetuates the stereotype that McCain is "out of touch" and doesn't know jack shit about the economy. That could be the overriding message at play here.
As long as we're talking about stereotypes, do you really want a black guy running the economy during a recession? I'm just saying.

That's a joke. Please don't treat it like a real point.

[epo]

Ugh...well, I guess she was smart enough to tie Obama and Biden in, too, but McCain's surrogates do him no favors.

Nothing like pointing out your own candidates aren't qualified to run a business in a time of economic crisis.


Or pointing out that one of the Republican Party's major pitches for the last thirty years is complete bullshit.

So remember, according to Carly Fiorina, a republican politician is not qualified to run a corporation. Keep that in mind when republicans tell you that "we need to run government like a business".

[epo]

As long as we're talking about stereotypes, do you really want a black guy running the economy during a recession? I'm just saying.

That's a joke. Please don't treat it like a real point.

As long as its not Ashy Larry shooting dice in a basement!

http://legacymag.net/ashylarry/ashylarry1.JPG

[K.C.]

As long as its not Ashy Larry shooting dice in a basement!

http://legacymag.net/ashylarry/ashylarry1.JPG


His name is being floated for Head of Health & Human Services.

[thejives]

It's not just that McCain "helped create the BlackBerry." It's the way his advisor said it (http://edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/16/mccain.blackberry/?iref=mpstoryview):

Pressed to provide an example of what McCain had accomplished on that committee, Holtz-Eakin said the senator did not have jurisdiction over financial markets, then he held up his Blackberry, telling reporters: "He did this."

And then the clouds parted and the sun shown down in a pure silver shaft on the BlackBerry. Yes, that great American invention, the BlackBerry, which was developed by Research in Motion (http://www.rim.com/index.shtml), a Canadian company (http://www.rim.com/company/contact/index.shtml).

And the McCain camp backs each other up on this madness:

"He [McCain] would not claim to be the inventor of anything, much less the BlackBerry. This was obviously a boneheaded joke by a staffer," McDonald said.

[DarkHippie]

McCain couldn't invent something he cant figure out. I wonder if his VCR is flashing 12:00

[K.C.]

I wonder if his Betamax is flashing 12:00

Fixed.

[A.J.]

As long as its not Ashy Larry shooting dice in a basement!

http://legacymag.net/ashylarry/ashylarry1.JPG

Deficit? No problem. He can steal money from his chick's purse.

[Jujubees2]

Boy, the old Maverick really has his finger on the pulse of the economy.

He went from saying the he believed the fundamentals of the economy were “strong” to calling the economic situation “a total crisis” and denouncing “greed” on Wall Street and in Washington in just one day!

As recently as January, Mr. McCain argued at a Republican debate that Americans were better off than they were eight years ago; by this summer he had released an advertisement that said “we’re worse off than we were four years ago.”

His first big speech on the mortgage crisis warned against excessive government intervention; a month later he released his plan for government action to help people keep their homes.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/17/us/politics/17mccain.html?hp

[NewYorkDragons80]

Boy, the old Maverick really has his finger on the pulse of the economy.

He went from saying the he believed the fundamentals of the economy were “strong” to calling the economic situation “a total crisis” and denouncing “greed” on Wall Street and in Washington in just one day!

As recently as January, Mr. McCain argued at a Republican debate that Americans were better off than they were eight years ago; by this summer he had released an advertisement that said “we’re worse off than we were four years ago.”

His first big speech on the mortgage crisis warned against excessive government intervention; a month later he released his plan for government action to help people keep their homes.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/17/us/politics/17mccain.html?hp
Do you seriously think the fundamentals of the economy are broken? Seriously? The economy is in the shitter, but fundamentals?

[Ritalin]

Do you seriously think the fundamentals of the economy are broken? Seriously? The economy is in the shitter, but fundamentals?

I think this is an excellent question, and my personal answer is I don't know. What would you consider the fundamentals of the economy to be.

I'm not setting you up here. It's a serious question.

[Jujubees2]

Do you seriously think the fundamentals of the economy are broken? Seriously? The economy is in the shitter, but fundamentals?

No, but they are definitely not STRONG. And if there were, why would McCain backtrack?

[foodcourtdruide]

Do you seriously think the fundamentals of the economy are broken? Seriously? The economy is in the shitter, but fundamentals?

I've been confused by McCain's comments, what exactly are the fundamentals of our economy? If he was referring to a free-market, with government bailing out major corporations I'd certainly disagree with his comments.

What are the fundementals of our economy to you?

[NewYorkDragons80]

I think this is an excellent question, and my personal answer is I don't know. What would you consider the fundamentals of the economy to be.

I'm not setting you up here. It's a serious question.

I think we're looking at a 94% employment rate, 3% GDP growth last quarter, inflation at.1% We're the largest and most powerful economy in the world. Private businesses make most of the decisions and have the flexibility that they do not enjoy in Europe or Japan. This economy is highly diversified and resilient, and those are fundamentals that shouldn't change, nor do I think Obama is honestly looking to change the fundamentals of the economy. Right now we're seeing setbacks in housing and finance, but the larger economy demonstrates that resilience. Yes, we are in a recession, but the long term outlook is strong.

So saying the economy's fundamentals are strong isn't just factually true, but it also aims to reassure investors that this economy is basically sound, but correcting itself. That kind of leadership was interrupted by an opponent who stands to gain from a weak economy, so he drones on about instability.

[NewYorkDragons80]

No, but they are definitely not STRONG. And if there were, why would McCain backtrack?
Not really backtracking. The overall tone of his earlier speech on 16 Sept was that the economy is in bad shape, and the same can be said for the latter speech. He clearly needed to reword it, however, since Obama and Biden keep taking his words out of context.

[epo]

I think there is a major component of the economy that nobody wants to link to the factors because its an admission that we are truly in a global economy: education.

As we continue to de-fund education (since the 80's) we've really done our economy a major disservice. Since we are in a global economy, corporations can literally go anywhere on the planet to find the innovative minds they need to fill their professional-level needs.

That type of need demands talented and top-flight educated workers. Now in this global economy...if we don't wanna educate our workforce to the fullest, somebody else will. In light of the de-valuation of the blue-collar workforce, this is a terrible blow to our economy, which needs to be rectified.

In my opinion, if a political candidate doesn't mention strengthening our schools, greater access to higher education and worker re-training programs...they don't get one of the greatest needs of our "economic fundamentals".

[HBox]

The value of the dollar is a cornerstone of the economy and it is not strong. The economy thrives on entrepreneurship and with the credit market in the shitter I don't see how that could be considered strong either.

[celery]

The Dow, one of the primary economic indicators we have (at least in turms of the stock market), had just plummeted 500 points! To come out and say the "fundamentals of the economy are strong" in ANY context that day is just ridiculous, and he deserved to be called on it.

[NewYorkDragons80]

I think there is a major component of the economy that nobody wants to link to the factors because its an admission that we are truly in a global economy: education.

As we continue to de-fund education (since the 80's) we've really done our economy a major disservice. Since we are in a global economy, corporations can literally go anywhere on the planet to find the innovative minds they need to fill their professional-level needs.

That type of need demands talented and top-flight educated workers. Now in this global economy...if we don't wanna educate our workforce to the fullest, somebody else will. In light of the de-valuation of the blue-collar workforce, this is a terrible blow to our economy, which needs to be rectified.

In my opinion, if a political candidate doesn't mention strengthening our schools, greater access to higher education and worker re-training programs...they don't get one of the greatest needs of our "economic fundamentals".

I think you're right, and neither candidate has put forth anything viable of any real substance. (Seriously, does Obama expect 0-5 education to even get through committee?) We've been banking on brain drain from the developing world for a while now, but as the standard of living in China, India, Persian Gulf, South Africa, etc. rises, we will not be able to rely on it as much as we once did. I know we need to remain competitive on the global scale, but the bigger problem is the feds shoving their nose in the states' business and giving kids a standardized test every 6 months. Focusing on math and science is a fine goal, but it shouldn't be done at the expense of the humanities.

[thejives]

I think you're right, and neither candidate has put forth anything viable of any real substance. (Seriously, does Obama expect 0-5 education to even get through committee?) We've been banking on brain drain from the developing world for a while now, but as the standard of living in China, India, Persian Gulf, South Africa, etc. rises, we will not be able to rely on it as much as we once did. I know we need to remain competitive on the global scale, but the bigger problem is the feds shoving their nose in the states' business and giving kids a standardized test every 6 months. Focusing on math and science is a fine goal, but it shouldn't be done at the expense of the humanities.

What does any of this mean? It's a series of contradictory statements with a dig at head start buried in the beginning.

If you have an agenda for education in America state it. I've taught, and the answer to me is find good teachers and pay them well. I liked Obama standing up for merit pay (http://www.philly.com/philly/news/8335627.html).

[NewYorkDragons80]

What does any of this mean? It's a series of contradictory statements with a dig at head start buried in the beginning.

If you have an agenda for education in America state it. I've taught, and the answer to me is find good teachers and pay them well. I liked Obama standing up for merit pay (http://www.philly.com/philly/news/8335627.html).

It means this generation has been given more standardized tests than any other generation that preceded it, and that's not a good thing. There is an increasing emphasis on math and science while kids aren't learning how to think for themselves. The areas that do not include math and science are know as the humanities. History, music, art, literature, and foreign language all fall under the humanities, and they are increasingly pushed aside to make way for math and science in order to make the school appear stronger for those standardized tests I mentioned earlier. I hope that wasn't too contradictory for you, sir.

How would we find these good teachers and gauge their merit?

[thejives]

It means this generation has been given more standardized tests than any other generation that preceded it, and that's not a good thing. There is an increasing emphasis on math and science while kids aren't learning how to think for themselves. The areas that do not include math and science are know as the humanities. History, music, art, literature, and foreign language all fall under the humanities, and they are increasingly pushed aside to make way for math and science in order to make the school appear stronger for those standardized tests I mentioned earlier. I hope that wasn't too contradictory for you, sir.

I wasn't throwing the gauntlet, sir. I just find it amusing that your economic lynchpin has evolved into "more humanities instruction." Something most democrats would nod at approvingly and even the most centrist republicans would arch their eyebrows at.

After all, this testing regime is the result of Bush's accountability mantra.

How would we find these good teachers and gauge their merit?

Teachers are one of the most assessed and reviewed government professions. There are stacks of yearly evaluation paperwork. Administrators know who their best teachers are. The secretaries know. The parents know.

[Ritalin]

If I can add something to this discussion about education, I think Obama is the only one out there telling people that there is no substitute for parental involvement in a child's education.

[NewYorkDragons80]

I wasn't throwing the gauntlet, sir. I just find it amusing that your economic lynchpin has evolved into "more humanities instruction." Something most democrats would nod at approvingly and even the most centrist republicans would arch their eyebrows at.
It's not an economic lynchpin, it's a response to something epo said. But thanks for outing me for taking an unconventional position. I don't know what that proves, but good job nonetheless.

