The Juneau Juno (The Sarah Palin Thread)

[Serpico1103]

Also, opinion/viewpoints are not able to be added up to equal something. If one million people have the opinion that the earth is flat, those viewpoints will never be equal to the opinion of one who says it's round.

Next you'll tell the rubes that dinosaurs existed. How will they base their votes if their sacred book is wrong?

[SonOfSmeagol]

The only real absolute measure of the value of someone’s political viewpoint is the vote, so in the end everyone’s equal. If you guys want to think your political viewpoint is more valuable than someone else’s (and/or the process by which they arrived at it), then so be it. I find it annoying, and elitist, and just don’t know what else to say about it at this point.

[TeeBone]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/02/09/article-0-08370599000005DC-263_468x371.jpg

Did you also hear her mispronounce the word, 'Corpsmen'? Oh wait, that was the other dumb fuck...

[booster11373]

As an atheist I pray she runs for President in 2012

[Serpico1103]

The only real absolute measure of the value of someone’s political viewpoint is the vote, so in the end everyone’s equal. If you guys want to think your political viewpoint is more valuable than someone else’s (and/or the process by which they arrived at it), then so be it. I find it annoying, and elitist, and just don’t know what else to say about it at this point.

*basking in the warm glow of elitism* This ivory tower affords such a splendid view.

[CurseoftheBambi]

http://www.gkent.us/images/Redneck_Teleprompter_M.jpg

[EliSnow]

The only real absolute measure of the value of someone’s political viewpoint is the vote, so in the end everyone’s equal.

This doesn't make any sense at all. Just because people's votes are equal in terms of the voting process doesn't mean that their viewpionts are equally valid or credible. And that's what we are talking about here. People are expressing certain views that don't hold up under scrutiny. That is a completely different question than the "value" of their vote in the election process.

Are you seriously saying that someone who does not know the history about a subject and has never read up on a subject is as valid in terms of logic and sense as someone who has read up on a subject? Under your thought process, the viewpoint that Saddam was the architect of 9/11 is as valid as someone with the opposite (and correct) viewpoint, simply because they each have one vote.

Because that's not true about any other thing in life so why should it be true about politics?

If you guys want to think your political viewpoint is more valuable than someone else’s (and/or the process by which they arrived at it), then so be it. I find it annoying, and elitist, and just don’t know what else to say about it at this point.


And I think your idea that everyone regardless of intelligence, education, experience and knowledge to have an equally valid political viewpoint to be outside the realm of reality. Seriously, it doesn't make any sense. You have offered no specific reasons why your idea makes sense, and end up confusing topics (worth of a vote v. the validity of viewpoints). Instead, you sit back and call people names.

[EliSnow]

N/m

[epo]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/02/09/article-0-08370599000005DC-263_468x371.jpg

Did you also hear her mispronounce the word, 'Corpsmen'? Oh wait, that was the other dumb fuck...

Come on, that lame defense was already used...

[KnoxHarrington]

Someone might want to put Palin's newest poll numbers on her hand for her:

In the latest ABC News/Washington Post poll, the amount of people with a favorable view of Palin has dropped to its lowest point ever recorded by the pollster. More than 70% of respondents said she's not qualified to be president.

Palin's numbers don't improve much when just Republicans are asked to give their opinion of her, the poll found.

The Post reports just 45% of conservatives consider Palin qualified to move into the Oval Office. Last November, 66% of conservatives said she was qualified.

Only 37 percent of Republicans have a "strongly favorable" view of Palin. Among all Americans, her overall favorable/unfavorable split is 37/55, the lowest it's been since ABC and the Post added her to national polls in Sept. 2008, when John McCain made Palin his running mate on the GOP ticket.

"Although Palin is a tea party favorite," the Post reports, "her potential as a presidential hopeful takes a severe hit in the survey."


http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/02/palins-poll-numbers-hit-historic-lows-even-among-gopers.php?ref=fpa

Continuing to "pal around" with these teabagger nutbars is going to lead the Republicans into absolute disaster for years to come.

[brettmojo]

Someone might want to put Palin's newest poll numbers on her hand for her:



http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/02/palins-poll-numbers-hit-historic-lows-even-among-gopers.php?ref=fpa

Continuing to "pal around" with these teabagger nutbars is going to lead the Republicans into absolute disaster for years to come.
That's just LAME stream media propaganda.

[Furtherman]

Continuing to "pal around" with these teabagger nutbars is going to lead the Republicans into absolute disaster for years to come.

I actually feel bad for the GOP, especially those who stick up for her strictly because of which party she's in... you know, those who vote for the party, not the person.

[Serpico1103]

The only real absolute measure of the value of someone’s political viewpoint is the vote, so in the end everyone’s equal. If you guys want to think your political viewpoint is more valuable than someone else’s (and/or the process by which they arrived at it), then so be it. I find it annoying, and elitist, and just don’t know what else to say about it at this point.

My points:
1) People have opinions
2) Some people put more effort than others in formulating their opinion
3) Some people are manipulated easier than others
4) Many of the people easily manipulated do not realize they are being manipulated
5) Political campaigns and the media know there are easily manipulated people out there
6)Political campaigns and the media focus on the easily manipulated group

Which do you disagree with and why?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Please go away Palin if God forbid you are the nominee in 2012 Obama wins by a landslide of Reaganesque proportions

[KnoxHarrington]

My guess is that Palin has no actual intention of running for President. It's part of the gimmick, and she has to say that she does to stay in the spotlight, but I think she's got what she wants now: a national platform, a shitload of cash, and the adoration of rubes.

[Serpico1103]

My guess is that Palin has no actual intention of running for President. It's part of the gimmick, and she has to say that she does to stay in the spotlight, but I think she's got what she wants now: a national platform, a shitload of cash, and the adoration of rubes.

We have a winner.
She quit the governorship to give speeches. I don't see that as an easy sell for the presidency.

[brettmojo]

My guess is that Palin has no actual intention of running for President. It's part of the gimmick, and she has to say that she does to stay in the spotlight, but I think she's got what she wants now: a national platform, a shitload of cash, and the adoration of rubes.
She's won Political Idol.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

We have a winner.
She quit the governorship to give speeches. I don't see that as an easy sell for the presidency.

She also has some huge legal bills to pay for

[jimmyolsenblues]

Lisa Ann completely ruined anything Sarah Palin will ever do....

http://twitter.com/thereallisaann

[Serpico1103]

She also has some huge legal bills to pay for

That whole "legal bills" line seems shady. The state doesn't pay for defense against ethics complaints?
She disclosed financial papers that said she owed "several hundred thousand." Any less specific? The law firm wouldn't give a specific number either.
The law firm was paid by the state to defend one ethics probe, why not others?

These aren't personal suits, they are all based on her action as governor. I can't believe that the state doesn't pay to defend them.

From the NY Times:
"The preliminary report, written by Thomas M. Daniel, an investigator for the state personnel board, came in response to an ethics complaint filed shortly after the fund was established a few months ago. The complaint questioned whether it was proper for the governor to have a defense fund in the first place.

The report, written July 14 and first reported Tuesday by The Associated Press, said that the governor had an unfair fund-raising advantage over ordinary citizens because she was a public official, that her fund was trading on her status as a public official to solicit donations and that contributions to the fund could amount to improper gifts under Alaska law. It recommended that Ms. Palin refuse to accept payment from the fund.

The report also suggested Ms. Palin seek reimbursement from the state for the cost of defending herself against ethics complaints that have been dismissed."

[SonOfSmeagol]

And I think your idea that everyone regardless of intelligence, education, experience and knowledge to have an equally valid political viewpoint to be outside the realm of reality. Seriously, it doesn't make any sense. You have offered no specific reasons why your idea makes sense, and end up confusing topics (worth of a vote v. the validity of viewpoints). Instead, you sit back and call people names.

You are the one that introduced absurd examples to counter a point that no one was making about validity. The point was that no one person’s viewpoint is more valuable than that of another, and that Serpico’s generalization that all the “rubes” are so stupid that their opinions are somehow “worth less” than his indicates that he thinks he is superior. It’s quite simple, really. Your statements were somewhat less extreme, I’ll admit.

[Ritalin]

Please go away Palin if God forbid you are the nominee in 2012 Obama wins by a landslide of Reaganesque proportions

Who would you want to run for the Republics?

Tancredo?

[SonOfSmeagol]

My points:
1) People have opinions
2) Some people put more effort than others in formulating their opinion
3) Some people are manipulated easier than others
4) Many of the people easily manipulated do not realize they are being manipulated
5) Political campaigns and the media know there are easily manipulated people out there
6)Political campaigns and the media focus on the easily manipulated group

Which do you disagree with and why?

I see you've softened your tone. I disagree with none of this. I commented on your air of superiority and that I find it annoying.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Who would you want to run for the Republics?

Tancredo?

Ron Paul. He opposes open borders and he's not associated with the evangelicals

Tancredo would be a good choice as ICE commissioner

[Serpico1103]

I see you've softened your tone. I disagree with none of this. I commented on your air of superiority and that I find it annoying.

Because you were ignoring what I was saying and focusing on how I was saying it.
Form over substance.
So there are rubes?

[SonOfSmeagol]

Because you were ignoring what I was saying and focusing on how I was saying it.
Form over substance.
So there are rubes?

I read what you write and frankly have a hard time sometimes telling when you are serious. I think perhaps there are elements of your truth in even your most pointed barbs. I find no need to refer to any fellow citizen as a "rube".

[Serpico1103]

I read what you write and frankly have a hard time sometimes telling when you are serious. I think perhaps there are elements of your truth in even your most pointed barbs. I find no need to refer to any fellow citizen as a "rube".

I am usually serious, but with some sarcasm thrown in.
Are there people easily controlled by marketing?

[SonOfSmeagol]

I am usually serious, but with some sarcasm thrown in.
Are there people easily controlled by marketing?

Have you ever been "easily controlled by marketing"? If you say no, how can you possibly know for sure, since you may have been "controlled"?

[Serpico1103]

Have you ever been "easily controlled by marketing"? If you say no, how can you possibly know for sure, since you may have been "controlled"?
Still trying to spin your way out.
I am sure I have succumb to marketing.

The point is that some people are more susceptible than others. Not, whether or not I am immune.

Can non-citizens be rubes?

[EliSnow]

You are the one that introduced absurd examples to counter a point that no one was making about validity. The point was that no one person’s viewpoint is more valuable than that of another, and that Serpico’s generalization that all the “rubes” are so stupid that their opinions are somehow “worth less” than his indicates that he thinks he is superior. It’s quite simple, really. Your statements were somewhat less extreme, I’ll admit.

Wrong. You were the one who used the word "value" with regard to viewpoints. But the only "value" to viewpoints is with regard to their validity/logic. If a viewpoint defies logic, it's worthless.

And the "elitist" people you were challenging were pointing out how the viewpoints of those mocking Obama for using a teleprompter, and somehow praising Palin who has used teleprompters, did not make sense and had no validity.

That was the discussion. You've tried to steer/paint it another way by brining up worth according to votes, and how someone would multiply viewpoints to equal another viewpoint.

As for Serpico, apparently, you were unable to discern the shitload of sarcasm he was using to make his points.

http://www.ronfez.net/randomizer/random.php?uid=14

[SonOfSmeagol]

Still trying to spin your way out.
I am sure I have succumb to marketing.

The point is that some people are more susceptible than others. Not, whether or not I am immune.

Can non-citizens be rubes?

Spin my way out of what? I've already acknowledged that you and others are entitled to feel superior. So, one last time, have at it.

[Serpico1103]

Spin my way out of what? I've already acknowledged that you and others are entitled to feel superior. So, one last time, have at it.

Still worming your way out. I didn't say that being less susceptible to marketing tools was a superior attribute.
My attitude towards it is irrelevant. But, it continues to be your focus.
1) Are some people more susceptible?
2) Are they targeted by marketers, campaigns, media?
3) What should we call these people? (Please say "fellow citizens")

[SonOfSmeagol]

Wrong. You were the one who used the word "value" with regard to viewpoints. But the only "value" to viewpoints is with regard to their validity/logic. If a viewpoint defies logic, it's worthless.

