Immigration Battle 2009-10

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Are we having the same conversation? How black and white do you see things? There are negatives and positives to having them here. No one is denying this. However, the negatives of your solutions FAR FAR FAR FAR outweigh the positives.

I'm happy you stopped pretending it's because of financial reasons. Can you please go back in this thread an edit out everytime you said that it is?

Financial reasons are a huge part of this mess, but there are also underlying ones as well.

[foodcourtdruide]

More proof illegals are a net drain on the economy. Total cost 206 billion. Now if AIG and the auto companies were not bailed out. That would have covered the cost. Same thing with the Dept of Education. Disband that thats an extra 100 billion in savings


http://one-simple-idea.com/NPI_Deportation_Cost.pdf

LOL! Wikipedia is a wonderful thing. National Policy Institute?

"Its chairman is Louis R. Andrews, who voted for Barack Obama in the 2008 US Presidential Election in order, he said, to help destroy the Republican Party so that it can be reborn into a party that will support the "interests of white people"."

[foodcourtdruide]

Financial reasons are a huge part of this mess, but there are also underlying ones as well.

"underlying".... come on.... get to the point already. We all know it's not financial. No one in their right mind thinks that it would cost less to enact your plans than it would to keep illegal immigrants here.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

LOL! Wikipedia is a wonderful thing. National Policy Institute?

"Its chairman is Louis R. Andrews, who voted for Barack Obama in the 2008 US Presidential Election in order, he said, to help destroy the Republican Party so that it can be reborn into a party that will support the "interests of white people"."

Did you even bother who wrote the study? Edward S. Rubenstein with 25 years in economic journalism. and financial analysis

[foodcourtdruide]

Did you even bother who wrote the study? Edward S. Rubenstein with 25 years in economic journalism. and financial analysis

No, I'm actually not going to go to any of your idiotic racist websites anymore because I'm scared I might get in trouble at work.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

No, I'm actually not going to go to any of your idiotic racist websites anymore because I'm scared I might get in trouble at work.

I KNEW IT CRY OUT RACISM LIKE A CHILD!!!!!!

When you have no defense. Spew out the R word, Im surprised it took you this long to do that. when I have posted articles about illegal Greeks and Armenians. Totally pathetic sir but so damn predictable!!!!!!!

[foodcourtdruide]

I KNEW IT CRY OUT RACISM LIKE A CHILD!!!!!!

When you have no defense. Spew out the R word, Im surprised it took you this long to do that. when I have posted articles about illegal Greeks and Armenians. Totally pathetic sir but so damn predictable!!!!!!!

Um, so the comment I quoted above wasn't racist?

[foodcourtdruide]

Um, so the comment I quoted above wasn't racist?

That was from the CHAIRMAN OF THE ORGANIZATION. I'm not accusing you of being racist, why did you just spaz out?

[epo]

I KNEW IT CRY OUT RACISM LIKE A CHILD!!!!!!

When you have no defense. Spew out the R word, Im surprised it took you this long to do that. when I have posted articles about illegal Greeks and Armenians. Totally pathetic sir but so damn predictable!!!!!!!

I generally think anyone who still promotes a Myspace site is a racist.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

That was from the CHAIRMAN OF THE ORGANIZATION. I'm not accusing you of being racist, why did you just spaz out?

It wasnt the chairman who did the report. And the Tan Klan aka La Raza isnt infested with racists?

[foodcourtdruide]

It wasnt the chairman who did the report. And the Tan Klan aka La Raza isnt infested with racists?

It doesn't matter. That site is an insanely racist and idiotic site. I'm not trusting anything coming out of there. And what the fuck does la raza have to do with anything? Did I post a link from la raza? You really can't debate on the issues, so you deflect and jump all over the place and try to have a debate based on your bumper sticker logic.

I don't know why I'm bothering even trying, it's incredibly frustrating, and honestly, kind of sad. You let your blind hatred cloud your thoughts. You wanted me to call you racist (which I didn't) so you could have the debate you wanted. You don't care about facts or reason. The sources you post are borderline at best, hate sites at worst.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

It doesn't matter. That site is an insanely racist and idiotic site. I'm not trusting anything coming out of there. And what the fuck does la raza have to do with anything? Did I post a link from la raza? You really can't debate on the issues, so you deflect and jump all over the place and try to have a debate based on your bumper sticker logic.

I don't know why I'm bothering even trying, it's incredibly frustrating, and honestly, kind of sad. You let your blind hatred cloud your thoughts. You wanted me to call you racist (which I didn't) so you could have the debate you wanted. You don't care about facts or reason. The sources you post are borderline at best, hate sites at worst.

I post a report by someone who is not the Chairman and thats your defense? A fact based report and you cry racism

Wanting the laws enforced and having people who snuck into this country willingly is not blind hatred. Why is it that you want to pick and choose what laws can be broken? You have no arguement. Illegal aliens are that. ILLEGAL!!! You can bring up bumper stickers or whatever you want but coming here illegally is breaking the law. plain and simple

I dont care how many hours the illegal works, how much they pay in sales taxes, they suck out more than they contribute. They may pay taxes on goods but they are not taxpayers. THEY HAVE NO LIABILITY!!!!!!!

It sickens me when I read stories about these dirtbags who have multiple DWI's, Committing repeated crimes and they are still not being deported. Our politicians are a bunch of cowards, afraid of the ethno centric special interest groups.

I do care about the facts that this continuing problem is killing our economy, squashing the taxpayer and putting a strain on all levels of government.

Now these lowlives Schumer and Graham are drafting another amnesty bill which forces Americans to carry around a biometric ID card or face jailtime. We the taxpayers must suffer for the crimes of illegal aliens. How about enfocing existing laws? This amnesty bill will go down in flames

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Again, no wonder CA is so far in the red

http://www.rightsidenews.com/201003129017/border-and-sovereignty/one-county-spends-600-mil-on-welfare-for-illegal-immigrants.html

Heres more of the same garbage you supporters of illegal aliens cry for

http://www.lohud.com/article/20100312/NEWS02/3120315/Boarder-sentenced-to-15-years-for-sexually-assaulting-7-year-old-girl

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I generally think anyone who still promotes a Myspace site is a racist.

To you anyone who doesnt cheer for the Brewers is one

[epo]

To you anyone who doesnt cheer for the Brewers is one

Wrong. Those who don't cheer for the Brewers are dolts, not racists. We all know that the Red Sox have a firm grip on the racist crowd.

[Syd]

Our politicians are a bunch of cowards, afraid of the ethno centric special interest groups.

They're here because corporations want them here, especially agricultural corporations.

[Ogre]

Wrong. Those who don't cheer for the Brewers are dolts, not racists. We all know that the Red Sox have a firm grip on the racist crowd.

OK Cool, I'm just a dolt, not a racist. Phhhew, I'm a little relieved at learning this.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

The national sport of Guatemala bust be drunk driving. Unfortunately for Brewster these dirtbags keep doing this

http://www.lohud.com/article/20100316/NEWS04/3160378/Man-trails-suspected-drunken-driver-in-Brewster--illegal-immigrant-arrested

[underdog]

The national sport of Guatemala bust be drunk driving. Unfortunately for Brewster these dirtbags keep doing this

http://www.lohud.com/article/20100316/NEWS04/3160378/Man-trails-suspected-drunken-driver-in-Brewster--illegal-immigrant-arrested

Bust.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Bust.

They will be putting a detainer on him so his amigos cant bail him out

[WRESTLINGFAN]

A parade of lawbreakers is scheduled for Sunday 3/21. How I wish it would be a mass deportation


http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/law-breakers-on-parade-again-88383457.html

[Crispy123]

I think we can all agree that amnesty is the best road for the current illegal immigrants in this country.

[Ogre]

I think we can all agree that amnesty is the best road for the current illegal immigrants in this country.

No.

However I would concur that there does need to be an honest an open discussion instead of just ignoring it. There are National Security issues to examine as well. The Southern Border's violence is spilling over into the United States and some of that is directly related to the illegal trafficking, be it drugs or people, that occurs.

The thought of just saying "OK everybody who is illegal is now legal", makes as much sense as "Ship all of them home."

Now there need's to be some parameters set for Naturalization, but that needs to be in concert with more teeth for ICE and State Authorities to be much more aggressive indeporting criminals and gang members. Common sense would make you believe that everyone would be for deportation of undocumented criminals. There are groups who aggressively fight this, among those are the ACLU. Its so fucked up.

I agree there has to be a full recognition of the problem that Illegal Immigration poses and a discussion on how to fix it for good.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I think we can all agree that amnesty is the best road for the current illegal immigrants in this country.

FUCK NO!!!!

This was tried in 1986 and look at the shit storm that happened!!!

[SonOfSmeagol]

A parade of lawbreakers is scheduled for Sunday 3/21. How I wish it would be a mass deportation


http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/law-breakers-on-parade-again-88383457.html

I agree. This flaunting pisses me off royally. I wonder what all the people who come here through the process think of this? I can tell about one of them anyway:

I have an employee from Pakistan who ran into some issues with his visa (due to faulty legal advice) and had to return home. We are now working hard to bring him back and I am astounded at all the wickets we have to go through, all the evidence and paperwork we have to provide. But we are doing it totally through the process (with better legal advice) so that there are no further complications. When he was here before I asked him what he thought of those who choose to come here illegally, and he could only pretty much shake his head in disgust. When we finally get him back I won’t have the heart to bring it up with him again, even in passing, knowing what he (and us) have gone through to do it right.

[Crispy123]

Graham and Schumer have a plan. It includes amnesty but only after they cop to a crime and do community service and pay back taxes and a fine. This sounds like a well thought out bipartisan plan. I like what Im hearing.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Those 2 scumbags Schumer and Graham just gave a big fuck you to the people who went thru the proper channels or are going thru them right now. How are the taxes going to be determined if there is no record of their wages. So its basically going to be a stated income from the illegals with no proof. They have just dumbed down this process and are rewarding people who broke the law.


FACT: No amnesty ever stopped or slowed the flow of illegal aliens into the US. None. Ever.

FACT: There have been not 1 but a total of 7 amnesties of varying types since and including the largest and best known one of 1986.

FACT: The Social Security Administration (SSA) disclosed recently that the balance of payments for the SSA is expected to shift this year from a net surplus to a net deficit. How does adding 12 or more million persons AND THEIR DEPENDENTS increase the solvency or longevity of Social Security as a program? Amnesty would increase the pool of people that qualify for benefits at the flick of a switch.

FACT: Prior to the implementation of the 1986 amnesty, the GAO did an estimate to predict the number of persons expected to apply for/receive amnesty. After the law was passed, they retroactively found that the actual number of persons that had applied for amnesty was approximately 3-4 times the originally expected number. Fraud and abuse were pervasive.

FACT: Although an initial supporter of the 1986 amnesty and having signed the 1986 law, Ronald Reagan later admitted that the policy was a failure.

FACT: The USCIS already lacks capacity to process the millions of visa applications, passports, etc. required of it in a timely fashion. Adding millions of additional applications into their workload would all but guarantee a massive increase in errors and the admittance of persons that are otherwise not eligible and have no rightful place in the US. If fraud and abuse were bad with 1-3.5 million applications, what would be like with 12 million hastily processed applications?

FACT: An illegal alien amnesty is a concept that REQUIRES a class of criminals step forward and offer ‘honest’ applications to receive the benefit of law that no other American can receive.


Because of the crimes of these illegals everyone will be required to carry around a biometric ID card which violates civil liberties

[underdog]

Those 2 scumbags Schumer and Graham just gave a big fuck you to the people who went thru the proper channels or are going thru them right now. How are the taxes going to be determined if there is no record of their wages. So its basically going to be a stated income from the illegals with no proof. They have just dumbed down this process and are rewarding people who broke the law.


FACT: No amnesty ever stopped or slowed the flow of illegal aliens into the US. None. Ever.

FACT: There have been not 1 but a total of 7 amnesties of varying types since and including the largest and best known one of 1986.

FACT: The Social Security Administration (SSA) disclosed recently that the balance of payments for the SSA is expected to shift this year from a net surplus to a net deficit. How does adding 12 or more million persons AND THEIR DEPENDENTS increase the solvency or longevity of Social Security as a program? Amnesty would increase the pool of people that qualify for benefits at the flick of a switch.

FACT: Prior to the implementation of the 1986 amnesty, the GAO did an estimate to predict the number of persons expected to apply for/receive amnesty. After the law was passed, they retroactively found that the actual number of persons that had applied for amnesty was approximately 3-4 times the originally expected number. Fraud and abuse were pervasive.

FACT: Although an initial supporter of the 1986 amnesty and having signed the 1986 law, Ronald Reagan later admitted that the policy was a failure.

