The Juneau Juno (The Sarah Palin Thread)

[ChrisTheCop]

Politics aside, I feel bad for the girl. It's hard enough for a teen to deal with what is likely an accidental pregnancy without being forced to do it on the national stage. A lot of teens are stupid and not careful, and I don't condone that, but she's going to have to deal with worse than the average stupid teen. If she loses the baby, a lot of fingers will be pointed at the scrutiny she'll be forced to endure.

Agreed. And back to politics, the fact that she has a mother who loves her and supports her unconditionally, can only help Palin.

[GreatAmericanZero]

Her face is on the front page of the UK Telegraph today with the caption 'Bristol Palin is pregnant.'


She goes from anonymous Alaskan girl to international billboard for teen pregnancy in less than 72 hours.

yeah and thats why i don't like Sarah Palin. She is clearly putting her political career in front of her family. No one made her take the job, she knew her teenage daughter was pregnant, what the hell else could she think?

[celery]

OK, Sarah Palin is not pregnant -- at least not now -- but her daughter is. (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080901/pl_nm/usa_politics_palin_dc;_ylt=AnHfGwOc.gq3Tsq4s0tAzyq s0NUE)

"The Palins asked the news media to respect the young couple's privacy."

This might be the craziest thing I've read so far. Palin should know what to expect when running for Vice President - she has to expect to be one of the most scrutinized people in the world, and this carries over to her immediate family.

[K.C.]

Agreed. And back to politics, the fact that she has a mother who loves her and supports her unconditionally, can only help Palin.

I'm not sure you really understand the mindset of some of these Christian Conservatives.

The spin McCain will put on it is that 'this is a family coming together in crisis as a family with values should.'

But the truth of the matter is that this will turn off a lot of the hardcores. In the end, most will swallow it, and vote for him, but it curbs A LOT of the enthusiasm that part of the base had for her.

At the end of the day, the McCain spin will probably be enough to curb any potential damage, and it may not hurt him, but there's absolutely no way this helps him.



And that's not even taking into account the fact that there will be an argument made to the middle of the electorate that it's more proof McCain never vetted her, which will call into question his judgment which is Obama's campaign theme.

[GreatAmericanZero]

i do admire the optimism of the republicans who think this is "a good thing"

I look at it like, this girl can't even get her own daughter to not have a dick cum inside her, shes going to be able to tell Iran to stop with their nuclear program?

[ChrisTheCop]

As you point out, the Christian Conservatives are gonna vote for McCain in the end against Obama. I agree.

My point was geared more toward the uncategorized voter, who actually tries and votes for someone they FEEL is the best person to run the country. I use the word FEEL because frankly, thats how most uncategorized voters vote--in my opinion.

The media jumped all over this woman and her family, calling her a bad mother, an evil person, a liar, etc... all to be proven 100% false. Now, without apology for the previous assault, they jump on her again about another personal story involving her family, which this time she immediately admits is true. And really the only thing they have this time is that she's a victim of her love for her child, and the decisions that child has made, even though they go against the grain of her own political views. Thats unconditional love, and it plays well to the emotional voter.

[A.J.]

Thats unconditional love, and it plays well to the emotional voter.

Such as people who watch crap like this.

http://www.redwingsbaseball.com/images/features/F5_Images/F5_Watkins/Maury.jpg

[Zorro]

i do admire the optimism of the republicans who think this is "a good thing"

I look at it like, this girl can't even get her own daughter to not have a dick cum inside her, shes going to be able to tell Iran to stop with their nuclear program?

Your a classy guy...

[HBox]

The media jumped all over this woman and her family, calling her a bad mother, an evil person, a liar, etc... all to be proven 100% false.

That didn't happen. This was all blog based, and even the most respectable blogs wouldn't touch it.

[ChrisTheCop]

Such as people who watch crap like this.

http://www.redwingsbaseball.com/images/features/F5_Images/F5_Watkins/Maury.jpg

EXACTAMUNDO!!!

[K.C.]

i do admire the optimism of the republicans who think this is "a good thing"

Don't mistake that...

They're optimistic because they HAVE to be optimistic, because what other choice do they have? They're committed with Palin right now.

If it was one of Obama's daughters, every Christian Family group would have pundits on every news station blasting it as bad family values today.


The media jumped all over this woman and her family, calling her a bad mother, an evil person, a liar, etc... all to be proven 100% false. Now, without apology for the previous assault, they jump on her again about another personal story involving her family, which this time she immediately admits is true. And really the only thing they have this time is that she's a victim of her love for her child, and the decisions that child has made, even though they go against the grain of her own political views. Thats unconditional love, and it plays well to the emotional voter.

You're right that there is a risk of victimizing this lady to the point where she becomes very sympathetic.

But as of right now, I don't think we're at that point. But it's certainly a possibility, which is why Obama would be wise to keep his people away from this and let the tabloids handle it.


Just to finish up the Christian Conservative aspect of it, while I do ultimately think it won't bear too much of an effect on McCain, there is a certain segment of that group, who weren't enthusiastic about McCain to begin with who will look at this and decide they're staying home in November.

How sizeable...we'll see. But sometimes, that's enough.

In 2004, Kerry theoretically had the support to knock off Bush. He didn't get the turnout, because in the end there weren't enough people who loved Kerry as a candidate.

Enthusiasm plays a big role in turnout, and if you're a Christian Conservative, 72 hours ago, you had to be pretty high on the Sarah Palin pick, because she is reflective of them. Now...you have to be pretty disappointed by this news.

There's absolutely NO risk, though, of any of them jumping to Obama. But there may be people who decide they're just staying home.

[GreatAmericanZero]

Your a classy guy...

Thats what happened!

I don't want Juno as "First Daughter"

[ChrisTheCop]

That didn't happen. This was all blog based, and even the most respectable blogs wouldn't touch it.

http://www.razorsedgecollectibles.com/catalog/images/Gentle%20Giant%20Obi%20Wan%20Bust.jpg
http://www.collider.com/uploads/imageGallery/Men_in_Black/men_in_black_movie_image_tommy_lee_jones_and_will_ smith.jpg

[HBox]

http://www.razorsedgecollectibles.com/catalog/images/Gentle%20Giant%20Obi%20Wan%20Bust.jpg
http://www.collider.com/uploads/imageGallery/Men_in_Black/men_in_black_movie_image_tommy_lee_jones_and_will_ smith.jpg

Then show me where newspapers called her an evil woman, a bad mother and a liar. Just because us assholes were talking about this all weekend doesn't mean this shit got printed.

[celery]

Then show me where newspapers called her an evil woman, a bad mother and a liar. Just because us assholes were talking about this all weekend doesn't mean this shit got printed.

The GOP is definitely playing this card, though.

"The despicable rumors that have been spread by liberal blogs, some even with Barack Obama's name in them, is a real anchor around the Democratic ticket, pulling them down in the mud in a way that certainly juxtaposes themselves against their 'campaign of change,"' a senior aide said."
(from http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080901/pl_nm/usa_politics_palin_dc;_ylt=AnHfGwOc.gq3Tsq4s0tAzyq s0NUE)

[ChrisTheCop]

Then show me where newspapers called her an evil woman, a bad mother and a liar. Just because us assholes were talking about this all weekend doesn't mean this shit got printed.

Newspaper? What is this? Deadwood? :dry:

From nbc.com: A senior McCain campaign official said the McCain camp was appalled that these rumors had not only been spread around liberal blog sites and partisan Democrats, but also were the subject of heightened interest from mainstream news media.

And yes, I saw the reports on nbc, cnn, msnbc and cbs; merely reporting what blog sites were saying, but still getting the rumor out to the public.

[HBox]

The GOP is definitely playing this card, though.

"The despicable rumors that have been spread by liberal blogs, some even with Barack Obama's name in them, is a real anchor around the Democratic ticket, pulling them down in the mud in a way that certainly juxtaposes themselves against their 'campaign of change,"' a senior aide said."
(from http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080901/pl_nm/usa_politics_palin_dc;_ylt=AnHfGwOc.gq3Tsq4s0tAzyq s0NUE)

Of course they are. They lie to people's faces on a regular basis. I'm actually shocked at the restraint. "Some even with Barack Obama's name in them"? Fuck man, if Rove was in charge that would have been "even in Barack Obama's many personal blogs which he personally writes while he hates white people and raises taxes and destroys Christianity"

[ChrisTheCop]

Of course they are. They lie to people's faces on a regular basis. I'm actually shocked at the restraint. "Some even with Barack Obama's name in them"? Fuck man, if Rove was in charge that would have been "even in Barack Obama's many personal blogs which he personally writes while he hates white people and raises taxes and destroys Christianity"

and prays to allah. dont forget that!




again...politicians lying??? tsk tsk

[HBox]

Newspaper? What is this? Deadwood? :dry:

From nbc.com:

And yes, I saw the reports on nbc, cnn, msnbc and cbs; merely reporting what blog sites were saying, but still getting the rumor out to the public.

I'm not taking the McCain campaign's word for it.

And yeah, they mentioned it as rumors on liberal blogs, and then only because the McCain campaign announced it. Nobody was calling her a liar, an evil person or a bad mother. I've yet to see anyone in the major media talk about this story with any credence.

[SatCam]

so to sum up:

1. DailyKos hears rumors about Palin's daughter being pregnant. These rumors are true.

2. They also hear/know about the mystery behind Palin's pregnancy. The late announcement, the way they flew back to Alaska to have the baby, etc, it all seemed pretty out of the ordinary.

3. Someone with a creative mind puts 2 and 2 together and comes with the original "cover-up pregnancy" story and it gets onto DailyKos.

4. And to put it to rest, the family releases this gem of a (true) story.

The interesting part was..... when would we have found out about the real pregnancy otherwise? Eventually it would have gotten out... no way to keep it secret. Fortunately, the way it came out was a lot funnier and more interesting than it potentially could have been.




:thumbup:

[cougarjake13]

I'm not taking the McCain campaign's word for it.

And yeah, they mentioned it as rumors on liberal blogs, and then only because the McCain campaign announced it. Nobody was calling her a liar, an evil person or a bad mother. I've yet to see anyone in the major media talk about this story with any credence.



first time i heard of this was on here

havent seen any tv or radio guys mention it once


guess it doesnt matter

[A.J.]

I don't want Juno as "First Daughter"

In this case, wouldn't it be "Juneau"?

[ChrisTheCop]

In this case, wouldn't it be "Juneau"?

I dunno, I'll aska.

[GreatAmericanZero]

In this case, wouldn't it be "Juneau"?

haha "Juneau Juno". Such an obvious joke, I wonder how long before shes called that in the media

[Tenbatsuzen]

The thread title must be changed to The Juneau Juno IMMEDIATELY.

[Tenbatsuzen]

Someone on FARK called me out when I said McCain didn't vet her because "they did an FBI check on her."

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think an FBI check can get into the private medical records of a minor, especially if they aren't under investigation or have committed a crime.

[ChrisTheCop]

haha "Juneau Juno". Such an obvious joke, I wonder how long before shes called that in the media

This story isnt being talked about in the media at all! Only here. Now...go post in the crazy question thread or something!

[ChrisTheCop]

Someone on FARK called me out when I said McCain didn't vet her because "they did an FBI check on her."

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think an FBI check can get into the private medical records of a minor, especially if they aren't under investigation or have committed a crime.

Well TTT, welcome back...and as far as your question...wait a minute!! Youre not TTT!

[Dudeman]

Agreed. And back to politics, the fact that she has a mother who loves her and supports her unconditionally, can only help Palin.

A right wing conservative's teenage daughter having a baby out of wedlock can only help?

[Tenbatsuzen]

Well TTT, welcome back...and as far as your question...wait a minute!! Youre not TTT!

Who is TTT?

[Tenbatsuzen]

A right wing conservative's teenage daughter having a baby out of wedlock can only help?

You forgot to add "who vouches for strong family values and abstinence education wants to be one heartbeat away from the Big Chair but can't keep an eye on her own daughter."

I'm not saying being a teen mother is bad, but when your whole platform is based on family, abstinence, etc, SOMETHING IS WRONG.

[GreatAmericanZero]

The thread title must be changed to The Juneau Juno IMMEDIATELY.

agreed. right now its my favorite joke of all time. BUT i know its sooooo obvious that its going to be everywhere sooner than later

[Hottub]

Maybe that's Mom's platform, but it sure as hell ain't hers.

These crazy kids today, and their intercourse.

