The Juneau Juno (The Sarah Palin Thread)

[Jujubees2]

Did anyone else hear the shout out she gave to her oldest son's nanny in the video?

Yeah, all hockey moms have nannies.

[epo]

I believe in Fred Thompson's speech, he said something like "We all know people called John McCain a troublemaker at the naval academy, but he was actually the LEADER of the troublemakers" to raucous applause.

So yeah, they want to basically elect the dumb jock. The leader of the dicks. Great.

Well....McCain did graduate 3rd from the bottom of his graduating class at the Naval Academy. If the shoe fits..............

USA! USA! USA!

[angrymissy]

Well....McCain did graduate 3rd from the bottom of his graduating class at the Naval Academy. If the shoe fits..............

USA! USA! USA!

I don't know if you were aware of this, but he was a POW.

[epo]

I don't know if you were aware of this, but he was a POW.

Wow. What a revelation.

If only he would attempt to make some political hay with that. It could be a shelter for every stupid thing he does.

Brilliant!

[A.J.]

It's scary. It seriously scares me. I don't want to be in a country where extreme religious beliefs are legislated. For the way they rail against Muslim countries, we're headed down the same path...

I have tried to warn you people!

[NewYorkDragons80]

Are you posting from the Log Cabin?
I first came out (http://ronfez.net/forums/showthread.php?t=68581&goto=nextnewest) earlier this year. It's also worth mentioning that Desperate Housewives creator Marc Cherry is a log cabin republican.

[JerseySean]

Wow. What a revelation.

If only he would attempt to make some political hay with that. It could be a shelter for every stupid thing he does.

Brilliant!

Yes it doesnt compare to community organizer. How could it.

[epo]

Yes it doesnt compare to community organizer. How could it.

From David Plouffe, Obama’s campaign manager about the community organizer bashing last night:

“Community organizing is how ordinary people respond to out-of-touch politicians and their failed policies.”

I stated it last night and I'll state it again: it's a bad move for republicans to take this road. It will backfire.

[JerseySean]

From David Plouffe, Obama’s campaign manager about the community organizer bashing last night:



I stated it last night and I'll state it again: it's a bad move for republicans to take this road. It will backfire.

How will it backfire?

[angrymissy]

From David Plouffe, Obama’s campaign manager about the community organizer bashing last night:

I stated it last night and I'll state it again: it's a bad move for republicans to take this road. It will backfire.

Someone I work with who was on the fence is voting Obama due to the speech. She thought it was "childish" and went too much on the attack. Hah - she called me because she knows how into the race I am.

[JerseySean]

From David Plouffe, Obama’s campaign manager about the community organizer bashing last night:



I stated it last night and I'll state it again: it's a bad move for republicans to take this road. It will backfire.

Oh I know, because these people were voting a lot for McCain before right? And the cities they are in have a lot of independant voters. Community organizer is a liberal, "social justice" term and a ghetto term.

Community Organizer - Jersey City NJ
Statewide Education Organizing Committee of NJ (SEOC) (Jersey City, NJ)
...1.Outreach (visit schools, phone calls, door knocking, and one-on-one meetings) to recrui parent leaders, members, and potential members into our Jersey City Chapter. Outreach takes place on a daily basis, typically in afternoons and evenings and often weekends. PCUE-SEOC includes parents,...
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Idealist (07/17/08)

Community Organizer
Stand for Children (Portland, OR)
...of Organization and Position: Stand for Children is an effective grassroots lobby for Oregon children, with 11 Chapters and 2000 members across the state. Since 1999, Stand for Children Chapters in Oregon have won 51 victories that have helped over 1 million children by securing more than...
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Idealist (07/31/08)

Community Organizer
The Northeast Ohio Alliance for Hope (NOAH) (Cleveland, OH)
...The Northeast Ohio Alliance for Hope (NOAH) is seeking a community organizer to work in the East Cleveland community. Organizers will coordinate grassroots issue campaigns and projects, identify and develop leaders, and bring together a broad base of institutions and residents to work...
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Idealist (07/31/08)

Community Organizer
Long Island Immigrant Alliance (LIIA) (Amityville, NY)
...Community Organizer Full time salaried position LIIA is looking for an experienced community organizer to manage its immigrant advocacy, education, and community engagement and organizing campaigns in accordance with the strategic goals and initiatives set forth by its Board and members....
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Idealist (07/31/08)

Community Organizer
American Civil Liberties Union (New York, NY)
...* Collaborate with other departments to develop strategic initiatives related to local, statewide and national political and legislative action * Deploy existing ACLU members, along with new members, as advocates for civil liberties * Provide guidance and support for local activist groups...
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Idealist (07/31/08)

Community Organizer - Central PA
American Civil Liberties Union of Pennsylvania (Harrisburg, PA)
...The Community Organizer will be expected to perform the following duties: * Design and implement grassroots strategies to mobilize ACLU-PA members and supporters to take meaningful action on ACLU's local, state and national civil liberties agenda; * Plan and implement community education...
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Idealist (08/05/08)

Community Organizer
Clean Water Action of Pennsylvania (Pittsburgh, PA)
...* Organize community-based campaigns for clean air and clean water, helping residents address pollution problems that threaten their health. * Work on local and state campaigns to protect drinking water quality, mobilizing the public to demand strong standards and to protect sources of our...
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Idealist (08/07/08)

Community Organizer
Orange County Congregation Community Organization (Anaheim, CA)
...* Provide training to congregation and community members in the principles and concepts of congregation-based community organizing * Conduct one-to-one visits with grassroots community members and influential, external leaders on a consistent and regular basis * Assist grassroots leadership...
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Idealist (08/07/08)

Community Organizer
Movement for Justice in El Barrio / Movimiento por Justicia… (New York, NY)
...? -Recruit community members' to join our organization and take leadership in organizational campaigns and activities. -Identify potential leaders and assist in developing the leadership of grassroots members. - Develop and implement campaign strategies with member leaders - Do research,...
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Idealist (08/13/08)

Community Organizer
Pacific Institute for Studies in Development, Environment… (Oakland, CA)
...1. Report to the Co-Directors 2. Conduct outreach and education to West Oakland residents on air quality and land-use issues, using door-to-door direct contact and presentations to community and faith-base organizations. 3. Build EIP membership using person-to-person relationship-building,...

[angrymissy]

Oh I know, because these people were voting a lot for McCain before right? And the cities they are in have a lot of independant voters. Community organizer is a liberal, "social justice" term and a ghetto term.

A "ghetto" term? :blink:

[epo]

Community organizer is a liberal, "social justice" term and a ghetto term.

You've definitely earned this:

http://annarborsummerfestival.org/media/hires/ani_difranco2.jpg

[JerseySean]

A "ghetto" term? :blink:

Yes, terms used in ghettos.:clap: Thats what you get

[epo]

How will it backfire?

You know I couldn't put my finger on how to frame this "community organizer" bashing backfiring. I come home, read Andrew Sullivan and damn if he didn't nail it:

“Jesus was a Community Organizer, and Pontias Pilate was a Governor.”

Sure it won't be framed exactly like that....but keep giving Axelrod & Plouffe ammo. I DARE you.

[JerseySean]

You know I couldn't put my finger on how to frame this "community organizer" bashing backfiring. I come home, read Andrew Sullivan and damn if he didn't nail it:



Sure it won't be framed exactly like that....but keep giving Axelrod & Plouffe ammo. I DARE you.

Trust me, community organizer will not backfire with independant voters. Trust me.

[epo]

Trust me, community organizer will not backfire with independant voters. Trust me.

Let's ask Scottinnj. I would classify him as a right-leaning independent.

[KnoxHarrington]

"Troopergate" continues to heat up: the head of Alaska's police union says that Palin improperly peeked into confidential personnel files of the trooper she wanted fired.

In the February 29 call by Frank Bailey, Palin's boards and commissions director, to state police Lt. Rodney Dial, Bailey complained there had been "absolutely no action for a year on this issue." During the call, he said there was some "really funny business" about a worker's compensation claim [Trooper Mike] Wooten [Palin's sister's ex-husband] had filed and suggested he lied about a health condition on his state police job application.

"That's extraordinary for them to reference that," Cyr said. Police application files contain results of background checks and reference letters, "and those are sealed. Even Trooper Wooten doesn't have access to those."

And during the February conversation, Dial questioned how Bailey had obtained information that was "extremely confidential."

"I'm trying to find out how it was determined by anybody that he had indicated something on his application that later was found to be not true," he said.

Bailey replied, "I'm a little bit reluctant to say." But he added, "Over in admin is where, you know, we hold workers' comp right in there."

After eight years of a President who thinks the Constitution is a "god-damn piece of paper" and that executive priviledge should be completely unchecked, I don't trust someone so willing to trample the rule of law to settle a personal score.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/04/palin.investigation/index.html?eref=rss_latest

[scottinnj]

Let's ask Scottinnj. I would classify him as a right-leaning independent.

Backfired with me.

"white people are so scared.....of Community Oraganizers!"

[epo]

Backfired with me.

"white people are so scared.....of Community Oraganizers!"

Hopefully my classification was correct!

[scottinnj]

"Community Organizers" in the minds of most Americans (who vote):

http://www.moonbattery.com/archives/68-chicago-democratic-national-convention.jpg


I told epo this, and I'll say it again. When the GOP first started using this to describe Obama, the above image flashed in my head, and my conscience yelled "Code Word Alert! Code Word Alert!"

[brettmojo]

"Community Organizers" in the minds of most Americans (who vote):

http://www.moonbattery.com/archives/68-chicago-democratic-national-convention.jpg


I told epo this, and I'll say it again. When the GOP first started using this to describe Obama, the above image flashed in my head, and my conscience yelled "Code Word Alert! Code Word Alert!"
???

[HBox]

???

WHEN THEY SAY COMMUNITY ORGANIZERS THEY MEANS NEGROS.

[scottinnj]

WHEN THEY SAY COMMUNITY ORGANIZERS THEY MEANS NEGROS.

THANK YOU! I AM SO GLAD I AM NOT THE ONLY ONE WHO SEES THIS! I THOUGHT I WAS GOING CRAZY! WHICH EXPLAINS MY ALL CAPS POST!

[scottinnj]

*catching breath* Okay, now that I got that out, JerseySean is right, that this will not backfire on the GOP-unless the use of "Community Organizer" is voriciously attacked by the Obama campaign.

[ChrisTheCop]

"Troopergate" continues to heat up: the head of Alaska's police union says that Palin improperly peeked into confidential personnel files of the trooper she wanted fired.



After eight years of a President who thinks the Constitution is a "god-damn piece of paper" and that executive priviledge should be completely unchecked, I don't trust someone so willing to trample the rule of law to settle a personal score.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/04/palin.investigation/index.html?eref=rss_latest

Although the above is speculation, I appreciate you bringing up something that matters. Why arent the dems on this board, and out in the real world, focusing on a TRUE SCANDAL instead of making up new ones doomed to failure?

"Community Organizers" in the minds of most Americans (who vote):

http://www.moonbattery.com/archives/68-chicago-democratic-national-convention.jpg


I told epo this, and I'll say it again. When the GOP first started using this to describe Obama, the above image flashed in my head, and my conscience yelled "Code Word Alert! Code Word Alert!"

???

WHEN THEY SAY COMMUNITY ORGANIZERS THEY MEANS NEGROS.

I dont see a single black person in that photo. Second look, there may be one waaaay in the back?
And I thought it was Obama himself who called himself a one time community organizer.
Is he calling himself a negro?? I'm confused. Again.

[TheMojoPin]

Although the above is speculation, I appreciate you bringing up something that matters. Why arent the dems on this board, and out in the real world, focusing on a TRUE SCANDAL instead of making up new ones doomed to failure?

Like what?

[HBox]

I dont see a single black person in that photo. Second look, there may be one waaaay in the back?
And I thought it was Obama himself who called himself a one time community organizer.
Is he calling himself a negro?? I'm confused. Again.

I don't necessarily agree with that I was just pointing out what Scott meant. The thought process behind it being that the term community organizers is associated with urban areas and problems in those areas and the people mainly in those areas. It's very subtle and I don't think that's what Rudy was going for. He was just begin an incredible dick.

This is a theory I've heard elsewhere so this isn't out of the blue.

[ChrisTheCop]

I don't necessarily agree with that I was just pointing out what Scott meant. The thought process behind it being that the term community organizers is associated with urban areas and problems in those areas and the people mainly in those areas. It's very subtle and I don't think that's what Rudy was going for. He was just begin an incredible dick.

This is a theory I've heard elsewhere so this isn't out of the blue.

Ok, I'll admit I'm behind on my racial slurs (dont let my job know!!),
but I hadnt heard that one..besides, in the mean time I read ObamasResume.org, and from 1984-1985 he does indeed list himself as a Community Organizer/ Is this one of those instances where "they"can use it, but "we" cant?

Dont get me wrong, when I heard Rudy and Sarah saying it, I was confused as to why it would be a bad thing, just as I'm confused as to why being mayor of a small town and Governor for only 2 years is such a bad thing.

[JerseySean]

Ok, I'll admit I'm behind on my racial slurs (dont let my job know!!),
but I hadnt heard that one..besides, in the mean time I read ObamasResume.org, and from 1984-1985 he does indeed list himself as a Community Organizer/ Is this one of those instances where "they"can use it, but "we" cant?

Dont get me wrong, when I heard Rudy and Sarah saying it, I was confused as to why it would be a bad thing, just as I'm confused as to why being mayor of a small town and Governor for only 2 years is such a bad thing.

Thats funny, he did his undergrad at the same place as Luke Wilson, lonelygirl15 and Ben Affleck

[HBox]

Ok, I'll admit I'm behind on my racial slurs (dont let my job know!!),
but I hadnt heard that one..besides, in the mean time I read ObamasResume.org, and from 1984-1985 he does indeed list himself as a Community Organizer/ Is this one of those instances where "they"can use it, but "we" cant?

Dont get me wrong, when I heard Rudy and Sarah saying it, I was confused as to why it would be a bad thing, just as I'm confused as to why being mayor of a small town and Governor for only 2 years is such a bad thing.

It's not a slur. it was just the dismissive, condescending way he said it would evoke certain thoughts about black people and the inner city. No a slur, just a subtle way of bringing up racial tensions. I don't agree with that but there are people who believe that.