After all, this testing regime is the result of Bush's accountability mantra.
Bush didn't invent standardized testing, but he certainly made it even more deeply entrenched in the education system. Do you honestly think it's a gotcha to point out that Bush is partly responsible for kids being overtested?

[foodcourtdruide]

Tom Ashbrook's program took a look into education this week. I thought it was a good piece. This is one of the few democratic positions that Obama actually strays from.

http://www.onpointradio.org/shows/2008/09/election-08-issues-education/

[Knowledged_one]

If I can add something to this discussion about education, I think Obama is the only one out there telling people that there is no substitute for parental involvement in a child's education.

This is a given it shouldnt have to be said, it should be implied unfortunately there are groups who think having their kids in the newest clothes and fashion is the best way to care for the kids. Or that school will get you know where when you live in the inner city because your choices are limited

[Dirtybird12]

Records reveal Palin's push for earmarks. (http://deepbackground.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/09/17/1413605.aspx)
Records culled from the archives of the Wasilla, Alaska, city government reveal that Palin was directly involved in soliciting millions of dollars in earmarks for Wasilla when she was mayor. And she got help from a well-connected Washington lobbyist.

[thejives]

but good job nonetheless.

Thanks

[GreatAmericanZero]

I'm really really stupid. What are "earmarks"?

[thejives]

I'm really really stupid. What are "earmarks"?

There something McCain used to think were bad ... until he was told to think they were OK by the people who control him now.

[GreatAmericanZero]

There something McCain used to think were bad ... until he was told to think they were OK by the people who control him now.

um...........so what are earmarks?

[thejives]

um...........so what are earmarks?
I just chose the top slate article (http://www.slate.com/id/2139454/) off google:

No one can agree on the precise definition. In general, the word "earmark" refers to any element of a spending bill that allocates money for a very specific thing—a given project, say, or location, or institution. For example, if Congress passed a budget that gave a certain amount of money to the National Park Service as a whole, no one would consider it an earmark. But if Congress added a line to the budget specifying that some of that money must go toward the preservation of a single building—definitely an earmark.

If this is, indeed, what earmarks are. John McCain wants to save our economy by eliminating them (http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/2008/05/mccains_fantasy_war_on_earmark.html):
John McCain boasts that he can save $100 billion a year "immediately" by eliminating the so-called earmarks that legislators attach to spending bills to finance pet projects, usually in their home state. But he has refused to say exactly which projects he would cut, and his estimates of the amount of money that is being spent on earmarks have been challenged by independent experts.

Not only will he eliminate them, he will shine the harsh light of justice on earmarkers (http://www.alternet.org/workplace/98371/mccain's_phony_earmark_ploy/):
"I got an old ink pen, my friends, and the first pork-barrel-laden earmark, big spending bill that comes across my desk, I will veto it. You will know their names. I will make them famous, and we'll stop this corruption," McCain said at a campaign stop in Washington, D.C., this week.

Of course that doesn't apply to his running mate. You know, same Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin who lobbied for earmarks that McCain specifically criticized (http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-earmarks3-2008sep03,0,2482434.story) before hastily choosing her to be a heartbeat from the presidency:
Three times in recent years, McCain's catalogs of "objectionable" spending have included earmarks for this small Alaska town, requested by its mayor at the time -- Sarah Palin.

So we can add earmarks to the list of things the republican ticket thinks are OK for them to do, but not for you to do. Other things on that list include:

1. give their daughters the right to choose
2. regulate wall street
3. lie

[GreatAmericanZero]

see, this is why the "earmark thing" aint going to make a difference. Its to complicated to understand. Americans like easy stuff..."Hes going to take away our abortions!" "hes going to take away our guns!" "hes going to tax me!"...this is how we vote.

oh yeah, and "I'd like to have a beer with him!"

[thejives]

see, this is why the "earmark thing" aint going to make a difference. Its to complicated to understand. Americans like easy stuff..."Hes going to take away our abortions!" "hes going to take away our guns!" "hes going to tax me!"...this is how we vote.

oh yeah, and "I'd like to have a beer with him!"

I'll have a beer with him after the election when he loses and can go back to being the McCain he was before the party leadership got their claws in him.

Heck. When Obama's president I'm sure they'll both walk around wearing these.
http://www.hatsinthebelfry.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/b636full.jpg

[epo]

In a stupid blurb by Newsweek about the cars owned by the candidates (http://www.newsweek.com/id/160091), Senator McCain comes off rather poorly:

When you have seven homes, that's a lot of garages to fill. After the fuss over the number of residences owned by the two presidential nominees, NEWSWEEK looked into the candidates' cars. And based on public vehicle-registration records, here's the score. John and Cindy McCain: 13. Barack and Michelle Obama: one.

I'm pretty surprised that the Obama campaign was able to define Senator McCain, but goddamn if he hasn't been defined as the "rich, old, white guy"...which is like saying "the same ol', same ol'"

[GreatAmericanZero]

In a stupid blurb by Newsweek about the cars owned by the candidates (http://www.newsweek.com/id/160091), Senator McCain comes off rather poorly:


I'm pretty surprised that the Obama campaign was able to define Senator McCain, but goddamn if he hasn't been defined as the "rich, old, white guy"...which is like saying "the same ol', same ol'"

thats surprising that Obama only has one car though....even my parents had two. I guess they lived in chicago and thats a real metro area, no?

[A.J.]

In a stupid blurb by Newsweek about the cars owned by the candidates (http://www.newsweek.com/id/160091), Senator McCain comes off rather poorly:

When you have seven homes, that's a lot of garages to fill. After the fuss over the number of residences owned by the two presidential nominees, NEWSWEEK looked into the candidates' cars. And based on public vehicle-registration records, here's the score. John and Cindy McCain: 13. Barack and Michelle Obama: one.

I'm pretty surprised that the Obama campaign was able to define Senator McCain, but goddamn if he hasn't been defined as the "rich, old, white guy"...which is like saying "the same ol', same ol'"

McCain has some serious catching up to do to be among the likes of Jay Leno, Jerry Seinfeld...and half the people on "MTV Cribs".

[NewYorkDragons80]

In a stupid blurb by Newsweek about the cars owned by the candidates (http://www.newsweek.com/id/160091), Senator McCain comes off rather poorly:


I'm pretty surprised that the Obama campaign was able to define Senator McCain, but goddamn if he hasn't been defined as the "rich, old, white guy"...which is like saying "the same ol', same ol'"
Wow, this is childish. Neither of these guys walked barefoot to school, will ever need another job, or would turn away a donation from someone who has 13 cars. I thought the debate was getting over the top when people were preparing for an Obama loss by calling his non-supporters racists, but this pseudo-socialistic tone is the most condescending form of campaigning. And yes, it was just as shamelessly populist when Bush used it against Kerry.

[epo]

Wow, this is childish. Neither of these guys walked barefoot to school, will ever need another job, or would turn away a donation from someone who has 13 cars. I thought the debate was getting over the top when people were preparing for an Obama loss by calling his non-supporters racists, but this pseudo-socialistic tone is the most condescending form of campaigning. And yes, it was just as shamelessly populist when Bush used it against Kerry.

It's not campaigning...it's a blurb in Newsweek. And comparing the childhood of Obama vs. McCain is not a winner for you. I'd stay away from it.

My point was that I'm really surprised about how well of a job the Obama campaign has done in defining McCain, despite the fact that McCain is one of the more established "Political brands" in this country. Not surprisingly enough, McCain & Clinton's campaigns were both originally run by Mark Penn's agency. This tells you what a horseshit organization that Mark Penn is running.

[NewYorkDragons80]

It's not campaigning...it's a blurb in Newsweek. And comparing the childhood of Obama vs. McCain is not a winner for you. I'd stay away from it.
Yes and other people are now using the article to pretend it's an issue. If Obama doesn't campaign on this, I'm sure he'll disown anybody from... say... the UAW or any strategist who further propagates the matter on the countless political shows they appear on. Because Obama's against the politics as usual.

As for being childish, are you going to accuse me of being a racist for bringing the word "child" into the discussion? (I mean I'm pretty much already there because I'm not voting for Obama) Or are you talking about McCain's age? Because either one is a losing fight on your end.

[Jujubees2]

Looks like McCain had a staffer in bed with Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26831560 (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26831560/)/

[badmonkey]

Looks like McCain had a staffer in bed with Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26831560 (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26831560/)/

Looks like Obama did too and he was one of the advisers he picked to helped pick Biden.

http://articles.latimes.com/2008/jun/12/nation/na-johnson12

[epo]

It's not campaigning...it's a blurb in Newsweek. And comparing the childhood of Obama vs. McCain is not a winner for you. I'd stay away from it.

My point was that I'm really surprised about how well of a job the Obama campaign has done in defining McCain, despite the fact that McCain is one of the more established "Political brands" in this country. Not surprisingly enough, McCain & Clinton's campaigns were both originally run by Mark Penn's agency. This tells you what a horseshit organization that Mark Penn is running.

Yes and other people are now using the article to pretend it's an issue. If Obama doesn't campaign on this, I'm sure he'll disown anybody from... say... the UAW or any strategist who further propagates the matter on the countless political shows they appear on. Because Obama's against the politics as usual.

As for being childish, are you going to accuse me of being a racist for bringing the word "child" into the discussion? (I mean I'm pretty much already there because I'm not voting for Obama) Or are you talking about McCain's age? Because either one is a losing fight on your end.

What the fuck did race have a damned thing to do with this discussion?

All I said was comparing the childhood of McCain & Obama was a bad thing for the McCain camp/supporters.

[Jujubees2]

Looks like Obama did too and he was one of the advisers he picked to helped pick Biden.

http://articles.latimes.com/2008/jun/12/nation/na-johnson12

We already knew that. McCain's people were harping on the fact that Obama had ties to the former Fannie Mae chairman (http://www.boston.com/news/politics/politicalintelligence/2008/09/mccain_hits_oba_7.html) without checking out their own camp. And I would say that being on payroll to help defend the companies from stricter regulations is a little diferent than getting advice from a former chairman.

[badmonkey]

We already knew that. McCain's people were harping on the fact that Obama had ties to the former Fannie Mae chairman (http://www.boston.com/news/politics/politicalintelligence/2008/09/mccain_hits_oba_7.html) without checking out their own camp. And I would say that being on payroll to help defend the companies from stricter regulations is a little diferent than getting advice from a former chairman.

Are you really saying that being a lawyer hired to help defend against stricter regulation is worse than being the chairman being defended?

Seriously?

