mass shooting 100 day challenge

[WRESTLINGFAN]

He admitted it



<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/hXIre_mYfig" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[hanso]

Ha Ant says no one waits for a clip change on these shootings, thats what happened at the Arizona Tucson shooting


have to turn this nut talk off. (o&a replay)

[deliciousV]

Not one thing Obama proposed would have had any effect on the Conn shooting.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Today was typical self promoting and proposing more red tape redundancy and an excuse to spend money

[Snoogans]

Not one thing Obama proposed would have had any effect on the Conn shooting.

NJ laws will also remain COMPLETELY the same as they were before after his changes

[epo]

Not one thing Obama proposed would have had any effect on the Conn shooting.

You are parroting the false construct set forth by the NRA. Congrats.

[deliciousV]

You are parroting the false construct set forth by the NRA. Congrats.

really? Instead of going straight to insults tell me one thing that would have helped.

[Snoogans]

You are parroting the false construct set forth by the NRA. Congrats.

i dont know if this is true or not, but i do know the gun laws in NJ wont be affected one bit. However, NJ already had assault weapons banned. You already couldnt buy an AR 15 here.

[spankyfrank]

really? Instead of going straight to insults tell me one thing that would have helped.

It's not in his nature. You forget he crosses jabs with the best of them.

[spoon]

Fair share, the rich, millionaires and billionaires, balanced approach, comprehensive

Yah sure, but the difference here is nobody is parotting them constantly. You however are.

[spoon]

Another windbag speech and rehashing the same shit.



I would love for someone in the press pool call him out for giving weapons to Mexican drug cartels in which hundreds were massacred with

He doesnt have the balls to mention his adopted hometown has one of the most strict gun laws and more people were killed there last year than coalition troops in Afghanistan.

So wait, u think be doesn't have the balls to rip chicago and its policy, tied to a war he is a key player in bc that makes sense to you? In what world would a politician just come out and have the balls to rip themselves to help get the opposite idea passed? Wow.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

So wait, u think be doesn't have the balls to rip chicago and its policy, tied to a war he is a key player in bc that makes sense to you? In what world would a politician just come out and have the balls to rip themselves to help get the opposite idea passed? Wow.

He could say that with Chicagos strict gun laws it still did not prevent 500 murders.

He wouldnt have to bring up Afghanistan, I was just making a comparison.

Keep up with those draconian gun laws Chicago. I know the real priority is to keep out Chick Fil A.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

http://media.caglecartoons.com/media/cartoons/95/2013/01/15/125585_600.jpg

[spoon]

http://media.caglecartoons.com/media/cartoons/95/2013/01/15/125585_600.jpg

Do u even have a clue on WHAT factually was a part of his executive oders? Judging by your stupid insinuation here, I'll just make the educated guess u got your marching orders from the normal media outlets.

[deliciousV]

Do u even have a clue on WHAT factually was a part of his executive oders? Judging by your stupid insinuation here, I'll just make the educated guess u got your marching orders from the normal media outlets.

Dude, quit pretending that Obama didn't just use a horrible tragedy to further his own agenda. Not one thing in his new plan to end gun violence would have helped in Connecticut, not one. This whole thing is a beginning to something else, there will be another tragedy, after which he will try to add more to what he's doing. Stop pretending that a ban on weapons that were involved in less than 3% of the gun deaths last year is gonna help, you're smarter than that.

[spoon]

Dude, quit pretending that Obama didn't just use a horrible tragedy to further his own agenda. Not one thing in his new plan to end gun violence would have helped in Connecticut, not one. This whole thing is a beginning to something else, there will be another tragedy, after which he will try to add more to what he's doing. Stop pretending that a ban on weapons that were involved in less than 3% of the gun deaths last year is gonna help, you're smarter than that.

No V, you're smarter than that. As i never even touched on what ur post addresses, just as the executive orders, all 23 of them, have little to do with the actual policy u are speaking on.

[spoon]

And for the fucking record, there is a difference between manipulating a tragedy and acting on issues clearly in need of addressing that u believe in. If not now, when? It's not exploitation to work on something that has long been a stance of your party overall and the majority of the public looking for something to be done.

[deliciousV]

No V, you're smarter than that. As i never even touched on what ur post addresses, just as the executive orders, all 23 of them, have little to do with the actual policy u are speaking on.

then why did he use this tragedy, and trot little children out to introduce them?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Do u even have a clue on WHAT factually was a part of his executive oders? Judging by your stupid insinuation here, I'll just make the educated guess u got your marching orders from the normal media outlets.

Yes, I do and it has nothing to do with marching orders. Will you stop with those stupid assumptions?


DV already beat me to it and explained it already.


Why do you have this fixation that the president can do whatever he wants outside of article II


Executive Orders were never intended to bypass congress and make up your own laws.


What if one day there is another GOP president in office and he signs executive orders banning affirmative action, the income tax and, voiding citizenship of anchor babies?


The use of EO's can lead to a slippery slope

[WRESTLINGFAN]

then why did he use this tragedy, and trot little children out to introduce them?

Thats his M.O. Gutter politics and exploiting as much as he can.



Shame on those parents too for allowing them to be used as props.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Sfaccim Jr. signs a bill into law in Albany without even reading it and the State senate and assembly passes it while rushing the bill thru. No time for debate or amendments


I guess they were like Pelosi with Obamacare. You gotta pass the bill in order to see whats in it


That 7 round magazine limit. It includes cops. So the state troopers Cuomo hides behind for protection are included. Cops can't carry guns in or on school grounds This is why these politicians are mocked as knownothings with little or average intelligence at best. Get these laws signed just to be the 1st ones in the country to have more sweeping gun laws.

[A.J.]

http://media.caglecartoons.com/media/cartoons/95/2013/01/15/125585_600.jpg

I thought it was his big, black cock.

[epo]

I thought it was his big, black cock.

WF can't keep his talking points straight.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I thought it was his big, black cock.

He's half white so it might not be as big as we think.

[epo]

really? Instead of going straight to insults tell me one thing that would have helped.

You parroted the talking point of "this rule wouldn't have stopped Sandy Hook" as if that's the only requirement for good rules/legislation.

That's why you presented a false construct. And that's why I reject it.

(Also, if I would've insulted you... You would've known it. Right WrestlingFan?)

[WRESTLINGFAN]

You parroted the talking point of "this rule wouldn't have stopped Sandy Hook" as if that's the only requirement for good rules/legislation.

That's why you presented a false construct. And that's why I reject it.

(Also, if I would've insulted you... You would've known it. Right WrestlingFan?)

Did you even read all 23 E.O's and what it does to doctor patient relationships?

How about this one

Publish a letter from ATF to federally licensed gun dealers providing guidance on how to run background checks for private sellers. (Unless youre a Mestizo who speaks Spanish who happens to be a cartel member)

[epo]

Did you even read all 23 E.O's and what it does to doctor patient relationships?

How about this one

Publish a letter from ATF to federally licensed gun dealers providing guidance on how to run background checks for private sellers. (Unless youre a Mestizo who speaks Spanish who happens to be a cartel member)

Lemme guess, your doctor having the ability to ask you: "Do you have guns in your house?" has your panties in a bunch.

[A.J.]

Lemme guess, your doctor having the ability to ask you: "Do you have guns in your house?" has your panties in a bunch.

Even if you answered that question, wouldn't it be protected by doctor-patient confidentiality? So then what would be the point of the doctor asking such a question?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Lemme guess, your doctor having the ability to ask you: "Do you have guns in your house?" has your panties in a bunch.

Big bro getting bigger

[epo]

Big bro getting bigger

I'm sure Barack Obama himself will be reviewing your medical records.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Launch a national safe and responsible gun ownership campaign.

Thats another one on the EO list.


There are already safety courses etc on a state level. A lot of gun ranges have them in place already.



Another one

Direct the Attorney General to review categories of individuals prohibited from having a gun to make sure dangerous people are not slipping through the cracks.

What he means are ex military, and anyone with a gadsen flag bumper sticker on his F150

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I'm sure Barack Obama himself will be reviewing your medical records.

That won't happen. He doesn't review bills passed by congress.

[epo]

Launch a national safe and responsible gun ownership campaign.

Thats another one on the EO list.


There are already safety courses etc on a state level. A lot of gun ranges have them in place already.



Another one

Direct the Attorney General to review categories of individuals prohibited from having a gun to make sure dangerous people are not slipping through the cracks.

What he means are ex military, and anyone with a gadsen flag bumper sticker on his F150


Increasing awareness and reviewing/updating processs. Sounds like solid operating procedures to me.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

People arent aware that a gun is a weapon?


I dont like the idea of increasing an already expanded gov't tracking system.

[deliciousV]

You parroted the talking point of "this rule wouldn't have stopped Sandy Hook" as if that's the only requirement for good rules/legislation.

That's why you presented a false construct. And that's why I reject it.

(Also, if I would've insulted you... You would've known it. Right WrestlingFan?)

No, the "false construct" was announcing to the world that because of Sandy Hook he was assigning big Joe to bring him suggestions on how to prevent further tragedies, and then proposing a list that wouldn't have helped. Why do you want to act like these things are unrelated? He used this event to set in motion something he was likely going to do anyway. Those children he marched out, who wrote him after Sandy Hook tie it up in a neat little bow.
That being said, I think that some of the things he is doing are good. But I stand by the statement that none of it would've helped in the incedent he's using to launch this whole thing, and since you can't disprove that, you just call me a parrot. Childish

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Never let a crisis go to waste as Rahm said.

[epo]

I didn't know that verbs were construed as insults.

I generally employ nouns for that. (Example: WrestlingFan is a racist.)

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I didn't know that verbs were construed as insults.

I generally employ nouns for that. (Example: WrestlingFan is a racist.)

Epo is an anti-semite

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Pseudo intellectuals like Frank Rich should stick to doing theatre and fil critiques.


His latest column shows that he lacks any thought or analysis comparing people opposed to more strict gun control to people who wanted slavery to continue

[epo]

Pseudo intellectuals like Frank Rich should stick to doing theatre and fil critiques.


His latest column shows that he lacks any thought or analysis comparing people opposed to more strict gun control to people who wanted slavery to continue

When you provide your low-grade analysis of actual thinkers you should try to include a link to the source document.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

When you provide your low-grade analysis of actual thinkers you should try to include a link to the source document.

What makes Rich an actual thinker? He thinks he knows more than you because he lives in a bubble known as Manhattan and youre in some podunk upper midwest state?


Are you just being lazy like Obama is?





Psst. He admitted he was.



Which is it? When I post links you complain, when I dont you still complain


http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2013/01/frank-rich-gun-control-needs-more-than-obama.html

[hanso]

Even if you answered that question, wouldn't it be protected by doctor-patient confidentiality? So then what would be the point of the doctor asking such a question?

Have you seen all the side effects from some drugs? Some claim feeling suicidal

[hanso]

This bill and EO's are both useless and outrageous according to the right who are having it both ways and have much cause for concern.

The reaction from some are just laughable.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/s480x480/67688_561691910526697_1075375815_n.jpg

[A.J.]

Have you seen all the side effects from some drugs? Some claim feeling suicidal

So I guess the govenment should also regulate the sale of rope.

[Snoogans]

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/s480x480/67688_561691910526697_1075375815_n.jpg

under the current proposal, the top gun would be banned. Its not about how the gun looks. Any rifle that is semi automatic is going to be banned. Most Semi Auto shotguns will also fall under it

[spoon]

Yes, I do and it has nothing to do with marching orders. Will you stop with those stupid assumptions?


DV already beat me to it and explained it already.


Why do you have this fixation that the president can do whatever he wants outside of article II


Executive Orders were never intended to bypass congress and make up your own laws.


What if one day there is another GOP president in office and he signs executive orders banning affirmative action, the income tax and, voiding citizenship of anchor babies?


The use of EO's can lead to a slippery slope

so are you trying to say he's making a gun ban via the EO and other GOP presidents didn't use the EO either? Unlike you, I didn't go apeshit on the EOs of the past that are usually easy takes and policy of education on current topics/concerns. Usually easily agreeable things that presidents, congress and the senate can nod to and have very little impact on highly debated policy. There is no way any of your takes would happen with a GOP president, just as a full gun ban or anything close would for Obama. Sorry, it's just bullshit scare tactics and clouding the argument in an attempt to make Obama look like (warning talking point ahead) a tyrant.

[Snoogans]

So I guess the govenment should also regulate the sale of rope.

i dont think he was sayin that. I understand his point that it might be a good idea to have a dr ask a person if they have guns or be able to check before he gives them something that may make them suicidal

[spoon]

Did you even read all 23 E.O's and what it does to doctor patient relationships?

How about this one

Publish a letter from ATF to federally licensed gun dealers providing guidance on how to run background checks for private sellers. (Unless youre a Mestizo who speaks Spanish who happens to be a cartel member)

sure did, but thanks for pointing out how stupid your attacks on the EOs are

watch out for those crazy docs who want to steal our guns! TYRANTS!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

sure did, but thanks for pointing out how stupid your attacks on the EOs are

watch out for those crazy docs who want to steal our guns! TYRANTS!

As predicted you would fall in line with these E.O.'s


We should be concerned with those crazy docs giving out Xanax and Prozac like candy dispensers

[spoon]

Launch a national safe and responsible gun ownership campaign.

Thats another one on the EO list.