And being Mayor and being a community organizer are both minor things on a Presidential resume. Republicans tried to play it up more than Obama is. The difference is that Obama did organizing for 3 years before law school and being Mayor is 8 of Palin's 9 and a half years in government. Equating the 2 allowed the Republicans gloss over Obama's state senate stint.

[angrymissy]

Thats funny, he did his undergrad at the same place as Luke Wilson, lonelygirl15 and Ben Affleck

Columbia or Occidental? Neither are easy to get into.

[Dudeman]

Thats funny, he did his undergrad at the same place as Luke Wilson, lonelygirl15 and Ben Affleck

From wikipedia, some of the notable people who attended Columbia: "Presidents of the United States, the Roosevelts, had attended Columbia (neither finished).[124] Six Justices of the Supreme Court of the United States and 39 Nobel Prize winners have obtained degrees from Columbia. Today, three United States Senators and 16 current Chief Executives of Fortune 500 companies hold Columbia degrees, as do three of the 25 richest Americans."

And with regards to his law school, "Fourteen of the school's graduates have served on the Supreme Court of the United States, more than any other law school, and another four justices attended the school without graduating."

Palin went to Hawaii Pacific, North idaho College and the University of Idaho.

You've made alot of f%^&*ed up arguements, but ragging on Obama's education has to be the worst:wallbash::wacko::lol::surrender::blink::help :

[yojimbo7248]

From wikipedia, some of the notable people who attended Columbia: "Presidents of the United States, the Roosevelts, had attended Columbia (neither finished).[124] Six Justices of the Supreme Court of the United States and 39 Nobel Prize winners have obtained degrees from Columbia. Today, three United States Senators and 16 current Chief Executives of Fortune 500 companies hold Columbia degrees, as do three of the 25 richest Americans."

And with regards to his law school, "Fourteen of the school's graduates have served on the Supreme Court of the United States, more than any other law school, and another four justices attended the school without graduating."

Palin went to Hawaii Pacific, North idaho College and the University of Idaho.

You've made alot of f%^&*ed up arguements, but ragging on Obama's education has to be the worst:wallbash::wacko::lol::surrender::blink::help :

Seriously, ragging on the quality of his education doesn't even make sense. If I was an Obama-hating Republican or Hillary supporter, I would be making the opposite argument. I'll help you out. Say: "Obama thinks he is better than all of you red-meating-eating, traditional-values, average Americans because he went to these elitist schools which think they are so great that they won't allow in your average American C student. In fact, both Occidental and Columbia allow in lots of foreign students just because they scored well on tests and read too much in high school. Sarah Palin, on the other hand, understands that being book smart isn't everything. We Republicans might not have the fancy degrees of Hussein O but we know that faith in God and love for country is what makes this the greatest nation on the planet. Now, everyone, "God Bless America..."
You're welcome.

[IMSlacker]

Seriously, ragging on the quality of his education doesn't even make sense. If I was an Obama-hating Republican or Hillary supporter, I would be making the opposite argument. I'll help you out. Say: "Obama thinks he is better than all of you red-meating-eating, traditional-values, average Americans because he went to these elitist schools which think they are so great that they won't allow in your average American C student. In fact, both Occidental and Columbia allow in lots of foreign students just because they scored well on tests and read too much in high school. Sarah Palin, on the other hand, understands that being book smart isn't everything. We Republicans might not have the fancy degrees of Hussein O but we know that faith in God and love for country is what makes this the greatest nation on the planet. Now, everyone, "God Bless America..."
You're welcome.

You forgot Drill Baby Drill!

[epo]

From an internal memo in the PTA:

If you’ve read the news in the past few days, I’m sure you’ve heard PTA’s name a few times. We’ve had several inquiries about Governor Palin’s involvement in PTA and I’m guessing you have too. According to the Alaska PTA, Sarah Palin was a PTA member for two years in the mid- 90's in the Wasilla, Alaska area. She has never served in PTA at the state level in any capacity and the National office has not worked with her in her official capacity as governor.

To clarify she never did anything meaningful with the PTA, she was just a dues-paying member.

Can we stop making this a part of her "qualifications"?

[IMSlacker]

From an internal memo in the PTA:



To clarify she never did anything meaningful with the PTA, she was just a dues-paying member.

Can we stop making this a part of her "qualifications"?

Did her kids even play hockey?

[Ritalin]

THANK YOU! I AM SO GLAD I AM NOT THE ONLY ONE WHO SEES THIS! I THOUGHT I WAS GOING CRAZY! WHICH EXPLAINS MY ALL CAPS POST!

Hey, now my little feeling are hurt, Scott. You and I both noticed this during Palin's speech.

You don't want to be my friend? Fine.

I'll hang out with Jersey Sean and the REAL americans. I mean Americans. Capital "A".

[TheMojoPin]

Does this woman exist outside of prepared statements and speeches? She's been the VP pick for a week now and basically lives in seclusion like Michael Jackson and is only wheeled out when it's time to rattle of something pre-prepared.

[epo]

Does this woman exist outside of prepared statements and speeches? She's been the VP pick for a week now and basically lives in seclusion like Michael Jackson and is only wheeled out when it's time to rattle of something pre-prepared.

Wait, you are saying that an interview with People Magazine isn't tough?

[angrymissy]

Does this woman exist outside of prepared statements and speeches? She's been the VP pick for a week now and basically lives in seclusion like Michael Jackson and is only wheeled out when it's time to rattle of something pre-prepared.

This is just rich:

http://www.time-blog.com/swampland/2008/09/no_questions_please_were.html

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Transcript: CARNEY: We don't know yet and we won't know until you guys allow her to take questions, you know, can she answer tough questions, you know, domestic policy, foreign policy--

WALLACE: But I mean like from who? From you? Who cares?!

CARNEY: Who cares? I think the American people care.

WALLACE: I think the American people want to see her -- I mean who cares if she can talk to Time Magazine? She talked to the American people. The American people want to say, "How am I going to save my home?" She can answer that question. ... She took the stage and talked to the American people about things they care about: How they're gonna save their homes.

[HBox]

Does this woman exist outside of prepared statements and speeches? She's been the VP pick for a week now and basically lives in seclusion like Michael Jackson and is only wheeled out when it's time to rattle of something pre-prepared.

She's turning into the caricature that Republicans wanted to paint Obama as: an empty candidate who gives pretty (or in this case caustic) speeches but stands for nothing as far as anyone can tell.

[HBox]

She took the stage and talked to the American people about things they care about: How they're gonna save their homes.

OK, I'll give them that one.

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[Recyclerz]

To tag onto angrymissy's post - more evidence that the Republican campaign is trying to keep the protective bubble around their new Barbie doll

http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/09/no_interviews_till_shes_ready.php

[epo]

To tag onto angrymissy's post - more evidence that the Republican campaign is trying to keep the protective bubble around their new Barbie doll

http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/09/no_interviews_till_shes_ready.php

Along with ABC News' Jake Tapper's take:

Palin Media Avoidance Watch, Day Seven (http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/09/palin-media-avo.html)

[ChrisTheCop]

Has Joe Biden spoken much after the DNC?

I read a quote from him today complimenting Palin's speech, but is he making the rounds?
(This is not an antagonistic question, just a question).

Perhaps the VP's believe that it's best to let the big guys do the talking for now.

I think if Palin were to go on TV tonight, it would all be about the babies anyway.
Give the media time to get over that crap.

[angrymissy]

Has Joe Biden spoken much after the DNC?

I read a quote from him today complimenting Palin's speech, but is he making the rounds?
(This is not an antagonistic question, just a question).

Perhaps the VP's believe that it's best to let the big guys do the talking for now.

I think if Palin were to go on TV tonight, it would all be about the babies anyway.
Give the media time to get over that crap.

Yes, he is campaigning and speaking all over the place. He was in PA, I think and is headed somewhere else in New England. I see new quotes from him in the press every AM.

He is even,*gasp* TALKING TO THE MEDIA!

[ChrisTheCop]

Yes, he is campaigning and speaking all over the place. He was in PA, I think and is headed somewhere else in New England. I see new quotes from him in the press every AM.

He is even,*gasp* TALKING TO THE MEDIA!

Ok, cool. I did a search for his name and couldnt find anything. Yay Biden!

EDIT: Wait though, she's campaigning and speaking all over the place too. But only selected media, no news conferences.

[HBox]

Ok, cool. I did a search for his name and couldnt find anything. Yay Biden!

The massive Palin specter blotted out everything since the end of the DNC.

[ChrisTheCop]

The massive Palin specter blotted out everything since the end of the DNC.

Ha! So it would appear.

[TheMojoPin]

Joe Biden wasn't some political and public unknown when he was named. Joe Biden has been a national political figure for a long time and clearly has never met a microphone he didn't love and want to make an honest woman of. It's completely hollow to stack him up against Palin in terms of confronting and handling the media when Biden has shown for decades that he can do just that and answer the tough questions on a national scale. Palin doesn't have that history. Palin doesn't have any history. Contrary to Palin, look at how

Obama has confronted and dealt with the media for two years now when he too started out as a total unknown. He came out the gates ready to talk to everyone. Maybe Palin will join him and be similarly bold and upfront, but as of right now she's failed miserably in that regard. She basically doesn't exist outside of prepared speeches and photo ops. All she's doing right is repeatng the habits of what we got the last 8 years...another "maverick, non-DC" governor who can't handle the big questions.

[ChrisTheCop]

Do what I did, go to YouTube. There's tons of pre-nomination interviews with her as Governor to get an idea of who she is. I know thats not how we'd prefer it, but dont forget, even she was surprised that she was McCain's pick. She didnt prepare for months or years as Obama did, knowing thats what he was eventually gonna do. And as you point out, Biden has been in Washington forever, and knows just what to say to appease his party. I'm not comparing her as a politician to either Obama or Biden, but as you point out, the national spotlight is relatively new to her...not to mention knowing the press just wants to jump all over her for her family issues--which is why they cant wait! I'm willing to give her some time to soak it in, as long as she eventually speaks to her newest constituents. I'm guessing she's up to the task.

[Zorro]

Joe Biden wasn't some political and public unknown when he was named. Joe Biden has been a national political figure for a long time and clearly has never met a microphone he didn't love and want to make an honest woman of. It's completely hollow to stack him up against Palin in terms of confronting and handling the media when Biden has shown for decades that he can do just that and answer the tough questions on a national scale. Palin doesn't have that history. Palin doesn't have any history. Contrary to Palin, look at how

Obama has confronted and dealt with the media for two years now when he too started out as a total unknown. He came out the gates ready to talk to everyone. Maybe Palin will join him and be similarly bold and upfront, but as of right now she's failed miserably in that regard. She basically doesn't exist outside of prepared speeches and photo ops. All she's doing right is repeatng the habits of what we got the last 8 years...another "maverick, non-DC" governor who can't handle the big questions.

Palin Power: Fresh Face Now More Popular Than Obama, McCain


http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/palin_power_fresh_face_now_more_popular_than_obama _mccain


I'm never sure about these polling organizations, but it looked interesting....

[ChrisTheCop]

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/palin_power_fresh_face_now_more_popular_than_obama _mccain


I'm never sure about these polling organizations, but it looked interesting....

Thats all very nice for her and all, but thats people answering a poll based on one prepared speech, and emotions caused by her public floggings. I agree with others here that we need to hear more from her before we can say "She's My Choice Too!" I just disagree that her lack of immediacy means the opposite.

[angrymissy]

Do what I did, go to YouTube. There's tons of pre-nomination interviews with her as Governor to get an idea of who she is. I know thats not how we'd prefer it, but dont forget, even she was surprised that she was McCain's pick. She didnt prepare for months or years as Obama did, knowing thats what he was eventually gonna do. And as you point out, Biden has been in Washington forever, and knows just what to say to appease his party. I'm not comparing her as a politician to either Obama or Biden, but as you point out, the national spotlight is relatively new to her...not to mention knowing the press just wants to jump all over her for her family issues--which is why they cant wait! I'm willing to give her some time to soak it in, as long as she eventually speaks to her newest constituents. I'm guessing she's up to the task.

I did and found this stuff with her telling people to pray to get everything done, and it scared the living crap outta me

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[HBox]

Do what I did, go to YouTube. There's tons of pre-nomination interviews with her as Governor to get an idea of who she is. I know thats not how we'd prefer it, but dont forget, even she was surprised that she was McCain's pick. She didnt prepare for months or years as Obama did, knowing thats what he was eventually gonna do. And as you point out, Biden has been in Washington forever, and knows just what to say to appease his party. I'm not comparing her as a politician to either Obama or Biden, but as you point out, the national spotlight is relatively new to her...not to mention knowing the press just wants to jump all over her for her family issues--which is why they cant wait! I'm willing to give her some time to soak it in, as long as she eventually speaks to her newest constituents. I'm guessing she's up to the task.

The problem is that those interviews deal with Alaska issues. There's a whole host of issues on which she has no record. Who knows what she originally thought of the Iraq War. The closest thing I can find is a quote where she expressed no opinion on the surge other than she hoped there was an exit plan. Not that she knew or was going to find out, she just hoped there was one. This is just one of many issues.

This is nothing like Obama's rise. He made a great speech in 2004. Then he ran for President two years later after writing a book about his views on issues and his thoughts on how government should work. He started as an underdog, built up a campaign organization and defeated the Democratic Party establishment. Palin was selected, made a well received speech and is now hiding for a undetermined amount of time.

[TheMojoPin]

Do what I did, go to YouTube. There's tons of pre-nomination interviews with her as Governor to get an idea of who she is. I know thats not how we'd prefer it, but dont forget, even she was surprised that she was McCain's pick.

I'm not talking about getitng an idea of who she is. It's to see if she can handle the pressure of the national spotlight and having to think on her feet on a national and global scale.

She didnt prepare for months or years as Obama did, knowing thats what he was eventually gonna do. And as you point out, Biden has been in Washington forever, and knows just what to say to appease his party. I'm not comparing her as a politician to either Obama or Biden, but as you point out, the national spotlight is relatively new to her...not to mention knowing the press just wants to jump all over her for her family issues--which is why they cant wait!

So what? With the position she's in, she needs to be able to handle everything. There's no kind of magical time out she gets for being a mother of a large family with young kids or a "hockey mom" or whatever the hell they wat to call her. If the questions are about her fmaily, she needs to deal with it. If i's about domestic policy, she needs to deal with it. Foreign affairs? Deal with it. It's part and parcel of the position she's in.

