Lost: Season 5

[Aggie]

Amazing episode. This show is getting better every week! It makes me happy. :)

When they first showed young Danielle shooting her team I thought she had actually gone nuts and shot them for no reason, then they showed her baby daddy almost kill her. Interesting. I loved that they showed the music box also.



If Ben is playing him, then Ben really must be working in opposition of Jacob and the island at this point, which would explain why his advice, of everyone going back, is directly contrary to the warnings that Kate received about bringing back Aaron, and Jin received about bringing back either Sun or Ji-Yeon or both.


It's reasonable to assume that Kate's dream of Claire saying, "don't you bring him back Kate," is referring to Aaron but I'm keeping my mind open. They said HE in that instance and Charlotee said HER, that could be anyone one of the survivors.

[disneyspy]

the show is so great that if i could only watch one hour of tv a week it would easily be 9 to 10,wednesday night ABC,i think sun's baby is safe cuz it wasn't born on the island.i also think ben put the island on track in present time(2007) when he put it back on track

[Doctor Manhattan]

The reveal of Mrs. Hawkings as Faraday's mother was a bit silly. Who didn't think that was who she was long before last night?

Ben.

Don't believe anything he says (verbal or otherwise)

[PD]

French man's arm comes off! And there we have the arm that Vincent came onto the beach with in Season 1. Might have been the first or second episode.
.
I loved that- I listen to the audio podcast. Over the past few years people have occasionally asked "what happened to Montand's arm?" - now we know...

The setting of the date of the ending of this show has allowed it to do what most shows can't- tie in all sorts of stuff in logical manner.

I'm really enjoying this season so far.

[disneyspy]

im pretty sure the arm vincent had came from ben's dad cuz it had a rabbits foot keychain in it that hurley used to start that van

[Grendel_Kahn]

(ahem...)
From season 5, ep 1 comments:






ahem, part 2:



It was raining in a lot of scenes, and Ben's van had "Canton Ranier" on it.
I thought maybe it was just a Vaughan joke that it can not be rainier... or maybe just chance, or something even better... any theories?

Speaking of rain... how funny was it when Sawyer yelled "THANK YOU GOD!!" then after the flash says, "I take that back!"

I am loving everything about this season!

Its an anagram for reincarnation. Remember...everything means SOMETHING

[K.C.]

the show is so great that if i could only watch one hour of tv a week it would easily be 9 to 10,wednesday night ABC,i think sun's baby is safe cuz it wasn't born on the island.i also think ben put the island on track in present time(2007) when he put it back on track

Ji-Yeon was conceived on the island, though. In some ways, that could make her more important than Aaron.

I just think it'd be a Lost-esque twist that Charlotte was talking about the baby when everyone is suppose to believe it's Sun.




In terms of what I'm most interested in, out of this episode, it's the first thing I mentioned...did Ben steal Locke's destiny, and somehow alter time in doing so?

If Locke had followed Jacob's plan at the Orchid the first time, how would things have turned out differently with Locke off-island and Ben leading the people on the island, and will we ever come to understand some of the repercussions of the switch?

I'm very, very interested in this notion that Ben stole Locke's life...and that has the potential to make him more evil than he's looked at any point so far.

[Drunky McBetidont]

we got to see more of the smoke monster and see its lair.
we got to see the french woman's history.
we got to see jacob.
we got to see who faraday's mom was.
we are somehow left with more unanswered questions.
amazing.

aaron is the chosen one. it all comes back to the psychic telling claire that she had to raise the baby.

[instrument]

The only person who said that whoever moves the island can't return is ben, so why does everyone believe it to be true?

And isn't charlotte a few years too young to have been annie? Doesn't charlotte have sisters?

It's funny how they adapted a fan theory as the purpose of the "smoke monster" on the island.

And are we safe to assume that is the temple that the alpere took his others? And if so do they live in close proximity to it?

Also, why is it christian shephard appearing to locke? Most times the island choses someone from that persons life, but christian and locke don't seem to have a connection....

[K.C.]

aaron is the chosen one. it all comes back to the psychic telling claire that she had to raise the baby.

It depends on what you mean by that.

I do think that we'll get a glimpse of Aaron as a future leader on the island. But is he the lynchpin of this whole thing? Meh....I still think that Jack will ultimately decide the fate of everything.

I know it's been referenced like 800 times since Season 1 by people, but I still like the biblical analogy for this...Jack will lead them to the cusp...Aaron will lead them once they return to the promised land.




But to diverge for a minute.

I was thinking about the Walt storyline today. And I wonder if Walt will be explained, as ultimately jumping through time. Let's look at three incidents.

#1 - Walt grabs Locke's arm in Season 1 and tells him 'don't open it, Mr. Locke' in reference to the hatch, which he knew nothing about at the time. Did Walt's mind become 'unstuck' similar to Desmond and he jumped back to that point from the future to warn Locke not to open the hatch?

#2 - Walt's two appearances to Shannon in Season 2. Could this have been Walt jumping through time similar to the way Sawyer and Juliet have right now? Maybe Walt was trying to warn Shannon, but since it is impossible to alter time (unless you're Desmond), it came out backwards. In fact, that could be an explanation for ALL the backwards talking that's appeared in the series.

#3 - Walt's appearance to Locke in Season 3 at the mass grave. This is obviously a future Walt who jumps back in time to tell Locke what he must do.


All of this seems to suggest that Walt will return to the island at some point in the future, and that events will play out in some cyclical manner where the island will be dislodged again.


And lastly...remember Harper's appearance in Season 4 to warn Juliet to kill Daniel and Charlotte? Obviously a jump from the future. Don't be surprised if she shows back up.


Lastly, did Ben knowingly dislodge the Island causing all this to happen? I was under the impression, after watching Locke and Christian last week, that the island could have been moved more smoothly but that Ben may have purposely knocked it off its axis.

Just more evilness. :devil2:

[instrument]

Yeah, I get the feeling that ben is somehow holding jacob hostage, and locke was a ruse by jacob when his true target has always been Jack.

Locke wasn't who alpere was looking for originally and never will be.

[SP1!]

If all this turns out to be aliens I am going to be fucking pissed

[WampusCrandle]

If all this turns out to be aliens I am going to be fucking pissed

.... it's aliens .....

[TonyStark]

I'm going to be very pissed if this turns into a storyline that is somehow related into Star Trek.

[johnniehardrock]

Its an anagram for reincarnation. Remember...everything means SOMETHING

Did anyone else notice the only visible name of a boat in the dock scene was Illusion. They put so much shit in there.

[Coach_Mac]

What about the radio frequency Danielle's group is picking up when they first get to the island? It sounds like the computer numbering off a message just like the one Danielle ends up leaving. But she hasn't left it yet when we hear this.
Has someone else left a message or is it her message they are hearing?
Or am I just reaching?

[WampusCrandle]

What about the radio frequency Danielle's group is picking up when they first get to the island? It sounds like the computer numbering off a message just like the one Danielle ends up leaving. But she hasn't left it yet when we hear this.
Has someone else left a message or is it her message they are hearing?
Or am I just reaching?

well, didn't the man that initially found/ hear the numbers over a frequency (the reason Hugo went to Australia) .... so maybe its that. i did hear 42.

[SP1!]

What about the radio frequency Danielle's group is picking up when they first get to the island? It sounds like the computer numbering off a message just like the one Danielle ends up leaving. But she hasn't left it yet when we hear this.
Has someone else left a message or is it her message they are hearing?
Or am I just reaching?

I have no clue but I heard the numbers as well, I think its something that was there before her.

[K.C.]

I have no clue but I heard the numbers as well, I think its something that was there before her.

The numbers were originally the first thing recorded, presumably by DHARMA.

There's the computerized 'iteration' voice, and then it'd repeat the 4,8,15,16,23,42 numbers that Sam Toomey first heard, who passed them on to Leonard, who told them to Hurley in the mental institution.

Then when Rousseau reaches the radio tower, she records the French transmission that the survivors heard in the Pilot.

The 'iteration' there with both messages because it's just a counter ticking off the numbers of times the message has been played.

But the message played last week was the numbers.

[Coach_Mac]

The numbers were originally the first thing recorded, presumably by DHARMA.

There's the computerized 'iteration' voice, and then it'd repeat the 4,8,15,16,23,42 numbers that Sam Toomey first heard, who passed them on to Leonard, who told them to Hurley in the mental institution.

Then when Rousseau reaches the radio tower, she records the French transmission that the survivors heard in the Pilot.

The 'iteration' there with both messages because it's just a counter ticking off the numbers of times the message has been played.

But the message played last week was the numbers.

K.C. You have all the answers.

[PD]

little tidbit from the last audio podcast

the last episode was episode 505; tonight's episode (called 3:16) is episode 507; next week's episode (the life and death of jeremy benthem) is episode 506.

Cuse & Lindelof said they wrote them together, and they could go in either order; they decided to switch the order they show them - which was only the 2nd time in the series (other time was season 1)

[WampusCrandle]

holy shit, they are back on the island. it amazes me and it doesnt ... sorry for treating this thread like a listening thread in advance

plus, another station in L.A. - insane!

[PD]

holy shit, they are back on the island. it amazes me and it doesnt ... sorry for treating this thread like a listening thread in advance

I too wantd to post-
I couldnt tell if it was "real" or a dream till they went to the 46 hrs earlier...