There are already safety courses etc on a state level. A lot of gun ranges have them in place already.



Another one

Direct the Attorney General to review categories of individuals prohibited from having a gun to make sure dangerous people are not slipping through the cracks.

What he means are ex military, and anyone with a gadsen flag bumper sticker on his F150

looks like someone is finally reading the EOs...and making VERY sensible takes on them too!

watch out F150 drivers!

[Chigworthy]

under the current proposal, the top gun would be banned. Its not about how the gun looks. Any rifle that is semi automatic is going to be banned. Most Semi Auto shotguns will also fall under it

I think the point is that the masses that don't know basic gun terminology would support legislation that talks about assault weapons without realizing that farmer john's varminter would also be banned. If they tried to sell an assault weapon ban with picture of a wood-stock 10/22, it would not invoke the fear response and garner support.

[spoon]

Increasing awareness and reviewing/updating processs. Sounds like solid operating procedures to me.

no no, EOs passed by and for his Tyrannical Rule!

and make up your mind GOP talking points memos...is he a tyrant, the messiah, a commie or from Africa? I can't keep up with all these flattering takes that aren't even close to ridiculous angles on simply policy disagreements.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

no no, EOs passed by and for his Tyrannical Rule!

and make up your mind GOP talking points memos...is he a tyrant, the messiah, a commie or from Africa? I can't keep up with all these flattering takes that aren't even close to ridiculous angles on simply policy disagreements.

How many times must you be educated on what EO's were supposed to be meant for?


Also How many times have I said that I said I am not a republican.


Finally how many times have I said hes not a commie. Hes a corporatist shill.

[Snoogans]

I think the point is that the masses that don't know basic gun terminology would support legislation that talks about assault weapons without realizing that farmer john's varminter would also be banned. If they tried to sell an assault weapon ban with picture of a wood-stock 10/22, it would not invoke the fear response and garner support.

i get that, and i understand, but they use misinformation. thats what gets me so annoyed. they will tell you the top gun isnt being banned, only the bottom one is to try to get you to side with them. No one just uses facts anymore

[spoon]

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/s480x480/67688_561691910526697_1075375815_n.jpg

yeah, now he's just parroting shit here in the past too!

full circle of life baby!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

yeah, now he's just parroting shit here in the past too!

full circle of life baby!

Of course your feeble mind is void of analysis.


Watch out. Sharpspooner is an expert on weapons.

[spoon]

As predicted you would fall in line with these E.O.'s


We should be concerned with those crazy docs giving out Xanax and Prozac like candy dispensers

predicted?! I fucking said it you assclown. The fact it took you this long to actually read it before making comments (and you KNOW you did that) is hilarious. And docs use meds as a crutch to actual overall treatment for fucking decades now. It's PART of a bigger problem, but I guess I gave the impression out of nowhere for you to type such a foolish tie in right!? Stay on topic shit face.

[Snoogans]

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/s480x480/67688_561691910526697_1075375815_n.jpg

id also like to point out that these really arent the same weapon. The hand grip on the front would allow most people to hold the thing more steady and the scope would allow them to be far more accurate. They would have the same ballistic performance, but you would be alot more deadly with the second gun, plus it would take less time to change the magazines in the 2nd gun.

[spoon]

Of course your feeble mind is void of analysis.


Watch out. Sharpspooner is an expert on weapons.

wow even you insults lack originality

you rehash almost every angle or take said to you back and it's fucking stupid on an bewildering level

nevermind WF, great points! Sharpspooner, ha!

:wallbash:

[WRESTLINGFAN]

predicted?! I fucking said it you assclown. The fact it took you this long to actually read it before making comments (and you KNOW you did that) is hilarious. And docs use meds as a crutch to actual overall treatment for fucking decades now. It's PART of a bigger problem, but I guess I gave the impression out of nowhere for you to type such a foolish tie in right!? Stay on topic shit face.

I knew you had an erection the day Obama had those kids as props and said that he was going to sign 23 EO's


You worship this big government overreach when it suits your agenda. You are such an inconsistent fuck.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

id also like to point out that these really arent the same weapon. The hand grip on the front would allow most people to hold the thing more steady and the scope would allow them to be far more accurate. They would have the same ballistic performance, but you would be alot more deadly with the second gun, plus it would take less time to change the magazines in the 2nd gun.

Its the same weapon. Its just minor cosmetics. They basically do the same thing. Both use the same rounds.


Rifles that use wood stocks can still be magazine fed. I think a lot of people who have never shot a rifle believe that the top is just some single shot bolt action or flintlock.

[spoon]

I knew you had an erection the day Obama had those kids as props and said that he was going to sign 23 EO's


You worship this big government overreach when it suits your agenda. You are such an inconsistent fuck.

inconsistent huh? not once have I got on any prez for their EOs, but hell, why make sense? In fact, I don't even agree with all 23 of the EOs, but again, just make shit up to have SOME argument at all and derail the false outrage on the EOs and making them out to be something completely different than they are bc it's clearly all over the conserv media outlets. do as your told WF, then tell everyone else they're pawns or for big gov.

[spoon]

Its the same weapon. Its just minor cosmetics. They basically do the same thing. Both use the same rounds.


Rifles that use wood stocks can still be magazine fed. I think a lot of people who have never shot a rifle believe that the top is just some single shot bolt action or flintlock.

you know what else is the same, your post with the picture you stole from some bat shit poster on another blog...you know, like your own post here

you should do it again here in a few weeks! go for the trifecta

good news is when you're pissed, I usually know good policy is getting passed or close

[WRESTLINGFAN]

inconsistent huh? not once have I got on any prez for their EOs, but hell, why make sense? In fact, I don't even agree with all 23 of the EOs, but again, just make shit up to have SOME argument at all and derail the false outrage on the EOs and making them out to be something completely different than they are bc it's clearly all over the conserv media outlets. do as your told WF, then tell everyone else they're pawns or for big gov.

Man, you really are pathetic just saying oh its conservative media outlets.


I saw those EO's and formed my own opinions.

[spoon]

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

[WRESTLINGFAN]

you know what else is the same, your post with the picture you stole from some bat shit poster on another blog...you know, like your own post here

you should do it again here in a few weeks! go for the trifecta

good news is when you're pissed, I usually know good policy is getting passed or close

Seeing you post that this is good policy is making me more pissed.

[Snoogans]

Its the same weapon. Its just minor cosmetics. They basically do the same thing. Both use the same rounds.


Rifles that use wood stocks can still be magazine fed. I think a lot of people who have never shot a rifle believe that the top is just some single shot bolt action or flintlock.

the top rifles magazine isnt as quick to eject. Certain guns take longer on that. For example, its alot quicker to change the mag on an M4Carbine than it is on an AK cause you have to angle in and out the magazine on an ak and on the M4 it drops and loads straight in. Its a quicker change.

As for the bolded point, NO, thats not true. Its ALOT harder to shoot a gun accurately using the fixed sights of the gun and no zoom than it is to use a magnifying scope. The performance of the bottom weapon would be alot better with the 2 guns set up like they are

[spoon]

Seeing you post that this is good policy is making me more pissed.

see, there's that wf originality!

:lol:

[A.J.]

i dont think he was sayin that. I understand his point that it might be a good idea to have a dr ask a person if they have guns or be able to check before he gives them something that may make them suicidal

Yes but, again, wouldn't that violent patient confidentiality?

EDIT: Nevermind: I misread the original post.

But even so, there other ways to kill oneself or others. So having guns prior to being proscribed something really wouldn't matter then.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

I had the same reaction when I saw those EO's.


Yes, Eric Holder is going to crackdown on violations of federal drug laws.


Unless you live South of the Border

[spoon]

Yes but, again, wouldn't that violent patient confidentiality?

that situation IS between a patient and the doctor

not sure how pat confidentiality or hippa comes into play there at all?

it just allows both the doc and patient to better tailor the safest plan of action to treat mental health issues

[Snoogans]

Yes but, again, wouldn't that violent patient confidentiality?

well no, cause the doctor isnt telling anyone. If the doctor had access to a system with gun owners say, and could check if the patient was one, thats just for the patient. He isnt calling the cops on them, it just might change how he medicates the person

[A.J.]

See my above edit -- I read that wrong. I thought he was saying a doctor would be forced to report a potential violent and/disturbed person.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

the top rifles magazine isnt as quick to eject. Certain guns take longer on that. For example, its alot quicker to change the mag on an M4Carbine than it is on an AK cause you have to angle in and out the magazine on an ak and on the M4 it drops and loads straight in. Its a quicker change.

As for the bolded point, NO, thats not true. Its ALOT harder to shoot a gun accurately using the fixed sights of the gun and no zoom than it is to use a magnifying scope. The performance of the bottom weapon would be alot better with the 2 guns set up like they are

A good shooter would be able to change those magazines quickly. Lanza went to the range with his mother so if he used a wood stocked rifle he would be able to reload and lock


For long ranges I agree that its easier to hit a target with a scope. However with these school shootings the victims are shot at close range.

[spoon]

I had the same reaction when I saw those EO's.


Yes, Eric Holder is going to crackdown on violations of federal drug laws.


Unless you live South of the Border

yes, there's an issue that hasn't been completely played out yet that should be used to stop ANYTHING else from ever getting done

agree or not with that issue, surely it should stop any reform or change to policy ANYWHERE else!

great take

hilarious breakdown on why you think we shouldn't crack down, bc you believe there is another issue that needs correcting. I guess it's only important pending on what side you agree with. so fucking comically stupid to even bring it up...you have no other way of discourse do you?

fuckwad fool it is

yours in posting,

sharpspooner

[Snoogans]

A good shooter would be able to change those magazines quickly. Lanza went to the range with his mother so if he used a wood stocked rifle he would be able to reload and lock


For long ranges I agree that its easier to hit a target with a scope. However with these school shootings the victims are shot at close range.

ok im not sayin someone with no experience is as fast as someone with experience. But the actually act of what you have to do to release the magazine on certain rifles takes longer by a few seconds than other rifles. Yes, its just a few seconds, but not all guns have the same drop mechanism. Some guns you have to hit a button and pull the mag out. Some guns, hitting the button will drop the mag without pulling. Some guns have easier feeds to line up the mag into, everything isnt the same, even on the same caliber weapons from the same company. Thats the point.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

yes, there's an issue that hasn't been completely played out yet that should be used to stop ANYTHING else from ever getting done

agree or not with that issue, surely it should stop any reform or change to policy ANYWHERE else!

great take

hilarious breakdown on why you think we shouldn't crack down, bc you believe there is another issue that needs correcting. I guess it's only important pending on what side you agree with. so fucking comically stupid to even bring it up...you have no other way of discourse do you?

fuckwad fool it is

yours in posting,

sharpspooner

How about just enforcing the thousands of laws that are already exist? For the ones that need tweaking just amend them slightly.


I don't need the federal government telling me that an AR-15 or Bolt action is not a toy

[WRESTLINGFAN]

ok im not sayin someone with no experience is as fast as someone with experience. But the actually act of what you have to do to release the magazine on certain rifles takes longer by a few seconds than other rifles. Yes, its just a few seconds, but not all guns have the same drop mechanism. Some guns you have to hit a button and pull the mag out. Some guns, hitting the button will drop the mag without pulling. Some guns have easier feeds to line up the mag into, everything isnt the same, even on the same caliber weapons from the same company. Thats the point.

Im not disagreeing with you on those points. However the weapon of choice used, the user probably knows the ins and outs of shooting reloading etc.


I was a rifleman in the Marine Corps so I used the M-16A2 as my service rifle. Even before firing the 1st live round I knew how to fieldstrip and put it back together.


I wouldn't be surprised if Lanza did sort of a dry run with an empty magazine to see how many shots he could get off and how long it would take to change mags


Even if he didnt have a bushmaster he could still do a lot of damage double fisting sidearms

[hanso]

Gun Appreciation Day is on the 19th which coincides with MLK day on 21st. The guy behind it Larry Ward it is said to have extremist ties.

He is one of those to make an asinine statement over this whole matter. Saying MLK would agree with him and the slaves would have made out Ok with guns.

[spoon]

How about just enforcing the thousands of laws that are already exist? For the ones that need tweaking just amend them slightly.


I don't need the federal government telling me that an AR-15 or Bolt action is not a toy

oh sure, that sounds much easier

and great, wf doesn't need a toy vs gun update, but posts pics multiple times to show the rest of the world useless memes he steals from other blogs...and that's the policy too, to help people identify which gun is which.

yeah! I can't wait to get the new assault weapon memory game! teach the whole family with fun thanks to the US government's new policy put through via EO!

:wallbash:

[Snoogans]

Im not disagreeing with you on those points. However the weapon of choice used, the user probably knows the ins and outs of shooting reloading etc.


I was a rifleman in the Marine Corps so I used the M-16A2 as my service rifle. Even before firing the 1st live round I knew how to fieldstrip and put it back together.


I wouldn't be surprised if Lanza did sort of a dry run with an empty magazine to see how many shots he could get off and how long it would take to change mags


Even if he didnt have a bushmaster he could still do a lot of damage double fisting sidearms

again you are changing the point. I didnt deny any of it. But it means those weapons as they are in the picture are not the same. Thats the point. And also, this might help. Im gonna put a video of something you can put on an AR 15 that would would NOT be able to put on a regular stock rifle, even if it is a semi, that makes it far more deadly and is legal in places the guns are legal:
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/I6BFarrICWs" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

the 2 guns in your picture balistically are the same, but the bottom one has alot more things you can do to it to make it different than the top one does

[spoon]

Gun Appreciation Day is on the 19th which coincides with MLK day on 21st. The guy behind Larry Ward it is said to have extremist ties.

