President-Elect Obama Thread

[TheMojoPin]

Well, like an idiot, I think I nuked the old Obama thread by mashing the keyboard with my gigantic retard fingers (LordJezo, you'll want to repost your cartoon here since it was when I was trying to merge your thread to the old Obama thread that everything went kerblooey). In the meantime, here's a new one kicked off with an op-ed piece I read in the NYT a few days ago that I thought was pretty spot on in highlighting some of my concerns with Obama recenly:

Senator Barack Obama stirred his legions of supporters, and raised our hopes, promising to change the old order of things. He spoke with passion about breaking out of the partisan mold of bickering and catering to special pleaders, promised to end President Bush’s abuses of power and subverting of the Constitution and disowned the big-money power brokers who have corrupted Washington politics.

Now there seems to be a new Barack Obama on the hustings. First, he broke his promise to try to keep both major parties within public-financing limits for the general election. His team explained that, saying he had a grass-roots-based model and that while he was forgoing public money, he also was eschewing gold-plated fund-raisers. These days he’s on a high-roller hunt.

The new Barack Obama has abandoned his vow to filibuster an electronic wiretapping bill if it includes an immunity clause for telecommunications companies that amounts to a sanctioned cover-up of Mr. Bush’s unlawful eavesdropping after 9/11.

In January, when he was battling for Super Tuesday votes, Mr. Obama said that the 1978 law requiring warrants for wiretapping, and the special court it created, worked. “We can trace, track down and take out terrorists while ensuring that our actions are subject to vigorous oversight and do not undermine the very laws and freedom that we are fighting to defend,” he declared.

Now, he supports the immunity clause as part of what he calls a compromise but actually is a classic, cynical Washington deal that erodes the power of the special court, virtually eliminates “vigorous oversight” and allows more warrantless eavesdropping than ever.

The Barack Obama of the primary season used to brag that he would stand before interest groups and tell them tough truths. The new Mr. Obama tells evangelical Christians that he wants to expand President Bush’s policy of funneling public money for social spending to religious-based organizations — a policy that violates the separation of church and state and turns a government function into a charitable donation.

He says he would not allow those groups to discriminate in employment, as Mr. Bush did, which is nice. But the Constitution exists to protect democracy, no matter who is president and how good his intentions may be. (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/04/opinion/04fri1.html?_r=1&oref=slogin)

[DolaMight]

I heard Obama is a muslim.

There, "All things Obama" is completely restored. You're welcome.

PS - Maybe JustJon can program an admin interface for you with big letters and buttons. Like those old people remotes.
http://www.lvh.org/assets/your_lvh/healthy_you/2008-05/againg.jpg
Look how happy you would be.

[HBox]

Obama announced that when he accept the nomination in August he's not doing it at the Pepsi center but at 75,000 seat Invesco field. That will be quite a scene.

[Furtherman]

Somebody get Mojo a Jitterbug.

[Recyclerz]

Mojo must be a bitter, frustrated Hilary supporter that is going to vote for John McCain.

PS: Here's a link to a David Brooks column that says "Surprise! Obama is a politician that will do what it takes to win." Which is the kind of politician I'd like to vote for this time around, just to change things up a bit.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/20/opinion/20brooks.html

[Kevin]

I think when he gets elected, Obama is going to shock everyone by revealing he is actually a M..

























MASSIVELY RELIGIOUS JEW!

[LordJezo]

After many months of work the first in a series of (hopefully) many cartoons has been released. Editing and script revision was done by me and animation work on it was done by a friend of mine.

We are now putting it out there (along with a bunch of other shorts) to get our feelings hurt and dreams crushed by the internet public.


http://extraspecialops.com/images/main/specialops.png

The Extra Special Ops are a ragtag team assembled to protect America from the progressive supervillainy of Pox and his possible life partner Diva.

The main feature we want to put out there is one about Obama since it's some topical stuff. Thank goodness he won the primary or all the work would have been wasted.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/gkNvETd5ZmE&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/gkNvETd5ZmE&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

All the rest of the videos are here in case anyone is interested in seeing more:
http://www.youtube.com/user/ExtraSpecialOps

Awesome?

You agree, right? Comment and let us know, or instead let us know if you think it’s the worst thing you have ever seen. We have been working on this project for quite some time now so we need all the feedback we can get.

[epo]

In a surprising move, Senator Jim Webb from Virginia has removed his name from the Vice Presidential candidate list. List to story here. (http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/07/webb_under_no_circumstances_wi.php)

"Last week I communicated to Senator Obama and his presidential campaign my firm intention to remain in the United States Senate, where I believe I am best equipped to serve the people of Virginia and this country. Under no circumstances will I be a candidate for Vice President."

Wow. That's quite a move as Webb was definitely one of the "it" names on everyone's list.

[scottinnj]

I think when he gets elected, Obama is going to shock everyone by revealing he is actually a M..


MASSIVELY RELIGIOUS JEW!


What Kabala? That's so hack. It's cooler to be a Scientologist, or for the hotness factor, he could go with the old-school Mormon idea, as long as all his wives are as bangable as Michelle.

[scottinnj]

In a surprising move, Senator Jim Webb from Virginia has removed his name from the Vice Presidential candidate list. List to story here. (http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/07/webb_under_no_circumstances_wi.php)



Wow. That's quite a move as Webb was definitely one of the "it" names on everyone's list.

Double WOW! I'm so disappointed. Maybe we could coax him into the SOD position?

[badmonkey]

Double WOW! I'm so disappointed. Maybe we could coax him into the SOD position?

http://pixhost.eu/avaxhome/avaxhome/2007-09-28/Speak_English_or_Die_85.jpg

That's not going to help him with the hispanic vote at all.

[DolaMight]

has anyone read the obama page on snopes? check out these truths

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/obama.asp

Illinois senator Barack Obama is a "radical Muslim" who "will not recite the Pledge of Allegiance."

Barack Obama was sworn into office on the Quran.

Photograph shows Barack Obama without his hand over his heart while the U.S. national anthem is being played.

Barack Obama's church has a "non-negotiable commitment to Africa" that is covertly Muslim and excludes non-blacks.

Barack Obama has been endorsed for President of the U.S. by the Ku Klux Klan.

Barack Obama's presidential campaign is being funded by Hugo Chávez.

Editorial criticizes anachronisms in Barack Obama's 2007 Selma speech.

Barack Obama urged his supporters to join him in changing "the greatest nation in the history of the world."

Photograph shows Barack Obama with various family members.

Editorial criticizes Barack Obama's political stances.

Access to Michelle Obama's senior thesis has been restricted until after the 2008 presidential election.

Photograph shows Barack Obama holding a telephone upside down.

E-mail reproduces Barack Obama's statement about the U.S. national anthem.

E-mail from missionary describes Barack Obama's connection to political events in Kenya.

The Book of Revelation describes the anti-Christ as someone with characteristics matching those of Barack Obama.

E-mail lists fifty lies told by Barack Obama.

E-mail provides biography of Barack Obama's mother.

E-mail lists quotes garnered from Barack Obama's books.

Barack Obama does not qualify as a natural-born citizen of the U.S. because his mother was too young.

During a campaign stop, Barack Obama said that he had visited "fifty-seven states."

Barack Obama announces every time he claps a child in America dies from gun violence; kid in classroom tells him to stop doing that.*

Native Americans dubbed Barack Obama "Walking Eagle."*

During the 1960's, Robert F. Kennedy said he believed a black man could become President of the United States within forty years.

The bulk of donations to the Obama campaign come from a handful of wealthy foreign financiers.

[epo]

has anyone read the obama page on snopes? check out these truths

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/obama.asp



Therein lies the danger of being the unknown "brand". As you define yourself, the other side is also working dilligently to do it for you whether it's true or not.

[iscream22]

I was at work today having a somewhat political conversation and we were discussing the candidates and all of a sudden a co-worker chips in saying "im not voting for Obama because his name sounds like hes a islam". Hands down, thats the dumb quote of the day!

[DolaMight]

Therein lies the danger of being the unknown "brand". As you define yourself, the other side is also working dilligently to do it for you whether it's true or not.

I heard a rumor that Obama has fathered a black child. If it's true he's finished.

I think it's the same group that killed McCain's 00 primary campaign by claiming he fathered a black child.

[angrymissy]

Obama nails a 3pt shot w/ the troops:
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/HKFmifLCtv4&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/HKFmifLCtv4&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[Zorro]

I heard a rumor that Obama has fathered a black child. If it's true he's finished.

I think it's the same group that killed McCain's 00 primary campaign by claiming he fathered a black child.

Two...both girls

[TeeBone]

http://www.pocopattino.com/shoephotos/Haveana-FlipFlop-Gold.jpg

[epo]

http://www.pocopattino.com/shoephotos/Haveana-FlipFlop-Gold.jpg

If you are talking about offshore drilling policies, that photo belongs in the "All Things McCain (http://www.ronfez.net/forums/showthread.php?t=42413&page=16)" thread.

[scottinnj]

Two...both girls


And he says he's pro-choice....FLIP-FLOPPER!!!

[A.J.]

Obama nails a 3pt shot w/ the troops:
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/HKFmifLCtv4&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/HKFmifLCtv4&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

He could start for the Knicks.

[angrymissy]

D-AYUM!

Obama speaking in Germany

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44861000/jpg/_44861049_crowd2_466_grab.jpg
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44861000/jpg/_44861047_crowd466_grab.jpg

[TheMojoPin]

D-AYUM!

Obama speaking in Germany

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44861000/jpg/_44861049_crowd2_466_grab.jpg
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44861000/jpg/_44861047_crowd466_grab.jpg

Impressive, but the wings and being covered in a gold is a bit much, even for him.

[Recyclerz]

In the old days, that many Germans following a charismatic politician would have been a problem.

EDIT: Impressive, but the wings and being covered in a gold is a bit much, even for him.

Let Obama be Obama, hayta. ;)

[led37zep]

My own personal feelings aside I got the following e-mail from my friend who works as a Staffer on the Hill for a Senator (that is not McCain or Obama). I wanted to share it here.

"Plus, based on my own personal bias, the speech was so bad. Well
delivered, but I can't shake the impression that I've been listening to
this same speech since the beginning of the primary season. A lot of
empty rhetoric that feeds on projection and guilt. At least with his
race speech he delivered some substance and goals he hoped to accomplish
while President, this speech provided nothing substantive, just a lot of
fluffy language about why the world is in such a bad place right now and
the only answer is Obama the Messiah's ascendance into the seat of
President."

discuss.

[mendyweiss]

D-AYUM!

Obama speaking in Germany

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44861000/jpg/_44861049_crowd2_466_grab.jpg
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44861000/jpg/_44861047_crowd466_grab.jpg
85 % Of The World Is Working
The Other 15 Come Here
It's A Fucking Playground For The Cocksuckers !!

[TheMojoPin]

85 % Of The World Is Working
The Other 15 Come Here
It's A Fucking Playground For The Cocksuckers !!

Well played.

[Freakshow]

That thing is called the victory column? What exactly have they won--I think their record in championships is 0-2*.


*Prussian wars don't count, that's kinda like the buffalo bills claiming champsionships from the pre-superbowl AFL.

[Zorro]

My own personal feelings aside I got the following e-mail from my friend who works as a Staffer on the Hill for a Senator (that is not McCain or Obama). I wanted to share it here.

"Plus, based on my own personal bias, the speech was so bad. Well
delivered, but I can't shake the impression that I've been listening to
this same speech since the beginning of the primary season. A lot of
empty rhetoric that feeds on projection and guilt. At least with his
race speech he delivered some substance and goals he hoped to accomplish
while President, this speech provided nothing substantive, just a lot of
fluffy language about why the world is in such a bad place right now and
the only answer is Obama the Messiah's ascendance into the seat of
President."

discuss.