Fannie Mae reported paying bonuses in 1998 to Johnson, who received $1.932 million
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A21138-2004Dec22.html

From 1991 to 1998, he served as chairman and chief executive officer of the Federal National Mortgage Association (Fannie Mae), the quasi-public organization that guarantees mortgages for millions of American homeowners. Previously, he was vice chairman of Fannie Mae (1990-1991) and a managing director with Lehman Brothers (1985-1990). An Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight (OFHEO) report[1] from September 2004 found that, during Johnson's tenure as CEO, Fannie Mae had improperly deferred $200 million in expenses. This enabled top executives, including Johnson and his successor, Franklin Raines, to receive substantial bonuses in 1998.[2] A 2006 OFHEO report[3] found that Fannie Mae had substantially under-reported Johnson's compensation. Originally reported as $6-7 million, Johnson actually received approximately $21 million.

On May 22, 2008, Democratic Party officials confidentially divulged that Obama had asked Johnson "to lead the process" for selecting Obama's running mate.[4] On June 4, 2008, Obama announced the formation of a three person committee to vet vice presidential candidates, including Johnson.[5] However, Johnson soon became a source of controversy when it was reported that he had received loans directly from Angelo Mozilo, the CEO of Countrywide Financial, a company implicated in the U.S. subprime mortgage crisis.[6] Although he was not accused of any wrongdoing and was initially defended by Obama on the grounds that he was simply an unpaid volunteer, Johnson announced he would step down from the vice-presidential vetting position on June 11, 2008 in order to avoid being a distraction to Obama's campaign. [7]

Johnson is a strong Obama supporter who has personally donated the maximum $4,600 to his 2008 Presidential campaign, as well as $1,000 to Obama's Senate campaign in 2004.[8] In addition to personal donations, Johnson is a bundler for the Obama campaign, raising between $200,000 and $500,000.[9]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_A._Johnson_(businessman)#Career

Is that the change Obama keeps talking about?

[NewYorkDragons80]

What the fuck did race have a damned thing to do with this discussion?

All I said was comparing the childhood of McCain & Obama was a bad thing for the McCain camp/supporters.
LANGUAGE! :laugh: I said childish and you told me to be careful. That could be interpreted as a dig at McCain's age, or it could be a warning that any use of "child" in reference to the Obama campaign is inherently racist. Judging by the consensus that's building amond Obama's supporters here (http://www.ronfez.net/forums/showthread.php?t=71274&page=51), I didn't make an overly cautious move.

[Jujubees2]

Are you really saying that being a lawyer hired to help defend against stricter regulation is worse than being the chairman being defended?

Seriously?


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A21138-2004Dec22.html




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_A._Johnson_(businessman)#Career

Is that the change Obama keeps talking about?

Don't you understand the hypocrisy of the whole thing? McCain people laying into Obama for being associated with Johnson when their own campiagn manager was making $30K a month for five years to defend Fannie Mae against stricter regulation? I agree that Johnson is a big part of the problem but this is another example of the McCain camp running their mouths without doing any background checking of their own.

Is this the change John McCain keeps talking about?

[angrymissy]

Oh, COME ON!

At the insistence of the McCain campaign, the Oct. 2 debate between the Republican nominee for vice president, Gov. Sarah Palin, and her Democratic rival, Senator Joseph R. Biden Jr., will have shorter question-and-answer segments than those for the presidential nominees, the advisers said. There will also be much less opportunity for free-wheeling, direct exchanges between the running mates.

McCain advisers said they had been concerned that a loose format could leave Ms. Palin, a relatively inexperienced debater, at a disadvantage and largely on the defensive.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/21/us/politics/21debate.html

[Recyclerz]

Oh, COME ON!

At the insistence of the McCain campaign, the Oct. 2 debate between the Republican nominee for vice president, Gov. Sarah Palin, and her Democratic rival, Senator Joseph R. Biden Jr., will have shorter question-and-answer segments than those for the presidential nominees, the advisers said. There will also be much less opportunity for free-wheeling, direct exchanges between the running mates.


http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/21/us/politics/21debate.html


Hey, she's a Girl AND she wears glasses.
Of course we have to change the rules. :wink:

[Jujubees2]

Hey, she's a Girl AND she wears glasses.
Of course we have to change the rules. :wink:

But she's a hockey mom who shoots moose. I thought they were tough?

[Recyclerz]

But she's a hockey mom who shoots moose. I thought they were tough?

Ralph Waldo Emerson said "...Consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds." And especially small Democratic minds at that.

Gov. Palin is so tough that she is both for earmarks and pork barrel spending and against them. She is so for women's rights that she can take them away when she needs to.

If you can't see that Gov. Palin is God's hand-picked messenger to deliver the US of A* from all things bad and liberal (sorry for the redundancy) then you sir just don't get it.

:innocent:

* She supports the U part as longs as she wins. If not, ol' Todd might have rejoin the Alaska Independence Party again.

[HBox]

This article is a perfect summation of the McCain campaign as it relates to the media. (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0908/13747.html)

[thejives]

I know a Governor reading "global financial crises for dummies" right now...

[scottinnj]

I know a Governor reading "global financial crises for dummies" right now...

Swing and a miss.

[thejives]

I know a sexy librarian trying to fashion a Biden shaped voodoo doll out of moose hair.

[scottinnj]

I know a sexy librarian trying to fashion a Biden shaped voodoo doll out of moose hair.

Now that's a funny! :clap:

[thejives]

I know a Tina Fey look alike who's so confused she thinks she won Emmy's last night.

[scottinnj]

Greedy. No more laughs for you!

[thejives]

I know a former Wasilla basketball star driving furiously to the westernmost tip of Alaska to stare the hell out of Russia before friday.

[mikeyboy]

Is "I know a..." thejives' new bit? Kinda like a message board version of "...you might be a redneck"

[thejives]

I know a poster named thejives who can't let a bit go.

[GreatAmericanZero]

Is "I know a..." thejives' new bit? Kinda like a message board version of "...you might be a redneck"

Let is be known!

[foodcourtdruide]

Let is be known!

I wonder what the guy who really doesn't know anything about the economy has to say about this.

[Recyclerz]

George Will gets his shots in on McCain, bringing up the temperment issue.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/22/AR2008092202583.html

Anybody else think that Obama's team is prepping him to elicit a Jack Nicholson "You can't handle the Truth!!" moment out of McCain in the debates?

[epo]

Don't you understand the hypocrisy of the whole thing? McCain people laying into Obama for being associated with Johnson when their own campiagn manager was making $30K a month for five years to defend Fannie Mae against stricter regulation? I agree that Johnson is a big part of the problem but this is another example of the McCain camp running their mouths without doing any background checking of their own.

Is this the change John McCain keeps talking about?

Fresh off the press!

McCain Aide’s Firm Was Paid by Freddie Mac (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/24/us/politics/w24davis.html?_r=2&hp=&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&adxnnlx=1222227799-6I39EqLILV8WtxnSoNXn9w)

WASHINGTON — One of the giant mortgage companies at the heart of the credit crisis paid $15,000 a month from the end of 2005 through last month to a firm owned by Senator John McCain’s campaign manager, according to two people with direct knowledge of the arrangement.

The disclosure undercuts a statement by Mr. McCain on Sunday night that the campaign manager, Rick Davis, had had no involvement with the company for the last several years.

Sorry John...that deal you signed with the Bush disciples is gonna kill you.

[NickyL0885]

Why is it that people talk about Bidens gaffes and not the fact that Palin still hasn't had a press conference nor an interview? I mean, Obama needs to hit on that. If McCain is so confident in her, then let her answer some questions!.

[epo]

Why is it that people talk about Bidens gaffes and not the fact that Palin still hasn't had a press conference nor an interview? I mean, Obama needs to hit on that. If McCain is so confident in her, then let her answer some questions!.

Today is DAY 27 without a press conference!

[angrymissy]

LOLZOLOZLZOLZOZLZZOZXOFKODSJFGLKSJFLKDsjf

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/09/24/mccain-suspends-campaign-to-help-with-bailout/

John McCain asked the Presidential Debate Commission on Wednesday to postpone Friday’s scheduled debate with Barack Obama so that he can work on the financial crisis bailout plan now on Capitol Hill.

YOU

GOTTA

BE

KIDDING

ME

[celery]

LOLZOLOZLZOLZOZLZZOZXOFKODSJFGLKSJFLKDsjf

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/09/24/mccain-suspends-campaign-to-help-with-bailout/

John McCain asked the Presidential Debate Commission on Wednesday to postpone Friday’s scheduled debate with Barack Obama so that he can work on the financial crisis bailout plan now on Capitol Hill.

YOU

GOTTA

BE

KIDDING

ME

He's suspending his entire campaign!!

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/09/24/mccain-suspends-campaign-to-help-with-bailout/

[angrymissy]

And conveniently, he plans to have this all worked out by Monday

“I am confident that before the markets open on Monday we can achieve consensus on legislation that will stabilize our financial markets"

JUST ENOUGH TIME TO POSTPONE THE DEBATE!

Is ANYONE FALLING FOR THIS CRAP?

[Ritalin]

How could one even tell that he'd stopped campaigning?

[foodcourtdruide]

This story is weird. It looks like such grandstanding by McCain. Why wouldn't he just meet with Obama and say, "hey this is a significiant event, let's stop campaigning until it's resolved"? He should have done this the minute Paulson proposed the $700 Billion bail out.

Instead, he waited a few days into it and issued an open challenge to Obama to stop his campaign because he's stopping his. What bullshit. This was a WWE style tactic.

This is such a political move and I'm so sick of it. Nothing in this race is real.

[celery]

And conveniently, he plans to have this all worked out by Monday

“I am confident that before the markets open on Monday we can achieve consensus on legislation that will stabilize our financial markets"

JUST ENOUGH TIME TO POSTPONE THE DEBATE!

Is ANYONE FALLING FOR THIS CRAP?

Not Obama: http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/09/mccain-not-comm.html

McCain also canceled his planned appearance Wednesday on CBS' "Late Show With David Letterman" program.

Yeah, it's probably a bad time to awkwardly try to be relaxed and funny.

[epo]

This story is weird. It looks like such grandstanding by McCain. Why wouldn't he just meet with Obama and say, "hey this is a significiant event, let's stop campaigning until it's resolved"? He should have done this the minute Paulson proposed the $700 Billion bail out.

Instead, he waited a few days into it and issued an open challenge to Obama to stop his campaign because he's stopping his. What bullshit. This was a WWE style tactic.

This is such a political move and I'm so sick of it. Nothing in this race is real.

And mind you that Obama did his last campaign stop on Monday for the week prior to the debates. This was scheduled awhile ago.

Asking Obama to stop campaigning right now is like asking King Hippos to eat bacon. Just silly and pointless.

But wait...I thought that the fundamentals of our economy were strong? So why would you need to cancel a debate because of it?

[K.C.]

Wow, this is ridiculously funny.

[foodcourtdruide]

Wow, this is ridiculously funny.

Apparently Obama called McCain about issuing a joint-statement regarding what pieces of any legislation they would agree with, McCain called him back at 2:30 (I'm assuming EST, since he's in FLA) and they spoke and agreed on issuing a joint-statement. McCain bought up possibly canceling debate/suspending election and Obama said something to the effect of: let's get this joint-statement out and then we'll discuss it. By 4:00pm McCain announced to the press he wanted to cancel the debate and suspend his election and encouraged Obama to do the same.