And the "elitist" people you were challenging were pointing out how the viewpoints of those mocking Obama for using a teleprompter, and somehow praising Palin who has used teleprompters, did not make sense and had no validity.

That was the discussion. You've tried to steer/paint it another way by brining up worth according to votes, and how someone would multiply viewpoints to equal another viewpoint.


It is the Palin thread and the teleprompter thing is applicable. Although personally I think it’s a stupid discussion, could give a shit, and I was more interested in observing how and why some people so quickly dismiss the “mockers” as “rubes”.

I would think maybe you would have used your intellect to look just a little bit deeper. Perhaps consider that some people might be thinking of the history that, like it or not, Obama has with the thing vs Palin’s non-history. For whatever reason, he seems to have overused it and relied upon it extensively. He appears uncomfortable without it. Perhaps most importantly, it has become a symbol to some as the barrier between him speaking at the people and him communicating with the people. Palin does not have such a history. That’s just off the top of my head, because again I could give a crap, but those are just some of the things the “rubes” were perhaps thinking when they “mocked” him with, as you say, their "nonsensical" and "invalid" viewpoints.

[SonOfSmeagol]

Still worming your way out. I didn't say that being less susceptible to marketing tools was a superior attribute.
My attitude towards it is irrelevant. But, it continues to be your focus.
1) Are some people more susceptible?
2) Are they targeted by marketers, campaigns, media?
3) What should we call these people? (Please say "fellow citizens")

Yes
Yes
fellow citizens

[EliSnow]

It is the Palin thread and the teleprompter thing is applicable. Although personally I think it’s a stupid discussion, could give a shit, and I was more interested in observing how and why some people so quickly dismiss the “mockers” as “rubes”.

I would think maybe you would have used your intellect to look just a little bit deeper. Perhaps consider that some people might be thinking of the history that, like it or not, Obama has with the thing vs Palin’s non-history. For whatever reason, he seems to have overused it and relied upon it extensively. He appears uncomfortable without it. Perhaps most importantly, it has become a symbol to some as the barrier between him speaking at the people and him communicating with the people. Palin does not have such a history. That’s just off the top of my head, because again I could give a crap, but those are just some of the things the “rubes” were perhaps thinking when they “mocked” him with, as you say, their "nonsensical" and "invalid" viewpoints.

That doesn't hold up either.
*
Palin hasn't overused the teleprompter because she doesn't give anywhere near as many speeches as Obama does. *Meanwhile, I don't see Obama using the teleprompter anymore than any President before him.* Just like every other president, he uses it for prepared speeches.*
*
As for his problems without it, a lot of politicians have varying problems without a teleprompter.* Each have their quirks and problems.* Some worse than others. I don’t think Obama has anymore issues than Palin, Bush or others.* He’s’ not as good as Bill Clinton, but he’s not the worst either.
*
As for the difference how people relate to Palin and Obama, that’s because of their style of speaking.* Palin is more of a folksy, populist speaker.* Obama is more of the intellectual, law professor speaker.* Palin’s way of speaking is more likely to connect to people on an emotional level than Obama, especially with the people who agree with Palin already.* It’s not due to any “overuse” of a teleprompter.*
*
And all of that should be obvious to people who think about the subject and not just jump on something that the pundits are saying.

[Serpico1103]

Yes
Yes
fellow citizens

Good. You fit neatly in the box.

I think Obama uses a car to get from one place the next. Should he walk?
The teleprompter is a tool used when giving long prepared speeches. Especially when accuracy about figures, dates, etc are concerned.
It is a non-issue.
Palin needing notes for her speech is a non-issue.
Palin writing notes on her hand may say something about her professionalism and ability to operate at a higher level. Not to mention how childish it looks.
Someone mentioned "maybe there wasn't any paper." I would call that unprepared. Not exactly a great trait.

[EliSnow]

Good. You fit neatly in the box.

I think Obama uses a car to get from one place the next. Should he walk?
The teleprompter is a tool used when giving long prepared speeches. Especially when accuracy about figures, dates, etc are concerned.
It is a non-issue.
Palin needing notes for her speech is a non-issue.
Palin writing notes on her hand may say something about her professionalism and ability to operate at a higher level. Not to mention how childish it looks.
Someone mentioned "maybe there wasn't any paper." I would call that unprepared. Not exactly a great trait.

Exactly. And Obama doesn't use the teleprompter more than other presidents before him. The suggestion that he overuses it is one of those attacks that have no basis in reality but people hop on because they want to believe it.

[SonOfSmeagol]

That doesn't hold up either.
.
.
.
And all of that should be obvious to people who think about the subject and not just jump on something that the pundits are saying.

Good points. A different perspective, but, good points. If I’m not mistaken you’ve just dismissed me as a “rube”. Hope that works for ya. I still think my thoughts are valuable, or valid, or whatever.

[Serpico1103]

Good points. A different perspective, but, good points. If I’m not mistaken you’ve just dismissed me as a “rube”. Hope that works for ya. I still think my thoughts are valuable, or valid, or whatever.

The worse kind of rube. One who holds onto their opinion in the face of overwhelming contrary evidence.

[EliSnow]

Good points. A different perspective, but, good points. If I’m not mistaken you’ve just dismissed me as a “rube”. Hope that works for ya. I still think my thoughts are valuable, or valid, or whatever.

My last paragraph was directed at people who think that Obama overuses the teleprompter compared to other politicians. Your post appears to be a hypothetical and not actually committing to the this viewpoint.

If you hold the viewpoint that he overuses the teleprompter, that viewpoint is not valid based on the facts. I limit my judgment to your thoughts on this point. I have no idea if any of your other thoughts are valid or not, because I don't know what they are.

[SonOfSmeagol]

Exactly. And Obama doesn't use the teleprompter more than other presidents before him. The suggestion that he overuses it is one of those attacks that have no basis in reality but people hop on because they want to believe it.

http://www.bostonherald.com/blogs/news/lone_republican/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/obama-tele-prompter-6.jpg


Check out the sixth-grade classroom.

[SonOfSmeagol]

If you hold the viewpoint that he overuses the teleprompter, that viewpoint is not valid based on the facts. I limit my judgment to your thoughts on this point. I have no idea if any of your other thoughts are valid or not, because I don't know what they are.

Sorry, but - bullshit vis a vis my thoughts. You can never give an inch, can ya pal?

[Serpico1103]

http://www.bostonherald.com/blogs/news/lone_republican/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/obama-tele-prompter-6.jpg


Check out the sixth-grade classroom.

RUBE!!!!!
He didn't use the teleprompters when talking to the 6th graders.
He used them for the press conference after with reporters.
Uh oh, facts contradicting your spoon fed opinion.

[SonOfSmeagol]

The worse kind of rube. One who holds onto their opinion in the face of overwhelming contrary evidence.

So I've heard. I have so much to learn from my betters. Know any?

[EliSnow]

Sorry, but - bullshit vis a vis my thoughts. You can never give an inch, can ya pal?

What do you want me to give you an inch on?

I said what my belief is. I didn't call You a rube because I don't believe that this one viewpoint makes you one.

[SonOfSmeagol]

What do you want me to give you an inch on?

I said what my belief is. I didn't call You a rube because I don't believe that this one viewpoint makes you one.

It was an expression - I really don't expect anything. I said what my thoughts are too.

I like that last sentence - what DOES make me a rube then - all my other thoughts?

[SonOfSmeagol]

RUBE!!!!!
He didn't use the teleprompters when talking to the 6th graders.
He used them for the press conference after with reporters.
Uh oh, facts contradicting your spoon fed opinion.

Did I say "use the teleprompters when talking to the 6th graders"? In fact, no. You apparently fell for my marketing genius and were vastly misguided and thought what you wanted to think.

[Serpico1103]

Did I say "use the teleprompters when talking to the 6th graders"? In fact, no. You apparently fell for my marketing genius and were vastly misguided and thought what you wanted to think.

Worm, spin, spin, worm.

You may call me a "fellow citizen", while you maintain your rubeness.

[EliSnow]

Did I say "use the teleprompters when talking to the 6th graders"? In fact, no. You apparently fell for my marketing genius and were vastly misguided and thought what you wanted to think.

You posted the picture in response to my point about Obama's teleprompter use. If you weren't making the above point, then your post doesn't make sense.

[EliSnow]

It was an expression - I really don't expect anything. I said what my thoughts are too.

I like that last sentence - what DOES make me a rube then - all my other thoughts?



When did I say you were a rube? You may be one, but as I said I need more facts to make that call.

[SonOfSmeagol]

Worm, spin, spin, worm.

You may call me a "fellow citizen", while you maintain your rubeness.

You posted the picture in response to my point about Obama's teleprompter use. If you weren't making the above point, then your post doesn't make sense.

Dudes, please. If you don’t see any humor in that pic then you are way out there.

[EliSnow]

Dudes, please. If you don’t see any humor in that pic then you are way out there.

Or its not funny.

[Serpico1103]

Dudes, please. If you don’t see any humor in that pic then you are way out there.

I must miss it.
Unless you think the humor is that he is using a teleprompter to talk to 6th graders.

This wasn't about YOU being a rube. It was about the existence of rubes in general.

[angrymissy]

http://www.bostonherald.com/blogs/news/lone_republican/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/obama-tele-prompter-6.jpg


Check out the sixth-grade classroom.

Yeah, except he's not talking to the sixth graders there, he's giving a televised speech... I see you're trying to say you weren't trying to imply he was talking to 6th graders, but it's pretty obvious that you were, otherwise your posting of the picture makes no sense.

[SonOfSmeagol]

Or its not funny.

I must miss it.
Unless you think the humor is that he is using a teleprompter to talk to 6th graders.

Yeah, except he's not talking to the sixth graders there, he's giving a televised speech... I see you're trying to say you weren't trying to imply he was talking to 6th graders, but it's pretty obvious that you were, otherwise your posting of the picture makes no sense.

Yeah yeah yeah. Sure. You people are way too uptight over this. WAY uptight.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

It must be a bitch for Palin to support McCain as she would rather be campaigning for Hayworth, but then again McCain plucked her from obscurity

[weekapaugjz]

http://tenderslounge.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/sarah-palin-mask-right.jpg

[Serpico1103]

Saw O'Reilly on the cable guide, thought I should visit my old friend.
He was interviewing Palin. Asked her about the "Family Guy" episode.
She was hurt and doesn't think "special people" should be insulted.
Then he asked her about Rush's use of the word "retard." Surprise! That was fine.
Her stance:
Obama's comment about special olympics- Bad.
Rahm's "fucking retard" remark- Bad.
"Family Guy"- Bad.
Rush's "satirical" use of "fucking retard"- Fine.

I need help understanding the apparent inconsistency.

[KnoxHarrington]

Saw O'Reilly on the cable guide, thought I should visit my old friend.
He was interviewing Palin. Asked her about the "Family Guy" episode.
She was hurt and doesn't think "special people" should be insulted.
Then he asked her about Rush's use of the word "retard." Surprise! That was fine.
Her stance:
Obama's comment about special olympics- Bad.
Rahm's "fucking retard" remark- Bad.
"Family Guy"- Bad.
Rush's "satirical" use of "fucking retard"- Fine.

I need help understanding the apparent inconsistency.

Sarah Palin is a fucking retard.

[underdog]

Sarah Palin is a fucking retard.

I have that written on my hand.

[keithy_19]

Sarah Palin is a fucking retard.

KnoxHarrington-bad

[KnoxHarrington]

KnoxHarrington-bad

Nah, here's the thing: that poor little waterhead kid can't help it.

Sarah Palin should know better than to say the stupid shit she spews regularly.

Ergo, she is a fucking retard.

[keithy_19]

Nah, here's the thing: that poor little waterhead kid can't help it.

Sarah Palin should know better than to say the stupid shit she spews regularly.

Ergo, she is a fucking retard.

KnoxHarrington-double bad

[A.J.]

Family Guy has upset Sarah Palin (http://voices.washingtonpost.com/comic-riffs/2010/02/sarah_palin_slams_tvfamily_guy.html?hpid=news-col-blog). Good.

[underdog]

Family Guy has upset Sarah Palin (http://voices.washingtonpost.com/comic-riffs/2010/02/sarah_palin_slams_tvfamily_guy.html?hpid=news-col-blog). Good.