He is one of those to make an asinine statement over this whole matter. saying MLK would agree with him and the slaves would have made out Ok with guns.

both of those I caught on Stewart and it was stupid to a WF level

unreal in fact

by extremist, what exactly do you mean? I know little on him at this point past his absolutely hilarious statements.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

again you are changing the point. I didnt deny any of it. But it means those weapons as they are in the picture are not the same. Thats the point. And also, this might help. Im gonna put a video of something you can put on an AR 15 that would would NOT be able to put on a regular stock rifle, even if it is a semi, that makes it far more deadly and is legal in places the guns are legal:
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/I6BFarrICWs" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

the 2 guns in your picture balistically are the same, but the bottom one has alot more things you can do to it to make it different than the top one does

I see your point about the bottom being able to have a lot of modifications. However it probably wouldn't be impossible to modify a traditional wood stock rifle. It might be a little more difficult but it could be done.


For the capacity of mags. I think 10 is the limit that Obama wants. I think I already said this but its worth repeating. A 20 round mag can be made very simply.

Whatever these politicians propose, it's not going to change human behavior. Ammo is flying off the shelves and theres another Lanza, Holmes, Loughner etc. who will be buying them.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

both of those I caught on Stewart and it was stupid to a WF level

unreal in fact

by extremist, what exactly do you mean? I know little on him at this point past his absolutely hilarious statements.



Indeed you do.

[Syd]

So because a law isn't 100% effective, it shouldn't be a law?

[hanso]

Its the same weapon. Its just minor cosmetics. They basically do the same thing. Both use the same rounds.


Rifles that use wood stocks can still be magazine fed. I think a lot of people who have never shot a rifle believe that the top is just some single shot bolt action or flintlock.

Flintlock? Who would think that? Why are they passing what looks like a bolt action off as a clip gun?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Flintlock? Who would think that? Why are they passing what looks like a bolt action off as a clip gun?

A lot of people think something like an stock AR-15 is an automatic weapon.

[Snoogans]

I see your point about the bottom being able to have a lot of modifications. However it probably wouldn't be impossible to modify a traditional wood stock rifle. It might be a little more difficult but it could be done.


For the capacity of mags. I think 10 is the limit that Obama wants. I think I already said this but its worth repeating. A 20 round mag can be made very simply.

Whatever these politicians propose, it's not going to change human behavior. Ammo is flying off the shelves and theres another Lanza, Holmes, Loughner etc. who will be buying them.

thats not the point though. the point is legality. See before the 10 mag limit, some places had 30. So you could take 2 15 round mags, tape them together as you'd do, and it would be allowed. Now, with a 10 round limit, if you were to do that, its a pretty serious felony. Does that deter someone who wants to kill, obviously not. But it would greatly reduce the demand for larger than 10 round magazines, which would bring down production (not gonna spend money making things people wont buy) which would make them harder to get for criminals just by supply.

The main thing that has most people pissed off is the new clip limit now applies to handguns, and most people who own semi auto handguns in the US have capacities over 10, some as many as 17

[Snoogans]

Flintlock? Who would think that? Why are they passing what looks like a bolt action off as a clip gun?

its just for style. something important people dont know about guns. As you go up in capability of a weapon, it retains its abilities from the previous. So if you have a rifle that is semi auto, it retains the ability to function as a bolt action rifle. So sometimes as they go up, people want a classic feel, so they design the guns to look like old rifles but with modern capabilities, its just for the look.

The reason for this is tactics. Say you have an "assault" rifle, but you wanna make it as quiet as possible. So you put on a suppressor and fire subsonic ammo (that wont go as fast as the speed of sound) to keep the sound down. but that ammo doesnt build enough pressure to cycle action, so the gun has to be able to operate as a bolt action. Because of that, you could make them look like almost anything. You can make a gun that looks and could operate the same as a musket but has a clip feed and fires at a rate of 900 RPM if you wanted to

[hanso]

both of those I caught on Stewart and it was stupid to a WF level

unreal in fact

by extremist, what exactly do you mean? I know little on him at this point past his absolutely hilarious statements.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/gun-appreciation-day-organizer-extremists/story?id=18199040

Went to here to find that
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/18/gun-appreciation-day-_n_2502568.html

I thought the guy might be a politican but google just shows him as some pro gun guy.

Stuff like this comes up and sheep just follow

[Snoogans]

A lot of people think something like an stock AR-15 is an automatic weapon.

well, in fairness, it is. they have just blocked the mechanism to make it fire in full auto. But its very easy, if you wanted to, to take that block off. An AR 15, stock, is essentially an automatic weapon. Which i believe is the real base of why government are so afraid to have them for sale

[deliciousV]

So because a law isn't 100% effective, it shouldn't be a law?

crime stats seem to indicate that it's not only ineffective, but has the opposite effect. What it definately does is put decent, law abiding people at a disadvantage with criminals, call me a parrot and accuse me of using bad stats, I don't care, you guys want what you want, you can't use any true stats to back it up, so you paint everybody who believes otherwise as gun nuts, and Alex Jone's crazies. Try backing up your bullshit.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

thats not the point though. the point is legality. See before the 10 mag limit, some places had 30. So you could take 2 15 round mags, tape them together as you'd do, and it would be allowed. Now, with a 10 round limit, if you were to do that, its a pretty serious felony. Does that deter someone who wants to kill, obviously not. But it would greatly reduce the demand for larger than 10 round magazines, which would bring down production (not gonna spend money making things people wont buy) which would make them harder to get for criminals just by supply.

The main thing that has most people pissed off is the new clip limit now applies to handguns, and most people who own semi auto handguns in the US have capacities over 10, some as many as 17

There are always going to be end arounds. People can carry more mags. Say for example a shooter uses Camo pants. Each leg has cargo pockets on the side so he can carry at least 3 mags in each pocket.


Also a shooter like Lanza and Holmes will choose areas where there's a lot of people to shoot at like a theatre or classroom. In a classroom for example if hes picking off people and standing by the door its almost impossible to escape unless its thru a window.


A shooter can also use tactics along with shooting skills.

[hanso]

A lot of people think something like an stock AR-15 is an automatic weapon.

It goes back to the assault weapons bill that was allowed to lapse. I think most know it's a semi it's just semantics.

[Snoogans]

There are always going to be end arounds. People can carry more mags. Say for example a shooter uses Camo pants. Each leg has cargo pockets on the side so he can carry at least 3 mags in each pocket.


Also a shooter like Lanza and Holmes will choose areas where there's a lot of people to shoot at like a theatre or classroom. In a classroom for example if hes picking off people and standing by the door its almost impossible to escape unless its thru a window.


A shooter can also use tactics along with shooting skills.

so we should just not do it? Just let people have 200 round drum magazines because they can just get 20 10 round magazines anyway? Thats the thing. You make points, and some times they are BS or agenda driven, but sometimes I can see the actual point you are tryin to make, its not all stupid like most people think. But then you say this shit and you offer no actual opinion. What would you do, just allow everything? You have to at least see why thats kinda dumb, right?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

so we should just not do it? Just let people have 200 round drum magazines because they can just get 20 10 round magazines anyway? Thats the thing. You make points, and some times they are BS or agenda driven, but sometimes I can see the actual point you are tryin to make, its not all stupid like most people think. But then you say this shit and you offer no actual opinion. What would you do, just allow everything? You have to at least see why thats kinda dumb, right?


All I am saying is that there are always end arounds and loopholes. People will always find them.


I know its a different topic, however I'm sure people who make over 400k will hire accountants to find loopholes to avoid paying the higher tax rate.

I never advocated for allowing everything for example an RPG. I've already stated that no sane politician would ever run on that platform.

[Snoogans]

crime stats seem to indicate that it's not only ineffective, but has the opposite effect. What it definately does is put decent, law abiding people at a disadvantage with criminals, call me a parrot and accuse me of using bad stats, I don't care, you guys want what you want, you can't use any true stats to back it up, so you paint everybody who believes otherwise as gun nuts, and Alex Jone's crazies. Try backing up your bullshit.

i wanna say one thing to this. Other than in your own home where someone might break in (which, even with you having a shotgun vs them having what would have been a legally purchased semi auto rifle would give you a HUGE advantage), what situations are you around a place where you feel like there is going to be criminal activity that you would NEED a semi rifle for where you are not also taking part in criminal activities? Seriously, bro, have you ever been around criminals? Throw out the very rare occasion of a mass shooting and lets focus on 99.9% of criminals that would be using a gun against you. You are either A)doing gang activities, B) helping sneak people or drugs from mexico to the US, or C)having a dream

Even in Newark, or Camden NJ or Detroit, if you are an innocent walking down the street and someone robs you or something, its not gonna be with a fuckin .223 long rifle. No street hoods are walking around taking wallets with a fuckin AR 15. These laws have NOTHING to do with 99.9% of the things that you would need a gun to protect yourself with.

[Snoogans]

All I am saying is that there are always end arounds and loopholes. Sometimes the loopholes are unintended.


I never advocated for allowing everything for example an RPG. I've already stated that no sane politician would ever run on that platform.

what do you propose? Im here, not calling names, we are having a debate here thats going well with no fighting. Im asking you legit, cause I dont know, what is your position other than you think these are bad ideas. What would President WF do?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

i wanna say one thing to this. Other than in your own home where someone might break in (which, even with you having a shotgun vs them having what would have been a legally purchased semi auto rifle would give you a HUGE advantage), what situations are you around a place where you feel like there is going to be criminal activity that you would NEED a semi rifle for where you are not also taking part in criminal activities? Seriously, bro, have you ever been around criminals? Throw out the very rare occasion of a mass shooting and lets focus on 99.9% of criminals that would be using a gun against you. You are either A)doing gang activities, B) helping sneak people or drugs from mexico to the US, or C)having a dream

Even in Newark, or Camden NJ or Detroit, if you are an innocent walking down the street and someone robs you or something, its not gonna be with a fuckin .223 long rifle. No street hoods are walking around taking wallets with a fuckin AR 15. These laws have NOTHING to do with 99.9% of the things that you would need a gun to protect yourself with.

People do sport shooting/range firing with AR-15's and such.


I think 99.9% of gun owners would not carry a rifle in Camden. Its much easier to take out a sidearm and defend yourself.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

what do you propose? Im here, not calling names, we are having a debate here thats going well with no fighting. Im asking you legit, cause I dont know, what is your position other than you think these are bad ideas. What would President WF do?

President WF would leave these gun control measures up to the states. What works for NYC doesn't always work for Montana. Even though I disagree with Chicago's gun laws if they want to have them that's out of my power.


I believe that the bill of rights puts limits on the federal gov't in regards to all amendments. I don't favor incorporation.

[Snoogans]

People do sport shooting/range firing with AR-15's and such.


I think 99.9% of gun owners would not carry a rifle in Camden. Its much easier to take out a sidearm and defend yourself.

you can put in a thing that allows ranges to have them for people to go rent and fire. I dont see why that would be an issue if they are a licensed gun range anyway.

the point is, he was sayin it would leave him unable to defend against criminals. Im asking him what criminal thing he would have to defend against that would leave him NEEDING a semi rifle if he isnt already committing crimes himself, in which case he could probably find one already

[Snoogans]

President WF would leave these gun control measures up to the states. What works for NYC doesn't always work for Montana. Even though I disagree with Chicago's gun laws if they want to have them that's out of my power.


I believe that the bill of rights puts limits on the federal gov't in regards to all amendments. I don't favor incorporation.

ok but see you still have to set a baseline law. You cant just say ill leave it up to the states and have nothing. What if one state decides they wanna let people have RPGs? You have already seen in colorado and washington that you dont need a legislator to get something on the vote and into law. So you have to have some baseline federal rules, however low they are, and then the states can make their own choices beyond that. I wanna hear those baseline rules.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

ok but see you still have to set a baseline law. You cant just say ill leave it up to the states and have nothing. What if one state decides they wanna let people have RPGs? You have already seen in colorado and washington that you dont need a legislator to get something on the vote and into law. So you have to have some baseline federal rules, however low they are, and then the states can make their own choices beyond that. I wanna hear those baseline rules.

There's no way any sane gun owner would advocate for that or any sane elected official would run on that platform.

RPG's would be a weapon for offense. Legal gun owners advocate their right to carry or keep a gun at home for defense.

Look at it this way. If someone tries to enter a house and say hypothetically RPGs were allowed. He would wind up blowing up the car in front of his house or the house across the street. If its in a rural area he might blow up his barn and kill the livestock.

[Snoogans]

There's no way any sane gun owner would advocate for that or any sane elected official would run on that platform.

RPG's would be a weapon for offense. Legal gun owners advocate their right to carry or keep a gun at home for defense.

Look at it this way. If someone tries to enter a house and say hypothetically RPGs were allowed. He would wind up blowing up the car in front of his house or the house across the street. If its in a rural area he might blow up his barn and kill the livestock.

some people might like to go to the range and shoot one though, cause its fun.