Obama's main point is that a President should be able to multi-task important issues and now, more than ever would be the best time to have a debate.

I don't know how the American public will interpret this.

[HBox]

There are some things that when put in contrast with this financial crisis are frivolous enough to warrant a delay. A debate on the future of this country is not one of them.

And if this isn't bullshit, which it most obviously is, why stop now? This shits been going on for over a week now. They've already done most of the work in Washington getting this bill done! Hell, he's not even stopping now, he announced he's stopping TOMORROW! What the hell John? Have you somehow divined into the future, finding the exact moment when campaigning would not be appropriate, and you just called a press conference today to grace us with your prophetic vision?!

I've absolutely had it with this man. He's shown no seriousness whatsoever this entire campaign. His campaign slogan should be "Always in the appearance of Country First, actually ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME." It's so bad at this point I seriously wonder whether he'd be a competent President, and whatever he had done in his campaign up to now I could never really imagine him being incompetent.

[HBox]

Just how much of a transparently cynical douche bag is John McCain? (http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0908/A_nonemergency_meeting.html)

The McCain campaign's new urgency about the financial crisis didn't entirely clear his schedule this morning.

My colleague Amie Parnes reports that he made it to his scheduled morning meeting with Lady Lynn de Rothschild, a Clinton backer who recently came out in support of him.

All while Obama was waiting by the phone for a returned call.

[NewYorkDragons80]

Why would this phase Obama? So far, he's excelled at not debating.

[Ritalin]

Why would this phase Obama? So far, he's excelled at not debating.

Hey, Obama isn't the one trying to dodge the debate.

This is from Drudge. Seems Letterman is pissed that McCain cancelled on him:

EXCLUSIVE: LETTERMAN MOCKS MCCAIN CANCELLATION
Wed Sep 24 2008 17:41:58 ET

David Letterman tells audience that McCain called him today to tell him he had to rush back to DC to deal with the economy.

Then in the middle of the taping Dave got word that McCain was, in fact just down the street being interviewed by Katie Couric. Dave even cut over to the live video of the interview, and said, "Hey Senator, can I give you a ride home?"

Earlier in the show, Dave kept saying, "You don't suspend your campaign. This doesn't smell right. This isn't the way a tested hero behaves." And he joked: "I think someone's putting something in his metamucil."

"He can't run the campaign because the economy is cratering? Fine, put in your second string quarterback, Sara Palin. Where is she?"

"What are you going to do if you're elected and things get tough? Suspend being president? We've got a guy like that now!"

[HBox]

From everything I've heard this deal was just about done before McCain announced this. So if anything goes wrong I'm blaming him for injecting himself into this so much beyond what is necessary and polarizing this for the sake of his own campaign. Country First my fucking ass. Of course he demonstrated he didn't care at all what would happen to this country should his VP have to take over so this is just par for the course I suppose.

[thejives]

So let me get this straight.

McCain says he's stopping advertising, but they won't be able to pull ads immediately (http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/09/24/1443815.aspx).

McCain says he's meeting with economists, but he swings by Lady Lynn Forester de Rothschild (http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/09/24/1443629.aspx).

And, for no apparent reason, if the bailout isn't approved by Friday, McCain wants to debate instead of Palin (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/09/24/mccain-camp-to-propose-postponing-vp-debate/).

So a lot of directives are issued that aren't being followed and there'll be no payoff. That's great leadership in a trying time ... that you didn't acknowledge existed until three days ago.

[celery]

From everything I've heard this deal was just about done before McCain announced this. So if anything goes wrong I'm blaming him for injecting himself into this so much beyond what is necessary and polarizing this for the sake of his own campaign. Country First my fucking ass. Of course he demonstrated he didn't care at all what would happen to this country should his VP have to take over so this is just par for the course I suppose.

Yes, this is a calculated political move, and so far seems to be blowing up in his face. I'll definitely be tuning in to Letterman tonight.

[epo]

McCain's claim not to want a debate on Friday is a farce in my opinion. This personally erodes every bit of credibility the man had left.

[brettmojo]

Letterman rules.

[thejives]

It makes no sense.

Everything these candidates say on the stump has more influence than anything they'll be doing on the Senate floor in person. Doesn't he realize he has people to do that for him?

It's just insane.

[epo]

McCain is in a no-win situation here.

Senator McCain wants to cancel the debate, Senator Obama said he's going. Here is the situation now for McCain with this move:


If he doesn't show up, he "doesn't want to debate".
If he does show up, he "can't make up his mind" and "got out maneuvered" by the man he is calling inexperienced.


I've said it before, but McCain has the worst advisers on the damned planet.

[thejives]

Maybe he can ask that they postpone the election until everything's OK.

[GreatAmericanZero]

McCain is in a no-win situation here.

Senator McCain wants to cancel the debate, Senator Obama said he's going. Here is the situation now for McCain with this move:


If he doesn't show up, he "doesn't want to debate".
If he does show up, he "can't make up his mind" and "got out maneuvered" by the man he is calling inexperienced.


I've said it before, but McCain has the worst advisers on the damned planet.

seriously, i don't understand the strategy of asking for a debate delay.

He comes across as scared

Yes, there seems to be a serious financial crisis. But shouldn't that mean its even MORE important to debate so we can choose a president? There are people in charge NOW to handle that stuff....debate and let the voters choose which one will be the best to pick up the problem and solve it. I can't think of anything more priority than this debate

[HBox]

Maybe he can ask that they postpone the election until everything's OK.

Well, if you think about it by doing this McCain is saying "This economy focus is really killing me so if you don't mind can we call a time out on the campaign until it's fixed? Please? Pretty please?"

[epo]

seriously, i don't understand the strategy of asking for a debate delay.

He comes across as scared

Yes, there seems to be a serious financial crisis. But shouldn't that mean its even MORE important to debate so we can choose a president? There are people in charge NOW to handle that stuff....debate and let the voters choose which one will be the best to pick up the problem and solve it. I can't think of anything more priority than this debate

AND it furthers Obama's argument that McCain is "out of touch".


McCain first claimed that the "fundamentals" of our economy are solid.
Obama then claims that we have an economic problem.
McCain's people then rip Obama for "scaring" the voters.
McCain then wants to delay a presidential debate to help the economy.


This maneuvering makes McCain look crazy and inconsistent.

Worst advisers ever.

[thejives]

Well, at least he has an ace running mate.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Vbg6hF0nShQ&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Vbg6hF0nShQ&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Ouch...

[epo]

Plus McCain is still scheduled to speak (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/24/AR2008092402250.html)at the Clinton Global Initiative tomorrow.......

Maverick my ass.

[GreatAmericanZero]

palin answering questions just reminds me of this:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/lj3iNxZ8Dww&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/lj3iNxZ8Dww&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[thejives]

Plus McCain is still scheduled to speak (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/24/AR2008092402250.html)at the Clinton Global Initiative tomorrow.......

Maverick my ass.

Well of course... the best way for a maverick to solve a financial crisis is to associate yourself with the most recent democratic president whose wife's voters he'd like to steal.

[HBox]

Well, at least he has an ace running mate.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Vbg6hF0nShQ&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Vbg6hF0nShQ&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Ouch...

I didn't think it could get worse then that awkward pause at the beginning, but holy shit that got worse at the end.

"But he's also known as the maverick."

WHAT THE HELL KIND OF ANSWER IS THAT?

[thejives]

I didn't think it could get worse then that awkward pause at the beginning, but holy shit that got worse at the end.

"But he's also known as the maverick."

WHAT THE HELL KIND OF ANSWER IS THAT?

It's called thinking on your feet in Alaska.

[GreatAmericanZero]

I didn't think it could get worse then that awkward pause at the beginning, but holy shit that got worse at the end.

"But he's also known as the maverick."

WHAT THE HELL KIND OF ANSWER IS THAT?

whatever happened to all those republicans that support everything republicans do on this site? I want to hear a defense of how she came off as good

it will probably be "it was obviously edited..liberal media! argh!"

[SatCam]

katie couric is a cunt. nice!!!!!!

[GreatAmericanZero]

ok - serious question time

who would u rather fuck, palin or couric?

I gotta think about this. Palin looked her hottest at the RNC, but since then shes kinda looks frumpy (maybe she is wearing less makeup to be more serious or something)

[scottinnj]

I think McCain's call to "delay" the debate is a mistake. It's the topic at hand that needs to be debated, and Americans have a short time to decide who is qualified for these kinds of situations.

He may be sincere, but I think there is more politics involved in this then what he has said.

[GreatAmericanZero]

AP

Obama rebuffs McCain's call to delay debate

NEW YORK - The economic crisis and raw politics threatened to derail the first presidential debate as John McCain challenged Barack Obama to delay Friday's event to work on the financial crisis. Obama rebuffed the plea, saying presidents need to "deal with more than one thing at once."
ADVERTISEMENT

The White House rivals maneuvered Wednesday to claim the leadership role in resolving the economic turmoil that has overshadowed their campaign. Obama said he would continue preparing for the debate and consulting with bailout negotiators and Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson. McCain said he would stop all campaigning and return to Washington on Thursday to work toward a bipartisan solution.

"This is exactly the time when the American people need to hear from the person who, in approximately 40 days, will be responsible for dealing with this mess," Obama said in Clearwater, Fla. "It's going to be part of the president's job to deal with more than one thing at once."

But McCain said they must focus on a bipartisan solution as the Bush administration's $700 billion bailout proposal seemed headed for defeat. If not, McCain said ominously that credit will dry up, jeopardizing home sales, individual savings and company payrolls.

"I do not believe that the plan on the table will pass as it currently stands, and we are running out of time," McCain said.

Both candidates accepted President Bush's invitation to attend a White House meeting Thursday afternoon with congressional leaders in hopes of agreeing on a rescue plan. McCain had spoken with Bush earlier Wednesday and requested such a meeting.

In a joint statement Wednesday night, the candidates said the country faces "a moment of economic crisis" and they called for political unity to solve it because "the jobs, savings and the prosperity of the American people are at stake." Both said Bush's plan was "flawed."

"We cannot risk an economic catastrophe," they said.

Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., McCain's representative in debate negotiations, told The Associated Press that McCain will not attend the debate unless there is agreement on a solution that is publicly endorsed by Obama, McCain, the White House and congressional leaders.

Asked whether the debate could go on, Obama spokesman Robert Gibbs said: "My sense is there's going to be a stage, a moderator, an audience and at least one presidential candidate."

The jockeying between McCain and Obama began after the senators spoke privately Wednesday.

McCain beat Obama to the punch with the first public statement. The surprise announcement was an attempt to outmaneuver Obama on an issue McCain trails on and as the Democrat gains in the polls. McCain went before TV cameras minutes after they spoke and before the campaigns could hammer out the agreed-upon joint statement.