[Tenbatsuzen]

Maybe that's Mom's platform, but it sure as hell ain't hers.

These crazy kids today, and their intercourse.

I believe the children are our future...

teach them well and let them lead the way.

[IamPixie]

could this timing be any better?

[ChrisTheCop]

You forgot to add "who vouches for strong family values and abstinence education wants to be one heartbeat away from the Big Chair but can't keep an eye on her own daughter."

I'm not saying being a teen mother is bad, but when your whole platform is based on family, abstinence, etc, SOMETHING IS WRONG.

TTT is another guy who brought an argument from another board over here, silly.

And the platform was not the teen's platform.

All parents try to raise their children according to their values, but when the child veers away from that value system, whats a parent to do? Banish her? Pretend the kid is yours??
Family values include supporting your family when theyve made mistakes, even though those mistakes go against your political platform.

[ChrisTheCop]

Maybe that's Mom's platform, but it sure as hell ain't hers.

These crazy kids today, and their intercourse.

My point exactly. You do your best and hope they listen.
When they dont, you support them unconditionally.

[CousinDave]

Sarah Palin is running for Vice President to make the world a better place for her children and grandchildren.

[HBox]

Sarah Palin is running for Vice President to make the world a better place for her children and grandchildren.

Uh...... OK generic statement guy.

[Dudeman]

TTT is another guy who brought an argument from another board over here, silly.

And the platform was not the teen's platform.

All parents try to raise their children according to their values, but when the child veers away from that value system, whats a parent to do? Banish her? Pretend the kid is yours??
Family values include supporting your family when theyve made mistakes, even though those mistakes go against your political platform.

For the past 20+ years the family values, christian coalition people (Bush, Buchannan, Dobson, Robertson, Palin) have been arguing that family values are much more than supporting your family when they screw up. It is abstinance-only, anti-sex ed, anti-condom, anti-gay, etc. No way has it only been support your screwed up family members.

[A.J.]

The thread title must be changed to The Juneau Juno IMMEDIATELY.

I like it.

[celery]

The NY Post WILL steal this...

[GreatAmericanZero]

i love when i get photoshop ideas

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q217/greatamericanzero/juno.jpg

[ChrisTheCop]

For the past 20+ years the family values, christian coalition people (Bush, Buchannan, Dobson, Robertson, Palin) have been arguing that family values are much more than supporting your family when they screw up. It is abstinance-only, anti-sex ed, anti-condom, anti-gay, etc. No way has it only been support your screwed up family members.

I'm not disagreeing with you that what the child did, and ok, the mom's inability to enforce her teachings, goes against her platform.

My question is...again...what would you have her do? Banish her child? Pretend to be pregnant herself??? Have an...ABORTION???!!! Of course not, all but 1 wouldve been just silly 2 weeks ago. The fact is, as her campaign has stated,"life happens", and the way you deal with adversity, and the failings of those closest to you, is simply how people judge you as a person. She stands to gain some support from undecideds based solely on her actions this past week.

This is as much of a non-story as the last one, even though this one's true.

[GreatAmericanZero]

I'm not disagreeing with you that what the child did, and ok, the mom's inability to enforce her teachings, goes against her platform.

My question is...again...what would you have her do? Banish her child? Pretend to be pregnant herself??? Have an...ABORTION???!!! Of course not, all but 1 wouldve been just silly 2 weeks ago. The fact is, as her campaign has stated,"life happens", and the way you deal with adversity, and the failings of those closest to you, is simply how people judge you as a person. She stands to gain some support from undecideds based solely on her actions this past week.

This is as much of a non-story as the last one, even though this one's true.

how about the parent not force herself down the american public's throat as a vice presidential candidate? that would be enough

[ChrisTheCop]

how about the parent not force herself down the american public's throat as a vice presidential candidate? that would be enough

Good idea. 2 parties? blech...1 is all we need.


Honestly, Trooper Gate is a much better story as to how she handles her political life.

[Kevin]

Seriously, did McCain just throw a dart at random woman politician pics to pick his vp?

[K.C.]

Best thread title ever.

[Zorro]

how about the parent not force herself down the american public's throat as a vice presidential candidate? that would be enough

How is she being "forced" down anyone's throat? Last time I checked you can vote for anyone you want.

[GreatAmericanZero]

How is she being "forced" down anyone's throat? Last time I checked you can vote for anyone you want.

id consider any politician to be "forced down peoples throats" but when you're a "family values lady" and your daughter is a slut getting creampied by the hockey team, maybe the responsible thing to do is not accept a position to expose your whole fucked up life in every single American home

[K.C.]

GAZ made a good point.


You have to question this woman's judgment if she knew her daughter was pregnant before being asked to be VP, and accepted anyway.

She's made her daughter a target for fodder everywhere now. She's going to be on the cover of every newspaper in America tomorrow, and is already being picked up internationally.


Who does that to their kid?

[GreatAmericanZero]

GAZ made a good point.


You have to question this woman's judgment if she knew her daughter was pregnant before being asked to be VP, and accepted anyway.

She's made her daughter a target for fodder everywhere now. She's going to be on the cover of every newspaper in America tomorrow, and is already being picked up internationally.


Who does that to their kid?

yeah that is essentially my point..without the use of the word "Creampie". Good job!

[Zorro]

http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1837862,00.html?xid=rss-topstories

[ChrisTheCop]

and your daughter is a slut getting creampied by the hockey team,

another valid assumption. Blog it!

[A.J.]

How is she being "forced" down anyone's throat? Last time I checked you can vote for anyone you want.

Maybe if something was forced down her daughter's throat this pregnancy would never have happened.

[Tenbatsuzen]

Maybe if something was forced down her daughter's throat this pregnancy would never have happened.

A cock? Or RU 486?

[HBox]

A cock? Or RU 486?

I do both at the same time. I'm illogically cautious.

[Tenbatsuzen]

I do both at the same time. I'm illogically cautious.

You know, I heard of taking roofies and/or ecstasy with viagara. As a courtesy, maybe a roofie/RU 486 combo is in order.

[ChrisTheCop]

I do both at the same time. I'm illogically cautious.

Frothy HBox sperm, he's illogically cautious!
http://images.buycostumes.com/mgen/merchandiser/21178.jpg

[A.J.]

A cock? Or RU 486?

Yes.

[HBox]

Today is so fucking weird. I can only imagine what Sarah palin will bring us tomorrow.

[Hottub]

Obama says "Off limits" (http://embeds.blogs.foxnews.com/2008/09/01/obama-says-palin-pregnancy-off-limits/)

[thejives]

Here's what I think the real issue is:

In 2006, Palin said sex-ed would not get her support in this questionnaire (http://eagleforumalaska.blogspot.com/2006/07/2006-gubernatorial-candidate.html). In her massive budget cuts (http://dwb.adn.com/static/images/pdf/SB53_Vetoes_6-29-07.pdf) last year she slashed funding for the Anchorage Neighborhood Health Center, which includes family planning services (http://www.anhc.org/services.htm). And she's running with McCain, who says teaching safe sex is wrong (http://www.cbn.com/CBNnews/164102.aspx).

It's great that the Palin family is coming together on this, but that's not the point. The point is that these people make policy decisions that result in schools not teaching kids how to put on a condom and slashing budgets for buildings with doctors in them that kids can visit. That makes kids' lives harder and it costs taxpayers money ($30 million in Alaska (http://www.thenationalcampaign.org/costs/pdf/states/alaska/press_release.pdf)).

As far as I'm concerned, McCain and Palin are hypocrites on this, and it's now glaringly obvious. But it would have been obvious before Bristol was pregnant.

Palin said she was against sex-ed in that political survey, but ontheissues.org has her listed as pro-contraception (http://www.ontheissues.org/Sarah_Palin_VoteMatch.htm). She's a member of feminists for life, which (appears to (http://www.womendeservebetter.com/resources/index.htm)) advocate family planning measures. Plus, she comes from Alaska, which has an excellent rating for availability of contraceptives to kids (http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/state_data/states/alaska.html). Alaska's big problems are teen parents who are unemployed and teens who are dying (http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/2006-06-27-kids-pregnancy-dropout_x.htm). From the TIME article (http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1837862,00.html?xid=rss-topstories) Zorro posted, teens having babies up there is par for the course.

There's a lot that I can agree on with the Palin family. But what I don't agree with is advocating for policy positions like abstinence-only, ending contraception programs, and opposing family planning. And that's what the story should be out of this. Bristol's name shouldn't even have to be mentioned.

[HBox]

Obama says "Off limits" (http://embeds.blogs.foxnews.com/2008/09/01/obama-says-palin-pregnancy-off-limits/)

That's surprising. I thought he would express regret that he has to wait another 4 months to tap that.

[K.C.]

Today is so fucking weird. I can only imagine what Sarah palin will bring us tomorrow.

Using retired sled dogs in an Alaskan state sponsored dogfighting circuit .

[ChrisTheCop]

From HotTub's link, but worth quoting:

Channeling Reagan, Obama says "Mr MikeyBoy...Lock up this thread!!!"

“I have heard some of the news on this and so let me be a clear as possible: I have said before and I will repeat again, I think people’s families are off limits, and people’s children are especially off limits. This shouldn’t be part of our politics,” the Democrat said forcefully. “It has no relevance to Governor Palin’s performance as governor, or her potential performance as a VP. And so I would strongly urge people to back off these kinds of stories,” he continued.

The candidate who himself was born to a teenage mom, reminded reporters, “You know my mother had me when she was 18, and how a family deals with issues and you know teenage children, that shouldn’t be the topic of our politics and I hope that anybody who is supporting me understands that’s off limits.

[IMSlacker]

"Mr MikeyBoy...Lock up this thread!!!"

But, I really think there's a chance this thread can give the FBA bomb shelter thread a run for it's money.

[K.C.]

From HotTub's link, but worth quoting:

Channeling Reagan, Obama says "Mr MikeyBoy...Lock up this thread!!!"

Whether or not they should be...the fact is that candidates children aren't off limits


Rush Limbaugh attacked Chelsea Clinton when she was a teenager calling her 'The White House dog.'

The Bush twins got absolutely savagely attacked during the 2000 election.


Oddly enough, those two were personal attacks against kids. This is actually a slightly more relevant, because Sarah Palin is running on her family story. That is her CHIEF qualification in McCain making her his choice.

He's said things to the effect of 'people will fall in love with her story as I did.'

He doesn't cite specific experience, or qualifications, or good judgments (at least not yet)...he cites her story.


So I think it's fair to discuss if that's what she's going to run on.

[Tenbatsuzen]

Today is so fucking weird. .


You're telling me. AJ posting past lunchtime? MADNESS! MAAAAAADNESS!!!!!!

[Tenbatsuzen]

From HotTub's link, but worth quoting:

Channeling Reagan, Obama says "Mr MikeyBoy...Lock up this thread!!!"

I'll quote Reagan as well and say that the posting begins in five minutes.

That being said, why CAN'T we discuss this? We're not attacking the daughter. We're discussing Palin's qualifications to lead and using her daughter's choices as that vetting.

Her daughter made some poor choices, but she's not one running for Vice President. Her mom made some unwise parenting decisions, and she IS the one running for Vice President.

Obama is responding in a way he can so it doesn't look like he's attacking a 17 year old. He's letting the talking heads do it for him.

[HBox]

I do hesitate to mention this because it is a bit sexist and their family is none of our business, BUT, she chooses to accept the VP nod on the heels of a pregnant child and newborn child with Downs syndrome?

I mean, given one of the above and I'd agree with the "People wouldn't be accusing a man of abandoning his family" but the above probably requires the attention of all available parents.

[GreatAmericanZero]

yeah its cool to discuss it

of course Obama has to say "Im not going to attack their children"..he has to say it. He'd look like an asshole of he didn't say that

but I'm a nobody. I'm an immature asshole on a messageboard for a radio show. I can make all the creampie jokes i want. Because its America!

And in the great words of R. Lee Ermy

"I don't know what I've been told, but eskimo pussy is mighty cold"

[thejives]

I think a lot of good can still come of this thread.

In time Douggrasso will start stalking Palin's other daughters we can merge it with his threesome thread.

[Hottub]

If you are running for a public office, please don't post in this thread. It may not be the best choice.
If not, have at it.

[GreatAmericanZero]

If you are running for a public office, please don't post in this thread. It may not be the best choice.
If not, have at it.

i hope this thread doesn't ruin Ron & Fez's chances of having any of the candidates on the show :innocent:

[HBox]

If you are running for a public office, please don't post in this thread. It may not be the best choice.
If not, have at it.