But again you missed the point. You cant use the fact that its highly unlikely that it would happen as an excuse to not have an opinion. Regardless of the fact it probably wouldnt happen, the federal government would still HAVE TO HAVE SOME BASELINE GUN LAW. You can just say according to the feds, EVERYTHING is legal and its up to the states, or yes, you eventually would get gun nuts to legalize things they shouldnt. PEOPLE DO THAT.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

some people might like to go to the range and shoot one though, cause its fun.

But again you missed the point. You cant use the fact that its highly unlikely that it would happen as an excuse to not have an opinion. Regardless of the fact it probably wouldnt happen, the federal government would still HAVE TO HAVE SOME BASELINE GUN LAW. You can just say according to the feds, EVERYTHING is legal and its up to the states, or yes, you eventually would get gun nuts to legalize things they shouldnt. PEOPLE DO THAT.

There are baseline laws. A basic one is that its a crime to use a gun for murder, robbery etc. This is on all levels of government.



Each state has their own baseline laws. All I'm saying is that a top down approach isn't needed as it just causes redundancy

[hanso]

He is on to something most gun owners who were polled agree

[deliciousV]

i wanna say one thing to this. Other than in your own home where someone might break in (which, even with you having a shotgun vs them having what would have been a legally purchased semi auto rifle would give you a HUGE advantage), what situations are you around a place where you feel like there is going to be criminal activity that you would NEED a semi rifle for where you are not also taking part in criminal activities? Seriously, bro, have you ever been around criminals? Throw out the very rare occasion of a mass shooting and lets focus on 99.9% of criminals that would be using a gun against you. You are either A)doing gang activities, B) helping sneak people or drugs from mexico to the US, or C)having a dream

Even in Newark, or Camden NJ or Detroit, if you are an innocent walking down the street and someone robs you or something, its not gonna be with a fuckin .223 long rifle. No street hoods are walking around taking wallets with a fuckin AR 15. These laws have NOTHING to do with 99.9% of the things that you would need a gun to protect yourself with.

plenty of hunters use semi auto, you ever hunt deer? If you miss with your first shot you won't get another off if you have to work the bolt to get another round in. Those fuckers are fast.
What I don't want to do is even let the head of the camel into the tent, as the old saying goes. This ban won't help in the least, for the countless reasons us parrots have stated, and a couple of mass shootings down the road the rest of the camel will work it's way into the tent. I have no problem making people jump thru more hoops, I have no problem with having Dr's gather more evidence and matching the meds to the sitiuation, I don't even mind some restrictions on clip sizes. I just don't like restrictions on what kinds of guns people can own, other than full auto and up. It doesn't work, I'll be the bumper stricker and say it, criminals don't obey the law, they're only taking these guns away from honest people.

[spoon]

There are baseline laws. A basic one is that its a crime to use a gun for murder, robbery etc. This is on all levels of government.



Each state has their own baseline laws. All I'm saying is that a top down approach isn't needed as it just causes redundancy

redundancy, baseline

same thing to wf

[Snoogans]

plenty of hunters use semi auto, you ever hunt deer? If you miss with your first shot you won't get another off if you have to work the bolt to get another round in. Those fuckers are fast.
What I don't want to do is even let the head of the camel into the tent, as the old saying goes. This ban won't help in the least, for the countless reasons us parrots have stated, and a couple of mass shootings down the road the rest of the camel will work it's way into the tent. I have no problem making people jump thru more hoops, I have no problem with having Dr's gather more evidence and matching the meds to the sitiuation, I don't even mind some restrictions on clip sizes. I just don't like restrictions on what kinds of guns people can own, other than full auto and up. It doesn't work, I'll be the bumper stricker and say it, criminals don't obey the law, they're only taking these guns away from honest people.

ok thats completely different. I addressed you sayin the ban would leave you vulnerable to criminals. Deer hunters are not criminals. And you should maybe then hit the deer first shot, or fail at that attempt. Besides, a good shooter can work the bolt and chamber a round in 2 seconds. Its not like it takes 4 min to do it. Just aim better, thats part of the sport. Some people kill deer with a crossbow. You dont hear them whining about we need automatic crossbows cause it takes to long to load a normal one

[spoon]

plenty of hunters use semi auto, you ever hunt deer? If you miss with your first shot you won't get another off if you have to work the bolt to get another round in. Those fuckers are fast.
What I don't want to do is even let the head of the camel into the tent, as the old saying goes. This ban won't help in the least, for the countless reasons us parrots have stated, and a couple of mass shootings down the road the rest of the camel will work it's way into the tent. I have no problem making people jump thru more hoops, I have no problem with having Dr's gather more evidence and matching the meds to the sitiuation, I don't even mind some restrictions on clip sizes. I just don't like restrictions on what kinds of guns people can own, other than full auto and up. It doesn't work, I'll be the bumper stricker and say it, criminals don't obey the law, they're only taking these guns away from honest people.

if you miss the deer with your highly powered rifle on the first shot, you don't deserve the kill and too bad for you...

your argument that guns are just taken from honest people advocates that nobody should have them, or in the least very dangerous or more automatic based weapons

you're at least rationale that something needs to be done, and again I'm not for a complete ban, much less most things, but we need adjustments to our current issues

[deliciousV]

ok thats completely different. I addressed you sayin the ban would leave you vulnerable to criminals. Deer hunters are not criminals. And you should maybe then hit the deer first shot, or fail at that attempt. Besides, a good shooter can work the bolt and chamber a round in 2 seconds. Its not like it takes 4 min to do it. Just aim better, thats part of the sport. Some people kill deer with a crossbow. You dont hear them whining about we need automatic crossbows cause it takes to long to load a normal one

I'm not whining about anything, I don't own a semi auto, I have a pump action Mossberg 12 ga. But I do know plenty of good men who own them for the purpose of hunting, they have never pointed them at another human, nor would they, if you broke into their house they'd greet you with a pistol. My point is that allowing no full automatic weapons is a good enough baseline, if we let them ban all semi auto rifles, after a few more mass shootings, which are predominantly done with handguns, they'll start working to get rid of those.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

This is why private ownership is needed. To keep away the savages. Not just for home use.


I would have loved to seen some animal just try to loot that one store and get a bullet thru his worthless head.


<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/tgCiC6qTtjs" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[spoon]

sigh

[Snoogans]

I'm not whining about anything, I don't own a semi auto, I have a pump action Mossberg 12 ga. But I do know plenty of good men who own them for the purpose of hunting, they have never pointed them at another human, nor would they, if you broke into their house they'd greet you with a pistol. My point is that allowing no full automatic weapons is a good enough baseline, if we let them ban all semi auto rifles, after a few more mass shootings, which are predominantly done with handguns, they'll start working to get rid of those.

that may be your overall point. I asked about a specific thing where you said this could leave you more vulnerable to criminals. You still havent said any way that that would be possible

[Snoogans]

This is why private ownership is needed. To keep away the savages. Not just for home use.


I would have loved to seen some animal just try to loot that one store and get a bullet thru his worthless head.


<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/tgCiC6qTtjs" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

all the guns i saw on the roof would still be legal

[deliciousV]

that may be your overall point. I asked about a specific thing where you said this could leave you more vulnerable to criminals. You still havent said any way that that would be possible

I can't recall saying anything about me, personally being left more vulnerable, I said that good honest people would be, if I've forgotten something I said feel free to remind me. But I am currently in the market for a decent, yet low priced handgun, most of which are semi auto, and as I've stated, I believe those will be next on the target list.
Obama used this tragedy to do something I believe he was planning all along, it is dishonest of him to pretend that an assault weapon ban will help, they already have one in conn and it didn't help, as a matter of fact every system in effect there worked, the dumb ass sociopath was unable to legally buy a gun, so he killed his mother and stole her already illegal guns. This shit ain't gonna do anything except put law abiding people at a disadvantage, criminals aren't gonna register.
Stop pretending Obama didn't piggy back the emotional scars left by this horror to make moves that wouldn't have effected this horror in the least. So why believe it will effect future tragedy?

[spoon]

I can't recall saying anything about me, personally being left more vulnerable, I said that good honest people would be, if I've forgotten something I said feel free to remind me. But I am currently in the market for a decent, yet low priced handgun, most of which are semi auto, and as I've stated, I believe those will be next on the target list.
Obama used this tragedy to do something I believe he was planning all along, it is dishonest of him to pretend that an assault weapon ban will help, they already have one in conn and it didn't help, as a matter of fact every system in effect there worked, the dumb ass sociopath was unable to legally buy a gun, so he killed his mother and stole her already illegal guns. This shit ain't gonna do anything except put law abiding people at a disadvantage, criminals aren't gonna register.
Stop pretending Obama didn't piggy back the emotional scars left by this horror to make moves that wouldn't have effected this horror in the least. So why believe it will effect future tragedy?
pretty sure I never read shaun posting that anywhere, much less here in the recent past

yet the reform is just beginning and it has been needed for some time...stop acting like this is some new issue and it's only some off event being utilized to get some awful ideas forced down our throats. the majority of the public are in favor of everything put through thus far, just those that want the status quo are very loud and backed by the powerful NRA and it's donors

you act like this is just a non-issue with comments like the above, much less the bullshit that this has no effect on things. yet again, it's just a starting point

[Snoogans]

I can't recall saying anything about me, personally being left more vulnerable, I said that good honest people would be, if I've forgotten something I said feel free to remind me. But I am currently in the market for a decent, yet low priced handgun, most of which are semi auto, and as I've stated, I believe those will be next on the target list.
Obama used this tragedy to do something I believe he was planning all along, it is dishonest of him to pretend that an assault weapon ban will help, they already have one in conn and it didn't help, as a matter of fact every system in effect there worked, the dumb ass sociopath was unable to legally buy a gun, so he killed his mother and stole her already illegal guns. This shit ain't gonna do anything except put law abiding people at a disadvantage, criminals aren't gonna register.
Stop pretending Obama didn't piggy back the emotional scars left by this horror to make moves that wouldn't have effected this horror in the least. So why believe it will effect future tragedy?
ok thats fair, you didnt say that about you. I just looked and you said law abiding citizens. But the point is still valid, what would be happening to a law abiding citizen where they would be at risk with a shotgun but not with a semi auto rifle is what i was asking.

as for the bolded part, i never said that wasnt true. You must be confusing me with someone else. I dont think assault weapons should be banned and i didnt vote for obama. Im just asking you to that one point what reason would someone who is law abiding NEED a semi auto rifle for protection

[deliciousV]

pretty sure I never read shaun posting that anywhere, much less here in the recent past

yet the reform is just beginning and it has been needed for some time...stop acting like this is some new issue and it's only some off event being utilized to get some awful ideas forced down our throats. the majority of the public are in favor of everything put through thus far, just those that want the status quo are very loud and backed by the powerful NRA and it's donors

you act like this is just a non-issue with comments like the above, much less the bullshit that this has no effect on things. yet again, it's just a starting point

let me make this clear to you, I don't listen to or watch "Shaun", I don't listen to Rush or anybody else. From 11-3 I listen to R&F, from 3 until my wife gets home I listen to the O&A replay, I form my own fucking opinions, I have a brain and an internet for researching facts and statistics, which I use to form my own fucking opinions.
I do not act like this is a non-issue, I have avoided these type conversations in the past because I don't like the way you and others decide you are right and everybody else is stupid when these things are a matter of opinion, nobody can really know who is right, but this issue matters enough to me to comment, so I clearly am not treating it as a "non-issue".
There is not one single state, city, or country for that matter where increased gun control has helped, and I defy you to offer proof to the contrary. Sure, in some places gun violence has gone down, but overall violent crimes have gone up. I learned that by researching for myself, not "parroting" anybody else. Get over yourself, you have opinions, it doesn't mean you are right, anymore than I am. At least not for sure.
'

[deliciousV]

ok thats fair, you didnt say that about you. I just looked and you said law abiding citizens. But the point is still valid, what would be happening to a law abiding citizen where they would be at risk with a shotgun but not with a semi auto rifle is what i was asking.
as for the bolded part, i never said that wasnt true. You must be confusing me with someone else. I dont think assault weapons should be banned and i didnt vote for obama. Im just asking you to that one point what reason would someone who is law abiding NEED a semi auto rifle for protection

how is it a good idea for a government to pass laws that create a world where decent law abiding people are forced to be outgunned by criminals? A bad guy approaching your house with a semi auto and a 30 round clip will have the advantage over you and a pump action shotgun.
And, as I've stated before, my biggest problem is not with what is being done now, some of which I agree with, but what I believe will follow.

[spoon]

let me make this clear to you, I don't listen to or watch "Shaun", I don't listen to Rush or anybody else. From 11-3 I listen to R&F, from 3 until my wife gets home I listen to the O&A replay, I form my own fucking opinions, I have a brain and an internet for researching facts and statistics, which I use to form my own fucking opinions.
'

dude, wtf are you talking about?

shaun is snoogans and that's what I was saying

:wacko:

[deliciousV]

dude, wtf are you talking about?

shaun is snoogans and that's what I was saying

:wacko:

How the fuck would I know that? Seemed like another accusation if parroting, this time of Hannity.