[WampusCrandle]

I too wantd to post-
I couldnt tell if it was "real" or a dream till they went to the 46 hrs earlier...

honestly, i feel like, im just gonna treat it as such, since everyone who watches this show that is on here will either 1) watch the show and post at the same time, or 2) watch it, and then post directly after. so, i feel safe in posting.

at any rate, that station is more amazing than any other, since its the only one that isnt on the island

[PD]

Jack to Eloise (about Ben)
"Is he telling the truth"?

Eloise "Probably not":lol:

[Aggie]

Jack to Eloise (about Ben)
"Is he telling the truth"?

Eloise "Probably not":lol:

I liked that one too. ha

[PD]

we know now 316 is the flight.
we know that there is a tie in with Locke and Christian shephard have relationship which leads to the "proxy"
(which was mentioned in the podcast)

[WampusCrandle]

oh jesus, what the hell happened to Aaron? Kate is scary on a new level now.

[Doogie]

Lots of open ended things that will probably be revealed in the next few episodes. Ben's "old friends"request, Kate no longer with Aaron. I wonder what other open ended questions will be asked before the end of the episode.

[PD]

Ben keeping a promise?

Penny better be careful.

[Aggie]

I love how Jack has to have faith to get back to the island. Man of Science vs. Man of Faith was a great episode and I like how they are making Jack take on the faith of John.

[WampusCrandle]

looks like Sayid is going on the plane like Kate did. i like that.

[PD]

"what's going to happen to the other people on the plane"?

"Who cares"

[Doctor Manhattan]

I like the comic Hugo was reading...

[Doogie]

"what's going to happen to the other people on the plane"?

"Who cares"

Ha ha ha...hell yeah. I was dying laughing at that line.

In reference to my last post we got our other questions. Who was that woman with Sayid and why was he detained?? And did that woman with him not remind anyone else of Anna Lucia?? And finally, what in the hell happened to Ben?? I am excited now to find out what the hell happened to everyone else to make all this happen??

My theory on Ben being beat up; maybe a scrum with Kate? Just want it out there

Everyone is there...

And finally, Franks line is the best "Where not going to Guam are we??" Ha ha!!!

Love this fucking show!!!

[WampusCrandle]

"what's going to happen to the other people on the plane"?

"Who cares"

hahaha, Ben is just hilarious tonight.

i really want to know about Aaron though. I feel like he may be on that plane. and if not, then he is with Sun's little girl.

[IamFogHat]

I like the comic Hugo was reading...

"I got a phone call...from a very special man..."

[WampusCrandle]

"how can you read?"

"because my mom taught me, Jack"

:lol:

[BeerBandit]

If this week's and next week's are interchangeable than I suppose we'll find out Sayid, Aaron's and Hurley's story next week.

[PD]

And finally, Franks line is the best "Where not going to Guam are we??" Ha ha!!!

Love this fucking show!!!

"how can you read?"

"because my mom taught me, Jack"

:lol:

loved that line too.


My theory on Ben being beat up; maybe a scrum with Kate? Just want it out there


as I alluded before, I think Ben's "promise to a friend" was when he told Widmore he'd kill his daughter.

notice they were at the dock.

[IamFogHat]

Ok, who's shoe is it going to be that Jack runs past in the piolt episode?

[WampusCrandle]

holy shit, they ended up in the freakin' past!

[BlackSpider]

Well, that episode cleared things up...

[IamFogHat]

Jin WTF?!?!?!

[Doogie]

holy shit, they ended up in the freakin' past!

Yes, but why is Jin there??

And I LOVED that Ben line...Goddamn he was the shining light of tonights show. One great line after another...

[PD]

Yes, but why is Jin there??

And I LOVED that Ben line...Goddamn he was the shining light of tonights show. One great line after another...

For Jin in the past- I guess they are still jumping, and jumping together.

Notice that Ben was reading "Ulysses"

[K.C.]

This episode was designed to set up the rest of the season, I think.

#1 - Ben obviously killed Penny, which I'm sure we'll see in a future episode.

#2 - If I had to guess, Hurley saw Ghost Charlie again, and Ghost Charlie told him to get on the flight, hence why Hurley had the guitar with him.

Sayid's case is a little odd, since it makes no sense why he'd be taken to Guam, but I'm sure we'll find out how he ended up there.

#3 - Jin works for DHARMA. Looks like the island skidded to a halt in the 70s and the islanders blended their way into the DHARMA Initiative.

#4 - I'm not sure why they needed to 'recreate the crash.' Just reaffirms that there was a reason these specific people were chosen, but what that is, we don't know.

#5 - Looks like we'll get some new characters. The chick that was Gaia from Rome and new Arabic guy will probably survive the crash.

#6 - I loved Locke's note. The whole thing was set up to be some epic, Breakfast Club style, note, and it was just 'I wish you had believed me.' Classic.

#7 - No Walt? No Desmond? I imagine Desmond will join up with Widmore now, in the aftermath of the Penny thing, and eventually find his way back. I'm still curious what's Walt's purpose.

#8 - So there's numerous electromagnetic pockets throughout the world. Probably worth filing away in the ol' memory bank.

#9 - Also interesting that Kate dropped that little 'we're not together' line on Jack. Hmmm...

[WampusCrandle]

This episode was designed to set up the rest of the season, I think.

#1 - Ben obviously killed Penny, which I'm sure we'll see in a future episode.

#2 - If I had to guess, Hurley saw Ghost Charlie again, and Ghost Charlie told him to get on the flight, hence why Hurley had the guitar with him.

Sayid's case is a little odd, since it makes no sense why he'd be taken to Guam, but I'm sure we'll find out how he ended up there.

#3 - Jin works for DHARMA. Looks like the island skidded to a halt in the 70s and the islanders blended their way into the DHARMA Initiative.

#4 - I'm not sure why they needed to 'recreate the crash.' Just reaffirms that there was a reason these specific people were chosen, but what that is, we don't know.

#5 - Looks like we'll get some new characters. The chick that was Gaia from Rome and new Arabic guy will probably survive the crash.

#6 - I loved Locke's note. The whole thing was set up to be some epic, Breakfast Club style, note, and it was just 'I wish you had believed me.' Classic.

#7 - No Walt? No Desmond? I imagine Desmond will join up with Widmore now, in the aftermath of the Penny thing, and eventually find his way back. I'm still curious what's Walt's purpose.

#8 - So there's numerous electromagnetic pockets throughout the world. Probably worth filing away in the ol' memory bank.

#9 - Also interesting that Kate dropped that little 'we're not together' line on Jack. Hmmm...

1. unfortunately, i think the same thing

2. im sure that Ben was somehow behind Sayid being on the plane

3. can we assume that time has stopped in the 70s then, since everyone is back on the island?

4. i think it is a bit odd that there are no parts of the plane anywhere, though, there must be, or else, why would Jin have ended up at the spring? i assume that Dharma saw the plane being torn apart and sent Jin to check it out.

5. im excited for the new characters, though, i worry about them becoming stale or annoying. i'ld also like to see if there are any other survivors besides those that we are assuming will become new characters.

7. i would assume that Walt wasn't needed since he was able to leave the island before and there were no "time moving" problems. as for Desmond, i feel like he will end up on the island soon. i mean, the fact that Aaron wasn't on the plane makes me feel like there will be more people, somehow, coming to the island.

8. there were pockets on Australia, and that is why Rose and Bernard went, because of the healing forces (which i assume was the electromagnetic pocket)

9. Kate better start acting a bit more "together" because she isnt going to be seeing any new person for the rest of her life. she better tell what happened to Aaron, though i am sure it will be seen later.

[Doctor Manhattan]

#4 - I'm not sure why they needed to 'recreate the crash.' Just reaffirms that there was a reason these specific people were chosen, but what that is, we don't know.

#5 - Looks like we'll get some new characters. The chick that was Gaia from Rome and new Arabic guy will probably survive the crash.

If there was a crash. Jack Hurley and Kate didn't think there was, there was a time flash (with the same sound as we heard on the island during all the jumps) on the plane just before the ended up on the island, and maybe Ben didn't care about the other people on the plane because they would not end up being taken with the flash.

[K.C.]

If there was a crash. Jack Hurley and Kate didn't think there was, there was a time flash (with the same sound as we heard on the island during all the jumps) on the plane just before the ended up on the island, and maybe Ben didn't care about the other people on the plane because they would not end up being taken with the flash.


The flash was probably just the plane entering the window Ms. Hawking was talking about to get back to the island space.

Jack was thrown from the plane and ended up in the jungle in the Pilot episode of the show. There's no reason to believe that there isn't a crashed plane somewhere out by the beach where Sayid, Sun, the new characters, and Locke are.

Come to think of it, Kate wasn't on the beach in the original crash either. Jack ran into her in the jungle in the first episode.

[MagillaGorillaz]

I like the comic Hugo was reading...

Notice how it was in Spanish? Like the Green Lantern/Flash one Walt found on the beach.

I kept thinking we would see Vincent wake Jack up after the crash.

Jack's Grandfather, he has to be part of this too. I wouldn't be surprised if he was on the island in the 50's. And the rabbit during the magic show, that was a nice touch.

And Jack Kate and Hurley the only one's back on the island. Remember in season 2 how they were the ones on the list that Michael had. Maybe I'm looking too much into connections.

[KingGeno]

Lamppost? Chrono Trigger? The End of Time?

[K.C.]

Lamppost? Chrono Trigger? The End of Time?