I like that the retarded person in Family Guy was actually a very strong person and that has somehow pissed a bunch of people off.

[angrymissy]

I like that the retarded person in Family Guy was actually a very strong person and that has somehow pissed a bunch of people off.

Hah, yeah I wonder if they did it on purpose.

I saw this episode and thought they were going to go wayyyy bad and have the chick be super retarded... then they make her a strong, confident retarded person and "OH THE HORROR"!

And how on Earth were they "mocking" her infant son when the character was a teenaged girl? The only mention of Sarah Palin was when she said her mother was the former Governor of Alaska.

[underdog]

Hah, yeah I wonder if they did it on purpose.

I saw this episode and thought they were going to go wayyyy bad and have the chick be super retarded... then they make her a strong, confident retarded person and "OH THE HORROR"!

And how on Earth were they "mocking" her infant son when the character was a teenaged girl? The only mention of Sarah Palin was when she said her mother was the former Governor of Alaska.

I think what she's trying to tell us is that putting retarded people on television is always bad. They should be shamed and kept under cover.

[keithy_19]

And how on Earth were they "mocking" her infant son when the character was a teenaged girl? The only mention of Sarah Palin was when she said her mother was the former Governor of Alaska.

It kind of seemed like they were mocking the fact that Chris would be into a girl with down syndrome.

I wasn't offended, per se, but I just thought the episode was awful. (Simpsons on the other hand was great)

As far as Palin goes, if you're going to be outspoken about things be consistent. If Rahm and Family Guy are assholes, so is Rush.

[KnoxHarrington]

Palin PWNED by the actress who voiced that character on Family Guy:

My name is Andrea Fay Friedman. I was born with Down syndrome. I played the role of Ellen on the "Extra Large Medium" episode of Family Guy that was broadcast on Valentine's day. Although they gave me red hair on the show, I am really a blonde. I also wore a red wig for my role in " Smudge" but I was a blonde in "Life Goes On". I guess former Governor Palin does not have a sense of humor. I thought the line "I am the daughter of the former governor of Alaska" was very funny. I think the word is "sarcasm".


In my family we think laughing is good. My parents raised me to have a sense of humor and to live a normal life. My mother did not carry me around under her arm like a loaf of French bread the way former Governor Palin carries her son Trig around looking for sympathy and votes.

OH SNAP

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/02/18/family-guy-actress-respon_n_468331.html

[A.J.]

That was Corky's chick from Life Goes On?

[Dan 'Hampton]

Are downs syndrome people allowed to drink, like at a bar?

[A.J.]

Are downs syndrome people allowed to drink, like at a bar?

I wonder if the drunker they are the more normal they sound.

[Serpico1103]

Palin PWNED by the actress who voiced that character on Family Guy
OH SNAP
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/02/18/family-guy-actress-respon_n_468331.html
That was perfect. Also I think calculated since they didn't need to use someone with downs syndrome becuase it is a cartoon. But the woman is right. If we can make fun of short people, fat people, geeks, jocks, etc why should we "protect" one group? By "protecting" them you are emphasising that they are fundamentally different.

[Syd]

That was perfect. Also I think calculated since they didn't need to use someone with downs syndrome becuase it is a cartoon. But the woman is right. If we can make fun of short people, fat people, geeks, jocks, etc why should we "protect" one group? By "protecting" them you are emphasising that they are fundamentally different.

it's because political correctness is wrong, except when someone points out someone you care about

Hypocrisy 'n' conservatism: two peas in a pod

[Serpico1103]

I am amazed that fox is keeping palin as the face of the right wing. If gwb didn't do enough damage to their image, palin will burn the fucker to the ground.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Excellent article by George Will on why Palin will never be President.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/02/17/AR2010021703507.html

[underdog]

Excellent picture by someone on why Palin will never be President.

http://www.gkent.us/images/Redneck_Teleprompter_M.jpg

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Excellent picture by someone on why Palin will never be President.

http://www.gkent.us/images/Redneck_Teleprompter_M.jpg

The podium says Gaylord, I wonder if she noticed that

[Dan 'Hampton]

I'm so sick of those posters. My rightwing brother in laws post them all over facebook. I've never seen one that made me laugh.

[dino_electropolis]

Excellent article by George Will on why Palin will never be President.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/02/17/AR2010021703507.html

Let me guess: the vagina.

[keithy_19]

Hypocrisy 'n' conservatism: two peas in a pod

It's both parties. If you strongly believe in something you're going to eventually be called a hypocrit for something you've done.

[Dan 'Hampton]

It's both parties. If you strongly believe in something you're going to eventually be called a hypocrit for something you've done.


It's much easier to walk lockstep with one of the parties and agree with everything they want you too. Less thinking.

[angrymissy]

So Palin's Grandson is on AK public health insurance?

She's putting him at risk of DEATH PANELS!

[epo]

So Palin's Grandson is on AK public health insurance?

She's putting him at risk of DEATH PANELS!

I just read that...such fucking hypocrisy on Palin's part. Of course then, I'm not surprised.

Story here. (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/shannyn-moore/granny-palin-overcomes-he_b_470297.html)

I can't believe McCain let his people talk him into picking her dumb ass.

[keithy_19]

Just out of curiosity, does anyone on this board actually like Palin?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Just out of curiosity, does anyone on this board actually like Palin?

For someone who is in her mid 40's I think shes very attractive, but thats it.

[underdog]

Just out of curiosity, does anyone on this board actually like Palin?

badmonkey defends her all the time.

[badmonkey]

badmonkey defends her all the time.

I don't really give a shit about her. I find it more amusing that you guys actually HATE her and I laugh at the lengths you will go to attack her irrationally for next to nothing. The only point in defending her is watching you guys go crazy. How many pages of this thread are dedicated to criticizing facebook posts she's made that you wouldn't even have read if you hadn't gone out of your way to become fans or friends with her so you get it immediately on your facebook wall? It's sad, but hilarious all at the same time that you're becoming internet stalkers.

[underdog]

I don't really give a shit about her. I find it more amusing that you guys actually HATE her and I laugh at the lengths you will go to attack her irrationally for next to nothing. The only point in defending her is watching you guys go crazy. How many pages of this thread are dedicated to criticizing facebook posts she's made that you wouldn't even have read if you hadn't gone out of your way to become fans or friends with her so you get it immediately on your facebook wall? It's sad, but hilarious all at the same time that you're becoming internet stalkers.

Exactly.

[keithy_19]

For someone who is in her mid 40's I think shes very attractive, but thats it.

I agree.

[badmonkey]

Exactly.

I don't defend her"all the time" either. I probably don't have 25 posts in this entire 84 page thread.

[underdog]

I don't defend her"all the time" either. I probably don't have 25 posts in this entire 84 page thread.

I actually had "badmonkey sometimes defends her" but erased it and went with what I wrote.

[CurseoftheBambi]

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/bristol-palin-play-secret-life-american-teenager/story?id=9917876


Bristol Palin, arguably the most famous teen mother in America, will make her acting debut playing herself on ABC Family's "The Secret Life of the American Teenager," the network announced today.

"I am thrilled to be on this show and to be part of a program that educates teens and young adults about the consequences of teen pregnancy," Palin said in a statement.

Bristol Palin, daughter of former vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin, will play herself as a friend to the show's protagonist, Amy, at a music program for teen mothers. "Secret Life" focuses heavily on how Amy's family and friends deal with her own unexpected pregnancy.

"We're thrilled to have [Bristol] join us, and I think she will bring additional attention to the issues facing teen parents that we've been exploring for a couple seasons now," "Secret Life" executive producer Brenda Hampton said in a statement.

Bristol Palin, who became pregnant in high school, was thrust on the national stage with young baby in arms when her mother Sarah Palin was named John McCain's running mate in the 2008 presidential election.

Bristol was briefly engaged to the baby's father, Levi Johnston, whom she has recently has taken to court to get full custody of their son, Tripp, and to ask for increased child support.


(ya insert your own jokes here)





But but wont this land in her getting criticized i mean by the evil tv show critics!!!!! Liberal socialist tv critics!!!!

(wondering if this will and her a future spot on dancing with the has-beens i mean stars)

[SatCam]

She can probably act better than anyone else on that awful show

[WRESTLINGFAN]

They will probably ask Greta to take one for the team and give Palin her own show at 10 and move Greta to 11pm

[EliSnow]

I just read at AICN that Palin and Mark Burnett are teaming to pitch a reality show possibly about Palin's family in Alaska.

http://www.ronfez.net/randomizer/random.php?uid=14

[CurseoftheBambi]

is it gonna be called "The Wasilla Hillbilies"?

or Truth, Dare, Or Sarah Palin?

or How I stole your money while you brought my ghost written book of lies?

[hanso]

Sarah Palin writes on hand equates it to god.The story has it as jesus. One problem though jesus was said to be illiterate.

[brettmojo]

I just read at AICN that Palin and Mark Burnett are teaming to pitch a reality show possibly about Palin's family in Alaska.


Hopefully Big Brother like... With a live feed from Bristol's bed room.

[Tenbatsuzen]

Hopefully Big Brother like... With a live feed from Bristol's bed room.

Episode 1: Bristol Goes Bra Shopping

[Jujubees2]

Palin admits family sought medical care in Canada (http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/World/2010/03/08/13158751-ap.html)

Guess government run healthcare isn't as bad as she says...

An interesting end to the story:

A report last spring by Deloitte Center for Health Solutions said 750,000 Americans travelled abroad for medical care in 2007, and forecast that number would rise to six million by 2010. That trend far outpaces the number of Canadians coming to the U.S. for medical treatment.

[Dan 'Hampton]

That dumb shrill bitch was just on NBC shilling for McCain. I feel bad for him, he seems like a guy who at least tries to do what's right. And he's got that condecending retard up there stumping fir him because she pulls in votes. I would be posting this on facebook but unfortunatley I have family members on there who like this hayseed whore.

[Recyclerz]

I watched Sarah Palin give her speech to the Tea Party being held somewhere out in the Nevada desert on C-span a little while ago. I'm doing my best to be open-minded but I swear to God there were only a few sentences that she got out that made any sense at all. Virtually every thing she said was an empty platitude about how great America is and how awful Obama and the "lame stream media" media are. The only bit that was a recognizable policy was that we should develop more of our local energy sources so as not to be dependent on unreliable foreign sources, which makes sense even if it is a little simplistic. After her speech I kept watching the rest of the speakers (including Andrew (?) Breitbart ) and performers and the thing that kept popping in my head for the whole spectacle was that line from Fredo in the Godfather Part 2 - "I'm smart! Not like everybody says... like dumb... I'm smart and I want respect!"

[Furtherman]

Really FOXN? They're not even lobbing softballs anymore. They're playing t-ball, becoming caricatures of themselves.

From TV Squad:

Having Sarah Palin on Fox News is a bit of a no-brainer, particularly since they appeal to the same demographic. Rupert Murdoch takes full advantage of this fact when she appears as a contributor and will do so again this coming Thursday when the former Governor hosts 'Real American Stories.'

The show will be your basic celebrity interview show in which successful Americans reveal the history and secrets of their success. Guests will include Toby Keith, LL Cool J and former GE CEO Jack Welch. Hopefully they'll be on the same show and they'll be fighting each other in a ring.

Honestly, Sarah Palin is so busy nowadays. She's got her book. She's got her new reality show on TLC. Pretty soon she'll be getting her own sitcom on NBC Thursday nights. Hmmmm.

Whatever you do, don't read too much into the fact that the show begins on April Fool's Day. No, stop reading into that. Stop that right now. That's not appreciated.

[high fly]

Palin admits family sought medical care in Canada (http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/World/2010/03/08/13158751-ap.html)

Guess government run healthcare isn't as bad as she says...


Yup.

Tripp Palin firmly latched to government teat (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/shannyn-moore/granny-palin-overcomes-he_b_470297.html)

[mikeyboy]

Really FOXN? They're not even lobbing softballs anymore. They're playing t-ball, becoming caricatures of themselves.

