mass shooting 100 day challenge

[foodcourtdruide]

The ones with class may have stopped with Myspace.

It is the most unscientific political point made in the history of the internet.

[A.J.]

You've got to be fucking kidding me.

Nancy Lanza, remembered as happy, outgoing will have Newtown barstool dedicated in her honor (http://www.nhregister.com/articles/2012/12/17/news/doc50cf1ff666706485145749.txt?viewmode=fullstory)

[WRESTLINGFAN]

WF, do you live in a box? You can find sick bastards tweeting about literally anything. Using a few random posts on twitter as evidence that "people who are against guns want responsible gun owners shot" is completely retarded and a waste of time. Seriously man, you are just being an obstructionist.

Not at all. Why are you making these crazy assumptions,



Im not trying to obstruct anything, Youre trying to make these judgements/conclusions when they dont exist.


Maybe some of these tweets are just attention whores, but some might actually want legal gun owners massacred

[foodcourtdruide]

Not at all. Why are you making these crazy assumptions,



Im not trying to obstruct anything, Youre trying to make these judgements/conclusions when they dont exist.


Maybe some of these tweets are just attention whores, but some might actually want legal gun owners massacred

WHO CARES?!

[Snoogans]

i put this on my facebook, but i see people are having the same arguments on here, so ill put it here too:

I just have to address something for my own head. Ill probably actually make a video about this cause i have some things i need to have people here but ill do it here in a smaller way.

STOP YELLING TO BAN EVERYTHING THAT SOMEONE USES TO DO HARM OR CAUSES HARM. Everytime something bad happens, people go nuts about ban this ban that. I understand, and agree, that we could have tighter controls, that people dont need to own 11 guns and other things we could fix. But we cant just go banning everything or eventually, we wont have anything left.

Pitbulls occasionally kill or maul people. But we know that you dont just ban pit bulls, cause usually its a bad owner or whatever reason. People drive drunk and kill people, we dont just run to ban alcohol. When we start to give away our civil liberties that freely, it doesnt end, it just goes on and on until someone fuckin bans soda because some people get fat drinking too much of it.

Dont make emotional decisions. Everyone knows you have to rationally think about things before you make decisions, but when something bad happens, we just emotionally yell ban it ban it. We dont stop to think what we are taking away from ourselves. Then we turn and complain that the government is too big and has too much power. WELL WHO THE HELL DO YOU THINK GAVE THEM ALL THAT POWER? WE DID. SO WE WOULD FEEL "safe" or have "security". STOP.

And for anyone tryin to say banning guns will keep them off the streets, HA. Ask yourself how that worked with Heroin and Meth and other drugs. Take a deep breath, people, and just think things through before you all start going crazy

[A.J.]

I was in a discussion last night and said something similar. The problem isn't the supply of guns, it's the demand. You can get ANYTHING, ANYWHERE if you look for it. Guns, drugs, porn, sex: someone is always selling something; legally or not.

And to classify something as an "assault weapon" is misleading. Rifles and guns are assault weapons. You know what else are assault weapons? Knives and baseball bats. So is fertilizer when you the right elements to it.

The laws in CT worked to prevent this kid from buying his own guns when he tried to do so. Nobody is mentioning that. The problem is that his idiot mother thought it was a good idea to let her troubled son be around firearms.

[Snoogans]

I was in a discussion last night and said something similar. The problem isn't the supply of guns, it's the demand. You can get ANYTHING, ANYWHERE if you look for it. Guns, drugs, porn, sex: someone is always selling something; legally or not.

And to classify something as an "assault weapon" is misleading. Rifles and guns are assault weapons. You know what else are assault weapons? Knives and baseball bats. So is fertilizer when you the right elements to it.

The laws in CT worked to prevent this kid from buying his own guns when he tried to do so. Nobody is mentioning that. The problem is that his idiot mother thought it was a good idea to let her troubled son be around firearms.

yea no one mentions what a bad idea it was to teach someone with mental illnesses to use guns.

Also, he went there and stole them to do this. Ive read people say he did this with legal guns. No, once he stole them from his mom, they werent legal anymore. Thats generally how illegal guns get to criminals anyway, they get stolen

[newport king]

i saw some politician on cnn before advocating arming teachers. The best part is, he said had he been a principal there and allowed to carry those kids would still be alive. and the shooter would be dead. not by suicide...wow.what a great american hero.

[Snoogans]

i saw some politician on cnn before advocating arming teachers. The best part is, he said had he been a principal there and allowed to carry those kids would still be alive. and the shooter would be dead. not by suicide...wow.what a great american hero.

yea awesome

Remember that dude who shot his former boss outside the empire state building? He shot one guy, the cops opened up on him and accidentally hit and killed 8 other people.

And those are fuckin people who are trained (albeit it not always very well) to use those weapons

[newport king]

the mother sounds crazy too

[epo]

i saw some politician on cnn before advocating arming teachers. The best part is, he said had he been a principal there and allowed to carry those kids would still be alive. and the shooter would be dead. not by suicide...wow.what a great american hero.

People who say that kind of shit are a big part of the problem in our society.

See also: God was pissed he wasn't in the classroom people; Mike Huckabee.

[Snoogans]

People who say that kind of shit are a big part of the problem in our society.

See also: God was pissed he wasn't in the classroom people; Mike Huckabee.


i love that shit. you think god gets pissed at us for that shit. He gave us free will and all we do is blame him when people use it, or blame him when bad shit happens, then make excuses for why its good really.

[A.J.]

People who say that kind of shit are a big part of the problem in our society.

See also: God was pissed he wasn't in the classroom people; Mike Huckabee.

i love that shit. you think god gets pissed at us for that shit. He gave us free will and all we do is blame him when people use it, or blame him when bad shit happens, then make excuses for why its good really.

God was probably busy helping someone make a game winning catch or win an award.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Good one Huckabee


The Lords prayer would have prevented this.


:wallbash:

[Snoogans]

God was probably busy helping someone make a game winning catch or win an award.

awesome. or spending all the money we give him

[WRESTLINGFAN]

awesome. or spending all the money we give him

Or planning the next natural disaster because of gays being allowed to marry.

[Furtherman]

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[Dude!]

^ obama's remarks the best (by far)

clinton's, the worst--he seemed to
lack true sincerity with his
canned lip-biting

[Bob Impact]

i saw some politician on cnn before advocating arming teachers. The best part is, he said had he been a principal there and allowed to carry those kids would still be alive. and the shooter would be dead. not by suicide...wow.what a great american hero.

We drove one teacher to quit just by repeating her name, I don't think arming her would have been a good idea.

A lot of these people quote a stat that "90% of spree killers will commit suicide immediately after encountering resistance." which is true when that resistance is police, which the study that IDs that stat is about. Essentially the study was used to further the idea of sending in 2 - 3 man police squads immediately for these specific types of murders instead of composing SWAT raids which can take up to 30 minutes. The idea that armed civilians factor into that at all is incorrect.

Also, several other studies disagree with that assessment, for example: "Offender Survival Rate: Two-thirds of the adult mass murderers committed suicide or were killed by police. Only one out of seven adolescent mass murderers committed suicide or were killed by the police. "

http://www.forensis.org/PDF/published/2004_AComparativeAna.pdf

[Jujubees2]

i saw some politician on cnn before advocating arming teachers. The best part is, he said had he been a principal there and allowed to carry those kids would still be alive. and the shooter would be dead. not by suicide...wow.what a great american hero.

Someplace in Texas has been letting teachers carry since 2008

Texas School District Will Let Teachers Carry Guns (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,404721,00.html#ixzz2FMHYcCzq)

[deliciousV]

just some more things to think about

http://www.newsmax.com/newswidget/Lott-guns-Connecticut-shooting/2012/12/15/id/467903?promo_code=F470-1

[brettmojo]

just some more things to think about

http://www.newsmax.com/newswidget/Lott-guns-Connecticut-shooting/2012/12/15/id/467903?promo_code=F470-1

With this even being considered it's a sign that civilization is failing.

[deliciousV]

With this even being considered it's a sign that civilization is failing.

pretty grandiose thinking, the idea that any opinion other than yours is the end of the world. Have you ever heard of the Pearl River Ms. High School shootings?

[brettmojo]

pretty grandiose thinking, the idea that any opinion other than yours is the end of the world. Have you ever heard of the Pearl River Ms. High School shootings?

No. Because my republican voting friends on Facebook who think more guns are the answer don't know how to share or like things.

[brettmojo]

Lets fight guns with guns. Lets put guns in hospitals and strap them to the nurses in the newborn care wards... Lets strap some guns on garbage men so they can patrol the streets and neighborhoods of America while collecting our trash. Let's strap some guns on the greeters at Walmart to keep or great beacon of capitalism safe.

Since everyone being armed is the answer to true peace on Earth I wonder why everyone is so pissed at North Korea and Iran for just wanting to do the same thing to protect themselves.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

How about the clergy and religious leaders?

Nuns with guns has a nice ring to it

[brettmojo]

How about the clergy and religious leaders?

Nuns with guns has a nice ring to it

We'll have our fry cooks and drive-thru employees at McDonalds strapped so they can be safe slinging our fast food. Don't even think of robbing KFC or instead of a drumstick in your mouth you'll get a cap in your ass.

[deliciousV]

Lets fight guns with guns. Lets put guns in hospitals and strap them to the nurses in the newborn care wards... Lets strap some guns on garbage men so they can patrol the streets and neighborhoods of America while collecting our trash. Let's strap some guns on the greeters at Walmart to keep or great beacon of capitalism safe.

Since everyone being armed is the answer to true peace on Earth I wonder why everyone is so pissed at North Korea and Iran for just wanting to do the same thing to protect themselves.

nobody is saying that, well maybe they are, but that wasn't the point of the article I linked. The point was that people who have already gone thru the training and the process of getting a license to conceal and carry should be able to carry them most everywhere, they aren't the problem and could be the solution at times. These mass shooters are by and large pussies and they are most often targeting places where law abiding people are guaranteed to be unarmed.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

We'll have our fry cooks and drive-thru employees at McDonalds strapped so they can be safe slinging our fast food. Don't even think of robbing KFC or instead of a drumstick in your mouth you'll get a cap in your ass.



In some of the outer boros of NYC , weapons may be needed if you work at a White Castle

[Snoogans]

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[brettmojo]

nobody is saying that, well maybe they are, but that wasn't the point of the article I linked. The point was that people who have already gone thru the training and the process of getting a license to conceal and carry should be able to carry them most everywhere, they aren't the problem and could be the solution at times. These mass shooters are by and large pussies and they are most often targeting places where law abiding people are guaranteed to be unarmed.

The guns he used were legally owned guns that his mother had a license to own. He murdered her, took them and murdered little children with them.

At least that's my understanding. I don't know I really can't stand to watch the news since Saturday.

So in this case, the licensed and trained person was the problem... Because she had a nut son and she didn't take any precautions to prevent her nut son from taking them. Her training apparently didn't cover the fact that you shouldn't let mentally disturbed folks handle your guns. So no, I don't think inadequate gun laws being followed are enough to let those people off the hook. Especially when they go out looking for trouble like that psycho in Florida who trolled and stalked that young black kid and forced a confrontation in which he ended up shooting him to death.

[deliciousV]

The guns he used were legally owned guns that his mother had a license to own. He murdered her, took them and murdered little children with them.

At least that's my understanding. I don't know I really can't stand to watch the news since Saturday.

So in this case, the licensed and trained person was the problem... Because she had a nut son and she didn't take any precautions to prevent her nut son from taking them. Her training apparently didn't cover the fact that you shouldn't let mentally disturbed folks handle your guns. So no, I don't think inadequate gun laws being followed are enough to let those people off the hook. Especially when they go out looking for trouble like that psycho in Florida who trolled and stalked that young black kid and forced a confrontation in which he ended up shooting him to death.

1. they stopped being legal when he stole them, she obviouslly should have locked them up, but like a whole lot of the weapons used in this country for crimes, these were stolen.
2. she had legally owned weapons, unless I've missed something she had not gone thru the training and vetting for a conceal carry license.
3. Don't pretend to know what happened in that Florida debacle until all the facts are out, it only proves your knee jerk response to anything involving guns.

and what's your solution? Do you really think everybody's guns can be taken? Will crooks and lawfull people all give them up?

[spoon]

sigh

so wild wild west mentality, that's the solution now?

sorry the answer isn't ban all guns and it SURE AS HELL isn't arming everyone as if this thing happens daily or even yearly...especially in places like this. there was a reason why guns were banned from city limits and establishments back a few decades (centuries really), but let's just sweep that aside and act like this would have been stopped if the teachers were all john wayne up in that elementary school. sorry, wackos can strike at the innocent bc there is only so much you can do. the real answer is there is none. shit like this, like it or not will continue and has been around forever. people are rightfully outraged and want to limit it as much as they can. having every idiot packing, and most people are, is NOT the answer.