FACT: The USCIS already lacks capacity to process the millions of visa applications, passports, etc. required of it in a timely fashion. Adding millions of additional applications into their workload would all but guarantee a massive increase in errors and the admittance of persons that are otherwise not eligible and have no rightful place in the US. If fraud and abuse were bad with 1-3.5 million applications, what would be like with 12 million hastily processed applications?

FACT: An illegal alien amnesty is a concept that REQUIRES a class of criminals step forward and offer ‘honest’ applications to receive the benefit of law that no other American can receive.

FACT : you need a job

[Crispy123]

Fact: I like Lucky Charms

[WRESTLINGFAN]

FACT : you need a job

You just want more underage mestizo boys here!!!!

[Ritalin]

FACT: I like turtles.

[The Bends]

Fact: The Coen Brothers last two movies sucked...

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Selling drugs, Americans wont sell
http://www.oregonlive.com/west-linn/index.ssf/2010/03/police_arrest_illegal_immigrant_accused_of_hiding_ heroin_in_babys_car_seat.html

[foodcourtdruide]

Fact: The Coen Brothers last two movies sucked...

Serious Man was amazing. I liked Burn After Reading too.

[The Bends]

Serious Man was amazing. I liked Burn After Reading too. Yeah.......no......

[The Bends]

What's wrong with asking immigrants to follow the proper procedure, if they want to live in this country....it seems fair....If they put forth the effort to do it right, they should be welcome.....

But, amnesty is not the answer.....We can't support illegal crossing of the border....You can't reward those who have come to this country the wrong way!

Simply indulge in the proper channels, have patience, and you will be welcome in this country...

[Serpico1103]

.... ... .. . .... . .... ..

[WRESTLINGFAN]

What's wrong with asking immigrants to follow the proper procedure, if they want to live in this country....it seems fair....If they put forth the effort to do it right, they should be welcome.....

But, amnesty is not the answer.....We can't support illegal crossing of the border....You can't reward those who have come to this country the wrong way!

Simply indulge in the proper channels, have patience, and you will be welcome in this country...


Exactly. However the illegals want something for nothing. Its dumbing down the gift of American citizenship because they happened to hop a fence or overstay their visa and they want to be rewarded.

Why not let bankrobbers keep the money if they were able to leave a bank with 100k and some gold bars. Thats the same philosophy as with people wanting Amnesty

[Syd]

natural law versus positive law

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Its illegal-palooza 2010 Today as thousands of them will be making a mockery of our immigration laws and demanding Amnesty. I have 2 words for them. NO MAS!!!!!

[Serpico1103]

Its illegal-palooza 2010 Today as thousands of them will be making a mockery of our immigration laws and demanding Amnesty. I have 2 words for them. NO MAS!!!!!
More more more!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

More more more!

Mas Mas Mas?

[A.J.]

More more more!

How do you like it, how do you like it.

[Serpico1103]

How do you like it, how do you like it.

Like it? I LOVE it! What are we talking about?

[Jujubees2]

Like it? I LOVE it! What are we talking about?

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[WRESTLINGFAN]

I really wish these shills would call them what they really are. Illegal aliens. Of course more of them coming in and pumping out jackpot babies like assembly lines causes a population boom

http://www.lohud.com/article/20100323/NEWS02/3230366/Babies--immigrants-boost-population-in-northern-suburbs

[WRESTLINGFAN]

2 Prior DUI's and this lowlife from south of the border gets only 14 years. Multiply that with all the other lowlife drunk illegals and theres a problem

Don't even say its only a DUI problem, if this subhuman wasn't in this country that girl would be alive


http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/dpp/news/justice/illegal-immigrant-sentenced-to-14-years-for-teen's-death


Whats your excuse for this? He was here to send money home to his 15 children?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

There is a bill that was just passed in the AZ legislature which would give police the power to basically stop anyone who they think is an illegal and ask for their ID. This is something in which I do not support at all. No one wants to live in a police state and it will divert police from actually arresting anyone who actually commits a crime. Also the police should be focusing on all the coyotes smuggling people across the border and the drop houses that are used.

[Misteriosa]

There is a bill that was just passed in the AZ legislature which would give police the power to basically stop anyone who they think is an illegal and ask for their ID. This is something in which I do not support at all. No one wants to live in a police state and it will divert police from actually arresting anyone who actually commits a crime. Also the police should be focusing on all the coyotes smuggling people across the border and the drop houses that are used.

im glad to hear you see the wrong in this bill. i wont be able to walk down the streets in arizona without showing "my papers" [/nazi]. it wont matter that my grandparents are citizens. it wont matter that members of my family fought in the us military and some have died in service to this country. it wont matter that i was born here. all that will matter is that i look a certain way. :wallbash:

[foodcourtdruide]

There is a bill that was just passed in the AZ legislature which would give police the power to basically stop anyone who they think is an illegal and ask for their ID. This is something in which I do not support at all. No one wants to live in a police state and it will divert police from actually arresting anyone who actually commits a crime. Also the police should be focusing on all the coyotes smuggling people across the border and the drop houses that are used.

Awesome, WF. I'm glad to see that though you feel strongly about an issue, you won't abandon your core beliefs to correct it.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Awesome, WF. I'm glad to see that though you feel strongly about an issue, you won't abandon your core beliefs to correct it.

I don;t think the Gov will sign this IMHO

[foodcourtdruide]

I don;t think the Gov will sign this IMHO

It's an incredibly scary concept.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

It's an incredibly scary concept.

I saw on the news that the Gov has until Saturday to sign it. While I am for strict enforcement of immigration laws and want people deported who don't belong here, there should be some precedent. Having local police act as defacto ICE agents is not the way. If a cop pulls someone over for a DWI or arrests someone for a crime like robbery and the person is carrying a phony ID or fake SS card then by all means the police should contact ICE in those cases

[WRESTLINGFAN]

No link yet but AZ Governor just signed this into law. I think it will be ruled unconstitutional by a circuit court, I believe AZ is in the 9th circuit

[Serpico1103]

No link yet but AZ Governor just signed this into law. I think it will be ruled unconstitutional by a circuit court, I believe AZ is in the 9th circuit
I hope those activist judges keep their noses out of it.

[Jujubees2]

I hope those activist judges keep their noses out of it.

Yeah, wouldn't want them to do their jobs...

[Jujubees2]

Arizona Sheriff Clarence Dupnik refuses to enforce state's new 'racist' immigration law (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2010/04/29/2010-04-29_arizona_sheriff_clarence_dupnik_refuses_to_enfo rce_states_new_racist_immigration.html)

You go Sheriff!

[Serpico1103]

Arizona Sheriff Clarence Dupnik refuses to enforce state's new 'racist' immigration law (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2010/04/29/2010-04-29_arizona_sheriff_clarence_dupnik_refuses_to_enfo rce_states_new_racist_immigration.html)

You go Sheriff!
I knew there would be resistance from law enforcement, but I didn't think it would be so overt. Possibly they feel that they are being used as political tools. Instead of being allowed to focus on local issues, they are forced into a national issue. Police officers always have great discretion in arresting someone (which is necessary, but it causes problems also).
And, I was joking about "activist judges."

[Ritalin]

From BTN:

A New York hotel is staking its claim to have invented a new hospitality niche – birth tourism. The Marmara Manhattan offers “an exclusive package for new mothers that wish to give birth in the USA”, with the additional bonus of the newborn child gaining US citizenship.

The hotel, which is part of the Turkish hospitality chain, exploits the 14th amendment to the US constitution, which states that all children born on American soil “are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside”.

The Marmara Manhattan, which is located in New York’s Upper East Side, told The Times: “What we offer is simply a one-bedroom suite accommodation for $5,100, plus taxes, for a month, with airport transfer, baby cradle and a gift set for the mother.” There are also medical fees of about £20,500.

However the price is a cheap and easy one to pay for US citizenship. Many will eventually use the newborn - known as an “anchor baby” - as a stepping stone for the immigration of extended family.

The hotel has so far sold 15 of the packages.

According to the US Citizenship and Immigration Services, the practice is entirely legal as long as the women can pay their medical bills.

However there are noises being made in Washington to close the loophole.
Gary Miller, a Republican congressman, told The Times: “They come to this country and have babies. The children are citizens. The children are eligible to go to school. They receive food stamps and social programmes. The American taxpayers are paying for it."

Key source markets include Hong Kong, South Korea and Turkey, where a number of travel agencies specialise in the birth tourism market.

“Many people say they are doing it because they want their kids to get a cheaper education and not deal with visa issues when they grow up,” said Levant Bas, of the Istanbul-based operator Gurib Tourism. “We have a package that covers everything from the flight and city tours to accommodation for several months and hospital expenses.

[high fly]

I saw on the news that the Gov has until Saturday to sign it. While I am for strict enforcement of immigration laws and want people deported who don't belong here, there should be some precedent.

You have precedent - the Founding Fathers.
Try lining up with them on immigration.
Oops!
Did I say something wrong?


(tee hee heee! I just loves me a chance to separate conservatives from the Founding Fathers they like to pretend to emulate)

[Alice S. Fuzzybutt]

It really isn't that easy to become a citizen/permanent resident in this country. ICE wants immigrants to fuck up. You can't do it on your own. You REALLY need an immigration lawyer. $$$

My husband (who is a legal immigrant) let his work-visa expire. HIS fault but it was an easy fix. We didn't HAVE to get married, but we both fell in love with the idea. I decided to sponsor him.

We hired an immigration lawyer. The fee was $2500, PLUS over $1800 for the ICE processing fee. That's a lot of money for most immigrants making minimum wage. It cleared out my husband's savings.

He had a NJ-issued ID and an immigration ID. ICE took those away and has NO INTENTION of issuing him a temporary ID. Marco has no ID other than his Ecuadorian passport and a certified copy of our marriage certificate (not that will help him, but it's something). Why would ICE let someone hang like that?

We are doing what we are supposed to do. My husband has no ID. His sister (a legal resident) lives in Arizona. We wanted to to visit her. Screw that!

I really worry about him. I want him to carry a copy of my birth certificate, my drivers license, my SS card (numbers blocked out) just to prove he's married to a US citizen. It's very unlikely that a cop would bother with him but you never know.

One day I asked him, "What if you get deported?" He, matter-of-factly, answered me: "I go back to Ecuador and you lead your life here. And you visit. I try again in two years." It broke my heart. But it could happen.

I'm very scared.

EDIT: He is considered one of the "best guys" at work because he works hard and doesn't have an attitude. He's going to school to get his GED and wants to get an EMT certificate. He volunteers when he can to "give back" for what the country has given him. It breaks his heart when someone calls him "A lazy Mexican." Even his HS English teacher wrote him off when Marco couldn't articulate an answer to a question his teacher asked. Turned out, Marco was the only one who did all the English assignments and read all the books.

Marco is exceptional. Doesn't the US want that?!?!?

[Dude!]

One day I asked him, "What if you get deported?" He, matter-of-factly, answered me: "I go back to Ecuador and you lead your life here. And you visit. I try again in two years." It broke my heart. But it could happen.

maybe i'm missing something,
but why wouldn't you just go
to ecuador with your husband?

[PapaBear]

maybe i'm missing something,
but why wouldn't you just go
to ecuador with your husband?
Seriously? You act like that's some kind of "drop of the hat" simple solution.

[Alice S. Fuzzybutt]

Dude!

I would go in a heart beat BUT I have a mortgage. My condo is our nest egg. I also don't have the funds to just up and leave.

We have a LONG TERM GOAL: we want retire in Ecuador. We can't do that yet. We are both saving towards our retirement.

As much as it would break my heart for him to leave, we both decided that it would make sense financially for me to stay here.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

You have precedent - the Founding Fathers.
Try lining up with them on immigration.
Oops!
Did I say something wrong?


(tee hee heee! I just loves me a chance to separate conservatives from the Founding Fathers they like to pretend to emulate)

Still dont know the difference btwn legal vs illegal immigration?

Yes the founders were very clear about ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION

Article 4 section 4 of that pesky document

[...] and [The United States] shall protect each of them [the States] against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence




Damn the constitution. BHO just wants to pass an executive order giving them blanket Amnesty. Who needs Congress, BHO can just pass his own laws


http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/06/24/source-administration-weighing-unilateral-legalization-illegal-immigrants/

[JimBeam]

I hate Levin but this clip is awesome. Not for what he says but for what the moron woman is saying.

I don't think that it makes a political statement but it does make a statement about the schooling in Wisconsin though.

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[WRESTLINGFAN]

I hate Levin but this clip is awesome. Not for what he says but for what the moron woman is saying.

