Obama - Best President Ever?

[spoon]

whose argument, Stans? Cuz I was just using hyperbole to annoy him. If its WF, I refuse to debate obvious trolling.

My point is that there is a thread created to discuss what you don't like about President Obama and his policies. This is not that thread.

And I don't necessarily think that a President whose views can evolve to accommodate popular public opinion is a bad thing.

And does anyone REALLY wonder if Obama truly didn't give a shit on the marriage issue since day one?

[hanso]

Typical sleazebag politician, waits for an election year to say he's for gay Marriage.

Show me what he has to gain? As he is the first sitting president to ever do this. And that 30 states have passed the redundant law that tab a goes in slot b = marriage.

More votes? From who? A minority?

More money? the Hollywood sect is somehow pro gay because right wing neo cons say so Sosa?

If anything he has gone out on a limb, and any non Neanderthal should give him kudos for it.

[hanso]

<object style="height: 390px; width: 640px"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/fTn7ALbLYPI?version=3&feature=player_detailpage"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/fTn7ALbLYPI?version=3&feature=player_detailpage" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="360"></object>

The rights modern view on gays.

[A.J.]

I loved when Mojo used that creep as his avatar.

[Jujubees2]

The Top 8 Ways To Be 'Traditionally Married' According To The Bible (http://www.upworthy.com/the-top-8-ways-to-be-traditionally-married-according-to-the-bible?g=2&c=la2)

https://upworthy-production.s3.amazonaws.com/nugget/4fad667a42542a00030018ba/attachments/biblemarriage.jpg

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Show me what he has to gain? As he is the first sitting president to ever do this. And that 30 states have passed the redundant law that tab a goes in slot b = marriage.

More votes? From who? A minority?

More money? the Hollywood sect is somehow pro gay because right wing neo cons say so Sosa?

If anything he has gone out on a limb, and any non Neanderthal should give him kudos for it.

A lot of gay donors were witholding their contributions before the announcement.

The Hollywood sect is pro gay because many are progressives. In regards to gays getting married, It doesnt bother me. I posted previously that it wont hurt him in the black and hispanic blocs because even though a majority of them are opposed to gays and intolerant towards them, a huge majority are still going to vote for him


He doesnt deserve kudos, he saw that Biden went off the reservation, there was the election in NC , it was all calculated.

[hanso]

A lot of gay donors were witholding their contributions before the announcement.

The Hollywood sect is pro gay because many are progressives. In regards to gays getting married, It doesnt bother me. I posted previously that it wont hurt him in the black and hispanic blocs because even though a majority of them are opposed to gays and intolerant towards them, a huge majority are still going to vote for him


He doesnt deserve kudos, he saw that Biden went off the reservation, there was the election in NC , it was all calculated.

A lot of gay donors were witholding their contributions before the announcement.

I don't buy this. One side Romney is ditching anyone with gay ties off his staff. The other Obama said what he did, but said it should be left to the states i.e NC the 32nd state to vote like they did. Not a deal breaker.

The Hollywood sect is pro gay because many are progressives. In regards to gays getting married, It doesnt bother me.

I don't buy this. They are a microcosm of the population, polls put overall favorability at around 50% I believe.

I posted previously that it wont hurt him in the black and hispanic blocs because even though a majority of them are opposed to gays and intolerant towards them, a huge majority are still going to vote for him

Those blocs are also religious there is no guarantee they will hold that vote.

He doesnt deserve kudos, he saw that Biden went off the reservation, there was the election in NC , it was all calculated

Biden made a blunder which is the norm for him. Again NC became the 32nd state to vote this way it should hold no light, and actually hurt him as they did vote that way after all.

[keithy_19]

I'm happy the president came out in support of gay marriage, but it doesn't really change much.

[hanso]

I'm happy the president came out in support of gay marriage, but it doesn't really change much.

Well it is a 'change' in that he is the first ever to even bring it up. Many ( like WF ) have stated that there is no change from him. Just thought I would point that part of it out.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

According to Newsweek


http://l3.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/g7cm.hn.NqGBsoBNGl6DNw--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7Zmk9aW5zZXQ7aD0zNTU7cT04NTt3PTYzMA--/http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/News/us.news.abcnews.otus/ht_newsweek_cover_barack_obama_jt_120513_wmain.jpg

[A.J.]

Bullshit. That title goes to James Buchanan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Buchanan#Personal_relationships).

[Silent Beard]

It's amusing to watch the vitriol propaganda spewed by the far left, it this case Hanso, and whatever wrestling fan is. I often struggle with finding a place for myself in politics, largely due to being a moderate. Thanks to the extreme, partisan sector of politics.

First, this is a political announcement. As someone who greatly believes that same sex marriage should be legal, I am exhausted with the hyperbole attached to Obama's vague endorsement of marriage. Obama has had four years to get the ball moving in this area, and has failed the agenda. I mean, he has had time for vacations, time to talk about silly events, but he can't advance gay marriage?

What does he have to gain? He is stirring his constituency up. Elections are not won by getting people to change parties. They are won by getting your party motivated, and generating as much traction with independent voters, as possible.

As someone who voted for Obama, I wish he was much more decisive. Instead, he is far too bought than we were lead to believe.

Obama has done some solid things. So I find people on the right, like wrestling fan, laughable, when they fail to admit as much.

I also find it laughable when people on the left, like Hanso, refuse to point out the negative that he does. Instead of tackling the issues. People like Hanso and wrestling fan resort to distraction from the issues by calling names and using hyperbole. It's sad.

[A.J.]

Obama has done some solid things. So I find people on the right, like wrestling fan, laughable, when they fail to admit as much.

I think he liked it when Obama had bin Ladin killed.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Well it is a 'change' in that he is the first ever to even bring it up. Many ( like WF ) have stated that there is no change from him. Just thought I would point that part of it out.

While he is the 1st president to voice his support for Gay marriage, In many ways things are still the same when it comes to the wars, torture, starting new wars, mismanagement, continuing the patriot act and infringing on civil liberties like the patriot act extension, NDAA and more intrusive TSA.

[spoon]

While he is the 1st president to voice his support for Gay marriage, In many ways things are still the same when it comes to the wars, torture, starting new wars, mismanagement, continuing the patriot act and infringing on civil liberties like the patriot act extension, NDAA and more intrusive TSA.

again, half the shit you say simply isn't true just bc you post it

:wallbash:

[WRESTLINGFAN]

again, half the shit you say simply isn't true just bc you post it

:wallbash:

So was it Obamas alterego Barry signing the NDAA. Extending the patriot act, bombing Libya without consent from congress, presiding over a more intrusive tsa and other examples?

[spoon]

While he is the 1st president to voice his support for Gay marriage, In many ways things are still the same when it comes to the wars (Not even CLOSE!), torture (Simply put, NO.), starting new wars (Yah, Lybia the Vietnam of our generation right?), mismanagement (Some surely, less than with W A HUGE IMPROVEMENT in much tougher conditions.), continuing the patriot act and infringing on civil liberties like the patriot act extension (Don't agree with him here but I'm hoping it gets nixed in term 2, even if R. Clarke claims the utilization is night and day different under Obama vs. W), NDAA (HATE this move and I've made that clear many times which I'm sure you're aware of.) and more intrusive TSA (Bullshit issue to me...completely ridiculous bs).

So was it Obamas alterego Barry (Classic WF!) signing the NDAA (see above for most rundowns that you just repeated in true parrot style). Extending the patriot act, bombing Libya without consent from congress (HA! Here we go again. As if the GOP wouldn't FRY him if they could on this in ANY WAY.), presiding over a more intrusive tsa and other examples?

Again, :wallbash:.

[spoon]

May I suggest people give WF's twitter a look over.

It's amazing to see what he puts here isn't quite as bad and devoid of humor the more he tries.

adam damiano ‏ @addamia5
Obama lie of the day. He said taxes wouldn't go up. However he raised taxes on tobacco products

adam damiano ‏ @addamia5
Obama claims there's a war on women but he gives 1 billion to the Muslim brotherhood

This one was tweeted multiple times bc all it takes is a rhyme to make good comedy right!
adam damiano ‏ @addamia5
@billmaher Romney put his dog in a crate. Obama put his on a plate


adam damiano ‏ @addamia5
@billmaher hey bill That fluke girl should prepare for the bar exam and not hook up at the bar

adam damiano ‏ @addamia5
Illegal immigration raises disease risks | disease, cases, chickens - News Source for Jacksonville..


SOooooo much more gold in that there WF mine!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Afghanistan isnt a continued fuckup? Is Libya a bastion for a democracy ? Can a President, any president go to war unilaterally ?Torture still isnt going on? So Jeremy Scahill from the Nation, Hardly a right wing publication is lying about torture? Cancer patients and 4 year olds arent having their civil liberties violated?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

May I suggest people give WF's twitter a look over.

It's amazing to see what he puts here isn't quite as bad and devoid of humor the more he tries.





This one was tweeted multiple times bc all it takes is a rhyme to make good comedy right!







SOooooo much more gold in that there WF mine!




Shocking that I post to twitter the same views as this thread.

[spoon]

Afghanistan isnt a continued fuckup? Is Libya a bastion for a democracy ? Can a President, any president go to war unilaterally ?Torture still isnt going on? So Jeremy Scahill from the Nation, Hardly a right wing publication is lying about torture? Cancer patients and 4 year olds arent having their civil liberties violated?

so much bullshit, too little time/care to go down repetition road once again

Obama is hardly perfect, but your take on almost any issue is so fucking biased and driven by it you'll never even consider the other side of these issues.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

so much bullshit, too little time/care to go down repetition road once again

Obama is hardly perfect, but your take on almost any issue is so fucking biased and driven by it you'll never even consider the other side of these issues.

What are you talking about? I presented examples and you say shit like bias. Tell me where it says that a President can go to war without a declaration or some sort of consent from congress?


Biasness would be that I find no fault in Romney for example, when you know thats not true at all

Sorry, If I dont fall into the Obama isnt perfect but hes still my choice fan club.

Shame on me for not wanting an overreaching federal government no matter who is the Chief Executive

[spoon]

all your pts/q's were addressed plenty in the past and by me only a few short posts back

no merry go round again wf, sorry to tell you but your bullshit tactics don't back up the bullshit points in ANY way

[StanUpshaw]

all your pts/q's were addressed plenty in the past and by me only a few short posts back

no merry go round again wf, sorry to tell you but your bullshit tactics don't back up the bullshit points in ANY way

You didn't really address any of them, you just said "nuh-uh"

[WRESTLINGFAN]

all your pts/q's were addressed plenty in the past and by me only a few short posts back

no merry go round again wf, sorry to tell you but your bullshit tactics don't back up the bullshit points in ANY way

Disagreeing with me doesnt refute anything

[spoon]

Like I stated, every single topic had been refuted MULTIPLE times in the past in one of WF's 30 Obama threads, and some are so comical that it's not even worth trying to sway a completely ridiculous angle on a topic (even though many have tried). On a select few, I actually do not like the policy or direction overall and noted it.