You also bring up another point I don't see mentioned too much...for better or for worse, it's pretty clear Obama has desired the White House for years now. As such, he's directed his life and his knowledge to being able to run for that position and actually hold that office. It strikes me as disingenuous that people tossed out her executive experience as if it trumps all when Obama has been in the American political system for a decade now clearly with his eyes on the big seat. The man has prepped himself to be able to win that job for years now. I don't see the benefit of having someone who is completely cluless to national politics on any level. Obama's had to look at and understad the national picture for at least 4 years now.

I'm willing to give her some time to soak it in, as long as she eventually speaks to her newest constituents. I'm guessing she's up to the task.

Why should we just assume she's up to the task? As it stands, the GOP is keeping her relatively hidden for someone who is supposed to be the darling of their campan at the moment and the face of the "new Republicans." That raises HUGE questions. If anything, it should be the opposite, and you'd think they'd be pushing her to every outlet as much as possible to win everyone over ad shore up the bases if they're that confident in her. And why should we assume that two months is enough for someone to "soak it in?" Like you said herself, she thought she wasn't gonna be picked. Her mindset has been on Alaska only up until a couple weeks ago...now we should think two months is enough for her to get acclimated to national and global politics?

The Republicans knew exactly what they were doing picking her. Only two months to go, unknown, has the perfect story of the pregnant daughter, so every time things get too tough she can be unavilable for a few days tending to "family issues" that'll just garner more sympathy and popularity. It's genius.

[ChrisTheCop]

I did and found this stuff with her telling people to pray to get everything done, and it scared the living crap outta me

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Well...those werent just "people" they were Master seminary students, going out in the world to do "God's work"--she at least knew her audience. And that of course wasnt the State Building, it was a church. Talking about God in a church really aint nothin new to poiliticians. I'm not saying she didnt believe every word, but I'm also not saying that that belief is a deal breaker for me. Obama has had some very public religious views, and I just found this from Senator Biden:

“If I’m the nominee, Republicans will be sorry,” he said. “The next Republican that tells me I’m not religious I’m going to shove my rosary beads down their throat. -Joe Biden 2005

[HBox]

Speaking of Palin AND Biden, here's a sobering thought: Dick Cheney was more popular than both of them when selected as VP. (http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/09/palin-biden-less-popular-than-cheney.html)

[ChrisTheCop]

1. I'm not talking about getitng an idea of who she is. It's to see if she can handle the pressure of the national spotlight and having to think on her feet on a national and global scale.

2. for better or for worse, it's pretty clear Obama has desired the White House for years now. As such, he's directed his life and his knowledge to being able to run for that position and actually hold that office. It strikes me as disingenuous that people tossed out her executive experience as if it trumps all when Obama has been in the American political system for a decade now clearly with his eyes on the big seat. The man has prepped himself to be able to win that job for years now. Obama's had to look at and understad the national picture for at least 4 years now.


3. The Republicans knew exactly what they were doing picking her. Only two months to go, unknown, has the perfect story of the pregnant daughter, so every time things get too tough she can be unavilable for a few days tending to "family issues" that'll just garner more sympathy and popularity. It's genius.

1. Fact is, she is the candidate now. She needs to friggin "learn" her running mate, get a real feel as to where her ideas and his meet and dont meet, so they can put forward a united front. Obama and Biden dont agree on everything either, but they have the luxury of knowing eachother/working with eachother long enough to know when saying one thing might undermine the others agenda, so they wont say the wrong thing. I know, I know, this shouldve all been done before now, but it wasnt. We know it--theyve told us so. The 2 need a chance to structure what their ticket means. I hope, as you do, that they do it fast, but I have no interest in grilling a candidate just to watch him/her fall. I want her to fail or succeed based on what she knows and how she presents that. No one's saying she's th eperfect candidate-- just that she needs some time to become a viable one.

2. That argument didnt seem to work for Hillary, and it doesnt work for Obama. Just cause youve wanted something longer than someone else, doesnt make it yours.

3. The genius is that you have somehow re-turned around an attack that backfired on the dems to try and make it helpful to them again. The whole baby gate thing had a democratic genesis... both times. You guys said they were trying to HIDE that from us! Now theyre geniuses and knew exactly what they were doing from the start, manipulating the "liberal bloggers"??

[angrymissy]

Well...those werent just "people" they were Master seminary students, going out in the world to do "God's work"--she at least knew her audience. And that of course wasnt the State Building, it was a church. Talking about God in a church really aint nothin new to poiliticians. I'm not saying she didnt believe every word, but I'm also not saying that that belief is a deal breaker for me. Obama has had some very public religious views, and I just found this from Senator Biden:

-Joe Biden 2005

That rules (Joe Biden, it's not quoting for some reason). Here's my thing, it's one thing to be religious, I could actually care less if someone is, it's another thing to get into kooky "God tells me to pray for this political thing" or "God talks to me" business.

The woman said that the Iraq war was a "Task from God" and that scares the crap outta me.

Palin told students about her oldest son, 19-year-old Track, who is set to be deployed to Iraq this month with the U.S. Army. She urged students to pray “that our leaders -- that our national leaders -- are sending [soldiers] out on a task that is from God.”

She added, “That's what we have to make sure that we are praying for: that there is a plan and that that plan is God's plan.”

[HBox]

That rules (Joe Biden, it's not quoting for some reason). Here's my thing, it's one thing to be religious, I could actually care less if someone is, it's another thing to get into kooky "God tells me to pray for this political thing" or "God talks to me" business.

The woman said that the Iraq war was a "Task from God" and that scares the crap outta me.

The "God wants this oil pipeline" thing was even worse.

[angrymissy]

I wish this was true, but it's very sensational and very thin on sources.

http://www.laprogressive.com/2008/09/05/alaskans-speak-in-a-frightened-whisper-palin-is-%e2%80%9cracist-sexist-vindictive-and-mean%e2%80%9d/#more-954

“So Sambo beat the bitch!”

This is how Republican Vice Presidential nominee Sarah Palin described Barack Obama’s win over Hillary Clinton to political colleagues in a restaurant a few days after Obama locked up the Democratic Party presidential nomination.

Besides insulting Obama with a Step-N’-Fetch-It, “darkie musical” swipe, people who know her say she refers regularly to Alaska’s Aboriginal people as “Arctic Arabs” – how efficient, lumping two apparently undesirable groups into one ugly description – as well as the more colourful “mukluks” along with the totally unimaginative “f**king Eskimo’s,” according to a number of Alaskans and Wasillians interviewed for this article.

[ChrisTheCop]

That rules (Joe Biden, it's not quoting for some reason). Here's my thing, it's one thing to be religious, I could actually care less if someone is, it's another thing to get into kooky "God tells me to pray for this political thing" or "God talks to me" business.

The woman said that the Iraq war was a "Task from God" and that scares the crap outta me.

As I believe someone said the first time this was posted, I see nothing wrong with someone who says theyre religious, being religious. Some people say "Everything happens for a reason". She believes, apparently, that reason is God, or at least she did that day she was speaking to a roomful of seminary students, and her own pastor. Oh well. I'm not terribly religious, but I can appreciate it in other people. Like this guy:

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He's so religious in fact, that when he had his brain surgery a few years back, he asked the doctor to keep his rosary beads under his pillow because it gave him strength. A lot of people feel that way. What scares the shit out of you or me is perfectly normal to others.

[angrymissy]

As I believe someone said the first time this was posted, I see nothing wrong with someone who says theyre religious, being religious. Some people say "Everything happens for a reason". She believes, apparently, that reason is God, or at least she did that day she was speaking to a roomful of seminary students, and her own pastor. Oh well. I'm not terribly religious, but I can appreciate it in other people. Like this guy:

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He's so religious in fact, that when he had his brain surgery a few years back, he asked the doctor to keep his rosary beads under his pillow because it gave him strength. A lot of people feel that way. What scares the shit out of you or me is perfectly normal to others.

I don't think you understand what I'm getting at. That doesn't scare me. The fact that he keeps rosary beads under his pillow is a his personal faith.

Coming out and saying the Iraq war is a task from God is bringing your personal faith into politics and legislation, and THAT is what scares me.

Telling people to pray to make your political goals come to fruition because God wants it, THAT scares me.

Sarah Palin could worship a featherless duck and I wouldn't give a crap, the problem for me starts when your personal religion gets brought into politics.

[TheMojoPin]

1. Fact is, she is the candidate now. She needs to friggin "learn" her running mate, get a real feel as to where her ideas and his meet and dont meet, so they can put forward a united front. Obama and Biden dont agree on everything either, but they have the luxury of knowing eachother/working with eachother long enough to know when saying one thing might undermine the others agenda, so they wont say the wrong thing. I know, I know, this shouldve all been done before now, but it wasnt. We know it--theyve told us so. The 2 need a chance to structure what their ticket means. I hope, as you do, that they do it fast, but I have no interest in grilling a candidate just to watch him/her fall. I want her to fail or succeed based on what she knows and how she presents that. No one's saying she's th eperfect candidate-- just that she needs some time to become a viable one.

This is terrifying to me. Why are you so calmly saying this about someone who has TWO MONTHS to learn the ropes who by her own admission has basically no experience and perception of the national and global political scenes? She then only has TWO MONTHS after the election to be up to speed before she takes office if her ticket wins...a ticket where she could utlimately be president due to McCain's age and poor health. I honestly feel like everything is going insane around me that more people aren't pointing out the sheer absurdity of such a scenario. All this reinforces for me is that shallowness of the GOP at this point...if she was the best they could do, she should have been picked shortly after McCain was the winner of the nomination, but as it stands, they think so little of us, they're going to push an unknown out there who has adjust and educate herself to the national and global political scene in 4 months. How is this not bonkers and freaking people out?

2. That argument didnt seem to work for Hillary, and it doesnt work for Obama. Just cause youve wanted something longer than someone else, doesnt make it yours.

Tha wasn't my argument at all. I'm not saying it means you "get" to win...I'm saying that Obama has had at least 4 years to acclimate himself to a position he wants and wants to be able to handle. Palin, by her own words, had no inkling of national politics until a few weeks ago. For better or for worse, Obama wants to be president and has for years and he's adjusted his focuses accordingly years ago.

3. The genius is that you have somehow re-turned around an attack that backfired on the dems to try and make it helpful to them again. The whole baby gate thing had a democratic genesis... both times. You guys said they were trying to HIDE that from us! Now theyre geniuses and knew exactly what they were doing from the start, manipulating the "liberal bloggers"??

Half of this statement is ridiculous since it apparently implies "the Democrats" had a nefarious plan to marshall the "liberal bloggers" over "babygate." Secondly, what I've said all along since the baby was revealed is that it reflects negatively on the shittiness of the GOP's selection whether they knew or not...if they knew, it's shitty because they know it's a good distraction from actually focsuing on Palin and it's something she can hide behind. If they didn't know, it's shitty because it just makes this pick look even more uninformed, shallow and insulting.

[ChrisTheCop]

I don't think you understand what I'm getting at. That doesn't scare me. The fact that he keeps rosary beads under his pillow is a his personal faith.

Coming out and saying the Iraq war is a task from God is bringing your personal faith into politics and legislation, and THAT is what scares me.

Telling people to pray to make your political goals come to fruition because God wants it, THAT scares me.

Sarah Palin could worship a featherless duck and I wouldn't give a crap, the problem for me starts when your personal religion gets brought into politics.

Again...you keep saying "people" as if this was a campaign speech, or just any gathering of people. These were PEOPLE who believe exactly what she was saying! She didnt go to the UN and say we must attack iraq because God wants it! She was helping her childhood, and i assume current, pastor send out a graduating class of SEMINARY STUDENTS.

When former presidents have said, "And may God bless America" was that scary too?

I dunno, I think there's scarier things about her.

[keithy_19]

Coming out and saying the Iraq war is a task from God is bringing your personal faith into politics and legislation, and THAT is what scares me.

Telling people to pray to make your political goals come to fruition because God wants it, THAT scares me.

Unfortunately, you're own person faith eventually always finds its way into your actions. And asking people to pray for your successes and goals is used to make people feel like they 'helped the cause'. It's always nice to know people took time out of their day to think(pray) for you.

Sarah Palin could worship a featherless duck and I wouldn't give a crap, the problem for me starts when your personal religion gets brought into politics.

I'm just happy that finally someone acknowledged my religion. :smile:

[ChrisTheCop]

I did and found this stuff with her telling people to pray to get everything done, and it scared the living crap outta me



This is terrifying to me.

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[yojimbo7248]

Again...you keep saying "people" as if this was a campaign speech, or just any gathering of people. These were PEOPLE who believe exactly what she was saying! She didnt go to the UN and say we must attack iraq because God wants it! She was helping her childhood, and i assume current, pastor send out a graduating class of SEMINARY STUDENTS.

When former presidents have said, "And may God bless America" was that scary too?

I dunno, I think there's scarier things about her.

The whole God-on-our-side mentality bothers me when it comes to war. It gets especially dangerous in the Middle East. Many Christians believe the current conflict in Iraq is part of a God-ordained war against Islam that will lead to Armageddon. If you have a leader that believes that war against Muslims is God's will, that person will be far less likely to find a diplomatic way out of the conflict. The whole concept of a Holy War or Crusade scares the shit out of me. Though the evangelicals have learned they can't say Crusade out loud, they still believe it.

[ChrisTheCop]

The whole God-on-our-side mentality bothers me when it comes to war. It gets especially dangerous in the Middle East. Many Christians believe the current conflict in Iraq is part of a God-ordained war against Islam that will lead to Armageddon. If you have a leader that believes that war against Muslims is God's will, that person will be far less likely to find a diplomatic way out of the conflict. The whole concept of a Holy War or Crusade scares the shit out of me. Though the evangelicals have learned they can't say Crusade out loud, they still believe it.

True enough, although it's been my experience that "religious" types can always turn around and say, "perhaps it was God's plan that we acquiesce". There are indeed fire and brimstoners who go all out and believe as youve described, but I see no reason from the video posted to believe Palin to be of that ilk.

[yojimbo7248]

True enough, although it's been my experience that "religious" types can always turn around and say, "perhaps it was God's plan that we acquiesce". There are indeed fire and brimstoners who go all out and believe as youve described, but I see no reason from the video posted to believe Palin to be of that ilk.