That game is really how I've been looking at this thing for a while now.

[KingGeno]

That game is really how I've been looking at this thing for a while now.

Pendulum swinging. Old man at the end of time. Scientist lady explaining time travel.

Maybe toss some Chrono Cross in there too.

[ChrisTheCop]

I'm holding out hope that Ben's injuries are from Desmond protecting Penny.

Sayid's presence on the plane also explains Hugo's freedom from incarceration.
Ben more than likely arranged 'evidence' that Sayid did the killings which Hurley wss accused of and possibly forged an extradition order to Guam, for whatever reason. Ben gets what he wants.

As for getting used to only having Jack, I'm sure Kate is looking forward to getting back into Sawyer's arms. She only had sex with Jack to shut him up from asking questions.

And yeah, that "my mother taught me" line had me laughing...
although as we all know, Ben's mom died giving birth to him.

Next week looks like another amazing ep... as all of Locke's are!

[Coach_Mac]

As for getting used to only having Jack, I'm sure Kate is looking forward to getting back into Sawyer's arms. She only had sex with Jack to shut him up from asking questions.


I just think Kate gets horny during stressful or upsetting situations. I think every time her and Sawyer had sex was when she was upset.

Also, the new middle eastern looking guy on the plane was in Three Kings and was the best actor in the movie (which may not be saying that much) so he should be good.

[hammersavage]

If this week's and next week's are interchangeable than I suppose we'll find out Sayid, Aaron's and Hurley's story next week.

It should be in the exact same format. Start with them on the Island and flash back 46 hours. Also see why Ben is bloody.


#6 - I loved Locke's note. The whole thing was set up to be some epic, Breakfast Club style, note, and it was just 'I wish you had believed me.' Classic.

Dear Jack,

I accept the fact that I had to sacrifice myself for whatever it was we did wrong, but I think you're crazy for not listening to me in the first place. The island sees us as it wants to see us... In the simplest terms and the most convenient definitions. But what I've found out is that each one of us is a surgeon...
...and an Asian
...and a basket case
...a manipulator
...and a fugitive.

Does that answer your question?... Sincerely yours, John Locke

[SP1!]

Ehhhh this episode blew, seemed like a long preview just to see jin in the early 70s, for only a season and half left this seems kind of stretched out for no reason. Most of this could have been wrapped up in 15 mins.

[King Imp]

Both of Ben's lines on the plane were classic. I have despised his character since he was introduced, but he was downright hysterical tonight. Really hope he didn't kill Penny though.

As for where is Aaron, my bet is on Kate giving him to Claire's mother.

[K.C.]

I don't want to give off the impression that my expectations are high, but I'm pretty sure next week's episode will be the greatest thing ever committed to film.

That's right...fuck you, Citizen Kane.

[Friday]

And finally, Franks line is the best "Where not going to Guam are we??" Ha ha!!!


I am just watching this now and so far this is my favorite line! ha!

[Annie Waits]

i love the Ben character

[Coach_Mac]

Ehhhh this episode blew, seemed like a long preview just to see jin in the early 70s, for only a season and half left this seems kind of stretched out for no reason. Most of this could have been wrapped up in 15 mins.

That's just crazy talk. But it pretty much was wrapped up in 15 minutes. Does it feel like the commercials are getting longer and longer? I feel like in an hour, there's more commercial than show.

[spadanko]

Another solid episode. I think Ben probably set up sayid to have a marshallon the plane because Kate did. Things had to be as similar to the original crash as possible.

next week looks simply amazing

[spadanko]

and yeah, charlie def. told Hurley where to go, hence the guitar case

[pittphantoms]

Everyone keeps glancing over the biggest plot line!!!!

Did Jack hit on that single lady at the bar before he got on the plane? Anna Lucia II

[WampusCrandle]

Everyone keeps glancing over the biggest plot line!!!!

Did Jack hit on that single lady at the bar before he got on the plane? Anna Lucia II

i was really hoping that it was gonna be Libby, somehow, but i know that wouldn't happen

[Don Stugots]

Ben cannot help himself but to
lie.

[instrument]

So we have to assume jin has been on the island for a while if he's a part of dharma, or someone knowing his situation gave him the position?

if so how many years has passed since the island did stop moving? And is this the islands present? Or did the plane crash in the true present ans jettison the six back to connect with the others?

Farradays working construction, jin is a workmen, can't wait to see the rest.

[PD]

"how can you read?"

"because my mom taught me, Jack"

:lol:

I just realized this morning-
didn't Ben's mother die in childbirth?
is that a faux pas or did Ben say that intentionally- with reason?

edit:
I see Chris had this thought before me.

And yeah, that "my mother taught me" line had me laughing...
although as we all know, Ben's mom died giving birth to him.

[stump12]

I just realized this morning-
didn't Ben's mother die in childbirth?
is that a faux pas or did Ben say that intentionally- with reason?

I think it was a bad joke. Im sure they didn't think about it when they wrote it.

[PD]

If this week's and next week's are interchangeable than I suppose we'll find out Sayid, Aaron's and Hurley's story next week.

The original episode 5x06 is "The life and times of Jeremy Bentham".
It has got to be Locke-centric. Remember Hurley (and I think Sayid) said earlier that Jeremy Bentham visited them, so I guess it's pretty much from Locke turning the wheel to the return to the island.

[PD]

I think it was a bad joke. Im sure they didn't think about it when they wrote it.

That is something too obvious; I don't think it wasn't done intentionally, although the answer could simply be that Ben was being sardonic


Farradays working construction, jin is a workmen, can't wait to see the rest.
I didn't connect the two, but that is quite possible that they are connected.

[stump12]

Everyone keeps glancing over the biggest plot line!!!!

Did Jack hit on that single lady at the bar before he got on the plane? Anna Lucia II

Yeah they were focused in on her at the beginning of that scene.

[stump12]

This is just like Heros. They can go in whatever direction they want, whenever they want. It is impossible to try to figure out what is gonna happen or make sesne of what has happend.

[SP1!]

That's just crazy talk. But it pretty much was wrapped up in 15 minutes. Does it feel like the commercials are getting longer and longer? I feel like in an hour, there's more commercial than show.
Yeah it seems likes there is only a 35-40 minute show now with all the commercials, gotta love the way the big networks kill all the good shows, fucking morons. Its why we DVR the show and never start it till after its over.

Next weeks show better be fucking amazing or I may end up tuning out as well and just watch them all later after I download them.

[Furtherman]

And finally, Franks line is the best "Where not going to Guam are we??" Ha ha!!!

Great line! And glad to see Frank will be back! But, if he disappears too... what WILL become of the others on the plane?

"how can you read?"

"because my mom taught me, Jack"

Another great one.

That game is really how I've been looking at this thing for a while now.

What game is that?

Ehhhh this episode blew, seemed like a long preview just to see jin in the early 70s, for only a season and half left this seems kind of stretched out for no reason. Most of this could have been wrapped up in 15 mins.

I don't think you are watching the same show as we are.

[PD]

This is just like Heros. They can go in whatever direction they want, whenever they want. It is impossible to try to figure out what is gonna happen or make sesne of what has happend.

the difference though is they now have an end date/place.
Since the strike they have worked to get to that place- which will (hopefully) be rewarding.

[hammersavage]

the difference though is they now have an end date/place.
Since the strike they have worked to get to that place- which will (hopefully) be rewarding.

The other big difference is that Lost is good.

[instrument]

And why couldn't bens mother teach him? No one know the extent of ben's ability to manipulate the island, he very well couldve gone back in time or brought her to the island.

And we know that the group was moving in time together, so its obvious the whole group is back together on the island in what looks to be the 70's, so sawyer etc have either found jobs with dharma like farraday and jin or they are hiding or with the others.

I think we'll find that the destruction of the orchid will be tied in with the 6.

[spadanko]

how about Kate being pregnant to represent Claire?

[Furtherman]

And why couldn't bens mother teach him? No one know the extent of ben's ability to manipulate the island, he very well couldve gone back in time or brought her to the island.

I wouldn't look to deep into that, it was a joke.

[ChrisTheCop]

I wouldn't look to deep into that, it was a joke.

Just like when Hurley and Sayid were trying to figure out where the Glen Miller music was coming from and Hurley said... "or WHEN??? ...just kiddin dude."

[hydee]

oh jesus, what the hell happened to Aaron? Kate is scary on a new level now.

Not sure this has been mentioned but I think that Kate might have given Aaron to Clair's mother. It is the only sensible thing that could have been done, being that Clair's mother was in LA at the time, I think it was a rather odd turn of events that she was in LA at the time.

I do wonder if Kate is now pregnant, but I am not sure if that needed to be done. We don't know how Kate, Sayid and Hurley came to the conclusion to be on the plane so maybe they all have proxy situations that they have to deal with.

[instrument]

So after watching again I'm sure the plane crashed in the present while the six were re-united with the others in the past.

Would explaint the water bottles that they found on the beach in the other episode.

Was probably the others shooting at them assuming they were survivors of the ajira flight.

[instrument]

Oh my god, abaddon's faction got kate on the flight to kill jack, or something along those lines.

[PD]

as for faraday and Jin getting jobs,
wouldnt it be more likely they stole the unis to infiltrate/find info?

[instrument]

Nah, definitely employed, benefits and everything.

[Whiskeyportal]

Nah, definitely employed, benefits and everything.