Obama, too, made a political calculation by rejecting McCain's challenge while still trying to appear on top of the problem. Obama repeatedly stressed that he called McCain first to propose a joint statement. He said McCain called back several hours later and agreed, but also said he wanted to postpone the debate and hold joint meetings in Washington. Obama said he suggested they first issue the statement.

"When I got back to the hotel, he had gone on television to announce what he was going to do," Obama said.

McCain said he would return to Washington on Thursday after an address to former President Clinton's Global Initiative session. He canceled a scheduled appearance on CBS' "The Late Show with David Letterman" and a meeting with India's prime minister.

McCain called Senate Democratic leader Harry Reid and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi to propose that joint meetings with Obama and congressional leaders be held quickly, according to leadership aides. Reid spokesman Jim Manley said Reid responded by reading McCain his public statement, in which Reid said it would not be helpful for the candidates to come back and inject presidential politics into the negotiations.

Reid later told reporters that McCain "is trying to divert attention from his failing campaign."

Debate planners said they were continuing to prepare for the event at the University of Mississippi.

McCain's running mate, Sarah Palin, was canceling her limited campaign events. She told the "CBS Evening News" that the country could be headed for another Great Depression if Congress doesn't reach a solution.

How long the suspension would last, McCain adviser Steve Schmidt would not say.

McCain has struggled with how to handle the situation, which he might escape with modest political damage if he and Obama can reach some type of accord on the matter.

Scores of congressional Republicans hinted this week that they may oppose the $700 billion proposal, and Reid pointedly suggested that Democrats could not be expected to back it if McCain did not publicly do so.

That leaves McCain with two unpalatable choices. He can oppose a major Republican initiative the administration says is needed to prevent a full-blown recession, and risk blame if the prediction comes true. Or he can vote for an extraordinarily costly bailout, which many Americans seem to resent, just when polls show him falling farther behind Obama.

Obama also risks voter wrath if he supports the bailout. But he could frame his stand as bipartisan statesmanship, whereas McCain's vote could be spun as another example of him siding with Bush, a major impediment to his campaign.



Good for Obama. He made the right statement

[PhilDeez]

AP




Good for Obama. He made the right statement

A link probably would have nailed your point without the headache of scrolling through the entire article.
Maybe he did make a good point, maybe not. I think alot of America is going to look at this as McCain trying to do the job he is paid to currently do. Neither is president, rather senators. One who wants to do his part to make an impact for the country in dire times, and one who would rather run for president.

[GreatAmericanZero]

A link probably would have nailed your point without the headache of scrolling through the entire article.


sorry that you had to read an article. must've been a horrible thing for you

[PhilDeez]

sorry that you had to read an article. must've been a horrible thing for you

Wasn't a horrible thing. It would have been great if you actually were breaking something news worthy, rather than copying the lead story for the last few hours on every news outlet and posting it like a hot get.

[Al Davis]

It was probably logistically impossible, but Obama really should have done something to get on Letterman tonight, even if it was just a satellite linkup.

The McCain campaign is imploding. I think Bush fucked them, really. The rage over the response to Wall Street fucking up and giving deadbeats a shitload of bad debt being a $700 billion blank check that adds no new oversight or regulation (but does give the former CEO of Goldman Sachs unprecedented power over the economy) will, I think, recharge the electorate and make voters more determined to make sure that we don't get more of the same shit.

Oops, I'm logged in as my board character. Embarassing.

[AKA]

A link probably would have nailed your point without the headache of scrolling through the entire article.

How is scrolling through an article on an internet message board a "headache"?

Jesus - I remember when Republicans had brass balls and tough hides - I doubt William Buckley ever once complained of a migrane from reading an article on a message board.

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/02vhfZWfUtcBo/340x.jpg

[HBox]

A link probably would have nailed your point without the headache of scrolling through the entire article.
Maybe he did make a good point, maybe not. I think alot of America is going to look at this as McCain trying to do the job he is paid to currently do. Neither is president, rather senators. One who wants to do his part to make an impact for the country in dire times, and one who would rather run for president.

Seeing as McCain hasn't voted on anything since April, and the bill is almost done anyway, the negotiating has been ongoing led by other congressional leaders who know what they are doing, it's yet another meaningless, grandstanding political stunt.

Oh wait, we're not talking about what we think about this. We are talking about what "a lot of America" thinks about it. Those other stupid people someplace else.

Do they even know how to read?

[PhilDeez]

How is scrolling through an article on an internet message board a "headache"?

Jesus - I remember when Republicans had brass balls and tough hides - I doubt William Buckley ever once complained of a migrane from reading an article on a message board.

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/02vhfZWfUtcBo/340x.jpg

Wow, you are right. The P stands for put your hands out and eat a dick. My point was he posted this huge article, one that had been the lead story for hours on all news outlets, like it was this great find.

[celery]

A link probably would have nailed your point without the headache of scrolling through the entire article.
Maybe he did make a good point, maybe not. I think alot of America is going to look at this as McCain trying to do the job he is paid to currently do. Neither is president, rather senators. One who wants to do his part to make an impact for the country in dire times, and one who would rather run for president.

Since receiving his party's nomination, his job is to present himself to the American people, so we can make an informed choice over who to elect into the most powerful position in the free world for the next four years. There are 98 other Senators who can step in the meantime.

McCain knows this, and "suspending his campaign" is all part of his campaign.

[PhilDeez]

Seeing as McCain hasn't voted on anything since April, and the bill is almost done anyway, the negotiating has been ongoing led by other congressional leaders who know what they are doing, it's yet another meaningless, grandstanding political stunt.

Oh wait, we're not talking about what we think about this. We are talking about what "a lot of America" thinks about it. Those other stupid people someplace else.

Do they even know how to read?

First, the bill is not done yet, has yet to be voted on, etc. Second, lets not start with voting records.
When I said alot of America, it was in reference to another post about all the hayseeds failing in line with Hannity. I was just making a point that both are going to be seen as heros by their respective party.

[HBox]

First, the bill is not done yet, has yet to be voted on, etc. Second, lets not start with voting records.
When I said alot of America, it was in reference to another post about all the hayseeds failing in line with Hannity. I was just making a point that both are going to be seen as heros by their respective party.

Fair enough. It is a bit rich though for McCain to take to take credit for going to Washington to do his job. There's no job for him to do other than vote. Other people are writing the bill, negotiating and such. He and Obama were going to come down and vote on this anyway.

And a tentative deal was reached. I wouldn't be surprised if it's announced tomorrow after Bush meets with McCain and Obama. (http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/paulson-senate-dems-reach-tentative-bailout-deal-2008-09-24.html)

[thejives]

Oops, I'm logged in as my board character. Embarassing.

Sue Bender ... is that you?

[Recyclerz]

It's called thinking on your feet in Alaska.

I think she's a ringer brought in to make affirmative action programs look bad. :wacko:

[NewYorkDragons80]

Obama rebuffed the plea, saying presidents need to "deal with more than one thing at once."
This is the guy who refused to do town hall debates because he needed time to adjust from running for president to... running for president.

[epo]

This is the guy who refused to do town hall debates because he needed time to adjust from running for president to... running for president.

You seriously aren't defending this move by the McCain campaign?

[thejives]

And now McCain has taken the town hall argument away as well, because he's trying to cancel existing debates.

The maverick way to campaign is to make arguments and then shatter them with blatant hypocrisy.

[NewYorkDragons80]

And now McCain has taken the town hall argument away as well, because he's trying to cancel existing debates.

The maverick way to campaign is to make arguments and then shatter them with blatant hypocrisy.
can·cel /ˈkænsəl/ , -celed, -cel·ing or (especially British) -celled, -cel·ling, noun
–verb (used with object)
1. to make void; revoke; annul: to cancel a reservation.
2. to decide or announce that a planned event will not take place; call off: to cancel a meeting.

post·pone /poʊstˈpoʊn, poʊs-/
–verb (used with object), -poned, -pon·ing.
1. to put off to a later time; defer: He has postponed his departure until tomorrow.

Yes, I am defending it. It would be inappropriate to debate foreign policy when the economy is teetering on the edge of collapse Something needs to coerce Congress out of skipping town and ensuring proper oversight of this cash.

[HBox]

Yes, I am defending it. It would be inappropriate to debate foreign policy when the economy is teetering on the edge of collapse Something needs to coerce Congress out of skipping town and ensuring proper oversight of this cash.

They have been negotiating almost non-stop all week. In fact it's just about done. No one needed to be coerced. This was pretty much done before he even announced this. Everything you want to make sure happens is already happening. And even if it wasn't why is McCain waiting until tomorrow afternoon?

And Jim Lehrer, moderator of the Friday debate, told each candidate LAST WEEK that he would be asking questions about the economy as well and each candidate accepted that. Of course Lehrer wasn't going to ignore the economy in a time like this.

[epo]

A Colorado McCain spokesperson accidentally (http://coloradoindependent.com/9151/oops-colorado-mccain-camp-sends-internal-e-mail-to-reporters) sent his official talking points about the campaign suspension to his media contacts. A copy of the talking points are here. (http://coloradoindependent.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/mccaintalkingpoints.jpg)

Seriously...I feel its 1915 and I'm watching the Keystone Cops.

[YourAmishDaddy]

Let it crash. Let it burn.

That's what i say.

[foodcourtdruide]

whatever happened to all those republicans that support everything republicans do on this site? I want to hear a defense of how she came off as good

it will probably be "it was obviously edited..liberal media! argh!"

I'm waiting for someone to blame Bill Clinton for this. What were Hannity's talking points for the debate issue? I'm sure they'll be echoed here in some way.

[angrymissy]

can·cel /ˈkænsəl/ , -celed, -cel·ing or (especially British) -celled, -cel·ling, noun
–verb (used with object)
1. to make void; revoke; annul: to cancel a reservation.
2. to decide or announce that a planned event will not take place; call off: to cancel a meeting.

post·pone /poʊstˈpoʊn, poʊs-/
–verb (used with object), -poned, -pon·ing.
1. to put off to a later time; defer: He has postponed his departure until tomorrow.

Yes, I am defending it. It would be inappropriate to debate foreign policy when the economy is teetering on the edge of collapse Something needs to coerce Congress out of skipping town and ensuring proper oversight of this cash.

Ok, what do you think about the fact that McCain wants to hold the postponed debate on the date the VP debate would have been held, thus putting THAT debate off? It's a little convenient that he wants the debates rescheduled in such a way that Palin will have more time to prepare...

[Jujubees2]

Maybe he can ask that they postpone the election until everything's OK.

I remember September of 2001. New York City was gearing up for a mayoral election but on the 11th something big happened in the city. As much as King Rudy wanted to delay the November elections (so he could stay in power), it didn't happen and you know what? The elections went on as planned.

[angrymissy]

McCain camp to propose postponing VP debate
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/09/25/mccain-camp-to-propose-postponing-vp-debate-2/

Again. How. Fucking. Convenient.

And...

http://www.reason.com/blog/show/129016.html

McCain pulled this exact, same, stop the campaign business back in '99.