Good point. I respect anyone's right to believe that there is a greater plan from God. How each person interprets or perceives that plan depends on quality of the individual. Throughout history you have had slave owners, fascists, Spanish Inquisition, suicide bombers, and on and on who have justified their actions by saying it is God's plan. On the other hand, you have Mother Theresa, Desmond Tutu, and on and on working for good who believe they following God's plan. I agree that believing in a Divine Plan per se isn't good or bad.
It's just difficult when it comes to leading a secular nation like the US. I feel deeply uncomfortable with our leaders making decisions based on their faith in a god that I don't believe in. Though we have a church/state separation, Christians are a majority and I definitely won't see an atheist president in my lifetime. so, the best I can hope for is a leadership that will think God's plan is peace rather than killing Muslims. I'm still not sure which side Palin is.

[epo]

Just to give an example of MojoPin's point, take this Sunday for the VP candidates:


Biden will appear on ABC's This Week, and will appear on the full hour of Meet The Press.
Palin has no scheduled media appearances at this point.


This hiding of Governor Palin "to study" can't continue.

[scottinnj]

Many Christians believe the current conflict in Iraq is part of a God-ordained war against Islam that will lead to Armageddon.........Though the evangelicals have learned they can't say Crusade out loud, they still believe it.

You have a point that we have to accept as fact. But remember most
evangelicals do not subscribe to this religious outlook on geopolitics, and when Bush leaves office the sentiment that does exist will fade out.

Also keep in mind this is one of the reasons why you must work, work work on getting Obama elected.

I don't care if he is 10 points ahead of McCain mid-October, until 11:59 pm November 3rd, you must campaign like he is 10 points behind.


You see, if McCain wins, it only validates those who STILL believe the invasion of Iraq was the right thing to do.

I supported the invasion, like many other Americans. But once the WMD argument came up empty, I realized we had made a mistake. If you ask most Americans who supported the president's decision to wage war on Iraq, "If you knew then what you know now about the threat of WMDs in Iraq, would you have supported the invasion?" and I bet most people would say "No."

But there are many people, just like those in the RNC audience Thursday night, who want another 4 years of a Republican in the White House to validate their beliefs.

You see, since McCain is running on national security and foreign policy as his main planks, and since he will not admit a mistake of invading Iraq, these people think that if he wins the White House, that means that the rest of the country agrees with them, and Iraq will be written by the historians as a high point in American history, and "you see, we were right all along"


ACK ACK ACKACKACKACKACKACK!

[scottinnj]

.........the best I can hope for is a leadership that will think God's plan is peace rather than killing Muslims. I'm still not sure which side Palin is.



You sir, are quite the diplomat. When Obama wins, I will recommend you to serve in the State Department.

[A.J.]

Speaking of Palin AND Biden, here's a sobering thought: Dick Cheney was more popular than both of them when selected as VP. (http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/09/palin-biden-less-popular-than-cheney.html)

Something I recently posted after Biden was selected by Obama was how eerily similar it was to Bush selecting Cheney back in 2000: a candidate with little government experience, particularly in foreign policy, picks a long-time Washington veteran who knows the ins and outs of Capitol Hill and has extensive foreign policy experience. Said VP candidate brings "gravitas" to the ticket.

I'm in no way saying Biden will turn out to be a VP like Cheney but the similarities ARE there.

Funny how nobody else is making this comparison. I guess it's all because of my awesomely keen and incomparable analysis.

[A.J.]

The whole God-on-our-side mentality bothers me when it comes to war. It gets especially dangerous in the Middle East.

It's getting especially dangerous in THIS country as we continue to see the erosion of the separation of church and state.

[Zorro]

It's getting especially dangerous in THIS country as we continue to see the erosion of the separation of church and state.

Where exactly has there been an erosion of church and state? I understand that Bush and Obama are religous zealots, but if I see anything I see our government moving farther and farther away from religous symbols...

[A.J.]

Where exactly has there been an erosion of church and state? I understand that Bush and Obama are religous zealots, but if I see anything I see our government moving farther and farther away from religous symbols...

It goes back to what Missy was talking about with the interjection of personal faith in politics and legislation. I don't care about my elected officials' faith. Just keep it the fuck out of governance. When I hear Bush talking about asking God for guidance I think "Well downsize the government and fire all those advisors and assistants you have because clearly they can't compete with Him in terms of wisdom." Then you elected officials asking people to "pray for this/pray for that". It's no different than the King of Saudi Arabia asking people to pray for rain.

Then you have incidents like the debate over putting copies of the Ten Commandments in government buildings because "they form the basis of our legal and moral beliefs". Yeah? So does the Code of Hammurabi. Are we going to put copies of THEM in government buildings too?

Forgive me for being jaded but living in Muslim countries when religion IS the state has made me a little sensitive on the subject.

[KatPw]

Where exactly has there been an erosion of church and state? I understand that Bush and Obama are religous zealots, but if I see anything I see our government moving farther and farther away from religous symbols...

If you are interested there is a great podcast (and it is also broadcast on Air America) called Freethought radio, and they talk about the different ways religion is being injected into our Government.

[epo]

This made me giggle:

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[yojimbo7248]

Where exactly has there been an erosion of church and state? I understand that Bush and Obama are religous zealots, but if I see anything I see our government moving farther and farther away from religous symbols...

Our government is moving away from religious symbols. We atheists and our Jew, Wiccan, Muslim, etc. allies are winning the battle against Christmas (take that Bill O'Reilly). Now you can't have a manger scene in front of a government building and everyone wishes each other a Happy Holiday rather Merry Christmas. However, our leadership still gets us into wars because they believe God is on our side. We have to wait for the historians to figure out what was really going on in Bush's brain but I believe that he rushed into Iraq because he sincerely believed he was an instrument of our Lord.

I have Iraq on the brain because I am reading an extremely depressing book - "Imperial Life in the Emerald City". It's all about the CPA, Bremer, the DoD and the disastrous post-conflict phase. The Bush administration and Rumsfeld put completely unqualified people in important positions in Baghdad for petty political reasons. Iraq didn't need to be the mess it is today. I don't blame Bush's Christian faith for all of his idiotic decisions but I do think his belief in God made him assume that Iraq would just magically start functioning after we blew it to shit.

[scottinnj]

It goes back to what Missy was talking about with the interjection of personal faith in politics and legislation. I don't care about my elected officials' faith. Just keep it the fuck out of governance.

Faith in politicians is a fine line that nobody will agree on-some will like it, some won't.

If you use your moral conscience you have gotten from your faith, I think that is sufficient for most people who are wary of "church and state"

I can see people getting upset when legislators try to the Bill of Rights with the Ten Commandments, or the Torah, or whatever is equivalent in the Koran.

[ChrisTheCop]

The whole "God on our side" thing would scare me if I believed it to be true.
Is there video, audio, or transcript of any federal government meeting (not a speech, a policy meeting) when ANYONE present said, "In addition to the facts stated previously by my learned associates , God wants us to (Invade Iraq)(Get Osama)(beat Islam)" and everyone said "harumph harumph harumph"??

Or are we just assuming that because they have faith, every move they make is because (they think) God told them to?

This would be the craziest thing Ive heard since Nancy consulted her astrologist and Ronnie listened.

[scottinnj]

I think the fear of an "annointed" leader is what McCain was getting at in his speech. I took it as a dig at the president-who has stated he believes God has put him in this position at this time in history to guide the country through these dark times.

[KnoxHarrington]

This is utterly bizarre: Bill O'Reilly, stung by pundits pointing out his hypocrisy for blasting Jamie Lynn Spears' pregnancy while being cool with Bristol Palin's, actually sent producers out to ambush an Atlanta Journal-Constitution columnist who wrote about this. At her home. On Saturday morning. But I think it didn't work like he thought: not only did she not crack, I don't think this weird exchange is really what Bill wanted:

O’Reilly guy: “Cynthia, in your column, were you comparing Bristol Palin to Jamie Lynn Spears?”

Cynthia: “In my column, I was criticizing Bill O”Reilly. And I stand by that.”

O’Reilly guy: “Bill pointed out that Jamie Lynn Spears was running around unsupervised. You know that. So you were saying that Bristol Palin was running around unsupervised.”

Cynthia: “If I said that, read that part. You’re holding the column (in your hand). Read where I said Bristol Palin was running around unsupervised.”

O’Reilly guy: “You inferred it.”

Cynthia: “I inferred O’Reilly is a hypocrite. And I stand by that. Good day, gentlemen. I’m going inside to finish my Saturday chores.”

Umm, what? Is this douche really saying that Sarah Palin "supervised" her 17 year old daughter getting knocked up? What? What was the point of that "question"?

I hope the end of O'Reilly's show is near, but I doubt it, as long as there are rubes who want him to tell them what to think.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/9/6/132930/1384/745/589125

[ChrisTheCop]

I think the fear of an "annointed" leader is what McCain was getting at in his speech. I took it as a dig at the president-who has stated he believes God has put him in this position at this time in history to guide the country through these dark times.

See how 2 people can hear things totally differently? I took it as a jab at Obama, who has repeatedly been referred to as our savior, who art in Illinois.
Remember Hillary?: "The skies will open up, The light will shine down, celestial choirs will sing, and we'll all do the right thing and the world will be perfect."

[scottinnj]

See how 2 people can hear things totally differently? I took it as a jab at Obama, who has repeatedly been referred to as our savior, who art in Illinois.
Remember Hillary?: "The skies will open up, The light will shine down, celestial choirs will sing, and we'll all do the right thing and the world will be perfect."

Well, if you think about it, you have a point. But McCain had just got done scolding the GOP for breaking the promise of fiscal responsibility. I had just assumed he was taking a jab at the president.

Anyone else notice McCain never mentioned Bush by name?

[ChrisTheCop]

This is utterly bizarre: Bill O'Reilly, stung by pundits pointing out his hypocrisy for blasting Jamie Lynn Spears' pregnancy while being cool with Bristol Palin's, actually sent producers out to ambush an Atlanta Journal-Constitution columnist who wrote about this. At her home. On Saturday morning. But I think it didn't work like he thought: not only did she not crack, I don't think this weird exchange is really what Bill wanted:



Umm, what? Is this douche really saying that Sarah Palin "supervised" her 17 year old daughter getting knocked up? What? What was the point of that "question"?

I hope the end of O'Reilly's show is near, but I doubt it, as long as there are rubes who want him to tell them what to think.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/9/6/132930/1384/745/589125

Well, at least you brought this thread back on topic.

[epo]

This is utterly bizarre: Bill O'Reilly, stung by pundits pointing out his hypocrisy for blasting Jamie Lynn Spears' pregnancy while being cool with Bristol Palin's, actually sent producers out to ambush an Atlanta Journal-Constitution columnist who wrote about this. At her home. On Saturday morning. But I think it didn't work like he thought: not only did she not crack, I don't think this weird exchange is really what Bill wanted:

Umm, what? Is this douche really saying that Sarah Palin "supervised" her 17 year old daughter getting knocked up? What? What was the point of that "question"?

I hope the end of O'Reilly's show is near, but I doubt it, as long as there are rubes who want him to tell them what to think.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/9/6/132930/1384/745/589125

The worst part of this story isn't that Bill O'Reilly is setting up those who criticize him with "gotcha" journalism. The worst part is he's absolutely ruining the careers of lackeys that he's using for the segments.

Take this example:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Y_2IZT4VgDY&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Y_2IZT4VgDY&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

That young man will never work in a credible outlet for the rest of his career.

[KatPw]

Umm, what? Is this douche really saying that Sarah Palin "supervised" her 17 year old daughter getting knocked up? What? What was the point of that "question"?

I hope the end of O'Reilly's show is near, but I doubt it, as long as there are rubes who want him to tell them what to think.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/9/6/132930/1384/745/589125
I've come across a few stories and videos of O'Reilly's people making themselves look stupid. Apparently it is not hard.
ETA: Epo, you rock for posting that video, that is one of the ones I was thinking of.

[ChrisTheCop]

Well, if you think about it, you have a point. But McCain had just got done scolding the GOP for breaking the promise of fiscal responsibility. I had just assumed he was taking a jab at the president.

Anyone else notice McCain never mentioned Bush by name?

Yep. Me and every pundit after the speech. :dry:

Didnt even mention Bush "senior" by name...
But he did mention Laura by name..whats up with that? Hubba hubba. SCANDAL!!!

I'm grateful to the president for leading us in those dark days following the worst attack on American soil in our history, and keeping us safe from another attack many thought was inevitable; and to the first lady, Laura Bush, a model of grace and kindness in public and in private. And I'm grateful to the 41st president and his bride of 63 years, and for their outstanding example of honorable service to our country.

[HBox]

Mitt Romney was the only major speaker to mention President Bush by name.

[epo]

Governor Palins breakfast food: (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122002155637283431.html)

"I guess my biggest pitfall is breakfast. I know it's the most important meal of the day but I still haven't bought into it. I hate to admit it, but a skinny white-chocolate mocha is my staple in the morning."

Mocha! Mocha! Elitist!

[scottinnj]

I was reading an article on Time.com (http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1839190,00.html?cnn=yes), and in one of the paragraphs something struck me as odd:

Over the past few years, a growing number of Evangelicals have been consciously distancing themselves from the more extreme stands of the Christian right. They live in the suburbs, hold graduate degrees, and while they might not want their children reading certain novels, would be embarrassed by attempts to ban certain books from libraries, as Palin is reported to have briefly considered while mayor of Wasilla, Alaska

Now what I heard on this board and AA, is that Palin not only banned books from the library, but went as far as to try to have the librarian fired for not complying.

But that statement from Time paints a different picture altogether. "Briefly considering" and trying to have a librarian fired are two different things.

Can anyone get to the bottom of this? Did she, or did she not ban books and try to fire a librarian?

[scottinnj]

Governor Palins breakfast food: (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122002155637283431.html)



Mocha! Mocha! Elitist!

Starbucks is a commie plot. Anything that makes you order a muffin and coffee by having to speak half French half Italian is undermining America.:tongue:

[angrymissy]

I was reading an article on Time.com (http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1839190,00.html?cnn=yes), and in one of the paragraphs something struck me as odd:

Now what I heard on this board and AA, is that Palin not only banned books from the library, but went as far as to try to have the librarian fired for not complying.

But that statement from Time paints a different picture altogether. "Briefly considering" and trying to have a librarian fired are two different things.

Can anyone get to the bottom of this? Did she, or did she not ban books and try to fire a librarian?