Sorry boys, but unless it's a new issue or at least a new take, have fun looking back for old arguments you WF simply ignores or Stan hates bc anything linked to a government job or policy is simply waste and or intrusive.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Like I stated, every single topic had been refuted MULTIPLE times in the past in one of WF's 30 Obama threads, and some are so comical that it's not even worth trying to sway a completely ridiculous angle on a topic (even though many have tried). On a select few, I actually do not like the policy or direction overall and noted it.

Sorry boys, but unless it's a new issue or at least a new take, have fun looking back for old arguments you WF simply ignores or Stan hates bc anything linked to a government job or policy is simply waste and or intrusive.



Refuted by what? Your disagreements?

[spoon]

Refuted by what? Your disagreements?

ROUND AND ROUND (Ratt style)

Why read?

Why comprehend anything now!?

[Silent Beard]

I think he liked it when Obama had bin Ladin killed.

Obama has done a very good job, as Commander-in-chief. I don't believe anyone can dispute that.

[StanUpshaw]

Except for anyone who likes peace.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

But Obama is a peace president. He won that shiny prize from the Scandanavians

[Crispy123]

Fucking Obama...now he's telling people they cant walk and text at the same time.

anybody else hear about this???


anybody???


seriously, walking and texting, you guys should look into it.

[A.J.]

Fucking Obama...now he's telling people they cant walk and text at the same time.

anybody else hear about this???


anybody???


seriously, walking and texting, you guys should look into it.

Yes, (http://www.ronfez.net/forums/showthread.php?t=90689&page=9)

yes, (http://www.ronfez.net/forums/showthread.php?t=91390&page=3)

yes. (http://www.ronfez.net/forums/showthread.php?t=91827)

[Crispy123]

Yes, (http://www.ronfez.net/forums/showthread.php?t=90689&page=9)

yes, (http://www.ronfez.net/forums/showthread.php?t=91390&page=3)

yes. (http://www.ronfez.net/forums/showthread.php?t=91827)

don't be coy, AJ. Just post one link to Fox news or it doesn't count.

[Bob Impact]

Just for the sake of clarity, 2010 was the worst year for casualties in Afghanistan, followed by 2011 and 2009 respectively. So no, I wouldn't say the war is going well at all.

http://icasualties.org/oef/ByYear.aspx

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Only in America. Uncle Onyango can drive again


http://www.bostonherald.com/news/regional/view.bg?articleid=1061131786

[spoon]

Just for the sake of clarity, 2010 was the worst year for casualties in Afghanistan, followed by 2011 and 2009 respectively. So no, I wouldn't say the war is going well at all.

http://icasualties.org/oef/ByYear.aspx

And just for the sake of clarity OVERALL, our involvement there drastically increased under Obama due to it being a true target in this shitty war, versus Iraq being that focus in the past. It's winding down soon, but I wouldn't say it's not going well either. Death is never a good thing of course, but as involvement increases our risks and losses will too. Judging by this factor alone is simply off.

Do I think the war there is going well, of course not. Does any war in that shit hole go well in recent history? We may never truly realize the impact of said conflict, postitive or negative, but ultimately we aren't going to change that place in any real fashion. We can only hope to limit their impact on the rest of the world and the stability of the middle east/that region overall.

[spoon]

Only in America. Uncle Onyango can drive again


http://www.bostonherald.com/news/regional/view.bg?articleid=1061131786

yes, laws...crazy shit

“The hardship restriction was lifted today as allowed by law,” Lavoie said.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

There's also immigration law which you completely overshadowed

[spoon]

There's also immigration law which you completely overshadowed

did I or did you just play it up?

it's a court matter as well, not something you or I can intercede on

again, law

[WRESTLINGFAN]

did I or did you just play it up?

it's a court matter as well, not something you or I can intercede on

again, law

If he was a citizen I could understand the hardship plea.

The court has the power to send his ass back to Kenya. But Massachusetts is a sanctuary state and hes related to the president. Thats why the worthless aunt aint shipped back either. She bitches how bad she has it here but the cunt is living in public housing and receiving lavish taxpayer benefits


You like to pick and choose what laws are to be enforced

[Bob Impact]

And just for the sake of clarity OVERALL, our involvement there drastically increased under Obama due to it being a true target in this shitty war, versus Iraq being that focus in the past. It's winding down soon, but I wouldn't say it's not going well either. Death is never a good thing of course, but as involvement increases our risks and losses will too. Judging by this factor alone is simply off.

Do I think the war there is going well, of course not. Does any war in that shit hole go well in recent history? We may never truly realize the impact of said conflict, postitive or negative, but ultimately we aren't going to change that place in any real fashion. We can only hope to limit their impact on the rest of the world and the stability of the middle east/that region overall.

Even the efficacy of the surge is questionable depending on who you ask.
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-05-01/news/sns-rt-us-usa-afghanistanbre84015b-20120501_1_taliban-operations-resilient-insurgency-surge-troops
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/oct/11/payoff-seen-in-afghan-surge/?page=all
http://security.blogs.cnn.com/2012/05/06/feinstein-and-rogers-taliban-stronger-now-than-before-afghanistan-surge/

With the draw down plan from Obama as it stands today we're going to have ~65,000 troops still there with no specifics about when they're coming home. Add into that the fact that the Pentagon has brought up the idea of leaving 25,000 troops there until 2024 and it looks like winding down isn't going to happen any time soon.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/afghanistan/8712701/US-troops-may-stay-in-Afghanistan-until-2024.html

[spoon]

Even the efficacy of the surge is questionable depending on who you ask.
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-05-01/news/sns-rt-us-usa-afghanistanbre84015b-20120501_1_taliban-operations-resilient-insurgency-surge-troops
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/oct/11/payoff-seen-in-afghan-surge/?page=all
http://security.blogs.cnn.com/2012/05/06/feinstein-and-rogers-taliban-stronger-now-than-before-afghanistan-surge/

With the draw down plan from Obama as it stands today we're going to have ~65,000 troops still there with no specifics about when they're coming home. Add into that the fact that the Pentagon has brought up the idea of leaving 25,000 troops there until 2024 and it looks like winding down isn't going to happen any time soon.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/afghanistan/8712701/US-troops-may-stay-in-Afghanistan-until-2024.html

Oh I want out completely, don't think I want us there still. However, I just thought it was pretty important to add that factor to the post.

[spoon]

If he was a citizen I could understand the hardship plea.

The court has the power to send his ass back to Kenya. But Massachusetts is a sanctuary state and hes related to the president. Thats why the worthless aunt aint shipped back either. She bitches how bad she has it here but the cunt is living in public housing and receiving lavish taxpayer benefits


You like to pick and choose what laws are to be enforced

I'M picking and choosing? Ha! States rights...am I right!? Not one thing tied to his relation to the president. It's a legal matter that MANY others are in, much less it's been going on with this guy since Obama was a very young man with very little to no influence. Talk about picking and choosing!? How about just making shit up like you do and THEN picking and choosing!? Nice work.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I'M picking and choosing? Ha! States rights...am I right!? Not one thing tied to his relation to the president. It's a legal matter that MANY others are in, much less it's been going on with this guy since Obama was a very young man with very little to no influence. Talk about picking and choosing!? How about just making shit up like you do and THEN picking and choosing!? Nice work.

It is picking and choosing. You rail against AZ and AL and cheer the lawsuits by Holder when he admitted he didnt read those bills but allow MA to be a sanctuary state. One state decides its had enough bad. Another state lets illegals roam free and go to college at reduced cost and you cheer for it.

If you believe in States rights, then you would advocate illegals going to a state like CA where the red carpet is rolled out for them.

It has to do with everything about Obama being president, If that was an illegal Mexican or Guatemalan he would have been deported. It happens all the time. Once its deemed that a drunk driver is here illegally an ICE detainer is put on him so even if he has money for bail he cant be released

[spoon]

It is picking and choosing. You rail against AZ and AL and cheer the lawsuits by Holder when he admitted he didnt read those bills but allow MA to be a sanctuary state. One state decides its had enough bad. Another state lets illegals roam free and go to college at reduced cost and you cheer for it.

It has to do with everything about Obama being president, If that was an illegal Mexican or Guatemalan he would have been deported. It happens all the time. Once its deemed that a drunk driver is here illegally an ICE detainer is put on him so even if he has money for bail he cant be released

Not once did I "cheer for it" or anything you allude to. I also do not, never have and never will cheer the lawsuits by Holder, his reading habits or MA as a sanctuary state. I simply put it's being handled based on the laws in place and their interpretation. There has been little or no intervention from Obama reported on the case, yet you make those ties consistently with awful jokes of course.

It has little to do with Obama but some to do with his policy if we are simply talking about national immigration policy...which we were not. Of course another topic was posted to blatantly attack Obama in his thread and when called out on it's absurdity you change the subject.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Not once did I "cheer for it" or anything you allude to. I also do not, never have and never will cheer the lawsuits by Holder, his reading habits or MA as a sanctuary state. I simply put it's being handled based on the laws in place and their interpretation. There has been little or no intervention from Obama reported on the case, yet you make those ties consistently with awful jokes of course.

It has little to do with Obama but some to do with his policy if we are simply talking about national immigration policy...which we were not. Of course another topic was posted to blatantly attack Obama in his thread and when called out on it's absurdity you change the subject.

How naive can you be ? This makes 2 of Obamas relatives who will be allowed to stay here and not be deported.

[StanUpshaw]

How naive can you be ? This makes 2 of Obamas relatives who will be alive to stay here and not be deported.

Freudian slip?????

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Freudian slip?????

Corrected

[spoon]

How naive can you be ? This makes 2 of Obamas relatives who will be allowed to stay here and not be deported.

Do you have any clue how many of these cases exist? And they aren't allowed to do anything at this point, there are active cases.

[high fly]

And just for the sake of clarity OVERALL, our involvement there drastically increased under Obama due to it being a true target in this shitty war, versus Iraq being that focus in the past. It's winding down soon, but I wouldn't say it's not going well either. Death is never a good thing of course, but as involvement increases our risks and losses will too. Judging by this factor alone is simply off.