[brettmojo]

1. they stopped being legal when he stole them,

LOLOLOLOLOOOOOLLLLLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
she obviouslly should have locked them up, but like a whole lot of the weapons used in this country for crimes, these were stolen.
2. she had legally owned weapons, unless I've missed something she had not gone thru the training and vetting for a conceal carry license.
3. Don't pretend to know what happened in that Florida debacle until all the facts are out, it only proves your knee jerk response to anything involving guns.

and what's your solution? Do you really think everybody's guns can be taken? Will crooks and lawfull people all give them up?
Australia

The tightening of Australia's gun laws was prompted by the worst mass murder in Australian history. On April 28, 1996, a gunman opened fire on tourists in Port Arthur, Tasmania, killing 35 people and wounding 23 more. Just twelve days later, Australia's government responded by announcing a bipartisan deal along with state and local governments to enact gun control measures, according to Slate.

A massive buyback program yielded more than 600,000 semi-automatic shotguns and rifles, roughly one-fifth of the firearms in Australia. The laws also outlawed private sales, required that guns be individually registered to their owners and mandated that buyers present a "genuine reason" for purchasing the guns.

According to research published by Australian Labor Member of Parliament Andrew Leigh in 2010, the buyback program reduced firearm suicides by 74 percent and gun-related homicides by 59 percent, said The Sydney Morning Herald.

Former Australian Prime Minister John Howard, who led the government when the tighter gun laws were passed in 1996, wrote in the Melbourne daily The Age shortly after the mass shooting in Aurora, Colo.

He said, "Australia is a safer country as a result of what was done in 1996. It will be the continuing responsibility of current and future federal and state governments to ensure the effectiveness of those anti-gun laws is never weakened. The US is a country for which I have much affection. There are many American traits which we Australians could well emulate to our great benefit. But when it comes to guns we have been right to take a radically different path."

They haven't had a mass shooting since.

http://forums.n4g.com/download.axd?file=0;1080594&where=msg

Gun deaths per year as of last year. That's horrid. HORRID.

It's harder to build an addition on your house than it is to buy a gun in this country. No one is gonna' murder a classroom full of children with a enclosed screen porch or a solarium.

[spoon]

so close to being number 1 in SOMETHING

too bad it's this

[brettmojo]

so close to being number 1 in SOMETHING

too bad it's this

At least we're beating Mexico... IN GUN DEATHS.

[spoon]

At least we're beating Mexico... IN GUN DEATHS.

we seem to be stuck in the second tier of suck with the Phillipines, but MAN that top tier is a gun toting free shooting mess! the top three's numbers are INSANE!

the third tier is still crazy when you figure in the size and populations of most in that group. mexico is the only larger sized/populated country in that mess, and WAY safer than the states in this regard too which is funny shit since everyone worries about traveling there bc of, you guessed it, the threat of violence! they have a much better chance of violence in their stomachs like I had the last two times I went to Cabo!

[keithy_19]

LOLOLOLOLOOOOOLLLLLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



They haven't had a mass shooting since.

http://forums.n4g.com/download.axd?file=0;1080594&where=msg

Gun deaths per year as of last year. That's horrid. HORRID.

It's harder to build an addition on your house than it is to buy a gun in this country. No one is gonna' murder a classroom full of children with a enclosed screen porch or a solarium.

I don't get why the "lol" at his point. He's correct. The weapons did not belong to him and when he stole them they became illegal guns. Should they have been better taken care of? Yes. I do think that.

As for the gun deaths per year, yes. It is horrid. But how many of these deaths are being attributed to gang affiliation? Drug sales? Illegal gun use?

As for me, I don't feel that a person needs an assault weapon. No automatic or semi-automatic. But there's a lot more to this than just guns.

[Judge Smails]

It's harder to build an addition on your house than it is to buy a gun in this country. No one is gonna' murder a classroom full of children with a enclosed screen porch or a solarium.

I don't know about a whole classroom full, but if I built a screen porch or a solarium I'm sure the ensuing collapse would take out at least one or two and maybe maim a handful of others.

[spoon]

i would have to think the laughs are bc it's a trite point at best

not jumping on del v either, but no shit they were illegal when stolen...the point is they are there and all too easily/readily available in this fucking country to the masses and idiots like this kid's mother, much less her fucking warped kid. it simply shouldn't be so easy to get a gun, much less multiple arms for a fucking grade school employee. one might argue this is why they do need one, but to me that's INSANE reasoning. the lady couldn't/didn't defend herself from shit despite the armory, in fact it was used against her and others as is all too often the case. I'm not for some all out ban or anything like that, but it needs to be harder to get not bc of government, but because of need, mental health and understood how they will be stored/handled.

[spoon]

I don't know about a whole classroom full, but if I built a screen porch or a solarium I'm sure the ensuing collapse would take out at least one or two and maybe maim a handful of others.

please make that WF's shitty porch with Dude over for their gay tea party

[hanso]

Pat Robinson is on the clock to say something very dumb about this.

[A.J.]

just some more things to think about

http://www.newsmax.com/newswidget/Lott-guns-Connecticut-shooting/2012/12/15/id/467903?promo_code=F470-1

It's been proposed before.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/CLjNJI54GMM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/GzFWRPiNXOI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[WRESTLINGFAN]

please make that WF's shitty porch with Dude over for their gay tea party

What's with all the gay talk? Too much Dickey?

[spoon]

What's with all the gay talk? Too much Dickey?

boooo

[Bob Impact]

Lets fight guns with guns. Lets put guns in hospitals and strap them to the nurses in the newborn care wards... Lets strap some guns on garbage men so they can patrol the streets and neighborhoods of America while collecting our trash. Let's strap some guns on the greeters at Walmart to keep or great beacon of capitalism safe.

Since everyone being armed is the answer to true peace on Earth I wonder why everyone is so pissed at North Korea and Iran for just wanting to do the same thing to protect themselves.

Can I strap a tiny little gun on top of my regular sized gun?

i would have to think the laughs are bc it's a trite point at best
Even if that's true it's not really all that trite of a point given what it implies. Saying they're "legal guns" implies that the existing regulations failed in a way they didn't. Sure, the truth can still get spun as either anti gun control ("someone who did not go through the required background checks stole guns") or pro gun control ("someone who DID go through the checks did not secure their guns properly, therefore the checks are flawed and/or don't matter because guns are the real source are the problem") but the falsehood is in the implication that someone who was a licensed, legal gun owner did this.

I'm not arguing that there aren't plenty of examples of licensed, legal gun owners who have done things like this at all (The Batman shooter and the Sikh temple shooter both legally owned their guns for example) just that it's not a trite point.

[deliciousV]

sigh

so wild wild west mentality, that's the solution now?

sorry the answer isn't ban all guns and it SURE AS HELL isn't arming everyone as if this thing happens daily or even yearly...especially in places like this. there was a reason why guns were banned from city limits and establishments back a few decades (centuries really), but let's just sweep that aside and act like this would have been stopped if the teachers were all john wayne up in that elementary school. sorry, wackos can strike at the innocent bc there is only so much you can do. the real answer is there is none. shit like this, like it or not will continue and has been around forever. people are rightfully outraged and want to limit it as much as they can. having every idiot packing, and most people are, is NOT the answer.

I neither said, or linked anything that espoused the idea of arming everyone. I simply linked an article that demonstrated a correlation between mass shootings and no gun zones. I don't believe that teachers should be armed, but I do believe that a teacher who is already a conceal carry license holder, who has been thru the training and backgroud checks that that involves, should be able to carry their gun. These fucks seem to almost always attack places where they know nobody will be armed, and because of that they get to do a lot of damage before the police show up.
I honestly can't see how people don't recognize that these no gun zones actually disprove the ideas behind gun control, in them law abiding citizens are unarmed and criminals and animals are able to take control.
Again, before the misrepresenting begins, I am not for arming more people, hell, I'm not even a gun nut, I own 1 shotgun and that's it, I'm just following the logic as I see it, I'm not picking a fight, just giving an opinion, I'm not in charge of a damn thing, so I ain't ruining the world. The way I see it we will never get rid of guns, there are too many that have been passed along or sold by one person to the next without records. It makes no sense that a guy who owns and carries his gun legally should find himself defenseless and die in a dumb movie, or at work as a teacher, just because he follows the rules and locks his gun in the car.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/man-attempts-to-open-fire-on-crowd-at-movie-theater-armed-off-duty-sheriffs-deputy-drops-him-with-one-bullet/

[booster11373]

People want more mental health screening OK lets raise weapons permits fees to offset the costs

FUCK YOU IM NOT PAYING ANY MORE TAXES

Lets arm teachers and school administrators BUT they can pay for it themselves because FUCK YOU IM NOT PAYING ANYMORE TAXES AND THEY BETTER NOT WANT ANYMORE MONEY

Lets start mandatory public service for our youth. military, peace corp, forestry service etc. BUT FUCK BIG GOVERNMENT AND I WONT PAY ANY TAXES TO SUPPORT IT

The clock is ticking and nothing will be done

[spankyfrank]

I think it's time we created super heroes. I'm ready for gamma radiation.

Spanky SMASH!

[deliciousV]

I think it's time we created super heroes. I'm ready for gamma radiation.

Spanky SMASH!

my son got a nasty looking spider bite last week, so the insects are doing their part.

[spankyfrank]

I think we can turn someone here into a super soldier. I'm thinking spoon.

[deliciousV]

I think we can turn someone here into a super soldier. I'm thinking spoon.

he'd spend all his time fighting his true nemesis, WF.

[spankyfrank]

Well for every action...there is an equal and opposite reaction.

[Jujubees2]

nobody is saying that, well maybe they are, but that wasn't the point of the article I linked. The point was that people who have already gone thru the training and the process of getting a license to conceal and carry should be able to carry them most everywhere, they aren't the problem and could be the solution at times. These mass shooters are by and large pussies and they are most often targeting places where law abiding people are guaranteed to be unarmed.

So what happens when they get into a shoot out with the "bad" guy and the police show up? The police won't know who's who and that would create a whole new level of confusion.

And I don't know if a mass shooter is going to care whether or not other people are armed when they start opening fire. Most kill themselves anyway.

[Dell]

So what happens when they get into a shoot out with the "bad" guy and the police show up? The police won't know who's who and that would create a whole new level of confusion.

And I don't know if a mass shooter is going to care whether or not other people are armed when they start opening fire. Most kill themselves anyway.

Fez?

[Jujubees2]

So what happens when they get into a shoot out with the "bad" guy and the police show up? The police won't know who's who and that would create a whole new level of confusion.

And I don't know if a mass shooter is going to care whether or not other people are armed when they start opening fire. Most kill themselves anyway.

Fez?

No, I'm gay.

[spoon]

So what happens when they get into a shoot out with the "bad" guy and the police show up? The police won't know who's who and that would create a whole new level of confusion.

And I don't know if a mass shooter is going to care whether or not other people are armed when they start opening fire. Most kill themselves anyway.

first to del v, it was in response to the article more than you

second, the very concept of arming no gun zones is stupid, as then one can argue they'd just pick the spot that is easier to get to someone/some people...as is the very case here and with most cases. having GRADE SCHOOL teachers that go through the process legally...packing heat is crazy and stupid. how often do you think grade schools are shooting crime scenes? it's not linked to the school really, but the teacher/mother and her fucking idiot son.

people well trained would have issues with a tactical take down in a damn grade school, now we're going to expect K-5 teachers and lunch ladies packing to set the record straight and save everyone?! come on. this kid would have done just as much damage if not more if he went down in some blaze of angry glory versus some fat schlub 3rd grade teacher.

[jennysmurf]

No, I'm gay.

:laugh:

[spoon]

Can I strap a tiny little gun on top of my regular sized gun?


Even if that's true it's not really all that trite of a point given what it implies. Saying they're "legal guns" implies that the existing regulations failed in a way they didn't. Sure, the truth can still get spun as either anti gun control ("someone who did not go through the required background checks stole guns") or pro gun control ("someone who DID go through the checks did not secure their guns properly, therefore the checks are flawed and/or don't matter because guns are the real source are the problem") but the falsehood is in the implication that someone who was a licensed, legal gun owner did this.

I'm not arguing that there aren't plenty of examples of licensed, legal gun owners who have done things like this at all (The Batman shooter and the Sikh temple shooter both legally owned their guns for example) just that it's not a trite point.

not the system bob, our overall culture that guns aren't at least a part of the problem in how readily available they are to complete idiots and families like these. legal, illegal, either or it doesn't matter, we are just way in over our head with weapons in our society and our quickness to anger and aggression. nobody implied it was a licensed gun owner who did this, but it was done through them. as you said it's been done by plenty of legal gun owners too, bc it happens both ways. it's a case that we are just way too vested in guns, power and aggression when wronged versus another way.

the point is trite bc it is clear manipulation of the details of this case to make it look like all was fine with the system and it was JUST a nutcase here. spin have you, in which the mental health of the mother is clearly in question too, she didn't give two shits to protect the weapons she had to protect her from? and now we find out she basically ignored countless issues with her son and just left the weapons, registered or not, open to his access.

to me it's obviously a case of too many guns with too little control bc people can't be trusted overall in our current society. that doesn't mean full out revoking of guns, but better control, screening and maintenance of said weapons keeping them from disturbed idiots who can't control their angry urges and ending their lives in a fury of gunfire. I'm not pro-gun or anti-gun...I'm for an honest look at the issues that make such a great country a complete mess with the responsibility of owning and actions with our weapons.

