The Juneau Juno (The Sarah Palin Thread)

[HBox]

She mentioned in the interview talking to Mikhail Saakashvili, President of Georgia. Thanks to my surveillance capabilities I have video of him on the phone with Palin:

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[epo]

Jesus christ. Palin didn't know what the Bush Doctrine was. Charlie Gibson had to explain it to her after she was obviously confused and then gave an answer not really related to the Bush Doctrine.

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They hand picked Gibson to do the first serious interview, she has almost a week to prepare for this. And she doesn't even know what the most significant foreign policy development following 9/11 is?!

I've watched this 5 times and I've never seen a more unprepared candidate in my life.

[Dude!]

I've watched this 5 times and I've never seen a more unprepared candidate in my life.

the fact that you watched 5 times is what is important
people switch channels when they do not like someone
when they cannot get enough of someone
then they watch them 5 times

speaking in general terms again
so dont get all defensive

[NewYorkDragons80]

I love how she backpedaled out of her statement her son was on a mission from God.

Sorry. This woman is a self-righteous wannabe neophyte and a nut.
Go back and read the quote. It isn't backpedaling, it's just that you read the Huffington Post's take on it and were caught off guard when you heard it in a different context. Happens to the best of us.

[scottinnj]

I've watched this 5 times and I've never seen a more unprepared candidate in my life.

Totally unqualified. I may share some of her conservative beliefs, but I KNOW what the Bush Doctrine is! I can point out these countries on a map, I have a general estimate of how many troops are in harms way and how fucking long they've been there and which naval fleets are where taking care of the hotspots I KNOW ABOUT!

This chick doesn't know the time of day when it comes to foreign policy-if you don't know what the Bush Doctrine is, you should be fired if appointed into office or impeached if you were elected.

THE BUSH DOCTRINE totally supersedes THE MONROE DOCTRINE-in fact TBD eradicates TMD. Any remnants of TMD left in the SOS's playbook have been erased and voided by TBD. This chick tap-danced around her stupidity like a drunk stripper trying to dance around a greased up nudie bar pole. UNBEFUCKINGLIEVABLE!

[mikeyboy]

the fact that you watched 5 times is what is important
people switch channels when they do not like someone
when they cannot get enough of someone
then they watch them 5 times

speaking in general terms again
so dont get all defensive

Um.

Seriously?

No.

[epo]

the fact that you watched 5 times is what is important
people switch channels when they do not like someone
when they cannot get enough of someone
then they watch them 5 times

speaking in general terms again
so dont get all defensive

Here is your mistake. I'm a democratic scumbag and was trying to figure out if this was a trap. I actually don't give two shits about Sarah Palin.

[mikeyboy]

Too late.

EPO LOVES PALIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111

[HBox]

A couple more gems from this portion of the interview.

GIBSON: What insight into Russian actions, particularly in the last couple of weeks, does the proximity of the state give you?

PALIN: They're our next door neighbors and you can actually see Russia from land here in Alaska, from an island in Alaska.

GIBSON: What insight does that give you into what they're doing in Georgia?

PALIN: Well, I'm giving you that perspective of how small our world is and how important it is that we work with our allies to keep good relation with all of these countries, especially Russia. We will not repeat a Cold War. We must have good relationship with our allies, pressuring, also, helping us to remind Russia that it's in their benefit, also, a mutually beneficial relationship for us all to be getting along.

GIBSON: What insight does being close to Russia give you?

Palin: We're so close we can see them.

Gibson: And that helps you how...........

Palin: It's a small world after all It's a small world after all. It's a small world after all! It's a small small small small world!

We cannot repeat the Cold War. We are thankful that, under Reagan, we won the Cold War, without a shot fired, also. We've learned lessons from that in our relationship with Russia, previously the Soviet Union.

Way to show off some obscure trivia! Russia used to be the Soviet Union?! Get the heck out of town!

Might want to check on when the Cold Wat ended too.

[JerseySean]

Here is your mistake. I'm a democratic scumbag and was trying to figure out if this was a trap. I actually don't give two shits about Sarah Palin.

Lets be honest, you'd hit it

[HBox]

Too late.

EPO LOVES PALIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111

Epo and Sarah sitting in a tree

K-I-S-S-I-N-G

[epo]

Too late.

EPO LOVES PALIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111

Eww.

[JerseySean]

A couple more gems from this portion of the interview.



GIBSON: What insight does being close to Russia give you?

Palin: We're so close we can see them.

Gibson: And that helps you how...........

Palin: It's a small world after all It's a small world after all. It's a small world after all! It's a small small small small world!



Way to show off some obscure trivia! Russia used to be the Soviet Union?! Get the heck out of town!

Might want to check on when the Cold Wat ended too.

Stop it now we are nitpicking. I think that answer is fine.

[epo]

Lets be honest, you'd hit it

Apply the Bennington Doctrine and I HAVE to.

[mikeyboy]

Epo and Sarah sitting in a tree

K-I-S-S-I-N-G

EPO FATHERED TRIG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[epo]

Stop it now we are nitpicking. I think that answer is fine.

Dude, face it. The McCain campaign needs to keep her the fuck away from a non-scripted situation as much as possible.

[HBox]

I was nitpicking the Russia Soviet Union thing but she explained why being close to Russia helps her with foreign policy by saying she was close to Russia.

[Friday]

i dig democratic scumbags.

:devil2:

[scottinnj]

Apply the Bennington Doctrine and I HAVE to.

Well, it's common knowledge The Bennington Doctrine totally supersedes both The Bush Doctrine and The Monroe Doctrine, even if the TBD and TMD combine their wondertwin powers.

[IMSlacker]

Dude, face it. The McCain campaign needs to keep her the fuck away from a non-scripted situation as much as possible.

The debates are going to be brutal.

[HBox]

Apply the Bennington Doctrine and I HAVE to.

His world view?

[Recyclerz]

I've watched this 5 times and I've never seen a more unprepared candidate in my life.

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C'mon Epo. It was only 8 years ago. :wallbash:


I don't like to criticize people's religious beliefs but I'm thinking these evangelical Christian types are relying a little too heavily on Jesus coming back and bailing them out as their Plans A & B.

[JerseySean]

Dude, face it. The McCain campaign needs to keep her the fuck away from a non-scripted situation as much as possible.

I agree. she has been on the national stage for two weeks. Shes a newcomer man. As for debates:

I just finished watching a video on C-Span's website of the August, 2006 Republican debate in the Alaska governor's race. It pitted Frank Murkowski, the then-governor of the state and veteran of 22 years in the U.S. Senate, against Republican politician John Binkley and Wasilla mayor Sarah Palin. And all I have to say is that Palin was good — really good. It wasn't a debate in which the candidates were in each other's faces or throwing out zingers, but Palin clearly outshone her rivals — especially Murkowski, the longtime senator who played the role of the experienced statesman.

As far as substance was concerned, the debate was heavy — I mean heavy — on oil, natural gas, and the money that comes therefrom. To my ears, Palin knew a great deal about the subject and spoke with real authority about it — again outshining her rivals.

On a few other issues, there was a passage in the debate that will lay to rest all those reports we have seen that Palin supports abstinence-only education when it comes to sex. It seems Palin had written in a questionnaire that she opposed "explicit" sex-ed programs, so she was asked:

In a recent survey you said that you would support abstinence-until-marriage education but that you would not support explicit sex-ed programs. What are explicit sex-ed programs, and does that include talking about condoms in school?

Palin's answer:

No, I don't think that it includes something that is relatively benign. Explicit means explicit. No, I am pro-contraception, and I think kids who may not hear about it at home should hear about it in other avenues. So I'm not anti-contraception. But yeah, abstinence is another alternative that should be discussed with kids. I don't have a problem with that. That doesn't scare me, so it's something that I would support also.

Finally, Alaska does not have a death penalty — I did not know that — and Palin was asked for her opinion. Her answer was that if the state legislature decided to pass a narrowly focused death penalty, she would support it.


If you have time, you should definitely watch the debate.

[YourAmishDaddy]

Go back and read the quote. It isn't backpedaling, it's just that you read the Huffington Post's take on it and were caught off guard when you heard it in a different context. Happens to the best of us.

Mistake one is that you assume I read the Huffington Post.

The video.

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The part in question for me is not the "paraphrasing from Lincoln" part, but the words after that.

"That there is a plan, and that plan is God's plan"

That was pure editorializing, and her opinion.

[JerseySean]

Mistake one is that you assume I read the Huffington Post.

The video.

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The part in question for me is not the "paraphrasing from Lincoln" part, but the words after that.

"That there is a plan, and that plan is God's plan"

That was pure editorializing, and her opinion.

Yes, and your disdain and lack of pure understanding of what that means makes you the one who is out of touch. Catholics and Christians believe in the will of God. God has a plan for all of us. Also, this seeming disdain for political leaders faith makes me crazy. If there is one thing that would make me feel ok about an Obama Presidency, is that I truly believe that he would know that he answers to a higher power. That should be a prerequisite for our leaders. Otherwise, they beleive that they are the be all and all and that is dangerous.

[scottinnj]

Yes, and your disdain and lack of pure understanding of what that means makes you the one who is out of touch. Catholics and Christians believe in the will of God. God has a plan for all of us. Also, this seeming disdain for political leaders faith makes me crazy. If there is one thing that would make me feel ok about an Obama Presidency, is that I truly believe that he would know that he answers to a higher power. That should be a prerequisite for our leaders. Otherwise, they beleive that they are the be all and all and that is dangerous.

I just a clip on Fox News with Biden standing in a circle with some police and firefightes, and they were praying. To God. The earth didn't wobble on its axis in that situation either.

Politicians who exercise their faith is not a bad thing. If you disagree with their outlook on social issues, it's easy to dismiss them as kooky bible-thumpers.

Believe me, if you take God totally out of the public square, bad things will still happen. Look at China.
Killing baby girls after being born because the parents didn't have the proper birth permit issued to them isn't such a hot idea either.

[brettmojo]

Yes, and your disdain and lack of pure understanding of what that means makes you the one who is out of touch. Catholics and Christians believe in the will of God. God has a plan for all of us. Also, this seeming disdain for political leaders faith makes me crazy. If there is one thing that would make me feel ok about an Obama Presidency, is that I truly believe that he would know that he answers to a higher power. That should be a prerequisite for our leaders. Otherwise, they beleive that they are the be all and all and that is dangerous.
Yeah, so much more dangerous than people who believe they are doing the will of God... If anything history has taught us that those people are harmless.

[NewYorkDragons80]

Mistake one is that you assume I read the Huffington Post.

The video.

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The part in question for me is not the "paraphrasing from Lincoln" part, but the words after that.

"That there is a plan, and that plan is God's plan"

That was pure editorializing, and her opinion.
I was kinda being symbolic because most people read that quote from a biased source. You posted the clip and still managed to take something out of context in that 18 sec. She
said "We need to pray that there is a plan, and that plan is God's plan." She asks for it, she doesn't declare it.

[YourAmishDaddy]

Yes, and your disdain and lack of pure understanding of what that means makes you the one who is out of touch.

I have no disdain whatsoever for anyone's belief, faith, or whatever one needs to use to get by in day to day life.

What I do however ask is if it involves decisions that may affect all of us, your particular interpretation, or what your particular belief is, which I'm sure in a nation of 300 million people varies dramatically among us all be left out of universal decisions affecting us as a whole.

Put simply, your belief in whatever being lives above the clouds stops at your mental doorstep. Do NOT use your beliefs to determine my life's direction. Which especially holds valid if you and your beliefs are the ones maintaining the secret nuclear codes that could end all of society.

Get it?

[brettmojo]

Put simply, your belief in whatever being lives above the clouds stops at your mental doorstep. Do NOT use your beliefs to determine my life's direction. Which especially holds valid if you and your beliefs are the ones maintaining the secret nuclear codes that could end all of society.

Get it?
Or hindering medical research that could benefit all mankind.

[JerseySean]

I have no disdain whatsoever for anyone's belief, faith, or whatever one needs to use to get by in day to day life.

What I do however ask is if it involves decisions that may affect all of us, your particular interpretation, or what your particular belief is, which I'm sure in a nation of 300 million people varies dramatically among us all be left out of universal decisions affecting us as a whole.

Put simply, your belief in whatever being lives above the clouds stops at your mental doorstep. Do NOT use your beliefs to determine my life's direction. Which especially holds valid if you and your beliefs are the ones maintaining the secret nuclear codes that could end all of society.

Get it?

You just dont get it. It is not imposing anything on your life that is what I am talking about. what Palin was essentiallyu saying is that this is Gods plan and Gods will. Do not confuse that with God is telling me to do this so I must. It is a huge difference. So that is wrong for her to say that this is Gods will?

[JerseySean]

Or hindering medical research that could benefit all mankind.

That debate is over. No more need for embryonic stem cells. In 2006, you would have a point.

[YourAmishDaddy]

Or hindering medical research that could benefit all mankind.

Exactly.

What makes one's vision of God, and the belief in Jesus and one's particular faith the final deciding arbiter for everyone else? That is unacceptable.

[scottinnj]

Exactly.

What makes one's vision of God, and the belief in Jesus and one's particular faith the final deciding arbiter for everyone else? That is unacceptable.

How can you say that? You just made it sound as if what you believe in the final decision. How are you so sure you are right? And how do you know that everybody who is against embryonic stem cell research are Bible-Thumpers?

[YourAmishDaddy]

You just dont get it. It is not imposing anything on your life that is what I am talking about. what Palin was essentiallyu saying is that this is Gods plan and Gods will. Do not confuse that with God is telling me to do this so I must. It is a huge difference. So that is wrong for her to say that this is Gods will?

Who says this is God's will? Who decides this? As we march off troops to combat, or negotiate settlements in Israel, or mediate the transition in Pakistan, or monitor what happens in Georgia which set of standards are we to accept as the grand set of standards?

What you are asking me to accept is whomever is elected, based on their moral interpretations I am bound to live with them.

That is not what America was founded on. The only standard that applies is "Will you faithfully uphold and defend and protect the Constitution from all enemies, foreign and domestic?

All else is checked at the door. Sorry.

[YourAmishDaddy]

How can you say that? You just made it sound as if what you believe in the final decision.

What I believe in is final. For me. Not what you believe in, or anyone else believes in.

[JerseySean]

Who says this is God's will? Who decides this? As we march off troops to combat, or negotiate settlements in Israel, or mediate the transition in Pakistan, or monitor what happens in Georgia which set of standards are we to accept as the grand set of standards?

What you are asking me to accept is whomever is elected, based on their moral interpretations I am bound to live with them.

That is not what America was founded on. The only standard that applies is "Will you faithfully uphold and defend and protect the Constitution from all enemies, foreign and domestic?

All else is checked at the door. Sorry.

No dude. I honestly dont fault you, but you just dont get it. It isnt your fault, but you just lack the understanding of faith necessary to have this debate.

George Washington's second address is the only one to contain no mention of the Christian God. Thirty-four of the 55 addresses contain the word "God." The addresses that refer to, but do not contain the word "God" instead say Giver of Good, Heaven, Almighty, Divine, or Providence. The last president not to say "God" was Franklin D. Roosevelt (second address).

[JerseySean]

What I believe in is final. For me. Not what you believe in, or anyone else believes in.

And that is fine but dont demonize what you dont understand here.

[YourAmishDaddy]

I don't care if you believe in God. If you believe in ten Gods, or a hundred Gods. I don't care if you deify any pastor, or even yourself for all that it's worth.

I don't care if you are a devout Christian, Muslim, Hindu or what have you. I will not criticize you for your beliefs. Your beliefs, and your freedom to espouse, or even proselytize is yours to keep.

What I will not support is anyone taking those beliefs and making them public policy. I will not support anyone basing their actions in how they will lead and govern this nation by those beliefs. Your faith is a wonderful thing. We cal all desire to change people or reach and mold society in any way we wish to, in our private lives.

But when you accept the role as a governmental official. In the trust of a nation, which members of every faith, along with people of no faith even are included your beliefs will not be the deciding factor in how you handle policy.