NOW YOU TELL ME!

Shut it down boys.

http://drakefinx2604.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/thedarkknight_02.jpg

[ChrisTheCop]

How exactly is the fact that her 17 year old daughter, who has her own brain, got pregnant Mrs Palin's FAULT?
I'm guessing those of you who blame her are not parents. You can not be in your kid's life 100% of the time. You can only give them advice and PRAY they follow it. This kid AND her boyfriend didnt follow that advice. This happens alot in everyday American family life!

The kid is old enough to answer for HER actions. If she stabbed someone at school, SHE would be arrested, not the mother. Would we be saying Mrs Palin is a failure because she always said stabbing people is wrong???

If you tell your children or followers not to do something, and they go ahead and do it anyway, and that makes you a failure and hypocrite. Then Obama is a failure because he just asked you not to discuss it... and oooooh you still are!

Every day, I change my mind as to who gets my vote, but if this is how you have to act in order to support Obama, I guess its time to change my mind again.

[thejives]

If you tell your children or followers not to do something, and they go ahead and do it anyway, and that makes you a failure and hypocrite. Then Obama is a failure because he just asked you not to discuss it... and oooooh you still are!


Like I said in my previous post, Palin isn't a hypocrite because her daughter's pregnant. She's a hypocrite because she doesn't back up her support of contraception and family planning services with policy decisions.

[GreatAmericanZero]

if this is how you have to act in order to support Obama, I guess its time to change my mind again.

sooooooooooo silly. what an over-the-top dramatic statement

[ChrisTheCop]

Like I said in my previous post, Palin isn't a hypocrite because her daughter's pregnant. She's a hypocrite because she doesn't back up her support of contraception and family planning services with policy decisions.

I did mean to commend you on your previous post for trying to change the argument to a good one, and I will now. Thank you. I like issues.

sooooooooooo silly. what an over-the-top dramatic statement

You couldve quoted any one of 50% of the posts in this thread, I'm honored you chose mine.

[Tenbatsuzen]

How exactly is the fact that her 17 year old daughter, who has her own brain, got pregnant Mrs Palin's FAULT?
I'm guessing those of you who blame her are not parents. You can not be in your kid's life 100% of the time. You can only give them advice and PRAY they follow it. This kid AND her boyfriend didnt follow that advice. This happens alot in everyday American family life!

The kid is old enough to answer for HER actions. If she stabbed someone at school, SHE would be arrested, not the mother. Would we be saying Mrs Palin is a failure because she always said stabbing people is wrong???

If you tell your children or followers not to do something, and they go ahead and do it anyway, and that makes you a failure and hypocrite. Then Obama is a failure because he just asked you not to discuss it... and oooooh you still are!

Every day, I change my mind as to who gets my vote, but if this is how you have to act in order to support Obama, I guess its time to change my mind again.

waaaaaaah.

The point is this:

Palin is pushing abstinence as part of her platform as VP. Pushing abstinence in this day and age is entirely outmoded and outdated.

No one is saying that Palin is at FAULT, but we're saying IT MAKES HER LOOK BAD. And the reason is this: if she can't parent her daughter correctly, and at least know if her daughter is having sex, that she should at least be on the pill, then what are we supposed to expect of her if she becomes president?

This isn't Bristol's fault. The fault is, it's POLITICS. And for your hope of getting McCain elected, how do you THINK this would play to the Christian conservatives, the base that helped get Bush elected twice?

It also calls into question how reckless McCain was being in his vetting of Palin. Did he or didn't he know? If he knew, he wouldn't have picked her because he KNOWS these thoughts would be popping up.

When you are this conservative, and you are a politician, and something like this happens to your family, it makes you look like a hypocrite.

[ChrisTheCop]

sooooooooooo silly. what an over-the-top dramatic statement

waaaaaaah.



Although Matty followed up with some well made points (which I still dont totally agree with),
neither of these opening lines really helped my comfort level on Obama's camp.

[Dudeman]

How exactly is the fact that her 17 year old daughter, who has her own brain, got pregnant Mrs Palin's FAULT?
I'm guessing those of you who blame her are not parents. You can not be in your kid's life 100% of the time. You can only give them advice and PRAY they follow it. This kid AND her boyfriend didnt follow that advice.

Palin is being dragged into it because she cuts funding and blocks attempts at sex-ed in the school because somewhere in the bible Jesus was pro-abstinance/anti-birth control.

[GreatAmericanZero]

and if it was the other way, the republicans have always been way more brutal than the democrats at campaign ads. They shit on John Kerry for his purple hearts

[ChrisTheCop]

Palin is being dragged into it because she cuts funding and blocks attempts at sex-ed in the school because somewhere in the bible Jesus was pro-abstinance/anti-birth control.

Then hate her for that, not because her kid got pregnant. See the difference?
The only thing her kid being preggers does in these arguments is for us to get to say "neener neener" and that doesnt hold water for me.

[Tenbatsuzen]

Also, Chris, make no mistake - I was a huge McCain supporter at the start of the year. But he's alienated me more and more as the year progressed, and the choice of Palin was the clincher.

[Tenbatsuzen]

and if it was the other way, the republicans have always been way more brutal than the democrats at campaign ads. They shit on John Kerry for his purple hearts

FWIW, Kerry shit on his purple hearts first.

[ChrisTheCop]

and if it was the other way, the republicans have always been way more brutal than the democrats at campaign ads. They shit on John Kerry for his purple hearts

and the dems shit on McCain for his service, and for being photographed with a sitting president! Yikes!!! (ok, the hug was a bit much. lol)

I agree, Kerry got railroaded in that election, and he just didnt have the stuff to bounce back from it, as Obama does. Obama is a better candidate than Kerry. Pure and Simple.

But, I just want everyone to get back to the issues, and stop talking about this poor kid.

I read most of your political threads every day, rarely commenting. I really feel that most of you guys have intelligent insight, and I value your opinions, even when I dont agree with them. But it's time for this non issue to be put to rest. There'll be something new tomorrow I'm certain.

[epo]

Did I miss anything while I was at the baseball game?

[thejives]

Don't take GAZ as the representative of Obama supporters. He's hilarious, but he's not the political figurehead. We're good people. Just look at epo and diablosammich.

[GreatAmericanZero]

Don't take GAZ as the representative of Obama supporters. He's hilarious, but he's not the political figurehead. We're good people. Just look at epo and diablosammich.

im not even really an Obama supporter. I probably won't vote at all because I'm living out of state and it seems like a hassle to vote. I just post on what I feel like is the more interesting topic. I'm sure I'm cynical and jaded about any political topic you can through at me haha

[Hottub]

Just look at epo and diablosammich.

Way to help the cause, son.

[epo]

Seriously, I heard about the daily Palin news while sitting at the game today and WOW. My initial reactions:

1. Don't ever tell me that the McCain camp did their due diligence on vetting Governor Palin. Because they obviously didn't.

2. Knowing this information, I can't believe that Governor Palin would put her family in this situation. That is the epitome of "bad family values" in my opinion. She should have said "No thanks Senator McCain."

3. Nothing is funnier than when the "family values" crowd who tell America that abstinence is better than education gets burned by their own bad policy.

4. I feel terrible for the daughter. Kids will be kids and they are gonna fuck. Sorry, it's part of the world. I only wish she and her now fiance had used contraceptives.

[celery]

I just can't see how McCain could've known about this and picked her regardless.

The Repubs are probably thankful for Gustav taking up most of the top headlines.

[Dudeman]

But, I just want everyone to get back to the issues, and stop talking about this poor kid.


Okay. Since Republicans are the party of value voters, Pat Robertson, Ralph Reed, James Dobson, Bush and Palin, lets talk about sex-ed, abstinance-only vs. brith control.

[K.C.]

2. Knowing this information, I can't believe that Governor Palin would put her family in this situation. That is the epitome of "bad family values" in my opinion. She should have said "No thanks Senator McCain."



Thank you!

I've been saying this all day.



Who subjects their teenage daughter to THIS:

http://img363.imageshack.us/img363/2494/palinzg4.jpg



She's now an international celebrity because she's knocked up. Nice.

[epo]

This situation does another thing...it solidifies Senator Obama's talking point:

"Judgment is more important than experience."

I know that John McCain is a risk-taker. But seriously, this whole situation makes him look like a crazy old man who doesn't "get it". This is a gamble that he didn't have to take.

[Dudeman]

I'm not sure how the right wing religous people think about this stuff, but if Palin wins, will her daughter be the number 1 or number 2 most sexually deviant child of a vice president, in their opinion?


http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/03Go7D41TSanS/340x.jpg

[oh_kee_pa]

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee282/matthewfuntime/Juneau.jpg

this could have been posted already... if so... oh well, enjoy it again

[TheMojoPin]

Obama's classy public statement: (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/02/us/politics/02PALINDAY.html?_r=1&partner=rssyahoo&emc=rss&oref=slogin)

Mr. Obama said the pregnancy “has no relevance to Governor Palin’s performance as a governor or her potential performance as a vice president.” He added that, “my mother had me when she was 18. How a family deals with issues and teen-age children — that shouldn’t be the topic of our politics.”

“So,” he added, “I would strongly urge people to back off these kinds of stories.”

Obama's private statement:

YAAAAHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

[celery]

first time i heard of this was on here

havent seen any tv or radio guys mention it once


guess it doesnt matter

The Hideout did a whole segment on Saturday night.

I'll be shocked if it's not the Ichiban tomorrow.

[BinaryBimbo]

waaaaaaah.

The point is this:

Palin is pushing abstinence as part of her platform as VP. Pushing abstinence in this day and age is entirely outmoded and outdated.

No one is saying that Palin is at FAULT, but we're saying IT MAKES HER LOOK BAD. And the reason is this: if she can't parent her daughter correctly, and at least know if her daughter is having sex, that she should at least be on the pill, then what are we supposed to expect of her if she becomes president?

This isn't Bristol's fault. The fault is, it's POLITICS. And for your hope of getting McCain elected, how do you THINK this would play to the Christian conservatives, the base that helped get Bush elected twice?

It also calls into question how reckless McCain was being in his vetting of Palin. Did he or didn't he know? If he knew, he wouldn't have picked her because he KNOWS these thoughts would be popping up.

When you are this conservative, and you are a politician, and something like this happens to your family, it makes you look like a hypocrite.

You keep claiming McCain didn't know the girl is pregnant, and his campaign made it clear he did know beforehand.

If you continue to lie based upon assumptions it makes the rest of your arguments just as suspect in their truthfulness.

As for this hurting the Republican ticket; I disagree for a couple of reasons. This woman really comes off as an all American Mom, and I don't think many women will let her be trashed without deciding to support the ticket just to support a woman they felt was being man handled. Religious Conservatives have children too, and they are generally more likely to rebel than kids from a more leinant upbringing; so to act as though Bible thumpers will feel she is unworthy as a parent is just to ignore reality.

I heard someone on TV say the Dems should drop this fast for some of those reasons I cited above; just as attacking Hillary for her gender was a negative those same woman will react similarly to this bullshit.

There must be 50 pages of comments here between Palins supposed moral shortcomings and lack of ability because her kid got pregnant, and the comments that her other kid had the baby Trig. I thought Democrats were supposed to be above character assasination of a candidates children. I guess it depends which side the children are on.

[Ritalin]

TTT is another guy who brought an argument from another board over here, silly.

And the platform was not the teen's platform.

All parents try to raise their children according to their values, but when the child veers away from that value system, whats a parent to do? Banish her? Pretend the kid is yours??
Family values include supporting your family when theyve made mistakes, even though those mistakes go against your political platform.

Family values also include setting your own ambitions aside for the good of a family member in need. Bristol was going to show before the election, and Sarah Palin chose to accept McCain's offer anyway, knowing full well her daughter would be dragged into the fray.

I think Sarah Palin exemplifies horrible family values.

[DiabloSammich]

Way to help the cause, son.



Don't start no shit, won't be no shit.



My only thought is this: if this was the Democrats landing this bombshell I have no doubt that the Rebulican base, McCain included, would be hammering it home as an typical case of morality-stricken Dems. The fact that Obama took the high road, was refreshing, and more importantly, fully expected.

And it's nice to have a high class gentleman like jives in this conversation.

Carry on.