[deliciousV]

first to del v, it was in response to the article more than you

second, the very concept of arming no gun zones is stupid, as then one can argue they'd just pick the spot that is easier to get to someone/some people...as is the very case here and with most cases. having GRADE SCHOOL teachers that go through the process legally...packing heat is crazy and stupid. how often do you think grade schools are shooting crime scenes? it's not linked to the school really, but the teacher/mother and her fucking idiot son.

people well trained would have issues with a tactical take down in a damn grade school, now we're going to expect K-5 teachers and lunch ladies packing to set the record straight and save everyone?! come on. this kid would have done just as much damage if not more if he went down in some blaze of angry glory versus some fat schlub 3rd grade teacher.

I agree that this is an unusual circumstance, but I don't doubt for a minute that it'll be copied and eventually one-up'd.
But why does the defender example have to be a "fat schlub" , I'd find it more believable that a gym teacher, or somebody who'd been in the national guard to pay for college would be the type of person to carry a gun. Because again, I'm not saying that people should be asked to carry, I'm not saying recruit them and arm them, I'm saying that a person who already has met the requirements, and can carry a gun most everywhere else should be allowed to do so at their job, even if it's a school.
Now this isn't a solution for the problem we are facing, it might help deter SOME, not this last nut. The best guess I have for a solution is school districts, city councils, and tax payers are gonna have to come off the cash to dedicate an officer or two to every school to patrol the grounds and the hallways.

[Bob Impact]

not the system bob, our overall culture that guns aren't at least a part of the problem in how readily available they are to complete idiots and families like these. legal, illegal, either or it doesn't matter, we are just way in over our head with weapons in our society and our quickness to anger and aggression. nobody implied it was a licensed gun owner who did this, but it was done through them. as you said it's been done by plenty of legal gun owners too, bc it happens both ways. it's a case that we are just way too vested in guns, power and aggression when wronged versus another way.

the point is trite bc it is clear manipulation of the details of this case to make it look like all was fine with the system and it was JUST a nutcase here. spin have you, in which the mental health of the mother is clearly in question too, she didn't give two shits to protect the weapons she had to protect her from? and now we find out she basically ignored countless issues with her son and just left the weapons, registered or not, open to his access.

to me it's obviously a case of too many guns with too little control bc people can't be trusted overall in our current society. that doesn't mean full out revoking of guns, but better control, screening and maintenance of said weapons keeping them from disturbed idiots who can't control their angry urges and ending their lives in a fury of gunfire. I'm not pro-gun or anti-gun...I'm for an honest look at the issues that make such a great country a complete mess with the responsibility of owning and actions with our weapons.

I agree in the sense that I think we've always had violence in society but the killing power of the average person grows with technology. Obviously the answer is not to have every single person armed with a small nuke everywhere they go. I also tend to think a lot of the "they'll give in immediately when confronted" mentality is driven by cognitive re-framing in the face of such an unthinkable event. These people are committed to dying via a gun one way or the other, so if it's your gun that gets them or their own, what do they really care? There's a balancing act to play like all civil/personal rights, always has been and always will be.

Also, practically speaking I agree that this is a fairly clear failure of the existing regulations based on the mother. That said, who knows what type of system, if any, could have caught the pattern. It's easy to look at one case in hindsight, judging that beforehand gets a lot more messy.

[spoon]

I agree that some cases, perhaps even this one, simply can't be stopped at this point. Yet we surely can limit the odds better with some changes. And as you say, it is a fine line...one that we surely shouldn't just give away our rights bc of some asshole. There always will be people who do awful things with our expanding technology. That doesn't mean we need to limit everyone else's use of them, just find a safer/better way to do so. We obviously have a bigger issue with this than every other industrialized nation in the world, I'd say that should be enough to warrant SOME adjustments in our policy and digging down as to the root causes beyond a dr. oz special trying to gain something from this awful event.

[deliciousV]

I agree in the sense that I think we've always had violence in society but the killing power of the average person grows with technology. Obviously the answer is not to have every single person armed with a small nuke everywhere they go. I also tend to think a lot of the "they'll give in immediately when confronted" mentality is driven by cognitive re-framing in the face of such an unthinkable event. These people are committed to dying via a gun one way or the other, so if it's your gun that gets them or their own, what do they really care? There's a balancing act to play like all civil/personal rights, always has been and always will be.

Also, practically speaking I agree that this is a fairly clear failure of the existing regulations based on the mother. That said, who knows what type of system, if any, could have caught the pattern. It's easy to look at one case in hindsight, judging that beforehand gets a lot more messy.

I don't completely disagree with you, but I think past patterns show that these lunitics want to die, not face the possibility of being incapacitated and surviving to face the music. They seem to do their damage until they hear the police coming, then do themselves in, in a way that leaves very little room for doubt. The Oregon mall shooter shot 2 people in a crowded mall, saw an armed civilian aiming at him and ran into a stairwell to kill himself. He didn't involve himself in a shootout and go out in a blaze of stupidity.

[deliciousV]

I agree that some cases, perhaps even this one, simply can't be stopped at this point. Yet we surely can limit the odds better with some changes. And as you say, it is a fine line...one that we surely shouldn't just give away our rights bc of some asshole. There always will be people who do awful things with our expanding technology. That doesn't mean we need to limit everyone else's use of them, just find a safer/better way to do so. We obviously have a bigger issue with this than every other industrialized nation in the world, I'd say that should be enough to warrant SOME adjustments in our policy and digging down as to the root causes beyond a dr. oz special trying to gain something from this awful event.

well look at that, we agree on something.

[Bob Impact]

I will also say, having passed through Newtown a few times since Saturday, another (obviously far secondary) negative effect of this has been just how vulture-like people really are. From the news media to the WBC.

I just got an email from the town my wife works in (Stratford) that there will be a large funeral tomorrow and to avoid a certain section of town if at all possible. The rumor is that WBC is showing up to that one, but even if they don't, the funerals and vigils they've had so far shut down entire hunks of towns around here, let alone having Obama visit. It's an amazing amount of activity, both good and bad that are combining to shell shock these already shell shocked little towns.

[spoon]

i refuse to watch any of it on tv

i'll read a report or listen to a radio report, but I refuse to give their now meaningless and invasive coverage a second of my time or ratings

and delv, we agree on plenty more than that...our conversations are far from a WFool fuckfest shitstorm of GOP tourettes

[deliciousV]

i refuse to watch any of it on tv

i'll read a report or listen to a radio report, but I refuse to give their now meaningless and invasive coverage a second of my time or ratings

and delv, we agree on plenty more than that...our conversations are far from a WFool fuckfest shitstorm of GOP tourettes

I stopped watching any of the coverage after the first day and a half, when it was actually news. Now it's just bait, drawing in the next sick fuck who's picturing himself getting all this attention.
And Spoon, I know, you're not nearly as wrong as I thought you were :thumbup:

[Snoogans]

ill add myself to this debate here. clearly, i dont believe in banning guns. Clearly, I dont believe in overreacting to events and handing over rights that we currently still have.

But im not dumb. I realize that there are issues with how things are done. Im aware that just because i have 1 gun purchaser ID card in NJ, I should not be allowed to buy as many rifles and shotguns as i want. that doesnt seem smart.

Some of it i get, they look cool, look fierce, and aside from the semi auto properties, arent really much different than most modern bolt action rifles. But they dont need to be able to hold 30 rounds in a magazine, etc things like that.

that being said, did you know you can buy one of these with only the same checks it takes to buy a standard shotgun:

https://d2t1xqejof9utc.cloudfront.net/screenshots/pics/bf5b80bb0b094bd88f39aff6c7ba2c03/large.JPG

Those are the actual bullets for this gun. If you have gun purchaser card, and $7000 extra bucks layin around, you could go into a gun shop and buy this. Its semi automatic and has a 10 round magazine. And can hit things a mile away

So yea, obviously some things civilians should not be allowed to buy. Thats one of them.

But in NJ, even with an "assault" rifle, you arent allowed more than 5 rounds magazine. So it makes it really not that much different from a modern bolt action with a 5 round mag. So to me, an AR 15 or whatever is not really a big deal for someone who is qualified to own guns. Hand guns still are semi, hold more rounds, and are more easily concealed and no one seems to get mad at that.

If it were up to me, no gun would hold more than 10 rounds. No hand gun would be over .45 caliber and no civilian rifles would be over .223 you dont need a fuckin military round in your fuckin gun. I guess I could put in special exceptions in places where the game you are hunting requires a bit more power but people in fuckin NJ dont need more than that

[spoon]

:furious:

[spankyfrank]

:furious:

Spoon SMASH!

[spankyfrank]

Is that a .50 cal?

[deliciousV]

according to this, we're all wrong! Damn I hate when that happens.

http://chronicle.com/blogs/conversation/2012/12/18/top-10-myths-about-mass-shootings/

[Snoogans]

Is that a .50 cal?

yea

browning

[Snoogans]

sorry. Barrett is the company that makes it

[WRESTLINGFAN]

So Biden is being tapped to head a gun control task force.


Im sure he will do a stellar job, just like his mismanagement of overseeing the stimulus.

[A.J.]

according to this, we're all wrong! Damn I hate when that happens.

http://chronicle.com/blogs/conversation/2012/12/18/top-10-myths-about-mass-shootings/

What do you know? Common sense.

[A.J.]

So Biden is being tapped to head a gun control task force.


Im sure he will do a stellar job, just like his mismanagement of overseeing the stimulus.

So Obama appointed someone who spent 40 years in the Senate and who apparently accomplished nothing by way of enacting "tough gun control" (note sarcasm) to help fix the problem now?

Gotcha.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

So Obama appointed someone who spent 40 years in the Senate and who apparently accomplished nothing by way of enacting "tough gun control" (note sarcasm) to help fix the problem now?

Gotcha.

"NOBODY MESSES WITH JOE"

[spoon]

So Obama appointed someone who spent 40 years in the Senate and who apparently accomplished nothing by way of enacting "tough gun control" (note sarcasm) to help fix the problem now?

Gotcha.

I get your point, but did you really think he had the clout in the past, much less the public this much behind him right or wrong in the past? I'd say no way, as the NRA would have diminished him and his attempt fast

[A.J.]

I'm just saying I'd tap Biden for a foreign policy-related matter. That's what HIS real strength is.

Joe Manchin would have been a better pick: a pro-gun guy who is not averse to seriously looking at the issue.

[spankyfrank]

I'm thinking Spoon should head the gun control task force.

[Snoogans]

I'm thinking Spoon should head the gun control task force.

i think this dude has dibs:

http://thejesuscodpiece.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/fat_hairy_guy_on_bed_with_guns.jpg

[spoon]

I'm just saying I'd tap Biden for a foreign policy-related matter. That's what HIS real strength is.

Joe Manchin would have been a better pick: a pro-gun guy who is not averse to seriously looking at the issue.

That makes a ton of sense to me, even though I don't have the overall feel for the ins and outs of all their policies and history the way you do obviously. I was just saying the field of play here for getting something done has changed for a while and one would assume something will come from it all this time around.

[spoon]

looks like DM Moe lost some weight!

[Snoogans]

i dont get what the guitar hero guitars are doing there. Are people supposed to think those are real guitars? to make him look more badass or something?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

i think this dude has dibs:

http://thejesuscodpiece.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/fat_hairy_guy_on_bed_with_guns.jpg

Russell Brand gained some weight

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Do these hack politicians ever think before coming up with these laws that are going to save us?


People will buy AR-15's en masse before they are made illegal. A lot of the gun sales are being made by people who would not regularly buy one.


If 30 round clips are illegal, People will buy more clips that hold less rounds. Sure it takes a second or 2 to change mags but the shooter can have more of them.


Bloomberg, and the rest of them are so smart.

[spoon]

yah bc bans and regulations/restrictions never worked in EVERY OTHER INDUSTRIALIZED COUNTRY of the fucking world right!? I'm not even for crazy restrictions, but way to ignore facts/data again.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

yah bc bans and regulations/restrictions never worked in EVERY OTHER INDUSTRIALIZED COUNTRY of the fucking world right!? I'm not even for crazy restrictions, but way to ignore facts/data again.

Yup those bans in Mexico worked out great.

[spoon]

Yup those bans in Mexico worked out great.

yah, they rank WAY below the US...and it takes time too

how did it work out in Australia?

both of us can pick and choose their stories to relay as well...it's called overall assfuck, not one offs.

[A.J.]