You can say God, Jesus, Yahweh, Jehovah, Allah, a hundred times in any speech you like, but you better believe the day you decide to run the country on that is the day I will never support you. And work my hardest to get you out of government.

[scottinnj]

What I believe in is final. For me. Not what you believe in, or anyone else believes in.

Good. If you keep it that way. I understand that fear from you towards what I believe too. But when you insist that people of faith "check their faith at the door" when it comes to public debate, I don't think you understand the ramifications of that. A lot of people died not only under religious rulers, but also under authoritative governments that censored any mention of god (pick your faith) in the public square.

[JerseySean]

I don't care if you believe in God. If you believe in ten Gods, or a hundred Gods. I don't care if you deify any pastor, or even yourself for all that it's worth.

I don't care if you are a devout Christian, Muslim, Hindu or what have you. I will not criticize you for your beliefs. Your beliefs, and your freedom to espouse, or even proselytize is yours to keep.

What I will not support is anyone taking those beliefs and making them public policy. I will not support anyone basing their actions in how they will lead and govern this nation by those beliefs. Your faith is a wonderful thing. We cal all desire to change people or reach and mold society in any way we wish to, in our private lives.

But when you accept the role as a governmental official. In the trust of a nation, which members of every faith, along with people of no faith even are included your beliefs will not be the deciding factor in how you handle policy.

You can say God, Jesus, Yahweh, Jehovah, Allah, a hundred times in any speech you like, but you better believe the day you decide to run the country on that is the day I will never support you. And work my hardest to get you out of government.

So you never supported, Bush, Clinton, Bush, Reagan, Carter, Ford, Nixon, Johnson, Kennedy, Eisenhower, Truman, FDR, etc etc etc because they said Jesus? Who do you support?

[scottinnj]

I will not support anyone basing their actions in how they will lead and govern this nation by those beliefs.


What you mean is if those beliefs are not in jive with your beliefs. A lot of religious politicians base their social agenda on the liberal/progressive side of politics, and those people seem to be okay with you.

Obama wants some form of National Health Care because of his beliefs which were formed from his faith in God. I am against National Health Care because I haven't seen anyone come up with a way that will pay for it without bankrupting us.

Biden supports embryonic stem cell research because he believes it will help people with chronic diseases, because as a Catholic, he wants to use his power in the Senate to help end suffering. I am against embryonic stem cell research because no one has shown me when life begins, or how a fetus one day is a group of cells, and the next day is a self-aware human being, and until that can be proven, I feel it is quite arrogant of us to assume these embryos are ours to do with as we feel fit.

My point is that the common thread in all of this is that all three of us are religious, but we all disagree on things, all of it based on our set of morals provided to us because of our faith.

[YourAmishDaddy]

But when you insist that people of faith "check their faith at the door" when it comes to public debate, I don't think you understand the ramifications of that.

I said public policy. Big difference. Debate it publically all you want. But you won't send my kids to war because you believe Jesus told you to.

Get it?


So you never supported, Bush, Clinton, Bush, Reagan, Carter, Ford, Nixon, Johnson, Kennedy, Eisenhower, Truman, FDR, etc etc etc because they said Jesus? Who do you support?

Like I said. I'll support anyone up until the point of saying whatever they believe in. I don't care if they believe in God. And to be honest if these people believed in God so much, why have the majority of them in their own way left their mark on this country being abjectly contrary to what "God" is supposed to be?

Put simpler even still. If you believe in God so much, show me, by acting accordingly.

How hard is it to fathom, and understand that it's not what you say you believe in, it's your actions? And the fact that this nation is a nation built on rational, logical law. Not doctrine. That the final arbiter is justice. That the rule of law is the ultimate judge. Not feelings, or beliefs that waiver. But solid jurisprudence and law.

[JerseySean]

I said public policy. Big difference. Debate it publically all you want. But you won't send my kids to war because you believe Jesus told you to.

Get it?



Like I said, you DON'T get it.

But just out of curiosity, who is the your fav political figure?

[YourAmishDaddy]

I absolutely believe in God. I don't believe in religion because religion is man-made nonsense.

I believe in faith. But in the final assessment even God himself gave us all the power to do and choose for ourselves. I'd never use what I believed in to guide anyone else, or make policy to exclude someone else, or try to affect anyone else to try to persuade them to do things my way. That's just wrong.

Like I said, you DON'T get it.

But just out of curiosity, who is the your fav political figure?

What don't I get? Are you saying that if I believe in some religious figure. Let's call it The Almighty Zimunda. And if The Almighty Zimunda told me I should invade Luxembourg, that it is his will, I have the right to send your son or daughter to their possible death based on that?

Who isn't getting it? Seriously. This is no different than the radical Islamic wanting to use their dogma to kill Americans. Merely because some book of proverbs told them to.

[scottinnj]

I said public policy. Big difference. Debate it publically all you want. But you won't send my kids to war because you believe Jesus told you to.

Get it?


First of all, calm down. I GET IT alright? This is the place where we are free to say what is on our minds without another member of the board getting all worked up.

I would never send your kids to war because Jesus said so. That's crazy. I wish Bush had been listening to Jesus, because Jesus would have told him the intel on Iraq was a crock of shit. (you see, that's a joke, because us Christians believe Jesus is God and omniscient-ha ha, I'm funny, I made a funny!)

Clinton sent kids into war based on a moral decision that genocide is bad. Our nation was not being threatened, our national security was not at stake, and none of our allies were being invaded. He based sending the U.S. military into a region none of us knew about or cared about based on a moral decision that was rooted on his faith.
Europe, on the other hand, didn't give a shit about those being killed, and it took the United States to handhold the U.N. into a battle that saved many many people's lives. And they were the ones who worshipped that weird god who only can be seen if you face a certain way 5 times a day.

I ask you, how many more dead would there be if he "checked his faith at the door" the way you want?

[YourAmishDaddy]

First of all, calm down. I GET IT alright? This is the place where we are free to say what is on our minds without another member of the board getting all worked up.

I would never send your kids to war because Jesus said so. That's crazy. I wish Bush had been listening to Jesus, because Jesus would have told him the intel on Iraq was a crock of shit. (you see, that's a joke, because us Christians believe Jesus is God and omniscient-ha ha, I'm funny, I made a funny!)

Clinton sent kids into war based on a moral decision that genocide is bad. Our nation was not being threatened, our national security was not at stake, and none of our allies were being invaded. He based sending the U.S. military into a region none of us knew about or cared about based on a moral decision that was rooted on his faith.
Europe, on the other hand, didn't give a shit about those being killed, and it took the United States to handhold the U.N. into a battle that saved many many people's lives. And they were the ones who worshipped that weird god who only can be seen if you face a certain way 5 times a day.

I ask you, how many more dead would there be if he "checked his faith at the door" the way you want?

I do not believe in intervening into the affairs of any other sovereign nation based on moral decisions either. It gets weird and tricky the minute you deviate from the Constitution that clearly states that Congress decides based on the structure that says if we are in immediate threat of some attack, we authorize the commander in chief to defend the country. But only after a formal declaration of war is agreed upon.

That's the beauty of our system. And we've gotten away from that. You can't just declare war on a concept. Like genocide, or terrorism. You declare war on a country. One that has shown clear indication that they intend to harm you.

I was against our actions in the Balkans. Much like I'm against Iraq.

It's not our job to police the world, and make right the injustices hundreds of miles away. As you can see we're now broke, and can no longer maintain at this rate. We encourage freedom, and liberty for everyone, but can only be the defenders of our own.

[JerseySean]

I absolutely believe in God. I don't believe in religion because religion is man-made nonsense.

I believe in faith. But in the final assessment even God himself gave us all the power to do and choose for ourselves. I'd never use what I believed in to guide anyone else, or make policy to exclude someone else, or try to affect anyone else to try to persuade them to do things my way. That's just wrong.



What don't I get? Are you saying that if I believe in some religious figure. Let's call it The Almighty Zimunda. And if The Almighty Zimunda told me I should invade Luxembourg, that it is his will, I have the right to send your son or daughter to their possible death based on that?

Who isn't getting it? Seriously. This is no different than the radical Islamic wanting to use their dogma to kill Americans. Merely because some book of proverbs told them to.

Anyone who beleives that God or Jesus is telling them to invade a nation is fucking crazy. But to believe that God has a plan for us is not crazy. It is Christianity. If you are saying that Christianity is nuts and all Christians are, then fine. What I am saying is that you fail to be able to understand the difference between, "God told me to do this" and "This is God's plan"

[scottinnj]

I do not believe in intervening into the affairs of any other sovereign nation based on moral decisions either. It gets weird and tricky the minute you deviate from the Constitution that clearly states that Congress decides based on the structure that says if we are in immediate threat of some attack, we authorize the commander in chief to defend the country. But only after a formal declaration of war is agreed upon.

That's the beauty of our system. And we've gotten away from that. You can't just declare war on a concept. Like genocide, or terrorism. You declare war on a country. One that has shown clear indication that they intend to harm you.

I was against our actions in the Balkans. Much like I'm against Iraq.

It's not our job to police the world, and make right the injustices hundreds of miles away. As you can see we're now broke, and can no longer maintain at this rate. We encourage freedom, and liberty for everyone, but can only be the defenders of our own.

So you look at all of this from the Libertarian viewpoint, or am I wrong?

[JerseySean]

I do not believe in intervening into the affairs of any other sovereign nation based on moral decisions either. It gets weird and tricky the minute you deviate from the Constitution that clearly states that Congress decides based on the structure that says if we are in immediate threat of some attack, we authorize the commander in chief to defend the country. But only after a formal declaration of war is agreed upon.

That's the beauty of our system. And we've gotten away from that. You can't just declare war on a concept. Like genocide, or terrorism. You declare war on a country. One that has shown clear indication that they intend to harm you.

I was against our actions in the Balkans. Much like I'm against Iraq.

It's not our job to police the world, and make right the injustices hundreds of miles away. As you can see we're now broke, and can no longer maintain at this rate. We encourage freedom, and liberty for everyone, but can only be the defenders of our own.

Why do I get the idea that you can tell me exactly what a "moneybomb" is?

[scottinnj]

Why do I get the idea that you can tell me exactly what a "moneybomb" is?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/fc/MoneybombFlag.jpg

I ask you, who could it be?

[JerseySean]

The Founding Fathers envisioned a robustly Christian yet religiously tolerant America, with churches serving as vital institutions that would eclipse the state in importance. Throughout our nation’s history, churches have done what no government can ever do, namely teach morality and civility. Moral and civil individuals are largely governed by their own sense of right and wrong, and hence have little need for external government. This is the real reason the collectivist Left hates religion: Churches as institutions compete with the state for the people’s allegiance, and many devout people put their faith in God before their faith in the state. Knowing this, the secularists wage an ongoing war against religion, chipping away bit by bit at our nation’s Christian heritage. Christmas itself may soon be a casualty of that war.

December 30, 2003

Dr. Ron Paul is a Republican member of Congress from Texas. ..

[YourAmishDaddy]

I guess it's somewhat Libertarian where I am. At one time I believed I was conservative. But the massive spending and nation building and all going on showed me I was wrong.

Yes I do support Ron Paul on a lot of issues. And disagree with him on some as well. To be completely honest I'm probably more an anarcho-capitalist/Libertarian. Whatever I am though neither of the so called two major parties are worth supporting.

I don't think Christians are nuts. Clearly some of them are. But I also believe that many of the nutballs aren't Christians. I guess what I want is if you say you believe in God, and Christianity that kind of belief system should show itself better than what I see.

The hatred that comes from so called Christians says a lot.

And I add. Ron Paul is a very devout man of faith. Which is fine. I am practicing what I said I am. Ron Paul is not legislating from his religious beliefs. He's not advocating we all are subject to his religious beliefs, or his faith. At no time has Ron Paul defined acts of military aggression possibly "in God's plan" or wanted it to be alligned with God's plan.

[JerseySean]

I don't think Christians are nuts. Clearly some of them are. But I also believe that many of the nutballs aren't Christians. I guess what I want is if you say you believe in God, and Christianity that kind of belief system should show itself better than what I see.

The hatred that comes from so called Christians says a lot.

Fair enough, but remember that is a small vocal minority.

[Fez4PrezN2008]

Is there NO WAY to get this thread back on track ?!?!?
http://problemchylde.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/juno.jpg

I believe we're SUPPOSED to be gossiping about a knocked up 17 yr old chick here...

[scottinnj]

The hatred that comes from so called Christians says a lot.


Oh you and I agree on that. The post-9/11 rhetoric was jaw droppingly shocking to me, and I'm an evangelistic Christian. But then I remembered these were the same dopes who terrified me when I was an up and coming teenager, telling me AIDS was a punishment from God and all the gays were out to get me.

I was with my dad one day and told him that I though Robertson could not possibly be a Christian based on what we were taught by our preacher juxtaposed to Robertson's rhetoric.

He disagreed with me, although he did admit that Robertson does more to hurt our goal of spreading the gospel and reaching out to the poor and afflicted. That was an understatement, in my opinion.

I still believe that men like Robertson are what we Christians call "false prohets"-those that use just enough of the gospel to get you to think they are on the Lords side but turn out to be nothing more then snake-oil salesmen and carpet baggers out for their own acquistion of wealth and power.

[Recyclerz]

Extended excerpts from the ABC Interview

http://abcnews.go.com/print?id=5782924


Oooffa. This person is in way over her head. Tomorrow night looks like must-see trainwreck TV.

I think those bloggers (& posters here) who said this choice will be Exhibit A in the case to condemn McCain's judgement and decision-making style will be proven right fairly shortly.

Then the only test will be to see if the Republican Party's corollary (to PT Barnum) that "nobody didn't get elected by underestimating the intelligence of the American people" is born out for a third time in a row.

[scottinnj]

Is there NO WAY to get this thread back on track ?!?!?
http://problemchylde.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/juno.jpg

I believe we're SUPPOSED to be gossiping about a knocked up 17 yr old chick here...

Personally, preggo chicks are not my bag-that sexy bump you're fascinated with winds up being an 18 year drain on your checkbook.

[TooLowBrow]

I guess it's somewhat Libertarian where I am. At one time I believed I was conservative. But the massive spending and nation building and all going on showed me I was wrong.



you could still be conservative. i dont think anyone would label bush as a conservative after seeing how much hes spent. plus he doesnt try to conserve the environment. maybe i just dont understand what the word conservative means.

[YourAmishDaddy]

I still believe that men like Robertson are what we Christians call "false prohets"-those that use just enough of the gospel to get you to think they are on the Lords side but turn out to be nothing more then snake-oil salesmen and carpet baggers out for their own acquistion of wealth and power.

You'll never get an argument out of me on that one. Totally agree. And was kinda the point I was trying to make. The extremes are always unacceptable. We can work together though the rest of the spectrum.


Is there NO WAY to get this thread back on track ?!?!?
I believe we're SUPPOSED to be gossiping about a knocked up 17 yr old chick here...

Ok, sorry. But 17 year olds just cease to be hot to me anymore when they get knocked up.


Too soon?

[scottinnj]

Oooffa. This person is in way over her head.

That's why I don't understand the argument over the way she words her prayers.
The total lack of foreign policy knowledge has me astonished McCain picked her for his ticket-and she and I pretty much are in agreement on Bible theology.


The fact that she doesn't have a grasp on the layman's definition of The Bush Doctrine makes her totally unqualified for the job, and the fact that McCain picked her based only on the politics of appeasing the conservative wing of the GOP, in my opinion makes him unqualified to be my president.

[JerseySean]

Extended excerpts from the ABC Interview

http://abcnews.go.com/print?id=5782924


Oooffa. This person is in way over her head. Tomorrow night looks like must-see trainwreck TV.

I think those bloggers (& posters here) who said this choice will be Exhibit A in the case to condemn McCain's judgement and decision-making style will be proven right fairly shortly.