I wonder how the Dharma 401K plan is :flush:

[Dan 'Hampton]

I hear one of the perks is being able to build your own cabin.

[Furtherman]

Good news on the ratings side!

Surprise: 'Lost' ratings rebound (http://www.thrfeed.com/2009/02/abc-lost-ratings-rebound.html)

As for specific shows, let's note that ABC's "Lost" is an unpredictable show, but its ratings rarely surprise.

This season has been on a steady, mild slide that if charted on a graph would show the numbers on a gradually descending line like an airliner losing altitude. It's pretty typical of later-season heavily serialized shows, even the good ones.

Then, last night, "Lost" (11.3 million viewers, 5.1 preliminary adults 18-49 rating and 12 share) rebounded big time. Some kind of bounce was expected after last week, when the mystery-thriller faced an extended "Idol" for the first time. But "Lost" shot up to surpass its January season premiere to a new high (its best since last April, in fact). Competition was heavy, too, with everybody except the CW airing originals. The "Lost" gain helped "Life on Mars" (5.8 million, 2.1/6) which spiked 31% from last week's low. Bonus for ABC: Freshman competitor "Lie to Me" (11.1 million, 4.2/10), which tied "Lost" the last time they faced off two weeks ago, sagged 11% to a season low. Of course, with Fox moving "Idol" against "Lost," the show's late-season viewership surge could be short lived.

"Lost" was the evening's highest-rated scripted series, with Fox's "American Idol" (24.4 million, 8.9/24) winning the night. "Idol" aired its first results show and, as is often the case for the reality series at this juncture, sank to a season low. "Idol" was down 6% from last week. How it performed compared with last year depends on which night you compare it with: "Idol" was up 5% from last season's first results show aired on a competitive Thursday night, but down 21% when stacked against its most-comparable Wednesday two-hour performance show. "Lie" was the second-highest-rated scripted show of the evening.

[K.C.]

So here's my Lost thought for the day:

A lot has been made of the fact that the O6 'never should have left.'

Most of the discussion, in that regard, deals with them having been chosen for a reason to be there.

While that may or may not be true, I think, in the literal sense, they 'never should have left.'

Charlie should have drowned mid-way through Season 3, trying to save Claire (who also should have died mid-way through Season 3, the same way).

Desmond intervened, and saved Claire, thus preventing Charlie from drowning. This was an alteration of time.

Time in Lost is very much like 'string theory' in that the string has always existed, and you can move forward and backward on the string but never alter.

...except Desmond.

What Desmond did, when he first saved Charlie, is more like a railroad split...he left one track of time, for another track along the line, thus shooting off an alternate timeline from that point on.

The O6 never should have left the island, because Charlie should have never reached The Looking Glass to turn off the jamming equipment.

Most people assume Ben knows as much as he does because he's either lived, or seen, so many of these events before, moving along the string via the island.

But, Ben's ability to foresee the future disappeared from the point that Desmond first saved Charlie. How so?

-He assumed Locke wouldn't kill his own father, Locke did (using Sawyer as the proxy, but nonetheless killed him)
-He assumed he'd never lose favor with Jacob, but Jacob chose Locke over him.
-He believed he could kill Locke at the mass grave, but failed.
-He believed he could storm the beach camp but that failed.
-He had no idea of Charlie's presence in the The Looking Glass, and never foresaw it.
-He didn't believe Keamy would kill his daughter, but Keamy did.

Ben still has a degree of knowledge, because Ben still knows who the important players in this game are (Widmore, Hawking, Locke, Jack), and has sought them out for information, but he has been, in a sense, flying blind since Season 3.



That's only half the equation, though, because if Desmond has always had the power to alter the future, did he alter the future the day he killed Kelvin when he didn't push the button?

Did the first split occur there, with another split occurring when he first started saving Charlie?

(stay with me, if you've read this far...)


So let's fast-forward to present day in Lost.

Let's suppose Ben murdered Penny and Charlie Jr. Desmond finds out and tracks Ben back to the island where Desmond comes to understand that he has the power to alter time.

He comes to learn of three possible outcomes:

#1 - Widmore's optimal outcome - Desmond does nothing to alter anything we've seen the past five seasons. As a result, Widmore rediscovers the island in Season 4, presumably tracks 316 back to the island in Season 5, and has the chance to see his vision (whatever that may be) come to fruition.

#2 - Ben's optimal outcome - Desmond stops himself from saving Charlie in Season 3. As a result, the survivors never get rescued, the freighter never finds the island, and Ben reigns over the island with Jacob's favor for as long as he sees fit. The survivors eventually integrate in with The Others. Sun dies from her pregnancy.

#3 - The Original Timeline - Desmond makes himself push the button on September 22, 2004. Flight 815 arrives at its destination and the island never becomes visible. Jack buries his father, Kate goes to prison, Charlie scores some heroin, Hurley lives like an nut, Sayid finds Nadia, and so on, and so on. Desmond lives out his time pushing the button in the hatch -- the 'only truly great thing he'll ever do' as said to him by Ms. Hawking.

So why would Desmond pick #3? Because Ben killed Penny. In #3, Penny is alive, and she never finds Desmond...never becomes involved in this island game...she presumably lives her life, moves on, and finds some happy ending.

In the end, Desmond gives up everything, including any semblance of a life he could have had, to save her...his 'truly great thing.'

[disneyspy]

haha,you over thought it KC,THEY DONT KNOW THE FUTURE.mrs hawking was surprised when desmond said he'd take the ring.she kows that there are corse corrections i.e.she didnt save the man with the red shoes.dharma found the island with science not faith that it was there,same as penny.they had faith but it took science,the core message of the show.i could go on but why

[K.C.]

haha,you over thought it KC,THEY DONT KNOW THE FUTURE.mrs hawking was surprised when desmond said he'd take the ring.she kows that there are corse corrections i.e.she didnt save the man with the red shoes.dharma found the island with science not faith that it was there,same as penny.they had faith but it took science,the core message of the show.i could go on but why

No, her conversation was rooted in the fact that she knew Desmond, just like Faraday knows it , is the only one who has the ability to operate outside of fate, and she was trying to prevent him from straying

Desmond COULD have chosen to take the ring and marry Penny...that's the whole point. He had the ability to chose...He didn't because she planted the doubt in his mind that he wasn't suppose to do it.

In a sense, everything she said about course correction IS true....but it doesn't apply to Desmond. She lied to Desmond.

That's why he was able to save Charlie...that's why he didn't push the button that day...


And I disagree wholeheartedly on the purpose of the show. While science and faith matter, it's ultimately a show about fate vs. free will.

[SP1!]

I don't think you are watching the same show as we are.
No, we are its why Im still watching a show for the first time in over a decade, the problem is that last weeks show could have been wrapped up in a shorter time and its making start to think they are just drawing it out for maximum ads. Im just saying that episode was a let down compared to other episodes, Im still holding out hope that next weeks show will blow the lid off.

[instrument]

If jacob chose locke why would he have him move the island?

Just wondering.

So far we don't know for sure if ben was telling the truth about not being able to return, which I would assume he was due to the location of his stash near where he awoke.

But if locke would've moved the island originally would he have been so lucky?

At least we do know that his back wasn't temporarily healed on the island..

[disneyspy]

whats gonna be kinda cool to see is if locke comes back to life ala christian

[ChrisTheCop]

whats gonna be kinda cool to see is if locke comes back to life ala christian

not watching the previews, eh?

[disneyspy]

not watching the previews, eh?

na,i never watch any previews ever on stuff i'll watch,movie trailers included,i stay away from the insider sites and scroll past any post that quotes such sites,i'm strictly in it for the entertainment,i dont need to be in the know

[ChrisTheCop]

Ok...then....

Yeah. I wonder that too. Would be cool if he came back to life somehow.

[Whiskeyportal]

Ok...then....

Yeah. I wonder that too. Would be cool if he came back to life somehow.

He'll either come back to life, or be like Jack's father

[instrument]

How do you know he came back to life from the previews?

I mustve missed something, other then the scenes prior to his suicide.

And was that ben on the ground in front of him?

Wacko.

[Whiskeyportal]

I was just guessing, I never saw any previews

[ChrisTheCop]

In the previews:

He is on the beach with (Gaia) the lady who was escorting Sayid on the plane, and he says, "My name is John Locke." She says what do you remember? He says, "I remember dying."

As for the Ben kneeling before him. Take a look at that shot again next time you see it.
It's almost like he's worshipping him, and John's arms are outstretched, like Jesus.

Also note that in the LA Dharma station thats supposed to be a church, there are NO crosses shown. Not one. The "Jesus" statue out front has his hands outstretched... but is it Jesus? Or Jacob? And that painting of Doubting Thomas bugs me. I dunno if it's famous or created for the show, but I always thought Thomas wanted to see Jesus' wounds from the cross (his hands and feet). Why is he poking at a hole in his rib?

So since Locke is "resurrected" on the island, is he the Dharma Jesus?

[instrument]

Dvr cut off the end, but I'll def watch em again.

And I agree with the posture of ben, and the voice over gave it that feel.

[meanmrbill]

In the previews:

He is on the beach with (Gaia) the lady who was escorting Sayid on the plane, and he says, "My name is John Locke." She says what do you remember? He says, "I remember dying."

As for the Ben kneeling before him. Take a look at that shot again next time you see it.
It's almost like he's worshipping him, and John's arms are outstretched, like Jesus.