I don't think that it makes a political statement but it does make a statement about the schooling in Wisconsin though.

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What do you expect from a state with Shitty beer, Sports teams that suck and awful weather

[Jujubees2]

What do you expect from a state with Shitty beer, Sports teams that suck and awful weather

Yeah, but they got lots of cheese

[torker]

I hate Levin but this clip is awesome. Not for what he says but for what the moron woman is saying.

I don't think that it makes a political statement but it does make a statement about the schooling in Wisconsin though.

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Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

That Fat cunt probably knows everything about the Packers

[torker]

The guy who comes to fatso's aid is a fuckin saint.:innocent:

[JimBeam]

I wish they could've cut back to her fat face when that guy " assured her ".

I'd love to hear some follow-up from her since she had such a strong opinion.

A president or vice president misstating something is one thing but to get on your soapbox and be so adminant about something and be so wrong is in a league by itself.

I mean she even had hand gestures to show you how far removed from the border AZ actually is.

I'm sure the people of AZ hpe she does boycott the state because she could cause some damage.

She'd probably put all of the buffets out of business.

[Ritalin]

Wisconsin is like my second or third favorite state.

[epo]

Wisconsin is like my second or third favorite state.

Lies.

[epo]

I hate Levin but this clip is awesome. Not for what he says but for what the moron woman is saying.

I don't think that it makes a political statement but it does make a statement about the schooling in Wisconsin though.

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Levin's entire premise is wrong, Milwaukee County Supervisors are non-partisan.

But Peggy West isn't that bright.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Illegal alien Paradise Maywood, CA throws in towel.

Kind of expected when about half the population is illegal and contributes nada

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/local/ap/maywood-plans-to-disband-all-city-services-96948009.html

[A.J.]

Illegal alien Paradise Maywood, CA throws in towel.

Kind of expected when about half the population is illegal and contributes nada

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/local/ap/maywood-plans-to-disband-all-city-services-96948009.html

This is America -- SPEAK ENGLISH.

[Dan 'Hampton]

This is America -- SPEAK ENGLISH.



I expect the same of southerners.

[Dude!]

I expect the same of southerners.

i expect the same
from Bostonians

worst accent in the country

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Just when you think it can't get any worse


http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/06/25/widow-houston-officer-killed-illegal-immigrant-shocked-ice-appointment/

Why aren't the feds sueing sanctuary cities since they are violating the law themselves

[Barnaby Jones]

Just when you think it can't get any worse


http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/06/25/widow-houston-officer-killed-illegal-immigrant-shocked-ice-appointment/

Why aren't the feds sueing sanctuary cities since they are violating the law themselves

Because illegal immigration laws are mostly just window dressing to keep wonderful people like yourself distracted and obsessed!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Because illegal immigration laws are mostly just window dressing to keep wonderful people like yourself distracted and obsessed!

Next time you get pulled over for going over the speed limit just tell the cop that he has no right to hand you a ticket

[Barnaby Jones]

I hope the wind shear from that soaring over your head didn't give you whiplash!

WHOOSH!!!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I hope the wind shear from that soaring over your head didn't give you whiplash!

WHOOSH!!!

Damn magic carpets!!!!

[hanso]

I will take a Mexican latina with nerf sticks. The cleaning lady at work might do.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I will take a Mexican latina with nerf sticks. The cleaning lady at work might do.

Mexican and Central American woman have got to be some of the roughest looking women on earth. Nothing sexy about them. No wonder the men are always drunk when they fuck them. They are shaped like 4 foot linebackers.

Colombian, Brasilian and Argentinean women on the other hand are fucking goddesses.

[hanso]

Tell that to Jessica Alba, Selena Gomez, Lynda Carter, and Salma Hayek.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Tell that to Jessica Alba, Selena Gomez, Lynda Carter, and Salma Hayek.

Those aren't your typical looking Mexicans. They are beautiful shapely women. Your average Mexican/Central American have those rough looking Aztec/Mayan features

I'll pass

http://journalism.berkeley.edu/ngno/reports/language/leadingladies.jpg

[underdog]

Those aren't your typical looking Mexicans. They are beautiful shapely women. Your average Mexican/Central American have those rough looking Aztec/Mayan features

I'll pass

http://journalism.berkeley.edu/ngno/reports/language/leadingladies.jpg

The majority of every type of culture is ugly.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

As much as I oppose illegal immigration, this just sounds dumb. How do they know which houses have illegals ?

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2010/06/30/2010-06-30_arizona_immigration_law_backer_politician_barry _wong_wants_to_cut_power_from_ill.html

Many of them boast that they are indigenous, If they really want to live like that, they should choose not to have power, indoor plumbing and live in mudhuts. Also many of them claim that there should be no borders and they should have free rein. Behavior like that Pre Columbian times would have a chest full of arrows in them if they wandered into another tribes territory

[Serpico1103]

Just when you think it can't get any worse


http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/06/25/widow-houston-officer-killed-illegal-immigrant-shocked-ice-appointment/

Why aren't the feds sueing sanctuary cities since they are violating the law themselves

Sanctuary City- love buzz words.
The police chief that was "promoting" a sanctuary city was merely trying to spend his budget on local issues. He, and most local police forces, do not want to bear the burden of enforcing federal laws. They do not disagree with enforcement of immigration laws, it is that they don't want to pay for it with their limited budget.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Sanctuary City- love buzz words.
The police chief that was "promoting" a sanctuary city was merely trying to spend his budget on local issues. He, and most local police forces, do not want to bear the burden of enforcing federal laws. They do not disagree with enforcement of immigration laws, it is that they don't want to pay for it with their limited budget.

Local police can't deport illegals, they have to be turned over to ICE. So youre saying that many big cities like NYC, LA, Chicago etc disagree with immigration laws? Bloomberg would love to have the illegals leaving Arizona to come to NY. LA's mayor feels the same way and you know Daley wants even more

[Serpico1103]

Local police can't deport illegals, they have to be turned over to ICE. So youre saying that many big cities like NYC, LA, Chicago etc disagree with immigration laws? Bloomberg would love to have the illegals leaving Arizona to come to NY. LA's mayor feels the same way and you know Daley wants even more

Local police officers are asked to process and detain the immigrants, while ICE takes its time to respond. That is local police's complaint, that when they do enforce the law, they get no support from the federal government. That is why AZ passed its law, to force the Feds to step up and act.
I didn't say any police force disagrees with immigration laws. Only that, like all federal laws, they want the federal government to help with enforcement.
NYC is full of illegal immigrants; South American, Asian, and others.
The federal government's non-enforcement is the problem. The only problem. Go after employers, give agencies the mandate to vigorously enforce the current laws.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

What an arrogant piece of shit Congresswhore Pete Stark is. Mocking his constituents. Im sure if a drug dealer from Mexico raped one of his family members you can be sure he would want something done. He thinks that the border is secure


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qVpMwqv7QM


Heres some ignorant cunt comparing the border patrol to the Klan. Sure, like Mexicans are being lynched along the Rio grande

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4ObQmf-GWU

[Dude!]

Heres some ignorant cunt comparing the border patrol to the Klan. Sure, like Mexicans are being lynched along the Rio grande

can't we let Robert Byrd
rest in peace?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

can't we let Robert Byrd
rest in peace?

I wonder if theres an ICE detention center in W.VA named after him

[Barnaby Jones]

What an arrogant piece of shit Congresswhore Pete Stark is. Mocking his constituents. Im sure if a drug dealer from Mexico raped one of his family members you can be sure he would want something done. He thinks that the border is secure


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qVpMwqv7QM


Heres some ignorant cunt comparing the border patrol to the Klan. Sure, like Mexicans are being lynched along the Rio grande

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4ObQmf-GWU

A secure border wouldn't stop "drug dealers" from getting to the country, A-DOOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYY!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Most of the illegals here are from Latin America and face it, they are wayyyyyy behind the times when it comes to birth control. They keep having children they cant afford and that is one of the most immoral things someone can do. The church has a huge influence in those countries and of course as a result, hardly any abortions or references to birth control.

Why do all these bishops/cardinals here in the US want open borders? Its because of the dwindling membership so they turn to the uneducated gullible hispanics to fill the pews and as a result on Sunday mornings the churches are filled with them

[A.J.]

I wonder if theres an ICE detention center in W.VA named after him

Wait for it...

[Syd]

Why do all these bishops/cardinals here in the US want open borders? Its because of the dwindling membership so they turn to the uneducated gullible hispanics to fill the pews and as a result on Sunday mornings the churches are filled with them

:wallbash:

closest emoticon to hitting the nail on the head

[JimBeam]

Why do all these bishops/cardinals here in the US want open borders? Its because of the dwindling membership so they turn to the uneducated gullible hispanics to fill the pews and as a result on Sunday mornings the churches are filled with them

But the Cathloic Church isn't Microsoft and doesn't make money from investors.

If the priests, bishops and cardinals you reffered to were driving around in fancy cars and living a lavish lifestyle on the backs of their parishoners that argument might make sense.

I feel safe in believing that the folks in The Vatican aren't sitting around discussing open borders in the US as part of some plot to what rule the world ?

Sure the Church stays relevant as it has followers but it's done so for 2000+ years and there's nothing new to what they are thinking.

To be honest the Church shouldn't have a stance directly on the policies because it's not their concern.

Their opinion should be, and I believe is, that all men should be treated equally and while they don't/won't/shouldn't dennounce borders they hope that we as a nation would keep in line w/ that thinking.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

But the Cathloic Church isn't Microsoft and doesn't make money from investors.

If the priests, bishops and cardinals you reffered to were driving around in fancy cars and living a lavish lifestyle on the backs of their parishoners that argument might make sense.

I feel safe in believing that the folks in The Vatican aren't sitting around discussing open borders in the US as part of some plot to what rule the world ?

Sure the Church stays relevant as it has followers but it's done so for 2000+ years and there's nothing new to what they are thinking.

To be honest the Church shouldn't have a stance directly on the policies because it's not their concern.

Their opinion should be, and I believe is, that all men should be treated equally and while they don't/won't/shouldn't dennounce borders they hope that we as a nation would keep in line w/ that thinking.


my point is that The church needs the membership due to the whole abuse scandals of the past 7 years that came out especially in the US. In latin America there were probably some cases but not as widespread like here

[JimBeam]

But the Catholic Church doesn't care where it gets its members.

It's not like a person is more valuable as a US citizen Cathloic then they are as a Mexican citizen Catholic.

Aside from their potential for more wealth in the US there's nothing that's different between the 2.

Unless you'd wanna believe that it's all about money.

There are more practicing Catholics in the uncivilized world ( is that the correct term ? ) than there are in the US.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

But the Catholic Church doesn't care where it gets its members.

It's not like a person is more valuable as a US citizen Cathloic then they are as a Mexican citizen Catholic.

Aside from their potential for more wealth in the US there's nothing that's different between the 2.

Unless you'd wanna believe that it's all about money.

There are more practicing Catholics in the uncivilized world ( is that the correct term ? ) than there are in the US.


If I'm correct I dont think theres a certain titheing % like a lot of Protestant Churches require.

BTW i read in the local paper that Danbury and New Milford Hospitals are merging. I think its because of the large illegal population in Danbury using the Hospital and not paying for services. I used to live in W'Chester and hospitals like St Agnes, United Phelps and Mt Vernon Hospitals shut down because of this. There is a huge illegal population in one of the richest counties in the country

More and more doctors are opening up Surgical centers because they are not reuqired to treat illegals like hospitals are

[JimBeam]

Danbury has a large Brazilian population it seems but between you and I it's not like I could tell one nationallity of Latin decent from another.

Yeah I don't think the Catholic Church has a set rate as far as donations, although I think the 10% is mentioned in the Bible, but my point was if you live in the US and make a decent living you'd have more to be able to give to the church which depends on donations.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Danbury has a large Brazilian population it seems but between you and I it's not like I could tell one nationallity of Latin decent from another.

Yeah I don't think the Catholic Church has a set rate as far as donations, although I think the 10% is mentioned in the Bible, but my point was if you live in the US and make a decent living you'd have more to be able to give to the church which depends on donations.

I grew up in Mt Vernon NY which has a large Brazilian population. Without sounding too politically incorrect Brazilian women are much better looking than Mexican and Central Americans. Same thing with Dominican/P.R. women. They have more of a curvy physique. Central Americans/Mexicans have very rough looking features usually are shorter. They have more of an indigenous look to them. I know the Brazilians have a lot of different races mixed in so thats probably the reason why they are better looking

[A.J.]

But the Catholic Church doesn't care where it gets its members.


As long as there is money going into the collection baskets every week.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I think the most cost effective way to curb this is to have them self deport. This will happen if there are no jobs for them. With programs like E Verify and raids on workplaces that knowingly hire illegals there will be no work for them and they will leave the country.