Do I think the war there is going well, of course not. Does any war in that shit hole go well in recent history? We may never truly realize the impact of said conflict, postitive or negative, but ultimately we aren't going to change that place in any real fashion. We can only hope to limit their impact on the rest of the world and the stability of the middle east/that region overall.



War?
What war?
In May 2003, on the same day Bush gave his "Mission Accomplished" speech on the aircraft carrier, Donald Rumsfeld likewise declared combat operations were over in Afghanistan, too.
That cleared the way for Bush's "Marshall Plan for Afghanistan."
Rummy had to say so in a regular suit instead of a pilot costume.

[Bob Impact]

War?
What war?
In May 2003, on the same day Bush gave his "Mission Accomplished" speech on the aircraft carrier, Donald Rumsfeld likewise declared combat operations were over in Afghanistan, too.
That cleared the way for Bush's "Marshall Plan for Afghanistan."
Rummy had to say so in a regular suit instead of a pilot costume.

Well there's your problem. Major combat operations can only be ended by a middle age man playing dress up.

[hanso]

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Well there's your problem. Major combat operations can only be ended by a middle age man playing dress up.

[high fly]

Well there's your problem. Major combat operations can only be ended by a middle age man playing dress up.

Right.
I am unaware of any occasion where President Bush or Rumsfeld was asked about the "Marshall Plan for Afghanistan" after, say, 2003.

[hanso]

For a Muslim Obama sure likes killing his own with drones.

[Dude!]

he's killing off all his rivals
to be head of the moslem caliphate

[Crispy123]

Pres Obama setting records.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/05/obama-easily-switches-into-campaign-mode-for-fundraisers/

Obama has headlined 132 re-election fundraisers for his campaign and the Democratic Party since early last year, according to tracking by ABC News and U.S. Naval Academy political scientist Brendan Doherty.

[Crispy123]

President Obama ends the Republican poltical games by using executive priviledge for the only time during his presidency so maybe Congress will actually get to work on the economy, immigration, and transportation.

We are ten days away from the expiration of federal transportation funding which guarantees jobs for almost a million construction workers because Congress hasn’t passed a transportation bill. We are eleven days away from nearly seven and a half million students seeing their loan rates double because Congress hasn’t acted to stop it. But instead of creating jobs or strengthening the middle-class, Congressional Republicans are spending their time on a politically-motivated, taxpayer-funded election-year fishing expedition

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/20/obama-executive-privilege-fast-and-furious_n_1611962.html?utm_hp_ref=politics&utm_hp_ref=politics

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Obama in 2007 saying he was against using E.P.


Immigration? fuck congress he can pass amnesty and allow 800,000 people compete with Americans for jobs.


Obama had 3 years to work on the economy. He tanked it even more.


Looks like Obamacare will go down in flames and possibly the Arizona bill will be upheld. Not a good month for the President

[Crispy123]

President Obama recognizes the value of law abiding citizens to society and offers work visas for qualified immigrants, while the republitards in congress sit with their thumbs up their asses spewing on about what should and should not go into a womans vag. This is the GOPs worst nightmare.

http://news.yahoo.com/u-stop-deporting-young-illegal-immigrants-100217841.html;_ylt=A2KLOzKbRNtPb0EA4orQtDMD

[WRESTLINGFAN]

So If I was president and I wanted to kill the income tax and congress struck down the chance to repeal the 16th amendment can I just sign an executive order saying no more income tax?


Obama violated the constitution. Now I would disagree with giving 800,000 people amnesty if congress passed it but at least it would have been done the right way

[Crispy123]

So If I was president and I wanted to kill the income tax and congress struck down the chance to repeal the 16th amendment can I just sign an executive order saying no more income tax?


Obama violated the constitution. Now I would disagree with giving 800,000 people amnesty if congress passed it but at least it would have been done the right way

when you learn how to debate you might get an answer from me.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

2012

HIS-PANDERING in an election year

[WRESTLINGFAN]

when you learn how to debate you might get an answer from me.

When you learn the functions of each branch of government you will be taken seriously

[Crispy123]

we get it WFox news.

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[WRESTLINGFAN]

Predictable

[Crispy123]

Predictable

very very predictable.

[hanso]

Obama in 2007 saying he was against using E.P.


Immigration? fuck congress he can pass amnesty and allow 800,000 people compete with Americans for jobs.


Obama had 3 years to work on the economy. He tanked it even more.


Looks like Obamacare will go down in flames and possibly the Arizona bill will be upheld. Not a good month for the President

Holy shit man these are all twisted shit Fox news puts on. No wonder he hounds you over it.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Holy shit man these are all twisted shit Fox news puts on. No wonder he hounds you over it.

This has nothing to do with fox news. Its acknowledging the separation of powers. Idealogy aside, this opens the door to presidents that you might not agree with. Example


2020 President Santorum signs an executive order banning the building of mosques and banning pornography.


Also Obamas amnesty in a time of 8% unemployment is a horrible decision along with an unconstitutional one. I happen to believe that the number of illegals is at least double that amount. Youre adding a huge amount of people to the supply of bodies to the labor force.

[Syd]

They're already in the work force. Plus, they're not exactly working jobs that whites are knocking down doors to do.

Also executive orders are a way of checking the power of congress. You know, in case the congress is logjammed because everyone is worried about getting their guy elected.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Illegals arent just scrubbing shitters and picking lettuce. They are in construction, painting and other semi skilled labor thus suppressing wages


Plus hes giving work permits for a larger supply of labor.

Executive orders were not designed to circumvent congress regardless of a Presidents opinion

[StanUpshaw]

Illegals arent just scrubbing shitters and picking lettuce. They are in construction, painting and other semi skilled labor thus suppressing wages

So which bits and pieces of the economy should have protection, and which should be subject to the free market?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

So which bits and pieces of the economy should have protection, and which should be subject to the free market?

Which group of people are subject to the law and which group arent?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

What if President Romney wanted no cap gains across the board and it was blocked in the Senate? Should he just sign an executive order?

[StanUpshaw]

Which group of people are subject to the law and which group arent?

I could give a fuck about people breaking unjust laws.

Back up your argument.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I could give a fuck about people breaking unjust laws.

Back up your argument.

There shouldnt be any government protection for any industry. The point is that there is now an excess supply of labor and that naturally lowers wages.


You can not have uncontrolled immigration and a modern welfare state.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I could give a fuck about people breaking unjust laws.

Back up your argument.

I just did


Why are they unjust? because you disagree with them? You dont have a problem with your money being redistributed to illegal foreigners and their extended families?

The income tax is unjust but If I don't file the necessary paperwork or pay whats required Im threatened with jail via a barrel of a gun and or my property and assets seized

[StanUpshaw]

Why are they unjust? because you disagree with them?
An unjust law is one that criminalizes victimless behavior. An unjust law is one that limits the freedom of an individual to pursue prosperity through voluntary trade. An unjust law is one that qualifies your skin color as reasonable suspicion.

You dont have a problem with your money being redistributed to illegal foreigners and their extended families?

I have a problem with my money being redistributed. Full stop.

But the answer is never destroying more freedom. I don't know why I have to describe this to a so-called libertarian.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

An unjust law is one that criminalizes victimless behavior. An unjust law is one that limits the freedom of an individual to pursue prosperity through voluntary trade. An unjust law is one that qualifies your skin color as reasonable suspicion.



I have a problem with my money being redistributed. Full stop.

But the answer is never destroying more freedom. I don't know why I have to describe this to a so-called libertarian.



The other side is that its taking away from your freedom as you are subsidizing another family against your will via the tax system

[StanUpshaw]

The other side is that its taking away from your freedom as you are subsidizing another family against your will via the tax system

Then THAT is where you should be directing your ire.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Then THAT is where you should be directing your ire.

Ive always called for repealing the income tax and ending the federal government's practice to redistribute money for unconstitutional purposes.

I would not have a problem if there was open immigration and no welfare state and government not being involved in every part of the economy as wages and consumer prices would seek their natural level. The core of libertarianism is open immigration

My concern is the combination of open immigration added to a modern welfare state.

[StanUpshaw]

Ive always called for repealing the income tax and ending the federal government's practice to redistribute money for unconstitutional purposes.

I would not have a problem if there was open immigration and no welfare state and government not being involved in every part of the economy as wages and consumer prices would seek their natural level. The core of libertarianism is open immigration

My concern is the combination of open immigration added to a modern welfare state.

Less than a month ago you were arguing that it's unjust to limit the freedom to drink gallons of soda, despite the added costs borne by the welfare state. (http://www.ronfez.net/forums/showthread.php?t=90689&page=9)

Can you explain why this doesn't make you a hypocrite?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Less than a month ago you were arguing that it's unjust to limit the freedom to drink gallons of soda, despite the added costs borne by the welfare state. (http://www.ronfez.net/forums/showthread.php?t=90689&page=9)

Explain why this doesn't make you a hypocrite?

Each person should be able to drink as much as they want, and smoke as much as they want. but they should deal with the consequences of their actions and not bear the burden on you via barrel of a gun via the government.

If you ride a Harley and dont use a helmet and your head is splattered on the pavement from an accident its your fault for not wearing a helmet. I dont want the gov't mandating that you wear one

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Get the government out of the healthcare industry and problem solved.

[StanUpshaw]

Each person should be able to drink as much as they want, and smoke as much as they want. but they should deal with the consequences of their actions and not bear the burden on you via barrel of a gun via the government.

If you ride a Harley and dont use a helmet and your head is splattered on the pavement from an accident its your fault for not wearing a helmet. I dont want the gov't mandating that you wear one

Get the government out of the healthcare industry and problem solved.


When it's an American's freedom versus the burden placed upon the welfare state, you support freedom.

When it's a wetback's freedom versus the burden placed upon the welfare state, you are against freedom.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

When it's an American's freedom versus the burden placed upon the welfare state, you support freedom.

When it's a wetback's freedom versus the burden placed upon the welfare state, you are against freedom.

The wetback or American receiving wealth from you against your will isn't freedom

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Is it freedom for anyone regardless of skin color to have the right to your wealth and you having the responsibility to give it to them?

[StanUpshaw]

The wetback or American receiving wealth from you against your will isn't freedom

Correct. Now back to the point at hand...

[StanUpshaw]

Is it freedom for anyone regardless of skin color to have the right to your wealth and you having the responsibility to give it to them?

Bitch, do you forget who you're talking to?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Bitch, do you forget who you're talking to?


A small choir on this board.

[Syd]

Is it freedom for anyone regardless of skin color to have the right to your wealth and you having the responsibility to give it to them?