If you look up the AK papers from that time (I did this a few days ago, but don't have the links right now), she brought up the subject with the librarian, saying there were books that her voters would find "morally objectionable", and asking what the process was to have books banned, the librarian balked at it, librarian was fired soon thereafter, then rehired after the town protested. Books were not actually banned, the subject of banning them was just brought up. The librarian ain't talkin to the press either. This is something I'd like to see Palin discuss in an interview.

[scottinnj]

This is something I'd like to see Palin discuss in an interview.


Agreed. I had a church near where I live do a book/record burning when I was a teen, it was horrifying.

That's why I'd like to learn more about this. What books did she "balk" on and what exactly happened between her and the librarian?

[HBox]

Agreed. I had a church near where I live do a book/record burning when I was a teen, it was horrifying.

That's why I'd like to learn more about this. What books did she "balk" on and what exactly happened between her and the librarian?

I don't think it got that far. She did what she usually has done in her government career: feel out people for total obedience, and purge out the non-obedient. The backlash was immediate so the replacement wasn't on job long enough to start the banning.

[epo]

This is something I'd like to see Palin discuss in an interview.

Interview? I thought running for the second-highest office in the land didn't involve actually speaking to the press?

Outrageous!

[HBox]

Interview? I thought running for the second-highest office in the land didn't involve actually speaking to the press?

Outrageous!

Missy's obviously sexist if she thinks a woman can answer questions.

[epo]

Missy's obviously sexist if she thinks a woman can answer questions.

The irony is that we live in a country where those that want the highest office(s) of the land have to answer EVERYTHING about their very existence:


They have to answer extremely personal questions about their childhood.
They have to answer questions about past behaviors.
They have to turn over their personal medical records, which gives up the very HIPAA rights that we all have.


Yet I listen to McCain campaign surrogates claim that we need to give Governor Palin "time" to answer questions.

This only highlights how freaking unqualified this pick is to be on the largest political stage at this point in time.

[KnoxHarrington]

OK, it's becoming clearer that Sarah Palin really sucked as mayor of Wasilia. In particular, a hockey rink project undertaken while she was mayor has turned into a legal nightmare for the town, adding $1.3 million to the cost. And what happened?

The only catch was that the city began building roads and installing utilities for the project before it had unchallenged title to the land. The misstep led to years of litigation and at least $1.3 million in extra costs for a small municipality with a small budget. What was to be Ms. Palin's legacy has turned into a financial mess that continues to plague Wasilla.

"It's too bad that the city of Wasilla didn't do their homework and secure the land before they began construction," said Kathy Wells, a longtime activist here. "She was not your ceremonial mayor; she was in charge of running the city. So it was her job to make sure things were done correctly."

I guess she was too busy picking books to ban to attend to a tiny detail like whether or not it's actually OK to start building a major city project.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122065537792905483.html

[brettmojo]

OK, it's becoming clearer that Sarah Palin really sucked as mayor of Wasilia. In particular, a hockey rink project undertaken while she was mayor has turned into a legal nightmare for the town, adding $1.3 million to the cost. And what happened?



I guess she was too busy picking books to ban to attend to a tiny detail like whether or not it's actually OK to start building a major city project.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122065537792905483.html
http://www.peebeeandjay.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/20060912120223-mr-burns.gif

[DonInNC]

Damn, I was really looking forward to being ambivalent this time around.

[scottinnj]

It said in the WSJ article that the land went for 6x as much as the town had planned on, and to avoid those costs all Palin had to do "close the deal with the Nature Conservancy"

She should run for governor of NJ, not the VP of the USA. She'd fit right in here.

[Drunky McBetidont]

her pussy smells like fish


http://www.keyshistory.org/fish-great-barracuda.jpg

[frye hole]

OK, it's becoming clearer that Sarah Palin really sucked as mayor of Wasilia. In particular, a hockey rink project undertaken while she was mayor has turned into a legal nightmare for the town, adding $1.3 million to the cost. And what happened?

I guess she was too busy picking books to ban to attend to a tiny detail like whether or not it's actually OK to start building a major city project.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122065537792905483.html

I like this part of the story -
"After Ms. Palin left office, the city decided to take 80 acres of Mr. Lundgren's property through eminent domain. "

Somebody should ask her about her position on private property rights, because her ineptness led to someone's private property being seized by the government.

[NewYorkDragons80]

That rules (Joe Biden, it's not quoting for some reason). Here's my thing, it's one thing to be religious, I could actually care less if someone is, it's another thing to get into kooky "God tells me to pray for this political thing" or "God talks to me" business.

The woman said that the Iraq war was a "Task from God" and that scares the crap outta me.
Here's her quote:
Pray for our military men and women who are striving to do what is right. Also, for this country, that our leaders, our national leaders, are sending [U.S. soldiers] out on a task that is from God. That's what we have to make sure that we're praying for, that there is a plan and that... that plan is God's plan.

In other words, she's asking them to pray for the military and pray that the leadership exercises sound judgment and that the plan they are a part of is based on correct moral guidelines. She's not declaring it, she's hoping for it. If anything, she's sneaking in a subtle dig at Bush with the "praying there's a plan" part.

[IamPixie]

N/m already posted.

[ahhdurr]

Enjoying the thread title.

[ChrisTheCop]

Enjoying the thread title.

Which no longer has anything to do with the topics discussed here...
but yeah, it's funny. So was the original title.

[yojimbo7248]

Good article on Palin's beliefs. Yes, this is from Alternet, the real liberal press, but they have done their research.

http://www.alternet.org/rights/97939/?page=entire

Everyone is free to believe what they want, no matter how out there it is. I think, however, her church's believe in demonic possession of geographichal locations and their talk of international spiritual warfare worrries me. Seeing the world divided between the saved and non-saved can't help but color someone's foreign policy. Palin's worldview, or at least her church's, seem even more unsophisticated than Bush's in breaking down the good guys and bad guys. I am seriously concerned that this woman would be so close to being president if McCain is elected.

[GreatAmericanZero]

Good article on Palin's beliefs. Yes, this is from Alternet, the real liberal press, but they have done their research.

http://www.alternet.org/rights/97939/?page=entire

Everyone is free to believe what they want, no matter how out there it is. I think, however, her church's believe in demonic possession of geographichal locations and their talk of international spiritual warfare worrries me. Seeing the world divided between the saved and non-saved can't help but color someone's foreign policy. Palin's worldview, or at least her church's, seem even more unsophisticated than Bush's in breaking down the good guys and bad guys. I am seriously concerned that this woman would be so close to being president if McCain is elected.

its weird that Obama's crazy church got him endless amounts of bad press, but i never hear the media talk about Palin's crazy church. Yet people will still scream "liberal media" any chance they get

[yojimbo7248]

its weird that Obama's crazy church got him endless amounts of bad press, but i never hear the media talk about Palin's crazy church. Yet people will still scream "liberal media" any chance they get

Yeah, I had no idea until this morning that Palin belongs to the same Christian sect that runs the camp featured in "Jesus Camp". I remember thinking that the characters in that documentary were so foaming at the mouth about Harry Potter and anything even remotely pagan that they have to be actors. I seriously thought it was a Blair Witch-type fake documentary. I found it was true and now this morning I find out that Palin is a member of this offshoot church. I swear, sometimes US politics is like a bad dream.

[Zorro]

Yeah, I had no idea until this morning that Palin belongs to the same Christian sect that runs the camp featured in "Jesus Camp". I remember thinking that the characters in that documentary were so foaming at the mouth about Harry Potter and anything even remotely pagan that they have to be actors. I seriously thought it was a Blair Witch-type fake documentary. I found it was true and now this morning I find out that Palin is a member of this offshoot church. I swear, sometimes US politics is like a bad dream.

...and Joe Biden is a member of a church that ex-communicates divorcees who remarry, considers abortion a mortal sin and opposes equal rights for homosexuals all while its masters ignored the sexual abuse of children....so I'm not so sure church membership is the best way to determine the character of a candidate...

[yojimbo7248]

...and Joe Biden is a member of a church that ex-communicates divorcees who remarry, considers abortion a mortal sin and opposes equal rights for homosexuals all while its masters ignored the sexual abuse of children....so I'm not so sure church membership is the best way to determine the character of a candidate...

good point. I'm no big fan of the Catholic church, either. Biden is definitely a hard-core Catholic. I'm not unrealistic enough to hope for an atheist VP or president in my lifetime. How about a nice lukewarm person that goes to church on Christmas and Easter but doesn't take the bible literally?

[Jujubees2]

...and Joe Biden is a member of a church that ex-communicates divorcees who remarry, considers abortion a mortal sin and opposes equal rights for homosexuals all while its masters ignored the sexual abuse of children....so I'm not so sure church membership is the best way to determine the character of a candidate...

Yeah, but Biden isn't into forcing the Catholic Church's beliefs onto everyone. Even though he is personally against abortion, he has stated that he would not overturn Row v. Wade (though he did vote against federal funding for abortions) and he is in support of stem cell research and federal funds being spent on birth control.

Besides, all you need to do is payoff the church (they use the term annulment) after your divorce and then you can remarry in the church..

[Zorro]

Yeah, but Biden isn't into forcing the Catholic Church's beliefs onto everyone. Even though he is personally against abortion, he has stated that he would not overturn Row v. Wade (though he did vote against federal funding for abortions) and he is in support of stem cell research and federal funds being spent on birth control.

Besides, all you need to do is payoff the church (they use the term annulment) after your divorce and then you can remarry in the church..

So, then your saying his religion is a scam and a scam is more valuable than a strongly held belief?

[DarkHippie]

its weird that Obama's crazy church got him endless amounts of bad press, but i never hear the media talk about Palin's crazy church. Yet people will still scream "liberal media" any chance they get

that's because Palin's is a crazy white people church and obama's is a crazy black people church.

[Jujubees2]

So, then your saying his religion is a scam and a scam is more valuable than a strongly held belief?

No, what I'm saying is that he effectively is able to separate his beliefs with the others who do not share his beliefs.

[epo]

Yeah, but Biden isn't into forcing the Catholic Church's beliefs onto everyone. Even though he is personally against abortion, he has stated that he would not overturn Row v. Wade (though he did vote against federal funding for abortions) and he is in support of stem cell research and federal funds being spent on birth control.

Besides, all you need to do is payoff the church (they use the term annulment) after your divorce and then you can remarry in the church..

Biden did a great job of answering that question on yesterday's Meet the Press.

I guess doing media to answer questions can be a GOOD thing. Hint, hint, nudge, nudge.

[JerseySean]

its weird that Obama's crazy church got him endless amounts of bad press, but i never hear the media talk about Palin's crazy church. Yet people will still scream "liberal media" any chance they get

Do we have video of Palin's pastor screaming God Damn America? If so, it will be as big a deal.

[Zorro]

Biden did a great job of answering that question on yesterday's Meet the Press.

I guess doing media to answer questions can be a GOOD thing. Hint, hint, nudge, nudge.

it's an especially a good thing when they're on your side...

[epo]

I realize that this election is NOT about Governor Sarah Palin. However I must point this out:

This from the Alaska Frontiersman in May of 2000 (http://www.frontiersman.com/articles/2000/05/23/news.txt) while Palin was mayor:

Gov. Tony Knowles recently signed legislation protecting victims of sexual assault from being billed for tests to collect evidence of the crime, but one local police chief said the new law will further burden taxpayers.

While the Alaska State Troopers and most municipal police agencies have covered the cost of exams, which cost between $300 to $1,200 apiece, the Wasilla police department does charge the victims of sexual assault for the tests.

Let me say this again:

The Wasilla police department, under the watch of Mayor Sarah Palin charged the victims of sexual assault for the cost of a rape kit.

Oh my fucking god. I am officially horrified.

[KnoxHarrington]

it's an especially a good thing when they're on your side...

Yeah, I can't believe how the press is hammering Palin because the pastor of her church says nutty things...

Oh wait.

[GreatAmericanZero]

I realize that this election is NOT about Governor Sarah Palin. However I must point this out:

This from the Alaska Frontiersman in May of 2000 (http://www.frontiersman.com/articles/2000/05/23/news.txt) while Palin was mayor:



Let me say this again:

The Wasilla police department, under the watch of Mayor Sarah Palin charged the victims of sexual assault for the cost of a rape kit.

Oh my fucking god. I am officially horrified.

note to self - when in Alaska, only rape really poor chicks. Ones that can't afford the cost of a rape kit

[ChrisTheCop]

I realize that this election is NOT about Governor Sarah Palin. However I must point this out:

This from the Alaska Frontiersman in May of 2000 (http://www.frontiersman.com/articles/2000/05/23/news.txt) while Palin was mayor:



Let me say this again:

The Wasilla police department, under the watch of Mayor Sarah Palin charged the victims of sexual assault for the cost of a rape kit.

Oh my fucking god. I am officially horrified.

Well, somebody has to pay for them. It's just not tax payers in this instance.

It's just like if you get beat up with a bat in a bar, for example, who pays for your surgery, xrays, and other exams? You and your insurance company do. Government does not exist to take care of every little thing for us.

[epo]

Well, somebody has to pay for them. It's just not tax payers in this instance.

It's just like if you get beat up with a bat in a bar, for example, who pays for your surgery, xrays, and other exams? You and your insurance company do. Government does not exist to take care of every little thing for us.

Rape kits? Come on.

That's not even a comparison.

[Tenbatsuzen]

Rape kits

and Crawlspace, 3-7, XM-202!

[Tenbatsuzen]

Oh my fucking god. I am officially horrified.

The only thing is, you may want to take a look at how much rape is going on in Wasila. As there's only 9000 people, I'm going to guess rapes/sex assaults never happened there.

[epo]

The only thing is, you may want to take a look at how much rape is going on in Wasila. As there's only 9000 people, I'm going to guess rapes/sex assaults never happened there.

That place has to be like the Wild West!

[Tenbatsuzen]

Rape kits? Come on.

That's not even a comparison.

Here's a fair comparison...

If there was a murder, do you expect the government to pay for the casket?

[Tenbatsuzen]

That place has to be like the Wild West!

You called down the thunder, well now you got it...

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/5h1o3JaYSNU&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/5h1o3JaYSNU&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

YOU TELL 'EM I'M COMING, AND HELLS COMING WITH ME!!

[epo]

Here's a fair comparison...

If there was a murder, do you expect the government to pay for the casket?

That is an interesting philosophical question. I'll have to think about that.