From TV Squad:

LL Cool J responds (http://twitter.com/llcoolj/status/11368691756)

[epo]

Fuck reality shows...those are boring. I'm interested in the mess that Palin left behind:

Palin Left Alaska With Debts Equal to 70 Percent of Its GDP (http://washingtonindependent.com/80942/palin-left-alaska-with-debts-equal-to-70-percent-of-its-gdp)

Less than a year after then-Gov. Sarah Palin (R-Alaska) quit the government to pursue other projects, Alaska leads the way in its debt-to-GDP ratio when its unfunded pension obligations are taken into account, followed by Rhode Island, New Mexico, Ohio and Mississippi. And although Alaska’s ratio is far lower than Greece’s, it does give the state a debt-to-GDP ratio similar to that of Jordan and Palin’s favorite health care resource, Canada, and a higher ratio than Ghana, Cote d’Ivoire, India, the Philippines or Uruguay.

I bet 5 minutes on You Tube would pull up some delicious "We'll balance the budget and stop that debt. You betcha!" quotes. She's really the gift that keeps giving.

[keithy_19]

Fuck reality shows...those are boring. I'm interested in the mess that Palin left behind:

Palin Left Alaska With Debts Equal to 70 Percent of Its GDP (http://washingtonindependent.com/80942/palin-left-alaska-with-debts-equal-to-70-percent-of-its-gdp)



I bet 5 minutes on You Tube would pull up some delicious "We'll balance the budget and stop that debt. You betcha!" quotes. She's really the gift that keeps giving.

You're telling me that Palin and Obama were/are putting their state/country in debt? Who woulda thunk it.

[Crispy_Mobile]

How quickly you forget. It was george bush & the conservative Congress that put this country in debt.

[keithy_19]

How quickly you forget. It was george bush & the conservative Congress that put this country in debt.

Damn. You're right. Thank goodness President Obama has stopped spending trillions while the countries national debt skyrockets even more.

Both of them are awful.

[hanso]

'Real American Stories.' with fake interviews. How can anyone watch this retched channel and think for a moment anything on it is the truth?

[keithy_19]

'Real American Stories.' with fake interviews. How can anyone watch this retched channel and think for a moment anything on it is the truth?

Probably the same way people watch Olberman and Maddow and think any of it is true.

[hanso]

Let's have a truth off.
We can start with this topic.
I have never seen msnbc caught trying to pass off old video clips as something new.

[keithy_19]

Let's have a truth off.
We can start with this topic.
I have never seen msnbc caught trying to pass off old video clips as something new.

Sarah Palin isn't doing a news show. I don't like her myself. But she isn't news. I think it is very dumb for the station to do this. Did they really think that the 'guests' wouldn't find out?

But this, to me, doesn't have anything to do with the news.

[Crispy_Mobile]

Damn. You're right. Thank goodness President Obama has stopped spending trillions while the countries national debt skyrockets even more. Both of them are awful.

So he should have let Bush's TARP money flush down the toilet & the banks & auto companies fail? Either way President Obama hasn't done anything close to awful, yet and nothing comparable to Palins shitty handling of the Alaskan economy.

[keithy_19]

So he should have let Bush's TARP money flush down the toilet & the banks & auto companies fail? Either way President Obama hasn't done anything close to awful, yet and nothing comparable to Palins shitty handling of the Alaskan economy.

Yes. I would have prefered the banks and auto companies fail.

[Crispy123]

Yes. I would have prefered the banks and auto companies fail.

Yeah where was the Tea Party for that one or when the constitution was actually trashed in 2001 by the Patriot act?

It would have been easier to let them fail if Bush hadn't handed out $700 Billion right before Pres Obama took office.

[epo]

Yes. I would have prefered the banks and auto companies fail.

I'm sorry Keithy, you completely lost me. When you think about the ramifications of flushing those industries down...we'd wouldn't be exiting a recession, we'd be in the throws of a depression.

[EliSnow]

I'm sorry Keithy, you completely lost me. When you think about the ramifications of flushing those industries down...we'd wouldn't be exiting a recession, we'd be in the throws of a depression.

And this is supported by a lot of economists. Bitch all you want about the debt, but that's going to be easier to deal with than the economic collapse that would have occurred if the bailouts didn't occur.

[Jujubees2]

Damn. You're right. Thank goodness President Obama has stopped spending trillions while the countries national debt skyrockets even more.

Both of them are awful.

Hey, gotta spend money to make money...

[EliSnow]

I just read that Toby Keith said that the interview of him in this Sarah Palin special is an old one too.

It wouldn't surprise me if every one of those interviews are old ones that they repackaged together for this thing.

[angrymissy]

Would it have really been that hard to just find some people for her to interview instead of stringing together old footage?

She is a dolt, but for a pretaped show they could have made her look fine, and had Chuck Norris on or something.

[Furtherman]

Probably the same way people watch Olberman and Maddow and think any of it is true.

keithy, you're the most passive aggressive FOX News lover on this board. You don't exactly "like it", you don't exactly "respect this person", you watch "this or that occasionally", but hey, that's just "me".

You attempts to centralize yourself politically are too funny.


Would it have really been that hard to just find some people for her to interview instead of stringing together old footage?

She is a dolt, but for a pretaped show they could have made her look fine, and had Chuck Norris on or something.

Or Victoria Jackson.

That would have been perfect.

[keithy_19]

Yeah where was the Tea Party for that one or when the constitution was actually trashed in 2001 by the Patriot act?

It would have been easier to let them fail if Bush hadn't handed out $700 Billion right before Pres Obama took office.

Completely agree with you. Why people weren't up in arms over the Patriot act is beyond me.

And Bush giving all that money for those companies was wrong.

[underdog]

Discovery Channel Insider: Sarah Palin's Show Is "a New All Time Low for Discovery" (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/cenk-uygur/discovery-insider-sarah-p_b_537178.html)

Duh.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

How quickly you forget. It was george bush & the conservative Congress that put this country in debt.

Bush a conservative? The person who expanded the already bloated fed govt the most since LBJ

As far as congress, they got tossed because of the spending. Bush vetoed almost nothing on discretionary spending.

[booster11373]

Bush a conservative? The person who expanded the already bloated fed govt the most since LBJ

As far as congress, they got tossed because of the spending. Bush vetoed almost nothing on discretionary spending.

Bush constantly identified himself as a conservative so I don't know why you feel like he was not. You claim to be a libertarian you should embrace that term instead of trying to claim conservative as your own

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Bush constantly identified himself as a conservative so I don't know why you feel like he was not. You claim to be a libertarian you should embrace that term instead of trying to claim conservative as your own

A conservative actually wants to conserve the constitution. Bush didnt as he expanded the federal government, wanted open borders and looted the treasury with out of control spending

Just because someone is pro life and an evangelical doesnt make them conservative

Bush was no Goldwater

[Barnaby Jones]

And your truck is ugly!

http://i.imgur.com/RnJkr.jpg

[Serpico1103]

And your truck is ugly!

http://i.imgur.com/RnJkr.jpg

Is he handicapped? Physically?

[Dan 'Hampton]

No mentally and he's from virginia. Double strike.

[Crispy123]

A conservative actually wants to conserve the constitution. Bush didnt as he expanded the federal government, wanted open borders and looted the treasury with out of control spending

Just because someone is pro life and an evangelical doesnt make them conservative

Bush was no Goldwater

No, a conservative is someone with the philosophy of, "do as I say not as I do." For instance, someone who reaps the benefits of an economy built on immigration and immigrant labour yet complains non stop about immigrants. :wink:

[underdog]

No, a conservative is someone with the philosophy of, "do as I say not as I do." For instance, someone who reaps the benefits of an economy built on immigration and immigrant labour yet complains non stop about immigrants. :wink:

Or someone who screams about how bad homosexuality is but then gets caught blowing guys for meth or with a wide stance in a stall.

[PapaBear]

No mentally and he's from virginia. Double strike.
Yeah. Because everyone knows there aren't any racists in Massachusetts.

[underdog]

Yeah. Because everyone knows there aren't any racists in Massachusetts.

We hate blacks only.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

No, a conservative is someone with the philosophy of, "do as I say not as I do." For instance, someone who reaps the benefits of an economy built on immigration and immigrant labour yet complains non stop about immigrants. :wink:

That would be a progressive. Touting how great public schools are but they send their kids to private school. They would never send their precious children to those zoos

They say that public transportation should be the norm but they never hop on a train or bus, you know its only for the common people,

How many minorities or housing projects are in lilywhite towns like Scarsdale and Bronxville?

About 25 years ago there was a federal judge Leonard Sand who ruled there had to be public housing in Yonkers, NY because he didnt want the blacks ruining his precious town of Pound Ridge

[Serpico1103]

That would be a progressive. Touting how great public schools are but they send their kids to private school. They would never send their precious children to those zoos

They say that public transportation should be the norm but they never hop on a train or bus, you know its only for the common people,

How many minorities or housing projects are in lilywhite towns like Scarsdale and Bronxville?

About 25 years ago there was a federal judge Leonard Sand who ruled there had to be public housing in Yonkers, NY because he didnt want the blacks ruining his precious town of Pound Ridge
Yes, dems can be hypocritical. Luckily, all the conservatives preaching morals never get caught in immoral circumstances. All the conservatives who now embrace war as an answer served their country when they had their chance to fight communism. Your party sucks as much as mine.

[foodcourtdruide]

That would be a progressive. Touting how great public schools are but they send their kids to private school. They would never send their precious children to those zoos

They say that public transportation should be the norm but they never hop on a train or bus, you know its only for the common people,

How many minorities or housing projects are in lilywhite towns like Scarsdale and Bronxville?

About 25 years ago there was a federal judge Leonard Sand who ruled there had to be public housing in Yonkers, NY because he didnt want the blacks ruining his precious town of Pound Ridge

I'd love to see the empircal studies you base your claims on. It's kind of funny hearing them, since I went to public school and take public transportation to work everyday.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I'd love to see the empircal studies you base your claims on. It's kind of funny hearing them, since I went to public school and take public transportation to work everyday.

Take a drive thru one of those lilywhite WASPY towns, or better yet take a bus

Seriously I cant believe you actually posted that.

[Serpico1103]

Take a drive thru one of those lilywhite WASPY towns, or better yet take a bus

Seriously I cant believe you actually posted that.
Because there are no housing projects in rich white neighborhoods, the residents are racist democrats? LEAP!

[foodcourtdruide]

Take a drive thru one of those lilywhite WASPY towns, or better yet take a bus

Seriously I cant believe you actually posted that.

So because a small percentage of progressives act a certain way, you can make wild claims about progressives? Gotcha.

[foodcourtdruide]

Because there are no housing projects in rich white neighborhoods, the residents are racist democrats? LEAP!

It's ok to make these leaps about progressives, but if you insuate that his blatantly racist websites about illegal immigrants are racist he throws a fit.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

It's ok to make these leaps about progressives, but if you insuate that his blatantly racist websites about illegal immigrants are racist he throws a fit.

I knew it. Once again, anti illegal immigration is code word racist to you

[WRESTLINGFAN]

So because a small percentage of progressives act a certain way, you can make wild claims about progressives? Gotcha.

A lot of progressives act that way. Its not just the ultra rich ones. How many middle class white progressives are living in Compton, East St Louis, or Hunts Point?

[Dan 'Hampton]

We hate blacks only.

Not true I saw a black guy behind home plate yesterday and he wasn't the catcher (or vendor). I'll report back from RF tonight.

[foodcourtdruide]

I knew it. Once again, anti illegal immigration is code word racist to you

This is simply not true. Your name should be LEAPFAN

[foodcourtdruide]

A lot of progressives act that way. Its not just the ultra rich ones. How many middle class white progressives are living in Compton, East St Louis, or Hunts Point?

This is an extremely bizarre argument, even for you.

[foodcourtdruide]

This is an extremely bizarre argument, even for you.

I really want to make sure I understand this correctly, because it seems insane. I could be understanding you wrong, which is always possible.

You think that people who want to make lives easier for those in poverty, should live in poverty?

[Barnaby Jones]

A lot of progressives act that way. Its not just the ultra rich ones. How many middle class white progressives are living in Compton, East St Louis, or Hunts Point?

Why does someone have to live in the worst areas to be a progressive or liberal? You crazy for this one, WF!