[NewYorkDragons80]

Ok, what do you think about the fact that McCain wants to hold the postponed debate on the date the VP debate would have been held, thus putting THAT debate off? It's a little convenient that he wants the debates rescheduled in such a way that Palin will have more time to prepare...

Palin's lack of exposure has been scary/disappointing, but that's a disproportionate risk to take to get Palin a couple of extra days to plan. I've seen the video of the Alaska gubernatorial debates. Even if she tiptoes and says nothing the way she has in her interviews, all she has to do is not be a drag on the ticket. It's a pretty big risk to take for a relative side project like a VP debate, no matter how old McCain is or how inexperienced Palin is on foreign policy.

[angrymissy]

Palin's lack of exposure has been scary/disappointing, but that's a disproportionate risk to take to get Palin a couple of extra days to plan. I've seen the video of the Alaska gubernatorial debates. Even if she tiptoes and says nothing the way she has in her interviews, all she has to do is not be a drag on the ticket. It's a pretty big risk to take for a relative side project like a VP debate, no matter how old McCain is or how inexperienced Palin is on foreign policy.

You could be the first McCain supporter I have seen admit that there is a problem with Palin's lack of exposure, thank you for being honest. Considering they have done all they can to restrict access to her, I personally see this as another way of keeping her mouth shut.

From your point of view, why does McCain need to cancel the debates at all? They can work on the economic issue and still work in a 2 hour debate...

[foodcourtdruide]

Palin's lack of exposure has been scary/disappointing, but that's a disproportionate risk to take to get Palin a couple of extra days to plan. I've seen the video of the Alaska gubernatorial debates. Even if she tiptoes and says nothing the way she has in her interviews, all she has to do is not be a drag on the ticket. It's a pretty big risk to take for a relative side project like a VP debate, no matter how old McCain is or how inexperienced Palin is on foreign policy.

I see your point on it being a disproportionate risk, but I don't know if I agree. Especially after seeing the Katie Couric interview, it's clear that this person is not ready. She could really make a fool of herself in the debates.

Would you say that selecting Palin was a political move that is backfiring for McCain? There is no way McCain thought she was the best person for the job. I just can't believe that.

[angrymissy]

I don't know as much about up-and-comers in the GOP, but surely there had to be other women (if they specifically wanted a woman) who could have been chosen who were a bit more seasoned?

[A.J.]

I don't know as much about up-and-comers in the GOP, but surely there had to be other women (if they specifically wanted a woman) who could have been chosen who were a bit more seasoned?

Senators Olympia Snowe and Susan Collins from Maine were considered...but they're Northeast Republicans which means they wouldn't fly with the hayseeds. Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison of Texas was considered too I think...but the GOP and Texas hasn't done too well over the last decade. Ask Dubya, Dick Armey and Tom DeLay about that.

[NewYorkDragons80]

You could be the first McCain supporter I have seen admit that there is a problem with Palin's lack of exposure, thank you for being honest. Considering they have done all they can to restrict access to her, I personally see this as another way of keeping her mouth shut.

From your point of view, why does McCain need to cancel the debates at all? They can work on the economic issue and still work in a 2 hour debate...

It could be a way of keeping her mouth shut, but again, I've seen her debate and just based on sheer toughness and competence (at least perceived competence just so I don't set off a 5 page debate on that), she's nobody's fool. They were either 1) Spooked by the reaction to the Gibson and Couric interviews or 2) Keeping her under wraps so that her debate skills are more effective from a PR standpoint when they are displayed to the whole country.

I don't think it would be in the best interest of the economy if the debate deadline is playing a role in how the bill is negotiated.

[NewYorkDragons80]

I see your point on it being a disproportionate risk, but I don't know if I agree. Especially after seeing the Katie Couric interview, it's clear that this person is not ready. She could really make a fool of herself in the debates.

Would you say that selecting Palin was a political move that is backfiring for McCain? There is no way McCain thought she was the best person for the job. I just can't believe that.

The only person I can think of who would've brought this much energy is Bobby Jindal. I don't think it's backfiring, but they need to counter the criticism by putting her out there. They won't win unless they allow her more exposure to the media. I'm totally confident that she can take the heat if she makes herself available.

[angrymissy]

I can understand picking her to bring energy to the campaign, that worked. But is she competent to run the country if something happens to McCain? That should have been factored in as well. If she can't handle Katie Couric, how is she going to handle Iran?

[Ritalin]

It could be a way of keeping her mouth shut, but again, I've seen her debate and just based on sheer toughness and competence (at least perceived competence just so I don't set off a 5 page debate on that), she's nobody's fool. They were either 1) Spooked by the reaction to the Gibson and Couric interviews or 2) Keeping her under wraps so that her debate skills are more effective from a PR standpoint when they are displayed to the whole country.

I don't think it would be in the best interest of the economy if the debate deadline is playing a role in how the bill is negotiated.

In all sincerity, her interview with Couric made her look like a fool. Her answers about McCains reforms and Alaska's proximity to Russia were pretty bad.

[HBox]

Examples of McCain's "leadership": (http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/09/mccains_surprise.php)

During the White House meeting, it appears that Sen. John McCain had an agenda. He brought up alternative proposals, surprising and angering Democrats. He did not, according to someone briefed on the meeting, provide specifics.

One the proposals -- favored by House Republicans -- would relax regulation and temporarily get rid of certain taxes in order to lure private industry into the market for these distressed assets.

That approach has been rejected by Senate Democrats, Senate Republicans and, to this point, the White House. During the meeting, according to someone briefed on it, Sec. Henry Paulson told those assembled that the approach was not workable.

Before the White House meeting, Democrats and Senate Republicans were on track to get legislation to the floor by tomorrow. Democrats say that, at best, they hope for half of Republicans in the House to go along. At worst, the vote in the House becomes partisan and then Senate Republicans get shaky and then...

As of 6:30, as the Corner notes, Fox's Carl Cameron notes that the mood on Capitol Hill is "remarkably sour."

Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell said in a statement that "it's clear that more progress is needed and we must continue to work together quickly to protect our economy."

Country First. Leadership.

What a complete fucking farce this man has become. I wouldn't want him taking out my garbage at this point.

Seriously, he's had TWO important decisions to make thus far in the campaign, and in both he has been recklessly impulsive with a desire of only of furthering his own personal agenda with indifference at best and contempt at worst for the business of running government. I can't stand this sight of him at this point.

[thejives]

Nice blog, Hbox.
I like the concept!
:thumbup:

[scottinnj]

It's a scan my sister emailed me-so if you're interested in reading it, click here (http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o217/themarshal/McCainlikeQueenofHeartsbyGWill.jpg) or hopefully the image will be clear enough below:

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o217/themarshal/McCainlikeQueenofHeartsbyGWill.jpg

[HBox]

And while McCain and the House Republicans play games Washington Mutual falls. (http://money.cnn.com/2008/09/25/news/companies/JPM_WaMu/index.htm?postversion=2008092519)

JPMorgan Chase & Co. is close to a deal to acquire most of the operations of beleaguered thrift Washington Mutual Inc., according to a report Thursday in the Wall Street Journal.

JPMorgan (JPM, Fortune 500) has scheduled an investors conference call for 9:15 p.m. ET.

Federal regulators have helped broker the deal, the Journal reported.

[KnoxHarrington]

If this whole fiasco of John McCain storming onto Capitol Hill to try to fix things doesn't convince everyone that he is not suited to be President, then fuck this country. Fuck it in the mouth.

[HBox]

Here's the Republican's "counterproposal," and I use the term loosely. (http://www.politico.com/blogs/thecrypt/0908/As_deal_drifts_House_GOP_releases_alternative.html )

* Rather than providing taxpayer funded purchases of frozen mortgage assets, we should adopt a mortgage insurance approach to solve the problem.

* Currently the federal government insures approximately half of all mortgage backed securities. (MBS) We can insure the rest of current outstanding MBS; however, rather than taxpayers funding insurance, the holders of these assets should pay for it. Treasury Department can design a system to charge premiums to the holders of MBS to fully finance this insurance.

* Have Private Capital Injection to the Financial Markets, Not Tax Dollars. Instead of injecting taxpayer capital into the market to produce liquidity, private capital can be drawn into the market by removing regulatory and tax barriers that are currently blocking private capital formation. Too much private capital is sitting on the sidelines during this crisis.

* Temporary tax relief provisions can help companies free up capital to maintain operations, create jobs, and lend to one another. In addition, we should allow for a temporary suspension of dividend payments by financial institutions and other regulatory measures to address the problems surrounding private capital liquidity.

*Immediate Transparency, Oversight, and Market Reform. Require participating firms to disclose to Treasury the value of their mortgage assets on their books, the value of any private bids within the last year for such assets, and their last audit report.

* Wall Street Executives should not benefit from taxpayer funding. Call on the SEC to review the performance of the Credit Rating Agencies and their ability to accurately reflect the risks of these failed investment securities.

*Create a blue ribbon panel with representatives of Treasury, SEC, and the Fed to make recommendations to Congress for reforms of the financial sector by January 1, 2009.

In other words, they've learned nothing or are prepared to ride their own ideology into the ground.

McCain meanwhile, maverick superhero POW ultra leader he is, has forgone endorsing any proposal and instead is sitting on the sidelines tsk tsking everybody.

John McCain's campaign put out an extraordinary memo just now, denouncing a proposal that, by all accounts, was supported by all parties but the House Republicans, promising to return tomorrow, and casting the debate in serious doubt.

Says the memo from press secretary Brian Rogers:

Despite today's news reports, there never existed a "deal," but merely a proposal offered by a small, select group of Members of Congress. As of right now, there exists only a series of principles, including greater oversight and measures to address CEO pay. However, these principles do not enjoy a consensus in Congress.

Lies? Check.

Hypocrisy? Check.

Extreme cynicism? Check.

Exploiting a national crisis? Check.

Wonderful man.

[epo]

If this whole fiasco of John McCain storming onto Capitol Hill to try to fix things doesn't convince everyone that he is not suited to be President, then fuck this country. Fuck it in the mouth.

Fuck McCain. After this incident he has no pants.

[Recyclerz]

Here's the Republican's "counterproposal," and I use the term loosely. (http://www.politico.com/blogs/thecrypt/0908/As_deal_drifts_House_GOP_releases_alternative.html )



In other words, they've learned nothing or are prepared to ride their own ideology into the ground.

McCain meanwhile, maverick superhero POW ultra leader he is, has forgone endorsing any proposal and instead is sitting on the sidelines tsk tsking everybody.



Lies? Check.

Hypocrisy? Check.

Extreme cynicism? Check.

Exploiting a national crisis? Check.

Wonderful man.


What HBox said. We are in serious trouble of this whole thing getting so far off the rails we will never get it back. I suspect, unless there is a deus ex machina overnight, tomorrow is going to be a very ugly day on the financial markets.