[Tenbatsuzen]

You keep claiming McCain didn't know the girl is pregnant, and his campaign made it clear he did know beforehand.

If you continue to lie based upon assumptions it makes the rest of your arguments just as suspect in their truthfulness.


If McCain knew beforehand, there is no way she'd be the VP pick. Sure, the campaign is saying this now, but if he knew, she's not up there.

Troopergate, you can maybe look the other way. This? Not so much, ESPECIALLY given her stances on these particular matters.

[thejives]

Don't start no shit, won't be no shit.
And it's nice to have a high class gentleman like jives in this conversation.
Carry on.

Thanks, homes.

Your avatar is a handsome, handsome man.

[BinaryBimbo]

If McCain knew beforehand, there is no way she'd be the VP pick. Sure, the campaign is saying this now, but if he knew, she's not up there.

Troopergate, you can maybe look the other way. This? Not so much, ESPECIALLY given her stances on these particular matters.

Well I'm an Obama voter, and this does nothing except raise disgust in me that others think her childrens actions at 17 are important to this campaign.

I don't know what Alaska does; but 17 is legal age here in Michigan.

[ChrisTheCop]

You keep claiming McCain didn't know the girl is pregnant, and his campaign made it clear he did know beforehand.

If you continue to lie based upon assumptions it makes the rest of your arguments just as suspect in their truthfulness.

As for this hurting the Republican ticket; I disagree for a couple of reasons. This woman really comes off as an all American Mom, and I don't think many women will let her be trashed without deciding to support the ticket just to support a woman they felt was being man handled. Religious Conservatives have children too, and they are generally more likely to rebel than kids from a more leinant upbringing; so to act as though Bible thumpers will feel she is unworthy as a parent is just to ignore reality.

I heard someone on TV say the Dems should drop this fast for some of those reasons I cited above; just as attacking Hillary for her gender was a negative those same woman will react similarly to this bullshit.

There must be 50 pages of comments here between Palins supposed moral shortcomings and lack of ability because her kid got pregnant, and the comments that her other kid had the baby Trig. I thought Democrats were supposed to be above character assasination of a candidates children. I guess it depends which side the children are on.

NOW you show up??:wink:

Family values also include setting your own ambitions aside for the good of a family member in need. Bristol was going to show before the election, and Sarah Palin chose to accept McCain's offer anyway, knowing full well her daughter would be dragged into the fray.

I think Sarah Palin exemplifies horrible family values.

Entering the political arena in general means putting aside the needs of your family and yourself on hold. If only single people ran, we'd have alot of gay presidents I guess? I dunno. But perhaps she thought America could handle it.

If McCain knew beforehand, there is no way she'd be the VP pick. Sure, the campaign is saying this now, but if he knew, she's not up there.

Troopergate, you can maybe look the other way. This? Not so much, ESPECIALLY given her stances on these particular matters.

Maybe not the vp youd pick, or I'd pick, but there was something he liked.
If he didnt pick her SOLELY because she had a pregnant daughter, that would be headline news too I suppose.

[Tenbatsuzen]

Well I'm an Obama voter, and this does nothing except raise disgust in me that others think her childrens actions at 17 are important to this campaign.

I don't know what Alaska does; but 17 is legal age here in Michigan.

Holy crap, I've said this 18 times now. So make it 19.

THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH BRISTOL'S SEXUAL HISTORY. This has EVERYTHING to do with Palin's platform, her stances, and how it's coming back to bite her on the ass.

If her OWN DAUGHTER doesn't listen to her regarding abstinence and anti-birth control, how is the rest of the country? If she can't parent her daughter correctly, how can she preside over a country?

This has everything to do with Palin's stances on social issues being outdated and irrelevant, and the evidence of that is staring at her right in the face.

Kids are gonna have sex. Parents shouldn't turing a blind eye and saying "abstinence, abstinence, abstinence!"

[K.C.]

THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH BRISTOL'S SEXUAL HISTORY. This has EVERYTHING to do with Palin's platform, her stances, and how it's coming back to bite her on the ass.


QFT.

[K.C.]

Maybe not the vp youd pick, or I'd pick, but there was something he liked.


She has a vagina, and Hillary Clinton has a vagina.


Simple as that.


Huckabee would've been a more effective Christian Conservative pick, Romney would have been a more effective Conservative economics advocate, and Ridge would've been a more effective NeoCon foreign policy advocate.


It was a genitalia pick.

[ChrisTheCop]

Holy crap, I've said this 18 times now. So make it 19.

THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH BRISTOL'S SEXUAL HISTORY. This has EVERYTHING to do with Palin's platform, her stances, and how it's coming back to bite her on the ass.

If her OWN DAUGHTER doesn't listen to her regarding abstinence and anti-birth control, how is the rest of the country? If she can't parent her daughter correctly, how can she preside over a country?

This has everything to do with Palin's stances on social issues being outdated and irrelevant, and the evidence of that is staring at her right in the face.

Kids are gonna have sex. Parents shouldn't turing a blind eye and saying "abstinence, abstinence, abstinence!"

If youve said something 19 times, and no one buys it, maybe it's time to say something else. Just because it's her platform doesnt mean we're gonna get it shoved down our throats; thats no way to run a country either.

Also--there were plenty of people who voted and still want to vote for Hillary, who couldnt watch her man....how could she run a country wasnt a valid argument then, and it isnt now.

[thejives]

I don't know what Alaska does; but 17 is legal age here in Michigan.

Looks like it's 16 (http://www.ageofconsent.com/alaska.htm), but there are a lot of provisos if the offender is more than three years older. From the articles it seems like the husband-to-be is roughly the same age.

[epo]

To me this whole Juneau Juno thing has very little to do with the Palin family and everything to do with Senator McCain.

For month's he has looked the American people in the eye and told us that we live in dangerous times, perhaps the most of dangerous times. These times demand that we choose leadership with the experience and knowledge to make the right decisions for the nation. Then when he was faced with his first opportunity to "put country first" and select a running mate, someone who should be ready immediate in these dangerous times to be a heartbeat away from the Presidency he chooses:

Governor Sarah Palin.

Honestly, Senator John McCain is no longer a serious person.

[ChrisTheCop]

Looks like it's 16 (http://www.ageofconsent.com/alaska.htm), but there are a lot of provisos if the offender is more than three years older. From the articles it seems like the husband-to-be is roughly the same age.

So, there's no offender.

[epo]

THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH BRISTOL'S SEXUAL HISTORY. This has EVERYTHING to do with Palin's platform, her stances, and how it's coming back to bite her on the ass.


The irony is rich.

[thejives]

So, there's no offender.

Doesn't look like it right now. And I'm not looking for one. I just think kids should be able to get free condoms.

So don't hit me.

[HBox]

I've said this before and I'll say it again: Sarah Palin is ripping this board apart.

[Tenbatsuzen]

The irony is rich.

How so?

[Tenbatsuzen]

I've said this before and I'll say it again: Sarah Palin is ripping this board apart.

It all comes down to sex. Obama is here because of sex, and McCain's ticket may get damaged because of sex.

[epo]

How so?

For the reasons you pointed out. The hardline christian conservative bit driving government and then having that very skewed policy affect your family.

[AKA]

THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH BRISTOL'S SEXUAL HISTORY. This has EVERYTHING to do with Palin's platform, her stances, and how it's coming back to bite her on the ass.

My only thought is this: if this was the Democrats landing this bombshell I have no doubt that the Rebulican base, McCain included, would be hammering it home as an typical case of morality-stricken Dems. The fact that Obama took the high road, was refreshing, and more importantly, fully expected.

I can't agree more with both of these statements.

The Grand Old Party and their media minions would be having an aneurism of joy right now if this story had broke with one of the Democrats - especially if it had happened to a family of a politician who was so identified with a wagging finger at the rest of the world - time and again this happens with people who love to lecture the rest of us how to live, raise our children, how we are wrong if we differ in opinion, but inside their own home they lead a different story.

McCain is a phony - Palin is a phony.

[BinaryBimbo]

For the reasons you pointed out. The hardline christian conservative bit driving government and then having that very skewed policy affect your family.

Yeah. But is anyone really surprised here?

Don't we all know of a Preachers kid who is the wildest one at the party?

People tell their kids not to drink, or drug too; but no one labels them failed parents because little Johhny becomes a crack head.

What you said above in the other post makes a lot of sense to me; McCain may eat crap on this if this lady turns out to be a Harriet Myers type choice. The kid being pregnant is truly a non issue though.

At leat Obama has the good sense to tell others to leave her kids out of this.

[DiabloSammich]

At leat Obama has the good sense to tell others to leave her kids out of this.



How 'bout I leave THIS out of her kids?!?!? (grabs crotch)







Haha. That always cracks me up.

[sailor]

and kids of folks who promote contraceptive use never get pregnant, i'm sure. i think none of you are serious people anymore.

[GreatAmericanZero]

and kids of folks who promote contraceptive use never get pregnant, i'm sure. i think none of you are serious people anymore.

they do, but they aren't running for V.P. in the 2008 election.


duh.

[ChrisTheCop]

they do, but they aren't running for V.P. in the 2008 election.


duh.

show me a republican without family problems, and i'll show you a democrat who wasnt accused of plagiarism and lying about, then forgetting to continue to lie about, a childhood disease.

adoy.

[thejives]

and kids of folks who promote contraceptive use never get pregnant, i'm sure. i think none of you are serious people anymore.

they do, but they aren't running for V.P. in the 2008 election.

And they aren't taking money away from programs that would get other kids condoms, sex-ed teachers, and clinics.

[GreatAmericanZero]

show me a republican without family problems, and i'll show you a democrat who wasnt accused of plagiarism and lying about, then forgetting to continue to lie about, a childhood disease.

adoy.

that is such a boring mouthful. C'mon, it can't hold a candle to hot teen sex. Hot Teen Sex always wins in the end for the headines

[ChrisTheCop]

that is such a boring mouthful. C'mon, it can't hold a candle to hot teen sex. Hot Teen Sex always wins in the end for the headines

Why couldnt she have been fucking a celeb?At least then thered be a video leaked by now.

[DiabloSammich]

blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah...hot teen sex. Hot Teen Sex ...blah, blah, blah, blah




zzzzzzz..Hmm? Wha??

[HBox]

::runs in the room::

DID SOMEBODY SAY HOT TEEN SEX?

[GreatAmericanZero]

Why couldnt she have been fucking a celeb?At least then thered be a video leaked by now.

id watch it

[thejives]

zzzzzzz..Hmm? Wha??

DID SOMEBODY SAY HOT TEEN SEX?

Yes. It was you.

[epo]

id watch it

Sure. But would you pay for it?

[Hottub]

Sure. But would you pay for it?

Thanks to Al Gore and his amazing interwebs, we wouldn't have to.:thumbup:

[GreatAmericanZero]

Thanks to Al Gore and his amazing interwebs, we wouldn't have to.:thumbup:

yes


i was worried about committing on a public website "yes i'd pay for a video of an underage girl having sex" haha

[Tenbatsuzen]

The most important lesson I've ever learned from my 9+ years of listening to O&A:

Everything is hotter with the word "teen" in it.

[epo]

yes


i was worried about committing on a public website "yes i'd pay for a video of an underage girl having sex" haha

I still could be a beautiful mod quote.

[Don Stugots]

mmmmmmmm, hot teen sex.

[JerseySean]

That didn't happen. This was all blog based, and even the most respectable blogs wouldn't touch it.

DailyKos, most widely read liberal blog, actually posted, ran with the story, called Palin a liar and then accused her of wearing a pregnancy suit.

[Dudeman]

And they aren't taking money away from programs that would get other kids condoms, sex-ed teachers, and clinics.

thanks for posting this so i don't have to

[TheMojoPin]

DailyKos, most widely read liberal blog, actually posted, ran with the story, called Palin a liar and then accused her of wearing a pregnancy suit.

Gotcha. Widely read = legit and respected.

Guess Matt Drudge is the greatest journalist who ever lived.

[epo]

DailyKos, most widely read liberal blog, actually posted, ran with the story, called Palin a liar and then accused her of wearing a pregnancy suit.

I think you need to understand how DailyKos generally works. There are three types of posts:

1. Diaries. Diaries can be posted by anybody who has been a member for a week. They are very much like threads on RonFez.net. The moderators do not control these diaries.

2. Posts. Responses to the diaries by users. You must be a member to respond. The moderators do not control these posts.

3. Stories. The stories can be written by the moderators or be diaries that are approved by the moderators of the site. They clearly receive the most attention.