That makes a ton of sense to me, even though I don't have the overall feel for the ins and outs of all their policies and history the way you do obviously. I was just saying the field of play here for getting something done has changed for a while and one would assume something will come from it all this time around.

Agreed, but let's not rush something through the way they did after 9/11. I'm all for thoughtful reform: not ramming half-assed legislation through in order to score points come Election Day.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

yah, they rank WAY below the US...and it takes time too

how did it work out in Australia?

both of us can pick and choose their stories to relay as well...it's called overall assfuck, not one offs.

Other crimes like armed robberies skyrocketed.


Russia also has draconian laws against guns and they have a high murder rate.

[A.J.]

Russia also has draconian laws against guns and they have a high murder rate.

That's just Russian mobsters killing each other.

[spoon]

Agreed, but let's not rush something through the way they did after 9/11. I'm all for thoughtful reform: not ramming half-assed legislation through in order to score points come Election Day.

I agree. I'm not an owner and have little interest right now in doing so, but do understand the right and others having a more practical need being from different worlds within the US alone.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

While its not a majority, There are a lot of people that want to have the 2nd amendment repealed. I know some people who think that only cops and the military should have firearms.

[Bob Impact]

Do these hack politicians ever think before coming up with these laws that are going to save us?


People will buy AR-15's en masse before they are made illegal. A lot of the gun sales are being made by people who would not regularly buy one.


If 30 round clips are illegal, People will buy more clips that hold less rounds. Sure it takes a second or 2 to change mags but the shooter can have more of them.


Bloomberg, and the rest of them are so smart.

More clips that hold less rounds is the goddamned point. First of all figure about a pound per 30 rounds, including clips. Now account for the added bulk and confusion of having more places to have to look while reloading. Most average shooters can probably reload an AR in ~10 seconds. When that's a panicked murderer every reload is a chance for people to get away or for something or someone to stop the shooter.

Not to mention that the chances of you needing 30 rounds during the course of any realistic home defense are slim to none and in theory even help a homeowner by not letting them blow straight through a 30 round clip and jam their ar.

[Dude!]

if guns were banned, it wouldn't be long
before some sociopath rents a U-haul
loaded with fertilizer and drives it into
a daycare center in a federal office building

[deliciousV]

More clips that hold less rounds is the goddamned point. First of all figure about a pound per 30 rounds, including clips. Now account for the added bulk and confusion of having more places to have to look while reloading. Most average shooters can probably reload an AR in ~10 seconds. When that's a panicked murderer every reload is a chance for people to get away or for something or someone to stop the shooter.

Not to mention that the chances of you needing 30 rounds during the course of any realistic home defense are slim to none and in theory even help a homeowner by not letting them blow straight through a 30 round clip and jam their ar.

you never saw 2 clips taped together? You can put two legal clips together, shoot 10 times, flip the mag and shoot 10 more, in way less than 10 seconds. And when this fuck head was between the kids and the door, who's getting out?
This ban is gonna happen, and it doesn't bother me, I don't have, nor can I afford an AR. But people need to just recognize that this is just salve for our collective conscience, it won't change a thing, other than law abiding people will obey, and these hell bent on destruction criminals will still do what they do. The 2 pistols he had on him would have done the same thing, even with small clips you get 11 shots each, and they'll still be legal.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Obama wants a resolution by the task force with a January deadline

With Christmas and New Years?


Never underestimate the stupidity of this president

[WRESTLINGFAN]

you never saw 2 clips taped together? You can put two legal clips together, shoot 10 times, flip the mag and shoot 10 more, in way less than 10 seconds. And when this fuck head was between the kids and the door, who's getting out?
This ban is gonna happen, and it doesn't bother me, I don't have, nor can I afford an AR. But people need to just recognize that this is just salve for our collective conscience, it won't change a thing, other than law abiding people will obey, and these hell bent on destruction criminals will still do what they do. The 2 pistols he had on him would have done the same thing, even with small clips you get 11 shots each, and they'll still be legal.

I think Di Fi said that the ban wouldn't be retroactive so again , Peopke will be rushing to buy the remaining AR-15 and such

[PapaBear]

Obama wants a resolution by the task force with a January deadline

With Christmas and New Years?


Never underestimate the stupidity of this president
He wants the task force to come up with recommendations on reforms by the end of January. It's not like he's demanding new laws by then.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

These hacks can't even decide what they want for lunch by a deadline


I wouldn't be surprised if its a typical DC knee jerk reaction

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I'm on the elliptical watching Maddows show and she opened up droning on about the ATF not having a director in 6 years


This woman is a Rhodes scholar and has a PhD. However she's not that bright.


Has she ever heard of recess appointments ? She tries to sound like some snarky professor but she reminds me of these people who became ordained ministers from the Universal Life Church

[spoon]

Obama wants a resolution by the task force with a January deadline

With Christmas and New Years?


Never underestimate the stupidity of this president

January what?

and why can't they get something going before the holidays?

it's the 19th as I type this and the issue isn't exactly new

[spoon]

He wants the task force to come up with recommendations on reforms by the end of January. It's not like he's demanding new laws by then.

thank you for clarifying WF's foolish banter

[spoon]

I'm on the elliptical watching Maddows show and she opened up droning on about the ATF not having a director in 6 years


This woman is a Rhodes scholar and has a PhD. However she's not that bright.


Has she ever heard of recess appointments ? She tries to sound like some snarky professor but she reminds me of these people who became ordained ministers from the Universal Life Church

does she mr. elliptical?

is that what she reminds you of?

:dry:

[WRESTLINGFAN]

January what?

and why can't they get something going before the holidays?

it's the 19th as I type this and the issue isn't exactly new

So you just want some knee jerk reaction and a rush to pass a bill just on the merits of getting it passed?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

does she mr. elliptical?

is that what she reminds you of?

:dry:

She reminds me of Rivers Cuomo when shes not wearing makeup.


She couldn't even say that the President no matter who he is, could make a recess appointment.


Academic pedigrees are meaningless without using logic or rational analysis.

[spoon]

So you just want some knee jerk reaction and a rush to pass a bill just on the merits of getting it passed?

well clearly that's exactly what I said!

:wacko:
:wallbash:

[spoon]

She reminds me of Rivers Cuomo when shes not wearing makeup.


She couldn't even say that the President no matter who he is, could make a recess appointment.


Academic pedigrees are meaningless without using logic or rational analysis.

so her looks mean what exactly towards her intelligence? you know, the topic we are discussing which you can't do without constant digs as per the norm

and you truly believe she doesn't understand recess appointments now? really? you're funny

you should focus on what the pundits wear and look like, that's about all you can handle

[WRESTLINGFAN]

so her looks mean what exactly towards her intelligence? you know, the topic we are discussing which you can't do without constant digs as per the norm

and you truly believe she doesn't understand recess appointments now? really? you're funny

you should focus on what the pundits wear and look like, that's about all you can handle

I can handle shooting down Schultz's farce about the auto bailout and Maddows failure to mention something as basic as recess appointments

[WRESTLINGFAN]

well clearly that's exactly what I said!

:wacko:
:wallbash:

How can a panel be formed with less than 2 weeks left in the year and almost everyone leaving DC for Christmas in the coming days ?

[spankyfrank]

How can a panel be formed with less than 2 weeks left in the year and almost everyone leaving DC for Christmas in the coming days ?

http://www.dinodigusa.com/images/Magic1.gif

[spoon]

How can a panel be formed with less than 2 weeks left in the year and almost everyone leaving DC for Christmas in the coming days ?

yes, it's clear business is never done leading up to Christmas

[spankyfrank]

yes, it's clear business is never done leading up to Christmas

Remember that fiscal cliff? That was a good crisis.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

yes, it's clear business is never done leading up to Christmas

Obama is always saying balanced approach. Shouldnt that include the CEO's from the gunmakers, Gun store owners for example?

[spoon]

Obama is always saying balanced approach. Shouldnt that include the CEO's from the gunmakers, Gun store owners for example?

no

policy here shouldn't hinge on either

it's based on our rights and safety overall

why would their profit or lack there of have ANYTHING to do with the issues being tackled here?

right or wrong, ban or not, how do they deserve a seat at this table? they are COMPLETELY biased, and the only angle I could see them having involvement is in the weapon's expert angle...of which is truthfully not owners and CEO's

[WRESTLINGFAN]

no

policy here shouldn't hinge on either

it's based on our rights and safety overall

why would their profit or lack there of have ANYTHING to do with the issues being tackled here?

right or wrong, ban or not, how do they deserve a seat at this table? they are COMPLETELY biased, and the only angle I could see them having involvement is in the weapon's expert angle...of which is truthfully not owners and CEO's

They do deserve a seat. When the auto bailouts were going on, The car companies didnt send the cleaning ladies to DC

[spoon]

They do deserve a seat. When the auto bailouts were going on, The car companies didnt send the cleaning ladies to DC

different you ass

[spoon]

i shouldn't be surprised you can't see that

[WRESTLINGFAN]

i shouldn't be surprised you can't see that

If there's going to be a ban, Why should the CEO's not be invited? The government wants to infringe on their right to sell a product.

Say there is a ban on 30 round and up mags. I keep hearing compromise. They can offer to agree with that but how about negotiating 15 round mag maximum

[keithy_19]

If there's going to be a ban, Why should the CEO's not be invited? The government wants to infringe on their right to sell a product.

Say there is a ban on 30 round and up mags. I keep hearing compromise. They can offer to agree with that but how about negotiating 15 round mag maximum

30 wound up mags seems like quite the waste of paper.

[spoon]

the compromise isn't bt owners and ceos assclown

it's between rights and safety

fucking fool

why, WHY should some asshole ceo and fucking gun store owner have a fucking say on my rights and god damn safety linked to their profits?

you can't be so stupid...i take that back

[deliciousV]

If there's going to be a ban, Why should the CEO's not be invited? The government wants to infringe on their right to sell a product.

Say there is a ban on 30 round and up mags. I keep hearing compromise. They can offer to agree with that but how about negotiating 15 round mag maximum

while I'm not really a fan of a ban, I think their opinion can be anticipated, and it will fall on deaf ears. The majority of this country needs something done, in my opinion it will be symbolic at best, but something will be done.

[jennysmurf]

30 wound up mags seems like quite the waste of paper.

Sillybuns.

[spoon]

while I'm not really a fan of a ban, I think their opinion can be anticipated, and it will fall on deaf ears. The majority of this country needs something done, in my opinion it will be symbolic at best, but something will be done.

I don't think our 2nd amendment rights are going to just get pushed aside and fall on deaf ears

[WRESTLINGFAN]

the compromise isn't bt owners and ceos assclown

it's between rights and safety

fucking fool

why, WHY should some asshole ceo and fucking gun store owner have a fucking say on my rights and god damn safety linked to their profits?

you can't be so stupid...i take that back

Why should some hack politician have a say on my rights to own a product that is still legal and store owners selling them?

There are politicians who come up with these grand schemes without even putting any thought into it. But then again this is the same gov't who thinks liquids that are 4 fl oz or more needs to be checked in.


Bloomberg makes some ignorant comment about gun deaths here but fails to mention murders in other countries with more excessive regs than the US?

My right to a weapon includes your right not to own one.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I don't think our 2nd amendment rights are going to just get pushed aside and fall on deaf ears

Lets have more gun free school zones, like some sign is going to stop some crazed killer.

[deliciousV]

I don't think our 2nd amendment rights are going to just get pushed aside and fall on deaf ears

I was saying that the CEO's of gun companies needn't be involved at this point, people are ok with a ban of assault rifles, no reason to hear the CEO's opinion, it's already duly noted. They'd be waisting their breath. I don't think, after this last horror that too many people associate the probable ban with the 2nd amendment.

[spoon]

Why should some hack politician have a say on my rights to own a product that is still legal and store owners selling them?

There are politicians who come up with these grand schemes without even putting any thought into it. But then again this is the same gov't who thinks liquids that are 4 fl oz or more needs to be checked in.


Bloomberg makes some ignorant comment about gun deaths here but fails to mention murders in other countries with more excessive regs than the US?

My right to a weapon includes your right not to own one.

bc that's part of their job and we elected them to make tough calls, not some fucking asshole ceo's who fucking have way too much power over the common man already and were never elected to such a position

and yes, more than 4 oz liquids do need to be checked...good point

my right to safety, along with my family isn't trumped by some need of others to stockpile a small army

[spankyfrank]

I'm thinking put in new security measures. Automated locks for classrooms with canisters of tear gas to be thrown into the classes as the gun men in shootin'.

FLAWLESS!

[spoon]

Lets have more gun free school zones, like some sign is going to stop some crazed killer.

yes yes, that's the answer everyone here is calling for!

nailed it!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

bc that's part of their job and we elected them to make tough calls, not some fucking asshole ceo's who fucking have way too much power over the common man already and were never elected to such a position

and yes, more than 4 oz liquids do need to be checked...good point

my right to safety, along with my family isn't trumped by some need of others to stockpile a small army

Yes, the same asshole CEO's like as in the car companies? The same CEO's that pimped out Romney and Obama?