Also another thing besides jobs that attracts illegals here is our massive welfare state. They know that with more kids it means more money for them. Deny public assistance to them and it solves that problem. No more prenatal care funded by taxpayers. No more kidney transplants/dialysis etc.

Also the 14th ammendment has been bastardized by these people and by the politicians. Ending birthright citizenship for children of illegals must be implemented

[JimBeam]

As long as there is money going into the collection baskets every week.

Of course and that money then goes to help others.

The Catholic Church is the 2nd largest provider of humanitarian aid in the state of CT behind only the state itself.

I'm sure that's similar in most states.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

The "one" was lecturing us again about immigrants like Tesla and Einstein the other day. I thought he was supposed to be the smartest person ever to occupy the white house . The stupid son of a bitch doesn't know the differnce btwn legal and illegal. He also said that we needed the best and brightest. I didn't know the uneducated illiterate alcoholic with a leaf blower or some forever pregnant whores would be the ones in the labs finding cures for diseases

[Dude!]

The "one" was lecturing us again about immigrants like Tesla and Einstein the other day. I thought he was supposed to be the smartest person ever to occupy the white house . The stupid son of a bitch doesn't know the differnce btwn legal and illegal. He also said that we needed the best and brightest. I didn't know the uneducated illiterate alcoholic with a leaf blower or some forever pregnant whores would be the ones in the labs finding cures for diseases

the poor dope is
the peter-principal cubed

he was in way over his head
as a senator
and even as a 'community organizer'
he was a nothing

as president, he is clearly
drowning in his own
lazy and shiftless incompetence

[epo]

Its nice to know that 35 pages into this thread, that Wrestlingfan and Dude! still blame immigrants for all of our problems.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Its nice to know that 35 pages into this thread, that Wrestlingfan and Dude! still blame ILLEGAL ALIENS for a lot of our problems.



Fixed it for you

[brettmojo]

The "one" was lecturing us again about immigrants like Tesla and Einstein the other day. I thought he was supposed to be the smartest person ever to occupy the white house . The stupid son of a bitch doesn't know the differnce btwn legal and illegal. He also said that we needed the best and brightest. I didn't know the uneducated illiterate alcoholic with a leaf blower or some forever pregnant whores would be the ones in the labs finding cures for diseases
Yeah. When compared to Nazi war criminals Mexican criminals have big shoes to fill when it comes to contributing to this country.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Yeah. When compared to Nazi war criminals Mexican criminals have big shoes to fill when it comes to contributing to this country.

When comparing Arizona to 1930s Germany all arguements cease validity. When Mexicans are forced to wear Yellow tortillas on their clothing & are sent to the showers then we can continue this discussion

[Serpico1103]

When comparing Arizona to 1930s Germany all arguements cease validity. When Mexicans are forced to wear Yellow tortillas on their clothing & are sent to the showers then we can continue this discussion

But, you can call slight tax increases for some a "jihad?"

[WRESTLINGFAN]

When BHO cant get his way. Blame the GOP. He is also going to need to blame fellow members in his own party as they will not even touch this with a 10 ft pinata stick

http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/107097-obama-faces-prospect-of-strong-dem-opposition-on-immigration-reform

[epo]

When BHO cant get his way. Blame the GOP. He is also going to need to blame fellow members in his own party as they will not even touch this with a 10 ft pinata stick

http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/107097-obama-faces-prospect-of-strong-dem-opposition-on-immigration-reform

So you don't want immigration reform?

Interesting....

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Fixed it

So you want immigration enforcement?

...



YES!!!!

[epo]

Fixed it

YES!!!!

You heard it...WrestlingFan doesn't want true immigration reform.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Again. Fixed it

You heard it...WrestlingFan doesn't want Amnesty.

[epo]

Again. Fixed it

In other words, you enjoy the status quo.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

In other words, you enjoy the status quo.

DAMN FUCKING RIGHT!!!

I dont enjoy the fencehoppers & visa overstayers

[epo]

Yes and I don't enjoy the lawbreakers

So you enjoy the fact that you can purchase cheap goods via the labor of illegals, yet want to offer them no path to citizenship or rights?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

So you enjoy the fact that you can purchase cheap goods via the labor of illegals, yet want to offer them no path to citizenship or rights?


Cheap labor isn't cheap.


We got by pretty damn good before the human tsunami


I'd gladly pay 20 cents more for a head of lettuce than financing their entitlements and their kids, healthcare, education, incarcaration and everything else they suck off like parasites


I dont give these people a pass. They knew in advance that they are breaking the law This cocksucker of a President venerates them meanwhile denegrating American citizens and Legal Immigrants who are paying the bills.

Like trained seals the entire Democratic party cheered Calderon while he took a massive shit on this country meanwhile Mexicos laws are more draconian than ours

[epo]

Cheap labor isn't cheap.


We got by pretty damn good before the human tsunami


I'd gladly pay 20 cents more for a head of lettuce than financing their entitlements and their kids, healthcare, education, incarcaration and everything else they suck off like parasites


Look at what these fucking companies did to low skilled jobs. They drove wages down. Construction is flat on its back because of the same reason

Why do you hate the 14th Amendment of the Constitution so much?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Why do you hate the 14th Amendment of the Constitution so much?




The 14th Ammendment was never intended to be bastardized for someone to pump out kids every 9 months and become a leech


All we hear is that these are family values people. More like they are here to make a quick buck and collect off the taxpayer as much as they can. I don't call their kids anchor babies theyre fucking Jackpot babies


http://www.14thamendment.us/birthright_citizenship/original_intent.html


Why do you hate article 4 section 4 of the constitution so much ?


Hussein stated that the borders are more secure now than 20 years ago... Really ???

http://www.elpasotimes.com/ci_15405948

[epo]

The 14th Ammendment was never intended to be bastardized for someone to pump out kids every 9 months and become a leech


All we hear is that these are family values people. More like they are here to make a quick buck and collect off the taxpayer as much as they can. I don't call their kids anchor babies theyre fucking Jackpot babies


http://www.14thamendment.us/birthright_citizenship/original_intent.html


Why do you hate article 4 section 4 of the constitution so much ?


Hussein stated that the borders are more secure now than 20 years ago... Really ???

http://www.elpasotimes.com/ci_15405948

You really are all class.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

You really are all class.

Anyone who opens their legs to collect more welfare Black White or Brown is a leech.




Barry's middlename ain't Milhous

[epo]

Anyone who opens their legs to collect more welfare Black White or Brown is a leech.

Barry's middlename ain't Milhous

I'm sure your family tree is pure. Or like everyone else, your family entered our nation via various means.

Is illegal immigration an issue? Yep. But its also an issue that we've never truly addressed as a nation. To expect it to be fixed overnight because you want it fixed (especially without reforms) is nothing short of ridiculous.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I'm sure your family tree is pure. Or like everyone else, your family entered our nation via various means.

Is illegal immigration an issue? Yep. But its also an issue that we've never truly addressed as a nation. To expect it to be fixed overnight because you want it fixed (especially without reforms) is nothing short of ridiculous.

Every family might have 1 or 2 stow aways on their way to ellis island, but it's not like the spillover today of people who come here because of our welfare state.

I want it fixed. Enforce the existing laws. Don't reward lawbreaking punish the companies who hire them. End birthright citizenship deny public assistance to illegals and the problem can be dealt with. Hell, they will even self deport since there will be no opportunities for them


Schumers/Grahams strategy. Have them admit they broke the law. Yea right. Make them learn English, hahahahahaha. Pay back taxes and a fine. How's that going to be calculated and you know damn well the congressional hispanic caucus will throw a shit fit saying that they cant afford that and they will be eligible for a hardship waiver. Community service? I can see it now they will be passing out flyers for green energy with SEIU shirts on

[epo]

I want it fixed. Enforce the existing laws. Don't reward lawbreaking punish the companies who hire them. End birthright citizenship deny public assistance to illegals and the problem can be dealt with. Hell, they will even self deport since there will be no opportunities for them

Once again, the issue with your plan is the 14th Amendment of the Constitution. Those children have rights, as that is the law of the land whether you like it or not.

We need a well-thought out long-termimmigration plan, not a knee-jerk feel good "solution".

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Once again, the issue with your plan is the 14th Amendment of the Constitution. Those children have rights, as that is the law of the land whether you like it or not.

We need a well-thought out long-termimmigration plan, not a knee-jerk feel good "solution".

The Supreme court should take up this issue. If they rule that they are in fact citizens, While I may not agree with it, at least there is some ruling on it. Maybe there should be an ammendment stating birthright citizenship


As far as those other propositions if all those factors are implemented the problem will end up being somewhat solved and it can inhibit future illegal immigration signifigantly

[epo]

The Supreme court should take up this issue. If they rule that they are in fact citizens, While I may not agree with it, at least there is some ruling on it. Maybe there should be an ammendment stating birthright citizenship


As far as those other propositions if all those factors are implemented the problem will end up being somewhat solved and it can inhibit future illegal immigration signifigantly

The Constitution needs no clarification. Whether you like it or not, the 14th Amendment is clear that if you are born on our soil, you are a citizen.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

The Constitution needs no clarification. Whether you like it or not, the 14th Amendment is clear that if you are born on our soil, you are a citizen.


From http://www.14thamendment.us/birthright_citizenship/original_intent.html

"The phrase "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" was intended to exclude American-born persons from automatic citizenship whose allegiance to the United States was not complete. With illegal aliens who are unlawfully in the United States, their native country has a claim of allegiance on the child. Thus, the completeness of their allegiance to the United States is impaired, which therefore precludes automatic citizenship"

[epo]

From http://www.14thamendment.us/birthright_citizenship/original_intent.html

"The phrase "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" was intended to exclude American-born persons from automatic citizenship whose allegiance to the United States was not complete. With illegal aliens who are unlawfully in the United States, their native country has a claim of allegiance on the child. Thus, the completeness of their allegiance to the United States is impaired, which therefore precludes automatic citizenship"

You and your websites can claim intent all you want, but this is quite clear:

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and the State wherein they reside.

I'm not sure how much more clear it could be for you.

[Pitdoc]

Once again, the issue with your plan is the 14th Amendment of the Constitution. Those children have rights, as that is the law of the land whether you like it or not.

We need a well-thought out long-termimmigration plan, not a knee-jerk feel good "solution".

Those kids born here are citizens ,and if their parents are found to be illegal, they should be deported . Those kids can either be fed into the state system as orphans, or their parents can choose to take them back with them to their respective legal countries.
There are no constititutional "anchors" and states should enforce that. If the PARENTS are illegal , deport them, If a mother comes across the border to have a kid, if the cord isnt even cut yet , give her the option, take the kid back to your country, or give him up to his legal country.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

You and your websites can claim intent all you want, but this is quite clear:



I'm not sure how much more clear it could be for you.

"subject to the jurisdiction thereof"


Whats so unclear about that?

Heres a better explanation. If someone commits Murder in Texas and Flees to another state and gets caught, he faces the laws of Texas. The other state might not have the death penalty but Texas does, we cant pick and choose

[epo]

"subject to the jurisdiction thereof"


Whats so unclear about that?

Heres a better explanation. If someone commits Murder in Texas and Flees to another state and gets caught, he faces the laws of Texas. The other state might not have the death penalty but Texas does, we cant pick and choose

You do realize that the 14th Amendment is cited all of the time to the high court, and never have they thrown out the equal protections it grants.

[Barnaby Jones]

WF is adorable! He honestly thinks that immigration over the course of this nation's history has been some kind of well-managed process where everyone was accounted for!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

You do realize that the 14th Amendment is cited all of the time to the high court, and never have they thrown out the equal protections it grants.

In all fairness since Ginsburg, Sotomayor and soon to be Justice Kagan are in favor of using foreign law, they should be in agreement with Mexicos immigration laws then

[WRESTLINGFAN]

WF is adorable! He honestly thinks that immigration over the course of this nation's history has been some kind of well-managed process where everyone was accounted for!

I never said that !!!!

What I did say that the Ellis Island procedure was much more accurate and effective than whats going on today.

Guess you forgot the fact that people needed to have sponsors, be cleared of any contageous diseases and couldnt be a burden to society like your amigos are today

[epo]

In all fairness since Ginsburg, Sotomayor and soon to be Justice Kagan are in favor of using foreign law, they should be in agreement with Mexicos immigration laws then

Its nice to see that someone is reading Roger Ailes' talking points.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Its nice to see that someone is reading Roger Ailes' talking points.