[Serpico1103]

A lot of progressives act that way. Its not just the ultra rich ones. How many middle class white progressives are living in Compton, East St Louis, or Hunts Point?
Has logic and reasoning completely escaped you? Some anti-immigration websites are racist, no? Some progressives are racist. Some conservatives are not perfect americans. Your point is dems want to "help" poor people, but not if it affects themselves. Is that like conservatives who want war and lower taxes, or want to legislate morality while committing adultery, homosexual acts, accepting bribes, promoting gambling, etc?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I really want to make sure I understand this correctly, because it seems insane. I could be understanding you wrong, which is always possible.

You think that people who want to make lives easier for those in poverty, should live in poverty?

Youre missing the point. Progressives want everyone to be equally miserable. Except of course themselves. How about the low income housing units be built right next to their gated communities. Better yet, build luxury condos right next to the run down walkups in the inner cities

[foodcourtdruide]

Has logic and reasoning completely escaped you? Some anti-immigration websites are racist, no?

We've been debating illegal immigration for a year and I don't think I've ever really bought up the word racist until one time he linked a website that had some pretty blatant racist links. I said something like "I can't look at racist websites at work, I don't want to get in trouble" and that he should use sources that weren't quite so bias. For some reason that makes him think that I think everyone who's anti-illegal immigration is racist.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Has logic and reasoning completely escaped you? Some anti-immigration websites are racist, no? Some progressives are racist. Some conservatives are not perfect americans. Your point is dems want to "help" poor people, but not if it affects themselves. Is that like conservatives who want war and lower taxes, or want to legislate morality while committing adultery, homosexual acts, accepting bribes, promoting gambling, etc?

I do not worship , live and die by politicians, if someone is practicing morality and gets caught with a hooker, flush them out. I dont make excuses for them like they are under intense stress etc. Ensign, Sanford, Craig, Swaggart et al are not role models

[foodcourtdruide]

Youre missing the point. Progressives want everyone to be equally miserable. Except of course themselves. How about the low income housing units be built right next to their gated communities. Better yet, build luxury condos right next to the run down walkups in the inner cities

Have you ever been to New York? This is pretty much how things are. Especially Queens, there are low-income housing projects close to wealthy areas. Also, why do you think all people that live in gated communities are progressives?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Have you ever been to New York? This is pretty much how things are. Especially Queens, there are low-income housing projects close to wealthy areas. Also, why do you think all people that live in gated communities are progressives?

Except for 4 years in the Marine Corps and before moving to CT last yr, I lived most of my life in NY. Westchester county to be exact and there are some really ultra rich towns like Bronxville and some parts of Yonkers that are as dangerous as Kabul. Ive been to the outer boroughs and have seen the difference btwn Forest Hills and St Albans

Not at all, people who live in gated communities are all rich no matter what their political leanings are

[Serpico1103]

I do not worship , live and die by politicians, if someone is practicing morality and gets caught with a hooker, flush them out. I dont make excuses for them like they are under intense stress etc. Ensign, Sanford, Craig, Swaggart et al are not role models
So, hypocrisy is not solely a progressive trait?
Do you think there is not one progressive who makes personal sacrifice to help people?
As for your idiotic housing ideas. Why would the state buy expensive land in a wealthy area to develop low income housing. Why would a developer build expensive houses in a bad neighborhood? Humans suck, whatever their stated ideology is.

[Misteriosa]

Have you ever been to New York? This is pretty much how things are. Especially Queens, there are low-income housing projects close to wealthy areas. Also, why do you think all people that live in gated communities are progressives?

yep. its like this in manhattan too. there are housing projects all along the edges of the island which are right next to those expensive waterfront condos. i didnt realize this until i worked at an afterschool program in chelsea. on 8th ave and 23rd there are expensive and exclusive million dollar condos. on 23rd and 9th, one of the most dangerous housing projects i had ever visited existed.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

So, hypocrisy is not solely a progressive trait?
Do you think there is not one progressive who makes personal sacrifice to help people?
As for your idiotic housing ideas. Why would the state buy expensive land in a wealthy area to develop low income housing. Why would a developer build expensive houses in a bad neighborhood? Humans suck, whatever their stated ideology is.

Of course it isn't. As far as housing would you want to live in East New York or Flatbush?

[Serpico1103]

Of course it isn't. As far as housing would you want to live in East New York or Flatbush?
No. I work there daily. Saw someone shot at 3pm in front of a school last month. But, I want it to become a place that is safe for everyone. How is that done? By allowing the state to abandon it? We send troops to fight overseas for corporate interests, for security reasons, to protect international laws regarding human rights. Is it crazy to think we should help citizens caught where their interest are not safe, their security is not guaranteed, their human rights are threatened? What should a child who grows up in.a housing project do? Pull himself out of his despair, like you did?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

No. I work there daily. Saw someone shot at 3pm in front of a school last month. But, I want it to become a place that is safe for everyone. How is that done? By allowing the state to abandon it? We send troops to fight overseas for corporate interests, for security reasons, to protect international laws regarding human rights. Is it crazy to think we should help citizens caught where their interest are not safe, their security is not guaranteed, their human rights are threatened? What should a child who grows up in.a housing project do? Pull himself out of his despair, like you did?

Billions of dollars are spent ever year in the inner cities. There was a so called war on poverty enacted 45 years ago and guess what trillions of dollars later theres still poverty. Whos abandoning these slums? Throwing money at something is not fixing anything. There should be more in those areas besides liquor stores and fast food joints.

It all begins at home, If a parent preaches that being a hustler is the way to go then the kid will believe the same and not value an education and end up selling rocks. These parents who believe that hittin da club on the weekends and not being a guardian/mentor to their children are at fault

[Barnaby Jones]

I'm coming to the realization that WF isn't a brilliant, Jezo-like satirical cartoon.

[Serpico1103]

I know some social programs have failed. I know some have succeeded. Unfortunately, instead of people just demanding that the processes are fixed, they want to abandon them. Are public schools perfect? No. But we need rational discussions on improving them, not paniced talk about their failure. Teachers should have job security, but it seems in nyc they have too much, through contract protection and bad administration. Get good management in there.

[Serpico1103]

War on poverty has failed? What war has succeeded? War on drugs? Vietnam? Iraq? Afghan? Korea? Supporting iran and iraq? WWII, maybe, but not a complete victory, left many things unsettled. WWI? Ok. Civil war? Maybe we should have let the south leave. Many of our troubles stem from trying to appease too many people with diverse interests and backgrounds. One size doesn't fit all.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

War on poverty has failed? What war has succeeded? War on drugs? Vietnam? Iraq? Afghan? Korea? Supporting iran and iraq? WWII, maybe, but not a complete victory, left many things unsettled. WWI? Ok. Civil war? Maybe we should have let the south leave. Many of our troubles stem from trying to appease too many people with diverse interests and backgrounds. One size doesn't fit all.

Civil War, WWI, WWII had surrenders and a somewhat decisive victory, sure there were consequences like the rise up of the USSR, but in the Period after that generally speaking there was a sense of victory for the US. Sure there were other problems like segregation going on but overall it was a victory for the US

Korean War, Vietnam, although had peace treaties/ceasefires was not a decisive victory, especially Vietnam which was more like a quasi defeat even though there was no US surrender.


The war on poverty told single women to have children, they really dont need a father, its the gov't ie taxpayers who will take care of them, they were assured that the check would be sent out every month

Look at the war on drugs for example, tons of money poured into that and its still a lost cause

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I know some social programs have failed. I know some have succeeded. Unfortunately, instead of people just demanding that the processes are fixed, they want to abandon them. Are public schools perfect? No. But we need rational discussions on improving them, not paniced talk about their failure. Teachers should have job security, but it seems in nyc they have too much, through contract protection and bad administration. Get good management in there.

I dont think that Public schools should be eliminated and that kids shuld be homeschooled, I agree that there should be some streamlining. The public schools are bloated with too many administrators, the influence of the teachers unions, horrible teachers who receive tenure etc. Cut the fat and trim where is needed, and for god's sake get rid of the dep't of education. Public education should be a local issue, keep the feds out.

[Serpico1103]

Civil War, WWI, WWII had surrenders and a somewhat decisive victory, sure there were consequences like the rise up of the USSR, but in the Period after that generally speaking there was a sense of victory for the US. Sure there were other problems like segregation going on but overall it was a victory for the US

Korean War, Vietnam, although had peace treaties/ceasefires was not a decisive victory, especially Vietnam which was more like a quasi defeat even though there was no US surrender.


The war on poverty told single women to have children, they really dont need a father, its the gov't ie taxpayers who will take care of them, they were assured that the check would be sent out every month

Look at the war on drugs for example, tons of money poured into that and its still a lost cause
You want to blame lazy mothers? Fine. They are lazy pieces of shit for not raising good kids.
Now. How do we help those kids? Expect them to turn 18 and join our society? Or just build more jails? And privitize the prisons. Next we should have corporate courts. Government is inefficient, let's have Halliburton courts.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

You want to blame lazy mothers? Fine. They are lazy pieces of shit for not raising good kids.
Now. How do we help those kids? Expect them to turn 18 and join our society? Or just build more jails? And privitize the prisons. Next we should have corporate courts. Government is inefficient, let's have Halliburton courts.

Lets have blackwater patrol the streets too.

I am not for dissolving the gov't and having anarchy, however there are thing's that gov't should be invlved in and in many times where they overstep their boundaries

[Serpico1103]

Lets have blackwater patrol the streets too.

I am not for dissolving the gov't and having anarchy, however there are thing's that gov't should be invlved in and in many times where they overstep their boundaries
Helping children is overstepping? Let's start with taking the government out of marriage, that is only about having a stable family for children. Let's get rid of FCC censorship to protect kids (this I think should happen, one time where the market might work). I see many people abusing government money (rich and poor). I want programs made better. Private interests will not fill the void. Let go of that church and charity crap. Matter of fact, can we start taxing churches (mostly money raising scams).

[Barnaby Jones]

The war on poverty told single women to have children, they really dont need a father, its the gov't ie taxpayers who will take care of them, they were assured that the check would be sent out every month

You're a stupid, hateful person who deals only in stereotypes and generalizations to convince yourself that your narrow minded, fear-filled little world makes any sense at all. If you truly think this is how the majority of the poor in this country look at their situation then I feel very, very sorry for you.

[Serpico1103]

You're a stupid, hateful person who deals only in stereotypes and generalizations to convince yourself that your narrow minded, fear-filled little world makes any sense at all. If you truly think this is how the majority of the poor in this country look at their situation then I feel very, very sorry for you.
And he doesn't tell us about his homoerotic gym encounters. Wf: I hate all illegals (really not just mexicans). I hate all liars (not just liberals). I worked for everything I have (except the things given to me by family, friends, government, etc).

[WRESTLINGFAN]

You're a stupid, hateful person who deals only in stereotypes and generalizations to convince yourself that your narrow minded, fear-filled little world makes any sense at all. If you truly think this is how the majority of the poor in this country look at their situation then I feel very, very sorry for you.

Its the facts that when presented to you, as always your side brings out the violins and denegrate the people paying taxes who finance these entitlements. Biting the hand that feeds the recipient. I pay and its not enough so you resort to crying and demonizing the people who are supporting the recipient. Instead of thanking the taxpayer you call them greedy, selfish and self centered. I do not feel sorry for your ignorance!!!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Helping children is overstepping? Let's start with taking the government out of marriage, that is only about having a stable family for children. Let's get rid of FCC censorship to protect kids (this I think should happen, one time where the market might work). I see many people abusing government money (rich and poor). I want programs made better. Private interests will not fill the void. Let go of that church and charity crap. Matter of fact, can we start taxing churches (mostly money raising scams).

Amazing how progressives always bring up Jesus when talking about redistributing wealth. Yes he was for charity but not at the edge of a Roman sword.

Private Charities do a better job than the federal government can ever do.

[Barnaby Jones]

Its the facts that when presented to you, as always your side brings out the violins and denegrate the people paying taxes who finance these entitlements. Biting the hand that feeds the recipient. I pay and its not enough so you resort to crying and demonizing the people who are supporting the recipient. Instead of thanking the taxpayer you call them greedy, selfish and self centered. I do not feel sorry for your ignorance!!!