[spoon]

I do not act like this is a non-issue, I have avoided these type conversations in the past because I don't like the way you and others decide you are right and everybody else is stupid when these things are a matter of opinion, nobody can really know who is right, but this issue matters enough to me to comment, so I clearly am not treating it as a "non-issue".
There is not one single state, city, or country for that matter where increased gun control has helped, and I defy you to offer proof to the contrary. Sure, in some places gun violence has gone down, but overall violent crimes have gone up. I learned that by researching for myself, not "parroting" anybody else. Get over yourself, you have opinions, it doesn't mean you are right, anymore than I am. At least not for sure.
'

second, how can you fucking say I and others have decided I am right when I have clearly stated I don't know the answer, just that we need to try something...yet I'm also not for some widespread ban!? where the fuck are you getting this shit from!? perhaps you should start reading here at least.

and no matter how often you pump this gun control has no benefits angle all over the board it's simply not true. for every stat you put up for one side, there's that complete opposite stat from the other camp. in the end it's quite simple, we have a problem and nothing has been done for ages. if you don't think our country is an outlier, you're wrong. time for you to get over yourself and for talking like an asshole you can really fuck yourself on this one. Pay fucking attention and stop overreacting before you have a clue on a simple comment that snoogans/shaun never came close to making the leap you presented as fact, much less me claiming to be right even though I have oft said I'm not completely sure HOW to deal with this appropriately. WTF is all I can truly say to you flying off the handle on fucking NOTHING here.

[spoon]

How the fuck would I know that? Seemed like another accusation if parroting, this time of Hannity.

first off, I never said that to you here...it was someone else on your nothing would have been changed statement (epo I think)

second, I call snoogans shaun all the time. and simple context here should have given it away lest you be all fucking dick hurt and immediately jumping to attack mode and all but making shit up about my fucking stance and attitude here. I go at Wf bc he's a fucking asshole and can't be objective on a single fucking thing. I reserve that for those acting like racist fucking assholes who think they know better but don't have one unbiased bone in their body. Your last post was so off it makes me wonder a whole lot V. I simply don't appreciate it at all. I guess you now think I was referring to Hannity as Shaun now, and insinuating he posts here? Come on, really?!

[deliciousV]

first off, I never said that to you here...it was someone else on your nothing would have been changed statement (epo I think)

second, I call snoogans shaun all the time. and simple context here should have given it away lest you be all fucking dick hurt and immediately jumping to attack mode and all but making shit up about my fucking stance and attitude here. I go at Wf bc he's a fucking asshole and can't be objective on a single fucking thing. I reserve that for those acting like racist fucking assholes who think they know better but don't have one unbiased bone in their body. Your last post was so off it makes me wonder a whole lot V. I simply don't appreciate it at all. I guess you now think I was referring to Hannity as Shaun now, and insinuating he posts here? Come on, really?!
I'll try and explain how I misconstrued what you said tomorrow, I'm posting from my phone in bed right now and its too much work for my fat fingers. But I will say that you are correct, I flew off the handle, wrongly so. I apologies. Hopefully I can make it make sense tomorrow

[spoon]

I'll try and explain how I misconstrued what you said tomorrow, I'm posting from my phone in bed right now and its too much work for my fat fingers. But I will say that you are correct, I flew off the handle, wrongly so. I apologies. Hopefully I can make it make sense tomorrow

dude, no worries

it just pissed me off there when I read it

all good

[WRESTLINGFAN]

first off, I never said that to you here...it was someone else on your nothing would have been changed statement (epo I think)

second, I call snoogans shaun all the time. and simple context here should have given it away lest you be all fucking dick hurt and immediately jumping to attack mode and all but making shit up about my fucking stance and attitude here. I go at Wf bc he's a fucking asshole and can't be objective on a single fucking thing. I reserve that for those acting like racist fucking assholes who think they know better but don't have one unbiased bone in their body. Your last post was so off it makes me wonder a whole lot V. I simply don't appreciate it at all. I guess you now think I was referring to Hannity as Shaun now, and insinuating he posts here? Come on, really?!

Quit being a bitch and stop your complaining like a little girl about me to other board members and address me directly.

I am objective, its your god damned politicians who think they know better than you. Get the bill passed before the other state does. I wanna be the 1st. That was NY's attitude towards this.


Barack uses a bunch of kids for stage props and dances on the corpses to issue Executive fiats outside his authority of the constitution and you think having an imperial president is a good thing.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

More lunacy from the city of Chi-Raq



http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2013/01/17/alderman-suggests-requiring-gps-devices-on-all-guns/

[Chigworthy]

More lunacy from the city of Chi-Raq



http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2013/01/17/alderman-suggests-requiring-gps-devices-on-all-guns/

GPS chips? Did this guy do any research before making the statement?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

GPS chips? Did this guy do any research before making the statement?



He puts the jerk in knee jerk proposals

[Snoogans]

how is it a good idea for a government to pass laws that create a world where decent law abiding people are forced to be outgunned by criminals? A bad guy approaching your house with a semi auto and a 30 round clip will have the advantage over you and a pump action shotgun.
And, as I've stated before, my biggest problem is not with what is being done now, some of which I agree with, but what I believe will follow.

no, he wouldnt. You are in your house, you know the layout, and you are gonna be able to spring on him as he is coming in. You would be at a huge advantage in your own house, even with just a shotgun

[WRESTLINGFAN]

no, he wouldnt. You are in your house, you know the layout, and you are gonna be able to spring on him as he is coming in. You would be at a huge advantage in your own house, even with just a shotgun

I will say if you have a shotgun and use a slug , youre definitely hitting flesh and it will do a shit ton of damage

[deliciousV]

I will say if you have a shotgun and use a slug , youre definitely hitting flesh and it will do a shit ton of damage

you got it backwards, much easier to hit something with buckshot, which spreads, than with a single slug.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

you got it backwards, much easier to hit something with buckshot, which spreads, than with a single slug.

At close range the intruder will go down with a slug. I wanna see a massive hole in the perp.

[Snoogans]

you should load bird shot first round, so its like a warning shot and doesnt go through the walls. Then you have buck behind it incase you gotta kill the person

[spoon]

Quit being a bitch and stop your complaining like a little girl about me to other board members and address me directly.

I am objective, its your god damned politicians who think they know better than you. Get the bill passed before the other state does. I wanna be the 1st. That was NY's attitude towards this.


Barack uses a bunch of kids for stage props and dances on the corpses to issue Executive fiats outside his authority of the constitution and you think having an imperial president is a good thing.

yah bc if there is one thing I fear and don't do, it's coming at you directly

:wallbash:

i was talking to V, try to comprehend that for a second you fuck

[spoon]

At close range the intruder will go down with a slug. I wanna see a massive hole in the perp.

you really have issues

[WRESTLINGFAN]

you really have issues

Figures you would side with the invader

[spoon]

Figures you would side with the invader

oh yah, that's EXACTLY what I did there

you are a wizard of made up angles

[spankyfrank]

This thread should be renamed

"The official Spoon v. Wrestlingfan sparing thread"

[spoon]

Figures you would side with the invader

GO!

http://www.retroist.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/space-invaders.gif

fucking WF, what an assclown

[spoon]

This thread should be renamed

"The official Spoon v. Wrestlingfan sparing thread"

that fuck has been KO'd and TKO'd a thousand times at this point

clearly it explains his inability to focus, make a salient point and flat out not look like a Wfool

[spoon]

This thread should be renamed

"The official Spoon v. Wrestlingfan sparing thread"

and no no spanky

according to WF, I don't come at him directly

:lol:

[WRESTLINGFAN]

that fuck has been KO'd and TKO'd a thousand times at this point

clearly it explains his inability to focus, make a salient point and flat out not look like a Wfool

Says the fool who wont debate me on air.

[spoon]

Says the fool who wont debate me on air.

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

says that guy who thinks this would interest a soul, much less Ron and Fez would and should have a care in the fucking world

get a hold of your fucking level of self importance you stupid stupid fuck

ha!

that's fucking HILARIOUS!

serious, thanks for the continued laughs

you really are a fool

[WRESTLINGFAN]

and no no spanky

according to WF, I don't come at him directly

:lol:

Take the challenge.

I'll call in and debate you on air. Take your best shot.

[spoon]

how about you focus on making your first valid/unbiased fucking point HERE and build on that?!

no more Obama vacation attacks and photoshop "scandals" would be a nice start

[razorboy]

I'll call in and debate you on air.

Who isn't in favor of air?

[spoon]

Who isn't in favor of air?

wf, fuck any regulation!

hurts biz and we need to keep up with China in air pollution and cost

[WRESTLINGFAN]

how about you focus on making your first valid/unbiased fucking point HERE and build on that?!

no more Obama vacation attacks and photoshop "scandals" would be a nice start

Yea I attacked Obama just only on vacations. No fiscal, economic, foreign policy/military issues


What a short memory you have.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Guess you forgot about how I called out Boehner being useless.

[spoon]

i've seen the light, instead we should have a live debate during the Super Bowl halftime show

I'll call in and they'll put this boring, repetitive yelling on for the world to see AND hear!

I'm sure this should be easy enough, let alone something I dream about daily on the hour!

:wallbash:

[razorboy]

Guess you forgot about how I called out Boehner being useless.

To be fair, most of us stopped paying attention years ago.

[spoon]

Yea I attacked Obama just only on vacations. No fiscal, economic, foreign policy/military issues


What a short memory you have.

yes, bc again, THAT'S exactly what I said

you have issues man

I stated you attack such STUPID shit and always in one direction unless you want a change like Boehner bc he isn't as divisive enough for you at this point.

you want some semblance of credibility, my point was to stop with the LUDICROUS points like those I listed. you not only show your bullshit bias, you try to defend the most inane takes being tossed out by the fringe of one side constantly.

AJ and others have similar takes on policy often, but have sane takes on why, where they're coming from and don't just attack the most idiotic things in one direction. You have zero credibility for this and how you twist posts like when I called out your dark take on wanting to see huge holes in people into me being on the side of the intruder. It's fucking stupid, childish and doesn't fool anyone at a 3rd grade reading level. Something I'm not convinced you have attained. The mere fact you think R & F would have ANY interest in this annoying back and fro we have going shows just how clouded your fucking judgement is too. I wouldn't want to hear this on air, why the FUCK would anyone else. I only do this here bc it's hilarious to see what amazingly stupid angle or take you'll put next and claim to be unbiased and a Johnson backer. Just admit it, you have a crush on Obama and hate yourself for it. It's ok man, just come out. Even you are for gay marriage now right? Just open up and be yourself Schneider. YOU CAN DO IT!

[deliciousV]

pretty sure I never read shaun posting that anywhere, much less here in the recent past

yet the reform is just beginning and it has been needed for some time...stop acting like this is some new issue and it's only some off event being utilized to get some awful ideas forced down our throats. the majority of the public are in favor of everything put through thus far, just those that want the status quo are very loud and backed by the powerful NRA and it's donors

you act like this is just a non-issue with comments like the above, much less the bullshit that this has no effect on things. yet again, it's just a starting point

Hey Spoon, as I'm sure you figured out this is where I became stupid, I've never noticed you calling anyone Shaun on here, I read this in a sarcastic tone that indicated, in my mind, that you thought I was copying something Hannity had said and I had read. My bad, fuck everyone it was really late and I was partially intoxicated (.15 on my fancy pocket breathalizer) sorry again, you do offer heated yet fair debate with pretty much everybody except you know who.

[deliciousV]

you should load bird shot first round, so its like a warning shot and doesnt go through the walls. Then you have buck behind it incase you gotta kill the person

God forbid I ever have to deal with this, but if I do I'm already loaded with buck shot, no slugs, that's just stupid. I'll give as much warning verbally as possible, but no warning shots, if I ever have to pull the trigger indefense of me and mine, I'll shoot to kill, God forbid. And I won't be examining the size of the hole afterwards. I'd take no joy, that's fucking sick.

[spoon]

no worries again V

I at least see where you got confused and what it was linked too so for me to ignore that would be intentionally stupid and dicky myself

and again V, I'm not for some crazy overbearing ban

plenty seem to forget or ignore that I've written this many many times. I just want something to be addressed and attempted bc we simply are an anomaly in the industrialized world at this point. I know you have stats to say otherwise, but we all know stats can be twisted in every direction needed. we simply have a problem that has been pushed aside by vested interest parties for decades now, and it needs to be on the table for an actual look and some adjustments. not sure exactly what and how to do this, but I do know it's not some over-the-top ban but something needs to be changed

[spoon]

God forbid I ever have to deal with this, but if I do I'm already loaded with buck shot, no slugs, that's just stupid. I'll give as much warning verbally as possible, but no warning shots, if I ever have to pull the trigger indefense of me and mine, I'll shoot to kill, God forbid. And I won't be examining the size of the hole afterwards. I'd take no joy, that's fucking sick.

thank you

[WRESTLINGFAN]

yes, bc again, THAT'S exactly what I said

you have issues man

I stated you attack such STUPID shit and always in one direction unless you want a change like Boehner bc he isn't as divisive enough for you at this point.

you want some semblance of credibility, my point was to stop with the LUDICROUS points like those I listed. you not only show your bullshit bias, you try to defend the most inane takes being tossed out by the fringe of one side constantly.

AJ and others have similar takes on policy often, but have sane takes on why, where they're coming from and don't just attack the most idiotic things in one direction. You have zero credibility for this and how you twist posts like when I called out your dark take on wanting to see huge holes in people into me being on the side of the intruder. It's fucking stupid, childish and doesn't fool anyone at a 3rd grade reading level. Something I'm not convinced you have attained. The mere fact you think R & F would have ANY interest in this annoying back and fro we have going shows just how clouded your fucking judgement is too. I wouldn't want to hear this on air, why the FUCK would anyone else. I only do this here bc it's hilarious to see what amazingly stupid angle or take you'll put next and claim to be unbiased and a Johnson backer. Just admit it, you have a crush on Obama and hate yourself for it. It's ok man, just come out. Even you are for gay marriage now right? Just open up and be yourself Schneider. YOU CAN DO IT!