You should love Ruppert Murdoch then. He wants amnesty for illegals


http://www.myfoxny.com/dpp/news/national/murdoch-bloomberg-promote-immigration-reform-20100624


YOU HEARD IT HERE EPO LOVES FOX NEWS!!!!!

[Barnaby Jones]

What I did say that the Ellis Island procedure was much more accurate and effective than whats going on today.

Guess you forgot the fact that people needed to have sponsors, be cleared of any contageous diseases and couldnt be a burden to society like your amigos are today

No way you're buying this as you typed it! Ellis Island was a clusterfuck!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

No way you're buying this as you typed it! Ellis Island was a clusterfuck!

Sure, bullets were flying everywhere and the disabled were thrown off the sides of the ships

[hanso]

http://www.10pix.ru/img1/2363/1799753.jpg

From an episode of Lost in Space called Castles In Space. A fucking silver Space Mexican!!

[Barnaby Jones]

Sure, bullets were flying everywhere and the disabled were thrown off the sides of the ships

He's losing it!

[Dude!]

http://www.10pix.ru/img1/2363/1799753.jpg

From an episode of Lost in Space called Castles In Space. A fucking silver Space Mexican!!

with very yellow teeth!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Yesterday on this week one of the topics was illegal immigration. Jorge Ramos CEO of univision of course sided with the illegals and actually said that there are "12 million people living in persecution" in the US.

The pity party doesnt work or help his cause. With an overwhelming majority of Americans opposed to illegal immigration he says something idiotic like that. He should stick to having programs with big breasted women giving the weather reports

[Barnaby Jones]

You've lost, WF!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

You've lost, WF!

I have nothing to worry about. I can never be deported. Its the ones "living in the shadows" who know that at any time they can be kicked out and return to a land where they piss in the same rivers they drink from

Heres a report of illegals affected by the recession

Sorry Jose you fucking failed!!!!! Go back to the shithole you came from


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ek5yKGhx8Xk

[Barnaby Jones]

You flail and fail!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

You flail and fail!

Shed your tears for these illegals Especially the deported ones. I dont!!!

Fuck em' They rolled the dice and lost

[Barnaby Jones]

You keep ranting and raving on and on about this as if you seriously expect to "win" or that you'll see significant change to illegal immigration! We won't! You're like Quixote over here!

[Syd]

How long until he approaches some paper bags and starts yelling that they might be illegal immigrants?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

How long until he approaches some paper bags and starts yelling that they might be illegal immigrants?

Speaking of paper bags these illegal alien women should wear them over their heads. Nothing sexy about a short fat ugly woman waddling around town with 3 jackpot babies and pushing a stroller

[Jujubees2]

Speaking of paper bags these illegal alien women should wear them over their heads. Nothing sexy about a short fat ugly woman waddling around town with 3 jackpot babies and pushing a stroller

Yeah, especially when the stroller was bought for her by us hardworking taxpayers!

[Barnaby Jones]

He's talking like America isn't land of the slobs, home of the fat! What a loon!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

He's talking like America isn't land of the slobs, home of the fat! What a loon!



thanks for proving my point douche!!! We already have enough sloths, why do we need millions more of them from the 3rd world ???

[Barnaby Jones]

Because they're better than you and we like them more!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Because they're better than you and we like them more!


until one of them rams a car into a family member of yours after a night of drinking ... Then what?

[Serpico1103]

until one of them rams a car into a family member of yours after a night of drinking ... Then what?

Collect the insurance and get a cuter younger woman...after a respectful mourning period.


Your hatred of illegals is based mostly in their ugliness and inability to drink and drive. Solid reasoning.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Collect the insurance and get a cuter younger woman...after a respectful mourning period.

Fixed it

Your dislike of illegal immigration is based upon that they are economic burdens, add to the increased bloating of the welfare state, contribute very little and take out of our social services without paying into it and the fact they broke the law. .

Good luck waiting on that 7 figure settlement!!!!

Since illegals have no insurance, you might be able to get his soccer Jerseys, Collection of Mariachi CDs, left over Cervezas in his fridge, picture of his wife and 6 kids he abandoned in Mexico and statue of Our Lady of Guadalupe

[Barnaby Jones]

until one of them rams a car into a family member of yours after a night of drinking ... Then what?

Why do you think immigration reform would keep people who would drive drunk from moving to this country? What exactly is your brilliant idea to keep drunk drivers from emigrating to America? Newsflash, pally-boy: tons of people coming here don't have any kind of criminal record!

You're really doing a terrible job of masking your thinly disguised racism and economic predjudice! You clearly have a hideous disdain for all illegals and view them as nothing but subhuman stereotypes, but we're supposed to believe that you would change simply if they were here legally. BULLSHIT. You hate these people whether they're here legally or illegally.

[Barnaby Jones]

Good luck waiting on that 7 figure settlement!!!!

Since illegals have no insurance, you might be able to get his soccer Jerseys, Collection of Mariachi CDs, left over Cervezas in his fridge, picture of his wife and 6 kids he abandoned in Mexico and statue of Our Lady of Guadalupe

What settlement? He said insurance! Boy, you really do have trouble reading English!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Why do you think immigration reform would keep people who would drive drunk from moving to this country? What exactly is your brilliant idea to keep drunk drivers from emigrating to America? Newsflash, pally-boy: tons of people coming here don't have any kind of criminal record!

Tons of them do have criminal records. You think all of them are pure as a fresh snowfall? Tons of them are illiterate in 2 languages. Whats your solution for a boat thats leaking and taking in water? LET MORE FUCKING PEOPLE ON THE BOAT!!!


BRILLIANT!!!!!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

What settlement? He said insurance! Boy, you really do have trouble reading English!

Illegals have no auto insurance.



Can't be more clear than that. Comprende ?

[Barnaby Jones]

Tons of them do have criminal records. Tons of them are illiterate in 2 languages. Whats your solution for a boat thats leaking and taking in water? LET MORE FUCKING PEOPLE ON THE BOAT!!!


BRILLIANT!!!!!

You don't want poor people here from the rest of the Americas, legally or illegally. Keep flogging this ridiculous bullshit that we could somehow prevent drunk drivers from moving here from those areas without effectively sealing off the borders to them! Keep describing them as ridiculous, insulting caricatures and then turn around and pretend your beef is ONLY with them being here illegally, you fucking fraud! Look up the stats of people who drive drunk more than once and aren't actually caught until they're in an accident! It's just more bullshit for you to dress up your hatred of people from the Americas, oh, but we're supposed to think otherwise because you'd lower yourself to fuck hot chicks from South America! How generous of you, you fucking scumfuck!

[Barnaby Jones]

Illegals have no auto insurance.



Can't be more clear than that. Comprende ?

Actually, man of them do! What's next, you gonna toss out "illegals don't pay taxes," too? Fucking chump. Please die ASAP!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Actually, man of them do! What's next, you gonna toss out "illegals don't pay taxes," too? Fucking chump. Please die ASAP!

Big deal they pay sales taxes when they buy diapers and beer.

Do you think the majority of them have a tax liability like we do?

I hope a drunken illegal hits you head on after watching the world cup!!! Fuckin douchebag


How Ironic would that be. Illegal alien supporter murdered by Illegal alien

[Barnaby Jones]

I laugh so fucking hard knowing that NO changes along the lines of the bullshit you spew here almost daily has any chance of coming to pass! I hope your impotent fury and frustration over it and your useless nothingness drives you into an early, angry and lonely grave! YOU'VE ALREADY "LOST" YOUR BULLSHIT FIGHT BEFORE YOU WERE BORN, ASSHOLE. LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Youre so fucking predicatable.

Venerate the illegal aliens and denegrate the ones paying their bills and cleaning up after the shit they leave behind.


A majority of the country actually sides with me, but youre in your little left of center leaning ron fez.net bubble so if it makes you feel happy, well Mazel tov. or in this case OLE !!!!!!!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Racism in alive and well.


SOUTH OF THE FUCKING BORDER!!!!!


Pot calling the kettle black or in this case brown

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-mexico-racism-20100705,0,1962746.story?

[Barnaby Jones]

Wipe your tears away, fatty! I'm sure you're not completely useless!

[Barnaby Jones]

Racism in alive and well.


SOUTH OF THE FUCKING BORDER!!!!!


Pot calling the kettle black or in this case brown

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-mexico-racism-20100705,0,1962746.story?

Where did anyone say Mexicans aren't ever racist? Goddamn, you are one confused, desperate, dense goofball. Yeah, we'll ignore your racism because other people are racist, too! Hahahahahahahahah!!!!!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Where did anyone say Mexicans aren't ever racist? Goddamn, you are one confused, desperate, dense goofball. Yeah, we'll ignore your racism because other people are racist, too! Hahahahahahahahah!!!!!

What racism douchebag? Is your memory that short that you don't remember that I want all illegals out including Russian and Irish? In which there are also a lot of especially in NY

Or you didnt know that they aren't brown?

[Barnaby Jones]

Yeah, we've heard your bullshit excuses plenty! You're not fooling anyone with these meaningless platitudes but then you spend 99% of your time in this thread trafficking in ugly, racist insults and stereotypes towards Latin Americans regardless of whether you're talking about illegals or not!

Cue him talking about how he'd love to fuck a Brazilian girl in 3, 2, 1....

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Yeah, we've heard your bullshit excuses plenty! You're not fooling anyone with these meaningless platitudes but then you spend 99% of your time in this thread trafficking in ugly, racist insults and stereotypes towards Latin Americans regardless of whether you're talking about illegals or not!

Cue him talking about how he'd love to fuck a legal Brazilian girl in 3, 2, 1....

A huge majority of illegals are from Where?????

I welcome legal immigrants no matter where they are from. The illegal ones whether from Mexico City or Moscow broke the fucking law and don't deserve social services, entitlements or Amnesty

[Barnaby Jones]

A huge majority of illegals are from Where?????

You go off on your racist little tirades even when you're not talking about illegals! Christ, I think everyone would have at least a shred of twisted respect for you if you just came out and admitted you fucking hate Mexicans in general!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

You go off on your racist little tirades even when you're not talking about illegals! Christ, I think everyone would have at least a shred of twisted respect for you if you just came out and admitted you fucking hate Mexicans in general!

So pointing out facts makes someone racist?

Most rapes are committed by men. That means I want all men persecuted? Most cases of child abuse committed by women. Lets burn them all at the stake according to you

Who said I hated Mexicans


http://www.flash-screen.com/free-wallpaper/uploads/200608/imgs/1155923053.jpg


Whats so fucking hard to understand that illegal aliens should not be rewarded with citizenship and access to social services?


If it makes you happy. Any one named Boris or Colin here thats here illegally KICK THEM THE FUCK OUT !!!

[Barnaby Jones]

Yeah, way to bring her up...after someone else had to point her out after you deemed Central American women to mostly looking like subhuman monsters! Keep spinning, WF; nobody buys into any of your shit. I said you hate Mexicans, because it's clear that you do! You keep whining and crying that you "hate" all illegals (because you just fucking hate poor people in general, too), yet why don't we see you using your amazing internet detective skills to post stories about non-Latin American illegals committing crimes? Don't give me the excuse of how one group outweighs the other; you basically only post one and nothing from the others! Just fucking cop to it! Stop living a fucking lie? You don't want poor Mexicans or other poor Latin Americans here legally or illegally!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Yeah, way to bring her up...after someone else had to point her out after you deemed Central American women to mostly looking like subhuman monsters! Keep spinning, WF; nobody buys into any of your shit. I said you hate Mexicans, because it's clear that you do! You keep whining and crying that you "hate" all illegals (because you just fucking hate poor people in general, too), yet why don't we see you using your amazing internet detective skills to post stories about non-Latin American illegals committing crimes? Don't give me the excuse of how one group outweighs the other; you basically only post one and nothing from the others! Just fucking cop to it! Stop living a fucking lie? You don't want poor Mexicans or other poor Latin Americans here legally or illegally!

And theres a lot of white woman who look atrocious!! Whats your fucking point? Do a google search about illegal alien crimes in the news section and you will see that about 99% of them are done by hispanics. Its not racism xenophobia or hatred ITS THE FUCKING FACTS. You let emotion run wild and when shown facts, the same tired old lines of racism are spewed out.


A majority of insider traders and white collar criminals are white men. Do I hate all white men? Of course not
'
Your game is old and worn out.


Heres the fucking truth which you can't seem to grasp. ALL ILLEGALS NO MATTER WHAT THEIR SKIN COLOR IS SHOULD NOT BE ENTITLED TO OUR HARD EARNED TAX DOLLARS

[Barnaby Jones]

This thread's been around a year! What bets do I hear as to how many stories about non-Hispanic illegals here in that time? 1? 3? Hell, let's be generous...5?

Everyone who lives and/or works in this country is "entitled" to my tax dollars!