Is anyone forcing you to buy a product like with Obamacare? How about I go John Roberts? You really dont have to buy a gun but if you don't youll pay a tax.

I get it now, you want a democracy

I love how you want to pick and choose what calls to make.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I'm thinking put in new security measures. Automated locks for classrooms with canisters of tear gas to be thrown into the classes as the gun men in shootin'.

FLAWLESS!

How about better school security. Im not saying arm every teachers, however minor tweaks can be made so that a school doesnt look like Fulsom

We build these palacial new schools with computer and media rooms that look like a trading floor but there's no money to make adjustments for safety?

[spankyfrank]

Probably the closest we are going to get in increased protection is putting some more security officers at schools armed.

The next step will be a thing of you can't enter a school without a badge like they do at college's now.

It's not perfect but it will do because this bickering won't change anyone's mind.

[spoon]

Yes, the same asshole CEO's like as in the car companies? The same CEO's that pimped out Romney and Obama?

I get it now, you want a democracy

I love how you want to pick and choose what calls to make.

i already explained the difference

agree or not, you're too idiotic to even see it STILL

comparing these two situations and CEO involvement is laughable at best

good job fuckwad

and yes WF, you pick and choose in these type situations when some idiot puts a STUPID option on the table. another in a long line of monkey see monkey post as his own adventure with WF!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Probably the closest we are going to get in increased protection is putting some more security officers at schools armed.

The next step will be a thing of you can't enter a school without a badge like they do at college's now.

It's not perfect but it will do because this bickering won't change anyone's mind.

If you go that route, they should be in plainclothes. The taxpayers shouldn't foot the bill. Have some of that money taken out of union dues or from the other funds they have like writing papers on climate change and all the other useless unnecessary shit the union bosses piss away like donating to politicians.

[spoon]

How about better school security. Im not saying arm every teachers, however minor tweaks can be made so that a school doesnt look like Fulsom

We build these palacial new schools with computer and media rooms that look like a trading floor but there's no money to make adjustments for safety?

we do!? ha!

seems like you haven't been in a school...well ever if based on your intellect alone, but overall schools are NOT and DO NOT look like palatial (notice the spelling) or loaded with trading floor computer/media rooms. yes, you found the answer and missing money to fund education, they've been wasting it on scottrade aps and open spaces! if only they locked more doors and made minor tweaks this would be so preventable. oof

[spankyfrank]

If you go that route, they should be in plainclothes. The taxpayers shouldn't foot the bill. Have some of that money taken out of union dues or from the other funds they have like writing papers on climate change and all the other useless unnecessary shit the union bosses piss away like donating to politicians.

Or take it out of school taxes, most of which goes to sports anyway.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

i already explained the difference

agree or not, you're too idiotic to even see it STILL

comparing these two situations and CEO involvement is laughable at best

good job fuckwad

and yes WF, you pick and choose in these type situations when some idiot puts a STUPID option on the table. another in a long line of monkey see monkey post as his own adventure with WF!

Your explanations holds no water.

What is stupid about offering to still sell mags that are less than 30 rounds?

You can still do a lot of damage with 10 round mags. It takes a matter of only seconds to lock and reload.

[spoon]

If you go that route, they should be in plainclothes. The taxpayers shouldn't foot the bill. Have some of that money taken out of union dues or from the other funds they have like writing papers on climate change and all the other useless unnecessary shit the union bosses piss away like donating to politicians.

ha! the UNIONS should pay for it!? WHAT?!

useless papers on climate change!? how fucking stupid ARE YOU!?

just wow

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Or take it out of school taxes, most of which goes to sports anyway.

I have no objection to that. Private donations can pick up the slack of underfunded sports programs.

[spoon]

Your explanations holds no water.

What is stupid about offering to still sell mags that are less than 30 rounds?

You can still do a lot of damage with 10 round mags. It takes a matter of only seconds to lock and reload.

never once touched the question of what sells or not, you keep diving into this as if it's being discussed. I don't care one way or the other, and CEOs have no place in making the calls on this topic and never should. They have way too much power these days already and you just want them to help mold public policy outright huh?! Fuck that. Money and profits are not the topic, AT ALL! It's our rights to bear arms, to what level and how they are regulated and our resulting safety or lack there of based on said policy. So yah, profits and sales wouldn't cloud a CEO's fucking judgement AT ALL, much less the fact they have no place at this table. NONE

[WRESTLINGFAN]

ha! the UNIONS should pay for it!? WHAT?!

useless papers on climate change!? how fucking stupid ARE YOU!?

just wow

I wasn't clear enough?


Yes, some unions participate in those practices.

[spoon]

I have no objection to that. Private donations can pick up the slack of underfunded sports programs.

only if they raise your taxes

and no, fuck your private donations

kids deserve to have arts, sports and other options at public schools, and they cost very little overall, not absorb most of our school taxes as spanky seemingly stated.

[spoon]

I wasn't clear enough?


Yes, some unions participate in those practices.

yes you were clearly an idiot

clear as air

[WRESTLINGFAN]

never once touched the question of what sells or not, you keep diving into this as if it's being discussed. I don't care one way or the other, and CEOs have no place in making the calls on this topic and never should. They have way too much power these days already and you just want them to help mold public policy outright huh?! Fuck that. Money and profits are not the topic, AT ALL! It's our rights to bear arms, to what level and how they are regulated and our resulting safety or lack there of based on said policy. So yah, profits and sales wouldn't cloud a CEO's fucking judgement AT ALL, much less the fact they have no place at this table. NONE

What is the main focus on any CEO? Its to ensure that his companies make a profit.

Yes, they are affected and if its a public company, it affects shareholders, pension funds etc.

[spankyfrank]

only if they raise your taxes

and no, fuck your private donations

kids deserve to have arts, sports and other options at public schools, and they cost very little overall, not absorb most of our school taxes as spanky seemingly stated.

Well it's a compromise for safety which is the overall goal. I admit I don't know how much go into what as far as school taxes go. But as far as sports go if you talk to any private school parent, the sports program is entirely privately funded.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

only if they raise your taxes

and no, fuck your private donations

kids deserve to have arts, sports and other options at public schools, and they cost very little overall, not absorb most of our school taxes as spanky seemingly stated.

A priority of any educator is to ensure kids have functions to read write and have math skills according to their age group/grade

So if there's an alumnus who wants to donate money for arts, music, sports or to build a HD scoreboard for the football games youre going to say fuck your money? You truly are a slave to the state

[spoon]

Well it's a compromise for safety which is the overall goal. I admit I don't know how much go into what as far as school taxes go. But as far as sports go if you talk to any private school parent, the sports program is entirely privately funded.

bc private schools are in the business of making money

and even so, most private schools I know have great sports programs and actually recruit kids to go there free bc of their abilities at even that young an age.

[spoon]

What is the main focus on any CEO? Its to ensure that his companies make a profit.

Yes, they are affected and if its a public company, it affects shareholders, pension funds etc.

so yah, just let the kids go back to breaker boy days

let's go back to no rights and safety bc it has an effect on shareholders

this is the exact reason they should have no place in this

[spankyfrank]

bc private schools are in the business of making money

and even so, most private schools I know have great sports programs and actually recruit kids to go there free bc of their abilities at even that young an age.

Mine didn't :down:

Worst football team you ever saw.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

so yah, just let the kids go back to breaker boy days

let's go back to no rights and safety bc it has an effect on shareholders

this is the exact reason they should have no place in this

You do have a flair for the dramatics don't you ? So a company no matter what it is, exists for people to feel better as its top goal?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Mine didn't :down:

Worst football team you ever saw.

Was Sanchez the QB ?

[spankyfrank]

Was Sanchez the QB ?

Ha! It's funny Sanchez does remind me of the QB we had. Buncha sad sacks we had. I think we went 2 years without a win.

[spoon]

A priority of any educator is to ensure kids have functions to read write and have math skills according to their age group/grade

So if there's an alumnus who wants to donate money for arts, music, sports or to build a HD scoreboard for the football games youre going to say fuck your money? You truly are a slave to the state

again, READ

you idea to basically fund sports through private donations is off, not you can't make a donation. you're an idiot...sense a theme here ignoramus?! of course you don't

the priority of any SCHOOL is to ready a kid for the world and educate them on all things possible and help them find their niche/interest. having the branches of the arts, music and sports reliant on private donations is NOT a good idea at all. math and reading are fundamental skills that tie into everything else and are clearly important, but they don't cost much past the educator and you want to dumb down their pay, benefits and more. so you basically want vouchers and private schools overall. shocker

[spoon]

You do have a flair for the dramatics don't you ? So a company no matter what it is, exists for people to feel better as its top goal?

if by feel better you mean workers rights, safety and child labor laws, damn right

imbecile

[keithy_19]

Sillybuns.

I try to add levity to things.

[spoon]

Ha! It's funny Sanchez does remind me of the QB we had. Buncha sad sacks we had. I think we went 2 years without a win.

so you're saying you didn't have good mobility?

:innocent:

[spoon]

I try to add levity to things.

how dare you!

[spankyfrank]

if by feel better you mean workers rights, safety and child labor laws, damn right

imbecile

I was gonna say a company's top goal is to make money by any means necessary, but I could be mistaken.

[spankyfrank]

so you're saying you didn't have good mobility?

:innocent:

Funny part is we were a catholic school. Bunch of Tebows running around.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

again, READ

you idea to basically fund sports through private donations is off, not you can't make a donation. you're an idiot...sense a theme here ignoramus?! of course you don't

the priority of any SCHOOL is to ready a kid for the world and educate them on all things possible and help them find their niche/interest. having the branches of the arts, music and sports reliant on private donations is NOT a good idea at all. math and reading are fundamental skills that tie into everything else and are clearly important, but they don't cost much past the educator and you want to dumb down their pay, benefits and more. so you basically want vouchers and private schools overall. shocker

You said fuck your private donations. The theme means that outside money isn't welcomed in SpoonSchool

Did I ever say to shitcan arts, music etc? You love to make these crazy conclusions. I did not say to lower their salary or force them to leave the unions.

What's wrong with choice and competition. I love how its peoples choices to marry and sleep who they want, which I have no problem with but for parents to decide where their kids are educated is a 3rd rail.

[spoon]

I was gonna say a company's top goal is to make money by any means necessary, but I could be mistaken.

it is, but some think we should let them make the call on our rights and let them draw up their own regulations, or lack there of

having them at the table is stupid, you know what they'll say as Del V stated.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

if by feel better you mean workers rights, safety and child labor laws, damn right

imbecile

Workers have rights. There is safety and 9 year olds arent making phones. In case you don't know we aren't in Beijing.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

it is, but some think we should let them make the call on our rights and let them draw up their own regulations, or lack there of

having them at the table is stupid, you know what they'll say as Del V stated.

Wow, so now we are in Mogadishu?

[spoon]

You said fuck your private donations. The theme means that outside money isn't welcomed in SpoonSchool

Did I ever say to shitcan arts, music etc? You love to make these crazy conclusions. I did not say to lower their salary or force them to leave the unions.

What's wrong with choice and competition. I love how its peoples choices to marry and sleep who they want, which I have no problem with but for parents to decide where their kids are educated is a 3rd rail.

sigh

i just explained to you that your idea on my "theme" is fucking stupid, and yet you still act like it's my stance

then YOU go and try to call my conclusions crazy!? you have been calling for union breakups, lesser wages and benefits and so much more since you've been on this fucking board. do you think what you write in other threads like that tied to Wisconsin's dealings with the unions are just forgotten or not fair game here!? You have to be insane to even try this bullshit. THEN you go and try to tell me it's about choice on the voucher/education issue!? HA!

I can't even imagine how you manage to dress yourself every morning you seem so fucking stupid. You can't even recall your own stances, or blatantly choose to ignore them when it's convenient to one of your stupid "points".

:wallbash:

[spoon]

Workers have rights. There is safety and 9 year olds arent making phones. In case you don't know we aren't in Beijing.

and those were earned and fought for by unions and gov regulation, NOT industry self-policing

things are sliding backwards of late too, in the interest...guise of making the US more competitive, while only losing more of what so many fought so hard to attain. thanks for the idiotic point/reminder on china though...thanks fuckfool

[spoon]

Funny part is we were a catholic school. Bunch of Tebows running around.

should have prayed more

[WRESTLINGFAN]

sigh

i just explained to you that your idea on my "theme" is fucking stupid, and yet you still act like it's my stance

then YOU go and try to call my conclusions crazy!? you have been calling for union breakups, lesser wages and benefits and so much more since you've been on this fucking board. do you think what you write in other threads like that tied to Wisconsin's dealings with the unions are just forgotten or not fair game here!? You have to be insane to even try this bullshit. THEN you go and try to tell me it's about choice on the voucher/education issue!? HA!

I can't even imagine how you manage to dress yourself every morning you seem so fucking stupid. You can't even recall your own stances, or blatantly choose to ignore them when it's convenient to one of your stupid "points".