[ChrisTheCop]

Here's a fair comparison...

If there was a murder, do you expect the government to pay for the casket?

Not without precedent; Mayor Dinkins would say yes.

*see: Kiko Garcia

[Tenbatsuzen]

Not without precedent; Mayor Dinkins would say yes.

*see: Kiko Garcia

Yeah, and he was savaged for that. Point is, you're right, rape kits are usually covered by insurance, but it was an expense not figured into the Wasilla budget because rapes don't happen there.

[Tenbatsuzen]

Besides, how can you rape a chick in Alaska? By the time you've gotten through the 19 parkas she's wearing, you've lost your rod.

[ChrisTheCop]

Besides, how can you rape a chick in Alaska? By the time you've gotten through the 19 parkas she's wearing, you've lost your rod.

19? If she didnt wanna get raped, she shudda been wearing 20.

Slut.

[Tenbatsuzen]

19? If she didnt wanna get raped, she shudda been wearing 20.

Slut.

Does the Rape Prevention Prevention class have a special unit on Alaska?

[ChrisTheCop]

Does the Rape Prevention Prevention class have a special unit on Alaska?

That should be government subsidized.

[Fallon]

That should be government subsidized.

Is Alaska a state?

[epo]

Too long.

[PapaBear]

Is Alaska a state?
No. It's a [air quote]State[/air quote].

[Fez4PrezN2008]

Well, somebody has to pay for them. It's just not tax payers in this instance.

It's just like if you get beat up with a bat in a bar, for example, who pays for your surgery, xrays, and other exams? You and your insurance company do. Government does not exist to take care of every little thing for us.
I bet Paulin wishes she had apropriated some funds to buy Bristol an EPT and some rubbers in this year's budget. :tongue:

[ChrisTheCop]

I bet Paulin wishes she had apropriated some funds to buy Bristol an EPT and some rubbers in this year's budget. :tongue:

Another valiant effort to bring this thread back on topic.

(but the regs aint havin it!)

"Or were you just tryin to find a way to mention me-he-he???"
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g198/PaulLyndeFanSite2/PaulLynde07f.jpg

[HBox]

Yeah, and he was savaged for that. Point is, you're right, rape kits are usually covered by insurance, but it was an expense not figured into the Wasilla budget because rapes don't happen there.

They could just ask for an earmark to pay for it. They get earmarks for every fucking thing they ask for up there.

[frye hole]

Well, somebody has to pay for them. It's just not tax payers in this instance.

It's just like if you get beat up with a bat in a bar, for example, who pays for your surgery, xrays, and other exams? You and your insurance company do. Government does not exist to take care of every little thing for us.

Are you out of your fucking mind? A rape kit is "a set of items used by medical personnel for gathering and preserving physical evidence". Its not FOR the victim its to help SOLVE the crime. Why should the victim pay for it?

Should we bill a murder victim's family for all those forensics tests they do to solve the crime?

I can't stand it when people who reduce everything to "the government taking care of every little thing...."

[angrymissy]

The only thing is, you may want to take a look at how much rape is going on in Wasila. As there's only 9000 people, I'm going to guess rapes/sex assaults never happened there.

http://www.city-data.com/city/Wasilla-Alaska.html

They have 1-3 reported rapes a year. They don't have a sex assault data line, but I'm sure there's plenty of that too.

Look at the crime stats (US average ranges from 180-250 depending on year, the higher number, the more crime per capita). In 2005, Wasilla's crime index was 639.9. Compare that to 2005 NYC rate 285.2. Per capita, they have more crime than NYC.

[Jujubees2]

To chance the subject a bit, what are the odds that Bristol doesn't marry the hockey guy if Mom doesn't get elected?

[Zorro]

http://www.city-data.com/city/Wasilla-Alaska.html

They have 1-3 reported rapes a year. They don't have a sex assault data line, but I'm sure there's plenty of that too.

Look at the crime stats (US average ranges from 180-250 depending on year, the higher number, the more crime per capita). In 2005, Wasilla's crime index was 639.9. Compare that to 2005 NYC rate 285.2. Per capita, they have more crime than NYC.

Next they'll accuse her of actually commiting the rapes...

[TheMojoPin]

That is an interesting philosophical question. I'll have to think about that.

That's pretty generous to a really inane comparison. A rape kit is ideally used to solve the goddamn crime...how is a casket similarly comparable?

[Jujubees2]

Are you out of your fucking mind? A rape kit is "a set of items used by medical personnel for gathering and preserving physical evidence". Its not FOR the victim its to help SOLVE the crime. Why should the victim pay for it?

Should we bill a murder victim's family for all those forensics tests they do to solve the crime?

I can't stand it when people who reduce everything to "the government taking care of every little thing...."

I agree. A rape kit is not a medical procedure. It's to gather evidence and therefore should be paid for by the city/state. What if an insurance company declined to pay for the procedure since it is not a medical necessity?

[NewYorkDragons80]

In 2005, Wasilla's crime index was 639.9. Compare that to 2005 NYC rate 285.2. Per capita, they have more crime than NYC.
Impossible!
Races in Wasilla:

* White Non-Hispanic (83.9%)
* American Indian (9.1%)
* Two or more races (5.9%)
* Hispanic (3.7%)
* Other race (1.3%)
* Black (0.6%)

[IMSlacker]

I'm sure they spent all of the rape kit money on pre-natal care for the rape babies the victims were forced to keep.

[Freitag]

To chance the subject a bit, what are the odds that Bristol doesn't marry the hockey guy if Mom doesn't get elected?

I already said this - they aren't getting married until after the baby is born, and if Mom isn't elected, they ain't getting married. Unless they actually love each other.

I'll put it like this:

Odds of marrying if Mom is elected: 100%

Odds of marying if Mom isn't elected:40%

Odds of marriage with no election lasting more than 5 years: 10%

[Freitag]

Next they'll accuse her of actually commiting the rapes...

She does have that Crazy Teacher look going on.

[A.J.]

Unless they actually love each other.

I loved a girl when I was high school age.

I wonder where she is now.

[Freitag]

I loved a girl when I was high school age.

I wonder where she is now.

Check your backyard.

[TheMojoPin]

I loved a girl when I was high school age.

I wonder where she is now.

She's probably finally in high school, you creep.

[A.J.]

She's probably finally in high school, you creep.

http://img2.timeinc.net/ew/dynamic/imgs/060907/123046__dazed_l.jpg

But my point was what do high school age kids know about love.

[Knowledged_one]

http://www.city-data.com/city/Wasilla-Alaska.html

They have 1-3 reported rapes a year. They don't have a sex assault data line, but I'm sure there's plenty of that too.

Look at the crime stats (US average ranges from 180-250 depending on year, the higher number, the more crime per capita). In 2005, Wasilla's crime index was 639.9. Compare that to 2005 NYC rate 285.2. Per capita, they have more crime than NYC.

this is said tounge in cheek right?

[angrymissy]

this is said tounge in cheek right?

It's 100% correct.

Per Capita, Wasilla has a higher incidence of crime when compared to New York City.

You are statistically more likely to be a victim of crime in Wasilla.

[Knowledged_one]

Ok, you are correct but what about violent crimes or person to person crimes?

I mean you are right with the numbers but they are a tad misleading to say NY is safer isnt it?

[DolaMight]

I'm sure this has been posed already but I don't have the patience to read through 37 pages of Wasilla crime statistics debate to find out.

either way a newsweek article debunking a few of the more popular Palin attacks:
Summary
We've been flooded for the past few days with queries about dubious Internet postings and mass e-mail messages making claims about McCain's running mate, Gov. Palin. We find that many are completely false, or misleading.

Palin did not cut funding for special needs education in Alaska by 62 percent. She didn't cut it at all. In fact, she tripled per-pupil funding over just three years.

She did not demand that books be banned from the Wasilla library. Some of the books on a widely circulated list were not even in print at the time. The librarian has said Palin asked a "What if?" question, but the librarian continued in her job through most of Palin's first term.

She was never a member of the Alaskan Independence Party, a group that wants Alaskans to vote on whether they wish to secede from the United States. She's been registered as a Republican since May 1982.

Palin never endorsed or supported Pat Buchanan for president. She once wore a Buchanan button as a "courtesy" when he visited Wasilla, but shortly afterward she was appointed to co-chair of the campaign of Steve Forbes in the state.

Palin has not pushed for teaching creationism in Alaska's schools. She has said that students should be allowed to "debate both sides" of the evolution question, but she also said creationism "doesn't have to be part of the curriculum."

We'll be looking into other charges in an e-mail by a woman named Anne Kilkenny for a future story. For more explanation of the bullet points above, please read the Analysis.

full article with more detail and topless photo of Gub Palin:
http://www.newsweek.com/id/157986

[Ritalin]

I loved a girl when I was high school age.

I wonder where she is now.

Check your crawlspace.

Fixed

[angrymissy]

Ok, you are correct but what about violent crimes or person to person crimes?

I mean you are right with the numbers but they are a tad misleading to say NY is safer isnt it?

How is it misleading? If you look at the links, yes, violent crimes.

You are statistically more likely to be raped in Wasilla.

[angrymissy]

I'm sure this has been posed already but I don't have the patience to read through 37 pages of Wasilla crime statistics debate to find out.

either way a newsweek article debunking a few of the more popular Palin attacks:


full article with more detail and topless photo of Gub Palin:
http://www.newsweek.com/id/157986

Yeah, if you read the details though on the following pages, some of the issues are very open to interpretation (he said, she said), especially regarding the book banning and AIP. While most of it is rumor garbage similar to what was put out against Obama, some of it concerns me still.

[hammersavage]

How is it misleading? If you look at the links, yes, violent crimes.

You are statistically more likely to be raped in Wasilla.

And twice as likely if you're asking for it.

[angrymissy]

And twice as likely if you're asking for it.

She had rubbed herself in whale fat and was wearing a wolf pelt! Slut deserved it!

[Zorro]

Yeah, if you read the details though on the following pages, some of the issues are very open to interpretation (he said, she said), especially regarding the book banning and AIP. While most of it is rumor garbage similar to what was put out against Obama, some of it concerns me still.

The problem with all this stuff is that since there's so much bullshit the real issues will just get tossed in and we'll never know the truth. Americans are not people of nuance. It's all just going to look like attack politics. People will line up on either side like they always do and the facts won't matter. Unless of course she says something really stupid or blows the debate.

[angrymissy]

The problem with all this stuff is that since there's so much bullshit the real issues will just get tossed in and we'll never know the truth. Americans are not people of nuance. It's all just going to look like attack politics. People will line up on either side like they always do and the facts won't matter. Unless of course she says something really stupid or blows the debate.

Yes, and that is what scares me.

Case A:
Say to me: I want to vote McCain/Palin (or Obama/Biden) because after researching their politics, I found they support this this and this, and that is in line with my beliefs and how I want this country to be run. I might not agree with you - but I will respect your decision.

Case B:
Say to me: I want to vote McCain/Palin because Palin hunts Moose, and is a tough hockey mom! Don't have vagina envy! Besides, I heard Obama is a covert Muslim who was sworn in on the Koran.

Say to me: I want to vote Obama/Biden because Obama is going to Change things! Change change change! Also, he can play basketball! Besides, I heard that McCain eats babies for breakfast.

I will think you are a fucking idiot.

I think most of the country is Case B (applying to Obama voters OR McCain voters)

[yojimbo7248]

She had rubbed herself in whale fat and was wearing a wolf pelt! Slut deserved it!

I am so tired of the misperceptions about the great state of Alaska. She most likely rubbed herself in seal fat and wore a bear pelt. Jeesh.

[IMSlacker]

Wait, Palin hunts moose? Now I have to re-think everything!

[angrymissy]

I am so tired of the misperceptions about the great state of Alaska. She most likely rubbed herself in seal fat and wore a bear pelt. Jeesh.

Harder to kill a bear for the pelt = harder to rape, I'd stay away from that one.

[Jujubees2]

http://img2.timeinc.net/ew/dynamic/imgs/060907/123046__dazed_l.jpg

But my point was what do high school age kids know about love.

What does anyone know about love?

[ChrisTheCop]

Are you out of your fucking mind? A rape kit is "a set of items used by medical personnel for gathering and preserving physical evidence". Its not FOR the victim its to help SOLVE the crime. Why should the victim pay for it?

Should we bill a murder victim's family for all those forensics tests they do to solve the crime?

I can't stand it when people who reduce everything to "the government taking care of every little thing...."

First, hello. Second, I know we didnt all get formal training on how to debate, but I believe your post breaks a rule or two. Obscenities and name calling, let alone bold type are not necessary to get your points across. You make a good point, but because of the presentation, I'm gonna say: FAIL. Third, I also cant stand when people reduce everything to the government taking care of every little thing, but that is increasingly our problem in America, that that is expected.

A rape kit is not a medical procedure. It's to gather evidence and therefore should be paid for by the city/state. What if an insurance company declined to pay for the procedure since it is not a medical necessity?

A good point, well made.

To change the subject a bit, what are the odds that Bristol doesn't marry the hockey guy if Mom doesn't get elected?

This doesnt change the subject, Bristol IS the subject of this thread, regardless of constant sidetracks. :wacko:

[frye hole]

First, hello. Second, I know we didnt all get formal training on how to debate, but I believe your post breaks a rule or two. Obscenities and name calling, let alone bold type are not necessary to get your points across. You make a good point, but because of the presentation, I'm gonna say: FAIL. Third, I also cant stand when people reduce everything to the government taking care of every little thing, but that is increasingly our problem in America, that that is expected.


I apologize for the first line of my post but there was nothing wrong with the rest of it. It blew my mind that people were acting like the government supplying a kit to gather evidence of a rape was some sort of entitlement! I kept thinking of a woman going through the horror of being raped and then being asked for her credit card to pay for the kit. I'm surprised none of the women on the board were offended. And if this is true in Alaska, where they have a budget surplus then its outrageous. But since I haven't seen it anywhere else I'll wait and see.....

[Tenbatsuzen]

Yes, and that is what scares me.

Case A:
Say to me: I want to vote McCain/Palin (or Obama/Biden) because after researching their politics, I found they support this this and this, and that is in line with my beliefs and how I want this country to be run. I might not agree with you - but I will respect your decision.

Case B:
Say to me: I want to vote McCain/Palin because Palin hunts Moose, and is a tough hockey mom! Don't have vagina envy! Besides, I heard Obama is a covert Muslim who was sworn in on the Koran.