Our whole system is rigged for "nothing substantive".

We are not a society that admires intellectuals and thoughtfulness.

[Recyclerz]

Our whole system is rigged for "nothing substantive".

We are not a society that admires intellectuals and thoughtfulness.

Seconded. Unfortunately (or not), you have to dig and do your homework to make a reasoned, adult decision in our elections but there's enough available to do so. After you do so, you can sit back and enjoy the children's narratives and meta-analysis that passes for political coverage in our MSM.

And while I'll admit that some of the stuff coming out of Obama's campaign is a little "lite" for my tastes, it appears his crew knows how to play the game. And some of the policy statements coming out of McCain are downright wacky.

[epo]

To sum it up quickly, Obama tried to:


Introduce himself
Lay out the history of US/European relations since WWII
Define our shared value of hope/freedom
Explain the need to come together to fight global challenges including extremists.
Call to action for Europe to come together with the United States to fight those challenges.


I've heard the speech twice today on XM130 and will watch it on You Tube tonight. Considering the situation overseas, it was a well-layed out call to our friends to build for a strengthened long-term relationship.

[angrymissy]

Meanwhile, McCain makes a campaign stop... at a supermarket

http://image.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2008/07/24/0724_mccain_460x276.jpg

[TooLowBrow]

Meanwhile, McCain makes a campaign stop... at a supermarket

http://image.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2008/07/24/0724_mccain_460x276.jpg

his hand looks like a hand-shaped hairless scrotum

[Ritalin]

his hand looks like a hand-shaped hairless scrotum

Check yourself into Four Winds immediately.

[El Mudo]

That thing is called the victory column? What exactly have they won--I think their record in championships is 0-2*.


*Prussian wars don't count, that's kinda like the buffalo bills claiming champsionships from the pre-superbowl AFL.


How could they not?? Prussia WAS Germany for all intents and purposes till the Nazis got rid of it in the 30s (and the Russians effectively "ethnically cleansed" the area in 1945)...you might as well say Bavaria isn't Germany, which is ludicrous


And you could make the argument that they technically didn't "lose" World War One (at least not in the strictest military sense...their armies were still well armed and capable, the government collapsed around them, and the Allied offensives of 1918, particularly ours, were a DISASTER for the most part....you try moving over a million men, horses, and supplies on 3 roads in a region where it rains every day...yeah......).

And they did kick the ass of the best military power on earth in the 19th century (that would be the French) several times, whether as part of a coalition (1812) or by themselves (Franco-Prussian War)

[epo]

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Q-9ry38AhbU&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Q-9ry38AhbU&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[A.J.]

D-AYUM!

Obama speaking in Germany

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44861000/jpg/_44861049_crowd2_466_grab.jpg
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44861000/jpg/_44861047_crowd466_grab.jpg

The Germans love politcal rallies.

Leni Riefenstahl would have done wonders for Obama.

http://farlane.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/nuremberg-rally.jpg

[Freakshow]

How could they not?? Prussia WAS Germany for all intents and purposes till the Nazis got rid of it in the 30s (and the Russians effectively "ethnically cleansed" the area in 1945)...you might as well say Bavaria isn't Germany, which is ludicrous


And you could make the argument that they technically didn't "lose" World War One (at least not in the strictest military sense...their armies were still well armed and capable, the government collapsed around them, and the Allied offensives of 1918, particularly ours, were a DISASTER for the most part....you try moving over a million men, horses, and supplies on 3 roads in a region where it rains every day...yeah......).

And they did kick the ass of the best military power on earth in the 19th century (that would be the French) several times, whether as part of a coalition (1812) or by themselves (Franco-Prussian War)

So I was reading the Dictionary. Turns out the Zebra did it...

[Dirtybird12]

Barack also sang back up for the scorpions while they sang winds of CHANGE..

While Barack Obama spoke in front of hundreds of thousands in Berlin today, John McCain visited a German restaurant ..:banning:story here (http://embeds.blogs.foxnews.com/2008/07/24/mccain-at-german-restaurant-while-obama-is-in-germany/)

[epo]

Barack also sang back up for the scorpions while they sang winds of CHANGE..

While Barack Obama spoke in front of hundreds of thousands in Berlin today, John McCain visited a German restaurant ..:banning:story here (http://embeds.blogs.foxnews.com/2008/07/24/mccain-at-german-restaurant-while-obama-is-in-germany/)

From that story:

While Barack Obama spoke in front of hundreds of thousands in Berlin today, John McCain visited a German restaurant here. He jabbed his opponent for his speech on foreign soil while he is still a candidate, “Well I’d love to give a speech in Germany to– a political speech –or a speech that maybe the German people would be interested in,” McCain told reporters, “But I would much prefer to do it as president of the United States rather than as a candidate for the office of the presidency.”

Wasn't McCain in Mexico & Columbia just a couple of weeks ago? Didn't McCain blast Obama for not going to the Middle East & Europe?

As McCain takes this path of rhetoric, he looks less and less credible.

[Jujubees2]

From that story:



Wasn't McCain in Mexico & Columbia just a couple of weeks ago? Didn't McCain blast Obama for not going to the Middle East & Europe?

As McCain takes this path of rhetoric, he looks less and less credible.

Does this make McCain a flip-flopper?

[epo]

Does this make McCain a flip-flopper?

I dunno. I guess I would say not, I would just guess it makes him look like an asshole.

[Zorro]

http://www.tnr.com/toc/story.html?id=6e9f4a42-9540-4d99-aba2-25adc276c25d&p=1

First Paragraph
So much for "Obama Love." That's the title of John McCain's new web ad, which strings together clips of cable news pundits gushing over Obama like besotted teens. This romance has been a prominent story line of Obama's entire campaign, and clearly elements of it are true: "I felt this thrill going up my leg," Chris Matthews crows in one clip flagged in the ad. But scratch the surface, and you'll find a lot of mixed feelings behind the Obama "love." Reporters are grumbling more and more that the campaign is acting like the Prom Queen. They gripe that it is "arrogant" and "control[ling]," and the campaign's own belief that Obama is poised to make history isn't endearing, either. The press certainly helped Obama get so far so fast; the question is, how far can he get if his campaign alienates them?

Last Paragraph

Reporters who have covered Obama's biography or his problems with certain voter blocs have been challenged the most aggressively. "They're terrified of people poking around Obama's life," one reporter says. "The whole Obama narrative is built around this narrative that Obama and David Axelrod built, and, like all stories, it's not entirely true. So they have to be protective of the crown jewels." Another reporter notes that, during the last year, Obama's old friends and Harvard classmates were requested not to talk to the press without permission.

[sailor]

now that their numbers won't have any effect, obama is calling for florida and michigan delegates to be seated (http://iowaindependent.com/3373/obama-full-seating-for-calendar-cheaters-fl-mi) at the dnc. that is so shallow and transparent a move.

[Knowledged_one]

Does he sing the Cyndi Lauper tune True Colors? Because now he's got the nomination he has flip flopped on releasing oil reserves, something that McCain ads have been hammering him for here in Ohio

The guy is an empty suit, and he steals lines from Bono's speeches and uses them as his own

[epo]

Does he sing the Cyndi Lauper tune True Colors? Because now he's got the nomination he has flip flopped on releasing oil reserves, something that McCain ads have been hammering him for here in Ohio



McCain & Obama both made the same policy switch on oil reserves & oil drilling.

http://ganjataz.com/general-bollocks/images/by-GT/forum-shitz/pot-kettle-black.jpg

[high fly]

Dug Barack in B-town, but really enjoyed it when he walked onto the basketball court in Kuwait, and without a warmup or practice shots, proceeded to drain an impressive shot from three-point land........

[TeeBone]

http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:Gd9M8pJ2k6ZV_M:http://www.pocopattino.com/shoephotos/Haveana-FlipFlop-Gold.jpg

[TheMojoPin]

I'm pretty fed up with Obama at this point. He's looking to be even worse than Bill when it comes to being a Democrat in name only.

[Zorro]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOy5borSd9g

Bill "It's all about me" Clinton

[NewYorkDragons80]

I'm pretty fed up with Obama at this point. He's looking to be even worse than Bill when it comes to being a Democrat in name only.
I'm thinking of the kinds of people who throw out the term "Republican in Name Only" and I'm thinking you're better than that.

[TheMojoPin]

I'm thinking of the kinds of people who throw out the term "Republican in Name Only" and I'm thinking you're better than that.

I want to vote for a real Democrat, not someone cowardly pandering to the Right and stabbing his party and base in the back. On top of that, these recent policy flips just represent REALLY poor decision making in general and the kind that I ideally don't want to see in the Oval Office.

As of right now I'm sitting this one out. Can't stand the Big Two and the 3rd party candidates are even more insane than usual.

[Knowledged_one]

I want to vote for a real Democrat, not someone cowardly pandering to the Right and stabbing his party and base in the back. On top of that, these recent policy flips just represent REALLY poor decision making in general and the kind that I ideally don't want to see in the Oval Office.

As of right now I'm sitting this one out. Can't stand the Big Two and the 3rd party candidates are even more insane than usual.

Its the typical democrat way promise one thing get elected/nominated then change what you say

Same thing Pelosi and that bunch did when they promised change if the democrats got control over congress

[TheMojoPin]

Its the typical democrat way promise one thing get elected/nominated then change what you say

Same thing Pelosi and that bunch did when they promised change if the democrats got control over congress

The Democrats couldn't do anything except basically hold the fort until they ideally took over the White House. Their majority was too miniscule and anything significan was just going to be stomped on by Bush.

[Knowledged_one]

The Democrats couldn't do anything except basically hold the fort until they ideally took over the White House. Their majority was too miniscule and anything significan was just going to be stomped on by Bush.

Yeah but Newt and the contract with america got things done with Bill in teh white house

[A.J.]

Its the typical democrat way promise one thing get elected/nominated then change what you say

Same thing Pelosi and that bunch did when they promised change if the democrats got control over congress

The Democrats couldn't do anything except basically hold the fort until they ideally took over the White House. Their majority was too miniscule and anything significan was just going to be stomped on by Bush.

See what happened (or didn't) during Clinton 1993-95 when they had the White House AND Congress.

[TheMojoPin]

Yeah but Newt and the contract with america got things done with Bill in teh white house

They also had a much larger majority.

[Knowledged_one]

very true

all i am talking about mainly is they promise one thing and then when they get what they want those promises never come to fruition. Do you think they knew at the time they were making these promises that they wouldnt be able to get things done because of the lack of majority?

from the following site: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0207/2908.html

The speaker has denied Republicans a vote on their proposals during congressional debates -- a tactic she previously declared oppressive and promised to end. Pelosi has opened the floor to a Republican alternative just once.

Pelosi set a high standard for herself when she pledged to make this "the most ethical Congress in history" -- a boast that was the political equivalent of leading with her chin. And some critics have been happy to hit it.

The article goes on to point out that she put Rep. William Jefferson (D-La.), who had $90,000 in alleged bribe money in his freezer, on the Homeland Security Committee

[foodcourtdruide]

I want to vote for a real Democrat, not someone cowardly pandering to the Right and stabbing his party and base in the back. On top of that, these recent policy flips just represent REALLY poor decision making in general and the kind that I ideally don't want to see in the Oval Office.

As of right now I'm sitting this one out. Can't stand the Big Two and the 3rd party candidates are even more insane than usual.