Another useless rant by Shamlet.

Yesterday Snoogans and I had a great back and forth and there were no Spoontype tirades or juvenile remarks. You are bad at debating

How do you know they wouldn't want an on air debate ? You would be floored on ANY topic in politics. Economics, the constitution, you name it.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

God forbid I ever have to deal with this, but if I do I'm already loaded with buck shot, no slugs, that's just stupid. I'll give as much warning verbally as possible, but no warning shots, if I ever have to pull the trigger indefense of me and mine, I'll shoot to kill, God forbid. And I won't be examining the size of the hole afterwards. I'd take no joy, that's fucking sick.

Take account living situations. If you have a family living with you then factor in that. I live alone so I prefer to use a slug.


Why is it stupid? I give him 1 warning. Your rules of engagement are different than mine, that s fine however the objective is to take the intruder down.

I feel no pity for the person I kill. He decided to roll the dice and he chose the wrong house.

[spoon]

Sure thing wf, you have shown great debating abilities here to back up that stupid post. And it doesn't take a genius to know this would be raido cancer bc it's even awful here. How dumb are u?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Sure thing wf, you have shown great debating abilities here to back up that stupid post. And it doesn't take a genius to know this would be raido cancer bc it's even awful here. How dumb are u?

What makes you say that?


It wouldn't be some Barack Obama vs Mitt Romney supporter.

[spoon]

Yet u are.

[deliciousV]

Take account living situations. If you have a family living with you then factor in that. I live alone so I prefer to use a slug.


Why is it stupid? I give him 1 warning. Your rules of engagement are different than mine, that s fine however the objective is to take the intruder down.

I feel no pity for the person I kill. He decided to roll the dice and he chose the wrong house.

I think it's smarter to go with the spray effect of buck shot, with a slug you might as well be shooting a rifle, you could miss, the spread of 12ga buck shot makes it much more like you hit the target, and since you seem to revel in it, at close range would do more damage.
It might not be pity, but in spite of your bravado you'd feel something after taking a life, unless you are a sociopath.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I think it's smarter to go with the spray effect of buck shot, with a slug you might as well be shooting a rifle, you could miss, the spread of 12ga buck shot makes it much more like you hit the target, and since you seem to revel in it, at close range would do more damage.
It might not be pity, but in spite of your bravado you'd feel something after taking a life, unless you are a sociopath.

Im a good shot.


4 years in the Marine Corps as a rifleman made me one. While the M-16A2 was what I used the most, I did fire shotguns on occasion.


Of course I wouldnt dance on the corpse, However I wont feel too much pity. I value my house and possessions as things that I worked damn hard for to acquire.

Say for example If I was ready to fire and he ran out, I wouldn't shoot him in the back because there are some rules of engagement in regards to home invasion. Many police say, if youre going to take a shot make sure he's in the house.

[deliciousV]

Im a good shot.


4 years in the Marine Corps as a rifleman made me one. While the M-16A2 was what I used the most, I did fire shotguns on occasion.


Of course I wouldnt dance on the corpse, However I wont feel too much pity. I value my house and possessions as things that I worked damn hard for to acquire.

Say for example If I was ready to fire and he ran out, I wouldn't shoot him in the back because there are some rules of engagement in regards to home invasion. Many police say, if youre going to take a shot make sure he's in the house.

in most places he has to be in your house and threatening, and have a weapon

[Dell]

Im a good shot.


4 years in the Marine Corps as a rifleman made me one. While the M-16A2 was what I used the most, I did fire shotguns on occasion.


Of course I wouldnt dance on the corpse, However I wont feel too much pity. I value my house and possessions as things that I worked damn hard for to acquire.

Say for example If I was ready to fire and he ran out, I wouldn't shoot him in the back because there are some rules of engagement in regards to home invasion. Many police say, if youre going to take a shot make sure he's in the house.

I've won my share of marksman titles, I earned and like my possessions, and I may have as many guns ole Ant...if an intruder does not "threaten" me or mine, they might get away with everything in my house

[spoon]

I think it's smarter to go with the spray effect of buck shot, with a slug you might as well be shooting a rifle, you could miss, the spread of 12ga buck shot makes it much more like you hit the target, and since you seem to revel in it, at close range would do more damage.
It might not be pity, but in spite of your bravado you'd feel something after taking a life, unless you are a sociopath.

I just read this and was going to guess the very next post was the classic WF the marine post...WE KNOW FOR FUCK'S SAKE! I KNEW he wouldn't miss a shot bc I did scroll down and saw it in there!

Someone needs to put together two different packages of WF greatest hits. WF the Marine and WF the fucking LUNATIC ASSHOLE FUCKWAD FOOL. It may make one go mad just reading through so many crazy posts, but would be so fucking funny if done.

[Snoogans]

God forbid I ever have to deal with this, but if I do I'm already loaded with buck shot, no slugs, that's just stupid. I'll give as much warning verbally as possible, but no warning shots, if I ever have to pull the trigger indefense of me and mine, I'll shoot to kill, God forbid. And I won't be examining the size of the hole afterwards. I'd take no joy, that's fucking sick.

well, bird shot as a warning i just meant not kill. Its still gonna fuck the person up pretty bad. It wont feel good to get hit with it. But it wont put holes in your walls either

[deliciousV]

well, bird shot as a warning i just meant not kill. Its still gonna fuck the person up pretty bad. It wont feel good to get hit with it. But it wont put holes in your walls either

fair enough, it's a thought. I'll consider it.

[Snoogans]

fair enough, it's a thought. I'll consider it.

make sure to back it up with buck shot though, incase you still have to kill the perp, you can pump it once and boom

[deliciousV]

make sure to back it up with buck shot though, incase you still have to kill the perp, you can pump it once and boom

I have to think about it, God knows I don't want to hurt anybody, let alone kill them, but all of my gun training, military and otherwise says if you have to shoot, shoot to kill. Tough call.

[keithy_19]

I have to think about it, God knows I don't want to hurt anybody, let alone kill them, but all of my gun training, military and otherwise says if you have to shoot, shoot to kill. Tough call.

I heard a story where I heard that a young girl was told to shoot to wound (meaning at the legs, which can actually be incredibly deadly in medical terms) and it bothered me. It was during a home intrusion story and she was saved by shooting the perp in the leg. I don't get it. Fuck him. Hebroke in. In the head. God bless the girl, but still. C'mon.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Looks like the shotgun is the weapon of choice, However if you want to use an AR-15 or weapon like that always do 2 to the chest, 1 to he head

[hanso]

How dumb is it the NRA awards grades to politicians?



Santorum: Armor-piercing bullets ‘a right in our country’

Earns his a++++++++++++++++

[spoon]

How dumb is it the NRA awards grades to politicians?



Santorum: Armor-piercing bullets ‘a right in our country’

Earns his a++++++++++++++++

slippery slope people...as what's next, people marrying bullets or guns?!

[epo]

I heard a story where I heard that a young girl was told to shoot to wound (meaning at the legs, which can actually be incredibly deadly in medical terms) and it bothered me. It was during a home intrusion story and she was saved by shooting the perp in the leg. I don't get it. Fuck him. Hebroke in. In the head. God bless the girl, but still. C'mon.

That's a draconian point of view. I expect better from sensitive kids like you.

[Dell]

slippery slope people...as what's next, people marrying bullets or guns?!

HA!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Santorum is a hack.


He wants to ban porn by controlling the internet but he picks and chooses other liberties which should be upheld.

[spoon]

wf gets jokes

[A.J.]

How dumb is it the NRA awards grades to politicians?



Santorum: Armor-piercing bullets ‘a right in our country’

Earns his a++++++++++++++++

All special interest groups/organizations give grades to politicians.

[hanso]

5 People Shot at 3 Different Gun Shows on Gun Appreciation Day.

Don't even have to get guns home for accidental shootings to happen.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

A little bit paranoid there I think




http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/Kindergartner-Bubble-Gun-Threat-Suspended-Lawsuit-187553371.html

[epo]

5 People Shot at 3 Different Gun Shows on Gun Appreciation Day.

Don't even have to get guns home for accidental shootings to happen.

The irony is hilarious & sad.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

5 People Shot at 3 Different Gun Shows on Gun Appreciation Day.

Don't even have to get guns home for accidental shootings to happen.



http://www.thecubiclechick.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/chicago.jpg



AMATEURS!!!!!

[hanso]

NM Boy, 15, Kills His Family With 'Multiple' Weapons (1/2 family)

Five people killed in a weekend shooting at an Albuquerque home included a volunteer fire chaplain and three "very young children," officials said Sunday. A 15-year-old family member was arrested and charged with the slayings.

"Multiple weapons were apparently used, including one assault rifle," Bernalillo County Sheriff Dan Houston told reporters in a televised news conference.

Deputies responded to the house on Saturday night. The victims -- which included two girls and a boy -- were each apparently shot multiple times.

In a statement late Sunday, the sheriff's office identified the victims as Greg Griego, his wife Sara, and the children: Zephania, 9; Jael, 5; and Angelina, 2, the Associated Press reported.

Sheriff's spokesman Aaron Williamson confirmed to the Los Angeles Times that the suspect is 15-year-old Nehemiah Griego, who has been arrested and charged with two counts of murder and three counts of child abuse resulting in death.

One of those killed was Greg Griego, who was identified as Nehemiah's father in a biography that has since been removed from the website of the Albuquerque Calvary Church. A church leader told KOB-TV that Griego, a pastor, had taken a leave of absence from the church last year.

According to the biography, Greg Griego and his wife had 10 children.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-albuquerque-family-shooting-20130120,0,917364.story

[hanso]

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[spoon]

http://www.thecubiclechick.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/chicago.jpg



AMATEURS!!!!!


great point

let the show go on!

shootout baby!

[styckx]

http://www.wptv.com/dpp/news/national/lone-star-college-shooting-texas-college-shooting-lockdown-in-north-harris-county-school-reported?SDG

[hanso]

Homeschooled teen who killed family with AR-15 plotted Walmart mass shooting

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/01/22/homeschooled-teen-who-killed-family-with-ar-15-plotted-walmart-mass-shooting/

Follow up to story I posted above

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Much to the medias disappointment, what happened in Texas yesterday was not a mass shooting.



http://news.yahoo.com/texas-college-shooting-between-2-people-221923302.html;_ylt=A2KJ3Cf41P9Qqg0Ael7QtDMD

[WRESTLINGFAN]

MLK day shooting

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobileweb/2013/01/21/new-orleans-mlk-day-shooting_n_2521750.html

[A.J.]

MLK day shooting

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobileweb/2013/01/21/new-orleans-mlk-day-shooting_n_2521750.html

I was actually going to make a joke about where it took place. No need.

The gun violence occurred shortly after 1 p.m. -- about 30 minutes after the parade -- at the intersection of Martin Luther King Jr. Boulevard and LaSalle Street, according to WWLTV.

[Dell]

some data to encourage informed discussions...need to address the cause and not the method

http://danieljmitchell.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/causes-of-death-cartoon.jpg?w=500&h=353

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Feinstein wants to ban over 150 types of weapons including pistols and shotguns. She also wants a federal database.

The house might end up killing the bill.

If anything , gun stores are going to have even more business. Who woulda thought a Democrat from CA would be a marketing tool?

[deliciousV]

Feinstein wants to ban over 150 types of weapons including pistols and shotguns. She also wants a federal database.

The house might end up killing the bill.

If anything , gun stores are going to have even more business. Who woulda thought a Democrat from CA would be a marketing tool?

She's starting high to leave room for negotiations. Either way, I figure gridlock ties this up.

[spoon]

She's starting high to leave room for negotiations. Either way, I figure gridlock ties this up.

as is the other sides plan so NOTHING gets done

so in the end we'll get what we earned, more bullshit stagnation and not even an attempt on any angle here

it's so maddening

but the NRA wins again?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

as is the other sides plan so NOTHING gets done

so in the end we'll get what we earned, more bullshit stagnation and not even an attempt on any angle here

it's so maddening

but the NRA wins again?

Barack and Joe will be going around the country to push this new law since its a permanent campaign now.


Boehner will probably fold again.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I see Baracks logic.


F-16 For the Muslim brotherhood.


No AR-15's for Americans.

[epo]

Feinstein wants to ban over 150 types of weapons including pistols and shotguns. She also wants a federal database.

The house might end up killing the bill.

If anything , gun stores are going to have even more business. Who woulda thought a Democrat from CA would be a marketing tool?

Negotiating tactic. Feinstein flanks the far left, the NRA acts crazy on the hard right and the White House is given the space to create the reasonable middle".

[spoon]

No no F-16 logic

[hanso]

150 types of assault weapons

[Dell]

it's not gun control...it's gun safety...:lol:

Biden on Gun Safety (http://www.govexec.com/excellence/promising-practices/2013/01/biden-buy-shotgun-if-you-want-feel-safe/60875/)

[WRESTLINGFAN]

150 types of assault weapons

Every weapon is an assault weapon.

[brettmojo]

I see Baracks logic.


F-16 For the Muslim brotherhood.