The "pregnancy suit" diary was posted by a user and got some comments. It was never upgraded to the level of a "story". Calling the pregnancy suit diary a DailyKos story is just silly.

Please understand your subject before trying to light it on fire.

[HBox]

Gotcha. Widely read = legit and respected.

Guess Matt Drudge is the greatest journalist who ever lived.

I'm Brigadier General Libby Liberalton and I never read Kos nor respect it.

[TheMojoPin]

I'm Brigadier General Libby Liberalton and I never read Kos nor respect it.

I read Kos, but it's still just a blog. It's essentially a political gossip site. Them running with that story reflects on them, not "the liberals." Most people have no idea what that site is, nor do they care.

[thejives]

Gotcha. Widely read = legit and respected.

Guess Matt Drudge is the greatest journalist who ever lived.

I think you need to understand how DailyKos generally works. There are three types of posts...


You seriously think he doesn't know this? Redstate works the same way.

This guy is intellectually dishonest and a ridiculous waste of time and energy. He's here to raise your blood pressure, not have any kind of discussion. He's on my ignore list and he should be on everyone's.

[epo]

I read Kos, but it's still just a blog. It's essentially a political gossip site.

I do to. Kos serves a pretty basic purpose for me as it directs me to stories that I hadn't seen and links me to them.

Most diaries are terrible and 99% of posts are ridiculous.

[Tenbatsuzen]

KOS and Drudge are the political equivalent of TMZ without implants.

[JerseySean]

show me a republican without family problems, and i'll show you a democrat who wasnt accused of plagiarism and lying about, then forgetting to continue to lie about, a childhood disease.

adoy.

This will play well with conservatives. If you want to talk about VP families

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/23/AR2008082302200.html

[GreatAmericanZero]

This will play well with conservatives. If you want to talk about VP families

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/23/AR2008082302200.html

but like i said before..i read one paragraph of that article and I'm bored

on the other side


TEEN SEX

[epo]

This will play well with conservatives. If you want to talk about VP families

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/23/AR2008082302200.html

Your problem is that you are just throwing mud just to try to distract.

1. Biden's issues are a known quantity.

and this is the big one....

2. Sarah Palin is a "new" politician to the American press & most of the populus. Since she has no definition and the McCain campaign isn't defining her with anything other than general statements we need info. The blog world and the mainstream media are telling you who she is.

The best advice I can give to any conservative is to admit that Governor Palin was an awful choice and save your credibility. Or don't and let me laugh at you...........

[JerseySean]

I think you need to understand how DailyKos generally works. There are three types of posts:

Please understand your subject before trying to light it on fire.

I didnt know that. I ceoncede that point to you.

[scottinnj]

Good idea. 2 parties? blech...1 is all we need.


Honestly, Trooper Gate is a much better story as to how she handles her political life.

Yes, this is true. But the kid being pregnant points to a problem with the McCain campaign.

This was kept from the public. Simple as that. Either it's because the campaign didn't do its job vetting her, or they did and decided before the announcement to keep this from the public.

Either way, it points to a credibility problem with McCain.

[frye hole]

This will play well with conservatives. If you want to talk about VP families

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/23/AR2008082302200.html

More VP family news:

"Biden's Son Off to Iraq"

By Shailagh Murray
"As Sen. Barack Obama closes in on his running mate pick, one prospect with clear momentum is Sen. Joseph Biden Jr.

Even difficult news for the Delaware Democrat personally has added a compelling twist to his case. On Oct. 3, Biden's son, Joseph Robinette "Beau" Biden III, will be deployed to Iraq.

"I don't want him going," Biden told an Iowa state fair crowd a year ago, when, as a presidential candidate himself, he learned that his son's unit would be deployed at some point in 2008. "But I don't want my grandsons or granddaughters going back in 15 years. So how we leave makes a big difference."

Beau is the Delaware attorney general and a captain in the Army National Guard. He is the oldest of Biden's two sons with his first wife, Neilia. She was killed in a car accident, along with the couple's 1-year-old daughter Naomi, shortly after Biden was elected to his first Senate term. "

How come we hear more about Palin's son going to Iraq than Biden's?

[scottinnj]

and if it was the other way, the republicans have always been way more brutal than the democrats at campaign ads. They shit on John Kerry for his purple hearts

That wasn't the republicans. Granted they didn't do anything to stop it, but it was a 527 that did that.

And it was disgusting, to me, who was at the time a registered republican.

[JerseySean]

Yes, this is true. But the kid being pregnant points to a problem with the McCain campaign.

This was kept from the public. Simple as that. Either it's because the campaign didn't do its job vetting her, or they did and decided before the announcement to keep this from the public.

Either way, it points to a credibility problem with McCain.

That is a HUGE stretch to call it a credibility problem. I am sure that was a personal family issue as Obama stated today.

"I have said before and I will repeat again, I think people's families are off limits," Obama declared after attending a Labor Day picnic here. "People's children are especially off limits. This shouldn't be part of our politics. It has no relevance to Gov. Palin's performance as a governor or her potential performance as a vice president. So I would strongly urge people to back off these kinds of stories."

He continued, "You know, my mother had me when she was 18. How family deals with issues and teenage children, that shouldn't be the topic of our politics. I hope that anybody who's supported me understands that's off limits."

[scottinnj]

How come we hear more about Palin's son going to Iraq than Biden's?

Because she was for her son going to Iraq before she was against her son going to Iraq.

[JerseySean]

That wasn't the republicans. Granted they didn't do anything to stop it, but it was a 527 that did that.

And it was disgusting, to me, who was at the time a registered republican.

Republicans are much nastier in TV ads and on the campaign level by far. However, I think the liberal bloggers and comments are much nastier than conservative ones. Would you guys agree that for the most part these things are true.

[Dudeman]

And they aren't taking money away from programs that would get other kids condoms, sex-ed teachers, and clinics.

Yes, this is true. But the kid being pregnant points to a problem with the McCain campaign.

This was kept from the public. Simple as that. Either it's because the campaign didn't do its job vetting her, or they did and decided before the announcement to keep this from the public.

Either way, it points to a credibility problem with McCain.

I think it points to problems not only with abstinance only policies, but with others forcing their choices on sex education on the rest of us.

[BinaryBimbo]

Yes, this is true. But the kid being pregnant points to a problem with the McCain campaign.

This was kept from the public. Simple as that. Either it's because the campaign didn't do its job vetting her, or they did and decided before the announcement to keep this from the public.

Either way, it points to a credibility problem with McCain.

Three days after the pick it is public and this was kept from the public?

You guys are trying way too hard to make this something it isn't.

Read this, and tell me all the Bible thumpers won't forgive and support her:
GOP VP candidate Palin's daughter is pregnant
17-year-old Bristol to keep the child and marry the father
Video

Palin daughter, 17, pregnant
Sept. 1: The 17-year-old daughter of Republican vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin is pregnant, according to a statement released by John McCain's campaign. NBC's Chuck Todd reports.

updated 12:07 p.m. ET, Mon., Sept. 1, 2008
ST. PAUL - John McCain's running mate Sarah Palin said Monday that her 17-year-old unmarried daughter is five months pregnant, an announcement campaign aides said was aimed at rebutting Internet rumors that Palin's youngest son, born in April, was actually her daughter's.

A statement released by the campaign said that Bristol Palin will keep her baby and marry the child's father. Bristol Palin's baby is due in late December.

"Our beautiful daughter Bristol came to us with news that as parents we knew would make her grow up faster than we had ever planned. We're proud of Bristol's decision to have her baby and even prouder to become grandparents," Sarah and Todd Palin said in the brief statement.

The disclosure of the pregnancy came on the opening day of the Republican National Convention, scaled back because of Hurricane Gustav, and three days after McCain named Palin as his running mate. The other news was likely to overshadow the disclosure.

The first-term Alaska governor was in Minnesota preparing for her acceptance speech when the campaign issued the statement; her family was home in Alaska.

"Bristol and the young man she will marry are going to realize very quickly the difficulties of raising a child, which is why they will have the love and support of our entire family," they added.

The father was identified in the statement as Levi, but the campaign said it was not disclosing his full name or age or how he and Bristol know each other, citing privacy.

Sarah Palin's fifth child, a son named Trig, was born in April with Down syndrome. Internet bloggers have been suggesting that the child was actually born to Bristol Palin but that her mother, the 44-year-old Alaska governor, claimed to be the mother.

Palin spokesman Bill McAllister emphatically denied those rumors, and McCain adviser Mark Salter said the campaign announced the daughter's pregnancy to rebut them.

'Life happens'
"Senator McCain's view is this is a private family matter. As parents, (the Palins) love their daughter unconditionally and are going to support their daughter," said McCain spokesman Steve Schmidt.

"Life happens," he said.

"An American family," added Salter.

The advisers said Palin told them about the pregnancy during lengthy discussions about her background. At several points during the discussions, McCain's team warned Palin that the scrutiny into her private life would be intense and that there was nothing she could do to prepare for it.

Advisers said Palin's daughter should be afforded privacy like the other candidates' children. Said Schmidt: "If people try to politicize this, the American people will be appalled."

Family is 'off limits'
In Monroe, Mich., Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama condemned rumors involving the children of candidates and echoed the McCain campaign argument. Said Obama: "I think people's families are off limits, and people's children are especially off limits." Obama adamantly denied anonymous claims that his campaign helped spread the rumors.

"I am offended by that statement," Obama said. "Our people were not involved in any way in this, and they will not be. And if I ever thought that there was somebody in my campaign that was involved in something like that, they'd be fired."

Prominent religious conservatives, many of whom have been lukewarm toward McCain's candidacy, predicted that Palin's daughter's pregnancy would not diminish conservative Christian enthusiasm for the vice presidential hopeful, a staunch abortion opponent.

Focus on the Family founder James Dobson issued a statement commending the Palins for "for not just talking about their pro-life and pro-family values, but living them out even in the midst of trying circumstances." He added: "Being a Christian does not mean you're perfect. Nor does it mean your children are perfect. But it does mean there is forgiveness and restoration when we confess our imperfections to the Lord."

Roberta Combs, president of the Christian Coalition of America called the pregnancy private. "It's a matter that should stay in the family and they have to work through it together. My prayers go out to them."

Added Combs: "We're excited about the governor and think she's going to do well."

Mathew Staver, dean of Liberty University School of Law, said: "We're all sinners."

"We all make mistakes. Certainly, the ideal is not to get pregnant out of wedlock. But she made the right decision after her mistake," he said.



Who besides a few Democratics on Bulletin boards thinks this is a deal breaker? Look who is saying what in that article and then admit that only Dem Party hacks are concerned about this pregnancy.

[scottinnj]

That is a HUGE stretch to call it a credibility problem.

How is it huge? Forget all the family values politics they have.

1. They knew the girl was pregnant, and decided to keep it quiet.

2. They didn't know the girl was pregnant, found out after the announcement, and then decided to keep it quiet.

The first scenario shows a willingness to lie to the public.

The second scenario shows a problem with McCain's staff (who a lot of will remain with him if elected) in giving him credible information to make decisions with. And when caught, will lie to the public.

[scottinnj]

Republicans are much nastier in TV ads and on the campaign level by far. However, I think the liberal bloggers and comments are much nastier than conservative ones. Would you guys agree that for the most part these things are true.

Yeah, I can agree with that.

[Friday]

He continued, "You know, my mother had me when she was 18. How family deals with issues and teenage children, that shouldn't be the topic of our politics. I hope that anybody who's supported me understands that's off limits."

i was glad Obama reminded the public of his mother's situation and took the high road.

the media will not do the same... (it's already the lead story here)...but the fact that he made it known that these stories are 'off limits' was an important step he needed to take.

[JerseySean]

How is it huge? Forget all the family values politics they have.

1. They knew the girl was pregnant, and decided to keep it quiet.

2. They didn't know the girl was pregnant, found out after the announcement, and then decided to keep it quiet.

The first scenario shows a willingness to lie to the public.

The second scenario shows a problem with McCain's staff (who a lot of will remain with him if elected) in giving him credible information to make decisions with. And when caught, will lie to the public.

Why is the question of whether she is pregnant or not anyones business?

McCain

"I would like to introduce my running mate, Governor Sarah Palin and her pregnant daughter Bristol!!!"

WHOOOOO!!!

Are you fuckin kidding me?