You're mistaking that you have any right to wealth to begin with -- you exist in a society where the illegal immigrants contribute to your own income. No one lives in a vacuum, society as a whole contributes to the majority of your success. Don't believe it? Try imagining your job without, say, roads. Society as a whole contributes to them, and for some people they probably don't feel like you have a right to their wealth that they pay on building and maintaining roads.

[StanUpshaw]

I've created this Venn diagram to illustrate your flawed understanding of freedom:

http://i.imgur.com/Tck0J.png

[StanUpshaw]

You're mistaking that you have any right to wealth to begin with -- you exist in a society where the illegal immigrants contribute to your own income. No one lives in a vacuum, society as a whole contributes to the majority of your success. Don't believe it? Try imagining your job without, say, roads. Society as a whole contributes to them, and for some people they probably don't feel like you have a right to their wealth that they pay on building and maintaining roads.

I tried to imagine my job without roads, but it didn't last long because an entrepreneur showed up and built one.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I've created this Venn diagram to illustrate your flawed understanding of freedom:

http://i.imgur.com/Tck0J.png

That diagram is flawed as it should read Mexicans and Americans taking your wealth

[WRESTLINGFAN]

You're mistaking that you have any right to wealth to begin with -- you exist in a society where the illegal immigrants contribute to your own income. No one lives in a vacuum, society as a whole contributes to the majority of your success. Don't believe it? Try imagining your job without, say, roads. Society as a whole contributes to them, and for some people they probably don't feel like you have a right to their wealth that they pay on building and maintaining roads.

I live in a society where that cycle includes them taking my income against my will. I have a choice in mowing my own lawn. I dont have a choice on how my taxes get doled out

[Syd]

I tried to imagine my job without roads, but it didn't last long because an entrepreneur showed up and built one.

And then that entrepreneur built up roads to each and every home, each rail terminal, each airport and each warehouse but didn't try to turn a profit on them right away because capitalism is fine with a very long term plan for financial success. Roads aren't cheap -- $100k+ per mile to lay a two lane road with a shoulder assuming the area is already graded and cleared. Oh, and the banking system that was already set up by another entrepreneur that is completely fair is totally fine with risking to capitalize that original entrepreneur without any real collateral because a unified currency system doesn't currently exist.

That's the problem with libertarian utopia -- the free market isn't all that efficient at directing resources. Government and socialism is a far more equitable way of distributing resources for something so vast. Want proof? Guess how many vacant houses there are versus how many homeless people there are. Capitalism is only efficient at profiting from resource allocation.

But, hey, keep wishing in one hand and shitting in the other, shithands. The free market is just oh so good at providing infrastructure.

I live in a society where that cycle includes them taking my income against my will. I have a choice in mowing my own lawn. I dont have a choice on how my taxes get doled out

And I live in a society which income is taken against my will so that it can be used to buy missiles to blow up homes and weddings in the Middle East or to pay mercenaries to commit atrocities all over the place. Shit happens, you live with it or you go out and vote to make things different. If things don't become different it's because your opinion isn't all that popular. Your stances are the black licorice of the country.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

You're preaching to the choir about drones and endless occupations. Keep voting for the eloquent speaker or the guy who has nice hair and you keep having the same business as usual

[StanUpshaw]

Guess how many vacant houses there are versus how many homeless people there are. Capitalism is only efficient at profiting from resource allocation.

Free markets didn't create the housing boom & crash, shitbrains/shitethics/shitler.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/168507_10150899117395197_310531477_n.jpg

[Syd]

Free markets didn't create the housing boom & crash, shitbrains/shitethics/shitler.

Nice jump to conclusions mat, I was stating that there is and has been more housing available than there are homeless people. Glad to see you come and white knight though, we're all proud that you worship a fairy tale ideology.

[Crispy123]

Nice jump to conclusions mat, I was stating that there is and has been more housing available than there are homeless people. Glad to see you come and white knight though, we're all proud that you worship a fairy tale ideology.

ha! :laugh:

I get it...he worships big gay asses. :lol:

[StanUpshaw]

Nice jump to conclusions mat, I was stating that there is and has been more housing available than there are homeless people. Glad to see you come and white knight though, we're all proud that you worship a fairy tale ideology.

Better to worship a true ideology....that murdered tens of millions.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Hey it did make the survivors all equal, equally poor, Except the political class.

[spoon]

So If I was president and I wanted to kill the income tax and congress struck down the chance to repeal the 16th amendment can I just sign an executive order saying no more income tax?


Obama violated the constitution. Now I would disagree with giving 800,000 people amnesty if congress passed it but at least it would have been done the right way

just stop

some gems for WF

The gun-walking technique, which had roots in previous operations carried out by federal agents in Arizona during the administration of President George W. Bush, eventually led to a number of weapons being lost in the flow. Some of the guns were recovered at crime scenes on both sides of the U.S.-Mexico border.


In his letter, Cole wrote that the Justice Department had already sufficiently proven that those statements had not been part of a deliberate effort to obstruct, and that the requests for more recent documents don't mesh with the probe's stated purpose of reforming the failed practices used in Operation Fast and Furious.

This is the first time Obama has asserted executive privilege. In an email to The Huffington Post, an administration official noted that Bush exercised the authority six times, while former President Bill Clinton did it 14 times. As the Republican National Committee was quick to point out Wednesday, then-candidate Obama criticized Bush for using the practice in 2007.



And this is just CLASSIC bullshit.
"Until now, everyone believed that the decisions regarding 'Fast and Furious' were confined to the Department of Justice," Steel said. "The White House decision to invoke executive privilege implies that White House officials were either involved in the 'Fast and Furious' operation or the cover-up that followed. The Administration has always insisted that wasn't the case. Were they lying, or are they now bending the law to hide the truth?"

[Syd]

Better to worship a true ideology....that murdered tens of millions.

Libertarianism would rack up just as many if it was any less far-fetched than I Dream of Jeannie. It'd drive us straight back to feudalism as all the fat Randnerds realized that the free market isn't going to prevent a new form of government based on strength of militias formed. But, hey, gold.

[Bob Impact]

They're really bringing up Bush a lot in this whole thing. Feels diversionary.

[StanUpshaw]

Libertarianism would rack up just as many if it was any less far-fetched than I Dream of Jeannie. It'd drive us straight back to feudalism as all the fat Randnerds realized that the free market isn't going to prevent a new form of government based on strength of militias formed. But, hey, gold.

Famines, gulags, ethnic cleansing, endless war.

But you're right: it's not a fantasy, it's well within our grasp.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

just stop

some gems for WF







And this is just CLASSIC bullshit.

The program under the Bush admin tracked the weapons. It didnt turn to shit until the Obama admin. What the current admin trying to hide? Also why is Obama using E.P. if he wasnt involved in this at all? E.P. means that the president is involved.

If you want to pin this under the previous admin then you should advocate that the Obama admin release all the documents and see if Holder can be vindicated


But thats not the case, under this administration 200 Mexicans a border and INS agent are dead and hundreds of weapons still unaccounted for

partisan hackery as usual by you

[StanUpshaw]

partisan hackery as usual by you

Exactly. If whatshisname was here...Whispering Merkin...he'd say SHAME ON YOU.

[Crispy123]

hey kettle...u blacker than a ma phucka!

[spoon]

The program under the Bush admin tracked the weapons. It didnt turn to shit until the Obama admin. What the current admin trying to hide? Also why is Obama using E.P. if he wasnt involved in this at all? E.P. means that the president is involved.

If you want to pin this under the previous admin then you should advocate that the Obama admin release all the documents and see if Holder can be vindicated


But thats not the case, under this administration 200 Mexicans a border and INS agent are dead and hundreds of weapons still unaccounted for

partisan hackery as usual by you

Not partisan at all, just points bc I'm not BASHING others involved, just pointing key missing information from your constant witch hunt here. And I'm the partisan hack? HA! You just dismissed the same thing immediately based on a gun now being linked. For fuck's sake WF, you truly think it's the first time? Right or wrong, agree with the tactic or not, you can't be so fucking stupid. But you're right WF, the past admin just started it all and simply tracked weapons, but the continuation of the same fucking thing is different.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Famines, gulags, ethnic cleansing, endless war.

But you're right: it's not a fantasy, it's well within our grasp.

Look how its working in North Korea



http://ts1.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=4999754840867748&id=7a2ad00d552fc70280113377a9fc63d1

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Not partisan at all, just points bc I'm not BASHING others involved, just pointing key missing information from your constant witch hunt here. And I'm the partisan hack? HA! You just dismissed the same thing immediately based on a gun now being linked. For fuck's sake WF, you truly think it's the first time? Right or wrong, agree with the tactic or not, you can't be so fucking stupid.

I pointed out to you when it was started under the previous administration as Operation Wide Receiver all weapons were tracked. Must I say in Spanish?


What is the current administration hiding? If they dont have anything to hide they would release everything and vindicate themselves.


Again Why did O invoke E.P. WHEN HE WASNT DIRECTLY INVOLVED?


You sound stupid.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

To explain to Spoon.


A plan by the DOJ to fraud the American people into believing
that gun shops were illegally selling guns to the Mexican cartels, which in
turn would be used to kill fellow Mexican citizens. Those in the DOJ were
willing to accept the deaths of Mexican citizens killed by these weapons as
collateral damage with no remorse. The DOJ could then point to the illegal sale
of weapons by the gun shops and the deaths of Mexican citizens.

Weapons untracked and untraced and more people will be killed.

Eric Holder ignoring subpoenas and stonewalling Congress for 18 months

Why does the DOJ hate Mexicans?

[spoon]

I pointed out to you when it was started under the previous administration as Operation Wide Receiver all weapons were tracked. Must I say in Spanish?


What is the current administration hiding? If they dont have anything to hide they would release everything and vindicate themselves.


Again Why did O invoke E.P. WHEN HE WASNT DIRECTLY INVOLVED?


You sound stupid.


Stupid? You're truly a gem. You posted about operation wide receiver when and so what? I didn't see it and it SURELY wasn't stressed or dissected any. Next, he went EP for what reason? It's fucking there in black and white...this is fucking CONSTANT back and forth and we are THOUSANDS of documents deep based on a completely different investigation that has long ago run its course. What remains is the normal bullshit tie up and smear campaign against each other that simply wastes EVERYONE'S time, money and effort for political positioning and attacks in the media. Presidents invoke EP, as I quoted in the article MUCH MORE OFTEN then Obama has in his term at this point. It's hardly some get out of jail free card you make it out to be which would just incriminate him or any other president. It's usually used for shit that needs to end for so many other reasons like this bullshit. Having this just going on forever for the reasons we all know it is surely doesn't help this country. And often security reasons (national) have been linked to EP as well in the past. But twist away you partisan hack.

[spoon]

To explain to Spoon.