Also note that in the LA Dharma station thats supposed to be a church, there are NO crosses shown. Not one. The "Jesus" statue out front has his hands outstretched... but is it Jesus? Or Jacob? And that painting of Doubting Thomas bugs me. I dunno if it's famous or created for the show, but I always thought Thomas wanted to see Jesus' wounds from the cross (his hands and feet). Why is he poking at a hole in his rib?

So since Locke is "resurrected" on the island, is he the Dharma Jesus?
Yes, it's a very famous painting by Caravaggio.

[Coach_Mac]

[QUOTE=ChrisTheCop;2134327]In the previews:



Also note that in the LA Dharma station thats supposed to be a church, there are NO crosses shown. Not one. The "Jesus" statue out front has his hands outstretched... but is it Jesus? Or Jacob? And that painting of Doubting Thomas bugs me. I dunno if it's famous or created for the show, but I always thought Thomas wanted to see Jesus' wounds from the cross (his hands and feet). Why is he poking at a hole in his rib?

QUOTE]

Jesus was also jabbed in the side with a spear so that is part of what Thomas wanted to see and feel.

[instrument]

Yeah, big ass crucifix on the wall before they walk down stairs.

Giant dead'r'n'hell jesus type cross.

Sorry.

Oo also another behind jack in the hallway before ellie takes him to detention.

[ChrisTheCop]

Yeah, big ass crucifix on the wall before they walk down stairs.

Giant dead'r'n'hell jesus type cross.

Sorry.

Oo also another behind jack in the hallway before ellie takes him to detention.

As for the first one, I saw that but thought it was a shadow made to look like a cross to fool us (I dont tivo in hd, even now I dont see Jesus on there, deadrnhell or not), but youre right-- the one outside Ellie's office is a true solid cross. I still find it odd that with the religious implications of the show, theyre not worshipping someone other than JC. And then there's that other scene I mentioned with Ben kneeling before Locke with outstretched arms... somethin's up.

[Whiskeyportal]

This is going to be a long week until the next episode.

[K.C.]

http://www.waaalt.com/

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/SUULXFNE0V0&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/SUULXFNE0V0&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[Doogie]

And here we go...now hopefully we will find out what happened to Kate/Sayid/Ben etc from last episode.

And did anyone hear Nortons Lost rant today on O and A?? Funny goof

[WampusCrandle]

oh shit, Locke is alive.

[Drunky McBetidont]

cool first five minutes so far. who are these scavenger people from the plane?

[Drunky McBetidont]

02-22-2009, 01:02 PM #610
Whiskeyportal
Banned


On Vacation!


Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Corner of Space and Time
Posts: 734


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is going to be a long week until the next episode.



longer even?:banning:

[WampusCrandle]

it seems that whenever you leave the island, via wheel, you will always end up in Tunisa, Africa. I really cant remember why that place is so important. was it the place that Charlotte was doing archeological work and found a polar bear tooth?

[WampusCrandle]

tv psychic!

i feel like maybe Charles Widmore knows Locke, obviously from the island, because he is his son. long shot, but i am throwing it out there.

[Drunky McBetidont]

fucking great shit with locke and charles

[Drunky McBetidont]

it seems that whenever you leave the island, via wheel, you will always end up in Tunisa, Africa. I really cant remember why that place is so important. was it the place that Charlotte was doing archeological work and found a polar bear tooth?

yes. polar bear with dharma collar i think

[Doogie]

"A war is coming..."

What the fuck is he, Magneeto??

[WampusCrandle]

tv psychic!

i feel like maybe Charles Widmore knows Locke, obviously from the island, because he is his son. long shot, but i am throwing it out there.

well im completely wrong- Widmore just mentioned both of Locke's parents

[ChrisTheCop]

Yes. Tunisia is indeed where charlotte located the polar bear dig.

And I love a Locke ep!! When they showed the shoes on the beach, I got chills, and once again screamed I LOVE THIS FUCKING SHOW!!!!

[WampusCrandle]

wow, Sayid is all over the world - i like that. Sayid and Locke together, this couldn't be a better episode.

[PD]

this widmore twist has me in all goosebumps.

[WampusCrandle]

wow, Locke has some heart, when he is considering the island. i'm glad he didn't convince Walt to come.

[Doogie]

Jesus Christ, Walt got older in 4 years. Remember he was just that screaming little kid like 4 years ago...

[tbagnu]

i too want to say that i love this fucking show!!

[WampusCrandle]

Hugo has become a great painter, nice water colors.

ha, I love that Hugo thinks that Locke is dead. :lol:

[WampusCrandle]

holy shit. Lance Reddick is presumed dead, and Locke is in a bit of trouble.

i love this fucking episode!

[Drunky McBetidont]

who was the shooter? ben?

[Doogie]

Well, first death (Helen) then more death (Abaddon). Then Locke running a read light (death for a license.)

Worthy note: The first book of the New Testement in the Bible is Matthew. Abaddon is of course the harbringer of the Anti-Christ.

[Drunky McBetidont]

how is it that mythbusters hasn't sued the brighthouse comercials for copyright?
that brothers and sisters looks like dogshit

[TooLowBrow]

how is it that mythbusters hasn't sued the brighthouse comercials for copyright?
that brothers and sisters looks like dogshit

which commercial


i hate calista flockhart

[BeerBandit]

Did anyone else see 4 toes on Locke's foot?

[Drunky McBetidont]

talk about a leap of faith! locke rules.

this is the best show ever. ben for mod!

[WampusCrandle]

to see Locke hit this low point, to kill himself because of his lack of self/ effort/ whatever, instead of doing it because it was his destiny, shows more depth in his character, than any other time.

fuck, great writing.

[Don Stugots]

Holy Shit!

[WampusCrandle]

holy shit! ben goes through that whole schpeal about how Locke needs to live, he is so important, just to snap and kill him because of Ms. Hawkings.

how is this show not winning more awards for writing?

[Drunky McBetidont]

holy shit! ben goes through that whole schpeal about how Locke needs to live, he is so important, just to snap and kill him because of Ms. Hawkings.

how is this show not winning more awards for writing?

locke should emmy supporting and edward almos should best lead for adama orthe awards are fixed

and ben studied chocking scene from NCFOM

charlie coming back to life, i bet. this bonus show, huh?

[PD]

boy ben

this ben vs widmore

[WampusCrandle]

locke should emmy supporting and edward almos should best lead for adama orthe awards are fixed

this episode should be nominated up the wazoo for any and every award. Locke deserves an emmy for this episode.

[WampusCrandle]

Ben better watch his back, because Locke doesn't look lke he is fucking around anymore.

now it's just the waiting game to see the legendary K.C. Lost Run Down

[Dan 'Hampton]

By far the best episode of the season easily in top 5 ever for the show.

[Drunky McBetidont]

a bunch of call back and a bunch of loose ends tied up. 10/10 this week

[KingGeno]

Ben will stop at nothing to get back to the island. He told Jon that once someone leaves they can never go back before he moved the island last season. I guess there is always a loophole.

Still waiting to see if Ben killed Penny, Penny and the Child, Desmond, Desmond or Penny, or all of em.

[K.C.]

Oddly enough, for such a great episode, it was pretty straight forward:

#1 - The Pilot and 'some lady' took one of the boats and went across the island. That would be Frank and Sun, I suppose.

#2 - What happened to Sayid after the crash? He's the only one unaccounted for right now.

#3 - So who to believe...Widmore, or Ben? The episode tried to present a very convincing case for Charles Widmore's story. For one thing, though, there's one enormous hole in Widmore's story.

He claims that The Hostiles are his people, yet he has been pretty clearly and definitively linked to the DHARMA Initiative, who we know were in direct conflict with the Hostiles. So something does not add up...either Widmore is playing DHARMA to find information about the island, or he's lying about his relationship with the Hostiles.

Furthermore, what the hell do we make of Ben? I had put out previously that Ben was trying to usurp Locke's destiny. That would appear to be the case from tonight's episode.

But... consider this...the plan only worked because Locke was dead. Widmore did not want Locke to die. Furthermore, Locke, if he was alive, would have never went to Sun, also making sure the plan would have not worked. Ben was able to lie to Sun to get her to come back.

So while Ben looked ultra-evil in this episode, it's still possible that he was one step ahead of the game.

While we learned a lot, we didn't learn anymore in the grand scheme of who has the better intentions...Widmore or Ben. Still too many questions.

#4 - 316 looks like it crash on the Hydra, the island that The Others were on in Season 3. That may be why Frank and Sun took the boat, to get to the main island.

[ChrisTheCop]

I'm gonna have to watch and compare another time, but it looked to me that the note
we saw Locke write was just a little different than the one we saw Jack read.

Jack read: "be lieved"
Locke wrote "believed"

Maybe Ben destroyed the 1st one during cleanup, then decided to re-write it ?

I dunno, sometimes I see things that arent there.

[K.C.]

I noticed too that Locke never said his name was 'Jeremy Bentham' to Walt, and yet Walt told Hurley that Bentham had visited him.

Continuity error.

[IamFogHat]

Jesus Christ pose much? Rewatch the pivitol scene in the apartment with Locke and Ben, he does it before Ben talks him down, but then he does it again after he's dead.

Anyway, I fuckin' loved it, great episode.

[TooLowBrow]

was ben planning on killing locke all along or did he only decide to kill him after the way their conversation went?