I strongly disagree wtih you Mojo. While I'm also disappointed in Obama regarding wiretapping and drilling, the alternative in McCain is awful. Obama is not the perfect candidate for me, but I dread having a President John McCain. You can say I'm settling, but I really have no choice.

[TheMojoPin]

I strongly disagree wtih you Mojo. While I'm also disappointed in Obama regarding wiretapping and drilling, the alternative in McCain is awful. Obama is not the perfect candidate for me, but I dread having a President John McCain. You can say I'm settling, but I really have no choice.

I didn't say I'm voting for McCain.

Besides, it doesn't matter if I don't vote for Obama. He's winning Illinois no matter what.

[Knowledged_one]

I strongly disagree wtih you Mojo. While I'm also disappointed in Obama regarding wiretapping and drilling, the alternative in McCain is awful. Obama is not the perfect candidate for me, but I dread having a President John McCain. You can say I'm settling, but I really have no choice.

and why is McCain so bad?

[A.J.]

and why is McCain so bad?

He'll make the White House smell like old man.

[Knowledged_one]

He'll make the White House smell like old man.

kinda like Monty Burns

[foodcourtdruide]

and why is McCain so bad?

I disagree with a lot of his economic proposals and foreign policy. It may be cliche' to say he'll be like re-electing Bush and I honestly don't think he's going to be THAT bad, but this country can't afford not to change courses (hey, another cliche'!).

I don't believe in republican economic solutions. The more I think about them and research them, the more I think they are naive. Putting faith in corporations over the American people may have short-term benefits, but in the long-term when capital is your sole reason for functioning you will let American prosperity take a back seat.

[foodcourtdruide]

I didn't say I'm voting for McCain.

Besides, it doesn't matter if I don't vote for Obama. He's winning Illinois no matter what.

This is true, same is likely in NY, but I still feel some sense of personal responsibility to vote. Maybe I just have an inflated sense of self importance.

[sailor]

I disagree with a lot of his economic proposals and foreign policy. It may be cliche' to say he'll be like re-electing Bush and I honestly don't think he's going to be THAT bad, but this country can't afford not to change courses (hey, another cliche'!).

I don't believe in republican economic solutions. The more I think about them and research them, the more I think they are naive. Putting faith in corporations over the American people may have short-term benefits, but in the long-term when capital is your sole reason for functioning you will let American prosperity take a back seat.

corporations are groups of people.

[foodcourtdruide]

corporations are groups of people.

Yes, they are definitely people. I don't think you will get anyone to argue that point.

[NewYorkDragons80]

I want to vote for a real Democrat, not someone cowardly pandering to the Right and stabbing his party and base in the back. On top of that, these recent policy flips just represent REALLY poor decision making in general and the kind that I ideally don't want to see in the Oval Office.

As of right now I'm sitting this one out. Can't stand the Big Two and the 3rd party candidates are even more insane than usual.
I'm not saying you have to vote for Obama or give in to the third party system. I'm just saying that I'm not fond of the people who say __________ in name only. Based on your positions in 2000, 04, and now, I think it's safe for you to conclude that this is the Democratic party, for better or for worse. If you're expecting something else, that ship sailed a while ago. If you want something further from the center and start throwing around RINO or DINO, then you might not be a republican or democrat. What I'll also say is that based on what you've said for the past few election cycles, your standards might be too high. Thankfully, the Republicans really redeemed themselves in my eyes for giving us something new with McCain. No matter what, this is a departure from the theocratic elements who've had significant pull for over a decade

[TheMojoPin]

I'm not saying you have to vote for Obama or give in to the third party system. I'm just saying that I'm not fond of the people who say __________ in name only. Based on your positions in 2000, 04, and now, I think it's safe for you to conclude that this is the Democratic party, for better or for worse. If you're expecting something else, that ship sailed a while ago.

Then I'll just never vote Democrat for prez if they can't get their shit together. It's really not complicated.

[HBox]

I don't have a problem with the offshore drilling thing. He said he'd only do it in return for major funding for alternative energy funding. I've always been willing to do that. And it's what I expected from him. I figured he'd be willing to make compromises like this to advance his agenda. It's one of the majort hings I took from his book.

This windfall tax thing and the opening the oil reserves are obvious panders but I've learned that if these two can't have a genuine honest debate on energy (and they certainly aren't) then no one can so I'm taking everything they all say with a huge grain of salt. I figure either is gonna do what they want to do in the first place and it will be much smarter than what they are saying.

The only thing Obama has done since the nomination to really bother me is the wiretapping thing. But it isn't a deal breaker at all.

But he also said this, and I'm glad he did:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/akjXqfvLu28&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/akjXqfvLu28&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

"It's like they take pride in being ignorant."

[ChrisTheCop]

I'd rather have a windmill in my backyard than a tire gauge in my pocket.

Both sides are just being silly on this one...and on everything lately.
They remind me of 2 schoolgirls running for class president.

[sailor]

Yes, they are definitely people. I don't think you will get anyone to argue that point.

so your point is "putting faith in people instead of people"?

[foodcourtdruide]

so your point is "putting faith in people instead of people"?

"Putting faith in corporations over the American people may... "

[foodcourtdruide]

I'd rather have a windmill in my backyard than a tire gauge in my pocket.

Both sides are just being silly on this one...and on everything lately.
They remind me of 2 schoolgirls running for class president.

Why are both sides being silly? I think Obama's tire gauge comment was valid, though the right tried to misrepresent it. He basically said that offshore drilling will have the same cost savings to American's as having properly inflated tires. I've read some articles that say this is a slight exaggeration, but it definitely outlines how the offshore drilling fervor is much ado about nothing.

[Ritalin]

corporations are groups of people.

Yes, they are definitely people. I don't think you will get anyone to argue that point.

so your point is "putting faith in people instead of people"?

"Putting faith in corporations over the American people may... "

I'm going to need someone to help me out with this, but corporations AREN'T people. Corporations are formed to protect the people running them from personal liability, among other things.

Any business school types around to confirm/deny?

[Zorro]

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0808/12334.html

[epo]

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0808/12334.html

I find it interesting how they frame that. Rather than "Obama stalls"...you could take the exact same data and give the headline "Presidential race stabilizes".

This only adds to the thought that this race has nothing to do with McCain, but rather is about whether America will accept Obama.

[TheMojoPin]

I'm going to need someone to help me out with this, but corporations AREN'T people. Corporations are formed to protect the people running them from personal liability, among other things.

Any business school types around to confirm/deny?

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/8SuUzmqBewg&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/8SuUzmqBewg&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/wkygXc9IM5U&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/wkygXc9IM5U&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

A corporation is legally an "artificial person."

[ChrisTheCop]

Why are both sides being silly? I think Obama's tire gauge comment was valid, though the right tried to misrepresent it. He basically said that offshore drilling will have the same cost savings to American's as having properly inflated tires. I've read some articles that say this is a slight exaggeration, but it definitely outlines how the offshore drilling fervor is much ado about nothing.

I mean on the way theyre handling the aftermath.
But again, it's not just this issue; each bit of back and forth just sounds childish.

Just get your real feelings on issues out there and stop with the "oh yeah???"s.

[Knowledged_one]

I mean on the way theyre handling the aftermath.
But again, it's not just this issue; each bit of back and forth just sounds childish.

Just get your real feelings on issues out there and stop with the "oh yeah???"s.

oh yeah

[NewYorkDragons80]

oh yeah
Yeah!

[Zorro]

I find it interesting how they frame that. Rather than "Obama stalls"...you could take the exact same data and give the headline "Presidential race stabilizes".

This only adds to the thought that this race has nothing to do with McCain, but rather is about whether America will accept Obama.

The reason why it's "Obama Stalls" and not stabilizes is that given the state of the Republican Party conventional wisdom was the Democrat should be running away with this...

[TooLowBrow]

obama stalls...
slow and steady wins the race...
he'd better keep sprinting if he wants to win

[JerseySean]

obama stalls...
slow and steady wins the race...
he'd better keep sprinting if he wants to win

I think Obama has hit a ceiling. he has spent 6 million dollars in FL with NO traction. He cant seem to get above 44-47 and when you look at the states he is playing in, that seems weird to me. Something is wrong in the numbers somewhere. I think if McCain can distance himself from Bush, just enough he will run away with this. There is certainly a Doug Wilder issue here.

[Zorro]

I think Obama has hit a ceiling. he has spent 6 million dollars in FL with NO traction. He cant seem to get above 44-47 and when you look at the states he is playing in, that seems weird to me. Something is wrong in the numbers somewhere. I think if McCain can distance himself from Bush, just enough he will run away with this. There is certainly a Doug Wilder issue here.

McCain has not been biting on the Bush thing. The dems have been trying to tag him with it, but for some reason it doesn't seem to be gaining traction. Maybe McCain appears "above the fray" on this issue or it's too early.

[Knowledged_one]

I will tell you now he better start spending some money in Ohio, McCain is spending a good amount of money hammering Obama on his energy plan/drilling/oil prices and his lack of experience, I'm telling you a McCain commercial runs pretty much every 15-20 minutes from 5 in the evening till 11 at night. If Obama ends up losing he is going to regret not spending money early on in Ohio

[TooLowBrow]

McCain has not been biting on the Bush thing. The dems have been trying to tag him with it, but for some reason it doesn't seem to be gaining traction. Maybe McCain appears "above the fray" on this issue or it's too early.

maybe all the terrible things bush has said about mccain is enough to distance them

[NewYorkDragons80]

This only adds to the thought that this race has nothing to do with McCain, but rather is about whether America will accept Obama.
Novak wrote a column a week or two ago about how if the McCain campaign can keep the dialogue about Obama, that's the key to victory. They're questioning Obama's judgement and his qualifications to be president. There's nothing immoral or diabolical or even negative about it. Obama's really in trouble if McCain runs with Sarah Palin.

[NewYorkDragons80]

McCain has not been biting on the Bush thing. The dems have been trying to tag him with it, but for some reason it doesn't seem to be gaining traction. Maybe McCain appears "above the fray" on this issue or it's too early.
Amazingly, they haven't moved away from it in the slightest. You can say the republicans are making it all about Obama, but Obama's making it all about Bush and nobody is buying it who isn't already sold on Obama.

[scottinnj]

A corporation is legally an "artificial person."

That's true. If it pays taxes, it has rights.

[A.J.]

That's true. If it pays taxes, it has rights.

http://www.dcvote.org/images/dclicenseplate.jpg

[scottinnj]

http://www.dcvote.org/images/dclicenseplate.jpg

Yep, that's says it all, right there.

[NewYorkDragons80]

Then I'll just never vote Democrat for prez if they can't get their shit together. It's really not complicated.
You mentioned voting for Nader in 2000 and 2004. He hasn't changed a thing, so why not vote for him again?

[TheMojoPin]

You mentioned voting for Nader in 2000 and 2004. He hasn't changed a thing, so why not vote for him again?

He's too old.

[NewYorkDragons80]

Seriously?

[sailor]

Seriously?

it's why he didn't get behind kucinich

[NewYorkDragons80]

If you're voting for a symbolic protest president, why is age an issue?

[BinaryBimbo]

I think Obama has hit a ceiling. he has spent 6 million dollars in FL with NO traction. He cant seem to get above 44-47 and when you look at the states he is playing in, that seems weird to me. Something is wrong in the numbers somewhere. I think if McCain can distance himself from Bush, just enough he will run away with this. There is certainly a Doug Wilder issue here.

highlighting mine
I don't think so this time; Iowa and the subsequent Primaries put that to rest imho.

I think a bit of it is he is getting too much airtime, and people not that into politics are tiring, coupled with the fact that he is coming off a bit arrogant lately.