[epo]

Heres the fucking truth which you can't seem to grasp. ALL ILLEGALS NO MATTER WHAT THEIR SKIN COLOR IS SHOULD NOT BE ENTITLED TO OUR HARD EARNED TAX DOLLARS

Here is a question: The government's tax revenues are only net positive with one demographic: illegal immigrants. So that being said, why are you entitled to their hard earned tax dollars?

[hanso]

Youre so fucking predicatable.

Venerate the illegal aliens and denegrate the ones paying their bills and cleaning up after the shit they leave behind.


A majority of the country actually sides with me, but youre in your little left of center leaning ron fez.net bubble so if it makes you feel happy, well Mazel tov. or in this case OLE !!!!!!!

Bush Jr. wanted all illegal aliens to become legal just after 911 and stayed that way through his two terms. Murdock is along those lines as well.

Hate to tell you this WF but your best bet on any reform lies with those left of center.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Illegal aliens are a net drain for this society. Any taxes they pay they take more of in social services and costs the government more.

Again the majority of illegals in this country are hispanic and the crime by illegals are done by them. Its not racist to show taht they commit crimes.


Again we already have our own home grown filth, why do we need millions more barrelling across the border


Giving illegals Amnesty might increase revenue but the costs will shoot up exponentially. Think the country is overcrowded now. With chain migration we could reach half a billion people

Why do illegals get a free pass according to most of you on this thread? They do not deserve amnesty, citizenship or anything else for breaking the law. Why is it so hard to accept that?


What if 20 million Americans decided not to pay taxes. Do you think the gov't would just throw its arms up in the air and say fuck it? Good luck woth that, they would use the wrath of the IRS and go after every one of them. In a civilized society we cant pick and choose which laws to break and expect to be rewarded when caught


Bush 43 is wrong on illegal immigration he lost a lot of support with the GOP on that. Murdoch Bloomberg and others want a permanent underclass in this country.

Ayn Rand and Milton Friednam warned against having illegal immigration and a welfare state.

[epo]

Ayn Rand and Milton Friednam warned against having illegal immigration and a welfare state.

Really? Ayn Rand?

Stop it.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Really? Ayn Rand?

Stop it.

Yes really!!!!


Don't take her word for it. Even the CBO 's report states that illegals are a drain to our society. Damn those right wing extremists in the CBO They are probably being financed by Fox news and talk radio


http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/stories/2007/12/17/daily19.html

[Barnaby Jones]

Read your own source, dingus!

The study pulled together reports from the past five years, using data from sources including the Pew Hispanic Center, the Rand Corp., the U.S. Department of Homeland Security and various universities. The Congressional study also incorporated facts from states, including Arizona, but its authors acknowledged there was no aggregate estimate that could be applied to the entire country.

Illegals are a net gain for the country, period. If that wasn't the case you'd see WF's moronically hypocritical police state garbage already having come to pass! Between the taxes they do pay, their spending and the ability to hire them cheaper they ultimately pose an economic plus to the country. That's the whole reason they're here.

Now, is that right? Fuck no, though not for the hateful reasons that fuel WF's bile. It's wrong because it's our country encouraging the exploitation of the poor! The smart and right thing to do is to come down hard on any and all businesses and property owners that are caught exploiting illegals! Shit like locking down the borders with the military and hunting down illegals is completely backwards!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Read your own source, dingus!



Illegals are a net gain for the country, period. If that wasn't the case you'd see WF's moronically hypocritical police state garbage already having come to pass! Between the taxes they do pay, their spending and the ability to hire them cheaper they ultimately pose an economic plus to the country. That's the whole reason they're here.

Now, is that right? Fuck no, though not for the hateful reasons that fuel WF's bile. It's wrong because it's our country encouraging the exploitation of the poor! The smart and right thing to do is to come down hard on any and all businesses and property owners that are caught exploiting illegals! Shit like locking down the borders with the military and hunting down illegals is completely backwards!

Theyre fucking illegal. no way of spinning or trying to work this to your advantage ILLEGAL!!! GET IT?

Guess you didnt see how they drain social services, hence the net loss. Besides do we really know the amt of illegals? 12 million is a conservative estimate. I would say that there are at least 20 million


Want more sources? Read on

http://cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

http://www.usillegalaliens.com/impacts_of_illegal_immigration_economic_costs.html

http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/immigrationnaturalizatio/a/caillegals.htm

When an illegal pumps out another jackpot baby and doesnt pay for anything who bears the brunt of them? Tax dollars are being spent on educating them and in most cases more than a native born student due to the higher cost of ESL and other programs

We the taxpayers are victims to these people


Your beloved Chuck Schumer wants a police state by mandating we all have biometric ID cards. Newsflash, we unfortunately are living in a police state with the patriot act something Hussein extended

Agreed punish the employers and landlords. How many times must I say that? Deny them work a place to live and social services and there is no need to "hunt them down" they will leave. I'm in complete agreement punish the corporations and businesses


Having a secured border will inhibit them from coming. Israel does a damn good job keeping palestinean suicide bombers out. While a few always get thru thats the case with everything they are able to keep the garbage out without being a police state

Amazing during the 08 Election cycle all the fraud Republicans were for open borders at one time but it was Ron Paul who was rock solid all the time on enforcing the law, no amnesty or public services to them

You can cry and complain all you want. The Dems dont have the votes and the American people will not support "Comprehensive Reform" aka Amnesty. With 10% unemployment, the construction industry alone is double it would be national suicide to legalize them.


Its disrespectful to the legal immigrant who went thru the procedures just for someone to jump ahead of them.

I know you hate the facts and logic but come on, the best and brightest aren't coming here. An uneducated illiterate peasant is not an atom splitter or a building architect

[Alice S. Fuzzybutt]

Now, is that right? Fuck no, though not for the hateful reasons that fuel WF's bile. It's wrong because it's our country encouraging the exploitation of the poor!

THAT is why most immigrants from Mexico, Central, and South America come to this country. The US Government and western corporations go in and, say, drill for oil. They don't pay well (my husband was paid $200/month to work at a petroleum company in the Ecuadorian Rain Forest). It's not much to live on; even by Ecuadorian standards.

THAT is why SO MANY people come to the US-- legally or not. The US took advantage of these countries for their resources and now these SA leaders (many of whom are considered "working class") are saying "NO! We don't want the US or big corporations here."

Chavez, Evo Morales, and, to a certain extent, Rafael Correa are considered "threats" to the US because they don't want the US in their countries.

These leaders want to empower their poor and make their lives better ON THEIR OWN. For that that they are called "threats to the US" and "socialist/fascists."

I'm so glad I live in a country where we're well off enough NOT to have a coup d'etat, say, when, they up the prices of public transportation.

[Barnaby Jones]

Alice is cool!

Should we start a tally as to how many different sources WF can link to that only crunch the numbers of the estimates as to what illegals cost the country but then very conspicuously leave out any of the estimates as to the totals of what the country "makes" off of them? The best he can do is keep tossing out the disparity between what they cost and the estimated taxes they pay, as if taxes are the only way this country makes money off of illegals! How convenient!

Though we should take it easy on WF! This issue is very close to his heart and digging up these doom and gloom pieces make him very emotional!

http://i49.tinypic.com/2cxjfap.jpg

[Barnaby Jones]

Your beloved Chuck Schumer wants a police state by mandating we all have biometric ID cards. Newsflash, we unfortunately are living in a police state with the patriot act

My "beloved Chuck Schumer?" What the fuck are you babbling about? How many crazy conclusions can you come to on a daily basis? NEWSFLASH: the mistakes we've already made doesn't mean we should compound them!

Agreed punish the employers and landlords. How many times must I say that? Deny them work a place to live and social services and there is no need to "hunt them down" they will leave

Boy, it's weird how you can't be bothered of how you can't inundate this thread with stories of businesses and property owners being caught exploiting illegals and instead focus almost completely on stories that make Latin American illegals all look like dangerous monsters! How kooky! You claim everything else is what you have the "real problem" with, yet you're always just in here complaining about amnesty and illegals like they're a threat to our safety!

Having a secured border will inhibit them from coming. Israel does a damn good job keeping palestinean suicide bombers out. While a few always get thru thats the case with everything they are able to keep the garbage out without being a police state

This is insane! You actually WANT Israel's need to militarize their borders and have them locked down!!??!?!? AND you propose this while complaining about wasted money...crazy! Using the armed forces isn't free, bub!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

the mistakes we've already made doesn't mean we should compound them!




Yes mistakes of the 1986 Amnesty bill aka Simpson Mazzoli. It has compounded into todays mess

Why do we need to keep pissing money in Iraq, Afghanistan and every other place on the planet. 50K troops in Germany isnt needed for example, That money will be well spent here to secure the borders.

The billions wasted on entitlements for illegals isnt free either

[Barnaby Jones]

So you don't actually want to curtail excessive defense spending...you just want to reroute it! Brilliant!

And you keep using buzzwords like "entitlements," in a futile effort to separate the illegals as if they're not putting anything back into the economy. Newsflash: the only kind of immigration reform that makes sense would be the kind that streamlines the immigration process so that most of the illegals would still be here, except now as legals! Even the numbers you yourself post don't show any kind of economic readjustment that would come anywhere even remotely close to covering the cost of using the armed forces to lock down our borders forever! Stop pretending like you're worked up over government waste and spending, since all you're advocating is even more of it with the borders occupation nonsense! You're replacing one area of government waste with the biggest area of government waste!

[A.J.]

Having a secured border will inhibit them from coming. Israel does a damn good job keeping palestinean suicide bombers out. While a few always get thru thats the case with everything they are able to keep the garbage out without being a police state

Maybe if we continually launched air strikes into Mexico, we might achieve the same result.

The only possible way to achieve a truly "secure border" would be to put land mines across our borders like the Korean DMZ.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

So you don't actually want to curtail excessive defense spending...you just want to reroute it! Brilliant!

And you keep using buzzwords like "entitlements," in a futile effort to separate the illegals as if they're not putting anything back into the economy. Newsflash: the only kind of immigration reform that makes sense would be the kind that streamlines the immigration process so that most of the illegals would still be here, except now as legals! Even the numbers you yourself post don't show any kind of economic readjustment that would come anywhere even remotely close to covering the cost of using the armed forces to lock down our borders forever! Stop pretending like you're worked up over government waste and spending, since all you're advocating is even more of it with the borders occupation nonsense! You're replacing one area of government waste with the biggest area of government waste!

Youre comparing the cost btwn having 100k troops in Afghanistan and Iraq 8000 miles away to having 15-20K on the border?

1200 Guard troops sent by Hussein is a waste of time and money because they aren't allowed to intercept, instead they are giving bottled water to Juan and Consuela.

If someone broke into your house would you let them raid your fridge and relax in your recliner or would you do everything possible to get them out and keep them out

As a sovereign nation we are not allowed to enforce our borders? Just admit you want an open society Mr Soros


To streamline the process is simple. Deny the illegals any opportunity and they will leave on their own. Politicians are scared, Corporations still want to pay slave wages. Until those factors are dealt with it will be a neverending cycle.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Maybe if we continually launched air strikes into Mexico, we might achieve the same result.

The only possible way to achieve a truly "secure border" would be to put land mines across our borders like the Korean DMZ.

While I dont expect little brown suicide bombers to hop across, If they see rows of tanks, and armored vehicles in front of them they would think twice about coming over.

[Son of Muta]

Again we already have our own home grown filth, why do we need millions more barrelling across the border


•Leviticus 25:45-46 "Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, . . . and they shall be your possession . . . they shall be your bondmen forever."
•Genesis 9:25 "And he [Noah] said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren."
•Exodus 21:2,7 "If thou buy an Hebrew servant, six years he shall serve: and in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing. . . . And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the manservants do."
•Joel 3:8 "And I will sell your sons and your daughters into the hand of the children of Judah, and they shall sell them to the Sabeans, to a people far off: for the Lord hath spoken it."
•Luke 12:47,48 [Jesus speaking] "And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes."
•Colossians 3:22 "Servants, obey in all things your masters."

Are these your favorite passages, WF?

[Jujubees2]

While I dont expect little brown suicide bombers to hop across, If they see rows of tanks, and armored vehicles in front of them they would think twice about coming over.

Do you have any idea how long the border is? There aren't enough armored vehicles in the world to secure the border (and don't forget the northern border with Canada too!)

WF, aren't you being a tad optimistic by saying if we deny the illegals opportunity they will just march back home? After all they went through to get here I don't think it would be that easy. And the businesses that hire them aren't going to just stop.

While Obama's plan isn't perfect, it does require anyone currently here illegally to pay a fine, do community service and learn English.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Are these your favorite passages, WF?