What facts? All it seems like you have are your rants based on the broadest stereotypes possible. You live in a fantasy world. You should probably go back to the wrestling forum where you belong so you can play make believe for reals and not sound quite so much like an ignorant coward.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

What facts? All it seems like you have are your rants based on the broadest stereotypes possible. You live in a fantasy world. You should probably go back to the wrestling forum where you belong so you can play make believe for reals and not sound quite so much like an ignorant coward.

And you should post in the entertainment threads with your username. What stereotypes are you talking about? Are the inner cities places where the quality of life is good? Taxes don't pay for entitlements?. That money is coming from me, sorry to tell you but theres no such thing as free. Oh yes that fantasy world is that money grows on trees. Please tell me where that is!!!

[Barnaby Jones]

In your world, because poverty still exists in the United States then programs that to attempt to face it must be total failures and the government should not invest any money towards helping the poor. Or it means that "progressives" actually don't care at all about this issue. You've shown again and again that you're all about these inane black and white perspectives towards complicated issues. You're a paranoid spastic with no sense of the world outside of an overinflated sense of egomania seemingly based out of you accomplishing the basic task of paying your taxes. In short, get over yourself. You flip out over the government spending money on anti-poverty measures and then two minutes later endorse the government spending an ungodly amount of money and resources to round up and expel all illegal immigrants and then completely secure the borders indefinitely. Your political opinions are completely scatter shot and routinely cancel each other out in your desperate attempt to remind everyone how much you hate the poor and immigrants at every possible turn. In my time reading this forum you have proven yourself to be a hateful, incomprehensible goon. I will not sit back and watch you yet again deliver another frothing at the mouth diatribe that does nothing to dissuade this observation while also spiraling the conversation off into even more tangents that you can spew childish bile about yet provide absolutely substance to outside of a quick Google search of editorials, blogs and relatively isolated events that ignore any kind of a larger contextual examination cherry picked to endorse your myopic views of the world.

[Furtherman]

:clap:

[Serpico1103]

And you should post in the entertainment threads with your username. What stereotypes are you talking about? Are the inner cities places where the quality of life is good? Taxes don't pay for entitlements?. That money is coming from me, sorry to tell you but theres no such thing as free. Oh yes that fantasy world is that money grows on trees. Please tell me where that is!!!
My taxes paid your salary and for part(if not all) your educattion. Yes, taxes pay for things. I didn't get to vote on your salary, your hiring. We need less military, more social development. Private industry does not work better than the government, that is such a lie. How many businesses fail? Sure, compare government to succussful businesses, that is honest. I want to live in a society with a large middle class. You want to live in a society where you can get rich, fuck everyone else.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

In your world, because poverty still exists in the United States then programs that to attempt to face it must be total failures and the government should not invest any money towards helping the poor. Or it means that "progressives" actually don't care at all about this issue. You've shown again and again that you're all about these inane black and white perspectives towards complicated issues. You're a paranoid spastic with no sense of the world outside of an overinflated sense of egomania seemingly based out of you accomplishing the basic task of paying your taxes. In short, get over yourself. You flip out over the government spending money on anti-poverty measures and then two minutes later endorse the government spending an ungodly amount of money and resources to round up and expel all illegal immigrants and then completely secure the borders indefinitely. Your political opinions are completely scatter shot and routinely cancel each other out in your desperate attempt to remind everyone how much you hate the poor and immigrants at every possible turn. In my time reading this forum you have proven yourself to be a hateful, incomprehensible goon. I will not sit back and watch you yet again deliver another frothing at the mouth diatribe that does nothing to dissuade this observation while also spiraling the conversation off into even more tangents that you can spew childish bile about yet provide absolutely substance to outside of a quick Google search of editorials, blogs and relatively isolated events that ignore any kind of a larger contextual examination cherry picked to endorse your myopic views of the world.


I want the government to spend tax dollars on what they should spend it on and not suck the taxpayer dry. What you call charity, I call theft. Who are the greedy ones? Its not the taxpayer we are told time and time again that we don't contribute enough that somneone is entitled to your wealth and your labor. Does the recipient ever say, Mr Taxpayer you have contributed enough. They always vote for the progressives because they know that they will continue to leech off the system. Its basically a defacto pay raise and no one ever votes down a raise. You live in a world where work, education and motivation is shunned down and that laziness is rewarded. You love to demonize the provider while venerating the recipient you think people are entitled to everything Its not social justice that someone has a 19 inch tube tv and I have the 42 inch LCD. Someone takes the bus and I have a 2010 Acura, in your world thats not fair. After all he is entitled to my car

As far as kicking the illegals out the amt of money needed is far less then the long term costs. Hundreds of billions of dollars are wasted on their entitlements, education, incarceration etc.

But once again im the villain because I am financing their jackpot babies and all the goodies provided to them

[WRESTLINGFAN]

My taxes paid your salary and for part(if not all) your educattion. Yes, taxes pay for things. I didn't get to vote on your salary, your hiring. We need less military, more social development. Private industry does not work better than the government, that is such a lie. How many businesses fail? Sure, compare government to succussful businesses, that is honest. I want to live in a society with a large middle class. You want to live in a society where you can get rich, fuck everyone else.

I dont disagree that. Raising a military is actually one of the 18 enumerated powers that congress is given and paying for that is taxes. When did I ever say that there should be no taxes. However a tax on income is one of the worst things a government can do to its people.

[EliSnow]

I want the government to spend tax dollars on what they should spend it on and not suck the taxpayer dry. What you call charity, I call theft. Who are the greedy ones? Its not the taxpayer we are told time and time again that we don't contribute enough that somneone is entitled to your wealth and your labor. Does the recipient ever say, Mr Taxpayer you have contributed enough. They always vote for the progressives because they know that they will continue to leech off the system. Its basically a defacto pay raise and no one ever votes down a raise. You live in a world where work, education and motivation is shunned down and that laziness is rewarded. You love to demonize the provider while venerating the recipient you think people are entitled to everything Its not social justice that someone has a 19 inch tube tv and I have the 42 inch LCD. Someone takes the bus and I have a 2010 Acura, in your world thats not fair. After all he is entitled to my car

As far as kicking the illegals out the amt of money needed is far less then the long term costs. Hundreds of billions of dollars are wasted on their entitlements, education, incarceration etc.

But once again im the villain because I am financing their jackpot babies and all the goodies provided to them


can you do anything beyond speak in generalizations? Seriously, it"s ridiculous.

[Barnaby Jones]

I want the government to spend tax dollars on what they should spend it on and not suck the taxpayer dry. What you call charity, I call theft. Who are the greedy ones? Its not the taxpayer we are told time and time again that we don't contribute enough that somneone is entitled to your wealth and your labor. Does the recipient ever say, Mr Taxpayer you have contributed enough. They always vote for the progressives because they know that they will continue to leech off the system. Its basically a defacto pay raise and no one ever votes down a raise. You live in a world where work, education and motivation is shunned down and that laziness is rewarded. You love to demonize the provider while venerating the recipient you think people are entitled to everything Its not social justice that someone has a 19 inch tube tv and I have the 42 inch LCD. Someone takes the bus and I have a 2010 Acura, in your world thats not fair. After all he is entitled to my car

As far as kicking the illegals out the amt of money needed is far less then the long term costs. Hundreds of billions of dollars are wasted on their entitlements, education, incarceration etc.

But once again im the villain because I am financing their jackpot babies and all the goodies provided to them

The taxpayer has never "paid enough." That's the nature of paying taxes. You and nobody else are being "sucked dry" by illegals or anti-poverty initiatives. If anything, the presence of both actually has the opposite effect. Your inane approach to this seems to be with the idea that illegal immigrants only cause harm to this country or that anti-poverty initiatives seek to make the poor rich or even middle class as opposed to working to allow them to survive and have the smallest of chances to get a better education or escape the cycle of poverty. You display your ignorance time and time again with your childish tantrums over the poor and over illegal immigrants that seem to perceive their lives as being ones of carefree layabouts who don't have to worry about anything and only mooch off of other people. It's beyond stupid at this point and you're only showing yourself to be inexplicably dense in your inability to see the big picture. Only a lunatic egomaniac would have the balls to think that he is being "sucked dry" by the relatively minuscule taxes that you pay compared to the services and lifestyle you receive and expect. You've fallen hook, line and sinker for the myth that you've "made yourself" and that you've accumulated some kind of wealth that makes you above the majority of people in this country and that anyone else who is not at the socioeconomic level must be doing something wrong and their situation is completely their fault and they deserve no assistance or breaks and the ills of the country can be traced completely to them. You have the mindset of a hate-mongering, paranoid loon and I'm thankful everyday that your mentality rarely rises to the level necessary to truly cause damage. We can all take your solace in the general societal impotence of you and your ilk.

[underdog]

yep. its like this in manhattan too. there are housing projects all along the edges of the island which are right next to those expensive waterfront condos. i didnt realize this until i worked at an afterschool program in chelsea. on 8th ave and 23rd there are expensive and exclusive million dollar condos. on 23rd and 9th, one of the most dangerous housing projects i had ever visited existed.

Yeah, Boston and Cambridge are the same way.

And Cambridge is FILLED with "rich progressives" who choose to live along side the poor people they're trying to help.

In your world, because poverty still exists in the United States then programs that to attempt to face it must be total failures and the government should not invest any money towards helping the poor. Or it means that "progressives" actually don't care at all about this issue. You've shown again and again that you're all about these inane black and white perspectives towards complicated issues. You're a paranoid spastic with no sense of the world outside of an overinflated sense of egomania seemingly based out of you accomplishing the basic task of paying your taxes. In short, get over yourself. You flip out over the government spending money on anti-poverty measures and then two minutes later endorse the government spending an ungodly amount of money and resources to round up and expel all illegal immigrants and then completely secure the borders indefinitely. Your political opinions are completely scatter shot and routinely cancel each other out in your desperate attempt to remind everyone how much you hate the poor and immigrants at every possible turn. In my time reading this forum you have proven yourself to be a hateful, incomprehensible goon. I will not sit back and watch you yet again deliver another frothing at the mouth diatribe that does nothing to dissuade this observation while also spiraling the conversation off into even more tangents that you can spew childish bile about yet provide absolutely substance to outside of a quick Google search of editorials, blogs and relatively isolated events that ignore any kind of a larger contextual examination cherry picked to endorse your myopic views of the world.

I love Barnaby Jones.

[Furtherman]

Don't bother trying to make sense of his ramblings. He's in a corner and he's swinging wildly, trying to protect whatever he feels is his vision.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

The taxpayer has never "paid enough." That's the nature of paying taxes. You and nobody else are being "sucked dry" by illegals or anti-poverty initiatives. If anything, the presence of both actually has the opposite effect. Your inane approach to this seems to be with the idea that illegal immigrants cause harm to this country or that anti-poverty initiatives seek to make the poor rich or even middle class as opposed to working to allow them to survive and have the smallest of chances to get a better education or escape the cycle of poverty. You display your ignorance time and time again with your childish tantrums over the poor and over illegal immigrants that seem to perceive their lives as being ones of carefree layabouts who don't have to worry about anything and only mooch off of other people. It's beyond stupid at this point and you're only showing yourself to be inexplicably dense in your inability to see the big picture. Only a lunatic egomaniac would have the balls to think that he is being "sucked dry" by the relatively minuscule taxes that you pay compared to the services and lifestyle you receive and expect. You've fallen hook, line and sinker for the myth that you've "made yourself" and that you've accumulated some kind of wealth that makes you above the majority of people in this country and that anyone else who is not at the socioeconomic level must be doing something wrong and their situation is completely their fault and they deserve no assistance or breaks and the ills of the country can be traced completely to them. You have the mindset of a hate-mongering, paranoid loon and I'm thankful everyday that your mentality rarely rises to the level necessary to truly cause damage. We can all take your solace in the general societal impotence of you and your ilk.

You sound like the one that is hate mongering. Damn those evil taxpayers. Let me tell you something sir, If you think I am some card carrying member of a country club in Greenwich CT you are dead wrong. Don't you dare make assumptions that I don't care about anyone else than myself. I contribute to the charities of my preference. If thats not good enough for your high and mighty self than you are the one who is bigoted and closed minded. While I am not poor, I have done very good for myself through hard work, dedication, encouragement from my family members , friends colleagues. I never said that I did everything on my own but a lot of it has been through my own efforts. You sir are just another miserable progressive who is in it for yourself!!!