[WampusCrandle]

was ben planning on killing locke all along or did he only decide to kill him after the way their conversation went?

it seems like Ben wasn't going to kill Locke until he started talking about Mrs. Hawkings

[KingGeno]

Ben was VERY surprised to hear Jin was alive.

[K.C.]

was ben planning on killing locke all along or did he only decide to kill him after the way their conversation went?

The way I think I'm going to take it is that Ben needed to keep him alive long enough to find out what Jacob had told him to do.

Jacob is for all intents and purposes finished with Ben, and has been since Season 3.

Ben learned what Jacob told Locke about moving the island, and then tricked Locke to take his place, and now has learned the plans for bringing everyone back, and tricked him once again to take his place.

So I think it was completely calculated all along.


The question is whether Ben is suppose to be doing all this or not. The fact that the way Ben handles the O6 ultimately gets them back to the island, whereas, what Locke would have done would not have gotten them back, seems to suggest that Ben is suppose to do all of this.

But at the same time...everything Ben does seems to directly defy Jacob.

So it's difficult to tell.

[K.C.]

Also, I tend to think that we won't find out the fate of Desmond and Penny for a while.

I anticipate Desmond showing up on the island by boat at the end of an episode 5 or 6 episodes down the road, and then learning what happened after that.

[TooLowBrow]

does ben know that locke will come back to life anyway? that would make the murder much less bad

[K.C.]

does ben know that locke will come back to life anyway? that would make the murder much less bad

No, I don't think so.

I think his reaction of "I'm really going to miss you, John" was pretty genuine. Just like when Ben thought he killed Locke when he originally shot him.



It's also interesting to note that Locke appeared very much, all the way alive, as opposed to the 'possessed' type of alive that Christian appears to have always been.

[TooLowBrow]

No, I don't think so.

I think his reaction of "I'm really going to miss you, John" was pretty genuine. Just like when Ben thought he killed Locke when he originally shot him.



It's also interesting to note that Locke appear very much, all the way alive, as opposed to the 'possessed' type of alive that Christian appears to have always been.

maybe he's the 'dead but still around' like jacks dad, type now

[WampusCrandle]

No, I don't think so.

I think his reaction of "I'm really going to miss you, John" was pretty genuine. Just like when Ben thought he killed Locke when he originally shot him.



It's also interesting to note that Locke appeared very much, all the way alive, as opposed to the 'possessed' type of alive that Christian appears to have always been.

i thought it was interesting that, when asked about his clothes, he said i was wearing them right before he died. so, he didn't when he was killed, he wore a tank top and when on the island he wore black pants and a nice button down blue shirt.

are we supposed to pick up on this?

[spadanko]

Also, I tend to think that we won't find out the fate of Desmond and Penny for a while.

I anticipate Desmond showing up on the island by boat at the end of an episode 5 or 6 episodes down the road, and then learning what happened after that.

i believe the Mar. 18 episode we find out their fate as well as how the other O6 get to the airport

[TooLowBrow]

i think ben wanted to wind up near locke on the island, away from the others.

he achieves this by getting locke placed in baggage and he himself moves to a different part of the plane before the big flash of light

[K.C.]

i thought it was interesting that, when asked about his clothes, he said i was wearing them right before he died. so, he didn't when he was killed, he wore a tank top and when on the island he wore black pants and a nice button down blue shirt.

are we supposed to pick up on this?

I thought he said something more along the lines of "I can guess why I'm wearing these clothes" and then he said he remembered dying.

[WampusCrandle]

I thought he said something more along the lines of "I can guess why I'm wearing these clothes" and then he said he remembered dying.

ok, i wasnt sure. at any rate, im going to watch the episode again. it was great

[K.C.]

i believe the Mar. 18 episode we find out their fate as well as how the other O6 get to the airport

Sounds about right.

I have a hard time anticipating Penny not being dead, but I guess it's plausible that something along the lines of 'Ben was on his way to kill Penny, but ran into Sayid again, and Sayid made good on his promise to kick Ben's ass if he saw him again' happened.



By the way, next week's episode looks like it'll suck. Sawyer/Kate love-fest. I seriously am not interested in going back to the triangle again. Just put Sawyer with Juliet, and leave Kate and Jack to dig each others eyes out.

[hammersavage]

Thanks for the recap as always KC. I thought tonights episode was ok at best. I wasn't surprised by anything and saw most of it coming. Still great but last week was much better.

[King Imp]

Did anyone else see 4 toes on Locke's foot?

No one responded to this, so I am curious now. Anyone have any pics of this if it's true? That would be so trippy if Locke is who the statue was created for.


The way Ben has been surprised lately by some news (Hawkings being Farraday's mother, Jin being alive and Locke planning on finding Hawkings), I really hope when Ben wakes up, he is shocked that Locke is alive. Like K.C. said, Ben genuinely did act like he killed Locke for good.

[SP1!]

Ben was VERY surprised to hear Jin was alive.
Yes he was

By the way, next week's episode looks like it'll suck. Sawyer/Kate love-fest. I seriously am not interested in going back to the triangle again. Just put Sawyer with Juliet, and leave Kate and Jack to dig each others eyes out.
But its what you have been waiting for!!!?!!!

I dont understand why they want to push this as a soap opera when 90% of us dont give a shit about their love story, just get on with it already and tell us what is going on.

[TooLowBrow]

i want it to go back to when jack and sawyer were the two competing for male lead and you knew that one of them was going to have to die for the other to succeed.

do you think, by the end, that we'll lose ...

sawyer, as a warrior cut down
or
jack, as a leader who gives his life for his people?

[drusilla]

i think this may have been one of the best episodes of the season.

i do agree the ben wasn't going to kill locke initially, probably because he thought he needed locke to find a way back to the island. after locke mentioned hawkings ben realized that he didn't need him anymore so he killed him. ben is evil as hell.

i have one question about something that i can't remember: has locke ever told anyone that the wheelchair was his? do jack or kate or anyone know that locke was paralyzed? i can't remember him ever saying anything, because i feel like if they knew it would have been a lot easier for him to convince them or at least understand why the island is so special to him.

[TooLowBrow]

i just realized that abaddon was the cause for locke being on the island

that means that locke is there because widmore put him there

which, to me, makes locke look like more of a pawn to go after ben instead of someone destined to replace ben

[Dan 'Hampton]

i want it to go back to when jack and sawyer were the two competing for male lead and you knew that one of them was going to have to die for the other to succeed.

do you think, by the end, that we'll lose ...

sawyer, as a warrior cut down
or
jack, as a leader who gives his life for his people?

I can only dream.

[K.C.]

i want it to go back to when jack and sawyer were the two competing for male lead and you knew that one of them was going to have to die for the other to succeed.

do you think, by the end, that we'll lose ...

sawyer, as a warrior cut down
or
jack, as a leader who gives his life for his people?


Sawyer will go down before Jack (who may never die in the series).

There's a strong parallel in the Jack-Kate-Sawyer-Juliet thing to the book of A Tale Of Two Cities.

If that's the roadmap they're using for the love story, then Sawyer will, as you said, go out as a warrior cut down to save Jack and Kate. Juliet will be a victim of circumstance who dies with Sawyer.

[Friday]

i thought it was interesting that, when asked about his clothes, he said i was wearing them right before he died.

this is incorrect.

Locke said "I think this suit is what they were going to bury me in." when asked about why he is dressed so nicely. And then he says that he remembers dying.



This was a great episode. Thanks KC for such concise and intelligent theories... you really have your finger on the pulse of this show!
I do miss the days when I was catching up on the show and watching the episodes back to back... the time in between is a killer!

[BeerBandit]

No one responded to this, so I am curious now. Anyone have any pics of this if it's true? That would be so trippy if Locke is who the statue was created for.


The way Ben has been surprised lately by some news (Hawkings being Farraday's mother, Jin being alive and Locke planning on finding Hawkings), I really hope when Ben wakes up, he is shocked that Locke is alive. Like K.C. said, Ben genuinely did act like he killed Locke for good.
The only thing that would seem wrong would be that I didn't get the impression that when they saw the statue they recognized it as someone they knew. But we've been waiting to see someone with 4 toes, and there was locke's mangled foot showing only four little pigs.

[drusilla]

wasn't the only thing left of the statue just a foot? they really wouldn't have any way to tell who it was in that case.


does anyone have a screen-cap of locke's foot?

[K.C.]

Five toes.

http://i.iimmgg.com/images/gr/24b252e10bde3b4e1df6abf50ac63ce6.jpg

[BeerBandit]

wasn't the only thing left of the statue just a foot? they really wouldn't have any way to tell who it was in that case.


does anyone have a screen-cap of locke's foot?
That's right. I forgot that.

[drusilla]

Five toes.

http://i.iimmgg.com/images/gr/24b252e10bde3b4e1df6abf50ac63ce6.jpg

ok so we can go back to ant's theory of it being sawyer

[instrument]

So we see them all united at some point, and we see the dharma van, so is it safe to say that the plane crashed onto the island at somepoint in the 70's-80's?

We also see the same type of boats from the episode where sawyer found the beach camp and the empty beer cans and the ajira water bottles.....which woud make it seem as if they were back in the present...

Also the life magazine looked like it said 1954, prob just a prop piece but they did seem to make sure the date was legible.

Anyone else wondering if at some point in time they were training bear on the island to move the island and that's why the bear was found in the desert?