Yes our own home grown rapists, murderers, drug dealers, etc.


Amazing how everyone mocks religion on this board but uses it in their favor when trying to further their agenda.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Do you have any idea how long the border is? There aren't enough armored vehicles in the world to secure the border (and don't forget the northern border with Canada too!)

WF, aren't you being a tad optimistic by saying if we deny the illegals opportunity they will just march back home? After all they went through to get here I don't think it would be that easy. And the businesses that hire them aren't going to just stop.

While Obama's plan isn't perfect, it does require anyone currently here illegally to pay a fine, do community service and learn English.

Not just use armored vehicles, thats one part of it. Using reinforcements and other means as well.

If no one hires them, no one rents to them and they cant access our entitlement system do you really think they would want to stay here? It wouldn't be worth it. Already there are illegals leaving Arizona in droves.There are about 20 other states drafting similar laws Enforcement works

As I said, there will be hardship waivers for them. If they are supposed to be working what community service will they do? While it would be great for them to learn English no one can be forced to learn any language

[Son of Muta]

Yes our own home grown rapists, murderers, drug dealers, etc.


Amazing how everyone mocks religion on this board but uses it in their favor when trying to further their agenda.

You're damn right I mock religion. I do so because religion is bullshit. And that is my right to say that, no matter what you neo-con bible thumpers think.

Pro-slavery bible verses, like the ones I posted, were cited by many churches in the South during the Civil War, and were used by some theologians in the Dutch Reformed Church to justify apartheid in South Africa. There are more pro-slavery verses than I have cited here.

[JimBeam]

WF, aren't you being a tad optimistic by saying if we deny the illegals opportunity they will just march back home? After all they went through to get here I don't think it would be that easy. And the businesses that hire them aren't going to just stop.

But haven't they been saying that since the economy is so bad that's kinda what is happening ?

That for some it's no longer an option to work here and send the money home.

[Dude!]

You're damn right I mock religion. I do so because religion is bullshit. And that is my right to say that, no matter what you neo-con bible thumpers think.

Pro-slavery bible verses, like the ones I posted, were cited by many churches in the South during the Civil War, and were used by some theologians in the Dutch Reformed Church to justify apartheid in South Africa. There are more pro-slavery verses than I have cited here.

there is an old testament
and a new testament

the old one is f'ed up
no doubt

Jesus is in the
new testament
and he is just
and righteous

old testament = jews = bad
new testament = christians = good
(at least in theory)

[WRESTLINGFAN]

You're damn right I mock religion. I do so because religion is bullshit. And that is my right to say that, no matter what you neo-con bible thumpers think.

Pro-slavery bible verses, like the ones I posted, were cited by many churches in the South during the Civil War, and were used by some theologians in the Dutch Reformed Church to justify apartheid in South Africa. There are more pro-slavery verses than I have cited here.

I guess you didnt read any of my posts saying we should withdraw from Iraq/Afghanistan. or wanting the patriot act repealed....Neocons hate me. I WOULD NOT BE WELCOMED AT THE WEEKLY STANDARD

Also that I criticize the church for wanting open Borders im not the one quoting

[Jujubees2]

http://www.amiright.com/album-cover-themes/images/album-John-Lennon-Imagine-Original-Soundtrack.jpg

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace

You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one

[WRESTLINGFAN]

AZ to the feds. Bring it on bytchezZ!!!! They already lost when the ultra left 9th circuit upheld a law cracking down on employers who hire illegals in AZ.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100706/ap_on_re_us/us_immigration_enforcement_lawsuit

[Syd]

AZ to the feds. Bring it on bytchezZ!!!! They already lost when the ultra left 9th circuit upheld a law cracking down on employers who hire illegals in AZ.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100706/ap_on_re_us/us_immigration_enforcement_lawsuit

The law violates the Constitution. You know, the thing you constantly fetishize as being perfect....but, whatever. Arizona is a failed state and in a decade or two it'll look like Michigan when they run out of water. Even if it comes at the persecution of a few swarthies living there I'm pretty happy to see the conniption fit coming from that state.

edit:
looks like it is sliding a bit faster:

37 Michigan 34,025
38 Montana 34,004
39 Georgia 33,786
40 Indiana 33,725
41 Alabama 33,096
42 New Mexico 32,992
43 Arizona 32,935
44 West Virginia 32,219
45 Arkansas 31,946
46 Kentucky 31,883
47 South Carolina 31,799
48 Idaho 31,632
49 Utah 30,875
50 Mississippi 30,103

how is basing your entire economy off of real estate working out for you, AZ

[WRESTLINGFAN]

The law violates the Constitution. You know, the thing you constantly fetishize as being perfect....but, whatever. Arizona is a failed state and in a decade or two it'll look like Michigan when they run out of water. Even if it comes at the persecution of a few swarthies living there I'm pretty happy to see the conniption fit coming from that state.

edit:
looks like it is sliding a bit faster:

37 Michigan 34,025
38 Montana 34,004
39 Georgia 33,786
40 Indiana 33,725
41 Alabama 33,096
42 New Mexico 32,992
43 Arizona 32,935
44 West Virginia 32,219
45 Arkansas 31,946
46 Kentucky 31,883
47 South Carolina 31,799
48 Idaho 31,632
49 Utah 30,875
50 Mississippi 30,103

how is basing your entire economy off of real estate working out for you, AZ

The law simply mirrors federal law. Now if cops were able to deport illegals themselves then you would have a point there.

There are a lot of failed States, look at CA 30 Billion plus in the red. Yea some paradise

[Syd]

The law simply mirrors federal law. Now if cops were able to deport illegals themselves then you would have a point there.

There are a lot of failed States, look at CA 30 Billion plus in the red. Yea some paradise

California at least has a viable production sector, even if you throw out agriculture.

Also, if the law simply "mirrors" the federal law it's still unconstitutional. States can't interact directly with other nations.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

A few years ago Pat Buchanan called for the impeachment of Dubya over his failure to secure the borders. What Obama said in his lecture stating that the borders can't be secured. What he meant was that he refuses to seal the border. He's violating his oath of office to protect and defend the constitution. He is violating article 4 section 4.

Of course there will be no impeachment proceedings

[JimBeam]

The thing I don't get is what in the Constitution this law impacts.

If you say it leads to racial profiling then that can be turned against every law.

DWI check points will now be unconstitutional because you might stop and find somebody that doesn't belong in the country ?

We're a country that constantly puts innocent people in jail, thus violating their rights, yet we don't stop arresting people.

[Syd]

It's like 2000 miles of inhospitable area. We'd be spending money and having to raise taxes to secure the border, as well as having open military presence on our own soil.

So, not only does it become a BIG GOVERNMENT TAX AND SPEND thing but now it becomes a little un-American to have troops armed and ready in our own land without, you know, an actual war to be involved with.

Just admit you want someone like Putin to swoop in and be the big authoritarian you secretly swoon for.

[booster11373]

there is an old testament
and a new testament

the old one is f'ed up
no doubt

Jesus is in the
new testament
and he is just
and righteous

old testament = jews = bad
new testament = christians = good
(at least in theory)

This makes as much sense as religion

[WRESTLINGFAN]

It's like 2000 miles of inhospitable area. We'd be spending money and having to raise taxes to secure the border, as well as having open military presence on our own soil.

So, not only does it become a BIG GOVERNMENT TAX AND SPEND thing but now it becomes a little un-American to have troops armed and ready in our own land without, you know, an actual war to be involved with.

Just admit you want someone like Putin to swoop in and be the big authoritarian you secretly swoon for.

Article 4 section 4 states clearly

The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence.


The Mexican government is knowlingly exporting their unwanted here. The drug violence and cartels isnt a violent invasion? Armed smugllers of humans aren't a threat?

Do we as citizens of this country have a right to be a sovereign nation with defined borders? Again to make it simple, Would you allow this anarchy on your property or will do you everything to keep your property secure and determine who you want to enter your home?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

http://www.amiright.com/album-cover-themes/images/album-John-Lennon-Imagine-Original-Soundtrack.jpg

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace

You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one



Those words sent him to an early grave.

[Drew85]

please delete

[foodcourtdruide]

lol oh god, not the "we're getting invaded" argument again.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

lol oh god, not the "we're getting invaded" argument again.

Which part of illegal isnt clear to you?


What laws do you want to pick and choose to break?

Do you expect to get rewarded if caught?

Calling these people honest is a joke because they have committed about 5 or 6 different crimes.


Coming to this country is a privilege, not a human right

Shall I type en Espanol?

Can't wait to see Holder, Hussein and Big Momma Napolitano with egg on their mugs after they lose

[Dude!]

please delete

i read your post
before you deleted it

shame on you

[Drew85]

:p I pmed it, it was slanted but it had some good parts of it.

I want people to come here legally, or can they at leaste come here on work visa's? but people no matter what they think about illegals shouldn't take it into their own hands.

http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert/border-violence-and-immigration-ariz

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Hussein and his crew of thugs are going to poke the stick in the cage one too many times. I can almost be certain he will shred the constitution and sign an executive order granting them Amnesty

He really has no intention of looking out for the citizens of this country and just wants 20 million new Democrat voters and 20 million members of the recipient class, more dependents on social programs.

[foodcourtdruide]

Article 4 section 4 states clearly

The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence.


The Mexican government is knowlingly exporting their unwanted here. The drug violence and cartels isnt a violent invasion? Armed smugllers of humans aren't a threat?

Do we as citizens of this country have a right to be a sovereign nation with defined borders? Again to make it simple, Would you allow this anarchy on your property or will do you everything to keep your property secure and determine who you want to enter your home?

You are trying to incorporate one argument everyone agrees with, into another argument that is highly debatable in this country.

You will have a hard time finding people disagreeing that the Mexican governments actions are questionable or that the people of Arizona need to be protected from drug cartels coming over the border. However, what does this have to do with illegal immigration as a whole? Allowing illegal immigrants to live and work in this country is a very different argument than being pro-Mexican drug cartels and the Mexican government.

[foodcourtdruide]

Which part of illegal isnt clear to you?


What laws do you want to pick and choose to break?

Do you expect to get rewarded if caught?

Calling these people honest is a joke because they have committed about 5 or 6 different crimes.


Coming to this country is a privilege, not a human right

Shall I type en Espanol?

Can't wait to see Holder, Hussein and Big Momma Napolitano with egg on their mugs after they lose

Where did I say illegal immigrants should get rewarded if caught? Are you having an imaginary conversation with me? I just think it's an absurd hyperbole to say we are getting invaded.

[Barnaby Jones]

Where did I say illegal immigrants should get rewarded if caught? Are you having an imaginary conversation with me? I just think it's an absurd hyperbole to say we are getting invaded.

This should be the form response to every WF post here!

[hanso]

Bush 43 is wrong on illegal immigration he lost a lot of support with the GOP on that.

If so many are on your side over this. Then why didn't they throw him out of office? It was early on he was pressing this.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Illegals and their jackpot babies cost taxpayers over 100 billion a year. NET DRAIN ON SOCIETY!!!!


http://www.fairus.org/site/DocServer/USCostStudy_2010.pdf?docID=4921

[WRESTLINGFAN]

If so many are on your side over this. Then why didn't they throw him out of office? It was early on he was pressing this.

In 2007 a majority of his voters said fuck no to McCain Kennedy

[Barnaby Jones]

Illegals and their jackpot babies cost taxpayers over 100 billion a year. NET DRAIN ON SOCIETY!!!!


http://www.fairus.org/site/DocServer/USCostStudy_2010.pdf?docID=4921

Any point in asking if there are any estimates in that source as to what illegals actually contribute to the US economy in the same time?

WF are you opposed to amnesty under any circumstances? What if it was part of a total overhaul of the immigration system? Let's say you had the border temporarily being secured by the military (essentially temporarily shut down for the most part while the necessary reform takes place) while the immigration process was reformed and streamlined and the government cracked down on businesses that exploited illegals; wouldn't it make sense to offer an amnesty as part of that to effectively "start fresh?" Then you get as many illegals as possible on the books so that they're officially here as citizens and paying into the system. Doesn't that make more sense then wasting time and resources tracking them down and throwing them out? Surely you can't be opposed to something like that!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I am against all blanket amnesties. Simpson mazzoli was meant to be a 1 time thing and congress assured that they would crack down on border security and punish employers who hire illegals. As proven mass amnesty causes more illegal immigration.

Most of the illegals are hispanic and from Mexico/Central America a huge majority of them are unskilled and would not make enough to have a federal tax liability. Even if they were paid minimum wage they would not pay income taxes.