There are a lot of people that are freaked over Wright, or Ayers; but I don't see the race thing bringing his momentum down.

I could see the Bradley affect arising if he did lose a lot of support before election day though.

[angrymissy]

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[Columbus]

Former U.S. Rep. Jim Leach of Iowa and former Alaska legislator Jim Whitaker announce their support for the Democratic candidate. (http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-trailleach13-2008aug13,0,515257.story)

[Furtherman]

I was hoping for a better punchline.

[Knowledged_one]

Former U.S. Rep. Jim Leach of Iowa and former Alaska legislator Jim Whitaker announce their support for the Democratic candidate. (http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-trailleach13-2008aug13,0,515257.story)

Wow an Iowan and an Alaskan support him and they are former elected officials Obama cant go wrong

Considering Joe Lieberman is a much bigger name and will most likely support McCain so this seems like a non story

[Zorro]

Wow an Iowan and an Alaskan support him and they are former elected officials Obama cant go wrong

Considering Joe Lieberman is a much bigger name and will most likely support McCain so this seems like a non story

Joe Lieberman scares me.

[TeeBone]

http://www.hoax-slayer.com/images/flip-flop-rash2.jpg
This is what can ultimatley happen when you flip-flop as often as the Chosen One.

[J.Clints]

http://www.hoax-slayer.com/images/flip-flop-rash2.jpg
This is what can ultimatley happen when you flip-flop as often as the Chosen One.

OMG It looks like this just might hurt.

[epo]

This is what can ultimatley happen when you flip-flop as often as the Chosen One.

Wow, thanks for the intellectual depth.

[foodcourtdruide]

Wow an Iowan and an Alaskan support him and they are former elected officials Obama cant go wrong

Considering Joe Lieberman is a much bigger name and will most likely support McCain so this seems like a non story

Joe Lieberman supporting McCain is a non-story. Who would think otherwise?! That's like being surprised that Nancy Pelosi supports Obama.

[foodcourtdruide]

So, according to McCain "In the 21st Century Nations don't invade other Nations". What is he talking about?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/08/13/mccain-in-the-21st-centur_n_118759.html

[HBox]

http://www.hoax-slayer.com/images/flip-flop-rash2.jpg
This is what can ultimatley happen when you flip-flop as often as the Chosen One.

Your talking point is 4 years too late.

[Zorro]

So, according to McCain "In the 21st Century Nations don't invade other Nations". What is he talking about?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/08/13/mccain-in-the-21st-centur_n_118759.html

Linking to Sam Stein and the Huffington Post for an analysis on MCCain is like asking Jerome Corsi for his opinion on Obama. ...meaningless...

[Knowledged_one]

Linking to Sam Stein and the Huffington Post for an analysis on MCCain is like asking Jerome Corsi for his opinion on Obama. ...meaningless...

X2

[angrymissy]

Linking to Sam Stein and the Huffington Post for an analysis on MCCain is like asking Jerome Corsi for his opinion on Obama. ...meaningless...

If you open the link, the video is an interview with McCain on CNN.com, showing McCain speaking those words.

Here is the clip on youtube (8 seconds in is the quote):

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[foodcourtdruide]

Linking to Sam Stein and the Huffington Post for an analysis on MCCain is like asking Jerome Corsi for his opinion on Obama. ...meaningless...

Is this better?

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[foodcourtdruide]

If you open the link, the video is an interview with McCain on CNN.com, showing McCain speaking those words.

Here is the clip on youtube (8 seconds in is the quote):

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Thanks Missy, this is why I didn't think it would matter where the source came from.

[Zorro]

If you open the link, the video is an interview with McCain on CNN.com, showing McCain speaking those words.

Here is the clip on youtube (8 seconds in is the quote):

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I didn't say McCain didn't say those words...I said the analysis was tainted.

[angrymissy]

Well, I think it was brought up to discuss the quote rather than the analysis.

Personally, another cringe moment right there for McCain, IMO.

[Knowledged_one]

Well, I think it was brought up to discuss the quote rather than the analysis.

Personally, another cringe moment right there for McCain, IMO.

Kinda like when Obama called ethnic cleansing a "good thing"

[Zorro]

Well, I think it was brought up to discuss the quote rather than the analysis.

Personally, another cringe moment right there for McCain, IMO.

I've agreed with you in the past on "McCain Moments" I don't think this is one.

[angrymissy]

Kinda like when Obama called ethnic cleansing a "good thing"

Believe me - I am an Obama supporter but have had "cringe" moments with him as well.

He did not say those words exactly... still not a great thing for him to say though, I agree.

Moran asked what Iraq would look like now if Obama's policy of withdrawing in the face of the violence had been implemented.

"That is a hard thing to speculate," Obama said, "The Sunnis might have made the same decisions at that time. The Shii’as might have made some similar decisions based on political calculation. There was ethnic cleansing in Baghdad that actually took the violence level down. And so, as I said before. Nobody has a crystal ball. If we did you just hire the guy with the crystal ball."

(lol the guy interviewing him is named "moran" haha)
http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/n/U/moran.jpg

[Zorro]

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0808/12528.html

Four years ago this month, the release of a critical book by Jerome R. Corsi undercut the cornerstone of Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry's campaign narrative, his military service in Vietnam.

Now, Corsi has reappeared with another popular book, "The Obama Nation: Leftist Politics and the Cult of Personality," attacking yet another Democratic nominee, Barack Obama. And Kerry’s former top advisers, who decided to initially pull their punches in 2004, believe this time Democrats must fight back hard — and fight back now.


Do you fight it or ignore it? I'm thinking there's not a lot of heat there so you get ready, but don't fire first. Or you go nuclear to discredit the guy... no middle of the road response...either none or all

[angrymissy]

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0808/12528.html

Do you fight it or ignore it? I'm thinking there's not a lot of heat there so you get ready, but don't fire first. Or you go nuclear to discredit the guy... no middle of the road response...either none or all

He went all out. 41 page point by point rebuttal, not that anyone will actually read it.

http://thepage.time.com/2008/08/14/this-man-wont-be-swift-boated/

[Zorro]

Michael Godwin...in Daily News

Russia rolls over Georgia, Hillary Clinton does the same to Barack Obama. Now we know who's boss

http://www.nydailynews.com/opinions/2008/08/14/2008-08-14_barack_obama_blinks_in_hillary_faceoff.html

Apparently he listens to Ron..

[TeeBone]

Wow, thanks for the intellectual depth.
Just wait for the ruin he Chosen One will reap upon our country.

[Jujubees2]

Just wait for the ruin he Chosen One will reap upon our country.

You mean it will be worse than the ruin reaped upon the country by G.W. Bush? Hard to believe it can be any worse.

[TeeBone]

Your talking point is 4 years too late.

I expect nothing less form a NorthEastern Liberal. Please understand I am not fond of either candidate but this Obama is just the worst. Get him away from a TelePrompTer and its, "ehhh....ummmm.uhhhhhh." His appeasement of the Clintons railroading his convention is just another in a long line of faults this youngster has to offer us.



SAVE US FROM OURSELVES, CHOSEN ONE!!!!!!
Pah---lease.

Go ahead, Libby---let's hear your nonsensical retort that makes sense to you and people like you.

I'm done with this thread.

[TeeBone]

You mean it will be worse than the ruin reaped upon the country by G.W. Bush? Hard to believe it can be any worse.

That's it---keep blaming Bush. Leave the Democratically run Congress alone. They are wonderful, right?

[Zorro]

That's it---keep blaming Bush. Leave the Democratically run Congress alone. They are wonderful, right?

Cosidering this stuff passes as commentary no wonder our country's in the toilet...

[booster11373]

That's it---keep blaming Bush. Leave the Democratically run Congress alone. They are wonderful, right?


The Democratic majority has only been since 2006

[TeeBone]

The Democratic majority has only been since 2006

Exactly and look what has happened in the last 2 years.

[booster11373]

I expect nothing less form a NorthEastern Liberal. Please understand I am not fond of either candidate but this Obama is just the worst. Get him away from a TelePrompTer and its, "ehhh....ummmm.uhhhhhh." His appeasement of the Clintons railroading his convention is just another in a long line of faults this youngster has to offer us.



SAVE US FROM OURSELVES, CHOSEN ONE!!!!!!
Pah---lease.

Go ahead, Libby---let's hear your nonsensical retort that makes sense to you and people like you.

I'm done with this thread.

I see statements like this and I think that maybe the idea of a United States might be dieing

I love when people pigeonhole there fellow citizens with labels like libby, great stuff

[Zorro]

The Democratic majority has only been since 2006

There's a lot they could have done in the time they've been there. But have been pushed around by a lame duck President instead...

[booster11373]

Exactly and look what has happened in the last 2 years.


The slide down the shite hole been going on since Jan 20 2001

[TeeBone]

This is so much fun.

[Zorro]

The slide down the shite hole been going on since Jan 20 2001

The slide down the shit hole was started long before that... This whole country was founded on the principal of not paying workers a fare wage and then when they finally start getting justice the political class ships all the working class jobs out of the country... Started with Reagan...thorugh Bush and Clitnon then Bush again... Welcome to the would you like fries with that world.

[booster11373]

The slide down the shit hole was started long before that... This whole country was founded on the principal of not paying workers a fare wage and then when they finally start getting justice the political class ships all the working class jobs out of the country... Started with Reagan...through Bush and Clinton then Bush again... Welcome to the would you like fries with that world.


I absolutely 100% agree with that statement

I would also add the overt infusion of religion into politics started under Nixon

[angrymissy]

That's it---keep blaming Bush. Leave the Democratically run Congress alone. They are wonderful, right?

I thought you were done w/ this thread?

[Zorro]

I thought you were done w/ this thread?

:clap:

[epo]

Just wait for the ruin he Chosen One will reap upon our country.

What the hell does that even mean? Obviously you've listening to too much Hannity as he beta-tests slurs for the right wing.

Plus the "Chosen One" nickname is already taken...slap nuts!

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c145/HHHBABE69/SexyJeff224.jpg

[epo]

Michael Godwin...in Daily News

http://www.nydailynews.com/opinions/2008/08/14/2008-08-14_barack_obama_blinks_in_hillary_faceoff.html

Apparently he listens to Ron..

Godwin is full of shit. The roll-call vote will be strictly ceremonial in nature and Hilliary has agreed to release her delegates to Obama. The whole thing is about healing the party, not about the Clinton's being in control of anything.

[epo]

I expect nothing less form a NorthEastern Liberal. Please understand I am not fond of either candidate but this Obama is just the worst. Get him away from a TelePrompTer and its, "ehhh....ummmm.uhhhhhh." His appeasement of the Clintons railroading his convention is just another in a long line of faults this youngster has to offer us.

SAVE US FROM OURSELVES, CHOSEN ONE!!!!!!
Pah---lease.

Go ahead, Libby---let's hear your nonsensical retort that makes sense to you and people like you.

I'm done with this thread.

Well TeeBone....since you know everything, please tell us how "this Obama is just the worst". I am dying to hear your analysis outside of perceived footwear, funny nicknames or rhetorical skills.

I'm dying to hear this.....:bye:

[HBox]

I expect nothing less form a NorthEastern Liberal. Please understand I am not fond of either candidate but this Obama is just the worst. Get him away from a TelePrompTer and its, "ehhh....ummmm.uhhhhhh." His appeasement of the Clintons railroading his convention is just another in a long line of faults this youngster has to offer us.



SAVE US FROM OURSELVES, CHOSEN ONE!!!!!!
Pah---lease.

Go ahead, Libby---let's hear your nonsensical retort that makes sense to you and people like you.

I'm done with this thread.

I'm laughing at you. I want you to know that. I want you to picture me, reading a computer screen with your post on it, and then laughing, not able to stop for a few seconds, rolling around in my chair. Then I'm finally able to stop laughing, through a massive exertion of self control. I wipe the tears from eyes, catch my breath, compose myself. Then picture me reading your post again. I hit the part where you call me "libby." I start laughing so hard I fall to the floor. I'm laughing so hard I am pounding my fist on the floor. It goes on like this for minutes. I manage to compose myself again. I manage to read the rest of your post. Picture me desperately trying not to crack up again. As hard as I try I still can't hold in a few hearty chuckles. Then picture me hitting the reply button as I attempt to relay the sheer joy you've brought me. I'm still laughing as I type this very line.

[Zorro]

Godwin is full of shit. The roll-call vote will be strictly ceremonial in nature and Hilliary has agreed to release her delegates to Obama. The whole thing is about healing the party, not about the Clinton's being in control of anything.

Seriously...you gotta know there's no way Obama did this voluntarily. Just google 1992 and see how vociferously Bill fought to keep Jerry Brown from being nominated...never forgave him...

[epo]

Seriously...you gotta know there's no way Obama did this voluntarily. Just google 1992 and see how vociferously Bill fought to keep Jerry Brown from being nominated...never forgave him...

Oh, I understand the irony of 1992...as it was the first thing I thought of. But also, Obama has the deck here, the Clinton's don't. He is making nice and yet keeping her away from him.

Obama is honestly in a no win situation here. If he stiffs the Clinton brothers he alienates 40% of the party, if he lets her speak he gets framed as a "pussy" by the right-wing talk machine.

[Zorro]

Oh, I understand the irony of 1992...as it was the first thing I thought of. But also, Obama has the deck here, the Clinton's don't. He is making nice and yet keeping her away from him.

Obama is honestly in a no win situation here. If he stiffs the Clinton brothers he alienates 40% of the party, if he lets her speak he gets framed as a "pussy" by the right-wing talk machine.

Which is sort of the point... The Clinton's have Obama by the short hairs and his response to it has been less than stellar. If he can't corral them, how's he gonna do as President?

[scottinnj]

I'm disappointed in the tone these threads have taken. No matter who wins, he loses. We haven't even gotten to the conventions yet and look at how we are sniping at each other.

Libby.

Neo-Con.


Whoever is elected is going to catch hell. Meanwhile the Russians are laughing at us while Georgians suffer. The Iranians defy us while the world looks for leadership from us. The Olympic "spectacle" is a communist farce-yet we're spoonfed its propaganda on network tv while we ignore real problems in the world.

We need to stop acting like 5th graders, unite and discuss our differences like grownups.

But noooo, these threads have boiled down to:

McCain is a racist warmongering old white guy bent on destroying the middle class for big oil.

Obama is a pussy inexperienced muslim bent on destroying the corporate infrastructure of America.

The shame of it is that we're all being led around by a media that in its whole, has chosen sides. Half of the media wants Obama, half wants McCain and both sides are playing into your fears of "the other guy" to get their message out.

Get around the media, go straight to the sources-the campaigns themselves, hear what they say about the issues and make up your own mind about what they say without the message being filtered through some "political analyst" who has his/her own agenda they want you to consider.

[keithy_19]

McCain is a racist warmongering old white guy bent on destroying the middle class for big oil.

Obama is a pussy inexperienced muslim bent on destroying the corporate infrastructure of America.



Well, a spade is a spade...


http://wbztv.com/politics/jonkeller/john.kerry.vice.2.796143.html

Kerry as Obama's VP?

[TooLowBrow]

Well, a spade is a spade...


http://wbztv.com/politics/jonkeller/john.kerry.vice.2.796143.html

Kerry as Obama's VP?

A Frankenstein, a woman, a black guy, and mccain are all running for president. who wins?

[A.J.]

There's a lot they could have done in the time they've been there. But have been pushed around by a lame duck President instead...

It's pretty impressive that a lame duck President has that much juice. Pelosi and Reid are THAT weak and ineffective?

[Furtherman]

A Frankenstein, a woman, a black guy, and mccain are all running for president. who wins?

Black guy.

He'll outrun the angry mob with pitchforks and torches.

http://library.creativecow.net/articles/wilson_tim/win-mac2/the-angry-mob.png

[TooLowBrow]

Barack Obama (D)

Abortion: "How do we provide resources to let a woman make a decison to keep a child?"
maybe abortion is good because it allows the unready to avoid the responsibility of having to raise a life in this world. is it better for a 14 year old girl to have an abortion or to receive a welfare check twice a month? just let it be peoples own decision, for thier own reasons.

He also touched on same-sex marriage. When asked to define marriage, he told Warren, "It's a union between a man and a woman."
how liberal. im sure that at one point in time southern priests or judges wouldn't have married black couples, for the reason of 'marriage is between a white man and a white woman'. just let the gays marry. anytime people are trying to become closer together, in love, its a good thing.
this guy is starting to annoy me

[angrymissy]

maybe abortion is good because it allows the unready to avoid the responsibility of having to raise a life in this world. is it better for a 14 year old girl to have an abortion or to receive a welfare check twice a month? just let it be peoples own decision, for thier own reasons.

how liberal. im sure that at one point in time southern priests or judges wouldn't have married black couples, for the reason of 'marriage is between a white man and a white woman'. just let the gays marry. anytime people are trying to become closer together, in love, its a good thing.
this guy is starting to annoy me

Obama supports abortion up to viability and civil unions for same sex couples. Where did you grab those quotes and what is the full context?

[epo]

Obama supports abortion up to viability and civil unions for same sex couples. Where did you grab those quotes and what is the full context?

Those quotes are from last night's Rick Warren presidential forum. Here is a link to the CNN (http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/08/16/warren.forum/index.html) story and here are the full context bites:

Abortion:

Obama said that although he's pro-choice and supports Roe v. Wade, his goal is to reduce the number of abortions in America.

"On this particular issue, if you believe that life begins at conception ... and you are consistent, then I can't argue with you on that," he said. "What I can do is say, are there ways we can work together to reduce the number of unwanted pregnancies?"

Gay Marriage:

He also touched on same-sex marriage. When asked to define marriage, he told Warren, "It's a union between a man and a woman."

"For me as a Christian, it is a sacred union. God's in the mix," he said.

Obama added that he does support same-sex civil unions, saying, "I can afford those civil rights to others even if I don't have ... that view."

[angrymissy]

So, yeah, if you read the whole context, then it makes sense.

No Presidential candidate is EVER going to say "I'm pro-choice, and want to try and find ways to increase abortions!"

[KnoxHarrington]

So, yeah, if you read the whole context, then it makes sense.

No Presidential candidate is EVER going to say "I'm pro-choice, and want to try and find ways to increase abortions!"

http://www.rob-clarkson.com/duff-brewery/kangandkodos/03.jpg

"Abortions for all!"

(boos)

"Very well, no abortions for anyone!"

(more boos)

"Abortions for some, minature American flags for all!"

(cheers)

[TooLowBrow]

He also touched on same-sex marriage. When asked to define marriage, he told Warren, "It's a union between a man and a woman."

"For me as a Christian, it is a sacred union. God's in the mix," he said.

Obama added that he does support same-sex civil unions, saying, "I can afford those civil rights to others even if I don't have ... that view."

can anyone resist mixing church and state?

so, the invisible man in the sky only want men and women marrying.
he also wants money, so donate to your local church

[A.J.]

No Presidential candidate is EVER going to say "I'm pro-choice, and want to try and find ways to increase abortions!"

That would be so sweet.

[epo]

So, yeah, if you read the whole context, then it makes sense.

No Presidential candidate is EVER going to say "I'm pro-choice, and want to try and find ways to increase abortions!"

I wanted him to just go for it last night:

"Do you people realize the Republican Party has used you for the last 30 years? They've realistically run everything and they still haven't given you what you want! Prayer in school, Abortion, mandatory funding of private schools.....none of it!

Face it suckers, you got served!"

[sailor]

maybe abortion is good because it allows the unready to avoid the responsibility of having to raise a life in this world. is it better for a 14 year old girl to have an abortion or to receive a welfare check twice a month? just let it be peoples own decision, for thier own reasons.


how liberal. im sure that at one point in time southern priests or judges wouldn't have married black couples, for the reason of 'marriage is between a white man and a white woman'. just let the gays marry. anytime people are trying to become closer together, in love, its a good thing.
this guy is starting to annoy me

the "let it be peoples own decision" doesn't fly, because the pro-life side see it as murder. the pro-abortion side always make it seem like they're being petty...but to them it's murder.

[TooLowBrow]

the "let it be peoples own decision" doesn't fly, because the pro-life side see it as murder. the pro-abortion side always make it seem like they're being petty...but to them it's murder.

no its not, the same as killing animals for any reason isnt murder, the same as killing people during war isnt murder. people say a lot of things, but in the end they let these things continue, proving that they dont really care at all.

[sailor]

no its not, the same as killing animals for any reason isnt murder, the same as killing people during war isnt murder. people say a lot of things, but in the end they let these things continue, proving that they dont really care at all.

don't you feel the least bit silly telling others what they really believe? you should.

i know dark hippie (for one example) believes war and the death penalty are murder. i disagree, but i'd never dream of telling him he doesn't actually believe it.

[TooLowBrow]

don't you feel the least bit silly telling others what they really believe? you should.

i know dark hippie (for one example) believes war and the death penalty are murder. i disagree, but i'd never dream of telling him he doesn't actually believe it.

i dont see anyone acting on that belief. people are willing to die for so many causes. in the past they have, but recently you dont see anyone, who is a pro-peace person, willing to die to stand up for the lives of others

[sailor]

i dont see anyone acting on that belief. people are willing to die for so many causes. in the past they have, but recently you dont see anyone, who is a pro-peace person, willing to die to stand up for the lives of others

i believe in many things i don't want to die for. i just like being alive.

[BinaryBimbo]

I wanted him to just go for it last night:

"Do you people realize the Republican Party has used you for the last 30 years? They've realistically run everything and they still haven't given you what you want! Prayer in school, Abortion, mandatory funding of private schools.....none of it!

Face it suckers, you got served!"


Yeah the whole idea that Republicans are thier friends in government is a myth.
That's kinda good though - we don't need Shirley Phelps Roper influencing policy.

[Zorro]

I wanted him to just go for it last night:

"Do you people realize the Republican Party has used you for the last 30 years? They've realistically run everything and they still haven't given you what you want! Prayer in school, Abortion, mandatory funding of private schools.....none of it!

Face it suckers, you got served!"

If failure to act were a standard there'd be 535 empty seats in Congress...

[epo]

The hottest rumor in the business (http://thepage.time.com/fineman-thinks-its-biden/)right now has Obama's VP pick not only made...but a very familiar face:

http://www.funstuffonly.com/brhs/pres_cand/images/sen-joe-biden.jpg

This would certainly do two things: It definitely could help Obama with the foreign affairs question and it could lock up the vital Diablo Sammich vote.

[DiabloSammich]

Trust me, America. You won't be disappointed.


If for nothing else the entertainment factor.

[epo]

Trust me, America. You won't be disappointed.


If for nothing else the entertainment factor.

Don't forget that million dollar smile.

Imagine the joy in his heart thinking about the photo-ops a vice presidency could create for him.

[Knowledged_one]

The hottest rumor in the business (http://thepage.time.com/fineman-thinks-its-biden/)right now has Obama's VP pick not only made...but a very familiar face:

http://www.funstuffonly.com/brhs/pres_cand/images/sen-joe-biden.jpg

This would certainly do two things: It definitely could help Obama with the foreign affairs question and it could lock up the vital Diablo Sammich vote.

well he for sure will get teh Beverly Hills Cop and Robocop fans vote

He was great as Lieutenant Bogomill and the evil guy in Robocop

[Knowledged_one]

Yeah the whole idea that Republicans are thier friends in government is a myth.
That's kinda good though - we don't need Shirley Phelps Roper influencing policy.

are you serious you take the most extreme case of one church that believes that 9/11 was a good thing and associate it with Republicans are you really that stupid

Or the fact that it was President Bush who signed into effect Respect for America's Fallen Heroes Act in 2006

Are you seriously that retarded, i dont agree with Epo or Missy but at least they have intelligence in these things. You just spew out things and make them as facts and then wonder why people hate democrats

Seriously get a clue

[BinaryBimbo]

are you serious you take the most extreme case of one church that believes that 9/11 was a good thing and associate it with Republicans are you really that stupid

Or the fact that it was President Bush who signed into effect Respect for America's Fallen Heroes Act in 2006

Are you seriously that retarded, i dont agree with Epo or Missy but at least they have intelligence in these things. You just spew out things and make them as facts and then wonder why people hate democrats

Seriously get a clue

Ever heard of sarcasim?

My point was that EPO is correct - The Republicans have not delivered any of the main items the so-called religious Right has been supporting them for; Bush in fact turned his back on them once he became President.

As for your other drunken rants: my Father was KIA and I damn sure don't think what Shirley Phelps Roper does is acceptable; but she probably has the Right to be an asshole.

[K.C.]

The hottest rumor in the business (http://thepage.time.com/fineman-thinks-its-biden/)right now has Obama's VP pick not only made...but a very familiar face:

http://www.funstuffonly.com/brhs/pres_cand/images/sen-joe-biden.jpg

This would certainly do two things: It definitely could help Obama with the foreign affairs question and it could lock up the vital Diablo Sammich vote.



It'll lock up a vote from K.C., too.

Showboatin' Joe is about as close to perfect a pick as Obama can make. He doesn't exactly help him geographically, but he helps him tremendously demographically.

Biden is a grizzled, old, curmudgeon who likes to yell and curse...he'll play well the the older white male demo, which Obama is still struggling with a little.

Plus, Biden is soundbyte gold...if their opponents end up McCain/Romney...wow...he'll savage them.


The only drawback is is that Biden might get so worked up, he may cut an Iron Sheik-like "I'll fuck McCain in the ass" promo, and create some new problems for Obama.

[SP1!]

I wanted him to just go for it last night:

"Do you people realize the Republican Party has used you for the last 30 years? They've realistically run everything and they still haven't given you what you want! Prayer in school, Abortion, mandatory funding of private schools.....none of it!

Face it suckers, you got served!"
Prayer in School has only been an issue for a few years and I dont see the big deal about it from either side, let the local municipality set their standards, if you dont like it then you are probably living in the wrong place.

And you could say the same things to the dems, they havent made any radical changes and for all their rhetoric a few years ago we are still in Iraq, they havent stopped most of what bush has set out to do for the wiretaps, and they havent investigated gitmo.

Oh and the wiretap bill every one was so against was passed with dem support and even obamas vote for it, he wont change anything if elected and will vote the party line.

I like how he said that the democratic party or his campaign wont take money from lobbyist groups then announce they would sell luxury boxes to unions and others who made a nice donation.

Both sides are fucking hypocrites and neither side is on the peoples side.

[scottinnj]

It'll lock up a vote from K.C., too.




Probably me as well.

I think on domestic issues Biden is a stupid dick, but his foreign policy skills-for a democrat, we haven't had this in the White House since JFK. Biden will make me very comfortable voting for Obama if he is the VP.

Unless I'm between Biden and a video camera when I go to vote. Then I'll be scared.

[epo]

Prayer in School has only been an issue for a few years and I dont see the big deal about it from either side, let the local municipality set their standards, if you dont like it then you are probably living in the wrong place.

Yes, it's nice that you could ignore my greater point that the Republican Party has been fucking the "Religious Right" in the ass without lube very hard without any results since 1980.

Furthermore, Prayer in School is not a local issue. Its a national issue. If one person is put in the minority on that rule, then its one too many.

And you could say the same things to the dems, they havent made any radical changes and for all their rhetoric a few years ago we are still in Iraq, they havent stopped most of what bush has set out to do for the wiretaps, and they havent investigated gitmo.

Oh and the wiretap bill every one was so against was passed with dem support and even obamas vote for it, he wont change anything if elected and will vote the party line.

I agree that I'm not thrilled with the democratic leadership in these areas of Congress in the past two years, but honestly comparing two years with the histories of shit built up is fucking hilarious. Honestly I really enjoy people who thought that changing 1/3 of the branches of government would completely change the way the government operates.

I like how he said that the democratic party or his campaign wont take money from lobbyist groups then announce they would sell luxury boxes to unions and others who made a nice donation.

I assume by "he" you mean Senator Barack Obama. Of course the fact that the very moment that he assumed control of the Democratic Party that he banned money from PAC's and lobbyists (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/06/10/politics/politico/main4167551.shtml)that didn't mean anything. And please give me proof of a group that broke the established rules of the DNC or the Obama for America campaign that has a box in Denver. Because I guarantee you can't.

Both sides are fucking hypocrites and neither side is on the peoples side.

I will agree about that. Its a matter of degree and if you think the that McCain is your more of "your friend" than Bush, then you are greatly mistaken.

[K.C.]

Probably me as well.

I think on domestic issues Biden is a stupid dick, but his foreign policy skills-for a democrat, we haven't had this in the White House since JFK. Biden will make me very comfortable voting for Obama if he is the VP.

Unless I'm between Biden and a video camera when I go to vote. Then I'll be scared.


On domestic issues, he pretty much does what the party tells him. It's not his thing.

He's got as good of foreign relations credentials as it gets, though, and he's got a little more flash than an Evan Bayh or a Jim Webb, that would probably make him a better national campaigner.

[TheMojoPin]

*BEEEEP-BEEEEEEEEEEEEP!!!*

LOOK OUT! Here comes ye olde Democratic faildozer once more!

This is shaping up to be like 2004 all over again...another election seemingly in the bag and handed to them on a silver platter that they go out of their way to fuck up and lose.

Democrats...incompetent or afraid of success?

[epo]

*BEEEEP-BEEEEEEEEEEEEP!!!*

LOOK OUT! Here comes ye olde Democratic faildozer once more!

This is shaping up to be like 2004 all over again...another election seemingly in the bag and handed to them on a silver platter that they go out of their way to fuck up and lose.

Democrats...incompetent or afraid of success?

Damn it Mojo, dont' buckle on me now!

The unspoken advantage of this election is the Obama ground game. Essentially the two campaigns are even in TV ads, but the Obama campaign is 3 to 1 in ground game (http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/08/obama-leads-better-than-31-in-field.html).

And let me tell you, having seen that ground game at the local level they are pretty damned impressive. We've all yet to see the full force of that strategy...but they'll be in neighborhoods soon, if they aren't already.

Honestly, if you think this is John Kerry's campaign strategy...you are greatly mistaken.

[TheMojoPin]

Honestly, if you think this is John Kerry's campaign strategy...you are greatly mistaken.

You're right, they're finding new ways to blow it.

Obama is circling the drain barely beating out McCain with his pandering to the Right and Biden is just going to unleash the final prolonged flush.

"Whoa. What a shitty circus."

[epo]

You're right, they're finding new ways to blow it.

Obama is circling the drain barely beating out McCain with his pandering to the Right and Biden is just going to unleash the final prolonged flush.

"Whoa. What a shitty circus."

So I'll ask you this: Who should he take as VP in the "perfect" world?

[sailor]

So I'll ask you this: Who should he take as VP in the "perfect" world?

dusty?

[TeeBone]

"Uhhhh, ehhhhhh, ummmmmmmmmmm.....Political Sanctions...........ehhhhhhh, George Bush, ehhhhh, ummmmmmm, political sanctions."

His pronunciation of any word with the letter 'S' at the end sounds odd. Ever heard Paul Harvey http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:YP9nPSZkvvueXM:http://www.webwiseforradio.com/site_files/270/Image/PaulHarvey.jpgspeak or that creepy old pedophilehttp://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:gKn6MRnhQOgikM:http://www.brothatsmint.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/03/familyguybestofherbert.jpg from the, Family Guy?
That's what Obama sounds like to me when puppet masters plunk him down in front of a microphone.
I know I shouldn't focus on that with Obama, but its so fun and it pisses off the right people when things like this get brought up. And that coupled with the fact that I've had to listen to people make fun of W's pronunciation of the word, 'nuclear' for the last few years makes this all the more interesting.
I can't wait until this thread turns to matters more substantive -------oh wait, we're talking abut Obama, I forgot.
Perhaps tomorrow, we can talk about his earshttp://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:_kyIRAgfhIT7kM:http://www.riehlworldview.com/photos/uncategorized/obama_for_prez.jpg or mulatto bloodlinehttp://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:RaHnIsa8EhZ3KM:http://jnocook.net/students/barry.mayo/mayo-18.jpg. Or, we can talk policy. Does anyone know what Obama stands for? Its Wednesday today and it might be different than yesterday so think hard about your answer.http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:_2_I6pFOB9igEM:http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff302/slypuck2/ObamaChange.jpg

Save us, Obama
Save us from ourselves


Go ahead liberal thinking minds----fire away.

[DolaMight]

Kinda odd to think of the contrast of thier lives if it's true

Barack Obama's 'lost' brother found in Kenya

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/uselection2008/barackobama/2590614/Barack-Obamas-lost-brother-found-in-Kenya.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/uselection2008/barackobama/2590614/Barack-Obamas-lost-brother-found-in-Kenya.html)
Senator Barack Obama's long lost brother has been tracked down for the first time living in a shanty town in Kenya, reports claimed.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/00793/220-obama-brother_793467f.jpg

[epo]

"Uhhhh, ehhhhhh, ummmmmmmmmmm.....Political Sanctions...........ehhhhhhh, George Bush, ehhhhh, ummmmmmm, political sanctions."

His pronunciation of any word with the letter 'S' at the end sounds odd. Ever heard Paul Harvey http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:YP9nPSZkvvueXM:http://www.webwiseforradio.com/site_files/270/Image/PaulHarvey.jpgspeak or that creepy old pedophilehttp://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:gKn6MRnhQOgikM:http://www.brothatsmint.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/03/familyguybestofherbert.jpg from the, Family Guy?
That's what Obama sounds like to me when puppet masters plunk him down in front of a microphone.
I know I shouldn't focus on that with Obama, but its so fun and it pisses off the right people when things like this get brought up. And that coupled with the fact that I've had to listen to people make fun of W's pronunciation of the word, 'nuclear' for the last few years makes this all the more interesting.
I can't wait until this thread turns to matters more substantive -------oh wait, we're talking abut Obama, I forgot.
Perhaps tomorrow, we can talk about his earshttp://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:_kyIRAgfhIT7kM:http://www.riehlworldview.com/photos/uncategorized/obama_for_prez.jpg or mulatto bloodlinehttp://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:RaHnIsa8EhZ3KM:http://jnocook.net/students/barry.mayo/mayo-18.jpg. Or, we can talk policy. Does anyone know what Obama stands for? Its Wednesday today and it might be different than yesterday so think hard about your answer.http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:_2_I6pFOB9igEM:http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff302/slypuck2/ObamaChange.jpg

Save us, Obama
Save us from ourselves

Go ahead liberal thinking minds----fire away.