[BinaryBimbo]

Because she was for her son going to Iraq before she was against her son going to Iraq.

Now you are just lying to hear yourself speak.

Try to argue from facts once in a while.

We were well informed that Bidens kid is headed to action; just because you didn't listen doesn't make it wrong.

I'm not saying Kerry did not earn his Purple Hearts; but he is the only person I ever heard of from the VietNam conflict that got three Purple Hearts and no long term injuries to show for them. He WAS publically for the war and then publically against it - you have no idea what Palin's view on war are.

My Father earned a Purple Heart in 'Nam; it also earned him a grave in Arlinton National Cemetary. A lot of guys rightly questioned why Kerry was getting medals for scratches when the average troop wouldn't take a Purple Heart for anything less than a catostrophic injury.

[K.C.]

Why is the question of whether she is pregnant or not anyones business?

McCain

"I would like to introduce my running mate, Governor Sarah Palin and her pregnant daughter Bristol!!!"

WHOOOOO!!!

Are you fuckin kidding me?


This is the last time I'll say this since I've said it at least 33 times earlier in this thread and my fingers are starting to blister.



When you run on Christian Conservatism, family values, abstinence, and your down home feel good family story as your chief qualifications for being VP.

...let's just say it doesn't reflect kindly that you have a knocked up unwed teenage daughter.

And furthermore, when you run on ALL that...you make your family a target for ambitious media types who like to dig.


And lastly, when you know your teenage daughter is pregnant, and could be subject to such ridicule BEFORE you accept, and still thrust yourself into a National campaign that will attract a lot of unwanted attention to her...kind of irresponsible.

That's the last I'll say on Bristol Palin.

[brettmojo]

So wait... McCain's VP has a daughter that's been knocked up twice before the age of 18 which at least shows that she can't control her kids. Now that doesn't make you question her ability to be 2nd in command of the most powerful nation on Earth? :blink:

[BinaryBimbo]

i was glad Obama reminded the public of his mother's situation and took the high road.

the media will not do the same... (it's already the lead story here)...but the fact that he made it known that these stories are 'off limits' was an important step he needed to take.

Agreed; It's too bad some of his supporters wish to try and find a political cherry in the young lady's personal life. I understand what Chris the Cop means when he says that you people are making him switch his opinions almost daily on who to vote for. This sort of character assasination of the Daughters is disgusting behavior imo.

[BinaryBimbo]

So wait... McCain's VP has a daughter that's been knocked up twice before the age of 18 which at least shows that she can't control her kids. Now that doesn't make you question her ability to be 2nd in command of the most powerful nation on Earth? :blink:

Hows does it feel to be a liar, ignorant, or both?

One pregnancy of one Daugther. Try to educate yourself before you do more damage than harm to Obamas campaign.

[brettmojo]

Hows does it feel to be a liar, ignorant, or both?

One pregnancy of one Daugther. Try to educate yourself before you do more damage than harm to Obamas campaign.
Yeah ummm... Maybe you need to search around some threads on this very message board.

Like the beginning of this one maybe.

[mikeyboy]

I understand that people get heated about this stuff, please don't resort to personal attacks. It undermines your arguments and it isn't permitted here. People have been generally good about this, with some exceptions. If you can't argue your point without attacking other posters, please stay out of these threads.

[Friday]

I understand that people get heated about this stuff, please don't resort to personal attacks. It undermines your arguments and it isn't permitted here. People have been generally good about this, with some exceptions. If you can't argue your point without attacking other posters, please stay out of these threads.

yeah!

and be nice to the refugees.
they have been through a lot these past weeks!

[scottinnj]

Now you are just lying to hear yourself speak.

Try to argue from facts once in a while.

We were well informed that Bidens kid is headed to action; just because you didn't listen doesn't make it wrong.

I'm not saying Kerry did not earn his Purple Hearts; but he is the only person I ever heard of from the VietNam conflict that got three Purple Hearts and no long term injuries to show for them. He WAS publically for the war and then publically against it - you have no idea what Palin's view on war are.

My Father earned a Purple Heart in 'Nam; it also earned him a grave in Arlinton National Cemetary. A lot of guys rightly questioned why Kerry was getting medals for scratches when the average troop wouldn't take a Purple Heart for anything less than a catostrophic injury.


Dude, lighten up. I was making a funny.

[JerseySean]

This is the last time I'll say this since I've said it at least 33 times earlier in this thread and my fingers are starting to blister.



When you run on Christian Conservatism, family values, abstinence, and your down home feel good family story as your chief qualifications for being VP.

...let's just say it doesn't reflect kindly that you have a knocked up unwed teenage daughter.

And furthermore, when you run on ALL that...you make your family a target for ambitious media types who like to dig.


And lastly, when you know your teenage daughter is pregnant, and could be subject to such ridicule BEFORE you accept, and still thrust yourself into a National campaign that will attract a lot of unwanted attention to her...kind of irresponsible.

That's the last I'll say on Bristol Palin.

Thats where you DONT GET IT. Sarah Palin's Daughter getting pregnant has nothing to do with her ability to lead. Moreover, it would be like having a kid who has a drug issue. The bottom line is most people know someone with a problem like that or like this girl. If anything Palin has instilled the family values in her daughter to take responsibility for this. This is where your partisanship blinds you. Christian conservatives love this.

[epo]

Hows does it feel to be a liar, ignorant, or both?

One pregnancy of one Daugther. Try to educate yourself before you do more damage than harm to Obamas campaign.

Binary - I don't think BrettMojo meant anything by it. Very much earlier in this thread we were all making fun of the ridiculous "Trig is Bristol's" baby story. It got silly as we mocked bullshit talking points and I'm sure he was just referencing that.

[IMSlacker]

Christian conservatives love this.

Teen sex? I knew it!

[JerseySean]

Teen sex? I knew it!

haha

[scottinnj]

Why is the question of whether she is pregnant or not anyones business?

McCain

"I would like to introduce my running mate, Governor Sarah Palin and her pregnant daughter Bristol!!!"

WHOOOOO!!!

Are you fuckin kidding me?

Let me turn that "Are you fucking kidding me?" around on you.

Do you really think an unwed 17 year old daughter of a pro-life, pro-abstinence sex ed VP candidate was going to go unnoticed or unreported?
Are you fucking kidding me?

[BinaryBimbo]

Yeah ummm... Maybe you need to search around some threads on this very message board.

Like the beginning of this one maybe.

You obviously mistook the a misinformed statement for fact.

I don't know if Mikey is yelling at me or not; but you are looking very ignorant about now.

One Daughter - One pregnancy.

Go ahead and repeat whatever you want to; but if you want to know the truth I suggest you are the one who needs to do more research.

[GreatAmericanZero]

Thats where you DONT GET IT. Sarah Palin's Daughter getting pregnant has nothing to do with her ability to lead. Moreover, it would be like having a kid who has a drug issue. The bottom line is most people know someone with a problem like that or like this girl. If anything Palin has instilled the family values in her daughter to take responsibility for this. This is where your partisanship blinds you. Christian conservatives love this.

i think it does show her inability to lead. She believes in abstinence. She couldn't get her own daughter to not fall victim of a luscious giant hockey player cock. That makes me think, as a voter, "gee, she can't even get her daughter not to get fucked when she clearly believes that premarital sex isn't cool. therefore she can't convince a country to end their nuclear program or convince someone not to attack israel". There have been millions of women that were able to convince their daughter not to get pregnant before marriage and they never even ran for Vice President!

like it or not, im a voter and that is the genuine conclusion i reach

[JerseySean]

Let me turn that around on you.

Do you really think an unwed 17 year old daughter of a pro-life, pro-abstinence sex ed VP candidate was going to go unnoticed or unreported?

No but the question is mistrust, and not making an "announcement" before today doesnt mean they had a credibility problem. That is a reach man.

[BinaryBimbo]

Binary - I don't think BrettMojo meant anything by it. Very much earlier in this thread we were all making fun of the ridiculous "Trig is Bristol's" baby story. It got silly as we mocked bullshit talking points and I'm sure he was just referencing that.

Hard to say. I called him out on it and I think Mikey considers it a persoanle attack.

Sorry; but it IS a lie, an ignorant statement, or propaganda meant to mislead, and I thought this was a serious discussion.

[epo]

No but the question is mistrust, and not making an "announcement" before today doesnt mean they had a credibility problem. That is a reach man.

Here is a question for you: If it wasn't a big deal, why wasn't it announced before today?

[BinaryBimbo]

i think it does show her inability to lead. She believes in abstinence. She couldn't get her own daughter to not fall victim of a luscious giant hockey player cock. That makes me think, as a voter, "gee, she can't even get her daughter not to get fucked when she clearly believes that premarital sex isn't cool. therefore she can't convince a country to end their nuclear program or convince someone not to attack israel". There have been millions of women that were able to convince their daughter not to get pregnant before marriage and they never even ran for Vice President!

like it or not, im a voter and that is the genuine conclusion i reach

This is not a serious discussion. It can't be.

[Friday]

You obviously mistook the a misinformed statement for fact.

I don't know if Mikey is yelling at me or not; but you are looking very ignorant about now.

One Daughter - One pregnancy.

Go ahead and repeat whatever you want to; but if you want to know the truth I suggest you are the one who needs to do more research.

Mikey is yelling at you.
because before you attacked our new mojo, we had all been quite civil and even humorous about debating this issue.

you need to relax and realize that you live in America.. where bloggers and the media will do what they will with any information.
yes, it may be far fetched, but hey... the bloggers had some interesting points.
and even if it is untrue... this is a message board... where people of all walks of life put forth their opinions and judgments.

so sit back, relax, debate, whatever... but don't get personal.
because you know as little about brettmojo's real persona as we all know about you.

[GreatAmericanZero]

This is not a serious discussion. It can't be.

i pepper in humor but in all seriousness, if your daughter gets pregnant at 17, i believe you are a bad mother. I truly do. And being a mother is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay easier than being president. If you can't be a good mother, I totally believe you can't be a good president

[scottinnj]

My Father earned a Purple Heart in 'Nam; it also earned him a grave in Arlinton National Cemetary. A lot of guys rightly questioned why Kerry was getting medals for scratches when the average troop wouldn't take a Purple Heart for anything less than a catostrophic injury.


We can go round and round on this. As a veteran, I thought the swift-boaters were disgusting. Discussions on whether medals were earned or not are conversations to be kept in the VFW. As far as Kerry's public records go, his DD214 has records of medals-and to the civilian public at large, a discussion like that is largely misunderstood, and calls into question the very method on how decorations are awarded.

Did I see soldiers get ribbons they didn't deserve? Yes. Is it your business? Nope, that's between him and the rest of the guys in the unit.

And what it did was even worse. It took away the conservatives ability to debate Kerry's PUBLIC policy towards the military as a lawmaker. We were constantly back-peddaling trying to stay as faaaar away from that bunch of crap as possible.

[scottinnj]

No but the question is mistrust, and not making an "announcement" before today doesnt mean they had a credibility problem. That is a reach man.

But you do see where I'm coming from right?

[BinaryBimbo]

Thats where you DONT GET IT. Sarah Palin's Daughter getting pregnant has nothing to do with her ability to lead. Moreover, it would be like having a kid who has a drug issue. The bottom line is most people know someone with a problem like that or like this girl. If anything Palin has instilled the family values in her daughter to take responsibility for this. This is where your partisanship blinds you. Christian conservatives love this.

I tried to explain that to them; but they are not really serious. This is nothing but a collection of dishonest statements that doesn't match the rhetoric about modern leadership, ethics, honesty, and change.

[brettmojo]

You obviously mistook the a misinformed statement for fact.

I don't know if Mikey is yelling at me or not; but you are looking very ignorant about now.

One Daughter - One pregnancy.

Go ahead and repeat whatever you want to; but if you want to know the truth I suggest you are the one who needs to do more research.

So I take it you're assuming the youngest kid isn't actually hers then because fortunately... Those rumors can be dispelled because she's just pregnant now?

Very convenient.

[epo]

This is not a serious discussion. It can't be.

Here I think is the serious discussion: The nation currently needs leadership that rises above politics and delivers the type of judgment that solves the problems of today, while putting us on the right track for tomorrow.

Senator Obama chose a VP pick in Joe Biden whom could be president tomorrow.

Senator McCain chose a VP pick in Governor Palin who one could question her ability, a pick whose reason many will state was made to "firm up the base".