A plan by the DOJ to fraud the American people into believing
that gun shops were illegally selling guns to the Mexican cartels, which in
turn would be used to kill fellow Mexican citizens. Those in the DOJ were
willing to accept the deaths of Mexican citizens killed by these weapons as
collateral damage with no remorse. The DOJ could then point to the illegal sale
of weapons by the gun shops and the deaths of Mexican citizens.

Weapons untracked and untraced and more people will be killed.

Eric Holder ignoring subpoenas and stonewalling Congress for 18 months

Why does the DOJ hate Mexicans?

to explain to WF

you can say the same dumb shit day in and day out and it doesn't make it any more factual or proven

if the DOJ actually hated mexicans, you'd surely be on the other side with this issue

[WRESTLINGFAN]

to explain to WF

you can say the same dumb shit day in and day out and it doesn't make it any more factual or proven

if the DOJ actually hated mexicans, you'd surely be on the other side with this issue

Disagreeing with me can't break the argument.


I have never been involved in the killing of Mexicans, Your federal government has

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Stupid? You're truly a gem. You posted about operation wide receiver when and so what? I didn't see it and it SURELY wasn't stressed or dissected any. Next, he went EP for what reason? It's fucking there in black and white...this is fucking CONSTANT back and forth and we are THOUSANDS of documents deep based on a completely different investigation that has long ago run its course. What remains is the normal bullshit tie up and smear campaign against each other that simply wastes EVERYONE'S time, money and effort for political positioning and attacks in the media. Presidents invoke EP, as I quoted in the article MUCH MORE OFTEN then Obama has in his term at this point. It's hardly some get out of jail free card you make it out to be which would just incriminate him or any other president. It's usually used for shit that needs to end for so many other reasons like this bullshit. Having this just going on forever for the reasons we all know it is surely doesn't help this country. And often security reasons (national) have been linked to EP as well in the past. But twist away you partisan hack.

Again Obama WAS NOT DIRECTLY INVOLVED.


Why is he using EP?

[spoon]

it's all but over now

EP

enjoy

[Crispy123]

to explain to WF

you can say the same dumb shit day in and day out and it doesn't make it any more factual or proven

if the DOJ actually hated mexicans, you'd surely be on the other side with this issue

you might as well turn your tv to hannity and have this conversation. you will get the same exact response.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

to explain to WF

you can say the same dumb shit day in and day out and it doesn't make it any more factual or proven

if the DOJ actually hated mexicans, you'd surely be on the other side with this issue

Say what you really want to say


Its because Holder is black right?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

you might as well turn your tv to hannity and have this conversation. you will get the same exact response.

FOX NEWS? Surprised you didnt say that earlier

[spoon]

Again Obama WAS NOT DIRECTLY INVOLVED.


Why is he using EP?

again, read


how is it so tough to understand that EP doesn't have to involve the president which uses it?

he may simply have had enough, thinks it wasteful and may actually need his DOJ to focus on, well, THEIR FUCKING JOB

[Crispy123]

FOX NEWS? Surprised you didnt say that earlier

it doesn't really need to be said anymore does it? now its just an accepted fact.

[spoon]

you might as well turn your tv to hannity and have this conversation. you will get the same exact response.

i sure as shit know that

but it's just amazing to me his tact on the race card too

you see his parroting of Fox pundits all fucking over this place sprinkled with a few independent twists here and there, like lemon in a coke

yet his inherent racial divide comes out in almost EVERY conversation eventually, as he just did by saying it's bc Holder is black

where the fuck did that come from? and I have to say, I hear this bullshit WHERE?

why not just go for the trifecta now and add something on Obama's "illegal war in Lybia" while you're at it...just do it tangent boy, bc you simply can't help yourself

[spoon]

it doesn't really need to be said anymore does it? now its just an accepted fact.

it's pretty much like the you understood rule in spanish at this point

FUCKING ILLEGALS! Use English grammar you fucks!

[spoon]

Say what you really want to say


Its because Holder is black right?

sigh

why do I bother at all? this is the one area on the board where Udog is actually right

[WRESTLINGFAN]

again, read


how is it so tough to understand that EP doesn't have to involve the president which uses it?

he may simply have had enough, thinks it wasteful and may actually need his DOJ to focus on, well, THEIR FUCKING JOB

Whats he hiding then?

Most transparent administration ever? Another fucking lie by the president.

Obama to the public take your change and shove it

[Crispy123]

sigh

why do I bother at all? this is the one area on the board where Udog is actually right

I'd like to know where the hell holders birth certificate is.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

i sure as shit know that

but it's just amazing to me his tact on the race card too

you see his parroting of Fox pundits all fucking over this place sprinkled with a few independent twists here and there, like lemon in a coke

yet his inherent racial divide comes out in almost EVERY conversation eventually, as he just did by saying it's bc Holder is black

where the fuck did that come from? and I have to say, I hear this bullshit WHERE?

why not just go for the trifecta now and add something on Obama's "illegal war in Lybia" while you're at it...just do it tangent boy, bc you simply can't help yourself

You Crispy and the Fox news fetish, ALT!!!!! STOP!!!!!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

i sure as shit know that

but it's just amazing to me his tact on the race card too

you see his parroting of Fox pundits all fucking over this place sprinkled with a few independent twists here and there, like lemon in a coke

yet his inherent racial divide comes out in almost EVERY conversation eventually, as he just did by saying it's bc Holder is black

where the fuck did that come from? and I have to say, I hear this bullshit WHERE?

why not just go for the trifecta now and add something on Obama's "illegal war in Lybia" while you're at it...just do it tangent boy, bc you simply can't help yourself

Did Obama get a declaration of war or an authorization from Congress to send planes to attack Libya?


Are you salivating over the possibility to have our jets attack Damascus?

WARMONGER!!!!!

[Crispy123]

You Crispy and the Fox news fetish, ALT!!!!! STOP!!!!!

No one wishes it would stop more then me, but we are not the ones with the fetish.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

No one wishes it would stop more then me, but we are not the ones with the fetish.

Yea you are.


Constantly bringing it up.

[spoon]

Whats he hiding then?

Most transparent administration ever? Another fucking lie by the president.

Obama to the public take your change and shove it

perfect

guess where that bullshit argument started too? Yep!

and my change involved a drawn out bullshit attack like this? Sorry, it may be dicy, but I don't consider this "my change" at all, much less that change being shoved. It's not a lie to use EP, it's part of his job and needed with the bullshit this congress is pulling at every fucking turn. Is this program perfect, or even a good approach in the end, who knows? However, let's not act like thousands of documents haven't already been released and this hasn't been dissected for MONTHS and MONTHS. The gun is literally not smoking any longer, no matter how tragic it is. There are ops like this ALL over the country and on the border. The only reason this is a hot topic for the GOP is bc it ties up the POTUS/DOJ and the smear press they try to unleash. It doesn't have to be factual to get people talking, just put out there as we constantly see with Fox and MSNBC and it's bullshit.

[Crispy123]

Yea you are.


Constantly bringing it up.

you mean constantly calling you on it. if you want it to stop then stop doing it.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

perfect

guess where that bullshit argument started too? Yep!

and my change involved a drawn out bullshit attack like this? Sorry, it may be dicy, but I don't consider this "my change" at all, much less that change being shoved. It's not a lie to use EP, it's part of his job and needed with the bullshit this congress is pulling at every fucking turn. Is this program perfect, or even a good approach in the end, who knows? However, let's not act like thousands of documents haven't already been released and this hasn't been dissected for MONTHS and MONTHS. The gun is literally not smoking any longer, no matter how tragic it is. There are ops like this ALL over the country and on the border. The only reason this is a hot topic for the GOP is bc it ties up the POTUS/DOJ and the smear press they try to unleash. It doesn't have to be factual to get people talking, just put out there as we constantly see with Fox and MSNBC and it's bullshit.

Its a scandal because people died and will continue to die. Holder tells congress to fuck off for 18 months. The Gunwalking scandal went to shit under this DOJ and theres no other way to refute it.

They had an agenda and it blew up in their faces.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

you mean constantly calling you on it. if you want it to stop then stop doing it.

You sound childish when someone explains what F&F is and your only rebuttal is Fox news.

[Crispy123]

You sound childish when someone explains what F&F is and your only rebuttal is Fox news.

again, what you really mean is that you cry like a baby everytime I point out your fox news talking points.

[spoon]

Did Obama get a declaration of war or an authorization from Congress to send planes to attack Libya?


Are you salivating over the possibility to have our jets attack Damascus?

WARMONGER!!!!!

again, sigh

you have no care on how things develop, go or turn out...it's all about how to twist it against the guys you don't like, bc that military action sure as shit was no declaration of war in ANY fashion (and you know it)

and of course you are so enlightened to see through it all and sense I just want blood

how prophetic

[spoon]

Its a scandal because people died and will continue to die. Holder tells congress to fuck off for 18 months. The Gunwalking scandal went to shit under this DOJ and theres no other way to refute it.

They had an agenda and it blew up in their faces.

we heard your take 50 times now, thanks for repeating

[WRESTLINGFAN]

we heard your take 50 times now, thanks for repeating

Crispy brings up Fox news constantly and you accuse me of repetition?

[Crispy123]

Crispy brings up Fox news constantly and you accuse me of repetition?

hey...he might actually be getting it!!! :clap:

[WRESTLINGFAN]

again, sigh

you have no care on how things develop, go or turn out...it's all about how to twist it against the guys you don't like, bc that military action sure as shit was no declaration of war in ANY fashion (and you know it)

and of course you are so enlightened to see through it all and sense I just want blood

how prophetic

Go read your constitution


You have no care that a President gets this country in a civil war with no congressional authority and violates the war powers act

[Crispy123]

O wait theres Hanitty O limbaugh again...maybe I spoke too soon.

[spoon]

O wait theres Hanitty O limbaugh again...maybe I spoke too soon.

can't argue with a parrot, you just hope they learn new things once in a while as to keep it from getting boring...too late

[StanUpshaw]

again, what you really mean is that you cry like a baby everytime I point out your fox news talking points.

Thing is you're not pointing out anything. You're just poisoning the well. You never provide any evidence that his arguments are from Fox News, you just assert it. And even if you could prove that he steals opinions from Fox News (to the exclusion of every other news source on the planet, evidently), it's nothing but your old standby: the ad hominem.

Now here's where you try to turn it back on me by intentionally misrepresenting the meaning of ad hom...or wait...your thing now is that you don't care about debate, you just like teasing the retards...or do you have a brand new defense mechanism in store for tonight???