Say to me: I want to vote Obama/Biden because Obama is going to Change things! Change change change! Also, he can play basketball! Besides, I heard that McCain eats babies for breakfast.

I will think you are a fucking idiot.

I think most of the country is Case B (applying to Obama voters OR McCain voters)

I believe in Case E, but that would make me poor for a week.

[Jujubees2]

I believe in Case E, but that would make me poor for a week.

Booooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo :help:

[scottinnj]

The Right says it's false (http://michellemalkin.com/2008/09/06/the-bogus-sarah-palin-banned-books-list/).


The Left says it's true (http://airamerica.com/blog/2008/sep/02/sarah-palin-wanted-ban-books-library).


Both are referencing a Time online article HERE (http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1837918,00.html).

Stein says that as mayor, Palin continued to inject religious beliefs into her policy at times. "She asked the library how she could go about banning books," he says, because some voters thought they had inappropriate language in them. "The librarian was aghast." That woman, Mary Ellen Baker, couldn't be reached for comment, but news reports from the time show that Palin had threatened to fire Baker for not giving "full support" to the mayor.

That's the only mention of this in the Time article. A story from a political opponent, with no references excepty to say there are "news reports"

I'm finding myself to be more and more skeptical of this, especially with this bogus list of books-a couple of the Harry Potter books on this list to be banned hadn't even been written when she was mayor. In fact, according to Amazon, the first Harry Potter came out in 1998-two years after she was elected mayor and removed the employees out of the office she felt were loyal to Stein.


Edit: Apparantly according the Frontiersman who posted the original story from 1996 (http://www.frontiersman.com/articles/2008/09/09/breaking_news/doc48c1c8a60d6d9379155484.txt), a discussion took place but not list was made or job threatened.

[HBox]

The Right says it's false (http://michellemalkin.com/2008/09/06/the-bogus-sarah-palin-banned-books-list/).


The Left says it's true (http://airamerica.com/blog/2008/sep/02/sarah-palin-wanted-ban-books-library).


Both are referencing a Time online article HERE (http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1837918,00.html).



That's the only mention of this in the Time article. A story from a political opponent, with no references excepty to say there are "news reports"

I'm finding myself to be more and more skeptical of this, especially with this bogus list of books-a couple of the Harry Potter books on this list to be banned hadn't even been written when she was mayor. In fact, according to Amazon, the first Harry Potter came out in 1998-two years after she was elected mayor and removed the employees out of the office she felt were loyal to Stein.

She asked the librarian if she would be open to banning books. Librarian said no. Librarian was fired. Community outrage quickly got librarian rehired. That's what happened. Both sides are trying to pull this story in different directions.

[scottinnj]

She asked the librarian if she would be open to banning books. Librarian said no. Librarian was fired. Community outrage quickly got librarian rehired. That's what happened. Both sides are trying to pull this story in different directions.

Go read my edit. I got the link from the Frontiersman, who reprinted the story from 1996.

From the librarian:

“I'm hoping it was just a trial balloon,” Emmons said, “because the free exchange of information is my main job, and I'll fight anyone who tries to interfere with that.”


She said that to the paper in an interview two months after the conversation, and was still librarian. In fact, the story became public because of Palin:

The issue became public last Wednesday, when Palin brought it up during an interview about the now-defunct Liquor task Force. Palin used the library topic as an example of discussions with her department heads about understanding and following administration agendas.

I'm really not trusting this story anymore. The way it is written in the paper, it sounds like Palin was pressing the librarian on how far she would go.

Again, no mention of any particular book, or that Emmons was fired as a result of this. When was Emmons fired, anyway?

[JerseySean]

Go read my edit. I got the link from the Frontiersman, who reprinted the story from 1996.

From the librarian:



She said that to the paper in an interview two months after the conversation, and was still librarian. In fact, the story became public because of Palin:



I'm really not trusting this story anymore. The way it is written in the paper, it sounds like Palin was pressing the librarian on how far she would go.

Again, no mention of any particular book, or that Emmons was fired as a result of this. When was Emmons fired, anyway?

The bottom line is that Palin wanted total control over what happened with Wasilla government. There was no book banning or anything of the sort, it was just a power play. Clearly, the people of Wasilla liked the way she governed when she took over.

[Dudeman]

Clearly, the people of Wasilla liked the way she governed when she took over.

i could give a shit what those 9000 freeks thought:smile:

[HBox]

Go read my edit. I got the link from the Frontiersman, who reprinted the story from 1996.

From the librarian:



She said that to the paper in an interview two months after the conversation, and was still librarian. In fact, the story became public because of Palin:



I'm really not trusting this story anymore. The way it is written in the paper, it sounds like Palin was pressing the librarian on how far she would go.

Again, no mention of any particular book, or that Emmons was fired as a result of this. When was Emmons fired, anyway?

Here's the story from a local resident as printed in the Anchorage Daily News;

She's not very tolerant of divergent opinions or open to outside ideas or compromise. As Mayor, she fought ideas that weren't generated by her or her staff. Ideas weren't evaluated on their merits, but on the basis of who proposed them.

While Sarah was Mayor of Wasilla she tried to fire our highly respected City Librarian because the Librarian refused to consider removing from the library some books that Sarah wanted removed. City residents rallied to the defense of the City Librarian and against Palin's attempt at out-and-out censorship, so Palin backed down and withdrew her termination letter. People who fought her attempt to oust the Librarian are on her enemies list to this day.

Link here. (http://community.adn.com/adn/node/130537)

[Fez4PrezN2008]

I loved a girl when I was high school age.

I wonder where she is now.
Do you know what she named the kid? AJ Jr. ? That has nice ring to it...

[JerseySean]

Here's the story from a local resident as printed in the Anchorage Daily News;



Link here. (http://community.adn.com/adn/node/130537)

1/9000 and an active Democratic Party official

[A.J.]

Do you know what she named the kid? AJ Jr. ? That has nice ring to it...

Please don't scare me with that kind of talk.

[hammersavage]

If this 'Lipstick on a Pig' thing gets any more play, I'm gonna kill myself.

"Last October, asked about Sen. Hillary Clinton's health care plan, Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., was blunt. McCain said Clinton's proposal was "eerily" similar to the ill-fated plan she devised in 1993. "I think they put some lipstick on a pig," he said, "but it's still a pig."A common expression, right? McCain surely wasn't calling Clinton a pig. After all, McCain's former press secretary, Torie Clarke, wrote a book called "Lipstick on a Pig: Winning in the No-Spin Era." Elizabeth Edwards told some health journalists that McCain's health care plan was like "painting lipstick on a pig."

Tonight Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., said of McCain painting himself as a change agent, "You know, you can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig." ... "You can wrap an old fish in a piece of paper called 'change,'" Obama continued, "it's still gonna stink after eight years. We've had enough of the same old thing! It's time to bring about real change to Washington. And that's the choice you've got in this election."



The McCain campaign called Obama's comments "disgraceful" and demanded an apology. The campaign added that Obama, in addition to calling Palin a pig, might have also been calling John McCain a fish, which, of course, would also require an apology.

The media seems to find all of this fascinating, as if use of an old American expression, utilized by all kinds of political candidates from both parties for generations, might be some kind of sexist insult -- not when McCain used it to slam Hillary Clinton, but only when Obama used it to criticize the Republican campaign in general.

It's honestly like being stuck in a "Twilight Zone" episode in which reality has no meaning at all.

Obama campaign senior advisor Anita Dunn said, "Enough is enough. The McCain campaign's attack tonight is a pathetic attempt to play the gender card about the use of a common analogy – the same analogy that Senator McCain himself used about Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton's health care plan just last year. This phony lecture on gender sensitivity is the height of cynicism and lays bare the increasingly dishonorable campaign John McCain has chosen to run."

[Zorro]

If this 'Lipstick on a Pig' thing gets any more play, I'm gonna kill myself.

Barack is about to address the issue...

[ChrisTheCop]

Whereas it may be a "common" expression (?), I think the timing of its use is suspect.
I dont think it's out of bounds, but I do believe Barack knew his use of a lipstick phrase would be compared to Palin's lipstick phrase, and to say that any linkage of the two is preposterous is...preposterous. -1 for Obama camp.

Then I hear republicans saying "AND!" he meant McCain is a fish! ... -1 for McCain.

It's a draw.

[Recyclerz]

Whereas it may be a "common" expression (?), I think the timing of its use is suspect.
I dont think it's out of bounds, but I do believe Barack knew his use of a lipstick phrase would be compared to Palin's lipstick phrase, and to say that any linkage of the two is preposterous is...preposterous. -1 for Obama camp.

Then I hear republicans saying "AND!" he meant McCain is a fish! ... -1 for McCain.

It's a draw.

I'm not sure I agree with Chris' analysis here. I think that Obama's intention here was to "change the story" in the mainstream media of how super-duper ultra amazing Sarah Palin is by throwing a little chin music against the Palin/McCain (seemingly) campaign. By breaking the equilibrium I think they get the chance to refocus on the swift-boating bullshit coming out of the Republican shop and also get to point out the mischaracterizations (i.e. lies) of Palin's record as a reformer or maverick. Plus, by going a little bit over the line (maybe) he rallies his troops by showing he's not going to sit there and take it a la Kerry in 2004.

I'd be interested in reading Epo's take on this.

[TheMojoPin]

Hillary needs to be rolled out so she can remind everyone that McCain used the very same phrase about her.

[Zorro]

I'm not sure I agree with Chris' analysis here. I think that Obama's intention here was to "change the story" in the mainstream media of how super-duper ultra amazing Sarah Palin is by throwing a little chin music against the Palin/McCain (seemingly) campaign. By breaking the equilibrium I think they get the chance to refocus on the swift-boating bullshit coming out of the Republican shop and also get to point out the mischaracterizations (i.e. lies) of Palin's record as a reformer or maverick. Plus, by going a little bit over the line (maybe) he rallies his troops by showing he's not going to sit there and take it a la Kerry in 2004.

I'd be interested in reading Epo's take on this.

Isn't this the same stuff the Obama people did to Bill Clinton?

[TheMojoPin]

Isn't this the same stuff the Obama people did to Bill Clinton?

I had no idea explicitly and negatively comparing (fearmongering) the only black candidate with a shot at winning the nod to the only other black candidate who had a shot was just a common colloquialism that could be used as a clever flip on inane GOP sloganeering.

[Furtherman]

She's not very tolerant of divergent opinions or open to outside ideas or compromise. As Mayor, she fought ideas that weren't generated by her or her staff. Ideas weren't evaluated on their merits, but on the basis of who proposed them.

http://files.blog-city.com/files/M05/127853/p/f/bush_thumbs_up.jpg

[GreatAmericanZero]

this is what annoys me about politics


The liberals are the politically correct party. But the conservatives use the tool of "political correctness" to call Obama out on having a "sexist" comment with his "pig with lipstick" line. But the conservatives are suppose to be the non-politically correct people

Its all a bunch of hypocritical bullshit


The republicans and the democrats fighting with eachother is like the person in a messageboard arguement that goes "I hate you, I'm never going to talk to you again, and YOU take the internet too SEROIUSLY!"

[epo]

I'm not sure I agree with Chris' analysis here. I think that Obama's intention here was to "change the story" in the mainstream media of how super-duper ultra amazing Sarah Palin is by throwing a little chin music against the Palin/McCain (seemingly) campaign. By breaking the equilibrium I think they get the chance to refocus on the swift-boating bullshit coming out of the Republican shop and also get to point out the mischaracterizations (i.e. lies) of Palin's record as a reformer or maverick. Plus, by going a little bit over the line (maybe) he rallies his troops by showing he's not going to sit there and take it a la Kerry in 2004.

I'd be interested in reading Epo's take on this.

It's an weird situation.

In my opinion the Obama campaign was trying to "flip" the lipstick remark to make the point that McCain/Palin are selling "the same ol' shit". By being cute they probably thought they could in fact steal the headlines from how neat Palin is. (Even though....we're still waiting for that *tough* Charlie Gibson interview.)

Did Obama mean that Palin was a pig and McCain was a fish? No...that's just stupid. He obviously was talking about the McCain campaign offering nothing substantively different than Bush...hence the pig.

However, give credit to the McCain campaign for their new "rapid response" team. They did a nice job of twisting the story. This did give them a night of the news cycle. The danger of this however is "crying wolf" too many times before it matters and killing the tactic when they'll really need it. We've got 54 days until election...which makes this a card they can't play very often.

The "pig" comment won't realistically matter if Obama/Biden can turn the political discussion into the selling of "the same ol' shit".

[Ritalin]

It's an weird situation.

In my opinion the Obama campaign was trying to "flip" the lipstick remark to make the point that McCain/Palin are selling "the same ol' shit". By being cute they probably thought they could in fact steal the headlines from how neat Palin is. (Even though....we're still waiting for that *tough* Charlie Gibson interview.)

Did Obama mean that Palin was a pig and McCain was a fish? No...that's just stupid. He obviously was talking about the McCain campaign offering nothing substantively different than Bush...hence the pig.

However, give credit to the McCain campaign for their new "rapid response" team. They did a nice job of twisting the story. This did give them a night of the news cycle. The danger of this however is "crying wolf" too many times before it matters and killing the tactic when they'll really need it. We've got 54 days until election...which makes this a card they can't play very often.

The "pig" comment won't realistically matter if Obama/Biden can turn the political discussion into the selling of "the same ol' shit".

I think McCain's people overplayed their hand on this one. If you want to look tough and maverick-y, moose hunter and POW, then you can't stir shit and go all whiny because you think someone called you a name. I think people know that Obama wasn't calling anyone a pig, and I think McCain looks silly and disingenuous trying to pretend like he thinks he did.

[mikeyboy]

I think McCain's people overplayed their hand on this one. If you want to look tough and maverick-y, moose hunter and POW, then you can't stir shit and go all whiny because you think someone called you a name. I think people know that Obama wasn't calling anyone a pig, and I think McCain looks silly and disingenuous trying to pretend like he thinks he did.

The problem is that there's a segment of population that is pretty uninformed, and it's these kinds of soundbites that will inform their decisions. Of course, many of these people are the ones voting the way they are because "Obama is a muslim" or "Sarah Palin's slut daughter had a retarded baby and her mom is raising it as her own, so maybe it won't have that much effect.