No AR-15's for Americans.

The Muslim Brotherhood gets 36 year-old planes and in your mind that's a comparable to keeping ultramodern handheld assault weaponry out of the hands of Joe the Plummer?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

The Muslim Brotherhood gets 36 year-old planes and in your mind that's a comparable to keeping ultramodern handheld assault weaponry out of the hands of Joe the Plummer?

Yea those F-16 Jets are so primitive

[Dell]

Every weapon is an assault weapon.

while every weapon can be used for "assault" they can be equally used for "defense" (the user is the variable in that definition)...while I don't embrace your blind loyalty to the right (and your debating skills are lacking), don't let anyone dictate your vocabulary (especially, the ignorant)

[WRESTLINGFAN]

while every weapon can be used for "assault" they can be equally used for "defense" (the user is the variable in that definition)...while I don't embrace your blind loyalty to the right (and your debating skills are lacking), don't let anyone dictate your vocabulary (especially, the ignorant)

I don't have blind loyalty to the right. As I disagree with their lust for war and carrying water for the evangelicals.


The term assault weapon is just some made up word by the political class, many who have never even seen a gun.


It's amazing how they like to lecture us and think they know better when in fact that's not the case.

[Dell]

I don't have blind loyalty to the right. As I disagree with their lust for war and carrying water for the evangelicals.


The term assault weapon is just some made up word by the political class, many who have never even seen a gun.


It's amazing how they like to lecture us and think they know better when in fact that's not the case.

agreed...too many laws influenced by the ignorant and special interest groups (let's thrive to not be one of them)

automatic weapons were banned (unless you have a class III FFL) many years ago and I don't feel that was a bad law...there may be something equivalent for today's arms, but I have yet to see it in any of the new "assault weapon bans"

the fear of weapons they are promoting now are not a characteristic of the weapons they target...and if the "banners" refuse to acknowledge the dangers of "weapon-free zones," I will have a hard time crediting them with any logic to their arguments

there is one fundamental reason these monsters are targeting weapon-free zones...law abiding citizens are not allowed to defend themselves with equal force in these zones

edit: the VA Tech shooting is very close and personal to me...nobody has more desire than me to prevent such atrocities in the future (just give me a real method to support)

[spoon]

agreed...too many laws influenced by the ignorant and special interest groups (let's thrive to not be one of them)

automatic weapons were banned (unless you have a class III FFL) many years ago and I don't feel that was a bad law...there may be something equivalent for today's arms, but I have yet to see it in any of the new "assault weapon bans"

the fear of weapons they are promoting now are not a characteristic of the weapons they target...and if the "banners" refuse to acknowledge the dangers of "weapon-free zones," I will have a hard time crediting them with any logic to their arguments

there is one fundamental reason these monsters are targeting weapon-free zones...law abiding citizens are not allowed to defend themselves with equal force in these zones

edit: the VA Tech shooting is very close and personal to me...nobody has more desire than me to prevent such atrocities in the future (just give me a real method to support)

so you think their motivation, or part of them is that these places are weapon free zones?

not a chance it had to do with where the kid's mother worked or where the colorado kids wanted to attack their fellow students

i think that is a brazen tie in to say the least

as if any of these guys said, "where can I go with an ARSENAL where nobody will have weapons" vs. they are fucking out of it and want to find people they are mad at and the world in tight spaces with nowhere to run and inflict mass damages and revenge/anger being another huge part. they are mentally unsound and looking to kill as much as possible, bc you surely could pick other spots with less police and protection than a school and or theater. hell, theaters out here WAY before the shooting have cops ALL OVER THE PLACE...armed.

[Dell]

so you think their motivation, or part of them is that these places are weapon free zones?

not a chance it had to do with where the kid's mother worked or where the colorado kids wanted to attack their fellow students

i think that is a brazen tie in to say the least

as if any of these guys said, "where can I go with an ARSENAL where nobody will have weapons" vs. they are fucking out of it and want to find people they are mad at and the world in tight spaces with nowhere to run and inflict mass damages and revenge/anger being another huge part. they are mentally unsound and looking to kill as much as possible, bc you surely could pick other spots with less police and protection than a school and or theater. hell, theaters out here WAY before the shooting have cops ALL OVER THE PLACE...armed.

I thought the media jumped to that conclusion and the mother did not work at that school...and don't twist my words to argue against a weak point that I DIDN'T make (you guys do way too much of that shit on this site)

while the weapon-free zones are not the "motivation," they are very convenient to those wanting to inflict the most damage with limited resistance...I read that the Colorado shooter picked the theater he did because it was "weapon free" and there were two theaters closer but not "weapon free"

I'm open to debate and I'd love to figure out ways to deter heinous acts like this in the future...twisting and then trashing someone's words to enhance your virtual bravado is a waste of time (left and right rhetoric is easy to find)

[spoon]

Stop. There is way more rhetoric in your original post than mine calling u out on it. You called it the one fundamental reason, but where do i get off debating it this pulled out of thin air twist?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Rahm Emmanual using Chicago gutter politics is trying to strong arm banks to end lines of credit to gun makers


His toilet of a city is more dangerous than some of these 3rd world countries but he's more concerned with bullying banks and having his targets on fast food joints

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Hey Epo, Will you take his advice?


http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/wis-sheriff-urges-residents-gun-training-article-1.1248505

[deliciousV]

Hey Epo, Will you take his advice?


http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/wis-sheriff-urges-residents-gun-training-article-1.1248505

starting early down here

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/23/lee-bright-south-carolina_n_2533401.html

[spoon]

Hey Epo, Will you take his advice?


http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/wis-sheriff-urges-residents-gun-training-article-1.1248505

fucking unreal

first off, nice scare tactic

second, when weren't citizens partners with civil servants/cops?

fucking A man, what a political grandstand for more cops in the end, bc that's his end game outside of possible hurting the 911 system in place for a reason

shootouts, there's your answer

kill or be killed, then call the funeral home, fuck the police/911

we as a country and people are surely regressing

[spoon]

starting early down here

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/23/lee-bright-south-carolina_n_2533401.html

so this is the play?

both sides go completely apeshit to their extremes and nothing of substance gets done or even attempted

great

fucking sickening

[Jujubees2]

Hey Epo, Will you take his advice?


http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/wis-sheriff-urges-residents-gun-training-article-1.1248505

A Mexican Independence Day Parade in Milwaukee????

[deliciousV]

so this is the play?

both sides go completely apeshit to their extremes and nothing of substance gets done or even attempted

great

fucking sickening

how is it you are so sure that anything anybody else does is wrong? Have you ever lived in Wisconsin or South Carolina? How do your life experiences make you an authority on what's right for another community? You just want something done, and it's ok with you if that something is a retread ban on weapons that are responsible for a very low percentage of gun deaths every year?
I agree with you that better background checks and doing a better job of identifying and controlling the mentally ill is needed. But banning this and that will not change anything, except that law abiding people will be outgunned by criminals. There was a ban in place in Conn, the background checks worked and the asshole was unable to obtain a weapon legally. Bans don't help.

[spoon]

Wow, now i don't live in this country and want a full ban huh? Sorry that post was garbage and your evidence against any ban or changes is so compelling.

[spoon]

Not only have u put a huge ban into my platform for me, now it's a "retarded ban" i want. Just amazing.

[spoon]

And it doesn't take a genius to know arming janitors, school teachers and encouraging gun fights bc you own office admits it isn't competent as with the wisconsin story is FUCKING STUPID AND A REGRESSION OF PUR SOCIETY AS A WHOLE! The same US we are all a part of, not some region to region, state to state, city to city, community to community and block to block (or farm) breakout bc we need em r guns!

[deliciousV]

Wow, now i don't live in this country and want a full ban huh? Sorry that post was garbage and your evidence against any ban or changes is so compelling.

I didn't say you don't live in this country, stop blowing things into the ridiculous to prove a point, I was implying that you can't possibly know what's best for someplace so far from you facing different problems than you, or your community are.
That Wisconson thing is probably just an extreme move to get the community to back more funding for law enforcement.
And the SC thing is probably about teaching the students, most of which live in homes with weapons, about responsible use of these weapons.
Different communities have different needs. Who are we to say they won't work?

[deliciousV]

And it doesn't take a genius to know arming janitors, school teachers and encouraging gun fights bc you own office admits it isn't competent as with the wisconsin story is FUCKING STUPID AND A REGRESSION OF PUR SOCIETY AS A WHOLE! The same US we are all a part of, not some region to region, state to state, city to city, community to community and block to block (or farm) breakout bc we need em r guns!

and it doesn't take a genius to know that if somebody comes into your place of work, or school shooting a gun the only thing that will make them stop is somebody shooting back.
It's not a regression to respond to the sudden increase in nut jobs and drug addicts with equal fire power.

[epo]

Hey Epo, Will you take his advice?


http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/wis-sheriff-urges-residents-gun-training-article-1.1248505

David Clark is a Tea Party clown. Only a fool would listen to his advice.

[Dell]

I didn't say you don't live in this country, (1) stop blowing things into the ridiculous to prove a point, I was implying that you can't possibly know what's best for someplace so far from you facing different problems than you, or your community are.
That Wisconson thing is probably just an extreme move to get the community to back more funding for law enforcement.
(2) And the SC thing is probably about teaching the students, most of which live in homes with weapons, about responsible use of these weapons.
Different communities have different needs. Who are we to say they won't work?

(1) his strongest technique
(2) way too logical for this forum

[Dell]

and it doesn't take a genius to know that if somebody comes into your place of work, or school shooting a gun the only thing that will make them stop is somebody shooting back.
It's not a regression to respond to the sudden increase in nut jobs and drug addicts with equal fire power.

again, you are out-armed here by the emotionally irrational debaters...some of which probably wish the others would quit arguing

[spoon]

again, you are out-armed here by the emotionally irrational debaters...some of which probably wish the others would quit arguing

Says the guy who says something is the fucking fundamental reason for cause/or targeting then runs away from it as if I'm twisting anything. You are defending a guy who blatantly put words in my mouth on a ban for the umpteenth fucking time now, simply bc i attacked both sides of this argument for going to their extremes and playing fucking games overall. And this from delv who in the nezt post trying to say my overall country's needs on this trump some myopic neighborhood argument is off, but then follows it up by fucking agreeing that the wisconsin thing is a bullshit ploy with ulterior motives. Pump yourselves up some more boys, don't bother making valid posts or some semblence of defending made up shit and loose ideas outside of who are we to chime in. I'm a fucking US citizen del, and have every God Damn right to chime in to botch about BOTH fucking parties making this a fucking joke at best in the end. BOTH! Can u read that!? And i am NOT for a huge ban either for the 50th time. Stop being so scared the northerners or east coast elites wann take ur jobs...er guns!

For FUCK'S SAKE!

[deliciousV]

Says the guy who says something is the fucking fundamental reason for cause/or targeting then runs away from it as if I'm twisting anything. You are defending a guy who blatantly put words in my mouth on a ban for the umpteenth fucking time now, simply bc i attacked both sides of this argument for going to their extremes and playing fucking games overall. And this from delv who in the nezt post trying to say my overall country's needs on this trump some myopic neighborhood argument is off, but then follows it up by fucking agreeing that the wisconsin thing is a bullshit ploy with ulterior motives. Pump yourselves up some more boys, don't bother making valid posts or some semblence of defending made up shit and loose ideas outside of who are we to chime in. I'm a fucking US citizen del, and have every God Damn right to chime in to botch about BOTH fucking parties making this a fucking joke at best in the end. BOTH! Can u read that!? And i am NOT for a huge ban either for the 50th time. Stop being so scared the northerners or east coast elites wann take ur jobs...er guns!

For FUCK'S SAKE!

when I said that gridlock would likely stop Obama's ban you indicated with your post that you found that to be a bad thing. One can only assume that you are for that ban, well, one can assume that, until you stop attacking the opinions of others and give one of your own. Honestly, I've followed this thread pretty consistantly and I only know that you believe something has to change, and arming people is stupid. What do you want? Offer an opinion rather than tear one down.
And nobody doubts anybody's an American, your opinions are no more or less valid than the next, and you have a right to them. But you do have a tendancy to present them as fact and shit on everybody elses as if they're all idiots. And sorry, I have traveled this entire country, and I believe in states rights, I've seen enough to believe that the right solution for Newark or Chicago is not the right solution for North Dakota or South Carolina.

[hanso]

And it doesn't take a genius to know arming janitors, school teachers and encouraging gun fights bc you own office admits it isn't competent as with the wisconsin story is FUCKING STUPID AND A REGRESSION OF PUR SOCIETY AS A WHOLE! The same US we are all a part of, not some region to region, state to state, city to city, community to community and block to block (or farm) breakout bc we need em r guns!

The answer is always more guns. Have them in vending machines that come with a license, while laws are soften

[deliciousV]

The answer is always more guns. Have them in vending machines that come with a license, while laws are soften

Another emotional, absurd, extreme voice heard from. And yet no real opinion given.

[hanso]

Ditto or maybe Dittohead would be apprope

[deliciousV]

Ditto or maybe Dittohead would be apprope

Nope. I listen to R&F from 11-3, you still have no opinion, just an attempt to paint me into an extremists corner.

[spoon]

You painted yourself in that corner plenty.

[TripleSkeet]

Nope. I listen to R&F from 11-3, you still have no opinion, just an attempt to paint me into an extremists corner.