Then the only test will be to see if the Republican Party's corollary (to PT Barnum) that "nobody didn't get elected by underestimating the intelligence of the American people" is born out for a third time in a row.

It seems like Gibson was playing "gotcha" at times. she fumbled a few and she handled a few very well. I dont think most people will find that to be terrible. Id like to see the video though.

[JerseySean]

"Gotcha"

http://www.weeklystandard.com/weblogs/TWSFP/2008/09/kristol_the_washington_post_di.asp

[scottinnj]

I guess it's somewhat Libertarian where I am. At one time I believed I was conservative. But the massive spending and nation building and all going on showed me I was wrong.

you could still be conservative. i dont think anyone would label bush as a conservative after seeing how much hes spent. plus he doesnt try to conserve the environment. maybe i just dont understand what the word conservative means.

I think most conservatives who care about being conservative and true conservative ideas have left the GOP in droves and gone independant or libertarian.

I'm a conservative voting for Obama because I believe our national security can be greatly improved by becoming energy independant. I believe McCain is sincere when he says he wants to wean us off of foreign oil in the short term and oil as our major supply of energy in the long term. I really do. I just don't think the GOP as a whole is as serious as he is. Obama and McCain are basically identical in terms of energy independance, but Obama's party as a whole is more serious about alternative fuels then the GOP is.
I vehemently disagree with a lot of Obama's social policies, but I believe he is sincere when he says he wants bipartisan solutions to those policies, which means I as a conservative have a place at the table. So I'm comfortable with that.

I'm a conservative who supported the invasion of Iraq because I thought that there was a credible threat of WMDs being given to terrorists by Saddam Hussein.
After we found out the threat wasn't real, I supported the surge to stabilize the region so we could exit that theater gracefully and not leave a wave of carnage behind us. I believe the surge has worked, and I left the GOP because most people I know who are Republican are voting for McCain and hope he wins not because they like him (because of his "maverick" ways, they loathe him) but because a third term post 9/11 controlled by the GOP would validate their beliefs that the decision to invade Iraq was not only correct, but knowing what we know now, would still support the initial invasion. That inability to admit a mistake was made proved to me the party is broken and is looking out for its own good rather then the good of the country.

I can't quite go down the Libertarian path because I do believe certain things like drug use should be policed. I am Pro-Life, and although I know abortion will be with us forever, (even if Roe V Wade is overturned) I do support some sort of government regulation over the practice. Our leadership role in the world forces us to take the lead in foreign affairs-diplomatically, economically and militarily. I don't subscribe to the nationalisitc vibe libertarians have that we should be hands off when it comes to the rest of the world, and our national security should exclude supporting our allies when they are in trouble.

[YourAmishDaddy]

I think most conservatives who care about being conservative and true conservative ideas have left the GOP in droves and gone independant or libertarian.

I'm a conservative voting for Obama because I believe our national security can be greatly improved by becoming energy independant. I believe McCain is sincere when he says he wants to wean us off of foreign oil in the short term and oil as our major supply of energy in the long term. I really do. I just don't think the GOP as a whole is as serious as he is. Obama and McCain are basically identical in terms of energy independance, but Obama's party as a whole is more serious about alternative fuels then the GOP is.
I vehemently disagree with a lot of Obama's social policies, but I believe he is sincere when he says he wants bipartisan solutions to those policies, which means I as a conservative have a place at the table. So I'm comfortable with that.

I'm a conservative who supported the invasion of Iraq because I thought that there was a credible threat of WMDs being given to terrorists by Saddam Hussein.
After we found out the threat wasn't real, I supported the surge to stabilize the region so we could exit that theater gracefully and not leave a wave of carnage behind us. I believe the surge has worked, and I left the GOP because most people I know who are Republican are voting for McCain and hope he wins not because they like him (because of his "maverick" ways, they loathe him) but because a third term post 9/11 controlled by the GOP would validate their beliefs that the decision to invade Iraq was not only correct, but knowing what we know now, would still support the initial invasion. That inability to admit a mistake was made proved to me the party is broken and is looking out for its own good rather then the good of the country.

I can't quite go down the Libertarian path because I do believe certain things like drug use should be policed. I am Pro-Life, and although I know abortion will be with us forever, (even if Roe V Wade is overturned) I do support some sort of government regulation over the practice. Our leadership role in the world forces us to take the lead in foreign affairs-diplomatically, economically and militarily. I don't subscribe to the nationalisitc vibe libertarians have that we should be hands off when it comes to the rest of the world, and our national security should exclude supporting our allies when they are in trouble.

Seems we agree on more things than we disagree.

[frye hole]

"Gotcha"

http://www.weeklystandard.com/weblogs/TWSFP/2008/09/kristol_the_washington_post_di.asp

By "Gotcha" do you mean they caught Palin screwing up?

"telling an Iraq-bound brigade of soldiers that included her son that they would "defend the innocent from the enemies who planned and carried out and rejoiced in the death of thousands of Americans."

By no stretch of the imagination is that true.

[yojimbo7248]

By "Gotcha" do you mean they caught Palin screwing up?

"telling an Iraq-bound brigade of soldiers that included her son that they would "defend the innocent from the enemies who planned and carried out and rejoiced in the death of thousands of Americans."

By no stretch of the imagination is that true.

This quote hits on the core reason that I don't get these populist, evangelical Christian Repulblicans. In a way, I envy that they can believe that our nation sends troops overseas to protect innocents. I don't doubt their sincerity. My family is evangelical Chrisitian and they love Palin. They tell me about how the US is the greatest nation in the history of the world since it is founded on Christianity and God is guiding Bush. If we aren't following God's plan, it is the Democrat's fault for interfering with W. I, on the other hand, think that there is nothing exceptional about the US other than the sheer size of our current economic and military power. We are no more moral or blessed by God than any other country. We use our power to secure energy resources and keep our companies profitable. Nice sounding language about freeing the oppressed is putting lipstick on a..on a...I can't think of a good metaphor.
Every nation, tribe, club throughout history uses its power for its own self interest. We are no exception. We don't give a shit about innocents. I think we would be less prone to get into wars if we were more honest about why we wage them.

[A.J.]

You just dont get it. It is not imposing anything on your life that is what I am talking about. what Palin was essentiallyu saying is that this is Gods plan and Gods will. Do not confuse that with God is telling me to do this so I must. It is a huge difference. So that is wrong for her to say that this is Gods will?

I thought man had free will. At least that's what Geddy Lee told me.

[epo]

Extended excerpts from the ABC Interview

http://abcnews.go.com/print?id=5782924


Oooffa. This person is in way over her head. Tomorrow night looks like must-see trainwreck TV.

I think those bloggers (& posters here) who said this choice will be Exhibit A in the case to condemn McCain's judgement and decision-making style will be proven right fairly shortly.

Then the only test will be to see if the Republican Party's corollary (to PT Barnum) that "nobody didn't get elected by underestimating the intelligence of the American people" is born out for a third time in a row.

I'll need to see it on video to see how it plays.

I don't think Charlie was really playing gotcha though. This is just the process that the media will follow to test this woman and see if she has "it". Obviously her answer on the Bush Doctrine was not up to par.

[Ritalin]

It seems like Gibson was playing "gotcha" at times. she fumbled a few and she handled a few very well. I dont think most people will find that to be terrible. Id like to see the video though.

"Gotcha" is republican for "she didn't know the answer".

[NewYorkDragons80]

I don't think Charlie was really playing gotcha though. This is just the process that the media will follow to test this woman and see if she has "it". Obviously her answer on the Bush Doctrine was not up to par.
It wasn't. However, I do think the rest of it went well enough that Republicans will be able to say they got what they wanted. Gibson was trying to corner her into giving a "yes" or "no" on Pakistani consent for hunting bin Laden, and she was basically saying yes, but he wanted the sound bite. Gibson was doing his job and I'm not criticizing him, but he kinda made it seem like she was being slippery when anybody could read between the lines as to what she meant.

[Recyclerz]

It seems like Gibson was playing "gotcha" at times. she fumbled a few and she handled a few very well. I dont think most people will find that to be terrible. Id like to see the video though.

I think the whole process of covering politics has been so dumbed down that "playing Gotcha" is the current, pejorative term for journalists doing what they are supposed to be doing - holding politicians accountable for their policies or their proposed policies and forcing them to give some of the reasoning that led them to their positions. The mainstream press is so lazy and/or ratings driven that they don't do their fundamental jobs but, WWE style, just follow the storylines that get them the most drama. And, on the rare occasion, when a member of the press does stir from their torpor to actually nail a politician (or surrogate) for just talking 100% shit, Democrat or Republican, the side getting nailed cries foul and feels like they are getting picked on.

I agree that the video will add a dimension to the interview that isn't reflected in these transcripts. This may be just me being snarky, but I think a REAL Gotcha moment would have been if Gibson asked the Governor if she knew what hubris means because from her answer I'm guessing she doesn't.

I'm also guessing that the questions that you think she answered well are the ones that are driving me the most crazy- ie. the ones like on Georgia and Ukraine joining NATO to preserve the young democracies. I realize that she is repeating the standard NeoCon rhetoric; what I'd really like to see is an informed press corps go after the supposed intellectuals behind the movement (Kristol, Wolfowitz, Bolton, et al.) to get them to explain how spending all this $ and putting our military at risk is a good thing for the Country. But I'll save that rant for a different thread. :smile:

[NewYorkDragons80]

I realize that she is repeating the standard NeoCon rhetoric; what I'd really like to see is an informed press corps go after the supposed intellectuals behind the movement (Kristol, Wolfowitz, Bolton, et al.) to get them to explain how spending all this $ and putting our military at risk is a good thing for the Country. But I'll save that rant for a different thread. :smile:
I thought nation-building was a good thing and I still do, but I saw who did the building and how they got the job and it makes me furious. Nation-building on its own is acceptable, IMO. What enrages me is the outright ineptitude and apathy that pervades the armed forces (and probably most of the rest of the federal govt).

[ChrisBrown]

I thought nation-building was a good thing and I still do, but I saw who did the building and how they got the job and it makes me furious. Nation-building on its own is acceptable, IMO. What enrages me is the outright ineptitude and apathy that pervades the armed forces (and probably most of the rest of the federal govt).

Our military has one mission - kill our enemies. it wasn't designed to build nations or act as a police force or do anything other than blow shit up and destroy people.

[NewYorkDragons80]

Our military has one mission - kill our enemies. it wasn't designed to build nations or act as a police force or do anything other than blow shit up and destroy people.
You believe it should only be used to kill enemies. However, you mentioned design. I can tell you that the expeditionary mindset is now part of doctrine. Like it or not, it is part of the design.

[Recyclerz]

I suspect that I disagree on certain policies with ScottinNJ but I'm loving his reasoning. It is, dare I say, Bennington-like.


This quote hits on the core reason that I don't get these populist, evangelical Christian Repulblicans. In a way, I envy that they can believe that our nation sends troops overseas to protect innocents. I don't doubt their sincerity. My family is evangelical Chrisitian and they love Palin. They tell me about how the US is the greatest nation in the history of the world since it is founded on Christianity and God is guiding Bush. If we aren't following God's plan, it is the Democrat's fault for interfering with W. I, on the other hand, think that there is nothing exceptional about the US other than the sheer size of our current economic and military power. We are no more moral or blessed by God than any other country. We use our power to secure energy resources and keep our companies profitable. Nice sounding language about freeing the oppressed is putting lipstick on a..on a...I can't think of a good metaphor.
Every nation, tribe, club throughout history uses its power for its own self interest. We are no exception. We don't give a shit about innocents. I think we would be less prone to get into wars if we were more honest about why we wage them.

I'm also liking Yojimbo's thinking here. I'd quibble a little bit in that this country is a little exceptional in that there were ideas and ideals that motivated the guys that got it started as much as, or I would argue more than, naked self interest. But we have probably frittered away most of the credibility from that head start, although I would posit, not all.

[ChrisBrown]

You believe it should only be used to kill enemies. However, you mentioned design. I can tell you that the expeditionary mindset is now part of doctrine. Like it or not, it is part of the design.

You're right. There is no escaping that our doctrine has changed and I think it is a mistake. I think a lot of this is due to civilian leadership from both parties who don't understand the military. The Army and Marines (I can't speak for the Navy or Air Force) have one mission - win wars. yes, we have the civil affairs, military police, psyops, intelligence MOS's but they are supporting the war fighters.

[Recyclerz]

I thought nation-building was a good thing and I still do, but I saw who did the building and how they got the job and it makes me furious. Nation-building on its own is acceptable, IMO. What enrages me is the outright ineptitude and apathy that pervades the armed forces (and probably most of the rest of the federal govt).

Dragons, I know you signed up for the military for the right reasons and I give you major props and respect for it. Nation-building is a very tricky issue though and it is definitely not a "one-size fits all" solution. The same valid criticisms that old-school Conservatives aimed at the Welfare State policies in the US apply to nation building, but even more so. Throwing money (resources, et al.) at people to get them to change their behavior is often wasted and a little insulting (or patriarchal) on top of that. There are all kinds of cultural issues that could further screw things up.

However, there are times, or at least instances, where it does work. I think the standard that we should hold our politicians to when they propose this kind of thing is that they explain why they think it will work in the particular instance and an honest explanation of what could go wrong if it doesn't. That is the least we should expect when taxpayers are footing the bill and people like you are putting so much more on the line.

[NewYorkDragons80]

Dragons, I know you signed up for the military for the right reasons and I give you major props and respect for it. Nation-building is a very tricky issue though and it is definitely not a "one-size fits all" solution. The same valid criticisms that old-school Conservatives aimed at the Welfare State policies in the US apply to nation building, but even more so. Throwing money (resources, et al.) at people to get them to change their behavior is often wasted and a little insulting (or patriarchal) on top of that. There are all kinds of cultural issues that could further screw things up.

However, there are times, or at least instances, where it does work. I think the standard that we should hold our politicians to when they propose this kind of thing is that they explain why they think it will work in the particular instance and an honest explanation of what could go wrong if it doesn't. That is the least we should expect when taxpayers are footing the bill and people like you are putting so much more on the line.
I completely agree. It's not a one-size fits all solution, but we WERE welcomed into Iraq very enthusiastically, and it was our violation of that trust and incompetence in delivering our promises that led to the insurgency. The American public was never leveled with by anyone in the cabinet at any time ever. Regardless of your views on John McCain, he has pretty much leveled with us and told us what kind of sacrifices this will take. I don't think we'll ever see a group of people as reticent to public debate as the one we're currently living under. Politics aside, both candidates represent a marked departure from that.

[robot artist]

OK, so I'm watching this interview with Sarah Palin on ABC, and it's official. I hate this cunt.

She cannot answer a single question with a straight answer. She constantly goes off into vague and meandering rhetoric, never actually addressing the specifics of the query. Talk about smoke and mirrors.

And I never liked Charlie Gibson before, but this guy is knows his shit! Let's run him for the VP.

[brettmojo]

OK, so I'm watching this interview with Sarah Palin on ABC, and it's official. I hate this cunt.

She cannot answer a single question with a straight answer. She constantly goes off into vague and meandering rhetoric, never actually addressing the specifics of the query. Talk about smoke and mirrors.

And I never liked Charlie Gibson before, but this guy is knows his shit! Let's run him for the VP.

http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/3545/welcometothepartypalal3.jpg
Welcome to the party, pal.

[dino_electropolis]

with 114,697 votes.



Are 114,697 people, some of whom are Eskimo, enough to put her next in line to run the world?



Did i mention Eskimos?

[mikeyboy]

with 114,697 votes.



Are 114,697 people, some of whom are Eskimo, enough to put her next in line to run the world?



Did i mention Eskimos?

I'm not sure why you find this shocking. Alaska has a population somewhere just north of 600K. If she got 700,000 votes, I would be concerned.

[Friday]

whoah

this thread totally moved, dude...

[dino_electropolis]

I'm not sure why you find this shocking. Alaska has a population somewhere just north of 600K. If she got 700,000 votes, I would be concerned.