[IamPixie]

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/anxkrm9uEJk&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/anxkrm9uEJk&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[Bossanova]

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/anxkrm9uEJk&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/anxkrm9uEJk&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

I love him more now than ever

[SatCam]

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so wise and so hot


the whole package:king:

[DolaMight]

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I tried to listen but all I could hear was "I'm fucking Sarah Palin, I’m sorry but it’s true"..."On the bed, on the floor, on a towel by the door, in the tub, in the car, up against the mini-bar, I'm fucking Sarah Palin"

[scottinnj]

Here's the story from a local resident as printed in the Anchorage Daily News;



Link here. (http://community.adn.com/adn/node/130537)

Thanks for this link. I'm sending it to my sister-when I'm off the board, a good political discussion between her and me is very satisfying.

[scottinnj]

If this 'Lipstick on a Pig' thing gets any more play, I'm gonna kill myself.

QFT-this whole thing is making me sick to my stomach, and I cooked tonight.

[GreatAmericanZero]

if it was a presidential race between Matt Damon and Ben Affleck, id vote for Matt Damon

[ChrisTheCop]

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Matt Diddy?

I like him cuz he's a fellow Sox fan, but I just cant take political "advice" from the guy who (almost) ruined Saving Private Ryan for me.

[JerseySean]

The problem is that there's a segment of population that is pretty uninformed, and it's these kinds of soundbites that will inform their decisions. Of course, many of these people are the ones voting the way they are because "Obama is a muslim" or "Sarah Palin's slut daughter had a retarded baby and her mom is raising it as her own, so maybe it won't have that much effect.

I disagree with you a bit. I think some women will legitamately take offense to that. It isnt a matter of being uninformed for SOME. It is a matter of them truly thinking that he was going after HER. It seems to me like it was a poor choice of words, not intentional but to some, they will see it as intentional. His comments on Letterman tonight didnt help either.

[YourAmishDaddy]

This Matt Damon... Seems like a smart guy. He actually gets it.

[A.J.]

The problem is that there's a segment of population that is pretty uninformed, and it's these kinds of soundbites that will inform their decisions.

A very LARGE segment.

[Ritalin]

if it was a presidential race between Matt Damon and Ben Affleck, id vote for Matt Damon

Affleck's got worse plugs than Biden.

[Ritalin]

The problem is that there's a segment of population that is pretty uninformed, and it's these kinds of soundbites that will inform their decisions. Of course, many of these people are the ones voting the way they are because "Obama is a muslim" or "Sarah Palin's slut daughter had a retarded baby and her mom is raising it as her own, so maybe it won't have that much effect.

I disagree with you a bit. I think some women will legitamately take offense to that. It isnt a matter of being uninformed for SOME. It is a matter of them truly thinking that he was going after HER. It seems to me like it was a poor choice of words, not intentional but to some, they will see it as intentional. His comments on Letterman tonight didnt help either.

Right, uninformed. This is an example of the Right erasing the line between fact and fiction. Anybody who saw the video of Obama using the "Lipstick/Pig" line would realize immediately that he wasn't referring to Palin, but people are being encouraged to rationalize that "if I THINK it's true then it is true". It's a logical fallacy.

It shows right there where you say that they "truly think" he was going after her. That is a meaningless phrase in relation to the truth or the facts. As long as you "truly think" something as a Republican, that makes it so. You can "truly think" that Saddam was involved in 9/11. You can "truly think" there were weapons of mass destruction.

Then you can "truly think" that Palin was against the Bridge to Nowhere, you can "truly think" she is against earmark and pork, and now you can "truly think" that Obama called her a pig.

[Drunky McBetidont]

how many people listen to rush limbaugh? isn't it something like 30 million??? :wallbash: i put the am radio on in the car yesterday on my way home and heard about 45 seconds before i became physically ill and turned the radio off. then i had a headache and nausea till after midnight. the fucking people calling in with their self righteous hate and banter is unbelievable. sycophants and hypocrites are goose-stepping over this land.

i am going to move to mars. doctor manhattan was right. this place is doomed and i am not up for watching it all go down.:down:

[JerseySean]

Right, uninformed. This is an example of the Right erasing the line between fact and fiction. Anybody who saw the video of Obama using the "Lipstick/Pig" line would realize immediately that he wasn't referring to Palin, but people are being encouraged to rationalize that "if I THINK it's true then it is true". It's a logical fallacy.

It shows right there where you say that they "truly think" he was going after her. That is a meaningless phrase in relation to the truth or the facts. As long as you "truly think" something as a Republican, that makes it so. You can "truly think" that Saddam was involved in 9/11. You can "truly think" there were weapons of mass destruction.

Then you can "truly think" that Palin was against the Bridge to Nowhere, you can "truly think" she is against earmark and pork, and now you can "truly think" that Obama called her a pig.

Yes, but it isnt like the comment was just a comment. There was a clear connection made EVEN in his audience between his comment and the Palin line from the RNC. Again, I think it was a fuck up, but it was a fuck up and there is a basis for it.

[Furtherman]

how many people listen to rush limbaugh? isn't it something like 30 million???

Half that.

So that's only 15 million Americans who take advice from a pill head. It's not that bad.

[Furtherman]

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Spot on the money.

Imagine a meeting of Palin and Putin? Holy shit.

[NewYorkDragons80]

Matt Diddy?

I like him cuz he's a fellow Sox fan, but I just cant take political "advice" from the guy who (almost) ruined Saving Private Ryan for me.
http://www.libertyfilmfestival.com/libertas/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/damon-team-america.jpg

It sounds like Matt Damon has succumbed to the politics of fear, he's "terrified" of everything.

To answer his question, Sarah Palin never banned a single book, nor did she try to (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/09/09/politics/animal/main4430259.shtml).

Does she believe dinosaurs existed 4,000 years ago? Most likely not (http://dwb.adn.com/news/politics/elections/story/8347904p-8243554c.html).

Finally, EVERYONE is talking about Sarah Palin and debating her qualifications to be president. Why did he say nobody is talking about it? He is not the lone guy asking questions, nor is he brave, he's just a guy with opinions. No more, no less.

[Zorro]

http://www.libertyfilmfestival.com/libertas/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/damon-team-america.jpg

It sounds like Matt Damon has succumbed to the politics of fear, he's "terrified" of everything.

To answer his question, Sarah Palin never banned a single book, nor did she try to (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/09/09/politics/animal/main4430259.shtml).

Does she believe dinosaurs existed 4,000 years ago? Most likely not (http://dwb.adn.com/news/politics/elections/story/8347904p-8243554c.html).

Finally, EVERYONE is talking about Sarah Palin and debating her qualifications to be president. Why did he say nobody is talking about it? He is not the lone guy asking questions, nor is he brave, he's just a guy with opinions. No more, no less.


You miss the point....when your rich, good looking and a movie star your opinion counts more than others. As an aside...he's a citizen taxpayer and has just as much right to express and opinion as anyone else.

[foodcourtdruide]

http://www.libertyfilmfestival.com/libertas/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/damon-team-america.jpg

It sounds like Matt Damon has succumbed to the politics of fear, he's "terrified" of everything.

To answer his question, Sarah Palin never banned a single book, nor did she try to (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/09/09/politics/animal/main4430259.shtml).

Does she believe dinosaurs existed 4,000 years ago? Most likely not (http://dwb.adn.com/news/politics/elections/story/8347904p-8243554c.html).

Finally, EVERYONE is talking about Sarah Palin and debating her qualifications to be president. Why did he say nobody is talking about it? He is not the lone guy asking questions, nor is he brave, he's just a guy with opinions. No more, no less.


"Time reported last week, for example, that Palin asked the Wasilla librarian, Mary Ellen Baker, about the process for banning books. Baker was reportedly "aghast" at the question. Soon after taking office, Palin, according to a New York Times report, fired Baker, and news reports from the time indicate that Palin thought Baker hadn't done enough to give her "full support" to the mayor.

Palin reversed course on Baker's dismissal after a local outcry, and later said the discussions about banning books were "rhetorical.""

She never banned a single book, but to say she never tried too? I don't know. Asking about banning books, then firing the librarian on for not being on her side (she later rehired her after public outcry)? Hmm. I don't think you can spin this as not being a scary thing. As the article you posted asks... "Why did Palin broach the subject of book-banning if she had no intention of trying to ban books?"

[DolaMight]

.he's a citizen taxpayer and has just as much right to express and opinion as anyone else.

Enough with the unfair "Hollyweird" criticism. He pays much much much more taxes than you do. His opinion of the government is worth much much much more than yours.

[JerseySean]

Enough with the unfair "Hollyweird" criticism. He pays much much much more taxes than you do. His opinion of the government is worth much much much more than yours.

Yes, but stop being such a Hollywood cliche a self important dickbag. Just be different dude.

[NewYorkDragons80]

As an aside...he's a citizen taxpayer and has just as much right to express and opinion as anyone else.
I agree 100%. I made it a point to say "he's a guy with an opinion, no more no less". He has just as much of a right, not more, not less. I'm not saying "Shut up and entertain me," because that's anti-speech silly goosiness.

[scottinnj]

I agree. A lot of people in the GOP are saying "boycott Oprah" because she won't have Palin on her show.

Tough Noogies.

Oprah is not a journalist, her show does not claim to a part of the news media, and she is a citizen of the United States.

She should have every right to refuse a guest, and to spend each and every day telling her audience why they should vote for the candidate she is voting for.

That is why I don't like the McCain-Feingold law. You should, as a private citizen be able to use any resource you have to promote the candidate of your choice. Anything less is a violation of the First Amendment in my opinion.

[epo]

Yes, but stop being such a Hollywood cliche a self important dickbag. Just be different dude.

Are you just jealous because you didn't get the Hollywood A team?

[JerseySean]

Are you just jealous because you didn't get the Hollywood A team?

We never do. but stop being so cliche about what you say, thats all. Neocons.....blah blah blah.....global warming....blah blah blah......hollywood is the pioneer that drives issues....blah blah blah.

Enough already. Be original in what you say.

[scottinnj]

Are you just jealous because you didn't get the Hollywood A team?

Alright, you asked for it!-
http://assets.hulu.com/shows/key_art_the_a_team.jpg

"I love it when a plan comes together!"

[epo]

Alright, you asked for it!-
http://assets.hulu.com/shows/key_art_the_a_team.jpg

"I love it when a plan comes together!"

Thank God somebody took the bait! :clap:

[Jujubees2]

Alright, you asked for it!-
http://assets.hulu.com/shows/key_art_the_a_team.jpg

"I love it when a plan comes together!"

I pity the fool who don't vote for Obama!

[Dude!]

I agree. A lot of people in the GOP are saying "boycott Oprah" because she won't have Palin on her show.

Tough Noogies.

You should, as a private citizen be able to use any resource you have to promote the candidate of your choice. Anything less is a violation of the First Amendment in my opinion.

that is exactly right
and one of those resources is the boycott

[epo]

that is exactly right
and one of those resources is the boycott

Yes, your boycott against Oprah will be great.

Seriously Dude...it's a waste of your time.

[Dude!]

Yes, your boycott against Oprah will be great.

Seriously Dude...it's a waste of your time.

i was talking in general terms

i did not ever watch the oprah show
not once
not a single time
these accusations are false

[epo]

i was talking in general terms

i did not ever watch the oprah show
not once
not a single time
these accusations are false

Neither do I. The best boycott is to ignore in my book.

[HBox]

i was talking in general terms

i did watch the oprah show

I'm John McCain and I approve this message.

[DiabloSammich]

Neither do I. The best boycott is to ignore in my book.



I didn't know you wrote a book. I must have ignored it.

[epo]

I didn't know you wrote a book. I must have ignored it.

It's a helluva book, but everyone ignored it.

[DolaMight]

I didn't know you wrote a book. I must have ignored it.

nice that was a delicious haha sammich

[HBox]

Jesus christ. Palin didn't know what the Bush Doctrine was. Charlie Gibson had to explain it to her after she was obviously confused and then gave an answer not really related to the Bush Doctrine.

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They hand picked Gibson to do the first serious interview, she has almost a week to prepare for this. And she doesn't even know what the most significant foreign policy development following 9/11 is?!

[IMSlacker]

Charlie Gibson is clearly sexist.

[SatCam]

Jesus christ. Palin didn't know what the Bush Doctrine was. Charlie Gibson had to explain it to her after she was obviously confused and then gave an answer not really related to the Bush Doctrine.

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They hand picked Gibson to do the first serious interview, she has almost a week to prepare for this. And she doesn't even know what the most significant foreign policy development following 9/11 is?!

I put it on mute and jacked it

[epo]

Jesus christ. Palin didn't know what the Bush Doctrine was. Charlie Gibson had to explain it to her after she was obviously confused and then gave an answer not really related to the Bush Doctrine.

They hand picked Gibson to do the first serious interview, she has almost a week to prepare for this. And she doesn't even know what the most significant foreign policy development following 9/11 is?!

More the reason for the Obama campaign to ignore her. She'll destroy herself.

[TheMojoPin]

I put it on mute and jacked it

Big Charlie Gibson fan?

[IMSlacker]

I put it on mute and jacked it

Good idea. Hearing her say "Churlie" 37 times in two-and-a-half minutes made my ears start to bleed.

[YourAmishDaddy]

I love how she backpedaled out of her statement her son was on a mission from God.

Sorry. This woman is a self-righteous wannabe neophyte and a nut.

[SatCam]

Good idea. Hearing her say "Churlie" 37 times in two-and-a-half minutes made my ears start to bleed.

This is churrrrrrrrrrrrlie

http://www.fortunecity.com/skyscraper/pentium/1808/11c90600.jpg

[Friday]

she needs to learn how to sit up straight.

oh yeah... and some stuff about the foreign policies of the country she is attempting to represent too.

http://www.wackbag.com/images/smilies/icon_rolleyes.gif

[NewYorkDragons80]

I pity the fool who don't vote for Obama!
How does that pity compare to pity directed at people who don't eat your cereal?

[scottinnj]

I pity the fool who don't vote for Obama!

How does that pity compare to pity directed at people who don't eat your cereal?

I pity the fool that pities the people who don't eat my cereal!

[Fez4PrezN2008]

I love how she backpedaled out of her statement her son was on a mission from God.

Sorry. This woman is a self-righteous wannabe neophyte and a nut.
I've often said she's a "Wannaneonut"

or maybe it was something about Wannabustanut... I forget.