Well not to defend anyone here, but gun owners are usually pretty extremist. Every time theres a fucking high profile mass shooting in this country, gun nuts are the first to scream how they arent giving up their guns, and taking away guns wont stop crime.....even before anyone mentions it. It screams of a guilty concience.

I dont know where you live, but Im in NJ and they have some of the strictest gun laws around. And alot of gun owners here have told me personally that at first they didnt realize how easy it is to get guns in other parts of the country and they would have no problem making it just as hard to get a gun in every other state as it is in NJ. Which I had to agree with. Im not for a total gun ban, but in my opinion if you want one for protection then that should be what its for. The bare minimum should be fine, otherwise its not for protection, its a fucking plaything.

For some reason gun owners look at them owning guns to go shooting as the same thing as going to the park to toss around a fucking frisbee and its not. Your hobby is puts lives at risk because the bottom line is there are crazy / stupid / irresponsible motherfuckers in this world. Sorry man, but I deal with the public, and most people are just jerk offs. Anything that makes it tougher for these fucking retards to get their hands on something that they can kill someone with, either accidentally or on purpose, is cool with me.

[keithy_19]

Another emotional, absurd, extreme voice heard from. And yet no real opinion given.

You did say "if every person had a gun we'd probably all just mind our own and eat lots of cookies and sing songs with a good beat and adopt puppies and kiittens and run with them in wide open fields of Spring."

So, you know, you're kind of fucked.

[Dell]

Says the guy who says something is the fucking fundamental reason for cause/or targeting then runs away from it as if I'm twisting anything. You are defending a guy who blatantly put words in my mouth on a ban for the umpteenth fucking time now, simply bc i attacked both sides of this argument for going to their extremes and playing fucking games overall. And this from delv who in the nezt post trying to say my overall country's needs on this trump some myopic neighborhood argument is off, but then follows it up by fucking agreeing that the wisconsin thing is a bullshit ploy with ulterior motives. Pump yourselves up some more boys, don't bother making valid posts or some semblence of defending made up shit and loose ideas outside of who are we to chime in. I'm a fucking US citizen del, and have every God Damn right to chime in to botch about BOTH fucking parties making this a fucking joke at best in the end. BOTH! Can u read that!? And i am NOT for a huge ban either for the 50th time. Stop being so scared the northerners or east coast elites wann take ur jobs...er guns!

For FUCK'S SAKE!

either your reading comprehension is weak, or you are amazingly able to take a simple statement and work it into something you want to shit on...my litmus test for talking to the extremest like you, is if they recognize that these mass shootings have happened in weapon free zones and recognize that the weapon-free zone is as much a component for debate as banning assault rifles

I offered up that the ban on automatic weapons was "good" in my opinion and it accomplished what the "banners" were after...I think I would have been on the side of the banners in that scenario

I would like to back a solution now that would accomplish what the banners "say" they are after...I just haven't seen a suggestion, only a lot of rhetoric about how wrong I am regarding weapon-free zones (and a lot of useless personal stuff about where a person lives, doesn't live, whether or not we deem a person deserves/needs something)

no one is "running away"...there is NO REASON to virtually run away from you or your opinions (however, if interpreting my boring of your rhetoric as running away makes you feel big...have at it)

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Well not to defend anyone here, but gun owners are usually pretty extremist. Every time theres a fucking high profile mass shooting in this country, gun nuts are the first to scream how they arent giving up their guns, and taking away guns wont stop crime.....even before anyone mentions it. It screams of a guilty concience.

I dont know where you live, but Im in NJ and they have some of the strictest gun laws around. And alot of gun owners here have told me personally that at first they didnt realize how easy it is to get guns in other parts of the country and they would have no problem making it just as hard to get a gun in every other state as it is in NJ. Which I had to agree with. Im not for a total gun ban, but in my opinion if you want one for protection then that should be what its for. The bare minimum should be fine, otherwise its not for protection, its a fucking plaything.

For some reason gun owners look at them owning guns to go shooting as the same thing as going to the park to toss around a fucking frisbee and its not. Your hobby is puts lives at risk because the bottom line is there are crazy / stupid / irresponsible motherfuckers in this world. Sorry man, but I deal with the public, and most people are just jerk offs. Anything that makes it tougher for these fucking retards to get their hands on something that they can kill someone with, either accidentally or on purpose, is cool with me.

I think youre painting with a broad brush. I know plenty of gun owners, some who have children and they keep their weapons locked up so they can't get at them. Most gun owners are responsible and don't look to them as toys.


Some have them for hunting, some for protection. I have an AR-15 that I go for target shooting. I don't know if you have ever been to a range but the fundamentals of safety don't get more strict than that. For example your weapon is always supposed to be pointed down range.


I don't hunt, however im sure there are rules for safety in place for that as well.


My other weapon is a shotgun for home protection. I live alone so there is no risk of accidentally shooting someone like how Jayson Williams did a few years back.


I know there are some out there who think they are Rambo and are hoping for the Zombie apacolypse but the overwhelming majority of owners aren't these unstable people who are about to snap.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/s480x480/549881_481552028568182_756595285_n.jpg

Not to worry. Theyre just dreamers who want in state tuition

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

[epo]

how is it you are so sure that anything anybody else does is wrong? Have you ever lived in Wisconsin or South Carolina? How do your life experiences make you an authority on what's right for another community? You just want something done, and it's ok with you if that something is a retread ban on weapons that are responsible for a very low percentage of gun deaths every year?
I agree with you that better background checks and doing a better job of identifying and controlling the mentally ill is needed. But banning this and that will not change anything, except that law abiding people will be outgunned by criminals. There was a ban in place in Conn, the background checks worked and the asshole was unable to obtain a weapon legally. Bans don't help.

I live in Wisconsin. Spoon's blind assessment is right: David Clarke is viewed as a buffoon here.

[epo]

and it doesn't take a genius to know that if somebody comes into your place of work, or school shooting a gun the only thing that will make them stop is somebody shooting back.
It's not a regression to respond to the sudden increase in nut jobs and drug addicts with equal fire power.

The reason so many organizations/locations are "gun free zones" isn't because of talking points on either side, but rather its hard data. Sure we can argue about the best way to stop an incident once its started, but organizations are interested in preventing it in the first place.

The hard data shows that locations which allow guns on site are much more likely to have an incident. I don't have the exact number at the moment, but I believe it's in the zone of 5 to 6 times more likely. Hence, you'll see "no guns allowed" on the door of any establishment that understands anything about risk management.

Can we as a nation stop the qualitative argument on guns and move in a logical quantitative discussion?

[deliciousV]

The reason so many organizations/locations are "gun free zones" isn't because of talking points on either side, but rather its hard data. Sure we can argue about the best way to stop an incident once its started, but organizations are interested in preventing it in the first place.

The hard data shows that locations which allow guns on site are much more likely to have an incident. I don't have the exact number at the moment, but I believe it's in the zone of 5 to 6 times more likely. Hence, you'll see "no guns allowed" on the door of any establishment that understands anything about risk management.

Can we as a nation stop the qualitative argument on guns and move in a logical quantitative discussion?

I'm sure we would differ on what is logical. As I was searching the internet for this "hard data" you speak of, I read about Kennesaw Georgia, I'll link the most recent article I could find, it's admittedly one sided , but there's plenty of "hard data" out there from more nuetral sources, I just linked the most recent.

http://www.northern-iowan.org/gun-control-is-a-futile-deterrent-1.2804446

[epo]

[/B]

I'm sure we would differ on what is logical. As I was searching the internet for this "hard data" you speak of, I read about Kennesaw Georgia, I'll link the most recent article I could find, it's admittedly one sided , but there's plenty of "hard data" out there from more nuetral sources, I just linked the most recent.

http://www.northern-iowan.org/gun-control-is-a-futile-deterrent-1.2804446

Linking to an opinion is not data. Lets find data and discuss that.

[TripleSkeet]

I think youre painting with a broad brush. I know plenty of gun owners, some who have children and they keep their weapons locked up so they can't get at them. Most gun owners are responsible and don't look to them as toys.


Some have them for hunting, some for protection. I have an AR-15 that I go for target shooting. I don't know if you have ever been to a range but the fundamentals of safety don't get more strict than that. For example your weapon is always supposed to be pointed down range.


I don't hunt, however im sure there are rules for safety in place for that as well.


My other weapon is a shotgun for home protection. I live alone so there is no risk of accidentally shooting someone like how Jayson Williams did a few years back.


I know there are some out there who think they are Rambo and are hoping for the Zombie apacolypse but the overwhelming majority of owners aren't these unstable people who are about to snap.

Sure theres responsible gun owners. When I talk about stupid / irresponsible people, I talk about society as a whole. Most of them are morons. Doesnt mean there arent millions that are trustworthy and responsible. I just look at how many times you read about some kid finding his dads gun and either killing himself or worse a friend that happened to be there. I couldnt imagine having to be the father of a kid that got killed because his friend was showing off his dads gun. All I know is hes gonna need more than that gun to save his own life if that were to happen.

Shit, I remember Joe Vento was a huge proponent of the NRA and carrying guns. He would carry a gun on his apron as he made cheesesteaks at Genos. When I started working there the fucking guy shot himself in the hand by accident while supposedly trying to clean it.

[Dell]

the mass shootings is what I've read is the primary motivation behind the most recent discussions...there is a correlation between weapon-free zones and these mass shootings (which does not imply causation) which makes it as worthy to discuss as a specific type of firearm used in a lowly-correlated number of the mass shootings

[deliciousV]

Linking to an opinion is not data. Lets find data and discuss that.

Kennesaw Georgia is not an opinion, it's a real place and a good example showing that having armed people does not make them start shooting each other, and crime has gone way down there while the population has grown.
And any data contrary to gun control that I've posted here has yet to be disproven, nor has any opposing data been offered, all I get is "that data can be interpretted other ways".
And it's on you now to show some data, you claim to have seen some on gun free zones, link it.

[deliciousV]

Sure theres responsible gun owners. When I talk about stupid / irresponsible people, I talk about society as a whole. Most of them are morons. Doesnt mean there arent millions that are trustworthy and responsible. I just look at how many times you read about some kid finding his dads gun and either killing himself or worse a friend that happened to be there. I couldnt imagine having to be the father of a kid that got killed because his friend was showing off his dads gun. All I know is hes gonna need more than that gun to save his own life if that were to happen.

Shit, I remember Joe Vento was a huge proponent of the NRA and carrying guns. He would carry a gun on his apron as he made cheesesteaks at Genos. When I started working there the fucking guy shot himself in the hand by accident while supposedly trying to clean it.

this doesn't make them all potential murderers, they already have access to countless tools of murder and mayhem, yet the vast majority don't kill.

[Dell]

The reason so many organizations/locations are "gun free zones" isn't because of talking points on either side, but rather its hard data. Sure we can argue about the best way to stop an incident once its started, but organizations are interested in preventing it in the first place.

The hard data shows that locations which allow guns on site are much more likely to have an incident. I don't have the exact number at the moment, but I believe it's in the zone of 5 to 6 times more likely. Hence, you'll see "no guns allowed" on the door of any establishment that understands anything about risk management.

Can we as a nation stop the qualitative argument on guns and move in a logical quantitative discussion?

I would need to see the study that determined (quantitatively) that the threat of potential victims having a gun increases (5 to 6 times) the potential for violence...there are a slew of studies that support (quantitatively) the opposite

further wanting me to have this given equal attention in the debate is that rich people choose to send their kids to schools protected by armed personnel (no, not giving the janitor arms), so they must not believe the hard data you found...I currently agree with them and think their children and staff surviving an attack (primarily through the attack not happening) is greater than my wife and her students in the public school system where they are weapon-free, by law

[spoon]

WP/Klein look, but again I fully admit both sides will twist shit as much as possible. (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/12/14/nine-facts-about-guns-and-mass-shootings-in-the-united-states/)

11 sums up our needed approach linked to what we as a country need or hell want currently overall. Again, I don't have the answer but will get on some like Delv who act as if they know exactly what isn't bc it doesn't line up with their life/take. And just Dell, well he says things he can't even back up or defend so he puts himself on some altar of higher reasoning. Sorry Dell, I "debated" your "gun free zones" pretty clearly based on your insinuations, NOT your desire to simply discuss them. Basically, you get the reply your post warrants. If you want simple debate, don't come in attacking and putting your ideas and thoughts on some fucking ridiculous level bc of some self-inflated ego.

I have never backed one side completely here, much less have the answer, but I do see through those that are locked into agendas and will only recognize stats in one direction. DelV couldn't possibly have only seen stats to back his arguments, just as I'd be a fool to act as if I haven't seen those he speaks of countless times. It's the nature of the beast, both sides aren't pumping the breaks on their angles, in fact they are pushing their agendas louder and harder than ever.

Right from said article linked...When we first collected much of this data, it was after the Aurora, Colo. shootings, and the air was thick with calls to avoid “politicizing” the tragedy. That is code, essentially, for “don’t talk about reforming our gun control laws.” That's the bullshit take from the right. The left works hard to do just what the right fears above and usually reaches way too far polarizing this thing completely. In the end the answer is somewhere in the middle and along the lines or a start based on the country's views as listed in point 11 of this linked article. It's not perfect, and clearly an article or research coming from the angle of the left, but just an example that you somehow can't find any of DelV, which has to be complete bullshit.