That study by fair calculated the costs of illegals as well as the very little they contribute and as a result theres your loss of over 100 billion

here are the key facts

Illegal immigration costs U.S. taxpayers about $113 billion a year at the federal, state and

local level. The bulk of the costs — some $84.2 billion — are absorbed by state and local

governments.



The annual outlay that illegal aliens cost U.S. taxpayers is an average amount per native headed

household of $1,117. The fiscal impact per household varies considerably because

the greatest share of the burden falls on state and local taxpayers whose burden depends on

the size of the illegal alien population in that locality



Education for the children of illegal aliens constitutes the single largest cost to taxpayers, at

an annual price tag of nearly $52 billion. Nearly all of those costs are absorbed by state and

local governments.



At the federal level, about one-third of outlays are matched by tax collections from illegal

aliens. At the state and local level, an average of less than 5 percent of the public costs

associated with illegal immigration is recouped through taxes collected from illegal aliens.



Most illegal aliens do not pay income taxes. Among those who do, much of the revenues

collected are refunded to the illegal aliens when they file tax returns. Many are also claiming

tax credits resulting in payments from the U.S. Treasury.

[Jujubees2]

Those words sent him to an early grave.

Yeah but at least it was at the hands of an AMERICAN. No dirty illegal shot John Lennon!

[sailor]

My favorite part of the coming federal challenge to the Arizona law is the Feds complaining it places to much burden on the federal government because they'll have to process all the illegals that will be uncovered by enforcement of the law. Yeah, they're complaining that the law will actually be effective.

Whichever side of whatever you're on, that's just silly.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Yeah but at least it was at the hands of an AMERICAN. No dirty illegal shot John Lennon!

There goes the line that illegals do the Jobs Americans wont do

[foodcourtdruide]

I am against all blanket amnesties. Simpson mazzoli was meant to be a 1 time thing and congress assured that they would crack down on border security and punish employers who hire illegals. As proven mass amnesty causes more illegal immigration.

Most of the illegals are hispanic and from Mexico/Central America a huge majority of them are unskilled and would not make enough to have a federal tax liability. Even if they were paid minimum wage they would not pay income taxes.

That study by fair calculated the costs of illegals as well as the very little they contribute and as a result theres your loss of over 100 billion

here are the key facts

Illegal immigration costs U.S. taxpayers about $113 billion a year at the federal, state and

local level. The bulk of the costs — some $84.2 billion — are absorbed by state and local

governments.



The annual outlay that illegal aliens cost U.S. taxpayers is an average amount per native headed

household of $1,117. The fiscal impact per household varies considerably because

the greatest share of the burden falls on state and local taxpayers whose burden depends on

the size of the illegal alien population in that locality



Education for the children of illegal aliens constitutes the single largest cost to taxpayers, at

an annual price tag of nearly $52 billion. Nearly all of those costs are absorbed by state and

local governments.



At the federal level, about one-third of outlays are matched by tax collections from illegal

aliens. At the state and local level, an average of less than 5 percent of the public costs

associated with illegal immigration is recouped through taxes collected from illegal aliens.



Most illegal aliens do not pay income taxes. Among those who do, much of the revenues

collected are refunded to the illegal aliens when they file tax returns. Many are also claiming

tax credits resulting in payments from the U.S. Treasury.

NOTE to WF: These are all highly debatable numbers as there is no cut and dry answer for the negative impact (if there is any) of illegal immigrants in this country.

Here's a less gloom and doom answer to the cost of illegal immigrants:

http://www.factcheck.org/2009/04/cost-of-illegal-immigrants/

Also, please note that the U.S. born children of illegal immigrants are not illegal immigrants.

[Jujubees2]

Also, please note that the U.S. born children of illegal immigrants are not illegal immigrants.

I believe that WF like the term "Jackpot Babies"

[foodcourtdruide]

Here's an article that sums up the debate pretty well:
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/illegal-immigrants-cost-us-100-billion-year-group/story?id=10699317&page=1

I know WF wants to believe that illegal immigrants are a drain on society, I just really hope that people on this board (and in this country) see thru the clearly partisan arguments that studies like the one from FAIR puts out. A lot of their solutions to illegal immigrations would be cutting off our nose to spite our face. I agree that immigration should be reformed and the borderes should be further secured, but not at the point of actually becoming a fiscal drain on our country and making a lot of very poor/hard-working peoples' lives even harder than they already are.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

NOTE to WF: These are all highly debatable numbers as there is no cut and dry answer for the negative impact (if there is any) of illegal immigrants in this country.

Here's a less gloom and doom answer to the cost of illegal immigrants:

http://www.factcheck.org/2009/04/cost-of-illegal-immigrants/

Also, please note that the U.S. born children of illegal immigrants are not illegal immigrants.

There are are a lot of illegals who bring their children over with them, hence illegal alien children. I dont think FAIR was just using numbers pulled out of the air.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Here's an article that sums up the debate pretty well:
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/illegal-immigrants-cost-us-100-billion-year-group/story?id=10699317&page=1

I know WF wants to believe that illegal immigrants are a drain on society, I just really hope that people on this board (and in this country) see thru the clearly partisan arguments that studies like the one from FAIR puts out. A lot of their solutions to illegal immigrations would be cutting off our nose to spite our face. I agree that immigration should be reformed and the borderes should be further secured, but not at the point of actually becoming a fiscal drain on our country and making a lot of very poor/hard-working peoples' lives even harder than they already are.

Heres the issue with illegals. They believe they have carte blanche and are immune to the laws. they believe that they work long hours with low pay gives them immunity to do whatever they want and take from our society.

Its a loss for us that they are here. Think of it like a business if your expenses are more than your revenue/earnings you dont make a profit


There are 46 states with huge defecits look at the states with a large population of illegals like CA and NY they are so far in the red

We already allow 1 million people here legally every year. We have finite resources with a population of 310 million allowing mass amnesty will shoot the population up even more. With a crumbling infrastructure and limited space it will look like India in the coming decades


In that rpt what makes it worse is that it's not spread evenly. people in iowa don't have nearly as much to worry about as CA, NY AZ, TX and others

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I will agree that they contribute to the economy, Unfortunately its not to our economy. Mexico receives on average 30 billion dollars a year in remittances, Thats the 3rd largest form of revenue behind oil and tourism.

Obama care just got passed. Imagine 20 million people said they are not going to oblige, Do you think the gov't will really let that slide?

These sob stories of illegals sending money home to feed their 6 children in their native countries does not merit any honor. Poor people having many children are some of the most immoral people on the planet. Doesnt matter if they are illegal aliens, people on welfare here or people in Calcutta or Africa

Also the sob stories about breaking up families is nothing but an issue to tear at the heart strings of people. Any one being deported can bring their children with them. All we hear is about family values with illegals, fine!! The entire family can be together in their wn country

[foodcourtdruide]

Heres the issue with illegals. They believe they have carte blanche and are immune to the laws. they believe that they work long hours with low pay gives them immunity to do whatever they want and take from our society.

Its a loss for us that they are here. Think of it like a business if your expenses are more than your revenue/earnings you dont make a profit


There are 46 states with huge defecits look at the states with a large population of illegals like CA and NY they are so far in the red

We already allow 1 million people here legally every year. We have finite resources with a population of 310 million allowing mass amnesty will shoot the population up even more. With a crumbling infrastructure and limited space it will look like India in the coming decades


In that rpt what makes it worse is that it's not spread evenly. people in iowa don't have nearly as much to worry about as CA, NY AZ, TX and others

Here it sounds like you are trying to use logic to defend your points, however, using logic I could say the following:

- Illegal immigrants that come here as adults to work are a HUGE gain for our society because we are basically providing a poor working class WITHOUT ever having had to pay for their education or medical costs as children.

- While most illegal immigrants do not pay income tax, they do pay sales taxes and how much income tax do you think people in their economic status pay?

- Illegal immigrants use less social services than legal citizens in their economic group for fear of deportation.

See WF? There's no clear-cut answer. There are logical ways illegal immigrants are a burden to society and their are logical ways they benefit society.

Also, why do you think you know what all illegal immigrants think? Statements like:
They believe they have carte blanche and are immune to the laws. they believe that they work long hours with low pay gives them immunity to do whatever they want and take from our society. make you sound kind of paranoid.

[Jujubees2]

Also, why do you think you know what all illegal immigrants think? Statements like:
They believe they have carte blanche and are immune to the laws. they believe that they work long hours with low pay gives them immunity to do whatever they want and take from our society. make you sound kind of paranoid.

WF= Illegal immigrant?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Also, why do you think you know what all illegal immigrants think? Statements like:
They believe they have carte blanche and are immune to the laws. they believe that they work long hours with low pay gives them immunity to do whatever they want and take from our society. make you sound kind of paranoid.

Its right before our eyes. Have you seen those marches demanding Amnesty? They are usually held on MayDay. Look at the hundreds of thousands of people marching especially in LA. Most of the people in those crowds are illegals.


Ever see the signs they carry? for example White Man go back to Europe, Pictures of Che Guevera (a racist himself)

[WRESTLINGFAN]

WF= Illegal immigrant?

Does moving from NY to CT make me an immigrant ?

[foodcourtdruide]

Its right before our eyes. Have you seen those marches demanding Amnesty? They are usually held on MayDay. Look at the hundreds of thousands of people marching especially in LA. Most of the people in those crowds are illegals.


Ever see the signs they carry? for example White Man go back to Europe, Pictures of Che Guevera (a racist himself)

This is like saying the Tea Party marchers represent every republican.

[Crispy123]

Also, why do you think you know what all illegal immigrants think? Statements like:They believe they have carte blanche and are immune to the laws. they believe that they work long hours with low pay gives them immunity to do whatever they want and take from our society. make you sound kind of paranoid.

Its right before our eyes. Have you seen those marches demanding Amnesty? They are usually held on MayDay. Look at the hundreds of thousands of people marching especially in LA. Most of the people in those crowds are illegals.


Ever see the signs they carry? for example White Man go back to Europe, Pictures of Che Guevera (a racist himself)

So non-violent protests and wanting to debate about human rights means carte-blanche immunity to laws? Im going to have to rethink my position on MLK.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

So non-violent protests and wanting to debate about human rights means carte-blanche immunity to laws? Im going to have to rethink my position on MLK.

MLK wasn't an illegal alien.


Are there cross burnings and lynchings of brown people? Are Hispanics that are American citizens or legal immigrants denied voting rights? Any separate water fountains or lunch counters?

Why is it that every other wave of immigrants had to come thru in a somewhat orderly fashion and meet strict requirements? The illegals think they have some God given right to be here without ever going thru the procedures

They say they want citizenship and Amnesty but they wave the flag of their home country all the time. They have no allegiance to America, they want to make it in some ways a satellite of their former country. Just because people did it back in the 20th century doesn't make it right.

There were many Italian immigrants that fought for America during WW2 against Italy I think if there was another Mexican-American war, the illegals would fight for Mexico because a lot of them believe that the SW (Aztlan) belongs to Mexico.

These illegals have it made. Everything for them is in Spanish now, they have no desire to learn English in a way it deters them from being successful since a lot of business and commerce is in English.

It may seem that I am singling out the Mexicans, they are a huge majority of the illegals and the largest numbers of illegals who commit crimes. But in the end no one no matter what country they are from should be rewarded with Amnesty.

Illegal isn't a race, its a crime

[Barnaby Jones]

I am against all blanket amnesties. Simpson mazzoli was meant to be a 1 time thing and congress assured that they would crack down on border security and punish employers who hire illegals. As proven mass amnesty causes more illegal immigration.

Wow, once again you're not responding to what people are asking you! I presented a hypothetical and you didn't address it at all! You're so tied up in your rhetoric that you can't even hypothetically set all the catch phrases and buzzwords and opportunities to insult Latin Americans to consider anything else! You can't even for a second imagine wanting these people here, so I'm sure the idea of a more streamlined immigration process that makes it more appealing than sneaking into the country is horrifying to you.

Most of the illegals are hispanic and from Mexico/Central America a huge majority of them are unskilled and would not make enough to have a federal tax liability. Even if they were paid minimum wage they would not pay income taxes.

So what? All of a sudden we're supposed to shut off our country to anyone who is of the lower classes? This is where again you highlight your true feelings here: you just hate these people! You don't want them here legally or illegally! Do you expect immigration reform to deny entrance to the country to people below a certain economic level? Again, just cut to the chase and say it: you don't want these people here at all!

[Barnaby Jones]

These illegals have it made.

You're just full of delusional hatred! In your mind you honestly think illegal immigrants have it easy and are all just here to steal and to harm others! And you're still flogging this ridiculous idea that immigration over America's history has been some kind of strict, controlled process! It was run like a freakin' stockyard, you goon! Stop making shit up!