True true.....


Myself? Not so much expressing shock as reminding people about whats what.

Its easy to get lost in her soft, alluring eyes - wishin you could trace the line of her lips with your fingertip while.......


.....McCain/Palin '08!!!

[JerseySean]

True true.....


Myself? Not so much expressing shock as reminding people about whats what.

Its easy to get lost in her soft, alluring eyes - wishin you could trace the line of her lips with your fingertip while.......


.....McCain/Palin '08!!!

Biden just barely edged her out. 135,253 votes in 2002.

[Friday]

whoah

this thread totally moved, dude...

and moved again.

do the mods here have any idea what they are doing?

:bye:

[epo]

Biden just barely edged her out. 135,253 votes in 2002.

He totally whipped her ass!

[drucifer]

Doug Stanhope's latest web project:

http://www.savingbristol.com/

Spread the word.

[Rock Coat Man]

This bitch is wacko. Soccer mom for vp?



http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:I4yYivccrAoJ::www.gov.state.ak.us/photos/Gov-Palin-2006_Official.jpg

[GreatAmericanZero]

Doug Stanhope's latest web project:

http://www.savingbristol.com/

Spread the word.

haha doug stanhope rules. If I was Bristol, i'd take him up on this. How cool would it be to leave your religious right, annoying, alaskan family and move to Arizona and do shrooms with Doug Stanhope everynight. It would be awesome

[HBox]

This woman sounds exactly like President Bush

So when there was a vacancy at the top of the State Division of Agriculture, she appointed a high school classmate, Franci Havemeister, to the $95,000-a-year directorship. A former real estate agent, Ms. Havemeister cited her childhood love of cows as one of her qualifications for running the roughly $2 million agency.

Ms. Havemeister was one of at least five schoolmates Ms. Palin hired, often at salaries far exceeding their private sector wages.

And four months ago, a Wasilla blogger, Sherry Whitstine, who chronicles the governor’s career with an astringent eye, answered her phone to hear an assistant to the governor on the line, she said.

“You should be ashamed!” Ivy Frye, the assistant, told her. “Stop blogging. Stop blogging right now!”

Throughout her political career, she has pursued vendettas, fired officials who crossed her and sometimes blurred the line between government and personal grievance, according to a review of public records and interviews with 60 Republican and Democratic legislators and local officials.

In Wasilla, a builder said he complained to Mayor Palin when the city attorney put a stop-work order on his housing project. She responded, he said, by engineering the attorney’s firing.

Interviews show that Ms. Palin runs an administration that puts a premium on loyalty and secrecy. The governor and her top officials sometimes use personal e-mail accounts for state business; dozens of e-mail messages obtained by The New York Times show that her staff members studied whether that could allow them to circumvent subpoenas seeking public records.

Rick Steiner, a University of Alaska professor, sought the e-mail messages of state scientists who had examined the effect of global warming on polar bears. (Ms. Palin said the scientists had found no ill effects, and she has sued the federal government to block the listing of the bears as endangered.) An administration official told Mr. Steiner that it would cost $468,784 to process his request.

When Mr. Steiner finally obtained the e-mail messages — through a federal records request — he discovered that state scientists had in fact agreed that the bears were in danger, records show.

“I understood from the call that Todd wasn’t happy with me hiring John and he’d like to see him not there,” Mr. Harris said.

“The Palin family gets upset at personal issues,” he added. “And at our level, they want to strike back.”

But careers were turned upside down. The mayor quickly fired the town’s museum director, John Cooper. Later, she sent an aide to the museum to talk to the three remaining employees. “He told us they only wanted two,” recalled Esther West, one of the three, “and we had to pick who was going to be laid off.” The three quit as one.

In 1997, Ms. Palin fired the longtime city attorney, Richard Deuser, after he issued the stop-work order on a home being built by Don Showers, another of her campaign supporters.

Your attorney, Mr. Showers told Ms. Palin, is costing me lots of money.

Ms. Palin ordered city employees not to talk to the press.

But in 1995, Ms. Palin, then a city councilwoman, told colleagues that she had noticed the book “Daddy’s Roommate” on the shelves and that it did not belong there, according to Ms. Chase and Mr. Stein. Ms. Chase read the book, which helps children understand homosexuality, and said it was inoffensive; she suggested that Ms. Palin read it.

“Sarah said she didn’t need to read that stuff,” Ms. Chase said. “It was disturbing that someone would be willing to remove a book from the library and she didn’t even read it.”

In the middle of the primary, a conservative columnist in the state, Paul Jenkins, unearthed e-mail messages showing that Ms. Palin had conducted campaign business from the mayor’s office. Ms. Palin handled the crisis with a street fighter’s guile.

“I told her it looks like she did the same thing that Randy Ruedrich did,” Mr. Jenkins recalled. “And she said, ‘Yeah, what I did was wrong.’ ”

Mr. Jenkins hung up and decided to forgo writing about it. His phone rang soon after.

Mr. Jenkins said a reporter from Fairbanks, reading from a Palin news release, demanded to know why he was “smearing” her. “Now I look at her and think: ‘Man, you’re slick,’ ” he said.

Before one forum, Mr. Halcro said he saw aides shovel reports at Ms. Palin as she crammed. Her showman’s instincts rarely failed. She put the pile of reports on the lectern. Asked what she would do about health care policy, she patted the stack and said she would find an answer in the pile of solutions.

Ms. Palin chose Talis Colberg, a borough assemblyman from the Matanuska valley, as her attorney general, provoking a bewildered question from the legal community: “Who?” Mr. Colberg, who did not return calls, moved from a one-room building in the valley to one of the most powerful offices in the state, supervising some 500 people.

“I called him and asked, ‘Do you know how to supervise people?’ ” said a family friend, Kathy Wells. “He said, ‘No, but I think I’ll get some help.’ ”

The Wasilla High School yearbook archive now doubles as a veritable directory of state government. Ms. Palin appointed Mr. Bitney, her former junior high school band-mate, as her legislative director and chose another classmate, Joe Austerman, to manage the economic development office for $82,908 a year. Mr. Austerman had established an Alaska franchise for Mailboxes Etc.

Yet recent controversy has marred Ms. Palin’s reform credentials. In addition to the trooper investigation, lawmakers in April accused her of improperly culling thousands of e-mail addresses from a state database for a mass mailing to rally support for a policy initiative.

Ms. Palin and aides use their private e-mail addresses for state business. On Feb. 7, Frank Bailey, a high-level aide, wrote to Ms. Palin’s state e-mail address to discuss appointments. Another aide fired back: “Frank, this is not the governor’s personal account.”

Mr. Bailey responded: “Whoops~!”

Many lawmakers contend that Ms. Palin is overly reliant on a small inner circle that leaves her isolated. Democrats and Republicans alike describe her as often missing in action. Since taking office in 2007, Ms. Palin has spent 312 nights at her Wasilla home, some 600 miles to the north of the governor’s mansion in Juneau, records show.

During the last legislative session, some lawmakers became so frustrated with her absences that they took to wearing “Where’s Sarah?” pins.

Many politicians say they typically learn of her initiatives — and vetoes — from news releases.

It is part of a pattern, Mr. Fagan said, in which Ms. Palin characterizes critics as “bad people who are anti-Alaska.”

“I was thinking, I don’t remember giving up my First Amendment rights,” Ms. Woodruff said. “Just because you’re not going gaga over Sarah doesn’t mean you can’t speak your mind.”

Read more here. (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/14/us/politics/14palin.html?pagewanted=5&_r=2&hp&adxnnlx=1221343224-6oa%20mZMePxbBlRTeH6J6Dg)

[YourAmishDaddy]

Rick Steiner, a University of Alaska professor..

http://webzoom.freewebs.com/rfgolds/Rick%20Steiner%20Autograph%20pic-medium.png

What the hell do these people do up there?

[KnoxHarrington]

I think the Palin honeymoon is ending. She'll get the rubes out,b ut that's it. She will have very limited, if any, crossover appeal.

[keithy_19]

http://webzoom.freewebs.com/rfgolds/Rick%20Steiner%20Autograph%20pic-medium.png

What the hell do these people do up there?

Bark and body slam shit.

[JerseySean]

I think the Palin honeymoon is ending. She'll get the rubes out,b ut that's it. She will have very limited, if any, crossover appeal.

Honeymoon? Huh? What have you been watching?

[epo]

Honeymoon? Huh? What have you been watching?

Probably reading everything from Ron Fournier and the Associated Press.

[epo]

So I was speaking with a chaplain this morning about the Charlie Gibson - Governor Palin interview, and I got some insight into this whole Bush Doctrine thing.

Clearly she didn't know what the Bush Doctrine was...but her answer was really telling. Here is the exchange:

“Do you agree with the Bush doctrine?”

“In what respect, Charlie?” the Alaska governor said.

“The Bush — well, what do you — what do you interpret it to be?” Gibson challenged.

“His world view?” Palin queried.

“No, the Bush doctrine, enunciated September 2002, before the Iraq war,” Gibson said.

Apparently in the land of hardcore evangelicals the word "doctrine" is associated with an individual's world view in the theological standpoint. So since she didn't know what the Bush Doctrine is, she wanted to clarify if Charlie Gibson was asking her a question about religion. Hence the confused look on her face at the time.

This chick is crazy.

[A.J.]

Apparently in the land of hardcore evangelicals the word "doctrine" is associated with an individual's world view in the theological standpoint. So since she didn't know what the Bush Doctrine is, she wanted to clarify if Charlie Gibson was asking her a question about religion. Hence the confused look on her face at the time.

This chick is crazy.

As opposed to other evangelicals?

[Zorro]

So I was speaking with a chaplain this morning about the Charlie Gibson - Governor Palin interview, and I got some insight into this whole Bush Doctrine thing.

Clearly she didn't know what the Bush Doctrine was...but her answer was really telling. Here is the exchange:



Apparently in the land of hardcore evangelicals the word "doctrine" is associated with an individual's world view in the theological standpoint. So since she didn't know what the Bush Doctrine is, she wanted to clarify if Charlie Gibson was asking her a question about religion. Hence the confused look on her face at the time.

This chick is crazy.


I'm not sure Bush knows what the Bush doctrine is...

[epo]

As opposed to other evangelicals?

Oh I understand.

I'm just surprised nobody in our "liberal corporate media" pointed this out. Maybe one of the corporate media groups could do us a favor, hire a former evangelical with theological training and do some Palin-to-English translations.

[A.J.]

I say hire this guy. He speaks in tongues you know.

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Wolves/robert_tilton-false_prophet.jpg

[Zorro]

Oh I understand.

I'm just surprised nobody in our "liberal corporate media" pointed this out. Maybe one of the corporate media groups could do us a favor, hire a former evangelical with theological training and do some Palin-to-English translations.

Yeah right after they hire someone who can explain how the Democratic VP nominee belongs to a church that preaches homosexualty is a sin...

[TheMojoPin]

Palin = neo-con, not a classic conservative as the hype would have you believe: (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122143893857134389.html)

Last week, Republican presidential candidate Sen. John McCain said his running mate, Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, hadn't sought earmarks or special-interest spending from Congress, presenting her as a fiscal conservative. But state records show Gov. Palin has asked U.S. taxpayers to fund $453 million in specific Alaska projects over the past two years.

Sen. Barack Obama requested a total of $860 million in earmarks in his Senate years, according to Taxpayers for Common Sense. That doesn't include $78 million for projects that were national in scope and had been requested by many lawmakers. Sen. Obama halted all earmark requests in fiscal 2009.

It is difficult to compare Sen. Obama's earmark record with Gov. Palin's -- their states differ in size, for instance, and the two candidates play different roles in the process. But using the same calculation that the McCain campaign uses, the total amount of earmarked dollars divided by the number of working days while each held office (assuming a five-day workweek, every week, for both), Gov. Palin sought $980,000 per workday, compared with roughly $893,000 for Sen. Obama.

[TheMojoPin]

Yeah right after they hire someone who can explain how the Democratic VP nominee belongs to a church that preaches homosexualty is a sin...

Sadly, churches that don't preach that are few and far between. Generalization? You betcha. Seeing that dogma in dozens of churches around the world firsthand is one of the main things that drove me from my faith. It's everywhere.

[epo]

Yeah right after they hire someone who can explain how the Democratic VP nominee belongs to a church that preaches homosexualty is a sin...

Yea...the Catholic Church is so mysterious.

Crazy? Sure. But we know about them.

[A.J.]

Yea...the Catholic Church is so mysterious.

Crazy? Sure. But we know about them.

Do we???

http://bookreviewsandmore.ca/uploaded_images/OpusDei-Walsh-720725.jpg

[Zorro]

Yea...the Catholic Church is so mysterious.

Crazy? Sure. But we know about them.

There are 16 million members of the Assemblies of God...if you don't know about them it's your fault not theirs....

[scottinnj]

Seems we agree on more things than we disagree.

Of course we do. We are fellow Americans. I wish more of our fellow citizens remembered that, instead of regurgitating the Sean Hannity and Randy Rhodes diatribes.

[scottinnj]

The pastor who clashed with Palin-Salon.com (http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2008/09/15/bess/index.html)

Regarding the book-banning attempts. But I posted this more for the AOG side of the story:
It confirmed, they said, that God was making use of Wasilla. "She will take our message to the world!" rejoiced an Assembly of God youth ministry leader, as the church band rocked the high-vaulted wooden building with its electric gospel.

Uh...what message is that, Mr. Youth Ministry Leader?
If elected she is the VP. Not the Nation's Preacher. I'm happy with the Graham family and Dr. Robert Schuller for those tasks. SHE IS GOING TO BE VP.

Pastor Ed Kalnins warned his congregation not to talk with any journalists who might have been lurking in the pews -- and directly warned this reporter( Edit: this is a journalistic tool to speak in third person-continue reading:clap:)
not to interview any of his flock.

Why would the pastor tell the author of this story not to interview anyone?


Also a story from Time.com regarding "Troopergate"

Palin and Troopergate: A Primer-Time.com (http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1840675,00.html?xid=feed-cnn-topics&iref=werecommend)

These were sent to me from my sister. I thought it would be good information for the board. Enjoy!

[KnoxHarrington]

OK, we all know that Sarah Palin is against the "Bridge to Nowhere" -- or, at least she has been since it became clear that the money wasn't there for it. She still supports another $600 million bridge project that does go somewhere -- to Wasilia. But the project has been attacked numerous times on various grounds.

"This is basically an incredibly expensive project that doesn't help commuters, doesn't help create jobs and may drive whales to extinction," said Justin Massey, an attorney advising environmentalists opposed to the proposal. "It is also a project that serves the area where the governor is from, which is near and dear to her heart."

There are concerns that construction will disrupt habitat for threatened beluga whales, and that while it helps some people commuting in the Wasilia area, it makes traffic far worse for others.

So why so insistent on it? It couldn't have to do with who supports it, could it?

The bridge is popular with property developers — including a group comprised of [US Representative Don] Young's son-in-law, the former legislative director for indicted Republican Sen. Ted Stevens and three others — who own land across from Anchorage on the inlet's western side.

But she's a reformer cleaning up Alaska!

I'll close this with a quote on the bridge from a Senator. Guess who:

He called Young's highway bill a "monstrosity" that was "terrifying in its fiscal consequences."

"I want no part of this," [Mystery Senator] said in a July 2005 statement. "This legislation is not — I emphasize not — my way of legislating."

Obviously some liberal, right? Maybe that socialist dude Sanders, huh?

Nope. It's John McCain, R-AZ.

Maverick!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080916/ap_on_el_pr/palin_bridge_to_wasilla;_ylt=AqPKlNJBnuMse7exF6fNG V.s0NUE

[thejives]

OK, we all know that Sarah Palin is against the "Bridge to Nowhere" -- or, at least she has been since it became clear that the money wasn't there for it. She still supports another $600 million bridge project that does go somewhere -- to Wasilia. But the project has been attacked numerous times on various grounds.