Now I am going to curl up in a fetal position under the covers and listen to my radio buddays and hope this is all a bad dream. :glurps:

[HBox]

What HBox said. We are in serious trouble of this whole thing getting so far off the rails we will never get it back. I suspect, unless there is a deus ex machina overnight, tomorrow is going to be a very ugly day on the financial markets.

Now I am going to curl up in a fetal position under the covers and listen to my radio buddays and hope this is all a bad dream. :glurps:

The only question now is what WON'T McCain sell out to further his agenda. He's already sold out the economy and the Office of the Vice Presidency and possibly the Presidency itself.

Between this and WaMu the stock market will be a fucking blood bath tomorrow. I can only hope if that happens that the first thing that goes is Cindy's beer distributorship.

[angrymissy]

I never thought I would say this, but Mike Huckabee is making a lot of sense:

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/09/26/huckabee-calls-mccain-debate-ploy-a-huge-mistake/

Huckabee said he still backs McCain’s candidacy, but said the Arizona senator should not have put his campaign on hold to deal with the financial crisis on Wall Street. He said a president must be prepared to “deal with the unexpected.”

“You can’t just say, ‘World stop for a moment. I’m going to cancel everything,”‘ Huckabee said.

[Zorro]

I'm no genius, but the last time this administration pushed a "crisis" 4,000 Americans and countless Iraqis died.

I'm also no fan of the Republicans, but when I read this quote from CNBC. I thought hey what's wrong with that.The group of conservative lawmakers wants the government to offer insurance coverage for the roughly half of all mortgage-backed securities that it does not already insure.

Lawmakers critical of the Paulson deal are concerned that freewheeling bankers will get off too lightly, and doubt whether the plan can solve the wider credit crisis.


http://www.cnbc.com/id/26895236

If there's an alternative then why are we bailing out these assholes that lost all the money in the first place? I was also shocked to find out it was Barney Frank that blocked the original regulation of Fanni/Freddi in 2003.

[oldladyfacepuncher]

The Republican proposal also calls for further deregulation and more tax breaks for the companies that created this whole mess. Brilliant.

[celery]

Letterman's not letting this go:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/25/letterman-attacks-mccain_n_129467.html

[angrymissy]

Now he says he'll be at the debate?

Flip-Flop?

Letting our country down?

I thought there was too much important work to be done to debate?

Or was it the polls....

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/daily_presidential_tracking_poll

[Zorro]

The Republican proposal also calls for further deregulation and more tax breaks for the companies that created this whole mess. Brilliant.

So, giving tax breaks which they may not use is worse than giving them 700 billion. Am I missing something.

[Jujubees2]

So, giving tax breaks which they may not use is worse than giving them 700 billion. Am I missing something.

Technically the government is not giving them the money. They are using it to buy the bad loans which the government can then resell (and maybe even make money but that is doubtful).

[Zorro]

Technically the government is not giving them the money. They are using it to buy the bad loans which the government can then resell (and maybe even make money but that is doubtful).

OK...I understand that & I understand that the thrift bailout of days yore cost the gov't much less than expected, but isn't there a way to put these companies on the hook for their losses and not the taxpayer? ...and again maybe I'm jaded, but when I hear Bush and Crisis in the same sentence I'm a little skeptical.

[epo]

OK...I understand that & I understand that the thrift bailout of days yore cost the gov't much less than expected, but isn't there a way to put these companies on the hook for their losses and not the taxpayer? ...and again maybe I'm jaded, but when I hear Bush and Crisis in the same sentence I'm a little skeptical.

In my humble opinion the worst part is the de-regulation part of the bill. It was the original deregulation that caused a portion of this problem...so we're going to provide more of that?

Insanity.

[HBox]

OK...I understand that & I understand that the thrift bailout of days yore cost the gov't much less than expected, but isn't there a way to put these companies on the hook for their losses and not the taxpayer? ...and again maybe I'm jaded, but when I hear Bush and Crisis in the same sentence I'm a little skeptical.

So you aren't seeing the illogic in thinking that the answer to a credit crunch is to offer creditors more credit?

[foodcourtdruide]

Now he says he'll be at the debate?

Flip-Flop?

Letting our country down?

I thought there was too much important work to be done to debate?

Or was it the polls....

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/daily_presidential_tracking_poll

I hate these freaking polls. I don't see it as being conceivable that 6% of people changed their minds. Polling reminds me sooo much of Saturday NFL predictions.

[celery]

Now he says he'll be at the debate?

Flip-Flop?

Letting our country down?

I thought there was too much important work to be done to debate?

Or was it the polls....

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/daily_presidential_tracking_poll

Why bother showing up? He's already won!

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/thefix/2008/09/mccain_wins_debate.html

[epo]

Not only was Senator McCain always going to go to the debate, but this morning he had an ad in the online version of the Wall Street Journal claiming it. From the Washington Post:

McCain Wins Debate (http://voices.washingtonpost.com/thefix/2008/09/mccain_wins_debate.html?nav=rss_blog)

Although the fate of tonight's presidential debate in Mississippi remains very much up in the air, John McCain has apparently already won it -- if you believe an Internet ad an astute reader spotted next to this piece in the online edition of the Wall Street Journal this morning.

"McCain Wins Debate!" declares the ad which features a headshot of a smiling McCain with an American flag background. Another ad spotted by our eagle-eyed observer featured a quote from McCain campaign manager Rick Davis declaring: "McCain won the debate-- hands down."

Link to screen shot. (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/images/26Sep_Friday_WSJ.JPG)

Do I even need to comment on the bullshit level on this whole thing?

[Zorro]

So you aren't seeing the illogic in thinking that the answer to a credit crunch is to offer creditors more credit?

Yeah I'm dumb like that....

BTW...got a few bucks to spare?

[HBox]

Yeah I'm dumb like that....

BTW...got a few bucks to spare?

thought I'd have a few, but then McCain came to Washington.
:furious:

[Zorro]

thought I'd have a few, but then McCain came to Washington.
:furious:

Johnny came marching home...hurrah...hurrah...Johnny came marching and emptied my pockets...hurrah...hurrah...

[KnoxHarrington]

Here's the thing: this was McCain's big moment to look "Presidential", to come charging in and straighten this mess up, but it ends up looking like, at best, he didn't help at all, and may have fucked things up more.

I agree with Ronnie's assertation that white people won't vote for Obama to this regard: it's the only rational explanation I can come up with for why this isn't a 20% blowout for Obama yet.

[GreatAmericanZero]

Here's the thing: this was McCain's big moment to look "Presidential", to come charging in and straighten this mess up, but it ends up looking like, at best, he didn't help at all, and may have fucked things up more.

I agree with Ronnie's assertation that white people won't vote for Obama to this regard: it's the only rational explanation I can come up with for why this isn't a 20% blowout for Obama yet.

yeah but hopefully mccain will stink so much that the racists will just stay home that day

[TheMojoPin]

Someone needs to Photoshop McCain into this:

http://www.upgradetravelbetter.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/grandpa-simpson-shakes-fist-at-cloud.jpg

[HBox]

http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/7677/grandpasimpsonshakesfisug2.jpg

[scottinnj]

Just promise me one thing. Once McCain loses, he'll settle back in to his old self again. Please forget he ever ran, and treat him like the respectful old "maverick" he once was.


Sort of like Bob Dole. Remember how cool he used to be? Then he ran for president, and got all douchey and shit. But he's back to normal, and a real nice guy.

[epo]

Just promise me one thing. Once McCain loses, he'll settle back in to his old self again. Please forget he ever ran, and treat him like the respectful old "maverick" he once was.

Sort of like Bob Dole. Remember how cool he used to be? Then he ran for president, and got all douchey and shit. But he's back to normal, and a real nice guy.

The moment he starts acting like McCain circa 2000, then he deserves to be treated as such.

[thejives]

And Hammond works overtime with a debate sketch:

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His voice is dead on. I think they need more jowl, though.

[AKA]

Just promise me one thing. Once McCain loses, he'll settle back in to his old self again. Please forget he ever ran, and treat him like the respectful old "maverick" he once was.


Sort of like Bob Dole. Remember how cool he used to be? Then he ran for president, and got all douchey and shit. But he's back to normal, and a real nice guy.

Dole always had the "hot head" image, not to mention was a bit of an a-hole before 1996 and Elizabeth was often too often too much of a GOP hack for Bush - that said, even in 1996, I liked Dole. He was out of touch, but he came from a generation of politician that got along with those across the isle. A very classy group, imo. And he was very cool after 1996, making commercials poking fun at himself, and doing the rounds of charity and good work.

With McCain - I want to like the guy again, but the road to place we are now with him has been a lot longer than this primary season. The cuddling up with the Bush crowd after everything that happened in 2000. I really can't stand the man - in his autobiography, when he wrote about 2000, he basically admitted to bullshitting the religious right just to get their votes, and had hoped the media and the public would see the winks and nods. Just bullshit. And since then - the lies and more lies, and then impulsively picking Palin - I will have a hard time getting over that one, much like I have a hard time getting over Republicans for nominating Bush 8 years ago. But that's just me.

[epo]

McCain camp prays for Palin wedding (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/us_elections/article4837644.ece)

In an election campaign notable for its surprises, Sarah Palin, the Republican vice- presidential candidate, may be about to spring a new one — the wedding of her pregnant teenage daughter to her ice-hockey-playing fiancé before the November 4 election.

Inside John McCain’s campaign the expectation is growing that there will be a popularity boosting pre-election wedding in Alaska between Bristol Palin, 17, and Levi Johnston, 18, her schoolmate and father of her baby. “It would be fantastic,” said a McCain insider. “You would have every TV camera there. The entire country would be watching. It would shut down the race for a week.”

Could they be raising to the lowest common denominator any faster?

[scottinnj]

The moment he starts acting like McCain circa 2000, then he deserves to be treated as such.

There's a post in your Brewers thread-ignore it. It's from my good twin from Earth II, which on Earth I makes him a drunk asshole.

[KnoxHarrington]

McCain camp prays for Palin wedding (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/us_elections/article4837644.ece)



Could they be raising to the lowest common denominator any faster?

I will volunteer to bang Bristol and let her white trash boyfriend catch me doing it to stop this.

Gotta do what I can to help out.

[KnoxHarrington]

Memo to the McCain campaign: you might not want to release statements bragging about how you got the bailout deal done before it actually is, you know, done.

John McCain, in a campaign rally this morning, took credit for the resolution and claimed Obama "was on the sidelines". McCain said he, McCain, was pivotal.