[Crispy123]

Thing is you're not pointing out anything. You're just poisoning the well. You never provide any evidence that his arguments are from Fox News, you just assert it. And even if you could prove that he steals opinions from Fox News (to the exclusion of every other news source on the planet, evidently), it's nothing but your old standby: the ad hominem.

Now here's where you try to turn it back on me by intentionally misrepresenting the meaning of ad hom...or wait...your thing now is that you don't care about debate, you just like teasing the retards...or do you have a brand new defense mechanism in store for tonight???

you been schooled by me 1 too many times that now u wait til i say im leaving to respond to me? thats cute stanny girl.

[StanUpshaw]

Bob and weave

[hanso]

I pointed out to you when it was started under the previous administration as Operation Wide Receiver all weapons were tracked. Must I say in Spanish?


What is the current administration hiding? If they dont have anything to hide they would release everything and vindicate themselves.


Again Why did O invoke E.P. WHEN HE WASNT DIRECTLY INVOLVED?


You sound stupid.


To stop the bullshit from the TeaHouse.
( Issa is an asshat )

[WRESTLINGFAN]

To stop the bullshit from the TeaHouse.
( Issa is an asshat )

Nixon tried to use E.P. over a cut rate burglary and a federal judge rejected it. Nuke codes werent handed over to Mexicans for this scandal, so national security isnt a factor.



The Holder DOJ botched this program

[WRESTLINGFAN]

can't argue with a parrot, you just hope they learn new things once in a while as to keep it from getting boring...too late

You and Crispy are the ones repeating yourselves .


CNN can run a report on the Treyvon Martin story. I can say that Zimmerman might not get convicted of murder and the prosecution went too far going for a murder charge and you invoke Fox news.


Just stop, Its embarassing

[WRESTLINGFAN]

http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/mrz062212dAPR20120621114521.jpg

[Crispy123]

can't argue with a parrot, you just hope they learn new things once in a while as to keep it from getting boring...too late

awwwk fast & furious....awwwwk kenya......awwwwk socialism....awwwwk mexicans....awwwwk coming up next on fox & friends

http://www.amazon-parrot-pictures.com/pepper-is-a-yellow-naped-amazon-parrot-7064.jpg

[Furtherman]

awwwk fast & furious....awwwwk kenya......awwwwk socialism....awwwwk mexicans....awwwwk coming up next on fox & friends

http://www.amazon-parrot-pictures.com/pepper-is-a-yellow-naped-amazon-parrot-7064.jpg

:lol::lol::lol:

Funny 'cause it's true. Sad 'cause it's true too.

[StanUpshaw]

http://i.imgur.com/It0YV.gif

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Squawk Fox News, Squawk accountability, squawk change, squawk race card

[Crispy123]

Thing is you're not pointing out anything. You're just poisoning the well. You never provide any evidence that his arguments are from Fox News, you just assert it. And even if you could prove that he steals opinions from Fox News (to the exclusion of every other news source on the planet, evidently), it's nothing but your old standby: the ad hominem.

Now here's where you try to turn it back on me by intentionally misrepresenting the meaning of ad hom...or wait...your thing now is that you don't care about debate, you just like teasing the retards...or do you have a brand new defense mechanism in store for tonight???

http://i.imgur.com/It0YV.gif

yes. yes you do.

[Furtherman]

Squawk Fox News, Squawk accountability, squawk change, squawk race card

Really? With the exception of me & Fox News, people here actually squawk those other things?

[StanUpshaw]

yes. yes you do.

...zing?

[Crispy123]

...zing?

...ed?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

The DOJ sends a letter to Congress saying they know nothing about F&F then they had to backtrack on it.


But it's Fox news


Great comeback

[Crispy123]

keep typing the same shit over and over then throw in some racist shtick and get pissed about being called on it.

much better.

especially since literally NO ONE has defended the fast & furious program.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I'm pointing out what happened in this scandal.


Guess what? Miami won the NBA title last night



Is that a Fox news conspiracy too?

[Crispy123]

I'm pointing out what happened in this scandal.

yes, repeatedly. without offering anything new. hence, the parrot remarks.

and pretty much everyone is in agreement that the bush program sucks. also it is a disappointment that Pres Obama allowed it to continue as long as it did.

but the 24/7 fox news cycle never ends so you have to keep posting the same shit right?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

yes, repeatedly. without offering anything new. hence, the parrot remarks.

and pretty much everyone is in agreement that the bush program sucks. also it is a disappointment that Pres Obama allowed it to continue as long as it did.

but the 24/7 fox news cycle never ends so you have to keep posting the same shit right?

End it with the fox news bullshit. This scandal was 1st reported by CBS news. Other outlets refused to report on it when it 1st broke.


Remember the US atty scandal? It was nonstop coverage for that and rightfully so.

Ironic that your federal gov't supplied drug cartels with assault rifles but allowed Agent Terry to die in the desert armed with a bean bag gun

[Furtherman]

Other outlets refused to report on it when it 1st broke.



Really? They refused? This has not been mentioned on the ABC, CBS or NBC Nightly News? Or are you being told of a "liberal media coverup"?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Really? They refused? This has not been mentioned on the ABC, CBS or NBC Nightly News? Or are you being told of a "liberal media coverup"?

Refused or at the very most a 30 second segment.

Most people know about F&F now only due to Holder being held in contempt of the house committee

[Furtherman]

Refused or at the very most a 30 second segment.


You're absolutely sure about that? You're positive that Diane Sawyer, Brian Williams and Katie Couric had that info, said "Nahhhh" or "Let do a :30 second piece".

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I did a google search and voila



http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=AmD.dzCXo9UGxQCGn3q5QKSbvZx4?p=nbc+new s+coverage+fast+and+furious&toggle=1&cop=mss&ei=UTF-8&fr=yfp-t-701

[StanUpshaw]

I did a google search and voila



http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=AmD.dzCXo9UGxQCGn3q5QKSbvZx4?p=nbc+new s+coverage+fast+and+furious&toggle=1&cop=mss&ei=UTF-8&fr=yfp-t-701

YAHOO NEWS YAHOO NEWS YAHOO NEWS YAHOO NEWS YAHOO NEWS YAHOO NEWS YAHOO NEWS YAHOO NEWS YAHOO NEWS YAHOO NEWS YAHOO NEWS YAHOO NEWS YAHOO NEWS YAHOO NEWS YAHOO NEWS YAHOO NEWS YAHOO NEWS YAHOO NEWS YAHOO NEWS YAHOO NEWS YAHOO NEWS YAHOO NEWS YAHOO NEWS YAHOO NEWS YAHOO NEWS YAHOO NEWS YAHOO NEWS YAHOO NEWS YAHOO NEWS YAHOO NEWS YAHOO NEWS YAHOO NEWS YAHOO NEWS YAHOO NEWS YAHOO NEWS YAHOO NEWS YAHOO NEWS YAHOO NEWS YAHOO NEWS YAHOO NEWS YAHOO NEWS YAHOO NEWS YAHOO NEWS YAHOO NEWS YAHOO NEWS

[Furtherman]

I did a google search and voila



http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=AmD.dzCXo9UGxQCGn3q5QKSbvZx4?p=nbc+new s+coverage+fast+and+furious&toggle=1&cop=mss&ei=UTF-8&fr=yfp-t-701

Voilà! Thank you "powerful conservative news sources".

So, they were mentioned, just not covered for the entire 1/2 broadcast. Oh, and at a later time. So any investigations that are being started today should be mentioned today, so to forgo any unfortunate pish-posh by these same sites 6 months from now.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Voilà! Thank you "powerful conservative news sources".

So, they were mentioned, just not covered for the entire 1/2 broadcast. Oh, and at a later time. So any investigations that are being started today should be mentioned today, so to forgo any unfortunate pish-posh by these same sites 6 months from now.


Watergate, wall to wall news 24/7


F&F ehhhh brush it under the rug. Now they have to report it. Now I am not implicating Obama in this but it does open the door to questions. Is Holder the fall guy?

[Furtherman]

Watergate, wall to wall news 24/7

You cannot compare the American Media News Cycle of the 70's to today.

[Crispy123]

YAHOO NEWS YAHOO NEWS YAHOO NEWS YAHOO NEWS YAHOO NEWS YAHOO NEWS YAHOO NEWS YAHOO NEWS YAHOO NEWS YAHOO NEWS YAHOO NEWS YAHOO NEWS YAHOO NEWS YAHOO NEWS YAHOO NEWS YAHOO NEWS YAHOO NEWS YAHOO NEWS YAHOO NEWS YAHOO NEWS YAHOO NEWS YAHOO NEWS YAHOO NEWS YAHOO NEWS YAHOO NEWS YAHOO NEWS YAHOO NEWS YAHOO NEWS YAHOO NEWS YAHOO NEWS YAHOO NEWS YAHOO NEWS YAHOO NEWS YAHOO NEWS YAHOO NEWS YAHOO NEWS YAHOO NEWS YAHOO NEWS YAHOO NEWS YAHOO NEWS YAHOO NEWS YAHOO NEWS YAHOO NEWS YAHOO NEWS YAHOO NEWS

FYI, that link was to yahoo search. now WF's editorializing, that is totally WFox news :wink:

also ALL of those links look like they reference the same one blog post from mrc.org

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Sorry gals. You may not that Keurig coffee maker or those 800 thread count sheets for your bridal shower.



http://www.barackobama.com/news/entry/the-obama-event-registry?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

[Crispy123]

Now Im sure the folks over at the no spin zone wouldn't spin a good old capitalist fundraiser in any way...



...but now if you are having an event like a wedding or bridal shower and want to get the president re-elected you can direct your friends and family to the re-elect President Obama registry page.

http://www.barackobama.com/news/entry/the-obama-event-registry?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Fuck that. If Im getting married, I want my wife to be to get coffee machines, cutlery, towels etc.


Men like 800 ct egyptian thread too.

[Bob Impact]

a good old capitalist fundraiser

What the fuck are you on about?

[StanUpshaw]

What the fuck are you on about?

Capitalists, you see, must love everything having to do with money. Capitalism means you are not allowed to judge anything money-related to be in poor taste.

[Crispy123]

What the fuck are you on about?

what don't you get?

[hanso]

End it with the fox news bullshit. This scandal was 1st reported by CBS news. Other outlets refused to report on it when it 1st broke.


Remember the US atty scandal? It was nonstop coverage for that and rightfully so.

Ironic that your federal gov't supplied drug cartels with assault rifles but allowed Agent Terry to die in the desert armed with a bean bag gun

But CBS is Lib, how could this happen?! How...