There are concerns that construction will disrupt habitat for threatened beluga whales, and that while it helps some people commuting in the Wasilia area, it makes traffic far worse for others.

So why so insistent on it? It couldn't have to do with who supports it, could it?



But she's a reformer cleaning up Alaska!

I'll close this with a quote on the bridge from a Senator. Guess who:



Obviously some liberal, right? Maybe that socialist dude Sanders, huh?

Nope. It's John McCain, R-AZ.

Maverick!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080916/ap_on_el_pr/palin_bridge_to_wasilla;_ylt=AqPKlNJBnuMse7exF6fNG V.s0NUE

Sarah Palin is turning everyone into a goddam Seymour Hersh.
Digging up her scandals is like Jed Clampet discovering oil.

The presidential candidate slams his VP's road works project while simultaneously touting her as a reformer of his own ilk?

Who the hell decided vetting was unnecessary?

[epo]

As a mayor, Sarah Palin was such a "reformer" and a moralist against waste that she bought herself a $24,000 SUV on taxpayer money. That's right, the mayor of a 6,000 town bought herself a $24K vehicle in 1997 (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/14/us/politics/14palin.html?_r=1&pagewanted=2&em&oref=slogin).

And she used city money to buy a white Suburban for the mayor’s use — employees sarcastically called it the mayor-mobile.

This chick is so boring.

Worst
Maverick
Ever.

[celery]

Palin's Favorability Ratings Begin to Falter (http://blog.newsweek.com/blogs/stumper/archive/2008/09/16/palin-s-favorability-ratings-begin-to-falter.aspx)

[scottinnj]

Oh, and having Carly Fiorina stump McCain's economic saavy is just great stuff to watch.

"I'm gonna ruin Compaq and my own company by combining them and destroying all the good parts"

[epo]

I know Governor Palin got a little bit of positive press for her pro-McCain/Palin rally today, but it was overshadowed by a less nationally covered event. It was covered by Mudflats, an outstanding Alaskan blogger. (http://mudflats.wordpress.com/2008/09/14/alaska-women-reject-palin-rally-is-huge/)

The "Alaska Women Reject Palin" rally drew over 1400 people in Anchorage today, making it the largest political rally in the history of Alaska.

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii49/j2christ/AlaskaProtest.jpg

Of course Fox News didn't cover that....did they?

[scottinnj]

Of course Fox News didn't cover that....did they?


Not a chance. Greta was trying to nail down what to call Palin's husband:

So, they call you the "First Dude?"


Isn't OJ on trial, Greta?

[HBox]

Looks like Sarah Palin was conducting government business through a Yahoo! mail account and some hackers decided to go an hack the account, which they did with ease.

She is just not an intelligent person at all.

I removed the link because I scrolled further down at this website posted screen grabs of personal pics and a contact list with her husband's email and Bristol's cell phone number. If you are a creep you can go find the link yourself.

[Furtherman]

Oh man that is hilarious. Pray for strength!


Dummy.

[KnoxHarrington]

Looks like Sarah Palin was conducting government business through a Yahoo! mail account and some hackers decided to go an hack the account, which they did with ease.

She is just not an intelligent person at all.

I removed the link because I scrolled further down at this website posted screen grabs of personal pics and a contact list with her husband's email and Bristol's cell phone number. If you are a creep you can go find the link yourself.

It'll be interesting how the Republicans spin this. They'll try to change the story on this from the fact that Palin is using a fucking Yahoo account to possibly conduct official state business outside the scrutiny public records usually get to a tale of how this brave woman is being victimized by far-leftists who hate her.

But it's not working anymore. The Palin honeymoon is over. It's becoming clearer she lacks the judgment and skill to be President. And if you're going to be Vice-President, you have to do more than smile and skin moose.

[Dan 'Hampton]

Another day in the books. Two parties blaming the other. Nothing is going to change.

[foodcourtdruide]

I'm interested to see how this goes, on one hand this is totally despicable. Hacking a personal email account and posting personal info is awful. What was the point of posting the pictures of her family? I can see how people may rally behind Palin as a victim.

On the other hand, what the fuck is Palin doing? Why does she have government emails on her private account? I can't help but be reminded of the insane secrecy of the Bush Administration, and I think American's are sick of it.

[KnoxHarrington]

I'm interested to see how this goes, on one hand this is totally despicable. Hacking a personal email account and posting personal info is awful. What was the point of posting the pictures of her family? I can see how people may rally behind Palin as a victim.

On the other hand, what the fuck is Palin doing? Why does she have government emails on her private account? I can't help but be reminded of the insane secrecy of the Bush Administration, and I think American's are sick of it.

This is exactly something the Bush Administration did, except they were smart enough to use secured RNC servers for their outside e-mail, not a fucking Yahoo account.

[celery]

I thought this was a joke when I first saw it. gov.palin@yahoo.com??? Seriously???? I bet the password was "Alaska".

[Jujubees2]

I thought this was a joke when I first saw it. gov.palin@yahoo.com??? Seriously???? I bet the password was "Alaska".

No, it was hockey mom.

[scottinnj]

And if you're going to be my girlfriend, you have to do more than smile and skin moose.



Fixed.

(sorry dude, couldn't resist

[scottinnj]

It'll be interesting how the Republicans spin this. They'll try to change the story on this from the fact that Palin is using a fucking Yahoo account to possibly conduct official state business outside the scrutiny public records usually get to a tale of how this brave woman is being victimized by far-leftists who hate her.


Bingo! That's what they're doing.

Front page of Drudge:

"Dirty Tricks: Palin Emails Hacked"

I wonder where G.Gordon Liddy was....


Anyway, there's some comedy in this:

It wasn't immediately clear how hackers broke into Palin's Yahoo! account, but it would have been possible to trick the service into revealing her password knowing personal details about Palin that include her birthdate and ZIP code. A hacker also might have sent a forged e-mail to her account tricking her into revealing her own password

I can see it now-Putin sends an email to vicepresident@whitehouse.gov masquerading as airforce1@airforce.mil and it says:

"Congratulations on your first day as Vice President of the United States. In order to complete your membership registration, please RE: to this email with your Secret Service nickname and 6 digit password issued to you to authenticate yourself to the nuclear football. Thank you for your service and God Bless America."

[MrPink]

Stanhope made a website to get Bristol Palin to have an abortion.

http://www.savingbristol.com/

[HBox]

Palin also criticized President Bush or Energy Secretary Samuel Bodman for recently traveling to Saudi Arabia to ask OPEC to increase oil production to help reduce skyrocketing U.S. gasoline prices.
The governor said she was "disappointed" by the actions, adding: "That's nonsense, when we have the domestic supplies here in America."

Link here. (http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5h21ZbzgPbTVRftcJPT5vkHkonY5QD938R8M00)

http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/5247/picardheadesktw0.jpg

[PapaBear]

I feel like we're all living in a wacky parody film about American politics.

[HBox]

I feel like we're all living in a wacky parody film about American politics.

That we live in a country that allows for the possibility that woman like that could become a Vice Presidential nominee doesn't just make me feel embarrassed for my country, not just embarrassed for my planet, not just embarrassed for my galaxy, but leaves me embarrassed for the universe itself. Her candidacy has made a mockery of existence.

[epo]

Palin takes questions at Michigan town-hall meeting, can't answer specific question (http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/17/campaign.wrap/index.html?eref=rss_topstories)

Republican vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin took questions with her running mate Wednesday night, offering at one point to play "stump the candidate" with a mostly friendly Michigan crowd.

Asked for "specific skills" she could cite to rebut critics who question her grasp of international affairs, she replied, "I am prepared."

"I have that confidence. I have that readiness," Palin said. "And if you want specifics with specific policies or countries, you can go ahead and ask me. You can play 'stump the candidate' if you want to. But we are ready to serve."

She really is the American Idol candidate.

[GreatAmericanZero]

That we live in a country that allows for the possibility that woman like that could become a Vice Presidential nominee doesn't just make me feel embarrassed for my country, not just embarrassed for my planet, not just embarrassed for my galaxy, but leaves me embarrassed for the universe itself. Her candidacy has made a mockery of existence.

even worse then her being a candidate is that millions of people think shes a good choice

[YourAmishDaddy]

I can see it now-Putin sends an email to vicepresident@whitehouse.gov masquerading as airforce1@airforce.mil and it says:

"Congratulations on your first day as Vice President of the United States. In order to complete your membership registration, please RE: to this email with your Secret Service nickname and 6 digit password issued to you to authenticate yourself to the nuclear football. Thank you for your service and God Bless America."

:lol:

[ChrisBrown]

I feel like we're all living in a wacky parody film about American politics.

I was thinking the same thing. I'm not being a partisan prick here either. Hell, I like McCain and respect his experience and qualifications. Sure, I disagree with him because I am a liberal but I would feel comfortable with him as president. But, Palin! Seriously, is this is a joke? Are the republicans going to come out and say, 'ha, we had you! you didn't really think we would have that unqualified, ignorant Alaskan as our VP nomination?' then they would bring out Powell, Lieberman, Shwartzeneger, hell, anyone but her and we would all laugh and down shots of vodka together. I never thought I could dislike a politician more than W but she does it for me. She has the ignorance, absolute certainty because of her religious belief, arrogance, cronyism, secrecy, etc. plus that godawful Fargo accent. There are tons of republicans who I like and would feel comfortable as VP but, seriously, Palin? Just about everything out of her mouth makes me want to gouge out my eardrums with a hot needle. I seriously don't think I could handle having her as our VP for eight years.

[KnoxHarrington]

A little follow up: how did the master hacker who got into Palin's email do it?

By researching some very basic information about her, then using it to reset her email password.

The hacker guessed that Alaska's governor had met her husband in high school, and knew Palin's date of birth and home Zip code. Using those details, the hacker tricked Yahoo Inc.'s service into assigning a new password, "popcorn," for Palin's e-mail account, according to a chronology of the crime published on the Web site where the hacking was first revealed.

And why this is an important story again? Let's review:

The break-in of Palin's private account is especially significant because Palin sometimes uses non-government e-mail to conduct state business. Previously disclosed e-mails indicate her administration embraced Yahoo accounts as an alternative to government e-mail, which could possibly be released to the public under Alaska's Open Records Act.

At the time, critics of Palin's administration were poring over official e-mails they had obtained from the governor's office looking for evidence of improper political activity.

So she is moving official state business to an email service that can be accessed with the most basic information.

And we're supposed to believe she's suitable to be President.

Un-fucking-believable.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080918/ap_on_el_pr/palin_hacked;_ylt=AsVQ5RsC9BXVzZtMU1_WW.Ss0NUE

[Furtherman]

So.... according to a caller on Monday... tomorrow we'll find out that Palin's son got his girlfriend knocked up?

I hope Ron calls that guy back.

[GreatAmericanZero]

this youtube video is so embarrassing

i love the youtube synopsis:

Your Daily Politics Video Blog: Fox News's Greta Van Susteren conducted the first interview of Todd Palin since his wife Sarah was named the Republican vice presidential nominee. She grilled Todd on everything from the story behind the name "First Dude" to how he feels about the name "First Dude."


<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/cpvPizuq4-Y&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/cpvPizuq4-Y&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[celery]

The hug between Palin and McCain at 2:25 is cringe-worthy.

this youtube video is so embarrassing

i love the youtube synopsis:

Your Daily Politics Video Blog: Fox News's Greta Van Susteren conducted the first interview of Todd Palin since his wife Sarah was named the Republican vice presidential nominee. She grilled Todd on everything from the story behind the name "First Dude" to how he feels about the name "First Dude."


<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/cpvPizuq4-Y&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/cpvPizuq4-Y&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[ChrisBrown]

So.... according to a caller on Monday... tomorrow we'll find out that Palin's son got his girlfriend knocked up?

I hope Ron calls that guy back.

Same here. The guy sure as hell sounded confident.

Ultimately, I don't give a rat's as what her son has done. Sure, it would be interesting in a tabloid kind of way if he had secretly fathered a family, cooked meth, or has been sacrificing virgins to Satan but it would be missing the point. Did anyone else in the country see that interview last week? That this woman could be so close to being president completely scares the shit out of me. She can see Russia from Alaska, Bush Doctrine, lack of coherent energy policy, etc. She is so clearly not ready for this level of leadership and it is such a cynical, short-sighted move choosing her as VP. I'm so fucking tired of petty partisan shit in this country. I seriously feel as though we are a bunch of children on the deck of the titanic arguing over a monopoly game. If you think only Democrats think we as a nation face serious challenges, go listen to T. Boone Pickens. Everyone who has an ounce more credibility than a tobacco industry 'scientist' acknowledges that we simply cannot go on consuming energy like we do now. Throw in complex issues like combating terrorism, health care, dealing with a rising China, etc and being president and VP now is a tough job. If there is any time that we need experience and true leadership, it's now.

[NewYorkDragons80]

this youtube video is so embarrassing

i love the youtube synopsis:

Your Daily Politics Video Blog: Fox News's Greta Van Susteren conducted the first interview of Todd Palin since his wife Sarah was named the Republican vice presidential nominee. She grilled Todd on everything from the story behind the name "First Dude" to how he feels about the name "First Dude."
The spouse interviews are supposed to be softballs. But he really needs to man up and go by "Second Gentlemen" when McCain gets elected.

[GreatAmericanZero]

The spouse interviews are supposed to be softballs. But he really needs to man up and go by "Second Gentlemen" when McCain gets elected.

i just think the news reporter made an ass out of herself. Ive never felt more embarrassed..especially with that guy having the personality of a scrotal cyst and being hyped up as a "DUDE!"

[NewYorkDragons80]

i just think the news reporter made an ass out of herself. Ive never felt more embarrassed..especially with that guy having the personality of a scrotal cyst and being hyped up as a "DUDE!"

Not a videogenic one in the least, and pointing out Greta van Susteren's faults always bothered me... It's just overkill. It's like joking about Robin Williams being hairy.

[GreatAmericanZero]

Not a videogenic one in the least, and pointing out Greta van Susteren's faults always bothered me... It's just overkill. It's like joking about Robin Williams being hairy.

i dont know thing one about her, im just reacting to this youtube video i saw.

I hate when anyone on any side can never admit a fault on their side. The guy is a stiff bore on the video. Anyone could see that. No one else gets the "hes not videogenic" excuse in any other aspect. Even athletes get their balls busted for being boring in interviews.

[scottinnj]

this youtube video is so embarrassing

i love the youtube synopsis:

Your Daily Politics Video Blog: Fox News's Greta Van Susteren conducted the first interview of Todd Palin since his wife Sarah was named the Republican vice presidential nominee. She grilled Todd on everything from the story behind the name "First Dude" to how he feels about the name "First Dude."


But....The Dude Abides!

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg164/glenjamin_photos/Dude.jpg

[thejives]

Chuck Hagel on Palin: "Insulting to the American people. (http://thinkprogress.org/2008/09/18/hagel-on-palin/)"

[NewYorkDragons80]

I hate when anyone on any side can never admit a fault on their side. The guy is a stiff bore on the video. Anyone could see that. No one else gets the "hes not videogenic" excuse in any other aspect. Even athletes get their balls busted for being boring in interviews.
I wasn't trying to defend him, but don't expect me to trash him to win your approval. The guy probably is boring, but on what "side" is that a fault? He's the husband of the chick running for VP, so nobody gains or loses from anything you or I say about him. I don't even see how calling him "not videogenic" was failing to point out a fault in the first place.

[angrymissy]

I have been away for a week and not following the news...

HE REALLY CALLS HIMSELF FIRST "DUDE"?

[thejives]

The guy probably is boring, but on what "side" is that a fault? He's the husband of the chick running for VP, so nobody gains or loses from anything you or I say about him.

Yes. We shouldn't demand any sort of coherency one of Sarah Palin's most trusted advisers (http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/09/14/america/14todd.php).

From the LA Times (http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-todd7-2008sep07,0,5840737.story):

Over the years, Todd Palin has drawn criticism for allegedly sitting in on the governor's news briefings in her Juneau office and receiving some of her e-mails dealing with official business.