Via Think Progress:

"[T]his bill would not have been agreed to had it not been for John McCain. ... But, you know, this is a bipartisan accomplishment, a bipartisan success. And if people want to get something done in Washington, they just watch John McCain." — Former Massachusetts governor Mitt Romney, 9/29/08

"Earlier in the week, when Senator McCain came back to Washington, there had been no deal reached. ... What Senator McCain was able to do was to help bring all the parties to the table, including the House Republicans." — Senior adviser Steve Schmidt, 9/28/08

"But here are the facts, and I’m not overselling anything. The fact is that the House Republicans were not in the mix at all. John didn’t phone this one in. He came and actually did something. ... You can’t phone something like this in. Thank God John came back." — Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC), 9/28/08

"Before John McCain suspended his campaign yesterday, the situation that we’re looking at today looked very different then. After he showed leadership and called for bipartisanship, for us to partisanship aside and tackle this solution head on, here we are." — Spokesman Tucker Bounds, 9/25/08


In fact, it's looking more and more like McCain's getting the blame for its failure, that his "campaign suspension" gimmick last week poisoned the debate. That might be unfair in a lot of ways, but McCain is the one who's inviting that sort of talk.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/9/29/14471/2074/774/614513

[GreatAmericanZero]

so i have a question for the folks who read this stuff

is the whole "John McCain is a Maverick" tagline appealing to the American people? I know hes a little behind, but are people like, when talking about McCain "well at least hes a Maverick"

Recently McCain has stepped up his use of "Maverick" term like he has tourettes and i don't understand why thats an appeal. I never thought "Maverick" and "Presidential" go together

[thejives]

Recently McCain has stepped up his use of "Maverick" term like he has tourettes and i don't understand why thats an appeal. I never thought "Maverick" and "Presidential" go together

Yeah. It's like saying:
"This is a time of terrible uncertainty and crisis. I'm a loose cannon. There's no telling what I'll do. Put me in charge."

[GreatAmericanZero]

Yeah. It's like saying:
"This is a time of terrible uncertainty and crisis. I'm a loose cannon. There's no telling what I'll do. Put me in charge."

i think its just Dorky. He is overusing the phrase. He said that about Palin "shes a bit of a Maverick too"...who gives a fuck? The word means nothing anymore

[PhilDeez]

i think its just Dorky. He is overusing the phrase. He said that about Palin "shes a bit of a Maverick too"...who gives a fuck? The word means nothing anymore

I'll admit, as a McCain supporter, I think it is overused, and will go as far as you and call it "dorky".
I would agree the majority of the American electorate knows why he was, hopefully is still, considered a maverick.

[epo]

Yesterday, Senator McCain was interviewed by the editorial board of the Des Moines Register and it looked like this:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/kHcPXfgD4jM&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/kHcPXfgD4jM&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Folks we are getting very, very close to Mount McCain. Come on John...you can do it!

[thejives]

That was really interesting to me, because he seems really isolated from the real world by his angry advisers. How can he honestly say that the American people are embracing Sarah Palin? She has the lowest favorables of any ticket candidate, and she's the butt of every late night comedian. His own proponents don't think she's qualified. He spends a lot of time with a lot of lobbyists telling him a lot of lies.

[GreatAmericanZero]

Yesterday, Senator McCain was interviewed by the editorial board of the Des Moines Register and it looked like this:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/kHcPXfgD4jM&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/kHcPXfgD4jM&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Folks we are getting very, very close to Mount McCain. Come on John...you can do it!

wow the famous mccain temper is coming out

[angrymissy]

Yesterday, Senator McCain was interviewed by the editorial board of the Des Moines Register and it looked like this:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/kHcPXfgD4jM&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/kHcPXfgD4jM&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Folks we are getting very, very close to Mount McCain. Come on John...you can do it!

I CAN'T WAIT

[ChrisBrown]

That was really interesting to me, because he seems really isolated from the real world by his angry advisers. How can he honestly say that the American people are embracing Sarah Palin? She has the lowest favorables of any ticket candidate, and she's the butt of every late night comedian. His own proponents don't think she's qualified. He spends a lot of time with a lot of lobbyists telling him a lot of lies.

American loves Palin. Seriously, those of us living in the Northeast or California don't understand the rest of the country. Have you seen the polls in which Americans were asked about Obama and a huge percentage say they won't vote for a Muslim? Middle America loves Palin and feels even more strongly about her when that liberal bitch Katie Couric beats up on her. The fact that David Letterman and those other liberals from Hollyweird make fun of her makes them love Palin even more. How did Bush win in 2004? The majority of Americans would rather have a beer with him than Kerry and Kerry is white. McCain and Palin will easily beat Obama, mark my words. The sad truth is the majority of Americans are not very bright.

[A.J.]

The sad truth is the majority of Americans are not very bright.

I've been saying that for years.

[HBox]

McCain attempts to slam Biden, fails miserably, claims FDR never spoke to Americans on TV. (http://politicalwire.com/archives/2008/10/02/now_mccain_gets_his_history_wrong.html)

This morning on Fox News, Sen. John McCain tried to slam Sen. Joe Biden by saying at least Gov. Sarah Palin knows President Franklin Roosevelt "didn't talk to the American people over television."

I guess Biden's gaffes are contagious.

[epo]

McCain pulling out of Michigan (http://www.politico.com/blogs/jonathanmartin/1008/McCain_pulling_out_of_Michigan.html?showall)

John McCain is pulling out of Michigan, according to two Republicans, a stunning move a month away from Election Day that indicates the difficulty Republicans are having in finding blue states to put in play.

McCain will go off TV in Michigan, stop dropping mail there and send most of his staff to more competitive states, including Wisconsin, Ohio and Florida. Wisconsin went for Kerry in 2004, Ohio and Florida for Bush.

A McCain aide confirmed the move and chalked it up to the state's Democratic tilt and the resources Obama had put in place there.

"It was always a long shot for us to win," said the aide.

A very bad sign for Camp McCain.

[SnuggleBug]

I've been saying that for years.

Both you and Bill Mahr

[AKA]

McCain attempts to slam Biden, fails miserably, claims FDR never spoke to Americans on TV. (http://politicalwire.com/archives/2008/10/02/now_mccain_gets_his_history_wrong.html)



I guess Biden's gaffes are contagious.

I caught just a little bit of him on Fox - the interviewer set him up by saying how so many of his supporters want him to go on the attack, and would he consider it now - even saying something close to "I know it's against your nature..."

I flipped it off immediately. Uggggggh.

Just go away, John. Just go the fuck away.

[epo]

McCain's new campaign strategy is to question everything about Obama and to call him crazy Muslim! Take a look at this from today:

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If you notice after McCain asks "Who is the real Barack Obama?" a member of the audience yells out "terrorist!" I guess my initial response is a bit of surprise, then followed by disappointment. Not at the member of the audience, but rather Senator McCain.

You see, despite my great differences with Senator McCain, I always kinda liked the guy in the 1990s. I loved watching him snap a quick answer to a reporter or read an appropriations bill on the floor of the Senate in disgust. That was a man that we could all identify with on some level.

When I first heard the "terrorist" remark, I wasn't surprised that Senator McCain let it go...and that is a shame. In the 1990's, McCain would have stopped and barked at the guy, then pointed out that Senator Obama is a good man but they have differences.

Maybe it's the national stage, maybe it's the advisers, maybe it's the "last chance" at the brass ring, but he isn't that man anymore. The shame is that this is how America is going to remember John McCain..as a desperate, old man and that's a kind of a tragedy in many ways.

At least Bob Dole went out with his dignity.

[brettmojo]

Maybe it's the national stage, maybe it's the advisers, maybe it's the "last chance" at the brass ring, but he isn't that man anymore. The shame is that this is how America is going to remember John McCain..as a desperate, old man and that's a kind of a tragedy in man ways.

At least Bob Dole went out with his dignity.
Exactly.

[NickyL0885]

I just hope the American people dont buy into this crap. Does McCain honestly think we can sweep the economy issue under the rug for the next month? The economy is THE issue this election year. Negative attack ads can back fire. People want to here a positive message.

[mikeyboy]

FWIW, Rolling Stone's less than flattering piece on McCain (http://www.rollingstone.com/news/coverstory/make_believe_maverick_the_real_john_mccain)

[Jujubees2]

FWIW, Rolling Stone's less than flattering piece on McCain (http://www.rollingstone.com/news/coverstory/make_believe_maverick_the_real_john_mccain)

Wait a minute, I think I like The Maverick now

"What the hell are you going to Rio for?"

McCain, a married father of three, shrugs.

"I got a better chance of getting laid."

[scottinnj]

FWIW, Rolling Stone's less than flattering piece on McCain (http://www.rollingstone.com/news/coverstory/make_believe_maverick_the_real_john_mccain)

Third paragraph in, author is totally disqualified from debate:

There's a distance between the two men that belies their shared experience in North Vietnam — call it an honor gap. Like many American POWs, McCain broke down under torture and offered a "confession" to his North Vietnamese captors. Dramesi, in contrast, attempted two daring escapes. For the second he was brutalized for a month with daily torture sessions that nearly killed him. His partner in the escape, Lt. Col. Ed Atterberry, didn't survive the mistreatment. But Dramesi never said a disloyal word, and for his heroism was awarded two Air Force Crosses, one of the service's highest distinctions. McCain would later hail him as "one of the toughest guys I've ever met."

Mr. Dickinson, may I see your DD214? Or is this the left's attempt to be like the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth? (A bunch of dishonest pigs)

[high fly]

I just hope the American people dont buy into this crap. Does McCain honestly think we can sweep the economy issue under the rug for the next month? The economy is THE issue this election year. Negative attack ads can back fire. People want to here a positive message.



I am hoping that in the next debate, Obama confronts McCain with the following quote from the 2000 race:

"I will not take the low road to the highest office in the land!"





.

[thejives]

McCain is forfeiting his legacy.
That's a loss for this country.

[Sinestro]

McCain is forfeiting his legacy.
That's a loss for this country.

Why do you say that? He did pretty good tonight.

[thejives]

Why do you say that? He did pretty good tonight.

Um... no.
He didn't. And he doesn't sound good on the trail either.
I wish we could remember the 2000 McCain. alas.

[K.C.]

I think in retrospect, the fatal mistake of this campaign for John McCain will be him not following his gut instinct and picking Joe Lieberman as his VP, and instead caving to the shadow masters of the party and picking Palin.

It crippled him in so many ways

1) Choosing Lieberman would have been the ultimate in symbolism of divorcing himself George Bush. Whenever Obama spouted the 'Bush/McCain' lines, all he'd have to do is say "Hey, I picked a guy who ran against him."

2) Palin killed any and all moderate/socially liberal credentials that McCain had, thus costing him in states like New Hampshire, New Mexico, and Nevada.

3) Lieberman would have bolstered McCain's candidacy in Florida immensely (a state McCain is now fighting for his life in) and made Pennsylvania much more competitive.

4) It would have curtailed the backlash that all Republicans are feeling in wake of the economic crisis. He could have touted Lieberman's liberal economic credentials and worked a great populist message of 'a Democrat and a Republican coming together to produce an Independent solution to this crisis.'

5) It would have kept him from having to forfeit the experience argument, which he did when he picked Palin.

6) The Palin gaffes have crushed McCain in the long run.

7) Could have thrown a state like Connecticut into play to where Obama may have to burn time there.


McCain shot himself in the foot.