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Just to Clarify differences btwn Wide Receiver Bush era and F&F Obama admin

WIDE RECEIVER
1400 Weapons
Built case against Mexican cartels to find out who they were
Had Mexican govt involved, worked in conjunction with them
All weapons had RFID trackers and were constantly tracked
Over 1000 arrests made
When Bush admin found out the cartels were removing the RFIDs, The program was shut down in 2007


F&F
Over 2000 weapons
Wanted to push a gun control agenda and target gun shops
Mexican govt never involved in F&F
No tracking devices
No arrests made of Cartel members
F&F shut down after murders of 200 Mexicans and 2 US agents
DOJ Coverup possible and E.P.

[Dude!]

obama should just aim
a couple of drones
at Issa and the family of
Brian Terry

that would close things down
in the way obama likes best

[WRESTLINGFAN]

It wouldnt be the 1st time American citizens were killed by an Obama drone

[hanso]

Can you go back to sabre rattling over 6$ a Gal. for gas? I miss that talking point.

[StanUpshaw]

Can you go back to sabre rattling over 6$ a Gal. for gas? I miss that talking point.

It's hard for oil to stay high when the world is tumbling ass over tea kettle back into depression.

[hanso]

<param name="movie" value="http://embed.crooksandliars.com/v/MjQ3OTctNTg4MDQ?color=C93033" /><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="quality" value="high" /><param name="wmode" value="transparent" /><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always" /><embed src="http://embed.crooksandliars.com/v/MjQ3OTctNTg4MDQ?color=C93033" quality="high" wmode="transparent" width="440" height="366" allowfullscreen="true" name="clembedMjQ3OTctNTg4MDQ" align="middle" quality="high" allowScriptAccess="always" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" pluginspage="http://www.adobe.com/go/getflashplayer"></embed></object>

[Crispy123]

The country is safer with a President thats a democrat, especially President Obama:

Arizona Immigration Law: GOP Criticisms Disputed By Data Saying Crime, Border Crossings Have Dropped (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/26/arizona-immigration-law-border-crossings_n_1625956.html?utm_hp_ref=politics)

And, in spite of the crime allegations, DHS said that according to 2010 FBI reports, violent crimes in the Southwest border states dropped by an average of 40 percent in the last two decades. Since 2008, crime rates have fallen in each Arizona, California, New Mexico, and Texas.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Forget something else that dropped since 2008 ?

[brettmojo]

Forget something else that dropped since 2008 ?
What? Gun store inventories in red states?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

What? Gun store inventories in red states?

That too sold to Cartels via your federal gov't

[Crispy123]

What? Gun store inventories in red states?

and michelle bachmans tits.

http://richierexic.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/rsz_1michele-bachmann-bikini-21-e1308285280800.jpg?w=604

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Todd Bachmanns

[Crispy123]

Pres Obama and the dems wip the party of no into shape.

Student Loan Deal Reached, Senate Leaders Say (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/26/student-loan-deal_n_1628933.html)

[StanUpshaw]

Why do you think that's a good idea? Do you think there are any negative ramifications to keeping rates so low?

[Crispy123]

Why do you think that's a good idea? Do you think there are any negative ramifications to keeping rates so low?

Becuz the President has been working and congress has been stalling.

I think their are more negative ramifications to doubling interest rates on people with college debt.

are you saying that it would be better for students to get their tuition bills jacked up on a technicality?

[StanUpshaw]

Becuz the President has been working and congress has been stalling.

I think their are more negative ramifications to doubling interest rates on people with college debt.

are you saying that it would be better for students to get their tuition bills jacked up on a technicality?

It would have only applied to new loans. I can see you've given this a lot of thought.

[Crispy123]

It would have only applied to new loans. I can see you've given this a lot of thought.

you sure theres no student loan forgiveness or restructuring of defaulted loans in the bill, big boy?

[StanUpshaw]

http://i.imgur.com/bSuhC.jpg

[Crispy123]

whose that driving the tractor, got to be you moving that goal post right stanny?

and I love how you never answer my questions. its beautiful, that way you cant ever be wrong!!! :thumbup:

[StanUpshaw]

You were dead wrong. This is "I am rubber, you are glue" shtick is fucking pathetic.

[Crispy123]

You were dead wrong. This is "I am rubber, you are glue" shtick is fucking pathetic.

keep up the not answering questions streak buddy! I picture you like my 8 year old with your fingers in your ears going, la la la i cant hear you.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

To be fair Bush said the internets


http://news.yahoo.com/president-obamas-non-pander-miami-heats-153428254.html

[ozzie]

To be fair Bush said the internets


http://news.yahoo.com/president-obamas-non-pander-miami-heats-153428254.html

To be fair, "HEAT" is a fucking stupid name.


Ernie Banks was "a Cub". In fact, he was "Mr. Cub".

If I say that he, Ron Santo and Billy Williams... were "Cubs", it's natural.

I wouldn't add a bunch of useless words to say that they were "members of the Chicago Cubs". They're just CUBS dammit.


What the fuck is Lebron now? "a Miami Heat"?

If so, than what are Bosh and Wade?

[Jujubees2]

Hey Joe, who own the Chiefs?

Owns, owns, who owns the Chiefs?

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc36/john_richardson/slapshotgoaliedennis.jpg

[Syd]

Why do you think that's a good idea? Do you think there are any negative ramifications to keeping rates so low?

Raising interest rates is fine if they allow educational debt to be written off in a bankruptcy. With absolutely no risk involved, why shouldn't interest rates remain low?

[StanUpshaw]

Raising interest rates is fine if they allow educational debt to be written off in a bankruptcy. With absolutely no risk involved, why shouldn't interest rates remain low?

Yeah, the lenders make out pretty well...that alone should give one pause. But I don't think the question of risk is so cut and dried. There's almost trillion in student loan debt outstanding, growing by about 10% a year (Christ only knows how much that translates to in the derivatives market). I read that over half of the loans are in default or some state of deferment. Something's gotta give. If there's one thing that everyone should know about bubbles by now, it's that they eventually pop.



And then we need to get into the cause and effect of artificially stimulating demand. The main outcome is runaway tuition (it's a feedback loop: higher tuition=bigger loans=higher tuition=bigger loans...). Much like the third-party payer monstrosity in health care, anyone outside the system is fucked. Working your way through college is almost impossible.

Good schools can only admit so many students. What happens to that excess demand? It gets soaked up by the "for profit" diploma mills and online shysters.

We add hundreds of thousands of more job seekers to a market that already has a surplus of 2,000,000 bachelor's degrees. Not only are tens of thousands of dollars pissed away, so are four years of productive potential. You walk away with a mountain of debt and nothing to show for it except the same slip of paper all of your friends have, and a head full of inflated expectations.

And let's talk about that debt. Is it right to strap the yolk of debt slavery onto some idiot kid?

[Syd]

Preaching to the choir -- everyone is told they need college to succeed, causing blue collar jobs to go unwanted. Couple that with every time a state needs to shore up budget issues, they slash the fuck out of college aid and/or raise tuition.

College education is exactly why capitalism is wrong. The never-ending lust for profit combined with an altogether too willing government to interfere in the market combined with a healthy dose of propaganda and you have a student debt bubble just waiting to burst. Since it can't be disbursed (is that the word?) through bankruptcy, there's going to be a lot of people who spend the majority of their earnings simply paying into their debt.

[Jujubees2]

Supreme Court upholds health care law (http://nbcpolitics.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/06/28/12457822-supreme-court-upholds-health-care-law?lite)

[StanUpshaw]

fuck this place

[jennysmurf]

Supreme Court upholds health care law (http://nbcpolitics.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/06/28/12457822-supreme-court-upholds-health-care-law?lite)

Okay, guys help me out. I'm a nanny, and don't have insurance provided. It's extremely costly for me to get my own insurance, so I've been flying by the seat of my pants on that. Does this mean I have to get insurance? I've got friends on both sides of this, and I can't make heads nor tails of anything they're saying cause it's all yelling at this point.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Where will rich foreigners go for their care now?

[HBox]

Okay, guys help me out. I'm a nanny, and don't have insurance provided. It's extremely costly for me to get my own insurance, so I've been flying by the seat of my pants on that. Does this mean I have to get insurance? I've got friends on both sides of this, and I can't make heads nor tails of anything they're saying cause it's all yelling at this point.

If you make less than 133% of poverty level you do not have to buy insurance and are eligible for Medicaid. If you do make more than that and do not have access to insurance through your employer you do have to buy insurance but it comes with subsidies that are dependent on how much you make.

For example if you make just over 133% of the poverty line with subsidies and other savings you will pay $992 a year for insurance. For 150% the cost is $1323. Those are on average. You will be able to shop around for a policy that makes sense to you.

And to still not buy insurance for whatever reason the penalty in 2014 is $95.

Clearly this is the end of America.

[jennysmurf]

If you make less than 133% of poverty level you do not have to buy insurance and are eligible for Medicaid. If you do make more than that and do not have access to insurance through your employer you do have to buy insurance but it comes with subsidies that are dependent on how much you make.

For example if you make just over 133% of the poverty line with subsidies and other savings you will pay $992 a year for insurance. For 150% the cost is $1323. Those are on average. You will be able to shop around for a policy that makes sense to you.

And to still not buy insurance for whatever reason the penalty in 2014 is $95.

Clearly this is the end of America.

I am barely making it now. I don't know where I'm going to find the money to add another monthly bill. :sad:

[Furtherman]

The rightys are PISSED, but I'm more happy for the good this will do.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

So under Obama taxes will go up. Another broken promise

[StanUpshaw]

The rightys are PISSED, but I'm more happy for the good this will do.

The only good this will do is for the Lexus dealerships when all the insurance guys make their bonuses.

[A.J.]

The rightys are PISSED, but I'm more happy for the good this will do.

Yes: every government-run social program has been overwhelmingly good.

[Dude!]

it was sold on a big lie--
"it is not a tax"

and upheld on the truth--
"it is a tax"

the presidential campaign
will be waged on the big lie

[HBox]

Yes: every government-run social program has been overwhelmingly good.

If the current health care system was a government program it would fit in well with the worst government programs ever: absurdly expensive, doesn't help millions that it's supposed to, the rich get ridiculously good benefits they don't need at the expense of everyone else, crony capitalism, etc.

There is nowhere to go but up.

[A.J.]

There is nowhere to go but up.

Yes there is -- further into debt.

[danner1515]

People Who Say They're Moving To Canada Because Of ObamaCare:
http://www.buzzfeed.com/daves4/people-moving-to-canada-because-of-obamacare

[HBox]

Yes there is -- further into debt.

Yeah, if this bill added to the deficit. And yet it does the opposite.