[spadanko]

Five toes.

http://i.iimmgg.com/images/gr/24b252e10bde3b4e1df6abf50ac63ce6.jpg

ok good.. i thought i saw 4 also

[instrument]

Why's everyone so obssessed
with that statue?

[WampusCrandle]

Why's everyone so obssessed
with that statue?

well, there has to be some reason that they put it in the show. and they haven't talked about it yet. the writers of this show are too good to just leave something like that out and not explain it.

[BeerBandit]

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s99/mcmookie725/untitled.jpg
this was what I saw.

[instrument]

Move on people, five toes clearly visible.

[drusilla]

i'm guessing that it was the statue's left foot that we see & these are all pictures of locke's right foot.

[TooLowBrow]

the shows producers have said the it was originally suppose to be a 6 toed statue, but that it looked to 'normal' so they changed it to 4.

i think this means that the person on whom the statue is based didnt lose a toe in an accident but was born with a deformity.

[MagillaGorillaz]

On another conspiracy besides the toes of John Locke (I think it's four), when he wakes up in Tunisia and Widmore is there next to his bed, I swear that it's Mr. Eko's voice you hear saying John first.

And the old school New York license plate. That was strange. SZU 766 was the plate number. I'm still trying to figure out if that has a hidden meaning.

[K.C.]

ok so we can go back to ant's theory of it being sawyer

I don't buy that one.

I ultimately think it's someone from the Black Rock era. We'll probably get a flashback to that time some time in Season 6 and they'll reveal it then.

[PD]

the shows producers have said the it was originally suppose to be a 6 toed statue, but that it looked to 'normal' so they changed it to 4.

i think this means that the person on whom the statue is based didnt lose a toe in an accident but was born with a deformity.

i dont think a deformity, i think other worldly.

I'm a bit disappointed that during the "pop up" of last weeks show they didn't address Ben's mother when he makes the reading joke. They address all sorts of other things.

It's weird for me seeing Lance Reddick (the guy who plays Abaddon)- since he's also on Fringe and was on The Wire (which i'm catching up on)

[hammersavage]

Didn't the producers say that the last 2 episode were produced in the opposite of what they were shown. They never could have aired last nights episode last week. Wouldn't have made sense.

[PD]

Didn't the producers say that the last 2 episode were produced in the opposite of what they were shown. They never could have aired last nights episode last week. Wouldn't have made sense.

they said they were originally written opposite;
obviously they added scenes to this one to incorporate the "316" episode.

[Doctor Manhattan]

ok so we can go back to ant's theory of it being sawyer

so Ant is getting credit for that theory?


So flight 316 landed on the runway (the one Sawyer and Kate were forced to work on)?

I am sorry if this was mentioned, I may have missed it.

[TooLowBrow]

so Ant is getting credit for that theory?


So flight 316 landed on the runway (the one Sawyer and Kate were forced to work on)?

I am sorry if this was mentioned, I may have missed it.

cesar says the other survivors of the crash also reported seeing passengers disappear

also

Locke asks whether everyone apart from the people who disappeared are accounted for. Caesar says that they are, other than those who were injured in the crash

[disneyspy]

sorry im late (stupid bowling on wednesday nights) but widmore wasnt dharma,he was a hostile(spoke latin) and jacob was never done with ben cuz ben never could hear what jacob said, he just pretended he could to manipulate the hostiles so he could be their leader. when ben took locke to see jacob he said he needed to hear what jacob said. and i always thought of that as an easter island/alexandrian type statute so the 4 toes is just a cross of ancient east/west,theres always been people on the island and it seems like the island keeps a set #number on it and as we know its not thru birth

[yojimbo7248]

I just watched last night's episode. I love it when the show focuses on Locke and Ben. I can't get enough of those two.

So, I wonder if Whidmore or Alpert could hear Jacob? As Disneyspy said, hearing seems to be the clearest indication that someone is chosen by or in good standing with the island.

Interesting look on Ben's face when Locke asked him if he knew Eloise Hawking.

Any significance to Hurley drawing the Sphinx? the camera stays on that shot for awhile. How about Ben reading Joyce's Ulysses as the plane goes down?

[instrument]

Ben apparently knew little of ellie, and seemed surprised to learn her connection with farraday.

I think ben is desperate at this point, but to say heks never "heard jacob" is obviously false, we all saw his mother tell him it wasn't time, so at some point jacob did speak to him.

[PD]

How about Ben reading Joyce's Ulysses as the plane goes down?
Yes, it was intentional; Lost often chooses books/records etc as microcosm of what is going on.

As the pop-up episode mentioned, Ulysses chronicles the main characters journey throughout a day, and is based on the Odyssey which is Odysseus travels back home.

[disneyspy]

Ben apparently knew little of ellie, and seemed surprised to learn her connection with farraday.

I think ben is desperate at this point, but to say heks never "heard jacob" is obviously false, we all saw his mother tell him it wasn't time, so at some point jacob did speak to him.

good point,i didn't put his mom as jacob together,i retract that part of my post

[K.C.]

Ben apparently knew little of ellie, and seemed surprised to learn her connection with farraday.

I think ben is desperate at this point, but to say heks never "heard jacob" is obviously false, we all saw his mother tell him it wasn't time, so at some point jacob did speak to him.

I think Ben knows enough about Elie, and she obviously knows quite a bit about him. I do think the Faraday connection caught him off guard. Ben may not even knows who Daniel Faraday is at this point, in terms of his significance...he obviously know the guy exists, because Michael was his informant of the freighter.

I agree with the desperation. Jacob cut off Ben, so he's desperate for direction.



I think the way I take all of this is that Ben wants to protect the island as is, but maintain his power in doing so.

Widmore appears to be trying to cause some sea-change on the island.

And Jacob seems to want the island protected, with neither of these guys involved in protecting it.


Right now, Ben and Jacob have common interests, but diverge when it comes to running the island. Ben wants to do it himself; Jacob wants to anoint Locke (or mostly likely Jack).





And on a side note, if the part about Widmore being on the island for 30 more years after Locke met him in 1954 is true, does that imply that Penny was born on the island????

She's at least in her late 30s.

[Doctor Manhattan]

cesar says the other survivors of the crash also reported seeing passengers disappear
http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/470/franklapidus.jpg
"Crash? The hell kind of pilot do you think I am? I put her down safe and sound right over there."

Fine, "Crash landing", "emergency landing". whatever you want to call it. But it looks like Lapidus took advantage of the fact that the hydra island had a runway. You have to agree it was nothing like 815's landing on the island.

[ChrisTheCop]

i have one question about something that i can't remember: has locke ever told anyone that the wheelchair was his? do jack or kate or anyone know that locke was paralyzed? i can't remember him ever saying anything, because i feel like if they knew it would have been a lot easier for him to convince them or at least understand why the island is so special to him.

I think the only one survivor to know that Locke was in a wheelchair prior to 2004 was Rose.
She saw him in the airport, and talked with him on the beach about how they both know how special the island is. Ben of course knows, but I dont think Kate and Jack do.

i'm guessing that it was the statue's left foot that we see & these are all pictures of locke's right foot.

As Ive pointed out before, it's ALWAYS Locke's right leg, right foot. Never the left. Odd.

[PD]

Remember,

Ben and Locke can't be killed. They must both still serve an island purpose.

[instrument]

I always found it strange that locke wouldn't think to share his experience with jack, a spinal surgeon.

Sure jack would make some lame excuse cause that's his role, but still.

And we now know that ben was lying about not being able to return if you move the island, so why hasn't widmore returned?

I noticed he said he was cast off of the island...

Think abaddons dead?

[Fatwreck86]

Ben doesn't give a shit about the losties all he cares about is personal gain. The same goes for widmore neither one is a "good guy" The O6 are just pawns in a very elaborate game.

[K.C.]

I think the only one survivor to know that Locke was in a wheelchair prior to 2004 was Rose.
She saw him in the airport, and talked with him on the beach about how they both know how special the island is. Ben of course knows, but I dont think Kate and Jack do.


He told Boone right before Boone fell off the cliff.

And it's possible that he told Walt, although all Walt says is 'Mr. Locke said a miracle happened here' so it's left pretty vague.

It's been implied by Richard that all of The Others knew about his condition, and how the island healed him.

[ChrisTheCop]

He told Boone right before Boone fell off the cliff.

And it's possible that he told Walt, although all Walt says is 'Mr. Locke said a miracle happened here' so it's left pretty vague.

It's been implied by Richard that all of The Others knew about his condition, and how the island healed him.

Well, I did indeed forget about Boone, but in my defense, I believe his question was about the 6, and I was extending it to the living survivors that still may know. So there! But I am ashamed I forgot he told Boone.

And yes, Ben, Richard etc know everything about everyone. That's a given.

[drusilla]

Well, I did indeed forget about Boone, but in my defense, I believe his question was about the 6, and I was extending it to the living survivors that still may know. So there! But I am ashamed I forgot he told Boone.

And yes, Ben, Richard etc know everything about everyone. That's a given.

ahem


& yes it was about the 6. mostly jack.

[ChrisTheCop]

Sorry, in the midst of defending myself, I had forgotten who had posted the query.

[instrument]

That shotgun from the hydra station that the new survivors found looked like the same one ben pulled from the piano bench in season 4

[instrument]

You guys forgot about sawyer, locke's dad told him in the black rock.

[WampusCrandle]

You guys forgot about sawyer, locke's dad told him in the black rock.

what did he say?