So that is questionable judgment.

Now, look at the track record of Governor Palin. The attachment to the Alaska Independence Party. The problems with "TrooperGate". The connections to Ted Stevens, Abramhoff, et. al. And now the irony of being a governor who is basically against teaching sex education in the schools in a meaningful way, and having a 17 year old daughter who is with child.

That's a serious judgment problem for John McCain and THATS why this whole thing is a story.

[GreatAmericanZero]

So I take it you're assuming the youngest kid isn't actually hers then because fortunately... Those rumors can be dispelled because she's just pregnant now?

Very convenient.

oh interesting, maybe they are faking THIS pregnancy so it doesnt look like the mom lied about the previous one


very cunning. very very cunning

[BinaryBimbo]

Mikey is yelling at you.
because before you attacked our new mojo, we had all been quite civil and even humorous about debating this issue.

you need to relax and realize that you live in America.. where bloggers and the media will do what they will with any information.
yes, it may be far fetched, but hey... the bloggers had some interesting points.
and even if it is untrue... this is a message board... where people of all walks of life put forth their opinions and judgments.

so sit back, relax, debate, whatever... but don't get personal.
because you know as little about brettmojo's real persona as we all know about you.

Point taken.

I did not mean my statements as a personal attack on Brett.
I apologize to you Brett.
I am passionate about the subject is all, and simply wish to have a more honest debate.

[Tenbatsuzen]

I'm tapping out for the night. my points have been made, and the only rebuttals have been a distinct opposite-world view of what Christian Conservatives love, and "are you serious".

I'll leave with this final thought:

When the Kos shit broke yesterday, I was thinking to myself, "Now that it's untrue, they are gonna give the kid a hell of a eating disorder, if she was only chubby."

The girl has been thrust into the spotlight. Palin knew this. Bad parenting.

[scottinnj]

One Daughter - One pregnancy.

ONE MAN-ONE VOTE! BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY!








Sorry dude, I had to do it. That's another "funny"

[GreatAmericanZero]

"

The girl has been thrust into the spotlight. Palin knew this. Bad parenting.

yeah she is a horrible parent for this. I couldn't imagine a more selfish act then throwing your daughter's personal life under the bus so she can be a nationwide joke just for the opportunity of furthering your political career. Putting your family before your career my ass!


and also, i would think in a family where you have a new infant and a pregnant teenage daughter, thats a lot of work. A lot of attention would be needed to that family. I don't really see the time to squeeze in a campaign for vice president. its such bullshit. it sounds so obscenely selfish to me and i would say that even if it was a male candidate with the same family situation

[BinaryBimbo]

i pepper in humor but in all seriousness, if your daughter gets pregnant at 17, i believe you are a bad mother. I truly do. And being a mother is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay easier than being president. If you can't be a good mother, I totally believe you can't be a good president

I disagree whole heartedly.

Half of teenaged girls in the ghetto have VD. 25% of all teenaged girls have VD.

According to your logic than mean most Moms are deficient because you don't catch VD eating marshmellows.

If the Mom doesn't get the kid to school, or doesn't provide medical, moral, or financial support to a child; that is a bad parent. A young lady getting pregnant after reaching legal age can only be wrong in your personal view because it is both legal, and common place for 17 year old women to concieve. So the kid didn't follow the Moms views; it really doesn't make her a bad Governor or potential Veep.

[BinaryBimbo]

ONE MAN-ONE VOTE! BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY!








Sorry dude, I had to do it. That's another "funny"

Yeah np. I was simply confused thinking everyone was actually serious, and it drove me to excess.:smile:

[GreatAmericanZero]

I disagree whole heartedly.

Half of teenaged girls in the ghetto have VD. 25% of all teenaged girls have VD.

According to your logic than mean most Moms are deficient because you don't catch VD eating marshmellows.

If the Mom doesn't get the kid to school, or doesn't provide medical, moral, or financial support to a child; that is a bad parent. A young lady getting pregnant after reaching legal age can only be wrong in your personal view because it is both legal, and common place for 17 year old women to concieve. So the kid didn't follow the Moms views; it really doesn't make her a bad Governor or potential Veep.

hey to be president or vice president, you should be an exceptional mom. we aren't talking about who should lead the PTA here. Sorry I have standards for my country.

and also she is a horrific mother for the stuff i wrote in my last post. The more i talk about this woman the more i hate her.

[Sinestro]

How bout from Bristol's boyfriend's point of view:

"Holy shit! I could be going to the White house"

Is he able to support his upcoming family or will they be receiving some type of government assistance?

[scottinnj]

Yeah np. I was simply confused thinking everyone was actually serious, and it drove me to excess.:smile:

It's all good dude. Go see where we disagree with the swift-boaters thing though. But that's another story altogether, and hopefully laid to rest.

[BinaryBimbo]

So I take it you're assuming the youngest kid isn't actually hers then because fortunately... Those rumors can be dispelled because she's just pregnant now?

Very convenient.

I accept her version of events. There was a hospital involved I assume. Don't you think by now if any but Sarah had that child it would be all over the wires by now?

Why is it so hard to accept the woman at her word? I am not aware of her giving any of us a reason to doubt her.

Look - I think this Sarah Palin is a dumb pick; but if people go after her with lies and half truths it will drive a certain amount of women to her because women are very sensitive to that sort of thing. I really believe if everyone just treats her like any other candidate she will sink herself because she really doesn't appear qualified via experience to be a heartbeat form the Presidency.

[GreatAmericanZero]

How bout from Bristol's boyfriend's point of view:

"Holy shit! I could be going to the White house"

Is he able to support his upcoming family or will they be receiving some type of government assistance?

that is a great Point of View

omg, if i was that dude, id be pimping myself out all over the tv. I'd get a vh1 reality show out of this gimmick. I'll be on "Celebra-cadabra part 2" and do magic tricks with David Faustino. It would be so sweet

[Sinestro]

that is a great Point of View

omg, if i was that dude, id be pimping myself out all over the tv. I'd get a vh1 reality show out of this gimmick. I'll be on "Celebra-cadabra part 2" and do magic tricks with David Faustino. It would be so sweet


i could picture him and his buddies around the igloo giving high fives and doing some ice fishing.

[JerseySean]

Here is a question for you: If it wasn't a big deal, why wasn't it announced before today?

Because noone asked about it before today. That simple. Why would you proavtively announce a personal issue with a 17 year old girl

[BinaryBimbo]

We can go round and round on this. As a veteran, I thought the swift-boaters were disgusting. Discussions on whether medals were earned or not are conversations to be kept in the VFW. As far as Kerry's public records go, his DD214 has records of medals-and to the civilian public at large, a discussion like that is largely misunderstood, and calls into question the very method on how decorations are awarded.

Did I see soldiers get ribbons they didn't deserve? Yes. Is it your business? Nope, that's between him and the rest of the guys in the unit.

And what it did was even worse. It took away the conservatives ability to debate Kerry's PUBLIC policy towards the military as a lawmaker. We were constantly back-peddaling trying to stay as faaaar away from that bunch of crap as possible.

I agree it was a disgusting series of events that derailed the real conversation about that elections choices.

I guess my point is that I can see where these Vets were coming from, and imo Kerry is the fault of the fallout because he never was able to convincingly tell us what really happened there. I voted for him; but I have to admit it was one of the hardest votes I ever made because I didn't much trust him by then either.

No matter though Kerry was running for office - this ladys girls aren't running for anything and we really should give them the respect normally afforded Presidential children and their personal lives.

[GreatAmericanZero]

omg, they are showing her hometown on cbs. what a hayseed shithole

[epo]

Because noone asked about it before today. That simple. Why would you proavtively announce a personal issue with a 17 year old girl

Fair enough.

Now do you think it's fair game that her pregnancy be known to the public?

[K.C.]

omg, they are showing her hometown on cbs. what a hayseed shithole

Shhhhhhh!

Trust me...you don't want them going to Claymont, DE to profile Biden....

[JerseySean]

But you do see where I'm coming from right?

Yea but i just dont think its a real issue here. I think that is a reach. I hear what you are saying but we dont know what kind of FAMILY conversations happened. we can judge her for wanting to teach evolution and creationism, being pro-whatever, etc but not what conversations may have happened in the privacy of a family discussion. That doesnt reflect on McCain or his camp.

[epo]

Shhhhhhh!

Trust me...you don't want them going to Claymont, DE to profile Biden....

The difference is that Delaware isn't "foreign and weird". We already know that it's a dump.

[JerseySean]

Fair enough.

Now do you think it's fair game that her pregnancy be known to the public?

Being KNOWN? Yea thats fair. But I just dont think it should have been announced unless asked.

[GreatAmericanZero]

Shhhhhhh!

Trust me...you don't want them going to Claymont, DE to profile Biden....

yeah but atleast hes in the continental united states. he can drive to different places, there isn't a "Canada" inbetween Delaware and the rest of the country

[mikeyboy]

For me, the fact that Palin's daughter is pregnant isn't a reflection on her ability to lead or how good of a mother she is. Parents do the best they can to teach their children right from wrong, but the simple truth is that:

Kids are going to fuck.

It's not related to this particular scenario as far as we know, but kids are also going to drink and they are going to do drugs. This happens to the children of the best parents. A parent can only do their best to lead their children down the right path and hope that they don't fuck up their lives by getting knocked up, drunk driving, ODing, etc..

I don't support Palin as the V.P. candidate. I truly believe it was a pick motivated totally by gender and not qualifications beyond having a vagina. I also see McCain as much less of a viable candidate for making the pick, and because it doesn't look like she was properly vetted. The pregnancy is a non-issue concerning Palin in my eyes. The only issue is whether or not McCain knew about the pregnancy when he made his pick, because it's an important enough issue for some. If he didn't know, it reflects badly on him.

[celery]

Babydaddy revealed:

http://assets.nydailynews.com/img/2008/09/02/amd_levi-johnston.jpg

[JerseySean]

yeah but atleast hes in the continental united states. he can drive to different places, there isn't a "Canada" inbetween Delaware and the rest of the country

The Obama camp is going to blow their budget just to fly the researchers up there. And yea, they dont want anyone in Claymont

[K.C.]

The difference is that Delaware isn't "foreign and weird". We already know that it's a dump.

Don't make me and Diablo pull some Newark thuggery on you (pronounce new-ARK...not ne-wyrk like that Jersey trash).

[JerseySean]

Babydaddy revealed:

http://assets.nydailynews.com/img/2008/09/02/amd_levi-johnston.jpg

Hockeymom:Hockey daughters baby daddy in law

[Friday]

Babydaddy revealed:

http://assets.nydailynews.com/img/2008/09/02/amd_levi-johnston.jpg

hockey players are yummy.

just sayin.

[GreatAmericanZero]

Babydaddy revealed:

http://assets.nydailynews.com/img/2008/09/02/amd_levi-johnston.jpg

are you kidding? Seabass from "Dumb & Dumber" is the baby daddy?

I knew it was going to be some jock

[scottinnj]

- this ladys girls aren't running for anything and we really should give them the respect normally afforded Presidential children and their personal lives.

While it is unfortunate this girl's personal life is now a front page story, the subject of the analysis should be the McCain campaign's judgement in picking Palin to shore up the base, and not much else.

Foreign policy-I know she is a governor, but she hasn't shown much. Even W had more foreign policy experience dealing with Mexico and the local enforcement of NAFTA.

Other then that, I don't see much she adds to the ticket.

[BinaryBimbo]

Yea but i just dont think its a real issue here. I think that is a reach. I hear what you are saying but we dont know what kind of FAMILY conversations happened. we can judge her for wanting to teach evolution and creationism, being pro-whatever, etc but not what conversations may have happened in the privacy of a family discussion. That doesnt reflect on McCain or his camp.

Sean, are you saying she advocates both evolution and creationism academically?

That's at least a bit more honest than most Bible thumpers.

The whole idea of forcing teachers to tell the creationism tale is corrupt. First of all it is a Judeo/Christian concept; so the fact that it is limited to some religions, but not all of them makes it unworthy of inclusion in studies for kids.

I think this lady has a thin resume, and if treated decent by the press and public she will fade away from the spotlight quickly. She doesn't have the remarkable life story of a Biden, Obama, or McCain; there is nothing there there unless we make it out to be something that isn't.