He was subpoenaed (http://www.adn.com/palin/story/524038.html) to testify (but won't (http://blogs.usatoday.com/ondeadline/2008/09/palins-husband.html)) about the trooper-firing situation, and he played an active role in dealing with the Alaskan legislature on energy issues (http://dwb.adn.com/news/politics/story/8924080p-8824177c.html). He did this while working for BP, of course.

But forget all that. Don't pay attention to him.

If you style yourself as a "Bullmoosen" it's best to forget the principle TR founded that party on (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_Party_(United_States,_1912)):
"To destroy this invisible Government, to dissolve the unholy alliance between corrupt business and corrupt politics is the first task of the statesmanship of the day."

Shadowy adviser? No problem.
Quiet fella? Sure.
Ties to oil corporations you're claiming to take on? Forget about it.

Whatever you do, don't expect any kind of communication from that good ol' "first dude." Nobody gains or loses based on what we think of him.

[YourAmishDaddy]

What you have to understand is Sarah Palin, along with her husband the "first dude' are both religious fundamentalist zealots. Sarah Palin is governor, but she will completely follow the dogma that she first and foremost be subservient to her husband. He runs the show, completely. Unelected and unaccountable.

[epo]

Todd Palin is nutty but harmless. The governor though, is a scary chick. Here is a photo of her from her Wasilla council days:

http://bagnewsnotes.typepad.com/bagnews/images/Palin%20Con-Con-tm.jpg

Why is that scary? Check out the magazine on her desk.

That's a copy of The New American, the magazine of the John Birch Society. The headline the "Con Con Call" was about the need for a constitutional convention to re-do our constitution (http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0908/Whats_on_the_desk.html?showall).

I'll just let that sink in.

[thejives]

Well, whatever the case, it's clear this would be a Palin-McCain administration.

[epo]

Well, whatever the case, it's clear this would be a Palin-McCain administration.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/dysEy5O1dn4&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/dysEy5O1dn4&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

She agrees at 19 seconds.

[thejives]

I like how people are leaving after she speaks and letting McCain ramble on alone.

She's good at charging up the crazy republican McCain hating base.

[Friday]

I'll just let that sink in.

once i get past her frightening bangs, i will...

[epo]

Looks like Sarah Palin was conducting government business through a Yahoo! mail account and some hackers decided to go an hack the account, which they did with ease.

She is just not an intelligent person at all.

I removed the link because I scrolled further down at this website posted screen grabs of personal pics and a contact list with her husband's email and Bristol's cell phone number. If you are a creep you can go find the link yourself.

Hacker identified. (http://tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080918/NEWS02/80918081)

State Rep. Mike Kernell confirmed Thursday that his son, a University of Tennessee-Knoxville student, is at the center of heated Internet discussion into the hacking of the personal e-mail of vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin.

I still can't believe that the governor did business through a yahoo account and that she made her passwords that damned easy to hack.

[drucifer]

I still can't believe that the governor did business through a yahoo account and that she made her passwords that damned easy to hack.

Too easy, maybe.

[drucifer]

Stanhope made a website to get Bristol Palin to have an abortion.

http://www.savingbristol.com/

At last some response:

http://patdollard.com/2008/09/fcking-sob-offers-bristol-palin-50k-to-abort-her-baby-with-videos/

[A.J.]

Your Daily Politics Video Blog: Fox News's Greta Van Susteren conducted the first interview of Todd Palin since his wife Sarah was named the Republican vice presidential nominee. She grilled Todd on everything from the story behind the name "First Dude" to how he feels about the name "First Dude."

It's cooler than the unfunny "my Scottish friends think I should be called 'First Laddie' " line that Bill Clinton kept repeating during the primary season.

[epo]

It's cooler than the unfunny "my Scottish friends think I should be called 'First Laddie' " line that Bill Clinton kept repeating during the primary season.

Both terms of "First Dude" and "First Laddie" are completely lame. We're all a bit dumber for having heard the terms in public.

[hammersavage]

Both terms of "First Dude" and "First Laddie" are completely lame. We're all a bit dumber for having heard the terms in public.

I award you no points, and may god have mercy on your soul.

[SP1!]

Sarah Palin Is NOT The Mother [Photos+Video]

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/8/30/121350/137/486/580223

Very Interesting read
Its amazing that just a month later kos has tried to just wipe everything off their webpage like they never lied or misled to everyone, if that was on fox they would still be talking about how they tried to mislead the public.

Todd Palin is nutty but harmless. The governor though, is a scary chick. Here is a photo of her from her Wasilla council days:


Why is that scary? Check out the magazine on her desk.

That's a copy of The New American, the magazine of the John Birch Society. The headline the "Con Con Call" was about the need for a constitutional convention to re-do our constitution (http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0908/Whats_on_the_desk.html?showall).

I'll just let that sink in.

Yeah, that is an orginazation that has been trashed by people and Im still not sure why:

The John Birch Society is a political education and action organization founded by Robert W. Welch Jr. in Indianapolis, Indiana in 1958. Although the society does not endorse specific political candidates, it is frequently associated with traditionally conservative causes such as anti-communism, and support for individual rights and the ownership of private property. It promotes U.S. independence and sovereignty and opposes globalism, especially international regional groups such as the European Union or what the JBS claims is a proposed North American Union.

The Society is generally considered to be well on the right of the American political spectrum and has been described as "ultraconservative" on its own website. However, due to various changes in the personalities, tactics, and ideologies within the conservative movement, the Society has been greatly marginalized since the 1960s among mainstream conservatives.

Yeah more indiviuals rights and power back to the states, that would be a bad thing? How exactly?

Even more republicans hate them because they give too much power back instead of keeping it in their hands, personally I really hate both parties, democrats get more leeway on the hate because I always knew they were just trying to control the masses. Republicans used to be about individuals and helping only when needed, lately they have been just as bad as the dems of the 70s.

[NewYorkDragons80]

he played an active role in dealing with the Alaskan legislature on energy issues (http://dwb.adn.com/news/politics/story/8924080p-8824177c.html). He did this while working for BP, of course.

From your own source:
Until recently, he earned hourly wages as a production operator in a BP-run facility that separates oil from gas and water. Palin was making between $100,000 and $120,000 a year before he went on leave in December to make more time for his family and avoid potential conflicts of interest.

If you style yourself as a "Bullmoosen" it's best to forget the principle TR founded that party on (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_Party_(United_States,_1912)):
"To destroy this invisible Government, to dissolve the unholy alliance between corrupt business and corrupt politics is the first task of the statesmanship of the day."
Palin proposes $1200 energy relief to Alaskan residents (http://www.adn.com/front/story/442387.html) and Alaska Governor plays hardball with Big Oil (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20080304.IBALASKA04//TPStory/Business). Here are some highlights:
Ms. Palin threatened to evict Exxon Mobil Corp., the world's biggest oil company, and partners BP PLC, Chevron Corp. and ConocoPhillips Co. from a state-owned gas field, winning their promise to increase Alaska's natural gas output 17 per cent.
Conservative critics have attacked it as socialism, comparing Palin to Venezuela’s President Hugo Chavez.
Sound like a Square Deal to you?

[Zorro]

Quote:
Ms. Palin threatened to evict Exxon Mobil Corp., the world's biggest oil company, and partners BP PLC, Chevron Corp. and ConocoPhillips Co. from a state-owned gas field, winning their promise to increase Alaska's natural gas output 17 per cent.


I guess she's not all bad. Love it when politicians tell a corporation to fuck off.
I realize it's a different situation, but Bloomberg has given all sorts of tax breaks to multi-nationals with the supposed belief it keeps jobs here. When in reality all it does is increase everyone else's taxes, and the fucking companies move the jobs anyway.

[Ritalin]

once i get past her frightening bangs, i will...

And it's the same hair for the past 10 years.

Is she still wearing leg warmers, too?

(that doesn't even make sense, but I'm leaving it)

[scottinnj]

Todd Palin is nutty but harmless. The governor though, is a scary chick. Here is a photo of her from her Wasilla council days:

http://bagnewsnotes.typepad.com/bagnews/images/Palin%20Con-Con-tm.jpg

Why is that scary? Check out the magazine on her desk.

That's a copy of The New American, the magazine of the John Birch Society. The headline the "Con Con Call" was about the need for a constitutional convention to re-do our constitution (http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0908/Whats_on_the_desk.html?showall).

I'll just let that sink in.


The John Birch Society responds (http://www.jbs.org/index.php/jbs-news-feed/2995):


Does this show some type of connection between JBS and Palin? It does not connect her to The John Birch Society any more than a copy of the New York Times sitting on her desk would connect her to the New York Times Company. The photo is a symbol of the organized strength of a successful grassroots campaign to protect the U.S. Constitution from calls for a modern-day Constitutional Convention (con-con) that could potentially revise or completely rewrite the Constitution. The JBS printed thousands of that reprint for members to distribute to local, state and federal officials. Not only was this reprint widely distributed, but members also met face-to-face with as many of these folks as possible in order to help educate them as to what could happen if a con-con were called. Many officials had no idea of the potential for a runaway convention. This has happened only once in history when the Articles of Confederation were rewritten into the U.S. Constitution. That of course turned out to be a good thing, but another runaway convention at this time could turn out very differently and very badly.

So the JBS is saying the article was about stopping
constitutional conventions, not encouraging it.

[SP1!]

So the JBS is saying the article was about stopping
constitutional conventions, not encouraging it.

Dont let that get in their way of sensationalizing issues that dont mean a god damn thing.

Besides anyone that reads what the John Birch Society stands for and wouldnt really want that for themselves is a fucking idiot. Its for old type constitution, where the government stays away from the states and quits imposing their will on us, that does not mean that slavery(whoopi you moron) and other means of oppression will come back.

More freedom, more individual rights leads to communities taking care of their own, my great uncle used to tell of stories when he didnt have shit and people took him in because he was one of their own. People take more interest when they know their is not a federal institution that is forced to steal money from us to take care of the underprivileged badly.

[epo]

The John Birch Society responds (http://www.jbs.org/index.php/jbs-news-feed/2995):
:nono:
So the JBS is saying the article was about stopping
constitutional conventions, not encouraging it.

Dont let that get in their way of sensationalizing issues that dont mean a god damn thing.

Besides anyone that reads what the John Birch Society stands for and wouldnt really want that for themselves is a fucking idiot. Its for old type constitution, where the government stays away from the states and quits imposing their will on us, that does not mean that slavery(whoopi you moron) and other means of oppression will come back.

More freedom, more individual rights leads to communities taking care of their own, my great uncle used to tell of stories when he didnt have shit and people took him in because he was one of their own. People take more interest when they know their is not a federal institution that is forced to steal money from us to take care of the underprivileged badly.

The John Birch Society could clear this all up by publishing the article rather than just claiming anything they want.

Proof is always good.

[KnoxHarrington]

Palin has been caught in yet another lie. One of her many reasons for why Public Safety Commissioner Walt Monegan was fired, other than for not firing her sister-in-law's ex-husband, was that he made a trip to DC without authorization. In fact, the campaign has called this the "last straw" in a whole pattern of abuses of office by Monegan.

Guess what.

The document, a state travel authorization form, shows that Palin's chief of staff, Mike Nizich, approved Monegan's trip to Washington, D.C., "to attend meeting with Senator Murkowski." The date next to Nizich's signature reads June 18.

In response to inquiries about the document Friday, the McCain-Palin campaign provided a statement from Randy Ruaro, another aide to Palin.

According to Ruaro, Monegan asked for -- and received -- approval for the travel without telling Palin's staff his reason for going. "As a matter of routine, the travel was approved by Mike Nizich ... weeks before the actual purpose was made clear by former Commissioner Monegan," Ruaro wrote.

Umm, sure. You could have still stopped the trip, douche.

Par for the course from one of the most dishonest campaigns in American history.

http://www.abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=5844710

[thejives]

Sound like a Square Deal to you?

Oh yeah. Ms. Drill Baby Drill is going to stand up to Big Oil.

[scottinnj]

The John Birch Society could clear this all up by publishing the article rather than just claiming anything they want.

Proof is always good.

Yes, of course. But before going with the "ultra-conservative" approach, you lefties have the JBS as allies on two key issues:

1. They were against the invasion of Iraq, and want out as much as you and I do.

2. Totally against the patriot act.

But if the JBS is saying the "con con" article is about being against constitutional conventions, I believe them. I was in the Midwest at the time, and there were a lot of conservative groups rallying against these talks for conventions.

[thejives]

This cartoon got really funny when Palin came along.

<embed src="http://www.236.com/video/embed2.swf?videoID=1803923789&permalink=/d/?video=1803923789&width=425&height=364&embedCode=http://www.236.com/video/embed.php?v=1803923789&tags=Original+Video&urlPath=/d/?video=&translatorSwf=http://www.236.com/video/xml_translator.swf&xmlURL=http://iacas.adbureau.net/xtserver/site=236.com/aamsz=300x250video/area=video2/frmt=0/frmt=1/frmt=16/lnid=-1/ttID=1803923789/cue=post/cgm=0/RANDOM=0000000000&roll=post&policyFile=http://www.236.com/video/adPolicy.xml&title=+" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" name="flashObj" width="425" height="364" seamlesstabbing="false" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" swLiveConnect="true" allowFullScreen="true" pluginspage="http://www.macromedia.com/shockwave/download/index.cgi?P1_Prod_Version=ShockwaveFlash"></embed>

[mikeyboy]

This cartoon got really funny when Palin came along.

<embed src="http://www.236.com/video/embed2.swf?videoID=1803923789&permalink=/d/?video=1803923789&width=425&height=364&embedCode=http://www.236.com/video/embed.php?v=1803923789&tags=Original+Video&urlPath=/d/?video=&translatorSwf=http://www.236.com/video/xml_translator.swf&xmlURL=http://iacas.adbureau.net/xtserver/site=236.com/aamsz=300x250video/area=video2/frmt=0/frmt=1/frmt=16/lnid=-1/ttID=1803923789/cue=post/cgm=0/RANDOM=0000000000&roll=post&policyFile=http://www.236.com/video/adPolicy.xml&title=+" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" name="flashObj" width="425" height="364" seamlesstabbing="false" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" swLiveConnect="true" allowFullScreen="true" pluginspage="http://www.macromedia.com/shockwave/download/index.cgi?P1_Prod_Version=ShockwaveFlash"></embed>

That's pretty good.

[thejives]

That's pretty good.

You know that's going in their promotional materials.

"That's pretty good."
-Saint Mikeyboy of the Internet

Here's another one, because nobody should ever leave .net:

<embed src="http://www.236.com/video/embed2.swf?videoID=1791637350&permalink=/d/?video=1791637350&width=425&height=364&embedCode=http://www.236.com/video/embed.php?v=1791637350&tags=Original+Video&urlPath=/d/?video=&translatorSwf=http://www.236.com/video/xml_translator.swf&xmlURL=http://iacas.adbureau.net/xtserver/site=236.com/aamsz=300x250video/area=video2/frmt=0/frmt=1/frmt=16/lnid=-1/ttID=1791637350/cue=post/cgm=0/RANDOM=0000000000&roll=post&policyFile=http://www.236.com/video/adPolicy.xml&title=+" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" name="flashObj" width="425" height="364" seamlesstabbing="false" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" swLiveConnect="true" allowFullScreen="true" pluginspage="http://www.macromedia.com/shockwave/download/index.cgi?P1_Prod_Version=ShockwaveFlash"></embed>

[Recyclerz]

Palin proposes $1200 energy relief to Alaskan residents (http://www.adn.com/front/story/442387.html) and Alaska Governor plays hardball with Big Oil (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20080304.IBALASKA04//TPStory/Business). Here are some highlights:


Sound like a Square Deal to you?

Michael Kinsley breaks it down for us. Sarah Palin, despite the rhetoric of the stump speeches, is a Tax and Spend Li..., uh, Conservative.