I would certainly fire away...if you had a POINT. :wallbash:

[angrymissy]

I would certainly fire away...if you had a POINT. :wallbash:

Obama has big ears and a mulatto bloodline (The last person I heard use the word "mullato" was Grandpa).

[epo]

Obama has big ears and a mulatto bloodline (The last person I heard use the word "mullato" was Grandpa).

And they obviously still use it along the I4 Corridor.

[epo]

Kinda odd to think of the contrast of thier lives if it's true

Barack Obama's 'lost' brother found in Kenya

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/uselection2008/barackobama/2590614/Barack-Obamas-lost-brother-found-in-Kenya.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/uselection2008/barackobama/2590614/Barack-Obamas-lost-brother-found-in-Kenya.html)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/00793/220-obama-brother_793467f.jpg

This is one of those stories that underscores how each & everyone of us in America is lucky to be in this nation.

[DolaMight]

Kinda odd to think of the contrast of thier lives if it's true

Barack Obama's 'lost' brother found in Kenya

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/uselection2008/barackobama/2590614/Barack-Obamas-lost-brother-found-in-Kenya.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/uselection2008/barackobama/2590614/Barack-Obamas-lost-brother-found-in-Kenya.html)


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/00793/220-obama-brother_793467f.jpg

I knew he looked familiar. I just remembered were I saw Obama's bro.
http://www.proof7.com/p7nyc/imaes/TyroneBigguns-thumb.jpg

[Knowledged_one]

Ever heard of sarcasim?

My point was that EPO is correct - The Republicans have not delivered any of the main items the so-called religious Right has been supporting them for; Bush in fact turned his back on them once he became President.

As for your other drunken rants: my Father was KIA and I damn sure don't think what Shirley Phelps Roper does is acceptable; but she probably has the Right to be an asshole.

Yeah because sarcasm comes across so well in writing like this

see what i did there that was sarcasm

[Knowledged_one]

So I'll ask you this: Who should he take as VP in the "perfect" world?

Curt Henning?

[A.J.]

Kinda odd to think of the contrast of thier lives if it's true

Barack Obama's 'lost' brother found in Kenya

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/uselection2008/barackobama/2590614/Barack-Obamas-lost-brother-found-in-Kenya.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/uselection2008/barackobama/2590614/Barack-Obamas-lost-brother-found-in-Kenya.html)


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/00793/220-obama-brother_793467f.jpg

Embarrassed by his penury, he said that he does not does not mention his famous half-brother in conversation.

"If anyone says something about my surname, I say we are not related. I am ashamed," he said.

That's too bad. I was hoping for a new "wacky Presidential brother" like Billy Carter or Roger Clinton.

[Knowledged_one]

Has anyone seen this?

McCain leads Obama among likely U.S. voters by 46 percent to 41 percent, wiping out Obama's solid 7-point advantage in July and taking his first lead in the monthly Reuters/Zogby poll.

The reversal follows a month of attacks by McCain, who has questioned Obama's experience, criticized his opposition to most new offshore oil drilling and mocked his overseas trip.

The poll was taken Thursday through Saturday as Obama wrapped up a weeklong vacation in Hawaii that ceded the political spotlight to McCain, who seized on Russia's invasion of Georgia to emphasize his foreign policy views.

"There is no doubt the campaign to discredit Obama is paying off for McCain right now," pollster John Zogby said. "This is a significant ebb for Obama."

McCain now has a 9-point edge, 49 percent to 40 percent, over Obama on the critical question of who would be the best manager of the economy -- an issue nearly half of voters said was their top concern in the November 4 presidential election.

That margin reversed Obama's 4-point edge last month on the economy over McCain, an Arizona senator and former Vietnam prisoner of war who has admitted a lack of economic expertise and shows far greater interest in foreign and military policy.

[epo]

Has anyone seen this?

McCain leads Obama among likely U.S. voters by 46 percent to 41 percent, wiping out Obama's solid 7-point advantage in July and taking his first lead in the monthly Reuters/Zogby poll.

The reversal follows a month of attacks by McCain, who has questioned Obama's experience, criticized his opposition to most new offshore oil drilling and mocked his overseas trip.

The poll was taken Thursday through Saturday as Obama wrapped up a weeklong vacation in Hawaii that ceded the political spotlight to McCain, who seized on Russia's invasion of Georgia to emphasize his foreign policy views.

"There is no doubt the campaign to discredit Obama is paying off for McCain right now," pollster John Zogby said. "This is a significant ebb for Obama."

McCain now has a 9-point edge, 49 percent to 40 percent, over Obama on the critical question of who would be the best manager of the economy -- an issue nearly half of voters said was their top concern in the November 4 presidential election.

That margin reversed Obama's 4-point edge last month on the economy over McCain, an Arizona senator and former Vietnam prisoner of war who has admitted a lack of economic expertise and shows far greater interest in foreign and military policy.

I've seen it. Link here to news blurb. (http://www.agi.it/world/news/200808201505-pol-ren0062-art.html)

This is the interesting quote:

The poll was conducted at the end of July.

Zogby is just the worst.

[angrymissy]

Has anyone seen this?

McCain leads Obama among likely U.S. voters by 46 percent to 41 percent, wiping out Obama's solid 7-point advantage in July and taking his first lead in the monthly Reuters/Zogby poll.

The reversal follows a month of attacks by McCain, who has questioned Obama's experience, criticized his opposition to most new offshore oil drilling and mocked his overseas trip.

The poll was taken Thursday through Saturday as Obama wrapped up a weeklong vacation in Hawaii that ceded the political spotlight to McCain, who seized on Russia's invasion of Georgia to emphasize his foreign policy views.

"There is no doubt the campaign to discredit Obama is paying off for McCain right now," pollster John Zogby said. "This is a significant ebb for Obama."

McCain now has a 9-point edge, 49 percent to 40 percent, over Obama on the critical question of who would be the best manager of the economy -- an issue nearly half of voters said was their top concern in the November 4 presidential election.

That margin reversed Obama's 4-point edge last month on the economy over McCain, an Arizona senator and former Vietnam prisoner of war who has admitted a lack of economic expertise and shows far greater interest in foreign and military policy.

Quinnepiac has Obama up 5 still, some have Obama up, some have him down.

Good site that shows all most recent poll data:
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/us/general_election_mccain_vs_obama-225.html

I really don't think polls even count until after the conventions and debates.

[Knowledged_one]

Oh i agree I'm not putting that much stake into it just thought it was interesting it seems odd to me that there would be a 12 point swing in such a short time

And I am telling you that Obama is really going to regret not spending money in Ohio, McCain is pounding him relenlessly on things here. If Ohio ends up going for McCain and Obama loses that will be his biggest blunder.

And if Obama was vacationing in Hawaii for a week i think that may be a big mistake as well with so much going for him to allow McCain to have the spotlight all of this time with everything going on in Georgia

[foodcourtdruide]

Quinnepiac has Obama up 5 still, some have Obama up, some have him down.

Good site that shows all most recent poll data:
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/us/general_election_mccain_vs_obama-225.html

I really don't think polls even count until after the conventions and debates.

Pre-Election plling counts! Ask President Kerry.

[TheMojoPin]

For the love of God, why is anyone bothering with polling info from anywhere except for FiveThirtyEight.com (http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/)?

McCain has definitely closed the gap and they're practically running neck and neck, but any poll showing some kind of sudden 12-point swich for either candidate is just a joke.

And epo, I think Richardson always was the best choice for VP.

[TeeBone]

I would certainly fire away...if you had a POINT. :wallbash:

Oh Epo, I've tried before to explain satire.
Ahh fahget it......

[TheMojoPin]

Oh Epo, I've tried before to explain satire.
Ahh fahget it......

What were you satirizing?

[K.C.]

No poll matters until after the first debate.

wake me up when September ends.
^
|
|
|
|
|

...see what I did there?

[Knowledged_one]

No poll matters until after the first debate.

wake me up when September ends.
^
|
|
|
|
|

...see what I did there?

Well just reading that makes me want to take a walk along the boulevard of broken dreams

[BinaryBimbo]

Oh i agree I'm not putting that much stake into it just thought it was interesting it seems odd to me that there would be a 12 point swing in such a short time

And I am telling you that Obama is really going to regret not spending money in Ohio, McCain is pounding him relenlessly on things here. If Ohio ends up going for McCain and Obama loses that will be his biggest blunder.

And if Obama was vacationing in Hawaii for a week i think that may be a big mistake as well with so much going for him to allow McCain to have the spotlight all of this time with everything going on in Georgia


Obama does sound a bit tired to me lately; so maybe that vacation was necessary.

imho :smile: the two of them are virtually tied right now; so it really comes down to the boost the conventions give them to get a better feel for where this is ultimately headed. A week after the RNC and a 5 point lead would be huge.

[K.C.]

I will say one thing, though...

Looking at the Electoral-Vote.com map today, the whole 'Obama vs. McCain will change the entire red/blue dynamic' sentiment is turning out to be complete bullshit.

The old school battle lines are pretty much already drawn once again, with Virginia MAYBE being the one exception.

Before long we'll be talking about Florida and Ohio every fucking day.

[scottinnj]

So I'll ask you this: Who should he take as VP in the "perfect" world?

Christian Bale and his utility belt. He's Dreamy!!

[scottinnj]

Obama does sound a bit tired to me lately; so maybe that vacation was necessary.

imho :smile: the two of them are virtually tied right now; so it really comes down to the boost the conventions give them to get a better feel for where this is ultimately headed. A week after the RNC and a 5 point lead would be huge.

Right now it's not that big a deal-the polls seem to be going McCain's way, but next week Obama will get a big bump coming out of the convention-as long as the Clinton Brothers don't start shouting "Viva la revolucion!" during the keynote speech. He'll be up for a while, then McCain will come back after his convention, as long as he doesn't do a Bob Dole imitation. Then the polls will even up, and the debates will be what decides who is going to the White House next January.

[TooLowBrow]

NOFX are headlining the opening of the Democratic National Convention at Red Rocks in Denver, Colorado this Friday, August 22nd.
To celebrate Barack “Punk Rock” Obama’s nomination, NOFX will perform Punk in Drublic in its entirety and in order.

Side Note: Fat Mike is pretty sure he is on Barack’s VP shortlist.
Keep yer fingers crossed everybody!

[epo]

Or maybe not. But apparently Toby Keith thinks Senator Obama is an ok guy (http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jRR9_pyEtgHI26tHSsFK_upDc6UAD92LJ6EG0).

I'm not sure why this hit the AP wire, or why I read it.

[HBox]

Or maybe not. But apparently Toby Keith thinks Senator Obama is an ok guy (http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jRR9_pyEtgHI26tHSsFK_upDc6UAD92LJ6EG0).

I'm not sure why this hit the AP wire, or why I read it.

AP is getting more and more into these kinds of articles, and ones with more opinion inserted in. And they are doing an atrocious job of it.

[scottinnj]

Or maybe not. But apparently Toby Keith thinks Senator Obama is an ok guy (http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jRR9_pyEtgHI26tHSsFK_upDc6UAD92LJ6EG0).

I'm not sure why this hit the AP wire, or why I read it.

He's turning out to be another Billy Ray Cyrus. Cheesy Country Music, Ford promos, and "endorsing" Democrats.

For his sake I hope he has a daughter that can sing like Miley Cyrus, or else his career is over.

[K.C.]

Well, today could be the day.

Biden?
Kaine?
Bayh?

Or does he just realize he needs that deal with the devil to win and go Hillary?

[TheGameHHH]

Well, today could be the day.