[HBox]

People Who Say They're Moving To Canada Because Of ObamaCare:
http://www.buzzfeed.com/daves4/people-moving-to-canada-because-of-obamacare

That's almost as hilarious as the "Keep government out of my Medicare!" crowd!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Are they going to join all the celebs who said that after 43 won reelection in 2004?

The geezers do have a point. They were forced to pay into a system over 40 years of their lives and now that same gubmint is going to axe it by half a trillion

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Yes there is -- further into debt.

But Obama said that it wont add one penny

[WRESTLINGFAN]

http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/483959_10150904785952337_872774185_n.jpg

[A.J.]

But Obama said that it wont add one penny

Yes, he meant millions of dollars.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I guess the progressives look to Roberts as their BFF.

[Dude!]

Yes, he meant millions of dollars.

um, trillions

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Romney raises 1mm post ruling


http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/235399-romney-raises-1-million-off-of-court-ruling

[HBox]

Yeah, just keep on talking about how it is going to add to the debt even though it won't.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Yeah, just keep on talking about how it is going to add to the debt even though it won't.

There are no troops in Afghanistan

[Dude!]

There are no troops in Afghanistan

gitmo is closed

[HBox]

There are no troops in Afghanistan

Wrestlingfan posting a completely unrelated non-sequitur when confronted with facts? Never seen that before. At least you aren't getting stale or anything.

BTW, I predict the reply to this will be exclusively about the Fast and Furious scandal. Or maybe immigration.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Wrestlingfan posting a completely unrelated non-sequitur when confronted with facts? Never seen that before. At least you aren't getting stale or anything.

BTW, I predict the reply to this will be exclusively about the Fast and Furious scandal. Or maybe immigration.

You believe it will not add anything to the debt/deficit?

I admire your naivety


You predicted wrong

[Crispy123]

If you make less than 133% of poverty level you do not have to buy insurance and are eligible for Medicaid. If you do make more than that and do not have access to insurance through your employer you do have to buy insurance but it comes with subsidies that are dependent on how much you make.

For example if you make just over 133% of the poverty line with subsidies and other savings you will pay $992 a year for insurance. For 150% the cost is $1323. Those are on average. You will be able to shop around for a policy that makes sense to you.

And to still not buy insurance for whatever reason the penalty in 2014 is $95.

Clearly this is the end of America.

I disagree. I think America will continue and I even think our world ranking in health care will begin to rise in the future.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Obama and the supporters of this said it wasn't a tax. SCOTUS says it is.

How many more of his handlers will apply for waivers/tax exemptions

[HBox]

Actually I'm done here. I don't care anymore how upset some of you are about this. I hope you go to sleep scared at night. I hope you truly believe this is the beginning of the end for us. I hope this makes you angry. And I hope this feeling last you for the next 30 years.

I've lived in this country with a serious illness my entire life. 30 years. And in that whole time I have people feeling sorry for me, saying they care, claiming they care. And for 30 years nothing was done to help what is a terrible, terrible financial situation for people with chronic illnesses in this country. Nothing at all. Any attempt made was met with fierce, angry resistance. I'm told people care and yet nothing is done and any attempt to help is met with fury.

It's bullshit. The majority of this country doesn't care and only say they do to make themselves feel better. And I continued, my whole life to lie in bed at night fearful of losing my insurance and have no idea what I am supposed to do if that happens. I'm in a situation where if I don't have my drugs I WILL DIE, and quickly, and painfully. And if I had no insurance I could not afford those drugs out of pocket even if I spent every cent I earned on them. Not to mention doctor's visits and tests.

I don't have to worry about that anymore. I'm gonna sleep easy at night. And I'm thrilled for that. And to all of you who clung to any reason not to do this every time health care reform came up? Go fuck yourselves. There is nothing you can do now. And I hope whatever rage you feel right now consumes and tortures you for as long as it can. It will never match what I have been through. At the end of the day your life isn't hanging in the balance. I'm at the point where I care as little for you as you do for me. But at least I can say that ultimately, I won and you lost.

[Crispy123]

Actually I'm done here. I don't care anymore how upset some of you are about this. I hope you go to sleep scared at night. I hope you truly believe this is the beginning of the end for us. I hope this makes you angry. And I hope this feeling last you for the next 30 years.

I've lived in this country with a serious illness my entire life. 30 years. And in that whole time I have people feeling sorry for me, saying they care, claiming they care. And for 30 years nothing was done to help what is a terrible, terrible financial situation for people with chronic illnesses in this country. Nothing at all. Any attempt made was met with fierce, angry resistance. I'm told people care and yet nothing is done and any attempt to help is met with fury.

It's bullshit. The majority of this country doesn't care and only say they do to make themselves feel better. And I continued, my whole life to lie in bed at night fearful of losing my insurance and have no idea what I am supposed to do if that happens. I'm in a situation where if I don't have my drugs I WILL DIE, and quickly, and painfully. And if I had no insurance I could not afford those drugs out of pocket even if I spent every cent I earned on them. Not to mention doctor's visits and tests.

I don't have to worry about that anymore. I'm gonna sleep easy at night. And I'm thrilled for that. And to all of you who clung to any reason not to do this every time health care reform came up? Go fuck yourselves. There is nothing you can do now. And I hope whatever rage you feel right now consumes and tortures you for as long as it can. It will never match what I have been through. At the end of the day your life isn't hanging in the balance. I'm at the point where I care as little for you as you do for me. But at least I can say that ultimately, I won and you lost.

Hey its good news for those of us not glued to the foxnews teet.

I didnt know youve been living with something like that, but some of us do care. Most people agreed with everything in the ACA but let the teabaggers scaremonger them out of supporting it.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

What SCOTUS Ruled


they said that despite the attempts of Obama to present to us saying this isnt a tax when it fact it is.


Obama does what he does best, lie to the electorate.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Hey its good news for those of us not glued to the foxnews teet.

I didnt know youve been living with something like that, but some of us do care. Most people agreed with everything in the ACA but let the teabaggers scaremonger them out of supporting it.

If he had been honest and called it a tax this would have been shitcanned before going to a vote in both houses.

[keithy_19]

Actually I'm done here. I don't care anymore how upset some of you are about this. I hope you go to sleep scared at night. I hope you truly believe this is the beginning of the end for us. I hope this makes you angry. And I hope this feeling last you for the next 30 years.

I've lived in this country with a serious illness my entire life. 30 years. And in that whole time I have people feeling sorry for me, saying they care, claiming they care. And for 30 years nothing was done to help what is a terrible, terrible financial situation for people with chronic illnesses in this country. Nothing at all. Any attempt made was met with fierce, angry resistance. I'm told people care and yet nothing is done and any attempt to help is met with fury.

It's bullshit. The majority of this country doesn't care and only say they do to make themselves feel better. And I continued, my whole life to lie in bed at night fearful of losing my insurance and have no idea what I am supposed to do if that happens. I'm in a situation where if I don't have my drugs I WILL DIE, and quickly, and painfully. And if I had no insurance I could not afford those drugs out of pocket even if I spent every cent I earned on them. Not to mention doctor's visits and tests.

I don't have to worry about that anymore. I'm gonna sleep easy at night. And I'm thrilled for that. And to all of you who clung to any reason not to do this every time health care reform came up? Go fuck yourselves. There is nothing you can do now. And I hope whatever rage you feel right now consumes and tortures you for as long as it can. It will never match what I have been through. At the end of the day your life isn't hanging in the balance. I'm at the point where I care as little for you as you do for me. But at least I can say that ultimately, I won and you lost.

I understand your plight. I've been fortunate to be able to rely on the generosity of the pharmaceutical company my drug is made by, and generosity of organizations that have lead me to be able to receive free care while I'm without insurance.

[Crispy123]

oooooh oooh oooh whose the guest on the Glenn Hannity O'Limbaugh show tonght?

[Furtherman]

Actually I'm done here. I don't care anymore how upset some of you are about this. I hope you go to sleep scared at night. I hope you truly believe this is the beginning of the end for us. I hope this makes you angry. And I hope this feeling last you for the next 30 years.

I've lived in this country with a serious illness my entire life. 30 years. And in that whole time I have people feeling sorry for me, saying they care, claiming they care. And for 30 years nothing was done to help what is a terrible, terrible financial situation for people with chronic illnesses in this country. Nothing at all. Any attempt made was met with fierce, angry resistance. I'm told people care and yet nothing is done and any attempt to help is met with fury.

It's bullshit. The majority of this country doesn't care and only say they do to make themselves feel better. And I continued, my whole life to lie in bed at night fearful of losing my insurance and have no idea what I am supposed to do if that happens. I'm in a situation where if I don't have my drugs I WILL DIE, and quickly, and painfully. And if I had no insurance I could not afford those drugs out of pocket even if I spent every cent I earned on them. Not to mention doctor's visits and tests.

I don't have to worry about that anymore. I'm gonna sleep easy at night. And I'm thrilled for that. And to all of you who clung to any reason not to do this every time health care reform came up? Go fuck yourselves. There is nothing you can do now. And I hope whatever rage you feel right now consumes and tortures you for as long as it can. It will never match what I have been through. At the end of the day your life isn't hanging in the balance. I'm at the point where I care as little for you as you do for me. But at least I can say that ultimately, I won and you lost.

*slow clap*

[HBox]

I understand your plight. I've been fortunate to be able to rely on the generosity of the pharmaceutical company my drug is made by, and generosity of organizations that have lead me to be able to receive free care while I'm without insurance.

Yeah, so have I. I feel lucky to have gotten everything I've needed medically in my life. Unfortunately I have known who haven't been so fortunate. We've been trying to plug a hole in the hull of a ship with thousands of band aids for so long now and it's an impossible task. Too many people still go through. This is a good start at trying to stop that.

[Furtherman]

oooooh oooh oooh whose the guest on the Glenn Hannity O'Limbaugh show tonght?

O'Reilly said it would be shot down, and if not, he would apologize for being an idiot.

[keithy_19]

Yeah, so have I. I feel lucky to have gotten everything I've needed medically in my life. Unfortunately I have known who haven't been so fortunate. We've been trying to plug a hole in the hull of a ship with thousands of band aids for so long now and it's an impossible task. Too many people still go through. This is a good start at trying to stop that.

I agree that there is a huge problem with healtch care in the US but I don't think this was the right way or the right time to push sweeping legislation. Debt and all that.

With that being said, I'm going to exit this thread because I don't have much to add and I don't want to try to sound brighter than I am.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Healthcare/Hospital stocks soar while rest of market sinks.

Thank you federal gov't for another 2500 page bill that fixes nothing and adds more clutter and bureaucracy to an already flawed system

[Crispy123]

yes, thanks federal government.