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1839724,00.html

[epo]

Yes, of course. But before going with the "ultra-conservative" approach, you lefties have the JBS as allies on two key issues:

1. They were against the invasion of Iraq, and want out as much as you and I do.

2. Totally against the patriot act.

But if the JBS is saying the "con con" article is about being against constitutional conventions, I believe them. I was in the Midwest at the time, and there were a lot of conservative groups rallying against these talks for conventions.

Understand Scott....I have a bit of history with some JBS people. I lived for 5.5 years in Appleton, Wisconsin (home of the JBS) and while their people are nice, they are some of the most separatist, covertly racist people I've ever met. In my head I equate their agenda with that of the Alaska Independent Party people.

Hence my willingness to point the finger. I don't trust a word they say without proof.

[SP1!]

The John Birch Society could clear this all up by publishing the article rather than just claiming anything they want.

Proof is always good.

Google it, its out there and not that hard to find. The constitutional convention to redraw the constitution is mainly supported by leftists and socialists as a way to force in what they want since they will never get amendments passed in the houses.

Palin has been caught in yet another lie. One of her many reasons for why Public Safety Commissioner Walt Monegan was fired, other than for not firing her sister-in-law's ex-husband, was that he made a trip to DC without authorization. In fact, the campaign has called this the "last straw" in a whole pattern of abuses of office by Monegan.

Umm, sure. You could have still stopped the trip, douche.

Par for the course from one of the most dishonest campaigns in American history

Firing that guy is a non issue, he sounds like a douche and only got his trooper job because he was palins brother in law in the first place, focusing on this is not working for obama or his people it just makes them look like they are being petty to discredit her or make her look bad. All of this kind of shit is backfiring, just like all the celebs going out there and talking shit thinking people will listen to them, they are giving the election to mccain.

Understand Scott....I have a bit of history with some JBS people. I lived for 5.5 years in Appleton, Wisconsin (home of the JBS) and while their people are nice, they are some of the most separatist, covertly racist people I've ever met. In my head I equate their agenda with that of the Alaska Independent Party people.

Hence my willingness to point the finger. I don't trust a word they say without proof.

Separatist? No they aren't, they are for states rights and for individuals not to be forced to pay into social programs that may not even benefit their community. Do any of you even realize how much control the federal government has over you life? Covertly racist, that's an individual issue since most look at paying for blacks social programs is what hurts the country when in reality more whites are on those programs. I wouldn't call them racist, I would say that the ones I met hate all dregs on the country, white or black.

[scottinnj]

Understand Scott....I have a bit of history with some JBS people. I lived for 5.5 years in Appleton, Wisconsin (home of the JBS) and while their people are nice, they are some of the most separatist, covertly racist people I've ever met. In my head I equate their agenda with that of the Alaska Independent Party people.

Hence my willingness to point the finger. I don't trust a word they say without proof.


Agreed. I used to play in the woods with some of them on the weekends when I lived in Kansas. The covert part was a bit less when nobody but whitey was around. So I can understand your hesitation. They are more against all of this out of paranoia because of the "Turner Diaries" even though the leadership of the JBS laughs at the book-at least in public-they certainly don't turn down membership applications from those who have it memorized.

[scottinnj]

Separatist? No they aren't, they are for states rights and for individuals not to be forced to pay into social programs that may not even benefit their community. Do any of you even realize how much control the federal government has over you life? Covertly racist, that's an individual issue since most look at paying for blacks social programs is what hurts the country when in reality more whites are on those programs. I wouldn't call them racist, I would say that the ones I met hate all dregs on the country, white or black.



Go to Kansas and Missouri young man. A whole bunch of JBS supporters are racists and separatists-they take the "states rights" mantra to mean overturning the 13th Amendment (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitu tion) even though Kansas was a free territory. "Redleggers" is what we call those infiltrators from Missouri.

[SP1!]

Go to Kansas and Missouri young man. A whole bunch of JBS supporters are racists and separatists-they take the "states rights" mantra to mean overturning the 13th Amendment (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitu tion) even though Kansas was a free territory. "Redleggers" is what we call those infiltrators from Missouri.

Oh trust me I know about racism, states rights doesnt mean its going to come back to slavery though.

Most racists now exist in the mid west and there are more up around Boston and Philly than down here in Atlanta, its strange everyone talks about how backwards the south is about race but I saw more racism while working in Boston, Missouri, and Indiana.

[NewYorkDragons80]

Agreed. I used to play in the woods with some of them on the weekends when I lived in Kansas. The covert part was a bit less when nobody but whitey was around. So I can understand your hesitation. They are more against all of this out of paranoia because of the "Turner Diaries" even though the leadership of the JBS laughs at the book-at least in public-they certainly don't turn down membership applications from those who have it memorized.
But but but, what about Alan Keyes?

[epo]

25 days without a press conference!

You can't hide this dud!

[scottinnj]

But but but, what about Alan Keyes?




I love the guy, but he is wacky!

[scottinnj]

.....states rights doesnt mean its going to come back to slavery though.

I know that, you know that. But there are a lot of people who want to live in a state, make a "whites only" amendment to that state's constitution and have the federal government not only respect that, but help enforce it.

That's a bit of over-simplifying the answer, but if you've sat in some of the meetings I did during the mid-90s, you'd swear you were being set up by Janet Reno-the blatant talk of insurrection was so constant, I was looking for the ATF/FBI microphones.

[thejives]

You know what would solve all these problems.

A sit down.


And possibly a unity party.

[celery]

25 days without a press conference!

You can't hide this dud!

Oh, and now the McCain camp is trying to ban reporters from Palin's UN tour, and only allow photographers.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/jonathanmartin/0908/More_on_Palin_press_protection.html

It's just insane that people are jumping on Biden for a historical error, while Palin is giving the press NO access.

[landarch]

The better Palin:

www.michaelpalinforpresident.com

For all you Monty Python fans

[A.J.]

http://www.tshirthell.com/shirts/products/a1100/a1100_bm.gif

[Thebazile78]

The better Palin:

www.michaelpalinforpresident.com

For all you Monty Python fans

But he'd only qualify if there were a Minister of Silly Walks:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/SZGUQ3jma5Y&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/SZGUQ3jma5Y&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Wonder if he's finally made his walk truly silly ...

[thejives]

In case this hasn't been posted here yet ... the wolf torture ad:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/EQobIUE1zTU&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/EQobIUE1zTU&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[GreatAmericanZero]

In case this hasn't been posted here yet ... the wolf torture ad:



from what i gather in this ad (to be fair), I'm sure their is a serious over population of wolves in the area that is quite dangerous to the people of Alaska.....

However

How can you kill a wolf? You might as well kill a puppy!

[Sinestro]

In case this hasn't been posted here yet ... the wolf torture ad:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/EQobIUE1zTU&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/EQobIUE1zTU&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

WTF. Eskimoes got to eat right? You think that steak was born that way you see it on your plate? I think not.

[epo]

WTF. Eskimoes got to eat right? You think that steak was born that way you see it on your plate? I think not.

Earl, do we have any wolf steak back there?

[thejives]

Earl, do we have any wolf steak back there?

you mean helicopter-shot lead-filled wolf steak

[AnnoyedGrunt]

Honestly, I don't see the problem with hunting animals 'unfairly'. Sure, if you're going for the sport of it it's much more impressive to track a wolf down with a bow. But if these wolves are a big problem then why not use every available resource and act like the M-60 gunner in Full Metal Jacket?

[brettmojo]

Honestly, I don't see the problem with hunting animals 'unfairly'. Sure, if you're going for the sport of it it's much more impressive to track a wolf down with a bow. But if these wolves are a big problem then why not use every available resource and act like the M-60 gunner in Full Metal Jacket?
Yeah, they're such a big problem they've already been hunted to the brink of extinction once.

Build better fucking fences for the dumb cattle.

And sorry, I know that's not particular to the Alaskan situation.

[GreatAmericanZero]

so if you get $150 for a severed wolf leg, could you get $600 per wolf?

[thejives]

so if you get $150 for a severed wolf leg, could you get $600 per wolf?

What are you, some kind of eastern financial elitist?

[thejives]

I don't want people to think that I'm taking a side on the wolf thing, by the way. I just posted the video because it's powerful propaganda.

However, this preliminary reading (http://www.wildlifenews.alaska.gov/index.cfm?adfg=wolf.wolf_mgt), leads me to believe that there are better ways to control wolf populations. Some highlights.

A field team report:
Key points of consensus were:

1. The wolf population in Alaska is abundant and secure.
2. Wolves in Alaska are highly valued by people for many purposes
3. Wolves are capable of limiting the abundance or productivity of prey.
4. No single management regime can be applied across the state to accommodate all legitimate human values.
5. Some form of zonal management system offers the best chance to address conflicting values.

The team did not reach consensus on two critical issues:

1. Whether same-day-airborne hunting of wolves by the public should be allowed.
2. The circumstances under which wolf control by department personnel would be acceptable and how control should be implemented.

Non-lethal population control:
Beginning in November 1997 and extending to April 2001, the department sterilized the alpha males and females in wolf packs in the control area and moved subdominant wolves to other locations. The caribou population increased from 22,000 to 38,000 during this period. The degree to which the wolf control program contributed to the increase in caribou is still being evaluated.

But, again, I know next to nothing about this. I'm a vegetarian.

[GreatAmericanZero]

What are you, some kind of eastern financial elitist?

wow. you don't have to call me a jew

[angrymissy]

Couric: You've said, quote, "John McCain will reform the way Wall Street does business." Other than supporting stricter regulations of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac two years ago, can you give us any more example of his leading the charge for more oversight?

Palin: I think that the example that you just cited, with his warnings two years ago about Fannie and Freddie - that, that's paramount. That's more than a heck of a lot of other senators and representatives did for us.

Couric: But he's been in Congress for 26 years. He's been chairman of the powerful Commerce Committee. And he has almost always sided with less regulation, not more.

Palin: He's also known as the maverick though, taking shots from his own party, and certainly taking shots from the other party. Trying to get people to understand what he's been talking about - the need to reform government.

Couric: But can you give me any other concrete examples? Because I know you've said Barack Obama is a lot of talk and no action. Can you give me any other examples in his 26 years of John McCain truly taking a stand on this?

Palin: I can give you examples of things that John McCain has done, that has shown his foresight, his pragmatism, and his leadership abilities. And that is what America needs today.

Couric: I'm just going to ask you one more time - not to belabor the point. Specific examples in his 26 years of pushing for more regulation.

Palin: I'll try to find you some and I'll bring them to you.

:blink:

[brettmojo]

Couric: You've said, quote, "John McCain will reform the way Wall Street does business." Other than supporting stricter regulations of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac two years ago, can you give us any more example of his leading the charge for more oversight?

Palin: I think that the example that you just cited, with his warnings two years ago about Fannie and Freddie - that, that's paramount. That's more than a heck of a lot of other senators and representatives did for us.

Couric: But he's been in Congress for 26 years. He's been chairman of the powerful Commerce Committee. And he has almost always sided with less regulation, not more.

Palin: He's also known as the maverick though, taking shots from his own party, and certainly taking shots from the other party. Trying to get people to understand what he's been talking about - the need to reform government.

Couric: But can you give me any other concrete examples? Because I know you've said Barack Obama is a lot of talk and no action. Can you give me any other examples in his 26 years of John McCain truly taking a stand on this?

Palin: I can give you examples of things that John McCain has done, that has shown his foresight, his pragmatism, and his leadership abilities. And that is what America needs today.

Couric: I'm just going to ask you one more time - not to belabor the point. Specific examples in his 26 years of pushing for more regulation.

Palin: I'll try to find you some and I'll bring them to you.

:blink:
Are they sure that super collider didn't spit out this broad when it was turned on?

[GreatAmericanZero]

Couric: You've said, quote, "John McCain will reform the way Wall Street does business." Other than supporting stricter regulations of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac two years ago, can you give us any more example of his leading the charge for more oversight?

Palin: I think that the example that you just cited, with his warnings two years ago about Fannie and Freddie - that, that's paramount. That's more than a heck of a lot of other senators and representatives did for us.

Couric: But he's been in Congress for 26 years. He's been chairman of the powerful Commerce Committee. And he has almost always sided with less regulation, not more.

Palin: He's also known as the maverick though, taking shots from his own party, and certainly taking shots from the other party. Trying to get people to understand what he's been talking about - the need to reform government.

Couric: But can you give me any other concrete examples? Because I know you've said Barack Obama is a lot of talk and no action. Can you give me any other examples in his 26 years of John McCain truly taking a stand on this?

Palin: I can give you examples of things that John McCain has done, that has shown his foresight, his pragmatism, and his leadership abilities. And that is what America needs today.

Couric: I'm just going to ask you one more time - not to belabor the point. Specific examples in his 26 years of pushing for more regulation.

Palin: I'll try to find you some and I'll bring them to you.

:blink:

wow, i didnt know if it was possible but she sounds dumber in print

[Sinestro]

The media is just picking on her because she's a women. Shame in you Katie Couric.:nono:

[HBox]

Shame in you Katie Couric.:nono:

Is that what you call it?

[Sinestro]

Is that what you call it?

You making fun of my eccent you Ronfez.net elitist.:nono:

[thejives]

next to her, we're all elitists.

[KnoxHarrington]

Hey, if any of you motherfuckers were thinking of using witchcraft against Sarah Palin, don't bother, she's covered.

A grainy YouTube video surfaced Wednesday showing Sarah Palin being blessed in her hometown church three years ago by a Kenyan pastor who prayed for her protection from "witchcraft" as she prepared to seek higher office.

The video shows Palin standing before Bishop Thomas Muthee in the pulpit of the Wasilla Assembly of God church, holding her hands open as he asked Jesus Christ to keep her safe from "every form of witchcraft."

"Come on, talk to God about this woman. We declare, save her from Satan," Muthee said as two attendants placed their hands on Palin's shoulders. "Make her way my God. Bring finances her way even for the campaign in the name of Jesus. ... Use her to turn this nation the other way around."

Palin filed campaign papers a few months later, in October 2005, and was elected governor the next year.



So don't be pulling that shit on her, witches. Step off, demons. And Satan, you can fuck right off.

What a loon. I know hayseeds and hayseed religion, and this is crazy even by hayseed fundamentalism standards.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080925/ap_on_el_pr/palin_witchcraft_blessing;_ylt=Aq5yIEVQcdrBI88WN6Z vURKs0NUE

[ChrisBrown]

What a loon. I know hayseeds and hayseed religion, and this is crazy even by hayseed fundamentalism standards.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080925/ap_on_el_pr/palin_witchcraft_blessing;_ylt=Aq5yIEVQcdrBI88WN6Z vURKs0NUE


I couldn't agree more and I wish more people would realize this. I grew up in a hayseed religious household. I know the sickenly sweet guitar music homoerotically proclaiming love to 'Him', the mocking of other religions, hatred for gays, abortion, all of it. My family still believes and I have a great relationship with them. I don't hate evangelicals. This Palin brand of Protestantism, however, is really out there. All of the cleansing of evil spirits, exorcisms, and obsession with Harry Potter. All Americans need to go out and watch Jesus Camp. It is the same church.

[A.J.]

Earl, do we have any wolf steak back there?

epo's hungry like the wolf.

[celery]

I couldn't agree more and I wish more people would realize this. I grew up in a hayseed religious household. I know the sickenly sweet guitar music homoerotically proclaiming love to 'Him', the mocking of other religions, hatred for gays, abortion, all of it. My family still believes and I have a great relationship with them. I don't hate evangelicals. This Palin brand of Protestantism, however, is really out there. All of the cleansing of evil spirits, exorcisms, and obsession with Harry Potter. All Americans need to go out and watch Jesus Camp. It is the same church.

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[angrymissy]

I'd love to watch Jesus Camp but I don't think I could get through it, it makes me so angry to watch. I've seen the clips and it just pisses me off to the point where I'd probably break the TV.

[angrymissy]

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=4476721n

Painful to watch.

Katie Couric's face is classic during certain parts.