Biden?
Kaine?
Bayh?

Or does he just realize he needs that deal with the devil to win and go Hillary?

Drudge is running a story right now that makes it appear to be Bayh based on some political printing company that is printing Obama/Bayh pamphlets and the like.

[KnoxHarrington]

Well, today could be the day.

Biden?
Kaine?
Bayh?

Or does he just realize he needs that deal with the devil to win and go Hillary?

Clinton's campaign has already said that Obama's campaign did not ask for financial documents or other investigative tools they asked other possible VP picks for.

Now, it's possible that they figure that there's not much need for that since Clinton subjected herself to the nomination process, but I doubt that.

[epo]

Clinton's campaign has already said that Obama's campaign did not ask for financial documents or other investigative tools they asked other possible VP picks for.

Now, it's possible that they figure that there's not much need for that since Clinton subjected herself to the nomination process, but I doubt that.

When Obama hired Patti Solis Doyle as the VP Campaign Manager in June, that was his subtle way of telling Hillary to not bother.

[HBox]

Drudge is running a story right now that makes it appear to be Bayh based on some political printing company that is printing Obama/Bayh pamphlets and the like.

I saw a picture of it and I hope its fake simply because that bumper sticker looks incredibly amateur.

[TooLowBrow]

O-Beyh Obama?
how bout...
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c194/hollowground666/Obey_Fez.jpg

[epo]

I saw a picture of it and I hope its fake simply because that bumper sticker looks incredibly amateur.

Andrea Mitchell is reporting that Bayh & Kaine were told they aren't it....and apparently there is ALOT of activity at the home of one Joe Biden.

[KnoxHarrington]

Still waiting for my text message.

[K.C.]

Drudge is running a story right now that makes it appear to be Bayh based on some political printing company that is printing Obama/Bayh pamphlets and the like.

The campaigns routinely print multiple things for differently possibilities to throw people off the trail.

That's how the NY Post ended up running the 'Kerry picks Gephardt for VP' headline in 2004.


Bayh and Kaine are reportedly out.

It's most likely Showboatin' Joe.

I may have to go do a drive by of his house to scope this thing out.

The only other thing I'd say is that if they haven't announced by Sunday, it's Hillary and they're saving it for the convention.

If it comes tomorrow it's Biden. I'm good with that...I can say I've met the VP many times and had a bunch of conversations with him...and, he hit on my sister-in-law in a Dunkin' Donuts one time.

[HBox]

If it comes tomorrow it's Biden. I'm good with that...I can say I've met the VP many times and had a bunch of conversations with him...and, he hit on my sister-in-law in a Dunkin' Donuts one time.

I hear you can't even get into one of those joints without having an Indian accent. I'M NOT JOKING.

[HBox]

A flight left tonight from Midway to New Castle, DE. (http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/08/fun_with_flightaware_whats_thi.php)

[K.C.]

I hear you can't even get into one of those joints without having an Indian accent. I'M NOT JOKING.

:lol::lol::lol:


The funny thing, is my story is 100%...so Joe's definitely a patron. Makes that quote all the weirder.

[HBox]

:lol::lol::lol:


The funny thing, is my story is 100%...so Joe's definitely a patron. Makes that quote all the weirder.

I always loved how he completely eliminated any out for himself by saying "I'm not joking."

[Tenbatsuzen]

Mah Gawd! It's Kane!

[KnoxHarrington]

This is amusing: Wonkette managed to get a screen grab of a conservative blog swearing they'd shut down if Evan Bayh is not the pick, as shown:

http://wonkette.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/stayredkansas.jpg

They report that the promise is gone now.

Story here: http://wonkette.com/402146/conservative-blog-puts-it-all-on-the-line-and-we-will-hold-them-to-it

[HBox]

This is amusing: Wonkette managed to get a screen grab of a conservative blog swearing they'd shut down if Evan Bayh is not the pick, as shown:

http://wonkette.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/stayredkansas.jpg

They report that the promise is gone now.

Story here: http://wonkette.com/402146/conservative-blog-puts-it-all-on-the-line-and-we-will-hold-them-to-it

The whole blog is gone now.

[scottinnj]

Text Message Transmitting Saturday Morning. (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080822/ap_on_el_pr/veepstakes)

[KnoxHarrington]

The whole blog is gone now.

There's a comment on the Wonkette article where someone saw the site is running on a free GoDaddy account, so I'm sure the link from that site blew that out in no time.

[HBox]

There's a comment on the Wonkette article where someone saw the site is running on a free GoDaddy account, so I'm sure the link from that site blew that out in no time.

It's a shame too. Who's going to keep Kansas red now?

[Don Stugots]

I got a feeling that Its Hillary.

[scottinnj]

Its Hillary.




Only if he wants the entire country become red like it did in 1984

[SP1!]

I will say one thing, though...

Looking at the Electoral-Vote.com map today, the whole 'Obama vs. McCain will change the entire red/blue dynamic' sentiment is turning out to be complete bullshit.

The old school battle lines are pretty much already drawn once again, with Virginia MAYBE being the one exception.

Before long we'll be talking about Florida and Ohio every fucking day.

That map is bullshit, obama is going to lose GA, NC, VA, MO, WV, FL and those states wont be close, he is also going to lose every single state that kerry lost as well.

[epo]

That map is bullshit, obama is going to lose GA, NC, VA, MO, WV, FL and those states wont be close, he is also going to lose every single state that kerry lost as well.

Colorado.

Sorry, you are wrong.

[sailor]

Andrea Mitchell is reporting that Bayh & Kaine were told they aren't it....and apparently there is ALOT of activity at the home of one Joe Biden.

Bayh and Kaine are reportedly out.

It's most likely Showboatin' Joe.

you don't say

[scottinnj]

Secret Service on way to Biden's House (http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/08/us-secret-servi.html)

[K.C.]

Only if he wants the entire country become red like it did in 1984

I think you're crazy on this point...you may not of voted for him, but Obama/Clinton would have trounced McCain.


But that's all water under the bridge, now...

Biden was probably his second best realistic choice. It covers his flank on foreign policy, it gives him some working class credibility, and it makes him look a bit more conservative, because Biden's a little bit more hawkish on foreign policy.

He won't lose anything from the left, because economically and socially, it's still a very liberal ticket.

So while it won't deliver immediate votes to him, like choosing Hillary would have, it helps him a lot image wise.


He was the second best choice, but the most palatable for him.

[scottinnj]

I think you're crazy on this point...you may not of voted for him, but Obama/Clinton would have trounced McCain.


But that's all water under the bridge, now...





Let's just agree to disagree.....























LINGEEEER LONGEEEERR!

Seriously though, it's just about a lock for me voting for Obama. Biden's 1 billion dollar proposal goes a long way to make up for the U.S. looking like a deer in the headlights when Russia invaded Georgia.
I just hope they also challenge Russia to step up to the reconstruction plate as well. After all, Putin is responsible for the damages.

[Friday]

Whocoulditbe??

[Zorro]

CNN's John King confirms its Biden...

[scottinnj]

Whocoulditbe??


<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/swQi4CAzmrA&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/swQi4CAzmrA&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[scottinnj]

Andrea Mitchell is reporting that Bayh & Kaine were told they aren't it....and apparently there is ALOT of activity at the home of one Joe Biden.

A flight left tonight from Midway to New Castle, DE. (http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/08/fun_with_flightaware_whats_thi.php)

Secret Service on way to Biden's House (http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/08/us-secret-servi.html)

Whocoulditbe??

CNN's John King confirms its Biden...


Anyone get their text message yet? Weren't you supposed to be the first to know?

[PapaBear]

Anyone get their text message yet? Weren't you supposed to be the first to know?
I almost donated a dollar so I could sign up. I'm glad I didn't, now.

[scottinnj]

I almost donated a dollar so I could sign up. I'm glad I didn't, now.

I just got mine. Unfortunately for the Obama camp, my text message came from CNN confirming Biden being Obama's VP pick.

[Friday]

Anyone get their text message yet? Weren't you supposed to be the first to know?

ask epo.
he has the super cewl inside edge.
:)

[K.C.]

I guess this means he'll tap Richardson for Secretary of State if he wins.

The rumor all along, was that if he went with one of Biden or Richardson for VP, the other would be a strong candidate for SoS.

[scottinnj]

ask epo.
he has the super cewl inside edge.
:)

He probably has by now, and is just trying to find a way to scan an image of his cellphone screen so he can show us.

[scottinnj]

I guess this means he'll tap Richardson for Secretary of State if he wins.

That would rule.

[K.C.]

An interesting side note to this whole thing:

I know a lot of people in DE politics, and have some family members that work for some of the state elected officials who are already talking about this scenario.

Biden's up for re-election in the senate, which he's expected to win in a landslide. So, someone will be appointed to take his seat if Obama wins the presidency.

The logical choices for the seat are engaged in a heated primary for the Governor in the state right now, where a lot of bridges have been burned.

Minner, the governor, is a second-term incumbent, and her Lt. Governor is expected to win. She'll appoint Biden's replacement. The problem is that the only potential choice that would make any sense is the guy who's expected to lose the Gov. primary, who's burned a lot of bridges.

It's completely within the realm of possibility that the outgoing governor will appoint herself to that seat, while she's still in office.

[BinaryBimbo]

Should be interesting; Biden has said a lot of very damaging stuff about Obama, and he has praised McCain to the point even of saying he would be proud to be on a ticket with McCain as recently as 2006.

On another note. The bs kids game meant nothing in the end except that the youngsters will feel ripped for a buck, (see above), and the damage to older Dems who felt slapped by Obamas plan to tell the youngsters first will still be there.

A boneheaded couple days here - let's hope he gets it all out before the Convention starts Monday. He still has to figure out to explain not vetting Hillary to her delegates representing 18 million votes after saying she would be on anybobys short list of Dem VP picks. This convention could get ugly still. They are going to try and keep it civil and upbeat; but I don't really foresee that at this point.

[BinaryBimbo]

An interesting side note to this whole thing:

I know a lot of people in DE politics, and have some family members that work for some of the state elected officials who are already talking about this scenario.

Biden's up for re-election in the senate, which he's expected to win in a landslide. So, someone will be appointed to take his seat if Obama wins the presidency.

The logical choices for the seat are engaged in a heated primary for the Governor in the state right now, where a lot of bridges have been burned.

Minner, the governor, is a second-term incumbent, and her Lt. Governor is expected to win. She'll appoint Biden's replacement. The problem is that the only potential choice that would make any sense is the guy who's expected to lose the Gov. primary, who's burned a lot of bridges.

It's completely within the realm of possibility that the outgoing governor will appoint herself to that seat, while she's still in office.

Wow Small world; my Nephew is running that Catherine womans campaign that is challenging him.

[Kevin]

Somewhere, a Diablo Sammich is smiling.

[K.C.]

Should be interesting; Biden has said a lot of very damaging stuff about Obama, and he has praised McCain to the point even of saying he would be proud to be on a ticket with McCain as recently as 2006.


I heard Hannity trying to make this his point of attack earlier on.

It's not a criticism that will hold up...Biden will say about McCain, what everyone who ran against him and claimed they liked him (Hillary, Dodd, Richardson) has said:

He moved so far to the right, and became so hawkish to win the Republican nomination, that he's not the guy he once was, even two years ago.


Hannity tried this same tactic AGAINST McCain (you know...when he hated him and swore he'd never vote for him...) in the primary earlier this year by accusing him of considering running with Kerry in '04.

It gained no traction then...it won't gain traction here. Nobody cares about that stuff.


People will care more about that bizarre Dunkin' Donuts speech Biden gave.