[Tenbatsuzen]

I don't support Palin as the V.P. candidate. I truly believe it was a pick motivated totally by gender and not qualifications beyond having a vagina. I also see McCain as much less of a viable candidate for making the pick, and because it doesn't look like she was properly vetted. The pregnancy is a non-issue concerning Palin in my eyes. The only issue is whether or not McCain knew about the pregnancy when he made his pick, because it's an important enough issue for some. If he didn't know, it reflects badly on him.

Eloquent, and to the point. You sure you're not a trial lawyer, Mikey? If not, your talents are being wasted.

[K.C.]

Kids are going to fuck.


The problem is that the Republicans only seem to admit this when it's convenient for them or bailing them out of a jam.

90% of the time, the 'kids are going to fuck' mentality is considered 'the moral decay of society.'

But an instance like this, they spin it as a heart-warming tale of a family pulling together.

It can't be both ways.

[Tenbatsuzen]

Babydaddy revealed:

http://assets.nydailynews.com/img/2008/09/02/amd_levi-johnston.jpg

Jaromir Jagr?

[TheMojoPin]

While it is unfortunate this girl's personal life is now a front page story, the subject of the analysis should be the McCain campaign's judgement in picking Palin to shore up the base, and not much else.

Foreign policy-I know she is a governor, but she hasn't shown much. Even W had more foreign policy experience dealing with Mexico and the local enforcement of NAFTA.

Other then that, I don't see much she adds to the ticket.

"Everyone is forgetting that Alaska is right next to Russia up there!"

[GreatAmericanZero]

it does suck that this chick is the national joke of the country because of her mother...but you know what? Fuck her

theirs teenagers homeless on the street, starving to death in America. Teenagers of fathers that rape them and drug addict hooker mothers. im not going to feel sorry for her

[JerseySean]

Sean, are you saying she advocates both evolution and creationism academically?

That's at least a bit more honest than most Bible thumpers.

The whole idea of forcing teachers to tell the creationism tale is corrupt. First of all it is a Judeo/Christian concept; so the fact that it is limited to some religions, but not all of them makes it unworthy of inclusion in studies for kids.

I think this lady has a thin resume, and if treated decent by the press and public she will fade away from the spotlight quickly. She doesn't have the remarkable life story of a Biden, Obama, or McCain; there is nothing there there unless we make it out to be something that isn't.

First of all, yes she does advocate for evolution to be taught as such:

Heres what scientists think happened. Here is what Christanity teaches. Are they both right? That is what she stands for. I remember as one of my first memories in Catholic School, the preist teaching us that what was said in the Old Testamnet wasnt to be taken literally and the stories in it were more symbolic. therefore, I believe God created the Earth and Man. Did he do it in LITERALLY six days with a day off. I doubt it. I THINK, those are Palins beleifs as well.

[K.C.]

"Everyone is forgetting that Alaska is right next to Russia up there!"

The thing that makes me laugh most when that was said, is that the whole 'neighbor theory' of foreign policy has sure worked wonders with Bush and Mexico.

:lol:

[BinaryBimbo]

hockey players are yummy.

just sayin.

You have to admit they all look like the typical all American family - even the boyfriend fits the mold. These folks seem highly likeable to me.

I agree with Mikey though, (even if he did yell at me for being a jerk), - she doesn't look qualified, and McCain doesn't look brighter for picking her.

[TheMojoPin]

First of all, yes she does advocate for evolution to be taught as such:

Heres what scientists think happened. Here is what Christanity teaches. Are they both right? That is what she stands for. I remember as one of my first memories in Catholic School, the preist teaching us that what was said in the Old Testamnet wasnt to be taken literally and the stories in it were more symbolic. therefore, I believe God created the Earth and Man. Did he do it in LITERALLY six days with a day off. I doubt it. I THINK, those are Palins beleifs as well.

But like BB points out, creationists come at it like their beliefs constitute "everyone else." They don't. If you cram that into science classes, you basically have to let in any religious scenario that runs contrary to science.

[mikeyboy]

are you kidding? Seabass from "Dumb & Dumber" is the baby daddy?

I knew it was going to be some jock

I don't think it was intentional, because I never took you for a hockey fan, GAZ, but kind of funny considering that Sea Bass was played by Cam Neely.

[thejives]

The problem is that the Republicans only seem to admit this when it's convenient for them or bailing them out of a jam.

90% of the time, the 'kids are going to fuck' mentality is considered 'the moral decay of society.'

But an instance like this, they spin it as a heart-warming tale of a family pulling together.

It can't be both ways.

QFT!!

From NARAL: (http://www.naral.org/elections/obama-or-mccain-fp.html)

* John McCain has voted to terminate the Title X family-planning program, which provides millions of women with health-care services ranging from birth control to breast cancer screenings. 1
* John McCain has voted against funding teen-pregnancy prevention programs. 2
* John McCain voted against legislation that would have prevented unintended pregnancy by investing in insurance coverage for prescription birth control, promoting family-planning services, implementing teen-pregnancy prevention programs, and developing programs to increase awareness about emergency contraception.

Bristol seems to have a supportive, well-off family. She and her studly hockey husband will be fine. But there are a lot of pregnant teens who don't have support and who don't have money. They could have used these measures.

McCain says "that's life" (http://www.startribune.com/politics/national/conventions/27742784.html?elr=KArksLckD8EQDUoaEyqyP4O:DW3ckUiD 3aPc:_Yyc:aUUF) about Bristol... but when life happens to poor kids he doesn't care. That's the issue.

[Ritalin]

hockey players are yummy.

just sayin.

You're a mullet-humper.

[epo]

While it is unfortunate this girl's personal life is now a front page story, the subject of the analysis should be the McCain campaign's judgement in picking Palin to shore up the base, and not much else.


Exactly.

Actually I feel for the girl and her fiancee for being put in this spot.

[KnoxHarrington]

But like BB points out, creationists come at it like their beliefs constitute "everyone else." They don't. If you cram that into science classes, you basically have to let in any religious scenario that runs contrary to science.

And creationism fucks up science education. "Intelligent design" wants to say that the story that God created the earth works as well as evolution, but that's not how science works. Science uses data and observable phenomena. If we start saying "But here's another story that isn't proven by any facts at all, just what people think might be true on faith", it becomes that much harder to teach kids real science.

[Ritalin]

Exactly.

Actually I feel for the girl and her fiancee for being put in this spot.

Her fiancee.

good one.

[JerseySean]

But like BB points out, creationists come at it like their beliefs constitute "everyone else." They don't. If you cram that into science classes, you basically have to let in any religious scenario that runs contrary to science.

ea but Palin has a more moderate view. To teach certain religious viewpoints, without forcing them on people, IE-Christians beleive X, Muslims believe Y, etc is legal in school. I dont see that a problem at all and I dont think anyone could

[ChrisTheCop]

More VP family news:

"Biden's Son Off to Iraq"

By Shailagh Murray
"As Sen. Barack Obama closes in on his running mate pick, one prospect with clear momentum is Sen. Joseph Biden Jr.

Even difficult news for the Delaware Democrat personally has added a compelling twist to his case. On Oct. 3, Biden's son, Joseph Robinette "Beau" Biden III, will be deployed to Iraq.

"I don't want him going," Biden told an Iowa state fair crowd a year ago, when, as a presidential candidate himself, he learned that his son's unit would be deployed at some point in 2008. "But I don't want my grandsons or granddaughters going back in 15 years. So how we leave makes a big difference."

Beau is the Delaware attorney general and a captain in the Army National Guard. He is the oldest of Biden's two sons with his first wife, Neilia. She was killed in a car accident, along with the couple's 1-year-old daughter Naomi, shortly after Biden was elected to his first Senate term. "

How come we hear more about Palin's son going to Iraq than Biden's?

It was mentioned at leats once in my ears. But I can understand why youd miss it, what with babygate and all.



That's the last I'll say on Bristol Palin.

If only everyone would end their next post with that, and mean it.

So wait... McCain's VP has a daughter that's been knocked up twice before the age of 18 which at least shows that she can't control her kids. Now that doesn't make you question her ability to be 2nd in command of the most powerful nation on Earth? :blink:

Thats exactly what I'm afraid of. Just like the Obama is a Muslim thing, people read or hear something, and it gets stuck in their heads, no matter what new facts come out.

This is not a serious discussion. It can't be.

I've been counseled not to take anything GAZ says as seriousness; so I'll pass that advice on to you.

in all seriousness, if your daughter gets pregnant at 17, i believe you are a bad mother. I truly do. And being a mother is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay easier than being president. If you can't be a good mother, I totally believe you can't be a good president

See? Thats funny! Because we werent allowed to say the same thing about Hillary being unable to run the country after being a bad wife/mother.

So I take it you're assuming the youngest kid isn't actually hers then because fortunately... Those rumors can be dispelled because she's just pregnant now?

Very convenient.

I picture Mel Gibson typing this to JUlia Roberts while clutching his 200th copy of Catcher in The Rye.

Point taken.

I did not mean my statements as a personal attack on Brett.
I apologize to you Brett.
I am passionate about the subject is all, and simply wish to have a more honest debate.

More people should be like you, and others in this thread I might add.
Passionate about the future of our country, and interested in the candidates in the upcoming election, and frustrated over the bullshit stories we have to wade through to get there.

Only 45 minutes til a brand new day....please God, can we move on?

[KnoxHarrington]

ea but Palin has a more moderate view. To teach certain religious viewpoints, without forcing them on people, IE-Christians beleive X, Muslims believe Y, etc is legal in school. I dont see that a problem at all and I dont think anyone could

Then have a comparative religion class. Keep that the fuck out of a science class.

[GreatAmericanZero]

See? Thats funny! Because we werent allowed to say the same thing about Hillary being unable to run the country after being a bad wife/mother.



go ahead. I hated Hilary and I wouldn't have voted for her

[Ritalin]

Then have a comparative religion class. Keep that the fuck out of a science class.

Here here

[JerseySean]

QFT!!

From NARAL: (http://www.naral.org/elections/obama-or-mccain-fp.html)



Bristol seems to have a supportive, well-off family. She and her studly hockey husband will be fine. But there are a lot of pregnant teens who don't have support and who don't have money. They could have used these measures.

McCain says "that's life" (http://www.startribune.com/politics/national/conventions/27742784.html?elr=KArksLckD8EQDUoaEyqyP4O:DW3ckUiD 3aPc:_Yyc:aUUF) about Bristol... but when life happens to poor kids he doesn't care. That's the issue.

What was that stuff attached to blah blah blah. Why should the govt pay for that anyway? Moreover, ANYONE can go to planned parenthood and get free condoms and birth control, so stop it.

[brettmojo]

I can't believe she flew all the way back to Alaska from Texas after going into labor a month early. That's the crack in the facade for me.

[ChrisTheCop]

go ahead. I hated Hilary and I wouldn't have voted for her

Too late NOW.:down:

[TheMojoPin]

ea but Palin has a more moderate view. To teach certain religious viewpoints, without forcing them on people, IE-Christians beleive X, Muslims believe Y, etc is legal in school. I dont see that a problem at all and I dont think anyone could

See Knox's post. It doesn't work. Religious tales have no place in a science class. It would basically be like teaching an astronomy class and then giving all the kids a comic book about Galactus and the Silver Surfer and saying that those might be legit, too. Imagine how much time in science classes would be wasted branching off into the different religions and their folk tales. They're science classes! Teach kids science, dammit.

[thejives]

But like BB points out, creationists come at it like their beliefs constitute "everyone else." They don't. If you cram that into science classes, you basically have to let in any religious scenario that runs contrary to science.

And creationism fucks up science education. "Intelligent design" wants to say that the story that God created the earth works as well as evolution, but that's not how science works.

We had a great thread on this.
(http://www.ronfez.net/forums/showthread.php?t=65816) Scottinnj, underdog, yerdaddy, and I fought like alleycats until the wee hours for days. Finally Mike the Teacher came in and set the record straight. (http://www.ronfez.net/forums/showthread.php?t=65816&highlight=Mike+Teacher&page=4)

So... if you want to start this debate again, read that thread first.

[scottinnj]

ea but Palin has a more moderate view. To teach certain religious viewpoints, without forcing them on people, IE-Christians beleive X, Muslims believe Y, etc is legal in school. I dont see that a problem at all and I dont think anyone could

Don't go there dude. I'm still putting bactine on where I got my ASS-KICKED in that thread.

[JerseySean]

Then have a comparative religion class. Keep that the fuck out of a science class.

In many cases students feel offended. Hey I agree with you on this just playing Devils Advocate