[HBox]

<embed src='http://www.cbs.com/thunder/swf30can10cbsnews/rcpHolderCbs-3-4x3.swf' FlashVars='link=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Ecbsnews%2Ecom%2 Fvideo%2Fwatch%2F%3Fid%3D4478156n&partner=cbssports&vert=News&autoPlayVid=false&releaseURL=http://release.theplatform.com/content.select?pid=hdkxamTi8l_uCAJ2ORKSzF3marEPn7U l&name=cbsPlayer&allowScriptAccess=always&wmode=transparent&embedded=y&scale=noscale&rv=n&salign=tl' allowFullScreen='true' width='425' height='324' type='application/x-shockwave-flash' pluginspage='http://www.macromedia.com/go/getflashplayer'></embed><br/><a href='http://www.cbs.com'>Watch CBS Videos Online</a>

She gets worse and worse and worse.

[Furtherman]

Oh goody. I can't wait to hear what my hard core righty friends will say to defend her.

Hardy Har Har.

[HBox]

I didn't think we could get a more ridiculous answer than "I can see Russia from my house!" out of her but "Putin's plane flies over my house!" is certainly that.

Way to go Sarah, making Katie Couric and Charlie Gibson look like fucking Kronkite.

[angrymissy]

Oh goody. I can't wait to hear what my hard core righty friends will say to defend her.

Hardy Har Har.

I can tell you what one of mine said:

She sounded very smart, but cautious, of course she had to be, because anything she says would be edited and twisted by the liberal media, so she had to be very careful with what she said.

:wallbash:

[Furtherman]

I can tell you what one of mine said:

She sounded very smart, but cautious, of course she had to be, because anything she says would be edited and twisted by the liberal media, so she had to be very careful with what she said.

:wallbash:

That will get a good laugh outta me, because everytime I ask for a specific example of the liberal media I get a dittohead answer that some right hack said, but, much like Palin, not one specific answer.

[angrymissy]

That will get a good laugh outta me, because everytime I ask for a specific example of the liberal media I get a dittohead answer that some right hack said, but, much like Palin, not one specific answer.

Oh you can give them this example: ABC and Couric edited an interview they did with McCain a few months ago. But they edited it to edit out a stupid comment he made so he wouldn't look dumb. THAT DAMN LIBERAL MEDIA!

[SP1!]

Shes not the only one looking stupid

http://jammiewearingfool.blogspot.com/2008/09/another-day-another-biden-gaffe.html

I dont care what any of them say cause I really dont trust either one but I distrust someone who had those horrible plugs more.

[SP1!]

That will get a good laugh outta me, because everytime I ask for a specific example of the liberal media I get a dittohead answer that some right hack said, but, much like Palin, not one specific answer.

Specific examples? Like asking if fox news is right leaning in their news coverage? Its the same thing, you cant find a specific example of fox being biased in their news coverage.

I think the whole world of media leans to the left, mainly because that sells,"those people are so under privileged, we should give them money to make ourselves feel better."

The world people want to believe in is supposed to be all puppies and rainbows, in the words of Ice-T: "Shit aint like that!!!!!"


And it never will be, so just quit fucking trying to guilt people into thinking that way, people help more on a local scale than they do when forced to give money to social programs.

[celery]

Specific examples? Like asking if fox news is right leaning in their news coverage? Its the same thing, you cant find a specific example of fox being biased in their news coverage.


How about this? Fox News takes the time out to bash the hell out of Al Gore, making that their lead story, while the most pivotal election in quite sometime is less than a month away and our economy is on the verge of the greatest disaster since the Great Depression.

This is just one example, and it happened yesterday.

http://i38.tinypic.com/2yov0nm.jpg

[GreatAmericanZero]

see this is the bullshit and both sides do this

When you align yourself with 1 side, you always see the other side as "getting too much" and everyone claims the media is biased the other side.

But its such bullshit.

For example, on O&A today Norton said something like "i dont understand how the media pounces on mccain for a verbal misstep but they ignored Obama's slip up saying hes a muslim". The media DIDN'T ignore it. You know how i know that? Cuz i've heard of it through the media

This Biden mistake is being reported in the media. I've heard it used as an example of the liberal media so many times..."they mention Palin looking like a retard with Couric but they don't report on this!" and they are showing a report. Both are being reported...both are there. Its just that on one media side they are saying "they aren't reporting on this! LIBERAL MEDIA"..meanwhile THEY ARE the media and they are reporting it

[foodcourtdruide]

Specific examples? Like asking if fox news is right leaning in their news coverage? Its the same thing, you cant find a specific example of fox being biased in their news coverage.



Like having Karl Rove, an advisor to the McCain campaign, as an one of their main analysts?

[SP1!]

How about this? Fox News takes the time out to bash the hell out of Al Gore, making that their lead story, while the most pivotal election in quite sometime is less than a month away and our economy is on the verge of the greatest disaster since the Great Depression.

This is just one example, and it happened yesterday.

http://i38.tinypic.com/2yov0nm.jpg

Ummmmmmmmm calling for civil disobedience to shut down coal plants? I would say that could be a top story and nice try but that is their rotating picture that changes throughout the day.

To say foxnews is obviously biased is the same as the people who say all other media outlets are liberul, its shit to make everyone feel better.

[SP1!]

see this is the bullshit and both sides do this

When you align yourself with 1 side, you always see the other side as "getting too much" and everyone claims the media is biased the other side.

But its such bullshit.

For example, on O&A today Norton said something like "i dont understand how the media pounces on mccain for a verbal misstep but they ignored Obama's slip up saying hes a muslim". The media DIDN'T ignore it. You know how i know that? Cuz i've heard of it through the media

This Biden mistake is being reported in the media. I've heard it used as an example of the liberal media so many times..."they mention Palin looking like a retard with Couric but they don't report on this!" and they are showing a report. Both are being reported...both are there. Its just that on one media side they are saying "they aren't reporting on this! LIBERAL MEDIA"..meanwhile THEY ARE the media and they are reporting it

Oh I dont align myself with one side too much, I consider myself conservative financially but liberal every other way but I just cant vote for these people. I could see how people feel that way since the media harps on one and not the other, sometimes it does seem they dont move on from a misstep but I blame that more on other news not burying it rather than taking sides, most of the time.

Like having Karl Rove, an advisor to the McCain campaign, as an one of their main analysts?

That is someone giving an opinion of how something is going, they pick people from the respective parties for that, that is not reporting of the news.

[Furtherman]

Ummmmmmmmm calling for civil disobedience to shut down coal plants? I would say that could be a top story and nice try but that is their rotating picture that changes throughout the day.

The "civil" in civil disobedience isn't a noun, it's an adjective. He's not telling people to disobey the law. He's telling them to protest peacefully. It's already been taken out of context.

[GreatAmericanZero]

Oh I dont align myself with one side too much, I consider myself conservative financially but liberal every other way but I just cant vote for these people. I could see how people feel that way since the media harps on one and not the other, sometimes it does seem they dont move on from a misstep but I blame that more on other news not burying it rather than taking sides, most of the time.


.

i just hate it when you hear someone like "the media always focuses on this example of this candidates fuck up, but they ignore this candidates fuck up" but the fact that someone in the media is pointing out the other candidates fuck up is putting it in the media. None of them are personal friends of the candidates, its all media...every article and radio show, its all the media

[celery]

Ummmmmmmmm calling for civil disobedience to shut down coal plants? I would say that could be a top story and nice try but that is their rotating picture that changes throughout the day.



What does this have to do with anything? It's not a random rotating banner ad. They control the content and can put whatever they want there, whenever they want. The headlines change throughout the day, too. They were featuring this story intentionally.

[epo]

I didn't think we could get a more ridiculous answer than "I can see Russia from my house!" out of her but "Putin's plane flies over my house!" is certainly that.

Way to go Sarah, making Katie Couric and Charlie Gibson look like fucking Kronkite.

I'm honestly shocked that she is this bad. Jesus Christ....she's gone 27 days without a real press conference, delivering 1 basic stump speech and this the best she can do?

What the fuck?

[celery]

Shes not the only one looking stupid

http://jammiewearingfool.blogspot.com/2008/09/another-day-another-biden-gaffe.html

I dont care what any of them say cause I really dont trust either one but I distrust someone who had those horrible plugs more.

Great, the future of our country is now based primarily on the candidates' personal grooming/cosmetic histories.

Oh, by the way - EXCLUSIVE: John McCain Uses Idol Makeup Artist! (http://www.usmagazine.com/news/john-mccain-uses-american-idol-makeup-artist)

[SatCam]

http://www.usmagazine.com/files/john-mccain-b.jpg

hes jacking off under the table

[HBox]

http://www.boingboing.net/images/x_2008/putinrearshishead.jpg

[epo]

From today's Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/25/AR2008092503988.html?hpid=topnews), apparently Governor Palin likes free stuff:

Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, who has made a crackdown on gift-giving to state officials a centerpiece of her ethics reform agenda, has accepted gifts valued at $25,367 from industry executives, municipalities and a cultural center whose board includes officials from some of the largest mining interests in the state, a review of state records shows.

The 41 gifts Palin accepted during her 20 months as governor include honorific tributes, expensive artwork and free travel for a family member. They also include more than $2,500 in personal items from Calista, a large Alaska native corporation with a variety of pending state regulatory and budgetary issues, and a gold-nugget pin valued at $1,200 from the city of Nome, which lobbies on municipal, local and capital budget matters, documents show.

I read that and thought....so? Then the doozy!

Records show that 23 of the gifts were offered during Palin's early months in office, when she was pushing the legislature to address a state corruption scandal by passing a package of ethics reforms. She accepted 18 gifts after the law passed in July 2007. Among other provisions, the law forbade executive branch officials from taking gifts from lobbyists or from interests with pending state business.

So she passed reform, because she's a reformer to stop the gifts....cool. But then she herself broke the rule. That's a helluva 20 months in Alaska.

Honestly, I thought Palin would be an interesting choice when I had a rough sketch of her at first, but she's turned out to be a dumber version of Bush in a skirt.

[Furtherman]

Oh goody. I can't wait to hear what my hard core righty friends will say to defend her.

I can tell you what one of mine said:
She sounded very smart, but cautious, of course she had to be, because anything she says would be edited and twisted by the liberal media, so she had to be very careful with what she said.

Unbelieveable... "edited" and "twisted" were used in a response I heard last night. "Careful" too. I swear they must get a transcript of Limbaugh's show every morning to study their answers.

[TheMojoPin]

Are conservative pundits turning on Palin? (http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=MDZiMDhjYTU1NmI5Y2MwZjg2MWNiMWMyYTUxZDkwNTE=)

Palin didn’t make a mess cracking the glass ceiling. She simply glided through it.

It was fun while it lasted.

Palin’s recent interviews with Charles Gibson, Sean Hannity, and now Katie Couric have all revealed an attractive, earnest, confident candidate. Who Is Clearly Out Of Her League.

No one hates saying that more than I do. Like so many women, I’ve been pulling for Palin, wishing her the best, hoping she will perform brilliantly. I’ve also noticed that I watch her interviews with the held breath of an anxious parent, my finger poised over the mute button in case it gets too painful. Unfortunately, it often does. My cringe reflex is exhausted.

Palin filibusters. She repeats words, filling space with deadwood. Cut the verbiage and there’s not much content there. Here’s but one example of many from her interview with Hannity: “Well, there is a danger in allowing some obsessive partisanship to get into the issue that we’re talking about today. And that’s something that John McCain, too, his track record, proving that he can work both sides of the aisle, he can surpass the partisanship that must be surpassed to deal with an issue like this.”

When Couric pointed to polls showing that the financial crisis had boosted Obama’s numbers, Palin blustered wordily: “I’m not looking at poll numbers. What I think Americans at the end of the day are going to be able to go back and look at track records and see who’s more apt to be talking about solutions and wishing for and hoping for solutions for some opportunity to change, and who’s actually done it?”

If BS were currency, Palin could bail out Wall Street herself.

If Palin were a man, we’d all be guffawing, just as we do every time Joe Biden tickles the back of his throat with his toes. But because she’s a woman — and the first ever on a Republican presidential ticket — we are reluctant to say what is painfully true.

[ChrisBrown]

I think Palin could be the catalyst that cracks the GOP in two. The rabid christian right segment of the party will continue to support her but the fiscally responsible, more secular, more libertarian part of the party will revolt. You can see the start of the Palin backlash in some of the conservative pundits writing about how idiotic she sounds on t.v. I used to be a Republican until it got hijacked by W and his Texan Christians. I always thought evangelicals would kill the party and I think this is the start.

[scottinnj]

I think Palin could be the catalyst that cracks the GOP in two. The rabid christian right segment of the party will continue to support her but the fiscally responsible, more secular, more libertarian part of the party will revolt. You can see the start of the Palin backlash in some of the conservative pundits writing about how idiotic she sounds on t.v. I used to be a Republican until it got hijacked by W and his Texan Christians. I always thought evangelicals would kill the party and I think this is the start.

It's almost a repeat of 1992-although there is no third party candidate. Bush 41 angered the GOP so badly, at least 10% of us went Perot.

I see the same thing happening here, with a bunch of us voting Obama or going with Bob Barr with the Libertarians. I even know people who are going to still vote for Ron Paul.

[scottinnj]

http://www.boingboing.net/images/x_2008/putinrearshishead.jpg

He's gonna kill all the moose! Commie Moose Killer! The moose are American moose, and must be shot and killed by Americans, for Americans!

[TheMojoPin]

HOT DOG!!! If she becomes prez and there's ever a swimsuit competition, well...we'd lose. (http://waxy.org/2008/09/sarah_palin_1984_miss_alaska_pageant_video_swimsui t_competition/)

Anyone up for some cottage cheese in a trash bag?

[scottinnj]

HOT DOG!!! If she becomes prez and there's ever a swimsuit competition, well...we'd lose. (http://waxy.org/2008/09/sarah_palin_1984_miss_alaska_pageant_video_swimsui t_competition/)

Anyone up for some cottage cheese in a trash bag?

What What? In the Butt!

[TheMojoPin]

I like the creepy sad jazz music they have as stage music.

Is Frank Sinatra backstage shooting up some smack?

[A.J.]

HOT DOG!!! If she becomes prez and there's ever a swimsuit competition, well...we'd lose. (http://waxy.org/2008/09/sarah_palin_1984_miss_alaska_pageant_video_swimsui t_competition/)

Anyone up for some cottage cheese in a trash bag?

Ah the 80s...when it was OK to have some meat on the bones and real tits.

[scottinnj]

Ah the 80s...when it was OK to have some meat on the bones and real tits.

Yep, from the back she looks a bit like Christy Canyon. Boing!

[TheMojoPin]

Ah the 80s...when it was OK to have some meat on the bones and real tits.

Meat is one thing...she had Hamburger Helper.

[thejives]

So... who do you think her debate sparring partner is?

[brettmojo]

So... who do you think her debate sparring partner is?
http://z.about.com/d/animatedtv/1/7/l/A/ralphnose.jpg

[thejives]

http://z.about.com/d/animatedtv/1/7/l/A/ralphnose.jpg

ruthlessly funny

[Recyclerz]

Just some internet bloviating made interesting because of the forum

http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2008/09/26/t-minus-six-days/


This debate, assuming it happens, looks like must-see cringe TV.

[scottinnj]

Just some internet bloviating made interesting because of the forum

http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2008/09/26/t-minus-six-days/


This debate, assuming it happens, looks like must-see cringe TV.

So much for the "liberal media" pounding McCain.


If he dropped her now, or if she resigned for whatever reason, the combination of media triumphalism (the narrative would be, “so much for experience and judgement!”), liberal Schadenfreude and conservative despair would be so great that McCain wouldn’t stand a chance. Even though his result is now more likely to end up resembling Dole’s rather than, say, a respectable Ford-like defeat, he will have to trudge on and accept whatever happens.


That is from a conservative. And I've seen TONS of articles from conservatives just bashing McCain on this pick, and the way he is running the campaign in general.