[Serpico1103]

You left out help from the federal and local governments. What percentage of your income is wasted on social programs? Key is wasted.

[Barnaby Jones]

WF is almost scary. He makes up points to rant about and then just goes off on them. "Damn the taxpayers?" LOL! Where did you get that silliness from? And I think you're part of a country club? No, my point was that you're NOT as well off as you selfishly think you are, nor are nearly as "self made" as you arrogantly think you are. You rant about personal ability and expectations but then want to accept no responsibilities of being a citizen of this country except from a deluded fantasy-world perspective that thinks everyone should just fend for themselves and everyone who succeeds did so without any help. Newsflash: that world doesn't exist and it never has and it never will.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

You left out help from the federal and local governments. What percentage of your income is wasted on social programs? Key is wasted.

Again, Yes my property taxes go to fund the salaries for cops firemen etc. It should be spent in the town where I live. Why should my taxes go to pay a teacher in Sheboygan Wisconsin?

[Barnaby Jones]

Because that's one of the reason we pay into the national system. What a loon.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Because that's one of the reason we pay into the national system. What a loon.

don't you even know we are a Federal republic not a National government ?. You clearly do not know the difference. Youre on the wrong continent:wallbash:

[Serpico1103]

Again, Yes my property taxes go to fund the salaries for cops firemen etc. It should be spent in the town where I live. Why should my taxes go to pay a teacher in Sheboygan Wisconsin?
Because you live in a nation. Do you want ct to withdraw from union? Living in a country of educated people benefits you. Not directly enough for you to see, but it does. Sorry. I just think people like you, and also libertarians, down play how much they depend on the government.

[EliSnow]

Again, Yes my property taxes go to fund the salaries for cops firemen etc. It should be spent in the town where I live. Why should my taxes go to pay a teacher in Sheboygan Wisconsin?
Because as a nation we are better off if our populace is well educated. It is extremely short sighted and moronic to only care that your locality is sufficiently educated.

[EliSnow]

don't you even know we are a Federal republic not a National government ?. You clearly do not know the difference. Youre on the wrong continent:wallbash:

The constitution provides for a federal government which has laws applying to the entire nation. Stop acting like it is antithetical to our republic.

[Serpico1103]

Because as a nation we are better off if our populace is well educated. It is extremely short sighted and moronic to only care that your locality is sufficiently educated.
No. Without government interference people and corporations will act morally and responsibly. Stop trying to be mommy and daddy.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Because as a nation we are better off if our populace is well educated. It is extremely short sighted and moronic to only care that your locality is sufficiently educated.

You still don't get it. Local property taxes provide funding for their own towns/cities. You clearly don't understand how the federal government is structured. Let the people in other towns and cities pay their taxes to ther municipality.

Using your logic if a city in California wants to build a new stadium, people in NJ should chip in and pay for that?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

The constitution provides for a federal government which has laws applying to the entire nation. Stop acting like it is antithetical to our republic.

Yes and each state has their laws. The driving age in Montana might be different than that in NY

[EliSnow]

You still don't get it. Local property taxes provide funding for their own towns/cities. You clearly don't understand how the federal government is structured. Let the people in other towns and cities pay their taxes to ther municipality.

Using your logic if a city in California wants to build a new stadium, people in NJ should chip in and pay for that?
How is a stadium related to education? I address education and you change topics.

It is two different topics.

You can't be that dumb.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Because you live in a nation. Do you want ct to withdraw from union? Living in a country of educated people benefits you. Not directly enough for you to see, but it does. Sorry. I just think people like you, and also libertarians, down play how much they depend on the government.

Who's talking secession? Or do you want all states to be dissolved?

[Serpico1103]

You still don't get it. Local property taxes provide funding for their own towns/cities. You clearly don't understand how the federal government is structured. Let the people in other towns and cities pay their taxes to ther municipality.

Using your logic if a city in California wants to build a new stadium, people in NJ should chip in and pay for that?
Don't make me check. CT didn't get money for police related to terrorism from the federal government? What if one state can't raise enough money through property taxes and such? Let it falter, or should other states help to ensure a great NATION?

[EliSnow]

Yes and each state has their laws. The driving age in Montana might be different than that in NY

I am not saying that the federal government's powers aren't limited in some instances. But you act like it isn't a government ruling a nation. It is.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

How is a stadium related to education? I address education and you change topics.

It is two different topics.

You can't be that dumb.

You cant be that stupid. I know its 4/20 but concentrate. Local taxes fund each towns schools firemen cops etc. So should we just do away with property taxes and just pool everything together?

[Barnaby Jones]

How is a stadium related to education? I address education and you change topics.

It is two different topics.

You can't be that dumb.

He's clearly as dense as a bag of bricks buried under concrete. I think it would do us all a world of good to just ignore him from here out since he can't stick to even a single one of his incoherent rants before calling an even more delusional audible. Like right now he's trying to act like property taxes are the end-all-be-all of taxation. What a silly goober.

[Serpico1103]

Who's talking secession? Or do you want all states to be dissolved?
I think the country is too large to be managed properly. What happens when businesses grow, they spin off. If business is your model of efficiency why not follow their lead? Three or four nation states acting as allies might work better.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Don't make me check. CT didn't get money for police related to terrorism from the federal government? What if one state can't raise enough money through property taxes and such? Let it falter, or should other states help to ensure a great NATION?

Do we really need a Dept of Homeland security? Just another useless cabinet position. So youre advocating searching everyones bags, for people taking off their shoes, Its become another expensive bureaucracy

[Serpico1103]

You cant be that stupid. I know its 4/20 but concentrate. Local taxes fund each towns schools firemen cops etc. So should we just do away with property taxes and just pool everything together?
Smarty pants. Your locality gets federal money for everything; roads, schools, police, fire, etc. Again your self-sufficiency is an illusion.

[CurseoftheBambi]

Barnaby...i just wanna say reading what you posted the last 3 pages gave me a hardon! just wow!:clap::thumbup:

[EliSnow]

You cant be that stupid. I know its 4/20 but concentrate. Local taxes fund each towns schools firemen cops etc. So should we just do away with property taxes and just pool everything together?

That's not what I am arguing. So stop misrepresenting my points. You asked why you should help pay for education in other states. You haven't disputed the point but bring up unrelated topics like an idiotic stadium.

The fact is that the constitution via the 16th amendment permits income tax by the federal government. And use of that money to help educate people throughout the nation benefits all. To suggest it doesn't is moronic.

[Serpico1103]

Do we really need a Dept of Homeland security? Just another useless cabinet position. So youre advocating searching everyones bags, for people taking off their shoes, Its become another expensive bureaucracy
No. That was created out of paranoia, drummed up by the right. I think all this terrorism crap is nonesense. Again, people in north dakota voted out of fear of terrorists, while me , living and working in NYC, am not afraid of terrorism. Sadly, people far away from the threat dictate my situation. Back to my dividing idea.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

He's clearly as dense as a bag of bricks buried under concrete. I think it would do us all a world of good to just ignore him from here out since he can't stick to even a single one of his incoherent rants before calling an even more delusional audible. Like right now he's trying to act like property taxes are the end-all-be-all of taxation. What a silly goober.

Youre about as useful as scubagear in the mojave. Clearly you fail to understand how the federal government operates. Why stop at paying for teachers 2500 miles away from you. How about all schoolkids wear uniforms. Come on now, its for the greater good. Everyone is being funded by taxpayers from all states. Even better, have all uniforms be identical

[EliSnow]

Youre about as useful as scubagear in the mojave. Clearly you fail to understand how the federal government operates. Why stop at paying for teachers 2500 miles away from you. How about all schoolkids wear uniforms. Come on now, its for the greater good. Everyone is being funded by taxpayers from all states. Even better, have all uniforms be identical

you are being a troll. You are not even addressing points brought up but are bringing up stupid distractions. Barnaby is right. You should be ignored and your points dealt with like Jezo, WMT and past others.

[Serpico1103]

Youre about as useful as scubagear in the mojave. Clearly you fail to understand how the federal government operates. Why stop at paying for teachers 2500 miles away from you. How about all schoolkids wear uniforms. Come on now, its for the greater good. Everyone is being funded by taxpayers from all states. Even better, have all uniforms be identical
I am confused. Are you ignoring the studies that say uniforms are good. Why would uniforms be bad?
Instruct us all. How does the government work?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

you are being a troll. You are not even addressing points brought up but are bringing up stupid distractions. Barnaby is right. You should be ignored and your points dealt with like Jezo, WMT and past others.

I just addressed the points but its not what you agree with. All of you fail to grasp how a federal government is set up. If you want a national government just say it and be done with it. Youre addressed with a view contrary to yours and you get all defensive and dismissive. If Barnaby is so right then why does he even bother replying to my points. Hes not ignoring me.

I would have more respect for you Barnaby and others if you said you wanted a European style social democracy instead of a Federal government with underlying state and local gov'ts.

[disneyspy]

you are being a troll. You are not even addressing points brought up but are bringing up stupid distractions. Barnaby is right. You should be ignored and your points dealt with like Jezo, WMT and past others.

you take that back,jezo fucking rules and WMT is pretty damn cool and funny,neither trait i would associate with troll boy

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I am confused. Are you ignoring the studies that say uniforms are good. Why would uniforms be bad?
Instruct us all. How does the government work?

Sure uniforms are good for baseball teams, the military especially, you dont want to shoot at one of your fellow Soldiers or Marines.

[Barnaby Jones]

...that the other conservatives on the board that aren't just pretending to be kooks never back up any of WF's ramblings. He'll likely use that as "proof" that he's not a conservative and again ignore that his insane, incompatible, hypocritical take on American politics simply are not feasible and are the words of a sputtering goon desperately looking to attack anything he can deem as "progressive" regardless of how ridiculous he sounds. He's Glenn Beck with a keyboard.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

you take that back,jezo fucking rules and WMT is pretty damn cool and funny,neither trait i would associate with troll boy

Im sorry If I don't have any conspiracy theory gym stories for you. Its you and others who when someone with opposing views makes a comment, post etc its all of a sudden Oh my god someone who disagrees!!!!

[EliSnow]

I just addressed the points but its not what you agree with. All of you fail to grasp how a federal government is set up. If you want a national government just say it and be done with it. Youre addressed with a view contrary to yours and you get all defensive and dismissive. If Barnaby is so right then why does he even bother replying to my points. Hes not ignoring me.

I would have more respect for you Barnaby and others if you said you wanted a European style social democracy instead of a Federal government with underlying state and local gov'ts.

I studied the federal goverment in college and law school and know more about our federal government, its history and its structure than you will ever know.

[Barnaby Jones]

Sure uniforms are good for baseball teams, the military especially, you dont want to shoot at one of your fellow Soldiers or Marines.

Please, let us know why school uniforms are bad in WF world! This is going to be great!

[Misteriosa]

Im sorry If I don't have any conspiracy theory gym stories for you. Its you and others who when someone with opposing views makes a comment, post etc its all of a sudden Oh my god someone who disagrees!!!!

thats what makes jezo's posts so entertaining. take a page, sir

[WRESTLINGFAN]

...that the other conservatives on the board that aren't just pretending to be kooks never back up any of WF's ramblings. He'll likely use that as "proof" that he's not a conservative and again ignore that his insane, incompatible, hypocritical take on American politics simply are not feasible and are the words of a sputtering goon desperately looking to attack anything he can deem as "progressive" regardless of how ridiculous he sounds. He's Glenn Beck with a keyboard.

And youre Keith Olbermann without the fancy suit and glasses. What's your problem with someone who has a different opinion than you have? Do you want everyone to agree about everything

[Barnaby Jones]

Im sorry If I don't have any conspiracy theory gym stories for you. Its you and others who when someone with opposing views makes a comment, post etc its all of a sudden Oh my god someone who disagrees!!!!

Not true. Look at someone like Bob Impact. He certainly has a political take that is counter to most here, yet he's not off in Bonkersville like you.