:wallbash:

Public sector breakups ? I'm all for that. Reason being that there is no one representing the taxpayers at the bargaining table. Since you like to being up Bush from time to time. I'll go back about 70 years or so when FDR opposed having public sector unions. As much as I disagree with unions like the teamsters and union bosses in general as long as they arent robbing from my wallet then they should be able to exist. I think it should be voluntary.

I wouldn't call the UAW a private sector union since they are still sucking on the teet of the taxpayers.

If anyone says fuck their money its plain English that they dont want a dime.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

and those were earned and fought for by unions and gov regulation, NOT industry self-policing

things are sliding backwards of late too, in the interest...guise of making the US more competitive, while only losing more of what so many fought so hard to attain. thanks for the idiotic point/reminder on china though...thanks fuckfool

Haven't unions become what they once despised? A sort of quasi government with powerful bosses entrenched in relations with politicians?

From time to time I hear Dick Trumka whaling about the 1% meanwhile he's practically got a parking space at the WH and living an lavish lifestyle.


Speaking of Dick, ever hear of Eddie York and his involvement with that case?

[Bob Impact]

Holy SHIT this is off topic and stupid now.

[Jujubees2]

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/525071_10151185228651275_2027552881_n.jpg

[Jujubees2]

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/156099_10151185094061275_2054271487_n.jpg

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Another Brilliant idea by Sheila Jackson lee


She wants everyone to turn in their guns. Yes the same nut who thinks there's not enough black names for Hurricanes

[WRESTLINGFAN]

So Obama gets a tough question from Jake Tapper from ABC news. ( Not Fox) about why he didnt bring up the issue of gun control earlier.

As usual, the Martyr brings up that he had to deal with the worst economic crisis and the usual bitch comments that he parrots over and over.


Our smartest president ever doesnt know that there was Aurora , The Sikh Temple and The Giffords shooting? Aurora and The Sikh shooting was only a few months ago.

Even when he tries to make excuses he proves that he's really not that smart.

I’ve been president of the United States dealing with the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression, an auto industry on the verge of collapse, two wars, I don’t think I’ve been on vacation." - Obama


Sure Barry, you dont know what vacation is.

[A.J.]

Another Brilliant idea by Sheila Jackson lee


She wants everyone to turn in their guns. Yes the same nut who thinks there's not enough black names for Hurricanes

I'm sure gang members and other violent criminals will be moved by this tragedy to do so.

[sailor]

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/525071_10151185228651275_2027552881_n.jpg

Cute, but most of what you hear today is about banning certain types of guns, not what this would have you believe.

[hanso]

Next thing you know online video game players will lay down their arms.

[brettmojo]

So Obama gets a tough question from Jake Tapper from ABC news. ( Not Fox) about why he didnt bring up the issue of gun control earlier.

As usual, the Martyr brings up that he had to deal with the worst economic crisis and the usual bitch comments that he parrots over and over.....

lol

[Snoogans]

Cute, but most of what you hear today is about banning certain types of guns, not what this would have you believe.

agreed. I dont know a single law abiding citizen who would have any problem with those restrictions. Most people are yellin to not allow guns at all

[spoon]

Another Brilliant idea by Sheila Jackson lee


She wants everyone to turn in their guns. Yes the same nut who thinks there's not enough black names for Hurricanes

you mean the same thing that actually worked in Australia?

oh she's a whacko at times sure, but your bias shines through again

[spoon]

So Obama gets a tough question from Jake Tapper from ABC news. ( Not Fox) about why he didnt bring up the issue of gun control earlier.

As usual, the Martyr brings up that he had to deal with the worst economic crisis and the usual bitch comments that he parrots over and over.


Our smartest president ever doesnt know that there was Aurora , The Sikh Temple and The Giffords shooting? Aurora and The Sikh shooting was only a few months ago.

Even when he tries to make excuses he proves that he's really not that smart.

I’ve been president of the United States dealing with the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression, an auto industry on the verge of collapse, two wars, I don’t think I’ve been on vacation." - Obama


Sure Barry, you dont know what vacation is.

I'm sure he'd get the traction he needed actually do something based on the Sikh killings...as this is a much more traumatic event, agree or not, to most and will cause a shift in what can get through. And if not getting anything done highlights anything, it's the two parties being entrenched on different ends of the spectrum & the bullshit length and involvement of the election cycle, NOT that Obama was sleeping on the job, much less doesn't deserve vacation time. WF, tossing blame in one direction as per the norm. Use of parrot too, nice work you fucking tool. Seriously, Obama isn't smart bc this answer? You're an ass.

[spoon]

lol

indeed

[spoon]

agreed. I dont know a single law abiding citizen who would have any problem with those restrictions. Most people are yellin to not allow guns at all

I don't see that. They might be a loud faction, but most just want a lot of what was actually in that meme's rundown

[spoon]

Some history...repeating itself unfortunately. (http://news.yahoo.com/nra-gun-makers-got-around-last-ban-assault-051539375.html)

Those following the gun control legislation bubbling up on Capitol Hill must be getting a lot of déjà vu, since similar legislation made its way through Congress 20 years ago. We're specifically talking about the ban on assault rifles that was supported by Sen. Diane Feinstein in 1994 and a new one she says she'll introduce in 2013. Thanks largely to the National Rifle Association (NRA) and others in the gun lobby, Feinstein's original ban expired in 2004 but not before gun manufacturers came up with all kinds of ways to get around the law, leaving some to wonder if it was even effective in the first place. How'd they do that? Let us count the ways.

The very sobering reality of the story behind the assault rifle ban is that it came about after an event much like last week's devastating shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School. As New York Times reporters Michael Luo and Michael Cooper recount in a story due to appear on the front page of Thursday's paper, a "troubled drifter" with an assault rifle opened fire on a California elementary school playground in January 1989, killing five children between the ages of 6 and 9 and injuring 29 others. Feinstein and a phalanx of senators got to work right away on gun control legislation that would ban the weapons, characterized by combat-type features like pistol grips, flash suppressors and large-capacity magazines that are easy to reload. It took them five years to get the law passed, and by that point in time, the gun industry had already made most of the adjustments that would allow them to continue selling the same assault rifle-like weapons with the ban in place.

A lot happened in DC during those five years. Two Democrats, Ohio Sen. Howard M. Metzenbaum and Arizona Sen. Dennis DeConcini, introduced bills that would ban assault rifles that floundered under pressure from the gun lobby, despite DeConcini having once been named the NRA's "legislator of the month." Speaking of the NRA, the powerful organization was busy elsewhere in Washington strong-arming organizations into halting research into gun violence. They eventually helped pass a bill that stripped the Centers for Disease Control of $2.6 million in funding, a sum that happened to be the exact budget for its firearms research. Somewhat short on research and struggling to win support, the anti-assault rifle senators eventually got the ban passed by tacking it onto a 1993 crime bill, under Feinstein's leadership.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

you mean the same thing that actually worked in Australia?

oh she's a whacko at times sure, but your bias shines through again

Youre making this too easy.


Violent crime has jumped up exponentially in Australia.


What biasness? She wants storms named Hurricane Sheniqua.


Plus she isnt too bright. What makes her think that everyone will turn in guns. Shes from Texas. They love their guns there

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I'm sure he'd get the traction he needed actually do something based on the Sikh killings...as this is a much more traumatic event, agree or not, to most and will cause a shift in what can get through. And if not getting anything done highlights anything, it's the two parties being entrenched on different ends of the spectrum & the bullshit length and involvement of the election cycle, NOT that Obama was sleeping on the job, much less doesn't deserve vacation time. WF, tossing blame in one direction as per the norm. Use of parrot too, nice work you fucking tool. Seriously, Obama isn't smart bc this answer? You're an ass.

He's of avarage intelligence at best. Obama is just using the Rahm Emmanuel playbook. Never let a crisis go to waste.


I quoted his own words in regards to vacation. Nice job spinning that again Michy
How many times must he get on the political soapbox repeating the same shit. He should get over himself.

I love how they want to have more strict requirements, but they dumb down the qualifications for citizenship. They want better tracking of guns but they cant find 20 million people here illegally?


Typical picking and choosing by this fucking inept government

[spoon]

wf, still an idiot i see

as if i ever doubted it

the only thing worse than your biased spin bullshit tripe is your attempt at humor or insults

stupid is as stupid does

[Bob Impact]

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/156099_10151185094061275_2054271487_n.jpg

This is a horribly misleading image.
1) The government doesn't track some old woman's purchases, even if they were working without a warrant they would still need to target that specific person. There's simply too much cost and manpower associated with surveillance.

2) There is no blanket system in place to allow the government to monitor all consumer purchases. Even if there was it could very easily be defeated legally by paying in cash. Not to mention the legal arguments that would be required to PROVE that this old woman purchased all of this herself and wasn't the victim of identity theft.

3) The internet will never work in the government's favor for things like this. Even today a motivated person could find out about the Darknet/Deep Web/Tor/.Onion domains with a few simple Google searches. Payments for that type of thing are often processed with bitcoin, which fully anonmizes that payment process. It should be noted that the truly anonymous deep web isn't always a bad thing. There is obviously a TON of frightening content out there but there's also a whole network there for people in countries with oppressive dictatorships that allows them communication with the outside world. More importantly in this case is that there is little to nothing the government could even do to stop it from happening. As the meshnet (https://projectmeshnet.org/)continues to get built out it's going to complicate things for them even more.

I know people are freaked out right now, but do you REALLY want to live in a world where the government monitors all of your purchases and knocks on your door if you buy too much of one thing? Even if you argue that it's just for ammo there's a very solid slippery slope argument here.

[sailor]

bob, if you buy anything with ephedrine they take down your info off your license. don't know how it works online, but that part of it is accurate.

[A.J.]

I was talking with a friend last night who is the Chief of Staff for a Congressman and I suggested she tell her boss to propose the following as a baseline for any reform : (1) close the loopholes for background checks at gun shows. There's no excuse not to have them. The dealers there should be federally licensed and able to run background checks (2) Anyone who has IMMEDIATE family (family members living in the home) with mental health issues should be denied weapons, or at least limited to the number/types of weapons they are allowed to have.

[Dell]

Every mass shooting has three elements: the killer, the weapon and the cultural climate. As soon as the shooting stops, partisans immediately pick their preferred root cause with corresponding pet panacea. Names are hurled, scapegoats paraded, prejudices vented. The argument goes nowhere. (http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/charles-krauthammer-the-roots-of-mass-murder/2012/12/20/e4d99594-4ae3-11e2-b709-667035ff9029_story.html)

[hanso]

Stuff I posted here had the wording in the title it might not be a standard

If you google the stories it should still show up

[spankyfrank]

Well if anything I called the NRA's statement: http://news.yahoo.com/nra-calls-armed-police-officer-every-school-162851713.html

The nation's largest gun-rights lobby is calling for armed police officers to be posted in every American school to stop the next killer "waiting in the wings."

The National Rifle Association broke its silence Friday on last week's shooting rampage at a Connecticut elementary school that left 26 children and staff dead.

The group's top lobbyist, Wayne LaPierre, said at a Washington news conference that, quote, "The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun."

[hanso]

Let them foot the bill they already run things

[Bob Impact]

bob, if you buy anything with ephedrine they take down your info off your license. don't know how it works online, but that part of it is accurate.

Fair enough, the rest remains valid.

[spoon]

This is a horribly misleading image.
1) The government doesn't track some old woman's purchases, even if they were working without a warrant they would still need to target that specific person. There's simply too much cost and manpower associated with surveillance.

2) There is no blanket system in place to allow the government to monitor all consumer purchases. Even if there was it could very easily be defeated legally by paying in cash. Not to mention the legal arguments that would be required to PROVE that this old woman purchased all of this herself and wasn't the victim of identity theft.

3) The internet will never work in the government's favor for things like this. Even today a motivated person could find out about the Darknet/Deep Web/Tor/.Onion domains with a few simple Google searches. Payments for that type of thing are often processed with bitcoin, which fully anonmizes that payment process. It should be noted that the truly anonymous deep web isn't always a bad thing. There is obviously a TON of frightening content out there but there's also a whole network there for people in countries with oppressive dictatorships that allows them communication with the outside world. More importantly in this case is that there is little to nothing the government could even do to stop it from happening. As the meshnet (https://projectmeshnet.org/)continues to get built out it's going to complicate things for them even more.

I know people are freaked out right now, but do you REALLY want to live in a world where the government monitors all of your purchases and knocks on your door if you buy too much of one thing? Even if you argue that it's just for ammo there's a very solid slippery slope argument here.

I get the points you're making here, and pretty much agree. Still, something is clearly amiss. And while you won't stop everything, there is plenty wrong with our current background checks and the simplistic ways around the shitty regulations in place today.

I sure as hell don't want the gov knowing everything, yet I do think it's naive to think they (US or otherwise) couldn't have a system in place now or in the future to track almost anything or everything for that matter. It's a scary thought, but is it really that tough to imagine? I don't think so.

[spoon]

I was talking with a friend last night who is the Chief of Staff for a Congressman and I suggested she tell her boss to propose the following as a baseline for any reform : (1) close the loopholes for background checks at gun shows. There's no excuse not to have them. The dealers there should be federally licensed and able to run background checks (2) Anyone who has IMMEDIATE family (family members living in the home) with mental health issues should be denied weapons, or at least limited to the number/types of weapons they are allowed to have.

well we sure as hell get into some grey areas with said proposed policy, as what exactly constitutes "mental health issues"? the loophole and checks is a nice place to start

[Jayw]

Oh ya because background checks will solve the problem. Most of these wackos have no record.

I think the best thing I've heard on this topic yet was the guy in this post that said, that all the kids that died at sandy hook are just the price we have to pay for the gun industry to profit.

Just pray its not your kid or you that dies to a legally purchased gun in America by a dude that is bored with his shitty life.

Because that armed guard at columbine really stopped that quickly. All people are 'good guys' until the day they aren't.

[Jayw]

spoon a background check seriously????

There is seriously no answer to this question of gun control in america. Just hope and pray that all these new good guys that nra recruited to sell guns just went out and bought a piece dont turn into bad guys in a few months/years.

[spoon]

Oh ya because background checks will solve the problem. Most of these wackos have no record.

I think the best thing I've heard on this topic yet was the guy in this post that said, that all the kids that died at sandy hook are just the price we have to pay for the gun industry to profit.

Just pray its not your kid or you that dies to a legally purchased gun in America by a dude that is bored with his shitty life.

Because that armed guard at columbine really stopped that quickly. All people are 'good guys' until the day they aren't.

surely it doesn't solve it, nothing completely can to be honest

yet it is something that should be there to take away the ease and mere fact 40% don't even ever get one when buying anything

[spoon]

spoon a background check seriously????

There is seriously no answer to this question of gun control in america. Just hope and pray that all these new good guys that nra recruited to sell guns just went out and bought a piece dont turn into bad guys in a few months/years.

again, it's not the answer and I haven't said it is

hell, I don't even feign to know the complete answer as it's a very tough call overall

still, it's a start as AJ proposed and beyond.

[Jayw]

I understand but I don't even see why you waste the keystrokes talking to a person like WF on an issue like this.

I guess it is the same reason we are talking about the NRA announcement. It is like a car company trying to sell cars when gas prices rise, we are all gonna bitch but still buy it anyway. They might not release that new Hummer with terrible MPG but you can bet there will be a model you can light 8 year olds up with on a school day.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Never let the facts get in the way.


Lanza wanted to buy a weapon before the shooting but he was turned down because he did not want to wait for the 14 day background check period.


So with strict laws already on the books. CT is up there with the most strict. Lanza still found a way to get guns (his mothers) and carry out a massacre.

[KnoxHarrington]

Never let the facts get in the way.


Lanza wanted to buy a weapon before the shooting but he was turned down because he did not want to wait for the 14 day background check period.


So with strict laws already on the books. CT is up there with the most strict. Lanza still found a way to get guns (his mothers) and carry out a massacre.

But his mother easily built up a massive arsenal.

What I love about gun control is that because it won't be 100% foolproof, people argue we shouldn't even try. It would be like saying "Well, people die in car wrecks all the time, so what's the point of having a speed limit." Yes, people are going to get guns if they are determined enough, even with the strictest gun control. But maybe making someone like Adam Lanza work harder for his guns sends a warning that something bad is going to happen, and makes it easier to stop him.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

But his mother easily built up a massive arsenal.

What I love about gun control is that because it won't be 100% foolproof, people argue we shouldn't even try. It would be like saying "Well, people die in car wrecks all the time, so what's the point of having a speed limit." Yes, people are going to get guns if they are determined enough, even with the strictest gun control. But maybe making someone like Adam Lanza work harder for his guns sends a warning that something bad is going to happen, and makes it easier to stop him.



Maybe she didnt keep her guns locked up or in a safe. Who knows she might have left them out along with the bullets.

[deliciousV]

But his mother easily built up a massive arsenal.

What I love about gun control is that because it won't be 100% foolproof, people argue we shouldn't even try. It would be like saying "Well, people die in car wrecks all the time, so what's the point of having a speed limit." Yes, people are going to get guns if they are determined enough, even with the strictest gun control. But maybe making someone like Adam Lanza work harder for his guns sends a warning that something bad is going to happen, and makes it easier to stop him.

Try? It's already in effect in a lot of places. Look up the most dangerous cities in America and you'll find the most stringent gun control. Start with Chicago.
While you're looking, look up before and after violent crime stats in places that went from allowing no conceal carry, to allowing conceal carry.

[cougarjake13]

Never let the facts get in the way.


Lanza wanted to buy a weapon before the shooting but he was turned down because he did not want to wait for the 14 day background check period.


So with strict laws already on the books. CT is up there with the most strict. Lanza still found a way to get guns (his mothers) and carry out a massacre.



kind of a moot point but why was he going to buy a gun or guns if his mom had them which he ultimately used ?




i dont know what the answer may be for the gun issue but as wifi and internet gets more prevalent why not just have ur kids skype to school everyday ??

i know the poorer families may not be able to afford that so i dont know how that would work

[WRESTLINGFAN]

kind of a moot point but why was he going to buy a gun or guns if his mom had them which he ultimately used ?




i dont know what the answer may be for the gun issue but as wifi and internet gets more prevalent why not just have ur kids skype to school everyday ??

i know the poorer families may not be able to afford that so i dont know how that would work

For younger kids 1 parent would have to be home. It might work better with HS aged students


I dont think the teachers unions would go for that. Plus there are the other Civil service workers like cafeteria staff and Janitors who would voice opposition to it.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Try? It's already in effect in a lot of places. Look up the most dangerous cities in America and you'll find the most stringent gun control. Start with Chicago.
While you're looking, look up before and after violent crime stats in places that went from allowing no conceal carry, to allowing conceal carry.

Australia is used as an example however they never cite the dramatic increase of crimes like armed robbery or rape.


The UK is another example in which strict gun control laws led to more violent crimes.


The talk of a new ban is already having unintended consequences. New gun sales have gone up sharply since there was talk about it and the formation of a task force.

[spoon]

But his mother easily built up a massive arsenal.

What I love about gun control is that because it won't be 100% foolproof, people argue we shouldn't even try. It would be like saying "Well, people die in car wrecks all the time, so what's the point of having a speed limit." Yes, people are going to get guns if they are determined enough, even with the strictest gun control. But maybe making someone like Adam Lanza work harder for his guns sends a warning that something bad is going to happen, and makes it easier to stop him.

exactly right

but why let logic get in the way of a bullshit stance/argument!?

[spoon]

Try? It's already in effect in a lot of places. Look up the most dangerous cities in America and you'll find the most stringent gun control. Start with Chicago.
While you're looking, look up before and after violent crime stats in places that went from allowing no conceal carry, to allowing conceal carry.

simply put, it doesn't work overnight and surely won't work on a city by city basis...it has to be a national policy or guns will come from other places all too easily

[spoon]

kind of a moot point but why was he going to buy a gun or guns if his mom had them which he ultimately used ?




i dont know what the answer may be for the gun issue but as wifi and internet gets more prevalent why not just have ur kids skype to school everyday ??

i know the poorer families may not be able to afford that so i dont know how that would work

as if kids and people already aren't antisocial and that's a HUGE part of school and growing up. it's a huge part of the learning system having kids interact, play, socialize and form friendships and have issues to work out too. Skype school? No way I want my lil one going to Our Laday of Phoenix Online Academy where he/she could be the starting goalie on the virtual hockey team and guitar hero lead chair.

[spoon]

For younger kids 1 parent would have to be home. It might work better with HS aged students


I dont think the teachers unions would go for that. Plus there are the other Civil service workers like cafeteria staff and Janitors who would voice opposition to it.

yep, that's the problem with this...unions and civil service workers

:wallbash:

[spoon]

Australia is used as an example however they never cite the dramatic increase of crimes like armed robbery or rape.


The UK is another example in which strict gun control laws led to more violent crimes.


The talk of a new ban is already having unintended consequences. New gun sales have gone up sharply since there was talk about it and the formation of a task force.

let's see these facts I hear you repeating from WABC all day...seriously show me the data

[WRESTLINGFAN]

let's see these facts I hear you repeating from WABC all day...seriously show me the data



Data as of 2009 down under you lazy fuck. As usual you squawk those buzzwords like WABC

http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/index.php?Article_ID=17847

[Snoogans]

is there anything you guys actually agree on? Besides norv turner sucking balls

[Jayw]

Fuck Norv Turner!

[spoon]

Data as of 2009 down under you lazy fuck. As usual you squawk those buzzwords like WABC

http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/index.php?Article_ID=17847

no buzzword assclown, FACTS...bc I listen and you repeat their dribble daily here

and not lazy, just no time and have my doubts...why should I prove your fucking point or take!? are you a fucking idiot, or the real lazy fuck? I'll go with c, all of the above fuckwad fool option

[spoon]

Fuck Norv Turner!

:laugh:

[spoon]

It's cute you use the "nonpartisan" NCPA site that is all about low or no regulation, private sector control and of course backed by countless GOP dollars. Big business for total big business control! Yeah, they have a take on data that truth be told, wasn't backed up in any way. They say some very generic things, with no other factors involved and it's based on data a mere 5 years later, at the heart of a world recession and of course it's from fucking 2009!

This is like comparing data bt two different clinical trials with different patient demographics and of course different cultures and law systems/tracking. Personally I LOVE this statement at the end...While this doesn't prove that more guns would impact crime rates, it does prove that gun control is a flawed policy. Furthermore, this highlights the most important point: gun banners promote failed policy regardless of the consequences to the people who must live with them, says the Examiner. So it's fine to the draw the conclusion that a ban doesn't help OVERALL crime rates, but it's tricky to go all the way and say more guns HELP them!? What?! It's either guns help deflate crime rates based on this article, or you just contradicted your entire story at the end for what? Here's the kicker, banning guns isn't the end all for anything relating to crime, much less violent crime, it's about crime using specific weapons that allow for more damage and fatalities. But hey, why not just bring up mental domestic abuse while were at it too.

I'd love to see a really nice scientific breakdown by a TRULY unbiased group. Not the fucking NCPA...a group of 95% old stodgy white business owners and past GOP loves like General Tommy fucking Franks.

The National Center for Policy Analysis (NCPA) is a nonprofit, nonpartisan public policy research organization, established in 1983. Our goal is to develop and promote private, free-market alternatives to government regulation and control, solving problems by relying on the strength of the competitive, entrepreneurial
private sector.

We bring together the best and brightest minds to tackle the country's most difficult public policy problems — in health care, taxes, retirement, small business, and the environment. In doing so, we propose reforms that liberate consumers, workers, entrepreneurs and the power of the marketplace.

“The NCPA generates more analysis per dollar than any think tank in the country. It does an amazingly good job of going out and finding the right things and talking about them in intelligent ways.”

-- Newt Gingrich,
Former Speaker of the U.S. House
of Representatives

[WRESTLINGFAN]

[QUOTE=spoon;3035314]It's cute you use the "nonpartisan" NCPA site that is all about low or no regulation, private sector control and of course backed by countless GOP dollars. Big business for total big business control! Yeah, they have a take on data that truth be told, wasn't backed up in any way. They say some very generic things, with no other factors involved and it's based on data a mere 5 years later, at the heart of a world recession and of course it's from fucking 2009!

This is like comparing data bt two different clinical trials with different patient demographics and of course different cultures and law systems/tracking. Personally I LOVE this statement at the end... So it's fine to the draw the conclusion that a ban doesn't help OVERALL crime rates, but it's tricky to go all the way and say more guns HELP them!? What?! It's either guns help deflate crime rates based on this article, or you just contradicted your en

[WRESTLINGFAN]

It's cute you use the "nonpartisan" NCPA site that is all about low or no regulation, private sector control and of course backed by countless GOP dollars. Big business for total big business control! Yeah, they have a take on data that truth be told, wasn't backed up in any way. They say some very generic things, with no other factors involved and it's based on data a mere 5 years later, at the heart of a world recession and of course it's from fucking 2009!

This is like comparing data bt two different clinical trials with different patient demographics and of course different cultures and law systems/tracking. Personally I LOVE this statement at the end... So it's fine to the draw the conclusion that a ban doesn't help OVERALL crime rates, but it's tricky to go all the way and say more guns HELP them!? What?! It's either guns help deflate crime rates based on this article, or you just contradicted your entire story at the end for what? Here's the kicker, banning guns isn't the end all for anything relating to crime, much less violent crime, it's about crime using specific weapons that allow for more damage and fatalities. But hey, why not just bring up mental domestic abuse while were at it too.

I'd love to see a really nice scientific breakdown by a TRULY unbiased group. Not the fucking NCPA...a group of 95% old stodgy white business owners and past GOP loves like General Tommy fucking Franks.




What is it with you? Do you have to turn everything into a clusterfuck? The report got it's info from the Aussie's themselves.


Everything with you is a right wing conspiracy. If the report said 2+2=4 you would turn it into some diatribe about Tommy Franks and white people.

Despite the gun ban, guess what? The criminals didnt follow the laws. Who woulda thought?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Ha!!!


Blaming the recession for increased crime. The Aussie gun ban was done in the 1990's, Violent crime shot up way before the recession

[deliciousV]

as I've said before, I believe there will be a ban on assault rifles, won't effect me, but if you know history you know why gun owners will fight it. If you understand the correlation between the first restaurant smoking ban in LA in 1985 and the restriction on soda sizes in NY today, you know this doesn't end here.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

These politicians will never learn. They are not smarter than the electorate.


http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/gun-sales-spike-virginia-colorado-record-highest-background-174415554.html

[WRESTLINGFAN]

as I've said before, I believe there will be a ban on assault rifles, won't effect me, but if you know history you know why gun owners will fight it. If you understand the correlation between the first restaurant smoking ban in LA in 1985 and the restriction on soda sizes in NY today, you know this doesn't end here.



It's all in the buzzwords. These politicians want more control. They look at us as their little experiments and now too many of the electorate accepts it

[deliciousV]

It's all in the buzzwords. These politicians want more control. They look at us as their little experiments and now too many of the electorate accepts it

I dont think you can blame the politicians when the electorate keeps crying out for them to make them feel safer, happily giving up the personal freedoms of others.

[spoon]

What is it with you? Do you have to turn everything into a clusterfuck? The report got it's info from the Aussie's themselves.


Everything with you is a right wing conspiracy. If the report said 2+2=4 you would turn it into some diatribe about Tommy Franks and white people.

Despite the gun ban, guess what? The criminals didnt follow the laws. Who woulda thought?

conspiracy, no

biased tripe in the style you love and live by, yes

guess what, crime is crime, people are people, and guns not being in THE QUOTIENT is the difference you fucking fool, not crime itself. such a stupid fucking fool

go ahead too, hit the board, staff and all that shit on the NCPA site. go get a laugh and see the 60 old white guys and TWO women...white. it's not made up, like the stats they twist one way and don't dare go so far the other. it's a STUPID rundown, PERIOD. Now go back and look at bmojo's data on ACTUAL gun use Australia...you know, the actual thing a ban is set to change, not change asshole human nature and ability to do wrong. the the angle many here, myself included admit can't really be stopped, but something is off overall for so much to go down. it's another part of said issues overall, not tied to IF the ban works or not.

[spoon]

Ha!!!


Blaming the recession for increased crime. The Aussie gun ban was done in the 1990's, Violent crime shot up way before the recession

blaming?

read it again, I say there are factors in said study not even being touched on making such HUGE and dramatic claims overall. but hey, just infer complete blame and miss a point completely.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I dont think you can blame the politicians when the electorate keeps crying out for them to make them feel safer, happily giving up the personal freedoms of others.

Most of the electorate wants us out of Afghanistan, however there are still tens of thousands of troops there until at least 2014.


If these people want to take away freedoms from others, they should consider social democracies like Western Europe. This country was designed not to be a democracy because 51% of the people would get whatever they want.


They have a very flawed view of what a constitutional republic is. If NYC, Chicago and other big cities want strict gun control, as much as I disagree with it, thats their choice, however having the same uniformed laws in Montana doesnt make sense.


My freedom to own weapons includes their freedoms not to own them.

[spoon]

I dont think you can blame the politicians when the electorate keeps crying out for them to make them feel safer, happily giving up the personal freedoms of others.

well I'd say smoking to soda is a HUGE leap and it won't happen in many places outside of NY bc bb is an ass, but no smoking in a confined spot is a good thing to the public at large and I'm for it

it's not as simple as personal freedoms when it involved my personal space and health too bc someone around me in a public spot wants to pollute themselves.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

conspiracy, no

biased tripe in the style you love and live by, yes

guess what, crime is crime, people are people, and guns not being in THE QUOTIENT is the difference you fucking fool, not crime itself. such a stupid fucking fool

go ahead too, hit the board, staff and all that shit on the NCPA site. go get a laugh and see the 60 old white guys and TWO women...white. it's not made up, like the stats they twist one way and don't dare go so far the other. it's a STUPID rundown, PERIOD. Now go back and look at bmojo's data on ACTUAL gun use Australia...you know, the actual thing a ban is set to change, not change asshole human nature and ability to do wrong. the the angle many here, myself included admit can't really be stopped, but something is off overall for so much to go down. it's another part of said issues overall, not tied to IF the ban works or not.

So who should be in that organization? 60 Mestizos from Guatemala who are landscapers?

You constantly try to come up with flawed logic but you constantly fail. I presented the case to a gun ban not reducing crime and you dismiss it as tripe. Furthermore I constantly explain that people will find motives to kill if there was the possibility that all guns were taken away.


Go ahead on some tangent about white people

[spoon]

Most of the electorate wants us out of Afghanistan, however there are still tens of thousands of troops there until at least 2014.


If these people want to take away freedoms from others, they should consider social democracies like Western Europe. This country was designed not to be a democracy because 51% of the people would get whatever they want.


They have a very flawed view of what a constitutional republic is. If NYC, Chicago and other big cities want strict gun control, as much as I disagree with it, thats their choice, however having the same uniformed laws in Montana doesnt make sense.


My freedom to own weapons includes their freedoms not to own them.

sure it makes sense, having towns right outside the city selling like idiots and having no checks or concerns outside of turning a profit would just defeat it all...like it has

it will still take time, but the first year there are issues you'll hear how it's a failure

mind you, I'm not for some all out ban or much to be honest. I'm just willing to look at this objectively overall, not in line with some take coming in

[WRESTLINGFAN]

well I'd say smoking to soda is a HUGE leap and it won't happen in many places outside of NY bc bb is an ass, but no smoking in a confined spot is a good thing to the public at large and I'm for it

it's not as simple as personal freedoms when it involved my personal space and health too bc someone around me in a public spot wants to pollute themselves.

Look what no smoking bans have turned to. It started in restaurants, offices airplanes and it is leading to bans in apartment houses and other establishments.

Just because for the most part it's only Bloomberg who is a nanny doesnt mean that other mayors cant come up with similar and new bans on products.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

sure it makes sense, having towns right outside the city selling like idiots and having no checks or concerns outside of turning a profit would just defeat it all...like it has

it will still take time, but the first year there are issues you'll hear how it's a failure

mind you, I'm not for some all out ban or much to be honest. I'm just willing to look at this objectively overall, not in line with some take coming in

Suburbs outside big cities are already doing this before there is any ban. Post Newtown, gun permits/sales/background checks have only increased.

Even if a large percent of the buyers are the black helicopter crowds and zombie apocalypse preppers, a large majority, probably almost all would get those weapons for a defensive purpose.

[spoon]

So who should be in that organization? 60 Mestizos from Guatemala who are landscapers?

You constantly try to come up with flawed logic but you constantly fail. I presented the case to a gun ban not reducing crime and you dismiss it as tripe. Furthermore I constantly explain that people will find motives to kill if there was the possibility that all guns were taken away.


Go ahead on some tangent about white people

yep, that's it you racist cunt

I doubt it based on where it's from AND what and how the report/story is twisting numbers overall. It also flies in the face of what I've seen reported EVERYWHERE else not tied to your "links of bias fool takes". yes, gun control not reducing crime, if it's even a true rundown, is a STUPID point your stuck on. nobody thinks someone won't find a way to go apeshit if they are truly determined, but the chances with change will make it harder, less drastic and surely if they go another route a better chance to be stopped or caught in the act of planning (your fav fert bomb or attacking kids with a knife/sword). In either situation, he's stopped before even getting CLOSE to what he did with an arsenal, but why pay attention when you can play...no be dumb.

[spoon]

Look what no smoking bans have turned to. It started in restaurants, offices airplanes and it is leading to bans in apartment houses and other establishments.

Just because for the most part it's only Bloomberg who is a nanny doesnt mean that other mayors cant come up with similar and new bans on products.

i have no problem whatsoever with smoking bans in shared places...smoking isn't in a bubble, so it's a choice thing that shouldn't be around those who don't want it in public places. go to a specialized rest if that's your thing, like JR Cigar cafes or others, but not next to me with my family while we eat a nice dinner, on a fucking plane or in the hall of my apt complex.

[spoon]

Suburbs outside big cities are already doing this before there is any ban. Post Newtown, gun permits/sales/background checks have only increased.

Even if a large percent of the buyers are the black helicopter crowds and zombie apocalypse preppers, a large majority, probably almost all would get those weapons for a defensive purpose.

then have them used against them or others

you post that this "post newtown" thing is happening all over in suburbs based on what?! people want it, but very little has actually changed at this point, and nothing short of US national policy would have a meaningful effect if one truly wants a change. right or wrong, difs scity to city, suburb to suburb, rural town to rural town is an idiotic plan before or after Newtown. Shocking you're on the side of idiocy. Surprised I haven't heard just let the gun companies and executives protect us with their words yet...FREE MARKET! They need a voice here!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

yep, that's it you racist cunt

I doubt it based on where it's from AND what and how the report/story is twisting numbers overall. It also flies in the face of what I've seen reported EVERYWHERE else not tied to your "links of bias fool takes". yes, gun control not reducing crime, if it's even a true rundown, is a STUPID point your stuck on. nobody thinks someone won't find a way to go apeshit if they are truly determined, but the chances with change will make it harder, less drastic and surely if they go another route a better chance to be stopped or caught in the act of planning (your fav fert bomb or attacking kids with a knife/sword). In either situation, he's stopped before even getting CLOSE to what he did with an arsenal, but why pay attention when you can play...no be dumb.

Racist


When you lost the argument


Nice try scrote

[deliciousV]

well I'd say smoking to soda is a HUGE leap and it won't happen in many places outside of NY bc bb is an ass, but no smoking in a confined spot is a good thing to the public at large and I'm for it

it's not as simple as personal freedoms when it involved my personal space and health too bc someone around me in a public spot wants to pollute themselves.

I agree when it comes to public places like government buildings and grocery stores. But if I own a restaurant or bar and want to allow smoking, that should fall under personal freedoms, and it would be your choice to eat or drink there. These smoking bans have found there way onto windy beaches, that's a pretty big leap from "no smoking sections"
This assault rifle ban will get the ball rolling.

[spoon]

Racist


When you lost the argument


Nice try scrote

scrote!

ha! congrats on your first original bust!

:lol: who knew you had it in ya! or outside of you...:unsure::thumbdown: abooooo me

as for losing the argument at, including and beyond you being inherently racist...not so much

yah yah yah, black friends got ya! :wink:

[spoon]

I agree when it comes to public places like government buildings and grocery stores. But if I own a restaurant or bar and want to allow smoking, that should fall under personal freedoms, and it would be your choice to eat or drink there. These smoking bans have found there way onto windy beaches, that's a pretty big leap from "no smoking sections"
This assault rifle ban will get the ball rolling.

agreed on an owner having the call overall

and I believe it can be done bc they are out there in NYC and NJ


they get labeled a touch different, but there are smoke houses, cigar rest bars and more like the JR cafe around here called the MonteCristo Lounge (http://www.jrwhippany.com/index.cfm?page=lounge)

[Snoogans]

agreed on an owner having the call overall

and I believe it can be done bc they are out there in NYC and NJ


they get labeled a touch different, but there are smoke houses, cigar rest bars and more like the JR cafe around here called the MonteCristo Lounge (http://www.jrwhippany.com/index.cfm?page=lounge)

the problem is, to get around that you have to have certain features. You have to have a seperate room with an exhaust fan leading directly to outside and the room has to be able to be closed off from the rest of the place. Thats for a restaurant/bar anyway. Not sure if the rules are diff for cigar shops. The problem is, most places around here, you cant afford to do that and most times, dont have the space to do that

[WRESTLINGFAN]

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/383575_10151208741256446_865240883_n.jpg

[spankyfrank]

I'll see your picture.

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s253/spankyfrankiwiz/163320_4124487630956_1827439571_n_zps649099d5.jpg

[brettmojo]

What? A bunch of ex-military guys... Arm 'em... Put them in schools... Post traumatic stress is a myth like evolution or homosexuality not being a choice.

New school uniforms... preschool thru 12th... Kevlar vests sewed into the sweaters.

[spankyfrank]

What? A bunch of ex-military guys... Arm 'em... Put them in schools... Post traumatic stress is a myth like evolution or homosexuality not being a choice.

New school uniforms... preschool thru 12th... Kevlar vests sewed into the sweaters.

I like the way you think.

[Kevin]

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/383575_10151208741256446_865240883_n.jpg

Good try..

You forgot to mention the diff types of devastating bullets you can use in one and not on the other and the other is also much easier to load.

But go ahead, keep side stepping facts.

Facts are for jews and faggots.