[ChrisTheCop]

You guys forgot about sawyer, locke's dad told him in the black rock.

what did he say?

He did tell Sawyer that he threw Locke out of a window and paralyzed him for life,
but I dont think Sawyer believed him. Could come up though I suppose.

[instrument]

No, cause while they were walking away sawyer asked him if it were true
, and locke affirmed.

[S0S]

I wonder what the next story arc will be?

Jack,Kate and Hugo & Locke are in different times?

Widmore & Linus' differences seem to be the story for the rest of the season.

[WampusCrandle]

I wonder what the next story arc will be?

Jack,Kate and Hugo & Locke are in different times?

Widmore & Linus' differences seem to be the story for the rest of the season.

im assuming that the main story arc is getting back to the island, and, for me, an obvious battle between everyone that is on the island, to either keep it safe or to exploit it.

[WampusCrandle]

looks like Sawyer, Juliet, Jin, and other asian dude are all they way back in time, when the statute was whole, and now they are back to normal time. looks like an Egyptian type of statue.

[TooLowBrow]

looks like Sawyer, Juliet, Jin, and other asian dude are all they way back in time, when the statute was whole, and now they are back to normal time. looks like an Egyptian type of statue.

how many toes does sayid have?

[Doctor Manhattan]

Wait, what?

They went to "three years later", Dharma is active and Sawyer is now called LaFleur and is head of security!

I really want to see more of the statue.

[hammersavage]

I thought La Fours was head of security.

[WampusCrandle]

how many toes does sayid have?

we dont know, we saw the back of the statue from the viewpoint of the well

[WampusCrandle]

wow, so woman can get pregnant past 4-5 month period. so, obviously, there is something that happened between then and now that stops this, but i really want to know!!!

and Daniel got married and is a dad! oi!

[TooLowBrow]

who is the baby gonna turn out to be?

ben?
locke?
jacob?

[Doctor Manhattan]

So Juliet and Jin are using their real names but Sawyer isn't? I didn't catch Miles' name. Edit: Guess Sawyer wrote himself into that fake name (not that Sawyer isn't fake as well), while the others didn't need to.

And they have spent 3 years doing this?

What a cool fucking show!

[Doctor Manhattan]

and Daniel got married and is a dad! oi!

I missed that.

[Doctor Manhattan]

who is the baby gonna turn out to be?

ben?
locke?
jacob?

But we saw Ben and Locke born in other places and not delivered by Juliet. And Richard already knows about Jacob in the 1950's, this baby was born in the 1970's

Smashing Pumpkins sold their song to Visa?

[WampusCrandle]

I missed that.

it was a real quick one line, but it took me by surprise. and you are right, this show is great!

[Doogie]

who is the baby gonna turn out to be?

ben?
locke?
jacob?

Ethan...and no I dont believe it, just having some fun with the speculation.

And I like that Sawyer took the name "Le Fleur." He is "The Flower", part of the cycle of life of the island.

[Doctor Manhattan]

Sawyer just mentioned Nestor Carbonell's eyeliner! Not a big deal, I just thought they would ignore that. It's something the actor has, not just Richard Alpert.

[TooLowBrow]

another egyptian reference... the ankh

[WampusCrandle]

sawyer and juliet = love

didnt see that coming

[Doogie]

sawyer and juliet = love

didnt see that coming

C'mon...Governor Patterson saw that one coming!! It was only a matter of time before their romance bloomed. Now I am waiting to watch it all get complicated once everyone else gets back to the island.

[Doctor Manhattan]

So, Jack and Kate will be upset? I never liked the hooking up on this show with these 4 characters. I have never found it interesting.

I feel bad for Juliet, she spent 3 years on the island before flight 815 showed up, and now she spent another 3 years on the island in the 1970's?

[TooLowBrow]

So, Jack and Kate will be upset? I never liked the hooking up on this show with these 4 characters. I have never found in interesting.


I feel bad for Juliet, she spent 3 years on the island before flight 815 showed up, and now she spent another 3 years on the island in the 1970's?

if shes having a good life on the island then it doesnt matter when in time she is.


also, after 3 yrs being in love has she finally told sawyer all she knows about the others, the island, etc?

[WampusCrandle]

Sawyer just mentioned Nestor Carbonell's eyeliner! Not a big deal, I just thought they would ignore that. It's something the actor has, not just Richard Alpert.

his wikipedia says that its genetics.

and im completely wrong, Daniel didn't marry/ become the dad.

damn my lazy fucking ears.

[TooLowBrow]

does jin know english yet?

[WampusCrandle]

wow, im thoroughly happy, though i dont want to wait 2 weeks for the next episode, which looks damn good!

i can't imagine where the story line is going to go, but im really excited. i dont think i have felt this for any other show ever!

[Drunky McBetidont]

why didnt locke end up in the same time as jack and kate and hurley and sayid? jin, locke and ben are many years in the future, very strange. they should have brought walt and aaron.

and, after three years i would have thought sawyer would have cruised to the mainland on the sub at least once.

what happened to faraday? think he went hostile and joined richard alpert? it was cool how he recognized little red. cute.

[stump12]

When did we see Locke being born before? On the popup of last week it mentioned we dont know who Lockes mother is. I think that was a hint to tonights ep.
Faraday is gonna try to hook up with young Charlotte.

[K.C.]

why didnt locke end up in the same time as jack and kate and hurley and sayid? jin, locke and ben are many years in the future, very strange.

and, after three years i would have thought sawyer would have cruised to the mainland on the sub at least once.

what happened to faraday? think he went hostile and joined richard alpert? it was cool how he recognized little red. cute.

They made a point to kind of point out in the 'enhanced' episode at 8, that the fact that Locke didn't bring everyone back (Desmond? Walt?), it could have had unpredictable results.

So I wonder if that's the unpredictable portion of this...

As of right now, we know:

Team 1977:
-Sawyer (head of DHARMA security)
-Miles (Sawyer's security partner)
-Juliet (DHARMA mechanic)
-Jin (DHARMA security/scout)
-Daniel (DHARMA construction -- remember, he was building the orchid in the Premier.
-Jack
-Kate
-Hurley
-Sayid

Team 2007:
-Locke
-Ben
-Sun
-Frank
-Caesar
-Iliana


Rose and Bernard are still unaccounted for (but probably dead).

[stump12]

We didnt see Syaid yet.

[K.C.]

Tonight's ep was better than expected...I'll be extremely pissed if Sawyer ditches Juliet for Kate, though.

Kate brings nothing to the table. That scene where Sawyer was begging Juliet to stay was adorable.


Oh, and we saw the statue!!! At least the back of it.

[K.C.]

We didnt see Syaid yet.

Somebody didn't watch the preview.

[Drunky McBetidont]

Tonight's ep was better than expected...I'll be extremely pissed if Sawyer ditches Juliet for Kate, though.

Kate brings nothing to the table. That scene where Sawyer was begging Juliet to stay was adorable.


Oh, and we saw the statue!!! At least the back of it.

statue was very cool. i want back story on that time period.

[TooLowBrow]

and, after three years i would have thought sawyer would have cruised to the mainland on the sub at least once.


maybe he did and came back

i thought juliet was going to leave for a bit because of how they mentioned that the sub was coming back in 2 wks

it wouldve been cool if she left, then sawyer and juliet realized that they missed each other, then (big surprise) juliet comes back and they make out a bit...

[stump12]

I hate watching the previews cause they show too much. Like I dont have to wait and be surprised that Sayid is there.
Sawyer keeps saying he has nothing to go back to. Unless he thinks he can save his parents.

[WampusCrandle]

does jin know english yet?

he seems to know enough to get around

[WampusCrandle]

As of right now, we know:

Team 1977:
-Sawyer (head of DHARMA security)
-Miles (Sawyer's security partner)
-Juliet (DHARMA mechanic)
-Jin (DHARMA security/scout)
-Daniel (DHARMA construction -- remember, he was building the orchid in the Premier.
-Jack
-Kate
-Hurley
-Sayid

Team 2007:
-Locke
-Ben
-Sun
-Frank
-Caesar
-Iliana


Rose and Bernard are still unaccounted for (but probably dead).

i definitely missed something. Kate, Hurley, Jack, and Sayid were just taken right out of the plane, and placed into 1977, and the rest of the plane, Locke, and Sun are there in 2007? i would have just assumed that all the survivors went to the 70s.

i need to start watching the last episode at 8 before the new episodes now. im getting all antsy watching that im missing things.

[K.C.]

i definitely missed something. Kate, Hurley, Jack, and Sayid were just taken right out of the plane, and placed into 1977, and the rest of the plane, Locke, and Sun are there in 2007? i would have just assumed that all the survivors went to the 70s.

i need to start watching the last episode at 8 before the new episodes now. im getting all antsy watching that im missing things.

The Hydra had Ben's gun, and all his maps including the one he drew in Season 3, and the map to the Temple, a copy of which he gave Alex last year.

And it was abandoned...if it was the 70s, DHARMA would be there.

So it would have to be the day of the crash.


What wouldn't surprise me is if there's some kind of time rift between the Hydra island and the Main island, and that by going to the main island, everyone ends up in the 70s.

[TooLowBrow]

he seems to know enough to get around

after 3 years he should speak it as good as me

[hammersavage]

They need to put a version of the series on DVD in chronological order. It was be a million times less compelling but also without confusion.

[IMSlacker]

Rose and Bernard are still unaccounted for (but probably dead).

Fingers crossed.