[disneyspy]

Im sorry If I don't have any conspiracy theory gym stories for you. Its you and others who when someone with opposing views makes a comment, post etc its all of a sudden Oh my god someone who disagrees!!!!

ha! i never posts in these dumb threads cuz dumb people like you use more than two exclamation marks to make it seem like a dire post,its not wee wee wee boring

[Barnaby Jones]

And youre Keith Olbermann without the fancy suit and glasses. What's your problem with someone who has a different opinion than you have? Do you want everyone to agree about everything

You think you're presenting logical, reasonable counterpoints but you're not. People aren't disagreeing with you because they don't share your politics; they disagree with you because you're an inconsistent, sputtering nut-job who thinks he's presenting the only real truth and any deviation from your conclusions must be wrong. I don't think I have all the answers, which is the biggest difference between me and you.

[EliSnow]

Not true. Look at someone like Bob Impact. He certainly has a political take that is counter to most here, yet he's not off in Bonkersville like you.

Nor does he ignore other's points and bring up unrelated points like funding a stadium when the discussion is about education.

[Barnaby Jones]

WF, why do you think it is that absolutely nobody here ever agrees with you or backs up any of your main points and theories? Do you really believe that only you have the right answers to the issues you address? If so, you are delusional.

[Serpico1103]

Sure uniforms are good for baseball teams, the military especially, you dont want to shoot at one of your fellow Soldiers or Marines.
Have you read the court cases saying the government has the right to tax? Do you disagree with their opinion? How about your mentor's dad's case? Why didn't he get away with his scheme?
Tell me where it says the fed can not tax and spend. Keep it simple.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Please, let us know why school uniforms are bad in WF world! This is going to be great!

So you basically want kids to be robots and not think for themselves. Do you want a school where a kid cant wear a shirt that reads Atheist. Why stop there? How about we all drive the same colored car, exactly the same type. Better yet everyone must drive a GM car, a white Chevrolet Cobalt.

Uniforms won't change any type of behavior. Schools will always have bullies uniforms or not, There will still be some sort of discrimination of one group to another and if you think that everyone wearing a uniform will stop all of that, then youre completely lost

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Have you read the court cases saying the government has the right to tax? Do you disagree with their opinion? How about your mentor's dad's case? Why didn't he get away with his scheme?
Tell me where it says the fed can not tax and spend. Keep it simple.

Sure use case law to back up your arguements. Good one

[EliSnow]

Sure use case law to back up your arguements. Good one

even if you ignore case law, article 1 of the constitution and the 16th amendment allow the federal government to collect taxes and provide for the common welfare of the nation. And education is part of the general welfare.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

You think you're presenting logical, reasonable counterpoints but you're not. People aren't disagreeing with you because they don't share your politics; they disagree with you because you're an inconsistent, sputtering nut-job who thinks he's presenting the only real truth and any deviation from your conclusions must be wrong. I don't think I have all the answers, which is the biggest difference between me and you.

I am presenting many good counterpoints its because they are different than yours you want to think that they are not valid because you don't agree with them. Im not the one making childish comments because your views are contrary to mine. I have never said that all of my ideas are perfect, but if they are opposite of yours you start throwing temper tantrums like a child.

[EliSnow]

I am presenting many good counterpoints its because they are different than yours you want to think that they are not valid because you don't agree with them. Im not the one making childish comments because your views are contrary to mine. I have never said that all of my ideas are perfect, but if they are opposite of yours you start throwing temper tantrums like a child.

your counterpoints are good only in your own mind. In reality they are awful.

[Serpico1103]

Sure use case law to back up your arguements. Good one
Oh good. Ok. So how do we decide cases?
Each court interpretting the statutes on their own? Wow you are a maniac.

[Barnaby Jones]

I am presenting many good counterpoints its because they are different than yours you want to think that they are not valid because you don't agree with them. Im not the one making childish comments because your views are contrary to mine. I have never said that all of my ideas are perfect, but if they are opposite of yours you start throwing temper tantrums like a child.

It has nothing to do with your opinions simply being different. That's the essence of any good debate and I welcome that. You present ridiculous, contradictory ideas and go off on bizarre, random tangents. Your ego is yet again in play since it allows you to pretend that you are some kind of martyr being made the villain for your politics. You show time and time again that you are a delusional egomaniac with an over-inflated sense of self-worth.

[Barnaby Jones]

So you basically want kids to be robots and not think for themselves. Do you want a school where a kid cant wear a shirt that reads Atheist. Why stop there? How about we all drive the same colored car, exactly the same type. Better yet everyone must drive a GM car, a white Chevrolet Cobalt.

Uniforms won't change any type of behavior. Schools will always have bullies uniforms or not, There will still be some sort of discrimination of one group to another and if you think that everyone wearing a uniform will stop all of that, then youre completely lost

You are a strange, strange man. Nowhere did I say that everyone should wear uniforms. I also don't think it's a problem if a school does require a uniform. Do you take such a brave stance against dress codes, too? If your business required you to wear a suit would you show up in jeans and a t-shirt just to shove your freedom in their faces? This is what I'm talking about with your ridiculous, over-reactionary and contradictory opinions. It's like you're desperate for things to be contrary about except you have no idea what you're even railing against. It's very telling that you keep saying "progressive" since it shows how desperate you are for a catch-all boogieman that you can rail your plethora of contradictory rants against.

[EliSnow]

You are a strange, strange man. Nowhere did I say that everyone should wear uniforms. I also don't think it's a problem if a school does require a uniform. Do you take such a brave stance against dress codes, too? If your business required you to wear a suit would you show up in jeans and a t-shirt just to shove your freedom in their faces? This is what I'm talking about with your ridiculous, over-reactionary and contradictory opinions. It's like you're desperate for things to be contrary about except you have no idea what you're even railing against. It's very telling that you keep saying "progressive" since it shows how desperate you are for a catch-all boogieman that you can rail your plethora of contradictory rants against.

And no one is arguing that the federal government should dictate uniforms. All reasonable people supporting the department of education is that it help provide funding to help ensure that school systems have assitance in being able to educate their kids.

[Barnaby Jones]

And no one is arguing that the federal government should dictate uniforms. All reasonable people supporting the department of education is that it help provide funding to help ensure that school systems have assitance in being able to educate their kids.

He just creates these ridiculous problems or inflates things into something they're not and then comes at them with a ridiculous all or nothing mindset. How could he possibly think that anyone was demanding uniforms for everyone here or that school uniforms are some kind of dangerous scourge that must be stopped? It's bonkers!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

You are a strange, strange man. Nowhere did I say that everyone should wear uniforms. I also don't think it's a problem if a school does require a uniform. Do you take such a brave stance against dress codes, too? If your business required you to wear a suit would you show up in jeans and a t-shirt just to shove your freedom in their faces? This is what I'm talking about with your ridiculous, over-reactionary and contradictory opinions. It's like you're desperate for things to be contrary about except you have no idea what you're even railing against. It's very telling that you keep saying "progressive" since it shows how desperate you are for a catch-all boogieman that you can rail your plethora of contradictory rants against.

Dress codes are one thing. Uniforms are another. So should every person wear the same colored suit? How about ties? Are bowties outlawed. A lot of the old schoolers still wear them.

Its not about shoving freedom if you will just be honest that you want an overbearing federal government and a European nanny state just say it but you can't even be honest about that.

[Serpico1103]

First school uniforms then blue Cobalt for everyone!

http://education.families.com/blog/research-study-favors-school-uniforms

Trying to work from reason instead of emotion.
There are freedom of speech protections that would protect a kid wearing an atheist shirt, if there wasn't a legal dress code. Oh wait, those are court case interpreting the 1st amendment to apply to non-verbal speech. Constitution doesn't protect silk screening.

[Barnaby Jones]

Dress codes are one thing. Uniforms are another. So should every person wear the same colored suit? How about ties? Are bowties outlawed. A lot of the old schoolers still wear them.

Its not about shoving freedom if you will just be honest that you want an overbearing federal government and a European nanny state just say it but you can't even be honest about that.

You do realize that very few public schools in this country have required uniforms as opposed to dress codes, yes? It's private schools that tend to have the uniforms. Now please, reconcile that reality with your stupid, doltish and predictable rant about "overbearing government" and "nanny states." You're ridiculous and sad to make the paranoid leap from school uniforms to everyone in the United States wearing uniforms or bow ties being banned.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

And no one is arguing that the federal government should dictate uniforms. All reasonable people supporting the department of education is that it help provide funding to help ensure that school systems have assitance in being able to educate their kids.

The dep't of education is a waste of taxpayer dollars. It is not up to the federal gov't to be running the public school system, why can't anyone realize that there are towns and cities and other underlying levels of government.

No child left behind is a colossal failure. Bush should have never signed that into law. Billions of dollars are fed into this bureaucracy and we get very little in return.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

You do realize that very few public schools in this country have required uniforms as opposed to dress codes, yes? It's private schools that tend to have the uniforms. Now please, reconcile that reality with your stupid, doltish and predictable rant about "overbearing government" and "nanny states." You're pathetic.

You really sound stupid. You really don't know that people pay for private school?

We are talking about public schooling and you try to divert the topic

[Barnaby Jones]

WF's seemingly random hatred of uniforms actually fits in nicely with his hatred of the poor since they're on the of the main groups that would benefit from school uniforms and have already benefited greatly thanks to dress codes and the money they save.

[CurseoftheBambi]

uh..dept of education a waste of tax payer dollars...okkkkkkk maybe in your case...but I would like a Department that was in charge of making sure that classes have certain standards, pays for new books, has standarized tests, pays for the best teachers (and should be paying them the best salary so they can do their jobs well without them having to worry about paying their bills), and has classes that aren't over crowded...but i guess you're right and i want a nanny!:blink:

[EliSnow]

It is not up to the federal gov't to be running the public school system, why can't anyone realize that there are towns and cities and other underlying levels of government.

Its not trying to run education. It isn't dictating cirriculum. All it does is offer funding to assist schools.

[Barnaby Jones]

You really sound stupid. You really don't know that people pay for private school?

We are talking about public schooling and you try to divert the topic

Are you really this insane or are you willfully stupid? I brought up private schools because of your lunatic rant that acted like school uniforms are common in public schools and pose some kind of a problem. School uniforms are rarely present in public schools and overwhelmingly found in private schools. The point was to show that your rant was over a phantom problem that doesn't exist. You said you have no problem with dress codes and dress codes are what public schools use when they have clothing regulations. Very, very few public schools actually have uniforms. The point is that YOUR point is completely wrong and, as usual, not based on reality at all.

[Crispy123]

That would be a progressive. Touting how great public schools are but they send their kids to private school. They would never send their precious children to those zoos

They say that public transportation should be the norm but they never hop on a train or bus, you know its only for the common people,

How many minorities or housing projects are in lilywhite towns like Scarsdale and Bronxville?

About 25 years ago there was a federal judge Leonard Sand who ruled there had to be public housing in Yonkers, NY because he didnt want the blacks ruining his precious town of Pound Ridge

Progressive is a term that is only slightly less faggy than conservative. I do not know these people you speak of. I would venture to guess the Hon Mr Sand was a tea partier if his motives were rascist.

I myself am a liberal.

Liberal= liberate America from a conservative white theocracy.

[EliSnow]

You really sound stupid. You really don't know that people pay for private school?

We are talking about public schooling and you try to divert the topic

He is on topic. His point is that uniforms in public schools is not an issue.

[Barnaby Jones]

Its not trying to run education. It isn't dictating cirriculum. All it does is offer funding to assist schools.

Logic, reason and reality mean nothing to him!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Logic, reason and reality mean nothing to him!

Damn those facts again

http://www.hslda.org/docs/nche/000000/00000063.asp

[EliSnow]

Logic, reason and reality mean nothing to him!
He reminds me of pro se plaintiffs who think they are coming up with great arguments for their case, but in reality they are shooting themselves in the foot with such ridiculous positions.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Progressive is a term that is only slightly less faggy than conservative. I do not know these people you speak of. I would venture to guess the Hon Mr Sand was a tea partier if his motives were rascist.

I myself am a liberal.

Liberal= liberate America from a conservative white theocracy.

Judge Sand was definitely not a tea partier

Fellow Marine you definitely are a liberal, you air wingers and your long hair :lol: